"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214ee02aeb88a4456b6c8ebfc6588adad\u0022\u003EThursday, 22 May 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb799989e255423f896fe46bb0e74ea2\u0022\u003EThursday, 22 May 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff936eaf952c4eefb0eef4b3d0abfaad\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022575cbb997ac0467b8774823aa6eb1c34\u0022\u003EDeputy Foreign Minister of Vietnam\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u0022f18e11e1412641fc98e522f0fa89b45e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f18e11e1412641fc98e522f0fa89b45e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have much pleasure in informing members that His Excellency the Hon Mr Nguygen Dinh Bin, Deputy Foreign Minister of Vietnam, accompanied by the Minister for Trade Negotiations, is within the precincts of this Chamber. I am sure that members would wish that he be welcomed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EHis Excellency the Hon Mr Nguygen Dinh Bin, accompanied by the Minister for Trade Negotiations, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c9328f1691db4103885980faa741df8b\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ae44fed11a44dd0949123fe1f9820ec\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00220324e246d63247e592673028bab441b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220324e246d63247e592673028bab441b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week the House will go into a 2-week adjournment. When the House resumes on Tuesday 10 June, it is the intention to make progress on the Courts and Criminal Matters Bill, the Industry New Zealand and Trade New Zealand Integration Bill, the Crimes Amendment Bill (No 6), and the third reading of the Minimum Wage Amendment Bill. The first Wednesday, of course, is a members\u2019 day. Over the next sitting period, it is also the Government\u2019s intention to conclude the debates on the performance and current operations of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises, and the Appropriation (2002/03 Supplementary Estimates) Bill, including the second reading of an Imprest Supply Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002233110d1626af49ebbe859edb81c4d17d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233110d1626af49ebbe859edb81c4d17d\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (NZ National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I wonder whether the Leader of the House might give us some indication of when the Responsible Gambling Bill will be coming back before the House. There is quite a bit of public concern about it, particularly in the sporting community. A number of letters are coming out of the various trusts affected by this, stating that they are unable to make grants for summer sport pending the legislation being passed. Can the Minister indicate when he might let the sporting community of New Zealand know just when the bad news is to hit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022601fb23e139f411ab8a0d0254b6f6014\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022601fb23e139f411ab8a0d0254b6f6014\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I can tell those bodies that they can proceed. There is no reason to believe the canards put about by some that the Government will grab the money. There is no intention to move such an amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9e6b6a757d14fafb7c96d5ec334bc9b\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a809982434b84ffe8efb2c241076a472\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d377e5f282574518bf2842989d981a20\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreements\u2014United States\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022446780a73e4e498581a31fb5a1c2ace6\u0022\u003E1. Hon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Trade Negotiations : Is he optimistic about New Zealand\u2019s chances of securing a free-trade agreement with the United States in the near future, particularly in light of United States Trade Representative Robert Zoellick\u2019s comment that: \u201CThere\u2019s been some things done recently that would make (a free-trade agreement) harder to carry\u201D, and does he think this comment is a reference to the Prime Minister\u2019s stance on Iraq; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022 data-id=\u0022e323196744194c27a33a61b9929ae427\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e323196744194c27a33a61b9929ae427\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON (Minister for Trade Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E Ambassador Zoellick\u2019s remarks were his own. I do not intend to interpret them. New Zealand will continue to pursue its interest in a trade agreement with the United States. We have known that this would be a big challenge but we are prepared to put the effort in with the United States administration, the United States Congress, and American business and agriculture groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297d175c49ea4950af58897d2a628ff2\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister really believe that opposition from the United States farming lobbies to exports of New Zealand lamb and dairy products is the real reason behind Mr Zoellick\u2019s comments at this time, considering that Australia also has a strong lamb and dairy export industry but is, nevertheless, apparently on the brink of signing such an agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b013cec8bb44e059277ebbe99cef27d\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: Ambassador Zoellick\u2019s comments, as prepared for delivery, contain no reference to New Zealand whatsoever. It is quite clear, and it has always been clear, that the main obstacle to New Zealand obtaining a free-trade agreement with the United States would be the objections of United States farm interests to additional competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7a3508a39a6427e9837a6a3ddcb895d\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the \u201Cthings done recently\u201D might include Helen Clark\u2019s criticism of the Bush presidency, her statements aligning us with China and France, and the heavy playing in the US of the picture showing her cuddling up to Jacques Chirac at exactly the time he was public enemy No. 1 in the US?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235510cffccf746ef819965f15ae3596d\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am quite sure that Ambassador Zoellick would never have heard of most of the things on the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s list of complaints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022575e88923eee4e3a99d5594fa4f48f2b\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: Were Ambassador Zoellick\u2019s comments a rejection of New Zealand\u2019s case for a trade agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2c1bbdf70dc408bb4703d2581b2d82a\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said before, Ambassador Zoellick\u2019s comments are his own, and I will not interpret them for him. However, the New Zealand Government does not regard this as a rejection of New Zealand\u2019s case for a free-trade agreement. We will continue to follow the advice of Ambassador Zoellick to work with the Congress, the Senate, the administration, the business community, and farm groups in support of our case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf3e3cde92740ce8ee138d14183e4eb\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that the American farming lobby has no intention of ever allowing New Zealand to have a free-trade agreement with America, particularly after the war with Iraq?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39aa12d9ea840f0bf4c6eafa9889369\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: The fact of the matter is that New Zealand rural interests are working increasingly closely with United States farm interests in, for example, the processing and marketing of dairy products, where recently New Zealand technology has added significant value to the US industry. We support the initiatives taken by congressman Charles Stenham, who recently has facilitated a meeting between New Zealand, Australian, and United States sheep interests, with a view to jointly promoting lamb markets in the United States for the benefit of all. We intend to keep working to ensure a partnership relationship develops here, which will not be inimical to a free-trade agreement in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e72af1c767de4114bcbe513c7a442afd\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement of 10 May in the Dominion Post in response to questions on the Prime Minister\u2019s criticism of the US invasion of Iraq: \u201CSo far it hasn\u2019t made any difference as far as I\u2019m concerned.\u201D, and does he now concede that the Prime Minister\u2019s comments torpedoed any chance of a free-trade agreement between New Zealand and the US; if not, what was Ambassador Zoellick referring to when he said the United States was disappointed at recent actions by New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8232ef8a3e404f9f2e16216f881a71\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government certainly does not accept that those recent remarks torpedo any chance of a future free-trade agreement. All I can say is that I continue to have an excellent working relationship with Ambassador Zoellick, pursuing our common interests in trade negotiations, particularly in a multilateral arena.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bc47c7b2a89475083dbe968fd144d3a\u0022\u003ERod Donald\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister regard Robert Zoellick\u2019s statement on 8 May, that countries must cooperate with the United States on foreign policy and national security goals before they meet his criteria for a free-trade agreement, as bribery and blackmail; if the Minister does agree, does he also agree that it is more important for New Zealand to maintain an independent foreign policy stance than to succumb to America\u2019s wishes to dominate the planet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29847da57ee43b1896fc186980c0fc3\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not share the member\u2019s uncharitable interpretation of other people\u2019s comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222974878c8c9345fe9294ef024ba5454d\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of Mr Zoellick\u2019s comments, does the Minister not now consider it vital that the New Zealand Government immediately seek to improve its diplomatic and political relationships with both Australia and the United States, and, if he does think that way, what steps are to be taken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229169b859b5e14f5bad628971f46d339d\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has consistently taken the view that these are two of New Zealand\u2019s most important bilateral relationships, and it does its best to develop those constructively. However, by doing that we do not forgo the chance to express an independent view on foreign policy issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022032a314cadff44328f7054f4fbdba2f9\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to those rural and provincial communities that will miss out on $1 billion worth of trade, jobs, and opportunities, and that believed him when he said on 5 May: \u201CNot too long after Australia has completed an agreement, we will be there with a good chance of negotiating one ourselves.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a7f761f0e74ee2910d127e5be40ce0\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have no reason to change that view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226711aaa651574356b0234e7ad052a54c\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall his statement of 1 April 2003, in response to being asked whether sending troops to Iraq would help to secure a free-trade agreement: \u201CI don\u2019t believe it would make any enduring difference,\u201D; if so, can he explain to the House what actions, lack of actions, or comments by the Government he now thinks have made that difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a53ad18500c24df9acc8c0c84ebddc68\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly do not believe that any comments the New Zealand Government, or members thereof, have made about the Iraq war have made any enduring difference to the relationship. A healthy relationship allows the free and frank expression of views. We disagree from time to time with our friends on many subjects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ff516fe2d344b748298aecb7655c7c3\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member did not really address the question, because he actually turned it on its head. The question the Hon Peter Dunne raised was really the same as my question. We both asked the Minister what things New Zealand had done that have caused this change. He got up and said that he does not think it was this statement and he does not think it was that statement. What does he think caused the change? That is the question Mr Dunne asked. We want to know what New Zealand has done that has caused us to lose our free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ab61ca27d54bf8988e730e39016b8e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He did address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1c3d3e68796456e805e1cef6d8121e7\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: If it is nothing that New Zealand has done, and if the issue is not one of opposition from the United States farm lobby, what steps does the Minister think New Zealand now needs to take to ensure that we are back on the list, in terms of a free-trade agreement being negotiated at some point in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285717b928c37428fb3735a42f5a8d741\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not aware that New Zealand has ever formally been on any such list, or indeed that any such list exists. All I can do is reiterate that we will continue to work with legislators, with the administration, with the business community, and with farm groups in the United States to advance our case for a mutually beneficial bilateral trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bb086c4354c42bbbe01fbd4d0344d4a\u0022\u003EInternal Affairs, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1a4e36120ec48dfa65c8ae67014cfdc\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in the Minister of Internal Affairs; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00226a73114df8e1450a84bc8141b5aca5a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a73114df8e1450a84bc8141b5aca5a4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister),\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d50f565fb3421c856387901bf2d48e\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Why has she put so much confidence in this Minister, when violent crime has increased massively since this Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203816b2c344c47eb95b27953da077fef\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question related to the Minister of Internal Affairs. The member cannot switch portfolios because it is the same person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224350cd3a66bd4b74a9776f374a5f0898\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is absolutely correct. The member must now come to the Minister\u2019s role as Minister of Internal Affairs, if he had not come to it already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac9ad5e91374d7db41fa629e6fe213f\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister noted that there is a direct correlation between the violent movies and films this Minister lets into the country with impunity, and the growing violent crime in society?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f936be22bc7a40699313a8b7fd344972\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f040d2bef224797899846b154348f98\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable to the Prime Minister that a film is allowed into this country that displays a 10-minute rape scene, a man having his head bashed to pulp, and much more, while I note that in this House we are not even allowed to use the word \u201Crugger\u201D spelt with a \u201Cb\u201D; and, if it is not acceptable, will she insist the Minister does something about film censorship\u2014or at least go and look at a film?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85981cb9b124b12996c67219d30942b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike a famous former National Party predecessor, the Minister does not watch those kinds of films. I understand that Mr Graeme Lee used to invite his colleagues around to watch them in the past. The Minister is unable to correct the Chief Censor of Film and Literature on these matters. That is a matter of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285ef342c9ec14222be5052c6543d4df1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If you would not mind, would you explain to the House, and particularly to the Opposition, how Dr Cullen\u2019s answer was in any way relevant and necessary in respect of the question he was asked?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5c4db2d147e4346ae9ee209c971c4f0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is no need for that. The second part of the answer was perfectly relevant; the first part was not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209c6649e7db248189d32c73e16fad912\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister not recognise that the Minister has performed dismally when it comes to such issues as leaky homes, Agent Orange, and film censorship, and that he has now created a fund that is going to rob local communities of returns from gambling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f202e9dd77ee43a991c3efe1a4e69be4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The last point is completely untrue, as I stated in the business statement. On the issue of censorship the Chief Censor is completely independent. It is not up to the Minister to decide what films that member, or any other member of this House, can watch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289d7a1aed7f94aaba51e9ed270a6a586\u0022\u003EDefence Force\u2014New Ships\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf79b053b74942a299831051f83cdf05\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (NZ Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Defence: What progress has there been made on the acquisition of new ships for the New Zealand Defence Force?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00227bd272a8fd264b738d9fcbff0ffa1915\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bd272a8fd264b738d9fcbff0ffa1915\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to advise the House that the request for proposals for the acquisition of new naval vessels, which is matched to New Zealand\u2019s wider security needs and known as Project Protector, is about to be released to six short-listed companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208d8090fb3564526a4344b4ec6923c8b\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: Will New Zealand industry get an opportunity to be involved in this project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb794b5f267148faba14a3435b8594b8\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The Ministry of Defence and the Industrial Supplies Office are actively promoting the capabilities of New Zealand industry with the short-listed companies. As part of the tender response process, companies are required to report, in writing, on what they have done to afford opportunities for New Zealand industry involvement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277fe1f563a7f4c3d8b9198c146d3e1b6\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister guarantee that all new vessels being built for the New Zealand Navy will be built to a military engineering specification rather than a civilian commercial specification; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257852b2ddf554a50afc7ae300357a97e\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the member that the ships will meet the specifications as designed and arrived at by the agencies involved. The purpose is to ensure that we have the right vessels to do the job we require of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdcdf5d8a4464f88a5ee6c7d208e3fad\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister once again try to explain to the House whether these vessels will be built to military specifications or civilian commercial specifications?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e0effcff9340008ecd15caf97f6cd7\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I can explain to the member that the process by which the invitations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0f52eee829b4699a6780949fd94720c\u0022\u003EOpposition Members\u003C/span\u003E: Just answer!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c51bf096d8d04acd8894855b48d777a3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister will have an opportunity to answer, and I want him to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c337d3064c4417eb4e2099d6e90ee4c\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: The vessel designs submitted by the six companies or groups that are being invited to do so are to meet set operational specifications. The companies are being invited to put forward the sorts of ships that will meet those requirements, and we will make the judgment about which is the best tender on that basis.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c82ca8397296471b8a2e92a6adaac137\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. When the Opposition took umbrage at the way the Minister started to answer the question, you insisted that the Opposition should be quiet and give the Minister a chance to answer. In fact, you directed the Minister to answer the question. The Minister has been asked twice whether the specifications are civilian or military. We know the process. The Opposition is not interested in the process, we want to know the specifications, and, at some stage, surely the Minister has to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a000162ed5e149efb153060a1679cbf5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member want to speak to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022480aef11f76a4e27b1089183cb23e5e8\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c1091ad51949f0acfe41267ba31ad3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister did address the question. Whether it is satisfactory to the Opposition is not my concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf946ee1d7ef44dbbd185d5aec9fa730\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Do \u201Cset operational specifications\u201D mean that the specifications will be military or civilian?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022564efc7d3ff0473ca64baee9beb2bed5\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Those specifications mean that the vessels will be required to meet the needs of military and civilian functions, because the vessels are required to meet a wide range of defence and civilian capabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee769cc62ff04553aaee4de410fc01de\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think this is one of those questions where you would be justified in allowing Mr Mark and the National Party to ask some more questions, because that answer is a piece of nonsense. We all know what the Minister has been asked. A military ship is built to a different specification, so it has things that mean it will still be able to operate if it is hit; a civilian ship does not. There is really no reason that the Minister cannot tell us whether the specifications are military or civilian. Of course, a civilian ship can be used for military purposes\u2014we all know that. That was not what the Minister was asked, and I do not understand why\u2014[Interruption] I know that Mr Cunliffe is very proud of being rewarded and of being a Minister, but I do not think that is a reason for him to interject on a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6306e4edc064e54a53abd589cea7797\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, he should not. He will leave the Chamber, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287dfc333d5fe4f77a90f66292045e94d\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I am really interested in the answer. I suspect that the Minister must know, and I think we should be allowed to ask some more questions; otherwise, we have wasted our time this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcc9ac87eeaa47b69db304b38b0105ac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister does not have to answer according to the questioner\u2019s prescription; he has to address the question as he sees fit, and he did so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6e78c75141d447a95af4862925013d8\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Prior to the Easter break, I raised a point of order about Ministers not answering questions, and you gave us a ruling on that after Easter. The question addressed in part of the ruling was whether a Minister could be considered to be trifling with the Chair if he or she did not give an answer. Your answer was yes. As for the question of whether that would therefore allow more supplementary questions, Speaker\u2019s ruling 128/4 states that if a Minister is trifling with the Chair, further supplementary questions can be permitted. In this case, I put it to you that the Minister has not answered the question and therefore could be considered by you to be trifling with the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f17bf4df834054a1c52dbd9621d85c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I always listen to the member\u2019s comments with care, because he does not often raise points of order. On this occasion, I do not agree with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e06a90be61c543c79bbe63f7d3a3db74\u0022\u003EBeef\u2014Canadian Imports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6521caf2674408c9c560b1a23c7615d\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Food Safety: Can the Minister reassure New Zealand consumers that no beef fat products imported from Canada have entered the food chain in New Zealand; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022b68f45d563474540bbbd3e55bcb582e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b68f45d563474540bbbd3e55bcb582e9\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Acting Minister for Food Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that New Zealand has imported approximately 100 tonnes of beef fat tallow oil and 250 tonnes of shortening over the last 18 months. I am further advised that a temporary hold on consignments of beef products from Canada will remain in place until further information is available from Canada.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd922f14017047f2b5f1cfe247a93d72\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that beef tallow and shortening are both used in cooking foods, such as fish and chips and hamburgers, and that it is totally unsatisfactory for consumers not to know where exactly it is used in the food chain; and does the Minister agree that the situation demonstrates the urgent need for traceability of food ingredients and country-of-origin labelling so that consumers know where their food comes from and can make up their own mind about whether they want to eat products that contain Canadian beef extracts; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e0991b1fbd1496fa4042f500b220bda\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: We are very concerned about the products that New Zealand consumers take in. We have very good traceability systems in the country. I can confirm that the shortening is used in cooking, and that the beef fat tallow oil is used in cosmetics and soap. However, I am confident that if the member has used any of the cosmetics, she will not contract mad cow disease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b1b22eb8a146daae104cc491ff375d\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: What action did the Government undertake when it was informed of the situation in Canada?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c390770a719b414aa2588a001151e752\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The Government was notified first thing yesterday morning. Officials from the New Zealand Food Safety Authority, the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Ministry of Health, customs, and biosecurity met, and a temporary ban on beef imports was put in place. Imported product from Canada was traced, and I am confident that that was a timely and thorough response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d1f8929bff4661861d91abd53718b8\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Given the latest news from Canada, is the Minister reconsidering her opposition to the labelling of imported meats; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe353fd206204a6b8a3884bddef10695\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: We do not consider that to be absolutely necessary at this stage. We have a number of other protocols and systems in place. Customs data can identify specific imports. We have an ability to contact those importers, recall any products that we consider to be of high risk, and, of course, publish any further information that is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223faf3a57a24b46dea59e1892fd6d33db\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Food Safety Authority does not actually know where 100 tonnes of beef fat tallow oil and 250 tonnes of shortening, which may contain beef fat, have in fact ended up in New Zealand; and how can she therefore claim that we have very good traceability systems in New Zealand or that we are in any position to recall products, when we do not know where they have ended up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296b7c2dbda9046da8216990dc9d380b1\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: We do know where that went. We are assuming that it has been used. It is a very, very low-risk product. The Food Safety Authority does have the ability to trace any high-risk products. No such products have come into this country. We consider there to be no risk to New Zealand consumers or to the New Zealand economy at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c856debbdf604b149ae6c3057165551b\u0022\u003EFree-trade Agreements\u2014United States\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acced27a4c34f21a6bb7bf807c43596\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Trade Negotiations: Does he believe that the statement made by United States Trade Representative Robert Zoellick in relation to New Zealand that: \u201CThere\u2019s been some things done recently that would make (a free-trade agreement) harder to carry\u201D to the United States House of Representatives was a reference to the Prime Minister\u2019s comments about the United States presidency and the war in Iraq; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022 data-id=\u002273ab58bc620e44a7b57613be61753318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273ab58bc620e44a7b57613be61753318\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON (Minister for Trade Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E As I said earlier, ambassador Zoellick\u2019s remarks were his own, and I do not intend to interpret them. New Zealand will continue to pursue its interest in a trade agreement with the United States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d6d46d8f87464f80530f16473cbdaa\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen a diplomatic cable, dated 21 January 2003, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade in Wellington to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade in Washington, stating: \u201CNew Zealand could suffer economic harm, particularly through investment diversion, if the US and Australia proceed with an FTA agreement without a similar agreement being negotiated between the US and New Zealand.\u201D; and if he has seen that cable, does he believe the advice that Government officials gave him and the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0126251c72d4b6288d3506196ca74d3\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not recall the particular cable, but I do accept that a free-trade agreement between our two largest trading partners to which we were not a party would have some potential downside for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213306c900dc54ceab69c968fb75c2e9a\u0022\u003EDavid Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister had any reaction from Washington DC on this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d84ade061d34c58a3ef0bbd3397c79e\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I draw members\u2019 attention to comments made today by the President of the US - New Zealand Business Council, Fred Benson, for whom I have enormous respect. He is well connected with the US administration and the US business community, so his words carry a lot of weight. I was pleased to hear him say that he does not believe that the door is closed to a US \u2013 New Zealand trade agreement. His view was that we should press on and do our job to show the case being made by US business for a free-trade agreement. That seems to be pretty good advice to me, and I think the Government will follow it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022641ef04ad7974ec79c9670772a1dc490\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received from the Prime Minister, following the Prime Minister\u2019s recent meeting in Europe with Mr Zoellick, with specific reference to the issues raised in this statement: \u201CThere\u2019s been some things done recently that would make (a free-trade agreement) harder to carry\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbadc95b07ec4316ae4e91f21edf56a7\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have had no report of ambassador Zoellick saying any such thing to the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f1d87285d60447da59c231298b20862\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Is Parliament to interpret the Minister\u2019s answers to the House today to mean that he\u2014the Minister\u2014and his officials have no idea what is meant by: \u201Cthings done recently that would make (a free-trade agreement) harder to carry\u201D, or does he not care what those \u201Cthings\u201D are; if that is not the right interpretation, would he now tell us what he and his officials believe are the \u201Cthings\u201D that have been recently done that would make a free-trade agreement harder to carry? What are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022016505c70b8e40e6b8f249d75789d7d0\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: The correct interpretation of what I said was that I do not intend to interpret ambassador Zoellick\u2019s words for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022304f2c7226dc472e9e182fb6a2c9e4e4\u0022\u003ERod Donald\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen reports in Australia that claimed gains from a US - Australia free-trade agreement rely on heroic assumptions, such as the US abandoning all agricultural protection measures, and that without these there are no gains to Australia from a US - Australia free-trade agreement; if so, are claims of benefits to New Zealand from a free-trade agreement based on similarly fanciful assumptions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d08d36c1d304c57b1b3ff1cd9f2c69c\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have no recollection of seeing the report the member refers to. I will say, however, there are potential upsides and downsides for New Zealand in this situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022675374fc0c774b98a123241a729eade2\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister is unwilling to interpret what Robert Zoellick said, can he give us the benefit of his huge experience as a trade negotiating Minister and tell us his opinion of whether Helen Clark\u2019s remarks about a Gore presidency, her remarks about alignment with France and China, and her close relationship with Jacques Chirac have made his job easier or harder?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d037ba4e8ad4b95b85e8a3786e67baa\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am a persistent person, and I just get on with the job. I am confident that success will eventually attend our efforts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0c063c5cdf04c55b75d2667c9456f83\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The fact that the Minister may or may not be persistent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba60cf142eca4d5dbb668d7788596ffa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, he went further than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c1c95d3f53144d4a98494634d0e2eb9\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he did, and he said he would carry on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217e24b93a11a4bfabcda8fb57f58837c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CConfident\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23bdc8116984def9b0eb423fbcd430c\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: He said he was confident, but he did not answer the question put by the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221ec0468ce9242a4afe092c133f270db\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221de81a90602340beb3bf1fc15f1bc49f\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I think I can help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc67a47bf9d47f7b1cff8eb2ee3e4b6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Richard Prebble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276b831ca0210469b9f6d7cf84928c339\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member should listen more carefully. I think the member really did answer. There was no doubt about his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4c0ac35e36d43af9b2eabecbde96f4a\u0022\u003ECensus\u20142006 Preparations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9da2b1f111f401b9bf42f0d18efa4a5\u0022\u003EDIANNE YATES (NZ Labour\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Statistics: What progress has been made towards determining the content of the 2006 census?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea8966c51592411fafcbac1e97a2dbd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea8966c51592411fafcbac1e97a2dbd6\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE (Minister of Statistics):\u003C/span\u003E Decisions on census content are made by the Government Statistician. His autonomy is jealously guarded; so is his integrity. Recently Statistics New Zealand released its report Preliminary Views on Content for the 2006 census. This document is the basis for further consultation and public submissions. Submissions on census content close on 27 June this year. A final decision on the proposed content will be released in October.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227250264b43924f3992990678897a58fa\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: Does Statistics New Zealand\u2019s release of its preliminary views on the census content mean that decisions on the content have been predetermined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd9e5937067c4e17930b3c188f9dfcb2\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: No, the contents will be determined only after the submission process is completed and the views arising from that process are analysed. It is important to note that the content of the 2001 census did change from that proposed in Statistics New Zealand\u2019s preliminary views. I encourage those interested in the census content to make a submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e854cb144a2e4bd1b38f2deb36fe64e2\u0022\u003ECrime\u2014Asians\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de034155e36349a4813c8ae1f5f29bce\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What initiatives, if any, is he contemplating to deal with the increasing rate of Asian crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2286a5b67594e52b8c332ab13402f75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2286a5b67594e52b8c332ab13402f75\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E The police deal with criminals regardless of race or creed. This Government has in the past funded, and continues to fund, initiatives to fight all crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8808c0f82494c58b71cdaf6f27278f5\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Does one of the Minister\u2019s initiatives include gagging the entire police force to stop its members from embarrassing the Prime Minister, as has been reported in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald\u2014a bizarre response, would he not agree, given that by his own figures apprehension of people born in China for violent offences has leapt by a massive 297 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee9314197aa42ddbff175fd0359fd59\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The fact is that the apprehension rate of Asians, per 10,000 Asians, fell from 117.7 in 1996 to 116.8 in 2001.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bc731d07ed144d8be8e8c7d6dfcc99a\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: What is the philosophy of the police in dealing with crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b61e0cec1a429693e913b1381055fd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do encourage esoteric questions, but that is a very, very wide one indeed. The Minister may give a very brief comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a898c0e6814d42a76127704617dbc9\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The police discharge their oath, and I quote, \u201Cwithout favour or affection, malice or ill will\u201D. They are not interested in casting aspersions on groups of people in our community. It would be a pity if members of the House sitting opposite did cast aspersions, because it would only stir up a climate of hate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6627aafc676406d9761343114b4d6dd\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am going to take that as a direct shot at myself, which I deem to be offensive. I ask for your protection; and my reason for requesting your protection from such aspersions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb1ab5d4c3542aea7c7502ce3b0d094\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If that was an implied personal reflection on the member, the Minister will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec2a2b73a1db4201809b007907db5c01\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It was not a personal aspersion at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc939912dda44eb83d2847ab660c5ec\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That cannot possibly be the case when this Government and previous Ministers of Police have focused so heavily on M\u0101ori crime without one word about offence being taken. This issue needs to be dealt with as an issue, as opposed to it being turned into a personal attack by a Minister on an Opposition member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7fce44b4fa144cebc5de5447aa5bf39\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken personal offence to it. I would now ask the Minister to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2811a0cc13c476680a08a8097b15602\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224204e71cd3c4092968d333471094cc8\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister consciously considered the practical and logical initiative of funding the Auckland police to implement the Auckland City District Police\u2014Asian Responsiveness Strategic Plan, dated 26 October 2000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217d79a9cdd6a4dc1b1205da252450ad4\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to tell the member that the police are now helping fund a language telephone line, and are surveying the Asian community about its needs. Police liaison officers are working with the community. There are talkback programmes, and formal working relationships between the police and Chinese programmes and organisations. Of course, the police also work with other groups, to make sure that members of the Asian community are not victims of crime and are not singled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b62240ad-adda-430d-887a-8f999ef4bbc4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d9898dc504492287af0e7610664ebe\u0022\u003EDr Muriel Newman\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned about being asked about Asian crime, in the light of Statistics New Zealand figures showing M\u0101ori conviction rates are double Pacific Island rates, five times European rates, and 10 times the other category, which includes Asians; that being so, what initiatives, if any, is he contemplating to deal with the increasing rate of M\u0101ori crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220015b6d835fc411eb17fe430c8585341\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is outside the original question. The Minister may make a very brief comment in relation to the original question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caefd0ce1f4147b591700dc8c82eb7e9\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The police have many initiatives to fight crime wherever it occurs and whoever commits it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238c558f8c10a410aa18a239e175f557c\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: When police officers like Senior Constable Steve Lamb of Auckland, District Crime Manager Detective Inspector Kevin Baker, Detective Inspector Gavin Jones of Auckland, and Detective Sergeant Bob Kerr of Christchurch are all reported as saying that immigrant crime is escalating disproportionately, and when his own figures out of his own office show the same thing, why do the Minister and the Prime Minister continue to tell this House that the increasing rate of immigrant crime is low?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7b75ce2b20240b5be7f46811004d178\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Because it actually represents a very small number of people in the Asian community. Crime in the rest of the community is overrepresented, being four times what it is in the Asian community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c1d7341f29d415eb379a13bf110e9d4\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister doing to assist the New Zealand police force out there trying to keep our streets safe, whose officers are required to deal with 300,000 people in New Zealand who do not speak English?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241bf5fadff4a44c18d10142d08817511\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think the last statement is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228989b853022e4d6a9169ed42844cdb9f\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Unless the Government is about to deny its own figures, is the Minister now calling me a liar?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bd96741528c45b5b774696ed9ea827f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Minister is entitled to give his opinion, which was perfectly adequate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb160604d7f74b50bb4b69125c3d8878\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the document, Auckland City District Police\u2014Asian Responsiveness Strategic Plan, dated 26 October 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284f54fcb41924291a0a1057b98f1b469\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022afb85eea31a244b7b1fe72f6f861d61b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afb85eea31a244b7b1fe72f6f861d61b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a series of documents that relate to question No. 5: a diplomatic cable from Washington to Wellington, dated 28 May 2002; a Treasury report of 6 November 2002 on the harm to the New Zealand economy if there is not a New Zealand \u2013 US free-trade agreement; and a diplomatic cable from Wellington to Washington, dated 21 January 2003, which I quoted in a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022588ebcb001da4f9bb1a96a543d545477\u0022\u003EOil and Gas\u2014Waitangi Tribunal\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22b8facc86e4c0ba582d9872f0c14f1\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: When the Hon Margaret Wilson, on her behalf, said yesterday that \u201Cthe Government will consider the report and the recommendations from the tribunal\u201D, does this mean that the Government may still accept a claim by M\u0101ori for compensation regarding petroleum; if not, why did she make this statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00222d279b0f09774eb09394956f032053c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d279b0f09774eb09394956f032053c4\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Prime Minister: No, the Government will consider the tribunal\u2019s report because it has implications for the settlement process beyond the specific issues of using petroleum as compensation in Taranaki. Also, I see no reason, on the evidence and the advice I have, to change the position relating to compensation regarding petroleum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253b6ae43d88f451b974160c59c066ace\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister said that the issue of contemporary claims \u201Cshould be parked as an issue for another day\u201D, and also: \u201CWe cannot deal with this at this time.\u201D, will she now, after 2\u00BD years, deal with the issue and tell M\u0101ori and the whole of New Zealand what Labour\u2019s position is on contemporary claims for natural resources, such as petroleum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b48622a8574c9eb6c67ef849d87ca0\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The report deals with petroleum and Crown minerals in a historical context; it does not deal with it in a contemporary claim context. We are, however, looking at the issue of contemporary claims at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246b89980826f457d8b937deaca6f89ea\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What are the other implications of the tribunal\u2019s petroleum report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa00ddc7bc264857a419201df4282c41\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The report has introduced the new notion of a treaty interest, the meaning and extent of which need to be understood better. This notion appears to suggest that settlements agreed by claimants and the Crown should not be full and final, and could be revisited in certain circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224af3f4013dad4b4bb603baef4ca9a395\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: What criteria are applied by the Government in assessing the national or public interest affected by treaty claims, whether contemporary or historical, and for how long have these principles been applied?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8c5f3bc18c7459cbf8ffdd8a46b63fe\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The principles have been applied in terms of, certainly, petroleum since 1937, but it is the Crown Minerals Act that contains the provision relating to the Crown use of Crown minerals. In other words, this is also being incorporated in the Government\u2019s Crown principles governing the negotiation of historical settlements. There is a section at page 94 stating quite clearly that natural resources are not available for general use in settlements in the way that cash or surplus lands are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246196344416d45e5bcd72b9d1cd48fb6\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by Michael Cullen\u2019s statement in April: \u201CIt genuinely makes the treaty a living document when new applications or implications may rise as circumstances change.\u201D; if so, how is that consistent with the Government\u2019s treaty settlement policy that all settlements are final and cannot be reviewed to take account of those new applications or implications, such as petroleum resources?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3bbc0d49691428b8460f8671ae422ca\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is that the full and final settlement relates to the negotiation of the historical claims and grievances that have been recognised and incorporated in the deed and in legislation. So it relates to that; it is an agreed position. Within that is an acknowledgment that Crown minerals are not the subject of compensation in terms of cash or land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283db969870714c609e2de2d8d0627fc6\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister\u2019s last answer mean that, although it is the Government\u2019s position that all settlements to date are full and final, there is now an opportunity for that provision to be reviewed in what was described in the report as \u201Ccontemporary settlements\u201D; if so, what are the implications of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da97548770724cf19c1b9ec68b75dc9b\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The tribunal\u2019s report appears to argue not that contemporary issues should reopen historical settlements, but that historical settlements should be reopened for this matter relating to royalties for Crown minerals. In other words, the Government needs to consider the tribunal\u2019s report further, because it appears to relate to historical settlements that have already been settled with the agreement of both parties. That is why the significance of this report is taking some time to work through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d24e15e6fe74ce48ef669834f2aab17\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with the Hon Margaret Wilson\u2019s comments that the tribunal has seen fit \u201Cto extend the jurisprudence in this area by creating a new concept of treaty interest\u201D; if she does agree with those comments, will the Government support the new concept of treaty interests; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b44a1b6b44c848f58e9bd7bcb2954eba\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Prime Minister does agree with the Hon Margaret Wilson\u2019s comments. That is precisely why we as a Government are taking time to consider the implication of that precise issue of what is meant by \u201Ctreaty interests\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d83521ee299444dac77ce5287bd606d\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: I return to my previous supplementary question to the Prime Minister and I ask about the criteria as applied in the national or public interest generally, not just petroleum\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d59da82bd9d47a2ade1135770d2386e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member is foreshadowing his question by a long explanatory statement about his previous question. He is there to ask a question, not to explain what he meant the first time around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292bd19c8122947a8837c50d8022a4406\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would like the member to come to the question. I am sure he can rephrase it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c056ade18727473f987e3fbba7411006\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: What criteria or factors are applied in the national or public interest test generally, and if claim settlements need not all be in the public interest, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250ba723424e4dfe9d3d585fcd0bf100\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that the \u201Cnational interest\u201D means \u201Cin the interests of all sections of the community\u201D, and it has been declared that Crown minerals are for the use of the whole community. Crown minerals have been assessed as having those criteria of being in the national interest in terms of their use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247af6b0d468a43bcbd0fd30a61ee0c0e\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister today rule out compensation for royalties, or for a share of ongoing royalties, being given by her Government to M\u0101ori claimants; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19821dbf2144ac78040559e72d04de7\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: It would be foolish to give an absolute assurance without an opportunity to consider the report totally and fully. Only a fool would do that, and this Government has no fools. However, as I have said, there is nothing that I have seen or been advised about that would lead me to believe that royalties should be paid in this instance, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d95850e07f34b87ad3d52b6104005be\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: If national interest factors mean that an expropriation can be made without compensation to those contributing to the national interest, what factors allowed the Prime Minister to decide to ask that the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 2) include ancestral and cultural landscapes, effectively nationalising from their owners, without compensation, parts of their land, in breach of article 2 of the treaty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224c4d6504c1244fbae36dab9f0e284c5\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: I fail to understand the direct relevance of that question to the subject matter of the original question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e0d8ff7d64f4db8a08a9f25f259b38c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002263a9c1886697450f9b117003e97c303b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263a9c1886697450f9b117003e97c303b\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek this opportunity, before the next question, to seek leave of the House to table a press release from the Minister for Ethnic Affairs, announcing the setting up of a language line interpreting service designed to help 300,000 immigrants with no, or limited, English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b3bab6708e4165b4e709dfa44ee688\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fe863650111470088e6fd4b35461cc4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea55000310a048e9b251742601e80206\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea55000310a048e9b251742601e80206\u0022\u003EROD DONALD (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a study by Ross Garnaut, Professor of Economics at the Australian National University, titled Australian Security and Free Trade with America, which concludes the claimed gains from a US-Australian free-trade agreement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222339294225aa4361a77fb9e88a57564a\u0022\u003EIndonesia\u2014Aceh Independence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733b4fcc791d423c93e41592e226297b\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What steps has she taken to seek an end to hostilities in Aceh, as the stated position of her Government is to see the Indonesian Government and the Aceh independence movement return to negotiations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffceb082e82e44af987bbcd78d07eee5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffceb082e82e44af987bbcd78d07eee5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Prime Minister: The Prime Minister has made clear that the New Zealand Government would like to see the parties return to mediation and negotiation. We believe that special autonomy remains a workable solution. These comments have been published in Indonesia and our embassy will be registering this position with the Indonesian Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a919fe31e240928e256d3a9cf03028\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister be making direct representations to President Megawati Sukarnoputri to stop the military assault in Aceh so that we do not have a repeat of the East Timor tragedy, where New Zealand Governments for many years failed to meet fully their responsibilities to a suffering people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213a27c7d31844739ace985e839d7289d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We do seek a negotiated solution, but there is a difference between East Timor and Aceh. Aceh has been part of the State of Indonesia from its formation; East Timor was conquered by invasion by Indonesia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df74250f94b04a5a8384a80738dbf616\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: In supporting the peaceful resolution of the dispute between the Aceh independence movement and Indonesia, is the Government committed to the territorial integrity of Indonesia\u2014not just there, but elsewhere, including West Papua?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229dc21ad0928462d99d684866c3afc14\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The West Papuan situation is similar to Aceh in that both have been part of Indonesia, but West Papuans seek a different relationship from the one they have at present. In both cases, the Government thinks that Indonesia should deal with its citizens on the basis of seeking negotiated solutions rather than military ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220244f5bb8dd34c2a9edcded51468c206\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister worried that Indonesian troops may violate human rights with impunity in Aceh because of the failure of Indonesia to bring to justice those commanders responsible for the atrocities in East Timor; and how will she be pressing Indonesia for adequate trials for those commanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243abf184e1734d0f9a79cfbcf03ecaef\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has made representations to Indonesia on both of those matters. Of course we deplore any atrocities committed by Indonesian military in Aceh, but, equally, we deplore any atrocities committed by the Aceh independence movement against other citizens of Indonesia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e31b52c479464cc8b77932122625f017\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c818250b073c4a24a9d279d6807c3d20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c818250b073c4a24a9d279d6807c3d20\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E I have a question for the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. His office advised me at 10 past 2 that he was on his way to the House. I assume he is still on his way to the House. I seek the leave of the House to postpone my question until after question No. 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234194475396847b89508b196afdebe96\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is. Please ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u0022528a5b4612f64d83a6211e9227bf15b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022528a5b4612f64d83a6211e9227bf15b8\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If the Minister is in the precincts of the House, surely there is an obligation on him to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f28bf5f9f634354965288a275a3b175\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have just been informed by the whips that the Minister is on leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u002235ca28a325224c7b91170f9044f47d96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235ca28a325224c7b91170f9044f47d96\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Given that there are two Associate Ministers of M\u0101ori Affairs, could we have some indication as to who will be answering this question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200086408c609440ea38a10b653d47fe0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will find out when he asks the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288553c95154e4805bbcc33a9d8151570\u0022\u003EQuestions\u2014Responsibility for Replies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222749417e3dd444aea37cad51f2735a81\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (ACT NZ)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Does he accept full responsibility for his replies to questions in the House and for the actions of his officials; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022 data-id=\u00224caf85f326cd42ac937968bcf5aca640\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224caf85f326cd42ac937968bcf5aca640\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE (Associate Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a5f9a60ed9248db93422e0868bdea19\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: In which case, has the Minister asked Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho\u2019s Chief Executive, Mr Trevor Moeke, for an explanation of the emails I tabled in the House on Tuesday; if so, what was the explanation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e955e2c93dcc42c58e52db0c81e68855\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: The matters addressed by Mr Rodney Hide are subject to an independent investigation. Closure of that investigation will occur this week. A report will be provided to Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho\u2019s board next week, and it will also be made available to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cea737aced0486d9e128859cd4c0ed1\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is the difficulty that this House has. The Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs answered a question on Tuesday in this way: \u201CI would encourage the member to provide me with that information, as I suggested ... , so that I can get to the bottom of any of those discrepancies. I assure him that I will do something about it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df5af73d7bdb48f8bfa6ac45a9062d46\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: He did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba023296f7141e4becdce069f93a47f\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is on top of the current point of order. How come it is OK for Ministers in this Government to interject in that way on a point of order, but it is not OK for anyone else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea50fc7645764a56a95b1c9285ec885b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not see who interjected. Had I done so, that person would have left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224bee5e29d274bee8e1e8f63831b331a\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: It was Tariana Turia. Does that help you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e02257e1dd7b4c558c0eabe2212bb8c8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has indicated that. I, however, would like the member to carry on. Anyone who interjects will be asked to leave straight away. I have already done that today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274f11c5d5d134a68a1d0a7b6c6a6bcbe\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: The report that this Minister was talking about has been under way now for weeks and weeks. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the emails. The Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs said in this House that if the emails are supplied to him, he will do something about it, he will look into it, and heads will roll\u2014and now he is waving about some report. How can we have any confidence in, or accountability from, the Minister when, firstly, he will not give straight answers, and, secondly, he will not turn up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bfdba898d1046c5b3db72dea35677f9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is criticism of the Minister, which the member is perfectly entitled to voice, but it is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968c7b1819194a3a9ad155ab4b714536\u0022\u003EMahara Okeroa\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have confidence in his officials?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f597baa581744b7991b8b98259c88ac0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to correct a perception that the House might have incorrectly taken from previous answers. We have absolute confidence in the leadership of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and will await the outcome of the investigation report that I have just alerted the House to. All questions have been answered\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a911f9b5ba41e485aabcef867feba9\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member cannot correct his answers in an answer to a question. If he has given answers before that have given us a false impression, he should seek the leave of the House to make a personal explanation. When I listen to him, I do not know which question he is telling us was wrong; I do not know which one he is correcting. I think he should make a personal explanation and say: \u201CThe answer given on yesterday\u2019s question No. 4, when I said so-and-so, was wrong, and what I should have said is such-and-such.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e0e11103094074b546780335e1c40b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not what the Minister said. I listened to the Minister very carefully; he said in case there had been any false impression given. That does not necessarily apply to any answer he has given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285540179c78a4f8e8713f1ba3fa23827\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: Just to conclude, and to clarify the matter completely for the member, all questions are answered correctly based on information available at the time. When further information subsequently arises, it is right that a member is alerted to the new information, and that is what has occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022584451969903456b849888561a0bea37\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs has stated that all these matters will be sorted out by an independent external review, which he told the House on 1 May would be completed the following Monday or Tuesday, which he told the House yesterday would be available next week, and which this Minister has just told the House will reach closure this week, can the Minister indicate which of these three answers is correct, or would he like to take the opportunity to provide a fourth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227607554bbb154c3b86576063c327fa51\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: The one I gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6843967d7694a17a385bd0c029aa61e\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that, in the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs\u2019 portfolios, thieves, liars, and fraudsters can so readily find employment at the taxpayers\u2019 expense, and is this the standard that he, as Minister, and his Associate Ministers are setting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e276e2b236004c6fa8ba6e66a5fb93e8\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: I was not aware that they were in the employ of the ACT party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e998c0f1decb46fc8e956f68d553916b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not an adequate answer. The member will give an answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d22c18ee87d488d852929294246c707\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: I await with trepidation, or otherwise, the response from the independent report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e915b1716da41bfb954028fb7ebcbc3\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It cannot be suggested that that addressed the question. He was asked a straight-out question about how thieves, liars, and fraudsters can be employed in his department, and he says he is waiting for a report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8bb7bdba1614f38ad3dce91530c5e84\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It is a perfectly adequate response, because the question contains an assertion that is the subject of the inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccc16b0edf9641f0818c47271d708ceb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is absolutely correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba274a31f7d454a9dd43fbe817cd54f\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a fresh point of order. We have been asking the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs for some time about the goings-on at Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho. As a consequence of earlier questions, an investigation was called for by Treasury and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and it has been delayed and delayed and delayed. However, new material has come to light, prompting further questions to occupy this House\u2019s time. The Minister\u2019s consistent response is to say that we should wait for the report, or that a report is being done on this. This House, and these Ministers, are held to account by Parliament. They cannot dodge answering a question, or reply to a question, by simply, from this day on, saying that a report is coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294c9b6fd44fe4042a9eb3e165a3308bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. It is common to ask for reports, and the Minister said one would be tabled shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226de7f1d9-7be9-468a-b27c-06000416b96a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220ca54b0f9ce425babf0d0f3a94b8c61\u0022\u003EHon JOHN TAMIHERE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the financial review report of the Audit Office briefing to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee with regard to Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92cb1ea30ee4ff0a2dfa6c9741de5a9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c17beda0ccb4c20917131c2f5ac9100\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to make sure that this is a report that has previously been tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220deeeeff6d1d4534af86721f069392ad\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022739ef4078d0e4c80bfb7519ae02f2a5d\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs\u2019 answer in Hansard of 1 May, and his answer in Hansard of yesterday, giving the two different answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278795927c1b943a0ada0fd5b52c5cb67\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those Hansard extracts. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022280d616519bb44b894737122c6226c27\u0022\u003EPharmac\u2014Dispensing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd031e4f8f349388f124aac3dcd3214\u0022\u003EDr LYNDA SCOTT (NZ National\u2014Kaikoura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does she agree with Pharmac\u2019s press release, on the change from 1-monthly to 3-monthly dispensing of medicines by pharmacists, that the proposal \u201Chas the full support of all district health boards\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8fa2f68e04042569bfd1e3db0c890d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8fa2f68e04042569bfd1e3db0c890d3\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Acting Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do agree with that statement. Pharmac\u2019s understanding was confirmed in a press release by Graeme Edmond, speaking on behalf of all district health boards, where he said that a proposal to change the way some medicines are dispensed by pharmacies is being welcomed by all district health boards, and I foreshadow tabling that document. I am further aware that at least one district health board, the Nelson-Marlborough board, is making a submission on the proposal. I have been advised that this submission does not oppose the proposal, but, of course, the board is most certainly entitled to make a submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f916ed8851bb42ef9114edab16575bc8\u0022\u003EDr Lynda Scott\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true that district health board chief executives were told not to pass on the information to board members and pharmacists, as alleged by Pharmacy Guild representative David Ross yesterday, when the Nelson Marlborough District Health Board voted unanimously to oppose the proposal; and does that not make an absolute mockery of the role of district health boards and their members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022288391a7394943a9a029978c67181b02\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be very surprised to know that the acting chief executive of the Nelson Marlborough District Health Board has confirmed that, for once, the Marlborough Express was incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278a26509b0d04f2db6bcac051394a9d4\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What are the benefits for district health boards of the Pharmac proposal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d7061d1e43a47f4b791de1e57c21391\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Pharmac is consulting on a proposal that would allow district health boards to invest an additional $35 million in improving health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271b0c8844f5b4c77976d9bb166f12efb\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read a submission from the Kensington Pharmacy, in Northland, that says the change to 3-monthly dispensing of medicines would have catastrophic effects on the populations of Northland, and force the closure of a substantial number of pharmacies; and what will she do if Pharmac bulldozes ahead with its proposal, and a substantial number of pharmacies in Northland and around New Zealand do close down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022714195190eb94ea5b66c3527b99fd794\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a matter of ministerial responsibility. Pharmac makes the decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab3cc935bbf44284a482cbc23253a9c7\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was what would happen if pharmacies around New Zealand were to close down. That is the Minister of Health\u2019s responsibility, not the responsibility of Pharmac.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cac042f9f22f4364a3f2b37be317ef1a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think the Minister could briefly comment on that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a2154bf9bed4d9dbae9ef4fd28e17c9\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not actually a Minister\u2019s responsibility whether any individual pharmacy in any part of the country closes, but the member will be well aware that not just the Minister of Health but probably all members of this House are very concerned to ensure that all New Zealand citizens have high-quality access to primary health services, including pharmacies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265eb4e4ab1534a699a8881722e39a548\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Hon Ruth Dyson in her previous answer said that she was not responsible for Pharmac\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f26eaf110a54ca3b3d1d0e35c0daf6d\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did not say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a211a21f23c49fb8876002ff4528d85\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, she did. Well, I want to make it very plain that she should have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203ed8d79b33a4aeb9666f5479246fe32\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I did not say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022555d04f4f7f34aa5af267f39f3f1e4c3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I was kicked out twice for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e97cbeaef2b42f4ae5997db3d048624\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I realise that. My problem with the Minister, who should not be interjecting on a point of order, is that this is her question; that is the reason I am allowing her to remain. As soon as her question is over she will leave. The member had better come to his point of order, because I myself certainly do not recall what he is claiming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229802a48b8fdd424ab36680ea54fdc45c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is, very simply, that it is not possible for the Minister of Health to say that she is not responsible for Pharmac, when it is very clearly the case that she is accountable in this House for Pharmac\u2019s activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bedf34fb086849d3b653360241dcb41a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1d51c893a1b4cfdb6c663a9db2e1f46\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is now, I think, the fourth time today that you have ruled that a point of order is not a point of order. I have been listening at times to question time, and we are now having at least a dozen points of order ruled out as simply not being points of order. At what point do people who raise points of order that are not relevant and are not points of order actually suffer some kind of penalty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f81ab06a8bd483dac1bff468c9c3fde\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will answer that immediately. I listen to points of order, because some members genuinely do have points of order, and I listen to them very seriously. I know, however, that there are points of order that are raised because they are political. I have raised them myself before I became Speaker. Yes, I did\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feccd3da4be8423b9923649d0d6fb230\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, very rarely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222226b2b86f984f54ae80b3d93a06e29b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very rarely; Mr Prebble, I agree with you. I just urge members that they should raise genuine points of order, and I take the spirit of the House that we do so, but I warn people that we do have to make sure that a point of order is a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d393897e55664b84a74c1b0ee3652953\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned about the ethical and legal implications of the timing of Pharmac\u2019s announcement, coming, as it has, after contracts with the district health boards have been concluded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc73406b76894df38211874c7bd735ab\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022773e6c1cbcc44baeabb23a420cd950be\u0022\u003EDr Lynda Scott\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by her statement in the House on 7 May that \u201C\u2026 a doctor can decide that they\u201D\u2014pharmaceuticals\u2014\u201Care to be dispensed every day, every week, or every month.\u201D; and, if she does stand by that statement, will pharmacists be paid a dispensing fee for every time they dispense a medication according to the doctor\u2019s orders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022325faca40b884426bea9675ae6e1ebfa\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question I say \u201CYes\u201D, and in answer to the second part I say \u201CNo\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee46e8520d314e6991e85b7a0b844130\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister inform the House whether Pharmac\u2019s consultation process has yielded a favourable response to the proposal from pharmacists; if not, do they have any recourse for their objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022447254e92a9d45bfa0219a1471f0d043\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not aware of the result of the submissions. The submission time has not closed yet, but that information will be made available, I am sure, by Pharmac at the appropriate time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f31b9535366428aac3f7ada97fc2026\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table a statement made by Mr Damien O\u2019Connor, an Associate Minister of Health, expressing his strong opposition to the Pharmac proposals in respect of stack dispensing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c20e7074d1a343ec908830e028d34a3b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a67c6f5af21459c88c956e5ba4e1360\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: As foreshadowed in the answer to the primary question, I seek leave to table the statement made by Graeme Edmond on behalf of all district health boards, welcoming the proposal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260791afdc5d742f6b8b7c74a222a4467\u0022\u003EDr Lynda Scott\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a press release from Pharmac stating that it is consulting on the proposal, which has the full support of all district health boards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a7484aaabc644c8b6120d3000b45b1c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e84461c851774c16a091eb56e7e2670c\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not clear. Was the Hon Ruth Dyson asked to withdraw from the Chamber at the end of her question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a83c9b2216b47338cd26639cae62210\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and she has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4ba95a2050847e5b75c3841409fff6b\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding was that one could be asked only to leave immediately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ff60ad617c64be89f6c2f2ca07c917f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is wrong. I have authority as Chair to do that. I thought it was important that she stay because she was answering questions, and members of the Opposition wanted to keep asking her questions. I judged that she should stay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002269f75020b9bf498f95d79094c04e56e7\u0022\u003EAgricultural and Horticultural Human Capability Strategy\u2014Government Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccde609ce2f14105a70ff8a10ab9c249\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (NZ Labour\u2014Otaki)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of CLAYTON COSGROVE (NZ Labour\u2014Waimakariri), to the Associate Minister of Agriculture: What support is the Government giving the agriculture and horticulture industries in developing an ag/hort human capability strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002289eff38f75d44f5c8b73c69b248d9795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289eff38f75d44f5c8b73c69b248d9795\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry has facilitated the establishment of a pan-industry governance group and working-group to oversee agricultural and horticultural industry responses to labour-skill needs. Five hundred thousand dollars of Sustainable Farming Fund money has also been allocated to support the initial implementation of the strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f3bb48f83ba43f5b9893d85ed3ecec7\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What is the scope of that strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe299bbfb16c4bce8518b90142dfea10\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The scope of the strategy includes on-farm and near-farm human capability. That means the objective is to improve the recruitment, retention, and skills of farm labourers, farm managers, and farmers, as well as the services they rely on, such as shearers, rural professionals, and researchers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9684c7f624496c83318bde405d4b6d\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister conscious of his own remarks yesterday in the Budget debate, and in his subsequent press release, when he said: \u201CMore than 80 percent of primary products grown here are exported. Getting into overseas markets at fair levels is hugely important for our farmers.\u201D; and does he think that the Minister of Agriculture\u2019s own comments in January this year, when he accused the United States of \u201Carm-twisting nations into backing a war with Iraq\u201D, are helpful for trade access?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9fc5f1fe5a844a8998f2954cd28befc\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand does rely on trade. That is why the Government committed about $17 million extra to facilitate trade negotiations in the next few years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b43806297b84fd9909c36b19500ac53\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002290567414b35c4f88869c6af3abd51f3c\u0022\u003EImmigration\u2014English Language\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227da10c0e973c4dae9397cec99395452a\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT NZ)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee: Will the committee sit during the upcoming adjournment in order to hear petitions waiting for a hearing, including that of Kenneth Wang, concerning the Government immigration changes; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u002272a75e5a905d49c7a6caf50a90c7c8ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272a75e5a905d49c7a6caf50a90c7c8ac\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Chairman of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The committee is not planning to sit during the forthcoming adjournment, because it is making good progress with all the work before it at present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216ae7635f83b4b5094d8ff717d44c624\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Given that this petition has been waiting for over 6 months, and that he as chairman could schedule the committee to meet on every single day of the adjournment, from 9 in the morning until 10 at night, does he not think that his committee should actually start doing its job, rather than bringing the committee and Parliament into disrepute by his failure to have the committee hear this petition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022427e4806e3b3433da57c7412c44a8936\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: At the start of this Parliament there were 46 petitions before the committee. A number of those have been dealt with. We are working through them in the order in which they were received by the committee. Many of the petitions that we have dealt with were before the committee long before this Parliament was even elected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223091ea234edd43ba96391f5aded470de\u0022\u003EImmigration\u2014English Language\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224316be97851846a29e85c44bcdebeb3b\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT NZ)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee: Will the committee either set down the petition of Kenneth Wang and others regarding the imposition of English language tests or seek to refer the petition to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee or any other committee so that it can be heard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022e78d22952701446a9c989bd3a3b76267\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e78d22952701446a9c989bd3a3b76267\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E The committee will be setting down a time at some point in the future to hear this petition, in line with the answer I gave to the previous question. It has no intention of referring it to any other committee, and I am not aware of any other committee that is seeking to have it referred to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f12b38bfee492e9c3bb0e5046fc6fe\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Is the House to understand that the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has decided not to refer this petition to any other committee, and that there is a 2-week adjournment coming up, but it has not even scheduled a single hearing; and how can the committee possibly justify its cavalier attitude towards this and other petitions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da57d713665b42299ad26ee701841976\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The House is to understand no such thing. The House is to understand the facts, which are that the committee is dealing with its business in an orderly way, in the order in which it is received. The committee is not going to oblige the ACT party\u2019s political stunt by advancing this petition just to suit Mr Wang\u2019s opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2536b8f30364cf0bd1b5cb3fd7a3f6e\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That answer was out of order. He is not in charge of the ACT party, and, indeed, it is news to me that committees decide to schedule business in the order that it is received. No other committee does that. What we actually have is a lazy committee, and a United Future party that goes out and says it is defending ethnic communities, but then actually does nothing, and whose leader will not even have the committee meet during the adjournment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u0022fae20666305a41cf892e1c7fd8675cee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fae20666305a41cf892e1c7fd8675cee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made a good point, but it is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b03b2b5449a14b6f99179c0457229dbe\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da49cc016a034e259f9a40b288018898\u0022\u003EQuestions for Written Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022573c9e2f95bb4744abc81d773b647786\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022573c9e2f95bb4744abc81d773b647786\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL (NZ National\u2014Rakaia):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your assistance in getting answers to written questions. I have four that are outstanding\u2014two to the Minister for ACC, dated 16 January\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda0067faf0a4284bab5ec81f422e3eb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member brings them to me, then as soon as I leave the Chair in a minute or two I will look into the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d37f5109a032484bad9f7aab23446384\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a38252357567476d907e1c2115a1b8bf\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000298\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 20 May on the Appropriation (2003/04 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022 data-id=\u002290192d7d597b464cb8fcd5b6b3e1aec6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290192d7d597b464cb8fcd5b6b3e1aec6\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ National):\u003C/span\u003E This is the final day of the Budget debate, and in about 2 hours and 11 minutes there will be a confidence vote in this House on the Budget. I want to come particularly to the role that United Future will play in supporting the Government in that confidence vote. But before that, I want to say that this Budget did nothing for growth. This Budget really backed up the Prime Minister\u2019s abandonment of growth targets. The Prime Minister wrote a foreword and signed it off for a document that had growth targets in it, yet now she cannot even remember writing that foreword. She now denies she signed it. We are told that probably she was not even conscious at the time that the foreword was sent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EAn interesting thing has happened today. Today the US trade ambassador came out with the statement that New Zealand has done some things recently that would make a free-trade agreement hard to carry in the US Congress. What are those things? What can they be? They can be the Prime Minister\u2019s gratuitous remarks about the Iraqi war. They can be the Prime Minister\u2019s remarks about snuggling up to a French-German, reaching-into-the-Chinese, sort of axis. Those comments, and her comments about how different the United States would be if Al Gore were President, have cost us New Zealanders the opportunity of a free-trade deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that on the day that that story broke, the Prime Minister could not be found. The media of this country were trying to track down the Prime Minister, who was obviously away from the House on urgent public business, for the seventh or eighth day of the 9 days of this session, and could not be found. I thought that Helen Clark was, by her own spin, the most available Prime Minister this country has ever had. She is the same Prime Minister who sprinkled her cellphone number like confetti around the press gallery. Those in the gallery who were chosen could ring her at any time of the day or night, and the phone was answered. That is amazingly good access to the Prime Minister\u2014except when she makes a mistake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EWhen the issue is probably the most major issue that this nation will face in the next 20 or 30 years\u2014that of not getting a free-trade deal at the same time as the Australians\u2014the Prime Minister is suddenly not available. Then, she is nowhere to be found, the cellphone does not work, her staff do not know where she is, and the media cannot find her. That is an appalling situation. That says to the groups in the community, to the innovators, and to the people working hard at creating jobs and producing goods for this country that the Prime Minister has sold them out and she does not care about that\u2014she is not available, and she is probably not conscious. That is probably why the media could not reach her; she was probably not conscious at the time. It is a tragedy for this country that we have a Prime Minister who cares so little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EIt is also a tragedy for this country that in about 2 hours and, now, 5 minutes, the United Future party will give its vote to Labour. Those members will to vote with Labour to keep Labour in Government. This is the same United Future party from which, yesterday, one MP\u2014I think he is an MP\u2014Mr Larry Baldock, issued a statement that the Government is raiding the petrol excise taxes, that that must stop, and that he is here to stop it. Well, I say to Mr Baldock that if he wants to stop that, he should not vote with Labour in 2 hours\u2019 time.  Let me give this House a prediction. My prediction is that Mr Baldock and the other United Future members will vote with Labour in a couple of hours\u2019 time, and his statement will be worthless. That statement has no credibility at all, and the public know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EWhy would the public support the United Future party, when they can have the real thing by voting for Labour? That is why the United Future party is in such trouble. I know that behind the scenes United Future members are running around, trying to ditch the Christian element and to bring some non-Christian people on to the board. They are trying to juggle things around and to roll out a few members of Parliament. I think that Mr Baldock is one of them. I think the other United Party members have seen through Mr Baldock. They realise just how silly he really is, in that he thought he could fool New Zealanders by going out there yesterday and saying it was outrageous what Labour was doing with Vote Transport\u2014but he would still vote for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EI say to Larry Baldock that Vote Transport suffered a cut in the Budget. There was a reduction in expenditure for that vote, and Mr Baldock obviously does not realise that. But if he had bothered to meet the mayors from the South Island who came up here to Parliament yesterday, he would know that. Was it not interesting that all the mayors from the South Island, the biggest delegation ever to come at one time to this Parliament to talk about roading issues, went and saw the Minister? They were not very happy. I cannot talk about what they said at that meeting, but they came and saw us, as well. Did they go and see Mr Baldock? No.  Were they interested in going and seeing him? No. They do not think that he will have any influence; he will not be here long enough to have any influence on roading policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E I say to Larry Baldock that he can redeem himself in a couple of hours if he chooses to vote for what he believes in. He either votes for what he believes in or he votes to keep Labour in power. That is the test. This will be the United Future party\u2019s first Budget vote in favour of Labour. From tomorrow onwards, it will be no good for Mr Baldock to go out there and tell the people of New Zealand that he is opposed to something, because he will have just voted for the programme, in total. He will have voted for the roading cuts, including the cuts in subsidies to the Tauranga District Council for the maintenance of its roads. That subsidy has been cut. Does Mr Baldock support cutting that subsidy? He does not move a muscle; he sits silent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EWell, I tell Mr Baldock that I have been in Tauranga. I have met the mayor and the people in Tauranga who are very concerned at that cut in roading. Not one of them expected Mr Baldock to lift a finger about that. I told them that they were wrong. I said he would lift a finger\u2014to support Labour. That is the only finger he will lift. He will not lift a finger for the people of Tauranga, to replace the roading money that Tauranga District Council is losing. But he will put out a statement that that is terrible and something must be done about it. He has been putting statements like that out for months. I say to Larry Baldock and the rest of the United Future party that there is a time in this House when members are judged by how their party votes. That time is nigh for the members of United Future. We will see then whether they will vote for growth and new initiatives that can get this country going, or whether they will vote with the Labour Government, a Government that has just botched up the free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EWe have a Prime Minister who spends less time in this House than any Prime Minister has ever spent in this country\u2019s history. She has been in the House twice in question time in the last 4 weeks. She got caned and kicked around in question time, and has not come back. Today no one can find the Prime Minister. Where is she hiding? Why is she hiding from the press gallery today? Why does she not climb out of her hiding place today and answer her cellphone? Why have the cellphone numbers that were spread around like confetti now disappeared? The Prime Minister is hiding because she has botched things up. She has ruined this country\u2019s prospects\u2014[Interruption] The Government member, before she lays an egg, should understand that the voters in Whanganui will not like a Prime Minister who has messed up that free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u0022cde2fd20d6e9450189788fb37b9366ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cde2fd20d6e9450189788fb37b9366ef\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E That speech was a leadership bid from a man who never gets to ask a question in this House, let alone will ever have the opportunity to answer one as a Minister, because he cannot even get a vote in his home town. He was beaten by Judy Keall and by Judy Keall\u2019s secretary; next he will be beaten by Judy Keall\u2019s housekeeper. That man could not fight his way to Australia, let alone\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8b439015c464ad5bfc52d5ae9897681\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think it is quite wrong to refer to Mr Hughes as just a secretary and a housekeeper. All members are honourable members in this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca6e9679f334e74a6d382897272b34d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8f591b8b304daf9918041b25244f7c\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: But I do not think that a member should bring another member into disrepute, just because that person happens to have been a secretary. It is not a profession that many males do, and I think the member should stand up for Mr Hughes, rather than criticise him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5da2189a37344d9a08116b64894e265\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d8dcc9cdb174b728eee4138c9776593\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: That man, who became apoplectic yesterday on the deep political importance of knitting in the House, should not talk about denigrating people on the basis of their gender. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EIt is truly pathetic to see that the National Party is not even able to put up a decent programme for government. We have National Party speakers saying we should spend more on immigration, education, and health. But what is the answer from the Opposition\u2019s spokesperson on the economy? He says the unemployed should line up at post offices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ed5e932bd2422f8d546dba0e9e9051\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: But National closed them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022863801cc91b84e3c9ad91c8b6e3f8abb\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: It closed the post offices, so that is a bit of a problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EIt is a great pleasure to stand and speak in this Budget debate as part of the Labour-Progressive Government, which is supported by United Future. This Government is working for economic growth, and improvements in education, so that we will have a successful and an innovative society. This Budget is about opportunity and security, which are the keys to success in a society. It is about keeping New Zealand safe. It is about promoting and protecting our environment, our culture, and our heritage. This Budget celebrates and confirms 4 years of economic and social progress in New Zealand, under a good Government that does listen to New Zealanders and does work in partnership with local government, with businesses, with iwi, with the community, and with the voluntary sector, rather than sneering at and deriding them constantly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EWe have seen, under this Labour-Progressive Government, 4 years of prosperity, of recovery of spirit and energy, of enterprise, and of innovation. There have been 4 years of planning and investment in the basics like health, education, housing, jobs, and exports, and of building infrastructure\u2014the physical infrastructure of roads, railway services, and public transport. There have been 4 years of innovation and investment in the human infrastructure in health, in welfare, in job training and apprenticeships, and in education and training. There have also been 4 years of investment in the environment\u2014in our physical environment, in our sustainable cities, in liveable urban environments where we focus on the needs of our young people, in the needs in terms of housing for the future, and in looking at issues like air and water emissions that cause sickness and death in this country. This is a good Budget, and it is a result of the Government having talked about the issues and listened carefully to people\u2019s views on what New Zealand is and hopes to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EThis Government has kept its word. We have clearly said what we stand for, and what our vision is as New Zealanders who are citizens in the world. We have had an important message for our people here at home, and for the world: New Zealand has always stood for an inclusive, tolerant, and just society where everyone gets a fair go. When we look at this Budget we see more New Zealanders are in work than ever before. We see fewer people of working age as beneficiaries than we have seen for many, many years. We see reduced costs for primary health-care, more security for superannuation, and more investment in secondary schools, in primary schools, in industry, and in small businesses. We see more training, with 5,102 people having taken up Modern Apprenticeships. The apprenticeship system was destroyed by Roger Sowry and the pathetic little bunch now over there on the Opposition benches, when Bill Birch and Ruth Richardson abolished it in the \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D. We have seen strong, stable Government with a responsible, careful, fiscal plan and a good Minister of Finance, a great Prime Minister, and a party of people who are determined not to get into the stupid, vicious, mean-minded, personal carping of those people in the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E I want to say, on a very personal note, that 10 years ago today I was diagnosed as having major invasive cancer. The public health system of this country\u2014the cervical-screening programme\u2014was the reason that that cancer was diagnosed. The service I received at Green Lane Hospital and at Wellington Hospital, in follow-up visits over the following 5 years, has been an extraordinary experience for me, as it is for every New Zealander who has a serious illness. I am proud of our health workers, just as I am proud of all those people in pre-schools, primary schools, k\u014Dhanga reo, kura, and universities who are providing those basic services that all New Zealanders need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI say to members of the Opposition that I made a major and life-changing decision when, after 3 years in this Parliament, I became a patient with cancer. I made a decision that I would spend my energy positively. I do believe that this is the greatest country in the world, and that it is an honour to inherit the vision, passion, kindness, and the services that our ancestors believed we needed in a civilised society. I watched with great grief for 9 years while those people now on the Opposition benches\u2014in the belief that if we cut back those services we could make people work harder\u2014destroyed the underpinning of the New Zealand welfare State. For me, the most important thing in this Budget is that this Government is making a commitment to New Zealand now and for the future, because we are the beneficiaries of the investment in services, in infrastructure, and in the young people of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EIt is very, very important to understand what makes a good society. It is my honour to be the MP for Auckland Central. I have worked very hard for Auckland all my life, and I am proud to say that this Government is working in partnership with local government. We have produced the Auckland regional economic development strategy, which is a fine strategy that looks at the combination of public services, housing, health, education, and job support that businesses and families need in order to build strong communities. I look at the astonishing progress that we have made with the provision of public transport. I look at the work that we have done to get \u201CSpaghetti Junction\u201D being developed and State Highway 18 being built, and also to get the Puhinui interchange and the North Shore busway. It is very exciting to see the progress that we have made in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI will finish by talking about some work that I have done with a man called Richard Florida who came out to New Zealand for the Catching the Knowledge Wave conference, where he said that the key fact of our age is that more of us than ever are doing creative work for a living. His basic argument was that access to talented and creative people is absolutely essential to modern businesses, and that those creative people want to live in, and are attracted to, tolerant, stimulating, energetic cities where they can get a creative life across their lives\u2014lives that lead to prosperity where highly skilled, creative people cluster. All the policies of this Government in our growth and innovation work, in our arts, culture, and heritage work, and in our industry and trade work, focus on that development of New Zealand as a creative, tolerant, inclusive place where people can work and live in the best possible way to the full extent of their ability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EThe role of creativity is a fundamental source of economic growth, and every time that I hear those people from the Opposition sneering at what this Government is doing for music, film, small businesses, industry, growth, and exports, once again I think that they have failed to understand the absolute basics of prosperity, of social cohesion, and of this country\u2019s heritage. It is our job to build a country that is tolerant and diverse, and that is open to and encourages creativity. That is where we want to live and that is where people\u2014we\u2014can make prosperous businesses with greater numbers of better-paid jobs and with higher-value exports. That is also why our voice will be respected internationally, whether it is on the matter of free trade, trade agreements, or the sort of society we and the rest of the world want to live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002215379780638047b08edfb1ba0ccc8564\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215379780638047b08edfb1ba0ccc8564\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (NZ National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E When there is a Budget that says nothing and does nothing, we get a Minister who says little and certainly does nothing about standing up to defend it. That is what we have just heard from the Hon Judith Tizard, one of the junior Ministers of this Labour Government. When I say one of the junior Ministers I say that expressly, because there are very few people on the Government side of the House who are not junior Ministers. Labour has 52 members of Parliament, and only five of them are genuine back-benchers. That is how Helen Clark clings to power; that is how she manages to stay as the queen bee in the Labour Party. She simply gives everyone in her caucus a bit of a job that gives them a little extra status and a lot more salary. That is Labour\u2019s recipe for staying in Government. I tell members that it will not work for long, because the cracks will soon show in a caucus that is traditionally as factionalised as the Labour caucus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI notice the new Minister, the Hon. David Cunliffe, sitting across on the Government side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b00c7f24b2d4868b2594b6d7071dfdd\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: Where is he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e6fe8ae9e3c4e73b91d7baebc051517\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: He has been here for 3 years. I would like to congratulate him on his appointment, but something inside me will not let that happen. When ministerial appointments are given out like confetti, as Helen Clark gives them out, then their value and their contribution to New Zealand are significantly downplayed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a1ab9a2009493a9b12c59bc33484c9\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: At least it wasn\u2019t on merit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221cb3af2eb014417888f0b4e384eac98\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague makes a very good point. At least the Prime Minister was bold enough to say that in appointing people to the ministry she was not doing it on a merit basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThat was a very, very strong leadership statement from Helen Clark, a leader who, in the last 24 hours, has gone into hiding. She is a leader who has just disappeared off the radar screen in the last 24 hours. Every day we receive Ministers\u2019 diaries, so we know where they are and what they are doing. Quite a few of them\u2014four or five, maybe\u2014are doing good, hard work for New Zealand each day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b08630b61e7948e6aa82731c79160b5f\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Name one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb3c6133551423d90c7fd4761d35a3c\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member not to challenge me. The Prime Minister has just disappeared today. I am worried that a sort of Bermuda triangle effect is starting to appear in the Beehive. We know that earlier in the day another Minister was on his way to the House to answer questions and he disappeared, as well. At 10 past 2 he was on his way to the House, and by 3 o\u2019clock he had gone; he had disappeared. That all points to a Government that came into the House last week touting a Budget with a massive surplus of some $6 billion, if the superannuation contribution is thrown in\u2014taxed out of the pockets of hard-working New Zealanders\u2014told everybody how good it was, and then, as soon as the going got tough, disappeared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003EAs soon as the going gets tough, Helen Clark gets going. She has disappeared and is unable to answer the questions about why the US trade secretary, Bob Zoellick, has said today that there are a few problems in the way of New Zealand getting a free-trade agreement with the United States. We know that the big problem is Helen Clark. We know that her attitude to the United States and to the Western World is the problem. New Zealanders will continue to pay dearly for this country\u2019s inability\u2014or, more importantly, the Labour Party\u2019s inability\u2014to secure a free-trade agreement with the United States. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders standing here today, man, woman, and child, are, when measured by our per capita wealth, at least $200 a week worse off than our counterparts across the Tasman in Australia. That is an extraordinary figure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221080039de3644f7381365de2d8148b5c\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228357df40910b45e6af4e2b20da0c73e8\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: At least $200 a week. In a city like the one I live in, that is a couple of hundred million dollars a week that New Zealanders are worse off by than the Australians are. That is why we have trouble funding everything we want to in education and in the health services. It is why we cannot get a single road built in the South Island by this Government for the next 10 years, and it is also why elderly New Zealanders have to huddle in those sorts of big sack blankets they buy from the Warehouse in order to try to stay warm this winter during the power crisis. People cannot even have a warm shower, and, what is worse, they cannot even have a quiet tipple with a bit of sherry without the Government having taxed the \u201Czeets\u201D out of that, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhy have we had a bland document like this Budget last week, touting how wonderful everything is, suggesting that New Zealand is in great shape, and that the Government is very capable and can do whatever it wants, when outside the Budget process we have had two major tax announcements on either side of the Budget? First there was the alcohol tax, and then earlier this week the announcement of the $200 million so-called reserve capacity electricity tax. New Zealand is being asked to fork out $200 million a year so that we can have some reserve generating capacity for electric power over and above the ordinary capacity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI have a simple question because, as many people will tell the House, I am a fairly simple fellow. New Zealand needs 150 megawatts of new electricity generation every year just to keep up with increasing activity in our economy\u2014increasing population, and more activity that requires electrical energy by way of new technologies, and other such matters. We need about another 150 megawatts a year for that. The Minister came into the House on the day that he announced this big tax and said that under existing conditions and pricing structures, and under the whole regime that we have in place at the moment, the generating companies are about to invest in 850 megawatts of new generation that will be available to us by 2005. But he then said he would still have to tax us $200 million to have a bit of extra capacity. The question is this: where does the ordinary increase in electricity generation that he talked about stop, and the new stuff start? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI would have thought that if we have electricity generation capacity, the best thing to do would be to run the lot\u2014reasonably, where we can\u2014and to produce the greatest amount of electricity, in order to drive the price down. Yet this Minister has said no, we are to have an upward price path for electricity, and the Government will ensure that, by taxing us to make it happen. When that extra capacity is needed, the Government will charge us even higher prices. That was in the Minister\u2019s press release and in all his public relations stuff around that release. That is no solution at all. I wonder whether the strange logic that says one can make New Zealanders more secure by taxing them harder came from the new \u201CMinistry for Innovative Thinking\u201D headed by the Hon David Cunliffe. At the moment the Minister shows no innovation in the energy policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe most irritating thing is that we now have Helen Clark, when she is available\u2014and conscious of what she is doing\u2014going to various radio stations and small newspapers around the countryside, and saying the Government did know that there would be difficulty this year because of the dry conditions, but it did not like to frighten the horses too early. Would it not have been so much better if the Government had acknowledged last January, when it was plain and clear that we would have a bad winter, that we should start to save a little electricity at that stage? It is much easier for older people, particularly those living on their own, to save electricity during the long summer nights, when there is a lot more warmth. No, we have a mean-minded Prime Minister who simply said the Government would just hang people out there and, when things became really tough, it would put the boot in and tax people so as to make them pay more, and, as well as the tax, it would then tell them to turn the electricity off, anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis Government does not have any idea of how to progress things for this country. Its members previously spent all their years in Opposition mired in the philosophies of the 1970s, because Labour was trying to escape the 1980s. Then, having sort of put in place one or two very minor things in the last couple of years, the Government has suddenly started to feel the wheels fall off the bus. When the Government reached its most desperate position, what did it do? It promoted David Cunliffe. That is the worst thing that could have happened to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u00224264a5efff5244ea82a6b7d4542d6c7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224264a5efff5244ea82a6b7d4542d6c7a\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E It is quite interesting that Opposition members say that we should be giving tax cuts. The Sydney Morning Herald, dated Tuesday, 20 May, asked its readers whether they wanted a tax cut. Twenty percent said they did\u201420 percent always take it\u2014and 70 percent said, no, that they wanted better services. That is what this Government is delivering. We are in touch with how people\u2014[Interruption] Of course, that group over there is having its own troubles. We had good old Roger Sowry making a speech, then Gerry Brownlee. They are competitors for the deputy leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E I tell Roger Sowry that he has almost gone. He is ineffective. I think Gerry Brownlee will get there. The other possibility is that Dr Brash will get there. However, one thing is certain: Bill English\u2019s time as leader of that party is really running out. The time for the brat pack has come and gone. Two of the brat pack have been demoted on the list, and Roger Sowry is hanging on for all he is worth. Of course, when he gets beaten by a young politician and is so comprehensively thrashed at the polls, members of his party know they cannot keep him there. They know it and he knows it. His day is coming. Do they want a different leader? When I was in the deep south, I talked to volunteer firefighters, who told me that they had not seen Bill English for a long, long time. They thought that was pretty good, and they are glad he has shifted to Wellington. They do not want him back down there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThe brat pack\u2019s days are gone. They resort to all sorts of tactics. Tony Ryall, the MP for the Bay of Plenty, said in the Whakatane Beacon on 13 May: \u201CRecently I wrote to the local community groups to let them know that the Government was planning to centralise in Wellington the distribution of money collected from gaming machines.\u201D Of course, it was not. If members had turned up at the Lotteries Grants Board this morning they would know that he was wrong. We passed the budget today\u2014but, no, they know that, and they are running around the countryside spreading what they know is untrue. They know that that is not a fact. Of course, people only do that when they do not have any hard information with which to attack the Government. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition does not get questions any more, and Mr Brownlee gets up on points of order so he can keep his face prominent. I think that is quite interesting. One after the other, he raises points of order that are not points of order, at all\u2014just so he can keep it there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI want to talk briefly about my own electorate, and then I will talk about the police. Manurewa is very lucky, because it has a member of Parliament who gets things for its constituents. At the moment we have a brand-new secondary school being built at Alfriston, which is costing somewhere between $17 and $18 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a98f7210f9e14f84be83be2844a03120\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s it called?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb008de55877450e84356a18a2cd0429\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It is Alfriston High School. There is probably a job for Mr Brownlee there, teaching woodwork, if he would like to return to teaching\u2014although we do have fairly high standards and he probably would not get the job. However, Manuwera High School has a new technology block. James Cook High School has a new block being built. Manuwera Intermediate has new construction, worth $2 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0f0e662821e4cd4a9be47de1382f72e\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: What about the police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cf65faf7c4e4c0da839ede1c53e325b\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We will talk about the police in a minute. We are just getting on to the good news. We have a centre for young criminals being built\u2014young criminals that other communities in this country do not want in their patch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214038a67cc4546619a8c40d4cceb4b04\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: Who approved it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf39a3a47cf458dbc03b646eec82960\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Government approved the siting of it. That failed National Government, as it was, could not get a site for the centre, but we have been able to. We will also have the women\u2019s prison there, because we take our responsibilities very seriously. We are getting two new fire stations and another new police station, and I will tell members a bit about that in a minute. The people of Manurewa are very, very happy, which is pretty good. They are pleased that they are now in a primary health organisation, because their doctors\u2019 bills are going down. Instead of paying $35 or $40 to go to the doctor, they are now paying $15 to $20\u2014and boy that is money in people\u2019s pockets! People can now go to the doctor and not worry how to pay for it. That is really good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EOne of the real sad things is the way members of this House are targeting the Asian community in terms of crime. I am very proud of the Asian community. Yes, there are people in that community who commit crime, but it is proportionate to the general population. Generally, they are law-abiding people\u2014but not always, and there are high profile crimes that do get noticed by members, who then play on them. I think New Zealand First members do so for political reasons, so that they can make a point about the Asian community. They also do it in the areas of immigration, and law and order, and that is an absolute disgrace. But the good news is that crime is being handled really well in this country. Gone are the days of 1996 when there were 477,596\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022971a404e23f84522aa31d4a26c5e6eb7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222894ea5018d24e76bd4b8efa62c3ee44\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I will repeat it: in 1996, the number of crimes reported to the police was 477,596. In 2002, 440,129 crimes were reported to the police. That is a significant drop of some 30,000 crimes. Yet we have people in ACT talking about parking tickets. They even talk about speeding tickets. Their leader got upset that 100 tickets were given in Taihape in 1 day. The fact is that the community wanted the police to work for them and clean up the speeding problem. That is really good news. Roading police in New Zealand do an excellent job. The highway patrol\u2014something that this Government brought in\u2014is having a real effect. The road toll is on a downward trend. The highway patrol is doing a good job. Everyone around the country sees those highly visible cars and knows what is happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThis Government is also really looking after Auckland. There are some 74 English police officers in training in Porirua who will be going to Auckland, along with a whole pile of New Zealanders, including some Asian people, who are training to be police officers. There are large numbers of M\u0101ori, Pacific Islanders, and women in training. That is the police force changing, and mirroring the whole community, and it is something that this country has long awaited. We as a country are lucky to have a commissioner like Rob Robinson, who is doing a fine job and who realises that police must reflect the community they work in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EVarious districts are working in cooperation with each other. The other night 170 police were out after boy racers and cleaning that situation up. Of course, when that happens, we see the members opposite whingeing and moaning, as they are now. The members on the front bench opposite whinge and moan because they do not have anything to offer. People have told us that they have been able to get some sleep at night now that the \u201Cboy racer\u201D bill has gone through. I congratulate Clayton Cosgrove on his efforts in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00226fc28478de6f4e2f9ac2a6ad1bc792fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fc28478de6f4e2f9ac2a6ad1bc792fb\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (NZ National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Is not what we hear from the hapless George Hawkins remarkable? He cannot even get his police and crime figures right. Let me ask the Minister which Government was in office in the 4 years he quoted\u20141996-2000. I have news for the hapless Minister. It was the National Government. We were very pleased that he acknowledged our success in crime reduction. I guess he had to do that because, in the last 4 years, violent crime has gone up. He knows it. He cannot account for it, so he would sooner talk about our success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe other thing one has to remind the Minister of\u2014and that was a good illustration\u2014is the reason he is losing ministries. Everyone knows that during the leaky homes crisis, this Minister did not just preside over the scandal; he himself was the scandal. That is extraordinary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec560c4007c40d399f06072e52419ed\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: He tried to cover it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276c2f6796cca4e648465cbc0bb445e30\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. What New Zealand is facing under this Government is a foreign policy train-wreck. Who is in charge of the foreign policy train wreck? It is the Prime Minister herself. She is the driver, and she is driving this country down. We could hardly be in a worse position. Australia is going to get a free-trade agreement next year, and New Zealand is not. Those were the simple facts given to us yesterday by the Americans themselves, and no amount of sophistry from the Minister this afternoon can cover up those facts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIt has been said that New Zealand could gain $1 billion in extra trade. The worst of this is that we will lose trade. Farmers up and down the country know full well that their sales of beef and dairy products will be reduced because American buyers will now have the opportunity to buy from Australia. Why on earth would one buy from New Zealand when one can buy the same product more cheaply from Australia? So when the Minister of Finance talks about a 2 percent growth rate next year and an increased unemployment rate, he is telling the truth. Things are getting worse under Labour\u2019s jurisdiction. That will happen even more, because of the loss of that free-trade agreement. That is the price of Government incompetence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EHistory tells us the real story. I shall go back to 6 months ago. In November, New Zealanders were optimistic about a free-trade deal. We had been described as a very, very, very good friend. Straight after the first resolution on Iraq, back in November, New Zealand announced the deployment of a frigate, an Orion, and a Hercules in Operation Enduring Freedom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e80f3e7f21634490857932ff5503bfb9\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: Did they ever get there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c332f836c749af91221db6944fe092\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: They did. Coincidentally, just 2 days after that announcement Robert Zoellick wrote to Congress saying that the United States was going to start negotiations with Australia, and he asked whether New Zealand should be included. He was asking Congress\u2019s opinion as to whether it would like to include New Zealand, because it had been seen that we were doing something OK. Real commitment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e171bf6607c847d8b28c03251c7d1a39\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: On the doorstep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5edbdbd65e24d2aa0049fad7ca99095\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: We were on the doorstep. That is what one gets from good relationships: security, trade, and prosperity. The Government seemed to understand that. It was making the moves. What has happened in the last 6 months? Frankly, Helen Clark blinked. What did she do as we got closer to war? The first thing she did was to say that we would not support the second resolution. This is a Government that told the United States, Britain, and Australia to go to the UN. They went to the UN, but when they asked for help from the UN, what did our Government do? We did not just say \u201CNo\u201D in New Zealand; we had to instruct our ambassador to the United Nations to go along and make the point that New Zealand could not possibly support Britain, the United States, and Australia in the UN. We had to oppose them. We were proud, in the eyes of Helen Clark, to align ourselves with France.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229205ef31e9164a1ca6f2fcb9bb473d11\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t she just keep quiet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227839c1feeb6c4336b1961b8c16a89062\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she not just keep quiet? It is a pretty logical thing, is it not? As a matter of good faith, our friends and allies had gone to the UN, and we turned our backs on them. When the war started, the military expert, known as Helen Clark, decided it was bleedingly obvious that the war was going badly and that if only her good friend Al Gore had been President, things would have been OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cacd3ee453d4b42992127e7d66303a7\u0022\u003EHon Roger Sowry\u003C/span\u003E: That was popular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263cedb248725454ebc12f43b0e311bad\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: That was really popular. She was asked to apologise. She apologised\u20143 days later. Did she apologise for what she said?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022313ab9eded77487fbe4567a3eeadefab\u0022\u003EOpposition Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc71fd969124d40b135530e00bb1011\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: No. She did not apologise for what she said. She was asked in question after question for 2 consecutive days to apologise. Did she apologise? No. She apologised only for the offence taken. The Americans were saying it is not a very good situation, and one would think at that point that a little bit of a lesson might have been learnt; after all, Robert Zoellick had this to say on 19 March\u2014and I want to quote this because it is important: \u201C ... there\u2019s not many times that a country like the United States has to ask for help from others. And when we do, it matters when friends stand by us, so we thank you for that, we appreciate it.\u201D He said that to Australia in relation to a free-trade agreement. The lesson could hardly be clearer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWhat was our response? Well, the Prime Minister went to Europe, and decided to add a little bit extra, just in case the point had not been fully received. This is what she said in Europe: \u201CWhat everyone\u2019s looking at is whether there is going to be a Franco/German/Russia link-up with good links through to the Chinese against what we have which looks like a small Anglo/American group\u2014it shifts the whole dynamic.\u201D She said that after the war had been won\u2014and no one could even work out who had won the war at that point, so that was really foot-in-the-mouth stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ESo what have been the consequences of that stunning diplomacy? Six months ago we were in line for a free-trade agreement. We were at least on the doorstep. We now know what 6 months of diplomacy has done. When asked whether New Zealand would be linked into an Australian-US free-trade agreement, Robert Zoellick said: \u201CThat is not my present expectation.\u201D Members should remember that this is a man who, 6 months ago, was asking to include New Zealand in the free-trade agreement, and today he is saying \u201CNo\u201D. We know that the cause of that is Helen Clark, because when he was asked why that would be the case, he said that America was disappointed by recent actions by New Zealand\u2014and I guess he was not thinking of George Hawkins when he said that; he was probably thinking of the Prime Minister. On this side of the House we have been saying that as long as Helen Clark is Prime Minister of New Zealand there will be no free-trade agreement with the United States, and today the Americans confirmed precisely that fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c8d98ec338f4976b516d5e8354ea5b5\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Vision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222143c6cce58d42d7afbe74350053ff84\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: This is what I have to say to the senior Government whip, when I hear him say the word \u201Cvision\u201D: all New Zealanders will pay the price for the Prime Minister\u2019s foolishness in lower living standards, fewer jobs, and shattered relationships. To quote Helen Clark herself, she is no longer conscientiously working hard to look after our interests. She is driving a train-wreck. It is time to change her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e17eab2a9cdc4165950b82931b82bd81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e17eab2a9cdc4165950b82931b82bd81\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON (NZ Labour\u2014Manukau East):\u003C/span\u003E I offer warm Pacific and Asian greetings from my electorate of Manukau East, which is an electorate that has 165 different ethnic groups residing within it, making for a rich tapestry of cultural vitality, energy, and excitement. It is an area that I am proud, pleased, and glad to represent\u2014whether it be Papatoetoe, Otara, East Tamaki, or Howick. Manukau is often seen as the face of the future, which was a designation given to it by the former Governor-General, Sir Paul Reeves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EUnaccustomed as I am, as Assistant Speaker, to taking a call in the debate\u2014because I believe in the convention of non-partisanship\u2014it has become necessary today for me to vacate the Chair. It is therefore a pleasure to speak in support of our Government\u2019s Budget. As an electorate member of Parliament, firstly for Papatoetoe for 9 years, and now, in my third term, for Manukau East\u2014which includes Papatoetoe\u2014I have witnessed, and been part of, many Budgets in this House. Some have been good, and others not so good, but, then, that is the nature of politics: what goes round comes round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e325c1ebdfdd4c1dbcc120604bb98d8b\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: What was the best one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240fa312bf2954119832fa5d984fdafac\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Hide that I would not like to say, because it might backfire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EMy interest and training has always been in the commerce area, particularly in productivity, human resource management, and small business, and the Government has done well in those areas by implementing a growth and innovation framework for business, which is an area that can be a legacy for this nation and for this Government. That is the way forward in terms of creating an innovative, dynamic, and growing economy, which has been inspired by the leadership given to the business area by the Government, but I want to talk about that a little bit later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EIn my electorate my interests have been education, health, and housing. Why? Because Manukau East is a microcosm of New Zealand today and into the future. In that electorate we have the most challenging areas and the most successful areas. We range from decile 1 schools to decile 10, from the low-paid to the millionaire. It is an area that truly is a microcosm of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe Government is keeping its word, and I want to mention four particular areas in which it has done so. Firstly, I will discuss employment. There are now more New Zealanders in work than ever before. There has been an increase of more than 132,000 since December 1969.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f8d7625f6c84ed884ab5f6e662cfc90\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member count himself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb4e99f9e9164ea29a279fc354278579\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I ask Mr Hide to please not interrupt; a payback time will come when I am up the top there. When we have people in work, it provides them with security, a sense of well-being, and the opportunities to go forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe second very important area in which the Government has kept its word is in reducing the cost of primary health-care through the 34 primary health organisations that have been established throughout the country. My colleagues who represent the area of south Auckland, the honourable Mark Gosche, the Hon Taito Phillip Field, and the Hon George Hawkins, well know the problems that we face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe third area is education. The Gateway programme for secondary schools and industry will benefit work-based learning. In the Manukau East area we have Otahuhu College, in which Mark Gosche has been working; Sir Edmund Hillary Collegiate Senior School, with principal Robin Staples; Tangaroa College, with Mike Leach, where I have been working; and new ones this year that have come on board\u2014James Cook High School in Manurewa, Mangere College, and Papatoetoe High School where the principal, Peter Gall, has been doing outstanding work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe fourth area is Modern Apprenticeships. There were more than 5,000, as at 31 March this year, and the scheme is on track to reach the target of 6,000 by December 2003. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe Government has kept its word in those four areas. It has made the commitments, it has made the promises, and it has delivered. As a member of this Government, I am pleased and glad that we have been able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EI turn now to implementing the growth and innovation framework. I very strongly believe that that is an area where we can really do something in this country. We live in a globalised world. We need to be good at what we do, we need to niche market, and this programme, put in place by the Government, can certainly lead us in that direction. The initiatives include $140 million over 4 years for research, science, and technology, which are absolutely vital\u2014any good business person will say that. There is $73 million over 4 years to promote overseas trade\u2014again, another absolutely essential ingredient for us to remain internationally competitive. There is $19 million for the pre-seed accelerator fund, which is for projects that have moved beyond eligibility for grant-funded research, but which are not yet at the stage where they might attract venture capital or other forms of private sector financing. It is a step up, and we are providing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThere is also $6.4 million to increase the highly successful business incubator programme. We say to the House that those incubators are really good. The Icehouse incubator in Auckland has been really successful. I graduated in business studies last week from Massey University, and the Icehouse was one of the incubators that I researched for my graduation. It really brought home to me just how much work goes into the incubation system, and into the funding that the Government has provided in order to provide a way forward and a pathway for our young, innovative, creative entrepreneurs who want to go somewhere. That is a very important programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThere is $110 million over 4 years to respond to the recommendations of the task force on biotechnology, design, screen production, and information and communication technology, which are areas where the Hon Steve Maharey has been most instrumental. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThere is $1.84 million in 2003-04, and $960,000 in each subsequent year, to support the small and medium-sized business sector. That is my favourite\u2014I love the small-business area. It is the engine room of growth, often referred to as the locomotive. That is where employment can be created, and it is where people do so much\u2014often on the smell of an oily rag. Everything goes into the business\u2014even the kitchen sink\u2014but small-business people are toilers and battlers, and in some cases I do not know how they survive. It is because of the entrepreneurial spirit that they have that they work and continue to do so. Under this Budget, those people have something to look forward to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EAnother initiative is the $200,000 a year for a 2-year pilot programme to establish an employment relations and occupational safety and health advisory service for small and medium-sized enterprises, and $9 million over 4 years for a mediation service. Human resource management is absolutely crucial in the development of intellectual capital within our small-business sector, and we need to ensure that management has that expertise in order to bring out the best in its employees. There is $9.825 million over 4 years to improve the calibre of senior management in the State sector. If the State sector runs harmoniously, and if we have professional, well-trained management, it makes the job of being the Government so much easier. It is important that we continue to improve the calibre of senior management, because there is always room for improvement. One of the things that happens with productivity is that there is always a better way, and it is the same with management. We need, and should continue, to upgrade and upskill ourselves; and that has to be a good programme, both for the Government and for senior management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EAn additional $1.504 million has been allocated for the Pacific Business Trust. Representing the area of Otara, which is one of the most challenging, I never cease to be amazed at how versatile some of our Pacific Island families are. I have to go to the Otara market every Saturday. I usually sell raffle tickets to raise funds, but in doing that, I see the vitality of that market, which was initially organised by Pacific Island people. Originally, it was all Pacific Island people, but now we have a lot of Asian and other nationalities competing there. They all want to work together, and the Pacific Business Trust is a way of helping more people into business. I commend that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThere is $15 million over 3 years to promote New Zealand tourism in the USA, which is another key growth industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThere are so many things that I could go on about, especially in the health and education areas, but I realise that my time has come. I want to thank the House for the opportunity to speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00221609319cc91e4de2a325c05e51e1734e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221609319cc91e4de2a325c05e51e1734e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (NZ National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E This was a Budget of disappointment and lost opportunities, and in no area is that more so than in the area of education. I had great expectations, given all the spin before the Budget, that there would be some meaningful initiatives in that key area. But the more I have looked at this Budget, the more I think that the education sector and the people who have a passion for the next generation will be bitterly disappointed. I want to concentrate on a number of the announcements, because I can now see why this Government has such a strong interest in ensuring New Zealanders do not have basic numeracy skills. There is in this Budget, I have to say, one con job after another, in respect of the spin not matching up to the substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI come to the first great release in this Budget from the Minister of Education. He said we were to have a major boost to literacy in this Budget\u2014a major literacy bid. And I thought that was good, because I was ashamed, as a New Zealander, to read the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study released last month, which showed that New Zealand\u2019s results were second to the bottom in the English-speaking world. So when the Minister announced there would be a major new literacy initiative, I had the hope that we might do something to address that key issue. And what do we have? We have $15 million over 4 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIf people do a little mathematics\u2014I know Government members may struggle to do so\u2014they will find that that works out to less than $4 million per year for the 380,000 students in years 1 to 8 that it is meant to help. That works out at 18c per student. I ask the House, and particularly the Government members, whether we really think we will be able to lift the literacy standards of New Zealanders and get this country back to where it was 30 years ago, at the top of the league tables in terms of literacy standards, with the 18c per student funding that is in this Budget. If that is not a joke, I do not know what is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the Government is even to spend more money on treaty education than on literacy. Rather than teaching our young New Zealanders how to read and write, this Government is to put more money from this Budget into treaty education\u2014political correctness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc82cea8-c84d-4ab7-8597-31916dbedc43\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227394dd3342045e8854cdede1a3e1d02\u0022\u003EEdwin Perry\u003C/span\u003E: $6.5 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffffc662b607439caaebff1bf4108007\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: $6.5 million. I ask the member who interjected\u2014a M\u0101ori member\u2014whether that money would not be better put into basic literacy and numeracy skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc82cea8-c84d-4ab7-8597-31916dbedc43\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac6e17d4816404cbdc625929593bba4\u0022\u003EEdwin Perry\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209d1797e987e42ad85b771c36953f97e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CHear, hear!\u201D he says, and he is right. Members on the Opposition side of the House say that putting money into the basics like literacy and numeracy should far exceed the sort of political correctness that is to be stuck down the throats of New Zealanders with the proposed $6.5 million for treaty education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, anybody who is involved in secondary education will know that it has been a huge struggle for schools to meet the costs of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA). In fact, we had an Education and Science Committee inquiry into that, and the unanimous recommendations of the committee were that schools needed some funding and resources to be able to implement that new qualification. So when I looked in the Budget I thought, yes, maybe the Labour members of the select committee, the Government, or the United Future party had been able to recognise the huge extra costs that there are. We heard at the select committee that the cost of implementing the NCEA would be about $50,000 for an average-sized secondary school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen I looked in the Budget at how much money had been allocated for schools to implement that qualification, I saw it was $1.8 million. That works out at less than $1.80 per student per year. Does anybody in this House believe that less than $1.80 per student will meet the costs to secondary schools that have come about because of the implementation of the NCEA? Does any member of the Government believe that that is true? That sum is less than 1 percent of what was estimated in the evidence to the select committee inquiry into those costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut megabucks are being provided for the bureaucracy. While the schools receive $1.8 million, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority is being provided with $36 million. That is the same authority that, over two years, has doubled the NCEA fees met by parents. So the Government members are saying there should be megabucks\u2014$36 million\u2014for the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, and $1.8 million for schools. Does that not speak volumes about how the Government is investing in its bureaucrats, and saying \u201CStuff the teachers and the students.\u201D That says so much about this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen I saw a bold announcement in the Budget that all 15 to 19-year-olds are to be in education by 2006. Is that not an interesting year to choose? It is just after the next election, so that the Government cannot be held accountable. Well, before I will believe that this Government can get all 15 to 19-year-olds into education, I say let us get all those children into education who are required to be there by law. We know that 4,048 students were reported as long-term truants last year. That is a tragedy. There are another 7,407 students on the Correspondence School roll because they have been expelled from school. Does anybody in this House believe that a student who has been expelled from school\u2014in some cases, from multiple schools\u2014will receive a meaningful education by mail? I believe not; it is a joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIs there anything\u2014is there a penny\u2014in the Budget for dealing with that truancy crisis? There is not one bean or one dollar. In fact, over the last 4 years the funding in real terms for the truancy services provided in this country has been reduced by $3.8 million. I ask this Government where its priorities are. It should not tell us that it will get all 15 to 19-year-olds into meaningful education when it cannot even meet its legal obligation to ensure that all those of school age are, in fact, at school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen we come to the bold announcement that $61 million extra will be provided for schools\u2019 operating grants\u2014the subtext is that that is over 4 years. Is that not a great trick? The Government must believe that New Zealanders cannot do maths, with those sorts of sums. The rate actually works out at 2 percent. What is the Government\u2019s official inflation rate for the last year? It is 2.5 percent. So what does that mean for the funding in our schools? It means they are going backwards. At a time when we have a $4 billion surplus, real funding for schools per pupil is being cut, and I say that that is a shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E I also want to refer to some of the local con jobs in this Budget. The Minister of Housing stated in the local newspaper in my electorate on Monday that there was a solution to the biggest constituency issue in my area, the huge 35 percent increase in housing costs over the last year. He stated that all the answers were in the Budget. He stated that the Government had great new housing initiatives and would be providing $69 million for community initiatives, so that local government and iwi organisations may be able to provide housing. It sounded pretty good, and the local branch of the Labour Party said it sounded fantastic. Well, let us look at the detail. We can see it is spread over 4 years. That works out at $16 million per year. If that is divided amongst 76 local authorities, it means my area will get about $180,000. That is one house! I have 169 people sitting on waiting lists in Nelson. Does that mean it will take this Labour Government 169 years to provide houses for those people in my electorate? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b24c4f16f3b45b7a26853b08144c35b\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: How many houses did that member\u2019s party sell in Nelson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ae225f4c5ba467bb7665f3e749d306d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed. In fact, I have a letter. \u201CMr Benson-Dope\u201D says he was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba87b28317e4fcfac271bc6a0b027a3\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u0022298546fd229c41b3b01df72570f0b83d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022298546fd229c41b3b01df72570f0b83d\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E He must have been a very difficult fourth-former, that young boy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6888c8e6f947db85a059db7fef4a60\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: He was not as bad a pupil as you were a teacher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ea6a587a9d94fafb506427abbc7efb0\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: I remember many of the people who taught Mr Hide, so I would not go down that road too fast, or too far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI rise to support this stable, well-balanced Budget. In the address I wish to make, I want to cover a number of issues: New Zealand overseas aid expenditure, some environment expenditure, some work in the area of adult education, and the advantages to Wellington. In terms of New Zealand aid overseas, the interesting problem we face is that we were party\u2014as was almost every other country in the world\u2014to signing up to the millennium goals. Those goals set out quite strong targets for the provision of clean air and water to the peoples of the world; the provision of sanitation, so that children do not die of diseases caused by lack of adequate sanitation; and the provision of literacy around the world. It was recognised that those goals would be met only if we all pulled together. The goal was that by 2015 the countries of the world would each provide 0.7 percent of their gross national income. New Zealand is producing only 0.23 percent, so we are a long way from meeting the millennium goal of 0.7 percent of gross national income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EJust recently, a piece of research was done on world aid programmes, listing the countries in order. Normally one would expect to see a country like Norway, which gives out 1 percent of its gross national income to aid, near the top of the list, but it ended up 11th.. New Zealand was fourth. That is because New Zealand has an extraordinarily high record in the intake of refugees, and our record in terms of trading with developing countries is equalled by almost no other country. Then comes our direct aid overseas, which, I have to admit, is not all that great. It is nearly 12 months since we established a semi-autonomous agency, NZAID, within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We met the desired needs as we restructured and looked at where we were going. We said we needed to concentrate on our near neighbours in the Pacific, and on the elimination of poverty. We have met that goal, one step at a time. In this Budget we have increased our overseas aid by 9 percent, with $20 million extra a year going in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EWhy the Pacific? The Pacific has some of the most appalling pockets of poverty, and we ignore that at our peril. There is self-interest in aid, and I am always upfront about that when I talk overseas. New Zealand operates in partnership with the countries to which it gives aid. We do not give countries what we determine they ought to have; rather, we work with them to determine what they might want in terms of health and education. Papua New Guinea has some of the worst statistics. It has the lowest standard of living of any country in the Pacific, the lowest average life expectancy, and the highest maternal and infant mortality rates. In the Solomon Islands, only 500 jobs are available each year for the thousands who leave school. Over 16 percent of people living in Kiribati are not expected to survive to the age of 40. In Vanuatu, more than 66 percent of adults are illiterate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThat is what New Zealand aid work is about. It is about working with Papua New Guinea, the Solomons, Kiribati, Vanuatu, Fiji, Samoa, Niue, the Cook Islands, and Tonga\u2014devising programmes so that the children get into schools, so that diseases like TB, malaria, and HIV/AIDS are tackled, and so that women and young people in rural areas get a chance to earn a living. Working with AusAID and the European Union, we have a major regional initiative to develop basic education across the entire Pacific. It is called PRIDE. We work to create opportunities for peace in the Pacific, particularly in Papua New Guinea and the Solomons. Members know the relative success we have had in Bougainville. We do not want more Bougainvilles, because that is more cost to us as a country. That is why 45 percent of the new funding will target governance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EBut New Zealand aid does not focus exclusively on the Pacific; we also have significant programmes in Asia and smaller programmes in Africa. In this Budget, we have also put aside a further $10 million, if it is needed, to help rebuild post-war Iraq. That is on top of the funding we have already given to that country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EFinally, I am pleased to announce that we are increasing the funding for non-governmental organisations in New Zealand\u2014our very good partners who are often in the front line of delivering aid to some of the poorest areas in the world. Some of those partners are organisations such as Rotary, which has been out there raising funds. We have met Rotary dollar for dollar, and more, in its worldwide work to defeat polio. I am proud of that 9 percent increase. I am proud of the extra $20 million that we have given to NZAID. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EIn the area of the environment, the one I particularly want to mention is increased money\u2014$1.8 million over 4 years, or the $450,000 a year that was asked for\u2014to support the New Zealand Landcare Trust. That trust, which is made up of eight groups, including Federated Farmers and Fish and Game New Zealand\u2014who work together in the same room, which is always interesting\u2014and Rural Women, has done extraordinary work with the rural community, particularly on the question of biodiversity on private land. For instance, there was an absolute explosion from Banks Peninsula farmers over defining significant natural areas. Landcare Trust worked with the farmers and the Ministry for the Environment, and together we found some money whereby we could actually work with the farmers to put up fences at the top of Herbert Peak, so preserving some of the flora and fauna there. It was not the rabbits that we were preserving. I am delighted to announce that extra $450,000 a year for the New Zealand Landcare Trust. When I became the Minister for the Environment, the trust had begun receiving that money on a year-to-year basis. We then asked it to go out\u2014and it went, I think, to Transfund and got money from there. We have now said that that money is permanent, it is baseline, it is in there. The trust has done really good work in terms of working with the community, particularly in the area of biodiversity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003ERegarding adult and community education, I heard the previous speaker talking about illiteracy in the community. This Government is the first to ever acknowledge the fact that with many people in our schools we have failed, and that they need to be given, and supported in, second-chance education. We have called that both adult and community education, and foundation education. Part of the problem is that in adult and community education, there is a whole range of providers. I can go to some towns and find that REAP does not know what a private training establishment, or the Workers Educational Association is doing. Through the Tertiary Education Commission, we have set aside $2.8 million for the regional networks\u2014for quality assurance, for setting priorities in that area, and for actually helping them to adapt as we face the new commission\u2014so that we do not leave people all on their own. Through the Ministry of Education, we have also set up 4 years of work for foundation learning, which is dealing with some of the industry training organisations, students straight out of school, and the Gateway programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to end with a bit of pride at what the growth and innovation fund is doing for Wellington. There is work there to help the task forces, particularly in screen and production. We are hoping that over the next 4 years $110 million will come out of the fund for projects here in Wellington. Extraordinary work has happened in terms of education. The Wilton Playcentre in my electorate is one of the six centres of innovation that will be used to build a strong research base for informing and developing best models of teaching practice in early childhood education. We are putting in somewhere in the region of 236 new teachers for the 2004 teaching year. In the Wellington region we will also have 7,000 new industry trainees. That is what we want for a growing economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf20ca85c6cc4c0bb5eb85b7723c9559\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf20ca85c6cc4c0bb5eb85b7723c9559\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (NZ National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E What a sad day it is today! New Zealand has been excluded from a free-trade agreement with the United States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6993fec74f34e08b2c03960ba98f7e7\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re making it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f6f7c218ed45b0a0ef99f2e9eb79ef\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: The senior whip says I am making it up, yet all the media reports, even from the embassy today, are saying that New Zealand has been isolated. We stand alone; out on the side. We are not a team player, and we have been excluded from a trade deal that the United States is prepared to sign with Chile and Singapore. Where is New Zealand? We are not even considered. We are on the scrap heap. We are missing out on a billion dollars of trade because this Government has come out said: \u201CWe are not going to support our traditional allies\u2014the United States, Britain, and Australia. We know better. We are going to stand apart.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESix months ago, in December, Robert Zoellick, the US Trade Representative, said that there was possibly an opportunity for New Zealand to be included in a free-trade agreement along with Australia. What has happened since that time? We have seen the New Zealand Prime Minster standing out to one side, saying: \u201CWe don\u2019t want to be a part of it. We don\u2019t to support our traditional allies.\u201D So what has the United States done? We have said time and time again that trade is linked to our traditional relationships with our trading partners and friends. In testimony before the US House of Representatives agriculture committee on 21 May, Zoellick said that negotiations for a free-trade agreement with Australia, which President Bush aimed to complete in 2003, would not extend to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe senior whip said I was making it up. This is straight from the embassy, which says that the free-trade agreement will not extend to New Zealand. \u201CThat is my present expectation,\u201D Zoellick said. \u201CCiting one challenge, he indicated that US farm groups would be likely to oppose increasing imports of New Zealand lamb and dairy products, diminishing support for such an agreement in the Congress.\u201D He also said: \u201CNew Zealand has taken some actions recently that would pose problems for congressional passage of a New Zealand free-trade agreement.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThat spells it out\u2014this Government is responsible. This Government does not have the foresight to see where we need to position ourselves. No wonder Treasury said that there would be only 2 percent growth next year. We now know why. It is because we have been excluded from that very important free-trade agreement. Zoellick said he expected to be signing a free-trade agreement with Chile very soon, as well as Singapore. But where is New Zealand? We are left out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI represent a rural constituency\u2014the Piako electorate. We are a nation of farmers. That is where the growth in New Zealand comes from. What does this actually mean to the farmers, the people I represent in my area? Well, we are not going to forget this day. We will not forget the cruel blow that this Government has dealt to the prosperity of all New Zealanders in the cities and the towns. That free-trade agreement with the United States was something we could have hung our hats on. We are an exporting country, and most of our wealth comes from the rural sector. It is the rural sector that has given us growth and buoyancy over the last couple of years. Export prices, commodity prices, low interest rates, high prices overseas, and the weather have all contributed to buoyancy in rural New Zealand, and that prosperity has flowed through to the cities. This country has had the ability to capitalise on that; it not due to anything that the Government has done. But today the Government has put a nail in the coffin of any future growth, because this Budget is a no-growth Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ECertainly, the announcement today that New Zealand has been excluded from a free-trade agreement is something that this Government will have to bear. At the next election, Labour Party members will be hanging their heads in shame that they did not support our traditional allies when the time came and they asked New Zealand to stand beside them. But our Government said: \u201CNo way. We\u2019re going to isolate ourselves and put our support behind those non-aligned countries.\u201D We could not go out there and say to our friends\u2014the Americans, the UK, and our Australian colleagues\u2014that we were prepared to stand beside them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThis Government oversees \u201CNew Zealand Incorporated\u201D. The mission of a Government should be to provide a very prosperous economy and an environment in which businesses can grow. Every year, about 44,000 new businesses are created in New Zealand, and about 45,500 of them fall over. The rate of births and deaths of small businesses is amazing, but it is a natural progression. Small businesses in New Zealand are going to be hard hit by the Government policies of the last few years. Nothing in the Budget actually said to small businesses that the Government thinks they are important and will help them out. This Government will form a committee to advise the committee on another committee. This Government is all about forming committees; it is all talk, no action. If we want growth in the economy\u2014and most of the growth in the economy comes from small to medium-sized businesses\u2014it follows that we have to remove those compliance costs and regulatory barriers. Since this Government has been in power, that regulatory creep is causing a real problem in terms of the way New Zealanders do business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI shall quote some statistics to show the importance of small business to New Zealand: 92 percent of Kiwi businesses employ fewer than 10 people, and, specifically, 80 percent employ fewer than five people. We are a nation of small businesses. Of course, an owner-operator or owner of a business is obliged by law to comply with complex regulations and laws and pay tax. Some very interesting statistics have come out in recent times. The extra compliance costs for a business employing 20 people in February 2002 was estimated at $26,000, but in December 2002 that figure was $43,877. That is a huge increase in compliance costs, and New Zealand businesses are carrying the can. We are not operating under a cost-plus mentality now. Prices are driven by the market: they are whatever people are prepared to pay. The National Party is saying that we have to get those regulatory barriers and compliance costs out of the way, so that business can get on with the job it does best\u2014growing the business, employing the people, making the investment. That is where growth comes from. Businesses create growth, not Governments, but this Government would not know that. It wants to empower the bureaucrats. That is where this Government thinks growth comes from. It says: \u201CTax the people, tax businesses.\u201D That is the way it thinks it can fund its operations, but it does not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI want to mention a couple of measures, because they are huge hindrances for business. The first is the Holidays (Four Weeks Annual Leave) Amendment Bill, which is being proposed by the Hon Matt Robson. He might stand and say something about it, but I say that the increase from 3 weeks\u2019 annual leave to 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave will also create relativity claims, because those getting 4 weeks\u2019 leave will want 5 weeks. Small businesses cannot afford that sort of compliance cost. Then there is the matter of payment for statutory holidays and holiday pay. If staff work on a statutory holiday, the employer will have to pay time and a half\u2014penal rates. A lot of businesses do that anyway, but at the same time they have to give a day off in lieu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EA real challenge is the 3-day bereavement leave provision. What does that mean? It is not 3 days per year; it is 3 days if a close relative dies. We will see a multiplication here. A businessperson whose company employs 53 people came to see me. If this bill is passed in its present form, that company will pack its bags and go to Australia, because of the huge compliance costs this Government is going to impose on business. There is no incentive to be in business today\u2014none at all. Those huge compliance costs are causing employers to say: \u201CWhy should I bother? I might as well put my money in the bank.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAs well as that, there are sick leave provisions that say that employees do not have to produce a doctor\u2019s certificate for 4 days\u2019 illness. That is open-ended, and I know what will happen\u2014there will be an abuse of the system and small business will carry the can. There is also the extension of paid parental leave from 12 weeks out to 14 weeks. We have union negotiations; we have this thing called \u201Cstress in the workplace\u201D Heavens above! I wonder what that means. Employers cannot insure against it. Then there is \u201Cmental fatigue\u201D. I wonder what that is. Members opposite probably suffer from mental fatigue all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6d76881c9f44cb69ce3673d2167a993\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6d76881c9f44cb69ce3673d2167a993\u0022\u003EHon MATT ROBSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E I now know that to be a member of the National Party\u2014and it probably goes for the other right-wing parties; ACT and New Zealand First\u2014is very easy. They can be lazy. They do not have to do any thinking. They do not have to develop their own international policy. All they need to do is go into www.republicanparty.org.usa and take a photocopy and spread it around\u2014then they have their foreign policy. Nothing has changed from when I became conscious of international politics and the war in Vietnam was waging. The National Party of the time did not have its own foreign policy. It supported an immoral, illegal war, which killed millions of people, and said: \u201CWe\u2019re doing it because it\u2019s free trade, and we\u2019re doing it because of our traditional allies.\u201D In other words, \u201CEasy\u2014don\u2019t think.\u201D [Interruption] On 4 weeks\u2019 leave, one can shift to Australia. I tell Mr Tisch that in Australia 4 weeks\u2019 leave is normal for workers, and most of them have 5 or 6 weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThis is the fourth progressive Budget from the centre-left coalition, first elected in 1999. The Budget shows a net cash surplus of $4.2 billion from core Government operations as at 30 June 2003, which lets us invest $1.2 billion net investment in physical assets like schools for the benefit of the nation, and $1.2 billion is to be invested to partially fund known future pension liabilities. That is responsible centre-left rule for the benefit of current and future generations. That is progress. It is the rebuilding of New Zealand. Budget 2003 permits us to build further on the framework put in place in the past 3\u00BD years to facilitate economic development, jobs, and safer communities. It builds after the wreckage of the policies of Roger Douglas through the 1990s, of the National minority Governments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThe need to have a framework in place to facilitate the creation of high-paying jobs for all of our people is all the more necessary because the international environment is so uncertain. Yesterday we had a frank insight into why the United States does not want to enter into a fair trade deal with New Zealand\u2014a deal that would facilitate job opportunities, certainly, in New Zealand export industries. The reason it will not lower its punitive barriers on our exports has nothing to do with our independent foreign policy, which puts New Zealand\u2019s interests first. US trade representative Robert Zoellick yesterday told it as it is. He dashed hopes of a fair trade deal between our two countries by citing too many objections from Washington-subsidised United States corporate agricultural interests in dairying and sheep meat. The anti-fair trade policies of the rich economies of the United States, Europe, and Japan are against New Zealand\u2019s national interests, which seek a fair multilateral rules-based system. Their practices also cost lives and living standards in the developing world. But that is the world we live in, and Dr Cullen has to manage the coalition finances with a view to having the most positive impact on the New Zealand economy within the context of the hard cold facts of the international environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EDespite the uncertain international scene, Budget 2003 builds on the steps taken since 1999 to foster intelligent partnership with industry sectors and regions, and between business and Government agencies to leverage more out of the business expansion opportunities in New Zealand and overseas as they arise. In particular, the Progressives are pleased that this Budget provides for policies that are dear to our hearts. There is another $85 million for industry training schemes. We will have 100,000 in training by 2005 because of that. There is another $56 million towards getting all youth under 20 into jobs, education, or training by 2007. That is the way in which National should attack the dole problem. Also in this Budget is $37 million over 4 years for a long-term trade development strategy, and $400 million over 4 years is being added to the existing $112 million for industry and regional development funding. This is investment in the future. It is a vote of confidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThere will be more for children getting cheaper or free doctors\u2019 visits, the elderly can look forward to cheaper health-care, and there is more for early-prevention programmes. Next year, when an even more progressive Budget is introduced, low-paid workers will have a minimum of 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave as an extra bonus. The coalition has acted on drug abuse. The Labour and Progressive parties will not agree on everything. The Progressives, for example, will continue to advocate for no fee increases for any tertiary students, and we hope that that policy will come to fruition. We also recognise that that will mean a reduced Government surplus, or that cuts to other programmes of lesser priority than education need to be put in place. The challenge for those voting against Budget 2003\u2014National, New Zealand First, ACT, and the Greens\u2014is to put up a coherent alternative upon which they can all agree. But they cannot agree on anything except to promote negativity and promise the earth. They stay silent on how they will develop the economy, or what tax regimes they will put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea6e16c425ff48759b4d050941ffc09e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea6e16c425ff48759b4d050941ffc09e\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE (NZ Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to talk about the advantages this Budget has brought to the whole country, and in particular, to the people of Otago and Southland. Education in my home territory, and in the south, has considerable increased funding. For example, people in Clutha-Southland, Dunedin North, Dunedin South, Invercargill, and Otago have an even distribution of another 72.5 new teachers this year above those required for roll growth. Next year there will be another 63.7 new teachers above those required for roll growth. We have $1.16 in extra operational funding for our schools in Otago and Southland. In industry training the Budget contains an $85 million package that will significantly boost the number of businesses and workers involved. I am pleased to tell the House that, currently, nearly 9,000 young people are involved in industry training in the southern region. In health, $656.9 million has been allocated for major hospital developments. A substantial amount of that funding\u2014which is much welcomed by the people in the electorate of my colleague, Mark Peck\u2014will go to the new Southland hospital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EA wonderful initiative for rural areas suffering so badly under the depopulation, encouraged and left alone and ignored by previous Governments, is that just under half a million dollars will be allocated over the next 2 years in rural roster relief funding to help those 11 primary health providers in those areas. That money will help relieve doctors and nurses working in those onerous and remote parts of New Zealand. It is part of a total of nearly $3.5 million to be allocated over the next 2 years to the rural health services, which are so important for the health of those communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Budget provides, in rural and agricultural affairs, more than $30 million to sustain the Sustainable Farming Fund for another 3 years, which will, in my territory, enable support for another 80 to 90 projects a year. Already, the Sustainable Farming Fund has provided support for more than 180 community and partnership-based projects, of which 160 are still running. It is hard to think of a better example of the partnerships that this Government is determined and so successful in forging with all the sectors of our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E That positive achievement happens without the butchery the Brash policies would bring to our communities, and without the sad and failed policies of those mean people on the Opposition benches\u2014people described in the current Listener, even by their own supporters, as \u201Cleaden brat packers\u201D. This Budget invests wisely in the future of New Zealand, continuing the directions begun by this Government in 1999\u2014directions that the community continues to applaud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EFor those silly enough to believe the Opposition rhetoric that there is nothing in this Budget, let me detail spending changes in some key areas. In the area of social services, the Budget includes an extra $582 million this incoming year. The Budget includes an extra $737 million for health services in the new year. In education, the incoming Budget includes an extra $481 million. In housing there is an extra $41 million. In arts, culture and heritage\u2014one of our most creative and productive work sectors\u2014there is $28 million of extra spending. This spending is welcome everywhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EOn the East Coast, in the south, in Northland, in enterprise, industry, and regional development\u2014which would be done away with by those members on that side of the House\u2014there is an increase in spending by an enormous $76 million. Members should compare those commitments to the promises of Dr Brash, who is now in charge of policy development for the Opposition. Dr Brash wants to \u201Cscrap the unemployment benefit and minimum wage laws, and reinstitute work camps.\u201D He said that on National Radio on 29 January this year. He wants to allow employers to sack staff more easily without fear of recourse to the Employment Court. He said that in the Press on 5 April this year. He wants to privatise health and education services. He said that on 18 August 1999. Dr Brash also wants to slash Government spending per capita by 20 percent. He said that in the Press on 5 April this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EDr Brash also wants to end affirmative action programmes for M\u0101ori. He said that on the same occasion. Dr Brash also said in the Press on 5 April that he wants to increase spending on defence. Most interestingly, Dr Brash wants to bring in tax relief for the richest New Zealanders\u2014that is, a flat tax and a capital gains tax based on housing gains. He said that in the Independent on 27 March 1997. Dr Brash also wants to raise the age of entitlement for New Zealand superannuation. He said that at the knowledge wave conference in August 2002, and he wants to continue the programme of asset sales. He said that on 17 May 2002. As I have just mentioned, Dr Brash, the one who is developing the policy for that party, wants to abandon regional development and Industry New Zealand. He said that on 15 July 2002 on Wellington television. That is what Dr Brash, National\u2019s leader-in-waiting, believes. That is why no one in this country will miss the irony of the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary definition of the word \u201CBrash\u201D, which is that it is a noun: \u201CA slight attack of sickness; esp. one arising from a disorder of the alimentary canal.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264891e8d1c0848d2bb50ff9e762a8c50\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is all very well, but that can lead to unfortunate repercussions. Members are entitled to their name and to have their name used. I suggest the member moves on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278f2386200cb4b0e9ce85c0174d8012f\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Those policies that I have detailed will certainly have a most undesirable effect on most New Zealanders. I wonder whether that is the reason for the extraordinary poll released in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald The poll shows that National voters\u2014even though more than half of them insist that the leadership of the party should be changed\u2014are getting worried. More than half of National voters\u2014and the only figure that comes anywhere near that figure is the cross-population all-party support for the leader of the Labour Party, the Prime Minister, Helen Clark\u2014are starting to worry. Although they know that they have to change their leadership, they worry about the extraordinary policies being developed in their country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWhat I am asking the National Party to do is to come clean. I am asking Dr Brash to come clean about what he actually believes. I am also asking Mr English to come clean about the new M\u0101ori policy. Does that member\u2019s new M\u0101ori policy to \u201Cout-Peters\u201D Mr Peters really mean the logical consequence that National will stand no candidates in the M\u0101ori seats in 2005? I am asking Mr English: does that policy mean that we would see M\u0101ori being selected by that party in winnable electorate seats, which will clearly be fewer in 2005, anyway? I do not think so! And does that policy mean that any M\u0101ori list candidate could have an expectation\u2014any M\u0101ori list candidate stupid enough to climb aboard the National shipwreck\u2014that anyone, let alone anyone M\u0101ori, could be elected from the list given the appalling polling of that party? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EMembers should compare that attitude with this Budget\u2019s commitment to innovation, to growth, and to jobs. There is $140 million over 4 years for research, science, and technology\u2014that area so long ignored by preceding Governments. There is $73 million over 4 years to promote overseas trade. There is $19 million for the pre-seed accelerator fund. This Budget is about a Government keeping its word. It is about a Government that has seen more New Zealanders now in work than ever before\u2014an increase of 132,000 New Zealanders employed since we were first elected in 1999. This is a Government that has reduced the cost of primary health-care through the establishment of 34 public health organisations throughout the country. It is a Government that has made superannuation more secure by the establishment of the fund. It is a Government that has funded 5,102 modern apprenticeships, which is nearly at our target of 6,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022 data-id=\u00224d7e753b2ce54da4876f0788fd4f5a6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d7e753b2ce54da4876f0788fd4f5a6d\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is a political truism that when the Government has good news to release, it times it for the television news in the evening. When it has bad news, of course, it hides it in the dead media time of the weekend. When it has really, really bad news, it releases it the day before Christmas or the day before Easter, so that it gets hidden when people are too busy going on holidays to even read the news. And so it was with the economic impact report on genetically modified organisms and their impact on the environment. By the time it became public it was already yesterday\u2019s fish and chip wrappers. So was this a success for the spin doctors, or was it something really quite sinister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EThat economic impact report makes very chilling reading for rural communities. Farmers should be afraid\u2014they should be very afraid. If I can summarise the report very briefly, it states that keeping New Zealand free of genetically engineered organisms is good for the rural economy, and embracing genetically engineered organisms is disastrous for the rural economy. So what is this report? Is this the work of the rabid environmentalists\u2014the anti-science, anti-progress people? No it is not. This is the work of Business and Economic Research Ltd. It was commissioned by the Ministry for the Environment, and Treasury. This was part of the Government\u2019s response to the Royal Commission on Genetic Modification. This is a formal document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EIt is a curious document, though. It is curious because what is in the text is very different from what is in the executive summary. Why is it, I wonder, that that is the case? The answer is that what is in the text is absolutely damning for the direction that this Government is taking. It is not even listening to its own advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EThere are only two ways to embrace genetic engineering (GE) that can have a positive impact on our rural economies. The first is if we embrace GE and there is an increase in productivity\u2014a very large increase. That is the assumption that underpins all the positive scenarios in this report. The only problem is that there is no example of increased productivity from the use of GE anywhere in the world. There are no examples of it. The other way we can increase the performance of the rural economies is to remain free of genetically engineered organisms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E We are a market-driven economy. We must be responsive to the needs of the consumers who buy our products, and the message from them is unequivocal. It says that our consumer markets do not want GE-free produce. If we increase the demand for our produce, then the returns to farmers go up. If we increase our productivity it is equivocal because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208267273468e4ff78d3778e4734a6a0a\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: More people will not be able to afford to buy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f7f0d1b3b564f9f9c3a947244cf810c\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mrs Pettis, that quite apart from anything else, if one increases the amount of product that is on the market, then the price goes down. So increasing productivity does not necessarily increase the farm-gate return. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003ESo why is the Government trying to hide this information? Why do we have, and I hesitate to say this, an otherwise astute Government that is clearly flying in the face of common sense? It is doing the opposite of what the population of this country wants. It is doing the opposite of what the farmers of this country want. Why did the Minister of Rural Affairs, in answer to a question I asked him yesterday, dismiss an academic research poll that showed that 80 percent of farmers do not want GE, as just another poll\u2014it was off-hand? Why did the Minister for the Environment  not read the report? She got as far as the executive summary, and that was good. But it does not reflect what is in the text. Why does David Parker, for instance, think that farmers want GE? I tell Mr Parker that they do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d9164cbd2ef4b339ba8f0767d12d06d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Mr Key, could I say that he has 9 minutes before the Minister calls in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022520966d835534030a6fe04184d26ea9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022520966d835534030a6fe04184d26ea9f\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (NZ National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister of Finance, Dr Michael Cullen, promised that the 2003 Budget would be a boring and predictable event. For once in his life he under-promised, and he over-delivered. This was a big surplus\u2014a whopping $4 billion. That is $4 billion earned on the hard work and good economic policies of the 1990s introduced by a National Government. That is why the surplus is there. There are also a couple of other factors: a low exchange rate, high commodity prices, and good times down on the farm. There was a $4 billion surplus on the back of the hard work by the National Government, and what did the Minister do? Did he stop for just a moment and consider the hard-working people of New Zealand, the small businesses up and down the land, the corporates, the backbone of this country, who produce the jobs and pay the taxes? Did he consider them for just one moment? No, he did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House waited, and waited very patiently I might add, for Dr Cullen to pull a nice juicy rabbit out of the Budget hat. If he pulled a rabbit out of that hat, it must be a virtual rabbit. I am still waiting to see that rabbit, because this Budget produced nothing, absolutely nothing, for the hard-working businesses and people of New Zealand. It is no wonder the Government has found this to be an arduous debate over the last 14 hours. It is no wonder the Minister did not get a single clap during his speech. I reviewed the tapes and looked at the Hansard. Even Bill Birch, not known for being the most animated Minister of Finance, often had members in raptures when he delivered his Budget. He had them on their feet, roaring and cheering him on. There was not a single clap for Dr Cullen, even though the Labour members were under orders to do so. Not a single cheer came from the Government benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIt is no wonder Susan St John gave that Budget a D minus. Dr Cullen has never had a D minus in his life. Susan St John delivered Dr Cullen a D minus. In a time when he had the opportunity to send the growth message, and when he had the opportunity to give cuts in taxes and compliance costs, what did the Minister deliver? The Minister delivered a subsidised bean counter. That is what he said to small businesses: he told small businesses that the Government would not do anything about compliance, but that it would give them a subsidised bean counter to help them fill out the forms. That was an anti-growth Budget. That is what that Budget delivered. But I ask what it did not deliver\u2014because the list of what it failed to deliver is so much longer than anything it delivered. It did not do anything for the roads of my home town of Auckland. Not a single dollar of extra spending went to fix\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ebad28024a94f258957ba3a5b43f267\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Not a skerrick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f5b54803c054e1aa87edca480bdd5ef\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Not a skerrick! There was nothing for those poor Aucklanders, many of whom will be stuck in a traffic jam right now. They are ruing the day they read this Budget. They are asking where the extra spending is for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWhat about the corporates? Was there a tax cut for them? Was there anything to say: \u201CGood on you for doing a good job! Thanks very much for producing a $4 billion surplus. Thanks for everything you do for us, day after day after day.\u201D? No, sir. There was nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWhat about the entrepreneurs? Where was the message they should have got by cutting the top personal tax rate and saying: \u201CGet out there and do it again for us. Get out there and bat again for the good old home team, New Zealand.\u201D? There was nothing there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWhat about the Defence Force? Whenuapai Air Base\u2014as long as it lasts\u2014is in my electorate. Was there an extra dollar of spending for defence? Despite the fact that the world is undergoing one of the most tumultuous times in terrorist activity worldwide, there was not a single dollar for defence spending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWas there an apology to the sherry and port drinkers around the country who had $18 million snatched from their pension-books a few days earlier? No, there was no apology to the sherry and port drinkers. What about a helping hand for those suffering from the energy crisis\u2014in other words, the whole country? What about those people? They got their message a few days later, when the $200 million energy tax was announced. That is what they had delivered up for them. What about growth? Was there anything in the Budget to make us rise in the OECD? Was there anything to help us compete, relative to Australia? There was absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWhat did the 2003 Budget\u2014of predictable stability\u2014deliver? It delivered more money being thrown hopelessly at the health system into primary health-care, which has failed to deliver. It gave an additional $34 million for a boat race in Auckland, despite the fact that it will be held in the Northern Hemisphere, and despite the fact that the Government could give it only $5 million when it was held here in the Hauraki Gulf in our own backyard. It gave $6.5 million to the political spin machine to spin just a little faster on the Treaty of Waitangi. That is what the Budget delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThis Budget was very quick to point out that the world that we live in is a rapidly changing environment. Severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars), a killer virus, is in play at the moment. There is worldwide terrorist activity, and plummeting confidence in global equity markets. The solution from the Government is to send $1.8 billion to the New York stock market. It does not matter that worldwide equity prices are going down. Do not worry about that. Do not worry that the Prime Minister would not give support to our traditional allies, because the Minister of Finance, Michael Cullen, will step into the breach and send $1.8 billion over to the New York stock market? It has not fooled us in the Opposition, and it did not fool Robert Zoellick, the trade negotiator, when he told us that we are so far off the table it is not even funny. That was what he said. Why did Dr Cullen not give some of those hard-working businesses, corporates, and entrepreneurs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8be1600cc3c46a4b680909ceec9cf0c\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s saving it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022669d48ad0aab456488ddbcea402e748f\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. Why did he not give them any money? Because he is saving it for the biggest lolly scramble that members have ever seen in their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b60ac62f578746d0acf9b66501955c8e\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Bribery!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222244ac0768e44d248594e23a8bb147d2\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want to use that word. A huge lolly scramble is coming down the pipes. He called on the caucus and said: \u201CPlease don\u2019t criticise me. I don\u2019t mind if you don\u2019t give me any applause. I don\u2019t mind if you don\u2019t clap. Don\u2019t worry about the fact that I\u2019ve done absolutely nothing for Auckland roads. Don\u2019t worry about the fact that this is the most anti-growth Budget that has been delivered for some time in this House, but please, please, just stay at bay because, don\u2019t worry, in 12 months\u2019 time I\u2019m going to spend everything that\u2019s in the cupboard, and some. I\u2019m going to try to buy our way in for a third term.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIt will not work. Hard-working New Zealanders will see through that. They will not fall for that stuff. They are sitting in their cars at the moment ruing the day they read this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c1b7c6b00534e05804c7ec1086d7627\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: His last cue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec199cc39fc74ba6a578eb3b13b0689d\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It probably will not be his last Budget, but it will be nearing the end of his term. This Budget has been a failure for New Zealanders. The Labour Party has squandered a wonderful opportunity earned by the National Party through its good stewardship of the economy in the 1990s. The Labour Party has a lot to thank us for and I will wait for Dr Cullen to deliver that thankyou and gratitude personally, of which the National Government was so deserving in the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b97be71bb945878185849e73714f6c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call on Heather Roy, who has 20 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaf9f8938f5d4861b0e763d298dcf29c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaf9f8938f5d4861b0e763d298dcf29c\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E This Budget shows the Labour Government in its true light. It shows it for what it really is: an arrogant Government that is out of touch with New Zealanders. We object to this Budget. We will not be supporting it. The $4 billion surplus is an indictment on this Government. The money that was earned by the workers of this country should be given back to its rightful owners: the workers who deserve tax relief for their fine efforts in producing the goods for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00220561705560fa43be89e5fe294fa08a01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220561705560fa43be89e5fe294fa08a01\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pity that that member did not read some of the Australian newspapers today, because Mr Costello gave some tax cuts, and only 20 percent of the Australian public supported that. The great majority would rather the money had been spent on more health and education. I want to start with that, because ACT has invented a whole new form of economics. Mr Prebble says that if one has an operating surplus of $4 billion\u2014it was actually $1.36 billion, but never mind\u2014on accruals accounting, one can spend the lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ELet me run through, for the simple minds on the back bench of the ACT party\u2014they are all back-benchers there\u2014the simple facts of accruals accounting. Let me give them my simple car example. Suppose a person\u2019s income is $30,000. That person spends $20,000 on the ordinary cost of living, and buys a car worth $10,000. The ordinary person would say there would be no money left. Accruals accounting would say that the money spent was $20,000 plus the first year\u2019s depreciation\u2014say, $2,500. That person has made a profit of $7,500. Mr Prebble says that one spends the $7,500. How can one do that? One has to borrow the lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E So at the end of the year, one still has a car, but one now has a debt of $7,500, and one then repeats the performance, year after year. That has a name, and it is what Sir Robert Muldoon used to do as a form of government. He ended up borrowing to pay for the groceries. Where does that lead us? By 1984 and 1985 it led to one tax dollar in four being spent on interest payments on servicing the Government debt, and that is now the ACT party\u2019s version of neoclassical economics. My God! Adam Smith and all the rest of them must be turning so fast in their graves that if we could stick two wires into them, we would not have a power crisis this winter in New Zealand. But, of course, National is more subtle. When I was asked before the Budget what the reaction would be, I said, \u201CYou can guarantee what it will be: business will say it doesn\u2019t do what they want\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220081f30b3f4b466cb26a6c20087d1e32\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The reason I am cutting off the member is that an ACT member was cut off. We had an undertaking that we would be able to speak, and we are now told that the ACT member of Parliament cannot speak on the Budget. The ACT party\u2019s rights in this House have been cut off, not because of points of order\u2014the ACT party has not been raising points of order and objecting to the Budget\u2014but because of institutional racism. One can now get up, speak in M\u0101ori, get double the time, and thus cut off the ACT party. If we are going to allow that, then the ACT member of Parliament should have been able to give a speech. It is absurd that we are now in a position where mainly Government MPs can get double the usual length for a speech, and speak in M\u0101ori as much as they like, knowing that the effect of that will be that a legitimately elected member of Parliament is not able to speak to the Budget. The Government should have allowed Heather Roy to speak, and I want to record the fact that it is a complete outrage that that has been allowed to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227406b5e086ef47cd8e7f64811bf996b4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Heather Roy did have a very short speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df98f2dc41e4add945d579f568e6f02\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Not the time she was entitled to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239bdc90c6df54a7e9a1eece616969c70\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that, but I did call the member. I am bound by the Standing Orders on page 95. I have no room to manoeuvre. At the end of 13 hours and 50 minutes, I must call the Minister in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a19c3a0652324e7b8ec74148178549c3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: When I responded, I said: \u201CI know what the National Party will say. It will say, \u2018We should have surpluses and be responsible. We should spend more money on nearly every vote, and we should cut taxes.\u2019 \u201D And what did it do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e8d2ceda744c34a70dd02a2a548987\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s wrong with that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209a7968c476a4edca28894149ce88400\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Key asks what is wrong with that\u2014Mr Key, who has pretensions to replace Mr Carter, who has pretensions to replace Mr Brash, who has pretensions to replace Mr English. What is wrong with that is that it does not add up\u2014six into two does not go, in the kind of arithmetic we do in Budgets. Post the Budget, every little back-bench National spokesperson rushed off and said: \u201CWhat a mean, miserable lot the Government are for not spending lots more money on my bits.\u201D Then Dr Brash said: \u201CWe should run good surpluses. It is very sensible and very conservative in this situation.\u201D Then the business spokespeople said: \u201CWe should have big tax cuts, starting with those with the highest incomes.\u201D That was the National Party\u2019s form of fiscal management. It was not quite as lunatic as the ACT party\u2019s form of fiscal management, but it was pretty close to it. It wants surpluses, more spending, and lower taxes\u2014it wants everything! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIt is no wonder that Mr English is the last of the baby-boomer generation. He is demand-fed, and wants everything instantly at every moment. He was brought up in that atmosphere, and he will carry on with it for the rest of his life. What a dreadful speech he gave when he got up, after me. It was a dreadful, appalling, whingeing apology for a speech, as his eyes crossed round as he wondered what on earth he was saying, as he does, time after time, in this House and outside of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat was National\u2019s position? The Government had betrayed students by putting a limit on fees! When he was asked what the National Party policy was, he said there should be no limit on fees at all, and that they should be able to go as high as the institutions want to put them. I have a feeling that students would rather be betrayed by us, than completely shot in every different part of their body by members of Parliament opposite me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat is National\u2019s position on electricity? The principle of the great market-orientated National Party is that electricity should be free. If we need more generating capacity to have a margin, the extra should be free. Father Christmas is going to come down early for Christmas and build us some more power stations, for which I say thank you to Father Christmas, the fairy godmother, the tooth fairy, or Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u2014whoever it may be in that particular case. I have always thought of Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith as the tooth fairy. Then we had Mr John Key\u2014who is supposedly National\u2019s new, bright young spokesperson on finance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e36994be42cc4012947ef1a950972367\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If I do say so myself!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c108b976639424a8ea40f1679764938\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: He does say it himself in every press statement. He said: \u201CWhat do you do with management of funds? Invest at the top of the market.\u201D John Key\u2019s measure for success as to how to make a million is to buy when the market is at its top. I have to tell Mr Key that that is not how George Soros got there. It is not how the successful ones have operated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe National Party showed in this debate that it still has no idea of what it stands for. It believes that it is the natural party of government, but everything about National is totally unnatural. There is nothing natural about it at all. I repeat that Mr English looked like a rabbit praying for a rifle and a searchlight to put him out of his misery. The thought among National members is that they should swap him for Dr Brash, and the point of doing that will be about as useless as feeding a dozen oysters to a eunuch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo what is National going to do? It is waiting for the next generation, but Mr Simon Power is the silent member of the front bench. He scarcely rises to his full bulk and speaks forth in the House. He has gone and disappeared, so now maybe Katherine Rich will come forth at some point in the future and be the new leader of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThen we had the wonderful pro-family policy that said: \u201CIf you are a low-income family, and your kid doesn\u2019t go to school, you should have your income cut.\u201D What a brilliant idea that is! That will really encourage family life amongst low-income New Zealanders! National said we should also give a tax cut to the rich, because, as we all know, when a tax cut is given to the people at the top, for some reason they all go and work harder, whereas if they get a tax increase, they work less hard so that their income can go down even faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E I have never understood why the National Party thinks people on high incomes are so stupid that if they have to pay a slightly higher tax rate, they will decrease their income level faster to get their own back on the people who put the tax increase in place in the first instance. It has not worked. We were told we would create no jobs;  there are over 100,000 new full-time jobs. We were told that the economy would not grow; it is one of the fastest-growing in the OECD over the last year. I was across in Australia yesterday, and they were very complimentary about this Government and about New Zealand\u2014about what is happening in this country. I have here the latest Macquarie research handout talking about the new tradition in New Zealand of responsible fiscal policy. That is the external view of this Government, and I am happy to be judged by those international standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment to the amendment to the amendment in the name of Rod Donald be agreed to:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ethat all the words after \u201Chas no confidence\u201D be omitted, and the following words substituted:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\tin the Labour-led minority Government because of its failure to invest in achieving a self-reliant economy, its refusal to properly nurture a just society and its unwillingness to seriously protect the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022979dea8af0924b1ab1c1fbde6445fbc7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000511\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8;Green Party 8.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000512\u0022\u003ELabour 52; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000513\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment to the amendment in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000514\u0022\u003Ethat the following words be added:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000515\u0022\u003E\tthat this House also records that it has no confidence in this Government\u2019s ability to govern as it only ACTS the part, and even then only in a shallow and hammish way. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bd84fd877d484bc5a1f5a35c4333a585\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000516\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000517\u0022\u003ELabour 52; Green Party 8; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000518\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Bill English be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000519\u0022\u003Ethat all the words after \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following words substituted:   \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000520\u0022\u003E\tthis House has no confidence in the Labour minority Government because it has abandoned the task of lifting New Zealand\u2019s long-term growth prospects, because it is smothering our economic vitality in regulation and unworkable policy on energy and transport infrastructure, because it is overtaxing families and businesses to pay for welfare dependency, political correctness and educational failure, and because it has developed a culture of deceit around public accountability.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227da76c9336f64e38aeda41ac7d618ee2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000521\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000522\u0022\u003ELabour 52; Green Party 8; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e72f1866863c46f6b15efad1e80e108e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2002/03 Estimates) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000523\u0022\u003ELabour 52; Green Party 8; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000524\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228436b682d03747be818fdd7d8d3bc521\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2002/03 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b6842843f7249bfb5d7ee1a706c9a15\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022de9871694f8041548791813194416632\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de9871694f8041548791813194416632\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2002/03) Supplementary Estimates Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d653e6beb9644fba8a855a5ad56acc5\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229bb1be4e46d341e786ebe22e7f783746\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb2e4b152ca04bca90641da875376d82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb2e4b152ca04bca90641da875376d82\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Minimum Wage Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The bill provides protections to trainee employees, who are currently exempt from minimum wage protections, and can, in theory, be paid very little or even nothing for the work they do while they are in training. The bill does this by removing the minimum wage exemption in the principal Act for employees who are trainees, and in its place allows for a minimum training wage to be set for those employees. The changes the bill makes are based on the principle of ensuring there is payment of a socially acceptable minimum wage to industry trainees, while encouraging training. This will provide a basic equitable floor from which employers and trainee employees can negotiate a fair level of pay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for the level of the minimum training wage to be set by regulation, as is done with the adult and youth minimum wage rates. The training wage rate that will be set will be the same rate as the youth minimum wage, which currently is $6.80 an hour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E Eligibility criteria for the minimum training wage will be the same as those that currently cause a trainee to be exempt from the minimum wage. An employee will need to be undertaking training within the national qualifications framework of at least 60 credits per year. All other employees, including those training outside the national qualifications framework, will need to be paid the applicable minimum wage based on their age. This further protects employees who are new to jobs and still learning the ropes, but who are not undergoing training towards the national qualification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EThe changes this bill makes will not affect the vast majority of employers who pay their trainee employees above the minimum wage. The object is not to add undue cost to employers who engage in fair and productive employment practices while training employees. Rather, it is to provide a potentially vulnerable section of New Zealand\u2019s workforce with the statutory right to be fairly remunerated, bringing them into the current framework of protections that other employees already enjoy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI believe that this bill lays the foundation for a strong and positive training environment where both employer and employee receive worthwhile benefits for participating in training. At the same time, it brings industry trainees within the general framework of minimum wage protection, giving them the opportunity to do a decent day\u2019s work for a fair day\u2019s pay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022904b45b4325e4aa4bc073a3c93baaffd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022904b45b4325e4aa4bc073a3c93baaffd\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (NZ National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on the third reading of this bill to make some short comment in relation to the bill. For the record, National actually supported this bill going to a select committee to see what it was that the Government had in mind for the bill, and in particular how the legislation would affect young people in training. At that time, the National Party was open-minded about the costs that would be incurred during that process, and how the process would pan out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EIn fact, the explanatory note of the bill that was referred to the select committee included a statement that caught the eye of members on this side of the House. Under \u201CCosts\u201D, in the section headed \u201CStatement of net benefit of this proposal\u201D, was the statement: \u201CThe proposed change may have a small adverse impact on the Government\u2019s fiscal position. The fiscal impact would come from the increased benefit payments that may occur as a result of potential job losses over time.\u201D The most crucial part, though, of that initial description was the line that followed: \u201CIt is, therefore, unclear what the overall fiscal impact would be.\u201D So at that point National supported the bill going to a select committee, to try to get a better handle on what the fiscal impact of the introduction of this type of scheme would be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, during the course of the select committee inquiry we found that staff of the advising department, the Department of Labour, were unable to advise us how those costs could be measured. They were unable to forecast for us the fiscal impact of this particular legislation, and in my view that made it impossible for members of that select committee rightly to assess the overall fiscal impact of the bill. [Interruption] Well, the member Jill Pettis chirps in, but National did support this bill proceeding to the select committee, in a genuine attempt to find out what the fiscal impact of the bill would be. I was on the select committee at that time; that member who yelled out across the House was not. I say that when the departmental officials came before the select committee, Government members on that committee\u2014one of whom is sitting in the House now\u2014were very concerned that the department was unable to provide accurate information about the impact of this bill. They were unable to provide us with any forecasts about how it would affect the job market, or about the fiscal implications of what this bill would do to young people in training. These are quite serious issues, and not ones that should just be tossed aside, as that member has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThere are other costs, of course, associated with implementing this legislation. They are broken into two sets, if one likes. The first is the cost to business, in the sense that the bill adds to the already enlarging list of costs that business faces\u2014the renationalisation of accident compensation, the Employment Relations Act, health and safety legislation, and paid parental leave, not to mention current plans to introduce a further week of annual leave. At that stage during the select committee process we were worried that the bill would further increase those costs to business by increasing the wages of trainee employees, who are only there as a result of an industry training organisation arrangement\u2014which is a pretty straightforward and satisfactory way of bringing young people into training in the first instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EBut what made this legislation particularly difficult for members of the Opposition to support was the second impact that this bill would have\u2014the impact on employees themselves. We could not get clear from the officials whether this bill would have an impact on whether business would take on these young people in any event. The issue that concerned members on this side of the House, quite seriously, was that business would simply stop taking young people on, because of the increase in compliance costs that would be brought about by this legislation. That raised the point that the people who would miss out were the very people this bill was designed to help. It was not acceptable to members on this side of the House that we support the enactment of legislation that would have that impact on employees, and would have the impacts on employers that I have outlined. And we were still unable to ascertain from departmental officials what the forecasts of the employment and fiscal impacts were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EI simply say, in concluding, that to pass legislation with all those factors outstanding is simply not good enough, and that is the reason National will not be supporting this bill in the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffcc837d1a2b43839b63ba18a695ad79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffcc837d1a2b43839b63ba18a695ad79\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (NZ Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I will take only a very brief call on this bill. I was interested to hear what the previous speaker had to say. Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to sit on the select committee, but I have to say that the reasons for not supporting this legislation are very tenuous and very slim. The National Party is saying: \u201CHow can you support it going to a select committee?\u201D. Morally, it really had no other option. How can we say we do not support paying young people a decent wage? That was the National Party\u2019s way of politically getting out of it\u2014and then: \u201CPlease God, let us find an excuse not to support this bill.\u201D So, hello, it seized upon the excuse of not knowing the certainty of the fiscal impacts. Well, for goodness\u2019 sake!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E It reminds me of when Parnell, a man who is much revered by a lot of us in New Zealand, suggested that an 8-hour day would be a civilised way for people to work. The end of the world as people knew it at the time was going to occur because of that. Well, hello, it has not happened. It reminds me also of the Blackball coalminers who wanted a half-hour for their crib\u2014their lunch, in common terminology\u2014but they were denied it, until it was discovered that the boss was having 2 hours for lunch. Then it seemed to be a matter of: \u201CWell, all right, perhaps these poor miserable sods who work down in the black centre of the earth could have a mere half-hour, after all.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EI do not think there was a great deal of conviction in the National Party\u2019s argument that it was because of the fiscal impact that it could not support this bill. That is just a feeble excuse. This bill ensures that young people will be protected during their period of training\u2014and if we do not know the importance of training in the workforce by now, there is something seriously wrong with us. I just have to question the Christian spirit and the good-heartedness of people who do not believe that young people are worth paying a decent, liveable wage to. After all, are not most of us here parents? Would we not want our children to be paid a decent wage while they are in training? As a parent, I most certainly think my children should be paid a fair, decent, and liveable wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EI am supporting this bill, because it is good for young people and it is good for society\u2014and \u201CDo unto others as you would have them do unto you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u0022b58622e008484982bc383e07eb007d7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b58622e008484982bc383e07eb007d7d\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First has supported this bill and it intends to continue to do so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3122ddfbcd24d519b3bb577b8de46e6\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Well done!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b23bbea9f4224afea85f73ff0d0f81a9\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the support from Jill Pettis, which is not often forthcoming\u2014indeed, I have to ask myself whether we have made a mistake! But, no, I am positive we have not and that we are making the right move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThe bill is a very short bill. It relates to minimum wages, particularly in respect of young people who are employed under contracts of service. Under these they are required to undergo training, instruction, or examination for the purpose of becoming qualified for the occupation to which their contract of service relates. We can all probably remember when we were at the stage of trying to get our first job, not having had any experience or having gained any qualifications. Often one might be competing against somebody else who does have some qualifications, or whatever. It is always so very hard to get one\u2019s very first job and to gain some experience. I feel that one of the best things I ever did in my legal practice was to give young people their first-ever job. Almost always it was a secretarial job. After interviewing many young people for those jobs, I found it was wonderful to see the look of delight on the faces of those who got them. The fact that those young people would often then stay for many years proved very encouraging all round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EGiving someone his or her first job is probably the best thing one can ever do, and one finds that most people\u2014and we are talking about young people\u2014will reciprocate by working pretty well. I think that would also apply to older people. I expect that this bill should apply to people who want to be retrained so they can move into other areas. There are any number of people who perhaps have had no computing experience, or similar, and who might want to change their lifestyles and are prepared to take a drop in wages. I am not exactly sure whether it is the case that this bill applies to them. Perhaps the next speaker could clarify that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EHowever, this bill encourages at least some decent payment to be made, although there would not be many employers in any type of industry in New Zealand today who would pay just the minimum wage. It would be very, very unusual to find employers who were paying just the minimum wage. If they were, it would be almost a criticism of them, as much as anything else. If they were able to pay their staff only along the lines of a minimum wage, one would have to wonder just how worthwhile their businesses were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E I guess that that applies to many industries around the country. I am sure that my friend Edwin Perry here will tell me that this bill should advantage people who want to become farming cadets in the Wairarapa, and places like that. Employers in industries such as the motor-car industry are only too pleased to take on young people, probably in places such as the garage, to assist them in getting some on-the-jobtraining, instruction, and so on. New Zealand First believes that education is the key to the future, and this is a form of education, on-the-job education, which is the best education one can possibly get in any industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EI had many years of education as a law clerk. In those days, by the time one finished one\u2019s degree one had gained a lot of experience\u2014in fact 4 years\u2019 more experience than law graduates today who get their degrees with absolutely no legal experience whatsoever and who are of very little use to employers in a legal practice. One almost wonders whether this particular bill would apply to them, even though they have university degrees. However, those graduates are very well trained in our universities. They are very intelligent people, so they get on and do well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EAs I said, New Zealand First supports education in all areas. We have a strong M\u0101ori vote, and we feel that this bill will do a lot to encourage young M\u0101ori boys and girls. However, more should be made of the legislation so that they are encouraged to realise their rights. New Zealand First supports their right to be paid a reasonable amount along the minimum wage line. We think that when they are undergoing their instruction, they are entitled to that; and that should encourage them to respond to a good employer. New Zealand First supports this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022 data-id=\u0022334ca688bb254e86aa0fa3fd342992b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022334ca688bb254e86aa0fa3fd342992b7\u0022\u003EPAUL ADAMS (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I personally believe that this bill undermines the privilege that it is to learn, and it puts another unnecessary cost on business in New Zealand. There are many employers in New Zealand who are very happy to employ staff for work done, but this bill requires employers to pay staff even when they are not working, and are instead in a training programme. Many people seem to think that the poor old employer is a bottomless pit, able to pay for all and sundry, but that is simply not true. Many small businesses struggle under a tremendous load.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EIn my younger days, I personally found it a privilege to learn from those who had experience, and I went out of my way to glean information from others at every opportunity I could. However, it would never have entered my head to ask them to pay me for the knowledge I was receiving; it was a privilege to learn. To have sustained employment we must have two willing parties\u2014a willing employer and a willing employee\u2014and the arrangement must be fair to both parties. However, many small businesses are finding it harder and harder to keep up with the ever-increasing paperwork and compliance costs, and now this bill is asking them to pay staff while they are on a training programme away from their workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EThis bill enables different minimum wage rates to be fixed for workers who are required to undergo training. United Future did support this bill going to the select committee in 2001; however, I note that even the select committee could not reach a majority decision on the necessity for this legislation. Personally, I believe that most employers do not object to workers being paid a fair day\u2019s pay for a fair day\u2019s work, but it is very one-sided to lay on employers the responsibility to pay for everything along the way. I believe that with all the responsibilities employers currently carry for the staff they employ\u2014which, in my personal opinion, are currently very much in favour of the employee\u2014this is an additional burden that employers do not require. If this measure is passed, I believe that it will be another disincentive to employ staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EWhat many people fail to understand is that most employers are people, also. Yes, they may call themselves by a company name, but behind that name is a real person. In many cases, those people receive very little in the way of wages for themselves. Their wages are often far below what they pay their staff. Those people are the ones who often lie awake at night wondering whether they will receive payment for work done, to enable them to pay their staff, rent, power, GST, PAYE, etc. Many small-business owners carry a genuine concern for the families that their small businesses support, and I commend them for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EI have been an employee and I appreciated my job, but there is something refreshing about leaving work at night, closing the door, and leaving all of the concerns of the day there. The self-employed\u2014and, in most cases, employers\u2014cannot do that. They carry the responsibilities with them day and night. That is a considerable burden that is not often appreciated. I have spoken to many employers over the years and I often asked them: \u201CHow many of your employees have ever thanked you for the job you have provided for them?\u201D. Mostly, they look at me in amazement, as it is a very rare occurrence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EIn my school days my mother often gave me an apple for the teacher. What was she teaching me here? She was simply teaching me to appreciate those who are instrumental in helping me on life\u2019s journey. She taught me to go through life being a giver rather than a taker, and that principle has never let me down. We are teaching people that it is a right to have an income whether or not they work, rather than teaching them that they have a responsibility to work\u2014if they are able\u2014and that if they continue to learn and to do their job diligently, then rewards will naturally follow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EMost responsible employers train their staff at their own expense to enable them to do the work that is required in that particular business, but this bill is not about that training. United Future could find no information about the likely compliance cost to employers, the effect on the labour market, the impact on trainees, or the physical cost to the Government, nor is there any hard data as to how many trainees are currently paid less than the minimum wage, although anecdotal evidence suggests that there are very few. This bill may even have the perverse effect of reducing training wages to a minimum, creating job losses, or making employers reluctant to take on untrained staff. United Future will therefore not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022 data-id=\u0022c99a3cbe87124ca198756abac05a5f81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c99a3cbe87124ca198756abac05a5f81\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E No one will be surprised that the ACT party will not support this bill. We regard minimum wage law as slogan law. It is cynical, and it trades on the fact that many people expect and hope the law will achieve what people claim to be its intentions, even when there is incontrovertible evidence that the intentions of a minimum wage law are rarely, if ever, achieved. Indeed, such a law is highly likely to hurt those whom it is most proclaimed to protect. The intention of Parliament, of course, is what the courts must try to ascertain when they are faced with a law, but in looking at a minimum wage law the intention is probably not what the objective is. There is a difference between the two. The objective of the parliamentarians who promote this kind of law is to obtain votes. It is to pay off their supporters, to avoid scrutiny, and to avoid a real look at what the law does in this area, whereas the proclaimed intention is to increase wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EOf course, the sorts of people who might be covered by a minimum wage amendment are likely to be those who are hired last\u2014the least attractive employees\u2014those for whom it is most easy to substitute a machine, and those for whom it is most easy to look for someone else to do the job and perhaps to pay that person a little more. So often a person on the minimum wage is actually under training. There is a concession, or there may be a genuine feeling of public interest\u2014altruism\u2014by an employer, who wants to give someone a chance. A minimum wage simply interferes with that prospect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThis bill is likely to be an \u201CAnti - Scruffy Person Bill\u201D, or an \u201CAnti - Inexperienced Person Bill\u201D. It will be a bill that achieves more unemployment for people who need a first job, and it will achieve less job training and more frustration by employers. This bill, by imposing a one-size-fits-all approach across the country, states that the employer cannot now take the most simple way of reflecting the fact that the law has also taken away other abilities. How many employers can actually enforce the expectation that when they take on someone, and that person spends 3 or 6 months learning the job, they will at least get a couple of years out of the person?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030522cdfa47e67ee744609c4df5eb4ca15210000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"