"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f09b01a9ef34e399cba09f75856e42b\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 August 2004\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a787dbb21e84ba78be98fda207a4ab3\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 August 2004\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc96d117cbff4b36ab6dd6734c829ed8\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257a6b0e8ee64456b8076e83f512e964d\u0022\u003ERanfurly Shield Win\u2014Bay of Plenty\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022350e48417f3646a9b87b587a895ed266\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022350e48417f3646a9b87b587a895ed266\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to move a non-controversial motion to do with the rugby events in the Bay of Plenty last weekend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e8dd9e50457469db59b3fb91caefb60\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a4beb88ed264925b6b99a054ad30b22\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae7d25a2dbf048eca9272d8a44be9add\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224aa0c4745bc44b42851bf060ba66dbb2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8e75317909e47c890667644348a99b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8e75317909e47c890667644348a99b5\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Following discussions with the Minister of Health and the Leader of the House, which I am grateful for, I seek leave for question No. 7 today to be deferred until tomorrow and treated as an extra question then, so that it can be answered by the Minister of Health, to whom it was originally directed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d2b6ea60c84957a4c4dfe482a6f4cc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. It will be so done and it will be put at No. 13. [Interruption] That interjection involves me. I actually supported Bay of Plenty winning it\u2014and I am an Aucklander!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224392220985044842a394c505991f8404\u0022\u003ETreaty of Waitangi\u2014Historic Settlements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224301f1abe1454aa7adbb7a49021103a8\u0022\u003E1. Dr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: What methods are being considered in order to \u201Cstreamline Treaty of Waitangi historic settlements\u201D, as stated in her press release of 21 July 2004, and why has the Government now decided that streamlining the process is necessary? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbe6781c8a60464ab03a011686b2166f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is enough. Anything more like that and people will be having an early shower. That is the only warning today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c891fb013e4e40fd938250d0fdee19fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c891fb013e4e40fd938250d0fdee19fb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: Firstly, the Government is considering ways to simplify settlement legislation so that once settlements are agreed they can be implemented faster and more easily; secondly, it is exploring the possibility of enabling legislation to make it easier for M\u0101ori groups to establish robust post-settlement governance entities; and, thirdly, it is looking at ongoing work surrounding their lodging of claims with the tribunal. This is all part of ongoing work to try to make the settlement process more efficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d31b801c7cf424a89b20837ce2b7624\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by her statement that placing a time limit on filing historic treaty claims is \u201Cout of touch and ignores the complexity of the treaty settlement process\u201D; if so, why has the Government completely changed its position to consider just such a time limit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f93bc1f8dd4371bb5c68453db49447\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It has not, which is probably why the Government is ahead in the polls. In November 2002, the Minister, responding in the House, made that statement. She was referring to the attempt to place an artificial deadline on the settlement of claims. She still holds the view that that is a stupid idea, which is not surprising, given where it comes from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022370f6b2a2c4041ab8de8122b739c1c16\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: In line with the Government\u2019s policy of constant review, what other examples have there been\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022830cff2ca7a1451aaa37d9486bfa0745\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have already warned members once, and said it was a final warning. Now, on this occasion I am going to be very generous and far too soft on issues like this. This is the one and only time I am not going to send the member out. No comments are to be made during the asking of questions. That is a democratic right. Please start again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216c6936a3a914dfe9e86f9c561fb0d3c\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: In line with the Government\u2019s policy of constant review, what other examples have there been of changes to the treaty settlement process in order to make it more efficient?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b8af7955084e52a16ceb7ec49faa2a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We have committed more resources to the treaty settlement process\u2014in particular, a complete additional negotiating team. That is why we are now in active negotiations with 12 claimant groups and in active discussions with another 15 groups, which is far higher than levels during the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228580e27ae6a3420baca56cc1bb42fcd4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not a fact that given the current speed of settlements of Waitangi settlements, it will take another 584 years, which is astonishing, given that in 1990 Jim Bolger promised to finish everything up by the end of the decade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b5ce7634e62421fbd01f204fd4db388\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, but even if it were true I doubt that the National Government would be any part of that during 584 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8cc2d6bbb946a4b4e75b950e898fd5\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister describe to the House the round-table partnership negotiations she has had with all future claimants about the streamlining process and the 10 to 15-year time frame, or is it simply that this policy results from Labour\u2019s increasing reliance on National for policy direction on issues concerning M\u0101ori and the treaty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b48dc84bbb48f4a8afa3cee7dc487a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may answer, in so far as this relates to his portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed61d2b0dd34885b458aa9a1e11d291\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has managed simultaneously to insult both the Labour Party and the National Party with that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a96ef1fd8744aa59fedeeb345f31210\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think they both deserve to be insulted, but let us have an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd9403b826be498c96e40871b19a5b7d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The first part of the point of order is out of order, but the point made is correct. Please answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efffbb7538b54644af758a9dd83c3960\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister and the Prime Minister both indicated a possible indicative timetable for the settlement process. The issue that is actually under discussion actively at the present time is whether there should be a timetabling limit in terms of the lodging of claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c3fcac46d61448c82f2a2e091aabca9\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: The tino rangatiratanga side of the partnership under the treaty would welcome early resolution of the ill-effects of the dishonouring of the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233377bfce89f41868346e43c9a7f40e4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please ask the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b080f01794141818a47f58621eab92f\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: What steps are proposed in the expedition of the resolution of these effects, to ensure that the quality of the partnership between k\u0101wanatanga and the rangatiratanga is enhanced and maintained?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223126f518b07444998927d2365478d455\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Each treaty settlement is, in and of itself, a separate case and has to be treated on that basis, and it may point to ongoing discussions of partnership between that particular iwi or hap\u016B and the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022552564261908468ba93e0a01364c5ad7\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: How much credibility should the House give to statements from the Minister such as the one in the question, that the treaty process is being streamlined, or the press statement issued by the Minister on Tuesday, 27 July where she claimed: \u201CRecent progress in treaty settlements confirms my prediction that the vast majority of claims will be settled within 10 to 15 years.\u201D, against the statement made by the Waitangi Tribunal on 27 September that this Government has actually been in breach of its undertakings with regard to the Te Arawa settlement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa17faa373943a7b0b7d5c58db10ee6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: On the latter matter, there are ongoing discussions and announcements to be made, but in general terms I would say I prefer the comments made by the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations to those of the Waitangi Tribunal on a number of instances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d945ab69db64d1189d91bcbac8e3f31\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s view that \u201Cstrictly speaking, the Treaty proper exists only in its M\u0101ori version\u201D; if so, how does that affect the treaty claims process, given the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s further view that, according to the M\u0101ori version of the treaty, M\u0101ori did not cede sovereignty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c629b85882974bb9ba42a7c35dd9cc6f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think if the member cares to re-analyse the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s statements in the latter respect, he will find they are a little bit more subtle than he indicated in that brief summary. I am assured that the Deputy Prime Minister was expressing his view as a historian\u2014as I believe that member occasionally still claims to be an economist, although not in Australia\u2014that, in fact, the notion of sovereignty as expressed in British understanding in 1840 can scarcely have been understood by those people signing the treaty in 1840. The fact of the matter is that M\u0101ori signed a version of the treaty that was in M\u0101ori in 1840. International law is quite clear that where there is a conflict between the native language version and the version that was signed, priority is given to the interpretation based on the native language version. The member may not like that, but it is a reasonable fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f32a469344cc4dbe8beb3ed37ccc872e\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that the deadline on treaty claims is a bumper sticker solution, which will only pitch New Zealand into a new cycle of grievances and claims; if not, what comments has the Minister received from the Prime Minister regarding her own proposed treaty time limits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f890e659ad764493b5f53232fd0e79af\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The difference is the difference between a time limit on the lodging of treaty claims\u2014which does not seem entirely unreasonable, given the fact that by the time it would be over, more than 20 years would have passed since the amending legislation\u2014and the settlement of all claims, which is not entirely in the hands of the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c17f68ef34462d8c8d3934e6b9260c\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Referring to the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s answer about the interpretation of treaties, is he familiar with the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which does not support his contention of the way in which treaties should be interpreted, and, more recently, Brownlie\u2019s most authoritative book on the subject, which makes it clear that the so-called contra proferentem rule on which he relies is no longer a factor to be taken into account in the interpretation of treaties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0198d03b6d497e9be80999e8c3bb4d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am familiar with that but, not to entrench upon other matters on which I have commented recently, I have a strong suspicion New Zealand courts might hold the view that the M\u0101ori version would have a very high level of priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f7d6ae6b7154750aaf07473f38675ad\u0022\u003EOil\u2014Prices\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220719624ecaf46e9bb46c3f5ac815940\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has Treasury revised its assumption that crude oil prices will ease back to an \u201Cequilibrium\u201D price of US$19 per barrel; if so, what are the Government\u2019s current assumptions for oil price trends between now and 2020?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00228ae7347719574c828feb17df7286d9f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ae7347719574c828feb17df7286d9f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Treasury is yet to begin its revised forecasting round for the December Economic and Fiscal Update. When that happens it will specifically identify the need to revisit the assumption for oil price trends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4cff6eeb479454598018cecbffd889d\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What planning, if any, is the Government doing to reduce the dependence of the New Zealand economy on oil, in light of the fact that the price of light crude today is nearly US$48 a barrel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d145e5dc3b6b4a799ee77d0a04a0aed1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague the Minister of Energy is working hard on sustainable energy options. It would be helpful if some of those options, such as hydropower and wind power, were more enthusiastically supported by the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc58912749344452bf7fb3965768bdc2\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Given the concern over high petrol prices, has the Minister sought the advice and guidance of Mr Jim Anderton, the self-styled \u201CMinister for Lower Prices\u201D\u2014as he told this House on 30 March, 2000\u2014or is Mr Anderton missing in action on this one, as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f5213abb87e4d30a98b5d369a64e410\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Anderton has certainly expressed concerns to me about the impacts of rising oil prices. Perhaps we could all hope that the various elements in this House will use their best endeavours to ensure, for example, that the Middle Eastern situation settles down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252e4323c0adc4f05b9393778292d342b\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister understand by the term \u201Cpeak oil\u201D, and when does he expect it to occur?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279f9efd8f8dc43c3b6538b9d595ee4d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have to confess that, for once, the member has floored me; I do not understand what is meant by the term \u201Cpeak oil\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e85bfb20fa25441fb2c23a5825bc76c3\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree, then, that the price of any commodity is likely to rise over time, when demand is increasing exponentially while supplies are being restricted by physical limits; and does he agree that oil is a commodity that has just such characteristics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a825295dad6949089f275dad32d93dbc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: In theoretical terms, yes; in practical terms, no. We have yet to reach the point where it is at all clear that new discoveries in oil\u2014and I now think I understand what the member was getting at before\u2014fall below the level of the projected demand for oil. At the present time, the production of oil is actually outrunning demand, and stockpiling is occurring. Prices are high because of, primarily, the uncertainty in the Middle East, plus the growing demand from China, plus the somewhat confused situation\u2014to put it kindly\u2014surrounding oil and gas companies in Russia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a48bfd016044410b27a983fec8ec9b7\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister been advised that the current oil demand is 81 million barrels a day and the total capacity of the world\u2019s oilfields to produce oil is 82.5 million barrels a day; and does he think that that provides sufficient headroom for demand to continue to increase\u2014for example, with China\u2019s 40 percent increase in demand in the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f55c10ee6b43368c2ac4b8a5510ab9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly, therefore, the member has confirmed what I have just said: supply is actually exceeding demand at the present time. And, as prices rise, that will encourage both new exploration and also new exploitation of known reserves that were previously uneconomic to exploit\u2014for example, the extremely large Canadian oil shale reserves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb563e1ebbe473393dacedda2488267\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister been advised that for some time now oil discoveries have been running at the rate of one barrel for every four that are burned, and how long does he think that that can continue; further, has he been advised that Canadian shale and tar sands oil will be extremely expensive compared with current supplies, as well as a lot dirtier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229216eb7b397243549e33a09325a3cb26\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly on the last point, given the nature of the area there are severe environmental issues, and exploitation would certainly be more expensive. But it does seem to me rather odd that a Green Party member would bemoan a rise in price for a limited product. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002242405ae5b6154ef390b033121314e5cf\u0022\u003EPost Primary Teachers Association\u2014Employment Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ef276aee7e4975939ce0fe65750e29\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Why will the Ministry of Education pay all members of the Post Primary Teachers Association $500 to sign a new employment contract while non-union teachers will receive no such payment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002231f72ba1f0a14475929f497de30def40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231f72ba1f0a14475929f497de30def40\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Acting Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister is delighted to see that the ministry and the Post Primary Teachers Association (PPTA) have made such positive progress in the current negotiation round. A settled industrial environment can only be good news for students. Bargaining is, of course, ongoing, and he does not want to prejudice those negotiations. However, he can say that the proposal for a $500 one-off payment recognises that many of the union\u2019s claims are not being dealt with through bargaining. Instead, they will be addressed through a longer-term process of engagement in working-parties, which will require considerable time and effort on the part of union members, and a settled industrial environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2e7f9a5029c4f578e67896179c4f64b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister regard the union membership of a teacher as a more important quality to be rewarded than the competence of a teacher?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aed94a7cb88d42609cbb13167b5bb5b2\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: He does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dea4b305217410cbb7b535dc4e5d09d\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any previous proposals to make one-off payments to teachers in order to settle collective agreement negotiations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bd6de0e402f49e1b01c2c577d2c6716\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. members will recall that in 2002 the industrial negotiations did not follow such a smooth course. At that time a proposal was put forward to make a one-off payment of $2,000 to teachers. That proposal was put forward by the then National Party leader, Bill English, who also argued that many of the matters in the PPTA claim should be dealt with outside the bargaining process\u2014which is exactly what is happening now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d763fb53054774b94d39ae1e658965\u0022\u003EJim Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Ministry of Education also pay all members of the New Zealand Educational Institute and all members of other teacher-related unions $500 to sign new employment contracts, thus clearing the way before the next election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022517355e7ff684bfe9731d41a08b7e584\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: It is not the Minister\u2019s role to get involved in the bargaining process. That would be between the two parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264a3385059b44dbaa014c52ede11224d\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister explain how paying PPTA members a bonus and sending teacher unions on courses that \u201Cdevelop knowledge, skills, and attitudes to become more active in and for the union\u201D assists with students\u2019 education in any way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce09c360e4d496cb02e3fd977f46cca\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that this is not a bonus. It is a proposal for a $500 one-off payment recognising that the union\u2019s claims are not being dealt with through bargaining, which is just what the past leader of the National Party Bill English has suggested. That is what is happening this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133ae386fe8a41de8e098709fd4e6b3e\u0022\u003EPaul Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile the additional payments to PPTA members with section 9(1) of the Employment Relations Act, which states that an agreement: \u201C\u2026 must not confer on a person, because the person is or is not a member of a union or a particular union,\u2014 \u2026 (b) any preference in relation to terms or conditions of employment \u2026\u201D, and if he can reconcile it, why is the Government so keen to remove this provision through the Employment Relations Law Reform Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afb410f959bd40939d63c6f2ed6f8cff\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member needs to be reminded that what we are dealing with here is a process of bargaining between the ministry and the PPTA, which includes a $500 one-off payment, because a range of issues are not being dealt with through that bargaining process. This will allow that longer-term process to go on so that other issues can be settled. That is what the payment is for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e1dbd4ed03f4519ab001b0df1617f80\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain to the House why 3,500 teachers, who will be covered by this collective contract, will not receive the $500 payment that he currently says he will pay only to union members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a5d3858367c4a8eb3846bfa413fbc0a\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister does not pay them anything. This is the ministry and the PPTA negotiating exactly as that member suggested they should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af3804d46e154de289e75c77fb1f943d\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b599c64f424bd3b29e91a391478eb6\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: He can answer the question himself; it is in his press release. He has made the suggestion on previous occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeeeb8347aee44098668f6c74c155252\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have now asked the Minister twice why one group of teachers gets the payment and another group does not. On two occasions he has given the same answer, which did not answer the question. I am now put in the position where I will have to ask the question again, which will mean that, as an Opposition member, I have had to use up three supplementary questions to get the answer to the primary question laid down as No. 3, which explicitly asks why the payment will be paid to some teachers, but not to non-union teachers. So I think the Minister should be required to answer the question that has now been asked three times, and I will have to ask it a fourth time, if that is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d7daebd78f45f385f8423600f4702e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think the member should have to ask a third supplementary question. I will ask the Minister to comment on the second supplementary question, and develop his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8012c34f98460794154db0fed79ac7\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Education\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fc7052b071b41ddb1c05e40056d77bb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will not have anybody interjecting like that at me. The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022836e1c6cfe854782a495304fc4c79324\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Under the Standing Orders in this Parliament, Ministers are not invited to comment on questions. They are required to answer them in the public interest. This is Parliament, where Ministers are required to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ff397dde5b4c8f9751f46c6b65ce36\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I adjudged that the Minister had addressed the question. I was, however, helping the member who asked the question, because I did not want him to have to use up another supplementary question. I now invite the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed6678030dd04cca99e6be51d4c67c26\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just point out that you have, I think, twice or three times criticised members of the Opposition for interfering on questions or raising points of order. Three times, in three questions that have been asked, members of the Government have called out before the member of the Opposition has asked the question, and you have not said a thing. I note that you have looked hard at them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022433347b53ff14ccc865f0ed96a71f889\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I looked hard to see who it was, because if I had seen who it was he or she would have been out the door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5bef16157394bb19c170a218470f3fd\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that, but during Mr English\u2019s point of order, comments were heard coming from the Government benches. That makes four times that members of the Government have clearly broken your rule, Mr Speaker, that you would be brooking none of that behaviour, yet it is the Opposition members who have been getting pulled up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f96e44cb9a45be89f350a1ca7fb897\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I made the mistake of being far too generous the first time when I should have ejected a member on my left. I apologise for that because I did the wrong thing. I tell members that if they interject in that way in the future, they will go straight away. I have had enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248c50b65d9634a179b3f775cbdd777dc\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I can do no better than to repeat that the bargaining process is ongoing, and that the Minister does not want to prejudice those negotiations. However, the outcome of those negotiations will potentially include a $500 one-off payment that recognises the union\u2019s claims that it will be dealing with other issues outside that process. That is why some people will get the payment and others will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228761f43404814da2bf2df138aec69031\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister inform school boards as to why some of their teachers will be paid $500 and some will not, and has he been informed by the boards of schools that they already have teachers approaching them and telling them that the boards will have to come up with the $500 for the non-union members, and that that is not what parents make donations for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c2e5f6847b4ecaad951becfed3d1dd\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The bargaining is not yet finished. We do not know what the outcome will be. I have no doubt that it will be a point of discussion between boards and the ministry from then on in relation to how those wages will be paid. I ask the member to note that the bargaining has not yet finished, and that the process must be allowed to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e943eaf309484492875adb07b43f4b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain for the House\u2019s benefit what the payment of $500 to union members has to do with teaching children effectively, and why he thinks that paying $500 to PPTA members and not to any other teachers, regardless of their qualifications or effectiveness, will enhance the learning of New Zealand students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225344b881c4914263a0bfc6de0c5b6f2a\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the settlement between the ministry and the PPTA will lead to a settled school environment that will be good for students. That is the second part of the question answered: it will be good for students to have it settled. Regarding the earlier part of the question, if such a payment is settled as part of the negotiations, it is for ongoing engagement between the PPTA\u2019s working-parties and the ministry to settle a range of ongoing issues. The member may not like the answer, but those are the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fa12d559cfd40baaf167b8d09856e5e\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Australia and New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203396e5c863941199059c14e119c9434\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he received on the comparative performance of the Australian and New Zealand economies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4de643cc9304823872cbc56816f92d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4de643cc9304823872cbc56816f92d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I have received reports showing that the growth in New Zealand\u2019s gross domestic product has outstripped Australia\u2019s for each of the last 4 years. Also, in each of those years we have had lower annual inflation and significantly lower unemployment. We now have the second-lowest unemployment rate in the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c31fd5ed853446e3993b647faa2e52f8\u0022\u003EClayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What other comparative reports and analyses has the Minister received on this issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8c2a42d0d445bb9f41899a40ae84ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen the claim that New Zealand\u2019s performance is so poor that we risk becoming unviable and \u201Cjust another Pacific Island State\u201D. According to the World Bank, which does know something about poverty, the gross national income per capita of the Solomons was around $1,200 in 2002, and of Samoa was approximately $3,000; in New Zealand it was just short of $30,000 per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae98a976ad94ca298f5b00a25134e7e\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true, on the basis of the assumptions made by the Treasuries of Australia and New Zealand about productivity growth in our two countries, that New Zealand\u2019s per capita income will never ever catch the level of per capita income of Australia, and that, as a consequence, the gap between our living standards and those of Australia\u2014already equivalent to some $200 per person per week\u2014will continue to widen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022852dbbe96cf4442892af99039fbe032f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not place too much emphasis upon long-term assumptions. As somebody once quite rightly said: \u201CIn reality, there are a great many \u2026 fundamental differences between the two countries, so a different growth rate should be no surprise at all. \u2026 This is neither \u2018good\u2019 nor \u2018bad\u2019. It just means that New Zealand is different in some respects.\u201D That was Dr Brash to the Trans-Tasman Business Circle in February 2000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f9af1ac98054cc988edca043750d1c2\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister did not in any sense answer my question. I asked him whether it was true, on the basis of the productivity assumptions of the Australian and New Zealand Treasuries, that Australian living standards would always exceed New Zealand living standards, and that the gap would in fact get larger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd7228c84e504291bf287f41ec09cc73\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member should remember what I said at the start, which was that he should not place too much emphasis upon long-term productivity assumptions. The fact is the same assumptions were made in 2000. The fact is we have outperformed Australia every year since then, under this Government\u2014which we did not do in the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd6c6e8a346b4a3fb243e3983e9ba012\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister still has not answered the question. I asked him whether it was true, on the basis of the assumptions made by the respective Treasuries, that the New Zealand standard of living would never ever catch that of Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d211af6f39b04d288d5555350f8df972\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Minister was asked to address the question. He certainly did on both occasions. He talked about assumptions not being justified, and that type of thing. He did definitely address the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d1ff2b9a1f84431858ce044dce52a94\u0022\u003ETaxation\u2014Tax Base Protection\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a1263d6ede44c5b8b92e73d70e71d70\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he have any concerns regarding the protection of the New Zealand tax base; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002250ba998e5a3d496383c5ff2c9edbefa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250ba998e5a3d496383c5ff2c9edbefa1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I am always concerned that the tax base is protected, because there are always attempts being made to undermine it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c5993dc951a4e1b8e29c66c4f91c073\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that one of the schemes outlined in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald was in fact the result of the neglect of the last National Government, which had in place a tax committee attending to those issues, and that the neglect was in the sense that it closed that committee down without the work being done properly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022206a58f1e6ba4552968cbf438cc2a3d6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister can answer the question in so far as it affects his portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd0328912664579b2dd6df20f8c8d42\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The McKay committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de565a16fc34abdbae6a585ef24d6a3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think the member is correct, but I would hesitate to say much more than that because the matters are still in front of the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022398f9eedf0cd4c5a9e52eec12a9745fa\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister able to update the House in relation to the underpayment of tax by the Australian-owned banks operating in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcee5b00f0724ab0889686a0350727e0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: As I indicated in the Budget speech last year, the Government was looking at the issue of the underpayment of tax by the New Zealand retail banks\u2014particularly of course, therefore, the Australian banks. Discussions have proceeded on a surprisingly cordial basis between the banks and the Inland Revenue Department, which is to say that there has been a recognition that it is a fair cop, and changes will be introduced in legislation soon that will see a significant increase in the tax paid by Australian-owned banks in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f68fbcdffcbc49e1bfc4ecb59295db6e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government doing any work on the principle that all such foreign transactions be regarded as income until the applicants prove otherwise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225473e594c81d461d9128fe8e9d3b4e77\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think we are proceeding on that basis at the present time. In relation to banks, I think I can say that the approach will be based essentially around a variation of the thin capitalisation rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b90d92a674846a4b74aba8254342c5f\u0022\u003EPrimary Health Organisations\u2014Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d435107e1d546ceb80326501982ef6f\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is she confident that all primary health organisations are delivering cheaper health-care to all New Zealanders; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022621859d905f54fe88ad8e79dbae0782c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022621859d905f54fe88ad8e79dbae0782c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am confident that the increased funding that is going to the primary health organisations has resulted in a very large number of New Zealanders, especially the most vulnerable, being able to receive more affordable health-care. For the first time in New Zealand, the doctors in those primary health organisations have declared the fees that they will charge with the increased funding, and the primary health organisations have undertaken to ensure that those fees are low or reduced, when compared with the fees charged for people who are not eligible for the increased subsidies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226986faa047984aa190e95fa56ab01fc3\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that a recent survey illustrated that in many cases interim primary health organisations charge higher fees than non \u2013 primary health organisations, and what does she say to the people who have to bear the brunt of increasing compliance costs, such as those arising from the Holidays Act and the increased bureaucracy of the primary health organisations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9289bef008947c092548fafd4cf1be3\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that the people in primary health organisations who are not being subsidised may well have had an increase in their fee. After all, the Government has not put any additional money in for them, and it is not unreasonable for doctors to increase their charges if they have increased costs. However, between now and 2007, when we will finally subsidise all New Zealanders, we will see some variation in the subsidies that people have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d5421c501b040098bbee7a6c93718ab\u0022\u003ENanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Are people who are enrolled in primary health organisations entitled to know what their general practitioner is charging them following the increased Government subsidies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d674e192bd38468ca3938a33687b4539\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and a very good example of that is in Nelson, where the local newspaper published all the fees for the local doctors. I have it here, and it is a very good publication. For example, the medical centre has free care for under-sixes, and the charge is $22 for 6 to 17-year-olds, and $22 for the over-65s. In fact, all the over-65s pay $22 in every practice in Nelson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022414c783487694f12b130b4a6f9a662bd\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Do all New Zealanders aged 65 and over benefit from the $3 maximum prescription charge as a result of belonging to a primary health organisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b8e1814d5b46b1a97e01d8bbe8fbf0\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: All New Zealanders aged 65 and over in primary health organisations benefit from the $3 prescription charge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9ce4379d2e748ec9b1396a2371ddf5e\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Why has this Government launched a multimillion-dollar Television New Zealand advertising campaign that tells Kiwis that joining a primary health organisation means they will get cheaper doctors\u2019 visits, when Ministry of Health reports show that non \u2013 primary health organisation doctors charge less than interim primary health organisations, and is that not because the administrative requirements of the primary health organisations are a nightmare?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e9372a902c64262bfccec787f1af88c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: With regard to the last comment the member made, no. The advertising is designed to inform the public of the services offered by primary health organisations. It became apparent that we needed to inform the public, especially when the New Zealand doctors said in May last year that general practitioners were crying out for the public to be told about the primary health organisations. In fact, they said: \u201CPrimary health organisations publicity drive urgently needed.\u201D I could also add that I think it is important that we inform the public\u2014particularly the Leader of the Opposition, because when he was asked about a primary health organisation he said that he did not know what one was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f485e0ad7a4e6daafa39f5a2dac57c\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister see any relationship between doctors putting up their prices and the increasing compliance costs such as those arising from the Holidays Act; if not, what other reasons has the Government given doctors to put up their fees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244709529578e4ac6a307610de6f96d90\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Doctors are private business people. They have the right to pass on costs, like any other business. But I will tell the member that we had a compliance test panel carried out in 2001\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aed2a6678914515ace688439de0e368\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has asked a question; she should at least listen to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290ac4326e5ce42e694f3f35dadbc338a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I will start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a577bcbe54b84d9c806d65c56652ba88\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister can carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9e2df93779439da327e3559bf9a4e6\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Let me continue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299afb5201d114451ace49c78982fdffe\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c62976bf5bb4c51872ff969bdfabe5b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am answering the question. If Mr Ryall stopped screaming, he might be able to hear the answer. He should take his pill. We had a test panel carried out on compliance costs for general practitioners. It was published in 2001, and it showed that during the 1990s the compliance costs were very high. They came from the community services card\u2014the high-user card, in particular. I am pleased to say that under the primary health organisations we are getting rid of the community services card and the high-user card\u2014some of the high compliance costs that our doctors have had to face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4a7585d6c9e4896a72300ddc7bdf673\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report from Feilding, received this morning, of an increase of 20 percent in the primary health organisation\u2019s charges, showing that for a 73-year-old who previously paid $25 a visit it now costs $30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221951537c99be4e4b9d20e15db75eb023\u0022\u003EMinister of Health\u2014Accountability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e2cc7c0e9b4d47a47b2c0713b3bee3\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does she have any major concerns relating to her portfolio; if so, what is she doing to address these concerns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00221b894a8af93842228e8c18ef235126b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b894a8af93842228e8c18ef235126b6\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E There are always concerns in the health portfolio, ranging from workforce issues to operations and everything in-between. This Government has made health a priority, increasing funding to almost $10 billion a year\u2014up from $6.3 billion in 1999. We have also been proactive in trying to get ahead of problems before they get worse. People from the health sector frequently tell me that they appreciate the consistent and foresighted approach that this Government has taken towards funding and providing health care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241c7e1fbe3443e483cc1427385b764f\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: What concerns does she have regarding increasing demands on the health budget arising from the Government\u2019s immigration policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238a77929cd984d8b95e67f46879843fa\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: New migrants do bring costs with them in terms of health care, but they also bring benefits. So one cannot look only at the cost of their health care, one must look at the benefits they bring with them in terms of economic development and resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5eff58f5804732849ce453eef72023\u0022\u003EMike Ward\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister support measures to reduce obesity in children, such as removing soft-drink vending machines from schools, and bringing in a \u201Cfat tax\u201D, in light of the evidence that New Zealand children are amongst the fattest in the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb5ab4482d34df3ab1c165bc30ddb60\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, I will not support a \u201Cfat tax\u201D. I have seen no evidence that imposing a tax on sugar and fat will make children thinner. I would support, and do support, health-promoting schools that teach children and parents about the sorts of things children ought to eat. But I do not think legislation and taxation, as the first measures in terms of attacking obesity, are the right way to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc9e8593f6c048a28559a68bdae04e24\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that the No. 1 concern relating to her portfolio is a lack of qualified staff, when in the last 5 days a critical shortage of nurses has been reported in hospitals ranging from Wellington to Timaru, and when a shortage of general practitioners is hitting towns as small as T\u016Brangi and cities as big as Christchurch; if it is not the No. 1 concern, where does it rank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf003134cbe42a7927658c1b121186b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with the member that workforce issues are very important issues, particularly in the areas of primary health care, rural health delivery, and so on. I am pleased to tell the member, however, that I have just received the most recent survey of nurses returning to the workforce, and up to the end of 2003\u2014last year\u20142,807 registered nurses and midwives had returned to the workforce during that period. Why had they returned? Because of the availability now of childcare, because of return-to-nursing programmes, and because of changes in their circumstances. I think that is very encouraging. But we will always struggle, as they do internationally, with our health workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223027af2a14284a6383665c53ed102d45\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Canterbury District Health Board member and Christchurch general surgeon, Mr Phil Bagshaw, that the Minister\u2019s flagship district health boards are dysfunctional and undemocratic; if not, does she no longer have regard for Mr Bagshaw\u2019s sentiments, now that she is the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6cc0d79abbf46c7a7fbfbfb49970f9e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bagshaw is a very good surgeon, and I have a lot of respect for him. I do not happen to agree with his comments about district health boards, but, then, I suspect that the member would not have agreed with his comments in 2000 that the 1993 health reforms were a complete failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9b51a46a727428db85bbcb97131229e\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is she satisfied that the concentration on setting up public health organisations nationwide with, and I quote, \u201Ca greater emphasis on population health, health promotion, and preventive care\u201D has not diverted resources away from, for example, cancer patients, who require more specialised care; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c57ab1a8689e4a6ea405ac056df7ee5a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am confident that we have not diverted funding away from areas such as cancer, because all the money going into primary health care and the implementation of the primary health care strategy is new money. It is not existing money; it is new money that was voted by this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df7c2454c28e478898ca974dbb893be7\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the front page of today\u2019s Press with the heading \u201CPlea to scrap health boards\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206edecba52384f7ab890cfecddda5714\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that front-page article in the Press. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaa77f47786040c7a49d3a112a5c9edb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Press article of 25 August, where Mr Bagshaw stated that the 1990 health reforms were a complete failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c59a5203ce048bfb78a94942ba7d444\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that article in the Press. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfe34090137942edad0503a7445f1b1b\u0022\u003EUnemployment Benefit\u2014Statistics\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94ef5ecc5344ca5b81936a114b8eafa\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What recent reports has he received on the number of New Zealanders needing the support of an unemployment benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022da2401024fa94174aede2c71126916b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da2401024fa94174aede2c71126916b2\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E This month the number of people receiving an unemployment benefit is over 31,000 fewer than last year. That is a 31 percent drop, which is equivalent to the population of Gisborne moving off the unemployment benefit in the last 12 months. With 211,000 jobs created since 1999 and an unemployment rate of 4 percent, which is the second-lowest rate of unemployment in the OECD, we are enjoying the best unemployment rate in 20 years. That is backed by an overall reduction of almost 100,000, since 1999, in the number of working - age New Zealanders who need any type of benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc55ff01fd34429e8aa1d0629f4f20b0\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen that compare New Zealand\u2019s unemployment and working - age welfare numbers to those of Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b04f9ee91b554544bf8f0e921e84567a\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I have received reports that state that the latest unemployment results record New Zealand\u2019s unemployment rate at 4 percent, which is the second-lowest in the OECD, compared to Australia\u2019s 5 percent, or 11th in the OECD. The Dominion Post reported that 8.8 percent of all Australians receive a benefit, compared to only 5.8 percent of New Zealanders on an equivalent benefit. Once again, New Zealand\u2019s situation has been misrepresented by Dr Brash, who has scant regard for facts, so desperate is he to go to Australia to bag his own country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a89522d64fbc4d8cacaf536d944be108\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned by the fact that although the number of people on the unemployment benefit has halved since 1999, the number of those on the dole for more than 3 years has actually gone from 10,789 to 15,672, an increase of 45 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac6cbb7159e348c297d2ee25707af7cc\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member will notice from the last household labour force survey that there is now a continued trend downwards in longer-term unemployed. We are certainly turning our attention to that environment, to making sure those people get a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022320fa2696a82450d9961cb985f0b9fd1\u0022\u003ETransport Congestion, Auckland\u2014Resource Management Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf53287c67624c46869e09d844692b73\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he view the Resource Management Act 1991 as an obstacle to overcoming Auckland\u2019s transport problems; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002248440caf28d7457ea1c168a714b35f39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248440caf28d7457ea1c168a714b35f39\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Hardly. Transport expenditure in Auckland is now running at an all-time record\u2014almost twice the level that existed when this Government first came to office. However, this Government leaves no stone unturned, which is why the Resource Management Act is currently under further review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e444f07e3c9d4e16b70ec9f13bf65c2d\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: Which statement is true\u2014the Minister\u2019s answer that he has just given, or Transit New Zealand\u2019s report to the select committee last year that stated that it takes longer to get a resource consent to build a new road than it does to actually build the new road?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae9c6d38654f444995013f5e83edc583\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think that if one is going to quote Transit, the best example of a Transit statement recently is one that was put into every edition of the New Zealand Herald, which stated: \u201CTransit investing half a billion in Auckland highways. More to come.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223124aa11f9bd4b3995b4ed09eedaedbf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister can now address the particular question he was asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f61e30582bc41d5ae87233f8ad61bd1\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: If that is what Transit said last year, then this year it has managed to find itself an answer under this very good Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226efefa28445d4ba09350d22e05d18423\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give any breakdown of where the expenditure increases in Auckland have occurred?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022592a6ca17917433696cb1fcd4f2871ef\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: They have occurred everywhere. Since the change of Government, State highway construction is up by about 90 percent per annum, passenger transport expenditure is up by about 400 percent per annum, and alternatives to roading are up by over 15,000 percent per annum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c9f955ff8fb4ef9b8d19242bb0d38c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does he think that the Government\u2019s policy of introducing legal aid for objectors to new roads has helped Auckland\u2019s traffic congestion problem, noting that even Environment Court judges have been critical of objectors who have been paid for by the taxpayer under his Government\u2019s policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb6b91eb77e6459881507d166faa154f\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: And accordingly the Environment Court is entitled to, and from time to time seeks, expenses from those bodies, but the point of the matter is that nobody can deny that this Government is getting Auckland moving again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e30c89521bd049b7a765b843bed79bc1\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting those answers, is the Minister aware that the Automobile Association has recently produced a brochure called Jump Starting Auckland, which clearly outlines the obstacles, the issues, and a procedure for addressing Auckland\u2019s transport woes, and if he is aware of that brochure and that philosophy does he not think a good starting point would be to discuss the situation in meaningful detail with the Automobile Association, which represents one million motorists?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb335df754914b3ab3c4cb81ddc6508a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Automobile Association has a comprehensive report coming out tomorrow. I have seen it, but it is embargoed and I do not think it is proper for me to break that embargo. I enjoy a good relationship with the Automobile Association and intend to continue it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fefe612a710a4c89a5a5823216c1cf73\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Resource Management Act be an obstacle to overcoming Auckland\u2019s transport problems when the Britomart transport centre, the Albany to Puhoi realignment, the Mount Roskill extension, the upper harbour project, and the North Shore busway have all recently received consents despite a couple of them having quite severe environmental effects and public opposition, and should not the rights of communities and the environment in fact be strengthened under the Resource Management Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b419aff4cdb43949973301d684d5345\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is absolutely correct except that her list was not comprehensive. There is more besides. The point of the matter is that the National Party and the ACT party think that planning law is bad. Planning law is how we get proper integrated sustainable transport infrastructure in this country, and we need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a0e1f39bf24a918d3bad697b5b0602\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Transit has waited 8 years for permission to build a new road, how much longer will Aucklanders have to wait for new roads, now that under the Land Transport Management Act Transit has to consult Auckland iwi about things like Auckland taniwha?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cf0fc839d304636ae91f0fbd327866e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing new in that. The point is that Auckland roading expenditure is now running at almost twice what it was when we took office. This Government has got the Queen City moving further and faster than the Tories did in the dear old days of the 1990s when nothing happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252d797e97ab345199342aac63846725e\u0022\u003EEmployment Law\u2014Australia and New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ddef8d2ff84370a33173399044a30b\u0022\u003EHELEN DUNCAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What reports has he received which compare employment conditions under the respective employment laws of Australia and New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e84c7a96ec58420983887e158d27af06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e84c7a96ec58420983887e158d27af06\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a report quoting the World Bank that states that New Zealand\u2019s labour laws are more flexible than Australia\u2019s, with a rating of 32 out of 100 compared with Australia\u2019s rating of 36 out of 100, where a lower score denotes more flexibility. I have also seen a report that Australia has had a statutory minimum of 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave for the last 30 years. For some strange reason the National Party leader, Don Brash, forgot to mention those facts in a media release in Australia recently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022569f3e2a36b54ad4ba286b344d1e8575\u0022\u003EHelen Duncan\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on comparisons between Australia and New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f67295c5394d2daeea695268fe88d5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as they relate to the Minister\u2019s portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a95874da2fd4e519b5717aed6c94cef\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report of the National Party leader bad-mouthing New Zealand in Australian media, and indicating that New Zealand could become an unviable Pacific State. Most New Zealanders will be outraged\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca14a24f0a364d93b0704c760735b119\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The way that the Minister started off was out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022464a9606b97943258a0b6e550e274923\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: What action will the Minister take in respect of the OECD 2002-03 report, which states that \u201CNew Zealand is unusual in not having a minimum probation period for new employees.\u201D, and that this inevitably restricts the employability of the \u201Cyoung, less-skilled, and, especially, single parents, who have one of the lowest employment rates in the OECD.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec5048fce944048b82d9e68cf7db4e0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, probation options are available under the Employment Relations Act, as that member will know, and that issue is under consideration. But I do think it is rather odd, given that Australia has had 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave for 30 years, and given that that is the reason why some people are going to Australia, that the National Party would decide to repeal that provision and go back to 3 weeks\u2019 annual leave. It is very, very odd. I think that when National Party people are overseas they should be a little bit more positive about this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6cf728988744bf3bf490579e1285271\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister referring to the report that was published in Australia recently that bemoans the fact that New Zealanders are paid far less than Australians, yet goes on to complain about New Zealanders now being paid for working on statutory holidays, and now getting 4 weeks\u2019 holiday a year; if he is, can he give us an idea how those two positions can be reconciled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec1d693b85024b9c886d420597b2b759\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite difficult, because the reports I have seen from the leader of the National Party are quite contradictory, and often make no sense at all. I think the important point about this is that that leader now decides that no one in New Zealand should have 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230f02527a3e420a84a55c26b227b62d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae30a6a3b44744f6b09e3f75c1025950\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E \u2014although he had 4 weeks\u2019 leave when he was the Governor of the Reserve Bank. There is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262655e08a97e4f3091e790e086769b0f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have warned the Minister. He knew I was on my feet. He will now stand and withdraw and apologise for being rude to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224e74638dde141dcaea8086c3e6f6a9b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ecc82eaaf4044318454cd42ead53107\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table page 15 of the OECD 2002-03 report, which states that single parents in New Zealand have one of the lowest employment rates in the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228927e5c251db4ccf84982da96d223e23\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328c79448b7142d0b3d1c6a2374a72e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I notice that you checked the Minister for speaking when you were on your feet, but the other sin he committed was that he launched a personal attack upon the leader of the National Party in quite an irrelevant way, pointing out that he himself had enjoyed 4 weeks\u2019 annual holiday as Governor of the Reserve Bank. That was not part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224487dcad5d7b457d87623c678f7e3cd1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That, of course, is not a point of order. I sometimes think that were I not to allow people to raise points of order, we might have a very much better question time. I do not think most people know what a point of order is. There are about four or five members who have that ability. I know that the leader of New Zealand First knew precisely what he was doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022280f23d3d86f413183c40d9f26953d0c\u0022\u003EHuman Rights Review Tribunal\u2014Compensation to Prisoner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022828ef29d5ed74e4ba9636afd87155315\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay Of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What action does the Government intend to take as a result of the awarding of $1,200 to an inmate whose feelings were hurt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002213bb7ada84fa479da979c62f95e2621f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213bb7ada84fa479da979c62f95e2621f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Department of Corrections is seeking advice from Crown Law on appealing the decision of the Human Rights Review Tribunal on this case to the High Court. Like most New Zealanders, it seems to me that the injury to the feelings of the inmate pales into insignificance when compared with the trauma and suffering of the family of the victim whom he murdered in 1988.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239191c7f7708456b8d9406c27317a04c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Since the general manager of the prison service said on radio yesterday that the legal opinion from the Crown Law Office suggested it was not worth spending any more taxpayers\u2019 money to appeal this decision, will the Government appeal the decision in order to avoid setting a precedent for paying inmates such amounts of money for compensation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae0f4cfa97d4b02a8bf8b1c362c1c79\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: There is more than simply the sum of money involved\u2014it is $1,200\u2014there is the principle involved. The Department of Corrections will be getting advice from Crown Law on the prospect of its success and then a decision will be made, on the basis of the facts available to the department, about an appeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aea50d405111423f85326ff39d694bd3\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: Should there be any right on the part of inmates to take a case against the State if actions taken against them as inmates are inconsistent with the law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ad736db63243099658a6895542db77\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there will be circumstances where the ability to take such a case may be justified. However, I think that most New Zealanders would feel that the victims of the offender should have first claim over any compensation granted to inmates. I have asked the Ministry of Justice to examine whether offenders who are awarded compensation should, in fact, be required to pay damages out of that award to any victims they have harmed and never compensated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ba18898fc64aba803ae23006567d21\u0022\u003EMarc Alexander\u003C/span\u003E: Why have the privacy concerns of a convicted murderer superseded those of a concerned member of the public, when the reason the Department of Corrections withheld some of the information in the letter was to try to protect the person who wrote it from an extremely violent criminal, who now roams free in our community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e19c67d673b44a5cb8fa26019e137544\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I have had a look at the case, and I have also had a look at the letter that was written by the Privacy Commissioner. In fact, the Privacy Commissioner decided not to take this case to the Human Rights Review Tribunal, because she did not believe that was warranted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f718eef1a82e4987ad53a2f4638dc652\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister made sure that the members of the Human Rights Review Tribunal have the required knowledge and experience of\u2014and I quote from the Act\u2019s criteria\u2014\u201Ccultural issues and the needs and aspirations (including life experiences) of different communities of interest and population groups in New Zealand society.\u201D; if the Minister did satisfy himself of that question, exactly which population group does he think should compensate a vile rapist and murderer for his hurt feelings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022141854ad17a94a828bfedd7d7ae7c2cd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The member, as is often the case, has quoted selectively from the provision of the Act, which requires certain qualifications on the part of a person appointed to the Human Rights Review Tribunal. There is a range of different issues\u2014one of them, of course, being knowledge of the law. I notice that the member was critical of those particular individuals. It is somewhat ironic that one of the individuals on the tribunal was appointed by the very member who raised this question in the House: Mr Ryall, when he was formerly the Minister of Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279d1c12165f7448ea831b5c5d8868018\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Since the Government now agrees with the Opposition about the inappropriateness of this payment, what confidence can the public have that the Government will progress this issue, in light of the reports in the decision of the tribunal that the Government\u2019s officials neither contested the issue nor argued the reason that they had withheld the information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022051837d4dbbc4fd08be875e65c51dfc2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I have the report of the tribunal in my hand, which contradicts what the member has said\u2014as usual. This issue was contested by the Crown. It was defended by the Crown, and the Crown lost. It may be that the Crown could have presented its case better than it did, and that will be one of the aspects that will be looked at in relation to any appeal. I would, of course, welcome it if the National Party in Opposition supported this Government in doing something about the law\u2014something that the previous National Government failed to do in the 9 years that it had in office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002204ed8007-24ee-45fb-ab8e-8573da79b238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c6f2b2179b849d0bb145a3e453cd188\u0022\u003EMarc Alexander\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the family members of the victim of murderer and rapist Andrew Ronald McMillan received not 1c in reparation when the victim was brutally raped and sadistically murdered, yet he is awarded $1,200 to heal his wounded feelings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ef1e813704404d907b594c1c6b1c79\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: That is precisely why I answered the primary question in the way that I did. I think it is quite unjust that a person who has caused so much suffering and trauma to others, and who has never been required to pay a penny in compensation, should now get compensation for some other matter that is very clearly much more minor than his offence. I note the fact that no reparation payment was ordered when the man was originally convicted. That is often the case when a person is given a life sentence, because he or she has no ability to make any such payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002214ae3533324a4c71be81ec5d04fff15d\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002260037dff5df949a784e6fc06ebbaea60\u0022\u003EFisheries and Other Sea-related Legislation Committee\u2014Foreshore and Seabed Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e51130deeff4f63b149b704f5d89877\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Fisheries and Other Sea-related Legislation Committee: How many written submissions has the committee received on the Foreshore and Seabed Bill, and how many of these has he requested be heard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce86c82eef7d4bf0a3bf8bd287602547\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce86c82eef7d4bf0a3bf8bd287602547\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Chairperson of the Fisheries and Other Sea-related Legislation Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Three thousand, nine hundred and thirty-seven; and none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a327a83406554849809f9ed679b39fbd\u0022\u003EHon Ken Shirley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the restriction on the number of submissions being heard a result of the time constraint imposed by the report-back date, and is he prepared to apply for an extension of time from the Business Committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edea558f358f486f90b4ddaa2ed4e8e0\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: A subcommittee was formed to suggest who should be heard. The full committee subsequently endorsed this and the timetable was set for hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd0a05b198fd4722a54e93b9212bb28b\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member guarantee that all submissions representing substantial interests will receive equal time, rather than iwi groups having more time than other groups representing substantial interests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d05575a52043ebad6410aa8463ebec\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: I have no greater role than any other member of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e640a6f142b49899b861bad3be6fcef\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002298b60c3772be4007b87ea4c3e5b1b829\u0022\u003EElectricity\u2014State of Industry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u00228634cab181ad41fdbcbaa51b963ebbad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228634cab181ad41fdbcbaa51b963ebbad\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from Peter Brown seeking an urgent debate on the \u201Cstate of our electricity industry\u201D. This is clearly not a particular case of recent occurrence, and cannot give grounds for a debate. In his letter, the member refers to a recent report by an electricity industry consultant but has provided no authenticating material in respect of it. In these circumstances, the application for a debate is rejected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ddf5cdf187df48bd95f2e9bd562f3ce8\u0022\u003EPower Station\u2014Huntly\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022 data-id=\u0022281c579e90ae4b9c874b0cda3955bfdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022014651a1-9604-485f-a1d1-4f752fff8c59\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022281c579e90ae4b9c874b0cda3955bfdb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have also received a letter from the Hon Ken Shirley seeking to debate under Standing Order 373 the Government\u2019s commitment to underwriting part of the power station to be built at Huntly. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility. However, I do not consider that the announcement requires to be considered by way of an urgent debate. There will be many parliamentary opportunities to consider a long-term commitment of that nature\u2014not least the 3-hour imprest supply debate today. This application is also declined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eac28907adcd4787ae6999c9cc3e2064\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2004/05) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002291f56d8103a446ff8449be686f630117\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00226bac77b0a55e45df86bfc9ffaf649608\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bac77b0a55e45df86bfc9ffaf649608\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2004/05) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c09b6245297482a84a4b43c518c8970\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2004/05 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a912cf2c19444558930dbef35385240f\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002232216515b590406798889ae5ea4b76e6\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002210420f02695c453c90b0ba3bc7f5048c\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00223258c5a40f8a413186ec889851720654\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223258c5a40f8a413186ec889851720654\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2004/05 Estimates) Bill be now read a third time and the Imprest Supply (Second for 2004/05) Bill be now read a second time. These two questions involve the final stage of the Budget debate\u2014the third reading\u2014and the second reading of the Imprest Supply Bill, which is normally moved in concurrence with it at this stage to provide for expenditure through to the end of the financial year, including expenditure in advance of appropriation, and to incur expenses and liabilities in advance of appropriation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThere is a spectre haunting the Leader of the Opposition, and that spectre is the fact that the New Zealand economy is going very well and is in good heart. When one has committed one\u2019s professional life to being \u201CDr Misery Guts\u201D, it is difficult indeed to respond to almost untrammelled, consistent economic success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df29c5a9704a4d7da8ba197563592aff\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member should refer to other members by their correct names. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8dfb40ab84347cc88e329e72b08aaf1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Ah! Oh, right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228de08ab9c944cf9a341d16a35ecbf2b\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows he must call members by their correct names, and not by a name that is derogatory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2d49fb172fe4332b732514236cb490a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Brash\u2014the appropriately named Dr Brash in this case\u2014has spent his life being miserable about the economy and now is faced with an economy that is out-performing not merely his expectations but\u2014I have to be fair\u2014even the Government\u2019s expectations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe problems we face are those created by growth and success, not the problems of misery, failure, and social division, such as those of the 1990s. Firstly, we have had strong growth, making us one of the key successful economies in the OECD over the last 4 years. When could we have said that for 4 years in a row in some decades in New Zealand\u2019s economic history? Not since the early 1970s. Secondly, we have low unemployment. Our unemployment rate is now the second lowest in the OECD, though, to be fair, the National Party caucus is not counted in the figures. Thirdly, there is moderate inflation, which is securely within the 2 to 3 percent band. Fourthly, we have growing household incomes, particularly because of the growing levels of employment. For the first time in our history, more than 2 million New Zealanders are employed, and they are looking forward to the implementation of the Working for Families package, which will deliver massive gains to 60 percent of all New Zealand families with children. But, of course, those at the top end will miss out, and that will cause terrible problems for those members opposite. Indeed, 60 percent of that money will go on families who are in employment\u2014not that Dr Lockwood Smith would know anything about families; whether they are in employment or out of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe social report released only a couple of days ago shows that New Zealand is in the top half of the OECD for the majority of the key social indicators that count. What is important to people is the life they are enjoying, not some abstract measure of per capita gross domestic product (GDP). We are catching up in terms of per capita GDP. We are catching up on the rest of the world, particularly on the rest of the countries in the OECD. For the first time in a very, very long time our economy, on a per capita basis, is growing faster than most other developed economies. We are on a roll. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EBut then we had Dr Brash appear and, for about the third time, he has unburdened himself of his strange views in an Australian financial magazine. He seems to scurry across to Australia to write his little bits and pieces, hoping they do not get noticed back home in New Zealand. Previously\u2014and I will say this quite carefully\u2014he appeared to be the Rip Van Winkle of New Zealand politics. Having spent four decades asleep, he woke up to find that the natives were getting restless, and he had some trouble understanding the changes that had occurred in New Zealand society in the interim. But now he has become the Cassandra-like figure, going around, as one of the cartoonists said, with billboards plastered with \u201CThe End is Nigh\u201D on back and front. The end must be nigh, according to him, because life is getting better under a centre-left Government and that simply cannot be true, according to Dr Brash\u2014it may be what is happening, but it cannot be allowed to happen. We have seen all the newspaper headlines and comments: \u201CBumbling Brash loses plot\u201D, said the Otago Daily Times, as it tracked his movements around the country. Fran O\u2019Sullivan\u2014no great friend of the left, let it be said\u2014saw \u201Cno road map for the future\u201D in Dr Brash\u2019s comments. According to John Armstrong, Don Brash\u2019s comments \u201Cnot only bordered on the ridiculous, it was silly politics to boot\u201D. And, of course, we had the Dominion Post stating that what Dr Brash said was \u201Csimply wrong\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo what do we see? First of all, according to Dr Brash, we are becoming a Pacific State country in terms of our economy, despite the fact that our GDP per capita is 10 to 30 times that of the Pacific States. But Dr Brash is just about ready to put on his lava lava and throw in the future, as far as the New Zealand economy is concerned. Secondly, he says that Australia is doing better than New Zealand. Well, let us have some facts. Fact: between 2000 and 2004, Australia\u2019s economy grew 3.1 percent per annum on average; ours grew 3.5 percent on average. Fact: Australia\u2019s inflation rate averaged 3.6 percent; ours averaged 2.5 percent. Fact: Australia\u2019s unemployment rate averaged 6.3 percent; ours averaged 5.1 percent. We are going to hell in a handcart, according to Dr Brash, but it is certainly a Rolls-Royce handcart as far as most New Zealanders are concerned. With regard to GDP per capita, Dr Brash says we are going backwards. Well, here are some good figures. He used to like figures in the old days, when he took some notice of them. In 1990, when the National Government took office, Australia\u2019s GDP per capita was 39 percent higher than ours. By 2000 Australia\u2019s GDP per capita was 47 percent higher than ours. We went backwards from 1990 to 2000 in terms of per capita GDP. By 2003 Australia was 30 percent ahead of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225008d9bb19ab487eab5dde086b33847f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205ee7ab61caa4cab97d5d7fbf81df22e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u201COh, come on\u201D\u2014yes! Of course, he said \u201C30 percent\u201D and he was right, but what he did not say was that it was 47 percent when we became the Government. He left all of that out because it does not matter. Although Australia is seen as being the most successful developed economy in recent years, we beat it on every major economic figure in that period of time. Yet again, we are carrying on doing that, and yet again we are beating them in the individual pursuit event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOf course, in 2000 Dr Brash was not worried about Australia and New Zealand growing differentially. Then, when he was the Governor of the Reserve Bank and supposed to do something about economic growth, he said that whether the growth rate was differential was neither good nor bad; it just meant New Zealand was different in some respects. Why does he see Australia as the model? Is it because of its higher tax rates? Is it because of its higher public liability insurance? Is it because of more regulated labour markets? Is it because Australians have longer holidays and shorter working years? Is it because Australians have higher welfare dependency? Is it because Australia has more active business-support funding? Is it because it has a higher level of economic regulation and economic nationalism than New Zealand has? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat is it that Don Brash wants to do? He wants to take a holiday\u2014yours! He has suggested dropping all benefits to the able-bodied. He has promoted raising the age of eligibility for New Zealand superannuation. On many occasions, he has lamented the absence of a capital gains tax and has supported removing local control of resource planning issues. None of that will address New Zealand\u2019s comparative performance. He says: \u201CWoe is us! We\u2019re behind Australia, so what we have to do is adopt policies that are even more different from Australia\u2019s than they are now.\u201D Now that is pretty illogical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI invite Dr Brash, having returned from his unsuccessful provincial tour of the last year or so, to stand up to address Parliament, to stop attacking his country when he is overseas, and to tell us what a National Government would do, apart from the failed policies of the early 1990s that were designed to impoverish New Zealanders and drive social wedges between us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab9c91e9c5774b5ba7fd48845846484c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab9c91e9c5774b5ba7fd48845846484c\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Members will not be surprised to learn that I disagree with almost everything the Minister said, and I rise to oppose the resolution. It is very clear that there are now two quite different visions for New Zealand, and one is of smugness and complacency, which sees everything in the garden as rosy. The reality is that when this Government came to office in late 1999, the economy was growing at almost 5 percent per annum. Why? Basically it was because the 1980s Labour Government\u2014and let me give credit to that Government, which was very different from the present Labour Government\u2014and the National Government of the 1990s carried out reforms that put this economy in a great place to grow. And in addition, we saw a steady decline in the New Zealand exchange rate, starting in 1997, which gave a huge boost to New Zealand export industries, and to agriculture in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EGrowth has also been quite good since then; let us be frank about that, and I acknowledge that. But why? Let us look at it again. It is because of the reforms of the 1980s and 1990s, and the declining exchange rate through 4 years, and then an uncertain world environment, which produced a flow of immigrants from poorer countries into New Zealand over the last couple of years. There was a big flow in the years 2002 and 2003. It is very clear that over the last 10 years, growth has been caused by factors that have nothing to do with the present Government\u2019s policies at all\u2014nothing at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003ELet me quote from the last OECD report on New Zealand. It states: \u201CUnderpinning this improved performance over the last decade has been the programme of reforms that began almost 20 years ago. These reforms have boosted the economy\u2019s sustainable growth rate and its resilience to recent adverse shocks. The slide in relative living standards vis-\u00E0-vis the OECD average seems to have been arrested, but\u201D\u2014and this is a very important qualification\u2014\u201Ca further acceleration, necessary if New Zealand is to move back into the top half of the OECD, as the Government is intent on doing, is still not in sight.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThat is the reality. The good growth we have seen has nothing to do with the present Government\u2019s policies. The Minister seemed to imply that more regulation, more holidays, and more taxation would somehow increase the growth rate. That is what he seemed to be saying. I do not know of any objective observer who would say that more regulation, more taxation, and more holidays would improve our growth rate\u2014not any. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b44e338de149471d9579eefa95a5f6fa\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I want to warn members that this constant barrage is not allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc09622ca954ec2b549edfbdf7728dd\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH\u003C/span\u003E: I make the point that the OECD report went on to say that many of the Government\u2019s policies\u2014its policy on company tax rates, its policy on infrastructure, its policy on the Resource Management Act, its policy of picking winners, its policy on the labour market, and its policy on welfare\u2014were damaging our growth prospects. That was in the OECD report. The reality is that the current gap between our income and that of Australia\u2014about $200 per week\u2014shows no sign of reducing, and if the Government projections on both sides of the Tasman are correct, the gap will continue to get wider. Yesterday I was in mid-Canterbury and a pharmacist complained to me that she could not\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a77d9e6f483d4947b308129459bc5579\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There has been a fair amount of interjection on both sides. That is just too much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c482c71d112f40eba29b8fa6627e1007\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. As is your right, you stood from the chair previously to intervene about the constant stream of interjections. Since then, both of the Government whips have interjected almost continuously\u2014in fact, I think they got worse after your intervention. You have now risen again and intervened, after waiting for a good period to see if the interjections would drop off\u2014and they did not. I think the House would like reassurance that if your intervention is ignored again, particularly by the Government whips, who are responsible for order amongst the Government benches, you will take decisive action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c55225fe27403c8853778a906767f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member makes a fair point, but I point out that during the 10 minutes that I spoke I was subject to constant interjections from Mr Ryall, Dr Nick Smith, Dr Lockwood Smith, Mr Simon Power, and a number of others who could not control themselves for the entire 10-minute period\u2014to the point where I was tempted to find the pharmaceutical cabinet to try to help them during the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28d86909b7d4c26b49349f8e9dd01ed\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There has been a barrage of interjections from both sides, as I indicated, and I will certainly take action. I have warned members on both sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204732b83fac943d39629b85864b0354d\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that if the projections of the two treasuries are even approximately accurate, the gap between our living standards and those of Australia will continue to get wider. Over the last 5 years we have seen approximately 25,000 Kiwis net leave this country each year, most of them going to Australia. If the gap keeps getting wider, we will have a situation whereby nurses, doctors, teachers, plumbers, builders, you name it, will continue to leave. In that sense, New Zealand is like other Pacific Islands, where the reality is that their most skilled people continue to leave. That is the situation we face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThe other vision for New Zealand is that of the National Party. Our vision is of a country that is growing, so that we can reduce the gap between our living standards and those of Australia. It is a vision whereby every child leaves school able to read, write, and do basic arithmetic. It is a vision whereby people get off welfare and do not stay on it year after year, decade after decade. It is a vision whereby everybody is treated equally under the law, whether they be M\u0101ori, Pacific Islander, Asian, or of European descent. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9dd0727ab324a9889244362c47e385b\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That has been ruled out previously. I say to the Government whip that it will not be tolerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a73686cc84b471cb65087e3912e2817\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has basically given up on what it repeatedly claimed was its highest objective\u2014namely, getting New Zealand back into the top half of the OECD. On present projections, that will not happen in the next two decades, and we certainly will not overtake Australia any time soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThe Budget projected that growth over the next decade will be, on average, about 1 percent slower than over the last decade. The Budget simply fails to deal with the real issues facing this country. The Government claimed in the Budget that it wanted to encourage people off welfare and into work. What does the Budget do? It raises the effective marginal tax rates for people trying to get off welfare and into a job, to between 80 and 90 percent. Let us take the case of a one-income family earning $38,000 per year. It has two young children and is living in an average suburb in one of New Zealand\u2019s major cities. The impact of the Budget is that by 2007 that family will take home about $43,000. In other words, it will take home more money than it earns. Contrast that with its neighbours earning $60,000. What will they take home? They will take home about $45,000, which is a difference of just over $2,000\u2014about 50 bucks per week\u2014for earning an extra $22,000 per year. That is supposed to create an incentive for people to get off a benefit and into employment. It is supposed to create an incentive for people to get more skilled. Who would get more skilled with a 90 percent effective marginal tax rate? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThis Budget might be excused for failing to fix the growth problem if it actually did something useful to get people off welfare and into work. The sad reality is that an 80 to 90 percent effective marginal tax rate simply will not achieve that. The Government\u2019s vision is limited and mediocre. The Government rests on the laurels of the 1980s and 1990s, and, frankly, if this is the best we can achieve, we simply will not deliver the kind of New Zealand we want for our children and grandchildren.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022 data-id=\u0022c988f5b5370b45dba4a7bfbfd04eacd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c988f5b5370b45dba4a7bfbfd04eacd4\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. In the course of the speech made by the Leader of the Opposition, my colleague Mr English asked for an indication from you that you would be firm in dealing with matters from the whips\u2019 desk opposite, if there was continued interjection. Towards the end of Dr Brash\u2019s speech there was continued interjection, and I invite you to make good your threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8d851027ce4f7da7bc171420d6d1a5\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is quite wrong\u2014I did not make a threat. What I said was that the level of interjection, which was a constant barrage from both sides, would be controlled. That is exactly what it was. The member will be quite clear that there was a continual barrage from his side, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00221abbff6201544f20bc393a0881c5c6d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221abbff6201544f20bc393a0881c5c6d9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E In any viable democracy there should always be an alternative Government-in-waiting; in any viable democracy there should always be an alternative Prime Minister - in-waiting. The public today, which do not support this Government, will be extremely disappointed by what they have just heard, or rather about what they did not hear. It was a very confused speech, lauding Australia\u2019s economic performance, whilst berating his own country, and never admitting why that is so\u2014why Australia has done so much better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIf members look at Hansard for the May Budget debate they will see a prediction from New Zealand First that Don Brash would go out and make this comparison between Australia and this country, but that he would not admit why Australia had done so much better, since 1984, than the New Zealand. It is not an alternative Government, or Prime Minister, that goes around the country stirring up apathy. It is not an alternative to go around the country striving to put Mogadon out of business. It is not an alternative to go around the country totally underwhelming people. I can remember the great campaigns that National once ran with great leaders who had the ability to come into this House and stay here, and win in this House. They had the ability to take the Opposition\u2019s argument and place it before the nation. All we have had here is a beat-up, month after month, and the polls tell us what will happen now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt is true for Dr Brash to say that the economy grew by almost 5 percent in 1999. That is true\u2014the economy did grow by almost 5 percent in 1999, despite the Asian crisis of 1997-1998, but whose Budget took it there? It was not National\u2019s Budget. Whose Budget took it there? The Budget that acknowledged that US69c was far too high for an export nation and drove the dollar down. That, and no other reason, was why we had the success we have had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENational has no economic policy\u2014that is as clear as daylight today\u2014though I am delighted that Dr Brash has finally found a vision. Members will remember that when he got the job he was asked what he understood being a New Zealander was. He said that he did not know. National has no policy, and it is not right that \u201CNew Zealand Second\u201D rushes around the country stealing the New Zealand First Party\u2019s policies. That is what they have done\u2014they have tried to steal our policies. I have even heard him today talking about low-quality immigration. I beg his pardon. This is someone who believes that we should have 10 million people here. He cannot explain why. He cannot say why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a313cbfcf7047b4bbf0a9ffd593f07c\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: From Singapore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d40e9087274643c1a679dbbbaf37defa\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, I suppose \u201CMy wife was born in Singapore.\u201D I mean, what on earth does the National Party think it is doing, as far as the right wing of politics in this country is concerned, in providing that as an answer, as an alternative Prime Minister, and an alternative Government? That is the worst performance I have ever heard or seen in this country, or in any other country. That embarrasses me because all around New Zealand I know of hundreds of thousands of people who do not like this Government, who do not like its social policy, who do not like how weird the Government is, who do not like how kinky it is, and who do not like all the sleaze and the sordidness of its policies. They do not like it and they are praying and hoping that somewhere else there is an alternative, but they are not getting an answer, and no amount of hype on behalf of the print media ownership in this country will change that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E New Zealand First is opposed to what is going on in this country in respect of our asset wealth and our asset sales. We are told that there is a boom in New Zealand at the moment, except that 80 percent of New Zealanders cannot feel, taste, or smell it. Sure we have a boom all right, it is a boom of consumption, but look at the export figures and at productivity\u2014it is simply not there. All the fundamentals by which great economies are measured are not to be found in the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f349039e-f016-4db0-a8d0-c374551be708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f9425c20c96498a89383db8abf0f6c2\u0022\u003ECraig McNair\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s it like compared with Ireland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d37a95d56494bf487856565d40541cd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it reminds me of the great boom of the Kirk Labour Government from 1972 to 1975. Things were going through the roof; the sky was the limit, except that it was all about to bust because it was all based on consumption. What is the biggest investment today in New Zealand in terms of investment and capitalisation? It is housing. The last people I understood to live on housing were Hansel and Gretel. What we have here today is a Labour Party bringing in people in their tens of thousands on 110 points, which is down from 195 points, which means they do not need to have a job or any prospect of a job. Why would we bring in these tens of thousands of people who will not be placed in our economy if we were not hell-bent on providing consumption to back up our economic performance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287bb6c2cf6934033b64a18c89c2142b2\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: And we\u2019re still short of workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223806206d1b6a4b0db3fa7e9a8f3d3313\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, we are still short of workers because the trouble is that we have 300,000 people who cannot speak English at all. One in two of those people is not employed in the economy in a positive sense at all. Not so long ago\u2014less than 5 years ago, in fact\u2014I recall the same Don Brash, as Governor of the Reserve Bank, telling New Zealanders to \u201Ctighten their belts\u201D. Do members remember that? He told them to tighten their belts and not to request pay increases because he said that we had \u201Clooming stagflation\u201D. That was said by the good doctor, put up by the National Party as some sort of economic genius to run New Zealand\u2019s economy. That is what he said 5 years ago. He also told people not to buy houses, that it was a waste of investment. He said people should rent instead. Well, let him try that today in Auckland, Tauranga, Nelson, or Christchurch. However, that is what he advocated, and every time the economy showed any signs of getting some life he would choke it because he was obsessed with inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EToday the same man says that Australian workers earn 30 percent more than New Zealand workers. Is that so? When will I see some economic analysis from some of these journalists over here as to the ridiculous nature of his comments about Australians? When will we see some honesty about what Australia did differently from us in 1984? In 1984 we had an economic revolution. Who supported it? Don Brash did. How do I know that? I know that because in 1987 when being mooted for the Kaimai by-election, Don Brash said: \u201COh, no, I can\u2019t stand for National. I support Rogernomics. I support Roger Douglas.\u201D Here we are today with an alternative\u2014a National Opposition that still believes that Douglas was right; that still believes that Ruth Richardson, of all people, was right; and that still believes that somehow if only they were given power they would discover the magic bullet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHowever, this party behind me is riven with dissension. Mr Key says that he is not for selling State assets. Don Brash is. Mr Key is not certain whether we should keep our savings fund, but Don Brash is certain that we should get rid of it. What goes on here? How important is economics in any country? In any democracy that I know, economics is the fundamental main part of everyday politics, except that the National Party put its man in at No. 10. He is hardly lining up behind a bunch of political geniuses on the front bench. The current line-up would be the most bereft of talent I have ever seen in my time in politics, and, boy, knowing the Labour Party, that is saying something! But, even so, National\u2019s finance spokesman cannot get past No. 10. Why on earth would that be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E Maybe it is because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3dcdeceae0640309b8776b3e64c2ebe\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: He may be there soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022847cbd1d9e22498faf822d7b8d1abac2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I wish \u201CDon Key\u201D all the best. The reality is that this is no job to learn on the job. People in this country hire people because they have experience. They know what happened yesterday. They understand the pitfalls. However, today we have in this Parliament a so-called Opposition party led by someone who cannot find the parliamentary toilets and who does not understand, for example, what a primary health organisation might be. These are fundamental things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe have a National Party that should be able to beat Labour hands down, except it has no economic policy, its social policy is a steal from New Zealand First policy, it steals New Zealand First speeches and regurgitates them out there without understanding them, and, worst of all, it just wants power for power\u2019s sake. That is no reason to be in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u00223258b0ade05f4295b43f75a230b9f5f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223258b0ade05f4295b43f75a230b9f5f5\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The 2004 Budget on which we are voting today is a house of cards. It has some very nice features that we would like to support, but a strong wind is blowing and the cards are flapping. Without an unprecedented effort to strengthen the foundations, we will be without shelter in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI said those words in mid-June when we first debated the Budget, and since then the wind has only become stronger. In the last week the price of crude oil has passed US$46 a barrel. That is more than twice the Ministry of Economic Development prediction 10 months ago of US$20 a barrel in 2004. It is more than twice the assumptions about price on which the whole Budget forecast and planning was based, and it is a substantial increase even since the first reading of this bill. Some analysts give the price a fifty-fifty chance of reaching US$50 within weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EBy and large the media do not understand what is going on, so most New Zealanders do not either. The Christchurch Press stated that the price of oil is driven by the situation in the Middle-East. Actually, it is not. The war in Iraq is driven by the shortage of oil, and not the other way round. Serious supply disruptions that knocked out a major supplier would be likely to take the price to US$100 or more, according to Deutsche Bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENo, recent price rises are about demand. There has been an increase in demand in virtually every country\u2014including a 40 percent year-on-year increase in China, the second largest oil importer\u2014and that rising demand is against a background of gradual depletion. US oil fields have passed their peak and have declined since 1970. New Zealand oil fields passed their peak around 1986, and have declined steeply since then. World oil supply is expected to peak in the next decade, if it has not already done so, and only hindsight will tell us exactly when. Our concern was greatly heightened just this afternoon when Dr Cullen told us that he has never heard of the concept of peak oil, and that he does not accept we are dealing with the depletion of a finite resource.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EBut more important even than the date of peak oil is the date on which demand will rise above the rate at which remaining fields can supply. That date is very close. Oil prices will fluctuate a bit with markets and weather, but there can be no downward trend from there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ERather than use this debate to admire the fine features of the house of cards and to criticise the ones that disappoint us, I want to examine the strength of that wind, and the steps we need to take right away to reinforce the cards so we have some shelter left after the storm. The best estimate of the strength of the wind is that current oil production is 81 million barrels a day but total productive capacity is only 82.5 million barrels a day. As fields pass their peak, the rate at which oil will flow will also reduce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ELet me make it really clear to Dr Cullen: we cannot pump oil out any faster than 82.5 million barrels a day, and 1.5 million barrels a day is a very small margin to cope with supply disruptions let alone more growth in demand\u2014but both are likely. The single most important thing we must do to secure our economic future is to reduce our dependence on oil. If any members in this House do not believe that, then I invite them to show where the stuff will come from at anything like the prices we have had in the past, to meet the record rates of demand that show no signs of easing. Canadian shale will not do it. It takes so much energy to get the oil out that the more oil prices rise, the more the cost of shale oil will rise ahead of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe National Bank stated that the extra $300 million to $400 million that oil prices are costing us will knock 0.4 percent off our GDP this year. The Reserve Bank is worried about inflationary effects, as the price of oil affects the price of everything else. However, that is minor compared with what is coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe point is that when we pass a Budget we commit money to building for the future, and we need to think about what we are building. New motorways are planned based on predictions of traffic growth. How much of that growth will occur if fuel prices double? The Freightways Group has imposed a fuel surcharge and is looking at whether it will increase it. Petrol demand is very inelastic when prices first rise because people have few other options, but over time behaviour does adjust. Our transport future will depend much more on low-energy options like rail and public transport systems, and if we do not build them now while oil is still cheap it will be much harder to build them later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EYesterday I was at the Britomart transport centre for the launching of the new Connex commuter rail services. The upgrade in Auckland commuter rail since I lived there and used it 12 years ago is stunning, but it still has a long way to go to meet Auckland\u2019s needs. It needs a link to the airport, which means building new track, and it needs a tunnel extending the line west of Britomart and linking the southern and western lines. These will be energy intensive to build and low energy to run. We have a brief window to build now while oil is cheap, and we will reap the benefits when it is expensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EAirlines have imposed fuel surcharges, too, and are considering raising them. Airlines are perhaps the most vulnerable of all forms of transport, as price cutting has raised demand for air travel and boosted growth. Is the Minister of Tourism planning to spend the $60 million we are voting him to promote New Zealand as a destination, in the knowledge that air travel will be less affordable in the future? Are we investing to encourage longer-stay tourism that is less energy intensive? Is the Minister of Tourism thinking at all about the long-term price of oil?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EIt is, of course, a fundamental of the Government to expand trade of all kinds. How much is the fuel price factored into that? As the rest of the world reels from yet higher oil prices, will countries continue to buy dairy products in the way they do now? Worse, if we allow basic industries to collapse by removing tariffs and allowing competition from sweatshops and child labour, will we ever get those industries back when the economics change and fuel-intensive imports of things we can quite well make ourselves do not seem like such a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENothing is as important to social wellbeing as housing. Has the Minister of Housing thought about how to heat the houses the State is building? When will we have state-of-the-art solar design for at least all new State houses? When will the building code be upgraded to require more energy efficiency to keep energy bills down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe have a fisheries bill before the House at present, which provides for highly migratory species caught outside New Zealand\u2019s economic zone. Deep-sea distant fishing is the most energy intensive food production system in the world, even worse than grain-fed beef production. There is unlikely to be a market for fish caught hundreds and thousands of miles from shore at the prices that oil depletion will dictate in a few years time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI go on to the forestry industry. Of all our productive sectors, this one has the best chance to prosper because it is capable of producing all its own processing fuel. Waste wood, and eventually purpose-grown wood, are particularly promising energy sources for New Zealand in a post-oil world, but they must be planned for. Where is the planning in the wood-processing strategy to use the wood waste coming on stream now, and to ensure we grow enough wood for the future? I do not see it; what I see is an assumption that the forestry industry can continue to demand more and more electricity, gas, and diesel, rather than become self-sufficient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EFarming must change, too. Fertilisers and pesticides are largely oil-based. Our competitive advantage will be in turning to organic production methods that do not require them. We have the science to do it but the Minister is lukewarm at best, and there has been little budget applied to developing the science further or to helping people change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe do have options. New Zealand can survive high oil prices better than most countries, but successive Governments have chosen to ignore all the signs of oil depletion, and the opportunities to build a more secure future. I was encouraged a few weeks ago by Michael Cullen\u2019s acknowledgment that oil will never be cheap again, and that Treasury projections should be reviewed. Today he tells us that the review of Treasury projections has not yet begun. This afternoon we learnt that the situation is much worse than we thought: this Government does not believe we have a problem, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWhat we are looking for is a radical review of the fundamentals of economic management, now that the short-term underpinning of our rapid economic growth has been pulled away. We do not have to continue blindly until we crash and burn. The Greens are dedicated to developing the sustainable options that will see us through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u00225cad67c1600a428b83a368ae40773c43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cad67c1600a428b83a368ae40773c43\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I wish Jeanette Fitzsimons all the best for her recovery from what seems to be a flu that has certainly gone around the House. For those at home who are listening to this debate on the radio, I remind them that they are listening to the end of the debate on the Government\u2019s Budget. It was an excellent Budget, and that has been borne out by the fact that there has been so little criticism of it over the last little while. The Government members delivered that Budget, and we have waited on this side of the House to get engaged in the cut and thrust of ideas as they came up, particularly from the National Party\u2014the pretenders to the throne. We waited to hear what National members would put on the table, how they would spend the money, and what they saw as the priorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EWe have waited in vain. We have not had one single policy idea from \u201CMoga Don\u201D or any other National Party members throughout this debate. The best they could do over the last little while was to say that they would reshuffle their members so that National looks like a Government-in-waiting. What did they do? They have promoted the organisation of the National Party to slot No. 3 in the National line-up. New Zealanders need to know that National believes that its own organisation\u2014keeping its members in line\u2014is the third most important issue for the National Party. So Simon Power, my colleague from the middle of the North Island, is now \u201Csenior whip No. 3\u201D. When he goes home and people ask him what he is doing to advance the country, he will say: \u201CI am organising the National Party; I am whipping them.\u201D That is what he will say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ENational members are saying that that reorganisation means they are ready for Government. Their first term MP, Mr Key on the second bench, is their finance spokesperson. The previous leader, Bill English, who is on the front bench now, cannot be in the same room with Mr Maurice Williamson. If Mr Williamson walks in, Mr English walks out. If Mr English walks back into the room, Mr Williamson does not walk out\u2014he has too much cheek\u2014so Mr English has to go back out again. Ms Rich is now agonising over whether to stay with this National Party. She is a woman of integrity. She is a woman who believes in fairness and decency, and she knows that work-for-the-dole, time-limited benefits, forced immunisation, fines for not taking one\u2019s kids to work if one is a beneficiary\u2014and that is all\u2014is the National Party plan of the 1990s. It did not work then. It made people mean. It made them the worst kinds of New Zealanders. New Zealanders did not like that behaviour. Ms Rich knows that and she is thinking of leaving. Mr Sowry has already gone. Dr Lynda Scott is a first-term MP; one would think she would have her sap rising, would one not? She has been here for only one term\u2014for only a little while. If National thought it was winning and would take over the running of the country, would not a first-term MP, keen on health issues, want to stay, want to be here, and want to be part of all that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EMr Brash leads all this. He leads it by not being in the House. As Mike Moore used to say: \u201CIsn\u2019t it strange, we\u2019ve struggled so hard to get into Parliament, and we never turn up here.\u201D Mr Brash is on his provincial tour around the country, and when he has time he goes to Australia and bags this country. He says that we are just another Pacific Island State. We are not. We are a First World country. We have First World infrastructure. We have First World incomes. We have First World industry. We have First World attitudes, education, and a health system, one after the other. We are not a Pacific Island State\u2014\u201Cjust a Pacific Island State\u201D, as he likes to say. But then Mr Brash likes to go on all the time with this kind of insinuation that things are wrong. He gets a few facts wrong all the time. He comes into the Chamber and says all the time that the world is about to end. He is always telling us the problem. At \u014Crewa he did that, and he got it wrong. He told us about crime and how National would build $500 million worth of new prisons. When people asked, \u201CWhat for?\u201D, he said that maybe we would just double the number of beds in the cells. He got it wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EHe tells us about welfare and says that we are so much worse off here than Australia. Australia has more people on welfare than we do. Its unemployment level is higher than the unemployment level here. He gets it wrong. On something like the economy, time and time again he gets it wrong. He tells us about these policies that were 20 years\u2019 bad luck and led to no real gain. And then by some sort of magic, when the Labour Party arrives, suddenly things start to pick up. We do OK. We get more growth, we get better wages\u2014we get all these kinds of things. Is that supposed to be luck? Even Dr Brash knows that, 5 years\u2019 later, it is not luck. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThis is a good Government leading a country that is doing very well. People are sick and tired of the hollow insinuation, no facts, doom-laden politics when there is no answer. I say to Dr Brash: If the country is in such a mess, where are the problems? If the country is in such a mess, where are the answers to these so-called problems? If the country is in such a mess why do 80 percent of New Zealanders report themselves as feeling pretty happy with the way things are? Why do they feel like that? Well, I tell Dr Brash that the fact is that New Zealanders think this country of theirs is on a roll. After years of being told that they were going to get no gain without pain, New Zealanders are finally seeing their lives steadily, year after year, month after month, week after week, getting better. That is what they have found over the last little while. Their economy is growing. Their regions are growing. Their wages are growing. They are better educated, more healthy, and better housed. They live in a country that the rest of the world\u2014but not Dr Brash\u2014thinks is a hot country to come to. Tourists are pouring into this country. They want to be part of a country that has a lifestyle like this, that has food like we have, that has wine like we have. They are saying: \u201CLet me go and be part of that country.\u201D Young people, 20 to 29-years-old do not go out of the country as they used to. They see a life for themselves here. They see jobs here. They see opportunities here. They want to stay. They love going to New Zealand films. They love Peter Jackson. They love people like Sarah Ulmer winning gold medals. They love New Zealand music. They love switching on the radio and saying that 20 percent of what they listen to has been produced by a New Zealand band or artist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThis is a fantastic country to live in. Those people have a real pride, a real sense of identity, and they love being part of a special, unique group of people capable of doing anything. They like living in a country where they get a fair go. They like living in a country where they have opportunities to reach their potential. They love the lifestyle here. They love sharing in the dividend from all the hard work that has gone on. Working for Families is a fantastic policy. Sixty percent of New Zealanders will do better if they have a family under this Working for Families package. They will get about $100 extra in their pocket from this Government. Even the National Party has had to say: \u201CWe won\u2019t take it off them, we will let them keep it.\u201D This is a fantastic policy. No wonder the polls have begun to change. They have begun to change because people are sick of the negativity of the National Party. They are sick of insinuation, sick of no facts, and sick of no policy. They are starting to turn on to a party that has had solid achievement over 5 years. We have a leader who has fought through for 5 years and who has led this nation in a way that makes us proud to be Kiwis and proud to be led by someone who has a brain in her head, ideas to say, and a vision for the future. This party, on this side, has the people and the policies, but most of all, it has the passion to lead this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EWe want New Zealand to succeed. We want New Zealanders to have a better life. We want their families to get better, their communities to get better, and their nation to be one of the leading nations in the world. Unlike Dr Brash, we do not call ourselves just anything. We call ourselves very special; we call ourselves unique. We call ourselves a mix of people who can stand up and be proud of ourselves, because we have a special bond with each other and we have a special bond with the land that we live on. We understand that we live in the luckiest country in the world. Labour is saying to Dr Brash that he can reshuffle his team, but it is time to stand for something, and not against everything. Labour is clear on where it stands. We are on the side of Kiwis who want the best for their families, their communities, and their nation. That is why over the next year, as we lead into the election period, we will put the vision forward for this country, against the negativity of the useless National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022aebc75699b584a3584fe9401c66ff1c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aebc75699b584a3584fe9401c66ff1c2\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Let us strip away the rhetoric of this Government and say that yes, we do live in a great country, and that we, as New Zealanders, are a great people. That is why we have to get rid of this Labour Government and the Prime Minister, Helen Clark. That is why we need Don Brash to become the Prime Minister and the ACT party to be in Government. Parekura Horomia pipes up. My message to him from his electorate is that he has gone. I will talk about what New Zealanders are actually concerned about. We know that, because we had the Norm Withers referendum. I tell Mr Horomia that New Zealanders want to feel safe at home, safe in the streets, and safe at their place of work. We had a referendum that had overwhelming support from New Zealanders for the Government to get tough on crime and to protect New Zealanders. What do we hear from this Government? We learn that under this Government Andrew Ronald MacMillan, a terrible, brutal rapist and murderer, will get a $1,200 payout because of his hurt feelings. Parekura Horomia and Jill Pettis would not agree with that. No New Zealander would agree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf217cf240e4bc7a390c3a52eb47ce5\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e33af86a09d441f8fd02658155c8758\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Keith Locke does, but then I question whether he is a New Zealander. No New Zealander would agree with that. We heard from this Government that it may get the Department of Corrections to see whether it can appeal that decision. What a weak response that was from the Government to the people of New Zealand, who are fed up to their back teeth with crime and lawlessness and disorder in this country. It is all right for Ministers to have diplomatic protections and for Parekura Horomia to sweep around in his flash car, but what about his constituents? What about the people in south Auckland who cannot say that their children are safe on their way to school? What has this Government done about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f245d9f4fe4c43b2c6ea7e699f1287\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: What about your constituents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd67d55dbcd45d4aa227fc8619abeb6\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Parekura Horomia spikes up a bit now. He should do some door-knocking in his electorate, because he is gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWhile I am talking about Parekura Horomia, do members remember Helen Clark\u2019s promise to close the gaps? Everyone was going to come together. M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 were going to sit around the table, and live happily ever after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d3d6de27594832b6438e0d62808dcc\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What happened to M\u0101ori unemployment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a717e26ab964fa087337d9b5177b7aa\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good question. What did happen to that policy of closing the gaps? I would like to hear that from the Labour Government. Labour will not let Parekura Horomia rise to his feet to speak. It has sat him down, because he is too tired to stand. It will not let him stand up to give a speech, so he lies back in his chair and yells out. Has Parekura Horomia got eyes and ears? Can he not hear and see what is happening in M\u0101oridom? What did the Labour Party do? For once, it has united M\u0101ori. It has united M\u0101ori against Labour\u2014against the Government of New Zealand\u2014and for the first time in our history we have a race-based party in our Parliament, thanks to Helen Clark. She has not brought the races together, but has split them wide apart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EIn relation to America and Australia, we are distant friends. Our Prime Minister runs around toadying up to the \u201Caxis of evil\u201D, Iran, and helping it to organise itself to get its A-bomb up and running.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663514260fd44d27a59e0d776568fd0b\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t talk rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312eac94a9d24fb298b5ee0518842b02\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I saw it in the paper. All around the world we saw pictures of Phil Goff holding hands with Keith Locke\u2019s friend Yasser Arafat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef4d5635e334233abef4f38d68ed3e7\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Who does Mr Hide hold hands with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eafdf2efe224813a54a45dbace3d859\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell the Minister of Health that if I got as close as that to Yasser Arafat I would not be holding his hand. That is what has been happening. If I got as close as that to Yasser Arafat, he would be in serious trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d84f3fb25d534912be66e67d44d79085\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: But you would hold the hand of his wife?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133f8822b45b4fa29302599201ba32a3\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell the Minister that I would not hold his hand or that of his wife. Our Government is taking New Zealand on a path away from our traditional allies, is cuddling up to the likes of Iran and Yasser Arafat, and is to send a letter of apology, together with a cheque for $1,200, to a murderer and rapist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EI ask Annette King where we are on transport. We are committed to building roads in Auckland, but under the Land Transport Management Act we have to consult iwi on just about each and every road. Parekura Horomia and his tribal mates can turn up to any hearing, and hold it to ransom. Why is that? One reason is that there could be a taniwha in Kohim\u0101rama. [Interruption] I can see that there is a taniwha in Parekura Horomia\u2019s seat. He should get up to make a speech like a man, and not just sit there and heckle away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EThen we come to the economy. I remember a time when the Labour Party used to want people to lift their sights and to achieve, to create, and to produce. This is what happens under Michael Cullen\u2019s Budget. [Interruption] If Annette King pipes down for 2 seconds, she may learn what is in the Budget that she is about to vote for. In fact, if she listens to and understands this, she may shift her vote. Let us take the example of a family with two children in Auckland that earns $35,000 a year. That family is doing it hard in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ddfaa46150348538204b51e42088c41\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: And what would ACT do for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022631a87bec4284df09b1dfa64c4175a68\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell her what Labour has done for it. That family has a housing cost of $300 a week, and gets $788 in its hand to live on. Annette King should imagine this situation. The family has to work harder, so the wife has to go to work. It then earns an extra $20,000 a year, but that is hard. Does Annette King know how much that family gets to keep, under this Budget? She does not know, so I will ask Parekura Horomia. If that family on $35,000 a year earns an extra $20,000, how much does it get to keep? Parekura Horomia cannot do the sums. Well, I can tell him it is $2,548 a year. The family earns an extra $400 a week by working harder, and gets to keep only $50 of that. That is what Annette King, Parekura Horomia, and Michael Cullen are voting for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247542724831a44fe830180366198b5d7\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s ACT going to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccea31ff2b1a4eb29dd9ba1f2a14d62e\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Help is on the way\u2014that is what I say to Parekura Horomia and Annette King. Help is on the way, because we are going to come along to the people who support those members\u2014the Labour members\u2014and we will give them a tax break so they can have more money in their pockets and will not have to go cap in hand to the miserable, mean, nasty Labour Government and ask whether they can have some of their own money back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWhen Helen Clark came to office in 1999 she started out as a traditional Labour Prime Minister\u2014robbing Peter to pay Paul. Labour robbed 200,000 people who were earning over $60,000. It took money off them and said: \u201CTo hell with you. To hell with success. To hell with achievement. We can spend this money where we can get some votes.\u201D Do members know what Labour has done in this Budget? I know this will be news to Parekura Horomia. It is actually robbing Peter to pay Peter. Now people who earn $100,000 and have six kids can get a handout, because they are poor and needy. Under this Government a person on $100,000 with six kids is poor and needy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWhat is the solution? The solution is not to have to go and get money from Michael Cullen because he says it is OK to do so. It is not to go off to Mr Copeland, who is propping up the godless Labour Party. Oh, no, that is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4f94af252b844b08da161b7b615f9d5\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a bit rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022151bd88ffbcb4408a95149cfe665b86a\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe, but it is a good line. I can say this: if people vote for the ACT party they will be able to keep more of their money, and to spend it on their own God as they choose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd9a37c1040b4be8897dc22c645eed61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd9a37c1040b4be8897dc22c645eed61\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I did not interrupt during the member\u2019s speech, but when he was making references to the Palestinian leader, Deborah Coddington called out: \u201CI\u2019d shoot him.\u201D I do not think that is appropriate language to use in this House, and I ask that she be asked to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298fb26936a7642a2a0b57eace228221d\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261918b7012024a71815691e217e1cc9f\u0022\u003EMadam DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The matter should have been raised at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u002291321948e02c436388909ba137cd5926\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291321948e02c436388909ba137cd5926\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I wait with interest to find out how the ACT party would help the family on $100,000 with six kids. When Rodney Hide decides what he will do to help that family, I ask him to let me and the rest of the House know. But I will not hold my breath, because I do not think there is actually anything coming the other way. In the 2002 Budget, which was delivered immediately ahead of the nation going into election mode, the word \u201Cfamily\u201D was not mentioned once. In the 2003 Budget, on the other hand, it featured strongly, and in the 2004 Budget the words \u201Cfamily\u201D and \u201Cfamily policy\u201D have taken centre stage. Why has the change occurred? Simply stated, it is because at the 2002 election the people of New Zealand spoke clearly of the need to refocus policy on the family, by electing United Future, with its strong focus on family values and family building, to Parliament. United Future therefore welcomes the more than $1.1 billion worth of new initiatives that this appropriation bill will contribute to the support of New Zealand families, and especially to the support of working families in the low and middle income brackets. It is a great first step. It is the right thing to do, and it will benefit hundreds of thousands of families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ELet us not forget, however, that family concerns need to remain at the top of the Government\u2019s agenda as it moves forward. Our social statistics are there for all to see, and have recently been described by the Minister of Finance, Dr Cullen, as intractable\u2014an analysis, incidentally, that I disagree with, although I believe it will take us at least a generation to restore family and community life in New Zealand to the position they occupied 30 years ago. Many of our statistics remain bleak. Some 320,000 of our children continue to receive child support from the Inland Revenue Department, which collects liable-parent contributions from 212,000 people, mainly men. Behind those statistics lie the growing phenomena of fatherless and sole parent families\u2014mainly women. New Zealand now has the second-highest level of sole parent families amongst the OECD nations. Some 50 percent of all M\u0101ori, and a lower but still high percentage of other children, are now growing up without a father in the home. The marriage rate has fallen, the number of divorces has increased, and we have the second-highest rate of both abortion and teenage pregnancy in the OECD. Behind those bare statistics there is a great deal of individual pain, disappointment, stress, and even psychological breakdown. The financial cost is massive. It is now estimated to be about $5 billion each year, or roughly equal to the total tax paid by companies large and small annually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIn those circumstances, we must do more than just bring ambulances to the bottom of the cliff. We need to make a yet stronger commitment to having a fence at the top of the cliff, and I believe there is a great deal more that the Government could do in that regard. The Families Commission opened for business in July, with a wonderful line-up of commissioners and a commitment to make a difference for New Zealand families. The commission has begun its work, and, guided by its research, I hope that Governments of whatever hue they may be will look to do a lot more in the area of parent education, marriage preparation, and relationship-building skills. The many charities and other community groups in this country have developed a variety of extremely good programmes that can assist literally anyone who is a parent\u2014be that person married, in a de facto relationship, a solo parent, or whatever the person\u2019s situation may be\u2014to improve his or her parenting skills, in the interests of both the children and the common good of our society. Simply stated, we need every New Zealand parent to be the best parent he or she can be. United Future will therefore continue to advocate for the provision of vouchers to subsidise those courses, thus encouraging all New Zealanders to upskill in the area of adult relationships and parenting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIn connection with that, I was interested when I was in Australia a few weeks ago to see that the Australian Government has taken a positive lead in that area. It has established 65 mainly church-based centres throughout the country that are now offering Australian families real, practical, hands-on skill upgrading in the areas of relationship building and relationship enrichment. I was very interested to note the response to that of the Labor Party in Australia. Mark Latham said straight away that it was great, but it was not enough. I want to contrast that with the situation here, because at the moment we are debating comparisons between Australian and New Zealand a great deal. I would say that in this area Australia has taken a step forward, and that its step is one that we should emulate and follow. Similar things to those introduced in Australia have also been done in the United States of America with very, very good and tangible results. They demonstrate quite clearly that if people have, for example, marriage preparation courses before they get married, the rate of divorce drops significantly. That is a great thing, because ideally every child should have a mum and a dad at home for his or her upbringing, development, character formation, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe also\u2014unlike Rodney Hide, I suspect\u2014actually have a solution to the problem of the gap that still remains in the area of the support for the family, notwithstanding the initiatives the Government has taken in its Working for Families package. When that package was announced, John Key very quickly went out and did some sums. He came back and reported to the press and to this House that he had calculated that a one-income, two-parent family living in the south or west of Auckland or in Wellington City and earning $38,000 a year would end up in somewhat the same situation as a family earning $60,000 a year, after the family support measures were taken into account. The family on $60,000 a year\u2014that is, a family earning $22,000 a year more than a family on $38,000\u2014would, at the end of the day, be better off only to the tune of $2,376. The response of Steve Maharey and Michael Cullen was that high marginal tax rates are always a product of such systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EBut there is an answer to that problem, and that answer is income splitting for two-parent families. All the examples given by John Key\u2014and I have sent these figures to him and to Dr Cullen\u2014focused on one-parent families. From my figures it is quite obvious that if we allowed families to split their income for tax purposes, we would solve that problem. If we consider the family on $60,000 a year, which John Key put out in his figures, and enable both partners to split their income on an equal basis, we would find they would be $5,346 a year better off than the family on $38,000. In other words, the gap between the two would double, simply by allowing income splitting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIncome splitting is an idea whose time has come. The Working for Families package assisted families on low incomes, through to those on middle incomes. The middle-income area is exactly where income splitting starts to make a difference, and that goes right on through to a family that earns $120,000 a year. Although Rodney Hide defined the problem with regard to the family on $100,000 a year that has six kids, he has not come up with an answer to that problem. But I am giving this House the answer today\u2014that is, income splitting for families. That would make a difference, and a tremendous difference, to people right through from the middle-income families and on upwards. Therefore, it is an idea whose time has come. We would like to see that happen in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me not to mention some of the other ways that United Future differs from the Government in relation to the levels of taxation imposed on New Zealanders. We continue to believe that income tax brackets should be regularly adjusted for inflation. We did that in the Budget for the family support package; every time inflation goes up by 5 percent, we are to adjust the package. But the Government still refuses to do that for the income tax rate itself, and therefore continues to overtax New Zealanders\u2014and to overtax them progressively more as each year goes by. The Government refuses to index the tax brackets for inflation. We also believe that the company tax rate should be lowered from 33 percent to 30 percent. That has nothing to do with anything other than the simple reality that it would lower the cost of capital and attract more capital into New Zealand companies, which are the engine room of the economy. That would enable us to grow, and to grow quickly. As is well known, United Future also believes that local body rates should be zero-rated for GST purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThose are all affordable and just measures, and could be readily financed by, for example, a better mix of private and public provisions in the areas of health, education, and prisons. They could also be funded if the Government gave away its unduly profligate style of scattering taxpayers\u2019 money in all directions\u2014often, we are advised by the Auditor-General, without even a requirement for audited accounts to be provided. One cannot get a grant from the Lottery Grants Board without audited accounts, but one can get money handed out by this Government without audited accounts. That situation really needs to stop, and to stop soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI sum up by saying we cannot have a strong and prosperous nation without having strong and prosperous families. After all, a nation is no more than the sum total of its individual parts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec24f1d562d74319bb930cefbf4bf29c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec24f1d562d74319bb930cefbf4bf29c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade):\u003C/span\u003E National was sliding in the polls even before Don Brash committed the most basic of all political errors: going to Australia last week to speak to a business audience and bagging his own country, by saying to that business audience that New Zealand was no better than any little Pacific Island State and was moving in the same direction as those States. If the Leader of the Opposition had an ounce of credibility he could have done real damage to his own country and to others\u2019 willingness to invest in it. If there is one thing that New Zealanders as a nation cannot stand, it is a politician who bad-mouths his country overseas. This is not the first time that Don Brash has done that. In March of this year Don Brash was in Australia, telling the defence establishment that our country was not pulling its weight. This week I have come back from Afghanistan, where I saw more than 100 New Zealand soldiers working in the provincial reconstruction team in Bamian. I heard from other countries, and from the local people in that area, the record of what those soldiers were doing. I was proud to be a New Zealander\u2014proud of what they were doing there; proud of what our combat forces were doing in Afghanistan\u2014and I met those soldiers, as well. But what do we have? We have Don Brash bagging his country, and saying we are not pulling our weight. We have always pulled our weight as a country, and we are proud of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EDon Brash has now been telling Australia and the world that we are an economic cot-case. An economic cot-case! In fact, this country has performed better than any other country in the OECD in recent years. The unemployment figure last week was 4 percent\u2014the lowest it has been in 20 years. Australia has performed well, but its unemployment is at 5.6 percent. So the Australians knew that Don Brash was not giving an accurate picture of New Zealand, and they discounted him accordingly. They discounted him because he could not be relied upon. They discounted him because even the Australians do not like to see a politician bag his own country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EDoes Don Brash not learn anything? Jenny Shipley and then Bill English did the same thing that he has done, and both of them were removed as party leader. I see John Key is smiling; he is already starting to count the numbers. All those Nats whom Nick Smith described as \u201Ctreacherous\u201D\u2014his own colleagues\u2014because they promised him, as the bagman for Bill English, that they would vote for Bill English and then they voted for Don Brash, are now wondering what they have done to themselves and their party. I make this prediction: Don Brash is plummeting in the polls\u2014not just his party, but Don Brash\u2014on the basis of the characteristics of the man and of his leadership. We will see a new leader of the National Party. It may be before the election or it may be after it, and I say to John Key that the new leader may be him, because it is hard to see anybody else sitting across in National\u2019s ranks who could do the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022152b66f442444b568e86a7af61c88e49\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What about Lindsay Tisch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022407229db679f47c2bcdc28b5ab7bcae0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Lindsay Tisch is a fine guy, but I am not sure whether he is after that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EPatently what Don Brash said about New Zealand was not correct. When he described New Zealand as a small, failing Pacific State he cast doubt upon good governance in this country. But I refer the House to Transparency International, the international body that judges countries according to their governance and their lack of corruption. Every year, in recent years, this country has been in the top three countries in the world in terms of its open, transparent, honest system. Yet still Don Brash bags our country internationally, by saying we are a failing Pacific State. It is no wonder the Australians watched in wonder as that man set out to run down his own country. It reminds us of the \u201Cgone by lunchtime\u201D comment, does it not? Don Brash said one thing to New Zealanders\u2014no, National was making a very close study of the issue, and had made no decisions about nuclear power\u2014whilst all along he was telling an American congressional team in private that the nuclear-free policy would be gone by lunchtime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EOne cannot trust the man. One cannot trust the man in terms of his analysis of New Zealand and Australia in that speech. Don Brash said that this country had not done as well as Australia, and he blamed it on the Holidays Act. We will get 4 weeks\u2019 holiday in about a year\u2019s time if Labour is re-elected\u2014but not if National is elected, because Don Brash has already promised working people that he will steal that from them. He said we were doing worse than Australia economically, because in a year\u2019s time we are to get 4 weeks\u2019 holidays. For God\u2019s sake! Australia has had 4 weeks\u2019 holiday for 30 years! Why are working conditions more attractive in Australia than in New Zealand? It is because New Zealand had dismal years of a former Reserve Bank Governor who was tight-fisted, and years of an ideologically driven National Government that would not give New Zealanders the conditions we were capable of earning for ourselves. Under this Government we have had economic growth, social progress, and a record number of people in apprenticeships and education. This country is going forward, and it knows it is going forward. That is why National is down in the polls. New Zealand First is sitting above the threshold, ACT has disappeared, and the other parties will do as they will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI say it is not good enough for Don Brash to blame ordinary working New Zealanders, just because New Zealand did not perform well in the 1990s. This Budget that we are celebrating in the third reading of the appropriation bill today provides for working families in a way that National never provided for them. Don Brash, when he was the Governor of the Reserve Bank, said he believed in tax cuts for the wealthy and nothing for low and middle income earners. That is what he said when he did not have a political axe to grind. Now he has tax cuts on the secret agenda that he will not reveal to the public, because he knows the public will not elect an ideological right-wing National Party into Government. But we know the agenda is there; we know the privatisation agenda is there. That is what Don Brash believes in and will deliver to this country if he ever has the chance to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EOne thing the electorate has learned about the National Party is that it is quick to point out problems, but has no solutions. Six months ago Don Brash had novelty value: he looked new, he pointed out a problem, and he looked as though he might have some answers. Six months down the track, the electorate has seen National revealed as an empty vessel. It has no answers. National will not take the country anywhere; it has no vision. We saw the release of National\u2019s law and order policy\u2014what a wonderful policy that was! It had promises that were typical of the previous National Government, which did nothing for 9 years. That Government saw 90 percent of the country vote against National\u2019s record in a referendum in 1999, and suddenly, now that National is safe in Opposition, it is brave and tough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe have been tough. We have tougher bail laws than previously. We do not put people out on the street who, time and time again, have been shown to be unreliable and untrustworthy to be out on the street when they are facing charges. We have been tougher than we were previously in the sentencing and parole laws. The price we have paid for that is that prison numbers are tracking well above what was forecast. Four new prisons are being built, and that will not be enough. All that National can do is to say that Labour has been tough, but it will be even tougher. National says it will build seven more prisons on top of the four we are building, and will put another 4,000 people in them. It says it will have bail laws that will put thousands more people in prison, and then it wonders why it has got no lift from that policy. National has got no lift from that policy because the electorate in New Zealand recognised that National has no answers and no credibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis is a very good Budget. It will deliver strongly to working families, will take this country forward, and will create a better country economically and socially. For the first time New Zealanders are proud of where their country stands in the world and of the independent stance that we have taken. They will vote for continuity, calibre, and leadership. They will vote for the Labour Party to remain in Government next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a085c6576f47436babdad7b9ee0a5562\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a085c6576f47436babdad7b9ee0a5562\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E That was another vein-popping performance from the Minister of Justice, the Hon. Phil Goff, who is persona non grata with everybody in New Zealand. That is why he has been in Afghanistan\u2014because no one wants him. His own ministry does not want to talk to him. The ministry knows he let it down by sneaking out documents that he does not even believe in himself. When he was challenged to present them they were mysteriously destroyed. He is persona non grata with his own ministry. He is persona non grata with the good people of New Zealand, who are horrified because he supports sex with 12-year-old girls. Helen Clark said \u201CIt\u2019s got so bad, Mr Goff, go off to Afghanistan for a couple of weeks, stay out of the limelight, stay out of the way, and hopefully our poll ratings will recover, because we cannot take it any more. We cannot take the pain. Come back and give a vein-popping performance. It will help you get up in the ranks.\u201D Then one day he can have another barbecue and think about whom he will use to roll Helen Clark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWe saw a very, very interesting speech by the Hon. Michael Cullen, Minister of Finance. He came down to the House and gave a speech saying that things are just great in the rosy garden of the New Zealand economy. Things are just humming in the rosy garden of the New Zealand economy. He said that we are on a roll, we are smoking it, and we are doing even better than expected. That is very interesting. We are on such a roll that four out of five families get absolutely nothing out of this Budget. We are on such a roll that Treasury projects that the number of people on welfare will rise over the next 3 years. We are on such a roll that, despite the fact that the average family pays $3,000 more in tax since Labour came into office, families cannot have a tax cut. Those are the facts of life. We are on such a roll that we cannot even afford to help out those poor, hard-working families\u2014most of which got absolutely zilch in the Budget. That is how much of a roll we are on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E I encourage the Minister of Finance, if he is feeling in such a generous mood about the state of the New Zealand economy and the likely income that it will produce, to come back down to the House and tell the good people of New Zealand that he has a magic bullet up his sleeve called a tax cut, for some people other than just the few thousand he singled out. He does not want to do that. I challenge him to come down and present a company tax rate that is the same as Australia\u2019s, which is still above the OECD average of 29.3 percent. If we are on such a roll, we can afford to do those things for the business community and the people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EBut the reality is that we are not actually on so much of a roll. Treasury has analysed this Budget and is telling us quite clearly that the projected economic growth rate for New Zealand will slow. It will slow more than Australia\u2019s and the OECD average in the years ahead. That is because Treasury has taken some time to have a look at what the Labour Government has been doing. It has put to one side the spin doctors, of which there are so many on the ninth floor that it is a rather crowded environment, and looked at a sheet of paper to see what this Government has really produced for this economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWhat has the Government done to drive economic growth, for which it so loudly claims victory in the House this afternoon? It has raised the rate of personal taxation in New Zealand so that one in five New Zealanders now pays a top rate of taxation of 39c, not 33c; one in four secondary school teachers pays the top rate of taxation. That is what the Government has done in the area of tax. It has raised taxes so that an extra $1.5 billion will be paid this year just as a result of people moving into higher income tax brackets through fiscal drag.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8d5e0c01e774220969f072d45fe4218\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: And this is a caring Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec2979a0878f4104a8d6c9ef8ab52e88\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: This is a caring Government that is on such a roll, it has to deliver the good news to the people of New Zealand! Treasury has said: \u201CIt has failed on tax; What else has the Government done to promote growth?\u201D. It is obviously very pro-growth, because it is rolling in the clover, so to speak. Treasury has turned to the labour market. What has happened in the labour market under this Labour Government? What we have seen is the ultimate cynical bribe\u2014people can have 4 weeks\u2019 holiday\u2014we are on such a roll that we do not know what to do with ourselves\u2014but, by the way, we cannot have it until 2006. Is there not an election coming up in 12 months\u2019 time? That is right; and the Government will not tell people about the fact that when they have that extra week\u2019s holiday, they will not get pay rises for the years ahead, because employers will not be able to afford it. So they will be paying for it themselves anyway, but the Government still says people should thank it for giving them something for nothing. Hello! That is a new form of \u201CWinston Peters economics\u201D, and even Winston Peters does not believe that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThen Treasury has moved away from labour markets, because it has seen a \u201CD\u201D. Even if this Government were doing the National Certificate of Educational Achievement for the Budget in Cambridge High School it would have to fail\u2014and that would take a lot, from Cambridge High School! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ESo the Government has failed in tax and in the labour markets, and Treasury has moved to the area of compliance costs. We have seen more compliance costs heaped on small businesses and businesses around New Zealand that are failing, and struggling to keep up. Treasury has said that that is not good either, and has then looked to see what is happening in the energy sector for this Government that is on a roll with this Budget. Treasury has said, very interestingly, that the Government has to put up taxpayers\u2019 funds to support the debt obligations of a State-owned enterprise because it cannot be sure that in 10 years\u2019 time it will get enough gas. How will that help the Government and the taxpayer? It will not help them in the slightest because, when the gas runs out and the power goes out, there will not be anything there. But we need not worry, because the taxpayer will be paying for that. Why do we have to do that? Because we have a Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221772e9f5-5379-4bfe-9d9b-eaffb4c61b02\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272aacc386d4e401c88b03cda3bcfd292\u0022\u003EHon Harry Duynhoven\u003C/span\u003E: When National was in Government it privatised railways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022057403f7dda440318dd58f07b7ff4272\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, we have hit a nerve here. This is the Labour Government with energy policies that would not even stack up on Play School.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E Why are we having to put taxpayers\u2019 dollars up front? I will tell members why, in case they are wondering. The reasons are very simple. We have signed the Kyoto Protocol, so we cannot actually price carbon emission charges and, despite the fact we have a thousand years\u2019 supply of coal in the ground, we cannot be sure that we will ever be able to use it. But we should not worry. We will export it to Indonesia, China, and other parts of Asia, and they can burn it because, somehow, it does not seem to affect the environment when it is being burnt in Asia or Eastern Europe, but it does affect things when it is burnt down here. That is a very interesting strategy, a very interesting strategy indeed. Then, we could have had the largest example of hydro generation for some time coming in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f545f5dfd1148eb86c98ff0d9614411\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: How come this member gets 20 minutes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b6b1ad98d684b7f9b08de42702702b5\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: There is the translucent member from Otaki. I whipped through Otaki the other day and, frankly, I would think of standing for that electorate if I did not have the seat of Helensville. It looked entirely winnable to me\u2014very winnable indeed. I asked whether anyone had ever heard of Darren Hughes, and they answered: \u201CWho? Who? I think he is still at school, Darren Hughes. He is that quite nice young bloke, but I don\u2019t know what he knows about politics. I know he has done bits and bobs, and\u2014oh, that\u2019s right; he took Helen Clark to The Lord of the Rings\u2014best night out she\u2019s had in ages.\u201D Anyway, I transgressed from the Budget just for a moment, and now to move back to the issue of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265af8f7ba6ab47b18d26840fd9dcb3c3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That would be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b65b11d1ed748108b0e1c23cad1fa14\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014hydroelectric dams and why we are having to put taxpayers\u2019 dollars at risk\u2014it is because we do not have an energy policy consistent with the Resource Management Act. That is why we are in 60th place out of 60 in the world competitiveness index. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ETreasury looks at the list and says to itself: \u201CTax is a failure, labour market\u2019s a failure, compliance costs are a failure, energy sector\u2019s a failure, RMA\u2019s a failure, so our future projections for economic growth in this country are grim. But don\u2019t worry, because Michael Cullen is telling us that we are on a roll, and it\u2019s all really good.\u201D Then they ask Hon Dr Michael Cullen in the serene quietness of his seventh-floor office: \u201CSir, what have you done to help the economy of New Zealand?\u201D He says: \u201CEr\u2014oh, that\u2019s right, I inherited all those things from the 1980s and 1990s. I had a huge tail wind of a very low exchange rate and high commodity prices, and I just came along and did a few things to make a mess of it all.\u201D I do not have much time to talk about the Budget, which is a great shame. But I can just say that every Labour member has got up and said what a great Budget it is. Well, if it is such a great Budget, why are we having to spend $21 million worth of taxpayer dollars to promote it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a900be6300346a7a176362918ef15e5\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: Good question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022610bd98ac92f4bcb89638c0fe9ca3bb4\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is a very good question. What do I see? I see deer in the headlights and stunned mullets. There is not a whisper, not a murmur, out of members on the Labour benches. [Interruption] Oh, hello\u2014we have woken them up. But, no, there is $21 million to promote a propaganda machine. Why would anyone want to promote it? That is a bit of a vexed question. Why would anyone want to promote something when four out of five people will get nothing out of it? There will be high effective marginal tax rates. The doozy came last week, because the Government got very upset when the Dominion Post on its front page pointed out that of those working families who were getting the accommodation supplement\u2014lo and behold, 50 percent of them were not families. I wish I could have an extension of time, because it has been so much fun to point out the failures of this Budget and of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u00228cad4ae17cdf4b94832dbf33e4b3f596\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cad4ae17cdf4b94832dbf33e4b3f596\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to matters in the current Budget, notably in regard to education. The first issues I want to raise concerning the current year are those of student allowances, student loans, and the married student scheme. We are aware that there was a recent change in Government policy that allowed married students over the age of 25 to receive the student allowance. But the Budget, as from next year, links those students back to their parents\u2019 incomes, and only those who are really eligible in that regard will be able to claim the student allowance. One of the issues we face in our community at the present time is that the assistance coming through is dramatically unfair. Those parents who are already subsidising education through their taxes\u2014the education of the lucky students who can claim student allowances\u2014will now, even if their own children are only barely over the threshold, have to provide for others as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EIn 1999 the present Government came to power with a promise that the student loan scheme would be changed\u2014but the changes have been minimal. We have a situation today in 2004, when there is little but minor change in the Budget with regard to the student loan scheme. We all know that student tuition fees and student indebtedness have an impact on the courses that people are able to undertake, and affect the quality of students\u2019 learning environment, their academic performance, and the choices for life they are able to make. Most of all, the increased burden of the student loan scheme means an inability for students in time to secure a home-loan mortgage. Bank managers admit that students are disadvantaged. Those who marry find that marriage is not an option out of the scheme, and those who bear children have to take time off in order to proceed. Academic standards and performance are under threat while there is this consistent issue of the student allowance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EIn recent days we have had editorials, in the Dominion Post and in other newspapers, that bring back to the Government the fact that there is not adequate provision at present for student allowances and for student participation in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EBut the real issue I want to raise today is that of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA), and the forecasted spending for that qualification for this year. Before us in recent days we have had the example of Cambridge High School, but I will forbear to speak strongly on matters that are not yet in the public domain with regard to NCEA. This national certificate has long been an issue. It was nurtured by Dr the Hon. Lockwood Smith, carried through by the Hon. Dr Nick Smith, and embraced wholeheartedly\u2014and, I believe, without adequate care and time\u2014by the present Minister of Education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EWe have before us not just a Cambridge High School issue but an issue throughout the whole secondary school system. In respect of the education ministry\u2019s forecast for spending this year, particularly with regard to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, there are serious issues. One of the issues that has developed from Cambridge High School is misunderstanding as to how the National Certificate of Educational Achievement could be formulated. The school tried to amalgamate into one system\u2014and for very desirable reasons, although I believe that those reasons will not be seen as worthy in the long term\u2014unit standards, which were industry-developed under, and accredited by, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, and achievement standards, which were a reformulation of what we formerly knew as School Certificate, Sixth Form Certificate, and bursary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThat amalgamation, developed by the present ministry in recent years with increasing quantities of statements, has not been sound, but at Cambridge High School the issue was: just what did happen there? Can I say in passing that Cambridge High School was a school that developed from having indifferent standards in 1992 into being an outstanding school, under an outstanding principal and an outstanding board. But without an understanding of NCEA as that qualification has developed, and without an understanding of the role of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, something has been lacking according to recent comment and the more recent reports issued by various bodies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EI turn to the fact that at Avondale College, Brent Lewis\u2014who used to teach in this district\u2014talked about what this system is about. He said that schools have set up withdrawal systems for students to go away and do units, and have organised little subgroups in classes to do special credits. These activities are not unique to Cambridge High School; they are a logical consequence of the system. It is a system whereby one can earn six credits for bone carving in 2 days\u2019 work, as against six credits for one quarter of a year 11 student\u2019s total work in English for 2004. That result is an indication that this system, which has been thought to be at fault in Cambridge High School, is not just at fault there. It is a system that I, on behalf of New Zealand First, believe needs to be re-examined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E We believe in the NCEA as a system that would seem in time, with pastoral help from the Ministry of Education and the New Zealand Qualifications Authority with regard to the workload and to teachers, to be a worthy successor to what we knew as School Certificate, Sixth Form Certificate, and the bursary exam. In fact, at this time in 2004, the Cambridge High School issue seems to indicate very seriously to the Minister and his officials that issues need to be re-examined. Namely, the issue is whether NCEA, an amalgamation of achievement standards and unit standards, is a system that has real validity for the future. At present, I believe that the jury is long out on whether it has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EI understand the reasons this was done, and I want to quickly traverse the fact that the industry training organisations set up under the New Zealand Qualifications Authority did a very worthy job all through the 1990s of developing work-worthy credits for their industries. One of the issues that has developed under NCEA is that the huge body of work done by the industry training organisations all through the 1990s is now at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to say about this is, in regard to Cambridge High School or any other college\u2014and I believe that others will be found somehow wanting under the recent developments, and I will come back to that in a second with regard to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2014is that unit standards were a worthy achievement in regard to the various trades industries that had developed them. I know of schools where, in regard to agriculture, carpentry, industrial design, and hospitality, they were, and are still today, the best method for students to be able to achieve something worthwhile and creditable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EBy the way, although questions were asked about this matter all through the 1990s, the answers were not forthcoming. The forced amalgamation into an achievement standard design has not been one that is worthy. New Zealand First believes that the Minister must address this issue now. The Minister must not take into account the recent comments being made by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, which is attempting to go from not doing its job in regard to monitoring and analysing what is happening in regard to accreditation, but somehow in recent statements, including one made last Monday, it is stepping over the boundary into trying to tell schools how to teach the curriculum in the classroom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe authority\u2019s task was to analyse and be quite certain on behalf of the taxpayer and, not least, on behalf of parents and children, that the system they supported was creditable. The Cambridge High School issue has shown, not that Cambridge High School was at fault, but that the system was at fault, and the Minister needs to address the matter in the education budget urgently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00223334f83382484692ad87f2753c6d880d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223334f83382484692ad87f2753c6d880d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Is this not a debate of contrasts? On the one hand we have the gloom and doom merchants, who all day have been predicting that the end is nigh. I saw an extremely good cartoon in the Saturday New Zealand Herald; it had Don Brash walking around with a sign saying \u201CThe end is nigh.\u201D There has been a repeat of that in the House today: one would think there is nothing good going on in New Zealand, there are no good people, there are no good policies, there is no hope, and there is nothing happening, if one were to listen to the National Party and the ACT party. On the other hand there is a Government that has policies and purpose. We are here today defending our policies and telling people what we are doing for New Zealand and where we are heading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI want to contrast that with the approach of Don Brash of the Opposition. He said New Zealand is racing towards oblivion. He went to Australia, to an Australian audience, to say that. I think there is a word for that; it means something like a lack of internal fortitude. But the only person who is racing to oblivion is Don Brash himself. Let us look at the latest polls, which say it all. I will take just one\u2014the National Business Review poll. It had Labour on 42.3 percent, up five points, and National on 37.1 percent, down three points. That is an eight-point change. I think Mark Sainsbury from TVNZ got it right when he said: \u201CNational is heading in the wrong direction this month. In some ways, he has run out of steam. Don\u2019t forget, \u014Crewa gave him a fantastic platform, and we have seen the numbers gradually creeping down since then.\u201D Don Brash does not have the same platform. Unless a politician has an issue to keep him or her in the news, that politician will just drift away from the public\u2019s mind. I agree with Mark Sainsbury, because Don Brash is drifting away, all right. Some of his caucus are saying he not only has drifted away but has lost the plot\u2014completely lost the plot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EOne has to ask oneself why he went to Australia to bag New Zealand and New Zealanders. Why did he go to Australia to slag off New Zealand\u2019s efforts and New Zealand families? Why did he go to Australia to suck up to Australian business people? Why did he make a speech talking New Zealand down and, by comparison, talking Australia up? Was it disloyalty, was it desperation, or was it just plain dopey? No, I think it was probably a combination of the whole three. Don Brash asked in his speech in this House today how more holidays, more regulation, and more taxation can lead to economic growth. Well, the irony of that question is that he went to Australia and praised what was being done in Australia. He said: \u201CWe want to be more like Australia. They have more holidays, more regulation, and more taxation.\u201D I do not know where he gets his facts and figures from. There seems to be a little gap somewhere in his memory, or in the way that it works. I believe that he has lost the plot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI tell New Zealanders that he also has double standards, because he wants their holiday. He wants the extra holiday that this Government has promised to New Zealanders\u20141 week\u2019s extra holiday. Four weeks\u2019 holiday is something that Australia has had for 30 years, and that we will have after the next election, with the return of a Labour-led Government. Don Brash wants to take away that extra week. He does not want New Zealanders to have 4 weeks\u2019 holiday. He wants to take it from New Zealanders, and New Zealanders would not get 4 weeks\u2019 holiday under a Brash Government. But the irony and double standard of that is Don Brash himself had 4 weeks\u2019 holiday when he was Governor of the Reserve Bank. Is there not a word for that? Is it not a word that starts with a big \u201Ch\u201D? I mean, he can earn half a million dollars as Governor of the Reserve Bank and get 4 weeks\u2019 holiday, but he does not want to let good, hard-working New Zealanders have 4 weeks\u2019 holiday. No, he says: \u201CWhen we become the Government, they will not get that holiday. Mind you, I will have it if I can.\u201D Certainly, I am sure he will make sure that he can have 4 weeks\u2019 holiday, but not our good, hard-working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d305043ffb42a8a65ee06cd852aa67\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He only works 2 days a week in this job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef9a54aebff7442885c0d60b20e92945\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: If we add those 2 days a week, his holidays, and his pay, we find what he would deny New Zealanders. Well, I think John Armstrong got it right when he said: \u201CDon Brash\u2019s assertion that New Zealand risks becoming \u2018just another Pacific Island state\u2019 not only borders on the ridiculous, but was silly politics to boot.\u201D He put out a statement that I thought was really, really good. I love the headline: \u201CBumbling Brash loses the plot\u201D\u2014and he is absolutely right. What we really wanted today from \u201CBumbling Brash\u201D, who has lost the plot, was one policy\u2014just a little policy, just a wee policy, just a wee glimpse of a policy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221772e9f5-5379-4bfe-9d9b-eaffb4c61b02\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221acd94b5132d42159e8f25645618acec\u0022\u003EHon Harry Duynhoven\u003C/span\u003E: Just a sentence or two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232cc621017d748e7a04eb2c0dcc208e4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or just a sentence or two of a policy. What did we get? We did not get a policy; we got the \u201CBrash bumbling\u201D versus the \u201CKey confusion\u201D. We have no idea what the National Party stands for or what it would do if it got into Government, other than take away New Zealanders\u2019 holiday, or sell off the family silver, or sharpen the pencil to make cuts to the assistance that people receive. Those are the policies that the National Party has. Apart from them, it has no policy, and those members could not give us a policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI wondered what Dr Brash knew about health. This is a very important part of social policy. Well, I now realise that he knows very little about health, at all. He pretended he knew a lot. He pretended that he was very knowledgable about health. He talked about primary health organisations in his now infamous \u014Crewa speech. He said that primary health organisations were an example of race-based policy. He said that very knowledgably, as if he knew all about health and primary health organisations. But when he was approached by a reporter from New Zealand Doctor, he said he did not know what a primary health organisation was. He did not have a clue what a primary health organisation was. The editor of the New Zealand Doctor wrote that she was astounded and astonished at his ignorance. Frankly, I am not at all astonished at the ignorance of Don Brash. As per the quote from The Castle, Don Brash is not an ideas man. He is not one of our ideas men. He can certainly sharpen pencils, and he can certainly cut, slash, and burn, but he is not an ideas man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI want to tell the House what New Zealanders think about this Budget in terms of health, and I could not do better than to quote a doctor from Auckland who sent me this letter. He wrote: \u201CDear Mrs King, congratulations on your efforts to fund primary health care. Since you introduced the increased funding for 65-year-olds and over\u201D\u2014as members know, that came out in this Budget\u2014\u201Cit has been a great relief to me to be able to provide more affordable health care to my elderly patients. Clearly, you are making general practice more financially viable. You have done something very positive to reverse the dissatisfaction and low morale in primary health care.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb1d48c85af94c1181302b4082c6f5ad\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Signed by Dr Don Brash?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a252dafb3bb458580823a7bbd4393a2\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was signed by a doctor who makes people well, not one who makes people sick. I could not do better than to quote from a person who is at the front line of the health system, and who can see what the Government has done in this Budget to improve New Zealanders\u2019 health. We have now committed almost $10 billion per year to the New Zealand health system, to make it the best we can within the constraints of our economy and our resources. We have a very fine health system. Members should just ask Mr Donnelly, who is sitting there with his leg in plaster after playing a courageous game of rugby on behalf of the parliamentary team. He received from the New Zealand health system the best treatment that he could possibly get\u2014starting with the Minister of Health telling him he had a broken bone. He got the diagnosis right from the top, and he got the treatment, and it was provided for in this extremely good Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0b05706a3504a9ba13d9a8dd79117ba\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, I tell the House that the Green Party and the Progressive Party will share this 10-minute slot. For the benefit of members, I will ring the bell at 4 minutes, with 1 minute remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb92c77f82b945d1bfd2da36caad6ec2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb92c77f82b945d1bfd2da36caad6ec2\u0022\u003EROD DONALD (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I thank my colleague from the Progressives; it is good to work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EIt has often been said that a week is a long time in politics. If that is the case, then the 13 weeks since Dr Cullen delivered his Budget are a political lifetime. They also mark the end of an era\u2014the end of cheap oil. In my lifetime there have been three oil shocks: 1974, 1979, and right now. The first two were supply-side driven. As my co-leader, Jeanette Fitzsimons, has said, today\u2019s shock is a combination of supply-side problems in the Middle East, Venezuela, and Russia, and demand-side problems\u2014with China\u2019s demand, in particular, having grown 40 percent in the first 7 months of this year compared with the same period last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EHowever, the big difference between now and then is that the current shock is unlikely to be short-lived, and the need for major structural change, rather than short-term management adjustments, will be inevitable. Highly respected economists such as Lester Brown, the author of Plan B: Rescuing a Planet Under Stress and a Civilisation in Trouble, have been predicting for years that world oil production will soon peak then steadily decline as accessible reserves of that finite fuel are depleted, and that that depletion will inevitably lead to rising prices as competition increases for a shrinking resource.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EIt therefore came as a shock to me that the two Treasury economists who briefed Jeanette Fitzsimons and me about how Treasury calculates its oil price forecasts had never heard of peak oil, and did not seem to understand that, unlike canola or cotton, oil is a finite, non-renewable resource. Instead, the economists said that they based their price assumptions on historical events and on what the futures market predicts the price will be. They admitted that to futures traders \u201Clong term\u201D is a mere 2 to 5 years. That will explain why, in the one page Dr Cullen devoted to oil prices in his Budget on 27 May, he predicted that spot prices would remain at US$32 per barrel over the middle of this year before easing back to \u201Cour assumed \u2018equilibrium\u2019 level\u201D of US$19 per barrel. The briefing note did admit that since the central forecast was finalised, the spot price had increased to US$37 per barrel\u2014some 16 percent above Treasury\u2019s assumption\u2014and that that was due to supply concerns in the Middle East and low inventory levels in the USA. There was no mention of demand growth in China, let alone an acknowledgment that world demand is close to exceeding world supply, as Jeanette Fitzsimons outlined in her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EToday the world price stands at $US46 per barrel. What will Treasury\u2019s new equilibrium be? Will it be $30 per barrel? Dr Cullen\u2019s answers to questions in question time today displayed a woeful lack of understanding of the oil predicament we face. Clearly, he had not read Vernon Small\u2019s article in the Dominion Post last week. I acknowledge that he did admit, in response to my questions in the Finance and Expenditure Committee on 17 June, that petrol will never be cheap again, but today he did not seem to understand the ramifications of the end of cheap oil for our economy, our society, and our environment. There seems to be an ostrich-like mentality that somehow, some way, we will discover new reserves or new technology that will enable us to continue along the present unsustainable path. One would think that the impending demise of M\u0101ui Gas would be enough of a wake-up call, but, no, the Government\u2019s response is a \u201Cdrill and hope\u201D strategy. Yes, the Government is doing good things by issuing carbon credits to foster new wind energy projects, and, yes, it has bought back the rail network in recognition that it is vital strategic infrastructure, but it is also underwriting its own State-owned enterprise Genesis Power to squander our precious gas reserves\u2014if we find any\u2014on electricity generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to face up to the reality of peak oil, to radically rethink how we run our economy, and to use the window of opportunity we have to achieve sustainability and self-reliance. The Green Party urges the Government to take this issue seriously and to work with us to ensure that our kids have a future that is worth living. It is ironic that Dr Cullen has put in place a superannuation fund based on 50-year projections of an ageing population, when at the same time his officials have yet to wake up to the even larger threat that oil depletion poses to our immediate future. Now is the time to do a whole range of things: to install solar water heaters in every State house and Government building; to offer solar and insulation mortgages to private homeowners and landlords; to ensure that every motorway investment is reassessed in the light of permanently rising oil prices, and to allocate the money to public transport; to adopt an import substitution approach to trade, rather than increase dependence on fossil-fuelled export growth; and, in relation to tourism, to encourage more Kiwis to see New Zealand first, and to invite the increasing number of visitors to stay longer and fully appreciate not just our clean, green image but the self-reliant and sustainable country we have the capacity to become.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c29cc2f387134aa7a6a927cc24399f7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c29cc2f387134aa7a6a927cc24399f7d\u0022\u003EHon MATT ROBSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E The progressive Government stands for growth, jobs, and families, and that is what this Budget and the estimates we are discussing symbolise. This bill gives form to our progressive Government\u2019s Budget for the financial year just started. Progressive Governments invest in projects to promote economic growth and the further development of our industry sectors and our regions. Progressive Governments are the ones that deliver practical policies that provide financial incentives to working families, to working parents, to stay inside the workforce and outside the welfare system. We have introduced a four-letter word back into our society, and that is the word \u201Cplan\u201D. With economic development, educational progress, and changes in the health system, we are moving towards a more rational society. A progressive Government is a Government that acts to protect the most vulnerable and alienated members of our community, because it is those sectors that always suffer the highest toll from cannabis abuse, alcohol abuse, tobacco abuse, and other substance abuse. Our progressive Government has overseen the most impressive 5-year spurt in growth and in jobs ever recorded in this nation\u2019s history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E Our ambition is to keep on getting on with the job in the election in 13 months\u2019 time. Only one left-wing Government in the history of New Zealand has ever won three general elections, and that was the 1935-49 Savage, and then Fraser, Government. New Zealand\u2019s recent adoption of the more representative and democratic MMP system has changed the way Governments are elected. In the countdown to September 2005, non - Labour Party voters will have an awesome responsibility. That responsibility is either to see that this progress continues, or to turn it over to the reactionary, atavistic parties that exist on the opposite side of this House. Non - Labour voters will need to look carefully at all other parties, and choose the best bet to ensure the next Government remains forward-looking, remains pro-jobs and pro-growth, and will not let down the most vulnerable in our society by moving away from our strong, multi-pronged approach in the battle against substance abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EWe all know that over a period of 30 years, starting in the mid-1970s, New Zealanders\u2019 average standard of living fell dramatically compared with living standards in Australia. Under the slash-and-burn policies of the past, our living standards dropped to be around 30 percent below Australians\u2019 living standards. According to the OECD, this progressive Government, with legislation like that before this House, has turned all of that round. The economy has experienced stronger growth in the 5 years of this Government than Australia has. That is the exact opposite of what happened when National ruled New Zealand, and Don Brash was the central bank governor, when Australia motored ahead of us. According to the OECD, progressive regional industry and skills-investing programmes, and more intelligent management of monetary and fiscal policy, ensured that New Zealand\u2019s per capita growth domestic product increased between 1999 and 2003 by more than in the previous 5 calendar years of 1994 to 1998.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand needs a third-term Labour-Progressive Government next year. The Labour-Progressive Government is investing 27.7 percent of our total Budget in social welfare. That is a 30-year low because so many people are now in jobs, training, or education. Welfare spending under the last National Government was significantly higher each and every year of its rule, reaching as high as 38.6 percent of Government spending. This Sunday the Progressive Party continues with its candidate selections for the September 2004 elections, with the selection of the first four electorate candidates in Auckland. We will be campaigning for the party vote as the only party that has a 6-year proven track record inside Government of promoting growth, jobs, and skills, and of delivering policies that help communities fight off the ill-effects of substance abuse. We will be campaigning for another 3 years of the type of forward-looking policies and programmes that are liberally represented in the 2004-05 Budget before this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThose are the economic and social achievements. I have one word, though, for other colleagues in this House, including my Labour colleagues: we have to look at our moral responsibilities as well. I would ask in this period that we look again at the case of Ahmed Zaoui, overturn his unjust imprisonment, and remove that stain from the Labour-Progressive Government. Similarly, I ask that we look at withdrawing the Identity (Citizenship and Travel Documents) Bill, which is an insult to our migrant communities, and places a dangerous power in the hands of the Security Intelligence Service to recommend that the passports and travel documents of New Zealanders be withdrawn because of its opinion that we are security risks. I ask that we look carefully at our moral responsibility, as well as our economic and social progress under a very good Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022 data-id=\u0022b56095f912614e29b8de9a1cdf80e1fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b56095f912614e29b8de9a1cdf80e1fb\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E I want to start by observing that we no longer have a National Party agriculture spokesperson on the front bench. This must be the biggest betrayal of its rural and provincial heritage that this party has ever been responsible for. In fact, when I came into the House this afternoon, the only Opposition spokespeople on the front bench were Craig McNair of New Zealand First and Rod Donald of the Greens. They were the only people who were looking after the interests of the Opposition supporters out there in the countryside\u2014the traditional agricultural right-wing voting people out there in the heartland. Who did they have looking after them this afternoon? They had Craig McNair from New Zealand First and Rod Donald from the Greens. But then Brian Donnelly came into the House, and things looked a bit better. He is hobbling along on his crutches. He has been playing football\u2014golden oldies\u2014although I would have said not-so-golden, but brave. My colleague generously described his game as brave, and I suppose it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E He ought to examine himself in the mirror in the morning because when he went off to have his football injuries medically treated he was probably depriving a New Zealand pensioner of his or her opportunity to get a new hip. That pensioner has probably been waiting since 1992 for that hip, and now we find that Mr Donnelly is getting new studs put in his feet so he can resume his football. However, as my colleague did, I do give him credit for his bravery. A man of his age should not be playing football. He should not be asking so much\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49e5ebb91ed4835b414cfcd02b5da57\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what Mrs Donnelly said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ecfd34c765a48019caa57fbe2b1c468\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we should not be asking so much of him. Seriously, it is a disappointment that the National Party no longer rates agriculture as a front-bench portfolio. It just shows the contempt that National has for heartland New Zealand. What do National members believe in? We can see what the National Party\u2019s election strategy is, by whom it puts on its front bench. It has a spokesperson for law and order. It figured that New Zealanders do not like criminals, so the front-bench members will make their speeches against criminals. National\u2019s spokesperson on race relations has been promoted to being deputy leader. Usually that is a good indication of what it will fight the election on. National has given its big speech on race relations. It has tapped the full extent of racial resentment in New Zealand. It went up in the polls, it is already over the hump, and it is coming back down again. It is now behind in all the main polls. All four of the main polls show National is down and falling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EIts spokesperson on beneficiaries is on the front bench. It is campaigning against beneficiaries and tapping the deep spring of resentment about beneficiaries amongst taxpayers. National is doing its best to whip up a deep spring of resentment against beneficiaries\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b29fd7ec1a041099cd0fb4b06e6b18a\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022482d00d7ed464de0a0e818cb096b0887\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not working very well. But one thing we can say for beneficiaries is that they do vote and they will not forget the National Party\u2019s betrayal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EThe other group that does not yet vote is immigrants. The National Party is exploiting the deep resentment of some New Zealanders against immigrants. But National members have not done their sums. They have not calculated that with unemployment down to record-low levels of 4 percent and probably still falling, the number of people who blame immigrants for taking their jobs is down to almost none. In fact, there is some doubt about whether unemployed people these days would vote against immigration. They might recognise that there is a skills shortage that we can fill in the short term by bringing in more immigrants, and there are plenty of immigrants who want to come to New Zealand because, despite the gloom, doom, and the badmouthing of New Zealand by the leader of the National Party, New Zealand is still recognised as perhaps the best place in the world to live and to bring up kids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003ELots of people will come back from their travels to the Olympic Games and elsewhere, after enjoying their new-found prosperity by seeing the sights of the world, and say: \u201CWell, it is pretty good over there, going to the Olympic Games and staying in flash hotels, but it is good to be home because New Zealand is the best place in the world to be living.\u201D This has been reinforced by the recent situation and outlook published by the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry for New Zealand agriculture and forestry. It points out that for those of us who still retain a deep interest and abiding love for the primary industries of New Zealand, things are looking even better and brighter after the exciting results of the World Trade Organization meeting in Geneva earlier this month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E For the first time ever, 147 countries agreed that they will negotiate an end-date for all export subsidies\u2014those pernicious interventions that drive down prices and keep unsubsidised farmers\u2019 incomes down all around the world, developing-country farmers, and developing-country economies; all are kept down by those pernicious export subsidies that destroy those developing-country markets and third-country markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EThis is a great day. We can now look forward to when those export subsidies are eliminated. New Zealand can expect to see a substantial increase in the value of our agricultural exports over the next 3 years, along with a slowly depreciating dollar. That is not me saying that; it is the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry in its situation and outlook for New Zealand agriculture and forestry, and it is not biased. It points out that the value of pastoral agriculture, horticulture, and forestry exports is expected to increase by 20 percent to over $20 billion a year over the next 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EThe largest contributor to this will be dairy\u2014the star performer\u2014up 25 percent to $7.6 billion due to higher volumes and prices. Forestry is also up 41 percent to $3.89 billion\u2014largely due to increased lumber volumes and prices. Wool export value is projected to increase by 4 percent due to higher prices, while horticultural export value is projected to rise by around 30 percent in 3 years, mainly driven by a 300 percent increase in wine volume being exported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EThis Government understands very well the importance of primary industry to the New Zealand economy. We understand extremely well the value and importance of rural communities to our society. What was delivered in the Budget for education, health, and families could not have happened without economic success, and much of that economic success started on our farms and in our forests out there in rural New Zealand. They still provide 60 percent of this country\u2019s export income, and it is absolutely essential that we keep them growing and thriving. This Government is doing what it takes to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EBiosecurity funding is up another $46 million over the next 4 years, making a funding increase in biosecurity baseline of 57 percent since the Labour-led Government was elected in November 1999. It is still not enough, but it is also a measure of the complete inadequacy of the previous National Government when it came to protecting New Zealand from exotic bugs and diseases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EThis is a good-news Budget. This is a Government on a roll. We look forward to the next general election\u2014we say: \u201CBring them on!\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002287b4611decf348338f4d11fa76432a0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287b4611decf348338f4d11fa76432a0c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E That Minister should talk to a few farmers if he wants to find out whether they respect his Government\u2019s view of farmers. He will get a strong, clear message. His involvement with the agriculture portfolio consists of waving out of the aeroplane window as he flies over on the way to somewhere else. He showed his regard for rural communities by overseeing the closure of just about every rural school in South Canterbury except for one that happened to have as a chairman someone who used to be the Green Party candidate. Jim Sutton broke his back for the Green Party to keep its rural school open, and closes the rest. [Interruption] The Minister ought to take it seriously. He closed Watlington Intermediate down. It had 500 pupils, and was a very successful school. The classrooms were full. That is why 1,500 people turned up to a public meeting in his electorate, and that is why he will not win that seat in the next election. But he has got some padded-out position high on the Labour list\u2014a man who is now almost completely divorced from New Zealand politics, and who will never reconnect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIf members want a little indication of how this Government works, often these things appear in the small stories as much as the large ones. Mr Mallard boasted in the Budget about everything he had done for at-risk children. He appended to his press release a list of 42 programmes. I asked him: \u201CGive me the names of those 42 programmes, and what money is being spent on them, and what money the Budget plans to spend on them, since it was on a Budget document.\u201D I got the answer to that question today. The list of 42 programmes comes from policy work done in 2001. It is nothing to do with the current Budget, at all. Not only that, but the Government gave an honest answer to a parliamentary question, and that is very unusual. The Government said: \u201CHere are numbers, the amount of money spent on it, but they don\u2019t mean anything.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt is just a small incident\u2014a list of 42 programmes put out for at-risk children in education. If members read the Minister\u2019s press release they would have thought that that was what was being funded by this Budget and that the Minister was doing a whole lot of stuff for at-risk children, but he was not. It was a policy stocktake that was 3 years old with numbers that meant nothing. So many people who have had goodwill towards this Government in education are gradually finding out that they have been sucked in by that goodwill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe used to talk about standards in schools, and National certainly still does. However, I want to raise the issue of standards in a bureaucracy\u2014standards of integrity, standards of professionalism, and standards of good public policy. Yesterday the report of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority into Cambridge High School was released. The chief executive of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority went to great trouble to say that it was only one room at one school where the credit cramming was going on\u2014that is, kids getting credits when they really did not do any work for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Qualifications Authority has been in that school for the last couple of years and apparently it never saw any of this. The credit-recovery room at Cambridge High School has been going for over 2 years. I asked Trevor Mallard at the select committee whether the New Zealand Qualifications Authority was monitoring the New Zealand National Certificate of Educational Achievement, and he said that it was. I asked him whether the subjects were moderated, and he said: \u201CEvery subject, every year, in every school.\u201D\u2014apparently, except every subject last year and this year in one school! Who believes that? Nobody believes that. The official educational agencies are on a mission of untruth about the National Certificate of Educational Achievement, and the Minister is leading it. He does not have a clue whether practices like that are happening in other schools. Does it matter? To him, it does not, and to this Parliament it probably does not, but for thousands of students earning life-changing qualifications at the young age of 15 and 16 when they depend on us to ensure that qualification means something, then this scandal does mean a lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI can assure the Minister that similar practices are going on in other schools. Cambridge High School made the mistake of putting it in one room because it is a school that had a small enough number of kids that they fitted in one room and it called it the credit-recovery room, which sounds like an arm of a debt-collection agency, and it got the book thrown at it, and so it should. But the public agencies have let those students down, as they are letting down thousands of other students. The New Zealand Qualifications Authority was in that school, time after time, for 2 years. The Cambridge High School issue came to the notice of the public only because of the dreaded media\u2014television and magazine reporters who investigated and put those matters into the public arena.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E That in itself is a scandal. The public agencies are so ideologically committed to this qualification that they will not admit any fault. As the chief executive said: \u201COne room in one school.\u201D I tell the Minister that if it turns out it is not just one room in one school, but many rooms in many schools, then that chief executive should lose her job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt is no better in the tertiary sector. In fact, I would say it is worse. We have seen, through questions in the House here, and extensive publicity, a tale of low-level corruption and unprofessionalism, a lack of ethical behaviour, and weak leadership, in our tertiary sector. Has this cost us anything? Well, again, as members will know, it does not matter too much today, and it might not matter too much in this House. But at a time when our economy is crying out for skilled people, when thousands of at-risk young people have been dumped in the Correspondence School out of our mainstream school system, and when we have desperate levels of low achievement among our young children, this Government has been hosing away money through its mates in the polytechs and other agencies, and is unwilling to do anything about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe have much higher priorities. I do not have anything against people getting some adult education, going to night schools, learning how to paint, learning another language, or learning one\u2019s own language\u2014as many of them have been. Those are all good things on their own. But they become very bad things when paid professionals of the State ruthlessly exploit the weak leadership of this Government in tertiary education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESteve Maharey, 4 or 5 years ago, laid out his vision for tertiary education, and many people agreed with it, including some of my own party\u2014quite unwisely, I might say, and I told them that at the time. He said he wanted to steer the system to make high-value, strategic choices in the national interest. Well, when a Labour politician says \u201Cthe national interest\u201D one knows he or she is getting mixed up. What has happened is exactly the opposite of what he said. Instead of the money being channelled into what he said mattered\u2014research and high skills for the knowledge economy\u2014it has all ended up, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, on low-value, non-strategic courses that no Government chose. That is really the core of it. By his own definition, Steve Maharey has utterly failed. He laid out what the policy would do. He made the choices, apparently, and the money\u2014$1 billion extra, actually, on tertiary education, during the term of this Government\u2014has gone on the lowest-value courses that one could imagine. That has also been a product of the Minister\u2019s failure, and failure in the educational bureaucracy, the Tertiary Education Commission. This Budget commits $45 million to that organisation, and it is totally wasted; in fact; it is destructive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e5310f80e594a89a6310abeafd8e5e6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: For the benefit of members, I inform them that the Independent member and the member for the M\u0101ori Party have decided to share their 10-minute slot. I will ring the bell with 1 minute remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228b420d21-23ae-4857-b5ab-8cff62b532d1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1cb06e25e71476586dd5af9370dbace\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b420d21-23ae-4857-b5ab-8cff62b532d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1cb06e25e71476586dd5af9370dbace\u0022\u003EDONNA AWATERE HUATA (Independent):\u003C/span\u003E If any evidence was needed that this Minister of Education has no idea what he is doing, then it has to be the gobsmacking events that have unfolded at Cambridge High School. The report has come out, and for a whitewash it is brilliant. The report stated that there was no formal policy, rationale, or goals, that there was no programme of learning, and that no trained teacher was available. It stated that there was no formal process for identifying students for achievement recovery, and that quality assurance of the assessment was negligible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b420d21-23ae-4857-b5ab-8cff62b532d1\u0022\u003EHow many times have we been in this House and heard that Minister of Education defend the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, defend himself, defend all the abominations that have happened with the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA), and deny that any of these things were coming to pass? Anyone could have predicted that the events that have unfolded at Cambridge High School would have unfolded given that we have had no assurances, in reality, that it had that moderation system set up. Anyone would think that if any school had a 100 percent pass rate, given the normal bell curve of intelligence and of achievement that one will find in any school, someone would be alerted that something was going wrong in a particular school. But no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b420d21-23ae-4857-b5ab-8cff62b532d1\u0022\u003EWho was the very first person to roll up to Cambridge High School on hearing that it had a 100 percent pass rate? It was none other than the Minister of Education himself. What was he thinking, and what was the New Zealand Qualifications Authority doing for the 2 years that it was crawling all over Cambridge High School, not noticing that there were, as it says, no formal policy, rationale, or goals, and that there was no programme of learning? What was the authority thinking? What was it looking for if it could not identify the kinds of unusual and extreme credit-cramming processes that were in place at Cambridge High School? Who has defended the whole NCEA system ever since the Minister forced New Zealand students to be guinea pigs in an unprecedented untested exam system that has been rejected by everyone overseas\u2014a system that we have had to put up with, year in and year out, for the past 3 to 4 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b420d21-23ae-4857-b5ab-8cff62b532d1\u0022\u003EWhen it was pointed out in 2000 that moderation, as the Minister had designed it, would not work, who was it who denied it categorically? It was the Minister of Education himself. Who, when it was pointed out to him that the NCEA would dumb down education, denied it categorically? When it was pointed out to him, on not one but several occasions by several speakers in this House, that both teachers and students would be tempted to cheat under the moderation system as it had been designed, who was it who denied it categorically? It was the Minister of Education himself. So I find it quite amazing when I hear the Hon Bill English comment about NCEA\u2014because I was listening for the magic words from that former leader of the National Party. The magic words to me were this: NCEA will be scrapped by the National Party. Those are the magic words that I and thousands of other parents want to hear. We want to hear that the NCEA will be thrown into the dustbin where all stupid policies that cut down our tall poppies should be thrown. They should be dumped in that dustbin as soon as possible. Where are those magic words? What is the National Party going to do about it? The people of New Zealand must be thinking that Labour will do nothing about it, obviously, but what is National going to do about it? Those magic words were somehow missing from the Hon Bill English\u2019s speech. Given the words that Bill English has spoken today, I ask where the National Party was when my National Certificate of Educational Achievement Moratorium Bill came out in 2002. Where was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c63642610d6454d9102642baaa0bd29\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: It was those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b420d21-23ae-4857-b5ab-8cff62b532d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218498c7b1bad4bc6b44dfe87e4d415b9\u0022\u003EDONNA AWATERE HUATA\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Never mind those people, I say to Katherine Rich. It was the National Party and New Zealand First that voted against the only opportunity that this Parliament had to stop level 3 from being implemented. It was the only opportunity of stopping our gold-plated bursary exam from being scrapped. Where were National and New Zealand First? They were nowhere to be found. Those members have a blinking cheek to stand up in this House, as members of both parties have today, and accuse Labour of not doing a good job. All I want to say to Ms Rich is that National members had an opportunity to do something about it in 2002, and they did nothing. The NCEA should be scrapped as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00222bb1aa885a9343ad97cc7df038e1c1c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bb1aa885a9343ad97cc7df038e1c1c1\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party): \u003C/span\u003EI want to address the estimates of appropriations for Vote Treaty Negotiations, and my comments will relate to two specific areas of concern: the way in which the concept of settlements is grouped under two major outcomes based on deficit analysis, and the vexed question of quantity\u2014are we being short-changed again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EAs all in this House are aware, the Treaty of Waitangi is the foundation document for our nation. At its very heart the treaty represents the basis of a relationship between peoples\u2014a relationship of goodwill\u2014that anticipated promise for our future. I ask how much goodwill can be retained in a relationship in which the key purposes of it are to reduce crime and to ensure that peoples\u2019 interactions are underpinned by the rule of law. The major outcomes that the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has agreed to for Vote Treaty Negotiations, the vote that represents the constitutional basis of this nation, are safer communities in which there is reduced crime, youth offending, offending by M\u0101ori, violence, organised crime, theft of and from cars, burglary, family violence, and serious traffic offending. In other words, if we enact the Treaty of Waitangi claims settlement process, we will reduce all those negative outcomes of crime, offending, and violence. What does that say about the Crown\u2019s view of the parties involved in that relationship? The other major outcome agreed by the Minister is a fairer, more credible, and more effective justice system where there is improved delivery of court services; improved public confidence in the police, judiciary, and other institutions; improved laws; and, finally, improved relationships between the Crown and M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWhat a maze of bureaucratic waffle! How can treaty negotiations reduce theft of and from cars, prevent burglaries, and improve confidence in the police? I am sure that the concept of theft as applied to land would be one that groups would understand far better than any of those other outcomes. The recent claimant group that signed, Taranaki ki Whanganui a Tara, no doubt also considered that the land dealings meted out by the New Zealand Company were akin to home invasion. So treaty settlements will reduce every possible form of crime other than the real crime, wherein our lands, language, and culture were taken away and another was imposed upon us\u2014the crime of being dispossessed of our sovereignty, of being stripped of our identity and our resource base. Our tupuna never ceded their sovereignty. It was taken from them at the point of a gun and by the doctrines of law. It is inconceivable that our tupuna would have given an unknown foreign power the right to rule over them and make laws against them, and to steal their land. It is an impossibility and beyond the powers of any rangatira to do that, both then and now. So when our people learn that the desired outcomes of treaty negotiations will serve to uphold the rule of law, no wonder there is so much cynicism about this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe other key area in the 2004-05 financial year that I want to pick up on is the massive increase of $1.29 million for increased negotiation activity! That is a crime. We want more settlements but also more money\u2014not to be short-changed again. If tangata whenua enjoyed proper protection of their property rights, settlements would be worth considerably more than the meagre pickings calculated in these appropriations. Our people should actually be entitled to legal aid, as are others, particularly those involved in criminal offending. Perhaps the outcome that we could have accepted in Vote Treaty Negotiations was an outcome in which tangata whenua are recognised for the contribution they have made, and continue to make, to this nation; an outcome in which the quality of the relationship between the Crown and our people is actually a meaningful one based on mutual priorities, not just propping up Crown infrastructure; an outcome that would actually demonstrate that treaty settlements are about acknowledging the vital contribution our people have made to all aspects of the social, cultural, economic, and political life of this great country of ours. That is the sort of outcome we can all sign up to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022d90cdd0036f345e5a9d2a162914d6980\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d90cdd0036f345e5a9d2a162914d6980\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Boy, am I proud to be a member of this Government! Boy, am I pleased to be part of a Government that decided in the last Budget to increase funding for research, science, and technology by the greatest amount ever! More money than ever was appropriated in the last Budget for science\u2014an increase of more than 40 percent over the past 5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223a3b2fb1f4d40508013b76fdf0e19f5\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: All wasted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd8c2fc53a8e413b93f28ba8c9396863\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Rodney Hide is about as innovative as a brick. There has been a 40 percent increase in funding for research, science, and technology over the last 5 years. Funding has gone into economic development, environmental research, social research, and scholarships. Money has gone through the Foundation for Research, Science and Technology, the Marsden Fund, the Health Research Council, and Technology New Zealand, increasing the commercialisation of good New Zealand ideas in a global marketplace, increasing patents, increasing all the bibliometric analysis that one wants done, and increasing collaboration between Crown research institutes, universities, and research associations. There is increasing collaboration off shore with Australia, America, Japan, and China. There are increases everywhere, increases resulting from funding going into the centres for research excellence, funding for the Pre-seed Accelerator Fund, and funding for the Equity Investment Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe private sector has done even better. Between 2000 and 2002, in those 2 years, the private sector increased its investment in research and development by 32 percent. The private sector increased its investment in universities and Crown research institutes, but it did its own research and development and filed its own patents. We have growing innovation in this economy. We have an innovative Government. We have a partnership between the two, and it will not be broken any time soon. The economy and the Government, as far as innovation is concerned, go hand in hand. Not that the money is enough; it is never enough. There is never enough money for, say, health research, or institutional funding for Crown research institutes. There is never enough venture capital funding or intellectual property capacity in this country. There is no such thing as enough, but, boy, is this Government making a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EIt is the same with transport. We have got the New Zealand Transport Strategy, we have got ourselves the Land Transport Management Act, and then \u201CDr No\u201D became \u201CDr Yes\u201D. Last June or July, when Transfund announced the national transport plan for the next 10 years, we saw that it showed for next year, in every region of the country, a significant increase in transport infrastructure funding. We now have integrated transport. We now have transport in which multimodal planning is the norm. We have increases in every region in the country, including the Chatham Islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EIn energy, we have got funding this year for the Electricity Commission. It is about time we had ourselves a managed market. We know that a fully regulated market does not work. We know that a free market does not work. Therefore, we have got ourselves somewhat more of a managed market. We have got funding going into gas exploration. We have changed the fiscal incentives. We will address the gas shortage that this nation is facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EIn the last Budget, not only did we have New Zealand dollars, which is what one would expect in a New Zealand Budget, but we had a new currency and it is tonnes of carbon dioxide credits. Those tonnes are being tendered in the next month or two. If a country can produce a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions, then we will give it up to that amount in credits. That country then has to go on the global market to sell them. I signed an agreement with the Netherlands Government yesterday afternoon, as it wants to buy 34 million tonnes of credits. We have 6 million tonnes available, if the price is right. We are seeing climate change making money for New Zealand industry. What is more, we will see this Government run that process at a profit\u2014that is to say, we will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by more than the carbon dioxide credits that are put into the marketplace. [Interruption] They are owned by the New Zealand Government, which is a signatory and ratifier of the Kyoto Protocol. That is a matter of international law, and the member should get her facts right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EUnemployment in this country is now 4 percent. That is not quite the lowest rate in the Western World; it is the second-lowest rate. We have got regional growth everywhere, in every region. We have got per capita income increases. We have got a reduction in national debt. We have got increased provision for superannuation. We are one of the few countries that has decided to partially pre-fund national superannuation. Because of the \u201CCullen fund\u201D, we will not have the problems that France, Japan, or other nations have. We have the Working for Families package, which is the hallmark, the flagship, of the last Budget. It addresses a major problem in this country, which is the rich-poor gap. We are hearing from the rich; they cannot stop interjecting on me. The rich-poor gap is being closed by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ELast week I came back from a remarkable trip through China, Korea, Japan, wherein one finds one-third of the world\u2019s research and development effort. I went there with a delegation of New Zealand science leaders, and we are thickening our linkages to those three nations. After 5 days in those three countries I returned to my home in Dunedin. The headline in the Otago Daily Times was \u201CMr Bumbling Brash loses plot\u201D. The article states: \u201CDr Brash\u2019s assertion that New Zealand risks becoming just another Pacific island State not only bordered on the ridiculous but was silly politics to boot.\u201D That was my welcome home, and it came from John Armstrong, a respected political commentator. He said: \u201CAt the end of the day National\u2019s leader is perfectly within his rights to make a fool of himself.\u201D, and he goes on, for another thousand words, to show why the leader of the National Party made a fool of himself. It was remarkable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI picked up the latest Listener\u2014I had been missing it, having been out of the country\u2014and I found there that Jane Clifton, another political commentator, says it is hilarious that National has come up with the idea of reducing Cabinet from 20 to 15 because the new leader has had time to realise that he would be pushing the proverbial uphill \u201Cto find 10 trustworthy warm bodies to call Ministers\u201D. I think this is called snatching virtue from the jaws of necessity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ESo we are back to the stupidity of New Zealand politics where we have a Government that is working with the country to produce economic growth, and jobs, and prosperity like we have not seen in 20 years, and we have another party that is saying we are becoming another Pacific Island State. It is almost unbelievable just how detached the National Party is from reality. It is extraordinary. In fact, if we have a capacity constraint in this country\u2014and, sure as hell, if one is trying to build roads in Auckland, that question may arise\u2014I think the biggest one is on the front bench of the National Party. It is a remarkable capacity constraint. National members have another election coming. They will get themselves a new intake. They might get some bright new things, they might get some fresh faces, but right now we have a poor National Party under, apparently, poor leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EWell, that ain\u2019t good for democracy. How is this Government being tested? How is this Government being shown up? Where is the quality opposition in this Parliament at the moment? It is to be found in other parties. It is to be found in the Green Party, in the New Zealand First Party, and in the United Future party. It is not to be found in National, and it certainly ain\u2019t to be found in ACT. All that ACT can do is change its leader and go to Auckland and say it is taking the pulse of Auckland for the next 2 months. Do members know what the pulse of Auckland is? It is 60\u2014that is how many people turned up at ACT\u2019s meeting in Auckland last week. That is the pulse; it is a very thin and thready pulse that ACT has in Auckland. But the point of the story is that the ACT party is not a decent Opposition, either. ACT members are very good at shouting out and cracking jokes amongst themselves, but they have no depth. There is no particular analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228df4a4934f724c8ebde6782eaf71aeec\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: 2 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216aaa8932ae84e54979b2993c783aaf8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is why they are at 2 percent. The National Party is a problem. It is a problem for New Zealand democracy because it does not have depth. It is a problem for New Zealand democracy because when its members reshuffle, they cannot even fill the front bench. They have to fill it with the senior whip. It is not as though they have a nine-person front bench. New Zealand First has flogged half the front bench off them, and they still cannot fill the rest. So we are in a situation were the other so-called major party does not have much talent, and its leader provides absolute proof of what lack of talent means. He went to Australia and made a fool of himself, then came home again. He asked a question in this House today for the first time in a month. Where has the Leader of the Opposition been?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec1a6cb630a943688d4a2748c41d7796\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec1a6cb630a943688d4a2748c41d7796\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E The concern that member has for the National Party is touching, to say the least, but we do not need the concern of that member. For those who have just tuned in, that was not the latest pastor of the Destiny Church. That was not the Labour Party\u2019s answer to Tigger. That was Pete Hodgson, member for Dunedin North. What an opportunity he had to talk about this Government\u2019s Budget, but if anybody doubted the relevance of the National Party, they need only see how much of that member\u2019s time was spent talking about the National Party and how much of a concern it was to him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EI heard Steve Maharey, the Minister for Social Development and Employment, speak earlier today. It was very interesting to hear him take credit for everything from a greater life expectancy in this country to reduced unemployment\u2014even Sarah Ulmer\u2019s gold medal. This Government cannot continue to take credit for the good things that have happened in this country, yet totally absolve itself of the responsibility for some of the bad things that have happened in this country, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe social report that was released a couple of days ago was an absolute joke. It picked up on a few key statistics but failed to tell the real story about what is going on in this country. It did not make any mention of the fact that close to 35 percent of young women in Auckland who go on the domestic purposes benefit do not name the father of their child. It did not make any mention of the fact that many of the people who have come off the unemployment benefit have casually moved over to the invalids benefit or the sickness benefit. It certainly made no mention of the fact that the numbers on both those benefits have increased dramatically under Labour\u2019s tenure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ESo rather than the Government having a lot of things to crow about, there are a lot of things that it should have addressed in this Budget, but were not touched on at all. Let us talk about a few things that have gone wrong for this Government. Let us talk about the disaster that is the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services. Why, in the last 6 months, has it failed to answer 11,000 calls from concerned New Zealanders who have phoned because they have been worried about a New Zealand child? People do not ring that department for fun. They ring because they have genuine concerns about children, and to get nothing more than a dial tone and to have to hang up because they cannot get an answer is not fair to those people who ring, nor is it fair to New Zealand children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224486c0c1540a4830a5fb93276b701480\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: Absolute rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc0f906f4e9c450f900594c332d2d6f0\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: There she goes! The \u201CMinister of Champagne Flutes and Smoked Salmon Canap\u00E9s\u201D wakes up to make a comment. I ask that Minister what she says to New Zealanders who ring Child, Youth and Family Services to raise a concern about a child and do not even get an answer. They do not even get someone on the other end of the phone to answer their call. It is a shambles and a disaster, and it is no wonder that we see child after child on the 6 o\u2019clock news as the latest headline. Ron Burrows rang. His call lasted more than 24 minutes, and how was that call summarised under this Government? Two words. It did not even become a notification. It is an absolute shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6dcb03994de4ea980d0c530b970970b\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a81fa506a0904a7d9893176ef1b15c3f\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: National does have some policies in the area of Child, Youth and Family Services, I say in answer to the translucent member for Otaki. We believe that a call centre is not the way to manage the thousands of calls to Child, Youth and Family Services, and that we need to go back to having local child protection teams so that local knowledge can play a part in making a judgment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EFour years ago Judge Mick Brown put out a report that was a great piece of work. He told this Government that it needed to reduce the unallocated case list to zero within 6 months, and the Government signed up to that. And what is the unallocated case list at the moment? It is over 4,000. Somebody has phoned up to share a concern about those children. They have become a notification, and their notes sit there in a file in an in tray, unallocated to a social worker. It is an absolute disgrace. While this Government continues to put out blueprints and baseline reviews, and workshop after study, children wait for a social worker to pick up their file. We have also seen the absolute disgrace\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee4e5b57c8b4467c9e1876ea3515bc56\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member has been interjecting right though this debate, and then she made the comment \u201CThat was disgusting.\u201D That was unparliamentary and I ask\u2014[Interruption] She has been interjecting, and I draw your attention to the Standing Orders and ask that she apologise for those comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e559f854c54e259136b9761a5a7945\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for his contribution. I was going to refer the member to Speaker\u2019s ruling 56/1, which states that interjections must be rare, reasonable, and relevant. I ask the member to desist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e7587459474b79a4cba1d4fc742948\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: It is interesting that that member is making a few comments, because it is clear to me that she is more at ease sipping champagne at the latest arts function than talking about the hard issues about maltreatment of children in this country. It just goes to show what the priorities of this Government are. This Government\u2019s priority is sipping champagne and eating smoked salmon rather than dealing with the maltreatment of children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022683aeec7c99d4998bae74fdf68967119\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: Prior to the dinner break we were discussing the Government\u2019s latest Budget, this legislation, and the Working for Families package. Well, this Budget did not work for families. If anything it will drive more families into welfare dependency and increase the queues. Since when has making families who earn up to $100,000 a year dependent on the State been something to crow about? Since when has raising the effective marginal tax rate for families so that when they earn another $20,000 they get to keep only $3,000 of it been something to crow about? We will see a lot of people being put into the situation whereby they are motivated not to go out and do a bit of overtime, and not to go out and get that second job, because it is simply not worth it. The Government is going to keep the majority of the tax as it claws back some of the benefits that those families presently enjoy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EWhat we have also seen recently is the Government crowing about its Jobs Jolts programme. We heard the Minister say he was going to get tough on people who moved to remote areas. Well, that is all very interesting, but in response to a parliamentary question the Minister told me that Work and Income is not currently collecting any data on how many people move to remote areas. So it cannot tell me whether anybody has been sanctioned as a result of moving into a remote area. Mr Maharey said the Government was going to get tough on people who failed drug tests and job opportunities, and sabotaged job interviews. Well, he tells me he is unsure whether anybody has faced a sanction as a result of failing a job drug test, because Work and Income is not collecting any of that data. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe Opposition has long believed that the Jobs Jolt programme is nothing more than a \u201CJobs Joke\u201D. It is all smoke and mirrors and it is all designed to look as if the Government is doing something, but very little information is being collected. So much for evidence-based research. Really, the Government is looking at putting a political spin on things as opposed to doing something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EOne of the things the Government has glossed over, of course, is the number of women\u2014they are mainly women\u2014on the domestic purposes benefit. I think it is an absolute disgrace that in Auckland one-third of all young women going on to the domestic purposes benefit will not name the father of their child so that the taxpayer can collect child support. I understand there are sometimes some good reasons not to name the father, but I do not believe that one in three young women who go on to that benefit does not know who fathered her child. Work and Income actually admits that 21 percent of those people who face a deduction on the domestic purposes benefit not only know the name of the father but that it is also on file at Work and Income. So Work and Income has the name of the father, either on a birth certificate or on file somewhere, but because the mother will not sign the appropriate form, Work and Income cannot then pass it on to the Inland Revenue Department so that child support cannot be collected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17151fb4946417094273e2a57bedf68\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: National hates success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281fe5698232c4fa392f5dc247de32d4f\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: That member talks about success. I do not think that raising child support debt to nearly $1 billion is something to crow about. There is nearly $1 billion of unpaid child support debt and in the meantime, while the member sits there and shouts, children are not having their soccer boots paid for, they are not getting their music lessons, and they are not having their school camp fees paid for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa3cf0e8681f4963ba169735ca6c9371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa3cf0e8681f4963ba169735ca6c9371\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The challenging of the Chair earlier on, by displaying signage that had been ruled out during question time, is a deliberate challenge to this House and to your authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2a4d9d01ddb4be1911ab887b58664fa\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member but I have already dealt with that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b72ab9ffd884830a5753ffbbd9ce19f\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to finish the point I am making. I know you have dealt with it. However, the same members who were involved this time were the members who were involved during question time, and that is a challenge to you and to the authority of this House. We take strong exception that this has occurred a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f65152e20a46598360457d1c763963\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for his contribution. The Chair does not need inquests on actions he has already taken. I have already dealt with the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8114177a32544e48726bc22d1cd1379\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8114177a32544e48726bc22d1cd1379\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to commend this Government and the Minister of Finance for this excellent Budget for M\u0101ori. It is a Budget that signals the clear commitment of this Government to accelerating the advancement of M\u0101ori, and not being shy about that. This Government is building a strong and confident nation. This Government recognises that for New Zealand to prosper and progress, all individuals and groups have to reach their fullest potential. Providing opportunities for M\u0101ori to reach their potential will ensure benefits for all New Zealanders. This Budget will take New Zealand ahead, and, most important, M\u0101ori will be leading part of that charge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI repeat what I have said earlier this year in the House, that I am very proud to be Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs in a Government that is leading the transformation of our people. This transformation is integral to the strengthening of our nation and our economy. We have heard two nonsensical and shockingly divisive speeches in the last half a dozen months. The first was at \u014Crewa, when someone starting scratching the paternal, pathetic race nuances of people. The second was just the other day, and it was as bad as the performance of the All Blacks, when the Leader of the Opposition went over to Australia, trying to play Judas, and stabbed his country in the back. That is shocking. This Government is not about divisiveness. It is about moving forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ESome members in this House believe that M\u0101ori are not a key part of this nation. Some seek to divide the country to exploit their own agenda. But I tell this House that M\u0101ori are the tangata whenua. There is no better recent example of M\u0101ori culture being at the forefront of New Zealandness than at the Olympic Games, where the success of our athletes has been celebrated with the haka. Sometimes I think the haka is wasted on things that do not return good results for our people, both for M\u0101ori and for New Zealand as a nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThis Budget is certainly designed to elevate the profile of M\u0101ori from dependency, division, and grievance, to economic and social opportunity. It is about changing attitudes. This Government is shifting the profile of M\u0101ori, and we need to celebrate the number that are around in relation to what we have done. I have h\u012Bkoi-ed up and down this country, talking about shifting the profile of M\u0101ori. Demographic forecasts for the next 50 years show that although New Zealand\u2019s population generally is ageing, the M\u0101ori and Pacific populations will remain relatively youthful. In fact by 2021, one in five people aged 15 to 39 will be M\u0101ori. So we will have a whole lot of Scottish - New Zealand M\u0101ori people. The demographic trends of M\u0101ori compared with New Zealand\u2019s population highlight the importance of improving the circumstances of M\u0101ori families. I know that right now in this country a lot more M\u0101ori are going home tonight to put decent food on the table and to talk about the day they spent at work. That has been achieved from the creation of this Government\u2019s policies, and this Budget will add to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ELet us go over some of the things we have done. M\u0101ori unemployment is now at 8.8 percent and tracking down. That is a phenomenal slide from 21.5 percent when we came into Government. That is about closing the gaps, that is about making sure that our people get into the labour market. Over 43,000 more M\u0101ori are now in work than were in 1999. They are working from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. or even longer hours. The number of M\u0101ori registered as job seekers with Work and Income dropped from 74,000 to 40,000, and it is continuing to fall. As a significant part of the New Zealand economy, the M\u0101ori economy contributes $700 million, and there are a whole lot of clusters of enterprise, whether in Rotoiti, Rotorua, Tokoroa, or Tolaga Bay, that are getting together. They are asset-rich and they are not in debt, and we intend to ensure that those clusters move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ESince September 2000 the M\u0101ori Business Facilitation Service has assisted over 4000 clients. The M\u0101ori authority tax review is certainly benefiting those M\u0101ori who are trying to accelerate their enterprise and inter-enterprise. M\u0101ori enrolments in tertiary education, as at May 2004, revealed that the number of M\u0101ori enrolled in tertiary training had almost doubled between 1999 and 2003. In 2002 M\u0101ori gained almost 20 percent of all qualifications, and I certainly enjoyed sitting at Otago University watching a lot of those M\u0101ori get certification and degrees of a whole lot of different sizes\u2014not namby-pamby nonsense, such as some of those legal experts have over there. They got different sizes that are relevant today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a75eb2a0d3bf4c59966a81675f9bb771\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2004/05 Estimates) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 8; M\u0101ori Party 1; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ed1d795820ff4707b7eb76ba6bdb3b10\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2004/05) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 8; M\u0101ori Party 1; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002222aa9ba58236477fa8e5d905cf5367ca\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2004/05) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002245af373aa0064391874d7eacf0323438\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u00222d99852d11494dba82ca3b4c90316451\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d99852d11494dba82ca3b4c90316451\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister of Fisheries), on behalf of the Minister of Finance:\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2004/05) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002286d3fc4fc6f74696aa3fd7c16487550c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2004/05) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 8; M\u0101ori Party 1; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee5cfe3e01d549eeb142fb2fe8c9f8d3\u0022\u003EFisheries Amendment Bill (No 3)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e7d2e1be6dd4ef688349ea1b257efb7\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022888ac0a4b9c945deaa4a28e34be36bfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022888ac0a4b9c945deaa4a28e34be36bfa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister of Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a second time. The Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) amends both the 1996 and 1983 fisheries Acts, as well as the Fisheries Amendment Act (No 2). Part 3, which provides for the introduction of scampi into the quota management system on 1 October 2004 and corrects the general problem with the current quota allocation mechanisms identified during the process of introducing North Island eels into the quota management system, has been reported back separately and received royal assent some 12 days ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EPart 1 of the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) provides for revisions to the Fisheries Act 1996 to reinforce the quota management system as the preferred framework for managing fisheries resources, remove the parts of fisheries law that empower the use of individual catch entitlements\u2014known as \u201CICE\u201D\u2014provide more direction as to when the quota management system will be used to manage fisheries, revise the current regime for authorising access to commercial fisheries, and remove the permit moratorium that is unnecessarily impeding use of fisheries resources. That legislation also extends the coverage of the quota management system to provide for management of highly migratory species beyond New Zealand fisheries\u2019 waters, and provides for technical minor amendments to clarify wording or to provide for technical amendments to better achieve the intent of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EPart 1 makes important changes to the way quota will be allocated in the future. Current quota allocation provisions are impeding the effect of fisheries management as they are based on catching patterns of over 12 years ago that detract from the smooth transition of species into the quota management system. The bill changes quota allocation in two ways. Firstly, the bill immediately removes the individual catch entitlements allocation and 1990-92 catch history allocation for most low-value and low-volume stocks and species. Secondly, for stocks and species that have current utilisation value, the bill retains 1990-92 catch history as a way of allocating quota. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E I have listened to submissions on the bill and will be proposing amendments to improve the way this transition works. I will refer to those amendments shortly when I outline the contents of the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EPart 2 of the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) provides for the transition from green-lipped mussel spat catch permits, issued under the Fisheries Act 1983, to management under the quota management system. Schedule 1 of the bill includes new schedules 4B and 4C, to be inserted into the Fisheries Act 1996. Schedule 4B lists highly migratory species, to which certain provisions of the 1996 Act will apply. Schedule 4C lists species and stocks to which the moratorium on the issuing of new permits will apply. It also lists the stocks and species that will be allocated using fishers\u2019 1990-92 catch history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Primary Production Committee has reported back to the House and recommended by majority that the bill not proceed. It is essential, however, that this bill does proceed. The bill contains a number of important provisions that will provide for improvements in the management of New Zealand\u2019s fisheries resources. The proposals contained in the Supplementary Order Paper meet the concerns reported by the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI would like to draw the House\u2019s attention now to the amendments to the bill proposed in the Supplementary Order Paper. Earlier I referred to the bill\u2019s changes to the way quota will be allocated. Several submissions from the commercial fishing industry recommended that catch history cease in 2009 as a way of allocating quota. I consider this proposal to be eminently sensible and in line with the Government\u2019s policy intent for the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003ESubmissions to the select committee called for the 1990-92 catch history quota allocation to be kept for additional stocks and species. I consider that there is scope for the catch history to be retained for those additional stocks and species. The Supplementary Order Paper keeps catch history allocation for an additional eight species by means of a new schedule to the bill\u2014schedule 4D. Once amended, the overall effect of the bill will be to retain until 2009 around 80 to 90 percent of catch histories for stocks and species still outside the quota management system on 1 October 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper also inserts an allocation schedule to enable the introduction to the quota management system of green-lipped mussels in area 9 on 1 October 2004. The allocation schedule has been agreed amongst stakeholders. The Supplementary Order Paper also amends quota allocation for pipi in area 1A by revoking current allocations of provisional catch history and allocating quota direct to fishers. This amendment is to address quota allocation concerns in this fishery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E The Supplementary Order Paper amends the bill so that quota management system management of a highly migratory species outside New Zealand fisheries waters will be limited to certain circumstances. Quota management system management of such stocks outside New Zealand fisheries waters will be able to occur only where a regional fisheries organisation has made national allocations or other management measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper introduces a requirement for the Minister of Fisheries to consult with the Minister of Conservation when considering future management of species listed in schedule 4C inserted by schedule 1, which are also listed in the appendices to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper introduces new provisions to enable balances from the cost-recovery settlement between the Crown and industry to be correctly apportioned to the new fish stocks and then allocated to levy-payers, as was intended by the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 2) in 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThis bill contains a number of provisions that will improve the Fisheries Act 1996 so that it can better achieve its purpose, which is, of course, to provide for the utilisation of fisheries resources in this country and in our waters, at the same time as ensuring sustainability. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00225fff5ac822734d30ad4ebc32bc6dcec7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fff5ac822734d30ad4ebc32bc6dcec7\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E This is the kind of situation that comes only once in a career, I would have thought. The Government put a bill before the Primary Production Committee, with all the numbers in the world, and most parties supported the bill because they believed it deserved some scrutiny. Then, when the Government bill was scrutinised by the select committee, one by one the committee members have fallen away. The support for the bill has dropped off. National, New Zealand First, and ACT have dropped off supporting the Government bill. The Greens, who love those guys on the Government side of the House, have dropped off and no longer support the bill. A vote in the select committee on this bill was lost by a majority, and that was reported back to the House. What did the Government members on that committee say, in meek, quiet voices? They said they would not write a minority report. That is what they said to us; they said they would not write a minority report. They have not written one for 5 years\u2014not since they were last in Opposition. They have forgotten how to write a minority report because they did not think that situation would come up, so they said they would not write one. The sad thing is that members will not hear a speech\u2014certainly not a passionate one\u2014about this bill from the Labour Party members who were on that select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) is absolutely absurd, and the National Party opposes it. We oppose it for lots of reasons, but we have three main ones. The first reason is that we do not believe that the majority of highly migratory species should come into the quota management system. The second reason is that we do not think the Government has thought long and hard enough about tendering off the rest of the rats-and-mice species that swim around in our seas. Thirdly, we have no idea why the Government wants to put innocent little mussel spat, which drifts around the ocean minding its own business, into the quota management system in order to feed the coffers of three families on the west coast of the north of the North Island. That is why we do not support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI have heard a little rumour. I want to tell David Carter about it, because I do not think he has heard it yet. He will laugh, because he was the chairman of the select committee. We had a lot of assistance in drafting our majority report against this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281196bdde5844656a0393baa17a3e4e3\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: From the Labour members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222da26d2be3014884b1c3d0cc80b2696b\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: We had assistance from the Labour members, and more assistance from the Green member. The Green member opposed this bill vehemently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cd4967c52b44728b92880b8cc85c454\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: He lost his head.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfa515aa5c3a46fb9d7a9b7ea1f6c1f6\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: He did. He wrote pages\u2014screeds\u2014for the majority report, recommending that the bill not pass, but I have heard a little rumour that he will support the Government and vote for this bill. At the last minute he did a little deal, and he will vote for the bill in its last readings, even though he wrote the majority report that stated that the bill should not proceed. That is a sad, sad thing indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003ENational supports the quota management system as the best system to sustainably utilise most of the fisheries stocks in the New Zealand economic zone. That is sensible. But tuna and other highly migratory species are in New Zealand waters for a very short time. They are targeted by lots of countries on the high seas and in other countries\u2019 fisheries waters. They are being hammered by many of those nations, and we pick up 2 or 3 percent of the catch of those species in our fisheries waters. To argue that New Zealand can effectively manage a fish stock that spends only a short portion of its life in our fisheries waters is absolutely absurd. It is important to note, also, that neither albacore nor skipjack tuna is under fishing pressure from any nation, let alone from New Zealand, which means that capping New Zealand\u2019s catch for sustainability reasons is entirely unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EWe are particularly concerned that the legislation will allow highly migratory species to be brought into the quota management system prematurely. If they are brought into the quota management system, it means that skipjack and albacore tuna, and every other highly migratory species, will have a cap on its catch by New Zealand fishers only. That means that when we make an international agreement about how many tonnes of a fish species can be caught, all the other countries will point to New Zealand and say that we only caught 500 tonnes. All our fishers will say that that is because the Government stopped them from catching any more than that, but the other countries will say that is too bad. They will say that that is our quota figure because that is all we have ever caught, and that is all we will ever catch under the agreement. I say, and National says, that that is wrong. Why should we cap New Zealand\u2019s catch, when other nations are fishing highly migratory species all over the world, and particularly in the Pacific region, with no limit, at all? If those species are brought into the quota management system before an agreement is signed, New Zealand\u2019s fishing industry will lose an opportunity to build up a more realistic catch history. That is absolutely absurd and unfair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThat is not the only issue. We are also concerned about the by-catch quota\u2014moonfish, shark, and broadbill swordfish. The catch history years for by-catch species do not line up with the catch history years for the target species. That means that someone who catches by-catch species will not proportionally catch target species at the same volumes. I do not think the Government or the Ministry of Fisheries has looked at that matter particularly well, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe requirement that 20 percent of the tuna caught in New Zealand waters be given over to M\u0101ori is absolutely inconsistent with the intent of the deed of settlement. We completely agree with the statement in the deed of settlement that 20 percent of all fish species as yet unknown should be passed to M\u0101ori when they are entered into the quota management system. National absolutely supports that; M\u0101ori should get 20 percent when such a fish species goes into the quota management system. However, the infinite intent of including species still unknown did not encompass the infinite spatial jurisdiction. In other words, it was never intended that the quota management system go outside New Zealand\u2019s economic zone and that, therefore, M\u0101ori would get 20 percent of such fish when they are caught in the territorial waters of Fiji, Australia, or China. That was never considered, and it is absurd that the Government is considering doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe Minister should resign. I am quite disappointed that, given the job straight up, the Minister put the bill before our select committee. The bill had all the support in the world. The support then shrank away. It was lost at the select committee. Not even the Labour Party members had the heart to convince us, or even the Greens, to vote for the bill at that stage, and it came back into the House with a recommendation that it should fail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI can only say as a final concluding remark that I am disappointed at the Green member who drafted that report back. The Green member has been bought off in some way. I do not know what it is, but he was bought off in some way, and he is looking to support the passage of this bill through the House even though he opposed it at the select committee. I do not know what kind of dirty deal has been done, but I never thought I would see the day when Ian Ewen-Street would go back on his principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c3887b9132434aa2c80060143bf9a3\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s going to be the ambassador for London.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb456b7a097e42fd9e559681b314eed3\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know whether he is to be an ambassador for London, but I did not think I would see the day when Ian Ewen-Street would go back on his principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea23e10f653e4a7695954c0227dd8711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea23e10f653e4a7695954c0227dd8711\u0022\u003EJANET MACKEY (Labour\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Difficult as it is, I will try to rise to the challenge and give an impassioned speech on the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3). One of the first pieces of advice I ever got from the Gisborne Herald was: \u201CDon\u2019t ever write your column on fishing legislation.\u201D, so I will give it my best shot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EThis is one bill that did cause a flurry in the normally very tranquil Primary Production Committee. It is normally a committee of peace and reconciliation, but on this occasion there were very strong differences of opinion, and that is what the select committee process is about. The bill came back to the House with the recommendation that it not proceed in its current form, but it also came back with a commentary that suggested ways in which this legislation could meet some of the concerns of the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EI have a little bit of advice for the National members opposite. Before they take any more calls, they should read Supplementary Order Paper 246, because it does not reconcile with Mr Phil Heatley\u2019s speech at all. It is a shame that Mr Heatley may have read the briefing notes that were handed to him by officials in the select committee but has not actually read the Supplementary Order Paper, and he has given a speech on the bill as it was reported back rather than taking into account the amendments that have been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EOne of the main changes that has been made is that the committee accepted absolutely that the bill as it was presented to the committee provided a huge disincentive for New Zealand fishers to increase our catch of the migratory species on the high seas, prior to the agreement on the high seas being agreed to and ratified. There is now a trigger clause in the legislation that enables New Zealand fishers to get out there and compete for those species on the same terms as other countries. For me, that removes a significant concern that the committee had when it looked at this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EThe second issue Mr Heatley raised was the fact that M\u0101ori will get 20 percent of the fish caught off Fiji, and that is a very shallow and somewhat misleading way of representing what actually happens. M\u0101ori will get the fish that they catch. They will not get other people\u2019s fish; they will get the fish that they get out there and fish for. What they will get is 20 percent of the quota, because there is an agreement in this country between tangata whenua and other New Zealanders that says M\u0101ori get 20 percent of any fishery that goes into the quota management system. So I would suggest that that be presented in an honest light. Let us not pretend to New Zealanders that some hard-working fisherman will go out there in 20 years\u2019 time, catch 20 fish, and will then have to give a couple of them to M\u0101ori, because that is not the way it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6e0557873004b61b053893cd2288fc3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Four of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea934f435464459b9dde087ab47ad8cf\u0022\u003EJANET MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Four of them\u2014sorry! That is why I am not the Minister of Finance. But I would like to think that this House was mature enough to present that situation accurately, responsibly, and in a proper light. I also recommend to Mr Heatley that he check to see whether skipjack and albacore are still there, because I think he needs to just check it. I still think he has an opportunity to go away and read that Supplementary Order Paper, and if he wants a little bit of help, he can come over to this side of the House, and we will give him some assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EThe bill has come back to the House with a number of recommendations and a number of changes and, as a Government member, I am very comfortable with supporting this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022 data-id=\u0022b76fc6b24bd54289bd2163964df423eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b76fc6b24bd54289bd2163964df423eb\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET (Green):\u003C/span\u003E There is no question that this bill was a very flawed piece of legislation when it came to the Primary Production Committee, and we were very concerned at a lot of the things that were in it and a lot of the things that were not in it. We applied to the Business Committee for an extension of time so that we could make amendments to the bill to make it a reasonable piece of legislation, but leave to do that was declined by the Minister. We had no option at that point but to report back, officially as a majority\u2014and I say \u201Cofficially\u201D in inverted commas\u2014so that we could make amendments in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI still believe that this is very poor legislation. We have the opportunity in this House to put some of the wrongs in the bill right during the Committee stage. If the bill does not get to the Committee stage, then we cannot put it right. So what members have to do is support this bill to the Committee stage, but I want to stress very clearly to the Minister that I am not supporting the bill per se, as it stands, but on the basis, firstly, that the Supplementary Order Paper will address some of the wrongs and, secondly, on the basis of undertakings that the Minister has made to me personally. Members have to recognise that this bill is deeply flawed and that we do have to change it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EThe move to open tendering is something that I applaud. It should have happened a long time ago. Obviously, the catch history years have been a deeply flawed method of allocation. I just wish the Government had had the courage to introduce open tendering for scampi, as well, in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022655dc51671e64018a26c1efea04a33f3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The word \u201Ccourage\u201D is out of order. The member must not challenge the Government\u2019s courage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285cd4dea70ed48e3b25a10f2f6febc13\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58e22004a184d2784c09797b0d3dd7e\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: The word\u2019s \u201Cboldness\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8573a102d2548d0b5218188169b13f5\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I thank Mr Prebble. I wish the Government had had the boldness to do it for scampi, but it did not for this one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EIt is very interesting to look at the catch history for other species that are introduced in the Supplementary Order Paper, and I noted with some mirth the presence of prawn killers. I am sure my select committee colleagues will remember the case of prawn killers. It was discovered in the scampi inquiry that Simunovich Fisheries had landed some hundred-odd tonnes of prawn killers allegedly as by-catch for scampi. Scampi, of course, are trawled from the bottom of the ocean at depths of around 300 to 500 metres, and prawn killers are not only tropical, shallow water dwellers but they also live solitary existences and have never been caught in commercial quantities anywhere in the world\u2014except for Simunovich\u2019s catch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI have to agree with Mr Heatley on the green-lipped mussels. Why do we have to bring them into the quota management system at this stage? It is simply does not make sense. I do not think I can add much to the arguments that particularly Mr Heatley has put forward about the highly migratory species, though I do take exception to his idea that M\u0101ori should not be entitled to quota caught outside the economic zone of New Zealand. The deed of settlement in 1992 quite clearly says that M\u0101ori are entitled to 20 percent of all new species that are brought into the quota management system\u2014full stop. I do not think there is any kind of argument that we can have there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EThe issues that I would like to focus on are the geoducks and whelks to start off with, and cockles and pipi. Geoducks and whelks do not really come into this bill per se, but they suffer a consequence of the bill being passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fb0f95dbd8c48e28ca3db5b6ff1daa9\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Is this an issue you caved in on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022443f2bc3112f4cb8ad119335edcae45a\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: This is an issue that the Minister has given me an assurance will be addressed by him\u2014and this is exactly what I was getting to\u2014[Interruption] I wish the Minister were here. It is not in the Supplementary Order Paper, and what we are doing here is discussing the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad902ed61ac9407aa8a52cad33cc0790\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Where is the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e261fdc3b426416f87456ec7544cfb89\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I wish the Minister were present. I daresay he will be listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022145c0f08e6ba4778b765b7e2e8e2952a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7979bf1ddb143d98b77f5173a248b3a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He is busy running the country somewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c45627edfe9e4dc5823f3922de01569d\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he is busy running the country somewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E Westhaven Shellfish is a company from Golden Bay at the top of the South Island that has been farming geoducks and whelks for some years. Because of the incompetence\u2014some would say the deliberate obstruction\u2014of the ministry, it was not given the catch history it was entitled to in the catch history years of 1990 to 1992. Westhaven Shellfish went to court and won its case. It proved beyond any doubt that the ministry was wrong and it was right. The consequence of this bill for Westhaven Shellfish is that without the intervention of the Primary Production Committee, it would basically have gone back to square one. The ministry said that it would allow Westhaven Shellfish to apply for a permit\u2014that is fine, but everybody else can also apply for a permit. Westhaven Shellfish has been through the ropes, done the hard yards, and proved its case, so it is incumbent on the ministry to do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI would like to quote a paragraph from the select committee report, because I think it is really relevant to the whole way that the ministry has dealt with small fishers. \u201CAs previously stated we accept that departments can make mistakes. Once recognised, however, the focus should be on rectifying the mistake rather than on defending a questionable past decision. Rather than simply moving from one management regime to another, the ministry could more constructively use its resources and energy in focusing on rectifying errors and injustices, especially where these have been found by the courts to be unlawful and unfair.\u201D That is particularly true in the case of Westhaven Shellfish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcefa81a48f94c2889f381ca782cb90c\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you voting for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022983f27e31f644056bb6028a8915895a5\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Heatley that the Minister has undertaken with me that Westhaven Shellfish will be given its allocation for both\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a30ecfab100e4c429a660b2fcdefe8a0\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Where is the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb7e5e9551f7485691b2ba343e107bc6\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I am not answerable for the Minister\u2014geoducks and whelks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI want to move on to the subject of cockles, because that is a classic case of unbelievable incompetence by the ministry. [Interruption] Everybody agrees that it was a cock-up that was exacerbated by the 1996 fisheries amendment bill. I think the Minister agrees that it was a cock-up. Basically what happened was that eight people were farming cockles. One of those eight decided he wanted to buy out some of the others, and five of the others decided that they were prepared to sell. But because they were fishing under an exploratory permit, they could not sell their personal shares, but they could convert their personal allocation into a legal entity that was a company. Then the shares in that company could be sold. So that one operator bought five other shares, so he had six shares and two other operators had one each. Subsequently, they found that the 1996 Act said that both the original share in the private holding and the subsequent share in the company holding were entitled to a quota allocation, so instead of eight there were 13. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022021055758394418793ab10b2642bbd48\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you voting for it, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b10d6b8db7734d648dfc7ed505dedf16\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Heatley is clearly a very slow learner. We cannot rectify this situation unless the bill reaches the Committee stage, where we can move amendments. [Interruption] It could go back to the select committee. That is a possibility, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EThe cockle allocation can be resolved in exactly the same way as the pipi allocation foreshadowed in the Supplementary Order Paper. One can simply say that rather than take away something from the people who got a double-dipping allocation, the three parties that missed out on the double-dipping can be given an increased allocation. Everybody knows that that is fair, even the people who got the double dipping. What did the ministry say? It said: \u201CWe can\u2019t be unfair to those guys because they have been double-dipping for 2 years now, and they\u2019ve got a business case going, and therefore we can\u2019t take it away from them.\u201D Well, I am sorry, but the ministry\u2019s job is to be fair and to administer the fishery, and I do not think it is doing it in a reasonable way in this particular case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI was shocked during the select committee hearing to realise that the bill included three species that are on the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora list\u2014they are endangered species. The ministry was proposing to put three endangered species into the quota management system. What sort of signal does that send to other countries? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022 data-id=\u002263318c9445f34d758ade505bb01fe5a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263318c9445f34d758ade505bb01fe5a7\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I came down to the House this evening to debate the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3). That is the one I have in my hand. In fact, what we are discussing this evening is not the bill but the Minister of Fisheries\u2019 Supplementary Order Paper 246, which was brought down to the House and given to members at the eleventh hour. He is expecting this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8b07e0f0f248d985ab44dc1ca1786f\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: 17 pages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c67e7d3ab40e4e57bf5d21730523acab\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: It has 17 pages. We are not debating the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) in any real sense; we are debating a Supplementary Order Paper with amendments that the Minister says are minor and technical adjustments. Well, that is just not correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EI heard Janet Mackey try in some rather\u2014I would not call it pathetic\u2014small way to justify the treatment this bill received from our Primary Production Committee. She was quite right; our select committee, generally speaking, because there are no Government subsidies involved in agriculture or fishing, passes the legislation that comes before it. There is a lot of unanimity amongst the members, and we generally find a sensible solution. But as soon as we turned the pages of this bill we found that it was fit for the round filing cabinet, and it was into the bin with it. It was an appalling piece, as befits, I guess, this new Minister of Fisheries. He has been in the job long enough to know that he should not put an outrageous bill before the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EBut the real reason the Minister wants the bill withdrawn has not been discussed at any length this evening. The real reason he is withdrawing it is because it allocates to M\u0101ori 20 percent of quota of migratory species caught\u2014not in our territorial waters, and not within our exclusive zone of up to 200 kilometres\u2014in the South China Sea. How many people in this country would tolerate for one second quota caught in the South China Sea or off Kiribati going to M\u0101ori? The Minister has recognised that there would be huge political embarrassment over this bill, and his colleague Trevor Mallard, who is responsible for trying to keep the Government\u2019s credibility on racial matters half-reasonable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244251997665e4628b4d6b55374aa88c1\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s losing that battle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223412123c82374b5995851d1941f0ebd9\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014he is losing that battle, as Mr Ardern says\u2014has told him that the bill must be changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a43868fef7f7443681aaa119b32ce14e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s changed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228057a3e84514e3da0a0bbb8052814d6\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he has changed it, but not totally. The Government has tried to buy time. It has said that when it gets some agreement to a regional plan for the South China Sea and right down to the South Pacific, down to New Zealand\u2014maybe in 5 or 10 years\u2019 time\u2014it will bring it into the quota management system. Nobody, I am sure\u2014well, perhaps the Greens might be a bit diffident about it\u2014would disagree that the quota management system is, far and away, the best fisheries management tool. There is no dissension on that issue, at all. But we strongly disagree that migratory species like tuna caught in those faraway places should be brought into the quota management system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E I got the Parliamentary Library to check thoroughly for me whether, in fact, the deed of settlement\u2014the Waitangi Fisheries claim\u2014had any relevance or reference to fish caught in international waters. There is absolutely no reference whatsoever in the deed of settlement to fish caught outside the exclusive economic zone, in international waters\u2014none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b99f0624bce44a8874246c3a7d62ce7\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: In the South China Sea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9f5dccb0b443ac88e6bad746537e30\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Well, quite rightly, there was no reference to that, but what is referred to is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fa3c7b06dd146eb8626aeaf6f1cdf8f\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Winston says M\u0101oris come from China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca1b8cebc3e45f88315de60366227b5\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Well, some say they come from the coast of Taiwan, and I just have this visual picture of Parekura Horomia paddling his canoe out in the South China Sea, dropping a hook overboard, and hauling in a lovely 200 kilogram tuna. It is stretching the issue, is it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EUnder this legislation, fish caught in the South China Sea can be brought into the quota management system, and automatically there is a 20 percent allocation to M\u0101ori. That was never intended under the deed of settlement, yet under this bill it would happen. But because there is huge political sensitivity around this matter at this time, the Government has decided it will delay it. It will still come in, ultimately, but the Government will delay it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EThis bill is also about buying votes. It is about taking 20 percent of the mussel spat catch, which is owned, essentially, or controlled, by a handful of people, who, once this spat goes into the quota management system, will have to hand over 20 percent of their allocation, of their expertise, and of their knowledge. It will have to be handed over immediately to M\u0101ori as soon as this bill gets the royal assent. I say, and the ACT party says, that this is wrong. That is why we oppose mussel spat going into the quota management system. It is not because we are opposed to sensible management at all; in fact, we are highly in favour of such matters, but it is totally and utterly inappropriate to take 20 percent of what is essentially a property right away from the present catchers of mussel spat, and place it into the quota management system. That really is what this bill and this Supplementary Order Paper are about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003EI would like the Minister to take another call on this, if he can, and explain to us why this Supplementary Order Paper came down at the 11th hour, because what should happen with it\u2014and many have said it is a complex\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257949b83ba05495d86188390ba980b3c\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u0027Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is twice that a very senior member of the Opposition, the Hon Murray McCully, has referred to the absence of a member. Everyone in this House knows that is not allowed under the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a710dacb04c941df9a9c93beed15bdb0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for his contribution. It is actually Speaker\u2019s ruling 23/7. If the member did that, then he knows that he should not have done so. I ask him to desist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f623f6c00844d7a9e69d31a97ef97ca\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has studiously avoided the embarrassing questions around this bill. He just refuses to address the questions that people listening in to this debate really want to hear answered. The bill was examined at length, it was discussed at length, it was dissected, and it was recommended that it not proceed. That was almost unheard of. Certainly in my time in this House, I have never been a member of a select committee where the so-called Opposition actually won the debate. That embarrassed the members of this Government enormously, so the Minister and his ministry have scuttled down at the 11th hour with this complex Supplementary Order Paper, and they expect the members of this House to absorb it in 5 minutes then pass it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b0d8b0e0-3ece-4865-9145-5eb5983fc54c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267b7cdfb34164ec0b7ac13b40894f79c\u0022\u003EHon Richard Prebble\u003C/span\u003E: It should go back to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022167938e28a7c4693aa59838d905af573\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Prebble is absolutely right\u2014it should go to the Primary Production Committee where we could examine it properly. Issues have been raised by Ian Ewen-Street. I very rarely agree with the man, but on this occasion he has raised one or two issues that should be addressed properly by the select committee. I believe that that should happen, and I am hoping that that will be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E Government members are hugely embarrassed by their Minister. This measure is about buying votes and buying time so that the Government can retain some vestige of credibility in the eyes of the fishing industry. But those who understand this issue will recognise that this measure is nothing more than a barefaced attempt at buying votes into the future. The ACT party will be listening with bated breath in the Committee stage to see how it finally pans out, but the bill should not proceed at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u0022532c7e168c184412bb4d681e0b77878d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022532c7e168c184412bb4d681e0b77878d\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the second reading of the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3), where we debate the report of the Primary Production Committee, which has recommended to the House that this bill be discharged. The honourable member Janet Mackey commented earlier that it is a good select committee and that its members have often enjoyed very good working relationships, but, clearly, something has gone wrong on this occasion. The committee became convinced that enough was enough and that it would simply recommend that this bill be discharged. I do not have any criticism of the select committee. As I look at the task and at the long journey it has had, working with the scampi issue and then the issues in this bill, I can certainly understand its frustration. What seems to have occurred is a breakdown of trust in the Ministry of Fisheries officials who have been giving it advice, amongst other things. So in what I have to say here there is no criticism of the select committee having arrived at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EUnited Future does not have a member on the committee, so we have not had to go through that arduous process, but we were asked by the Government for help when the committee made the decision to recommend that the bill be discharged. As United Future members are not lapdogs but guide dogs, we were prepared to lend our assistance and give some guidance on this occasion. I had to ask myself whether the industry wanted this bill to proceed. I had discussions with the Seafood Industry Council and other players in the industry, and the answer that I received was that, yes, there were things in this legislation that needed to be passed. I also asked whether everything would be OK if this bill were discharged, and the answer was that, no, there would be things left unresolved, and that some things in the bill that were being complained about would actually continue. For example, mussel spat entering the quota management system would continue regardless, except it would be in a form that was not acceptable to those involved in the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003ESo we began discussions to resolve the committee\u2019s concerns, because we take seriously the deliberations of the committee and the things it has mentioned in its report. I began to work through those issues, and I am grateful to the Minister\u2019s adviser Steve Hurring, who has worked very hard throughout this process in giving us assistance and answering the questions we had, and also to the Ministry of Fisheries, although I have to say that every time we met with the ministry we met a different person. That may well be part of the problem here\u2014the lines of accountability and who is covering what. It is difficult to have to face someone new every time one has a new question to ask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EWe believe that the issues in the committee\u2019s report have been addressed by the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 246, which he has alluded to tonight, and by other undertakings that he has given. I can confirm that some of the undertakings that Ian Ewen-Street has referred to are part of our giving our support for the second reading at least, at this point. As I said earlier, they relate to the things that the select committee has raised in its report, such as the changing of the quota allocation system and the shifting to a tendering process, which we believe is a worthwhile transition. In fact, in hindsight I think some of us might look back at the way that quota was allocated in 1991 and 1992 and think it should have been tendered right from the very beginning, because people have been given a right in perpetuity that perhaps they no longer deserve. If they have completely ended fishing and simply are living on the proceeds of leasing out their quota, I hardly think that is a fair system. However, that is the one we have to deal with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe issues that the Seafood Industry Council and Te Ohu Kai Moana raised about some of the property rights being allocated for by-catch or catch history are now being addressed in a new schedule 4D, and we will debate those in the Committee stage as the bill proceeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E With regard to the issue with green-lipped mussel spat, as I said earlier it is going to enter the quota management system, anyway. I have had discussions with different players in the industry and had different responses from them. Some welcome it coming in and some believe all of that species should come in, because the quota management system works more effectively when everything is in it. Others are concerned about the level of total allowable commercial catch that will be set when the green-lipped mussel spat comes in, and I believe there is room for the Government to make a very generous allocation there. It may involve the Crown holding some of that quota for future tendering, which would offset any move from those who have the quota to operate a monopoly in any way, or to push up the prices. I think there is room for those concerns to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe issue with the highly migratory species is being dealt with by the exclusion of those not yet under international agreements from the quota management system on the high seas until those international agreements are passed. In particular, skipjack, which is the species of greatest concern because we want to build up a good catch history of it, will not come into even the inshore quota management system. In respect of albacore, I have had representations from a number of people in the industry who want to see it now come in within our 200-mile zone. I think that will address their concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI understand that the issue of by-catch, which many people feel left out of because the years do not line up for the allocation of bluefin, will be addressed by a preferential tendering process. We will be watching very carefully to see how that eventuates, but we have had an undertaking that that will be the case, so that the by-catch can be made available to those who need it in order to carry on with the bluefin quota that they will be allocated. With regard to Westhaven Shellfish Ltd, which Ian Ewen-Street referred to, we take the Minister at his word that he will act honourably on it and respect the wish of the court, which has already made some deliberations on that issue. With regard to the cockle fishery and issues that relate to the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, I think we will find some amendments in the Supplementary Order Paper that address those concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI want to conclude my remarks by addressing an issue that relates to kahawai, which we will put into this bill. We have an opportunity here to address something that I believe is very serious. Another injustice may be perpetrated in the fishing industry if we do not address it. Some may say that kahawai is not part of this bill as it has already been gazetted to enter the quota management system, and the Minister has already allocated the total allowable catch and the total allowable commercial catch for it. But with the Clerk\u2019s confirmation to us today that my Supplementary Order Paper 247 is within the scope of this bill, I say to those who would say that kahawai is not in the bill that it is now. I will table a Supplementary Order Paper during the Committee of the whole House to revoke, effectively, the Gazette notice bringing kahawai in with the total allowable catch and the total allowable commercial catch levels that the Minister has publicly communicated, because it ignores the concerns of the recreational fishing groups in this country that have lobbied long and hard to convince the Ministry of Fisheries and the Minister that kahawai is no longer available for them as a recreational fish to catch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that the Green Party has also campaigned long and hard for the removal of purse seine fishing with regard to kahawai, and we look forward to Green Party support for this Supplementary Order Paper, and, I believe, the support of other members in this House. I know that Winston Peters is a great fisherman, and many of the members in New Zealand First will have a concern about this issue. I am sure people in the National Party and ACT will know many people who are very concerned about it. We had an email campaign of nearly 2,000 emails from people around this country. I have received more emails on kahawai than I did on the Civil Union Bill. People were saying they can no longer find kahawai to catch. It has been stolen from them by a mistake made by the Ministry of Fisheries when it allowed purse seine fishing to target kahawai. It has always been accepted that it could be a by-catch, but its being targeted by spotter planes and purse seine vessels is an injustice to the recreational fishermen of New Zealand, and we want to see that issue addressed in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EWe really do hope for the support of all the parties in this House for that Supplementary Order Paper. We have made it very clear to the Minister that our support for this legislation is only for its second reading. If we do not see that Supplementary Order Paper pass through the Committee stage, we will not support this bill\u2019s third reading. This issue is another injustice that needs to be prevented, and this bill deals with many issues like that. I believe that the members on the select committee will be very sympathetic and supportive because of the number of times the Ministry of Fisheries has made mistakes and been unable or unwilling to correct them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u00224095cfdd99cf48e79f367c178434cb77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224095cfdd99cf48e79f367c178434cb77\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I do not expect that my call will be very long. I have listened with interest to the contributions made by members, and I have to say that I think the substance of the bill has been well canvassed. I am taking a call because I am concerned about the issue of democracy in this place. We have the Greens once wanting to discharge the bill, and if Mr Heatley is correct, they actually wrote a large part of the majority report. We heard from United Future, which did not have a member on the Primary Production Committee, commenting on the bill. United Future is supporting a Supplementary Order Paper about 50 percent the size of the bill. If Mr Baldock believes in democracy he should be standing up and telling the Government to send the bill back to the select committee, with the Supplementary Order Paper, so that the issue can be thrashed out properly, and New Zealanders can have a say on this substantial Supplementary Order Paper, which is half the size of the bill. He should not have stood up and told the House that he had had a little patsy talk with the Minister, and wanted to agree on the legislation, and that he knows better than the whole of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dde58b7e853d484c80f2b3348396ab7c\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: I read that member\u2019s report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da056f113f404e7781ced4a4b32681f9\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Baldock needs to read it again, and he will see that New Zealand First stands for ethics and integrity. We believe that far too often when bills come to this House, a large Supplementary Order Paper is tabled, and then the bill as amended is passed in the dead of night, but the public has had no opportunity to comment on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EMr Ewen-Street implied he had a personal assurance from the Minister\u2014and it is not in this Supplementary Order Paper\u2014of some magnitude by the sound of it. The Minister has not taken a call to comment, one way or the other. But for that reason Mr Ewen-Street is supporting the bill. He should be ashamed of himself. New Zealand First will be consistent. We have major concerns about this bill. We will oppose it. We have made those views clear. I hope the National Party takes on board the comments we have made about ethics with regard to the way this legislation has been handled. New Zealand First will oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7109ceb251d4c36bee9404280484364\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7109ceb251d4c36bee9404280484364\u0022\u003EDIANNE YATES (Labour\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Whenever I am looking at fisheries legislation I am glad that I live in a landlocked electorate, because I think these issues are quite difficult to get one\u2019s head around. I compliment the Minister, David Benson-Pope, on the work he has done. He took over the portfolio in the middle of the process and has had a good deal to sort out and work through. I thank him for the work he has done in this regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EI am a member of the Regulations Review Committee, and I feel somewhat overwhelmed when we get fisheries regulations and have to understand how the quota management system works. I thank members of the Primary Production Committee\u2014although there is a lot of banter going on here tonight\u2014for the work they have done. I am sure other members of the House are very grateful, because those of us who are not involved in fisheries, find that some of the terminology and discussions about the quota management system tend to make our eyes glaze over. The select committee has done a good job on this extremely difficult issue for an industry that is very important for New Zealand. I say a big thank you to those involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf70418861fb4220830b1914ee06649c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf70418861fb4220830b1914ee06649c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National): \u003C/span\u003EI tell the member who has just resumed her seat, Dianne Yates, that I am familiar with fisheries legislation, and I say to her that the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) is thoroughly bad legislation, advanced by an absolutely incompetent Minister of Fisheries who was totally captured by his officials. The House should accept what the Primary Production Committee said, and that is that the bill does not proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI have listened to the debate so far, and I am bitterly disappointed with the contribution from the Green member, Ian Ewen-Street. He was a valuable member of the select committee who worked with the rest of the members of that committee, and contributed to a report presented to the Parliament following the select committee process in which he, representing the Green Party, voted for this legislation not to proceed further. I am bitterly disappointed to find in the House today, as we debate this legislation, that he has now had a change of heart and is saying to the House that he thinks the Minister will look after his concerns by means of the Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe then had the contribution from Larry Baldock of the United Future party, who, true to form as a member of that party, simply supports the Government and has made no attempt at all to find out what the issues are. Mr Baldock said that he understood the Minister was to be taken at his word with regard to the content of the Supplementary Order Paper, because the Minister is an honourable member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWell, I have to say, after reading Supplementary Order Paper 246, which was dropped into the House earlier today, that I cannot be convinced that Ian Ewen-Street and Larry Baldock are correct, and that this Supplementary Order Paper addresses the concerns raised by either of those members or, more important, raised by the select committee. I have had the opportunity of talking to some of the other members in the House tonight and, to be honest, none of the select committee members whom I have spoken to completely understand the content of this very sizable Supplementary Order Paper. Therefore, on that basis, I will be putting a notice of motion for the Order Paper tomorrow suggesting that Supplementary Order Paper 246 goes back to the select committee so that the select committee can analyse this legislation in depth and find out what the Supplementary Order Paper does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIt is important, when we go through the select committee process and have the opportunity to hear the numerous submissions that are put before it, that we then have the opportunity, as a select committee, to analyse, consider, and deliberate on those submissions. It is very, very significant when a select committee, by majority, concludes that legislation is so bad that it should not proceed. Yet we have the feeble signing on to the Government policy by both the Green member and the United Future member, both of whom have the gall to come into the House tonight and acknowledge that they do not understand the content of the Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ENow I am not critical of the fact that they do not understand its content. As the person who chaired the select committee and as a person who studied this legislation in detail, I also do not understand the content of that Supplementary Order Paper. Therefore, it is absolutely critical that the Government allow the opportunity for that Supplementary Order Paper to go back to the select committee so the members can have a look at the content and find out what it does. Then I will accept Ian Ewen-Street\u2019s position if, after that education process, he is inclined to change his mind. I will fully accept that process. But I find it galling in the extreme for Mr Ian Ewen-Street to be changing his mind now on the basis of the Supplementary Order Paper, which he himself acknowledges he does not understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe third point I want to make with regard to the Supplementary Order Paper is that there is a time constraint. If this legislation is to proceed it must be enacted before the new fishing season, 1 October 2004. I therefore propose that any examination of the Supplementary Order Paper be done speedily and reported back to the House by 6 September. That gives every opportunity for this legislation to then be passed if that be the intention of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIt is of major significance for legislation advanced by the Government to be lost at a select committee. I sympathise with the position the Government members found themselves in. They heard the submissions. They were uneasy with the submissions. They were not comfortable with the bill proceeding. But as loyal members of the Government they found themselves in an invidious position, and I respect the position they were in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI want to talk now about what the legislation proposes to do. The first thing it proposes to do is change the quota allocation system and move to a tendering system. I have no problem with the principle of that, but what I strongly object to is that that process was done by a fake consultation process with the industry. We were told by the Ministry of Fisheries officials that they would consult, and that they had consulted, with the industry. The industry told us that consultation had been a total sham, and under cross-examination the ministry officials acknowledged that the process had effectively been a sham because they had set too tight a time limit for the industry to respond. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe second thing the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) does is move the management of green-lipped mussel spat into the quota management system. We saw no submissions that gave us the heart to agree that that was a sensible move. The quota management system is designed to ensure sustainability. Species are introduced into the quota management system because there is a sustainability problem. The select committee learnt, through the process, that there is not a sustainability problem with the spat that is harvested off the Ninety Mile Beach area in Northland, and we saw no good reason, as a select committee, why that particular aspect of the bill needed to be advanced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI move to the most important part of the bill, which is the Government\u2019s attempt to extend the quota management system well beyond the New Zealand economic zone. The significance of that is that all parties acknowledge that when a species comes into the quota management system, because of the 1992 deed of settlement legislation, M\u0101ori are entitled to 20 percent. When that legislation was passed it was always envisaged that that would be for species caught within New Zealand territorial waters. What we now have is an extraordinary attempt by the Government to give allocation to M\u0101ori on species caught as far afield as Fiji\u2014and anywhere else in the world. That was never the intention of the deed of settlement in 1992, nor should it be now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe had a contribution from my deputy chair, Janet Mackey, who assured us that the species skipjack tuna and albacore tuna, about which there are no sustainability issues, are now excluded by the Supplementary Order Paper tabled by the Minister today. I have gone through that Supplementary Order Paper, and I cannot see where that is the case. That is the basis on which the Greens have accepted that they will now vote for the legislation at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThere should be no attempt by any Parliament of New Zealand to extend the deed of settlement beyond the economic zone of New Zealand. It was inherently designed for the quota management system within our 200-mile zone and should not, under any circumstances, be extended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe final issue I want to raise briefly is the three particular submissions presented to us by Sea-Right Investments Ltd, Westhaven Shellfish Ltd, and a third one to do with the cockle industry. Those people raised legitimate grievances that need to be addressed. I am far from convinced that the Supplementary Order Paper does that, but we should wait until it is recommitted to the select committee so that we can further examine it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2e8a5fb8bbc4114a80c303c4f32ccdd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2e8a5fb8bbc4114a80c303c4f32ccdd\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E As has been said earlier in the debate, this bill amends the Fisheries Act 1996 Act and the Fisheries Act 1983, and it has some very positive aspects to it. It provides for the introduction of scampi into the quota management system, and it corrects some problems that have occurred previously with the current quota allocation mechanisms that were identified\u2014in particular, during the process of introducing North Island eels into the quota management system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EThis bill is important. It provides for revisions to the Fisheries Act 1996. Some of those very positive aspects are the reinforcement of the quota management system as the most preferred framework for managing our very valuable fisheries resources. It provides more direction as to when the quota management system will be used to manage fisheries, it revises the current regime for authorising access to commercial fisheries, and it removes the permit moratorium that is quite unnecessarily impeding the use of fisheries resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EBut, overall, one of the aspects of this bill that is important to the ongoing management of this incredibly valuable resource is the sustainability aspect of it. We all know of fishery resources throughout the world that have been absolutely depleted when poor management has come to a crisis point. Hundreds of jobs are lost, and the economy of regions is decimated. Our system here in New Zealand is highly regarded internationally for its forward management aspects. That is why this bill is a good bill. It provides for the utilisation of fisheries while still ensuring that important element of sustainability. I am pleased to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbc05455d2b14ac181c859286b46a237\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbc05455d2b14ac181c859286b46a237\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Like the rest of my National colleagues, I rise in opposition to the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3). [Interruption] I know that that will come as a surprise to my colleagues over there. There are a number of reasons, and if they just hold their horses for a moment, I shall explain those reasons to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to note earlier on that the member from United Future Larry Baldock said that he was the \u201Cguide dog\u201D. As far as I can tell, instead of leading the Government members out of the dark, he has led them right into the dark\u2014and I base that on the contribution of the member for Wanganui. Clearly, she is not absolutely au fait with this bill. There are a number of reasons why the fishing industry in New Zealand is a very important industry. Primarily, it is because it is a major export industry. It employs about 25,000 people, and last year its exports were worth between $1 billion and $1.5 billion. It is a substantial industry. We have to wonder, then, why we are here tonight, in such a mess over legislation that went to a very good select committee, which recommended that the bill not proceed. Yet we are here tonight debating the bill\u2014or at least we are debating a 17-page Supplementary Order Paper that has just been introduced by a Minister in the eleventh hour of this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003ESo there are a number of reasons why I stand here tonight in opposition to this bill. One reason is that the legislation is an absolute abuse of parliamentary process. We have a major industry\u2014[Interruption] It is interesting that the member over there interjects. Clayton Cosgrove is a senior member of the Primary Production Committee. He has been on that select committee for a long, long time\u2014he was there when I was first on it\u2014and he has not taken a call on this bill tonight. With such an important industry as the fishing industry being debated, we have not had a single peep out of that senior Government member other than interjections. I invite him to take a call. That would be the way to clear up some of the misunderstanding the member says that I may have about this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003ELet us come back to the bill for a moment\u2014or, more important, all 17 pages of the Supplementary Order Paper. It is not often that we come to the House and pick up a Supplementary Order Paper that is 17 pages long. That does not happen very often. Further, it is not often that a Supplementary Order Paper is introduced into the House a few hours before we are due to debate the bill. That is an abuse of the parliamentary process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThis legislation is supposed to put a cap on the highly migratory fish species. On the surface, that would sound fair enough to someone who has not been close to the process. However, if one talked to select committee members and read the submissions, one would find out that that means that we are now going to introduce fish that are caught off the coast of Fiji, or Bangladesh, or somewhere else like that; North America, South America, or anywhere one can imagine in the world, into the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b095243d0e2f4b78863a020bf068399a\u0022\u003EIan Ewen-Street\u003C/span\u003E: Switzerland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f41fb82f0b8d40619f95efaf03852dce\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good point! Earlier, a member took a call and said that she had come from a landlocked electorate like Switzerland. I would suggest that my electorate is bigger than Switzerland. It has a longer area of coast than Israel or Switzerland. The member would be surprised to hear that. In fact, it is bigger than Israel and sometimes just as hostile, but that has nothing to do with the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3). That was a nice diversion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThis bill is an absolute abuse of the parliamentary system. It is also interesting to note that the Green Party has done a complete U-turn. It has been bought out, and I do not think that it was for some loaves and fishes, either. I think it was for something more substantial than that. We have not found out what it was for, but we know that the Green members have been bought off, because they have done a U-turn. That is not unusual. There are many, many occasions in this House when they talk tough on a range of issues and then come to the House with a completely different approach from the one that they had taken during the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe select committee process is the correct place for the detail of this debate to take place. That is why my very good colleague, the chairman of the Primary Production Committee, the Hon David Carter, has suggested that the Supplementary Order Paper be resubmitted to that select committee\u2014all 17 pages of it that virtually rewrite what was intended in the bill that was voted down by majority in the select committee. I think that would be a very good way forward for the Supplementary Order Paper. Members could then look at the detail, talk to the officials again and sort out some of the loose issues that exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EA further issue that needs to be debated here is the issue of mussel spat. I was fortunate enough to spend a few hours at the select committee one day filling in for somebody, and I became very informed on the mussel spat issue. Apparently, mussel spat is in plentiful supply some years and in other years it is very hard to find. It seems to me that it will be very difficult, firstly, to establish a quota for that, and secondly, even if a quota is established, how will it be managed? That seems a perfectly reasonable question. I wish that the Minister would take a call to explain that to us. Who knows? Maybe he will during the Committee stage. Maybe the senior member Clayton Cosgrove from the Government side will take a call and explain to this House how that will happen. Those who discussed this at the select committee said that it would not be physically possible, particularly if one was chasing that mussel spat right over to Fiji. Further, the fisheries season starts on 1 October. Therefore it is important that these regulations are in place for the beginning of the new season. Given the mess that that Minister has left this legislation in, and the 17-page Supplementary Order Paper he has introduced, there is no way that this can be carried out in a timely, sensible, normal parliamentary process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E I ask the members opposite\u2014the Ministers, whoever; somebody over there\u2014to please take a call and explain to us why it is that they have allowed this process to get to this point, as it has, in such a mess. The only conclusion we can come to on this side of the House is that the Minister himself  has made an absolute mess of it and has not managed the process. He is a new Minister\u2014we will give him credit for that\u2014and probably a very short-lived Minister by the sound of it. His time surely must have expired given the mess he has made over this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe other issue that has been discussed tonight is that of the green-lipped mussel. I do not think there is any reference here to the Green Party\u2014but there could be. I think it is a fish species. There has been some reference to that tonight. Further, how do we introduce\u2014and this was a fair enough question from someone who genuinely does not know\u2014the aquafarming part of that business into the quota management system? One does not have to. [Interruption] Well, I want to know how it can happen. Who here knows? Does the chairman know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d7d5d9491b247a588b15a126fd5942f\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Farmed seafoods will effectively be excluded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d6dd10c9be54ae8918b2671c815b37d\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That answers that question. The member says that farmed seafoods, or aquaculture, is excluded. But, then, the chair of the select committee himself said that he does not know or does not understand what is in the Supplementary Order Paper. So can he be sure of that? Can he be sure that the Minister and his incompetent management have not included aquaculture into this 17-page Supplementary Order Paper so that now the green-lipped mussels are actually caught up in this process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219bafda8f91e404ba74e51c1ea05870e\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: What about chocolate fish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeb0a8fcbd5045aea553fe8f4aef4588\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Chocolate fish were certainly debated in the earlier part of it, and certainly they are a migratory species in our house. They move around fairly quickly, and the quota management system does not work well, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI wonder how fair this process has been when I look at the fact that we are here tonight with a 17-page Supplementary Order Paper that nobody understands or has had time to read. I am sure the Minister has not, simply because he has not made any reference to it, at all, during this debate, or tried to clear up some of the questions. I know that the select committee members who sat through the submission process on this bill have no idea what is in this Supplementary Order Paper and do not understand it. Therefore this whole Supplementary Order Paper should go back to the select committee so that the committee can have a look at it.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThere is another interesting breed here, which I think needs to be touched on again tonight, and that is whole concept of being able to introduce the like of geoduck into the quota management system. Our spokesperson on fisheries tells me that there is such a thing as a geoduck, and I know that the member Ian Ewen-Street is very passionate about geoduck, because I have heard him talk about them ad nauseam tonight. I am curious to know how we are going to manage geoduck that are caught off the coast of Brazil in the quota management system. I want someone in the Government to explain to me how that will be so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a37ea17389da45cd8b904bbf9fb71c65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a37ea17389da45cd8b904bbf9fb71c65\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I am really interested to follow on from that member. I was told that he was supposed to be the person to chair the Primary Production Committee but he was overtaken by Mr David Carter. I am not surprised now, because when a member boasts that his electorate of Taranaki has a longer coastline than Switzerland, one has to wonder about the intellectual rigour of his argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe second thing the member made reference to was migratory species, and he talked about fish off Bangladesh, fish in Fiji, and so on, as though fish recognise national boundaries. They simply do not, and that is the point I make to the member. If we are going to preserve our fish stocks in the ocean, then we have to look at the fish as part of that great entity, the ocean. It will not be possible to have a quota management system that looks after some, and simply says that some people can take some here, somebody can take some there, and other countries can take some somewhere else, etc. New Zealand has to play a part in that. Simply to ignore the issue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e0bacdb16394a71a13cb5d9bee63102\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: So are you voting against the bill as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a60c0fcd5d4977845b647e5b829bb7\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is why this issue is going to be in the bill and in the Supplementary Order Paper. Members over there apparently cannot get their heads around 17 pages of Supplementary Order Paper. The member preceding me, Mr Ardern, claimed that no one understands it, and I think I can take from that that he means he cannot understand it. I think he should get his researchers to give him some better speaking notes. This is a good piece of legislation that has been well managed through the House by an excellent Minister, and I look forward to supporting it all the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022 data-id=\u0022034432e42bbd4d6a8f701a9feb1be137\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022295c9ca3-0f0a-4af6-b1bd-32c916cca579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022034432e42bbd4d6a8f701a9feb1be137\u0022\u003EGERRARD ECKHOFF (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to move that the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 246 be referred back to the Primary Production Committee for further consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241e8267781794023bfcb14f5a79018ba\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224cb59efbb0c94ab3abdaa1a69175dabc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; M\u0101ori Party 1; Independent: Awatere Huata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e64f0200853f4d268d44bd4cb0324fc8\u0022\u003EEducation (Export Education Levy) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002260dda8ea97144d9fbc94218e76c1a05d\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000641\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 12 August.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022967f80555c2d4dbf8dd1ae6e4aaaac4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022967f80555c2d4dbf8dd1ae6e4aaaac4c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E National members have opposed this bill, and when I last spoke I gave a number of technical reasons that were to do with its retrospectivity and unfairness. But one of the reasons why I strongly oppose the bill is that it expresses some basic philosophy of the current Government. I will tell members why. Labour works on a very simple recipe for Government: \u201CReward those people whom you regard as your loyal friends and punish everyone else\u2014and do it with cash.\u201D That is what is happening here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis bill is all about punishing the people whom Government members do not like\u2014that is, the private providers of education for international students. It does not matter whether the provider is a public provider; they will just mess up the market by sending a Minister to China\u2014and that has cut into their income, which they are really regretting. When the students get to New Zealand, the public providers are left alone but the private providers are not. There has never been an explanation for this, because the explanation is publicly untenable. It is simply that Trevor Mallard and the Labour Party do not like people who invest private capital into education. They regard that as an abomination of education. The fact that private providers attract thousands of students is by the by. So this bill to levy those providers\u2014and it does so in an unfair manner\u2014is expressive of the Government\u2019s habitual instinct to punish the people whom it believes do not vote for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWe are passing this bill on a day when it has been revealed that the Government has decided to spend $8 million of education money on rewarding its friends\u2014the teachers who have chosen to join the Post Primary Teachers Association (PPTA). They are to get a $500 cash payment, which has nothing to do with their merits as teachers, nothing to do with the needs of the children they are teaching, but purely to do with the fact they have joined the teachers union. The other 3,500 teachers, who do exactly the same job, will not get a cent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229edd1f76a9804378b5d0b2375675550a\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Not a dime!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba6d31d2ea543e491d12ebfbd039745\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Not a dime! Through the school boards, parents will be asked to make up the difference of $500 per teacher for those who have not joined the union. At least when we have talked about the education export levy, the Minister has given some explanation for why he has done it. I do not agree with the explanation. But when we talked to him about the levy on parents to pay the $500 for the teachers who are not members of the union, there was no explanation whatsoever. So the bill, as it winds to the end of its sad and lonely path through this Parliament, is expressive of those basic philosophical prejudices held by the Government. It is expressive of the way in which it rewards its friends by giving them cash and punishes its enemies by taxing or levying them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe House needs to be reminded that this bill started out in much worse shape than it is now. When Mr Mallard is sitting in his office with his officials, away from the glare of the common-sense views of the public and the Opposition, his prejudices are expressed in a much more virulent form. Fortunately, through the process of public scrutiny, the excesses of this legislation have been dealt with\u2014but not all of them. Although the Government has ironed out one or two of the worst aspects of the bill, it has decided that it must persist with it\u2014even though no one thinks this levy is a good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe international education export industry is vital to New Zealand. Our schools collect $125 million worth of school fees from it. The deficit in our schools amounts to $28 million. Imagine how bad it would be without the international students. They contributed $125 million in 2002, and, probably, they will provide more in 2003. It is unfortunate that the Minister keeps travelling to foreign countries, because that is what is putting students off from coming to New Zealand, and it is unfortunate that when they do come they will have to pay higher fees in order to meet this ridiculous levy\u2014a levy based purely on the prejudice of the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba3b3d95fc4746eba8ae07ab37540007\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba3b3d95fc4746eba8ae07ab37540007\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Education (Export Education Levy) Amendment Bill. I do so because this bill provides protection for the international export education institutions. As Mr Bill English has mentioned, we have a $2 billion industry, which is a very important sector of our export business. It is important that we have a protection in place for the international students who come to study in New Zealand, because we have developed a great reputation internationally for our education system. We now have over 80,000 students who need protection from any of the problems that some of these institutions have faced in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003EI think the only issue that arose at the Education and Science Committee was clause 5, and the Minister has agreed that it be removed. I believe this bill will now provide a very suitable protection for our education export institutions. I am pleased to support it, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f67d630ea51c4bb0bafb93f858dd058e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f67d630ea51c4bb0bafb93f858dd058e\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to oppose the Education (Export Education Levy) Amendment Bill. On behalf of the only non-aligned political party in this House, I want to outline, first of all, the negative implications not just for the segment of the education industry that we are directly talking about tonight but for New Zealand education in general. I note that the commentary on the bill states: \u201CThe main purpose of the bill is to provide statutory protection of New Zealand\u2019s international reputation as a desirable location\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cafd2df03a34f89aa70fdc187b1cd43\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cd79daf47434ddabfcd488f80b81c6a\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the laughter is quite well merited\u2014\u201Cwhere international students can study without educational or financial risk.\u201D That was the stated intention of the bill. But when I turn to the bill I see that almost as much of the bill has been struck out as remains. One would wish the Minister and his advisers in good sense would take the whole bill back and rethink the whole issue\u2014that is, the background to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe Minister and his advisers seem not to have had any regard for the issue of education providers and their concerns. There is no seeming recognition about plant, ongoing capital expenditure, quality staffing, and the high cost of the on-flowing information and publicity\u2014that is, all those trade issues that go with the words \u201Cdesirable\u201D and \u201Ceducational organisation\u201D, including host visits. All of that is put aside in this mean bill before us tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThis bill treats all institutions in exactly the same way. Those who are confident and sound and have established, at great personal cost and over time, a reputation with regard to their vision of quality private education according to the registration and qualifications as set by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, are treated in exactly the same way as those institutions of dubious value, of which, at this point, there are at least four that have failed. In other words, the ministry has come to this time with a new principle, and that principle is this: the prudent protect the imprudent. It almost goes alongside the Associate Minister responsible for tertiary education, who, confronted by the fact of irregular behaviour and funding by some tertiary institutions, goes ahead and treats the whole lot in the same cavalier fashion, without any regard for those who had worked according to the funding requirements and met the targeted outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EOne of those institutions was Telford, which has been in the news recently. It is a small training institution that is going to be severely embarrassed by the $400,000 loss it will now have to look at over the next 3 years because of this new principle that the prudent protect the imprudent. All those who have not worked according to the ministry\u2019s dictates with regard to tertiary education come under the same broad sweep of the Minister\u2019s draconian hand. New Zealand First did not support the bill, and has not supported this bill since the export education levy was first introduced. That is largely because it was very poorly done. As I said earlier, this levy was too much of an impost on legitimate providers, who had no option but to pay. They were given no ownership of the concept and took no real part in the process that decided the conditions and clauses in the bill. In other words, this has been a decree from on high. Export education providers can say quite honestly, and did say, they had no say in who can provide this form of education, but when the can is out there, ready to collapse, they carry the can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, the prudent protect the imprudent. Those who do right are penalised, exactly the same as those who have shown the failure we have seen over the last 2 years. The other issue that has emerged in this bill is with regard to registered private training establishments. This bill, in its passage through the various stages, has highlighted the complete inability of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to do its task, which is, mainly, to monitor and analyse the actual business of accreditation, auditing, and monitoring of the export education sector. In fact, in the brief time I was on the Education and Science Committee, when the Hon Brian Donnelly was away, I thought the authority\u2019s attitude was nothing less than cavalier, to say the least. When I see just recently that same attitude with regard to the excellent school that Cambridge High School is, I fear for the future of that authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E If there is to be accountability in the export education sector, it should either be market-driven or there should be effective monitoring agencies able to detect the warning signs and act on them early. The New Zealand Qualifications Authority did not do so. We know, of course, that although the private providers will pay the levy, ultimately the students will bear the cost through increased course costs. In turn, that will make what has been a growth industry\u2014as has already been highlighted\u2014with significant impacts upon international education and more to come, less competitive in what is now an international student market. We know that in Australia, Canada, the United States, and Britain, to name some countries, there is active competition for this same market that we have. That comes against a background, in some countries, of Government support and subsidies. Therefore, this bill, with the impost it will put upon the private training provider, puts us behind the eight ball in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EAnother aspect of the bill is that, at the end, any money left over is not to be spent on the purposes outlined in the bill; it can be used for any purpose, at all. That is very untidy and sits very poorly with New Zealand First. So there is a lesson for the Minister and his advisers, and it is this: to correctly analyse the problems of an industry such as this one, they need to talk to the providers appropriately and with a due recognition of, in this case, the emerging challenge of having to regain respect and restate credibility for the provision of education in this country, and not resort to improper retrospective legislation. As we all know, the Minister found that when there was a collapse of one institution, Carich Training Centre, his ministry\u2019s power to act was invalid, so he resorted to what we have before us\u2014a blatant attempt to retrospectively try to get it right. The answer is that he has it wrong. He has it wrong in a very large way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe impact of the Minister\u2019s inability to correctly analyse the situation and his inability to talk in the appropriate manner\u2014a manner that should have brought the private providers to a recognition of the mutual problem and worked out with them answers that were mutually acceptable\u2014means we have a result that New Zealand First could not support, notwithstanding the fact that we are strong supporters of the high-quality education that can be enjoyed in this country and has been provided by private providers. This bill is not the answer and therefore we believe that it should not proceed further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022563439b4bbd544fbb1e5d2edcc3aedae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563439b4bbd544fbb1e5d2edcc3aedae\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Greens to make a very short comment on the third reading of this bill. The Greens have always been very concerned about the nature of export education, and the potential for exploitation of those students who are brought over here to participate in and purchase educational services. None the less, our concerns about the export education levy were directed initially to ensuring that it would be used to support those international students rather than fund the general education budget or vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis bill is very narrow in its scope. It ensures that international students who are unfortunately victims of institutions not capable of managing their financial circumstances do not suffer for that. We think it is important that they are properly supported, and we therefore support this bill and its purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c40cfb4ce696442ca4ff490bb832765c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c40cfb4ce696442ca4ff490bb832765c\u0022\u003EBERNIE OGILVY (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of United Future to say that we are opposed to this bill. When I look back over all the readings and speeches as well as the select committee proceedings on this bill, I see one thing that stands out, and it is one of the reasons United Future certainly opposes the bill\u2014the Government has got offside with a major and important slice of the export education industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that puts the Government on one side and everybody else on the other side, so that private language schools and private training establishments have been antagonised. In fact, when I looked at the bill again this evening I wondered whether it could have been renamed the \u201CHow to Upset and Infuriate Export Education Providers in the Private Sector Bill\u201D. That would have been a nice name for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EIt is one of those bills that set out to divide and conquer. It is an aggressive bill. We were told, as others have illustrated already, that this bill was put into place to address the issue of accountability. Yet we understand the word \u201Caccountability\u201D to mean, for instance, that if I make a mistake then I am responsible. But if someone else makes a mistake, how can I be responsible for that person\u2019s mistake if there is no connection between the two of us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EThat is one of the outstanding problems this bill fails to address. It actually states that if a private provider fails, then those good providers who have nothing to do with that failure are penalised. For whatever reasons the provider fails, everyone is penalised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EAll the way through the passage of this bill we had submissions. Every submitter who came to the Education and Science Committee said they were opposed to it. Accountability means that a method needs to be chosen to help everybody through the dilemma this industry faces, or has faced, but the method the Government has chosen is really that of putting a tax on everybody. We all know that when a tax or levy is imposed, people become suspicious. In fact, trust is broken in any sort of relationship when taxes are levied on people, groups, or companies that were never consulted before those taxes were imposed upon them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EWhen submitters came and met the select committee, they offered a number of cooperative suggestions and ideas, which, if they had been taken up, would have provided a simple answer to the issues rather than put an antagonistic levy or tax on the entire private sector. One of those ideas, as I recall, was a call for a better bonding system for the control of those who enter the industry, in the way any profession holds the people within its group accountable\u2014for instance, the Institute of Chartered Accountants, the Law Society, or whatever else. Another suggestion\u2014and a very cooperative one, I felt\u2014which could easily have got the buy-in of everybody in the industry, was an insurance programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EOthers suggested that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority should have more teeth and more ability to exercise its powers, or should be given powers to close down private training establishments if they were trading while insolvent. In fact, that suggestion was just ignored, as were a number of other suggestions given to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EWe find it embarrassing that this particular bill is an impost upon the entire industry. It is a huge and exciting industry but every time the Government has interfered in it we have noticed that a hiccup has occurred. For instance, when the Minister went on a visit to China there was a further hiccup or blip in the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EThis tax bill will penalise only the good institutions, and has therefore already affected the industry negatively. I do not know why the Government did not take a more professional approach with this whole exercise. I am not sure whether the opportunity has been lost for a recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EUnited Future would like to suggest that the bill should be tossed out even tonight and should not go through, and that the Minister should apologise, withdraw the whole thing and start again, and get a more cooperative programme going. That is the support approach, which, by the way, the New Zealand Vice-Chancellors Committee suggested was a good way in which to handle the whole thing. Although that body is not even a private training enterprise, it saw that the bill was an incredibly unbusinesslike and unfriendly approach to the whole exercise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a031c9de-7856-491c-8f6f-bc67f285b4f7\u0022\u003EThe Government ought to have encouraged all providers to strive for excellence. So as a result of that not happening, United Future does not feel any obligation to support this bill. It is bad legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u00226fb09e0c02db4f40a3959cb7d42384d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fb09e0c02db4f40a3959cb7d42384d5\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT party is also opposed to this legislation. I agree with Mr Ogilvy from United Future that we should have thrown it out right at the beginning. This legislation illustrates the Minister\u2019s and the Government\u2019s attitude to education in this country. I use the legal profession as an analogy. The legal profession self-regulates. The Law Society is the gatekeeper as to who can be registered as a lawyer and practise law in this country. Sure, the Law Society is backed up by statutory legislation. Nevertheless, the law societies are the gatekeepers, and they punish their own very swiftly when they are complained about or when they do not keep up the high standards required of them. There is no better way to keep standards high than having peer groups as the gatekeepers, the people who come down in judgment on those who misbehave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThis legislation deals with only the private education providers. They are the only ones that are being taxed. The responsible ones are being punished in order to deal with those that might in the future let students down or might not obey the legislation regarding trust accounts etc. Why did the Minister not introduce legislation, for instance, to tax all the polytechnics when taxpayers forked out $50 million for Wanganui Polytechnic? Why was he not consistent then? Why did he not bring in legislation then to tax all the polytechnics? Why is he punishing just the private providers? All those people out there who work very hard in the education provision industry\u2014international, or export education, as we like to call it\u2014do keep high standards and do not use money for things other than what it is paid in for, but they will now be punished. Where is the incentive for institutions to adhere to the rules if they know that a slush fund exists, which will grow bigger each year, to bail them out if they go under? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EInstead, we have the New Zealand Qualifications Authority as the gatekeeper. Let us look at the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. Members should remember that the legislation was brought in largely because of the Modern Age Institute of Learning and Carich, which both went belly-up. We have here the New Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2019s report of the quality audit conducted in February 2003 on the Modern Age Institute. The summary states: \u201CThe first NZQA audit of Modern Age was held in September 2001 and found 14 requirements of QA standard 1 not met. The current audit also found 14 non-compliances and made four recommendations.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThat is the institution that will be charged under this legislation with being the gatekeeper for those that wish to supply export education. That is the organisation that cannot even monitor or keep quality control of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA), as we saw with Cambridge High School. What we have seen with that school is a policy that is so ideologically driven that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority would bend over backwards to spin all its audits and quality checks to show that what it believes is successful is a success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe NCEA is a failure, just as this will be a failure under this legislation. It will be a failure because the New Zealand Qualifications Authority is not capable of monitoring anything at all. In fact, it should not even have the word \u201CQualifications\u201D in its name. It is not about qualifying anything. It is just about quantity. What the New Zealand Qualifications Authority is pushing all the time is bums on seats, and never mind whether there is any learning going on\u2014just so-called qualifications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EQuestions have been asked that have never been answered before this legislation was brought in and pushed through the House. For instance, I asked the Minister in September 2003\u2014and the question has never been answered\u2014why the New Zealand Qualifications Authority bothers to carry out audits of private institutions if it is not prepared to take action before the financial situation reaches a crisis point, as happened with the Modern Age Institute of Learning. Why did the New Zealand Qualifications Authority not advise the 500 or so students of the Modern Age Institute, when it carried out its audits, that they should not hand over any more fees to the institution? Why? There is no answer\u2014silence. They do not know and they do not care. They are just fattening cattle for beef. That is what this Government thinks of export education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EWhat does the Minister do? He rushes off to China to try to patch up the reputation of the safety of New Zealand schools. China puts pressure on the Minister and he rushes off there. What about New Zealand students? When does the Minister rush off to anywhere in New Zealand when parents of students in New Zealand are concerned about the quality and safety of their children\u2019s education? Never. He does not. He does not go to places like Taihape, New Plymouth or Taranaki, Invercargill, or the West Coast. He does not care and could not care. He just rushes it through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003ELast, there are two more things. The other reason why this legislation has been introduced was because of Carich, another institution that went under. Carich was a training company that had the famous Carich\u2019s Computer Gym class, which led to a national certificate in computing and business administration. Why did the numbers soar at that institution? Why did that organisation get into so much trouble? Well, it was because it had a fully funded New Zealand Qualifications Authority \u2013 approved Computer Gym course, fully subsidised by the Ministry of Education, that gave every enrollee a free desktop computer. Sixteen-hundred computers were given out\u2014so many that the computer company said it was the biggest single order ever given to a locally owned assembler. It is no wonder that these outfits get into trouble when this Government endorses policy that has incentives such as free give-aways to enrol people so that organisations can get more taxpayer funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying that heaven help us if we get to the stage that the UK has got to with international fee-paying students. The UK\u2019s Sunday Times in July stated: \u201CFor sale: university places go to cash-rich foreigners\u201D. In the UK now, if people have the money and are from overseas but do not have the qualifications, they can get in ahead of domestic students who have higher qualifications but do not have the money. That is the route we are going down in this country with export education with this sort of legislation, and that is why the ACT party is opposed to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u002243192afb35404767b69d1cc779a74219\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243192afb35404767b69d1cc779a74219\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support this excellent piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb32156c9fe54ae7a0be5949a208336a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb32156c9fe54ae7a0be5949a208336a\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is obvious that the Hon Chris Carter has not even bothered to take the time to read through the bill, and that is why he had only one sentence to deliver. Labour must have known this legislation was bad, and that is why the first, second, and third readings of this bill have all taken place as the very last item of business in the House. Labour wants to get away from scrutiny by the media, but I am sure there are still members of the public who are interested in export education who are hanging on to every word of the debate that is taking place right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe public was assured by the Minister of Education, the Hon Trevor Mallard, at the end of last year, when this bill was first introduced, that the bill would improve the international community\u2019s confidence in New Zealand\u2019s export education. Well, the number of international students in language schools in New Zealand has plummeted by a third, we were told by Statistics New Zealand. Of course, some of the reasons for the fall are due to external factors, such as the rising dollar and increased competition internationally for students. However, the high-profile collapses of some educational providers in New Zealand, the constant changes to the Labour Government\u2019s immigration policy, and the protracted procedure involved in obtaining student visas all contribute to the loss of New Zealand\u2019s competitive edge compared with other countries, particularly in attracting students from China and Korea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003ELet us reflect for a moment on the recent, very high-profile saga relating to National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) credits at Cambridge High School. We learnt once again that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority has audited Cambridge High School and did not detect any problems. We were told by National\u2019s education spokesman, the Hon Bill English, that in effect the Minister of Education assured the Education and Science Committee that the authority has monitored the way NCEA credits are administered by the various schools. Well, so far, the authority has not provided answers about its role in not detecting the problem at Cambridge High School. So where is the authority\u2019s accountability? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003ELet us come back to the export education sector. In similar instances, the authority has not provided answers so far for its failure to detect problems in the high-profile collapses of private educational providers, despite the fact that staff in those schools and other people had brought those concerns to the authority\u2019s attention. Curiously, the authority seems to be reluctant to take action and, to date, it has not fronted up to take responsibility for their failings. After all, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority is responsible for accrediting and monitoring export education providers, but it does not seem to want to take responsibility for its own failings. Instead, this bill was introduced to make private providers pay for the failure of their competitors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThis bill should never have been introduced into the House. The passage of the bill will create a totally undesirable precedent. Think about this: private educational providers are to pay and be punished for the failure of their competitors, when they have no say over who can join the export education sector. The authority that can decide who can join the sector in the first place is the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, and the authority\u2019s job is to monitor the quality of the provider and whether those providers adhere to guidelines. So the price of the failure of the gatekeeper\u2014the New Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2014is to be paid by the private educational provider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E Apart from the lack of confidence due to the lack of robust accreditation and monitoring systems in the export education sector to ensure the delivery of a quality standard of academic and pastoral care for international students, another reason that has contributed to the drop in the number of international students is the lack of understanding by the Minister of Education of the needs of those students. Many students and their parents write to me, complaining that graduates cannot get a job after finishing their study because employers are reluctant to give them a job offer. Employers are put off by the uncertainty and the length of time involved in the New Zealand Immigration Service issuing work permits. As a result, international students cannot secure opportunities to gain work experience in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EWhen students approach the New Zealand Immigration Service for a work visa so they can look for a job, they are told they need to have a job offer to secure a work visa. The students are like footballs, being passed from one post to another. International students and their parents get the impression that New Zealand is interested only in making money out of the students, rather than in being fair and giving the students at least the chance to gain work experience before they return to their homeland. When we think about it, those graduates would make ideal potential migrants to New Zealand after they complete their studies here. Why not think outside the square and introduce a job search visa to enable international students to gain work experience? In the long term, we may even gain some good migrants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EIt is time that the Minister of Education did some homework and came to grips with the $2.2 billion export education industry. Instead, the Minister of Education has gone into overdrive and announced scholarships to attract international students from overseas. That is interesting, is it not? He has chosen to overlook the fee-paying international students who are prepared to come and pay for their tuition here. Instead of doing his homework, this Minister of Education would rather spend taxpayers\u2019 money to offer scholarships to international students and to put spin doctors\u2014under the name of \u201Ccounsellors\u201D\u2014in overseas posts. If the Minister of Education does his homework, he will understand that we need to ensure that the export education sector delivers quality education at a competitive price. We need a well-thought-out visa policy, effective processing of student visas, and to provide work opportunities for international students. Funding spin doctors overseas will not solve the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Qualifications Authority should work with the export education sector and learn to trust it. After all, the success of the export education sector was the result of a lot of good work by various institutions. Most language schools and other institutions have been in operation for a while and have the good of the students and New Zealand at heart. They do not deserve to be treated this way by the Labour Government. If the Labour Government is serious about wanting to restore the confidence of the international community towards the export education sector, it should allow and encourage the Education and Science Committee to conduct an inquiry into the New Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2019s capacity to do its job properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThis bill was brought to Parliament as a knee-jerk reaction to the collapse of both the Modern Age Institute of Learning and Carich New Zealand. Both those institutions were accredited by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, which is the only body that can enrol international students, yet today it has not been held accountable for its failure to do its job. National is totally against the passage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022dad23a5b98934eeab16af0bd4f97c601\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dad23a5b98934eeab16af0bd4f97c601\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E The Education (Export Education Levy) Amendment Bill is excellent legislation. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00228107800b37064afd88c7213e168abd54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228107800b37064afd88c7213e168abd54\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E This is a bill that, although small in stature, has a significant impact on the education sector, and in particular on those that choose to provide educational opportunities by way of being private providers. We have watched as Deborah Coddington and others\u2014including Mr Bernie Ogilvy from United Future, and Pansy Wong from National\u2014have outlined what peculiar legislation this is. Instead of concentrating the Government\u2019s mind on issues regarding the quality of the courses offered by the various educational providers, this legislation simply isolates one group of providers regardless of the quality of the educational courses that they offer to students. This legislation divides the tertiary education sector between the courses offered by public State-owned providers and those offered by private providers. Unfortunately, the bill does not examine the quality of the product that is offered to students by institutions, nor does it test the quality of courses in a way that would have avoided the fate of the two institutions that collapsed. Because of those collapses, this legislation is now being wheeled in at the last minute as a rescue measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E The major difficulty with this legislation is that it is simply against private providers and is not in favour of ensuring there is quality education for fee-paying students. What this bill should have done, as my colleague Deborah Coddington pointed out\u2014and this was raised during the second reading and the Committee stage\u2014is to take the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the Tertiary Education Commission and put those two bodies on the rack. Those bodies should have been asked how it came about that two institutions collapsed and lost students\u2019 money during the course of those collapses. More particularly, the Tertiary Education Commission and the New Zealand Qualifications Authority should have been asked about exactly what they were doing at the time of the collapse of the two institutions. But instead of the Minister turning his mind and his focus to the Government authorities that have a statutory responsibility for the quality of courses provided at educational institutions, he simply decided that he would go after the private providers alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EMembers on the Opposition side of the House have consistently said throughout the course of the debate on this bill, which has been lengthy, that that is the wrong way to look at educational questions, because who provides the service, or the course, is not the issue. The issue is not whether the provider is State-owned or privately owned; the issue is whether the student who is paying for the courses provided by an institution is receiving quality education in return for the money that is being pumped into the institution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E The Tertiary Education Commission, which was to have been a light-handed, streamlined strategic steering instrument, now employs 324 people, and in the last 12 months it has spent $7.8 million on consultants and contractors to do the most basic of tasks\u2014that is, to implement the charter and profiles system. That is what the Tertiary Education Commission was supposed to do in the first place, but, no, it has paid $1 million to Burleigh Evatt for the implementation of the charters and profiles system. What was the Tertiary Education Commission doing when the institutions collapsed? Where were Andrew West and his team when that occurred? Where was the New Zealand Qualifications Authority when it occurred? This legislation should focus on the audit and quality control functions of those two institutions, not on punishing private providers per se. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EDuring the same week that we see a bill that will punish private providers about to, presumably, pass through this House, we also learn that the Government has stitched up a deal with the Post Primary Teachers Association, and is to offer only to members of that association a $500 sign-up bonus. Over 3,000 quality, competent teachers who are not members of the association will be left out of that deal. What does that deal do for the quality of the education that our children receive? What does that deal do for the quality of the courses that our children will be taught? It does nothing! All that it does is reward members of the association for their collective bargaining. I know that my colleague Roger Sowry would say that under the Employment Relations Act, which passed through this House under extraordinary urgency in the year 2000, it is contrary to the Act to allow bargaining arrangements to favour members who belong to a union over people who do not belong to a union. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s intentions in respect of education are crystal-clear this week. We find legislation that slams private providers, and we find dirty deals being done with the Post Primary Teachers Association, but not with teachers who are not members of unions. As my colleague the Hon Roger Sowry asked, where is the good faith in that bargaining arrangement, and where is the good faith in the arrangements that private providers sought out when they set up institutions to provide courses and opportunities for students that the State did not provide? The public providers did not make opportunities available to the students who were seeking those opportunities from private providers. The Minister of Education needs to stand in this House to tell members who are debating this bill that it will not punish just private providers and to tell members that his deal with the Post Primary Teachers Association is not in breach of the Employment Relations Act. I believe that it is in breach of that Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThis bill is a farce, and the two authorities and organisations that should have been under the gun following the collapse of the two providers are not other private providers, but the Tertiary Education Commission, which is slack at best, and the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, which could not even find a chief executive for 18 months because it has been in such a shambles during the last 12 to 15 months. This bill has taken a long time to go through this Parliament, and the reason it has taken such a long time to do so is that it is bad law. It is a bad ideological step to punish providers because of their public or private status, and not to seek out the institutions that will not provide quality education to the students who attend them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022b056073c34ad4804addc7913a4e0374d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b056073c34ad4804addc7913a4e0374d\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki):\u003C/span\u003E I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228d6573520e8d4a42a290b0d6732f4c93\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education (Export Education Levy) Amendment Bill now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 8; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000703\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10.01 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20040824d0584437ed0540b28b35d85c3503e1e8000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"