"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc6cf610704b4e3b989f8792c3513344\u0022\u003ETuesday, 2 August 2005\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232396566a7574247b869390dd1555d74\u0022\u003ETuesday, 2 August 2005\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc4db2fd416843818d5a3e1eebc5ae38\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258ffaa96114248e1aeb021eb3c25a056\u0022\u003ECanada\u2014Speaker of the House of Commons\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00222cf503ea4c6645df8b37fee69642ad14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cf503ea4c6645df8b37fee69642ad14\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have much pleasure in informing members that the Hon Peter Milliken MP, Speaker of the House of Commons, Canada, is within the precincts of this Chamber. I am sure that members would wish that he be welcomed and accorded a seat on the left of the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EThe House will also wish to welcome members of his delegation who are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d630bc873bac4ec1b364868cd924aaf3\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cde4163482242c6a0c05f786ea1a9e2\u0022\u003EDavid McGee\u2014Clerk of the House of Representatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c89a61990bad4572b888642243be3d1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c89a61990bad4572b888642243be3d1f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Perhaps I could use this moment to take the liberty of referring to the fact that yesterday Mr David McGee achieved the position of being the Clerk of the House for some 20 years. Perhaps colleagues might like to join me in noting that fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0bdb7ee75454ed0875bfdb43e290bbb\u0022\u003EResponses\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cc7c2e030e44bd981d1c57548166979\u0022\u003EOmar Ali and Amer Salman\u2014Statements made by Rt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00228b432e12161d4b70b9004e75df7c76bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b432e12161d4b70b9004e75df7c76bd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hereby present a response under Standing Orders 161 to 163 on the application of Mr Omar Ali and Mr Amer Salman relating to statements made by the Rt Hon Winston Peters MP on Tuesday, 31 May and Wednesday, 1 June 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00224f63f9f64a404c718579df6891c673f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f63f9f64a404c718579df6891c673f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That that paper be published. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296b6734af92846a29d6cf3d5cac03510\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac123be6feb54095b09d6fe84ba445dc\u0022\u003EQuestions for Written Answer\u2014Standing Order 366\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002272783fee17134f4ba832e13d5211dd15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272783fee17134f4ba832e13d5211dd15\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My point of order relates to Standing Order 366, \u201CLodging and publication of written questions and replies\u201D. Throughout the last 3 years we have had problems\u2014and we have raised these matters with you and sought your assistance on them\u2014in getting, in a timely manner, replies to questions for written answer, in particular from the Minister of Police. I am not happy that the replies to questions for written answer Nos 8400, 8401, 8402, and 8408, all submitted on 20 July and due for reply on 28 July, arrived at the New Zealand First office only this morning\u2014ironically, or interestingly enough, after the time in which we could, formally, have lodged questions for oral answer so as to follow up on the information that was presented. That Minister has consistently, through his entire era of incompetence, refused your instructions and refused to comply with the Standing Orders. Once again, New Zealand First finds itself disadvantaged by his failure. I ask you, on behalf of all Opposition MPs, to bring the Minister into line and make him do his job in accordance with the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c419dbdaa5d24b3e9a934e215eedfa47\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his comment. I will check on the matter and report back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd034ba0aa4b4ffc9b51daecd09243e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd034ba0aa4b4ffc9b51daecd09243e6\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I would be obliged if you could also look at exactly the same issue in relation to questions for written answer Nos 8409, 8412, and 8431, in which the Minister was asked about his response and his interest in self-defence in the exercise of citizen powers to help apprehend people, and advised that it has not been possible to obtain the information required to enable him to respond to the question by due date. These are questions about his own actions, and they did not require anyone else\u2019s information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ac6581210e4f5f8d727f5b369a0528\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I will look into the matter and if I understand that that was the response, then under the rules that is the response. It may not be a satisfactory one, but it is a response. However, I am happy to look into the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002266e45602a604401a96e6a3c1361752b3\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002261feadc369e84d3f9c850b1c91284657\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc0dc5cc6e5447dda24245e5e4e98b1c\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Motorcade\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229106dce05f984e0183e72d3b7f17b579\u0022\u003E1. RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: For any prime ministerial motorcade, who makes the decision about the speed at which the motorcade travels, and what responsibility does the Prime Minister have for that decision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022141071bb95e9418c9f0cd7c6bc223272\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022141071bb95e9418c9f0cd7c6bc223272\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that operational decisions regarding motorcades are taken by the police. I as Prime Minister have no involvement, and I will make no further comment on matters related to a case before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dddec83df1fa485e8b700b8050853a5d\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Will she take this opportunity now publicly to apologise to those New Zealanders who were left in fear from the speeding motorcade, particularly as she was quite happy at the time to say that she did not have any fear for the safety of other New Zealanders, when in fact that is not so; if she will not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022238cf4cc4992465eab76a7645c37ed3c\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I will not be making any further comment on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b51cf5a3185c4ad4b4a419fe3cc397e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How could she not know about the speed of the car she was travelling in on the day in question, when the windscreen of her car had to be repaired and replaced, and a front paint job done because of the gravel and stones coming off the car in front of her car, the one she was riding in, and would not that be something she would notice in her busy schedule of reading her documents, at 140 kilometres an hour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b90a4bfb6c9f49618581ef91f11fd579\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, I will not be making any comment on a matter before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5f2a3eac6dd4893aaadf31f217fcc8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the matter is sub judice the Prime Minister might take that stance, but why would she not tell the truth when it was not sub judice and when she was previously asked about that travel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278f0ee0c8c29433eaa9bed35eb9d7a05\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, it is a requirement to tell the truth in this House. I have nothing further to say about a matter before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d22f18ed0c24135a26efad730069cc1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chair. I asked the Prime Minister why she did not outline the facts of the case prior to the matter being sub judice, which has nothing to do with the questions being asked in this House, but has to do with a prior time, and she cannot evade it on the basis of her answer today. It is simply a case of whether she told the truth outside the House when she was originally asked about the speed of that motorcade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a5db7fbdfd4631928dce4455a37a67\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the member that I am not in the position of Chair during question time; it is the position of Speaker. I also note that the Prime Minister did address the question, though obviously, of course, it may not have been to the satisfaction of the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b62240ad-adda-430d-887a-8f999ef4bbc4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4c1cc4b752f41c09cf4540f2cab6117\u0022\u003EDr Muriel Newman\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Prime Minister say to those New Zealanders who see ordinary policemen being hung to dry for just doing their job, which was trying to get her to a rugby game that she did not really care about watching, but she did want to be seen at?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f7717d2dfc84dfa8ede2e13a2dfbd94\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat, I have no comment to make on a case before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd5e713b5d2e433f9988bce6c226537b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister has no comment to make now, why did she say at the time: \u201CIt wasn\u2019t Helen Clark, private citizen, rushing to a rugby match. It was Helen Clark as Prime Minister, with a set of public engagements for the day.\u201D, and does she accept that that view would have put high expectations on those who were accompanying her on that day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269993cf900f247539760841b646998a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat what I said earlier\u2014that operational decisions around motorcades are taken by the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a86a3a63e9d14e7fb2cf9247d34b5e98\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister asking the people of New Zealand to believe that as a passenger in a car that was travelling in excess of 170 kilometres an hour over gravel roads, with stones that were being thrown up hammering her car so badly that it had to be repainted, and the windscreen had to be replaced, when braking, accelerating, and overtaking cars on the road was going on, all the while she had her head down, totally oblivious to everything that was happening, because she was concentrating on her work, and would the public not be right in thinking that most normal New Zealanders\u2019 knuckles would be white as they clenched to hold on in such a circumstance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227613941b49b8405c9f7fa57a8888c213\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I have no comment to make on a matter that is before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226411418a8bb44feb84e2aeef3058e490\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think for a moment that the people in charge of the speed of the car would have driven that car at that speed if she had not agreed with the speed they were travelling at; and if she does not think so, why has she not come out and at least made an apology to those men who are now before the court, rather than hide behind her putative office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a8ca498fd443d18d548bd2998a9cf0\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing putative about the election of the Prime Minister. I repeat, operational decisions about motorcades are taken by the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022920dc39501b546f99a46fe1cd8bd3a4a\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that the Government is considering using Greg Murphy to spearhead an advertising campaign, targeting young drivers, against speed\u2014which the ACT party fully supports, especially in light of the tragic events at the weekend\u2014and will she consider funding the second part of that advertising campaign, which would be her going on television to apologise for the speed of the motorcade and explaining to New Zealanders that speed kills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223faf7449fdab4c20b8999dca6244bef2\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I have no knowledge of any proposed advertising campaign of that nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba6ed95d38a4d4fa925897ec86a9893\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Prime Minister telling the truth outside the House when she said that she was so engrossed in conversation, and so hard at work in the back seat of a car travelling in tight convoy that she had no idea that they were travelling at speeds in excess of 170 kilometres an hour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260df55c715d2478a85200a05a8459e54\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in earlier answers, I have no comment to make on a matter before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002271e6a79a45034f309864acc41c9a55a0\u0022\u003EStudent Loans\u2014Interest-free Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5851bd36c54647833a456c7ef16cbc\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with recent reports which suggest that the interest-free student loans policy announced last week will cost significantly more than the $300 million per annum currently estimated; if not, what assumptions has he used to reach that conclusion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0ba6c21f58040849bb8399187e6e409\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0ba6c21f58040849bb8399187e6e409\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E No. As I told the House last week, the costing is based on 70 percent of all full-time students and 13 percent of part-time students paying their fees through a student loan, and up to 50 percent of full-time students drawing down living costs. The costing is also based on up to 60 percent of full-time students and 18 percent of part-time students drawing down course-related costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556fd909afa74f439103daec7f88f448\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: What has changed since February, when the Minister said that major changes in student loan policy were likely to happen only \u201Cif the country struck oil and we were guaranteed economic security for the next 50 years\u201D, and that improvements to the loan scheme will be \u201Cat the margins rather than a massive change\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022939a4c162d7d4332a82b507fe7d5a678\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: If the member looks further down the quote, he will see that I said: \u201Cbut you can never rule out anything in politics\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a72ba80a56fd493590b38a0fc759c537\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he received on the proposal to scrap interest on student loans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8a204814bfc49ba9527adbb70a06f4f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: What I have seen in Nelson last night is the fact that Kiwis just love it. Grandparents love it, parents love it, and hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders who are concerned about their families\u2019 debt love it. This policy is travelling very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd38b7a33f4e40fa81f571cc43631996\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen further commentary from the National Bank, which says: \u201CWhile risking getting a political pasting, we have to say that we agree with the thrust of Westpac\u2019s analysis. We find it hard to believe students will not be smart enough to take advantage of the implicit arbitrage opportunity presented to them. They are supposed to be our best and brightest, after all.\u201D, or does he regard that as another statement of lurid self-interest, as compared with his policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f6937bb999a49049d24ef392672c7b3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I note a bit of jealousy, do I? As the member knows\u2014I think he is a former Treasury official\u2014the maximum arbitrage position is at the end of someone\u2019s study, and up until that point, of course, loans are already interest-free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e0f499f53c24039a32f1015b37783f8\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It may well be a joke to some political parties that the elderly do not receive the same degree of attention in this House, but I take offence at the continual belittling of the elderly people of New Zealand by comments such as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230a8db21f67949f4bc7840e204154154\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his intervention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d64209243c744ba93cf1ecb963826c0\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that one of the reasons that some have got their calculations wrong is that they have not been aware that under present policy there is already a partial interest write-off for those not in study, which was introduced in the 1998 Budget by the then Treasurer, the Rt Hon Winston Peters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccf99fb7ceef4618a98d221d3997815a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot remember the exact detail of which Budget it was in, but my understanding is that it actually occurred in 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d17630ff194e1e8890536980c620ff\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: It was in 1998.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431bf5fbfe4d4ce3ba5585f510a8f079\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the member\u2019s word as to the timing, but one of the reasons that a number of commentators have got it wrong is that they have not taken that and a number of other current Government policy factors into account, and we are quite happy to brief either Bill English or economists on those particular questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d84e1f0bbc614a7a83d90c2683b8fb74\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that in order to work, policies aimed at addressing student debt have to be balanced by a commitment to increasing access to student allowances, such as through the universal student living allowance advocated by the Green Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285ea57d2ae83468b84bbd65d510ca7a2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think we are making considerable progress with this particular policy. The policy that he has suggested would be even more regressive than the National Party\u2019s policy suggestions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221315b6a82f1e4807a69bd792d47d5606\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister consider, to reduce the chance of a student loan cost blowout being caused by students taking out bigger loans in the future, making student loans interest-free only for those who have successfully completed their course of study, so that there is no chance of people accessing the cheapest loans around without any intention of actually attending a course, let alone completing a degree; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec5f5ce6ae84483392e3899602b7678e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think that takes a fairly negative view of the majority of New Zealanders. There is not much point in someone getting a student loan for fees paid to a university if the person ends up having to pay it back. A maximum of $150 a week can be borrowed, as opposed to the $800. I would point out to the member that the people who take a very long time to pay off their loans are those who do lower-level courses and do not end up with the very high incomes that are being targeted by the persons opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e162c09c464e4043a5e04fbcb78afc2b\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister assure the House that this policy will not be accompanied by a secondary policy to tighten up the conditions of loan repayment so that what is given with one hand is rather stealthily taken back with the other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221021c1e05bc7460ab3e9906570773e86\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen no such proposals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235b665effa4240888432999259147bee\u0022\u003ETerrorist Groups\u2014New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022001226834e6347df857c2a26a0e2f377\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service: Is she aware of any terrorist groups operating within New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022904e771b06214c088c70ecea14a60357\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022904e771b06214c088c70ecea14a60357\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service):\u003C/span\u003E As the member is aware, I do not comment on operational activities of the Security Intelligence Service. As I said yesterday, every society has people from a range of backgrounds who are of interest to the authorities, but that is not to say that New Zealand is somehow under imminent threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a5da828570444828f0e30498a1ce362\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does it concern the Prime Minister that a world-renowned al-Qaeda expert, Dr Rohan Gunaratna, who happens to be the head of the International Centre for Political Violence and Terrorism Research, has spoken out to the effect that about 10 groups linked to international Islamic terrorist networks are operating out of New Zealand; does that not pose a great risk to this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257619c74a6124b0fa6f2348dc211cfde\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The annual report of the Security Intelligence Service last year, which got front-page treatment on the Dominion Post newspaper at least, referred to issues that the service had investigated over the previous year, which included apparent links between individuals in or from New Zealand and international terrorist activities, and also the people who sought to raise funds for such organisations. The service also stated that it assessed that there were individuals in or from New Zealand who support Islamic extremist causes. I repeat: that is something known to the service and publicly reported on. It is not to say that New Zealand is under imminent threat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eaf5512fab44c61a3e8acfc107aa76d\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that statements such as one made last Thursday that both \u201Cmoderate and militant\u201D Islamic groups \u201Cfit hand and glove everywhere they exist.\u201D smear all Muslims and incite religious division and distrust; does she agree with Dave Moskowitz, President\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab6aaeaa23149579646c861c54435b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am surprised you have allowed the member to go on for so long, because the Prime Minister is not responsible for anything but her own and her Ministers\u2019 speeches. That is my major point. More particularly, she just told us that she will not answer any of those questions anyway, because the matter happens to be within her portfolio and she leaves operational matters to the Security Intelligence Service. She is not responsible for the quote from that speech. Therefore, the member is merely asking for an opinion for which she cannot have any responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9865690e78471c84c6eaaac8bc5280\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. Yes, the Prime Minister has ministerial responsibility for the Security Intelligence Service only, so could the member please frame his question within those terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ad47631b721437eb2bd5abf1c15f59b\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received from the Security Intelligence Service any report relating to extremist activities that gives any credence to the statement made last Thursday that both \u201Cmoderate and militant\u201D Islamic groups \u201Cfit hand and glove everywhere they exist.\u201D; does that divert the Security Intelligence Service from its work and, instead, create religious mistrust and hatred\u2014in the words of Dave Moskowitz, President of Temple Sinai in Wellington, such statements are \u201Cracist, hateful, and driven by greed for political power\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c102e1bd5544f09dd5837fac699f1a\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, I have received no such advice, and it is no more fair to smear all Muslims because some people of that religion commit acts of criminal murderous violence than it would have been to smear all Irish people because of the acts of the IRA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b71c1d22c8544487a8111b89f3afdc3d\u0022\u003EHon Matt Robson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise the House what standard of proof would be required to establish that a group was carrying out terrorist activities in New Zealand; would it be higher than the proof given by the Rt Hon Winston Peters in the case of Omar Ali and Amer Salman?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221735f237c78d4c809f5327c3c7267fea\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The second part of the question is out of order. The Prime Minister can address the first part, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a006aa4d7a7c422a9b7e09a4919439cc\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: In order to suspect that someone is planning a terrorist attack, one would have to have some evidence of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec699fde046948e38d199d091da1a988\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the question of evidence, what connection does the Prime Minister have, as the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service, when she goes on to Apna FM, on 10 July, at a time when there is vehement abuse and a tirade going over the airwaves about the West and about this country, and appears smack in the middle of the programme; what sort of information is she privy to when she puts herself in that position, and is she aware and concerned that that same outfit will shortly, with its connections through Mirchee Television Network Ltd New Zealand, open up our airwaves to al-Jazeera, the unique Arab television and radio station that gets a direct line to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda\u2014does she know about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c07bc0c6767c463abace5c1c5d076d02\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I think I would have considerably better information than the member, who denounced the station as being Islamic, when I understand it is largely Hindi-speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bceb3d1e342d446e8084fe1aab0c67e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Hindi and Urdu are the same language. Let us have this Prime Minister be halfway informed about her portfolio. The second thing is: how many other radio stations are running Islamic prayers five times a day? So she is fooled again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226298b1c9b4b04fb88514e86e80c71070\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. That is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cda51b36d7cd4542bc4790d24cfef50a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is that the Prime Minister has clearly not given any kind of accurate answer, as I have proved two mistakes. Could we now have the honest answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e985a8e244624c8b87d59f502472a8a9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. The right honourable Prime Minister did address the question. The member may like to ask a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022847a8258ebbc4075869121d135eb42f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. With respect, I have proven categorically that the Prime Minister did not address the question at all. She made two palpable, demonstrable mistakes. Could we have an answer based on the original question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f67219c08b094ac0bc098a78674be597\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have ruled that the Prime Minister did address the question\u2014obviously not to the satisfaction of the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6c5f6af0ee54a9c9fa823586f8c3683\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can I just say, perhaps as a matter of information, that the Prime Minister did not address the question. She does not realise that in India Urdu is called Hindi, and Urdu and Hindi are the same language. Urdu is a Muslim language. So, if she tried to avoid answering the question by saying that the radio station was a Hindi-speaking station and therefore had nothing to do with Islam, that is absolutely wrong. Urdu and Hindi are the same thing, and Urdu is Islamic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1bfd3ad7c2346a9a933403e7b67b102\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member for his information, but I would note that inaccuracy is not a legitimate complaint by way of a point of order. The original ruling stands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e379f54c4bf4884935fb458996142fc\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. When I was speaking there was a reference to Pol Pot. I seek leave to table Hansard of December 1979 at page 4844, when Mr Peters was in the National Government, and where the Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs, David Thompson, explained that Government\u2019s support\u2014that is, the Government Winston Peters was a member of\u2014for what he called the Pol Pot regime, in answer to a question from Stan Rodger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb8f55fb8344236beb730a3f3e867bf\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7dcc337185d4cadb1edfa780fd110e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I do not oppose the tabling of that document, but I seek leave to table two documents that show effusive support of both Pol Pot and the Soviet Union\u2019s invasion of Afghanistan by this reformed man, Keith Locke, who wishes to excuse his past stupidity and idiocy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b000b47fd54e6baadcb3db90c38549\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? [Interruption] It relates\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022befb5fecfdac4fda9233751859fff243\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member says there is a document he will table that mentions Pol Pot. I challenge whether he will table such a document. Such a document does not exist, so how can he table it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2ab6abd290454495d7d6b2b227d8da\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his contribution. Is there any objection to the tabling of the document? Yes, there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218fc97b6aa73446aa25e208199cf1cf2\u0022\u003EStudent Loans\u2014Interest-free Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9f1b97e97834223a86be5ee975f529d\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her reported statement that the student loan policy she announced on 26 July had been properly costed and was affordable; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u00222558669668864b1b9d6ca4f5945cb089\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222558669668864b1b9d6ca4f5945cb089\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I believe that the policy is affordable and that the costings are based on reasonable assumptions over the forecast period. Labour believes that tackling student debt decisively is a top priority, and that is what the policy is about\u2014unlike National\u2019s rather mean one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237925cc58aa54ee88522eefa7c491add\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister asked Treasury to forecast the long-term fiscal impact of her Government\u2019s proposed interest-free student loan policy; if not, how can she assure this House and New Zealanders that her gift to students in this election year will not be a noose around the neck of hard-working taxpayers for years to come?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022064992913bfe40b189d2eee9a14ae96a\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is a Labour Party policy, not a Government one. Even the most expensive and ill-founded estimates of its cost are significantly less than what Dr Brash thinks he could spend on tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eb501c03d85486482c4b5a99e9769dd\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister seriously telling the House that her Government is so desperate for votes in election year\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ad9f0dad31541adaebcaeba9e93548f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to members that this is their last warning. I know it is the last day for question time, but the member is entitled to have his question heard in silence. The member will please start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30453e5f61140d3a707299f928b3ed2\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister asked Treasury to forecast the long-term fiscal impact of her Government\u2019s proposed interest-free student loan policy, or is she so desperate for votes in election year that the proposed, significant, new student loan policy will go to the public without any advice from Treasury, the Ministry of Education, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, or the Inland Revenue Department; and is this the standard of policy we can now expect from her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d271f6993e3464cad3fc03e7981dc64\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: If desperation for votes is measured by the amount of money that parties are prepared to chuck around, then the National Party wins that contest hands-down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f635c5dfeef435e9b78e4ed952a2f47\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister received any recent reports about the responsibilities of leadership in relation to costings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277b4977224ad4f4386230628f770631c\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, I did see an extraordinary reference to Dr Brash telling an economist that he had no command of the detail of National Party policy, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245296b27178a4c02a8ca1f240ea91f55\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Why will the Prime Minister not simply ask officials to cost the zero interest loans to students and the long-term implications; or is she not prepared to do that because she is scared of the results?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225506eeba16414c42a4800cfdca12ae50\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Labour may follow a different practice from those followed by National Party Governments and their allies in the past, but we do not expect officials to write Labour Party policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022367390ff9c844015b946e800f46cfa08\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: With regard to the costings of the Government\u2019s policy announcements, will the Prime Minister tell the House how many of the 50 percent of students who would become eligible for student allowances under another term of a Labour Government will be eligible for a full allowance, and how many of them will have to be satisfied with $10 or $20 a week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022388ec91461f744f8a957f0d0a591231e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It might be the last day for question time, but one would think that after 6 years everyone would know the rules. That question is a mile wide of the wicket, and it is a waste of the House\u2019s time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c126a8688f164aad9f4bf2041e9294e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It is because eligibility for borrowing is the difference between the actual student allowance paid and the $150 a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a05ac823f5ba4cab8da64c5607807c3b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Prime Minister please address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb40272bc664720a789ad07bc4d06a5\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, not all the students who have eligibility for an allowance will get a full one. What I can say is that the Labour Party\u2019s policy is immensely more affordable than paying a universal student allowance\u2014estimates of which come rather closer to the billion-dollar-a-year mark than the costings for this policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e1f0ef92e2420a84e3b3894c4650ec\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware of the predicted consequences of her Government\u2019s student loan policy\u2014the one not assessed by officials\u2014that would see $1.7 billion written off the Government\u2019s balance sheet on account of the loans already made, which is equivalent to some $400 for every man, woman, and child in the country; if she is not aware of that, what does that tell us about the dangers of making policy on the hoof? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89ab630e2c94d8485760fa779e970d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The member may well want to reflect on making policy on the hoof when he tries to reconcile his sad offering, due in a couple of weeks, with promises that every New Zealander would get a significant tax cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0fc05e5192491dab90ab0776386e23\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Prime Minister, in no sense, attempted to answer the question. I asked whether she was aware of the $1.7 billion to be written off the Crown balance sheet on account of her interest-free student loan policy. She did not answer that question, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227afb185bd22b4abe9a41bd995e1c96a1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The difficulty for the member is that by his adding the last bit to his question, technically the Prime Minister did address it. Maybe she would like to expand on it for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022495372d2a06e4c22a1efc3b348aaa211\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Of course I am aware that there are balance-sheet implications. But I am also aware that if the National Party is assuming that people will want to borrow a whole lot more under this policy, then one assumes that that party is also aware that its own tax policy, on the same assumption, could lead to more borrowing\u2014something that the National Party has not been very keen on emphasising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f1914191ae9d46de990fb987f85fd6b6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226fd9e34d09404d5197fc178815b45830\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fd9e34d09404d5197fc178815b45830\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I now seek leave to table this document from Keith Locke, which shows, clearly, that the Government at the time was not in support of Pol Pot, at all, but was seeking to give aid to the Kampuchean people, despite the nature of the Pol Pot regime, which is something totally different from what he told you when he sought leave in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281e4e6938754466e8477eb611b085a23\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ab3d5a143a4393849ef89c3ad9912d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the members both sit down. Leave has been sought to table a document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ceecb84a86f4ac29f6c9b3fee8724d7\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I am allowed to make a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ba2a6588a5443096f552d4d068e6c9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you please be quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcf409fca133441a8832b55826362be8\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I am allowed to make a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022709954b8b6b34426a325bccb8958cd05\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Would you please sit down. I will put the original seeking of leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022efbc0d08a8a64ee3b7876e179ee2adc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efbc0d08a8a64ee3b7876e179ee2adc4\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think it is wrong when a member seeks to table a document and misportrays the document that is to be tabled. This document clearly has David Thomson stating: \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s continued recognition of the Pol Pot regime\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb4856027f14663b26b36ea1b27b6da\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. If the member feels that another member has misled the House, there are other ways in which that matter can be addressed. I suggest that the member see me after the session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002284b08955d6bc4865b01c63626608b1a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284b08955d6bc4865b01c63626608b1a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I objected to the way you told us both to sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e48a3bf07d4cdcb79bc221a9eae837\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I am terribly sorry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0623baa02bf41d08b17f8f5b2e96ba6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0623baa02bf41d08b17f8f5b2e96ba6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Well, you should be. You are there to do your job properly. The fact is that if a member is seeking leave, he is entitled to be on his feet and not be interrupted by somebody who is grossly out of order. Next time, Madam Chair\u2014and I know that this Parliament has only a few days to go, but in the hope of improving Parliament before we rise\u2014perhaps you could stick to what the Standing Orders and prior Speakers\u2019 rulings state and not be so abrupt when some other party is at fault. That member should have been stopped in his tracks from the very moment he got to his feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222650ae34a48049049db1d039bfdb4b8f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member, but I was making my ruling. I did not need any further contribution to the debate. Can we please return to questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b190b02a15e4438a919fa5374d3b8c79\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022 data-id=\u00227eac54f81a894ecd9e6ce3c1eeb9cae2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227eac54f81a894ecd9e6ce3c1eeb9cae2\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I asked the Prime Minister whether she was aware of the $1.7 billion write-off required to the Crown\u2019s balance sheet on account of loans already made to students, as a consequence of her Government\u2019s announced policy of wiping out interest on those loans. She has not answered that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00227f1f3fb87298445f9b0de9271ade75be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f1f3fb87298445f9b0de9271ade75be\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The Prime Minister stated that she was aware that there were balance sheet implications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9343e8f413e40eeab4eea2d900cb869\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister did address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00228673ef05215643f6aca3d42eff1e9aa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228673ef05215643f6aca3d42eff1e9aa7\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think it is rather unfair that Mr Winston Peters and Mr Locke managed to interrupt the flow of this question with their valedictory-type performances. I think that if you had been able to concentrate on the whole issue you would have found that the Prime Minister has avoided answering a question. She may well have addressed it, but surely when we are talking about such a sizable sum\u2014such a big policy, such a flagship policy\u2014we would expect the Prime Minister leading the party promoting it to know the implications and be able to say simply \u201Cyes\u201D or \u201Cno\u201D to the figure Dr Brash raised. Clearly, the Prime Minister has no idea what is going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002267b26a8990124f29b5fb1d6c1d91eb0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267b26a8990124f29b5fb1d6c1d91eb0c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Given that the leader of the National Party has been reported as stating that he has no idea of the costings of the details of the policies announced by his colleagues\u2014and that was in the newspaper just last Sunday\u2014I see no reason why the member should expect the Prime Minister to have in front of her at this point the full details of balance sheet changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248dd69c2256e41a6ad926ce95b1fdd48\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ruling on the point of order, I did concentrate on the answer to the question and I was not distracted by the other members\u2019 points of order going back to a previous question. As the member who raised the original point of order knows, all that is required under our Standing Orders is to address the question; it is not necessary to have the answer satisfy those who asked the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022313985a7977347639da2d454dd82e1b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022313985a7977347639da2d454dd82e1b2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You may have noted that Mr Brownlee interjected continually through that point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6091525c0c84185b6b38c35b9b8ca39\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, I did not. I was concentrating on my own ruling. If he did, he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5dd5af9a574e25bf944b5c57aa89ab\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Let me assure you that he did so continuously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f59d8a9349419f9265cb6d6631a325\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because I did not hear it, I will just ask the member to refrain in future from commenting on rulings that are being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u0022654d6afa6fc042d2ab1fe330a9dfcd49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022654d6afa6fc042d2ab1fe330a9dfcd49\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. From where I am sitting, I could not hear what Dr Cullen said in his point of order. Could I ask him to repeat it, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ad283002e9b4b3e801e86ddd3597552\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is getting a little silly. Could we please move on to question No. 5 now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c2ed0a1641b4f849b27158d60abe24d\u0022\u003ENuclear-free Policy\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222568d68b8db545b9bc5eba36113077d2\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade: What reports, if any, has he received on changing New Zealand\u2019s nuclear-free policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8b6c3a1d84c4ae78f7a97c355387129\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8b6c3a1d84c4ae78f7a97c355387129\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a report in which a senior National MP asked United States political leaders for the United States\u2019 assistance to persuade New Zealanders to change our nuclear-free legislation. That senior National MP was Dr Lockwood Smith, and that request was made to United States senators in the presence of the Leader of the Opposition, Dr Don Brash, in the same meeting in which Dr Brash promised the senators that New Zealand\u2019s nuclear-free policy would be gone by lunchtime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226630d322578b46d3b5d3ef07bb4b2da8\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We challenge the Minister to table that transcript. We have challenged him repeatedly to table the full transcript, not just the little bits that his Labour Party lackeys passed on to him and that we are expected to take as gospel. Mr Goff should table the whole transcript.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299746a84b5bd40bb9a25f2460ad15816\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: At the end of this question, in response to that request, I will table the precise words that were said by Dr Lockwood Smith and the response made by the United States senators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277eb4c7cfd394658b56e2ad67645ecfa\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Before we ask any question in this House, we are expected to prove the veracity of the question being asked. Why has this Minister repeatedly been able to refer to comments provided to him by some little lackey from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, who has breached every protocol we might have in place, yet the Minister is not willing to provide the entire transcript of that meeting? If you are going to allow the Minister to engage in that sort of activity, I think the House will be in a dire state for many years to come, because it will mean that Government Ministers can simply stand up, lie through their back teeth, back it up with some scrappy bit of paper concocted in their own office, and expect the House to accept that. The whole transcript should be tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c869efe07a4aa5af75019a5a825813\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: That bluster, of course, is merely trying to divert the attention of the House and the public away from the essence of the question and the answer. The Minister is perfectly prepared to table the exact comments made by the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith in seeking United States funding to try to persuade New Zealanders to abandon their antinuclear policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298b27f1f6aa04ebf9e6d0bf94c591dd5\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a219a4dfdc4e2b8349e9ec1415abf4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it talking to the same point of order or a new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a87828829c84122b5dbe78a72a6f4f3\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It is exactly the same point of order. This relates to the requirement for questions to be authenticated. Under the Official Information Act, that Minister\u2019s ministry has released to me transcripts of everything I said to the senators, and there is nothing in what his ministry has released to me that indicates in any way what that Minister has claimed in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7798cf6ca8141488dec9f6c0fcecd22\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Talking further to the point of order\u2014and it was the point I was going to make before Dr Smith\u2019s intervention\u2014for 11 months Dr Smith has had the information from that meeting that Mr Brownlee wants. He has at no time indicated to me that he felt those comments were in any way inaccurate in terms of what he said at that meeting. He has the statement. Shortly, when question time resumes, I will tell the House precisely what he asked of the senators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220507074a52714ce3ad8777c4425384e3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank members. We will go back to the original point of order. Ruling on the point of order, I note that, as members know, answers do not need to be authenticated under our Standing Orders, but questions do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4e42b98cf5d42a5999db570ba8986d5\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise what the nature of the request was, and what the response to it was?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258582b539b264762864b0ef1f22a2b5b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I will quote precisely what Dr Smith said. The transcript states: \u201CDr Smith asked whether it would be worthwhile for a United States think tank to assist with a public campaign in New Zealand following the National Party study review.\u201D The National Party study review that he had been talking about was the review done by Wyatt Creech of the nuclear-free policy. The response from the leader of the delegation was: \u201C\u2026 that it was an internal issue for New Zealand, and as such it should be left to a New Zealand think tank. The United States should not involve itself in such a national issue.\u201D The importance of that answer is that even the United States Senate delegation recognised that Dr Lockwood Smith was being entirely inappropriate in asking the United States to support them, with the resources of a think tank, on something that is an internal matter for New Zealand. Apparently, not only do Dr Lockwood Smith and Dr Brash want the policy to be written in Washington but they want Washington to do their work for them in persuading public opinion in New Zealand, as well. That is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c19bfce9724c56a31d289ec00ccedb\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It might be helpful for the House if Mr Phil Goff could table the document now, so we could see it, in order to help with supplementary questions. It is plain that the ACT party has a clear policy on the visits of nuclear-powered warships, but I am confused, because the accusation from the Government was that Washington DC was writing the National Party policy and then funding it, and now Phil Goff is getting up and contradicting Trevor Mallard and saying that it refuses to do so. That is why I think it would be best if Phil Goff just tabled this document now, during the question, rather than at the end of this sequence of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b43ba0d7e54bcd98f2035b7a2694c5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member, but it is not for me to rule on that. It is for the Minister to decide when, and if, he wishes to table a document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220d010c930c64cefbb2e660f289cadb7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am just following on from what Mr Hide said. It is your role to make sure that question time is conducted in a reasonably orderly fashion. That was a very, very long answer from Phil Goff, and it sounded very much like the beginning of the post-election leadership battle in the Labour Party. It is interesting\u2014the front-benchers are laughing, but the back-benchers look terrified. It is only fair that you constrain the Minister. You have now ruled that he can talk any garbage he likes when it comes to an answer, does not have to verify anything, can twist any statement he likes, and can present the answer any way he likes. But he does not have carte blanche to give that sort of a lecture to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abe9093612d9426baedb49bf66bab2fb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has also made a lengthy presentation, and I appreciate him for that. But it is not for the Speaker to rule on the quality of answers, although I do note that both questions and answers have been getting longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce8bd3dbda1456fa1a05276832256b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister prepared to read out any disclaimer that came at that time from the Leader of the Opposition, seeing as he would have heard the suggestion\u2014a disclaimer as to the impropriety of such a suggestion, or even that it had been conceived of as appropriate in a country that is a self-governing democracy, and has been for a long time; could he please read out the disclaimer that surely must be in that transcript?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022244820c4d7d54e14ab1764c140c40326\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to disappoint the member. I read right through the report for a disclaimer from Dr Brash. Dr Brash never made any disclaimer about that improper suggestion from his foreign affairs spokesperson, unlike when he not only issued a disclaimer for but sacked Simon Power as the spokesperson on defence for his comments that New Zealand would do whatever Australia, the United Kingdom, or the United States wanted. As the member will appreciate, the difference between those two comments is that Simon Power was honest enough to make them publicly and Dr Lockwood Smith was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202556fc42f4c44c58958a2cd6b6da6c4\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade made Dr Smith aware of his reported comments, and has he disputed them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf03077519344d5b25c3599eed1d212\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, at the request of Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith his comments from the incident were written up for him and given to him, and to the best of my knowledge he has never sought to correct anything I quoted from him in the report or any of his other comments. He had the opportunity but he never chose to do so\u2014certainly not with me, and, I understand, not with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9b6ce079734afca7d2cca14b8e390c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I notice that Dr Lockwood Smith has been talking on his cellphone. I would just like an assurance that it was not an international call, just a local call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ea545efdb7421cb220c7dc79c51742\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207112814ef3e4247995400454dec116f\u0022\u003EHon Ken Shirley\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that New Zealand\u2019s so-called nuclear-free policy does not provide a legislative ban on nuclear electricity generation in New Zealand; and how does he reconcile our so-called comprehensive nuclear-free status with the fact that a mini nuclear reactor has been operating in a residential suburb in Upper Hutt\u2014on the old Tasman Vaccine Laboratory site\u2014since the 1960s and is still operating today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0ebbd100bb4372967eb4ee42c8b315\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The nuclear-free legislation that was passed by this House some two decades ago deals with the question of nuclear-armed and nuclear-propelled warships. There is no legislation, to the best of my knowledge, that prohibits a nuclear power plant, but no party in this House has ever been stupid enough to advocate that, unless the ACT party is doing that now, as its valedictory statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b5bbfb2ed85497bb670591d75961253\u0022\u003EStudent Loans\u2014Interest-free Loans\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289da8b4da4154c88bd20949183bf6fcf\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Was any advice sought by him from Treasury on the student loan policy announced on 26 July; if so, will he release that advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd3bddc291074faf8a01ee04f61d80d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd3bddc291074faf8a01ee04f61d80d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The student loan policy is Labour Party policy, not Government policy. As such, Treasury does not give advice on that policy. Prior to the policy being adopted, costings were done at my request in relation to the ongoing and uncompleted work referred to in the Budget documentation. I am aware that the information in relation to the Labour Party\u2019s policy has been released, to wide public acclaim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d99974eedba1462ea2860399f32a344b\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Will New Zealand, as per the requirements of the Financial Reporting Act, adopt the international accounting standards after 30 June 2007; if so, what impacts will this have on the valuation of New Zealand\u2019s net worth as a result of Labour\u2019s proposal to change student loans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227016a8b70d984b3dbb3aacb683c02f45\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We are getting into tricky territory between the Labour Party and the Government here. Of course, the Government has not produced estimates on that. I would assume that the impact on net worth would be negative. That shows the enormous danger of confusing an operating balance and net worth with the Government\u2019s cash position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022292efc66389142c0a4449205aeedc926\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that New Zealand\u2019s net worth will be reduced by approximately $1.7 billion, or $400 per person, after 30 June 2007, as a result of Labour\u2019s proposal to change the student loan policy, and what impact will this have on Labour\u2019s Budget pledge to reduce net debt to zero by 2007?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9e1b8c7ce340fb85a208d5d848449f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that at this point. If the member is confusing net worth with net debt and gross debt, he is showing a gross misunderstanding of the accounting principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d780be33d43d43e8b3db35bee3f1431b\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Did any of the costings or advice requested by the Minister on the student loans policy include projections of the effect that tax cuts such as the $3,000 tax-free amount, and the adjustments to the existing threshold proposed by United Future, would have on disposable incomes, and therefore, on potential loan repayment rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257369c0295d64ffcb8011471e5be0592\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not. The member, of course, has those costings. That runs into some billions of dollars a year, which would lead to a substantial rise in the Government\u2019s borrowing requirements, high interest rates, and therefore, if interest were still being applied to student loans, higher interest on student loans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc3644510cb04c108f62577f926711bc\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that New Zealand\u2019s net worth would be reduced by a further 25c for every dollar of every new student loan written on top of the $1.7 billion it would be required to write off on the existing loans due to Labour\u2019s proposal to change the student loans policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4cbc2d16b094711973ec267b6078b36\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not sought advice from Treasury, so I cannot confirm the numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293b55ba7d28948b5b46a8bf367a1bb40\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the previous answer, would it therefore surprise the Minister to know that most graduates would be better off under United Future\u2019s tax reduction policy than under Labour\u2019s zero rate student loan offer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227032e51d4405411baebe9d811aa34df6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, of course, on that basis they would be much better off if we scrapped taxation altogether and simply funded all expenditure out of borrowing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fd768bc50e648a4a838e736a345c1b8\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter I have written today to Kevin Brady, the Auditor-General, asking him to confirm that in fact, under the Financial Reporting Act, New Zealand will be required to adopt the international accounting standards, that New Zealand will be required to calculate fair value on the student loan portfolio, that that loss will be $1.7 billion, and that there will be an ongoing liability to all New Zealanders that will see fair value for every dollar reduced by 30 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229817ec5d58df4923961da15ba5e4c985\u0022\u003EResource Management Amendment Legislation\u2014\u201CPet Projects\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bce3df93fe064f68abf039a58373da71\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for the Environment: Does the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill create a \u201Cbackdoor for pet projects\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002271d21eec6d1840318258bc02ffb69bfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d21eec6d1840318258bc02ffb69bfe\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E No, the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill is about getting better decisions on resource consents and getting them faster; about improved processes for working with councils, especially on cross-boundary or complex resource consents; and New Zealand - wide consistency in consenting, planning, and environmental standards. It is certainly not about favouring special interests over and above the interests of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d3c95b9afaa4268b41fd834b3f8dbb0\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s statement last week that: \u201CIn essence, National\u2019s plan would allow a Government of the day to specify minimum standards for any development project, pylons, prisons, or motorways, and would give a developer an unstoppable green light to go ahead.\u201D, what is the difference between National\u2019s policy and Labour\u2019s leaked list of 39 fast-tracked major projects, including pylons, prisons, and motorways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcc3a4e0c6064f46b4a7a2402db78431\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer that better than in the words of the Otago Daily Times editorial on 29 July this year, part of which reads as follows: \u201CThe Government wants faster decision-making for resource consents, more power for local councils to work with developers to speed things along, and national guidelines to avoid the conflicting standards between regions. National wants to go much further\u2014too far, in fact. \u2026 Under National\u2019s proposals, we very much doubt whether, for example, the campaigns which succeeded in Lake Manapouri being saved from destruction, or Aramoana from smelter construction, would have been more than pipe dreams. National\u2019s proposals to scrap the inexpensive provision of legal aid for objectors and reintroduce security for costs from objectors are a bare-faced attempt to erase basic rights of dissent, while its measures intended to diminish the rights of local government in resource consent matters would actually extinguish a basic premise of the Act, which is that communities most affected by applications should have the principal say in decision-making.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f02848eb14c4b0d83ca216b61736ecc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That answer was too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d9ab64cabe04a47b7b985ed64d6c0d6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How many flip-flops has the Minister\u2019s Government done on the Resource Management Act, noting that in 1998 it described direct referral to the Environment Court as \u201Cevil and dangerous\u201D, but it is now included in its bill; noting that he claimed in February that removing de novo hearings in the Environment Court would reduce costs and delays, but now that has been abandoned; and noting that in 2000 the party opposed limited notification, but later adopted it; and is it not the truth that Labour has no idea how to try to reduce the costs, the uncertainties, and the delays of the Resource Management Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ee9bebf81074c0f94a32d4fff3df986\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The ministerial referral included in the bill reported back is quite different from the developer-driven referral that Dr Smith has always advocated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c3ae0d1fa274945b123f33a20dafd2d\u0022\u003EDavid Parker\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen with regard to community consultation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d48838c35c0e45d08d905b8b339218a5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report that National will scrap the environmental legal aid fund. That was Dr Donald Brash at the Local Government New Zealand annual conference. We know that that view is not shared by the Port Levy Environmental Protection Society, which received $29,565 last year from the environmental legal aid fund. Of course, the leader of the Port Levy Environmental Protection Society is none other than David Round, National\u2019s candidate for Christchurch East.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022633ed20ff1f7468582285bdea2c502b0\u0022\u003ELarry Baldock\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that proposals to reduce delays in the Resource Management Act, such as by enabling resource consent applicants to refuse further information requests from councils and having their consent accepted or rejected on the information provided, expanding the capacity of the Environment Court and councils to reject vexatious and frivolous objectors, and enabling an applicant to seek direct referral to the Environment Court for major consents that are likely to be appealed, regardless of income, are, by and large, in major part dealt with in the bill before the House this week and will be fixed by about lunchtime Thursday, and that those come from the National Party policy to change the Resource Management Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209e1c669097343f784647202af97caed\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can confirm those statements. I would like to take the opportunity to thank that member for his very positive contribution in the select committee and in this very good policy development that I consider is evolutionary, rather than revolutionary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca8159c04877413ea0ba1dc3e4a7b76d\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he exclude any representation of community, conservation, M\u0101ori, or recreational groups on the six reference groups set up to develop national infrastructure standards on pylons, power stations, roads, stormwater, telecommunications, and gas facilities, choosing instead to leave the job to the industries that want to build them, and to Government officials?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd95466461e443fcb0715002f4d2f954\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: As I think the member is aware from the news release from my colleague Minister Hobbs at 11.58 this morning, the status of those proposals is as scoping studies only. Those non-governmental organisations and the full community will have every opportunity to be involved in the development of any such national environmental standards or national policy statements should a decision be made to proceed with them in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e1ec35159440ae90b38003372c902e\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true, though, that once the reference groups have developed drafts, written submissions from the community will make little difference, given that there is no provision for public hearings or debate and that the judges of the submissions will be the officials who wrote the first draft?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b57ee9d8944dd899a44ebb3b7fd5df\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479b84c999704081ac6236d822b5ab7c\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is not the only difference between National and the \u201CLabour-Progressive-United\u201D Government on the Resource Management Act the fact that National is upfront about shutting out environment and the community, and that the Government wants to maintain a facade of consultation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d123b456d8684ca9b734ce2874fef97f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: No. I am sure that member is aware that these consultations have taken place within industry, with local government, with organisations such as the Law Society, and the Business Council for Sustainable Development, and are widely supported and greeted by them. [Interruption] If the member had read their letter he would find quite the contrary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229243950699ce46d78eb6faa1dfba3b23\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the press release of Mr David Benson-Pope on 14 February this year, saying that the de novo hearings would reduce costs and delays but that he subsequently had to abandon them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a507a71e46148e5b74df4c449ace152\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a789096ea93a4ba5b8e5769206f8a5f1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a number of documents. The first one is the incorporation document of the Port Levy Coastal and Marine Protection Society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f5adf5ded414ae28aaa97e15f209c36\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The second is a report from the Otago Daily Times editorial of 29 July 2005, entitled: \u201CIt\u2019s our environment\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc58d813b9ae404ca705bed899fe2f44\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6febec70f5f46ff860868665eb60895\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The third document is a column from the Nelson Mail dated 26 July, entitled: \u201CRMA shake-up would limit local input\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb26531d69aa41469a05a53bb16e470f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f81371870094b648c5668d9deb92802\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The next is an article from the New Zealand Herald under the name of Raewyn Peart, entitled: \u201CRMA plans an attack on rights. National\u2019s proposals to change the Act will cut people out of decision making\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f088c8d3f04d82a2278ba89e5ed585\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225336e8aedd684f14a83252dee483530d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I have two more documents. The first is a letter from the New Zealand Law Society, dated 1 August, in support of the changes proposed in the draft bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f6d0733cac4b359e26f351532953b3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The second document is a letter from the Business Council for Sustainable Development, which is generally very supportive of the same bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221dac28f0149b42cb9f067c0f8f87009b\u0022\u003EHealth\u2014Recent Developments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab21a2dc3a8d408aa24f4614093c23be\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What reports, if any, has she received on recent developments in the health sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0a47d903de6422d89a3d70607c7e35b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0a47d903de6422d89a3d70607c7e35b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a report from Counties Manukau District Health Board on its most recent achievements. This is an area of New Zealand with some of the highest health needs, and in this last year the district health board has provided mental health services for 18 percent more people, achieved an 11 percent reduction in acute admissions for children, enrolled over 6,500 in chronic care management and in Care Plus, delivered all three doses of meningococcal B vaccine to 90 percent of primary school - age children, and has spent less on management and administration than it did before it became a district health board, while at the same time achieving a 29.5 increase in medical staff, and a 16.8 percent increase in nursing staff. What does the National Party want to do about that? It wants to go back to the future and wreck all that progress, to pay for tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c35f164365d40be9f4a303e43028198\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has she seen on recent developments in the health sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c9188b4dea4435ac783dc4d104328a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I read a report in the New Zealand Herald last week that talked about rationalising small primary health organisations because they are inefficient. Yet the Counties Manukau district has several small primary health organisations, and they provide excellent examples of current primary health care policies and chronic care management programmes. Everybody knows that rationalisation is another name for cut-backs, and that is exactly what National promises to do so that it can pay for its tax cuts. National calls that choice. Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022909b6920cb1e49bbb9ddc1e6f8aa005d\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Does she deny the damning statement of the July 2005 New Zealand OECD report specifically relating to health, which states: \u201CAlthough it has long been assumed that an expansion of inputs would directly feed into a rise in outputs, it is now increasingly obvious that this assumption is false.\u201D, which sums up the waste, bureaucracy, and inefficiency under her watch over the last 5 years\u2014does she deny that report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d035a6e852c41aeba45fcf73ff08bf7\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e1248dc92b4c8981df239742b447c8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does one of the reports she has received on recent developments in the health sector include reference to the 1,329 people who died on hospital waiting lists last year because she and her administration could not get them an operation, or to the almost 2,700 who have died in the last 2 years, and in addition to the boast that we are at 54 percent of Australia\u2019s cost on pharmaceuticals and at one-third of the OECD\u2019s? Has she got those reports yet; if so, what will she do about them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc080aff6ae347e395e209118600a210\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: There is no such report that states that over 1,000 people died of conditions for which they were waiting for operations that they did not receive. In fact, that is palpably and demonstrably false. There is a report on people who died while they may well have been waiting to have their carpal tunnel fixed or their cataracts done. They may well have died in a car accident or of old age, but there is no such report that states that they died of the condition for which they were waiting for an operation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e89d4b566d7148cfa240165b1b895caf\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Australian Government has published a comprehensive and detailed plan outlining how it would respond in the event of a bird flu pandemic, and has allocated $156 million to bird flu preparations; why has her ministry still not published a similarly detailed plan outlining how New Zealand would cope in the event of a bird flu pandemic and, in particular, how the Government plans to plug gaps such as a lack of facilities to quarantine and isolate patients, a lack of laboratory surveillance to enable us to rapidly detect the virus, and a lack of preparedness in the primary health care sector generally and on how the ministry would resolve ethical issues such as the rationing of the Government\u2019s limited supplies of the antiviral drug Tamiflu?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286498af8bdef42c4bca91eeceafffb02\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That member has requested a briefing from the Ministry of Health, which is to be held at 1 o\u2019clock tomorrow, so she will be better informed about what New Zealand is doing, and we will certainly be able to show her the comparison between what New Zealand is doing and what Australia is planning to do. As I was at the meeting of health Ministers in Australia last week, I think I probably have a better idea as to how ready they are in comparison with New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224002edd492ec4adfbef9f7525d72b76f\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that the recent DigiPoll result showing that the majority of people believe doctors\u2019 fees have increased under Labour can be explained by the fact that there are over 1.2 million adults, many of them parents who are struggling with the costs of raising a family, who are paying in excess of $50 or $60 to visit the doctor or, even worse, who do not go because they cannot afford it; if so, does she believe New Zealanders might think differently if all families were targeted as a priority to get subsidies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226119ac0ebbcd488a869122a85057e16a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the member, and by July 2007, under this Labour Government, all New Zealanders will have universal access to affordable primary health care, something that National would get rid of. Unfortunately, DigiPoll surveyed everybody, not just those who are receiving subsidies now. It is not a very valid poll, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb99724ca1740639beecf5d24157e8c\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has the Minister heard of the way the Government\u2019s primary health care policy is working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261f0dc2d71b84725bff09f788ead1f33\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: We have many reports of how well the primary health care strategy is working in many different parts of New Zealand. In fact, I could tell members of different parts of New Zealand that are now addressing issues like diabetes and chronic conditions like cardiac conditions, cancer, and so on. We are starting to see some real progress. What does National want to do? It wants to get rid of it, to give less than 20 bucks a week in a tax cut to all New Zealanders, it says. Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4673878f26b4b4bbea4ca57bd6b81c7\u0022\u003EStudent Loans\u2014Interest-free Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad14da4951284684ad2eeeecf08d6641\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by the statement he made earlier this year that major changes in student loan policies were only likely to happen \u201Cif the country struck oil, and we were guaranteed economic security for the next 50 years\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220e74b2bb44db4adc994e6dc3f3347030\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e74b2bb44db4adc994e6dc3f3347030\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E In the same interview, I also said that Labour had a commitment to keep improving things. I think last week\u2019s announcement that we will scrap interest on student loans makes good on that commitment. I think that many of those responsible for the 620,000 hits on the Labour website agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd09492052f844768fd656eee8b37727\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the real reason he changed his mind was that Labour was behind in the polls, and that he and Helen Clark have rolled Dr Cullen and decided to abandon Labour\u2019s claims to fiscal credibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022face3338591949f0b266971d84116138\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No to all of that. I would like to add that one of the people who has been leading the policy in this area, because of his concerns for the long-term economy and the community as a result of the overbearing loan scheme approach, has been Dr Cullen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249daef2d1be64799a77d36c05913f7d8\u0022\u003ENanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any alternative proposals to change student loan repayment policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec9d78678f947e68d7cb000e4c47c39\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen an approach. It is a rather unusual one. What it says is that the higher one\u2019s income, the lower one\u2019s effective interest rate is. That means that someone on an income of $100,000 or $200,000 has a much lower effective interest rate than a mum at home or a poor Pacific Island family on a very low income. I think that approach, from Bill English, is disgraceful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022385007e016a94479afa105ad22c24d06\u0022\u003EDeborah Coddington\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that Mr English actually paraphrased, and that what the Minister really said was: \u201Cif the country struck oil, and we were guaranteed economic security for the next 50 years, or we\u2019re down in the polls 2 months out from an election\u201D, and that that is the real reason for this election bribe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da41469989b34cb2aa8848257482f504\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, the decisions on this were made when Labour was ahead in the polls, but that is an irrelevant point. At the moment, a person who is jumping before the ship goes down is hardly the one to talk about poll ratings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a92b244b52fd4a6ab1ef6d59e05cbdfe\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that only 25 percent of borrowers have a loan balance of over $20,000, but that that 25 percent of borrowers will get 80 percent of the proceeds of a multibillion-dollar interest write-off; how does he justify channelling 80 percent of the multibillion-dollar interest-rate write-off to just 25 percent of the borrowers\u2014those with the biggest debts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022766d8e5dc18b4afeb903ea961696b8bf\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am slightly bemused by that question. The National Party, of course, excludes from its policy mums at home looking after their kids. Their loan balances will go up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022507bec023e694957818f0cec0c07feb6\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: They aren\u2019t paying interest now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c9d063381e448fa95aa7c538d0e198\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: They are paying interest. That shows, again, that Dr Brash does not know the detail of his own policy. Under the National policy, a woman at home with kids has her balance going up, while the person with income of $100,000 has a highly discounted interest rate. Dr Brash should get on top of the detail of his own policy; showing his ignorance in the House is not good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f498e94992478b8955e4c41d64198b\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The student loan scheme provides that, for mothers at home, their real loan remains constant. Can the Minister confirm that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cf5e2f6d8494040b4cd739497a60928\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. Would the member like to rephrase it as a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbefe3eb1ebc44dc98c52e5777ff4bf4\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister asserted something that is factually wrong. I challenge that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ee5a0c1b9a64100acc1493a013aa68a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a debatable issue. If the member would like to ask a question, then the Minister should respond to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223057d2d349434982a77bfcf06a9edff7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I made a complaint about the way you were conducting the House earlier today, and I am making another complaint now. A member cannot rise on a point of order and ask a question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ba8965210ed42a5857773041a1dda02\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I entirely agree with the member, but I was saying that that was not a point of order, and that if he would like to ask a question he should ask one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e94e389d199b4cc287fae05036471e22\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The second thing is that points of order are always heard in silence. We cannot have this sham as we close for the election\u2014it will be a big enough sham after, when these people go from here. My real point is that if Dr Brash was going to make a point in his point of order, it was that the thing was consumer price indexed\u2014that is all it means. Dr Brash has got it wrong again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d7ef2344554db1b0cbda6dd2782931\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It might just be a matter of advice to the member opposite, but the way to ask a question is to stand up, say \u201CMadam Speaker,\u201D then say \u201Csupplementary question\u201D, and maybe the member should do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cad7c4c19c8945e5a398718adf2a0922\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please sit down. That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244783ef242d74af7a489f66d7b6e7a49\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister of Education explain to the House how he justifies the following figures: a borrower with a balance of $15,000, according to his calculator, will benefit by $4,600 over the life of the loan, but a borrower with a balance of $40,000 will benefit by 10 times as much? Why does he sit here shedding crocodile tears for people on low incomes, when the vast bulk of the benefit of this policy goes to people with loans over $50,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212ac207646a14b9db6f872fbc777db78\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: As I pointed out to the member before, and as the member should know, the people who are best off under this policy are, in fact, the people who are at home\u2014the people whose loan balances would keep on going up and up while they stayed at home looking after their kids. I do not know why the member hates women at home so much, but what I do want to say to that member is that Labour\u2019s policy is based on people paying back what they borrowed; National\u2019s policy is based on giving extra discounts to the highest-income earners in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e952e0e55a9648c2a8936ce56bd632c5\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: If the member describes National\u2019s policy as extra discounts to people on the highest incomes, why will someone with a loan of $60,000 benefit, according to his calculator, by $92,800 over the life of this policy, whereas someone with the average balance will benefit by about one-twentieth of that amount?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d6d995884664ecda4f5234881629628\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: What is clearly obvious is that people who have lower incomes and higher loan balances benefit more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022197c3aadb4f046d2b740f032264e54aa\u0022\u003EImmigration, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070f2469bee04c64838f46af02593018\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in her Minister of Immigration; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd4189e840d140938587cb54c15e030a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd4189e840d140938587cb54c15e030a\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022296f105bdfce431bbb2361b7747e4b70\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If that is the case, what was wrong with the last Minister of Immigration, because she was a hard-working, conscientious Minister as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b61aa6a68744fea181ecf0307d3783\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: That is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e4942f7166d495ca02907ee2d7638f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, she was! I will ask the Prime Minister two questions, then. If that is the case, one, why did she fire Lianne Dalziel\u2014a hard-working, conscientious Minister\u2014if she was not proved to be incompetent; and, two, why is the Prime Minister keeping this man, who has just written to me saying: \u201CDon\u2019t write to me; write to the department.\u201D, his having, of course, got up in this House countless times to say: \u201CPlease give me the information.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c8da3fd731f4f4589a29af41dd6b471\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware that as recently as only 25 July the member had a letter from the Associate Minister of Immigration informing him that we appreciated his sending in his 22 cases and additional information on one individual, and that, of those cases, the department was already aware of nine, and we were following up the other cases that the member had been kind enough to bring to our attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6fd75a5c34941839a1e0ce7ebe7a4f3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: If this Minister is a hard-working, diligent, conscientious, capable Minister, what has happened to the family of 16, all of whose families were deconstructed in the Middle East, then reconstructed falsely here; and why does it take months to find out what would take any investigator about 3 hours to find out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ada955d4923c4db7b3915f7673c32eab\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, I cannot comment on the details of cases like that. I simply do not have the details in front of me. I have no idea whether they are true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eef34184e952403c9fc556db1fc1e90d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Swain\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm the importance of checking details accurately when information comes across, given that the last time that member raised a particular person\u2019s name in this Parliament, he went out for a terrorist and came back with a mechanic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f05ae019b1b4d45b67776a31cf83cba\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, it is important to get the facts right, because people\u2019s status in New Zealand hangs on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd22312591054a80b29893e88299c8a9\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of the Minister of Immigration, why should the people of New Zealand have any confidence in this Government, which always lets in the bad ones but makes the good ones wait in the line for years on end?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf375863948c4d12ac73e4af2b392e2b\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: My recollection, from answering questions along these lines for some time, is that a number of the people we have had to act against were people admitted during that member\u2019s time in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b51a6cb6be34ee4b7b2e69ea951d832\u0022\u003ETreaty of Waitangi Claims\u2014Deadline\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee28dd6009543428db8da566193232e\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: Does he stand by the reported statement of then Minister in Charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, Hon Margaret Wilson, in 2002, that National\u2019s policy of putting a time limit on Treaty of Waitangi claims was out of touch and ignored the complexity of the treaty settlement process; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u00222f47e3c0806941a19ee5277ea06fbb2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f47e3c0806941a19ee5277ea06fbb2d\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: Yes, and I note that the former Minister\u2019s comment was in response to National\u2019s policy that was to have a cut-off date by the end of 2006, and a target of 2008 for the settlement of all claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5d8f9b6e4d49cea0c217dd720e4d6d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that under the Labour Party in Government there will be no restriction on how long claims take to settle, and no end in sight for the treaty grievance industry; if not, can he tell us what dates it has in mind for settling such grievances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dacfb171f4ae408483521bdcd3d84b60\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: We have been foreshadowing for some time that we will need to set a cut-off date, because the historical claims process can never be completed if there is an open-ended entry point. I suggest that the member wait for the announcement on 21 August to know what the policy is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d43d214d7f3423ba4460319b976a24c\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has the Minister seen about time limits on Treaty of Waitangi settlement deadlines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6e19e394f064fae8fa9af7bb899e641\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: I note that National\u2019s 2005 treaty policy now sets down 2010 as being the date for total completion of historical Treaty of Waitangi grievance settlement claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d199aa7fd354c51b33699d1869b1699\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister rule out that the 21 August announcement he just mentioned will set settlement date limits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a025f6a09e4a849b5ab2f60188d362\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait and see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa2450a4ede4ee69b77dfce7f090b06\u0022\u003EStephen Franks\u003C/span\u003E: What weight does the Minister give to warnings in the House against time limits for treaty settlements, complaints that ACT member Derek Quigley\u2019s bill in 1998 brought them into the \u201Cgames of party politics\u201D, and claims that \u201C\u2026 trying to set deadlines in legislation \u2026 is exactly the wrong approach. Artificial deadlines carved in stone will not work. They are a falsehood \u2026 I will bet that member the best bottle of Nelson wine \u2026 that if we go down this track, a future Parliament will be undoing those deadlines \u2026\u201D; and would the Minister care to repeat with me Dr Nick Smith\u2019s bet that this will not be the only piece of ACT policy that Labour and National will eventually adopt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff0a0c8b88074b30aa01f13a5913aea8\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: I give no weight to those claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d05dc23c65c14f61b3b0f19d88221674\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that the statement by the Prime Minister: \u201COur treaty obligations extend beyond the settlements for historic claims\u2014the closing of the huge gaps which have developed in almost every field between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101.\u201D means that the public simply could not accept that Labour would ever enforce a closure date for the settlement process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ce111c56a3f4aae8f7c873691e47874\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, the member will have to wait and see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b4fb5d6c7a4b20a57f1ebc979326ad\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have any reports as to who gave the most legs to the policy about which the National Party is currently complaining, and who gave Doug Graham a knighthood for his work on the Treaty of Waitangi industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f242c5fd503e432cb3b63b39e7d0c088\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You may well be indulging Mr Peters, given that it is the last day, but I think it is only fair to say that the National Party is firm in its policy that there will be closure on these matters, but is very proud to be promoting the idea that New Zealand should settle treaty grievances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212adc243d78347cb905a5f170d4079f6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure where all that takes us, but that is not a point of order, actually. [Interruption] Yes, but I also note that the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations is not responsible for the awarding of honours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0d89146f01c4294ac6b3045f4470f76\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I know that, but I am asking whether he has received any reports, as Minister, of the National Party\u2019s involvement in the Waitangi industry per se, and any reports as to how that actually graduated into giving Doug Graham a knighthood for it\u2014contrary to the words they speak nowadays?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f6a901104a4ea38794d30c33b15661\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The reports that I have heard have come from the National Party itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002207d840f8bfdd4e3b9da2be9d8eceb13f\u0022\u003EHome Ownership\u2014Government Initiatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aac370774f74eaca004acdcaa319ee5\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What initiatives, if any, have been put in place to assist New Zealanders into a secure and affordable home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a93207b600654ae4bf701cb3bfb4cad4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a93207b600654ae4bf701cb3bfb4cad4\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E The good news is that 57,000 New Zealand households with 78,000 children are an average of $35 per week better off as a result of the income-related rents policy. This has contributed directly to the reduction in poverty levels in this country. Two thousand five hundred families have had their homes modernised, made more healthy, or improved, and another 2,300 families have received an energy efficiency retrofit. We have also launched Welcome Home Loans to help Kiwis buy their first house. Over 1,000 households have been helped into their own homes at this pilot stage. That will be expanded to 5,000 homes next year, with another 5,000 to 8,000 first home buyers per year to be assisted through the new KiwiSaver programme. It is good news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d04370e4f8f24f419a00d86317f21321\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied that the current number of State houses is sufficient to meet the need of the community for affordable, low-cost, and quality housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fbbbbc20e684934928c3b1dd997ee07\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: No, not yet. That is why we have been providing for an additional 5,700 State houses since 1999, and why we have budgeted for another 3,288 houses over the next 4 years. We had to do this, because 13,000 houses were sold during the 1990s to provide at least $2 billion for the National Party to pay for its latest round of tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227133dfb8710b4d58b1a4b74e02ef4a87\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: What responses has he seen to the Government\u2019s housing initiatives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c158eb5f22674b7da8e34aaa3640eba4\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Most people, such as all church leaders, have been very clear in their support of the Government\u2019s housing policies. However, one group stands out, because it has labelled income-related rents as a complete disaster; it has rejected the idea of KiwiSaver; it has said, through its leader, Dr Don Brash, that New Zealanders would rather rent than own a home, so it rejects home ownership; and it has also said through its spokesperson on housing that it would sell houses to speculators if it had a chance. That is the National Party, which sold $2 billion worth of State houses and will do so again if it gets a chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d6fb3dd32794e0f946e26f0bdaa1484\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u002223152efe412f4627ae42f1f88cd08f6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223152efe412f4627ae42f1f88cd08f6e\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table the relevant pages of the July 2005 OECD survey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220463a33e50154fe6858e41a18d90d5d8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227691e3675eed4ab6a42efe25b01f7592\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f7600ad4cc74448b5a982f0c277ee8d\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022 data-id=\u00225f45618f7c744ae4bf4505392ed9629f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f45618f7c744ae4bf4505392ed9629f\u0022\u003EHon ROGER SOWRY (National):\u003C/span\u003E The time has come for me to say my last words in this Chamber. It is fitting, I think, that I say them immediately following question time, because question time is still one of the most robust parts of this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EIn fact, I can well remember my first parliamentary question, written for me by the research unit and delivered to me. With much excitement I rang home and alerted my family to the fact that I was about to ask a question and that they should listen on the radio. The question was to the Hon Denis Marshall, the Minister of Conservation at the time. It was my maiden question, the House was quiet, and I stood and asked the Minister what he was doing to keep rats off Kapiti Island. The House remained silent, and Mike Moore, who was then the Leader of the Opposition, leaned forward and in a loud voice shouted: \u201CStopping the member from visiting!\u201D. To laughter that I thought at the time was far more vigorous from my side than that of the Opposition, I learnt an important lesson: never ask a patsy question. I am proud of my record during my first 3 years in Parliament in that I asked the least number of questions as a Government back-bencher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003ELike many here, I worked my way through the party organisation for a nomination to a seat and a place in this Parliament. I have had the privilege to serve as both a constituency member of Parliament and a list member, and I have had the opportunity over the last 15 years to serve on the Government back bench, on the whips\u2019 desk as junior and senior whip, as a Minister, as the Leader of the House, as a minority Government manager, as deputy leader of the National Party, and then as an Opposition back-bencher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EThroughout it all, I have had a great opportunity to work with some outstanding and dedicated staff. At the risk of leaving someone out, I would like to thank in particular Susan Palmer, my secretary here in Parliament, who has worked for me for 12 of those 15 years, and Sue Reid, my constituency office secretary, who has worked for me for 14\u00BD of those 15 years. They both deserve medals. I thank my ministerial office staff, many of whom are here in the Chamber today: Sarah Boyle, who came to me from the Clerk\u2019s Office, who has worked for me in a number of capacities, and who has been an outstanding friend; and Belinda Milnes, Susanne Joyce, Vanessa Simpson, Kathleen Lambert, Celia Roundtree, Debbie Sturmfels, Louise Dooley, and Kathy Kerr, all of whom worked for me over a period of time in Parliament. I think back on those days with fondness; we were, I believe, a great team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EIn my electorate I have been blessed with a wonderful electorate and campaign organisation, and I want especially to thank today my electorate chairmen over my period of time in Parliament, David Gibbons, Vaughan Chetwynd, Alan Wells, Eric McCabe, and Ted Cobb\u2014Ted in particular has done a sterling job for the last 6 years. I thank my campaign chairs: Jack Wilson, my first ever campaign chair, who taught me a lot; Trevor Roberts, who has campaigned with me for three elections; Paula Tessarero; and Lorraine Pollark. To them I owe a great deal of thanks. There are many others, too many to name\u2014people who have worked in my organisations, my branch committees, and my electorates, who have been branch chairs and treasurers, who have run the membership organisation, and who have done all the tasks that have needed to be done. One simply cannot function in this House without their support, and I thank them all very, very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EFifteen years ago, when I delivered my maiden speech, my oldest daughter, Katherine, was 1 year old. Katherine, Erica, David, and Phillipa have known nothing other than politics in their father\u2019s life. My wife, Shirley, like all parliamentarians\u2019 spouses, has carried the responsibility of\u2014and cared for\u2014our family all too often on her own. The hours of work are long; it is not always easy, and I thank her and the family for all their huge support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EI have enjoyed my time in Parliament, but I have to say that I miss the pre-MMP debating chamber. I miss the tactics. I miss being able to go into the caucus and spring urgency on it. I miss the voting in the lobbies and the comradeship that developed by our going through the lobbies. I miss the debates in which both sides of the House used to participate, rather than one side participate and the other side move closure motions. I miss the speeches from the heart, and sometimes even from the head, that were given in this Chamber\u2014speeches that were not read from some research unit paper but that were delivered with passion and with feeling. I miss all those things and find today\u2019s Chamber somewhat formulaic. The House today is far more representative than the House I walked into 15 years ago, but it has far less flavour in it. I loved the ebb and flow of this Chamber; it was unpredictable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EI remember\u2014and some of my colleagues will remember well\u2014my speaking on a welfare bill from the Government whip\u2019s desk. It was a small piece of legislation in the early 1990s that was going to stop the payment of invalids benefits to people who were on an invalids benefit and overseas for more than 4 weeks. The Labour spokesperson at the time was Clive Matthewson. He had put up an amendment in the Committee stage that allowed disabled athletes to go overseas and spend a longer period of time there, because they might be training. Neroli Fairhall was the example given in the Chamber during the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EDuring the Committee stage in those days, a speech was 10 minutes. I was giving a damn good speech and was 5 minutes into why we were not going to buckle on that legislation\u2014why our ideas were pure and right and correct\u2014when I noticed that Don McKinnon had slid out of the seat in front of me and Michael Cullen, the Opposition Leader of the House, had slid out from the other side. About 5 minutes into my speech Tony Ryall passed me a note that said we were accepting the Matthewson amendment. Hansard will show that in the first 5 minutes of my speech I totally opposed the amendment, and in the second 5 minutes I gave all the reasons why we would then be voting for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EThe biggest opportunity I have had in politics was given to me by Jim Bolger. It was a huge privilege being the Minister of Social Welfare, and I cannot leave here without saying two things about that role. The first concerns the Family Start programme, of which I am immensely proud. It is an outstanding programme, it is a programme that is world-class and world-leading, and it is a programme that Labour has been too slow in expanding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EThe second concerns the people I met when I first became Minister of Social Welfare, who not only are the real heroes in the welfare area but are, I think, often unsung, unseen, and unsupported\u2014the group of New Zealanders who are foster parents. They do an extraordinary amount of good work in mending the minds and bodies of young people, and in helping young people who are at risk. Foster parents are some of our greatest assets in this country. I found that the time when I was Minister of Social Welfare was a very humbling experience, and my time in dealing with foster parents was something that not only made me humble but made me very proud to be a New Zealander. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EI could not leave here today without reference to the brat pack: Bill English, Nick Smith, Tony Ryall, and myself. I do not know how we got the name \u201Cbrat pack\u201D. I see that several people have claimed to have given it to us, the latest claimant being Michael Laws. All I can say to that is that success has many fathers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EWe were four of a big intake. We came in here in 1990 as part of the largest new intake of MPs this country had ever seen. We became great friends. We were the youngest of that intake, and we have been able to offer, I think, great support to each other. I certainly have received a huge amount of support from Bill, Nick, and Tony. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EMore importantly, our wives and families are here today. We have holidayed together. We have had outstanding times together. It has not been all politics; there has been a lot of fun. You could not ask in any job or any career to find such great friends. We do not agree on everything. I wish we had; it would have boosted the numbers a lot, particularly on the conscience votes on my side. I have been bench mates with all three of them at various times. In any work environment anyone would count themselves privileged, lucky, and honoured to be able to work with those three colleagues and to have such friends as Bill, Tony, Nick, and their families. I certainly count myself as being very fortunate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a87c178-9f60-439e-aa9b-0f1336c37ea9\u0022\u003EFinally today I want to wish Don Brash, the National Party caucus, and Otaki candidate Nathan Guy all the very best for a successful election. I came here 15 years ago excited about playing a role in a National Government. I leave here older, wiser, balder, and heavier, but I leave here excited about the prospect of a National Government, and excited about some new challenges with Arthritis New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022 data-id=\u002224af93741aa040ca8ce79c5b7645eef0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224af93741aa040ca8ce79c5b7645eef0\u0022\u003EJANET MACKEY (Labour\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Nearly 12 years ago the people of Gisborne elected me to represent them in this Parliament. I woke up the next morning, and thought: \u201CJanet, what on earth have you done? You\u2019ve conned them all; you\u2019ve persuaded them you know how to be an MP.\u201D Shortly afterwards I gave my maiden speech. I still felt like an impostor, because I just did not feel as I thought an MP should feel. I was very proud to have a seat in this House, but I was sure my tenure would be brief as a result of the good people of Gisborne coming to their senses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EToday I rise to give my valedictory speech after 12 years of representing not only the people of Gisborne and the East Coast but also those of Wairoa, Maraek\u0101kaho, Crownthorpe, \u014Chope, \u014Cp\u014Dtiki, T\u0101neatua, Whakat\u0101ne, Ruat\u014Dria, and a hundred other small communities. And I have to admit today that every 3 years I have woken up on the morning after the election, and thought: \u201CJanet, what on earth have you done?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003E My first months in Parliament were an absolute nightmare. Richard Prebble may have had trouble finding furniture; I had trouble finding my office. I have no sense of direction\u2014for those who do not know me well\u2014and, coming from Gisborne, I found this place an absolute labyrinth. It was no better in the electorate. On several occasions I have had to phone colleagues from neighbouring electorates to rescue me from God knows where in the middle of Hawke\u2019s Bay. Thank you, Rick Barker. I was invited several years ago to Crownthorpe School, a delightful small school whose location I am still not 100 percent sure of. I accepted the invitation. I left Wellington early on Friday morning and found the school four Fridays later. The next week, driving to Wellington from Gisborne, I apparently took a wrong turn somewhere around Taihape and I drove past Crownthorpe School seven times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EParliament in 1993 was full of formidable and daunting people. The first time I went to get into a lift in the Beehive, David Lange, Jonathan Hunt, and Koro W\u0113tere preceded me. These are not big lifts. I got in, the doors tried to close, and the buzzer sounded to say that we were terminally overloaded. David Lange suggested that it would be very helpful if I got out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003ELast week Richard Prebble acknowledged David in his valedictory speech, and I want to do the same. I had the unique experience, for a lowly back-bencher, of sitting beside David on the back benches shortly before his retirement. He was a wonderful bench mate, in so far as he kept me amused for the whole of question time with his interjections. I wish I had written them down. I remember congratulating David on the birth of his daughter Edith. I said: \u201CWhy have you called her Edith? Is it after Edith Piaf, \u2018The Little Sparrow\u2019?\u201D. He said, in that wonderful voice of his: \u201CNo, it\u2019s Edith Lange, the little kerer\u016B\u201D. I hope Edith does not hear this. He was also extremely irritating in that if I left my cryptic crossword unattended for more than a minute he would complete it by the time I got back, leaving me feeling utterly inadequate. Shortly before he left Parliament I was able to seize the moment. David went out. He left his cryptic crossword on the desk, with two clues still unanswered. I summoned up every ounce of intellectual energy I possessed and I finished those two outstanding clues. I was surprised that David did not immediately pick that I was the intellectual giant who had finished his crossword, but after a while he did look at me and give me a couple of grunts. Over the years I have decided to interpret that as extremely high praise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EBut there was also the David Lange who proved to me that he was generous to a fault. Shortly before nominations for the Gisborne seat were called in 1992, I rang David with the news that the local law society, which had bankrupted my ex-husband, was now pursuing me for my house. David\u2019s immediate response was to pay the law society and annul the bankruptcy. I declined his offer, but I have never forgotten it. He continued to assist me with advice as I met the local law society in the District Court and then in the High Court. Shortly before the election I received notice that the law society was pursuing me to the Court of Appeal. I was, of course, unable to defend myself in that court, and I could not afford a lawyer. David\u2019s advice was: \u201CStall them, Janet.\u201D, and I did. Three weeks after I was elected to this Parliament, the society withdrew that application. I wish David and his family well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EWhen I arrived in Parliament, I was a single parent. If Muriel Newman were here, I am sure I would be able to hear her grinding her teeth, and I am sure that Larry Baldock is sending a quick one up for my poor, fatherless household. I stood for the seat under first past the post, and, although the electorate was large by first-past-the-post standards, I could still get home for dinner most nights when I was in the electorate. That is no longer the case under MMP. Looking back, I wonder where I ever found both the nerve to stand and the energy to do the job. I had a big and marginal electorate that required not only hours of work but also hours of driving. I had small children living at home with a housekeeper during the week, and on the weekends I was both mum and dad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity to thank my children, Moana, Erin, and T\u016Brei, for the good humour with which they have accepted\u2014and, in one case, imitated\u2014my choice of career. They have always supported me in my work. They have propped me up at times when I was flagging. What amazes me is that they have all turned out to be such nice people. They have grown up while I have been in this Parliament. T\u016Brei is off to Cuba after this election\u2014and anyone who knows T\u016Brei will not be surprised by that. Erin is now a wonderfully competent chef working in Wellington, and Moana will be the best MP the East Coast electorate has ever had. Can I say that that is just fine by me, because I still intend to claim the credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EIn 1993 I was a wee bit of an outsider. I was a single parent and I lost my job when I announced that I was standing for Parliament. So for a total of 8 months the children and I were very grateful for the domestic purposes benefit. It did mean, however, that I had no choice but to come first on the night, and winning the seat on election night with a majority of 1,900 votes was my second proudest moment. My proudest was being the first general seat Labour MP ever to win the East Coast booths, and I thank Ng\u0101ti Porou and the people of the East Coast communities for the unflagging support they have given me and the children for 12 years. That night my campaign manager thought that winning the first booth returned was the most momentous thing, and he has called me \u201Cthe member for St Mary\u2019s Hall\u201D ever since. Thank you, Bevan, for your valuable contribution, which has lent much to the past 12 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EIn 1996 I was really guaranteed a hiding to nothing. Under MMP, the seat had expanded to take in every farmer from Hawke\u2019s Bay to \u014Cp\u014Dtiki. I was predicted to lose on the night by approximately 5,000 votes. At 1 a.m. on election night the vote finally came in. My mum, who had stayed in Auckland because she could not bear to watch me lose, rang when the final vote was announced. \u201COh, Jan,\u201D she said, \u201Cyou\u2019ve won.\u201D Mothers say things occasionally that are very obvious. Then she said: \u201CYou know, dear, you were such a difficult wee girl, but I think you\u2019re going to turn out all right.\u201D I had won two elections, I was 42 years old, and my mother was Irish. Mum died just weeks before Moana entered Parliament. I wish she could be here this evening; she would be so relieved that I am finally going to get a proper job, albeit as a publican. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EI have tried over the years to deliver a good service across a vast electorate. I have four offices, and there have been years when I have paid for extra offices myself. I pay tribute to all the staff who have struggled on less than shoestring budgets in my electorate offices to provide a great service to my constituents. To Peta in Whakat\u0101ne, to Lynda and formerly Di and Renee in \u014Cp\u014Dtiki, to Sue in Gisborne, and Maxine and Lee who preceded her, to Sonya, Denise, and Nigel in Wairoa: thank you all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EUnder MMP my electorate has continued to grow like Topsy. It now includes the whole of Whakat\u0101ne, \u014Chope, \u014Cp\u014Dtiki, the entire East Coast and south towards Hawke\u2019s Bay. One of the great mysteries of the workings of the Parliamentary Service is the determination that rural MPs who drive 60,000 kilometres a year should receive 19c a kilometre for providing and using their own vehicle to do their job, yet an urban MP who drives less than 5,000 kilometres a year, for some reason, receives 96c a kilometre. I have always hoped that somebody would be able to explain to me before I go why this should be so, but nobody has as yet. Nothing will change the fact that it has cost me a considerable proportion of my income to provide my own vehicle and drive it, but I hope that my raising the issue here this afternoon may lead to a change for other rural MPs and for those who follow me. It seems to be a failure of Parliament\u2019s administration that it just does not recognise that rural seats in New Zealand can be enormous, yet a cornerstone of our political system is that all people should have access to their elected representative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EOver the years I have developed a very rewarding relationship with the farming communities I inherited under MMP. I remember the first time a farmer contacted me. It was about 6 o\u2019clock in the morning\u2014as they do. The voice on the end of the phone said: \u201CI suppose you\u2019re not even out of bed yet, even though half the day\u2019s gone.\u201D That was my introduction to telephone calls from farmers. They always ring me at 6 o\u2019clock in the morning and I always return the call at 10.30 at night. Most of the contact I have had from farmers has not been about access issues or the Kyoto Protocol. It has always been about the school bus, about the health system, or about the risk of losing the second classroom in their two-classroom school building\u2014and it is hard to believe that the Ministry of Education would leave any school in New Zealand with one room, but it used to. Farmers have an extraordinary sense of responsibility to their communities, and I have learnt to admire them and respect them. In fact, when I talk to farmers, I always get great pleasure from discussing with them the parallels and the similarities between farmers and the Labour Party. At the end of the day we are both paralysed unless we form a collective. I look forward to continuing my relationship with the farming community in the electorate, albeit through a slightly different channel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EI have done a number of things in my time here, some big, some small, all of which have given me great satisfaction. In 1999 I chaired the review of firearms legislation, and as a committee we travelled the country, hearing 6,000 submissions from firearms owners. I think I am probably the only select committee chair to have ever been roundly told off for calling a public meeting during the roar. I decided that the further south we headed, the more sensible were the attitudes and arguments against gun registration, although I have to say that the elderly gentleman in Dunedin who confided to us that he had built a cannon and was keeping it in his basement caused us all a wee bit of a worry. But I was pleased that my caucus accepted, as did others, the committee\u2019s unexpected recommendation, and another costly and inevitably ineffective bureaucracy was avoided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EWriting a rural education policy recognising the unique challenges faced by my little schools was, for me, immensely satisfying. For so many years in New Zealand we have had a policy of one-size-fits-all, whether it be for small rural schools or for their larger urban cousins. Singling out the issues that made life difficult and often impossible for small one and two teacher schools was very satisfying, and I thank all the wee schools in my electorate, which were so much a part of the development of that policy and so supportive of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EFinally, persuading a Minister of Transport to allow the New Zealand Coastguard to claim back the road-user charge it paid on petrol and use it in saving lives for us on the water, has made a real difference to a voluntary organisation that has to fund-raise for the hundreds and thousands of dollars it costs it to provide us with a vital service. Thank you, Mark Gosche. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EPerhaps the thing that makes me most proud is looking out of my window and seeing new life in the provinces. Six years ago people were moving out of Gisborne in droves. Today they are breaking down the doors to get in. Six years of attention to, and investment in, the provinces has given us a new lease on life, new growth, new jobs, new businesses, new faces in the street, and new children in the classrooms. I want to acknowledge the work this Government has done, and also the work Jim Anderton has done, in helping us to bring about an enormous regional revival. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EThere are so many thanks owed. To my children, to whom I owe so much, and to Robb, who is such a doer. If a hoarding needs to go up, you do not make a note of it; you go out the door and you put it up. Thank you, Robb, for everything. He makes sure I eat, he makes sure I rest, and he makes sure I take time to have fun. Thanks, too, to my sister, Lynore, and Graeme. After working for my entire parliamentary career for Mark Gosche and Richard Northey, they have now moved to T\u0101neatua, where they can work for Moana. To my friends and party folk in the electorate\u2014there are too many of you to name. But to Pat and to Norman, I have to say a special thanks. We have been working on campaigns together since the 1980s, and you are the only two people I know who can make the worst part of election campaigns fun. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003ETo Status Taxis drivers, my Wellington social life\u2014you have provided me with a level of service, at times, that has gone way beyond the call of duty. I am going to miss travelling with you enormously. To lobbyists who approached me in my first year in Parliament\u2014one of them on my first day in Parliament\u2014and who today, I am pleased to say, are my friends. To Mark Unsworth, who arrived in my office with a carton of Cocoa Pops for my son in 1993, and to Tony O\u2019Brien from Sky, known in Gisborne as \u201Cthe man from Sky\u201D. We have had a lot of fun over the years and I look forward to continuing our friendships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003ETo the security staff and the messengers, and in particular to Gray\u2019s mum, who has baked me date and lemon slice for years\u2014thank you. To the people who have worked in my office, including in 1993 the amazing Raewyn, who I employed after she worked for Hamish MacIntyre. To this day I have no idea how Raewyn ever persuaded me to go with her to Cuba Mall, where we ended up in Roger\u2019s Tattoo Parlour, but I still bear the scars. I will never forget Raewyn sitting there, observing the damage being done, and she said to me: \u201CHamish MacIntyre used to take me to prayer meetings.\u201D To Adrienne, who worked in my office and who, in true Kiwi tradition, 5 years\u2019 later ended up employing my daughter in her restaurant, thank you; and to Wendy, my current parliamentary secretary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003ETo the people who have made my coffee, cooked my food, and cleaned my parliamentary office I say thank you, but in particular I want to thank our amazing select committee clerks. I do want to say here, in their support, that the new idea that our committees should lose all historical knowledge from one Parliament to the next because of a new rule that will force them to work on a different committee every 3 years, would have to be one of the daftest ideas I have ever heard of. I hope that those who return after the election will support the select committee staff in making sure it does not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003ETo colleagues and friends from all parties, I wish you well in the next Parliament, whatever its make-up, and it is with a little sadness that I leave you all to run the country on your own. But I would ask you to remember that this is the seat of democracy. Democracy is something we talk so much about, but I was taught that democracy requires tolerance towards different political beliefs. A little more tolerance and a little less personal attack in this Chamber may elevate Parliament and its members in the eyes and in the hearts of the people we work for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EBut my biggest thanks goes to the people of the East Coast electorate who have shown so much confidence in me and have been so extraordinarily kind to me and my children. When I was first elected I wrote in a column that I was sorry that I had not mowed my lawns, but that they would be mowed and property values would go back up. Erin and T\u016Brei rang me from home and said: \u201CPlease don\u2019t do that again, mum. There are six men out front mowing your lawns.\u201D Somebody continued to mow my lawns for a very long time. To this day I am not certain who it was, but I have my suspicions. One summer I set about painting my large two-storey house. A constant stream of men in overalls came through the front gate telling me I could not possibly paint it myself. I came home one weekend to find it had been done. I have been hugged in the supermarket by complete strangers and then asked to wait there while they got their mother who was in the next aisle, because she would like to hug me too. But best of all they voted for me, and without them none of this would have happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acb6a053-bcf3-4936-8684-af4d6876983d\u0022\u003EIt has been a privilege to serve the people of the East Coast in this Parliament. It has been the best of times and the worst of times, and if I had the chance to go back and do it again, with a little tweaking, yes I would. It has been an honour and a joy. Thank you all. Ka kite an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022 data-id=\u002283773706ef4b474fa1380bf5ac9c87ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283773706ef4b474fa1380bf5ac9c87ce\u0022\u003EMARK PECK (Labour\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Today I make my last speech to this House as a member of Parliament, and can I say it is probably about 100 years too early. Tomorrow I commence a new journey, with no idea of where it will lead me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EMy father encouraged me into a life of public service. He encouraged me both in his deeds as a parish priest and in discussions with me as I grew up. As I listened and learned, I developed a passion for helping people. I wanted to change the world, even at a very young age, and as time went on I pursued interests that eventually led to my being elected to Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EBut getting here was no plain sailing. John Husband will be known to many in this Chamber. He is a Southland artist and musician, and was, in 1993, the host of a popular radio talkback programme on Invercargill\u2019s Foveaux Radio. I know that the Rt Hon Helen Clark certainly spoke to him on a regular basis. There was one occasion in 1993 when he uttered across the air for all to hear: \u201CThe estuary will freeze over before Mark Peck wins Invercargill.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EWell, I happened to hear that too, so what to do? I travelled to Riverton\u2014I was going out to Riverton Hospital to say goodbye to some of my union members\u2014and I put in his box on my rather large calling card, which was really large so that the senior citizens could read it, the words: \u201CWatch the estuary freeze over in November. Get your skates on special from The Warehouse.\u201D I left that in his mailbox. That became a theme of my election campaign in 1993, and especially so when John Husband was chairing those meetings. But he was right. The last time Labour had held the Invercargill seat was in 1972. Prior to that the last time it had been won by a Labour member was in 1935. One could have put up a swede with a hat on it in Invercargill, and National supporters would have voted for it! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003ENot only that but I had qualities that would be unattractive to a conservative electorate\u2014and I use \u201Cconservative\u201D in a generous way, because some of the conservative values held by people in provincial New Zealand are actually rather good values that people should adopt. I was a trade union official. I was not a Southlander. In fact, I was a goddam Yankee from Kentucky. I might have been more endearing if I had been what a good friend of mine calls \u201Ca Dixiecrat\u201D\u2014namely, a southern American Democrat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EBut what John Husband and others had not reckoned on was the incredible mood shift that was occurring amongst decent people who were concerned that the economic experiment the nation had been undergoing for more than a decade by 1993 had seriously damaged Invercargill and Southland. They had been promised a decent society. There were no longer any slogans that could explain away the high levels of unemployment, the closure of business, the decline in population, the increase in lawlessness, and the decline in social services. There was no way of explaining away why our senior citizens should be punished by having their pensions reduced at a time in their lives when they needed economic security as they never had, and when that security was at risk. People had not reckoned on a little person like me, frankly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI was totally driven by a childhood dream. My dream was awakened by my childhood experiences. I was a child living on the Mason-Dixon Line\u2014for those who do not know what the Mason-Dixon Line is, it was the dividing line between the northern and southern states of America during the civil war. I lived there during the time of the civil rights upheaval in the United States. It was the time of President Kennedy, my personal boyhood hero, and Martin Luther King, the sensible voice of the civil rights movement. It was a time of bussing black kids to white folks\u2019 schools. It was a time of violence towards blacks. I will never forget the bombing of the Alabama Sunday school where four little children lost their lives. The next Sunday, my father led a march through Maysville in Kentucky, attended by our local congregation and those people in the black community who had the courage to front up. I will never forget it. The town was lined with the good folk of Maysville who shouted abuse at those of us who dared to stand up for the black people. I was 8 years old. I knew even then that racism and injustice were wrong. Maybe I could not put a name to them, but I knew what they were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EThose early childhood days of mine made me more determined than ever that if I could ever use the talents I possessed to do good for people, then I would. So with fire in my belly, and a small team of activists, we set about doing the unthinkable\u2014winning the Invercargill seat for Labour. And we did. My very first duty was to deliver a pair of plastic ice skates to John Husband on the Monday morning. I suppose I was destined to be an MP. My name is wonderfully suited to politics\u2014Mark Peck MP. I am going to patent it. It might be a nice little earner after Parliament. I will still identify my golf ball, because I play a little bit of competitive golf, with the initials MP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI really must say thank you to the people of Invercargill for their support of and trust in me to be their member of Parliament for the last 12 years. I always felt very humbled on election night. Public office is held at the pleasure of the people. They bestow that awesome responsibility critically, and they judge it critically. I hope that when the ledger is finally totted up, I am found to have been their good and faithful servant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EInvercargill has come a long way since 1993. When I first came into Parliament, people were saying: \u201CLast out, please turn out the lights.\u201D I am proud of what Invercargill is now. It has a thriving student population, house prices are up, we have almost full employment, and we have a new hospital\u2014I will say more about that later. Coopers Corner is, at last, being fixed. We have new, regenerated schools\u2014I will say more about that, too\u2014and a vibrant economy. The airport is being upgraded, and I tell Tim Shadbolt to get his head out of the sand if he thinks that is guilt money. That is good money. It is about providing an opportunity for our city, and he should welcome it, not be angry about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EWhat has pleased me more has been to see the diversification in Invercargill. Yes, it will always have agriculture as its base, and as long as it is economically feasible to do so, aluminium will be produced. But in recent years we have seen a move into smart technology, value-adds, tourism, and niche products. That did not happen by accident. It happened as a result of a Government that said to the regions: \u201CYou matter.\u201D In Southland, Topoclimate was the thing that gave hope to people that the regions mattered once more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EThose of us who are constituency MPs will have gained real enjoyment out of helping people with their problems and dealing with what on occasions can be seen to be inflexible bureaucracies. On a lighter note, some of the most blessed people come to see us. One gentleman who came to my office genuinely believed I could fix his cataracts. A lovely old lady who used to come and see me told me, quite seriously and quite often, that she was the Queen\u2019s sister. That was wonderful, because I always knew that on any occasion when we had a serious citywide problem we would get the help of her sister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EThe change that really appeals to me, though, is our new hospital. I know the effort that went into getting that hospital, and I know that the negotiations with Treasury were extremely raw. I want to thank Dennis Cairns for refusing to accept second best. He took on the battle, and the hospital in Invercargill now is a compliment to him and his team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EWhat has pleased me even more than that over the last 6 years is the change in areas of social justice. The removal of the Employment Contracts Act and its replacement with fair labour laws, the restoration of the pension and its future-proofing, the re-establishment of an apprenticeship system, and the targeting of assistance for families through the tax system have all brought about substantial relief and assistance to the people who need it most. I spoke to one young mother the other day who told me that as a result of the Working for Families package she can now take time off to stay at home with her children. Her income is actually better through working fewer hours, and she is investing that time in looking after her children. Surely that has to be good, if we are looking at social investment for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003ENow I want to talk about the schools\u2019 review. That is probably the single issue that has driven me from this Parliament 99 years earlier than I wanted to go. I want to say something about that review. I went around those schools 3 years before the review took place and said to them that they should look now at what economies of scale they could make. One did not need to be a rocket scientist to know that if a school had a roll of 100, or just over 100, it was not going to survive for terribly much longer. It is difficult to persuade people to negotiate away their own jobs, so nothing happened. There is no easy way to close schools. Everybody is against it. It is the reverse of motherhood and apple pie. But it was the right thing to do. Even in this, my last hour in this House, I say that it was the right thing to do. For Invercargill to have a solid schools network, rationalisation had to be made. The results I am getting from the people who talk to me now tell me that we have strong schools that are working well. If I am the sacrifice for that, so be it. History will judge that issue better than the petty politics that preceded it, and I stand firm that that was the right thing to do in Invercargill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI want to mention two issues that stand out for me as a member of Parliament. Without going on about all the years in which I did this and did that, I want to say that two issues were important to me. The first was mental health. Shortly after I arrived in Parliament there was an armed offenders incident at H and J\u2019s Outdoor World. A man called Eric Gellatly held up the shop and threatened to kill anybody who tried to get him. That incident ended with Eric being shot dead by the police armed offenders squad. Eric was mentally ill. His family had tried to get assistance for him, as had the people who were working with him, but to no avail. The snap debate that followed in Parliament ended with mental health going to the top of the policy agenda. From that came the Mason inquiry, and from that came ring-fenced funding, which meant that health boards could not siphon that money off into other areas of their operation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI am confident, as a result of that, that Eric Gellatley\u2019s death was not in vain. There will always be incidents in mental health. No Minister of Health and no politician will ever be able to stand in this House and say that people will not take their own lives, because of course they will. That is the nature of the illness. But I am confident that Parliament did its duty on that occasion. Even though it might have been dragged, kicking and screaming, into the process of doing it, Parliament did its duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the Pardon for Soldiers of the Great War Act\u2014legislation that I championed. New Zealand is the first jurisdiction in the world to deal with the stain of dishonour that is visited on the families of those soldiers, and I am proud of that. Campaigns are under way now in Canada and the UK to similarly remove the stain from the families whose loved ones were executed during World War I. Some have said that that bill revisited history and put the norms that we understand now on the situation that existed back then. I disagree. The campaign was about exposing the awful reality that those soldiers faced in that particular war and their frailty as human beings. It was about setting that right and giving those families that live with this now, today, some serenity. Later on this year the Prime Minister will be presenting medals to those families whose loved ones were executed during World War I. I acknowledge the role of Dr Aaron Fox, who has managed to contact the next of kin of all those soldiers. I have seen the effect that that Act has had on the lives of two of the families in particular, and I know that the Act matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI want to say something about race relations, and as an American I think I am entitled to do so. If we listened to the debate in New Zealand, we would think our race relations in New Zealand were bad. I say poppycock to that. New Zealand should start to celebrate its diversity. I have had enough of those politicians who come in here and say that our race relations are bad. What is bad is a nation that has reserves for its Indians. What is bad is a nation that institutionalises racism against blacks. What is bad is a nation that is only now pursuing the lynchings of decades ago. It is time that this House stopped the phoney debate on race relations and celebrated its diversity as a nation. I hope that future generations of politicians will lower the tone of this debate in the House and let us get on as a multicultural nation and celebrate our diversity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI can see the whip moving. I am just about out of time, but I am not finished and I will finish soon. I want to spend a moment thanking some of my activists. I acknowledge two who are now deceased\u2014Danny Cairns and Maurice McGowan. I visited big Danny Cairns; he was a huge man. He gave me a cuddle days before he died. He had just had an argument with his boys about mowing the lawns. He said to me: \u201CMark, so long as I have strength, I\u2019m going to mow those lawns, because I love the smell of cut grass.\u201D I will never forget him. I will never forget Maurice McGowan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge Noel Valentine, who will be listening to this speech at 283 Ness Street in Invercargill. Noel has been my mentor since I have been a member of Parliament. I know that he is listening to this debate today, and he was the last candidate who stood against Ralph Hanan in 1966. Noel was not one to tell me what I wanted to hear. Noel would always tell it like it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI thank my electorate staff: Judy Christie, who no longer works with me, John Watson, Stacy Dow, and Nicola McLaughlin. They have managed to get me in the right place at the right time, and, God knows, on some occasions that has been a challenge. I thank my parliamentary staff: Kay Martin, Trish McLean, Helen Toner, and Lorraine Griffiths. I particularly thank Helen, who has come back to work with me since the birth of her son. Helen has been able to work with me at a time when I have undergone some enormous change in my life, and I thank her for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI thank the select committee staff: the wonderful people I have worked with such as Julian Kersey, Matthew Louwrens, Graham Hill, Michelle Malyon, and Paul\u2014I am terribly sorry I have forgotten his name, but I am feeling a little nervous just now. I particularly thank Anthony Flux in the Parliamentary Library, who worked me through my economics assignments. The messengers have been really good to me at a time in my life when I have been a little down; they have been there and have made me feel good. And I thank the Status Taxis drivers, as Janet Mackey did\u2014I never graduated to Crown cars\u2014for the way they looked after me, too. Rest assured, I will use their services every time I am back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EI arrived here in 1993 in a daze. I had to pinch myself to remind myself that I was a member of Parliament. Twelve years later I leave. I no longer have to pinch myself. I know that I am a politician. The question is whether I leave here bitter and resentful, or whether I leave here with some hope for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EOnly a few short weeks ago I would have said that I leave here bitter and resentful. The most important question that ever gets asked around the time that jobs are being given out is: \u201CWhy not me?\u201D In my case, it was never answered in the affirmative. I could never accept that it was my own behaviour that caused me to miss out on those jobs. I became so obsessed with my own defects of character that on 12 January this year I nearly killed myself. I faced a serious personal crisis, and I was given no serenity to deal with that personal crisis, as there were considerable rumours around here. I knew that there could, and would, be mischief done to me. So I made a full disclosure and I told my story. Although I might have been a bit discomfited in the process of doing so, I gave others hope. Alcoholism affects many families in this country. For an MP to stand up and say: \u201CI\u2019m an alcoholic, and I have a problem, and I am dealing with it.\u201D, is something I am proud of. I also want to say that I have been overwhelmed by the messages of support and good wishes. I thank all those who have taken the opportunity to contact me. I wish them and their families all the best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EThe Chinese symbol for crisis and opportunity is the same. The crisis I have suffered has given me an opportunity to sort my life out, not by denying my past but by cleaning up the wreckage of the past, making amends, and moving forward. I am indebted to Trevor Grice and the people at the Capri clinic for the help they have given me during a very difficult period of my life. I was going to talk a lot about rehab, but I want to say one thing. It is a bit rich to expect families to deal with rehabilitation on their own. At that time they need a break from their family member, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003ENow I want to say a few things to my family. They are here today in the gallery. To Jenny, Christopher, and Andrew, you are the most amazing children, you have done so well so early in your lives, and I love you all. To Stuart, who cannot be here today, you are a father-in-law\u2019s dream, mate. I thank you, and I wish you and Jenny all the best for your future. To Margaret, we are still together, Margaret, against all the odds. We got through it, and we are still here, and I love you dearly. To my granddaughter, Lara, who, is in the audience today as well, there will come a time when you will say to me: \u201CGrandad, what was it like to be an MP?\u201D. I want to say, Lara, that it is a privilege, a great pleasure, and a dream come true. I want you to live your dreams, too. Would I encourage my children or my grandchildren to go into politics? You bet I would. It is time to go. There is one good thing about me going. It will be the first time since 1972 that the next member for Invercargill is slightly more than 5 foot 3\u00BC, believe it or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276e4b8b7-c205-49d8-a21e-5d7a3ddf1330\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002221250f7989604d3bb800672420c3c001\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a859f6854df45ea975d35935421929f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister, 2 August\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee559e754f3d4b2eb4718d79a301547a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee559e754f3d4b2eb4718d79a301547a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to table a piece from a reporting cable that I indicated I would table during question time today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3f8c95f35cc4273b1e3dbb5bc0a1245\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228af96cb6dd2548f299ae17045985fce0\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000378\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022 data-id=\u00228072de055bf94f24bba7b45295049b35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228072de055bf94f24bba7b45295049b35\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This is a moment of exquisitely divergent emotions for me. On the one hand, I am deeply saddened to be leaving this place and the many friends I have made here. On the other hand, I am elated to have the freedom to be a normal human being again. I am really looking forward to being able to spend some quality time with my partner, Sue, and our daughter Ysabella. She is my first, and I am assured, only child, and she turned 18 months old yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4e89db10e624a2db2d3c89ca9191c7f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: And she\u2019s beautiful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8a24ba4fd346d0bc2259bfb784dbf1\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: And she is beautiful\u2014just like her father, obviously! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EWhat a privilege it has been to be a member of Parliament, and I mean that in both senses. Obviously, we lead lives of considerable privilege in this House, but it is also an absolute privilege for me to have been able to serve my community here. I thank all the members of the Green Party who have supported me in becoming a member of Parliament. They put their trust in me. In particular, I thank all the members of the Kaikoura Greens. I cannot possibly mention them all, but I want particularly to mention Alison and Norman Fletcher and Sally Atkinson, who led a tireless team for me. Without their support and love I would simply not be here. Thank you all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EWhat an amazing, wonderful, life-changing experience it has been in this House\u20146 years to treasure for the rest of my life. It reminds me of when I was first shoulder-tapped to become a candidate in the Kaikoura electorate in 1996. I clearly remember telling Danna Glendining that she \u201Chad to be bloody joking\u201D\u2014and here I am. At that time there was absolutely no way I wanted to become a member of Parliament. I could not have thought of anything worse. But when Danna Glendining and my ex-wife Marg ganged up on me, I did what all men do when they are ganged up on by two women: I capitulated. I thought it was easier to be an MP than to stand up against two women and have them on my back. So I am here now, and I am about to go. I have been wondering how people will remember me, how I will be remembered by my colleagues here in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282c5b18316b4feea11e2fa1cbce7131\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Tall, dark, and handsome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e41b33ca1b449ba8bd3f491bdc3d7d\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Tall, dark, handsome, and young! I have wondered how I will be perceived by the wider public. My ego wants me to be remembered for the good things I have done\u2014for saving the world, and all those things. Perhaps I did not quite achieve that, but I did achieve a few things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI am proud to have initiated the inquiry into organic agriculture by the Primary Production Committee. As a consequence we now have national standards for organics. We have funded the organic sector strategy, and I think I was the person who actually brought organics into the mainstream in this country. I certainly introduced it to this House, and although I was probably the butt of a few jokes in the early days, I think it is now reasonably widely accepted that organics is here for the long haul and is not something to be scoffed at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI would also like to be remembered as somebody with a passion for biosecurity. I brought out into the open the problems we have with sea container inspections. I spent a lot of time campaigning against the aerial spraying of the painted apple moth in Auckland. But I think that the most famous insect I brought to this House was the glassy-winged sharpshooter, which my colleague Clayton Cosgrove always referred to as the \u201Cglassy-eyed shitshoveller\u201D. That shows how much he knows about biosecurity. Never mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EFundamentally, though, I suppose I would like to be remembered in this House for being a hard-working, intelligent, sensible, and general all-round good guy. But the reality is that I will not be. I will be remembered, I suspect, for my decision to stand down from the select committee inquiry into the scampi industry. The reason I stood down was that I perceived there was going to be a conflict of interest, because I had established a personal relationship with a lawyer who was appearing on behalf of one of the submitters to the inquiry. That decision, I thought at the time, was reasonably newsworthy. I thought that the Marlborough Express might have run something about it on about page 5. Well, it probably did run something, but what really blew me out of the water was that not only was I banner headlines in all the newspapers but we led the television news, as well. I was gobsmacked. I really had no idea that the decision was going to be so important to so many people. Maybe it was just a slow news day that day. I suspect that was more likely the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EPerhaps the headline that has stuck most in my mind, though, is one that Richard Prebble coined here in the House and that the Press in Christchurch picked up on. It came out the following day with this big banner headline: \u201CSex for questions scandal\u201D. I read that, and I thought: \u201CGod! That\u2019s terrible! Sex for questions scandal.\u201D, and then I saw pictures of me and Sue underneath and I thought: \u201CGod! Moi? Sex scandal?\u201D. Richard Prebble is not here today but I hope he is listening. I say to Richard that, in case he had not noticed, Sue is young, beautiful, and highly intelligent. And I\u2014well, I am not any of those, actually. Even my kindest friends would probably say that I am middle-aged, overweight, bald, and seriously boring. So Richard, that was not a scandal; that was a bloody miracle. But I knew I had chosen the right woman a few days later when Sue and I were walking on the travelator over to Bowen House and Richard was walking the other way. Sue and Richard had never met, so I introduced them. Sue said to Richard: \u201CThank you, Richard, for making me famous.\u201D We do not often see him gobsmacked and at a loss for words, but he did not know what to say. He sort of backed off down the corridor; he literally did not say anything. As he went around the corner Sue chased after him, and said: \u201CBut watch out for my father, because he still wants to kill you!\u201D. That is my girl! I knew I had made the right choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003ESo that was the scampi scandal. I know I can joke about it now, but it was a pretty difficult time in my life. It was a fairly rich experience in the rich tapestry of life\u2014a great one for finding out who one\u2019s friends are and, perhaps more pertinently, who one\u2019s friends are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI would particularly like to thank all of the members of the Primary Production Committee, whom I will name: David Carter, Doug Woolerton, Clayton Cosgrove, Gerry Eckhoff, Dover Samuels, Phil Heatley, Janet Mackey, and Harry Duynhoven. I know I was the butt of quite a few jokes for you guys at the time, but the reality was that you kept me sane during that period. It was a very tough time for me, and you were there for me. I will never forget that. Thank you. In fact, working for the Primary Production Committee was always a highlight for me. I enjoyed the work, I enjoyed the people, and I enjoyed the committee staff. Bob Bunch, Mary Hay, Steven Mitchell: my thanks to you. I will miss you guys. It was a great time. It was the highlight of my time in Parliament, in many ways, working in that select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I also have to say that I am convinced you got parts of the scampi inquiry badly wrong. I believe you shot the messenger and allowed the real culprits to get away with perpetrating one of the biggest frauds and one of the gravest injustices in New Zealand history. I really struggle with the suggestion from some people that there was no evidence of wrongdoing. There clearly was. Affidavits are sworn evidence. Affidavits have convicted murderers in the past. I agree with the argument that if there is a whole sequence of events, and if we go through the sequence of events and find a causal relationship between each event, then we can prove that the beginning finished up at the outcome. If there is a break in the chain, then we cannot prove guilt. But there is another way of looking at evidence and that is to say that it is like a jigsaw puzzle. If we have enough of the pieces and they all interlink, even though a few pieces may be missing, we can still see the overall picture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EIn this case, I believe that there is a very clear picture of premeditated offending. And please do not forget the evidence of those people who made submissions to the Primary Production Committee but who, because they were alleging criminal behaviour, had their evidence returned to them. It was returned because it was outside the scope of the inquiry\u2014I accept that. But one cannot then say there was no evidence. There was a considerable amount of evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EIf the next Government, whichever colour it may be, wants to follow up on the scampi issue\u2014and I really hope it does, because that would restore some of my faith in the political system\u2014I suggest that a good place to start would be with Helen Cull QC. She was the lawyer who convened the State Services Commission inquiry that ran in parallel with the Primary Production Committee one. She got it right. She knows pretty much what happened, but she was also constrained in what she said, because her terms of reference were limited to looking at the Ministry of Fisheries and not at the offenders. I believe she should be asked to publish her real findings, and that the people guilty of raping and pillaging the scampi fishery should be brought to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EI think that the incoming Government\u2014again, whatever colour it is\u2014should also heed the words of former Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer when he said that the criticism of the Ministry of Fisheries, by both inquiries, was the most scathing criticism of a Government department in New Zealand history. I agree with that. But what has happened? Did anybody get sacked? Did anybody get moved sideways? Did anybody get rapped on the wrist with a wet bus ticket? No, nobody did. At the time, the chief executive officer of the Ministry of Fisheries put out a press release to say that his staff had been vindicated. They had not been vindicated. He should have been falling on his sword, not continuing the fantasy that the ministry is a law unto itself and can ignore the rulings of Parliament, the High Court, and the Court of Appeal. I believe that the Ministry of Fisheries should be made aware of its responsibilities under the Fisheries Act and under international treaties, and that it should address the social and economic well-being of coastal communities. It is simply unacceptable, surely, that small fishers in fisheries like cockles, whelks, geoducks, paddle crabs, pilchards, and others, including scampi, can be put out of business and their lives destroyed by the whim of ministry officials. The quota management system is a tool in the tool-box of fisheries management. It is not an end in itself. It is most certainly not there for the purpose of hugely enriching a small number of people at the expense of others and of the ecological sustainability of the fishery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EEnough of the serious stuff. I want to talk about the people I will remember from my time here in Parliament. Perhaps it would be easier to talk about the people I cannot forget. There are lots of characters here whom I would like to thank. I cannot possibly mention you all, but I do really want to mention a few. The first one has to be my colleague Doug Woolerton, who has the good sense not to be here. Doug is the joker of the Primary Production Committee\u2014the master of the one-liner. How can I forget him? I am sure other members will not be able to forget him, either. He kept us in stitches with his irreverent humour. I do remember a few incidents that I would like to share with you. At one time we were discussing surveying errors\u2014we deal with land information as well as other things in the Primary Production Committee\u2014and it became apparent that Mark Peck had had a dispute with his neighbour over a boundary. When it was surveyed, it was found that the boundary was 9 metres in Mark Peck\u2019s favour\u2014in other words, he had a 9-metre bigger property\u2014at which point, Doug said: \u201CGeez, Mark, that must be a real bugger for your wife when she has to mow the lawn.\u201D Then there was the time I asked him what it was like working with Winston Peters. Perhaps I should not tell this one. Doug said: \u201CLook, he\u2019s like a racehorse. For 10 minutes every day, his eyes are bright, his ears are pricked, and his nostrils are flaring. He races around the track and just hates to be beaten. But after the roar of the crowd dies down, for the rest of the day he\u2019s just like the other horses. He\u2019s back in the stalls, snoring and farting and rolling in the hay.\u201D Sorry, Doug! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EWho else will I not forget? It will be a long-term regret of mine that I did not keep all the notes that Clayton Cosgrove passed to me. To call them irreverent is probably praising them up. I just wish I had kept them to give to Helen or the media. That would have been the end of that political career, for a start. Michael Cullen\u2014I will not forget you, either. You deliver a very boring Budget, but your general debate speeches are gold. Thank you. They are fantastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224be0e2e8709f4519a5b1876244fb52e8\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b94d0dcad5884b0abae9577aaea016b5\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Simon\u2019s are not too bad, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EMike Ward, my mate here from Nelson: when he was elected in 2002 I invited him to come and stay in my apartment for a couple of weeks while he found some permanent accommodation. Three years later, he is still there, and now he complains that I gave him the small bedroom. But Mike really is a character. He lives the Green philosophy in a way I could never aspire to. He is a cycler and a recycler of considerable repute. Thank you, Mike, for your friendship and your support. I really do appreciate it, and I think the planet also owes you a debt of gratitude for your decades of dedication to its survival. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EFor entirely different reasons, I will never forget David McGee. What a treasure that man is to Parliament. Dave, thank you for your advice, particularly during the scampi inquiry and the traumatic times I was having then. I really appreciated your advice, your kindness, and your friendship. Go well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EBefore I close I would like to say a few words about genetic engineering. There is good science and there is bad science. It may well have potential for the future, but at the moment genetic engineering is indubitably bad science. To release alien species\u2014and that is what GE species are\u2014into our unique ecosystems is folly of the highest order. At this stage we simply do not know enough about the technology, and we need to be cautious. We need always to err on the side of caution. In the meantime, of course, we have to be aware that ours is a market-driven economy. The market signals are very clear. Our consumers in our elite markets simply do not want to buy GE food. We already have a market made in heaven. It is one of the greater miracles of my 6 years in Parliament that we were fighting against GE when I first came in, and we are still GE free. Hallelujah to that! We are still nuclear-free as well, and hallelujah to that, except that I think Ken Shirley wants to have a nuclear power station in his backyard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222415a55485fb4291a6ed4ae47705c56d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: No, not in his backyard\u2014in somebody else\u2019s backyard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b3a0c67a8f475c91d1edc75d1894bf\u0022\u003EIAN EWEN-STREET\u003C/span\u003E: He wants to have one in somebody else\u2019s backyard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EParliament has given me much more than I have been able to give in return, and I thank you all for that. This has been an experience to treasure. But the greatest gains to me personally are two women, who are sitting up there in the gallery. They are the reason I am standing down at this election. They are the two people who have rejuvenated my life and given it new direction. Ysabella, who is my first and only child, is the most amazingly gorgeous wee\u2014[Interruption] Hello! That is her, up in the back corner there. She is gorgeous\u2014I am slightly prejudiced, maybe\u2014and everybody who meets her loves her. She is my pride and joy and the apple of my eye. Sue, her mother\u2014I did not know I was capable of loving somebody so much. At last I have a soulmate, and I just cannot wait to spend more time with her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003EThank you all for your friendship and your support. I shall miss you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u00220e0f7d720e7b4082b1d6f5fe729ee225\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e0f7d720e7b4082b1d6f5fe729ee225\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E It feels somewhat presumptuous to be making a valedictory speech when just 3 years ago I stood here and gave my maiden speech. Just last week a press gallery journalist, in the context of my not seeking re-election, asked me whether I felt I was a failure as a politician. I certainly do not. I do not believe that the success or failure of any job should be measured by the length of time spent in it. I doubt whether that journalist would consider herself a failure if she had spent 3 years working for, say, radio and then moved on to another position in television. I prefer to measure my achievements against my own standards. The past 3 years have certainly been pretty action-packed and I can honestly say \u201Cnever a dull moment\u201D. So I am happy to leave here with a feeling that it has indeed been worth it; that I have actually managed to make a little bit of difference for the better, albeit in a small facet of a few people\u2019s lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI came into the House under the leadership of Richard Prebble, and with his support and encouragement I threw myself into the job. I only lately found out that when Mr Prebble was told, in 2002, that I would be standing for ACT he mused: \u201CShe\u2019ll be trouble, but she\u2019ll be good.\u201D Well, I have been both. I was trouble, but I was good, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI put my career in journalism on hold to come here, so analogies are inevitable. One catches a whiff of the smell in the back of the cave and instinctively, just as others want to run away form it, the journalists want to go in to find out what is causing the smell. As an Opposition MP too this applies. One does the research, asks the questions, and checks out the problem. But an MP lets the journalists do the writing, and it is the writing that I have missed so much and that I cannot wait to get back to. Just as good editors have encouraged, pushed, bullied, and cajoled me into writing award-winning stories, Richard Prebble made me want to work hard to be an effective MP. His experience and knowledge were invaluable, and I am grateful to him for his generosity in giving advice to a novice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe first advice was that I should not to be scared to make mistakes; an MP who does not make mistakes is not doing his or her job. I remember that, not long after the election, the Hon Steve Maharey wrote to the Speaker raising a possible abuse of the privilege of free speech by me in a general debate. I had proof that, despite statements to the contrary, Child, Youth and Family Services were still placing vulnerable children in the care of convicted sex offenders; in this case, a paedophile I had named in my 1996 book. It was late at night. I nervously showed a copy of this letter to Mr Prebble, thinking that I had really done it now. I was expecting a bollocking. He took the letter and read it, and we got the usual scratching of the back of the head and hitching up of pants. \u201CHmm. This is very serious,\u201D he said as he read through the letter, and he kept saying: \u201CThis is serious.\u201D Then he said: \u201CWell, Mr Maharey has suggested to the Speaker that he \u2018have a discussion with Ms Coddington\u2019 about raising such concerns in the future. This letter itself could be a breach of privilege.\u201D said Mr Prebble. \u201CGo down to the House and read Erskine May and see what you think.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EIt ended up that I happily wrote to the Speaker with a counter-charge that Mr Maharey could be just as much in breach of privilege as I was, because he was trying to frustrate and impair my freedom of speech, and impair the proper carrying out of my duties and performance as a member of Parliament. The complaints, of course, never amounted to anything, but I wonder how many second or third-term MPs have sat up late at night studying Erskine May\u2014let alone an MP in his or her first few months. Richard Prebble\u2019s guidance helped to make this place feel slightly less alien, despite the fact the former Speaker kept muddling me with Heather Roy for months. Serving with a parliamentarian of Richard Prebble\u2019s calibre has been a rare honour and privilege. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EOne of the main reasons I leapt the divide from the fourth estate was that I am driven by a desire to do more to help and protect children\u2014not just protect them from sexual abuse, but help them in terms of improving their chances for a good education. There is no doubt that most of our children do extremely well at school, but not long before I left North and South magazine I wrote a feature on the appalling situation in this country whereby around 18 percent of school leavers are unable to read, write, or add up, to a sufficient ability that they can cope with everyday life. I call this child abuse of the mind. If the same portion of students left school physically crippled there would be an outcry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EWhen Qantas sponsored me as a press fellow to Wolfson College, Cambridge, in 2003, I studied the effect of parental choice on literacy standards in the Netherlands and Sweden. When I got back here I published my research in a little book called Let Parents Choose, and campaigned hard on the merits of a voucher system, which would allow all parents, not just the affluent, to take children to the school they choose\u2014an ACT policy since 1996. That policy is now being adopted\u2014albeit incrementally\u2014by other parties in this house. The voucher system is no longer a dirty word. \u201CLet parents choose\u201D became the catchcry from Russell to Blackball during our crusade against the massive school closures. Then just last week at a political meeting in Auckland, a candidate for the M\u0101ori Party agreed that ACT\u2019s education policy is the best for M\u0101ori\u201430 percent of whom leave school with no qualifications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EMy stance on sexual abuse has been unflinching since 1996, when I compiled my first Paedophile and Sex Offender Index. One of my express aims upon entering Parliament was to follow the lead of the United Kingdom and Canada, and introduce my Sex Offenders Registry Bill. I am grateful to Allan Bracegirdle for drafting my bill so quickly and concisely, and I was very lucky to have it drawn from the ballot so early in my term. It unanimously passed its first reading and is ticking its way smoothly through the select committee process. I have spoken to several MPs in other parties who firmly support the bill, and I am confident that under Stephen Franks\u2019 care this will become law in the next Parliament. That would see New Zealand stand alongside other First World nations with similar legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EIt is with huge satisfaction that I now see widespread recognition of the faults of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA). I started campaigning against this also in the pages of North and South magazine. Before I was made education spokesperson for ACT the Education and Science Committee refused leave sought by ACT for an inquiry into the NCEA. Undaunted, Richard Prebble, Donna Awatere Huata, and I held our own inquiry, travelling around the country hearing submissions both for and\u2014especially from parents\u2014against the NCEA. Now, as I leave, the Labour Government has agreed to not one but three inquiries, with the results that we all predicted when this dreadful experiment was first foisted on our school children back when National was in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EOf course, I do not take sole credit for these changes in attitude. The ACT party has been hugely influential on other political parties, whether they care to recognise it or not. Key ACT policies are now accepted, at least nominally, by most parties. Issues that once made ACT a radical party\u2014welfare abuse, low taxes, zero tolerance for crime, ending the treaty grievance industry, opening up the Family Court, and honouring the right to self-defence\u2014are now widely accepted by the New Zealand public as essential for this country\u2019s development, peace, and progress. I consider myself very, very fortunate to have been an MP in a party that not just tolerated my obsessions but gave me the utmost freedom to pursue my objectives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI have absolutely no doubt that my colleagues will be back in the next Parliament because their work, in terms of being the party of influence, fresh ideas, and new policies, is certainly very successful. They have made enormous achievements, but their work is far from finished. So I do leave with a sense of achievement and accomplishment, and I believe Hansard will reflect that. In select committees I have cooperated, where appropriate, with opposing politicians for good outcomes. For example, on transport legislation Lianne Dalziel and I worked hard together to clean serious sex offenders out of the taxi industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI have hugely enjoyed my time here. I have made friends across both parties, from pale Katherine Rich here to brown John Tamihere over there. It is certainly a brutalising place\u2014that is for sure. But I do not blame anyone for the battles I had to face and the demons I stared down. Even the bad times were good. I am sorry for my children; they did not like reading some things about their mother, and they were hurt by it. But nobody ever said that life would be easy, and when the tears were dried we always managed to sit down together, bring things into perspective, and have a good laugh. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI believe members of the press gallery owe me in terms of some of the copy I inadvertently provided for them. For those who hyperventilated and billed me as a star and future leader, I hope your excuse for the non-appearance of your \u201Cwe got it wrong stories\u201D is that they were spiked. There are no stars in politics, just 120 MPs doing the best they can, in an environment that\u2014unjustifiably, in my opinion\u2014ranks their profession as the lowest in society. My advice to journalists is: do not knock it until you have tried it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E I do hope that what I went through does not deter people from standing for Parliament. I also hope that my controversial publicity does not cause the ruling hierarchy of political parties to over-sanitise those whom they decide to promote as high-ranking MPs just to save their parties from embarrassing publicity. This is the House of Representatives. People who have made mistakes, who have fallen over and skinned their knees, who have picked themselves up and fought another day, and who have lived life to the full will have made embarrassing decisions in their past. But I doubt that New Zealand wants to be represented by 120 individuals who have never made a single mistake in their lives. That really would be a Parliament of freaks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003ESo I am moving on to another pasture now, which includes a happy marriage and a chance to make some fine Pinot Noir. To those who suspect I am going soft, be warned: I have not finished with politics, and I will not rule out a come-back. I shall be up there with the fourth estate\u2014the nit-pickers\u2014watching you, and remembering exactly what you have promised in this election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThank you to my staff, especially Janice Lopez, Scott Dennison, David Young, and my electorate chair Lyn Fitness. Thank you to my colleagues who have supported and tolerated me. Kia kaha, and remember: it is better to fall on principle than to stand on lies. I wish all of you the very best, and I leave you with the words of Viktor Frankl, a neurologist who survived 3 years in Dachau and Auschwitz: \u201CWe who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms\u2014to choose one\u2019s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one\u2019s own way.\u201D Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cde65e2d7864d31b8254ec7141b365d\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022307b1d7884be4f0d84381b5c86b1c5ca\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00226b2c44e457ab4334bd6845250cc88a75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b2c44e457ab4334bd6845250cc88a75\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the passing through its remaining stages of the Appropriation (2005/06) Estimates Bill; the introduction and passing of the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill; Government notice of motion No. 1; the passing through its remaining stages of the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill and any bills into which that bill may be divided; and Government notices of motion Nos 2 and 3. This motion is moved so that the House can complete the business the Government wishes to see finished before the House is dissolved for the upcoming general election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a3e4def2dbfe4622b035b1785d318922\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e913170b39214fc292027d637c344949\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bfb50fe14eab46f78221070f487ad619\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000429\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 28 July on the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a08b46bb444047128ffe0658630b77cc\u0022\u003EVote Transport (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022 data-id=\u002246f9b3ec1fd446b491e2824768b4f550\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246f9b3ec1fd446b491e2824768b4f550\u0022\u003EMIKE WARD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E When I was cut off in full flight the other night, I was talking about travelling by public transport\u2014by the train, in fact. I had hoped that the motorists who were clogging the highway outside were sufficiently grateful to me, my fellow travellers, those who happened to be walking or cycling on the day, those who work from home, and the car-poolers. The benefits of public transport are for everybody who travels on our roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003EThe Green influence was obvious in last year\u2019s release of the national walking and cycling strategy, and in the public transport strategy. Thanks to the New Zealand Transport Strategy and the Land Transport Management Act, we are heading in the right direction, but too slowly. The big transport issues now are climate change and the end of cheap oil. When I spoke about this issue last week the price of oil was US$58 a barrel. This morning it was US$62 a barrel and heading upwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003EWe are looking at spending a vast sum of money on roads, and the idea that it is business as usual just will not do. The fact that 80 percent of the transport budget, which went from $285 million in 2000-01 to a record $518 million this year, is targeted at roads in the form of new State highway construction spells to me that it is a case of business as usual. Our children will not thank us for white elephant motorways, which will be memorials to our lack of foresight when we can no longer afford to drive on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003EWe have to move away from building infrastructure that perpetuates behaviour that, even if it were sustainable, can only be described as bizarre. Instead, we have to change people\u2019s behaviour. I have spoken about my concern for my grandchildren, and it puzzles me that people in this generation persist in living far too far from all the places they need to be. The future may look bleak, but sitting in slow-moving queues of traffic day after day, travelling to destinations that we should have lived much closer to, is not exactly a bundle of laughs, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003EThe Greens want a fairer deal for alternatives to cars. Urban and rural State highways receive 100 percent State funding. Urban public transport requires matching funding from local rates. To get real investment in public transport, we need to level the playing field; otherwise, the money allocated to public transport depends on weary ratepayers coughing up the funds. The Greens are committed to changing this outdated system. I want to talk about where we need to be. It is about redesigning our lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd048ef267ce4017b9340215c66d7f51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd048ef267ce4017b9340215c66d7f51\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Given that we are debating the transport estimates, I will keep the focus deliberately on road funding. I very much want to talk about how the current Government has used something called \u201Csmoke and mirrors\u201D. A year ago, the Government announced the huge figure of $18.7 billion for roading over the next 10 years. I have to say, quite honestly, that as an Opposition member I was gobsmacked by that figure. That is the biggest number for roading that I had ever heard under any circumstances, and I said: \u201CWow! How do we counteract that?\u201D. I thought that we simply could not counteract it and that we had better be silent, because that is what one should do in Opposition if one cannot counteract something. But then I went back to my office. I sat down with an Excel spreadsheet, I looked at the last 10 years of road funding, and I looked at what the average amount of growth had been, which was around 6.9 percent per annum\u2014and I ask members to remember that that is just growth from petrol tax, road user charges, and so on. It is nothing to do with the largesse of the Government; it is just that as people use, so they create the revenue. So I took that average 6.9 percent, I took last year\u2019s base figure, I put in growth of 6.9 percent for the next 10 years, and it came out at $19.1 billion. In other words, this huge number, which, to be fair, was bigger than ever before, was actually slightly less than the historic growth that we have been experiencing. I have noticed ever since that the current Minister, Pete Hodgson\u2014and I would like to hear his comments on this\u2014often says that the Government is spending more on roads this year than ever before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022439fc983d91641d49589ced2c7266ce7\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead051c33ab844938851b370337f2440\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. My colleague from the North Shore says that it not true, but Pete Hodgson is correct. That is true for every year in the history of the country for the last 20 years\u2014for any one year and for any Minister of Transport. I have here the table that was developed for us by the researchers in the Parliamentary Library. It shows all the subsidies and spending. There was, though, one big year when it jumped, and I wondered how it went up in 1990 so much. But it turned out that that was a 15-month year, because we realigned the accrual accounting. But in every other year that was the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ELet me give members the figures. I will start with the next year, 1991, when the amount was $503 million. In the next year it was $528 million, the next year $541 million, then $581 million, the next year $601 million, the next year $624 million, the next year $637 million, the next year $757 million, the next year $813 million, and the next year $884 million. Do members get the pattern? Every year the spending on roading was more than the spending in the previous year. So it is no great claim when Pete Hodgson comes into this House and says: \u201CWe\u2019re spending more on roading than we have ever spent.\u201D That is true\u2014but it has always been true. The real test is what percentage of the economy the Government is actually spending on roading. That is the true measure. As the economy grows\u2014and the GDP has grown every year along the way\u2014so should what the Government is spending match it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI want to go through a few tables. Here is a chart, and I think that Paul Swain, when he was Minister of Transport, answered the first 3 years of it, and then Mr Hodgson filled in the last ones. This graph is called \u201CAuckland Roads: Capital Expenditure on New State Highways and New Local Roads\u201D. If we listen to the Labour Government, it would have us believe that what it was spending in Auckland, compared to the spending of the National Government, was huge. Well, members should have a look at the graph. The blue tower on the left represents National\u2019s last full year in office. The purple tower, the next one up, is a part year\u2014it is 7 months of National and 5 months of Labour. The rest of those towers for the next 4 years represent the Labour Government in full. Now, these are the Minister\u2019s answers to written questions on how much money was spent on Auckland roads. Only in the 2003-04 financial year did the spending actually get above what National had been spending back in 1999. So I tell the Minister that he should forget the smoke and mirrors, and forget the argument: \u201CWell, we are doing better.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWhat do members think of this graph? Here is a graph that shows the spending on roading, right back from 1990, as a percentage of GDP. Now, everyone who is involved in road funding overseas\u2014such as the big financial houses or other Ministers, such as the roading Minister in New South Wales or Victoria\u2014will say that the real test is what percentage of GDP is being spent on roads. If members look at this graph, they will see that spending actually peaked back in 1999 at about 1.1 percent, and that for the next 4 full years under the Labour Government, and not the part year\u2014it did change last year; it came back to where it had been\u2014it was less, as a percentage of the size of the economy. So no wonder we can use\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c101969b2b244778f0b5033074df112\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: Labour lies!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d28a5402cf4d78a07deec878ac60af\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. My colleague is not being fair. This is a case of using smoke and mirrors. Let me tell members once again that the figures can be used as the Minister uses them. One can say that every year there has been more spending than in the year before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1b05d179471449f8cf1bd42811e1fdc\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: You had nothing ready to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f52a5338f1684b78bc47e827787437e4\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I challenge Judith Tizard today to tell me of one year in the history of road funding where the amount of funding was not more than in the previous year. I have the answer; it has happened once. Members should listen to this, because they will love it. In the first full year of the Labour Government\u2014that is, the 2001 year\u2014spending went from $884 million, the year before, to $846 million for its first full year. It is the only time, I tell Ms Tizard, in the history of the National Land Transport Programme, and right back to the time of the National Roads Board, when the funding for roading dropped in actual terms\u2014not in real dollars, not in percentage of GDP, but in actual dollars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227414f9c686614bb080fc2664f00dd205\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: You are telling lies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d04f31e66cb741238edb151a8544cdd5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member on my right that there were two indiscretions there. The member brought the Chair into the debate, and she used a word that is unparliamentary. I ask the member to desist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a3bd5e22b3a4db7abdd2fe63e689bb3\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I ask her to withdraw and apologise for the sentiments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af74f303fe7e41e0b57f1325708217a6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221982f273900481e8be2c8bdc566b560\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f061d29558ac425c9e26c22fc2955c2d\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: And, in case the member for Auckland Central does not know the figures\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d948f1912e94606a100b622fe985137\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: Tell the truth!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee11e25b0d844db5ba1e2f5b4597c762\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E:. Well, I am going to go through the list of them. They are here\u2014here is the total amount of money spent on roading. They are the Government\u2019s figures and, to be fair, I note that they have gone up in every year. But, as I pointed out to my colleagues, there was one year where the spending dropped in actual dollars. [Interruption] Could someone get her some medication\u2014she is having another one of her fits, over there. It is unfair to leave her unattended. Someone needs to help her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257c73befe64945b896fb049c19a04ce5\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. There was an extensive interchange where a member on this side of the House told a member on the Opposition side to take pills, and that member was required to withdraw and apologise. I require the same. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9bd1cc9c9c444869b4785332ff3f983\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: There is a point of order on the floor, and both members are interjecting. It is wrong to imply a personal reflection in the way the member did. I ask him to stand, withdraw, and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e392fb171df40eaba0bda95f35c39d4\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am not a person who normally does that, but I am a person who gets sick of someone continuously shouting all the time. You, Mr Chairperson, often say that interjections should be rare and reasonable and, hopefully, witty. You would like them to be that way, but during the second part of my speech Ms Tizard has not stopped yelling the whole time. I ask you to call her to order, too, Mr Chairperson, or you will bring this Committee to disorder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf015eb7515467a934423bdad2992d2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Williamson. The member had been called to order, and I am sure she was coming to order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d07fb53370b40af836cfb88513aaecd\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I get back to the focus. As I said, this is smoke and mirrors. Now, my adoring drive-time audience in Auckland will be listening right now, and the real test would be to ask them whether they think that Labour has fixed the problem in 6 years. In 6 years, a helluva lot of roads can be built. Members should go to Sydney and look at what had been built in the last 6 years, or go to Melbourne and look at what has been built in the last 6 years. There is kilometre after kilometre of tarmac all over the place and cross-Sydney tunnels, and the Citylink\u2019s Mitcham-Frankston spur is now under way in Melbourne. So nobody should say that we cannot do that in 6 years\u2014others do\u2014but the reason we have not done so has been the shortfall in funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWe saw how worried the Government got when National announced that it would take all the petrol tax and move it to fund the roads. The first response from Dr Cullen was that it was an outrage and fiscally irresponsible. The second response was to say: \u201CHey, this is helping them in the polls.\u201D The third response was that Labour would spend some more money, as well as the normal funding for land transport, and that it would be called Crown funding. So there is \u201CN funding\u201D from the National Land Transport Programme; there is \u201CR funding\u201D from the regional\u2014the little special pot\u2014there is \u201CJA funding\u201D, which is Jim Anderton\u2019s special thing, through which he likes to give away some money to the regions, and now there is \u201CC funding\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe Government announced just a couple of weeks ago $660 million extra for Wellington. It had already announced $225 million extra, and there will be a little bit of largesse coming for the Bay of Plenty this week. We will also see a lovely Waikato package announced just before 17 September\u2014just watch! Mark my words! When Don Brash said National would build the Waikato Expressway, Labour said that it was an outrage and talked about how fiscally irresponsible it was. You watch how Labour will find that money\u2014like the $500 million and the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295f39d745927422483f04caa0f553d7f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022077f5ffe5fa24d92a77b7edc90d281b9\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, Mr Chairperson, I am speaking to you\u2014you watch how they find that money, sir, because I can tell you that it is just like the $540 million Dr Cullen found under the mattress the other day, by chance, and then said it was all for roads. Have we ever seen a panic button like that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284d1e766a87d45fd8132cf7dfec76466\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: There will be more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c003a40162f14be19e0c7a3c3df7fe54\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: There will be more. But where is the certainty? The contractors want some certainty. They want to know that in the long term the petrol tax will be committed to road funding so they can gear up their capability and capacity, but we are not hearing a mutter nor a murmur from the current Government on the issue. Well, hang on; help is on the way. National believes that what comes from the roads should go back to the roads\u2014including Judith Tizard. I say to members of this Committee that that is what National will do. It will take every cent of petrol tax\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022877e703e504e4b69a82922b3b3d9ea0b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Put it down the highway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022594e9dea3583467a841e1f2705b49101\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014and put it down the highway for a number of them, actually\u2014and start building some roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdee334d7cba472a9546b0bcce929ac0\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c7b5262e6ef48938a6a98ca1899ca84\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: And Darren Hughes should be out there fighting for that money. That is what he should be doing, instead of sitting in here carping away like a schoolboy who has not yet started shaving. He should be out there fighting for the money so the people of Kapiti can get some decent roads in their electorate and not end up with the shambles that is out there now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI am very happy to say National believes that there are other barriers to roading. The other barriers are the things like the Resource Management Act, and we were told at the select committee that it now takes longer to gain consent for a new road than it does to construct it. I will repeat that, in case members did not hear. It takes longer to gain consent for a new road than it does to construct it. That is an outrage. I asked Transit afterwards whether there was any other\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226324ab6597cc448bbff71c585c14612b\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Nine years and you didn\u2019t do it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b973af89b2bf46c8b3a5ea88a1d15046\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: That member says: \u201CNine years and you didn\u2019t do it.\u201D Actually, in 1999 National introduced quite substantial amendments to the Resource Management Act to fix those barriers. Guess what\u2014the incoming Labour Government made Jeanette Fitzsimons chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, and it bowled them. Well, they are coming back. Let me tell Mr Hughes that those amendments are coming back. The only good news I have for that member is that the people of his area will start to see some good roads built. It will require funding. That will come from $4.5 billion on top of everything that is in the current National Land Transport Programme announced by Labour. The funding is on top of that. It is extra, in addition, over and above, and more\u2014let us get the words right\u2014than what is currently in the National Land Transport Programme. National is committing another $4.5 billion, because that is what the petrol tax would come to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d1f3d833b4f642c99faf5e979fa8ef1b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Transport be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 36\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; ACT New Zealand 8; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVote Transport agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240df4cb2e6514824a5e65ea2bb190fc0\u0022\u003EVote M\u0101ori Affairs agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e40e19bad23e46baa147b386c2d399fa\u0022\u003EVote Emergency Management agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b146bbc45a8b427eb991cec51d80e619\u0022\u003EVote Internal Affairs agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022086446a901914c7c8f0382ffc4c876dd\u0022\u003EVote Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002259ec20f0b26c4c55b44c485e56ff9422\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259ec20f0b26c4c55b44c485e56ff9422\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay Of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E As I speak to the appropriations for Vote Police, people up and down New Zealand will be asking themselves whether they remember a time when the police were held in worse esteem by the people of New Zealand. There is no other. This Parliament is meeting on what may officially be its last day of this session, and we know that every single piece of market research information shows that public confidence in the New Zealand Police has plummeted. New Zealanders no longer believe that this Government\u2019s priority is dealing with crime and drugs; they believe its priority is dealing with revenue gathering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EUp and down the country, communities know that if they dial 111, the chances are that they will not get the level of service they want. The Opposition revealed a few weeks ago that 180,000 phone calls to the police communications centres had gone unanswered. The Opposition has revealed case after case of human tragedy involving the 111 system. Iraena Asher dialled the police when she needed them most and got a taxi. Then we had the folks from Te Puke, Mr and Mrs Bentley. Mrs Bentley dialled 111 when they needed assistance because crazed lunatics with a gun were beating up Mr Bentley. What happened? She was lied to, and the police did not arrive in time. The emergency services were not informed that a gun was involved. It was an absolute catastrophe. Time and time again we hear those kinds of dreadful stories of events taking place under the watch of this Minister of Police, who does not even deign to come down to the House and face accountability for his appalling performance as Minister of Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EWe have never seen a time when New Zealanders have had less confidence in their police force. Let us look at the reason for that. It is because of a complete and utter lack of leadership by this Minister, and because of appalling leadership by the Commissioner of Police. Neither of them has grasped the full extent of the understaffing and the under-resourcing of the New Zealand Police. Right now, New Zealanders know that if they need the police, the policemen and policewomen of New Zealand will do their level best to provide the sort of service they want, but that those people are under incredible staffing pressure. The Opposition revealed a few weeks ago that 1,100 unallocated cases were sitting on the desks of police officers in Counties-Manukau Police District. Do members know what happened then? The police administration picked up the phone and said to every police district in New Zealand that it should quickly move the unallocated files and put them on officers\u2019 desks. The districts were told that it did not matter whether the officers actually dealt with the files, but the administration could say they were allocated. That is why we got the incredible situation\u2014even in my own police district\u2014where when we rang each of the police areas to find out how many files were unallocated and we added them up, the total was about four times what police headquarters said it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EIn Counties-Manukau we had, and still have today, a number of unallocated sexual complaints that the police have not investigated. We found out that in south Auckland nine serious sexual assaults were not being investigated because of police understaffing. Information that will come out in the next 24 hours will highlight to members of this Parliament how bad the understaffing of, for example, the Criminal Investigation Bureau in central Auckland is, and the fact that the police simply have not had the resources they need to keep up. Our police staffing is way below what any New Zealander would expect of the police force, and that is because of this Government\u2019s priorities. This Government has made revenue gathering the priority over crime and drugs in this country. This Government has increased the number of traffic tickets by over 65 percent, when still only one in every nine burglaries is solved and the time it takes the police to respond to priority one calls is getting longer and longer in every police district. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI have a message for the communities of New Zealand: help is on the way. Support for the police will come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022366fb8e03e5f423eb048ba0cdcd740c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022366fb8e03e5f423eb048ba0cdcd740c9\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E We are here today to discuss the estimates for the new fiscal year. But it is, I have to say, a rather pointless exercise. It is pointless because on the issue of law and order, on the issue of the police, and on the question of whether our communities are safer, feel safer, have confidence in this Government to protect them, have confidence in the Minister of Police to give the police the resources they need, and have confidence in the Commissioner of Police to manage those resources, this Government fails on every count. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is sad, but I guess in some ways encouraging, that when we go out into the streets, clubs, pubs, and rugby clubs of New Zealand, the New Zealanders we meet say unanimously that this Government has failed them in the area of police. This country will look back on the 111 debacles and say: \u201CHow could that ever have happened?\u201D. When New Zealand First looks at the resources allocated by this Government to the police, we see quite clearly that this Government does not understand in any way, shape, or form the problems the police are facing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe police ask for only three things. They ask for adequate resources\u2014and police numbers within those adequate resources\u2014they ask for the tools to do the job, and they ask that appropriate priorities be accorded. But what do we see? In terms of resources in ratio terms, we have a totally inadequate ratio of police to citizens in this country when compared with other likeminded nations. In terms of money, the money that the Government crows about its having increased in the Budget goes no way to addressing the police\u2019s ability to actually investigate the levels of crime that we are dealing with today. In terms of tools, the police still want some simple tools. They want on-board data systems in their cars, they want body armour, they want stab-proof vests\u2014actually, they want simple things like socks to arrive on time; they do not want to wait 9 weeks to get a pair\u2014and they want legislation like an amendment to the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act that would enable them to put young men away earlier rather than have them kill themselves on our motorways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThey want the tools to put boy racers away at the earliest stage and not be dealing with them 30, 40, or 50 convictions down the line. They want the tools to deal with people who rack up $70,000, $80,000, or $90,000 worth of fines and thumb their noses at the law. They want priorities, and they do not want the priorities built around traffic policing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EBut this Government has none of those things in its policy, and I have to tell the public of New Zealand not to worry about it; after this election, all those issues will be dealt with by New Zealand First. Why this Government insists on passing laws legalising prostitution\u2014or lowering the drinking age, which the previous Government did\u2014and telling the public that the police will enforce the laws, and failing every time in every Budget to deliver to the police the resources to do precisely that, is absolutely beyond me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWe have a crisis in the police force in terms of confidence. We are losing experienced officers, hand over fist, and one of the reasons we lose them is that we have an incompetent Minister of Police who, when he is told that there are problems in the 111 system and is told 2 years in advance by a brave police officer in uniform, he does nothing about it, and the first time the public knows there is a problem is when a young lady goes missing and is never seen again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EPolice officers are leaving the force because they are sick of writing out tickets to pump up this Government\u2019s revenue, which is what it is. I ask the Minister, if the speed cameras and the quota ticketing are working, why are so many young men still dying on our roads? They are dying because the policy of issuing quota tickets does not work, because it is catching law-abiding citizens in the main. It is not focusing on or targeting the recidivist offender\u2014the person who should have been taken off the road. How ridiculous it is that a man with 23 convictions for being drunk in charge of a vehicle is still at large. How sad it is that young men who are clocking up $20,000 or $30,000 worth of fines get away with it, only to die on the roads later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u002266bed6a08b1b442382b3b6d4a25f7f14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266bed6a08b1b442382b3b6d4a25f7f14\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National\u2014Epsom):\u003C/span\u003E Members are speaking at the moment in connection with the appropriations debate, and it is perhaps interesting to reflect on why we are doing all this. The reason is that the Crown cannot spend money, levy taxes, or raise loans without the authority of Parliament. So, in the course of the parliamentary financial cycle, a number of pieces of legislation are passed through Parliament to provide the support for funding and maintain the system of democracy as we know it here. Appropriations are, of course, made for specific purposes and are grouped into votes. I will follow the previous speaker by speaking about Vote Police, and I do that in the context of the responsibilities I have in the National Party for justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker has said that we do not feel safe on our streets and in our communities. That is in marked contrast to the position that this Government has taken. The Minister of Police, Mr Hawkins, has made it clear on a number of occasions that he considers the police are fabulously well resourced. I recall him stating on 3 February 2005, in answer to a question in this debating chamber \u201C\u2026 the police are well resourced.\u201D, and he was to repeat that line some 12 days later when, in a second answer to a parliamentary question, he stated: \u201CThe commissioner and I often talk about resources and he is very pleased with what I get him.\u201D The Minister was again to reaffirm the Government\u2019s position when he stated, in answer to a question asked on 4 May, 3 months later: \u201CI am satisfied that the police are very well resourced under this Government \u2026\u201D. Well, that is absolute nonsense! One need only to look, by way of comparison, at the ratio of population per police officer in countries similar to our own to see that New Zealand is critically starved of front-line police officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244696962827e4b508a6ad6f94897a8b2\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Give us the exact number that National proposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bec0cc20d2694a00a1b52ceea2c5e083\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to give the exact numbers, by way of comparison, in a number of countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EBefore I do that, though, when we are talking about front-line police\u2014and, as the Government member knows, National has made a commitment to increase the number of front-line police\u2014we need to define exactly what we are talking about. When we are talking about front-line police, we are talking about police officers in police cars and detectives in the front line. These are the ratios. In France, for example, the ratio of population per police officer is 255:1, in Scotland it is 321:1, in England and Wales it is 393:1, in Australia it is 427:1, in the United States of America it is 438:1, in Canada it is 531:1, and in New Zealand it is 554:1. What will happen is that, by including additional sworn police staff in the 2005 Budget, New Zealand\u2019s population to police ratio will decrease from 554:1 to 544:1. Of the countries that I have just used as an example, our percentage is the worst. Yet we have a brave and, some would say, foolish Minister stating that the police are well resourced: \u201CThe commissioner and I often talk about resources and he is very pleased with what I get him.\u201D Finally, he stated: \u201CI am satisfied that the police are very well resourced under this Government \u2026\u201D. What a load of nonsense that is! That is why, no doubt, the Police Association is calling for 10,000 sworn officers by 2010. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EOne of the things that has happened in the context of police funding is that tagged funding has occurred. Government members may be interested to know, if they are wide awake enough to listen, that the tagged funding has done nothing substantial\u2014nothing significant\u2014and nothing at all to increase the numbers of front-line police officers. We have seen increases in tagged funding, so that at Auckland airport the number of police officers has dramatically increased. That is a response to treaty obligations, which New Zealanders have accepted, but it has done nothing to increase the number of front-line police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s pledge is to substantially increase the number of front-line police officers. That we are capable of doing, that we will do, and that we will fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfc0657f2bd14aa98ce2a5b899813d58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfc0657f2bd14aa98ce2a5b899813d58\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I thought Mr Mark made a very good contribution to this debate in summarising the problems we have with the police, but I just want to take a much smaller area, which does not usually receive much public consideration, but which is very indicative of why no amount of money under the current control is likely to fix the problems. I want to look at the culture of secrecy. Mr Mark also raised this issue this afternoon. We have a Minister of Police who receives $1.5 million for policy advice, including advice on answering questions, who simply chooses not to answer them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E What kind of police force can we expect with a Minister who decides that the rules do not apply to him, or just decides that when it is embarrassing he will forget about supplying answers? It is a culture of secrecy where the police are, in fact, our only defence in court. In our justice system, wrongly, the public do not have a voice. The victims do not have a voice in court. The only people speaking up for the victims and the public in court are the police prosecutors, and the police are headed by a man who does not bother to answer parliamentary questions when they are embarrassing. The police should be fighting bitterly to make sure there is a general expectation in this country that truth will out, cheats do not prosper, and honesty pays. But they do not. I believe that this is as much a source of grievance to local police\u2014the police on the beat\u2014as it is to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThree high-profile cases at the moment exemplify the tolerance that this Minister has supervised\u2014the tolerance of cover-up that means New Zealanders are simply treated as plebs, kept in the dark, and have their trust in the justice system, not just the police, affected by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a601038f0642a092d752e61a339428\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Helen\u2019s little mushrooms!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c4c0500aca4fcf87b1a9a7837c947a\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. Wrongdoing is kept under wraps by name suppression; and by the habit of judges\u2014the justice insiders\u2014to decide that they can know all about cases, but it will not suit the plebs, or them, if others know. Name suppression, which the police do sometimes oppose, is a cancer in the public confidence of the justice system. I have asked this Minister about his attitude on these matters, and have not got answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EACT policy is for open courts\u2014to restore the tradition of British justice that prevailed until only 40 years ago. Last week I asked the Minister of Broadcasting about a State-owned enterprise I believed was complicit in a cover-up of a Northland case. It appears to me now that the State-owned enterprise, if it is involved, has covered its tracks deeply, though the Minister of Broadcasting\u2019s answers are ambiguous, to say the least. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EBut in this case we have a perfect example of the suspicions that emerge about the motives of people in the justice system when we have secrecy. The insiders have their vanity satisfied by knowing all about it. The connections of an accused whose name is suppressed usually end up knowing all about it. Those who want to can find out on the Internet what is going on. We have three cases like this at the moment. We have the sports celebrities, whom everyone except Joe Public is not allowed to know unless they go on to the Internet, and we have the Northland case\u2014the Whangarei case\u2014where it appears that a contractor to TVNZ has helped persuade the court to allow a cover-up for 9 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThere is an arrogance about this in the system, and it is an arrogance that is not shared by front-line police, who do not like it. It is an arrogance that comes from the insiders feeling that they may be capable of putting aside their previous knowledge and acting objectively, but the punters, who will perhaps end up on a jury, cannot. It is the arrogance that says: \u201CLet\u2019s dispense discretionary privilege of information\u201D\u2014that is the court speaking, and the police when they go along with this\u2014\u201Cbut let\u2019s not let New Zealanders know that justice is being done.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThese high-profile cases do absolutely nothing for confidence. Veronica Jacomb, in the series To Catch a Thief, made a mockery of the public\u2019s interest in that series. The police appear, represent the public, and represent the victims, and then we see the spectacle of virtually the whole of New Zealand with ideas of who it is, but a whole series of people having to issue statements purporting to clear themselves. This does not do anything for confidence. This does not do anything for a general belief by the public that the justice system is just serving those who have money to get Queen\u2019s Counsel, and those who are rich. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThis leaves us all in a position where we believe that justice is available to, or justice can be manipulated by, people who have access to power. The Minister of Broadcasting did not choose to resolve this. The Minister of Police\u2014to be fair he has not had the 10-day time allowed to answer the questions I have asked him about police support for any of these cover-ups\u2014will have 10 days to answer questions. He has a budget of $1.49 million to do that. His answers that I received today to four other important questions say just what I expect he will do with this embarrassing question on name suppression. He has told me: \u201CIt has not been possible to obtain the information required to enable me to respond to this question by the due date. I undertake to provide the member with a copy of the information once it is available.\u201D My guess is that that information will not be available until well after the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EIn the Whangarei case, name suppression has been extended to 22 September, well after the election. In the Whangarei case it cannot be the interests of the accused that have been considered by the court, it must be the financial interests of those he is associated with, because everyone in Whangarei has a good idea of the nature of the charges and who the accused is\u2014everyone who knows the accused. It cannot be the normal charitable concern about family and close relationships, it has to be commercial interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Police, who could have helped resolve this, and who could have been seen as a Minister who was keen to see open justice, has set a pattern of cover-up. This is the same Minister of Police who, when I first asked about the Te Puke couple, Maggie and Peter Bentley, told me that the inquiry would look into whether there was lying, and would look into why he called it a textbook case. The police told the Bentleys that there were police on hand, when they were at least an hour away, told the Bentleys that they had called their neighbours when they had called no neighbours, and blocked Mrs Bentley with reassuring words that were entirely false. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Police assured me, in answers to written and oral questions, that that matter was the subject of a police investigation that would later be reported on. I have read the investigation report, and it does not touch on those matters. There is no explanation that I have seen of why the Bentleys were lied to or why the Minister then described that as a textbook case. The Minister, as the political leader of a police force, should have made it his business to insist on an adequate answer to that. He should have made it his business to be setting a model of openness and a pattern that respected truth, and when he made a mistake, fixing it immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EWhen I implied in my parliamentary question last week that the Queen\u2019s Counsel in the Whangarei case had been directly supported by TVNZ, I made sure, as soon as I learnt that that was not the case, that that was revealed. What does the Minister of Police, charged with statutory duty to uphold the confidence of people in the police, do? He goes to ground. He does not answer the questions. With all the hundreds of thousands of dollars\u2014the $1.49 million\u2014that he has at his disposal to answer questions and provide policy advice, we get nothing more. I do not think he has even asked for any more. I see in the new initiatives his sum for ministerial policy advice has increased by $13,000. There is $13,000 extra, yet his excuse to me, and to Mr Mark of New Zealand First, for not answering his questions is lack of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d4415548284045158c70dc2e02fb3abe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Police be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 31\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 25; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVote Police agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278569c6cb0144cb493f93c9c2b0f6761\u0022\u003EVote Veterans\u2019 Affairs - Defence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022 data-id=\u0022024f42b0ee624ecba0316fff67518ba4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022024f42b0ee624ecba0316fff67518ba4\u0022\u003EBILL GUDGEON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to cover three main points concerning Vote Veterans\u2019 Affairs. The first is that the community will be aware of the role that veterans played and continue to play in developing New Zealand as a nation. A seriously wounded Gallipoli veteran told his grandson that Anzac Day is a day when politicians speak fine words of the glorious dead but they always avert their gaze from the living survivors who gave them democracy. I recognised this when I was invited to the Montecillo Veterans Home and Hospital in Dunedin. It is a home for veterans who are struggling for finance to be relocated. Did the local Government MP support them? No. Who pushed the issues to get them to where they are today? One guess\u2014it was New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003EThe second point I would like to refer to is that the veterans\u2019 perspective is considered as part of Government decision-making on issues that impact on veterans\u2019 lives. A mere apology, no matter how sincere, from the State is simply not enough to redress the gross injustices that have been built up over a number of years, or discrimination against the New Zealand Viet Nam veterans. My appeal to the Government is this: will this Government rectify the misdemeanours that have taken place in reference to the discrimination against our Viet Nam veterans and their families; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003EFor more than 30 years successive Governments have salted the wounds of poisoned veterans and their families. Two Government reports, one ordered by National and the other by Labour, pooh-poohed the veterans\u2019 claims that they were dying after serving their country. No one wanted to know about the chronic disabling illnesses afflicting veterans and their genetically harmed children, who were dismissed as a statistical blip. If one dithers for long enough the problem usually dies, but the legacy of Agent Orange will haunt us long after the last-affected veteran has perished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003EThe Agent Orange issue needs putting to rest. Allegations that New Zealand soldiers in Viet Nam were exposed to the defoliant and have suffered severe repercussions have been current for some three decades, and no Government has stepped forward to sort this out. All of a sudden, when there is to be an election, we hear promises about what parties would do with the veterans. This is what the veterans have said: \u201CThe bidding by the political parties for veterans\u2019 votes is as distasteful as the grandstanding that now disfigures every military celebration in the calendar.\u201D The Press article continued: \u201CIt is difficult not to be moved. The stonewalling the Vietnam veterans have been subject to should not have happened to men who risked their lives for their country\u2014a conclusion that stands even in the face of the fact that the war they fought was controversial and bitterly opposed by many New Zealanders.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003EWhen troops returned from Viet Nam they were ordered to wear civilian dress and to turn up in the dark. Who are the people who opposed them and attacked them? A greater number repeatedly re-elected the Government that deployed the troops. 161 Battery fired the first shot on 16 July 1965. Three months before they were deployed, the Holyoake Government\u2014and Holyoake was the Prime Minister\u2014allowed it to happen. Why are our veterans being treated in such a manner, when we enjoy the freedom that resulted from what they did?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fce185df-f325-4a5a-a850-52fb6b2b918d\u0022\u003EVote agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002251eab6bfa12440e995917c69359f70e0\u0022\u003EVote Veterans\u2019 Affairs - Social Development agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf48766d775f4e3182e67cdb54681245\u0022\u003EVote Defence agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022310b84c5cc8c4aebaab13d835805cbff\u0022\u003EVote Defence Force agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226897274a588e44a2b419b9bab36236fa\u0022\u003EVote Tourism agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022146d9ee211bb4d5094e9e0baaee942f5\u0022\u003EVote Treaty Negotiations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002222266c16b599467e8c785e99c127b839\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222266c16b599467e8c785e99c127b839\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E It is perhaps on the issue of treaty negotiations that Labour has been most spectacular in demonstrating its incapacity to govern appropriately. The template for treaty negotiations was set down during the 1990s, and is widely accepted by the vast majority of the New Zealand population. New Zealanders, we are often told, are fair people\u2014and they are. They do know that where there is a grievance and it is settled, then there is progress. [Interruption] I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I cannot speak while a conversation is going on 2 feet in front of me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022036e826afd444c5e831afd447af2506d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Your point is taken, Mr Brownlee. Perhaps the conversation with the Clerk could be held to one side. You have not lost any time, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218f1ec5b418d49b99e589a46117ee373\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I look at the entries in the Government\u2019s books for treaty negotiations and see that little has changed over the years, and that is good. It means that the fiscal envelope set by the National Government some 15 years ago has still not been exceeded. That, I think, is a tribute to the process that was originally put in place through Mr Bolger, the then Prime Minister, and the Rt Hon Doug Graham. Many people ask about all the money that is going to M\u0101ori and wonder why they should get it. The reality is that we were pouring money back in the early 1990s, through the M\u0101ori Affairs Department, into all sorts of programmes that never benefited people directly, or as directly as the treaty settlements do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E The thing that I find most interesting here\u2014and I want to receive an answer from the Minister on this\u2014is under the heading \u201CSector Outcomes and the Ministry\u2019s Intermediate Outcomes\u201D. Before I go on to that, I want the Minister to tell us why the Government appointed two new people to the Waitangi Tribunal almost 12 months ago who have yet to hear any historical grievance. An answer from the Government would be good, if we can get one. Why are people currently being appointed to the Waitangi Tribunal who do not have any caseload allocated to them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI now go back to the other issue, under the heading \u201CSector Outcomes and the Ministry\u2019s Intermediate Outcomes\u201D, which states: \u201Ca fairer, more credible and more effective justice system, being a system in which people\u2019s interactions are underpinned by the rule of law and justice services are more equitable, credible and accessible.\u201D Why does that have to be a goal for the Office of Treaty Settlements? I would have thought that that goal was something we would want for all New Zealanders. That is a perfect demonstration of how the Labour Party is out there with a message that would tell one audience that it is taking a lot of race-based stuff out of its programmes, but then it quietly slips this sort of thing into the Government accounts. I would have thought that the Office of Treaty Settlements was just about negotiating the settlement of grievances, and would not have that wider social objective. I would hope that the Minister may be able to give us an answer on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnother objective set for the Office of Treaty Settlements is safer communities. Those communities are described as those \u201Cin which there is reduced crime and in which safety and wellbeing is enhanced through partnerships \u2026\u201D. What does that state? Does it state that this Government believes that much of the criminal element in this country resides amongst those people who are harbouring an unresolved treaty grievance? That is how it reads to me, and that has to be an utter nonsense. Safer communities are what all New Zealanders should expect. To state that a safer community is one where there is reduced youth offending, reduced offending by M\u0101ori, reduced violence, reduced family violence, a reduced number of burglaries, reduced organised crime, and reduced theft of, and from, cars is something that all New Zealanders want. I want to know whether the Labour Government seriously believes that those things can be achieved through the process of treaty negotiations. That just seems to me to be an utter nonsense. So I would like the Minister to take a call, to explain what that means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221e3749fc04bc4ae6af61769cf8e80fde\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Treaty Negotiations be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 26\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 25; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVote Treaty Negotiations agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f4611d296804b808c49dc3437b0796c\u0022\u003EVote Corrections agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002287c09663e0bf46f6b28eaa8974325e22\u0022\u003EVote Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae3e70b350a6454a8258bd8bb559077a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Paul Adams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022327fee540d154e87b8ac4523253a5e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022327fee540d154e87b8ac4523253a5e1b\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I understand that in Committee, or in the House, it is inappropriate for us to challenge your ruling. Far be it from me to speak on behalf of New Zealand First\u2014it certainly does not need my protection\u2014but it would seem to me that, as the third-largest party in Parliament, the first call on a vote should go to New Zealand First, unless it yields to United Future. My understanding is that Dail Jones has not done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f505575bc5747fd8f35ebc17b82681b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. He is perfectly correct, and I stand corrected. But the problem now is that, under Speaker\u2019s ruling 25/4, because I have already called Mr Adams I have to give him the call. I will certainly come to Mr Jones straight after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u00225a8f0f51447c41b2b3381fddbc705b49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a8f0f51447c41b2b3381fddbc705b49\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (Junior Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I was going to seek two calls. Now I am in the invidious position where, if Mr Adams goes first, I will have to seek two calls in a row.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4b83b7958744ce09721555b7d037a9b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member can have two calls in a row. I have already taken two calls in a row before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002229061a93d2f24d2cbc8c9df542aff277\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229061a93d2f24d2cbc8c9df542aff277\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Notwithstanding Speaker\u2019s ruling 25/4, which you quoted, you have an opportunity here to make a bit of a mark and perhaps make your own ruling in this matter. I know that sounds like a rash thing to do on the last day that Parliament sits officially\u2014although today rolls on into tomorrow, in one of the vagaries of the parliamentary system\u2014but here is an opportunity for H V Ross Robertson, MP for Papatoetoe, to be noted in Speakers\u2019 Rulings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974f3914a36940e89c98296249a3b2c0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is questioning my ruling. I have made the ruling. I am not creating a new precedent; I am following Speaker\u2019s ruling 25/4. I call the honourable member Paul Adams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3e6219393fa400a8b0cb59d64d18a9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3e6219393fa400a8b0cb59d64d18a9f\u0022\u003EPAUL ADAMS (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E To build a prosperous nation, first, obviously, we have to build prosperous people. As spokesperson on immigration for United Future, I asked the library to look up some figures so that I could see exactly what has been going on in the people area over the past 6 years, seeing as Vote Immigration is $160 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EIn 1999 our estimated population was 3,832,900 people, and by 2004 it had grown to 4,054,300 people, which is an increase of 221,400. Live births in the same period were 337,641, and deaths were 165,537, which brings an increase by natural births of 172,104 people. It should be noted that those births were genuine Kiwi kids. Their parents would have come from a wide variety of countries and cultures\u2014just as many of ours did\u2014as we are a very multicultural nation. However, those children were born New Zealanders. Natural births, therefore, accounted for over 75 percent of our population increase in that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003ESo what did we have to do to achieve, over 6 years, an increase of an additional 49,296 people\u2014an increase, in reality, of only 8,216 per year? Despite all New Zealand First\u2019s negative talk about immigration and the pressure it has caused on our infrastructure, even New Zealand First will have difficulty arguing with the reality of those figures, and our ability as a nation to handle that level of increase. Our infrastructure problems are obviously, in part, due to an expanding economy and growing tourism industry. Surely they are good challenges to work through, but, no, the third tired old party wants to take New Zealand back to the Dark Ages, and United Future says \u201CNo way!\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EHowever, those figures should certainly indicate to us that we do not have the formula right yet, as we need to consider seriously the things we need to do better. Permanent long-term arrivals in that period were a massive 461,210 people. Our permanent long-term departures were 294,938. That is a difference of 166,272 people in a 6-year period. From 166,272 people, how come we achieved a net gain of only 49,296, which is a retention rate of only 30 percent? Are we becoming only a transfer station to other nations? What are we doing so wrong that people who wanted to make New Zealand their home are finding it impossible to do so and have to move on? They are questions the incoming Government should seriously address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EIn closing, I note that we had an inflow of 461,210 people to achieve that 49,000 gain, yet in the same period we aborted 112,116 genuine New Zealand babies who would have become true New Zealanders. Yes, future doctors, carpenters, dentists, schoolteachers, and union delegates, to name a few, die at the hand of the abortionists. If that number had even been halved, our population increase would have been better than what we achieved over those 6 years. That is why United Future believes that a decrease in the number of abortions must be good for our families and good for our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003EWe are proud to grow our own meats and our own wines. We have discovered that what we can grow at home, in New Zealand, ends up being among the best in the world. Our children have been no exception. Many of the world\u2019s greatest achievers\u2014such as Michael Campbell, whose success we have celebrated just tonight\u2014have been New Zealanders. We need to realise this with our children, who, after all, are the fruit of the womb. If we lift the rate of home-grown children, we will find that many of our current challenges are a lot easier to handle. Therefore, let us keep the issues the issue, and not blame immigration for pressures that immigration in itself simply has not caused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u002224b97985830c428e91d269946d7a6a8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224b97985830c428e91d269946d7a6a8e\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to thank the member who has just resumed his seat for his speech. He and I have been to a couple of meetings together, and he has obviously listened to what I have to say and he has been working around the information I have been putting forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has made it clear that we need a population policy, and the Rt Hon Winston Peters made this very clear in his \u014Crewa speech about 5 or 6 weeks ago. New Zealand First intends to stop the knee-jerk annual immigration planning and start working on 10-year and 25-year plans for New Zealand. We want to establish long-term labour market demands and import the skills needed if sufficient New Zealanders cannot be trained. We want to target people with the skills needed and ensure that immigrants have jobs to go to. We want to consult New Zealanders about the make-up of those people coming here, and we want to produce a targeted programme aimed at retaining skilled New Zealanders and encouraging others offshore to return. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is the only First World country with an agricultural base. We have to decide the size of our population and the nature of our environment. We rely on our clean, green image to encourage tourists to come here\u2014in fact, tourism is now our major foreign exchange earner. Yet our population increased by more than 25 percent in the last 18 years to take us to over 4 million, and the suggestion from United Future, from the member who has just spoken, that we should have a population of 5 million in another 10 years, must give us cause for concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EWhat is happening in New Zealand at the moment to say that such a policy is overdue? Well, the member has just given us some figures. From 1976 to 1986 New Zealand\u2019s population increased by 160,000. But from 1996 to 2004, for example, eight years out of 10, our population increased by 329,400, which is more than double the increase from 1975 to 1986 in four-fifths of the time. In 1986 our population was 3,298,000. In 2004 it was 4,061,400, an increase of 772,400 in 18 years, which is a 25 percent increase. Where did it all go? In the Auckland region the population increase from 1986 to 2004 was 435,000. Almost 60 percent of that new population in those 18 years went to Auckland. That increase in Auckland\u2019s population in 18 years\u2014and I am talking about the Auckland region\u2014is almost the same as Wellington\u2019s entire population in the region from year one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003ESo the problem for Auckland is this: did we get the same number of schools that Wellington has, the same number of hospitals that Wellington has, and the same number of roads that Wellington has, in order to compensate for that 18-year growth in Auckland\u2019s population\u2014which was the same as the total population of Wellington since the year dot? The answer is no. In speaking about the effect of immigration on the people of the Auckland area, for example, in west Auckland, when I was the member of Parliament from 1975 to 1984, a new school was built in 1975 and good on the Kirk-Rowling Government and the previous planners for doing that. On the North Shore, at Long Bay, a new secondary school was built in about 1975. Has another secondary school been built in that region since 1975, when Auckland\u2019s population has shot through the roof? No. Not one other secondary school has been built. No wonder the schools have large rolls. There has not been another secondary school built in west Auckland, in the Waitakere College or Long Bay College area, since 1975. I went to the opening of Waitakere College in 1975. Mr Garelja does a wonderful job at Waitakere College, but that is the problem we have in Auckland in so far as immigration is concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EWhat are we going to do about it? We see the effects of this massive immigration to New Zealand, which is totally out of control. We have an electricity crisis in Auckland now. We read about it every day. What will be one of the consequences of that? Well, I am pleased to see that they will have electricity power stations, but there is nothing to stop them from building a nuclear power station. There is no law that stops the building of a nuclear power station. The Royal Commission on Nuclear Power, which we set up from 1975 to 1978, indicated that as of 2005 two nuclear power stations should already be commissioned. The plan was to have two in the North Island and one in the South Island. They should be commissioned now, based on that 160,000 increase in population every 10 years projected back in those days, and we have gone well beyond that today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThat is one of the effects that immigration has. We know that law and order is out of control, and that housing is out of control, and these are all indications of the failure of successive Labour Governments, starting in about 1988 when they opened the floodgates, and of National Governments in the 1990s. There was a slight decrease when New Zealand First was part of the coalition, as we were trying to turn the tap down, and another roaring increase in the last few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EFrom 1996 to 2004 the increase has been 329,000 people, in that short space of time. That is an impossible rate of growth for New Zealand. It is about the size of the Canterbury region\u2019s population in total. We have had increases in Wellington of 15 percent, in Canterbury of about 20 percent, and in Tauranga of 30 percent, but in Auckland, the biggest city, the population increase has been over 50 percent in 18 years. That is a disgrace. New Zealand First says, and I suggest, that we have what David Lange suggested once: not a cup of tea, but a pot of tea and a good, long think about where we are heading now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EIt does not matter how many roads the Labour Party puts in, and I am really pleased with the roading programme that the Labour Party has put up; over the upper harbour bridge, in Mount Roskill, on the northern motorway and the city motorway. It is doing a great job. But it does not matter how many roads we build for the current population because if we increase the population by the same amount again in 10 years, from 4 million to 5 million, no amount of roading can ever stop the problems that Auckland will feel. When I come to Wellington I come to a city that is the same as it was in 1984. I think that the way in which Wellington\u2019s population has increased should have been the master plan for New Zealand, at about 15 percent over 18 years, or about 60,000 in about 18 years in the region, and not the 50 to 60 percent Auckland has had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EWellington is old New Zealand to me. When I come here I see that there has really been no change since I was here in 1984. When I go to Auckland, it is a foreign city. Auckland is a foreign city to Aucklanders now. If one is a fair-dinkum Aucklander, in the mainstream, walking up and down the main street of Auckland, one feels that Auckland is a foreign city. That is what Aucklanders feel. I welcome multiculturalism. I know what it is to be a minority of 0.001 percent myself, but we must have an infrastructure. Immigrants get the blame, but it is the Government\u2019s fault. It is the fault of the Labour Party, and it is the fault of the National Party. Immigrants get blamed for all these things, but it is the fault of successive Governments. That is what the real problem is and that is what New Zealand First highlights time and time again. We have to put in the infrastructure, and that is why we in New Zealand First say that we need a population policy. I am so pleased that Taiwanese people agree with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that Vote Immigration be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00224b9f4a535b224f8c9c4c722724a0efa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b9f4a535b224f8c9c4c722724a0efa4\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. There must be some mistake. The New Zealand First member has just spent 10 minutes railing against immigration policy, and now he is abstaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b1cf539d2644d08d793590759d09e3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6709555ee604e2bad8fe936724d40b3\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: How can he abstain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5ba86bc445941b48a36be2a4a691e9c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226a87a5bbde9c41188d78d6c5e6dbbae5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Immigration be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 31\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 25; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVote Immigration agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u0022952d29610720472492ada8bd8f9c4830\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022952d29610720472492ada8bd8f9c4830\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. My apologies to the Committee but I think I may have inadvertently said \u201Cnine abstentions\u201D in the previous votes after the dinner break, rather than eight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6744b1df5964abeb89cc8329fb7e2ce\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has to seek leave to correct the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf850279c4941f7b7505c9d2c344dae\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec3e3c3cc9d64b13b84234e88156f700\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to honourable members when there is a point of order on the floor there is to be absolute silence. The member is seeking leave to alter the vote. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9c9ff08bcc6454092ac0d75c9b3509d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9c9ff08bcc6454092ac0d75c9b3509d\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Senior Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member should tell us what particular vote he wants to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b028258d960f4e47b8172ef21de7e866\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: It concerns Vote Treaty Negotiations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022b70c4df34f794163a95393b4292c01a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b70c4df34f794163a95393b4292c01a3\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Actually, your intervention did not help, because in order for us to understand what the honourable member is requesting, we need to hear precisely what his dilemma is. That was not clear. He said he \u201Cthought\u201D he had made an error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57df0b7ab7a433d998dbfcb2c734d38\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the member to clarify\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224658ec99a68438d84e371f15702a76d\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: We are being asked right now whether we object to something about which we are not clear. I think the member deserves an opportunity to make clear precisely what the problem is, so we can decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u0022724dff18d0b8490497d72dc913b3ef90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022724dff18d0b8490497d72dc913b3ef90\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairperson, if the Committee will give me a moment I will clarify that and then seek leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd2efcbe29e4873bfa3eb7b858aded0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I just say that not too many minutes are left in this debate. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is no objection. The vote will be corrected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a26297a903ee4b368d47f36c1001bd3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a26297a903ee4b368d47f36c1001bd3e\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. What is \u201Cthat course of action\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e18b5ba8879a46aaa405e7af823995d1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member wish to change the vote, which is, as I understand it, and correct me if I am wrong, Vote Treaty Negotiations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u00229399cbfcd2bf425993e94a5235e50c78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229399cbfcd2bf425993e94a5235e50c78\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4da8e5ae6114a3ba89d00f885cea7a1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Instead of nine votes it should be eight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022167907daf38f412e97fc49b53a4518c4\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS\u003C/span\u003E: Correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ba1e05850a74fb484ef381030daeda9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought. Is there any objection? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec87bcc6c9204624a9ec4b39bb4f1dac\u0022\u003EVote Labour agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022acebfe787e7b4fa99694aee3399d6d4b\u0022\u003EVote State-Owned Enterprises agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002243a42c6ce05441d69da3f9e1ce9c042a\u0022\u003EVote Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022571ff8a6f8364f8bad8048d8cf9a6305\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022571ff8a6f8364f8bad8048d8cf9a6305\u0022\u003EMIKE WARD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The appropriation for Vote Environment totals about $57 million, which is quite a lot of money. The total amount across all ministries is something like a billion-plus dollars\u20142 percent of the vote. That is a lot, too. One could ask whether it is enough. In fact, real savings could be made. There are things we could be doing to look after the environment. We certainly do not look after it\u2014not in the way we might\u2014and those things would cost a lot less than what we are doing. In respect of waste, New Zealanders still throw away about 10 million kilograms every day. Between 1981 and 2001 the population of this country grew by 19 percent, but the amount of stuff we threw away increased by over 100 percent. New Zealanders throw out something like 10 million kilograms of waste every day. My grandchildren\u2019s inheritance goes into those holes in the ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003EI do not want to talk about recycling. We have done a good job in terms of getting people to think about the stuff they are throwing away. We have a good waste strategy; it just needs to have some more teeth. But we have to move on from recycling to persuading people not to take home stuff that they will throw away in short order. We import extraordinary amounts of stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b716869192ef47738352e89918a78351\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time for this debate has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e628969390b8499ba7625e108c3d1c2a\u0022\u003EMIKE WARD\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022960c575654a9479ea409eb07929419af\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. The member cannot seek leave, because this is a set-time debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fcd222c3-03a3-4568-a8aa-b6e8c6ef37c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b907f3c02f497d94ca609ab1895cda\u0022\u003EMIKE WARD\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299a14353d4a0479aaecd7ef8bc82a15e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is seeking leave to complete his speech. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00221a33c7548008435baf4edd2979d34194\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a33c7548008435baf4edd2979d34194\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. That is ludicrous. Labour will be looking to the Greens to form a coalition Government after the election, yet it turns the Greens down and treats them like some sort of doormat\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418dc8eb13f545ccb463d12b75abf5cc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. The Government has made its objection quite clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002226e8af86dc9c417da75f17f39626a52e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226e8af86dc9c417da75f17f39626a52e\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. As far as I recollect, although Mr Mallard is, of course, an important instrument for the Government, he is not the Government on his own. Perhaps he thought Mr Ward was seeking to change a vote again, or suchlike. It seems to me to be an extreme demonstration of a lack of generosity not to allow the man to take another 2 minutes to finish what may well be his last speech in Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221031e048b1a846139330ecec16cc0258\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member, but I have made a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4ca8bc1d44a44e185d9c1fc37fb9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4ca8bc1d44a44e185d9c1fc37fb9cbf\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I had requested that perhaps the leave could be put again, as your decision was unclear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a65dd7937e54006ab7ac0bfc469f5be\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already made a decision. The leave has been denied. All the remaining votes will be taken together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe question was put that Vote Environment, Vote National Archives, Vote National Library, Vote Official Development Assistance, Vote ACC, Vote Child, Youth and Family Services, Vote Senior Citizens, Vote Women\u2019s Affairs, Vote Conservation, Vote Local Government, Vote Community and Voluntary Sector, Vote Courts, Vote Customs, Vote Fisheries, Vote Consumer Affairs, Vote Racing, Vote Communications, the preamble, clauses 1 to 13, and schedules 5 to 7 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d81d3ef7490841eb97b33f22a63f6bb7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the votes, the preamble, clauses 1 to 13, and schedules 5 to 7 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 26; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes, preamble, clauses 1 to 13, and schedules 5 to 7 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000592\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000593\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb2cbdd18d464e8b90e91d06a3488511\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229677ff937a8b4da389363c61efe51843\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002272e052be93ce490d94d4b0bd9905f568\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e052be93ce490d94d4b0bd9905f568\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f2512972a9ef477497154f748ee293e4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 26; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be4e5511e84a48939a00a0035d77d096\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a65b15bd7084328981f71c5b1534432\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fabc79c3bbe742e2aab0cc69d1391894\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224f627a9c3c54952baf4a11b90427915\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228f63f228bfb842d894ff3ed3ca30dd5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f63f228bfb842d894ff3ed3ca30dd5d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Associate Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill be now read a third time and the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill be now read a second time. I think we have witnessed something just now that is particularly interesting: an Opposition that a week or two ago was so keen to go to an election and now is not even prepared to support the Imprest Supply bill in order to clear the decks for that election. That is an interesting approach, and, I think, that an Opposition that a couple of weeks ago\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b6e5311045d4b13b5ece417cb612d36\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not like to interrupt the member mid-speech\u2014in fact, at the very beginning of his speech\u2014but I do so because it is quite plain that unless we seek leave for this debate to be wide-ranging, he will have nothing at all of any material value to offer the House. Accordingly, I seek leave for this to be a very wide-ranging debate, without limitation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c13504a4aacc4b92940806421420fdc1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. But the House is the master of its own destiny. The member is seeking leave. Is there any objection to that course? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec1ba330121b4a36b5711fd5dd38c680\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I have not finished. I have not put my whole leave yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd867273b3614b4b89d7eb8dd9096ab3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is already a wide-ranging debate. What is the member going on about? He is being dopey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224730a3481846407dbf45712f4696c6f5\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, I want it to be a very wide-ranging debate. Quite often, Mr Assistant Speaker, you will say that members can range across all matters that relate to the Government\u2019s financial policies when it comes to a bill like this. But I think there are issues about trust, integrity, and experience that the Government will not want to face too much discussion on\u2014issues that I would be very happy to have brought in here, particularly the one about the integrity of the Prime Minister, who, of course, has shopped five policemen in the South Island. That is what I am seeking leave for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af8ef117f87468998ee1fa923d62a4c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am on my feet. It is a wide-ranging debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac0e6bffca284d2384ca53c522d05977\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: We can see now why the National Party is in real trouble. Leaving aside the poll results for a second, I just say that when the leader of the Opposition was asked whether he thought his dithering on Iraq and other issues was responsible for National\u2019s dive in the polls, what did he say? He said: \u201CI can\u2019t say.\u201D Then what happened tonight? When asked whether Mr Goff was correct when he accused Lockwood Smith of asking American senators for support in order to push National Party pro-nuclear policy, what did Dr Brash say? He said: \u201CI can neither confirm nor deny.\u201D Well, well, well! I can see Simon Power smiling, because he is vindicated to a certain extent. What a sad Opposition, and what a difference a week makes in politics! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d9080508d84e94b0eb093eb205fa45\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Oh come on! You can\u2019t leave New Zealand First out of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4e37da1ca24e1ca3e3ccbf8aace948\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, and to be fair to New Zealand First members, I do not regard them as being a major part of the Opposition. But I think it is fair to say that at the appropriate points in time, when it has been important, and when the principles have been right, New Zealand First has supported the Government, and I do want to give it credit for doing that. It is not blind in its opposition, in the way we have seen the party opposite to be. I ask members opposite whether Kirkcaldie and Stains has had a sale this week, and whether orange is the colour of the ties on sale. What is the story? Why is such a high proportion of National Party front-bench members wearing orange ties today? It is an interesting approach. They used to have blue ones, then they had green ones, and now they have orange ones. They are getting ready to stop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI return to the debate. It is clear that our economy has been going through a period of sustained, solid growth that is well above OECD averages for the past 5 or 6 years. Between March 2000 and March 2005, 260,000 new jobs were created\u2014[Interruption] The member says some of them are casual, and he is absolutely right. But for a lot of people in my electorate, getting 40, 45, or 50 hours of casual work and money in the pocket to buy a house, pay the rent, and pay the bills, actually makes a difference. That might not make a difference to some of the New Zealand First members who have a silver spoon in their mouth, but it makes a lot of difference to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0abea6deae43f8b05c705fde83127f\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it appropriate for a member to refer to working 50 hours a week as \u201Ccasual\u201D labour, when we know that working 50 hours a week should be a full-time job, and there is no such thing as a 50-hour-a-week casual job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228452f02a22984b70958a28106b41ce5e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet. That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b491cec672746fdb7ce5588aa626587\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That just shows how out of touch members of New Zealand First are. A number of people have two and three jobs that build up to 50 hours a week. That is not an ideal situation\u2014it is one that is certainly improving\u2014but that member would deny those people those jobs, and that is very, very sad. And the member is now complaining because he does not get redundancy. Well, he will get 3 months\u2019 pay if he is not careful, with that sort of approach. I am not sure where he is on Winston Peters\u2019 list. Has New Zealand First put its list out yet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296518e0a8fc147d19f8cbfdc6cc0a80a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c6a70cb4c4f470ebd6e9c0d7085ada9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It has not put the list out. New Zealand First is a bit sneaky; it is waiting until the dissolution of Parliament so that Barbara Stewart and a number of others, including Ross Meurant, cannot complain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb2808869c734805901357930de18eb7\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Susan Baragwanath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251874fa1b47c44c5af7da64683a28522\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Who? Not seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282fb9d949b954007afd8d8004116ab33\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Read the newspapers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279d767ac219a42ebae054b87644ed000\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that would be very sad. That actually cracks me up. I always thought she was a Tory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210c5ced6b8954932878cedd8b595aea1\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Get on to National\u2019s tax policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e532f7a627f4cf4b597d57734214952\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I actually had a spot in my speech for the National tax policy, because John Key promised that 3 days after the date of the election was announced we would have the National Party tax policy. Have we got it yet? We do not have it, because it does not add up. I think that Bill English has a good point in his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228592401b7ea54bdf974a9e72ae658d05\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s the future leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb6845d56ec844ecbaaf621b5d5c6112\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know whether National\u2019s leader will be Bill English, whether Bill English will be John Key\u2019s deputy, whether John Key will be Simon Power\u2019s deputy, or whether Simon Power will be Katherine Rich\u2019s deputy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226582a792533b47f598beb69db850dd5d\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What about Gerry Brownlee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289fc3c889c984c1cbc5094fc56a70fd5\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: For goodness sake! The idea of Gerry Brownlee being on the front bench in 3 months\u2019 time does not bear contemplation. But I will say that this Imprest Supply Bill will ensure that we do have enough money to implement the decisions taken after the finalisation of these estimates to cover the demand-driven expenses and other risks and contingencies that will face the Government between now and later in the year. It seeks authority to incur expenses of $1,800 million and capital expenditure of $1,300 million. That is a similar amount to the amount sought last year, other than, of course, the treatment of GST, which has changed over that period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThere is a change, and I think it is important to note, that this bill seeks approval for the aggregate net asset holding of departments and Offices of Parliament to exceed the thresholds set in the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) bill. Approval for that is sought for an aggregate net asset holding of $16,000 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that as we progress and improve our arrangements that things are made clearer. There is a lot of money in the estimates for education. I am particularly proud as the Minister of Education, as well as an Associate Minister of Finance, that the resourcing that is going in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5ed81f81b994e529d7605551908c241\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: How come kids leaving school still can\u2019t read?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225657583b7eeb4498a087dd40fe0e927c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is fair to say that there is a decreasing proportion of kids whose literacy skills are not the best. But the member also knows\u2014because I know that Brian Donnelly told him\u2014that our kids\u2019 literacy is third in the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E Our 15-year-olds are right up at the top of the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff0ec0918bfa492a8f66eb7d630fd298\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Except the ones who can\u2019t read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e95c4a8bac4629b91c8ac0de8235a1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I refer to the ones who can read. Literacy is the ability to read. The member might recognise illiteracy as being a condition he is slightly more familiar with. The point I am making is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4c39449afd745ff937bf76a25d74157\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: What do you mean by that? I can read the writing on the wall for Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c0ba6592a94dc18af594a987523b3d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have actually looked at a poll trend over the last week or so for New Zealand First, and if that trend keeps going for another 2 weeks, that member will be in a particularly interesting position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI say to John Key that some people are looking forward to his contribution. I think that a lot of people now\u2014especially given the happenings earlier in the day\u2014are looking forward to this speech staking out his position for the period after the election, which would involve his shifting about two or three places to his left within the Chamber. There are some very high expectations on that relatively new member now. I regret the fact that urgent public business will stop me from staying to enjoy his speech, but I am looking forward to reports that, once again, he will outshine Don Brash in the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002221e537c12126479bafe0758b4c07e856\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221e537c12126479bafe0758b4c07e856\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E That was the Hon Trevor Mallard\u2014the Minister for muckraking. When the going gets tough around Labour, it does not roll out the intellectual giants. We do not see Helen Clark or Michael Cullen; we see the shin kicker, who is put in to try to roll out the mess. It is very interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWe are in the appropriation debate that started with Michael Cullen reading his sixth Budget in the House. That is the last time we saw Michael Cullen anywhere around that Budget, because it was so soundly rejected and trounced by the public of New Zealand that Labour cannot afford to roll out Michael Cullen any more. He is persona non grata. The Government has sent the Minister of Welfare for the tax debate and the shin kicker for the appropriations debate. We do not see Michael Cullen anywhere around anything economic. In fact, we are struggling to believe that we will see him in any of the debates on the hustings, because when the public see Michael Cullen and they leap back to economics, they will think only of Budget 2005. They will think of receiving 67c in 3 years\u2019 time and will ask whether that is as good as it gets after 6 long years of Labour. They will have to wait 9 years to get anything, and that is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EYesterday we saw something quite remarkable that relates to the appropriation debate. Trevor Mallard the muckraker could not help himself from continuing the previous roll he was on, and he launched into a press release attacking Westpac. He went after Westpac in one of the most vicious attacks that a Minister of the Crown has ever bothered to mete out to the financial markets. He did that not because Westpac\u2019s data was wrong; or the numbers in Brendan O\u2019Donovan\u2019s report were wrong\u2014that the student loan policy will not cost $300 million per year; it will actually cost $1 billion per year\u2014or the amount of debt on the New Zealand balance sheet will not rise from the current situation, which is about $35 billion, to about $47 billion in the next 10 years; or the Government will not have to write off $1.7 billion from its net worth in about 18 months\u2019 time. It was not for any of those reasons. He attacked Brendan O\u2019Donovan and Westpac because he did not like somebody who was independent of the Government actually calling it the way it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ETrevor Mallard\u2019s press release was backed up by the Prime Minister of this country, which was nothing short of disgraceful. It was an attempt to intimidate those who seek to challenge economic analysis and data from an independent, non-political, non-partisan basis. The message from the Government to such analysts was to not go there or the Government would mess them up in a very untidy fashion. That has been noted by analysts around the country, who have said that they will not be intimidated by a bully boy like Trevor Mallard, because there is no place in New Zealand\u2019s economic debate for that behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EWe saw something quite remarkable today. On the back of the document from Brendan O\u2019Donovan of Westpac, the most ridiculous and most intimidating press release that we have seen from a Minister of the Crown for quite some time\u2014Trevor Mallard\u2014and some very inappropriate statements from a Prime Minister of this country, a second bank came out and said that it would not be intimidated by Labour. That was the message. That bank came out and backed another bank that is its competitor. The message was that it would not be subject to stand-over tactics by Trevor Mallard, and that the Government\u2019s numbers were wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThis Government is trying to feed the people of New Zealand nothing short of a mistruth, which is quite wrong. The banks stood up, stood their ground, and were backed by the financial markets. I say: \u201CGood on them!\u201D for having the guts to stand up to Trevor Mallard, who is trying to intimidate independent commentary in this country. This is nothing short of a police State when Ministers of the Crown start acting in that way. My prediction is that Trevor Mallard will live to rue the day he did that, because when those numbers come back to haunt the Government\u2014if it ever gets a chance to roll that policy out\u2014it will know what weak ground it is on. I am very surprised indeed that Trevor Mallard, who is known to have stooped to some pretty low territory and who is down in the sewer at the best of times, has managed to get under the sewer pipes. That is how bad it has become for Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EToday we saw Phil Goff come down to the Chamber and launch his leadership bid. That is what he was doing in the House this afternoon. There was not one skerrick of truth in what Phil Goff was saying. He does not have the guts to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f4f36778664113a368dc4688f72640\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot refer to a member\u2019s lack of courage. The member will apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4d0ae5c7685456287d07a587ff0851f\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. He did not have the fortitude to come down to the Chamber today with the full transcript, because the Labour Party wanted to deal in little excerpts, and that was the way it would work. Phil Goff will regret doing that because the public of New Zealand have no place for that sort of muckraking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThat is why National has a Budget out there. We will see what happens on Budget day, because when the election rolls around in 46 days\u2019 time, one party will be out there. [Interruption] That is right\u2014bring it on! For the record, and for Trevor Mallard\u2019s benefit, I say that we want an election and that it cannot come soon enough. That is the view of the people of New Zealand as well, because when we go to the polls in 46 days\u2019 time, we will be standing up and telling honest, hard-working New Zealanders that we are behind them. The Labour Party may have forgotten about them. All those blue collar workers out there who toil from dawn to dusk, and who used to look to the Labour Party for a bit of support, will now look to the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EHere are the options. Option A is called Labour, in which one gets the option to fund a bigger booze allowance for more students and universities around the country. That is option A. The message from Labour to young New Zealanders is that they can feed themselves on a diet of debt, and that they should not bother working, striving to get ahead, or backing up the foundations this great country is built on. Instead, they should go out there, borrow more money, and, while they are at it, they should get their mates to borrow money, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOn ShareChat today I saw that a system was being organised to get that money and put it into interest-earning accounts. That is the message under Labour. My prediction is that 60 percent of New Zealanders who are at university or have studied currently have a loan. Only 60 percent have borrowed. Members should mark my words: the other 40 percent will be borrowing to the hilt\u2014as will the rest\u2014because they do not have enough brains to work out that this is not free money; it is even better than free money. They do not have enough brains to be at university, so they will borrow to the max. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOption A is the Labour Party, which is out there telling working New Zealanders that it does not care about them, that it does not care about people on building sites slogging their guts out first thing in the morning, and that it would much rather support a bigger booze allowance for students. Option B is the National Party, which will roll out a tax plan that says to working New Zealanders that it cares about them. They might have been forgotten for 6 years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273ff3bb0631542728f9993030e20b4f4\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Show us the money\u2014$50? How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236b5716805eb4fa39af9e51613b4d564\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Marian Hobbs is asking me to show the money. I make this prediction. It is a good thing that votes are anonymous, because in 46 days\u2019 time, when we go to the polling booths and when New Zealanders get a chance to vote, my prediction is that some on the Labour side will vote National with their party vote. It will not even be Labour Party members; we can forget about them. Labour Members of this Parliament will actually vote for National, because they will look at themselves in the mirror when they get up to go down to the polling booths and ask what sort of country they want. They will ask whether they want a country where there is only debt and where working New Zealanders have to pay for a bigger booze allowance for students, or whether they want the really strong message that when they get up and go to work in the morning there is something in it for them\u2014a fair day\u2019s pay for a fair day\u2019s work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ESome Labour members will vote for National with their party vote because they know a good thing when they see it. They will come over to the Opposition benches in the House\u2014there will not be many of them left in 46 days\u2019 time\u2014look across, and secretly in their heart of hearts they will know that they did the right thing for New Zealand. That will make them proud, even though they will be in Opposition, because they will know that National will not deliver a Budget that is so thick the messengers cannot even carry it into the Chamber. National will deliver a Budget that really makes sense for New Zealand, and I cannot wait for Budget day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI cannot wait for election day\u2014bring it on! I predict that many of those Labour members will vote National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b2e0b96bc0f41f199606df192a44ac4\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022725a8166bd454cd49685823b6fe8bd39\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f720aa5c4f416c9fd4fc3296276e1d\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I want to take this early opportunity to clarify and put in context a statement I made in the House this afternoon, in relation to which the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade subsequently tabled an edited document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade refused to release to me, under the Official Information Act, notes claimed to have been taken at a meeting I had with a group of visiting US senators. A confidential summary of notes taken at the meeting was eventually made available to me, but it contained none of the Minister\u2019s claim. Under the Privacy Act, part of what the Minister has claimed was released to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe allegation by Labour that I proposed a US-funded campaign to change our antinuclear legislation is utterly untrue. To the extent that the note released by Mr Goff implies that I wanted to invite a US think tank to run such a campaign in this country, is equally untrue. New Zealanders will note that Mr Goff continues to refuse to release the full notes from the meeting, because he knows that any balanced report of the discussion will show his Labour Government in the poorest of lights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb8472a6e2934aa39448befd468356ef\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002283eebe1b510b47578d2fbc9f85c0496b\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b2143ae24af46fcb43f0170319020c8\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257eabe10f5644494bba9367bc9ecdb3f\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000663\u0022\u003EDebate resumed on the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00224e2bd25691ec4a4184e87d1aded556f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e2bd25691ec4a4184e87d1aded556f4\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E And is that not sad? That is becoming the template of this Government. We can play the great spin doctor\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb920da33a4a468baab8fdd7356251c1\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Ron, this is for the big boys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022276e0eaa3ef74adb953d6c9c27be88c7\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: That, I tell listeners, is the plaintive cry of an about-to-become- extinct parrot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236d079bffb8b4b27a351d13b96b7799a\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226740db438cfd440f92971da3cde34fcf\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if they want to throw it around, it has got to come back\u2014boomerangs have a habit of doing that. This Government has a habit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e59d84ba8be54861807c5ca941c08fa5\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What seat do you represent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e26f6f32e5a46a6b932776a2c25e3dc\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go! This is the arrogant, elitist Labour Party. If the Government wants to know, if the public wants to know, and if the Labour Party wants to know why it has become so detached from its membership, there is the perfect example; the air of arrogance, the air of \u201CWe won. You lost. Eat that!\u201D, the air of \u201CI am a victim of my own success as a most popular and competent Prime Minister.\u201D, the air of Jill Pettis running around saying: \u201COh, New Zealand First is so unsophisticated.\u201D, and the air of a Labour Party whose members would rather attend a symphony concert or an art show, or be seen at the World of Wearable Art Awards in a costume\u2014doing the very things that it ridicules the National Party and supposedly its supporters for doing: flitting and flirting in high society but being so out of touch with working-class people that we end up with Ms Pettis uttering across the House: \u201CWhat electorate do you represent?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWell, the message for Ms Pettis is this: one is not superior, I tell the member, because one has an electorate as an electorate MP. Every MP in this House stands here on equal terms. Georgina Beyer, the person who sits beside that member, will no doubt be a list MP after this election. She is worth no less than Ms Pettis\u2019 pompous, arrogant, selfish self. That member should get the message now, because paid-up, card-carrying members of the Labour Party are sick of her arrogance and her elitism, and they are sick of her being out of touch. She displays all the airs that ooze from her Prime Minister\u2014that she would rather mix in high society with academia and the elite, rather flit through art galleries, than go and sit in a pub and talk to a working-class New Zealander who drives a bulldozer, or sit somewhere on the West Coast and talk to an unemployed seamstress who is redundant because a business has folded. Ms Pettis now, through Hansard, is immortalised in her arrogance, and we will carry that flame for her in the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to go to Ms Marian Hobbs and Mr Mallard, who sit here and champion the handling of the economy by their Government by proudly stating that they have created more work\u2014more employed and fewer unemployed. When I say that there are far more casual workers, and that the vast majority of the people they boast of as being employed are only casually employed, Ms Hobbs says: \u201COh, but we have casual workers doing 50 hours a week and three jobs.\u201D She is proud of that? Labour is proud of that? Labour is proud of the fact that working-class New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee0f87f794254a85a6435e7d4936da62\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229f37945315642169bf51d619a49e2ce\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: You had better make it damn clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258396a9688f7437a903a8481a5dc160c\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not intend to be intimidated like that across the House. Can that speaker withdraw and apologise for threatening me across the House by saying it had better be \u201Cdamn clear\u201D I make it clear? May he withdraw that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e28aa5d05a5445bf9dc69d27d3d2a9a5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask that the tone of the House ease a little bit. There was fault on both sides. The member is concerned about misrepresentation, and action about that can be taken only at the end of the speech. I ask Mr Mark to come to order, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63c6c6a1a0147b1985ac26470415e28\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt the member, but we find ourselves in a slightly tricky situation. If the Minister is saying that she has taken offence at Mr Mark\u2019s comments, then the Standing Orders deal with that in a very specific way. If she is not saying that she takes offence, then the manner in which you have ruled is, of course, absolutely correct. I think for the sake of creating the tone you desire, Mr Assistant Speaker, we should ask the Minister which of those camps she falls into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224332b8f8a24547db9630307fc550a0ff\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Can I clarify it, Mr Assistant Speaker? In the first place, the speaker on the floor misquoted me. I stood to say that, and he said, in a very threatening tone, for me to make myself clear. It was that that I took offence to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251bb5ec2a1b94176a01f2db589af4995\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The first part concerns misrepresentation, which is covered by Speaker\u2019s ruling 35/3. The second part is that one parliamentary indiscretion does not justify another. So there was fault on both sides; it is one all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a75c3b976174208a25bc73f7db80ac6\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: We live in a day and an age when Peter Brown stood in this House when the Employment Relations Bill was being passed, and tried to get this Government to incorporate within that bill recognition in legislation of, and protection for, casualised workers. Marian Hobbs voted against the Supplementary Order Paper, and Steve Maharey voted against that Supplementary Order Paper. Right now, Labour is boasting; Mr Mallard stood there and said that 50 hours a week of casual labour is a good job. Well, excuse me, but the average Labour voter thinks it sucks that people have to do three jobs to get 50 hours\u2019 employment a week\u2014with no protection from the Employment Relations Act, with no redundancy agreement, and with no holiday pay. It stinks! It stinks that Labour\u2014Ms Hobbs and Mr Mallard\u2014can interject across the House and tell members of New Zealand First that that is acceptable. It is not acceptable in this day and age. It is not acceptable that supporters of Labour, a party once led by Mickey Savage, Norm Kirk\u2014\u201CBig Norm\u201D\u2014and Mike Moore, should have to sit back and listen to those MPs in a Labour Government say that casual employment is a good thing. [Interruption] Ms Soper knows of what I speak. It is an abomination that Labour voters all over this country are working casual hours, and Labour says that unemployment is down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed4246bd0a2a4889a39020a34cfbfe35\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bbb85bc67844bbd8fd10044bb89bfc3\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Ms Hobbs, tell the House how many people are casually employed today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022118a9c9fe94a47e3a1d4e0b5a9c6de12\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: A lot are casually employed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022797abc659adc4907ad12026c552a1aa5\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: No, how many? Do you know why you do not know, Ms Hobbs? Because you have vetoed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e374aaa96264c34b42941de18266c01\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Do not bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b21b276a734bee8820a44d5df6eb97\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: No, I said \u201CMs Hobbs\u201D. Stop protecting her, Mr Assistant Speaker. Do you know why the Government does not know? Because it vetoed Peter Brown\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221772e9f5-5379-4bfe-9d9b-eaffb4c61b02\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294afb61be4d1404ea4bdd6d0cbc16e03\u0022\u003EHon Harry Duynhoven\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You might not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226644b5d1b105411b828f15e2d66dd65d\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! It hurts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f9371d882d49189f27dafc3f9ef664\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The member on my left well knows that when a point of order is being taken, it is to be heard in silence. I know what the Hon Harry Duynhoven will say, and I can say that I was not intimidated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923a9e2f71ac4089aaba8948d9084fb7\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the pattern that is emerging of interjecting and taking points of order is intended to shut me down, because I am hitting home. Labour voters all over the country know that this Government does not care about the number of people who are casually employed. Marian Hobbs says\u2014[Interruption] Did she just call me a liar? Marian Hobbs knows and has admitted that she cannot say how many casual employees there are, because the Government vetoed Peter Brown\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper that would have required the keeping of statistics on exactly that. I have only to ask Labour why. I ask Marian Hobbs why Labour vetoed that. Why? There is still no answer. I will ask Marian Hobbs again. Why did Labour veto that Supplementary Order Paper? That is the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260140379933c43628911678f35aaf0e2\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: P\u014Drangi!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cabae1e4a8b14768b962119a5e783d72\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: What does that mean? Does that require a ruling from you, Mr Assistant Speaker? I will move on, because Labour members are simply trying to use up my time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIn terms of Vote Police, what we are dealing with is exactly what I started my speech with: the silent innuendo. The Prime Minister was asked questions in the House today about the \u201CWaimate Run\u201D\u2014the equivalent of the \u201CCannonball Run\u201D\u2014which has resulted in five police officers and a civilian facing charges. She sat there in the sanctity and security of being the Prime Minister, totally above it all. What did she say in response to the questions that were asked? She said that the requirement is to tell the truth in the House. By implication, she said that she can say what she damn well likes on the street. She can go out on the street and say that she was totally oblivious to what was going on, because she was so busy working, because she had her head down in the back, reading Cabinet papers. Yet we in New Zealand First know that that motorcade would not have done what it did if she had said stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand First know that five police officers\u2019 families\u2014Dianne Yates just gave a big sigh. I will tell Dianne Yates this. This involves six families who have sat by and watched their partners and parents go through the stress and trauma of an investigation. Now those wives and children must watch those people go through the court procedure. Now they must sit there and wait, and wonder whether their families will have a job and an income. They know that one person could have put an end to it. But Dianne Yates\u2019 answer\u2014it is in Hansard, and, boy, are we going to use it\u2014is a sigh; she is bored. We will let the six families know that Dianne Yates is bored by our questions about what this Government thinks of their situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere it is again. What a lovely way to finish! I started speaking of the arrogance that has permeated Labour. I was once a proud member of Labour, but I do not look with pride upon the arrogance and contempt that came out of Jill Pettis\u2019 mouth earlier, and Dianne Yates\u2019 mouth just then. It reveals the underbelly of Labour. The underbelly of Labour is: \u201CWe\u2019ve been in Government for 6 years, we\u2019re going to be there for another 3, and we\u2019re above it all.\u201D Well, it is not above it all, and chances are it may not be in Government again. When that happens, Labour members will have time to sit on this side of the House and reflect on the utterances of those two women and the comment of the Prime Minister that she is required to tell the truth in the House only; that she does not have to fess up and support those police; she can sit by and watch them hang, when she knew precisely what was going on, when it was being done for her, and when she could have stopped it. It is just a repeat of \u201Cpaintergate\u201D and of her being a \u201Cvictim of her own success as a popular and competent Prime Minister\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u00224cc53223e9484454be65973e0a20072b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cc53223e9484454be65973e0a20072b\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E As we move towards the end of this Parliament, with questions finishing today and people doing valedictory speeches, people are looking forward to getting out on the hustings. Mrs Coddington told us that she wants to leave Parliament because she has no anger any more. I think Mr Mark was telling us that he wants to stay because he is about as angry as he could possibly be. That was a fairly angry, passionate, committed speech from him. I look forward to seeing Mr Mark out there on the hustings, telling people what he is actually committed to. The speech he gave really did not get to the heart of what this election will be about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI think this election will be about a very, very clear choice. There will not be a lot of parties left in this House after this election. MMP has got to the point where it is now maturing. People are starting to settle on what their choices will be. It seems to most pundits that the National Party and the Labour Party will offer people two different approaches to the future. I want to come back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b5d25bab59247b5936e14e615b32594\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I offer my sincere apologies to Mr Maharey for interrupting his speech, and I hope he believes me when I say that I am not doing this to interrupt his speech. Mr Speaker, I have just had a conversation with the Hon Marian Hobbs, who made it very clear to me that the comment she made across the House was not in support of the fact that New Zealanders, some of whom she knows, are working for 50 hours a week as casual labourers. She is not proud of that. She told me so, and she made it clear to me that my comments upset and offended her. I wish to offer the Hon Marian Hobbs an apology. I accept that she is an honest person, and when she says to me that she is not proud of that fact, then I accept that wholeheartedly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245882656b3d7492aa7ba03b8a57fe813\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that. I let you carry on. It was not a point of order, but\u2014all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228545a1cad9f746d8bbc6d8b408501a00\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of Ms Hobbs, I pass on that that was a noble act from somebody who obviously saw that there was a different way of looking at the issues. I was saying that I think that with MMP maturing the way it is, we are going into an election after which we will not have the same cast of characters back in this House. It is clear that Mr Nandor Tanczos and the Green Party are running reasonably well out there in the electorates, but when we look around the rest of the House we see, obviously, the demise of ACT, some deep trouble for United Future, and probably a reduced position for New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe contest will come down to two big, major pictures for the future. Those pictures really\u2014and it is good to see John Key in the House this evening\u2014will be driven by the choice in relation to a tax cut - driven agenda, which Ken Shirley, quite rightly, is spitting tacks over. He himself\u2014the ACT party\u2014drove the notion that tax cuts were the only way forward. Unfortunately since the arrival of Don Brash, the National Party has taken on that mantle, so ACT is irrelevant and Mr Shirley is on his way to one of his last drives back to the airport as a result of that. What we have in front of us is the tax cut agenda, which we know means cuts to social services, and borrowing\u2014exactly what happened last time a Government drove that formula\u2014versus what I would call the investment agenda: the agenda of the last 6 years. The investment agenda is about investing in health, investing in education, and investing in the things New Zealanders care about, like good housing, regional development, the police force, and all the things that have led to the stunning headlines around the world concerning this country. What does the OECD call us? It calls us a \u201Cjobs miracle\u201D. What does Lonely Planet call us? It calls us a \u201Chot country\u201D. What are we known as in the cultural and film world? We are known as virtually the world centre of arts and culture, whether it is in fashion, film, or music. All of those things add up to this little country of 4 million people having a staggering reputation all around the world for its economy, its society, its environmental leadership, and its cultural leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe National Party is offering to change that. Let us imagine really sensible people sitting down and asking themselves what they should offer New Zealanders at this election. We have a country that is running hot in the eyes of virtually every other leading country in the world, and National says to New Zealanders that it wants to take them in a radically new direction. That is after 6 years of amazing success, following decades of failure. Do people remember that incomes in this country fell every single year from 1972 until 1998\u2014and then what happened? Labour was elected. People should remember that incomes fell every single year. I am not sure whether Murray McCully is the National Party\u2019s strategist. I know that the great Liberace of the Opposition side of the House, the \u201Clounge Lothario\u201D Mr McCully, no doubt thought National\u2019s agenda up himself, as he thinks he is in touch with New Zealanders. He thought National should go out as the Opposition and offer to change everything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI just want to tell people that I am a local, provincial MP, as are Mr Darren Hughes and Ms Soper, who are sitting behind me. We are simple folk in the provincial centres. All that we want is to have evidence of what works. I would ask Mr Hughes whether that is not right. We do not want to hear fancy arguments from the sharebroker from London. We do not want all that market-speak. We do not want to hear all the stuff that comes from the eggheads across the road from Parliament. We do not want to hear all the stuff that comes from rich boys who live in huge houses, because the people we represent simply want to know what difference it would make to have this Government or to have another Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ELet us look at my province and at Ms Pettis\u2019 province, the Manawat\u016B-Whanganui region, with regard to jobs. Basically, at the end of the 1990s, after the National Government had finished with us in the Whanganui-Manawat\u016B region, we were arguing over who would turn the lights out when we left, because there was no growth. There were no jobs. Our biggest enterprise in the Manawat\u016B-Whanganui region was to export people out of the region. What is it like 6 years later? We went from an unemployment rate\u2014queue, if you like\u2014in the city of Palmerston North of 11,900 people. Do members know how many people are unemployed and on the unemployment benefit in Palmerston North today? There are 715 people. If we take businesses in Palmerston North, we find businesses were leaving in droves in the 1990s, one after the other. Light manufacturers were going somewhere else. When people come through and look at our city at the present time, they will see that EziBuy, a large mail-order fashion company, is pouring a concrete floor the size of about five football fields for its new factory. The largest refrigerator in the Southern Hemisphere is being built by Kapiti Cheeses, which also produces ice creams and so on, in the Manawat\u016B. That growth is happening in Palmerston North right now, and in Simon Power\u2019s electorate. He is very grateful to the Labour Government for stimulating the economy so that he has an electorate where things are absolutely happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4290223dc4a44b3980e066e8fe3c3a1\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a Labour MP at heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6bd125cb2f48e1ace3aee2ec2a0b63\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: That is what is being said at home. People are saying that Simon Power is a Labour MP because he backs growth and jobs, and he welcomes the fact that 500 more businesses are operating in Palmerston North since we came to power\u2014500. In the 1990s businesses were leaving; now they are coming. Those businesses have created 6,900 new jobs in Palmerston North in the last 6 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ELet us take an area like training. There are 10,000 people training in the Manawat\u016B-Whanganui area right now because of this Government. Modern Apprenticeships are giving young people a route into industry and a real job. Crime dropped by 15 percent in Palmerston North in the last year alone\u2014it is 15 percent down. We can walk through our square now; it used to be a place where people did not want to go. It is now a place where people want to go, because there is no crime for them to worry about when passing through that square. If we look at health, we see the spending on health is amazing\u2014and we have a base hospital. We are a place with a lot of retirement homes, and money has been flowing through that area\u2014$42 million has been budgeted for older care alone in Palmerston North. A tsunami of money for health has been coming through our region. It is the same in education. We also find that in the defence area it is the same. We are the defence capital of the country, and Simon Power knows that, as a former defence spokesperson. We are the defence capital of the country. There is $4.6 billion for defence, a large amount of which will flow through the Manawat\u016B region, because of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThat is all that Darren Hughes and Lesley Soper say when they are out on the hustings, and that is all that Ashraf Choudhary says. We say to people that they have a simple choice at this election: a tax cut agenda, with spending cuts, borrowing, and all the things we saw in the 1990s, or a track record of stunning success for our regions. We will not turn the lights off now. The lights are burning incredibly brightly in provincial centres like mine, because of this Government and its investments. In every meeting, when I finish, I ask people which box they will tick, and they say they think they will tick Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022 data-id=\u00222107dde7315949e6a545a5f5dd201c31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222107dde7315949e6a545a5f5dd201c31\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E What an incredible lot of crowing we have just heard from the Labour Government! Government members do not realise they have been picking the low fruit of the hard yards of the reform that was done through the troubled times of the 1980s, and that was carried on by Ruth Richardson in the early 1990s. They inherited those benefits, and are plucking the low fruit while they waste and squander the period of prosperity we have had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EWho really believes that Jim Anderton and the Labour Government turned round the Southland economy? Time and time again we hear the Labour Government claiming credit for it. It had nothing to do with its policies, whatsoever. The international dairy price and investment in dairying turned the Southland economy round, and Government members forget that point time and time again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EBut let us come to taxation. This has to be the meanest Government this country has ever seen. We actually have a rich Government but poor people, because this Government is taking the money from them. Government members think it is their money. If we talk to these folk, we find they actually believe that it is their money. They do not recognise that Governments do not have any money other than the money they take from hard-working people under the pretence that they can spend it better than those people. The hard reality is that they cannot. I do not know of any bunch of bureaucrats or politicians who can make better decisions on how money should be spent than those who worked for it, and can get a better outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EBut this Government believes that doing that is its right. If we look at Australia, across the Tasman, we see that Australians have just been given a comprehensive tax reduction across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f7fa92018941349871a56a268ee46a\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: $6 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022719030faebcb4516bdc65141d53e16f5\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Australian Government could afford it, I say to Mr Hughes. That Government could afford it, having a surplus. It could afford a comprehensive tax reduction on the basis of having a surplus of 1 percent of GDP. The Labour Government in New Zealand is sitting on a surplus of 4 percent of GDP\u2014a $7 billion surplus\u2014and it says it cannot afford it. The Government just wants to take more and more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EWhat does it spend it on? Let us look at some of the things the Government has spent it on\u2014for example, Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa. Last year alone, $239 million of hard-working Kiwis\u2019 money was gouged out of them and just thrown out, and this Government was totally culpable for that. Its tertiary education policy was a sham and a farce\u2014an absolute sham and a farce. Anyone could enrol in any course. There was no measure of quality, no check on the numbers, and no integrity. People just turned up and were bums on seats. The Government threw taxpayers\u2019 money at the w\u0101nanga; it threw it out of the window. That is the trademark of this Labour Government: it just shovels taxpayers\u2019 money out of the window with gay abandon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EWell, I have news for the Labour Government. Global economies go in cycles, and we have had the good times. The Government has chewed the fat, wasted it, and not carried on with the reforms that were desperately needed in this country. When the cycle turns, who will we be blaming? Successive generations of New Zealanders will look back on this Labour Government; sure, it got two terms\u2014that is quite a record for a Labour Government in itself; it does not happen very often\u2014but it is the culprit. Its members were the ones who squandered the opportunities through the good times, on bad spending and a lack of courage or vision actually to carry on the reform processes that were urgently required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EIf we look around the world at all successful economies, we see that not one of them has become successful by increasing taxation. Essentially, only one OECD country has increased taxation in the last 6 years, and which one is it? Let us have a guess. It is New Zealand. New Zealand is the only OECD country that has increased taxation. If we look at the miracle economies of the former Soviet bloc that are experiencing growth and progress\u2014Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, and the Czech Republic\u2014we see their tax is down at 12 percent. They are former Soviet bloc countries. They learnt the lesson of the big State\u2014that central command policies do not work. They have gone to 13 percent tax. Investment is flowing in. They are getting significant growth, and their people have rising prosperity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EHere we have a very wealthy, flush Government, but very poor people. New Zealanders are not any better off than they were 6 years\u2019 ago, in spite of the so-called good times, because this irresponsible Government has squandered it\u2014absolutely squandered those hard-earned reforms and the benefits that flowed from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003ELet us look at the energy sector in this country. What an absolute mess! There has been no significant investment in new generation. There has been no investment in the national grid for 10 years. It is right at the end of its limits, and this Government\u2014this outgoing Labour Government\u2014has made a succession of policy decisions that are fundamentally against the better interests of New Zealand, such is its eagerness to rush in and sign up to the Kyoto Protocol. Finally the chickens are starting to come home to roost. What a stupid thing to have done! We are the only Southern Hemisphere country with a Kyoto obligation. We are the only ASEAN country with an obligation. Only two other APEC nations, Japan and Canada, have the obligation that we have imposed on ourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EI put it to members that if we look at the New Zealand economy, we see that we have three advantages compared with other nations. One is actually climate. Our moist, or relatively moist, temperate climate is actually what underpins our biological economy and our production. The second key factor has been a relatively well-educated population, and I think we are sliding there. The third factor has actually been an abundant supply of competitively priced energy. The policy of this Government is actually to drive up the price of energy so that its chosen renewables, be it wind or whatever, become competitive. That is a recipe to destroy the New Zealand economy\u2014an absolute recipe for destruction. Yet this Government is proud of the fact. It wants to drive up the price of energy. New Zealand\u2019s energy supply is one of our key comparative advantages as a trading nation; fewer economies are as dependent on trade as we are, yet the Government is hell-bent on destroying and throwing away that comparative advantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe ACT party does favour low taxation. We always have, right from day one. When we came to this Parliament in 1996 we were advocating lower taxation. We were the only party doing that then. We could not get the then National Government to move. It did not see the wisdom of lower taxation. Fortunately, National has now come to its senses and has recognised the meaningful nature of lowering taxation to get investment and growth in the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EBut I think the outgoing Labour Government will be most condemned for the way that, on the social side of policies, it failed to carry on the reforms that were required. It had the opportunity, it had the money, and it had the good fortune to inherit the structure that gave us a time of prosperity, and it squandered it, wasted it, and flushed it away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022620abe21823742cfa3296913700ad434\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022620abe21823742cfa3296913700ad434\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The member who has just resumed his seat has a bible. It is called \u201CUnfinished Business\u201D. The business remains unfinished. The party will be finished. The low-tax policies that are promoted by the ACT party have fallen into disfavour to an extent, and just the same the member continues to promote the idea that the electorate has rejected. I must say that the ACT party is consistent. It has been consistent from its outset, and it has been consistently wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe ACT party is not of much concern to me, but Ken Shirley, who resumed his seat, did make some interesting comments about energy. He said that there was no generation going in, and that there was not enough investment. He said that we had put up the price of electricity in order to get our favoured wind generation away, etc. Then he went on, in a remarkable admission in the same speech\u2014actually, it was within 1 minute of that\u2014to say that one of our great advantages as a nation was a reliable, equable, mid-latitude island climate. That is what the Kyoto Protocol is about, and, yet a minute or two earlier that gentleman had spoken against Kyoto, even though it is easily the best opportunity we have to protect that which the same member holds dear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EHere are a few facts about the energy scene. The price of M\u0101ui gas was set about 30 years ago in a contract, and it has risen by half the rate of inflation for all of those 30 or 35 years, which is why gas out of M\u0101ui is worth $2 or $1.80 a gigajoule. It is a subsidised fossil fuel, and the M\u0101ui gasfield, unsurprisingly, is running out. That is what happens when one subsidises the price of anything. The replacement gas is not $1.80. It is about $6.50 or $5.50 a gigajoule, depending on the gasfield involved. That, more than anything, is what has been driving electricity prices in this country. Wind generation has another story to tell. Wind generation in this country got under way because of carbon credits, which exist because of Kyoto. Without the protocol there would be no credits, and no wind energy. The member should get that. There was a loop to be closed there, and this Government did it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut as far as the National Party is concerned, one would never know what its policy was on energy. National has had a different energy spokesperson about every 6 months. It has never recovered from the disaster of Max Bradford, who decided that a person who owned a lines company could not own an electron flowing through it. The remarkable restructuring that took place at that time did this country no good at all. That man said that on 1 April 1999 electricity prices would fall, and they did not. They rose, and Max Bradford left politics as a result of that. That member made a mess of the portfolio, and the subsequent National Party energy spokespeople have never got their heads around it. That is why National continues to change its energy spokesperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255157744ad444e96ac819f432a8392f9\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Who is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f191074cc6cd4f4e96b0bb1d94617f86\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know whom the present energy spokesperson is. It used to be Pansy Wong. It used to be Roger Sowry, but he gave his valedictory speech today, so it cannot be him. It used to be Gerry Brownlee, but he found energy too difficult and took up M\u0101ori affairs instead. I do not know whom the spokesperson is. It may be Simon Power, but I thought he was the whip. The point is that the National Party does not have a good policy on energy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EActually, National does not have much of a policy on anything. It has a tax policy, which is yet to be released. It has a nuclear policy times nine, it has an Iraq policy times seven, it has an issue about the ownership of schools times five, and it has a view about health organisations times three. It depends on the time of the day, it depends on the audience, it depends on the mood, and it depends on the poll ratings\u2014it depends on those things. The National Party will not be able to print a manifesto, unless it is one that has so much sandpaper over it that one will not know what National stands for. The National Party does not know what it stands for, and if one does not know what one stands for in politics, one should not stand. Yet the National Party has decided to contest this election by saying that that kind of platitude, generalisation, and vagueness will get it through. Well it will not, because the democratic process is about close scrutiny\u2014close scrutiny on television, close scrutiny in the town hall, and close scrutiny in the newspapers. Close scrutiny will result in people seeing the National Party for what it is: a bunch of flip-floppers\u2014a bunch of people who have a point of view that changes at every occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E That is not the fault of most of the National caucus. The fault rests with the leadership. The fault rests with the leadership, because National\u2019s leader has, in earlier times, spoken freely and given his mind. There was Dr Brash\u2019s comment on nuclear ships that they would be \u201Cgone by lunchtime\u201D, his comment that \u201CFrankly, I do not care who owns the schools\u201D, and the idea that he would have followed President Bush into Iraq\u2014those three will do. There are plenty of other examples, like: \u201CIf a person was associated with the local marae, I probably wouldn\u2019t employ him.\u201D\u2014a further statement by Dr Brash. As the heatwave has come on Dr Brash\u2014as the blowtorch has gone on him\u2014he has found himself changing his position, to make it less unacceptable. He has said things like: \u201CThese are irrelevancies.\u201D, \u201CThis is not the issue of the day.\u201D, and \u201CWe will have a referendum on the nuclear issue.\u201D A referendum on the nuclear issue\u2014called by whom, I wonder? Would it be called by the National Government, if there were ever to be one? There is silence on that. Would it be called by the Americans? Well, we know that Lockwood Smith wanted the think tank to come and soften us up, but the Americans, bless them, said that no, that was our business, and that they would not interfere in domestic policy. That is exactly what the Americans said. There are somewhat higher standards from US senators than we see from our own Opposition MPs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut the question does arise: who would call the referendum on the nuclear power issue if National ever formed a Government? National has not yet answered that question. Under what pretext, under what circumstances, for what reason, and over what period of time might National arrange for there to be a referendum? Would it be in the first 3 years? No answer has been given. So, even now, on the nuclear issue, just to pick on one issue\u2014it is such a simple thing, because the answer is either yes or no, which is why it is a good political issue to pick on\u2014we cannot get an answer from National. We can get only seven answers. That is exactly what is wrong with the National Party, as it finds itself 6 weeks and 3 days out from an election. It does not have a firm view on anything. Of course, if National did have a firm view and I felt that that view was wrong, it would be a different thing. We would then contest for the 4 million New Zealanders\u2014those amongst them who have votes\u2014to say who will win at the election. But we do not know where the National Party stands, because it flip-flops. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EWhat we do know is that the underlying rhetoric of National\u2019s leader is radical. It is swirly-eyed; it is really very different. It is really quite scary. The gentleman is rather odd. We know that about the National Party leader. We do not need to go to his utterances to learn that; we can just read the authorised biography. We know the gentleman is odd. But what we do not know is what National would do in Government. We suspect it would be radical, and we suspect there would be significant change. We suspect we would go back to the future, in a rerun of the 1990s. But we cannot tell what National would do, because National has not said clearly what its policy is. We are 6 weeks and 3 days away from polling day. It really is time for the National Party to front up, to stop flip-flopping, to stop trying to disguise its policy, to come clean on what its policy is, to have the courage to say what its policy is, to spell it out, to give it some detail and to point out where the detail cannot yet be determined, because that is fair enough, and to put its policy out clearly to the public, so that we know what the National Party, in the year 2005, stands for. No one seems to know that now, because it does depend on the time of the day, the speaker, and the audience. That is not the way to run a democracy, and National will get caught out, as we move closer and closer to a campaign, for having more than one viewpoint on virtually any subject, really. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EPrimary health organisations would be a cracker. Would they be gone by lunchtime? Would they be gone slowly? Would National just amalgamate the little ones first? Would it change their governance? Would National turn them back, in order that they come under greater control from general practitioners? Would National require primary health organisations to have high levels of auditing? Would it get rid of them by punishing them with high levels of compliance? Or would National get rid of them in a clean sweep? That is not clear. We do know that National does not like primary health organisations, even though New Zealanders do, and even though New Zealanders enrol in them at a huge 99-point-something percent rate. We know that New Zealanders like primary health organisations and we know that those organisations are working, but we do not know how National would get rid of them. We just know that National does not like them. We just know that the primary health organisations would go backwards, but we do not know the detail of how that would occur. National itself, perhaps, does not know that, and it has 6 weeks and 3 days to find out. If National does not have a clear position by then, we will tell people what its position is and National will be in the position of having to deny that. That is how it works. So, too, it is the case on almost any other subject. The National Party needs to know what it stands for, because it is about to stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac08f2de8e0f43ff9605cb5133c2c587\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac08f2de8e0f43ff9605cb5133c2c587\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard very clearly the urgency in the tone used by the Hon Pete Hodgson together with the other two speakers, Trevor Mallard and Steve Maharey, to see a National Government in 6 weeks\u2019 time. The Hon Pete Hodgson cannot wait. We heard the anxiousness in his speech. Do members know why? None of those three Labour members who have spoken in the debate mentioned even once the last Budget speech of the Hon Michael Cullen. In fact, Labour members want to put that nightmare Budget behind them. I bet all of them, like the public, cannot wait to see the incoming Minister of Finance, the Hon John Key, deliver an alternative budget, because Labour simply does not know how to proceed. It has totally run out of options and solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EWhere is the Hon Michael Cullen\u2019s KiwiSaver? Why are no members standing in the Chamber to say they can campaign for the so-called third-term Government on this Budget 2005? They have thrown the Budget away. The Hon Michael Cullen, the Minister of Finance, preached to the public to be fiscally responsible, and said there was no fat in the Budget to reward hard-working New Zealanders. Oops! Suddenly $300 million came up from nowhere for interest-free student loans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003ELet me lay out the reasons why Labour is so anxious, in a tone that we can hear, for National to come in, and to see John Key\u2019s budget, because Labour cannot proceed. Look at education. What is the solution? I refer to Labour\u2019s pre-school policy. Its own Minister, from Auckland, does not even know which pre-school childcare facility would qualify for the 20 hours. We have the carers calling for Labour to scrap that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EHow about schools? They have no answer, because Trevor Mallard, not too long ago, wanted to close 300 schools. Oops! He changed his mind. I refer to tertiary education. What is the answer? The answer is 200 bureaucrats. The Hon Michael Cullen talked about quality education\u2014singalong courses that were supposed to be closed down. When? It was last year. Well, I have bad news for Labour. Enrolments were still open until yesterday. Another class is to start in August. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThen, worse, student loans\u2014what is the answer? Interest-free loans! Pete Hodgson mentioned that National members should stand and be prepared for close scrutiny. Well, he is a fine one to talk! When the Westpac economist scrutinised the so-called $300 million cost, he came out with a figure that was at least double, and it could rise to a billion dollars. That is amazing, is it not? Labour does not like scrutiny. Labour does not like its numbers to be scrutinised. So here we go. Education has nowhere to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI want to tackle the Hon Pete Hodgson, because he wants to talk about solutions. Nobody would be able to tell or to predict this about the Hon Pete Hodgson. He was the Labour Opposition spokesperson on energy for 9 years. When he became the Minister of Energy his first policy was to seek an inquiry into the energy sector. He was 9 years in Opposition, and his first role as Minister was to ask for an inquiry. Even today, I do not think that people out there actually know what Labour\u2019s policy on energy is\u2014whether it is more wind farms: not possible due to objectors using the Resource Management Act. The next minute it wants clean fuels, and suddenly it comes up with a concession for the oil exploration industry. What a contrast! Then there is the billion-dollar problem with the Kyoto Protocol. How can people have confidence in Labour? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EWhat about the police? We thought Labour had spelt out its commitment for a safe New Zealand community and that it would put some money into police. Now the word on the street is that it will come up with even more money for the police. But people are still looking for police on the streets. Everywhere I go, including public meetings, it is obvious that every single individual who turns up to public meetings tells all the candidates that priority for police, under Labour, is on issuing tickets. No matter how much Labour members try to convince the public that New Zealand is now enjoying its safest period, and that the police have the highest budget, no single individual whom I have come across throughout New Zealand actually believes that Labour has any answers for keeping the New Zealand community safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThat is why during all those three speeches none of those members was proud enough to talk about Michael Cullen\u2019s Budget. Instead, I could hear the pleading in their voices that they wanted to hear about the alternative budget of John Key\u2014the incoming Minister. They seemed to be secretly asking us to help Labour because they did not know which way to turn, or where to lead New Zealand in terms of Michael Cullen\u2019s word that the long-term economic and social health of New Zealand is waiting to be improved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EIn the last 6 long years Labour has just squandered the best economic situation and conditions that have faced New Zealand. It did nothing but reconfirm that Labour is a high-tax and income redistribution party that, basically, is keen only to tax people and then hand it out to its favourite groups, without paying any attention or respect to hard-working New Zealanders. It holds the business sector in contempt. It has absolutely no respect for business. I do not know why. That is the sector that provides jobs, but it gets nothing from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe fact is that everywhere I go I am asked what sort of a Government it is that would insult its citizens by telling them, after 6 years, that they have to wait another 3 years to get a 67c tax cut per week. That is why there is silence on Dr Michael Cullen, the Minister of Finance, and they have chosen to forget this Budget statement. The 2005 Budget is a total failure for Labour and I can tell that all members opposite are anxious and waiting to see what National will come up with. They are waiting for a new Minister of Finance who has an alternative budget that would reward New Zealanders, not subject them to high taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00223e8f32af93e64ed282dae1ba1c7495e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e8f32af93e64ed282dae1ba1c7495e2\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It relates to a point of order that I raised with the Speaker in the Chair earlier in the debate. The chief Government whip used a M\u0101ori word to describe me, as she walked across the floor of the House. She used the word at least twice. I asked the Speaker whether he was going to allow that reference to go unchallenged. He did not intervene, and I continued with my speech. I subsequently checked that M\u0101ori word, and I now ask you to see whether Jill Pettis wishes that word to stand; otherwise will she accept that I might refer to her as kairau in the future. I ask whether she is prepared to stand, withdraw, and apologise for calling me a drunk, in M\u0101ori, and getting away with it. I take extreme exception\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f03c1559e66489e967741be68b52880\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made his point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a0ef123c19d4c318179ca97c19b5065\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: So I can call her kairau any time I like?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd9374eaf5084acdb6292672d83b8b7b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: No, we cannot get into hypothetical situations. The member Jill Pettis said something in M\u0101ori. She should have translated it. I ask her to translate, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u00224656215fe7be45d19dbc37d500eff1ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224656215fe7be45d19dbc37d500eff1ad\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I said \u201Cp\u014Drangi\u201D, which means mad. But if the member is tired and emotional and has taken offence, I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002289d16ab0139e4326a3001285ed901d0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289d16ab0139e4326a3001285ed901d0b\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a further point of order, Mr Speaker. I much prefer a gracious, magnanimous withdrawal, but if it is beyond that member to do such a thing, then we will let it lie where it lies, and will deal with it in public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d28a8f25802430daf921895591f73bb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Pettis is quite aware that a withdrawal should not be qualified. An apology would be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u0022869ec0c24fc74689b505e97499f73cfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022869ec0c24fc74689b505e97499f73cfd\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c775c8fdaf7442bb250ff229deb5fd4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3feb5d0549d4edbb73454e07cecffab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3feb5d0549d4edbb73454e07cecffab\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E There are 6 weeks and 3 days until the election. Obviously, it cannot come soon enough for some people in this House, who are looking forward to a long holiday indeed. In fact, the bell is about to toll for a large number of MPs and parties in this House. It is past time for some of them to front up, speak up, and own up to New Zealanders as to what their policies will do to New Zealanders. It is time that those politicians put on record what their policies are, so that New Zealanders can make their choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI have to say that Don Brash and the National Party have been playing New Zealanders for suckers, week in and week out, in this Parliament and in the little meetings in halls that they have been holding around New Zealand. They have been playing New Zealanders for suckers. Don Brash has been doing the equivalent of a political striptease with his major policy plank. He has been doing the political striptease with his tax cuts. It is a sordid little peep show that he has been teasing New Zealanders with. He is the proverbial teaser of the voter. What he has been doing is talk about when he will announce the tax cuts. I want to take New Zealanders who are listening tonight on this political striptease of Don Brash and his tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EOn 1 April this year he said that he did not propose to announce National\u2019s tax policy, and that, indeed, he would defer any detailed announcement on its tax policy until after the Budget on 19 May. On 13 May he said that not long after the 19 May Budget, in the run-up to the election, he would be announcing a very different set of policies from those of Helen Clark\u2019s Government, and that lower taxes on families would be firmly on the agenda. The next day the National Party leader, Don Brash, said to the Otago chamber of commerce that National\u2019s tax policy would be announced in the next 2 or 3 weeks. When was that? That was on 14 May. We got to the next day, 15 May. He said that National would lessen the burden on hundreds of thousands of middle-income families, and would be announcing its policy once it had seen what was left in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe Budget was on 19 May. Obviously, National members are slow readers, as we hear from the rest of the story. On 21 May, at the launch of his post-Budget roadshow, Dr Brash confirmed that he would offer big tax cuts to all workers, but he refused to repeat the Budget night assurance that it would amount to billions of dollars. John Key had told New Zealanders, in the Sunday Star-Times, that the tax cuts would amount to billions, not hundred of millions, of dollars. Dr Brash refused to confirm that figure or to provide details of National\u2019s tax plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EHe said on 21 May that he would be announcing details of the tax cuts in a few weeks\u2019 time. Well, we got to 22 May, and Dr Brash said that National would bring in a tax system that rewards enterprise and rewards skill and hard work, and that he would announce it in a few weeks\u2019 time. That was on 22 May. On 23 May Dr Brash said that he hoped to provide wide-scale tax relief for New Zealanders, to restore some kind of incentive for hard work and initiative, but that we would have to wait because he intended to announce it in a few weeks\u2019 time. It was reported that he said that teasingly on Morning Report on 23 May. Well, we got to 26 May and he said that National\u2019s tax policies could not be announced until after the Budget. Well, the Budget had been the week before! He said that National would announce them shortly, in the next few weeks\u2014that he would do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBy 11 June he had this to say: \u201CThe reality is we will announce our tax policy well ahead of the election. We said we would do it in a few weeks, after the Budget was announced.\u201D National was going to do it a few weeks after the Budget was announced; we were now at 11 June. \u201CWhy are you holding this back?\u201D, asked the presenter; \u201CIs it for strategic advantage?\u201D. Dr Brash said: \u201CThat is correct.\u201D This is all about strategic advantage. It has nothing to do with wanting to be honest and upfront with taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThen we got to 6 July, and Dr Brash said this: \u201CWe will be revealing more and more bits of policy over the next few weeks.\u201D Then we got to 7 July, and he said: \u201CWe will be rolling it out next month. We don\u2019t have a particular date in mind. We want to see when the election will be.\u201D Then we got to 13 July. He said: \u201CWe will put it out in our own good time. Just ask Helen Clark when the election is, and at that point I will tell you exactly when we will announce our tax policy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe have had this political striptease going on since April this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022178f15a1c2d54118afb8073caf9b10f7\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re down to the pyjamas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0285f30a0d43ba856762dd60964789\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: We are not down to the pyjamas; we are down to the Y-fronts, and people are waiting eagerly for the final act, so that they can see what lies beneath. I have a terrible feeling it is going to be a great disappointment to many, many New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EJohn Key said there will be tax cuts by Christmas if National is in Government. So not only have we had this slow striptease about the tax cuts but we are told that if National is in Government, we will have them before Christmas. Of course, that all changed quite quickly when Don Brash heard about that. Of course, a National Government could not actually give tax cuts before Christmas. A few things would have to happen before it could do that. First of all, it would have to decide who is going to get them. Along the way, Dr Brash has told us that every single New Zealander would get a substantial tax cut. Do members know what New Zealanders are saying? They are saying that \u201Csubstantial\u201D means 50 to 100 bucks a week. That is substantial. That is what they are expecting. Every hard-working New Zealander, toiling away out there, is expecting between 50 and 100 bucks a week. That is what would make a difference; that is what people say would make them vote National. I can tell members that those people will be very, very disappointed. It will be the final act of treachery when National takes off the last veil and there is nothing there at all. It will be a great disappointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe heard today from Dr Brash about the fact that this Government has announced a very attractive student loan policy. He said it is a bribe to the voters, and how dreadful it is to have a cynical bribe to the voters like that. Of course, promising a substantial tax cut to every single New Zealander is not a bribe, at all; no, it is just sensible policy! It is what parties do when they are in Opposition!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe then get to National\u2019s promises on health. I have been looking for the policy. I have searched for the policy. I have been on Google. I have read everything I could. I have read the New Zealand Herald and I have read the Dominion Post. I have read the websites. Have we found a health policy? No, we have not. But I did read the general election report in Pharmacy Today. There is a little bit of policy there! It is the first little bit of policy I have found. It states: \u201CThe National Party supports the amalgamation of district health boards.\u201D Well, let me tell Jill Pettis\u2014and perhaps Mr Power would be interested\u2014that the Whanganui District Health Board would be gone under National Party policy. So would the Taranaki District Health Board. They would be amalgamated with Palmerston North\u2019s. That is where they would be. National should tell the people of Tauranga and the people of Rotorua, because their boards would be amalgamated with Waikato\u2019s. National should tell the people in the far north; their board would be amalgamated with Auckland\u2019s. And so on, down New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe are talking about a party that would force amalgamations of district health boards up and down New Zealand. That is not what the people necessarily want, and it is not what they will be consulted on, but because National needed a policy\u2014it had to have something to say\u2014it would force amalgamations. Well, I would like to see National impose that policy on New Zealanders. It will not work. When it comes to local government amalgamation, Dr Brash said National is in favour of amalgamating councils. Of course, when it comes to the local council we notice the views of political candidates such as the National Party candidate in Otaki. He is suddenly not in favour of this sort of amalgamation. He is saying: \u201CAmalgamate everybody else but not my council.\u201D So let us see how this policy would work. It is a half-baked approach to health, but is about the best we have from National so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a30f5a583d2f451aba67c64534e39836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a30f5a583d2f451aba67c64534e39836\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E This is the sixth Budget since Labour became the Government, and as the last Budget of Labour\u2019s second term it is perhaps a good time to assess its overall economic management over the last 6 years. In conventional terms, using the conventional measurements of economic management, Labour has been very successful. Economic growth in the last 6 years has been much higher than in the previous 9 years. The unemployment rate is down, and although business always grizzles no matter who is in Government, business has, on the whole, been pretty happy. The latest Budget gives advances in access to housing, in family support, and in workplace savings. But along with the growth in GDP a lot of other things have grown too, and there is somehow a reluctance to talk so much about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EEconomic growth has been driven to a considerable extent by immigration: building housing and providing the infrastructure for extra people. So house prices have grown. House prices have grown to the point that for more and more ordinary New Zealanders, owning a house is completely unaffordable. Some middle-income New Zealanders can see no way of getting on the housing escalator, at all. Along with GDP growth, traffic congestion has grown. In Auckland it has grown out of sight. There is a limit to how much space in a city can be taken up with roads and vehicles. Along with traffic congestion, the time that it takes to get from one side of Auckland to the other has grown, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E We have had a lot of growth in the last 6 years. We have had a lot of growth in the dairy industry, and with that we have had a lot of growth in nitrate runoff from our farms into our waterways. We have had a lot of growth in water pollution, to the point where the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research now tells us that 95 percent of our lowland rivers and streams are not fit to swim in, let alone to drink.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dac67882c5eb4c559d743c52c605a9e5\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but I for one think it is the height of rudeness for there to be these types of sit-around conversations, and for people to have their backs to the Speaker, while Jeanette Fitzsimons is trying to make a contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550f243318f9439ab18522261f8f6292\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for raising that; he is quite right. The member has now moved away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e99d4baab8894fa38dd541078e0884f6\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: Along with the growth in GDP we have had huge growth in the use of energy, both transport fuel and electricity, and along with that we have had a huge and rapid growth in greenhouse emissions. They have grown faster than GDP has. For every unit of GDP growth we have had even more units of growth in greenhouse emissions, to the point where quite a healthy half a billion dollars of projected Kyoto Protocol credit has turned into a projected half a billion dollars of Kyoto deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe other deficit that has doubled in this time is the trade deficit. We have paid for the growth in our exports by an excess of imports and, of course, by the undercutting of local industries as we import more and more from countries with cheap labour. Student debt during those 6 years has more than doubled\u2014from about $3 billion when Labour came to power to $7 billion today. That is an albatross round the necks of many of our young people, who will not ever manage to get a home together or to have a family, unless that burden is relieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThose things are seen conventionally as simply the costs of a successful economy. They are regarded as a shame, but the important thing is thought to be that the economy grew. Therefore, it is argued, we just have to put up with the consequences of having more traffic, more greenhouse gases, more pollution, more of a trade deficit, and more student debt. In fact, the operation has been a complete success; it is just unfortunate that the patient died! So much for looking back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWhen I look forward, I hope there will be a third-term Labour-led Government, but at the moment we are seeing no big new ideas for that third term. We can predict that stable economic management will continue as long as the real world does not change. But actually the real world will change. It is changing now, and there is no vision for how we could address the big challenges that are coming. In fact, there is no recognition that there are big challenges coming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI refer members to the Christchurch Press of 30 June this year, which had a whole list of reports that together added up to a significant warning. Half the Nelson fishing boats, the Press reported on that date, had stayed in port because fuel costs made it uneconomic to go fishing. Cropping farmers in Canterbury were considering scaling down their production because of the costs of diesel, which had risen in a little over a year from 55c per litre to 93c per litre. Federated Farmers said that fuel for farming is one of the biggest costs of business now\u2014for machinery, for irrigation pumps, and for transporting fertiliser. Freight costs have risen by 40 percent and freight charges by 10 percent. The Press further reported that community-care workers were seriously considering whether they could continue to do home visits, because of the cost of fuel and the lack of a budget to pay for those transport costs. What will happen to people marooned in their homes by their health needs, if it is not possible for the district nurse to visit their homes any longer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe airlines are all charging a fuel surcharge on their fares. Why is that? While the price of crude oil has doubled in 2 years, New Zealanders have been protected from that by the high exchange rate of our dollar, but that rate is now starting to fall. We could well be hit with the double whammy of crude oil prices continuing to rise and the falling exchange rate of the New Zealand dollar exacerbating those price rises. Last year the December Economic and Fiscal Update predicted that the crude oil price would fall to $43 per barrel by March of this year\u2014that is, fall to $43 per barrel by March 2005. Today it is $62 a barrel. The Budget Economic and Fiscal Update in May predicted that the price of crude oil would fall to $47 a barrel. Currently is it $62 a barrel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThis Budget totally ignores the oil prices that underpin our economy. It makes no concession at all to that change in the fundamentals, pretending that it is some kind of temporary blip caused by geographic factors, by unrest, or by other short-term interruptions to supply. But those so-called short-term and temporary interruptions have been going on for several years now, and alongside them we have predictions that we are actually at the end of the age of cheap oil. We are entering the age of very expensive oil, which comes before the age when we can get very little oil at all. This Budget threw another $100 million at roads, on top of the extra 5c a litre tax on petrol and a record number of litres being used. Then, post-Budget, Dr Cullen threw another half a billion dollars\u2014which he has suddenly discovered\u2014at roads as well. The Government says it is not just for roads but is for land transport, which includes public transport. But, actually, until the Government changes the financial assistance rate, none of that money will be spent on public transport. It cannot be spent on public transport because local and regional authorities cannot raise their rates high enough to pay their share, without which they get nothing from the National Land Transport Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EMore than two-thirds of our car imports are used vehicles now, and three-quarters of them are more than 7 years old. Our motor vehicle fleet is becoming older every year, it is becoming dirtier every year, and it is becoming less fuel efficient. Twenty-two percent of the new cars that come into New Zealand are sport utility vehicles. Every year we use more and more fuel to travel 100 kilometres than we did in the past. Fuel efficiency is going backwards. We have not had a word of warning from the Government about how we will afford to run all those inefficient vehicles, how we will maintain the huge numbers of new motorways that are being built all over the country, or what, in fact, will run on them. Where is the planning for more fuel-efficient cars? There is none. Where is the planning to run our farms on less fuel? There is none. Where is the planning to shift freight to the rail network, to fix up the rail lines so they can cope with it, and to build more public transport in cities? There is very little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENational, of course, would make things even worse. There would be more big roads, less public transport, no interest at all in fuel efficiency\u2014the market would suddenly transform our old fleet when prices go over $100 a barrel. National, in fact, would make congestion in Auckland much worse, because it would abolish school zoning and encourage parents to cart their kids all around town at rush hour, driving one tonne of metal tens of kilometres in order to get one child to school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc5d2a671a4f4fd8885a95962bdfc333\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc5d2a671a4f4fd8885a95962bdfc333\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to follow the member who has just resumed her seat. Indeed, the Green Party has made a contribution to the long-term thinking of this Government around energy issues. It has, to its credit, been making the case for renewable energy for some time now, and that is to be applauded. Of course, it supports the Government\u2019s decision to ratify the Kyoto Protocol, which has made available some of the credits that have contributed to renewable energy in the form of wind power, where New Zealand is now taking an international leadership position. It is ironic, however, that the member criticises the Government for spending too much on roads and too much, perhaps, on urban rail, because often other members opposite criticise the Government for spending too little. The truth of the matter is that we are now spending on a per annum basis in Auckland alone 10 times what was being spent when we came into office 6 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBut I do not want to dwell on that track record\u2014good as it is\u2014because I want to cast my mind back to a time before I even entered Parliament. It is appropriate in this type of debate, where we take stock of the Budget and where Parliament has got to, in the last days of this session. Before I entered Parliament I was a diplomat, and I worked, latterly, in the New Zealand Embassy in Washington DC. It was my pleasure to support the visits of such high-ranking Ministers as Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith and the Hon Philip Burdon, who occasionally fell asleep in meetings with US Congressmen. There are other exciting stories that I will not go into now. It is a very great surprise to me to find that a former Minister like Lockwood Smith, who was experienced in those circles, would be the one to put on the table, in front of a visiting group of US senators, the idea that a group like The Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute ought to help educate Kiwis about our nuclear-free policy. For those who do not know the people involved with The Heritage Foundation, let me tell members that those people think Attila the Hun is a liberal and Genghis Khan is PC. These guys are seriously right wing. They are the sort of people that Ken Shirley thinks are right on. That is how far to the right they are. Those are the people whom Lockwood Smith thinks ought to be educating everyday New Zealanders about our foreign policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWell, we have news for him. We are proud of New Zealanders and we trust them to have good sense. They have said that although they are prepared to invest our resources and risk the lives of New Zealand service people who are overseas making this a safer world, they will not go blindly into that dark night and they will not go where any other country says just because it is that country. They will make up their own minds. That is a prerogative as a sovereign nation that our forebears fought and died to secure, and we are not about to give it away on a whim. Nor will we ask any foreign power to fund our election campaign on the basis of a promise like Lockwood Smith sought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI believe that, when asked this evening whether Dr Smith really said that, Dr Brash echoed a famous phrase. I ask members to guess what it was. I believe he said he would \u201Cneither confirm nor deny\u201D. Well, the worm comes full circle, because this is Dr Brash\u2019s latest utterance. One could even call it position No. 10. He has more positions on nuclear ships than the Kama Sutra. He has 10 positions so far, advancing on that advance by Simon Power, who said that wherever George goes, they go. Going back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8dee8b258d44be4a3817f4550ccb34c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I caution the member not to refer to what it is alleged that Dr Smith said. He has made a personal explanation in the House, and we need to accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285014d0275144b28a8b19533b35db6cb\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I was not aware of that. I was in my office at the time the personal explanation was made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218b7d35126064a3eaea5edccdc793d13\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: It has been done, so there will be no more references to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295fe96a453f54575955a2b5cebe11aac\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I take your point, Mr Assistant Speaker. I think it is a matter of public record that Dr Brash has had 10 positions now if we include the \u201Cneither confirm nor deny\u201D policy on nuclear ships. He has told people that the nuclear-free policy would be gone by lunchtime, that he wants a referendum, that he will change it if he has got a mandate, and that he has not got a policy yet. What does Dr Brash think? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe question facing New Zealanders is simply this: who do they trust? Do they trust Helen Clark, in a Government that has stood up for New Zealand\u2019s independent foreign policy stance over these last 6 years, or do they trust a man who is new to politics, who cannot make up his mind, who will not say what his real agenda is, and who is apparently even let down by former Ministers making embarrassing statements about foreign funding? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThat is one issue, but of course there is an even bigger flip-flop on an issue that is very close to many New Zealanders\u2019 hearts. That is about whether they can trust Dr Brash with the nations\u2019s chequebook. Once again, we get the same treatment. My colleague Annette King called it the great striptease. I just call it the policy vacuum. I have not seen a policy from the National Party. What I have heard is $7 billion worth of spending and tax cut promises so far. National has talked about a 3c cut across the board in the tax rate. That is about $4 billion worth, roughly speaking, by a back of the envelope calculation. To give a real life example, if you are a family with a $50,000 income, that is worth\u2014wait for it\u2014$28 a week. I do not refer to you, Mr Speaker. I am sure you are on more than $50,000, and you deserve to be, and it would be worth more than $28 for you. But for a family on $50,000, it would be $28 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E Now, if National\u2019s $4 billion of tax cuts, let alone its $3 billion of spending promises, were to hit Dr Bollard\u2019s desk at the Reserve Bank and he were to put rates up by, say, a percent, that would be $38 a week off that same income with a mortgage of $200,000. So someone with an average mortgage would be worse off\u2014and that is even before National has done away with the Working for Families package. So, again, I ask who New Zealanders trust. They trust Dr Cullen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ad12933b11248b3aee5820f6553cd71\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a15b8c9364147579b2036058013d1aa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. They trust him not just to be a good manager of the chequebook, or to restore New Zealand\u2019s international reputation for good Government and fiscal stability, but to front up and say what he will do. No one can argue with this: we did not embellish that Budget. We told it as it was. There is no $7.4 billion surplus, because every Kiwi knows that when you get your wages and pay the bills, at the end of the week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224d36796a8eb428e87b411885545fa6f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b42da852f8642399e1adb12b2c29531\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014not you, Mr Speaker; I am sure that you get your wages and pay your bills. As the average Kiwi knows, if one has a surplus it comes down to what is left in the purse. This Government, as made clear in the Budget statements, will be running a cash deficit for 3 out of the next 4 years, which will increase to around $3 billion in 2008. Well, that is a funny kind of surplus, and it is not what New Zealanders understand by the phrase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to making life better for all New Zealanders, not just to giving a tax cut for the wealthy. We know that even an across-the-board tax cut falls disproportionately to the top table and that those at the bottom end miss out. At the end of the day, that is often what politics is about, is it not? It is not about grand speeches in the House, it is not about policy papers that are 5 yards long, and it is not about the fine rhetoric; it is about who gets what. It is about whether the next John Key who grows up in a State house will get a good State education so he will be able to make the best of his life, or whether we will give away the resources of the generation next to this one, so that we can continue a spending boom beyond our means. Will we be responsible, will we look after our children, and will we look after our futures by spending only what we can afford to spend as we can afford to spend it? I see Mr Shirley nodding, because he has dedicated most of his career\u2014which ends this week\u2014to good fiscal management, and I commend him for that. He knows that the argument has been won on this side. He knows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bccdbb93279848148f9ad92e21b38e9e\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Gotta love him!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d90af9fffd6476998ba1d9b18486f91\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and Simon Power knows, as he slumps down in his seat, that they are there on the Opposition benches for another 3 years. It is not all bad for Simon Power. He is quite well positioned for the next round, and I think he will be a formidable opponent in 2008. But those members need that 3 years, clearly, to come up with a policy, because they do not have a policy on nuclear ships, they do not have a policy on tax cuts, and they do not have a policy on superannuation entitlements. Hell, they do not have a policy! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders know who they can trust\u2014a hard-working good Government, led by Helen Clark and her front-bench team, her Cabinet. They know that we might not put a lot of fluff around the package, but we tell it as it is. New Zealanders can trust us to do our very best for every New Zealand family, because that is what we have done for the last 6 years, and what we will continue to do for the next 6 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccc43f0987d34c53af6d24c67eb87163\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccc43f0987d34c53af6d24c67eb87163\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E The sad thing about that contribution from David Cunliffe is that he is so arrogant he actually starts to believe his own rhetoric. We are talking about the \u201Cchewing gum Budget\u201D, in which Dr Cullen himself generously promised tax cuts of 67c a week, provided New Zealanders patiently wait for the next 3 years. But the New Zealand public will not wait 3 years for 67c a week, because on 17 September they will vote overwhelmingly for a new Government that does something about the 41 taxes this Government has imposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2005080238ce30a8012d4711a27f509a61df0c73000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223097e6ba754e4b158d9ff4c91ed6486f\u0022\u003ETuesday, 2 August 2005\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea65d28cc96446b387d74493bc6ddda2\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 3 August 2005)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fe02af1dcd746619de6be0e4a4abfe6\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002293cd7bbd978347d7bc88ae39489df1e0\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8a46c4b24644e0fb4f40631f198acbe\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002255096b753f5e458ab3061a8401787cb2\u0022\u003EImprest Supply Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000006\u0022\u003EDebate resumed on the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2005/06) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002263e574969b5b47ccaf378884b41d6ea1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263e574969b5b47ccaf378884b41d6ea1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is with pleasure that I take part in the debate, in the dying days of the Labour Government and again in urgency, on the third reading of the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the events of yesterday, when Labour embarked on yet another diversion campaign because of the Prime Minister being in trouble. Let us look at yesterday\u2019s Christchurch Press headline, which states: \u201CPM\u2019s car \u2018hit 172kmh\u2019\u201D. It is no wonder that Phil Goff came into the House yesterday afternoon in question time, with a complete fabrication of the truth, and launched his leadership bid, because he and Mr Mallard are locking horns over who will lead the Labour Party in Opposition after the next election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe are debating the Budget\u2014the \u201Cchewing gum Budget\u201D, as it has become known. Dr Cullen went to the people of New Zealand and said that despite having a $7 billion surplus things were a bit tight, and that if they waited patiently the Government would deliver to them 67c per week in 3 years\u2019 time. That is what Dr Cullen did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7333f265bd44d195f5f1def03db9f3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely outrageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b60260ac71c149618d58c13f746b3b56\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: It will be 67c per week in 3 years\u2019 time. Then the polls started to turn, and the fiscal restraint Dr Cullen claims he is well known for was completely abandoned. The first person to come to the floor with a leadership bid was Mr Mallard, with a billion-dollar student loan bribe. That particular policy cannot be explained any other way. Mr Mallard himself is on record as saying that no substantial alteration could be made to the student loan policy, unless New Zealand struck oil and was guaranteed economic stability for the next 50 years. He said that earlier this year. But when the polls are down, when Helen Clark is on the ropes, and when Phil Goff and Trevor Mallard are locked in a leadership tussle, Mr Mallard is the first off the block with a billion-dollar bribe. We can forget about fiscal fortitude; an election is about to occur, and that was the first election bribe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThis morning\u2019s Dominion Post\u2014that well-known daily Labour Party newsletter\u2014tells us that the first billion dollars has been spent and that Labour is sitting on another billion dollars that it plans to release to New Zealand over the election campaign. I say to Mr Swain, the only Labour Minister in the House this morning, that the New Zealand public will not be fooled by those bribes. A Government presenting a Budget and saying that there is no money for tax cuts, then starting on an expensive spending spree simply because the polls are against it, will not fool New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIn this election we need to focus on the real issues. The real issues are on the way that Labour has created two standards of citizenship in this country\u2014one for M\u0101ori and one for non-M\u0101ori. That is completely unacceptable to me, it is completely unacceptable to the National Party, and it is completely unacceptable to most New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe also have the debacle within the education sector, overseen first of all by Mr Maharey and more recently by Mr Mallard. The sum of $239 million was given to a w\u0101nanga, when Mr Mallard himself said he always doubted the value of that spending. Those sorts of scandals will not occur when the National Government takes over after 17 September. That is the sort of thing we will tidy up immediately. New Zealanders deserve a quality education, and that is not being delivered by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we have the issue of social welfare dependency. Although unemployment has come down, we note that, surprisingly, the numbers of people on the sickness and invalids benefits have effectively doubled over the time Labour has been in office. Is that not an admission that the country has got sicker under a Labour Government? Why are more people on a sickness benefit now than when Mr Swain came into power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2230fb4ef05478d9ea27e64c40c981e\u0022\u003EHon Paul Swain\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s because they get older.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653df827002d49d59d8cebb6b10874ab\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Swain says they get older. I ask Mr Swain whether we are now putting superannuitants on that benefit. That is what he is doing, and the excuse is that they go on the sickness benefit simply because they are getting older. That excuse will not wash with New Zealanders on 17 September, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EOver the weekend two very sad incidents of teenagers being killed in horrific car accidents occurred. I note the comments made by members of the Labour caucus acknowledging a problem with young motorists and the way they drive. There is a problem with young motorists not being mature enough to handle vehicles, and there is certainly a problem with young motorists using cars at speeds at which they cannot control them. But what sort of example does the Prime Minister set to young New Zealanders when she herself travels along State Highway 1 from Waimate to Christchurch at speeds of up to 172 kilometres an hour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213aa9e4139b946b8aab5e84c4b41d2f8\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s over 100 miles an hour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de0d252a540846429506dee506fd1419\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: That is over 100 miles an hour, as my colleague Dr Wayne Mapp says. What sort of example does that set from the Prime Minister of this country? The excuse she gives is that she was rushing to make a rugby match in Wellington. I say to the Prime Minister that I also travelled to Wellington on that particular day to watch that same rugby match. I left on a flight from Christchurch 1 hour later than the Prime Minister\u2019s flight, and I arrived in Wellington with at least 1 hour to spare before I had to get to the stadium to watch the rugby match. There is absolutely no excuse for the Prime Minister\u2019s travelling at that sort of speed up the main road south to Christchurch. She had plenty of time to make that rugby match. We see now six people before the courts, charged with being responsible for the speed at which that motorcade travelled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242dcb41f229f4ec7a7e8a64a2ad77343\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Hung out to dry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0eaa1c9af17477588d652a50118c6a8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Six people! The Prime Minister will not accept any responsibility. She hangs those six people out to dry. I predict that if they are convicted, some of those six people will lose their jobs. But could the Prime Minister care less about those six people in the dock in Timaru today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b7932971c546968157db3f317c1bae\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s like a Roman emperor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210903f5cd9c846ff9cab4fd62c006a31\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I would say that most Roman emperors took more responsibility than Helen Clark ever has. This is the most disgraceful wiping of her hands we have seen. We know that she is prepared to forge paintings. That issue will not be lost on New Zealanders. Now we have this case of her speeding at 172 kilometres an hour to Christchurch to catch a flight to Wellington, when she had hours to spare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224e6caa14-14ae-43f5-b9da-fe479511fe74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217ba3a83ffa2400c94fc372d0ea7ff08\u0022\u003EPaul Adams\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019ll be an election issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee2f3341898f4ca4ab628c6a3895fef9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I assure Mr Adams that it will be an election issue. Jo Goodhew is out there door-knocking at the moment in the Aoraki electorate. Mr Sutton does not stand a chance of being returned as the member for Aoraki, because the South Canterbury people are the ones who had to jump out of the way. Their lives were at risk as the motorcade cruised up the main road south at a speed of 170 kilometres an hour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBecause the Prime Minister is in trouble, Mr Goff and Mr Mallard raised the most frivolous headlines yesterday, quite inaccurately. It is all a diversion tactic, because the Prime Minister is in trouble. So I say to the voters of New Zealand that they should not be fooled by the Labour Party. They should stick to the issues at this election\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi and the grievances it has created in New Zealand and the economy and taxation. I ask the public of New Zealand to recall the 41 new taxes that have been imposed by the Labour Government. That is how it has achieved the massive Budget surplus of $7 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022 data-id=\u00220444212e7af1402ba3a865b743c24d32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220444212e7af1402ba3a865b743c24d32\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I detect a little bit of envy over there. I start to see the emergence of the green-eyed monster. Do members know why that is? It is because National members can see this election slipping away on them. Oh yes, they can. The so-called great tax policy\u2014which was going to be announced \u201Csoon\u201D, then was going to be announced when the election was called, and will now be announced a bit later on\u2014is in tatters. Their student policy has been shown up to be absolutely pitiful, and now they can see the election slipping away on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThis has been a great Government. The way we have managed the economy and led New Zealand has been fabulous. The most important thing we have done for New Zealand has been to grow the economy. That has been the most important thing, because as a result of that, we now have some of the highest growth rates among the OECD, we have more people working, we have created over 260,000 new jobs, there are 100,000 fewer working-age beneficiaries than there were in 1999, and we have been able to rebuild the services that were in rack and ruin and decay around New Zealand following 9 long years of that National Government. People will not forget that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EWhat about the good things we have been able to do? What about family support and Working for Families? Over 300,000 people will be $66 a week, on average, better off. What about paid parental leave, which gives people the opportunity to be paid for 13 weeks when they have a baby? Boy, that has taken away a lot of concern and pressure from a lot of ordinary families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282989e742ac647f88589822ebf0680c7\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Do you think that was a good idea?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f261e8f07d0b4dc996bf41728cdc1a46\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: It was a very good idea and I thank the Government for it. What about early childhood education? What about the quality we have been able to raise as a result of the policies in early childhood education? What about schools? There are more teachers, over and above roll growth, there is more money, over and above inflation, and there are more resources. Schools are on high-speed Internet on broadband, and teachers and principals are getting laptops. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EWhat about the tertiary loan policy of no interest on student loans? What a ripper that has been! It went round the universities by text message like prairie fire. What about health? We have now been able to make health more affordable to ordinary New Zealanders, particularly the young and the elderly. What about apprenticeships? National destroyed the apprenticeship system. We brought it back. One of the first things National did was to rip out the apprenticeship system, and we have brought it back. There are around 9,000 apprenticeships and we are, of course, looking to almost double that in the next 3 years. What about transport? It was absolutely in the doldrums under National. Look at the money that has gone back into transport. In my own region, Wellington, $885 million is going into transport, including public transport and roading\u2014all the things that were lying fallow under the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EWhat about pensions and pensioners? One of the things I am most proud of is that we restored the rate, which National cut when it was in Government, back to 65 percent of the average weekly wage. Asset testing is starting to come off next year, and what about the rates rebate scheme, which nothing has been done about since the 1970s? So this has been a fantastic Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EWhat about the National Party? It is doing a couple of things that everyone is scratching their heads over. First of all, it is saying it will cut taxes. That is very, very popular. But then it will spend more. It will cut taxes and spend more. People who watch Rove Live will know that that is a \u201CWhat the \u2026?\u201D. Cutting taxes and spending more\u2014\u201CWhat the \u2026?\u201D\u2014how does that work, everybody wonders. If Governments could have done that, everyone would have been doing it for years. We cannot cut taxes and spend more. It just does not add up. It is a classic Rove Live \u201CWhat the \u2026?\u201D. National is telling people that every New Zealander will get $40 or $50 from a tax cut. But National is also promising to spend billions more. National members say that defence spending will be up 20 percent\u2014\u201CWhat the \u2026 ?\u201D. Then there are prisons. They will build six to 10 more at an average of probably around $1 billion to $2 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d538400bf86c45248c402d2b3956699a\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Where are they going to build them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb464bd90b84b4e83cb87a3a70b3cf8\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they are going to have to build them in a number of places. They are going to have to build one in Tauranga. I wonder whether the people of Tauranga know that the National Party is putting a prison near them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295e00623b2a44abba665083a42a66961\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: With no resource consent!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022919bb19e43e04e6983a891bfc7f7f7cd\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014so they will not even be able to object. What about up by the Albany coast? I wonder whether Murray McCully has told people that as part of the development up there, as well as a prison in Auckland the people will be getting another prison and they will not have a chance to object? And what about Nelson? I bet that Nick Smith has not told the people of Nelson that they are most likely to get a jail down there and not be able to object. I bet he has not told the people of Nelson that there is likely to be another prison there because they will have to build six or 10, and they are going to have to go somewhere. Every time a prison is going to be built National Party members turn up en bloc and tell people how to stop them from being built. They say: \u201CUse M\u0101ori cultural values; that\u2019s how you do it.\u201D So they lecture people on how to stop the prisons being built and they have the audacity and cheek to come in here and say that they will build six to 10 more and not tell people where they are going. It is a disgrace. And in roads, of course, there are billions and billions of dollars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThen National members say: \u201CDon\u2019t worry, we\u2019re going to borrow.\u201D We are back to the old \u201Dborrow and hope\u201D\u2014and what will happen when the economy goes soft, as it is likely to do? If they borrow, we know what happens. Interest rates go up. There is no question about that. That affects people\u2019s mortgages. If interest rates go up 1 percent on a $100,000 mortgage, that is $19 a week. If one has a mortgage of $150,000, that is $29 a week. They are eroding the very tax cut that that party says it will give to people. It does not add up. It is a Rove Live \u201CWhat the \u2026?\u201D. It is just ridiculous and that is why people are not going to buy it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThis election will be about credibility, leadership, and trust\u2014Helen Clark versus Don Brash. Well, there is absolutely no match. Obviously all the good money is on Helen Clark, and rightly so. What a bumbling amateur Don Brash is. He says: \u201COur nuclear policy is crystal clear.\u201D Well, of course, to everybody it is, because they want to get rid of it. But they have not been able to bring themselves to actually say it. If they came out and said: \u201CWe in the National Party say that the nuclear policy should be gone, and we\u2019re going to get rid of it.\u201D, people would say: \u201CAt least they\u2019re honest about what they are saying.\u201D But oh no. There was the old \u201Cgone by lunchtime\u201D quote. Now Don Brash is saying that he does not recall it. He does not recall saying \u201Cgone by lunchtime\u201D. He has just forgotten\u2014political amnesia! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EThen he said: \u201CNo, no, we\u2019re going to have a referendum to give people the chance to decide.\u201D Then suddenly \u201Creferendum\u201D went to \u201Cmanifesto commitment\u201D. They are weasel words, and we know what that is all about, and they have suffered in the polls as a result. And the classic, the summary, the most magnificent piece of wording that I have ever seen, virtually, in the National Business Review, is this. Asked whether he thought National suffered for his initial unwillingness to give a clear line on the party\u2019s Iraq policy, Dr Brash said: \u201CI can\u2019t say.\u201D He cannot say anything! He never knows what to say. He wants to say what he really thinks, but he knows that it is not popular and he will go down in the polls. So it is all weasel words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EWhat about Lockwood Smith yesterday? What a fiasco! At the same \u201Cgone by lunchtime\u201D meeting, he asked: \u201CWould it be worthwhile to get American think tanks to help change New Zealand\u2019s mind on nuclear policy?\u201D. What an outrage! What an outrage from a senior National member of Parliament in a formal meeting with senators from America asking them to give National a hand to change people\u2019s minds! Well, the good thing that those senators said, and rightly so, was: \u201CChanging people\u2019s minds in New Zealand is not our business; it\u2019s your business.\u201D, and rightly so. Do members know what was also said? Dr Smith now says this morning: \u201CI don\u2019t recall saying that.\u201D That is another case of political amnesia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003EAnd what about Iraq? What a fiasco on that! He said: \u201CI would have done what President Bush did.\u201D, but when asked, eight times on television, to clarify that and repeat it, he said he would not do it. The problem is that Don Brash actually wants to say the things that deep down are part of his background\u2014part of that extreme, hard, right-wing philosophy that he follows. He wants to say those things. One can see him bursting at the seams to say what he actually wants to say, but he knows that if he does he will not get elected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a4fdd3694554455af5168946d812073\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019ll be gone by lunchtime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af299414365b423294470e72db4f0d2d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL SWAIN\u003C/span\u003E: That leader of the National Party and that National Party will be gone by lunchtime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00228ccad80a470440c79a1a8d11dfad5b13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ccad80a470440c79a1a8d11dfad5b13\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E This year\u2019s Budget contains massive operating surpluses. Those surpluses, combined with the more than $3 billion that Dr Michael Cullen has stashed away in his slush fund, mean that there is plenty of room for tax cuts, and that is exactly what United Future will offer to all New Zealanders in this year\u2019s elections\u2014meaningful, simple, straightforward, justifiable tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe will do this, firstly, by income splitting for couples with dependent children. As pointed out by the 1982 McCaw Task Force on Tax Reform, this would create a fairer tax system for New Zealanders. The reason is that, at any given level of income, a couple with dependent children have less ability to pay tax than other taxpayers with no such dependents but the same income. It is actually pretty simple: if a couple have two children, they have four mouths to feed; if they have three children, they have five mouths to feed; and so on. By contrast, single people have only themselves to feed, as do couples with no children\u2014\u201Cdinkies\u201D\u2014and that is simply completely unfair. Under the current system, a couple with children where both spouses or partners work obtain a tax advantage in so far as they pay less tax than a single-income family with the same number of children. That is also unfair. The current tax system gives a tax rebate for the direct cost of childcare incurred by a family, whilst failing in any shape or form to recognise the indirect cost of income forgone by a parent who stays at home while caring for children, and that is unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EAll of the four points I have just outlined to the House were identified in 1982 by the McCaw Task Force on Tax Reform. I was actually speaking to Malcolm McCaw yesterday, and he said to me that the task force was greatly disappointed that at the time the Government of the day simply rejected its recommendation. In fact, every Government, whether Labour or National, has consistently ignored the recommendations of the McCaw task force since 1982, and they have been wrong to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EUnited Future aims to change all of that. There are 325,000 couples\u2014that is, 650,000 taxpayers\u2014who will benefit from this change to income splitting. Indeed, for a couple with dependent children on the average household income level in New Zealand, as put out in this year\u2019s Budget, our change together with the other changes we are proposing will give them up to an extra $163 per week in the hand. No other party in this Parliament is able to offer such generosity to couples with kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe 420,000 graduates who are now in the workforce and who have student loans will be better off with United Future. They will pay no tax at all on the first $3,000 they earn each year. Under Labour they pay 15c in the dollar. Those on incomes of between $38,000 and $43,000 will pay 19.5c in the dollar. Under Labour they pay 33c. People on incomes of between $60,000 and $65,000 will pay 33c. Under Labour they pay 39c. If we do the sums based on those realities, this is what we discover. If a graduate who is now in the workforce is earning $35,000, which I guess is probably almost a starting salary for graduates, he or she will save $585 in tax a year. If graduates are earning between $45,000 and $55,000, they will save $1,260 a year. If they are earning $65,000, the saving will be more than $1,560 a year. That beats, by a large margin, the measly $450 per annum\u2014that is right; just $450 per annum\u2014that they save under Labour\u2019s zero-interest offer. That is based on the average student debt of approximately $15,000. The zero-interest offer of Labour, compared with United Future\u2019s interest offer, saves graduates only $450 at the average level. Therefore, it is quite clear, on those numbers and on that arithmetic, which I invite graduates to check, that they would be much better off under United Future. We are offering real and substantial tax gains; Labour is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ESuperannuitants will also be better off with United Future. We will increase the total for married couples on New Zealand superannuation by $21.34 a week, or $1,110 per annum. An equivalent increase for singles will give them about $720 per annum extra. In addition, we will remove GST from rates. GST should not be charged on rates, because it is simply a tax on top of a tax. It is not charged in Australia, Canada, or the European Union. Taken together, those measures will increase the household income of senior citizens on the married couple rate by an average of about $1,300 per annum. It will more than ensure that our seniors can cover the increased cost of electricity and rates, both of which have increased dramatically in the last 3 years. The Labour Government says it has cared for the elderly in the last 3 years by bringing the superannuation rate back to 65 percent. But I tell members that since it did that, to this day, rates have gone up in this country by something like 40 percent over inflation, electricity has gone up by something like 50 percent over inflation, and Labour has done nothing about them\u2014and nor is National offering to do anything about them, I might add. So if people over 65 vote Labour or National in this election, they will get zip. Under United Future, they will get a significant increase, which will enable them to pay their rates bill and electricity bill, and to live with the dignity that surely all of our senior citizens deserve. We will address that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EUnited Future will reduce the company tax rate to 30c. Under Labour, companies pay 33c. We have that policy in common with National. Both of us are intent on bringing the company tax rate down. Why? Because it is important to incentivise additional investment in, and through, New Zealand companies. Why? So that we can increase productivity. One of the craziest arguments that I have heard from Labour in the debate since the Budget is that somehow or other those measures will lead to inflation. They will not. That is nonsense. In short, every single taxpayer and every single company in New Zealand will pay less tax under United Future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe can pay for those commitments and still maintain a surplus in the Crown accounts of almost $10 billion over the next 3 years. We believe that that is more than enough for capital expenditure. Dr Cullen, having told the country that it must wait for 3 years to receive a tax cut of\u2014wait for it; we all know it\u201467c per week, has now revealed that that is only because he has reserved a slush fund of $3.6 billion. Members can see that on pages 71 and 99 of the Budget, if they want to check out the figure. He has put away $3.6 billion as a slush fund for election lollies, such as the \u201Cno interest on student loans\u201D policy with its moral hazard, but there is nothing for couples with kids, nothing for senior citizens, nothing for companies, and an inferior deal for graduates in the workplace with student loans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E At least the people of New Zealand have some clear choices in this election. We have Labour on the one hand saying: \u201CWe know best how to spend your money.\u201D, versus United Future saying: \u201CWe will leave it to you to decide how to spend your money.\u201D We should never forget that leaving money in the pockets of families at this stage will build strong families, and without strong families we cannot have a strong nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00227a33b0eb04ba484cbe3391930aac0c58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a33b0eb04ba484cbe3391930aac0c58\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Going into the election campaign, people in New Zealand will be looking at three things. First, they will be looking at the record of this Government compared with the record of the National Party when it was in Government. Second, they will be looking at the future commitments the parties are making, and judging the value of those policy commitments. Third, they will certainly be looking, in the end, at the difference between a Labour-led Government and a National-led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWhat is the alternative that is being offered? I and my Labour colleague candidates around the country will be very, very proud to stand on our record in the last 5\u00BE years as the Government\u2014our record based fundamentally on Labour values and on delivering those in policies, particularly in jobs, education, health, and housing. There are now 250,000 more jobs in our country than there were when we were elected as the Government. That is six new jobs every hour. There are 100,000 fewer working-age people on benefits. I have heard the National Party and the ACT party\u2014a thing of the past, almost\u2014say that we have shifted people from one benefit to another. Well, the facts are before this House and before the country: 100,000 fewer working-age people are on benefits than when we were elected in 1999. Three hundred thousand families are better off financially because of our Working for Families package. Money is directed into their pockets so they can decide how to spend it\u2014big money\u2014whereas it would be $5 or $6 for average working families under National\u2019s tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EPaid parental leave, which is a policy that National opposed at every step, means that new mothers can take time out of their paid job, look after their babies, and get direct money to help them support that new baby. Paid parental leave will increase to 14 weeks at the end of the year, and if Labour is elected to lead the next Government it will also be extended to self-employed people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe investments we have made in early childhood education and the compulsory sector have seen a significant increase in the number of teachers, above that required for roll growth, and supported our children to have high-quality education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn the health system, nurses are finally getting fair pay after years of waiting. Through the primary health organisations our younger people\u2014those under 18 years\u2014and our older citizens aged over 65 years, now have reduced costs when going to the doctor. For an elderly person going to the chemist, the maximum charge for Government-subsidised medicine is now $3 compared with $15 under the previous administration, which means $12 per item at the chemist that they get to keep in their own pocket. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOne of the things I am most proud of is reintroducing the apprenticeship scheme. We all know that during the 1990s our tradespeople were not New Zealanders who had gone to school here, whose parents had paid their taxes, and who had an opportunity for a trade. We were importing tradespeople from overseas because the National Government had pushed away all of those training opportunities. Our apprenticeship scheme is now up and running, strongly supported by our Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is the same in housing. We remember during the 1990s the great sell-off of State houses up and down the country. The introduction of market rentals for those in State houses meant that people were paying over 50 percent of their income on rent. How can people afford to support their family if half of their income is going on rent? One of the first things we did was start up again a State housing programme whereby houses were built around the country, and we reintroduced income-related rent. People on low incomes now who are in a State house have a cap of 25 percent of their income for rent. So now they can afford to feed and clothe their children properly instead of all of that money going out. Our record in health, education, employment, and housing is one I will be very proud to take to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E That demonstrates the integrity and delivery of the commitments we made prior to the election. One of the most important things in a democracy is when a party can stand up and say: \u201CBefore the last election we said we would deliver on these things.\u201D, and 3 years later go back to the country and say: \u201CTick off those commitments.\u201D The process with the commitment card that we put to the electorate in 1999 and in 2002 is exactly the same with this election: people can tick every one of those commitments, because we delivered what we said we would deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut what about the integrity of the National Party? We are still waiting for National\u2019s long- promised tax announcements. Every week the story is different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e21c4615de440d5bcb7f40f070141d8\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: It will happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0be1eb1f7934b1fa90706b051d853bb\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Wayne Mapp says that it will happen. I am sure it will; so will Christmas! We know that it will happen; it is just a matter of when. Originally, National gave the excuse that it did not know when the election would be, so it would wait until that announcement. We all waited for the announcement, and 8 weeks out from the election we got the announcement, but suddenly the story had changed; Dr Brash said: \u201COh, we\u2019re no longer waiting for the election date to be announced; we\u2019ll do it soon.\u201D Then 3 or 4 days later he said: \u201CWe\u2019ll do it a little later.\u201D And now: \u201CWe\u2019re finalising the details; we haven\u2019t quite decided.\u201D Dr Brash recently said that he did not even know the details of his own policy. How is that for a leader who is challenging Helen Clark for the position of Prime Minister of this country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI say that the odds are pretty clearly in Helen Clark\u2019s favour. In fact, I do not think it is a fair battle at all. Don Brash should probably move over now, rather than wait till after the election, and give somebody a decent chance at running the campaign. If he does not even know the details of his own tax policy, how can he possibly take it to the country with any integrity? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe people of New Zealand will look very carefully at the record of this Government. We know the record of the 1990s under a National-led Government, where everything that moved was sold. Our major infrastructure support was privatised. We had fewer teachers, fewer nurses, and fewer social workers. The most important social services in our country\u2014namely, health services, education services, care and protection, and youth justice services\u2014were all run down. That is now being portrayed by the National Party as \u201Ccutting bureaucracy\u201D. It says that a National Government would cut the waste. We know where the cuts were made in the 1990s; the last time that that party had the opportunity to lead the Government, nurses\u2019 pay was cut and the number of nurses was cut; teachers\u2019 pay was cut and the number of teachers was cut; social workers\u2019 pay was cut and the number of social workers was cut. We know the alternative that is before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESo when the public hear the term \u201Ccuts in bureaucracy\u201D, they know that National is talking about fewer teachers, fewer nurses, and fewer social workers. That is what the National Party describes as bureaucracy. To me those services are fundamental social services, without which New Zealand families cannot get by. That is the sort of social support that we should be giving as a Government, rather than cutting services and describing it as bureaucracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESo the record of our Government, compared with the record of the National Government, is very clear and very different. The integrity of the parties is very clear and very different. The alternatives facing New Zealand for the future leadership of our country are very clear and very different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is very hard to try to get any clarity from the National Party about any of its policies. Just what is the National Party\u2019s position on Iraq? Who knows! My bet is with the original statements made by Dr Brash that we would have troops sent to Iraq \u201Cby lunchtime\u201D; \u201Cbefore Christmas\u201D; whenever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bfbc4c0ca7f4182b3d8cd2260d95f0d\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acfb0a60f1b549af8c5a78c226a3c5f0\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a hypothetical question. That member knows that Australia has just done it. New Zealand, under a National-led Government, would be sending troops to Iraq. National members cannot deny it, because they know that that is National\u2019s policy. Who knows what would happen to our nuclear-free policy, which has been a flagship of our country for two decades now? That would be gone under a National Government, no matter how much members opposite squirm around and change things. We know that National would reintroduce bulk funding of schools, yet that practice divided our education system, up and down the country. It pitted teachers against parents, and pitted teachers against boards of trustees. Why would we want to go back to that sort of division? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe know the sort of racial division that would be created under National. We know the sort of intolerance that National creates by describing its own party as \u201Cmainstream\u201D, thereby excluding people whom they do not consider mainstream. I am not sure what mainstream, is under Dr Brash\u2019s definition, but I bet that a lot of New Zealanders would feel excluded in their own country. What sort of intolerance do they want to create with that sort of description of their policies? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe need a country that is led by someone with integrity, and that is Helen Clark. We need a party to lead the Government that has a record of commitment, where what it says it will deliver, it will deliver, so that the public of New Zealand can have trust in their leadership and trust in their Government. They will not get that under a National-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u00226fbab0de69a74102ba6b01d7e9527ecc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fbab0de69a74102ba6b01d7e9527ecc\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The previous Labour speaker, Ruth Dyson, ended her speech on a very good point, and that is the question of leadership. We have no leadership from Labour. We certainly have no leadership of the Opposition by National. The leadership shown in this House comes from New Zealand First and the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EI am sure that if the Rt Hon Winston Peters was travelling in a car at 180 kilometres an hour, and the windscreen broke and the car was damaged, he would be fully aware of what was going on. The leader of Labour\u2014the Prime Minister\u2014tells us that she can travel in a car in those circumstances and not know what is happening. What a disgrace! She is letting down our fine New Zealand police force by indicating she had no idea what was going on. Of course, as usual with Labour, she lets the police force carry the can. Someone else, as far as Helen Clark is concerned, can always carry the can. How many Labour Ministers have been sacked? It is always someone else\u2019s fault; she will never accept responsibility herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EInstead, in New Zealand First we have a leader who takes full control of what is happening and knows what is going on. At the last election we promised three things. We would have a close look at law and order, for starters. We have had any number of questions asked of Labour Ministers on this matter\u2014in particular, of course, the so-called Labour Minister of Police. If there has ever been a disgrace to the name of our fine police force, it is George Hawkins as Minister of Police. There has never been such an atrocious Minister of Police as George Hawkins, but he has had the full support of this so-called Prime Minister. He has had the full support of Helen Clark\u2014the lady who does not even know that her windscreen is broken or her car is damaged, or that she is doing 180 kilometres an hour. No wonder she supports him, when she is party to the breaking of the law and the endangering of people, and supports dangerous driving. She should be on that stand, because she must surely have accepted responsibility and given the order. But, no, in New Zealand, Labour Party leaders do not accept responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is very clear about what a New Zealand First Government will do as far as law and order is concerned. We will separate the traffic police from the police. We do not want our main police handing out traffic tickets. We do not want our main police chasing after people who are doing 63 kilometres an hour in a built-up, residential area where they should be doing 50 kilometres an hour. The main police should be out there catching burglars, murderers, and rapists. They should have been making sure that Iraena Asher, the young woman who disappeared in the P\u012Bh\u0101 area, was attended to\u2014they should have called on her and made sure she was safe. That is what the police should be doing. Instead we have a disappearance that will remain one of those mysteries, and that we might still read about in 25 years\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First wants to make sure that the police do policing, and we will increase the size of the New Zealand police force to achieve that. Any responsible Government would do no less, and that is what New Zealand First will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThe other area we said we would be involved in was Treaty of Waitangi matters. It is interesting that Labour and National now support New Zealand First policy. We have a 100 percent record on that. We have now drawn the two tired old parties kicking and screaming into the 21st century, to ensure they support the policies of New Zealand First. After the next election, New Zealand First will make sure those policies are carried out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EThe third area we mentioned was immigration. It is very pleasing to note that, even in Opposition, New Zealand First has been able to ensure Labour has changed its policy. We insisted that there be English language tests for migrants, and Labour has done that. We wanted changes to the skilled migrant category, and Labour has done that. New Zealand First wanted stricter health requirements for migrants, and Labour has done that. We wanted to establish an undesirables category, and Labour has done that. We wanted to put a stop to foreign nationals processing visa applications, and Labour has done that. We wanted the regulation of immigration advisers, and Labour has done that. We wanted changes to the investor category, and that has been done, too. New Zealand First has run the administration of the New Zealand Immigration Service from Opposition. Time and time again throughout the past 3 years of this administration, from 2002 to 2005, the Rt Hon Winston Peters has hammered the successive Ministers of Immigration to ensure that there are good policies as far as administration is concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, we have no control over the number of people who come into New Zealand. On looking at the figures, I see that the smartest people in New Zealand are, clearly, Wellingtonians, because in the 18 years from 1986 to 2004 Wellington\u2019s population increased by only 15 percent. That is nice, steady growth of population in 18 years. By contrast, those of us who live in Auckland saw a population increase in that region of almost 60 percent. That is an appalling situation for Auckland. That is why I say Wellingtonians are smart. Their increase has been gentle, and can be managed. In fact, the increase in the population of the Auckland region in the last 18 years equals Wellington\u2019s entire population since day one. It is no wonder that things are so chaotic in Auckland, and that so many born and bred Aucklanders regard Auckland as a foreign city and do not go anywhere near its main streets; they are frightened and nervous to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1b3a855f79f401b9f18d56cf6e1aebe\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa59cccba59a4d65a3759610a84c0cdb\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Samuels might laugh, but it is a fact that many born and bred Aucklanders do not go down the main street any more. New Zealand First says we must have control of immigration, and we must ensure that we grant entry to immigrants with skills and knowledge of the English language. That is a priority. There should be a 5-year probation period for new immigrants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will have a population policy to make sure that all New Zealanders can be involved in what happens to the future of New Zealand. I am very appreciative of the Taiwanese Association to which I and other members of Parliament spoke a little while ago. As one of its questions, it came up with the idea of a population policy. I was able to say to its members that the Rt Hon Winston Peters had already announced in his \u014Crewa speech that that was what New Zealand First would be doing. We are working closely with migrant groups to ensure that everybody knows we have some sort of plan in respect of what happens to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EAs things stand at the moment, we can build as many roads as we like in Auckland, but they will never cope even with our present population, let alone with an increase of 1 million people, which is the number that some political parties want our population to increase by. I ask members if they can imagine another 450,000 people in Auckland, or another 500,000 people in 10 years\u2019 time. Labour does not say no to that, and it is quite happy to support it, because it sees it as somehow helping it to win the election. It would be an absolute disaster for Auckland. After all, I can remember when I went to Belgrade and saw all the tall apartment buildings that had been built. To a large extent, Auckland now reminds me of Belgrade in post-Tito\u2019s Yugoslavia of 1982. There are Aucklanders who are dreadfully concerned about the type of building that is being built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EIn this election, New Zealand First is the only party that is concerned about the young children of New Zealand and their health. Plunket has supported New Zealand First\u2019s policy to ensure that all children up to primary school age get free health-care. Labour does not care about free health-care for young children; neither does any other party in this House. But that is New Zealand First\u2019s policy, which continues the existing policy that we had when we were in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EAs far as students are concerned, New Zealand First will have a universal student allowance. That means people do not have to borrow anything. They get an allowance and do not have to pay it back. There is no interest to pay, and there is no principal to pay. People should have a closer look, as I know the students associations are doing, at New Zealand First\u2019s policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EAs far as the elderly is concerned, New Zealand First says it is very simple. The current law allows retirement income to be calculated at between 65 and 72.5 percent of the average wage. The present Government and the National Party\u2014the tired old parties\u2014are cheating our elderly. One can increase retirement income to 68 percent by an administrative action, and New Zealand First will do that. It does not require any change in the law. All it requires is a change in the Government. All it requires is for both tired old parties to be gone, and for New Zealand First to have a say in ensuring that, by an administrative act, it can be increased\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022031026bd76ac4283a8672a4883c0e05f\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Dream on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291cf3f98f67348549c0c5b7faf128d7e\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Mapp does not support the elderly people on the North Shore. That is fine; he tells me to dream on. [Interruption] Now he interjects, and now he wants to withdraw his interjection. I will be telling the people of the North Shore that all Dr Mapp wants is for them to dream on about an increase in retirement income, which I have been talking about. We will increase it for the elderly people of the North Shore to 68 percent, and then to 72.5 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022 data-id=\u0022faa045f767694518bdb9d8988e3ac07f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faa045f767694518bdb9d8988e3ac07f\u0022\u003EHon JIM SUTTON (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E The Budget and this third reading of the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill are all about the sort of country we are building in New Zealand today\u2014a country in which the regions are thriving; a country in which we are a gateway to the world and are sending our exports to all the markets of the world, where we are respected and independent; and a country in which we are building a skills-based economy. Our people are getting more and more skills, and more and more education. We are taking new initiatives by the month to increase the accessibility of advanced training and education for our young people. But what do we have from the other side of the House? It is opposition all the way\u2014opposition for its own sake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EIt is quite apparent that the National Party would say anything\u2014anything at all\u2014to get elected in the forthcoming election. It does not have much hope, but it is prepared to sell out our nuclear-free policy, which is supported by an overwhelming majority of all New Zealanders, in order to advance its party political vested interests. National members will say anything, Dr Brash will say anything, and Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith PhD, as his friends call him, will say anything, to get elected. Dr Smith wants his old job back, but he is not going to get it. It is not just about whether New Zealand is nuclear-free; it is about whether New Zealand would rush to war any time Australia or the United States decided to take pre-emptive action or to make a pre-emptive strike somewhere. Would we go? Well, Simon Power said we would go wherever the United States goes, wherever George Bush goes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EWhat will National do if the Americans ratify the Kyoto Protocol\u2014which they are likely to do one of these days? Will National do a flip-flop? You betcha! It will absolutely do a flip-flop then. National ought to do one now, because it would be good for New Zealand to have bipartisan support for tackling the desperate problem of human activity - induced climate change. But the point is whether we are going to rush to war. What are the fiscal consequences of rushing off to war every time Uncle Sam or the Australian Prime Minister decide that a pre-emptive strike needs to be made? I say that the fiscal consequences of that would not be good, at all. The issue is about whether New Zealand makes its own decisions. Do we have the capacity to make our own decisions in the world? Are we an independent sovereign nation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003ENow, that is not just about the Budget; it is about whether we have the moral strength to stand up for what we believe in and to make our own decisions, and that is a very important matter. At the moment New Zealand has credibility around the world. We are respected because we cooperate on matters that we approve of. We work on the side of people who are trying to do good things in the world. We stand up against things that we think are bad, wrong, or mistaken, and we are respected for it. No matter how big a nation it is, it is worth its being able to say: \u201CNew Zealand agrees with us. New Zealand is prepared to do an FTA with us.\u201D That is money in the bank for New Zealand and it keeps our reputation high, but our opponents would get rid of that reputation by being slavish followers of our traditional allies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E The days when New Zealand would say: \u201CWhere Britain goes, we go\u201D, without knowing first where Britain was going, are gone. We are a fully independent nation. We do not rush to war because our good friends rush to war. We would go to war only if it were a last resort and necessary for the security of ourselves and other countries that share our values. That will be the most important issue of the forthcoming election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EOf course, it has fiscal implications. Every week Cabinet has to make tough decisions about what we spend on the resources needed to have an independent foreign policy, an independent military policy, and an independent trade policy. Those things do not come for nothing. We have to put the resources into them. Thank goodness that we on this side of the House have moral fibre and are prepared to commit those resources to them, in order to maintain New Zealand as an independent sovereign nation that makes its own decisions on the basis of what it sees as right. [Interruption] The member opposite who is bellowing away into space should take a lesson from that and stand up for an independent sovereign New Zealand that does the right thing in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003ELet me turn to the issues in the Budget that are dear to me\u2014biosecurity, trade, training, a skills-based economy, and thriving regions. All those things are dear to my heart. This Government is funding and delivering bigger and better results on the trade front than any Government I can remember. We have delivered three new closer economic partnership agreements or free-trade agreements in our 6 years so far. We have another clutch in negotiation. In 9 long, desert years the previous Government managed to start one negotiation, and completed none\u2014not one single little free-trade agreement could it complete. There was no rain in the desert for 9 long years under National, Winston Peters, and the rest of them. I would not like to list all the coalition partners National had. Even when National was in a coalition involving one other member or a one-person party, it would be in two minds. How much unity did National display? Not a lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EAs well as delivering on the trade front, which, of course, underlines and bankrolls our prosperity in New Zealand, this Government has delivered on the biosecurity front far better than previous Governments. I must say that the only rational response to the ever-increasing number of tourists and travellers and the ever-increasing flood of sea freight containers coming into New Zealand, whereby every one of those passengers, every sea freight container, and every passenger and air crew carry-on bag is a potential source of a catastrophic biosecurity breach to New Zealand, is one of continuous improvement, and this Government is delivering that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003EThe previous Government could only cut, cut, cut. The \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D did not leave much room for manoeuvre; things just got worse and worse. Labour has been cleaning up the incursions of moths, bugs, viruses, and bacteria that flooded into New Zealand, under the previous National Government. We have been slowly working our way through that huge list. National allowed hundreds of incursions per year. It allowed passengers to come into the country without being in sight of a detector dog and without being within cooee of a soft-tissue X-ray machine. No more! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222e7121af-c8f1-4d5c-b1f5-5646e4d9ca70\u0022\u003E They all go through the process now. Even visiting heads of State go through it. Their bags are X-rayed and analysed, they go before the detector dogs, and if there is any undeclared risk material all their bags get searched\u2014even visiting senior politicians and heads of State. We have the most rigorous, watertight biosecurity system at the border of any nation on earth, and we will continue to make it better for the sake of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00225b15837de81d4bc3b1aa57fac018b1ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b15837de81d4bc3b1aa57fac018b1ad\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E That was Sutton the speedster\u2014the man who was so oblivious of road conditions in South Canterbury that he was not aware his vehicle was travelling at 172 kilometres an hour. That is over 100 miles an hour in the old language and, frankly, it is simply not believable that someone could be unaware of that speed. I guess one is judged by one\u2019s actions. There is a man\u2014Mr Sutton\u2014who simply will not fess up, who will duck and weave, and who will then expect people to believe other things he says. Well, he will be judged by the public of New Zealand for speeding at 172 kilometres per hour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWhere is his public statement defending the loyal police officers of this country? Frankly, the matter is outrageous\u2014and it is no wonder he is walking out right now. If only he would get on a plane and go down to the District Court in Timaru!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EDespite the bluff and bluster of this Government, the big contest will be between National\u2019s tax package versus the Government\u2019s desperate actions and desperate speeding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248c12b02f9e445c18f5e83eacf90c559\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Got a think tank working on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc321c70f21c4947942463159f458522\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: That is why the Government is in trouble. Government members know it\u2014and we saw the actions of Mr Goff yesterday. They know that New Zealanders are being crushed by the prospect of a miserable 67c tax cut. When will they get it? They will get it in 2008. That is as good as it gets under this Government, and that is why New Zealanders are saying: \u201CGoodbye, Labour. We\u2019re sick of you. We know it can get better than 67c per week in 3 years\u2019 time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EMr Goff is in the House today. He knows full well why he released those documents yesterday. That action was desperate and devious, because this is a desperate Government trying to distract attention from its complete and utter failure on the tax front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b861bdf6a2b42eab7e122900e42456a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What did \u201CLocky\u201D say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c53c0261b484393b2aa5b2dde9b8570\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Goff that New Zealanders are not that foolish. They will not be distracted, because they know that the real issue is the one that affects their real lives: the money in their own pockets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI say as well that the election is about values. I ask the Government why the Prime Minister cannot acknowledge her role in the notorious speeding incident. Frankly, it is so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237cd06a68f274c36a141110afd90e91a\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a697517806547d8b4f2f7250ca4d371\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Government members laugh about that. The speed was so high that children in a bus had to leave the road in fear for their lives. The Prime Minister is like some Eastern potentate streaming through the hamlets of New Zealand faster than a light aircraft, scattering villagers in fear. What an appalling example to New Zealanders! The public will judge the Prime Minister by her values. She is no Eastern potentate; she lives in a democracy. She will be accountable to the public of New Zealand, and I predict that she will not like the verdict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EElections are about the big issues; they are not about the sideshows, and they are not about the desperate diversions. The Government knows full well that taxes have gone up from $32 billion 5 years ago to $45 billion now. We have 41 new taxes, but that is not enough for Labour; Labour wants more. Its more is open to having ever more, so it will increase taxes to $57 billion. Even though there is a $7 billion surplus, Labour will increase taxes by another $12 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E Do members know what taxpayers will get? They will get an extra 67c in 3 years\u2019 time. I say to this Government\u2014and more importantly to New Zealanders\u2014that relief is on the way, because National is going to announce a significant tax policy. We know perfectly well that a surplus of $7 billion\u2014which is a $2,000 surplus per head: every man, woman, and child in this country\u2014provides an opportunity for a decent, reasonable, and prudent tax cut. In fact, every party other than Labour that I have heard from in this Parliament today, ranging from United Future through New Zealand First to ACT\u2014and, dare I say it, even Mr Anderton himself, who proposes a 30c corporate or business tax\u2014says there is scope for a reasonable tax cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIn reality, it is about background and experience. No one in New Zealand can possibly believe the preposterous allegations by the Labour Government that National would put up interest rates. For heaven\u2019s sake, the leader of the National Party is a former Governor of the Reserve Bank. For 14 years he was the man who squeezed inflation out of this country, to the everlasting benefit of the country and its economy. The growth that exists today is a direct result of sensible Reserve Bank policies, so for Labour to suggest seriously to the New Zealand public that National would be so imprudent as to have a policy that would increase inflation and interest rates is sheer cant and completely irresponsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E Frankly, the public will see through that, because as I have said and as is clear, the public will not be fooled. They will not be fooled by Mr Goff. He can make his desperate plays as much as he wants. He can focus on the sideshows. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8baa663021a4e8f97f19ede68da6c1a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: The truth hurts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022590906df3626479eb4d525882cd178d2\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: That is Mr Goff, focusing on the sideshows. Well, I say to Mr Goff that in 7 weeks\u2019 time the public will judge this Government on the real issues. The real issues will be the Government\u2019s reckless spending and our prudent tax approach, the Government\u2019s reckless division of New Zealanders on the basis of race and our policy of bringing New Zealanders together, the Government\u2019s reckless student loans approach and our approach of giving New Zealanders real choices in education, and the Government\u2019s reckless approach on welfare spending, whereby the number of sickness beneficiaries has increased by 44 percent. That is reality: the number of sickness beneficiaries has increased by 44 percent. We say that there should be accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying that in the year 2000 Mr Goff introduced legislation that he said listened to New Zealand\u2019s concerns about crime. He said in the select committee that New Zealanders were sick and tired of people being released after serving two-thirds of their sentence. What was his solution? They are out now in one-third of the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ENational says that the violent criminal will serve the full time. That is the cry; that is what New Zealanders want. So the election will be contested on Labour\u2019s divisions and failed policies, and National\u2019s policy of dealing with the issues of mainstream New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002233c64d930d01425b981cae85c0ea37e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233c64d930d01425b981cae85c0ea37e2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I will just comment briefly on the previous speaker\u2019s valedictory comments about crime. Everybody in this House is aware that the crime rate is down 22 percent since it peaked under the National - New Zealand First Government. Everybody in this country is aware that four new prisons are being built because of a much tougher stance on law and order. Everyone in this country is aware that people like William Bell get a life sentence and serve 30 years before they can even be considered for parole. Everybody in this country knows that the Parole Board now cannot release offenders where there is undue risk to the public. Everybody in this country knows that the police have raised crime resolution rates to the point where the rates are doing better than at any time since the 1980s. There are now more police than ever before, with a budget of over $1 billion. This Labour-led Government has responded to the referendum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut I have one question for Lockwood Smith. What did he mean when he asked senators \u201Cwhether it would be worthwhile for the United States think tank to assist with a public campaign following the National Party study review\u201D on nuclear-free New Zealand? What did he mean? Why was it that the United States senators said he was being inappropriate in asking the United States to intervene in something it should not, and they would not, intervene in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022814964fd40f0410eae26c2c2efc22977\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2005/06 Estimates) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 35\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; ACT New Zealand 7; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 22\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225cc985235bee4d428c0d2dc5f66ca44f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 35\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; ACT New Zealand 7; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 22\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fe42f93eb674209bc3efdc4013d795e\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002255d5251aa862472cbc45e03b2b1d4e87\u0022\u003ETabling of Document\u2014Hon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022 data-id=\u002215d0b64978c14f02b62fbfd4d5b424b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215d0b64978c14f02b62fbfd4d5b424b7\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (Whip\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. At the conclusion of the last debate the Hon Phil Goff was waving around an official document and quoting from it. I request that he table that document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022e233a69a90c24478979ee77028a7bd15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e233a69a90c24478979ee77028a7bd15\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I tabled it yesterday. The member needs to come up to speed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e11df43ea1a345cfbc93a5ce5525fa98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e11df43ea1a345cfbc93a5ce5525fa98\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (Whip\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E No, what Mr Goff tabled yesterday was a very minor quotation from the document. I believe he had the full document here today, and I request that he table the full document he was quoting from. The member needs to come up to speed with the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa2c07bd9c904387b063152e0ee86608\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has indicated the paper he was reading from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1d27d63997341f6ae5e86ff636d49f5\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226849a9d3f2ee4769980810e3da49823c\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022707eae360d8f42bd9bd1886692973f20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022707eae360d8f42bd9bd1886692973f20\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228b0b28611e784796928c2ef00fa9f51c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Imprest Supply (Second for 2005/06) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 35\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; ACT New Zealand 7; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 22\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002234256602e088411d8ed0c2e9e0d82ec0\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227217d36d9c70463ba3baeccf2c53f041\u0022\u003EMisuse of Drugs (Changes to Controlled Drugs) Order 2005 and the Misuse of Drugs (Presumption of Supply - Amphetamine) Order 2005\u2014Approval\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00220405e94c745646728c79ab221cc4609d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220405e94c745646728c79ab221cc4609d\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That pursuant to section 4A of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, this House approve the Misuse of Drugs (Changes to Controlled Drugs) Order 2005, and the Misuse of Drugs (Presumption of Supply - Amphetamine) Order 2005 made under section 4 of that Act. Those orders demonstrate the Labour-Progressive Government\u2019s commitment to a national drug policy that targets drug use in three ways: through supply control, through demand reduction, and by providing treatment services for the victims of drug peddlers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003ELast year the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs recommended the reclassification of amphetamine, commonly known as speed, as well as MDA or Ecstasy, and, as Associate Minister of Health in charge of the Government\u2019s drug policies, I accepted those recommendations. Both amphetamine and Ecstasy are currently classified as controlled drugs under Part 2 of the second schedule\u2014that is, under class B2 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975. The Misuse of Drugs (Changes to Controlled Drugs) Order 2005 before the House today will reclassify those drugs to Part 1 of the second schedule and as class B1 drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThat reclassification will have the effect of enabling police officers, under section 18 of the Act, to detain, search, and seize for those drugs without warrant, and reflects the degree of potential risk of harm that experts associate with those substances. I want to point out to the House that that recommendation to the House is not made in any sense by a political decision. It is a recommendation to me as Associate Minister of Health, through the Cabinet committee and Cabinet process, that that action be taken because of the extreme seriousness and effects of those drugs. Those substances are, as I have said, extremely harmful, and by supporting this move Parliament is saying it agrees that it is not in the public interest for those drugs to be used as so-called recreational drugs. That reclassification is also consistent with New Zealand\u2019s international obligations under the United Nations drug classification framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs also recommended that the amount for the presumption of supply for amphetamine be set at 5 grams. The presumption of supply concept is a rebuttable presumption that when a person is found with a certain amount of a controlled drug, he or she possesses the drug for the purpose of dealing, by way of sale or supply. In plain English, that means that the onus is on the person found with the drug to prove that he or she was not supplying the drug, and that the drug was, instead, intended solely for personal use. Currently, the amount for the presumption of supply for amphetamine is 56 grams. While that may not sound much in terms of the weight of groceries we buy, I can assure members that my official advice is that that is an enormous supply of amphetamine\u2014way beyond what anyone could possibly want for his or her personal use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003ESo the change will have the effect of significantly increasing penalties for offences involving possession of 5 grams of amphetamine, as well as possession of between 5 and 56 grams. As an example, I tell members that a possession for supply offence, rather than a possession for use offence, will carry a maximum sentence of up to 14 years in prison. It is entirely up to the courts how they exercise their discretion under that change, of course, but if anyone thinks that that indicates the seriousness with which the Government takes the use, abuse, and proliferation of those drugs, then they are right. We do take those drugs seriously, and we do believe they are a real threat to the health and well-being of many New Zealand citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThat offence can be compared with the offence of possession of a class B controlled drug, which carries a maximum sentence of 3 months\u2019 imprisonment, a fine of $500, or both\u2014in other words, a wrap over the knuckles with a wet bus ticket. Our advice is that that penalty should now change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E In relation to amphetamine, the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs found that that drug, like its counterpart methamphetamine, can quickly cause addiction, has been linked overseas to violence, and can cause psychosis, depression, and erratic behaviour. I think that all members will be aware of some of the outcomes of that kind of situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe committee identified an increasing number of risks associated with amphetamine\u2019s current use and distribution. Amphetamine\u2019s addiction potential carries significant health risks. It is also linked to deaths through cerebral vascular haemorrhage, so none of the drugs affected by the motion before us today should be regarded lightly. The Misuse of Drugs (Presumption of Supply - Amphetamine) Order 2005 therefore reflects the fact that that drug\u2019s level of harm to New Zealanders is potentially and, in fact, very serious indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EMDMA, or Ecstasy, already has a 5 gram presumption of supply, so we do not need to change that. Ecstasy was classified class B2 in 1987, but the experts recommended its reclassification to class B1. They noted the mounting evidence that Ecstasy-type drugs have a neurotoxic effect, which means they are poisons that act on the nervous system, and that there is a worrying link between New Zealand\u2019s MDMA market and organised crime\u2014some recreational drug! The experts also advised in their 2004 report to me that there was an increasing number of cases of attempted MDMA/Ecstasy manufacture in New Zealand, and they also noted that MDMA/Ecstasy is classified as a schedule 1 or class A drug in other jurisdictions\u2014not, of course, in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThese orders are designed to help ensure that enforcement officers have the powers they need, and I hope to see the orders come into force as soon as possible. Just for the information of the House, I say that if this motion is passed today the new authorities and penalties, through the process that needs to be followed, will come into force by 9 September this year. To complement all the other measures that I have overseen, as leader of the Progressive Party and as Associate Minister of Health in this coalition Government, in order to target the abuse of drugs in this country, these measures, in my view and in the view of the Government, are a necessary and desirable step in one element of our fight against drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022058993edee6948598cae30ea9d65d310\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022058993edee6948598cae30ea9d65d310\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this important Misuse of Drugs (Changes to Controlled Drugs) Order 2005. I do note that the Hon Jim Anderton expressed the commitment of the Progressive-Labour Government to this legislation. I think it fair to say that all parties that have been involved in the Health Committee are hugely worried by the spread of drugs such as amphetamine and methyl amphetamine in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI am, however, concerned that though we now have a rapid classification mechanism to deal with those drugs as they are changed from time to time, it has taken a huge amount of time over the last 5 years to get to where we are. After all, it was in 1999 that under the Rt Hon Wyatt Creech this suggested change to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 was recommended, and it has been almost at snail\u2019s pace, I believe, that the Labour and so-called Progressive coalition Government has finally got to the stage where, today, the changes to be made involve amphetamine and methyl amphetamine going from a B2 to a B1 classification, and the presumption of supply of amphetamine is going from 56 grams to 5 grams\u2014a much more reasonable amount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI want to re-emphasise once again the importance of the rapid classification measures through the affirmative resolution procedures that were decided on in the amendment in 2003. I do not think that the importance of that procedure should ever be underestimated. It was designed to be used only in the rarest of circumstances, and certainly the Regulations Review Committee that dealt with this made very, very strong recommendations as to the rare use of these procedures. The reason they have come about is the very fact that criminal gangs, and others, have rapidly increased the use of these dangerous drugs in New Zealand. But, more worrying, the methods they have used to import them into New Zealand and distribute them have become more and more sophisticated and more and more difficult for the police to deal with\u2014hence the extraordinary measures that are proposed by this motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIn essence, one of the effects of classification from B2 to B1 is to extend the search and seizure powers of the police. I note that from the justice perspective the most significant feature of this particular decision is that it provides the police with the power to detain, search, and seize without a warrant in circumstances where they have reasonable grounds to believe that offences associated with amphetamine or methamphetamine are occurring. Examples of what has constituted reasonable grounds include, in some cases, actual sightings of a controlled drug\u2014or at least bags of white powder\u2014information, or the presence of a \u201Csmell\u201D, particularly of cannabis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E Now all of those things do have certain dangers to innocent parties associated with them. So these powers should be exercised only with great caution, where there is, indeed, a very good sense by law enforcement officers that they should be used. I note that the criminal justice group says that the actual search and seizure of any controlled drug must also be carried out reasonably for the purposes of section 21 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, which provides that everyone has a right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure, whether of the person, property, or correspondence, or otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is a substantial body of case law on section 21 that indicates the courts will rule that any evidence obtained in the course of the search that is carried out unreasonably, even if lawful, is inadmissible in any subsequent proceedings, in accordance with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. However, there is undoubtedly a tension of balance here as to how it will be used in the future, given particularly the extreme lengths that criminal gangs are using to import and distribute both methyl amphetamine, amphetamine, and their precursors around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIt is also really important to point out just how serious the penalties are when drugs are changed from one schedule to the other. The first schedule, which includes drugs such as heroin, has penalties that include life imprisonment. They are pretty damned serious penalties that one would hope, indeed do make a difference to the gangs. Unfortunately, one of the practical problems is that many of those involved in that traffic are so addicted, or otherwise totally involved in what they are doing, that they seem almost impervious to any penalty that is laid down, even life imprisonment. I think we have seen this all around the world, particularly in cases in Indonesia and Thailand. But today we are changing amphetamine and methamphetamine from B2 to B1 to become class B controlled drugs in the second schedule, with a penalty of up to 14 years\u2019 imprisonment for importation, manufacture, or supply; up to 10 years\u2019 imprisonment for conspiracy to commit an offence; and up to 3 months\u2019 imprisonment, or a $500 fine, or both, for possession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ESo the point that I have been trying to make is that we know there has been an almost terrifying escalation of drug use in New Zealand, particularly over the last 6 years. We have heard that the first clan-labs were busted by the police in about 1998. There were about three that year, and it has evolved rapidly to the order of 200 or 300 clan-labs per year being busted over the last few years. There is no doubt that the escalation of those drugs in New Zealand has been very dramatic and very worrying, and that is the reason why the affirmative resolution procedure has been brought in. Today we have made realistic changes in terms of methamphetamine and methyl amphetamine, changing them from B2 to B1, and taking the presumption of supply from 56 grams down to 5 grams. However, it is important to remember that here we are also allowing the police to have pretty well uncontrolled search and seizure actions available to them, and that balance must be very much kept in mind in terms of individuals\u2019 rights and must not be overused by the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThe National Party supports this resolution and hopes, indeed, that it will help in the responsible control of this sort of illicit drug expansion in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b75907a479ff40a78059963e01433881\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b75907a479ff40a78059963e01433881\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E This may seem a very technical measure, but it is very significant. I thank the members of the Health Committee who worked on this in an extraordinarily rapid manner in order to get this measure through in this session of Parliament. It does show the commitment of this Parliament to look at all three aspects of national drug policy and control, which are about the control of drugs, the demand reduction, and also treatment services for those addicted to drugs. This little measure today is about controlling the supply side of drugs. It certainly targets the dealers and not the users, and that is a very important message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOne other really important message in this measure today is that a lot of our young people\u2014and this extends to quite young adults\u2014are using drugs quite prevalently out there, as party drugs, and they think that they are safe. They think they are recreational drugs that will keep them going through the night. They have no idea of the emerging evidence of the harm these drugs can cause. We on the Health Committee also learnt about the harm related to the use of alcohol at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe member who spoke before me said that we had been very slow with the expeditious scheduling notice of motion mechanism that is now in the misuse of drugs orders. The member is quite wrong. This was referred to the Health Committee on 23 June. We all agreed that this matter was very important, and that we should debate it and pass it in this term of Government. We were a little bit concerned about some aspects of the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs. It had not been publishing its minutes, its reports, and its papers, and that was something we had agreed to when we debated the original Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill (No 3)\u2014that is, information from the Expert Advisory Committee must be made publicly available on the web and on the Internet as an educative tool for New Zealand to understand why that committee was making those orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis notice of motion process is really interesting. The expert advisory committee notifies the Minister of Health, the Minister of Health then takes a paper to Cabinet, and the order is referred to the Health Committee. The Health Committee has 28 days to report back to the House. We can call for evidence in that time. Today we are having this debate on two substances. We did not really call for public input into this, and we on the select committee acknowledge that. That was a step that we overlooked, because we wanted this measure to be expeditiously scheduled and passed now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ETwo substances are considered in this measure. One is amphetamine, commonly known as speed, and we are just changing the presumption of supply; and the other is Ecstasy, or MDMA. We are changing the classification from B2 to B1. We looked at amphetamine and we heard from the expert advisory committee on the evidence. Decisions are evidence based. It is not because we are worried about the increased use out in the community, but we asked for evidence. There are some treatment modalities that amphetamines are useful for, such as narcolepsy and ADHD\u2014for children on Ritalin. It is a type of amphetamine substance. Amphetamine does have some euphoric effects. It is a controlled drug. Therefore, it needs to be prescribed by a medical specialist. Out on the street it has lots of names, like speed, crank, go fast, whiz, and uppers. It is an upper. But there is confusion out there in the public eye about methamphetamine and amphetamines. They are all lumped together in their mind. They are just known as amphetamines and they are used very, very regularly as recreational drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E The expert advisory committee was really concerned about the increased use and abuse of amphetamines and strongly suggested that they were not safe recreational drugs. Obviously increased availability on the street and importation levels have been quite astronomical. There has been an increase in arrests for amphetamines of 650 percent since 2002, which is really, really high. There is a high risk of harm, especially for those who are vulnerable and those with depression and mental health problems. We have also noted an associated increase in road safety harm, especially the combined use of amphetamines and alcohol. So we decided, and all supported, that the presumption of supply had to go from 56 grams to 5 grams. These are actually used recreationally in little lots of 100 capsules or tabs. We decided that was a most unsafe practice, which was the evidence that we received. But we did need more evidence on police interception, especially their powers without a warrant, and we are becoming increasingly concerned about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, MDMA, or Ecstasy\u2014it has lots of street names such as E, Adam, \u201CEcy\u201D, Hug Drug\u2014has no known therapeutic value at all, it is simply a recreational-use drug on the market. Overseas it has a much higher classification than we use in New Zealand. We were very concerned about Ecstasy statistics for young users coming into accident and emergency departments on Friday and Saturday nights, after having been out partying. We have known of three deaths in New Zealand that were Ecstasy related. They were predominantly, though, from hypothermia and over-hydration. There is a common myth that one has to drink lots of water while on Ecstasy, and those three deaths were related to over-hydration and hypothermia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe need to get these drugs in perspective. It is known that Ecstasy alone is actually less harmful than alcohol. I think that all of us are worrying and panicking about street use of recreational drugs and we forget that the most harmful effects are from alcohol, which has caused a lot more actual physical harm than these street drugs. However, we are concerned about increased use and importation, and this reclassification today allows for increased search and seizure powers without a warrant, which is something that I am sure my colleague Nandor Tanczos will be concerned about, as we all were, too, and we need to watch this trend on the Health Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe penalties are substantially increased by this reclassification. At the moment the penalty is 3 months\u2019 imprisonment or a $500 fine. As a result of this reclassification the penalty can now be up to 14 years\u2019 imprisonment, and that is something we all need to be concerned about. I am pleased to support this motion today and I thank the members of the Health Committee for taking this so seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1ac22dc42f8476f99ec833d3c75b5af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1ac22dc42f8476f99ec833d3c75b5af\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of New Zealand First, I rise to support the motion that this House approve the Misuse of Drugs (Changes to Controlled Drugs) Order 2005 and the Misuse of Drugs (Presumption of Supply\u2014Amphetamine) Order 2005, made under section 4 of the Misuse of Drugs Act. In New Zealand First we recognise the extraordinary harm caused to New Zealanders by drugs and, more recently, amphetamines. It is an extremely serious problem out on the streets. Despite the number of prosecutions and the very best efforts of the police, this drug industry appears to be thriving, with no signs of any abatement. We know that the escalation of usage is dramatic. We urgently need a strategy to try to turn round the harm caused by the usage of these drugs in our country. They are dangerous and they are exceedingly harmful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe onus in this legislation is on the person found with the drug to prove that he or she was not supplying the drug and that it was intended for personal use. How that can be proved appears to be a challenge to me. Hopefully it is very clear in other legislation. We do need to get very tough on the peddlers of these drugs\u2014in fact, all drugs\u2014and reducing the amount at which amphetamine is presumed to be for supply, from 56 grams to 5 grams, is just one of those measures. From the evidence that we received at the Health Committee, this is a much-needed change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWhile the committee discussed the concerns of the Regulations Review Committee about the need for the affirmative action procedure to be used very carefully, because we all know that the basis of any democracy is for submitters to have their views heard by a select committee, New Zealand First believes that for situations like drugs, where rapid action is required in the interests of the public, this course of action is definitely appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe officials said to the select committee that they needed the ability to amend the supply levels rapidly if there was clear evidence that the supply level was set too low. The lagging of the required legislation in this drugs field has meant that our law enforcement agencies\u2014the Customs Service and the police\u2014have often been totally hamstrung under the present law. We all know that importation levels have increased dramatically. Parliament has a duty to support both the police and the Customs Service in a timely manner in their fight against the illicit use of drugs and the importation of those drugs into this country. Enforcement officers need these powers. New Zealand First supports this motion. We believe that these changes are necessary and desirable in our fight against the use of illicit drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022 data-id=\u00222d5d7405af4b400b836ee218962879b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d5d7405af4b400b836ee218962879b3\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT party joins other parties in the House in supporting this motion. We commend the Health Committee, which presented its report on 6 July. ACT\u2019s Heather Roy is a very active member of that committee and she has advised our caucus that this measure is very worthy of support. We note, of course, that it is aimed at the pushers by tacking the change to the order on to presumption of supply with amphetamines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EWe all know the damage that substance abuse associated with the misuse of amphetamines and methamphetamines is causing in our society. That damage is very severe, although I note, and the point has already been made, that alcohol, taken as a substance, is possibly even more dangerous. But that is not to condone the use of amphetamines or any substance abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe issue in our society is what is causing people\u2014particularly young people, but not exclusively young people\u2014to engage in substance abuse. We have things like glue in our hardware stores. People can buy a 10-litre tin of glue and do immense damage to themselves through substance abuse. For that matter, they could buy gallons of petrol at the petrol station. As a substance itself, petrol would do them harm if it was abused. So the real issue is what is causing people to abuse these substances, thereby doing themselves harm and, too often, others harm in the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003ESo without any hesitation the ACT party supports this motion, which is aimed at those who are pushing the misuse of these substances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec3e46434a75461686401247763f2e14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec3e46434a75461686401247763f2e14\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Let us move beyond the \u201Ctough on drugs\u201D rhetoric and get real about what the House is actually considering today. The Minister stated in his press release this morning that Parliament is saying that it is not in the public interest for these drugs to be used as so-called recreational drugs. Well, actually, that is a load of cobblers. How Parliament says that these drugs should not be used as recreational drugs is by making them illegal, which it did many, many years ago. The changes we are considering in this motion have no logical connection with that statement whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThis motion does two things: it changes the presumption of supply level, and, more significantly, it introduces search without warrant powers for speed and Ecstasy. The only message sent by introducing search without warrant powers for the police is that this Parliament has no regard for the basic human rights guaranteed in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and affirmed in our own New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which includes the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure\u2014and I thank Mr Hutchison for the comments that he made in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E I have in front of me the briefing paper given to the select committee as evidence for why that change was needed, and the reason given was the \u201Cinvolvement of international drug-running syndicates and the increasing seizures\u201D. It is pretty logical that if we are seeing an increase in seizures, then the police already have adequate powers to police the law. It does not make sense to use that to argue that police powers are not adequate. I think the advisers were a bit thrown by the select committee even questioning the need for increased draconian powers for the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003ELet us be clear what this is all about. The advisers told us that the measure is intended to target dealers, and Mr Ken Shirley echoed that delusion. It is not about that, at all. Let us look back on history. When the Government introduced search without warrant powers for cannabis, it said the same thing\u2014that it was to target dealers, not people on the street. But history shows us that those powers are used primarily to target users of drugs rather than dealers of drugs. In fact, a number of cases before the courts have been acquitted, because of police abuse of those powers. It is obvious: if there is a move to bust a major international drug-running syndicate, then the amount of police intelligence and work required to make that drug bust would probably require all that information being used by the police to obtain a search warrant. Getting the warrant would be no problem in such cases. The only time the police do a search without warrant is on an opportunistic fishing expedition on the streets. On those occasions they primarily target users, not dealers. So the argument that somehow these search without warrant powers will be used to target dealers, is simply a fantasy. It is not borne out by logic or the evidence of history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EI note that search without warrant powers were never vetted under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, because we did not have that legislation in 1975 when the Misuse of Drugs Act was passed. The committee was advised by Crown Law that it had not considered the issue in terms of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, because the primary legislation was already in place. It is time that the \u201Csearch without warrant\u201D powers under the Misuse of Drugs Act were put through a proper test under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act to see whether they meet with the fundamental human rights that we take for granted in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe motion also lowers the presumption of supply levels, and, of course, I agree that 56 grams is probably a large amount, not a realistic amount. But let us be clear: if a person has 6 grams or even 2 or 3 grams, he or she can still be prosecuted for possession for sale and can be convicted if the case can be proved. The only difference made by the proposed change to the legislation is that the presumption of supply level simply means that the basic principle of justice\u2014that is, one is innocent until proven guilty\u2014is overturned. That is what is meant by presumption of supply. Therefore, if a person is caught with more, then he or she has to prove that it is not for supply. How does one do that? Honestly, God only knows. I say that advisedly, because the advisers did not know the answer; neither did the Minister when I raised the matter with him. So how on earth do people prove that drugs in their possession are not for sale, when police have no need to provide any corroborating evidence, whatsoever? I have no idea how a person could defend that in a court of law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003ESo the matter is a highly significant one, because possession for supply carries a maximum penalty of 14 years. It is to our shame that people convicted of crimes of violence, rape, and the importation of child pornography, regularly receive sentences lower than those handed down to people convicted of supplying drugs to people who want to buy them. We see such cases regularly reported in our newspapers, and we really have to question our priorities in terms of the criminal justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe affirmative resolution procedure was designed for expeditious scheduling of drugs and for evidence-based decision-making. It is totally unacceptable that the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs could recommend to the Health Committee a change to introduce search without warrant powers for the police, yet not provide any evidence as to the need for that change in the law. When advisory committee officials were asked about that, they apologised and said that next time they would do a little better. I say that is unacceptable. The whole point of the procedure is to have evidence-based decision-making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EIt seems contrary to the intention of the Misuse of Drugs Act to put forward bold and bald assertions without proving the evidence as to why they are needed. The affirmative resolution procedure was also designed to allow some public input, either during the consideration by the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs or during the select committee procedure. I note that the Minister introduced this notice just before a 4-week adjournment, and I wonder whether it was to ensure that the public had no opportunity to have its say before the select committee, because when advisory committee officials were asked about that, they confirmed they had made no attempt to get information from anyone outside their own committee, which has a pretty restricted area of expertise. There are a whole lot of areas of expertise that are not represented on the committee; neither did the select committee have the opportunity to call for input from the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EIt is scandalous that this Parliament passes motions like this one, whereby the penalties for possession of 6 grams of speed or Ecstasy are significantly increased, where a draconian new search power for the police\u2014in the context of those powers already being abused\u2014is introduced, and where the public has had no input, whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022401c435349c44b0cb58e8494521a86c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022401c435349c44b0cb58e8494521a86c1\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of United Future in support of the Misuse of Drugs (Changes to Controlled Drugs) Order 2005, and the Misuse of Drugs (Presumption of Supply - Amphetamine) Order 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI was driving home the other night from a late meeting, as most of us are doing now in the time leading up to the election\u2014and my human rights were violated. I turned the corner and there they were, with lights flashing, ready to pull me over and breath test me! I celebrate the fact that the police were prepared to have a team out there to breath test me, and everybody else on the road that night, because what that offered me was protection. It meant they would be checking that the other people using the road that night were safe to be driving, and that my safety was important. I did not for 1 minute object to being pulled over and delayed, for the short time it took to be breathalysed. In that case the innocent until proven guilty rule was not being applied, but I am grateful for the efforts of the police in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future is very keen to help move this issue along. We understand and appreciate that on these matters Parliament needs to be able to reflect on the evidence-based but urgent needs that cross our path in respect of the supply of illicit drugs in this country. Certainly, the therapeutic benefits of the drugs we are talking about are quite minimal. They do have some uses and we accept that, but generally they are mostly used in this country for illicit purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs is able to approach the Minister and suggest that new substances be added to schedules, or that the classification of a substance be upgraded by Order in Council. United Future, in our recent amendment to the Misuse of Drugs Act, made sure that the movement by Order in Council can only be used to strengthen the provisions around the substance\u2014that is, if there were ever a decision to liberalise the classification of a drug, that could not be taken by Order in Council but would require full scrutiny by Parliament, and full input by the public through the submission process. We are very pleased to have put that amendment forward. We are very happy to be able to respond quickly to crises, but we think the opposite effect of an Order in Council\u2014whereby it could be used in an unhelpful way to downgrade the classification of a substance without full parliamentary scrutiny\u2014is an unwise and reckless provision, and we are glad to have been part of the change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI want to counter something that was said previously. One of the members talked about the fact that Ecstasy, we were told, was less of a risk than alcohol. I think we need to read very carefully what was said, because it is not actually quite true. What was said was that the public health risk of Ecstasy was notably lower than that of alcohol\u2014and that is quite a different matter. We accept that we still have a way to go in terms of the binge-drinking culture of New Zealanders, in order to address our approach to the substance of alcohol. Binge drinking is wrong, unhealthy, and dangerous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI was interested in talking recently to a publican who objected to the amount of host responsibility the law puts on him, and who felt there should be a lot more responsibility put on individuals to manage the amount they drank. My response to him was: \u201CYou sell poison; you take responsibility.\u201D I really do think we need to look very carefully at our attitudes towards alcohol. I accept the Green member\u2019s position on that\u2014that we do sometimes give alcohol a lighter treatment\u2014and I agree that that is wrong. United Future would support efforts that are sensible in that regard. There are also some rather silly suggestions about how that might be achieved, and we need to be sensible about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWhy should we reclassify amphetamine? Well, the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs told us that they found there has been increasingly prevalent amphetamine use and importation into New Zealand, clear evidence of the high risk of harm associated with amphetamine use, limited therapeutic applications for the drug, evidence of drug substitution between amphetamine and other amphetamine-type stimulants, and a need for decisive police powers to tackle street-level amphetamine offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that they also gathered evidence to say that there are clear links now between New Zealand\u2019s illicit amphetamine market and organised crime. As I mentioned earlier, there is also a growing concern about the link between substance abuse and road safety, beyond just our current monitoring of alcohol consumption. I believe that in New Zealand, when people are found driving recklessly and breaking the road rules in some way, we need to collect a lot more data to determine whether other substances are present in their systems if alcohol is not. We need to understand a lot more accurately the impact of what is going on with road safety issues, and the link between those and drug abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future does not really need to say more at this stage; we are supportive of this legislation. However, I would like to signal one thing in relation to the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs, on which we rely so heavily for information on these matters. I am very supportive of a lot more transparency in that process. I think it is good that we expect to see the reasons behind the advice it is giving. We need to see where it gets its information from and who it consulted with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future would be supportive of seeing an increased level of transparency in some of the advisory committee\u2019s recent advice on things like party pills, which we have some personal disquiet about. I know that New Zealand First also shares our disquiet. It may be that all we are dealing with is just the cocktail effect of party pills with alcohol, but some of us just want to be really, really sure that these issues the committee gives us clear rulings and advice on are revisited from time to time, and that in an ongoing way it is considering evidence from overseas, as other jurisdictions deal with this very, very serious problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d41a6a3ce9d4fe6bd12a5825b2e5d23\u0022\u003EResource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7ad2f1523e64710b1115ce6918c4462\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u00227a7cdb93d03d4b48b08a790f78b299f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a7cdb93d03d4b48b08a790f78b299f0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment\u003C/span\u003E, on behalf of the Minister for the Environment: I move, That the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a second time. The amendments in the bill will be the biggest change to the Resource Management Act since 1991. The key objectives are to increase certainty, reduce delays and costs, and ensure consistency of process. The amendments are evolutionary improvements rather than revolutionary. They are about finding practical solutions to make the Act work better. Importantly, the amendments do not affect the Act\u2019s fundamental principles of strong environmental protection, local decision-making, and public participation. Rather, the bill focuses on ways to improve the quality of decisions and processes. It includes measures to increase certainty and to reduce delay, cost, and the abuse of process. As Michael Barnett, the CEO of the Auckland chamber of commerce, noted after surveying 350 of its members: \u201CThe issue with the Resource Management Act is not so much the contents of the Act preventing development proceeding, but how it is administered by local authorities.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill forms part of a wider package of reform, which includes improvements to legislation, practice, and resources. We know this package is already having a real impact. According to a 2004 Business New Zealand - KPMG compliance cost survey, average total environment-related compliance costs have decreased by almost 40 percent between 2003 and 2004, from $12,930 in that first year to $7,860 in 2004. KPMG attributed the reduced cost to improved implementation of the Act by local authorities, and to increased resources for the Environment Court since 2001. Delays in appeals to the Environment Court have been slashed by more than half since 2001, due to a substantial boost in funding and a new system for managing the caseload. The Ministry for the Environment is taking on a greater role in helping local government to develop knowledge and practice. That includes enhancing the ministry\u2019s best-practice programme, and targeted one-on-one assistance for specific councils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Government understands that making the Act work is about achieving better administration of the Act. That relies on input from local and central government, developers, and the community. The process for the review built on that. Extensive discussions were held with local government, industry, environmental organisations, and the wider community over an 18-month period. That process was very different from previous reviews of the Act, and Local Government New Zealand has described it as: \u201Can exemplary collaborative exercise.\u201D I will contrast Labour\u2019s approach to working with the local government and business sector successfully with that of National. It is only a week ago now since National Party leader Dr Brash had to lead Nick Smith back to apologise to local government representatives, after a typically boorish attack by Mr Smith at a social gathering at the Local Government New Zealand conference. Though few people would actually consider being described as a traitor to the National Party to be any kind of insult at all, Mr Smith\u2019s uncontrolled outburst has offended and angered many in the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThis bill is about achieving the right balance between local and national interests. It enables greater use of national policy statements and national environmental standards, by reinforcing their role and status under the Act. National policy statements and national environmental standards will give clear national direction, and will provide certainty and consistency for communities and developers. The review of the Act highlighted that some decisions need to be dealt with at a national level, or with assistance from central government. The bill provides more tools in that area, including the ability to make Crown submissions, appoint a member of a hearings panel, and direct councils to consider matters jointly. Those options are decided in consultation with local authorities from a menu of options that will ensure that central government can play a more effective role in matters that may have national significance. The bill also provides more powers for the Minister for the Environment to ensure local authorities are addressing their functions and duties under the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Government has signalled its intention to take a stronger leadership role in implementing and supporting the Act. However, that will not be at the expense of local decision-making. We have rejected the calls of a few extreme voices that want to see the Act ripped apart for the sake of unfettered development. Quite frankly, that is neither sensible or necessary\u2014nor is it what even the business community has asked us to do. The Government is committed to good local decision-making. Dr Brash says there is too much decision making in the hands of local communities and their councils. Developers should be able to bypass local community decision-making and there should be less recognition, according to National, of those affected by environmental effects, in favour of recognising those who produce them. Silencing communities is, after all, becoming a theme in National\u2019s election promises. Labour\u2019s bill rightly shakes up the decision making under the Act. It sets accreditation standards for local decision-makers, and it gives them powers to make first-instance hearings more effective and robust. The bill improves the design and process for local policy-making. Changes to the requirements for plans mean they will be streamlined and easier to understand. Other changes give greater status to regional policy statements, and therefore enable more integrated and strategic planning across and between districts and regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E The bill clarifies consultation requirements, and promotes better consultation with tangata whenua during the development of plans and policy statements. In terms of resource consents, iwi will have the same opportunity to participate as any other person or party affected by an activity. The bill provides a framework for local authorities to enter into joint management agreements with public bodies and iwi. That is aimed at encouraging success stories, such as the partnerships that councils have established with Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa, Te Arawa, and Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua. Other key changes clarify regional council functions under the bill in respect of contaminated land, the integration of infrastructure with land use, and the allocation of natural resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill had the benefit of a robust select committee process, and I thank the Local Government and Environment Committee for all the hard work it put into the bill. My colleagues will talk more about that process. The Government heard submissions from all sections of the community and, as a result, it has recommended a number of changes. Those changes are consistent with the principles of the review and the original policy intention. The select committee process has also highlighted that many of the criticisms of the court are outdated. The court is taking steps to minimise costs and delays. It does not conduct every appeal on a full de novo basis, and it tailors the process to the circumstances of each case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends the Electricity Act 1992 by extending the existing rights of operators in terms of works relating to roads and level crossings. The bill extends those rights to high voltage works but not to above-ground structures, such as poles or towers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EA Supplementary Order Paper will be tabled today, containing several amendments that the Government wishes to make to the bill. Most of the amendments are technical in nature, and seek to clarify wording or to improve the workability of the bill as a result of changes recommended by the select committee. However, there are six more substantive amendments. First, it is proposed that the bill be amended to include a clear statement that consent authorities must consider the value of existing investment when considering applications for a new consent to replace an existing consent, on its expiry. That was part of the Government\u2019s original policy, and it will encourage maintenance of and long-term investment in existing infrastructure. Second, the bill as reported back creates confusion about the content of the iwi register and the process for its development. The Supplementary Order Paper includes changes that clarify when local authorities should include details of hap\u016B on the register. There is also material relating to the national policy statements and the New Zealand coastal policy statement, and an amendment to the ministerial powers to intervene in matters of national significance in the coastal marine area. Finally, there are two technical amendments proposed to resolve issues that have arisen out of the aquaculture reform and foreshore and seabed legislation. The current wording requires regional councils to carry out a full review of regional policy statements. That requirement is being somewhat softened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003ELabour is committed to having a clean and healthy environment, and to giving people a say in environmental decision-making. Protecting our environment is a strategic investment that all of us wish to make for New Zealand\u2019s future. The Resource Management Act is about striking the right balance between using our environment and protecting it for future generations. The wide support that this bill has received reflects the acceptability of the changes it contains, and I am pleased to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022631d4c04b399452a98c175fd6837c59b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022631d4c04b399452a98c175fd6837c59b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E In no area of public policy has the Labour Government made a greater hash of things than in respect of resource management. It has been a comedy of errors and blunders for 6 years, for which this country is paying a high price. It is paying in terms of a 38 percent increase in traffic congestion in a city like Auckland. It is paying in terms of security of power supply. A number of officials are crossing their legs, their fingers, and everything else to try to keep the lights on, and power prices have gone up by over 52 percent. I am not at all surprised that the Minister is running to hide. I would be, too, with this sort of a botch up. We have seen a lack of investment in key areas, such as forestry. New Zealand should be investing in timber processing rather than in exporting logs. The environment is paying a high price, as well, for the fumbles and errors of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is quite telling that this is the last legislative act of this rotten, dying Government. [Interruption] I say to Mr Samuels that on its very first day the Labour Government said that the Resource Management Act was beautifully written, beautifully crafted, and did not need changing. One of the very first acts of the Government in 1999 was to reject Simon Upton\u2019s amendment bill. Six years later, a grovelling, snivelling Minister is back before the Parliament, saying: \u201CWell, actually we got it wrong. We\u2019ve got to somehow patch up this RMA in the very last week of the House.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen the bill was introduced\u2014the Minister\u2019s big flagship\u2014David Benson-Pope said that the most significant change was removing de novo hearings in the Environment Court. That is what David Benson-Pope told the Parliament and the people of New Zealand. Yet now it has suddenly gone. We have seen more flip-flops on this bill than on Bondi Beach. The Government has had to surrender ground all over the place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet me give another example. The member opposite, Judith Tizard, said that it was \u201Cevil and dangerous\u201D to refer things directly to the Environment Court. Well, what does this bill do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df7f63bc4a349cd99b65ec87ae7b96d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: I did not. What absolute rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f99bf335af345048c9a2e19c9b74bc9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well she did. I ask her to check the Hansard of November 1998, when she said in the House that Simon Upton\u2019s proposal for projects to be able to go directly to the Environment Court was \u201Cevil and dangerous\u201D. But now she supports it. That shows that members opposite will say absolutely anything to save their political bacon. I would like to know whether Marian Hobbs will contribute to this debate. She is the Minister who has been in charge of Labour\u2019s botch-ups with the Resource Management Act for the last 6 years. The Government is like a beached whale. It is flailing about and has no idea what it will do to resolve the very serious issues for New Zealand in respect of the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI go back to the issue of direct referral to the Environment Court. Labour says that National would politicise the process. Well, is that not interesting? Under this bill, who will decide which projects get referred directly to the Environment Court? The answer is the Minister. In other words, if someone is a mate of the Government, and if someone has written out some big cheques for Labour\u2019s election campaign, that person will be able to avoid the council hearing and go straight off to the Environment Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c95b4590ef473593d851566453a04a\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: At least it doesn\u2019t come from Uncle Sam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228843e43de5b0459098b021156c69f55d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, well, is that not an interesting remark from Jill Pettis? Perhaps she would like to talk to Dover Samuels, who has been getting cheques from Uncle Sam\u2014I understand that the amount was $10,000. Such diversions are not surprising. The Government\u2019s position is so weak on these issues that it does not want to debate the real issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen the Labour Party talked about the importance of community consultation and community involvement and it introduced a 32-page Supplementary Order Paper, which was tabled this morning, to become law by tonight. Such is the respect that this Government has for public consultation it is prepared to make 32 pages of changes to the Resource Management Act, with zero consultation. Opposition parties such as mine received this Supplementary Order Paper only this morning. I ask what sort of outrageous abuse of the lawmaking process is that. The Government has the cheek to talk about the importance of public consultation. Do not make me sick! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI turn to what is wrong with this bill. Firstly, it is quite extraordinary what this bill does not do. Everybody knows that a gravy train of indulgence has been created for M\u0101ori and iwi as a consequence of the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E Can I give members a practical example. My local Richmond garden club wants to be able to upgrade an area of public park in my electorate. Its members are all volunteers, but they have been told they have to pay a local iwi supervisor $40 an hour to ensure they do not dig up any old pipis or the like that M\u0101ori had there. What sort of outrage or lunacy is there, in that respect? This Government has forked out millions of dollars in relation to the new prison at Port Waikato\u2014paid to grease the palms of the local friendly iwi so that the prison might be built. There is example after example, and what does this bill do to deal with the matter so that we might not chase the taniwha when we are trying to build a road? What does this bill do about those issues? The answer is: absolutely nothing\u2014in fact, it actually makes it worse. What this Government is proposing with regard to co-management will only make those problems with the Resource Management Act more difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen there are issues in respect of how long it takes to make changes in a plan. What really makes mainstream New Zealanders angry with this Government over the Resource Management Act is when it messes with their sport. Eden Park in Auckland needs to be upgraded in order for New Zealand to have a chance of hosting the rugby world cup in 2012, yet this Government is handing out money to the opponents of that upgrade so that they might prevent it. With regard to the Western Springs Speedway, we see that this Government is killing it off and giving money to the speedway\u2019s opponents. National will be putting forward amendments at the Committee stage to provide for the resolution of that problem in a sensible way, by empowering the Auckland City Council to make decisions for its community. I ask Dover Samuels whether he will be voting for the amendment to save the Western Springs speedway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c270e9122145c386cf9d8d46a12cc9\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: You are doing all the talking; you tell us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223054ec8292e949db88e443155a613857\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Ah! You see, members opposite, for all the talk about trusting councils, will have a real test in deciding whether to support our amendment, which says that it is for councils to decide whether a notified plan will take effect at that time. I will bet that members opposite will vote for bureaucracy rather than for common sense. For all the talk we have from Labour members about empowering councils and communities, those members are really into funding their narrow sector mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe reality is that the Resource Management Act has turned into legislation whereby the minority is able to stop the majority. A National Government\u2014a change of Government\u2014will be required to inject some common sense into that Act so that we can have decent environmental standards, and also so that New Zealanders can get on, grow, and develop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002268e90244d87a4a17a703aef2ad66f71d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268e90244d87a4a17a703aef2ad66f71d\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER (Labour\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E The unprincipled rhetoric of that last speech can be unpicked by two simple examples. National will always scratch the itch. Its representative did so in relation to M\u0101ori issues in that last speech by saying that nothing in this bill changes the status quo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a29bf2b6a054019881afccd81e64b4a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b76e813f87b43a9a0a948d922f899e9\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith has just said that that is right. He was obviously asleep at the relevant times at the Local Government and Environment Committee, because one of the things this bill does is make it absolutely clear that no applicant for a resource consent has an obligation to consult with anyone\u2014with anyone, including iwi or M\u0101ori groups. There is now no obligation to consult. There was an uncertainty of law, until this bill was brought forward, as to whether that was the position. This bill remedies that uncertainty by making it clear that no one has to consult with anyone else prior to making an application for a resource consent. That change in the law is appropriate, because we all want to have transparent procedures in this country whereby no one can blackmail other people to pay money in order to get resource consents. So Dr Smith, on behalf of the National Party, has misinformed listeners today on that important point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other issue is that he said there were problems with great delays in dealing with applications under the Resource Management Act. That was the position 5 years ago, but it is not the position now. Again, Dr Smith was on the select committee when we met with Judge Bollard, the principal planning judge of the Environment Court. Judge Bollard set out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273aa6720386741648469c4f95a4f879a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member, but there are far too many interjections across the House from one to another. I mention to members that the rules permitting interjections are predicated on the assumption that the person being interjected against has the call. Interjections are not permitted at all when they are directed at a member who does not have the call, and that practice has been going on far too often.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfc5be9755934c1da640f1e3a3ed75d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was true of my speech. I had a continual barrage of interjections\u2014quite contrary to the speech of the Minister, to whom we gave a pretty fair hearing. Now, when the tables are turned and a Labour member is speaking, suddenly you get all precious\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2fb6ba7557b49c78a8e01b2f23b0e3e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No! The ruling has been given because two members who do not have the call\u2014you and Mr Samuels\u2014have been interjecting on each other. You have been doing it far too often. I did not pick on just one person; it was one all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d9d123681b24b9992c85be1deb503fa\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank you for that ruling, Mr Speaker, and trust that that time will not come out of my speech time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb4f813864c46b58079c4fd204d644f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241b0b3bac5454e399070ace53efd44d2\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The second issue on which Dr Smith misled listeners concerned the suggestion that time frames for dealing with appeals on consents have not been improved. We heard from Judge Bollard, the Principal Environment Court Judge\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef17b93c93984e59a0d3fb260a15ea95\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I never said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206da16ffb5214b599d4be5f8991a896e\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member said there were still substantial delays that were problematic in terms of consents, but the reality is different. Judge Bollard came to the select committee and showed us that the majority of cases are now allocated a hearing date upon appeal within 6 months of the date of the appeal. There are exceptions to that, but those exceptions are cases where the parties are in mediation and are happy, on all sides, for the matter to be delayed. Apart from those cases, the majority of cases are being dealt with in a very timely period. Why is that? The answer is twofold. Firstly, a large number of plan references\u2014or appeals against plans, as people might understand them to be\u2014that were outstanding have been resolved. Secondly, the number of Environment Court judges has been increased, so there are not as many delays as there were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe select committee and, indeed, the Government were faced with strident criticism of the Resource Management Act. The essential choice for any central Government on those issues is whether the decision-making process is delegated to councils, with appeal rights to another body, or whether decisions are taken at central Government level, in Wellington. I, for one, and this Government believe that the current principle of delegating those decisions to territorial authorities is the right way to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhen the matter came to the select committee, we had experimented with the idea that we would truncate appeal rights by limiting them to re-litigations of evidence that had already been given at initial council hearings. That had some initial attraction, because it was thought that it would avoid going through the facts twice. But, as was pointed out by almost all submitters, be they territorial authorities, developers, environmental groups, the Law Society, or the Planning Institute, the sting in the tail is that, because only fewer than one in 10 cases goes on appeal, we do not want to add costs to the nine cases that do not go on appeal, in order to save costs on the one in 10 that does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E The problem we have to grapple with is that if we limit appeal rights so as not to give people a right to introduce new evidence on appeal, then everyone is forced to go about their initial hearing before the council in a much more thorough way, which requires them to lead more expensive expert evidence, to take a more litigious approach, and probably more often to employ lawyers to represent them at the first hearing. That is undesirable in terms of both the accessibility of the initial forum to lay people and the cost of the process to applicants and objectors alike. The Local Government and Environment Committee felt that that evidence was compelling, and the Government agreed. So we have reverted to a position similar to what we had prior to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut we have made an important change: the Environment Court must now have regard to the original decision at the first hearing. Until now, the Environment Court has been able to start again and completely ignore the council hearing. Indeed, on occasions the Environment Court has said that it does not even need to read the original decision, because it has the right to start again and to decide as it thinks fit without regard to the original council decision. We have changed that situation by making it an obligation of the Environment Court to have regard to the original decision. In effect, that means that the Environment Court will have to give reasons if it departs from the decision of the council. That is very proper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill does a couple of other things. It sets up a regime to deal with matters that cross boundaries and projects that are very large. The most recent examples are Meridian Energy\u2019s applications for consents on Project Aqua. Such projects are so large and so complex that they are very difficult for smaller councils, especially, to deal with. Those councils do not have the expertise or the resources needed to deal with some of those applications relating to very large projects. So there has been a call, not just from developers like Meridian Energy but also from councils and other interest groups, to have some of those bigger things dealt with under a separate process. We have set up that separate process in this bill, but we have taken steps to ensure that it will apply only Resource Management Act principles. We are not weighting it in favour of the outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe select committee made an additional recommendation to protect the independence of decisions on those matters by making sure that the decision-making body is always chaired by an independent judge. In this case the judge has to be either a member of the Environment Court or a retired member of the Environment Court. So a judge will always hear those matters independently, with an expert board that will be well placed to consider the issues raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ELong hearings on big, complex issues can take 6 months to a year, and no one who is running that particular gauntlet wants to have to do it twice. We do not want a board of inquiry listening to things for 6 months and then an appeal right creating a similar sort of hearing, again on the facts, for another 6 months. That is a waste of everyone\u2019s time and money. The appeal might reach a slightly different answer, but I do not think it would normally be a better answer. So in respect of applications that have been called in and put through this special process, appeals are limited to matters of law rather than re-litigation of the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe select committee heard about problems with the complexity of layers of plans where some councils have not finished their planning documents. The plans are the planning laws for the district. Some areas have old transitional plans\u2014which were old town and country plans\u2014proposed plans under the Resource Management Act, proposed variations, and proposed variations to proposed variations, none of which have been finished. That creates layers of complexity and means that more applications have to be dealt with as non-complying activities. Even the most expert people have trouble knowing what is allowed and what is not allowed. As a consequence, the select committee has recommended that plans and variations at the council stage of proceedings should be completed within 2 years of the date of their notification. That recommendation came from the select committee, and it is a good one. I thank the select committee members for their hard work on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1f45617e8594da5af06d62a789a546e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1f45617e8594da5af06d62a789a546e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a very serious point of order about parliamentary process in respect of Supplementary Order Paper 389, which has been tabled by the Government today. It is a 36-page Supplementary Order Paper. I have counted up the number of clauses it changes\u2014it changes 132 clauses of the bill. It is a very significant Supplementary Order Paper. On the back page, the Supplementary Order Paper states: \u201CThis Supplementary Order Paper refines the drafting of changes made to the Bill \u2026\u201D, and includes this sentence: \u201CIt also includes drafting to give effect to new policy.\u201D That is all it states\u2014\u201Cto give effect to new policy.\u201D If we read the Standing Orders\u2014and I notably want to introduce members\u2019 attention to Standing Order 256\u2014we see that an explanatory note must state the policy that the bill seeks to achieve. Well, for the explanatory note simply to state that the Supplementary Order Paper is to give effect to new policy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8311f890d114fb9b707f034a97a0938\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5b7d15b9a0442378ec387ac90eba37b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is a very important point of order. I know that Jill Pettis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db3e2c88f6f4388b8f82b9d242c030a\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228391443794b944118b20f0393d10680b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I know what the member is going to say. I am well aware, and so are members, that there are to be no interjections at all during a point of order. The member will stand and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f508884e6a481d9242e093e31ee07f\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284cc3234f5e249348c9afe472d9ddb5d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022437dca5e46ff4feea616e662b7cf459c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I can understand why the Government is not interested in democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4f9e933b7214446b8765687a1aa7287\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Come to the point of order, please, Dr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295672590cf5048f2a81560f5b428bece\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is that all the explanatory note states about the 36 pages of changes to this bill is: \u201CIt also includes drafting to give effect to new policy.\u201D That cannot in any way be deemed to comply with the requirement that an explanatory note state the policy it seeks to achieve. The reason why this is such a serious matter, Mr Assistant Speaker, and why I ask you to give a considered ruling\u2014and I am drawing it to your attention at the earliest possible moment\u2014is that this Supplementary Order Paper was tabled only today. It is intended to be the law of the land by tonight. For MPs to be able to debate it intelligently, when there have been policy changes\u2014and quite clearly there have, because the Supplementary Order Paper states that it will give effect to new policy\u2014there must actually be in the explanatory note, as is a requirement of the Standing Orders, something about what that new policy is. I ask you, Mr Assistant Speaker, to make a ruling that this explanatory note does not comply with the Standing Orders, and to urgently seek the Government and the Minister to provide an explanatory note that does comply with the rules of this House and treats democracy with a bit of respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8f28d33d01a42839009f893cc2cb3ee\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for your deliberation and consideration, Dr Smith. Standing Order 256 relates to the explanatory note of a bill. It does not apply to a Supplementary Order Paper, which does not have to have an explanatory note, at all. There is nothing to prevent a Supplementary Order Paper from being circulated during the second reading debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226984e65c6b774219bb50f88a65338abd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226984e65c6b774219bb50f88a65338abd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yes, I do note that Standing Order 256 relates to the explanatory note of a bill. But are you giving a ruling that an explanatory note of a Supplementary Order Paper does not have to comply with that Standing Order? Quite clearly, a Supplementary Order Paper is about a change to a bill\u2014it introduces new policy. This Supplementary Order Paper is quite direct in saying that there is new policy; it just does not tell us what it is. Are you really giving a ruling that an explanatory note on a Supplementary Order Paper does not have to comply with the requirement in Standing Order 256, with regard to explanatory notes? This is a change to a bill. I do not expect you to make a ruling straight away. It is a very important point. If we are going to have an explanatory note that simply states: \u201CThis Supplementary Order Paper refines the drafting of changes made to the Bill by the select committee. It also includes drafting to give effect to new policy.\u201D, and if that is going to be accepted by this Parliament as an explanatory note, then the whole purpose of having explanatory notes is thrown to the wall. That explanatory note could be used in every single bill or Supplementary Order Paper introduced by a Government, without giving anybody any idea of what the Government intends by the policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00221dbb3a3e08d9470f911107ab7b658d64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221dbb3a3e08d9470f911107ab7b658d64\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you again, Dr Smith, for that consideration. The Speaker himself or herself cannot decide on the adequacy of a Supplementary Order Paper\u2019s explanatory note. There does not have to be a note, at all. It is a matter for criticism in debate, and I am sure that the member will take every opportunity to raise that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb648282fd304764b5cddc22df711ceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb648282fd304764b5cddc22df711ceb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It concerns the last point you made. The Standing Order is very clear. It does not say \u201Cmay\u201D, and I am not asking the Speaker or the Clerk\u2019s Office to make a determination as to whether it is a proper interpretation. What it states is: \u201Cmust have an explanatory note that states the policy \u2026\u201D. That is what the Standing Order states. How can an explanatory note that simply states: \u201Cto give effect to new policy\u201D, possibly comply with a requirement that it state the policy? Where in that explanatory note is the statement of the policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00226d75bc011c554f67902f208e288f5f34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d75bc011c554f67902f208e288f5f34\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I just say to Dr Smith that the Standing Order does not apply to a Supplementary Order Paper, and there is nothing to prevent a Supplementary Order Paper from being circulated during the second reading debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00229f9653676d394eccab7f6707574d8184\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f9653676d394eccab7f6707574d8184\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I acknowledge the point you make, drawing a distinction between a bill and a Supplementary Order Paper, and the requirement for explanatory notes. We would not dispute that case. But Dr Nick Smith raises an interesting point. The Standing Order you refer to with respect to amendments by way of Supplementary Order Paper\u2014Standing Order 299\u2014states: \u201CAny member intending to move an amendment to a bill may lodge a written copy of the amendment \u2026\u201D, and then goes on, without stating any requirement for an explanatory note. The interesting thing about that is that the explanatory note in this case indicates that the drafting is to give effect to new policy, which, I submit, is quite different to an amendment to an existing bill. That is the important distinction. When Standing Order 299 refers to Supplementary Order Papers, it makes clear that it is talking about an amendment to an existing bill\u2014that is, the first instance. But the explanatory note to this Supplementary Order Paper indicates that new policy is being introduced. That is quite a different matter, and a matter to which Dr Nick Smith has drawn your attention in a pretty acute way. I ask for your views on that matter. The two cases are quite distinct. I accept the point that a Supplementary Order Paper does not have to contain an explanatory note and that that is a matter for debate. But when a Supplementary Order Paper itself states that it contains new policy, that makes it different from just an amendment to a bill, as in the explanation with respect to Supplementary Order Papers contained in Standing Order 299.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8c8e3e47b5c48e2b8f7bbe4f0568291\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8c8e3e47b5c48e2b8f7bbe4f0568291\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER (Labour\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, your first ruling was quite right. The other point that the last honourable member spoke about is dealt with under the question of whether the amendment is within the scope of the bill. As long as an amendment is within the scope of the bill, it can be included within a Supplementary Order Paper without an explanatory note.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00221a64c6bc6efc436b9e7a8ed5b6a8844c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a64c6bc6efc436b9e7a8ed5b6a8844c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for your contribution, Mr Parker. The test for admissibility of an amendment is whether it is relevant; not whether it is new policy. It will be for the Chairperson to rule on whether these amendments are relevant when the House gets to the Committee stage of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00226ea7383859f74540b9910deb8afbb89d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ea7383859f74540b9910deb8afbb89d\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dadd9c2fc3d407b9b5c9eb25e4d7dce\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Briefly\u2014I have ruled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b970feae333040ffbd0eedd0f0b8d0fd\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that. But it raises another interesting question. How are we to know whether an amendment is relevant if it is not contained in an explanatory note on the reverse of the Supplementary Order Paper? That is the very question we are asking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcadaec54c294a3cb2d9c027893b9cf1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That will be a matter for the Chairperson, Mr Power, but thank you for drawing it to my attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u00228ab50b8fc162490780359c094bffee0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ab50b8fc162490780359c094bffee0e\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I thank my colleague Jim Peters for allowing me to speak earlier, as I have to be somewhere else at 12. When the Forest and Bird Protection Society of New Zealand Inc., business associations, local authorities, and the Environment and Conservation Organisations of New Zealand all turn up at a select committee and say the same thing\u2014that the Government has got major parts of this bill seriously wrong\u2014and give the same reasons, then we know there must be something in it. That, in fact, did happen in this case at the Local Government and Environment Committee. There was widespread agreement among the submitters that the draconian ministerial powers, allowing the Minister to instruct councils to put certain things in their plans, and the interference with the powers of the Environment Court to conduct a complete hearing were wrong, unnecessary, and damaging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271514a41192e41e793c3c313f1296f45\u0022\u003EDavid Parker\u003C/span\u003E: And were changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022079620c924f9475abff76481fbe4409a\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: And they were changed. A lot of the changes in the bill as introduced were mindless tinkering with the Resource Management Act. It was as though the Minister had said to officials: \u201CWe\u2019re getting a lot of flak about the Resource Management Act. Go and fix it, will you?\u201D, the officials had asked: \u201CMinister, what exactly do you want us to fix?\u201D, and the Minister had replied: \u201CBasically, don\u2019t totally damage the environment and do away with public rights, but just fix it so that we don\u2019t get all these complaints about it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESo the officials came up with things as mindless as mandatory mediation. Mediation is a process that works if one has goodwill and cooperation on both sides, and achieves absolutely nothing if one does not. How on earth does one make mediation work if somebody is there under duress? So we got rid of that one. The officials came up with mindless tinkering, like taking away the requirement for plans to include objectives because it would make plans shorter by about a paragraph\u2014or maybe up to a page. Yet if plans do not include objectives, how does one measure whether the rules and policies in the plans achieve what they are there for? That had huge consequences right through the bill, and the committee has put mandatory objectives back into plans. There was tinkering with the role of the Environment Court, trying to shorten court processes but thereby making council processes much longer, more laborious, and more difficult for the public to participate in. That was clearly not going to work, and that has been fixed as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI am proud to have chaired the select committee that has substantially rewritten considerable parts of this bill\u2014with, I have to say, a lot of cooperation and good sense around the table. Even though many of us had different views about where the Resource Management Act should be heading, we nevertheless had a high degree of cooperation about using this amendment to make things work as well as we could. We have restored the powers of the Environment Court to hear all the evidence before it and consider that evidence properly. As I said, we have left objectives in plans. We have got rid of the bizarre requirement for regional councils to promote infrastructure. Regional councils are there to manage effects on water, air, and soil\u2014to manage effects on the environment of the region and planning across the region. Giving them the job of promoting power lines and motorways was clearly in conflict with their purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe have got rid of the requirement for regional councils to remediate contaminated sites, which they could have done only by putting the full cost on the landowner, because at present there is still no legal defence for innocent landowners who have taken over a piece of land with no way at all of knowing that it has been contaminated by a previous owner, and the State still takes no responsibility for contamination that it has caused on land that it has managed, or contamination that it has required through the requirement to use certain chemicals with long-lived effects. That matter still needs to be addressed. We still need law on the innocent landowner defence. We still need the State to step up to its responsibilities in terms of contaminated sites. But at least we have prevented this bill from obliging regional councils to clobber landowners at present. We have at least provided for an appeal against the draconian strike-out procedures, whereby a council may decide that evidence is not relevant and refuse to hear it. We know that in many cases councils will use that power with extreme care, but that in some cases the Environment Court has found that councils were far too close to developers and could well have used such a power wrongly against members of the community who wanted to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E After hearing many, many submissions from M\u0101ori that kaitiakitanga lies often not with iwi authorities but with hap\u016B in particular cases, we have provided a role for hap\u016B. We have recognised hap\u016B, in some circumstances, as the people who should be consulted on plans and who should be on the register that councils will hold of the M\u0101ori organisations they should deal with on resource issues in their community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe have constrained the ministerial powers quite considerably. There are now criteria against which ministerial decisions are reviewable, and Ministers will not be able to give just any old instruction to councils and plans. But this bill is still an attempt to centralise decision making; to put the national interest, as perceived by the Government of the day, ahead of the local interest, as perceived by the people; to skew the Resource Management Act towards development rather than towards environmental protection; to provide an easy track for big infrastructure projects like pylons, prisons, motorways, and power stations, which will have preference over the ordinary person\u2019s resource consent; and to make life harder for community groups that are trying, with very little in the way of resources or help, to protect their local environment against big, damaging projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EMuch of that agenda remains in the bill, despite the improvements that the select committee has made, and the Greens, therefore, do not support the bill. In particular, we are concerned about the new process for setting national policy statements. Rather than a board of inquiry and a broad public debate leading to a robust national policy statement with cross-party and cross-society support that will be enduring to guide plans and policy statements, we will have a quick and dirty national policy statement, written by a Government official, with no public inquiry, no hearings, a submission process\u2014which the official may or may not read\u2014and then it will be law. It will be binding on all plans, and councils will gradually have to change their plans to comply. By the time they have done that there will be another Government in power, which will use the same quick and dirty process to overturn the national policy statement. We will get this policy see-saw every 3 years, which is not good for planning or for resource management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe know that national environmental standards are now being drafted, in conjunction with the officials, by the industries that are being regulated by those standards. This bill makes the default position that those standards will be absolute and that councils will have to allow the degradation of their environment down to that minimum standard. So if people have really high-quality water in the rivers in their area, because they have been fortunate in the past and have not had a lot of polluting industry, they will not be able to set a standard to keep those waters to that high quality. They will have to allow them to be degraded down to the national standard, which, of course, will be set down to standards that rivers like the Ng\u0101kawau, which is full of coal tailings, and the \u014Ctara Creek in Auckland can potentially meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe call-in provisions have been changed so that the biggest and most controversial projects called in by the Minister will, unlike all others, not have to go through two hearings. They will have to go through only one. So there will be two hearings for someone\u2019s veranda application but one hearing for the giant motorway or pylon process. At least the select committee insisted that that one hearing must be chaired by an Environment Court judge. That is an improvement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe benefits, which were unanimously agreed, cannot compensate for these serious damages to the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u00221db6b42dda474d23b6516b6e38576725\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221db6b42dda474d23b6516b6e38576725\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E In 2002 New Zealand First claimed that the time was appropriate to thoroughly review the Resource Management Act. The backdrop to that, of course, was the work done in 1998-99 in the bill that is before the House. That review was not done. Our view then, as it is now, was that it was an appropriate time to see whether Part II of the principal Act, \u201CPurpose and Principles\u201D was still valid and whether the 1980s thinking, embodied in the Geoffrey Palmer concepts, was still appropriate. Today we remain firmly of the opinion that sustainable management, with its attendant goals and values, ought to have been reviewed. Sustainable development, now enshrined in the masthead of the New Zealand Environment magazine, needs to be aspired to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThere is growing scientific understanding of the environmental costs and risks associated with the use of our resources. We understand much better the inherent tension in the impact of the ethical and value judgments in the Act, and how they may not, or do not, accord with the property owners\u2019 values and their right to develop and use natural and physical resources. We see, and have seen, the Resource Management Act as an enabling Act. My experience of the Act is that it has largely been so. It is an Act that allows New Zealanders to strive and thereby thrive. But others, unfortunately, see it too often as a limiting and restraining factor, and look to avoid and mitigate rather than to use the express intention of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EWhen we looked at the legislation before us in 2004, we looked at the fact that it does need to have defined and clarified processes, but obstacles and frustrations have become part of those processes, and we need to ensure all affected parties have unhindered access to the consent process. That was the basis on which New Zealand First went into discussions last year. New Zealand First members were on the Local Government and Environment Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe committee did well in its work in picking up a bill from the Associate Minister for the Environment that was ill formed and lacked clear direction in regard to what the Minister intended, and throughout that time, including the hearing of submissions, the committee worked really hard. I pay tribute to the chairperson of the committee, who has just spoken, for her work and her ability to resolve some of the inherent difficulties that the committee saw in the bill as introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003ETherefore, it is with considerable alarm that we see today a 35-page Supplementary Order Paper. I thought that, for the first time, the Government had got it right, unlike the earlier bills we had discussed, such as the Local Government Bill 2002, which passed through the House without anyone outside the House having a chance to consider them. I thought that the month between the committee\u2019s final examination and deliberation ought to have been the time to have come back to the House to see whether the Government had had a change of mind. Four weeks and some days later, on the very last day of the session, we are asked to consider the impact on the bill of the amendments on the Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe very slim explanatory note of the Supplementary Order Paper states that it \u201Crefines the drafting of changes made to the Bill by the select committee.\u201D really begs the question of why the select committee was not part of that process. Why was it not the considered opinion of all parties in this House trying to develop a sounder bill than what was given to us? The explanatory note finishes: \u201CIt also includes drafting to give effect to new policy.\u201D It really is something of a disgrace that a Government in its dying last days is endeavouring to persuade the country and the House that that is reasonable and fair practice. It is not, and New Zealand First protests against the Minister\u2019s intention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe Local Government and Environment Committee examined the bill, after hearing numerous submissions, and made a number of amendments and changes to the bill. A former member of this House, the honourable Rob Storey, made an interesting comment. He told us in Hamilton that he sat for 4 years on the committee that gave birth to this legislation. He conceded that the bill was not perfect and that amendments would be needed, as faults would develop, but in his mind this bill as introduced gave him great cause for concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E Despite the excellent work done by the select committee, New Zealand First is of the same mind today as when the bill first came to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe select committee examined the broad sweep of ministerial powers\u2014some new. It looked at the development of national environmental standards. The restatement of regional and district plans and policy statements were all examined. It gave extensive thought to local authority hearing processes for plans and resource consents, and how these could be speeded up, and, in the course of that, gave more flexibility to pre-hearing meetings, which have always been available under the Act, but have not been used as they could have been. The committee heard the concerns of applicants and councils regarding the requests for further information provision. That is a real issue for them. The provision was redefined and now gives new powers to hearing panels and provides for accredited commissioners. In other words, the bill gives some foretaste of the known wish of district and regional bodies to have a higher level of skill in regard to hearings and, indeed, the whole resource management process. In particular, we heard interesting comments from the Environment Court, and they were taken into account in the considered mind of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is still concerned about ministerial call-in of applications. Under the previous regime the Hon Simon Upton did it once. The insertion of another option as a major feature of this bill, introduces some uncertainty as to the Government\u2019s real intentions in the future\u2014should the people of this country be so unwise as to put them back in office. The new provision was somewhat defined by the committee in regard to a potential board of inquiry. We spent some time ensuring that the skill, knowledge, and expertise needed must be part of a defined rationale from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EWhen I look back at the policy that the New Zealand First caucus looked at last year, seeking a faster, speedier, fairer process, I wonder why I would not support this bill. In developing our policy we were conscious of the immense amount of work done by councils in formulating and formatting the present state of planning. We were conscious of the millions and millions of dollars of ratepayers\u2019 money, and others, spent to put together plans. More important, we were conscious of the number of local people who, throughout the course of that planning period of the past 11 to 12 years, had been a core and essential part of district and regional plans. Alongside that, of course, we have the definitive and abundant, almost too many, judgments and decisions handed down by various courts of the land about many aspects of planning and consents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003ESo against that backdrop, New Zealand First measured its response to this bill. We contend very strongly that, despite the excellent work done by the select committee, the final impact of this bill is just a modern version of the \u201Ccommand and control\u201D approach to environmental decision-making. Territorial and regional authorities will be forced to accept overriding statements from central government, either in national policy statements, or in environmental standards, and not in accordance with the matters that the Labour Party has talked so much about in the past with regard to consultation, but imposed, directed, mandatory statements from on high. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThat is not in keeping with the whole history of this bill and the Act. It is not in keeping with the whole history of participation within the democratic process and an approach to public law that have been the hallmarks. Was there a need for change, and has that change been properly expressed? The answer is, partially. Are the people out there such as farmers, community groups, local authorities, industry, lawyers, and the community who wanted change, satisfied? Yes, but this is not the change sought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First strongly believes that in 2005 this bill should be primarily concerned with promoting the sustainable development of our resources, which is about understanding people\u2019s needs and the capacity of this country to further use, and better use, our natural and physical resources. New Zealand First, as part of an incoming Government, or with ability to be part of a Government\u2019s future programme, will later this year move to further review the Resource Management Act to better effect and fit the common good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022 data-id=\u002254c3fc42aa104ca49698c0cb84a9d4b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254c3fc42aa104ca49698c0cb84a9d4b5\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The member who just resumed his seat made a very profound statement. He described the Resource Management Act, and this amendment, as part of a control and command philosophy. He has identified the exact problem that underpins the Resource Management Act. It is really the icon of the socialist legislative tool kit. This is the biggest instrument for control and command. It is the abuse of the Resource Management Act that has caused so many problems to our country. The ACT party is opposing this amendment. It is almost a bit of d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu\u2014here we go again! We have been fiddling with it since it was enacted by the National Government way back in 1991\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238348fd3dc8148f782c0cb3fd1b1e001\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e5985ecfbf54479affab13a1e454a73\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The National Government implemented the Resource Management Act. But all the philosophical thinking was done by the earlier Labour Government, and that gives it no credit. But the point is this. It is a bit like communism\u2014like those apologists for communism who say: \u201CThere is nothing wrong with communism, it is wonderful, it is just that we have not implemented it properly yet.\u201D It is exactly the same with the Resource Management Act. Is it not time, after how many years\u201415 years\u2014we decided that there is something fundamentally wrong in principle? All the tinkering and amendments in the world are not going to make this little puppy work, because it is fundamentally flawed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe socialists love it. They love it because they can keep more control and more power. It underpins the expanding bureaucracies that we see in local government and all this endless process. It is all about process\u2014endless consultation, rather than outcome for the country\u2019s well-being. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EHaving said that, some aspects of the bill\u2014some of these tinkerings\u2014are improvements, and I would like to refer to some of those. Most of them were done by the Local Government and Environment Committee, not by the bill as introduced by the socialists over there. I would classify in the improvements the dropping of the provision that an appeal to the Environment Court could not be a de novo hearing. Because it became very clear that if one does that, one has to front up at the local council with a lawyer at all those cases because there is not another chance. So one would actually have to further the process, and the costs, in a lot of routine cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003ESomeone made the point that only one in 10 cases actually goes to the Environment Court. But if one said that it could only be a de novo hearing, then one could not afford to take the risk, and all applicants applying for resource consent would actually have to stump up to the council with their lawyers and all the costs associated with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe other point made in evidence to the select committee, and made by the judiciary themselves, was that often in the time before a hearing\u2014and hearing an appeal can take 1 or 2 years, perish the thought\u2014new information and new technologies come to hand, and one would, of course, have precluded the consideration of new technologies if that law, as proposed by the Labour Government when it introduced the bill, had been carried through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe other aspect the ACT party supports is the dropping of the legal phrases. We had this wonderful \u201Curban form\u201D, and \u201Crohe\u201D. They were going to become legal terms, just as in a previous amendment, which the Labour Party promoted, we had \u201Ccultural landscape\u201D. Does anyone know what a cultural landscape might be? But that is what the Labour Government earlier tried to import into the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EWe do support the direct referral to the Environment Court, because that can facilitate the process. There are some projects\u2014usually bigger projects\u2014that are clearly going to go directly to the Environment Court, so why carry out the charade of preliminary council hearings? It is far better for all the parties to prepare thoroughly and go straight to the Environment Court, because one knows that it will be there, in any event, at the end of the day. ACT and National have both defended and promoted that and, of course, Labour tried to sort of make capital mileage out of it, but totally without success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe real problem with this bill, and why the ACT party will be voting against it, is its failure to actually address the fundamental problems that the Resource Management Act has delivered to us. It was meant to be for the sustainable management of natural and physical resources. It was meant to be part of deregulation. It was meant to be a one-stop shop. It was meant to be effects-based, not prescriptive rules. What has really happened is that it got captured during its gestation period and during the intervening 12 years by three interest groups: M\u0101ori, greens, and planners and bureaucrats. I will go through those three. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThere are definitely M\u0101ori issues that need addressing in this country, but what happened was that the gestation of the Resource Management Act coincided with the renaissance in M\u0101ori claims and sovereignty, and the Act has been ruthlessly used as an instrument inappropriately. It is meant to be about the sustainable management of natural and physical resources. It is a totally inappropriate tool with which to try to determine metaphysical and spiritual concepts. Yet we have imported all that language. We have even provided for taniwha in the Resource Management Act, and all sorts of nebulous concepts that weigh it down. That is not to say that those matters do not need to be considered, but they certainly should not be considered in the Resource Management Act. It tries to do too much and it defeats itself in doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe other aspect is that it was captured by the green movement during its gestation and development, and now it lacks balance. It was meant to be for sustainable development, and that language was cut out and it became \u201Csustainable management\u201D, but it was meant to be development-focused legislation. It was meant to be part of deregulating the economy\u2014an enabling Act. But instead it has become bogged down, used as a tool, and, of course, the Department of Conservation is the biggest user of the Resource Management Act to impose its will and strip people of their property rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThe third category that has captured the Act is the planners and bureaucrats. The Act was meant to be a simplification. It was not meant to be rules-based; it was meant to be effects-based. But if we go to the Resource Management Act or to any district plan, we see that the planners hated the thought of anyone taking away their rule book, because that is their power-base. So at every turn, the bureaucrats and the planners have managed to capture the councillors. Some councillors have gone along willingly and turned the Act into a heavy, coded, rule-based law rather than letting it be effects-based law, which was the basic philosophical starting point. It has been totally lost on the way to the forum, and that indeed has meant that the Resource Management Act has become a very destructive instrument in the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EBut perhaps the biggest criticism is the lack of recognition of property rights, and this amendment bill does nothing to address that problem. In a modern, market-based economy that is based on tradable property rights in a global environment, if we do not recognise and provide for property rights in our basic management and allocation of resources, then we have a problem. Property rights are not mentioned in this legislation, and that is because it is the tool in the socialist kit bag and it is used to strip away property rights at every turn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EAnyone can look at a hillside and say: \u201COh, that crop of trees is nice. I\u2019m going to go to the council and we\u2019ll have it designated as a protected natural area, and have it designated in the district plan.\u201D, and a compliant council lobbied by the greens would do it. But that hillside happens to belong to someone. It is someone\u2019s property right. If the public at large is saying that it wants that protected for the public good, then they should stump up and pay compensation. That is the test of whether it is really in the public interest. The test is whether the public is prepared to pay compensation for the taking of a property right. But no, the Resource Management Act at every level restricts property rights, strips away property rights, and takes from people the right to do things on their land that they would otherwise be able to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I say that this bill does not make any amendments. It is just more tinkering. It totally fails to make the amendments that are required. When I say \u201Camendments\u201D I mean we have to gut the Act and go right back to first principles because the Act is based on shaky ground. Its foundations are so unstable. We do not even have a definition for \u201Csustainable\u201D. We have had 15 years of the courts trying to define this wonderful concept that makes us all feel warm and fuzzy inside, but the legal profession and the courts cannot get an agreement and an understanding of what it means. If we cannot understand the basic meaning of the basic premise of the legislation, then what value does it have? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EWhat we really have here is another lost opportunity to address the Resource Management Act and sort out the problems. I fear that the problems confronting the country and affecting the prosperity and wealth of New Zealand citizens will remain in check because the problems with the Act have not been addressed adequately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u00221293337f86694bc78447ba3becf06d44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221293337f86694bc78447ba3becf06d44\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of United Future in the second reading debate of the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill. This bill, as often seems to be the case on bills I have had the pleasure of working on during the last 3 years, is not the same bill that was referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee earlier this year. It has undergone considerable change, and one of the good parts of the parliamentary process is the fact that we are able to listen to submissions and make amendments that respond to input from the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI put on record my thanks to the officials for their hard work and assistance over the gruelling submission process. We had to work to a very tight time frame, and the officials were very helpful through that process and through the consideration and deliberation phase. I also thank the committee\u2019s advisers for their assistance and advice. Over the past year we have had a lot of discussions with the Government, and in particular the Associate Minister for the Environment, and officials from the Ministry for the Environment on how we could work to make the Resource Management Act more effective and more efficient. We concluded that it was the process provisions in the Act that this next reform bill needed to focus on, rather than amendments to Part II in the bill\u2014the major foundation of the principal Act itself. That is still our view\u2014that we do not need to touch those provisions but that we need to work on making the Act work more efficiently and work on the local council processes and on their handling of this Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EIt is true that some of the proposals contained in the original bill were soundly rejected by a broad cross-section of the community that presented submissions to the committee. It is to the Minister\u2019s credit, supported by Cabinet and the officials of the Ministry for the Environment, that these concerns were listened to and responded to. I think that part of the process of amending legislation\u2014the select committee process\u2014is the strength of our parliamentary democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI also want to thank the committee clerks who worked so long and hard to serve us and the people of New Zealand in the work surrounding submissions to the select committee, and the drafting of our reports. Thanks also go to the staff from the Parliamentary Counsel Office who draft and redraft our suggested changes. As I said, some major parts of this bill were rejected by a broad cross-section of the community that presented submissions to the committee, particularly the plans to shift away from de novo hearing processes in the Environment Court, but that does not mean that this bill does not still contain many useful amendments that have been welcomed, supported, and endorsed by many. The suggestion from the Green Party that this bill is just a little bit of tinkering is far short of the mark. The amendments in this bill, once adopted, will result in more workable proposals and more workable implementation of the Resource Management Act across the nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003ETo our surprise, a very interesting by-product came from this process. I once suggested to the committee that it might have even been a clever plan of the Government to have engineered it this way, but I have since discarded that possibility. It was that we had representatives from the business community, the development community and sector, local government, and environmental groups, all coming to the committee to assure us that the operation of the Resource Management Act was not as bad as some were continuing to make out, and that in fact the Environment Court in particular was now operating on a much more efficient and timely basis. They begged us, really, not to make too many radical changes to the Resource Management Act, because they believe that the amendments passed in the past 3 years and the efficiencies gained in the Environment Court were making major changes and major improvements to the way the Act was operating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003ECertainly, much of the credit for that must go to Judge Bollard, and I thank him for the time he gave to the committee and for the insight we gained from his advice and his comments. The planning system, the management file case tracking system, which he has implemented has made huge improvements to the operation of the Environment Court, so much so that many of the submitters said that it had taken only 6 months for them to have their appeals go through the Environment Court, and that is making everything work much better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EBased on all the feedback we received, I think it is a little out of date to be blaming the Resource Management Act for all the problems in the country and to be calling for a major overhaul. In my opinion that is no longer the way forward. We hear the speech from Ken Shirley and the ACT party frequently, but never do we find any real policy from the ACT party on what it would do if it did abolish the Resource Management Act, or on what it would replace it with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI note that National is intending some further changes in its election policies and I think that some of those changes would have United Future\u2019s support. Certainly, three of National\u2019s proposed changes are already accomplished in this bill\u2014namely, enabling resource consent applicants to refuse further information requests from councils and to have their consent accepted or rejected on the information provided. In fact, it was Nick Smith who helped us find the way forward with this, and I thank him for that, so that in practice it did not become a back-door way for applicants to bypass the local authority processes and go direct to the Environment Court\u2014something all the committee wanted to avoid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe bill also expands the capacity of councils to reject vexatious and frivolous objectors. That is another part of National\u2019s policy, though we may find that that new capacity is very seldom used. The new power, although given to the councils, may not be useful on many occasions because the amendments we have had to make in order to safeguard any abuse of that power make it almost potentially more of a risk to ever strike out a submission that is frivolous or vexatious. In many cases it is simply better to let it sit there and be ignored. Then there is the direct referral to the Environment Court, which is something else National is calling for, and something, certainly, that United Future has been urging the Government to consider since our time here in this Parliament. In 2002 we began to call on it to do this and we are very pleased to see that although it is in a slightly different form than we first envisaged, and certainly slightly different from what National is proposing, it is adopted in this legislation and is given to the Minister as one of the very useful tools he or she may have when exercising his or her powers under the call-in provisions of the Resource Management Act. With those proposals addressed from National\u2019s own policies, one can only hope for its support for the bill as we proceed through all stages of the passage of this amendment into law this week, hopefully today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EIn United Future we acknowledge that there are some changes that we have been unable to convince the Government to make as yet. One of those would have been the reintroduction of the ability of the Environment Court to require security for costs, which we always felt should not have been taken from the court, but we are pleased with the progress we have been able to achieve in the last 3 years, which culminates in this bill before the House this week. It is United Future\u2019s intention to ensure that future Governments conduct a biannual review of the Resource Management Act to ensure that ongoing improvements are achieved for all concerned. Legislation such as the Resource Management Act will always be somewhat of a work in progress and will need ongoing monitoring and improvement so that we can make it work as best as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EIn this bill we have deleted the words \u201Cnational interest\u201D mentioned in it. United Future was keen to see that go, because the concept of national interest is not defined and many submitters considered its use ambiguous, and we agreed with them. Also there was a need to make much clearer what the new ministerial powers were, because many submitters thought they would be Godlike powers, and we were pleased to see that corrected. We understand, though, that the Minister needs adequate tools to monitor the performance of local authorities, particularly our regional councils, for they are the first level of Government that are supposed to be our environmental watchdogs. The Minister must be able to give them advice and ask them to do certain things, and that is what has been accomplished by the amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EUnited Future was very happy to see the deletion of \u201Curban form\u201D\u2014something that we lobbied for\u2014and we are happy to have the Minister agree to that because it was introducing new terms that were not easily understood and not necessary. Councils already have sufficient tools to be able to address issues of urban form. In fact, many are beginning to do so. In that regard I, of course, refer to the excellent work done by Smart Growth in the Bay of Plenty. It has not needed this new amendment in order to proceed with its proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EUnited Future will be supporting this second reading and we look forward to further debate through the Committee stage and the passage of the bill later in the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022 data-id=\u00228eede5c5d57949378b35fb5f96371441\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228eede5c5d57949378b35fb5f96371441\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I shall take a very short call to support this bill. I had the opportunity, and privilege, to be on the Local Government and Environment Committee that heard the many, many submissions, and we had the opportunity to travel around the country to listen to many and varied submitters. This bill is a good bill. It shows that this competent Government is providing strong, sound leadership and effective services. This bill amends the Resource Management Act 1991 to improve the quality of decisions and processes, by creating certainty and reducing costs and delays, while not compromising environmental outcomes nor sacrificing public participation. We do not apologise for making the Resource Management Act work better. The Act can and should be made to work better for all New Zealanders. We have identified a series of issues and have come up with timely, sensible, and well-thought-out solutions. We are committed to protecting and preserving the unique aspects of New Zealand\u2019s natural environment. That means striking the right balance between our desire for a clean, healthy environment and our expectations of growth and opportunity. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c325e3f1cb04432db035c32656f8d6a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c325e3f1cb04432db035c32656f8d6a7\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E I was as aggrieved as Nick Smith and the majority of members in this House to see Supplementary Order Paper 389 come forward today in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope without any forewarning from the Government, not just to us as members of Parliament, but of course, to the general public whom we are supposed to represent. In it we see 132 clauses that cannot be considered by this House in any depth or by the public, and we are appalled at that. Of course, it is not the only supplementary order paper brought into this House\u2014rushed in under urgency\u2014this morning. There is also Supplementary Order Paper 388, again in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope. I remind members in this House, and the public who are listening intently to this debate, that the commentary on the bill states\u2014and should members who know what the bill actually does do buckle over in laughter when I read this out, we will forgive them\u2014\u201CThe bill seeks to improve the operation of the Resource Management Act by addressing problems with delays, costs, inconsistencies, uncertainty, and a lack of national leadership regarding the Act\u2019s processes and in decision making. The bill seeks to address these concerns.\u201D A footnote from the National Party is that the bill fails to do that. It fails to address the problems with delays and costs, as it states in the commentary, or with inconsistencies, uncertainty, and the lack of Labour Government leadership regarding the Act\u2019s processes and decision making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI was appalled at the temporary member for Otago\u2019s reference to energy issues throughout this country, when he spoke some 30 minutes ago. The member for Otago, who is a temporary member, must have his head in the sand. I know that he is diverted by the fact that John Carter and the National Party candidate for Otago are out there door-knocking today in Otago, in Queenstown, and around there, collecting votes\u2014he will be diverted by that. The reality is that his statement that energy generation projects\u2014those begun in the last few years\u2014have improved under the Labour Government is absolute rubbish. All of New Zealand knows there has been a raft of energy generation projects and transmission projects put on the back burner, with no decision pending, throughout this country over the last few years. Companies such as Meridian Energy, Genesis Power, and Contact Energy have all put proposals on the table. They have all stumped up with the cash, set out their ideas for where they would generate electricity, and asked to be shown where they need to make changes. But there has been no certainty for them, and there has been no certainty for the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI will give just four examples. Project Aqua in the South Island was a proposal for hydroelectricity generation. There was no certainty on that proposal for the farmers, the public, and the generation company down in the South Island for many, many months because of the elongated and bureaucratic processes of the Resource Management Act. There was the wind generation project in south Auckland, which apparently was going to scare a whole lot of horses. Under the Act and this Government, for months and months there was no certainty for the public, the energy generation company, and the horses in south Auckland in respect of that wind generation project, and, of course, it has not commenced. In the electorate that I represent, there was a proposal to put in a coal-fired power station at Marsden Point. The good people living at Marsden Point and Whangarei Heads and the energy company, Mighty River Power, have had no certainty at all of that project going forward, because of the elongated and uncertain processes under the Act\u2014absolutely no certainty whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EOf course, there is also the issue of the transmission lines into Auckland. For the landowners affected, this Government has kicked the issue for touch by passing it on to the Electricity Commission, which will not make a decision until next June. There is uncertainty for those landowners, for Transpower, for 1 million Aucklanders, who, when they get up in the morning, like to have a hot shower, for the dairy farmers, who, when they get up in the morning, would like to think that the milking machines will work, and for all the businesses in downtown Auckland that want to open up their tills. There is no certainty for them, for landowners in the north Waikato and south Auckland area, and for Transpower. Those are four examples under this Government of electricity industry projects being put on the table with the proposal and the cash, but of there being no certainty for those affected or for the generating companies, either. So it is a joke that the temporary member for Otago says that things have been going smoothly under this Labour Government when it comes to the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe National Party is absolutely delighted that it was able to make some major changes and gut the bill that came into the House originally. Originally the bill was tied up in bureaucratic processes that gave people more and more opportunities to object, irrespective of whether their objections were vexatious or genuine, and we had some effect on pulling back that bureaucracy. But we believe that this bill still just tinkers with the Act. A major overhaul of the Act is required, and this bill will not resolve the substantial concerns over costs, delays, and uncertainty. We need to fix the Act. It needs a major overhaul, not tinkering. National has come out very clearly and said that in the first 3 months of taking over the Government offices, we will table a serious Resource Management Act bill. In 9 months we will pass that bill, having given 6 months\u2019 opportunity to the public to have an effect on the bill that we table. We know that after 13 years, most of the country understands the difficulties in the Act and what is required, and we will introduce those changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EFor example, we will prevent vexatious and frivolous objectors by doing three things. One is that we will not fund them to be vexatious and frivolous. At the moment the environment fund pays objectors to go to court. There is no cost on them, and they can stop projects from going through. The Labour Government funds people to do that. National will get rid of environmental legal aid for vexatious and frivolous objectors. Secondly, we will hold them to account. We will allow the court, where it has been proven that objectors have been frivolous and vexatious, to award costs against them, so that they will carry risk when they object to a proposal for no good reason. They will carry costs if it is proven that they have objected for no good reason. We will also introduce standing, whereby only someone directly affected by a development proposal can be involved in the process. It is easy to work out who is directly affected. It is simply a test-case scenario, whereby someone is affected to a greater degree than any normal citizen. If people are affected in that way, they can involve themselves in the process. But if they are sitting in Invercargill and objecting to something in Kait\u0101ia, then that will not be allowed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThis bill only tinkers. National will introduce a bill that seriously overhauls the Resource Management Act, and I can hear the country clapping from inside this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6b0ca7798b24d77b2bd5e5e2d70e072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6b0ca7798b24d77b2bd5e5e2d70e072\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak in support of the bill, and in particular of Supplementary Order Paper 389. I do so having spent all morning in my office looking after the positive developmental concerns of my Napier constituency, which is throbbing with progress as it strides in development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWhen I came into the House for my 30-second speech in support of this bill I picked up Supplementary Order Paper 389, and I cannot see what National members are complaining about. Perhaps because it is not in cartoon form they have trouble dealing with it. My eyes lit upon this phrase here, which amends the definition clause for contaminated land. On the first page of the Supplementary Order Paper it states, in relation to contaminated land: \u201Cif there is no applicable national environmental standard on contaminants\u201D. Of course there is no applicable national environmental standard on contaminants, because the National Party members are social anarchists. They are the apparatchiks of the commercial world who would have no applicable national environmental standards at all. That is why we need a Labour Government. There are no applicable national environmental standards in the National Party. We need this legislation to have some control over rampant commercialisation and policy directives from overseas, as carried out by this terrible National Opposition, which is fading into obscurity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity during my 30-second speech to welcome the election, because there are no national environmental standards and this bill at least recognises that. I have not heard one member opposite refer to any national environmental standards. So we need a definition clause because of the absence of any national environmental standards. We need Supplementary Order Paper 389. This bill is a very good piece of legislation that I am glad we are passing under urgency, because if it were up to those fellows over there they would still be sleeping until Christmas and they would not know an election had taken place. They lack any national standards, and that is why this bill is such a good bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EBefore I use my 30 seconds, I have to say that the good people of Napier know there are no national standards at all. That is why it will be a Labour seat for many years to come. They know the fraud that has been perpetuated by these people who travel to Washington for policy. No, that is not in the bill\u2014I am talking about applicable national environmental standards, and if we had one from the National members we could sit here and applaud them. But we sit here in desperation at the lack of policy, and at all the bluff and all the social anarchy. This bill brings common sense to the Resource Management Act. I welcome it. I just wish I had 30 minutes to talk on it, not 30 seconds, because this is the most important piece of legislation that could come before this House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6acc5256b4c4da2a4b054fe96bc79bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6acc5256b4c4da2a4b054fe96bc79bd\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National\u2014Epsom):\u003C/span\u003E What a splendid 30 seconds of nonsense. Just in case people have been listening on the radio to those comments, they need to know that the last Labour Party speaker had 10 minutes\u2019 speaking time, and instead chose to rant for 30 seconds. It is not an original comment to make\u2014that this is a Government characterised by flip-flops and foolishness. Nowhere is that more exemplified than in this legislation, the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill. It is small wonder, therefore, that National strongly opposes this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EWe see another execrable trait of this Government in the late tabling today, while this Parliament is in urgency, of Supplementary Order Paper 389. Unsurprisingly, it contains 35 pages of densely written, turgid amendments. What has happened here, of course, is that as a matter of deliberate policy the Government has chosen to circumvent the select committee process. That process exists for the careful evaluation, with public input, of the provisions of a Government bill. What has the Government done? It has gone through a select committee process, sure, but then it has subverted that process by the amendments that come to Parliament today. That is wholly unsatisfactory lawmaking. That is stuff that any reasonable Government should be utterly ashamed of. That is why I say that this is a Government characterised by the flip-flops that are contained in this Supplementary Order Paper and by the flip-flops that have occurred in the select committee process, as dramatic reversal decisions have been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI just remind members that the history of town planning legislation in New Zealand is quite old. We had the first Town and Country Planning Act in 1926, we had another statute in 1953, another statute in 1977, and then of course the Resource Management Act came in 1991. If one looks at that legislation in its various historic forms, it is to be seen that it has become steadily more and more complex. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EBut that is only one aspect of the dynamic of complexity because, sitting in behind the Resource Management Act and the subordinate legislation that comprises regulations and rules, is a raft of other materials. I am referring to district scheme and district plan documents. I will take the case of the Auckland City Council as an example. There are literally volumes and volumes of material that seek to exemplify and explain the provisions of the Resource Management Act as they relate to the city of Auckland. It is an absolute disgrace that this legislation, passed in 1991 with an obligation to provide operative district plans, has seen an outcome where in many parts of the districts in New Zealand that work has not been completed. So local authorities, and those who come to local authorities to seek planning consents, are forced to grapple with a plan that is in the process of being made operative and the need to give effect to the current operative plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ENational is committed to the substantial reform of the Resource Management Act because we believe that such reforms are critical to addressing New Zealand\u2019s roading and electricity infrastructure crisis. They are also important in attracting investment in industries like forestry and reducing compliance costs for farms, small business, and homeowners. Surely the objective must be to reduce the costs, the delays, and the uncertainties of the Act, while maintaining high environmental standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThat is not to say we do not support the underpinning principles of the Act. We do. We support the commitment to sustainability. We support an integrated approach to environment management. We support a focus on environmental effects. Our major concern is that the Act has become too complex and cumbersome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ELet me give just one illustration. There are 15,000 pages of district and regional plans. There are 50,000 consents required each year, and a 7-year average time is required for a council to process a plan change. Just by way of comparison, in earlier legislation there were simple identified circumstances where consent was required. There were predominant uses, conditional uses, and uses neither predominant nor conditional that required a specified departure planning consent. That has now been made incredibly much more complicated by new classes of activity and by subtle wording of different tests for each class of activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ESo what we want to do is to rebalance several key aspects of the Act. The Act is too idealistic about public consultation. People talk about consultation fatigue: the circumstance where so great is the consultation obligation that both the parties and those being consulted are simply worn out by a process that is itself incredibly time enduring and incredibly costly. We have the situation\u2014and Mr Heatley has spoken about this\u2014that, because of the wide-ranging ability to object, minority interests can impose huge costs or delays on communities. Dr Nick Smith, who knows a substantial amount about this legislation, will cite the illustration of how these days it takes longer to get the necessary planning consent to build the road, than to actually build the road itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17b97f5bc4e4a4f90ce593b4c60f489\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222053296363c34bec9f6da8422f68c7a0\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: I hear Mr Benson-Pope, whose ignorance of town planning legislation is manifest. He is a Minister who struggles with his portfolio in even its most simple aspects, and he is groaning that what I am saying is incorrect. He is a man who should focus, for the short period of time that remains in this Parliament, on his portfolio responsibilities. He is a man who should seek to gain some greater insight as to why this legislation is not working. He should heed the public concern, which is manifestly out there in connection with delays, in connection with costs, and in connection with the unsatisfactory nature of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI have said that the Act is too idealistic about public consultation. A second point is that it gives insufficient weighting to the rights of property owners about how their land is used. A simple illustration of this is that some councils have zones that impact on rural areas where substantial tracts of forest in private ownership are preserved in effect in a park-like setting for the benefit of the public at large. It should be no part of the plan that it is for private landowners to retain land effectively as a public reserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThirdly, the Act is too devolved. It results in councils in every part of the country having to reinvent the wheel. Let me give an illustration of that. In the noise area, with the number of local authorities in New Zealand, there are separate noise standards for each local authority district. So as we traverse the country, seeking to establish a particular activity, we need to look at the specific noise standards in each particular district. Those standards are quite arbitrary, and they should be constant. Another illustration is in the area of air quality controls, where there is huge variation from regional council to regional council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EMr Heatley has said what our plan is, which is to reform the Resource Management Act in two phases. The first phase involves process issues, which have been extensively debated. As Mr Heatley has said, the bill will be introduced within 3 months of the election and passed into law within 9 months. That drafting work is well advanced. The second phase of the reform will deal with the more complex issues of resource allocation and infrastructure provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00229b03b57564694c718afc788845606eec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b03b57564694c718afc788845606eec\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support this Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill. This is a tricky area for Parliament to deal with in terms of the balance we have to strike between legitimate development and both the preservation of the conservation estate of New Zealand and the resources we have to manage and look after. I think that wherever that balance is struck there is always debate around its edges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EBut when we start talking about the Resource Management Act, National goes into overdrive with its rhetoric. We have heard from Nick Smith that the Resource Management Act is stifling growth in New Zealand. That is, of course, despite the fact that New Zealand has a higher average growth rate than any other country in the OECD. But National members put all that to one side; facts can be a real nuisance in that regard to National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWe have to make sure we get proper legislation that protects people\u2019s rights to appeal, and that protects the rights of local authorities to put in place responsible plans for managing their areas\u2019 environmental assets, but that also allows people to get their applications considered quickly and fairly and, if they are approved on the basis of the standards agreed to, allows that work to start. I think that what we have come to Parliament with today, in the second reading of this bill, is the latest attempt to get that balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EBut I say to the House that if we were to give in and agree to every concession National wanted, in its pursuit to strip this country of environmental standards, National would then argue that the Resource Management Act was too tight\u2014even if we moved to that position. So wherever we strike the balance, there is argument around it; that is the nature, I think, of resource planning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWe have made enormous improvements in the Environment Court\u2014in halving the time of cases there\u2014and we have also been able to put in place a number of key changes, so that local governments have the tools to be fair and consistent arbiters of consent applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI think David Benson-Pope has done a great job of listening to the people who have to make this legislation work\u2014that is, our local government authorities across the country. Of course, when there are 74 of those authorities there is some variance in the way the legislation is judged, and that is why training is so important. But let us not throw the baby out with the bath water in our rush to have the toughest rhetoric on the Resource Management Act. It will always be a difficult area in which to come up with the right balance, but I think this bill does that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI heard Dr Worth mention the fact that National has a timeline for a reform of the Resource Management Act. I give that about as much credibility as the much-vaunted tax cuts we have been waiting for. We were told, were we not, several weeks ago that tax cuts were due to be announced? Then we were told we were playing games with the election date, and as soon as that was out we would know the date of the tax cuts. Now we find out that the New Zealand public has to wait until almost 3 or 4 weeks before the election for National to put on record what its members say is so important. So I have no faith in what Dr Worth was saying about a Resource Management Act process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to reiterate what my colleague the Hon David Benson-Pope had to say\u2014that although we have heard lots from National speakers about how outrageous the Resource Management Act is, with all its appeal rights slowing down development, what is the first piece of legislation National members all reach for whenever there is a development or idea they do not like? The Resource Management Act! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c4c390fadf64b449f5f0375eae181ec\u0022\u003EHon Paul Swain\u003C/span\u003E: And prisons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a89557fc036348ec920065f561055e11\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Swain, the Minister of Corrections, mentions prisons. I am glad he has done that, because I notice that Paul Hutchison, the member for Waikato, opposed the Spring Hill Corrections Facility. I notice that \u201Cbrains trust\u201D Phil Heatley railed against the Northland Regional Corrections Facility up in Whangarei. Bill English, the former\u2014soon to be next\u2014leader of the National Party, did not like a prison at Milton and wanted to use the Resource Management Act to oppose that, and the theatrical member for Bay of Plenty, Tony Ryall, in doing one of his law and order routines, said he wanted six to 10 more prisons everywhere, with parole, but as soon as one was going to be in his backyard he reached for the Resource Management Act to try to stop it. There are words for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226daf2717500d4f0ea7669fe6c1ad529f\u0022\u003EHon Paul Swain\u003C/span\u003E: What about the member for Nelson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022403561b93699473d8c361529117775a6\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: We could not expect a consistent thing to come from Nick Smith. He likes to beat his chest and say how tough on crime he is, but as soon as the authorities sniffed around Nelson for a prison site, he rushed out for the appeal processes of the Resource Management Act, he rushed out to embrace tikanga M\u0101ori, and he rushed out to make sure there were strong provisions in the Act in order to give his local people in Nelson the appeal rights he felt they needed. So it really is all a bit much! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EAnd I have not even had time to mention Judith Collins, who sort of runs the National Party independently from the second row and operates in splendid isolation, much to the chagrin of all her colleagues, as she sails forth. She wants to use the Resource Management Act and all its rights on the situation of the Transpower pylons. Apparently, it is quite good to have the Resource Management Act processes for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWhen National members are talking rhetoric they say they must shut down all that M\u0101ori \u201Cnonsense\u201D and all those appeal rights, and that the Resource Management Act is a terrible, terrible thing, until something turns up that happens to be a campaign area of theirs\u2014that is, prisons\u2014and then they must have a tougher Resource Management Act. National is all at sea, it is not ready for this general election, and I think that that is the view the New Zealand electorate will take in 6 weeks and 3 days\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f8e994819ae44ff2b19c50d985d01029\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments recommended by the Local Government and Environment Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002278dff9fde09c4fb4b000fce0345e04b5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022daa0b73da0684f1bb2603ef48d804428\u0022\u003EInstruction to Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f42724243b94a89924890757d1670c0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That it be an instruction to the Committee of the whole House on the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill that it take the bill part by part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002269bf435c143949c3988420588c36f83c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022157535ab857c4b60abaf06377159e827\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022357f977514d8448299eda5ef2e8fac95\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Resource Management Act 1991\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022177765c19a314f2ca709546db7be0352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022177765c19a314f2ca709546db7be0352\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E In a typical act of arrogance from this rotting, decaying Government, 45 pages of amendments have been tabled today and are intended to be passed into law today by a Labour Government that lectures us on public consultation under the Resource Management Act. I have heard some loopy suggestions from the Minister in the chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e715d40b48d44eb8b85dd53971540d4b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I want to remind Parliament about the fiasco that is taking place this afternoon. The Government says that when it comes to resource management issues we have to consult to death. If a developer or a council wants to do something in their community, the Ministry for the Environment tells us that, on average, it will take over 4 years to make a change in the rule. But today in Parliament, we will pass 38 pages of law and 134 clauses that were tabled this morning. What sort of double standard do we have when the Labour Government says that if a little council wants to make a teeny-weeny change in the rule, it has to consult to death, but if this Minister wants to, he can change the law today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd5013724e134103a368ef5604316a8f\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Like the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7951d406f82403dbf965874eabab778\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: This is lawmaking even faster than a prime ministerial motorcade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022919350c464484f159d8a7c58bf4a0bf2\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Or Don Brash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d96ca74a2a764e34994c72d3eeef2216\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Can the perky member on the Government benches explain to me why it is that the Government insists on an extensive consultation process, on public participation, etc, except when it comes through the Government? I ask the outgoing member for Otaki what public consultation there has been on the changes to the Resource Management Act in this 38-page Supplementary Order Paper. The silence is deafening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe problem with this Government, and the reason it will be rejected by the electors of New Zealand, is that it has an approach of \u201CDo as we say, not as we do.\u201D The Government tells everybody else that they have to consult, and that they have to involve public participation. [Interruption] Now Rick Barker is poking in. Could he explain to me how it is fair to be passing laws that say that one has to consult extensively and involve the public, but the Government can make 134 changes that will be introduced and passed into law today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI have never known such double standards. They are the same sorts of double standards that we get from the Minister in the chair, Mr David Benson-Pope, when he launches a programme to ensure there is no bullying in schools, and then it is revealed that he has stuffed tennis balls into kids\u2019 mouths. The number of examples by members opposite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125bc72ac4eb45d69d460ed603647975\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please be seated. That comment from the member is not acceptable. The member will please withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f86cb5372d44b68153025b359b6376\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: What comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215cc5eb19a224ca5a5a320dd38e68614\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows the comment he made about the Minister, David Benson-Pope. He will withdraw it, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c4a4e4a6c85462ea52c4d3e2ee84e0f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. The Minister in the chair is on the public record as having stuffed tennis balls into his pupils\u2019 mouths, while simultaneously launching a campaign to stop bullying in schools. Now that is as consistent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224423b5062b61413191adb5f1a406bb63\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I take a point of order to assist the Committee. We will descend very rapidly into the very silly state that the member himself has objected to, and has been very emotional about in this Parliament, when personal attacks are made. He is now pursuing things that are not true, and is misrepresenting what the Minister has said. I caution him that he is going too far. We should debate the bill\u2014we are happy to do that\u2014but this member, in particular, is the person who gets so upset when personal references are made. He is now leading the charge. I just offer that as a way forward. Let us debate the resource management legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6303680dde40d88f64397b22112d88\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to stop telling the truth about them if they stop telling lies about us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f862cab717cc4e4c982d47674a495af8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please be seated. These matters have come up several times before, and I would caution members about behaviour and personal reflections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa282a8f469c496e86a55dfe78e7bed8\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I would just like an explanation from a Government member, as to why the Government put out three press releases in the last week talking about the importance of public consultation and participation, but then rolled up this morning with 38 pages of changes to the Resource Management Act, about which there has been absolutely no public consultation or participation, at all. It is a double standard, and I say again that that sort of arrogance\u2014to say one thing and do the opposite\u2014is why this Government will be rejected by the electors of New Zealand in a few weeks\u2019 time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to come to some of the lunatic provisions in this bill. Ninety percent - plus of consents are dealt with on a non-notified basis. Somehow the Government thinks that the problem will be solved by making those notification decisions appealable to the Environment Court. If there is any way in which one wanted to add bureaucracy, costs, delays, and uncertainty to the Resource Management Act, it is by introducing that provision about which we unanimously heard, in submission after submission, that it was unwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI would also like an explanation from the Minister in this respect. When this bill was introduced, David Benson-Pope jumped up and said that the answer was to remove de novo hearings in the Environment Court. In fact, in February I put out a statement challenging Mr David Benson-Pope about his claims that he would somehow resolve those problems by taking away de novo hearings in the Environment Court. In the Local Government and Environment Committee even the Environment Court Chief Judge said that the Minister had lost the plot, that this was not going to work, and that this was going to make things worse, not better. So I have to challenge the Minister in the chair by asking him what has gone wrong. His own press release said that the most significant change in the bill was the removal of de novo hearings in the Environment Court. Why has it gone? Why has he put up the white flag? The truth is that the Minister has made another error and has got it wrong again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to draw the Committee\u2019s attention to an amendment tabled in my name that would insert a new clause 5AB. This affects 50,000 New Zealanders who are enthusiasts for the Western Springs Speedway in Auckland. My amendment is a very sensible proposition. It states that when a council\u2014and I have heard so much from Labour members about how they want to empower councils\u2014proposes a rule change, it will be able to determine whether it shall take effect at that time, as compared with existing provisions of the district plan. It sounds like quite a complex mechanism. It is about trusting councils. It means that the Western Springs Speedway will not close. Any member who votes against my amendment is effectively sounding a death knell for that speedway. This speedway has operated for 75 years. There is a petition of 50,000-plus New Zealanders who want to see that speedway survive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe Auckland City Council, which interestingly is dominated by the political left, unanimously wants this amendment so that it can fix the problem of the speedway. But this is not just an amendment to fix the problem with that speedway. There are similar problems up and down New Zealand whereby councils know they have provisions in their district plan that are not working for communities and they want to make changes, but it will take them years to do so. They do not have the option of banging the House into urgency, bringing in a Supplementary Order Paper, and passing it all on the same day. [Interruption] I say to the Minister that they do not have that opportunity. This amendment enables them to fix those problems. It is about trusting councils, and it is about a very sensible change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI have another amendment in my name. A very significant issue for New Zealand is the security of electricity supply, and what happens with the waters of the Waitaki River. We know that the process that was set up by Marian Hobbs is an absolute botch. The Government\u2019s own submission states that it will cost New Zealand 300 megawatts of electricity generating capacity. My amendment says what every single mayor in the South Island has sought\u2014that there be a further round of consultation on the regional water plan for the Waitaki River. Every single mayor in the South Island has called for that amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E And I say that a further round of consultation would be required\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271534d7db91e438187403118bad0f98f\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: And they have all changed their minds since.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ab2dcf71e4b417ea884a96638f687b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they have not, actually. Marian Hobbs just keeps stuffing it up. That is why she got sacked; she is no longer in charge of the Resource Management Act. The job has been given to Mr Benson-Pope. The draft plan for the Waitaki River is a disaster for New Zealand. It will cost Jim Sutton his seat; he is a goner. It will probably cost David Parker his seat, too. But what is really important is that it will create a crisis in New Zealand\u2019s electricity supply. We need to do that job properly, and I seek the support of every member of this Parliament who is concerned about maintaining security of electricity supply and sensible use of that magnificent resource, the Waitaki River. I plead with them to support this amendment please, so that we can fix the botch-up that Marian Hobbs has made\u2014that her own Government says it has made\u2014with the submission the Government made to the Waitaki Catchment Board. That further round of consultation is absolutely vital to getting it right, and I seek the Committee\u2019s support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cac0b87bb692498fab06448b7ae4b1d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cac0b87bb692498fab06448b7ae4b1d7\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want again, on behalf of New Zealand First, to register our dismay at the fact that the Minister for the Environment has been so cavalier in the treatment of Parliament that this morning was the first time we had the opportunity to see the considerable number of matters raised on Supplementary Order Paper 389. It reminds me of a memoir of the last days of the Attlee Labour Government that tells of a newspaper correspondent who went to see Mr Herbert Morrison and found a half-smoked, soggy cigar\u2014the emblem of a dying ministry. The rush and haste evident in that Supplementary Order Paper indicate something of the same sort of feeling across there on the other side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EI particularly want to ask the Minister in the chair why, at this late stage, there are so many references to the coastal marine area. Why was the coastal marine area not subject to the consideration of the Local Government and Environment Committee, or is there some truth to the rumour that this Government has a desire to embark upon mining expeditions up and down the west coast, all the way from Kaipara down into the Taranaki Bight? Is that the reason why there suddenly appears for the first time and for no sound reason, at this late stage, reference to the coastal marine area, to the Minister of Conservation, and to their place in the whole matter of resource consents and planning? One questions why the committee was not subject to the same thinking that seems to be indicated there. I would be very pleased to hear the Minister\u2019s answer as to why there is that late reference, in more than one provision, to the coastal marine area. It certainly would not have anything to do with the foreshore and seabed legislation; if it did, we would want to know exactly what that was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003ESecondly, I want to make very brief mention of the fact that in my earlier, second reading speech on behalf of New Zealand First, I did not mention a key factor\u2014that is, the Treaty of Waitangi clause. Unlike other parties in this Parliament, New Zealand First members have high regard for, on matters of national importance, M\u0101ori traditions and culture being exactly and expressly spelt out. But we believe that the Treaty of Waitangi provision, which was put there in 1991 by National, which was not the subject of the review by the group who looked at this matter in 1998 and 1999, and which now seems to be the subject of some concern, does not belong. Because of that, I want to register now our concern\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e2a48da59e49979859d82e8fcc4854\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what the member says on marae.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022613ccc1fcb7c49399adee05c64d8cec7\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon; we say here exactly what we say everywhere else. That is unlike others, I tell Mr Heatley, who have a background of including Treaty of Waitangi principles in over 25 Acts passed by the National Party in its time in Government, and who now wish to completely repudiate in an instant\u2014in a flash; before lunchtime\u2014all of those sections. New Zealand First is a party that knows what M\u0101ori mean to this country, that knows their place in the culture and history of New Zealand, and that is prepared to give every ability for that to be expressed in the right and proper manner in the Act. But I want us to go through those provisions in Part 1 that we believe elevate, particularly with regard to co-management, a concept that this party has no truck with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0fdaa086e284488997588ac818173ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0fdaa086e284488997588ac818173ad\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E People always know when there is a socialist administration in the last throes of its existence in this Parliament. They can always tell. Here we are in the eleventh hour on the last day of Parliament, locked in a time warp, still in Tuesday, with a piece of legislation that is so out of touch with what needs to happen today it is unbelievable. The Minister, the Hon David Benson-Pope, who is only 5 minutes in the job, has now come up with a Supplementary Order Paper of some 136 pages, which was delivered to people this morning to have a look at\u2014a Minister who has spent his whole political career, both before he came into Parliament and since he has been in Parliament, telling people how important it is to have a robust consultation process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI just ask the question: how could that happen? Listening before to the co-leader of the Green Party\u2014the potential future coalition partner of any future Labour Government\u2014I heard it all revealed. That member chaired the Local Government and Environment Committee in the first instance, after the 1999 election, and the red pen was put through all the recommended changes to the legislation that had been put forward after a thorough consultation process. That was Simon Upton\u2019s bill, and a red pen was put through all those recommended changes. Now, here we are today with a bill, and with a Supplementary Order Paper that is almost as big as the bill itself, being recommended to make some minor amendments along the lines that Simon Upton recommended at that time. It is ad hoc; it is the wrong way to go about it; and it certainly will not work. It will not fix the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that we all know that this has come about as a result of the circus that took place with Project Aqua in the South Island. We all know that the \u201Cmuesli man\u201D, the new Mayor of Auckland, has said to his favourite political party that what it is proposing will not work, that it will add a whole layer of cost to the Resource Management Act, and that it will not achieve what it is designed to achieve. We all know that power prices have gone up by 50 percent under this administration, and that they are continuing to rise. We all know there is a crisis in the electricity industry because new generation capacity cannot proceed. We all know that\u2014all of New Zealand knows that. We know that there is a huge crisis in roading right across New Zealand. We know that the small-business committee that did an investigation under the leadership of Paul Swain came back and recommended to this Government that the single biggest issue concerning small business and the development of New Zealand is the Resource Management Act. We know that, but here we are, in the death throes of this Government, with a piece of legislation that will not address those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220246297fc9c94e81a206e70d9d87e86e\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: It tinkers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a8be901fc54012b92633b4def7ef5f\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It tinkers with the edge of the issues, but it will not address them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EWe ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon David Benson-Pope, in his last gasp of air in this Parliament, why he cannot just listen to his own people\u2014his own constituents, his own supporters\u2014on the left of local government around New Zealand and do what they ask him to do. It is interesting to note, when we look back, that the member for Auckland Central\u2014the \u201Cmember for Auckland Affairs\u201D, I believe they call her\u2014Judith Tizard, said in one of the earlier debates on this legislation that the recommendations put forward by Simon Upton in 1999 were evil\u2014evil and dangerous. She said that a direct referral to the Environment Court was an evil, dangerous thing to do. Today, in this debate with exactly that proposal before us, we hear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022138a6759bea44d7fae27f34f29e234a4\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not. Tell the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ff55749111b42fdab727c4e9ab91fe7\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not exactly the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fc3bd4fac264fbca0bc47eea7acaede\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will be interested to hear the Minister take a call, or either of the Ministers\u2014the one who was there for a start and who got the sack, or the one who is in the chair\u2014to tell us why I am wrong. That is exactly what we are doing here today. Those Ministers need to know that it is our roads in this country that need engineering, not our people. So the Ministers should front up and tell those people who have supported them why they will not pass legislation in Parliament today that would save the Western Springs speedway\u2014why they cannot do that. Why are they so against that kind of thing, particularly when their own people and all of local government are telling them that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EIt has been stated many times that this Government has been supportive of local government. Well, this is where the rubber meets the road, right here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1d870060a324f08b48952fdb1bd6f2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1d870060a324f08b48952fdb1bd6f2c\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E We had a ruling from Assistant Speaker Robertson this morning that it is perfectly within the Standing Orders to change policy in a Supplementary Order Paper that is introduced on the day a bill is getting passed into law, with no explanation of what the new policy is that we are being required to vote on. That is as may be\u2014it is within the Standing Orders\u2014but it is wrong in principle, and it shows contempt for the role of the House in scrutinising legislation. I was so concerned when I saw that statement in the Supplementary Order Paper about changes in policy that I went to the Minister, David Benson-Pope, and asked for an explanation of what the changes in policy are. The Minister was good enough to send over an official to run through it with me. Given that the Greens are not supporting the bill, I am sure the Minister would have done the same for other MPs who asked in advance for that advice. But given that that has not happened, I think it would be appropriate for the Minister to take a call at some stage to go through the new policies introduced in the Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI am not surprised that there is a 35-page Supplementary Order Paper from the Minister. The Local Government and Environment Committee made a lot of changes to the bill. We were working through policy in some depth quite late in the process, to the point where we were presented on the day of deliberation with considerable changes to the drafting of the bill. Right at the very last minute, officials were still working out\u2014and colleagues in the Chamber who were there will remember\u2014how to give effect to the things the committee had done. I can remember saying as we went into deliberations that I foresaw a substantial Supplementary Order Paper, because the officials could not possibly have all the details right if they were changing the drafting from one day to the next. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EIn particular, with reference to the option the Minister has of referring a called-in project to the Environment Court, there was still no realisation at that stage, on the second to last day, that the Environment Court is not used to dealing with projects from scratch. It is used to dealing with appeals, and we cannot simply treat a case as an appeal at the Environment Court if there is no decision to appeal against. So considerable work has gone into that Supplementary Order Paper, and I look forward to hearing from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThere are three changes of policy in this Supplementary Order Paper that directly overturn very considered decisions made by the select committee. Those were decisions about which Government members acquiesced\u2014presumably, at the time, with the agreement of their Minister. I find it of considerable concern that those decisions are being changed at this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI mentioned when I spoke on the second reading that representations from M\u0101ori were unanimous that iwi authorities are not always the appropriate people to be consulted on plans, and that hap\u016B are often the appropriate kaitiaki. In the committee\u2019s amendments to the bill we provided for hap\u016B, in cases where it was appropriate, to be on the council register and to be consulted over plans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWell, one of the things this Supplementary Order Paper does is to take out any consultation with hap\u016B over plans. Hap\u016B will stay on the register, but that will have no practical effect. The form is given, but the substance has been taken away. Of course, councils can still consult hap\u016B if they wish\u2014that is the case now; no change has happened there. But they are not required to, and the fact that that provision has been taken out at this stage, when it was in the bill as reported back, may well be taken by some as evidence that the bill does not intend councils to consult hap\u016B. I find that a real concern, and I think M\u0101ori around the country will find it a real concern. The bill has clarified that there is no mandatory consultation with M\u0101ori, iwi authorities, or anybody else at the consent stage. That is probably appropriate, given that the thing we have to get right is the plan, but if there is to be no consultation with hap\u016B at the plan stage either, then where is the treaty relationship in all of that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe second thing that has been changed from the select committee\u2019s considered view is that power stations have been reinserted in the definition of \u201Cinfrastructure\u201D. Infrastructure has always been seen, in the words of a former Minister of Energy, as consisting of \u201Clong stringy things\u201D\u2014that is, networks\u2014and in order for a network to function, one has to own land. Infrastructure has always been taken to mean developments that require a network that connects land over considerable distances. Power stations do not do that, and in this Supplementary Order Paper a higher status is given to power stations in terms of the planning process than the committee felt they deserved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe third change that overturned a decision of the select committee is that the value of existing investments must now be regarded when considering the re-consenting of a consent that has expired. The committee always agreed that when looking at contesting applications for, let us say, a water right, the fact that the incumbent had invested quite a lot in the infrastructure to use that water ought to be taken strongly into account when deciding whether the incumbent should get the re-consent or somebody else should get the water. But when there is no contest like that\u2014when the contest is between whether the natural environment needs that water back for some other value or whether the incumbent should be allowed to continue to take it\u2014this amendment now jigs the situation very strongly in favour of the incumbent and continued extraction and taking from the environment, rather than the restoration of environmental quality. That was something the committee decided not to do, but that the Minister has reinstated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EOther changes in the Supplementary Order Paper are good. I commend the clarification on the joint-management agreements, and I commend the clarification on the aquaculture law reform. The technical amendments will, I hope, make the bill more workable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EBut, overall, the Greens will not be voting for this Supplementary Order Paper. We believe that the considered views of the select committee, which the Labour members agreed to, should be allowed to stand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u00221d73da475c254fa9a04bce9b53db21ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d73da475c254fa9a04bce9b53db21ed\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I always find it very interesting when people get up and complain about lack of consultation, then do not withdraw and think about where a Supplementary Order Paper comes from. A Supplementary Order Paper about this subject normally arises because, as a bill has gone to the select committee, a number of people\u2014some of them Environment Court judges, some of them from the Resource Management Law Association, and some of them from a variety of industries\u2014have come knocking on the door and said that they have listened to the submissions, and that they have something they would like to say, or that they have some way through that might actually help. That is in addition to the normal process that occurs when we are presented with a problem and we work our way through. That is what a Supplementary Order Paper is. It is an indication that there has been listening out there, involvement out there, and a lot of talking with Local Government New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI want to show two examples. One relates to the question of courts hearing de novo. We listened to what the courts had to say about that, and included in the Supplementary Order Paper the addition, which the courts and Local Government New Zealand agree with, that the court has to have regard to the council decision. We are, again, trying to prevent people from going on and on and introducing new material forever. It is a way of moving forward. The part I really want to take apart is this question about direct referral. I find that delicious. Yes, we did agree, back in 2000, not to go ahead with direct referral, which is a friend of all developers, who would say: \u201CI do not want to go through local government; I as a developer elect to go straight to the Environment Court. I can exclude all the small people who might have a prison built beside me, and go straight to the Environment Court.\u201D We took that out and said that we believe in democracy\u2014we believe in people having their chance up before local government. As a result of a lot of thinking and what we learnt in Waitaki\u2014that sometimes things are really difficult when multiple councils are involved and when a council does not actually have a water plan\u2014we put up a provision whereby at the moment the Minister can decide to intervene and can intervene in about five different ways. Sometimes it is just a matter of saying that three councils will join together to have a hearing. Two of the options for intervention involve call-in. Call-in occurs when the Minister\u2014not the local developer\u2014can say that the matter will go directly to the Environment Court, or when the Minister does as we have done in Waitaki and appoints a particular panel to conduct a hearing. That is not the same as what the National Party proposed. Its proposal was for developers, only\u2014not Ministers\u2014to say: \u201CLet\u2019s avoid local Government altogether.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b768aa0eaf24485cb88646b9c40847c5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: If you buy M\u0101ori off you will get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281cdeba16f1241369de822f703134107\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: I really object to that particular comment about my probity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022946aac7f2d4f4c90ac40ad0259ce4acc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b631381769e04212b2e725c910fabc57\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f52b34e6993547fbbbb4bdb16850c892\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I am dealing with the matter. The member knows that it is out of order to make that accusation. The member will withdraw that remark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224176f9bb783643bab1f134eb982fd8bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister was asserting that any old developer would be able to get direct referral under National\u2019s policy. Under Labour\u2019s policy, direct referral is determined by the Minister. I quite properly intervened with the remark that the Minister might get a cheque and be influenced. There was nothing wrong or improper about that comment. It is a fact arising from what is in Labour\u2019s bill. That is the difference between Labour\u2019s policy and National\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e99aa2b2bb047e4b77b6ab3c26b7843\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows very well that the comment was not in order. I ask the member to withdraw the remark. He cannot insinuate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256c3a3d64ba64d1c98f75d6d9f8673dc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. This morning we saw a Supplementary Order Paper introducing 38 pages of new law\u2014134 clauses. The Green Party member in her contribution suggested that it would be fair to Parliament if one of the Ministers gave some explanation, because the explanatory note of the Supplementary Order Paper only goes as far as saying that it includes drafting to give effect to new policy. I have been waiting for the Government to tell us what the new policy is. It seems to me quite extraordinary that on the last day of Parliament 38 pages of law are being slammed through without anybody standing up and explaining what it is. I think it would be proper for you to direct the Minister, Marian Hobbs, to give us some explanation as to the policy changes that are proposed in this 38-page Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e88ae00d5169471a8c5eae600b4a8615\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. It is a matter for debate. If the member is raising a point of order about the relevance of the amendments, I tell him that that has certainly been looked at. It has been considered, and certainly the amendments are relevant to the bill. I am happy to give the member a longer explanation if that is what he wants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022425978f8a1d7481986b2ce33d920e391\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I would like it from the Minister, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b96d547cd2c41feb08c38940109df21\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The point I am making is that, as far as the Chairperson is concerned, the Supplementary Order Paper is relevant to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ddd5ad0e7ae4fee8f023335a9ec769c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the Supplementary Order Paper is relevant, but its explanatory note states that it makes policy changes. Nowhere in the main bill is there any reference to, for instance, marine farming. That is not included in the bill. The Supplementary Order Paper makes quite extensive changes in that area, and we have heard no explanation from any member of the Government as to what is intended by this lawmaking\u2014which is faster than a prime ministerial motorcade. We have had no explanation of the reasons for the neck-breaking speed of this law change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022806797682bb24b16ad20f39655b457fd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e87a7561cba42819223747eb0f97f5a\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to clarify this again. I heard an assertion from the opposite side of the Chamber that we had done a U-turn and advised that there would be direct referral to the Environment Court. That is not so, and I want to make that very clear. It is not so. There is a step in between, and that is ministerial intervention, which can take about five different forms, two of which involve call-in. Something else that was asserted by the member\u2014[Interruption] I am responding to comments the Opposition has made\u2014concerned an amendment to extend the submission time in the Waitaki plan hearing. I am quite happy to advise the member that Meridian Energy Ltd, and all those people who have submitted\u2014I think Meridian finished its submissions today or yesterday\u2014have finished making their submissions, and the process is about to be wound up well within the time that was set. The panel will report in September, as it stated. Why did we ask for this plan to be reported by that time? The reason is that I made a commitment to the Minister of Energy that this public consultation about finding a way forward for the people of Otago and Canterbury in relation to the use of the water in that river would in no way delay any decisions out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209cb024ef29847feb3c7a1459378684d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a botch-up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb2e72c822f4deda01a9de198ebcf22\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not a botch-up. It is a way forward for the future that has been taken on board and approved, and it has been wanted very much by the people. So far it has not been liked by Local Government New Zealand, which tends to have a different response to the National Party\u2019s proposals in relation to the Resource Management Act, and Dr Nick Smith is up there threatening the chair of Local Government New Zealand with banishment from the National Party, because he tends to disagree\u2014because Local Government New Zealand knows that this Government has actually worked with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022 data-id=\u00224cfe8000b6094cc686649508a161e353\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cfe8000b6094cc686649508a161e353\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Is it not extraordinary? The Minister for the Environment, Marian Hobbs, who has just resumed her seat, lives in an absolute fantasy world. She is wrapped in cotton wool and has rocks in her head. Let us look at some of the things she said. She tried to explain away a 36-page Supplementary Order Paper that has been dumped on the Committee today as the Government listening to the people. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is a gross abuse of process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003ELet me spell out for the Minister, who should know better, how it is meant to work. The Government, the executive, is meant to bring a bill to the Parliament. The bill is referred to a select committee, then the select committee is meant to be given due time to consider that bill. That is how the legislature scrutinises the laws the executive intends to pass. That is how it is meant to work. But\u2014no\u2014what did the Government do? First of all it put its members on the select committee under incredible instructions to ram everything through as fast as they could. Now the Government comes here right at the last stages of this Parliament\u2014possibly the last sitting day; we might dribble over into tomorrow, but effectively it is the last sitting day\u2014and on something as significant as the Resource Management Act it dumps on us a Supplementary Order Paper with a whole lot of new measures that no New Zealander will have a chance to submit on and no select committee will scrutinise. And this Minister has the audacity and temerity to try to say that that is listening to the people. What absolute rot and rubbish! Nothing could be further from the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EAnother interesting point is that the Minister in the chair, David Benson-Pope, put out a press release today in which he stated that these amendments will not have an impact on development\u2014the Resource Management Act will not have an impact on development. He referred to a KPMG report that is purported to say so. The truth of the matter is that the people who did that report did not consult with one farmer or one representative of the farmers of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c622a64c58344b58b879d23c702dafc0\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Or the foresters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7431aec26743d39f6343ac292d08a4\u0022\u003EHon KEN SHIRLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Or the forestry sector, for that matter. The introductory comments in the bill itself state that it will have an impact on the primary industries of New Zealand. What a contradiction! The Minister in the chair\u2014again, wrapped in cotton wool\u2014puts out a press release, probably drafted by officials, saying that this will not impact on development, when the primary sector of New Zealand is reporting to us that it was not consulted in any way, and when the Government\u2019s own introductory comments state that the bill will impact on primary industries in this country, as we know it most certainly will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003ESome aspects of the 36-page Supplementary Order Paper\u2014and members have had only very limited time to look at them\u2014are, I think, acceptable. I think that the measure to take into consideration the value of existing infrastructure in consenting or reconsenting is significant. We have that farcical situation of the Tongariro power scheme, a sunk investment. Some of us would remember that incredible investment of the 1960s and 1970s and all the tunnelling that went on to produce that infrastructure for New Zealand\u2019s power; yet another decision made by the Environment Court has virtually truncated those water rights and reduced the capacity of the Tongariro power scheme to function. Of course, the Tongariro power scheme, in turn, feeds into the Waikato River and all the power schemes down the Waikato River. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EBut the Government has to appreciate that, because of all the metaphysical nonsense and spiritual values it has imported into the Resource Management Act, we have decisions like the one in the Tongariro instance. Those matters should not be dealt with under the Resource Management Act. They are totally inappropriate. The intent of the Resource Management Act was meant to be the sustainable management of natural and physical resources, yet somehow successive Governments have tagged on all those spiritual, metaphysical values that we cannot deal with in this way. We have to have separate legislation if we are to try to tackle those. The Resource Management Act tries to do too much and it fails miserably. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219386ba0-5a6e-485e-abc0-5a3128b4e1f6\u0022\u003EThere are other matters that I think do require mentioning, certainly with regard to the iwi authorities and hap\u016B. It is good to see that it is confined now to consultation at the plan development stage and not actually at the consent stage, because extortion was occurring in this place. In this country we had extortion whereby any consent applicant was held to ransom by people purporting to represent spiritual values.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002243e9b3ff91944d47b4162e42743c2f5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243e9b3ff91944d47b4162e42743c2f5c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take the opportunity to give some more background to Supplementary Order Paper 389. Those members who were in the House at the time of my second reading speech will already be aware of this, but I will repeat at a little greater length. First of all, most of these issues are technical but, as has been identified, there are also some policy issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EIn terms of the recognition of existing investment, the Government has made a change to section 104 of the principal Act, to be inserted by a proposed new clause 43A, that requires consent authorities to have regard to the value of existing investment when considering applications for a new consent to replace an existing consent on expiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EIn respect of the iwi register, the reason for the change from the recommendations of the Local Government and Environment Committee was so that, although that consultation can still take place, councils are not required to resource it at the hap\u016B level. Section 36B, proposed in clause 15, is amended to allow for joint management agreements between local authorities and public authorities, iwi authorities, and groups that are recognised. A proposed new clause allows for the incorporation of external material into national policy statements and the New Zealand coastal policy statement, by reference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EIn terms of the relationship between standards and designations, we are recommending in the Supplementary Order Paper an amendment to clause 21 to require that where a designation to which a national environmental standard otherwise applies is created over existing works, those works shall not have to comply with the national environmental standard at that point. As was mentioned by the member Jeanette Fitzsimons, there is also an amendment to clause 5 to include, under the definition \u201Cinfrastructure\u201D, infrastructure associated with electricity generation. In respect of the new ministerial powers for intervention in relation to the coastal marine areas, this was a compromise position negotiated between the Department of Conservation and the Ministry for the Environment in terms of the respective roles of the Ministers and the statutes under which they operate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe two other matters relate to aquaculture law reform. There is an important clause to amend section 165Z of the Resource Management Act to rectify an issue that came out of the Aquaculture Reform Bill, to clarify that regional councils must identify excluded areas prior to inviting proposals for private plan changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a640b11af024a23aa0d2b25ae5d8c55\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: So you screwed up last time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a89e3da12243238215d64b20d2bf1f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the foolish interjection from Dr Smith, no, the Government did not screw up; neither did officials. But we have listened to communities and to local government, unlike that member\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220303cdc2a77245b484fd42a518dc2916\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yeah! Tell us what consultation you had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4ce0f37f54477a39f119e36d0f72c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: If Dr Smith just closes his mouth for a moment and listens, I will draw to his attention a comment made by local government\u2014one that we are, and should be, justifiably proud of. It is that the development of this bill has been \u201Can exemplary collaborative exercise\u201D. Later on in the day I will also refer him to some of the documents I tabled in the House yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u0022290890828a74458684ad6f5eef0ac07c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022290890828a74458684ad6f5eef0ac07c\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take up some of the comments that have been made in regard to this bill. I am also appalled at the substantial Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope, which has been put to the Committee without any public consultative process whatsoever, and without any parliamentary scrutiny, at all. I just reiterate that the purpose of the Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill is to address problems with delays, costs, inconsistencies, uncertainty, and leadership. On the question of leadership, I refer to the purpose of this bill. In clause 4, one of the stated purposes is: \u201C(v) consultation with iwi and resource planning by iwi;\u201D. I take exception to the fact that the Government says that that purpose will improve the Resource Management Act in any way, whatsoever. In fact, I think that it shows a continued disgrace in terms of the leadership provided by the current Government, in that it continues to promote, increase, and exacerbate the separatist environment that we live in today. This should be a nation where we stand alongside one another and together, rather than apart from each other. In my view, when one group of people is identified separately, stands apart, and is consulted separately from the rest of the community, that is separatism. That is being promulgated through this amendment bill and is also supported by Supplementary Order Paper 389. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThat sort of leadership filters down into our communities, and is the sort of leadership that means that, when given an inch, people take a mile. We have talked in this Chamber about bureaucrats and planners running amok with the sort of largesse that has been given by this Government, particularly with regard to consultation with iwi, etc. Now iwi will have a pre-eminent position in the planning process outside the resource consent process. In the planning environment, iwi management plans must now be taken into account. But the problem with doing that is that nobody has a chance to have any say on those iwi management plans, apart from the iwi itself. What is the public input into those plans, and how will councils adjudicate on those plans in terms of the public interest, when all the weighting is given to the iwi or hap\u016B that puts forward the management plan? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI can give members a classic example, in terms of the Draft Wairoa River Valley Strategy, a combined draft strategy of Tauranga City Council and Western Bay of Plenty District Council. It is a draft strategy, but it gives major cause for concern when we look at the costs involved and see the fact that the councils actually identify that funds will be put towards iwi management plans. Those are ratepayer funds. Do ratepayers have the opportunity to say they do not want to fund management plans from iwi and that they will fund only management plans for the community as a whole, recognising that iwi are a part of the community? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI would hope that more and more of our communities make those statements, because when we look at that particular strategy, we see it not only talks about councils funding some of the iwi management plans but also identifies some matters that the councils state should be included in the iwi management plans. It states the councils will: \u201CRecognise in decision-making the home or kainga of Ngati Kahu and Ngati Pango including the Pa, cultural and spiritual sites within the LMA\u201D. Now, the reference to \u201Ccultural\u201D is fine. There is more than one culture in this country, so I wonder whether the councils will recognise only one culture. But the other aspect is that of the \u201Cspiritual sites within the LMA\u201D. Spiritual sites could be anything. How does one prove that something could come under those spiritual parameters? There is absolutely no way on God\u2019s earth\u2014in God\u2019s heaven, maybe\u2014 that we can do that. In terms of how that clause will be interpreted, people could actually dance on a site or say they have sung a song on it, and it will become \u201Cof spiritual value\u201D to those individuals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI just find it extraordinary that we are giving such incredible largesse, and we are doing it through putting this bill through the House, aided and abetted by Supplementary Order Paper 389. We are exacerbating the problem we already have of identifying people in a separatist way, separating them out from the community, and standing them apart from the community, instead of including them within the definition of \u201Ccommunity\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u002265e4561f0acd4dc4826090db43443418\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265e4561f0acd4dc4826090db43443418\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to make some comments first of all on the Supplementary Order Paper that has been tabled. There has been much comment on the size of it, and how preposterous that is. I expected that when we were going through the select committee process we would have to deal with a fairly sizable Supplementary Order Paper because of the speed with which we had had to work. In fact, right until the last moment we deliberated in the Local Government and Environment Committee, we knew that it was impossible for the drafters and officials to have got everything right, and that there would be a number of technical changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe bulk of the Supplementary Order Paper is simply technical amendments to make sure that everything is right. However, United Future and I do not support the fact that the Supplementary Order Paper was tabled only yesterday. I do not see any reason why other members of the House could not have perhaps had more time to view and examine it. Nevertheless, the size of the Supplementary Order Paper is not an indication of major policy changes within the bill. We do welcome some of those changes, though, because they are not exactly new issues. They were debated during the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI was really pleased to see that in the Supplementary Order Paper we were taking on board some more submitters\u2019 recommendations to the committee and, I think, further improving the bill and responding to submitters\u2019 requests. One was the consideration of existing investment in applications. The bill already deals with that consideration where there are competing consents on a renewal basis, and this is simply extending the case where there are no other competing interests. Of course, local authorities should take into account someone\u2019s investment when that person seeks to renew\u2014in a sense, although we never have renewals\u2014a consent. That is something business would welcome. Where people have invested a great deal in infrastructure, they should have that taken into consideration when they seek to have their consent renewed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe select committee also discussed the matter of the definition of \u201Cinfrastructure\u201D. Some very good submissions were made on that matter. I was quite impressed by the submission\u2014I forget the name of the organisation the gentleman was from\u2014that talked about quarries and their importance. That actually opened my eyes to how important quarries are in our communities. One can live in a place, drive around, and not know where all the aggregate comes from until someone brings it to one\u2019s attention. The submitter showed us that making sure there is adequate provision for aggregate is important for our road construction, building, and so on. Unfortunately, that will not be included, but I think the submitter made a very good case for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EBut I am pleased to see that the Minister and the officials have agreed to include infrastructure associated with electricity generation in this definition of \u201Cinfrastructure\u201D. I am sure David Parker will also be smiling, as we have had a great deal of discussion about this. Recent announcements by Todd Energy in Auckland about its desire to perhaps build some smaller power plants there, which may lead to dealing with the pylon and national grid problems, makes this amendment even more worthwhile. I think regional councils should be looking at not only how power can be transmitted into our regions but also, where possible, where we can generate that power within the regions and, therefore, avoid reliance on our national grid. So we welcome those particular amendments and believe they will also add to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EOne of the things we discussed in the select committee that was also amended slightly was the original proposal to give councils the power to require attendance at pre-hearing meetings. This comes out of a great deal of frustration for applicants and, I think, for local authorities, when objectors and submitters may agree to attend a pre-hearing meeting and they then fail to turn up. They do it once, do it again, and then do it again. Everybody else takes the time to turn up to try to deal with issues, but some people, particularly if they are frivolous or vexatious objectors, abuse the system. So we thought it would be a good idea to require them to attend. But as we started to examine what that would mean, we realised we would have to have some amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EWe finally arrived at allowing the councils to have the flexibility to require, or invite, people to attend, because in many cases what may be seen as a bit of a draconian power to require people to attend may not be the way forward. So I think we have arrived at a reasonable compromise to give local authorities that flexibility, and we have to trust in their wisdom to be able to exercise it. In most cases they will simply invite people to attend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EWe felt that, because additional costs could be placed upon an applicant with the pre-hearing meeting, it was wise for local authorities to have an applicant\u2019s consent before taking that measure. I think that will improve the operation of the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EAnother issue that we dealt with was accreditation requirements, and it was probably the most well received proposal in the bill right from the word go. Everyone thought that it should be compulsory for over 50 percent of those sitting on consent hearing processes at the local body level to be at least minimally qualified to handle those responsibilities. That process has been going on voluntarily, and it is already making an improvement to the operation of the Act. So there was no need to change it per se, but we were concerned about what would happen if fewer than 50 percent of a council\u2019s councillors, or of those sitting on appeal hearings or consent hearings, were minimally qualified. We were concerned that it could mean applicants would suffer from having their consents nullified. I think it was wise to make it clear that factor would not impinge upon applicants but would reflect upon the council itself, and once the person\u2019s consent had been granted, that consent would remain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EAnother issue we covered and discussed at some length was the transfer of discharge permits\u2014a very good idea in order to maximise the benefit of discharge permits that had been issued, and to make it possible for people who are not using their discharge permits to the full to be able to transfer it to someone else. However, we did recognise the possibility that it might lead to the further abuse of the environment, because if someone is not fully using his or her discharge permit and someone else comes along and uses it to the max, we have not gained a net benefit for the environment. The amendments proposed to section 137 are intended to deal with that matter so that, at the end of the process, the environment is the beneficiary. Now the provision will not be a financial windfall for someone who has held a discharge consent for a long period of time and never really used it, and who suddenly has almost a property right that he or she can go out and trade to someone else, while the environment is left worse off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI welcome these amendments, and I think we are progressing in this debate and in this passage of the bill towards a very good resource management amendment that will\u2014unlike the member opposite\u2014be recognised by most throughout the country as a vast improvement to the Resource Management Act. That was the overwhelming message we had from submitters as we went around the country, and we have listened to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u00225dc9b89047af414086e7bcf6553af2de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dc9b89047af414086e7bcf6553af2de\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak in regard to new clause 90AA in Supplementary Order Paper 389. New Zealand First does not have regard for the opinions already expressed with regard to the Waitaki catchment. Our party gave firm support to the Waitaki Catchment Board being established. We have faith in that board. We have followed very closely, day by day, the submissions made to that board, and the time frame that is set is one with which we concur, and we concur with the insertion here of the provisions that relate to the implementation of that plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E We know, contrary to the belief outside, that should there be concern on the part of any of the local authorities, they have the right of appeal. That is not generally understood, because there is a widespread feeling and myth being perpetuated out in the community that this board\u2019s finding is absolute. It is not. In actual fact all local authorities have the right of appeal before the final plan becomes part of Environment Canterbury\u2019s regional water plan. In actual fact, anyone who has studied the Waitaki catchment and the valley past and present, and the need for water, will understand exactly why this Waitaki board plan was a sound move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand First hope that this will set a new regime for water flow, and a new regime for rivers, and that it will be a model, as we stated during the debate. So we earnestly support this part. It is the one part, although we do not support the Supplementary Order Paper and the rest of the bill, that we can relate to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EI come back very quickly to another matter. I said this earlier and I want to reiterate it. Unlike other members, we see provisions in Part II of the principal Act relating to M\u0101ori. We will be looking for further explanation in a reviewed Act as to what sections 6(e) and 7(a) actually mean. We do not concur with the opinions that have just been expressed by other parties in this Committee. We are very conscious of the fact that as far as we are concerned we agree with Dame Anne Salmond\u2014it is a basic fact that M\u0101ori are the indigenous people of New Zealand. They forged a unique society before other settlers arrived, and they in turn, with regard to M\u0101ori language, arts, marae, and tribal histories have a real part in our present and are part of our past and our future. They exist nowhere else in the world, and they help to define what is special about our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThat is the New Zealand First stance, but having said that, if that were implicit in Part 2 in an expanded form, there would be no need for the issue of co-management. That introduces another element altogether. That is an element in this revised bill that we do not concur with, because that takes us into another realm, and it is nothing more, as far as most rate payers are concerned, than a recipe for uncertainty. The bill should have clarity. This creates uncertainty with regard to issues, place by place and region by region, and with that part we do not concur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7964cc70e85459f8ab1a679161feec4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7964cc70e85459f8ab1a679161feec4\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rushed down to the Chamber because I could not believe the comments made by the outgoing member for Otago, David Parker\u2014and I say that because Jacqui Dean from National is doing an extremely good job there. Earlier David Parker told the House that there was no abuse and no blackmail, and that no money changed hands under the Resource Management Act. I thought that it is no wonder the Labour Party is totally out of touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI will give a real-life example to Mr David Parker, and then he can go back to Queenstown and understand why people there think their MP is totally out of touch. We have had a case in Christchurch concerning a motel developer at 160 Riccarton Road. He bought a piece of land and started to develop a motel. The neighbour objected, and we thought that was fair enough, because it is understood that that process exists under the resource consent process. But I want to read a quote from a letter from the objector\u2019s lawyer to the motel developer\u2019s lawyer: \u201CWe are, however, ready to entertain the prospect of a compromise, provided that your client undertake to postpone the commencement of his building operation until the end of February 2004 and pay the sum of $7,500 as a compensatory payment for the significant disturbance for the remaining period of our tenure, the costs we have incurred, and our time.\u201D There is more: \u201CIf, on the other hand, your client would prefer to be free to build immediately and is prepared to recognise the greater value to him and to compensate for the greater cost and loss to us, then we will be prepared to withdraw the appeal without condition on payment of $22,500.\u201D Well! And Mr David Parker says that those sorts of things do not happen under the current Act! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe best part of the story is that the motel developer refused to pay up. The objector drew out the hearings process by objecting to one of the panel members, former city councillor Charles Manning. He objected to him, and kept on filing papers to delay the hearings process. Eventually, a week before the hearing was about to take place, the objector withdrew his objection, without getting any of the compensation demanded. But that had caused the motel developer a 12-month delay. We have to ask why anybody in New Zealand would consider going through with building a factory, or whatever the project is, when all an objector has to do is to put in an objection and the other people then suffer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThis amendment bill is still a compromise. I am extremely disappointed to hear from United Future\u2019s Larry Baldock, who is prepared to compromise and be a doormat. It is no wonder that United Future as low as it is in the polls. The United Future members came in here, after supposedly making a promise to stand up for their supporters, demand a high standard, and demand the ideal solution. Who actually says that Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope should not be subject to the scrutiny of the Local Government and Environment Committee, although the need for that is pointed out by our most hard-working member, the Hon Nick Smith? Significant changes are included in that Supplementary Order Paper, and even the Minister eventually, and reluctantly, took a call to briefly explain the Supplementary Order Paper. I think its tabling shows a complete disrespect for the rights of the select committee to properly scrutinise legislation. That Supplementary Order Paper is totally unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI hope the outgoing member for Otago has listened to the case I have outlined, and will not now stand up and insist that things like that do not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022719a12dc9e96440f8fddb5b480b51b19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022719a12dc9e96440f8fddb5b480b51b19\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER (Labour\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E The first thing I will respond to is the misquote that the previous speaker attributed to me. Finer arguments are often missed by her, and she missed one on this occasion, as well. I did not deny that there is a history of stand-over tactics on occasions, by objectors who use the position of their objections to try to extract some promise from applicants in order to secure the removal of their objections. I did not deny that. What I said was that the way we remedy that in this bill is to make it absolutely clear that no one has an obligation to consult anyone in relation to a consent application. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie would go further. She would have us say that M\u0101ori do not have a right to be consulted in relation to plans\u2014a position that is absolutely irreconcilable with National\u2019s own legislation, the Ng\u0101 Tahu Claims Settlement Act. That Act was passed by a National Government, and gives absolutely express statutory recognition to a promise made by the then National Government that it would consult Ng\u0101 Tahu in respect of plans for the South Island. What cant we are hearing from that inconsistent National Party today! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe next issue\u2014[Interruption] I know that hurts those members: the fact that I stand here representing the formerly true blue seat of Otago must be like a burr under the saddle for all those old hacks in National. All I can say is: \u201CLook forward to another 3 years of it!\u201D It was no accident that I overturned the many-thousands vote majority of the previous National Party spokesperson on agriculture. My constituents in the Otago electorate made a reasoned decision\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214f1c577f814ed4afac8c1c48921025\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. This is not relevant to the issues that arise in this debate on Part 1. We do not want a recitation of that man\u2019s successes and failures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3a6e98a86e44a08b452c5dd48e3167b\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I point out that this matter has been put into the debate by National members. They cannot now deny its relevance, having first put the issue into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e6be45996c949e3bb9156103b857feb\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chairperson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dddac64057174047b993561b6648df57\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: No, please be seated. I am going to rule on the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022048433242ba849b7802753cf1656659b\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: I just wanted to make a contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d126dba19874bad9f9dec0ac080f41a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please be seated. Members all know that there have been numerous references\u2014I think it is the time of the week, the end of the term, or something to do with something else. Maybe it is in the water but, certainly, they have been general throughout this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802725488d124c10a6c2c7e8abf3e8ba\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: They do not like the situation, do they? But they have it, and I am here to stay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ELet us just reflect on the Waitaki legislation. Why is it that the National Party is so out of step with every newspaper in the Otago electorate? It is because they have flip-flopped so many times on that issue. Within this term of Parliament, Gerry Brownlee, National\u2019s deputy leader, has called for the Government to wipe aside resource management constraints and push through Project Aqua\u2014as the National Government did with the Clyde Dam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESome months later in Oamaru Dr Brash said: \u201COh no, we don\u2019t need that. What we need is a board-of-inquiry approach.\u201D What did the Government do? The Government actually agreed with that. We set up a board-of-inquiry approach chaired by a judge in order to apply Resource Management Act principles independently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat was National\u2019s response to that? It claimed that we were trying to \u201Cthink big\u201D Project Aqua. That was strange. Project Aqua was pulled, and what was the National Party\u2019s response then? All of a sudden, an independent board-of-inquiry approach was wrong and National members were saying that if they did not like the result they would overturn it. What would they do? What is that code for? They would \u201Cthink big\u201D Project Aqua; that is what that code is for. National would impose a central government decision, rather than a proper, principled Resource Management Act decision chaired by a judge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat is the latest bit of cant? It is a Supplementary Order Paper by Dr Smith calling for more time for submissions to be heard in respect of the Waitaki legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281b68f9ef0e949c18656934aab469445\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756ad97668c94dc49993d58c2bb8b918\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith has just said that that is right. He should read this morning\u2019s Otago Daily Times. The hearings have finished; everyone who wanted to be heard has been heard. The hearings are finished, and now that board has 2 months to write its decision. What absolute sophistry we are getting from the National Party on those issues; it is ridiculous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn relation to the other suggestion that the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper is full of new ideas, I tell members that I actually sat through all the submissions, I read the bill, and I know about the issues. There is only one issue in that Supplementary Order Paper that was not considered by us at the select committee, and it relates to aquaculture. That is the only issue. If those National members cannot get their heads around that now, it really shows the lamentable lack of intellect on that side of the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022 data-id=\u00226cab04aebc104f17b220ebc07902fdad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cab04aebc104f17b220ebc07902fdad\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am a keen supporter of the Western Springs Speedway in Auckland. I first went to the speedway about 40 years ago. I am not sure whether any National Party member in this House has ever been to the Western Springs Speedway, least of all Dr Brash, when the speedway is actually on\u2014and it is on at a convenient and appropriate time. But I have been to the speedway, and enjoyed it off and on over the years. I have taken my children there. [Interruption] I have driven a twin-turbo Subaru GTB, which is a nice car. I drive a Subaru Impreza now, and I have a Rover Tomcat. I have a tomcat car, apparently. [Interruption] If I could just get my speech across.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b15c5c8ae3034baeb307c3a3772c71bc\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e216caa0cb4d4efbae26a24b3ad1dd6c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute; I am going to rule. There is far too much barraging coming from the side. It is very hard for the member when it is going that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a94b2e66b1541f8bf684bc91a5f8e0f\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: It might be very hard for those people who are actually interested in the speedway, which, clearly, National Party members are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EI want to refer to the amendment put forward by Dr Smith to find out what he is actually getting at. The key, I think, to that amendment is this: is the present decibel-level provision for the speedway part of the operative plan? I need to know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec252bddd29a4d8fa12b98f99da37fe2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022524d0377889a4da4903dea44f6ac26be\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: If it is part of the operative plan, then how can that amendment have any bearing on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531a1416958c47bd9ded3f923afc71b3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Because it will allow the proposed plan, when it is publicly notified, to stand over the operative plan, which will enable the Auckland City Council to resolve this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a972a0902af4894924a0176bb7bf9cc\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: But that is the case, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d695361702bd4a858406da1062cc7152\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dcab49b194d41e586791827c1073f0d\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: If I may just carry on with my speech now. Dr Smith confirms that there is an operative plan with regard to the 75 decibels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20d07c4e19045a59d47581fecb63544\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 85.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b417b70f2ec4e3486105077433b05d6\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member might find it is 75, and that is the whole problem. It is 75, and that is too low.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e79fe9a17be486cb05be7ca2309f9bf\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s 85.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1a8547d4224077a06013e5254afc0f\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, 75 or 85, we will sort it out later, but I happen to think that it is 75. If it is an operative plan, surely the only way an operative plan can be changed is by going through the process and changing the plan. [Interruption] Exactly. Surely that can be done under the present legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ba660bce4ee485bb2a32a06e8bab7e2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: But it takes 3 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c0d8e37687441b595de8a9c9526b726\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: And it can take 3 years; that is fair enough. What in this amendment will take less than 3 years? That is what I am getting at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243230a5fedd3470291f01dabe82ff880\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can I explain? I want to help the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9144358f1c24d2498f013d4e39d1799\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The member can take a call. That is what I want him to do, because I am very concerned about the whole situation. His amendment to section 20 of the principle Act, in proposed new clause 5AB, would add the following words to section 20(1): \u201Cor a change to a plan\u201D, and section 20(1)(a) talks about a \u201Cproposed plan\u201D, and section 20(1)(b) is new as well. The only other new bit is section 20(6). That is the important thing that I shall clarify. Is the member for Nelson saying that a city council can change an operative plan before the time comes to do the ordinary district plan set-up? Does he want it to be done earlier and be treated as a special case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad8120ce50f44fbcae2c67abc4cacadd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e1e238d708644bfb4995f9fd4e54d4c\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: If that can be done now, what is the problem? I shall be very interested to see just how that would work. I am concerned. If we can speed things up, if we keep chopping and changing, how many times within a district-plan period can those changes be made? Can one be done every year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204ee13b8be95496f9fdc8e27587c89f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289556528ef524d928821a5291f4597e1\u0022\u003EDAIL JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith is saying that with his proposal it could be done every year. So there would be no certainty in a planned period. If one has a plan that is meant to be for a set number of years before it can be changed, with Dr Smith\u2019s amendment, one could keep on changing the plan regularly, not necessarily even yearly. Where would we end up with that? There would be no certainty all the time. I am also concerned about what effect this would have on, say, an operative plan for Wellington Airport. Could there be constant changes to the noise levels for Wellington Airport, and perhaps the Nelson Airport? Where would there be certainty for people who go through an expensive legal process to fight a case\u2014[Interruption] Sandra Goudie tells me that there is no certainty. She is giving the whole thing away. Surely there must be some degree of certainty with the whole planning situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003EI would be very interested to hear what Dr Smith has to say, from the point of view not only of Auckland but of other areas, as well. I would also be interested to hear whether there will be regular changes to that plan, as the case might be. I am a great supporter of the speedway and I would be willing to give it every chance to see whether it could go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4afc7ae1b314b4887c56cdd297cf7e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4afc7ae1b314b4887c56cdd297cf7e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I shall take a brief call to answer the points that have been raised by Dail Jones about my amendments. First, he makes the point that councils can make changes to their district plan. That is true with or without my amendment, and they can do it as often as they like in proposing new plans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe law as it stands under the Resource Management Act is that if one has an existing plan and a proposed plan, whatever is the more restrictive applies in the interim. For instance, at the moment the Auckland City Council district plan states that 85 decibels is the minimum noise level, and if the plan is amended to provide for a minimum noise level of 88 decibels\u2014which is the proposal from the Auckland City Council to solve the problem of the speedway\u2014then the lesser of 88 and 85 is still 85. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe key change provided by my amendment is that when the council proposes its change, it can make the decision as to whether it applies immediately. In other words, it has the choice\u2014it is not automatically the most restrictive; it is for the council to determine. So it makes no difference as to the number of changes that can be made. The only significant change my amendment would make is that the council has the discretion, when it introduces a proposed plan, to say which of those will apply in the interim, and that is different from the current law. And, yes, it will solve the problem of the speedway and it will be a test of this Parliament as to whether it is prepared to back those 50,000 users and support this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa8d136db29a40c086891e2c95d3183e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa8d136db29a40c086891e2c95d3183e\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL (National\u2014Rakaia):\u003C/span\u003E The singularly most important issue for this Parliament to deal with in this term was the reform of the Resource Management Act, and the Government has made a hash of it. Under this legislation the Resource Management Act is not being reformed at all. People were calling for simplification. They believe that the genesis of the Resource Management Act is right, but the execution has been appalling and they are looking for a vehicle to enable them to get on and develop their primary areas of interest and infrastructure development in a sustainable way, and this bill does not allow that to happen. What we had in its stead, until yesterday, was a 94-clause bill. We now have a Supplementary Order Paper that increases the number of those clauses to about 134, yet we have had very little time to consult and discuss those as a Parliament. I think that members will agree, in their heart of hearts, that that is not the way to make good law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258d082457166466dbce6bc6044020923\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: Apart from United Future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e6e0d06b124ad394f3deac1dae152a\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL\u003C/span\u003E: United Future seems to think it is OK, but the majority of members do not think it is the right approach. The Hon Richard Prebble made reference to this in his valedictory speech, and I totally agree with him. If we are to pass good law we need the time to understand exactly what it is that we are passing. I defy any member of this House to have picked up a 34-page Supplementary Order Paper, read it, understood all of the detail, and be in a position today to make an intelligent contribution to this debate that will stand close scrutiny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair, the Hon David Benson-Pope, has made a couple of statements via the press that do not stand close scrutiny, either. He has said that the Government has consulted business, and business has said that the Resource Management Act is not its No. 1 priority. I know that he has taken a very narrow definition of what business is. I know that Federated Farmers believes that reform of the Resource Management Act is the No. 1 priority. If we talk to any developer or anyone trying to provide infrastructure, they will tell us that reform of the Resource Management Act is absolutely their No. 1 priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EIt is not as if the Government did not have prior notice of this importance. It commissioned the Al Dunn report. Some members might recall that report, which identified 162 compliance issues. Of that number, 42 related specifically to the Resource Management Act. The Government\u2019s own report stated that 42 of the most significant compliance issues facing New Zealand right at the moment relate to the Resource Management Act, but what do we get apart from tinkering? Yet the Minister in the chair is trying to tell us that it is wide-reaching change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EHe also argues that the bill will strengthen the position of district and regional councils. I remind him and other members of the recent decision on Blue Mountain Lumber. The local council and the regional council approved that timber mill on the Coromandel. It was rolled by the Environment Court. The Minister in the chair should take a call and explain to the Committee how this legislation will strengthen the powers of regional and district councils, when they can make a decision, having received and looked at all of the evidence in detail, yet that decision can be overturned by the Environment Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EBlue Mountain Lumber is just an example of a forestry industry in free fall, through no fault of its own. All the industry experts in forestry accept that the way to trade out of their current problems is through midsize processing. They all accept that, but guess how many mills have been built in this country in the last 2 years under the Resource Management Act? Zilch, zero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2c3be87f3634a13914d2fd994740d6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2c3be87f3634a13914d2fd994740d6f\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac2ec25160e0474ebfe32b47943de789\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac2ec25160e0474ebfe32b47943de789\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The bill and Supplementary Order Paper we are discussing are of considerable interest to me, partly because I was listening in my office and I heard the speech made by Mr Baldock of United Future, and I listened to Mr Peters for the New Zealand First Party, and I was curious as to what changes there could be that would produce such wildly divergent views. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EI came down to the Committee and found, in debating Part 1, that a Supplementary Order Paper dated 2 August, yesterday, had been dumped on us with an explanatory note\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4da5811-fb5a-4721-b57a-518446bd7796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022712ce187be68427c991c923447fd5352\u0022\u003EDail Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c543b94970974880ba46316ed67d8647\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS\u003C/span\u003E: Today, was it? It is dated 2 August and it has an explanatory note that states, at the end of 35 pages: \u201CThis Supplementary Order Paper refines the drafting of changes made to the Bill by the select committee. It also includes drafting to give effect to new policy.\u201D I think I am reasonably quick at studying legal drafting, after the time I have spent at it, but I cannot fathom this. I think the Minister should be absolutely ashamed that he will be asking this Committee to vote on material as hard to understand as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EWhy would a bill not be amended, using what is now 20-year-old technology, showing us what has been omitted and what has been inserted? Why is there no redline version? Why is the Labour Government now trying to bring a closure motion on the Part 1 debate when I do not think anyone has understood it, other than, perhaps, Nick Smith? We had what should have been debate between New Zealand First and National, in the person of Dr Smith, which actually halted as they tried earnestly to explain to each other what they thought the provisions mean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt at all that this Committee will be voting on very important provisions when maybe only one or two people in this Chamber have the faintest idea what they mean. That is a disgrace. There is no justification for it. I have tried to work out what exactly is being done with regard to iwi consultation. As members know, the ACT party has long considered that to be racist, that there is no justification for iwi consultation to be a separate right from the right of all New Zealanders to be consulted on rights or usages that affect them. I cannot work out exactly what is happening here. It seems that iwi consultation will now be restricted to the determination of a plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, plans may be able to be modified daily. It may well be, particularly if the Hon Nick Smith\u2019s amendment goes through, that the plan can be modified whenever the local authority has a whim. In that case we will have constant consultation, and the whole notion of long-term planning, which gives people a framework so they know what they can do with their land, will be gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EPerhaps it is only the final nail in the coffin of a false premise, anyway. The ability to bring in plan revisions midstream and give them immediate effect has probably seen long-term planning gone, but I am very concerned that no one in this Chamber seems to be standing up for the notion of property rights. Article 2 tried to protect the right of individuals to do as they would with their land, without interference from their neighbours\u2014or princes, or despots, or priests, or anyone else\u2014provided that they were not harming third parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E I was fascinated to hear United Future members on this part, saying that they supported this planning, and criticising the ACT party, when United Future has brought in a bill purporting to want to entrench property rights in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. It has brought in a bill that is almost a clean copy of Owen Jennings\u2019 bill of 5 years ago, and then we have Mr Baldock, another United Future member, essentially dumping all over Mr Copeland\u2019s ideas. He is essentially supporting a Resource Management Act that makes a total mockery of property rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EAs far as I can tell, this Supplementary Order Paper will be making power stations part of infrastructure\u2014which I guess is useful, only because the Greens oppose it. The one guide we can use when we cannot understand the provisions is to see who is supporting it and who is not. As there is bitter opposition from the Greens, I know that it must be in New Zealand\u2019s interests so I suppose we should vote for that part. That is the only guide I can use when dumped with 35 pages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00226a89ac7e3f6245428c9bacf2298757de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a89ac7e3f6245428c9bacf2298757de\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf680581af004ac38a9bf590a0ee81a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf680581af004ac38a9bf590a0ee81a4\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E We heard from Minister Hobbs this afternoon that this Supplementary Order Paper is the result of special pleading\u2014a kind of special pleading that is open to some stakeholders but not to others. In the adjournment month they have knocked on her door, and local government and resource management lawyers have come, as have other stakeholders, and they have persuaded the Government to change policy as introduced in this Supplementary Order Paper. Yet the only example the Minister could give us of changes that were the result of listening to the people in this way was that the Environment Court, when it looks at the evidence, should have to consider the decision made by the council hearing. That matter was actually inserted in the bill as reported back. So it is still not quite clear which of these changes are the result of special pleading to the Minister during the adjournment. But it does reflect the selective approach to consultation that we see also in the Cabinet minutes, which agree to the setting up of reference groups on national policy statements and national environmental standards whereby selective consultation is with the industry to be regulated, rather than with the public, the environmental movement, or whatever is progressing the work on these environmental standards and national policy statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ETranspower told the Local Government and Environment Committee that it was already working with officials to write the standards for high voltage transmission lines and the standards for electromagnetic fields as produced by those transmission lines. Transpower told us that the draft of those standards was expected to be ready to go out for public submissions in July. So we must be very close now, given that this is the beginning of August. But nobody on any of those consultation groups is reflecting the wider public interest or the environment. It is the regulators and the regulated working together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI have to comment on Brian Connell\u2019s remarks about Blue Mountain Lumber. As far as I know, Brian Connell does not live in the Coromandel and is not particularly familiar with what has gone on in our local community. Everybody in the Coromandel agrees that processing the forests in the northern Coromandel locally would be a good idea. But the site chosen by Blue Mountain Lumber was a peaceful rural valley, a completely inappropriate site, between two streams that fed directly into the waters of the Whangapoua Harbour, against the backdrop of the spectacular \u201Ccastle\u201D up on the Coromandel ranges. There was no possibility of that site not contaminating the two streams and the harbour. It was not an industrial site. It was a rural site, and it was an area of tourism importance, and the local community objected to that site being used. The local councils did not agree because they want to see economic development, but the Environment Court did agree, and that is the way the Resource Management Act is meant to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EFurthermore, one of the points of local processing was to reduce the amount of timber trucking on the roads so that what was taken out from the mill would be sawn timber, instead of whole logs, and that would reduce the number of trucks going down the Coromandel coast on those windy roads. But, lo and behold, what did Blue Mountain Lumber want to do? It wanted to build a really big mill, too big for the trees in the forests of the northern Coromandel, so it wanted to truck trees in. That company wanted to truck whole logs up the Coromandel Peninsula to the mill so it could then truck the sawn timber back down again. That is the reason why the local people opposed this site. They did not oppose an industrial site, for example, in an industrial part of Whitianga or another town up there. It was inappropriate development, and that is exactly what the Resource Management Act is for\u2014to stop that kind of development. The Act worked, and the National Party should just accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Dr Nick Smith to Part 1 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new clause:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E5AB\tCertain rules in proposed plans to have effect\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe principal Act is amended by repealing section 20, and substituting the following section:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E20\tCertain rules in proposed plans or proposed plan changes to have effect at the discretion of the local authority\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(1)\tA local authority may, before publicly notifying a proposed plan or a change to a plan, resolve that:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(a)\tany rule in the plan or proposed change to the plan does not have effect until the plan or proposed plan change becomes operative; or\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(b)\tany rule in the plan or proposed change to the plan will have effect in substitution for any existing rule until the plan or proposed plan change becomes operative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(2)\tPublic notification of the plan must include the resolution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(3)\tIf the resolution is rescinded, the local authority must, as soon as possible, publicly notify:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(a)\tthe rescission; and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(b)\tthe resolution to which it relates; and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(c)\tthe date of the rescission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(4)\tA rule to which a rescinded resolution relates has effect as a rule in the plan, or ceases to have effect in substitution for any existing rule, for all purposes on and from the day after the date on which the rescission is publicly notified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(5)\tA reference in this Act (except in Schedule 1) and in any regulations made under this Act to a proposed plan excludes a rule in the plan if\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(a) the rule is subject to a resolution under subsection (1)(a); and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(b) the resolution has not been rescinded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E(6)\tIf a local authority has resolved that any rule in the plan or proposed change to the plan will have effect in substitution for any existing rule until the plan or proposed plan change becomes operative pursuant to subsection (1)(b), then for the purposes of this Act, the existing rule will cease to have effect until the resolution is rescinded or the plan or proposed plan change becomes operative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002265d68fceaa6e4344b30bb9d71a1da944\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000558\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Dr Nick Smith to Part 1 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000559\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000560\u0022\u003E90AB\tTransitional powers to enable a further round of consultation on Waitaki Water Allocation Placements\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000561\u0022\u003E1\tThe Waitaki Board must undertake a further round of consultation on requiring water allocation placement taking into account amendments made in this Act.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000562\u0022\u003E2\tThe Waitaki Board shall allow a further four months for this round of consultation.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227b4b41629d04409ca60bbefb66ca98cf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 32\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; ACT New Zealand 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 83\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000563\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221525088a2eca49669755e13ab832d692\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224a38140a38614960aee94c8cdcec5afd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d87befd8f7946cead1e45f4ca1aba3d\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendment to Electricity Act 1992\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u002243c6edd7c08b4348a3f9687cb9cf2b69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243c6edd7c08b4348a3f9687cb9cf2b69\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National\u2014Epsom):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. An interesting issue arises in connection with Part 2 that I would like to briefly explain to you. The Resource Management and Electricity Legislation Amendment Bill, makes changes to two pieces of legislation. The first is the Resource Management Act and the second is the Electricity Act. Standing Order 259(1) makes it quite clear: \u201CExcept as permitted by Standing Orders, a bill must relate to one subject area only.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EWe know, and I am sure you know, Mr Chairman, how broad the scope and subject of the Resource Management Act is. When one looks at these provisions under the Electricity Act, and what they do, one sees that they in no sense relate to the subject matters of the Resource Management Act. When one looks at the principal Act, the Electricity Act 1992, and its purpose, one sees it is concerned with the regulation and supply of electricity, with consolidating and amending the law relating to the regulation and control of electrical workers, and with the repeal of the Electric Linemen Act, the Electricity Act 1968, and the Electrical Registration Act. When one looks at the particular changes in this bill, proposing changes to the Electricity Act, one sees that they all centre on the powers and duties of electricity operators and other owners of electrical works. You will see, Mr Chairman, that they are concerned with the construction or maintenance of works on roads and with the rights of entry in respect of level crossings. That is way, way removed from the subject area of resource management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EAlthough it is true, under Standing Order 259(2), that \u201CA bill may make consequential amendments to a number of Acts\u2026\u201D\u2014and that is an obvious point to acknowledge\u2014a bill must relate to one subject area only. When one looks at Standing Orders 261 and 262, one sees that none of the exceptions referred to apply. I am asking you, Mr Chairman, to take a hard look at what seems to be a clear breach of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022bebcf267ca8e409886f347923b6874fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bebcf267ca8e409886f347923b6874fc\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki):\u003C/span\u003E This bill received its first reading on 14 December 2004. The member referred to Standing Orders 259, 261, and 262, but, helpfully for his own argument, left out Standing Order 260, which states: \u201CThe Speaker scrutinises each bill on its introduction to ensure that it complies with Standing Order 259.\u201D By virtue of the bill receiving its first reading on 14 December last year, it had to be introduced into Parliament before that. For the introduction to have been accepted, the Speaker had to verify that it did indeed comply with Standing Order 259. So 8 months later is a little late to raise objections about the content of the bill. It is clearly covered by Standing Order 260.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022e12f6096c72244b1b3cf3db6754954a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e12f6096c72244b1b3cf3db6754954a0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised also, Mr Chairman, that the very issue of the appropriateness, or not, of the inclusion of these two matters in the bill was determined by the house\u2014I believe, on 1 December\u2014immediately after its tabling, so the House has already made a decision, I understand, on the very matter that has been raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002253ac26c382804eb4b50f85f32f64382a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253ac26c382804eb4b50f85f32f64382a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for that. Can I just say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224466ca02d4ec4efd992866913df588a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Just keep on cheating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c693f9402a34e3988f34681246b196e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order. I am ready to rule, but I will hear the Hon Mark Burton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00229e1d5a215b5e4d55b492acf3e16a5adb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e1d5a215b5e4d55b492acf3e16a5adb\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member opposite, Nick Smith, cannot make the claim against the Chair that he made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed40f005c7e4af4ae87a39cb4c92a71\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t against the Chair; it was against the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280a67986cefe4476a77e7b822ade66c0\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Chairperson. The member has been here long enough to know the Standing Orders. He directed the words \u201CKeep on cheating.\u201D at the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d16fba92600b4355830179928395b797\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No, at the Government. You know all about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00220c9544d7d27d467894f9d1f60af85d7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c9544d7d27d467894f9d1f60af85d7b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say that members in this place are of long-standing. The member well knows that there are to be no interjections at all during points of order. The member is warned. He has his first yellow card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022 data-id=\u00225b66c762b72a490991f8122f1217d01c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b66c762b72a490991f8122f1217d01c\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I am curious\u2014as this is a matter of principle\u2014about the reference to the House having previously made a decision on this. I would be obliged if we could be referred to it, rather than there just being an assertion. I imagine there must some record of it, if the House did, in fact, make that earlier decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002239c763fe5dfe4f9f87a03e1535249af3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239c763fe5dfe4f9f87a03e1535249af3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I just say to members that the House has resolved to allow the bill to proceed, despite Standing Order 259, and the Government gave notice of a motion to gain the House\u2019s authority for the bill to proceed. The House resolved accordingly, and it was done on 1 December 2004. I have the notice here, and the member is quite welcome to look at it here on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8bb13d7a3ef4029b0232877a2ab5cdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8bb13d7a3ef4029b0232877a2ab5cdc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I want to commend my colleague Richard Worth for highlighting the way that this Government will trample all over the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225028d0ca9e3341a39e70040b1daae803\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: But the House did it by majority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d7dd7382ae646b2a896ea7c617ac15e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, but the House did it by majority, he says. That is what I mean by cheating. The Government is always cheating on the rules; it is always ahead of the play. That is why I have in front of me a press release from the Minister in the chair, Mr Benson-Pope, stating that we need to consult more with regard to the Resource Management Act and electricity, but he does not apply that to himself. We have Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope, which includes 134 changes on which there has been absolutely no public participation, consultation, or anything. In fact, we received that Supplementary Order Paper only today, and that, Mr Chairman, is a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhat is even more extraordinary about this Government is that this bill is so radically different from the version introduced by the Minister. The Minister brought a bill to the House and said he had done all his homework, he stood by the bill, and he had got it right, yet very little has survived of the significant proposals that David Benson-Pope introduced in this mashed bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe provisions in this part relate to changes to the Electricity Act. We rightly ask why the Government is sneaking through some changes regarding electricity in a resource management bill. Actually, Dr Cullen has let the snake out of the bag. He said that Labour knows it is going down the tubes, and that if it does survive by the skin of its teeth it will be with the Green Party\u2019s support. There is no way the Green Party would ever support these sorts of draconian measures, so Dr Cullen said Labour should bang them through the House\u2013ram them through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299d0fae1971d4451adc5afd8174b4cbb\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990de17fd2c84a4dac76ff5385433819\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That is what Dr Cullen insinuated at a public meeting that included Business New Zealand. He said Labour had to ram these changes through before they get dished up to\u2014[Interruption] Government members want to talk about everything but that which is in the bill. I understand the reason for that. If I were a Government member in my last few days in Parliament, as Clayton Cosgrove and Darren Hughes are, the last issue that I would want to talk about is the mess that the Government has made in terms of electricity and resource management. I would be so embarrassed that I would be like the rest of their colleagues, who are hiding in the corridors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe reality is that the Government has made such a complete hash of this area of law that the changes it is making to the Electricity Act are nothing more than a panicked reaction at the last moment before an election. The Government knows that it is in trouble. It knows that from the reports of electricity crises throughout the country. It knows that because it has rejected initiatives like the Dobson River scheme and Project Aqua, and because it has refused over and over again to make changes to the Resource Management Act, this country is lining itself up for a very serious electricity crisis. The Government has nobody but itself to blame for that, and that is one of the many reasons why it will go in 51 days\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u002208d071b5379448bdaae44a69da7895eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208d071b5379448bdaae44a69da7895eb\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of New Zealand First in respect of Part 2, which has now substantively become a bill in its own right. I remind the Committee that the Local Government and Environment Committee heard a very interesting submission from New Era Energy. I want to quote the Hon Rob Storey, a former Minister for the Environment, because his comments are in line with our thinking in New Zealand First\u2014and this is talking not just of the original bill but of the revised bill. He said: \u201CAs a former Minister for the Environment, I am horrified at the amount of uncheckable and largely unfettered power which is proposed to be given through this law to any Minister who in future holds this portfolio.\u201D He also stated that he was mystified as to why an advocate, which is normally the role of the Minister for the Environment, could in future be forced into a situation under this bill where \u201Cthe environmental interest may be secondary to short-term commercial gains\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EIf that statement was to stand alone, one would think that that was a matter of opinion. But today we read that, at long last\u2014although it has widely been known in the wider world\u2014this Government is planning a series of new national standards, particularly in regard to electricity and telecommunications infrastructure, and that these when they come on line, particularly national policy on contentious topics such as electricity generation, should help to set a standard for construction and operation. One must regard the late addition of this section of the bill as being one for justifiable suspicion, because that is the way it would seem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EOne of the issues about this bill\u2014and on behalf of New Zealand First I want to express this very strongly\u2014in regard to policy statements and national standards is the uncertainty and the mixed message that the Government has been sending throughout its time. What happens is that Government members have probably gone off to a conference, been clapped on the back and cheered by the party leaders there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283598314d6dd41a0bca77d83c79c8f26\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: Go drinking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bfcc2eeb9234288b7e95bd7e24e496f\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: They probably go drinking, as well, in the after hours, then make an unfettered promise that they would fix it. Then they come back here and suddenly realise that the reality may be something different. So we have a whole series of uncertain opinions culminating in the bill that is before us. There can be no other explanation for this very late change. Those of us who heard the submissions were particularly interested to see that the small but interesting section was put right, particularly in regard to where works could be carried out above the ground, or at which height. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First still has reservations about what national standards and policy statements under this Government would mean, particularly with regard to their gestation and the lack of community input throughout the whole process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022504e80b85e0e450d905c330817e42852\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022504e80b85e0e450d905c330817e42852\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E National members have criticised the Labour Government for not doing enough to ensure we get more big power stations, more big pylons, and more big roads. They need not be concerned. This whole legislation, and everything that flows from it, is about forcing big infrastructure projects on to unwilling communities. In Part 2, those two clauses about works crossing roads\u2014extending it from 110 to 400 kilovolts\u2014are just a detail of the Electricity Act. The real meat of it is in Part 1, which we have discussed before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe combination of absolute environmental standards with ministerial direction may say, for example, that huge transmission lines shall be a permitted use in district plans\u2014that is clearly what is envisaged. National environmental standards will say, for example, that electromagnetic fields must be allowed to be 100 times stronger than those that have been shown in recent UK studies to be associated with a doubling of leukaemia risk in children, because that is about the standard that is being advised by the National Radiation Laboratory, at the moment. The weakening of the rights of the public to make submissions, and the striking out of submissions from members of the public who offend councils in some way, is all part of closing down public opposition to this. This is being done for only one way of providing for our electricity needs. It is not as though there is no other way of keeping the lights on in Auckland. There are lots of alternatives that could do so without imposing those huge transmission lines across Waikato. But this Government has done absolutely nothing to make sure that those alternatives can be properly developed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Government has given the Electricity Commission the job of evaluating the transmission lines against the alternatives, but has not done anything to ensure that the alternatives will be properly developed so that they can be evaluated. There are certainly no law changes being proposed to make it easier, for example, for new gas finds to be used as a direct fuel, and to be taken to Auckland through the gas pipelines, rather than being wasted and turned into electricity at 50 percent efficiency, or less, which requires new transmission lines to get it up to Auckland. No legislation is being proposed to make it easier to get a coordinated programme of energy efficiency implemented across Auckland\u2019s commercial buildings, where so much electricity is wasted at the moment and could be saved at much less cost than generating it. There is no special legislation, or other Government favours, being proposed to enable better metering and load management in order to send the right pricing signals in Auckland about the time of day of electricity use. There is a lot of technical stuff that one can do with the lines that will reduce that peak loading on the grid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThere is no special legislation, or other provisions, being put forward by this Government to make it easier to use wood waste in Northland as a fuel for forestry product processing, which would reduce the amount of power that had to be brought to Auckland. All those alternatives are clearly possible and cost-effective, but all the effort is going into making sure that it is easy for the pylons to be built, because that is what Transpower New Zealand wants to do. It is extremely unfortunate that when we have planning that is designed to facilitate a particular way out of some problems we have, such as power demand in Auckland, we are facilitating only one approach to the problem\u2014actually the most destructive and unpopular approach\u2014rather than facilitating the alternatives that could have solved the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u00220c318cca891f4979ab96db07a723115f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c318cca891f4979ab96db07a723115f\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I will make a few comments on Part 2, which deals with the amendments to the electricity legislation. It has been amazing to hear some of the claims about this very small part of the legislation. I have had people in my office who have told me that this is the Government\u2019s sneaky way of making provision for Transpower to do its work all through the Waikato, and so on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThere is a very simple amendment to allow for transmission lines, which are above the currently allowed-for capacity, to go over roads\u2014not to go through farms and everywhere else, but to go across roads. We had representation from our advisers to the Local Government and Environment Committee. They were with us very briefly because there was so little to discuss about the legislation. We did make some changes, because some things came up in submissions that made it clear that not everything had been thought about, and they have now been resolved adequately, I believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EUnited Future is happy to support this part, because it simply means we will have fewer difficulties later on. If consent is given for transmission power lines to go wherever, when they come to roads they will now not have to go through a whole lot of unnecessary processes just to get across the carriageway of the road. So United Future is very happy with the amendment, and we will support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227431b5fd1e2e4f85a369c8d45ab79448\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c691bd6ca97493ea40042c86c4b16be\u0022\u003ESchedules\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000602\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope to schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e90b6aa563de4b69bc819a71966b38d2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002297b6fb41df3a460eace8ff0c247bf625\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000603\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope to schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221eef6972663c41ddaffbb65deec72449\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002210bb1acc8ec04c8093f554f8b1ab874e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That schedule 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022221e82649cc347e3ad2b09e277fee9a1\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002200b077e0e0924d6da0c53daf7b5e7878\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200b077e0e0924d6da0c53daf7b5e7878\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It will be helpful at this time in the debate to recite the sorry history of this Government\u2019s approach to resource management law. Six years ago Labour\u2019s very first act as a Government was to kill off a very constructive bill, Simon Upton\u2019s Resource Management Amendment Bill. At that time, Labour Ministers said that the Resource Management Act was all honky-dory, that it was beautifully crafted and beautifully written, and that things were all just going very well. Well, is it not interesting that in the very last act of this dying, rotten Government, it has to revisit the cock-ups it made 6 years ago? In fact, it is interesting to note that over 12 of the changes in this bill are straight out of the amendments proposed by Simon Upton over 6 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI have been waiting patiently to hear a Government Minister get to his or her feet and apologise for stuffing things up, and admit the Government got things wrong, put people to extra costs, stopped roads from being built to deal with congestion, and stopped power stations being built. I have been waiting to hear a Minister say the Government has added millions of dollars of cost to people, and that he or she is sorry it got things wrong. But no, this arrogant Government does not know the word \u201Csorry\u201D. Its members will use whatever trick they like in order to try to avoid scrutiny of their mistakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to note, for instance, that the big change that the Minister in the chair, David Benson-Pope, promised in this bill was to get rid of de novo hearings in the Environment Court, and everybody said that he had got that wrong. Even in February the Minister in the chair was saying no, he had got that right, and it would work really well. But that provision has disappeared. He has had to concede that his most important reform in this bill was a dog and, appropriately, it has gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhat is really worrying is the lost opportunity with regard to this bill. Every New Zealander knows that a shambles is going on in respect of M\u0101ori consultation and the Resource Management Act, but we hope that a Government will be able to see through that. We hope that a Government will be able to cut through that nonsense and let New Zealanders get on with creating the wealth, the jobs, and the infrastructure needed for our country to go forward. [Interruption] But the sad reality, I tell Mr Cosgrove, is that we will still have the Environment Court chasing the home of the taniwha, because of the PC brigade like that member of the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E I was driving through Waimakariri last week, and what is really interesting about Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s hoardings was that there was no mention of the Labour Party. The Labour Party just was not there. I can remember that; I can believe that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8666a9165e4f0b88d05681559dbe7d\u0022\u003EClayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f557519dd7f4a8a8bf60b88bb33ac06\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Did I not take my microscope? Does one need a telescope to be able to find the tiny little Labour logo on his hoardings? I do not blame Clayton Cosgrove. If I was a member of the Labour Party, I would be deeply embarrassed at the mess-up that Labour has made in respect of the Act. This bill will just make the problems of cost, uncertainty, and delays with the Act worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut there is good news. The good news is that help is on the way. In a few weeks\u2019 time New Zealanders will reject this rotten, decaying Government and employ people with the wherewithal to get on and make the changes that are needed, so that we can fix the transport problems in Auckland, provide security of electricity for our homes and businesses, and let farmers get on with creating wealth for this country, without the politically correct nonsense that Labour would impose on them. The reform of the Act is absolutely critical to New Zealand\u2019s well-being. We, more than any other country, depend on the smart use of our resources to create wealth. We want to be able to provide the sorts of changes that will make New Zealand prosper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb33e9aea4b9448790251f2c395f656f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb33e9aea4b9448790251f2c395f656f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to respond to some of that nonsense, because it really encapsulates the difference between what the Government has carefully done over the period since 1999 and the extraordinary contradictions we are already seeing in what National would offer to our community. I was a city councillor in Dunedin during the time of the last National Government, and I recall only too well the appalling \u201Cwe know best\u201D attitude that was shown by Dr Smith and his National Party colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500d33aeaed647c3a30c41d34f0949da\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How much did rates go up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a51bc59c53864390b7e16268964a5900\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I can recall that Dr Smith was part of the Government, part of the executive indeed, that made the council and the community of which I was a part sell the Waipori power station. Dr Smith should not talk to me, or the Dunedin community, about talking to people. We have seen the same arrogant, unconsultative behaviour in terms of the development of the National Party\u2019s policy. Labour inherited a shambles with the Environment Court in 1999, because of Dr Smith\u2019s incompetence. Since that time we have resourced the Environment Court. It has reduced its backlog by 50 percent since 2000, and currently it mediates 80 percent of cases. We have put in new judges to cope with the workload that the court could not cope with because that member and his incompetent colleagues did not resource it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EOne of the most satisfying things, as part of this process, is the way we have worked with local government\u2014a way that Local Government New Zealand describes as an exemplary collaborative exercise. Is it any wonder that that level of cooperation could not be achieved with our predecessor in Government, National, because it was making cities sell power stations, and was even embarking on a lunatic proposal to privatise our roads? That member cannot talk to me or my community about working with people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe most telling comments I can contribute to the debate are not my words, but come from two articles that were in papers in this country in the last 3 or 4 days. The first comments come from an article by a senior planner in Auckland, who is writing on behalf of the Environmental Defence Society. I will read just a few comments from that article: \u201CThe National Party\u2019s policy proposals to \u2018rebalance\u2019 the Resource Management Act are a direct attack on people\u2019s rights to have a say on what happens to their environment\u2026 That provision removes significant rights of people to protect their property interests and the environment. It is backward move\u2026 This is because National proposes to abolish legal aid for RMA cases, so there will be no financial support available for those without financial means\u2026 So what will be the result of these provisions if they are implemented? They will mean poorer quality decision-making, greater degradation of our environment, more procedural litigation and huge frustration in the wider community at the new system. This is in no one\u2019s interests apart from second-rate developers who will be able to get their proposals approved more easily.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923001e0d2014471b35ea4dad865f56c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What did Business New Zealand say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5f7aaa86b0e430ebf60c0a10310a040\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what did Business New Zealand say? I am afraid that Dr Smith has walked into that one, because the Business Council for Sustainable Development has written to me and said that it got six out of the eight things it approached us for. While Dr Smith is accusing Labour of bribing people, I can tell him that we do not bribe the editorial writers of the Otago Daily Times. I will repeat for him comments from the document I tabled yesterday. The editorial from last Friday\u2019s Otago Daily Times states: \u201CThe Government wants faster decision-making for resource consents, more power for local councils to work with developers to speed things along, and national guidelines to avoid the conflicting standards between regions. National wants to go much further\u2014too far, in fact \u2026 Under National\u2019s proposals, we very much doubt whether, for example, the campaigns which succeeded in Lake Manapouri being saved from destruction, or Aramoana from smelter construction, would have been more than pipe-dreams. National\u2019s proposals \u2026 are a bare-faced attempt to erase basic rights of dissent, while its measures intended to diminish the rights of local government in resource consent matters would actually extinguish a basic premise of the Act, which is that communities most affected by applications should have the principal say in decision-making.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbf9549784bf4687a5fc2475f2434ba6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Just your mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f5c0e8cb5e446baa54384389d2764e6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: That member cannot talk to me and the Government about mates when he is advocating a \u201Cchequebook wins\u201D policy in resource consent applications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u002252f965341e3f4a269cf41bd9f62c2fd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252f965341e3f4a269cf41bd9f62c2fd6\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The leader of New Zealand First often refers to \u201Ctwo tired old parties\u201D. That exchange, first of all by Dr Nick Smith and then the response from the Minister, brings every use of that phrase to mind. I have been familiar with this Act since it was passed in 1991. When I hear Dr Smith making those very passionate comments, I think of the period between 1991 to 1999, when I saw one guiding step from the Government\u2014namely, a coastal policy statement. Not one other item of real guidance went to councils throughout the country, who basically had to find their way through the planning stages from 1991 to 1999. It is no wonder, therefore, that many councils, although they are sympathetic to the present suggestions in this bill, are also very well aware, as I have already mentioned, of the high cost in terms of funding, staffing time, and, even more important, the community input that produced their plans. As has already been said, although the councils have been, under the auspices of Local Government New Zealand, generally sympathetic to this bill, in other ways they have reservations about how it will impact on the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EFor a Government that has prided itself, as it did during the passing of the Local Government Act 2002, on a high level of advocacy with regard to consultation, and that has talked about expanding the role of councils\u2014I believe unwisely\u2014so that they are now all things to all people, at a high cost to their ratepayers, to now come to the Chamber and suggest that it has adopted a different path, is rather unseemly. I too recall coming to this Chamber in 2002 and seeing a truncated attempt by the present Government with regard to the reforms advocated by Simon Upton. It was very, very strange, as I observed in the first reading debate, to come back and see how many of those ideas are inherent in this bill, but never acknowledged. Instead, we still have no real acknowledgment of much of the genesis of the ideas that are being expressed in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EI know that many councils are friendly toward this bill and the suggested changes. They have yet to see the real teeth with regard to policy statements and national standards, which I have no doubt will be superimposed on what I have already stated as being a command and control approach to these matters. I would have hoped that for once in the course of this debate there would be a reasonable explanation by the Minister in the chair, David Benson-Pope, as to what the Government\u2019s intention really was in bringing this bill into the House. I see it as being not much different from that envisaged by Simon Upton in 1999. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EI say on behalf of New Zealand First that we do not support this bill. We recognise again the excellent work done by the Local Government and Environment Committee and the people who were involved in advising it, but this bill is not the answer. The time for change is yet ahead, and I look forward to being part of that process after the next election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u00220f85a5a009a74d979231e99052b8ffcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f85a5a009a74d979231e99052b8ffcc\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is unusual for clause 2 of a bill, the clause that sets the date on which certain provisions will come into force, to be as significant as clause 2 of this bill. I want to talk about the significance of this clause 2. It relates to clauses 82 and 83 in Part 1, which deal with an idea introduced in 1999 by the Rt Hon Simon Upton. The idea was that it should be possible to seek a declaration from the Environment Court on whether a matter should have been notified by a council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Resource Management Act is very clear on the question of notification. It makes it clear that an application must be notified, unless the effects on the environment are minor. Even if the effects are minor, the application must still be notified if persons affected have not given their consent. The Supreme Court, in a very useful judgment just recently, made it clear that that minor effects test is the overriding one, and that if the effects are not minor one does not even go so far as to ask who might have to give consent; the public must have an opportunity to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ECouncils for some years have been taking a very strange view of \u201Cminor effects\u201D. A number of projects have been declared to have minor effects, and have therefore not been notified\u2014projects like big open-cast coalmines, coastal landfills, 13-storey buildings right next door to people who did not even know those buildings were going up, and the clearance of very significant areas of native forest. There has been increasing concern that the test of \u201Cminor effects\u201D has been interpreted extremely liberally, and that people who should have been notified about a project have known nothing about it\u2014but there has been no real redress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ETo challenge those notification decisions, people have had to go to the High Court for judicial review of council decisions. Not only is that very expensive\u2014most community groups cannot afford it\u2014but it is also unlikely that the High Court would be able to issue any redress, even if it found that challengers were right. So the cases that have been taken to the High Court for judicial review have tended to be cases of wealthy businesses reviewing decisions on the applications of other wealthy businesses, rather than those concerning community groups and individuals, who have been shut out of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESimon Upton proposed that instead of the High Court, the Environment Court was the court that should be able to consider whether notification decisions had been made in error. The Environment Court is used to considering environmental issues. It is familiar with the minor effects test, and it is accessible to people who cannot pay $20,000 first up before they even hire a lawyer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Greens strongly supported that provision of Simon Upton\u2019s bill\u2014unlike most of the other provisions, which we managed to knock out at the select committee stage. The select committee agreed to support that part of the bill, as well. But the bill came back to the House, sat here for 2 years, then that clause was taken out by the Labour Government in a Supplementary Order Paper to an earlier amendment to the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe provision is now back, in clauses 82 and 83 of this bill. The Local Government and Environment Committee added to it and gave the Environment Court powers to offer redress in situations where the public had been excluded, wrongly, from commenting on an application. But it is a pyrrhic victory, because clauses 82 and 83 will never come into force unless Cabinet chooses to pass an Order in Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThat is the same trick Jim Bolger played on Winston Peters over the Overseas Investment Act. Mr Peters\u2019 amendments were passed into law, and he did not notice until the time of the next Government\u2014when the Greens pointed it out to him\u2014that, in fact, his amendments had not come into force at all, but were waiting on an Order in Council as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThat did not happen this time. I read the bill from the beginning, looked up the references in clause 2, and knew immediately where the Government was coming from. The Government argues that it is necessary to delay the coming into effect of those clauses because the Environment Court is too busy to hear such cases. It has promised that when the Environment Court is less busy, then that Order in Council will be passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWell, I am sorry, but I have to point out that the Environment Court is now meeting its deadlines. It is hearing cases within the time frame that has been set for hearing cases. In fact, in some cases it is offering a hearing date before the applicant is even ready to proceed, and the applicant is asking for a delay. A great deal has been done\u2014and I have to give Labour credit for that\u2014since the Labour Government came to power, to speed up processes in the Environment Court, by creating a new division, more resourcing, another judge, and so forth. That court is never likely to be less busy than it is now, so this is clearly just a tactic to make sure that that clause never comes into effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Greens are not to be duped like that; we are not like Winston Peters. We do read the legislation, and we were aware right from the beginning that this was happening. I want to place on record our very great disappointment and concern that a good proposal like this has been put on indefinite hold by the Labour Government. But I also have to express my disgust at Simon Upton\u2019s erstwhile colleagues in the National Party. After lauding all the things in his 1999 Resource Management Act Amendment Bill they are now totally opposed to this legislation, because it would give members of the public a real opportunity to exercise some control over councils that sometimes get just too close to developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u00228ae0e2aaf70143eba5d05581151354a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ae0e2aaf70143eba5d05581151354a5\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Before we move on to speeches on the third reading, I would like to make just a few comments in response to Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2019 very clear description of what is taking place within this bill in terms of amendments to allow for appeals on notification to go to the Environment Court. I think she explained the situation very well, in that while this bill does allow for those appeals to take place, it is unlikely they will ever occur in the future. I think that that is United Future\u2019s position. We would probably rather see the Order in Council for appeals to transfer to the Environment Court never materialise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EToday I reviewed United Future\u2019s position on this matter, going right back to October 2002 when I made a speech concerning the Resource Management (Controlled and Discretionary Activities) Amendment Bill, a member\u2019s bill of Owen Jennings, and when we first committed to reform within the Resource Management Act. I made it very clear that United Future\u2019s position was that we did not want to see the removal of appeals from the High Court. In fact, as I looked, I found that it was the Government of the day that removed that provision from the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No. 2), so it was certainly not keen to see that happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EIn this bill we really do have a great compromise between United Future\u2019s position and the Labour Government\u2019s position, as has happened on many occasions\u2014unfortunately, not on some of the occasions when we would have liked to see it happen. Certainly, in this case we are pleased with the arrangement in this bill\u2014where we have provision for the change to occur but a recognition that it is probably not in the best interests of the overall process for the Environment Court to have to deal with those issues\u2014and we look forward now to the final passage of this bill through its third reading and into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022 data-id=\u00225ca8f4a52eeb4dac9692f7c19977df98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ca8f4a52eeb4dac9692f7c19977df98\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E As other speakers have said, this bill, and the time that Parliament is spending on it, have given an opportunity to try to fix something that many, many New Zealanders have been begging to have fixed for a long time. It has also been an opportunity to fix something that a huge number of New Zealanders\u2014probably the vast majority of New Zealanders\u2014do not even know is making their lives a misery. They are New Zealanders like the Grey Power members who are busy demanding that the Government renationalise power generation. They are people like those sitting in traffic jams right now, as traffic starts to build up in Auckland, and wondering why it is so hard to get what seem to them to be common-sense requirements to break the logjam in Auckland roading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThis bill, or what it should have been reforming, is affecting the people who are trying to meet their water rates, in places where there are water rates. It is affecting people who are struggling, and wondering how they can ever buy a house on their income when land prices have gone to a multiple of three or four times the average wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThis bill does not touch on the basic problem that the Resource Management Act created. The Act\u2019s intention may have been well meaning, but for years people have clung to the idea that all that was wrong with it was its silly administrators\u2014that all that was needed to do was to tell the bozos in local authorities that they should not misuse its provisions. I have heard it said so often that there is nothing wrong with the Resource Management Act except that it is badly run. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EBut the Resource Management Act is fatally flawed, and this bill simply eliminates a small part of the difficulty for Government in relation to infrastructure. It eliminates some of the worst irritants, particularly for those major developers who will be able to afford to attract the attention needed to get their developments called in under this legislation, but it leaves irritants in place where the Act most needs reform\u2014that is, for the everyday developers, who are probably individuals maybe once or twice in their lifetimes needing to make some change in their land use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThis bill should have been absolutely panned by every M\u0101ori member of this Parliament, because it simply confirms that the Government regards article 2 of the treaty as an empty nonsense. The bill continues to entice M\u0101ori into using their iwi consultation rights, when the very existence of those rights is a denial of the undisturbed use, possession, and power to control the use and disposition of land that article 2 promised them. Instead of M\u0101ori being here to ask for the legislation to be repealed, and to ask for the property rights they were promised to be restored, they have been suborned into being part of the process of attacking everyone else\u2019s property rights. M\u0101ori have been gulled into being part of the process by which busybodies and newly-minted planners impose their ideas of how property should be used, on the people who actually wear the costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EIf this bill had been doing what it should have been doing, we would have seen house prices falling as sections became available, without the imposition of years and years of delay, and years of complaint from people who want the status quo. The absolutely natural tendency of humans is to want the status quo all around them, but also to have the freedom to do what they wish on their own property. The whole idea of property rights promised in the treaty was that within one\u2019s boundaries one could do what one wished, even if the authorities did not like one\u2019s disturbance of the status quo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EWhat New Zealand has done with the Resource Management Act is to re-communalise property decisions, and we are paying an enormous price for it. We are paying for it with our risks of electricity shortage, and we are paying for it in our roading paralysis. My executive secretary 35 years ago was buying the land to complete the Auckland roading network. He looks at it now and sees that the roads are still not built. That is not just because of political paralysis; it is because of the absolute despair that people feel when they know they will have to go through this palaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EI heard from someone working in the authority responsible for fixing up that death-dealing road between Hamilton and Auckland that the authority did not dare build a new bridge, because officials could not stand the thought of the consultation processes they would have to go through in order to build it. It was considered to be far better to build wings on the existing bridge\u2014but less safe, less long-lasting, with less capacity, with millions more in costs, and with more disruption while being built\u2014than to go through the hassle of having to apply to build a new bridge, which would have gone alongside the old bridge. The Government should be absolutely ashamed that it has not moved to make that sort of outcome impossible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003ESure, Supplementary Order Paper 389 is now doing the sensible thing of involving iwi consultation\u2014at the risk of mysterious taniwha being discovered\u2014and restricting it to the planning stage. But, of course, plans can be changed\u2014and need to be changed frequently\u2014so we will not see an end to that little irritant in the relationship between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, this bill is a huge missed opportunity. There are sensible things in it but what has been missed out is of much greater importance, so ACT will be obliged to vote against this part of the bill in order to mark what has been lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad468f941c9c4b41a8fa6f376088b7f4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000650\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225fee8be61c8048628a62fce9c351f08b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228efb09bc344e4316951909319d3f8704\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002219f52fab14b5447c9cedc74eeb69dadf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219f52fab14b5447c9cedc74eeb69dadf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for the Environment: I move, That the Committee divide the bill into the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 5) and the Electricity Amendment Bill (No 3), pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 388.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002206cd67890d444de29dfb30141e8c4a66\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000652\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000653\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223cc1efedca6b43b2927bf7e6dcaeae3a\u0022\u003EResource Management Amendment Bill (No 5)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223cc1efedca6b43b2927bf7e6dcaeae3a\u0022\u003EElectricity Amendment Bill (No 3)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc90cae9a0e1411389db730e00597291\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002299fcb943149a49499c8816f1cde38c1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299fcb943149a49499c8816f1cde38c1d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for the Environment: I move, That the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 5) and the Electricity Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a third time. Labour is committed to a clean and healthy environment, and to giving people a say in environmental decision-making. Protecting our environment is a strategic investment in New Zealand\u2019s future. The Resource Management Act is about striking the right balance between using our environment and protecting it for future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThere are those who have signalled their intention to gut the Resource Management Act. They want to tilt the playing field so that development will win out over the legitimate concerns of communities. I think most New Zealanders would regard that as incredibly short-sighted, and would be most concerned. New Zealanders in major surveys consistently rate quality of life much higher than economic drivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI wish to affirm today the belief that the Resource Management Act can be improved. However, those improvements are not to be found in changing the sound, fundamental principles of the Act, but in listening and responding to the genuine concerns of those who use the Act. The Government\u2019s view of the Resource Management Act, after 18 months of consultation, has highlighted concerns associated with delays, costs, inconsistency, and a lack of national leadership since 1991. The solutions contained in this legislation relate to those very real problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThere are people who are trying to put up phantoms, distortions, and out and out lies in their bid to rip the Resource Management Act apart. They would have us believe that we have had no new roads and no new power infrastructure and, in fact, that all projects requiring any sort of resource consent have had to be cancelled. Of course, that is just nonsense. Attacks of that kind are big on slogans but very short on facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EIn recent times the New Zealand economy has grown 3.5 percent against an OECD average of 2.2 percent. In fact, growth has been significantly higher in New Zealand compared with most other OECD members for a number of years now. In excess of 49,000 resource consents are issued by local government each year, and 95 percent of them are considered minor and non-notified. Fewer than 1 percent of consent applications are declined each year. A comparison of environmental compliance costs internationally shows that New Zealand is a better place in which to be doing business than many of our competitor nations, including Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand system of environmental management places huge responsibilities on local government\u2014more so than anywhere else in the world. The amendments proposed in this legislation tackle decision making at all levels. Local authorities and the Environment Court have made huge improvements in implementing the Resource Management Act since its inception in 1991. Due to increased funding and new case-management systems, the backlog in the Environment Court has been slashed by 50 percent since 2001. Those who have been dealing with the Environment Court know that cases get attention within weeks now, not years as it used to be. The court now puts pressure on parties to mediate or progress cases as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe legislation builds on those improvements by introducing accreditation for hearing consents and by requiring local decision makers to set out the matters that inform their decisions. Councils will be given more tools to conduct robust hearings. Decision makers will need to be accredited, and when they have achieved that accreditation they will have new powers to deal with vexatious submitters. I am delighted to inform the House that nearly 600 local government elected members have already committed to and completed the training process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe legislation introduces a series of timely, sensible, and well-thought-out improvements to the workings of the Resource Management Act. It provides greater certainty and efficiency in the way the Act operates while not sacrificing protection for the environment. It will enable the Resource Management Act to work even better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThis legislation is about achieving the right balance between national and local interests. The Government recognises that local authorities are increasingly being asked to consider projects that raise issues of national significance. The current policy environment provides little guidance on balancing local and national interests. This legislation provides a new way for councils and Government to work together when matters have more than local implications\u2014when they raise issues of national significance. The legislation implements policy developed by Local Government New Zealand to give the Minister for the Environment more tools to deal with matters that need to be decided at a national level, or with assistance from central government. Those tools will be exercised only after consultation with the relevant local authorities. The Minister has also been granted new powers to investigate local authority performance, to make recommendations, and to direct local authorities to prepare plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to greater central government leadership in the Resource Management Act. It has already adopted 14 national environmental standards, and the Ministry for the Environment is currently scoping a further five national environmental standards and three national policy statements. Changes in the legislation will facilitate both the development of national policy statements and the implementation of national environmental standards. The legislation is a reinforcement that national standards should be able to set clear and consistent environmental bottom lines without allowing significant adverse effects on the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe legislation also supports local policy formation and makes improvements to its design and process. It reaffirms the local authority\u2019s role in setting local policy. It elevates the status of regional policy statements, and thereby promotes integrated regional planning. The Government has placed emphasis on working with local government and communities, and this legislation focuses on empowering councils so that they have the skills and the resources needed to implement improvements to the Resource Management Act process. We can, and do, as a nation need economic growth, but in such a way that it does not ride roughshod over communities or the clean air, water, and soil guaranteed and necessary for generations to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe Resource Management Act is a good one. We want to make it work even better for all New Zealanders. I am pleased to commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022a11802fdd177493b881a9a2d0f721aca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a11802fdd177493b881a9a2d0f721aca\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E That was a fitting valedictory speech from the Associate Minister for the Environment for the mess that he made of one of New Zealand\u2019s most important statutes. One need look only at the traffic congestion problem in Auckland or at the concern in every one of our daily newspapers about the security of electricity supply, and one needs only to read the magazines of small business and farmers to understand that this Government has made a complete hash of the Resource Management Act. Six years ago, when Labour came into Government, it rejected a very important bill to reform that Act. It said, in the words of Marian Hobbs, that the Act was beautifully written, was beautifully crafted, and was not in need of any change. That, in fact, was the policy of the Government for that 3-year period. I notice the Minister is running to hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30d08a8ac8d421dadbc96d416a6c0d6\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eedfa2cab24e4a73b0d5cca3c5ef63b0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he is. I tell the Minister that he is an embarrassment in terms of the way in which he has treated the House in respect of this amendment legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe great irony is this. Labour has put out repeated press statements, stating that National is going to take away the rights of people to be able to be consulted and have a say in decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba1ff18d3d04f4b848e09ef3c46dffa\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b01a10d83be4b6b9f8fa221d413b33f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member who has chipped in explain this to me: why did the Government, this morning, introduce Supplementary Order Paper 389 in the name of the Hon David Benson-Pope, which included 45 pages of changes? Today the Government introduced and passed 140 clauses. The silence is deafening. This Government says we should do as it says, not as it does. If the Government wants to change the law, it puts forward a bill, rams it through Parliament, and tells everybody else to get lost. But a council, a farmer, or a small-business person will have to consult for months\u2014for years\u2014before being able to make any of the important resource management decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe Minister says we are brewing up and exaggerating the problems with regard to the Act. Well, let me give members some information about the Government\u2019s own reports on it. In 2002 the Government commissioned a compliance cost report, with all its cronies\u2014all its people\u2014on the committee. They came back and said that the No. 1 concern in respect of compliance costs in New Zealand was the Act. Then we had the IMD study, which was an international study that ranked countries in terms of their competitiveness. Overall, New Zealand went down under this Labour Government. That is not a surprise, but what was surprising was the fact that in the area of environmental lawmaking New Zealand ranked bottom\u2014No. 60 out of 60. If that is not a message for reform, I do not know what would be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EOne of the really important industries for New Zealand is our forest industry. We have a wall of wood that is coming on, and I do not know any New Zealander who does not want to see that timber processed and have value added to it in New Zealand, rather than be exported as logs. What is interesting is that we have a greater forestry industry our near neighbour, Australia. Right now Australia has 21 new major timber mills being built, and in New Zealand we have none. If we were losing an All Blacks game to the Aussies by that sort of margin, there would be nationwide uproar, yet that is what is occurring in one of our most important industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI will give some good, practical examples of what occurs. Transit New Zealand, which is given the job of building the roads, told a parliamentary select committee that it now takes 7 years, on average, to get a consent for a new highway. Can we wait 7 years to fix the traffic problems that are affecting cities like Auckland, Tauranga, Hamilton, Nelson, and Wellington? Of course we cannot. I also have some little examples. A boating club in Auckland wanted to put in a boat ramp. It cost the club $160,000 to get consent for a boat ramp that cost $35,000. The stories go on and on, and this Government does not understand what is occurring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen we have the issue of the speedway. It is just an example, but it really does bring home the attitude of this Government. Fifty-thousand people signed a petition to try to ensure the survival of the Western Springs Speedway, but the Government chose to give $28,000 to 34 residents, every one of whom had moved in and bought a house after the speedway was there, and in January the residents, using taxpayers\u2019 money, successfully shut down the speedway. Now the Auckland City Council, unanimously\u2014the councillors are Labour members; hard-left members\u2014wants to have the power to be able to change the council\u2019s district plan. Under this Government legislation, that will take 3 years. The Western Springs Speedway will be well and truly dead and buried in 3 years, so during the Committee stage I put forward a very simple amendment. It simply stated that we would empower the Auckland City Council, and every other council in New Zealand, to be able to make a change to its plan with effect straight away, if it so wished. It was designed to empower councils. The interesting thing was that not one Labour member got to his or her feet and explained why he or she opposed that amendment. Effectively, today the Green Party and the Labour Party have killed the Western Springs Speedway. I acknowledge New Zealand First, United Future, and ACT for supporting that amendment, but I would love to hear from a Labour member as to why Labour does not trust councils to have discretion in respect of those plan changes, rather than automatically applying the most stringent provision to them. It does not make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen we have the Government\u2019s approach to try to clog up the Environment Court. This legislation provides that every single little one of the 50,000 resource consents\u2014and that is far too many\u2014is now able to be appealed to the Environment Court on notification. I have never heard of such a dopey idea. Yet that is what we have put in the law, and it will make the delays, the uncertainties, and the blackmail that occur under the Act even worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EEvery person in this Parliament would know that the most important speech that has been given in the term of this Parliament was the brave speech made by Don Brash at \u014Crewa in respect of how we deal with relations between different sorts of New Zealanders. Don Brash said that all New Zealanders should be treated equally in the law. But in this legislation we have a continuation of the situation, and that will make it even worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022952bb5df30b743f8b4ba97cb9c352ef2\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us what that means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19a0986c1d54c14809c104fffabf99a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member Jill Pettis, the retiring member for Whanganui, asks me to explain. National says that the Act should be colour-blind. Whether one is a M\u0101ori, an Asian, a Pacific Island, or a P\u0101keh\u0101 New Zealander, one should be treated absolutely equally under the Act\u2014and that provision will be in a bill that we will introduce to this House as a new Government in a few weeks\u2019 time, because that is what New Zealanders want for their future. This legislation from Labour introduces co-management, whatever that is. It will mean that people will have to write out even bigger cheques in order to be able to deal with those who claim that taniwha live in the neighbourhood, when one wants to build a road or something of that sort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn no area of policy has National been as explicit as in outlining the 22 changes that it would make to the Resource Management Act. National wants to have high environmental standards. We want to make sure that this country uses its resources wisely, but we want to end the gravy train, the waste, the costs, and the uncertainty that has grown around the Act. This legislation is a big disappointment. It is noteworthy that the single most significant change\u2014as said by the Minister himself\u2014in this legislation has subsequently been rejected. This legislation is a dog. It takes us nowhere. I know that the people of New Zealand are looking forward to having a Government that does know how to fix the Act and ensure that New Zealand has a clean environment and a prosperous economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00224ef3f38ea04a4112b5c8c5f360cc272f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ef3f38ea04a4112b5c8c5f360cc272f\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER (Labour\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E After listening to that last member, one would think that even the present Resource Management Act has stopped any progress on the development of new electricity generation facilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff9301205dd44183ba9a00d3fbc99abe\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226886b0224506458f9a49a3743473247a\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let me give members a list of some of the things that have recently been approved under the Resource Management Act without undue delay. There was the re-consenting of schemes on the Waitaki River and the Clutha River in my area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91f3111a01140e8b93ef006cf60d8ff\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Those are old schemes. They\u2019re not new.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290fe70d62e6a4eefa006e147bc147222\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is quite right. They account for more than a third of New Zealand\u2019s power output, but they are old schemes and they have been re-consented. What about new schemes? I will give the member a list. There was the extension of Manap\u014Duri power station. Improvements to that scheme\u2014actually in the middle of a national park\u2014gained resource consent under the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223386bf38c5ef4140b46c669c104b231e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That was under National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e2a4a10fd1c413687155abc08ae17c3\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry, I say to Dr Smith, but the Manapouri scheme has just been completed within the last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d2c095f2c7d48559001bd1bdb6d88fa\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The resource consent was under National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec2fd89a41141a494e9661b9773cffd\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, zip up! The Te \u0100piti wind farm near Palmerston North was granted resource consent under the Resource Management Act, and extensions to Te Apiti were consented under the Resource Management Act. Gas and coal-fired plants in the central North Island were consented under the Resource Management Act, and the oil-fired backup facility at Whirinaki was consented under the Resource Management Act. So it is not as dire as Dr Smith would have members believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is true that there were very considerable delays in appeals being heard in the Environment Court, and that provided fertile ground for stand-over tactics by unreasonable objectors. I agree that that was a problem. That was a problem when National had conduct of the Resource Management Act. Appeal periods were normally around 2 years. There was a 2-year period in which people had to wait before they could get a decision from the Environment Court on their appeal. So at times people were persuaded that to avoid 2 years\u2019 delay they should come to a compromise with objectors on terms. There were some stand-over tactics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe have remedied that. The simple remedy was to bring appeal periods down to a more reasonable period. Now the norm is 6 months, rather than 2 years or more. Most of those blackmail tactics have already dropped out of the system. We have gone further in this bill. We have made it clear that no applicant has to consult anyone prior to making his or her application and having that application heard, and that is the way the law should be. So in this bill we have fixed the extent to which there was a grey area as to whether some groups\u2014in particular, M\u0101ori groups\u2014had to be consulted prior to an application being made. But members would not believe that, if they were listening to Dr Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn relation to requests for information, one of the complaints we have had from some groups is that requests for information can be made ad nauseam by councils, and sometimes those requests are unreasonable. Of course, some of the accusations that the council\u2019s requests are unreasonable are, themselves, wrong, and reasonable requests from councils for further information as to adverse environmental effects have been wrongly refused by applicants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHow does central government deal with that in a fair way? The solution this bill comes up with is quite good. It states that if an applicant is asked for further information, the applicant can call the bluff of the council and say no, and proceed to a hearing. The council then can either grant the consent, or it can turn it down on the grounds that it needed that further information and the applicant would not provide it. The applicants or objectors can then appeal against the decision to the Environment Court if they are dissatisfied with that decision. But if the Environment Court finds that the information requested by the council, and refused by the applicant, was, in fact, properly requested, then the Environment Court has to turn down the appeal and it goes back to the start. That is quite a nice way of managing the tension so that applicants cannot be unreasonably forced to provide additional information, but councils can turn down applicants who refuse to comply with reasonable requests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI turn also to a question raised by Dr Smith about trees not being logged in New Zealand at the moment. The main reason trees are not being logged in the volumes that might have been contemplated a decade ago, is that prices are very low, and landowners, or tree owners\u2014if they just own the trees on the land\u2014are taking a rational, economic decision to leave their trees in the ground where they continue to grow, while they wait for prices in forestry to recover. Given the cyclical nature of the timber industry those prices are expected to increase again in the future, and at that time the tree owners will log and process their trees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI refer also to the question of appeals. It is true that in the initial draft of the bill that came to the select committee some pretty radical surgery was proposed to appeal rights\u2014that is, to limit appeals to a rehearing on the evidence that had been given in the council hearing, with some limited exceptions for additional evidence to be given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAt the start of that process I was in favour of that as a suggestion. But I was wrong. What I am pleased about is that it flushed out the somewhat irrational criticism we had heard at times of the Resource Management Act. The vast bulk of submitters to the select committee, be they councils\u2014local or regional authorities\u2014developers, environmental groups, or the Law Society, all said: \u201CHey look, it\u2019s not that bad. Please don\u2019t gut the Resource Management Act of the protections that citizens and the environment need.\u201D They told us that we need to be a bit careful, given that only one in 10 cases\u2014or even fewer than that\u2014does go to appeal. We would not want to load costs on the process for the nine cases that do not go to appeal, just to save costs on the one in 10 cases that did go to appeal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThey pointed out that had we not changed the provisions to the form in which they now appear in the bill today, the effect would have been to create additional formality in all council hearings. Everyone would have had to cross every \u201Ct\u201D and dot every \u201Ci\u201D in the first hearing. As a consequence, initial council hearings would have become more formalised and longer. There would have been more expense of expert evidence, and it would have been more costly for the councils, applicants, and objectors. So cost would have been added in all 10 cases, even though cost savings were being saved only by shortening appeal times on the one case that went to appeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo what did we do about that? The Government came up, through the ministry, with a very neat solution. It said that it was not good enough that at the moment the Environment Court could completely ignore what happened at council. At the moment, under the present law, the Environment Court can absolutely disregard what happened at the council hearing and conduct its de novo hearing on appeal. We said that that was not good enough, if the council had made a reasonable decision. They are people who are empowered to make decisions for their local people, and they should not be overruled unless there is good reason to overrule them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo the proposal that the Government, through the ministry officials, recommended to the select committee, and that the select committee adopted, was that the Environment Court must now have regard to the original decision. It must have regard to the council\u2019s decision. The effect is that for the Environment Court to overrule a council decision it will have to give reasons\u2014and so it should. If the Environment Court does not have good reasons to overturn an original council decision, why should it overturn it? I think that is a very good amendment. This legislation will improve the function of the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI make one further reference. I am very comfortable with what is happening on the Waitaki River. It is a very fair process where an independent board of inquiry with considerable expertise, chaired by an Environment Court judge independent of political interference, applies Resource Management Act principles to the writing of a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e10ca11ce1be463e9bf54616d9ce5adb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Do you support the draft?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c53489bfb0d438680c107c52627e0a0\u0022\u003EDAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith asked whether I support the draft plan they produced. I support large parts of it, but of course, it is only a draft. If it were not just a draft, there would not be a need to have a draft, and neither would there be a need to have submissions. Obviously, a draft is not perfect. That is why a draft is produced and that is why there are submissions, so that one can perfect a plan following an inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn my opinion, the criticisms of those independent judicial officers on that board have been reprehensible. The critics have been unprincipled, and the people now on the Opposition benches who say that if they were in central government they would know best and they would overrule a decision of an independent board, really showed the National Party for what it is, and what it has always been. It is \u201Cthink big\u201D, and the Clyde Dam. To hell with principles, just do what is necessary in order to scratch the itch that they need to on the day. This is the response they also give in relation to M\u0101ori issues in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022 data-id=\u00226cb45e8b170e4915bbc601b914398d46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cb45e8b170e4915bbc601b914398d46\u0022\u003EJIM PETERS (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 5) and the Electricity Amendment Bill (No 3). I begin by going back to the policy that we looked at early last year as we thought about the changes that were needed to the Resource Management Act. We noted then that the Act in 1991 was designed to promote sustainability when managing economic development in relation to our resources. But after 13 years we thought last year that the Act required provisions to improve processes and procedures, to reduce compliance costs, to clarify the expectations that people had of the system, and, most of all, to make certain that there was progress, yet protection for our resources. To some degree, I rise to support the fact that much of that is achieved in the legislation before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EBut I do not come to the House as one who thinks the Resource Management Act has never ever worked. In Northland right now, as we speak, there is an application by Mighty River Power for a coal-fired station. The application, by the way, has had a response from the community of 3,200 submissions. A panel was appointed, and it went as far afield as Perth in regard to gaining the skills and expertise needed to hear the application. The joint hearing is on behalf of the Whangarei District Council and the Northland Regional Council. The Minister for the Environment has agreed that the staff have the expertise and the ability to handle such a project. As I said, the hearing is now in progress. No doubt, when the decision is made there will be an appeal to the Environment Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThat is the system that we know; that is the Resource Management Act operating today and working. When I hear the calls I have heard during the course of this debate and elsewhere that the Act is responsible for so much that is not happening, I cringe because it is not the reality. We all know that every major development project in this country, not least the one to develop Transmission Gully or an eastern highway here, requires adequate planning, sequential phasing, and funding, and that the consent process under the Resource Management Act is but one part. The National Party\u2019s stance is to take no responsibility whatsoever. That party was in Government between 1991 and 1999, and it did not undertake any significant, major development in that time, in regard to either land transport or energy, yet it now has the gall to come here and, in speech after speech, express concern about the fact that nothing has been done. That is indicative of what the Rt Hon Winston Peters always says\u2014that National is but a tired old party, somewhat renewed in the past 6 years but not much different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EWhen I think of the present Government\u2019s response to some of these matters at this very late stage, just before the election, when it is trying to cobble together something of a development phase to please some of its recently acquired supporters\u2014no doubt, party funders\u2014again I cringe to think that so much time has been wasted and so much has yet to be achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003ESo far as New Zealand First is concerned, we saw the original bill as an opportunity to catch up on some of the issues we know are inherent in the Act in regard to processes and making decisions. We were surprised, as we have already expressed, at how many of the submitters who came to us, particularly those from councils and the legal profession, were relatively satisfied with the Act, and were looking for major change in regard to the first bill, which we saw back in December of last year. As I have already mentioned, the Local Government and Environment Committee went ahead and took out much of that bill. The final legislation that we are looking at now, despite the late call on the Supplementary Order Paper, is remarkably better than what we saw at the start. We acknowledge that the issue mentioned by other speakers, in relation to increases in staffing and funding for the Environment Court, has had a very good result in terms of reduced time for appeals. That has all been acknowledged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EBut, for New Zealand First\u2019s part, I still find it very interesting that the policy statements and the national standards remain largely undefined. That is a substantial reason why we find it very hard to support this revised and improved legislation. We do not have in it an explanation of what is national interest, nor do we have a clear indication of who should be heard in various matters. As we were told in Hamilton and other places, there does appear to be a belief, in various parts of the legislation, particularly in regard to the supposed vexatious and frivolous submitter, that natural justice ought not to prevail. I have here a comment made by Megarry in 1971: \u201CIt may be that there are some who would decry the importance which the courts attach to the observance of the rules of natural justice. \u2018When something is obvious,\u2019 they may say, \u2018why force everybody to go through the tiresome waste of time involved in framing charges and giving an opportunity to be heard?\u201D\u2014and this is the issue for this bill\u2014\u201CThe result is obvious from the start.\u2019 \u201D For us. we would always hope that there was a part for the battler, the ordinary person in our society, to have an unfettered and unobstructed path in regard to what happens in his or her community. At times, that ability of the ordinary ratepayer, the ordinary citizen, to have that part seems to be almost lost. It is one feature that we found interesting. I agree with the co-leader of the Green Party that the rights that that person has still are not clearly defined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EThe other issue, which I wish to conclude on, is that we have heard much debate in this Chamber about the issues pertaining to M\u0101ori. I reaffirm on behalf of New Zealand First that in the future we would look at removing from the Resource Management Act reference to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, but in no way would that denigrate sections 6 and 7, in Part II. We would expand them, after a fuller discussion of what sustainable development would be. I go back to the fact that we acknowledge absolutely\u2014which other parties do not appear to do\u2014that M\u0101ori in this country authorised, by the Treaty of Waitangi, wholesale European settlement, and that the treaty promised them that they and their possessions would be treated fairly, and that M\u0101ori language, arts, tribal histories, and so on, which have remained different from the European equivalents, would remain. Again, I restate what Dame Anne Salmond said early last year: they exist nowhere else in the world and help define what is special about New Zealand. Any attempt in the Resource Management Act to move away from that position would be one that New Zealand First would not favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EIn this country we have no option except to find common ground. Our task in this Parliament and in the community must be to build a successful country in which people are always able to find a common cause. We should always be mindful in our legislation of our heritage, whether M\u0101ori, P\u0101keh\u0101, or other\u2014all of whom have sought to become members of our country. We should share our pride in our shared heritage with M\u0101ori and others. That should be the mark of any rethinking or redevelopment in regard to Part II. Having said that, I say that we look forward to the opportunity in the future to redevelop and look at Part II. We believe that the concept of sustainable development, with all the values and ethical issues it has, and most of all its emphasis upon the property rights of the occupier and the owner, has been lost in the past in regard to this legislation, and needs to be asserted. We look forward to seeing whether this legislation really works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003EOn behalf of New Zealand First, I am sorry to say that we do not support the legislation going any further but will watch with interest the way that it operates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022 data-id=\u00229531298d01f644c48e76927c21a322c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229531298d01f644c48e76927c21a322c7\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise for the ACT party on the third reading of this legislation and confirm that our vote will be a regretted vote. We will vote against the legislation regretfully because some parts of it are long overdue. But we also will vote against it regretfully because of such a wasted opportunity. We will vote against it because it is a patch, and perhaps it is the kind of patch that makes a very poor vehicle last slightly longer. It is a patch that only just touches on many of the things that are wrong. One of them, which the Hon Jim Peters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3812c53c785408aa72786fc12d2384d\u0022\u003EJim Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884bf88617444753a84551fac82b7dc8\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS\u003C/span\u003E: The member can share his brother\u2019s honours! One of them, which Mr Jim Peters has just talked about, is the fudge that is left, after this legislation, of the position of M\u0101ori under the Resource Management Act. The Rt Hon Winston Peters has made a feature of going around the country declaring his discovery that so-called principles of the treaty do not mean anything\u2014that no one can tell him what they mean. At his recent conference he made a real feature of declaring in ringing terms that he would dump them\u2014he would get rid of them. But he has not told us what theory he does work on. We got a glimmering of it just now from Mr Jim Peters, that it is a theory based on the fact that M\u0101ori were here first and that the treaty was a deal that enabled P\u0101keh\u0101 to settle peacefully in M\u0101ori territory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E But that does not deal with the problem of race privilege under the Resource Management Act. What this legislation does is state that the worst feature of it, namely the consultation processes that have made a misery for so many people, including M\u0101ori who are loathed because of it, will be limited to the planning stage, instead of being on every application for a resource consent. But both Mr Winston Peters and Mr Jim Peters have said that they are not tackling the really big myth, the really big fake, in this whole treaty industry. The big myth is the so-called partnership. The big myth is that the partnership that was invented in the mid-1980s entitles M\u0101ori in perpetuity to some kind of trump card that overcomes electoral democracy, some kind of eternal privilege that means they get a power, which is called consultation, but that delay can often veto, in the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EAll we have heard from the New Zealand First Party is that it will look at developing the role of M\u0101ori, consistent with the original concept in the treaty. Partnership does not appear anywhere. The role of consultative power does not appear anywhere. It was all invented at the same time as the so-called principles. I tell Mr Peters that if we take out the principles, what is left is no better. It is the fake partnership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022075eff2f-7904-4500-8339-3972160a627f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdeebc79c76d48b0bab3315094c2a8b2\u0022\u003EJim Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Justice Cooke stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ee098e2bb84fa5989c002303d2350e\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS\u003C/span\u003E: It is Justice Cooke stuff, exactly. I know that at least Mr Peters is well aware of the problem. But it does not deal with the problems that this legislation leaves in place. For example, who is M\u0101ori, for this purpose? Is it tangata whenua, local iwi? Possibly it is, but the Local Government Act does not say that. The Local Government Act requires that local authorities involve M\u0101ori in decision making, not tangata whenua, not the people whose rohe it is. So what do we do about that? There is nothing in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EIt does not tell us how long this will go on. Will this privilege still pertain to the third generation that has been living in Sydney? Is it a race privilege, or is it some kind of privilege that comes from still living in the area\u2014the kind of respect that any community would want to give to those who have been there for a very long time, and whom one would ask about a land-use proposal because we might assume that they knew a bit more about the area and had a stronger feeling for it than the more recent arrivals? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThat kind of consultation we can understand, but instead, it is cast as a race privilege. It is cast as an inherited aristocratic power\u2014the inherited status of lord of the manor whom the other tenants must approach and obtain consent for the way they use their land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThe real problem with this is that the New Zealand First Party has not identified the essence of the property rights promised by article 2 and the property rights that have been trashed by the Resource Management Act. This legislation does nothing to reinstate full, exclusive, and undisturbed possession\u2014the right to use and enjoyment that was promised in article 2. That has been trashed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThis legislation does everything that Mr Baldock says it will do, which is maintain the communalisation of New Zealanders\u2019 property. Instead of property being a glory to us, instead of property rights protecting every ordinary New Zealander\u2014[Interruption] The rangatiratanga is exactly what it is, I say to Mr Baldock. It is what Gordon Copeland\u2019s bill should do. But why, then, does United Future vote for a Resource Management Act that simply undermines all those rights? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EUnited Future members tell me that their bill to insert property rights back into the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, where they should be, will fix the problems that they are about to vote for in the Resource Management Act. Why not cut out the middle man? Why not face the fact that that bill will vanish with the closing of this Parliament, and there is no right on the part of New Zealand First to insist that it be revived in the new Parliament? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EIn fact, the bill to protect property rights\u2014which was picked up from Owen Jennings of ACT, and I commended Mr Copeland for that\u2014will be gone when this Parliament is dissolved. [Interruption] They dissolve. They are picked up only if the new Parliament decides to pick them up. United Future is counting on the fact that it will have the same pulling power with the new Government. I think it is being pretty hopeful. I think there might be a Green Party that says: \u201CWe don\u2019t think we want that one.\u201D The Green Party trashes property rights. The Green Party will not allow that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003ESo we have a United Future vote for this legislation, but it does not believe in important parts of it; and we have a New Zealand First vote against this legislation, because it has concerns that we did not exactly hear. National and ACT are voting against it, for the simple reason that they are looking after the interests of the New Zealanders whose costs have been elevated, whose power costs have gone up, whose water rates are going up, who are stuck in traffic jams, and the young workers who can see the price of a house moving out of their reach, now that land prices in many areas, because of the obligations imposed on developers, have gone out to three or four times their annual pre-tax income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003ENo wonder so many young New Zealanders are looking at property rights that they cannot cope with! It is not the free market. I say to Mr Baldock that this is the market that is created when a developer takes 4 or 5 years to do a simple subdivision, when everyone\u2019s neighbour is enticed into objecting to try to preserve the status quo, to stop infill housing, to stop anything going over two or three storeys in the centre of a city. Then, at the same time, they are begging for public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EWe can have effective public transport only when we have high-density housing. But we have created a Resource Management Act that means that anyone can say: \u201CI don\u2019t want high density on my neighbour\u2019s land. I don\u2019t want high density until I decide that I too want to sell out and see it.\u201D We have a completely constipated property market, because of the Resource Management Act. We have constipated traffic in Auckland. They have money and land, but they cannot get permission to put the bulldozers in and build the roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party is panicking. and promising to throw billions of dollars at Auckland traffic, but here it is, passing legislation that does not fix the Resource Management Act. I would say that in 3 years\u2019 time we will still see people wasting hours of the only life they have, sitting in cars, wishing that they had even the traffic flows of Sydney. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EThis legislation should be rejected as a disgrace. For 6 years the Minister for the Environment has been telling us that it is perfect legislation. Then, today, we had dumped on us 35 pages of fine print, which are now embodied in the legislation we are being asked to vote on. I would guarantee that there is not a member in this House at the moment who could say exactly what that fine print does. There would not be a person in the Chamber who could read 35 pages of fine print, dumped on us without any kind of red-lining assistance, and know what it does for the Resource Management Act. Yet this House is about to vote on it, at the last minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EIt is being rushed through, under urgency, because they are too ashamed of the nonsense that has been spun by the Minister for the Environment, and the nonsense that has been spun by Cabinet in charge of this legislation. Now they are trying to undo some of the damage at the very last minute, with rushed legislation. It would be much easier if we were able to vote for the bits we thought were sensible. I have said there are one or two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b847f8318aaf497c89413e28f99bacc2\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: There are now, because you changed them at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268247c9fa2d54f5baa0d22b294cbc83e\u0022\u003ESTEPHEN FRANKS\u003C/span\u003E: There are one or two, exactly! A few changes in the select committee brought some common sense into this legislation, and there has been some redrafting at the last minute, which I trust has further improved it. But when $10 million of power goes whooshing down the Whanganui River because not to send it down might offend the M\u0101ori of the water, because going through turbines somehow offends the spirit of the water, when we have oil and coal being burnt because New Zealanders cannot put in small-scale hydro because it is simply too expensive to go through the Resource Management Act process, and then we get trifling legislation like this, that says that it is time for this Government to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4030eb1-1b72-4bc3-b00d-7126013abc01\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220210190a0dff4b82b82419cf9e83aa9a\u0022\u003EValedictory Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd3007588c6c4afa8b7c08ec1935902e\u0022\u003EValedictory Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7d350e5dab149168441d9bd36738ae1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7d350e5dab149168441d9bd36738ae1\u0022\u003EHELEN DUNCAN (Labour): \u003C/span\u003EKaranga mai rau rangatira m\u0101 me ng\u0101 hoa hoki. Te Whare e t\u016B nei, te papa e takoto ki waho, t\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua. E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata o te w\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003E[Call to me the chiefs of a hundredfold, and colleagues as well. To the House that stands before me and the earth lying out there, greetings to you two. To the powers, languages, and the people of the moment, greetings, greetings, and greetings to you all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EHaving greeted this House in the first language of our nation I now just want to say, in the language that I must admit I am most comfortable in, how really delighted I am to be able to be here today, and to say thank you to all my fellow members for their agreement for me to speak at this time, instead of yesterday. I would have liked to be here yesterday to share the occasion with my colleagues who are also retiring at this time, but I just could not make it. Actually, I underwent neurosurgery last Monday, and I needed to see my doctor this morning to get the staples removed before I came down here. And yes, I did say staples, not stitches or sutures\u2014it is amazing to learn of the different procedures they carry out in our wonderful health system. Although I have to admit that I did not much like the look of the staples, they did seem to do a very good job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EThe other thing I am a bit sorry about today is that Richard Prebble is not here. Some members, indeed most members, may be surprised at that, given that Richard and I have never been what one might call great mates. But I had promised myself the indulgence of having a long-deferred go at him for the game he played on the occasion of my entry to Parliament. He may not be here, but I have decided not to be done out of my chance to make a public comment\u2014after all, I am the only member who has ever had to sit in the gallery and listen to the House debate whether or not I should be permitted to take my seat. Never mind that all the rules and requirements had been met\u2014the honourable member wanted a debate about it. There had, of course, been a number of changes to personnel of the House before I came in, 2 years into the term, but the issuing of warrants had always taken place during recesses, so there was no opportunity for debate. To be fair, Richard did make the point that his objection was not personal, but constitutional. The debate did, however, delay me taking up my seat, and required the rescheduling of my maiden speech. Still, that is politics, and I guess we would all agree that games are part of the fabric of this House, and they can provide a bit of light relief at times. I certainly appreciated finally making it to my seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EMy time here, although not the shortest of the current retirees, is not as long as I would have wished. I had hoped, before learning of my illness, to stand for another term. But as it seems unlikely that I would see out the session in good health, I feel, with real sadness, that I have to say goodbye. I want to thank all my colleagues from all parties for their continuing expressions of concern and support for me through some very difficult times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EComing into that first MMP Parliament was not an easy experience for many of the new MPs, especially for those on the list, as it was largely uncharted waters. But I have to say that coming in 2 years into the term and trying to set up an office on the North Shore, with a limited budget and absolutely nothing left in the Parliamentary Service store, was quite a test. That we managed to set up a pretty respectable office was a real testament to my wonderful North Shore team. I do give special thanks to my staff at that time, Kerry and Karen, for all their wonderful work. One thing that did amaze me was the number of people, right from the start, who came to us for help. As an Opposition list MP, I had not expected there would be much demand, but from the time of the first newspaper notice we had lots to do. I think being an MP must have the least pre-service training of any job with similar responsibilities. I know how hard I worked to come up to speed on accident compensation claims, benefit entitlements, medical misadventure, and tax issues. I must say, though, that those issues are much less of the workload now than at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EThen, of course, after the 1999 election of the Labour-Alliance Government, everything changed. Not only did I have my friend Ann Hartley as another Labour MP on the North Shore but I was also appointed as deputy-chair, to Graham Kelly, of the special select committee established to consider, first, the new industrial relations legislation, and, second, the restoration of the social contract between the State and the people for the provision of accident compensation. I cannot think of anything that has meant more to me than both those pieces of work. The workload was huge because, as well, I sat on both the Education and Science Committee and the Social Services Committee. The special committee met each afternoon and evening. We heard hundreds of submissions, read thousands, and considered a mountain of reports, and I enjoyed almost the entire process. It was certainly on a par with leading the New Zealand Educational Institute Te Riu Roa to the first pay parity settlement, and I had never expected I would be involved in anything quite as momentous as that again. I count myself as being very fortunate, because the chance to be part of a team working to make a positive difference in people\u2019s lives is a wonderful experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI did not set out to have a career in politics, and although I am usually referred to in this Chamber by members of the Opposition parties as having been a trade union official, that was actually only for 2 years of my working life, when I was the elected national president of the Educational Institute. The rest of my working life I spent as a classroom teacher, and about half of that time was spent in the special-education field. For that reason I am glad to have had the chance to serve on the Education and Science Committee for my 7 years here. I want to place on record my thanks to both Liz Gordon, for her work as chair from 1999-2002, and to Brian Donnelly for chairing it for the last 3 years. They both chaired the committee with dignity, charm, and good humour, and always showed concern for submitters, which has meant that it has always been a pleasure to attend that committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EThe establishment of the Teachers Council and sensible, forward-looking legislation in a host of areas have made great improvements in education provision. The excellent research being done at Waikato University may well hold the key to better outcomes for our underachieving students\u2014I do hope so. There has been a huge growth in the tertiary sector, and although there have certainly been some problems we could all have done without, the need to increase the skill level of our workforce is imperative. New Zealand needs apprentices, industry trainees, and constant retraining opportunities, if we are to become the high-skill, high-wage economy that our people deserve. I find it difficult to understand why those who argue vehemently for the need for executive salaries to be internationally competitive cannot extrapolate that lesson to the payment of their workers. For instance, it is not low taxes that lure Kiwis to Australia, since its tax rates are higher than ours, but Australia\u2019s pay levels are certainly more attractive than ours. The remedy for that lies in the hands of employers, especially as we have had 6 years of excellent economic performance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EIn the university sector we can be very proud of the performance of our institutions in many areas, but I do remain concerned about the way they cling to the competitive market model. Large amounts of money are squandered on fancy advertising campaigns that serve no useful purpose, while staff salaries languish. Competition should be only in the achievement of excellence in academic results\u2014not in which university can expand the fastest into other regions, or attract the most sponsorship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EWhile on the subject of education, I cannot let this opportunity pass without commenting on the series of seminars sponsored by the Royal Society of New Zealand and the Education and Science Committee. Started by Liz Gordon and Brian Donnelly in 2002, and continued in this session, the seminars are designed to improve the understanding of science issues by MPs, and to give the two groups a chance to get to know one another. We have considered some fascinating topics, from crime-scene analysis to the origins of the first Pacific settlers. The Royal Society puts on a lovely meal, enjoyed by an enthusiastic group of regular attendees. For those who have not tried the seminars, I thoroughly recommend that they do so in the next session. I know they are one of the joys of my time here, and one that I will really miss. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EBeing a member of this Labour-led Government has been a really satisfying experience in so many ways that I cannot possibly detail them all. But some of the highlights for me have been the restoration of income-related rents in State houses, and the upgrading and building of State houses to replace those neglected or sold in the 1990s. No one who visits those communities can doubt the huge, positive benefit of that work. As well, the improvements to the delivery of benefits, coupled with the huge increase in employment, are a source of real pride to me. The huge investment made in public health has made life a lot easier for many of our most vulnerable citizens, and I am happy to place on record my appreciation of the care I have had in our hospitals and clinical services. Of course I have had to wait for treatment at times, but now that we have increased numbers in training, particularly in areas such as radiotherapy, the delays are no longer critical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EProbably my proudest moment here was when I became the chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and likewise the saddest time was when ill health meant I had to resign. Still I have enjoyed both that first year and the last 2 years as a member of the committee, with Mark Gosche as a great chair. Which Auckland MP would not have loved to deliver the wonderful roading progress and, as well, the improvements to the industrial relations legislation and the Holidays Act\u2014sheer bliss! Paid parental leave, enhanced childcare provisions, the improvements in the minimum wage, the appointment of the Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner, the Property (Relationships) Act, and the Action Plan for New Zealand Women are all policies dear to my heart that make a difference for women. As a feminist from way back, that is really important to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI want to take a little time now to talk about MMP. This is another little indulgence that I promised myself I would have, if I got to make a valedictory speech. It stems from the occasion of the valedictory speech of my dear old mate Graham Kelly. I was actually sitting beside Graham as he launched into his opinion of the work and usefulness of list MPs. Although careful to acknowledge the hard work of many list MPs, Graham compared unfavourably the relative workloads of list and constituency MPs. Although he may have had some justification for his opinion that the community pressures are greater for those who represent a constituency, unfortunately he forgot to factor in the difference in staff resources provided to the two groups for the work they do. In any case, his view that all MPs should be allocated a patch, or a constituency, would hugely increase the complexity of the system, and I do not believe that it would add the accountability that he felt was lacking. From my own work, and from my observation of my fellow list members from all areas and parties out and about in our community, I can say that most are working damned hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI am a true believer in the MMP system and in its ability to deliver a better form of democracy to the people. Under first past the post, we too often saw the party that won the most votes winning fewer seats, because of the way the electoral boundaries were configured. That has been, and always will be, a problem with electorates. But under MMP that becomes less significant, because it does not decide the final result. That is a plus, but it is not the really important factor. The really important issue that lies at the heart of democracy is the right to be represented in Parliament and to have one\u2019s political views represented there. Prior to 1996, too many people were denied that right. Large numbers of people voted for parties, such as the Social Credit Party or the Values Party, which won a significant share of the vote but, on most occasions, no seats. Of course, the double jeopardy was that people were often discouraged from voting how they were truly inclined to vote, by perceiving that their vote would be wasted. Even quite large votes could yield no result, and probably the most potent example of that occurred in 1984, when the New Zealand Party won about 20 percent of the vote, yet not a single seat. Regardless of whether we thought that was a good result, a number of us started to think seriously about electoral reform at that time. I do realise, of course, that the 5 percent threshold does disenfranchise some small groups, but I believe that the balance between delivering true representation and maintaining stable Government is about right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EThe other non-representative scenario from first past the post that really bugged me for the first 20 years I lived in Auckland was the safe seat. I lived first in the T\u0101maki, and then in the Remuera, electorate. Although I always cast my vote, it did sometimes seem a little pointless, as I watched Sir Robert Muldoon, and then Sir Douglas Graham, sweep in as my representative. The current situation is much better. Communities still get the constituency representative that suits their taste, but at least the overall, truly democratic party vote is the electoral decider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, there are a number of people that I do want to thank. It may seem a bit effusive, but having a terminal illness does make me want to say things that I feel are important. So, here goes. I want to place on record my appreciation to Mayor George Wood and the North Shore City Council for their inclusion of list MPs in civic affairs. I really enjoyed working on issues such as the T\u0101maki land and the Bayswater Marina, and I believe that it was to our mutual benefit. To the messengers, security, catering, and select committee staff\u2014in fact, to all the parliamentary workers\u2014I say they do a great job of looking after us. I thank them. To Chris, who spent 6 years as my electorate secretary, I express my heartfelt gratitude. You have always done more than asked, and have been a wonderful support to me and to those who seek help from me. Thank you. To Audrey, who has looked after me better than anyone has any right to expect for over 5 years, I say you are a wonderful friend, a brilliant secretary, and probably the most willing worker whom it has ever been my pleasure to know. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003ETo my wonderful North Shore Labour electorate committee, and to Francis and Bill Bell in particular, I say they have been great to work with, and I truly appreciate all their efforts. I also want to thank the North Shore Labour team. It has been great to work together across the three electorates, and those people have become really good friends. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EMy friends in the New Zealand Educational Institute and the union movement are too numerous to mention individually, so in the spirit of collectivity I will just say a representative thanks to Ross and Carol that includes all of my comrades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003ETo my caucus colleagues, I say thank you for the extra work you took on to cover my absences for treatment. To the lovely, long-suffering whips, I say thank you for uncomplainingly sorting out leave for me when needed\u2014no matter at what notice\u2014and also for the personal support they have provided. To Ann Hartley and Lynne Pillay, I can only say thanks, you two, for cheering, comforting, and cosseting me through some really hard times. No one could ask for more. I want, too, to say a special thank you to Helen Clark, who went that extra length to make sure that I felt sure of her unequivocal support to continue in my MP role for as long as I felt able. While I am on that subject, I also say thank you to Helen for restoring my faith in the Labour Party, and so making my service as an MP possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI guess all of us have friends who are very special in our lives. For me, Fiona Johnston is such a friend. We have known each other for over 25 years, and I have shared a lot of activities and interests with her. She has been my campaign manager for three elections, and has served above and beyond the call of duty. I just cannot possibly say how much her unfailing support has meant to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI have an amazingly wonderful family\u2014too numerous to mention\u2014but I just want to say thanks to my three sisters, who are here today, to my brother in Australia, and to my beautiful children, Scott, Leigh, and Blair, who have supported and encouraged me in everything I have done. I must also say that I have seven grandchildren who fill my life with joy. To my very special man Alan, I can only say that you are my support, my rock, my anchor, and my love, and I am so lucky to have you in my life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229df41e27-6082-4bc7-9fda-bab499cb9246\u0022\u003EI have loved this job, and I know I will miss the work and all the wonderful people. Good luck to you all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c766d3dbe2ad44dcb22bbfa81f729d5e\u0022\u003EResource Management Amendment Bill (No 5)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c766d3dbe2ad44dcb22bbfa81f729d5e\u0022\u003EElectricity Amendment Bill (No 3)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296769baeb2ef44f5a69901cce3ec7494\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000766\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a03b271f5fa448d6ab427a975f3bb4b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a03b271f5fa448d6ab427a975f3bb4b9\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Resource Management Act has for 14 years had the purpose of ensuring that people can provide for their social and economic needs without damaging the life-supporting qualities of ecosystems, while ensuring that resources are still there for future generations and avoiding\u2014or at least minimising\u2014adverse effects on the environment. For 14 years it has done a rather imperfect job, but nevertheless has done the job, of protecting our future, protecting our environment, and protecting the rights of the public to participate. Some projects get stopped, as they should. An Act that ticked off everything would not be doing its job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EToday we have seen three approaches to the future of that Act. It is perhaps fitting that today Parliament ends a session and goes into an election campaign, because this issue will be an issue in the campaign. We have seen Labour scared to leave power with communities. It started off supporting the environment and people, but it has given into pressure and has been panicked by National\u2019s relentless demands for more \u201Cthink big\u201D projects, more big roads, more big power stations, and more power lines. The Labour Government has amended the Act to give itself the power to override communities and to impose big infrastructure projects on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EBut as we go into this election, we need to look at what National would do instead. It wants to wipe away all impediments to anyone\u2019s development projects. In particular, it does not want the Environment Court to have the benefit of all the relevant information on a project; it wants only the information that comes from the developer. Nick Smith has been claiming all day that the amendment in this bill that allows called-in projects to be referred directly to the Environment Court is the same as direct referral, as proposed in the Upton bill in 1999. That is absolutely not true. The difference is that in this bill the power of the Minister to directly refer a project is subject to criteria in new section 140, and it is judicially reviewable against those criteria. By contrast, what the National Party wants is an automatic right for any developer that wants to bypass the local community and local council just to go straight to the Environment Court in order to save itself time and money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENational wants to cut out any reference to the treaty or M\u0101ori cultural values in the Resource Management Act. It wants a monocultural society where M\u0101ori are expected to be brown P\u0101keh\u0101. It wants a law that does not recognise that the values of the indigenous people of this country have special status here because they exist nowhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENational wants to reintroduce standing, like we used to have under the Town and Country Planning Act, where only those directly affected are able to have a say. Standing has a history that we should be very worried about. \u201CDirectly affected\u201D is interpreted by the courts to mean that one\u2019s property is affected. People whose personal health may be affected have often been held by the courts to have no standing to make a case. Nick Smith is saying that he, as a South Islander, should have no right to be heard on the question of how polluted Lake Taup\u014D should get, because he does not live there. It is a national icon, but he does not want to have any say about it. He is saying that I, as a resident of the Coromandel, should have no right to comment on the ecological importance of our South Island braided rivers, which are unusual in a global sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENational wants to scrap the environmental legal aid scheme. It costs less than $1 million a year, so it is obviously not the costs that he is concerned about. What he is concerned about is that when local community groups form incorporated societies and want to bring the information they have to the table at the Environment Court, he does not want that information heard. He wants to shut them out. He knows that the David and Goliath battle between the local environmental protection group and a multinational is such an unequal contest that if the group does not have that $25,000 to $30,000 of legal aid, it is unlikely to be able to make a good case. He is also ignoring the fact that without that money and without the legal advice it can give the group, it is likely to waste more of the court\u2019s time by raising issues that are not relevant under the Act. So in fact he shoots himself in the foot. And he wants to put back the provision that was in the Act for a few short years, until the previous committee removed it, whereby a developer can stop a community group from bringing any evidence, and taking part in a case at all, by saying that if it puts in an objection, the developer will seek security for costs against it, right upfront. The developer will go to the court and demand that the group put up $30,000 to prove that if it loses, it can pay. At that point, most community groups drop out of the process because they cannot participate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESo the National Party\u2019s programme is a clear and unambiguous recipe for cutting out public participation and for degrading the environment. The Green Party initiated that environmental legal aid project, and we persuaded Marian Hobbs in the year 2000 that it was a good idea to resource the community to participate well. It has meant that David, when he faces Goliath, is not totally barefoot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party says that property rights, which we have heard a lot about today, stop at one\u2019s boundary. The idea that people can do what they like on their own land does not give them the right to affect the rights of others by imposing noise, spray drift, flooding, sedimentation, nitrate runoff, or faecal coliforms into other people\u2019s space, on to other people\u2019s land, or into the common property of rivers, the coast, our air, and our water bodies. Property rights have never meant the right to damage and downgrade the property of others or the public property that we all hold in common. If property rights are circumscribed in that way, so that people cannot have any impacts outside the boundaries of their own land, people will find that property rights are actually a great deal less than what some members of this House have been arguing for for some time. The Green Party is now the only party that stands up completely for the right to participation under the Act, for the right for all the information to be brought and heard in court, and for the natural environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI finish by reading a short piece from an editorial in the Otago Daily Times, which the Associate Minister for the Environment has been quoting from considerably during the debate. I want to read a bit that he has not been reading: \u201CDespite the tourist advertising about some fantasy New Zealand where everything is 100 percent pure, the realists who actually live here know this is far from the truth. The destruction of much pristine land with ribbon housing development, the conversion of top-class agricultural and horticultural soils to accommodate vanity farming, the gross pollution of many, if not most, of our rivers, and the wholesale assault on ancient and limited aquifers for immediate commercial gain\u2014there is hardly a limit to the examples of our longstanding reckless environmental stewardship.\u201D That is why we need to protect the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c89b05db6804467a85e1fe9b878101fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c89b05db6804467a85e1fe9b878101fb\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the third reading debate of the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 5) and the Electricity Amendment Bill (No 3).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210a00342046a483180780a3fb116c61c\u0022\u003ELARRY BALDOCK\u003C/span\u003E: As I begin this third reading speech, I want to pay tribute to a few people who I have had the pleasure of working with throughout the last 3 years on the Local Government and Environment Committee. First of all, I thank the chair, Jeanette Fitzsimons. Although I have disagreed with her on many occasions, I have found her to be very hard-working and a servant to the committee. I appreciate all she has done for us during that 3 years. I have appreciated all the members of the committee, and I have learnt a great deal from them. They have had many years of experience, from which I have been able to draw. I have also enjoyed working with Ministers Marian Hobbs and David Benson-Pope in order to bring this bill to completion. United Future is particularly pleased to see this bill passed before the House rises for the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI want to review United Future\u2019s position over the last 3 years. United Future made it very clear early on\u2014in fact, in a speech I made in the first reading debate of the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014that we were very keen to see Resource Management Act reform become a major part of our work with the Government during this term. Reflecting back over 3 years, I see that a number of things have been accomplished and have also changed. I remember 3 years ago when Winston Peters stood up a few months after the election and said that United Future would not be around for more than 3 months. Here we are 3 years later\u2014we are still here, and we have had stable Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EIt is interesting. People say that imitation is the highest form of praise, and now the leader of New Zealand First is talking about supply and confidence agreements. He has sat here for 3 years and watched how we have operated, and he has learnt that he made the biggest mistake of his life in 1996 in the way he approached his relationship with the then National Government. Imitation is the highest form of praise, and we have seen other parties in this House begin to adopt our policies. Even with regard to the Resource Management Act, National has come out with policies that include three things that are already in the bill we are passing today. The National Party has virtually adopted our outdoor recreation and conservation policy, and I guess that is high praise. We fully expect National to announce that it will adopt income splitting in its tax policy, which is soon to be announced, because it is such a good policy. It will not surprise us if National adopts it. New Zealand First has copied us also, and not just in terms of our supply and confidence agreement. It has stolen our marine reserves policy almost word for word. ACT is about the only party that has not stolen any of our policies. That is because the ACT party does not have any policy; it just attacks everybody else\u2019s and hopes that that will see it through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe passage of this legislation today is a statement about a number of things. It is, firstly, a very good example of how MMP can work. Despite the fact that only United Future is supporting the Government to pass this bill, it is a fact that all parties\u2014or nearly all parties; we did not see Ken Shirley very often during this process\u2014have made positive contributions toward making this legislation what it is today. I think that is a tribute to the way that parties, despite the debating that goes on in this Chamber, do work together at the select committee table. Secondly, the passage of this legislation is a testament to what can be achieved by a small party that works constructively within the rules of a supply and confidence agreement. Our supply and confidence agreement with the Government had only four requirements, and no mention of Resource Management Act reform. The last 3 years, however, have seen significant developments in Resource Management Act reform, so much so that we are dealing today with the Resource Management Act Amendment Bill (No 5). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI take members back to the some speeches I made in 2002 and 2003. On 2 October 2002, speaking on the Resource Management (Controlled and Discretionary Activities) Amendment Bill, I said: \u201C\u2026 it is the view of United Future that the first priority is to get the main Resource Management Amendment Bill, which has been languishing on the Order Paper for so long, through the House, before attempting to introduce even more legislative amendments.\u201D Despite enormous criticism from the Opposition, United Future did support the Government to get that bill moving and passed, and then we were prepared to move on and work with the Government constructively to deal with other reform to the Resource Management Act. Speaking in the third reading debate on Tuesday, 13 May 2003, I said: \u201CWhen the 47th Parliament convened last year, United Future made it clear to the Government that we considered the reform process of the Resource Management Act to be a priority. When it asked us for our support to pass this legislation, which had been sitting on the Order Paper, we gave our support.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EWe also indicated early on how important it was to us to deal with some specific issues in the legislation, and we wanted to see the passage of the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 2). We said it represented a first step rather than an end point. We believe, as I said in a speech earlier today, that the Resource Management Act will always need some reform. It will be a work in progress forever. It is a huge piece of legislation, and managing the balance between environmental concerns and business development concerns will require constant monitoring. That is why United Future\u2019s policy is that every 2 years there should be a review of the Act to see how it has worked\u2014not necessarily the vast review that we have been through in the last 12 to 18 months, but a review none the less to see whether any further fine-tuning or improvements can be made to the legislation. That is something United Future will continue to be committed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EIn a speech during the second reading debate, on 6 May 2003, I said: \u201COne of the things we in United Future are very interested in, comes from one of the recommendations referred to earlier\u201D\u2014which were the earlier recommendations in 1999 made by Simon Upton\u2014\u201C\u2014that is, that we may have direct referral to the Environment Court for projects of national significance such as power and road projects.\u201D Members can imagine that United Future is very pleased that the Minister adopted my suggestion that rather than have direct referral, as was originally intended, we have direct referral as one of the tools that Ministers can use when they deal with the call-in powers. We thank the Minister for listening to our advice on that and bringing it into the legislation at the select committee stage. We believe it will enable the Minister to address the specific needs of each project that is of national significance to this country. It is important that the infrastructure in this country can be addressed in a timely fashion, but not, as National is suggesting, by running roughshod over any environmental concerns. We must maintain that balance, and that is something United Future will remain committed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EI also said, way back then, that when it comes to overriding private property right concerns, in the national interest, for things we want to preserve, it was important that those should be paid for out of the national purse. Although that provision is not in this legislation, I am pleased that Gordon Copeland\u2019s bill\u2014and members can be assured that Gordon Copeland will be back in the next Parliament; I intend to be back, as well\u2014which protects private property rights, will be brought through the select committee process and back to this House for further debate. It is important, if we are asking property owners to preserve something of national interest, that the taxpayers of New Zealand make some compensation payment for that purpose to the property owner. That will lead to the success of another of United Future\u2019s initiatives, which we indicated way back then needed to be brought into the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221e93d9c8-b183-40db-b200-833697df066c\u0022\u003EThe passing of this bill today is evidence of United Future\u2019s commitment to work, little by little, inch by inch, at nudging the Government along. We are only 8 MPs, but we are enormously proud of what we have accomplished in this 3 years, with 7 of us being newcomers to this process. We believe we have a significant list of achievements, and we are ready to go out into this campaign to let the people of New Zealand know what we have achieved. We believe that they will respond when they know what we have done\u2014we have been terribly ignored by the press throughout this 3 year process, as most people have noticed. When people know the truth about what United Future members have achieved, such as this resource management legislation, we will be returned to this Parliament with additional colleagues, so that we can continue to serve the people of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u0022f183586900e946a6929eed4337389003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f183586900e946a6929eed4337389003\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to rise to support the third reading of this legislation. I am glad to see the improvements to the Resource Management Act that are expressed in this legislation. I owe a great many thanks to the members of United Future because they understand the notions of compromise and working an issue through but they also understand that complex legislation like this requires constant improvement\u2014as does my other favourite, the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI want to put this legislation into context\u2014the context of planning. People sometimes think that the Resource Management Act is all about the environment, but it ain\u2019t. It is about our living and working together. Those members who can look far back to their first marriages and think about the arguments about how they operated in the bathroom, the bedroom, the living room, or wherever, and how they and their partners organised their lives together\u2014[Interruption] I thank Mr Cullen. I am referring to people squeezing the toothpaste from the middle, or whatever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThose members will know that there are always difficulties. That is what the Resource Management Act is about. Environmental planning is far more than legislation. It is about councils that make decisions. It is about paying for training of their councillors. It is about demanding that they are able to make good decisions out there. It is about supporting the quality planning website where people can go to avoid reinventing the wheel, because it gives them access to the arguments of other good planners in other councils up and down the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EIt is about strengthening the Environment Court. When I assumed this ministry 6 years ago, people were waiting 2 or 3 years to get their cases heard. The average was 18 months. Now the waiting time is down so far that one can get a case heard in that court in 6 months. We had a backlog there of, I think, over 3,000 cases. The backlog is down to about 1,200 and falling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EHow did that come about? It came about through appointing more judges. It came about through setting up the system of mediation, so that 80 percent of the cases are now mediated successfully and do not go to court, with all the money that that involves. And it came about through simple processes of recording and planning for the Environment Court and the registry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThen we have questions around enforcement and monitoring. As the Minister for the Environment, I do have concerns about this. That is why I have some strange problems with National going on and on about that speedway. The speedway may well be a good thing, but the problem is that a rule was made and ignored. It is the same story with some of the problems we have had in Environment Waikato, where consents have been set and ignored and we have had some very strange habits as regards discharge of contaminated water. So we have some real issues around enforcement and monitoring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EIt is also about the review of effects of plans and consents. It is all very well when people sit down and write up a plan or give a consent because they think that X is going to happen. Do they ever check whether X has happened? That is the role of the Ministry for the Environment. A whole division has now been set up in that department to be involved in looking at enforcement and monitoring as we work through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThen there are things like the national environmental standards that were set up by this Act so many years ago\u201415 years ago\u2014and totally ignored for 9 years. In fact, I was told when I first became Minister to ignore the whole idea of a national environmental standard, because it would cost $4 million to introduce one. Now, at this very moment, the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society of New Zealand headquarters staff are saying: \u201CWhoa, we\u2019re being left out.\u201D They do not understand that so far in the setting of further environment standards, we are just at the stage of scoping to see which standards may actually be of use, before we impose something written out of someone\u2019s head and not tested out there in the industry. A standard will be set, as will a time line, just as was done when we set the air quality standards\u2014on which, I note, the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society made no submission. [Interruption] It did not tweet. For us to be involved in something that will have significant effects on the environment\u2014effects such as clean air\u2014is terribly important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to say to do with that\u2014as the Minister looks round at me\u2014is that setting standards alone is not enough; it has to be supported with some finance. So if we set a standard for clean air, we have to do something about supplying warm homes. We do not just tell people to turn off their fires or their wood-burners without finding something to replace them, and working with those people, particularly the most vulnerable. I have just been in Tokoroa and in Christchurch, where some excellent work is being done on that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders say that a clean and healthy environment is an aspect of living in New Zealand that they value highly. But we do not get such a healthy environment merely by wishing for it. We believe, with many other nations, that economic development, environmental health, and social justice must be balanced. The Resource Management Act is a matter of balance. So are district plans. They are matters of balance. That demands good process. It demands the type of compromise between the competing demands that often exist between United Future, the Greens, and ourselves. But that planning and consent can be informed only by efficient, inclusive procedures. That is what this legislation achieves, and it is why I strongly support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bb180081000645cd821a20066cc8f96a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 5) and the Electricity Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 3; M\u0101ori Party 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225145e39713f64142833ae3d97fad276e\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c685ffc10a684701b7ec85fa7b31df02\u0022\u003ECorrection\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca64b22966fc4439a63113409f1b7947\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca64b22966fc4439a63113409f1b7947\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to amend the voting tallies from the evening sitting of the House last Wednesday, 27 July, to delete references to the two Progressive votes in the party votes on the Smoke-free Environments (Exemptions) Amendment Bill, the Crimes (Abolition of Force as a Justification for Child Discipline) Amendment Bill, and the New Zealand Nuclear Free Zone, Disarmament, and Arms Control (Nuclear Propulsion Reform) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222705765b1da549179cffa40ba6a39f16\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is asking for leave to alter the votes. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There appears to be none. The voting will be amended accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002227ab16c945d8469f98fe9d1ed96cabe1\u0022\u003EStanding Orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c08d896d48b4ade98d181afa2a66d06\u0022\u003EStanding Orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00224a4ead49e4fe43c7b9ee687f9cd2e24d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a4ead49e4fe43c7b9ee687f9cd2e24d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the amendments to the Standing Orders set out in Appendix B to the report of the Standing Orders Committee entitled Review of Standing Orders to be deemed to be amended by Supplementary Order Paper 387, dealing with split party votes, and by the typescript amendments in my name amending Standing Order 79 and Standing Order 240A, for the purpose of the consideration of Government motion No. 2. The typeset amendments relate to a technical amendment, adding the term \u201Cexpiration\u201D after the term \u201Cdissolution\u201D in the relevant Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022983d7b7053c84d7ab7f16267c77d86ca\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is seeking leave. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258f7914ac26d4d00b56b6b557fca2071\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the amendments to the Standing Orders set out in Appendix B to the report of the Standing Orders Committee entitled Review of Standing Orders, as amended by Supplementary Order Paper No 387 (dealing with split party votes) and the typescript amendment in the name of Hon Dr Michael Cullen (amending Standing Order 79 and Standing Order 240A), be adopted and take effect on the day following the dissolution or expiration of this Parliament. These are nearly all, I think, very minor changes. They primarily relate in the first instance to changes that arise from the Public Finance Act in a purely technical sense, in terms of the language used\u2014the definitions used\u2014to line up the Standing Orders with the new definitions used in the Public Finance Act; otherwise, the Standing Orders are no longer appropriate in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESecondly, in terms of proceedings relating to the opening of Parliament, the changes deal with an amendment to the Constitution Act that has been passed, which provides that instead of having a motion\u2014which we would normally, in the past, have dealt with tonight\u2014to carry forward business, the new Parliament deals with a motion for the reinstatement of business. That is constitutionally more appropriate, because it is really a matter for the new Parliament to determine what business it wishes to pick up, rather than for the old Parliament to tell the new Parliament what business it might wish to pick up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAnd we have a Standing Order amendment relating to what happens at the end of a sitting of the House, particularly in terms of the House being in Committee. If we are interrupted 5 minutes from the end time, it provides quite clearly that the House is adjourned at that point and does not move on to any other business. Again, the reinstatement of business is dealt with in those Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe new matter dealt with\u2014and I thank the House for the leave granted\u2014is a matter raised by Mr Peter Brown, and quite properly I think. The habit has developed of leave being granted for split votes to be taken. Mr Brown raised the issue of, whereas where there is a party vote it is normally clear that everybody has voted in favour or against\u2014people can be assumed to be voting in favour or against, according to the party vote\u2014in a split party vote where, say, Labour votes 44 for and seven against, it is not clear who the \u201Cfors\u201D are and who the \u201Cagainsts\u201D are, and the public should have the right to know which way members have actually voted in that respect. That, therefore, raises the further issue that at the moment split party votes are taken by leave. It seemed appropriate, with that change, for split party votes simply to be a norm within Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI think that actually covers the changes that are dealt with in this first motion, as opposed to the second motion that I will be moving, in relation to members\u2019 pecuniary interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022199c7e9099e0449f88864575fd31c0f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022199c7e9099e0449f88864575fd31c0f8\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I endorse the comments made by the Leader of the House. These matters were ironed out in the Standing Orders Committee. Far more time was spent on the next Government notice of motion than on the first one, but we will come to that shortly. It is easy, when looking at reviews of the Standing Orders and reports to the House such as this one, to simply fob them off as being technical amendments, and to say that some tidying-up is needed in order for the Standing Orders to operate more smoothly. But one or two things are worth saying about these changes, particularly those in part 2 of the report of the Standing Orders Committee. The Leader of the House has covered the changes that follow from the enactment of the Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill. That is not my area of expertise, and I do not intend to spend a lot of time talking about that. However, the second part of the report does raise one or two interesting points. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EFirstly, I would endorse the Leader of the House\u2019s view that a reinstatement of business motion is appropriate, because the business for a new Parliament should be a matter for that new Parliament to determine. The motion should not be left to the Parliament that sat prior to an adjournment or, I suspect, a prorogue before a general election. So the amendment to the Standing Orders regarding the reinstatement of business is appropriate. Secondly, although somewhat sadly, we will see\u2014or we have probably had\u2014the last vote on a part by part motion heading into the Committee stage of the debate on a bill. Although I understand the common sense in doing that\u2014and it is not a partisan issue, because one would hope that whichever party was in Government would think that that was a particularly good provision to change in the Standing Orders\u2014it does deprive the Opposition of a small tool under an MMP environment. It is a small tool to use on the odd occasion on a procedural issue\u2014rare though it may be, and I confess I have not come across it in my 5\u00BD years in this Parliament\u2014when the Government is unable to muster the numbers to deal with a bill in the Committee in the way it wishes, even though its voting partner may agree with the substantive matter. But the change makes sense, so the National Party will be supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe other issue the Leader of the House has raised, which the House has given leave to include tonight, is Supplementary Order Paper 387 in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen. It relates to Peter Brown\u2019s move to see split party votes recorded and the names lodged in Hansard, to depict the way a split party vote occurred and how particular members voted. Although initially reluctant to move in this direction, we had an interesting conversation in our caucus whereby we formed the view that this particular issue was more about the public\u2019s expectation of knowing how particular members of Parliament voted, rather than a mechanism that may or may not suit a larger party on issues where that party has some members voting against the majority\u2014or, indeed, on the odd occasion the numbers may well be even. So I say to Mr Brown that that is a fair rule to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b16433ad1724a1fb2433b22e3b513b4\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The Brown amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baf6493bf31944d4898dabff5aa078d2\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; it is the Brown amendment. It will ensure that the public knows which way members vote on a split vote, and their names will be recorded in Hansard. That change strikes those of us who are in the National Party as being fair, to say the least. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EWe will not add any more to the debate on this particular motion, but we intend to support the Government in its passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a24a2f9f78814b9eae6a0487a151e96f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a24a2f9f78814b9eae6a0487a151e96f\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I do not think I will take my full 10 minutes, because basically I want to talk on only two matters. New Zealand First will be supporting this motion, but the two matters I want to speak about\u2014and I urge the Government members who are listening and paying attention to this and, indeed, my National Party colleagues who may or may not be in Government next time, depending on who we choose\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216e76179ab154924ae1c1896be3f0821\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s the reason you won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884901c00b704535a320567ffe051166\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: We are ending on a lighter note. Honourable members might like to look at page 15 of the report, where it refers to the part by part consideration of bills. There is a small, little sentence. We would have liked its wording to be stronger and more definitive, but it is there. It states: \u201CThe committee hopes that the new provision will result in more Government participation in debates.\u201D Speaking seriously on this issue for a moment, I have to say that it really gets up New Zealand First\u2019s nose\u2014and that is putting it bluntly\u2014when we pass legislation in this House and few, if any, Government members speak and, on many occasions, no members of small parties that support the Government speak, at all. This was highlighted to me when we passed the Electoral Amendment Act, I think it was, some 3 or 4 years ago. Then, no contribution was forthcoming from the Greens, who supported the bill, and there were very few contributions from Government members. Yet that night on TV, after the bill had passed through the Committee stage, we saw the young man from the Greens, whose name escapes me\u2014the cannabis guy. What is his name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0190ab752ea49a3842df5f935b6edf5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ian Ewen-Street.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ea1d5483b564cb886fae2c885ccac30\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Is he the cannabis guy? No, it is Nandor\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f854f5cd9894d45b4c94fba3fd4284d\u0022\u003ERod Donald\u003C/span\u003E: Short-term memory loss\u2014too much rum in your youth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7122ae94b14c4d9ba0eaf554e234dd\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they are all cannabis users. Rod Donald has just told us that. Nandor Tanczos was on TV explaining why a clause in the bill should go through, yet in a sitting not long afterwards, the Hon Dr Cullen was embarrassed because Gavin Ellis, the editor of the New Zealand Herald, told the Prime Minister, I believe, or told the Labour Government, that if they pushed the bill through with that clause in it, his newspaper would not report the Government again\u2014or some such language. So Dr Cullen was in the embarrassing position\u2014he looks as though he does not remember it, but I know that he remembers it well\u2014of reversing and bringing that bill back to the Committee stage so members could take that clause out. The Committee took the clause out pretty promptly, and then the bill proceeded. All that legislation went through with not one contribution coming from the supporting party in particular, and with very few contributions coming from the Labour Government. That told members of New Zealand First that the standard of debate in this House is not adequate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EYesterday when I listened to the Hon Roger Sowry saying that the standard of debate under the first past the post system\u2014which was before my time in this House\u2014was much higher, I tended to believe him. I say to list MPs in particular that if they want to be told that the first past the post system produced a better standard of debate and a more comprehensive debate, then they should take note of this one little sentence: \u201CThe committee hopes that the new provision will result in more Government participation in debates.\u201D That is what it says. That is an admission by the Government, and by Dr Cullen, who approved that little sentence, that Government members do not participate as fully in debates as the public would like. The public who are listening out there are entitled to know the Government\u2019s view and the Opposition\u2019s view. I tell Government members to take heed. We in New Zealand First have supported this part by part consideration of bills on the basis that we got that sentence in the report, because debates in this House leave a lot to be desired on many occasions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E I want to refer now to the Supplementary Order Paper that Dr Cullen has produced. He has very kindly given me credit for initiating the idea, and, indeed, Simon Power, the senior National whip, has concurred with that view. Well, it is not particularly my view; it is the view of New Zealand First. We are here because we believe we are serving democracy, and it is only right and proper that when we vote in this House the public knows who voted which way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe have heard of occasions where MPs\u2014not from my party, I might add\u2014have gone out and said; \u201CWell, we didn\u2019t all support that.\u201D, and curried favour with whoever they were talking to, and if it was in the individual\u2019s interest to say he or she supported it, then he or she did, and if it was not in the individual\u2019s interests, then he or she did not. I have to say that ACT has been as consistent as New Zealand First on this. When we have split our vote we have always declared quite openly who voted for and who voted against. We think it is only right and proper, again, in the interests of democracy, that when a party takes advantage of the split party vote it records who votes for, who votes against, and, if necessary, who abstains. We are accepting on that basis that it should not be by leave. It should be an automatic right for each party to say: \u201CWe want to split our vote.\u201D, and go this way or that way, or part of the team this way and part of the team that way, and now that their names are going to be recorded in Hansard, we are more than happy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI do not want to say any more on this. New Zealand First supports this motion. We have concerns about the motion coming up shortly, but we support this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u002248ef11bb94404edcadb3de5c14898976\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248ef11bb94404edcadb3de5c14898976\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I will miss Peter Brown, who always stands up and says: \u201CI\u2019m just going to take a short call on this.\u201D\u2014and 10 minutes later he is still going. I will just take just a short call on this motion to say that we support the amendments to the Standing Orders regarding the reinstatement of business, and also Supplementary Order Paper 387 in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen. I do appreciate the constitutional importance of one Parliament not being able to bind the next Parliament. Of course, one could argue that having the old Parliament prescribe what the business would be of the next Parliament does not actually bind it, but a lot of time is wasted, surely, in having to pick up something and run with it, when one knows that that is just in order to keep to the Standing Orders. So we do endorse that measure. I do also support Simon Power\u2019s comments, though, about how easy it is to dismiss this sort of thing as being just housekeeping, when it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper is the matter that I find most interesting, for two reasons. The first reason is that the issue of split voting came up with regard to the smoke-free legislation especially, when a number of parties had split votes. We were written to by a number of constituents who wanted to know who had voted against it and who had voted for it\u2014for both sides of the argument. Of course, we found out from the Parliamentary Library that one could not actually give details of the names in split party votes. This provision will cause problems for members, because once one can give out that one voted against a bill, say the smoke-free legislation, one will have constituents writing to and emailing members, and demanding a reply. Second, Peter Brown said that some parties allow their members to split their votes. It is interesting, if one looks at the case that ACT took all the way to the Supreme Court to have Donna Awatere Huata evicted, to see that that finally almost rested on the fact that we had allowed split voting. Her argument that she still voted with the ACT party did not carry any weight in the court case in the end, because, of course, we have always allowed a split vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003ESo we will be supporting this motion, but we will have more to say on the motion that is coming up next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6c3bc0557624b56885f60045f81cda7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6c3bc0557624b56885f60045f81cda7\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I think that Deborah Coddington spoke for marginally longer than Peter Brown. I simply say that United Future supports this motion, including the split voting procedure set out in Supplementary Order Paper 387 in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00224f5f1da46571484996a41e35b17cd822\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f5f1da46571484996a41e35b17cd822\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the amendments to the Standing Orders relating to pecuniary interests of members of Parliament and the transitional provision for the initial returns for the register, as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 381, be adopted and agreed to and take effect on the day following the dissolution or expiration of this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis issue arose some little time ago. The Government made it clear that it was its desire to institute a register of pecuniary interests of members of Parliament. Ministers, of course, already have a register of pecuniary interests, and that has now dated back a very long time, indeed. I think the public has a right to know the nature of the pecuniary interests that members of Parliament have, and how that might relate to ways in which they cast their votes within the House. It is a matter of transparency in terms of the way we act within the Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThere was an initial indication from a number of parties that there would not be support to address this by way of the Standing Orders, and therefore the Government determined to introduce a bill, which was introduced\u2014the Members of Parliament (Pecuniary Interests) Bill\u2014and was referred to a select committee. I then received approaches from some parties indicating that while they did not support the changes themselves, if they were to occur they would much prefer they were done by Standing Orders than by way of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe reason for that was very clear. If this is part of the Standing Orders, then the Parliament remains in charge of its own destiny in that respect; whereas if it is by way of legislation, then there is at least a potential risk of some form of judicial intervention in these matters. I think that would raise some rather interesting and difficult constitutional questions, which, in taking off my Leader of the House hat and putting my Attorney-General hat on, I would much rather we did not get into at some future point. It is far preferable, in my view, for this to be done by way of the review of Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI actually want to thank those parties such as ACT and New Zealand First, which opposed the changes, for accepting that that was still a sensible method of moving forward on the issue, given that the Government did have a majority to pass legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI wish to thank the National Party for its support on this matter. I think we had some very useful discussions within the Standing Orders Committee about the particular nature of the interests to be included. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI do not think members of Parliament should be in the least alarmed about all of this. Indeed, one of the interesting issues that is going to arise, I think, for the incoming Government, whoever it may be\u2014and I will dwell on that matter a little bit later on this evening\u2014is whether a separate register of Ministers\u2019 interests, in fact, will be required given that this particular register is at least as comprehensive as the register of Ministers\u2019 interests. In the case of that register, for example, initially I put in the fact that I had shares within a collective investment fund\u2014a BNZ managed fund\u2014and was told I did not need to make that particular return. I must say I regard that as pretty strange, given that it is not an insignificant sum of money now that is contained within that fund. I think it is quite appropriate that if I am engaged in issues\u2014as I am as Minister of Finance\u2014that might have some tangential relationship to such funds, these people can clearly state, absolutely openly, that I do have an interest in that respect, which is one that, under our Standing Orders, does not preclude me from voting, because it is one share with a very large number of other people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI would much rather that than suddenly have someone in the National Business Review discovering I had such shares and turning that into some kind of peculiar banner headline of no significance, which I must say is sort of standard business reporting in this country, by and large. I keep trying to persuade the publishers of the Australian Financial Review that they should set up a new weekly business newspaper within New Zealand that has roughly the same kind of standard that the Australian Financial Review has in terms of business reporting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo members will be required to make a declaration of pecuniary interest that will cover a range of defined matters. The register will be published. The Auditor-General will review the returns and may inquire into matters if he or she thinks fit that that should be done. It will be published, and I think it is simply a quite straightforward measure, which has been done in a number of other Parliaments. And in a Parliament such as ours, which is very open and very transparent, this is simply another stage in that openness and transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbd8f15320594e0c99fdb20a1af091cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbd8f15320594e0c99fdb20a1af091cd\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party will be supporting this motion through Parliament this evening. This has not been a matter free of controversy, nor has it been a matter that has progressed smoothly and without hitches. As the Leader of the House pointed out, initially lack of support across Parliament meant that this matter was introduced by way of statute. It then became clear, as any Political Science 111 student would know, that a separation of powers argument was definitely going to enter into the fray, with the judiciary moving into areas concerning Parliament, which was not appropriate. All parties on the Standing Orders Committee, whether or not they agreed with the content of the bill, concluded that the delivery of this outcome was far and away more satisfactorily done by way of Standing Orders rather than statute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThere have been long discussions over the wording of these particular provisions and what they have meant\u2014particularly, I have to say, around the timing of the lodging of an MP\u2019s return, depending on whether an election was held, and on which side of July. I will acknowledge Rod Donald, because it is fair to say that that member put his back into this particular provision, and over a long period of time worked to convince the Standing Orders Committee of the merits of it or a variation thereof. Whilst Mr Donald did not always manage to achieve the result he wanted, I think it is probably fair to say that the intent behind the drafting of that particular provision was largely due to his efforts around that committee table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EOther amendments have been included, particularly around the definition of family members, in terms of debts owed to a member by those family members\u2014how wide that definition should be. We had some interesting discussions about the width of the definition of family that would not have been out of place in some other select committees, but the Standing Orders Committee, which is not known for its emotional outbursts, worked its way through those definitions pretty carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ELate in the piece an issue arose around debts incurred in the course of business, and whether those debts should be included if they would be settled within a standard business time period of approximately 90 days or thereabouts. Amounts around quantum of debt in the original legislation were amended by the Standing Orders Committee. Interestingly, long discussions were held, particularly with the current Speaker\u2019s predecessor, the Rt Hon Jonathan Hunt, about members\u2019 roles in organisations that apply for funding through Government agencies. This was quite a complex matter because a number of MPs are patrons of organisations in their electorates or in the areas they represent, and it took some time for members on the Standing Orders Committee to come across a formula that would work to prevent members who are simply patrons from having to declare interests, as opposed to members who were part of the management or the governing body of those committees, clubs, or institutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ESo quite a lot of thought went into these matters. I think the key, though, is that, to be consistent with other jurisdictions, an amount of transparency around members\u2019 interests was always inevitable, in some shape or another. I think that using the mechanism of the Standing Orders is an appropriate way to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9422dbbea9b4882bbb54ffc679d978b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9422dbbea9b4882bbb54ffc679d978b\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I listened intently to my colleague who has just resumed his seat, because he usually gives us some substance in his speeches or outlines a reason why a bill or an amendment is required. But this time he did not do a thing. He just said he gave the credit to Rod Donald for the merits of this amendment to the Standing Orders. He did not outline what those merits are, and we cannot find them. This is a nosy parker amendment to the Standing Orders. It will encourage nosy parkers, and Rod Donald is the prima donna when it comes to nosy parkers. He knows everything about \u201Cnosy parker-ing\u201D. He is the No. 1 nosy parker in this Parliament, so he welcomes this sort of amendment to the Standing Orders. It will discourage able, successful people from standing for Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b928bc6c129a409498c30089988e4452\u0022\u003EClayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: No danger for New Zealand First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d047b0da7dd4d00b1e0dedcc2044b37\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the Labour members do not know what such people are. They do not have any, so they do not have to worry about it. Nor do the Greens have any able, successful people standing for them. But New Zealand First has, and I have to say that from time to time one or two bob up in the National Party. So I wonder why it is supporting this sort of carry-on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThis is a case of much ado about nothing. There is little corruption in politics in this country, and the corruption that has occurred has been targeted, found out, and exposed. We do not have to have this sort of carry-on in order to declare a war on corruption. It has no relevance to that, at all. As I said, this is a nosy parker amendment to the Standing Orders. We would have preferred to see a bill. We would not have agreed with a bill\u2014we would have opposed it\u2014but we would have preferred to see a bill, for one honest reason: a bill, if and when it became an Act, could have been amended to embrace civil servants. Civil servants have greater influence on the Government than Opposition MPs\u2014far greater influence. There is a higher risk of civil servants having a conflict of interest that will affect Government legislation than there is when it comes to Opposition MPs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThis measure is a sop to the Greens. I hope it is the only one, because they will disappear at the end of this Parliament, and we can forget all about them. This measure is unnecessary; it is a mistake. It will encourage nosy parkers, and in the longer term it will discourage able people from putting their names forward to stand for Parliament. New Zealand First opposes this measure vehemently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022 data-id=\u002251d6cc68b2fd4ff9963744ed606da87a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251d6cc68b2fd4ff9963744ed606da87a\u0022\u003EROD DONALD (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to say that the Green MPs give their wholehearted support to Supplementary Order Paper 381, because, notwithstanding what Mr Brown has just said, the adoption of a procedure for members of the New Zealand Parliament to declare their pecuniary interests is long overdue. Ministers have had to declare their interests since 1991. They have been making an annual declaration. I do not think it has been altogether too arduous for them, and, clearly, it is not just Labour Ministers who have made such a declaration; National Ministers have, as well. Perhaps even Winston Peters was in Cabinet long enough to have had to make a declaration\u2014I am not sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EBut the point I want to make is that this is a very important step forward for our Parliament, and it is one that we should make, because organisations like Transparency International assess all the Parliaments in the world to determine whether Parliaments and the members of those Parliaments are corrupt, and I am pleased to see that New Zealand was rated the third least corrupt Parliament in the world. I am sure the fact that our Ministers\u2014the people who are most likely to get some benefit from outside organisations providing them with air tickets, meals, or other gratuities\u2014have had to declare those interests has given New Zealand the degree of transparency and accountability that it has, and such a good rating from Transparency International. By extending those provisions to all members of Parliament, I hope we will become No. 1 in the world according to Transparency International\u2014the least-corrupt Parliament anywhere on this planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EBut we have to kick off the new system before that can take place. I have to note, as I did in my first reading speech when this matter was still a bill, rather than an amendment to the Standing Orders, that we are well behind our colleagues across the ditch, in Australia. The state of Victoria has had legislation since 1978, South Australia since 1983, and the Senate since 1984.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241821d8a62684d129fc6b69987498dea\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f2cc8aa3eaa471bb65db4e697ec7dbf\u0022\u003EROD DONALD\u003C/span\u003E: What is more, I tell Mr Brown, given his ancestry, the mother of all Parliaments, Westminster\u2014the House of Commons\u2014has had pecuniary interest legislation since 1974. Maybe that is why he left and came out here\u2014I am not sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3657952-0eec-4a34-918d-677d93c1b281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c2ceac58f648efaf2dbb393c78ff9d\u0022\u003EIan Ewen-Street\u003C/span\u003E: Go back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271170a680ef24ab2b46747813e21a27c\u0022\u003EROD DONALD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not suggesting he goes back. That is what Mr Peters suggests that immigrants do. Mr Brown is very welcome to stay in New Zealand when the Greens become part of the next Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EThe new Standing Orders contained in the Supplementary Order Paper represent the politics of transparency and accountability. They are not, as Mr Brown claimed in his first reading speech, the politics of envy. It is extraordinary, in fact, for the deputy leader of New Zealand First strongly to oppose MPs being required to be upfront with the public about the financial interests that they may have, so that the public can judge their subsequent behaviour in Parliament accordingly, when Mr Brown\u2019s own leader is forever making false accusations about impropriety in the public service, in the business community, and amongst ethnic organisations. So, far from being nosy parker Standing Orders, and far from my being a prima donna on this issue, these are very common-sense amendments to the Standing Orders. The public of New Zealand expects us to meet high standards. We are, after all, public servants. We are the elected representatives of the people of New Zealand. We have a responsibility to set an example. Instead of New Zealand First accusing other people of not being honest, it is time that it practised what it preached.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EThe other party to oppose MPs disclosing their financial interests has been ACT. Mr Prebble\u2019s speech during the first reading was breathtaking. It was fire and brimstone, despite, of course, his new leader, Rodney Hide, having branded ACT as the perk-busting party. Of course, these Standing Orders are all about ensuring that MPs do not take perks. We have to acknowledge that Mr Prebble certainly will not be taking any perks in the future from Parliament, because he is about to retire. I suspect that Mr Hide will be gone, too, so he will not have to make a declaration after the election, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding however, the opposition from ACT and New Zealand First to the Supplementary Order Paper before us, I join with Mr Power in acknowledging that the select committee process was constructive. Although it took us some time to work through the current Standing Orders, as a result of that due deliberation they are robust, they will stand the test of time, and they will, I hope, meet with the public\u2019s approval and, I would also hope, the media\u2019s approval. The absence of the media in the gallery suggests that they are very relaxed about the steps we are taking in this regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e7bfee5-ac9c-4ae2-b85d-7d3b7a785561\u0022\u003EIn closing, I look forward to declaring my pecuniary interests when I return to Parliament with an even larger Green team after the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c51fb082830b4980812eda9ed8e69126\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c51fb082830b4980812eda9ed8e69126\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT party to oppose Government motion No. 3, which relates to the pecuniary interests of members of Parliament. What is the problem that this is trying to fix? All this will do is be a burden for the honest, who will agonise over it. It is so complicated and so badly drawn up that it is very difficult to see where to begin and where to end. It will build a climate of dishonesty. The crooks, who do not give a stuff, will just make it up anyway\u2014and who will have the time and energy to trawl through everything and find out whether members have been honest? It is like taking the rich list at face value. The rich list does not even take into account people\u2019s liabilities. All it can do is take into account their assets. The poor, diligent, honest MP who struggles to declare everything under this measure will possibly trip up, or by accident exclude something, and the media will pick it up, have a field day, and destroy him or her for no reason at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThis measure would not have caught Donna Awatere Huata. We asked her time and again whether she had any interest, any personal gain, and she lied to us. She would not tell us the truth. It would not have picked her up. If this Parliament really wants to get down on corruption, why does it not take note of what Ian Ewen-Street said yesterday when he talked about the scampi inquiry and Mr Peters\u2019 involvement with Simunovich Fisheries? That has never been fully explored. For instance, provision 4(1)(b) in new appendix B states: \u201Cthe name of every other company or business entity in which the member has a pecuniary interest \u2026\u201D. Is that direct or indirect? What if a member had shares in something like the New Zealand Investment Trust? That is a very respectable trust. If a member had shares in it, he or she would not have a clue about all the things that trust does. How on earth would one list them? How would trusts like that be listed? Land holdings are mentioned further on in this measure. If we tried to get information from members on all the land and property they own they would probably tell us to go away and mind our own business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI was very interested in what Rod Donald, the co-leader of the Greens, said. A moment ago he said that the Green Party stood for high standards and that it was the cleanest party in Parliament. They would have no trouble declaring their pecuniary interests. Why does Rod Donald not start by reading what we already have under Standing Order 164, which states: \u201CA pecuniary interest is a direct financial benefit that might accrue \u2026 as a result of the outcome of the House\u2019s consideration of a particular item of business.\u201D The Greens have a particular interest in high electricity prices. They opposed Project Aqua. They oppose any energy projects. Why is that? Because it is in their pecuniary interests to have high electricity prices, because of their financial interests, through their taxpayer-funded superannuation fund, in establishing the commercial viability of wind energy. They should tell us these things. If they do not tell us these things we have to go into Google to find them out. This statement is from a press release in May 2001: \u201Cthe Green Party\u2019s Superannuation Fund have joined the growing list of investors in local wind power company Windflow Technology. Windflow director \u2026 said \u2018We\u2019re delighted that the Greens are going to be part of our company. Windflow Technology is both environmentally and investor friendly,\u2019 \u2026 Rod Donald, said \u2018Our superannuation fund has a policy of ethical investing.\u2019\u201D Why do they not declare that when they come into this House to argue against any power project or development that anyone cares to put up, whether it be State-owned, or, heaven help us, one of the few private ones? Not only that, Jeanette Fitzsimons owns 30,000 shares in the Green Party superannuation fund. She is one of the top 10 shareholders. One of the biggest shareholders is UK millionaire, Sir James Goldsmith, and US billionaire Delane Wyeross also owns shares. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EBut they have directly benefited also from carbon credits. A subsidiary of Windflow Technology, New Zealand Windfarms, won Government backing of up to $10 million to set up a 60-turbine wind farm in the Manawat\u016B. This was in December 2003. Members should listen to what the business development manager\u2014[Interruption] It is not a scandal at all. I never said it was a scandal. I am just pointing out the\u2014we are not allowed to use that word, but the term \u201Cconflict of interest\u201D perhaps is a way to describe it when one stands up in this House and says that everyone has to declare their pecuniary interests, and everyone has to declare how much money they are owed over $50,000, and any debt over $50,000. I do not see the point in that. Why have it declared that someone owes a member of Parliament $50,000 or more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E Members will not have to declare it if it relates to a spouse, a partner, children, step-children, or foster children, so the dishonest ones will put all these things in the name of their spouses, partners, children, step-children, or foster children and get them to pay them. The very thing that should be declared, and the very thing we should be most suspicious of\u2014that is, electoral campaign expenses that could be covered up\u2014is excluded. The very thing we should be suspicious of\u2014where someone wants to try to buy one\u2019s vote\u2014is the only thing that we should be declaring, and it is excluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EBut I go back to this Greens\u2019 thing. The business development manager of the wind farm said that it would not have been viable without the Government\u2019s award of carbon credits. It was one of the two firms named by the Minister of Energy, Pete Hodgson, to take a share of 4 million carbon credits designed to cut greenhouse gas emissions. I think the public should know these things. The public should know that the Greens stand up in this House and accuse every other party, except Labour, of being dishonest and bordering on the corrupt, yet the co-leader of the Greens did not declare all of these things, which anyone can get on the website. The Greens are strangely silent whenever anyone brings the matter up, and it is an example of how this legislation is just a nonsense. There is no problem here that we have to fix. In general, most people who come into this place are honest. If they are not, then the media are not doing their job properly, because it is the job of the fourth estate to find out what is going on and report it accurately. ACT will not be supporting this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002206647485d24b4ee4b56b0b0a0e80e30c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206647485d24b4ee4b56b0b0a0e80e30c\u0022\u003ECLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call. I say two things to that member: she is leaving this place and she is moving to the fourth estate. I look forward to her expos\u00E9s both on Investors International and on the questions I have asked Mr Hide for 3 years about who paid his air fares to Fiji. I say to Ms Coddington: \u201CAin\u2019t that the pot calling the kettle black.\u201D For 3 years I put to Mr Hide questions about his interests in travelling to Fiji and attending a conference there, where hundreds of New Zealanders subsequently lost millions of dollars. To date, there have been no answers. It is the ACT party, of course, that will not support the Members of Parliament (Pecuniary Interests) Bill. I acknowledge the National Party\u2019s support for it. Anything that makes this Parliament more accountable and transparent is a good thing. But I just say to the ACT party\u2014the party of transparency, the party of honesty, the party headed by Mr Hide, the self-confessed scambuster\u2014that those things, transparency and accountability, must apply to our public service, our Parliament, our business people, etc. They must apply to everybody\u2014except, of course, to Mr Hide when his feet are put to the fire and questions are asked about him! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI close by saying that the bill is a good bill. It is an exceptional bill. It brings us in line with many Parliaments around the world. Sadly, of course, this bill will not do one thing: once it is passed we will still not gain the answers from Mr Hide about why he went to the said conference, about who paid his air fares, about who paid his accommodation, and about who paid the hospitality bill. This bill will apply only to members of Parliament who are re-elected. After the election we will not have the answers to those questions, because Mr Hide will not be a member of this Chamber; neither will any of those so-called honest, accountable, and hugely transparent members of the ACT party. I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc82cea8-c84d-4ab7-8597-31916dbedc43\u0022 data-id=\u0022b40ffcded7554a5bbbec843e4bac7138\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc82cea8-c84d-4ab7-8597-31916dbedc43\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b40ffcded7554a5bbbec843e4bac7138\u0022\u003EEDWIN PERRY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to draw the attention of the House to a very important part of the Members of Parliament (Pecuniary Interests) Bill. I have listened tonight to members from different parties reflecting on their interest and non-interest. But the amendment to the Standing Order reflects a very important part of the bill. The Standing Orders Committee received and considered four submissions from interested groups and individuals. We heard three submissions. Hearing the evidence took 1 hour and 32 minutes, and consideration took 6 hours and 52 minutes. If that is the priority New Zealanders put on the bill, then it makes me wonder why it is even going through. Next minute, nosy-parker parties like the Greens will want to how many damn cats we have at home. This is a ridiculous bill. A nosy party like the Greens should look at their own backyard. I just wanted to bring that particular part to the House\u2019s attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00223ca03453189a4682a423d104e09d2aa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ca03453189a4682a423d104e09d2aa9\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I signal United Future\u2019s support for the motion. We also support the issue of members\u2019 pecuniary interests being dealt with via an amendment to the Standing Orders rather than by way of legislation. That follows the United Kingdom model, and ensures that the question of MPs\u2019 pecuniary interests is a proceeding of Parliament and, therefore, an obligation on members of Parliament. They are then accountable to Parliament instead of to the courts, and that, as Dr Michael Cullen mentioned, is entirely appropriate. United Future is pleased with the amendments that are to be made, and especially that debts owed by family members do not have to be disclosed. That was a point raised by United Future, the family party. It was not in the earlier drafts of the bill; it was introduced at our suggestion. That measure is very important, because compulsory disclosure of loans made by MPs to spouses, partners, parents, a child, a stepchild, a foster child, or a grandchild would be an embarrassment, not to the MP but to the family member concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI was grateful to be part of the Standing Orders Committee, which very patiently and painstakingly worked its way through the issues. I was privileged, once again, to represent United Future in those deliberations. I am disappointed, however, that New Zealand First and ACT opposed the notion of a register of members\u2019 pecuniary interests. They gave two reasons for that. The first was that there was no evidence yet of any real or perceived corruption amongst parliamentarians, so they asked why the Members of Parliament (Pecuniary Interests) Bill had been introduced. But I ask why we should wait until we do have an instance of corruption involving MPs before we move. We would be wise to do so in advance, and to learn from other Parliaments around the world that have introduced registers of members\u2019 pecuniary interests in various forms. Registers have been adopted, for example, by Westminster and by other Parliaments. They have not, in fact, stopped well-qualified people from coming into Parliament. In Britain, everybody knows that William Hague, for example, a former leader of the Conservative Party, now makes several million pounds a year as an after-dinner speaker, while remaining an MP. He has to declare all that income. People actually think that is not a bad career path, so it has had the perverse effect of making the career of a member of Parliament seem more attractive to many people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe second objection is the one I have mentioned: that it would stop well-qualified people from coming into Parliament. I thought a bit about that, and asked myself this: what is meant by a \u201Cwell-qualified person\u201D? By \u201Cgood people\u201D, do we mean \u201Crich people\u201D? Rich people are not necessarily good people. I know some good people who are also rich, and I also know some rich people who are rogues. The same applies, by the way, to poor people\u2014some are good, and some are bad. Nor are well-qualified people necessarily those with a string of degrees. So what kind of people do we want to have in Parliament? My answer is that they need to be people who love this beautiful country of Aotearoa New Zealand, of which we are blessed to be citizens, and who wish to serve it as members of Parliament. Such people may want to see New Zealand prosper, as I do. They may want, as members of Parliament, to protect the environment, as I do. But most important, I believe, they should be people who want to ensure that relationships in this country between men and women, including those within marriage, between parents and children, and also between peoples of different races, languages, and religions\u2014and believe you me, everyone has a belief system, whether or not he or she calls it a religion\u2014are marked by charity and goodwill. Those are the kinds of people whom I think we want to see in this Parliament. So I have pleasure in supporting the Standing Orders that will give effect to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThis will be my last speech in this Parliament. I hope to see most members back here again shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ccbb771f7eeb4898a0ff42976b01ee7c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 97\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 27; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 16\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf96d4e367ee4a50aefa8d32e3ec462f\u0022\u003EAdjournment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002281e3858ceaa94e50865056dc493ca922\u0022\u003EAdjournment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002220c0c64664c04b2d97d2dc788d3aaecb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220c0c64664c04b2d97d2dc788d3aaecb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House do now adjourn until Friday, 12 August 2005. That is the traditional motion that is moved. The House, of course, will be dissolved on Thursday, 11 August.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI begin by thanking all the staff in this building, beginning with the Clerk and the rest of the Clerk\u2019s Office staff, including the Hansard writers; the security officers; and the messengers. I also thank you, Madam Speaker, and the other presiding officers of Parliament. Madam Speaker, your style of chairing is quite different from that of your predecessor\u2014but, in my view, a no less competent form of chairing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI thank also those parties that have been assisting this Government through a 3-year stable period\u2014in particular, United Future, which has stuck absolutely to its word in terms of the confidence and supply agreement. That, of course, is why it continues tonight to be savagely attacked by the National Party, which just might want to talk to United Future after the election, if National believes its own rhetoric about what will happen at the election. But, of course, that is the National Party: always treating everybody else like dogs and scum, but grovelling around people should it actually need them at some point within the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI want to thank also the Green Party, which has supported this Government on a whole range of progressive legislation. Indeed, I note that it has voted against us less often than United Future has, which has differentiated itself from the Government on a whole range of issues. I thank New Zealand First, particularly for its support in relation to the foreshore and seabed legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIt will be sad for some, perhaps, to see the back of ACT after this election, but it is summed up by the fact that tonight the ACT party voted \u201C3\u201D on the only division we had. As ACT is entitled to two proxies, if we subtract those from three, that leaves Deborah Coddington, who, of course, is the only person, apart from Richard Prebble, from the ACT party actually to give a valedictory speech. That shows ACT\u2019s commitment to this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis election that is forthcoming, and that we on this side of the House look forward to enormously, is one about leadership, credibility, policies, and the record. And our record is very good! We have achieved over 20 percent growth during our time in Government. We have averaged 3.9 percent growth versus 3.1 percent under the National Party Government. We have created 260,000-plus new jobs, and achieved one of the lowest unemployment rates in the developed world. At the end of National\u2019s period in office, all it could claim was that it had got unemployment back to what it had started with when it had become the Government in 1990. We have started reversing the unconscionable growth in poverty that occurred during the 1990s, whereby when National left office one in three of all our children was living in poverty. What does Dr Brash say about that? \u201CWell, sometimes poverty goes up and you have to live with that.\u201D\u2014if one wants the kind of policy that he believes in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe have increased by tens of thousands the number of surgical procedures being carried out in this country. We have put in place the new primary health care\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213a292496e0d445ab636ceccacd3106a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Sex-change operations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a78e73093461486484df7564e5d8ddb7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, some of those members obviously need it but simply have not turned up to get the treatment. I encourage them to do so. It is much cheaper now for most of those people opposite to get proper health-care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOf course, the one thing that they agree with us on\u2014they have to agree, if they are to pay for their promises\u2014is that we have governed fiscally in a highly responsible fashion. We have one of the best records in the developed world. We have reduced debt. Government spending is lower, as a percentage of GDP, than when we became the Government. I see that Dr Brash is giving me a signal; I say: \u201CPeace to you too, Dr Brash\u201D. He should remember that signal at the present time\u2014namely, peace. We have lowered Government spending as a proportion of GDP. Taxation is just about the same as it was when we became the Government. What National cannot get used to is the fact that if an economy has grown by more than 20 percent in real terms, then of course Government spending can go up by about 33 percent, while actually going down as a proportion of GDP. National members cannot do the arithmetic properly; I would not expect them to be able to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI look across at the Opposition benches. This Parliament has ended exactly as one might expect\u2014with the National Party in total disarray. Lockwood Smith was caught with his pants down. He spends his life trying to be caught with his shirt off, but this time he was caught with his pants down. Dr Smith\u2019s problem is actually the problem of the current National Party under Dr Brash\u2019s leadership\u2014that is, he cannot tell us what his secret desires are. It is the love that dare not speak its name\u2014the love for the atomic bomb and for nuclear power. We have known that, for 20 years, the thought of nuclear power coming to this country has brought a glow to Dr Lockwood Smith\u2019s cheeks\u2014I will not say which cheeks, but to Dr Lockwood Smith\u2019s cheeks. He wants to change the policy but cannot bring himself to say so. Just say it, Dr Smith! He wants to abandon the antinuclear policy, so that he can cuddle up to the Americans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDr Brash wants to do it, too. He wants to tell us that he wants to completely deregulate the labour market, but he will not say it. He wants to tell us that he wants to cut superannuation, but he will not say so. He has so many things he would love to tell us, but he dare not say them, because if he did, National\u2019s position in the polls would plummet almost immediately into the nether regions. Dr Brash came into this Parliament to rescue the National Party from its own dangerous centrist friends, as evidenced by Bill English. Now, he desperately tries to pretend he is not a far-right ideologist. My goodness me! The evidence is all there in speech after speech he gave as Governor of the Reserve Bank. [Interruption] The great thing about going to Christ\u2019s College is that one learns about the rich, and learns to realise that not all of them are rich because of their own virtue. Most of them are rich because they had the good fortune to choose rich parents. That is the main reason that people are rich in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo National has a leadership that, when it comes to credibility, had to say yesterday: \u201CI can neither confirm nor deny.\u201D\u2014Dr Brash not knowing how wonderfully appropriate that particular comment was. Asked whether he could remember Dr Lockwood Smith saying: \u201CPlease, sir, could we have some money for a think tank to persuade our people that nuclear weapons are a good idea?\u201D, Dr Brash said: \u201CI can neither confirm nor deny that.\u201D Goodness me! Dr Brash said that Trevor Mallard was telling porkies when he claimed that National\u2019s policy was written in Washington. Well, that \u201Cneither confirm nor deny\u201D phrase was written in Washington a long time ago. Of course, National\u2019s big policy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293fc520cac434f79a917c482a3aec29d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Get out of the gutter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7528d277744423aaadfc6d819bade6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: America is not the gutter. That is a terrible thing to say about one of our longest-standing friends and, at times, allies in terms of our history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo what is National\u2019s big policy at this election? It is to bribe the people with big tax cuts, but will National show us those tax cuts? No, it will not. Those members are a bit like this, Dr Smith\u2014not very big. Dr Brash has already promised over $1 billion of tax cuts, before National starts counting the real ones. Company tax gets a nod, carbon charge gets a nod, and tax rebates get a nod-nod. \u201CNoddy\u201D sitting over there is agreeing with me. National has already promised tax cuts of over $1 billion a year, and we have $1 billion to come, according to Mr Key. That is $2 billion\u2014it is quite easy; $1 billion plus $1 billion is $2 billion\u2014in promised tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESomehow all of this can be done without cutting spending on health, or education, or superannuation. What are the weasel words from Dr Brash? \u201CWe\u2019ll keep spending where it is this year, and it will go up each year.\u201D Well, I say to Dr Brash that health spending has to go up about $650 million a year just to keep current services and keep up with changes in technology; Mr English knows that\u2014$50 million will not do, $100 million will not do, and $200 million will not do. Education spending has to go up about $350 million a year to keep pace with demand, to pay increased salaries, and to do all the other things that we are supposed to do in an education system. That is $1 billion a year gone before one starts, out of that $1.9 billion allocation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe worm has turned, I think one can say. With the student loan announcement and the farce over nuclear ships, the National Party is staring defeat in the face. I will make a confident prediction that the day after the election Dr Brash will be gone by lunchtime!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022 data-id=\u00229129890e6fbf4f7198ed50f7bc75fdd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229129890e6fbf4f7198ed50f7bc75fdd6\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E That speech from Michael Cullen was full of half-truths, quarter-truths, and non-truths. It was full of self-satisfied, self-congratulatory claptrap designed to fool the public\u2014I will come back to that in a moment. Madam Speaker, let me also add my thanks to you, and to your colleagues, for the way you have conducted this often very unruly House in the last few months. I also thank the staff who keep this place functioning: the Clerk of the House\u2014and by that, of course, I mean \u201CClerk\u201D spelled with an \u201Ce\u201D\u2014David McGee, through to the Hansard reporters, the messengers, the telephonists, the drivers, the security staff, and all the rest. I give special thanks also to the staff of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EI also pay tribute to some of those who have given valedictory speeches here in the last few days. Roger Sowry has made a great contribution in this House\u2014and not just as an MP but also as a hard-working, conscientious, and compassionate former Minister. He will be sorely missed. Lynda Scott has been unable to give her valedictory speech this week because she is unwell, but she has also made a great contribution over the last 6 years, and would have made a fine Minister in the next National Government. I am personally sorry to see Richard Prebble go. He has been an extraordinary politician, and has left an indelible mark on New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EMichael Cullen has argued that Helen Clark\u2019s Government can take the credit for good economic growth over the last 6 years. No objective observer agrees with him\u2014not one. Treasury does not agree with him, the Reserve Bank does not, and the OECD does not. They recognise that growth over the past 5 years has been virtually identical to growth in the previous 5 years, despite two successive droughts and the Asian crisis in that earlier period. They recognise that growth in the past 5 years has been driven by factors Helen Clark can take no credit for, at all: high commodity prices, a low exchange rate, low international interest rates, and a flow of people into New Zealand after September 11. None of that has had anything to do with the performance of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EIn the adjournment debate of 1999, when Helen Clark was Leader of the Opposition, she said: \u201CI am not prepared to stand back and see the best and brightest of New Zealanders leave this country, taking their ideas and their businesses with them. We are going to build a future here for those people.\u201D Well, 6 years later New Zealanders are still pouring out of this country, and Helen Clark has stopped talking about that because she has done nothing at all to stop it. She used to talk also about getting New Zealand into the top half of the OECD within 10 years. She has stopped talking about that as well, which is just as well because there is absolutely no chance at all of New Zealand accomplishing that with its current policies. The New Zealand economy has already slowed down sharply, with growth in the 6 months to March this year of less that 1 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239921a9168a148b2bef83d1b907dd9c2\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Above the average. Better than you achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ae4c87c7c441578bf6ec8bcf0a15f5\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014to an annualised growth of less then 2 percent, I tell Mr Cunliffe. No reputable observer believes the New Zealand economy will grow at more than 3 percent a year for the foreseeable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EA Government cannot crank up growth overnight\u2014a Government cannot even crank up growth in 12 months\u2014but surely a Government can crank up growth over 6 years. Surely there should be some sign of an increased trend growth rate if current policies will deliver it. But, of course, current policies will not deliver faster growth. On current trends we will never again be in the top half of the OECD, let alone be there within a decade. As a consequence of that, the exodus of bright New Zealanders will not only continue but will grow. The student loan policy announced by Helen Clark will have absolutely no effect on that. Why is that? Because 94 percent of those holding student loans already live in New Zealand. Most people with student loans do not leave the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EWhen Helen Clark finally announced the election date last week, she said this election would be about trust, at least in part. New Zealanders trusted Helen Clark to improve our economy and stem the exodus of New Zealanders overseas. Well, she has done nothing to improve our growth rate or stem the exodus. She has failed to fix the Resource Management Act, she has failed to fix the infrastructure problems of this country, she has increased the bureaucracy, she has increased the tax rates, and she has increased the compliance costs facing the business sector. The exodus continues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275fd288ea23b4f50833f902278a6f392\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Bill\u2019s on the way back!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e493790542844eaa40817b991c4d2e6\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014and grows, I tell Mr Mallard. New Zealanders trusted Helen Clark to deliver a good-quality education system, but we have seen more resources channelled into the education bureaucracy while schools struggle with inadequate resources. We have seen the shambles of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement implementation, and we have seen prodigious amounts of money wasted in the tertiary education sector. New Zealanders have trusted Helen Clark to lead the country towards harmony and togetherness. Instead, we have State-sponsored separatism being extended from parliamentary electorates to local government, district health boards, and primary health organisations, with special privileges for M\u0101ori New Zealanders in legislation and in the funding of health care and education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003ENow the Labour Party has taken to telling half-truths and lies, as we have seen from Trevor Mallard and Phil Goff over the last week. Labour is desperate to avoid debating the issues of real concern to mainstream New Zealanders, and will stop at nothing to try to divert attention on to something else. That, of course, is what has been happening in recent days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d06ac940447d4f7db6152b8a63004f97\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s paying the bills? Who\u2019s pulling the strings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f535b45a831342408127434f27d5256e\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH\u003C/span\u003E: There is no American bagman, I tell Mr Mallard. National\u2019s policies are being written in New Zealand, I tell Mr Mallard, by New Zealanders in the interest of New Zealanders, and there will be no change in the antinuclear policy unless it is approved by referendum. I guess we can expect to hear more of those kinds of diversions every time Helen Clark or her Government get into trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EOf course, the Government has now started to throw bribes around. Less than 2 months ago Michael Cullen told the people of New Zealand that he could not afford tax cuts of more than 67c a week in 3 years\u2019 time, and all of a sudden he has found $500 million of extra funding for roads. National applauds more money being allocated for roads, but asks why it took the election campaign for Michael Cullen to find that money. Last week the extraordinary, and extraordinarily cynical, student loan bribe was announced. Nobody whom I have met regards that as a good policy. It is massively expensive, and it sends absolutely the wrong signals to students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EI am happy to make this election campaign about trust, and I am happy to make it about integrity and experience. It is true that I have had just 3 years\u2019 parliamentary experience\u2014about the same length as Bob Hawke had before he became Prime Minister of Australia\u2014but I have had long experience in the real world. I am more than happy to contrast my experience in the real world with the experience of Helen Clark\u2019s 24 years in Parliament and umpteen years in academia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003EThe reality is that this election campaign will offer New Zealanders a choice. That choice is between, on the one hand, a politically correct, social engineering, arrogant Government that has done nothing to improve our growth rate or to stem the exodus of Kiwis, and that believes it can spend our money better than we can, and, on the other hand, a party that offers New Zealanders a fresh start, with new faces, and without arrogance\u2014a party that wants to leave as much money in the hands of those who earn it as is consistent with the wider needs of society being fully met. The National Party is that party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d771f398c1e94edb86086b718b434661\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d771f398c1e94edb86086b718b434661\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to carry on where Dr Don Brash left off, because he has raised some points of considerable concern to New Zealand First. But, first of all, I take this opportunity on behalf of my colleagues to thank all the parliamentary staff. They have done an excellent job for all MPs. We are very impressed with them\u2014not only with their competence and their attitude to work but also with their friendly disposition under sometimes very difficult circumstances. So we would like to offer our thanks to all the people who work in the parliamentary complex, and that includes you, Madam Speaker. We recognise that in the short time you have been in the job, it has not been terribly easy for you, and on behalf of New Zealand First I would like to offer our compliments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EDr Brash, if I heard him correctly\u2014I will give him the benefit of the doubt\u2014accused people of lying. That concerns me, because I know that National Party MPs are saying that the seabed and foreshore legislation is not in favour of all New Zealanders. We helped the Government to produce legislation that is in favour of all New Zealanders, and there should be no doubt about that. Further, I heard today\u2014and maybe the National Party colleagues would like to confirm this\u2014that a candidate in Hamilton told an audience that he or she would give tax cuts by increasing GST. I ask National members whether that is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022397520c954cb4ae29b13578393cb5dfa\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It was the Green candidate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a78b17b9b34e5c98ce1604f961ba2d\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: They had better sort something out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIn April this year, in my own patch, I was a guest\u2014as were all the spokespeople on transport\u2014at the New Zealand Automobile Association conference in Napier\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd62ffc473884dbf81eefcc103ac098d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Did you hear it yourself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282cf402180440d8aeab9280f6f7f8f8\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I heard this myself. Dr Don Brash gave a speech to the conference in the early afternoon. This is what he said, and it is a direct quote from his speech: \u201CIn the late nineties, the last National Government lifted road spending to a little over 1.0% of GDP, by starting a process to move more petrol tax out of the consolidated fund into the road fund.\u201D That would not have occurred without New Zealand First, and Bill Birch is on record as saying: \u201COver my dead body.\u201D We were there. But it gets worse. Dr Brash said: \u201CAt that time\u20141998\u2014we said that, as circumstances allowed, more transfers would be made.\u201D New Zealand First alone said that. Dr Brash continued: \u201CLabour came in, and stopped the process.\u201D That is not true. It was stopped in the 1999 Budget by Bill Birch, and I am absolutely correct on that. When I confronted the leader of the National Party in the foyer of the auditorium immediately afterwards, he said: \u201CI don\u2019t know; I wasn\u2019t there.\u201D Those were his exact words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EFor the remainder of my speech, I want to give a bit of advice to all parliamentarians and all parties. I say to National that if it wants to take policies from New Zealand First we are quite flattered, but it should at least acknowledge it. It has taken large segments of our law and order policy, large segments of our Treaty of Waitangi policy, and large segments of our road funding policy. I have here the Hansard of Maurice Williamson from 1995, when he spoke on a Winston Peters bill about shifting money from the consolidated account to the roading account. I have his quotes here, and they do not bear any resemblance to what he is currently saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI say to the Government members over there that they are doing very, very well with the \u201CCullen fund\u201D. It has had a 14 percent return. I say to those members that they should invest some of it in their own country, and let this country get ahead. They might not get the 14 percent return, but they will get the tax take from getting the country moving again\u2014literally moving. The Minister got it half right by going to Tauranga and saying he would fund the Harbour Link project in part, but he should be funding it all. Those members over there who know anything about roading and road funding know that I am absolutely on the ball on that. That should be funded from the roading account. I say to the Labour members over there that they should use some of that money in the \u201CCullen fund\u201D to invest in this country, and we would all be better off. I think that Clayton Cosgrove has the message; I think he was giving me the thumbs-up sign\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224708a3084f3d4d9bbe67cd3301596041\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He hasn\u2019t even put \u201CLabour Party\u201D on his hoardings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226cd7d6d114247149cd661711caa720e\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: We cannot blame him for that, can we? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI want to give a little bit of advice to the Green Party. It should stand up for green issues. It should not leave it up to just us. It should not get involved in those loopy left-wing, socialist-type policies. It should stand up for green, environmental issues\u2014there are plenty of them. We need some help. New Zealand First cannot do it all on its own. That party over there is the party that adopted the name \u201CGreen\u201D, and it should help us on the green issues. We invite those members to show concern for the environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI want to give a little bit of advice to my colleagues in United Future. We have respected their strategy of sticking by the Government for 3 years, no matter what. We respect that United Future had a strategy, and that it said it would prop the Government up for 3 years, no matter what. United Future lost the cause on the prostitution legislation, but it stuck by the strategy. It lost the cause on the smoke-free legislation, but it stuck by the strategy. It lost the cause on the civil union legislation, but it stuck by the strategy. It did not get GST removed from rates, but it stuck by the strategy. It wanted to revise tax thresholds on income, and it got a little bit\u2014half a packet of chewing gum in 3 years\u2019 time\u2014and it still stuck by the strategy. It lost the cause on tax splitting, but it stuck by the strategy. I give the honourable members in United Future a little bit of \u201CWinston\u201D advice. [Interruption] No, not Winston Peters; Winston Churchill. He said: \u201CHowever beautiful the strategy, sometimes you should look at the outcomes.\u201D United Future has done this country a total disservice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, that advice from Winston Churchill should apply to us all: \u201CHowever beautiful the strategy, sometimes you should look at the outcomes.\u201D We are not getting the outcome out of this House that New Zealanders deserve. We are not achieving it. Members are sitting there, clapping their hands, and moving legislation that the average New Zealander is appalled at. I suggest to members that they go away from the House\u2014we are coming up to an election, as I am sure they are aware\u2014and talk policies that can advance this country rather than advancing the cause of MPs or any particular political party. Join us in New Zealand First and vote for this country. It is a beautiful country, and it is worth doing the right thing for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022 data-id=\u00223a5e8533d1ee4fdf95e53ebd3fec162c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a5e8533d1ee4fdf95e53ebd3fec162c\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I thought I gave my last speech yesterday, but 24 hours is a long time in politics, and I did say I would not rule out a come-back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251c9c68c7a3d4180b027766311514ee0\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: That was quick, Deborah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233547c07274c4bb09f13dc677351bca2\u0022\u003EDEBORAH CODDINGTON\u003C/span\u003E: It was a quick come-back. I do not muck around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the Clerk and the clerks, the messengers, the security service, Hansard, and, of course, the ACT staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EI listened to Michael Cullen give his speech just now. He was boasting about the economy, and I wondered whether this is as good as it gets. Is this as good as it is ever going to get for New Zealanders, if Labour can boast about it? If that is so, it is absolutely nothing to be proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003ELabour boasts about employment figures. Well, the reality is that hundreds of thousands of able-bodied, fit young men and women are wasting away on unemployment and sickness benefits. There is no excuse. If the economy is so good, why are those people wasting away on benefits? All that people need to do these days is to go to their general practitioner and get a letter. This Government has encouraged a policy of people going to their general practitioner and getting a letter, and then, as long as they are willing to drink two bottles of whisky a day, they can sit on a sickness benefit for the rest of their lives. Welfare fraud costs us $2 billion a year in this country. We could use that money. If we attacked welfare fraud, we could use the savings for tax cuts. We could get the top rate down to 33c and we could get all the rest down to 24c, just by attacking welfare fraud. That is without even touching the $7 billion surplus, and without touching all the horror scenes that the left always puts up, because as soon as we mention tax cuts they ask which hospitals and schools we will close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe Inland Revenue Department constantly reports that the black economy costs us $10 billion a year. It is the same morality. It is not the corporates that are ripping off the tax department; it is the same people as those who are ripping off the welfare department. If they are morally immune to ripping off the welfare system, they will feel the same towards ripping off the Inland Revenue Department. Even if we only halved that black economy, there would be another $5 billion. In Wisconsin, when the 40-hour week was brought in, the black economy disappeared overnight, because people on welfare chose a job rather than a cash job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EUnder this Government, crime has just rocketed. There is absolutely no faith in the police any more. We have seen one of the worst police Ministers that anyone\u2014even people older than me\u2014can remember. He has just sat there doing nothing, while people who dialled 111 have died because a cab was sent instead of a police car. The Minister of Police was given a list of suspected paedophiles on a disk by Interpol. He did nothing for 4 months. He just sat there. In the meantime public faith in the police has dropped to an all-time low. So what does the Government do? It goes out and has a massive public relations exercise. It rounds up a few celebrities and gets a few headlines with some celebrity drug busts, which Labour thinks will restore faith in the police. It will not, because the police are giving mothers who run their children to school in their dressing gowns tickets for speeding or for wrongly parking, yet when those same mothers get home and find that their houses have been broken into, it takes them 3 days to get a policeman to come. Anyone going to a police station to report a crime these days will find that the police are so under-resourced that they actually admit that people are better to go to their insurance companies and get paid out, because they cannot do anything for people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EEducation has become another way to hide unemployment. What used to be called night classes is now called community education or tertiary education. If people want to learn basket weaving or macram\u00E9, or if they want to go to a class that teaches them how to make a fire screen and a poker to match, they just have to roll up to one of those tertiary institutes and the Government will subsidise it and shovel money into it. It is called adult education\u2014\u201Ccatch-up education\u201D, \u201Csecond-time round education\u201D, or \u201Csecond-go education\u201D\u2014and it takes more money. Then it is let fall over\u2014especially if it is a w\u0101nanga and it is privately owned. More money is shovelled in, a blind eye is turned to all the waste and all the warning signs that are coming through, and it is allowed to fall over. Then it can be taken over, and its new owners can make it look like they are doing something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EPre-school education is in an absolutely shambolic state. This Government would wipe out the private providers if it could, but it knows that if it did, the not-for-profit providers would never be able to cope. The Minister of Education actually went out there and called private early childhood centres \u201CKentucky Fried Childcare\u201D. That is what his opinion of them is. He is so out of touch as Minister of Education that he thinks early childhood education is still about changing nappies and warming bottles. That is what he thinks. He will allow free hours of early childhood education only for those who take their kids to a not-for-profit, community-owned centre. It does not matter if the poor mum has to drive halfway across town to get there, and has to spend all her money on petrol getting there and back, as long as her kids are at a not-for-profit provider. This Government hates private enterprise. It hates profit, and it hates competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EIt has demoralised families and schools with its massive school closures up and down the country. The network reviews, for no good reason, closed schools that had got glowing Education Review Office reports. The United Future party, which calls itself a family party, sat there and did nothing while families were going through hell with their schools being closed. United Future, which calls itself the Christian, caring party, quickly took down its website, which had some very unchristian things on it, such as a statement that the Prime Minister should not be the Prime Minister, because she does not have children and she does not watch the rugby.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe first piece of legislation that this Parliament passed after I came in was a social welfare amendment bill, which provided that people could go on the domestic purposes benefit at the age of 18, that they would never have to seek work until their youngest child was 18, and that they could go overseas for 3 weeks and still get the benefit. The \u201CFamily Party\u201D, the United Future party, voted for it. It voted for that legislation. It was the first legislation to be voted on, and the \u201CPoodle Party\u201D voted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Education calls the National Certificate of Educational Achievement a triumph. It is a total disaster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003EBefore I go I would like to talk about the National Party. I remind the National Party that we do have MMP. I remind the National Party that when it and the New Zealand First Party fell apart in 1998, ACT supported the National Party. It was ACT that kept the National Party in Government, and it was ACT that stopped the country from going back to the polls. Without the ACT support then, National would have been back on the Opposition benches. National is campaigning in this election to get rid of MMP. The people of New Zealand own their votes\u2014not the two old parties. It is not a two-party race. I give a warning to the National Party, more in sorrow than in anger: if the National Party continues trying to kill off its future coalition partners, it will ensure that Dr Brash will not be the Prime Minister, and the National Party will be in Opposition. If the Labour Party gets 40 percent of the votes, it gets 52 seats. If the M\u0101ori Party gets 5 or 6 seats, we will quite likely have an overhang of 124 members. Does the National Party seriously think it will get 63 seats and team up with New Zealand First? Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e591b-8ffc-4539-a900-1ee22224f7d7\u0022\u003E The New Zealand public likes ACT\u2019s policies of targeting welfare abuse, of one law for all, of zero tolerance of crime, of a tax cut for every worker, of world-class education standards; those have been accepted, because the National Party and the Labour Party are promoting some of them, too. The country wants a change\u2014that is well known. But if it wants a stable, centre-right Government, it needs ACT there, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc889d18919145038c4dc5b1d7c61b30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc889d18919145038c4dc5b1d7c61b30\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As we reach the end of this term of Parliament, the second in which the Green Party has been represented here in our own right, we face an absolutely critical election, which will be held in a volatile environment, locally and internationally. Overseas, wars in Iraq and elsewhere simmer and burn. Millions live in poverty and continue to die of starvation, AIDS, and other diseases. The planet keeps getting hotter, and our ability to depend on fossil fuels as our main source of energy is starting to decline rapidly. Here in Aotearoa New Zealand we ignore all that at our peril. The general election, in just over 6 weeks\u2019 time, pales into insignificance when put it up against those global concerns. Yet, as always, it is in our own place that we can all try to make our primary contribution towards improving the state of the world. I hope our next Government will be one that prefers peace to war, that does not chase slavishly after American neo-conservative ambitions, and that continues to increase our own small contributions towards helping to deal with desperate poverty and environmental degradation in the world out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe have in front of us a stark choice at this election between a Government led by Don Brash and backed mainly by New Zealand First, or one led by Helen Clark and backed primarily by the Green Party. Those two possibilities present very different outcomes, and I hope people will consider quite deeply the kind of future they prefer. Unlike some of the other smaller parties, we in the Greens have made it quite clear where we stand. We will not support a National-led Government under any circumstances, and I am sure that National feels pretty much the same way about us. However, we will be open to negotiating an agreement with Labour, should it be open to that possibility. Indications so far are that it may well be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe nine Green MPs stand on our record through the last two terms of Parliament, and believe we have a lot to offer should the voters give us and Labour the possibility and opportunity to work together in the next Government. The Green Party brings with it to the table a kaupapa of environmental nurturing, social justice, non-violence, and participatory democracy. We have no bottom lines. Through both the Values Party and the Green Party we have maintained our principles for 3 decades, despite the oft-times derision and contempt of our political opponents. Now we believe we have reached the point where we are ready to give Government a go. Labour needs us, too; it is not a one-way street. Labour needs our commitment to a sustainable future and a fairer society, and our many ideas about solutions to environmental and social problems. A Labour - New Zealand First Government would look very different from a Labour-Green one. One only has to look at Winston Peters\u2019 approach to immigrants and refugees, or at his outright support for \u201Cforced work for the dole as fast as possible\u201D, to see the direction in which he would quickly like to take the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EAlthough over the last 3 years of this parliamentary term the Greens have basically been an Opposition party that has given support to the Government when we have seen fit, within that role we have brought a voice and a vision to Parliament and to public discourse that would not otherwise have been heard or visible. Our achievements in the last couple of years include our members\u2019 bills. Recently, Sue Kedgley\u2019s bill promoted flexible working hours, and now my own bill aims to repeal section 59 of the Crimes Act. Both of those bills are now before select committees. Our MPs also had a major input into the development of the Land Transport Management Act. We foiled the Government\u2019s plans to set up a trans-Tasman food regulatory authority based in Canberra, helped to stop Project Aqua on the Waitaki, put animal welfare, food safety, and waste reduction firmly on the political agenda, and supported civil unions, M\u0101ori Television, and the clean slate legislation. We have played a key role in the 2-year campaign to get Ahmed Zaoui out of jail. We have kept child and adult poverty on the political agenda, negotiated a Government commitment to an independent prison inspectorate, instigated an inquiry into cannabis, and catalysed the party pill legislation. We have kept pressing for the reduction of the student debt burden and for a universal living allowance for students. We have supported Labour on all its reforming legislation around accident compensation and workers\u2019 rights and conditions. We have consistently opposed the foreshore and seabed legislation, have got the Government to adopt a proposal for a community-driven national dialogue on the treaty, and have taken a leadership role on issues of human rights and peace. There is still no commercial release of GE into the environment of this country. A new monitoring programme for the use of GE in food has begun, after years of Green lobbying. Green-Government cooperation on transport issues has assisted in achieving the buy-back of the rail track, action on vehicle emissions screening, and a big boost to Auckland rail and bus services, including bus and cycle lanes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOur MPs have continued, as we did in our first term here, to take a principled stand on issues, and not to trade between them. Nor do we get into personal stoushes here in the House. We are here to make a serious contribution. That is what we have done and will continue to do after 17 September. There is a lot of unfinished business. Just in my portfolio areas alone, I am aware of legislation like the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, which would reform and improve the law for people living in boarding houses, but which has sadly lingered on the Order Paper for years and still has not seen the light of day in this House, for reasons unknown to me. The New Zealand Sign Language Bill and the Disabled Persons Employment Promotion (Repeal and Related Matters) Bill also languish on the Order Paper. I am sorry that those two bills, both of which are geared towards improving the situation of big groups of people within the disabilities sector, have not quite made it out of the gate. As with the three bills I have just named, my own bill to repeal section 59 of the Crimes Act and remove the defence of reasonable force, which allows parents to seriously beat their children and get away with it, legitimised by the State, will survive only if we end up with a new Parliament that supports continuing with such legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThis year the Green Party is campaigning hard for the return of political parties to this Parliament that can work together in a cooperative and consultative way, for the common good. Our kaupapa and our people can help to give Labour the heart, soul, and spine it needs, not only to push through some of the legislation that has been left half-done but also to instigate a whole lot of new and positive progress on social, economic, and environmental issues. We would like to have the opportunity to do more to protect our native plants and animals, and to restrict the sale of high country land and coastal property to New Zealand citizens and residents. It is critical that we speed up progress on the protection of our marine environment, and nurture our coastal fisheries so that anyone can go out and catch a fish for dinner again. We must prepare for the end of cheap oil, by future-proofing New Zealand against the shocks to come, through our energy, transport, and housing strategies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is committed to doing everything we can to bring an end to endemic child poverty, the legacy of the last 2 decades, which still affects over 20 percent of our country\u2019s children, even after 5\u00BD years of a Labour Government. The minimum wage should be put up to $12 an hour immediately. We would very much like to see the introduction of a universal child benefit, like the old family benefit, and our income support system should be enough for people to actually live on, without going endlessly into deeper and deeper debt. We will continue to oppose GE food and GE releases into our environment. We will do everything we can to protect and nurture taonga M\u0101ori, including the foreshore and seabed and areas threatened by inappropriate mining. Our waterways should be safe for swimming and for collecting kai for the wh\u0101nau. The food our children eat should be fresh and healthy. And there is so much more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party stands in Parliament to give a voice to those who often have not had a voice in this place: children, people who have mental illness or other forms of disability, and people who have been abused or raped. We stand here for prisoners, refugees, migrants, unemployed workers, beneficiaries, and also for the non-human lives of our world, which are totally defenceless here unless we humans give them expression. The Greens can and will add enormous value to the next Government. We intend to be back very shortly. We will be bigger, bolder, and stronger, and ready to continue our work for a future that will work for us all here in this land, and for all the species that share it with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8ac455ca5e84cc6bb2a8000dec45ae2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8ac455ca5e84cc6bb2a8000dec45ae2\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take part in the adjournment debate on behalf of United Future and, in particular, on behalf of the Hon Peter Dunne, who is unable to be with us tonight. I start from a position of gratitude\u2014firstly, to my colleagues for an amazing 3 years. To come to Parliament with one statesman and seven rookies was a pretty unusual start for a party. We have had a wonderful journey and we are very grateful to each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe want to thank United Future party officials. Those people have worked tirelessly for us for 3 years and continue to do so at an increased pace right now. They do not get salaries at the end of the day but work in a very fine way, because they are committed to the cause of New Zealand families, as we all are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe would like to thank our new affiliated partner, Outdoor Recreation NZ, which has added strength to our party policy. Its members, the \u201Cbright greens\u201D, have given us some common-sense conservation policies, and have given voters a chance now to vote for conservation-based policies without having to be pro-drug or anti-trade in their ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe also want to thank our staff, who have been amazing, and who have supported us in amazing ways. In particular I thank our research team, who include some of the most amazing young people I have ever had the privilege to work with. We want to thank the Clerk\u2019s Office, and we want to thank you, Madam Speaker, for the way you have so smoothly taken over your new role and provided support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EAs we go into this election campaign, I want to reiterate what other members have said\u2014that there is unfinished business. Certainly, United Future believes that we have much unfinished business to continue after the election, particularly in the area of family outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EFamily law in New Zealand still needs a huge amount of work, and the Care of Children Act was a wasted opportunity to do that work. It is unbelievable that in New Zealand right now there is no clear legal path by which a father can ensure that he is named on a child\u2019s birth certificate, and that the power for that decision still remains in the hands of the mother, who can put huge legal obstacles in front of a father who genuinely wants to be part of his child\u2019s life. United Future is committed into the future to seeing that changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe also want to bring to the attention of the House, as we finish this 3-year period, the amazing work of kinship caregivers. In particular, I want to give credit to the members of the Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust, who have been valuable lobbyists for me during the last 3 years. Those people\u2014thousands of them in New Zealand\u2014are some of the unsung heroes of our nation. They are people who give up a whole season of their life to take over, under difficult circumstances, extremely traumatised children, and who are yet to be acknowledged by the State by being given full foster-care status, so that they may receive the financial benefits they desperately need at a time of life when they are often on fixed incomes. Again, that is another family cause on which United Future is committed to seeing improved outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future wants to thank the Sensible Sentencing Trust for the relationship we have had with it. We want to remain committed to the victims in New Zealand families who, I believe, are yet to receive the full support of law they deserve. Until the law in this country becomes victims-focused, we will not see the kinds of outcomes we need. We need to see a complete restructuring of our legal system. Having 30,000 cases backlogged in our court system is a complete nonsense and makes no sense. Victims certainly feel re-victimised by the lack of action in our court system. We want to be part of the ongoing work to see that situation improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI also want to bring to the House\u2019s attention the fact that although we believe that United Future has been able to make a series of sensible contributions to the improvement of the very dysfunctional Government department, the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, we believe there is still a long way to go. For every James Whakaruru and Coral Burrows who comes to the public\u2019s attention, every week\u2014without a lie\u2014I have had a letter from a family whose children have been removed by that department for reasons that seem shabby and shaky. It is years, sometimes, before those decisions are reviewed and those people get their children back. [Interruption] Yes, sometimes the decision is right, and we are not trying to undo those situations when it is right. But too many families have had their children removed for reasons that are unclear, and have waited a long time for a review of their cases. We want to show our gratitude to the many community organisations and non-governmental organisations that are working in the area of child protection in this country and working with families to improve outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future remains committed to New Zealand families. We believe, for instance, that couples who are raising dependent children must get the chance to hold on to more of their income through the process of income splitting. It is absolute nonsense to say that somebody who earns $40,000 and supports only himself or herself needs the same tax breaks as somebody on $40,000 who is raising three children and who has a dependent partner. We must start to have a tax system that reflects the number of people being supported by each income, and income splitting is an amazingly good way to go about that. It is fair and it gives recognition and value to a parent who chooses to spend some time at home doing the all-important task of raising children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EBoth the Labour Party and the National Party have a lot to answer for with policies that provide all the incentives at the other end of the spectrum\u2014towards subsidising people to put their children into proxy childcare rather than providing any financial incentive to have their children raised at home by one of the parents. Income splitting is one of the best opportunities for that, and there are National Party candidates standing at this election who support us on that policy. We know it, and we believe that the National Party should have a serious look at the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe are about to discover in the next few weeks whether keeping one\u2019s word makes a difference to New Zealand voters. Until 2002 the experience of MMP in this country was that smaller parties providing support either imploded on themselves or \u201Ctantrummed\u201D and threw their toys out of the cot when they did not get their own way, thus bringing down the Government of the day. They were punished severely by the voters at the next election for so doing. We are about to find out whether the voters see some value in a party giving its word, keeping its word, and sticking to the agreement it has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI find the comments made by the deputy leader of New Zealand First absolutely ironic. That party has one of the worst track records in this Parliament\u2019s history for poor behaviour, and once absolutely held the country to ransom for 9 weeks, followed by scandal after scandal with late-night drinking binges and with the whole media fiasco seen by the nation. He stood up tonight at the end of this 3-year term and made fun of a party that kept its word, when after this election he is dying for New Zealand First to get the role United Future has had with the major party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EStability is something that should not have too small a price put on it. The OECD credits New Zealand with having had 5 of the most prosperous years in its measurable history. One of the main reasons the OECD has given for that is that we have enjoyed 3 of the most stable years of Government in our MMP history. United Future is hugely proud to have been part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EBut we want to put both Labour and National on notice right now, because neither party is automatically entitled to our support after this election unless it is prepared to look very seriously at the policy planks on which we are going into this election campaign. Those things are not to be dismissed lightly at the end of this term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223464ff4785f94b6caa690e42e5bef5e0\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Are they bottom-line?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a5b1028ce7d483ca126c53c618c1bce\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, some of them will be bottom-line. We have made it very, very clear that the retention of the Families Commission, and the maintenance of the current status in law of cannabis, are bottom-line issues for us, and we will certainly be bringing other issues to the table. We appreciate, as does no other party, that we will have to wait and see what window of opportunity exists after this election. Whether it is a centre-right opportunity or a centre-left opportunity, we will have policy planks that are achievable in the following 3 years for New Zealand families. We are excited about those prospects, and we are very willing to work cooperatively, but if either of the major parties feels that we are some sort of political pushover and that the things written in our policies can be traded off\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Brownlee that we are very proud of the fact that we can hold up pages and pages of accomplishments that United Future has achieved in the last 3 years. Some of them are clauses in bills that would not have existed if we had not been pushing for them. We are very proud of that. Those are the kinds of accomplishments one gets when one works cooperatively. Mr Brownlee might be very, very pleased with our track record, should he manage to drag his party over the appropriate line after the election on 17 September. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, thank you for all you have done in this debate and in the time you have been leading this House. We wish everybody in Parliament well for this next period, and we hope that everybody has a safe and exciting journey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022937313be320342038eef28962c5059a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022937313be320342038eef28962c5059a0\u0022\u003EHon MATT ROBSON (Deputy Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I hope you do not take umbrage if I do not make effusive statements about the job you have done. You have done it well, but we expected, when we elected you, that you would make improvements on those who had gone before you. Besides, when people receive effusive statements from their colleagues, they know that the axe may soon be falling on them\u2014as I am sure Bill English would attest to in his time, and as the ghosts of leaders past would also attest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThe general election is an opportunity for everybody to have an equal say on the type of society we want to live in and on the type of society we want to pass on to our children and grandchildren. Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive Party\u2019s campaign launch is on Sunday week, on 14 August. All are welcome. It will be in the Tamaki electorate, in which I am campaigning for party votes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EI am proud to have worked alongside Jim Anderton since the day he led the establishment of an independent, progressive-left party in Parliament back in 1989. When Progressive MPs are returned in the next Parliament, then the independent progressive left will have been represented in this House of Representatives for 19 years, which is a full generation in biblical terms. Progressive is left of Labour on the issues of most importance to working families\u2014that is, access to universal education and health services, and building an active role for democratically elected Governments to help in the transformation of our productive capacity as an economy, so that by working intelligently together with industry and agriculture, we are able to create the number of jobs we need to become a full-employment society in New Zealand. That is the most progressive and social democratic goal that any political party could have, and it is one that, of course, is Progressive\u2019s top goal: full employment and making poverty history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EOur party stands for putting the common and public good ahead of vested, and financial and sectarian, interests. That is why Progressive puts young people and vulnerable people first, and why we are not afraid to upset the liquor advertising and liquor marketing sectarian groups if we have to, in order to give the coalition Government a real spine in the campaign to reduce the harm caused by alcohol consumption within our communities. Progressive is campaigning for party votes so that my bill on our youth binge-drinking problem is not buried by a reactionary Government that does not care enough about the people, the family, and the communities that are being hurt daily by our biggest drug problem: alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EProgressive is campaigning for an investment to cut the company tax rate to be in line with Australia, because we want more private sector investment in research and development and in jobs. We want to ensure that New Zealand prospers in the global market so that we can afford First World, social democratic type education and health services for all. The Progressive Party is campaigning on a much more ambitious first home policy to do more for low-income families to get over the deposit gap hurdle between them and their first home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EProgressive is delighted that Labour, our colleagues in Government, recognised in 2005 the damage of the higher and higher, fee-paying tertiary policy that was introduced in late 1989. Progressive is campaigning on a platform to cut the debt monkey off our graduates\u2019 back in return for them working in New Zealand and using their skills to build up the regions of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EProgressive looks forward to helping Labour deliver the common left position now, which is to move away from the policies of the last user-pays Government of 1984-90. Labour has governed in coalition with Progressive over the past 3 years and in coalition with the Alliance of five left parties between 1999 and 2002. Over the next 6 weeks, 50 Progressive candidates and I will be campaigning for a historic, third-term left-wing coalition Government. We will be campaigning for a further expansion and deepening of the industry and regional development programmes, and the spectacular regional initiatives around the country, none of which existed until the independent left party in this Parliament won over doubters and sceptics and built up the majorities we have always needed to deliver genuinely progressive policies for the benefit of all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EI am looking forward to having the opportunity to explain the next steps that the Progressive party would like to see delivered by our next coalition Government. The only way that a strategic, asset-selling, pro-war, National-led Government could be established under MMP is if New Zealand First emerges from an election in the position to deliver a National-led Government. That is why we are campaigning for no party on this side of the House to go into coalition with a Government that New Zealand First takes part in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EThe low point of this Parliament has been the attack on the Muslim communities, and on other communities in New Zealand, by the leader of New Zealand First, who yesterday in this Parliament would not meet the two men whom he had grievously slandered as New Zealand citizens, saying that they had been complicit in crimes against humanity committed by the Government of Saddam Hussein. He skulked in this Parliament, he skulked in the building, and he would not meet the two men about whom, for 2 months, he has refused to put any evidence forward as to why he has so grievously slandered them and their communities. That is the lowest point for this Parliament, and that party has gone below a moral line that I think no other parties in this Parliament\u2014no matter how much I disagree with them\u2014would ever go below. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EI should like to say briefly that the progressive left has lost a good, solid member in Ian Ewen-Street. He has many qualities\u2014amongst them, of course, his being Australian-born. He is a man who has always kept his head down and worked hard, and I have very much appreciated his vote in favour of Progressive\u2019s Sale of Liquor (Youth Alcohol Harm Reduction) Amendment Bill proceeding to a select committee. I thank Ian Ewen-Street and I wish him all the best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5d9f81e-8fbc-419b-8f03-d0c6abebb8d2\u0022\u003EFinally, I extend my best wishes and those of the Progressive Party to those who have given their valedictory speeches, and I wish them all the best as they are rehabilitated back with their families and communities and into a new environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022dee1327a83e449b58544985e42c9ac5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dee1327a83e449b58544985e42c9ac5b\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Listening to the speeches tonight from the ACT party, the Progressive Party, and United Future, I suddenly became aware of why the Nigerian scam men send so many emails to this Parliament. It is because there are literally tens of MPs here who believe that their electoral chances are so good that they will be back. It is interesting to note that those who will not be back are those who have seriously failed their constituencies. I want to say to Deborah Coddington, who had hard words for the National Party, that she should go back to the mirror and look at the ACT party. She should go back to see what drove the ACT party into Parliament in 1996 and the member will be able to see what that party lost, forgot, and is now being cast on the scrap heap because of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI want to discuss in the rest of my speech some of the issues raised by Michael Cullen. Michael Cullen claims that the Government will be re-elected because of its extraordinary economic success. It must be one of the only Governments in the history of this Parliament to go through the revolving door of economic success on someone else\u2019s shove, because during its 6 years in office, it has done all it possibly can to prevent people from taking the best advantage of what this economy has to offer. A National Party in Government will have a clear plan for how this country can grow at an even greater rate than is currently the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI say to the Government that the one thing it cannot get past is that the wealth gap between this country and Australia has widened during the term of its government. That is why 600 young people cross the Tasman each week for a better life, and why so many people here decide that this is not a country that they want to do business in. That issue is perhaps crystallised to the greatest extent when we look at the M\u0101ori constituency, which has been so loyal to Labour for so long. Labour will lose the M\u0101ori seats in this election. Those seven seats will go to the M\u0101ori Party. I have no doubt about that, at all\u2014not only because of the seabed and foreshore issue, which I think was the issue that perhaps galvanised M\u0101ori into looking at Labour, but because when they looked, they started to see what Labour\u2019s activities in relation to them were. They saw the patronising, paternalistic approach that Labour has to most New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori in this country today are a group of people who earn, on average, $7,000 less in income than non-M\u0101ori. Labour has done nothing but sit and watch that gap grow wider throughout the last 6 years\u20146 years of not addressing the issues that New Zealanders, M\u0101ori included, want addressed, and 6 years of dividing us racially through its very paternalistic programmes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI am delighted that the Prime Minister has gone out and said that this campaign will see candidates fight the election on the issues of trust, experience, and integrity. Well, Dr Brash outlined some of those, but when it comes to trust, it is simple and easy for us to point out that New Zealanders trusted Labour in education and got the National Certificate of Educational Achievement debacle. They trusted Labour in education and got the w\u0101nanga blowout. They trusted Labour in education and got universities absolutely screwed for funds. They trusted Labour in health care and got longer waiting lists. They trusted Labour to deal with the issues around social welfare, and, as the insider, Judy Turner, told the House tonight, it is a seriously dysfunctional department. That is the sort of trust one gets from Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders trusted Labour on defence and got Project Protector. We got the light armoured vehicles. What about those light armoured vehicles? We have all those light armoured vehicles and do members know that only 18 of the 105 are operational? They do not have the personnel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d1c8f5c933a4960a8386922ce385b20\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be stupid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d9793f9a6f410aa4e7f04170ffda9d\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell the Minister over there, who thinks that he has been a marvellous Minister of Defence, that I ran into a private from the New Zealand Army while I was out canvassing the other day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf6c2281ae944cbe80c1dc096f418952\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: What did he say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255cd9863c1894b349756377baefd5bd1\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: He said: \u201CMr Brownlee, are you going to do anything about the wages and salaries for the military?\u201D. I said: \u201CTell me what the situation is.\u201D He said: \u201CWell, I\u2019ve got three guys that I\u2019m at work with in the Army all coming to the end of their sign-on term all about to leave. They are going to Australia to join the Australian Army\u2014young men about 25.\u201D Interestingly, the salary increase for those young men will be about $27,000 a year. That is why they are going. So even in our military\u2014in our armed forces\u2014we are losing young, capable people to Australia day by day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo let us talk about the experience that the Labour Government wants to tout. Well, as I said the other day in the general debate\u2014[Interruption] That is David Benson-Pope yelling over there\u2014the Billie Jean King of the Labour Party\u2014bouncing up and down in his seat as usual. I want to talk about experience. As I said in the general debate the other day, one sums up the experience of this Government, generally, in a series of two words: \u201CGeorge Hawkins\u201D. That is what one gets for experience, a Minister of Police who had a 111 call answered by a cab; a Minister of Police who hides day by day from Parliament\u2019s scrutiny by saying: \u201CThat\u2019s an operational matter.\u201D, and a police commissioner who is such a blatant lackey for the Prime Minister that it is surely embarrassing. He is a man who has a very short career ahead of him. When one talks about experience one could also use the words \u201CTrevor Mallard\u201D, because there are tens of thousands of young New Zealanders who do not know whether their secondary qualification has any great validity. That is what Mr Mallard has done for the education system. That is what experience does for one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen there is the issue of integrity, and we come straight to the Prime Minister on that one: \u201Cpaintergate\u201D, \u201CBathgate-gate\u201D, the Yelash allegations, the allegations against the Auckland surgeon\u2014so many things. And then this week, to cap it off, a Prime Minister who said: \u201CWe were travelling at 170-plus k\u2019s in a car. I had no idea. I was so engrossed in conversation with Jim Sutton that I didn\u2019t notice that they were travelling at such an excessive speed. And when at the other end of the journey I got out of the car and said to the police officer: \u2018That was a courageous trip.\u2019, I didn\u2019t know why I said it.\u201D So we have five policemen and one civilian in the court because Helen Clark has not got enough integrity to take responsibility for her own actions. So on trust, experience, and integrity the campaign is going to be a lot of fun from our point of view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI tell members something else. One generally knows whether one is in the political frame. Politicians have a nose for it. And I tell members that National is very much in the frame. National will win the next election, and National will form the next Government. Ask Clayton Cosgrove. He will not even put the word \u201CLabour\u201D on his hoardings in his electorate. Ask Darren Hughes, who has been getting the door slammed in his face in his own electorate. Mind, he has been out only half a day, and he will not take any more of that! Ask so many of that Labour backbench what sort of reaction that they are getting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHere is a name for the nation\u2014it will be one people have not heard before\u2014\u201CMartin Gallagher\u201D. He is a dead duck in his seat. Even Tim Barnett has to work his feet off trying to gather some votes in his own electorate. One knows when it is on, and when it is off, and it is on for National. So I to say to the Labour Party: bring out the lies, bring out the mistruths, bring out the red herrings, dry them on the table; they will not count. At the end of the day, New Zealanders are not silly. They know that they are overtaxed. They know they are over-controlled. They are sick of it, and there will be a change of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e028d0e4be2f49a89e6a42878a8bcc42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e028d0e4be2f49a89e6a42878a8bcc42\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E For those many millions of New Zealanders who are at home now with their ear glued to their radio listening to the end of Parliament\u2014as New Zealanders so often do; they want to tune in to hear the best of speakers in this nation\u2014that was the once great Gerry Brownlee. I noticed the other day that the newspaper said: \u201CWhere was Gerry Brownlee? Where has he gone? That great voice from the south has been silenced by so many things that have gone wrong. He must be marginalised.\u201D I think he has been, and that performance tonight seemed to me to be a defeatist speech. That is what came through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI am delighted to take part in this speech at the end of this Parliament. It is great to be here with the House packed, the galleries overflowing, and people tuned in all over the country to listen to this speech. It is one of those rare opportunities to speak to one of those mega audiences that, of course, we want to speak to during the election campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EBefore I begin my substantive comments, I thank you, Madam Speaker. You have been the best looking Speaker in that Chair for a very long time. I think you have controlled this House with real style since you have been in that particular Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E I say to all my colleagues in the House who are about to campaign that I wish them well, and I mean that genuinely. We as New Zealanders are about to go back to the hustings to do something that in many countries simply could not happen, which is to put before people what we think is the best way forward for them, their families, their communities, their businesses, and their country. We will do that within a democratic framework, and the people will choose. We enjoy that very, very important right, and we should go out and do our best for the people of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EOn behalf of everyone on this side of the House, I thank those members who will not be returning\u2014some of whom have already given their valedictory speeches\u2014for the service they have provided to the House. I know from the many people who have left the House over the years that, whether or not one disagrees with them, they all came here honestly to do their best, and that is a very, very important thing for us to acknowledge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EAs many people have said, there are 46 days or so to go before we go to the polls and, as Donald Brash has said this evening, it is a real choice. It is a real choice this time. There is a choice out there for people to say whether they want to carry on with policies that for 6 years have made a real difference to their lives, or whether they want to take a radical departure from that pathway and go off in a different direction. I emphasise that. This is not a choice about fine-tuning or about personnel; this is, as Dr Brash has so rightly said, a fundamental philosophical choice between a party that wants to slash taxes\u2014and by doing so set the scene for slashing services that people rely on for health, education, roading, and all of the things that we feel are precious in this country\u2014versus what we believe on this side of the House, which is that every single New Zealander needs the opportunity to do the best with his or her life. People can do that only if the foundation is laid by proper investment made by a sensible, wise, astute Government, which is what we have tried to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EPeople on the other side of the House say they have an agenda, but it is a gone-by-lunchtime agenda. Over the years Mr Brash has revealed an agenda to people around the country through his speeches, comments, and so on that he does not want to reveal now. He would have sent to troops to Iraq. That is what he said. He said he would not have nuclear ships in our harbours\u2014oh, he would have nuclear ships in our harbours. He is someone who does not believe in 4 weeks\u2019 holiday for hard-working New Zealanders. That will be gone by lunchtime\u2014and lunchtime will be gone by lunchtime, as people say. What about the minimum wage\u2014does he believe in that? It will be gone by lunchtime. Does he believe in public schooling? It will be gone by lunchtime. Does he believe in free health-care for New Zealanders? Does he believe in public investment in hospitals? They will be gone by lunchtime. That is the agenda for the National Party. That is what Donald Brash stands for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EDon Brash does not stand for the kinds of advances made in a civilised, progressive society. He believes that all of that should be swept away. It is the last gasp for the people who tried so hard to capture New Zealand for the private, large, international business interests that had tried through the 1980s and 1990s to capture Governments and to drive that agenda. They could not do it with Bill English, because he was more like us than the National Party is today, but they can do it with Donald Brash. Donald Brash believes the country should be made fit for the few. He does not believe that it should be made fit for the majority. He is prepared to deliver those people that agenda. That is what he is coming back for. That is why he is coy about his agenda\u2014he knows that the majority would never vote for that agenda. The thing that will make the difference here, of course, is that New Zealanders will not vote for him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI say sorry to Mr Brownlee, but he is wrong. It is wishful thinking. The National Party is not in the frame unless it is being framed to be put above the mantelpiece along with the other beheaded chooks that have been put up there over the years. It is not going to happen, and this is why: every single member in this House will go back to an electorate where things have never been so good. That is why. Do people remember what Franklin D Roosevelt said to the American people? He said: \u201CI want to ask one simple question. Are you better off after this Government\u2019s term?\u201D. Is there any electorate in this country where the halls will not be full of people who will say: \u201CFrankly, I am better off after 6 years of a Labour-led Government. Frankly, my business is better, my family is stronger, the schools are better, my roads are being built.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EWe should just flick around the electorates. Let us take the example of youth unemployment in Rick Barker\u2019s electorate. There were 10 unemployed people who were categorised as youth; there is one now. Nine of them are back in work, he tells me. Ann Hartley tells me that investment in schools has transformed her electorate. Mr Goff tells me that he has never had so many new school facilities. Clayton Cosgrove tells me that $12 million is being spent on a bridge that he was waiting for under the National Government. Mr Hughes tell me that $14 million is being spent on the health system in his electorate. Mr Burton tells me that tomorrow he will announce a major regional tourism initiative worth $2 million. He has presided over more tourism in this country than ever in our history\u20142.3 million tourists are coming through under his watch. Mrs Hobbs tells me she has investment for her creative dance school. In the Manawat\u016B there were 500 more businesses in the last 6 years\u2014500\u2014and 6,900 more people are working. Taito Phillip Field tells me that Pacific Island unemployment has fallen by 52 percent in the last 2 years. Mr Damien O\u2019Connor, of the West Coast, tells me that the rates rebate scheme has gone down fabulously with the old people of his area. In Auckland Judith Tizard tells me that people can hardly move for the investment in roads. Dover Samuels tells me that people in his electorate never thought they would see 1 percent to 5 percent unemployment again. In Auckland we have built over 4,000 houses, and in the Waikato we can see the new public investment in the incubator that is taking ideas and turning them into commercial realities. The list goes on and on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EDo people know what eats up the National members? It is that, unfortunately for them, it is their story too. Simon Power has to go home and tell people to thank the Government for the new runway at Ohakea. He has to go home and say that $300 million has been invested in the Rangit\u012Bkei area because the Government rebuilt the place after the floods. He has to go to EziBuy and watch one of the biggest pours of concrete put into a major business in his electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EWho does Simon Power have to thank for that? Well, for the last 6 years he has virtually been a Labour MP at home, because he has so many things to open and so many things that he is pleased about. There are so many things he has had to congratulate people on. People have said to me: \u201CThat lovely young Simon Power, what a great Labour MP he is!\u201D. They tell me he is a fabulous young man and, I have to say, I have not disabused them. I have said that I think he is a fabulous Labour MP, too\u2014he is so positive all the time around his electorate. That is the truth of the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI say again to Mr Brownlee that I am sorry for him but he, and everybody in this House, has to go back to tell that story during the election campaign. National members can whinge, whine, moan, and groan, but in the end, people are better off after 6 years of this Government. They will vote Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00221adb17c0688641cb890004b40df65530\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221adb17c0688641cb890004b40df65530\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the forty-seventh Parliament comes to a close I would like to thank all those who have played a part in keeping the House running so efficiently. As members know, I came to this role at a somewhat unusual time\u2014part-way through a parliamentary term. I was then, and continue to be, most appreciative of the support of my deputy, Ann Hartley, and the Assistant Speakers, Clem Simich and Ross Robertson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EAs of this evening this House has met on 256 sitting days, spread over 293 days of real time. This gives a total of approximately 1,800 hours, including time in Committee\u2014more hours than any of the previous three Parliaments. We have sat under urgency for nearly 400 hours and there have been more than 3,500 votes. Members have put up 3,063 questions for oral answer, about 55,000 written questions, and have filled more than 22,300 pages of Hansard. During the 3 years of this Parliament 402 bills have been served up for royal assent, not including the four bills we have passed this week. A relatively high number\u2014eight\u2014of members\u2019 bills have also been passed. In the hard-working select committee area there have been 1,600 meetings during the session, involving members and staff in considerably more than 4,100 hours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EMembers would have gathered that the effort behind those statistics is equally impressive. and there are many people to thank. First, of course, is the Clerk of the House, Dave McGee, and the staff of the Clerk\u2019s Office for their professional and administrative skills in servicing the Table of the House; compiling Hansard records; processing legislation, questions, and petitions; and serving select committees. I thank the General Manager of the Parliamentary Service, Joel George, and the staff of the Parliamentary Service: members and party support staff, executive secretaries, the staff of the Parliamentary Library, the security staff, Building Services staff, the telephonists, messengers, Travel Office staff, and the Visitor and Reception Services staff. I also thank the Chief Parliamentary Counsel, George Tanner, and his staff for their role in drafting legislation. Nor do I forget the Serjeant-at-Arms, Brent Smith, and the Chamber and gallery staff, my personal staff earlier in the session as a Cabinet Minister, and my staff in recent months as Speaker of the House. I also extend my thanks to members and staff of the bodies that, as Speaker, I chair: the Parliamentary Service Commission, the Business Committee, the Standing Orders Committee, and the Officers of Parliament Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EBeyond these walls, but closely linked to this Parliament, my thanks go to the Controller and Auditor-General and his staff; the Chief Ombudsman, his fellow ombudsmen, and staff; and the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI also thank the leaders of all the parties in the House and their deputies; the Leader of the House, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen; and, in particular, the party whips, without whom I am sure that this Parliament would not function as efficiently as it does, so I have a special thanks to them. My thanks to all fellow members of Parliament for their support and work throughout this year and for the contribution they make, not only to this House but also to our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EFinally, I extend my best wishes for the future to the colleagues of all political parties who have chosen not to stand for re-election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223231af2fcdad41d9b0a1e693454c0e40\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the House do now adjourn until Friday, 12 August 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200508026d0291d90ab14b49a36a5f0d0b4946af001011\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.42 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"