"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b5f6b2ccd3044a5856fa360dd1733d7\u0022\u003EThursday, 4 May 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b6427ef231049f0a1a4ef16bf58a3d5\u0022\u003EThursday, 4 May 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222591c9d5ea5e44c9a9e78538d4ac31d3\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222cdf9980923e4462b24c7fe195ec07d3\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00222be176b694c345b18d413788948ae203\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222be176b694c345b18d413788948ae203\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week in the House priority will be given to the first reading of the Communications Legislation Bill, and the remaining stages of the Parental Leave and Employment Protection (Paid Parental Leave for Self-Employed Persons) Amendment Bill, the Criminal Procedure Bill, the Coroners Bill, the Historic Places Amendment Bill, the Protected Objects Amendment Bill, and the Education Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002206678ee0a47442618b003b29557113ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206678ee0a47442618b003b29557113ea\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I wonder whether the Deputy Leader of the House could indicate to us\u2014noting the long list of work that the House appears to have before it\u2014whether, following the staggering success of the Telecom leak, the Government is simply going to post the Budget on the Internet, to save the House spending a lot of time considering it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2a0ad5a7043468c916a6a735cebded5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2a0ad5a7043468c916a6a735cebded5\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I deem it highly unlikely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002266bf40e6d1a345749e02d883e366b290\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230e094f5a56040079a67a95b4275852d\u0022\u003EBuilding Industry Reforms\u2014Document Not Tabled\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa79fe8f46564c568f4a2d076566ee79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa79fe8f46564c568f4a2d076566ee79\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You will recall that yesterday I raised the issue of a member of Parliament making a statement in respect of a document proposed to be tabled, then not tabling the document. In this case Dr Nick Smith proposed to table a document in respect of a claim he had made about a prior speech of Mr Hawkins, which he said he had a record of. I have had my office check with the staff of the Clerk\u2019s Office to see whether such a document was tabled, therefore and thereby verifying what Dr Smith had claimed in the House, and to their knowledge no such document was tabled. That is typical of the kind of behaviour I was complaining about yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022268dc37680aa42199feebb05ebae4895\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022268dc37680aa42199feebb05ebae4895\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E My understanding was that members of the Government objected to my tabling the document, but for the benefit of Mr Peters I will be very happy to provide the speech made by Mr George Hawkins claiming that National had no right to claim credit for the building reforms of the early 1990s, because they were all Labour\u2019s good work. I am happy to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002283b83bcff9674c63829ad2136cd97eda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283b83bcff9674c63829ad2136cd97eda\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, we were all here yesterday when you put the question, and there was no demur from anyone in the House. Now he puts up that lousy excuse for his failing to present the evidence behind his allegation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bda34763ca954af0b1d6dbe36e9257e4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think we need any more on this. Sometimes, with so many members asking to table papers, members do forget whether leave in fact was granted. We have heard Dr Smith\u2019s explanation and the fact that he is happy to table them, but I will remind members that there is actually no requirement to table a document. The leave of the House permits it, but there is no actual requirement that it happen. If Dr Smith were to table it, I am sure that would help the House. If Dr Smith would like to seek leave again, then we would have the formalities clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac94bcea068d4baf8a67aa9008b2f049\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac94bcea068d4baf8a67aa9008b2f049\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table the speech made by the Hon George Hawkins in which he said that National had no right to claim credit for the building reforms of the early 1990s, and that they were all the work of the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228702c55ae4e24ecf95e76836500770c3\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022369e385698b9466a81e5522c22c9bb32\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c2566d4e21f4436397524852953e6811\u0022\u003EInformation Technology\u2014Broadband Availability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243146fe79fb94df5a95a417d92e2d8c9\u0022\u003E1. MARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Communications: What is the Government doing to make faster, cheaper broadband available to all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002298542dad91f2488786db50326c4b4b4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298542dad91f2488786db50326c4b4b4f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Communications):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has announced a package of measures to increase competition in broadband markets. The measures include unbundling the local loop, full bitstream unbundling, information disclosure and accounting separation to promote transparency, encouraging investment in alternative infrastructure, and a rural package that recognises the needs of the rural community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7cc9cecb6940b0a1c3246acdac0819\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen on this package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fe446fe6b7d45808fdfb640b6532720\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a large number of positive reports. A very recent one was from the OECD. It says: \u201CThe decision by the New Zealand Government to unbundle the local loop opens the door to more competition in the New Zealand broadband market.\u201D Another quote, from the president of InternetNZ, says: \u201CThese decisions open the playing field for industry competitors to show their commitment to New Zealand consumers by investing in new infrastructure and services.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227935ac273b0e46afb9649cb6c0a01d31\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give the House an assurance that this move, which was announced hurriedly last night, will now act as a guarantee so that this country can meet the targets he published in his digital strategy, and those are that New Zealand is to be in the top half of the OECD by next year, and in the top quartile of the OECD by 2010?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d29aaa27e57a46c49106be20d46dfed5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: For the second time today, I suggest the Opposition spokesman read the Cabinet paper that is on the website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04ea9d9baf24360978167cb08e14290\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267d3f96d8e8041beac880bd6513563eb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: With the benefit of further research and the inclusion of advanced broadband services within the target, it is now considered appropriate that we achieve the top half of the OECD by 2010, and the top quarter by 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220da24c23be894aa78fc240f6d1d66d8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any other reports of attempts to open up the telecommunications market, and has he seen any reports as to what happened to those very worthy endeavours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a651eee905846b2bc9e733454da905b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I have a statement from 20 May 1998 made by the then Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, where he calls for a review of the adequacy of competition in the telecommunications industry leading to the types of measures that were announced yesterday. That review was quashed by the then National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d34b9580cc34d2682c1981d5ed4c7e6\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the need to regulate the Internet service provider access price to the unbundled loop, to prevent Telecom from overcharging competing internet service providers; if so, how does the process of regulating access pricing work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244905b2c9d52486d9235a1f8290f12dc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Access pricing principles will be legislated for and applied by the Telecommunications Commissioner, to ensure there is a fair balance between the legitimate interests of the incumbent to earn a fair return and the access needs of entrants into the telecommunications market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223914c7faf15042e686425518f3aabf3c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen a Treasury report of 1998, commissioned by yours truly, that recommended an opening up of competition in telecommunications, which then was promptly squashed by the National Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca6c6bb24978450a8628297f9eeef2bf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I have not had the opportunity to review that document and I welcome the Minister tabling it, but it does fit with one\u2019s assessment of National\u2019s lack of policy\u2014it has not changed in 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc8dc26362b544679a80aafc579a6a78\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister plan to avoid the kind of excessive and drawn-out litigation processes that have accompanied the unbundling of some local loops overseas, which have resulted in years of stalling manoeuvres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b27a2e5e57ea448199ef7fde90a9ebe4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: This is a legislative process and not a judicially reviewable one. Legislative amendments already announced are designed to improve the speed and decisiveness of the regulatory process by the Commerce Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022928e4be7ce6a4940912703661eba7e67\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen, firstly, the Treasury report recommending deregulation of all telecommunications in this country, secondly, a speech made by myself in late July of 1998 making that recommendation, and, thirdly, the apoplectic reaction from Maurice Williamson when he found out his mates were going to be exposed to true competition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227faa9d8031e54d30b6890a9b93400416\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The speech concerned is on my reading list, and indeed I have heard that characterisation of the Hon Maurice Williamson before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7c8bbac5fab4d6487ad90727bcff0a4\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We have heard a very interesting exchange between the Minister and the New Zealand First leader. I wonder whether the Minister would be prepared to take a minute of the House\u2019s time to explain that perhaps this telecommunications package is just part of Winston\u2019s dowry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4460fcb29ee4bcaa17c40cd8544b42e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, that is not a point of order. Please be seated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b10c0df4e5d54340876309db603ff140\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Treasury recommendation, after months of hard work on its part, and also the speech that drove Maurice Williamson to a state of apoplexy because Telecom, which had been funding the National Party, was about to be exposed to competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebcfa4b99bb0449d93dfcd824edb6806\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table recent statements on New Zealand by the OECD, and also the press release from May 1998 by the then Treasurer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EPress release, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e473cecd68064e80aba8197589711a25\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table page 29 of the Government\u2019s National Digital Strategy, in which it sets the top half of the OECD by next year and the top quarter by 2010 as its targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022200fa7f569344f398df71d81aab14b7e\u0022\u003ECabinet Documents\u2014Telecom New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022509888bc5d3f49edbf055b5038bc8441\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: How did Telecom New Zealand Ltd obtain a copy of a commercially sensitive Cabinet document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022672fc1f065f240f692f9edf24bba0ea7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022672fc1f065f240f692f9edf24bba0ea7\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Broadcasting)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: The State Services Commission is being asked to investigate the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022940a5c0ec82440359bca42396a0dd6f8\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen reports that as long ago as last week, weblogs were speculating that the Government will \u201Cactually do something about it next week\u201D, that local loop unbundling is on the table, that a structural separation of Telecom\u2019s retail and wholesale operations is included, and that local loop unbundling is apparently a firm decision, but structural separation may be jettisoned, all of which is a very accurate description of what was in the commercially sensitive Cabinet paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022177520c81bb44e8682c2fbcd7f0471af\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, I am aware of all sorts of speculation, none of which I am responsible for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9d7106bbd134ddd8e130d5fcd232da6\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister heard reports that the Minister of Finance told a reporter that Telecom had known too much about the Government\u2019s considerations on broadband for some time, and the report that leaking could have been going on for months or years; and, if she has heard those reports, why does she believe that the Minister of Finance took no action when he knew leaking was a threat?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751d8b3e4791436a940bc1f0be18892b\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, not only am I aware of the reports, but also I have a report in my hand. It is from Duncan Garner. There are no quote marks in it. It is Mr Duncan Garner talking about the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abfd07e499574dcfaaacf9a2435aec1e\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What does it say to the Prime Minister about the state of her Government when senior politicians, or senior advisers and staff, were willing to leak a highly confidential Cabinet document in a fashion that is unprecedented, and does she realise the seriousness of this leak for confidence in her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022179a0d57f72547b3b990fe8b7a3246ea\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the last matter, confidence in this Government is staggeringly high. On the first issue, an investigation is being prepared by the State Services Commission, and I have no intention of prejudging what it will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f278a7c62494d7ba74e32acc46284c7\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister\u2019s inquiry include the matter of which Minister is ultimately responsible for this unprecedented leak, and will she therefore require the resignation of that Minister, after the style of Roger Douglas\u2014in the only vaguely similar precedent\u2014who offered his resignation when material that was less sensitive than this was leaked, although not by him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8cfda7522424ae19b5cd9d93a255c4d\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, I have no intention of prejudging this inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298102e3869354d51b32e2b3a419e85d5\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why can the Prime Minister not come to a conclusion and judge the reported comments of the Minister of Finance that he believed Telecom knew too much about the Government\u2019s considerations on broadband, given that the Minister of Finance had a chance to do something about that but he did nothing, and that the result was an unprecedented leak of commercially sensitive information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d27ff2e0496d4518b333d7d9bf8764a5\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, as I pointed out before, I have the report that the member is referring to in my hand on my desk here. It is Mr Garner talking; it is not the reported comments of the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b716c106a448b797f8acd9da7a0816\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: So he made it up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022194da25c32384e80adf193eb0682b85e\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am just saying that they are not the reported comments of the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ba5049379004731a657395c3a4fb01d\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister is unwilling to prejudge the outcome of an inquiry, why can she not give a judgment on the event that has actually occurred, regardless of who leaked the paper, which is that a highly commercially sensitive Cabinet document was leaked, according to Telecom within an hour of the end of the Cabinet committee meeting, and that that kind of leak is unprecedented in the New Zealand Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f17e2a868c44541b03e2c0ec20d15b1\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, I seldom do things to please Mr English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4af1104298450bb284bf5000f50079\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: How does that address the issue? How does that address the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7b7c42814e4567bf5d3a2b9ca4d7cb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would members please just be silent for a minute. Would the Minister like to add to his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223906294d289041af93dd0973b36a46d4\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, the member asked whether I would do something. I am saying that I will seldom do anything to please him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249e5cc924fdb41e8a91786c30c5879ce\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I must say that he did phrase his question in that way. It may not be a satisfactory answer, but maybe the member would like to ask a more specific question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de089faa3d2482aa96442f0d492bf57\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can I take it from the Prime Minister\u2019s answer that she does not realise that this leak is unprecedented, and that she does not realise that now no one can trust the decision-making process of this Government to protect information that is highly sensitive and ought to be kept secret?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022383992eb2ac846c6bd32c8c21ded3c54\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: People do know that they can trust this Government to act in a very capable and competent way. An investigation is being arranged now. I ask the member not to prejudge things, as he always does, but to wait for the results of the inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228082ed0ecdb24658abd0941d406fb3b1\u0022\u003EAvian Influenza\u2014Tamiflu\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4cb6c916e44a0aadf1256cea91141b\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What advice, if any, has he received on the effectiveness of Tamiflu in the advent of an outbreak of a bird flu pandemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00222fab7fa998c14eaf9e1e7be6465228c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fab7fa998c14eaf9e1e7be6465228c6\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: The Minister has received advice from the World Health Organization that Tamiflu is effective in reducing the duration and spread of seasonal influenza illnesses. But until a pandemic virus exists and is identified, the efficacy of Tamiflu and its best use will remain unknown. The World Health Organization also advises countries to have reserves of antiviral medication in case of an influenza pandemic, and the Government has acted on that advice and has sufficient doses of Tamiflu for 21 percent of the population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022281b5dcd2f2b4ee8a0a8e5014c1a0b7a\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: What information has the Minister received on the efficacy of the human antiviral medication Tamiflu, given reports that it barely alleviates some of the symptoms of the common flu; and, therefore, what assurance can he give the nation that the same human antiviral medication will be effective in a bird flu pandemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022364bed18bd6b400eb18c6ec439d4a456\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Until there is a pandemic of that kind, there will not be any definitive answer to that question. But we are taking the best advice we can get from the best clinicians, and we have taken every precaution sufficient to and above World Health Organization standards and advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022645bfc48354146d182da41b35ebc04f5\u0022\u003EAnn Hartley\u003C/span\u003E: How are New Zealand efforts to plan for an epidemic viewed in an international context?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c05b319b45504e6eb46c67125392a094\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised they are viewed very well. In fact, just this week an article in the Harvard Business Review stated that the New Zealand Government\u2019s planning should be used as a guide for all Governments to follow. I quote: \u201CWork to prepare for a pandemic is ongoing and includes not only the Government but also businesses and community groups around the country.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec47ee14ca0484cb5c3fcf994c30228\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned about the claims that a multinational corporate company, Gilead Sciences, which holds the rights to Tamiflu, is well connected in the Bush administration and has a vested interest in promoting the spectre of a looming bird flu pandemic in order to increase its profits; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257465eea3e8a465c9c9df38fbb84389a\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have no information on that, and therefore I have no comment to make on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd3f1c2c11184deaafedb9bebe6eecd6\u0022\u003EState Services Commission\u2014Merger of Department and Ministry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca69f19340a443c69da98f2b0eff1f5d\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of State Services: Is she satisfied with the way in which the State Services Commission offered advice on the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services - Ministry of Social Development merger?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022465e7531d7504bf396205144ba09ee90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022465e7531d7504bf396205144ba09ee90\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc0aa4b50d492085029114db00eebf\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when the State Services Commission in December last year warned that a merger could \u201Cdestabilise MSD\u201D and create an \u201Cunmanageable chief executive position\u201D, and that the capability and operational problems that the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services faced would not be fixed by a merger, did she ignore the commission\u2019s advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022395c4a48f3bb4697adc051e1611515ce\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No. The State Services Commissioner changed his mind over Christmas, and came back to the Government and said he had changed his mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6f2267c4a0d41338342fa0ce90a5c39\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What are the outcomes that the Government expects to receive from the merger?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022601d3b809914446d838fb5b5a943ca28\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The paper prepared by my official recommended a much wider range of initiatives than just the merger. That complete package of measures will include services for the most vulnerable children in New Zealand. They include the merger, of course, but also the improvement of systems-wide management, improved information management, improved youth justice capability, the addressing of the culture issues, and greater policy coordination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f86c46f685034bccb525c6ba25c08124\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Which report from the State Services Commissioner is right: the one in December 2005 that says: \u201CWe do not think that the capability and operational problems faced by CYFS will necessarily be any more easily resolved in the context of a larger organisation. The potential is rather that the problems will be more difficult to address because of the inevitable loss of focus due to scope.\u201D, or the report from January 2006\u20141 month later\u2014that says the merger is \u201Cthe best option for improving the delivery of services for children, youth, and their families\u201D\u2014and why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222416e45bee464c48896a90ecc893a819\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The January report\u2014the State Services Commissioner changed his mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275196543c46a488db56533d51560a825\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What changed the State Services Commissioner\u2019s mind from December to January?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb6067c91b04f8c8332bf62fadec80d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: He had the period between December and January to give it greater consideration\u2014which he did\u2014and he changed his mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b286651fb0ae4767b1fe0985bf2adfc9\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What was the extent of the consultation between the State Services Commission and Child, Youth and Family Services and Ministry of Social Development senior staff before the State Services Commission report was signed off on 27 January this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a154da54f684c53823b2071156f2e6d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I am unable to give the member the answer. I do not have it with me. I am certainly happy to find it out for the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff116d85eb3f4342b80368d85a725cc2\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What other explanation is there for the State Services Commission\u2019s dramatic change in position, other than the obvious one that her Government put political pressure on the State Services Commissioner over Christmas to change the advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022744df797bacf4e0ab3c345d5d4ce52e8\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The member is wrong. No pressure was put on the State Services Commissioner. That is made up by the member. The State Services Commissioner\u2014as members of this House know\u2014is an independent thinker and a man with a brain who is able to make his own decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9b6afbbbf8b4a788599be598ebdf816\u0022\u003EAged Residential Care Funding\u2014District Health Boards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc09defd62b24b61baedc999221326bf\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Will he allocate specific funding, in addition to an inflation adjustment, to district health boards for the aged residential care sector to compensate them for the impact of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation multi-employer collective agreement, given that in his reply to written question number 1793 (2006) he noted the potential for the New Zealand Nurses Organisation multi-employer collective agreement to have an impact?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022420913fe75184f9cbd2b4a34f5b89872\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022420913fe75184f9cbd2b4a34f5b89872\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: Public investment in aged residential care will increase significantly in this year\u2019s Budget as has been agreed between the Government and New Zealand First. This funding boost will be in addition to future funding-track increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227ad91f6f5b54c48a5aac6e54db199ab\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister be encouraging district health board representatives to meet residential aged-care sector representatives to discuss the impact of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation multi-employer collective agreement on wages and wage demands, given that residential care operators have now been trying to arrange such a meeting for over a year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e80b6f559038410391ad0e99feaaaef8\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has a very proud record of delivering significant funding increases for the aged-care sector that will continue this year with the help and support of New Zealand First, and I am certain that representatives of the district health boards, encouraged by Government initiatives that are being worked through at the moment, will be in a very good position to meet with the aged-care sector representatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228649886c650447d58a4b935645ce7e34\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What is being done to support the role of nurses in New Zealand in addition to the New Zealand Nurses Organisation multi-employer collective agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a50018d4674316a6000ffcd82779d2\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The historic half-billion-dollar pay increase for our public hospital nurses is just one part of the Government\u2019s work to support the vital role that nurses play in the health sector. We have implemented prescribing rights for nurse practitioners, expanded the number of nursing scholarships, and reaffirmed the importance of primary-care nurses with the primary health-care strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265082a3279344b96b2d64f46459cd7d3\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please explain why the paltry $12.5 million given to the aged-care sector in the 2005 Budget had so many tags on it that not only have a number of providers and home-care workers not yet received the money, but some who have are still working for a net $5 per hour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242bfdde033dd40838487af9b2df3b1f6\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The member may well think that a $12.5 million increase for a sector is a minor matter, but I can assure her that it is a whole lot more than could be delivered by the party that she represents, which would have had tax cuts, instead of increases in the health sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ec72630d4a47b48140bca4cc9e228b\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Will primary health organisations receive any additional funding so that the primary health nurses can enjoy the same wage gains that nurses working for district health boards currently receive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c1760d4b6924f13b6935f05cc6f217b\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Delivering fair pay for nurses employed in the public sector has been a top priority for the Government, and we hope other sectors will follow our lead. But the member should remember that the Government has already committed to a 7-year, $2.2 billion investment in the primary health sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f8420bc92941cda93a50c4fda8aea3\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister prepared to do to ensure that district health boards pass on to the aged-care sector the promised increased funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cd635f11d5049509fc3e5549f81b6dc\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Where public agencies at a local or national level have received funding from the Government for specific purposes, the Government would always require those agencies to pass on those increases, and Government agencies always work cooperatively with local and regional agencies to see that that occurs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f24e7c2ca87a482189ac3c3072c471ce\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Waiting Lists\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af89267ca474ca8a6968cbafe93df9b\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How many patients does he expect this financial year will be removed from waiting lists for a first specialist assessment and returned to their GP for ongoing care, and how does this compare with the previous year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf370ce546a9429cb7a905f08743f1f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf370ce546a9429cb7a905f08743f1f6\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Associate Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Health: In the time available, I have been advised by 18 out of the 21 district health boards that about 10,000 people so far this year have been returned to their general practitioner for ongoing care, which the Ministry of Health advises me is broadly comparable with the number last year. Those 10,000 people represent about 2.5 percent of the more than 400,000 New Zealanders who have been seen by a specialist this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0246554e5194c1788d9379aeb83148e\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why have those patients been culled from the waiting list?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248fef69a0ab146f68e72e7395a31065d\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The district health board authorities and commissions have taken the view that they have a certain number of patients who are in the system whom they can see. There are others whom they have reviewed, suggested, or recommended be referred back to general practitioners for further assessment, and taken steps to see they are referred back. Under the circumstances, I do not think that is an unreasonable step for them to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b58ab6a32534180b707ec402062e487\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: What reports, if any, has the Minister received on increases in elective procedures under the Labour-led Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531488eccc404077956af5780f43d487\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen two reports. One, based on fact\u2014something that clearly the National Party does not know much about\u2014shows that the number of people who received elective surgery has gone up by 8 percent, or 12.6 percent on a case-weighted basis, since the change of Government. The other report I have seen is from the National Party and shows the numbers are going down not up, but it does that by excluding all medical activity, all acute surgical activity, all case weighting, and all out-patient surgical activity, and by forgetting the year in which Labour was actually elected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff8824f45e984511b1ee755f85123cff\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s response to yesterday\u2019s question, when he appeared to attribute responsibility for systemic bias to myself as one of two Associate Ministers to the Hon Annette King, now that he is the Minister would he be prepared to take responsibility for the systemic bias that currently exists in the health system that denies M\u0101ori people access to it; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218577527475447a18a549a771196b166\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: All I can say to that question and answer is that if the member has evidence of that systemic bias and supplies it to me, I will get comment back to her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dddf07973a084e2ca02185ee39171ae8\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise us how many people have been culled from waiting lists at other district health boards, when the publicly announced figures from the various district health boards I am about to list already total over 10,000: 1,800 from the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board, 2,000 from the Canterbury District Health Board, 3,000 from the Waikato District Health Board, 1,800 from the Counties Manukau District Health Board, 1,100 dumped from the MidCentral District Health Board, and 400 from the Bay of Plenty District Health Board? That figure is already over 10,000; how many people have been culled from the other 12 district health boards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7967d15446a499391609329bb65ed42\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: In the time available to provide an answer to this oral question, I asked officials to contact all the district health boards to get that information. Three, I understand, did not reply, but when I asked officials they said that the range is regularly somewhere between 10,000 and 14,000, and that about 10,000 for the 18 out of 21 boards that replied is an accurate figure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747ddac8e0d34bafa8ae85f6e92cc6c3\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister has a list of the district health boards with their numbers with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f27b61c67bb41148fa3c31bbd5a3667\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aea1ca039a02476cbfe17b79af187d80\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Will any of the 24,000 people who have currently waited more than 6 months to see a specialist be culled from the waiting list in the next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022121bf076d789447987f99665220f6ad0\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Although the member is quoting the 24,085 people who have been waiting for a first specialist assessment for longer than 6 months, it is worth noting, for the benefit of the House and the people of New Zealand, that last year over 400,000 people received a first specialist assessment. The number of people waiting for a specialist assessment for longer than 6 months, which is what the member seems to be worried about, has actually fallen by 42 percent under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f6e16e58c34857826e871ece33c234\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. A Minister cannot simply stand up and quote another set of numbers that are completely unrelated to the question. The question was: how many of the people who are currently waiting more than 6 months to see a specialist\u2014many of those people are very sick\u2014can look forward to being culled from the waiting list in the next 12 months? Will any of them be culled in the next 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf3f5b11ab0495e8333cae8192b0285\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: In the first instance, the figures I am quoting to the member are the figures I have received under advice that the number of people waiting for a first specialist assessment for longer than 6 months, which is the area we have to show concern about, has actually fallen by 42 percent under this Government. In so far as the question relates to what may happen to others, that is dependent on the professional clinical view of those who are responsible for looking at the interim reports they get from general practitioners and on the decisions they make to refer those patients back to their general practitioner for further assessment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c4a14da12704e14972b0e5674e240b9\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Who does the Minister seriously expect reasonable people to believe on matters of elective surgery: himself\u2014the four out of 10 Minister who says that the National Party is crisis-mongering and who has said: \u201CIt\u2019s not fair, it\u2019s not true, and it\u2019s time it stopped.\u201D\u2014or the senior surgeon in New Zealand, the chairman of the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, who says that talk of the crisis is not manufactured and, in fact\u2014as we have heard\u2014the numbers are getting worse? Who does he really think people will believe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f2458a228be4aa3841e1cc89b7df403\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I believe these two facts, because I know them to be absolutely correct: more than 400,000 New Zealanders have been seen by a specialist this year, and the 10,000 to 14,000 people who have been referred back to a general practitioner represent about 2.5 percent of those who have actually been seen by a specialist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253bb3c9983474d4d8a7f9fd89c68548d\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Will any of the people currently waiting for a first specialist assessment be culled from that waiting list in the next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea122f21955e407b9d5ce5375b6dc0ea\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer that definitively, because that is in the judgment of those who are looking at the system. I do know that those who are referred back for further assessment are deemed by clinical assessment not to require urgent attention, and that it is deemed there is merit in having a further assessment at a general practitioner level. And any Opposition members who want to cast aspersions on the inadequacy of the general practitioner system in this country should actually look carefully at the important service to the country that the primary health care general practitioner clinicians offer in their own areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc86d4d917e46eda5f7c045f2fb7944\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an interview where the Minister of Health said general practitioners who refer patients to waiting lists in Hawke\u2019s Bay are \u201Cunethical\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cd0185915c648ea89ff58c4c22cacf1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcdbcb42328745d28ba2c56740b450f7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I did not want to interrupt my colleague during that point of order, but during that particular exchange there was a very, very audible interjection from a section of the House that should well be in your eyesight. We do note that a number of our members have been asked to leave the Chamber at various times for similar interjections, but today there was no intervention from you and the particular offender was not required to leave. I just ask you to please look for consistency in the way you deal with the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e80f2f94d22f44e89035a2100d47313a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank Mr Brownlee. Members are on their last warning for this session. Please do not make any comment at all, including chatting to each other, because I think we need to have absolute silence when questions are being asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289652278078f4ad9ba39f5ef86a67746\u0022\u003EBiodiversity Strategy\u2014Hooker\u2019s Sea Lions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209ad204a1307449dad78f322a0c422b9\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Fisheries: Is his decision to allow the squid fishery to kill 55 percent more Hooker\u2019s sea lions, the rarest sea lion in the world, consistent with the New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00220d41fc700eb9402f8fd1342d8a13760c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d41fc700eb9402f8fd1342d8a13760c\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Minister of Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E The answer is yes. The Government\u2019s biodiversity strategy states, as a desired outcome for marine biodiversity, that \u201Cany harvesting is done in an informed, controlled and ecologically sustainable manner.\u201D In respect of the New Zealand sea lion, management of by-catch from the squid fishery is informed by annual surveys of sea lion populations and of all fishing activities. It is controlled by a fishing related mortality limit set by the Minister of Fisheries and enforced by satellite vessel monitoring and by observers. Finally, the impacts of the squid fishery are managed in an ecologically sustainable manner by ensuring that the sea lion by-catch is kept comfortably within what the best available science suggests is necessary to ensure that the sea lion population is maintained at a sustainable level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a16041eecb04cd8bd78cd7fa435a9d4\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Will he ensure the ecological sustainability set out in the biodiversity strategy is maintained by insisting the squid fishery uses jiggers instead of trawling in the Southern Ocean, given that the simple use of jigging technology will almost certainly completely avoid killing any Hooker\u2019s sea lions, and would not this be a simple and relatively cost-effective way of supporting the industry without threatening the extinction of this New Zealand endangered species?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226661b6985225409a85cdc45bc8d2fb94\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised, as Minister of Fisheries, that the severe ocean conditions around the Auckland Islands\u2014which is the area we are talking about where these sea lions are a by-catch\u2014can be both difficult and hazardous for squid jigging vessels. For this reason I am unwilling to require extended no-trawl zones around the Auckland Islands in order to encourage jigging alternatives until such methods have been further tested and proven both feasible and safe in this fishery. Although I am concerned about the mortality of sea lions, of course, I am also concerned about the mortality of fishermen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ec33cba33624aa8b5d29176331ca488\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister not think it is inconsistent for the Government of which he is a part to be criticising Norway and Japan for the hunting of minke whales while right here at home he allows the increased slaughter of the Hooker\u2019s sea lion, a species classified by the World Conservation Union as being much closer to extinction than the minke; and does his decision not really mean that as long as there are a few of these animals left in New Zealand, the rest are allowed to die?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229889575ec5ce4750bbc54f5a27de636a\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I think that to compare the so-called scientific basis on which the Japanese are promoting whaling, when there is no effective market for whaling and there is a real threat to the whale population if they are hunted deliberately, with a by-catch of sea lions, the numbers of which are well within any sustainable range, is a far cry and a long bow. The best scientific advice I have in front of me is that there would be a level of up to 550 sea lions caught, and that that would be the limit at which we would start to concern ourselves about the sustainability of sea lions on a one-off basis. The decision I made to allow the squid fishery to continue when there is an abundance of squid and they are caught only once\u2014use it or lose it\u2014was made on the basis that 150 sea lions caught in one season would not come anywhere near the consideration of sustainability that scientists have advised me about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022225cb53630f94aafb9026462d8b41315\u0022\u003EResearch, Science, and Technology\u2014Contestable Government Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556e8f660a84483abb2c95611f6ffbb9\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Research, Science and Technology: Does he intend to move ahead with major changes away from contestable Government funding for science, research, and technology, given a University of Auckland report found that \u201Cevidence from the operation of the contestable funding system clearly shows that its introduction saw \u2026 significant improvement in performance and relevance of services provided.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002225842feea4b64329ac53c2a5c5cef0c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225842feea4b64329ac53c2a5c5cef0c0\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Research, Science and Technology):\u003C/span\u003E Contestability continues to be an important part of the science system, but too much contestability can affect the ability of our scientists and our science organisations to carry out their research. We want to move towards a more balanced system that does not have so high a level of contestability. I point out that the model we have in New Zealand has a very high level of contestability\u2014in fact, it is the highest of any country in the OECD. Evidence from discussion with the sector, recent evaluations through parts of the Research, Science and Technology vote, and the yet-to-be-released OECD report that was produced recently when OECD officials went through the country all showed the need for a change to a more balanced science funding system. The foundation will now go out and talk with the sector about the details of this funding model before it is finally implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd3a417dfc249ab924b9d2fefe56d96\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government introduce highly contestable performance-based research funding into New Zealand\u2019s universities only a few years ago if it was a system that did not deliver quality results or could not be sustained?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022632e40a513ff4221b99dd9f1b13f0dfc\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I imagine that the member is referring to the introduction of the Performance-based Research Fund\u2014yes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221442b2f473e64901aed7d6c5acdc80b5\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249a8e93121ee4d858f4a2a3fa6979088\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: That was something I did. If members look at the model, they will notice that the model is based upon sustaining excellence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022305fee1b661d4c0fa4331ebc81a75fcf\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Another Maharey mess.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022292e11bfbf824ad3bf2d84adb5958446\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr English that I do not hear the member saying he would change it. The introduction of that model was, of course, something that allows for a 6-yearly reviewable cycle. This is not contestable in the sense that most science research is. It is an outstanding model that is having outstanding results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ea12226309344ed95d19656f4666da9\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: What changes is the Minister proposing to make science and technology funding more stable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91e245809fe47b7a948142547f8ca23\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: While maintaining appropriate levels of contestability, we intend to work with the sector to negotiate longer-term programmes for those who have a proven track record, to do a systematic technical review of science programmes, to reduce the cost and complexity of funding processes, to identify the essential backbone infrastructure, and to continue to increase the capability of our Crown research institutes. As well as strengthening the economic contribution of science, these changes will ensure that we retain scientists and ensure that they have a clear career path. That is why we are doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae42827780604876a7469a7eda9a0f56\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Does science Minister Maharey disagree with the Steve Maharey who was an Associate Minister of Education who said: \u201CThe introduction of contestable research funding through the PBRF would lead to excellence and had the strong support of the community and the sector.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221519bb3293834260a808069d01984589\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said before to Mr Hutchison, the Opposition spokesperson on this topic, what we did with the Performance-based Research Fund was introduce a system that is 6-yearly renewable. That is a reviewable process, and it is exactly the kind of model that is being mooted for introduction to a larger amount of the science coming through the forced fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbd0bcfbff5c4880a5be99049098fa40\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he ploughing ahead with his plan when he can give no hard evidence of any benefits in his answer to written questions\u2014and that is because the scientific and economic literature shows no benefits\u2014or does the Minister assert that rigorous evidence need not underpin the design of science-funding systems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd6f222a123422f8c10bfb45bb046a1\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is powering ahead, because that is what we always do as a Government, to introduce this new funding model. It is clear from the reviews of the science sector\u2014reviews by such people as the OECD\u2014that a more balanced model, closer to the kinds of models we see in some other very successful science communities around the world, will serve the country well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7825be8010443e6bf3dd66e82f343d7\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the special rapporteur on the situation of human rights and fundamental freedoms of indigenous peoples, who recommended that social delivery services should continue to be specifically targeted and tailored to the needs of M\u0101ori, requiring more targeted research, evaluation, and a statistical basis, or does he think the $1 million announced last week, out of a total vote of $633 million, or 0.16 percent, is enough to spend on indigenous M\u0101ori knowledge, given that the M\u0101ori population is 15 percent and rising?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226562d7fe24804858b80e19e926e44ba4\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: There were a number of questions in there about comments made by the rapporteur, and the answer would be that we still see the need to deliver services on the basis of need, and that need often is amongst M\u0101ori, and that, yes, we think we do need to research and evaluate that expenditure so that we know it is making an impact on the needs of M\u0101ori. On the question of whether we think that $1 million out of $653 million is enough for indigenous knowledge, I think that if the member checks he will find that there is a major strategy within the forced funding model, which will result in more than a million dollars being spent on that particular area of knowledge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfda2c6e60af48758d1dbf6033a8bf3f\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: What further actions does he intend to take to ensure that New Zealand science drives the country\u2019s economic transformation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aad795a289df45cf8c7a30b1bc805fe8\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has a large number of proposals, which will result in the promotion of the uptake of science in New Zealand, the commercialisation of new research ideas, the stabilisation of funding for the sector, longer-term funding models for the sector, and working with the sector to ensure it is able to develop a highly skilled workforce\u2014in other words, a very comprehensive programme indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b61e93e5f52e4d3791e4b4779ad7a3cf\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with his colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard, who said: \u201CContestable funding moves the emphasis to quality over quantity in research.\u201D; if not, why is the Minister reducing the use of contestable funding for Crown research institutes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ba0eeded3844e093ad954bcd8ae5e3\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said before, contestability will remain part of the funding model where it is useful to what we are doing. In other parts of the model we will be adopting one of providing for capability development. We will be funding those long-term data sets, for example, that do not need to be contestable. We will be negotiating longer-term contracts with people. I would invite the member, if he does not like this, to put up an alternative model, and we will see how long it lasts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228870c7e782e945bdb8505c93f00e0987\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is a newsletter from the Labour Party\u2019s own website, dated 4 May 2006, where Steve Maharey praises the contestable funding model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022240d5cf7a041416eab98ea1ffaba6a46\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: The second document is a written question in which Minister Maharey fails to demonstrate any benefit to science from his proposed plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ffdde2cde39488c8af89ab951a1405b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b7f5d46668a40a292b668bd20009396\u0022\u003ESchools\u2014Bullying\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ac5a1d6671244b09f7683d2e6f17dc7\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to reduce bullying in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022276c757f6ae344ff82a7017ec5e2ceac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022276c757f6ae344ff82a7017ec5e2ceac\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Today I announced a new $9.5 million fund to help schools promote positive behaviour and reduce the kind of disruptive behaviour that one sometimes sees in the House. This funding will contribute to our work around eliminating bullying, by providing resources and guidance to schools so that they can deal with the impact of disruptive behaviour. The new funding will help ensure that every school is able to provide a safe and productive learning environment for its students. It is part of a wider reducing-violence package to be announced in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a313b316861a4edcbb89f0c417b3d9c6\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: How will this programme improve educational outcomes for students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a6ea5af91f744a795a99b994dc5d0bb\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Disruptive behaviour in schools affects everyone\u2019s learning negatively in some way. Offenders and their classmates do not get a chance to get on with their learning, teachers become stressed, and the links between school and home can break down. So this initiative will provide additional support for schools to ensure that children with severe behavioural problems can stay in school; better information and resources to ensure that there are good policies and guidelines for every school; a new behaviour screening tool that will help schools identify at an early stage children at risk, then act on the issue; and a continuation of Project Early in Christchurch and Auckland. All of those will help deal with disruptive behaviour in our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260d067ec59574b3f81ce8071ff3dae80\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that the sustainable alleviation of bullying in schools will not be effected by packaged programmes such as Kia Kaha, but can be achieved only by the creation of school cultures of physical and verbal non-violence; and how will this funding boost bring about the cultural changes required, so that we no longer lead the world in bullying levels, as the 1997 third international maths and science study report showed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022901cfbc5b39b490e8fd3b7447663b89e\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The member is right. The major change that we want, of course, is consistency of behaviour across schools that leads to young people not getting themselves involved in disruptive behaviour. But I would add that it is impossible for schools to deliver this on their own; they have the pupils for only 6 hours a day. I think one of the most important things we need to do is say that that culture needs to extend into the home, so that the good behaviours that are developed in the school are reinforced there. As I have said a number of times, I urge parents to contact their school, find out what it is doing, and reinforce that same pattern of behaviour in the home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c161be242534e1a8f4027216b71283e\u0022\u003ERoading\u2014Congestion Charges, Auckland\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d0f61222221418d9458d012b8bf6c25\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does she support the reported comments by Auckland Mayor Dick Hubbard in relation to congestion charges for Auckland\u2019s roads, that Auckland cannot afford to reject an idea being adopted increasingly by overseas cities; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00221e86c07efbd04c5db2394d6c8960aece\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e86c07efbd04c5db2394d6c8960aece\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I am not prepared to prejudge the review. It has gone through a consultation process up to this point. Mayor Dick Hubbard is entitled to his views. He is a member of the public, and he is entitled to express his views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283c49338be034c87a70c3ee2d2f20f36\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe we should be looking for leads from huge cities like London, which has a very developed roading network and a world-class public transport system, or should we be looking to emulate more comparable examples, such as Sydney and Melbourne, which are rolling out massive amounts of new roading and not even contemplating congestion charging?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238c55817707e49c7a34d10202e57e60f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I think the study, with its five options, actually is looking at congestion charging, and that is what public opinion is being sought on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022822b315dbd6a469ca558925dba2cfe78\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: How many submissions were received on the Auckland road pricing evaluation study?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228509fdbeb9204183a06cdd27628a1ef4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: There has been a lot of interest. I understand that over 900 submissions have been received from organisations, local authorities, and individuals. Everyone has had the opportunity to have his or her say. The submissions have now closed. I am sure Maurice Williamson would like to have a say on it, and may well have done so, because he has had many years of experience, first as Minister of Transport and then as Opposition spokesperson on transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022842584350886417cbfafb80a1a2aaef3\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think it is sensible to be even contemplating a congestion charge to try to keep people off roads, when those roads do not even exist in Auckland, and the serious problem is a network that does not exist, and what would be even more bizarre would be then to add a congestion charge to keep people off the roads that are not there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022739bceeb8a774a23aecca2444a288b8d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the study found that despite major planned capacity increases in the Auckland network\u2014for example, the Mount Roskill extension, and even the completion of the western ring route\u2014a significant additional investment in transport has also gone in, and in 10 years\u2019 time Auckland could have up to 20 percent more congestion than it does at present. It is a bit like the chicken and the egg. Do we start planning for how we will address the congestion? Does that start first? How do we pay for it? Or do we start by saying we will finish the roads before we know how we will do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022197aec82e6a94523acbd0fa954792bd4\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with recent media releases by both Waitakere City Council and North Shore City Council that claim there exists a pressing need to provide attractive transport alternatives, particularly public transport, prior to the introduction of road pricing measures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc5947159034f3396a663ea6d8744f7\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly believe we need to support public transport, and this study does have included in it a need to address public transport as well. But I could perhaps lead the member to a very good project that has already started in Auckland, called the North Shore busway. It is this sort of innovation that we ought to be looking at to help improve\u2014[Interruption] Would the member like to get on his feet and ask me that question? I will get my staff to bring down my bus ticket. I bet I have been on a bus more often than that member has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e34a111e9ae48e5988147d4d9878ed1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Was it a booze bus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248d620e697b64a35a9db1008343313ba\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Nick Smith has just made what I think was an unparliamentary comment. He insinuated something that I think he might perhaps want to reflect on, and withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fd8925e058d41e0bd9dcd67895a6783\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister referred to travelling often on buses, and I asked whether it was a booze bus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15de1865a10491ba0daabfb70cb90a3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member should please withdraw and apologise. The Minister has taken objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022559a90ac32854a0898e5146871fc51a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1348bb732794090ad9dbead279b2535\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister clarify the position: is it not true that Auckland\u2019s roading problems are in large measure a result of former National Government deliberate underfunding\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d1e24f95b284cf28a510e46aaa1ca38\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is asking a question. I have been asked to apply the rule across the board. If I did, most of the cross-bench members would be out. Please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297fafd17f47e4c838aa789a7153c6ed1\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a result of deliberate underfunding policies of previous National Governments, voting against Winston Peters\u2019 bill in 1995, and scaling back the 2.1c that was going from the Crown bank account into the National Land Transport Fund in 1999; has that not had an adverse impact on Auckland\u2019s roading problems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230028796dfa841c2953fbd407dd36bc9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: It most definitely has. We had almost a decade of abysmal underfunding in the Auckland region. It always makes one wonder how sincere the comments now are, when a party did not invest when it had the opportunity but then weeps crocodile tears at a time when it does not think a Government has invested. This Government has invested considerably. There has been 10 times more investment in major roading projects in Auckland since we became the Government, compared with when National was last in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a66c6876d88e449cb3dca7d53805152e\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Following from that, does the Government intend to fund the Auckland Regional Council\u2019s $700 million shortfall in passenger transport spending, recently identified in the draft long-term council community plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737f31c0268a4b598d08f73422471a24\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member will have to wait and see whether there is anything in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2be5e7d14d749c29287883dc7bb0f96\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Given that road pricing is due in 2011 at best, and that the Auckland Regional Council shortfall will delay key public transport initiatives beyond 2011, what action will the Government take to alleviate congestion of Auckland\u2019s roading network over the next 5 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c12b2e8e836a40ae838d77a929f36a2b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell the member that we are actively working on it right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa80d6174f604d7a8ec165ec1b2125f9\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How then does the Minister intend to gain approval for, and implement, a road pricing scheme if key passenger initiatives are not funded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d325576c35214fc8aadd7f341f354ad2\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, we will wait until the results of the review and we have heard the public submissions. We will then inform the House what we are going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220df98a0093c949579e93b6a655626af2\u0022\u003EWomen\u2019s Affairs, Ministry\u2014Nomination Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0b4262f86a045d0b34d3eb2a5a07b0b\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Women\u0027s Affairs: What steps is she taking in response to the proposal, in the New Zealand Census of Women\u2019s Participation 2006, to allow the Ministry of Women\u2019s Affairs nomination service to be used by private sector companies interested in women\u2019s appointments to boards of directors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002203b3af58ea024ccfaeb05a30e9556022\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203b3af58ea024ccfaeb05a30e9556022\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Women\u0027s Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I have asked the Ministry of Women\u2019s Affairs to explore how the success it has achieved in the public sector can be shared with the private sector. I have already informally raised the issue with both the chair and the chief executive of the New Zealand Exchange and I will be exploring ideas with them. My advice is that the nomination service was originally set up in 1979, under a National Government, as the women\u2019s appointment file and was then included in the Ministry of Women\u2019s Affairs as the nomination service by another National Government in 1992. I look forward to National members\u2019 support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be464f4c306448c88c59a88c9329b8ac\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the letter to the editor in today\u2019s Dominion Post that states: \u201Cshareholders are legally entitled to have the most qualified people available\u2014regardless of gender\u2014to manage a company\u2019s affairs.\u201D; if so, how does she reconcile that with the proposal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284316b6a07f145e4a189d85b30174cce\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have, and I fully endorse the comments apart from the mistaken reference to management rather than governance. The proposal is about ensuring the businesses concerned know who all of the qualified people are before they select the most qualified to meet the board\u2019s requirements and shareholder expectations. Everyone knows that diversity adds real strength to decision making, and that is why I can explore the proposal in the way that I will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022330fe22165bd4a4d958af5d1ad9d83b6\u0022\u003ETsunami Warning\u2014Information Management\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226173b2371a6d4b4eabacaacf33bcc168\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Civil Defence: Is he satisfied with the management of information arising from the tsunami warning this morning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5c0b6ecd89c4e4ca97642abdd3ede19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5c0b6ecd89c4e4ca97642abdd3ede19\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a617f4115e24be89b66b9dc750b9a78\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile his press release of 30 March 2006\u2014and I quote: \u201CNever before has Civil Defence had such an effective network with councils and regions.\u201D, and \u201CNew Zealanders can be assured that the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management is ready and prepared for any emergency.\u201D\u2014with the debacle that occurred this morning, and which he has accepted the ministry messed up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d49a9105a14cb8a8b2871033289c4b\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There was no acceptance of a mess-up. If the BBC, which is a reliable news outlet, says there is a tsunami when there was not, says there is a tsunami heading to New Zealand when there was not, says it is aimed at Gisborne when it was not, and says there is police alert when there was not, and if people accept the value of that news report, then the BBC is at fault. The member cannot point the finger at the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286e557aede2446bba25c276a3fabac0d\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What action did the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management take in response to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022113397957bf540568f5f1adf582bc97d\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The earthquake occurred at 3.27 this morning, and immediately afterwards the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii was in contact with the national controller. There were discussions on and off until 4 a.m., when it was reasonably clear there was no significant risk to New Zealand. At 4.30 a.m. the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center reissued its warning but excluded New Zealand. A message was then put on the emergency number by New Zealand civil defence. At 5 o\u2019clock this morning, the national crisis management centre was staffed, and at 5.36 this morning the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center cancelled its warnings because the sea level monitoring gauges at Niue, Apia, and Pago Pago indicated there was no risk of a tsunami at all. At 6 o\u2019clock civil defence was monitoring the New Zealand media, and at that time the New Zealand media were carrying no warning of a tsunami. It was only at 6.45 a.m. that the national centre became aware that the BBC was issuing such bulletins, and it immediately issued its own notice saying there was no tsunami warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fad666876e1472f88a877a2f539a7e3\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government provide New Zealanders with waterproof radios, because on today\u2019s performance we may well be swimming by the time civil defence manages to send a press release to radio stations as to whether a tsunami is on the way, given that it took 3\u00BD hours this morning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248ceb440ed124809ab31645973e4f993\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are about 20 events such as this each year. If the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management issued warnings for each one of them, New Zealanders would be sick and tired of reacting when there was in fact a civil defence emergency. Civil defence staff in New Zealand were on the case immediately after the earthquake warning. They were managing the situation, and they were accurately on top of their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217d57fa75541409282725f7d11d65e71\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why, when there was an earthquake at 3.30 a.m., and when the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center issued its warning at 3.40 a.m., there was no statement at all from his ministry until 6.50 a.m.; what sort of emergency service takes 3 hours to make any statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280d4c1c35661421587def1a1e94a4999\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member, like a lot of Opposition members, misdiagnoses and then \u201Cmisprognoses\u201D the situation in that presentation. The fact is that moments after the earthquake the New Zealand controller was aware of the earthquake, was in contact with the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center, and was constantly assessing the risk to New Zealand. At 4 o\u2019clock the best advice the staff had, on the basis of their knowledge and local advice, was that there was no threat of a tsunami to New Zealand. No warning had been issued. There was no need for a warning to be issued. The only time it became necessary to issue a warning about a tsunami was when the BBC got the situation exactly wrong, by saying there was a tsunami when there was not, and when it got it exactly wrong by saying it was heading to New Zealand when it was not. We then had to correct the error of the media. The media have a responsibility to report matters accurately. They did not do so on this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022374fedf205084ad6989c002f3dc43080\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister\u2019s department spent any time in the last year, or in the last 3 hours, on preparing documents to advise citizens on how to prepare for a tsunami when there is no tsunami?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae00c71619d74baa87eecd95127baa0f\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think some good things came out of this event. The first thing is that some years ago a tsunami warning was given out on the East Coast, and people went to the beach to watch. The best thing about this event is that when people believed a tsunami was on the way, they fled. That shows a dramatic change in attitude by New Zealanders. People are now increasingly aware of the danger, and that is a good thing. I assure the public that we are better prepared today than we were 12 months ago, and in 12 months\u2019 time we will be even better prepared again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297ebd1c1650e49a2aab7e2606746f017\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister have been concerned if the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center had not issued a warning, given the size of the earthquake in Tonga, and the very real risk at the time of the earthquake that a tsunami event could occur; and does he believe that had it not issued a warning, he would be standing here today and answering questions from the National Party about why one was not issued?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222216c86afc7f41ffb170485f66a81876\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is exactly right. As I have said to the House before, there are approximately 20 events like this in the Pacific every year, and they are managed intelligently and carefully by the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management. We cannot overreact to each one of them, because if we did the public would then get sick and tired of the warnings and would take no action when there was a genuine warning. We have a responsibility to tell people, to the best of our knowledge, what will happen. The BBC did not do that. It said a tsunami was coming, when clearly there was not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3aae11691b944a9b1515139c3d9ea8e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why, when Newstalk ZB and Television New Zealand repeatedly tried to contact the civil defence service between 5 a.m. and 7 a.m. this morning, they got no answer or an answerphone, and when they tried to phone the Minister they could get no answer or response; and what does that say about the level of preparedness New Zealand has for a real civil defence emergency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022002b2ebfc6b44d67af02c33cb21e0f92\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management is well prepared for a tsunami warning. I accept that some people were misinformed and misunderstood the situation. We will go through this event very thoroughly, and I am sure that the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management will change its operating procedures. But it is impossible to protect the New Zealand public against an erroneous message carried by a media organisation. I want to say to Nick Smith that my phone was beside my bed all night. I had one phone call at 5.30 a.m. from the Director of Civil Defence Emergency Management to tell me no tsunami was coming. No other person rang me. I can check the log, so if that member says that news organisations rang me and I did not respond at 6 o\u2019clock, that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772fb8cc10bb400ea50d93f6b0e69e4c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why, this afternoon in the House, has the Minister proceeded to blame both the media and the National Party, when his own statement said that the response this morning was inadequate, and when in the answer to my first question he said that he was not satisfied with the civil defence management this morning; and can he be specific about what was inadequate in the management of the tsunami warning this morning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220145b032464744858a40f4452583fd0b\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: When I said \u201CNo.\u201D in answer to the member\u2019s question, I meant that the management of the information\u2014principally by the BBC\u2014was appalling. The corporation was wrong on every fact, and people took its reputation seriously and reacted to that. We realise that in the future we cannot afford to be blind-sided by media organisations that are not carrying correct stories, and we will change the way we advise the public and the media accordingly. There will be improvements. I say to the House that of the 20 such events we have each year, this is the first time that this thing has been wrong, and it has been wrong because of wrong information put out by a media organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240028022d3ea4f02904a31cb6719ea0c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister, having accepted that the response by his ministry this morning was in his words \u201Cnot good enough\u201D, apologise to the thousands of New Zealanders who thought their lives were endangered this morning, and who were grossly inconvenienced because his ministry failed to make any statement till 3 hours after the event?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a041d91af1407fa5a7c876a16bd7ca\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not accept the member\u2019s version of the words I used. I do not accept that, at all. Secondly, if anybody is going to apologise to the residents of Gisborne, it should be the BBC, because the BBC said there was a tsunami, the BBC said it was on the way to New Zealand, and the BBC said there was a police warning out. That is what the BBC said, and I think it should give an apology to the public of Gisborne. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e73b7eecb134c5ab6094879b4adaa15\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I noted that the Minister said I had been incorrect in using his words that the response this morning was \u201Cnot good enough\u201D. I seek leave of the House to table the direct quote from the New Zealand Herald website titled: \u201CMinister admits tsunami reaction not good enough\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd083b5410a4cc7a7667b269e4faddc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988655a4fa3849c28d5fdd16ab3e24a3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the news releases from the North Shore, Gisborne, Napier, and Christchurch councils, stating how appalled they were at the communications from the ministry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a46b29ab8a429ca3d47a7bb863cd6d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002284f8953a75be47c7b59bbb219054a2a6\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022151c976ec0fa497da96784d07fd7c0e1\u0022\u003EBuilding Industry Reforms\u2014Document Not Tabled\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00229db6eb8b5fa34c86ad468ed637e2dd02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229db6eb8b5fa34c86ad468ed637e2dd02\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I raise it under Standing Order 400(b). Earlier, Dr Nick Smith told the House that he had not tabled a document requested by Winston Peters because he thought he had been denied leave. Every member in this House knows that when one is granted leave, one is approached by a messenger who asks for the document. Yesterday we observed Dr Smith being asked for the document, after he was granted leave. I therefore ask you, Madam Speaker, to consider whether Dr Nick Smith has deliberately misled this House by raising that excuse for not doing what he had undertaken to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca3a5a6aeeb1415b94d0fdedfbd16282\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca3a5a6aeeb1415b94d0fdedfbd16282\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. There are proper ways to raise that matter, and that is not one of them. But I also note that I accepted Dr Smith\u2019s word in the House\u2014that his memory was that that document had not been accepted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0e31ff7f418465eadea949cf50a6c3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0e31ff7f418465eadea949cf50a6c3d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. With respect, the facts are that Dr Smith sought to table a document. He was then approached, obviously, by an official of the House as to the tabling of that document. I myself observed that, and that is why I raise the issue of his not being prepared to hand that document to the House\u2019s official. He was on notice therefore, and his excuse today does not hold up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00223e71082398514ad085152d68f1a0ff8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e71082398514ad085152d68f1a0ff8e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. I am sorry. If members want to raise that matter there is a proper way to do it, and it is not in this House. I ask them to do it in that way. I have also said what my ruling was at the beginning, when the matter first arose. But the member is perfectly entitled to raise the matter with me in the appropriate way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad22251f838046528e59e43764ad5cc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad22251f838046528e59e43764ad5cc1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Two members have challenged my word, and I would draw the attention of the House to the fact that I actually sought to table several documents yesterday. I have checked back through the records, and those tablings were either denied or accepted. The other point I wish to raise is that my word has been further questioned in respect of the issue today of the civil defence ministry. I wish to inform the House that Newstalk ZB advised me this morning that it had attempted to phone the ministry\u2014that it had attempted to phone it several times between 5 a.m. and 7 a.m.\u2014and it also informed me that it had attempted to phone the Minister directly and had received no response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220980f62eb3bd492596deb1c79a1b44e0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a6378c78eba443f8a602b097100d9b4\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224af10fef90284674b1a1dda85859e195\u0022\u003ECabinet Documents\u2014Telecom New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022629fa3a327a647ceb778a9265fd034ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022629fa3a327a647ceb778a9265fd034ff\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Bill English seeking to debate, under Standing Order 380, the leak of a commercially sensitive Cabinet document relating to the telecommunications stocktake. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving the administrative responsibility of Government, but I do not consider it a matter of sufficient importance to require the House to set aside its pre-arranged business. The test is a high one. This may be a sensitive matter but in itself it lacks the exceptional policy substance necessary to justify the urgent attention of the House. There are other parliamentary opportunities in which this matter can be examined. The request is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9aeb397eae441adb3c27e7480c55fd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9aeb397eae441adb3c27e7480c55fd8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am just trying to work out the right words for this, but I find your decision extraordinary. The conduct of the executive and its accountability to this Parliament are always matters of importance. This particular circumstance, where the event on which I am seeking a debate is unprecedented in its significance and in its breach of proper process by the executive and those advisers who serve it, must be a matter of importance to this Parliament. When I consider the debates that have been accepted by previous Speakers and by yourself, I think that any number of them\u2014in fact, I think almost all of them\u2014are of lesser significance than the context of executive accountability to Parliament, the subject of this debate. The effect of your ruling is to say that a Minister may have chosen to leak that document deliberately, which could have led to major shifts in the value of New Zealand\u2019s biggest company, but that that is not sufficiently important for this Parliament to debate it. The fact here is that it is not the consequences of the leak that are of vital interest; it is rather that the executive is conducting itself in a way that undermines good government and in a way that Parliament naturally takes as a matter of serious accountability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EYou have accepted that the debate meets two criteria: it is a recent occurrence and it involves ministerial responsibility. I seek, in the interests of accepting the ruling, further elaboration on why this matter lacks importance, because that is what you are saying. You are saying that this matter is not important enough for Parliament to debate, which is the third leg of the test. I have to say after 16 years of listening to Speakers\u2019 rulings on these matters in Parliament, I am gobsmacked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u002266036ba70e6042c19e0da9f1a2ac52a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266036ba70e6042c19e0da9f1a2ac52a1\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I think, firstly, Madam Speaker, that the member did indicate in the latter part of his comment that, of course, the ruling you have made is your province, and I think it is important that we acknowledge that. Secondly, I think the point you made in the course of your ruling that is of significance here is that there will be appropriate parliamentary opportunities to debate this matter. Thirdly, Madam Speaker, in the course of question time it has been made clear to all members that there is an inquiry under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220038930789c3452f92bb4429113012a3\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: That has got nothing to do with this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c3bc49b2aa4e979f9d22487741dc2f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please allow the Minister to complete his statement in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e4e79055d4497c9cccc0d0c50f51be\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: At that point, Madam Speaker, the substance of the matter will be clear to all and sundry when the report is issued. In the meantime, you have made a ruling and it is up to members of the House to observe that in an appropriate manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00228f17222110cc4210b92e62b69a08df76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f17222110cc4210b92e62b69a08df76\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has sought to introduce the notion of its own inquiry into this debate, and I think it would find that that is counter-productive. What the executive chooses to do about that is of no interest to this Parliament. The decision about this debate hinges entirely on its importance to this Parliament. I submit to you, Madam Speaker, that the fact the Government has initiated an inquiry, and has taken the issue so seriously, underlines the fact that this is a matter of great public importance and deserves urgent consideration. Only Ministers and three officials had that piece of paper, so the Minister, I think, has lent weight to my case. He has made it clear that the Government is taking the matter seriously. The Government has initiated a wide-ranging inquiry into it, and if you took that into account you would almost certainly take the view that this is a matter sufficiently important to debate. I ask you to reflect, Madam Speaker, on other issues that have been regarded as sufficiently important to warrant debate: conduct of Ministers on issues that have affected a handful of people\u2014nothing nearly as significant and large-scale as this leak or its consequences. So if the Government wants to make the point that it is holding an inquiry, that simply underlines how important it is that Parliament gets a full opportunity for debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Minister also said that other parliamentary occasions are available. Actually, they are not. There is no opportunity for a parliamentarian to speak for 10 or 15 minutes on this issue\u2014none. That, of course, is why we have these debates, because the matters are so serious they warrant extended debate and thorough debate. Otherwise, we just put everything off to the 5-minute speeches of the general debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00222324c1c9ed2542628370497131634f4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222324c1c9ed2542628370497131634f4c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think I need to hear any more and I thank members for their comments. I want to assure members I did consider the matter very seriously. I did look at Speakers\u2019 Rulings and I did seek advice, and my decision stands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002218894c8e50b3465cb58c88e5d036ab09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218894c8e50b3465cb58c88e5d036ab09\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to debate, according to the speaking times of a snap debate, the matter of the leak of a commercially sensitive Budget document regarding Telecom New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa4f8f03d2149c98195ba1a353be254\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5dabe390261405c9a08ed8ad22b45ec\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022509d6ead71d244e6904ab1e4e5bba15b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u002214f78cdac8c84eff89dd42be6de597c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214f78cdac8c84eff89dd42be6de597c1\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014Maori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table the document I referred to today, which shows that M\u0101ori women are more likely to experience a delay of longer than 6 months in relation to cervical screening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224eee6c8177c64f93a1f6f1b2ea7aee82\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222edad7f7e8cf4062b1178bb41e1697ad\u0022\u003ECabinet Documents\u2014Telecom New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000256\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00226cc5fedf018c4eb889153d821d90915b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cc5fedf018c4eb889153d821d90915b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. [Interruption] Not only has Bill English interrupted again, when I started my point of order, but he interrupted you before. But the point of order I am raising is quite separate. He challenged your decision and suggested that you had been leaned on in making that decision. That is grossly out of order, and I think action should be taken against that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00222a79ea88a6514f168c3787c1296122bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a79ea88a6514f168c3787c1296122bb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear the comment, but if the member said that, would he please withdraw and apologise. I, personally, considered this matter very seriously. I certainly understand that the member thinks seriously about it, but I have to judge all factors, and that is what I did as Speaker\u2014not as Chair of the House, but as Speaker. Would the member please withdraw and apologise if he made that comment on my impartiality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221e57006e12144bd0897378a713b3c985\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e57006e12144bd0897378a713b3c985\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc3be655ae14201af8cc4f45d8996a3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b24e32786f5d4a9bb4f4a93b5f8a90b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b24e32786f5d4a9bb4f4a93b5f8a90b5\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not think you should in any way underestimate our surprise at not getting this snap debate. I think it would be useful\u2014given the very, very considered views put by the Hon Bill English and your consequent response suggesting that you had personally spent a lot of time thinking about this particular issue\u2014and not too much to ask for you to tell us why you think Parliament should not be able to express a view on the very, very serious leak of a Budget document that we know was held by only Ministers and three officials. Clearly, there is a major problem here. The Government has to deal with it, but Parliament must surely be able to express a view. If that is not to be the case and that is your ruling, then perhaps it would be fair to give us more reason for that view than simply that you do not consider it appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241881b010e64422a94940d501c0c6d5b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have judged the matter in terms of both the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 Rulings. I have balanced the factors, and I have made the decision consistent with the way in which the rulings are given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u00220d990e5f01ec4fe5a738c3fdf5e990c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d990e5f01ec4fe5a738c3fdf5e990c4\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I raise this in most serious terms, because you have to make a judgment about how important an issue is and whether it deserves the attention of the House. I have been in this House for nearly 20 years, and I have never seen an event that has had such a dramatic impact on the value of New Zealand\u2019s biggest company. That is clear. I have a press statement that came out just before lunchtime that states that $1.1 billion\u2014not million, but $1.1 billion\u2014had been wiped off the value of one of New Zealand\u2019s biggest companies, a company in which a lot of ordinary New Zealanders hold shares. If that is not a very important issue that was sparked by the leak and the scurry to sort it out, then I simply do not know of anything of that magnitude that has occurred in this Parliament during my time. I ask you to reflect on that and on whether you have seen anything bigger that was caused by the actions of a leaked document and by officials running round and Ministers releasing stuff, so that by this morning Telecom\u2019s share price dropped below the $5 mark. I believe that is the biggest ever implication I have seen from such an action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c3ed2b5c484206905ce3969c47dd4b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. That was certainly one of the factors I took into account. Is there anything further? I have ruled on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00225795277d260e4ea088d1afa9148a9f5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225795277d260e4ea088d1afa9148a9f5d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E My point is simply this. That argument that was put to you by Mr Williamson is totally refuted by the facts of the Australian share market, which was trading after the New Zealand announcement. It was there that the share market saw a change in the shares, not on the basis of the leak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbd1ea6208af4dbf9c4a66e82c176efb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00228af5244c46e446438efc5dc179dc2711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228af5244c46e446438efc5dc179dc2711\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afde7d28fb174aeebf4b043efb6b5915\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled on the matter, and if the member wishes to continue on this matter, I will rule his point of order out of order. If it is an entirely new matter, that is appropriate, but I will rule the member out of order if he continues the debate on my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c80642d66f3c40edb43d19ca529a902d\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I am not attempting to challenge your ruling. I understand your ruling, but I would like to raise a different element of that ruling, which is that my colleague Mr English rightfully raised the issue of this being of significant importance. If one is to think through what occurred on this particular occasion, one will see that this was an action that was brought forward on the part of the Government because the leak, of itself, breached the stock exchange rules. If the company itself had not rung the Minister\u2019s office and simply gone public with this information, it would have been demanded and required to do that because of the stock exchange. That would have been an issue of unparalleled importance to the New Zealand financial markets. If this information came from the Minister\u2019s office, that Minister could not survive in Cabinet. These are the rules that establish and control the financial markets of New Zealand, and\u2014not wishing to challenge your ruling\u2014you are telling the Opposition today that this is not a matter of importance. Yet the very rules that drive our stock exchange were breached. It cannot be a matter that is not important. It simply must be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f5db77b65247a0884ff57cb5bef4c1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. We are starting to relitigate, but I appreciate his comments. I have considered all the matters very seriously, consistent with the rules of the Standing Orders and previous Speakers\u2019 rulings. I now call on Government order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9a7198388444fc3a05a80dbc406705d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9a7198388444fc3a05a80dbc406705d\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f03f83f85894111afa3c76342aff540\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled on this matter, Mr Brownlee. The debate is actually becoming repetitious, so if you wish to remain in the House, you will allow the House to move on. I call on Government order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002210d76e90d382455380e01cbbc19b49ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210d76e90d382455380e01cbbc19b49ef\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We have not challenged your ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c1b338927a449fe9a5fa0a45b95954a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Brownlee, but everything I have heard is a challenge, even though you are not saying you are challenging it. There is nothing more to be said on this matter. I have ruled. I want now for the Government\u2019s business to continue with Government order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229af072651df04e8aa2f46bbaf6bc31ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229af072651df04e8aa2f46bbaf6bc31ed\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is with some disappointment that I wish to announce to this House that we will hold a press conference later this afternoon to fully explain our position, because this is the most serious loss of opportunity for us that the Chair has ever denied\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249cc646b84b4404eb34c516494cb0374\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is entitled to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222122fa7bc1024ad68fd6122eff98d538\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I am afraid, Madam Speaker, that it will lead to a suggestion that there is collusion between the Government and the Speaker to prevent this matter being discussed in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fa76abd41e445b946e1c5d38067c8e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Brownlee, but if you make that allegation, you had better have the evidence to prove it; otherwise it is a very serious matter. [Interruption] You have intimated that that is maybe what you would do. All I am saying to you is that if you do, you must be prepared to back it up with evidence. There was no collusion with anyone in the making of this decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00228ab0347e95904babae9b1c9b6446c2d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ab0347e95904babae9b1c9b6446c2d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. With the greatest of respect, it is not a matter of you waiting around for a press conference for the member to make that allegation; he has made it right in front of you, right now, and that is totally unacceptable. Unless he withdraws and apologises for what was a clear threat, by inference or by any other way, then he should be removed from this House. He is meant to be a senior member of the National Party. He is, in fact, No. 2 and is his party\u2019s spokesman in the House on the House\u2019s order. He cannot get away with doing that. I have never seen anybody make that sort of allegation and get away with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cf0d50e10524302a763b3188f09d966\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What I heard Mr Brownlee say was that he was not making that allegation but it was a possibility that there would be a press conference. If I misheard, I apologise to the member. I accept his word that he has not made that allegation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002202a594885a994206afbf872ac20839ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202a594885a994206afbf872ac20839ba\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I want to make it clear that I did not make that allegation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022425bdb1a8d224acf87d0dacc8085c93a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have accepted that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229668ecdd93f04773a03abf4c2f441790\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and my Hansard will show that. But I do think that the tension around this may well be alleviated if the Government would recognise the situation we are in and be a bit more flexible and reasonable on this matter. So I seek leave, once more, for this House to have a debate, conducted under the rules of a snap debate, led off by the Hon Bill English, who put the letter in in the first place\u2014now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8224ad1ba754a62bf72c6978987b82c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0516de383984a79addd89c646a366c2\u0022\u003ETe Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002273ace51ea0224e9da69508a923273b49\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u002267b8d19fbaf44bde8f27806ac1aa7b80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267b8d19fbaf44bde8f27806ac1aa7b80\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be now read a first time. I intend to move at the appropriate time that this bill be considered by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 192 and 195(1)(b) and (c), and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 4 August 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003ETe Arawa is a large confederation of iwi and hap\u016B, consisting of approximately 40,000 members. Its traditional area of interest ranges from Maket\u016B to Tongariro in the south. In 1987 the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board, on behalf of Te Arawa, lodged the Te Arawa lakes claim with the Waitangi Tribunal. Rather than proceeding with a hearing, Te Arawa entered into preliminary discussions with the Crown. For nearly 20 years Te Arawa has sought to settle its grievances in relation to the Te Arawa lakes. This bill will settle all of Te Arawa\u2019s historical Treaty claims arising from Crown actions in relation to the lakes from 1840 to 1992 and any claims relating to the annuity payments. In settling these claims, the Crown acknowledges the spiritual, cultural, economic, and traditional importance of the lakes and their resources to Te Arawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe Crown also acknowledges that a number of Crown actions have caused grievance to Te Arawa. The Crown acknowledges, for example, that it failed to legislate for a sufficient number of fishing licences for Te Arawa in 1908, when it promoted legislation to address the problem of hardship. The Crown acknowledges that the introduction of exotic fish species significantly depleted the indigenous species upon which Te Arawa depended for food, hospitality, trade, and koha. The Crown further acknowledges that Te Arawa petitioned the Crown for several years concerning the depletion of indigenous species and access to new species, and that some members of Te Arawa were prosecuted for fishing without a licence in the lakes during that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe Crown acknowledges that it failed to review the annuity paid to Te Arawa, as part of its 1922 agreement regarding the lakes, when that annuity lost value materially as a result of inflation. Although the 1922 agreement is not challenged by this settlement, this bill will settle all Te Arawa\u2019s historical claims relating to the lakes at any time between 1840 and 1992, including any claims relating to the 1922 agreement, the Native Land Amendment and Native Lands Claims Adjustment Act 1922, and the annuity payments pursuant to the 1922 agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EI wish at this time to acknowledge the work of the former Ministers of treaty negotiations the Hon Sir Douglas Graham and the Hon Margaret Wilson, whose efforts have culminated in the bill that is before this House today. I also wish to acknowledge the Hon Parekura Horomia and former Ministers of M\u0101ori Affairs whose efforts have contributed to this settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EIn December 2004 Te Arawa overwhelmingly agreed to a settlement package to settle its historical grievances, by signing the deed of settlement. In developing the deed of settlement, both the Crown and Te Arawa agreed that the protection of the lakes and the protection of the public\u2019s right to access and use the lakes were of critical importance. This bill gives effect to aspects of that agreement. The bill settles all of Te Arawa\u2019s claims, including those in relation to the annuity to the lakes. It vests the fee simple estate of 13 lake beds in Te Arawa, with the Crown retaining ownership of the water column and the airspace above the lake beds. The bill records a formal apology to Te Arawa, to the t\u016Bpuna, to their descendants, and to the iwi and hap\u016B of Te Arawa, for the Crown\u2019s breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi relating to the Te Arawa lakes. The bill provides a statutory acknowledgment to recognise Te Arawa\u2019s long spiritual, cultural, historical, economic, and traditional associations with the lakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E The bill provides a financial redress of $2.7 million to recognise the economic loss suffered by Te Arawa arising from breaches by the Crown of its treaty obligations in relation to the lakes. In doing so, the rights of the general public to access the lakes for recreational purposes are protected, as are existing structures and commercial uses. The fee simple estate of Lake \u014Ckaro remains vested in the Rotorua District Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe bill also establishes the Rotorua Lakes Strategy Group as a joint committee under the Local Government Act 2002. The strategy group is made up of representatives from Environment Bay of Plenty, the Rotorua District Council, and the Te Arawa Lakes Trust. Its purpose is to advise on the sustainable management of the lakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe transfer of title to the lake beds and the establishment of the Rotorua Lakes Strategy Group addresses the grievances of Te Arawa, and engages both Te Arawa and the community in the management of the lakes. I think that is an important area of cooperation in this agreement. The bill makes it clear that this is a final settlement of all the historical claims Te Arawa has in relation to the 14 lakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EI wish to assure the public that the Crown is confident of the validity of the claims settled by this bill, and has negotiated with the interests of the taxpayer in mind and in full cognisance of the fact that the lakes provide significant enjoyment for many New Zealanders. I also want to congratulate Te Arawa on the open and transparent way it has approached these negotiations. Te Arawa\u2019s tenacity in dealing with a number of Governments over the years, and its willingness to have regard to the interests of New Zealand society as a whole in negotiating the settlement, are admirable, in my view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003ETreaty settlement negotiations can, as members know, be difficult and occasionally contentious. Treaty settlement negotiations require the Crown to balance a range of interests. Challenges to settlements are not surprising, given the nature of the interests that are potentially at stake. In the course of the Crown\u2019s negotiations with Te Arawa, a number of challenges were raised by some who were concerned about protecting their hap\u016B interests. The Crown and Te Arawa worked to ensure that the issues raised by those people were addressed fairly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThis settlement has a high level of support from members of Te Arawa, with 93 percent of the eligible voters who participated in the deed of settlement ratification supporting the settlement offer. I wish to acknowledge those Te Arawa people, including those no longer with us, who suffered as a result of the Crown\u2019s breaches of the treaty. E ng\u0101 mate, haere, haere, haere. To you the dead, farewell. This bill lays the foundation for a strong and positive relationship between the Crown and Te Arawa into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EI wish to thank the other Ministers and departments involved in this settlement, and, in particular, the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, the Minister of Finance, the Minister for the Environment, the Minister of Fisheries, and the Minister of Conservation, who all supported the process throughout. I would also like to thank and acknowledge the Rotorua District Council and Environment Bay of Plenty for working with Te Arawa and demonstrating the meaning of partnership with iwi. I believe the Mayor and Deputy Mayor of Rotorua are in the gallery today, alongside a councillor from Environment Bay of Plenty. Their attendance, I think, as important representatives from local government, further demonstrates the support this bill enjoys from within the Rotorua community. I want to acknowledge the Office of Treaty Settlements for the work done in seeking a just and fair settlement. As New Zealanders, we can be proud that real and significant grievances are being recognised and settled peacefully, within the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EIn particular, I would like to take time to thank the past and present members of the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board for their dedication and determination, on behalf of their people, to seek a resolution of their grievances. This bill will dissolve the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board and release it from its duties, allowing the Te Arawa Lakes Trust to take over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe people of Te Arawa have waited a long time and worked very hard to realise the settlement of their historical treaty claims to the lakes. I consider the bill should therefore proceed without delay to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and be reported back by 4 August 2006. That will allow the timely transfer of the settlement redress to Te Arawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to acknowledge the elders, the members of the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board, the members of the newly established Te Arawa Lakes Trust, the Te Arawa negotiators, and the members of Te Arawa. They have been a constructive and conscientious group to work with, and their commitment on behalf of their people, their ancestors, and their descendants has led us to this historic event. I want to welcome those members of Te Arawa who are in the gallery, many of whom have travelled far to join us today, to observe and be part of this important moment. This is an opportunity for us all to restore the integrity in the relationship between Te Arawa and the Crown. With that, I have great pleasure and regard it a privilege to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022cac6bb963c0049d48d27b4edd4de95a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cac6bb963c0049d48d27b4edd4de95a5\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E It is appropriate that we acknowledge in this House those who have gone before us who were part of the Te Arawa iwi, and recognise that the discussions over these lakes have gone on for a great number of years. We should recognise that those discussions, by and large, were conducted in good faith, and that those who were party to them were participating in those discussions and decisions in a manner that was determined towards getting the best result for Te Arawa and for the rest of the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to treaty settlements it is extremely important that the concept of full and final is well embedded. Although we freely admit that in most settlement cases\u2014probably all\u2014there is great generosity from the party being settled, when it comes to comparative values today versus the time of either the confiscation or other grievance, we none the less have to move forward, and we do not have opportunities like this one simply to keep relitigating issues that should have been dealt with once and for all. So although National Party members will participate fully in the select committee process that considers the bill and will ask many, many questions about the construction of the bill itself, as well as about the intentions of the settlement, we are not in a position today to support this reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI hope during the select committee we may come to understand why Te Arawa have got back into this negotiation today, when in 1922 they wrote to the King\u2014I think it was George IV at the time\u2014stating: \u201CWe thank you and Parliament for this year\u2019s legislation, fulfilling all promises and engagements made to the Arawas since the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, thus again proving that England\u2019s stated word is a sacred bond capable of fulfilment.\u201D I do not think we could get a more powerful statement accepting that an arrangement should endure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENational is prepared to recognise that the annuity needs to be tidied up. It is ridiculous. No one can do anything with such a small amount of money, so on a commercial basis, yes, we should increase it. We support that provision in the bill without reservation. But the mere fact that there is an annuity gives weight to the argument that the settlement in 1922, or in the years subsequent, was genuine and valid, and should have been considered full and final. If the Office of Treaty Settlements has some other view, then I want it to be made clear that it has never conveyed that viewpoint to National members. If the Government has another view, and has some reason to back it up, I want it to be made clear that it has never conveyed that viewpoint to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo although we appreciate that there is a great need to speed up the process of treaty settlements in this country, and a great need to move on from our times of grievance, we are not able to support the bill in its current state. We will take some convincing that those who have gone before\u2014who made a decision, who accepted an undertaking from the Crown, and who complimented the Crown on the arrangement\u2014were somehow wrong and were somehow duped, and that those who duped them somehow cheated them. That is not what the words of the letter say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is worth pointing out that although the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations says the Crown is very happy with the bill, Crown Law advised the Government that the settlement was not required. It advised that it was a political decision. If a Government makes a political decision, then it should say so. It should not dress it up as being the settlement of some sort of longstanding grievance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b39330ce2a949a2a3fc42e08ebb288b\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a justice decision; you know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e88e45d770945bbaff704428a8b2320\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that that letter to the King was sent with good intent. I do not think Te Arawa sent the letter to the King in 1922 as some sort of joke. I do not think their acknowledgment of the legislation as \u201Cfulfilling all promises and engagements made to the Arawas since the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi\u201D was just something out there in the ether that they could say then but that, 82 years later, their descendants could turn over. It worries a lot of New Zealanders that this process may never end. This bill, unfortunately, gives weight to that argument. It makes it difficult to move to the point that all New Zealanders would like to see where things are dealt with in a fairer way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Samuels that the part of this that is unjust is, no doubt, the annuity. We do not have any problem with fixing that. It is a crying shame that it was not fixed a lot sooner. If it is such a deep, heartfelt thing for Mr Samuels, why was it not fixed when he had the ministry\u2014he having sat on that side of the House for 6 or 7 years now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAs I said before, we as a party have a commitment to seeing Treaty settlements completed speedily. We have a view that grievances should be settled fairly, and that those grievances should be settled as a recognition, lawfully, that something was wrong. That is not the case here. It is very clear. The Crown\u2019s own advisers are saying this is a political decision. Notwithstanding that, let me again give our assurance that although our vote will not be in favour of the bill today, our participation in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee will be full and attentive. We will work to deliver a bill that does not see people back in this House in 82 years\u2019 time saying that what we did today was somehow dishonourable and disreputable, and that they need to have another go at it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb5e5c45ebb4a67a84315d17af9fb44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb5e5c45ebb4a67a84315d17af9fb44\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I thank members for their forbearance. Tihei mauri ora! Tuku mauri ora ki te wheiao ki te ao m\u0101rama. Te Arawa waka, Te Arawa tangata, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Koutou hoki ng\u0101 rangatira, koutou hoki i kawe mai t\u0113nei kaupapa i roto i ng\u0101 piki me ng\u0101 heke, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Kei te koa te hari, ka whakauru mai t\u0113nei pire in\u0101ianei n\u0101 te mea, kei kite mai te iwi wh\u0101nui o Aotearoa te h\u014Dhonutanga o te kaupapa nei. Tua atu i t\u0113n\u0101, te roanga ake i tatari mai koutou ki te whakataungia te kaupapa nei. Te hari au m\u014D koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[Behold the sneeze of life to the world of enlightenment and awareness. To the canoe and people of Te Arawa, to you the chiefs and especially those of you who were responsible for bringing this matter here despite the ups and downs, greetings to you, greetings to you, and greetings to you all. It is pleasing and timely for this bill to be presented now so that the people of New Zealand can see the depth of this matter. Further to that, you have waited a long time to have this matter settled. I am overjoyed for you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E  The settlement between the Crown and Te Arawa hands ownership of the lakes to the Rotorua tribe; it vests the lake bed titles in the iwi. I must say the only difference between this issue and the Lake Taup\u014D issue is that it involves more than one lake and the compensation is probably a little bit more than the T\u016Bwharetoa settlement. The previous speaker raised concerns about the bill; if he and his party support the bill going to a select committee, that will provide the opportunity to raise those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the bill as a settlement of a genuine historical grievance. We recognise that some members of Te Arawa have concerns about the terms of the settlement, but by supporting the referral of the bill our party is giving those people the opportunity to articulate their concerns to the select committee. The best thing is that the bill includes the transfer of 13 lake beds to the Te Arawa Lakes Trust, with the Crown retaining ownership of the water column and airspace. I think that Te Arawa needs to be recognised for the fact that they are sharing the responsibility of the care of what is essentially their asset with the rest of the community. I understand the Te Arawa Lakes Trust will include Environment Bay of Plenty, the Rotorua District Council, the Ministry of Fisheries, and the Department of Conservation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe bill protects recreational activities such as swimming, fishing, and boating, and provides conditions under which such activities can take place. I know that some people within the Rotorua community, both M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori, do not support the bill, but given the support of a large number of those eligible to vote, it is worthy that the bill has been brought to the House and will be referred to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe bill protects existing commercial activities, but new commercial activities and structures will require consent from the Te Arawa Lakes Trust. The bill puts Te Arawa in charge of the lakes, with the Rotorua District Council and Environment Bay of Plenty providing support. Te Arawa will not be liable for weeds or contamination within the lakes, but that is an issue that requires a concerted and combined strategy by all stakeholders to ensure the sustainability of the lakes. I have no doubt that the trust\u2019s members will certainly address that issue. The bill provides for the establishment of the Rotorua Lakes Strategy Group to promote the sustainable management of the lakes, while recognising and providing for the traditional relationship of Te Arawa with their ancestral lakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe bill essentially has four parts. Part 1 outlines the purpose of the Act, which we are quite clear about; Part 2 provides cultural redress; Part 3 also contains other cultural redress; and Part 4 deals with miscellaneous provisions. I want to make it clear that New Zealand First supports the bill. I say that in spite of Te Arawa not coming to see us. But never mind, kei te pai. We believe in the kaupapa. Te Arawa owns the lake bed and subsoil strata, and that in itself gives it title. There might be some confusion about the seabed and foreshore issue. Some M\u0101ori may ask why what has been proposed in this bill cannot be proposed for the seabed and foreshore issue. But that is another matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EIn the cultural redress provision, rights and obligations of ownership are articulated. Firstly, the title is vested in the trustees and they hold it on behalf of all the people of Te Arawa. Secondly, a freehold estate in the lake beds is inalienable; that means they cannot put it on the market to get rid of it or mortgage it. No charge or mortgage is to be created. Transfer or transmission to trustees is permitted. Te Arawa is not liable for the weeds or contamination within the lakes, but I am quite sure the trust itself has a responsibility to ensure that that issue is controlled. Cultural redress also contains recreational activities being protected, and that includes but is not limited to swimming, boating, waterskiing, and fishing activities. So those people who have buildings on the lake shore have their entitlements protected. It provides conditions under which those activities may take place. Of course, there are recreational activities such as fishing and kayaking. In fact, what has taken off within M\u0101oridom is waka ama. But we want to be sure that the bill protects existing structures\u2014that structures that are currently in or on a Te Arawa lake bed are protected. Of course, the trust will need to do a structure audit. Conditions that apply to existing structures are set out and Te Arawa are not liable for existing structures. The bill talks about jetties, boatsheds, ramps, moorings, and other structures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI want to make sure that the people of Te Arawa are quire clear that this is a final settlement of a historical claim. I know they have been waiting quite a long time to see this come to some conclusion, and I hope that the introduction of the bill and referral to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee will go a long way towards settling this overdue issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca891c695a7b4a9a805594ac27d74d9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca891c695a7b4a9a805594ac27d74d9f\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to acknowledge at the outset the people of Te Arawa who are here. As the deputy leader of the National Party said, we acknowledge and understand the significance and the importance of this issue to the people of Te Arawa. I grew up in Reporoa, so I am well familiar with Te Arawa\u2019s relationship with the community and, indeed, with the lakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI wish to make some particular points for the record. There will obviously be an opportunity in the future to hear the submissions, to go through the material in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and to consider things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe first point to note is that I suggest that this is an unusual settlement. It is not of the same character as the settlements of Tainui, of the various iwi of the Taranaki area, and of various other iwi throughout the country. The reason is that this matter has already been subject to a settlement in the 1920s. That particular settlement was a result of a consensual process; it was not an imposed settlement. Everyone in this House would acknowledge that the situations of Tainui and of the Taranaki iwi, in particular, were quite different. There was a history of confiscation there as a result of the New Zealand Wars of the 1860s\u2014a radically different situation from that of Te Arawa. In fact, it is worth noting that Te Arawa has had a particularly friendly relationship with the Crown, and that it has extended over a period beginning pre-1865 and continuing post-1865. I have to note, at least for the sake of historical accuracy, that that particular friendship was not always appreciated by neighbouring tribes, particularly during that era.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe reason I put that on the record is that that relationship flavoured the consensual nature of the 1920s settlement. As I said, it was not a settlement that was born out of war or of oppression; it was one that was freely and fairly negotiated. But today we are revisiting it. That is one of the concerns that National has raised in the past and raises today. Free and consensual settlements ought to endure, but, in fact, we are overturning this particular settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI turn to the two particular aspects of significance. As Mr Brownlee has noted, the first element of the current settlement is the updating of the financial settlement. That part is very reasonable. The 1920s figure for the annuity ought to be updated, and there is a very particular reason why I say that. No one in the 1920s, whether on the side of the Crown or on that of Te Arawa, could have anticipated the level of inflation that occurred in the subsequent 86 years. This might seem a rather artificial statement to make, but the truth is that the 20th century experienced a vastly greater level of inflation than had ever, ever occurred in the history of mankind. In the 18th and 19th centuries, and in the centuries prior to them, inflation was virtually non-existent\u2014it was almost an unknown concept. It is truly a creation of the 20th century, and to a significant degree it has disappeared in the last 10 years. So, in that sense, the annuity ought to be updated to remove, effectively, the effects of that inflation. That is being done and, indeed, it is being capitalised. National supports that particular aspect of the settlement, and we have recorded that support today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe second part of the settlement, however\u2014and I have to put it this way\u2014is the complete reversal of the position of the 1920s settlement. In 1922 the lake beds were transferred to the Crown, effectively in return for the annuity. It was literally a sale, if you will. Today we are reversing that sale but actually updating the annuity, as well. So if we look at it in that sense, we find that we are reversing a situation where actual consideration was given to the transfer of the lake beds, and today are returning them as, let us say, a gift. But the effect of that is, of course, to call into question the enduring nature of consensual settlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI want to look more closely at the nature of the transfer of the lake beds. I noted that Pita Paraone said that it was really no different from the case of Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa and Lake Taup\u014D, and I certainly understand my colleague the Hon Georgina te Heuheu\u2019s concerns about, and interests in, that particular issue. This is more than just a symbolic transfer. There is actually quite a significant difference between the two situations. The Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa situation did not require legislation; it was a matter, essentially, of the M\u0101ori Land Court, and that was because the ownership had never been formally transferred in the way that occurred in the Te Arawa situation, in the 1920s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe second point is that the ownership is intended to be more than merely symbolic. Certainly, that is how the Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa transfer was interpreted back then; perhaps there is some difference on that issue today. The legislation that we are presented with specifically states that Te Arawa can lease, for terms of up to 35 years, the lake beds. They can license\u2014in fact, in perpetuity\u2014the use of the lake beds, presumably for a fee. Mr Pita Paraone referred to the protection of existing interests, both those of the Crown, where there are particular interests, and also those of other owners. He referred to jetties, boatsheds, ramps, boathouses, and the like. In this instance, however, it will be completely in the power of Te Arawa, as I understand it, as owners, to allow people\u2014or not, as the case may be\u2014to build jetties, ramps, and so forth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2ac1cf472c7469da8fba924c881c498\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242beafaff7f14d97a401dcb6109c6868\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, as Tariana Turia has quite rightly said, that is a consequence of ownership that is intended to be more than a symbolic transfer. That is a very significant change indeed, and quite different, I suggest, from the situation of Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa. It is a complete reversal of the situation in the 1920s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI might just conclude on this particular point. In many ways, and I noted this specifically some 2 years ago when these negotiations were being mooted, the Te Arawa settlement was intended to forecast what would happen with the foreshore and seabed. I suggest that in some respects at least\u2014perhaps not many\u2014it has done so. In fact, I guess the particular complaint of the M\u0101ori Party in particular is that the foreshore and seabed legislation does not mirror that of the Te Arawa case, where there is a true transfer of ownership. But, as many will know, that has caused real controversy in the region of Rotorua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI conclude on this point. Lake beds, riverbeds, the foreshore in particular, and the seabed have historically been considered part of the commons\u2014owned by all of us, all New Zealanders, irrespective of race and background, in common. This settlement sets a precedent whereby a large number of lakes in the North Island will now be owned by a particular group, Te Arawa. I understand that it is, obviously, due to the historic connection, but it is a revolutionary change and not one that National thinks is in the national interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00221eea792d17fc421e926140d4efebb72a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eea792d17fc421e926140d4efebb72a\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Te manuhiri t\u016B\u0101rangi, ng\u0101 kaum\u0101tua, ng\u0101 rangatira o Te Arawa kua tae tautoko mai i t\u0113nei ahiahi, nau mai, haere mai, whakatau mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E[To the visitors from afar, to the elders and chiefs of Te Arawa who have come in support this afternoon, welcome, welcome, alight here.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe return of the Te Arawa lakes to their rightful owners has been a very long time in coming, and the Greens are pleased to see this bill finally before the House. We warmly welcome Te Arawa and their bill to Parliament. We want, first, to recognise the incredibly hard work by the iwi and the negotiators on their behalf who have been working through the Government\u2019s negotiation process. It is an extremely difficult and a very costly, time-consuming, and often truly heart-rending process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt will come as no surprise to this House, and probably to pretty much anyone else, that the Greens have a continued and sustained objection to the Government\u2019s Treaty claims settlement process, because we believe it is fundamentally unfair to the claimants. The redress generally offered by the Government pales in comparison with other redress for other issues\u2014let us take the West Coast forests and the Titford settlement, for example. The conditions that iwi must agree to in order to gain redress for the wrongs committed in the name of this Parliament are, in our opinion, unconscionable. It still remains a serious problem that this Government refuses to properly inform and educate the community about the settlements as they arise, thereby leaving those communities vulnerable to the M\u0101ori bashing rhetoric and antics of irresponsible political parties. I will touch on that briefly a bit later on. I just want to make clear that our criticism of settlement bills has been, and will continue to be, squarely directed at the Government\u2019s framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe were very impressed with the nature of the redress in this bill, and we fully support the return of the ownership of the lake beds to Te Arawa. We also fully support Te Arawa having a strong regulatory role over the lakes. I know it is not as strong as perhaps some people would have preferred. The fact is that there remain in our law opportunities for councils to delegate regulatory functions to iwi and hap\u016B organisations, but not once, I understand, have those provisions ever been used to enable hap\u016B and iwi to exercise those functions at a local level. I refer to things like being able to approve or not approve resource consents. It is the failure to use those mechanisms that causes major problems where hap\u016B and iwi have responsibilities as mana whenua in the area, and could well take on those obligations, but councils refuse to allow that. We are very pleased to see in this bill at least some attempt to allow that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EFor example, consents will be required from Te Arawa for the construction of new structures on the seabed. They can charge for the occupation of that space, and also regulate and manage new types of commercial activities on the lake beds. We think that those are very good provisions, and at least are a small start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis bill demonstrates that the rights of other users can be catered for where title and ownership are shifted back to the rightful owners. In this case, public access to the lakes is guaranteed. Recreational activities, like swimming and picnics, remain open to all members of the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe were horrified that just a few years ago, particularly around 2004, the settlement of the claim regarding these lakes was used as a political football by the National Party to drum up opposition to M\u0101ori. That followed on from Don Brash\u2019s racist speech, and occurred on the back of the foreshore and seabed issue. We considered that attack on Te Arawa showed just how deeply frightened Don Brash and the National Party were that M\u0101ori would have any kind of decision making over anything, including their own property\u2014like the lakes. In one interview, when referring to the possibility that people may have to get permission from Te Arawa to put up a jetty in the lakes, Don Brash said: \u201CIt seems to me that that opens the way to all kinds of blackmail and extortion.\u201D The Greens consider that comment to be absolutely disgusting. It shows just how much contempt Don Brash holds for M\u0101ori in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EBut let us not forget, given the provisions of this bill, that the recognition of title and the capacity for management over these kinds of areas does not interfere with public rights, as described by the Government. Surely the Government can only reflect on its own shameful, and what I consider abusive, behaviour in promoting and passing the foreshore and seabed legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe fully support the return of the lakes to Te Arawa, and we expect that these old, new, rightful owners will be able to provide the necessary will that should see the eventual cleaning up and restoration of the lakes. Those lakes are incredibly precious and beautiful, and of extraordinary ecological and spiritual importance to everybody. But they are dying, and they are dying as a result of the pollution caused by human activity over the last 80 years, when the lakes have been out of the hands of their hap\u016B. Leakage from septic tanks is a classic example. It has caused enormous problems. The deforestation of the surrounding areas, which are pumice soils, has caused continuing problems, and there remains the very serious issue of pollution from farm runoff, which is causing nutrient loading in the lakes. Much of the soil water contributes to nutrient loading, and it can take up to 30 years for the nutrients on the land to make their way down into the water itself. That means that the damage from 30 years ago will take many more years before it comes to fruition. It also means that there is an absolutely desperate need for urgent action now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe hap\u016B and iwi\u2014Te Arawa\u2014are committed to taking that action. When I met with Te Arawa about the bill, I was really pleased to hear about the plans to restore the wetlands around the lakes. That is just one example of action. The wetlands are incredible ecosystems and many have been lost in New Zealand because they were drained for farmland, which then caused the nutrient problems. Wetlands are highly sensitive. They are key indicators of the health of an area as well as key indicators of climate change, and they operate as a critical protection mechanism for lakes and other waterways. So hearing that from Te Arawa reminds us that hap\u016B and iwi have a huge capacity to manage areas of ecological importance outside and separate from the Government structures that are in place but have failed to do that so far. We have incredible faith and belief that hap\u016B and iwi structures are capable of doing that work, and are committed to doing it long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process we will hear from other mana whenua and hap\u016B from around the area who are unhappy about the settlement. We welcome those views and submissions, because it is only by hearing about those stories, those concerns, and the failures of the process that we can really establish systems to address them. I know it can be very difficult for the claimant groups to hear the issues being relitigated, but it is still important to have all of those issues heard. I certainly look forward to hearing both from Te Arawa and from those hap\u016B at the select committee. The Greens thank and welcome Te Arawa for all the work they have done so far. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u00228648d7045c2e4e2ea2e95f4d4c6a7283\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228648d7045c2e4e2ea2e95f4d4c6a7283\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E Otir\u0101 Te Arawa waka, Te Arawa tangata, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, nau mai, haere mai. Ehara m\u0101 te p\u014Dtiki e t\u016B ki te whakatau atu i a koutou, koir\u0101 hoki e mihi au ki taku hoa rangatira n\u014D Te R\u014Dp\u016B T\u014Drangap\u016B o Aotearoa Tuatahi, n\u0101na koutou i whakatau. N\u014D reira e Pita, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Otir\u0101, kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[Indeed to you the canoe and people of Te Arawa, greetings to you, greetings to you, welcome, welcome. It is not for the youngest to stand and welcome you here, and that is why I acknowledge my chiefly colleague from New Zealand First who did that. So thank you Pita, and greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EIt probably comes as no surprise to the House that I stand to support the legislation. I am quite disappointed with some of the remarks that have been made in the House, particularly in relation to the history of the Te Arawa lakes and their confiscation, but I will address some of those matters throughout the duration of my speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThese claims relate to the 14 lakes that were the subject of the 1922 agreement between Te Arawa and the Crown. The lakes were: Ng\u0101hewa, Ng\u0101pouri, \u014Ckareka, Ng\u0101karo, \u014Ckataina, Rerewhakaaitu, Rotoehu, Rotoiti, Rotom\u0101, Rotomahana, Rotorua, Tarawera, Tikitapu, and T\u016Btae\u012Bnanga. Te Arawa are here in the House today, and I acknowledge their presence here. I do not know what it is that Opposition members do not understand about the history of Te Arawa, but surely their presence here today would totally rule out the statements made by National\u2019s deputy leader, Gerry Brownlee. In fact, the transfer of the Te Arawa lakes from Te Arawa to the Crown was not a willing arrangement. Te Arawa were not willing participants in that arrangement, and they are here today to make that clear to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe importance of the lakes to Te Arawa cannot be underestimated. Perhaps the only way to illustrate that in contemporary times is to compare them to the importance that every Greek citizen places on the Parthenon, a Sherpa places on Mount Everest, and the indigenous people of Australia place on Ayers Rock. As indigenous peoples we all have our iconic landmarks with which we have a spiritual and an ancestral association, and for Te Arawa that association manifests itself in the lakes. The significance of this bill is that it ensures that the ownership of the lake beds returns to Te Arawa. As well as that, seats on the committee that manages the day-to-day affairs of the lakes will be set aside for Te Arawa representatives. As the previous speaker from the Green Party made very clear to the House, Te Arawa will have the opportunity to exercise their ownership rights over the lakes on that committee. They will have a legal voice at the table for the first time in many decades. The leverage of lake bed ownership and the property rights that flow from that mean they will be a very, very significant economic voice in Rotorua, and indeed Te Arawa wh\u0101nui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E By way of background comment, I say that for centuries the lakes provided a lifeline for Te Arawa. They were a food basket, a shelter, and a highway. Much blood and many tears have been spilt over time. From the hinterland to the shores of the lakes, the stories of a proud people are etched in every nook, every bay, every outcrop, every sandbank, and every rocky reef, even to the depths of the lakes. In some lakes, sadly, lie the k\u014Diwi of many of our t\u016Bpuna, whose lives were tragically lost as a result of the Tarawera eruption and of intertribal encounters. Many hap\u016B and iwi of Te Arawa have relied on, and cared for, the lakes over generations. Over time, the lakes have become important to the people of the Rotorua district and to the nation as a whole. The lakes are a jewel in the crown for the tourism industry in Te Arawa, and Te Arawa themselves have played a major part in its development. The return of the lake beds to Te Arawa embodies the meaning of the Crown, local government, and Te Arawa working together for the preservation of the lakes and the betterment of the nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe bill also contains an apology from the Crown to Te Arawa. The acknowledgment of the injustices suffered by Te Arawa is long overdue. The Crown failed to honour its commitments to them. I commend this Government for introducing a bill to this House that contains a formal Crown apology to Te Arawa, their t\u016Bpuna, and their descendants for the breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi acknowledged by the Crown. In its most traditional sense there is no word for \u201Csorry\u201D, particularly when we compare an apology in English with how we would do it in our own language. So what purpose does the apology serve? It is, of course, given for the benefit of the Crown, so that it can somehow wash its hands of how it treated an honourable and a noble people. It is penance or self-atonement. Ina r\u0101, kei te Kaihautu, kua puta te reo t\u0101pae ripenet\u0101 a te Karauna ki a Te Arawa m\u014D \u0101na h\u0113, m\u014D \u0101na hara ki a Te Arawa an\u014D, kia t\u016B w\u0101tea te Karauna kia rite te kukup\u0101, te harakore, kia m\u0101 te hukarere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[Madam Assistant Speaker, the Crown has made its penance to Te Arawa itself for its wrongdoings and injustices in the past to clear the way for an impartial settlement.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EIn my own language, I have put in a more appropriate way an apology from the Crown to Te Arawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding that, some extreme views in opposition to the proposal to return the lakes to Te Arawa have been expressed by some members of the Rotorua community\u2014and by the wider Bay of Plenty community. However, Te Arawa are here today. They have taken a lot of criticism during the negotiation process, but they are determined to see the settlement of this longstanding grievance and to move on. They are seeking justice, and I believe justice has been partially served here today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EBut I am sickened by the way that the media have given what I would call the red-necked communities of our country the opportunity to promote their vile agendas. Not only in this case but in many other cases, we have heard from claimant groups around the country about the issues they have had to deal with, and the complications they have had to confront, in relation to their claims. The media have chosen not to put their stories forward but instead to promote the views of those who have opposed them. That is a sad indictment on our communities and on our country. There is no grey area here. The Crown confiscated the lakes from Te Arawa. There is no grey area; it is quite clear. The confiscation was wrong in 1922, and the people charged with dispossessing Te Arawa of their lakes knew that, but it is my sincerest hope that Te Arawa accept the Crown\u2019s apology. It will be unreserved, and it will remove the deep-seated shame that some members of continuing Governments have had to bear over the decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI am saddened by the position that the elected member for Waiariki, Te Ururoa Flavell, has chosen to take in relation to this settlement. We know that those who criticise the settlement are ignorant, whether intentionally or otherwise, but they are a minority. In response to Gerry Brownlee\u2019s statements to this House, I say that the Hansard records will confirm that Te Arawa was forced into accepting an annuity in return for the loss of the lakes. The Government of the day presented Te Arawa with a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D deal. Even though they chose to take it, they were never willing participants in the transaction. Therefore, for them the deal was never full and final. Just a few years later, and to the credit of Te Arawa, they donated an entire annuity to the Government\u2019s war effort\u2014an effort that saw them lose many of their young men. The price of citizenship has been very high for Te Arawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EFull and final reparation can never be made to Te Arawa, yet they are here today in this House. They are prepared to let bygones be bygones, in an effort to move forward and to take current and future generations with them. The descendants, or the m\u014Drehu here today, bear witness to the writing of the final chapter of a book that will restore to them, perhaps, a sense of redemption at last. The bill acknowledges that Te Arawa have endured an arduous struggle in the pursuit of their claims for redress and compensation from the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI join with my colleague the Hon Mark Burton in commending the Te Arawa negotiators, whose commitment and passion have enabled us to reach this stage of the settlement process. I also congratulate and thank the representatives of the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board for their commitment to the process. I say that while this grievance passes into history, another Te Arawa icon will also pass into history\u2014that is, the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board. It will be renewed as the Te Arawa Lakes Trust, and that is a clear commitment to Te Arawa moving forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI want the general public to acknowledge the decades of missed opportunities that the dispossession of the lakes has brought to Te Arawa. They were forced to stand back and watch as others developed the lakes and prospered. That prosperity was founded largely upon Te Arawa\u2019s dispossession. This settlement is an important milestone for Te Arawa and for the Crown. The settlement redress will provide for Te Arawa the resources to assist in developing their economic and social well-being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E But I also want to reiterate that the settlement pertains only to Te Arawa\u2019s interest in the lakes. Other negotiations currently in the pipeline will see other historical claims of Te Arawa settled and come to an end. Te Arawa in the future will be a powerful economic force in Rotorua and in the Bay of Plenty. Indeed, like many groups who have entered into settlements, they will be an economic force in this country and be recognised for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003ESo, with that wave of your finger, Madam Assistant Speaker, I congratulate again the negotiators of Te Arawa and the people of Te Arawa who have come a very, very long way to witness this historic step in the settlement of their longstanding grievance. Hoi an\u014D, kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad06ae8047184f8dac232f792eb6bbb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad06ae8047184f8dac232f792eb6bbb0\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kai te Whare t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Te Arawa Waka, Te Arawa tangata, t\u0113na koutou katoa. Nau mai, haere mai e kawe nei te kaupapa nei ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare. Whakapiri mai. I \u014D koutou mate kia t\u016B honohono \u0101 t\u0101tou mate i t\u0113nei rangi, \u0101, haere ng\u0101 mate. \u0100, ko te mea nui kua tae pai mai koutou. Nau mai, haere mai r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Madam Assistant Speaker, and to those of you in the House. To the canoe and the people of Te Arawa, greetings to you all. Welcome to you who bring this matter into this House. Draw closer. In respect of your deaths that bond with our ones today, I say farewell the dead. And in respect of you, the main thing is that you have arrived here safely, so welcome, welcome indeed.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party stands today with a heavy heart. We honour the presence of Te Arawa here today and we think of those who are with them but are not physically present. We think of those who have passed on who were negotiating with the Crown over the future of the lakes some 80 years ago. We remember our t\u012Bpuna who secured Lake \u014Ckataina and the surrounding Ng\u0101ti Tarawhai lands as a scenic reserve in 1921. Let the record never erase from memory those who also passionately objected to the Te Arawa Lakes settlement negotiation of 1922. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ETe Arawa have been here before. They stood strong at H\u012Brangi to denounce the fiscal envelope of those days. Our hearts go to all the kuia and koroua who in telling their stories unearthed a lifetime of sorrow, the heart-wrenching stories that were gifted to the record of time. They have worked painstakingly for their people, agonising over hours of hearings and volumes of words for the benefit of the tribe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe know, with absolute certainty, that those who have travelled here today want to settle, as a mark of respect for so many of their people who have passed on without seeing this matter dealt with. Their member of Parliament, Te Ururoa Flavell, is today representing this Parliament at a gathering in Kenya. His heart aching for his people\u2014for their stories and their mamae. His presence is also very much here today and he will look forward to contributing to this debate at subsequent readings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EHe shared with us the decades of grief for the degradation and destruction of Te Arawa\u2019s taonga. Minister Burton today acknowledged the savage depletion of the fish life upon which Te Arawa relied. He talked of the senseless acts of prosecution of Te Arawa for fishing in their own moana. He talked of the holding back of survey maps and plans that would have enabled Te Arawa to prepare for their claim. He talked of the devastation of their wetlands, reducing everything to one tap in the village. But will this p\u016Btea pay for those things? That is why we are here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe know of Te Arawa\u2019s love and longing for the lands, for the lakes, and for the lives of their t\u012Bpuna; and of the offence against Te Arawa\u2019s tino rangatiratanga over the lakes and the usage of the resources of the lakes. In 1996 tangata whenua rejected unanimously the Crown\u2019s offer of a $1 billion fiscal envelope to settle all claims as a full and final settlement of historic grievances. All the marae of the motu did that. But as successive Governments came and went, the policy remained in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe settlement process started with a bang, but not much buck to show for it\u2014$170 million respectively for Tainui, for Ng\u0101i Tahu, and for the Sealord\u2019s fisheries. That $170 million became the standard for everybody else. It was a random figure with no rationale other than affordability. The House needs to recall that not one person has ever even suggested these settlements are anywhere near what a true and accurate response should have been. Indeed, Professor Margaret Mutu has suggested that the Tainui people had to accept .01 percent of the real value of their claim\u2014$170 million\u2014while the claim was estimated at $1,192 billion. For Ng\u0101i Tahu, the figure was 0.4 percent of the real value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EMore recently, redress amounts have been established, pitting iwi against iwi, hap\u016B against hap\u016B. Nowhere is this more apparent than amongst Te Arawa\u2014and it is sad\u2014where serious divisions have occurred between and amongst wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi throughout the confederation. The process is a recipe for division\u2014divide and rule and conquer. We have heard how some tribes are not mentioned in some of the three settlements, yet mentioned in others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe are also aware of the urgent inquiry currently before Judge Wickliffe, on behalf of Ng\u0101ti Whaoa, specifically for three of the 13 lakes enshrined in this legislation and for the 14th lake, which has been omitted from this bill. How can Government go to settlement when there are still outstanding issues with regard to lakes in front of the tribunal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E Ng\u0101ti Whaoa have told us that they were never represented by the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board in the legislation of 1922 or 1955. By this process, the people of Te Arawa are being forced to face three different settlements with three different governance and management bodies with three different sets of costs. The fisheries settlement, the kaihaut\u016B agreement in principle, and the lakes settlement deed are the objects of today\u2019s hui. With each new negotiation, the amount reduces, leaving a mere $2.7 million in cash for financial redress, and $7.3 million for annuity redress. Ko te p\u0101tai, is that all a glittering jewel in this nation\u2019s wealth is worth? The bill itself acknowledges this: \u201CIt is not possible to compensate Te Arawa fully for that loss\u201D. It is in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ETe Arawa Lakes Trust is a group formed from Environment Bay of Plenty and the Rotorua District Council, with just two places reserved for mana whenua Te Arawa? Where is the rangatiratanga in that? Mana, or control, over the lakes is thereby again subject to the whims of Government constructs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe matter of water has not even been mentioned or addressed. Nor is there sufficient recognition of the pollution and degradation of Te Arawa\u2019s taonga. We understand that the estimated amount required to remedy the contamination inflicted on their moana by successive local authorities and Government regimes totals over $200 million. Where are the resources to clean up the lakes? Will the next Budget make the appropriation to restore the lakes to their positive condition? I think not. The last Budget never even had the word \u201CM\u0101ori\u201D in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIt is for these reasons and more that the M\u0101ori Party will not vote on this Government bill. We will not vote against Te Arawa; we will not vote. There is not enough compensation. The process has divided Te Arawa, and it is all one-sided. We say to the people of Te Arawa that we respect their right to make decisions and respect the rangatiratanga of those who are gathered here today. We will not vote against them. But it is our sober task that we must never resile from a responsibility to bring to account the wrongful confiscation and theft of tangata whenua territories\u2014the crimes against our people. We will not forget. We of the M\u0101ori Party appeal to members of this House\u2014all of whom would want justice for themselves and theirs\u2014to consider whether this settlement is a just settlement, and whether their ancestors and descendants would see justice being played out today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWith our first opportunity to speak on Treaty settlements in this House, we in the M\u0101ori Party do not see this or any previous settlements as indications of the application of justice. Because of the seriousness and the breadth of our people\u2019s concerns made clear to us through our electorates, the M\u0101ori Party is considering a call for all Treaty settlements to be suspended until there has been a full review of the Treaty settlement process. Because of that we are writing to all hap\u016B, iwi, and claimant groups to ask them to consider some of the concerns that have been sent to us by the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E N\u0101 reira Te Arawa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou i puku kaha te k\u014Dkiri i t\u014D koutou tono ki te wh\u0101nako, ar\u0101, ki te Karauna kia hoki tika mai te mana me \u014Dna rawa ki a koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou i hoe mai i \u014D koutou waka i runga i ng\u0101 roimata o te aroha mai i ng\u0101 w\u0101 k\u0101inga tae noa ki te ana o te raiona. Ko t\u0113nei t\u016B, he t\u016B kia werohia te K\u0101wanatanga kia whakatika ai i ng\u0101 ker\u0113me katoa. Ko t\u0101 m\u0101tou e p\u014Duri nei, ko t\u0101 m\u0101tou m\u014Dhio i te mutunga ake, kei a r\u0101tou te k\u014Drero whakamutunga. Kei te k\u012B, ko \u0113nei, ko \u0113n\u0101 r\u0101nei ng\u0101 taonga ka whakahokia, \u0101, me ng\u0101 rawa hoki ka wh\u0101ngaihia atu ki a koutou. Na reira Te Arawa kei te tangi. Kei te tangi matou. M\u0101tou nga tonotono a te iwi. M\u0101tou ng\u0101 mema a te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. M\u0101tou ng\u0101 uri o Te Arawa, o Kahungunu, o Ng\u0101puhi, o te Whanga-nui-a-Tara nei r\u0101. N\u014D reira huri noa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Kei raro Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[And so greetings to you, Te Arawa. Greetings to you who worked strenuously to initiate your claim to the thief, the Crown, for the return of the authority and its properties to you directly. Greetings to you who paddled your canoes from your homes to the lions\u2019 den here with tears of love. This stance of mine is to challenge the Government to rectify all claims. What saddens us greatly is that at the end of it all, they have the final say. We over here are saying: are those taonga really the ones that will be returned to you and the benefits that will be fed to you? And so, Te Arawa, we are grieving. We the representatives of the people, of the M\u0101ori Party, and as descendants of Te Arawa, Kahungunu, Ng\u0101puhi, and of Wellington here, are mourning. And so, greetings to you all throughout the House. I end here, Madam Assistant Speaker.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022bab40f45433e46e5bd1346ecd1eaa434\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bab40f45433e46e5bd1346ecd1eaa434\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future): \u003C/span\u003EI stand on behalf of United Future to speak to the first reading of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill. Today, for Te Arawa, we start the final legislative journey of work that I believe began in 1987 when the claim was lodged with the Waitangi Tribunal. Ten years later the lakes claim was separated out from other aspects of the claim, and 3 years later the terms of the negotiations were signed off. They were signed off again a couple of years later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI would like to welcome those who have come from Te Arawa to witness the beginning of this legislative journey. I am from Whakat\u0101ne, and I am someone who has regularly enjoyed the Te Arawa lakes on family holidays, particularly Rotom\u0101 and Rotorua, and I have also enjoyed being part of outdoor education programmes with school children and youth groups on the shores of \u014Ckataina. I also understand the importance of some sacred sites that are scattered around the shores of \u014Ckataina. I recently enjoyed the opening of an Environment Bay of Plenty initiative at Lake Rerewhakaaitu, and I came to appreciate watching what had happened there and realised the importance of guardianship of these wonderful treasures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI am taking only a brief call on this bill. United Future does not have a representative on the select committee that will be considering this bill. We will be relying heavily on the commentary from the committee to guide our ongoing support. We do support the Waitangi settlement process; however, we believe that resourcing could easily be stepped up to avoid hap\u016B and iwi having to wait unreasonable lengths of time for settlements to be reached.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E I think it is important\u2014as I finish\u2014that we remember those who have been part of this journey, but who have not lived long enough to see this day arrive. We must honour the work they have done, and we congratulate those who have continued to carry the baton on this important project. I thank those people for their attendance here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1e783d88a7b40dbac51fa0b2091c301\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1e783d88a7b40dbac51fa0b2091c301\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou, te wh\u0101nau o Te Arawa. It is wonderful to have Te Arawa here today to share this occasion with us. As the member for Rotorua, I say that these are truly memorable moments in our historical journey together. As a contemporary P\u0101keh\u0101 player in the unique environment of Rotorua, I am proud to follow on from the Hon Paul East, who showed an understanding of the Treaty settlement process. This process has moved smoothly, and I remember attending a meeting that started the process for me. Bishop Manu Bennett was there, helping us understand the historical account, with Anaru Rangiheuea, former Mayor Grahame Hall, Trevor Maxwell, Mita Ririnui, and Don Stafford telling our wonderful story and putting it right for the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EMargaret Wilson was at that historic meeting, and that is where we began putting this settlement back on track. I would like to acknowledge Margaret Wilson for the work she did. I also acknowledge the leadership of the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board. It has been very staunch through this process, patient, and long-suffering, and it has had to put up with some misunderstandings in our own community at home about what this settlement was trying to achieve. I congratulate the leadership of the Rotorua District Council\u2014and Mayor Kevin Winters is with us today. He is also supported by Trevor Maxwell and Mauriora Kingi. It is just fantastic to see these people coming with our waka down here to our Whare today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe P\u0101keh\u0101 in the Rotorua community only ever sought access to the waters of iconic lakes, and if they were confident of the leadership of Rotorua to make sure that that access was enshrined, they went away and let the negotiators get on with the process. That mandated leadership of the Rotorua District Council working with the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board gave our people confidence that this process was moving along, and that was what was required. I thank Mark Burton for picking this bill up now, and I thank this Government for reprioritising the Treaty settlement process, because this settlement certainly needed to get on track as a high priority. I say, \u201CWell done!\u201D, to my colleague Mita Ririnui for holding the negotiation process together, holding a candle under the process, and keeping it going in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOne of the things I enjoyed seeing was our kaum\u0101tua of Te Arawa working with our younger negotiators\u2014and David Tapsell is up in the gallery today. He is only one of the negotiators, but his father, Sir Peter Tapsell, would be proud of him to know that he is helping us with his skills to work on this negotiated settlement. We know our lakes are iconic. In the words of Bishop Manu Bennett\u2014and Auntie Kaa is up in the gallery today\u2014he would never bless objects without the people present understanding their responsibility with regard to them, and we are all here today. We are two people, walking one pathway, t\u0101tou, t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00227389a4885b8c412a93745a29995a21b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227389a4885b8c412a93745a29995a21b1\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I begin my speech this afternoon by acknowledging the great and noble confederation of iwi and hap\u016B of Te Arawa and to welcome their representatives to our House. I also acknowledge the presence of their advisers, including my good friends and former colleagues Paul Radich and Jessica Hodgson, who are now lawyers in Izard Weston. They spent many hours in the period leading up to the deed of settlement being signed working with David Tapsell and others in Te Arawa to ensure that the deed of settlement could be signed on 18 December 2004. I also acknowledge my old friend David Tapsell, with whom I worked in two law firms, most recently at Bell Gully, and I acknowledge his father, Peter Tapsell, who, as we all know, was a great member of this House and a very wise and just Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESettlements between the Crown and iwi can be great occasions in the life of our country. I said in my maiden speech that, for me, 21 November 1997 was the proudest moment of my legal career when, as one of the team who had worked for Ng\u0101i Tahu for many years against the Crown, I went to Kaik\u014Dura and witnessed Sir T\u012Bpene O\u2019Regan and the former Prime Minister Jim Bolger sign the deed of settlement. Because of the excellent work done by Georgina te Heuheu and others in this House in 1998, the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act was passed towards the end of that year. So Treaty settlements can be a great occasion, as I have said, in the life of the country. To quote the words of Isaiah, they can undo many of the heavy burdens of the past and enable our peoples to look to the future with confidence and optimism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo, as a legislator, it is with a very heavy heart that I am required to stand in this House today and express my grave concerns about this legislation, because, quite frankly, I think Te Arawa have been let down. I particularly want to focus on clauses 7 and 9 of the bill to illustrate just what I am talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe first point is that I do not believe that acknowledgments and apologies should be contained in legislation. One of the reasons for that is illustrated by a member\u2019s bill under the name of one of the New Zealand First members\u2014and I think it is Mr Peters himself\u2014which seeks to delete all references to the Treaty, and references to the principles of the Treaty, from legislation. So if that bill was passed, we should think of what that would do to clauses 7 and 9 of this legislation. The best way of dealing with apologies is to have them contained in deeds as separate documents, but not to incorporate them in legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E The second point\u2014and it is a fundamental point, and time and time again it has been said to members of this House, and I will say it again\u2014is that this legislation contains, in clauses 7 and 9, vague and formulaic references to the Treaty, which, as I said, I believe are insulting and have the same tone of sincerity as MPs withdrawing and apologising in this House. Let me refer to subclause (2) of clause 7. There the Crown acknowledges various things, and says that it was in breach of the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles. But what principles? Subclause (4) of clause 7 acknowledges\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228109a6ec99a84cc38d8a6bb8453f5a38\u0022\u003EHon Mita Ririnui\u003C/span\u003E: Protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f066e939064d90b3e499126b0b6af2\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I will come to that\u2014that it failed to review the annuity paid to Te Arawa as part of its 1992 agreement as a result of inflation, and was a breach of the Treaty and its principles. If it is active protection we are talking about, why is that not explicitly stated in the bill? Then there is clause 9, which states: \u201CThe Crown profoundly regrets and unreservedly apologises to Te Arawa for the breaches of te Tiriti o Waitangi (the Treaty of Waitangi) and its principles acknowledged above.\u201D What does that mean? Select committees cannot amend apologies; apologies come from the Crown. This bill should be withdrawn by the Government and tidied up because these are fundamental errors. If one is going to refer to principles of the Treaty, one should state exactly which principles one is referring to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIn general terms there are about nine key or central principles that have been extracted over the years from various cases and reports of the Waitangi Tribunal. The first is that the Crown has an obligation to actively protect M\u0101ori interests. One of the Labour members interjected and said: \u201COh that\u2019s what this is about.\u201D Well, the legislation should say so. The second one is that Crown and M\u0101ori have mutual obligations to act reasonably and in good faith. The third one is that the Treaty has to be adapted to modern, rapidly changing circumstances. The fourth one is that there is a principle of mutual benefit that should be applied. The fifth is that the Treaty has a basic object of two peoples living together in one country, and this concept lays the foundation for the principle of partnership. The sixth is that the Crown has guaranteed rangatiratanga to all iwi, and that includes the implicit guarantee that the Crown would not allow one iwi an unfair advantage over another. The seventh is that the Crown has an obligation to recognise rangatiratanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere is an eighth principle, and it has not been picked up in many of the commentaries over the years, but it arises out of a case concerning the Ng\u0101i Tahu M\u0101ori Trust Board and the Department of Conservation\u2014a case I was involved in for Whale Watch Kaik\u014Dura. We succeeded in persuading the Crown that section 4 of the Conservation Act 1987 meant that Ng\u0101i Tahu should have a reasonable degree of preference when it came to the operation of Whale Watch Kaik\u014Dura vis-\u00E0-vis others who might seek to enter that particular operation off Kaikoura. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo it is not too hard to spell out what exactly one is talking about when one refers to the principles of the Treaty. This is yet another example of lazy drafting and poor workmanship by this Government. And it is worse than that, as I said, because of the sloppiness of it, and because of the inadequacy of it\u2014it has all the hallmarks of insincerity, which only the Crown is capable of showing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EMy next point refers to what the Law Commission said in its publication M\u0101ori Custom and Values in New Zealand Law. It referred to a submission that the Law Commission had made to the Health Committee on the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Bill 2000, which urged Parliament, as far as possible, to provide the courts with guidance as to its precise intention when referring to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi in legislation. Of course, there the Law Commission was referring to clauses such as section 4 of the Conservation Act or section 9 of the State-Owned Enterprises Act. But I think the same point needs to be made if the Crown is going to include Treaty of Waitangi references in legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI really do believe these are quite fundamental points I have endeavoured to raise in relation to acknowledgments and apologies contained in this legislation. I do not believe they are capable of being cured by a select committee; the select committee cannot tinker with apologies. The proper thing for the Crown to do is to withdraw this legislation and do a better job, because I think the people of Te Arawa deserve better than this very B grade effort. I also think these concerns I have raised echo what my friend Dr Pita Sharples has said\u2014that given all these problems with the Treaty settlement process it certainly would not hurt to take stock and see where we are going, because this is a poor effort and these good people have travelled a long way for not very much at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002241c6d921cfc44265a68ac08cbf5bdd40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241c6d921cfc44265a68ac08cbf5bdd40\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will be speaking in M\u0101ori, and I will do my own translation. Ki a te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. E \u014Dku kaum\u0101tua, koutou kua puta mai nei mai i \u0113r\u0101 h\u0101rotoroto o t\u0101tou i roto i te rohe o Waiariki, t\u0113nei ahau te whakamihi atu ki a koutou nau mai, piki mai, kake mai, haere mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[To the House, greetings to us all. To my elders, those of you who have appeared here from those lakes of ours in the Waiariki region, I extend greetings to you, welcome, welcome aboard, welcome.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI welcome the elders and leaders of the Arawa confederation who have come to Parliament today. Ahau e t\u016B ana ki te tautoko i ng\u0101 mahi kua horahia, i ng\u0101 kupu kua whakaarongia i roto i te pire, ka whakatakotongia i t\u0113nei r\u0101. Mehemea e kite ana \u0113tahi w\u0101hanga k\u0101hore e rite tonu ana ki \u014D koutou whakaaro, he aha oti te raruraru kia wh\u0101rikitia ki konei, tahi ka haria ki te Komiti Uiui hei kon\u0101 koutou whakapuaki i \u014D koutou whakaaro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[I stand to support what has been stated and outlined in the bill presented today. If there are parts that differ from one\u2019s point of view, no harm is done by expressing them here and having them referred to the committee for further debate.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI stand to support the first reading of this bill. I note that it will be referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, where there will be an opportunity for people to make further submissions and, indeed, refinements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EKa nui taku p\u014Duri ki te rongo atu i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e horahia ana i roto i t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare i t\u0113nei r\u0101. Ahau nei, mehemea ko te kaupapa nei kua oti i a koutou, ng\u0101 kaik\u014Drero, i whakaritea hei kawe i nga reo o Te Arawa, i waenga tonu i a koutou me ng\u0101 m\u0101ngai o te Karauna, me waiho ko te whakamutunga, me te hanganga o t\u0113nei kaupapa i waenga tonu i a kourua, n\u0101hea an\u014D. Ko te Karauna me ng\u0101 kaik\u014Drero o roto i Te Arawa. Me kaua t\u0113tahi atu te poka noa ki te whakawehewehe i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero waenga tonu i a kourua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI also note that others are unwilling to support the progress of this bill. I think that is a shame. It overlooks the fact that there has been a set of discussions\u2014a negotiation between nominated speakers of the Arawa people and representatives of the Crown. It is not fitting that any member of this House should seek to disturb, undermine, or fracture that which belongs between those two Treaty partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAhau e whakamihi ana hoki ki a koutou. Ko te t\u0101moko o Te Arawa ka whakapumautia ki te takere o ng\u0101 h\u0101rotoroto e k\u014Drerongia ake nei. Ko wai ka hua, ko wai ka tohu a e ng\u0101 r\u0101 e takoto tata ake nei. E hia ranei te p\u016Btea, p\u0113hea ana r\u0101nei te whakahaere o ng\u0101 taonga nei. Otir\u0101, ko te taonga motuhake kua taka ki roto i te kapu o \u014D koutou ringaringa, hei whiriwhiri, hei whakahaere i \u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero. Kaua rawa ko m\u0101tou ng\u0101 mema o te Whare P\u0101remata \u0113ngari, me whakawhiwhi atu ki a koutou ng\u0101 uri o \u014D t\u0101tou t\u016Bpuna n\u014D r\u0101tou \u0113r\u0101 taonga i te tuatahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[I congratulate you once again. The insignia of the Arawa people will be indelibly laid upon the beds of the lakes mentioned. Who will benefit, or where will it lead to in future? What will the revenue be, how will these treasures be administered, especially the one that has come into your hands? Who will determine and run those discussions? Those determinations are for you the descendants of our ancestors who owned the treasures in the first place. It is not for us members of Parliament House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAlthough it may be said and complained that a better line of revenue could have been associated with the transfer of the lakes, the moko of the Arawa people will be indelibly laid upon the beds of the lakes. Te Arawa will have the opportunity to ensure that their vision and aspirations regarding the development and usage of the lakes rest firmly with them, and not with a single member of this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EKoia t\u0101ku e te Arawa e tautoko ana, me te m\u014Dhio ko te katoa o ng\u0101 t\u016Bmanako e kore rawa e ea. Otir\u0101, ko koutou, ko ahau, ko wai atu r\u0101nei kei t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0113anga m\u0101 r\u0101tou e kapo i te mea taea e r\u0101tou. Ko wai r\u0101nei kua hua, ko wai ranei ka tohu, hei roto i te w\u0101 o \u014D t\u0101tou mokopuna, te roanga atu o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Therefore Te Arawa, I support this bill, knowing that all that you had hoped for will not be fulfilled. Indeed it is for you, for me, for whoever else, or for that generation to seize upon what is possible for them. Who will benefit, or where it will lead to in the future, is in the hands of our grandchildren.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ETherefore, I stand and support this bill. Who can tell how matters will finally end up in the days of our mokopuna and our uri? Each generation must make a decision and seize upon that which it believes is the best that can be achieved at a given point in time. Tautoko ana au i te pire. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[I support the bill. Greetings to us all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002222b09feacca349ab941c2c1cc80e4bf0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000416\u0022\u003EHaka\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6c3880063094fb3afc1ddbc87bc4c0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6c3880063094fb3afc1ddbc87bc4c0c\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be considered by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and that the Committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 192 and 195(1)(b) and (c), and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 4 August 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f11294b4b23944b2a9b5220a73d08d5f\u0022\u003ELaw Reform (Epidemic Preparedness) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f845ebd0b1814b599d12a6ab9e4b8d8b\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1da7c327c1e4ac8b670806a72f031ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1da7c327c1e4ac8b670806a72f031ba\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building Issues)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: I move, That the Law Reform (Epidemic Preparedness) Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Government Administration Committee. I also intend to instruct that the committee presents its report to the House on or before 31 July 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis bill has been prepared as part of the work undertaken by this Government on developing the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Action Plan. The principal purpose of the bill is to ensure that adequate statutory powers are available to the Crown to properly respond to and manage a major public health emergency, such as the threat or actual outbreak of a highly infectious disease, whether occurring in New Zealand or overseas. The primary amendments in the bill are to the Health Act. The amendments clarify, modernise, and, where necessary, close gaps in the law relating to public health emergencies and quarantine powers. The current provisions are old and were made in the days when ship travel was the most common way in which people arrived in New Zealand. The amendments will ensure that the Act is more responsive to current epidemic and pandemic influenza scenarios. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn particular, the bill adds pandemic influenza to the list of quarantinable diseases contained in the Health Act. This will ensure that quarantine powers can be exercised in relation to pandemic influenza as well as the existing quarantinable diseases of typhoid, yellow fever, and plague. The bill provides an Order in Council mechanism to quickly add new highly infectious diseases to the list, should they emerge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill modernises the quarantine provisions for aircraft arrivals, as current provisions focus more on ship arrivals. It modernises the language used in the emergency power provisions in the Health Act from the time when, for example, billiard halls and reading rooms were common places where the public would gather. It relaxes emergency provisions to close public places, so they may remain open if certain protective and preventive measures are put in place. That could mean, for example, that essential services such as supermarkets can remain open, hence preventing pandemonium. The bill provides for the examination and testing of people arriving in New Zealand who are liable to quarantine as part of triaging based on risk. It updates medical surveillance provisions for people who may be at risk of having or spreading a quarantinable disease, and provides for surveillance at large. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill updates emergency requisition powers, such as widening the use of premises to accommodate sick people if hospitals are overflowing. Further it provides for the development and implementation of a policy to prioritise scarce medical supplies, such as antivirals and any future vaccines, in an emergency and to protect health workers and others following the policy. It gives the New Zealand Police enforcement powers to assist statutory medical officers of health in the exercise of their emergency powers, in the unlikely event of resistance. Further it enables statutory medical officers of health to redirect aircraft that have landed in New Zealand to another place in New Zealand if that is considered necessary in order to deal with a disease scenario more effectively. It adds a provision to relax certain statutory requirements and restrictions on enactments administered by the Ministry of Health, if authorised by an epidemic notice issued by the Prime Minister. For example, it will provide the ability to allow competent people to administer vaccinations who may not currently work in a scope of practice that allows them to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends a number of other enactments dealing with matters that may be disrupted by, or may need to deal specifically with, the consequences of an epidemic. These amendments can be triggered only if an epidemic notice is in force. They include the following: allowing nurses to sign death certificates in certain circumstances if doctors are in short supply; allowing employers to reduce the notice period when requiring employees to take annual leave; allowing overseas people to stay longer in New Zealand if they cannot return to their own countries; provisions to manage parole, community service, home detention, and remand issues; the ability to provide reasonable and necessary relief from compliance with statutory duties where impossible or impracticable to comply; and some minor administrative amendments relating to student loans, tax, and social security emergency payments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESome of the provisions in the bill do require a lesser priority on individual rights than is appropriate in times of non-emergency. That is justified by the need to ensure that members of the community in general are protected from those who may be suffering from a highly infectious disease but who may not necessarily comply voluntarily with normal disease control mechanisms. I am sure everyone in Parliament agrees that New Zealanders should, where reasonably possible, be protected from unnecessary infection by a lethal pandemic disease and that we must collectively ensure this protection. The Government would wish to see the bill enacted by August 2006, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00222daea63946e64402acb3c0a3301428d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222daea63946e64402acb3c0a3301428d2\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party in Opposition will support the progress of the bill to the Government Administration Committee. I wonder whether the Minister Clayton Cosgrove indicated a time frame for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022984e5c83b0a74f96915b48791c2abe25\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220118efb8826c46448f174b0cecae9bd4\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: We are also prepared to support that, on the understanding that if extra time is needed, then the Minister and the Business Committee will facilitate that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EProtecting human health is at the crux of New Zealand\u2019s pandemic preparedness. If we fail to protect our people\u2019s health, we are also likely to fail in our secondary goals of maintaining social cohesion and seeking to mitigate the economic and social consequences of the pandemic. When pandemic strains emerge, they sweep through communities and nations with frightening velocity. The three pandemics we saw in the past century circled the globe, and in many communities they had spread through the human population within months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe concentrated mortality of a pandemic can be shocking. The 1918 pandemic, for example, killed more people in 6 months than who died in the last 25 years from AIDS, and more than were killed in World War I. So the effects of a pandemic are indeed very serious for our country. The primary strategy of the Government and of Parliament has to be to protect human health by seeking to prevent the emergence of any strain of pandemic, and, if possible, to contain any human outbreak at its source, if that emergence does occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe National Party has taken a particular interest in pandemic planning in New Zealand since it identified that the Government had prepared a priority list for Tamiflu that the Minister of Health knew nothing about\u2014other than the fact that he was on it. I think we have demonstrated in the last few months the perfect role of a vigorous and informed Opposition party. It has been National\u2019s raising various issues in pandemic planning that has basically forced the Government\u2019s hand, and actually got it to a position where the Minister of Health said on television that he lies awake at night worried about the pandemic. I suspect that it might be Tony Ryall\u2019s questions that keep him awake at night. The Opposition has raised the issues in pandemic planning, and we have highlighted the inefficiencies and ineffectualness of the Government\u2019s early responses, and the Government has responded to the agenda we have set. But, today, I also want to identify to the Government the new areas that its work must now move on to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E In the last 24 hours President Bush unveiled a $7.1 billion plan to prepare for a flu pandemic in the United States. It involves improving vaccines, stockpiling antiviral drugs, and changing and enforcing rules involving the United States. That is an investment that New Zealand should welcome. The President is investing $2.8 billion in what he calls a \u201Ccrash program\u201D to accelerate the development of new technology to speed up vaccine makers\u2019 ability to produce enough vaccine to protect people in that country. The benefit of that investment will be felt here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efe77f0ee79e4227a968611a91d21cf4\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Vote for President Bush!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280abbcdd7f084de095222503d945a8d3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: We might have to get Judith Collins to come and deal with that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EIt is vital to recognise that protecting human health during a pandemic will require a number of things. It will require strong domestic and international surveillance, good identification testing, the rapid development and production of health interventions, targeted use of antivirals, community infection control measures, effective understanding of risk reduction strategies, and the full involvement of the public and private sectors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe United States\u2019 pandemic plan, which was released in the last 24 hours, addressed the most gaping hole in this Government\u2019s pandemic preparedness. From the very beginning I have asked the Government what the plan is to get medical treatment to people who are sick in their homes. The Health Committee asked the Government the same question, because that is where most people will be during a pandemic. Most people will be at home. President Bush\u2019s pandemic plan\u2014the American strategy\u2014basically addressed that issue. We have not done so in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Americans are saying: \u201CGiven that most persons with pandemic influenza will experience typical influenza symptoms, most persons who seek care can be managed appropriately by [non-hospital] providers using a home-based approach. Appropriate management of \u2026 pandemic influenza cases may reduce the risk of progression to severe disease and thereby reduce demand for inpatient care. A system of effective home-based care would decrease the burden on health care providers and hospitals and lessen exposure of unaffected persons to persons with influenza. Telephone call centers should be established or augmented within affected communities to provide advice on whether to stay home or to seek care.\u201D This is the important bit: \u201CHome health care providers and organizations can provide follow-up for those who are managed at home, decreasing potential exposure of the public to persons who are ill and may transmit infection.\u201D So clear thinking is going on in other countries about how to deal with a problem that this Government has not yet dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThere are a number of areas that the Government still has to deal with. Many of those areas are the consequences that ordinary people will be confronted with. What happens if someone defaults on his or her contractual obligations because he or she is sick with bird flu? What happens if someone cannot go to work or earn income because that person has bird flu, and cannot meet his or her mortgage payments? The Government has not talked about how to deal with those consequences. What happens if people cannot meet their legal payment requirements because their bank is closed due to the pandemic? What will happen then? There has been no thinking on that at all here. The Government has provided some changes in this legislation to make it easier to provide special-needs grants to people who are affected by a pandemic, but how will we get money to volunteers who might need to go and buy food for people who are sick at home? None of that is covered in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EBut what is covered in this legislation\u2014and we should spend some time talking about it\u2014is the fact that one of the biggest risks to the community will be in the area of law and order. There is potential for considerable disorder in a number of situations. For example, hospital facilities may be overwhelmed by those seeking care and treatment for their family members, and people may vie for limited doses of vaccines and antivirals. There may be difficulties due to disruption of the provision of basic necessities like food, and to individuals attempting to leave areas where outbreaks have occurred. I suspect that during a pandemic the biggest crisis the Government will face will be one of public disorder, because if people start fighting to get into hospitals, to get limited food left in supermarkets, or to get out of quarantine zones, then we will very quickly be on a road to anarchy and disorder in our communities. That is why it is so important that communities engage in pandemic planning, so that people are aware of what their responsibilities will be to themselves, their families, and others. That is one of the very real points that the National Party has been making from day one in its efforts to get the Government to focus on the important issues involved in pandemic planning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI want the Government to know that we will be asking questions in the select committee about what it is doing about, particularly, the economic consequences to families. After the Hawke\u2019s Bay earthquake, far-reaching regulations were passed to allow authorities to deal with all the economic issues. Regulations have been used\u2014they were used in that situation\u2014and they allowed authorities and agents of the State to deal with the breakdown of contractual arrangements. The Government should be dealing with that. I have raised this issue with the Prime Minister and the Minister of Health; they came back and said they would have to talk to the banks. That work should have been going on months ago, because contractual arrangements and the breakdown of people\u2019s income will be fundamental. That is the biggest gap in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00222016bc2e656d4ab2abaa799569c719e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222016bc2e656d4ab2abaa799569c719e4\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the introduction of the Law Reform (Epidemic Preparedness) Bill. It is about leadership, and it is about preparedness. If the law were the only vehicle available, then some of the previous speaker\u2019s comments might be valid. But it is not the only vehicle available to prepare for a pandemic in this country. Other means and other plans are well advanced, and this legislation is but one part of that planning. It is a necessary part, but it is not the only thing that is available. So if the previous speaker has further suggestions to make about what appear to be gaps in the planning for a pandemic, then I suggest he looks beyond simply this one mechanism and contributes constructively to the whole planning process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn the event of a bird flu or of any other pandemic or epidemic we need to be careful, we need to be responsible, and we need to be modern about our responses. This bill is all of those things; it is careful, responsible, and modern. It is about being ready to deal with some of the most serious social and economic challenges this country would have faced in over a generation, as the Minister of Health has said today. It provides not only for a flu epidemic but for future epidemics of any kind, by amending the 50-year-old Health Act and updating other legislation, such as the Parole Act and the Immigration Act. It also introduces some new powers that are only appropriate given the changes in society since the 1956 Health Act. I refer particularly to the provisions, around measures such as welfare payments and automatic visa extensions to any visitors or tourists who may be trapped in New Zealand, that provide for the restriction of face-to-face contact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe key point in this legislation is the protection of the people of New Zealand. We need to balance an infected person\u2019s right to freedom with the rights of an uninfected person to be protected and not to become infected. The powers given to the police in this bill may appear unusual, but it is important to remember two things. One is that the circumstances will be extreme, and the second is that the additional powers are time limited. The police will have the power to detain people for medical tests and for treatment. They will have powers to assist medical officers of health and health protection officers in the carrying out of their duties, and in the protection of the public and the restriction of any further spread of infection. But it is important to note that the notice of epidemic expires on the day 3 months after its commencement. It can be renewed, but it has a time-limited application. That should give some comfort to those who may consider that they have concerns about the increased powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Government has said it invites submissions on the bill. It is open to all constructive suggestions about how the bill can be improved and how additional security and preparedness can be advanced. We welcome any constructive suggestions in that regard. This legislation is about balance. It is about responsible government, and it is about being prepared for something that we hope may never happen, but that statistically the chances of it occurring are high. It is also a chance for all parties in this House to participate in the protection and care of New Zealanders. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u002243ea6cde42cd45e88929a659c6453cfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243ea6cde42cd45e88929a659c6453cfd\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E In the course of this debate we have been privileged to hear from the Hon Tony Ryall in a hard-hitting, careful, and well-constructed speech on behalf of the National Party. He indicated in his comments just some of the issues that will arise as the Law Reform (Epidemic Preparedness) Bill is considered by the Government Administration Committee. There are a number of significant issues. I would like to start from a quite different basis and talk about the experience for New Zealanders, in very practical terms, in 1918 when we were hit by a pandemic flu epidemic. Pestilence has not been one of New Zealand\u2019s besetting problems. Even in the earliest days of settlement, when preventive and medical services were very limited, the salubrious climate, and also the austere living conditions, were guarantees of a reasonable standard of physical health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThere were, of course, outbreaks between 1910 and 1920. The incidence of smallpox warranted preventive measures on a national scale. Similar widespread immunisation and precautionary methods were found necessary in respect of diphtheria. Infantile paralysis\u2014or as it later came to be called, poliomyelitis\u2014was also responsible for varying death rolls. From the 1920s onwards, it developed on occasion to the point where restrictions on school attendance and public assembly were necessary. However, the overall death roll was not high by epidemic standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EAll of that changed in 1918 when two waves of influenza spread across the country, the first being followed by a virile wave that swept through the country from October through to December in that year. Everyone was personally affected in one way or another, and special restrictive measures were imposed as the death rate rose sharply. People became depressed. It was not just a matter of months but, rather, years before the adverse effects of the epidemic were overcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EMany people, in a way that might be appropriate for Mr Hughes on occasions, were treated for the flu by being wrapped in cotton wadding and flannel. At the time, there was a lot of discussion and disagreement about the correct way to treat influenza patients. Families were left isolated in their houses for days, only collecting bread and milk after it had been delivered, and people became too afraid to visit others, for fear of catching the disease. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe disease was in fact carried from the sick soldiers and crew returning home from World War I on the steamship Niagara, which arrived in Auckland on 12 October. By the middle of November, the influenza epidemic in Auckland had peaked, with Auckland having approximately 2,000 deaths alone. So it started in Auckland and it then spread rapidly south, causing an alarming death rate of 1,860 people throughout the country in only 8 weeks. By the 13th week it had begun to decline. The total number of deaths from the disease or its complications was believed to be more than 6,500 people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThere were particular challenges in Auckland. On 31 October the Mayor of Auckland, Sir James Gunson, held a special meeting in the council chambers to form a committee to take appropriate action to help sufferers, and also to cope with the epidemic. [Interruption] I can tell Mr Hughes that the city was divided into 22 blocks, with each doctor being allocated a special area, and six temporary hospitals were set up in schools and halls. Houses, hotels, and boarding houses assumed the aspect of hospitals as so many of the guests and members of staff were affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI speak of these things because if a pandemic does come, these are the sorts of situations that our citizens and our residents will have to confront and deal with. There were particular problems in dealing with the dead, and that is an issue that I will come to in a moment when I look at specific provisions in the bill before us. But in the result, with a huge pile up of corpses in the Auckland Domain, an order was made requiring all bodies of persons who had died from influenza or its complications to be buried, and special trains were provided from that place of death to the Waikumete Cemetery for burial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIt is all very well, and it is appropriate, that we support this bill going to a select committee, but we need to realise that all it does is construct the statutory frameworks for dealing with a limited number of situations, and there have to be sitting behind this statutory work the physical measures that need to be taken to engage in pandemic planning and the implementation of remedial work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ESo what does this legislation do? Well, it makes pandemic influenza a quarantinable disease. It enables quarantine powers at the border, it clarifies the emergency powers available to medical officers of health, it provides powers for the New Zealand police to assist medical officers of health, and it supports action to prevent or manage a health emergency. I am not myself convinced that this epidemic notice technique will actually be very satisfactory, but that, as the bill describes, is a \u201Ctrigger provision\u201D, and it enables the Prime Minister to issue a Gazette notice declaring that she\u2014it will be \u201Che\u201D by then\u2014is satisfied that the effects of the outbreak of an infectious disease are likely to disrupt essential governmental and business activity in New Zealand. The Gazette notice then triggers a range of possible actions. However, just on the face of it, they seem to me to be quite limited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe Resource Management Act will be amended so that resource consent is not necessary to establish community treatment centres, mass graves, and so on for 24 months if there is an epidemic. Other Acts will be amended to provide for temporary relief from use-of-money interest and penalties for taxpayers, and the relaxation of immigration provisions, parole provisions, probation conditions, and then the relaxation of benefit provisions and the providing of emergency benefits for people who would not usually be entitled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EA further plan is to amend the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act so that doctors and appropriately qualified nurses can issue death certificates without having necessarily attended the person before death. [Interruption] The clapping by Darren Hughes on the other side of the Chamber reminds me of the strength of the proposition I initially advanced that there are in this community, as there were in 1918, a number of people who might well be treated by being wrapped in cotton wadding and flannel. It seems to me that Mr Hughes would certainly lend himself to such a treatment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EAs we look around the world we see in what is going on in countries like Viet Nam the high probability that this pandemic might break out in a country like that, despite the very best efforts by authorities in particular countries. For example, in Viet Nam in the Ninh Binh province a mass vaccination programme has been initiated by the Viet Namese Government. It has been a huge project staffed by 80,000 workers, and I understand that by January 2006 more than 240 million poultry had been inoculated against bird flu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E It seems, for the present, that that has worked, because in January the agricultural ministry in Viet Nam declared that the country had contained bird flu, with no more outbreaks reported in the previous 3 weeks in the 21 cities previously affected. I instance Viet Nam, because the risk of bird flu transferring to humans will continue there for many years. The country has a bird population of 84 million, and those birds, in small flocks, are located in backyards, with people living in close proximity. It is the perfect incubator for the H5N1 virus to mutate into one easily transmissible between humans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a619896c690d43e29a7f047f0de90786\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a619896c690d43e29a7f047f0de90786\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the Law Reform (Epidemic Preparedness) Bill going to the Government Administration Committee. There is no doubt that in the event of an epidemic\u2014whether it be bird flu, some other fatal influenza, or another disease we heard about from the previous speaker, Dr Richard Worth\u2014the population at large will be looking to the Government for a speedy response and leadership for the country. They will also look for some guidance and assurance that a crisis of that kind will be managed as best as it is possible to be managed. We must commend the Government for its actions in updating this legislation in a timely manner\u2014better before the event than after the event. This bill is all about managing a crisis, from imposing quarantine powers at borders to clarifying the emergency powers available to the medical officers of health and the police, and managing a whole range of other matters that may be disruptive, or may be needed to deal with the specific consequences of an epidemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt is not that a bird flu pandemic could not become a reality; a mutation in the virus could lead to a human epidemic. Statistics suggest that if that mutation were to continue with a high fatality rate\u2014apparently 30 to 50 percent among people known to have contracted the infection\u2014then the results would be disastrous, and we would need the legislation as outlined by Dr Richard Worth. Fortunately, at this stage, the chances of that occurring seem to be low. However, medical researchers say that an epidemic is always on the cards, as are major volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, or earthquakes. An influenza epidemic occurred in 1918, and there will almost certainly be another one in the future. Wise people always learn from the lessons of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First notes that this legislation responds to the World Health Organization advice, and it ensures there is clarity, certainty, and legislative authority so that the public health response is appropriate. That is absolutely what is required. The last thing the public wants or needs is a weak or disorganised response by the Government or the health authorities in such a crisis. It is essential to be prepared, and we know that any crisis of the magnitude outlined by the previous speaker would be absolutely disastrous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe Health Act of 1956 did have some gaps that do affect the Government\u2019s ability to respond to an epidemic, and it is very timely to review and update that legislation. A number of Acts will be affected by this legislation. I read from the bill that the Holidays Act of 2003, the Income Tax Act of 2004, the Parole Act of 2002, and the Sentencing Act of 2002 will be affected\u2014it is quite an extensive list; I have mentioned only a few. Some of the legal obligations talked about by the Hon Tony Ryall are covered in this bill and, as Maryan Street said, improvements and constructive suggestions are definitely welcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EJust last year the Health Committee had a briefing from the Ministry of Health on version 14 of the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Action Plan, and there is no doubt whatsoever that the Ministry of Health has further refined that plan. The version number, I am sure, would be much higher now than 14. I believe that the Ministry of Health can be commended for the preparations it currently has under way. We always know that preparations can be improved, as the US has identified, and the Ministry of Health will no doubt be looking at the American plan with great interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E New Zealand First is pleased to see all the information and the material that are now available advising the public about the necessity for family preparedness. Although many families are able to stockpile some food and other goods in the event of a pandemic, we must be very aware too that some families on fixed incomes will find this challenging, and this aspect must be prepared for and covered in legislation. We do not want to have families unnecessarily starving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this legislation. Preparation is absolutely essential if we are to ensure that a pandemic is managed as well as it possibly can be. A pandemic threat such as bird flu, or any disease, is basically too important for petty party politics and needs leadership and measures such as are proposed and outlined in this legislation. We support this legislation going to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3b57df99d6844ae9f1fa4c85e93b152\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3b57df99d6844ae9f1fa4c85e93b152\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting this legislation going to a select committee but we do have some serious concerns that I will raise here and that I will seek to address at the select committee. Frankly, the predictions about what might happen in New Zealand if there is a pandemic are almost Kafkaesque. We have had predictions of hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders becoming ill and not being able to bury the dead and so on. We do agree with Tony Ryall in this regard\u2014the key issue will be for people to manage in their own homes, so we need to have medical care that can reach people in their homes. We think that this is\u2014along with the lack of surveillance\u2014a key hole in the pandemic preparedness plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe are pleased that we have also had a role in prodding the Government into taking greater action on this issue. At the beginning of last year the Government did not have any supplies of personal protective equipment or anything else available. Now, partly through its own initiatives and partly because of the prodding and questions of members in this House, I believe that the Government has a much greater level of preparedness, but there are still some significant gaps. Although there has been much talk about improving our surveillance, I see no evidence whatsoever of improved surveillance, so that is the greatest gap. Secondly, how will we treat people in their own homes? This fundamental question has not been answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EBut I will focus today on the issues of police powers. We certainly acknowledge that we need police powers in an emergency to be able to enforce quarantines and suchlike. We have no problem with this and we recognise that it is essential. The problem is that the police powers in this bill are completely unrestricted; we can see no restrictions on them whatsoever. What this could mean is that, for example, people could be forced to be vaccinated against their will. I think people should have an option there. They could choose to stay home rather than to be vaccinated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003ESecondly, under the powers of this bill, health professionals could be forced to go to work even if they should be protected under the Health and Safety in Employment Act. This Act states that if health professionals feel that their safety and health are at risk, they do not have to turn up to work. This bill appears to override those provisions and it seems to me that nurses, doctors, and ambulance officers etc. could be forced to work under the provisions of this legislation by force\u2014by police\u2014even if they feel that their health is at risk and even if they feel that they are not properly protected. This appears to us to override all of the provisions in the Health and Safety in Employment Act. We think this is a real concern and that health professionals ought to be made aware of the unrestrained and unrestricted nature of these powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe will be seeking to amend those police powers\u2014which we agree are necessary\u2014to make them focused on the implementation of quarantine, such as quarantining aircraft and communities, in order to protect against specific risks. We have no problem with those police powers at all. The problem is that this completely erodes civil liberties to the point where we would have no democracy but would have a totalitarian State. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe think that what has happened is that the officials, in drafting this legislation, thought about every eventuality and every situation where they might need some powers, but the consequences are that they have ended up with completely unrestricted powers, which actually offer no protection or civil liberties to individuals or indeed to health professionals. I have spoken to many health professionals, and all of them said that because of their duties they of course would wish to go to work, but that they would have concerns if they were expected to go to work unprotected, be exposed to a virus, then take that virus home and expose their families. That could cause their families to suffer from a disease. We do not know how serious bird flu might be, but it could put their lives at risk. That is why we have the provisions of the Health and Safety in Employment Act, and we are concerned that those provisions are overridden in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EMany people have referred to the 1918 influenza epidemic, but in a way we are probably far less equipped or prepared in 2006 than we were in 1918. In 1918 people knew their neighbours, they had communities\u2014communities were not decimated as so many of our communities are today\u2014and most people grew their own food. And they knew how to survive on their own. We have a tradition in our history\u2014both P\u0101keh\u0101 and M\u0101ori\u2014of people actually surviving in conditions where they are on their own. But, today most of us could not survive for much more than about 24 hours, and I think most people would indeed panic and be completely ill-equipped to cope if there was a pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWhat we need to do is to focus on encouraging people to be more self-sufficient and to be able to cope on their own, and for New Zealand as a whole, as a nation, to be more self-sufficient. We learnt that during the SARS epidemic when the Government tried to order supplies of personal protective equipment and discovered that it could not get any because there was an international panic. So the SARS epidemic progressed, and, had it come to New Zealand, we would not even have had personal protective equipment. We were completely reliant on imports for that; we simply did not have stockpiles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party members think that we need to be much better prepared as a nation and more self-reliant in respect of medicines, equipment, and indeed of basic fundamentals like food as well as drugs. We still have huge holes in that regard. We are glad the Government has begun to develop some sort of provisions\u2014for example, contingency supplies of antibiotics. We have a very limited supply of Tamiflu. It is not nearly enough even to protect our health workforce, and, from answers to written questions, we do not think we have nearly enough personal protective equipment to equip our health workforce. That being the case, it is all the more essential that if our health workforce are not able to be properly protected in the event of an epidemic, in terms of personal protective equipment, Tamiflu and so forth, then they should have the option\u2014as they are given presently under the Health and Safety in Employment Act\u2014of not turning up for work. Unfortunately, under this bill, all of those provisions are overridden, and the police powers are completely and totally unrestricted. We will certainly seek to specify those police powers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060504da209a317c084dd0901f8c514484980a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"