"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d7b8ea1240e4ec3a72e06f03c124584\u0022\u003EThursday, 27 May 2004\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204ae6250532e4f0c866179738ac6d483\u0022\u003EThursday, 27 May 2004\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223dfc0ec10803492eb3dafd6c32a0db0a\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2003/04 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8b8df2616eb4b7a8f01402d0b62990d\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00228e874769f0a340c49fa4c14cc065af52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e874769f0a340c49fa4c14cc065af52\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I hereby present the Supplementary Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the year ending 30 June 2004. I move, That this paper be published.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022118c3f46de724941a00cdbf6f8364186\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2004/05 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226abaeaa7f86b4d53b56cd3a258d01115\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002245f9910c4ec04e26ac2bbbe8882ee722\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245f9910c4ec04e26ac2bbbe8882ee722\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2004/05 Estimates) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbe7c9e72e8748e4b3da642299f6b6bf\u0022\u003EBudget Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022382bdc1f7605403bb1d763a632257a44\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c5b668c307a405ca11b19ccfbbf7e60\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2004/05 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6a9da23a5ac41f493bfa5014341e5aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6a9da23a5ac41f493bfa5014341e5aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the  be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBudget 2004 is the fifth budget I have had the honour of presenting to Parliament for its consideration. This continuity of fiscal management has allowed a consistency of approach which today\u2019s budget reinforces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThroughout those five budgets there have been six themes: predictable, stable, and prudent management building fiscal strength for the long term; expanding the role of government in supporting economic development; rebuilding capacity in the core state sector; strengthening social provision, in particular in health, education, and housing; maintaining the revenue base while progressively simplifying the tax system; and providing greater security and opportunity, especially for low to middle income New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAll five budgets have been prepared against a background of international economic uncertainty. From the tail end of the Asian financial crisis the story has been one of uncertainty driven by international terrorism, war, actual or feared disease outbreaks, economic stagnation, and uncertain progress on international trade liberalisation. To describe the government as somehow lucky over the last four and a half years is to take a view of the world which penetrates barely beyond our own shores.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis uncertainty to some extent continues. Events in the Middle East point to continued conflict. Most of the major European countries show only limited signs of economic recovery. Terrorism seems to be spreading rather than being contained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAgainst this, the United States economy is growing strongly, the Japanese economy is looking more vigorous than at any time for well over a decade, the Australian economy continues to move at a reasonable pace, and China\u2019s growth remains very high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOver the next year, assuming no serious worsening of the international situation, this growth in our major economic partners should assist to begin rebalancing the New Zealand economy. Over the last year, economic growth has been substantially higher than forecast in Budget 2003, largely driven by the domestic sector. The strong New Zealand dollar \u2013 the mirror image of the effect of the large American double deficits on the greenback \u2013 has placed pressure on the exporting sector, to the considerable concern of the government and exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis pressure has now partially abated. With strengthening external markets, strong commodity prices, sound fiscal management at home, more flexible monetary policy, and some weakening in domestic pressures, growth will, after continuing to moderate over the next year or so, then begin to pick up in a more balanced fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBudget 2004 forecasts growth for the year to March 2005 of 2.8 per cent, falling slightly further to 2.5 per cent for the year ended March 2006. Growth will then pick up to 3.4 per cent for the following year. From that point on, the forecasts return to Treasury\u2019s current assumption of medium term growth of 3 per cent. By the end of the period the current account deficit is forecast to improve, having peaked at just over 6 per cent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note that the forward fiscal forecasts for Budget 2004 are similar to those in last year\u2019s budget, though the outturn has been substantially better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThat has been a feature of this government\u2019s fiscal and economic management. We have consistently outperformed our own forecasts. Over the last three years we have also outperformed most of the rest of the developed world. In 2003 New Zealand\u2019s economy grew by 3.5 per cent compared with the average of 2.2 per cent for the OECD as a whole. This success by New Zealand businesses, New Zealand workers, and the New Zealand government needs to be celebrated, especially given the tendency in some quarters to be in a permanent Cassandra-like mode, predicting gloom and doom amidst the evidence of success. This has been a conflict between practice and outdated theory \u2013 and the former is clearly proving a superior guide to performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThere are extreme ideologues who, in order to feel comfortable, need to see policies that make most people miserable. The government has been guided by the belief that economic progress cannot be achieved by the waging of near permanent war on the hopes and aspirations of most New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the government can point to considerable success in its economic programme. This can be measured not just in crude Gross Domestic Product terms but also in those indices that measure the outcomes of economic policy which contribute to wellbeing. New Zealanders rightly believe that success is defined as much by quality of life, a better environment, and more effective health and education services as by narrowly defined economic performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, Budget 2004 continues the six themes I referred to earlier. The significant change this year is that our outstanding success in providing predictable, stable, and prudent fiscal management means that we are able, over the next three years, to commit very substantial additional resources to enhancing security and opportunity, especially through the Working for Families package being announced today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe key fiscal objective we set for ourselves early in our first term was to keep gross sovereign-issued debt below 30 per cent of GDP on average over the economic cycle. When we took office it was in fact 33.7 per cent of GDP. By the end of this fiscal year on 30 June it is expected to have fallen to 24.7 per cent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis overachievement is in part a consequence of growth being consistently better than forecast. Under these circumstances the government has demonstrated the discipline to bank the surpluses for the future. This has been against a strange coalition of forces calling for substantial tax cuts and/or expenditure increases at the expense of future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EGiven this achievement, the government is now in a position to redefine its long term debt objective to express its continued commitment to prudent fiscal management. The new long term objective will be to manage total debt at prudent levels, with gross sovereign-issued debt as a percentage of GDP slowly reducing over the longer term and passing through 20 per cent of GDP before 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOver the next three years, largely as a consequence of the investment in the Working for Families package, the gross sovereign-issued debt to GDP ratio will decline more slowly. At 30 June 2005 it is forecast to be 22.6 per cent of GDP. But thereafter the rate of decline slows so that, at 30 June 2008, it is forecast to reach 21.8 per cent of GDP. In nominal terms, gross sovereign-issued debt will rise by $2.3 billion over the forecast horizon (30 June 2004 to 30 June 2008). This emphasises there is very little room, on the basis of these forecasts, for any further substantial fiscal loosening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ETwo things flow from this. The first is that any such loosening \u2013 whether by way of tax cuts or by way of expenditure increases \u2013 would place significant pressure on monetary policy with the likelihood of higher interest rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe second is that if such increases are to be avoided then substantial reductions in revenue over the forecast horizon would need to be matched by substantial reductions in expenditure. As a number of countries, notably the United States, have demonstrated more than once in the last twenty years, there is no such thing as a free lunch in fiscal policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis relative tightness around fiscal options over the next three years may seem to be at odds with the forecast surpluses. For the current 2003/04 year the operating balance is forecast to be $5.9 billion or 4.3 per cent of GDP. Looking forward, the forecast surpluses for 2004/05 are $5.7 billion, 2005/06 $5.0 billion, 2006/07 $5.1\u00A0billion, and $5.4 billion for 2007/08, an average of 3.4 per cent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThese are, as I said, just sufficient to reduce the gross debt to GDP ratio from 24.7\u00A0per cent as at 30 June 2004 to 21.8 per cent at the end of the forecast period on 30\u00A0June 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis small reduction can be reconciled with the large forecast operating surpluses through a clearer understanding of how these surpluses are calculated and what other elements have to be accommodated before calculating the gross debt outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe primary element that has to be allowed for is capital expenditure which is not financed off departmental balance sheets. This includes two especially large elements which under standard accounting rules are treated as capital expenditure: transfers to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and student loans. On top of these are very substantial capital expenditures in Defence, Health, Corrections, and Education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOther significant elements include equity injections to Crown entities. In years of slower growth in particular, as over the next two years, there is no reason why all of these injections, or advances for student loans, should necessarily be funded out of current operating revenue so that the small rise in nominal gross debt is not of concern to the government. But it would be most unwise to fund the bulk of such expenditure from borrowing, particularly as we approach the beginnings of the demographic transition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, the increases in spending committed to in Budget 2004 are significantly higher than in previous years. New operating spending totals around $2.4 billion in 2004/05, rising to $3.8 billion in 2007/08, with the increase largely reflecting the phasing in of the Working for Families initiatives. As we have achieved significant policy goals in Budget 2004 prudent management at this stage would suggest that new operating spending in next year\u2019s budget should be limited to around $1.8 billion and to $1.6 billion in each of the following two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThese figures represent the forecast headroom at this point for additional new spending. This does not include the great bulk of ongoing expenditure built in to baselines. Total core Crown operating spending for the current year is forecast to be $42.2 billion or 30.6 per cent of GDP. By 2007/08 this will rise to $52.7 billion or 31.6\u00A0per cent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EA key element of capital expenditure are the transfers into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. Next year, 2004/05, the transfers into the Fund will be $2.1\u00A0billion and at 30 June 2005 the Fund is forecast to total some $6.3 billion. By the end of the forecast horizon, 30 June 2008, the Fund is forecast to total $15.5 billion. By that stage I anticipate that the success of the Fund and its key role in securing the future of an adequate level of New Zealand Superannuation will be sufficiently clear that even my political opponents are likely to refer to it by its proper name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe Fund Guardians effectively took over control of the Fund on 30 September last year. They adopted a policy of moving from a cash portfolio to a fully invested portfolio by the end of this financial year. During the first period of investment they easily exceeded their target rate of return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOne of the criticisms of the Fund that has been made is that, at peak, it will only pay for a small proportion of New Zealand Superannuation. In fact, the latest estimates indicate that the relevant figure is 36 per cent. If we applied that figure to the current married couple rate of New Zealand Superannuation, that would equate to $138 per week. It is clear that large numbers of superannuitants would be faced with severe poverty if their current superannuation were lowered by that amount. Thus those who call for the abolition of the Fund need to be clear how the fiscal hole in the long term is to be filled. Certainly any alternative proposal which uses the Fund\u2019s assets to reduce taxes or increase expenditure has little or no fiscal credibility, in either the short or long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe growth of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund means that net debt including the Fund assets is forecast to be down to 8.7 per cent of GDP by 30 June this year. By the end of the forecast period, this will fall to zero, highlighting the fact that financial assets will equal gross debt. This is, in many respects, as important a measure of the overall fiscal strength of the New Zealand government as gross debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, Budget 2004 contributes further to the government\u2019s role in supporting economic development. $500 million over four years of additional spending has been devoted to specifically economic development initiatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe are increasingly a confident and dynamic people. We want to see New Zealanders being the best they can be. Our policies are about encouraging more of the smart, creative thinking and the innovation that are so much part of the Kiwi approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe enjoy a unique and enviable lifestyle. A well-managed economy underpins that. We have invested in ideas, people, and networks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe more we are linked into the rest of the world, the more we will prosper. We need deeper and richer links with other countries. The pursuit of a single market with Australia is part of that. So is the pursuit of a free trade agreement with China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESuch deeper and richer links will help us find more buyers for our products and increase the value and quality of our exports. They will bring in more offshore investment, knowledge, and expertise to help our companies grow. They will help us develop smarter ideas, improve our education system, and fill gaps in our workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBudget 2004 provides $35 million over four years to enable New Zealand Trade and Enterprise to provide assistance to exporters to find markets and strategic partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThere is also funding of $26 million over four years for sector focussed development and funding of $42.6 million over four years to fund more offshore companies to partner growing New Zealand companies by deepening Investment New Zealand\u2019s offshore representation and expanding the Strategic Investment Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAdditional assistance of $40 million over four years will be provided to the education sector to develop stronger relationships offshore, both to protect and to promote New Zealand education and to give our system the benefits of greater international input.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFunding is provided for New Zealand to participate in the massive 2005 Aichi Trade Expo with associated funding to help us develop commercial and other opportunities in Japan that will arise during the six month long Expo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EInnovation is a key part of the government\u2019s economic drive. It is clear that increasingly many of our new business products, and processes will arise as a result of links between researchers and industries, firms, and individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBudget 2004 provides extra money to promote industry/research collaboration and linkages across disciplines; to promote increased international collaboration amongst scientists; to support the foundations for future innovation in core industries; and to improve the flow of knowledge and ideas between firms and research institutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThere is an increase of funding of $212 million for the Research, Science and Technology system over the next four years. Just over $50 million is allocated in 2004/05.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe largest increase in funding goes to Research for Industry, which rises by $17.3\u00A0million in 2004/05 and $19.2 million in each of the following three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe most important barriers to higher rates of sustainable growth relate to skills and productivity. While there are signs of longer term increases in labour productivity growth it remains a key factor placing a ceiling on our ability to grow faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe government is providing practical support to improve workplace productivity. The Workplace Productivity Group \u2013 which arose from a tripartite initiative between government, Business New Zealand, and the Council of Trade Unions \u2013 has now been set up. In addition, there are three specific initiatives in Budget 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe first is direct assistance to small and medium sized enterprises to help them self-manage workplace employment issues and health and safety, following a successful pilot last year in three communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe second is a linked employer-employee database to provide new and improved statistical information to assist business planning. Stage one was released in October last year and funding is now provided for stages two to four.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe third is a contingency fund to assist workers and businesses to promote and share good practice workplace relations and productivity examples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIn the post-school environment the rapid expansion of industry training continues. Funding is provided for both an increase in the average industry training subsidy and a further 500 Modern Apprenticeship places by June 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe ability of migrants with skills to match better the needs of the New Zealand labour market will be enhanced with increased English language training and more focussed career services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EEmployers\u2019 ability to find staff to fill their skills gaps will be assisted through targeting marketing and promotion about work opportunities in New Zealand to suitable prospective migrants and through linking employers and prospective employees through a new talent database on the Internet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOver the last four years the government has moved progressively to improve its capacity to deliver a range of assistance to the business sector. In my first budget funding of $68 million was provided for Trade New Zealand and $36 million for Industry New Zealand. Support for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise in 2004/05 will be $216 million, an increase of over 100 per cent, and further substantial increases will be considered in the context of Budget 2005. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOther major initiatives to underpin improved economic performance in order to achieve the government\u2019s social and economic goals are occurring outside of the context of Budget 2004. These include a review of the Resource Management Act, the development of a package to promote exploration for oil and gas, the finalisation of the structure of the electricity market, and consideration of further mechanisms to support both new businesses and the growth of existing businesses. Announcements on many of these will be made over the next few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, Budget 2004 continues the rebuilding of capacity in the core state sector. The most affected agencies are the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, and Corrections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis continues the work the government has engaged in to restore realistic baselines for departments. Looking forward, we wish to explore ways where such baselines can continue to be realistic over the long term while still maintaining pressure on departments to make the most efficient and effective use of public resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFor Budget 2004, an output pricing review has led to an increase in Corrections funding of $30 million for the coming year, rising to $40 million in out years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has an increase of $19 million for 2004/05, rising to $28 million in out years. The baseline review of the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services sees a lift of up to $61 million in 2004/05, rising to a maximum of $66 million in out years. Overall operating funding for Child, Youth and Family Services has risen from $231 million in 1999/2000 to $477 million for 2004/05, an increase of 106 per cent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDefence, Revenue, and Customs also receive substantial baseline increases, with the Defence increase being mainly due to addressing regular force pay relativity and Air Force staffing levels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, a Labour/Progressive government will always seek to place great emphasis on strengthening social provision, especially in health, education, and housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EHealth operating spending continues to grow at well in excess of the rate of government spending in general. Total operating expenditure for 2004/05 is $9.4\u00A0billion, compared with $8.6 billion in the current year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBudget 2004\u2019s health package makes a further substantial advance towards the government\u2019s goals for a fair, comprehensive, and efficient health system. District Health Boards will continue to move towards their Population Based Funding share.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFrom the public\u2019s perspective the most important advances will again be in primary health care. Funding is provided for the Care Plus programme for high users of primary health services. From 1 July lower cost primary care visits and $3\u00A0prescription charges will apply to all over 65 year olds enrolled in any Primary Health Organisation. Already, 3.1 million people are enrolled in PHOs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESpecific funding will be provided to increase the numbers of major joint replacements in order to reduce waiting lists for orthopaedic surgery. Fully implemented, the new programme, which doubles the current number of publicly funded operations, will cost up to $70 million a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOne element of health spending will peak in 2004/05 and then decline. That is the funding for meningococcal vaccination, which from 2005/06 onwards will move on to a steady state path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ETwo existing programmes will continue to be implemented. The extensive programme to upgrade and rebuild public hospital facilities will move forward, with projects currently underway or planned extending from Kaitaia to Invercargill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe Mental Health Blueprint will also advance another stage. Over the four years an extra $250 million will be spent in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EHousing spending will be further boosted in 2004/05. Apart from the housing aspects of the Working for Families package, further injections are made to Housing New Zealand Corporation (HNZC).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ETotal capital injections for housing activities in 2004/05 are $232 million. This combined with HNZC funding will enable an overall increase in housing stock of 1,054, the modernisation of 728 units, the reconfiguration of a further 20, improvements to 108 properties through the Healthy Housing programme, and continuing refurbishment of former Auckland City Council units. Total expenditure on housing is estimated to be in excess of $1.5 billion, with around half of this spent on the Accommodation Supplement. By 30 June 2005 it is anticipated that the total housing stock held by HNZC will be 66,314 houses. This compares with 61,512 at 30 June 1999, with plans at that date to shed a further 19,200 houses, according to the Housing New Zealand Asset Management Plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe Budget 2004 education package includes a new funding and regulatory system for early childhood education; further investment in quality teaching and additional resources for schools; additional funding for tertiary education institutions to implement the fee/course costs maxima out to 2007; increased funding rates for industry training; and a package of student support initiatives incorporating an increase to the student allowance parental income thresholds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBudget 2004 sees a significant additional investment of $2 billion operating spending in education over the next four years, bringing the total annual operating expenditure to $9.2 billion by 2007/08. This continues this government\u2019s commitment to lift education standards so that all young New Zealanders get the chance to aim high and succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe many initiatives include increased operational funding for schools, as well as increased funding to support secondary qualifications. Significant investment in modernising schools is occurring to provide a better equipped learning environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe most important part of Budget 2004 for education is major new investment in early childhood education through the provision of free early childhood education and increased funding to support quality early childhood education services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis will help give our children a crucial head start to go on and do well later in life. The government is committed to ensuring that every single child, regardless of background, is given the chance to reach his or her full potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOver four years the government will inject an extra $365 million into early childhood education. Compared with government spending in 1999, by 2007/08 the Labour-Progressive government will have increased spending in this most crucial area of education by 79 per cent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFrom 1 July 2007, three and four year olds will be entitled to 20 hours free early childhood education per week. Other initiatives in the Working for Families package will further encourage and support participation, thus making it easier for parents to return to the paid workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe additional spending also supports the implementation of the Strategic Plan for Early Childhood Education, which is designed to lift the quality of staff and, therefore, the education provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis budget fulfils an important aspect of our election promises to tertiary students. From the beginning of 2005 we will for the first time in thirteen years lift the ceiling on parental income that allows students under 25 to qualify for an allowance. An allowance will be available to any eligible student whose parents earn less than $62,148.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFurthermore, the eligibility test will be adjusted annually by the rate of inflation. This means we will not get back into the situation we inherited, where eligibility rates were slowly eaten away by inflation over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe have also needed to change some of the other eligibility rules to comply with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis budget also sees another year of significant investment to support the government\u2019s youth transitions goal that, by 2007, all 15 to 19 year olds will be engaged in appropriate education, training, work, or other options that will lead to long-term economic independence and wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ECentral to the $57 million package in this area is the formation of a Youth Transitions Service to improve the co-ordination of post-school local support services for at risk young people. The Service will roll out into 14 priority areas over three years, with a focus on at-risk 15 to 17 year olds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAlongside this, Budget 2004 provides pilot funding to 75 schools for senior school students to prepare learning and career plans, increasing funding for the hugely successful Gateway programme to expand to decile 6 schools by 2008, and additional funding for STAR. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIn Budget 2003 tertiary education funding rate increases were announced for the 2004/06 triennium. This year, ahead of the implementation of the Funding Category Review, the government has agreed to a further one-off increase of 0.9 per cent for 2005 only, bringing the total increase for 2005 to 3.2 per cent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIn the area of industry training, funding rates will be lifted over the period 2005/07 as part of the move towards a single funding rate for all Industry Training Organisations. This will entail an average funding rate increase of 7.7 per cent at a cost of $25 million over four years, and will ensure that ITOs covering 71 per cent of trainees receive an increased funding rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, Budget 2004 provides the resources for the government to continue its programme of tax base maintenance, tax reform, and examination of ways in which tax changes can contribute to economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EA high priority for the government is to ensure that everyone pays his or her fair share of tax. Over the last year, officials have been reviewing the tax laws applying to banks to determine whether they are sufficiently robust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe stimulus for the review has been the fact that the strong upward trend in banks\u2019 accounting profits has not been matched by the growth in their taxable profits and hence tax paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ELegislation to address any weaknesses in current tax rules applying to banks may be included in the taxation bill introduced later this year. A consultative process involving the banking industry and tax practitioners is underway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe government is reviewing the tax depreciation rules to see if there are ways of reducing tax biases within the rules and to resolve practical problems with their operation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe current rules relating to deductions for depreciation of assets were introduced in the early 1990s. I am concerned that they may be biased against investment in assets that have shorter lives, so the review is concentrating on that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAn officials\u2019 paper will be released shortly. The paper will also discuss whether the current depreciation rate for buildings is appropriate, and the growing practice of recharacterising rental houses into components to take advantage of high depreciation rates. Officials will report to the government in time for proposals to be included in the taxation bill later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe current rules for taxing savings, both in the domestic and international context, are complex, inconsistent, and potentially unfair. Such an environment is not conducive to savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWorking closely with the savings industry is an important next step towards the objective of improving significantly the tax rules around saving. Last year, at the request of the industry, officials and industry representatives began the process by considering a risk-free rate of return method of taxation as one possible approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe government will be working with the private sector to develop this broad proposal, as well as consider other options to reduce the many boundaries that are created by the current domestic and international tax rules for savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIn December last year the Periodic Report Group indicated that there is value in promoting greater use of work-based savings schemes as a way for New\u00A0Zealanders to save.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe have already announced the establishment of the new public service superannuation scheme but there is more to do. The government has recently established a Savings Product Working Group that will report by the end of August on ways to overcome barriers that might be inhibiting the use of work-based schemes. It is my desire to reach a point where all employers offer access to such a scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMuch is still made by some of the central importance of lowering the headline corporate tax rate. At 33 per cent New Zealand\u2019s rate is scarcely out of line with the OECD average of 32.3 per cent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIt is true that in New Zealand company tax receipts are a somewhat higher proportion of total tax revenue at 11.3 per cent, compared with the OECD average of 9.4 per cent. The difference is less marked if based upon proportion of GDP at 3.8 per cent versus the OECD average of 3.5 per cent. However, the often quoted comparison, Australia, is even higher at 14.9 per cent of total tax and 4.5 per cent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThat is despite the fact that Australia, like much of the rest of the OECD, also has substantial payroll taxes and a general capital gains tax. Thus when companies retain profits that normally leads to capital gains on shares. These gains are taxed in most countries but not New Zealand. This substantially reduces the effective overall tax rate on business in New Zealand compared with Australia and other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMoreover, New Zealand\u2019s lower top tax rate than most OECD countries and its imputation system (which not all countries share) mean that the effective top tax rate of 39 per cent on dividends paid to shareholders compares with 48.5 per cent in Australia, an OECD average of 50.7 per cent, and a United States figure of 70.3 per cent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThese facts make it impossible to substantiate the view that the corporate sector is overall more highly taxed in New Zealand than elsewhere in the developed world. In fact the reverse is clearly the case. It can also be argued that the mix of tax on the corporate sector is more economically efficient than in the great majority of the developed world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIf, however, the peak business organisations and others wish to argue that the key objective is to achieve a substantial lowering in the headline rate, since they argue this is all that counts in terms of international perception, then it is incumbent on them to accept a trade-off in terms of suggesting other elements which are near-universal elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis will mean that the proponents of lowering the headline rate will need to decide whether in fact such a trade-off outweighs the undoubted loss of efficiency and clarity in the system. I remain extremely sceptical that this is so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ECertainly the logic would suggest that small, marginal changes in the company tax rate will make little or no difference. Perhaps the best solution is a combined effort to promote the very real advantages of the overall New Zealand structure compared with countries such as Australia, which still leaves room for argument as to the virtue of lower tax rates as long as it is accepted that means lower expenditure, including in those areas crucial to business success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, the fundamental purpose of the tax system is to raise, in the fairest and most efficient manner possible, the revenue to meet the government\u2019s spending programmes. From time to time the opportunity arises for an initiative beyond the scale of the usual annual spending initiatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThanks to the combined effects of the government\u2019s fiscal prudence and New Zealand\u2019s economic success such an opportunity is now available. Even so, the fiscal headroom available in 2004/05 is limited and the Working for Families package is phased in over three fiscal years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe government\u2019s Working for Families programme makes tangible our commitment to ensuring that economic growth is pursued for its capacity to provide greater security and opportunity for all. It means greater ability to participate in the New Zealand lifestyle for many who find that difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWorking for Families has three key aims:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Eto make work pay by ensuring that people are better off by being in work and are rewarded for their work effort \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Eto ensure income adequacy, with a focus on low to middle income families with dependent children, to address issues of poverty, especially child poverty, and \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Eto support people into work by ensuring people get the assistance they should to support them into, and to remain in, work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThese objectives are achieved in a number of stages, beginning in October this year and concluding on 1 April 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ENearly 300,000 households will receive direct assistance by 1 April 2007. Over 60 per cent of families with dependent children will benefit from the combination of increases to Family Support, a new In-Work Payment, the increase in Family Tax Credit and changes to abatement rates and thresholds. The average gain for these families is $66 per week. Households in the $25,000 to $45,000 a year income range will benefit on average by around $100 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe estimated cost of the package, including implementation costs, will be $221 million in 2004/05, $664 million in 2005/06, $900 million in 2006/07, and $1.1 billion in 2007/08 and out years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWorking for Families is an expensive package because, unlike the efforts of the government in the early 1990s, it does not seek to make those on modest incomes feel better off by pushing those below them further into poverty. Using a poverty value measure of 60 per cent of median household income there is expected to be a 30 per cent reduction in child poverty by 2007/08. Using a 50 per cent measure, the expected reduction is 70 per cent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ELet us consider a few cases. First, a family with two children on a single modest wage of $30,000 a year will be better off, due to the family assistance measures alone, by $40 a week from 1 April 2005, nearly $95 a week from 1 April 2006, and nearly $115 a week from 1 April 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThese figures exclude gains from changes to Childcare Assistance and the Accommodation Supplement. These will increase the gains for many substantially. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOr take the case of a couple with two children, working 60 hours per week between them, earning $37,500 per year and paying $69 a week in childcare costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFrom 4 October they are $42 a week better off because of childcare changes. This rises to $82 a week from 1 April 2005, $88 a week from 3 October 2005, $143 a week from 1 April 2006, and $163 a week on 1 April 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EA couple with four children in central Auckland with a gross rental of $350 per week and a low single wage of $12 per hour will benefit by $10 per week on 1 October 2004 because of changes to the Accommodation Supplement. Their gains will increase to $93 a week from 1 April next year, $124 per week from 1 April 2006, and $164 a week from 1 April 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EA good example of how the package works is to compare two sole parents, living in Christchurch, each with two children under 16, paying $200 a week in rent but with one on the Domestic Purposes Benefit and the other in paid employment earning $30,000 a year with one child in fulltime childcare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBy the end of the package\u2019s introduction, the beneficiary family will be better off by nearly $37 a week. But the working mother and her children will be better off by nearly $129 a week. The rewards for paid employment are increased by over $90 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EA final good example would be a family with four young children on a single income of $55,000 a year. Such a middle income family will be much better off. From 1 April 2005 they will get an extra $70 a week, rising to nearly $110 a week on 1 April 2006, and nearly $150 a week on 1 April 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to compare the gains for this family with other options which have been suggested. A 20 per cent flat rate of tax, at a fiscal cost of somewhere around $5.5 billion a year, would deliver a gain of just $39 a week. On the other hand, the Minister of Finance, with no dependent children, would gain over $600 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EA universal family benefit of $15 a week for the first child and $10 a week for each subsequent child would deliver $45 a week, much less than the Working for Families package, and with no increased rewards for employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThese very substantial increases in the incomes of ordinary New Zealanders in the Working for Families package are achieved by the following:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ean increase in the Family Support rates of $25 per week for the first child and $15 per week for each subsequent child from 1 April 2005 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ean increase to $27,500 a year of family income from 1 April 2006 in the threshold at which Family Support starts to abate and the replacement of the two abatement rates with a single rate of 30 cents in the dollar \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ea further increase in Family Support rates of $10 per week per child from 1 April 2007 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ethe introduction from 1 April 2006 of an In-Work Payment for families with dependent children of $60 per week plus an additional $15 per week for the fourth and each subsequent child. The Child Tax Credit will be abolished subject to certain grandparenting provisions \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Eeligibility for the In-Work Payment will extend to those in receipt of New Zealand Superannuation or Veterans\u2019 Pension with dependent children who meet the work hours requirement and those on accident compensation who would have met the same requirements \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ethe rates and thresholds for Family Support and thresholds for Childcare Assistance will be adjusted regularly from 1 April 2008. Each adjustment will occur on any 1 April after the cumulative CPI increase has reached 5 per cent \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EChildcare Assistance thresholds will be increased by about 50 per cent on 4 October 2004 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOut of School Care and Recreation Subsidy rates will on the same date increase to match Childcare Subsidy rates \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Eall Childcare Assistance rates will increase by 10 per cent on 4 October 2004 and a further 10 per cent on 3 October 2005. These increases will be in addition to annual 1 April adjustments in line with the CPI \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ethe removal of the abatement of Accommodation Supplement for beneficiaries on the first $80 of non-benefit gross income from 1 October 2004 and greater access to Accommodation Supplement for non-beneficiaries \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Ethe creation of a new Accommodation Supplement area on 1 April 2005 with various increases in the maxima payable, and \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003Eincreases in Orphan\u2019s Benefit, Unsupported Child\u2019s Benefit, and Foster Care Allowance from 1 April 2005. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThere are a large number of detailed changes associated with these moves. These include significant simplification of the benefit system by shifting the child component of main working age benefits into Family Support and stricter controls on hardship assistance. A major publicity campaign will be undertaken to ensure people are aware of their entitlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, this is the largest single package of changes to the benefit system and assistance for families since the benefit cuts of 1991. I am grateful for the support committed to the package by United Future which will ensure nearly 300,000 families are better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis government was not elected to slash the incomes of the poor, any more than any previous New Zealand government in living memory actually was. But, unlike our predecessors, we intend to act according to the expectations of the public in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EGreat care has been taken in assembling this package to identify any possible individual losers and to ensure there are none. For many on benefits with children the total increases in income due to the various measures taken will easily exceed the size of the benefit cuts that occurred in 1991.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBut for those in employment, the gains are very much more substantial and extend well up the income range. In particular, the incentives for moving from benefit into employment are significantly increased.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThat is particularly so with the introduction of the new In-Work Payment on 1 April 2006 which will also, for the great majority of families, be simpler to understand and administer than the current Child Tax Credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBudget 2004 makes work pay. It builds further on our previous work in building the skills we need for a successful, dynamic economy. It provides further assistance to New Zealand businesses. It puts in place processes to assist in lifting productivity and savings. It boosts research, science, and technology. It reduces the costs of tertiary education. It builds a stronger primary health care system and addresses particular needs in terms of orthopaedic surgery. It salts further money away for the future to ensure the baby boomer generation can have a decent retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAnd it does so while maintaining our reputation for fiscal prudence and for steady, predictable management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, Budget 2004 delivers on the programmes and promises taken to the people in 2002. It is not a budget for the few or for vested interests. It is a budget for the many and especially for those for whom a Labour-Progressive government is the best hope for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e1ce9b91ba94510b0a39f45ef3a1c88\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002207963dce326a47abb98123a3a704e2e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207963dce326a47abb98123a3a704e2e5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I hereby present the Budget 2004 Speech, the Fiscal Strategy Report and Economic and Fiscal Update, the Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the year ending 30 June 2005, and the Departmental Forecast Reports and Statements of Intent 2004. I move, That these papers be published.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221347f180757a484b90a8c5fd0c718c41\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d79025adaf5f44018e199a673b61a7f6\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022 data-id=\u0022d82ff888446e431e944c5e856bde5fc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d82ff888446e431e944c5e856bde5fc6\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That all the words after \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following inserted: \u201Cthis House has no confidence in the Labour-led Government because it has squandered New Zealand\u2019s greatest ever opportunity to invest in policies which would restore this country to the levels of prosperity enjoyed by Australians; because it has chosen for New Zealanders policies which promote dependence rather than independence; and because after five years of over-taxing hard-working New Zealanders, it has embarked on a programme of cynically-timed election year giveaways to many of those same New Zealanders, funded by their own taxes.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EPerhaps unusually for a Leader of the Opposition, I want to begin my speech by saying there are some things in this Budget with which the National Party agrees. For months we have called for relief for low and middle income New Zealanders. For months we have called for the encouraging of people off benefits into employment. For months we have recognised that providing more support for childcare and early childhood education would be highly desirable. For months it has been clear that we need more vigorous steps to reduce waiting lists for elective surgery. To the extent that those priorities have been addressed by this Budget we agree with the objective, if not always with the method of delivery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EBut beyond that, we can see little of merit. This Budget is, at its core, a belated series of bribes, cynically timed for maximum political effect, which fails totally to lift New Zealand\u2019s living standards towards those in Australia. To begin with, it is worth noting that the relief for low and middle income families has come in the second Budget of this Government\u2019s second term\u2014in Dr Cullen\u2019s fifth Budget. All through that period, New Zealanders have been over-taxed so that Dr Cullen could boast of ever-larger surpluses. Those surpluses represent the extent to which New Zealanders have been over-taxed. Not until this fifth Budget has he seen any merit in providing some relief from that over-taxation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EWhy the long delay? It was because until a few months ago the Government was confident that it could win another term without providing help to the families that need it. Suddenly the Government is contemplating the possibility that it might lose the next election, and it thinks that dishing out the dosh is the best way of trying to shore up its diminishing electoral support. But it is even more cynical, because much of the dosh will not be delivered until shortly after the election. So the Government is trying to imply that people who want to have that extra help will need to vote Labour, in case a National Government comes to power and blocks that extra help. This is a vote-buying exercise of the same character as the policy U-turns that have been typical of this Government in the last few months, with school closures, the Resource Management Act, treaty issues, the seabed and foreshore, and the age of consent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003ESecondly, it is important to remember that the Government itself has no resources to assist anybody. Any assistance it provides to some New Zealanders, first has to be taken away from other New Zealanders. Of course, for the last 5 years the Government has been taking it away from most of us. Over that period the Government has increased the top tax rate, and has increased taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, and petrol. These and other tax increases now raise more than $1 billion a year and, as a result, the average household has paid an extra $2,600 in tax since this Government came to power late in 1999. In addition, the gradual inflation of money incomes into higher tax brackets has added a further half a billion dollars a year to the Government\u2019s coffers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EFor the 1999 election the Labour Party promised that only 5 percent of taxpayers would be adversely affected by its proposal to raise the top tax rate from 33 to 39 percent. Today, some 12 percent of all taxpayers are paying tax at the rate of 39 percent, including almost 20 percent of full-time taxpayers. One-third of all taxpayers are already into at least the 33 percent tax bracket, and more than half of all full-time taxpayers are in that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E When GST is taken into account, more than half of all full-time taxpayers face tax of over 40 percent on additional income. At last low and middle income families with children have some prospect of relief\u2014300,000 families in all\u2014but only by 2007. What about all the other hard-working New Zealanders? What about the young couples who are working hard, saving hard towards their first home, and deferring having children so that they can get the mortgage down\u2014doing the responsible thing? There is nothing for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EWhat about the middle-aged couples who, having raised and educated their children, are trying to put something aside for their retirement? There is nothing for them. What about the single person who is trying to get a small business off the ground, who employs three people and would like to employ one more? There is nothing for him or her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThere are 1.5 million households in New Zealand. The Budget tries to buy the support of just 300,000 of them\u2014one household in five. The other 1.2 million households keep on paying tax and are not even asked to be patient. There is no suggestion at all that this Government has the slightest intention of reducing personal tax rates or the company tax rate at any stage at all. The Government just intends to keep on raking it in, and dishing it out to those who it hopes will vote it back into office. In the fundamental sense this is a Budget that punishes the most hard-working, the most responsible, and precisely those citizens who are determined to ensure that they stand on their own two feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EIt is perhaps most worrying of all that there is no indication that the Government expects any increase in New Zealand\u2019s trend growth rate. Dr Cullen is fiddling while growth slows. When the Government was first elected, it talked about getting New Zealand\u2019s per capita income back into the top half of the OECD within 10 years. In the Speech from the Throne in August 2002 the Government again indicated that it saw \u201Cits most important task as building the conditions for increasing New Zealand\u2019s long term sustainable rate of economic growth.\u201D The Government no longer talks of getting to the top half of the OECD within 10 years. It suggests it will do it \u201Cover time\u201D. The reality is that it has abandoned the objective as too hard but has not had the intestinal fortitude to tell New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThe Budget documents project that growth will be markedly slower on average over the next 10 years than it was over the last 10 years. This has to be the great tragedy of the fifth Labour Government. It has squandered a unique opportunity to lift our relative living standards, to close the gap with Australia, and to create a place that our most able, innovative, and enterprising people want to return to. When the history of this Government is told, this will surely be its epitaph: \u201CThey dropped the ball.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThis Government has been the beneficiary of some of the best growth in the last 40 years. That good growth has nothing whatsoever to do with anything the Government itself has done. In part the good growth has been the result of the economic reforms of previous Governments\u2014the policies that this Government has tried desperately to brand as failed. When talking to overseas fund managers Dr Cullen usually admits this himself. In addition, the Government came to office at the end of 1999 at a time when the economy was already growing at almost 5 percent per annum. The exchange rate, which had started falling in 1997, was falling towards its lowest level in history in late 2000, providing a huge boost to provincial New Zealand and, indeed, to all export industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThen, just as the exchange rate was stabilising and beginning to appreciate, the world witnessed the tragic events of September 11, 2001. What had been a net outflow of long-term migrants from the country of some 10,000 people a year in the 2 years to June 2001, turned into a huge net inflow in the next 2 years. So a domestic building boom followed the strong growth in export industries. On top of this, central banks around the world dropped interest rates to levels never seen before, sparking a worldwide boom in property prices with New Zealand included. So none of the reasons for recent strong growth had anything to do with policies adopted by this Government. It just reaped the benefits in the form of unprecedented Budget surpluses and strong employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003ESo what does the Government do? It sprays money around to a small minority of households that it hopes will vote for it in the next election. By doing so it converts families that earn as much as $70,000 into beneficiaries, dependent for part of their income on the grace and favour of the Government, thereby further entrenching a debilitating culture of dependency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThe Government has promised to spend more on health, while providing no assurance that further spending on health will actually deliver the shorter waiting lists, improved medical services, or the improved medicines that all New Zealanders deserve. We know that in the 3 years to 2002-03 Government spending on health rose by 22 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E Over the same period, the number of elective operations and the number of total operations actually fell by 3 to 4 percent. Between December 1999 and April this year, the number of people drawing the sickness benefit and invalids benefit has gone from 86,000 to 113,000\u2014an increase of 31 percent. Simply adding more money to a centrally directed, bureaucratic, and top-heavy health sector will not deliver the outcomes that all of us want to see. The Government proposes to spend money on a whole raft of programmes designed, it says, to help business and exporters, and to help grow the economy. But in every survey of business opinion, the business community gives the Government the same message: it should get rid of the obstacles to growth, reduce compliance costs, fix the Resource Management Act, stop pushing up the costs of operating a business through passing legislation like the Holidays Act and the Employment Relations Law Reform Bill, and cut the company tax rate so that all businesses\u2014and not just those favoured by Mr Anderton\u2014can grow and prosper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThe business community can see that in the last 5 years, 21 of the 30 OECD countries have reduced their company tax rate\u2014but not this Government. Back in April 2000\u2014more than 4 years ago\u2014Dr Cullen said that his Government would like to reduce the company tax rate \u201Cas fiscal conditions permit\u201D. Perhaps he thought he had to say that to his audience, which was in Hong Kong, and for whom a 33 percent tax rate seemed inordinately high. Perhaps he thought he could say that in Hong Kong without anybody reporting it back in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s Budget seems likely to do nothing to curb the culture of extravagance and waste that has grown up in the last few years: the hip hop tours, the gross abuses of the tertiary education funding system that my colleague Bill English has highlighted in recent days, and all the rest. There is plenty of money for dopey polytechc courses, a bigger bureaucracy, and to bribe public servants into joining unions, but not enough money to clear the backlog of drug-testing, so that the makers of methamphetamine can be prosecuted. There is not enough money to clear the growing backlog of court cases, and not enough money\u2014or the will\u2014to keep violent offenders in jail. There is not enough money to treat cancer patients in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EWe know that between 1997 and 2000, the number of people employed in what Statistics New Zealand calls \u201CGovernment administration and defence\u201D decreased by nearly 8 percent. In the 3 years from 2000 to 2003, on the other hand, the number increased by over 10 percent, and we know that the extra people were not employed in the armed services. The Government is employing more public servants to take money from us, so that it can employ more public servants to give it back to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003ETragically for hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders and their children, the Government is giving it back to us with no expectation, or no insistence, that we will help ourselves. The Government has provided some carrot to encourage people off benefits, but has removed the stick. There is no strong pressure for people to get off their backsides and get jobs, despite a desperate shortage of employees in most parts of the country. There is no adequate policing of people moving from the unemployment benefit to the sickness benefit. There is no adequate policing of the domestic purposes benefit; a situation that creates strong financial incentives for a woman not to name the father of her child or children and not to get married. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EBeing soft on welfare may sound a kind and compassionate thing to do and it may make the Government feel good, but it certainly does not help those locked into a life of dependency, deprivation, and degradation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003ETwo years ago, Dr Cullen said that it would be clear by the middle of this year whether New Zealand was on track to lift its growth rate so that it could gradually get back into the top half of the OECD. Well, the middle of 2004 is just 1 month away, and this Budget makes it clear that Treasury sees no prospect of any lift in our growth rate. In its report last December, the OECD suggested that the slide in our relative living standards, which was a feature of the 1970s and 1980s, had been arrested, but \u201Ca further acceleration\u2014necessary if New Zealand is to move back into the top half of the OECD ranking, as the government is intent on doing\u2014is still not in sight.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EDr Cullen cannot be expected to carry all the blame for this deplorable situation. The Prime Minister and other Ministers must share the blame. But as Minister of Finance, he must bear primary responsibility for the Budget\u2019s failure to give most hard-working New Zealanders any tax relief, its failure to reduce the company tax rate, and its continued waste of taxpayers\u2019 money on extravagant and possibly fraudulent programmes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E It is little wonder that that same document itself makes it clear that there is no prospect whatsoever of achieving what the Government claims to be its highest priority: namely, raising the living standards of all New Zealanders to those enjoyed in other developed countries. Never before had a Minister of Finance and a Government faced such an opportunity to invest wisely in the future of our country. Never before had a Minister enjoyed such capacity to say to hard-working, innovative New Zealanders that he saw them as the key to unlocking the country\u2019s potential, and that the Government would back them. Never before had a Government enjoyed such an opportunity to say to the half million New Zealanders living abroad\u2014the children and grandchildren of those still living here\u2014that they could have a great future back home. But this Government did not see this Budget as a Budget of opportunity. Asked to choose between self-reliance and dependency, it chose the latter. Given the chance to chart a bold and better way forward, it had no answers. The clear and overwhelming message in this Budget to all those who believe New Zealand can do better is that the only way to achieve that is to bring about a change of Government in the next election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u00221c6959e0d9f7464fbe2d2b9b74c59c86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c6959e0d9f7464fbe2d2b9b74c59c86\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The only squandered opportunity in sight today was that sad speech. I agree with the Minister of Education: sack Richard Long if that is the best he can do! Where was the policy? Where was it? A response to the Budget is the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s opportunity to set out what he would do. Well, I do not know whether I missed something, but I must have missed quite a lot. He failed to do that. Most conspicuously, he tried to paint economic success as failure, when the facts tell a completely different story from that uninspiring dirge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI think future Opposition speakers from the National Party should explain one thing: why is it that when Labour, supported by United Future, puts up improvements to family support, family tax credits, and child tax credits, that is a bribe, but National\u2019s tax cuts are not a bribe? Explain that to me! I will credit the National Party with one single policy\u2014not that it was outlined today. The single policy is tax cuts\u2014voodoo economics. The National Party would cut taxes while also doubling defence expenditure, cutting expenditure on health, education, and superannuation, bringing back user-pays, and privatising. What does all of that do for New Zealand families? Absolutely nothing! The message today is that a Labour-led Government lifts families up; National impoverishes families, as it did all the way through the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI congratulate the Minister of Finance on his work in bringing this Budget together. I thank all the Ministers who have contributed to the very significant new initiatives in this Budget\u2014and there are many significant new initiatives. I am very proud of this Budget. I am proud of it because, like every single Budget delivered by this Labour-led Government over 4\u00BD years, it delivers not to elites but to heartland New Zealand\u2014to our families, our superannuitants, our workers, and to those who need the care and support of all of us and get no sympathy from right-wing parties in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe Budget does not deliver just by spending on important initiatives; it also delivers by keeping a very firm hand on economic management, and this Government, with the Minister of Finance in charge of the economy, has consistently done that through 4\u00BD years. Obviously, what is delivered in this Budget today could not be delivered without economic success. The facts are that under this Labour-led Government economic growth has averaged over 3.5 percent. The facts are that under this Labour-led Government, unemployment is at its lowest level in 16\u00BD years. Since Dr Brash likes international comparisons, how about our having the fourth-lowest unemployment rate in the Western World? The figures on unemployment speak for themselves. In the March quarter of 1999, under a National Government, the figure was 7.2 percent; in the March quarter of 2004, under a Labour-led Government, the figure was 4.3 percent. In May 1999, under a National Government, close to 144,000 people were on unemployment benefits; in May 2004, under a Labour-led Government, there were under 68,000. That is well under half.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EWhat is there about that strong economic performance that the National Party does not understand? This is not about squandering opportunity; this is about creating opportunity steadily over 4\u00BD years. From the beginning, this Labour-led Government has undertaken to invest the fruits of growth right back into meeting the needs of heartland New Zealand and building a stronger economy. That has been done over 4\u00BD years, and it is what this Budget delivers. The earlier Budgets built the platform for stronger economic performance, and we began making huge investments in education and skills training, including apprenticeships for school leavers. We boosted spending on research and development, and I am proud to say that today\u2019s Budget takes the total increase in the Government research and development spend to 45 percent over our five Budgets. That is a staggering figure. We developed Smart Growth strategies, working alongside our regions, industries, and companies to boost economic performance. We changed the immigration policy to recruit more migrants who could meet labour force needs. As unemployment continued to fall, those Jobs Jolt policies kicked in to get even more people off benefits and into work, and those policies are working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EFrom our earliest Budgets, we also began very badly needed reinvestments in public and social services and infrastructure. I can say today that for one of those core services, the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, over the period of this Government, with this Budget, its expenditure is doubling\u2014and it needed to double. We redistributed to meet the needs of our families, superannuitants, and workers. Our Budgets have delivered on every one of our election pledges\u2014namely, to lift the rate of superannuation, to bring back income-related rents for State housing, to make tertiary education more affordable, and to drop waiting times for treatment in our public health system. All of those things have been delivered on. As well, we have invested heavily in education overall, in mental health and primary health-care, in State housing, and in core services like our police. Two years ago a new policy\u2014paid parental leave\u2014helped our working parents to have time at home that they needed with their new babies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EAll along, the Budgets of this Government have struck a very careful balance\u2014a balance between investing back into growth, people, and services, while maintaining a solid operating surplus. It is that balance that continues in this Budget today. We will invest back into growth, people, and services as much and as fast as we can afford, and we will invest where it is needed most\u2014not where it is needed least, like the tax-cuts policy of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe big focus of this year\u2019s Budget is on New Zealand\u2019s working families. They have been helped in many ways by our previous Budgets. But for this Budget it has long been our goal to directly improve the household income of our low and middle income families. That is not best done by across-the-board tax cuts. The major beneficiaries of across-the-board tax cuts will always be the top income earners. So how do we help in this Budget? We help by lifting family support, lifting the family tax credit, changing abatement levels, replacing the child tax credit with a large in-work payment for our working families, and increasing the subsidies for childcare and for accommodation costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EWhat does this mean for New Zealand families? It means there is a substantial redistribution upwards of wealth in their favour, beginning in this financial year, and continuing to build over a 3-year period. What a contrast with the big redistribution downwards of the National Government when it took office and cut the incomes of our poorest people! As the Minister of Finance has outlined, this Budget means a lift for more than 300,000 families\u2014that is, over 60 percent of families with dependent children in this country. Who could say that they are not the most deserving New Zealanders? They are the most deserving of a lift in this Budget right now. We know that for our families in the $25,000 to $45,000 per annum bracket it will deliver an average of around $100 a week in the pocket over the 3 years in direct family assistance. That does not include any gains that may come from accommodation supplement improvements and the childcare subsidies. I am proud that this Budget will significantly drop child poverty. This country should be ashamed of the levels of child poverty reached as a result of the 1991 benefit cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe fact is that higher incomes and better opportunities off shore in the past have been reasons for our people to leave our country. A low-income, low-skilled, low-value, low-growth economy was a crippling burden on our people\u2019s aspirations. The National Government has to take a lot of responsibility for that. We have set out to change those features of the New Zealand economy. Our economy is growing well, and better than those of most Western countries. Our unemployment is lower now than that of most Western countries. Our skills levels are rising and our economy is moving up the value chain. None of that happens by accident. It happens because a Labour-led Government has smart policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe real test of policies is when the benefit is felt in the pockets of our families. This Budget delivers directly a growth dividend to our low and middle income families. It makes them more financially secure. It means they can look ahead to the future with confidence, they can better meet their commitments, and they can afford some extras for the kids, and why not? The Minister of Finance has set out a number of scenarios of how families will benefit. There is one clear message today to New Zealand\u2019s low and middle income families: Labour delivers to their family. That is the message. Families are better off with Labour, and they are better off because Labour both runs a strong economy and invests everything it can back in its people, and its services, and in growing the economy. Our pledge to New Zealand families is that we will keep on delivering in that way so that our families can get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI think it is very important to emphasise that making work pay is central to this Budget. Yes, families on benefits will gain, but the biggest gains come to those who are in work and those who move into work. It has long been said that many low-income families with kids are little or no better off in work than on a benefit, once one takes a number of costs\u2014abatement rates and so on\u2014into account. There was a different approach to increasing the gap between work and benefits, and that was the 1991 Tory approach, which was to slash the benefit. Our approach is to make work pay by lifting the incomes of New Zealand\u2019s working families. The message of this Budget to our families is clear: they will be better off when they go to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EAnd we want them to go to work. With low unemployment and skills shortages, our country needs more workers now. In particular, we need to boost the numbers of women in the workforce. Our country falls well behind top OECD countries in the proportion of women at work. Of course, top OECD countries have long done much more to support their working parents, and our Government is taking steps to see that this country catches up. A big step forward was taken with the introduction of paid parental leave. This Budget provides for the scheme to be extended this year and next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E It also makes very big improvements to childcare. The rates of childcare subsidy are increasing significantly, and many more families will be eligible for the subsidy. Overall, at least 28,000 more families, with 33,000 children, will benefit with gains of about $23 a week per child, on average, from next year. As well, dramatic improvements in early childhood education are signalled. From mid-2007, 3 and 4-year-olds will be entitled to have 20 hours\u2019 free attendance at community-based early childhood services. Our kindergartens have long been free, and this extends that tradition to other community-based early childhood education and care. We are investing in quality. We are investing in quantity. We are investing a spectacular $365 million more over 4 years in early childhood education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI am proud of what our Government is doing in this Budget for families, for children, and for education, because I know that, taken together, these changes mean more opportunity, higher living standards, and more Kiwis in work and paying their way. That is a fantastic output from this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThere are many other significant initiatives in the Budget presented by the Minister of Finance. I announced yesterday, with the Minister of Health, a doubling of the number of major joint operations to be undertaken in this country over the next 4 years. That will take our rate of intervention for those operations to the same level as that in the United Kingdom, and above that in Australia. Now, orthopaedics are going to be able to meet the same targets we are meeting in many other areas of surgery. This is very big news for older New Zealanders, who have the major call on these kinds of operations. We know how painful and distressing bad hips and bad knees are, and how they destroy quality of life and limit independence and mobility. We know the whole new lease of life that comes from being able to have these critically important operations. Our senior citizens deserve no less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EThe other good news for our older New Zealanders in this Budget is the commitment to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. We in the Labour Party believe in saving now to save New Zealand superannuation for the future. That is why there is another $2.1 billion going into the fund this year. That fund is essential to the future security of income for older Kiwis, and this Labour-led Government is totally committed to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EOver 4\u00BD years we have worked in many ways to make tertiary education more affordable, and for this second term in Government we signalled we would move on student allowances, and that pledge is honoured in this Budget today. We will be spending another $110 million a year on student support. That will mean more move from partial allowances to full allowances, more who got nothing will get partial allowances, and some who have been getting partial allowances will get a higher amount, as well. That is delivering on commitments made at the last election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003ETime does not permit me to go into many other areas of the Budget. I note, though, that it does provide, over the 4 years, for close to half a billion dollars more to go on strengthening the economic performance. Investments there will range from spending on skills, to developing export markets, to increasing the research and development spend, to attracting quality offshore investment, to growing our companies, to increasing the value of our industries, and to negotiating the very best trade rules we can for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003EI say with confidence that this Budget will take New Zealand even further ahead. It is a Budget that is good for families. It is good for the economy. It is a Budget that keeps a balance between economic and social investments. It keeps a strong operating surplus. It is a Budget that is all about growth and opportunity. It is a Budget for getting Kiwis back into work and making work pay. I say it is a Budget that only a Labour-led Government in New Zealand can deliver, and I am proud of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6ccc05a6a2e4b029444a8fe1cefec22\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next party leader, I want to say that an undertaking was given, which I appreciate, that party leaders\u2019 speeches will be heard in silence. I think that is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5d38309c2414fb4babd9e4a49b9cfec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5d38309c2414fb4babd9e4a49b9cfec\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E We gave no such undertaking, and I do not mind if people wish to interject while I am speaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to tell New Zealanders today that they have just heard it. They have just heard another duel of wits between unarmed economic opponents\u2014two tired old parties that have run out of ideas, or to paraphrase a former United States President, they have sort of lost that vision thing. There are the same old economic arguments, one with a socialist twist, and one with a reactionary twist from Treasury. Budgets are supposed to be a time when Governments account for their stewardship and the economy, and they outline plans for the future. All we have had is leaks and leaks; all the spin and all the hype. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThat is why I want to move the following amendment to the amendment: That the amendment be amended by omitting all the words after the word \u201CHouse\u201D and inserting the following words: \u201Chas no confidence in the Labour minority Government and records with regret that this Government has failed to provide leadership and policy to enhance New Zealand\u2019s export performance and per capita incomes, has failed to address New Zealand\u2019s burgeoning balance of payments deficit, has failed to deal with escalating crime, has failed to provide sufficient numbers of police, has failed to deliver a first world health system, has failed to curb the burgeoning Treaty of Waitangi industry, has done nothing to stop excessive immigration, and does nothing to lay the foundations for building a better, more prosperous nation for future generations of New Zealanders.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhat we have heard today is the back-end of a month of leaks and propaganda. This is a Budget to buy votes, not a Budget to build a better future for this country. It is a pork barrel Budget aimed at one thing\u2014just keeping, oh so definitely, political power. It is a cynical statement signed by a cynical group of people. If a public company in this country had published such a document, it would be tagged by the auditors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Government boasted of a $7 billion surplus, but then it could not prove it had one. Where is the money? Where is the cash? What does a surplus in New Zealand mean any more, and what does it mean these days? In the real world, people would be saying that it was cooking the books\u2014it was doing an Enron. This duplicity simply would not be tolerated in any other First World country. Worst of all, not only does it give false hope to naive National, which is calling for extravagant tax cuts for all its rich mates, but it gives ordinary people false hope that this Budget will deliver something of substance to them now. This is not a Budget of opportunity. It is simply a Budget for opportunists\u2014political opportunists\u2014and it showed today in the way Government members cheered every small thing that would take away people\u2019s self-reliance and independence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHere is the truth. The same slide to dependency that began in 1984 will continue while prospects for real growth and real returns diminish. The core of this Budget, and all the hype, proves it. It is not about self-reliance. It is about how they can control people\u2019s lives. The Government seems content to let our economy drift along aimlessly on the backs of people importing. It is about people importing this economy, and about consumption, rather than a prosperous way to the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis Government does not guarantee better educational standards, better health services, better housing services, or ensure that New Zealanders are in real First World jobs with prospects for a real future. The people of this country\u2014the working families\u2014want hope. They do not want slogans. They want something back from their investment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265cb312456dd404c8c1774293396b0df\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t get anything here!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c0d8d0c24d457db0a08574d801fc28\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The member is right. They got nothing back today other than \u201Cif you vote for us, we might give you this.\u201D They see a Government that has taken them for granted these past 4 years, and is now saying: \u201CWe will give you a little back, but only if you vote for us.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E Labour today lost the plot, as it has these last 6 months. After all, this is taxpayers\u2019 money that it is talking about. It is hard-earned, and ordinary people who pay First World taxes expect to get First World services. Let us ask ourselves some simple questions: will this Budget bring First World incomes from better salaries and wages for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbe8f7fff35d4293b9219fa0c6a08c63\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250707149fe2846cfb86679b572baa17e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it will not. It tries to do that by welfare. Does it seek to make New Zealanders self-reliant and independent of Government? No, it corrodes self-reliance and corrupts independence of will and action. Is this Budget pro-business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed0d8758513240ac98a1e0a857559d4e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207ebb5ddacec432c9a0145df3eeac1fe\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it simply does not care about an environment to nurture and sustain business, and small business in particular. Is the Budget pro-development and pro-infrastructure? No. It is pro-consumption. Apparently in New Zealand, we are supposed to eat our way to health. That is the new strategy. Is the Budget pro-education and pro-student?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227638bdb639647a8b100914c63ff242b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022559499113f804c58b7ad067c0725899d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No. We live in a society where students sometimes graduate owing over $3,000 for every year they have lived\u2014$75,000, $80,000. What does the Government do? Nothing. This is a high-cost, high-tax Government that taxes New Zealanders more than any other Government in our history. The figures prove it. People must be asking themselves where the real Budget is that we never heard about today. Where was it in the telephone books of information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255a52b090e114f718f6009f51d3f8f15\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t here before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8fbbd3aba54732a6f01a6165ae06f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell members where it is right now. It is right here. It was hidden in telephone books of hype and spin, but we have found it. We have the hidden Budget right here, and we will present part of it on behalf of the long-suffering New Zealand taxpayer and citizen. First of all, there are tens of thousands of unwanted overstayers, and at least one convicted million-dollar terrorist, living here legally at the taxpayers\u2019 expense. I have here a cheque from the real Budget, which goes to Ahmed Zaoui and his associates. As members can see, it is a blank cheque. It is for the lifetime support of Ahmed Zaoui, Mrs Zaoui, Uncle and Auntie Zaoui, Grandpa Zaoui, and all the other friends, relations, and bogus asylum-seekers, refugees, and flotsam that have arrived here in the past 4 years. Labour says: \u201CTe Papa. Make our place your place, and we won\u2019t spare the expense.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe next cheque is for a one-way ticket for the fat cats and their fellow travellers on the treaty gravy train. I have a few of these cheques. This is the secret Budget. We say to the fat cats in the treaty gravy-train industry that they have been making millions milking grievances whilst genuine M\u0101ori claimants miss out. Under both National, behind me, and Labour, they have made buckets of cash whilst the M\u0101ori they claim to act for are lucky to get a kia ora, or a \u201Ckia oree\u201D. We say that they might have a ticket to ride, but the last train to the Waitangi station has just left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EEducation is very important in New Zealand. It is so important to the future of this country that this Government is giving it away. Here is the cheque I am referring to: it is a never-ending cheque to tens and tens of thousands of foreign students, whilst New Zealand students suffer in their own country. In keeping with Labour\u2019s global one-world vision, and on behalf of taxpayers, the Government is donating much of our tertiary education system to foreigners. Why have 100 New Zealand graduates when we can have 100,000 foreign graduates courtesy of the New Zealand taxpayer? The Government says to those young New Zealanders trying to get an education: \u201CTough, get another loan! The banks are open, get another loan!\u201D We say that education should be an investment, not a cost. It should be an investment in New Zealand, not in Asia or anywhere else. We owe our young people better than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAnother group in our society has been given a big boost by this Budget today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226240b30603c0433c8906615a13017dc2\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c192731da3404a83b8545ed34246e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is the violent offenders, the drug dealers, the fraudsters, the rapists, and the predators in our society. They have been given a great deal today, and that contribution is tangible support of this Government\u2019s motto: \u201CCrime does pay\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298c7733f21804876a2199a39550689bf\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: What about the victims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246277c196df540f09ff0848eda2109d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if by some freakish accident offenders do go to jail, there is extra money to pay for State-recruited \u201Ccomfort women\u201D to provide all the comforts of home. Jails used to be a place where we punished people; now they are State-run motels with a bit on the side, inside. There is no amount on this cheque, but it is a \u201Cget out of jail free\u201D pass, and here it is on the back. [Interruption] Especially from the poor boy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c34142497cca4956b721b084ca00264e\u0022\u003EMarc Alexander\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I notice that the Rt Hon Winston Peters is actually signing the cheques he is holding up. It is his signature that is appearing on the cheques.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022594aaf250ae245db9ce9b834bc479bee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, and the member knows it. I will adjust the member\u2019s speaking time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c53caa7c018b49748dbc0f7048571199\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: They do not miss much in the United Future party. They never miss a trick\u2014until it comes to coalition negotiations, then it is roll over, play the poodle, put out the welcome mat, and become a doormat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI cannot let this chance go by without thanking Australia, our nearest neighbour, for trying to maintain a First World health system for New Zealand. It would be churlish not to mention it. Our next cheque is made out to the Australian health system, and it is coming out in large doses. It is supposed to be a secret, but the real reason this Government bought back Air New Zealand was so that it could fly our sick people to Australia\u2014planeloads of them, thousands and thousands of them. The cancer patients will be followed by the heart patients, then the ear, nose, and throat patients, then cataract surgery patients, to name but a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E This, in a once-great country, is acceptable to those people on the Government benches, because they think that by reason of their social engineering they will make it back into office at the next election. It is a fact that it is soon to become Government policy that all sick people will go to Australia, and then New Zealand will be disease-free. I bet Don Brash is killing himself that he did not think of that first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut he and Simon Power have also run up a fair-sized account with Uncle Sam. National has an account rendered to pay for nuclear policy and defence advice to Don Brash and Simon Power. New Zealanders will have to pay if National ever gets the chance to be in Government. We know that National would sell this country out. The price to pay is New Zealand\u2019s nuclear-free legislation and our ban on nuclear ships. However, this is a price we are not prepared to pay. New Zealand is not prepared, by any means, to pay the cheque National has made out to Uncle Sam. We will have this cheque stopped tomorrow, before either Uncle Sam or Don Brash get it. To be honest, this cheque will be stopped\u2014to borrow a very secret phrase\u2014before lunchtime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhilst we are on the subject of collecting, let me present a cheque to the police and transport Ministers on behalf of all New Zealand motorists who are using our roads today. This cheque is to pay for the doubling of the size of our police force, so that it catches real crime, and to send the traffic tax-gatherers back to the Land Transport Safety Authority for the rest of their days. We in New Zealand are sick of watching criminals getting away and winning, and going free, and crime paying, whilst the police hide in bushes with speed cameras. New Zealand First will change all that. After the next election, the police will wage war on criminals, not on little old ladies going to church. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe cannot let this occasion pass without acknowledging each and every New Zealand taxpayer. They work hard, they pay their taxes, and they hope they will get a return on their investment in the State. New Zealand people expect to have a decent health system, a decent education system, a welfare system if things go wrong, a roading system that can carry some cars, and a rail system that functions. New Zealand taxpayers give the New Zealand Government billions of dollars, and we say it is time they got something back. So here is a cheque for one trillion dollars for the long-suffering, hard-working New Zealand taxpayer. Unfortunately, there are parties in Parliament that have no intention of giving the taxpayer a fair go, and they still are in the majority, so I am going to cut up this cheque I am holding. That is the way it is, so bad luck to the ordinary taxpayers! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere are some in Parliament who believe that the needs of the rich and powerful are more important than the needs of ordinary people. We say to the elderly people of New Zealand, to New Zealanders who are anxious about their incomes and disturbed about the standard of their health care, who are fretting for their safety in their own homes and are concerned about their security, hang on, because help is on its way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe say to the students who have left, and are leaving, our universities with debts three times their age, with more debt than their parents have\u2014parents who have jobs, while they are without a job\u2014hang on, because help is on its way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe say to the hard-working families\u2014families where a working spouse is no longer an option but compulsory, who are doing their best to bring up their children whilst they make ends meet, and who are now being forced even more to rely on welfare and Government handouts\u2014do not give up yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe say to the small-businessmen and women who pay their hard-earned taxes whilst coping with every type of unnecessary compliance cost, who carry all the risks and have to suffer the ignominy of having a group of pseudo-academics telling them they know best, do not throw in the towel. Help is on its way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe say to exporters\u2014the most critical part of our economy, the most vital people in this country, who look every day at their opponents abroad with envy at all the help they get from sympathetic Governments, while they get nothing\u2014do not stop competing, and do not feel that no one understands your plight. Hang on, because help is on its way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe say to the tens of thousands of M\u0101ori, those who are great citizens who work hard and contribute to this once-great nation, only to suffer the paternalism and the scorn of some within this House who treat them with pervasive unworthiness, to be strong\u2014kia kaha. Do not slip back now. Hang on, help is on its way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe say to every New Zealander who is a patriot, who still believes in New Zealand, despite all the evidence to the contrary, who is alarmed at the state of economic decline as we slide into the Third World\u2014and our per capita incomes prove it\u2014that sometimes it seems as though nothing can be done. But do not abandon all hope; do not abandon ambition. Hang on, because help is on its way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EFor in this Parliament there is a party that understands their hopes and dreams, and believes that New Zealanders and their former glory can be regained. Do not abandon the good fight, because at next year\u2019s election\u2014and every poll from hereon will prove it\u2014New Zealand First will become the next Government. That Government is committed to putting New Zealand and New Zealanders first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022 data-id=\u002211803f54e54646aca70efdbcb63ac969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211803f54e54646aca70efdbcb63ac969\u0022\u003EROD DONALD (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Green Party I would like to congratulate the Labour-Progressive Government on its Working for Families package. It is 5 years late, it does not go far enough, and it discriminates against some children because of the origin of their parents\u2019 income. But it is worthy of support, and it certainly defines the difference between Labour and National. The last major welfare reforming Budget was in 1991, when National cut the benefits of those who were already on the lowest incomes, and abolished the universal family benefit. Today\u2019s Budget goes some way, but not all the way, towards reversing those cuts and addressing the poverty they compounded. National and its sometimes ally, ACT, still have blind faith in the ability of the marketplace to meet everyone\u2019s needs. Of course that is nonsense. This package shows that Labour not only accepts that the State has a responsibility to look after its citizens but is finally taking serious action to do so. Although we are angry that past Budget surpluses have been built on the backs of kids living in poverty, and we would have liked more money to be used right now to end that indictment, we are pleased to hear Dr Cullen\u2019s predictions that today\u2019s package will significantly reduce child poverty, and we hope it will prove to be so. This is definitely a Budget for families, and we applaud that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EIt is also good news that there are measures in the Budget that will make the transition from a benefit to paid employment easier. A likely consequence of those initiatives is that the labour participation rate will increase, which, ironically, undermines one of Michael Cullen\u2019s arguments in favour of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund\u2014that is, that there will not be enough future workers to support us when we retire. I accept the Government\u2019s assurances that no one will be worse off as a result of these reforms, despite the base rate of some benefits actually dropping. What we are concerned about is that beneficiaries without children will hardly be better off. Ever since National slashed the benefits 13 years ago, beneficiaries have been struggling, and they all deserve at least an extra $20 a week each. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EWe are also concerned that the in-work payments obviously discriminate against the children of families whose parents rely on a benefit, whether it is the domestic purposes benefit, the unemployment benefit, superannuation, or the student allowance. We understand the intention of the payment, which recognises that going to work involves extra costs such as transport and clothing, but we echo the concerns of the Child Poverty Action Group, which urged the Government not to punish children because their parents were getting State support. The Government has partially recognised that discrimination, by extending the in-work payment entitlement to those on accident compensation. Yet it has not extended the payment to parents in full-time study, even though they face equivalent extra costs to those in the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EI would particularly like to congratulate the Government on ending the ridiculous situation whereby as soon as beneficiaries started jobs, their accommodation supplement was cut. That was an extraordinary disincentive to make the transition to employment, and the new situation will be welcomed by those who receive an accommodation benefit. But it leaves a big question mark over why the Government has not changed the abatement regime for those beneficiaries who are not getting an accommodation allowance. Being able to earn only $80 a week before one\u2019s benefit starts to be cut is no incentive to get a job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EThree important initiatives are missing from today\u2019s family package. The first is a universal child benefit, which should be paid to every primary caregiver regardless of family income. A universal child benefit is still needed in New Zealand, despite the increases in family support announced today. Unless everyone gets a universal benefit, we are concerned that not all families will get what they are entitled to under family support, because they are not aware they are eligible, and, more important, that some families will get more than they are entitled to, because they have underestimated their incomes, and will then be faced with an unaffordable debt at the end of the tax year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E There is also good and bad news for students in this Budget. I would like to acknowledge that 43,000 students will be better off as a result of the parental income threshold being increased. On the other hand, the Government is taking the extraordinary step of axing the accommodation allowance for married students under the age of 25. Are they now expected to get divorced and go back to living with their parents? If the Government is serious about investing in people, and if it wants young New Zealanders to be committed to our country rather than to take their talents and energy off shore, it should make the student allowance universal. Instead, it is forcing students into debt\u2014a debt that has now reached $7 billion, and has more than doubled since Labour came into office. What is more, as a result of the Future Directions package students will have to borrow more, because it will be harder for them to get any work when they are not studying, as more beneficiaries will now have a greater incentive to enter the workforce. For that reason alone, this Budget should have included a universal student allowance. At the same time that the Government is sending a signal that it is worth going to work, it should be sending a signal that it is worth getting a tertiary education or training. We should be telling young New Zealanders that we value them, that we want them to contribute to society, and that we will support them during their studies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EThere is no such thing as a free lunch; the question is whether students pay now or pay later. The Green philosophy is that we are all better off if we know that our society will support us when we are young, old, or sick, and that in turn we are expected to contribute to the community chest when we are well and working. We are concerned not just about the plight of individual students. We are concerned about the impact that student debt is having on the whole economy and on our society. Young couples with student debt are putting off buying their first homes, because they cannot bridge the deposit gap and meet mortgage repayments. They are also putting off having children, because they feel they cannot afford to. That is a ticking bomb that will explode when those couples retire. They will still be paying off their mortgages or trying to pay market rent out of their New Zealand superannuation, but they will have no private savings to back them up. In some cases, they will actually still be paying off their student debt, as well. Meanwhile, there will be fewer of the new workers Dr Cullen needs to pay taxes, because those families have delayed having children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E While we support the family package, the question needs to be asked: is it the best long-term way to ensure families have enough to live on? I said at the outset that the State has a responsibility to look after its citizens. I also maintain that employers have a moral responsibility to pay their staff a living wage. Even before today\u2019s package, the Government was paying over $750 million in the form of family support, tax credits, subsidies, grants, and allowances to people in the workforce. Today\u2019s package increases that level of support considerably. There is a strong argument that that is corporate welfare, because it subsidises employers who pay their staff less than it costs to bring up a family in decency. That is why the Government should be lifting the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour and taking the lead on the matter of pay equity, by implementing it in the public service\u2014starting with nurses, right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EI can understand why some business people would oppose that, when they face increasing competition from sweatshop imports. It is simply not fair that the Government on the one hand increases the minimum wage, introduces 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave, and sets good health and safety standards and environmental conditions for New Zealand businesses and their staff, and on the other hand forces those businesses to compete with importers who can buy goods that are made in appalling conditions by sweatshop workers. More and more companies are simply giving up. Yesterday\u2019s announcement by Sunbeam that it is closing its electric blanket factory in Palmerston North, with the loss of 122 jobs, is yet another example of a company shutting its New Zealand manufacturing base and shifting production to China. Many more will follow, if the Labour Government succeeds in its attempt to negotiate free-trade agreements with Thailand and China, and forces through its unilateral tariff cuts. Its making work pay strategy will also fall flat if the only jobs available for beneficiaries are those working at the checkout or waiting on tables, because our manufacturers have disappeared off shore. Despite those concerns, the Green Party will be supporting the future directions legislation when it is introduced under urgency later this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E We are less impressed with other aspects of the Budget, and we remain fundamentally opposed to the Government\u2019s policy of allowing the commercial release of genetically engineered crops in New Zealand. Therefore I move, That the amendment to the amendment be amended by omitting all the words after the word \u201Chas\u201D and inserting the following: \u201Cno confidence in the Labour led minority Government because, despite there being some positive initiatives in the budget, its continued failure to take adequate measures to protect New Zealand from the release of genetically engineered organisms exposes our health, our environment, and our economy to significant and quite unnecessary risks.\u201D Keeping New Zealand GE free is as fundamental to the Green Party as keeping our country nuclear-free. The Labour Government of the 1980s was propelled into legislating against nuclear weapons and nuclear power by public opposition to their use. My greatest disappointment in this Labour Government is that it has refused to listen to overwhelming public opposition, including opposition from its own supporters, to genetic engineering. Despite Labour\u2019s intransigence, we remain optimistic that New Zealand will stay GE free. There is no sign of any company being foolish enough to apply to commercially release a crop here, and the GE industry is in worldwide retreat because nobody willingly wants to buy its products. Monsanto\u2019s decision to shelve its GE wheat marks the beginning of the end for GE food crops. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EGenetically engineered organisms are only one of the threats facing our economy, our society, and our environment. Today\u2019s Budget does little to prepare New Zealand for many of the predictable and not-so-predictable challenges ahead. The Day After Tomorrow may only be a film, but the environmental backlash it portrays is very real. Man-made climate change has already been held responsible for the growing number of extreme weather events. To its credit, the Labour Government has acknowledged the need to tackle that global problem, by signing up to the Kyoto Protocol. On Tuesday Dr Cullen said in the House that it was very important for members to address the issue of climate change, because it may well have an impact on the economy. Despite increasing evidence that that is the case, today\u2019s Budget does little to either future-proof the economy or improve the way we treat the environment. In fact, some policies, such as making our economy more dependent on exports, make us more vulnerable, rather than more self-reliant. Only the ACT party rejects the reality of climate change. That issue is too serious to wait until the biggest offender, the United States of America, takes off its blinkers and commits to reducing its use of fossil fuels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EThe other reality is that fossil fuels, by their very nature, are finite. New Zealand knows that very well, as we face up to the M\u0101ui gasfield running out 70 years before it should have run out, because the Government at the time squandered that precious resource. It is not just environmentalists who are sounding warnings. The chief executives of the big oil companies have made it clear that the world demand for oil is about to exceed supply. Yes, there is still a lot of oil in the ground, but we are consuming four barrels for every one that is discovered. Soon we will not be pumping it out of the ground fast enough to fill our tanks. The rapidly expanding Chinese economy is speeding up that depletion. As we import more and more goods from China, it is using more and more oil in manufacturing, transport, and travel. The impact of an oil crisis in New Zealand will be dramatic. The latest trade figures, announced today, show that the cost of crude oil and petroleum imports is up 84 percent, compared with April 2003. We are on an unsustainable path of fossil fuel - dependent economic growth, and free trade is driving us faster towards the edge of the cliff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003ENew Zealand can, and should, change course before it is too late. The celebrated scientist Professor James Lovelock, one of the first researchers to sound the alarm about the threat from the greenhouse effect, said on National Radio yesterday that New Zealand could be the first place in the world \u2014after Iceland, that is\u2014to get all its energy from renewable sources. The Green Party and its predecessor, the Values Party, have been pushing the message of energy efficiency and renewable energy for over 30 years, and we will keep pushing it until those in power listen, or until we have the power to make the necessary changes. This Budget was an important opportunity to protect New Zealanders from sharply rising energy costs by investing in demand management, solar power, and wind power. The arguments for investing in sustainable energy now, in order to insure us against a bleak future, are compelling. Last year\u2019s dry winter and this year\u2019s South Island transmission shambles are warnings of what lies ahead, which is why the Greens are disappointed that the Government has not taken heed of those warnings by seriously investing more on energy security in this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EOf course, it is good news that there is an extra $2.6 million to assist low-income families to make their homes more energy efficient, and $200,000 to encourage greater use of solar water heating. But those amounts are so pathetic that I am sure the Minister is embarrassed to claim them as victories for sustainability. They pale into insignificance against the $1.2 billion that Meridian Energy was planning to spend on its destructive Project Aqua scheme. What is needed instead is for the Government to take a lead, by immediately calling for tenders to install solar water heating in all Government buildings where it is cost-effective to do so. A 5-year programme to put solar panels into State houses, hospitals, prisons, schools, and office buildings would not only reduce energy demand but save the Government money. Free solar hot water would also cut the power bills for State house tenants. While we obviously support the Working for Families package, it is an end-of-pipe solution to the problem of income inadequacy, which will only get bigger as power prices inevitably rise. A more creative solution would be to help people to reduce their energy costs. The scaling-up of the manufacturing and installation industries resulting from such an initiative would bring down the price of solar heaters for private homeowners and landlords. The Government could also support \u201Csolar mortgages\u201D, to enable homeowners and private tenants, as well as the whole country, to get the benefits of upfront energy savings while paying off the capital cost from those savings. Exactly the same approach could be taken to insulating homes, so that they are warm, dry, and healthy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EThe Government has also missed the opportunity to seriously invest in sustainable transport infrastructure in the Budget. We acknowledge and support the Government buy-back of the rail track, and the commitment to spend $200 million on fixing the mess caused by the private operators, and we are obviously very pleased to have jointly developed, and to be now implementing, the New Zealand Transport Strategy with the Government. But what we want now is an integrated and a safe, responsive, and sustainable land transport system, and New Zealand - owned and operated coastal shipping services. What we do not need is to pave paradise and put up a parking lot. The National Party\u2019s solution to New Zealand\u2019s present and future transport problems seems to be to build more motorways, and to create more congestion. The Greens hate traffic jams. We hate people being stuck in cars when they would rather be at work, at school, or at home. We want to ensure that businesses can get goods from one end of the country to the other efficiently, and in particular we want to solve Auckland\u2019s traffic gridlock. National\u2019s vision for Auckland\u2019s transport is simply a repeat of the 50-year-old motorway madness that created the present problems. It would be an economic suicide note for Auckland at a time of worsening climate change, oil depletion, and rising concern about air quality. National has not noticed this, but the rest of the world has realised that more roads means more cars, more pollution, and more congestion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EInstead, New Zealand needs first-class public transport services in the cities and throughout the country, and we need a first-class rail freight service in order to get heavy freight off the roads and back on the track. We therefore call on the Government to make extra capital available to fix buckled rail tracks faster than it is planning to do, to expand Wellington\u2019s commuter rail, for example, by double-tracking where it is needed and electrifying the track north of Paraparaumu, and to commit to stage 2 and beyond of Auckland\u2019s commuter rail network. Transfund New Zealand should also be pushed to fund the rail projects, such as spur lines and freight transfer stations, that are waiting on its books. We know that the alternatives to roading scheme has $31 million in that fund, but it is still not being spent. We welcome that money, and we welcome the extra $22 million for passenger transport, but we urge the Government to stop Transfund from dragging the chain on rail, and to give Transfund a clear message that it is time to act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EDr Cullen will ask where the money is to come from for that. He will not be surprised to hear me answer that first up, it should come from his beloved New Zealand Superannuation Fund. I know he has been crowing that the fund has done well in the last quarter, but I remind him that the net market values of the international equity investments of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund were still worth $31 million less at the end of March than they were when they were first invested in October 2001. In other words, gambling our retirement on the international sharemarket is a risk, and the more that is gambled, the bigger is the risk. What is the use of owning shares in companies like Enron and WorldCom when our motorways are gridlocked, our trains do not run on time, and the lights go out at night? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EDoes this Budget prepare New Zealand for the day after tomorrow? No, it does not. The Government needs to kick its fixation with economic growth, and instead to focus on sustainability, self-reliance, and the quality of life. Even Dr Cullen acknowledges that New Zealanders rightly believe that success is defined as much by their quality of life, a better environment, and more effective health and education services as it is by a narrowly defined economic performance. If he really believes that, why is there not a serious increase in funding for biodiversity in the conservation vote? Instead, total biodiversity funding has been cut in this Budget, at the very time when the Department of Conservation is struggling to fund its new Operation Ark programme for protecting threatened species. There is not a single new environmental initiative in the Budget. Dr Cullen may have rescued some of our children from poverty, but he has failed to provide them with a sustainable future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a301f8db23304e9db1fb91844d154f36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a301f8db23304e9db1fb91844d154f36\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E We in the ACT party urge Parliament to reject the Labour Government\u2019s Budget, and we do so because we believe that this Budget will come to be seen as a turning point where the New Zealand economy, instead of taking the upward road to economic prosperity and growth, turned away to a path of tax, spend, and bust. This Budget fails on a number of grounds. It is unfair. Socially, it traps New Zealanders into a low-growth, low-income, Third World future. Economically, it is unsound. The Budget is a return to the tax, spend, and bust policies of the Muldoon years, which eventually took this country to the edge of bankruptcy. The Budget will not make us a Third World nation immediately, but over time that will be the consequence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EThis is a tax Budget, not because of what it does but because of what it does not do. The Budget does not repeal any of the stealth taxes the Labour Government has imposed. The biggest were the two increases in fuel prices, but the most insidious tax is fiscal creep. The refusal of the Minister of Finance to change the taxation thresholds has meant that inflation has pushed people into higher and higher taxation brackets, and the 39c in the dollar taxation bracket illustrates my point. The Labour Government was elected with the credit card promise. That is the one where Helen Clark\u2014with her digitally perfect teeth\u2014stated: \u201CNo rise in income tax for \u2026 95 percent of taxpayers \u2026\u201D. That is the Labour Government\u2019s taxation pledge. This year 20 percent of all full-time workers will pay the 39c in the dollar taxation rate. In the year Labour came into power, the total raised from personal income tax was $15.8 billion. This year\u2019s Budget plans to raise $21.25 billion. That is the biggest increase in taxation in New Zealand\u2019s history; it is an increase in income tax of $5 billion, or one-third. Taxation from all sources has also risen, thanks to the stealth taxes, by a third. That is an extra $11 billion in taxation\u2014an increase from $33 billion a year to $44 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Finance himself boasts that this is a spending Budget\u2014tax and spend. According to Statistics New Zealand, there are 540,000 families in New Zealand with dependants. Around 150,000 of those families are benefit-led families. That leaves 400,000 working families. The Budget is unfair because, although eventually 300,000 families will benefit, only 150,000 of them are working families. One does not have to be an accountant to work out that the majority of working families in New Zealand\u2014some 250,000 working families\u2014will get nothing from this Budget. Most households have no dependent children, so they are just bystanders in this Budget. Their only role is to pay Labour\u2019s taxes, so that the Government can bribe the electorate at the coming election. There are around 1.5 million households in New Zealand; 1.2 million households will receive nothing from this Budget. That is simply unfair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EDr Cullen boasts in the Budget that: \u201CGreat care has been taken in assembling this package to identify any possible individual losers and to ensure there are none.\u201D Well, he cannot have looked very hard. A family on $60,000 a year with one child gets nothing. Treasury says that in this country, the average two-parent working family with two children earns $72,000 a year. Under this Budget, average New Zealand working families are the losers; they get nothing, and they get nothing next year. They have to wait for the following year, for the election of ACT into Government, to get a break. This Budget discriminates against hard work and enterprise. It is actually a welfare Budget\u2014welfare wins, taxpayers lose. Welfare wins because welfare beneficiaries will get an increase in April next year. Working families, for reasons not explained by the Labour Government, have to wait until April 2006\u2014it is a wait of 1 year if one is a social welfare beneficiary, but of 2 years if one is working, to get the new family tax credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EI predict that this Budget will have many unintended consequences on our society. The unintended consequence of the new family tax credits and accommodation supplement is\u2014as Green Party members themselves can work out\u2014that it subsidises employers. This measure will encourage employers to pay low wages. It will encourage people who are in work to keep on receiving low wages, because they will lose so much if they get a pay increase. The Labour Government is subsidising a low-wage economy. Another unintended consequence of this tax-and-spend Budget is that the Government is encouraging low-income families to have more children. The Budget discourages work, because the effect of increasing one\u2019s income is to lose very valuable subsidies. If people are poor, the way to increase their income is to have more children. Why is Labour being so socially irresponsible? The reason is simple: the Government\u2019s motivation is not Future Directions; it is future elections. Labour\u2019s own polling shows that the new M\u0101ori Party will devastate its electoral base. It is a fact that most M\u0101ori families will benefit substantially from this Budget, if only because the average number of dependants in M\u0101ori families is higher than in the average New Zealand family. But the average New Zealand family of European descent will receive nothing from this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EThe future for both M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori is not in welfare and dependency. It is in having the independence that comes from a strong economy. This Budget will do absolutely nothing to stop the alarming trend of large numbers of skilled New Zealanders migrating. We already know that this year 70 percent of the doctors graduating from Otago University will leave New Zealand. This Budget will encourage that trend. Economically, the Budget is unsound. It will not encourage investment, growth, or jobs. Treasury\u2019s own forecast of the effect of this Budget is that future growth will slow from today\u2019s 2.8 percent rate to just 1.6 percent next year, and then to 1.57 percent in the year following. That is the Government\u2019s own forecast. Then we have Dr Cullen saying that there is no evidence that taxation cuts promote prosperity. He can produce no research to support that assertion. When Dr Cullen was out wooing business, he said\u2014and he is on record as saying\u2014he would lower the taxation rates when \u201Cfiscal conditions permit\u201D. Well, we have a $6 billion surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EDr Cullen is wrong to say that taxation cuts do not work, by claiming that when the top personal tax rate was reduced from 66c in the dollar to 33c in the dollar it did not produce an overnight economic boom. The fact is that that cut did work. Despite making the move from being one of the most regulated nations in the OECD\u2014from a system of massive Government subsidies\u2014the New Zealand economy bounced back. Dr Cullen was a junior finance Minister in the then Labour Government, and I am sure he was as astonished as the rest of us when we discovered that we were collecting as much income tax from the 33c in the dollar rate as we had been collecting from the 66c in the dollar rate. That is why Roger Douglas recommended the income tax rate be lowered to 24c in the dollar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E I ask whether Treasury agrees with Dr Cullen\u2019s analysis of the effect of taxation cuts on the New Zealand economy over the last 20 years. We know that Treasury does not. On 22 April of this year, the Secretary to the Treasury, John Whitehead, released a paper titled New Zealand Economic Growth: An Analysis of Performance and Policy. While it is somewhat dry, I recommend that MPs read that document. Treasury, in that report, states: \u201CSince the early 1990s, New Zealand\u0027s average per capita GDP growth has increased relative to the OECD mean.\u201D So much for the claims about the failure of the policies of the 1990s! Treasury puts New Zealand\u0027s superior economic growth down to a range of policies, including such things as labour market reform, but it also includes the taxation cuts. With regard to taxation, the report states: \u201CA foundational principle for a taxation system that seeks to support economic growth is that it should be \u2018broad based - low rate\u2019\u201D. Paragraph 175 of that report states: \u201C\u2026 moving to a flat tax rate for both personal and corporate tax rates is likely to have the greatest impact on economic growth\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EThat is precisely the position that the ACT party has been advocating for more than a decade now. The fastest and biggest impact on growth is a low, flat rate of taxation. The McLeod Tax Review was set up by Dr Cullen, who handpicked its members and wrote the terms of reference. It had the best experts the Government could find in New Zealand and overseas. What did the McLeod report state? Did it agree with any of Dr Cullen\u2019s statements? No, it did not. It concluded that a low, flat rate of taxation was the best option for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f98ca7408517406294efaf02fe2da4f9\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: They had been smoking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d4aedfbf4104f10bad10fcee4050fcb\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, the member should not have paid them $2 million for the report. In this Parliament, the ACT party has always been the voice for sound economics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EA $6 billion surplus represents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to put New Zealand on to a growth path towards becoming one of the most prosperous nations on earth. That is the opportunity that Dr Cullen has today\u2014not because of any actions he has taken, but because of the actions of Governments and New Zealanders over the last 20 years that have put this country into a position where the Minister of Finance now actually has an opportunity to take a new direction and path for New Zealand. And what does he choose? He decides to go back to the failed policies of tax and spend of the past. Let us just consider this. Answers to written questions from Dr Cullen have stated that the cost of going to a flat rate of taxation of just 20c in the dollar, for both companies and individuals, would be $5.45 billion a year. That is $500 million less than the surplus, and it is a figure that assumes no change in economic activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EAs Government members often like to point out, I am a director of a number of companies. We directors look at investment opportunities, and we look at the rate of return after tax, taking into account the risks that are involved in any new project. I am looking at an export opportunity at the moment that, in the business plan, would pay for the total investment in 3 years. Yet we are very reluctant to give it the green light, because there are always risks. A 20c in the dollar flat taxation rate would mean that that project would pay for itself in 2 years, and we would certainly give it the green light. There are thousands of projects like that sitting on the boardroom tables of New Zealand\u2014or, more accurately, sitting on the kitchen tables of New Zealand, because that is where most business decisions are made. At a 20c in the dollar taxation rate, thousands of projects would get the green light. Just as important, it would encourage New Zealand entrepreneurs who have been driven overseas by a high taxation rate to return. In its rich list, the National Business Review has to include New Zealanders who are overseas, because there are just not enough rich New Zealanders left in this country. I say to the socialists on the Government benches opposite me that those who returned would then spend their GST and invest in this country, and that would have a huge impact on New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EWe could implement a 20c in the dollar flat rate of taxation without making any cuts to any Government expenditure, and we could do that tomorrow. None of those figures take into account the dynamic effects of doing that. Our own New Zealand experience is that cutting the top rate of income tax from 66c in the dollar to 33c in the dollar resulted in more income tax being paid within 3 years. I tell this House that if the top rate of personal tax was reduced from 39c in the dollar to 20c in the dollar, and if the company rate of tax was also reduced to 20c in the dollar, within 3 years we would be receiving the same taxation revenue that we get today. However, New Zealand would be a very different country and a much more prosperous nation than it is currently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EThe real security for New Zealand families comes not from tax, spend, and bust Budgets. It comes from the prosperity, hard work, and enterprise of our people. New Zealand did not need a tax-and-spend Budget. New Zealand does not need more welfare. We certainly do not need a \u201Cwelfare wins, taxpayer loses\u201D Budget. This Budget is not a Future Directions package. We all know that this Budget is a future elections bribe package. A $6 billion surplus is a once-in-a-lifetime chance for a prosperity-creating taxation cut that would put New Zealand back into the First World, where we belong. That is why the ACT party will support the amendment moved by the National Party, and that is why we urge the Government\u2019s minority partners to turn down this Budget. Why do we not turn down the Budget and have an election? Let us find out whether New Zealanders want to spend the taxpayers\u2019 $6 billion surplus on yet more welfare, or whether the taxpayers of New Zealander want to see a prosperity-creating taxation cut. That is the challenge, and the ACT party is quite prepared to take it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee92d502d6b344598ce27fb82391aacb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee92d502d6b344598ce27fb82391aacb\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E When the Leader of the Opposition began his speech today and moved his motion of no confidence in the Government, he indicated that one of the reasons he did so was that\u2014and he said this several times\u2014for months the National Party had been advocating this position or that, and that for months the National Party had been concerned about the plight of middle-income earners, etc. I say to the Leader of the Opposition that for years I have been concerned about the plight of middle-income earners. For years I have made speeches in this House, often as a lone voice, about the plight of middle-income earners, and for years I have urged successive Governments to provide a better deal for middle New Zealand. Now here is a Budget that starts the process of delivering that better deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe point I begin on is this: the divide that has been drawn between the parties today is not so much one on whether the resource is there to pay for this better deal, but on the way the better deal should be delivered. For too long middle New Zealand has been quiet, uncomplaining, and perhaps compliant, in terms of the way it has been dealt with by successive Governments. It is the group of people that pays all the taxes, but seldom gets any of the benefits. Now, after 20 years, those people are saying it is time they received a dividend. Where I think other parties are missing the point in this debate is that New Zealanders are not a dogmatic people. They are not a profoundly ideologically driven people, and they are getting just a little tired of seeing the debate about their future always being promoted in terms of this ideology or that ideology. What they are most interested in is where they fit into the equation. That is why I am delighted to see a Budget that, for the first time in a generation, puts the concerns of decent New Zealand families upfront. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIt has been a dramatic transformation over a relatively short period of time. Two years ago the Budget of the then Labour-Alliance Government did not mention the word \u201Cfamily\u201D once. Last year, 15 specific family initiatives were introduced\u2014a number as a result of the negotiations between the Government and United Future. This year, just 2 short years later, we have the most dramatic family-friendly Budget in a generation. I think that middle New Zealand, and those families earning a combined income of up to around $80,000 a year, who will all benefit in some shape or form from this Budget, will not be as interested in the arcane arguments about whether it is delivered through the taxation system, or any other system, as they will be in the fact that at last they will get a dividend for the hard work of economic reform under successive Governments in the last 20 years. That is what the debate should be all about. Around the world today economic and political debate is shifting away from the abstract, and moving much more towards how the gains that are being produced benefit societies and communities. Perhaps it is a result of September 11, but certainly there is a much greater recognition abroad today that the purpose of Government and society, and of all those abstract terms like \u201Ceconomic growth\u201D, \u201Cperformance\u201D, \u201Cemployment\u201D, or whatever term is used, is to create better conditions for families to get about their business. That is the core point of this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI do not necessarily think the Government has got it absolutely right, in terms of the way this assistance will be delivered. I think there are some issues regarding sequencing and timing, but frankly, they are secondary to the fundamental point of doing something positive for New Zealand. There are about 480,000 families in this country with dependants. Over the course of the programme that this Budget introduces, just over 300,000 of those 400,000-odd families will benefit. That is a hugely significant part of social progress. I think it is mean-spirited to be arguing about the mechanisms, when families out there today will be looking bluntly at the dollars and what they mean to them. Some issues here need to be taken further. But as I said, I am pleased to see the attack made on dealing with the circumstances of middle New Zealand families, in particular. I am delighted that as a result of the discussions we were able to have with Dr Cullen, Mr Maharey, and other Ministers, the package is perhaps a little broader in its intent than was first intended. That is good and positive. I am also pleased to see some movement in some other areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIt is significant that an initiative promoted by Gordon Copeland last year, which received some limited recognition in last year\u2019s Budget, has been picked up to a much greater extent in this year\u2019s Budget. It is the basic and sensible point of indexing a lot of the payment rates to movements in the rate of inflation. Part of the difficulty that we have experienced for so long with abatement rates on all the various forms of payments that have been made has been that the gap between their introduction and their review has been years. Consequently, it often becomes too costly to keep up with progress. I am rapt that Dr Cullen and the Government have now agreed to index those payments. That will make matters significantly easier, not just for Governments in the future but also for those who benefit from those forms of assistance. We see a significant example of that in the big problem the Government still has with tertiary education and student loans, in particular. It is good to see that the threshold at the top end of about $50,000 has been raised to $62,000, in terms of family income, before the under-25 parental income test threshold applies, but the problem is that that cures about 10 years of no movement. I sincerely hope we will not see another 10 years go by before that aspect is addressed again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThere was a cryptic line in the Budget that we ought to be aware of. Dr Cullen made reference to the fact that there would need to be some consequential changes to the provisions of the Human Rights Act. I think that is a matter of grave concern and is one area where the Government may need to think again about the impact of its policies. I say that because that reference related to the fact that under the Human Rights Act married students without dependants under the age of 25, who are currently exempt from the parental income test, now apparently ought to be included under that test. We will have the absurd situation whereby a couple of married students, who may well have been married at 18 and at the age of 24 are living their own separate lives, will still be subject to a parental income test as to whether they can get student allowances, because of the provisions of the Human Rights Act. That is absurd, and I give notice that that matter will need to be reviewed before we go very much further down the track. There are other issues that need to be dealt with in that area. Part of the problem that could be addressed is the 25-year-old age limit itself. I would have liked to see some movement in bringing down that threshold age, because that would have had a significant impact, as well. That is work to be done in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other initiatives contained in the Budget that I am very, very pleased to see. I say that from the focus of wanting to see a Budget that makes New Zealand a better place for our families and for those who are raising children. We know of the stresses and the pressures that our young people face today, and in that context the move to increase the Social Workers in Schools programme is a good one. It is perhaps a commentary on the state of our society that we need to even contemplate such initiatives, but I am delighted to see that move is being extended. I know my colleague Judy Turner, who pushed for that, will be equally delighted. I know, too, that she will be pleased to see the Government has made significant movements in terms of increased funding for mental health support, with a $200 million increase over the next 4 years. My colleague Marc Alexander will perhaps rest a little easier at night, and maybe leave Phil Goff alone just temporarily, with the increase of $4.4 million for restorative justice and the additional $1.5 million for victims\u2019 rights, but I suspect that will only embolden him to try for more gain in that area for the victims of crime in the future. Another initiative that we spoke of last year, which we are delighted to see carried through in this year\u2019s Budget, is the continued increase in the schools operations grant, and we are particularly delighted to see the increase in support to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, in terms of its administration of the examination system. All those measures contribute to making the system that affects a number of our children and our families more user friendly, more positive, and more geared towards their needs. In a period where we have gone through a long stage where Budgets were often quite abstract from the reality of most people, and the moves that were introduced seemed to be at such a high level that for most people they had no immediate impact, the sorts of basic measures that this Budget, building on last year\u2019s Budget, introduces are positive, and they will be welcomed by many, many New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIt would be wrong to conclude that this Budget is an end in itself. From listening to the debate I think there seems to be a feeling that the Government has somehow missed an opportunity, as if this is the only opportunity that will exist for any Government to make significant social change. I believe that is a wrong and false attitude, and it is perhaps symptomatic of the thinking that has led us to see a series of stop-start measures over the last 20 years or so. One of the issues we do need to consider, in the light of the current debate about the most effective way of assisting our families, is whether our existing taxation system delivers to them in the most fair and equitable way. United Future has long argued, and will continue to argue, for the concept of income splitting for taxation purposes. We have argued for income splitting because it will allow people a fairer slice of the action, if one likes, by recognising the concept of household income. Ironically, of course, we used to recognise household income as the basis of our income tax system. We only moved away from it in 1957, not for any sound policy reason but because the PAYE system was introduced and there would have been difficulties in administering source deductions because of differing incomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe issue of income splitting is still very much on the agenda, and it also recognises a key element as far as we are concerned: that people ought to have choice about their circumstances and how they apply them. I believe that is one of the areas that perhaps this Budget is a little light on, but it does not mean that the issue cannot be recognised for consideration in the future. The issue is really about recognising the equal role both parents have in the construction and rearing of the family unit, and in the running of a household. Particularly for the parent or partner who chooses to stay at home and therefore loses the ability to earn income, income splitting is a way of recognising that contribution much more powerfully. It is very interesting to note, in the context of the current debate that a certain article in the Sunday Star-Times a couple of weeks or so ago has engendered, how many people have raised, right up until this morning\u2019s Morning Report, the notion of income splitting as being the way ahead and the way we ought to proceed. That is a matter that the Families Commission, which will be opening its doors in just a few short weeks, will want to put high up on its agenda and start to do some good, sound policy work on, and to make some recommendations on to the Government in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWhere we are today, and where this Budget is so important and so valuable, is that we have shifted the debate\u2014and I take particular delight in the fact that we have had influence with the Government in doing that\u2014and we are now unashamed as a country, it seems, to focus on what is good for New Zealand families. We used to be a little embarrassed about doing that because our circumstances were all different, and we therefore thought that perhaps to talk about my circumstances, as opposed to the next person\u2019s circumstances, might be a little unfair or a little inappropriate. We have moved away from that, and that is good. We are now in a position where all the issues can be debated thoroughly, openly, and fully. I acknowledge the work that the Progressive party leader has done in terms of the drug and youth suicide funding that is in this Budget. We thoroughly support that, again because it is part of the much more upfront recognition of those issues and how they can be dealt with. We do not want to see this Budget lead just to a self-centred argument about how much money has gone into my pocket as opposed to the next person\u2019s pocket, and so on, and so forth. We do not want to see the sort of mean-spiritedness that seems to bedevil that type of debate. We want to see a much more fundamental assessment about how Governments in the future use their resources, garner their policies, if one likes, and work to achieve economic growth, in the interests of prospering this society and its families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI want to conclude by drawing an analogy to the Irish argument, which many people still like to laud as being a great example of a way to move forward. What the Irish have done is particular to their own circumstances, but the point of comparison for us is this. The Irish have actually set some national objectives that are not too ambitious. But in terms of Ireland being a great place to raise a family, the Irish have outlined the sorts of policies that they need to achieve that, and have then worked through to the economic policies they need in order to achieve the growth required to fund the social programmes. It is a seamless approach. This Budget lays the groundwork for that type of approach in New Zealand. There is still a way to go. We want to work with the Labour-led Government in the lead-up to next year\u2019s Budget, to start to take this focus one step further. As I said at the beginning, this Budget is a dividend for low to middle income families, and for middle New Zealand in particular, for over 20 years of hard work. I want to see the gains that are made for those families in this Budget become a threshold for the future that we can build on. I want us to build a more constructive society where we can truly hold our heads high and say we have done what we have done for the benefit of all New Zealand families, and all New Zealand families will be better off economically and socially as a consequence of those moves. If the Budget achieves those objectives, then this will have been a watershed in our social, economic, and family development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d06d7f91170340d0ab20b37ac8e7c381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d06d7f91170340d0ab20b37ac8e7c381\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I congratulate Dr Michael Cullen on this, his fifth Budget. The financial management of the two Governments in which I have had the privilege to serve with Dr Cullen has worked towards, and resulted in, unemployment falling to the lowest level in New Zealand in 16 years\u20144.3 percent. I am very proud of that figure. In the 1990s the level of unemployment never dropped below 6 percent. When Don Brash was the Reserve Bank governor, he used to predict in his forecasts that the unemployment rate of around 7 percent would stretch out forever. He seemed to accept that level of human trauma with equanimity. The number of people receiving the unemployment benefit has more than halved since this Government came to office, and 193,000 more New Zealanders now have paid jobs than in 1999. When I came into Government I said that my top priority was jobs, and that remains my top priority today. I also have to congratulate Michael Cullen on producing Budgets that have enabled that outcome to take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThis year\u2019s Budget ensures that a better income for families in need is the top priority for assistance. People have said: \u201CWhy wasn\u2019t it done earlier?\u201D, and I want to deal with that matter. The truth is that when one is increasing the income of the most needy families in New Zealand by up to $1.2 billion or $1.3 billion, that money has to go into the baselines of income support; otherwise, one is giving with one hand one year and taking away the next. So one had better make sure it is sustainable. It is only the performance of the New Zealand economy, and what this Government\u2019s policies have done for it, that enables the kind of certainty that this income support package indicates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe only uncertainty is whether the National Party, if ever elected, would remove it. I think it is important for National members to say something about that. Mr Brash indicated when he started that he supported some of these policies, but he ended up looking as though he did not support them at all. The question is whether the National Party is going to go on the road between now and the next election and say it will abandon these policies. If National members do not say that, then what on earth have they been saying up until now? I cannot understand, and I would like to be made aware by subsequent National Party speakers, what its position is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThis year\u2019s Budget ensures that a better income for families in need is the top priority for this Government. The Progressive Party is committed to ensuring that no one lives in poverty. We are proud to support these initiatives, which are of course designed to reduce hardship for the least affluent families, and particularly for New Zealand children, far too many of whom have been living in an environment of poverty for too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI emphasise that the value of this Budget in transforming the industrial base of the New Zealand economy is part and parcel of the ability of this Government to now make these commitments, because this Budget takes, as its predecessors have, a comprehensive approach to economic development. It is focused on strengthening and deepening New Zealand\u2019s connections to the world economy. In other words, it helps us do a better job in selling New Zealand and its production to the rest of the world. It moves us into high-value, high-skilled production that customers overseas want to buy. That is the only way we are going to ensure prosperity for all New Zealanders into the future. There is $500 million over 4 years in this Budget to help unleash New Zealanders\u2019 creativity and talent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI do not think the House fully understands the importance of the economic development work that this Government is doing and has done. Our broad approach is not limited to the economic development portfolio; it goes across the board, including commerce, small business, finance, education, science and technology, immigration, education, and so on. The National Party spokesperson on finance calls it corporate welfare, so, presumably, he will advocate to get rid of all of that. I look forward to the National Party telling exporters that it will axe the $35 million provided in this Budget to help find New Zealand markets, and strategic partners for New Zealand businesses. Is National going to say that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b71c8e6b61743a3ad6b1f5ca85742ac\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Put your back into it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236141fde40c34c1fa6d9b0083974b6be\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I look forward to the National Party members putting their backs into telling New Zealand businesses that they will abandon policies for the improvement of business in New Zealand, and for our export community in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EAn example, of course, of the difference between what was done before and what is done now can be seen in the forestry and wood-processing industry and what happened when New Zealand Trade and Enterprise and myself, as the Minister for Economic Development, went to Europe. We identified Denmark\u2019s furniture-manufacturing industry as a partner in wood processing in New Zealand, and that led to significant investment by Zenia House in wood processing and furniture manufacturing of a high quality in New Zealand. The result of that commitment is going to be a very significant investment in jobs and high-value furniture manufacturing in regions in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI look forward to the National Party telling industry it would cut those programmes that are aimed at improving the capabilities of our managers, for example. When the Information and Communications Technology Sector Task Force, which the Government initiated last year, looked at the future of that industry, it determined that it wanted a hundred companies to grow into a hundred million-dollar-a-year companies. The task force identified that one of the biggest obstacles to doing that was the shortage of managers capable of taking a company to that level. So the Government in this Budget is playing its part by providing a significant increase in investment to boost management capability. If the former bond and currency trader who is now the National Party\u2019s deputy spokesperson on finance thinks that is corporate welfare, then I invite him to tell industry that National will cut it. I would like to read the speech he gives when he does that\u2014because we cannot cut the tax rate and increase the assistance we are giving to businesses in this country to grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe Government is investing in science and technology and in the education sector. We are supporting the hothouses of innovation and improving their links with the world, to help connectedness and New Zealand innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe performance of this Government in accelerating the economy proves that every economic idea that National and ACT stand for is wrong. The economy has withstood the tech-wreck, the United States recession, severe acute respiratory syndrome, a drought, a flood, commodity reversals, and countless more. Those events used to be the kind of excuse the National Party Government used for not being able to do anything about the future of the New Zealand economy. Members will remember the Asian financial crisis, the drought, the BNZ issue, and all the other excuses it came up with to explain what was wrong with the New Zealand economy and why it could not possibly do anything to fix it. National members claim that it is just coincidence or luck that we have actually been able to fix the economy now. How was it that, in 9 years, they never got any coincidences or any luck? I cannot believe that we got so lucky, and they were so unlucky for so long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EMaybe there is another explanation for the poor economic performance then and the sound economic performance now\u2014that is, that they are over there and we are over here. I think that is a much more simple and plausible explanation than anything I heard from the National Party Government during its term of office. The economy is doing better because Michael Cullen did not blow his budget in the earlier years of this Government on tax cuts that we could not afford. We have improved New Zealand\u2019s economic performance so that we can now afford the social dividend to the families of New Zealand that they so richly deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EToday, even after all those floods and pestilences, the regional economy of New Zealand is defined as being sharp, focused, and growing\u2014in every single region. Even the Manawat\u016B, with its flood problem, has dropped only marginally, and, even then, it has still grown by 3.9 percent. How is that for: \u201COh, we had a flood. We can\u2019t do anything.\u201D? I mean\u2014really! We have to ask ourselves. At the Smart Business business development celebration in the Manawat\u016B this week, every speaker commented on how welcome it was that this Government partners industry and partners the region, and people said that without that assistance they would not be where they are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI think, fundamentally, it is about time we got some acknowledgment that the old ideas\u2014the ideas of Governments staying out of everything, not partnering businesses, regions, and families, and not being prepared to get involved in the community of New Zealand and be on its side\u2014have ended, and I congratulate Michael Cullen on that. I know that my colleagues are very proud, as I am, of this future-looking Budget and how well it will serve the interests of New Zealand and its people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc5e11bb17a04489a742fb64599b1dbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc5e11bb17a04489a742fb64599b1dbd\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6c1bb8598054d7896230ff2c44a5901\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022660d29122284470ba6257465fe06d052\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00222b9b73a584ca4443b542edeef0bdd6d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b9b73a584ca4443b542edeef0bdd6d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and passing of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, and any bills into which that bill may be divided. Urgency is moved in order that certainty can be provided for both the system changes that come into effect on 1 October and the fiscal consequences of the measures contained therein.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226eb7beca23fa42e8baa3c51f2bcc8187\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 26; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ddd39ef4fbad4931bdca5c02d41bf4d4\u0022\u003EFuture Directions (Working for Families) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ddd08ef33a944bcca3e0d85de379df46\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002215f2103b16554020a102edf9b730517c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215f2103b16554020a102edf9b730517c\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill be now read a first time. This bill contains the Working for Families package, the biggest change to New Zealand\u2019s social assistance system in over a decade. It is the culmination of research and planning. By 2007 it will invest $1.1 billion a year in around 290,000 New Zealand families. This bill is further evidence of this Government\u2019s commitment to improving the lives of low and middle income families with children. It provides more support to working families, will make people better off in work, and ensures that families have enough income for an adequate standard of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe bill increases the rates of family support substantially. Next year family support rates for the first child increase by $25 a week, and by $15 a week for other children. Two years later these rates will increase by a further $10. The orphans benefit, the unsupported child\u2019s benefit, and the foster care allowance rates also increase next year by $15 a week\u2014and as a quick aside can I say that I hope it is at least something for those grandparents who are raising children, and who have been raising this issue with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EFamily income assistance will have a simpler, more generous abatement system, letting working families keep more assistance for longer. Family tax credit will increase to ensure that families do not have less income when moving off benefits into full-time work. It will provide a higher guaranteed minimum level of income than currently\u2014up to $17 from the current $15, and those figures are net. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EA key factor contributing to inadequate family income has been a declining real value of family income assistance. This bill ensures that family support is regularly adjusted to maintain its worth for families. A new in-work payment for parents not on benefit will replace the child tax credit. The in-work payment is more generous than the child tax credit. It will be worth up to $60 a week for many families, and be worth even more for large families. Sole parents must work at least 20 hours a week, and couples at least 30 hours a week jointly, to qualify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe in-work payment will have wider eligibility than the current child tax credit, including people receiving New Zealand superannuation with dependent children, working the required hours, like many grandparents raising grandchildren. Families currently getting the child tax credit who are ineligible for the in-work payment will still get the child tax credit; but as family entitlements change, the child tax credit will gradually be phased out. The in-work payment will have the clarity and the work incentive effect that the child tax credit lacks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EHousing costs can be, and are, a major burden. To make housing more affordable this bill increases the accommodation supplement. It lets people keep more assistance, and updates accommodation supplement areas from three to four. Auckland will be divided into two areas, with a higher maximum rate for central and North Auckland. Other areas are grouped into areas with a higher maximum rate. For example, Nelson and Queenstown are now recognised as needing a higher accommodation supplement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThese changes will improve housing affordability for people on low and middle incomes living in locations where housing costs have risen sharply. Beneficiaries in work will keep their entire supplement, no longer losing up to $20 a week. The amount of housing costs low-income workers must pay before they get help will be reduced, and for low-income earners the level where their supplement begins to abate will be raised. These changes will help families and assist couples and single people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EWorking for Families makes quality childcare for low and middle income families more affordable. For many families the cost of childcare is a significant barrier to employment, yet eligibility rules have not changed since 1992, and the cost of childcare has outstripped annual adjustments in rates. Working for Families raises childcare rates and increases the income limits so that more families qualify. It aligns out-of-school care rates with those for preschool care, increasing them by a further 10 percent this October and a further 10 percent again in October 2005. This bill puts childcare assistance in legislation, recognising its importance to many families. Childcare coordinators will help families access childcare assistance and other assistance. Higher family support and accommodation supplement rates will help families who have difficulty meeting their essential costs. Changes to special benefit next year will reflect this, but no family will lose more special benefit than they gain in family support. In fact, absolutely no one will be financially disadvantaged as a result of Working for Families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EComplex rules in delivery systems work against parents moving off benefit into work. We need a simpler system that supports people into work. The changes in this bill form part of ongoing reform of the social assistance system. The child component of main benefits and student allowances will become part of the family support system. All support for children will be paid primarily through one payment\u2014family support. This makes the assistance readily transferable between benefit and work. The removal of the child component will coincide with family support increases early next year, providing a significant boost for families with children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EA temporary additional support benefit that is easier to administer and understand replaces the special benefit for people who are unable to meet essential costs from their regular income and resources. The invalids benefit rules also change. People receiving the invalids benefit will, with their case manager\u2019s agreement, be able to work 15 hours or more a week for up to 6 months to see whether they can sustain employment. They will not lose their benefit entitlement\u2014though, of course, their benefit might reduce depending on their earnings, and if they leave the benefit, but need to reapply later, they will not face a stand-down unless they have higher earnings, meaning that they can switch on and off work and back to the benefit without any penalty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe evidence speaks for itself. A couple with three children, living in Auckland on the North Shore earning $52,000 a year and paying a mortgage of $385 a week, will be about $170 better off in April 2007 than they are now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E A domestic purposes benefit recipient with two children, living in Christchurch, will be better off by about $36 a week. An equivalent sole parent working, earning $30,000 per year, will be $128 better off in April 2007 than now. The message is very clear: this Government wants to ensure that adequate income goes into households so that children have the kind of environment they need in which to grow up and flourish, and we want to ensure that work pays. At the heart of everything we are doing here is to advantage people as they move into the workplace, retain earnings, and get on with their lives. I cannot imagine anyone in this House wanting to oppose this bill, but I am looking forward to hearing the debate and alternatives put forward as people move smoothly towards what, I think, will be overwhelming support for what we are trying to achieve. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u00224d1a30ea233d4f47aba8bb7186461da2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d1a30ea233d4f47aba8bb7186461da2\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E One of the things I do agree with the Minister for Social Development and Employment about is that the evidence speaks for itself. So far the evidence is that the Government has got it wrong. [Interruption] Government members may laugh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec0d5a29fe9540479b317b3edd4f6c68\u0022\u003EGovernment Members\u003C/span\u003E: Say it again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208d73033d48a4e24ba563e6195841260\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: If Government members quieten down they might hear something. They might hear that the Minister has scuttled back up to his office and found that, in fact, he has got some of his figures wrong. In one of the \u201CWorking for Families\u201D sheets\u2014and this has kindly been confirmed by Mandy at the 0800 number that the Minister has kindly set up\u2014there is a scenario that is wrong and misleads New Zealanders into thinking they will get more from this Budget than they actually will. I suggest that the Minister should go back to his office and check his figures to see what other errors are there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThis legislation provides no vision for New Zealand. The only future direction signposted by this legislation is further welfare dependence and overtaxation of hard-working New Zealanders. Since when has making hard-working New Zealanders dependent on welfare constituted a grand vision for this country? Michael Cullen is happy to extend the tentacles of the welfare State into once-independent homes, but one of his predecessors, Michael Joseph Savage, will be shaking his head up there as we speak. He would be shocked at the idea that people who earn $80,000 a year are in a line for welfare support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EAnother former Labour Prime Minister, Peter Fraser, would also be appalled. He was concerned that some people thought the welfare system would provide them an armchair ride to prosperity. If one believes that, then Michael Cullen has not only reupholstered the chair, he has added a couple of cushions. The benefits of this Budget go to one in five households, the majority of which are supported by welfare. The remaining households\u20141.2 million of them\u2014will get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EExtending the welfare roles is no vision for this country. Making middle-income Kiwis more dependent on Government handouts is no vision, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders will see this Budget for what it is\u2014a cynical attempt to buy votes. It is a lolly scramble, but people will get their lollies in a few years\u2019 time. It is: \u201CVote for us next year and we will deliver the lollies.\u201D If this is not a lolly scramble about buying votes, then why did it take the Government 5 years to get as far as this? Thanks to the best economic conditions in a generation, this Government has enjoyed healthy surpluses for 4 years but it has not bothered to recognise the needs of people and to use those surpluses to meet them. Now we have the cynical multibillion-dollar handout, most of which will come into play next year, the year after, or the year after that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EYesterday Labour congratulated itself on increasing funds for hip and knee operations. That self-congratulation offered no consolation whatsoever for those New Zealanders who have been waiting in pain for such surgery over the last 5 years. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4683714debf45c4ab8bc9aa9123c57f\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is too much noise. There is just too much interjection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c615a70a05a943f3b1137362cf8fbd70\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: This Budget is a cruel hoax for hard-working New Zealand families. The money being handed back to them is the money they earned in the first place but lost due to overtaxation. I think that this Budget will backfire on the Government. New Zealanders can see through this cynical lolly scramble and see this Budget as a desperate attempt to claw back support and retain power. If it is not about buying a third term, then why have the spend-up now? Why did this not happen years ago? Government members have no answer to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThis Government patronises New Zealanders and expects them to be grateful. Why should middle-income New Zealanders be grateful for being made more dependent on the State and joining the ranks of many of those who are already trapped by the benefit system, which rather than empowering people, actually entraps them? Why should they be grateful for receiving their own money in the first place? People seldom feel good about receiving State handouts. They feel good about providing for themselves and their own families through their own work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIt is adding insult to injury to overtax people, then place them in a position of dependency in order to get their own money back. It is obscene. People feel good about being independent and providing for themselves and their families. New Zealanders do not want handouts. They want to keep their own money that they have earned. Marilynn from Waihi said that this morning on Breakfast. People want a fair deal. They recognise and accept that there will always be those in the community who need support and help, and they are happy to pay for that through their taxes. But they are not happy to have their hard-earned cash churned by a Government bent on creating larger numbers of dependent New Zealanders in order to meet some failed ideology\u2014some dream of controlling everybody\u2019s life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIt is a sad comment on this country that educated professional people with good jobs cannot get by. They cannot because they are overtaxed and they are continually required by the Government to carry a growing number of State-dependent New Zealanders. The burden continues to fall on hard-working Kiwis paying that top tax rate. Labour promised that 5 percent of New Zealanders would pay that top rate. It is now 12 percent of New Zealanders, and we are not talking about the wealthy or the elite. We are not talking about property moguls or millionaires. Many of those guys now pay their tax in other countries because they have left New Zealand. We are talking about teachers, policemen, and the other middle-income Kiwis who keep this country going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThis Budget is not about making New Zealand a place where our children can see a future. This Budget is not about growing New Zealand\u2019s economy or creating opportunities, it is about redistributing income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992b688e8e2e4704926393b1134ce0fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c66a2dda25254b908ac4731b6c12abb3\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Dr Cullen that I do not think a teacher on $55,000 is wealthy. I do not think a policeman earning $60,000 is wealthy, but Labour does. Labour thinks that that person is part of the elite and should be taxed accordingly. This Budget overtaxes the increasingly poor to give to the poorer. I say shame on the Labour Government for robbing growing numbers of hard-working New Zealanders of their independence\u2014of their ability to take care of themselves and their own families by their own efforts. Even that family in Waihi wants to retain a greater amount of the money they earn. They do not want to be dependent on the Government for just another welfare handout. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ESince his time in Opposition, Steve Maharey has talked about the universal benefit. Where is it? Michael Cullen talked about it in 1990. Where is it? Where are the changes? There is very little to crow about. There has been no talk today in any of the speeches about the rising number of people on sickness benefits and invalids benefits, which by Treasury figures will grow at an alarming rate by 2007-08. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E Labour, in its term in office, will be adding nearly 32,000 New Zealanders to the invalids benefit, and up to 19,000 people on to the sickness benefit. That sort of increase cannot be explained away by looking at expected rates of disability and illness in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThere is nothing to crow about in the Budget. The Minister wants to overlook the fact that he got some of his figures wrong in the first place. If he got those figures wrong, how can we rely on the other figures that are in the pack? It is an absolute sham. It is a lolly scramble, but people will get their lollies in a couple of years\u2019 time. Gee, that is really generous! But the thing about this Budget, and one of the key themes that I think it is important to remember, is that it makes some people who earn up to $80,000 dependent on the State. Michael Joseph Savage will be turning in his grave. This Government has made families whom he would have thought of as hard-working, independent people, now dependent on the State. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThis is going to backfire on the Government, because the main beneficiaries of this Budget are beneficiaries already. There is no vision in making welfare a more attractive part of this country. It is a sham, it is a cruel hoax, and nobody will get any benefit for some years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022572fda6ecc2440f4a1e10d619be38ab0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022572fda6ecc2440f4a1e10d619be38ab0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E That truly was the voice of the \u201Crich\u201D, broadcast live to New Zealand. That member is the last member in this House who should be getting up to talk about welfare dependency. She is the only person in the country I know who earns over $100,000 a year, and who got paid parental leave at the full 100 percent rate of her previous earnings. She then opposed the paid parental leave legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b15e349737fe4eebbac61a1c400125f7\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Dr Cullen is misleading the House. I did not get paid parental leave through the Government scheme. I think everybody knows that is a fib, and he should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1eb4e7f1fda434394ffb29549d0e733\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, the point I was making was that the member continued to draw her full parliamentary salary, and then opposed paid parental leave for others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf4eac295e574c6a9125c20ba321ed81\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Unless the member is raising that as a matter of privilege, the issue of misleading the House is a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe5e04548d6746cea7c3c93504c568c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We have some questions for the Opposition. Will Opposition members vote against this bill? Yes, they said. Oh, make my day, they have done it! Oh good. Firstly, Opposition members will vote against an extra $100-odd a week in the hand for struggling working families on $25,000, $30,000, $35,000, and $40,000 a year. Why? Because they will not get any of it. It is as simple as that. If we had made sure that they got the money, they would have voted for it, because that is the Tory view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESecondly, since the bill will pass, will National repeal it if it becomes the Government? Dr Lockwood Smith is a man with no vested interest in families with dependent children. Will he repeal this legislation if National becomes the Government? He looks baffled by that suggestion. He has only been here for 20 years and he does not know what \u201Crepeal\u201D means. Will National repeal it before lunchtime? No, National members will be true Tories. They will have their lunch first and repeal it after lunchtime. We know that is what a National Government would do, given half the chance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat were the alternatives? The alternatives were tax cuts. How do we deliver a benefit of over $100 a week, in the hand, to a person on $30,000 a year with two children? She is only paying $100 a week in tax at the present time\u2014or just over. So the first $30,000 of income would have to be completely tax-free. How much do members opposite think that would cost? It would cost billions, and billions, and billions of dollars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWho would get the biggest gain? Well, I would do extraordinarily very well out of it. I would get $300 a week out of doing that, unless of course we raised the marginal tax rates on higher incomes and put up the 39c rate. What would we get by lifting the threshold on the top tax rate from $60,000 to $70,000? Nothing for those earning under $60,000, and the princely sum of under $12 a week for all those earning $70,000 a year and above. The fact is that we cannot deliver gains of $100 a week, $120 a week, and $140 a week to people who are struggling in this life, because they do not pay enough tax to make it possible to deliver it that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat has come through in this debate already is the terrible prejudice that National Party people have. It came through from the ACT party in question time yesterday. We have the hard-working family on $50,000 a year, and the family, employed, on $25,000 a year. The National Party seriously believes that one\u2019s income is an absolute reflection of how hard one works. Look at those members opposite! How hard does Pansy Wong work? I have never seen her working in the entire time she has been in the House. On the rare occasions she was working, no one understood what she was doing at the time. There is no such relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESome of the hardest-working people in this country, who do jobs that nobody in this House would want to do, earn $25,000, $28,000, and $30,000 a year. These people are below Dr Lockwood Smith\u2019s horizon. His lofty gaze never comes down to their level. He assumes that somehow they are lazy, incompetent people. They happen to be a large proportion of our population. They happen to be the strata of society I am proud to have come from. Just because I now earn over $200,000 a year as Minister of Finance, I am not turning my back on them\u2014unlike members opposite, a few of whom came from similar backgrounds, and who argue for tax cuts just for them and nothing for struggling families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThose members wonder why there are social problems. They wonder why kids are going astray. They wonder why people are struggling when too many of our families do not have enough money, when too many children are being raised in poverty. National would say that they should get off their butts and just earn more. They should have chosen their parents better, as so many Tories do, so that they could have inherited wealth, instead of having to struggle up through the ranks of society, as so many others have to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe make no apology for putting more money in the hands of families who need it. That is what we were elected to do. We make no apology for the fact that families on $50,000 and $60,000 a year, with two or three children, will get some extra money in the hand, as well, because it can still be a struggle bringing up families on those sorts of incomes when modern rents, modern mortgages, and modern costs have to be paid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat National has never explained is why cutting the rate for those at the very upper end of society takes a higher priority than low to middle-income working families. Dr Smith has this strange belief that somehow or other the whole engine of the economy will move into a new gear if he plays a lower top tax rate. I have not noticed, in the increase from 33c to 39c, that the entire upper levels of New Zealand society\u2014especially those who earn $200,000-plus a year\u2014have downed tools and stopped working. All the ones who promised to go to Australia have not gone. I still see them at every meeting I go to. They are still earning vast sums of money. I do not want to hear from them in the next few days that they regard it as improper that people on modest incomes should receive some assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBut what we have done is increased the gains through employment, compared with being on the benefit. We have not done it by swiping $25 a week from beneficiaries, as the National Party did\u2014pushing more people into poverty and into despair. We have done it by giving a helping hand, so people can earn more by going out to work. By actually being employed they earn more, as a consequence of this package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ENational members will vote against that, because with that $1 billion they would prefer to buy a tax cut. What could they do? For $700-odd million of that they could cut the top rate of tax to 33c. That does nothing for the majority of New Zealand families with dependent children. They like to use an average based on the mean, which is biased hugely upwards by the wealthiest families in the country. The median income for a family with dependent children in New Zealand is not $60,000-odd a year; it is $49,000 a year, at the last measure. Therefore, cutting the top tax rate would benefit well under half of all families with dependent children, and most of those would get next to nothing out of it, either. So where is the justice in that? Where is the reward for effort in that? Where is the commitment to the future of New Zealand in that particular approach? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ENational has managed to summon up the courage to say it will vote against the bill\u2014big deal\u2014but it has not managed to get to the next step and say that if it became the Government, it would repeal this legislation, take the money away from the families that would get more and redistribute that money upwards to those at the top end of society. Because that is the logic of what Kathryn eponymous Rich said here this afternoon. It is what she believes ought to be done: this money should not go to low and middle-income families; this money should go to her and her ilk\u2014on a combined family income of God knows what. I suspect it would be well in excess of $200,000 a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWell, I am sorry. The evidence is that people at those sorts of levels in New Zealand have done pretty well in the last 5 or 10 years, all by themselves, through the workings of the markets. The people who have not done so well are those low to middle-income families. They face costs like childcare for going to work, and this Budget and this bill will benefit them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIf National wants to go to the hustings saying \u201CWe\u2019ll be better for pensioners\u201D, when it cut the pension, and \u201CWe\u2019ll be better for everybody else\u201D, when it cut benefits and wages and reduced conditions of employment, and if it wants to redistribute this package upwards to those who are least in need, then I urge that party to really \u201Cbring it on\u201D, because I am looking forward to that fight so very, very much indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u00222e00490b85314f36adf0a0cf9fe7b9e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e00490b85314f36adf0a0cf9fe7b9e3\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E In case there is anybody out there listening, I just say that Parliament is debating the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. There might be someone listening. One never knows. It is Budget day, so people could well be sitting there listening. This is a bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e11c3b0526244db1aa4cbde08a5fa354\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: The last one just turned off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204ce45affc4545c9bd6dc25da814a369\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Now, now; the Minister could be a little bit kinder than that. It is Budget day. I inform listeners that this bill has just been presented to the House, and nobody on the Opposition side of the House has had a chance to read it in any in-depth manner. We have just quickly gone through it. I inform people out there that the general policy statement in the explanatory note states: \u201CThe Bill\u2019s main objectives are to\u2014make work pay for parents who move off benefits into work:\u201D. That is a commendable aim, an absolutely commendable aim. It goes on to state in the next bullet point: \u201Cincrease family income to significantly address issues of income adequacy:\u201D. That is, beyond question, a commendable aim. The next bullet point states: \u201Caddress accommodation affordability by responding to the increased cost of housing:\u201D. That is another commendable aim. Those are three commendable aims. Then it states: \u201Cmake childcare assistance an integral part of the social security system in recognition of its importance to many families:\u201D. That is four commendable aims. And the fifth aim is to \u201Ctake steps to simplify the social security system.\u201D There are five commendable aims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EHow can New Zealand First vote against five commendable aims? Well, we cannot; we will support this bill. [Interruption] But I will tell members over there on the Government benches, before they get too overjoyed, that this is a lousy way to do politics or to play politics. We sat in this House on Monday, and we all said nice things about the House and how important Parliament is to ourselves and to the country, but to present a bill that the Opposition has to read and learn about in 10 seconds flat is to treat Parliament with contempt. That is not a fair go. This bill does not need to go through in such haste or in urgency. It is a \u201CTreat Parliament with Contempt Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIt is a guilty bill, because the Treasurer over there\u2014or does he call himself the Minister of Finance, or Treasurer, or both, or everything; he is \u201CMinister of Everything\u201D\u2014has so much money that he does not know what to do with it. He has to give some away. Actually, I think, on reading this bill, that he is giving it to the right people, which is why New Zealand First will support it. We do not believe that the Minister of Finance should sit on piles and piles of dollars\u2014billions and billions of dollars\u2014through applying some sort of ideology. We support some of that money going into the pockets of New Zealanders, and this bill does that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EBut have we got it right? Has the Government got it right? So many bills go through in a fast-track sort of way, with little or no consultation or scrutiny by Parliament, that I almost guarantee there is a major muck-up in this bill. But in the few moments I have had to read it and digest it, I cannot find it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ESo we will support the first reading of the bill, and will go through it clause by clause, I hope, when we come to the Committee stage. But I say to New Zealanders out there, particularly to family New Zealanders\u2014and New Zealand First does know what a family is, unlike some people on the other side of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcb363510432406182e3972d314fea2b\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: They have an academic knowledge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ef59913436d418da53825cb8ac367c5\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they have an academic knowledge, yes. But we actually know what a family is and how important families are to New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221c11df4c21f4c33b37c45411aa8a442\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: They studied for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224865ab02f854574b921a6016718b6ba\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: They have a degree in it, have they? This is getting me worried. I hope this money is going to the right people. New Zealand First would have appreciated more time to be able to digest this bill and what it is all about, but we recognise that the five aims are all worthwhile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227458fff940964d1ba113c1f04285f862\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Read them out again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212e1145fa7f140dca3b0a4678b150402\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I will read them out again for the Minister: to \u201Cmake work pay for the parents who move off benefits into work:\u201D\u2014a good aim\u2014and to \u201Cincrease family income to significantly address issues of income adequacy:\u201D. That is an excellent aim. To \u201Caddress accommodation affordability by responding to the increased cost of housing:\u201D sounds like a good aim. [Interruption] No, let them enjoy the moment, because I have the feeling\u2014[Interruption] Three fingers, eh?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3220b9a18446d588f0979ad253367e\u0022\u003EHon Steve Maharey\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, three!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262916e8b69bb43c5af3ca26b7d0fe687\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The member has five \u201Cfingers\u201D here. To \u201Cmake childcare assistance an integral part of the social security system in recognition of its importance to many families:\u201D is a good aim, as is to \u201Ctake steps to simplify the social security system.\u201D That is a good aim. But it is the Government\u2019s process that we object to. We think that pushing this bill through in the dark of night under urgency is unnecessary. I think there are plenty of people in this House who would support those aims, and we would have liked to have some input into them. We do not want to see a mucked up bill come in that adversely affects New Zealanders; we want the truth to emerge and what has been promised here to be delivered on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3bbf0ee5e334feebf7b480c29d2aaec\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Can you read the five again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229795c4f61b414b2f9b6bfd5daaf9f3dc\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister wants me to read the five again? I am getting a little bit exhausted. Does she think there might be someone else on the end of the radio now? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328105b4d89a466c86feedd2b649f416\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I am just enjoying it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204fdf20fb96144a8b64cc388a5b681be\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! There is a better way of looking after this country than introducing this knee-jerk sort of Budget, which flashes out the money and the lollies. There is a better way of doing it\u2014a planned economy. To be without a plan is to plan to fail. But we would sooner have this money in the pockets of New Zealand family people than have it sitting in the little chest that Dr Cullen goes and sits all night playing Scrooge with. We would sooner it were in the pockets of families. Therefore, New Zealand First will\u2014I was going to say support this bill going to the select committee, but the Government has abolished the select committee process on this bill. To hell with democracy! The Government is just imposing itself here. Right or wrong, we are being imposed on. Well, the Government has the aims right, but it has the process wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022460126e242c745c1ba3bf6944c989467\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: One out of two isn\u2019t bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244265544dbf947c79f408441ff856991\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: That is about the measure of it: one out of two\u2014half of it. New Zealand First will support this bill as it is. We will try to examine it in detail as we go through the debate in the House, but that is a pretty tall order because I suspect there will be some major errors in it. However, I do not want New Zealanders to suffer. Here is an opportunity to give some of Dr Cullen\u2019s money back to them, and we will not stop that occurring for anything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E In the unlikely event that this bill is right, when we lead the next Government we will not be repealing it. But I have my doubts that it is right\u2014[Interruption] Do members want me to say that again? When we lead the next Government, if this bill is correct we will not be repealing it. We will support the progress of this bill, but if we find something wrong we will highlight it hard and long. We hope, for the good of New Zealanders, that the Government has got it right, because it would be the first time that this Government has done something once and done it properly. We say it is better that the money is in the pockets of the average New Zealander, of family people, than in the pockets of the wealthy\u2014so let us hope that the Government has got it right. We will be monitoring it carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bca9d9eb2be64d028416e759a6379630\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bca9d9eb2be64d028416e759a6379630\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Future Directions package announced today in Dr Cullen\u2019s Budget, represented by this very sudden bill, is a mixed blessing. There is no question that the Green Party welcomes the steps that the Labour Government is taking to seriously address issues of endemic child poverty. It is a relief that after 4\u00BD years in power it is finally taking action and beginning a major redistribution of resources towards families and children that was so badly needed after the structural adjustments and widening gap between rich and poor over the last two decades. The Green Party will be supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe do not want to be ungracious about it, but at the same time I will take this brief opportunity to point out a few of our concerns with the legislation. We are quite disturbed by the underlying attitudes represented here, which basically say that it is much better for any parent, even a sole parent with young children, to be out there in the paid workforce rather than staying at home and carrying out the even more important job of being a good mother, or father in some cases. I have a strong sense today that Labour is actually strengthening that dangerous moral imperative that first emerged in the 1990s with the Shipley, Bazley, and Rankin reforms. The imperative says that really all parents, including single parents, should be contributing to the formal economy as a priority, rather than nurturing their babies and children. This bill has as its focus \u201Cmaking work pay\u201D\u2014a slogan used again and again to bolster an acceptance by society that anyone on a benefit should get off it as quickly as possible, even if it is to the detriment of parent and child and even if there are still hundreds and thousands of other people still out of work; and that somehow the children of beneficiary families deserve and need less money to live on than the children of parents in paid work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI believe the State should be neutral on whether single parents should have to work, and should also accept that it is not a bad thing if one partner in a two-parent beneficiary family works as a full-time caregiver for their children, rather than being work tested, forced out to work, or, as with this legislation, financially penalised for not going out to work. This is not to say that we do not support any measures to help beneficiaries with the transition between benefits and work. There are huge and accumulated problems with wage rates that are too low to support many families, a variety of punishing abatement regimes, and the indubitable burden of extra costs incurred when people first start work after being on a benefit. However, we believe that the way to deal with the transition is not by continuing to entrench the disparities between beneficiaries and working families on the same or similar incomes, thereby penalising the children, but rather through direct support of the working adult, and their needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI will turn now briefly to look more specifically at a few aspects of the bill. First of all, there is a lot of detail that will be done by regulation. The Green Party is concerned by the increasing tendency of this Government to put the detail of so much new policy into regulation, rather than doing it through the means of Parliament and the select committee process, which this bill will not have the privilege of going through. There is a lot of detail that will be done by the regulation review process and we will be watching that closely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThis bill does begin the simplification of the benefit system, which the Minister has been promising for the last 4 years, but I would like to reiterate that the Green Party would rather have seen at this time a whole rewrite and review of the Social Security Act\u2014we would like to see the Government start again. The Social Security Act has been with us since 1964 and it has been amended over and over again, as this bill does, yet again. After 4\u00BD years of work by the Ministry of Social Development on benefit reform, we would have thought that this would be a prize opportunity to undertake the whole process, rather than continuing to do it bit by bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe are pleased, however, that this package takes us in the direction of simplification. We are very pleased that the inflation indexing, which this bill promises with the family assistance, will happen. It is high time. But we note that although this bill brings family assistance up to date, families in the end will be only as comparatively well off as is equivalent to the position in 1992. It does not really keep pace in the way that we would like to see it do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe are also concerned about what is happening around the special benefit, which has been a problem area for a number of years for the Government and for beneficiaries. Detailed provisions on this are to be done by regulation, and again we will be keeping a close eye on where this goes. The accommodation supplement is also improved in this bill, which is a good thing for everyone who is in the position of needing an accommodation supplement right now, but in the end we would like to see the accommodation supplement abolished. The only way that will happen is if we have enough housing in this country, and if we do not have a situation where so many people are forced in the end to depend on the State to provide a subsidy that in effect goes both to the landlord of the accommodation and to the employer at the other end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EAlthough the Budget is increasing the number of State housing units that will be available, it is only by a very small amount. It will actually mean that State houses, as a proportion of the total housing rental stock, will continue to decline. In the long run the accommodation supplement is not the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I would like to reiterate that, despite our concerns and reservations about some aspects of this legislation, this is a commendable Budget initiative that families have been waiting for since 1991 when National\u2019s benefit cuts and the Employment Contracts Act deepened a whole generation\u2019s plunge into poverty. No one will be worse off as a result of this package, and I am grateful for that. Many, many families will be a lot better off over the next 4 years and into the future. I have a concern that, in the summary of the Government\u2019s new spending on the Working for Families package, it appears that the rate of spending goes up only very slowly. In 2004-05 it is $170 million, and spending does not go up to over $600 million until 2005-06, so the wait for substantial gains will be quite long for some people. But good on the Labour Party! The Green Party will be voting for this bill and we are pleased to see that such a big step has been taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe0d979b3410404cb86236ebda8b964f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe0d979b3410404cb86236ebda8b964f\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of the ACT party. ACT will be voting against this measure. We say to the House that it has no redeeming features.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223025026d29f34acdbbd55158e469d04f\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: None.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2052ca5f15246de811cd1fd51a421d6\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: None, whatsoever. What it does show is that the package that has been put in front of the House is a welfare, Work and Income package, and not one for working families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a86b2bf705d343128e5da4ecade80868\u0022\u003EHon Steve Maharey\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226417a9cccec844249fdabc4bc81e3d60\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: The member calls out \u201CRubbish!\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227557567ef08544d7888163f339504fcc\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: He said \u201CRubbish!\u201D It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd479182a3b54e5da1dfa401bc4cbc74\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: That shows that Mr Cunliffe did not bother to get briefed on the Budget, or alternatively did, but did not care about this interesting detail in the Budget. I ask the House why we are having to sit in urgency. There is only one reason we have to sit in urgency, and that is in order to bring measures in. What are we bringing the measures in for? Are they being brought in for working families? When we actually look at the Budget we find that the position of working families does not change, as the member says. The reason for the urgency is that on 1 April 2005, family support, which will go to welfare beneficiary households, will increase. It is regarded as so important to suddenly do something for Labour\u2019s welfare base that the House will have to sit in urgency!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E If members think that is not correct, they can look at page 5 to see that the current benefit rate structure will change. Who will get the increase, but domestic purposes, widows, unemployment, and sickness beneficiaries. Invalids benefits, domestic purposes benefits, and caring for the sick and infirm; that is why we are rushing this measure through. But members have heard leaks from statements Dr Cullen has made to this House. He said that the purpose of this Budget\u2014and, I guess, he claims, the purpose of this bill\u2014is to help working families, and members are starting to say how urgent and necessary that is. I heard the Green Party and, I think, the New Zealand First Party, say they all thought that that was well worthwhile. So let us see when the new in-work benefit starts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a95a102c13b441cdb86f10a81816fe7f\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Midnight tonight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b804c280535462289d80dc742a90386\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: The member asks whether it is midnight tonight. Under urgency, that would be a reasonable assumption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e60703458b964546affa0c779108cb44\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac8ec47f24834cef9d0a6e94639e32f9\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: No. Is it 1 April 2005, when the Government\u2019s welfare beneficiaries get a massive\u2014one cannot call it a pay increase, because they do not work\u2014increase in their benefits? No, it is not that. I would like to hear from the next Labour member why the date is 1 April 2006. Why do working people have to wait 2 years? Every single member who votes for this bill is saying to every working person in New Zealand who gets the increase: \u201CI thought it was so important, you should wait 2 years.\u201D Of course, what those members will probably say is: \u201CLook, don\u2019t complain, because most working people got nothing.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6e17013fdc453e88f780196748819d\u0022\u003EGerrard Eckhoff\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136cf6b8401b4558960c212d412e8d12\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. Statistics New Zealand says there are 550,000 working families in New Zealand with dependants, and the Minister tells us that eventually, in 2 years\u2019 time, 150,000 working people with dependants will receive some money. The 150,000 beneficiary-led families will have it paid early, and that leaves\u2014and I know that everyone on the other side of the House has done the calculations, so I want them to forgive me for pointing it out, just in case they have not\u2014250,000 working families in New Zealand with dependants who, if members support this bill, will get nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EDr Cullen told the House that he had gone through the Budget carefully to make sure there were no losers. Where was Mr Cunliffe when those calculations were being done? He occasionally visits the New Lynn constituency\u2014not often, as he does not want to stay there\u2014but he occasionally comes to visit us in New Lynn. How is it that he did not point out to Dr Cullen that the majority of working people in the New Lynn constituency will be losers in this Budget? Their only role, Mr Cunliffe, is to be bystanders and to pay for this largesse that the Labour-Progressive\u2014and, I suppose, United Future doormat\u2014Government will be supporting. I thought the United Future Party supported families. But no, United Future will apparently vote for this package, so those members support this increase in welfarism. They support making New Zealanders more dependent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003ELet me give this example. [Interruption] No, the member should listen to this. If one takes the example of a family with two children on a moderate income of $50,000 a year, and work out where it will be after this Budget, in 2 years\u2019 time it is true that it will get a slight increase in its position. But the family\u2019s net position is that as taxpayers, they will pay more to the Government than they receive back. But if that family on $50,000 a year decides to halve its income to $25,000 and have 20 hours off, then it qualifies under this Budget. What happens to its real net income? It is only $4,500 worse off than if it was earning $50,000 a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa0425875ab413f982a6782462aae43\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f85ef9326efb49d2a3164e6d193260aa\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely! In fact, it might be worse than that. I have not been able to quite work it out, but there will be a new special accommodation allowance for parts of Auckland\u2014which may or may not include the New Lynn electorate; I suspect it does. I think that under the accommodation allowance, the difference between earning $25,000 and $50,000 a year, after all payments, would probably work out at around $80 a week. That is a huge incentive not to take overtime or work extra, but to go to the boss and say: \u201CLook, I would rather work 30 hours a week than 40, because 10 hours a week is worth more to me than being paid $4,000 a year.\u201D Of course it is, because one could probably go off and do a bit of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c063b21a57594369bbd02aaf57c58ba8\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Moonlighting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c56ca6fdc8b941c8a21093ed2c31de45\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014moonlighting. But I would not suggest that any New Zealander would do that\u2014even though theInland Revenue Department says that moonlighting in New Zealand is worth somewhere between $6 billion and $10 billion a year in the black economy. This bill will see the biggest boost to the black economy ever. If one has children, the only way to get ahead is to, first, breed, because the more children one has, the more money one gets\u2014it is much easier than working hard. The second thing one should do\u2014under this bill\u2014is to reduce the number of hours one does and then take up a cash job like mowing lawns or something similar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EI say to members opposite that that is what they are doing. This is a bill to take us on a low-wage, Third World economy path. There are no redeeming features in this bill. This is nothing compared with the huge impact that we would have on the prosperity of New Zealand and the prospects of every New Zealand child, if there were a 20c flat rate of tax\u2014which we could have had. Instead, what we have is the sight of members of Parliament, after having taken $6 billion of the taxpayers\u2019 money from them, asking to be praised for having given some of it back. State radio asked me today: \u201CIsn\u2019t it fair enough for the Labour Party to be helping and looking after its people?\u201D, and I think that shows exactly the level of morality of this Government. It should not be looking after its people; it should be looking after all the people. It should be looking after the nation, instead of being a narrow, partisan Government, which is way behind in the polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25b3184a4384581929dc5a3bb621cec\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: They are all our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af64e49501245dd8271a098ae7eb70f\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Cunliffe, the Liberal Party in Australia put forward a benefit breeding programme, where the Treasurer said: \u201CThis is a policy that is going to encourage people to have kids.\u201D, and what happened to that party\u2019s popularity? It went into free fall. The only thing stopping this Government from going into free fall is one cannot really go into free fall when one is already under 38 percent\u2014but one can still fall; that can still happen. I say to Mr Cunliffe that he can look for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235bb80cba2ad419e96ca183313f95be0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your support\u20141 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206bd44c20a8b4eb790375c35b17d986e\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: No, since I have quit the leadership it has gone up by 50 percent\u2014so I am looking for great things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00226dde2a7141b948e18baeda036753cd04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226dde2a7141b948e18baeda036753cd04\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E United Future will be supporting this bill. We could do nothing else, given the fact that Dr Cullen and the Government have seen fit to introduce measures almost identical to those United Future has sought in working towards the implementation of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. Just to back that up, I want to read almost verbatim from the letter and notes I wrote in October last year, when we were in dialogue with the Government about what should be included in this year\u2019s Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EOur party decided to put to the Government that it should be a priority in this year\u2019s Budget to address the issue of family support. The first thing we said we were looking for was a complete overhaul of the family assistance system. This bill does that. We wanted to do that by making a significant overall increase in the assistance given to beneficiaries and low-income working families, with specific recognition of the number of children who would be dependent on the family income. This bill delivers that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe wanted to see a simplification of the system by the amalgamation or elimination of the present segmented family support, child tax credit, and parental tax system. We predicted that this would be likely to require a downgrade in the level of the benefit for those who were not in the workforce, but a downgrade that would be more than offset by the increase in child benefit payments. That is exactly what this bill does. We sought a widening of the after-tax income level between families on benefits and working families, in order to incentivise and encourage participation in the workforce. This bill delivers on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI should add that the 1991 benefit cuts that were rushed through in great haste by the National administration of the day did not adequately address the way the accommodation supplement and other things were rebated, giving very perverse outcomes and very high effective marginal tax rates to many families that were endeavouring to do what we all want them to do\u2014to move from benefits into the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe wanted to ensure that all families entitled to support actually received it, and we are delighted that the Government has signalled that it will be undertaking a major marketing campaign to ensure that all families that should benefit from these measures will do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe also asked the Government to make sure that we retained some relativity and comparability with Australia, for the very important and inevitable reason\u2014and, in many ways, unfortunate reason\u2014that some New Zealand families are relocating to Australia because that Government is giving better assistance to families than they can receive here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EOne of the things I am delighted to see in this bill is that benefit levels will now be indexed. Every time the consumer price index moves by 5 percent or more, the relative level of benefits and other assistance to families will move in tandem with it, thus retaining in real terms the benefit we seek to deliver to those needy low and middle-income families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI remember very well having a conversation with Dr Cullen before the Budget in 2002 on the whole question of indexation. As a result of that conversation, members may recall that in last year\u2019s Budget we began at long last to index those families at the upper end of the scale in terms of income. Last year\u2019s Budget delivered $59 million in family assistance to those families, which would not have happened had United Future not been in Parliament to advocate for their situation and to bring that reality to the attention of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI remember saying to Dr Cullen that if a family had, for example, four children, then even at an income of over $50,000 a year, it would still be struggling to make ends meet. I had no idea at that stage that just a couple of weeks ago we would see in the Sunday Star-Times the big write-up and all the publicity given to the McLachlan-Gilbert family, which is in exactly that situation. It proves the point, once and for all, that even at that level, families continue to need direct support from the Government. The reality is that it is expensive to raise children. We need to take that fully into account, and I am delighted that in this Budget the cut-off point for a lot of families is as high as $70,000. For those with quite large families, it goes up even further than that, to maybe $80,000. We welcome that very much indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI also want to say that the fiscal stimulus that will be delivered to the New Zealand economy through the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill is timely. No less an authority than the Reserve Bank has said that this is the right way and the right time to give some fiscal stimulus to our economy, because it is going slightly off the boil at the moment and, therefore, can take that stimulus without any adverse effect on monetary policy. That is very, very important indeed. What could be more important right now for this country than to put additional funds, via fiscal stimulus, into the pockets of those people who most need it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe unfortunate reality for New Zealand at this point in time is that children and poverty go together. If we think for a moment about how the money that will be delivered through this bill will be spent, it becomes obvious that this is exactly the right thing to do at this point in our history. The money will be spent on food, on clothing, on school uniforms and transportation to and from school, on mortgage repayments, on rent, and, I could add, the odd treat by way of family outings and family holidays. I wonder how many families in this country have not had a decent holiday together as a family for some years. It is very important that we give such encouragement now to those intangible but very important aspects of family life. Who knows? Maybe a family will even be able to get a newer car\u2014probably a second-hand import, but still a step up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe basic and fundamental thing is that through this Budget, our kids and their mums and dads will benefit. They will be able to spend more money on their families. In truth, this is not just expenditure on our families; it is also an investment in the future of our nation. Indeed, I suggest to the House that the measure of a nation and of a society\u2019s greatness is how it caters for, and looks after, its children. It should be the No. 1 priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EUnited Future is delighted that this bill will significantly and substantially reduce the level of child poverty in this country. For too long we have allowed children and poverty to go together in our nation. In many analyses, people have said that if we look for the cause of poverty in our nation at the moment, we will see that it is related to children. Those with children are the poorest members of our society, and the more children they have, the poorer they become. Why? Simply stated, it is because a single income\u2014paid, very often, to a working family\u2014just does not give them enough to look after their children and give them the benefits we want them to have. I, for one, do not want to live in a country that is prepared to allow its children to live in poverty. We need to give every child the best possible opportunity for a great start in life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI was very offended by Richard Prebble\u2019s nasty reference to \u201Cbreeding\u201D. I find that deeply, deeply offensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e02e5a4d8e4c422482f873323206942e\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba449fefa754a54adf0a156f65ca376\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND\u003C/span\u003E: Because children are our greatest blessing and our greatest wealth. They are not just our present reality, but also our future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a16193b2a3ec49e180f3153691a1b9b9\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Why do only the poor have them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cc85b1465814580a6eeecc1d7c3be5e\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND\u003C/span\u003E: That is nonsense. I can tell the member that many people who probably earn a lot more than he does actually rejoice in large families, and I know lots and lots of couples who place a high priority on that. Has he so quickly forgotten the McLachlan-Gilbert family that was written up in the Sunday Star-Times just a couple of weeks ago? Did he not see in those photographs the kind of situation that all of us would like to see for our families? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIn summary, this is a great bill. I know I will be disappointed, but I came here tonight\u2014not having heard the National and ACT speakers\u2014in the hope that this bill might have the support of all parties in the House. If any party does not vote for the bill, let members of that party\u2014here and now during the first reading\u2014stand up and tell the people of New Zealand that they intend to repeal it if they ever become the Government. Let us get really honest and down to basics. They should have the courage of their convictions. If they are not going to vote for this bill, they should undertake to repeal it. I say to members of the National Party\u2014some of whom are saying right now on the radio that they cannot make their minds up about the bill\u2014that they should get off the fence and vote for the future of New Zealand by delivering some much-needed assistance to struggling families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.59 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f574bd5b0c2f4e55956af009275dfc3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f574bd5b0c2f4e55956af009275dfc3f\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the 11th call in this debate to be a split speech between New Zealand First and National, with New Zealand First having the first call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282accdcf1417444c9c0eaeb31aae1411\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002215952ec49ba14eea9b4b4032a2a8e201\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215952ec49ba14eea9b4b4032a2a8e201\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. The name says it all. It is about the future\u2014the future today, the future tomorrow, year in, and year out. This legislation is about what this Government will do for working families in New Zealand, and I give it my wholehearted support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EPeter Brown read out the five objectives of the bill and said New Zealand First could not vote against it. I do not need to repeat those five objectives. They were clearly put by an Opposition party member who could see through the National Party rhetoric and the ACT rhetoric, and would support a good bill in this Parliament. That is Parliament working at its best. Members will find that the overwhelming majority of members of this Parliament will support this bill. I predict that somewhere around 82 votes will support this bill. Does that mean most parliamentarians are right, or wrong? In terms of a parliamentary majority, it means most members in this House recognise legislation that will help families not only this year and next year but into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBut that will happen only if there is a Government that supports the measures in the bill. The truth is out. The dried arrangement who is the Leader of the Opposition was on Holmes tonight. I have never seen a more wooden performance in my life. He said that if people voted for Labour they would have these measures, but if they did not vote for Labour, they would not have them. Well, there it is; it is out there. These measures will be gone \u201Cby lunchtime\u201D, should the National Party, in coalition with the remnants of ACT\u2014should ACT members get voted back in after Richard Prebble leaves\u2014get back in Government. The truth is out: if people vote for National, all the benefits in this bill will be gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI know that New Zealanders are not silly. They will be listening to this debate. They will be weighing up the options. They will be looking at what the bill does for them and their families, and they will be saying that the National Party has no commitment to families unless they earn heaps of money. If families earn heaps of money, then National will give them more, because it thinks those are the people who vote for it. National thinks that a family that earns $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, or $60,000 a year is not a hard-working family, because if it was really hard-working it would earn more\u2014it would have the ability to earn more. Who would be mowing those members\u2019 lawns and looking after their gardens? Who would be taking away the rubbish they throw out every week? Who would be looking after their kids? Who would be teaching their kids? Who would be the nurses in the hospitals? Those people earn under $60,000. They are the sorts of people who look for some payback in a Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI find it very interesting that it was OK for National, when it was in power, to give money back to families through family tax credits and family support. That is how it gives money to families\u2014through tax credits and family support. Those people were not called beneficiaries when National gave them money, but they are called beneficiaries when Labour gives them money. What hypocrisy! How can those people not be called beneficiaries, when National puts money into tax credits and family support, but the minute Labour puts some real money into those areas, those people become beneficiaries? Well, that two-faced approach can be seen through. National members cannot say that when National does it it is OK\u2014it is good\u2014but when Labour does it, it is bad. If those people are called beneficiaries now, they should have been called beneficiaries under National, and that is the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo National should either face up to the fact that it would do something for families through a mechanism that gives them money, or just admit that it would give money to the rich through tax cuts. Michael Cullen made it clear that if a Government wants to put that sort of money into families\u2019 pockets, it would have to exempt tax on families\u2019 incomes up to $30,000\u2014no tax at all. That would mean I got a big tax break. That would mean that Maurice Williamson got a big tax break, and John Key, etc., etc. I listen to Maurice Williamson; he has always been an honest man. He has said that is excellent; he has said that it would be very good if he got a tax cut, but not good if people who need more money got a tax cut, or got more money in their pockets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI ask National this: is it all right to tax people and give them hip operations? Those members say it is not all right to tax people and give the money back to them in family support or family tax credits, but is it all right to tax them and give them hip operations? Don Brash said in his speech that for months National had been advocating for families, that for months it had been advocating for more operations. So we are allowed to tax and put that money into operations, but we are not allowed to tax and put that money into families. That is a double standard. If we say the money belongs to the people\u2014that taxes come from the people\u2014we should then decide how to get the best benefit for the people. Well, we say there is a lot of benefit in taxing people and giving them hip operations, knee replacements, and so on. We believe that is good expenditure of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIn fact, one of the things I like about what this Government has done is that we say there are things we can do for families in terms of income, and there are also things we can do for, particularly, our older people through operations like hip and knee replacements. We have said let us improve that; based on evidence, based on research, and working with the sector, let us improve access to those operations, so that our older folk have a better quality of life. The payback is that our older folk have a better quality of life; they are able to be mobile, to go out and enjoy their grandkids. That is the sort of payback that should go back to our older New Zealanders. Their children have grown up, but in terms of taxing people and putting that money where it is needed, that is good use of money, and that is what this Government has done. [Interruption] Maurice Williamson does not want a hip replacement at the moment, but I do not think he would want to pay $20,000 or $30,000 for a hip operation or a heart operation. Mind you, he probably has private medical insurance, but when he reaches 65 and his premiums are doubled or trebled, he might not be able to afford that operation. Then, of course, he will not be a hard-working New Zealander, so he will not deserve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI found Richard Prebble\u2019s speech one of the most interesting and one of the most disgusting. One of the things he said is that this Budget encourages breeding. Well, it is absolutely certain that man has never had a baby. I do not know whether he has ever fathered a child. If he had, he would know that one would need more than a few dollars to want to have a baby. I can see my colleague from New Zealand First nodding her head; she knows what I am saying. Any member who says that this Budget encourages people to breed is very, very strange indeed. I do not know what sort of other inducement those members need to do other activities, but I can assure members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed82b060b709403eb4ad549b79c67969\u0022\u003EGerrard Eckhoff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Reference to the childless status of members of this House is not exactly encouraged. I recall not so very long ago the childless status of our Prime Minister being talked about in this House. The comments of the Minister are quite inappropriate. She should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228030c5fa6544a029b563c7b64cf3f14\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to members that disparaging remarks about members are made all the time in this House. It is the personal reflections that we have to be concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f3c267fa29463eacfe62cf845ebcd9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know who has fathered children in this House and who has not. There was no reflection on Mr Prebble. I do not know whether he has fathered children. He may well have fathered many of them. After all, another thing he said was to ask why the poor had children. I presume there was a time when he was poor. I presume that for most people\u2014those who were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth\u2014there was a time when they were poor. I believe that most people who have families do not have a lot of money when they are 20, 25, or 30. They are buying a house and setting up their home. They have mortgages, kids to pay for, and clothes to pay for. They are not usually wealthy. Most people are not rich when they have families. Richard Prebble made the very strange comment: \u201CWhy do the poor have babies?\u201D. Maybe that is something he can ponder into the future, because he certainly will not be around very much longer to be able to make such stupid comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI believe that this is an exceptionally good bill. It will give support to families that need it. But all that I have heard from the Opposition is knocking and nagging. We believe that Opposition members are the knockers and the naggers of this Parliament. There are plenty of knockers and naggers over there. Could they please give us just one policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022065a4f0d57c844c1bea24933f5da077f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022065a4f0d57c844c1bea24933f5da077f\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E What an incoherent rant from the Minister of Health. How out of touch she is, telling the Hon Richard Prebble that people will not have a few more babies for a few extra bucks. Did she not notice the Australian Budget, where it had a baby bonus payment of $1,000? Has she not noticed the Italian Budget, which pays people $1,000? Mark my words, it will be a Labour Government one day that will come in here and tell the people of New Zealand that they have to have more kids, and that they have to have one for the country. A Labour Government will be paying people $1,000, and the Minister of Health will be blushing even more than she is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EDid anyone see Michael Cullen on the Holmes show tonight? What a disgrace! All that nasty envy was oozing from the Minister of Finance. He tried to convince the people of New Zealand that this was not just an envious, sort of hopeless, Budget. The House does not have to take my word for it that this is not a good Budget. Members do not have to listen to me, even though I know it is a terrible Budget. We will talk about that and the Future Directions package in a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet us listen to the people of New Zealand who were asked: \u201CDoes the Budget do it for you?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d59e54968c8744cd8332b6ad118e0b8a\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: What did they say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022554121cd40b6405382f6dabc153aab51\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If the Budget does it for them in the same way as they will vote when the polls are out, there will be a difference in this Parliament in 2005. The Labour Party will look like United Future. That is how many seats the Labour Party will get. A total of 1,802 people said that it did it for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022240c0f76bf354543b99ae1f49fa131a6\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c5f0c8cb654f2c8dfae56d08f1a020\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Eighteen hundred and two\u2014that is, about 20 percent of all people who bothered to ring up said that the Budget did it for them. A total of 8,349 people said that it did not do a thing. Excuse me for being a bit of a mathematician, but one in five is exactly the same number of people who will get something out of this Budget. Michael Cullen has degrees from every university across the country. One would think he would be able to add the figures up and work out that when one in five New Zealanders are given something\u2014when he takes $1.5 billion worth of extra taxation from people every year because of all the tax he puts on them and then gives them $220 million back\u2014no one is surprised that one in five think this is a good Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIt is a disgrace. It had so much hype it was embarrassing. Yesterday the New Zealand Herald was ashamed of itself. It wrote a story saying that people earning $80,000 a year would get something in the Budget. The New Zealand Herald was not lying. Those people will get something\u2014but in 2008. If they have four kids they will get $25. Thanks very much! In the interim they will have paid thousands of dollars more. If that is the secret to success in our country I will be glad when the Labour Party looks like United Future, because there will be nine members too many. That is the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b1e8c9d0e84c7d8b6bc11a93229044\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Gives us those numbers again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4b991063a9e48c4be81b96c7caaf8dd\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The result of the Holmes show poll was that 80 percent of the country said that they had had enough of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIf the Future Directions and Working for Families packages make such a good Budget and will fix welfare in this country, can somebody in this House just answer me one question? I only have one question for Mr Maharey. If this Budget is doing so much for families who are on benefits, is moving them on from being beneficiaries, and is the saviour of our country, can he just tell me why Treasury is telling us that beneficiary numbers will rise in New Zealand after this package, and that it will cost $4 billion more. That is what Treasury has told us after looking at it. Not only has Treasury slammed the growth rate, but it has said that 3.6 percent for the last decade\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ce5dbc0ca92454998718123d2078ec5\u0022\u003EHon Steve Maharey\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member invited us to answer a question so I thought we should answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c50ab2087ba947348750cb5d141be7bb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order and the member is not yielding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221903ef4acf554c0496c6e35d910a6e18\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I see the embarrassment of members on that side of the House. Government members are very quiet over there. The Minister of Health\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae9563972944903a45893f99bca3eaa\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to members that behaviour in this House is beginning to slide downwards. It is time for us to look at the standards of conduct we expect in this House. I suggest members look up Speaker\u2019s ruling 56/1, which states that interjections are to be rare, reasonable, and relevant. Chaos may be the parent of creation, but not in here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c31ab5c0bae473cbc2798f12a1826e3\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: This is a bizarre Budget if I do say so, myself. It is a bizarre package. Over the last 5 years the Hon Dr Michael Cullen has taken money out of the pockets of working New Zealanders so fast one would think he were an octopus. He has had eight hands in there taking money from everywhere. Now, under the hype, the octopus has said he will give a little bit back to people, and that they should be grateful and thank him for it. Quite frankly, those one in five people who will get something probably are grateful, but it is the other four out of five people who will get nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ELet us just look at the Working for Families package for a moment. The Government is going to encourage New Zealanders to get off benefits by giving them an in-work payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247253ab30c7b4949908d65e27dc3e6ee\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member sold those ornaments on the mantelpiece yet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022156ac7178a534d5cb637d8ca59ac2148\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I do not intend to. Let us look at the in-work payment for just a moment, because it is a very interesting point. If it is such a great strategy for getting people into work\u2014and we support in-work payments to encourage people to be active in the workforce\u2014why is it to be applied only to people who have children? What happens to beneficiaries who are on their own\u2014beneficiaries who do not have kids? Why is it not good enough for them? Why do people have to have 3, 4, or 5 children? Why is it not good enough for hard-working people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ETonight so many New Zealanders have had their hopes dashed by this Government. The hype machine has been working. The Government has been trying to learn from Don Brash, and Government members have their backs to the wall. They have 12 months before \u201Csituations vacant\u201D becomes a very relevant part of the newspaper. They have 12 months to go. They are on the slippery slide if I do say so, myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThey are looking at themselves, but they cannot work out why it is all not working. It is because four out of five New Zealanders will get nothing out of this Budget, and they are genuine New Zealanders. They are young people who have come out of university, saying: \u201CI\u2019m going to wait before I have a family because I want to pay off my student loan.\u201D Other New Zealanders are saying: \u201CI want to wait before I have a family so that I can put a deposit on my first house.\u201D They are older New Zealanders who know that New Zealand superannuation is not enough, and they are trying to save a little money to pay for their houses. But there is nothing for them in this Budget. There is nothing in this Budget at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0cdff4157a84dd2a25778f8c9227e77\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members on my right that running commentaries are out of order. There will be a few yellow cards going out very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df88947ad278412d8d39cafda9335893\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has had months to work on this package, but what do we find? One of the five examples from the taskforce is wrong. We looked at it in the lock-up, and we said that the numbers were wrong. And if they are wrong in one of the five examples, they could be wrong in all of them. [Interruption] Perhaps I could tell the member how they were wrong. There was an example of a 16-year-old who, for 3 years, would stay 16. It is absolutely hilarious. The Government has had months and months to get it right. It has hyped it up, and now it has dashed the hopes of New Zealanders. It really is a very, very sad day for the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWe on the Opposition side see a Government that has been snatching taxes off people. We see a Government that we thought was going to have the biggest lolly scramble in history, and sure enough it did, but it could not even get the numbers right. It could not even work out that all New Zealanders deserve a return for their hard work\u2014all those New Zealanders out there who contribute and work hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThey listened to Jim Anderton, and he has sold them the biggest pup in history. He said: \u201CGive them corporate welfare. We\u2019re giving them welfare in other places so give them corporate welfare.\u201D That is what he told Helen Clark. \u201CThey will absolutely love it.\u201D Lo and behold, Federated Farmers were the first people off the block, and they came out and said they did not want corporate welfare. Exporters up and down the country do not want corporate welfare. They have said they do not want those handouts; they want tax cuts. They want to have a grade equivalent to Australia, and genuine legislation that will help them do their business. They do not want Jim Anderton, his scissors and his camera, and all the rest of it. They do not want that. This Budget is a complete failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002244b55e06f7374e0e9da5b5358ad35ae1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244b55e06f7374e0e9da5b5358ad35ae1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I think we have just seen why Don Brash is not prepared to hand over the finance spokespersonship. We have heard from the man whom Maurice Williamson\u2019s good friend Michelle Boag got into Parliament on a promise that he could be the spokesperson on finance. Then they got Don Brash in as well, on a late run. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWhat we have heard from the member who just resumed his seat\u2014the member who popped into Parliament from his second or third country house in Helensville\u2014was embarrassing. That member thought about doing some work earlier in the afternoon, decided against it, and then decided to pop down to Parliament for a bit of fun and make the sort of speech that really is embarrassing. Frankly, I am embarrassed. I was here to rebut the attack on this legislation from John Key, but I sat here for the entire speech and tried to work out whether he was for it or against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225367345020794cf7a6d00283ea1d5eb5\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225498242ec96c4047b5abfb339e2b9a48\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: He is against it. That is good\u2014progress from Maurice Williamson. They are against it. I could not tell from listening to John Key. I am told by the member for Wanganui that ornaments on Mr Key\u2019s mantelpiece could buy a house in Wanganui. That is why he does not understand this piece of legislation. He is spouting on about a poll on a television channel that is overwhelmingly watched by Tories.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b1f95fe53c3491b9edd61eae36cd41d\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What? Television One?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d470ad83a79247199fc72dc6929237ca\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Television One\u2014the channel that is overwhelmingly watched by people in the upper-income groups, the people who can afford to spend 99c each time, 100 times in half an hour, to respond to a poll. They are the sorts of people who respond to that. Maurice Williamson, I can see, has repetitive strain injury in his finger from using his cellphone to ring up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213e1bef263f94e429415d1d2d53310d6\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Not from my cellphone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022707807fc8a0c4eda958b873df1fc8140\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: He used his office phone to ring up Paul Holmes, time and time again. Even Richard Prebble, who every now and then is a lot of fun\u2014he gets excited\u2014knows not to rely on polls that people have to pay to enter. Except for the ACT polls, of course, for the leadership. Rodney Hide is buying it pretty well at the moment, but let us leave that to one side\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022574c4ad385664b2c86400c41418934e9\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He got 99 percent of the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b767baa30cf4532af2fbe5b00124983\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E:  In the ACT party, I think they are desperate to find anyone to vote. I have never seen people who are less willing to talk about legislation and the issues, and want to speak more about their leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ELet us get to some of the issues in this bill. At this point, I want to congratulate my friend Steve Maharey on the work he has done in this legislation. It is fair to say that there are often tensions between education and the labour market in deciding to work in the early childhood education area. Sometimes they can work against each other. Moving quality up in early childhood education costs, but this Minister has made sure that people with three children\u2014maybe with only one of them in early childhood education\u2014and with incomes of over $60,000 are getting support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ENational is opposed to families earning over $60,000 and with one child in early childhood education getting support for that. Shame on them! Why do they care so little for the children of middle-income New Zealand? Why do they hate them so much that they say that they should not get support for their children to get quality early childhood education while their mothers and fathers go out to work? I do not understand why Tories attack middle-income New Zealanders so much. They do not care about them. They do not understand. Maybe my friend the member for Wanganui is right\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed81117a1ca1474fa4a668beba958a0f\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s not your friend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd53b88ba46b4354aad46852a8ee4b41\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: She is a very good friend of mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627d0a709d914cad832eb7490c11a69f\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s not your friend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223c4124c7aad46e9a6eb15d9655daabc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: She is a very good friend and colleague. But the point I am making is that maybe she is right when she looks over there at David Carter, Lockwood Smith, and John Key, and says they just do not understand where middle-income New Zealand is at. They do not understand the people who have to think about whether they can afford 99c to ring up Paul Holmes, or whether they can afford to have their kid in an extra hour of childcare this week while they go to the dentist or the doctor. Those are the sorts of people who win out of the legislation we are debating, and the Tories opposite just do not care about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI think it is sad, exceptionally sad, that they are not commending this Government for the quality and the fairness of the package. For all their talk about the importance of work and getting people into work, they are opposing the legislation that is most likely to do it. If we were outside the House they would be called hypocrites. We cannot use that term in here, and I will not, but I want to make it clear that these people are saying one thing yesterday and another thing today. They say they want New Zealanders to work. They say they care about early childhood education, but when it comes to their votes, it becomes clear to us that the people sitting on the opposite side of the House cannot make a sensible decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E Do members know what is the best thing they could do? My old friend, Maurice Williamson, I am sure, would have given them this advice. I have a lot of time for Mr Williamson on occasions. He knows a bit about parliamentary tactics, and he would have told them: \u201CWhen you are on a loser, cut it short. Just say \u2018yes\u2019 quickly, get it over with, shut your eyes, and get on to the new business.\u201D When that is happening, and one is being stuffed in a political sense, at that point it is better to say: \u201CI accept it. We are losing on this particular case. I want to move forward, get it over with, and get on to somewhere where it might be more enjoyable.\u201D Because what is clear to me is that members opposite have not been thinking carefully about the political tactics here. They want to stretch it out. When one is being done over, it is better not to extend it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMembers opposite need to think very carefully. They need the votes of people in the $25,000 to $60,000 income group\u2014not the $80,000, not the $1-million-a-year people whom Mr Key is worrying about. It is the people in the $26,000 to $60,000 group\u2014the families of New Zealand\u2014and what they have given them tonight is two fingers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002221c72935f65540b4960eeb70c55393b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221c72935f65540b4960eeb70c55393b9\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E As my colleague Peter Brown pointed out, New Zealand First will be supporting this legislation\u2014the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. We need families to survive, as strong families are the basis of society, and we have all debated that many times in this House over the last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe are tired of reading negative reports on the state of New Zealand families. All the recent reports on New Zealand families, the UN report, and the Child Poverty Action Group report, state that New Zealand needs to take urgent action to enhance the lives of its children and those of its families. Many children live happy and fulfilling lives in their families, but the less fortunate live in poverty and face violence and discrimination. All of these issues can be addressed by the Government, and this legislation should do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhen there are figures that are internationally comparable, New Zealand always stacks up really poorly. We have a large gap between rich and the poor, and we have many children living in poverty. We have high rates of death from causes such as infant deaths and sudden infant death syndrome. We have a large gap, too, between children who do well in school and children who do poorly. We have a high rate of youth suicide, a high rate of teenage mothers, and so forth. By international comparisons, we could, and should, be doing a lot better, and this legislation will hopefully do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe Agenda for Children came out 2 years ago, but last year\u2019s Budget contained nothing to implement that agenda. It promised to end child poverty, but there was nothing in that Budget to improve the situation of poor families. These families have had to wait until this year\u2019s Budget, and we hope they will benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI was really pleased to see on page 23 of the explanatory note of this bill two internationally recognised income poverty measures with thresholds set at 50 percent and 60 percent of median household income, and that the Government estimates, after full implementation, that there will be a 70 percent reduction in child poverty at the lower threshold and a 30 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f29e5444c73f432d82cfce5b8395ba4c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but it is a convention in this House that members should not conduct conversations in the House unless it is necessary to do so, and then only so as not to disturb the proceedings. I urge restraint on members to respect the contributions of another member. It is good conduct, common courtesy, and good form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260260ec9c7c34dfbafec85760a9a9091\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: In looking at page 23 of the explanatory note, I see that the Government estimates that, after full implementation, there will be a 70 percent reduction in child poverty at the lower threshold and a 30 percent reduction in child poverty at the higher threshold. We hope this reduction in poverty actually occurs, and no one can argue that it should not. We in New Zealand First will be monitoring that very carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is really pleased to see that some of Dr Cullen\u2019s pot of gold will go to families. We want to see families prosper, and we want the worthy objectives at the start of the commentary, which my colleague Peter Brown pointed out, actually achieved. We hope this bill is right, and that there are no errors in it, as we have not really had a chance to thoroughly read its 50 pages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe always say that the wealth of our nation can be seen in our children. Our children at the moment do not reflect a prosperous nation. Hopefully, this legislation should reverse that trend. We want to see changes to the state of our families. We want to see work pay for parents who move off benefits into work. We want to see family income increased to significantly address the issues of income inadequacy, and we want to see childcare assistance an integral part of the social security system in recognition of its importance to families. We want to see accommodation made affordable by some way of responding to the increased cost of housing. This bill outlines these things in its objectives, and we want to see them implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3355431489847e9adce3f1b29493622\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3355431489847e9adce3f1b29493622\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E This carry-on in here tonight reminds me of that song that goes: \u201COh what a circus, what a show!\u201D. What is so ridiculous is that the House is in urgency tonight passing legislation that does nothing until October. Most of it does not happen until April next year, and some of it does not happen until April 2007\u2014but they have to pass it in urgency tonight! Why? Because they want to give publicity to this outrageous package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDo members know what is outrageous about it? This is the greatest con-job that has ever been imposed on the honest working people of New Zealand. What Steve Maharey, Michael Cullen, and Helen Clark are doing is taxing hell out of honest working families; taxing them blind. They do that with the right hand, and then with their left hand\u2014the left hand being a Labour Government, of course\u2014they come back and say: \u201CWe\u2019re going to give you this money. What a great Government we are, we\u2019re going to give you hard-working families this money.\u201D The con-job is this. The money belongs to those families in the first place. This disgusting Labour Government of Clark, Cullen, and Maharey\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221769b53cdddb433ca30562298336df49\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will use the members\u2019 full names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227699d6bc5da44dfcba2fc0c97bd7c504\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014Steve Maharey. They think they can con New Zealanders by taxing them blind on one hand, and giving their own money back to them with the other\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d9a92488124e63a1018786800939f7\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a time delay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022334611eb85ea4978b2143d67d986b3b6\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague points out that there is a time delay. They take the tax today and they give some of it back to them in 2007. This is the greatest con-job ever perpetrated on New Zealanders. It is no wonder the Holmes poll showed that fewer than one in five New Zealanders support this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhat some of those Labour members opposite do not seem to understand is the problem they have created. They are turning hundreds of thousands of working New Zealanders into beneficiaries. Before this package started we already had 194,000 working families whose employers deducted $695 million in PAYE from their pay, of which this Government pays $685 million back to the same families. That already happens right now. The Government takes $695 million in PAYE off 194,000 working families and gives it all back to the same families. That will now be far worse. At the moment 194,000 families are involved in that absolutely crazy churning. Now that the Government is going to impose this Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, at least another 100,000 families will be taxed by the Government on the one hand, then on the other hand the Government will say: \u201CAren\u2019t we wonderful to give some of it back to you later on.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI have to say tonight that I was blown away by the arrogance of Dr Michael Cullen. He said that if the Opposition thought it could deliver this through the tax system, the only way was to give a $40,000 tax-free zone, and that was stupid, as it would mean a huge fiscal cost. Dr Cullen is an intelligent guy, but his arrogance is such that it is blinding him. He might be a Commonwealth scholar but he is not the only one in this Parliament. The low-income working families of New Zealand deserve help and they deserve support. National would deliver that to them without turning them into beneficiaries. If Labour members had half a brain they would see that tinkering with the system is not the way to fix it up. There are far better ways to deliver to low-income people than this con job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1cfeb7d87cd47299bfe6f63d76c9cde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1cfeb7d87cd47299bfe6f63d76c9cde\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E I can understand the member becoming slightly hysterical during his 5-minute presentation this evening, because it must be quite distressing if one is required as an Opposition member to explain to the House and, indeed, the country, what the Opposition has against hard-working families in New Zealand getting the financial support they deserve. I cannot understand the Opposition. I cannot understand what Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith has against hard-working families in New Zealand, and I sympathise with him for being required to stand in this House and oppose the legislation. That is why I understand that he had to become hysterical in order to get up enough passion to oppose something that nobody in his or her right mind could possibly oppose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EFirst of all I want to thank the Minister responsible for this bill, Steve Maharey, for his vision of social development in our country, for his commitment to working that vision into the reality of this legislation, and for his sheer hard work in ensuring the legislation is introduced tonight. I also give credit to the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister for leading this major investment in social development and in our families. They deserve it. They have probably been waiting for too long, but we have delivered in a way that is affordable and sustainable, and they deserve this legislation to be passed and progressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI also thank and acknowledge the officials who have worked tirelessly to ensure that the detail of this legislation has the attention paid to it that it deserves so that we can progress it now and give our families the respect they deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI have known for a long time that both Richard Prebble and Maurice Williamson are, frankly, poll-driven fruitcakes. I understand that. Everyone accepts it as a fact. Richard Prebble and Maurice Williamson have always been warmly regarded as poll-driven fruitcakes. They do not have any principles, they do not have any values, they do not have any vision, they do not have any commitment, and now they are totally relying on the Holmes show to elevate their blood pressure to a level at which they have both been able to participate in the House tonight. It was extraordinary to hear both of them speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230db4270de054b89818291187dd30e9e\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What happened on the Holmes show?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb88e4867d6849eaa5107ddb27cd272b\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not rely on any poll for my principles and my values. I never have and I never will. I know that working families in New Zealand deserve our support, and I know that, underneath it all, so does Mr Williamson know that, but it is his job as an Opposition MP to come along here and scrape whatever barrel he can find the bottom of in order to oppose it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe National Party\u2019s policy is to oppose this bill. It opposes making work pay for parents who move off benefits into work. National members oppose that. They think that parents who move off benefits into work should not receive any financial recognition for that. They oppose increasing family income to address issues of income inadequacy. Why would they oppose that? Exactly. There is silence. There is no good reason at all. They oppose addressing accommodation affordability by responding to the increased cost of housing. Why would they oppose that? Exactly. There is no good reason at all. They oppose making childcare assistance an integral part of our social security system, in recognition of its importance to families. Why would they oppose ensuring that childcare assistance was more accessible and affordable to families in New Zealand? There is no reason at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThey oppose simplifying the social security system. There is no logic in their opposition. There are no principles or values in their opposition. There is certainly no vision or commitment at all to any alternative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis bill recognises that low and middle income earning families in New Zealand work hard and that we should give them more support, not less. The National Party and ACT policies state that we should not support those families with better childcare assistance, we should not support them with better accommodation support, and we should not look at family incomes to address inadequacies. That is what those parties say. They do not care about hard-working low to middle income families. I imagine that when one is earning well over $120,000\u2014or $1 million, as the previous speaker acknowledged he was earning\u2014it is a bit hard to imagine how a two-income family can survive on $30,000 a year. It is hard for them to imagine how that family has to choose between the dentist and buying a new pair of shoes. That is what a number of low and middle income working families in New Zealand have to decide, week after week, and some have to go to a food bank or to Work and Income New Zealand to get special assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThat is the real world of working families in New Zealand. That is the issue that this bill is addressing, and it is the issue about which the National Party is saying: \u201CWe don\u2019t care about them. We don\u2019t think they deserve to get more support. We would have this bill gone by lunchtime.\u201D So the National Party would reverse the changes. If National were ever the Government, and if it were a particularly busy morning in the House, it would have this legislation reversed by lunchtime. Then it would give tax cuts to people in this House\u2014to people earning well over three times what people who are supported by this legislation are earning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f1b038297e4f76a3d862af95123a37\u0022\u003EHon Matt Robson\u003C/span\u003E: John Key needs a tax cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc2366fd0d54fe4ab674e2e353c05c8\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think John Key earns a tax cut every day of the week\u2014not. He does not deserve a tax cut. He does not deserve any financial support in comparison with the people who are getting support through this bill. Of course we would love to give everyone in New Zealand a tax cut, but if it comes to priorities and what is more important in terms of driving our economy and assisting people who have income inadequacy, that is the area of support that should take priority. Tax cuts to people who do not need them, versus direct financial support to low and middle income working families, just do not stand up at all. People who earn less in a year than those members opposite spend over a weekend are being denied that financial support by their opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E There is no logic to it. It is not even ideological. John Key can keep enjoying himself, laughing at his own opposition to this, but we do still have families in New Zealand that have to make the sorts of choices I mentioned. They have to think about whether they can afford to take their middle child or their youngest child to the dentist, whether they can afford to buy a pair of new shoes, or whether they can afford to buy gumboots to go out on the farm on the weekend and visit the farms of some of the members opposite. They do not own the farms, but they might be able to visit them, collect the eggs, and work part-time for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI want to draw the attention of the House to one particular aspect of the bill that relates to invalid beneficiaries. It is on page 11 of the explanatory note. People on invalids benefits in New Zealand\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd3f653370e4f5691a66b9514c3bc4b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. Can I just say, regarding interjections, that the rules permitting interjections are predicated on the assumption that the person being interjected on has the call. Interjections are not permitted at all when they are directed at a member who does not have the call. It is happening too often and too frequently. Please show some courtesy to the member speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba35ab77ff454a1e95745390f6f582a4\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: We have a number of people on invalids benefits in New Zealand. They are on invalids benefits because they are not able to work for 15 hours a week or more. Our social security system has lost touch with advanced technology, with growing expectations, and with growing demand from people with disabilities in New Zealand, who now know they have a right to support and a right to employment. Our benefit system in the past has denied them that, and in fact has offered financial disincentives for people on invalids benefits to work. This bill fixes that problem. This is a major and positive step forward for people on invalids benefits, who previously have said: \u201CHow can I work? I will be financially worse off if I do.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI want particularly to congratulate the Minister on this initiative for thousands of people around New Zealand who are on invalids benefits. This says to them: \u201COur future contribution in the paid workforce will not only be literally valued but it will be financially recognised, as well.\u201D I know that many people will be wanting to take advantage of this change. This bill is designed for people on invalids benefits, for people on sickness benefits, for people on other benefits, and for our low to middle income working families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe National Party and the ACT party can oppose it as much as they like. They do not represent working families in New Zealand. They do not speak in this House for working families in New Zealand. They deny them the financial recognition and support they deserve. It is those people who deserve a voice in this Parliament, and who deserve the financial support that our situation can afford to offer them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d6141255ac91447497d7016d0dbcde4c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 82\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 8; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 29\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 24; ACT New Zealand 4; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b590aa677ee42fe9ce12e494a8387b6\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002243a82f39dac14e478df80eea0993751f\u0022\u003EMessages from Governor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000545\u0022\u003EMr Speaker read to the House a message from the Governor-General recommending an appropriation for the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7e1f4746b8341f6a6ad8ebd9c71b0f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7e1f4746b8341f6a6ad8ebd9c71b0f1\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. How can this bill be appropriated when we have not even had the vote? We still have the second reading, the Committee stage, and the third reading to come. I seek your guidance. It might be that we do not pass this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268756163789d41358ee633ab40e349e6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: It is my understanding that the Governor-General has to make the recommendation before the bill is passed, and that is the reason why it has been done as it has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2429e7a9e7448eaa3551c6affdb3093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2429e7a9e7448eaa3551c6affdb3093\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is Parliament. It is not the play place of the Governor-General, and it is not the place for a Government just to ride roughshod over the process that occurs here. I wonder whether you might be able to tell us of another recent occasion where the moneys for a purpose were appropriated immediately after a bill\u2019s first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b12c2756c104caaaa2def953aa026a5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The money is not appropriated at this stage. It is recommended, and it always has been that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229e2f002d39664dc7a5cd4db75ebf3dd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e2f002d39664dc7a5cd4db75ebf3dd9\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I cannot recall an occasion after a first reading when the first thing the Speaker did was to stand up and say: \u201CI have a message from the Governor-General.\u201D The Governor-General must, of course, have extremely fleet feet if she was able to get that message to the Chair in such a short period of time. Leaving that aside, I cannot recall a time when such a recommendation has been made so quickly. It makes a complete mockery of the whole process that is occurring this evening. The Government has said: \u201CHere is our centrepiece of legislation, and we want the nation to know what it\u2019s all about. We want to clear up some of the clear misconceptions that people must have got when they voted in the Holmes poll this evening.\u201D However, it would seem that the Government has organised for the Governor-General to send down her recommendation, on the basis that it does not matter what Parliament might conclude as the bill will be funded anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b06cf2ad54a41d490f729896d8e55de\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just inform the House that the Governor-General always makes a recommendation before the passing of a bill, and the Government can procure a message at any time. This is perfectly normal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002208e41b9d795e43338f2c559e7824eb7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208e41b9d795e43338f2c559e7824eb7a\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you could tell us at what time today the Government sent the message to Dame Silvia Cartwright, telling her that she needed to make this recommendation. The House only started working on this bill at 5 o\u2019clock today. Certainly a few hours have since passed, but it seems rather unacceptable that the Governor-General should be making a recommendation to the House about 30 seconds after the bill has passed its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d555cc181df42c898a22da94399da91\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for his contribution, and say that it is only a recommendation. At what time the Government makes a decision with the Governor-General is a matter for the Government. The House can always reject the bill. At what time the Government receives the message is no business of the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb7b65db3876446594edf01327b7a6ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb7b65db3876446594edf01327b7a6ab\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Can you tell us whether it is usual for this to happen\u2014firstly, that the recommendation is announced to the House immediately after the passing of a first reading; and secondly, can you tell us why the House has to know this, if in fact it is only a recommendation that does not have to be listened to? Are we now in the position where we can debate the Governor-General\u2019s recommendation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b20cd61d08a467b93f0d14b4daff65c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that it is my understanding it has always been done this way. It is perfectly in order. The Constitution Act requires it to be so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7f5de8121ac442394119fe2d70560bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7f5de8121ac442394119fe2d70560bb\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202245b3b5718460a805f1c94278cce2c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already made a ruling. This needs to be something new.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c6821087387429fb5aee40c1530f016\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I want to raise a slightly different issue. In my experience in this Parliament, which does go back some years, this procedure is normal if something is required by midnight tonight, for example, or before Parliament sits tomorrow, and there will be a law change, say, that involves an appropriation. That is obviously where we need that kind of recommendation from the Governor-General. There is no opportunity subsequently for it to occur before expenditure may have to take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhat troubles the Opposition on this occasion is that no expenditure is required for months on this bill we are passing. There is absolutely no requirement whatsoever for any such notice from Her Excellency the Governor-General, and we are curious to know why this should be. In my experience this is somewhat unprecedented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8aa965848fd40cfa931050f6b447f48\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I reiterate what I said before: it is only a recommendation. That is all it is, and the House can always reject the bill. It has been done that way in the past, and will continue to be done that way, because it is part of the Constitution Act that requires it to be done so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002261d7e063576849d091b5012629d3748b\u0022\u003EFuture Directions (Working for Families) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227af2124793c84d1da5b816a43f5c7cc9\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4db7a6de3824e56a8455d9306ef89b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4db7a6de3824e56a8455d9306ef89b3\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill be now read a second time. I have listened with interest during the first part of what passes for a debate. It is a pretty one-sided debate, because this is how it has run so far. Mrs Katherine Rich, having worked her way through the argument about whether she was paid parental leave\u2014whether it was via the paid parental leave provisions or by using her salary\u2014then went on to advance what I think was one argument, which was that we ought to have made tax cuts. If she has a look at what that means, she will see that most of the people who will gain from this package\u2014say, a family on $30,000\u2014simply would not have got anything. In fact, they would have been in a negative position by an across-the-board tax cut. So I hope the National Opposition carries on advancing that argument throughout the rest of this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ENational members have so far told us that they are not voting for in-work payments, families, childcare, and all the things in this package, but they have not told us that they will repeal the legislation. I do invite the next National Party speaker to put on the record, should by some mistake\u2014because I cannot think of any other way it would happen\u2014National become the Government, led no doubt by Peter Brown and New Zealand First I am sure, whether it would repeal the legislation. Let us go to the election knowing very clearly that the National Party position is not only to vote against kids, work, and all the things in this legislation but it would actively stop people getting the money that is in there. Let us hear from the National Party on that. It is the courageous position to take. It is the one Gerry Brownlee would take if he were leader, because there is no subtlety about Gerry Brownlee. He would be up on his feet thumping, and telling us that repeal was the option. I am sure that if he speaks next, he will tell us that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E I was moved by Peter Brown\u2019s speech today. It had sheer clarity, as he led us through the five basic principles that drive the legislation the National Party opposes: making work pay and moving parents off benefits, increasing family incomes, increasing accommodation affordability, increasing childcare assistance, and simplifying the system. As he nobly led us through that, and as the National Party sat next door saying it did not support any of those things, I was moved by his speech, which was later reinforced by Barbara Stewart\u2019s speech that said the same thing and that also made the very telling point\u2014[Interruption] We are worried about poverty on this side of the House, whether or not National is worried. John Key, for example, would not know poverty if he drove past it in the Mercedes. He does not realise, but Barbara Stewart does, that this legislation will reduce poverty by 70 percent\u2014and it will. She said that was why she was voting for it. Simon Power does not want to vote for something that will reduce poverty amongst children in New Zealand, but Barbara Stewart does. Lindsay Tisch does not want to support anything that overcomes poverty, but Barbara Stewart does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26881c1399d425c8a0a12b018bccc62\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just ask you to consider whether the content of the Minister\u2019s speech is appropriate for this debate. There have been numerous personal reflections, which I do not think do him a lot of credit, and it would be unfortunate if the standard of debate in the rest of the evening were to be lowered to a constant toing and froing of what are simply personal reflections as opposed to the merits or otherwise of the bill. We do understand the Government\u2019s embarrassment over this bill, but surely its members could mount some defence of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782a6c196ab04541a9a2be5b0ba597ca\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I thank the honourable member for his contribution. The use of personal reflections, under Standing Order 116, is a matter I have taken into consideration during the course of the speech. Disparaging remarks occur quite frequently in this Parliament, but it is the personal reflection that is out of order. No objection was made by Mr Key, and therefore the robustness of this debate gave me the indication he did not object.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4da1ae06a334e0eb3a226b311ecb9e2\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I always welcome what Sue Bradford has to say. She is a person who has done the hard yards, and she tells us the Greens want to support this bill because they too want to do something about poverty, childcare, and so on. Richard Prebble, not surprisingly, gave the most lucid opposition to this bill\u2014unlike the National Party, which still does not seem to be able to do what the ACT party can do, and actually make its mind up on the issue. The ACT party would vote against it, would repeal it, and does not want to pass it. Basically, that party wants to give massive tax cuts. That is a clear position tonight. United Future will vote for it. Its members said they would vote for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EJohn Key, the pretender to the throne, raised a whole series of points on that side of the Chamber. For example, he asked us why Treasury reports show benefit forecasts still going up. I tell the member that Treasury always has those forecasts going up, and the Government always comes in underneath them. We will carry on doing exactly that into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E The last speaker was Lockwood Smith, whose only major contribution that I could see was to tell us that he used to sing a song called Oh What a Circus, which I suppose was from one of the pantomimes he was in when he was young, and as a music lover I greatly appreciate being reminded of that song by him\u2014but I cannot remember anything else he said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing about all of this is what National members\u2014who are basically the only people with a wavering, quivering position on this bill, suitable to the party, and who honestly do not quite know what to do with it\u2014are voting against. They are voting against housing becoming more affordable in October this year, because the accommodation supplement abatement thresholds will change. They are voting against that, first of all. I want to ask whether the National Party does not want to improve the abatement thresholds, so that people attain more money when they go to work. Does it not do that? Well, we will see. On 4 October this year the subsidy for out-of-school childcare rates will increase. People will get more money for that, and will not have to pay so much. So on 4 October the National Party will not want that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203da675759a3487dabee0b1bcf59a6fe\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Another crap\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3ca3c52170f48abbb57aac1be02e6ce\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Prebble at least says: \u201CNo, I don\u2019t.\u201D all the time, whereas National members all sit there like stunned mullets, saying they really do not know what to do with this bill. It sounds pretty good stuff to them, but they are trying to sit there and pretend they want to vote against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EIn December this year the invalid benefits will change so that more invalids can go to work for over 15 hours, stay in employment, try out whether it works, and gradually work into a job. [Interruption] I ask Mr Brownlee whether he is against that\u2014against the notion that invalid beneficiaries can get into work. National complains all the time about the numbers going up, but it never has a policy about how to reduce them. We have a policy about how to reduce the numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E Does Simon Power want to vote for more invalid beneficiaries to go to work, or is he content to be part of the process of sitting back and just seeing those numbers carry on rising? I ask that member what he reckons. Do we want to say to the Manawatu Evening Standard that Simon Power does not want to see invalid beneficiaries get a chance to go to work and retain more income? He does not want to vote for that. Well, I suggest he try this: on 1 April next year family support benefits, unsupported child benefits, and orphans benefits will all be extended to 260,000 New Zealand families. Now, I ask Mr Brownlee whether we will hear him in the Christchurch Press saying: \u201CI don\u2019t want anyone getting more family support. That is awful. They\u2019re going to be reliant on the State. They\u2019re going to have money coming into their households. I don\u2019t want it.\u201D I am expecting to see that headline in the Christchurch Press next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8ba7dfe82d741ac86f6bd726b128c0d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It may have escaped the Minister\u2019s notice, but the bill actually provides for the repeal of family support later, in the\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a2612d658e34df1b431a3f38c2d417a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. The member is very experienced and he should know better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224306f906298146e3a9d6b057d008c632\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Will Mr Brownlee also have a headline in the Christchurch Press that says: \u201CGrandparents raising grandchildren are not going to get another $15 a week because of the changes in this bill on 1 April next year.\u201D? Is Maurice Williamson intending that the people of Pakuranga will hear from him: \u201CI don\u2019t want to see anybody get that money.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ELet us move on to the accommodation supplement areas. We have increased the amount of the accommodation supplement in places like Nelson, for example. So will Nick Smith now, having insisted time after time to me that the cure for the housing problems of Nelson would be an increase in the accommodation supplement, courageously say in the Nelson newspaper that he no longer wants it? He has argued and pleaded for the Nelson people to have a higher rate of accommodation supplement, and the Government is giving it to them, but Nick Smith\u2014and he can take the next call and tell us what he thinks\u2014will be in the paper saying: \u201CNo thanks, I don\u2019t want that. I didn\u2019t mean that at all. I\u2019m going to vote against an increase in the accommodation supplement for Nelson. I don\u2019t want it.\u201D This is Pythonesque. We will get to the point where, like John Cleese, he is saying: \u201CWhat has the Labour Government ever done for us in Nelson? It has put the accommodation supplement up, it has put the family support up, it has changed things for 260,000 people, but we do not want it. Do not give it to us. We will campaign every time the Labour Government tries to give more money to people.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EJohn Key will drive his Mercedes down to the newspaper offices and ask to be put in the newspaper requesting that on 3 October next year childcare and out-of-school care subsidies are not increased, and that he does not want 28,000 more families getting more money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6dff97aad914da89720eae8a2fb665d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: When?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e859f01d34ae4335802f3d0ee7f37146\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee is so anxious that I want him to start voting against these measure from 1 October this year. I want to see all those courageous people on the other side of this Chamber, who are voting against the legislation, out there saying \u201CNo thanks\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u002258f82166a05d4321bbd9a562a2e69f26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258f82166a05d4321bbd9a562a2e69f26\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E What a very sad time it is for the New Zealand Parliament! I can remember a time about 14 years ago when the \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D was read in this very Chamber. The front row of the Government defending that Budget consisted of the Prime Minister, Jim Bolger, the Deputy Prime Minister, Don McKinnon, and the Minister of Social Welfare, Jenny Shipley. The entire Cabinet sat on the benches; those members were there to defend a Budget that had to be done because the Labour Government that had gone out of office the year before had wrecked the economy, and had left no option. What do we see in the front row tonight? We have Steve Maharey, we have, I hate to say, Matt Robson\u2014I am sorry about that\u2014and I can see Marian Hobbs as well. That is all that is left here defending the absolutely indefensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ETwo or three questions need to be asked. By the way, let us clarify the National Party position, because members want it clarified: we are voting against this legislation. We do not say that we will repeal it; what we say is that we will replace it. We do believe that there needs to be assistance to some people within the community, but what this bill is doing\u2014members talk about Monty Python; this Budget should be called the \u201CPython Budget\u201D\u2014is taking huge sums of money, billions of dollars, from ordinary, working New Zealanders to make a surplus, and Michael Cullen somehow gloats that he is a great Minister because he has taken so much money off ordinary New Zealanders. I do not think that is anything to gloat about, or even to start to gloat about. Then he says that in a couple of years\u2019 time\u2014after the next election, that is\u2014he will give some, actually quite a small sum, of it back to a certain group of people who could be classified as predominantly, but not solely, Labour Party voters. That is why the poll tonight on Holmes showed that for every one person that loves it, four hate it. That is 20 percent in favour, which is about where the Labour Party is polling at present as far as I can remember. Twenty percent love it and 80 percent hate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI got really scared yesterday when I saw the panic that set in when Labour realised that the last Colmar Brunton poll on Sunday night showed it was dropping even further in public opinion and falling behind. We had this enormous announcement that anyone who wants a hip replacement or knee surgery can have it. I hoped that Labour would not drop any further in the polls, or it would become compulsory to get a hip replacement and have one\u2019s knees done. It was the most desperate move of a Government that is in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EAnd what is this measure? This is the exact same move. This is not an attempt to relieve the burden on ordinary, middle-class New Zealanders. No, this is saying, \u201CWhy don\u2019t we tax the hell out of all New Zealanders as hard as we can, then put some crumbs back on the table of one in five families?\u201D. For that reason alone the National Party, I am proud to say, will both vote against this bill and, when the new National Government is elected next year\u2014and from the way it is going, if Labour keeps falling like it is, it will be a majority, sole National Government, which will not even need to look at coalitions, because that is how bad that lot is\u2014replace it with a properly targeted package of assistance for those hard-working, middle-income families who have been beaten around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ESo what do the Labour Party members do tonight? They try to personalise this by referring to some of us. I admit that every one of us in Parliament is at the high end of income earners, but that is not what we are talking about here tonight. No one is talking about giving tax breaks to people earning over $100,000, which includes every one of us in this House. [Interruption] Exactly. There are a couple of questions that I still have not heard an answer to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225abf4a2010944a6d9b508d6238802f04\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The outrage from the other side of the House is completely unacceptable. It comes from a certain sector that tonight has been very vocal. I ask that you direct that member in particular, the senior Labour whip, to tone down her comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a776c512824445eaa9af22e73bd6158\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think there has been a fair bit of cross-interjection. I think it does need to be toned down a bit so that the speaker can be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222b268e721d7416c90b133429c04ba4d\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am very, very comfortable with Labour\u2019s opposition tonight, because I have never seen such a limp-wristed, hopeless, pathetic attempt to justify something. On the night of the Budget, those benches should be packed and those members should be crowing about what they have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EBut there are a couple of things I want some answers to, and I think this is really important. I think New Zealanders will see this Budget for what it is by this one issue alone: every time I have been in this Parliament under urgency on a Budget night, it was to pass legislation that affected people as of midnight that night. That is why we go into urgency. The clock stops, we stay on today\u2019s date, and we do that because we are making changes to the tax system\u2014we are making changes to petrol tax, we are making changes to benefit schemes\u2014as of midnight. My question is, and I have heard it asked many times so far, whether this bill changes anything as of midnight tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06185f7bd394158861c1d3a9291903d\u0022\u003EOpposition Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea96dea3f7494b9ba05637355f3982e7\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: All right, that is clear. The answer is no. So do the changes happen tomorrow? No. In the weekend? No. In a week\u2019s time? No. It does not have any impact until October. This bill could have been done in the normal time frame that every other bill is done in. So why would the Government call urgency? Because it thought that it had this neat momentum, that it was on a roll with the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227506d22894c4b18bcd8f6d646e6e534\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What did the Holmes show say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229222b3ee1108478db171e54d45abc883\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Carter should not feed me these lines; it is too good to miss. What I loved tonight is that this poll was from the television channel that is charter-funded. We are talking about the \u201Cbean-sprouts and batik brigade\u201D channel, the \u201Csandal-wearers and kaftan-wearers\u201D channel\u2014Television One. Hardly a Tory would watch Television One, the State channel. And what did the poll show? I have heard this Labour Government often refer to Holmes polls, saying, for instance: \u201CWe saw on the Holmes poll last night that the Government is moving in the right direction.\u201D In the first 3 years, to give those members some credit, it was pretty hard to lay a glove on them. But tonight, when that Holmes poll showed that only one in every five New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eca21a58ffb43da96fb988c1ecdba43\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ff0bbde01324eacae349ff657463bc9\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right\u2014one in every five. Guess what? It is an incredible coincidence. Members should guess what the coincidence is, and see whether they can spot it. This Budget favours one in every five families, and the vote tonight in New Zealand was that one in every five supports it. I tell this Government that at the next election it will get one in every five votes. In fact, I think it will be lucky to get that, because a few will bail out on the way. But to be fair\u2014[Interruption] That is right\u2014one in every five votes. That is what the Government will get, because this is a cynical move and it is seen by the public as a cynical move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ELet us get this very clear: this is not giving people anything. What it is doing is letting them have back a small amount of what was taken from them in the first place. Anyone can be a Robin Hood. Anyone can rip money off people, then say: \u201CGuess what, I\u2019m going to be kind. I\u2019ll give you back a bit.\u201D We accept there needs to be a targeted assistance programme, we accept the focus needs to be on getting people back into work, but we think this is the biggest miscue that has ever been made\u2014and so does that Government, because if it thought it was right, we would see that front bench riddled with all its senior Ministers. They would all be taking the call and defending it, but they cannot defend the indefensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EMy last question to those members is this: if this is such a great scheme, how come 5 years have gone by\u20145 whole years\u2014and they ask whether the National Party would repeal it? It is just a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a81cb542e2d448f196162683df58c9b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a81cb542e2d448f196162683df58c9b9\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E After that lamentable effort from that senior member on the furthest back Opposition back bench, I say bring back Bill English. One can now see that he had great judgment. He had the judgment to send that member to the furthest back seat of the back bench that he could imagine. Members can see why\u201410 minutes of wasted time in this House, and not once did he dare to address the bill. I guess that is because the Government used words with more than four letters in it, so he cannot understand what it says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis is a bill New Zealand will welcome, and the National Party will regret because those members could never have thought of it. That is because it is good news for every honest, hard-working family in New Zealand, and that party would not even know what that was. Regarding that last effort, for that speaker to have spoken it with a straight face he would need to be a contortionist. This is a bill that brings the family centre stage. [Interruption] I have just had a jury verdict that says: \u201CEleven for, one against (National). We\u2019ll have another ham sandwich, thank you.\u201D This bill brings the family centre stage in the New Zealand economy and social setting. That is a new idea for National, is it not? Fancy those members putting families at centre stage, instead of the tax break for the wealthy! This bill should be named the \u201CWorking for Families Bill\u201D. Well, what is it named? It is named the \u201DFuture Directions (Working for Families) Bill\u201D. How ironic that a bill that does so much for so many people, and that makes this country get on to its feet again, is named the \u201CFuture Directions (Working for Families) Bill\u201D. No wonder the last speaker did not bother to read it. No wonder we have allowed him until October to read and understand it. On 1 October that member will come grovelling to these benches, and he will be the last speaker, saying: \u201COh, I wish I\u2019d read that bill before I wasted 10 minutes of this country\u2019s time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI want to talk about a great electorate that has working families\u2014unlike the electorate of the last speaker, whose constituents sip lattes and send out overdue-mortgage notices. Napier is an electorate of working families. This is a good bill for the Napier electorate, because it is an electorate of working families. The suburbs of Bay View, Ahuriri, M\u0101rewa, Onekawa, Maraenui, Greenmeadows, and Taradale are family suburbs. [Interruption] I say to Mr Brownlee that a family is that special thing we have in New Zealand that has a mum and a dad and kids. Mum and dad love each other, they love their kids, and the kids return it. That member may not know much about that, but he should listen to this debate, and he will have his eyes opened\u2014and keep other things zipped up. There are suburbs with the real stars, and with their share of families on benefits\u2014M\u0101rewa, Bay View, Onekawa, Maraenui, Greenmeadows, and Taradale\u2014and moving those families from the benefit to the workforce is one of the best things we can do for the suburbs of Napier. Before today, and before 1 October, it has been a hurdle to get off a benefit, no matter how much it was screwed down by the previous Government, because moving from the benefit to a wage often meant a drop in income\u2014but no longer, because henceforth one is encouraged to work. One is encouraged to get off the benefit and get into a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EAnd we can offer jobs. For the next 4 years or so, experts greater than the members opposite could even imagine predict that the unemployment rate will be below 5 percent, which means our families will have income earners. The intent is to get them off the benefit, which is not understood by the intellects on the other side of the House. We will move to an economy that is sound. So this bill is good news for New Zealand, good news for the suburbs of Napier, and good news for Napier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022144b3b937bcb40789ae540719a5bf9c7\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Get out of making excuses for criminal behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221b911458df74fa4bc382adde79e1a70\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking about criminal behaviour, I think the previous speaker would know about that. Anyone who has studied it, both close up and far distant, would know that most criminal offending comes from those who are in poverty. That is well documented. Those people know there is a correlation between families under financial stress and family dysfunction. That is well known to those who bother to meet with families. The correlation between child health and poverty has been glaringly obvious to all but those who talk about tax cuts for the rich. We cannot ignore that correlation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis bill increases family income. We recognise that family income inadequacy has a significant impact on the welfare of our society. This bill addresses that issue by lifting the levels of family income, so that families can move forward. Families in Napier who are endeavouring to survive can now lift their heads. The electorate that I represent will march forward from tomorrow morning. The workers in its suburbs can go off to their workplaces knowing that this bill places the family in the centre of our consideration. This is a bill for children. It is a bill that lifts the place of children, so that they can have families who care and love for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003ESo I recommend this bill to the House. I endorse this bill, and I wait to hear one single argument from the members opposite as to why this bill is wrong\u2014an argument from ex-bankers, ex-lawyers, ex-accountants, ex - money-sellers. I want to hear what they have to say about it. This is a bill that is working for New Zealand and working for families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022644d585df4d94443b108fe5fddbff956\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022644d585df4d94443b108fe5fddbff956\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E This bill addresses some serious issues. Right now, as we speak, there are some New Zealanders and New Zealand families suffering, and they need some financial help. New Zealand First is prepared to support that and help them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EBut we have found two errors in the bill already. The first is in clause 2, \u201CCommencement\u201D. It is obviously a mistake for it to state that the bill will be brought in in 2005, so we will put an amendment, in my name, to delete this clause. [Interruption] No, I am warning that we are going to put one in. I hope the National Party will support it, because it is a quite serious issue. If the Government is bringing in, under urgency, a bill like this to give financial assistance to families, then, clearly, it would want it to happen immediately. It has made a dreadful mistake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225279faffd06c45aba8acef0578d2d3e1\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Having a bit of a change, are you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240707ce32dcd4482bbdf81473e92fa4d\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are simply making a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288fda27d12eb496988e2337027b41653\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: He listened to my speech where I pointed out the mistakes, and he\u2019s changing things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7d0d49499a4a01ae7f7868efab8473\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I am saying now that we will move an amendment, and if the member is at all sincere, then he will support it. We propose to omit clause 2 and substitute: \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D It is as simple as that. In other words, if members are to sit here until 10 o\u2019clock tonight and all day tomorrow in urgency, we might as well do it for some immediate effect\u2014not for something for the year 2005. I think the National Party has suddenly realised there is some merit, when we are in urgency, in doing something positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c021af2989d41489f5d57e0e6fb0136\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: We just might think about this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe7a2b5cb31143b584038c453e5164ed\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to think about it. It is all very well our rowing about this thing, but there are people out there suffering now. [Interruption] Oh, I am coming to the doormats. Is the member talking about these doormats, or those doormats? There are so many doormats around that I am not sure which one the member means. We are coming to the doormats, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225265aab895d64c93b9b824737f7ea1c7\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the difference between a doormat and a laptop?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f496b9ba0ce247fb9555282ab6dfba01\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: That is too technical for me. I am just a simple sailor. We will move an amendment, and I hope members will support it. Clearly, the Government will, because if it wants to help people, it will want that help to take immediate effect. I am hoping United Future will, but one never can tell. We will move another amendment, too, because I was told that Larry Baldock, on behalf of United Future, went on Radio Rhema yesterday, the Christian radio station\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a81c8e597444d4beb1c73081e34e69\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: And the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233cc9c350d2a4dc8aa32afe823ee2d37\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: No, he was with our young guy, Craig McNair. I told Craig McNair not to be too vicious\u2014to take it easy. Larry Baldock said there was much merit in the definition of \u201Cfamily\u201D in Craig McNair\u2019s Commission for the Family Bill and that, had we previously put it up in the House, his party would have supported it. Craig McNair pointed out that we had done that. So we will add the definition of \u201Cfamily\u201D from that bill: \u201CA family is defined as a family group, including an extended family (a) in which there is at least one adult member; and (b) in which the members have a biological or legal relationship.\u201D [Interruption] The title is the \u201CFuture Directions (Working for Families) Bill\u201D. We think it only appropriate that a proper definition of the family should be in the bill. Unless members want to accept the liberal definition currently in the Families Commission Act, which I cannot readily find\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d481f7171c8426083375c594e14df31\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Just make it up!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cae8aea3bf4243dcb7c34e616f8b1ece\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I should just make it up. The definition in that Act is very liberal. I have given the United Future members the opportunity to put their money where their mouth was yesterday on Radio Rhema. Surely Larry Baldock would not tell Radio Rhema one thing, and then, when there is an amendment to have an appropriate definition of \u201Cfamily\u201D in this bill, vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e37dc1e7ed452da89e0d46166d2753\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Of course he would!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022176b4ecb85ae4f7ba467ea0a124ab7a6\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: He would not. He is a man of honour. We are all honourable people here. We do not go on Radio Rhema and tell porkies, do we? Never! I know that the National Party will give me hell because I am bailing the Government out. I am giving it the chance to get this bill right and have it come in on the right date, which is after it receives the royal assent. I know that the Government will take that seriously, and I know that Larry Baldock would not dare say one thing on Radio Rhema then vote against it in the House. That would be a mortal sin, would it not? I would have thought it would be terrible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edcff55989814186840a4cea1e74addb\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Who is Craig McNair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f95f2c7f4c54316aa518df79b635ecb\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: He is the youngest, most enterprising MP in this Parliament. He is one of the most sincere people members will ever be privileged to meet, but Mr Power does not keep that sort of company, does he? I do; it rubs off on me. I meet all these sincere people, and there is none more sincere than Craig McNair. Whilst we are talking about him, I was proud to sit in this seat when he took on the whole House the other day on the Commission for the Family Bill. I have never felt prouder. I have felt pretty proud listening to Winston Peters, but when that young guy spoke and took on the House on his own, I felt really proud to be part of his team. That is who Craig McNair is. I tell members that he is very much up-and-coming. That is enough about Craig McNair; I will get back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe want this bill to come into immediate effect. We support it, but we want it to come in immediately, and we will be moving amendments in the Committee stage accordingly. We know there are people out there who are hurting. We know that this bill will be of some assistance to them. The aims in this bill are worthwhile. As I say, we looked through it and found two errors, and no doubt we will find a few more. [Interruption] The second one was the definition of the family. Even Mr Williamson would agree that the definition in the Families Commission Act is not adequate. We are talking about the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d525ecdbbb84f70941094d1b1f8b17c\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: The Mafia would qualify, wouldn\u2019t it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221ec9aa811ee475c819a5c109a52b4e3\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: It just misses including a gang as a family, but two prostitutes living with their pimp would be a family under the definition in the Families Commission Act. We cannot have that in this bill, so we will put up an amendment to reflect that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI finish by saying there are some good aims in the bill. It deals with payment of funeral grants where there is a surviving spouse or children, children\u2019s funeral grants, accommodation supplements, disability allowances, and all the social security payments in schedule 2. Well, they should come in immediately. I think Mr Maharey is nodding there. We will bail the Government out and give it a chance to get it right. We told it earlier on: \u201CDo it once and do it right.\u201D, and this is its opportunity. We will be studying this bill as it goes through the Committee stage, and amending other sections as we find fault. I hope we do not find too many, but there are two, for a start. My throat is getting sore, so I will conclude by saying that we support this bill and we will be moving two amendments, at least, when we get to the Committee stage. Hopefully, there will not be too many more, but we will be advising members accordingly. We look forward to the unanimous support of all parties. Members should have a little bit of compassion. If the bill is to pass, let us get it right. Let us get the date right; let it apply urgently\u2014when it gets royal assent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u00223ece0f0b97424f858a6fae9773f4673f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ece0f0b97424f858a6fae9773f4673f\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take a relatively brief call on the second reading of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill to raise a few issues in particular before we go into the Committee stage. My first concern is related to the proposal that appears to replace the special benefit with a new measure called temporary additional support. It looks as though the current discretionary regime will be replaced by a rules-based system operating through regulation. That takes some of us who have been around for a while back to the ill-fated attempt by National to do the same thing with its social welfare reform legislation in the mid-1990s. That bill met with massive opposition from beneficiary advocacy groups and community social services organisations generally, and eventually even the Nats backed down on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIt is very difficult to regulate for the totality of human existence, and, if a regulatory regime is introduced, there will always be people who fall through the cracks. Because the special benefit is a benefit of last resort, that leaves no assistance available for those whose circumstances just happen to fall outside those that are contemplated by the officials who are drafting the regulations. No matter how well intentioned this Government might be\u2014and overall I believe it is, with this bill\u2014I still think it is dangerous to do away with the discretion around the special benefit. Beneficiary advocates have lobbied hard over the last few years, as I am sure the Minister is all too well aware, to persuade the Ministry of Social Development to hang on to discretion and to train its staff to exercise it properly. It is a great pity that it appears we are to lose that, unless other things happen first, like the lifting of benefits to levels that mean there will be much less need for third-tier assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIn a similar vein, it is also of concern that the temporary additional support being proposed, presumably by regulation also, will be capped at 30 percent of the main benefit. That takes no account of the fact that the exigencies of human existence are infinite, and that at times people can find themselves in extraordinarily difficult circumstances through no fault of their own. While I accept totally that the State cannot and should not ever be expected to automatically be capable of picking up all the pieces of people\u2019s lives, I believe that, ideally, Work and Income staff should retain the ability to make fair judgment calls based on the realities of the situation, rather than being completely constrained by regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, taking a longer-term perspective, the Green Party would in the end prefer to see the need for third-tier benefits done away with altogether; but that is dependent on the total reform of the welfare system, a bullet Labour is not yet prepared to bite, as the Budget and this bill make very clear. We look forward to the day when the Social Security Act of 1964 will be thrown out completely by a Government that is willing to start over with an income support framework based on principles of sufficiency, simplicity, and universality. Meanwhile, it is no good getting rid of third-tier assistance while benefits are still too low for people to live on, and it is no good working towards universality if what that means is basic levels are reduced to the lowest common denominator; for example, limiting everyone to the rate of the unemployment benefit. I am grateful that the Labour Government has not headed down that particular path with this bill, and that Labour is evidently committed to making sure no one will lose as the different stages of the legislation are gradually implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe second area I will quickly touch on is the question of how the package does and does not affect beneficiaries who do not have dependent children. Apart from increases in the accommodation supplement, which will apply in a highly variable fashion, according to circumstance, beneficiaries in this category face an uncertain future, especially with the eventual loss of the special benefit, as well. For example, the Wellington People\u2019s Resource Centre believes that a single person with severe disability and low-housing costs could well end up worse off as a result of those initiatives. I would be interested in the Government\u2019s response to that, given its assurance that no one will lose out as a result of the changes announced today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EMy fear is for single beneficiaries with high needs, but low living costs, which is a situation for many people in this and other cities. At the same time I also recognise that the benefit system, with all of its layers, and its some 35 different forms of assistance, continues to be used really as a way to subsidise the inadequacies of a health system that often does not treat people well or in time, whether they have physical or mental health problems. The Green Party applauds the Budget gift of more money for joint operations, but this does not solve the much deeper crisis embodied by the fate of tens of thousands of people on a sickness benefit or invalids benefit who are simply not well enough to work, but would love to do so if they could regain their health sufficiently to be able to take on employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EFinally, I reiterate some frustration on the part of the Green Party\u2014and I have heard this shared by other members in the House tonight\u2014that substantial increases in support for families will take so long to roll out. The people this bill is aimed at helping\u2014low to medium income families\u2014need support now, not later. It would have been great if Dr Cullen could have seen his way clear to using some of his windfall to put a little more than $170 million into this package for the 2004-05 year. I know that a billion dollars, or even $500 million, for this year would have looked uncomfortably like a serious election bribe, but, in fact, that is what the 30 percent of the country\u2019s children who live in poverty need now and not later, if it is to be done at all. This legislation and the family directions package are to be welcomed for the enormous step they make towards restoring a greater degree of equity in our society. I am just sorry that we could not have done it a little more quickly and with less discrimination against beneficiaries and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022 data-id=\u002273f2aa6dcbba48a9b710a7707878e914\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273f2aa6dcbba48a9b710a7707878e914\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen something today that I have never seen before, either in this House or outside it. I saw two grey-haired gentlemen stand up for the Government. I saw two sugar daddies. We all know what a sugar daddy is. He is somebody who accumulates wealth in order to receive favours when he dishes it out a little later. Both Dr Cullen and Steve Maharey epitomise the sugar daddies of this Government. Often members of the ACT party are criticised as people who advocate for the rich and who do not understand what it is like to be poor. I am delighted to be an advocate for the rich. I have been a beneficiary. I have been to the public trough and dined there for years. Then my colleague Mr Prebble took away my supplementary minimum prices and I was no longer a beneficiary. I had to learn to stand on my feet, and do members know what happened? The farming and rural industry has thrived to the extent that this Government has not even mentioned it either in this bill or the Budget. That is what happens when people are taken out of dependency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EMembers of this Government probably will not understand that, but there are some really frightening statistics that I want to touch on this evening. In 1970, 27 working people supported one person on some form of Government support. That was a ratio of 27:1 in 1970. Thirty years later the ratio has gone down to four working people supporting one person who is on some form of Government support. My question this evening is: where will we be in a couple of years? Where will the ratio be? Will this Government be happy when the ratio is 1:1?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af9f177b0de4bb8b5ba2843198d4469\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Look over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d533493ecc0d44cdace03ec817dc845b\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I ask Government members to face me and answer my question. Will they be happy when the ratio is one productive person\u2014one working person\u2014to one beneficiary? That is the direction in which that package and this Budget are taking us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EOne thing I want to say about the Minister of Finance this evening is that he is a man of his word. I shall read to members this evening the words of the Minister of Finance in his maiden speech: \u201CI am proud of the fact that my secondary education was not paid for by the taxpayers of New Zealand, but by the farmers of Canterbury and Hawke\u2019s Bay. I ripped them off for 5 years then, and I shall get stuck into them again in the next few years.\u201D I have to say that the honourable member has kept his word. He is getting stuck into the lucky ones who have some form of discretionary income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EI have heard members of the Government, United Future, and the Greens say that they do not mind paying tax. They think it is appropriate that those on a reasonable income\u2014a back-bencher\u2019s or Cabinet Minister\u2019s income\u2014should pay tax and more tax. I invite members of the Greens, United Future, and the Government to open their wallets, or to take their chequebooks out of their pockets or wherever, and write a cheque for the consolidated account right now. If they enjoy paying tax and want to pay more, nobody on this side of the House will stop them. I shall pause for a moment and look around the Government, the Greens, and United Future to see how many of those members are prepared to write out a cheque. I do not see any. Lianne Dalziel is writing out a cheque. How the mighty have fallen. It will bounce. I want a cheque that will work. That is one of the great problems we face in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EThe Government purports to understand the less well off and the poor in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022108c7a513c9e4fa594925d16b820d4a3\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: In an academic sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c284bfa0584ae499690156dad23d03\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly right. Mr Prebble has stolen my thunder. The Prime Minister and Dr Cullen have studied poor people. They went to university and studied the less well off. They have read books about the poor and those who are on some form of Government assistance. That is the extent of the Government\u2019s understanding of those at the bottom, or near to the bottom, of the socio-economic scale. What is so frustrating for the public of this country\u2014and it is frustrating\u2014is that this Government wants to patronise them forever. They do not want patronage from this Government. They want opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EEssentially, this Government is robbing Peter to pay Paul\u2014the old adage\u2014but it even has a twist on that one. It is robbing Peter to pay Peter. It is taking money away from the earners and putting it through the Government coffers. We economists call it the churn factor, or transaction costs. The Government is taking the money away from Peter, churning it through the Government system, taking off at least 20 percent, then deciding who it will give it back to at some later stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EThe Holmes poll tonight showed very clearly that people have had absolutely enough. When people were asked to vote on whether this Budget did it for them, 8,400 said no and a mere 1,800 said yes. They probably got a free phone call from the Government. But that result is quite astounding. Here we have the Government\u2019s flagship. Today was the great launch of the Government\u2019s flagship. This is how it is going to win the next election, but 8,400 were agin it and a mere 1,800 were in favour. It is quite extraordinary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EVery clearly this Government is in a desperate situation. This bill is a desperate measure driven by desperate people. The truly desperate people in this country are people like Marilynn McLachlan and Tony Gilbert, who were featured in the Sunday Star-Times a few weeks ago. They are the desperate people with four children who cannot make ends meet under 5 years of this Government. It is only a year ago that the Government said that if people earned $55,000 a year then they were rich. The Government has now turned around 1 year later and said: \u201COh, gosh, we got it wrong. I\u2019m sorry folks. We\u2019re going to have to take your money away from you again and give you a bit back after we filter it through our own processes. Once we take off for ourselves whatever it is we want, we\u2019ll give you a little bit back.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EI would have thought\u2014and I think that Mr Brown\u2019s amendment is a good one\u2014that it should be immediate. If the Government is so concerned about the less well off, then it will be immediate. The truth is is that it will be October, then April, and then 2007. Such is the Government\u2019s concern about the less well off it is saying: \u201CWait 2 years. Wait until after the next election and then we will give you some of your own resources back.\u201D That is an outrageous situation. The members of the public who rang the Holmes show this evening clearly understood the largesse of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u002223e48338479b452a99e60991560898b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223e48338479b452a99e60991560898b3\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with pleasure on behalf of United Future to speak to the second reading of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. I begin by commending the Minister, Steve Maharey, and many of the staff behind him who have worked very hard on this legislation and on this package, which will make a difference to families in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003ESo far this debate has lacked some of the seriousness it deserves. Some members have surely made comments that they could only be joking about. As the well-known saying says: \u201CIt would be funny if it wasn\u2019t so serious.\u201D Families have been forgotten year after year in New Zealand. It has become harder and harder to face the costs of raising children. Our free education system has somehow become more and more expensive, with uniforms, camp costs, school donations, etc., which are things only parents know and understand about. Those costs are borne every year by parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThis bill is called the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, which begs the question of who has been working for families over the past 20 years since 1984. Who has been sticking up for families in this Chamber over the last 20 years? We in United Future are very happy to know that the launching of the Families Commission, which will begin to advocate for families in New Zealand, is only weeks away. We can only reflect on what a difference there would have been in the last 20 years if there had been a Families Commission during the 1980s and the 1990s. We would not have had a situation developing like we do today where couples, under more and more stress, are waiting longer and longer to begin to have families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EEarlier tonight the Hon Richard Prebble made the most derogatory statement I have heard for some time. He said the poor would breed more, as though that were a crime. I remind him, and other members of the House, that the United Nations declaration in 1948 stated that every man and woman would have the right to marry and raise a family, and to have an income that would be able to sustain that family. It was not a right given just to the rich. It was a right given to every man and woman in this country and in the world to raise a family and to be able to support that family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI am glad, personally, that the poor do have children. My parents were poor, and I am very glad that they decided to go ahead and have children. Maybe the honourable member Richard Prebble\u2019s parents were poor, also. I do not know. But I am sure many other members in this House had very humble beginnings, and we are glad that their parents had the courage to still go ahead and do one of the greatest things any couple can do in the world\u2014that is, to raise children. So many great men and women whom the world admires have been born into poor families, often number 10 of 13 or number eight of 10. No one should ever talk about the poor breeding like rabbits. It is a disgusting term. I have heard the rumour that the Gilbert-McLachlan family from Waih\u012B are ACT supporters. I cannot understand why they would be. As they look at those four great kids they are trying to raise, I can only imagine how they might feel tonight, knowing that the leader of ACT has said that they are breeding like rabbits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ef1781eaad400c8a70d253ddd5c0a9\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a6db3ddff184e12b4a76e1caec0b760\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK\u003C/span\u003E: He said that poor people would breed more because of this bill. We had better hope that this bill and the Budget today do encourage more couples to take the steps of faith they need to have children and to embark on the greatest adventure and ambition\u2014to be parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EOur future as a nation is dependent upon families. During the century we now live in we will see, according to demographers, the world population decline. That is something many people have not yet begun to get their heads around. We in United Future are not speaking up for families because of some warm fuzzies we have about families but because it is essential to our survival as a nation, and for Western democracy and our civilisation. Either we support families and spend on them so they can be strengthened, or we spend more and more each year on the costs of family breakdown. We already spend $6 billion in this country on family breakdown. How can we mock spending the kind of money that is being released in this Budget to help build stronger families in this country when we know it will make a difference? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EWe need families to succeed: we need wealthy families to succeed and we need poor families to succeed. When Richard Prebble is old and infirm\u2014no one should say that that has come already\u2014and in some private hospital somewhere, and he looks out from under his blankets to see who is taking care of him, it will probably be the child of some poor family whose parents had the courage to still go ahead and have children, because that is the most important thing we do. In Richard Prebble\u2019s ideology and theory, that child\u2019s parents should not have ever had kids. They should not have bred, as he said so derogatively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EUnited Future welcome this bill and the assistance it will provide for families. Perhaps as important as the financial assistance that this bill will give is the encouragement it may send to low and middle income families that finally someone in this place is working for families. They have been forgotten by the previous two Governments. It is commendable that New Zealand First, the Greens, United Future, Labour, and the Progressives are putting aside petty politics to support this; although Peter Brown disgraced himself earlier and began to engage again in petty politics by taking cheap shots at a definition of \u201Cfamily\u201D that he knows makes no sense whatsoever. The only thing he should put into his mouth, according to my dear mother, would be some soap right now to wash it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI believe that all of us\u2014New Zealand First, the Greens, the Progressives, and ourselves\u2014would have recommendations to make to Labour as to how this package might be delivered differently, but the point is that it is time for us to stand together for families and deliver something for them. I would have liked to see the assistance begin now, not in April and October next year, but at least we are beginning, and that is the important thing. This is not a time to let ideology get in the way of addressing the concerns of good working families in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003ESo United Future will be very pleased to support this legislation, and we commend it to the House. As we go through the Committee stage, may we give this bill the respect it deserves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u002211423f649cdb433b8e25a035e538ab94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211423f649cdb433b8e25a035e538ab94\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I raise this point of order under Standing Order 106, \u201CMisrepresentation\u201D, which states: \u201C(1) A member who has spoken to a question may speak again to explain some material part of the member\u2019s speech which has been misquoted, misunderstood or misrepresented in the same debate.\u201D I cannot speak in this debate because the ACT party does not have a place, but I have now heard two United Future members state to the House that I made statements that poor people should not breed. In fact, most of the member\u2019s speech was devoted to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EI have gone back and checked my Hansard to see whether I made any such statement. There is no such statement in the two representations I have made today, and if the member wants to know exactly what I did say, I replied to an interjection from Mr David Cunliffe: \u201CI say to Mr Cunliffe, the Liberal Party in Australia put forward a benefit breeding programme, where the Treasurer said: \u2018This is a policy that is going to encourage people to have kids.\u2019, and what happened to that party\u2019s popularity? It went into free fall.\u201D I do not see how those words can be interpreted as me saying to this House that poor people should not be able to breed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00228aebda44219941c483cbe0441d6a5159\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aebda44219941c483cbe0441d6a5159\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E That is not how that Standing Order is interpreted. The member knows very well\u2014he has been here a long time\u2014that when he uses that Standing Order, he has to quote the words that were used\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd57dd5794e841a0bd4a8db6b6e8dee5\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I just did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210240eab18d94a849c30534ac8e0a9a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no\u2014and to state that those words were incorrect, and not then to engage in an argument, as the member did subsequently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u00223d4049f430d742aebf011d190a7732e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d4049f430d742aebf011d190a7732e2\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I quoted exactly from my Hansard: \u201CI say to Mr Cunliffe, the Liberal Party in Australia put forward a benefit breeding programme, where the Treasurer said: \u2018This is a policy that is going to encourage people to have kids.\u2019 , and what happened to that party\u2019s popularity? It went into free fall.\u201D I am saying to the House that nowhere in my speeches have I said what both United Future MPs have repeated to the House\u2014that I made a statement that poor people cannot breed. I just say to the House that I come from a genuinely poor family, and I find the United Future party\u2019s attacks on me to be outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00226bb20c749d3d4dadbf1f03ff477e83a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bb20c749d3d4dadbf1f03ff477e83a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E That member knows very well how that Standing Order has to be applied: he merely states what was claimed to be said. He then says what he said, and nothing more than that. He does not engage in further argument as he has now done twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cd8b563630a41f283804e24ea146c48\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaker\u2019s ruling 35/1 states: \u201CA member who has been misrepresented must wait until the end of the speech of the member concerned before rising to make an explanation even though the speech in which the misrepresentation is alleged to have been made has been interrupted by the adjournment on a Friday and is not concluded until after the resumption of the debate on the following Tuesday.\u201D The point is that the misrepresentation Mr Prebble has alleged could have been dealt with in debate, and should\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d0b1b7eb2e343748833f46eefb70e34\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve got no call left. Don\u2019t be ridiculous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002220c1d8808bae47118098736624e261f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220c1d8808bae47118098736624e261f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The member raised a perfectly legitimate point of order, which was to say that he was misquoted in debate. The remedy a member has under the Standing Orders is to simply rise, state what the misquotation was, state what the actual statement was, and that is the end of the statement the member may make. He may not engage in further argument, which is to engage in further debate at that point. It is sufficient to simply state what was said, rather than what is claimed to have been said. That is the Standing Order and the ruling on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u00224b6a0f36ffe1445e8b4aa0702b66828f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b6a0f36ffe1445e8b4aa0702b66828f\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I actually agree with Dr Cullen\u2019s interpretation of the Standing Order, and that is what I believe I did. I think we can now proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022 data-id=\u0022f288e50435ef4c8f96998c78165f2ce3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f288e50435ef4c8f96998c78165f2ce3\u0022\u003EHELEN DUNCAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Budget day 2004 is a great day for New Zealand and particularly for New Zealand families. The Working for Families package that is at the centre of the measures announced today will make a huge difference in the lives of low to middle income workers. These people are the big winners from today\u2019s Budget, and I think that is just great. More than 60 percent of working families will be better off as a result of this Budget. Those in the $25,000 to $45,000 income range will be better off by up to almost $100 a week. The average increase will be $66 a week\u2014a hugely significant increase that will make a real difference to the standard of living of these families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EAs the advertisements say: \u201CBut wait, there\u2019s more.\u201D Increases to childcare assistance will provide an average $23 a week per child, and even that is not all. Increases to the accommodation supplement will give an average $19 a week more. This money is going where it will do the most good and make a real difference. It is not going into the pockets of the well-off, as tax cuts do. No, this money is going to help the Kiwi battlers and to fight child poverty. If, as the Prime Minister said, we use the measure of 50 percent of median income as the threshold, the percentage of children lifted from poverty is a staggering 70 percent. I think that is fantastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EThe Budget helps families in other ways, too. As someone who has a keen interest in education, I am delighted with the wonderful improvements in the provision of early childhood education. The rates of subsidy will increase significantly, and lots more families will be entitled to receive the subsidy. At least 33,000 children will benefit from this provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EThere is another improvement that will be very much appreciated by New Zealand parents. Up until now, free early childhood education has been provided only through the kindergarten service. But this Labour-led Government is extending this to all community-based childcare centres. From mid-2007, all 3 and 4-year-old children will be entitled to 20 hours of free education. I know that will be appreciated by parents, and I also know it will ensure that quality early childhood education and care is available for all children. That will provide a great start for those children and, as research shows, it will benefit them right through  their educational lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EOf course the National-ACT Opposition does not like this bill! It does not want to help low and middle income families. It only wants to give tax cuts\u2014tax cuts that deliver the most to those who need it least. Those members want to look after their mates on the high incomes. They do not care about hard-working, low-income New Zealanders. The National-ACT Opposition also wants to cut the corporate tax rate, so that overseas investors are better off and more money flows off shore. Well, how sensible is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI tell those members that this Labour-led Government cares about hard-working New Zealand families, and we are going to look after them. The Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill is great policy, and I am proud to be part of a great Government that is making a huge improvement in the lives of New Zealand families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI want to thank Dr Michael Cullen and the team of Ministers who have produced the best and most forward-looking Budget we have seen in New Zealand for decades. It is brilliant, and I am proud to be a part of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u002255b60cea8cf1404d9dd2d54e48cb3535\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255b60cea8cf1404d9dd2d54e48cb3535\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E That member says this is a great day for New Zealand. Well, I wonder which alternative universe she has been in over the last few hours. Obviously she did not watch Holmes, where it was quite clear that most New Zealanders looked at this Budget and realised the emperor had no clothes, and there was nothing in the Budget for them. Steve Maharey must be absolutely gutted. This was supposed to be the great day for the launch of the vanguard of Labour Party policy. This Budget was supposed to be the flagship of Labour Party policy, and what did we have? We had had a comedy of errors. The day just has not gone Labour\u2019s way. It started off at about 11 o\u2019clock, when at the Dunedin lock-up the representatives of the social services sector were accidentally locked up 2 hours before any of the Budget presentation. People turned up at 11 o\u2019clock, thinking that they were going to have a presentation from the Minister with all sorts of coffee, tea, and savouries, and were told that nothing would happen until 1 o\u2019clock. Well, boy, were they annoyed! The Labour Party has made itself a laughing stock by forcing some very productive people in my city to sit around and twiddle their thumbs. They said, ladies and gentlemen, that the savouries were not even very good, either. That was 2 hours of wasted time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe second part of the comedy of errors was, of course, some of the information that was put out with the Working for Families Budget special. I want to turn to the example of Aroha and Robert. Aroha and Robert earn $37,000. They have two children, one aged 4 years and the other 16 years. The piece of paper I am holding states that in 2007 they will be better off by $163 a week. The problem is that the Labour Party forgot that 16-year-olds actually age over the years: that 16-year-olds actually become 19-year-olds by 2007, and are not eligible for those particular parts of the benefit. I would like to thank Mandy at the 0800 number for Working for Families, who did some homework and realised the scenario was wrong. Well, if that is wrong, what else in there is wrong? We wonder what other misleading information is out there. I think New Zealanders can see through the Budget, and that is what we have seen tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EOnly one in five families will benefit from this Budget, and that is why we have seen only one in five people ring up the Holmes show\u2014probably most of them from Michael Cullen\u2019s office. The Government must be absolutely gutted. Here we have the flagship Budget\u2014the big day when people were all going to become excited, and everyone was going to love the Government and be grateful to it\u2014and New Zealanders have seen right through it. Members on the Government side of the House thought they could flash all that cash around, handing back the money taken from hard-working taxpayers, and somehow supposed taxpayers would be grateful for that. That shows the arrogance of Government members. They think hard-working New Zealanders should be grateful for getting their own taxes back. That is why Don Brash called the Budget a cynical ploy, and a cynical attempt to win votes. Otherwise, why did the Government not do it in its first 5 years in office? And why do some of these things not come in until 2007? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIn fact, the important issue today is why we are here in urgency. We are not passing any legislation that requires a change to be made overnight. We are not changing the taxation system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3aaf802ddd440ceacb05dedf0ae8368\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s about time you did some work, young lady.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ad73657926a46ca81681e7a8cd5da44\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Dr Cullen that some of these changes do not come in until October. This urgency is all just part of the performance, to give the impression that we are doing something urgent and important. It seems the only thing the Minister is worried about is that people may go out and sign up on a benefit before midnight. If we look at the people who will benefit most from this measure, we see most of them are already dependent on the State. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EI say that making more New Zealanders dependent on the State is no vision for New Zealand, and that making more middle-income New Zealanders reliant on the Government for a State handout is no vision for this country. Even the mother in the family from Waihi said she would prefer to have her money back in the hand than to receive a handout from the Government. That is one of the things this Government has not quite got. People want to be able to make their own spending choices, not the spending choices directed by this Government. The free childcare package was launched today with much fanfare. It was bit like paid parental leave, actually. The Government launched it thinking that everyone would be excited about it, but there are thousands of families who will miss out. The free childcare is only available to families who go to community-based early childhood education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de3c2cb0f18a48dbb1b9a31a5e29913a\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: How many do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb3ced2624f45508e5439d257cb39fc\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: It is about 40 percent of the early childhood education providers. Parents like choice. They like the idea that they can determine where their children will go to for early childhood education, be it kindergarten, Montessori, a community centre, or a private centre. Ideology has driven that provision. That is why the 20 hours of free childcare is not available to parents who have their children in private facilities, and that is a joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIt is an arrogant assumption that New Zealanders will be wildly grateful to the Government. I think we have seen tonight that New Zealanders can see through this Budget. They can see it is a cruel hoax, and they will not benefit from it. Four out of five families will be no better off as a result of this Budget. The Government thought those four out of five families would somehow be grateful for the benefits that will accrue to the other one out of five families. It does not work that way, and New Zealanders can see it is a cruel hoax. It is income-churning at best\u2014taking the money off families by overtaxing them for the last 5 years just to hand that money back, so this Government can determine the spending decisions of New Zealanders and continue its social engineering agenda. That is what this Budget is about. This measure is not about welfare reform; there is very little in it to do with welfare reform. Where is the miraculous universal benefit that Michael Cullen has been talking about since 1990, and that Steve Maharey said would be in place by 2002? It has not happened. Every time the Social Services Committee asks about that, they say they are working on it. The Budget documents today stated they are working on it. I think the Minister has worked out that it is a helluva lot more complex than he originally thought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe incentives announced today make welfare more attractive for some people. What we have seen today will entrench welfare dependency further in this country, rather than reduce it. That is why this Budget is a cruel hoax. Future Directions goes in the wrong direction. That is why, in terms of replacement legislation, National has its own ideas on how to take people from welfare and put them into work, and on how to support those families. National\u2019s ideas will be far more effective than some of the trash that has been served up today. This is a cruel hoax. The Holmes poll was a good indication of how most New Zealanders see this Budget, and Dr Cullen must have been very upset to see that flat in the face on television tonight. It will be interesting to read the editorials and the letters to the editor. We will see more New Zealanders realise the emperor has no clothes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6134d2143cc46a5819ca8a014cb3dd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6134d2143cc46a5819ca8a014cb3dd7\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I was hoping that somebody out there might be listening to my speech, but after that performance from Ms Rich there is no show of that. People will all have turned off their radios and gone back to bed, and I do not blame them for doing so. They have just heard the revisiting of the class wars: the rich versus the poor. National Party members will abdicate responsibility, and will all resign and let Paul Holmes run the country by telephone poll. That would be a lot cheaper than having those members over there on the Opposition benches being paid for doing nothing. So it is probably not a bad idea for them to rely on the Holmes poll to come up with their policies. There was not one idea in the 10 long minutes of that speech on the bill from the Opposition spokesperson on social welfare. At least we know what the ACT party believes in. At least we can argue with its members about what is better for people, based on ACT\u2019s policy of a 20c in the dollar flat taxation rate. But with National, we have a leader who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd9d9b6e64b44b08845efcbf1e0347b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: 11  percent for that family in Waihi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264fe151c645b4b339d6a17f3c93b251f\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: It would be 11 percent. Well, that would pay for a lot of health services! People would not have to worry about getting their hips and their knees replaced. They would never get anything replaced under a National Government, with an 11 percent taxation rate to give to the family in Waihi what this Government has given it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EIt is no wonder Don Brash is scratching his head and trying to figure out what to do. He has already committed the National Party to a policy of no tax cuts\u2014none at all. The National Party says it will look after low to middle income workers, but it does not have any policy that could be described as saying how it will do that. At least ACT says that on a 20c in the dollar flat taxation rate, that family in Waihi would be $39 a week better off. The ACT party will go out there and sell that. Its members will say if people vote for ACT, it will give them $39 a week. ACT will tell people not to vote for Labour, because the miserable people in Labour will give them $150 a week, which they do not need. ACT will say it is much better to have no health services and no education services and to be given 39 bucks for that, as against the Labour - Progressive Coalition Government\u2019s giving people $150. ACT will have to take another Holmes poll on that one, to see whether it has it right. Maybe ACT will figure out that it is wrong, but we do not know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EMaurice Williamson will tell all the people in his electorate he is opposed to people getting $150 a week. He will tell them he knows what is best for them, and they should not receive more for their accommodation supplement. Maurice Williamson will give them nothing. If people vote for Maurice Williamson, he will give them nothing. But he will tell people not to dare to vote for the Labour - Progressive Coalition Government\u2019s Budget. The National Party talks about ideology. Talk about dumb! National members are going to vote against this bill on the basis of ideology, because it gives workers, families, and children over $50 a week, when they are promising them nothing and ACT is promising them 39 bucks a week. I do not think I have to speak any more, because those people over there on the Opposition benches have said it all for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022efebb4e7ec6a45aa97d646080bb948a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efebb4e7ec6a45aa97d646080bb948a9\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the eleventh call in this debate to be split between New Zealand First and National, with National having the first call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a76c620c24474485bad817449b61f2d9\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that. Is there any objection? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc6da078e9d54f319bb549b54f31eecf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc6da078e9d54f319bb549b54f31eecf\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Let me first make it very clear that National cares deeply about low to middle income working families. And let me point out how much Dr Cullen and Labour care about them, because the families who are most disadvantaged in New Zealand at the moment are those where there is a couple with one person working on, say, $10 an hour. After that person has worked for 8 hours, in order to get another dollar in the pocket at the moment he or she has to work 49 hours a week. Now, has Labour done anything tonight to fix that problem? Labour is to do something in 2006 to help that family. But if Dr Cullen and Labour cared at all about low-income families, they would do something tonight to help that family. How is it right for a family, after 8 hours\u2019 work at $10 an hour, to earn a certain amount of money and not to earn another dollar till the income earner has worked 49 hours a week? The Government is changing the abatement rate. This bill does change that rate, but when does it do that? It does it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a037f630e0f447edb2d040bd527ae6ba\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Midnight tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ae96c3a6a9d41e5a29d0545cbda9945\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Not midnight tonight. When is the Government to help that low-income family? In the explanatory note of the bill it states that it will be on 1 April 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhat the arrogant Dr Cullen does not seem to understand is that there are other ways of helping low to middle income families. This is the most stupid way to do so, because it turns tens of thousands more hard-working New Zealand families into beneficiaries. That is what is so wrong with this bill. Dr Cullen sits there and says the only way National would do that is by changing the taxation rates, which would cost billions and give tax breaks to people who do not need them. All I can say to people like Steve Maharey and Dr Cullen is that they should think a bit more about how they could be innovative regarding taxation. They are clearly so arrogant they have not thought the thing through. There are other ways of delivering support for low to middle income people, but to tax them, then give money back to them, and expect them to think that is great is just stupidity. Yet that is what Labour is doing. It is taxing people more, because with bracket-creep low to middle income earners are paying more and more in tax. With all the new taxes that Labour has introduced, people are paying more and more in tax, and the Government, instead of reducing tax, says that it will pay that money back. It has even changed the name from tax credit to \u201Cin-work payment\u201D, or something. I cannot believe that Labour thinks the people of New Zealand will buy that one\u2014that on one hand they are taxed more, and then on the other hand a couple of years later they are given a little bit of that money back. The Government wonders why it is that on the Holmes show four out of five people do not like it, and only one in five says it makes sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe disgrace of what Labour is doing in this measure is that there are low to middle income families that are hurting. They are hurting right now, and hurting very much. But the disgraceful thing about this legislation is that the families that are hurting the most will not be helped for a couple of years. That is the disgraceful thing, because the abatement arrangements hurt people who are trying to get off benefits the most. That is because of the way the benefit abatement interacts with the family support tax credit, and Labour is not changing that till 1 April 2006. That is a disgrace! It shows the Government does not care about the families who are hurting the most. It is throwing out a couple of little crumbs from 1 April next year, but is doing nothing serious to help those families until 2006. It is no wonder people are not supporting this legislation tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Friday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405273cf4e1c523c747ba9dcc24f7c7a79787000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e96d0c9de19b4aeeb41b3cb47624e308\u0022\u003EThursday, 27 May 2004\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293babefb91bb4fa69000fa7912cf706a\u0022\u003E(continued on Friday, 28 May 2004)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229382fffc4f464f99b24f971c263006f3\u0022\u003EFuture Directions (Working for Families) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220aafea8339684426889a2ee4a40aedb5\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002235186a863807479fa6479d694cd3b333\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235186a863807479fa6479d694cd3b333\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First will be supporting this legislation. It is the low and middle income families that this bill is designed for and I was quite amazed last night at the focus in the House on the Holmes poll. We know that most low and middle income people in New Zealand do not spend their money on ringing the Holmes poll.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c42d966e88044d2e98702ca569ca6cfb\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beced056bac44c28b81ebec6f80953e9\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: It is not the low and the middle income people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ecb2e8e8d9747cba52bdae15e142d9b\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: So the $100,000 people sit there and text?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208daee773c9c48bfb15c9b9757b9e89b\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: They bother phoning in; the low-income people do not. That money can be spent elsewhere. This legislation is good news for New Zealand families. We have looked at the legislation again overnight and heard the public, and we are seeking an amendment to move the dates forward. We challenge United Future and Labour to support this amendment. We know that in New Zealand we have children and adolescents who go without basic health-care, proper food, clothing, and a good education. New Zealand is not a Third World country. We want our children to have the best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s own report shows that nearly one-third of New Zealand children live in poverty. The Ministry of Social Development stated in its report that many poor families with children were missing out on the basics. The hardships facing these families included not having adequate or sufficient fresh fruit and vegetables, a lack of warm clothing or raincoats, having to put up with worn-out shoes because of cost, not having glasses because of cost, not visiting medical practitioners, not having a telephone or a washing machine, and putting up with cold because of cost; children having to live in overcrowded situations and not being able to afford to attend birthday parties, because they cannot buy a gift; children who do not have birthday parties, because their parents cannot afford the expense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe want our children in New Zealand to have the best. We once led the world in the care of our children and we need to lead the world again. Ongoing child poverty can cause serious problems in the future. We all know that poverty during childhood has impacts across a child\u2019s whole life, setting off a series of potential problems that are cumulative and affect both health and educational outcomes. Poverty is a terrible state. The desperation of poverty is also an important consideration in the despair that leads to attempted suicide for some young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First believes that child poverty has a major, though largely hidden, cost to society that will compromise future human and intellectual capital. We were pleased to see that improvements were made to the Government policies, because children must be a priority for policy if we are to make the most of the future for all New Zealanders. The well-being of our children affects the well-being of our nation, and that is the bottom line. Ignoring the needs of children incurs costs in the future from increased unemployment, poor health, mental health problems, and low educational achievement. Child poverty must be eliminated if New Zealand is to reach its full potential. Supporting families who are struggling to make ends meet is a good investment. It is clear that children achieve more at school when they have good nutrition and secure homes and that they then have greater opportunities in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe believe that this is really vital legislation. We want to see the improvements that will be made for our children. We are really pleased to see the improvements made to childcare assistance. We will be pushing to have the dates moved forward, because we support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022772b16408bd04aaeaac68cda8d3bba91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022772b16408bd04aaeaac68cda8d3bba91\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E What a great day! The sun is shining and as I walked to the steps of Parliament today I saw a person with a placard that stated three simple words: \u201CLabour helps kids\u201D. That is something to celebrate, and that is what this Government is about. It is about looking after families and recognising ordinary Kiwis\u2014low and middle income earners. I want to acknowledge United Future, which has stood beside us and applauded this legislation. This is a package that carries through to 2007 with 60 percent of families with dependent children winning. This is one of our Government\u2019s greatest achievements, and there have been many. When it is fully in place, there will be an average increase of around $100 a week for families in the $25,000 to $45,000 wage bracket; families like this family pictured in the newspaper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThis Budget is not just about putting money into families\u2019 pockets, it is also about building on our early childhood strategy. By 2007, 3 and 4-year-olds will get 23 hours of early childhood education. That is an investment, not a cost, and it is an investment that this Government is proud to make. Low and middle income earners were dealt to through the 1990s. Their take-home pay was driven down by ruthless legislation under the National Government. There was no support for apprenticeships or training\u2014none whatsoever. There was a harsh market rent regime in State houses, and most of them were flogged off, big time. User-pays was pushed more and more in health and education with the theory being that if people did not pay, they did not use. There was no hope for ordinary New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWhat do we have now? We have paid parental leave, apprenticeships, a fairer loan scheme for our students, better primary health-care, a doubling of hip surgery, industry training, and more people in work than in decades. That investment in people has paid off and now we can keep reinvesting in people. The response from the \u201Cgrab the jelly\u201D party is once again that Dr Brash will not come clean. It is the same old tired rhetoric from the same old tired party that has the mantra: tax cuts are better. Who gets the most out of tax cuts? The rich. Katherine Rich and Don Brash. The National Party members and their cronies are once again looking at lining their own pockets\u2014self, self, self. Has \u201CMr Selfish\u201D got the guts to come clean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a34661f1a14cfbaac66948f95a5cdd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is enough. That phrase must be withdrawn and apologised for. The member has to be very careful and start coming back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f27c9f2d87d49c69802138df25d39f4\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Is Dr Brash coming clean about what he has proposed to do with these increases for modest-income earners\u2014the people who need it the most? Will he? No. Once again it will be the same old mantra and he will bleat about how bad things are. What is bad when we have a buoyant economy, the lowest unemployment in decades, fairer tertiary education, paid parental leave, and fairer labour laws, to name just a few? He promises tax cuts, but does not tell us what would go with that loss of revenue. This Budget is about working for families. This Budget is good for New Zealand families, and I am pleased to be part of a Labour-led Government that is delivering it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227777cc0396314766b81076a4c24a4c8f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 81\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 22; ACT New Zealand 5; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002255932326fd5340379ff2df06f78b2aac\u0022\u003EInstruction to Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022349b070a7c6e4152bfb5907dfc362a9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022349b070a7c6e4152bfb5907dfc362a9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That it be an instruction to the Committee of the whole House on the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill that it take the bill part by part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022abeb840e0cba4268afe96d5a920ff747\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 81\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 22; ACT New Zealand 5; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a0ba3b3570442aba4c15e4d4dfa8d23\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228a190f06da824e93812cdfcc80be3c98\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Social Security Act 1964\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f44db73ff0c649969e0d83b251094095\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f44db73ff0c649969e0d83b251094095\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E As I rise to speak to Part 1 of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, it is very clear that members on this side have a whole host of questions for the Minister about how this bill will really take this country into a future direction that is positive for New Zealand. Looking at this bill, one of the first questions for the Minister is: what in this bill will keep some of our professional, educated New Zealanders in this country? What will keep our nurses and doctors from going to Australia and the UK, our teachers from leaving to go to better salaries overseas, and even our social workers from going to London? What will make it easier for the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services to not only get social workers, but also be able to keep them and pay decent wages? One of the things that is absent in this bill is any discussion about how it will contribute to economic growth and grow the pie. This bill is just about redistributing the pie and handing it out to different New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1cd8be94a74a1887318b90dc062177\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Vote bribe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec4e1227962413896bae2a81d60ff80\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: It is a vote buyer\u2014it is nothing more than a bribe. I ask the Minister: where is the courage of his convictions? If he was serious about putting his plans in place, then how come these benefits are dribbled out over the next couple of years? That has been the major feedback over the last couple of days. People are saying that if the Government is serious about this, why is it not putting these plans in place earlier? They are saying: \u201CWell, I might get something 3 years down the track, but big deal!\u201D. In today\u2019s Dominion Post, Jane Clifton said: \u201CJam tomorrow and a smear of Marmite today.\u201D This proves that it really is an election bribe. All the benefits conveniently start to filter in after the next election. There is nothing in here to provide a blueprint for making this country a better place for a larger group of New Zealanders. There is nothing in here about growing the economy or creating an environment where our professionals, educated New Zealanders, and tradespeople will stay. It is not just the nurses, teachers, and doctors taking off; it is also our plumbers, electricians, and those people who have any kind of skill, because they can travel across the ditch and get better salaries and wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EA lot of these things happen sometime in the future. Now, if this Government were serious about making a difference to its voters, then it would have the start date more or less immediately. One of the things that is quite strange is why members are debating this in urgency at all, as there is nothing in this bill that kicks in before this October. The Government is not changing any taxes or putting up any prices. Those members are here only because they want to make a huge performance and try to convince their voters that they are doing something glamorous and making a major change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EWell, I think most of us can see through this. This is nothing more than a cute performance to make it look as if the Government is doing something\u2014marmite today and jam tomorrow, for many of Labour\u2019s voters. This bill is called \u201Cfuture directions\u201D, but I ask what future this legislation will actually give to families in New Zealand. What is in it for the young student who has just got a degree and gone off to get his or her first job? What is in it for young married couples who have no children? Nothing. That is why the feedback on the Budget has been mixed. I imagine that the Minister is pretty gutted that many New Zealanders have not looked at the Budget and cried: \u201CYeehah, we\u2019re for Labour!\u201D. New Zealanders have realised that four out of five families get nothing from the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EEven the childcare part of the bill is a bit of a joke. Anybody who listened to Morning Report would have heard that Sean Plunket has his kids in a private childcare arrangement. Those families who choose not to be in community-based childcare facilities will get nothing. Once again, it is social engineering at its worst. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIf this Government had the courage of its convictions, the start dates would not be in some far-flung year in the future, conveniently after the next election. The Government would not be holding this lolly scramble out and basically telling New Zealanders: \u201CYes, there is going to be a lolly scramble, but the lollies will be delivered right up until 2007.\u201D In this bill, there is a major change that will not be good for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225fac933b5be14adfb8c68ca43a70f936\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fac933b5be14adfb8c68ca43a70f936\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E How would one feel the morning after one\u2019s great Budget\u2014heralded throughout the country for days as the great saviour of the Labour Government\u2014after reading the New Zealand Herald headline: \u201COne for the kids (and for their parents\u2019 votes)\u201D. It then goes on to state: \u201CMichael Cullen fulfils his role in life by splashing out to give poor families $100 a week more \u2026 eventually\u201D. This is legislation that shows no aspiration for this country\u2019s future\u2014none at all. It is a simple redistribution. How typical of a Government hell-bent on the sorts of socialist policies Labour has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca1a91d9b8041f0981b2913c3055410\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Right on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022208c70d35cbb4df68477833ade716c85\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Every small-business operator and every person on a low wage in this country should be terrified on hearing Michael Cullen say that, because what they now know is that as long as there is a Labour Government those who are low paid will get in their pocket only the money the Government says they can have. I think that is quite unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister of Finance why we are here today. Clearly, the first part of his package is already appropriated, and we do not need the $600 million - odd in this giveaway until next April or well beyond that point. But the Minister has decided that Government members will come into the Chamber, belt this bill through under urgency, and then try to convince the public of New Zealand that this Government has done something amazing and immediate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere is nothing amazing or immediate about this bill. I ask the Minister whether he can confirm that the reason this bill is not going to a select committee is that proper scrutiny of it would see it torn to bits, as that would be the best way to deliver better incomes for low-paid New Zealanders. It would be torn to bits, because this bill is all about condemning low-paid workers\u2014for the benefit of the Government\u2014and making them beneficiaries rather than workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E This Budget will go down historically as being the Budget that started to pave the road from work to welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c2e607b6474888af8e7685087574ae\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Nonsense!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229716dbb60d124f9ea1398022efc16064\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The soon-to-be-retired member from Kapiti over the other side is saying \u201CNonsense!\u201D. He should go and ask low-paid workers in his electorate whether they want to have a Government handout or whether they want to keep more of the money they earn\u2014and, more important, whether they want to earn more money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis Budget was, as has been pointed out very well by the leader of the ACT party, a Budget in which we could have had enormous economic stimulation, to the point where New Zealanders\u2019 salaries might have started to move in a much quicker fashion towards those of our near neighbour, Australia. But, no, Dr Cullen, in a bit of panic and knowing that the nation across the border has got sick of the Government telling it what to do all the time\u2014which it has started to indicate in the polls\u2014decided that he would put a few markers out in the sand to see how keen it is to run and pick them up. Is it not an irony that when the problem is that the people are sick of being told what to do, when to do it, and how to do it, the Government comes in and says to a big chunk of those people: \u201CThis is what you can have, this is when you can have it, and this is all you\u2019re going to get.\u201D That will just exacerbate the situation that the Labour Party finds itself in, and this great centrepiece of the Budget, the so-called Future Directions package, will not do it one bit of good in the eyes of this country\u2019s voting population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHow can it proclaim that the future direction for low-paid workers and for struggling families is simply a hope that the Government might, on a more regular basis, allow them to keep more of the money they already earn? I heard Dr Cullen this morning saying that families cannot be advantaged to the same extent by reducing tax rates. I think that is an utter nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b75abed775694e51a5aca4fe8636312b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b75abed775694e51a5aca4fe8636312b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I would like deal with that last point first, before I go on to a few other matters. Let us take the case of the Waihi family\u2014which, I suspect, might have a bit of a connection with another party in this House\u2014on $55,000 a year. That family will gain $150 a week. To deliver that through the tax system, what flat tax rate would we need? The rate would be 11.3 percent flat tax. What would that cost? Mr Williamson will buy that. The cost of that in revenue terms is equal to the entire expenditure on education and health put together. That is how much money we would lose from the 11.3 percent flat tax rate. We would have to demolish the health system and the education system and then say: \u201CHaven\u2019t we been very clever? We\u2019ve got a system that isn\u2019t targeted out of that.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe member asked what happens in terms of gains to employment. We have widened the gap in this package between benefits and work, from a Lockwood Smith width to a Gerry Brownlee width. That is what we have done. It has gone up a long, long way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat is the National Party\u2019s objection to the package in this legislation? Listen to the confusion, as always! What members say is that it is an election bribe, it is not big enough, and it should be sooner. They say it is a lolly-scramble, and it should be a lolly stampede. That is what the National Party says. Mr Brownlee holds up a newspaper\u2014one of the few things he can hide behind\u2014which states: \u201COne for the kids\u201D. He says that is a bad condemnation of the Budget. That confused ramble down either road will not reflect anything in terms of where ordinary middle New Zealanders are. \u201COne for the kids\u201D is a bad headline? My God! To me, that is a dream headline arising from a Budget; one I could scarcely have written myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo what are those members trying to say? They are trying to say: \u201CWe\u2019re actually jealous that they\u2019ve managed to do this. We wish we could have done it.\u201D They will not say what they are trying to do. If this package comes into force a little bit after the election, then to be an election bribe there has to be an assumption that the National Party would repeal it. Ah, yes, those members have cottoned on. They have suddenly realised the trap they have created for themselves with bad, illogical thinking. It is only a bribe on behalf of the Labour Party if it will not be there post-election if there is a change of Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo perhaps Mr Brownlee would like to take a call during another part. Perhaps, with Dr Lockwood Smith grinning behind him, he might like to tell us whether a National Government would repeal the Future Directions package. Would it repeal it? Will one of the 15 members of the National Party who have bothered to stay to work today tell us whether they would repeal this package? I think we could sit here for a couple of hours and ask that question as we go through the Committee stage, and wait for an answer. Let me try it again. Would the National Party repeal the package? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4d5f164c83643298dfc682ddbbb0a87\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Someone stop the clock!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393cb1eb6bfc47e8b5d62f0c3c92eaf2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, because that is all that will save that member\u2014stopping the clock at this particular point in time. That is all that will save Mr Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe answer is that of course they would. Of course they would take these gains away, because this is not their favoured group in society. They do not want a headline that states: \u201COne for the kids\u201D. They want a headline that states: \u201COne taken away from the kids\u201D. Mr Brownlee wants to be the lolly stealer from the children of New Zealand. That is what he wants to do. He wants to mount a raid from Ilam Road down into where I used to live in Burwood\u2014a raid into middle-income New Zealand\u2014and take the lollies back off the kids that the Labour Party is supposed to be offering them. Come the next election, I think that will be a pretty good kind of contest to run between Labour and National. We cannot wait for that to be the focus of the next election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWho is for families? The Labour Party, the Progressive party, and the United Future party are, and the Green Party is\u2014with reservations. The New Zealand First party is. Barbara Stewart gave an eloquent speech on the problems of child poverty. But the National Party is not, and the ACT party does not count. That is all there is of them there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u00226909bd417f0f43d8a7926613cb2bbe73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226909bd417f0f43d8a7926613cb2bbe73\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take up the challenges given to us by the Minister of Finance, but first, I want to put it on the record that I regard it as unparliamentary and bad lawmaking that a bill of this sort that should be going through the normal procedure to a select committee is not doing so. The only reason a bill would not be sent to a select committee would be if it were genuinely urgent. But, as has been pointed out, and as the public has worked out, the first of the changes does not arrive until October, and the significant changes arrive in April next year. Those changes are all for welfare beneficiaries. The workers, whom Mr Cullen said he was in favour of and was giving incentives to, do not receive anything for 2 years. We can understand why the Government does not want to send that to a select committee. That would be the first submission it would receive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EWe have an interesting situation. Treasury says there is a $6 billion surplus, but the Minister of Finance, apparently, has lost most of the money. But Treasury keeps writing down $6 billion, and I am sticking to that. We have the largest surplus ever, yet the Government states that it cannot do anything for 2 years, and then challenges us to say whether we would wait 2 years, as it is doing. The answer is no, we would not. While I do not like this package, I will support New Zealand First\u2019s sensible amendment that if this is so urgent, we should bring it on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EI also say to Dr Cullen that if he is so keen to have an election, let us have one. I say to him that I know which of the proposals will win\u2014the proposal of the ACT party to have a prosperity-creating tax cut versus these payments for social welfare beneficiaries. Is the first clause of Part 1 in this bill all about workers? No. Clause 3 is headed: \u201CSocial Security Act 1964 called principal Act in this part\u201D. Of course, it is. This is a welfare Budget. It is not a Budget for workers. It is in black and white\u2014the principal Act is the Social Welfare Act. Why is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EWhen one looks at the numbers, who will be getting the money? The money will be going to beneficiaries. When one looks at what families will get, the majority of working families with dependants will get nothing from this Budget. If one looks at the whole of New Zealand, four out of five New Zealanders will get nothing from this Budget. We will not support Dr Cullen in that unfairness. We ought to be returning the money to the people it belongs to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EDr Cullen and the Labour Party should think back. People are saying that this is the first Labour Budget for 30 years. I remember Charles Waldegrave and his misery industry saying in 1989\u2014after Roger Douglas had been sacked, David Caygill was put in, and he put up a Budget of this sort\u2014what a wonderful Labour Budget it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5bb636bd96409cb78027f8b7ae49ee\u0022\u003EOpposition Member\u003C/span\u003E: Did he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcb35bb625794bf48e7c86c59a758931\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Did it work? No, it did not, and I will tell members why. First, the majority of working people did not get anything. Next, welfare beneficiaries were not grateful, either, and why was that? The majority of people on welfare do not plan to stay there. When they are told to vote Labour and in 2 years\u2019 time they will get more money, they will say: \u201CThat\u2019s not me. I\u2019m going to be off welfare.\u201D If members opposite think that this is a popular Budget, they should look back at David Caygill\u2019s giveaway Budget in 1989. It went down like a rock, and so will this Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EThe Government has also made this mistake: Government members have gone around the country for a month saying\u2014as we read in the New Zealand Herald\u2014that families that earn up to $80,000 a year will benefit. People thought that would be so, and no doubt the Labour Party did recover. I would like the Government to produce this $80,000-a-year working family that will benefit from this Budget. In 3 years\u2019 time, that family might benefit, providing it has nine kids. There will be about three families in the whole of New Zealand that will benefit from this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00227ae7ad8d9cd54df3abae248eb9e18937\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ae7ad8d9cd54df3abae248eb9e18937\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It appears that in the Committee stage the Minister in the chair, Steve Maharey, will not take the opportunity to answer some of our questions. I note the sarcastic, cheeky comments made by the Minister of Finance, who in the normal course of events would be going around the country proudly defending his Budget, but on this occasion\u2014to make sure that he did not have to leave Wellington to defend his Budget\u2014slams the House into urgency to pass measures that will not need to be enacted until 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EAs many members on this side of the House have pointed out, if the Government is so proud of this legislation, it should allow it to go to a select committee, allow it to be scrutinised by the public of New Zealand, and allow New Zealanders to comment on how they think they will be better off. But no, Dr Cullen and Mr Maharey have no intention of allowing this legislation to go to a select committee. They know that they have conned members like Darren Hughes, who yells across the Chamber that this Budget is for working families. Mr Maharey and Dr Cullen know that this legislation is about giving more money to people who are on benefits, and it is about putting more New Zealanders on to a benefit who at the moment do not have to interface with the benefit system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI tell Dr Cullen and Mr Maharey that the real, sad thing about this Budget is that nobody will seriously give thought to the creation of wealth. This Budget is all about simply redistributing money to people who are battling away and paying far higher taxes now than they did before this Labour Government. Dr Cullen and Mr Maharey have missed the opportunity to turn back this excessive take in tax from New Zealanders and give it back to those hard-working New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI remind Mr Maharey that 46 percent of all the tax that is collected by PAYE is taken off people who earn $60,000 or more. Mr Maharey looks up with surprise. He had forgotten that. He should open his Budget pack and look at the simple little card in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, which demonstrates that about 12 percent of all working New Zealanders are now paying the high tax rate of 39 cents, despite solemn promises on a credit card from the Prime Minister that that figure would affect 5 percent of taxpayers. I want the Minister to acknowledge that not only are 12 percent paying the tax rate of 39 cents but that people in that tax bracket are now paying nearly half of all the income tax that is collected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThat lolly-scramble does nothing to address the real problem that faces New Zealand, which is the long-term growth rate of New Zealand. While Mr Maharey sighs and appears totally uninterested in this legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293cc8c299b8548f8994b90c889883d50\u0022\u003EHon Steve Maharey\u003C/span\u003E: In this speech, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8ae891057234db58d5c64efc2178dbe\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister thinks that he can answer some of the questions we are raising, he should take a call. That is the purpose of the Committee stage. He is not prepared to send the legislation to the select committee, because he does not want it to be scrutinised there. However, if he thinks he is doing such a good job, why does he not acknowledge that more children are living in poverty than when he became the Minister? We now have more usage of food banks in this country than when Mr Maharey became the Minister. The lolly-scramble of dishing out money to people in the hope that the Labour Party might resurrect itself in the polls and buy back some votes is why the legislation is being rushed through today, even though there is no intention of delivering the bulk of it until 2007. That is a sham and a con, and it has been accepted as that by most New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbb0ccac8ad243a788d28f38ee3630bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbb0ccac8ad243a788d28f38ee3630bd\u0022\u003EBRENT CATCHPOLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I have listened to many National Party members come up with all sorts of excuses about why this is bad legislation. They keep forgetting one very important point: this legislation will help people get into work. It will help them get off the benefit and into work. We have a huge shortage of ready employees out there, so why do we not get some beneficiaries off the benefit? That can only help businesses. I thought National was a party that helped businesses. This legislation will help businesses, because it will help and encourage people to get into work and fill those job vacancies. I would have thought that National would support this bill, because it will help businesses and improve the welfare of many people on the poverty line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003ELet us look at another National claim. National claims that this legislation does nothing for education; I say that it does. If National members would just listen, they would learn something from this: by putting a little bit more money in the pockets of beneficiaries, those people will have money to provide breakfast for their kids. An awful lot of school kids go to school without having had breakfast, and a lot of schools have to provide breakfasts. They have to provide breakfasts if only to get those kids to learn. If those kids go to school with empty stomachs they will not learn or concentrate, so schools have to put on food. This bill will help parents to be able to provide for their children rather than rely on schools to do that. So National should wake up and smell the coffee, and realise that this bill will help those on the poverty line. It will help them with their education, and it will help businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EThe bill needs to come into effect now. I think Richard Prebble acknowledged that the dates New Zealand First is proposing should be brought forward, so that people get the benefit now. They desperately need it now. Those kids cannot keep on going to school on empty stomachs; they need that benefit now. So the bill has a huge flow-on effect, which starts with improved learning and a reduction in truancy, because when those kids stop learning at their early stages, they start to wag school. Then they start getting into petty crime, hanging around street corners, and marking buildings with graffiti. That then leads on to long-term crime. If we can stop that with this bill, and if this bill goes anywhere near helping that, then you have to support it. I am sorry, Mr Chairman, I brought you into that argument. We must support it, and everybody in this Parliament must support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4009d218a7e4b50bc5c46546af0e0bb\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Chairman supports it, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae8727d02ba4f61851305a572b89d44\u0022\u003EBRENT CATCHPOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe the Chairman does support it, but I did not want to bring him into it. He is neutral; he should sit there and not be brought into this discussion. In summary, this bill helps people to get into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022175abf02e11b4a278fed7296a228d93b\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: It does absolutely nothing for growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cf74bb3060a4ea0bf26ddbb7a84ada2\u0022\u003EBRENT CATCHPOLE\u003C/span\u003E: If it gets people into employment and helps businesses, surely that will improve growth. If we have additional people going into employment they will fill those gaps that businesses are crying out about. Businesses are crying out for additional staff, because they cannot get them. This legislation will help. With its benefits, businesses will be able to afford to take on those extra people, and be able to have improved employment and wealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ad02d80-0242-43c0-a0b6-862d72b3f978\u0022\u003EIn summary, this bill will go a long way to assisting people into employment. It will help children to go to school with full stomachs, and it will help businesses grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00225dc8bc50df7544e69562ba603cd94f71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dc8bc50df7544e69562ba603cd94f71\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I would like the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steve Maharey, to explain to the Committee\u2014because this is very important\u2014why this legislation is not being referred to a select committee. There is absolutely no reason why it should not be referred to a select committee. Nothing in this bill that I can find happens before 1 October. If there is something that happens before 1 October, then let the Minister get to his feet and tell us what that is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAnyone who knows anything about the interaction between our benefit system\u2014the way benefits abate, how those interact with our tax credit system, and how that interacts with our stepwise progressive income tax system\u2014knows that these issues are hugely complex. I tell the Minister in the chair that he and Dr Cullen are not the only people who have done a lot of work on this sort of stuff. If the Minister and Dr Cullen think they can stand in this Parliament and arrogantly say that the only way National could address this matter through the tax system is by giving massive tax cuts to certain people, they are showing they have not opened their minds to what is possible through innovative thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe Inland Revenue Department is involved in the policy work on the interaction between benefits, tax credits, and the income tax system. It is so complex\u2014and I would like the Minister to listen to this\u2014that the department has struggled at times to actually work out correctly how the system currently works. This legislation will make it even more complex. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EGiven the complexity of those interactions it is inexcusable that this bill is not going to a select committee. I wager there will be problems with what this bill is setting out. Let us forget the policy and forget for a moment what the Government is trying to do, because this Committee is meant to be scrutinising the detail of this bill because it is not going to a select committee. The Minister cannot guarantee there will not be huge problems because of a lack of scrutiny of the detail of this bill. It will go through all stages today, and there will be no detailed scrutiny in terms of what it does. I simply repeat that the issues are hugely complex.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI would not mind betting that the Minister in the chair probably does not even know how one calculates the net tax position of someone on a benefit, who receives tax credits, and also pays income tax. I would not mind betting that he has never actually worked it out. I would not mind betting, for example, that he probably does not even know how the different benefits and credits that this bill is talking about, abate\u2014whether they abate on gross income or net income, whether tax then applies, whether things have to be grossed up to sort out final tax commitments, and all that kind of thing. It is hugely complex, and I have studied it in some detail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThis legislation would be some of the more complex that we have seen before this Parliament, yet it is not even going to a select committee; and we know why. It is because this legislation is so poor. It is just tinkering with old systems and there is nothing new in it. It is fiddling with old systems that are already struggling to cope with the requirements. There is nothing wrong with helping low-income families. National supports that view. We support the relief for low-income working families. However, the problem with this legislation is that it uses old frameworks that are already failing to deliver properly, and turns tens of thousands more people into beneficiaries, when there is no need to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef35ee072d6d40e3913f5d1502ffa8ef\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022398ddd29f1b14a9aa1869d8e26953bb7\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I refer that member to clause 6, which states that the definition of \u201Cincome\u201D in section 3(1) of the principal Act is amended by excluding any tax credit or amount received under certain provisions of the Income Tax Act 2004, the Income Tax 1994, and its predecessor. I ask Darren Hughes what that means. He would not have a clue. I will tell him what that means. It means that tax credits are now being treated as benefits, because clause 6 refers to section 3(1) of the Social Security Act, which I have right here. Section 3(1) defines income for benefit testing, from what I can work out. We will see that tax credits will no longer be treated as income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022abd10c2b75614cbd8026436cd0d3f05f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abd10c2b75614cbd8026436cd0d3f05f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E This Parliament will regret 2004. There will be a time in future years when politicians of all persuasions will look back at this measure and ask why on earth our entire focus was on scrapping over the crumbs left on the plate, rather than on trying actually to grow the pie so that there could be reasonable distribution to all. That is the answer here. It is to do with economic growth. For most people out in radioland the words \u201Ceconomic growth\u201D are words that spring off the tongues of politicians but do not mean much. I say to ordinary voters that it is to do with our ability to pay\u2014that is, our ability actually to fund quality health-care, our ability to provide first-class education services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThis Government set a laudable aim when it first came in. It was going to return our gross domestic product (GDP) to being within the top half of the OECD. Again, for the ordinary punter \u201CGDP\u201D is just three letters, and sounds like it stands for the German Democratic Republic or something, but it is actually to do with our ability to pay. It is our wealth. GDP per capita is the wealth of individuals\u2014we divide the value of the total economic pie by the number of people. In this Budget we see that growth in our ability to pay is forecast to increase at absolutely pathetic levels; it is forecast to be less over the next 10 years\u2014this is Dr Cullen\u2019s own Treasury\u2019s forecast\u2014than we have already experienced. That is a recipe for slipping even further behind. So we will be back here in 10 years, with people still not getting heart surgery or hip replacements, and with kids still not getting access to quality education and still fighting over student loans. Why? Because we will be slipping further and further down the tree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E I found that the Catching the Knowledge Wave conference had some exciting figures for us. It showed that our GDP per capita, which was once second in the world, has continued to slide, and\u2014listen to this\u2014we were passed 3 years ago by Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is now wealthier per person than us. Slovenia passed us last year. The forecast on the Standard and Poor\u2019s McKenzie website suggests that Uruguay will pass us by 2010, which is about when some of these benefits come in. So what we are doing is sitting here and scrapping and arguing over how we redistribute some of the crumbs instead of over how the hell we grow the pie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EDuring this debate I have heard a few things from Dr Cullen that are a bit rich. He got up and started screaming on about whether the National Party would repeal this legislation. Well, \u201Crepeal\u201D is not normally the solution for anything to do with income support; \u201Creplace\u201D is normally the word. And, my word, I am happy to commit to replacing this legislation with stuff that works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EBut let me get to the rich stuff from Dr Cullen. I have a list this long, which I am soon to publish, of the absolute promises from Labour as to what it would repeal when it got into office. I will give the absolute mother of all the repeals: the Maritime Transport Act. When that bill was going through this House Labour members sat here every night and said: \u201CWhen we are in Government it will be gone\u2014gone by lunchtime.\u201D That is what they said, but for the 5 years they have been in Government they have not touched it\u2014not a mutter, not a murmur, not a sausage. It was the same with the benefit cuts in 1991. When Ruth Richardson carried out what was a desperately needed measure because of economic mismanagement by the previous Labour Government, and actually did cut benefits, what did those members say? They said it was an outrage and a disgrace. They said it was just unacceptable and they would not tolerate it. When they were elected to Government in 1999, did they reinstate benefit levels back to where they were? No, they did not. Did they do it in 2000? No, they did not. Did they do it in 2001? No, they did not. I could not have more fun than this! So we do not want Dr Cullen shedding crocodile tears about whether we will repeal this measure, because, quite frankly, the public have had a gutsful of promises to repeal that have never come through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EIf I ever want a touchstone, a measure of whether the National Party is on the right track, it is my old mate the Rev. Charles Waldegrave. If he thinks something is good, people had better look out, because there is a man who has got it wrong on every occasion in the past. I am proud to be opposing this bill, and I want the Minister for Social Development and Employment to tell us why it has to be debated under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1a03347439b4c2e807ab9d1aae17a5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1a03347439b4c2e807ab9d1aae17a5b\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E If I was inspired by any content of anybody\u2019s speech yesterday, it was when Dr Cullen really let loose and said he earns $200,000 a year and is determined to give something back to the people who put him here. He was a poor lad from Edmonton, close to where I come from in the UK, but a little bit nearer Tottenham Hotspur than I was\u2014I am not close to Tottenham Hotspur, at all! He said he wanted to give something back, and I thought that was an admirable sentiment. Then I looked at the bill and saw that he wants to give it back next year. We want to give it back this year, so on the Table there is an amendment in my name to clause 2 and other clauses that brings the date forward. If we are going to give something to families in this country, why wait a year? Let us give it to them now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI take the point that Maurice Williamson made\u2014and he made it very strongly\u2014that this bill might not be the best way of doing it. But, right now, we would sooner see some money in the pockets of poor families in this country than in the \u201CTreasurer\u2019s\u201D treasure chest. We do not want him to sit on a war chest at the expense of families in this country. There are families out there who have young children who are out on the streets selling their bodies for money. I would like to think that a little bit of compassion, a little bit of understanding, and a little bit of finance would solve, or at least ease, that problem. I do not want to wait until April next year. New Zealand First does not want to wait until then before things happen. That looks to me like a lolly-scramble, an election bribe\u2014nothing more, nothing less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe Greens will support our bringing the dates forward, ACT will support our bringing the dates forward, and I think National will support our bringing the dates forward\u2014although National members oppose the bill, they can support our bringing the dates forward. So I ask the members of United Future what they will do.  It will come down to the United Future members\u2014who are not awake at the moment. If they come alongside and vote to bring forward the dates, then we can do business with Dr Cullen and Mr Maharey, and we can test their allegiance to families in this country. We can test whether they really mean to do something to help people, or are just having a lolly-scramble that will make them look good a month or so out from the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI do not know whether the contents of this bill are sound. I would have preferred this bill to go through the process of select committee scrutiny. That is where the bill should have gone. I cannot see the point of our sitting here in urgency to pass a bill that does not take any meaningful effect until April next year. We could have done things properly and listened to submissions. So New Zealand First is prepared to say: \u201CWe will go with you, Labour. We will go with the Government. You might not have got it right\u2014we have not found all that we are looking for\u2014but we will go with you. But we want it delivered now.\u201D We want the promises delivered now. We want the date of April next year changed to July this year. It can be done, and we want the outgoing years 2006 and 2007 changed to 2005 and 2006. That is the challenge. As soon as I finish this call, I am going to talk to the officials and find out the practicalities of that, but I cannot see, from reading this bill, any hindrance whatsoever to the Government\u2019s bringing this measure in now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI hope the United Future members subscribe to that view. Those members have been loud and clear. I heard Mr Dunne say loudly and clearly that the United Future members are fighting for families. Well, we want them to fight for achieving something now, not next year. He made a big noise saying that until United Future came on board no one had mentioned the word \u201Cfamily\u201D. Well, we are saying that if this legislation is to have a good effect on families, it should be brought in now. There is a war chest of money there. Let us give some money back to the average New Zealanders out there who are suffering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022003d6c456ad148018cfb9f6d5fcf9105\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022003d6c456ad148018cfb9f6d5fcf9105\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of United Future to speak to Part 1 of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. What an amazing night it was last night! The outcomes for families in this bill are certainly more substantial than any proposal I have heard to date from Opposition parties. In fact, I would challenge National members in particular, who are talking about replacing this legislation, to flesh it out for us and tell us with what they intend to replace it. Certainly, nothing they have spoken of previously would lead us to believe that families will be better off with anything they are proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe gap has widened between benefit-derived incomes and work-derived incomes, and the moral mandate, alone, to address that gap is huge. The evidence is unmistakable, and my understanding and memory serves me to say that Muriel Newman from ACT has often brought to the attention of the House the fact that children in working families\u2014statistically anyway\u2014do better, on a whole range of measurable outcomes. Here now is the chance for families, previously disadvantaged through pursuing employment, to be on the winning team. The only conclusion I can come to is that the ACT party, and possibly its National Party friend, prefers sticks to carrots when it comes to encouraging families to take up the opportunity to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E However, United Future does see some areas that need improving over time, and I will mention a couple of those. The first is the foster care allowance, which is still, even under this legislation, substantially better than the unsupported child allowance. For grandparents raising grandchildren, that is a real issue. Even the Children\u2019s Commissioner has highlighted the concerns she has regarding grandparents, who are often on fixed superannuation incomes, having to deal with children who come into their care. We have to understand what the issues are for those families. By and large, they are raising traumatised children who have come out of extremely difficult situations. Therefore, it is often difficult for the grandparents to work; their hands are full in dealing with those children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4b38a4640f4418c8e2df3f065c5458b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Why wait 2 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238527ea2a02f46b4bba4b080c3a1922e\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER\u003C/span\u003E: They will not be helped even in 2 years\u2019 time, because the grandparents have to be working grandparents to get the full benefit of what is on offer here. And the truth is that many of those grandparents give up work to put time into those children who are in a bad way. So in terms of future directions for this legislation, United Future would like to see some real improvements. We would like to see, of course, that those kinship caregivers are given the full foster-care status we believe they are due.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe other interesting area United Future still wants to champion, of course, is income splitting. What income splitting does, and what this bill does not do, is recognise the contribution of a parent at home. In fact, what the Government is saying, and what it was saying even prior to this legislation, is that it will supplement children through proxy childcare, but it will not specifically recognise parents who stay at home and do exactly the same job. United Future is concerned about that, and we think it is something that can be addressed in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe are also concerned that this legislation lets employers who employ low and medium income workers off the hook a little bit, with regard to the improvement in the wages they pay. I would like to invite the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steve Maharey, to explain to us the new, rules-based approach to the new, temporary, additional support benefit. United Future understands that very low-income beneficiary families in particular have unexpected circumstances that crop up\u2014the whiteware breaks down or a dental bill comes\u2014and the income they receive does not stretch far enough for them to cover those kinds of eventualities. So we understand the need for an opportunity to jump in sometimes and help out. What we are not clear about, and what we would like the Minister to explain to us, is whether these new rules make any difference to the numbers of families with ongoing debt-management problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022298baa0b3c004fdbbfdad0c61862bc95\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Sue Bradford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201554e40d87d4b019ff5c9fb3a3ecb2d\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The ACT party has been seeking the call. We had one call with the Hon Richard Prebble. We have sought the call while you have given three calls to National, two to New Zealand First, one to United Future, and now one to the Green Party. Is there a reason for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022543ef7d47cd0483eb1845ede4d254726\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for her contribution. I look at the proportionality in the Chamber, and ACT is certainly within that consideration. At the moment the Green Party has not had one call, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u002239da63885328469c924f61d005fce3cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239da63885328469c924f61d005fce3cd\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is tabling an amendment to Part 1 of this bill, in which we seek to repeal clauses 12 and 23. To be realistic about things, we are not particularly hopeful of the chances of our amendment passing, but I am putting it forward because I think it is important to highlight the dangers in changing so substantially the special benefit regime, especially given the lack of opportunity for public consultation. With this bill being rushed through the House under urgency, all the people and groups who would normally have had plenty of time to make considered submissions on changes to the Social Security Act and to the taxation laws are being denied that chance, and probably in most cases they are simply unaware of the detail of the reforms that are being made in these clauses. The Green Party amendment that I am putting before the Committee in effect reverses the part of the bill that repeals section 61G of the Social Security Act and sets up a new system called temporary additional support. The impact of what the Government is doing here is to remove statutory discretion for the payment of the special benefit. Its replacement, called temporary additional support, is likely to subject a small, but very vulnerable, number of beneficiaries to greater poverty than is currently experienced by anyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ETo give just one example of how that could work in future, I will take the situation of a single invalids beneficiary with very high disability costs. The person, who lives rurally, has to travel significant distances twice weekly at a cost of, say, $200 per week for the treatment of a chronic medical condition, because that treatment is available only at the nearest city. On current rates, the disability allowance to cover the costs of travel for the treatment is capped at just over $48 a week. The proposed cap on the temporary additional support at 30 percent of the main benefit rate would result in maximum temporary additional support, at the current invalids benefit rate, of $61.55 a week. Any disability-related costs above $109 per week would have to be met out of the person\u2019s invalids benefit itself. In this example those costs would amount to $90.27, leaving the beneficiary with only $114.91 a week to meet everyday living expenses. By contrast, under the current special benefit regime, although there is a guideline cap of 30 percent of the allowable costs, there is still discretion for departmental staff to exceed that if the beneficiary\u2019s individual circumstances justify it. A special benefit of $152 would be likely to be paid in respect of the disability-related travel costs of the beneficiary I have just described. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIn effect what we will see is a big benefit cut for some people\u2014an unknown number of individuals and families\u2014who in the future will find themselves in all sorts of difficult situations beyond their control. I am not sure whether the Government is clear about the impact of what it is doing here. While, of course, we applaud Labour\u2019s moves to improve income support levels for families, we are disturbed that these major changes to the special benefit regime are being slipped in within the context of what is mainly a beneficial piece of legislation\u2014and under urgency, to boot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge, of course, the many difficulties there have been with the administration of the special benefit. Globally, we do not support third-tier benefits and would like to see a much simpler benefit system in this country, but while we continue to work with the fractured mosaic of the Social Security Act and all its amendments we need to do the best we can, and we wonder whether Labour actually intended to implement this benefit cut. I would welcome a response from the Government on that. We know there have been a lot of problems. Many people are not getting the special benefit they are entitled to at the moment, and people are treated very differently depending on the part of the country they live in. But we also know there has been a long and an arduous consultation process between the beneficiary advocacy groups and the Ministry of Social Development. I do not know whether those groups are aware of what is being implemented here today. I call on parties like New Zealand First and United Future, and possibly even Labour if it has not understood what it is doing here, to support my amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOn a final note, I would like to say that the Green Party will be supporting Peter Brown\u2019s amendments to bring the dates of implementation of this bill forward, because we too would like to see as much as possible of the additional resources going into families now, or as soon as possible, rather than waiting to see the implementation of the legislation dragged out over the next 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002221083274d43847248cbf2cd62e240525\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221083274d43847248cbf2cd62e240525\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I am looking forward to hearing from Deborah Coddington, but as I think we have gone through about 10 speakers from various parties it is important for me to begin to respond to some of what they have said. We began, after Michael Cullen\u2019s speech, with Katherine Rich, who, in an almost \u201DPythonesque\u201D way, continues to rise in the Chamber to ask what is in this Budget for working families. If one has ever seen the Life of Brian one will remember the wonderfully comic scene that always come to mind whenever Katherine rises in the Chamber\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fee9667937b147928eaf270d7464ff60\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot refer to single names. I refer him to Speakers\u2019 rulings 26/6 and 26/7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ebdc6e1dd904483abb8b6ee33b61971\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to ask what is in the bill. All I can say in response is this: apart from the accommodation supplement, childcare subsidy, out-of-school care rates, family support, and in-work payment, what is in this Budget for the working family? \u201CAll right\u201D, Katherine Rich would probably say, \u201Cwhat is in this Budget apart from accommodation supplements, in-work payments, family support, and out-of-school childcare for the ordinary working family?\u201D Well, I have to say there is even more: there is the unsupported child\u2019s benefit and the orphans benefit. Katherine Rich would probably then say: \u201CAll right, apart from all those things, what is in this Budget for the working family?\u201D. It all adds up to an average of about $66 for families earning between $25,000 and $45,000. That will go right up for that Waihi family, although a member of that family will probably be standing for ACT at the next election. He or she may stand against us, but even that family is about to have $150 coming into its household. So I would say to Katherine Rich that there is a lot in this Budget for those families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EMr Gerry Brownlee, representing the National Party\u2019s sudden concern for low-income families, came into the Chamber and asked us how dreadful and how awful things could get. The New Zealand Herald has a headline that states this Budget is \u2018One for the kids\u2019, so Gerry Brownlee asked how awful things could get. If Katherine Rich is \u201CPythonesque\u201D, Gerry Brownlee is the Goon Show! It becomes incredible when we have National Party members come to the Chamber and say they would hate to have that headline about a future National Government\u2019s Budget. I just ask every National Party spokesperson to please stand up and hold that headline against his or her head as he or she says that, because we would love the cameras to come in and film them while they repeat the New Zealand Herald headline. I thank Gerry Brownlee for pointing that out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ERichard Prebble asked why we are not sending this bill to a select committee. Also, to leap forward to Dr Lockwood Smith\u2019s contribution, as I think we could call it, he asked the same question. I will tell members why we are not doing so. We have to introduce rules and processes by 1 October in order to ensure we can begin to dispense money to people through the new changes. I have to have legislation through so that I can do that. That is the reason the money will be able to be distributed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76338255f994a52b10859c2409653cd\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: Whose money is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f1a6c0f0b24a9eab2abe58129a37c9\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: It is New Zealanders\u2019 money. They pay taxes and they ask their Government to use that money wisely, and we are doing just that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EMr David Carter asked why we do not have taxation cuts. He asked why we could not have a taxation cut across the board so all the hard-working, well-off people could get more than the people who are hard-working but on a low income. He asked why we could not, in National\u2019s terms, give 19c a week to low-income New Zealanders and $400 or $500 to Don Brash. I suppose, once again, we are happy to go to the people of New Zealand at the election, whenever that may be, and say that is the choice, and they, as an average New Zealand household, can either have 19c from a taxation cut by the ACT-National coalition if it were in power, or up to $160 from this coalition. I am happy to campaign on that, so I hope Mr David Carter will carry on arguing for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI thought Mr Catchpole gave a very good speech, looking at how the different parts of this Budget would help education and business\u2014all the practical things the Budget is intended to do. It was a good speech. I have not heard New Zealand First members getting up and speaking uncritically. They have asked us to bring the implementation dates forward, and I put it on the record that we cannot do that because this is a Budget, and the Budget allocates money in a time frame. Therefore, we cannot have the money come forward. What we cannot do at the moment is to bring the dates forward in the way the member would like. I will skip over Dr Lockwood Smith, because I have already mentioned his point. In relation to the Hon Maurice Williamson, all I can say is that he has to let it go\u2014the maritime legislation has been passed. It was passed a long time ago, and he has to stop grieving. After a while he has to stop grieving and move on. If the Prime Minister were here, she would say, in a counselling kind of way: \u201CMove on, Mr Maurice Williamson, you cannot keep grieving forever.\u201D Mr Peter Brown, once again, made an excellent speech. It was largely about the implementation times, and I have dealt with that. Judy Turner is always incisive about what is going on here in the Chamber. She is not uncritical of this bill. Members from those parties have always said they support this measure, but they have something they would like to add to it. Sue Bradford has just done exactly that, and I want to touch on the point she has made about temporary supplementary assistance, which replaces special benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe issue regarding the replacement of the special benefit is very simple. When we came into office a very small group of people was getting access to the special benefit. There were people who should have been getting it, but the National Party had been too mean to give it to them, so we began to ensure they could receive it. All that meant was more and more people had to migrate into the third tier, so they could get the income they should have been getting. We are paying about $63 million in special benefits at the present time, and we are looking at forecasts of paying $70 million or $80 million. That is not the way to run a benefit system. People should not have to come up to the third tier to get their money from there. We are essentially moving all that money forward, and saying that we want to return to the essential purpose of the special benefit, which is to be temporary assistance when people are genuinely in hardship. As Bob Stephens said today at the Child Poverty Action Group breakfast, this is a good move because it means paying money upfront. People should not now need to apply for those special benefits. Therefore, we can return to the original purpose of that benefit, which was temporary assistance when genuine hardship was being felt. I think that is a good move. We will see how we go, but I think one can tell, from the point of view of the Greens, who are concerned about people getting their entitlements, that we are being serious. We have moved from paying about $7 million in special benefits to about $63 million now, and the figure is growing. We are trying to move all that money forward, and to pay it to people earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI am about to sit down so that people can rip into this debate again, but I do want to hear from the National Party and the ACT party about what they will do on 1 October this year, when we allow changes to the accommodation supplement that will put more money into people\u2019s pockets. I want to know whether the press releases from Deborah Coddington and Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith are ready. When those changes come in on 1 October this year will those members be putting out a press release to voters, stating that they would not give them the money? On 4 October, when the childcare subsidy and the out-of-school care rates change, which will put about $23 a week into households with children, will the press releases be ready to go, stating those members would not give that $23 a week to those people on 4 October? What about the changes to invalids benefits rules this year? The National Party says it wants to move those people off benefits and into work, but it never says how it would do that, apart from threatening to cut their benefits or to reassess them, or whatever. When a positive move for getting more money for the invalids benefit is introduced in December this year, will the National Party have press releases ready, stating it would not give those beneficiaries more money? On 1 April next year, when 260,000 families receive a $25 increase in their family support, will the National Party have press releases ready to go, stating that no, it would not allow those families to get $25 a week more or $15 a week more for each child? That is what I want to hear about from the National Party and ACT spokespeople. Will the press releases be ready in October, in December, and on 1 April next year, when a bulk of money will go into those households? Let us hear whether those parties are ready to go and say that no, New Zealanders will not get that money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u002223f9848a8a8f47adb2e2c5ca70e3267d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223f9848a8a8f47adb2e2c5ca70e3267d\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The Hon Steve Maharey said it all when he kept going on and on about press releases, because that is what this bill is all about. It is all about public relations. He is obsessed with public relations. If what he says is so great, why wait until 1 October or 1 April to bring it in? Why not do it now? That is why, as Richard Prebble said, we will be supporting Peter Brown\u2019s amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EIt is outrageous that this bill is not going to a select committee, as several members have already pointed out. We all know why the bill will not go to a select committee. It is because the Government is scared of the submissions that would come in. This is the ultimate in redistribution of wealth. Labour has finally, once and for all, abandoned the worker. It has abandoned all pretence of supporting the worker. One of Labour\u2019s supporters, Chris Trotter, even said that himself yesterday on television. He is no supporter of the ACT party, but he damned this Budget because there is nothing in it for working people. It will take working people into welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThis Government, and several other parties, have said how this bill will support families. This bill will do nothing for families. Welfare in this country has destroyed families. It is absolutely destroying families. Anybody who is concerned about families in this country would get tough on welfare. The only person who had the fortitude to be tough on welfare was Ruth Richardson in her Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227165e20d66a4407a9dddf9dd780ac13c\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u0027Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Are you proud of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226006c31e0ceb4cfe8bd3bbbcd37bfa4f\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON\u003C/span\u003E: The member should do the research. I am not proud of this country\u2019s appalling rate of teenage pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases, and abortions. What happened when Ruth Richardson cut the benefit? Those rates all went down. Read the research. If we give people incentives to have babies, they will have them. As P J O\u2019Rourke said: \u201CIf I can\u2019t be part of the fun in making these babies, why should I pay for them?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThis bill will punish those who work hard. Dr Cullen is destroying this country. Why should we take from those who have, just because they have it? What sort of message does that send to everyone out there? Giving 300,000 households more money to spend will make Dr Cullen and the Hon Steve Maharey feel great, but it will come at a huge cost to this country. Brian Fallow, in this morning\u2019s New Zealand Herald had it right. He said that New Zealand now, and for the last few years, has been trying to live a First World lifestyle on Third World incomes. What have we done? We have just given ourselves a huge pay rise. The country is going to go down. There will not be growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe Hon Steve Maharey asked us whether, if ACT were in power on 1 October, it would say it would take the money back from people. The ACT party will not ever have to say that because it would not take the money off them in the first place. Whose money is it? Why should people not have the right to keep their own money and spend it how they see fit, instead of having a nanny State, bossyboots Government tax workers into oblivion? The New Zealand First Party said it would get people into work. Where? Where will the jobs be? What businesses will make jobs available, when they have to cope with all this other legislation that is strangling them and driving them across the Tasman in droves? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe new employment relations legislation and the Holidays Act that came in are the obstacles to job growth. They are the things that, in conjunction with a bill like this, keep people in welfare. Keeping people dependent on the State is one of the worst things we can ever do to them. It is the worst thing anyone can ever do to anyone, and this Government is doing it. The only incentive for families to do any better is to go from work to welfare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EDr Cullen talked about a surplus. A surplus used to mean a genuine mistake by the Government in taking more tax than it spent\u2014what is not required for the purpose in hand. A surplus now means a calculated scheme of money collection, for redistribution in election year. Those are not my words. Those are words from a document that came out this morning from the Maxim Institute. These are real issues. The institute bases its opinions on sound values, supported by United Future, and supported by New Zealand First, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022 data-id=\u0022639d079d28954e5aa530643fcdbc1929\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022639d079d28954e5aa530643fcdbc1929\u0022\u003EDr LYNDA SCOTT (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E This debate today, on the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, really demonstrates the difference between socialism and capitalism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c565514bcdac4a7ba7887b627e7dc573\u0022\u003EHon Steve Maharey\u003C/span\u003E: It does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1daaa2e85f84e519999dbce443c8a2f\u0022\u003EDr LYNDA SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely! Steve Maharey was my sociology lecturer at Massey University. We used to call him \u201CThe Marxist Man from Massey\u201D. He was known everywhere as that. He has now entered Parliament, to put into practice his Marxist philosophy and principles. We see that in this Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. Rather than leaving money in the pockets of individuals, rather than leaving it in the pockets of families, to allow them to have freedom, to have choice, to decide how they want to spend their money, this Government overtaxes and puts the money into Treasury, and then the Government decides how it will hand it back to certain people. That gives the Government a huge amount of State control, to determine how it will hand it back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003ENew section 61GA, inserted by clause 13, relates to childcare assistance. Of course, it is available only if parents use State sector providers. They cannot use the private sector. This Government will not let the private sector be involved in health or education, because of ideology. It is not because the private sector does not work as well. In many cases, it works a whole lot better. There are efficiencies that are driven, because private sector providers have to be absolutely responsible to the people who are buying the service from them, and that is the driver for much better quality. This Government, being socialist to the core, wants to determine how the individual, the family, can spend their own money. The Government will tell those people; it will not give them choice and freedom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003ENew section 44A, inserted by clause 7, relates to the invalids benefit. I have to say that I agree with the trial period of employment. I think that a lot of people, especially in the mental health area, become very unwell. As they recover it is very difficult for them to go back into full-time employment. Having a trial period of employment is a very good thing to be able to help people back on the road to recovery. But if we look at mental health and at what this Government is doing in the Budget, it is just continuing to put in the blueprint money that has always been there. Rather than having better systems that treat more people, we see that in Auckland 1.7 percent of the population used to be treated, and now it is down to 1.6 percent. Despite more money, fewer people are being treated and in a less timely fashion. We have quite a crisis in mental health services, due to the delivery of that care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EClause 8 covers an increase in the funeral grant. Yesterday, I attended the funeral of a friend. She is the second friend of my age to die of breast cancer in the last 2 months. It was an extremely sad occasion. Both my friends developed breast cancer in their early 40s, and I would very much like to see the age for free breast-screening reduced to 40. That may have done something positive for this mum of two children, because I say that this Budget will not do anything for them. It will not give them any money, whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d663e8afa549218bb7369d0a2f68e8\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Tell the whole story. National never trained anybody. [Interruption] Just 16 people a year. We can\u2019t possibly keep up, if we train only 16 people a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fdc5cc145d54da583f734564c0edbdd\u0022\u003EDr LYNDA SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: The chief Government whip harangues me, and screams and shouts across the Chamber. But who set up the breast-screening programme? It was the National Government that set it up. I suggest that Ms Pettis takes a call, because her screaming across the Chamber is just annoying everybody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EThis Budget is totally about wealth redistribution, not wealth creation. Let us look at the money spent on health in the OECD, and take a look at Ireland. Ireland was spending a very low amount on health, but the amount has increased in the last few years because of its OECD growth\u2014because growth in that economy is increasing. National will talk about this a great deal. If the salaries coming into those families\u2014which will be getting a measly $15 or $20 extra a week from this bill\u2014went up by that amount, they would be far better off. If this economy was growing, if salaries were increasing, then they would be better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u00226e1d2364133d4b63b6d514b8e6914161\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e1d2364133d4b63b6d514b8e6914161\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E There has been a lot of talk about whether this bill is about giving money to beneficiaries, with the ACT party often saying this is about robbing Peter to pay Paul. I would like us to look at some statistics with regard to beneficiaries, because that has also been a topic of great discussion. If we go back to 1999 when National was in Government and look at how many beneficiaries we had, and then see what is happening today with domestic purposes beneficiaries, in 1999 we had 110,067, and in 2004 we have 108,851.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269596b70bd844e51826734128eb8dfbe\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What about invalids?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022906b140d393d4a25baca582b5b0a1129\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK\u003C/span\u003E: We will come to that in a moment. So there has been a reduction in domestic purposes beneficiaries of 1 percent, despite ACT claiming about 18 months ago that we supported the Government in assisting some people on that benefit to hold on to more of their income when they did go out to work and that this was going to result in a huge increase of numbers on the domestic purposes benefit. That has not happened; we have reduced it by 1 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe number of unemployment beneficiaries has reduced by 48 percent since 1999. The number of sickness beneficiaries has increased by 28 percent. That is a concern to us. The number of invalids beneficiaries has increased by 39 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290f138da3ea04da69732a2cfa20f363c\u0022\u003EOpposition Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c15ff2c809a40c985a146807212650c\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK\u003C/span\u003E: Before members opposite crow too much, we need to note that the net result, since 1999, is that the number of beneficiaries has reduced by 14 percent. So the Government must be doing something that is working, and working for the benefit of all New Zealanders. It is too easy for the Opposition to suggest that numbers have decreased because people have switched benefit, because there has been a reduction overall of 14 percent. I do not see anything in this Budget that will lead to a blowout in the number of beneficiaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EWith regard to the domestic purposes benefit, I welcome the initiatives in the Budget that will enable these hard-working single mothers and fathers to be able to hold on to more of the money they earn when they go out to work, because it has always been ridiculous that, on one side of the Chamber, people say that we need to get those people out into \u201Creal\u201D work, as though the only real work is paid employment, when we know they are working very hard raising their children. My mother did when she raised six children, all on her own. She worked very hard, and she still got on her bike, at 6.30 in the morning, and went to clean the annexe at the public hospital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EIt is ridiculous that we take money off those people when they go out to work so they end up working for some miserable hourly rate, like $4 or $5. I welcome the fact that the Budget adjusts that situation. I believe it provides a greater incentive for more domestic purposes beneficiaries to find paid employment, but not at the risk of neglecting their children, who need to have time with that single parent. I speak out positively in support of that part of the Budget, and completely refute ACT\u2019s claims that somehow this will lead to a huge blowout in the numbers because people will have more children just so they can live off the State. That is a ridiculous argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington said that the benefit cuts in 1991 resulted in a reduction in the number of teenage pregnancies, and so on, and that this Budget would result in a huge increase. That is ridiculous, too. I would like to partner with Deborah Coddington, if she wishes, in attacking the Family Planning Association for the ridiculous sex education it provides in our schools, and join her in upholding a standard that adults might live by in this country so that our young people would have a better role model in the way they conduct themselves. That would be a worthwhile cause, but to blame this Budget for what might happen in the future in terms of more teenage pregnancies, more sexually transmitted diseases, and so on, is absolutely ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EUnited Future will not be supporting New Zealand First\u2019s amendment to change the commencement dates. If I seek to take another call on this matter, I hope the Chair will acknowledge me, so I can finish this discussion and give New Zealand First a good understanding of why we will not be supporting the amendment. When Peter Brown was speaking about the amendment he asked why the provisions could not all be brought in now. That is a huge worry, if we think about it. New Zealand First was saying yesterday that it would be forming part of the next Government, but Peter Brown does not seem to understand that one cannot come into the Chamber this morning with an amendment that disregards all the Treasury projections, all the budgetary projections, and just say that we should pay it all out now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca2f5fae025f4e41a9ee55b362c7e60d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca2f5fae025f4e41a9ee55b362c7e60d\u0022\u003EBILL GUDGEON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Approximately 18 to 20 months ago I had the honour and privilege of attending the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association conference in Namibia. As I observed the lifestyle of the people, I could not help but notice the bars on all the residential buildings. I noticed the difference in lifestyle between the people who lived there. They have the rich and the very poor. In fact we were warned not to walk around in the streets, because of the threat of being knocked about a bit and robbed. We had the privilege of visiting the very poor areas, and we saw people selling, to make a living, the sort of rubbish that we would throw in the rubbish dump. We did not venture into the very poorest areas, because of a possible threat to our safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267be40ae35ac4aacac1e0c3047c19375\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e98f91593264945bcd2afb933178d31\u0022\u003EBILL GUDGEON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mapp vouches for that. We visited some of the rehabilitation areas provided for people who have come out of prison. We saw them making an effort to grow vegetables in the dust, in an irrigation system that they had created. In this debate I have listened to the figures and percentages, and the toing and froing about why we should or should not help people. I say the No. 1 reason we are in Parliament is to assist people. I have heard the question asked in this Chamber this very day as to why the very rich should give to those who have nothing. Some have asked why the well-off should give to those who have nothing. I want to quote from the book His Way: A Biography of Robert Muldoon: \u201CMuldoon could not bring himself to vote with the Labour Opposition against National welfare cuts in November 1991, but his expression showed his feelings and he abstained from voting.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003EFormer Governments have put some citizens of this country in a situation where we need to have a Budget like this to try to get them back on their feet. New Zealand First supports this bill, firstly, because it will help to assist these people, regardless of their situation. Maybe they are there through no fault of their own or anybody else\u2019s, but they are citizens of this nation. Sir Apirana Ngata, in the 1930s, said the social welfare system would be the downfall of many. Who created that system? The policies put in place created this situation. Now we have a Budget that has seen the light and is trying to sort this out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003EMaybe amendments will be needed, but the effort has been made to assist people to get on their feet, so they can become independent of the State. This Budget, with some fine-tuning, will begin to fulfil the aspirations of every individual in this nation. Not only do we need to get people off benefits but also we need to look at the other assets in the way of education, health, and, especially, law and order. This society will never be a balanced society if we cut off those people who are struggling. So it is our responsibility, as parliamentarians, to assist people all we can to become independent of the State. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022874f68d6cf904a53978756127adaaadf\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: This makes thousands more dependent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250249ff626fe4bcabd8e359d76768875\u0022\u003EBILL GUDGEON\u003C/span\u003E: It does not make thousands more dependent. Why did a former Prime Minister, Sir Robert Muldoon, not support National in trying to cut the welfare system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00227df64bd60e2d424fb6536e9d0147be32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227df64bd60e2d424fb6536e9d0147be32\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E This Budget can properly be described as half a Budget. It is all about redistribution; there is nothing about growth. And Mr Maharey knows that. One of the extraordinary things in this Budget is that even after what purports to be a distribution, there is a surplus of $5.5 billion. The Dominion Post got that right when it said to the Government that it was overachieving with the surplus, so to make less effort, please. What did it say about the other issue of tax cuts? That it was not astrophysics\u2014 \u201Cstubbornly refuses to attend class, and throws rocks at those who do.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EYesterday we heard the Minister rave on\u2014because that is what he did, giving a lecture to business as to why there should not be a tax cut and why corporate taxes in New Zealand had to be the highest in the Asia-Pacific region. That is why this Budget is anti-growth. It is all about redistribution. It is anti-growth, and that is why it is half a Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ELet us think of the alternatives. I think that everyone would acknowledge there needs to be a surplus, but does it have to be $5.5 billion? The answer is: absolutely not. Let us, for instance, say that $4 billion might have been a reasonable target. That is, another $1.5 billion could have been returned to New Zealanders. A corporate tax cut would have cost $450 million, which still leaves $1 billion available for a tax cut across the board, even when every part of this Budget is delivered. Every part of it could have been delivered, plus a tax cut to every taxpayer in New Zealand, plus a tax cut for corporate entities. It is extraordinary, is it not, when that opportunity was there and a $4 billion surplus could still have been delivered, that that opportunity would be turned down. So that is why we on this side of the House say this Budget is anti-growth and only half a Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWe also say that it ignores real needs; when the opportunity is there to make a redistribution, that is the sign of failure. New Zealand First has put forward a proposal to bring the family package forward by 1 year. National will support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIt is extraordinary, is it not, that members of the party that is the lapdog to the Government, day in, day out, have got up in this House and said: \u201COh, no, we couldn\u2019t do anything so reckless as that.\u201D Let me tell Mr Baldock that there is a $5.5 billion surplus, and it does not take rocket science to work out that voting for an earlier package is doable. On top of that, there could even be a tax cut for every New Zealander. Every single New Zealander could have benefited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ENow, it disturbs the Minister in the chair, Mr Maharey, to know\u2014[Interruption]\u2014apparently he did not know; he had not been told by the Minister of Finance\u2014that a $4 billion surplus was in fact doable. That would have been a responsible surplus; it would have enabled business to get ahead. I guess there could have been a headline that did not just say that kids benefited but that said kids, business, and New Zealand benefited. That would have been a better headline, but the Government refused that opportunity. So that is why National will be voting against the Government\u2019s bill today. It represents only a half-pie job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThis is surely a situation of missed opportunities. At a time when New Zealand is actually doing well\u2014which is not due to the Government but to external conditions\u2014we could have really given it an extra boost, and businesses could have had real benefit. There could have been a real reduction so that we were competitive with Australia instead of having to have the carping lecture we had from the Minister of Finance yesterday as to why it could not be done. Well, his own figures tell him his words were a lie. It could have been done, it could have boosted growth, but that was the opportunity the Government messed up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWe are not talking here about hard things to do. Those things were easy because there is a $5.5 billion surplus, not only for this period just gone by but for the future. It is that kind of missed opportunity that is so lamentable, and that is why this Budget will go down as a lost opportunity, as anti-growth, and as only half a Budget. Frankly, it deserves at best a C grade; there was an opportunity for an A grade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022e695a0e32b62465d8c6a9d70c404fbb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e695a0e32b62465d8c6a9d70c404fbb2\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E If there were ever a debate in this Parliament that defined what Tories stood for and meant, and what the Labour Party stood for, then this is it. What drives me more than anything in Parliament to be in the Labour Party is the difference in approach to what we call hard-working New Zealanders, and the difference in the way that a Government appreciates and deals with them; because a bunch of Tories, a bunch of mean-spirited, over-privileged Tories, think that the only way to get people producing and working harder\u2014if they are rich\u2014is to provide them with tax incentives; if people are poor or struggling, it is to drive them with a stick\u2014to threaten them with unemployment, and to tell them they have to accept $8 or $10 an hour, otherwise they will lose their jobs. Tories think that the only way to get more productivity from the top\u2014to get people who own businesses to do more, or people who get big salaries to do more\u2014is to give tax breaks and offer people more money and more security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWell, this Budget is about giving hard-working Kiwis, who struggle on $10 an hour, and who are trying to bring up families on $40,000 or $50,000 a year, some extra assistance. The Tories in the National Party will give to their privileged mates, time and time again, while they will ignore others. And they will not just ignore them. It is important this country knows that if that bunch of Tories ever gets back into Government they, like their mate Jenny Shipley and like their mate Ruth Richardson who is now running the ACT party, will drive down and cut benefits for good, hard-working New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI tell Mr Tisch, Mr Lockwood Smith, and Mr Mapp that people work hard at every tier of income in this country. In fact, I put to Mr Mapp, although he would not know it, that the less people\u2019s income, the harder they have to work to stay alive, the harder they have to work to bring up their kids in the way they want to, and the harder they have to work to keep their families together and build a future in this country. So the good, hard-working Kiwis he tries to bribe with tax cuts will not be looked after by the Tories. They will not look after people on low incomes or people who need the support of the State. We are looking after them, through this Budget, and there are so many ways we are doing it, acknowledged by the New Zealand Herald this morning\u2014thankfully. Finally, that paper has seen that we are looking after kids and hard-working New Zealanders. While we may not have provided the incentives National would have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240dcdbff62a341dd9001c461714e77bf\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: You could have done both. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c265f087165649899e1dbb10194cfe98\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: We have not done that. If Mr Mapp understood economics, he would know that the money we give to good, hard-working low and middle income New Zealanders will go back into the economy so that people in business will have an opportunity, if they are providing a good, fair service and a good product, to get access to that money. That will drive growth; that will drive opportunity; that will drive regional development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220562900361d4ecb8b9450851fc06e76\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: You could have done better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221beb05d65e164e7b8addbb0a0e2a26c6\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CCould have done better.\u201D, he says! We do not claim to be a perfect Government, but we know where we have to start to provide the benefits. We know who we have to support in this country, and it is not the privileged few that the ACT party as a bunch of Tories will support now and into the future. Anyone listening to this debate knows where that party stands and what it stands for. They know where ACT stands and what it stands for, and that is not looking after, considering, and caring for those hard-working families who deserve a break. We are giving them a break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022c00d7fe9d5f04e36b06409e25291f509\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c00d7fe9d5f04e36b06409e25291f509\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Dominion Post this morning features a couple\u2014Phil and Carol Andrews\u2014who are likely Labour and Green supporters. They were approached and asked how they felt about the Government\u2019s announced election bribe. Mr Andrews said: \u201CI would have been happier if they had done it with tax breaks rather than benefits. No one likes being a beneficiary.\u201D That is why we are standing here today. That is the distinction between National and Labour, which has low aspirations for our New Zealand people. Hard-working New Zealanders want a tax break. They aspire to stand on their own two feet. But what Labour is telling New Zealanders in this Budget that was very, very well labelled as \u201Chalf-pie\u201D by my learned colleague Dr Wayne Mapp is: \u201CDon\u2019t worry. Labour will take it from you and lock you into a life of being a beneficiary.\u201D, rather than assisting them to stand up and work their way by growing the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EWhy should even those 300,000 families be grateful? How did the Government ever get this surplus? How did the Government get this money? They taxed people. It was never \u201Cmoney man\u201D Dr Michael Cullen\u2019s money; it is hard-working New Zealanders\u2019 money. Labour took it away and now thinks that people should thank them for it. I think it is an outrage that Labour is wasting Parliament\u2019s time by keeping us here debating a bill that has no urgency. The only justification today for urgency is for Labour to support the New Zealand First amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EUnited Future, the party that is for family, should stand up this morning and say yes, it will go all the way for hard-working families and support the New Zealand First amendment to justify the reason why we are meeting here today in urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI have not heard a passionate speech made by the Minister about why Labour would not support the amendment put up by New Zealand First. If the Hon Steve Maharey, as I understood, has been battling with his Cabinet colleagues for a universal benefit structure, why can he not this morning stand up and give us a good reason, particularly to the 300,000 families who are supposed to benefit from this package, why it cannot be put in place now? I also want to challenge the Minister to stand up and answer some specific questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256765127a6d24e648c46340a94a6e390\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he think a $5.5 billion surplus is necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c26ccdc0230f4b079be6bfe7e85da18c\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good question. No. 1: why does the Minister for Social Development and Employment think a $5.5 billion surplus is necessary? I also want the Minister to explain what guarantee he will give to the public that the new benefit that he introduced\u2014the temporary additional support\u2014will not fall into the same category as the emergency unemployment benefit. There are people in New Zealand who have been on the emergency unemployment benefit for 19 years. So I would like the Minister to stand up and tell us whether there is a definition of \u201Ctemporary additional support\u201D. How temporary is it? Would it run to 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, or life?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac63d30f44864b289f7cca0107daf60a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac63d30f44864b289f7cca0107daf60a\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225afb40e1f68044b1a2df3f962eb4a248\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 8; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 41\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 22; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00223605d04a126a45599e8e75f27c60eda0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223605d04a126a45599e8e75f27c60eda0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Before we proceed, I have received a certificate under Standing Order 313 relating to amendments proposed to be moved in the Committee of the whole House. Under Standing Order 313, the Government does not concur with the following amendments being proposed: amendments moved by the honourable member Peter Brown to clause 4(1), (2), (3), (4), and (5); and amendments moved by the honourable member Sue Bradford to clauses 12 and 23, and schedule 3. I should mention, just in case members are wondering, that these are veto certificates that have vetoed the amendments because of the financial implications that they have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228c5ce28bb79947d58f8f935940abf226\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c5ce28bb79947d58f8f935940abf226\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I note that you have ruled out of order the amendment by New Zealand First to clause 4(3). I also note that the Minister has put in an amendment on that same clause. Are you suggesting that New Zealand First\u2019s amendments are out of order because of the veto, yet you are prepared to accept the Minister\u2019s amendment that came in just about 20 minutes ago, which covers exactly the same subclause that New Zealand First was trying to amend? I do not see how you can throw New Zealand First\u2019s amendment out and accept the Minister\u2019s one on the same subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236ad3a5523344635bab48c8162424427\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: It is my understanding that the Government has vetoed these particular amendments because of the consequential effects they would have on the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259cf45bb95764f40a3f03b2cf8dbdbc6\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The Minister\u2019s amendment is to clause 4 and states: \u201Cto omit from subclause (3) the expression \u20181 December 2004\u2019 and substitute the expression \u20181 July 2004\u2019 \u201D. New Zealand First\u2019s amendment has exactly the same intent, so how can you rule out New Zealand First\u2019s amendment on that subject because of a veto, when the Minister\u2019s one will be accepted? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5135fdf8a4342a19ca4e1c8a113a384\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5135fdf8a4342a19ca4e1c8a113a384\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Tisch raised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4ce4b096ec64aa2afc5a7cb4a9d434e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a new point of order, because we are dealing with one at the moment from the honourable member Lindsay Tisch? Does the member want to speak to this point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1ba1714498c4cd983f21ee4503da628\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to speak to the same point of order, and suggest, on behalf of my colleague, that we would very strongly urge the Government to consider exactly its use of the veto, when its changes are in the same section. We believe this is something that needs to be looked at with greater care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0588de6345948b79d257e7854df1850\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0588de6345948b79d257e7854df1850\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order\u2014because I know that the New Zealand First members want to know exactly what is going on with their change\u2014I point out that the legal advice from officials is that we needed to veto the clause, so all their amendments have been vetoed. But because we want to support what they are doing, we have simply put one in so that we can advance what they have asked for. It is the legal advice that has led to this, but we will advance what they are asking for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022af707ccea06945199372ec8b511757e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af707ccea06945199372ec8b511757e2\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E That is just a load of rubbish. Parliament itself determines how it receives information from Ministers relating to bills. If the legal advice is that the New Zealand First amendment is out of order, and should therefore be vetoed, it seems to me that it is only consistent if the Government\u2019s own amendment\u2014which is exactly the same\u2014should also be vetoed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI do not believe that the veto power given to a Minister and to the Government is there for the exercise of political preference. It is there to protect the Government against the excesses of changes to Budgets. Therefore, I think it would be quite unfair and unparliamentary for the Chair to accept that Mr Brown\u2019s amendment can be vetoed by the Government, but the Government itself can propose exactly the same arrangement and have it allowed. That is a Minister manipulating Parliament for political preferment, and I am not sure it would be a good thing for that to happen. While I welcome your comments on this, I would like to reserve our position until we get a ruling on this matter from the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022333fa60c3aaa4a10a0da69228e55d68c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022333fa60c3aaa4a10a0da69228e55d68c\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I note that Standing Order 301(2)(a) states: \u201CAn amendment proposed by the member in charge of the bill is taken ahead of an amendment proposed by another member, \u2026\u201D occurring at the same place in the bill. I would have thought that in this case, the Minister\u2019s amendment would be put first. That would then rule out New Zealand First\u2019s amendment, because the amendments say exactly the same thing, and then there would have been no need to put New Zealand First\u2019s amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWhat I have difficulty with\u2014as I have stated before, and as my colleague Gerry Brownlee has also indicated\u2014is that if you are using the reasoning of Standing Order 313 because it is a financial veto, I cannot see how you can say New Zealand First\u2019s amendments are ruled out because of the financial veto, but then accept the Minister\u2019s amendment, which says exactly the same thing. It is a contradiction. I believe you should have looked at Standing Order 301 first and used that as the reason for not accepting New Zealand First\u2019s amendments, and in particular the amendment to clause 4(3).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864721b4d0ab4426b3ea4b51215da10d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank Mr Tisch for the very considered summation he has made, and I appreciate that. I think a valid point was made. However, the Government veto applies to Mr Brown\u2019s amendments as a whole and, as a result, the certificates are taken as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a021c8489f0247c59b39e488fa0237e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a021c8489f0247c59b39e488fa0237e1\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I just seek some advice from the Chair. I have been calling for a speech on Part 1 of this bill for an hour and a half and, indeed, I called a point of order to alert the Chair to that effect before the vote was called. This bill is being heard under urgency, which means it will not be subject to the normal select committee scrutiny that a bill should be subject to. It is a very important bill, and I would like to know what a member has to do to get the call. I did have points to raise in Part 1 of the bill that have not been heard previously. Is it not reasonable that if somebody is seeking the call for over an hour and a half that that member is in fact called?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214daad61f6124d6e82908b4da2a5d631\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say to the member that the closure has been taken. I appreciate the point she has made. I did look at proportionality across Parliament, and that was the reason the closure motion was accepted. The Committee proportionality applies principally to fixed-time debates, if the member would like to look at Speaker\u2019s ruling 59/2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022062b2836339647789a01bd1c8baaa5eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022062b2836339647789a01bd1c8baaa5eb\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I seek leave to allow the Minister to explain why the amendment I put forward has received a fiscal veto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246f4ca082d064b618ab489214f64c7fc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The problem is that we are already in the voting stage of the bill, and under Speakers\u2019 rulings 1/5 and 1/6, the member is unable to seek leave on behalf of someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Steve Maharey to clause 4 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003Eto omit from subclause (3) the words \u201C1 December 2004\u201D and substitute the words \u201C1 July 2004\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d46e388cdd44642b460023d077a9f30\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 80\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 8; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 29\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 22; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022592bf0132148472e9a73677eedb0bf35\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 80\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 8; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 29\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 22; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e349ae5a3d5a40f6b9612a692c7d21ac\u0022\u003EPart 2  Taxation related amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c952732b83994fdf8c40cc992a9e9213\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Part 2, clauses 28 to 52, includes debate on schedule 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224a52df44b1c9450e9996a52a70bbad06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a52df44b1c9450e9996a52a70bbad06\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I think one of the things the Committee should first take note of is that even though this bill is the centrepiece of the Government\u2019s Budget, we have just completed Part 1 of the Committee stage of the debate and the Government is already making amendments to its legislation. This shows how poorly thought out this legislation is and that it is likely to be full of flaws and, given that there is no immediate need for the appropriation to be made, it shows that this bill should have gone to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EFurther, coming to Part 2, \u201CTaxation related amendments\u201D, there are some 40 pages in which a number of calculations spell out how this benefit will be delivered to people who previously thought they could look after themselves because they had a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E This will have a number of mistakes in it. It is quite unacceptable that the Committee will be given the limited time of, perhaps, 2 hours to consider these 40 pages of calculations. I predict that within a very short period of time\u2014possibly before the bill takes effect in October this year, in April next year, and in April 2007\u2014the Government will have to come back to Parliament to correct it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI am amazed by the figures I see in these tax calculations. What it tells us is that there are an appalling number of New Zealanders on very low incomes. It tells us that this Government has squandered the opportunity to raise the living standards and incomes of New Zealanders over the past 5 years, when New Zealand has experienced some of the highest commodity prices ever and has had very, very favourable trading conditions, and when the Government itself has been able to record very large surpluses. These figures are not significantly different from those introduced by a National Government for a similar sort of support back in 1998. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is a sad indictment on the Labour Government that it should be waving banners in front of people\u2019s faces and saying this is \u201Cyour Budget\u201D, when that statement is just a cynical, laughing attempt to get a vote off them. I ask Mr Cunliffe, the outgoing member for New Lynn, how long he thinks it will be before the family displayed on the poster stating \u201CYour Budget\u201D sees one cent of it. He does not know. That is the problem we have here today. Even the Government\u2019s own members do not know what the effects of this bill will be. They have been wheeled into a room by the Minister of Finance, accompanied by the Minister for Social Development and Employment, and told that this is a marvellous Budget that will deliver extra dollars into the hands of low-income New Zealanders, whether they are in work or on a benefit, and that we should be celebrating that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI want the Minister to confirm that the family on the poster stating \u201CYour Budget\u201D will not see a blind cent of that money prior to 2007. If he is going to stand up and say that it will, then I hope he outlines the circumstances of that family so that we can all learn what the Government is planning. It seems to me that there is a great deal of cynicism about a poster that states \u201CYour Budget\u201D. Most people would say, \u201CIf that\u2019s my Budget, then I\u2019m being roundly abused. I am being asked to go to work every day, to put in my 40, 45, or 50 hours a week, and at the end of it, still be a State beneficiary.\u201D New Zealanders will not buy that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022 data-id=\u00226e2357f9590d49f8b77ba6034bf61b86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e2357f9590d49f8b77ba6034bf61b86\u0022\u003EMARK PECK (Labour\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a call on this part. I start my comments by reminding people that I remember very well the \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D, prior to my coming into this place. I remember, as a result of that Budget, the redistribution of income from the very poor to the wealthy. Let me tell members what happened as a result of that redistribution of income in my city. We saw businesses close. The theory of trickle down simply did not work. Those who became wealthy remained wealthy, and the poor had to scrap and fight for a living. The workers of this nation saw their jobs put in jeopardy by those others who were so desperate they worked for less. We saw workers\u2014who had been told their wages and conditions would never be attacked\u2014lose their penalty rates, lose their work on Saturdays and Sundays, and lose their overtime rates, so that their families had to go to the Department of Social Welfare to get enough to pay their bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EWe know that that party opposite, despite the fact that its members are not prepared to say so now, would see this package of change\u2014this redistributional effort made by this Government in this Budget\u2014gone by lunchtime, and we know that Gerry Brownlee, Katherine Rich, John Key, and Don Brash would see that their mates got the vast bulk of the money back in their pockets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI heard Dr Cullen on the radio this morning being very heavily questioned by Morning Report\u2019s Sean Plunket, who asked why Dr Cullen did not simply give everyone a tax cut. That family in Waih\u012B on $55,000 a year, which is so incensed the Government has done nothing for it, will be $150 a week better off by 2007. We know that that family will be $60 a week better off by 2005, and $120 a week better off by 2006. We know that for that family to get $150 a week in the hand, delivered to it now, would mean there had to be a flat tax rate in this nation of 11c in the dollar, which would be $20 billion out of the tax take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EMembers of that party opposite should stand up and tell the families of this nation how they would deliver to low and middle income families, in a tax cut that would not see the wealthy advantaged over the poor. It is about time it was the Budget of low to middle income families. For the last 20 years they have carried the brunt of this nation\u2019s economic reforms, and we are giving them a little bit back. It is about time! I am sick and tired of my constituents having to go to Work and Income to get a special grant to buy a second-hand refrigerator. It is time they had the ability to live with some decency, and we are restoring that now. We have restored a lot of things to make life a little bit easier for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI have had enough of the National Party\u2019s cant. It is time its members stood up in this Chamber and told the families of this nation they either support them or they do not. I say they do not. I say they do not give a damn. I say they do not give a damn for anyone other than their rich mates, because the distributional efforts that have been made in the last 20 years have been for the rich. Now a little bit of balance is being restored to the battlers who have worked hard to make sure they pay for their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI know many of those people. They work in the freezing works, the fishing industry, and the timber industry. They sweep the streets and they collect the garbage. They do the work that members on that side would not contemplate doing, and it is time we gave them something back. The thing those workers will understand, which members on that side will not understand, is that we are giving it back to them in a way that is sustainable now and into the future. That is why we are doing it over 3 years. That is why we are making sure that it is fiscally prudent, and that we can continue to pay our debt. What those families understand when they get their wages every week, is that if they do not pay their rent, their phone, or their electricity, those things are taken from them. So what gives for mum and dad is food, because the kids eat but mum and dad miss out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u00220bedeb062fb44ec2a7626d4b8e365aca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bedeb062fb44ec2a7626d4b8e365aca\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I compliment the previous speaker on his passion. We could feel it from over here. He made a lot of sense, but the bit I do not understand about the whole thing is, if this legislation is so urgent, why did the Government veto my earlier amendments? If what Mr Peck is saying is true, why did it veto my amendments? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296129e61383a49b0ade3b01b2f37f29e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f7b375ecced4b1295261f393fd00877\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Money, the member says. Money, money, money\u2014that is the old Abba song. I will play it to him one day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI thank the Minister, because he has taken note of one point we made. He recognised that and acknowledged it publicly, which is a small gain. It is not enough, but it is a small gain. Perhaps Winston Churchill\u2019s words can best describe New Zealand First\u2019s attitude to this\u2014and maybe Mr Baldock would like to take notice, because I hear him castigating, by implication, my character. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E Winston Churchill once said: \u201CNever give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never\u2014in nothing, great or small, large or petty\u2014never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.\u201D Those words describe New Zealand First\u2019s attitude to families. We will not roll over and say we support families\u2014and put it into practice next year. We will not roll over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThat reminds me of a quote by another English Tory politician and it also describes United Future\u2019s position very well. Chris Patten, the last British Governor of Hong Kong, once said: \u201CIn democracy everyone has the right to be represented, even the jerks.\u201D When it comes to United Future\u2019s attitude to family, I think that describes that party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI shall give United Future and the Committee another opportunity to recognise the worth of families. New Zealand First will be putting forward a new definition of families\u2014namely, the Craig McNair definition, which I have here, and I shall read it out to members, because I know they are interested: \u201CFor the purposes of this Act, family is defined as\u2014(a) in which there is at least 1 adult member; and (b) in which the members have a biological or legal relationship.\u201D For the benefit of Mr Dunne in particular, I have to tell him that his No. 8 spokesperson was on Radio Rhema the other day actually giving some merit to that clause. Mr Baldock shakes his head. I have a tape of what he said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203c85a1ca8c74dbea384879e42572333\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0e17f3d8ee40999661346912ef646b\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I will. It is not in the Chamber at the moment. However, I can tell members that by the time we finish debating the legislation, it will be here. I will have a transcript and I will tell members exactly what that member said on Radio Rhema. Outside this Chamber we call people hypocrites who tell the public one thing and the Parliament something different. However, members are not allowed to use that term in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ee20e4c4fc845eeb4c365d669ee80f9\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I have listened to this speech with some interest. Generally, I would give it the charity of my silence, but to imply that my colleague is being dishonest is a breach of the Standing Orders of this House, and you should pull him up on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e4dcee2ccc7472bae338dae6c4918b5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. He is quite correct. I ask Mr Brown to withdraw that remark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d479babe8b643c59ba1b4eeef1f386c\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the implication of Mr Baldock being dishonest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e15292d57ba4137aa26a781f8ddf15f\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: He can\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280253a81636a4c11a658e7bd09e35473\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will just withdraw and that will be the end of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225efb14289e2e4d449c17aec42aa11082\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. I am prepared to table the transcript\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac91aa12452243c1950b4921c7547c39\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I am sorry to interrupt, but I seek your advice on this. You might not have heard, but the Hon Peter Dunne was making what I would consider unparliamentary interjections on Mr Brown when he was speaking. Is it general practice that members can take a point of order when someone who is being fiercely interjected on responds with a comment about a person in that member\u2019s party, and then the same person who has been interjecting using unparliamentary terms, wants that member to withdraw?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279fafdb9e2f14f3991a207f03f5b4bfa\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. If the member did hear something she considered to be unparliamentary\u2014and I certainly did not\u2014she must raise it at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ed55baeb0d4199bf10cd8fc2ae0b71\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I think I might be able to help the member. I think I said that Mr Brown was a sad old man who had forgotten more than he had ever learnt. If that is unparliamentary, then I invite you to rule on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c54417cd75048e9bed81c2ac44491c5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d6a4aeccfc64522bb29653b19b45591\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I assure the Committee that I am not worried about anything those has-beens say. They will be going to the scrap heap\u2014big time. I have been insulted by the professionals\u2014the watersiders and seafarers of this country. So there is nothing Mr Dunne could say that would worry me, at all. I have seen and heard the lot. Mr Dunne has an opportunity to rectify\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214596cbe73de42038f2b2c6fa344622e\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not very Christian from a Christian party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f01b9d2ec0514c51b2479340f717e333\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Christian party? Oh, no it is not Sunday! They are Christians on Sunday or when they are on Radio Rhema. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022de68b8c3b9c9421197c4e28ab5e204a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de68b8c3b9c9421197c4e28ab5e204a4\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I am amazed to find this sort of levity in the Chamber today. It shows that everybody here is totally in support of this very, very significant Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. We are light-hearted, optimistic, and really thrilled. Even though we have heard very sad, bitter, and cynical opposition from members opposite to the Budget yesterday and, now, the introduction of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, I know that mothers and young parents in the Opposition like Simon Power really do believe that families deserve assistance. They really do understand that unless we front-end load investment into families we will never ever get over the stigmatisation of at-risk families in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EAny member of this House who has been an electorate MP, who has sat down with families in despair, gone through their entitlements under the old Social Security Act, and worked out that they are getting all their benefit entitlements but still cannot afford to pay their indebtedness, get the power restored, or get that food parcel, knows in his or her heart of hearts that this legislation is an absolutely fantastic fillip for families in New Zealand today. Members opposite talk about our not understanding that flat-tax rates\u2014their idea of the future\u2014actually provide a benefit. But we are front-end loading families so that they are resilient, are optimistic, have hope, and ultimately participate in society in a productive way, and that is what this bill achieves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EIt also achieves a beautiful elegance in the benefit system, not a dependency. I congratulate the Greens on the work they have done with us in our electorate to help beneficiaries understand how to get their full entitlements. I made several phone calls from my office last night to check back with a few of my constituents who had had to have help. They had already rung the 0800 number. They had already used the 0800 number to learn what would be in the Budget for them, and they were absolutely thrilled. They were prepared to wait. Those constituents did not even know there was an election next year\u2014that is how disempowered they have been. But they knew that help was on the way for them, and I found that absolutely gratifying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI also had a phone call from my son, who would like to thank Mr Maharey. In 3 years\u2019 time, when his daughter, who was born last week, is 3, she will be entitled to 20 free hours of childcare. He said that was fantastic. My son is young and upwardly mobile, he has a huge student debt and a wife who wants to go back to university, and they will need childcare, so Mr Maharey is helping them enormously. He thanks Mr Maharey and Dr Cullen for a fabulous Budget yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOnce Opposition members truly read the detail in this bill they will see the elegance of it, see the change to the benefit system whereby people will know what their entitlements are, and then will feel that they are truly empowered to grow healthy and resilient families. I thank Mr Maharey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbae37897a12492587eb9d7ee632a867\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbae37897a12492587eb9d7ee632a867\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the amendment that has been put on the Table by Mr Peter Brown. It is another attempt by New Zealand First to make this bill better\u2014though its first attempt went down in a screaming heap. New Zealand First members have been making claims all week about how they will govern when they get into power, yet it was clear from the first amendment that they did not understand the budgetary process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI have to say, though, that there are some problems that New Zealand First members would solve if they got into power. One of them would be the traffic congestion problem in Auckland. If New Zealand First ever got its hands on the Treasury benches again, so many people would leave New Zealand that there would be no problem with congestion anywhere in the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThis definition that has been put forward for consideration is nothing short of simple political point-scoring. We had a very interesting discussion on Radio Rhema yesterday, when New Zealand First tried to convince New Zealanders that somehow this definition would solve everybody\u2019s problems, and questioned how we in United Future could be opposing civil unions and the omnibus bill yet could have a definition of family that, supposedly, opens the door to same-sex parenting. Well, let us look seriously at New Zealand First\u2019s definition to see whether what its members proudly claim is correct\u2014that is, that their definition does not cover same-sex families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EFirst of all, their definition excludes orphaned groups of siblings who have tragically lost their parents. [Interruption] I hope New Zealand First members will be quiet for a moment and consider this. According to the New Zealand First definition of a family, there must be at least one adult member. So not only could a family of three or four kids, say, aged 14 to 6 suffer the loss of their parents overnight but also, with New Zealand First\u2019s definition of a family, they would suffer the loss of instantly ceasing to be a family, which would cause more pain for those children. We were a little bit clearer in the use of words in our definition to make sure we did not exclude anybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003ESecondly, does their definition exclude same-sex families in which there is at least one adult member and in which the members have a biological or legal relationship? Clearly, it covers same-sex families in this country right now, because they may have a biological attachment because of the way they have become involved with in vitro fertilisation treatments and so on\u2014something I am very strongly opposed to. So their definition would include them. Everyone in this Parliament knows that the Care of Children Bill, perhaps soon to be passed by the Labour Government with the support of the Greens, will give legal recognition, through guardianship, to those same-sex families, so this definition is nothing more than simple political point-scoring. It has nothing to do with improving this legislation, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThis bill that we are supporting and debating today is about families. It is about kids. We want to help the children of New Zealand to be able to have a reasonable standard of living, through giving assistance to those who are raising them. Everyone who knows me knows that I have very strong beliefs about marriage\u2014marriage between a man and a woman. In fact, I will introduce a member\u2019s bill into the ballot very soon that will make it clear that our Marriage Act relates to marriage between a man and a woman. I disagree with gays claiming the right to have children and to raise children, because I believe that it is the right of children to be raised by a mother and a father\u2014that is the child\u2019s right, not the adult\u2019s right\u2014but given that society has already allowed the circumstance where children find themselves being raised by two fathers or two mothers, it would be adding insult to injury for us to come up with a definition of family that excluded them. That is why United Future will not support this amendment. It is simply a political game to try to gain points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022603cb957de084f1383d45f1e9fe58942\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: The member didn\u2019t say that on Radio Rhema.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c0fddabad9402abd7f86e0db91104c\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK\u003C/span\u003E: I will be happy to go on Radio Rhema at any time with the member to discuss this, as we have been doing for so long. This legislation should not exclude any child in New Zealand, whatever the make-up of his or her family, and that is the point that we will continue to stand up for. We will not exclude one single person from the benefits of this very good legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u0022644a481a799043508f264238bc2ce3fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022644a481a799043508f264238bc2ce3fe\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard a lot from the Labour Party today about how good this bill is. Well, if it is so good, why is no one sitting on the front bench? Where is the Labour Party? Why are its members not here in the Chamber supporting the bill, talking about it, and defending it to the hilt? We have heard from one member that there is a beautiful elegance in this bill. If that is the case, why are Labour Party members not in this Chamber demanding their turn to debate it, so that they can talk to their constituents? We have heard it is a fabulous fillip. That is a joke, is it not? If that is the case, where are the Labour Party members? Why are all these empty seats before me? Where are the big guns? Where are the people who are going to debate this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EAs for the 0800 number, so far the only use of the 0800 number to members on this side is to find out that some of the original figures were incorrect in the first place. I hope New Zealanders are ringing the 0800 number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022591b3015815946d99c955e66d9ac6dc9\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I am sorry to interrupt the member, but I think it would be quite nice actually to find which clause of the bill she is talking to in this Committee stage. There has been no mention of anything yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b34a8cd4c7a1403a8a57d2728e5fc9d5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I guess I have been fairly lenient, I suppose, is the word, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c874e1b671149448faa087ec74771aa\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re very lenient on their members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a66550f3dea450ab73da46c24db5ac6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: That member knows the rules. When I am ruling on a point of order there will be silence. I say to Mr Copeland that I have been lenient over the last several speakers. I now ask members to address Part 2 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc811b58301743afb9ce81b8580ba17a\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: In speaking to the point of order, may I say we have just had a speech from Mark Peck, who said nothing whatsoever about the bill. We had a speech from Steve Chadwick, who did the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfd132e10a324ba988e315c44e3df653\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will pleased be seated. I have ruled on Mr Copeland\u2019s point of order. I have indicated that, yes, I have been lenient. I now ask that members speak to Part 2 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c318f73575f4a4386c4e20270aad9f5\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I understood that members who rise to speak in this debate are able to make mention of comments that previous speakers have made. In fact, all of the comments I have made so far have been in relation to comments made by other members who have spoken, and in fact have been rebuttals of comments that other members have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022117294949f824141b9497ab69a7573e7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: That is true. However, I have ruled, and I have ruled that I have been lenient, and that there has been some leeway this morning. I am now saying that the member has raised a legitimate point of order, and I am now asking people to speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022151a4476d5a64dd1af16367c6d55a28e\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. As a point of clarification, are we led to believe that because a lot of other members have spoken and had their say, when a National members stands up to speak you will not be lenient from this point on\u2014now that the Opposition is having a say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f15ef291997d4e899e386b7ad37048fe\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already ruled on that, and I have asked members to return to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ea18614b33b44d69c0805a22ef1909c\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: Part 2 is about the taxation-related amendments. It has been very interesting to hear some members from that side talk about how excited they are about some of the headlines they have read up and down the country. I would like the Minister for Social Development and Employment to take a call to say how he feels about the Otago Daily Times headline that states: \u201CBudget on the never-never\u201D. That confirms what I think four out of five New Zealanders have already established\u2014that there is nothing in this bill for them. Mark Peck spoke about the battlers. He said this bill was all about the battlers. Well, the Otago Daily Times states: \u201CBattling New Zealanders will have to wait.\u201D So, once again, we are seeing confirmation that this bill does not deliver anything for most working New Zealanders at all, and for those to whom it does deliver something, it drip-feeds it out over a couple of years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe other point the Minister made was about the tax implications of the accommodation supplement. It was very interesting to hear Steve Maharey talk about the accommodation supplement. When he was in Opposition he railed against the accommodation supplement and said things like: \u201CThe Government will rely on shuffling money from people who will have to register for the accommodation supplement to get that supplement and give it back to the landlord, who will give it back to officials, who will put it into the accommodation supplement in order to give it back to those people.\u201D Well, has he not changed his tune? He has gone from thinking the accommodation supplement was a waste of time to further entrenching it. He used to think it was just a payback for landlords. He originally said that New Zealanders needed to have it explained to them that the accommodation supplement was a hoax, and that it seemed silly for the Government to take money off people through taxation only to give it back as the accommodation supplement. Well, has the Minister not changed his tune? I think he needs to take a call and explain why he is now so keen on the accommodation supplement, when he was so anti it when it was first proposed by National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe next thing that the Minister said he was aiming to do was to simplify the benefit system and simplify the taxation implications. Well, I challenge the Minister to go out into the street, show this bill to New Zealanders, and say: \u201CThere you go. You work out what you\u2019re going to get as a result of this bill.\u201D I think most New Zealanders would read this bill, look at how complex it is, and say: \u201CI\u2019m none the wiser.\u201D I think that is why New Zealanders have worked out that four out of five New Zealanders will not get anything out of this Budget, and that those who will get something will have to remain on a benefit for the next 3 years. I challenge the Minister to get up and explain what some of these implications are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EI think it is a travesty that the Minister has not got the guts to refer this bill to a select committee for full scrutiny. Already we have seen some amendments, and that shows us that the bill is actually a work in progress. I predict that we will be back here very soon doing some amendments to Part 2 because what has been done has not been fully worked through. It has not had the scrutiny of Parliament. There have not been public submissions. We have not seen what Treasury\u2019s response is. The bill is going to be a disaster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u00228e1fa17e86ba4090bc28baf2669764dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e1fa17e86ba4090bc28baf2669764dc\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E My oath, Katherine Rich is right! Let us look at Part 2 and then at what the explanatory note to the bill states. It states that the bill will \u201Ctake steps to simplify the social security system.\u201D Obviously, the Minister himself wrote Part 2. Listen to this from Part 2. I am reading from new subsection (6), which clause 39 inserts into the principal Act: \u201CA person who satisfies the requirements of subsection (1)(d)(ii) but who in a 1 week period is not engaged in an activity related to their employment and who is on leave from that employment because of the birth of a child and who is eligible to receive the parental tax credit in respect of the child is treated for the purpose of subsection (1)(d)(ii), and for the period for which the parental tax credit is paid to the person, as being engaged in the week in the activity for the number of hours in respect of which the Commissioner is satisfied that the person would have been engaged but for the birth of the child.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI challenge the Minster to get up and tell us what that means. While he is on his feet, could he please tell us what the next bit, new subsection (7) means\u2014and this, I remind the Committee, is from a bill that plans to take steps to simplify the social security system. New subsection (7) states: \u201CA person who satisfies the requirements of subsection (1)(d)(ii) but who in a 1 week period is engaged in employment for less than the number of hours required in employment for less than the number of hours required to satisfy . . .\u201D \u2013blah, blah, blah. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThis is the reason that bills like this should go to a select committee. This is one of the reasons that they should not be rammed through the House under urgency, especially when the provisions for this bill do not even come in until October. The Minister could have got the bill through without using urgency. The reason the bill is not going to a select committee is that he does not want people to see his writing\u2014his typical woolly-woofter degree in \u201Cbureaucratese\u201D from Massey University, which one has to have to be able to write such garbage. The only people in New Zealand who will benefit from this bill are the bureaucrats. We will see a huge build-up of bureaucrats. A greater behemoth will spring up out of what social welfare or WINZ, or whatever they call it these days, already is. We will have lawyers employed by the hundreds just so they can \u201Csimplify the social security system\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EPart 2 makes no sense, at all. Part of Part 2 will address issues like more assistance for childcare so parents can go out to work. What about those parents who want to stay home? What about the Home Instruction Programme for Pre-school Youngsters? That programme integrates parents and early childcare, but it gets a measly couple of hundred thousand in this Budget. That programme works, but all this Government wants to do is herd children away from their parents and families and put them into institutions. What do they do to do that? They pay them a bounty. Part 2 will further obfuscate the social security system. It will not simplify it, at all. Dr Cullen is now the Minister in the chair. That is an improvement. Perhaps Dr Cullen could get up and explain to us what these two new subsections in clause 39 mean. Can he get up and tell us what they mean? They are absolute nonsense and  make no sense, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EIt has been very interesting in this debate to see the scrap between United Future and New Zealand First. We still do not know which party they are scrapping to support. They are sort of hedging their bets at the moment while National goes up in the polls. They are sitting on the fence, and we know what happens when people sit on the fence. They get bowled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003ETen percent of the workers contribute 45 percent of the tax take, and this Government is just going to redistribute more of that. As the Dominion Post commentator said this morning, there is nothing in this bill for people who work, for middle and high income families. Middle and high income families in this country are not even rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002297c6ffe3d5c84db5aebd59d6a73be4a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297c6ffe3d5c84db5aebd59d6a73be4a2\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I really enjoy following on from a speech made by that member, and before her, Katherine Rich. I want to speak to Part 2 and the taxation-related amendments. If any member in this Chamber would know about taxation, especially GST, that member would\u2014and we know why. That member would know all about taxation and avoidance. She would know the lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI want to address a couple of points for the old tumbleweeds over there. I want to quote from a former Australian Prime Minister who said: \u201CThis is the one that brings home the bacon.\u201D We know that that crew over there are psyched out by this package. I cannot believe some of the arguments. We have just heard Katherine Rich and Deborah Coddington who, one would hope, would have some intelligence, say that there is nothing in this package for low and middle income people. Let me tell them that 300,000 families are delivered an average increase, through this package, of around $100.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec37804a36740bc823901e8cbe8ae72\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson.  I thought you had made it very clear to the Committee that this debate is now much narrower. It is confined to the amendments to the Tax Administration Act, the Housing Restructuring Act, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc929dba448415081186ff76e804fd5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. I listened to the member. He was speaking to Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256802309d44c41cc8728f8a0858ccfd7\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: They cannot hack it\u2014that is their problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022794f3ae1b8234161bcc448eea2c1659b\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. Where in Part 2 does it refer to tax evasion by other members of the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4506e5210544cfaaadf6db2d4688f25\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be seated. I have ruled on the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3436055a2154c1da51f9512c3cbf46e\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: About 300,000 families on between $25,000 and $45,000 are delivered an average increase of about $100 a week in direct income assistance. That is fantastic. I refer members to the $55,000 bracket. Let us go through it. This package has been attacked by members on that side because the measures do not all come in in one hit. Why is that? Because that would not be sustainable, and sustainability in an economic sense was something that the old tumbleweed Lockwood Smith and a few of the others were actually for before this package came out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo let us have a look at it. This is what occurs. Under Part 2, a single-income person on $55,000 with four kids will be $70 a week better off in April 2005. In 2006, that person will be $110 better off, in 2007 will be $150 a week better off, and we will maintain our surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut in terms of taxation let us look at what the alternatives would be to Part 2. If the National Party had its way, we would get a flat tax of 11c, costing $20 billion. I want to know from that side over there, and their rich mates in ACT, and using that $20 billion, which hospitals and schools they would close and which pensions they would cut. They should front up and tell us now, because, in talking to Part 2, I say that we have fronted up in this bill today with a policy directly targeting hard-working low and middle income families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat have we heard from the Opposition? Zip. I tell members why. They are psyched out, absolutely psyched out. The old \u201Ctumbleweed\u201D over there can grin at me, but I invite him to get up and give us his tax policy and keep talking about it. Because I say that under Part 2\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cceb04b382a4dafa74f31c5d2105a4e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that he must refer to members by their correct titles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed98c93e4a134b6c94c056277bb770e2\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, I was referring to Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith. Our policy actually targets low and middle income people. I just use the words of the Prime Minister yesterday. National Party members say this Part 2 is an election bribe. That is what they have been going around the country saying. Well, why is it, as the Prime Minister said, that when we target hard-working, battling, low and middle income people, they say it is an election bribe, but not an election bribe when they propose a $20 billion tax cut that will give people like Dr Smith and Gerry Brownlee 600 bucks a week extra, and then somebody on $55,000 will get 39 bucks a week extra, and somebody on $39,000 will get zero? Because if we stack up our figures in Part 2, and our calculations targeting low and middle-income battlers, against what those members say they will do, we know what will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe know this policy has been well received because it is honest, because it is over 3 years, and because we want to make sure it is stable. I suppose what Dr Cullen could have done is what the National Party says he should have done\u2014plonked it all in 1 year. Then we would have been criticised, I am sure, for spending the whole lot in one hit. Then they would have stood up and said that this is a traditional Labour Budget\u2014sell everything off, tax and spend. One cannot have it both ways. This is a sustainable package. Mr Brownlee nods. How two-faced is that? That is true. Did the member nod?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f0bdb1d84141198c559ffc519398d2\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at you mate!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022901cacb18e4341229b5d7315eef91459\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Of course that member comes from Ilam, and those income earners in the tax bracket that will be affected by his tax package are all in their big, flash houses, all wearing their jewellery on their wrists, and saying: \u201CThis is terrible, isn\u2019t it?\u201D, because the low and the middle income earners get a break. Mr Brownlee\u2019s mates in Ilam\u2014and I look across at him with glee\u2014do not get a break, because they are doing OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u002256f5a92b77a0406f96b819f9212d9ccf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256f5a92b77a0406f96b819f9212d9ccf\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am just so glad to follow the previous speaker, Clayton Cosgrove. He is the chairman of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, of which I am also a member and to which ordinarily, I thought, Part 2 might have gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EWe are very concerned because that select committee recently recommended to the House a taxation bill with over 2,000 pages\u2014and the House generously supported the passage of the bill, which the Hon Dr Michael Cullen sponsored\u2014but now the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, together with the Hon Steve Maharey, has suddenly dropped in this piece of legislation, Part 2 of which makes taxation changes, without it having been scrutinised. Shortly after the House passed the taxation bill we had a lot of amendments\u2014and that is after the select committee spent 1 whole year deliberating on it. Today, under urgency, I really would like the Minister of Finance to stand up and give us an assurance that we will not return in a short time to debate further amendments because of some technical hitches or because some clauses do not have the right references to the taxation Act. For a Labour Government that says it is looking at simplifying taxation, I thought that was a very strange way of going about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe junior Labour whip said that if anybody does not understand Part 2, which relates to the calculation of family tax credits, he or she should ring the 0800 line and get the answer. But our very diligent spokesperson on social welfare, Katherine Rich, has already spoken about the 0800 hotline last night. She is the future Hon Katherine Rich, because she would be a good Minister. She understands that hard-working New Zealanders do not want to stay on a benefit. She would move them to work, in a caring and constructive manner. Last night she rang the hotline and she has already denied the public relations spin put out by the Labour Government about a family with a 16-year-old child. That family, in effect, will not have relief of $170, because that child in 3 years\u2019 time will no longer be eligible as a dependent child. So on day one the package was already wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EHow can this Committee and the public have confidence that Part 2 is absolutely error-free, particularly if I share what I have read, for example, about the calculation of subpart KD credit? I am not too sure, actually, how many people understand this, but it states that there are complications. Clause 29 has a few long sentences that tell people who want to know the amount they will be entitled to that it is $3,744 if the child is under the age of 16, $4,420 if the child is 16 years or older, or a \u201Cweighted average of the amounts in subparagraphs (i) and (ii) that reflects the proportion of the period \u2026\u201D Well, I am not too sure that any person can actually get through to the 0800 number, as the junior Government whip is apparently already on the line, checking on what I have just read to him. When he goes back to his electorate later on, he will not be able to answer any questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022513e607e59174c6584d5f8c7a409f9f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022513e607e59174c6584d5f8c7a409f9f2\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak to clause 39, which is about in-work payments. I think Deborah Coddington made quite a valid point in respect of subsections (6) and (7) of section KD 2AAA, when she said they are somewhat economical with full stops. At least they are symmetrical, because there is one full stop every 10 lines exactly. So some thought and care obviously have been given to where full stops should go. It is a bit of a pity, when we have just rewritten the tax legislation at great expense and in a process that took some years, to put in those two provisions without any full stops in them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EHowever, let me come to the main point that I want to talk to in this Committee stage, and that is the in-work payment. In the explanatory note of the bill we are told that the in-work payment will be available to superannuitants. I want to relay to the Committee exactly what happened at the Finance and Expenditure Committee. We had a visit from a grandmother who wanted to draw our attention\u2014in relation to the Budget Policy Statement, which we were considering then\u2014to the problems of grandparents raising grandchildren. She was already a superannuitant. She was about 66 years of age. She had taken on two of her grandchildren in what can only be described as undesirable circumstances. She told the committee that in order to make ends meet and to support those children, which she was committed to doing, she had to take out a $20,000 mortgage on her house. She went on to tell us that by living off that mortgage very, very carefully and being very careful about her funding she hoped to have it paid off within 20 years\u2014namely, at the age of 86 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI think that all of us on the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014in fact, we actually put it in our report back to the House, in a rather oblique manner\u2014expressed the hope that superannuitants would continue to receive, in spite of that status, assistance with childcare costs. It is true that grandparents raising grandchildren do, under this bill, get the unsupported child\u2019s benefit, and would get the in-work payment in clause 39 if they were in the workforce. But when we think about it, a 66-year-old woman who is looking after two of her grandchildren is most unlikely to be in the workforce, and therefore she does not qualify for the in-work payment. She is left simply with the unsupported child\u2019s benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIn that regard, the principal point she was making to us is that although that benefit will be increased by $15 a week from 1 April 2005, it still remains $30 below the foster-care allowance. I would like the Government to think very, very carefully about why there should be that $30 gap between the two benefits. If members were to listen to this woman and to hear the circumstances in which she was bringing up her grandchildren, it would be clear to them that there was no less work and no less expense\u2014including psychiatric counselling and things of that sort\u2014in bringing up those grandchildren than there would be in bringing up foster-children. I think that for the sake of another 30 bucks a week, and, perhaps, too, for the sake of simplification, the Government should give thought to whether there are valid policy reasons for superannuitants raising grandchildren to be on the unsupported child\u2019s benefit rather than on the foster-care benefit, which would give them another $30 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThat is my central point, and I would like the Government to think about that. If the Minister felt inclined to take a call, that would be great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u0022568a84aa59e64d13a686ee11b8a5713a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022568a84aa59e64d13a686ee11b8a5713a\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022 data-id=\u0022099630144b604f86b237656157fab1b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022099630144b604f86b237656157fab1b6\u0022\u003EDr LYNDA SCOTT (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E Part 2 is fairly technical. It deals with the actual tax implications of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. This bill is all about the difference between Labour and National. It really demonstrates that. Labour is very keen on re-establishing the welfare State, and that is what this bill is all about. It is about socialism\u2014about taking tax off people, and the Government then making its choices about how it is spent. We certainly heard from the people reported in the Dominion Post this morning who said that those on middle incomes will miss out again, as they always have missed out. Another couple said they would be happier if there were taxation cuts rather than benefits. Why do they want that? Why do middle New Zealanders want taxation cuts? It is because they want a choice about how they spend the extra money in their pockets. They want to be able to choose where they have their childcare assistance. They do not want to be dictated to about having to go to a State provider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EPeople want to choose where they might be able to spend a little more money and buy a bit of health insurance, because under this Government they cannot get a hip or knee replacement to save their life. More money may have been put into that in the Budget, but that is only because this Government was doing less major-joint surgery than in 1999 when National left Government, despite an ageing and increasing population. That is clearly shown in the Health and Independence Report to the Minister last year\u2014on page 174, if members would like to look it up. We also see cataract surgery is in that list, so it is true that someone has to be blind and in a wheelchair before the Government will help that person. People talk about wanting to have taxation cuts rather than a benefit, or they say they hope that those on middle incomes may actually benefit from the Budget, but they have not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EThere is nothing in all the pages in Part 2 of this bill that will improve growth in the economy. I think most people would much prefer to have better jobs than to have this Government hand them out a little bit here and a little bit there. They would prefer to have better educational opportunities, better jobs, and higher incomes. People would prefer to be like our Australian cousins, who are $180 a week better off than us today\u2014not in 2005, 2006, or 2007, which is what this Government is handing out in its drip feeding. No, today the Australians are better off than we are, and most New Zealanders would like to see an investment in things that will create growth for this country and bring us back to the same level as our Australian cousins. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003ESome of the language in this part of the bill is interesting. Section KD2(6B) inserted by clause 29 states: \u201CFor the purpose of subsection (6), a ring-fenced family support recipient\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268569f08c87e4d5d86c7dbe8d501b316\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What does that mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a767a0743904113b46dbff85067b013\u0022\u003EDr LYNDA SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: What is a ring-fenced family support recipient? The bill is not going to a select committee; it is being rushed through the House. I would like the Minister in the chair, Dr Cullen, to take a call and tell us what a ring-fenced family support recipient is, because that is the sort of language that is in the bill, and without the scrutiny of a select committee it will be difficult to come to understand the details of how the legislation will impact on people. There are sure to be problems and we are sure to see some amendment bills. There is a family tax credit, a family support credit, and a child tax credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac23eedf-0a53-4d88-a49b-d5b440483616\u0022\u003EI sat here in the Chamber and listened to Government members give speeches of envy. They talked about the people on the Opposition side of the House being rich. I have to tell Government members that a whole lot of people on the Opposition side of the House grew up in poor social circumstances, and worked extremely hard to get where they are. We know that rewarding effort by being able to have a better education and earn more money is exactly what is needed. I started my working life as a nurse-aide at Porirua Hospital, and it was better education that got me to where I am today\u2014through being a nurse and a doctor. That is what people want. Those people in the Labour Party who are a bunch of unionists and teachers, and who generally have not done a hard day\u2019s work in their life, are the ones who have not got their hands dirty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00221354de96ea4b4fb28005ecda55bb1f16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221354de96ea4b4fb28005ecda55bb1f16\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to bring the Minister in the chair, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, to the clauses in Part 2 of this bill, because they are very important. Part 2 purports to address the poverty traps that currently exist in our family tax credit, family support tax credit, and child tax credit arrangements. I would like the Minister in the chair to answer some questions. Obviously under clause 30 the family tax credit remains. The family tax credit will be raised, so that the net income of a family receiving the family tax credit will go up to, from memory, about $17,000. From memory, it is currently about $15,080. My question is this: does the abatement rate remain dollar for dollar? If it does, does that mean the effective marginal taxation rates through certain income ranges in this system remain at over 100 percent, by the time the accident compensation payment is included\u2014probably 101.2 percent? If that does remain the case, the Minister has not dealt with that poverty trap. That is my first question\u2014although the family tax credit is retained in this legislation and will be increased eventually, does the 100 percent abatement rate remain? If it does, there is a poverty trap in the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ENext, I would like to focus on the interaction between the benefit system and family support. Clearly, under clause 38 the abatement system for family support is being changed, so that family support will no longer abate while the benefit is abating. That is a plus. National would support that, because it means the effective marginal taxation rate faced by people in the $20,000 to $27,000 income range\u2014well over 80 percent\u2014will now come down to a much lower effective marginal taxation rate of no more than 70 percent. It seems there is to be no change to the abatement rate of the domestic purposes benefit, which remains at 70 percent. But at least we do not have the family support tax credit abating at 18 percent on top of that, making a combined effective marginal taxation rate of well over 80 percent. Although that change has been made, page 22 of the explanatory note states: \u201CHowever, EMTRs will be higher for some middle and higher income families not previously eligible for assistance:\u201D. If this legislation had gone to a select committee, the committee would have had the chance to examine the crucial issue in all this, which is the effective marginal taxation rates throughout the low to middle income earning bracket. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIf we are to pass this legislation today, I believe the Minister in the chair should tell this Committee what the effective marginal taxation rates now will be. What will they be? What does this legislation mean? How high will effective marginal taxation rates go? We know of the Waihi family with four children that is on $55,000. One of that family\u2019s problems was that as it was in the $35,000 to $55,000 income range, it faced an effective marginal taxation rate of 63 percent, all the way through that income range. This legislation will change that to some extent. But the Minister in the chair should tell us what will happen to that family\u2019s effective marginal taxation rate as its income goes a bit higher. If we are to believe what page 22 of the explanatory note tells us, the effective marginal taxation rates at the higher end of the middle income bracket will go higher. They will be way higher than 39 percent; there is no question about that. We know the problem with the interaction between the benefits, family tax credit, family support tax credit, and child tax credit. It is the poverty traps caused by the interaction of all those tax credits\u2014the effective marginal taxation rates they generate. Government members do not have a damn clue what this legislation is doing to those effective marginal taxation rates. Darren Hughes could not calculate the effective marginal taxation rate that these changes will make; he would not have a hope of doing it. I believe that Parliament should know about this issue, because those are the crucial incentives that face people through that income range. What is this legislation doing to the effective marginal taxation rates? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe final point I would like to make is that the in-work payment, provided for in clause 39, is a bit of a con. The Government talks about a $60 in-work payment. Do Government members know it is a bit of a con? Do the United Future people, who think this in-work payment is all wonderful, know it is a bit of a con? For a family with three children, the only extra bit is $15 a week, because it replaces the child tax credit. For a family with three children, the child tax credit already pays $45 a week, so the in-work payment is a con. It has not been honestly expressed, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022455688c60efb48ba8deb565c90d2aefe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022455688c60efb48ba8deb565c90d2aefe\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00228bb29d1e96af44e78f67030489a56e9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bb29d1e96af44e78f67030489a56e9c\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E In rising to speak against Part 2 of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, I am amazed at the fact that just about every speech today from the Government and its poodles has involved a personal attack on members on the Opposition side of the House. Government members have had nothing to say, other than to personally attack us. Mark Peck has been fantasising about when Labour will be in Opposition. Well, I say to Mr Peck that it will not be far off. [Interruption] He will not be in Parliament at all, because National will take the Invercargill seat. We have looked at what this bill will do for families. I looked at what Steve Maharey put out yesterday, because, as National\u2019s spokesperson on families, I was slightly interested in what he might want to say about families. This is what he had to say: \u201CParenting is society\u2019s most important job.\u201D What? What sort of loony place does that man come from, if he thinks that parenting is society\u2019s most important job? I notice that the United Future people are very, very quiet about that. Do those members really think that parenting is society\u2019s job? No, it is the job of parents. Parents are in charge of families. Parents do parenting\u2014not society, and certainly not the Labour Party. That party cannot tell the difference between parents and society, whatever that term may mean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThere is a clause in the bill that talks about a ring-fenced family support recipient. I had a look through the bill to see whether there is anything in Part 2, or even in Part 1 or any other part, that tells us what a ring-fenced family support recipient is. I can tell members there is no definition of a ring-fenced family support recipient, or even a definition of a ring-fenced anything. What we are doing today is creating a law, so it would be very interesting to find out what the legal definition of \u201Cring-fenced\u201D is. I think we will find that it is another example of a situation where this bill should have gone to a select committee. Although Part 2 is full of mistakes and definitions are not given in it, the bill will not be going anywhere near a select committee, and the reason is that the Government does not want people to know about the detail of the legislation. It does not want people to know what is really in it. What the Government thinks we might want to do is to find out about what it wants to tell us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Hon Steve Maharey again told us that this legislation will provide more free childcare centres and early childhood education for children aged 3 to 4. That sounds great. That sounds fantastic, except there is a little catch: it is available only for those children who go to community-owned childcare centres. But in every new housing area in my electorate, and in every new housing area around the country, there are no community-owned childcare centres. This Government says that those people are on too high a decile\u2014over 3\u2014so they will not get anything. It does not want them to have anything out of this Budget. All those nice people, who are bringing up their own children and asking for very little from the Government, are thinking today that they may get at least a little bit of early childhood education, in return for all the hard-earned money they pay in taxes. But they will get nothing, because this Government will give it only to the community-owned centres\u2014in other words, the kindergartens. Those are the very same organisations that ban Christmas and Easter. [Interruption] They did that; they banned Christmas in my electorate. They do that because of this politically correct Government, which is kept in power by United Future, and now by New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EEven Sue Bradford said that this legislation is not good. She said that the detail of this legislation shows us that some beneficiaries will be worse off than they are. This Government has not risen to answer Sue Bradford\u2019s questions. I do not agree with Sue Bradford on most things, but when she tells me that beneficiaries will be worse off under this legislation, I know she is right. One of the things I do know is that most beneficiaries are very good at working out the detail on these things. We have heard from Clayton Cosgrove, who stood up and verbally attacked\u2014abused\u2014people in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022 data-id=\u002287ecc89ee58b45bda582b100b9e1aac0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287ecc89ee58b45bda582b100b9e1aac0\u0022\u003EPAUL ADAMS (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of United Future to speak on Part 2. I think that the title of the bill\u2014\u201CFuture Directions (Working for Families)\u201D\u2014is an excellent one. United Future will be supporting the bill, and I am very pleased, because although we have been in Parliament for only 2 years, all of a sudden families are at the forefront in this year\u2019s Budget. When I looked at the Budget, I rated it and gave it 5 out 10; so I guess that shows where I am on it\u2014in the centre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EThis package for families has funding allocated to it in the Budget for its implementation. It is based on Labour\u2019s ideology of wealth distribution, but I personally do not believe that is the best way of handling it. In listening to the various aspects of the debate on Part 2, which deals with taxation matters, I heard Mr Peter Brown encouraging United Future members to support earlier implementation dates. I personally do not support that, because although I am pleased that the Budget takes a good look at families in New Zealand, and very pleased that it recognises that those who are bringing up children face a tremendous challenge at present, I do not disagree with Mr Peter Brown\u2019s claim that the help is needed right now. Some have said that perhaps the commencement dates in the bill are related to the next election. If that is the case, then I welcome that. I am pleased that the Budget allocates funding for future dates and puts consideration of families at the forefront. I believe there will be a time in the future when whoever is in Government will look at how these requirements for families can be implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EI personally believe that the correct way to help families is through the taxation system. I know that in respect of the current rate we consider only whether a person is in the category of a single-parent family or in the category of a couple living together. I suggest that it is quite easy in terms of the taxation system to distinguish whether a family comprises a couple with one child, two children, or three or four children, and adjust the taxation system accordingly so that the family gets the rebate\u2014something that most members would agree those families need and deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EI think there can be a problem with wealth redistribution, in that it is very easy to kill a dream. We must try to bring in legislation that shows people the importance of achieving. It does not matter where their place is in society as long as we give them an incentive to better themselves. It is important that people are encouraged to have a dream. If I may, I will give an illustration from motor racing. I was a young man in a family that was against motor sport, yet I had a dream of becoming a champion. Against all the odds I began to walk that path. It involved sacrifice, but I achieved my dream. When we are talking about families\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf06464e4b14dd69648462c75a5ea1b\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Which clause talks about motor racing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220388ea59790141569fa881b9eba1e597\u0022\u003EPAUL ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: That was an illustration. There is nothing wrong with being a dreamer. I believe that if we make people reliant on a system of Government handouts, even though well-intentioned\u2014and I commend the intention\u2014we can destroy their ability to dream and to achieve. Therefore, United Future supports the intention of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EI thank the Committee for the opportunity to come at this matter from a personal aspect. I believe that the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill takes us in the right direction. It is of the utmost importance. I hope that whoever is in Government continues in that way over the years that lie ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022 data-id=\u0022fde18adbb09c49a3a6071e3f89de441e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fde18adbb09c49a3a6071e3f89de441e\u0022\u003EHELEN DUNCAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u002297f2132444ef429a8585bbf7afaa64ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297f2132444ef429a8585bbf7afaa64ca\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E As a number of members have criticised contributions I have made, I want to speak to the Budget. Firstly, I say to Mr Paul Adams that he was a better motorcar driver than he is a parliamentary speaker, because he has actually given a very good argument against the Budget. He is absolutely right: this Budget will lead people into dependency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on a point made by Dr Cullen, who I see is now the Minister in the chair. He said that as a result of the changes in Part 2, the incentives will be there for people to move off dependency and into work, and that this Budget will achieve that. Well, last week I gave an example to the House of a family on $50,000 a year deciding they would like to have more free time and reduce their income by half\u2014to $25,000 a year. In gross terms, that is a 50 percent split, from $50,000 to $25,000; but if we look at what it means to that family, right now, as a result of Government subsidies and the like, we see that the $50,000 family moves to an income of $742 a week. However, the $25,000 family does not move to an income that is half of that; it moves to an income of $609 a week, as a result of the various incentives it gets. So does this Budget actually restore the incentive for that family with two children to remain on an income of $50,000 a year? No, it does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EIt is true that, as a result of this Budget, families with two children will eventually\u2014in April 2006\u2014have a weekly income of $839. That has gone from a gross income of $962, because they will still have to pay tax, but they will get some money back in the credits and end up with $839 a week. But if they halve their income, if they decide to take half of their time off, do they end up with their income being halved? No, they do not. Their gross income is $487, and, through these subsidies, it increases to $746. So they are only $91 a week poorer by working half the amount of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EWhen we look at this Budget and the logic of it, we see that people who have two kids and earn $50,000 ought to halve their income and the amount of work they do, because the Government will give them so much in the way of subsidies as a result of their reduced income that, in real terms, 20 hours a week becomes worth a heck of a lot more than $91 bucks. I tell Dr Cullen that that is the problem with this Budget. That is the reality. People will look at this Budget and realise that it is saying to them: \u201CThe Government wants you to have a low income. The more you lower your income, the more money you will get from the Government.\u201D That is what should be upsetting Paul Adams and United Future, because, although they identify that this is a bit of a trap, they say they will vote for the bill. That is what is wrong with these tax credits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EPolitically, this Budget will work against the Government. I will explain that to Dr Cullen, because this is not the first time I have seen this sort of Labour Budget. I pulled out some comments that were made about David Caygill\u2019s Budget in 1989. People described it as a \u201CMichael Joseph Savage Budget\u201D. Did it work? No, it did not. This Budget will not work either, because, firstly, most people on benefits do not intend to stay on them\u2014they will not give the Government any thanks for this Budget\u2014and, secondly, people do not intend to stay on low incomes for the next 2 years so they can take advantage of all these handouts. Some people might end up still being on low incomes, but if we are talking about their intentions, they will be against this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003EOf course, as has been pointed out, the majority of working families get nothing from this Budget, and the vast majority of New Zealanders get nothing. I have given one example, but I would like to talk about what is really wrong with this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u00221ec3d2832ad9480e8defb1e2c6219c5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ec3d2832ad9480e8defb1e2c6219c5c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister of Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022209730d22d16458eb9f12204be5120ea\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 7; United Future 8;.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 40\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002200830e544b5b4b1496f64cba6dd24067\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200830e544b5b4b1496f64cba6dd24067\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I want to bring your attention to the debate the member Clayton Cosgrove was involved in. You ruled on the comments he made concerning tax evasion. Comments\u2014and Deborah Coddington brought the matter to your attention\u2014in that exchange, where the member used the words \u201Ctax evasion\u201D, were a reflection on all members, not only on Deborah Coddington. Also in that context Katherine Rich\u2019s name was mentioned, and I ask that Mr Cosgrove be asked to withdraw and apologise for those statements about tax evasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b7435326114290a93429acce75441f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: No. The matter should have been raised at the time, by the member concerned\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b80a7f192094e37880df07b43f08285\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: At the time Deborah Coddington did raise a point of order, but subsequent to that we have been able to determine that, under Standing Order 116, \u201CPersonal reflections\u201D, bringing Katherine Rich\u2019s name into it is unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022701c99799b4c42e6b37549a8fa13d196\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022701c99799b4c42e6b37549a8fa13d196\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I just clarify for the member that I was not referring to Katherine Rich, at all. I would not do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc8600d24eee48aa91aa37f94d46ae81\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I tell the member that the point should have been raised at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef36d1f827fc436d99de817b000f6273\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: The member just said he was not referring to Katherine Rich. The question is, then: whom was he referring to? When the words \u201Ctax evasion\u201D are used, it implicates somebody. In this case, the implication was against Deborah Coddington. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b39b95d59b22401eafd4c21121798d90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b39b95d59b22401eafd4c21121798d90\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The point has been made by Madam Chair\u2014and she is correct\u2014that points of order have to be raised at the time the matter occurs. There are good reasons for that, partly about recollections, and partly about the fact that there would otherwise be endless points of order relating to something that happened the day before, hours ago, or whatever. It is clear in the Speakers\u2019 Rulings; points have to be raised at the time matters occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022 data-id=\u0022175aa474e63b41dd9fc1247ae429bab9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022175aa474e63b41dd9fc1247ae429bab9\u0022\u003EHon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The problem we have in this case is that while what Dr Cullen says is correct, this was a case when a serious reflection was made against a member. The point of order was raised at the time. I understand there was some disorder in the Chamber, and it may well be that the noise was sufficient for you not to hear it. But other people did, including listeners on the radio, and we have a situation where Mr Clayton Cosgrove made a personal reflection against a member in the House\u2014one that causes grave concern. You did not rule on the matter\u2014I hope because you did not hear it\u2014but now that you are aware that it was heard and raised at the time, I think it would be appropriate for you to ask Mr Cosgrove to withdraw and apologise for making such an allegation against a member of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5d2c7d821644136bc663e7e4b1f56a9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: At the time that Deborah Coddington was raising the matter, we had had a discussion about the part, and the issue of taxation, and I honestly thought that that was what Deborah Coddington was raising the matter about. I think the matter would be cleared up if Mr Cosgrove were to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00220d14fd03f1914763a31f77a42c72ef20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d14fd03f1914763a31f77a42c72ef20\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Peter Brown to clause 36 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new subclause:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E(11A)  For the purposes of this Act a family is defined as one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E   (a)\t   in which there is at least one adult member; and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E   (b)\t   in which the members have a biological or legal relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002262a567f525c74ffca0cf38a837e55daa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 19\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 87\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 21; Green Party 7; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002247600f3713164e488017a3b1b848733f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 79\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 7; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022edcd84839d3646708c2a6a20a83d1f1d\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002204942e4784594292b6d882c50fe7f285\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 79\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 7; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c279459b1da42b8afdfdea8e79fc627\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222fd8c604227f4b489054f020525efa56\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 79\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 7; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f17f70765d804b679801de7a5dd9ea3f\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad736e9cb2904efda3e42f41f6dab290\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 79\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 7; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022732602c3618a4a29a57737b1951b34fd\u0022\u003ESchedule 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224a7f9b01653141c09409b51e1e1318af\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 79\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 7; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6af6f5c8eee4914b55040843d41440e\u0022\u003ESchedule 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bba95101cb464ed69386f312ca63feba\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 79\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 7; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u00229400a74e8a1a4605a57220860ec99340\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229400a74e8a1a4605a57220860ec99340\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E As I rise to speak on the title of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, I find it quite clear from the debate already on this bill that it is a totally inappropriate title. I ask the Minister in the chair, Michael Cullen, what sort of future direction he plans for this country when, in fact, we have seen that what is in this bill will lead more middle New Zealanders into dole queues and dependency on the State for handouts. The Minister is proud that he will make some families who now earn $80,000 dependent on handouts from the Government. What sort of future will that be for our country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThere is nothing in the legislation that is designed to retain some of our best and brightest New Zealanders who are leaving this country. There is nothing in the legislation that talks about growth, or that provides a grand vision for creating a country that our children and our children\u2019s children will want to stay in. There is nothing that will keep our doctors from going overseas to Australia, our nurses from going to the UK, or our social workers fleeing from the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, to get better incomes overseas. There is nothing, and that is why I think the Government is very disappointed that the reaction to this bill has been not quite what it would have expected. Dr Cullen thought his Budget would be welcomed with open arms, but the response has been poor in some sectors. Many people have said there is nothing in it for them or for their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd4a632e0fde4273a9d7ff2f9d6526ec\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022482780686aff47fbb2fb08d40091a99c\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: Four out of five New Zealanders have worked out there is nothing in the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill that could make a skerrick of difference to their lives. I wonder if Dr Cullen has seen the headlines in today\u2019s Otago Daily Times: \u201CBudget on the never-never \u2026\u201D, and \u201C \u2018Battling NZers\u2019 will have to wait\u201D, or the commentary that states: \u201C\u2026 Michael Cullen may have squandered the opportunity to leave a lasting mark on the New Zealand economy \u2026\u201D. This bill is about future directions, and I think we have shown in our debate what a different opinion to Labour we have about the future direction for this country. We do not see that capturing middle-class New Zealanders to be dependent on State handouts is something to crow about. The Minister wants the country\u2019s people to feel grateful for getting back what was their own money in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThat is why this is a \u201Cnever-never\u201D Budget. That is why it is not about future directions; it is about a direction down to the soup kitchen. That is why this bill is not about working for families. How can it be, when four out of five families look at this Budget and say there is nothing in it for them? This is a Government that laboriously debated the definition of the family. \u201CFamily\u201D was going to include almost anybody who had a psychological attachment to any other New Zealander. But in this bill a family is defined in terms of only those people who have children, because they are the only people to benefit from this particular Budget. It does not matter if a young married couple, just setting out and having to pay back a mortgage, is trying to get ahead to reduce debt before having kids. There is nothing in the Budget for that couple. There is nothing in it for a young apprentice who has just left an apprenticeship and who is going out to work for the first time. His or her taxes will now be redirected to pay for some of the initiatives in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThis bill should not make middle-income New Zealanders increasingly dependent on the generosity of future Governments. That dependence is not something to be excited about; it is something to be embarrassed about. Families who earn $80,000 are now being asked to go to the Government to get a handout\u2014basically, to get the taxes they have paid in the first place. This bill does not work for families. It is not about working for families; it is about four families working harder than ever to pay more for one family that may already be dependent on welfare. That is what this Budget is about. It is a welfare Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThat is why the response from the community has not been overly excited. That is why most people can look at this Budget and say there is nothing in it for them\u2014[Interruption] If that member does not think that that is the case, obviously he did not tune into the Holmes show last night, where four out of five Kiwis said that the Budget did not do it for them\u2014four out of five. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c25dffb8a78f499fad320a647674b791\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c25dffb8a78f499fad320a647674b791\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of New Zealand First, I rise to speak to the title of this bill. The title is appropriate. It is short and concise, and it lets people know exactly what the bill is about. This bill will work for families. The worthy goals outlined at the very start of this bill should help families in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThis bill is about future direction. We want people to work and to be able to go back into the workforce. The childcare subsidies that we read about in the bill are absolutely critical to ensure that work is made more attractive for people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is tired of reading negative reports about families and their children in New Zealand, and how they miss out. This legislation actually helps to ensure that those children do not miss out. We see children missing out on the basics, and that is not what a First World country should allow. We do not want to be a Third World country, at all. This bill really is one for families, and New Zealand First will be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI am amazed that we continually hear about the Holmes poll last night. I know for a fact that most low and middle income people in New Zealand do not spend their money on ringing the Holmes poll; they save their money for something for their children. It is not low and middle income people who ring the Holmes show. Those people at the top end who can afford it, ring in; low and middle income people spend their money elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThis legislation is good news for New Zealand families. We have looked at it overnight and we still support it, so New Zealand First supports this part as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u00225a905bf1488e4618a90613a303b907d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a905bf1488e4618a90613a303b907d4\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT party to talk to the title of this bill, which should in truth be called the \u201CFuture Elections (Working for Welfare Families) Bill\u201D, because that is what it is all about. That is what the future vision of this Government is\u2014getting more and more people on to welfare and State dependency so that it can guarantee to have their vote in future elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThat is what the Government thinks will happen but it actually will not, because people do not want to live on welfare for the rest of their lives. They know how dispiriting it is, and they know what it causes. In the case in Carterton where the child \u201CLillybing\u201D was abused and died, the family had $1000 a week coming in, in various forms of welfare payments and family support. That family was not financially poor. It suffered from a poverty of spirit, and that is what locking people into welfare dependency gives to them. The only way such people can increase their incomes or get bigger houses is to have more and more children\u2014children who are not wanted or cared about. In that case\u2014a most disgraceful situation\u2014a child was left clinging to a toilet seat for 4 hours, clinging so that she did not fall in. That is the vision this Government wants for this country. That is what this bill will do for families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe bill will do absolutely nothing for the Kiwi battler on Struggle Street\u2014not a thing. Members of this Government should listen to talkback radio, but they are too snobby to do that and think that talkback has a lot of whingers and moaners. Talkback is the people\u2019s Parliament and it is what makes the world go around, in this country. If Government members listened to talkback, they would hear what people are really saying about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThey are saying there is nothing in it for the working family. We can take the example of a teacher, married with two children, who is earning $50,000 a year and next door a family with two children earning $25,000 a year. Both families are living in the same street in Auckland and paying $300 a week in rent or mortgage payments. The family who works twice as hard to get $50,000 is sending across the back fence, to the other family on $25,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc0c5c30f2e41d0acdf1215a36d91f9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Unbelievable snobbery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216de6774931245a3be2e1ea8bf53f6c2\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister can take a call if he has any problems with what I am saying. He is sending across the back fence around $200 a week. He is sending another $100 a week to the Government to spend how it likes. Why does this patronising Government not just allow those people to keep their own money, so that they can be rewarded for working hard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThis Government, though, thinks that earning $50,000 a year is being rich. One is considered rich and high-income if one is on $50,000 a year, and what does this Government do to those it thinks are rich people? It takes money away from those people, just because they have it. The best thing this Government could have done for families in this country was to give them a choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI bet this Government has not seen the press statement from the School Trustees Association this morning, which said that the association has no chance of meeting its budgets now, because of the miserly increase this Government has made in the operational funding grant. ACT would not actually make the grant any greater, but we would let the funding follow the child.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThis Government entrusts parents to give it their votes every 3 years, but it will not trust them to pick schools for their children. It allows parents to choose the family doctors they go to\u2014it does not do that based on where they live\u2014but when it comes to choosing schools for their children, the view is: \u201COh no. These are just ordinary people. Ordinary people cannot choose. They do not know what is best for their children.\u201D This Government thinks it does know, so that is why it will bring in a bill it calls the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. It is an absolute disgrace that this Government thinks it can direct how families will go in the future of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022f26167e376c441de98be6df006afba63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f26167e376c441de98be6df006afba63\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to take a very brief call on the title clause of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, because we think it is a very good title. When we want to work for families and set future directions, we have to understand that that is not an event; it is a journey and a process. This legislation, by the very title that has been chosen for it, talks about a journey and a process rather than an event, and we applaud that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe have already signalled the fact that there are additions to those future directions that we would like to see addressed in the future, and the truth is that we want to achieve that in a different way from the way suggested by the Opposition. The Opposition says: \u201CThe way to fix this, United Future, is just to pull the Government down and throw it on the mercy of the Greens and New Zealand First.\u201D, as if that will somehow translate into outcomes for families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWell, that is not the way we work in United Future. The way we work is that we honour our word and maintain our commitment. Our commitment is to both those who elected us, who are family people, and to the Government that the New Zealand public put into power. Let us just remember what the voters said on 27 July 2002.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future will not allow its judgment to be clouded by what is not being achieved by this bill, but will choose to focus on the substantial achievements offered by this legislation. If the economy responds as Dr Cullen hopes, then United Future will take every opportunity to further the issues that we consider still need to be addressed, so we will continue to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00224039b826c470450887f573637bfaf423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224039b826c470450887f573637bfaf423\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E If ever there were a bill whose title was a misnomer, it would be this Labour Government\u2019s so-called Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. We know that this is a bill where the future direction is more and more taxation\u2014and more and more locked-in dependency\u2014by the Labour Government. If this bill had an appropriate title, it would be something like \u201CThe Labour Government is Desperate to Win an Election Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThat is summed up perfectly by the front page of the Dominion Post, which says: \u201CThe centrepiece of the Budget is a Working for Families package worth $221 million this year but rising to $664 million next April\u2014in time for the election.\u201D I see Dr Cullen sitting there with his hands steeple-ing, and I ask him: what else is it? Will he take a call and answer? The article then goes on to state: \u201CIt will cost $900 million and then $1.1 billion in the next two years, which Labour is likely to use as a carrot to win re-election.\u201D As I said, if ever there were a bill more incorrectly named in terms of the future direction for New Zealand, it happens to be this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EPerhaps another appropriate title might be the \u201CLabour Government Working for Some Families, but Neglecting Many Others Bill\u201D. That is backed up by the very fact that there are in the order of 25,000 young children automatically excluded from an entitlement of 20 hours\u2019 free attendance at early childhood centres. Members have heard the Labour Government crow about the 300,000 families who are covered by this bill, but we know in actual fact that only one in five households in New Zealand will be helped in any way by it, and that 80 percent of households have been utterly neglected by Dr Cullen and his friends from the Labour Party. Is that the sort of future direction this country wants? Undoubtedly, it is not. Looking at the 25,000 young children who will be excluded, we realise that that means about 1,000 privately operated early childhood centres, and the children going to them, are absolutely ineligible. Working mothers who use private early childhood centres will be surprised to find out that the Government values their children less than others. If ever there were a directed piece of blatant electioneering, it is encapsulated in the title of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EDr Cullen knows very well that what he should have been doing was working on what he set out to do 4 years ago\u2014the achievement of sustainable economic growth for this country. But, no, he has reverted to form. After 4 long years, what has he come up with but a blatant election bribe, when he knows very clearly that he should have been taking advantage of those 4 years of reasonably good economic growth. Instead, what do we see now but a big spend-up\u2014a huge spend-up\u2014and Treasury predictions of continually falling economic growth. This Government came into power when there was a rate of 4.9 percent economic growth, and the record shows that it has fallen gradually ever since. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EAnother appropriate title for this bill could be the \u201CSteve Maharey: Let\u2019s Complicate the Social Security Act Bill\u201D, because Steve Maharey was the very man who said: \u201CLook, we want to simplify social security.\u201D Well, as we go through Part 2, we see that it is nothing more than a classic Labour Party beat-up on how to complicate a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022002f1afec17c4123af98f62a39f30fe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022002f1afec17c4123af98f62a39f30fe1\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E The Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill is very poorly titled. Perhaps it should be called the \u201CLabour Future for Working Families is the Road from Work to Welfare Bill\u201D. That would have been a better description of it, because what it does is say to people like the teacher in Waih\u012B: \u201CEven though you are a valued professional in the community, even though we want young people like you to make a commitment to the teaching profession, unfortunately the wage and salary increases expected in this country are so poor and so despondent, that all you can expect is a Government benefit in order to keep up with the expenses of life.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022981e4bfc0a76474dadb0bdea3dab42a7\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The centrepiece of the Government\u2019s Budget, the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, should be renamed the \u201CLabour Government\u2019s Promise to Workers to Take the Road from Work to Welfare Bill\u201D. This bill says to teachers in our community, like the man from Waih\u012B who earns $55,000 a year, that the only chance they have for getting more income for their families in the next 3 years is to wait until 2007 to get a lousy $140 a week extra. That should tell every teacher in this country that the Government does not anticipate wage and salary rises from this economy in the next 3 years. It is saying to working New Zealanders that if they expect to have more value from the money they earn, they will have to take it by way of a benefit. We will see 300,000 families advantaged under this legislation, but 1.2 million families will still have to work and battle hard to pay their way through this very difficult world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI ask Dr Cullen, when he proudly says that this will give the Waih\u012B family on $55,000 a year an extra $150 a week in 3 years\u2019 time, what will happen to that family if that particular teacher has moved up through the salary scale\u2014remember, he has two salary levels to go yet\u2014picked up maybe one or two management units, and got himself over $60,000 a year. The answer is that he gets very, very little, and certainly gets a lot less than he would get if a tax solution had been found that would advantage low-income New Zealanders. This will go down in history as legislation and a Budget that gave up on growing the New Zealand economy and said, rather, that if New Zealanders want to get some advantage from being in work in the future, they will also have to sign up as welfare beneficiaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill should have its title changed. It should not be cynically described as the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, when, clearly, the only place it leads to is welfare, and that is not the sort of aspiration that New Zealanders expect from a Government. It will be good to get on the stump against Labour members some time next year. People will be saying: \u201CHang on, you guys spent $7,000 a minute passing a bill through all stages of urgency to put more money in our pockets. Where is it?\u201D The Labour members will say: \u201CWell, if you vote for us, you can have it in another 2 years\u2019 time.\u201D People will not believe it, because alongside that, they will understand that any prospect of wages and salaries growing in this country under this Government is now gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a58ecd538c6d4608afd248c4b287f877\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a58ecd538c6d4608afd248c4b287f877\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002216be6890eb9340a69fe9d14f292d96b7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 6; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 41\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224aa1dcb8593347a489e106a9ae257315\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 6; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002299feff8eb2394529b0c20f7486b168a3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 6; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022166d9a1402574a47baceb08608901de7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022166d9a1402574a47baceb08608901de7\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Committee divide the bill into the Social Security (Working for Families) Amendment Bill and the Taxation (Working for Families) Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 222.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022da736654e9da4472b65371040b06bc89\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 6; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000379\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fccb5e8d80a46019724873d533d03c5\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000381\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002243c9a485ee9143858a335a73014b9886\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 6; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 28\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230a87ea72de14cc5bf0e53d3c37937ea\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Working for Families) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230a87ea72de14cc5bf0e53d3c37937ea\u0022\u003ETaxation (Working for Families) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b753ec2a58e4dd7abc9d80dae9d3f69\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2308f6a08ff4cd99c51686039d2e395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2308f6a08ff4cd99c51686039d2e395\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment): \u003C/span\u003EI move, That the Social Security (Working for Families) Amendment Bill and the Taxation (Working for Families) Bill be now read a third time. Having listened carefully to the debate, I would like to take my few minutes at the end of this to summarise the excellent provisions in the bills, as they provide more support to low and middleincome families with children, and go on to address some of the other points that were raised during the debate. Families will be benefiting from the Working for Families package this year. On 1 October this year, housing will become more affordable. On 4 October this year, the thresholds in the areas of childcare subsidies and out-of-school care rates will be increased. We will see Work and Income New Zealand offering childcare to coordinators around the country to ensure that people access what they need. Contrary to what was being said here, people can choose whatever early childhood or quality childcare centre they want to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EOn 1 April next year family support, unsupported child\u2019s benefit\u2014the orphans benefit\u2014will be increased to some 260,000 New Zealand families, improving their weekly income by over $32 a week alone. That will happen as from 1 April next year. There will be changes to all of our systems to ensure that their value no longer erodes. The number of accommodation supplement areas will be increased from three to four, and the amount of accommodation supplement to people will rise. On 3 October next year, childcare and out-of-school care rates will increase again, assisting 28,000 families. On 1 October 2006 the new in-work payment will come in, providing $60 per week, $15 for each child in larger families. It will replace the child tax credit and ensure that work pays. Family income assistance abatement thresholds are simplified and made more generous on 1 April 2006. On 1 April 2007, family support increases once again, and the legislation locks in increases in all of those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EWe listened carefully to Peter Brown. Although we could not accommodate everything he said, we did move on the invalids benefit rules. We appreciate his support in putting that forward, and we would like to support him in doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI record now my thanks to all of the parties that have stood up in this House for low and middle income families with children who want to go to work to earn a dollar. They are the Labour Party, the Progressives, United Future New Zealand, the Greens, and New Zealand First. That is an overwhelming amount of support for making work pay for parents as they move off the benefit. We will increase the family income, address accommodation affordability, place childcare assistance on a secure footing, and simplify our social security system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThere are two things that are being supported here today that are absolutely the foundation of why I came into this House and why these bills came into the House. The first is social justice. We believe in social justice. That is why we are here. Today we have spread the money that is available, because of a growing economy, across those families that have worked hard and deserve to share in the prosperity of this country. That is justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe second thing we have stood for is social development. We have spread opportunity. We see in the paper today that people who have said that they could not go to work, now say that their dream has come true. They can now go to work, earn enough, look after their children, make a difference to their family, and get on with their lives. That is what social development is about. Those are the two things that we stand for on this side of the debate; and on the other side, predictably, disappointingly ACT and National have failed to stand up for kids and jobs. That is hard to fathom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI look at the lacklustre, pathetic performance of the National Opposition in particular. It knows that these measures are good and will make a genuine difference to 300,000 families in this country. National has put up a token argument. It has said that it might change things, and will not repeal things, and will do a little tinkering. New Zealanders know that the National Party will say that it will muck around with this package, but it knows good policy when it sees it. I look forward, as all my colleagues do, to the day we can get up on a platform and hear them go on and on about tax cuts as their only policy, against the fact that a family earning $55,000 a year, with four children, would gain only $39 from its tax cuts, as long as it went down to 20 percent, whereas, under this package, that same family will get $70 from 1 April next year, building up to $110 in April 2006, and $150 from 1 April 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI am begging for the opportunity to stand alongside a National Party person to listen to him or her say that that family will get less. National will cut that family\u2019s health, education, and all the other things that that family needs to be able to make ends meet. We heard National and ACT members say that if people take family support they will become beneficiaries. The bulk of the support comes through the family income assistance system. People will not go on to welfare. They will be rewarded and supported for having children and for going to work. This is about kids and jobs. It is not about the privileged few. It is not about them. It is about the majority of New Zealanders, kids, and jobs. Kids and jobs are what we are on about here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI thank Sue Bradford, Judy Turner, Barbara Stewart, and the other members from different parties who have stood up in the House to give thoughtful contributions. They have not just stood up, as members of the National Party and ACT have done, to try to fill in the time so that they do not have to worry about being told that they collapsed in front of this legislation. This is a collapse. National and ACT have no arguments. They have had hardly anybody down here. They have had nothing to say, but other people have come to the House to make thoughtful contributions to this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI, like those thoughtful people, want to see working New Zealanders get on with their lives. I want them to share in prosperity. I want their kids to be able to grow up to be secure young people and to take this country forward. I want them to share in the good things that we have to offer, and this Government will make sure that we have more and more to offer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EFinally, I thank the officials from the Ministry of Social Development, the Inland Revenue Department, and Treasury who have worked tirelessly to make this a real success for this country. They have worked tirelessly, because they know that this will make a difference. They have put their hearts and souls in it. It is a very, very important day for them as well. It is hard to pick out individuals. In particular, I thank Sue Mackwell from the Ministry of Social Development, Mike Nutsford from the Inland Revenue Department, and Paul Clarke from Treasury, for their particular efforts in their leadership of large teams of people who have done a large amount of work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EFinally, it has been a pleasure to work through this with my colleague Dr Michael Cullen because of three things. He brings to these issues a level of intelligence and commitment to social justice that makes him one of the best Treasurers, if not the best Treasurer, we have ever had in this country. I thank him for delivering this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a29924179aaa44279293985df3118a49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a29924179aaa44279293985df3118a49\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E After that patronising tirade, listeners will expect that this legislation will fix all the problems currently out there in our communities, all the problems that currently face New Zealand as we plan our future. The only future direction that this bill takes us towards is the dole queue and entrenched welfare dependence in this country. Dr Cullen had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make a big change to this country. After 5 years of overtaxation, he had an opportunity to invest that money in something that would grow the economy and close the gap between living standards here in New Zealand and in Australia, and he blew it. He did not do that. I read from the Otago Daily Times: \u201C\u2026 Michael Cullen may have squandered the opportunity to leave a lasting mark on the New Zealand economy and eventually attain legendary status in Labour Party history.\u201D Michael Cullen had a major opportunity to make some big changes, but he has not done it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EBy the Government\u2019s own admission, only one in five households will benefit from this legislation. Four out of five households will get absolutely nothing. Four out of five households will look at the changes that are being made and realise that they will get absolutely nothing. While that Government continues to patronise New Zealanders and expect them to be grateful for getting their own money back, that Government will miss the point. New Zealanders do not feel grateful for getting handouts. New Zealanders do not feel grateful for getting back their own money that they earned in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThere is no vision for New Zealand in making the middle classes dependent on welfare. Michael Cullen is proud that families who earn $80,000 will be dependent on handouts. Michael Joseph Savage will be rolling in his grave. When he first brought in the welfare State he understood that it was supposed to be for people who were genuinely in need, and people were supposed to do as much as they could to help themselves. The thought that handouts are being given to families who earn $80,000 will upset not only Michael Joseph Savage up there but also Peter Fraser, who, interestingly, was concerned that many people thought the welfare State was an armchair ride to prosperity. Well, we know where that armchair ride is to; it is to poverty and it is to entrenched welfare dependence. This Government will look back at this Budget and see it as a watershed for welfare dependence in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EWe have seen no vision. There is nothing in here that will contribute to growth, nothing that will allow New Zealand families to try to earn the $175 extra a week that they would get if they worked in Australia. No wonder our doctors are leaving. No wonder our nurses look across the ditch and see opportunities over there. Nothing in this legislation will try to make New Zealand a better place for those people. The young married couple who are just starting out, and are putting off having children so that they can pay their mortgage and pay their own way, get nothing from this legislation. The superannuitant gets nothing from it. I had a call to my office today from a superannuitant who cares for his son who is intellectually disabled. He said: \u201CI resent that my taxes are going to families who do not work in the first place.\u201D If members look at this legislation they will see that most of the families who benefit are already dependent on welfare. The original bill was called the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, but how can that be so when four out of five New Zealand households get absolutely nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders have worked that out. New Zealanders have realised it. They will not be sucked in by this Government, which expects them to be thankful for getting handouts, to be thankful for getting back their own money that they earned in the first place. That is why this legislation and this Budget will backfire on this Government\u2014because New Zealanders are not thick. They understand that this is a lolly-scramble. They also understand that this is not about solving problems out there in the community. This is about buying votes. This is about winning elections. If the Government is not cynically attempting to win votes, then why do these provisions not start immediately? No, most of the significant benefits kick in after 2007. This is probably the most cynical bribe I have seen in, certainly, my short lifetime. This legislation is about buying votes; it is not about solving problems within our community. That is why the Otago Daily Times called this Budget the \u201CBudget on the never-never\u201D. It is a lolly-scramble all right, but people get their lollies 3 years down the track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EI think New Zealanders will see through that bribe. They will see that this is not a future direction for their community that they want. The original legislation had in its title the words \u201CFuture Directions\u201D; I think that is laughable. What sort of future does this legislation build for our country? What does it do to make it easier for people to set up a small business? Where are the growth aspirations in this Budget and in this legislation? They are not there. This is totally about income redistribution. This is not about growing a pie; this is about redistributing it. In the long term, that means that New Zealand loses the chance to do something great with the overtaxation that the Minister of Finance has extracted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe Minister has taken funding from New Zealand families over a period of years. Sure, the Government has announced hip operations and knee replacements, but that is no consolation to those New Zealanders who have been waiting for the last 5 years for these sorts of changes. The timing of all of this is for a reason. Although Michael Cullen says that Budgets are not put in place to win votes, I think New Zealanders are not stupid; they can see that this is a cynical attempt to win their votes. If it is not, then why do these provisions not kick in now? New Zealand First put forward amendments challenging this Government to put its money where its mouth is. If the Government is serious about these changes, why could they not start this year? The Government had no answer to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EPeople seldom feel good about receiving support from the State. It is adding insult to injury to overtax people and place them in a position of dependency just to get back their own money in order to get by. I can see why the Waihi family is not very happy about what has been done. It is a sad comment on this country if families who earn $55,000 doing jobs that we look up to\u2014teachers, policemen, etc\u2014cannot get by. That will be Michael Cullen\u2019s legacy with this Budget\u2014further welfare dependence entrenched into our community. There is no vision for our country in making middle-income New Zealanders more dependent on the State. That is no vision for our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThat side of the House should be embarrassed that that is the situation it is putting New Zealanders in. This Government had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to invest that money into growth, into something that would make a huge difference to New Zealanders\u2019 lives. What we have here is something that four out of five New Zealand households can look at and say: \u201CIt doesn\u2019t do anything for me.\u201D That demonstrates that this Budget and this legislation are short-sighted. This is about responding to Labour Party supporters and saying: \u201CHere you go, guys; here\u2019s your payback.\u201D New Zealanders will see through this cruel hoax. They can understand it. The Government is hacked off that people are not very grateful. People can see through the cruel hoax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ceb60b19e0ff43a48167ef64cf6e9fa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ceb60b19e0ff43a48167ef64cf6e9fa4\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E My colleague Steve Maharey referred to the opposition to this legislation earlier in the debate as lacklustre. Well, that was a very generous description. The member who has just resumed her seat has taken lacklustre to being an art form. In fact, if was a still-life art form, I think we would describe it as lacklustre on a lean. She was hardly able to hold herself up for the entire duration of her speech. Frankly, most of us had difficulty staying awake, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Opposition should know by now that just because it is called the Opposition does not mean it has to oppose everything, particularly when it is something that is good. There is nothing about providing working families with financial support, better assistance through the accommodation supplement, and better assistance with childcare that is worthy of their being voted against, let alone spoken against. All of those things should be supported. But it is not surprising that we now have a demonstration of the pure ideology of the extremists within the National Party. Lockwood Smith, Katherine Rich, and Maurice Williamson are, clearly, the extreme right wing of the National Party. They are the only people who are able to rise in this debate and oppose this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich seems to resent working families in New Zealand. She pays her taxes, so it should all go back to her! She seems to be the only hard-working mother in the country! I am sure she was too proud to take paid parental leave from the Government; that would have been an insult to her independence. I am sure she is too proud to take 3 weeks\u2019 paid holiday. I am sure she is too proud to take a salary, frankly. It would be so demeaning to earn a salary; she would much rather be totally independent. Well, I say to Mrs Rich that she is not the only hard-working mother in this country, and I am very, very pleased that many others benefit from the legislation we are going to pass later on today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI particularly look forward to the National Party campaigning during the election period against this legislation. I want to go around the country listening to Katherine Rich explain to a two-parent, one-income family with four children that earns $55,000 that this legislation is wrong. This legislation will give them $70 from 1 April next year, $110 from 2006, and $150 from the year after. I would like to hear Katherine Rich tell those people that that is wrong, and that it would be much better to give them a 20 percent tax rate, which would give them $39 a week. I would like Mrs Rich to explain that, and I hope that she explains that the reason she supports that tax cut, instead of our social development proposals in this legislation, is that she works hard and she should get back more of her taxes. That is what that member said to members earlier today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is a great honour to be part of this debate and to be in one of the many parties in this Parliament that are supporting the legislation to have come from the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. I want to acknowledge the Labour-Progressive team here, but I also acknowledge that we are being supported on this legislation by United Future, the Green Party, and New Zealand First. That is quite unusual, and it is a particularly proud moment for all members of New Zealand First for them to be able to say: \u201CWe looked at the legislation, we understood the intent, and we are going to support it.\u201D The members of all those parties can now go around the country and say: \u201CWe back working families.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe support social justice. We say that the many hard-working families around New Zealand deserve ongoing support, and when our financial circumstances mean we can increase that support, we should do so. Working families deserve support. They have worked hard, and they are getting that additional support in this legislation. The issue of social development is one that, clearly, has totally bypassed the National Party and ACT. They would not understand the term, so it is no wonder they oppose its implementation in this legislation. But social development does make a real difference to people\u2019s independence, their self-esteem, and their ability to earn their own way and care for their families. We should never underestimate the value that that contribution makes in our society. It provides the opportunity for people to support themselves and their families in dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI end by endorsing the comments Steve Maharey made in relation to the officials from the Ministry of Social Development, the Inland Revenue Department, and Treasury. They are well worthy of commendation during the final stages of this legislation, because their work has been huge, and they have applied their considerable intelligence consistently over many months to produce this legislation. Steve Maharey and Michael Cullen also deserve particular mention. To have in our caucus two men who provide such intellectual rigour, vision, determination, and commitment to this legislation is something I am very proud of. I was going to say \u201Cyoung men\u201D but I think that would be a slight exaggeration. But I am very proud to be part of the team they lead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb533da7e53f47728e10eb0fc66476fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb533da7e53f47728e10eb0fc66476fc\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First will support this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224339dd1905846c39afe456b3f70d979\u0022\u003EGovernment Members\u003C/span\u003E: Good!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253861af0c0b54a04a9d33f217ab93de3\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Goodness me, I have said only about four words! [Interruption] I hear that I should sit down while I am ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThis bill was delivered late to this House, in our view, and we read the aims on the very front page, and thought they were exceedingly good aims and very commendable. How could we not support them? To oppose the Government on this bill would have put us in an impossible position. We had to support this bill. But I need to tell members that we have some real concerns about how things come and go through this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe think that a bill of 50 pages, which is quite complicated in parts, should have gone through a more extensive process. We are fearful that there might well be some mistakes in this bill. Indeed, from looking at our amendments, the Minister has picked up a mistake in the bill, which, I am pleased to say, he has recognised and given New Zealand First the credit for pursuing it. But we think there might well be other mistakes. We hope there are not, but we think there might well be others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIt saddens us that this bill will not take effect for quite some time. Indeed, I think the first measure with any meaningful deliverance will not take effect until April next year, so we think this bill could have been put under the scrutiny of a select committee. That way\u2014and maybe Mr Baldock and United Future could listen to this, because they go off on a tangent quite frequently\u2014we could have challenged the statements the Hon Steve Maharey made that there is not the money to pursue this bill any quicker than that. I would have liked to cover that point in depth, because I believe there would be a way around it. I believe that this bill could have been implemented a lot more quickly. I cannot categorically say that, but I believe we should have had the ability to challenge and scrutinise that statement in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First does not just roll over and accept everything that is put before it. We like to know that there are the nuts and bolts, and we would have preferred that this bill go to the select committee. There is time enough\u2014plenty of time\u2014for it to be referred to a select committee, be examined, and, if necessary, come back as it is and be implemented in the time frame stipulated in the bill. But I have strong suspicion that had it gone to a select committee, and had our members had a fair opportunity to examine it in detail, we would have been able to tell the Government how to implement these measures more quickly. We would have been able to tell the Government how to pass on the gains in this bill to families in this country well before April next year, which seems to be an alarmingly long time away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EToo frequently quite extensive legislation and Supplementary Order Papers come through this House at the last minute and we do not get the chance to examine or scrutinise them in full. Nevertheless, the bill is here. We hope and pray that the Government has got it right. I would like to say with confidence that it has got it right. I certainly think the direction is right and the aims are very worthwhile, but I do not know whether the Government has got the nuts and bolts right. We have scrutinised this legislation as best we can in the time frame under urgency. There is a lot of pressure on MPs to examine a bill of some depth in a relatively short time and come up with the right answers. So we hope the background work has been done. We hope that it all sticks together, not only for the Government\u2019s sake\u2014well, I am not too worried about the Government, to be honest\u2014but for the people of New Zealand who will benefit from this. That is where our principal concern is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIn summary, the aims are worthwhile, but the process is wrong and ill considered, and I believe that, to some degree, this has treated Parliament with some contempt\u2014particularly after last Monday, when members all gathered in this House and told the nation on live television how important Parliament is and what it does for the people of this country. This bill should have gone through the proper process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EHowever, I am pleased to see some more money in the pockets of family people in this country, as against sitting in Michael Cullen\u2019s chest\u2014not his physical chest, but the little chest he sits on at night when he goes into his office, counts all those gold coins, and says: \u201COh, another billion here!\u201D. We would prefer to see some of that money in the pockets of family members in New Zealand. We know there are people out there suffering. We know there are people out there who need a helping hand, and we know that this bill will eventually help them quite some way\u2014if the Government has done its homework correctly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EAs I said, the legislation should have gone through the correct process. We would have been able to challenge the assertions of Steve Maharey when he said the Government could not deliver any more promptly because of money problems. We are not totally convinced by that argument; nevertheless we will support this bill, and we hope that families and New Zealanders are better off in the long run for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b86fa21bfb35492f9de6603a873b8313\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b86fa21bfb35492f9de6603a873b8313\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday afternoon when the Budget was announced, I felt genuinely moved and gratified that at last this Labour Government was doing something that would directly go some way towards alleviating endemic child poverty. Overall, the Green Party has welcomed\u2014indeed, applauded\u2014the Working for Families package, which at least partially redresses the structural imbalance between rich and poor that has developed over the last 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, there are a few issues of concern lurking beneath the socially benevolent exterior of the 2004 Budget. Those are issues that the bill in front of us today actually brings to the fore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EFirst of all, and most alarmingly, upon reading the fine detail of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill, some of us were somewhat startled to discover that suddenly and without warning the special benefit is to be disestablished and replaced with a much more limited form of assistance called temporary additional support. Now, to those who are happily not familiar with the labyrinthine intricacies in New Zealand\u2019s income support system, that will not mean much, if anything at all. But for those who depend on that very system for enough money to live on, the special benefit is, unfortunately, an unavoidable tool of survival.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIn an ideal world, the Green Party would like to see that special benefit, and the whole complex range of third-tier assistance, abolished completely and immediately\u2014and we would welcome such moves to do that from the Government. The 35 or so forms of benefit and allowance that have grown up over the years are a nightmare to administer. They soak up huge administrative costs, including salaries, which could be put to a much more productive use elsewhere in the economy, or even within the Work and Income system\u2014for example, in providing a lot more vocational support for unemployed people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe special benefit also has a particularly difficult history, because it has been administered so ineffectually and with such random application between geographical areas. As a result of that, beneficiary advocacy groups in the last couple of years have carried out what they call special benefit impacts in Rotorua, Hawke\u2019s Bay, and the East Coast, in an effort to get Work and Income to pay people what they were actually entitled to in the first place in those areas that suffered particular discrimination. Those impacts have had a significant effect in encouraging local departments to improve their attitudes towards beneficiary entitlements. The Government is to be commended for the work it has done in trying to reduce some of the greater inequities and stupidities in special benefit administration, for being prepared up till now to budget more for special benefits, and for having an overarching policy that says all beneficiaries should actually be able to access their full entitlements\u2014quite a novel notion, really, in the history of social welfare in our generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, what we are seeing in this bill in front of us this afternoon overturns all of that. The effect of this bill is to remove the special benefit and replace it partially with something called temporary additional support. While that sounds fine on the surface, in fact what the Government has not spelt out in any of its great Budget promotion in the last 24 hours is that this new allowance will be much lower and far more restricted in its application than a special benefit. When I introduced an amendment during the Committee stage this morning to attempt to reverse that aspect of the bill, I was probably naively surprised when the Government suddenly placed a fiscal veto on my innocent little amendment, alerting me to the fact that the financial implications of what was going on were probably a lot worse than I had suspected. I then turned, rather belatedly, to the estimates themselves, to discover that the Government will be saving $7 million on the special benefit in 2004, $45 million in 2005, $57 million in 2006, and $91 million in 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWhile there will be some compensation for some future beneficiaries in the fact that those with children will gain through the new family support regime, and while some people will get help through the additional temporary support allowance, the savings I have just outlined go to show that, in fact, the Government plans to gain a substantial amount overall from cutting the special benefit. The people who will suffer particularly are most likely to be beneficiaries without children and those who have particular high living and medical costs. The Government will save a great deal of money from scrapping that benefit, at the expense of a lot of people who rely on the temporary support it affords them in otherwise desperate situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIt is particularly disturbing that the Government is rushing a change of this significance through under urgency, and under the cover of a bill that, overall, seeks to improve things for families and the poor. That is the sort of administrative change and benefit cut that should have been subjected to the normal select committee process, where all concerned groups and individuals could have had a chance to analyse the bill closely and make their views heard. I just hope that the Government implements its further promised reforms of the benefit system with enough alacrity, and with enough compassion, to ensure that the kinds of social and personal disasters that could result from what it is doing today, will not in the end eventuate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EApart from the matter of the abolition of the special benefit, the Green Party has some broader underpinning concerns about the way this new legislation will continue to bed in and extend the discrimination between the families of beneficiaries and the families of those in paid work. Beneficiary families gain only very modest amounts from changes made in the legislation, and the new in-work allowance is directly aimed at encouraging beneficiary parents out of their homes and into the paid workforce. I have no problems with anything that can be done to assist people into the paid workforce, but what we should not be doing as a society is saying that, firstly, somehow the children of those people should be punished for the situation their parents find themselves in, and, secondly, that somehow people should be forced into getting a job\u2014of any kind, at any cost. People should have the choice of staying home with their children when those children are young, and should not have the kind of pressure put on them by a society that says paid work is automatically and intrinsically worth more than caring for one\u2019s children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EA third area of concern, which New Zealand First brought up in this debate, is the timing of the proposed changes. We were happy to support New Zealand First\u2019s amendments\u2014which were also met with a fiscal veto\u2014that changed the timing so that increases to family assistance and the rest of the changes could be brought in a lot more quickly. Of course, the Government says that it cannot afford that. But we can see the Budget the Government is dealing with, and we say that if the Government were serious about supporting families now\u2014and it acknowledges for the first time that there is serious child poverty in this country\u2014then those changes should have been brought in a lot sooner. Through the media in the last 24 hours I think we have seen some of the people who have been really upset to have heard, first of all, the promises that Dr Cullen made yesterday afternoon, and then to have realised that the impact of those promises\u2014the benefits they will gain, and whether they will mean a few dollars or a lot of dollars\u2014are not really going to hit in for at least a year, if not 2, 3, or 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EA further area of concern is that area around the accommodation supplement. The Government is putting a lot of hope into the fact that the accommodation supplement will increase for some people. We see that in the long term the accommodation supplement is not the solution. It is a subsidy to landlords and employers, and the Government should be putting a lot more focus on extending social housing stock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EBut, overall\u2014and in some ways I am sorry to have been so negative in this final speech on this bill\u2014the Green Party is delighted with the direction the Government is taking in this legislation. We would also like to acknowledge the role that United Future played in putting it together. We are delighted that Labour is helping families overall, and that it is finally making an overt commitment to ending child poverty, and that is long overdue, so we congratulate it on the overall direction it is taking. We will vote for the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u00227d597f220293495ca9dc3c45bbe7f911\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d597f220293495ca9dc3c45bbe7f911\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E ACT New Zealand will be opposing this legislation, so the Minister will not be disappointed. I should point out that we oppose this legislation for several reasons, but the first one that is certainly worthy of note is the way in which the Government, as it has several times during this session of Parliament, is showing yet again its contempt for the democratic process. Despite the staggered commencement dates that the Government has put forward for the introduction of many parts of this legislation, it has insisted on having this bill heard through all its stages in urgency. There will be no select committee process, no public scrutiny, and no time for the Opposition to look carefully at the pitfalls in this legislation that the Government obviously is not the least bit interested in. The Government is exhibiting yet again its \u201Cdon\u2019t worry New Zealand, we know best, just do as we tell you\u201D attitude. This is wrong. The New Zealand public knows it is wrong and will vote accordingly at the next election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EOur other concerns are of a much more fundamental nature. We should completely ignore Mr Maharey\u2019s very clever words about social justice and social development. In fact, we should point out that this legislation is about social engineering. It is about engineering the social fabric of New Zealand society. At the end of the day this legislation will mean that more New Zealand families will be dependent on the State. This legislation is about welfare dependency. It is about vote buying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThis Labour Government is very happy to have New Zealanders dependent on the State. When people are dependent on the State they are not about to vote for somebody else. That is what the legislation is all about\u2014welfare dependency. Time and time again ACT New Zealand has railed against welfare dependency. There are much better ways of going about promoting families in New Zealand society, progressing New Zealand, and ensuring that we have strong economic growth. This Budget is a tax-and-spend Budget, and the legislation to support it will not achieve any of the visions that ACT has for New Zealand\u2019s future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt is worth taking a moment or two to look at some of the comments that the Minister in charge of the legislation, Mr Maharey, made when he was debating it. He said that New Zealanders are excited about it. I look around this House and I do not see a great deal of excitement. The place where I see the least excitement is on the Government benches. There is not a great deal of excitement in the press gallery. Where have the journalists gone? They know what the legislation is about and they will be reporting that. Then there is the Holmes show poll. Are New Zealanders out in the provinces excited about this legislation? No. In one newspaper report today about this legislation one man said: \u201CThis is not enough.\u201D In fact, there are many reports of a similar nature. That is the trouble with welfare dependency in this country\u2014there is never enough. When people are dependent on the Government, when they have their hands out expecting money to come to them, there is never enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2310ba2f5a7489a9651804623dac3e8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And they\u2019re never grateful, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af975ad4fc0414194a51693d61b7329\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: That is entirely right. We need to make people responsible for themselves. We need to encourage people to be responsible for themselves. People can spend their own money more wisely than the Government can on their behalf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First members made some very interesting comments during the debating process. Mr Maharey was nodding his agreement and shouting out in support of them at one point. They said that this bill would help people to get into work. But, not surprisingly, not one person stood up in the debate and said how that would happen. The reason for that is simple\u2014there is not an answer. How will anything in this legislation help people get into work? It will not. It does not help business, which creates the wealth in the country that would help people get into work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EMr Cullen stood up yesterday and said that there is a $6 billion surplus. I agree with the National Party member Katherine Rich that Mr Cullen had a golden opportunity yesterday that he turned down. It would have cost the Government $5.5 billion of that $6 billion surplus to implement a 20 percent flat tax rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c075739aaa14e45be3beab28b0c5343\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c88ed82f4f04f9bbb93f26da9fb7ab9\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Cullen groans because he knows that it is correct. That 20 percent flat tax rate would include personal and company tax rates\u2014a 20c in the dollar flat tax rate. Imagine the business that would come back to New Zealand if our tax rate was 10c in the dollar less than Australia\u2019s. Business would flow back to this country, there would be more jobs than we knew what to do with, and families would flourish and prosper. This legislation, perhaps more than any other legislation we have debated in the time I have been in the New Zealand Parliament, shows the differences in attitudes to the fabric of New Zealand society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d40c502ddda94395b590149c18f45e36\u0022\u003EGovernment Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a540ddfe38416aab9aa0584aea88d8\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: I am glad that Government members agree with me. In fact, it was the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor who first pointed this out. We have a Labour Government that likes telling people how to live their lives. It is happy to assist people in doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c45d521fd9b4b8ab393b60bddac8c5b\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Socially develop them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fc1fce7643b4389ab0bc54ebf858e72\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government socially develops them. It hands out money so that people become dependent on the State. Why does the Labour Government want State dependency? It is so that the people who are dependent on it will vote for it. Government members are in trouble and they know it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EHowever, on this side of the House we know what it is to have responsibility for oneself and for one\u2019s actions. We know how that benefits people. We know the value of having a safety net, not a safety hammock that traps so many people in it that one cannot tell the needy from those who are capable of taking responsibility for themselves, looking after themselves, working for themselves, and providing for their own families. This country needs a safety net, not a safety hammock. All that this Budget and this legislation will achieve for the 300,000 families it is making dependent on the State is a safety hammock. It is trapping them further and further into dependency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIf we look briefly at the main objectives of the legislation, firstly, it is to make work pay for parents who move off benefits into work and to increase family income. Let me tell members opposite that lower taxes would have done that in a much more fiscally responsible way and in a way that is much more responsible for individuals. It was interesting to watch some of the television commentators yesterday discussing the legislation as the provisions in the Budget unfolded. In fact Chris Trotter has some very interesting comments to make. He said that he could not really work out what the details of the Budget were. He said that the most interesting point\u2014and this is very pertinent\u2014is that people must apply for every different step of the provisions within the legislation. They will not. I predict that approximately 20 percent of people will find the system cumbersome, complicated, and will have a great deal of difficulty applying for the provisions. That may be what the Government wants. It does not want people to cost it more money. A tax cut would automatically have gone to every working family in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe other benefit of tax cuts, of course, is that they do not cost the country a huge amount of money. Every time we churn money through Government departments\u2014and I am talking in an administrative sense\u2014we lose approximately 10 percent at every step. We have people working, the money goes from tax to social security, and 10 percent is lost at every step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022728479fa3342487fbe1ba55ad9b57aec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022728479fa3342487fbe1ba55ad9b57aec\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E For all the talk about individuals and beneficiaries, we seem to forget that this package is about assisting families, and that is why United Future is supporting this bill. Families are worthy of support. The decision to start a family involves a degree of financial sacrifice, and some would say that would-be parents have to take responsibility for the decision to start a family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future believes that families are the cornerstone of our communities and our nation, and they need to be recognised and supported. If one parent decides to stay at home and look after children, then there is a potential loss of income. If both parents go out to work, then there are childcare costs. In clinical, economic terms, with children comes the arrival of non-productive yet highly consumptive members of the household. That is why the key mechanisms of this package put the focus fairly and squarely on children. Both family support and the in-work payment weigh joint income against the number of dependent children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThat said, we have expressed reservations about the fact that the key delivery mechanisms for this package come in a form that would appear to families to be, for all intents and purposes, like a benefit. In general, we would prefer that working families did not have to receive assistance in the form of a weekly payment alongside their wages but, rather, indirectly as more money in their pay packets, or as a lump sum at the close of a tax year that could be used to offset large expenses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E But we recognise that it would be more difficult, although not impossible, to use generalised tax cuts in such a way that recognises the different needs of different families, as they all come in different shapes and sizes. A cut to the 19.5 percent rate would be welcomed by all families and individuals alike, but it does not take into account the additional financial constraints faced by families. United Future\u2019s own suggestion of income splitting would assist those families where one parent chooses to stay at home or work only part-time, and would be the perfect complement to this legislation today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EAlthough not fully comprehensive, the use of family support and the in-work payment as key delivery mechanisms in this legislation do at least recognise the needs of families, so when many elements of the taxation system assess an individual\u2019s income, these are measures that are based on family income. At the end of the day it is worth remembering that they are tax credits, not benefits, and they have been in place in some form for some time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe increase in eligibility and in the rates for the childcare subsidy also recognise the costs faced by families, as well as the goal of ensuring that all-important pre-school education is accessible to all families. My only regret in that respect is that such measures effectively favour families whose parents both choose to work. This is not to pass a value judgment on this decision, but merely notes that the option of either parent spending some of their working life at home with their children is not supported in a similar way. In the end, such financial implications mean that the choice to do so has become less of a choice and possibly even a luxury, or, as the Minister has said, an ambition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe other element of this package that United Future finds favour with is the extension of its reach into what might normally be considered middle incomes. The Government\u2019s first instinct in developing this package was to lift the living standards of those families on low incomes, whether or not they were in work. As the fiscal situation has appeared more favourable, we have been very pleased to see that the Government has recognised the increasing hardship of those families that would not consider themselves poor, but are finding it a challenge to get by. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EPreviously, families earning over $30,000 would have received the message that they were considered too wealthy to get help. Family support for a family with one child extinguished at a combined income of over $30,000, child tax credits disappeared at $33,000-plus, the family tax credit applied only if a family earned less than $18,368, and the parental tax credit starts abating at $33,000. The Government did not provide childcare subsidies to those with an income over $32,240. Yet families that earn over these amounts face impediments that others do not. They may face higher marginal rates of tax at $38,000. They are more likely to have student loans to service, which is just like another tax and takes even more money out of their pay packets. Someone who is earning $50,000 will be $3,000 or $4,000 worse off a year, thanks to a student loan repayment. These aspirational families are also more likely to want to buy a home, and that is no mean feat in today\u2019s buoyant housing market. United Future is not afraid to say that it backs these families, and we are pleased to see that they will come within the ambit of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI want to touch on one final point. This package is also about ensuring that work pays for those moving off benefits, creating a gap between work and welfare. However, the way it does that is not immediately apparent, since a simple reading of the bill would lead to the conclusion that both benefit-led and working families get a lift. But if we examine the way the different provisions interact, we find that the size of this increase will be different for families, depending on the source of income. The enactment of this legislation will mean that financial assistance towards the cost of children will be primarily paid through one payment\u2014family support. This means that the basic benefit rates do not include a child component, since it is loaded into family support, which is then readily transferred when a family moves from benefit income to paid work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe think that a key requirement for the success of this provision in encouraging beneficiaries into work\u2014and this is very important\u2014will be to ensure that they can see the difference between what they receive in benefits and what they receive in family support, so that they will know what they will retain by starting work. It may take some work to get the balance right, but this bill at least provides the model through which such incentives can be created. For that reason, United Future is very happy to support the Labour-led Government\u2019s legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u00229604a11d974e402c87aa558c43232806\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229604a11d974e402c87aa558c43232806\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make one point. I take my point from the \u201CACT - National Party\u201D manifesto, that august magazine that did a Budget special that came out this morning\u2014the National Business Review. I am drawn to the headline in that august magazine, which reads: \u201CIncentive to work package is a welcome signal\u201D, when speaking about the Budget and particularly the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill. It states further that this Budget: \u201Cmakes a potentially valuable contribution to economic growth.\u201D It then states: \u201COne of the items on the Budget wish list of many businesspeople is encouragement for people to work to fill the skilled labour shortage that has emerged as a significant growth constraint.\u201D The package is a welcome signal. The Government is saying to the country that it values people who want to work, and is prepared to provide rewards and incentives to back that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290dc357c0b004f25b00ee6cd4cbc7fa9\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a handout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e9a3a3430246a4a2616aa0233e70bf\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is not a handout. I am reading from a magazine that points out the unstable party of ACT, whose members cannot decide among themselves a potential leader, and have to use the people\u2019s money to stump the country for airfares, and run a primary election to try to sort out their own stability, so that eight members can elect one member. They are using the money and the resources of this country, but they are absent during this great Budget debate. Their contribution is zilch. The papers say that the main contenders, Hide and Franks, adore the leader of the National Party. So we see this slipping through the cloth, in the shallow arguments, but in the confluence of their approach to this legislation a party is emerging\u2014the \u201CACT and Hide National Party\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI endorse this bill. The National Business Review, that august organ of the ACT party, the august organ of the National Party, recognises that the package of this bill provides an incentive to work. What the previous speaker seems to have ignored, and the previous speaker for ACT seems to have ignored, is that this puts money where it is needed. The effect of this on business is very, very strong. This is money that goes into the pockets of people who need to spend it, and will spend it in the businesses that the ACT party and the National Party claim to represent. If they had their way of tax cuts there would not be sufficient money to boost the business economy, and the very people whom they claim to represent would be suffering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis is great legislation. Not only does it recognise the importance of families, and not only does it support them in the vital parenting role, but it also reinforces the approach that families are backed by strong services for the times they need a little extra help. Tax cuts would not give that assistance, but discreet services, discreet assistance, as is provided in this legislation, is the most plain and elegant way to provide that. That is an issue not spoken about by some speakers, and an issue that was not even considered in their speeches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI am proud to represent a party that is stable and can stick with its leader, as opposed to the two parties opposite, which have leadership problems\u2014there is a temporary leader for National, and an indecisive leadership position for ACT. We have a party that says we have our act together, and we know how to help people who need help, and they are the parents with young children. They are the parents who work hard and want to get into work, and provide this economy with a cash flow. That is the reason that I think this is a great day for New Zealand. This was a great Budget for the country. For years after, people will speak of the 2004 Budget as a watershed in the country\u2019s affairs. They will speak of this as legislation that set this country on the future path of great economic security, social contentment, and advancement for all the hard-working, decent people. I thoroughly endorse this legislation, and every considerate, well-intentioned, thoughtful member of this House will do likewise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6fe3638c10544a9aff3e1ec1af9ba0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6fe3638c10544a9aff3e1ec1af9ba0e\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E About the only thing I agree with, that the honourable member said, is that this measure will set New Zealand on a path\u2014but a path towards more and more welfarism. We know from history that that is not good for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWe have seen in this last 18 to 20 hours a very shoddy legislative process. This is important legislation. It deals with very complex matters, and it is a disgrace that this Labour Government did not see fit to send this legislation to a select committee. There was absolutely no need to ram this through Parliament under urgency. Nothing happens for months, with this legislation. Some of it does not happen for years. There was no need to ram this through Parliament under urgency. It is bad legislative process, with legislation as complex as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ESome might ask why this legislation is so complex when it is just handing out a bit more welfare to hard-working families. The reason it is complex is that it deals with the interaction between people on benefits who are trying to leave those benefits, doing more hours of work; the tax credits they receive as they do that, and the interaction of the abatement of the benefits, as they do more hours of work; the abatement of the various tax credits they receive\u2014and they can receive three different lots of tax credits under this legislation; and how that interacts with the progressive old-style progressive income tax system. That produces an extraordinarily complex set of interactions\u2014such that at present we have real genuine poverty traps in New Zealand, which no one can support and like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWe have a situation right now of, for example, a married couple, where one is working and they are on the unemployment benefit. They receive family support, and are trying to get off the unemployment benefit. The person working is a low-skilled $10-an-hour worker. That family, at present, after they have worked 8 hours a week at $10 an hour, earns a certain amount of money. Under current arrangements, if they were to try to earn a dollar more, they would not succeed in that. If they worked not 8 hours but 20 hours a week, they would not get another dollar. If they worked 30 hours a week at $10 an hour they would not get another dollar. At 40 hours a week that family is still in the poverty trap. They would not get another dollar. Only after they had worked 49 hours a week would that family get another dollar. That is not my research; that is the work of a researcher at Victoria University, Patrick Nolan. That is a serious poverty trap, because there is a low-skilled family on a benefit, trying to get off the benefit\u2014trapped! This legislation purports to try to do something about that. The issue is that we do not know whether it has or it has not, because a select committee has not had the chance to examine this complex legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ELet me share with members another reason why some of this legislation is so complex. This legislation retains what is known as the family tax credit. That tax credit guarantees a certain level of family income, after tax. This legislation eventually will raise that after-tax income by a couple of thousand dollars a year. But that family tax credit currently abates at 100 percent, so as that family earns one more dollar they lose a dollar of their family tax credit. That does not change with this legislation. I ask Dr Cullen: \u201CDoes that change?\u201D, because that is another poverty trap. How could anyone support something that taxes a person at 100 percent? Yet that is what happens with the family tax credit that this legislation perpetuates. No one explained\u2014not Dr Cullen, not Mr Maharey, no one\u2014whether the family tax credit abatement in this legislation removes that poverty trap. Earn another dollar\u2014be taxed another dollar! That is outrageous. The Government members sit there saying this is wonderful legislation. They should let the select committee examine whether it has dealt with those poverty traps. It is shameful\u2014I do not believe one member sitting on the Government benches could explain how the in-work payment arrangements in clause 39 work. I would not mind betting that most of those members opposite could not even do the maths involved in working out whether people are still caught in the poverty trap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296e7741d67dd4df684fe4f35d0ebd06d\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Like this member can?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dafb7c398c845b194118b124fc07acc\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Could the member repeat that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8a90e91074743239ad7be5149636498\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Like this member can?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bd6e1ee01f64bfbb08eb6142f372e75\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It might just surprise the member that I do know how to work it out. I have done a lot of work on it. That is how I can tell that member exactly what the current abatement regimes are and why, in fact, people do face those poverty traps. In this legislation, the poverty traps have been moved further out. The explanatory note of the Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill states: \u201Ceffective marginal tax rates (EMTRs) will be improved for low income working families with total income between $20,000 to $27,500 a year,\u201D. That will not be done immediately, but when the abatement-free threshold changes for the family support tax credit. I would not mind betting that half the members opposite do not even know why that is the case. The problem is, as the explanatory note goes on to state: \u201CHowever, EMTRs will be higher for some middle and higher income families not previously eligible for assistance:\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAll the Government has done is shifted the high poverty trap hurdles\u2014the high effective marginal tax rates\u2014just a bit further up the income tax scale. It has not solved the poverty trap problem. Labour members sit there and say what wonderful legislation it is. Why did they not let a select committee look at it to see whether those serious poverty traps were properly solved and whether the abatement regimes, as all these tax credits interact, produce rational effective marginal tax rates? But no, the Government did not want that to happen. Do members know why the Government did not want that to happen? The Government was frightened that once there was decent scrutiny of the legislation, the weakness and ineptness of it would be plain for all to see. This is a con job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhat has happened under this Government is that the average working person in New Zealand has been taxed more and more. That is what the OECD analysis shows. We have the second highest increase in the OECD in the tax that is taken off the average working person since the Government has been in office. Then it says, with this legislation: \u201CAren\u2019t we wonderful? You can come along, cap in hand, to us and ask for some of it back. And if you do what we want, we\u2019ll give some of it back to you after a while. But if you dare to send your child to a private early childhood institution, oh, no, we won\u2019t give it back if you do that. You\u2019ve got to send your child to an institution we like\u2014in other words, a community one, or a kindergarten.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThat is an outrageous manipulation of people, using their own money. [Interruption] The average worker that this bill addresses earned that money\u2014not that member. She earned none of it. The average working person earned this money. That member has taken it off them, and is coming to them and saying: \u201CWe\u2019ll give some of it back to you.\u201D It is a con job in order to bribe people with their own money. It is cynical, because it is not given back to them until after the next election. The people of New Zealand will see it for the cynical election bribe it is. It is poorly thought out and shows no innovation about how to solve the poverty trap problems. It shows an arrogant Government that thinks the public is stupid enough to be bribed with its own money, but the public is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u0022277794256af24ec8a89e7b4bc9020c0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022277794256af24ec8a89e7b4bc9020c0f\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand in this House and speak in this debate. A couple of weeks ago I was a very proud grandfather attending the birthday party of my little 2-year-old grandson. I was sitting there looking at those little children who were enjoying that party, and then I looked at their parents. Not too many years ago they were the little 2, 3, and 4-year-olds coming to my house for my own children\u2019s birthday parties, but now they are young parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThey are the young parents this Budget seeks to help. They are the young parents who will wonder why the National and ACT parties say that they should not have $25 a week for those little children\u2014that they should not get extra money in their wage packets to look after those little children, because it is not, philosophically, the correct way to do it. Well, they will be really interested in that argument when the rent has to be paid, and the National Party has said that they should not have enough money to pay it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003ESome people in this House have short memories. The National Party would believe, and ACT absolutely believes, that anybody who dares take money from any sort of Government system\u2014whether it be the old family benefit system we grew up with, or the family support system we are talking about here\u2014will turn that person into a beneficiary and a bludger. Well, every New Zealander alive today should be described as a beneficiary and a bludger, because all our parents were in receipt of the family benefit when we were growing up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EMy mum and dad bought the first family home with the help of family benefit capitalisation. When they started to have a heap more of us, they capitalised a bit more of the family benefit and built an extra bedroom so that we were not all in the same room together. Seven of us grew up not to be bludgers and beneficiaries. I dare the National and ACT parties\u2014or anybody else in this House\u2014to front up to my brothers and sisters and tell them that they are bludgers and beneficiaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EOf course, Mrs Rich might be silly enough to do that, because she has not been around long enough to understand the ethos of New Zealand\u2014that we are not a nation of beneficiaries and bludgers just because the Government finds a way of assisting us when we need help most. When we are young parents with the big overheads that come from being on small wages and having to pay rent and mortgages, that is the time that New Zealand has traditionally helped families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EDoes Mark Gosche on a salary of $120,000 a year need an extra $25 a week? No, he does not, and he is not getting it from this Budget. But I did not rush to the telephone to ring up the Holmes show and say: \u201COh, there\u2019s nothing in this for me; I\u2019m against it.\u201D No, I said: \u201CBloody great!\u201D, because my grandson and his parents, and all of those young people who are now parents, need that money. I applauded it. I voted for it, along with New Zealand First, Green Party, United Future, Progressive, and Labour Party colleagues. We know what it is like to be young parents, struggling every day to find enough money. That lot over there, too lazy even to go out and even visit a constituency, let alone win one, do not have a clue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EMrs Rich would not have a clue what it is like to be one of the struggling young parents in this country, where every dollar counts. They do not like being told that they are beneficiaries and bludgers by the likes of her. They know what she got up to in her first few years in this House. They know that she took plenty of time off to have children, and then she voted against paid parental leave. That is the sort of nonsense that New Zealanders understand. It is described by the sort of word I cannot say in this House, but they know what it is. Those people over there have been employed for the last 4\u00BD years in Opposition and still do not have a policy to help young families and the parents who brought those little children to my grandson\u2019s birthday party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EIt is a proud day every day to come to this place as the representative of the people of Maungakiekie. When I go home, I do not expect them to come to my house and say: \u201CWell, great. You did an excellent job.\u201D All we have done is what they expect us to do\u2014make proper laws and write good Budgets that reflect what the vast majority of New Zealanders want. It is a fair system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EMost of the people who are now grandparents like me will be saying: \u201CPersonally, I do not need huge amounts of money in my pocket, because I have gone through the hard years of my life. The mortgage is on the way to being paid off, or is paid off, I have a reasonable income, and I want to see my kids and their kids get a decent shot at life.\u201D I want them to have childcare, a bit of money to pay the rent, some money to pay for food, clothing, and the normal things that people in the National Party and ACT do not even have to worry about, because a lot of them have never ever struggled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI find it absolutely extraordinary that somebody like John Key, who is proud of growing up in a State house with all the benefits the State poured into him, is opposing this bill. He was not a bludger or a beneficiary before he came to this place, but what has he been doing in the last 4\u00BD years? He has no policy, so is he earning his keep now? Absolutely not! That lot over there on the Opposition benches are bereft of ideas, have no policy, and are just telling ordinary New Zealand families and their kids that they should not get this money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThe ACT party says: \u201CVote ACT and we will give you $39, because that miserable lot called Labour will give you $150.\u201D Well, that makes a lot of sense, as its members fly around the country at taxpayers\u2019 expense, trying to figure out who the leader is by holding a primary. I want to get Mr Hide back here to perk-bust his own party so that they can ask themselves who is paying for those air fares. We want Rodney Hide to come back and answer the question about who paid his airfare so that he could go to Dunedin to stump up to the 3\u00BD members of the ACT party who turned up to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThis is a wonderful Budget and Mr Steve Maharey is a great Minister. I am extraordinarily proud of the enormous work he has done, and of the work of all my colleagues in Cabinet. The Minister of Finance and every single member of this Government contributed to this package. We are proud of it; we will go home tonight feeling proud of it\u2014and our constituents out there will be asking why that lot voted against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a19306ac33447f7b782569ac28a0d7d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that Lindsay Tisch and Barbara Stewart will take a 5-minute call each. I presume there is no objection to that course being followed? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00225a478b58198749dc9709180b074720f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a478b58198749dc9709180b074720f4\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E I have sat through all the debates on this legislation, from the first reading right through until now, as we are closing the third reading. It is interesting to note that of all the speeches we have heard, this afternoon\u2019s third reading speeches from the Labour members have been the most proactive in trying to gloss over the in-depth problems that will occur with this legislation. During the Committee stage\u2014yesterday and earlier today\u2014only five Labour members took a call. The Committee stage was when we went through this legislation part by part. It was when we digested, dissected, and looked at what this legislation does. Yet only five Labour members thought it important to stand up and justify what this Government is doing and what the Minister of Finance did in the Budget announcement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273510c5a586c47bfbd91ab6d37eb2eb0\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be so silly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a44d4849aa343e3ae3ed3d7ebc14cb8\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: The member may make those sorts of comments, but at the end of the day we need to see what this legislation does. Over the last 5 years this Government has taxed at such a level that it now has a windfall of money\u2014and what will it do with it? It will redistribute. That is what socialist Governments do. They tax on this hand, build up a fund, and then on the other hand give the money back to the people it has already taken it off. Then they say: \u201CAren\u2019t we doing well.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWhen we look at it, if we want to lift New Zealand\u2019s living standards we do not just give money out, we have to grow the cake. We have to grow the economy. That is the basis of economics. What do the wealth creators of New Zealand\u2014those people who are prepared to invest and put a dollar at risk\u2014get out of this? Absolutely nothing. There is nothing in this legislation to say to employers that the Government will cut compliance costs, make it easier to employ staff, and allow them to compete in the market place. There is none of those influences or catalysts to grow the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWhat this Government has done, and what this legislation does, is lock people into dependency. Why would somebody on an $80,000 salary, with four children, get $25.12 per week in April 2007? Why would someone on that sort of income get $25.12 in April 2007? Why do those people need to be locked into dependency? They would far rather have a tax cut. Money in the hand today is worth a helluva lot more than what it will be worth in 3 years\u2019 time. That is the basis of economics\u2014money in the hand today, and what I can do with it, is worth a lot more. But this Government believes that it can do better with taxpayers\u2019 money than they can do with their own money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThis really means that the 300,000 families out there who will benefit out of this legislation will not benefit immediately. There will be some concessions for beneficiaries, but those low-income earners whom we all aspire to help do not get assistance until April next year, and then again in 2006. So here is a Government that says it will help those on lower incomes and in the middle-income bracket. That is fine, but at the end of the day if we study all the figures there is little for those people. That is why they will be disappointed and why all the media comments say that it is just a lolly-scramble, as my colleague said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe Government is saying that over the next couple of years many families will be assisted. The Budget benefits 300,000 households\u2014that is one in five, because there are 1.2 million households that get absolutely nothing out of this Budget. When it is scrutinised and when people ask where they get this big handout from that the Government is talking about, they will be bitterly disappointed. When I am on the campaign trail I will say that this was a hoax\u2014a cynical Budget to do nothing else but buy votes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3303a0d8ec74002985e20fc2dcfc091\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3303a0d8ec74002985e20fc2dcfc091\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of New Zealand First I rise to speak to the third reading of this legislation. As my New Zealand First colleague Peter Brown has already said, we will be supporting this legislation. It should be good for New Zealand families\u2014the low-income and middle-income families that it is actually designed for. This is a people\u2019s Budget. In this Budget the Government has recognised that families matter, and has developed a strategy to help and support New Zealand families. The old policies that have been used for years have not worked, and it is time to develop new ones, and that is what we have in this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe family support and tax relief measures will be a help for many families. With the increasing rise in the cost of consumer goods, like petrol and electricity, and the subsequent flow-on effect on foodstuffs, meeting the needs of a growing family has never been more difficult, and every bit of income helps. This Budget is one for children and their families, and this legislation shows that. The increased subsidies should make working far more attractive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI was reading recently that in 2002 only 10 countries showed Government spending that was lower than New Zealand\u2019s, so the choices between tax cuts for the wealthy, and policies that reduce child poverty, are real choices that needed to be made. They have been made, with families this time being a priority. Budget surpluses mean there is no excuse for not dealing with child poverty\u2014particularly when the Government\u2019s own reports show that nearly one-third of New Zealand children live in poverty\u2014and this has been done. We are a First World country and our children should reflect this. We once led the world with the care of our children, and we need to regain our place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EI can assure the House that childcare assistance is required for New Zealanders. Increasing the rate of the subsidy and the number of families eligible to receive it are good measures. I think back to the time when my son required childcare so that I could go back to work. Even 8 years ago the fees were extremely high, and I know that I paid the equivalent of another mortgage. I must admit that, like many mothers, I sometimes wondered what on earth I was actually working for. I ask how many other mothers come to the same conclusion and give up. Assistance in that area is really required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe measures that are in this Budget and this legislation will help families get back to affording the best they can for their families. Policies to improve the well-being of children all alleviate some of the challenges that most New Zealand families are facing at the moment. New Zealand families are struggling to make ends meet, and this legislation is a good investment for everyone. I must admit that New Zealand First wanted to see this legislation enacted as soon as possible, and we have got some concessions concerning that. We hope this legislation is accurate and contains no errors. We want to see a better future for families in New Zealand. This legislation has worthy goals, and New Zealand First supports it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002228b512d8244243838e38fa10c021b8c1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Social Security (Working for Families) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 6; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 26\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 4; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f847a904728e4f949be12f05f9b35e1c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Working for Families) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 6; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 26\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 4; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000506\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 3.38 p.m. (Friday)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200405276118acfd94ea4fa1b00af14df80fd4b6000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"