"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226293d52ce252425b8bffca6f37d0d5f2\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 September 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a574d3a4c50042ebbf8afffe6e56563a\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 September 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd043361a7fe4e508f5b905a694505db\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Observations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203d4a03c473746c0b47d95cab770b567\u0022\u003E11 September 2001\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u00227a588e6c17df45afbcaadfde2c09bdc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a588e6c17df45afbcaadfde2c09bdc4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite members to rise and observe a moment\u2019s silence before business commences, in memory of the events of 11 September 2001.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EHonourable members stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b2fd4a2bee04de39ee6a855076b6807\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc9a859423484a13bdda99b1c1e234fc\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022310cb8f09c4b4a9281bf02a1325226da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022310cb8f09c4b4a9281bf02a1325226da\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week in the House, on Tuesday and Thursday, priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill, and the New Organisms and Other Matters Bill. Wednesday is a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00226617f148687a4d2a825d27a23f0c51e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226617f148687a4d2a825d27a23f0c51e5\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (Senior Whip\u2014NZ National):\u003C/span\u003E Just to confirm, I ask the Deputy Leader of the House whether there is any chance of urgency next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3a55413d6dd421ba3b07432084996ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3a55413d6dd421ba3b07432084996ad\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E If the member is offering a negotiation I will be happy to meet with him on that, out in the lobbies. Without his offer, there will not be urgency at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002298f518a14efe4a57aa5f8d2405de8095\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298f518a14efe4a57aa5f8d2405de8095\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether I might ask the Leader of the House whether the Prime Minister will deign to pay a visit to the House to answer questions today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d09d222b9f41d79d68b5d46c14eb8a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002270ca0baeda76436e89d8b80b94105e1e\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a03a0937633a47929470c559dae94928\u0022\u003EPrivileges of the House and Speaker\u2019s Actions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb9b40681f54562b54bbc2fe012add3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb9b40681f54562b54bbc2fe012add3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to raise two matters with you, related to events of recent days. The first is the question of whether, over matters of order, you regard it as appropriate to address the House first, before you address the media. I refer to the press conference given yesterday by you, as the Speaker of the House, and also to the public comments made towards the end of last week regarding the actions of my colleague Shane Ardern MP. On a number of occasions in recent weeks, I, as Leader of the Opposition and as a parliamentarian, have asked you to explain various decisions you have made related to the order of the House. On a number of occasions you have simply decided not to give an explanation\u2014for instance, in the matter of Harry Duynhoven MP and his disqualification from Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EYet it seems that, when there is media interest in a matter as opposed to parliamentary interest, you are willing to comment on matters of order, publicly, before they are dealt with in the House. That happened in the case of your public comments on Shane Ardern last week, then again yesterday when a matter of order arose when GE protesters came into the House and disrupted its proceedings. In my view, you could have given an explanation today. But the matter of order was communicated by you through the media in what would have to be regarded as a very unusual process\u2014that is, by the Speaker calling a press conference regarding something that had happened in the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI have to say that that is leaving the Opposition perplexed. When we have asked for legitimate explanations of matters of privilege and order in this House, you have, at the very least, given us brief and unsatisfactory explanations and, on occasion, offered us no explanation at all, yet on other matters you have decided that it is fine to go out and make a range of public statements about matters of order, even before bringing them to the House. I ask you to outline for us whether your taking these matters up with the media rather than with Parliament amounts to a change in procedure for the Speaker, or whether we can regard the recent events as aberrations, and that legitimate matters of order will be dealt with by you in the House, where they are directly relevant to the processes of Parliament. That is the first matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe second one is the subject matter of the press conference yesterday. As you will know, the Opposition has expressed concern about the charge of disorderly behaviour being brought against a member of Parliament, Shane Ardern. We understand that that decision was made by the police and there has been debate about the circumstances in which the police decision was made. Yesterday, there were actions in this Chamber that, by any definition, fit disorderly behaviour. In addition to the fact that that behaviour disrupted the proceedings of the House in a way that is really quite unusual, you saw fit to make public comments about the nature of that behaviour. We understand that the result of whatever processes occurred is that those people will not be charged with disorderly behaviour, but that they have been issued with trespass notices. I believe that in light of different treatment for two sorts of protest actions\u2014one by an MP and the other by members of the public\u2014you owe this House an explanation about your role in the decisions that have been made. You have brought that requirement on yourself by making public statements yesterday about the nature of the protests and what actions you believe should flow from them. That is the second matter I want dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u00224c15717dfca643388e202dd05bc4d1e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c15717dfca643388e202dd05bc4d1e6\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E I was quite disturbed when I listened to the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s comments, because I am a member of this House and I was not even aware that you had made press statements about order to the press gallery and the public, but not to us as members of Parliament. I would have thought that on a matter of order in this House, if you thought it important enough, as a minimum you would give those comments to us first. Even if you do not decide that MPs should get an account before the media\u2014if that is how things now are\u2014perhaps we could have an accounting from you afterwards. I am finding your conduct quite difficult to follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EIn the case of Mr Harry Duynhoven, we find that you knew about the matter and that you decided to refer it to the Privileges Committee. You tell us that no MP would like the Speaker to make an instant judgment about whether a matter ought to be referred to the Privileges Committee, but when it comes to Mr Shane Ardern, you are prepared to give an instant judgment to the media. Perhaps it was not instant, because you gave it a number of times to the media. We need to have the Speaker reporting to us first, not to the press gallery, and the Speaker should certainly not be influencing others to come here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EAs this matter has been raised, I remind you that I asked you a number of questions yesterday. I do not know whether you have got around to thinking about them, but I would like to know whether the police did have your permission to come into this House and interview a member of Parliament. I am advised that the police are not allowed to come into the precincts of the Australian House of Representatives. So it is quite a serious matter. I would like to know whether they contacted you. If they did not, will you make an instant ruling on that matter? When we go back to our rooms, are we all to expect that police will be waiting, at the permission of the Speaker, to interview us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u002272f2d1ea3bf84b3b80d1892f6fce3410\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272f2d1ea3bf84b3b80d1892f6fce3410\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I want to thank the members who have raised the point of order. I will give it consideration and I will rule accordingly when I am ready to do so. There have been two points made, and I want to consider them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00221fa02dafc1574d1b8290bf26c21cca53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fa02dafc1574d1b8290bf26c21cca53\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In reflecting on both those submissions to you, could I also ask your assurance that you, as Speaker, had no part in the decision back in 1999 when a member had been admitted to this House with charges outstanding\u2014she was, I understand, facing charges of trespass on parliamentary property\u2014which were subsequently withdrawn by the police and not pursued. I would like an absolute assurance that that decision was made by the Minister of Police, the Commissioner of Police, or whoever was in charge\u2014and that you in no way had any bearing at all on the withdrawing of those charges Sue Bradford was facing as a result of her conduct here in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279d3ba66e03e41e2a66440ae35a41e05\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can give you that absolute assurance now. The other matters I will reflect on and I will give a ruling to the House, shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4106769426b469da35dd77b55e67553\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4106769426b469da35dd77b55e67553\u0022\u003ERICHARD WORTH (NZ National\u2014Epsom):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a similar point of order, but not exactly the same as the point of order raised by the Hon Richard Prebble. The proposition in respect of which National seeks a considered ruling is based on this: that the police breached parliamentary practice by entering Parliament to interrogate Shane Ardern on 9 September without the express authority obtained in advance from you. Further, the proposition is that in Parliament House the police are subject to your authority, and their powers are limited by the powers and privileges of the House. Those limitations are not based on any presumed sanctity attached to the building, but on the principle that Parliament should be able to conduct its business without interference or pressure from any outside source.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EAs Mr Prebble has said, it has been parliamentary practice in Australia, for more than 35 years, for the police not to have the power to enter Parliament to interrogate MPs without the express permission of the Speaker secured in advance. That issue is discussed\u2014I just give a reference to the Clerk\u2014in the Australian House of Representatives Practice at page 146. I am advancing the proposition that that should be the practice of this House, that there has been a clear breach of it if you did not give approval to the police to enter the premises to interrogate Mr Ardern, that the police are in breach of their obligations, and that you should take action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba7f2cd9736404b82e6a16327d25d3f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, I will look at that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022517a7ca9b21542fd981e591714133771\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022517a7ca9b21542fd981e591714133771\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. One thing I think that is being overlooked here\u2014and I would have hoped that it was made clear from the start\u2014is whether Mr Ardern agreed to it. There have been members of Parliament before who have been the subject of questions by the New Zealand Police within this precinct. But on every occasion that I can recall, it has been with the agreement of that member of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dbb988da10648eea1d7002e6a05cf8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am aware of that fact, and that is why I want to take advisement on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a55ab5988b124307a8b313d520bb0e6e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to say this. It is really not just over to what the Speaker thinks; if a member of Parliament wishes to assert his or her privileges, the member need only do that, where the police are concerned, within the precincts of this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b3fed7414c48f18bd507e2c21fa61c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will take that under advisement. I will come back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221616d9e45241454d9034c5242b04fbd0\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022793af4c66f404a429640847b315540a6\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c65cce1b76204dc5a35cadc69b427a84\u0022\u003EGenetic Modification\u2014Moratorium Expiry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff0418f91d354c9ab89e74be677ec9f7\u0022\u003E1. JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: In view of her statement reported on Sunday that \u201CA two-year moratorium enabled us to work through the recommendations. That work will be completed when the moratorium expires on October 29.\u201D, will the work in fact be completed by that date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u00223a563b9548af42d8a1d02cb4b744a377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a563b9548af42d8a1d02cb4b744a377\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, but please remember that the royal commission advised us that we were ready to proceed at the time of its report in October 2001. It expected that the work would be done simultaneously or under a call-in procedure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a11d73823cc94dd3985bb56c32d417f2\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done to implement royal commission recommendation 10.6 that all parties work to resolve the Wai 262 and Wai 740 claims, currently before the Waitangi Tribunal, as soon as possible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022754920b323594c639c88289034959456\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: That work is continuing. There has been work done with the Waitangi Tribunal on those particular issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a49431e3f985488398efd8630e771797\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Royal Commission on Genetic Modification recommend a moratorium on the release of genetically modified organisms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261b4e415b3f64746b4a5bd7856e3139c\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Government sought a 2-year moratorium on the release of genetically modified organisms to allow us time to do some of the necessary work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc89adb0a8c34f6aa3c2044ccecc7873\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why Labour, while in Opposition, made a huge deal with its moratorium of stopping a very small trial of a few hundred GM corn plants, where every plant had to be covered in a waterproof and pollen-proof bag, but just a year later turned a blind eye to an estimated 28,000 GM corn plants being unknowingly planted in Marlborough, Hawke\u2019s Bay, and Gisborne; and does she not now concede that the lack of testing of seeds was something of a joke and a political manoeuvre?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022144ed48b2d85496984fb701a567e31be\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: The member confuses the deliberate application, and the conditions set around an application, for testing or growing genetically modified organisms with the inadvertent contamination through importation of some\u2014maybe\u2014genetically modified seed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022001d4d14b31d4e269988e800c76a1fa2\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry developed an industry code of practice to ensure effective separation distances between GE and non-GE crops, as recommended by the royal commission, in recommendation 7.7; if not, how can her Sunday statement be accurate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b2ac4760229445298ea040e5f0627ce\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: When one takes an issue such as the code of practice around that, one actually has to have somebody practising the planting of crops. What the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry has already done is talk about the distances necessary when one is producing seeds and hybrid seeds and one wants to maintain the purity of that seed, which is the same sort of question that relates to genetically modified crops.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224806c8b1eb134f9f9f3efdfca2c0fe27\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied that the passage of the New Organisms and Other Matters Bill will ensure that New Zealand\u2019s regulatory regime is sufficiently robust to safely address applications for the commercial release of genetically modified organisms, in line with the royal commission\u2019s recommendations; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224faf9963e3f34e6db397106fdd29cc78\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because it gives the Environmental Risk Management Authority all the necessary tools to consider each application on its merits\u2014or demerits\u2014to assess risks and benefits, and to come to a careful decision based on all the relevant information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b2c996528cd4adba7b95345a621c9e5\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Government intend to address the fact that the lifting of the moratorium is likely to prevent fair resolution of some aspects of the Wai 262 claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8d81cc9b574fd485bcb3e729a9a05f\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: If there were an applicant who wanted to do some work on the tuatara\u2014which would obviously impact on the Wai 262 claim\u2014because the information is not there, that would be just the kind of evidence on which I would expect either to do a call-in or to ask the authority to have people placed on it who would be able to move that some step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d6e4d9ca764e50bc60f60bae462c76\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the moratorium has allowed the Minister\u2019s Government time to receive recommendations from a biotechnology strategy and a biotechnology task force report, why has the Minister taken no notice of those reports when it comes to reducing red tape for medium and high risk research, and why has she insisted on adding ethical, cultural, and spiritual matters to her call-in powers, which she knows will only entangle research applications in legal wrangling and costs, as it would with the Resource Management Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eed898f325234036a0c84f484bb7c90c\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: Because that was one of the recommendations of the royal commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294547b7cf0404d1bae7494a6762a64a5\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Further to my earlier question, has an industry code of practice around buffer zones been developed\u2014yes or no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4bf4a6b4f246b7960992f0859538a7\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: An industry code of practice for seed purity and buffer zones is in existence, but it is not there for genetically modified crops, because there are no genetically modified crops. So we are taking the application from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264ec45c2ed0d4b6ab7c2e400b5b5ec32\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a case of a Minister wasting the valuable time of parliamentarians, who have a limited time and a limited number of questions to ask. The Minister was being specifically asked, first by my colleague, as to whether there was a code of practice, and her answer was, in effect: \u201CWell, there being no plantings, there\u2019s no code of practice.\u201D That is a nonsensical statement, for a start, and we use up valuable time now asking whether there is a code of practice\u2014yes or no. But she goes into a long, waffling answer, and we are still none the wiser, after she is three-quarters of the way into it. Can we have an answer, please, to a very important matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1de37756baa4ba5a01cd4e2b95c0509\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I wonder whether the Minister wanted to make any further comment, because she has already addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022825ddf8126584697b2be799e87bc2917\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bc161e419c947faa1958c8707b3b586\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: If, at any stage, it becomes apparent that more work needs to be done before a particular application for the commercial release of genetically modified organisms can safely proceed, will she use her call-in powers to delay the application until such time as the necessary work is completed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022684508b51ae74524b93c3817416cebdf\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: The Environmental Risk Management Authority is required to decline applications if it does not have all the necessary information. What I have said is that I will use my call-in powers when applications have significant effects, as is laid out in the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e26aceada3e493ba5662e0504362550\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: What work has been done in response to the royal commission\u2019s recommendations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb2801a42e64519b44abe8c176a6cf3\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: The work completed in response to the royal commission\u2019s recommendations includes the setting up of the Bioethics Council, established in December 2002; the low-risk genetic modification regulations will come into force on the passage of the bill; Cabinet has considered papers on coexistence, raised by the member opposite; economic research was completed in 2003, and has been published, and is continuing; further funding was provided to the Environment Risk Management Authority to enable it to develop its framework for considering the economic implications of applications; the Biotechnology Strategy was released in May 2003; and additional funding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8b732b977e94c9db9280e10a246c0a2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer was too long. Supplementary question\u2014[Interruption] Order! Once I have called another supplementary question, anyone interjecting will leave. That is the only warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297589f112db246338b03314c553e41e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect, what we have had from you is a ruling that we cannot interject, but what you have just heard is unadulterated rubbish from a Minister on a critically important matter. Members who are responsible, and who have experience in this House, are asking serious questions. The Minister has no recall powers\u2014but she would not answer that question. There is no code of practice\u2014but she would not answer that question. We are none the wiser, and she invites interjections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239a8e1a240e41f5a15f3a6485115f3d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. That is not relevant. I have not ruled out interjections while the Minister is speaking, and the member knows it. I have ruled out interjections while questions are being asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed68395a4bbd400790c6dbde94e0b53b\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done to implement recommendation 7.3\u2014that the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry develop a strategy to allow continued production of GM-free honey and other bee products, and to avoid cross-pollination by bees of GE and GE-free crops?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf28efc603b741fda1c09f31a2862c7b\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry is investigating the use of a geographic information system - based register of GM crops, should they ever exist, to mitigate the impact of flowering GM crops on bee products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce5c0fe5f919419696d8940dba04d802\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: How are bee-keepers supposed to implement the ministry\u2019s published preferred approach, which is that they keep moving their hives 6 kilometres away from any GE crops, when the Government seems very reluctant to divulge the location of crops, and will she guarantee that this information will be available to bee-keepers who have no other option?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262da34c028fe4158a5dbca3c6f8bf2c1\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: I think we are at cross-purposes. The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry is actually telling me\u2014it may be telling the honourable member something different\u2014that it is going to have a geographic information system - based register, which, I presume, will be available to the bee-keepers concerned but not necessarily to protesters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200888fe83c6542e787c598a9217cca81\u0022\u003EMinisterial Confidence\u2014Immigration and Health Portfolios\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d6c6d8952b47f392f20b2fb9ccfcd6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she still have confidence in her Minister of Immigration and Minister of Health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9465dab59e4433fa947aded84f5b033\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9465dab59e4433fa947aded84f5b033\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment),\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, and yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c005ebd9d68464b8f265cfaa97cbd4b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How can she have confidence in those two Ministers when neither of them knows what is going on within her portfolio, with the Minister of Health producing separate figures for non - New Zealand and New Zealand - born people with tuberculosis that do not anywhere near add up to the number she gave for the total TB cases in New Zealand, and the Minister of Immigration blaming everything on loopholes or her undying duty to United Nations conventions and individual rights, even if that means allowing rapists, murderers, and abductors to stay in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daa6bff7d5ea461b8f335d118f95db74\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I can only reiterate that the Prime Minister has confidence in both the Minister of Health and the Minister of Immigration. On the matter of tuberculosis, for example, the Minister has been very clear about the number of people in this country with tuberculosis who end up in a hospital, and they are very, very small in number. The Minister of Immigration has moved in every case to close all the loopholes that were left by that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022977425f27779492fad75196d28f9ed8e\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Will the reductions in the cost of prescription medicines to a maximum of $3 for everyone enrolled to access primary health organisations, and for under - 18-year-olds and interim primary health-care organisations, which was widely announced by Annette King in the Budget, happen from 1 October as promised, yes or no; if no, how can she have any confidence in that Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f8210ee93d4419848fb1048d31b47e\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister of Health, of course, is rolling out primary health organisations right across the country, but I would need the member to put down that precise question so I can give a precise answer on the date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022067bd4a2c39d403eaa4a8c4e2e9e0784\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister not understand that the gap between the non - New Zealand, New Zealand - born, and total numbers is hundreds of people\u2014or do we have aliens living in this country all of a sudden\u2014and that between them those two Ministers have no idea what the true statistics are, nor any sense of responsibility as to how that is affecting the health of the New Zealand population in general?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ceb784ab59846a3bf2d15a3b2bf5356\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not aware of any aliens living in this country, as raised by the member, although there may be some in the House\u2014we do not know. I say once again that the Prime Minister has full confidence in both the Minister of Health and the Minister of Immigration, because both of them have been assiduous during the last 4 years in cleaning up the mess left by the previous Government, which that member belonged to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220451123f722d4a8780f623ace8d73ca3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think even the most mealy-mouthed supporter of the Labour Party realises that after 4 years it has to take responsibility. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9551a8f1774d84bbb53232428bad3d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I said there were to be no comments during points of order\u2014none at all. Mr Peters is entitled to make his point of order in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd91f2183a5f4f54824c0577b7253480\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The fact of the matter is that I am referring to a huge discrepancy between the figures released by Statistics New Zealand and those released by those Ministers. They cannot be reconciled. To then try to implicate me in respect of the outbreak of tuberculosis in this country is a disgrace, and is palpably untrue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218f949ccb0a345ffbcac62c79a68408d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very interesting debating point. It is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7a9710eb7b4bbc92f0ac684effd5f6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to table, for the benefit of the giggling member who calls herself the Minister of Immigration and the rest of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e2c8ce92b94e59880a6b903f065782\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What does the member wish to table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b43253583f8a4ef7a25bbc5853a297ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to table factual information that shows that apparently hundreds of people who have gone missing have got tuberculosis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f219a94278454b7aa327cb8c740da4d5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a470b008ace4531bd585d2383d58173\u0022\u003EForeshore and Seabed\u2014M\u0101ori Land Court\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992a03b7547249dcbc1c5e99f5a48e8a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Justice: In light of the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that \u201CIt is clear in the Government proposal that the M\u0101ori Land Court could not, as the end point of its work on a claim, go to fee simple title.\u201D, does this mean that the M\u0101ori Land Court will be prohibited from confirming customary title; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u002261c31694ee294cfa998b1a836ed01242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261c31694ee294cfa998b1a836ed01242\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The member is correct that the remedy of awarding a fee simple title is not available under the Government\u2019s proposals. What is precisely meant, however, by a customary interest, a customary right, or a customary title is currently the subject of discussions surrounding the Government\u2019s proposals. However, I note that a leading Canadian authority on aboriginal title stated that one dimension of it is its inalienability. Of course, as the honourable member will know, alienability is a defining characteristic of a fee simple title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8ec582f49a4d4d863f0e1a6226d797\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: If customary title is on the Government\u2019s agenda as a compromise, as Trevor Mallard has suggested, could that customary title amount to any form of rights of exclusion by the holders of that customary title?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e81f57d64eb4c838a15b425056a1226\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, precisely what is meant by a customary right or a customary title is currently the subject of discussions surrounding the Government\u2019s proposals, and no conclusion has been reached because the discussions are ongoing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eb30617e93144a1a99e4cc717c6363c\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government proposed that a fee simple title not be available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea3999b73e3e40e98a7f7804f90f9c59\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: A fee simple title gives the right to alienate land and therefore could prevent access to the foreshore and seabed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218d9e0d697f749b1b6702818f1734273\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister wrong when she says a customary right cannot be alienated, bearing in mind that New Zealanders, and specifically M\u0101ori, are concerned that their customary rights have been alienated by way of sale and in a non-restorative way, as in the Marlborough Sounds, and that the real question is what is the Government going to do to compensate those New Zealanders whose customary rights have been alienated and cannot be restored?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282838c76edd840a797fb443068f9f733\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The points raised by the member are precisely those that are under discussion at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6b7e55309d4015b73c76e3b1d93c82\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Can the House take it from the Prime Minister\u2019s answers today and yesterday that the M\u0101ori Land Court will be able to create any sort of title to the foreshore and seabed in favour of M\u0101ori, short of fee simple; if that is the case, why is there reluctance to front up at a hui?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022566c8b49368c43998f9b2d0b80611e1c\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The matters raised by the honourable member are precisely those that are under discussion at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252cf89640da64701bd1f9b940c4a5f47\u0022\u003EIan Ewen-Street\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister clarify precisely what the difference is between collective customary title and fee simple title?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccca616743a247a4813515d624fc4d96\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is considerable academic and judicial opinion on precisely what that means in various jurisdictions. That is why it is important that we do have a discussion, through the hui and with others members of the community, as to precisely what the terms mean in this context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ac69d8f45e04804932c72d60ba33c1f\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the Minister has ruled out fee simple title, which makes land saleable, and the Government has said that that is definitely off the agenda, will she rule out any kind of customary title that gives rights to exclude New Zealanders from the beach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d2c879a3fe149208adebd74434f182e\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The matter raised by the honourable member is precisely one of the many matters that are under discussion at the present time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e562b3d740a404781aafff8cf450713\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm the answer she has just given: that the Government does not rule out customary title that would include rights to exclude New Zealanders from the beaches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217df28cfb180488aa69960c3de35d6b1\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The fact that the Government has ruled out a fee simple title would obviously exclude it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231bb2d2be56d4a7385cb1f72bb3885f1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister now changed her mind between two different questions, as in answer to the first question she said that the Government would not rule out exclusionary rights going with customary rights, and then when I asked her again she did not seem to know what she was talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287718017e0b242d89e806021a398439f\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the confusion here is over what, precisely, is meant by \u201Ccustomary title\u201D. In my answer to the first question I said that was why we would have to look at that, because in other jurisdictions \u201Ccustomary title\u201D would mean that the land could not be alienated, and that is inconsistent with the fee simple title notion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d5e430dfd2c4ff5b8b63440da756a47\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a 24 June New Zealand Herald article that states: \u201CPrime Minister Helen Clark said ownership of the seabed and foreshore had long been considered to lie with the Crown and legislation would clarify that.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762220ad92ec408cb225e5859018b9a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that article. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6a61c070a4749b8a65bd90eb5bc8b6e\u0022\u003EImmigration Act\u2014Deportation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022586adaa74cc9424fbc9e4e8c70bfc604\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (NZ Labour\u2014Otaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Why did she seek changes to the law to enable the voices of victims to be heard in deportation cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8c52a3774f34f2fbb794ec8f04962cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8c52a3774f34f2fbb794ec8f04962cf\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E As a result of the Deportation Review Tribunal decision in the Zoraja case\u2014a case involving sexual violation\u2014I was concerned that victims of offences were not able to be heard in the deportation process. Given that the deportation decision involves the balancing of competing interests, I felt that was a serious omission in the law. As a result, I wrote to the Minister of Justice, who submitted it to the select committee, which agreed to add it to the Victims\u2019 Rights Act. The Act now requires both the Minister and the tribunal to have regard to any submissions made by a victim of an offence. Unfortunately, that law came into effect 6 days after the hearing of the Shaqlane case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a34bc0b2c1ab4be3924f3e51bba25de4\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Are there any other changes in the law that could be considered as arising from that case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a49b7474a9bb4f57966a08f3a8820e62\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: It is important that there is a right of appeal to the tribunal. As Minister, I make a decision on the papers. The tribunal has the advantage of hearing the evidence directly on appeal. I note that the previous Government did not itself amend the law, even though the tribunal overturned deportation orders in circumstances that the Minister of the day publicly disagreed with. It would be wrong to decline to reappoint members of the tribunal because the Minister of Immigration did not like its decisions, as was alleged against the then Minister of Justice, the Hon Tony Ryall, in 1999.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e067b3ca614a4ec1a576b867a8ecd760\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is so concerned about the rights of victims in deportation cases, why did she ignore requests from the victims of Mohammed Saidi who preyed on vulnerable New Zealand women, bearing in mind that he was a bogus refugee, a suspected drug-smuggler, a suspected people-smuggler, and had links to a fundamentalist terrorist group, but about whom she wrote to his former wife the following: \u201CSometimes these avenues considerably lengthen the time a person can remain in New Zealand but it is essential that their case receives a fair hearing and that the principles of fairness and natural justice are applied.\u201D; when did she show any compassion then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229be8cb75d60d4abb94314cb72b0b4889\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: If that member would like to table all the correspondence I have had with that individual, it would be very clear that I have made very strong representations to that individual in terms of how sympathetic I feel towards those women. I make the point\u2014and that member should make the point to others\u2014that that law existed when he was the Minister. At least I made changes to the law that meant victims could be heard in our deportation process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c5fa47cd47c4efcae35cddac9152668\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: Do probationary periods of residence apply to recent residence permit holders; if so, how do they apply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb8d14db0aa4b1c88f3115193881173\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Immigration Act allows the Minister to order the deportation of a person who is convicted of an offence committed within 2, 5, or 10 years of being granted a permit, depending on the length of the sentence that could be imposed. There is no question of double jeopardy, as asserted by some community groups. Residence is a privilege, not a right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801f3e30fdaa4396a942ffd04257c277\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s answer to the question prior to the last one, does she not realise that the person about whom I talked was to be deported, but she herself decided that he should not be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fde55b01fe95426c86fbfd902623c2f7\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c0af6ffcc9b4252b52ce2d3d5cc3354\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, you did. In short, the Minister said: \u201CTo hell with the victims\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdcdecbd6b854c2ab6fd64e6865dbaa8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not actually say anything, but I know that the member was referring to the Minister, who may comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201bf07945c434eb68193317a97f537a3\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: My recollection is that the decision in the Saidi case was determined by the Removal Review Authority, which made a determination that he could remain in the country and apply for residence on the basis of his new relationship. I did not have any say in the matter whatsoever. I continue to make the point that if the member wanted to do anything about the immigration rules in this country, then he would have changed them when he was the Deputy Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9d6c05abe04a40b68ae8586ecc7c71\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was too long an answer; the last part should not have been said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004549ed7c4d49499eb1e76b0afec262\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek to table the various letters from this very conscientious and hard-working Minister, who allowed that person to get permanent residence under her time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e9f5598e354cecb3b99bacc400c278\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those letters that the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220143499fbe744df5b72395d58f1f65ef\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You want the full picture, don\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220807e8766b854fce958d342eca25af29\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has already said she will allow that to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002287948e6a09fa4e1a8fe978f74d68129e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcb6c47b95954171adcf4942a8f83b04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcb6c47b95954171adcf4942a8f83b04\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (NZ National):\u003C/span\u003E Noting that Mr Hodgson is not available to answer this question, I seek leave to hold the question over to the next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8eeda48dbd64c89bb4f721a45ab15e8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to hold the question over. Is there any objection? There is. Please ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225c26b8e54bd41ddad6ea75822d32a7f\u0022\u003EAgriculture\u2014Agricultural Emissions Research Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7dee22bfe1442baa743bc0768ffb262\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (NZ National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Convenor, Ministerial Group on Climate Change: Has the Government withdrawn or declined part-funding any research aimed at decreasing agricultural greenhouse gas emissions and increasing productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022610035030a0a47269d43029a377d2188\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022610035030a0a47269d43029a377d2188\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister for Racing)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Convenor, Ministerial Group on Climate Change: The Government\u2019s investment in research into agricultural greenhouse gas emissions is now more than five times what it was in 1999. Researchers compete for this funding, and while some have succeeded, others have not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ded2ea54023c43f4adf2b6c1ba77cc0f\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister therefore aware of a project at Lincoln University that was being funded two to one by the private sector, which could potentially reduce nitrous oxide emissions by 80 percent, and is now under threat because it was rejected in the latest Government funding round? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741d346b8d4248f194ddc7c14dc77292\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I have been informed of that situation. The reality is that applications for money from the Foundation for Research, Science and Technology in this area are 300 percent over-subscribed. It is not the Minister\u2019s role to make judgments on which projects should be supported, but the reality that so many people are making applications indicates a growing awareness of the importance of this issue, and the enthusiasm with which mainstream organisations are taking it on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c574e16ad8d545e88521d770ee28f28d\u0022\u003EJanet Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government continue its current level of investment in research into agricultural greenhouse gas emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7caa26aa81f45ec9508b9c13cebf27b\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Government intends to continue investing almost $5 million a year of taxpayer funds in agricultural greenhouse gas emissions research. As I said earlier, this is more than five times the level invested in 1999 under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273731c83f7c746c3b7f660382787cf2b\u0022\u003EGerrard Eckhoff\u003C/span\u003E: How many carbon credits of the 4 million recently released by the Government and appropriated from the wider agricultural industry have been given to Meridian Energy for supposed climate-friendly developments in New Zealand, and how many carbon credits from the same source have been given to the agricultural industry to fund research into supposed climate-friendly developments such as methane emissions from livestock?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d5900d651a432da7413906878dc5b6\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer that question as I am not aware of any carbon credits being allocated either to Meridian Energy or to farmers, although I am aware that any farmers who put some of their land or forest into permanent protection will receive the credits for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b98fc605190047809b9d2473879863ab\u0022\u003EBernie Ogilvy\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have concerns regarding the criteria that the Foundation for Research, Science and Technology must use when deciding on applications, given that research projects that are of obvious value to New Zealand\u2019s economy are being rejected; if so, what will he do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297dab3acbcbc49068cfb51dbcb3197d5\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that the Foundation for Research, Science and Technology is well focused and assesses all of these applications in a very fair and comprehensive way. They are all very important. As I said before, the fact that there are so many applications for research focused on agricultural greenhouse gases indicates a growing awareness of the situation and its importance for New Zealand\u2019s economy into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c4bcafb09a4e16bc7953cc1842b1bd\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government not now planning to invoke the flatulence tax until 2012, as stated in a newspaper article written by the member of Parliament for Invercargill, Mark Peck, who also stated in the same article that farmers would now be the recipients of the transfer of their own carbon credits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d87c124ff62402db434c1c2d0672a73\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That member is not correct. There will be no emission taxes until 2012 in respect of the agricultural sector. What has been proposed\u2014and might not yet be necessary\u2014is that the agricultural sector be asked to contribute towards a research levy to the tune of $8.4 million. The Government is actively engaged with industry leaders in an attempt\u2014and I am sure a very optimistic attempt\u2014to reach a suitable outcome in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223da77e1ef80b4e5cb3ee5d299c79fbe6\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article written by Mr Peck, entitled \u201CNever let the facts spoil a good story\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bd9687732a94e35acc659a0972300a1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table the article. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022684780e0724a4f0999ce6b887d831e08\u0022\u003EContaminated Sites\u2014Remediation Programmes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8bff1328c564f3bbeef5893baa19da1\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (NZ Labour\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What progress is the Government making towards implementing remediation, and instituting clear management programmes, for all high-risk contaminated sites?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u0022a24b057590db4273874c2d8964c7cbb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a24b057590db4273874c2d8964c7cbb3\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E This week Cabinet agreed to give all regional councils access to an expanded Contaminated Sites Remediation Fund to investigate and clean up contaminated land in their areas. This is a significant step towards removing the unwanted legacy of contaminated sites by 2015, which is one of our key environmental election pledges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eb757b0577148b1934ecabcafc09512\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Which sites in particular will get priority for the $9 million worth of funding in the extended Contaminated Sites Remediation Fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef38b81682944ec2a412833166a2f00b\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: Contaminated sites can pose a severe risk to human health and to the environment. Therefore, we will give priority to those sites that present the highest risk to people\u2019s health and their environment, and where landowners do not have the financial resources to undertake the work themselves. We will work in partnership with regional councils, district councils, and landowners who have the local knowledge and technical expertise, to investigate and remediate the contaminated sites of concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ffb344f2f7d439daf4d88d3e0a0ded7\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that all New Zealanders have a right to know whether they are living near or on a contaminated site, and what progress has been achieved in developing a public register of all contaminated sites in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e45945128a3e4e389fa3abb166b24f5a\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: Regional councils have made some progress\u2014not 100 percent progress\u2014towards establishing a list of contaminated sites in their own areas, and the fund we have set up is an incentive for them to complete that list and have it accessible and on record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7225e61390b4d87ad8e0a9fa3b86b08\u0022\u003EGenetically Modified Sweetcorn\u2014Contamination Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022044d1980739845f098d514fd1db21b74\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (NZ National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Research, Science and Technology: How does he reconcile his statement to the House on 9 September regarding testing of suspected genetically modified sweetcorn that \u201COne needs to get a positive result for both parts to get a positive test.\u201D and the Prime Minister\u2019s statement of 11 July 2002 that \u201C\u2026 in order to conclude that there might be GE presence you have to have positive tests across two gene sequences.\u201D, with the protocol on GM contamination in sweetcorn seed imports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u00222bc31f14074e4427b7a22659555f99d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bc31f14074e4427b7a22659555f99d7\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Research, Science and Technology: Easily. Both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Research, Science and Technology were referring to tests for the only available GM sweetcorn variety, Bt11, which requires positive tests at both ends to give a positive result. This contrasts with the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry protocol established some months later, which also accounts for potential cross-contamination by GM maize varieties, some of which contain only one of the gene sequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695a66bfefb94469b9415c016b06bd3c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister say \u201Csome months later\u201D, when the protocol on GM contamination in sweetcorn plants was agreed to by the Environmental Risk Management Authority, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry on 18 June 2001\u2014a whole year before the Prime Minister\u2019s misleading statements, and 2 years before Pete Hodgson\u2019s incorrect statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431a13a498c947efb8db95983d96d121\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, an interim protocol was established and published on 19 December 2000. It was followed up by a protocol that included both sweetcorn and maize\u2014and therefore this follows on the answer I have already given\u2014and that has since been revised again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8c32057e554c45859ba291d9c51f9f\u0022\u003EMark Peck\u003C/span\u003E: What varieties of GM sweetcorn exist, and how many of the test gene sequences do they have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022891a5a8ec0e34c53ad6c62589dc3eca8\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: There is, and has been, only one variety of commercial GM sweetcorn. It contains both gene sequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb84a6d84d8f43fab7d6787ba256587d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: If that explanation is correct, why does the protocol on GM contamination in sweetcorn\u2014not corn\u2014issued a year before the \u201Ccorngate\u201D issue arose, say that there are 10 varieties, of which the Prime Minister\u2019s statement is correct for only four, and, most important, that we are to conclude that there is GM material even if there is a positive test for just the 35s gene sequence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb92b8c50ab24cd9bca4ebcff527afb0\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: The protocol developed at that particular time included the possibility of cross-contamination between some maize and some sweetcorn. It also pointed out that in an event of such cross-contamination, it is visible to the eye and does not need absolute testing. That is the specification of a thing called a dent\u2014one can see the difference in the plant and in the seed without having to test it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab516897d9334698849ac23303b6bc7e\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Why do the Minister and the Prime Minister think that the only possible source of contamination is from commercially available varieties of corn, when there have already been cases of public record where corn has been contaminated with varieties that have not been commercially released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dd0893beeb545e38b65a73b44de7548\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: At the time the quotes are referring to\u2014the testing that was done at the time of the GM scare in November-December 2000\u2014the best advice of the scientists was that the corn being brought into the country could contain Bt11, because that was also grown in the particular valleys where the corn seed came from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eeda2895aee4507ad27b408e7409eef\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that the Prime Minister herself has said on National Radio that she does not have a strong interest or background in science, why would we believe her view over the protocol signed off by the Environmental Risk Management Authority, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry on the GM contamination of sweetcorn seeds? Which is correct\u2014the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, or the protocol that was signed off on 18 June 2001?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf43b6537fce455d9f6d243539a882bc\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: I go back to the answer to the original question, which said that the questions being answered by both the Prime Minister and Pete Hodgson were with regard to the testing of sweetcorn at that time, whereas the protocol is about sweetcorn, maize, and possible cross-contamination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e9af3ec15a54361beb1e38ce1ecdefb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table not a protocol on any other type of maize, but the protocol on GM contamination in sweetcorn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228756327c71764d49960a36682de4718b\u0022\u003EConservation, Department\u2014Tourism Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259cc1eb8c76f435da06d23e6b07475be\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE (NZ Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What initiatives has he taken to improve cooperation between the tourism sector and the Department of Conservation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u002285ee1cc4656b4acfa97684dcfc2905ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285ee1cc4656b4acfa97684dcfc2905ff\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E On Tuesday I announced, at the New Zealand Tourism Industry Association\u2019s annual conference, a number of initiatives I have taken to build a strong tourism-conservation partnership with mutual benefits. These initiatives include improvements to the processing and monitoring of concessions, setting nationally consistent policies on visitor use and access to conservation areas, and reducing pressures on the tourism hotspots by spreading visitor numbers over wider areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257771316cf744216b3a597201f181feb\u0022\u003EDavid Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister elaborate on the gains for conservation and tourism that he sees in such a more collaborative approach by both sectors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695a0391ad2943169b0a57831ce39f37\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I see a win for both conservation and tourism. For example, a disused quarry at Oamaru has been transformed into an expanding colony of little blue penguins, or koror\u0101. Numbers have increased from 14 breeding pairs to over 100. This initiative has led to better protection of the penguins, and it attracts a growing number of tourists each year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002272fef370f7a842559ffe016d56e9194b\u0022\u003ERates\u2014Legislation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff7c7223b34f4d1dafaa93433ef9d6fb\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (NZ National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does he agree that the Local Government Act 2002 and other recent Government legislation have contributed to the large increases in rates many ratepayers have faced this year as stated by Local Government New Zealand President, Basil Morrison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8eab947ed4240aabcd6c6e972b6706e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8eab947ed4240aabcd6c6e972b6706e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E No. The Local Government Act 2002 makes it clear that it is the responsibility of a council\u2019s elected members to make decisions on the services that a council provides. Those members are, of course, accountable to their communities for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185e1aaf581740319a2d3cc10016d558\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What option did those local authority representatives have for dealing with the added compliance costs that the Minister\u2019s Government has added to local councils\u2014for example, extra dog control, building control, and prostitution and gambling regulatory functions\u2014how is it their decision on those costs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca79b49ca7e04e8b847f9b797c13ba3a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: While it is appropriate for local authorities to fund services that principally benefit their communities, local authorities have a wide range of funding mechanisms to recover those costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276890d46c6724188b02cac2dc9ac12a6\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports about the financial impact of the Local Government Act on local authorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225654413c98604cd595b555adb9c218f3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have seen a report in which the Southland District Council\u2019s chief executive, Michael Ross, stated that the Local Government Act was based on sound principles that would benefit ratepayers. His mayor, Frana Cardno, said that the Act is actually saving funds, because we have the ability to work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4e121177f434ee3ab13c7dfe3353ff2\u0022\u003EJim Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile the recent rates rises, which are the first in a long-term process of meeting the costly obligations under the new Act, with the Minister\u2019s statement in June that the Local Government Act 2002 would \u201Cmake it harder for councils to increase rates without good reason.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f6225995af846e191be294be7e90966\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: From 1 July this year, the Local Government Act 2002 became operative. In the setting of rates in the next financial year, councils will be obliged to engage with their communities in determining those rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb60a6dcb035406cb9d40cca217eb0c7\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister be supporting my Local Government (Rating Cap) Amendment Bill being referred to a select committee, or is he worried that local bodies will be coming to Parliament to submit to the bill, and putting the blame fairly and squarely on this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf7df50d8f5e47db8d975b9c3d253f10\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f0043c7bcc4f5ab1f89dcdafe16199\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister disagreeing with the president of Local Government New Zealand, Basil Morrison, who has conducted a survey of all the local authorities with the largest rate increases planned in the country, and who says that those rate increases are because of the added requirements of the legislation of that Minister\u2019s Government; why is he disagreeing with Mr Morrison and the councils and believing that he himself is correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226051bfd35cb34a3db029f1932dbf18c3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to report to the House that I engage very regularly in discussions with Basil Morrison, and will continue to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3e76e1678e74b96b31a0ed6378beaac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member must address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f77104fbd2fe44febc4c34389df9c4a1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: There are many things that Mr Morrison and I agree on. There are some things we disagree on. What I can tell this House\u2014as I have just done\u2014is that Mr Morrison and I will continue to dialogue with each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dbe7bf91e5a4059b157463c1616170b\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: In order to assist the House, can I table the report of Local Government New Zealand, which confirms what Mr Morrison, the president, said and rejects the Minister\u2019s claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bbb2c63d428443f9c85ae3302430854\u0022\u003ETranz Rail\u2014Toll Holdings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6d1dac595b4fa7b8b3248e013219cf\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: In the event Toll Holdings does purchase Tranz Rail, has the Government got an arrangement with Toll Holdings to purchase the rail track, and are there any assurances of major track or operational development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf1cb41a3b4849e59f95a01d52416946\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf1cb41a3b4849e59f95a01d52416946\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Finance: Yes and yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229160c0a3748e4429b476913baec16666\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any truth in the assertion, which is circulating in both this country and Australia, that should Toll be successful in taking ownership of Tranz Rail, we will end up with only two main railway line freight services\u2014namely, Auckland to Wellington and the coal line into Lyttelton\u2014and that Toll will switch much of the current rail freight on to road; is there any truth in that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8d6f4b1a1a943489a2c5e07a79a0754\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, because the development finance that is vital for the Toll takeover is subject to an agreement with the Government on a line-by-line, project-by-project basis, and that money is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a7e0c51db284cc39ee2dbd7a9ac25a6\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: What commitments has the Government made with regard to the track?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d343ed77ac44187a12b8f96d419eb7b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Three commitments: to secure the rail as a vital piece of the transport infrastructure; to buy back the rail network given away by the National Government for $1; and to invest $200 million over the next 4 years in maintenance and improvements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afeb6628ae34486d85882ff7e20ca54d\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister guarantee to the House that maintenance spending undertaken by Track Co. will in fact be the $200 million he just outlined, and will not cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241d5e602fae6449f85755d8b14b609c5\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: There is provision for more than $200 million to be spent, if it becomes an infrastructural priority for this Government, and I say to that member that his privatisation of this asset gave away one of our prize infrastructures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c8e5c7a82fc4e4aa07f908e4f2211af\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would just ask the Minister not to indulge himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7cb5aed680d4270afe992f3b024df22\u0022\u003EMike Ward\u003C/span\u003E: What are the priorities for the investment of the $200 million that the Government has committed, once Track Co. is established?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c31602a51f7441a2b04078d2874e2527\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Those priorities will be worked through by a joint working-group of the Government, Toll, and the subsidiary, with the proviso that at the end of the process the Government has a veto power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8cbba32a94e46428d2a1eedb9410502\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting those answers, will the Minister give this House a categoric assurance that, as a result of Toll purchasing Tranz Rail, more freight will go from road on to rail\u2014and not vice versa, as is being claimed in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2daa195aa3c4fd69c16fdc33e83b9af\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is just inevitable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251356f6df3f94587a233efb74df5b339\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article in the Australian newspaper that says the exact reverse of what the Minister has said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229951d5ec34114f1181366a72f8a032b1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db718eca193f42f8a379e55114f2ec8c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table, for Mr Mallard\u2019s benefit, a press statement from the Labour Party, of 20 July 1993, stating that it agreed with the sale of railways, but it did not agree with the timing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233a817db4a884c45abedf0a43d1a4944\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to point out the fact that Richard Prebble was the state services Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e49c127fdca4134bcff44e23758b7ea\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3210ff9544f48d6ac53ab1b1309af8a\u0022\u003EForeshore and Seabed\u2014Court of Appeal\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269baab1c7326437993afe007b05a4b88\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT NZ)\u003C/span\u003E to the Attorney-General: Has the Government considered appealing or seeking a rehearing of the seabed and foreshore case in the Court of Appeal on the grounds that gave Pinochet a rehearing in the House of Lords; if so, why has no application been made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00226483ea2a0658458fa1dee2f01b6d0462\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226483ea2a0658458fa1dee2f01b6d0462\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E \u201CNo\u201D is the answer to the question. The reason is that this Government has every confidence in the Court of Appeal and in the judiciary generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce7bfd419e5240269d95242c8d1d3e09\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government got that confidence, and why has it not considered challenging that decision, when the Attorney-General said, 5 days after the decision, that she would pass a law to overturn it; when it reversed 40 years of settled law; when it made other laws unworkable, without regard for parliamentary sovereignty; and when, in comparison with the conflicts of Lord Hoffman in the Pinochet case, the appeal would be a no-brainer as the leading Court of Appeal judge had an unchallengeable appearance of bias in favour of M\u0101ori ownership of the seabed and foreshore, whatever her actual state of mind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c90ea4f43394d13b3c28fd980ae9fba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The first part of the question is in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236bb8da9ae61427695fef3da306159ad\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Court of Appeal decision was on one point, and that was that there was a right to take the matter to the M\u0101ori Land Court. There seemed no reason for the Government to appeal that decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a29590a7564986a9b3206533a12c35\u0022\u003ERichard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: What stance will the Crown take on the appeal by the Marlborough District Council to the Privy Council, given that the Crown is a party to the appeal and cannot withdraw from it, because the Crown has to be bound by the appeal; will the Crown support the appellant\u2014as it has in the past\u2014or will it backtrack and oppose the appeal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280d64b0ecf4747ab95db21851bd63664\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government decided not to appeal in its own right. It knows there is an appeal and it will stand by whatever decision comes from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227907289925fc4b53b65721b76131ed6d\u0022\u003ERichard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is not an answer to the question that I asked. It is quite clear that the Crown is not appealing in its own right, but it is a party to the appeal, and I asked whether the Crown would support the appeal or oppose the appeal, given that it is a party to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097e2d2ae8634cdd98d9c64982e9440a\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise; I thought it was obvious that we will take a neutral position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f3524285a143b2a1717f89ea0484ea\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: Why should we not conclude that the real reason for the Crown not appealing is that the Attorney-General wants a top court to be free to make politically correct laws that a House elected by the people would not pass; otherwise, why would the Supreme Court Bill provide that the Chief Justice must in future sit on every case that goes to final appeal, and end our right of appeal to an independent tribunal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604f8b6b9588400dbe0472eeb14cec2f\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government upholds the rule of law; an essential component of this is the independence of the judiciary. It is demonstrably clear from the member\u2019s question that he does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285c8f315dd7840dba9cd46019e134d9a\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government not appeal the Court of Appeal decision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6cebd25b0de49baa49ac60f8a66bd4b\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government considers that the questions raised by the Court of Appeal as a result of its decision can best be addressed through our working through the issues, which is what we are doing in the present consultation process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1c01dff6d174c81a417dc2ac78d609e\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think the House of Lords was wrong to hold that even a Pinochet had a right to be heard by impartial judges; and why is she ramming through the Supreme Court Bill, which will leave New Zealanders at the mercy of a court that thinks it is OK for a judge to sit on issues on which he or she has shown in advance a passionate commitment to one side?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a04e6de92e4ae18637e9326d5aeb26\u0022\u003EHon MARGARET WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is absolutely no evidence of any bias\u2014which is the allegation the member has made\u2014on the part of any judge in the Court of Appeal. I note that there is a convention and a Standing Order in this House that we do not criticise judges personally; we may criticise judgments, but not judges personally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b588fdc69884029bdfe621a0f4dc6c3\u0022\u003ELocal Government\u2014Ministerial Responsibility\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224772ee5f4e894b23b23016cbc100bc57\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does he continue to stand by his statement that \u201CAs Minister of Local Government, it is my responsibility, and indeed my privilege, to act as an advocate for local government.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u00229efb6fd6973e420cbf1138a4702e2dc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229efb6fd6973e420cbf1138a4702e2dc2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I do. I am only too pleased to say that, as Minister of Local Government, I advocate local decision-making by, and on behalf of, communities. That is the purpose of local government, and, on that basis, I can say that I am privileged to perform my responsibilities as Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa9eba46b7043bd8948e970dcedebb7\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: As advocate for local government, is the Minister concerned that developing by-laws to control brothels, in response to the prostitution legislation, will push rates up even further, when, for Auckland City Council alone, the initial phase cost $35,000, or is that just another case of local government having to pick up the tab for bad law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc69eae941094f6f9b1ea5e7f19a9b08\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Local Government Act 2002 requires councils to engage with their communities in decision making. Local by-laws relating to the sex industry should have public input. Whatever initial costings may occur in that consultation process will be balanced by agreed long-term, local solutions to the issues of location and operation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f42e39b10a458492c6a844b789660f\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: What steps has the Minister recently taken to engage with local government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224639a18e5e0744218e20221398864e25\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I regularly meet mayors and councillors. Over the last month I have attended a number of Local Government New Zealand meetings. I spoke to the Society of Local Government Managers conference in Palmerston North last Sunday, and I am currently arranging a forum between Ministers and Auckland mayors and chief executives to discuss a range of issues relating to the Auckland region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b9499d4eb64de891dada5988aeec5f\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of all this engagement, hui, and meeting with local government, when the Government takes absolutely no notice of that engagement; when one looks at the extra cost of the dog control legislation, the proposed building control legislation, the prostitution legislation, and now the gambling regulatory functions, what is the point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296ca0c3e43c24c5591246db4675167b8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No Government has had more engagement with local government than this one. One very obvious example is the 6-monthly local government forums, where the Prime Minister meets mayors and councillors. It is a very positive and productive relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220881fbcfad8d46548f4f1bdea134986b\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: As the advocate for local government, what is the Minister\u2019s response to the inquiry from the Auckland City Council asking why the prostitution legislation keeps secret the names of those holding brothel-keeping certificates, when individuals and businesses seeking liquor licences have to advertise their names; and is that not a perverse and most unsatisfactory state of affairs for local government bodies and the communities they govern?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3869b5c73c44d539d54fdfa18cac645\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Local Government Act 2002 contains clear bylaw-making powers that provide local government with full power over signage and location. Of course, fees can cover the costs of those applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e51a4ac99aa4e8cacd5350b701925cf\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was not about signage; it was about those people who hold brothel-keeping certificates having to keep that information secret. That information is not available to the public. I also asked the Minister whether he thought that was a perverse and unsatisfactory state of affairs. I do not believe that he addressed my question in his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d3a48028224d9fa9b95a19608dee9a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps that part of the question could be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022853e9b46ba7f46aaa6781fca4e4225ba\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I will acknowledge that I did become confused with that question; perhaps the volume of noise in the House made it a bit difficult to hear properly. That requirement was passed by a majority of members in this House. It had the support of this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5a4db6a21c648b990f10b794add6045\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: As advocate for local government, does he concur with the view of Juliet Yates, the chairwoman of the Auckland City Council\u2019s city development committee, that the legalisation of prostitution has handed the council a job it did not want, which is a view supported by councillor Noeline Raffills, who intends formally to express to the Government the council\u2019s concern that it has to administer the new Act; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7779d45f34145a7a701124c8fca2178\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to remind those councillors quoted that the sex industry already existed in Auckland\u2014probably from the foundation of the city\u2014but at least now the city has greater control over the industry, and health and safety issues can be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9be3be7f6264ead959eca2cbf18f0ec\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Why will the Minister not become an advocate for ratepayers and support my bill going to the select committee, thus giving ratepayers a chance to tell Parliament what they think about rate increases and what they think about this Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d28e3a46b9a456b862e30a36d182193\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Local Government New Zealand has given me a clear message that it does not support Mr Hide\u2019s bill. I was thinking about that as he asked the question, and I remind him how we dialogue so well with other organisations. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b7e4f617ffb43438efdde472590f6c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not appreciate people shouting out like that. It is unbecoming and unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550642e4d5924403a5d3fdb73c284691\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The suggestion that Local Government New Zealand is on the take is an obscene suggestion. I ask that it be withdrawn and apologised for by Mr Hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ecc8f1b811d4499b23fff22c844c69c\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: The first point is that Local Government New Zealand is not part of this House, so one can say what one likes about it. The second point is that local government itself is putting up the rates, and the Minister has indicated to the House that he does not give a hoot about the public. He is interested in his fellow politicians only. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229630482bc8e41d1837b61cffa293cfb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s first point of order was valid. What is said about people outside this House is a matter of taste, as far as this Parliament is concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c777b7c3d584afaa3162df7d1093925\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: As advocate for local government, will the Minister give his full support to councils\u2014Kapiti, Rodney, and others\u2014that wish to ban completely prostitution from their areas by means of their bylaw-making powers, and also to the Auckland City Council, which wishes to seize the initiative to propose restrictive by-laws; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223cbc6cfb6124dfab976f04d0d9cc253\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I will continue to dialogue with local government and encourage it to seek local solutions to local problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b08bad078854cb7b8b8befb8c4131f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This Minister was asked whether he would support those councils seeking to ban prostitution within their boundaries. To get up and say he is going to keep on dialoguing with them\u2014which must be a horrifying experience for all of them\u2014is simply not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d3f86e9ba94612b800f13bde816df6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Horrifying it might be, but the answer did address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b186a7eed0c4c5da7b90d22e3c00a82\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9981b71fd614f9f9ca78f7e18e954d2\u0022\u003EPoint of Order\u2014Maritime Security Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u00221c37e255531d4bc9b8c8f65705004b8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c37e255531d4bc9b8c8f65705004b8e\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Senior Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It has been drawn to my attention that last night New Zealand First\u2019s vote\u2014and I think National\u2019s and ACT\u2019s\u2014was recorded incorrectly as being against sending the Maritime Security Bill to the select committee. We are most certainly in favour of that, and I seek leave to have our vote reversed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022586c1f9e11e44a5d96369148d450eb8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022586c1f9e11e44a5d96369148d450eb8f\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014NZ National):\u003C/span\u003E It is the same for National. We voted 27 in favour of the bill being referred to the select committee. We also seek leave that the vote be changed and accurately recorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241578b634e544836a50116eb8c8c4562\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will get the list, but I am advised by the Clerk that that apparently was not the case. But, certainly, I will get the list, and there is a perfect right to have that changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235755d65985c4f45b395dd305d231a52\u0022\u003EHealth Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235755d65985c4f45b395dd305d231a52\u0022\u003EHealth and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235755d65985c4f45b395dd305d231a52\u0022\u003EMedicines Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f96ff5388554ae8b67804f49ed44527\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000261\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 10 September.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0d3e86439024896b27ee2ecd16be351\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0d3e86439024896b27ee2ecd16be351\u0022\u003EDr LYNDA SCOTT (NZ National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E The Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill was 272 pages, but has now been split into three bills. It was comprehensive legislation that failed abysmally to measure up to the standard that it should have reached. The bill originally sought to have 11 Acts of Parliament included under one Act, to ensure the competence of health practitioners throughout New Zealand to be able to practise safely, to protect the public, and to assure quality assurance in the ongoing education and credentialing of people involved in health practitioner competence. The bill did not achieve that. In the Health Committee we worked very hard to try to make improvements to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EBut it should not have been a political bill. It should have been the sort of bill that everybody round the select committee table could agree on and work on, but that did not happen. One has to ask why. One has to sheet it back to the Minister of Health. The Minister of Health had not asked the ministry the hard questions in the development of the bill. She should have sent the bill back to the select committee. She should have sent it back, for the ministry to go back to those people who were so concerned about the bill, until she got it right, until the ministry got it right, and until people were happy with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003ESome of the people included under the bill\u2014physiotherapists, occupational therapists, and dental technicians\u2014have Acts of Parliament that are very old, dating from 1947 and 1956. They were very pleased to get new legislation. But the doctors, the medical practitioners in this country, absolutely opposed the bill. They work under an Act that was brought in by the National Government\u2014the 1995 Medical Practitioners Act. The bill was supposed to be modelled on that Act of Parliament. Initially, the doctors said that was fine, because they are very happy with the 1995 Act. They think it has solved about 30 years of problems. They were happy for the bill to go ahead, based on that. But that was not what happened. What happened was some very new things were introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EOne of those things was scopes of practice. They were not defined on paper. There were no academic pieces of work that people could subject to peer review, to decide what exactly scopes of practice meant and how they would affect health practitioners in this country. There was no intellectual rigour applied to this concept. It is not practised anywhere in the world. The only place in America that thought it might go down this line has not implemented it, because it has been too difficult. Scopes of practice have been described as cutting edge and as enabling legislation. The last time we heard that was on the Resource Management Act, and members know what a mess that turned out to be. People do not know exactly whether scopes will be broad or narrow, or how they will be interpreted. Only through case law, when people turn up before the Medical Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal and other disciplinary tribunals, will we actually get some strong concepts about what scopes of practice are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EThat is one of the major concerns that medical practitioners have. They want out of this legislation. Heather Roy and I worked to try to get medical practitioners out of the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill, but we failed because United Future would not support us. Otherwise, we could possibly have moved ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EThe other concerns in this legislation are the powers of the Minister, and there not being elected representatives on registering bodies. That is of major concern to bodies like that of the doctors, who previously have been able to elect representatives. It is about professional competence and professions actually feeling they have some control of their profession; they are very unhappy that that is occurring under this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EOne part of the original legislation will now become a separate Act when it is passed\u2014that is, the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill, one of the three bills that this major piece of legislation has now become. We agreed with that. That was a good part of this legislation. We worked hard on it in the select committee to make changes. We agreed with this part because it is based on the Cull report, and develops a one-stop shop, gets rid of the complaints assessment committees, and ensures that all complaints about health professionals go to the Health and Disability Commissioner\u2019s office. That is a very good advancement. We know from the Parry inquiry that it was the complaints assessment committee and the process of getting through it that caused most of the problems. I will never forget Colleen Poutsma\u2019s husband saying: \u201CIf you are not very determined and very articulate, you cannot get through this process.\u201D That was not good enough, and we do have to help people through the process. We welcome this change, and we are pleased to see it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EThe other changes that have occurred are now in the Medicines Amendment Bill. At the moment the pharmacists are absolutely reeling because stat dispensing has come in, and Pharmac has gone back to 3-monthly dispensing. This has seen a 30 percent reduction in the income of pharmacists. We are seeing rural pharmacy closures already. We are seeing interns having to do a fifth year to get placement to be fully registered. Half of them cannot get places now because the pharmacists cannot afford to have them. We see rest homes that had their medicines dispensed in blister packs now facing the costs of paying for stat dispensing\u2014a significant increase when rest homes and continuing care units have had no increase in funding from this Government, and have had massive increases in costs. In this situation pharmacists will be partly deregulated. They can own up to five pharmacies and up to a 51 percent shareholding. The Minister has an exemption clause that allows her to allow other ownership if it will improve health services within an area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EAnother area that the doctors were particularly concerned about was quality assurance. Over the last 8 years, probably, since the Medical Practitioners Act came in, quality assurance has improved markedly in hospitals around the country. Complaints procedures, and doctors, nurses, and other health professionals getting together to engage in quality assurance activities, have seen a marked improvement from the 1980s, when I first began practising as a doctor. Thirteen percent of people who are admitted to hospital suffer iatrogenic harm, which means harm that comes from the treatment they receive\u2014either from medicines, from getting a hospital-acquired infection, or from the treatment they have somehow harming them. It is absolutely essential that when one has a near-miss, or something goes wrong, or some unexpected event occurs in a practice, the practitioner can actually sit down with people and look in a protected way at what went wrong, so that he or she can improve those services, so that he or she can say: \u201CThis was the problem. Let\u2019s do something about it. Let\u2019s make it better. Let\u2019s improve the systems.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EIf quality assurance is not protected\u2014and we did make some changes in the select committee, but many feel we did not go far enough to protect quality assurance activities\u2014then people will not voluntarily offer up information about what has happened or what has gone wrong. One case at Waitemata hospital\u2014the Lachlan Jones and Malcolm Beggs case\u2014was used as the reason that we now have to open up quality assurance. There are lots of different avenues for people to take a complaint\u2014through the hospital complaints system and through the Health and Disability Commissioner\u2019s complaints system. If a practitioner on the front line cannot look at his or her practice and do case reviews, then that will be very significant. I do not wish to see a reduction in quality assurance activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003ENational has not supported this legislation, not because the concepts were not right, and not because we do not want all health practitioners in this country to practise safely, but because the legislation was not consulted on properly, and because there are things in this legislation that the practitioners, especially the doctors, are very unhappy with, and they should know because they are practising on the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u002256fd24f9479f40178a83fb77c1366ec7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256fd24f9479f40178a83fb77c1366ec7\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E This legislation has had a long and varied journey\u2014that is, a petition in 1999, a member\u2019s bill in 2001, and the Cull report, all of which have set the stage for what we support in the House today. This has been an adventurous legislative project. To create legislation that would provide an effective regulatory regime to protect the public from harm and that would endure well into the future is no mean feat. One of the strengths of what we now have is that it establishes a framework for practitioners who are currently not covered by law to meet a raft of regulatory standards and to gain professional credibility. Among those now waiting in the wings to be included are psychotherapists, acupuncturists, and a number of natural health-care practitioners.\t\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EOne of the most welcome aspects of this legislation is the new one-stop complaints structure. The old system involved multiple agencies undertaking separate investigations into the same incident, with huge time delays, difficult access for patients to the complaints process, no centralised database to detect repeat poor practice, and no powers to suspend practitioners when the public is at risk. This legislation addresses all those concerns and is consistent with the recommendations of the Cull report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe power-base of this legislation has been of concern to some submitters. There was, of course, a difference in those concerns, depending on whether the submitter was a professional or a consumer. What we have ended up with is a series of provisions that empowers professional authorities, and a balancing set of provisions that involves consumers and central government. After passing this legislative framework the Minister will, after appropriate consultation and through Order in Council, allow new professions to be added to the list of those covered by the legislation, and will determine which activities should be restricted to certain practitioners. Professions will be able to appoint the members for each registration body, but there is provision for elected members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThat option is important, as different professions requested different outcomes from that provision. Some did not want to have elections, and others did. The either/or nature of this aspect of the legislation is a good compromise. The Minister can instigate an audit of an authority\u2019s policies and procedures if it is concerned about its processes, and the Minister can give directions to resolve disputes between professions regarding overlapping scopes of practice. It is hoped, however, that where overlapping scopes of practice exist, the professions involved will work maturely through any issues themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ECentral controls on registration authorities are that each authority must have two lay members, and that each authority must be separate from the association that represents a particular profession. It is interesting to note at this stage that while the doctors association had concerns about the legislation, the doctors\u2019 regulatory body, the Medical Council, did not, and has supported it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe powers and responsibilities of registration authorities include setting the scopes of practice that everybody is so worried about; the power to set those is with the regulatory bodies and the professions themselves. Determining competencies and qualifications is their responsibility, as is certifying individual practitioners and setting standards of clinical competence, cultural competence, and ethical conduct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThere has even been some mocking of the inclusion of cultural competence, as if this is some sort of new imposition on health practitioners. Hospitals have respected cultural considerations for years, and no health professional wants to alienate patients through unintentional insensitive practice that leaves them feeling vulnerable, or, worse, violated. Of course, the registration authorities also ensure that professionals maintain their competence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future is pleased to support the third reading of this legislation, and is pleased that there is a review clause ensuring that any tidying up that may be needed will be given due consideration. At the end of the day the best gauge we have as to the appropriateness of this legislation is feedback from some of those who are most affected by its implementation. During the Committee stage of this legislation I referred to recent communications received from many of the health professionals who immediately come under this legislation: the Dental Council, the Nursing Council, the Occupational Therapy Board, the Dietitians Board, the Psychologists Board, the Opticians Board, the Medical Radiation Technologists Board, the Medical Laboratory Technologists Board, etc. They have all supported the intention of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future is also pleased to hear of the hard work that is already well under way by professionals immediately affected by this legislation, and looks forward to seeing the ongoing development of health practices not yet covered by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022210c14ede6f04f6ca20915780eefe069\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022210c14ede6f04f6ca20915780eefe069\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E As a first-time member of Parliament I have often been amazed at the scope of some of the legislation that has passed through this House. The range of legislation illustrates how regulated and legislated we are as a country. It also illustrates that perhaps there are too many people in here who have completely lost touch with the real world where most people live\u2014people who just want to have a happy life and to get ahead, people who are contributing to our presence in this House through their taxes, and people who, I suggest, are getting more and more frustrated at the red tape and bureaucracy that they have to endure in order to run their businesses. In fact, I know people with good business ideas who run a mile from that once they realise the course they have to run. But I digress somewhat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe record will show that New Zealand First opposed the legislation. But I also want the record to show the reasons for that opposition, and to reassure the public of New Zealand that we in New Zealand First are not against legislation that ensures the protection of health consumers and the regulation of health practitioners, as some people in this House would have others believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned during the early part of the debate, the intention of this legislation is good. In fact, any legislation that has the intent of assuring patient safety has to be good. However, there has been a great departure from what was originally introduced. It looks good on paper to have legislation that brings all health practitioners under one umbrella, with the safety of patients as its overriding goal. But I do not think enough consideration has been given as to how it will work in practice. Too much of it is theoretical and untested, and I am not the only one who has serious misgivings about it. We can witness the distancing of medical practitioners from it. They want out, and for good reason, and I ask why? Perhaps herein lie some of the answers. They will have to work it all out on a daily basis, and dare I say it, define and apply the often referred-to principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, which are conspicuous by their absence from this legislation, yet are included in a number of other pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThey are the ones who will have to comply with bureaucratic demands. They will have to figure out how scopes of practice and registration authorities will work in reality, while there remains the possibility of political interference. They will have to deal with the issue of cultural competence, conspicuous by the fact that no definition is given in the bill. They want out, because they can see clearly that the bill does not do what it was originally presented to this House as doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe passing of the legislation is a signal to them that the Medical Practitioners Act, widely held to be workable and robust legislation, is no longer good enough. They say that it is, and we know that it is. If it ain\u2019t broke, why fix it? More appropriately, if it needs only a spark plug, why replace the engine? Without the support of the medical profession, I suggest there will be difficulty ahead. I further suggest that we should heed the profession\u2019s call before it is too late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EOf course, the irony of all that is that the legislation was to be modelled on the Medical Practitioners Act, so that health-care professionals would be covered by more effective legislation. Medical doctors\u2019 concerns about this legislation say it all. This legislation has completely lost any common ground it may have once had with the Medical Practitioners Act. Instead, it has become a tangled web of bureaucracy, with unprecedented powers afforded to the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ETo say that some people within the health profession hold concerns with regard to those increased powers would be an understatement. The possibility for considerable political interference into matters of a professional nature provides the potential to undermine the very intent of this legislation\u2014that is, the safety and quality of health services to patients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ELast night the Associate Minister, in response to the many criticisms already expressed from those within and outside the health profession, alluded to the fact that scopes of practice were not something new, as they already exist. I tell the Minister that what is new about them is that this legislation now makes them a legislative concept. The lack of any wide discussion or consultation is the cause of much of the criticism. As the chairperson of the New Zealand Medical Association mentioned, with the numerous alterations made during the passage of the legislation it is clear that the focus will be on narrow, codified descriptions of each individual\u2019s practice. Already it is not hard to imagine that narrow, restrictive, and bureaucratic individual codes of practice will influence employment contracts with district health boards. It is quite telling that doctors were originally amenable to the concept of the legislation. I cannot say that that is now the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI urge that we reconsider the position in which we now find ourselves and take heed of the voices of experience and reason that are coming at us from all directions. As the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists recently mentioned, the passing of the legislation would be the first time for a very long time, if ever, that legislation covering the registration and competence standards of the medical profession has been passed against the advice and despite the express opposition of the medical profession itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe association also expressed its concern at the increased degree of political and bureaucratic control as an interference in the registration and standards of medical practitioners at the expense of professionalism. As a member of the Health Committee, I was approached by many health-care providers and consumer groups that were deeply concerned about the implications of this legislation. I also heard and read submissions from many groups and individuals who will be affected by this legislation. I would be failing in my duty if I did not say in this forum that a lot of apprehension is out there. People are concerned about the implications of the legislation, together with compliance costs, and how scopes of practice will work. If this legislation is about the protection and safety of the general public, then they are quite right to say that it should then be robust enough to earn the support of those experts in the field. They also note the irony in that much of the controversy surrounding the legislation could have been avoided, had there been acceptance of some of the practical amendments offered, consistent with the intent of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI also note that a number of health practitioners are yet to be included in the legislation, not least acupuncturists, from whom a large number of New Zealanders are able to have their health concerns addressed. I further note that the ministerial advisory committee on complementary and alternative health mentioned that there are in excess of 60 different alternative health services, all of which will need registration if they are to be covered by the legislation. The bureaucratic obstacles afforded by this legislation will not provide any encouragement for those professions to want to be covered, and could lead to possible undercover operations. However, during the debate on the legislation New Zealand First expressed its opposition to much of it. We also supported certain parts of it; one particular part has given rise to the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill. In keeping with that support, New Zealand First will be supporting that particular bill. Essentially, it deals with complaints about health-care providers and disability service providers, and ensures that each complaint is appropriately dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EFinally, I reiterate that both patients and providers must be confident in the processes in place to protect them. The Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill does little, if anything, to inspire that confidence. Quite the contrary, I maintain that health-care consumers should be at the centre of a bill that purports to protect them, yet nowhere are patient outcomes shown as a major focus. Accordingly, New Zealand First will oppose the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill and the Medicines Amendment Bill, and will support the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c31fe675414140ed8b90e1845c79a377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c31fe675414140ed8b90e1845c79a377\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the third reading of what was the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill. That bill has now been divided into three bills: the remaining Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill, the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill, and the Medicines Amendment Bill. Like my colleague in New Zealand First, ACT New Zealand will be supporting the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill but will oppose the other two bills. Our concerns certainly have not changed as the legislation has progressed, from the bill that was initially brought to the House to the three bills that it now is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI have to say that this is a very sad day for New Zealand. It is a very sad day for health professionals, whom the Government insists on calling \u201Chealth practitioners\u201D, because, in fact, they are very professional and I think they deserve to be called \u201Chealth professionals\u201D. It is a very sad day for the health professionals of this country for several reasons. The first is that the Government has not listened to them. Many of the groups that came to the Health Committee\u2014and we had slightly more than 250 submissions, I think\u2014had very similar concerns about scopes of practice, quality assurance provisions, the great amount of ministerial control that this legislation will allow, and about elected members of authorities. The Government was unwilling to listen to those concerns and make the significant changes that would have made it much more palatable for medical professionals in particular\u2014but some others, too\u2014to accept the provisions within this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWhen the Ministry of Health issued its discussion paper in 2000 the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill was welcomed, because the underlying principle behind the bill\u2014of using the most modern health occupational legislation, the Medical Practitioners Act, as the basis of developing new umbrella legislation\u2014was a very good idea, and most of the professional groups agreed with that. However, as time progressed things changed significantly, and the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill that was finally presented to the House at the Committee stage was so far removed from the Medical Practitioners Act that in parts it was barely recognisable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt is a sad day also because medical practitioners are very unhappy with this legislation\u2014so much so that they asked to be removed from it. They have made their concerns very well known, and I put forward a Supplementary Order Paper to have them removed from it. The National Party and New Zealand First both supported my Supplementary Order Paper, because they could see the damage that will be caused as a result of medical practitioners having to abandon modern, up-to-date, and very well-working legislation, and change to the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill. It really is a retrograde step both for themselves in their practices, and, most important, for patients when it comes to safety concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt is also a very sad day for the Pharmaceutical Society. The Pharmaceutical Society is an organisation that has existed for over 100 years. It has built up a great number of assets and operated very professionally over those 100 years, and there has been a great deal of emotional attachment to the society as time has evolved. Certainly, pharmacists are very sad to see that go. As time has gone on and it has become apparent that they will have to disband their society, they have been making provision for that. But there will certainly be a great deal of sadness because of the emotional attachment they have felt to it, and that is not necessarily a bad thing when we are talking about medicine and the care of patients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe legislation has been described by Ian Powell of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists as an ambitious dog\u2019s breakfast, and I think that sums it up quite well. It is certainly ambitious legislation. It will see the repeal of 11 Acts relating to different professions, so that there will be one huge omnibus piece of legislation. It is hugely thick and hard to lift, and it will not cover everybody\u2019s concerns, as huge umbrella pieces of legislation seldom can. Some groups were very pleased to see the introduction of the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill. Physiotherapists and occupational therapists, for example, have been working under 1949 legislation. Practice has certainly moved on in that time. The legislation relating to dietitians has been in existence since 1950. For those professional groups, it is time to move on and have up-to-date legislation. Although the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill is not perfect, it will serve them better than the legislation they have at the moment. I myself feel that they would have been better to hold out for amendments to their own Acts, but it is a move forward for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EOne of my great concerns, which I mentioned several times during the other reading debates and the Committee stage, was the lack of a definition of \u201Ccompetence\u201D in the legislation. Here we have legislation that is all about competence and patient safety, yet competence cannot be defined. We were told at the select committee that it was too hard to define. If something is too hard to define, how can it be in the title of the bill? How can it be a yardstick by which people must be judged? I say that it is near on impossible, and for that reason I feel very sad that we are progressing with something that does not even have a definition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe concerns I mentioned that most of the professional bodies had were very similar. Firstly, I want to talk about scopes of practice. Scopes of practice remain unresolved in the minds of the professional bodies. In particular, there is concern about the intention of broad scopes of practice, and there was much discussion about that. The professions were told that scopes would be broad, but in practice they have been watered down by other wording that, in effect, implies narrow or personal scopes of practice. For some professions, that will not be too much of a problem. Occupational therapists have already worked out their scopes of practice. In fact, they have decided to have just one scope of practice, so for them things will not change. For groups like medical practitioners, who have lots of vocational branches that they work through by educational means, the scopes of practice will be extremely difficult to determine and they will be extremely difficult to bring into practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAnother area of difficulty with scopes of practice is when there are overlapping scopes and several professions might perhaps perform one function. I think in particular of acupuncture. There are acupuncturists who want to be part of the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill. I am told that there are physiotherapists in outpatient clinics for whom 70 percent of the time acupuncture is involved in the practice. Also, many general practitioners these days perform acupuncture. So scopes of practice will be a nightmare to determine for areas such as those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI move on to quality assurance activities. In particular, we are concerned about protected activities. The medical profession in particular, and also increasingly other professions, have operated very good quality assurance activities, which have enabled the groups to learn from the mistakes that have been made. They have been able to do so in a protected environment, and they are very worried now that this will not happen. If they cannot be offered protection, those very valuable discussions will not continue, because people will be fearful of the result of those discussions. That affects not only the professions themselves but also, in a very large way\u2014and I do not think that the Government has looked at this properly\u2014patients, whose safety will be compromised. The ministerial control in this legislation is very great, and many of the professions are quite rightly worried about that. I will not go deeply into the issue, because we discussed it at length during the Committee stage. However, it is a justifiable worry for the professions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EElected members of authorities are also going. The Minister has made it very clear that she is not in favour of those, even though the provision is in the legislation that they could possibly exist. She has said on several occasions that she in not in favour of them, so the doctors, the pharmacists, and the dentists who elect members for their bodies at the moment will no longer have the ability to do that. This sad day, I think, needs to be noted. Today we need to say goodbye to professional self-regulation. What other professions do not have professional self-regulation? There are many. [Interruption] Mr Cunliffe may well clap, but he should wait until he next goes to see his doctor. The fact that professional self-regulation is going is a very sad thing. Elected members of authorities are going, and that, too, is a retrograde step. It is the professions themselves that know which of their members are best to govern them. It is not as though they have a majority holding on each of these things; it is just that these people are there to represent them. Today we are also saying goodbye to some of the improvements that came in under the Medical Practitioners Act\u2014most particularly, the improvements relating to patient safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u00224f19b6e5e85f40f6914276d5149941f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f19b6e5e85f40f6914276d5149941f6\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting this legislation, but it does so with some very serious misgivings. The best amendment made to the legislation was the requirement to review the Act in 3 years\u2019 time\u2014a proposal, I might add, put up by the Green Party. As will many others, we will be waiting very eagerly for that review. I am sure that some very important issues needing to be reviewed will be raised when that time comes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003ECertainly, we agree about the need for a consistent, transparent framework for the registration of health professionals, and for robust, consumer-friendly, and streamlined disciplinary procedures that apply to all health professions. We acknowledge that consumers\u2014or many of them\u2014are disillusioned with the health system, in particular the complaints system, and that perhaps hundreds of men and women have been frustrated and humiliated, and have suffered anguish and distress as they sought to pursue complaints through the health system. Many have suffered intolerable delays in trying to get their complaints through the system. It is extraordinary that in the past up to 14 different agencies have been separately able to investigate the same medical event. So there is an urgent need to streamline the complaints system, and we hope that the creation of a one-stop shop, recommended by Helen Cull, and certain specific things, such as the 3-week time frames, will help to streamline the investigation of complaints in the health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe also acknowledge that in the past some practitioners have been unfairly taken through the complaints system, and that there is a need to protect health professionals from vexatious complaints, which can be traumatic, time consuming, and cause them huge stress and financial loss, even if they are eventually cleared of the charges. We believe that the ability of the Health and Disability Commissioner to dismiss vexatious complaints will help to protect practitioners from having to go through unnecessary trauma and stress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThere are some very positive aspects to this legislation, but other aspects of it cause us serious concern. Our particular concern is the degree of control this legislation gives any Minister of Health in this or any future Government over all the health professions in New Zealand. It gives the Minister the right personally to appoint up to 14 members of every governing authority established under the legislation, and that power will give the Minister considerable control over the members of all the governing bodies in the land. Every member of an authority who is appointed by the Minister will be, in a very real sense, beholden to that Minister for his or her reappointment, and that will act as a strong incentive not to rock the boat, to toe the line, and so forth\u2014just as it does with all the appointed members of district health boards. We have noted how the personally appointed chairs of district health boards around New Zealand have sought to keep controversial or difficult issues out of the media, and to try to control the members of those boards. That is a very real concern, as is the fact that the Minister has the power to resolve any contentious or unresolved issues to do with scopes of practice. The Minister also has the power to decide what will be, and what will not be, a controlled activity. All those things will have very significant and far-reaching effects. The Minister\u2014and the Minister alone\u2014will make those decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe were very surprised that United Future did not support our amendment to establish the democratic right to allow up to 50 percent of members of a health profession to elect members of their authority. Electing members of the authority would give members of a profession some sense of ownership over that profession. It would also mean that its elected members would not be beholden to the Minister of Health for their appointments, so the amendment would have given the health professions some important independence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI am astonished that United Future did not support that amendment, as all parties in the House, apart from Labour, did. The Green Party managed to get an amendment through the Committee stage that says that the Minister may come up with regulations to allow some practitioners to be democratically elected. We will be watching that very closely, and looking forward to the Minister promulgating those regulations. That is one of many measures we will be scrutinising in the review to make sure it has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003ELike others, we have huge concerns about scopes of practice becoming narrow and restrictive. In acupuncture, for example\u2014as the previous speaker mentioned\u2014how does one decide on scopes of practice where three different professions are practising acupuncture, and how will that issue be resolved without it being to the detriment of acupuncturists who are outside of this bill? That is something else we will be watching extremely carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EOne of our overriding concerns is that this bill leaves virtually all the detail of the system to be decided by regulation after the bill has been adopted. It basically gives no parliamentary scrutiny to all of the serious issues that have been addressed today. We have this parliamentary mechanism called an Order in Council, which I do not think the public fully understands. It may sound nice, but it is a secret mechanism that involves no parliamentary scrutiny. All of these things will be able to be decided by Order in Council without any parliamentary scrutiny, and we have enormous concerns about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe are delighted that pharmacy was not deregulated. There was an attempt to deregulate all pharmacies in New Zealand, but the Green Party used its influence to oppose that, as did all the pharmacies in the land. That provision was contained in the original bill, but has been dropped, and we are enormously pleased about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EFinally, we are extraordinarily concerned that acupuncturists\u2014who have been seeking statutory recognition for 20 years, and who made very strong recommendations on this bill\u2014are not covered in this legislation. If this bill were focused on consumer protection, acupuncturists would have been one of the professions covered. I believe the decision not to include acupuncturists was a purely political decision, just as it was a political decision to include osteopaths. Osteopaths were given an assurance at the last election that they would be included, and we are delighted that they are, but there is no reason not to include acupuncturists. Arguably, acupuncturists have a much stronger case than osteopaths, because acupuncturists who poke unsterilised needles into people can cause huge harm to the public of New Zealand\u2014more harm than most. Acupuncturists are very aware that unregulated persons can set themselves up as acupuncturists and bring the entire profession into disrepute, not to mention the risk of harm to others in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba1ebbf9270454a8397959c90b1e3bd\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: They will get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231903892554145d8b3a29ac70881f476\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The chair of the Health Committee, Steve Chadwick, who has been very supportive in trying to get acupuncturists together, assures me they will get there. I hope she is right, and I can assure members that I will be watching this issue very carefully. I am worried that medical acupuncturists, who are already covered by this bill, will seek to keep out, in a patch-protection way, those acupuncturists who are not covered by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00223586688c889d44d297dd21be4412abbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223586688c889d44d297dd21be4412abbf\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (NZ Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I am proud to be given an opportunity to speak in this third reading debate. It was difficult to sit quietly and listen to the cant and misinformation of the Opposition during the previous two stages. As the Health Committee chair, I was responsible for the select committee stage, and we were always aware of the task ahead and the long-term implications of the bill for over 73,000 health practitioners in New Zealand. It is those practitioners that I would like to thank today. They worked collectively with us on the need for one consolidated piece of legislation that covered 11 health professional groupings. I also wish the 23 other health groupings good luck with the work they will need to undertake, in order to be included in the legislation by Order in Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOur commitment to get this legislation passed completes a policy undertaking in 1999 to review health occupation legislation. This has been an exciting and a long\u2014not rushed\u2014journey, with representative groups communicating together over this issue for the first time in decades. There has been a genuine sense of goodwill in finding common issues of professional practice, and then working on the points of difference under the framework of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI thank the officials from the Ministry of Health for their commitment to this task. I will not name them\u2014the approach has been a collective one, under the leadership of Karen Poutasi and Gillian Durham. They have ironed out the varied challenges of interpretation and misinformation with the registration bodies, the colleges, and the councils. Consultation and the development of this law have not been rushed, as the Opposition has suggested. The ministry met with professional groupings for 3 years after the discussion document was put out, and work will begin in earnest with groups such as acupuncturists once this bill is passed. The ministry will then lead this work and the ongoing discussions, acting as a resource to the professions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI would also like to acknowledge the leadership of the Minister, Annette King. Unlike previous Ministers, she has had an open-door policy for the professions to work through commitments such as pharmacy ownerships, and the establishment of professional councils for dentistry, midwifery, osteopathy, and pharmacy. She has stuck by her word and her commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EPharmacists are not disappointed. They are delighted with this Government. Aspects that do require more work, such as the protection of quality assurance activities, were resolved with the appropriate groups, such as the clinical advisory group of District Health Boards New Zealand. They were the experts we worked on to get those aspects ironed out. It was critical for us all that the sector worked on wording that gave practitioners confidence about the role of clinical audit, review, and protection of significant-event case reviews, as opposed to commissions of inquiry, police investigations, or inquiries under the Mental Health (Compulsory Assessment and Treatment) Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI appreciated the members of the committee who worked with us collectively to make this legislation as robust as we could. The legislation has to be sustained for many years, even though there is a 3-year review provision. I am pleased to see it there, and thank the Greens for that. I want to thank the members of the committee who gave their input, and who do understand how health professionals think, behave, and enact the intent of the law in their relevant spheres of professional practice. This legislation is also about public safety and cultural competence to practise in very diverse clinical settings. Those on the committee familiar with professional aspects brought a balance; others brought a valid consumer counterbalance to a dominant medical view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EMany other health professionals who want to be deemed valid practitioners in an ever-expanding health environment will now work towards inclusion in this legislation. It is a tool that will bring practitioners together through registration competency oversight and the management of professional complaints. That is unprecedented, and it is exciting for the field of clinical practice in New Zealand. That approach will also ensure public safety, and some of the members of the Opposition from the medical profession have forgotten that that was one of the key principles of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI would also like to thank the office of the Health and Disability Commissioner for its work, and Ron Paterson. His was a major contribution towards ensuring that we made the one-stop shop provisions for complaints as robust as possible. That system is now so much more streamlined than the 14 agencies that currently deal with complaints. I want to get to those health practitioners who worked with us and then, in June, announced that they were withdrawing their support for this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EPatients have asked me to explain the difference between a nurse, a midwife, and a doctor. Under this law, there are very few differences, because the relevant registration bodies remain as they were under the previous registration authorities for those professional groupings. The dominant right to self-regulate is something that we have been determined to break down, and it goes into this legislation. We are pleased to see that consumers are included, which will provide a counter-balance to those medical practitioners. As a Government, we were not prepared to compromise that view. On reflection, even though the two groups concerned previously said that the Medical Practitioners Act was an imperfect beast, they have at least remained consistent in their concerns about the extent of the Ministerial powers proposed in this legislation, and their assertions in favour of professional self-regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EIn 1999, we undertook a review of the Medical Practitioners Act, and those concerns were addressed then, as well as part of the review and rejection of the Medical Practitioners (Foreign Qualified Practitioners) Amendment Bill. We then built on the robustness of the Act. What Opposition members fail to understand is that 110 of 167 clauses in the Medical Practitioners Act are carried over into this bill. They should relax\u2014making good legislation takes time, and Professor John Campbell, the president of the Medical Council of New Zealand, says just that in the latest doctors\u2019 magazine. For over 2 years, through each stage, the Medical Council has been involved in the development of the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill and the resulting legislation. I am sure that we will be able to move on with those professionals. The Minister has always had an open door. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWhen this legislation is passed, it will have to sustain future Ministers of Health and administrations, and during the Committee stage we were all acutely aware of that. This legislation was an ambitious task, but I remain very optimistic of its outcome after today, and I am well aware of how leading-edge it is considered to be in terms of the health practice field in New Zealand. I am proud to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022515ad1ebdf4443b0ab4253d24a58f231\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022515ad1ebdf4443b0ab4253d24a58f231\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (NZ Labour\u2014Otaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call and support my colleague Steve Chadwick, who ably chaired the legislation in the Health Committee, assisted by officials from the Ministry of Health. I also recognise the fine leadership in the health portfolio of my friend and colleague the Hon Annette King. She has done a fantastic job on this bill, and I welcome its third reading in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00228a04fc996ec54383a345d4bc4927953e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a04fc996ec54383a345d4bc4927953e\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (NZ National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E What a case of denial the Government has on this legislation. The Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill is hugely important, and has now had two additional bills split off from it\u2014the Medicines Amendment Bill and the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill. I appreciated the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s complimenting me on my work on the Health Committee when he spoke last night. However, he is so much out of touch that he failed to recognise that I was not a member of the committee. That is a reflection of just how much out of touch the Labour Government is, and the Associate Minister of Health is, in terms of managing the resolution of this legislation. His lack of touch and knowledge absolutely reflects the summation of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, when it commented on this legislation by saying, in essence, that: \u201CThe revived HPCA Bill continues to threaten the capacity to ensure standards of care and safety through a major encroachment on professional self-regulation and a major enhancement of political and bureaucratic control in this area.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EOne of the major themes that should have occurred today was that, finally, a Government managed to get agreement from the various health practitioners and parties involved with the evolution of this legislation, so that it would truly support the health services of the New Zealand people well. I absolutely agree with my colleague from ACT Heather Roy that it is a tragedy that the Government has failed in that, and while Stevie\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022757eb0bdac3a4c9e9e1847b4c30423e4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member may not use personal names. I refer to Speaker\u2019s ruling 6/1 (Supplement).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df299e8712b2439e95824366cd5f31b0\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: I had not quite finished my reference, but I take note of your comment. While the honourable member for Rotorua, Ms Chadwick, has mentioned that there is something in the order of 73,000 practitioners in this country, she has failed time and time again to recognise that medical and surgical specialists take on some of the most onerous responsibilities in the field of health. The fact that neither the New Zealand Medical Association nor the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists has supported this legislation is a huge indictment on the fact that the Labour Government has continued not to listen to them. I reject Ms Chadwick\u2019s comments when she started to quote the Medical Council, which indeed has been in contact with the Government over the last 2 years. But the other bodies have lamented that there has not been ready access to the Minister of Health. Time and time again, she has ignored what they have said and brushed them off. I would agree with those headlines; making good legislation does take time. This Government has failed to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is almost a sense of d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu, because there was a possibility of that some 4 weeks ago in the second reading of the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill, when I held up the bill and said that I did so with considerable dismay. That dismay was, first, at the fact that the bill had not achieved the unity that it should have\u2014that opportunity was lost\u2014and second, at the fact that it was of immeasurable size. Much to my further dismay, this legislation is no longer 272 pages long, but is now about 291 pages long\u2014again, an absolute morass of the bureaucratic complexity that this Labour Government seems to feed on wherever it possibly can. That was indeed the case when it brought in the health and disability bill 2 years ago, which heralded the most complex health system New Zealand has ever seen, with its 21 district health boards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EWe should not lose sight of the main purpose of this legislation, which is said to be to protect the health and safety of members of the public by providing for mechanisms to ensure health practitioners are competent and fit to practise their professions. I say again, for the record, that it is vital to remember the summation of the medical specialists: that, in essence, the revised legislation continues to threaten the capacity to ensure standards of care and safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EOn the more positive side, the National Party has indeed supported Part 8 of the original bill, which encompasses the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill. Again, I think all parties recognise that there have been some horrific tragedies over the last 15 to 20 years in New Zealand: firstly, the National Women\u2019s Hospital cervical cancer inquiry, followed by the Gisborne inquiry with regard to Dr Bottrill, and, more recently, the Parry inquiry. The Parry inquiry in itself was a huge tragedy, and it exemplified the fact that there were so many different agencies dealing with health matters and reporting that the situation was totally out of hand. So we all recognised the useful suggestions made by Helen Cull, in terms of the one-stop shop, and the very strong work that Mr Paterson, the Health and Disability Commissioner, did in helping to evolve this very useful Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill. I believe that it will stand the test of time in its usefulness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAgain, as an indictment of the lack of insight of the Minister of Health, I just recall that New Zealand Herald article where Sandra Coney brought up the huge concern about the reflex reaction of the Minister of Health, when she wanted to dob in incompetent health workers. Fortunately, the Minister did listen to that and she did respond, but it seems incredible that we have a Ministry of Health where the deputy director, Dr Gillian Durham, said the legislation would make it a statutory requirement for health workers to report colleagues if they felt they were working below standards. She said a complaint would prompt a competency review of the practitioner. The aim was to tip the balance in the mind of health professionals from their duty to a peer to their duty to the public, to ensure that the safety of the public was their primary consideration. Undoubtedly, a \u201Cblame and shame\u201D environment was being suggested. Fortunately, that has been revised to a certain extent, and that has to be a great relief. But it did take a lot of pressure on the Minister of Health before she was prepared to do even that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI also want to comment again on the lack of consultation recorded by the New Zealand Medical Association. It said: \u201CQuite simply, we have no confidence in the policy development process or the consultation process behind this bill. We believe that the lack of adequate consultation has led to a number of major deficiencies within the legislation.\u201D It went on to say this regarding professional self-regulation: \u201CThe opportunities for greater concern by the Ministry of Health and by politicians are substantially increased, to the extent that it is doubtful that effective self-regulation can continue.\u201D I brought in an amendment to the Committee, suggesting that one of the major purposes should be the recognition of professional self-regulation as the basis of health practice in New Zealand, and the Government rejected that. I believe that that is a sad indictment on the failure of this Government and this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00225ceecaf173f344a6a89d1fbe47294e51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ceecaf173f344a6a89d1fbe47294e51\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (NZ Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to pay tribute to my colleagues Annette King, the Minister of Health, and Steve Chadwick, the chair of the Health Committee for all the work they have done on these bills, and for all the consultation that they have undertaken with the relevant parties to ensure that this legislation is robust and acts in the best interests of the people of New Zealand, who are the consumers in this industry. These bills clearly do that. I support the third reading of these bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00225677d747f5b94ad38f2beb553093cc16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225677d747f5b94ad38f2beb553093cc16\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (NZ National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E This is the sort of legislation that we in the Opposition would like to be able to support, and we will support the later part of the original bill today, which is now in the Health and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill, because that deals with the disability provisions and we are in complete agreement with those provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EHowever, the chair of the Health Committee, Steve Chadwick, is so lacking in leadership that she could not get up here today and thank the members of the select committee in the proper way. She wanted to imply that some of us were not cooperative, which is a lot of rubbish, but we certainly were cooperative. She said she wanted to thank those of the committee who had worked with the Government in a constructive way, yet we worked constructively all the way through the process on this legislation. It was a long process, and if Steve Chadwick does not have the gumption today to thank those people, I will do so. I now thank Pita Paraone, Heather Roy, Dr Lynda Scott, Sue Kedgley, Judy Turner, Nanaia Mahuta, Dianne Yates, Anne Hartley, Dave Hereora, and Steve Chadwick\u2014and I do that because the leadership of that select committee is so lacking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhat did Steve Chadwick do in her speech? She grovelled to the Minister, dear Annette King, and said she was wonderful. We had another speech from young Darren Hughes, and what did he do? He grovelled, too. Then what did Moana Mackey, the very, very nice, young member of the House and the select committee, do? She got up and had a grovel, too. So that was three grovels. That was all that those members had to say, and that is probably about right. They also insulted everyone else who did not agree with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe United Future party is voting for this legislation, and I accept that. It is in bed with the Government, and that is fair enough. However, United Future has said that it has a couple of concerns about the legislation. Every Opposition party shares those concerns, but unlike United Future we are not all rolling over and cuddling up to the Minister. One of the concerns is about the Minister\u2019s powers. Even United Future has concerns about the powers of the Minister, because this Minister is so far from talking about professionalism among health professionals that she is actually all about putting them down. She does not like health professionals to be a stroppy, educated lot; she wants them all to be nice appointed people who owe their position to the Minister, and that is not right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI note that the Greens have expressed their concerns about that, as well. I would like to pay tribute to the speech that Sue Kedgley gave, in which she clearly said that. Those of us who sat through the hearing of the huge number of submissions on this bill, along with all the hearings held during the adjournment, and all the time spent out of the House on this legislation, all felt that we were really, really working well together. Of course, we cannot all agree on everything, but at least on the Opposition side of the House we can be decent about it, and do not insult someone for disagreeing with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Minister does not like the provision in the Medical Practitioners Act that allows medical professionals to elect some of their members. Why is that? It is because they might think they are representing some doctors, or because they might be elected by doctors because they actually know something, and we cannot have that. It is shown in the papers that, despite our many, many attempts, all we could get out of the Minister was that if she feels like it, she may decide at some stage to allow medical practitioners and all the other health professionals to elect one member\u2014or maybe more than that, if they are very, very good and constantly say how good the Government is to them, which just will not happen\u2014out of a total of 14. That is just sheer arrogance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis Minister does not respect health professionals\u2014so much so that she will not even allow them to be called \u201Cprofessionals\u201D; they are now to be called \u201Cpractitioners\u201D. Those people, who give their time and effort in undergoing many years of training in all the different areas of health, are now to be called \u201Cpractitioners\u201D and not \u201Cprofessionals\u201D. The best way to get professionals to act in a professional manner is to treat them as though they are professionals. If we treat people as though they are professionals, the chances are that they may actually be professional. But this Minister cannot risk doing that, because if people are professional they will be independent and robust, and they will certainly sort out that Minister. We can see why the doctors\u2019 magazines state that 48 percent of the doctors surveyed want Dr Lynda Scott to be the Minister of Health, with 8 percent saying that they want the current Minister of Health. That is something\u20148 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230b89b1f52c4c4fac67369459b20c01\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: And 8 percent want Dr Paul Hutchison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb3d77c63184a51a812321090dc9e8d\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, and 8 percent want Dr Paul Hutchison! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bedffc307ba4992bd5196803e75c1d5\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: And others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d677002a2645e9ac46ad6e57212179\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: And others? That must be Heather Roy! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the other areas that we are concerned about is that the Minister is the final arbiter on the scopes of practice. What could that Minister possibly know about scopes of practice? We have a situation where scopes of practice are untried in a country; we are to be the guinea pigs. One of the constituents in my electorate rang in the other day and said she wanted to stop this legislation because it had nothing about patients in it. So I told her to contact Annette King before the end of today. But I do not think that will make a scrap of difference, because I do not think the Minister really cares about it. Nor does the chairperson of the Health Committee; she really does not care about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the other things that the Minister will be able to do is to state what \u201Crestricted activities\u201D are for professional groups. How would she know about that? The professional groups are the right people to decide those things, because they are the people who know their own competencies, know the stresses they work under, and know their conditions of work. They do not need a bureaucrat, and her other little bureaucrats, to tell them how to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELet me go on to an area that has given me a tremendous amount of interest: the cultural competence area. Every time I mention that in the House I get a barrage of abuse from the Government side, and I must say I do quite enjoy it that the Government members show their colours\u2014finally. Every health professional, who will now be called a health practitioner, must be registered and must show not only that he or she is ethically and professionally competent\u2014and we have no problem with that\u2014but also now that he or she is culturally competent. That term is not defined, and when an area like that is not defined it raises serious concern. I can see that provision being used to stop overseas health professionals from coming and working in this country. The midwives association has already said it will be able to use it to stop the terrible midwives coming in from overseas who are not culturally competent. When asked in the select committee which ones they were talking about, they said the Australian midwives. That shows the level of pathetic political correctness that this bill is all about. It is all about sucking up to political correctness\u2014sucking up to the Minister and giving her all the jobs, forgetting the poor old patients and the poor old people who actually do the work, and giving everything to the Prime Minister and her mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002216d58cefc66e44999ce633c2161f2f17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216d58cefc66e44999ce633c2161f2f17\u0022\u003EDAVID BENSON-POPE (NZ Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to rise in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223f42d38a7ee64f9ab05cf4e6844f4feb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour 52; Green Party 8; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 45\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 25; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000354\u0022\u003EHealth and Disability Commissioner Amendment Bill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8ea42c09b414067b78b04f3d88ec464\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Medicines Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour 52; Green Party 8; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 45\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 25; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb30e29eb5234703b72a83c49ea17399\u0022\u003EGambling Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b10025285a684492ba6553ef1bbf6f76\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u00222064bcc3049d437d9d6e62d9c5dcd3b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222064bcc3049d437d9d6e62d9c5dcd3b7\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Gambling Bill be now read a third time. I want to thank the members of the Government Administration Committee and the staff of the Department of Internal Affairs. Gambling is a complex issue. The challenge is to balance the harm against the benefit. I believe that the bill achieves a good balance. This is reflected in its four main objectives, which are to control the growth of gambling, to reduce the harm caused by gambling, to ensure that gambling raises funds for the community, and to ensure that the community has involvement in decisions about access to gambling. The bill seeks a restraints approach to gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper in my name amended the bill to allow the Lotteries Commission to sell its products by way of remote interactive gambling. I would like to thank United Future for supporting the Government on this amendment. Over the course of time, this should mean a little more money for the community. At the same time, I want to assure members that the Lotteries Commission\u2019s products will remain relatively harmless. The TAB has run remote interactive gambling on the Internet since 1998. I am confident that this bill strikes an appropriate balance and will significantly improve the current system. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00222d8c5b5a16974e07a2b764e931c0a00e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d8c5b5a16974e07a2b764e931c0a00e\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (NZ National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E Today is a sad day. It is a sad day for the families of New Zealand. I note that United Future members are here laughing, smiling, and thinking that it is all just too funny. It is not funny. This bill has some very good provisions. I would like to record that I have given the Minister some credit for them, and I am sure he is aware of that. There are some good provisions, but there are also some shocking provisions, and the allowing by the Lotteries Commission of Internet gambling has to be the worst anti-family provision. It is on a par with the \u201Clesbian father\u201D type of provision that this Government has brought in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe United Future member might like to roll his eyeballs, and smile and smirk. However, on the one hand he said: \u201CIt wasn\u2019t us. The Government did it. Labour forced us into it.\u201D, but on the other hand he has also been quoted as saying: \u201CWe\u2019re particularly pleased with the changes allowing the Lotteries Commission to move into Internet-based gaming.\u201D He also said: \u201CIt was brought in by the Government at the request of the Lotteries Commission.\u201D So it is all its fault! That was confirmed in Parliament this afternoon by the Minister of Internal Affairs, George Hawkins\u2014so it is all his fault! United Future members cannot make a decision in favour of it\u2014but they really did. That is quite clear. They knew this provision was coming, but they did not alert the public, or the people who voted for them. They kept quiet and let this happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThat is so sad. It is so sad because not only is this opening up the gates to Internet gambling, but also it is opening the gates to Internet gambling by a State-run agency\u2014that is, the Lotteries Commission. That is so bad. It is as bad as if they said: \u201CLet\u2019s just let the Lotteries Commission now sell and promote cigarettes and alcohol\u2014and, worse than that, we will make it a monopoly situation. In New Zealand only they will be able to do it.\u201D That is exactly what we are doing here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EPlenty of people have said that they would have been quite happy to look at\u2014and, certainly, I would have been happy to look at\u2014Internet gambling on the basis of a Lotto-type thing so that every Saturday people could go on the Internet, rather than have to go down to the shop. A lot of people would have said that that was fair enough. But that is not what we are talking about here. When we had a proper look at this Supplementary Order Paper we realised that it was not that at all, and that it was all about allowing online casinos. Any sort of online gaming will be ripe for the Lotteries Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhen members of the Lotteries Commission last came in front of the Government Administration Committee I asked them what they had in place to deal with problem gambling and what they knew about problem gambling. I am very passionately concerned about problem gambling. I have seen what it has done to so many New Zealanders and, in particular, those in south Auckland, where I live and which I represent. It means that so much more money will now come out of local businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIf we go to the Minister\u2019s electorate of Manurewa, for instance, we see pokie machine after pokie machine. At least the people who play on those machines have to get out of their beds, take themselves out of the door, trot down the road in a form of dress, and play their game and then, presumably, run out of money. But in this case they will be able to go online with credit cards, and they will not even have to get out of bed to gamble. It is a 24-hour activity, and it will take money out of the communities that can least afford to lose it. That is the sad thing. We are not a party that says that people should not be able to go to a casino or play pokie machines, but we do say that we have to have a safety net there for people who are unable to stop themselves when they should stop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI heard a member of United Future say the other day that 1 to 3 percent of people in New Zealand have a gambling problem. I am sure that that is exactly what he said. When I was chairperson of the Casino Control Authority, we were told by all of the experts that anything from 3 to 6 percent of people had a gambling problem. The figures are now coming out that in the Manukau City area it is more like 9 percent. That is a big percentage. If we take generally two or more adults in a house, we are talking about quite a large number of households affected very, very badly by problem gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn problem gambling it does not matter how many ambulances are put at the bottom of the cliff. Would it not be a lot better to stop people actually falling over in the first place? This bill will not help that. It will very much hurt the very people whom we in Parliament should be doing our very utmost to protect. I note that the member for the Progressive Coalition is here, and he is always going on about problem gambling. As I understand it, he will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293710bc948ac4dbea7c156b886d58bc8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf5b6e7e7814c8b8cbf8ca771f8c5e9\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think he will vote for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022593a641abced4480b7b1cdae97f0b2af\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s disappointed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab98e476135f4d66aac4ad1b9b30d367\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: He is disappointed, but he will vote for it. What is the point of that? I am sure all the 10,000 or so people who voted for him will be disappointed; they will want their money back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThese people are saying that some of the things are so good that they just have to go along with it, but sometimes we have to say that some of the provisions are so bad that we have to say: \u201CNo, we\u2019re not going to do a deal.\u201D That is what United Future could do. The Government could not go in with the Greens. Green members have made their position absolutely clear. They have let the people of New Zealand know, and they got very excited over that, particularly all the people in the pub charities industry. They all knew about it, and they would not have a bar of it. The Government had nowhere to go, and United Future was in a position where it could have forced this change, but it did not, and that is a tragedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ECan we just move briefly to the pokie machines outside of casinos. These people have really got their act together. In particular, I would like to say that the Charitable Gaming Association has been very good with putting in place codes of practice and best practices. These people, after a lot of criticism, including, I have to say, from myself before I came into Parliament, have moved themselves to a position where they can be very proud of the work they have done. I am sure they will continue to go on to do even better work\u2014because they are the people who actually get the money back out into the communities, into the sports clubs, and into arts groups out there, letting the little people get some of it back, and good on them for doing so, because someone has to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo, in essence, this bill is a disappointment in a major way. Internet gaming is a bad, bad move, but there are other provisions that we are happy to support, and the Minister is aware of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef24a380011240e49aadc465fe0f2896\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef24a380011240e49aadc465fe0f2896\u0022\u003EMARC ALEXANDER (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to outline some of the general reasons, before I get more specific, as to why we are supporting the bill. First of all, it is a consolidated approach to gaming in New Zealand rather than the mishmash of the old statutes. The bill provides opportunity for community involvement in the extent of gaming in communities, and it limits harm from gaming with the introduction of an integrated problem-gambling strategy paid for by the industry. There are limits on opportunities for under-age gambling by clearly defining the types of venues in which gambling can take place. It will reduce the number of pokie machines around the country by about 3,000. It extends the moratorium on casinos, which is in line with the public mood on the issue. However, it does increase the accountability of the non-casino gaming-machine industry markedly by ensuring clear distinctions between pub operators and donating committees of trusts. It provides for electronic monitoring of all gaming machines, allowing anyone to apply for grants, not just pub-approved groups, increased reporting requirements to the Department of Internal Affairs, and extra enforcement powers of licence conditions for the department\u2019s compliance team. It establishes an independent gaming commission to hear disputes and to hear appeals by the industry against Department of Internal Affairs licensing decisions, and it ensures the future viability of the New Zealand Lotteries Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EUnited Future has been assailed from all sides as lacking common sense, betraying its supporters, and being anti-family because of the role it played in securing the passage through Parliament of the Gambling Bill. I just note the comments of the previous speaker, Judith Collins. She, on the one hand, privately came up to me and said that we had got a good deal and things were improving in the Gambling Bill. She then turned around last night, for example, and apparently at the eleventh hour wanted to appeal to our sensibilities to change our stand. Having not received one phone call from her, all we can conclude is that it is nothing more than a cheap publicity stunt. But that seems to be 99 percent of her warbling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003ESome critics seem to be motivated by a visceral dislike of all forms of gambling, and therefore they seem to think that the Gambling Bill is all about banning the activity. Not so! The bill arose from a longstanding review of the whole industry and was designed to regulate gambling, not ban it. United Future took a pragmatic, common-sense view that we should deal with reality as it is, not what it could be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EInternet gambling, which already occurs in New Zealand, cannot be prevented without cutting New Zealand off electronically from the rest of the world. We decided that at least some of the money that now goes overseas should be retained in New Zealand and used for the benefit of the New Zealand community. In other words, money that currently fills the pockets of overseas providers of Internet gambling will, upon enactment of the bill, be a source of revenue for the gambling levy, and hence be part of a solution to gambling problems and not exacerbate the problems as they currently are. The Greens\u2019 approach to not allow for this\u2014and I gather from Judith Collins that it is also the National approach\u2014would be nothing more than sticking their heads in the sand and believing that the problem does not exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EIncidentally, it should be noted that the Lotteries Commission, not United Future, sought originally to run Internet gambling. I have to apologise for my earlier media release. My words were ill-chosen, and I accept that. What I really wanted to say was that I was happy with the provision for the Internet, simply because we could now redirect some of that money towards problem gambling, rather than allowing all that money to fill the pockets of foreigners who set up those Internet provisions. That is really what I should have said. I was not accurate, and I do apologise for giving the wrong impression in my media release. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EIt may suit the political purposes of the Greens to castigate United Future, but it was United Future that moved to ensure New Zealand\u2019s problem-gambling programmes would benefit from Internet gambling. That is exactly what I am talking about. United Future has been berated for supporting the establishment of a Gaming Commission to oversee the industry, instead of letting the Ministry of Health set, collect, and spend a levy on the industry to fund problem-gambling programmes. We see the commission as independent from political interference, with transparent accounting practices and support from the industry as well as the health-care providers, in order to treat problem gambling. In other words, the Ministry of Health will be properly scrutinised with regard to both the level of the levy and the menu of options best suited to effectively treat problem gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EHere I have to make just a couple of points. United Future sought provisions to ensure that the commission not only was independent, but was seen to be independent, and that there was the insertion of provisions clarifying this in the Supplementary Order Paper that required the Department of Internal Affairs to ensure a clear separation of staff involving gaming and those working for the commission. This is an interesting point that has not been brought out yet, but the commission will be able to engage its own experts, which ensures that it receives independent advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EThe Green plan was to see the levy swallowed up by the health bureaucracy and distributed by anonymous Wellington-based committees with no obligation to help the communities from which the money came. For all we know, the money would go on liberating gay whales. One has only to look at tobacco taxes, which are promoted by the ministry. Only a very small proportion is spent on anti-smoking measures, and it is easy to see the danger of letting the Wellington bureaucracy get its hands on the money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003ERegarding community involvement in the new gaming venues, our position has been that we provide for all sites to be set up after October 2001 to be subject to territorial authority policy approval. It would have been nice to extend it to all previously existing venues, but the fact is that existing operators have legal rights that Parliament should not be willing to legislate retrospectively over the top of, and that goes against basic constitutional convention. If one looks at pokie profit-distribution systems, our position has been against centralisation. Money raised locally should be distributed locally. Thanks to us, the Government is not forced to deal with Greens intent on centralising profits from pokies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EThe fact is, love it or hate it, many aspects of New Zealand society are supported by fund-raising efforts of the private trusts that operate gaming machines. We are talking about clubs and recreational organisations, local sports clubs, emergency services, lung cancer research, arts, culture, and other philanthropic purposes, church-based social services, capital works and building projects for the churches themselves, community urban rejuvenation projects such as park restoration, inner-city beautification, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EI am happy for my colleagues and I to be judged over the term of this Parliament, and we proudly stand on our record for our actions in promoting the Families Commission, for influencing Labour in a more common-sense direction in its social policies, agitating for better tax policies that benefit New Zealand businesses and families, battling against the spread of prostitution and drug-taking in our communities, promoting victims\u2019 rights, and so on, and especially for our contribution to a stable Government, working with Labour in a constructive and professional manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003EFinally, I express my thanks to the Minister, George Hawkins, for the reasonableness and openness with which we negotiated this bill and its finer points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00228d2f709e72674ed898994db451207bbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d2f709e72674ed898994db451207bbd\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (NZ National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a personal explanation under Standing Order 343. I believe that my honour was impugned by the previous speaker. When I spoke to the previous speaker, I certainly did congratulate United Future on some of the changes it had been able to bring forward in this bill, and I have made it perfectly plain to the House that I was very pleased with some of the changes in the bill. I certainly have not ever said that I congratulated them on letting Internet gambling come into this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022 data-id=\u0022882b067a009b4a1fa6442eed7679cb45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022882b067a009b4a1fa6442eed7679cb45\u0022\u003EBRENT CATCHPOLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The aim of the Gambling Bill\u2014formerly the Responsible Gambling Bill\u2014is to reform the law relating to gambling in New Zealand by repealing and replacing the Gaming and Lotteries Act and the Casino Control Act. Although this Government may trumpet other objectives, the reality is that the bill will have serious consequences for sports, cultural, and service organisations. The potential for political patronage is a real concern. Alterations to the distribution process may well be called for, but the proposals, subject to political appointment and pressures, will not meet community needs, and will not reflect the interests of particular communities. There is potential for further behaviour modifications by the politically correct brigade in the Labour Party. As well as jeopardising the flow of grants to community groups, it is likely that the dramatic increases in levies and administrative costs will further reduce the pool of available funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EThe Government issued a 65-page Supplementary Order Paper of amendments to the bill a couple of days before the bill was considered in the Committee stage. Those amendments were not available for public submissions, and, what is more, that Supplementary Order Paper 132 made changes against the recommendations of the select committee that considered the bill and the public submissions. Today the third and final reading of the bill is being rushed through the House so that the public and other affected parties cannot possibly have time to consider the changes and make comments on them. New Zealand First views that practice, which is becoming common with this Government, as appalling and undemocratic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper contains many detailed technical proposals and amendments, and some of the more important amendments are as follows. One is the prohibition on the granting of any further casino licences, in clause 8A. Another is the removal of the clause that prevents the setting up of Internet gambling. That is against the express recommendations of the select committee, and is done with the approval of United Future. It had the opportunity to shut that down, but, no, it approved it. The dangers of Internet gambling are very complex and enormous. Internet gambling takes away the security and the support of the casinos and parlours that run casino machines, but does not protect the individual operating on the Internet. The Internet leaves it wide open; there are no checks and balances, and no way to stop people from operating. Unless some changes are brought in very shortly, we will find Internet gambling running amok. It is an easy way to gamble, to spend money, and to run up huge debts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper allows the New Zealand Racing Board to operate racing and sports betting, conducted under the Racing Act, in a casino. New Zealand First supports any issues that put the racing industry back on an even keel and an even playing field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EThere is a definition of housie, but the legislation does not provide rules or restrictions on practices carried out under housie. Neither the bill nor the Supplementary Order Paper addresses the tremendous number of rorts and schemes to get round the so-called limits on housie fund distributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 adds conditions that must be attached to a casino licence. As one member asked the other night, what on earth do salary arrangements have to do with a casino licence? That is nothing more than the politically correct brigade within the Labour Party influencing the operations of a casino. Salary arrangements have no place in the licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Internal Affairs has a huge influence. He is able to move the presiding member of the board just by supplying a written notice to the person then sending a copy to the board, without any explanations and without any recourse laid out in the bill. Under clause 87, the Minister has discretion to permit more than nine gaming machines at nine machine venues. The Minister has touted that this bill limits the number of gaming machines, and will limit the number of gaming machines in new venues to nine, yet this clause allows the Minister discretion to increase that number. So pressure from corporate societies that are supportive of the Government will result in those societies receiving preferential treatment under this clause. This clause also allows the Minister discretion to increase the number of machines in venues that support the Government. That is political interference. This bill leaves things wide open to abuse and political favouritism. One can only ask about United Future\u2019s accountability under this bill. It has agreed to this clause and will, obviously, ask the Minister to allow societies that are supportive of United Future to increase the number of machines in their operation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003ELocal territorial authorities have the ability to control activities in their areas only up until they issue a licence. Once a licence is issued, they no longer have control over what happens, and if they suddenly discover that gambling is out of control and harming their community, they cannot do anything about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EI would like to mention that New Zealand First believes that the racing industry has not been on a level footing with the gambling industry for a long, long time, and we support any clauses that bring racing back to a level playing field. New Zealand First views the racing industry as a hugely important industry for New Zealand, particularly for New Zealand\u2019s economy and exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the Minister\u2019s willingness to provide members of New Zealand First with a briefing with officials. It was greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, it was at such a late stage that, after careful consideration, we found we still could not support a number of the clauses within the bill. Therefore, we are voting against the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EFinally, I would like to add that those who claim to have that elusive thing called common sense probably do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u002271ee40995b244a9c999957681ab3a9c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271ee40995b244a9c999957681ab3a9c4\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E At the Third International Conference on Gambling in New Zealand being held in Auckland today, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor addressed participants by saying: \u201CProblem gambling is a destructive addiction. There is widespread evidence of the harm that problem gambling is causing society. There has been a dramatic increase in problem gambling, especially pokie machines. The figures paint a bleak figure of problem gambling in New Zealand, and there is a higher concentration of pokies coinciding with areas of high deprivation.\u201D I say to Mr O\u2019Connor: \u201CHow true!\u201D. How can a Labour Minister go in front of an international conference of people who really know, in the deepest possible way, about the downside of the gambling industry, and acknowledge those obvious facts, when just a few hours later in the House his Government, with the help of United Future, is intent on passing a bill that now has clauses in it that assist the promotion of problem gambling rather than minimising it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EAt 4 o\u2019clock this afternoon, that same conference in Auckland passed a resolution stating, in part, that it \u201Cexpresses its alarm at the most recent changes in the Gambling Bill and calls on the Government and all parties represented in Parliament\u201D to reject the late United Future and Labour additions to the bill, and to support initiatives to allow local authority control over gaming venues, community distribution of pokie proceeds, and obliging Government to report annually on its overall income from, and dependency on, gambling proceeds. Although I report that resolution to the House because I think that if anyone\u2019s voice should be heard on this bill, it is the voice of those who work daily with the people whose lives are wrecked by the havoc that problem gambling causes, I have little hope that at this late stage Labour or United Future members will be willing to change their minds, despite the embarrassment that their position has caused them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ELabour has come a very long way from its early discussions with the Alliance and the Green Party in the last Government, when I think all of us saw hope that the bill we are dealing with today would be a truly responsible Gambling Bill. It was even called the Responsible Gambling Bill throughout most of its history; the fact that the Government Administration Committee chose at the last minute to delete the word \u201CResponsible\u201D from the title was indeed a prophetic indication of what was to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI am one of the few MPs now in the House who sat through the entire select committee process on the bill. After months of submissions and consideration, the committee in its wisdom decided to keep the clause that banned Internet and remote interactive gambling, because of the evidence we had heard of its deleterious effect. Then, just days before the bill came back to the House for its Committee stage, a Government Supplementary Order Paper turned up, as a result of a deal cut with United Future, that reversed the select committee\u2019s decision and allowed the Lotteries Commission\u2014that is, the Government\u2014to proceed with one of the most pernicious forms of gambling available in the modern world. As Dave Macpherson, the spokesperson for the community group GamblingWatch, said earlier this week: \u201CInternet gambling is to entertainment what Internet pornography is to sex.\u201D As with pornography, all around the world treatment agencies and Governments are concerned about the high rate of under-age access to gambling opportunities over the Net. Studies have shown that we already have a high rate of problem gambling among children and young people, and I find it simply incredible that United Future and Labour have agreed not only to refuse to regulate against Internet gaming, but also to promote it through what has become a most irresponsible bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOn top of that, the Government and United Future in their wisdom have chosen to reject the decision of the select committee\u2014which, of course, did include a number of Labour MPs at the time, strangely enough\u2014to ban banknote acceptors from gaming machines. That was done after we had heard evidence of the way in which banknote acceptors make it that much easier for addicted gamblers just to keep on going without having to get up from the machine for even the shortest of breaks. Pokie machines are now undeniably the source of most new gambling addictions in this country and are responsible for a rising rate of problems, particularly among women. The select committee felt that anything we could do to slow the deliberately seductive way in which the pokies keep people playing was undeniably a good thing. However, United Future was not on the select committee during the last Parliament, and it decided not to listen to this sound advice. Labour also decided not to listen to it. They thought the idea of slowing addiction rates was not even worth bothering about. So again we are in the disgraceful situation where a bill that was supposed to be about harm minimisation has ended up being, at least in part, about harm maximisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe third part of the Labour - United Future deal has seen the gambling industry itself being given a greater voice, and hence influence, in the process of setting the problem-gambling strategy and levy. Those are the people and organisations actually responsible for the problem in the first place, and to give them a larger say is a dereliction of conscience and of common sense. The gaming industry also has, of course, a massive vested interest in keeping the problem-gambling levy as low as possible, and throughout the select committee process its representatives made many arguments suggesting that the scale of the problem was exaggerated and the costs of dealing with it overrated. On the whole, the sector is also keen to keep problem-gambling strategies focused on treatment rather than on the additional public health goals of health promotion and harm minimisation. Labour and United Future are entering very dangerous territory here. In fact, this last issue is the most substantial and retrogressive of the changes engendered by their amendments to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EFor the last 9 months or so the Green Party has been working with church organisations, community groups, and local government to try to bring about several critical and positive changes to the bill. We have fought a long, hard struggle to try to persuade Labour, firstly, to allow local authorities to have control over all, not just a few, pokie venues and numbers in their districts, and, secondly, to change the pokie profit distribution system to one that is equitable and publicly accountable. On the first of these\u2014local government control\u2014we have done a lot of research and discovered that, in fact, not one territorial local authority will have the ability to control more than 30 percent of the pokies in its district and that 15 councils nationwide will have no say over any of them, because they were licensed before the magical date of October 2001. In George Hawkins\u2019 own backyard, Manukau City, there has been an explosion of gambling, exacerbated by the conscious choice of Pub Charity to site its machines in the areas where the poorest people live. The Mayor of Manukau, Sir Barry Curtis, and his council have fought a valiant battle, along with many other local body representatives, to try to get the Government to change its mind on this, but to no avail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOn the second of the two issues, distribution, the Green Party has been subject to much deliberate misinformation about our policy. As anyone who read our Supplementary Order Paper or listened to anything I have been saying over the last year will know, what we are after is not some centralised bureaucracy, with no local control over where the $200 million in pokie profit goes, but, rather, a carefully balanced system between national and local needs that is aimed at sharing the proceeds fairly between sports and recreation, arts and culture, and broader community purposes. In our model, fully two-thirds of the funding would have been distributed by a range of very local committees. However, all of this was not to be. As I have said before this week, Labour has completely disgraced itself by choosing to go with United Future on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EContrary to the misconceptions that some MPs have deliberately promulgated lately, the Green Party has never stopped being willing to negotiate with Labour on the changes we wanted made. We have always been willing to talk, negotiate, and compromise, right up until the last minute. We have never, to quote what Matt Robson said the other day, \u201Cthrown our toys out of the cot\u201D on this issue. It is just a myth. We did keep trying. Late on Monday this week, when we had nearly given up hope of changing Labour\u2019s mind, we were made aware of the last-minute unanimous resolution of the New Zealand Council of the Labour Party this past weekend to ask its own caucus to reverse the deal with United Future, and to support local government control and publicly accountable distribution systems. I know that there are many people in the Labour caucus who actually do support their own party\u2019s representative body in its feelings on this issue. I am just sorry that they could not persuade their colleagues on Tuesday that it might be more important to honour that part of Labour\u2019s heritage that calls for social and economic justice for all of our people, rather than the part that sold out its members in the 1980s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHistory is starting to repeat itself for the Labour Party, and I hope its MPs do some serious thinking about what has been happening over the last couple of weeks. Whose votes does Labour want in 2005? Are they those of the pokie proprietors and the Pub Charity administrators, or those of the people whose lives have been devastated by problem gambling? Which party would those MPs rather work with for a better future for New Zealand\u2014one that will not support a jot of industrial relations or other progressive legislation, or one that shares the vision of that part of Labour that does want a better future for all its people, not just those who already have money and power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb05fa1d555f42baa034f03e01801485\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb05fa1d555f42baa034f03e01801485\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (ACT NZ):\u003C/span\u003E It has been a long and tortuous route for this bill. It started off a long while ago, with the first reading in about April 2002, and there has been toing and froing between the parties, with deals done here and parties pulling out there, since then. I congratulate the Green Party on the principled stand it has taken on this bill. It realised that there were significant difficulties with regard to the bill, and its members at least had the fortitude to stand up and say that the bill was not right. I do not agree with all the reasons that they have done that, but at least they have had the fortitude to do so\u2014unlike United Future, which stepped into the breach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAs a result of that, we are to have many things that, I think, are retrograde steps for this country. We are to have Internet gambling, interactive gambling\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf90d0a8695d4031abd604cf718e6e1f\u0022\u003EHon George Hawkins\u003C/span\u003E: We already have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d78c47a7c78f44e2bfe664894d43825e\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: We are to have a lot more of it\u2014online casinos. I notice in the bill that there will be no more physical casinos, despite the experience in Rotorua that my honourable colleague Georgina te Heuheu told us about on Tuesday, whereby the casino planned for that city missed out on coming into being by one day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI thought that the United Future member Marc Alexander gave a very anguished and defensive speech. He obviously feels that there are some difficulties with regard to the provisions of the bill in areas that he does not want to support, yet the United Future party is going to continue to support it. I urge the United Future members, when they vote, to consider doing what the Greens have done in their principled stand. It is not too late for the United Future members to say that they do not agree with many of the provisions in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand opposes the bill for many reasons. It is interesting to note that the bill started its life as the \u201CResponsible Gambling Bill\u2019. The dropping of the word \u201Cresponsible\u201D from the title is, I think, an admission that there is little responsibility involved with regard to this bill. I could point to many clauses where that point is relevant, and I will perhaps mention them as I go through my speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper is a disgrace. I refer to Supplementary Order Paper 132 put forward in the name of the Hon George Hawkins, the Minister of Internal Affairs. That Supplementary Order Paper is huge, containing 65 pages of amendments to this bill. We heard from Sue Bradford that the Government Administration Committee spent a long time on the bill, and had many, many hours of discussion about amending bits here and there in the bill to make it better. Then, at the last minute, a Supplementary Order Paper came forward from the Minister with a huge number of amendments. Those amendments had had no scrutiny by members on the Opposition side of the House, who had many valid concerns about them. The Supplementary Order Paper overturned many painstaking decisions that had been made at the select committee level. Worst of all, it had no scrutiny from the public. There was no ability for the public to put forward submissions and to have their say, which is what our process is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI recently spoke at the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association conference in the Cook Islands. I was asked to give a presentation on the New Zealand select committee process. The other delegates there were very impressed with our select committee process\u2014the number of select committees we have, the way we organise the readings of a bill, and the amount of public submission that we have. Supplementary Order Paper 132 makes a farce of the system of democracy that we have in this country, where the public are able to make submissions. That is one of the things that the delegates from around the Commonwealth were very impressed with\u2014the amount of scrutiny we had\u2014but there was no scrutiny of that Supplementary Order Paper. Many of the amendments that we see in this legislation now are there without any scrutiny, at all. They just show that the Government decided to say that it knows what is best for this country, and to tell people how to run their lives\u2014particularly, in this case, in relation to gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI come back to the online casinos. I think it is a very important point that interactive Internet gambling will proliferate. It will make the problems with gambling much worse. Once upon a time people had to get dressed and go down the road to find pokie machines, or go to the local casino. Now the temptation to gamble is there all the time in their homes, if they want it to be. I suspect that the 3 percent, 6 percent, or 9 percent\u2014the escalating number that we heard about from Judith Collins\u2014of problem gamblers that we see in this country is set to escalate even further, because of Internet gambling. Who do we have to thank for that? We can thank the Labour Government, supported by the United Future party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI would like to come to the new structure proposed in the bill, with the Gambling Commission. The commission\u2019s structure sits at the head of the other structures. It is responsible for appeals and limited licensing. The Gambling Commission, it should be noted, will have no teeth, and will not be independent. If we need anything, it is to have a transparent process and an independent body heading up the gambling process. Underneath the Gambling Commission will sit the Department of Internal Affairs. Whereas once upon a time there was a vertical structure, so that an organisation reported to those above it, now the Department of Internal Affairs will have a horizontal structure. We will have policy for all gaming evolved there, and enforcement will also be the role of the Department of Internal Affairs. The licensing and regulation of gaming machines, servicing of the Gaming Commission, and servicing of the New Zealand Lottery Grants Board will all be parked there. There is not a lot of transparency here. In particular, the licensing and regulation of gaming machines and the servicing of the Gambling Commission should be part of the Gambling Commission, in order for transparency to exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Future member Brent Catchpole\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224096b83cf6514e9da7e1008d96b0b7a2\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022876529103b5f4df9b384664f4ef33d91\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014New Zealand First. I do beg the member\u2019s pardon; that was a Freudian slip. The New Zealand First member mentioned the huge amount of ministerial control that exists under this legislation. It is indicative of what is happening in a lot of the legislation that we see now. The bill that we debated prior to this one, the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill, also saw an awful lot of ministerial control. What we do not want to see is the power of the Minister to increase the number of gaming machines at some venues. Why is it the sole responsibility of the Minister to decide which venue should be allowed to have more than the allotted nine gaming machines? There is no reason for that, at all. That system is open to abuse, and it allows the Government to pick its favourites\u2014something that we are seeing more and more as this Government\u2019s term progresses. That, too, is another reason that the word \u201Cresponsible\u201D has been dropped from the title of this bill. What responsibility exists when one person has the power to do those things? It is just not right, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EFor many reasons, ACT New Zealand opposes this bill. Most of all, we are worried about the ministerial control, and also about the new structure that does exist. But the potential for the huge proliferation of online casinos, Internet gambling, and interactive gambling, which the United Future Party needs to take a great deal of responsibility for, has been a huge disappointment with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022e45edd34d665452996a153d5a79bcf36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e45edd34d665452996a153d5a79bcf36\u0022\u003EDIANNE YATES (NZ Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I speak as the chair of the Government Administration Committee. Throughout two Parliaments we have had two select committees work on this bill, and I thank those committees for the work they have done. I thank the officials, and in particular John Markland, for the work they have done on the bill, and for being so long-suffering over what have been very controversial issues, on which many people will never agree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EThe bill does some very important things. It limits the number of pokie machines in this country, it gives local government the ability to have gambling plans, it does make trusts more accountable by addressing their structure, and it does address the distribution of profits by making that process more transparent and, can I say, much more fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u00227f2f67edf7644ff89e749b8ed5908966\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f2f67edf7644ff89e749b8ed5908966\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (NZ National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise to the third reading of the Gambling Bill. At the outset I say, as my colleague Judith Collins did, that National opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI commend the ACT speaker, and the Greens\u2019 speaker, Sue Bradford, who spoke before me. I do not normally necessarily agree with the position that the Greens take, but I have to say that their stand\u2014unlike that of United Future\u2014has been completely principled, and in that respect I certainly support them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E I take the opportunity to discuss, for the last time, the issue of Rotorua Casino Ltd. Supplementary Order Paper 109, which I lodged, sought to enable Rotorua Casino Ltd to apply for, and have considered, a casino venue licence. That amendment would have allowed genuine consultation with the Rotorua community on a proposal to build and open a resort casino in Rotorua, and would have provided for an independent assessment of the application, community consultation, and the distribution of the profits by a charitable trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe background is that Rotorua Casino Ltd viewed as a serious injustice the moratorium on further casino applications that was imposed by Parliament in 1997. The moratorium prevented two of the six applications that had been lodged before the passing of that bill from proceeding. Of course, one of those was from Rotorua Casino Ltd. The other was from a company that, at its base, was the Wellington Tenths. It is interesting that both those organisations were M\u0101ori based, but I will say no more on that; given that all people in this country say they want to see M\u0101ori involved in economic development, it is interesting that the two organisations that missed out were M\u0101ori based.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ERotorua Casino Ltd sought to rectify that. At the time that the moratorium was imposed, it was generally understood that the purpose of the imposition was to allow a complete review of gaming laws, and the expectation was that casino applications would then be heard under the new rules. Of course, we know that this bill has completely barred them. That decision might not have been so bad if there had been some logic behind it, but if one looks at the bill, one sees that one of the most pernicious forms of gambling will be allowed to spread right across this country, so there does not seem to be any logic at all to the Government\u2019s approach to gambling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ERotorua Casino Ltd wanted the opportunity, as it had already invested so many resources and funds in 1997, to have an application considered. But it recognised that it would need to meet more stringent and comprehensive conditions had been faced previously by other applicants for casino premises licences, and that is what it did. As embodied by the proposal in the Supplementary Order Paper, Rotorua Casino Ltd had taken a very responsible approach to the issue, and had taken into account a lot of the comments that had been made at the time of the 1997 legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EOne of the side effects of the moratorium has been to create a casino monopoly in New Zealand, and substantial market dominance by one company throughout the country. This bill confirms and makes permanent that private business monopoly, and that surely cuts rights across the business and competition policies that all Governments\u2014particularly National and centre-right Governments\u2014have. I would have thought that this Government, in particular, as it seems to have all the language about business and enterprise\u2014although it does not actually deliver on it\u2014would see the sense in that, as well, but, clearly, it did not. Essentially, sitting behind the Rotorua Casino Ltd application were two fundamental issues. One was the right of communities to decide their own economic development, to make decisions around what activities they see as enhancing economic growth and development in their own regions, and the other was the injustice that had occurred with the moratorium in 1997.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI want to spend a short time on some of the things that the Minister of Internal Affairs said the other night. On the issue of casinos and the fact that no more will be allowed, he shouted out in the Chamber that the public does not like casinos. Well, I ask who the public is, because it seems that the public is the Labour Government\u2014that that is who the public is. I imagine that those people who do not like casinos are not too crash hot in favour of any form of gambling, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThat was such a stupid thing for him to say, when this bill will see the spread of interactive gambling in any event. It will be worse. This legislation makes provision for a form of gambling that will be much worse than anything that the Minister talked about the other night. That is why I say there is no logic to this bill, and that is a great pity. After a 4-year gap, this House should have seen a decent piece of legislation that was comprehensive and consistent, but this bill is not. It is not consistent at all. Government members make great noise about the fact that they are limiting the number of pokie machines and preventing further casinos, but, on the other hand, the State will now sponsor Internet and remote interactive gambling. I ask what the sense in that is. [Interruption] I want Dianne Yates, a member from Hamilton, to stand up and tell me the logic behind that, because there is none. This way, people do not have to get up and go out of their sitting rooms; they can sit there and gamble. How come that is OK and casinos are not? Members should tell me that. They should tell me how come that is OK. Well, it is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe Government should be ashamed of itself, especially a Government that says it is family-based and all those things. However, that is just a lot of rubbish. I deplore this legislation and the way that this Government has behaved on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022 data-id=\u002278de873c63c947cab8b77345c898cfb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278de873c63c947cab8b77345c898cfb0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E This is a good bill and I support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u002243e596a6ce2b4adba62079ea942ae88b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243e596a6ce2b4adba62079ea942ae88b\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (NZ Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u00227fad5512769844ada5a122ac92b4173e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fad5512769844ada5a122ac92b4173e\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I missed both those speeches in my effort to stand up; they were so quick. I want to acknowledge from the outset that there are elements in this bill that New Zealand First thinks will improve the current situation. Indeed, we would have supported them at the Committee stage, had the debate been allowed in such a way that we could have voted on individual clauses. But it was a constrained debate on a part-by-part basis and very much rushed through, and overall we had to oppose it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First was not on the select committee, so we had to come to terms with the bill by doing what might be termed \u201Cthe hard yards\u201D. We had to read it in its entirety, we had to study the submissions as best we could, and we had to listen to the debate in this House. We note that the select committee received 521 submissions, the hearing of evidence took 33 hours and 48 minutes, and a further 34 hours and 18 minutes were spent in consideration. We were not there\u2014and it is a very difficult job to keep up with that level of work\u2014but what surprises me is neither was United Future. It was not even in the House in any effective manner in the last term of Parliament, and it did not have anybody on this select committee, at all. I ask the chief whip of United Future: \u201CDid you read the submissions?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd716689226f4ea9af2b6b16692cb5f0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did the \u201Cmember\u201D read the submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229add974be86b4726a44b606c903a4b4b\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Did the member read the submissions? Did anybody in United Future read the submissions? He does not know. I think members can take that as being that nobody in United Future has read the submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ed2f4f6f2d477ea9ddeaae09e9930d\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Would it have made any difference if they had?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c304ab024214416bd752d45c2ff8861\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know, but we have good reason to believe that nobody in United Future read the submissions, and nobody in United Future can address this House now and answer that question in a positive manner. United Future members have come to this Parliament and supported a Supplementary Order Paper that removes clause 217A from the bill as it was reported back from the select committee. Clause 217A banned interactive gambling. United Future has done a deal with the Labour Party to remove that clause. Its members have not listened to anybody, read any submissions, or done anything in the public arena whatsoever, but they know better than anybody else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EA few weeks ago, my Death with Dignity Bill was defeated, and a United Future member\u2014I will not name him, because I get on very well with him personally and respect his view\u2014came over to me said he respected my sincerity, but the Lord had spoken and my bill had been defeated. I ask United Future members whether the Lord spoke when the Prostitution Reform Bill was passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022006d1228feec4354aa2c525e0a0f3bba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There has been one reference to your bill, but now we will come back to the Gambling Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f8455692c2445e8a6d69d88a7e24c3d\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Do they believe that the Lord is speaking to them, so that they do not have to ask the public what they think of interactive gambling? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIn Australia, the National Office for the Information Economy\u2014whatever that is\u2014has compiled a report for the Australians. I want to read some of the assertions made in that report: \u201CThe key social concerns that have emerged in the debate on interactive gambling are as follows: 1. Internet gambling will greatly increase the accessibility of gambling. Research shows a significant relationship between accessibility and the prevalence of problem gambling. 2. The special attributes of interactive gambling, such as its ease of use and the type of products available, may exacerbate the prevalence of problem gambling. 3. Interactive gambling will expose new audiences, such as young people, to gambling, thereby increasing the potential for an overall increase in problem gambling. 4. Early intervention and support to problem gamblers may be more difficult to provide by the Internet than in current gambling venues. 5. Interactive gambling may have a further negative impact on the community through the narrowing of leisure choices and an increased gambling mentality, with wider acceptance of gambling and the potential for increased isolation of individuals.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe report goes on to state in a bullet-point form\u2014which I will read to this House\u2014key points why the Commonwealth of Australia is concerned about interactive gambling: \u201C1. Interactive technology provides an unprecedented level of access to gambling, bringing gambling into the homes of Australian families. 2. Young people may be directly affected by increased accessibility to gambling. 3. Accessibility to gambling is the single largest factor contributing to problem gambling. 4. Australia already has one of the largest gambling industries in the world. 5. As a nation of early adopters of new technology and conducting transactions on-line, Australia is a prime location for a rapid expansion of interactive gambling. 6. New interactive technology could attract new cohorts of gamblers and result in new problem gamblers and forms of problem gambling.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe Australians have seen fit to examine this issue in detail. What are we doing here? We are having little meetings behind the scenes in non \u2013 smoke-filled rooms, with a Government that opposed interactive gambling when the bill was sent back from the select committee. I say that United Future members should be ashamed of themselves. They should be absolutely hanging their heads in shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI know that Larry Baldock\u2014he winks at me across the House\u2014is going to address a church on Sunday. I want him to stand up and tell them\u2014I will come along; the member invites me to come along, and so I will. I think that what United Future is doing in this country is not only shameful, but not even democratic. This is the party that stands for common sense. Its members say that they are the common-sense party. Matt Robson nods his head. Is it common sense to deny the public any representations on this sort of legislation? I know that Mr Robson is concerned about problem gambling in this country, and I say to him that this is not the way to go. We should not do a back-room deal after all the select committee\u2019s deliberations and considerations said no to interactive gambling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022998b4e3b1acf426f9ca7693f1cb6947b\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Is he voting for this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91f49a4f2f340329578ef127dc438ef\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know; we will hear that at the end, though I cannot imagine he will. When Marc Alexander spoke in this House, he said he had not had anybody appeal to him over the phone not to vote for this bill. I have tried to ring him in the House, and could not, but I have spoken to him personally and appealed to him, and to other United Future members, not to vote for this bill\u2014not with the clause in it that provides for interactive gambling. If they vote for it, they will be doing a disservice to young people, and a huge disservice to the families in this country. They will never be able to stand up on a public platform\u2014and certainly not with me alongside them\u2014and say that they are the family party in this country, because they sure ain\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022 data-id=\u00222b8c84efccfa4b79bc53280e27371ba8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b8c84efccfa4b79bc53280e27371ba8\u0022\u003EHon MATT ROBSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E Peter Brown and I share a regard for common sense, but we also share a belief in the wise words of the Italian Marxist philosopher Antonio Gramsci, who said that common sense is often just shared prejudice. I am sure that Peter Brown and I have often talked about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThe Progressive Coalition is supporting the bill, though we do not have as much to celebrate in the battle against problem gambling as we ought to, given our absolute majority on the centre-left. Progressive\u2019s position is perhaps best summarised by Richard Northey, a former member of Parliament and now chair of the Problem Gambling Foundation. He says that the bill before us represents eight steps forward, because it provides a tougher regime to control gambling than the present law of this land. That is why the Progressive Coalition supports the bill. We do not believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThe Greens walked away because they were not getting everything they wanted, and have now vowed to bring the bill down altogether. They would rather that the eight steps forward being made here today were not being made at all, just so that they can have the emotional satisfaction of putting out a press statement accusing Labour of being arrogant. Sue Bradford talked in this House yesterday of the arrogance of Labour\u2014a party that won over 41 percent of the vote last election, which is two times more than any other single party. Yet when the Greens walk out on negotiations with Labour, Labour and the Progressive Coalition have no choice but to find at least one other Opposition party to allow us to enact legislation that, in Richard Northey\u2019s words, allows us to take the eight steps forward that we would not otherwise be able to take. In other words, to take eight steps forward on problem gambling\u2014as we are\u2014we have had to turn to a conservative party, which in this case is United Future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u201CArrogant\u201D means having or showing an exaggerated opinion of one\u2019s own merit or ability, and I know that Mr English would agree with that. Surely, the test of any party\u2019s merit or ability is the success it has in getting its policies enacted, and in representing the people who voted for it. However, I thank the Greens for voting for the Progressive Coalition\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper on cutting and capping the numbers of pokie machines. We in the Progressive Coalition also reject banknote acceptors, which make it easier for problem gamblers to throw their families\u2019 dollar notes into gaming machines, and we thank the Greens for supporting us on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EBut, again, we wonder how United Future will justify its stance on gambling, when it is supposed to be pro-family. I also note that United Future does not support the Progressive Coalition\u2019s pro-family 4 weeks\u2019 minimum annual leave bill; apparently, the only families United Future wishes to strengthen are rich families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EStanding Orders do not permit me to introduce a member\u2019s bill to reform gambling laws this year, but from next year I will put forward a member\u2019s bill on behalf of the Progressive Coalition that really will be pro-family and do more to protect families from problem gambling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002259ca2333d8024ea49e84f694e83ef660\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Gambling Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour 52; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 23; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7;Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6c8cadb6131484a81bc49d5ce1ec13d\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279a3c16d7cb8467fb74ee41e8173d777\u0022\u003EPrivileges of the House and Speaker\u0027s Actions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad6f1128db614769bdd64b791f522a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad6f1128db614769bdd64b791f522a50\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Earlier today members raised a number of points of order relating to my conduct and the conduct of the police. I want to respond to those points before the House adjourns for the week. Members questioned statements that I have made outside the House on two incidents, one involving Shane Ardern, and the other involving a demonstration in the gallery yesterday. Let me deal with the latter first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EI announced publicly yesterday afternoon that trespass notices have been issued against the demonstrators concerned. I considered it was appropriate for me to do this as soon after the incident as possible. I could also have informed the House of my decision, and perhaps on reflection I should have done. However, the issue of trespass notices following incidents in the gallery is not uncommon, and it has not been the practice to take up the time of the House with them. Mr Prebble questioned why disorderly behaviour charges have not been laid, as has occurred with Mr Ardern. As with Mr Ardern, that is entirely a matter for the police. The fact that I have issued trespass notices does not preclude other charges being laid. Just as I did not interfere with the police over Mr Ardern, I have not done so in this case. It is a decision for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EThe statements that I made on Friday in relation to Mr Ardern were made in response to reported public comments by Mr Ardern that he had no regrets and would do it again. On reflection, I feel I should not have responded to them in public, and I apologise to the member concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EThe police indicated to my office that they intended to interview Mr Ardern. I regarded that as a matter solely for them. No question was raised as to the interview occurring in Parliament House, and I was unaware of that having been the case. I understand from Mr Ardern that the police rang his office for an appointment, which was made with his secretary last Tuesday. I do not regard that as satisfactory. Mr Worth drew attention to parliamentary practice in Australia and to the fact that the police exercise their powers in Parliament House under the general control of the presiding officers. Subject to any specific statutory differences, I think that this is broadly the position in New Zealand too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EIn the year 2000 I issued to all members a circular on the serving of legal process on members, emphasising that this should happen in Parliament House only with the agreement of the Speaker and the member concerned. The Clerk is in the process of revising that circular for reissue. I think it should also deal with the question of the exercise of police powers in the building. I want to discuss this matter with the Commissioner of Police, with a view to devising appropriate procedures for police conduct in Parliament House. Those procedures should take account of our security needs, while not infringing Parliament\u2019s privilege of control over its precincts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EFinally, there is one other point that I wish to respond to. That is the allegation that has been made more than once that I have never explained my actions over the Hon Harry Duynhoven to the House. That is not correct. I gave a ruling on 23 July describing the course I was intending to follow, and a second detailed ruling on 7 August explaining why I had acted as I did. These rulings are on pages 7211 and 7748 to 7749 of the daily Hansard. Some members may not agree with my actions. That is their right. But it is not true that I have never explained my position on that case to the House. I will make sure that a copy of this ruling is put in every member\u2019s box, eventually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022472b51bdb7ec4cf186ab3e1dbebde87a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022472b51bdb7ec4cf186ab3e1dbebde87a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for those considered rulings. To follow up on the points you made about the process in respect of police activity in Parliament itself, I wonder whether there is some way that you can communicate with the Commissioner of Police with some urgency, because Shane Ardern\u2019s office has been rung by the police four times, I think, today. [Interruption] Was it more than four?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255100f3bfc8e47f2916d2d04d52c2efa\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not aware of the number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220104aa734d664c8e94dd3ee94971a2a5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, at least four times today his office has been rung by the police, pressing for an appointment to enable them to issue a summons to Mr Ardern\u2014in Parliament! This is putting a great deal of pressure on his secretary, who, despite our consistent advice not to agree to that, may well end up doing so on the next phone call. I would suggest that you take up this matter with the police directly, so that they understand that a summons cannot be issued in Parliament to a member of Parliament. If they could stop hassling Shane Ardern\u2019s office for such an appointment, it would be greatly appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u0022539fe35968ab49ebacf34b80836c8cc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022539fe35968ab49ebacf34b80836c8cc2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the member\u2019s point. It is properly raised, and yes that will be done. I will discuss this matter with the Clerk, and he can explain the proper procedures to the police. But I can assure the member that that will be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20030911b1fc6dd82b47459e8428b67f3bfddc1b000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.48 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"