"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df0b323817ef4150963cc95db7a36cc0\u0022\u003EThursday, 13 February 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea8a38b41cda4167ac3b55cd0ec137b8\u0022\u003EThursday, 13 February 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002210c95c0b8c9142dc8cfb64585a3a5088\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf67cfed469b4c67aa2f00ed3da1b34f\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022625255d93c564e90bcb086954c10d9ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022625255d93c564e90bcb086954c10d9ff\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week it is intended that the House will concentrate on the first readings of bills on the Order Paper. It is also intended that if the debate on the Prime Minister\u2019s statement is not finished today, then following its conclusion next Tuesday the first item of business will be to refer the Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 2) back to the Local Government and Environment Committee or, pending discussions with other parties, the Government Administration Committee. First readings are likely to be done in the order in which they are listed on today\u2019s Order Paper. Wednesday of course is a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224e1a9f97ed8042a5bb7ca2dbf1646100\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e1a9f97ed8042a5bb7ca2dbf1646100\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (NZ National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for that indication. I notice that the Government has reacted very, very quickly to public pressure on the Dog Bill, as it is going to be called. I am wondering whether we might see similar action\u2014that the transport bill that deals with illegal street racing, known as the \u201CBoy Racer Bill\u201D, might also be brought forward on the Order Paper so that that pressure group can be satisfied as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002229b2aadfa94f47fba3036f34bf08c65c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229b2aadfa94f47fba3036f34bf08c65c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E No. I hope, of course, that those boy racers will not be grown up by the time we do get the bill through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022 data-id=\u00227d89ee57f398497eb1edc15f113e2504\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d89ee57f398497eb1edc15f113e2504\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL (NZ National\u2014Rakaia):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House, at the conclusion of the Prime Minister\u2019s debate, to have the Land Transport (Street and Illegal Drag Racing) Amendment Bill\u2014that is the \u201CBoy Racer Bill\u201D\u2014moved to become the second item of business after the Dog Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7436ecf5fe44d67b1a80136d6738f16\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0250d9df1844fe1bf1f6ce0e33d82f4\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I heard general murmuring. Can you identify who said no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224478cfe48bf6466297476875120df651\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please be seated. There was objection. A lot of members heard it. That is the end of the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002298ed0b3184504dc8b473e9556ccda548\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3cb023fe7134888970d39227e176965\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac9ed55b71ea422f9a9a29be0c12ce87\u0022\u003ETreaty of Waitangi\u2014Education Programme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70f488018984f78b10ea91a6fc5953d\u0022\u003E1. Hon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Further to her statement yesterday that a \u201Cnumber of Government agencies presently have a role in dispersing information\u201D about the Treaty, is there a plan for her Government to establish and implement an additional and distinct Treaty education programme, as promised in Labour\u2019s 2002 election policy; if so, what principles of the Treaty will be included in that programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee2c2e5d488744bfbb03d56e8db176f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee2c2e5d488744bfbb03d56e8db176f0\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Prime Minister: Labour\u2019s 2002 election manifesto promised to establish and implement a Treaty of Waitangi education programme to improve the understanding of all New Zealanders. There is no reference to an additional programme, so I do not know what the member is precisely referring to. What the Government is proposing, however, is to build on and enhance information currently available to the public through Government agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c1da32fdd734f5cbcc85e541b27bd33\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: If there is to be no treaty education programme, why did the Government in the delegations tabled on Tuesday appoint Tariana Turia as the Minister directly responsible for educating the public on the treaty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a038176baa04edeb240824123f47759\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: There can be no education without information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de1f34b201794193950771c39eb6aa0f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to have an immediate seating reshuffle, because clearly Margaret Wilson has caught Parekura Horomia\u2019s dialect disease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317f5629bc444bb2832103cc922923f3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is just frivolous and silly, and I ask the member to stand and withdraw and apologise for that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d22ceba3eb0473196c9286ff947485d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c6f3646322413a9fbd37c9dfeb5412\u0022\u003EMahara Okeroa\u003C/span\u003E: What information relating to the Treaty of Waitangi is currently available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c953a79d5d41279e3090890f7bbba3\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The information available includes historical publications relating to the treaty; Waitangi Tribunal reports of which there are now almost 80; M\u0101ori Land Court historical records, where it is appropriate; and commentaries on court decisions relating to the treaty. The Government proposes to make this information more accessible to individuals, schools, businesses, and organisations that are interested in being better informed about the treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd34f7008a54238b0511d72989c25e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Given Professor Matthew Palmer\u2019s call for the Government to articulate clearly what the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi are, when will the Prime Minister show some leadership and articulate those principles, or is that an impossibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220118bc63580d4572a41885b47b52f8f8\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The principles that guide Government action are those that were published in 1989. They are the principles for Crown action on the Treaty of Waitangi, which have been tabled before. The publication that was referred to by the Prime Minister yesterday includes principles that have been enunciated from tribunal reports and the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223550ab1c0f3f45d4a2464f4bfb8fd969\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister point me to the exact page number, or even the chapter, in her recommended reading, Understanding the Treaty, published by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, that says that partnership with iwi is a principle of the treaty; if not, has she not read the book, as I have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef5579a0b9c14e0aa0095d97c6e0e149\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot give the member the precise page number. However, I would be happy to do so if the member would like to attend a seminar, which I am also happy to arrange for those who would like to be better informed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227100ba5a8fa64d6592289480ab8afc51\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister detail how the many experienced M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 treaty educators already doing this work in their communities will be involved in the Government\u2019s programme, or will this programme simply be a Government agency public relations exercise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d5f798e8efc4e789b0aac6a14758858\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is intended that the information that will be available will enable those agencies that are already doing valuable work to enhance the delivery of their programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1ecad0c1b854241940169e0f8782aca\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister consulted the M\u0101ori caucus about the following promise she made at the last election: that is, the M\u0101ori development policy as the second top priority \u201Cto establish and implement a treaty education programme to improve the understanding of all New Zealanders\u201D, or is she so embarrassed about that undertaking that she has now backed down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a51453108b5e4714ab01e9691b1f850b\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike the Leader of the Opposition, we talk constantly with our caucus and we talk with one voice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dafc50247f043aa964f590d2ca67723\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Prime Minister asserting now that which she would not assert last year\u2014that the Waitangi settlements principles are now to be regarded as the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi; or did she discover that in the same way that Columbus discovered America\u2014purely by accident?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c41d754320344d63bf5c8387a9cd738a\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: I really do feel that a seminar should be held. The principles that I referred to in 1989 are those that guide policy making. Principles that guide negotiations for the settlement of specific claims were set out in, I think, 2000, when I revised them, and they are for a different purpose than the others, because we try to make the principles relate to the treaty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EDocument laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2812d0a515e476b95f4c934f5abad36\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker, under Standing Order 362, \u201CQuoting documents\u201D. I am not sure whether the Minister has quoted from the book she has asked us all to read, but I thought that as she and the Prime Minister have referred to it, she should be asked whether she would table the Te Puni K\u014Dkiri book, which is apparently so important. In fact, if it is as important as that, why has every MP not been sent a copy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225fcf58a1c5747c0be5546ee70043eff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister did quote from a book. She may like to make a comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229202082bd8a34548ab84b17006cc1243\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: I did not quote directly from the document, but in the interests of making information available, I will certainly table a document, and I will see whether one can be made available to everyone. I do understand how impoverished you all are at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221786a1632b12451cb1e4a6ce8e06af7f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Irony is never very helpful. I will just say to the member that she said she will table it. That should have been her answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EDocument laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f440e87ed86f4c7f9bdb5b210686fb99\u0022\u003EGenetic Modification\u2014Research Programmes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0d6829d2198432f8a41c08085aab1e0\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: When are the various research programmes recommended by the Royal Commission on Genetic Modification, investigating the risks of horizontal gene transfer, impacts on soil, and social and economic impact of releasing genetically modified organisms, due to be reported to the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbe184d1e31c47b9ba770a57d293a87e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbe184d1e31c47b9ba770a57d293a87e\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is spending over $6 million on research into the impacts of genetic modification. Much of this research is due to be reported back to the Government over the coming months, beginning with some research into economic impacts, due by the end of March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224695347ba217475d9c0c726c043322ff\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What exactly will the Government do if the research into horizontal gene transfer and its risks, due to report in 2005, suggests that it was a bad idea to release genetically modified organisms over the preceding 2 years, and has the Minister discovered a miraculous way to close the door after the horse has bolted, or is she admitting now that research recommended by the royal commission is irrelevant to Government policy on genetic engineering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd6e68541aa43b9bb5195722b14788c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Two of those three questions can be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9a9ed8b2c2a4f50960ae1f63e7278cd\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: The royal commission recommended a wide range of research to be done. It did not say at any stage that we would hold up proceedings until the research was completed. On the concept of horizontal gene transfer, we are well aware that this is a debate that will rage for some time. The findings of this research are to inform the case by case decisions made by the Environmental Risk Management Authority. The decisions that we released yesterday were to do with the framework of how such decisions might be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233101d32a3d347fab3e53ab9ba0a97ae\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister cite any research on genetic modification that shows any difference in the effects of GM technology on the health and safety of M\u0101ori New Zealanders as compared with other New Zealanders; if not, why did she announce yesterday that the Act would be amended to include treaty principle amendments that would give M\u0101ori rights to participate in the process, not accorded to other New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299864fe995494920add7cfe94dc29a10\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: What I announced yesterday was that a M\u0101ori reference group has been established to advise the Government on amendments to the Act that would ensure it reflects the treaty relationship in a meaningful, constructive, and practical way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acef59a853ab4563a226d7aa3d578e91\u0022\u003EMita Ririnui\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government proposed this set of changes to the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act, and why at this time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad00e8b372c04822993e7f154697cdad\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: The proposed changes to the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act that I announced yesterday implement the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Genetic Modification. The royal commission recommended these changes, as part of an overall strategy to proceed with caution while preserving opportunities. The proposed changes give the Environmental Risk Management Authority another tool to make accurate assessments. The changes are designed to be in place by the time the moratorium on the release of genetically modified organisms lifts in October this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa870ff658654a0b99d2f11a360a2c69\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Will this so-called treaty relationship that she asserts on the issue of genetic modification allow for intermarriage between M\u0101ori and European, or stop it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221872168999924ffba08eb6560ecdf973\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: I have no comment to make on that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea98e4214558423c99ca5faa2f1b82b8\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: How important does the Minister consider it is to the New Zealand economy and the advancement of scientific knowledge to amend the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act to complete the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Genetic Modification to ensure that scientific progress is able to proceed cautiously in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cde430d8023450c893bac298abbaf7a\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: Having resourced a royal commission, and having taken on board the extensive work that it does, I can tell the House that this Government considered it to be extremely important that the recommendations of that royal commission were implemented. They are about proceeding, with caution, while preserving the immense opportunities that exist. We saw some of those opportunities displayed on television last night when we were talking about the work at Ruakura. There are significant opportunities, and I welcome United Future\u2019s support for moving forward to implement those recommendations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d214392c6e44cebbff5041cdbbf85ec\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister considers it so important to implement the recommendations of the royal commission, why is she not acting on its recommendation that food animals such as cattle and sheep should not be used to produce pharmaceuticals; and how is that described as proceeding with caution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae92a6b828ce48b78a24877a34f654b2\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, I understand that the recommendation was about the use of bioreactors; it was not about the production of pharmaceuticals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e2e9e08e6d740c28a8ef70ed33caaaa\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What is the difference between using an animal as a bioreactor and using an animal to produce pharmaceuticals\u2014is that not the same thing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f38283b33a6d49a28f53994e3dc9e403\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand it, it is not. A bioreactor is when one may use that animal, then eat the food from it. We are not suggesting that that happens in any case whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223325a5083df845f1a18376d1b69d0b07\u0022\u003EIraq\u2014Government Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222566f1de29e64509a98fc3488c40e1cc\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (NZ National\u2014North Shore)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: In light of her statement that Secretary of State Colin Powell\u2019s presentation \u201Cstrongly suggested a pattern of deception and concealment\u201D of weapons of mass destruction programmes, why will her Government not support a second United Nations resolution designed to enforce Iraq\u2019s disarmament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00226107db8a3ce448f289857e493ffd84cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226107db8a3ce448f289857e493ffd84cb\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Prime Minister: The Government believes that alternative options to secure Iraqi disarmament should be exhausted before the use of force is considered and mandated by the United Nations Security Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288a2b10009174e35a90317454d5b1a4e\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept that it is only the credible threat of imminent force that gets any level of cooperation from Saddam Hussein\u2019s regime, and how much longer can she expect that what she has called a small group of countries\u2014in fact, our traditional allies and much of Western Europe and Eastern Europe\u2014will be able to continue to provide the pressure to disarm Iraq?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d192d38ed5ad49158e12180cfca837fd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: There are two parts to the member\u2019s question. The Labour-led Government has always accepted that an ultimate resort to force is necessary for the United Nations to secure compliance with its resolutions. The member also asks how much longer we would need to wait. Given the fact that the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission team has been in Iraq for barely 3 months and has only just reached the full personnel strength to carry out its job, we believe that it should be given the time to do that job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf026c5bda64c68b009efef9b5cf145\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: What support has the Government received from other political parties for its position on this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022285e1d7102fd4ac4a99d526bd018268e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The Progressive party and the United Future party, I think, are broadly supportive of the Government\u2019s stance. The Green Party and ACT both disagree. The former thinks we are too soft; the ACT party thinks we are too hard\u2014or the other way around, actually\u2014but, like the rest of New Zealand, we are still unclear on what position the National Party will take on this issue today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e36f19562b44e6791ca382a8bfe88a3\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That answer was an invitation for the member to give comments on other parties\u2019 views. The question itself asked about support\u2014and that was reasonable enough. Then the Minister went on to give other parties\u2019 positions, and, in the case of my party, he completely put it the wrong way around. I strongly object to that. My party has taken a principled view on the matter. We think New Zealand should be supporting its traditional allies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2b40bda08e44aaadc38e652a430798\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is perfectly correct. The Minister should not have done that. Does the member want a supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271911597d05b497180664d90e6b288b1\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Prime Minister see the British Labour Cabinet Minister make the statement on television last night that the UK would ignore a veto on a second UN Security Council resolution, and, if so, does the Government support the British position, especially as they claim that is the same view that was taken over Kosovo, for which New Zealand supported the United States and the UK; if not, why does this Government support a veto from, say, France or Russia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c356cdc5f32b48b0b7d3b32ce348a958\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: This Government supports acting multilaterally through the United Nations. That has been this country\u2019s position since 1945. Though the member may not be aware, the United Kingdom and New Zealand are separate countries. We are an independent and sovereign country. We make our own decisions, notwithstanding that that member thinks we should follow other countries, without thinking for ourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252a736686b884f57804a943725f9b368\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with most intelligence analysts that Colin Powell himself was being deceptive, or concealing of the truth, in trying, at the United Nations, to prove a link between the fundamentalist al-Qaeda and the secularist Saddam, as he was doing again yesterday when he described bin Laden and Saddam as being \u201Cin partnership\u201D, when bin Laden had just attacked Saddam as being an infidel, and called for his overthrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084294ac474e47dcbe405225901298bd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I do not accept the member\u2019s first assertion about what analysts may or may not believe. Speaking for this Government, we have yet to see any evidence that links the Government of Saddam Hussein with the events of September 11. The member said, as others in the House may have observed, that Osama bin Laden had described Saddam, I think, as an infidel and said that while the terrorists should support Iraq, he did not support the sort of ignorant Government that existed in Iraq. It suggests to me that the position of bin Laden and Saddam\u2014neither of whom is a person I admire; I abhor both of them\u2014is quite separate in terms of their actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a485a3ab12254bdeadb51b06aee5838c\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Reflecting on that answer, I ask whether the Government has seen or requested any evidence from France, Britain, Germany, or the United States as to the types of military assistance they were lending to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265781c21130e4fa395bf9255b2a6c9ea\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The short answer is no, but some people will have observed inconsistencies in supporting Saddam at one point and not supporting him at another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c46ea4ff824c71b85112b4825dec3f\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of Colin Powell\u2019s comments today that \u201CWe are reaching a moment of truth with respect to the relevance of the United Nations Security Council to impose its will on a nation such as Iraq\u201D; if so, what steps does the New Zealand Government consider are still available to the United Nations Security Council, given the imminence of the threat implied in Mr Powell\u2019s statement, to both lead to the disarming of Iraq and to prevent unilateral military action from being taken against it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085181209feb46b4b54becab11b0b41b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of Colin Powell\u2019s statement today. I do not accept that war is inevitable, although I must say that I think at this stage war is likely. It can be avoided, of course, if Iraq complies with the legal obligations on it. Equally, we would ask that the United States observe the procedures of the Security Council and that other methods that are still available, including pressure on Iraq by the international community, be allowed to run their course before any commitment of force is made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ddf99f820754ff4b5d3ca36a08afacc\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government irrevocably committed to multilateralism, as it has said many times, even though that effectively means that a veto by France, Russia, or China would end up determining New Zealand\u2019s own foreign policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284cf928d9428450897d3d0ebc8d8f719\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I would observe that Resolution 1441 went through the Security Council unanimously, with the support even of Syria. That shows that there is a will in the international community that Iraq should comply with the obligations on it. What we are saying is that time should be allowed for that process to be followed through before force is used in this instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fec46a210664211863e3bca03a0d739\u0022\u003ETertiary Education\u2014Standards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d79be3bf616418cb2553d7643729bd1\u0022\u003EHELEN DUNCAN (NZ Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (Tertiary Education): What is the Government doing to promote excellence, relevance and access in the tertiary education system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2696f475dfd4ffd834fa8c30002f2fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2696f475dfd4ffd834fa8c30002f2fd\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Associate Minister of Education (Tertiary Education)):\u003C/span\u003E Today we are formally launching the Tertiary Education Commission. This new Crown entity brings together the administration of all post-secondary education and training under one organisational roof. In its transition phase the commission has already been involved with such policies as the selection of seven centres of research excellence, the design of the new performance-based research fund, the expansion of industry training, the introduction of the Modern Apprenticeships programme, the introduction of the Gateway programme to schools, and the allocation of regional development grants to polytechs throughout New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234c71d8f5fef4ecfa5f156f25c5e9f60\u0022\u003EHelen Duncan\u003C/span\u003E: What specifically will the commission do to promote excellence, relevance, and access?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c10fd0072746cabf37da703eb4a6fc\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Excellence will be promoted through such policies as an expansion of centres of research excellence, the introduction of a full performance-based research fund, and the introduction of a performance component to tuition funding. In relation to relevance, the commission will work with charters and profiles presented to it by all institutions throughout the country that want public funding. Those charters and profiles will have to show how institutions will advance the education and training of all New Zealanders, and, in particular, areas like industry will be dealt with. In relation to access, institutions will be asked to ensure that all learners have an open choice in relation to what education they do. For example, the promotion of M\u0101ori and Pacific Island students right throughout the university system will be one of the goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213984f59739549b58a09c3919a3ebae5\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: How do his reforms promote excellence, relevance, and access in the tertiary education sector, when the net effect of his system of charters and profiles is that if Steve Maharey does not like it, students do not get to study it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be93b511d9d14a15861da1f1dbeaa820\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I can offer a seminar to the member on this issue, when he has finished with the treaty one, if he would like it. But, in fact, if I take the profiles, for example, they go to the Tertiary Education Commission, not to me. I will not be making choices about what people do or do not study.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57ce8b5ff824bc8b5e29d5753aae5f0\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Government\u2019s raising the fees for NCEA by almost 100 percent promote access to tertiary education, particularly for students from average to low-income families, when a recent report shows that the 2002 fee level already acts as a significant barrier to children or students getting on to the first rung of the ladder of learning and access to tertiary education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283ba99e936b944e0a160c8ef462e0642\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The important part of a standards-based system, as the member himself knows, is to ensure that we have a quality system suitable for this century. It will cost more money to drive that system, and one of the ways of recruiting that money, of course, is through fees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c41f829bb42491b844d550c639d88d7\u0022\u003EGerrard Eckhoff\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government believe that a New Zealand Qualifications Authority - approved qualification in surfing from the Southern Institute of Technology\u2014see Oreti Beach\u2014where students who have demonstrated an aptitude and interest in surfing learn such practical and theoretical skills as surfing techniques and maintenance of surfing equipment, actually assists and promotes excellence and relevance in tertiary education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225078978cbe1446d98132245bb3023bad\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell that the member is not a surfer. One of the things that needs to be done when one is assessing whether a course will be relevant for students in this country is not to jump immediately to conclusions. One of the things that surfing qualifications may well do is introduce people not only to tourism industries, which, in this country, of course, are large, but also to industries all around the world. So maybe the member might like to look at the course, first of all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f861bd5d3fdc4f2aab8e5a66a9ecd48d\u0022\u003EIndigenous Rights\u2014United Nations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa68c3e783d54d8ba1f38bb871e8a344\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade: Was New Zealand represented at the United Nations negotiations towards an international statement of indigenous rights at a Geneva meeting from 2 to 13 December 2002; if so, what was the position that New Zealand took?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022db21e05f011f40b7a79051eb5977f000\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db21e05f011f40b7a79051eb5977f000\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade):\u003C/span\u003E The answer is yes. New Zealand strongly supports the development of a constructive and widely applicable declaration that would allow indigenous people, who in many parts of the world are severely disadvantaged, a basis to assert their rights. However, New Zealand has difficulty with aspects of the current draft that would have to be changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e95fd77ff4a64fdda63268ef21d4139d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not a fact that this minority Government supported the right of indigenous people to self-determination at that conference, as inferred in the Age, a Melbourne newspaper, on 26 December 2002, and if that is the policy being asserted abroad, is it the policy the Government intends to implement back home here in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a39c844cd7489881d12d1447190cb0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking on behalf of a party enjoying 50 percent of the vote and of a minority Government, I point out that from his comments the member is probably not aware that under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights agreed to many years ago by this country and by Governments that he has been a member of, there is a right to self-determination. New Zealand has qualified that right in terms of this document, in terms of not impinging on the integrity and sovereignty of a country, and it shares that position with many like-minded countries at the meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224775b219c2324ceba5ae7335b79688e1\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister further clarify the approach that New Zealand is taking to help achieve agreement with other countries on a declaration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e672544c5bf46bea13766e0f620c214\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The working-party consists of both States and indigenous peoples, and there is a vast gap between the positions of those two groups. New Zealand\u2019s approach has been to work with like-minded countries, and examples of those would be Canada and Norway. We are trying to find wording that would be broadly acceptable both to States and indigenous peoples. The nature of this working-party is that its outcome can only be achieved by consensus. We are helping to find that consensus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331a5a0003724e9d91f973cf446bcc54\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: What status would a declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples have under New Zealand law, and would the Government regard it as a binding document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fac45c07ad404765a59e00139ce82716\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: We are talking about a declaration, and not a convention. That means that it cannot contain legally binding commitments. The instructions we have given to foreign affairs officials there is that the outcome should be consistent with New Zealand laws and the New Zealand constitution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f0cceab64c4d12abee737ac8713c3d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not a fact that the Norwegian situation is for a separate Parliament for its indigenous people, and is it not also a fact that what has been pursued by this Government implies clearly a separateness and a separate sovereignty, and are we to have that back in this country if we are to be consistent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca9538bad773421fb3d316fe153a4c7d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Once again, no, the member is not asserting facts. What Norway wants to do within its own law and constitution is up to Norway. That is certainly not the path that New Zealand is taking, or would take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223564bdbfe2004fc0bb258595949b8b22\u0022\u003ESchool Children\u2014Physical Activities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b662aa38654f46a6de987f2d8bd8ce\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (NZ Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What initiatives have been put in place to encourage greater physical activity of school children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220ca0ac1a28a142e7a20d1069969094ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ca0ac1a28a142e7a20d1069969094ab\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Getting kids off the couch and into physical activity is an important focus for the Ministry of Education and Sport and Recreation New Zealand. Those agencies signed a protocol earlier this month and have identified a number of priorities, including increasing understanding amongst teachers and students of the benefit of physical activity, promoting opportunities to access those activities, establishing environments that are enjoyable, safe, and supportive for young people, engaging parents and communities, and monitoring achievements and engagement in order to inform future development. It is fair to say that in the last 5 years we have not made much progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220987b2dc6a98460187102efa763b25ad\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any particular projects to encourage increased physical activity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022760277c175a2496f9c782994e46284c1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. For example, the school physical activity project comprises a mix of professional development for teachers, physical activity coordinators, and research. Sixteen schools are involved in the project in four clusters, each with a coordinator.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc52c6e7ac74bf59a050730d8f251b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that the just-announced protocol between his ministry and Sport and Recreation New Zealand has, as one of its highest priorities, promoting physical activity that is culturally appropriate and that embraces the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, and noting that no Minister in this House is able to tell us what those principles are, can he explain to the average physical education teacher how he or she might embrace such principles and promote such culturally appropriate physical activity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b01e55851a7a4cfea2917fa2a9df8b4d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Not only could I do that but I could also invite Dallas Seymour to give teachers a good seminar on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a1ea596c9047128ff971964d2c244f\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Noting the item in today\u2019s Dominion Post about the risk of cancer for children who use playgrounds made from arsenic-treated timber, does the Minister consider that there is a problem in New Zealand\u2019s schools; if so, what he is doing to eliminate that danger?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e74e238f7c1b45ad9a56a6f429d05bf6\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I clearly have not got to that point in the Dominion Post yet, as I started the day in Auckland. If it is a serious report I will ask my ministry, and especially the Ministry of Health, for advice on that question. There have been some other relatively wild allegations in the past on the question of pollution in playgrounds, which required kids to eat about a bucket of dirt a day to get poisoned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb1857cd127043d28579644c1e8a3cf9\u0022\u003EMike Ward\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister not think that enabling children to walk and cycle safely to school are sensible options for reversing the predicted epidemics of obesity and type 2 diabetes; will he be briefing the Minister of Transport on the desirability of making safe cycleways and walkways around schools, and of reducing the incidence of major highways around schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c16ba97ce3a4202bb0eef09a55ac7ed\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is yes. Of course the member is right, and it has been explained to him before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224234d6bd427e499db05a7b1ae5a39c1f\u0022\u003ENational Certificate of Educational Achievement\u2014Assessments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8d221a108094cea87a9327680f5cc2b\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT NZ)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What evidence is there to support the claim by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority that the NCEA is designed to ensure \u201Cvalid, consistent, accurate, fair assessment, at the national standard\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002213afc45e0215498f981f93c4129bf9ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213afc45e0215498f981f93c4129bf9ba\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E There is a lot of evidence in the process and the results. For example, in the external assessment the markers are experienced teachers, trained by a chief examiner. A sample of 8 percent of every marker\u2019s work is checked by a panel leader. The panel leader\u2019s work is also checked. If any marker\u2019s work is found to be unsatisfactory he or she is replaced, and the scripts that he or she has marked are redone. The big difference is that we are not afraid of scrutiny of our marking system. I think that one of the key and most obvious points is that under this system people have stayed with standards, and that has meant there has been a broad range of results from subject to subject. Those standards are high, and we are insisting that they are met, unlike the previous School Certificate system in which, if too many people failed, some were bumped up for a pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e285d054cbdf4016bf0adfcc44c5eca5\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his answer with the facts that in maths, for example, there were twice as many excellences for internal assessment, compared with external exams, and half as many failures; and does that not raise serious questions about schools giving inflated internal grades?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4a73ba191048a5835aa9920378dafc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all. I think the member, as she gets better briefed, will understand that what schools do quite regularly is that if students can clearly not reach the standard, the entries are withdrawn. That results in a higher achievement rate percentage for people who finish an internal assessment, compared with an examination. That is not an option once a student has already sat the examination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb881359df3a445383ff26105f423f26\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s completely wrong right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228950a28bebcf4ad0a372623def729d07\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That is not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f735b3fa4ce48e6ac7a0357501c2150\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that the NCEA\u2019s cost to parents has been doubled by the Government to $150, that the taxpayer is now contributing $300 per candidate, that it is costing schools at least $50 per candidate, and that that quantified portion now makes up in excess of $500 per candidate, can the Minister not see that the bureaucracy and costs of the NCEA are out of control and that there is an urgent need for a review to reduce those administration costs in order to get a qualification that is effective without costing that sort of amount?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220196012ce1c34167a5f6a3237542bf10\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: One of the major problems I faced on becoming Minister was a system that had had a lot of work done on it, especially by Wyatt Creech. Dr Lockwood Smith, in fact, started the standards-based approach. It was a system that was logical and coherent. The problem was that when Nick Smith was the Minister of Education, the Budget did not put in one extra cent of resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a8854dec9d4443c9f3a21eed1e3081c\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence is there that overall the marking of external assessment against national standards was accurate under the NCEA last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56ebd2b3cf74e49ba1691efa056dd4c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The New Zealand Qualifications Authority advises me that of the 800 NCEA exam markers, all except two were consistently marking to the national standard. That means that the vast majority, 99.8 percent, of exam marking was satisfactory the first time. The work of the two markers found to be inconsistent was totally redone prior to the scripts being released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c447e49e31f44e287f9433e211a95b7\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: Where is the fairness and consistency between subjects, when only 0.3 percent of students who sat biology achieved excellence compared with 35 percent who sat information management, which is basically filing, and does that not raise serious questions about the integrity of his \u201Canonymous moderators\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d17b16161bc471a811c1141ae1b60d2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all. What it shows is that students understood and met the standards in one area and did not in the other. I do not take the ACT approach of dropping standards in order to get top-up averages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f6d0fb3a94a4adea67d69f8745a4f82\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister was asked a question. He then made up our policy, and talked about it. He has made a mockery of the whole of question time. He tried to say to us that fewer people passed external examinations because the poor students were not allowed to sit them. We all know that cannot be right. This Minister should give logical answers. When he cannot do so, he just makes them up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0aaba911d8d49a4ae86c5193fb6c3be\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member was not strictly correct on one of the points that he made. However, he was correct in asserting that the last sentence of the Minister\u2019s answer was unnecessary in relation to the question concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246b21eeea3bd4385810b213cb7d082b7\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It occurred to me earlier, when I came down to the House, to make this point of order, but I really wish to bring this matter to your attention. Before coming to the Chamber I watched question time on Sky television, and I observed an answer given by the Hon Margaret Wilson. I put it to you, Mr Speaker, that Ministers\u2019 answers such as that may generate levity here because we think Ministers are making fools of themselves, but that the reputation of this House, when people see on the television screen Ministers giving answers like that and Opposition members\u2019 objections being dismissed, becomes seriously damaged. I ask you to raise the issue with the Standing Orders Committee, which you chair, with a view to tightening up on the Standing Orders in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226783b06770ea4efa9d96e321a9cae2bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That has nothing to do with this particular question. The member came down to the House and did not raise the matter then. There is some point in what the member has said, but that is why we have elections. When members make the wrong decisions the people watching that on television can vote differently at subsequent elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a88c9cedeb14f078fe184ca1a6048c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I suggest that that last point of order should have been ruled out for one simple reason. I have noticed an increasing tendency for such points of order to be raised well after the event they refer to. It used to be a very clear ruling in this House that points of order had to be raised at the time the event occurred. If they are raised later, they are no longer relevant. That point of order related to an answer that was given substantially earlier in question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4493c6271104ef9b83aae624e3f8f9f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague\u2019s objection was triggered by his observance of Margaret Wilson\u2019s answer and the answer given by Mr Mallard just now. The relevant point I wish to raise is that if we are to wait for the 2005 election, or whenever the Government throws in the towel, then we will not correct this impediment to the public disclosure of public information in the way that this House conducts question time. I say again, with no reflection on you, that I have never seen in Western democracies those kinds of answers being given in the way that they are acceptable in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b2770a23efe470caeab4538fa84a2e5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As far as I am concerned, a point of order should be raised when the event occurs. Had the member raised the point solely about the particular question that was being asked, that would have been a point of order and in order. However, I think that our question time compares very favourably with most others I have observed in the Western World. In fact, our question time is far more orderly and more information is given than elsewhere. I also think that certainly applies to those people who ask questions, and who take a lot of time to think out good and serious questions and are able to ask them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7186dd491024877a4157c1cbc593d15\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Standing Order 372 states that Ministers\u2019 answers must be concise and confined to the subject of the question. We have had two answers from Mr Mallard, the first to my question about the costs of the NCEA, and the second to a question asked by my ACT colleague in respect of the standards of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement. In both instances all we got from the Minister was a barrage at me about something that occurred in 1999 and something equally irrelevant for the ACT party. That is why this House rightly asked you, as Speaker, to ensure the Minister concerned answers the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c304ed8483da4cf7ac9348337d050b94\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is why, rightly, as I have now judged, thanks to the member, I ruled that the Minister was wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4315472f71545d5aef28b5026160458\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Given Labour\u2019s education policy, which begins: \u201CQuality education is a basic right. It must be available to all children without regard to wealth or income\u201D, how does the Minister justify charging any fees at all for NCEA assessment, or does he not consider assessment to be part of a child\u2019s basic right to a quality education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2b0b948657413ebb493d7710cce129\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Of course a lot of assessment is part of a right. The House will be interested to know that last year the applications for relief as far as fees were concerned were a very small proportion of the amount that this Government had set aside for it. We will do a better job this year of making it clear that that facility is available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226756ce0ee0c5464eaafffe568e630b91\u0022\u003ETeacher Shortages\u2014Secondary Schools\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d78d03a1ae940169e3760bfbf2b3b12\u0022\u003EBERNIE OGILVY (United Future)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with the assessment of Bali Haque, president of the Secondary Principals\u2019 Association of New Zealand, that the shortage of secondary school teachers at the beginning of the 2003 school year constitutes a \u201Ccrisis\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b0e79a96c154552bc25ecabad3f5781\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17688a8d14c4cefa72ca5ffaea46a8c\u0022\u003EBernie Ogilvy\u003C/span\u003E: If the teacher shortage is not a crisis, how else would the Minister describe the situation whereby schools were short of 388 teachers in January, and now, 3 weeks into the school year, there are 199 actual vacancies to be filled, according to this week\u2019s Education Gazette?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a40230eb8f1147f4aac3683707511719\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Schools, of course, are closed in January, at the time of the Education Gazette, therefore I do not regard that as a crisis. I am advised, in fact, that in February this year there are 111 vacancies, 30 fewer than at the same time last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e4d5d0e6f64177af00b46f7a683ed4\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister please detail Government action to address secondary staffing pressures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc44c421aea74df7a43d4918cd125c72\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, given your advice on brevity, I will list only some of those actions. The Government has spent around $37 million over 3 years. It has targeted recruitment and provided funding to encourage New Zealand teachers to return, taken graduates from around the country to Auckland, created teaching scholarships to get more people into training, in particular, in priority subjects, given a lot of retraining for former secondary teachers and provided allowances for that, and provided conversion courses at full pay for primary teachers, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226afc41d9740c40b094661f6336da795c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that in the 1990s the same age bulge hit the primary sector and that National successfully managed teacher supply to ensure that every classroom of children had a teacher, how has he so mismanaged secondary teacher supply that, for 2 years running, thousands of children have arrived at school, in schools all over New Zealand, without a teacher?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267387730df07478da03e7fd5c0ce2a01\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think, as the member is aware, that is not correct. As he is aware, this Government has increased the number of staff in secondary schools, and, in fact, the total vacancies advertised at the peak point were fewer than the extra teachers we put in over and above roll growth. So the ratios were better this year than last.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaffdde3aeba41b3816726d10a36fa40\u0022\u003EBernie Ogilvy\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of that, how will shortages be addressed in the long term, when I note that the average age of the secondary teacher workforce is 49, yet since 1999 the number of secondary trainee enrolments has declined 10.5 percent and the proportion of those who graduated has slid from 76 percent to 66 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c12f0ea33ef44093a9d4fc62cf3bd060\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: There are some interesting statistics, and I am willing to work with the member on them. My advice is that at the end of last year there were 1,765 secondary teachers in training\u2014up 120 from the year before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223077018dd67a41028f4a4017d09eff14\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand\u2014Qantas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270758f076a714df087bbe185a5eab35a\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement in the House on 8 October 2002 regarding a partial sale of Air New Zealand to Qantas, \u201CIf he means whether I have, in an official capacity, received advice that there is such a proposal, the answer is no.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002228a12de912514077b057f9022789c15f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228a12de912514077b057f9022789c15f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f49b6fba000e4d7bb81e79e441a714c6\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister reconcile that answer with the fact that he received, on or about 10 May 2002, Treasury Report No. 2002/648, entitled: Air New Zealand Update on Proposal for Strategic Partner\u2014a report that contained the annexe titled \u201CAir New Zealand - Qantas Proposal for a Strategic Partnership\u201D; and is the reason the proposal was not advanced along the lines of the timetable detailed in the report\u2014which suggested that a decision would be made in late July\u2014due to the fact that the Government had no intention of going about that before the election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fccf32553623437585e1330352bbf81a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not! If the member would care to actually talk to people in Air New Zealand, they might care to tell him that negotiations were not concluded until 24 November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f28d9b33c5448178179ba4c9e483b23\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall his comments to The Australian in January of this year that \u201Ca horror scenario\u201D would be disagreement between competition watchdogs, which could squash the proposed Qantas - Air New Zealand deal; and if he does recall that, will he advise the House whether, in the light of that \u201Chorror scenario\u201D coming to pass, the Government will direct Air New Zealand to withdraw from the proposed arrangement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c7feac891d497aa08060f0bacbc3e3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If that scenario comes to pass, the proposal will fail, because it requires the consent of both regulatory authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce6990c92d1e4350ac6f78881be69e86\u0022\u003EDavid Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How did the proposal evolve, and when was it presented to you as holder of the Crown\u2019s stake in Air New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115b0ba6c00c419fb8b1e690b8fc158b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: As is well known, Air New Zealand and Qantas were in discussions for most of last year, and there was a great deal of speculation surrounding those discussions. The fact they were occurring was scarcely a secret. The papers released by the Government yesterday show that as late as August, when Treasury was invited, there was still \u201Csome uncertainty as to whether proposals will eventuate at all\u201D. Members should note the meaning of that language. As I said before, I understand that the final details were concluded the night before the proposal was submitted to the Government on 25 November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234c4bf754e30497695c8902043c6d8a7\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government was not concerned about this proposal being advanced before the election, why was the proposal to sell part of Air New Zealand to Qantas christened by the Government \u201CProject Vanilla\u201D, and Qantas given a code name of \u201CK\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a839829582784a2da2730cc7d471a62a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government never christened anything \u201CProject Vanilla\u201D\u2014[Interruption] No, that is what Air New Zealand described the project as being. The Government was entirely \u201Ctasteless\u201D in those matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259910516748c4d3da8fa579f39919890\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Was the real reason for denying any knowledge of this deal the fact that the Minister had been advised, back in May, about the upcoming election; and if it was not the upcoming election, given that the papers clearly show that what he told this House and the public of New Zealand was false\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022274bf1f76467454282ecb0877de88b3c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. I will ask the member to restate his question. I will be now listening carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0f655368de41389cbf15494efe8964\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Was the reason that this Minister denied any knowledge of a deal that he had been advised of as far back as May last year, the fact that there was an upcoming election\u2014where he did not want this deal discussed\u2014and if that was not the reason, why should anyone take what he says seriously when the papers he released show that what he said is at variance with what is in the papers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022361cdb7e170545bcb324ca9029438ed8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not. There was no deal in May. If there had been a deal in May\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229037efba78ef46218af14afd15bce750\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Same stupid game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6dee027881b478cac0224b70b8726dd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Same stupid leader, unfortunately. If there had been a deal in May, Air New Zealand would have had to announce it to the New Zealand Stock Exchange. Those are the rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c9efe42e7e41a7b08659afde56f9ad\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Treasury Report dated 10 May 2002, to the Minister of Finance and Treasurer, with an annexe entitled: \u201CAir New Zealand - Qantas Proposal for a Strategic Partnership\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7c3ae2e5cb3406080e4e814c955202a\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know you listened very carefully to my question. The primary question did not discuss a deal, as Michael Cullen alleged; it was a proposal. That is what that Minister denied any knowledge of. That is what the papers show he had been advised of in May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fa89d60ac51449ea1ef50db7224f6ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I point out that the member\u2019s question asked about a deal. I suggest he consult his own notes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7925ed5cc6e4314b0f0e0a9756bc8d9\u0022\u003EGangs\u2014Palmerston North\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022093c3d9c904f41f3a3189d2f1829938f\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What initiatives is he putting in place to deal with the gang situation in Palmerston North?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00228cc0578dbfbb4089a15514bb8c4c9c15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cc0578dbfbb4089a15514bb8c4c9c15\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Police: The police instituted Operation Snag in February 2002, which has maintained a high profile in quickly dealing with gang incidents, and has included 39 arrests of gang members and/or associates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220441a7d9f80444ffb6d4cf8a8927815e\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of gangs, why has the Minister not brought legislation to the House similar to the Terrorism Suppression Act of 2002, which would make it illegal to associate with, be a member of, or finance any gang-like organisation so listed on a similar register, or is everything that the Minister said when Labour was on its anti-gang crusade between 1994 and 1997 nothing more than hot air, as we suspect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293b7f9599b1644d5af2828a5b8d7e5a2\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL:\u003C/span\u003E In the light of the very good work that has been undertaken in Operation Snag, I think that question is very unfortunate. I should also advise that member that in the period they have operated, the police have recovered 15 firearms and issued driving-related offence notices amounting to fines of over $50,000. Property valued at $32,000 has been seized via the court processes, and, of course, some significant sentences of imprisonment have been imposed. I think the police are working very well on this very difficult issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4982ca132914d94ac9bbdc08098a147\u0022\u003EHon Steve Maharey\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise whether the police initiatives have been supported by a range of other agencies resident in the excellent city of Palmerston North?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232bc7ec4b17347d7bd6f74b0d72203dc\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Work and Income, Housing New Zealand, Child, Youth and Family Services, the local council, and numerous community agencies are working very closely together to address the underlying problems within the community. Issues relating to those matters cannot be addressed in isolation. This is a model whole-of-Government approach, and is welcomed by the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228754e611cff2441297b465680d173139\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: In view of the fact that gangs are making many millions of dollars through their control of the vile methamphetamine trade and associated violence, when will he progress legislation to allow the courts greater powers to confiscate the assets of those drug-dealing gangs, or will I have to set up a seminar for the Government to understand that if we take the money off the gangs, we can cut their power and influence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ba7ccb64ca451bacf57a2de4166b73\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had been listening to the answer I gave to the first supplementary question, he would be aware that property has been seized via court processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b62240ad-adda-430d-887a-8f999ef4bbc4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09029b5e1364916be7a71f9985fc1fd\u0022\u003EDr Muriel Newman\u003C/span\u003E: Given the fact that the answer to my parliamentary question for written answer No.16044 revealed that gang apprehensions have increased by over 30 percent since Labour has been in power, why is the Government not giving the problem of gangs the same urgency that it is giving the problem of dogs, or is the answer that dogs cannot vote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7b80cc076ae433494e3f8cdfa73a61a\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe I misheard the member, but I think she said the rate of gang apprehensions had increased by over 30 percent. I would suggest that the police are doing their job very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b236e71a63354e47b1b33c868edd5714\u0022\u003EMarc Alexander\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of the out-of-control gang shootings in Palmerston North, can the Minister advise whether he has done anything to change his own view that, in his words, Hansard, Volume 560, at page 1863, 14 May 1997: \u201CAt the moment it is the gangs who are organised, not the Government.\u201D; if not, is it not time that he did?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e2c3ce41474475a83738db023676fa2\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I should make the point that last weekend, when that particular event occurred, was the anniversary of a gang associate\u2019s death, which brought many gang members back to town. There was considerable tension around that, but those extra people have now left town. The police responded very well to the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277c520da9a7d487786ec4c1f57419c24\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Has it escaped the Minister\u2019s memory that the last time the nation saw such inter-gang warfare was in 1996, and the result of that was an innocent woman being shot while sitting in her car at an intersection in Addington, and is that what it is going to take before this Government outlaws gangs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b90a47a8b06140ad9046909aa62447b0\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: An event that occurred in 1996 that did not result in the banning of gangs in the period of time that that member was part of the Government makes his question somewhat ironic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb64e5f15f714f4f8aabefc364c2244a\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television Service\u2014Chief Executive\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2a09cbb957e42a7b6dc98b11f7fd572\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (NZ National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Is he satisfied that the chief executive recruitment and appointment process followed by the M\u0101ori Television Service Board was appropriate and thorough, as a member of the interview panel for at least one of the short-listed applicants was then appointed to the position by the board; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u002257b4d5276f554ebca878757ae8e8f01d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257b4d5276f554ebca878757ae8e8f01d\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E As I said yesterday, I have been advised by the chief executive of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri that the M\u0101ori Television Service Establishment Board has offered Derek Fox the transitional chief executive position. No contract has been entered into yet. The chief executive of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri will sign the contract once documentation and assurances have been provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022648385040ce34936b6c588ee270df4ca\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of the fact he told the House yesterday that \u201CMr Fox is one of the most conversant in te reo, which is a principle of delivering the service to households in this country\u201D, can he explain the thinking behind appointing John Davy, a non-M\u0101ori - speaking Canadian, whose only command of the language extended to mumbling \u201Ckia ora\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f3a0f24b9f7439898802772336b1844\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Davy was a bad choice, and the nation understands that. Mr Fox is a good choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222af49e73a4824216af7ad4ad72e787a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This question sought an answer from the Minister as to the appropriateness and thoroughness of a process, and, for 2 days in a row, he has made no attempt to answer it. I am saying that in any other jurisdiction, in any other democracy, he would be fired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dcfa76c381348a68e47210694bed040\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That last comment was totally unnecessary and was, of course, nothing to do with a point of order. In his point of order the member asked whether the Minister addressed the question. I adjudged he had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273d20183c9e745c193dc49c62242f251\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My point is this: I am asserting that in other Western democracies a Minister who cannot answer the question, or refuses to answer the question, is fired by his leader, by Parliament, or by pressure from his peers. How come these incompetent Ministers stay in their jobs, doing this day in and day out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228283ff9bcf2e482ea7c81b4e2376b65d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order; that is a political point that is being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3081308cea4326a62834e2f328419b\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The point raised is, in my view, a very good one. The primary question started with the words \u201CIs he satisfied\u201D. It asked for the Minister\u2019s opinion. The same question was asked yesterday. The Minister, yesterday, did not say whether he was satisfied. Today he has done exactly the same. At some point, Mr Speaker, are you going to rule that Ministers addressing a question actually have to answer the question? Addressing the question does not mean just making some reference to the topic that the question alludes to, which is the appointment process. The issue is whether the Minister, who is the person collecting the salary, is satisfied that due process was carried out. We have no indication at all on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead429d4b2af46caa530276658cc7711\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I assure those two previous speakers that I am very clear and satisfied at this stage about the due process. Certainly, if I am unable to live up to the supposed ranting and ravings of other M\u0101ori members in this House, then that is another issue. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a80ff4a3fc014bc081d995ee2131c04a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I adjudge that the Minister addressed the question. He made his point in the first sentence. He should not have continued with the second sentence, but in the first sentence he answered the question, again. So he answered the question, but that does not necessarily mean that members will be satisfied with the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ff8cd1e2a964995b5f15c3d5675af94\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: Who will replace Mr Fox as the chair of the M\u0101ori Television Service Establishment Board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e843e1595e834e00930f2fd57cdc688a\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: This is a matter that I and the Minister of Finance, along with the chair of Te P\u016Btahi Paoho, the M\u0101ori Electoral College, will consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220be5a0c1ee4148e6b41a556a1499c0e1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to question No. 12. [Interruption] No, I am sorry, New Zealand First has used its questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3601749f87f4cde9eb0a095f1b784da\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We are allowed 11 questions on some days and 10 on others. It makes sense to us that we get 11 questions when we have two principal questions, and 10 when we have one principal question. That is your ruling to us privately, behind the scenes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0e1528528b845a6a25a552d5511393e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let me say to the member that that is a novel point\u2014one that I have not heard until this moment. But in view of the fact that I want to start the year by being reasonable, I will allow this day to be one of the \u201C11\u201D days. However, next week it will be 10\u2014twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c0799c035c4175900c1d95d7ce414d\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s expression of confidence yesterday in the ability of the newly appointed chief executive officer to the M\u0101ori Television Service, why did he not agree with his recommendation to accept the offer from CanWest of its TV4 channel, given that the accessibility of that particular channel is far superior to that of the UHF channel provided by this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca28d13b35f4563a6171415d3c3d6de\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: UHF transmission through Broadcast Communications Ltd has proved to be a realiable and commercially attractive option for Prime Television, TAB, and Sky. There is no difference in quality between UHF and VHF. I tell that member that no matter whether UHF or VHF is used, satellite transmission is also necessary, and that is the reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f23323cd67465f87f59f9bd6a1fba4\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain the logic behind spending tens of thousands of dollars on two international recruitment searches, only to appoint the chairman who commissioned the searches in the first place, and can he tell us how much this has cost the New Zealand taxpayer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b67a70f44c3140fa8a1561205352f798\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Sometimes, as in hundreds of appointment processes in the country, it works and at other times it does not. I cannot give that member the cost of it, but I am certainly prepared to forward the figure to her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a3141ba2fd348bb8637983411a9d83b\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the job profile and briefing notes used in the search for the chief executive of the M\u0101ori Television Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e353df36b4da4dddbcbab7987c18454b\u0022\u003EResource Management Act\u2014Renewable Energy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe8c04af9be043fa800d0cbe8e2b4846\u0022\u003EDAVID CUNLIFFE (NZ Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Why has the Government announced changes to the Resource Management Act 1991 to give greater weight to the national benefits of renewable energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5ac447a964c4790960eb8343224ed2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5ac447a964c4790960eb8343224ed2d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Developing renewable energy is the most sustainable way to meet New Zealand\u2019s future energy needs. Perversely, however, it can be more difficult to obtain a resource consent for a renewable energy project than for a fossil fuel burning plant. A wind farm, for example, is likely to occupy more land than a thermal power station. The proposed amendment to the Resource Management Act will add renewable energy to the list of matters to be considered when consent decisions are made. This will give clearer guidance to commissioners on the national importance of renewable energy, which will be balanced by the many other considerations relevant to their decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222affb09a06444dd7989e75353bd2772b\u0022\u003EDavid Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What advice does he have on the potential for developing new sources of renewable energy in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a058774ab4c843ac8cc79b1237ba9963\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: A substantial analysis done for the Ministry of Economic Development last year confirmed that New Zealand has very significant opportunities for renewable energy development. The resources include hydro and wind power, geothermal energy, bioenergy from sources such as wood waste and landfill gas, and solar energy. The analysis indicates that over the next 20 years, almost all new electricity generation is likely to be renewable, at a cost of a little over 6c a unit. This suggests that the Government\u2019s renewable energy target of an extra 30 petajoules a year by 2012, while challenging, is within reach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d0487bec88449396d8f7589c04f1f9\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that the Minister has now described hydro capacity as being part of the renewable energy definition, I ask whether he can give us an undertaking that the resource management changes will assist in the process of consenting Project Aqua on the Waitaki, and can he further give us some assurance that the Government will look at changes to the Conservation Act, to make projects like the Kotuku scheme at Dobson also possible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dae354956d314ce6bb3df87a90146069\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of Project Aqua, I do not think I can give the member the assurance, because I am not at all sure that the Project Aqua consent applications will not be put in ahead of the law being passed. It is my hope that the law will move into the statute book this calendar year, but I rather suspect that Project Aqua may well be jumping the gun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f69d9b21614b1cb5df50b67334d1d5\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That is an extraordinary answer, and I seek the leave of the House to ask one further question of the Minister at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bbef063d12e40dd957fe4cab9b3513f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want to comment about the quality of the answer, but the member is perfectly entitled to ask for leave. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d78627099b6845c3b37d9024a070f432\u0022\u003EHon Ken Shirley\u003C/span\u003E: How will greater weight given to renewable energy under the Resource Management Act assist this country\u2019s looming energy crisis, when much needed new generation proposals, such as Pohokura gas and the Arnold River hydro at Dobson, are delayed and frustrated by the same Resource Management Act, together with Government bureaucracy\u2014and the Minister has just conceded that this will make it harder to get new projects through the Resource Management Act. How on earth is that going to overcome the crisis that is looming?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddcea4b1995142b685d1c028405a8412\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I seem to not have given an adequate explanation. The idea of the legislation change that I announced on Tuesday was to make it easier for renewable projects, which typically have a larger footprint than non-renewable, to get consents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fabe006ee9f460691355beb8771bd98\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Existing ones can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220621f1fab364dfc8f6d0ded09c1bc78\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member said \u201CExisting ones can\u2019t.\u201D For example, Pohokura is consented. For example, the combined cycle gas turbine at Huntly is consented. These are not issues. The member would like them to be issues, but they are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d11bb5bd6944b02847ce433df985e47\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re under appeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255847ed4a4764a8285a41b360edc9506\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Of course they are under appeal. Most significant consents are under appeal. Most appeals are heard in a timely manner, and many appeals are declined or modified slightly. However, Gerry Brownlee\u2019s comment that I gave a remarkable answer means that he has remarkably unclean ears. Let me do it again very straightforwardly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbe5f46e20e44ec2a5a369d8141d6768\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister\u2019s answer is already far too long. That comment was out of order. He will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239669314dd684f84b6a2ea6be3b434c0\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e520a676121a4714b59443f3beb1ed96\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Will the measures the Minister has now taken answer the basic question that New Zealand businesses want assurances on\u2014that is, will there be an uninterrupted supply of electricity to satisfy demand at reasonable prices over the next 2 or 3 years, and on into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cb1ff26a86949cabf82e7952934a88b\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is one of dozens of things the Government is doing to lead us towards exactly that future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba88df682414c5a893a9c864e9d3625\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: In view of the need to develop renewable energy somewhat faster than we thought because of the somewhat speedier depletion of Maui, does the Minister think that this measure, along with the project finance scheme, will be sufficient, or do we need more national-level measures to encourage renewable energy developments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223081685e41c448a08b1ea7c7556df1d6\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is the National Energy Efficiency and Conservation Strategy; there is the work out of the Kyoto Protocol that the member refers to in the projects part thereof; there is the possibility of joint initiatives or other trading systems arising out of the Kyoto Protocol, especially as we approach 2008; and there is the change that this question is about. Together, they start to change the policy direction of this country, somewhat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c194bc94214646399bb99c54ac5db3b6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7 to Minister\u2014Amended Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229264a026f9774fde9c1d8696824efd9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229264a026f9774fde9c1d8696824efd9b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E It has been drawn to my attention that in answering question 7, I inadvertently misled the House when I said the panel leader\u2019s work is also not checked. In fact, it is checked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a0a677a70d64fdda3a432d3fd35e6cb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b62240ad-adda-430d-887a-8f999ef4bbc4\u0022 data-id=\u0022258c12338545483ab2fe959648c78eb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b62240ad-adda-430d-887a-8f999ef4bbc4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022258c12338545483ab2fe959648c78eb9\u0022\u003EDr MURIEL NEWMAN (ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table the information that shows the increase in gang activities since Labour has been in power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b62240ad-adda-430d-887a-8f999ef4bbc4\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203d0e46010fc48ceb2e563ac25bb50f2\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220c6e816014541f2b2131d9a881311c4\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000233\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 12 February.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ea8501c40b46938f227f6ac02c41d6\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First will be monitoring the Government\u2019s progress in asset testing closely, and will be bringing any lack of progress to the attention of the people of New Zealand. New Zealand First has been pushing for a law change for many years in this area, and we will continue to push on that front. The Labour-led Government let the elderly down in its last term by failing to deliver on its promise of removing asset testing for those elderly who need long-stay geriatric hospital care services. The Government has made these promises to get votes, not in one, but two elections, and now cannot afford to stall any longer. Action is required on these issues as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00226c314d35260c488687bba63aee1219d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c314d35260c488687bba63aee1219d8\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E The Prime Minister\u2019s statement to this House last Tuesday clearly demonstrated that this is a Government that has a clear economic and social programme for New Zealand to go into the 21st century. That programme understands that our well-being as a people and as a country is dependent upon fostering those uniquely New Zealand characteristics of fairness when dealing with others, equitable access to and distribution of resources of the country, and, of course, support and encouragement for those people who are prepared to have a go\u2014or, as it is sometimes referred to in policy papers, innovation and risk-taking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EThe statement also showed that this is a Government that does what it promises, and thereby provides people with confidence and security. New Zealanders know where they stand with this Government, and that is why they support it\u2014unlike the National Party, which is yet to overcome its identity crisis and start acting like a political party. However, in fairness, I must note that Mr English did acknowledge that this is a hard-working, productive Government, and that it will be rewarded for its efforts with another term in Government, at least. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI also detected in Mr English\u2019s speech what I understand the psychologists call transference\u2014that is, he tried to make the argument that Labour is a tired, divided caucus searching for direction. When the evidence is clearly stacked against him on this matter, one must ask what he is really talking about. It is his own caucus, of course. I can tell him that wishing it on to the Labour caucus will not make the agonies of splits and divisions in the National caucus go away. It will only prolong them until the inevitable happens and there is a change of leader and the hard work of listening to New Zealanders with an open mind to form a policy begins inside the National Party. As one who lived through a period of divisiveness inside a Labour caucus, I can assure Mr English that, as always, he does not know what he is talking about. He is merely uttering his own fantasies, but that will not make them reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EAlthough it is not the role of the Government to assist the Leader of the Opposition, in one respect I think it is important to do so. Mr English has suddenly become uncertain as to what is meant by citizenship and whether there is one standard of citizenship. I want to assure Mr English that there is only one standard of citizenship. If he is uncertain as to what that means, he should look at the Citizenship Act of 1977. Sections 6, 7, and 8 of that Act clearly set out what it means to be a New Zealand citizen. I shall not matronise the member by reading out the sections. However, it is clear that if a criterion is fulfilled through birth, descent, or grants, one gains New Zealand citizenship. Further, as Butterworth\u2019s New Zealand Law Dictionary 5th Edition states, to be a citizen is to be a full member of a civil community who enjoys certain privileges in that community and is subject to certain obligations. It goes on to state that the status of New Zealand citizenship may be acquired in accordance with the provisions of the Citizenship Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EIn a legal sense, the status of citizenship in reality attracts few rights and obligations, and they relate mainly to participation in the democratic process. As some members of this House are only too aware, to be a member one must be a citizen. However, to vote one needs to be a New Zealand citizen or a permanent resident. Increasingly we find that people can now hold dual citizenship, which raises the question of what exactly is Mr English talking about when he talks of citizenship. If he wants to debate this issue\u2014and we on this side of the House are very happy to engage in such a debate\u2014then he should define his terms and stop shouting meaningless rhetorical slogans. I also remind the member that some of us treat these issues very seriously. We are aware of how important and precious it is to be able to participate in the democratic process and within the public life of this country. Labour members follow in the tradition of those who fought long and hard for the right to vote as individuals, regardless of what property we owned, and regardless of what our gender or race was. We take these issues seriously. Therefore, we are prepared to debate with those who obviously do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI want to take this opportunity also to congratulate the Prime Minister on that section in the statement that affirms the Government\u2019s commitment to make available more information about the Treaty of Waitangi, so that we can have an informed debate. I can only endorse and agree with her statement that it is unfortunate that so many of us know so little about this aspect of our country\u2019s history and how it relates to the nation we are building. As the Prime Minister noted, at a minimum the Treaty of Waitangi enables two peoples to coexist. At the maximum, it provided the basis for the building of a relationship of respect and recognition that can endure down through the generations. I believe that it was in that positive spirit that she said that we must continue to build our unique and special nation that is now the home to the peoples of many lands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI fail to understand why, as a country and as a people, we do not celebrate the truly unique achievement of the Treaty of Waitangi. It is the envy of so many countries that seek to find ways to reconcile racial and cultural difference in ways of peaceful coexistence. As a country we were born not from conquest but through an agreement. While agreement, I know, does not always suit the temperament of those who wish to dominate others, this Government believes that the well-being of us all, as a people, depends on the reconciliation of difference, through the recognition that there are matters that bind us together as one people. That is the real stuff of citizenship. That is where the debate should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI have noted that some ACT members seem to find it amusing, or funny, that the document upon which this country was founded, by agreement\u2014the treaty\u2014should be still alive and well. I know they have trouble with their own corpses remaining dead, but I can assure them that in fact we believe, as a Government, that the treaty is a living document; it is relevant and it is meaningful, and those who wish to give meaning to that document, through their actions, will be those who will create the sort of country in which we can all be proud to live.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022437dbf85a7e44329b8ebf019fd2476db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022437dbf85a7e44329b8ebf019fd2476db\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Normally when the House is nearing the close of a debate on a Prime Minister\u2019s statement, we expect to hear a rallying call from the Opposition. We expect people to be getting excited, getting ready for a vote, and getting tense about a situation. We expect people to be in the House and ready to debate things. I, of course, will not breach conventions by saying who is not in the House, but I will say welcome to John Key; the member for Epsom, Richard Worth; Mr Sowry, and Mr Tisch. They are National Party people who are obviously not involved in whatever meetings are going on at the moment. I wonder what meetings are going on at the moment and what would be the subject of discussion. I could not believe that earlier in the week\u2014I was absent from the House but I saw it on television\u2014and so early in a term as leader, Mr Bill English conceded that he would be in Opposition again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022130f59d7e5f34cedb337494d70a0cf7c\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What did he say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd74b9fb3c5431390db94dea2623502\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he did not say he would be the Leader of the Opposition again. He said that this Government would be a three-term Government. He acknowledged that. Frankly, I feel a bit sad for him. I am not absolutely certain that Bill English really wants the job now. It is very clear from what one reads in the Southland papers, from the clippings over a period of time, that there is a very strong woman in Southland who wants him to be leader. I do not want to matronise him, or say that there is a matriarchal arrangement there, but it is not clear from looking at Bill English\u2019s eyes whether he feels good, whether he feels strong, or whether he feels on top of even the job as Leader of the Opposition. I have never heard a party so openly saying: \u201CWe do not want to compete in the middle ground in New Zealand.\u201D Just think about that statement. What does that mean for a party that was once a great party? What it is saying is that they feel they no longer have relevance to middle New Zealand, and cannot expect to get support. They want to move off to the right. They want to abandon the centre, and probably a bit of the centre-right, to the Labour Party. What does that mean? It means they cannot be in Government. They have given up. Maybe that is a realistic position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIf one looks at the talent on the front bench of the National Party one gets a bit worried. I can understand that. I made the point on the first day of Parliament this year that although two male members on the front bench of the National Party were wearing blue ties, four of them were wearing yellow. I do not want to overanalyse the situation and say there are deep psychological reasons that twice as many people on the front bench of the National Party were wearing yellow ties as were wearing blue ties, but I do get the impression that members opposite are more than a tad worried. Frankly, from a perspective of wanting to be a good Minister in a strong Government, I am getting slightly worried about the effect that that might have on the performance of this Government. A good Government needs a good Opposition. We need to have thorough questioning. We need to have proper debate. We need to have some insight into the activities of the Government, and we need people to be working hard on the other side, and focusing, and that just is not happening, frankly, apart from a few people in United Future who ask some questions, not always well guided but really with intensity and care. In terms of interrogation, I would much rather come to the House than go to my own caucus, because it is only in the caucus, and to an extent in Cabinet, that it appears that the thorough, in-depth discussion occurs with people who have thought about issues. As far as democracy is concerned and as far as strong Government is concerned, I think that that is a real pity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI understand that over the Christmas holidays Mr Brownlee managed to burn off much of the support that he had for the leadership. He did not? I am not sure whether a member opposite said he did not\u2014I do not know what to make of that. It is still my understanding that Mr Brownlee has burnt off much of his support, and what that means is that it is most likely that there will not be a full leadership challenge over the next few weeks. I would not go any further than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIf I were in the National Party, I would look at a couple of things pretty carefully. I would ask: \u201CWho, before Don Brash, had responsibility for policy development? Who was responsible for that shocking piece of work\u2014the National Party manifesto\u2014for the last election?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bda72381c0d443cfa378d22d5886e605\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t \u201CDippy Nick\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022939d01bcc6514cb3be594785b11834b4\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It was Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0bb8163156043baa8c199fcc767ea21\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What about Annabel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaef93d57b4f4a5f8c91099ba9daa05c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, Nick Smith was the person responsible for that policy. Although I am invited to by members here, I think it is probably not the best to go into the reasons that Nick Smith was the Minister in charge of the Budget that approved the money to Donna Awatere Huata and her family foundation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224583ca836d7c46fb87e1ce9314ec9a4d\u0022\u003EHon Ken Shirley\u003C/span\u003E: And Trevor Mallard increased it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211cb3ef8b0ac4ba4875f46cc6fc28712\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: This member certainly did not increase it. The one thing I will say is that this member insisted on thorough evaluation of that programme. At some stage that evaluation will be released, and this member will ask some other questions. Did those members go to the fashion show?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb5885c796c40e498c8421874dcee20\u0022\u003EHon Ken Shirley\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219546011ef2c4e13b644a085eff670b9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That member did not. Richard Prebble did. He was one of the stars of the fashion show\u2014and that sounds like a contradiction in terms. But Donna Awatere Huata paid for an ACT function\u2014a fashion show in this Parliament\u2014and that money has not been repaid. I want to know when will that money be repaid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae57b68b3c64d3db14f057d974041e7\u0022\u003EHon Ken Shirley\u003C/span\u003E: You attended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b0ef6cc55ce4f9c8e251e0bb1c9e68f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I did not attend that fashion show. I think it is outrageous that that sort of money\u2014[Interruption] I think, as I indicated earlier, that it is probably better, because of knowledge I have, that I not go further with this. But I do want to say that, at some stage, people will focus on Nick Smith. They will ask whether it is appropriate to give $800,000-odd to Donna Awatere Huata in order to secure the ACT vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2fdc94d5914d0eabff5b55cfcd0035\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The ministry would have recommended it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f7c25c95f934a64897020def1930d9f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, my understanding is that the ministry first found out about it when it saw the Cabinet minute. There was no report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc63122ced344c2e92e5aca67d55e3e6\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: No report to Nick Smith?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad9d083eeed4fd5b5c8d5124a4c09de\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8694fad21d42bc842fe3910a883fa6\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The ministry must have recommended it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239d8feaef29a4459a59af011b8fc51f7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I make it absolutely clear. It is very important that I, as the Minister of State Services, defend my officials in this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022710a393c47c941e888ecf7f153db984b\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: It was Nick Smith\u2019s idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cea19bd2d24452b8f9c5bd31118311e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am not aware of whose idea it was, but I know that Nick Smith was the Minister of Education when money was taken out of a contestable fund for kids who could not read and was given to ACT in order to shore up their vote. It is just an outrage, and what it shows is something that in any other country would be called corruption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff4a6876c774457ba9e95a81bb701a2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff4a6876c774457ba9e95a81bb701a2c\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ National):\u003C/span\u003E I start by moving an amendment to the motion that is before the House at the moment. I want to add the following words to the last amendment that was moved: \u201Cand that this House opposes the sale of shares in Air New Zealand by the Government to Qantas.\u201D It will be very interesting to see how the Government\u2019s very good friend, the United Future Party, decides to vote on that particular amendment. I predict now that, like every other vote that United Future casts in this House, and despite what it says outside the Chamber, it will fall back into line in the Chamber, roll over, and do exactly what the Government wants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EThe speech from the Prime Minister, which opened this Parliament, lacked vision. There was nothing in it that will help the economy grow. The Prime Minister said that the speech would be boring, and it was\u2014exceeding her own colleagues\u2019 expectations. I have never in my time in Parliament seen so many Labour members of Parliament getting up to give speeches and saying \u201CWell, you know, it was a boring speech, but I\u2019m really happy with it being a boring speech.\u201D That is what they said through gritted teeth. That is what they came to Parliament for. They came to Parliament for boringness, and they came to Parliament through boringness. Labour member after Labour member has stood up here and said that the speech was boring but that they were happy with a boring speech. I say to the Labour members that the nation is not happy with a boring speech. The nation wants some leadership. The nation wants some vision. The nation wants a political party that will go out there with a legislative agenda to make this country grow faster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003ENothing in the Prime Minister\u2019s statement at the beginning of this session showed that Labour members have any understanding of that, at all. Let us look at the legislative agenda. Here we are: Parliament has come back, and the Government has a chance to lay out its plan, its legislative programme, and what has it got? It has the Television New Zealand Bill. Well, we have been promised that for about 4 years. It has the Responsible Gambling Bill. That is the bill whereby the Government will take the pokie money off the hotel trusts that distribute it, and give it to other bodies\u2014such as Lotto and, we understand, local government\u2014to distribute. It is the bill that will, up and down the country, neuter sports clubs that rely on pokie money for equipment, travel assistance, and all sorts of other things. It is the bill that the Minister will not table the amendments for. But there will be more about that; that is the Government\u2019s big bill. But it gets worse. There is the Racing Bill. That will make the country go faster! That will make us grow more! The Resource Management Amendment Bill is another bill that is on the legislative programme. Labour members have been talking about that for about 5 years, and they have not processed it, at all. I predict right now that they will not process that bill during this period. The Government even has the War Pensions Amendment Bill (No 2) on its legislative agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e49da8af3248ce847f947df42b8c50\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: Which war?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250a9b3a37e46434db1e1e33de1c82577\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014which war? Those are the sorts of visionary pieces of legislation that we got from the Prime Minister. What we did not get from the Prime Minister was the real agenda. What she did not refer to in the House, and what she will not talk about at the knowledge wave conference next week, is the agenda that Margaret Wilson so carefully laid out in a much underrated and under-reported speech just a couple of weeks ago. I refer to the agenda that talks about what Labour, with the help of United Future, is going to do to business. This is what Labour and United Future will vote to do to business. They will start by enacting pay equity legislation. That is the piece of legislation, which United Future will vote for, whereby some bureaucrat decides that someone sitting in the local racing office, for example, has worth equal to that of somebody who is working in another particular area of the economy and therefore should have pay equity. It is that sort of a bill; a bureaucratic nightmare, whereby bureaucrats decide the value of the worth of the labour in the marketplace. That is what Labour and United Future are voting for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister did not talk about the holidays legislation, which Labour was not going to enact, at all. Weeks before the election, Labour promised, hand on heart, to the business community that it would not deal with that legislation during the next term, then all the Labour members traipsed into the House and voted for it just before Christmas. Now, Matt Robson is sending out newsletters to everybody, and saying: \u201CThat\u2019s OK. Labour has voted for that. It will deal with it this year. We\u2019re going to get the 4 weeks\u2019 leave.\u201D Labour members will not be saying that at the knowledge wave conference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EMargaret Wilson talked about adding sale-of-business provisions and contracting-out provisions to the Employment Relations Act. Those provisions are the ones that Labour took out of the bill after a barrage of opposition from business, but it will go back and sneak them in this year. Margaret Wilson laid that out in her programme, but the Prime Minister had her mind on loftier things, such as the War Pensions Amendment Bill (No 2). Perhaps Margaret Wilson did not get the list of legislation to the Prime Minister in time for her to include in her speech, or perhaps the Prime Minister does not want to talk about legislation that is bad for business, just as she does not want to talk about treaty issues and education programmes. That is what I suspect. There was one speech from the Prime Minister, one speech to the business audience, and one speech from the rest of Cabinet to another audience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EIt is a bit like the situation with the transport bill, currently before a select committee, that deals with public-private provision for the building of new roads in this country. The Prime Minister said that the Government would pass that legislation this year. The Minister of Transport, Paul Swain, and the Prime Minister are scurrying around, and saying to local government leaders and to business people: \u201CLook, the bill won\u2019t work. We know it won\u2019t work.\u201D I quote the Prime Minister. Last week, in a private meeting, she said: \u201CI\u2019ll be happy if you can convince the select committee to de-Green the bill.\u201D Paul Swain is saying to mayors all over the country, because they are ringing up: \u201CPlease go hard with your submissions, because we have to control the Greens on this.\u201D So they sneak around, bagging the Greens behind their backs, and saying something quite different. That is a bit like Labour members, up and down the country, who are outraged about the lack of roading in their districts. I have read that Labour members all over the country are going to make strong submissions to the Minister for extra roading funds. I can tell members that none of them will be successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0bcaca3cc3466586c8425dd2bb3462\u0022\u003ERod Donald\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019ll be right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293e4a4bd66a149cb9667a70ff18b46f5\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY\u003C/span\u003E: The Greens know that no Labour member will be successful. I can tell the Greens that Labour is out there shafting the Greens on the road transport bill all the way around the country, to the point where yesterday a large group came to see the National Party and said: \u201CAt the select committee, will you please vote with Labour to stymie the Greens.\u201D I tell Labour members to come to us with a proposal, and we will see what happens then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264cccc0ef139478c81fb567d08893bf9\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257db22de3c0741ed8117c87cd8cf8a71\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY\u003C/span\u003E: Annette King sits there and chirps: \u201CWho, who, who?\u201D She should say inside the House the things that she says to the local government leaders in this region. She should say them inside the House where everyone can hear them. She should not say to local government leaders: \u201CI\u2019ll have a meeting with you, but I won\u2019t have Roger Sowry in the room. If he comes into the room, we\u2019re walking out.\u201D Why is that? Because those members do not want to be held to account. Annette King does not want to be held to account. She wants to be able to say to the mayors: \u201CI\u2019m on your side. I agree. Paul and I want the Greens influenced. We want it taken down. Make a strong submission. We\u2019re there.\u201D She wants to say all that stuff in the safety of her own closet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7249140c54c45459532fa458b5f8fb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7249140c54c45459532fa458b5f8fb6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (NZ National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Under Standing Order 343 I wish to make a personal explanation in respect of allegations made by Mr Trevor Mallard, the Minister of Education. Earlier in the afternoon the Minister of Education seriously questioned my integrity in respect of a Government decision in 1999 to fund a literacy recovery programme for disadvantaged children run by the Pipi Foundation. Under the Official Information Act I have sought copies of the briefing papers and Budget documents from that time to refresh my memory of the exact events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is of serious concern to me that Mr Mallard has refused me access to those papers. That has compromised my ability to respond to both his speech in the House today and to the allegations he made prior to Christmas. That sets a very unfortunate precedent about the ability of previous Ministers to answer questions about their own papers. However, I do wish to make the record clear with regard to my involvement in the decisions that led to the Budget decision in 1999 that made provision for the Pipi Foundation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen I was appointed Minister of Education on 1 February 1999, the Budget process was well under way. There were about 50 individual bids involved in the process, including, of course, at that time, a disruptive secondary teacher pay round. Included in the proposals when I became Minister were a number of small grants and bids for non-Government organisation programmes, including the Pipi Foundation, the Pacific Foundation, Alan Duff\u2019s Books in Homes trust, Project K, and E Tipu E Rea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe Budget process for each of those bids was the same. At no time did Donna Awatere Huata, to my best recollection, directly raise with me the subject of funding for the Pipi Foundation. I do recall discussing with her the issue of literacy and the broader campaign to lift standards among disadvantaged M\u0101ori children. At no time did Mrs Awatere Huata threaten me, nor did I have any knowledge of her threatening to withdraw her vote to support the Government on the basis of funding for the Pipi Foundation. My decision to support the Budget bid for the Pipi Foundation, as with the other non-Government trusts, was on the merits of the proposal. I did not meet Mrs Awatere Huata about the Pipi Foundation, nor did I meet any other member of the Pipi Foundation trust. My support was based on a written proposal from the Pipi Foundation, and discussions with officials about that proposal. Yesterday I received a copy of ACT\u2019s privileges complaint to the Speaker. It includes a most inappropriate letter from Mrs Awatere Huata to the then Minister of Finance, Bill Birch\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200a3d734014a470c94526524811bd121\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I caution the member that he is unable to refer to the privileges complaint.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022105040d8e84246a88c1e5a7cc158fd96\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I only refer to it in respect of a copy of the letter coming into my possession, and how that affects the allegations made by Mr Mallard. I want to make plain\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5a84d4459914b3db38e8225558524e0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: It should not be referred to on the floor of the House at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022742f4e12560b45cbb32871ebabacd65f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I never saw the letter sent to Mr Birch at that time, or knew that it existed. I have subsequently spoken to Mr Birch, who well recalls receiving it, and being very angry about the appropriateness of it. I did, in a telephone conversation with ACT deputy leader, Ken Shirley, indicate my enthusiasm for the Pipi Foundation programme. I expressed concern to Mr Shirley about the association of Mrs Awatere Huata with the Pipi Foundation, and that the trust needed to ensure that it was quite independent. I had similar discussions with Ministry of Education officials, and made plain that the Pipi Foundation should not be accorded any lesser accountability because of Mrs Awatere Huata\u2019s status as a member of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI do recall, later in the year at a regular meeting of ministry officials, that the matter of the Pipi Foundation was raised. Concerned was expressed by officials that undue pressure was being applied over a contract issue, with the implied threat that the foundation would use Mrs Awatere Huata\u2019s position to overrule officials on those contractual issues. I assured officials that I would stand by them, and again stated that the Pipi Foundation should be treated no differently from any other organisation. It is noteworthy that officials later in the year, at the change of Government, did not draw to the new Minister\u2019s attention any concern over the propriety of the funding contract with the Pipi Foundation. That certainly would have occurred if they had been concerned that I had acted inappropriately and that the funding was being allocated for political rather than genuine reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also note that this Government has increased the funding for the Pipi Foundation, which is quite inconsistent with the allegations made by Mr Mallard that the previous Government funded the Pipi Foundation for political reasons only. I wish to unequivocally state that my support for the Pipi Foundation\u2019s reading programme was based solely on the merits of the programme. I am appalled at reports that money intended for assisting children\u2019s learning has been hijacked for other purposes, such as fashion shows, private telephone accounts, unrelated business expenses, and personal operations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022146de24140ee4c258a8f6aa87ead79ac\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is getting off the personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f7a7974aa164dbe97b631ac082ac564\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Those reports raised very serious questions about the standard in reporting of non-Government organisations, thus my strong support for the inquiry of the Auditor-General and the Serious Fraud Office. If Mrs Awatere Huata benefited financially in any way from that funding, then she brings her party and this House into disrepute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236ee15572ddb4b62a1c72e65c62dc073\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I caution the member. It is a personal explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4458da5356242dfad320907383abadb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4458da5356242dfad320907383abadb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I have to tell Roger Sowry, who made the last speech in this debate, that absolutely no one mentions his name at any meeting that I have ever been at. In fact, if it was mentioned, people are likely to say \u201CRoger who?\u201D. I disabuse him of the fact that we all sit around worrying about little Roger. We do not. No one mentions him. He is a nonentity. However, it is ironic to listen to Roger Sowry\u2019s amendment to the amendment moved by his leader. The h-word immediately came to mind, because the amendment that he moved was that we oppose the sale of Air New Zealand shares to Qantas. Was the National Party not the party that wanted to sell the whole airline to any foreign buyer who would buy it? I thought that was what it wanted. In fact, I am absolutely certain. There is a little bit of the old h-word that has crept into that amendment. Do members not feel sorry for Bill English? He could not even get his amendment right. He had to send in the water boy to move another part to the amendment to the amendment. I do feel sorry for poor old Bill English\u2014the bewildered look on his face, the frightened eyes, the shuffling of the feet. It really brings out the mother hen in me. Day in, day out, he is under attack\u2014and that is just by members of his own party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen we heard from the icon of the National Party, Dame Thea Muldoon. She said: \u201CWe have to make the best of what we\u2019ve got. It\u2019s not as if there\u2019s anyone else there.\u201D Well, the one thing I do know is that Dame Thea knows a pig\u2019s ear when she sees one. Bill English is increasingly becoming a tragic figure. Perhaps he is Hamlet\u2014\u201CTo be or not to be.\u201D In Bill\u2019s case, it is a matter of \u201CTo be for or to be against, that is the question.\u201D He wonders every day whether he should stand the slings and arrows of Gerry Brownlee or take arms against him. He is still making up his mind. Or perhaps he is Richard III: \u201CMy kingdom for a horse.\u201D, he says, \u201COr anything to get me out of where I am at.\u201D Maybe he is King Lear, betrayed by those who claim to love him. What about Othello? People can make their own list in regard to the tragic figure that Bill English has become. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EHe has become tragic because he gets so many things wrong. As the New Zealand Herald stated this week, he takes one step forward and two steps back. He must feel like going down to the bottom of the garden and eating worms. He has been told that what he has to have is profile, profile, profile. He has been told to get out there and get himself noticed. The trouble is that nobody recognises him. We went to the Tuatapere sports day, as members heard yesterday in an excellent speech from Lianne Dalziel. Bill arrived in his sunhat, which was missing only the corks hanging around the bottom of it. The problem with the sunhat was that no one could recognise him. In fact, nobody knew he was at his own sports day in Tuatapere. I say to him that if he wants to be recognised, he should get rid of that sunhat and get himself one of those loyal New Zealand ones with a brim on the front. Maybe then he might stand out and be identified as being the leader of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EHe decided at Christmas to have a go at a bit of publicity. He thought: \u201CI was an old health Minister, so maybe I could get the spurs on again\u2014\u201C\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eb4a5ec4f9046759fabf4cb7874ba5a\u0022\u003EHon Ken Shirley\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ad58523d61943a08ed78330e8b62c49\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he thought: \u201CI\u2019ll put my spurs on, get back into the saddle, and put out a statement on health.\u201D The only trouble was, he got it wrong, yet again. He put out a statement saying that the new primary health organisations were going to provide 9-minute consultations. This is a man who prides himself on being a very successful Minister of Health. No one can remember what he did, but he thinks he was very successful. He also prides himself on the fact that he has a wonderful relationship with the Pacific Island community. So in his endeavour to make a name for himself at Christmas he tried to use the Pacific people to make a splash. He said that the new primary health organisation in south Auckland, a Pacific primary health organisation, was to provide 9-minute consultations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWell, first, it backfired, because he got it wrong. Second, credible people like Dr Debbie Ryan and Dr Siro Fuatai said he had got it wrong. Third, the facts proved he had got it wrong. Dr Fuatai, who is the chair of one of the first primary health organisations in New Zealand, said this about the new primary health organisation: that they had now started to make the sort of real difference to the lives in south Auckland that he would have liked to make years ago. If Bill English was such a friend of the Pacific people, why did he not make an effort to reduce the cost of primary health-care for thousands of New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EDr Fuatai said: \u201CWe now have access to extra resources in terms of staff and time, and this has given us the stability to do the work for our people.\u201D We are doing it, not talking about it, as Bill English is. Dr Fuatai went on to say: \u201CThe whole nature of patients\u2019 consultation has changed. We spend longer with patients. People are now coming to us, not because they are necessarily sick, but to talk about how to prevent themselves becoming sick.\u201D He said that the three practices were now seeing 20 percent more patients a day since they became a primary health organisation in July 2002. He said that one of the reasons people were coming was that consultation was free for children, and $5 or nothing for people on low incomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EHe said that reducing the price had helped people. We know that the cost of primary health-care is a barrier to people going to their local health professional, and we have decided that we will make a major effort in the next 3 years to reduce the cost of primary health-care to New Zealanders. If John Key were to arrive in his local hospital to have his hip replaced, he would have it done for free, regardless of the fact that he is a millionaire. He would have his hip replacement done free in a public hospital. But if he were to go to his local doctor because he needed some health care, he would pay top dollar, but so would every New Zealander who earns over $19,980. I do not know whether Mr Key could live on $19,980 a year, but that is the level of the community services card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAnd what has the National Party said? It has said that it would scrap our primary health-care strategy and keep the community services card. They will keep that card and keep access to doctors and nurses in New Zealand for the very, very poor; whereas, we say that every New Zealander should have access to affordable primary health-care to ensure that they keep themselves as well as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis is a major initiative by this Government. We have put in the money to provide for it. There has been no commitment by the National Party. In its health policy for the last election, primary health-care was not even mentioned. It did not get even a line. It could not care a hoot about primary health-care. We do, and the money has gone into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI want to share with this House this graph, with its very good colours. I say to Mr Key to look at the blue line. That represents the money the National Party put into health. The red part of the graph shows what Labour has put into health over the last 3 years. One dollar in every $5 now goes into health care in New Zealand. It has never been higher. In 1998-99, health as a percentage of Government expenditure was 18.3 percent. Today it is 21 percent. There has been no commitment by any Opposition party to put that amount of money into health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAs I said, we now have 21 percent of our total expenditure going to health. It was $6.5 billion in 1998-99, it is $8.8 billion this year, and going up to $9.3 billion next year. That is a real commitment to health. Over this next 3 years we will see real improvements in primary health-care\u2014the access to it, the affordability of it for those who will be able and want to get primary health-care. We will see real action continuing on waiting lists in New Zealand. We will see real money being spent on mental health services. Since about 1996 the expenditure on mental health has almost doubled. We are in good shape in New Zealand by any international standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002227adeafa40fa4c8b9f6575b6cd28c815\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227adeafa40fa4c8b9f6575b6cd28c815\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Immediately after the last election the Wairarapa Times-Age advised its readers that the election result was a humiliating rout of historic proportions for National; that it was a massacre. The Dominion Post stated that it was a disaster and dismal. The New Zealand Herald reported that the National Party was woefully unprepared and gutless. Wayne Mapp said that it was a drubbing. The National Business Review, not particularly known as the vanguard of the revolution, stated: \u201CThe question is not why the vote splintered and people refused to vote National. No, the question is why 21 percent of the voters decided to vote National at all.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut what did the members of the National Party say about the election? Annabel Young said: \u0060\u0060With an environment that looks like something out of Ally McBeal but without the good looks, no wonder they came up with a crappy strategy. The whole committee\u201D\u2014and she is referring to the National Party strategy committee\u2014\u201Cneeds to be chopped in the wake of Saturday, of course, but Murray McCully has now lost three elections in a row. Surely he needs to find more important things to be concentrating on.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBelinda Vernon said, in much more measured tones: \u201CThe result is a hangover from National\u2019s last term in Parliament with New Zealand First as a coalition partner. Other factors include the time it\u2019s taken to settle into Opposition, a recent period of change with new leader, Bill English, and new president, Michelle Boag, and the campaign spotlighting Mr English instead of including his experienced caucus.\u2019\u2019, which, by the way, implies an inexperienced leader. So on it went. Wayne Mapp said: \u201CI believe that the principal reason our vote collapsed was that we failed to have a coherent set of policies for middle New Zealand.\u201D Maurice Williamson said that National had suffered a cataclysmic defeat. He said: \u201CIt\u2019s not just a drop or a big drop, it is a collapse, and the person who is at the top of an organisation\u201D\u2014and here he was referring to Michelle Boag\u2014\u201Chas to accept that responsibility.\u201D Richard Worth said: \u201CI don\u2019t see it as a burden representing Epsom, though it will definitely be a challenge to lift National\u2019s popularity.\u2019\u2019 An unnamed senior National MP said: \u201CWe suffered from an acute relevance deficit.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThat was the election of last July. What we now have in Parliament is a National Party that simply cannot run itself. Immediately after the election Bill English asked out loud whether the party should receive votes when it had not demonstrated an ability to run itself. He said: \u201CWhen we can show we can run ourselves, people are much more likely to believe we can run the country. At this last election they didn\u2019t think we could run ourselves. I am the leader, so I am responsible.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EWhat has happened in the 6 months since that historic defeat? There has been no defeat like it in the history of the New Zealand political system involving a centre-right party. The party called the National Party still cannot run itself and the symptoms are both public and obvious, and subtle and less obvious. The public ones are the public divisions\u2014the Brownlee articles, the Williamson utterances, the demoting of Georgina te Heuheu, and so on. The private ones are more interesting. The media statements have no coherence to them. There is clearly no checking mechanism before they go out. National Party members are riding freely over one another\u2019s policies. Wayne Mapp has something to say about almost anything, and certainly Mr Brownlee has, but so have Don Brash and Maurice Williamson. They have more than one public position on any matter. They have many positions on most matters. Even on basic stuff, like how we manage the treaty partnership, we have the leader of the National Party doing a really serious flip-flop between\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fe14d0ed7d44a42ae428084acb6e96a\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Every day!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022941e95f1c9844a3ca197682037bc6529\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, every day, but certainly if we take a look at it over the months we can see a leader who has moved from a position of basically saying: \u201CI\u2019ve studied the demography of our country. I\u2019ve seen the future and it\u2019s brown. We need to be there.\u201D That is the position that the National Party leader has ordinarily taken. That is the position whereby he has stood up and been counted as someone who is looking forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EOver the summer we then had the extraordinary intellectual dishonesty of remarkable bits of research being done\u2014some of it by Mr English himself no doubt, but others by Simon Upton, and so on. There has been some quite interesting research and studying of the nature of New Zealand in 1840 and how it changed through 1860, and so on. But we then have, in the speeches coming out, the intellectual dishonesty of just drawing a bunch of one-liners and drawing a bunch of conclusions that have no intellectual rigour to them at all. That is really worrying. The leader of the National Party is an important figure in New Zealand politics and for that to happen, after all that research, leads me to the view that so long as he has done the research he can convince himself that he does not really worry what he says. In other words, the research has been done and the conclusions are known by the Leader of the Opposition to be junk, but he will parade them, anyway. That is really concerning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EEven today, the deputy leader of the National Party coming up with an amendment to the amendment to the amendment is an example, yet again, of a National Party that has nowhere to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299be1128cff84b6984a4e7cbbe9a451f\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Well, most of them have gone somewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e85778497d4e21a66f509263822747\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Most of them have gone somewhere. The leader spends most weekends, one imagines, rifling through filing cabinets looking for a philosophy, because there is not one. National members have taken a remarkable position over the summer. They have said the way back to being a popular, large political party is to become an extreme right-wing party. That is a remarkable strategy. It is one that will not work, they know it will not work, but they have done it by mistake because they had to do something. They do not know how to run themselves. They have not worked out what their philosophy is. It is very serious for the National Party. It is very serious for Bill English. It is very serious back in his electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI know the electorate quite well; we campaigned hard in it. We went to Gore, we went to the largest town, Balclutha, and we went to lots of little towns, like Winton, Clinton, Hinton, and so on. We went to Ohai and Nightcaps\u2014and David Benson-Pope advises that he won the occasional pool game. But if members look at the results in the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s electorate, they would have expected Labour to win Ohai and the Kaitangata booths, and to be cleaned up everywhere else. Not so. Labour won Milton, Riverton, and the largest town in the electorate, Balclutha. Labour won it on the electorate vote! Lesley Soper beat Bill English. That is not all. After the election, Bill English closed his electorate office in Balclutha. The Leader of the Opposition closed his electorate office in the main town of his electorate. I do not know why he did it, but it is remarkable. Then this year, in January, the Leader of the Opposition started running advertisements in his own newspaper, advertising for National Party members in that blue-ribbon seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EHere is the problem the National Party has. Its next election is not about running the country. Its next election is about coming home first amongst the Opposition parties. National needs to beat ACT and New Zealand First\u2014and it needs to beat them well\u2014otherwise it is finished. National Party members know that, so they have the problem of pretending to speak to the country. Actually, they are interested in getting more than their fair share\u2014about 50 seats. That is about the sum of it. That is a desperate position to be in. The problem is, they are not doing too well at it. In the latest poll, Bill English is no longer the second-highest scoring, preferred Prime Minister. Of course Helen Clark is first, by a country mile. But Bill English is not second\u2014Winston Peters is. So the slide continues. It seems to me that it is not yet clear where it will stop, and it will not be resolved by a change of leadership. Simon Power is too young, Don Brash is too old, Roger Sowry is called Napoleon and nobody likes him, and Gerry Brownlee is a bit like a large cattle beast amongst the crockery, so there is not really any option for the National Party but to stick with Bill English, at least in the meantime. That is a remarkable position to be in, and I am glad I am not a member of that party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9b1ebde169d4d1daaa63e5c58a55374\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9b1ebde169d4d1daaa63e5c58a55374\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E We expect, in the debate following the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, that Ministers, particularly senior Ministers, will talk about a programme and a strategy. That is the purpose of the Prime Minister\u2019s statement at the commencement of each year. What did we hear from the Minister of Energy, who has just left the Chamber? Not a whisper, not a murmur. He did not talk about the energy crisis that is looming in this country. We know that the Maui field is to be exhausted earlier than we previously thought. How many members realise what happened to the spot electricity price just a few weeks back? It went from the normal 6c per kilowatt hour to $93 per kilowatt hour. Whole industries in New Zealand, like Kinleith and Kawerau, the basis of our economy, were forced to close down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EI predict here and now that by mid-winter this year New Zealand will be deep in an energy crisis. That Minister, who had the opportunity at the start of this Parliament to talk about energy, which he is responsible for, did not mention one word about the looming crisis. Why? Because he is doing absolutely nothing. He is sitting on his hands, dragging his feet, and refusing to address the key issues confronting the energy sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EIt is well known that the ACT party had serious misgivings about National\u2019s electricity reforms. We believe that Max Bradford and the National Party got it wrong. We strongly believe in the market, but the model and the path that they went down was not the optimal one. But this Government has compounded those problems. This Government has nationalised the industry, and we now have monopolies with State-owned enterprises on a regional basis. And those State-owned \u201Cgentailers\u201D\u2014because they control the generation and the retail, they are called \u201Cgentailers\u201D\u2014are price gouging. They are playing the market and taking opportunities on the crisis that we have, to extort our major key industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EMinister Pete Hodgkin is doing nothing about that. He is happy to see State monopolies, because that is his philosophy. Labour members love State monopolies, and all those profits are now pouring into their coffers so they can throw them away on all sorts of spurious Government spending. They should be addressing the basic infrastructure of energy that is the key to the success of this country, and they are failing to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EI turn to the issue of Iraq because, again, ACT is the only party that is clearly saying we should be standing beside our traditional allies, Australia, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Increasingly, the nations of Europe are coming in behind that coalition of the willing\u2014Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Italy. There are seven others in total, apart from the UK. The only key exceptions are France and Germany. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003ELet us look at the German situation. Germany, under Gerhard Schroeder is in chaos. It is heading for economic ruin in a very unstable coalition Government with the Greens. Gerhard Schroeder campaigned in the last election late last year that even if the UN passed another resolution, Germany would not support armed intervention in Iraq. Why? He was competing with the Greens. He was trying to outdo the Greens. Who is the Foreign Minister of Germany? It is Fischer, who is a Green. So it is pretty clear where they are coming from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EWhile on the one hand the Greens of the world say that they champion the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons to stop the horizontal and vertical spread of nuclear weapons, together with all weapons of mass destruction, when it comes to doing something about it and taking action against rogue States, those Greens are not prepared to do a thing\u2014other than to go off and be human shields. We have the co-leader of the Greens, Rod Donald, wearing his badge here in Parliament, but he is not prepared to stand up and enforce the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. They love the treaty, but when it is flouted by rogue States like North Korea and Iraq, they will do nothing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b9966d09aba4c03af976096c47699b3\u0022\u003EROD DONALD (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I thank Ken Shirley for the free advertisement, and I have some more good news for the House, as well. Let us face it; it is time we had some on a day when petrol prices continue to climb because of bully-boy Bush\u2019s threatening behaviour, dairy farmers are losing another 10c a kilo on top of the $1.60 drop from last year\u2019s high, with all the consequences that will have for the economy, and manufacturers are starting to shed jobs\u201450 alone at G L Bowron and Co. Ltd in Christchurch today\u2014because of our overvalued dollar. The good news is that the quickest way to restore New Zealand\u2019s dollar to a comfortable level, would be for the Government to adopt the Green Party\u2019s economic policies. Members do not have to believe me; that is what Minister of Finance, Dr Michael Cullen said yesterday at the Finance and Expenditure Committee meeting. He was not serious, but I took his comment as a compliment. That is because the Green Party\u2019s economic strategy is focused on sustainability, self-reliance, and social justice. We are not interested in pursuing the policies of the current or previous Governments that have caused growing income inequality, the squandering of natural resources, and subservience to corporate globalisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EDr Cullen in his speech yesterday dismissed the Greens as a \u201Cloony tunes\u201D party, but whose policies are really the loony ones? What sane, sensible person would throw more than a billion dollars at the overseas sharemarket at a time of major volatility? We warned the Government, but it went ahead anyway, losing over $200 million of public servants\u2019 retirement savings in the process, and severely reducing the income of the Government Superannuation Fund. Apparently, the Government still wants to do the same thing with the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. If Dr Cullen had put his first $600 million on the Dow-Jones index, and the FTSE 100 index in July 2001, it would now be worth $326 million. No one can convince me that that is a smart way to save for retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EWhat about the Singapore trade agreement? That is something else the Government trumpeted. New Zealand\u2019s trade deficit with Singapore jumped from $24 million before the deal was signed, to $220 million in the first year. Last year it was a further $207 million. If members think that is bad, they should try China. Thanks to successive Governments reducing tariffs on clothing, footwear, and textiles, not only have thousands of jobs been destroyed in New Zealand, but our trade deficit with China has ballooned to over $1.16 billion. If we put it all together, we have a sorry saga of trade deficits for 7 out of the last 8 years. The $2.3 billion downturn in the last 2 years will be small beer compared with the impact of the high Kiwi dollar when it really kicks in. The only saving grace is that the sell-off of New Zealand\u2019s land and businesses to foreigners may slow down, but a slice of heaven in Aotearoa is still cheap\u2014still very cheap. What is more, the Government\u2019s determination to flog us off overseas, highlighted by this week\u2019s so-called investment regatta, is all designed to encourage even more wealthy foreigners to turn our productive farms, our unique coastlines, and our offshore islands into safe, South Pacific hideaways. Well, we have an answer to that problem. We should ban outright the sale of New Zealand land to foreign-based individuals and corporations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EI will be putting a bill in the members\u2019 ballot to do exactly that, but I fear that I may be too late. One of the demands the Government has received under the current GATT round at the World Trade Organization is for the Overseas Investment Commission to be scrapped. In other words, the few protections that we have are under threat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EThat is not all that is under threat. The General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) is all about letting corporate capitalists get their hands on public services. The Government claims that it is not about to trade away the protections currently in place, but how can we believe it when it has asked other countries to do exactly what it says it will not do itself? And how will we know what the Government is planning to offer at the World Trade Organization when it will not make it public, let alone give Parliament the opportunity to debate it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EYesterday the Minster of Finance was asked to tackle the problem of child poverty. Despite 30 percent of New Zealand\u2019s children living below the poverty line, despite the Government running substantial surpluses, and despite Dr Cullen planning to put aside $2 billion a year for our retirement, he refused to respond positively to the calls from organisations such as the National Council of Women of New Zealand, Presbyterian Support Services, the Downtown Community Ministry (Wellington), Barnardos New Zealand, Child Poverty Action Group, and the United Nations Children\u2019s Fund to invest in our young people. When I asked those groups whether they thought an operating surplus was real when there is still child poverty in New Zealand, they all said \u201CNo\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9ac13c7ce5e4720a13fcee7ccf53fa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9ac13c7ce5e4720a13fcee7ccf53fa5\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E In the debate over the last couple of days in the House I have heard my colleagues such as Pete Hodgson refer to the fact that in Bill English\u2019s electorate, Lesley Soper, his Labour opponent, won every booth but one in the last election, and that Bill English straight after the election closed off his electorate office in Balclutha. That is extraordinary\u2014talk about a bad loser. He packed up his electorate office, and then started advertising for some help. It was help needed desperately by Bill English in his own electorate, for people to join the National Party. I have heard my colleagues Lianne Dalziel and Annette King refer to their \u201Cday of fun\u201D in Tuatapere\u2014if that is not an oxymoron. They had a fantastic day at the annual gala in Tuatapere, and they had the pleasure of introducing the current Leader of the National Party, Bill English, to his constituents, none of whom recognised him. That is a pretty sad indictment on somebody who has represented that proud town of Tuatapere for many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDespite all those instances, and despite the fact that in his very first opportunity to make a mark in Parliament for this coming year, Bill English, as described in his own paper, the Southland Times, was \u201Cbattling not Helen Clark, but semantics\u201D. It stated: \u201CSemantics were no match for Mr English. Just to be on the safe side, he shot himself in the foot, and then put the foot in his mouth.\u201D That summed it up extraordinarily well. That is Bill English\u2019s local newspaper. That is what they said about their local MP. \u201CJust to be on the safe side, he shot himself in the foot, and then put the foot in his mouth.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDespite all those very clear signs of a man in tragic trouble, I agree with Trevor Mallard. I think that the likelihood of Gerry Brownlee becoming the leader in the next little while has considerably diminished, and I will tell members why. The plan was very clearly exposed in the Press, our local newspaper in Christchurch, on Monday, under the headline: \u201CWilliamson backs Brownlee\u201D. If that is not the kiss of death for Gerry Brownlee in his future leadership aspirations, I do not know what is. But I do not think that Maurice Williamson has ever done anything without thinking about it and giving it a lot of consideration. It is my view that he has now gone back on Bill English\u2019s side, because he knows that Gerry Brownlee cannot do it and he knows that the path is now opening up for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022893bac63d6b7442ea53858ca8878d469\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think it\u2019s him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc30b90d52ad41e2af804b769882a2de\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think it will be him, because the others are clearly not up to it. But the time will come when hopefully Maurice Williamson will be rewarded for the contribution he has made to the great once-proud National Party, particularly over recent times. He was the only member of Parliament prepared to stand up for what National Party members throughout the country, both of them, were saying about the party president, and for that he was treated in a totally unacceptable manner. He was put way down the back of the Chamber. We cannot even see Mr Williamson from where we sit over here. He is so far down the back of the Chamber. All the contribution he made in the past to the National Party, including being a Cabinet Minister of very high regard, was just ignored. No wonder Bill English is in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI would like to say a couple of things about my own portfolios, in the minutes I have left. I begin by thanking Helen Clark for giving me the honour of taking over the role of the senior citizens portfolio from the previous Minister, Lianne Dalziel. Not only is it an honour to have the advocacy Minister portfolio on behalf of all senior citizens in New Zealand, but also it is a great privilege and a challenge to follow in the footsteps of Lianne Dalziel. I want to give her well-deserved praise for her fantastic advocacy on behalf of all senior citizens in New Zealand. I hope that Lianne Dalziel is in a position to be able to hear this praise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWhat I hear from Grey Power members throughout the country is that until the day Lianne Dalziel was elected and appointed as Minister for Senior Citizens, they did not know they had one. For the previous 9 years they had had nothing at all from the National Government. They did not even know who the previous Minister was. I happened to know, but they did not even know who he was. Lianne Dalziel has set very high standards in the last 3 years. She has set high standards in an area that clearly this Government sees as an advocacy ministry. It is based on respect for older people. It is based on valuing older people. It is based on ensuring that the issues of special concern to all our senior citizens are raised directly around the Cabinet table, and listened to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI will be very pleased to carry on the excellent work that Lianne Dalziel has done on their behalf. I certainly hope I enjoy it as much as she has over the last 3 years. I know that she was not enthusiastic about moving away from that portfolio; one does get attached to advocacy work in that way. I pay justified tribute to the work she has done, and I hope that in 3 years\u2019 time\u2014or 6 years\u2019 time, because Bill English certainly has indicated that we will have another term\u2014I will be able to hand the portfolio on to another Minister who will be as enthusiastic about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI turn to one of my other portfolio areas, accident compensation. On 1 February we enshrined the Code of ACC Claimants\u2019 Rights in our legislation, with its release. That was a very satisfying day for me. The Code of ACC Claimants\u2019 Rights is as important in the spirit of its delivery as it is in the legislation itself. It is about accident compensation being fair, and, clearly, that is anathema to people like the Hon Dr Nick Smith. He used National\u2019s opportunity in Government to move accident compensation in exactly the opposite direction, without restoring the right to sue, which by the time we came into Government was a clear call. We have said no to the right to sue, but we have said that the fairness that was enshrined in the original legislation, now had to be reintroduced into accident compensation\u2014fairness in the administration, fairness in the application of the legislation, and fairness in the method of dealing with accident compensation claimants. That includes a proactive response in raising issues that the Accident Compensation Corporation should be supportive of. I am delighted to see that code now enacted from 1 February. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI have another new portfolio, Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs, which I took over from the middle of August last year. This week in Greymouth I attended the first consultation meeting on an action plan for New Zealand women. It took some considerable time to get to the area, unfortunately, because Hokitika airport was fogged in as my plane was trying to land. I do not hold Damien O\u2019Connor responsible for that, but I do hold him responsible for the enthusiasm I saw all around the West Coast There was enthusiasm for the disability issues that I talk to people about, and certainly at the meeting to which I just referred, there was enthusiasm from women from Greymouth and surrounding rural areas for the activity that this Government is undertaking on their behalf. There was also very strong support for the local member of Parliament, Damien O\u2019Connor, and I am not surprised about that, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe now have over 50 meetings planned for throughout the country where women of all ages and from all regions can have a say in the development of an action plan for New Zealand women. It is over a decade and a half since this sort of work was done, because women were ignored by the previous National Government, as were most New Zealanders, to the shame, I must say, of some women members of Parliament at the time. Georgina te Heuheu rightly hangs her head. She struggled as Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs to raise issues of concern. She got no support from her colleagues. I know that and I want to pay tribute to her for at least attempting to get some issues raised on behalf of women. Well done, I say to Mrs te Heuheu. I acknowledge her attempt, unsuccessful though it clearly was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI look forward to those meetings, and, obviously, as Minister for Disability Issues, I was very pleased to have tabled in Parliament the most recent report on the implementation of the disability strategy. That is an area that is going to receive continued focus over the next 3 years, because there are disability issues in New Zealand that have been ignored for decades and will not be ignored in the future by our Government. We set out a clear 3-year programme over the last term. We have done the same for this term for disability issues. Our priorities are employment, education, and improving the attitudes of New Zealand citizens towards people with disabilities. We want to make a world of difference by our action. We want to have an inclusive society. I look forward to being part of a Government that continues its steady progress towards that end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022261604e6c90a438a8927a1c018f9eb01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022261604e6c90a438a8927a1c018f9eb01\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (NZ National\u2014Nelson): \u003C/span\u003EWhat was absent from that Minister\u2019s speech was any vision of the future of New Zealand, and any accountability or explanation to the old people who were defrauded when they were told that legislation to remove asset testing would be introduced last year. That Minister was silent on the sorts of issues that ordinary New Zealanders are asking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to support the leader of the National Party, who has rightly put on the political agenda for the year 2003 the issue of the sickly political correctness of this Government on what the treaty means for ordinary New Zealanders. Government members opposite are so confused about what they are doing in that area that they do not want to debate it. Yet the way in which the treaty is being applied is changing the fabric of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to raise with this House my concern about what is occurring in education. On Monday I visited the new early learning centre at Christchurch Polytechnic. It is a shocker. Members have to see it to believe it. In the name of the treaty and biculturalism, the taxpayer has funded New Zealand\u2019s first apartheid pre-school. [Interruption] I invite the members who are howling to visit it and see what is going on. It is a monument to political correctness gone wrong. The new centre\u2014[Interruption] I ask Mr Donnelly, because he has been to see it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596e9a79fc3b4c839c3d992440020a55\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard a lot about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204322964ed7d4d3c83086b39365cbd2e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Let me tell the member about it. The new centre has been built in two mirror halves, with a central core that includes the entrance, the administration area, meeting room, and staff room. That is all shared. It seems it is OK for M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori staff to share space in the staffroom, but not OK for children to share space. Children are drafted at the entrance, with Tamariki going to the left; other children to the right. It is not just the learning spaces that are separate; the children are fenced off from each other in the playing areas. The sleeping areas are separate. The toilets and changing rooms are also separate. During a normal day, M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori children will see each other only on arrival and departure. I know that apartheid is an emotional term, but it is the only term to describe such madness. This centre is licensed to care for and educate up to 85 children, from newborn babies to 5-year-olds. I cringe at the message that we are giving young minds for the most influential 5 years of their lives, and for their first encounter with the State education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori wing of the centre\u2014Te Waka Huruhurumanu ki Otautahi\u2014provides a bilingual programme. The non-M\u0101ori childcare centre also has a strong M\u0101ori component. The irony is that the 30 percent Asian and 70 percent P\u0101keh\u0101 children get to sing M\u0101ori songs, learn M\u0101ori greetings, but are fenced off from being able to play with M\u0101ori children only a few metres away. I asked the centre why it was that way. I asked why Asian children were integrated with those of European descent, whereas the M\u0101ori children were segregated. I was told that it was because of the treaty and the polytechnic\u2019s commitment to biculturalism. What does the treaty say that means that children are to be segregated from birth? The centre seems to represent the exact opposite of those immortal words spoken on 6 February, 1840: \u201C He iwi tahi t\u0101tou\u201D. The reason that National is pressuring the Government about the treaty is that this is the exact sort of nonsense that will go on when Ministers parrot words like \u201Cbiculturalism\u201D, \u201Cpartnership\u201D, and \u201Ctino rangatiratanga\u201D without the blindest idea of what the words mean. I stand on this side of the House and say that I do not want apartheid pre-schools. I do not want children to be divided by race.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d554379c7574646a521182546eb9734\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member has used inappropriate language. The member used the word \u201Capartheid\u201D when, obviously, he does not understand it in its appropriate context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244de7e987c47486f9a24a98d1c0d11eb\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022957aac3c3c1c4e1e97660c1ce2346319\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The most emotional experience I had last year was visiting the apartheid museum in South Africa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9133f73534f49c09bb913a1969ea887\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The behaviour of the speaker is highly offensive, and it should not be allowed in the House. If we are not allowed to use the word \u201Cracist\u201D, he should not be allowed to use the word \u201Capartheid\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022439ec64d9297463994161eb4daa218ca\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what is it when they separate the kids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c677f38d4614bd69ab6650074303b9e\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: It is not apartheid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022997651efa5d447f0848d15327ed68494\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9f78dae9ede4cda90ba9a40aafaa5f8\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am just ruling on a point of order. The honourable member referred to an apartheid museum. Is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022944c05d71a974cd4b8a39e55185f13d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242304e63040a452892ea72cf37f783cc\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not using the word in an offensive way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca99cf3147c44559c904c8510697527\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: When I visited that apartheid museum in Johannesburg last year, never in my worst dreams did I think I would see the same thing going on in this country\u2014and in Christchurch. It makes me feel sick that that is the sort of society that Labour wants for New Zealand. I make no apologies for standing on this side of the House and saying that that is not the sort of New Zealand I want. I have young children going to pre-school centres today, and I want them to live in a society where they go alongside M\u0101ori students, where they learn M\u0101ori welcomes, where they learn M\u0101ori songs, and where they are proud to have friendships with M\u0101ori children. The policies of this Government are preventing that sort of approach. What members opposite do not seem to understand is that good race relations start in pre-school, start in our classrooms, and move out onto the playing fields. They want to segregate those areas. It is ironic that members opposite\u2014those left-wingers who stood on the barricades protesting at apartheid only two decades ago\u2014now want to fund apartheid pre-schools in our own dear country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ade43858f38f4ef789007340c6c89e0e\u0022\u003EHelen Duncan\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to protest against the use of the word \u201Capartheid\u201D on the grounds that the member talked about Government policy and then about apartheid. The commonly held meaning of apartheid is a regime of government that enshrines racial segregation in law. That is not the case in this country, and I object to the word being used in that way. It is contrary to order in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f2b7d73f9d64a9a83f3a509cf69c82f\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The term cannot be used to describe the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a4bb3d802743b5aedeb36dd354f5d1\u0022\u003ERod Donald\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have just spoken to Ali Hughes, the associate registrar at Christchurch Polytechnic, and she has assured me that children of any ethnicity can enrol at either childcare centre. One is an immersion centre, and the other is the old polytechnic cr\u00E8che.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242538e9031ea42599d6894ce5e9638fe\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is actually a point of debate, Mr Donald. We can take time to clarify that question in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc11670f6c0648dc8d455041c0fc89c7\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have had a succession of pointless interjections by various Labour Party members that you ruled not to be points of order. None of those members were under the control of the senior Government whip, who sat there and blindly let it happen. That was followed up by another point of order, which you ruled as not a point of order. All of that time, including this time now\u2014which I seek a redress for\u2014is coming off this debate time. It affects other speakers from other parties further down the line. I seek the leave of this House that all of the time that has been lost be added on to the debate, so that the speeches of no other members are disadvantaged. That includes Labour members who have yet to come forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c734203d0b146078a085123dd6355bb\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But the member has sought leave for that. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b5620ffbfaf4b5885856d2bd1ce2a7c\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: You prat!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1fc09e39930432a984fc29a83421fb6\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is out of order, Mr Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022104df139f5784790ab69b39ea752cd2f\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: What is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac987e9fe6ca4354a0d73ca0ba459752\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Commenting after the leave was refused. It was properly asked for and properly refused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c52b25c8bfd41b5ad876abf43ac9ea4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have faced six points of order in the course of this speech, all of which you have ruled out. On a number of occasions speakers have said that where there has been a deliberate breaking up of a member\u2019s speech, we should properly allow for that member to express his or her point of view in this Parliament. I ask you to take the precedents that have been set by Speakers in the past to ensure that my speech is not further interrupted by inappropriate points of order, and that I am given the time that is being taken up by those interjections and breaks in my speech, which you have ruled out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f1ead560ae441e9d7b6f1b24f47566\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member has been misleading the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c362de7921e64ebca7583bab0251a018\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot say that. The member needs to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022684b61c62931466caf3ddb0578106d2c\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d787546c7e64e5085b318696f3279ce\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I note from the speaking list that the very person who will be affected by a reduction in speech time as a result of the points of order that you have ruled out of order, and which will bite into the 14 hours allocated, is a Labour speaker. I seek the leave of the House that that Labour speaker will be permitted to have a full 10-minute speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022489422ac4a9a41f1aa1ef8d33e2c39e3\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Standing Orders clearly state 14 hours. That is what we are continuing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cf0950be1b74720a0278f5a36eb7bcf\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I have sought the leave of the House, and you are obligated to seek the leave that I have asked for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4060721cf0b496bab9b80ca4be4bcb3\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You have sought the leave of the House, and it has been refused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225328419f9fdf4fbfafd78bf2cb9cac09\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Just now? I did not hear you put it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6b2e9065464cee949c194b31e5dbd1\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right, I will put it again. Leave is sought by Ron Mark to extend the time. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616128ac29234a288a0547290491f517\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I challenge those members to go and visit the centre. At the door they point \u201Cchildren\u201D one way and \u201Ctamariki\u201D the other. The children do not have any contact time at any point during the course of the day. I again challenge those left-wing members opposite\u2014who were proud to stand on the barricades opposing apartheid 20 years ago, who were part of the civil rights movement that in the 1960s tried to bus children so that they could be integrated together\u2014to say why in God\u2019s name we are building pre-schools that today separate M\u0101ori from other children. I say that is wrong. I say that it is not appropriate, and that there needs to be a different approach. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EAt least Tariana Turia is honest. I give her credit for the fact that she is prepared to be honest and say that she favours segregation. At least I can have an honest debate with Tariana Turia about that sort of separatist approach. I have to say from this side of the House that that is not the future I want for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f20a9e21d44f05975f8c94383521d8\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I would like the member to withdraw and apologise. I have never advocated separatism in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f421b89d2dcc474a97ced6456b16c1f0\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence. There should not be any more personal reflections like that. Would the member please withdraw the comment he made about advocating separatism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0f6660036484911833c3138dd0949ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am unclear. I said that I respected the opinions honestly expressed by Tariana Turia in respect of that matter. Therefore, I am unclear as to what I have said that requires me to withdraw and apologise. I have said nothing that is outside of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242e718a55ad3401ca23c6af0c9e166c3\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Dr Nick Smith has made a statement that referred to the Hon Tariana Turia. If she believes that it is inaccurate, her redress is to make a personal explanation to the House at an appropriate time. It is a debating point, and Dr Smith is entitled to make a statement, even if it might not be factually correct. If necessary, a personal explanation can then be made. This is starting to bite into my speaking time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217408b47279e40018bc693ddb783db8a\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague Tariana Turia clearly stated that she had taken offence at the comments that were made. You made a ruling, Madam Deputy Speaker, and directed the member to withdraw. He has yet to do so, and that is clearly in breach of the Standing Orders. I ask you to ask him to obey the directive from the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2c4258754474e339a061ab41c3a3a5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I want to make my position plain, Madam Deputy Speaker. What I sought was an explanation from yourself as to what comment it was that you required me to withdraw. I make the point that this afternoon Labour Minister Trevor Mallard spent 5 minutes bagging my name and saying all sorts of things that were incorrect. I made a personal explanation, and that is the proper course of action. I suggest to Tariana Turia that in relation to the comments that I have made, there are provisions under the Standing Orders that enable her to make a personal explanation at the conclusion of my speech\u2014just as I did earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230c05856def944edb3fa6b5a390e2a19\u0022\u003EMark Peck\u003C/span\u003E: The matter, in my view, is very simple indeed. You have made a ruling, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the member opposite is challenging that ruling, which has become a habit of Opposition members during this term of Parliament. Madam Deputy Speaker, your ruling must be upheld. The member must apologise. If he still has a point, he can take a fresh point of order after that. He most certainly has no right to challenge your ruling in the way that he has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289dbd870696c4ea2a6e1e37fac590feb\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Hon Nick Smith to withdraw. You will now withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab6f3ae15d794f1ea7a7dc9a37eed254\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am happy to withdraw, but you need to tell me what it is you wish me to withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e584f2886844c3f96fedce05551799d\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have already indicated that offence was taken by another member at the language the member used. Offence was taken, I ruled in that way, and I now ask the member to withdraw. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8338225e9174a7192dcd64221d3677c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am befuddled, but I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ece1499fe854bb29862aa27d6687361\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That was a clear breach of the Standing Orders of this House. You know, and the member knows, that when a member is asked to withdraw, he or she does so without any additional comment of any kind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229853fa18555f4d29b7997cc7d42d7a9a\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member does know that. Would the member like to withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fcf60830432402da4e2a7675c700ae1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. Is it not interesting that members opposite are so determined to stop a debate on just what they are doing to New Zealand with their political correctness over the Treaty of Waitangi. It is a disgrace. I ask the next Government speaker to justify why $880,000 of public money has gone to build an apartheid pre-school in Christchurch where M\u0101ori children are separated from non-M\u0101ori children. I want to make it plain that this side of the House does not support that sort of approach to education in New Zealand. I ask members opposite what sort of signal we are sending children as they walk in the door and, from the ages of 0 to 5 years, are separated out. What sort of message are we sending those children about their first experience with the State education system in the first 5 years of their education? That is not the sort of approach I want for New Zealand. It is a disgrace, and I want it changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI have two challenges this afternoon. First, I challenge Christchurch Polytechnic to reintegrate that early learning centre. One might be able to justify a separate area for the learning of the M\u0101ori language, but why do we need to separate M\u0101ori children from other children when they sleep? Why do they need to have separate sleeping areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022 data-id=\u002246b8e026af904284bbf57c3bdf430f4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246b8e026af904284bbf57c3bdf430f4c\u0022\u003EMARK PECK (NZ Labour\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table three documents. The first is a record of comments by a Mr Kevin Richards, of Drummond, in the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s electorate. After attending Waitangi Day celebrations, he said he hoped that others with racist feelings or anger might see his story and start to question their own hatred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239107960e9f046fe89245a771932af7c\u0022\u003EMARK PECK\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a leaked letter to Mr Kevin Richards, in which I invited him to join my party on the marae after he contacted my office to tell me that he was going to protest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f28c341130f446eaa0ebbe75e20865b3\u0022\u003EMARK PECK\u003C/span\u003E: Thirdly, I seek leave to table a media release, in which I congratulated Mr Kevin Richards for confronting his anger and dealing with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a00fccaa94944f296e28497bb2c4b36\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that letter to be tabled. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00220ad4087768d64f98a8fcfa38f3b321c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ad4087768d64f98a8fcfa38f3b321c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (NZ National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a set of background notes on the Christchurch Polytechnic early learning centre, including a plan of its layout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002265919c056173462c8449783e3560dbef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265919c056173462c8449783e3560dbef\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE (NZ Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E The Government certainly finds itself in an extraordinary position at the beginning of another year, and only three months into its second term. Over the last 3 years we have had extraordinarily strong leadership, which has been welcomed by the community, and the stable Government that New Zealanders want. That is why we have such a firm platform on which to build. In the last 6 months the new Government has made significant progress in delivering the commitments we made at election time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWe have improved access to primary health-care, and that has been for us a top priority, because we know it is better to prevent illness and tackle health problems early, rather than concentrate on secondary and tertiary services in the first instance. Already the primary health organisations are providing a range of primary health-care services to over 500,000 New Zealanders. The majority are therefore guaranteed lower costs and assured of access to comprehensive and coordinated primary health-care. A further 25 primary health organisations will start by 1 April, and by then it is estimated that 1.4 million New Zealanders will be enrolled in those organisations. What a great achievement! I congratulate my colleague Annette King on such progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWe have a growing economy. There has been an increase in activity of 3.9 percent in the year ended September\u2014so more people are in real jobs. There are almost 15,500 fewer people on the main unemployment benefit than there were a year ago\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022691348c42c66436d96e65058b6bbcacb\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: What amount is casual labour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022428b1977bfb044169edc6f4a2ca5fbd2\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Mark there are almost 120,000 more jobs than there were in December 1999. In addition, yesterday those extraordinary unemployment figures from the household labour force survey were released. They are the best figures in more than 15 years. Unemployment is continuing to trend down across all sectors, and is now at an extraordinarily pleasing 4.9 percent. That is great news for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThis Government has assured victims a fairer deal. The Victims\u2019 Rights Act, passed in October 2002, gives victims the mandatory rights they have long deserved. We have cut the cost of tertiary education, committing $420 million over 4 years in that area. If we had not halted the fee increases of the 1990s, students would be paying, on average, $1,000 more a year and facing further increases this year. We have made major progress on M\u0101ori television. That is a key element for the enrichment of the cultural fabric of this country, and we should all welcome its arrival. In the compulsory education sector, we are funding more than 700 teaching positions over and above what would have been required for roll growth alone, and we will continue to invest in increased teacher numbers. We are strengthening and expanding opportunities for people to learn in the workplace. By the end of the year, we will have 6,000 young people in Modern Apprenticeships\u2014an increase of 100 percent since the middle of last year. On the environmental front, we have ratified, at long last, the Kyoto Protocol, to start making some positive improvements in the long-term health of this planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThis Government will continue to provide stability and strong leadership. We know that there is no reason for complacency or self-satisfaction. We have set ourselves tough goals, and we are going to achieve them over the next 3 years and into the long-term future. Our aim\u2014an aim that is supported by the New Zealand community\u2014is to build and sustain solid levels of economic growth, and to fund good public services for all New Zealanders. We have well and truly rejected the discredited directions of the 1990s\u2014the direction that the sad people on the opposing benches seem to want to reintroduce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8a9aede8c564842a6599e11ced86cda\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: What happened in 1984? Were you asleep?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba31c08efc9d4970af5a31046fe2924e\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: We will continue to work to offer more opportunity and security, and a better quality of life for all New Zealanders\u2014even Ron Mark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003ECompare that with the performance of the lazy, leaderless lot opposite. The most telling indication for me is the almost total absence of National Party members from the Chamber over the last 3 days. We have seen sometimes three, often two, frequently only one person, or a whip, on the National Party benches. It appears that they have already given up to New Zealand First their claimed role as the prime party of Opposition. Many in the media and around Wellington are now referring to the National Party as \u201Cabsent without leave\u201D, perhaps even \u201Cmissing in action\u201D\u2014as my colleague Trevor Mallard commented earlier. I know I cannot name them, but I welcome the presence of the three members of the National Party who have deigned to come into the debating chamber this afternoon. The best those people can do is compliment the Government by referring to us as a three-term Government, and confirm that most powerful criticism of all\u2014that we have done what we said we would do. Thanks, Mr English. For us, it doesn\u2019t get any better than that! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWhat else is there? Let us look at ACT, with its schemes and scams. We know about Owen Jennings and his pyramid schemes; Rodney Hide with his mysterious dealings in Fiji, and now it appears that there are rather more pressing concerns closer to home. Ken \u201CKangaroo Court\u201D Shirley has been accused of defamation by the West Coast police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1c84ce7a0ad433eac47076b75b8baa5\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Members are to be referred to by their names and not by all sorts of innuendo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f1f88a86ff24af7912b50b0ebddced1\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is absolutely correct. The member will use the proper name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d43ce3bed324951b0780f0911737741\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Ken Shirley was accused by the West Coast police of defamation. Not one of those members is without a dark cloud somewhere, and, unlike most dark clouds, there is no silver lining to be seen. The community is finally seeing ACT and its new supporters for the political cockroaches they are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are delighted that Mr Prebble\u2019s little house of cards is finally tumbling down. Let us focus for a moment on Mr Prebble. The presenter of Morning Report of Tuesday this week said: \u201CThe ACT leader, Richard Prebble, says that as far as he is concerned, Mrs Awatere Huata\u2019s days as an ACT MP end today.\u201D In his own speak, Richard Prebble said: \u201CWell, using the British parliamentary example we are withdrawing the whip, and we are saying to Parliament that Donna Awatere Huata is not an ACT MP, and we are not prepared to vote her. In our system, that will mean that we will be voting eight instead of nine MPs.\u201D Mr Prebble continued: \u201CAs far as I am concerned, the principle is that we are not prepared to vote her, because she has not met the standards required of ACT MPs.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EFrom the behaviour of the members of that party, they are not very high standards, but that quote came from the self-imposed master of the rules. He wrote to the Speaker at the same time as the suspension, knowing full well that the decisive suspension has no effect in terms of the Standing Orders. Mr Prebble cannot have it both ways. Either Mrs Huata is an ACT member, or she is not. Can we reconcile Mr Prebble\u2019s words to Parliament stating that Donna Awatere Huata is not an ACT MP, and they are not prepared to vote for her? Can we reconcile those words with Mr Prebble\u2019s cynical manipulation of the Standing Orders? No, we cannot. So which way does it run? Do we assume, like everything else from ACT, that it is really about keeping one\u2019s hands on as much of the money as one can, and making sure those nameless backers of the ACT party out in the darkness get their way in this society? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWhat else is there at the bottom of the bucket? Well, there is poor benighted New Zealand First. The dog legislation, and its godfather! He is not in the House. We in this House have all noticed that in the absence of its leader, Winston Peters, that party has neither policy nor any knowledge about what to do. And poor benighted Dail Jones gets it oh so wrong. Without Mr Jones and Mr Prebble, that legislation would have already been with a select committee. Without those members, that select committee could already have been inviting public submissions. Without those members playing their stupid games, the community could already be having their say about the development of policy and law in this Government. They have not got it yet! Why do we enjoy such support in the polls? Why do 20 percent of committed National voters prefer Helen Clark over their own leader? Why is 60 percent of the population and 71 percent of business convinced that this country is proceeding in the right direction? Because we consult, listen to the community, and do what we tell the community we will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EAs my colleague mentioned earlier, voters in Clutha have not missed the significance of the closure of Mr English\u2019s electorate office. I think they are telling Mr English that it is time for him to find a post office and line up in Dr Brash\u2019s queue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00226bc239ad762a43a191668cffe9a1794c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bc239ad762a43a191668cffe9a1794c\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Might I say, firstly, that it is good to be back. I congratulate all members on having a safe Christmas. I am looking forward to the rest of this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EHaving just heard that rather interesting contribution from the senior Government whip, a member who sits on a salary higher than most members in this House receive, I now do not understand one reason for taxpayers paying him anything. The first thing I want to say to him is that if he feels seriously, strongly, and passionately about an issue, then he should come down to the House and talk about it. Obviously someone else wrote his speech for him, because he had to read the whole thing out. If he had something serious to say, something he seriously believes in, then he would have stood in the House like some of the great orators who have gone before him in time, such as David Lange, to name one, and just spoken from the floor. But, oh, no, what did we see? The man stood up and read word for word off his speech. That tells me he knows nothing about the things of which he speaks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ESo let us talk about this Government. Over the holiday period, we all witnessed the events in Iraq as they unfolded\u2014[Interruption] Sometimes one really has to worry about the well-being of some people who sit in those seats. That lady should take a pill. Over the Christmas holiday much of our time was occupied in watching the events unfold in Iraq and the Gulf. All members in this House have had to exercise not only their minds but also their consciences as to where they sit on this issue. I have noted the Government\u2019s comments. I have also noted the fact that we have service personnel deployed in the Gulf of Oman already, and that they are setting about doing their duties in terms of supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. I will be watching with interest to see how this Government handles any further deployments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EMy greatest concern, and I will signal it now, as we head into what could become known in history as the Third World War\u2014because there are very few nations that are not now engaged in some way\u2014is that there be a debate in this House. I expect, and indeed the taxpayers, the citizens, and the voters of this country will demand, that that occur before this Government commits its service personnel to any further involvement in that region. So far we have not had debate. We have skived around the issue by saying that it is an extension of an operation that we were already engaged in in Afghanistan. Well, I can accept that to a point. But the point is here now, and any further involvement that this Government commits this country to in respect of actions in the Gulf I expect to be debated on the floor of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eafc96601b1a45a48c3fc2680af1b04b\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: As we always do!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296a2ea450eaa4739a53607ecc2e30198\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: No, I say to Jill Pettis, the junior whip, who is more highly paid than most other MPs in this House, the House did not debate the deployment to the Gulf of Oman. Do not sit here and lie to me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237b89eb1079c4ee1beb94650d211ab17\u0022\u003EClayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243da664b0a0e44d29ddd4d397285737f\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that got him on his feet!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a42473d8b0b74f87b93bf86eeef0e5cc\u0022\u003EClayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think you can anticipate my point of order. That is an outrageous breach of the Standing Orders, and I think that the member should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274276bb7990047449b48d19908da643b\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member accused the other member of telling a lie. The member will stand up and withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022509a7200736547e882609e5272f2bdb2\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d28479af593441d83b24efd3615aaf4\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, the member will stand up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d75ffa0a8b8445da879dcd2a52aae89\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to bully me into this without listening to an explanation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5b1a505864f4e899488836d3def8739\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please be seated. I have clearly ruled on the matter. The member will stand up and withdraw the remark about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2c0fbd384d1436d95cb493b40b3bfea\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022748f6b6a221049618f3e5127fb384c3a\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have told the member to withdraw the remark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470987d9b01745c1b02fa13f99425058\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the remark. That member over there said, in her own words, that this Government has debated every military deployment it has instigated. That did not happen with the deployment to the Gulf of Oman. How would members interpret her comment? I know how everybody in New Zealand who is listening would interpret it, and I know how I interpret it, but I am not permitted to say so in this House. That would seem to be somewhat bizarre, but we shall move on. The point, I say to Jill Pettis, is that I expect a debate in this House before the Government deploys any troops to any action in Iraq. We expect that, and so does New Zealand. The member should wake up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EOver the next few months there will be closer scrutiny on a number of areas of the Government\u2019s portfolios, because the Government has shown that it is incapable of acting in certain areas. I point to the corrections portfolio, for a start. Before the House rose and we went into the Christmas break, the select committee was advised that the cost of the Ngawha prison would be $105 million. Today we read in the newspapers that Ngawha will top $132 million. In my book, either the Minister of Corrections should get the sack, or the head of the Department of Corrections should get the sack, because I know Helen Clark, and she always utters the truth. She said there would be new levels of accountability in this Government. Not only do we still have the ongoing issues of Ngawha that the people of Northland are protesting about, which is their democratic right, but also we have a very simple issue of accountability. And how big are we around this Chamber on chasing issues of accountability? Eighty-nine dollars worth of underpants kept the Labour Opposition Party going for years! Yet here we have a Budget blowout of $100 million, and no one is fired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere are people in Northland who would say, and one would have to forgive them: \u201CIt\u2019s probably because the P\u0101keh\u0101s are running it, eh?\u201D. One would have to take that on the chin. From where they sit, when their concerns are being ignored, and they see these sorts of numbers coming in, one could forgive them for saying that. But all we know is that it is simple incompetence. It is not racism; it is incompetence. It is incompetence by the Government because it has allowed the situation to get to that stage; it is incompetence by the Minister because he has done nothing about it, and still does nothing; and it is incompetence by the head of that department, who probably is paid more than the Prime Minister, because of creating such a disaster in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe corrections problems do not just sit there, do they, Tariana Turia? The honourable Minister over there knows of the issues inside of corrections that have yet to be addressed in terms of the way it runs itself. I am looking across this House for support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683661f62a6945f8b3a4c7f2311ce526\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: So conciliatory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8211f0da68445418dbb16a0f346bcca\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Young Daryl Hughes can scoff, but behind him sits a Minister with far more experience, knowledge, and information at her fingertips than that junior member will ever have, no matter how much he might aspire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere are issues to deal with in corrections. We can look in the Christchurch-Canterbury prisons, can we not? We need to look at the goon squad. We need to look at all the decisions. We need to look at the death of an inmate that the coroner said was contributed to by the actions of corrections staff and management. What have we done? Absolutely nothing! A young man is dead, because he was given a day out to visit a woman who is known for dispensing drugs illegally. She has since been convicted of giving him the drugs that ended his life. What have we done? Nothing! This House is sick to death of hearing Labour members, and, I have to say, Progressive Coalition members, out on the hustings saying all the things they want to do to people. \u201CPoor inmates\u201D\u2014yet when it came to the goon squad, when it came to Canterbury prisons, and when it came to that young man, nothing was done. He is dead. His parents grieve. His family grieve. The only reason he is dead is that he was allowed back into prison. He was not searched. He used the drugs he was given on a little day outing that was not properly supervised, and he overdosed. Oh, brilliant! Well done, corrections! And well done the Government, which has not acted to clean up what is going on inside corrections. I can name about five or six members on the Government benches who know precisely of what I speak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWe can do this the hard way, or we can do it the easy way. The Government can take control of it, sort it out, and work with its own members who know what is going on, or we will do it the hard way. The hard way is through the media\u2014it is \u201Ckick down, get out, drag it out, do it bad and dirty\u201D. And who wins? Really, nobody wins. I would much rather see the Government members who know what is going on inside corrections bring the issue to a head and then we deal with it as a Parliament and in a way that Helen Clark said she would with her new levels of accountability. Well, it ain\u2019t happening! It has not happened for 3 years. We are out to 4 years, and my heart is telling me that if it is left to this Government it might not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI am looking at a very eminent lawyer\u2014I cannot think of his name\u2014who is sitting in the ranks over there. He is well known for standing up for and protecting prisoners\u2019 rights. I expect more from that man. We have heard a lot about how M\u0101ori are doing so well economically. Is it not a shame that the Kyoto agreement and the Climate Change Response Bill will now impact so heavily on M\u0101ori corporations that are trying to develop their economic well-being? What have I heard out of any one M\u0101ori MP on those benches? Zip, zero, nothing, zilch! And that is right at a time when we are going to see a downturn, as announced by Fonterra, in the payouts to those corporations. But, of course, we will hear the rantings around the House about how M\u0101ori should do more for himself. The Kyoto agreement and the Climate Change Response Bill will do nothing for their farms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1d49026f5a543d7ae244d60b34b59bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1d49026f5a543d7ae244d60b34b59bf\u0022\u003EHon MATT ROBSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E Helen Clark\u2019s statement to Parliament outlined the progress that had been made, and will be made, by the Labour-Progressive Government. I am not surprised that an unimaginative National Party put a motion of no confidence. I was surprised that the Green Party, since Green members vote as part of the 63 votes that give a majority to the left in this Parliament, would fall into line with National on that. Confidence has been rising in the Labour - Progressive Government because of the dramatic improvement in our economic development and social well-being. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThe last speaker made reference to the area of corrections. That is one example of a dramatic growth in confidence in the way the Government looks after the well-being of our people. Today, a sentence under the new Sentencing Act was given for a particularly heinous crime. A serious offender who is in the category of needing to be separated from the public for, possibly, the rest of his life has been sentenced. That Act was passed to deal with the few dangerous offenders. It also pointed the way towards dealing with the sad many who fill up our prisons and mental institutions. This Government is acting on both sides. There is a lot that has been done and there is a lot to be done for public safety, but this Government is committed to doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EMany speakers on the Government side of the House have outlined the achievements of the Government, but it is worth repeating a number of them. First, there is a dramatic drop in unemployment, which means there has been a dramatic increase in jobs. The basis of that has been the planning and commitment to investing in New Zealand and to developing our regions. My leader, the leader of the Progressive party\u2014which is a partner in the coalition Government\u2014Jim Anderton, has played a very big role in that. That is not only because of his own ability\u2014he undoubtedly has a lot of that\u2014but is also because he has been part of a programme committed to using the resources of the Government and putting them back alongside the community. Now, we have 15,500 fewer people unemployed than a year ago, and 123,000 more jobs than in December 1999. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EIn community safety and care for the public, we have passed the Victims Rights Act, and we have made sure that there is a balance between what we are doing with offenders, what we are doing for victims, and what we are doing with early intervention. We have increased teaching positions, and dealt with the issues of assisting those students who are in tertiary education to have lower fees and certainty regarding the fee structure they will have. Six thousand Modern Apprenticeships will now come on stream this year. In environmental matters the Kyoto Protocol, despite the huffing and puffing of the Opposition, is in place and is putting us at the forefront of the world of dealing with those issues\u2014as has the Royal Commission on Genetic Modification, by putting in such a comprehensive set of guidelines. The Progressives are proud to be part of that set of achievements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EOf course, we want to go further than that. We entered the election with a set of cornerstone commitments. Those were to move towards full employment and to have free education and health care, support of families that leaves no one behind, strong, safe communities, and investment in New Zealand. Each of those will be discussed in the Budget round, and we will seek to move as quickly as possible on their implementation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EIn particular, we are concerned with taking effective steps to eliminate poverty over all areas, and especially child poverty. Poverty takes many forms, and is often not recognised for what it is. Poverty exists in the family that struggles to make ends meet. In this Budget round, and in ministerial policy debates, we will discuss the following: setting a timetable to eliminate child poverty, prioritisation of spending on poverty issues, reviewing all Government spending for its impact on children, supporting more inter-departmental and inter-agency approaches, increasing Family Start and early intervention programmes, and complying with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Yesterday, Michael Cullen advised the Finance and Expenditure Committee, as reported in the Dominion Post, that his priorities were \u201Ca big rise in family support payments and incentives to get beneficiaries into paid work \u2026 because many children in low-income families underperform at school because they move houses and thus schools frequently.\u201D Such steps are what the Progressives are working for, to attack poverty at its roots. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister in her statement referred to the Labour - Progressive Coalition agreement to promote work and life balance policies. As part of that balance, the Progressives have introduced my Holidays (Four Weeks Annual Leave) Amendment Bill. We want the substantial part of the lower-paid workforce that is deprived of the leave entitlement that management\u2014and members of Parliament\u2014give themselves to gain that increased quality time of rest and recreation with family and friends. We are hopeful that other parties will act on that issue of equity and will support the measure. With the trade union movement and community organisations, we will campaign for that balance between work and life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EInternational events also confront us. We face the most serious question of all for a nation: the threat of war. The Progressives stand unequivocally, as part of the Government, for the principles of international law. That means working in the United Nations for the rule of law, not the policy of might is right. As Helen Clark said in her statement, the New Zealand Government, like most governments, has sought to uphold the principles of multilateralism, the international rule of law, and the authority of the Security Council throughout the crisis. The people of Iraq deserve that protection and respect. It is possible to stop, by weight of world opinion, the United States launching that war, which is a war it wants in order to advance its political, economic, and strategic interests. The last time that the United States initiated a regime change in Iraq was in 1968, when it installed Saddam Hussein. It was not a good idea then, and it is not a good idea now. I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Do I not have a 1-minute bell?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644a250a055d446ab4baae4840509ce2\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The speech was over 5 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9b5527e6ab948f08b1d210fc4efb428\u0022\u003EHon MATT ROBSON\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u0022767a018e047847de90e40e8ef22cb0fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022767a018e047847de90e40e8ef22cb0fc\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (NZ National):\u003C/span\u003E In my view, three points arise in the context of the Prime Minister\u2019s speech\u2014not because she addressed them, but for the reverse reason: she did not address them. The first is that the economic and social advancement of M\u0101ori is critical to New Zealand\u2019s future growth, prosperity, and well-being. The second point is that the M\u0101ori economy is poised for expansion and growth. The third is that all governments have a clear responsibility to create a framework that enables individuals and communities to flourish and grow and, in doing so, to build a nation together. M\u0101ori are most certainly included in that third point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EOn the first point, the economic and social advancement of M\u0101ori, this Government uses words that suggest it understands that, but its actions show that it does not. No nation can afford to carry a significant chunk of its population that is underachieving, is welfare-bound, and has little prospect of improving its condition. M\u0101ori are a big part of that chunk, but that chunk of people also includes other New Zealanders. This Government, for all the effort it supposedly puts into the M\u0101ori community, has shown that it is not capable of understanding the importance of advancing M\u0101ori economic and social well-being. We still have near to 400,000 people on welfare. A fair number of those are M\u0101ori. There is an unacceptable rate of illiteracy. Fourteen percent of all those about to enter the workforce cannot read or write. A lot of those are M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ESome communities are facing epidemics of preventable diseases such as diabetes and obesity, and in some drug and alcohol abuse is rife. Parts of our communities have substandard housing. One in three children are living in poverty. The Government likes to boast that it has brought down the rate of unemployment. The rate of general unemployment is running at around 4 percent, but the rate of M\u0101ori unemployment still sits at 11.5 percent. That is not acceptable, and that does not match the words of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThat is what I mean when I say that the Government is great on words, but short on action. None of those issues are being addressed. The Prime Minister can boast about the relationship building with M\u0101ori communities that has been going on for the last 3\u00BD years, but political relationship building and hui, no matter who convenes them, are not addressing those basic problems, at all. That is not good for M\u0101ori or for New Zealand. New Zealand suffers when M\u0101ori economic and social well-being is not advanced. This Government has no answers on the issues I have raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EMy second point is that the M\u0101ori economy is poised for expansion and growth, and, while the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs likes to boast about that as though he had a part to play in it, I say it has happened despite this Government. Much of the growth and expansion in the M\u0101ori economy occurred in the 1990s, and that was acknowledged in a report launched by the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs last week. It will be a case of shame on this Government if that growth and expansion does not occur. M\u0101ori collectively own assets and businesses that produce $1.9 billion each year. That demonstrates the capacity of M\u0101ori, when they are given the right environment\u2014and they were given the right environment in the 1990s\u2014to grow, to develop their assets, and to create wealth for this country. It also gives lie to the myth that M\u0101ori are a drag on the economy. They are not\u2014not in respect of the business enterprises they are running. The drag comes in when the Government keeps M\u0101ori tied into dependency and does little to address some of the basic issues facing our families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI refer to a recent speech given by Rob McLeod, the senior M\u0101ori businessman who is now chair of the Business Roundtable. He refers to\u2014in fact, he laments\u2014this Government\u2019s anti-business and anti-growth policies. That comes from a man who, for much of his career, has been involved in business and has participated in growing businesses. So he has some grounds on which to lament the anti-growth policies of this Government. His conclusion, after a survey that was done by the New Zealand Herald at the end of last year, is that New Zealand\u2019s growth will not go anywhere unless this Government gets off its behind and starts to promote policies that actually support and enhance business development and enterprise. M\u0101ori business is included in that, and it will be a case of shame on this Government if the growth and expansion that is poised to occur in the M\u0101ori economy does not occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe third point I referred to is that the Government has a clear responsibility to create a framework that enables individuals and communities to flourish and grow, and, in doing so, to build a nation together. Part of building a nation together is that we take everybody with us and, if M\u0101ori communities and individuals require that extra resourcing and funding be put into those communities, then that is done with the support of the wider community because it benefits the wider community to support such policies. However, this Government wants to keep the M\u0101ori vote, and it is now looking at a party, New Zealand First, that is quite capable of capturing that vote\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294408a09fe3646ff80190053c5f73c0f\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Aw!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b8a329f702241c486faca8a83cbcd11\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, that is true. Why did John Tamihere get stuck into that M\u0101ori group in New Zealand First yesterday? It was because that group poses a threat to the M\u0101ori vote that is now currently held by a Government that treats that vote in a condescending, patronising manner. It is shameful that the Government does that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThis Government advances M\u0101ori interests in a way that turns the community off. In terms of capacity, in the 1990s National promoted treaty settlements and policies that advanced M\u0101ori health, education, and such. We brought the New Zealand public along with us and showed there was a clear balance to be struck. This Government has no idea of that balance. The reason is that this Government is for getting the M\u0101ori vote, and says to heck with anybody who gets in the way of that aim. M\u0101ori are most certainly included in the nation-building exercise. In respect of their own assets, they have shown that they are as capable of helping to create wealth for our country as the next person. This Government will have to answer to the M\u0101ori people if it gets in the way of nation building that brings M\u0101ori, P\u0101keh\u0101, and all other interests along. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI go back to my three points. The economic and social advancement of M\u0101ori is critical to this nation. The M\u0101ori economy is poised to grow and expand, and this Government ought to be creating a framework that enables the nation to grow. It is doing none of those things, and it does not understand any of them. The Prime Minister\u2019s speech was short on any vision that addressed those matters. The Labour Party will suffer at the next election, when New Zealand First grabs more of the M\u0101ori vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022 data-id=\u0022644b31abbce64ff48d76f3d9649b2fd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022644b31abbce64ff48d76f3d9649b2fd2\u0022\u003EMAHARA OKEROA (NZ Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Ko t\u014Dku nei t\u016B tuatahi, he mihi aroha atu ki a r\u0101tou r\u0101 e piupiu ai te rau o te kawakawa, mai i te w\u0101 e whaka kapi mai t\u0113nei pouwhare o te motu nei, tae noa mai ki te whakat\u016Bwhera an\u014D i t\u0113nei w\u0101 i roto, i runga i ng\u0101 r\u0101 e rua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E[Firstly, I stand to pay a tribute of sadness to all those who passed away in the period that this illustrious House has been in recess, up to the time it re-opened 2 days ago.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EI stand here today proud to be a member of a Government that demonstrates both stability and strong leadership. I ask that honourable member not to go away, as I want to comment on and analyse what she said. All that I can say is encapsulated in a phrase, which is that I thought it was a dance of verbal desperation. We understand that Georgina te Heuheu, the only M\u0101ori member on the National bench, is over there as part of that party. In a way, I say aroha atu m\u0101tou ki a koe. [we pity you] I am pleased to be part of a Labour - Progressive Coalition Government that is committed to the well-being of all New Zealanders, and that recognises little people and gives voice to the voiceless. It is a Government that is prepared to ensure that the democratic processes and procedures enable all its citizens to participate in and to contribute to their communities if they so wish, and is a Government that is prepared to look at the structural impediments to that and remove them if necessary, or, alternatively, to create more liberating and participatory institutions and systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EOnce again, we have been reminded by the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Helen Clark, of the importance of the Treaty of Waitangi and of the importance of having a well-educated, informed, and knowledgable public that can participate in informed discourse and debate. I look forward to that. During the time I have been here in the House I have listened to uninformed and ill-informed debate from a member who was once the whip of the New Zealand First Party, and who made some disparaging remarks about our two whips, who will be here for the whole term. Treaty education is essential to the smooth running of our society. We cannot continue to be subjected to the emotive and ill-informed rantings of the current temporary captain of the National Party. He is a man who, in an act of counter-transference, appears to be holding the Treaty of Waitangi responsible for the division and the disunity within his own party. It is little wonder that our people are getting browned off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EI have just learnt that the temporary captain of the National team has talents that were previously unrecognised. I suppose in some societies they call it the third eye, but in our society we call it the gift of matakite, which means the ability to foresee. For example, Bill English has stated that this coalition Government is a three-term Government, although the election is at least 30 months away. On the other hand, which leader of a party concedes defeat before a contest takes place? Does that mean my interpretation should be that quitters never win and winners never quit, but that those who never win and never quit are idiots? Is that how I should interpret that? Sitting around and lying in wait are a number of heavyweight wannabe captains, who must be girding their loins in glee and anticipation. The Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2019 smile has a gloss more brilliant than his normal glow of confidence. It has been demonstrated that the leader of the Opposition could have damaged himself as he attempted to gerrymander a caucus vote, to enable him to box his way out of a paper bag that has enveloped him\u2014a big brown paper bag that is also known to pack a punch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EWe have been subjected to the brain-damaged bleatings of the leader of the remnants of the National Party, who describes any attempt to redress inequity or injustice as apartheid. His use of that word is inappropriate. That does not bother him; he is more interested in appealing to the insecure and the ill-informed, and in strengthening his very tenuous hold on his captaincy. What a sad commentary it is on us as politicians that people have to appeal\u2014and I suggest members over there on the Opposition benches listen to this\u2014to base human instincts, in a desperate attempt to cling to power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EBill English seems to have forgotten that it was a previous National Government that supported the establishment of k\u014Dhanga reo, when our people identified a solution to a need. Was that an act of apartheid? No, it was not. It was a recognition, underfunded though it was, by that Government of a need to support a solution to a problem identified by M\u0101ori. It was support of a \u201Cfor M\u0101ori, by M\u0101ori\u201D initiative\u2014an initiative that we in this Labour - Progressive Coalition Government continue to support because of its positive outcomes and its demonstration that people are able to meet their own needs. The support for k\u014Dhanga reo continues to be the recognition of tangata whenua world views, policy systems, and practices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori world is tired of the myth of privilege that has been peddled around by members of this House every time that a M\u0101ori initiative is supported. Where is the privilege in having disproportionately high rates of unemployment, school failure, poor housing, poor health, and incarceration? If those are indicators of privilege, then I am sure our people will give up those privileges for the burden of full employment, academic success, adequate housing, good health, and freedom from incarceration. That myth of privilege is what indigenous people like the Australian Aboriginals, the Hawaiians, and the First Nation peoples of America and throughout the world have always had to endure\u2014that is, all peoples who have been colonised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EI now turn to the contribution that M\u0101ori have made to our economy. A recently published report by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research identified the benefits of the M\u0101ori economy to the New Zealand economy. It stated that M\u0101ori production contributes $1.9 billion per year, and about $826 million in operating surpluses. But are we complacent about that? Absolutely, no way! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EFinally, I refer to something that I saw on television from the very astute constitutional lawyer, Mai Chen. She stated that this Government has been upfront and totally transparent in putting its policy initiatives before Aotearoa, to be monitored and evaluated in terms of its progress. That takes heaps of courage, good teamwork, and good team support from the members of this Government. What do they have over there in the Opposition? Those things have all disappeared. The Opposition members have no fresh ideas, no leadership, and no future. Kia ora mai t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a09c7d8567c3437e900fafa30696538e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a09c7d8567c3437e900fafa30696538e\u0022\u003EMURRAY SMITH (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Twenty-seven years ago the then Labour Government led New Zealand into a dark tunnel. It asked New Zealanders to trust it to lead the way through the tunnel and out the other side, and New Zealanders gave it that trust. The tunnel I am referring to is the redressing of the Crown\u2019s breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi over 150 years, and the development of a New Zealand society that gives appropriate contemporary recognition to the relationship that was formed between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori in 1840. Most New Zealanders know and accept that immediately following the signing of the treaty the Crown reneged on its obligations. Not only that, but it suppressed tikanga M\u0101ori and te reo M\u0101ori, forcing M\u0101ori to conform to the inherited British culture. Acts of Parliament were passed stripping M\u0101ori of their lands, their identity, and their mana. M\u0101ori lost much of their self-esteem, and the social statistics over the last 150 years graphically evidence that repression. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003EAn often overlooked consequence of those actions is that non-M\u0101ori New Zealanders became accustomed to living in a society developed entirely from British culture\u2014dominated by non-M\u0101ori, where M\u0101ori, in general, had little material wealth and even less socio-economic status\u2014which ignored the rights of M\u0101ori that the Crown, as signatory to the treaty, had promised to protect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003EDuring the 1990s in particular, the National Government decided to its credit to continue to address the difficult issue of putting right the wrongs perpetrated against M\u0101ori and to move New Zealand ahead as a unified nation. It moved away from the colonialist attitude of its predecessor Governments. However, 27 years later we are still in the dark tunnel. The Labour Government is leading our nation, seemingly promising us that as we address the wrongs done against M\u0101ori a new society will emerge at some unknown time in the future, in which M\u0101ori will attend their rightful place, whatever that might be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003EBut just what is Labour\u2019s vision for this new society? What do they think New Zealand will look like in 10, 20, or 50 years\u2019 time? If they have any such vision, why will the Prime Minister not share it with the rest of New Zealand? The answer is that Labour does not know where it is going. It apparently cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel, and is wandering in the darkness asking New Zealanders to simply trust it, even though it is blind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister in her speech referred to the Government \u201Ccontinuing its partnerships with M\u0101oridom\u201D. Labour\u2019s manifesto refers to its \u201Cstrengthening its relationship with M\u0101ori as treaty partner\u201D. But what of this partnership? Is this a 50-50 partnership? Are M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori to have an equal say in the government of the country and everything below it? Is that what the Labour Party envisages? If so, it is time it told the country; if not, what sort of partnership proportions are we talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003EThe Government is giving mixed signals. On the one hand it is increasingly legislating for compulsory M\u0101ori consultation on a wide range of issues. That points towards some sort of 50-50 partnership. On the other, it seeks to marginalise M\u0101ori, passing a bill allowing for M\u0101ori seats in local government that will effectively mean that M\u0101ori have a mere 15 percent representation on local authorities, and that once their 15 percent voice has spoken, the other 85 percent of non-M\u0101ori elected representatives will use their vast majority to make the decision. That would suggest an 85-15 partnership, based on population size. Is that what the Labour Government means by partnership? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003EThe National Party, having started off down the tunnel, has now decided that it no longer wants to follow Labour through the tunnel. It has decided to go back to the beginning of the tunnel, to go back to the colonial past, where the predominantly non-M\u0101ori government dominated M\u0101ori affairs, and M\u0101ori had to simply fit in with what the Government decided was best for the whole of New Zealand. Any concept of working together with M\u0101ori or embracing M\u0101ori culture has gone out of the window. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003EThe fact that National has only made such a dramatic policy U-turn to differentiate itself from Labour makes its pragmatic policy experiment reprehensible. National promotes policies that would again repress M\u0101ori and count the treaty as simply a historical document with no significance in modern New Zealand. I predict that as a result of National\u2019s new position we will this year see the rise of an extremely divisive and highly charged debate that will set New Zealanders against each other in a highly destructive way. The flame had already begun. National has just poured petrol on the fire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225caeb43f-d5eb-4780-bddc-0fc23950543a\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are becoming tired of being led through the tunnel with no end in sight. If they could only be shown the light. If they could only be shown that the credible endeavours of this Government to bring M\u0101ori up to the same living standards as non-M\u0101ori, and to redress the grievances, was being done with all urgency and that there is a clear commitment that in 10-15 years time the grievances would be behind us, the M\u0101ori statistical indices would equate to the average New Zealand indices, and we could move forward as a unified nation again\u2014M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori together. That is the vision that New Zealand asks for this year, but it is a vision that the Labour Government is unable to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u00225c672ca4157244c3a062a7dff3231cea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c672ca4157244c3a062a7dff3231cea\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (NZ Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to join this debate following the Prime Minister\u2019s statement. The Prime Minister\u2019s statement was an excellent statement to the country and the House. It set out this Government\u2019s plans for the future, and our future is to build and sustain solid levels of economic growth, and to fund good public services and infrastructure sustainably. This is a debate where the Government expects to get bit of a towelling, but it did not happen. There is no firepower at all in the Opposition. The Opposition is fractured\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9e0139812042898ab4a7518885fbce\u0022\u003ERod Donald\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies to the honourable member. I seek to table something that I think she will find very interesting. It is a press release that has just been issued by the Christchurch Polytechnic headed: \u201CComments on apartheid pre-school are abhorrent and misinformed\u201D. I seek leave to table that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b2e3df31f524b908ef60d8733c0505d\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to have a press statement such as that tabled during my comments. I am sure I will endorse and support every word that is contained within it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EAs I said, the Government expects to get a bit of a towelling during debates such as this, but it did not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EI want to devote a short time to talking about what is actually happening to the Opposition in this country. Good government needs good opposition. First of all, I want to talk about the ACT party. For years that party has turned around and portrayed itself as the party of business. Well, it has quite a lot of business experience, but that business experience does not necessarily mean that it equates with the type of business the rest of New Zealand respects. We have Mr Eckhoff who wanted to farm Kiwis. We have Owen Jennings who was an expert at pyramid selling. Perhaps he is headed for Egypt as I speak. We have Mrs Awatere Huata who is greatly into fashion show chaperoning\u2014the type of chaperoning one wants when one does not really need it. We have Rodney Hide with his wonderful Fijian economic tours. We have Muriel Newman who recommends that the poor and downtrodden pick fruit, and eat as much from the grower as they can while they are in the process of doing so. If that does not work, they can become women of the streets. Now, who in their right mind would recommend that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc8ceeb3d563446a8224c553f7fba9e3\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member is not allowed to use words like that against members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d48d7c74267e480fb0addd85a5001d57\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: It is in her book. The member should read her book. It is in Muriel Newman\u2019s book. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022437cc5d80b254232952ce1d088d921b9\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8679747233146d4b054acfc1c28a674\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: The member should read the book, then see the movie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EThen we have National with a brat pack. It is out of date, out of time, and out of humour. The brat pack is led now, I assume, by Roger Sowry, who was weaned on a pickle. The National Party is just shaking dead rats. We have Don Brash who is portraying himself as the future business leader and finance spokesperson. He even fancies himself with that role for New Zealand. I have to say that Mr Brash and I share one thing, and one thing only, in common, and that is that we were both born in the same city. There the comparison stops. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EMr Brash talks about people being frog-marched to collect rubbish\u2014those who are not currently employed. He does not talk about upskilling people; he has a patronising tone towards people, and is so out of date, time, and humour that he is referring to people signing up at 8 o\u2019clock in the morning at the post office. Well, we all know what has happened to post offices in New Zealand, and when questioned on National Radio earlier this week about that not working, Dr Brash had to say that there was nothing wrong with it. I just have to say to him that he should come into the real world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EIt gets worse\u2014and I am sorry to hear this of Dr Brash because he is an intelligent man, and I say that with absolute sincerity; nobody doubts the man\u2019s intelligence at all\u2014because he is engaging in beneficiary bashing and stigmatisation, looking for a group to discriminate against, and pitting New Zealanders against other New Zealanders. He is turning those who are strong against those who feel weak, often, through no fault of their own. New Zealanders want to work together. For the first time in many, many years, New Zealanders have pulled together, worked together, and are looking forward now with a vision about ourselves. We are feeling confident, and strong about where we can go as New Zealanders. I think New Zealanders as a whole, from throughout the provinces, the metropolitan areas, and the small rural towns, are feeling a sense of well-being about themselves that they have not experienced for a very long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EWe know, as a Government, that there is an awfully long way to go. There is no room for complacency at all. The task in front of us as a Government, and as a country, is huge. We are a small, geographically isolated country, but we pull beyond our weight, and we are developing a new sense of confidence about the fact that we can do that. We do not want to go back to the days of beneficiary bashing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EI am reminded by this most graphic cartoon, which I am holding up for the House, of those days of Ruth Richardson. If she lived where she grew up she would be a constituent of mine, but she does not live in the electorate any more. The cartoon quotes Ruth Richardson as saying: \u201CGood news! Good news! Under National, solo mothers will be able to work.\u201D And there is a picture of a solo mother doing what most mothers do\u2014standing up to their elbows in the sink and making sure their children are fed. The depiction of that patronising attitude that used to prevail is so out of date that this country does not want to go down that track again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003ESome fantastic, fabulous things are happening in my electorate of Whanganui. We have the most encouraging employment growth that we have had for many, many years. There are fewer people unemployed now in Wanganui than there have been for nearly 15 years. We have wonderful growth in regional tourism, and we have a sense of positiveness in our electorate that I have not seen for a very long time. The people have a spring in their step because they are feeling confident and good about themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EIn closing, I want to comment very briefly on this dreadful, awful debate that is ensuing about immigration. I want to encourage the leader of the New Zealand First Party and his colleagues to stop bashing our immigrants. It is despicable and uncalled for. My electorate needs immigrants to fill skilled positions. We are all immigrants in some way or other, and I am shocked at this terrible attack that is occurring against immigrants who are welcome in this country. I welcome immigrants into this country, and I am asking New Zealand First to stop this bigoted attack on people whom we need in New Zealand. Immigrants are welcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200302136b3254ae438645979b83c5a0ce04c7dc000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"