"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8e5b761fb414440965aea554368b8c4\u0022\u003EWednesday, 17 May 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263fcd7892fcc4cdfa3b544e25eaf3567\u0022\u003EWednesday, 17 May 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002213d8a5364c6a40d19fe9419fdede5998\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022783a2acaf19e4f8c9b3348972a8f5f15\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c8025e93472471f9fc7047c979a3b57\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014OECD Rating\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768e249e745440619b678af1efd82857\u0022\u003E1. Dr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Is it still the goal of her Government to have New Zealand \u201Creturn to the top half of the OECD ratings by 2011\u201D; if so, will tomorrow\u2019s Budget ensure that New Zealand achieves that goal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee08a9c69266420c85ca65b154e09a09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee08a9c69266420c85ca65b154e09a09\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E That statement was first raised by the previous Leader of the Opposition more than 3 years ago, at which point it was made clear that that target date was not Government policy. If Dr Brash is going to keep asking Bill English\u2019s questions, perhaps he should move aside and give Bill English the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283480f7453244e9c96058e4c59f6125e\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister forgotten that she made that commitment in the Speech from the Throne in 1999?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf67fa787e0b437fac423b0cd4be2f2b\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I am certainly not aware that a 10-year date was set in the Speech from the Throne in 1999. Given that the member is so interested in the OECD, perhaps he should accept what the OECD actually said, which is that for New Zealand, increases in real GDP per person have outpaced the OECD 10-year moving average since 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224acf0fadf37e4626a7cc588524f79136\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that the Australian, American, and Canadian economies are all forecast to grow at over 3 percent annually for the foreseeable future; and can she tell the House, with any confidence at all, that New Zealand\u2019s economy will grow as fast as any one of those economies as a result of tomorrow\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f38cae19e347eeaa9458b6f1d90f60\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It is fair to point out the New Zealand economy has been growing faster than all of those economies while Labour has been in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022871c89ff49144951a85373614a6b3f2b\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that, having promised that only 5 percent of New Zealanders would pay the top rate of personal tax when that was increased in 2000, 11 percent of taxpayers and 20 percent of full-time earners are now paying the top rate of 39c in the dollar; and can she tell the House how poor incentives like that will help New Zealand to claw its way back into the top half of developed nations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f007adfc7684d0f8028b03a3f14ef5e\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The incentives cannot be too poor; 300,000 more Kiwis are in jobs today than there were under a National Government 6 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328c3193bb394986943b9169acbb88d1\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that skilled New Zealanders earning less than 1\u00BD times the average wage are taxed at the highest personal tax rate, and can she tell the House why, if those New Zealanders are so rich, they qualify for welfare payments under her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c170feb8bc84bc083be61b145ec02e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that the family tax relief offered by the Labour Government is entirely in line with the kind of targeted family tax relief offered in many other Western countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2c4c1c19c9d4679b0256c7f408e3a2a\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept that to have a successful economy we need to minimise unemployment, maximise productivity, pay reasonable wages, and develop first-class infrastructure in areas such as roading and transport, and, further, does she accept that that is the exact reverse of what National achieved when it was last in Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a74baec2659e4e97aba59dbcdbeb228b\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I entirely agree with the member, because I have a very clear recollection of the Employment Contracts Act and what it did to workers\u2019 wages in New Zealand, making us lag well behind Australian wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271085c904f5c4edd9db245608d6c3f1c\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that average after-tax Australian incomes were 20 percent higher than those in New Zealand in 1999 and are now 33 percent higher than those in New Zealand, and that the Australian economy will grow at more than 3 percent this year while the New Zealand economy has stalled; and will she explain to the House how, on those trends, New Zealand after-tax incomes will ever again equal those in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be482738ffbc45cfa76b3ecd0e5ac3d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that after years of growing more slowly than New Zealand, Australia may have a better year than we have this year. I can also confirm that 9 years of the Employment Contracts Act kicked the struts out from under Kiwi wages. That was accomplished by Don Brash and friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2316df8b0745a68688f081118e01e5\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d107a2a904e4719bfa7ba6080f4c743\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member please be seated. Members know that when members are on their feet to ask a question, they are heard in silence. If there is another interruption, members will leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e716e5ef2d54fd8a9567aedde224827\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports that indicate that for the 30 years from 1970 to 2000, mainly under National Governments, New Zealand underperformed against the Australian economy to the extent of 30 percent per capita GDP in that time, and that since the year 2000 New Zealand has outperformed Australia in GDP per capita in those last 6 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce256bdcf144dc2ab90d810417e8c2b\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I can certainly confirm the trend\u2014that under a Labour Government in recent years the performance has outranked Australia\u2019s\u2014and I further note that National, having lurched from Muldoonism to \u201CRuthanasia\u201D, never found an answer for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5902ef284934cf6ae7b1517600078e8\u0022\u003EPolice Numbers\u2014Confidence and Supply Agreement, New Zealand First\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dadf3491faa24375997efd63227f3382\u0022\u003EMARTIN GALLAGHER (Labour\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What steps has the Government announced which implement the confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First in respect of police numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00220431dc5587794e25999e3034213738e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220431dc5587794e25999e3034213738e6\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E This Government has committed around $387 million in operating costs and $114 million in capital costs over the next three Budgets to enable the New Zealand Police to recruit and train an additional 1,000 front-line sworn police officers and 250 non-sworn police staff, as negotiated with New Zealand First in the confidence and supply agreement. This funding was announced yesterday in Whangarei, Wellsford, and Wiri police stations and will allow the New Zealand Police to intensify the current recruiting programme and training schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a07d5ea75f8f457a957f0e9b848c8cbf\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement yesterday that she does not underestimate the difficulties in recruiting extra police; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228611172df6f146a3ada1b1d44c65e51c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I stand by that statement. I have been saying publicly for about 6 months that the recruitment and training of 1,000 extra front-line sworn police and 250 non-sworn staff, which will be funded by this Government, is a challenge, but it is one that the New Zealand Police and the New Zealand Government are prepared to rise to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd10114df6ad413bb2a0b5dc72d1a661\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is very difficult to hear answers to questions, so would members please just lower their contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022939179b9fb784dec8014b2d8e2614e2f\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: How does she reconcile the fact that 50 of the 406 new recruits will be assigned to traffic patrol with the commitment to New Zealand First to consider separating traffic duties from police; and how did Ron Mark react when she told him, given his statement before the election: \u201COur communities are not safe, our children are not safe. And all for what? We\u2019re chasing bloody traffic tickets.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222abe95e8cbb2418489dd46c35c7862f9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to the second part of the member\u2019s question, a review of the separation of the police from traffic duties is being undertaken by the State Services Commission, in line with our agreement with the New Zealand First Party. In relation to the first part of the question, 50 of the 1,000 police are going into road policing duties and that is because we know that crooks also drive. The police are likely to pick up crooks on the road when they stop them\u2014drunk crooks\u2014and they are likely to pick up those who have stolen goods and weapons in their cars. So we believe that it is good policing to also have some police out on the roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f383e799f2664d139829d78ec47d80f1\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm to the House that the good news does not stop just with the introduction of 1,250 extra police staff, that under the supply and confidence agreement with the Labour Government, New Zealand First has secured a commitment towards achieving ratios in police per capita in New Zealand equivalent to that of Australia by 2010, and that the only thing that might interdict that might be the election into Government of a party whose only track record is to cut police numbers? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c450f94d8bd248e08dc58f89df3bdb9a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not for members to comment on others\u2019 questions when they are in fact asking the question. Everyone is on their final warning. Would the member like to repeat his question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223771842e68814a45b70b59c0e4dd6b58\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister like to confirm to the House that the good news does not stop just with the introduction into service of 1,250 extra police staff, that under the terms of the supply and confidence agreement with the Labour Government New Zealand First has secured a commitment to achieving ratios comparable\u2014that is, officers per citizen\u2014with those of Australia by 2010, and that the only risk we can see to that occurring might be the election of a Government whose only track record in police numbers is that of cutting numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a20edccc970400f940b84a608102da5\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232a272cbcba44d9c845bd9ff409ca240\u0022\u003ETelecom New Zealand\u2014Communications, Minister\u2019s Statement on Dividends\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249705182392745ccb0a42e12492ec8b9\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Communications: Does he stand by his statement that Telecom shareholders \u201Cneed to accept that in the short run there may be somewhat lower dividend flows or lower returns\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd881d2b9b454b27ba5d808a4c1e904a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd881d2b9b454b27ba5d808a4c1e904a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Communications):\u003C/span\u003E As I said in the article referred to, and have clarified since, Telecom\u2019s dividends policy is a matter for the Telecom board. The issue has been referred to the Securities Commission, and it is therefore not appropriate for me to comment further at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57ff80614ea41daa87e5b7914171fe7\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does he acknowledge that as Minister of Communications he is the Minister with the most inside information about the future of Telecom, including whether it will be forced by the Government to be physically separated at some stage in the future; if so, does he consider comments about its future dividends policy to be the actions of a responsible Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e47077d5817e4048866a517d92dc6391\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, the matter has been referred to the Securities Commission, and should the commission ask it, I will cooperate fully with it on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289d270644eaf4d1c8af1c28a143fe6b0\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that his comments being posted on the Bloomberg News wire at 12.30 yesterday immediately led to 75 million trades in Telecom stock yesterday afternoon, which was a massive increase in the volume of trade normally experienced with this stock; if so, does he consider that all participants in the New Zealand sharemarket have been fairly and equally treated by the dissemination of this information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc3f485a362144c082949cc477f5d2fa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to my clarifying statement issued this morning, and I repeat that the matter has been referred to the Securities Commission, and if asked I will cooperate fully with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263f2ad61d14c4abd8ea7c609da467cb4\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think it was Dr Smith who just indicated that you had goofed. He has been around for a few years now, and he knows that he should not address that sort of comment to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc62c6c06f2422882c9d96a15caeea4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, may I make it absolutely plain to the House that the goofing remark referred to David Cunliffe and not you as Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b28a83a3cd42859534fc71ff7d25b0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the comment was directed not at the Speaker but at another member, and if it was not made when a question was being asked, it was perfectly in order. However, I would just warn members that implications about the Chair are to be taken very seriously in the future, as I have now counted up the number of statements that have been made as asides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290df69b27f6a492ca2201c7deaeb692b\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that Bloomberg News is a wholesale news service, and is not accessed by retail investors, and that he was making his comments to a wholesale news service and not to the entire market; that the bulk of the $200 million lost by investors yesterday afternoon was borne by retail investors\u2014namely, Kiwi mums and dads\u2014and does he consider it fair that Kiwi mums and dads lost $200 million yesterday on the back of his statements? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df4ec19eb5ef48d9973839c8be0321d9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: As I have previously answered, the matter has been referred to the Securities Commission, and I will cooperate fully with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261149c944b8c45d5a21db0078c869f07\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What impact does he think it has on the professional image of the New Zealand Exchange and on the confidence that investors have in our stock market when a Minister with not only a vested interest but also inside information makes, at best, a grossly irresponsible and inappropriate comment that sees one group of shareholders\u2014namely, Kiwi mums and dads\u2014savaged by another group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a2f7cbf011e429baf694ec4f5dd00c4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s question contained a number of presuppositions that are by no means established. The matter has been referred to the Securities Commission, and I will cooperate fully with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cecb1373515349ea8a9704c2f722b270\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What was the purpose of his comments about Telecom\u2019s dividend policy if it was not to send a signal to the company, when the Cabinet papers specifically state that the future separation of the company rests on the Government\u2019s assessment of \u201CTelecom\u2019s cooperation in meeting the Government\u2019s broadband objectives\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a954bf588244f9fa2c4cfa34dfe6ed4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Telecom\u2019s dividend policy is, as I have said, a matter for the Telecom board to decide. The matter has been referred to the Securities Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de1365b2090945de90aa7b385ca4cbf8\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the New Zealand Exchange has formally passed the matter to the Securities Commission for investigation, and if, as a result of that investigation, he is found to have breached the law, will he follow the lead of his bench mate, David Parker, and resign his warrants; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217dcd369816b4d85af586921dd479937\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I think it can be taken from my previous answers that I was aware of that referral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b87b130d4c4bc38d9c2ef5f9f8fb88\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: What sort of signal does it send to investors\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ad894810eca4bc8852c925c7cb7c39d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022314c54615ebc46b1a55b0d85385c6d2b\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014they are excited to see me. What sort of signal does it send to investors, both here and around the world, when the Government pinches private property from Telecom, the Prime Minister hints that the company will be broken in two, and the Minister of Communications directs that the company\u2019s dividend be reduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e07ebb61b34b10bcd2e447ea20e04b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: However gratifying it is to have the member back in the House, I suggest that he checks his facts first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf71737497ec48cda92a5f0bb1762db7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is no need for that comment. Would the Minister please address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243b8d28440044323b34a41525bb4ce97\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The assumptions in the member\u2019s question may be the subject of possible action by the Securities Commission, with which I will cooperate fully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cc3eaeecb034772acb750ae4aa9dbc8\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: In his first attempt at an answer the Minister said my facts were wrong; which facts were wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022221477761d314a66a47034edb124fa3e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, the matter may be the subject of discussion with the Securities Commission, and I will cooperate fully with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a22b36c4b344673a598f2990e1015a4\u0022\u003ESchool Attendance\u2014Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e2054c007bb4d80a283c0e0eb5e248a\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to ensure that students stay at school?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022496efea608d04c6da3e03c3d7ff54141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022496efea608d04c6da3e03c3d7ff54141\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is committed to the goal of all students staying at school until they are 16 years of age and they gain a qualification. The programmes that work towards this goal include $20 million a year to fund 18,020 student places in alternative education, 14 activity centres and 16 team parenting units, 782 specialist behaviour teachers and 109 specialist literacy teachers working nationwide, $8.5 million over 3 years to fund the Student Engagement Initiative, and the recently announced\u2014just prior to this coming Budget\u2014$9.5 million to help schools with disruptive students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d76265f3f7e74bb4b8ae67087ee29de2\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Student Engagement Initiative encouraged students to stay at school until 16 and attain qualifications so that they are ready to enter the workforce or go on to further study?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0e73d470a724389988fcdc81fa15b3a\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to announce that results show that the Student Engagement Initiative is encouraging students to stay at school and to stay engaged with learning. The results show, for example, that truancy rates decreased in 11 out of 15 target regions, early leaving exemption rates have decreased in targeted schools from 541 in 2002 to 350 in 2004, suspension rates have dropped by 30 percent between 2000 and 2005, and suspension for drug offences has decreased by 15 percent. Those excellent programmes mean that young New Zealanders are staying at school, gaining qualifications, and benefiting from the amazingly successful economy that this Government is creating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa957cb39b974d8bbd0b4669b326dac2\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: What reassurances can the Minister give that New Zealand will meet the needs of new international secondary students, in light of recent Chinese media reports of neglect of international students in New Zealand and the associated drop in Chinese student numbers, and what steps will the Government take to ensure that New Zealand schools insist upon adequate support and age-appropriate supervision for all international students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292214597f8dc4f2ebebda2e925ea7392\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will know, one of the initiatives taken by the Government has been to ensure that all providers of international education sign up to a pastoral care code. Unfortunately, one of the problems we face is that there are people who run programmes outside registration and accreditation in this country, and I think that that is one of the issues we do need to get on top of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de31234a436845c6bbcfe9acd93d345a\u0022\u003EPrime Minister and Cabinet, Department\u2014Document Handling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a2596b8ddd4590917447a683d58406\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Is she satisfied with arrangements for the handling of sensitive Government documents by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bef5ce09e2d24b818e7d2c02a066c5bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bef5ce09e2d24b818e7d2c02a066c5bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The systems in place for document handling have been in place for many years. I expect the system to be reviewed in the wake of this report, but I also accept that the best system will not thwart blatant dishonesty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8a225e2bf54b48b652b69793539e02\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think it is acceptable for commercially sensitive documents to be left lying around an office, and would she agree that if anyone was looking for a document worth pinching, the best place to look may be the basket labelled \u201CFor confidential shredding.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227df63e24d054a268a25bc0c20dd6f83\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly, documents are not left just lying around; they are put in a tray for shredding, and they are removed for shredding by a person with the clearance to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272528a9dc5104b25915f89c72ac56d7b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister explain to the House why a Cabinet paper that was so commercially sensitive that every copy was numbered and delivered in sealed envelopes was then tossed into a basket and was able to be read by anyone who walked into the office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244224131ee964d24beb2015cac553e8a\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the processes followed are those that have been followed in the department for many years. Those processes are now being reviewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50d1812f1ac429bbb07f97502730425\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Is it common practice for Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet messengers to view the agenda for Cabinet committee meetings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022875e6bbb119e4885a59e46299db3ba37\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I am advised that this man, who had the appropriate clearance, was the person responsible for distributing the Cabinet committee agendas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcd57003b75d4f3e9341d98ed9c3ab47\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That was not an answer to the question. We know what this man did. The question is whether it is common practice for people distributing agendas to have access to read them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e0535a58d3c4a4095cecd4c2192dc29\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Prime Minister did address the question, but if she wanted to add any more she could. I think it was addressed. [Interruption] It was addressed. I was thinking about the question and the answer that was given. As members know, they cannot require a specific answer to their question. That is the point, really. If members want to change those rules, I would more than welcome an item being brought before the Standing Orders Committee to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b31e0215eb45b48b5daaeefd6569dc\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am happy with the rules. I am concerned about the fact that it is for you to adjudicate them, not to check with the Prime Minister whether the answer to the question was in order. It is for you to decide, Madam Speaker, and you alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d7c1a168b07429690ea337b89d8985f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and, in fact, I did make the ruling, Mr Hide. I do not need you to make a comment on my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2a55dbd17d340658329d247a5e726d8\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen the terms of reference for the Securities Commission investigation into the leak, in particular its intention to consider if any Government and/or State sector policies and procedures for handling non-public, market sensitive information related to securities were appropriate and properly applied in this case, and will she assure the House that the Securities Commission investigations will have unimpeded access to the offices of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and any other Government or ministerial office they may wish to make inquiries of?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4278402d5c44a0bbcadc15da73b4295\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not seen those terms of reference, but just as the Securities Commission is very anxious to see good process, so are we. I am sure that all relevant departments will work very closely with the commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227118b010b4d84cf3b4ba5194a2e9b8ed\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the terms of reference for the Securities Commission investigation into the leak in which the commission makes it clear it wants to investigate the activities in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and, it would appear, other ministries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282fb5ad384154ea6a7602748986127b5\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is usual for Ministers to table documents they refer to. Given that the leaked Cabinet paper is well known to Telecom, to Mike Ryan, the Onslow Tarbabies cycle club, and who knows who else, will the Prime Minister put MPs in the loop, unbundle the Cabinet paper, and table it in the House today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c52d54587874a878a25578a3f4284d0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not a point of order; that is a supplementary question, and if the member had wished to ask a supplementary question, he was perfectly entitled to do so. [Interruption] That member may wish to leave the Chamber if he makes one more comment like that. That is not Mr Brownlee; it is his colleague at the back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a192c0c63717480da3fade296770dab0\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Cabinet paper in question, so that Mr Locke can catch up with the rest of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cf3a12824154bb189e02502ef0abbcd\u0022\u003ERail Services, Auckland\u2014Finance, Minister\u0027s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a94ef2c1e7044579a73ab6afde727c1\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his reported statement to the Auckland mayors that \u201Crail will never work\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00227d4a52f6884f4dc19741360ad31f912a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d4a52f6884f4dc19741360ad31f912a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E No, because I have never said that. As I said yesterday, that would be a strange thing to say, coming from a Minister who ensured that the Auckland rail line was bought for Auckland, who is the shareholding Minister in ONTRACK, and who, not to mention this, spent 18 years as the member of Parliament for the electorate representing those working at the Hillside railway workshops.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84c6166870f4efcb59a9f6a839ea0b2\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware, then, that Auckland trains have double the capacity they had a year ago and are still completely full at peak times, and that there has been a 33 percent increase in rail patronage in Auckland in just 1 year, despite a fare increase; and is he supportive, then, of those Aucklanders who are filling up our trains in order to save money, time, or the environment, or does he think they will soon be back on the road and sitting in traffic jams?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d469a326a1d4b488a40b8495a25334b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am totally supportive of them. That is why the Government is subsidising the operating costs of Auckland rail to the tune of $26 million in this particular year, and why it has approved the double tracking of the western line, despite the fact that the cost-benefit ratio at the time the decision was made was only about one to one, which is well below the cost-benefit ratio for roading projects that get approved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bd16191124c40f790456c46106d9b7c\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept Transit\u2019s own figures that show that congestion in Auckland will be worse in 10 years even if billions of dollars are spent on motorways that fewer and fewer people can afford to use; and if he did not say that rail will not work, then what exactly did he say about rail to the Auckland mayors that had them become so upset?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8669f41816e4713823985e7f4dada2b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: From what I hear of the feedback, a number of the Auckland mayors were not in the least upset by what I said at that meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261c9190cbe3b4adba4bb784008b68459\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that rail alone will not solve the mass transportation of passengers, that there has to be an alternative, and that we have to have roads, buses, cars, and taxis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022718cb242e9f34df7b4c2fd087ff49bcd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe the member should have left that last bit out. I think it is fair to say that the bulk of public transport in Auckland will be provided by the bus services. I have suggested frequently to Aucklanders that the best slogan they can have, in terms of public transport, is \u201Cbuses need roads, too\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d75528569b94240a487456a9047cd8e\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that in Perth, a city with the same sort of population density as Auckland, rail patronage has increased from 7 million journeys annually in 1990 to around 40 million journeys today, through electrification and other improvements; and does he think that the people and planners of Perth are wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ba8ed50d4454929a0124bfab438c47d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No. Perth, of course, is a very different shape from Auckland, and it has very different opportunities from Auckland in terms of rail transport. Auckland has two rail lines, with no real prospect of any further rail lines being built other than the two that are there. Therefore, Auckland cannot build a metro network to service the entire Auckland area that would also service the nature of movements within Auckland. What is more, business traffic, including service business traffic, cannot travel on rail. Plumbers will not cart their pipes and their gear on the train.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f94bc54c24146a882b225ac4e8c5262\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that while he has been assuring Auckland mayors and MPs in this House that the future lies with buses and roads, Land Transport New Zealand is using a funding formula for Wellington\u2019s electric trolley bus network that is putting the entire network at risk; and can he assure the people of Wellington that this Government will not stand by and allow Wellington\u2019s trolley bus network to collapse under its watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7710a17452441e88bd4dae1bff75701\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The original question was about Auckland. As far as I am aware, the southern spread of Auckland has not yet reached Wellington, and we are not planning for that within the foreseeable future. The subsidies that apply to Wellington are the same as those that apply to the rest of the country, and the Government certainly will not give guarantees of open-ended cheques for any supplier of any particular service in public transport. So far, the proponents of electrification in Auckland, which is a new proposal in terms of the cost for the Government to bear, have not demonstrated that it actually bears any sensible cost-benefit ratio in terms of the outcomes. If it does, then the Government will be prepared to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002272a78c7e71ab480ba8bd179445898201\u0022\u003EPolice Numbers\u2014Recruitment Issues\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c34befbbbbf432696ce44c15533ede4\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement yesterday that she does not underestimate the difficulties in recruiting extra police; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd52978b4904471cac92496d0932664c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd52978b4904471cac92496d0932664c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I have been saying publicly for about 6 months that the recruitment and training of 1,000 extra front-line sworn and 250 non-sworn police staff, which will be funded by the Government in conjunction with our supply and confidence agreement with New Zealand First, is a challenge, but it is one that the New Zealand Police and the Government are prepared to rise to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022603c0a778c774fb58ca63288c1ba6ab4\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: How will she recruit extra police when even temporary constables are not up to the job, according to a Christchurch police officer, who claims that some decoy cops have abused their status as sworn officers to have their home phones connected quickly, or to go through customs without being stopped, and also that some have used their uniforms to pull over drivers, or to give a talk at a primary school, although their experience is limited to guarding crime scenes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f74bbc5f98a14b4183946fc4061beb1b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Because the 1,000 police we will be recruiting will be full-time sworn police\u2014they will not be temporary sworn police\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aa618ccd24c4d819f9771c9c6e678e3\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019ll be a cardboard cut-out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224aaa9bdab7ca4f0985e54b4ba089617a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I am glad David Carter just interjected about cardboard police, because the only decoy cops I can remember were the cardboard cut-outs that National put into shopping malls when it was last in Government. Those were the last decoy cops we have seen. However, National was prepared to have temporary sworn police when it was in Government. I said last week that we have had temporary sworn police for around 10 years. I was wrong: we have had them for more than 10 years. They were OK under the National Government, but National is trying to make an issue out of them now. New Zealanders are laughing at those members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f9f29efdad34a2e9239224d3074607e\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned about the competence of potential recruits when, according to a Christchurch police officer, decoy cops have fallen asleep while guarding a crime scene, smoked and worn jandals while in uniform, and driven police cars with lights flashing because they did not know how to turn them off, which caused other traffic to pull over?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227652e7b50f3f40dc9d20bfd2a3903f22\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the gigglers at the back of the Chamber that it is an interruption to giggle\u2014and it is a member of their own party who is asking the question. I am trying to apply the rules evenly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022120e085ae8544ba9a78e16b1185a2f86\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have any doubt about the competence of the 1,000 sworn police officers whom we are about to recruit. They will be competent, because that will be a requirement. However, I know that Labour questioned the competencies of the cardboard cut-outs put in place as decoy cops by the National Government\u2014and we should have questioned them. But I certainly have a lot more confidence in the New Zealand Police and its recruitment campaign than the National Party does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f26471dccbe46a6a6c003bbb40ad424\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her assurance in the House last week that these decoy cops surrender their uniforms once they cease duty, given that their exploits reported in the Christchurch Press clearly show that they have been using their uniforms while off duty to masquerade as fully trained officers; and will she now admit that last week, on this issue, she misled the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc7891f6fef4e6b8bc7a417974c757e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, I will not admit that I misled the House. The member asked whether they hand in their uniforms when they leave their positions as temporary sworn police, and I answered that, yes, they do. That was the question; I answered it. I have no knowledge, and I have not been advised, that temporary sworn police are acting in an inappropriate manner, other than the reported comment that one was seen smoking\u2014I do not approve of that, either; I do not approve of smoking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E However, I have not got that information. What I do know is that that member has misled the House. Last week he took the answer to a supplementary question that Tony Ryall had asked, about the number of temporary sworn police in 2004\u2014he changed it to 2005 yesterday\u2014during a muster crisis, and used it to say that that was the number of temporary sworn police in New Zealand. He misled the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c7cd002679426dbb1db5dd88902688\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the number of decoy cops increased massively from just 17 in June last year, as reported in the annual report, to 330 now; and if they are counted by the Government as part of the total number of sworn officers, what is the real number of fully trained, sworn, front-line police officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c06e962ec4a04f5c8c31a70aa39fd165\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: They are not counted by the Government in our total number of fully sworn police officers. The member is incorrect. I can tell the House that, throughout the time that New Zealand has had temporary sworn police, they were never counted by the National Government. The New Zealand Police has no record of the number of temporary sworn police. However, I can tell the House that in 2003 there were 200 temporary sworn police, because we started to keep a record of the number we had. I do not know why the National Government did not do that, but I suspect that it was counting them as front-line police. This Government is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022043cf6b80fe54ab894763862cf1a1179\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can she give an assurance to the House that police recruitment staff are using objective criteria to identify which people might make the best recruits, and that they are encouraging applications from a wide cross-section of society?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701db5f2e0eb4411987121283d0fa158\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I have been advised by the police that they are using the criteria they have used for some time. Recruitment is the job of the police. I am not involved in recruitment itself, but I have been told the police are using criteria that have been used for a number of years. I cannot add to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022806b402b7c074d46930a292befc5d519\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Does she recall an incident in Christchurch a number of years ago, when a Government introduced the policy of employing Armourguard security officers to secure a crime scene, which comprised a house, and one of the Christchurch gangs implicated in the crime that had been committed in that house managed to sneak in behind the Armourguard security people and burn the house to the ground; if so, does that suggest that problems associated with employing temporary officers, or contract people such as Armourguard officers, are not new, and they are things that have to be worked through?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b18d2e2eac474550b9851bf21293780f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I was reminded of that incident very recently, and that it had occurred under a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a10c39e0aa9480c9927099343a0c625\u0022\u003EElective Surgery\u2014Discharges\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4f3937fe1ab4aeab959868f3229b364\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How many elective surgery patient discharges were there in the financial year to March 2006, and how does this compare with the same period in 2000-01?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022a111326eadbd45a4bd4f0bd156ffaf25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a111326eadbd45a4bd4f0bd156ffaf25\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E There has been a 1 percent decrease in the two 9-month periods that the member has chosen. If, however, he had chosen the most recent financial year 12-month period, he would have demonstrated an increase on the previous year or the year before that, or an 8 percent increase since the change of Government, or a 15.4 percent case-weighted increase since the change of Government\u2014in other words, to prove a decrease requires the member to be very selective with his electives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e434a44659cc407ebee299a395492a5e\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister plan to do about the disconnect in Government policy where, on the one hand, the Government is encouraging more people to see their general practitioner, and, on the other hand, if they are sick, the Government does not want them anywhere near a hospital waiting list?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a09a978a37ac4d16a7148b8398f33a85\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member continues to make it up. Clearly, the member\u2019s comments reveal that he is against prioritisation, against ongoing care for patients, and against the booking system created by his colleague the former Minister and former and future leader of the National Party, the Hon Bill English. He would rather have people waiting and waiting without being seen by anyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244bf22d1635849e286317101c8811c34\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Does elective surgery discharge data include outpatient procedures; if not, will he take steps to include this information in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f89c3deb1f4f0da766e8725af432ca\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, elective surgery data does not include the growing number of procedures that have shifted to outpatient settings since the change of Government. From 1 July this year a new national non-admitted patients database will start to give us a real picture of how many elective procedures are being performed in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a7e78a17e0c497aa70d9cfb6c850351\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government\u2019s relationship with the health sector so bad, when it was under better control under Annette King, but now, having been under Pete Hodgson for 6 months, we have fewer electives, the Minister calling the surgeons unethical, and general practitioners refusing to sign their contract\u2014a contract that Annette King successfully negotiated on two previous occasions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b4c8f96c8f547b084c0c72b5e480912\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: In reply to the member\u2019s three questions, in respect of the first one, the number of electives is going up, not down. In respect of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228880a4bac98b437d99b10ee02bd6e01a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: You said it was going down just before!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b007f3e8f9194af99fd310628e3d0f7d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, we will deal with just two of them then. In respect of the second one, the member\u2019s colleague the Hon Tony Ryall has been telling the media breathlessly that this is the first red letter that has ever been sent. The Hon Tony Ryall is wrong on that point, as well\u2014as he is wrong on most points. This is the third red letter to be sent. This is red-letter sending season.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f91cfad167f40bdb6acac8a85911231\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister of Health explain putting out a press statement praising the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board for its surgical performance when answers to written questions show that he based that statement on data from a completely different district health board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f25ae2472c44c69f10f80994e2cbae\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that the Ministry of Health changes its data from time to time, and it did manage to swap half of the data between Taranaki and Hawke\u2019s Bay recently. However, it does change its data less often than the National Party changes its leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bb1469f1d4442499464bd6d659a00e3\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Why did we never have any of this sort of embarrassment being caused for the Government when Annette King was in charge of health, yet under just 6 months of Mr Hodgson health is a permanent albatross around the Prime Minister\u2019s neck?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f688df7c97ac41d8a9fc1267031a98c9\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member continues to make it up. What I ask the member to take into account is whether a party that 8 months ago went to the hustings and said: \u201CWe will have $11 billion worth of tax cuts over the next 4 years.\u201D, would then want to know how it is possible to also put more money into health. One has to make a choice around here. Either one is in favour of investing in health and education and the future of this country, or one is in favour of giving it away in tax cuts. One can spend money once, and I am glad we won that election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e17f543dabfb4b37bb45bf79f4ccc2bd\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have been reflecting upon your comment earlier during this question time about your wish to enforce the rules even-handedly, and it occurs to me that an appropriate way in which you could do that would be to enforce Mr Speaker Tapsell\u2019s ruling 150/1 regarding there being no interjections during question time. I think you would have a majority of support amongst members in this House if you chose to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221691afe06dca4834bd62664d266de180\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I think it is a serious suggestion and I will take it under advisement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdad93e61b4c434cbfa3dbaa5e97f32c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Minister of Health\u2019s press statement that praised the performance of the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board, and the figures he used to praise the board, and a second document that shows those figures did not relate in any way to that board. How incompetent is that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac17744f45124b1fa37e0b579fd3a66f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e37f872889a4f30a7e314ec6eefdcc0\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table three documents: one showing an increase in the last financial year in elective surgery discharges compared with the previous financial year, a second one showing an increase of 8 percent in elective surgery discharges since the change of Government, and a third one showing a 15.4 percent increase in case-weighted discharges for elective surgery since the change of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eecc59514bf41148e7283015a7d709d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc9e8c511b94016bc9575a4293a5510\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I want to check with you whether, in fact, it is necessary for the Minister to seek leave to table a document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022416395fcbc2e452e91337f9c196c0163\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am advised it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286528b55bb254036829bff73814f3036\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask that the Minister table the documents he quoted from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7299f74e9341f586c30cee18dc759c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, but I do not understand that. Obviously, if the Minister quoted from an official document, then he can be asked to table it. Is that what the Minister was doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be1a80d0d8994fed842c6bf68535ff38\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: These are documents that I am happy to table and I am happy not to table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205dc03e7107040679133931d490f0892\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave was sought to table them and it was denied, so that ends the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cd6e48f25174e8ab48bcf196f157188\u0022\u003EAged Care\u2014Residential Care Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dc8842bdffe4ba7ad99d22d68970dd3\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What steps is he taking to ensure that the significant funding boost to the aged residential care sector that is to feature in this year\u2019s Budget is delivered to the aged-care sector in its entirety and in a timely fashion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00223907bd5ea5a74cbe8f3bb4b20f85eb79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223907bd5ea5a74cbe8f3bb4b20f85eb79\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The significant funding boost agreed between the Labour-led Government and the New Zealand First Party will be delivered to providers in a timely fashion. The aged residential care contract review process has already started and is nearly complete, putting us months and months ahead of where we were this time last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dfcd849cf624a9f85a1104bc8eb7082\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: How confident is the Minister that the funding reserved for aged care in this year\u2019s Budget will be solely used for this purpose, given that some district health boards in the past have diverted such funding elsewhere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f5c77d585542a39b54f41891e929b0\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There will be full flow-through, and there is agreement as to the algorithm for calculating that flow-through. The flow-through will occur only if the contracts are signed in time, but so far we are on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26519e65fbb4eab8c3ebb71a9277cd8\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What increases in investment has the Labour-led Government delivered for the aged-care sector; and how will the Minister assure the public that the Government will continue to invest in the health of older New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022827c458767a24c4cb10f6ae49bafdf62\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour-led Government has delivered a 30 percent increase in aged residential care funding since the change of Government. Funding for home-based care funding has at least doubled since the change of Government. Tomorrow\u2019s Budget will lever these figures even higher. I can assure the public that this Government will be able to invest in the health of older New Zealanders because it opposes the reckless tax cuts that are still being called for by National that would mean the slashing and burning of vital public health services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7d63121b9064d838cab16c977f5a4cd\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister continue to blame district health boards, aged-care providers, and anyone but his Government\u2019s lack of funding, for the workforce and funding crises in this sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc417efc50c74b21b8e7776c7b42faf7\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member clearly did not listen to my answer to the substantive question. I certainly do not blame anyone. Since the change of Government, there has been a 30 percent increase in aged residential care funding, and home-based care funding has more than doubled. These are the sorts of investments that can be undertaken if one does not have reckless tax cuts on one\u2019s mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b7736e598864e048b13b9b5771b5e2a\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a newspaper article from the Wanganui Chronicle for Saturday, 23 April, \u201CPetrol costs relief\u2014home support staff still waiting\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0f64cf66ecf43c093196ac9e870b3e8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a05d08415b554027844f2e545a55f9ab\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article from the Timaru Herald of 2 May, headed: \u201CCare workers still waiting\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266fca85eda3f41f1a4a467630c8169a2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c396be6bd0084a39910b89b48dd7bbbd\u0022\u003EAged Care\u2014Abuse or Neglect\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c7618f762444720b36aa529faa767ed\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Senior Citizens: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CAs far as the Government is concerned, abuse or neglect of our older citizens in residential care\u2014or anywhere else, for that matter\u2014is abhorrent. It is simply unacceptable.\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00222203639963e64a23b4cf2019ea6862b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222203639963e64a23b4cf2019ea6862b9\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Senior Citizens: Yes, because abuse or neglect of our older citizens in residential care\u2014or anywhere for that matter\u2014is abhorrent. It is simply unacceptable, and that is why the Government in last year\u2019s Budget committed an additional $3 million over 4 years for elder abuse and neglect prevention services, details of which are contained in the speech from which the quote is taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239094ed0bb7c44059334593e6885fc5b\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Does she consider acceptable the printing of photos of our vulnerable elderly people, naked?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c7647e623345c2839c6864a38dfbdf\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that it is unhelpful to make public statements in response to allegations before the precise nature of a complaint is determined and the facts of the matter established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b39ee8051c1d40049d5c051fd26ad7f0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was impossible to hear the Minister\u2019s response. I just remind members that I am taking under advisement what the Hon Peter Dunne said. So would members please keep interjections to a level where other members in the Chamber can hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a200e9b3232c4ef883a6f5f4b2eba4d0\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason the Minister has not spoken out publicly against this abuse that she is more interested in Labour\u2019s relationship with the nurses\u2019 union than in doing what is right for the elderly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bcc43739a944f1bb3bd5eaa0b621169\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: No. It is because I believe it is unhelpful to make public statements in response to allegations before the precise nature of a complaint is determined and the facts of the matter established.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4afe9e42a3e46eabbc466a76186dcdb\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister inform us as to how the Elder Abuse and Neglect Prevention services respond to complaints received in relation to a rest home resident?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278088701a3994d38add66712b96b33cb\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that, essentially, the role of such coordinators is to assess the nature of the complaint first, and then refer it to the appropriate agency as necessary. It is the nature of the complaint that will determine the nature of the referral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c004c590636499fba7a855d534e7dbe\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: How does she think that the publication of these photos, and her dismissal of their gravity, helps further her Government\u2019s goal of the promotion of positive attitudes towards older people, which is fundamental to preventing elder abuse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d991958df35d4a45bf408e712d29b863\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: My reading of the statements in the newspaper about this matter would suggest that the issue is one of consent, and that is something that an older person is entitled to give.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293ecbf27e94e435396c3a99f611d24cd\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Kai Tiaki Nursing New Zealand magazine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d018da7f067f4b469fa6415fc18483dd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224089bae55844fbf853e9a83b2992e7a\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the New Zealand Herald article of 16 May, headed: \u201CRow over pictures of naked patients\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246853f3c4a0645868b53836eed6a88c3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248d71216e01e4b11a57e57448aa4b3a6\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article in the Dominion Post of Wednesday, 17 May, headed: \u201CFamily may sue over rest home photo\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e1105ec16c405e9ddefa210f4c78c9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223bc3b0c1b343437392d170fbad4eefd2\u0022\u003ETobacco Consumption\u2014Reduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c4c37603dda48ab800135944a56dcda\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: What initiatives is the Government considering to reduce tobacco consumption?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00223e6b62fa299e4f0fb0ba44c70e33c397\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e6b62fa299e4f0fb0ba44c70e33c397\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Last week I released a consultation document that proposes a series of warnings, including graphic pictures like the one I am holding up, and a text on both the front and back of cigarette packets, which overseas experience shows can be a significant deterrent, especially among young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bd3e580710543f6aedbacb4dc79968e\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on other Government initiatives to reduce tobacco consumption?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295e12bba78344b15b3cf2eb280a76fe5\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen two reports. One is a nationwide survey conducted recently, which shows that 74 percent of New Zealanders support smoke-free pubs and bars. The second report is one on the voting record for the smoke-free environments legislation, which both the Leader of the Opposition and their health spokespeople voted against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208831aec410b40e5b0078d84efae747e\u0022\u003ETe Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014M\u0101ori Affairs, Minister\u0027s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3eccb072591451c8409822082702152\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Does he stand by his translated statement in the House yesterday regarding Te Puni K\u014Dkiri that it is not right to say here whether his ministry is \u201Ca waste of time for M\u0101ori\u201D; if so, where does he believe Te Puni K\u014Dkiri should be held to account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022015db998391b40a3a8557e34f1ed7708\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022015db998391b40a3a8557e34f1ed7708\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by the interpretation of my statement. It is not right to say here that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is a waste of time for M\u0101ori. Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is held to account in a number of ways to this House through the parliamentary process, which includes financial reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e63d4f1644764df0b8b1fd0b2093e900\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his chief executive\u2019s position that the laws of New Zealand, passed by this very Parliament and enforced by the courts, are not prescriptive but rather merely a set of guidelines one can follow if one wishes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0ce2062be74d05a3e7cef6002ea483\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Part of that I agree with, but certainly I believe that people in glasshouses should not throw stones; that certain members who should abide by the legislation that binds this House to good governance go out and leak documents from financial review committees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245dad5614cd14360b1a4880ea5fa94eb\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: What will be the specific focus of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri over the next 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8bb9c01870f40e4a3276100029b96eb\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is on a roll. Certainly, I remember\u2014[Interruption] Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s M\u0101ori Business Facilitation Service\u2014and I can tell that member that this Minister of Health is going to be here for a long time\u2014won the Vero award for the best participation development between the private sector and the public sector, and we are going to do a lot more about that. We are about keeping M\u0101ori out of prison, about putting more M\u0101ori into jobs, and about helping M\u0101ori achieve a higher level of education. That is what we will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203baa93c1591478caf4f1cf62fb7864f\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker; t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare. Further to the Minister\u2019s answer yesterday, that monitoring reports were to be found in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s annual report to Parliament, and in light of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s 2005 annual report, which failed to provide any information on the output purchased monitoring of other State sector agency initiatives, can he tell this Parliament what monitoring reports Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has produced and where they are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84da109dbe44b9b974b34fef94c813b\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Te Puni K\u014Dkiri takes its monitoring and liaising role very seriously. Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is meeting its responsibilities under its legislation and it is doing that well\u2014and a whole lot more. The Office of the Controller and Auditor-General found in its audit for the last financial year that there were no significant legislative breaches, and it is noted that the office gave Te Puni K\u014Dkiri a \u201Cgood\u201D assessment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b378af2f6a9f45599816b6758ab9a944\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s answer to my supplementary question, which asked: \u201CDoes he stand by his chief executive\u2019s position that the laws of New Zealand, passed by this very Parliament and enforced by the courts, are not prescriptive but rather merely a set of guidelines one can follow if one wishes?\u201D, which part of that question does he agree with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5dea1432854baeb1d5e04d7ba3e3ea\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with most of it. But I want to talk about that former Minister when National had its time in Government, in the sense of the endless reports that that Government produced on negative statistics. We should look at what this Government is doing. It should not be about leaking and it should not be about members in this House who use it to ignore the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331ad526a4fe45c0bacb6d71f5ba645b\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Will he direct Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to monitor the health of nearly 50 percent of M\u0101ori children, some 93,423 children, who will benefit from the heavily promoted in-work payment because their parents are beneficiaries; or is the monitoring of the health and well-being of tangata whenua also a waste of time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b46e1afd03dc4cf09c41968e21e68565\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: It is a role that the Ministry of Health, steered by this Government, is managing very well. I assure the member that we have delivered reports, and supports, and those developments that we take very seriously. Working for Families is about that, and making sure that those parents and those children are being looked after is something this Government takes very, very seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac8a316029a8487eab74d4610d43fc31\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the annual report of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, which clearly shows that no monitoring of other State agencies was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022802a0f39fe9c4fda8ae4084869a00630\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that during his time as Minister in charge of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, M\u0101ori unemployment has halved and that the real waste of time for M\u0101ori people was the Minister from 1996 to 1998, Tau Henare, who promised to halve unemployment among M\u0101ori but instead increased it by 5 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f29fe9d737b14f1dbb0ea232cebe1e0c\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori unemployment has decreased by exactly 61 percent. M\u0101ori enjoy being in work, and they enjoy being paid. That member set up three commissions, wasted a lot of money, and got nothing done for M\u0101ori. We have done plenty for M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275e63ee95e3e4b538726579a5730e430\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that the recent financial review of his ministry found that it could not even answer questions about the delivery of its local level solutions programme; and when is he going to brief his ministry on what he is doing for his $180,000 per year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e0e9c2918c4c929c6816a2983da3a4\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: It is actually $195,000. I tell that member that we have moved on, and the issue is that we are going to focus on M\u0101ori potential. We are going to use those good deeds out of local level solutions that my friend Tariana Turia was involved in, and we are making better use of them\u2014more M\u0101ori in jobs, more M\u0101ori in high level education, and more M\u0101ori getting into asset development. It is great stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb7efea7e554f3b9b6c6edf6f4b21bc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister find in that financial review that one Tau Henare had yet paid back the $47 he owed the department as a beneficiary, which he said he would not be paying back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d517a33e2724800ad1cd9ca5ca8b28c\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I am not too sure about that. But what did concern me is that that member flouted the laws and the rules of this great bastion of governance. He did that. He leeched us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225685cc73d46f4c459af5f3e32b2971ee\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his support of Mita Ririnui\u2019s statement\u2014support he gave in this House on 14 March this year\u2014that advocacy of M\u0101ori is tiresome; if so, what new career is he looking at now that he is tired of advocating for his people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c2f5fb39fb4c3a98d9871857d29992\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that my colleague made such a statement. But if we are honest, and we are in this party, it is stressful at times\u2014[Interruption] Totally honest! Those members should ask Dr Sharples. They should ask Hone Harawira. It is very hard working with M\u0101ori. Tariana Turia will tell members that. So I do not know what people he is talking about, because our people are trying at times. But Mita Ririnui and I love them, and we will do our best while we are in Government to make sure they go forward, not backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022464b7abc36aa4f64b4d8afce86eab6f7\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the speech of Mita Ririnui\u2014the one where the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs actually supported him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022680bb02698d44e5a8433d6ede9e15a07\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e125f0846b048948f55c8fe15f1b957\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to make a personal statement relating to the accusations that the Hon Phil Goff just raised. I advise the House that some years ago, when this issue was raised, I did pay back the $47 to the then Minister of Social Welfare, Roger Sowry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3f6bffbe76a451aa35cf3fb0f2c3f7b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an extract from the Sunday Star-Times of December 2000, in which Tau Henare said he would not be paying back a social welfare payment of $47, a debt he had incurred as a beneficiary 20 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c6fa56ae814cc3898a994f41589fae\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125977bb137245e2b9f76a12f7cfff1d\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Just a matter of clarification, I actually said that when I was in the House. I was not in the House in 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089cd030018d41778624decbe7535dcb\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the role played by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri in promoting the ahu whenua awards and promoting M\u0101ori excellence in farming such as that showcased in Rotorua last Friday evening is work of value, and what feedback did Te Puni K\u014Dkiri receive from AgResearch, Federated Farmers, Dairy InSight, and the other key players in the agricultural industry in respect of M\u0101ori farming and M\u0101ori development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c116f25c77f4f95b14067c14b4a161c\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: It was all positive, and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has been involved in it. The big companies and the industry training organisations were there and they reaffirmed the 1,375 M\u0101ori who are working in the agricultural industry training organisations and whom we will move on, and up, and into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244620cbeecb44e51a86d0607d85f222b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c26c7d3d20f495293332f19fca9280a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is not in the guise of a supplementary question, I hope, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4aa0be9e0ca41d796643419f071d734\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not. I am extremely worried by the revelation in the House today that the Hon Parekura Horomia is getting a salary of $195,000. I am wondering whether we can seek leave to have him explain whether perhaps that is his salary, while other Ministers\u2019 salaries are $216,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226154bf2be2cc4ae7bde08457d410301d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order; nor was it a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f010ac230584d02bf899fb5ac72937d\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e93b8cb0322415986705df99bfef162\u0022\u003ERelease of Report\u2014Telecommunications Stocktake Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022c35ea468ea2e4761b26acff58fab6ae2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c35ea468ea2e4761b26acff58fab6ae2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from Gerry Brownlee seeking to debate under Standing Order 380 the release of a report on an investigation into the disclosure of a classified telecommunications stocktake review. The release of the report is a particular case of recent occurrence and I accept that it does require the immediate attention of the House. I therefore call on Mr Brownlee to move the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226d385bb9776c4e56917ccaa5c25651e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d385bb9776c4e56917ccaa5c25651e1\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. If members have ever wondered where Jim, Beryl, John, Hugh, the boss, Wally, and the lovely Raewyn went\u2014the characters from Gliding On\u2014they are all alive and well on the eighth floor of the Beehive in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. This is an outfit that this report shows is extremely cobwebbed and burdened down by the dust of bureaucracy in a way that shows absolutely no respect for very big decisions being made by the Government and the consequences they can have on New Zealanders. It is the inefficiency of that outfit that has led to some $2 billion being written off the value of New Zealand\u2019s largest public company. If people want to know what $2 billion can buy in Government, well, firstly, it is 200 years\u2019 worth of Saturday night\u2019s Lotto prize. Secondly, it is 20 percent of the annual increase in the health budget, a 30 percent annual increase in an education budget, more than 100 percent of what we could spend on defence, and it would give students in New Zealand up to 5 years of totally free tertiary education. So no one should diminish the consequences of this leak. The only questions that remain to be answered now are what was the motivation behind Michael Ryan\u2019s decision to steal and then pass on the document, and who was the hapless official in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet who carelessly tossed the document into the \u201Cfor shredding\u201D basket for all who passed by to see and read. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe need to know the answers to those questions, because the Government spin out there is that this action was somehow a mistake, and that Mr Ryan was just a lowly person working in the office who was not in any particularly important job, but was only a messenger who happened upon a document, sort of by mistake, and thought that it might be of some interest to his friend. The question is, how does a messenger inside the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet get to see a document like that? Copies of the document were delivered to all Ministers in envelopes, which were sealed and marked \u201Ccommercially sensitive\u201D, and numbered so that everyone knew who had them. But somehow one was carelessly tossed into a basket so that a messenger could come along, have a bit of a look, and think that his friend Mr Garty might be interested in reading it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think that it is interesting to look at the sequence of events the investigator managed to uncover. He first said that on Monday, 26 December, Mr Ryan saw an agenda for either a Cabinet meeting that day or for a policy committee meeting to be held the following Wednesday. I want to know why the investigator does not know which agenda that man saw. I ask why Mr Wevers and all the other clever people in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet cannot tell the investigator which document the messenger saw\u2014and how Mr Ryan was able to go out of the building, meet with his friend Mr Garty that evening and indicate there was a possibility that Mr Garty might receive some secret Government document for his own use, and mention to Mr Garty during the course of that conversation that Cabinet was to discuss a telecommunications stocktake at some point in the next couple of days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThat is a very serious matter. It is no good for the Prime Minister just to say that that person has acted dishonestly. We all know that. He did sign those documents of confidentiality and he did agree to the various other requirements of someone who works in that position, but the real question is, why is it that if a Minister receives something in a sealed envelope and has to treat it with a great deal of sensitivity, a messenger can just see it lying in a basket somewhere and decide to take it away? When Mr Ryan saw the telecommunications stocktake document, he simply picked it up, took it down to the messengers\u2019 room, stuffed it in his bag, and took it out of the building. Well, I would have thought that the Prime Minister\u2019s department might have had better security than that. I would have thought that it would be almost impossible for someone to leave that building with a confidential document hidden in his or her bag, so I want to know why there is some failure in the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ef5a823848049a28d1ed7d78c89147b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I do it every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c8c988aed54ef0ad36da28da033b77\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard says that he does it every day. Well, I say to Mr Mallard that we know he is a messenger for the Government, and, therefore, expendable, but he is a Minister and we would expect a Minister to be able to do that. We do not expect messengers to be able to secretly take a document with enormous commercial sensitivity attached to it and quietly cart it home, have a discussion with their mates about the possibility of getting a bit of free carpet, and then hand over a document to their mates and say: \u201CThis is for your eyes only. Please do not photocopy it. Please do not spread it about.\u201D\u2014which raises the question as to why Mr Ryan gave the document to his friend in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe issues around the way in which the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet operates are, I think, quite considerable. When I said before that there is a sort of Gliding On attitude up there, that attitude is all the way through this report. When we go further into the report, we find that the investigator was interested to discuss a policy inside the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet about the handling of classified documentation. It states: \u201C\u00A0\u2018Policy and privacy\u2019 information, for which compromise does not threaten the security of the nation, but rather the security or interests of individuals, groups, commercial entities, government business and the community.\u201D This was such a document. The question then is, how was it to be handled? We find a little bit of an indication in the report to civil servants\u2014which is why we want to know who the brains trust was who just tossed that document into the basket so that everybody could see it. We work to the \u201C\u00A0\u2018Need to retain\u201D principle. Only retain classified documents, especially circulated drafts, while they are in use. Once a classified document or draft is no longer needed, either return it to the originator or destroy it. \u2018Need to retain\u2019 principle should include: Keeping all holdings of loose classified material to a minimum; Annual reviews of holdings of loose classified material; How to return or dispose of unneeded classified material.\u201D So the department has processes; it just does not follow them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E The messenger up there has certainly been dishonest, but he is getting an overdue kicking when others up there have behaved in an equally sloppy manner. The department has a clear desk, clear screen, clear whiteboard policy. When a workstation is unattended, the desk must be clear of any classified information, and the computer must be accessible only through password entry. At the end of the business day all classified hard copies should be stored in locked storage. What we have now is a clear desk, clear screen, clear whiteboard, but full shredding tray, policy inside the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat is amazing is that it was Dr Prebble\u2019s agent who undertook this particular inquiry. I will divert for a minute and acquaint everyone with who Dr Prebble is. He is the man who was head of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet at the time the Prime Minister got herself in the cart over \u201Ccorngate\u201D. Members may recall the various obfuscations that went on at that time, and the months and months it took before we were able to find out the truth that related to that particular issue. Is it now surprising that we have the same Dr Prebble out there saying that we have got the little scrote who did it, and it will not happen again? I do not think so. I cannot help thinking that there is something bigger afoot here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMembers should imagine this messenger inside the department, having the time to wander round and have a casual read of the agenda for Cabinet the following day and of the policy committee meeting the following night. He might have spotted a bit on Telecom so decided to keep an eye on that for a day or two, then thought he could duck out of the office, go to the cycle club meeting that night and ask his mate Pete what he thinks of this Telecom stocktake and what it might be about, and if he is interested he will shoot back tomorrow and flog it and hand it over to him. It was quite easy and simple and no checks whatsoever were involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThose claims by Mr Prebble and Mr Wevers and others that they are completely innocent and that it was nothing to do with them, and their view that if someone is trying to be dishonest, what can one do, do not give us an acceptable answer. Where is the reasonable programme to tighten up security inside that department? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EUnderlying all this, of course, is that Labour members just do not care about the business community. It does not bother them. Dr Cullen is laughing, as he always laughs at the business community. It just does not bother them. Thousands of mum and dad investors in Telecom had their equity written off to a huge extent because of this leak. Dr Cullen said it would have happened anyway\u2014as if that is some sort of an excuse. The reality is that if Dr Cullen had released this in his Budget he would not have had the other threatening material in there. I doubt very much that he would have stood up in this House and said that the Government was about to split New Zealand\u2019s largest public company in two. I do not think he would have done that. When he tells us tomorrow that the energy companies will have the axe taken to them, that is fair enough. If that is what Dr Cullen wants to tell the House tomorrow, I think he now has an obligation to tell the House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe reality is that Parliament has a right to expect that an executive will conduct his or her business in a professional and caring manner. But there is no care for those investors out there who put small amounts of money on a weekly basis into managed funds and various other superannuation vehicles. The Government\u2019s answer is that those people should not worry about that but leave it all to the Government, which will do it for them. Can members guess what one of the biggest sellers of Telecom shares has been in recent days? It is the Government\u2019s superannuation fund. Members should tell me that there is not a bit of Chinese whispering going on between the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, the Minister of Finance\u2019s office, and the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation. If they are wrong, Dr Cullen should stand up and say so. The evidence is very clear when we look at the trading that goes on in the stock market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo the question comes back to the guy who has so far not been named, and has so far apparently been exonerated. Members should think about this man, who receives a highly sensitive document in an envelope that has a number on it. He initials it, opens the seal, gets out the document, does his high-powered analysis of it, and then says: \u201COK, fair enough, I\u2019ll get rid of that. I\u2019ll biff it over here.\u201D There are passers-by coming through as in a bus station, having a quick flick through and seeing whether any of their mates want to see it. But the man is exonerated. The State Services Commission has stated: \u201CI wish to make it clear that this recommendation should not be seen as in any way a criticism of the actions of the relevant Advisor\u2026\u201D. Who is the relevant advisor? The commission should just give us his name. The commission continues: \u201C\u2026 in placing the document in his confidential \u2018shredding tray\u2019 for disposal without enveloping it. It was clear from the evidence\u201D that the investigator received that this advisor \u201Cwas perhaps more acutely aware than anyone as to the sensitivity of this document \u2026\u201D. So if this advisor is so acutely aware of the sensitivity of the document, and still tossed it into a bin for all to see, what the heck are the rest of them doing? The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet comes out of this situation looking very shaky and shoddy, and we need some answers about how its security is being tidied up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e28a30c0a477472f8293061b010b9087\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e28a30c0a477472f8293061b010b9087\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E A number of significant facts have emerged in this debate. The first is that the debate was not led by Dr Don T Brash, who was missing in action again during the supposed big king-hit on the Government. Dr Brash knows that every time he comes into this House and gives a speech, he dies a little. Of course, every time he goes out of the House he dies a lot. We know that only too well. The real issue today is why Mr Brownlee was put up to mount the massive king-hit on the Government. I think he answered that question. Today, with that speech, Don Brash ensured that Gerry Brownlee killed his chances of becoming the Leader of the Opposition. One of my colleagues asked why Dr Brash did not give that speech. The answer is that even Dr Brash is not as stupid as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe only significant thing that Mr Brownlee said in that speech was that he could not help thinking. We have to give him high marks for trying, but not for thinking, during that speech. I was waiting for the big king-hit question of whether the tray was plastic or metal, and for the request for the Government to come clean and tell members the truth about that. The truth, of course, is that the Government has done much better at finding its leak than National has done at finding its leaks, which are going on all over place\u2014and, I am told, there are more to come in the very near future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee\u2019s speech did show that the Opposition has nothing to say on this issue. Mr Brownlee ran out of material in the first 4 minutes of his speech, and kept going round and round in circles\u2014a bit like Rodney Hide before he lost weight. The National members thought they should apply for a debate, but having applied for it and got it, they did not know what to say during the debate. Mr Brownlee had nothing to say in that speech. Mr Brownlee\u2019s one and only suggestion related to how somebody could get out of the building with a document. He said that surely there should be security to stop people from getting out of the Beehive with, potentially, a document on their person. In other words, every time somebody other than a Minister goes in and out of the Beehive, he or she should be searched. Well, that would include members of almost every minor party in the House, because they go through the Beehive to get to this Chamber. It would include every ministerial staffer, and it would include parliamentary messengers and members of the press gallery. I know that Mr Brownlee lusts after being able to search one or two members of the press gallery himself\u2014and why not\u2014but the fact is that we cannot search everybody who goes in and out of that building every time they go in and out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EGoodness me, that suggestion comes from the party that complains about compliance costs! Well, what a compliance cost it would be on the Government if it had to search everybody who goes in and out of the building, including Mr Brownlee. The truth is that we could not find anybody who would volunteer to do a body search on Mr Brownlee\u2014or, indeed, anybody who is big enough to do a body search on Mr Brownlee, should we have to do that. That is the reality. That is all that National members could suggest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat are the facts? The facts are actually simple. One employee who was in a position of trust committed, despite having gone through psychological vetting and police vetting, a breach of that trust. Mr Brownlee asked what the employee\u2019s motivation was. His motivation is not terribly relevant. Apparently, he was trying to help a friend, and, apparently, the friend was rather embarrassed by the help, as, no doubt, any of us would be in a similar situation. The friend, on the evening, had drunk rather too much wine to be able to read the document. Once he did read it, he knew there was a problem and promptly took the appropriate action in respect of that problem. That is it. That is the story from start to finish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e8d201e06e44e82a604d41ded49f85c\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adc596ff5b77449bac75312af8120026\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lockwood Smith says: \u201CNo!\u201D. He thinks there must be, if I can use such a phrase, a deep, dark secret here that people have not yet learnt about. I tell Dr Smith that no, that is it in this case. That is all there is to go on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae1ac1139da945e3818c14cc47c2a276\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: Lockwood wants the body search. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4bc4e1f3d084c238b8bca54a8f74370\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Lockwood wants the body search? No, no, no, that is not true. That is not fair to Dr Lockwood Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat else do we have? The issue is that the procedures that were followed are those that have been followed for many, many years. The alternative, presumably, is that we have big green waste bins in our offices that are locked and have little holes in the top so that we can stick everything in, as some people do. The problem is that we still have to take the documents out at some point and put them in the shredder. Whoever does that job is the potential point of weakness. As Mr Brownlee ought to know, it is not possible to completely stop somebody from leaking. Some people have been inclined to suggest that Mr Brownlee has been the source of some of the leaks within the National Party over recent months. The fact is that those leaks seem to incriminate Dr Brash, and certainly seem to incriminate Mr Key\u2014or some of the ones that will come out a bit later will\u2014but do not incriminate Mr Brownlee. So one can perhaps see some support for that particular thesis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe fact is that one person in a position of trust, who had worked for the Government for 30 years with no problems at all in all of that previous employment, seems to have suffered a mad rush of blood to the head and dishonestly decided to help a mate\u2014a mate who could not even have been helped in that case, because as an employee of Telecom he was actually debarred from selling his shares at that point, because Telecom\u2019s annual report was due and this incident occurred during the time period when he could not take any action. That is the entire story. That is the urgent matter of public importance on which Mr Brownlee thinks he can pull down the Government. All he did was to pull down himself. The way is now clear for Mr Key and Mr English to have it out in the fight for life within the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u0022492d6d14298a439ba7f1292d00f11e10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022492d6d14298a439ba7f1292d00f11e10\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It appears in this particular case that the Opposition doth protest too much. One of the points that Opposition members have been making is that because of this leak $1.8 billion was wiped off Telecom\u2019s share value. In fact, the $1.8 billion would have been wiped off the moment that Dr Cullen announced on Thursday exactly the same Government policy. All that shows is that Telecom is overvalued by $1.8 billion. The question has to be asked as to why it is overvalued by $1.8 billion. It is because Telecom is\u2014or has been up until this point in time\u2014a monopoly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThe real scandal in this whole saga surrounds, in fact, a certain Roderick Deane, who was one of the architects of the so-called market economy, which was to go through not only business but also State services and State delivery of services. That architect took over a State monopoly and turned it into a private monopoly, and then that particular company behaved in a way, purely and simply, so as to retain its monopoly. The whole raison d\u2019\u1EC7tre of Telecom was to retain its monopoly. Someone described Telecom as a legal company with a telecommunications company attached to it. On the way, Mr Deane picked up $2 million a year and received bonus shares, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at the series of events, because it is quite clear from the report that this leak came about as a result of misplaced friendship. I think we need to go through the series of events. Mr Ryan has admitted to the fact that he was carrying out his duties as a messenger with the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. On Monday, 1 May his role involved assisting in the Cabinet Office with the distribution of the necessary mail and papers, and he happened to see an agenda, which was either for the Cabinet meeting that day or for the policy committee meeting to be held on Wednesday. He noticed that on the agenda was a consideration of the telecommunications review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EObviously, as the report shows, that evening, after Mr Ryan went back home, he happened to go to his friend\u2019s place to look at some carpet. His friend was not there when he first arrived. Mr Garty came later, and Mr Ryan happened to mention to Mr Garty that he had seen that item on the agenda. The very next day, Mr Ryan, once again undertaking his normal duties, was making deliveries of documentation. One of those duties included removing confidential documents intended for shredding from trays designated for that purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EWe want to follow through the course of events from here. Mr Ryan saw the telecommunications stocktake document in a tray in an office shared by three policy advisory group advisers on the eighth floor of the Beehive. He took the document to the messengers\u2019 room. I think we need to reflect on this. In the messengers\u2019 room is the shredder. In the very room where the messengers keep their bags there is also the shredder. The report does recommend that we need to look at the systems. We certainly would ask whether it makes any sense to put the shredder in the room where the messengers have all their bags and their gear. In this particular case, of course, Mr Ryan put the document into his bag and took it home, and later that evening gave it to Mr Garty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E The report states: \u201CThe employee\u201D\u2014that is, Mr Garty\u2014\u201Cand ultimately Telecom were passive recipients of the document, having taken no action to seek it or to encourage Mr Ryan to provide it.\u201D That is true. Mr Garty made photocopies of the document at his own home, then delivered the document back to Mr Ryan the next day so that it could be brought back into the Beehive. One might ask whether Mr Garty\u2019s behaviour at that particular stage met the integrity test. In this particular case the report made the comment\u2014I think accurately\u2014that from the moment Mr Garty saw the document he was in fact compromised. The photocopying could be justified in the sense that he immediately took it to Telecom\u2019s legal advisers and said: \u201CListen, this is what I\u2019ve been shown. What do you make of it?\u201D. In fairness to Telecom, it immediately made contact with Mr Cunliffe\u2019s office and said\u2014[Interruption] I am actually saying, in fairness to Telecom, that it immediately made contact with the executive, said it had the papers, and asked what it was supposed to do about them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203032bab52504dc6b2af0bc4d705c699\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: And what did they say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7bd89f1b4af4bcbb078fa2777129767\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY\u003C/span\u003E: The executive probably said: \u201CWe\u2019ve got some urgent messages. We\u2019d better run across and see Winston Peters, because we\u2019ve got to make this announcement some time today.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EI want to make a personal comment. As telecommunications spokesperson for New Zealand First I was rung the next day by someone who asked, given that the confidence and supply agreement states everything should be shared, whether we had seen the paper. Thank God I was able to say that I had never seen sight nor sign of that particular paper, so it was not me who had leaked it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0e4887c556c42689beef9d4dd3d3af0\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: It was posted on the Internet that day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c481e9d967bf4ce0a63f407a200b8ab3\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY\u003C/span\u003E: I did not get it until the next day\u2014I did not have it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EAs I said, the report recommends that some of the systems need to be looked at. One of the things that has not yet been spoken about is that during the whole review process people tried to gather up all the copies of that particular document. It is noted in the report: \u201Con 11 May 2006 I was advised that a further copy of this paper had been located behind a photocopier located in Hon. Mr Cunliffe\u2019s office.\u201D The report goes on to state: \u201CIt is clear to me that this additional copy found fell behind the photocopier by accident during the rush to provide the media with copies on that date.\u201D\u2014on 3 May. But that remark raises some very serious questions about the security of vital documents, if they can fall behind photocopiers in such a manner in a Minister\u2019s office. Certainly, there are some disturbing features of this particular matter, and lessons have to be learnt from it. There is no doubt that it was a very serious leak and a very serious security breach. However, I believe that the report has got it accurately\u2014the leak stemmed from misplaced loyalty rather than from any criminal intent to try to beat the stock market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EIn terms of some of the other systems, the report goes into, for example, the employment processes that are carried out by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. Certainly, there is absolutely thorough scrutiny of the employees there, and that includes a psychological report. So that particular area is certainly tied up, as are the requirements under employment law, etc., to make sure employees\u2019 contracts include the requirements to maintain the confidentiality of all the documents they see. As the report states, at that level there is certainly robustness. Some systematic problems need to be looked at in order to ensure that there are not repeats of this particular leak. Everyone would recognise that the situation is very, very serious, but it is wrong to protest and say it demonstrates serious malfunctioning on the eighth and ninth floors; the report shows that the problem was one of misplaced friendship involving a person who had passed all the tests and jumped all the hurdles to get a job as a messenger in that particular department. In fact, in this case, the person himself knows he made an extremely foolish mistake by taking the action he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022427afadff82f4aed8fcd9203b240f2ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022427afadff82f4aed8fcd9203b240f2ae\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E This debate has focused, so far, on the matters that were investigated by the State Services Commission. But, of course, the debate has raised some much wider issues. I want to ask the Government today why Minister Cunliffe, who is at the centre of these goings on\u2014and of policy decisions\u2014still holds his job. The measure for whether Mr Cunliffe should still be in his job is the way the Government dealt with David Parker\u2014his bench mate. Why is David Cunliffe still sitting in his seat, with his warrants, when, by this stage of a similar set of proceedings, David Parker was not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELet us look at the circumstances that David Cunliffe has got himself into. He did an interview yesterday\u2014a wide-ranging interview, we are told, and a long one\u2014in which he made comments regarding Telecom\u2019s dividend and investment policy. Those comments were broadcast on the Bloomberg News wire, which is a subscriber-only wholesale news service for participants in the money market. As a result of those comments, the volume of Telecom shares being traded went way up, and the price went down. Members should ask themselves why that happened. It happened because David Cunliffe is the ultimate insider. He is the Minister who has held over Telecom the threat that he will break that business up into wholesale and retail components, if it does not meet the Government\u2019s objectives. So when the person who has that power says to the market that Telecom should change its dividend policy, of course the market will take notice. The Securities Commission has taken that seriously, and, certainly, market participants have, because it said today that it had received a referral from the New Zealand Exchange\u2014not from some mum and dad shareholder of no particular legal account\u2014relating to comments reportedly made by the Minister of Communications, David Cunliffe. The commission is considering the referral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELet us just remind ourselves what has happened here. Someone who was certainly an insider has made comments that may break the law. Those comments have been referred by one statutory body, the New Zealand Exchange, which has regulatory experience, to another statutory body, the Securities Commission. The Securities Commission is considering whether to investigate. In my view, it has no choice. It investigated comments made by Helen Clark in 2001 regarding Air New Zealand shares. Of course, it had to do so, particularly because the case involved a Government Minister who was privy to all sorts of information that no other shareholder could get. As my colleague has pointed out, this situation is much more serious than the comments that were made about Air New Zealand. There was a significant drop in Telecom\u2019s share price, and there is ongoing controversy about the bumbling way the Government has handled the whole debacle of the leak in the announcement of its unbundling policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ELet us line up that seriousness alongside David Parker\u2019s case. David Parker was stood down because allegations had been made that he had committed minor breaches of the Companies Act. He stood down. He admitted at the time that he believed he might have breached the Companies Act\u2014because no one else was sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232ee05a6eca545908f689a203564aed2\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It was pretty honourable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7b4227a71f34f5fad2a8cf0eb6b18b2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It was pretty honourable. He said he had done the deed that he was alleged to have done. In David Cunliffe\u2019s case there is absolutely no doubt that he did the deed. He has confirmed he made the statements. In David Parker\u2019s case it is unclear whether the Companies Office had announced an investigation before he resigned. I believe he resigned before the investigation was publicly announced. Here we have another Minister, who has breached a much more serious law in a much more public and serious way, and who has much greater responsibility. David Parker had a responsibility to his shareholders and, as an individual, to keep the law. But it was not his responsibility as a Minister that he breached. David Cunliffe has used his ministerial position, knowledge, power, and influence and made a statement, which may break the law\u2014and he is still sitting in his seat. It will be subject to investigation by the Securities Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESo Helen Clark needs to tell us why that is the case. If David Parker went, for a less serious offence related to his behaviour as a private individual, why is David Cunliffe keeping his job, for a much more serious potential breach of the law, which he committed in his capacity as a Minister? How can Parliament and Telecom shareholders be reassured that he will not go out tomorrow and do it again? He lost a copy of the paper, behind the photocopier. And now he has made a statement that is being investigated by the Securities Commission. That is a serious matter. What protection does the financial market have against that man?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8da3d48925447f2912cec826bcdecb3\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: None!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fffb119f881432db2399707010be904\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: None, because he is still in his job, still getting all the insider information, of which he has shown himself to be an unreliable custodian. Yet the Government is still giving it to him. He may be getting information right now\u2014before he came into the House for question time, perhaps\u2014that the Government is going to split Telecom up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0f29443c8d472896e0f1b5d4e80e9c\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Who knows?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225095a439398d485390f1918ed1834750\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Who knows? Well, everyone may know, because David Cunliffe might go and tell everyone. He cannot be trusted. His breach is as bad as the breach by the messenger. It is as bad. David Cunliffe is the custodian of confidential information, and he has broken the trust put in him. Is that not what the messenger did, and look what happened to him? David Parker was not a custodian of public or commercially sensitive information\u2014not at all. Yet he stood down, because the trust in him was seen to be broken, and he could not be restored to his position until he had been investigated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022765e7e9b520046b99ef313df38eaf899\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: He lost his position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc774a6f45049e6b257ae24f2e94ba2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, he did not go back to be Attorney-General. He never went back. That is the threshold Helen Clark set. David Parker was found to be not guilty, but he was not put back into the position where he had to be trusted to keep the law. That is the standard, and I might say to Mr Cunliffe that it is a high standard and you have breached that standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbc2eb834f804bae901edee63980e97f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229068205443d64bbfa4aacc68eb38cda2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We are asking Helen Clark to explain why she is not applying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab9132cb00f0481ab45a638c769cc51d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That senior member opposite is getting carried away, but he cannot accuse you of anything, let alone what he just accused you of. He should withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a50d79f3664797bc573c44725cbd52\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I had drawn that to his attention when I called \u201COrder!\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ea99c2fbf434ccaa34e5045aab85a18\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. David Cunliffe is the custodian of some of the most commercially sensitive, explosive information that the Government has. We know because, regardless of the leak, the decision made by him and Cabinet has wiped $2.5 billion off the Telecom share price. That is how sensitive the information is. And he has gone and used that position to give information and a point of view to the market, which it has to take notice of because he is the Minister who is the primary decision maker. Now, thousands of New Zealand mum and dad shareholders, and hundreds of thousands of people who have their retirement savings in shares in Telecom, have to wait and hope that that man will keep his mouth shut. Helen Clark says it is OK that we wait and hope that David Cunliffe can keep his mouth shut. Well, he cannot. He has shown that and he should go. David Parker went. David Cunliffe must go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00227f1dd5fe5eec4744a649641304842ad1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f1dd5fe5eec4744a649641304842ad1\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E In the limited time I have available to me, I want to cover three broad areas of the case\u2014in ascending order of importance, in my view. The first relates to Mr Ryan and his behaviour, which can be described only as incalculably dishonest, foolish, and displaying an appalling lack of judgment. There is no way that his continued employment, in those circumstances, can be justified. The report of the State Services Commissioner states all it needs to on that matter. That is the easiest part of the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe second issue I want to deal with relates to the practices and procedures within the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and the questions that in my mind remain unanswered as to how Mr Ryan had such free access to the documents, and how he was able to act in the way he did. That matter, in my judgment, requires further investigation by both the State Services Commissioner and the chief executive of the department, in the first instance, and, if need be, at some point in the future, it may well require the attention of the House. But due process has to be followed, and then we can make that decision at a subsequent stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMr English has touched on what I regard as being the most important aspect of the case, and that is the fact that nearly $2 billion of shareholders\u2019 investments in Telecom was wiped by the premature release of the announcement, and associated circumstances. Many, many investors in this country are reeling from that shock. I might interpolate that those investors may well have faced a similar situation anyway, had the original plan proceeded and the measures simply been announced on Budget night. But that interpolation is speculative, at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe question that requires the proper attention of the Securities Commission relates to the circumstances of the leak and the impact it had on the market, and also the questions that have arisen in the last 24 hours. I appreciate the temptation to play politics with this issue, and that is understandable in the circumstances. But given that the well-being and good judgment of many New Zealand shareholders have been seriously put at risk by this action, I think it is time to set aside the political differences and concentrate on getting to the bottom of how it happened, what actions caused it to happen, and, then, where the accountability and responsibility must lie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ESo it seems to me that we have the following path ahead of us. Firstly, in terms of Mr Ryan, the future is clear\u2014he does not have one. He is gone, or is about to go. Secondly, in terms of the practices and procedures that gave rise to the circumstances of his behaviour, there is, clearly, further investigative work to be done by both the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the State Services Commission, to ensure that procedures are put in place to make sure there can be no repetition of the action. Thirdly, there needs to be some form of investigation by the Securities Commission of the wider issues involved, to ensure that the shock to the New Zealand economy that this measure has induced can at least be mitigated and, hopefully, prevented from occurring again in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe suggestion that we should, at this point, embark upon a parliamentary inquiry is not one I am attracted to, for the simple reason that it would cut across procedures that are already under way. It is a perfectly appropriate call for Parliament to determine that it wishes to inquire into the case, if, at the end of that procedure of inquiry, it remains unsatisfied. But to step in arbitrarily at this point would be premature. I believe that pressure needs to be placed on the agencies I have identified, to carry out their work in a timely manner, and to report to Parliament accordingly. Then we can make considered and rational decisions that are in the interests of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis case has been a most unfortunate development. I think it is without precedent in our modern history. It is not something we ought to encourage or laud, and, frankly, there are some unanswered questions on both sides of the issue that further inquiry, in the manner I have outlined, would help to address. But to rush in now, in the way that some members are suggesting, simply reminds me of the old proverb about fools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022b321098106a64150949797cb78d56be9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b321098106a64150949797cb78d56be9\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E A number of points need to be made on this issue. The first one, which struck me as quite amazing, was the comment by the Prime Minister that it has been like this for a long time. I point out to the Prime Minister that when she left office in 1990 and I became a Minister, technologies did not exist that now exist that enable people to smuggle documents. For example, people can now take a photo of a document with a cellphone as they walk down a corridor and email it off. So even if someone was searched for the physical document as he or she left the building\u2014even if a full body cavity search was done\u2014with today\u2019s technology the document could already have been sent out. For the Prime Minister to say that it has always been like this is a nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EAs those new technologies evolve\u2014as cellphones come with cameras on board, as wireless Bluetooth communications can fire it off to a computer in the building next door and so on, or as Wi-Fi networks can image a document through a scanner then fire it off around a network\u2014to say that it is the way it has always been with the paper envelope, and the way one opens the envelope and leaves it in the in-tray, is wrong. It is just a nonsense. The Prime Minister had better get up to date with the way the new world functions and put some proper mechanisms in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EIn this case it was a very old-technology steal of some property. It was done by a dishonest messenger. But if it can sit around in a tray, if it can go into a room for shredding where the messengers keep their bags, let me tell the House that it could easily have gone out and been flying on the Internet within seconds with today\u2019s technology. It will not do any more to say: \u201COh, but 15 years ago that\u2019s how it used to be, so that\u2019s how it should still be.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWe could take a leaf out of the book of a particular person\u2014I refer to the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b5b2cb17d8f48c196ddef8fbd849e48\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffefe81df39a4f119edfaeafbf9efa17\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague Dr Lockwood Smith, who served in Cabinet with Winston Peters, will know that he had a mechanism for keeping Cabinet papers so confidential and secret that it worked a treat. I suggest Ministers take a leaf out of Mr Peters\u2019 book. His mechanism was never to open his own Cabinet papers and read them. That is what he did. He used to come to Cabinet with the envelopes still sealed. He used to show up regular as clockwork with them still sealed. A lot of people would say: \u201CWhat, did he read them while he was at Cabinet?\u201D. No, he used to sleep while he was at Cabinet. On a regular basis Jim Bolger would have to give him a shake and wake him up. But Mr Peters had confidentiality absolutely nailed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe one thing I used to get in trouble for with my wife on a Sunday was when she would come into the living room at some stage and go berko about those little wee plastic tails that come off the zipper of little plastic envelopes. They form into a little pig\u2019s tail curl when they are ripped off, and I was untidy enough to drop a few around the living room. She would always go crook about them and say: \u201CCan you please be a bit tidier when you do the zipper on your little plastic envelope.\u201D But we never had that problem with Mr Winston Peters. The little pig\u2019s tail curl was still in place even when the Cabinet meeting was over and declared finished. I suggest that is a very good precedent for other Ministers. David Cunliffe should take a note out of Winston Peters\u2019 book on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022619308f976544767994bd46fff6db21e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What about the fake emails?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b550846a04a4fe49b173648fd88490c\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: What about the fake emails he now has, that he has created? However, I want to get into another area in relation to the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a3976f7c78f4d5daf4c6b8ffad817d8\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Is that the best the member can do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8bfc743a954343b72833ed2999d7b7\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not the best I can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246815796dc6c4b0583a2fb2aa26c774a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member suggesting the email is fake?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb3e741d9334ac280930f0af14a9dab\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am suggesting that some of the emails may be fake. We can soon get a forensic person to look at them if Mr Peters is prepared to expose their electronic image, but he will not do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI want to go back to the Prime Minister because she has said some really interesting things in recent months. When there was the David Benson-Pope issue about the tennis ball and the prima facie case, and when there was the David Parker incident, the Prime Minister came to this House and said publicly on a number of occasions that she was appalled at what politics had become. She said that it had become a personal attack, a vendetta against people, especially Ministers, and that the dreadful Opposition was now dragging in the gutter and taking out people because of personal animosities or for cheap political point-scoring. Oh, really? Is that how politics has become? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI want to recount a particular example that happened to me. It was fully investigated by the State Services Commission, and I want to give the answer to that. As a Minister I once flew back from the United States on a Boeing 747 and as we landed at Auckland the hostess tapped me on the shoulder and said: \u201CExcuse me, Mr Williamson, we have had an electronic communication to the pilot. They want you to be at the Cabinet meeting in Wellington on time because you have got papers. So we would ask you to come to the door of the plane first and we will take you off the plane first and take you downstairs to a security car that will take you across the tarmac to a domestic flight and that will get you there.\u201D The plane was late in; we were supposed to be in at 6 o\u2019clock in the morning and it was getting towards 8 o\u2019clock. I said: \u201CWell is that OK?\u201D, and they said: \u201CYes, that\u2019s fine.\u201D I asked about my immigration and passport and they said I needed to leave all that, and my bags, with my staff and that just I should go with them. This all came out in the inquiry, and it is verbatim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ESo when the plane pulled up at the door I did exactly what I was asked. I stood up, the hostess said: \u201CCome this way.\u201D, they opened the door, I went through the door, downstairs with the men in their little bobby socks and their shorts, we raced across the tarmac, I jumped on the 8 o\u2019clock Ansett flight on time, flew to Wellington, and I got to Cabinet. At 11 o\u2019clock my press secretary was outside Cabinet saying: \u201CYou had better come out, you are in huge trouble. Jim Sutton has called for your resignation and Helen Clark has done the same.\u201D It was all on. If members do not believe me they should come up to my office right now and they will see a cartoon from the paper. It is of Helen Clark with a big spray can and me walking across the tarmac, and she is going to get me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWhat was the accusation? It was that I had somehow refused to be sprayed while everyone else had to be, and that I had demanded to be taken off the plane early. I said to my press secretary: \u201CWell, that\u2019s just a nonsense, they don\u2019t spray the planes any more. So that is just ridiculous.\u201D It turned out that there had been a problem, but I was unaware of it. It turned out that when the little men in their bobby socks checked the documentation for the United Airlines plane I was on, they found that the bombs that sit in the air conditioning had expired and they needed to close the door, call some people up with some spray cans, and walk up and down the aisle and spray it. I did not know that. They did not know that at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EBut what did Helen Clark do? Day after day she said that the Minister of Transport should be sacked, it was an outrage, and his behaviour was appalling. A State Services Commission inquiry was finally called for; Jim Bolger had no option but to call for it. The State Services Commission interviewed the people at the airport and they said: \u201CNo, we made the decision to call the pilot and get Mr Williamson off early. No, we asked him to come off. No, he did what he said. Yes, he came to Wellington.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260cd9b61bffb4120a6a0fb9a1fffbcc1\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s all this got to do with it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d48f19a25ec4acca141982d9fbd33e9\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am saying this because the Prime Minister says how ugly and how dreadful politics has become when the Opposition raises matters in relation to poor Ministers like David Benson-Pope\u2014\u201CCaptain Tennis Ball\u201D, who shoves stuff in kids\u2019 gobs\u2014we are being grubby; we are in the gutter. When we raise stuff about breaches of the Companies Act by David Parker, she says we are being grubby and awful. When we raise stuff about Mr Cunliffe knocking $200 million off the Telecom share price, we are being grubby. But, oh no, members opposite can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cccd137284134e9e858d1b15cdcaac60\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I listened with care when the Speaker read out the letter that caused this debate. I even went to the Table to reread it to make sure I had heard it right. I have sat through one member opposite going on and on about things that have nothing to do with that letter, and now we have another one. I really, really invite you, Mr Assistant Speaker, to ask the member to say something vaguely related to the letter that caused the debate to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fde23e9f4c94cd18348863ecd0374c8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his contribution. It is a rather robust debate and I have heard exchanges from both sides. But I ask the member to speak to the letter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022220daa24a1b349cd91a64ae2d7c5f8dc\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to answer Mr Burton on that. This is about ministerial behaviour and accountability. I do not feel good about bringing up something from my past, even though the State Services Commission completely exonerated me. The reason I bring it up is that as soon as we start raising anything about Ministers\u2019 behaviour in this Government, the Prime Minister is on the front foot, saying: \u201CThis is the disgraceful Opposition. All they want to do is politicise these issues.\u201D But she never hesitated. She tried to take people out. I have the newspaper clippings from that incident if Annette King does not remember it. Helen Clark said that the Minister of Transport should resign for leaving his plane early and refusing to be sprayed. She said that my behaviour was reprehensible. Actually it turned out that I had done nothing wrong and was completely cleared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EBut in this case David Cunliffe\u2019s behaviour is reprehensible. It is appalling. His statement about trade-offs\u2014the dividends versus capital expenditure of a private company\u2014is absolutely beneath contempt, yet he is still in his job. Helen Clark will not be calling for his resignation. I am listening\u2014but I still cannot hear her doing it. Someone innocently gets off a plane when asked, and has to resign. But when someone takes $2 billion off a company with his stupid Cabinet paper and the management of it, and then decides that was not enough and takes another $200 million off the value by going out and making a reckless statement about dividends versus the capital expenditure programme, I say this whole House should be listening for Helen Clark to call for his resignation. I cannot hear it. What I can hear is the fluttering of the wings as the chickens come home to roost for this Government; that is what I can hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002284b3cb06778a45ea9fd06d03ab714805\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284b3cb06778a45ea9fd06d03ab714805\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E I recall last week that the National Party raised a point of order about Winston Peters being given a supplementary question by the Government. Gerry Brownlee got to his feet in his usual fashion, and huffed and puffed about how terrible it was that Winston Peters had been given a supplementary question by Labour. I point out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2111a5b4724a7487b9c1994c780a74\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Following on from the comments made by the Hon Mark Burton, the Deputy Leader of the House, a few minutes ago about members\u2019 speeches being relevant to the bill, I seek leave to table the letter supplied to the Speaker today in order that the Hon Annette King may understand what the debate is about this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210f2a0ae51354fe6a719109caa64544c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is quite entitled to seek leave to table that. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. I just say leeway is given in replying to a speech. I refer members to Speakers\u2019 ruling 44/3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8fe092a06349ac91bdbff82f943a77\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a deliberate attempt to break up my speech. I would like to be given the opportunity and the time to start my speech again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8aa68566804eb5a810c7f8a648a0b0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that I will certainly take that into consideration, but I have said to Mr Brownlee that you have leeway in replying to the speech. Frivolous interjections, of course, are out of order and can actually lead to disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226d3ba92b2394762bcee9ceea3a62853\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, Gerry Brownlee wanted to interrupt my speech because it showed a big dose of hypocrisy. He raised the issue of Winston Peters being given a speaking spot by Labour this week, but did not own up to the fact that National had received a speaking spot from ACT this week. So it was OK for National to receive a speaking spot from ACT, but it was not OK for Labour to give one to New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI say it is quite all right to give speaking spots to whomever one wants to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022913ee685107c4bc4829434b47bfb26d5\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not appropriate for members to refer to one another by the \u201Ch\u201D word, which we are not allowed to use. I want to make it clear that National has not done a deal with the ACT party; it simply took a spot that was going. If the Labour members assume that the National members have done a deal with ACT, it is too bad for them. They should have more of their own speakers here in the Chamber. Debates are not something they want to participate in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290774042eef54275a0666ec4476bf33d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not consider that to be a point of order; it is a debatable issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298e6b463f47a4ba2bdb65772e461312d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Labour members are entitled to two speeches, and we are taking our two speeches. What Gerry Brownlee did not like was the fact that last week there was an act of hypocrisy in this House when National members raised that issue. I want to point that out. I do not care a hoot whom they get their speaking spots from; that is called cooperation in Parliament. But when those sorts of issues are raised in Parliament, and issues like this so-called urgent debate are raised, it makes this place a laughing stock. The public are not stupid; they hear what is said one week and changed the next week. They hear about the urgency of this debate requested in the letter, and then find the leak is not discussed at all in the debate. I think the public will be very disappointed with this debate today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ELet us look at the contributions. I have a right to go through some of the points that have been made. First of all, why was this urgent debate not led off by Don Brash? He is the leader of the National Party. When there is an issue that is very urgent and important, one would normally put one\u2019s leader up to lead off the urgent debate. That is certainly what Helen Clark did while in Opposition, but Don Brash does not do that. I cannot remember many urgent debates that he has led off in this Parliament since National has been in Opposition. I know why Don Brash did not lead off the debate. First of all, he is embarrassed to lead off a debate on a leak. He could not lead off a debate on a leak, because the biggest leak in this Parliament came out of his office. When did that happen? It happened in about August last year. About 7 or 8 months ago there was a leak from the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s office. Someone got into his emails and sent them around the country, particularly to Winston Peters. He would not have solicited them, but he did receive them, and there was not one email but several of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESo about 8 months ago, the biggest leak out of a member of Parliament\u2019s office took place from the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s office. Did we hear about that leak being resolved? It is not resolved today. National members still do not know who is responsible for that leak\u2014or do they? Let us ask that question. One has to ask oneself whether the reason they have not pursued that leak out of the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s office could well be that they know it was Gerry Brownlee, Bill English, or John Key who leaked those emails. Why do they want to cover that up? Because it means what everybody in New Zealand knows: there is a plan to get rid of their leader. So National would not want people to know about its inquiries into that leak. I do not blame National members for leaking the emails; I would want to get rid of Don Brash too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EHowever, let us be honest about why National wanted to have this debate today. It is not about the leak at all. The National members wanted to have this debate because they do not want to debate the real issue that this incident came out of. They do not want to debate this Government\u2019s approach to telecommunications. They failed to address the issue of telecommunications in their 9 long years in Government; they did not have the internal fortitude to address that issue. So what did they do? They wanted to have a debate on the leak, and then they did not talk about the leak. Gerry Brownlee got up. He was full of puffery and blatherskite. I agree with you, Mr Speaker; this is a robust debate. It is a robust debate all right from the National members, signifying absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee attacked Mark Prebble, the State Services Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d413aaae6824f48a93abfc75cce2448\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce589999b8f84d6c82de81dd612d4cfd\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, he did. He attacked Mark Prebble, but forgot one important point: Mark Prebble was the head of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet under the National Government, when the same rules that apply today applied to the messengers who worked for National. Of course, the procedures and rules that applied when National members were in Government, which apply today, were all right then, but suddenly this issue is all the Government\u2019s fault and the Prime Minister\u2019s fault. National spreads the blame wherever it can. It is very interesting that National has suddenly decided it does not like the rules. Why did National not search the messengers when it was in Government? Why did it not body-frisk people as they left the Beehive, which is something Gerry Brownlee has just promoted? He said that everybody who leaves the Beehive ought to be checked. Well, of course, Gerry Brownlee would spend a fair bit of time being checked, because he spends a lot of time in the Beehive, in Bellamy\u2019s. Bellamy\u2019s is in the Beehive, so if we are to check everybody who leaves there, we ought to check the people who come in and out of the building, or who pass through it, or who go up or down it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBill English\u2019s contribution was really interesting. He has tried to turn the debate from the leak\u2014which was so urgent that we needed to discuss it\u2014to the impact of the regulatory package on Telecom\u2019s potential future earnings. That is what he wanted to talk about. Then he wanted to blame David Cunliffe for somehow having inside knowledge that has affected Telecom\u2019s share price. I can tell the Opposition members that David Cunliffe clarified his position before the market opened, and Telecom clarified it yesterday. That is the truth, although those members do not like it. The Minister had no inside information from Telecom. He had no idea about its future dividend policy, and to say otherwise is nothing more than to tell large porkies in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b766b64845944cdb33c577b27455841\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The member cannot say \u201Cporkies\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddb5ad948f0740789887bcd88eeba7e2\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I want to look at what the inquiry was all about. I think it would do the members of the Opposition good if they actually read the State Services Commission report on the leak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of the issues. These are the findings of the State Services Commissioner. First of all, he stated the Cabinet document relating to the Telecom stocktake review was deliberately taken from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet by Mr Michael Ryan, a messenger employed by that department, and given to a Telecom employee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e336cd914da4ba0aee4fa55284a2e87\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We knew that. It was pretty hard to work that out!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221debda40fb324738bc01f523781d86b3\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Good\u2014they knew that. Secondly, the commissioner found Mr Ryan took the document from within a work area at the department on Tuesday, 2 May and passed it to a Telecom employee who was a personal friend. He returned the paper on 3 May. [Interruption] So we knew that. Mr Ryan had legitimate access to the document and was responsible for delivering it to the destruction bin where it was to go. The Telecom employee, and ultimately Telecom, were passive recipients of the document, having taken no action to seek it from Mr Ryan. Mr Ryan was a very good friend of a Telecom employee, and the commissioner decided that neither the employee nor Telecom was at fault regarding the acquisition of the document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe systems operated by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet were appropriate and were followed by every person other than Mr Ryan, an individual within that organisation. He joined the organisation in October last year. He was fully informed of his responsibility and of the confidentiality of Cabinet documents, just as every messenger had been under a Tory Government. Not even the great Tory party would have been able to stop an individual who took it upon himself to leak information to somebody else. Those were the major findings from the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022815ff2e7ef38466f946b01e0e8bc2b53\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Stop making excuses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1d468a02fe84e38a388280fec0209f5\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: They are not excuses; they are the facts. Let us have the facts, not the blatherskite, not the puffery, and not the useless debate on which we have just wasted 1 hour of taxpayers\u2019 time because the National Party said the leak was so important. National members said we needed to debate the leak, but they then debated absolutely everything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd3f06841ae94121acb0da47ca5b49ab\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fae3767e36804160947e0a0fe78c40c2\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002235514511aeb546a995475d93b6791631\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235514511aeb546a995475d93b6791631\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. It is very, very easy to see when a Government is in trouble. There are lots of tell-tale signs when a Government is in trouble. The first thing is that Ministers cannot coherently answer questions. They just speak more loudly, with more rabble and less coherency through all their statements, and if we want an example of that we need look no further than Pete Hodgson. He is a man so out of his depth in the health portfolio that nobody listens to him, not even the former Minister of Health, Annette King\u2014and let us look at Annette King today. She was embarrassed by my colleague Simon Power, who has made her look like a blithering fool. She does not know a decoy cop from an ordinary cop. Those are signs of a Government in trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EBut there is another way that a Government shows it is in trouble. The heads go down when questions are being asked. That is what we saw in the House this afternoon. When David Cunliffe was on his feet, Helen Clark did not look up. She did not look up from her papers. It was the famous \u201CDavid Benson-Pope look\u201D\u2014she looked at those papers; not a good sign. Anything would be better. She was filling in her Christmas cards for 2006. That was more important than looking up when David Cunliffe was on his feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EAnother way we can tell the Government is in trouble is that Government members run when they see the first sign of trouble. This afternoon we saw the miraculous statement from this Government that it is now exempting Guinness Peat Group shareholders for 5 years from the \u201Cgrey list\u201D. Because the Government cannot stand the heat from Tony Gibbs\u2019 advertising in the newspapers, it is running for the hills. I say to Guinness Peat Group shareholders: \u201CGood on you! Good on you for standing up for your rights, and good on you Tony Gibbs for taking it to this Government.\u201D But I say this\u2014it shows what a crazy policy this is. We now have a \u201Cgrey list\u201D that includes 2 percent of the world\u2019s markets. We have a \u201Cgrey list\u201D that includes only Australia and New Zealand\u2014unless one is a Guinness Peat Group shareholder and one is in England. What is so special about Guinness Peat Group that does not apply everywhere else around the country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government in serious trouble because its Budget, which comes out tomorrow, is a botch-up from start to finish. Frankly, I am not quite sure whether I should expect a Budget speech or a valedictory speech from Michael Cullen, although I am pretty sure that one will lead to the other. Michael Cullen is like David Cunliffe. This is what they have in common: they are both dead men walking. That is the situation, for different reasons. Helen Clark has cut Michael Cullen loose. He was the disaster that was Budget 2005, and I will tell members that privately Labour members never talk to me about Budget 2005. They never talk to me about the \u201Cchewing gum Budget\u201D. When those Labour members walk around they call it \u201CMichael\u2019s Budget\u201D, because that is the way Helen talks about it\u2014\u201CMichael\u2019s Budget\u201D, the Budget that delivered them within a whisker of losing the potentially unloseable election. What a shocking disgrace of a Budget it was! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ESo Michael Cullen is a dead man walking. He is not allowed input into this Budget. That has been delegated to Heather Simpson. He is not allowed to write the policy for the Budget, and this week he is not even allowed to characterise his own Budget. His own Budget is boring. He knows it, but it is not his Budget any more. It is either David Cunliffe\u2019s, before he was a dead man walking, or it is Heather Simpson\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThere was one interesting piece of the Budget. Well\u2014at least it was meant to come out before it was leaked, as we heard so eloquently this afternoon. That was the \u201Cshock and awe\u201D piece of this Budget\u2014the local loop unbundling. Well, it has been shock and awe, and it will turn into \u201Cshock and awe-ful\u201D for David Cunliffe, because this is a fiasco of monumental proportions. It has wiped off $2.6 billion of shareholders\u2019 value\u2014even bigger than David Cunliffe\u2019s ego\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227107d6628bfc4223b55f5e4cb9d9b08f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I don\u2019t know!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acb56193067f401182257d996fbafbc2\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is a pretty close call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200b0309478fc426fa5e72f75cbf27106\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: The most popular member in the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b4965ec88df4bad8a65879a04f20c63\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. David Cunliffe is so popular I have already had emails from members of the Labour caucus leaking me things about David to use in next week\u2019s question time. But this is the interesting thing. When $2.6 billion was being wiped off Telecom\u2019s share price, each and every one of us suffered at the hands of the clumsy David Cunliffe. We all own shares in Telecom through the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and yesterday afternoon we all shared in the $200 million loss that David Cunliffe delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022df3d89d416a042b7908de99bfb3053e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df3d89d416a042b7908de99bfb3053e8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E We have just heard from the man who would be the leader of the National Party, but he has just given a really good example of why he is not the leader of the National Party. He is sitting next to Bill English, who must have been thinking to himself: \u201CWell, I can do better than that.\u201D\u2014and in his speech just half an hour ago he did do better than that. It is not clear when Don Brash will stop being the leader of the National Party. The ground is still shifting in that caucus. The long and short of it is that Bill English\u2019s supporters are not yet ready to pull their support from Don Brash, because they do not have the numbers to defeat John Key. That is the guts of it. That is the prisoner\u2019s dilemma the National Party finds itself in. Bill English supporters are still supporting Don Brash\u2014whom they voted against when he came into the leadership role\u2014because they do not have the numbers to defeat John Key. That is the guts of it, and it will not get resolved until those two gentlemen over there come to a deal, come to some sort of arrangement or understanding\u2014cut something\u2014and then there will be a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut I can tell members what we do know. We know what Don Brash said when he became sort of famous. He said in October 2003: \u201CAnd I don\u2019t want us to be afraid of the electorate, by watering down our message.\u201D Big, brave Don said for National members not to water down their message just because they might scare the electorate. Has he kept that idea anywhere close to his actions ever since? No chance!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E That is the man who was going to sell assets to pay for his tax cuts if he had won the last election, but we did not hear a word of it. That is the man who was going to give us part charges for hospitals and get rid of universality in primary health care to pay for his tax cuts, but we did not hear a bit of it. That is the man who was going to have swingeing cuts to social services to pay for his tax cuts, but we did not hear a word of that. In fact, he did not even tell his own caucus that bit, because Bill English, Katherine Rich, or whoever, would not have let him do so. So that is a man who does not tell the whole truth. That is a man who is afraid of the electorate, who waters down his message and, therefore, who shows to be someone who does not tell the whole truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EAn interesting question arises about Don Brash. Does Don Brash bungle, or does he have a deeper problem\u2014have difficulty in revealing the full truth? There are quite a lot of examples of bungling. Last week\u2019s example was a good one. Don Brash called a press conference about an email. He was the guy who called the press conference, and he rocked up to the press conference he had called, but without the email. That seems to be a bungle. It was written up as a bungle but it does start to make one wonder whether a deeper thing is going on with Don Brash\u2014whether somehow in his psyche he thinks: \u201CIf I don\u2019t bring the email to the press conference, maybe no one else will, either. Maybe the email doesn\u2019t exist.\u201D So we have a guy whom we know can bungle. It is like the situation in the election when Mr Connell from R\u0101kaia said: \u201CWe\u2019re going to log the West Coast.\u201D Nick Smith, from the same party, said: \u201COh no, we\u2019re not.\u201D And Don Brash said: \u201CAh, ah, ah \u2026\u201D, quite a bit. We know that was a bungle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EBut there is also the two-truth syndrome. The two-truth syndrome is starting to come out in Dr Brash. The classic one from the campaign was when he said, within the marae, that he liked M\u0101oris but said, as soon as he got outside the marae, that he was going to be nasty to them. Where that syndrome really came to light was in the Exclusive Brethren revelations during the course of the campaign. Don Brash, in his opening bid, started off by saying that he could not remember meeting with the Exclusive Brethren. Within a day he said that he might have met with them once. Within about a day after that he said that he might have met with them once, but certainly came to no deal with them. Then it became clear that he had met with them more than once and discussed a few things, and then he said that he had met with them several times and discussed their support for the party. That is a man whom we now know\u2014from the last week or two, because it has been revealed by the police\u2014was talking about a $1.2 million level of support for the National Party campaign, but he could not remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThat is the man who does not immediately see the need to tell the truth; he does not immediately see the need to do that. It is a most unusual situation\u2014that he continues to get this far into his political scene without yet being shopped for it. He has been shopped only for being a bungler, but the underlying problem this gentleman has is that he does not want to tell the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2df8d50eaba4b2999e313a3c3c232d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2df8d50eaba4b2999e313a3c3c232d4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Minister can say what he likes about those issues, but he needs to consider that this Budget will be overshadowed by the fracas around the Telecom leak and, now, David Cunliffe, the Minister of Communications, being subject to a Securities Commission investigation. In fact, it prompted a thought\u2014[Interruption]\u2014the Cunliffe Budget, that is right; his first, his best, and I suspect his last. In a way, though, Dr Cullen deserves it, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EIt did make me think about the inquiries that this Government has had to deal with this year. I will just run through a quick list, for the benefit of Parliament and the public who are listening. This year there has been a police inquiry into David Benson-Pope; a Companies Act inquiry into David Parker; a police investigation into the Labour Party\u2019s election expenses, which concluded that Heather Simpson would be prosecuted if she went before a court; a State Services Commission inquiry into the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, which we have debated today; and on Friday the Securities Commission initiated an inquiry into Government processes for protecting confidential commercial information, and in the next day or two it will almost certainly start to investigate David Cunliffe\u2019s statements that, as an insider, affected the Telecom share price the other day. That is six inquiries by statutory agencies into potentially serious offences committed by people who are in, or working for, the current Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda511f734d3465ab6fe07ec8fa8070d\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s one every 3 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b89a64dde44056834ee8b4126ab63c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was one a month, but the member is right; it is one every 3 weeks. It is that kind of shadiness and growing untrustworthiness that will cloud the public\u2019s view of the Budget. All of those things are elements and symptoms of their mistrust of Dr Cullen. The key public reaction to this Budget will be that they do not trust Dr Cullen\u2019s statements that New Zealand cannot afford tax cuts. When he says it now, they just do not believe him. What compounds that lack of belief is the growing understanding among the public that Labour operates in the shade, says things that it knows are not true but says them anyway, and is now getting caught regularly doing it by the statutory agencies of law and order. It is all part of a bigger picture. And Dr Cullen will be telling New Zealanders something that is not correct. He can afford tax cuts, and by the time he gets up to give his speech tomorrow he will wish that he had been giving them, because he does not have much else to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe other problem he has is that the public now do not trust the Labour Government with spending public money. The public like Working for Families, but almost everything else the Government initiates now they regard as wasting public money. So when Dr Cullen gets up tomorrow and announces 23 different initiatives that spread $3.2 million each over 4 years, they will think it is a waste of time\u2014just like the reception of Steve Maharey\u2019s announcement about giving schools $9 million over 4 years to fix bullying. That will be enough to employ the bureaucrat who will organise the workshops and the PowerPoint presentation, and write the strategy. That is the end of it; it is all gone, and the public know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhat will underlie this Budget tomorrow is not so much its boredom, although it will be boring, not so much that it will do nothing for growth, although it will not do anything for growth, nor that it means we will fall further behind Australia, because it certainly means we will, but that the public just will not trust anything Dr Cullen says. That is why my colleague is right\u2014Dr Cullen is now a dead man walking. The one person in the Labour caucus who knows that for sure is Helen Clark. That is why she has already said she does not know whether he will be there again. Of course, the shame is that tomorrow Dr Cullen may not get to give a valedictory. He may get to pretend that it is a vigorous, new, visionary Budget transforming the economy, and I think he will try that, but it will probably be his last Budget. That would not be a bad thing for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022359a8c2b03a743e8a070ad03c1f6b0cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022359a8c2b03a743e8a070ad03c1f6b0cd\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure today to rise to speak in the general debate on behalf of New Zealand First, because I have to say that tomorrow will be a blue-ribbon day for the New Zealand Police\u2014that is for sure. We can compare the joy, elation, and satisfaction that exists on these cross benches with the scepticism, pessimism, moaning, whingeing, and bitching that we hear coming from Simon Power\u2019s quarters. [Interruption] I withdraw the word; I did not mean to call Simon Power a bitch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ebc7c53a01042ca8d05e081dd4fa974\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d021dea9643a401d8cfdef02884633b3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223848aa52cef041a0a177d56cc777ce00\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member has just said it twice. He is quite entitled to call me any range of things within the Standing Orders, but reference to that particular word twice in the course of his speech is not only outside the Standing Orders but I would think, quite frankly, is grossly offensive to most people present in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297981ed1d38845a59b21dfb35d2e8786\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f035f090b1bc48c59f73ce529f800654\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw, if I have offended the member\u2019s sensibility. \u201CBitch\u201D, I would assert, Madam Speaker, is a female dog.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022958bf053e10940dd8091c812fc374126\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. I warn the member. He knows that when he withdraws and apologises he is not to repeat the indiscretion for which he has been called to withdraw and apologise. I ask the member now to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7485d8c15314cfa826e23d72734b1aa\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Is it not interesting that the people who are complaining, who are casting the most pessimism and doubt, and who are trying their level best to undermine the morale of the police right now, are National members, who claim the National Party as the law and order party of this nation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E Let us talk about the facts of the matter. The fact is that National Governments slashed police numbers. The fact is that a National Government promised to increase the police strength by 900 officers and did that by merging the Ministry of Transport with the police force and calling those traffic officers crime fighters\u2014which clearly was not the case. The fact is that a National Government gave the police a computer worth $200 million, and then asked them to seek cost recovery through staffing reductions\u2014and that cost about 400 police. The fact is that it was not until Jim Bolger, that National leader with vision, signed up to a coalition agreement with New Zealand First and pledged to reinstate 500 police officers in the force, that that increase in staffing happened, during the coalition period with New Zealand First and National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThat pattern of support for the police has continued now, with New Zealand First securing not 1,000 but 1,250 new staff. Do members remember the whining that came from the Opposition side when Mr Power said: \u201COh no, it\u2019s not going to be 1,000. It\u2019s going to be fewer, because there\u2019s going to be non-sworn people.\u201D? What did we find? He was right\u2014the number was not 1,000; it was 1,250.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EBut wait\u2014there is more. Now we are bringing on stream about 30 specialist forensic people\u2014people who are graduates from university who have seen CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, like it as a career option, and like that sort of work. They are lining up to enlist in the police force to become New Zealand\u2019s\u2014I guess Auckland\u2019s\u2014CSI team. Is that not great? But Mr Power is not happy. He has to have something to denigrate the police with\u2014to rubbish them. So he stands there saying that it is not going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWell, here is a challenge to Mr Power. If we do not achieve the target, that is fine; he may well be vindicated in his criticisms. But, if we do, I ask the member whether he will resign from Parliament. Will he put his money where his mouth is? Will he accept responsibility, by resigning, for denigrating the police, for denigrating the commissioner, and for denigrating the fine men and women out there who are trying to do the job? I do not hear him say \u201CYes\u201D. He simply laughs, because he has aspirations of being a Cabinet Minister. Well, the chances are that that might not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is encouraged by this Government\u2019s commitment to supporting its supply and confidence agreement. That agreement goes one step further. We are not finished with only about 1,250 police. We have an agreement to achieve ratios comparable with those in Australia by 2010, and our figures put that at around an extra 1,640 police. So on one side of the House we have people who are moaning, whingeing, and whining\u2014about not being in Government; that is the real crux of the matter\u2014and on the other side of the House we have people who are getting on, striking deals, getting commitments, getting funding, implementing policies, and making it happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWho are the winners? The winners are the men and women who every day put themselves on the line to protect our communities. I tell National members to go and talk to police officers. One of the things coming through that gives me great confidence we will achieve those recruitment figures is the flow-on effect of officers knowing that stress levels and workloads will be reduced, and that crime cases will get more scrutiny, because more people are on stream. That in itself is giving an incentive to officers\u2014who might well have thought of giving the job away\u2014to stay on so that they can bring those new recruits through, mentor them, and make them good productive people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThere are some issues that Labour and New Zealand First will continue to discuss, and one of those will be the timed run for potential recruits. I do not think that it is sensible for a 37-year-old woman to be assessed on a standard stricter than that of the SAS or the Special Tactics Group. Mr Power is laughing. I challenge Mr Power to come and do the timed run with me. He should show everyone that as a law and order spokesperson who wants to lead by example, he is capable of doing that run. I ask Mr Power to pass the run test with me, despite the fact that he is probably half my age, and then we will judge him by how he walks and not by how he talks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002273f7ea5b9b764d62a545c3c3787c9f5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273f7ea5b9b764d62a545c3c3787c9f5e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Members will be interested to know that it is 8 months to the day since New Zealand went to the polls and elected this current Labour-led Government for its historic third term. Since then the community is not unsurprised that the achievements of the Government could not be more starkly defined than by comparison with the failings of the Opposition. National is certainly muddled, and we are used to that. We hear some pretty befuddled comments in the House, and we are now quietly finding out how much Mr Key and Dr Brash have been cuddling up to their strange religious Exclusive Brethren friends. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EWhat has the Government been doing in the meantime? Well, it has been getting on with business. For example, our active approach to social assistance, with case managers increasingly focused on supporting people into sustainable work rather than simply processing benefits, has yielded results that speak for themselves. There are now 2.1 million New Zealanders in work\u2014the highest level of employment ever recorded. According to last week\u2019s household labour force survey, 313,000 more New Zealanders are in jobs since this Government took office. That is approximately 135 additional New Zealanders in jobs each day, every day, since Labour came to office. That is 50,000 extra New Zealanders in work each year under Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EBut wait, there is more. Our labour force participation rate is at its highest ever, at 68.5 percent. And we have the second-lowest unemployment rate in the OECD, at 3.9 percent. The current OECD average is almost double ours, at 6.3 percent. By comparison, I mention those countries to which Dr Brash and his friends so often look for direction. The United States ranks 9th in the OECD, with an unemployment rate of 4.8 percent; the UK is 10th, with unemployment at 4.9 percent; and Australia is 11th, with unemployment at 5 percent. I tell Dr Brash that maybe the grass is not so green over there, after all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EBut wait, there is even more. The number of New Zealanders receiving an unemployment benefit has fallen by 72.4 percent since we took office in 1999. The total number of beneficiaries has fallen by nearly 30 percent over the same period. The impact of these kinds of results on the lives of ordinary Kiwis should never be underestimated. When Labour took office in 1999 over 17 percent of the working-age population were on some kind of benefit. Today that figure is down to 11 percent. Likewise, nearly 7 percent of our working-age population was receiving an unemployment benefit in 1999. Today the figure is 1.8 percent. All this means that the number of children living in benefit-dependent households has dropped by 20 percent. These are significant changes\u2014significant for individuals, for communities, and for our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI am really proud that these changes are being delivered by a Labour-led Government. Pride is something that Labour has. We are not ashamed to celebrate New Zealand\u2019s sporting and cultural successes, our creativity, our unique heritage, our cosmopolitan lifestyle, our great outdoors, or our ability to live largely at peace with each other in a multicultural society. That is why it grows so tiresome that all those people on the other side of the Chamber can do is criticise. But that seems to be the National Party way. To those members, every initiative is flawed and every achievement is derisory. To them, it is all downside. The grass is always greener somewhere else, and almost always in Australia. I do not think many New Zealanders can recall in recent years, or in their lifetime, a political party, or at least a political party\u2019s leadership, so willing to bag and put down their own country and their own countrymen and women. They take delight in every study that does not place New Zealand first, and greater delight if they can paint New Zealand and New Zealanders as failures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EOver the Christmas break we saw the unsavoury situation of the Leader of the Opposition slathering in hope of a recession. In truly bizarre style we saw Dr Brash standing in a hydro lake, praying for a drought so that National might inflict power outages on our population this winter. In the last week alone that shrill crescendo of \u201Clife across the Tasman is better\u201D has grown again. I say that if that is the way the National Party sees it, and if Don Brash, John Key, Bill English, and Gerry Brownlee would rather live in Australia then let us help them go. Several travel agents have sales on at the moment. I know that one-way tickets to Australia are going for $180, and I think that is a steal. I am happy to buy every member of the National Party caucus\u2014every member\u2014a one-way ticket to Oz. The only proviso is, of course, that they stay there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022c82ce90688284b3eae08fdd99fa3392c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c82ce90688284b3eae08fdd99fa3392c\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I say to the Hon David Benson-Pope, who has just resumed his seat, that the only way Labour has any chance of winning the next election is by trying to get rid of this Opposition. That will not be very easy. I ask him what pride there is in someone who bullies children in his charge. That member stands up in this House and talks about pride, and he has been shown to bully girls and boys in his charge, which is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E Tomorrow Dr Cullen will read his seventh Budget to this Parliament. We would think it should be one of the most important days of the year for the Government\u2014the day of the Budget. This year it has been totally overshadowed by the bungling around a leak that has wiped over $2 billion off the equity owned by ordinary men and women in this country. It has been overshadowed by the fact that the Minister of Communications, David Cunliffe, has been referred to the Securities Commission for a possible insider knowledge leak, through the wholesale news service, to wholesalers in our stock market that wiped another $200 million off the equity owned by ordinary men and women in New Zealand. Those scandals will totally overshadow the reading of Dr Cullen\u2019s seventh Budget tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDr Michael Cullen may also explain why his New Zealand Superannuation Fund has been the biggest seller of Telecom shares in recent times. Something has a fairly bad odour about it there; we cannot help but wonder whether some of the people in this Labour Government might have said things, either advertently or inadvertently, to some of their mates involved with the New Zealand Superannuation Fund that led to a rather large sell-down of the shares in Telecom held by that fund. Dr Cullen may care to advise us what has gone on there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EOnly a few days ago the Australian Budget was read by the centre-right Liberal Government of Australia. It announced tax cuts, and everyone said that would be great for Australia, for the economy, and for Australian people. They said that was a great way to attract more skilled people to Australia. Everyone said that Budget was great, because it made Australia more competitive. And what will happen tomorrow here in New Zealand? Why do New Zealanders not deserve that kind of thing? Why do New Zealanders not deserve to have the chance to say it is great that their hard work has finally been recognised by their Government sharing some of the dividend with them and cutting their taxes? But oh no, this Labour Government will not do that. It now collects 50 percent more tax, in dollar of the day terms\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0dc57577dfe4ec5a6f66efe3c7ac89c\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1ff17aeaf0e4414b5f5c22f9d5a4752\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u201450 percent more tax than when it came into office just over 6 years ago. The Government is collecting half as much tax again as it collected then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDr Cullen says we cannot reduce taxes, and people earning $60,000 a year should pay our top tax rate\u2014despite the fact that that rate cuts in far earlier than in almost any other OECD country. But what is absurd about it is this: Dr Cullen says on the one hand people on $60,000 a year are so wealthy that they should pay our top tax rate, yet on the other hand this Labour Government says those people are so poor that if they have three children they should receive in benefits a year, excluding the accommodation supplement, $6,752 of handouts. How can the Government say on the one hand that those people are so wealthy they should pay the top tax rate, and on the other hand, if they have three dependent children, they are so poor that we have to give them back more than $100 a week in benefits? That is absurd! The Government says those people are so wealthy that they must pay the top tax rate, yet it also says they are so poor that the Government is to give them over $6,700 a year in handouts and benefits. That is just absurd! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDo members know what one of the most disgusting things will be in tomorrow\u2019s Budget? It is that the Working for Families package looks after New Zealanders who earn from about $40,000 to $60,000 or more of income a year, and who have kids. But the people who have really missed out, because Labour knew helping them would not buy it any more votes, are the women on the domestic purposes benefit earning $10,000 to $25,000 of income a year. Those women are trying to get off the domestic purposes benefit\u2014and this rapacious Labour Government takes 92 percent of every extra dollar they earn. It has crapped on its own supporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00224446a2f696524d27ad4bff4a60ce1e01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224446a2f696524d27ad4bff4a60ce1e01\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Last weekend two significant events took place in this country. One took place at Upper Hutt; the other, somewhere else in New Zealand. One was a conference on justice issues run by the Prison Fellowship; the other was a regional conference of the National Party, where the leader, Don Brash, spoke on law and order. I will take the time to congratulate the organisers, Kim Workman and the Prison Fellowship, on their conference. They had a distinguished line-up of speakers, speaking on the very difficult issue of prison muster numbers in this country. Don Brash, on the other hand, was speaking to the party faithful\u2014well, I guess they are at the moment; they soon may not be\u2014and he was saying things like: \u201CNational supports the justice system.\u201D, it \u201Cadvocates\u201D, it \u201Csupports\u201D, it \u201Cbelieves\u201D, it \u201Cknows\u201D, and it \u201Cproposes a focus\u201D. There was not one thing on policy or what National would do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI have to go back to 2004 to look at National Party policy in this area. The policy at that time stated that National would abolish parole and would be prepared to accept 3,000 more prisoners going to prison\u2014at a cost of about $1.5 billion of capital; $500 million a year. That policy comes from the party that we just heard Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith say would give tax cuts to everyone. I cannot reconcile that contradiction; neither can the wise people of New Zealand\u2014neither can the people who spoke at this restorative justice conference, such as Dr Warren Young, Professor Pratt, Judge David Carruthers, and Bonnie Robinson from the Salvation Army. They are all learned people with a genuine commitment to try to move New Zealand ahead in this difficult area of corrections management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that Simon Power came along to the conference, for a day. He was honest enough to admit that he did learn some things. I hope he takes that wise judgment back to his caucus and speaks to his leader, Dr Don Brash, to try to change his view in this area, although I do not hold out much hope\u2014of course, I do not hold out much hope for Don Brash, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe are moving ahead as a Government in this area. We have a number of things going on, because it is embarrassing and shameful to have New Zealand locking people up at the second-highest rate in the Western World. This happens in a country where most of us know one another. We are 4 million people living in small communities, caring and looking after one another\u2014or we should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere are some visionary people in the National Party. We do not hear from them often, though. We could take, for example, one Tau Henare. He knows that there are a lot of people in prison who do not actually belong in prison. Their crimes do not actually require that they should be locked up like the other prisoners. Don Brash tried to paint a picture of us letting people out of jails. We are not doing that. What we are proposing, and thinking and talking about, is that the 30 percent of people who are in prison for fewer than 12 weeks may better serve their penalty, and repay their debt to society and to victims, in ways other than just being locked up in expensive prisons. That is what we are talking about\u2014and Tau Henare agrees with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWho else in the National Party agrees with us? Well, we have a very learned new member, who is not allowed to speak, from Marlborough. He too thinks we should have a fresh approach\u2014along with all the people who were at that conference at Upper Hutt\u2014not at the regional National Party conference, though, because people attending that conference were fed a load of garbage. Colin King, obviously, cannot have been at that conference, because he said: \u201CI am not suggesting we go soft on crime, but argue that there is a problem when as a nation we lock up criminals at a rate second only to the United States.\u201D He went on to say: \u201CWe must look at a totally new way of dealing with crime while still insisting that if you do the crime, you will do the time.\u201D Well, I agree. Colin King, along with the Government, thinks that there should be a fresh way of looking at this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022056100191ad341e4ba0331dde85645b8\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s hardly a revelation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022306c41ca35ff40e49fe6630ab8f2d398\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: And I hope that Simon Power, Don Brash, and most of the people in the National Party who would like to see 3,000 more people locked up in prisons will look at the lessons coming from the conference in Upper Hutt, not from the National Party regional conference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u00226f2994b0a8fa4dbd8d998cca6d08c64a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f2994b0a8fa4dbd8d998cca6d08c64a\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E That was a public broadcast from Damien O\u2019Connor, the Minister who is currently overseeing the construction of the \u201CMilton Hilton\u201D just south of Dunedin, which is the most expensive prison to be built in New Zealand\u2019s history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ETomorrow will be known forever more as the day of the Cunliffe Budget\u2014the one that got away. It is the Budget that was to have a flagship announcement but that was leaked 3 weeks earlier by someone from within the Beehive. I read the documents put out by the State Services Commissioner, and, frankly, I say that the document actually begs more questions than it answers. The report requires one major question to be asked, which is how it happened at all. If one reads the document one can see it is clear that although the State Services Commissioner wants to make this look like an extremely simple chain of events, the reality is probably quite different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ESome aspects of the report are very, very strange indeed. My colleagues Bill English and Gerry Brownlee, who have spoken before me, covered some of the major issues, but I would like to turn to an exchange between the Minister of State Services, Annette King, and Mark Prebble. On 3 May, as a result of the leak, Annette King got on the phone and said to Mark Prebble that she wanted an inquiry. But what is very strange is that the Minister did not confirm this by letter until some 6 days after that. Her letter to Mark Prebble is dated 9 May. Some 6 days after the phone call the Minister confirmed the terms of reference and the nature of that discussion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EMembers know that if Ministers want to turn round letters they can do so in a matter of minutes. That was not the case here, so I think the Minister needs to explain. The letter was not complex; it is only a couple of hundred words long, but attached to it are the terms of reference. What is strange is that Mark Prebble was quoting those terms of reference days earlier in correspondence with people on the subject. So obviously Mark Prebble has a photographic memory, or can recite text from an oral submission. It seems odd that he was able to have the terms of reference and act upon them before the Minister had formally given them to him. Surely the Minister or the ministerial office cannot forget to write a letter that confirms a discussion. What this says to me is that there was some sneaky little arrangement behind the scenes to not confirm the actual terms of reference and what would go on. I think the Minister needs to explain what the strategy was here, because it simply does not stack up that some 6 days later she chose to confirm the nature of that discussion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EOne of the other points that I think is quite hilarious, though, is that when this issue of a leaked document was a matter of concern, David Cunliffe again put himself into the fray. At the time when all focus was on this one leaked document, David Cunliffe is subject to another paragraph in Mark Prebble\u2019s report. Mark Prebble notes that again\u2014for a second time\u2014the document went missing and was found somewhat haplessly behind a photocopier. This can only indicate that David Cunliffe\u2019s office was somehow in a state of chaos. One can imagine the flurry of documents being copied left, right, and centre. I do not know how someone manages to drop one extra copy down behind the photocopier, but that itself, although it may seem a small issue, is perhaps indicative of the way that office is being run. So while David Cunliffe is considering his new role as a market analyst/commentator he might like to think about how his office is being run. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThis week we are seeing another charm offensive blown to bits\u2014that is, the charm offensive that Trevor Mallard was trying to inflict on the business community. He was trying to look like a resurrected Minister who was interested in business issues. One speech actually had Trevor Mallard saying that we should celebrate wealth creators. If that is not a road to Damascus conversion, I do not know what is. But yesterday in the House we saw all of that blown to bits. Under pressure from questions from the Opposition, the Minister just blew to bits and decided that he would dish dirt, which is basically reverting to type.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6fe3628151c4116a6e72da4a443d0bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6fe3628151c4116a6e72da4a443d0bf\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E The focus of our debate today is on leadership. After a week of Opposition bungling and botch-ups, I want to talk about another little starlet who is lurking in the leader\u2019s shadow, and who the Opposition needs to be very mindful of. From dead man walking to P\u0101keh\u0101 woman squawking\u2014yes, I am talking about the actions of Judith Collins on the Korowai Manaaki Youth Justice North visit on 15 May. I was there, and I took deep offence at what I observed. I am talking about \u201CCalamity Collins\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289b3493d342f4dbb9174a88e02674af8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member must always refer to all members by their correct name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205872f1cf80c4367bb7ca9ac882c244d\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I am talking about Judith Collins. The incident was no surprise to any of us in Government. The overt, deliberate, and stage-managed actions of that member, and her subsequent bathing in the media light, show a member who is absolutely desperate for power at any price. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe received an email on 4 May stating: \u201CWe agreed that the centres would be told we did not want a p\u014Dwhiri if women MPs were seated at the back. Has this been relayed to those organising the visit?\u201D. Who agreed? It was not us. The issue never came to the select committee, and I personally would have taken offence at that suggestion. Members should be real about this. I knew there would be a p\u014Dwhiri; it was on the programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ESince that member\u2019s visit to Kelvin Road School, her stance has provoked healthy debate and plenty of attention. I met Maria Tiini, the Regional Director of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri on 2 December after that incident to seek assurance that I, as a P\u0101keh\u0101 woman MP in Rotorua, had never offended Te Arawa. I was advised of the difference between kawa and policy, and what happened at that Korowai Manaaki Youth Justice North visit was departmental policy. At that time we were not aware of the protocol on that marae. We were on a marae, and Judith Collins does not seem to understand that. Her attempts to negotiate or arrange protocol went terribly wrong. She tried to dictate where members could sit. M\u0101ori will adjust protocol if it is negotiated in good favour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI ask members whether her actions were those of a role model for women. I think those in the National Party need to sit up and take notice. Mrs Collins is an example of everything that is wrong with the National Party. She shows two faces, she is inconsistent, and she is a reflection of the absolute lack of leadership and control in that caucus. Judith Collins was busting for a rumble that day. She was clumsily hiding behind the belief that she had organised the protocol. This was never going to be a no-surprises visit, and I have not spoken out until now. If Judith Collins cannot take the heat, she should get out of the kitchen. We stood outside the marae and she knew there would be a p\u014Dwhiri. Why did she not go away if she knew she was going to cause offence? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis is the self-same member who overstepped the line of decency with her David Benson-Pope allegations. It is the same Judith Collins who said to the Sunday Star-Times: \u201CI\u2019d often be in tears saying goodbye to the bobby calves. I couldn\u2019t do it\u2014I\u2019m just a big softy wimp.\u201D Well, her tears in our select committee were not those of a wimp; they were the tears of a woman with calamity all around her. That woman shed crocodile tears that day. Will the real woman express herself? Is this the woman who was relentless, ruthless, and determined in her exposure of David Benson-Pope and in her attempts to undermine Lianne Dalziel? We will not forget that. Bullies like to dish out dirt and abuse, but cannot take a challenge. There was no wimp there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EReferring back to the marae, whether boots were on or off was irrelevant to us. That member\u2019s gloves were on, and when things turned to custard she went to the media and bleated. Judith Collins walked to the front and sat down absolutely deliberately, and she stuck to the chair like a piece of Velcro. Brownie Rauwhero has already spoken out. He was not at all upset about where she sat; he was absolutely upset about the MPs\u2019 actions during a haka performed by children at the event, and that was what made him respond. He said that those children who came from troubled backgrounds were showing their mana and standing tall during that performance. Those women MPs let themselves and their colleagues down. It was a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5d1698067f64419baa55b67a4d678ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5d1698067f64419baa55b67a4d678ba\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E As we approach Budget day, the M\u0101ori Party has been asking questions of anyone who will listen as to whether the Budget will make a difference. Will tomorrow\u2019s Budget improve the cultural, social, and economic wealth of the nation? A boom for whom? The irony is, of course, that although United Future, Progressive, the Greens, and New Zealand First have been asked for an input, Labour has deliberately ignored the fact, denied, or just plain forgotten, that tangata whenua may also have something worthy to contribute to the Budget. Why should we be surprised, when the Government produced a Budget last year that failed even to include the word \u201CM\u0101ori\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is committed to a true and accurate account of the economic picture of our nation, for the connection of truth and accuracy is particularly important. Whose truth are we telling if we are counting only part of the picture? How accurate can predictions be, if only a partial account of wealth is conveyed? The million-dollar question for all economists and analysts is why, if GDP is up, Aotearoa is so down. Why are we experiencing crippling rates of poverty, escalating trends of convictions, unprecedented growth in police numbers, and the breaking of all international records in child abuse and youth suicides? Where is the pleasure in evaluating the impact of new technologies if they are accompanied by jobless growth\u2014growth of economic activity without any subsequent impact on employment rates? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EAnother riddle to stifle all laughter is that the more fossil fuels we burn and the more greenhouse gases we emit, the greater GDP grows. The problem is not with GDP per se. GDP was only ever intended as a measure of activity\u2014as a quantitative count of the goods and services used to make the economy grow. One would think that no politician in his or her right mind would argue that higher poverty rates, dirty air, increased stress, or the loss of first language speakers are signs of a successful nation, yet that is exactly what GDP does. It measures the quantity of the fishing haul without even stopping to count the cost of the destruction of the seabed. It counts the profit of felling logs without assessing the damage to the eco-environment and measuring what is left behind. The M\u0101ori Party knows that just because one does not count something, that does not mean it does not count. The M\u0101ori Party also knows and believes that some of the things that are counted, as happens with GDP, do not count in making this society of ours a better place for all of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EFor years New Zealanders have watched MPs turn up to give certificates to community workers, talk about how much they value a safe neighbourhood, and praise the volunteer workforce who care for the elderly, the young, the sick, the poor, the vulnerable, and the lonely. Yet that volunteer work is never included in the national accounts. It is time to make a difference and to make it count. We need a dramatic shift in the political vocabulary to take account of all those who are locked out of the Budget, sidelined from the discussions, left behind, and alienated. That includes the M\u0101ori Party, which is the only independent M\u0101ori voice in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori know better than most the impact of measuring things right. Tangata whenua live by kaupapa that remind us that if we are not caring for Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, mother Earth, and if we are not feeding the wairua and sustaining our spiritual growth, then our mauri, our life force, will be compromised. We understand that the revival of te reo M\u0101ori, te reo rangatira, and the advancement of m\u0101tauranga, knowledge, will not only ensure the survival of the people as M\u0101ori but also increase our nation\u2019s prosperity and cultural capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EWe know that indicators already exist, as stated in a social report of the Te Hoe Nuku Roa study undertaken at Massey University. That study assesses a range of quality outcomes that provide a wider assessment than GDP. Currently, these frameworks are seen only as interesting additions\u2014add-ons\u2014to conventional measures. While GDP is misused to represent far more than it was ever intended to, these social indicators are reserved in separate asides that can be pushed away. The M\u0101ori Party wants to bring to the core a framework of indicators that account for our human, social, and cultural assets, alongside our produced and manufactured wealth. At the centre of all our policy thinking is the genuine progress index as a measurement of our pathway to a truly healthy and prosperous society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfd77b7d65a84a2fa1d46ccc7220ed92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfd77b7d65a84a2fa1d46ccc7220ed92\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Tomorrow is Budget day. Tomorrow, New Zealand\u2019s Bledisloe Cup\u201D for economic growth, for well-being, and for keeping our best and brightest in the country will be gifted to Australia. The first half of the game came last week: the score was 4-0 to Australia, because Australia has had 4 years of tax cuts\u2014$45 billion worth being the most recent announcement. But New Zealanders will get no personal tax cuts whatsoever tomorrow in the Budget. The \u201CBledisloe Cup\u201D for competitiveness will again be gifted to Australia tomorrow. The World Competitiveness Index saw New Zealand fall in place from No. 16 to No. 22 and Australia move up from No. 9 to No. 6. We are losing to Australia again and again. The \u201CBledisloe Cup\u201D for tax efficiency and GDP will again be gifted to Australia tomorrow. About 6 years ago Australian after-tax incomes were 20 percent higher than those in New Zealand. Come tomorrow they will be 33 percent higher\u2014and that was before the recent Australian Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI would like to talk about some numbers. So far, $2.6 billion worth of wealth and confidence has been lost since Cabinet started leaking and the Minister of Communications started speaking. For those who have invested in Telecom over the past few months, $2.14 per share has been lost. Another number is $200 million, which is the amount that was knocked off the wealth of New Zealanders with investments in Telecom, because the Minister of Communications decided that he knew best how to run the dividend policy for New Zealand\u2019s largest listed company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Communications and the Prime Minister just could not help themselves. Every time they opened their mouths, decided they knew best, and decided to share their business acumen and wide-ranging commercial and real-world experience with the New Zealand public, the share price of Telecom dropped another 20c or 30c. There is a great saying in the financial markets that \u201Cthe trend is your friend\u201D. If the Prime Minister and the Minister had just shut up, perhaps New Zealanders would have been able to avoid some of those losses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe invoices for Cabinet\u2019s leaks and for Labour\u2019s incompetence and incredible commercial naivety are about to be sent out to New Zealanders. They will arrive over the next few days when broker share statements and valuations are sent to those people who have been trying to save for their retirement and build up nest eggs. Trusts and charities that had been doing the right thing will have to pay about 20 percent of what they thought their Telecom investments were worth, because Cabinet started leaking and the Minister started speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThose numbers\u2014$200 million, $2.6 billion\u2014are huge, so for those listening on the radio, let me bring it down to pretty simple numbers. For someone who had about $1,000 worth of Telecom shares a few months ago, before Cabinet started leaking and the Minister started speaking, those shares are now worth about $800. That is a loss of about $200. For those who had started to build up a bit of a nest egg for retirement and who had about $10,000 of Telecom shares a few months ago, those shares\u2014after Cabinet started leaking and the Minister started speaking\u2014are now worth $8,000, which is a loss of $2,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EFor goodness\u2019 sake, we in the Finance and Expenditure Committee have spent the last two meetings talking about KiwiSaver. Well, what is the point when the Minister has recently shown such incompetence in absolutely annihilating what good Kiwis have tried to save? Kiwis were just trying to do the right thing; they were just trying to save.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ELet us have a little look at this hall of shame of incompetence and incredible commercial naivety. First of all, the Minister apparently dropped a confidential, very sensitive Cabinet paper behind a photocopier, and it ended up in a smoko room. Well, let us think that through for a moment. It also begs the question, once we finally deal with this issue, of what other confidential papers may be lurking behind unsuspecting photocopy machines around the Cabinet Office. Adding to our list, after the Minister leaked he held a press conference and gave the press a statement that fessed up, a little bit. But it showed his incredible naivety. He is totally oblivious of how the financial markets work. He said that the New Zealand market was closed\u2014quite correct\u2014but that the Australian market was still open. Australians were still trading Telecom shares! The list of shame gets longer by the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022353b5efe7e734785939d4c7cb6218668\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022353b5efe7e734785939d4c7cb6218668\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E For those listening who may be confused by the speeches they have heard this afternoon, we can confirm that National will, of course, vote for the telecommunications package that it has spent the whole general debate opposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI start by saying how nice it was to hear Katherine Rich speaking in the general debate. Katherine Rich, who is so often muzzled by her own party\u2014in the fear that she might say something liberal\u2014often has very good things to say, and I welcome her back to speaking in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EIt has not been a very good couple of weeks for the Opposition. It started with Judith Collins deciding that standing up for herself at a p\u014Dwhiri and sitting in the front row would win votes for the National Party. I was on the Social Services Committee in the last term, and I visited youth justice facilities. It is not like going to the head office of the Inland Revenue Department. For the troubled young people who are there it is their home. The people who run those facilities do a lot of preparation and make quite an effort, and I cannot imagine how difficult it is for them to organise those young people into doing a formal p\u014Dwhiri. They make a considerable effort to teach young people the values and traditions behind those customs. So when people go to such places they know they will not always do so on their terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI cannot believe the arrogance of Judith Collins, who thinks she can put up a challenge like that during a p\u014Dwhiri and not expect the challenge to be given back to her by the kaum\u0101tua. It was fine that she put up the challenge\u2014that was her decision\u2014but then she cried and huffed off with her handbag because the kaum\u0101tua stood up and challenged her straight back by saying that he was insulted. To describe her behaviour would be to use a word that we are not allowed to use in the House. I say to Judith Collins that she might want to explain why she is allowed to be offended by having to sit in the second row at a p\u014Dwhiri, but a kaum\u0101tua is not allowed to be offended by the way in which she chooses to demonstrate her opposition to that. If Judith Collins was speaking up for M\u0101ori women everywhere, then why was it that the M\u0101ori women at the p\u014Dwhiri were the most upset and offended by what she did? [Interruption] Yes, Judith Collins is a really good feminist\u2014she is really big on that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EIs it not interesting how Judith Collins was muzzled? During the first question time after that hearing of the Social Services Committee, a question from Judith Collins to Georgina Beyer, the chair of the Social Services Committee, was pulled. Judith Collins was muzzled\u2014and muddled. It just goes to show how divided the National caucus is. All its members are on their own paths and doing their own thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ESimon Power constantly goes on about New Zealanders needing to have confidence in the police force. I say to Mr Power that he should stop running it down. He is the biggest critic of the police force\u2014often unfairly. He is always in the media running it down, and then he complains about how people do not have confidence in it. I tell members that after Mr Ron Mark\u2019s contribution we had a phone call from Mrs Cammell in Naenae, who is listening to the debate. She said she is delighted with the announcement of $500 million for extra police. Her son is joining the police force this month, and he is living his dream. That is what this Budget will be about: real issues facing real New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ETelecommunications is only one issue that National has backed down on. When the package was announced, Maurice Williamson came up with the position that we all expected the National Party to take, which was that it did not support it. Then, all of a sudden, it flip-flopped and now it does support the package. We have just heard a number of speeches that said how bad the package was, but we have also heard that the National Party not only will vote for the bill going to the select committee but, according to Mr Williamson, probably will vote for it progressing all the way to completion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI turn to tax cuts. We finally have recognition of what Labour was saying all through the election campaign, which was that the tax cuts that National was promising would not be affordable, and that when it got to try to implement them it would have to cut social services. We have had a press release from Dr Brash saying that National would review its tax policy: \u201CWe probably can\u2019t afford to do what we said before the election.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ERegarding race relations, who knows where the National Party stands on the issue of the M\u0101ori seats? Prior to the election it was all for getting rid of them. After the election Mr Brownlee said he was not really sure. Now National members are saying they are standing firm on that one. New Zealanders are no clearer on where National stands on race relations, particularly following the muzzling of Judith Collins after the p\u014Dwhiri debacle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI turn to relations with the United States. The National Party now supports the nuclear-free policy that it is was so adamant it did not support\u2014until it realised that the public supported it. It is no wonder that New Zealanders have no idea about not only what the National Party stands for but whether its members are rowing in the same direction. Don Brash\u2019s days are numbered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002280c83ee56e2b4326a1c0a1d8457b61ba\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232f996fb57bd4b679697d157b3c78e36\u0022\u003ETelecom\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0eaf0a775da4c7dae5f153c15db7715\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0eaf0a775da4c7dae5f153c15db7715\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a document that shows the collapse in Telecom\u2019s share price since Cabinet started leaking and the Minister of Communications started speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae8c9a6e5394cff9a2d098e29c97aae\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a06ed2ba1f29496fa4ba4a61cdcdf60b\u0022\u003ELaw Practitioners (Corporatisation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd7bfe5526d34b58b5f9838418c6229d\u0022\u003EDischarge\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u002214054bbd7ab3465c87d399c0e1bb157e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214054bbd7ab3465c87d399c0e1bb157e\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the order of the day for the second reading of the Law Practitioners (Corporatisation) Amendment Bill be discharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226757794eaea548b7b4953723c656208c\u0022\u003EMarine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022950629f227504c02ab52718107ce901f\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000447\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022d63b22999ac6494a8f9a2cf52d4b2cc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d63b22999ac6494a8f9a2cf52d4b2cc2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It is with real pleasure that I stand today to support the very effective member of Parliament for Invercargill, Eric Roy, on his Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill. This Labour Government is making an absolute hash of marine reserve creation all over New Zealand. Whether in Kaka Point in Southland or Great Barrier Island in Auckland, it is hard to find an area of New Zealand that the Government has not made a complete mess of in terms of consultation with its communities. Yet what we find with this Government is that for all Labour\u2019s promises in 1999 about marine reserves, it has made little progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIf members think back to 1999, they might remember that Labour said 10 percent of New Zealand\u2019s marine environment would be set aside for protection. Yet 7 years later that has been achieved in less than 1 percent of New Zealand\u2019s marine environment. I also draw to the House\u2019s attention the abysmal progress that has been made in respect of the Marine Reserves Bill. Eric Roy is doing the hard yards for the Minister of Conservation, Chris Carter. The Marine Reserves Bill was introduced and referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee in October 2002. That is more than 3\u00BD years ago. Labour has a bill, on which submissions were heard over 3 or 4 years ago, that has still not been reported back by the select committee. What sort of mickey mouse Government do we have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EEarlier this year, last year, and the year before that, National attempted to move motions in the select committee in order to achieve some progress. It was Labour and\u2014can members believe it\u2014the Green Party that opposed our getting on with the business and reforming the Marine Reserves Act of 1971. There is consensus in this Parliament that that 1971 Act is out of date and needs to be updated substantially. Under the 1971 Act, the sole purpose of a marine reserve is scientific. I think most of us today would say that marine reserves have a wider purpose than that. We want to have marine reserves so that people can simply enjoy the marine environment in its wild and natural state. We also want to have marine reserves because it is true that they strengthen the recreational fishing in adjacent waters. Yet again, we are disappointed that Labour has made absolutely no progress on that legislation. Labour needs to be held to account for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy colleague Eric Roy proposes that at the front end of the process for establishing marine reserves we inject consultation with the actual community. Has anyone ever heard of such a radical idea? Fancy having to talk to the local people! I know that for the Department of Conservation under Chris Carter, talking with the minions, the lowlife, the people in communities, is not something that Labour is used to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203afa78885c64c4e823e5f985ae46811\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the long-term community communication plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ba8f8a20bb476b9c1724e1f3608e2c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I did not know there was such a thing as a long-term communication plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a297efbe92fc425b991ae164ad22482c\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: The principle of community communication.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee31822748214c6bb94a4c50520a664c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! The member for Rotorua has suddenly woken up and is in favour of long-term community communication plans. What Labour is proposing in the area of local government is the most bureaucratic, expensive bull that I have heard of, and my good friend Nathan Guy, who is a new member of the House and a local councillor, knows that it is a consultation farce. National will not back that sort of rubbish; we will back the sorts of sensible measures that Eric Roy put forward, which reflect the fact that people actually care where marine reserves are situated. They want to have a say. That is where Labour is so misguided; it wants to see people buried in bureaucratic nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHas anyone ever heard of anything as stupid as a long-term community communication plan? Does the member for Rotorua think we have the sorts of residents out there who want to be having meetings on long-term community communication plans, for goodness\u2019 sake? I tell that member, who is so arrogant and so disconnected from her community, that people want to be consulted about marine reserves. They want be engaged with that issue early on. So I say to the member that I hope she will be supporting Eric Roy\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cf0758268b74480b564c0b825ca37a9\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: We are!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884651a3e0ff4399b65f3f235bcfd3c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am very pleased about that. That gives me some hope, but perhaps the member for Rotorua might explain why the Government has been stalling on the necessary reforms of the Marine Reserves Act for 4 long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u002224febc975c0a4fdfb97a64cd8904f6ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224febc975c0a4fdfb97a64cd8904f6ca\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c8b9b6d2664f638c7522f0b17fd267\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I should have called the member previously, so now she will need to seek the leave of the House to correct that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5526b86d06743ff915f27295ca2bd53\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to speak on behalf of the Hon Chris Carter, who had 8 minutes left to speak at the close of debate on the last members\u2019 day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022244b868d058a49698afc6d5e0663438f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dfab1c16985479c90a26e00760e8a60\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: It was my fault, Dr Smith. I should have called the member previously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022599e2b99979442b6953dce8e828652b8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Could you just clarify for the House that when a person has 8 minutes of speaking time left and is not available to be in the House, that time can automatically be transferred to another member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228e1a95bd7524b5db208edd768f641b6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it can be, but I was not advised of that. I did not realise. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. Steve Chadwick has 8 minutes of speaking time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba313cc3274468eaa8b45335cc08fe3\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to notify the Opposition that the Government will be supporting the Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill. How could we not, with that word \u201Cconsultation\u201D in the title? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a biologically rich and complex marine environment. Our exclusive economic zone is the fourth-largest in the world\u201415 times larger than our land area, and approximately the size of the continent of Australia. In effect, we are a marine nation. More than 15,000 marine species exist and are found in our waters, including more marine mammal species and other marine species than anywhere else in the world. This Labour-led Government is committed to providing better protection to that vast marine landscape. I congratulate Eric Roy on his member\u2019s bill, because it seems to be committed to improving the way we seek to provide better mechanisms to do just that\u2014to protect our marine environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe Government has a Marine Reserves Bill before the Local Government and Environment Committee, which I chair. The Marine Reserves Bill contains many of the provisions in Mr Roy\u2019s bill. In addition, the Minister of Conservation, Chris Carter, together with the Minister of Fisheries, Jim Anderton, launched a new Marine Protected Areas Policy last year. Perhaps that fact had escaped the member Nick Smith. The policy is designed to foster more consultation and collaboration between key stakeholders, local government, iwi, recreational and commercial fishers, conservationists, and central government in determining which marine areas we should protect. Again, that is a process that is remarkably similar in idea to this bill. Our committee may well decide to incorporate Mr Roy\u2019s bill with the existing bill. That is an option well worth considering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWhy are marine reserves so important to us? Well, they provide the most comprehensive, long-term legal protection of any protection tool for the marine environment. A wide range of human activities and impacts, such as fishing, discharges, structures, and pests, can be prohibited or managed in an integrated way within marine reserves. Marine reserves aim to protect marine life within them in as natural a way as possible. There are now 28 marine reserves, so I take exception to Nick Smith\u2019s allegation that the Government has done nothing. We have 28 marine reserves established in New Zealand waters, with a further three reserves having been approved and currently being surveyed prior to being declared marine reserves via Orders in Council. Collectively, those reserves protect 7.6 percent of New Zealand\u2019s territorial sea. However, 99 percent of that is in two reserves around isolated offshore islands, the Auckland Islands and the Kermadec Islands, and very little\u2014in fact even less of the area\u2014is in New Zealand\u2019s smallest national park, the Abel Tasman National Park, in our mainland territorial sea. Of New Zealand\u2019s total marine environment, just 0.3 percent is protected in marine reserves. Currently, the highest level of protection outside our territorial sea\u2014that is, 12 nautical miles offshore\u2014is through Ministry of Fisheries closures on trawling of 18 seamounts. Those closures bring the area of marine protection in New Zealand to just over 3 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe know that marine reserves work and, as the Hon Nick Smith said, there are far wider benefits, such as educational benefits. Marine reserves are great places for school trips and projects. Marine education centres in Leigh, Wellington, Auckland, Napier, and Dunedin are testimony to children\u2019s interest in their maritime heritage. There are research benefits that we are all learning about as we go along, and there are also economic benefits. Marine reserves do not just bring back the fish and other marine life; they can also benefit local people. The 200,000-plus visitors a year to the marine reserve near Leigh have contributed significantly to the local economy. Everything is connected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, we need marine reserves and other marine protected areas for good marine management, but we also need to deal more effectively with land-based impacts such as sediment and pollution. We need to ensure that activities are managed sustainably over the whole of our coastal and marine environment. I will enjoy looking at aspects of Eric Roy\u2019s bill in our select committee, particularly that of consultation upfront prior to declaring marine reserves. I am pleased we are supporting the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u002208a54866815144f28da49cf07e8a2283\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208a54866815144f28da49cf07e8a2283\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make the point that New Zealand First has long believed that the opportunity to throw out a fishing line and catch a fish is part of every New Zealander\u2019s birthright and must be protected for future generations. It is something that makes this country absolutely unique and special to live in and for young people to grow up in. But I have to say that recreational fishers\u2014and I am one myself\u2014are not silly. They recognise the benefits of reserves. They also recognise the benefits of the spillover, and how it actually improves their own take. But the Royal Forest and Bird Protection Society has an agenda to turn 20 percent of our coastal waters into reserves, and the Government has obviously indicated that it wants to turn 10 percent. Naturally, people are anxious and worried about that. Therefore, we believe that New Zealanders should be consulted about plans for reserves at an early stage of the process. So we will be voting for the bill to go to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EWe congratulate the member who introduced the bill, Eric Roy, because one can see his obvious experience from many years in select committees reflected in the way it was drawn up. We will await the select committee\u2019s scrutiny before we give a guarantee of continued support, however. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E I want to hark back to 1997 when I was a Minister and Dr Nick Smith was the Minister of Conservation. He invited me to a dinner in Ngunguru to meet with Dr Wade Doak and a number of other marine scientists to talk over the issue of the Poor Knights Islands, which were a partial reserve at that time but not a full reserve. We discussed the matter and then he consulted with me. He asked me whether I believed they should be turned into a full reserve. I admit that the arguments were compelling and I said yes, I did believe they should become a full reserve. There was opposition, particularly from recreational fishers but also from charter boat companies and other groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EI went to see the Poor Knights Islands for the first time a couple of months ago when there were celebrations for 25 years of the initial reserve having been set up. I had never been there before. The reserve is an absolute gem. If people have not visited the Poor Knights Islands they have not seen New Zealand. They have the biggest marine cave in the world. Evidently, a German submarine was put in there\u2014the one that lay the mines that blew up the Niagara during the war. But below the surface is just amazing. I have never seen snapper as big as that. I did not know they existed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a557ea816d54bd69f67f5e0d0eae93e\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: Rikoriko Cave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2203731668a4093ab1239fd96dd1114\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY\u003C/span\u003E: Rikoriko Cave, yes. I have never seen snapper the size I saw them there. [Interruption] They were massive. And there was a whole range of species. Probably the fish at Goat Island\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce57a00b3754cb486e560fc541c754e\u0022\u003EHon Mita Ririnui\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a marine reserve or what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022995f4e4c216f4b3fa1ea1be526ba4d2a\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY\u003C/span\u003E: It is a reserve. It is a massive reserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974b4ed4744c424f9b031ab1d805478e\u0022\u003EHon Mita Ririnui\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why did you catch it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aedfacaa63aa416abfa7cc4d56dc0f89\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY\u003C/span\u003E: I did not catch it. I was under the water looking at them. I was just looking at them, and it was a fantastic experience. [Interruption] The member would not have been looking at them; he would have been under the water catching them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThere are probably more fish around Goat Island, but the range of species around the Poor Knights Islands is magnificent. By talking that night to the scientists, and to Wade Doak himself, I learnt they are flabbergasted at how quickly the whole area has been replenished and the water has been restocked with fish, particularly stocks of snapper. So I say to Dr Nick Smith that people out there were full of praise. He made a courageous decision and it actually paid off. He made the right decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EHowever, there is still some grumpiness left, and it is not over whether he made the right decision\u2014the charter boats just turned into diving charter boats\u2014it is about the fact that people were not consulted. Nick Smith has said that this Government has made a complete mess of the consultation process, and unfortunately it was not strong at that particular time, either. In particular, Ng\u0101ti Wai, who perceive themselves as the kaitiaki, and Ng\u0101ti Taka, which is the hap\u016B in Ngunguru itself, believe that the National Government rolled straight over them and did not consult them. They agree that there should be a reserve there, and they have argued for it, but they also believe that they should have been part of the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EAll that we in New Zealand First can say is that we believe that this bill, by having consultation at an early stage of the whole process, will overcome some of the grumpiness and leave it behind. The same outcomes will flow through because of the genuine benefits that such reserves provide to New Zealand. I also say that if people have not been to the Poor Knights Islands, they should use the opportunity over the Christmas holidays to take a trip up to Northland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2999f8d49144e49850aa9e4b9759027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2999f8d49144e49850aa9e4b9759027\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thirty percent of New Zealand land is in national parks. It is outrageous that one cannot shoot birds, log trees, or mine on that 30 percent of New Zealand land! But I do not hear a huge outcry among the New Zealand public to reduce that figure to 1 percent. Less than 1 percent of our coastal waters is in marine reserves, yet there is a huge outcry every time there is a proposal to protect a tiny area of marine ecosystem so that it can regenerate to something like its original state. We have vast areas where there is no restriction on fishing. We have a few very small areas where we say nature has to have its place, too, and there has to be a place where all New Zealanders can see the marine ecosystem as it originally was. In places such as Leigh, where the marine ecosystem can be seen as it originally was, it is just astonishing to see how biodiversity has regenerated since fishing and other extractive abuses stopped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is strongly in favour of consultation and of communities being involved in the location of marine reserves, but better provisions for this are in the Government\u2019s new Marine Reserves Bill, which has been languishing in front of this Parliament\u2014in fact, in front of the select committee I used to chair\u2014for years now. I can understand Eric Roy\u2019s frustration that that bill does not seem to be going anywhere, despite the select committee having heard all the submissions on it, given it a lot of consideration, and formed some pretty strong views across the House about changes we could make. Those changes would improve consultation, improve the role of iwi and hap\u016B, and prevent the current perception that the Department of Conservation is playing the role of judge, jury, and executioner on the whole issue. But the Government simply will not progress the bill. It was a huge disappointment to me, when I was chairing the Local Government and Environment Committee, that Government members were not prepared to advance the bill, and it seems they are still not prepared to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESo I can understand Eric Roy\u2019s frustration, and his wanting to bring in a bill that deals with only the consultation side of the issue. But that is not the right way to do it. We need to review the whole marine reserves situation. The 1971 legislation is anachronistic, it is out of date, and it does not deal with the modern world. It does not, for example, provide a proper role for iwi and hap\u016B in the decision making and management of marine reserves. The new bill can do that\u2014it already does so, to some extent, and there are ways in which it can be amended to further do so. I do not believe we should put an amendment bill through the House that deals with only the question of consulting people who want to fish. We have a substantial bill sitting on the Order Paper that will deal with that question and many other things, as well. That bill will give us the opportunity to protect biodiversity, at the same time as providing plenty of areas where people can go fishing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill is not the way to take the issue forward. I challenge the Government to let the Marine Reserves Bill be debated at the Local Government and Environment Committee, and to let some of the work that that select committee did last year and the year before reach fruition. The Greens will not support this interim bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022d216d45c0f204aea9a0a5967e9c641b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d216d45c0f204aea9a0a5967e9c641b4\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou te Whare. The M\u0101ori Party will support this bill, in line with our principle that we believe in the right of people to have a say. In its purpose and intention, the commitment to amend the Marine Reserves Act to ensure early consultation in the preparation of any application for the declaration of a marine reserve is positive. We encourage any opportunity for people to participate, and for voices to be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EConsultation is a key concept in honouring the Treaty relationship. I want to be clear that when we talk of consultation, we do not mean the types of consultation exercises that may occur with interest groups, such as fisher people, surfers, skiers, tourism operators, and so on. I want to say in this House that mana whenua are not an interest group. They are the Treaty partner and, therefore, consultation on the preparation of a marine reserve application must always be inclusive of any group that represents mana whenua interests. Te Tiriti o Waitangi provides for the exercise of k\u0101wanatanga, while actively protecting the tino rangatiratanga of mana whenua in respect of their natural, physical, and spiritual resources. In order to exercise governance and protect and preserve the full authority of mana whenua, consultation must be respected and an honourable process must be followed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EA considerable body of case law has developed on the principles of consultation. The leading case is the Court of Appeal case Wellington International Airport v Air New Zealand, and there is also the more recent Land Air Water Association v Waikato Regional Council decision. That case specifically discusses the principles of tangata whenua consultation. Although I am sure all members know those two foundation court decisions intimately, I ask them to let me recap. In its essence, consultation demands that the parties involved act reasonably and in good faith. In practice, that means entering into the process without having first made up one\u2019s mind about every aspect of one\u2019s position. It means having respect for the issues and the people with whom one is consulting, and not just doing the numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EFrom the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s point of view, any proposal that stops politicians from running roughshod through communities has to be a good thing. This bill will put a process in place by which\u2014through consultation\u2014the applicant must explore ways in which the application may avoid or mitigate adverse effects on existing uses of the area of the proposed marine reserve. That may rectify or avoid such disasters as have occurred for mana whenua in the past, such as in June 2005, when the Minister of Conservation, Chris Carter, announced the establishment of a marine reserve off Great Barrier Island in the Hauraki Gulf, with scant regard for the interests of the mana whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe taking of Kaikoura Island and the Ng\u0101ti Wai islands represented the very worst of processes possible in the setting up of marine reserves without consultation. Ng\u0101ti Wai and Ng\u0101ti Rehua exercise mana whenua over the north-east coastal area, and Ng\u0101ti Maru also has an interest in the north-east coast and marine areas. Those iwi were not uninterested parties. They were groups that had offered an alternative strategy that provided a partnership approach for marine protection. Ng\u0101ti Wai was committed to working with the Government in the interests of marine protection, and had also suggested a co-management approach. Instead, the rug was literally pulled out from under its feet and it was forced, subsequently, to take action in the High Court to challenge the decisions from on high about offshore islands and marine reserves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe must not cut across mana whenua rights. We must hear the voices of those people, and we must stop the relentless theft of property rights. If this bill can provide a stop to that process in time to really address Treaty-based rights, we will all be doing well. The M\u0101ori Party will support this bill going to the select committee in order to ensure appropriate representation of and input from mana whenua in decision making, and that their rohe is provided for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00225032b2920f48407ca420bfa5cfe67fad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225032b2920f48407ca420bfa5cfe67fad\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by congratulating the member Eric Roy on having the Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill drawn from the ballot. United Future is very delighted that this bill has been drawn from the ballot, because it is extremely topical and\u2014as Tariana Turia has also mentioned\u2014very controversial, from a number of points of view. United Future members will be supporting this bill going through its first reading and on to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI should say at the outset that the principal reason for that is that the bill fits in exactly with United Future\u2019s political philosophy. Our political philosophy can be summed up in the principle of subsidiarity. Some people in this House may be very familiar with that term; other people may never have heard of it. It simply means that political power should be devolved to the most appropriate level at which a decision should be taken. In other words, it means that decisions proper to a family should be taken by the family. I guess we can go even lower and say that decisions proper to an individual should be taken by that individual. So we have the family, the local community, the local town, the city and\u2014only then, and finally\u2014the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIt is appropriate that in the situation considered in the bill, we give much more regard to consultation with the people affected. When a decision is made about a marine reserve, a group of people in that location will be primarily affected; therefore, they must have a say. It is interesting, too, from the point of view of the remarks made by the Hon Tariana Turia, that the first time I ever came across the word \u201Csubsidiarity\u201D was when a group of M\u0101ori came to talk to me and used the word. I had to ask them what it meant, and they pointed me back to a social encyclical given by a Catholic Pope about a hundred years ago. That principle has therefore been a cornerstone of Catholic social teaching to this day\u2014for more than a hundred years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWhen that group of Catholic M\u0101ori discovered the principle in a papal document, they were tremendously encouraged. They said to me that precisely the whole problem about the implementation of the Treaty was that the principle of subsidiarity had not been followed. It must mean of course, as the previous speaker has mentioned, that we bring iwi and hap\u016B, and those with mana whenua, into the process\u2014not just as some window dressing exercise, and not just so that a Minister can stand up here and say that people have been spoken to or even consulted, but so that those people have been involved in the decision-making process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe process is the one that Eric Roy is bringing before the House in this bill. He is saying that those decisions must be taken, effectively, with the support of local communities, and that that process takes consultation to its logical conclusion. When members think about that position, they will realise that it is obviously the right position to be in. It is much better for decisions about marine reserves to be taken with the support of local and affected people\u2014all of those we have mentioned: fishers, tourists, recreational users, sailors, tourism operators, and so on. All those people need to be involved in the process and, ideally, they should feel that the outcome is one they have had a part in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThis philosophy is much to be preferred to the nanny State philosophy that I must confess I see exhibited constantly in this House by the Green Party. That philosophy pretends that some people in our society, who claim to have a much greater reverence for the environment than others, for example, somehow have a superior wisdom, and that their view should prevail against other people\u2019s views. I do not believe that that is where wisdom lies; I believe that it lies at local community level. I believe that it lies with the people affected by the decisions, and that they, therefore, should be consulted and be part of the process. So United Future has great pleasure in signalling its support for this bill on its first reading, and we will vote accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00223a041b9619e448d582e12c647799d684\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a041b9619e448d582e12c647799d684\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to endorse many of the sentiments in this Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill that was introduced by a fellow colleague from the deep south. While I am on my feet, I will say that I hope he takes our aroha and our mihi back to the wh\u0101nau of Rakiura and the deep south area, given the tragedy that has befallen key families in that community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAs someone who has had some experience in maritime and marine affairs, what I like about this bill\u2014which I, along with my colleagues, endorse going to the select committee\u2014is that it enables interested individuals, stakeholders, and tangata whenua to contribute and participate. Marine reserves are a controversial development. Obviously, we want to see an improvement in ecosystem outcomes and in people participating in, using, and recreating in their local areas. But at the same time, none of us actually want to see the potential of the marine environment completely locked up or dedicated to a single purpose. It is inevitable that marine reserves are controversial, but unless there is participation and exchange of ideas, that aggravation and controversy leads to people digging a ditch and not finding a way out of it. Obviously, there are some overlap areas with our marine protected areas policy that was released earlier in the year. Marine reserves provide microcosms that enable people to see the variety of sea life and our young people to learn. More important, they can be a focal point so that we can reacquaint ourselves as to how important it is not only to understand but to participate in the development of marine resources, and to take more responsibility in our localities for the health of the marine environment in those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThose of us in the fishing industry have developed, over the years, some rather dim views about how marine reserves have been pushed willy-nilly by the more strident advocates from the environmental movement. Naturally, we share some concerns with them, but at the end of the day, the M\u0101ori view is not a preservationist view. If there is a M\u0101ori view, it is a conservationist and sustainable use view, because if everything is locked up and preserved, then one does not live. If there is one thing that can be learnt about the history of M\u0101ori, it is that they are very adaptable people. They have altered their customs and attitudes to suit the vicissitudes of the circumstances they find themselves in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe select committee, when it deals with this proposed legislation, should remain alive to the prospect that nothing stays the same and nothing is static.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0afd4ec85b04f05ba707d6f2cd44595\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0afd4ec85b04f05ba707d6f2cd44595\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in favour of the Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill. At present, anybody can apply to create a marine reserve, and once the process is struck the public becomes less and less involved in the process. This bill, through legislation, ensures not only the need to consult but also to do so thoroughly during the preparation of the application. The bill specifies that consultation must include groups that are actually representative of the community that lives by the sea, people who use the sea for recreation and for earning a living through commercial fishing and/or tourism, plus those who have an association culturally and through heritage, such as the tangata whenua, who, we heard earlier this evening, also claim the right through being a Treaty partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe key to the need for this bill is that the present Marine Reserves Bill was referred to a select committee on 15 October 2002, and I understand that it has largely been neglected by the Government. It has not been reported back to the House. We heard from one of the previous Labour speakers about a maritime protection consultation process that was prepared last year by the present Minister of Conservation and the Minister of Fisheries. One of these new groups, the West Coast Marine Protection Forum, has in fact been established and has been working since, I think, last September. I attended one of its inaugural meetings at Hokitika. It has since been holding a number of other meetings throughout the Coast, from Haast north. I spoke recently to the chairman of that group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWhy then, if that group is already in place, do we need the new bill? The forum has representation from fishermen, interest groups, the Department of Conservation, and the Ministry of Fisheries. I guess the reason we need this bill, though, is that it establishes a group through legislation. Based on the experience of the forum to date, this bill has two key elements that will give the public some confidence, for, sadly, the public seem to be losing trust in the present Government and its agencies in a wide range of activities that affect them. They do indeed. As stated in a report in the Greymouth Evening Star of 27 April, we are dealing with people on the Coast who do not deal with cosmetic change. They understand real change. The meeting was packed out with angry people. The sorts of comments called out did not indicate a great sense of trust in the present Government and its agencies, based on the past or even looking to the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c90067906de4bfab4f5ac4517198732\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Labour has abandoned the West Coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022859f5f5999024acb9e700c830ccddec5\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: Labour has abandoned the West Coast, indeed. A previous Labour voter told me: \u201CLabour has left the Coast. The Greens want everybody else to leave the Coast. Thank God National\u2019s coming back.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe forum is driven and established by the Department of Conservation, which was very well-intentioned in doing so, and the Ministry of Fisheries, which was very well-intentioned in doing so, but, in fact, it is not underpinned with the sort of legislation that looks after people in the way that Eric Roy\u2019s bill will. I guess that the feeling is that the consultation could turn out to be cosmetic, as so many other activities of this Government have turned out to be. People on the Coast are not happy with cosmetic consultation. They are not happy with being told they have been consulted when they have not, but they will be happy with this bill, and I congratulate Eric Roy on its introduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThat is the feeling that this Government and its agencies have generated in the minds of the public. There is a voiced concern that the Government has decided that 10 percent of the area will be put in reserve and there is a feeling of powerlessness to prevent the steamroller effect of an unfeeling Government having its own way regardless. We are not talking about a lack of public interest. Ninety people attended in Haast, which is a big part of the local population. The meetings throughout have been well attended. There is a call for people to have a referendum. The interest is high; the process is weak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b89229473dfe41f2bc11ee97735e4e66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b89229473dfe41f2bc11ee97735e4e66\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted that we have received a large degree of support for the Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill at its first reading. I thank members for the generosity of their comments, and I am looking forward to working on this bill in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ESomeone once said\u2014I am not sure who the original person was, because the comment has been plagiarised so frequently\u2014that we do not inherit the environment, the land or the sea, from our forefathers; we borrow it from our children\u2019s children. I think that is a sentiment that most of us have picked up on. I think that probably everybody here who has spoken today has concurred that marine reserves are important, that they are an integral part, as a tool, in the management of our marine environment, and that it is the degree to which we want to implement them that is the only difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ECan I just comment on one or two of the points that have been made in the course of the discussion on this bill. To Shane Jones, who commented on the tragic loss in Foveaux Strait of those returning from the Titi Islands, I say that, yes, I certainly will send the condolences of this House. In fact, if it were not for this bill, I would have attended the first funeral, which was held this afternoon. The others are to be held this Saturday at 11 o\u2019clock in Bluff, and I will take the love and condolences of this House, as Shane asked me to, when I attend on that occasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EAs far as the bill is concerned, the point has been made that the process of marine reserves has largely stalled except for one stunning exception, which is the Guardians of Fiordland\u2019s Fisheries and Marine Environment and the establishment of eight marine reserves in Fiordland. That was done simply by a process of consultation. It is largely on that model, as I said in my introductory remarks, that I have based this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe Greens have chosen not to support this bill, which I am a little bit disappointed about. Can I make a couple of comments with regard to that. Yes, there is another bill at the select committee, but it has been sitting there for some time, and one of my intentions is to shake that with the passing of this resolution, so I look forward to their support in progressing that. In terms of consultation, this bill is somewhat more broad and requires a wider degree of consultation than does the 2002 bill, as I read it. I think that is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe other significant difference is that the bill I have introduced requires some elements of mitigation, and I think, certainly after speaking with members privately, that there is a degree of discomfort with that among the Greens. Can I say that it is simply common sense, and that if we take that out of the formula in setting marine reserves, they stall, and that is what has happened. Let me give members some examples. The Hon Brian Donnelly spoke of the establishment of a marine reserve at the Poor Knights Islands. The charter vessels did not want to buy into it, but, once it was established, the mitigation was that they changed their modus operandi from catching fish to diving and looking, and they did not miss out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E Probably a more significant example is in Fiordland where, in this very hostile part of New Zealand, anchorages are a key safety element. I began this part of the debate by talking about a tragedy in the Southern Ocean. What was required, for those people who were opposing the marine reserves, was anchorages. Every time an anchor is dropped down in some of these areas, black and red corals that could be 1,000 years old are being pulled up. In order to overcome that, the mitigation was to create some permanent anchors. What a simple, common-sense answer that is to the element of mitigation that this consultation actually requires. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThis is a common-sense bill. It requires consultation. With consultation comes success, with consultation comes ownership, and ownership will give the protection we need. I commend the House to vote for this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002278bed46c1c2e485ea29a833bcf205226\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Marine Reserves (Consultation with Stakeholders) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000521\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Local Government and Environment Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002211e8357b40d842169326abd69d44aa61\u0022\u003EDog Control (Cancellation of Microchipping Requirements) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002228a4dfc492874af480ffd606334ad940\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u00229eb751e13f0240278b1e0ec2fb6779f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229eb751e13f0240278b1e0ec2fb6779f6\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Dog Control (Cancellation of Microchipping Requirements) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. When the time comes I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Local Government and Environment Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThis bill is the first opportunity for Parliament to consider whether the compulsory microchipping of all dogs is either necessary or useful. It is also an opportunity for the public to be heard on this issue at a select committee. It is a totally common-sense amendment that is supported by most councils, vets, dog owners, farmers, and many others. I hope all members will vote for the bill to go to a select committee so that there can be democratic consideration on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe current law is that menacing, dangerous, or unregistered impounded dogs can and should be microchipped, and that is happening. This bill does not change that. The current law also requires that from 1 July this year all dogs that are newly registered must be microchipped. That is what my bill repeals. The public and Parliament were horrified a few years ago by a series of vicious attacks on children that left them seriously injured and maimed. The poster child was Carolina Anderson, and I acknowledge the shocking nature of her injuries. The outcry over those attacks led to the passing of a package of measures to improve the powers of local authorities to control dogs. Those measures were well-thought-through. They have been working, and councils already report a reduction in the number of incidents involving dogs, although the provisions to microchip all dogs have not yet taken effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Greens argued in the House at the time that we did not see the microchipping of all dogs as useful or necessary, but it was not possible to separate it from the rest of the package at that time. So, with some misgivings, we voted for the bill as a whole. We are pleased we did, because there has been some improvement in the control of dangerous dogs. But, since then, the issue has raised its head again, and in the calmer environment that prevails now it is easy to see that universal microchipping will not improve child safety, but will impose costs and bureaucracy on hundreds of thousands of dog owners. So it is time to think again. I do not think Parliament should be ashamed of having another think about a decision it made in the heat of the moment, when that decision has since been shown to be questionable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EIf I thought there was the remotest chance of children being protected from what happened to Carolina by the current microchipping law, I would not be promoting this bill. But logic prevents anyone from drawing that conclusion. Let us look at the arguments. Will the existence of a microchip in a dog prevent it from attacking a child? Clearly not. Even the Government is not making that claim. Will a microchip help to determine which dog has attacked a child, so that it can be caught and destroyed? Clearly not. A microchip is not a locator beacon, it is not a Global Positioning System mechanism, and it is not a miniature camera; it is just a record of ownership and age. So when a dog attack occurs and the dog cannot be found, a chip will not help to find it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI remember the trouble we had on the farm when a neighbouring dog\u2014a farm dog, as it happens, and I will come back to that later\u2014savaged 15 of our prime lambs. Half of them were killed, and the others were so horribly mutilated that we had to shoot them. We eventually identified the dog because it had wool between its teeth, which is what one looks for when trying to find the dog that did the damage in that situation. A microchip would not have helped. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWhat about when a dog attacks and is caught? The chippers argue that the chip will identify the owner, who can then be held accountable. That is the one argument that does work, but it will not help the child and it will not help any child in the future, either. A dog that is found guilty of a savage attack, such as the one on Carolina Anderson, will be destroyed. A dog that is found guilty of a less serious offence will be microchipped under existing law before it is released, or it will be destroyed if its owner will not agree to pay for the chip. A second offence will always be known to be a second offence. We do not need universal microchipping to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe chippers argue that if a dog that is classed as dangerous or menacing moves around the country, it will be hard to track and recognise as a potentially dangerous dog. That is right, and that is why we fully support the chipping of dogs after a first offence or menacing behaviour. My bill does not change the law in that respect. Then there is the argument that a chip will help to reunite a straying dog with its anxious owner. That is true. That is why all owners will retain the option of chipping their dog if they are worried about its safety and if it has a tendency to stray. That is a good idea. I think it is great that dog owners have that option, but there is no point in making it compulsory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EOne problem that occurs now is that many of the worst-behaving dogs, which have been trained to be badly behaved, are not registered at all. Some figures suggest that half of the dogs that carry out attacks are not registered\u2014they have no collars, and the law does not know about them at all. Do we really think that people who will not register their dogs for a comparatively low fee will microchip them for an extra $70? I doubt it\u2014not when it is going to cost extra, and not when the owners know they have trained those dogs to be menacing. The remedy for those dogs, when they are found to be menacing or dangerous, is that they are either put down or microchipped compulsorily at that stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThere has been a very strong lobby for a special exemption to this law for farm dogs or working dogs. Why do the Greens not support that? Should we not support half a loaf, instead of no bread? Not when it makes the other half taste really bad. How are we to decide what is a working dog and what is a farm dog? What about dogs for the blind? How will hunting dogs on farms, which are sometimes the worst offenders, be classified? Are they working dogs? In fact, at the public meetings that Federated Farmers conducted around the Waikato, the animal control officer from south Waikato described the amendment as unworkable and said that when trying to exempt farm dogs, the line between working or farm dogs and other dogs cannot be defined. She ought to know. She is right there on the front line dealing with dogs now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESecondly, what evidence has been put forward to show that farm dogs are less dangerous than other dogs? There is no evidence that I have seen. And if farm dogs are exempted, the costs to owners of all other dogs would be increased. Those owners would then have to, among themselves, pay for the total costs of the national dog database. Why should farm dogs be exempted when farmers already have tax deductibility for their charges, and grandma with her poodle in the city does not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EFederated Farmers changed their position and they now support the Greens\u2019 view. Federated Farmers said at the meetings in the Waikato that they had made a tactical mistake by seeking an exemption initially, and that restricting microchipping to notifiable dogs was the better position morally, politically, and tactically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI thank the National Party members for coming round on this and supporting our bill, as I understand they will do. I think they have adopted a good position. I thank the M\u0101ori Party and ACT for supporting the bill, and I urge United Future to think about what it is really doing when it votes at the end of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002247a34d2fd1dc4807b8e39bf89b9b9f46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247a34d2fd1dc4807b8e39bf89b9b9f46\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I have looked forward for some time under an MMP Parliament to when the Greens could put forward a member\u2019s bill that the National Party would agree was a very sensible initiative and could proudly support. I take this opportunity of congratulating Jeanette Fitzsimons on picking up the depth of concern in both rural and urban New Zealand against the stupidity of the legislation that had been advanced by the Labour Government. I further congratulate Jeanette Fitzsimons on drafting a bill by 10 o\u2019clock in the morning and being able to secure it out of the ballot, in the archaic system we still operate for members\u2019 bills, by about 12 o\u2019clock the same day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe bill does give New Zealand a chance to debate the stupidity of the issue yet again. If we do not have success in Parliament tonight, depending on the votes of United Future and New Zealand First, this will not be the end of the matter. The legislation will still come back before Parliament with the local government amendment legislation that is currently before the select committee. Parliament has already accepted two further amendments in my name, which will further debate this issue and give parliamentarians the chance to reconsider the stupid position that Labour has got itself into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe current legislation imposes a huge cost on all dog owners, for absolutely no advantage. I have seen some costings recently that suggest rural New Zealand alone will face a cost of $3 million each and every year, because of the legislation advanced by the Labour Government. Labour originally argued that a microchip in the neck of a dog would stop dog attacks. We now have about 40 or 50 people in New Zealand, all Labour members of Parliament, who are still stupid enough to believe that. But all other New Zealanders who have given thought to this issue know that a microchip in the neck of a dog will not stop one dog attack whatsoever. So the question needs to be asked as to why all dog owners will be saddled with a huge compliance cost when it will not achieve what Helen Clark said it was going to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe other argument that I have heard from Helen Clark is that it will not really cost very much money, because people will be able to insert the microchip themselves. Can members imagine people being able to put a huge needle into the neck of a dog themselves without seriously hurting that animal? But then if people were to do that, the stupidity of the legislation that Helen Clark passed means that people then have to take the dog down to the vet anyway, to get the vet to verify that the microchip is there in the first place. In other words, Helen Clark should wake up. Her suggestion will not cut the compliance costs at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBut the next issue that worries me is that if the legislation remains as is, it will be totally unenforceable. We have now had councils coming to Parliament over recent weeks, saying that they will either completely ignore the law or give it low priority. I ask members of Parliament what the point is of persisting with a law that puts a compliance on to local councils, when the local councils say themselves they simply will not enforce it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe third reason I support Jeanette Fitzsimon\u2019s bill tonight is that, in actual fact, the legislation of the Labour Government will be counter-productive. I have been speaking to thousands of New Zealand farmers who now regularly register their dogs on an annual basis and get absolutely nothing for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711d0e1e14f34ede848986219179246d\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s for hydatids control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e403bed25e48e1a71de3a99f083dd7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Hydatids control went out years ago. Farmers get absolutely nothing for their registration fees. People pay $20 a year to register their dog with the Banks Peninsula District Council. They get a little plastic tag, and I tell Brian Donnelly that that is it. There is no hydatids control at all. So those people are saying now they will not even register their dog if they are forced to microchip it. In other words, we will see an increase in the number of unregistered dogs right throughout rural and urban New Zealand because of Labour\u2019s legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ENow let us look at the politics of this issue. New Zealand First members\u2014absolute poodles to the Government\u2014have lined themselves up and said that they will vote this legislation down, and when my amendments are before the House they will vote with the Government. I spoke to Brian Donnelly an hour or so ago. He said they have been talking to the Government and have done a deal. They are going to see how the law works for the next 3 years, and then they are going to demand a review of the legislation. Well, I have news for Brian Donnelly: he will not even be in Parliament in 3 years\u2019 time. Winston Peters has taken his bauble. He is a Minister of the Government. As soon as he has finished with that he is off to the High Commissioner\u2019s job in London, and New Zealand First will not even be in Parliament to demand a review of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBut if one thinks New Zealand First\u2019s position is stupid and illogical, then let us think about where United Future has got itself. Gordon Copeland, who has been in the rural media time after time arguing for an exemption for farm working dogs, is going to table an amendment before Parliament. He has been saying that now for 8 weeks. He still does not have any amendment before Parliament, and I do not think he will actually deliver one. He is all talk, and that is what the rural media are saying. More important, what they are really saying is that if Gordon Copeland thinks microchipping farm dogs is bad, why is he going to vote to support the Government tonight and, in actual fact, force all dogs to be microchipped? I ask Gordon Copeland what the logic is in that. He is strangely quiet, because he knows there is absolutely no logic at all to United Future\u2019s position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThis is a very sensible piece of legislation. There is an argument that, dangerous dogs been identified, they should be microchipped. Jeanette Fitzsimon\u2019s bill allows that to happen. Why saddle a cost on all good dog owners\u2014responsible and law-abiding people\u2014for the sake of a few dogs that attack people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31dd9feaf094fe2957081cb7e75b1e6\u0022\u003EHon Member: \u003C/span\u003EIt\u2019s a business expense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c7ffc9337c64fff8d470cd8c5165308\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, now those members over there argue that it is a business expense. That is what is wrong with them. They say that because it is a business expense, it is not another compliance cost. They say it is deductible at the end of the year, so it does not matter. I say to Ron Mark he should wake up while he still has 2 more years in this place. He should wake up and realise that the farmers of New Zealand are absolutely fed up to the back teeth with compliance costs. Whether or not it is tax deductible makes no difference at all. It is a cost that will not achieve a thing. [Interruption] And now he says we should microchip cows. I asked Ron Mark to tell us, when he takes a call in this debate, where the legislation that forces any farmer to microchip a cow is. There is not any! That is how much that man knows about rural New Zealand. He knows nothing about rural New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWhat has happened is that Helen Clark and the Labour Government face a very embarrassing defeat over this issue. Helen Clark and Heather Simpson have been on the phone, and they have this stupid position lined up with their two \u201Cpoodle\u201D parties, which will support the Government. What New Zealand First and United Future do not realise is that the public of New Zealand is wholeheartedly opposed to microchipping and to the stupidity of that legislation. The public is brighter than those members over there. At the next election\u2014members can mark my words\u2014this little issue will be a big issue in the minds of dog owners, and they will not forget which way United Future and New Zealand First voted tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00220fe80d28c8f04e6dbb161c6f0b0737d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fe80d28c8f04e6dbb161c6f0b0737d2\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Well, there we have it. We have had two contributions to this debate so far. The first was from the member whose bill this is, and although the Labour Government does not agree with Jeanette Fitzsimons on this issue, I acknowledge that this bill is a genuine attempt to find a position that she believes is correct. I think that attempt is genuine; I acknowledge that. By absolute contrast with that we then had Mr David Carter\u2019s speech. Mr David Carter is from the National Party. It may surprise many people to know\u2014in fact, it may surprise many members of the public to know\u2014that we are not actually enacting legislation about dog microchipping in Parliament tonight. People would not know that from listening to some of the comments Mr Carter has been making around the countryside, helpfully confusing people. In fact, far from that being the case, it may interest many members of this House to know that he was the spokesperson for one of the many parties in the House that voted for the current legislation. Even some of Mr Carter\u2019s own colleagues\u2014the new National members\u2014may not know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222803242479114b55a7c5a0cc8bf72759\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what we said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220be612b50b6475e94d45711d3395de8\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. I see some nervousness. There is some nervous twitching along the National Party benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222815c09d3a9d4a738d43655d3cb4f1b4\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt my colleague, but through the barrage of interjections I could not hear the Minister. I am pretty sure he just said the National Party had voted in favour of microchipping dogs in 2003, but I cannot hear him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32289b552d048a4ac7c16c9059892dc\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can confirm to the member that that is what I said, but I would be happy to repeat it if you would like me to, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef90fc0509447dc96f8d8c01b560991\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order; that is a debating point. The junior whip is making accusations in order to cast aspersions on the National Party. The barrage of interjections was coming not only in a mild form from the Opposition benches but also from the Government benches, so that claim is absolute nonsense. I know that the Minister Parekura Horomia, who is all smiles, was also interjecting in a raucous way, the like of which I have not heard before. I could not hear what the Minister was saying. These are debating points, not points of order, and I would ask that you rule in that light.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022544dd95d581d490382cc844ee46801fc\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I also take the opportunity to correct the Minister. I can assure him that all National members, and myself particularly, voted against the microchipping provisions in the bill. I suggest that the Minister checks Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a182c115f32b4109b60eabfae23eb855\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank all members for their contributions. None of them were points of order, but we will continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a66ad947ee84a8684794d796ccf0c78\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, nor are they debating points; it is a statement of fact. I see that a number of the outraged new National MPs\u2014who were not here at the time, so, to be fair, they cannot be held responsible\u2014have walked out. They have left in absolute disgust. They feel betrayed by David Carter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe Labour Government cannot support Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2019 bill, because to take us down the track that this bill suggests would be to undermine the very intent of the original legislation. I think it is important to remind the House of that, although I say again that I think Jeanette Fitzsimons made a measured and reasoned contribution. As I say, I disagreed with some of it, but it was measured and reasoned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003ESince then we have had the unfortunate interlude from Mr Carter, which has thrown utter confusion on to the debate. So let us revisit why Parliament\u2014by an overwhelming majority\u2014passed the enabling legislation. We did so in the face of some horrific injuries, particularly to children. Parliament considered legislation that put a number of measures in place to try to prevent such attacks. I emphasise that no one has ever suggested reasonably that microchipping per se will stop dog attacks on its own, in isolation\u2014nor is that the intent of the original legislation. There was never a belief that any single measure by itself, including microchipping, would reduce, or would be expected of itself to reduce, dog attacks. It is only when we put in such a measure in conjunction with other sensible measures, such as better identification, enhanced powers to seize dogs, tougher penalties, and the holding of irresponsible dog owners to account, that the measure makes sense. But in that context it does make sense, because it links the dog to an owner. If a dog is involved in an attack on a child or an attack on stock, it can be identified. The owner and the animal can be held to account, and that is the sensible point of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EFrankly, I am appalled at the impudence of members whose vote put that legislation in place because they saw the terrible photographs on television\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0002f09b13f4eb28060e89dbefc51f7\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Two of them are sitting over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228294be29065446338f226b2f714cd4be\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014that is right\u2014and in the newspapers. But when the opportunity came to jump on the bandwagon and the gratuitous opportunity to pull a few votes seemed to present itself, those members jumped in behind those sloganeers who are misleading the rural community, in particular, for the sake of a few cheap votes. I say to those members that sometimes in this Parliament the past catches up with them and the truth comes home to roost. I say to those members who had the good sense and decency to support a sensible measure as part of a package that they should have the good conscience to continue to do so now. To undermine it for the sake of a few\u2014they think\u2014cheap votes does them a discredit and it does this House a discredit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThis Parliament owes it to New Zealanders to ensure the sensible package of measures put in place by Parliament some 1\u00BD years ago is followed through, and to ensure we do everything we reasonably can to make New Zealand a safer place for our children and a safer place for farmers, who do want to look after their stock. We need to use this measure, alongside other measures, to provide proper accountability and good, safe practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022438796e69efe4bfb9fb451b399c83680\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022438796e69efe4bfb9fb451b399c83680\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am looking through the Standing Orders right now, and I seek your guidance in respect of the rules or the Standing Order that prevent or prohibit a member of the House from calling another member a liar. I would like you to assist me with that, because I have a question with regard to that rule. Although I acknowledge, understand, and would always comply with the Standing Orders, the question is, simply, what redress there is to ensure that a member who has blatantly lied in this House is called to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c25cc13760c49519f3d9fcdaf1cbf70\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, but I cannot assist you on that one, because I do not give either a comment or a ruling on a hypothetical case. If you have a real case to raise, you may do so by way of a point of order, and I can hear it. But in the way you have put it, there is nothing I can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e474730f30c745f8879c93cf3eddb375\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e474730f30c745f8879c93cf3eddb375\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have just heard the National Party member of Parliament the Hon David Carter state to the House neither he nor National voted for the Dog Control Amendment Bill. I have in my hand Hansard, Volume 613, dated 4 November to 20 November 2003. At page 10041, dated 13 November 2003, is the voting record that shows National voted for the Dog Control Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be9165e818bd44429237e1bba9527877\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. Indeed, New Zealand First has the next call and that issue is something that should be raised and refuted in your speech in the debate. It is not a point of order to be raised in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a250481b74e44c169fc758b0fa5062e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a250481b74e44c169fc758b0fa5062e7\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That member is trifling with the Chair. He knows that those are debating points and not points of order, and he is trifling with the Chair. While he continues to challenge the ruling\u2014because he is going for another call now\u2014that is a challenge to your authority and to what you have deliberated on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002297c6514d9e3846d88f313bff406339b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297c6514d9e3846d88f313bff406339b5\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table Hansard, Volume 613, at page 10041, specifically dated 13 November 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u002294d8afd214ed4cfc882b53d606bcbd91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294d8afd214ed4cfc882b53d606bcbd91\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by demonstrating just how political this debate has become. David Carter made a statement during his speech that dog owners have annual costs that they are getting nothing for. I actually agreed with him. Then I got a barrage of abuse from that side of the House, when I had actually agreed with the statement David Carter had made. That demonstrates that National members are not even listening; they are just playing politics. I will make another statement to demonstrate how political this issue has become. David Carter said Brian Donnelly and New Zealand First members have stitched up a deal with Labour. He made that statement at 7.55. I tell members that at 6.55 I was in conversation with his leader, Don Brash, and Mr Carter was nowhere in the room. Mr Carter said: \u201Can hour \u2026 ago\u201D, and 1 hour before 7.55 is 6.55. I was talking to Don Brash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EI think we need to get back to what this issue is about. In 2002 the father of Carolina Anderson came to Parliament. Any politician who had any drop of care and concern in their blood met with him. We were shown photographs. They were horrific and horrendous, and they galvanised this House to a resolve that it would do something about dog attacks on humans, but in particular dog attacks on children. Never before have I seen this House so galvanised to a unified resolve as I saw at that particular time. The resolve was to prevent or reduce those dog attacks. We have a horrendous level of dog attacks, and they are still continuing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EA select committee worked together on a whole package of things. It was not just microchipping; it was a whole package of amendments to the Dog Control Act that this House saw fit to bring in to reduce dog attacks. The legislation went through, and the resolve was cross-party. The legislation went through, and this House put it in place. It was a package. We have here today an attempt to send the package back to the sender before it has even been opened up and looked at. New Zealand First does have some questions around microchipping, but it seems absolutely stupid to take that package to bits before it has even been delivered. The legislation does not come into force until July; it is not until July this year that we start making any steps in this direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EMicrochipping is part of the package. I think Mark Burton made a very, very good point: National voted for that package. It voted against the amendment but it voted for that package at the third reading, and Mr Carter has to tell the world he voted for that package. New Zealand First is saying we have to give the opportunity for the package to go forward. A mate who represents New Zealand in dog trials rang me the other day. He went to Ireland, and the dogs all had to be microchipped. When they got to Ireland, there were dogs whose microchips could not be read because they had been damaged. There are some problems\u2014we are not denying that\u2014but the point is that this House agreed to this package and it needs to be put into practice. The package then needs to be assessed as to whether it is achieving its objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EWe should not forget that that objective is to minimise dog attacks on humans, but especially\u2014[Interruption] It is a package; we are not just talking about one thing. It is especially about our children. I think at the moment we are more concerned about sheepdogs and chihuahuas than we are about the children of our nation. Anybody who can remember those photographs of Carolina Anderson should not be here voting for this legislation at this time. New Zealand First will insist on a review of the legislation. That is what I said, because if it is not working, we will need to re-look at it. We will insist on that, but at this particular point in time we have to put in place the package that this House decided, cross-party, would meet its objectives, as it determined it would do, back in 2002.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022765a564f2df44f51bb66481da9c1f412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022765a564f2df44f51bb66481da9c1f412\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the M\u0101ori Party I say that we would be happy to support any bill that will put a stop to this microchipping of dogs mania that is sweeping through the House. Unfortunately though, I do not think this bill will achieve that. As Jane Clifton recently noted, the debacle around microchipping has been a regular dog\u2019s breakfast, with National and United Future begging for scraps through their various amendments and exemptions, Labour howling at the moon over the one law for all dogs, and even the normally serene Greens seemingly being caught up in it, as well. Indeed, the frenzy and ferocity of the debate reminds me of the song \u201CWho Let the Dogs Out?\u201D. That line is a Caribbean reference to disrespectful men who hit on women, and it is now a Kiwi reference to disrespectful politicians who hit on poor, defenceless, dumb dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWell, the M\u0101ori Party will not be party to this madness, because M\u0101ori have been there before. I refer to the infamous dog registration legislation of the late 1800s. I am the member for Te Tai Tokerau, and I know that the history of the dog tax and its forceful imposition in the Hokianga is etched on our tribal memory. The Hokianga County Council decided to impose a dog tax of 2s 6d per dog per owner. Back in those days that was big money. The people of Waim\u0101 rightfully refused to pay. Their dogs were their own, not the property of the Government or the council. The people were threatened with arrest and even with banishment from their homelands. And that was over a dog tax, for Christ\u2019s sake! The people eventually marched on the county headquarters in R\u0101wene to make their case, and the Government responded with its usual overdose of power by despatching 120 soldiers, two field guns, two Maxim guns, and a gunboat to deal with the natives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThat is a little like a politician in 2003 who misread the feeling of \u201Cnatives\u201D here, tried to stop a h\u012Bkoi of 40,000 by calling everyone \u201Chaters and wreckers\u201D, and then, when she realised she had failed, closeted herself away with a daggy old sheep she called Shrek. She overdosed in her response by ramming through the Foreshore and Seabed Act, from which the M\u0101ori Party was born\u2014the members of which rise every day to remind her of the foolishness of her ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn the midst of the \u201Cdog tax war\u201D my whanaunga Hone Heke Ng\u0101pua left Parliament and headed home to help diffuse the situation. Yet it was all in vain. Some people were arrested and imprisoned in Mount Eden Prison for treason. The dog tax remained, and the Government stopped Hone Heke\u2019s parliamentary pay while he was away, even though the Premier of the time, Dick Seddon, said he \u201Ccould recognise the patriotic and pure motives that prompted him, and the interest he had in his race.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI refer to that incident in Hokianga because I know that in another hundred years people will look back at this microchipping lunacy, and wonder what on earth was going through our minds, for us to spend so much time trying to keep tabs on dogs while hundreds and thousands of our own citizens are living below the poverty line. I can see Federated Farmers marching against this madness, just as my t\u016Bpuna did 100 years ago. I can see local councils doing everything they can not to comply with this stupidity, just as the Waim\u0101 police refused to collect the dog tax in 1898. Unless some sanity prevails in this House, I can see some poor bugger ending up in jail in order to satisfy the cravings of some lunatic for whom the microchipping of dogs has a higher priority than the health of the nation\u2019s humans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis proposed microchipping mess is like the movie Dumb and Dumber. Microchipping dogs is a dumb idea anyway, and trying to identify dangerous and menacing dogs so that we microchip only them is even dumber. I can just see it now\u2014and I know the Hon Parekura Horomia will understand this. Some poor, weedy little dog control officer will knock on the gate of the local Mongrel Mob pad and say: \u201CExcuse me sir, but I\u2019ve come to see whether your dogs are dangerous and menacing, in line with the Government\u2019s requirement that they be microchipped.\u201D The reply will be: \u201CWho do you think you are, you little nerd? Get out of here before I microchip you!\u201D. The dog controller, of course, will rush off to change his or her pants, and will summon up the courage to get the local cop to come along as protection\u2014as if the cops have time for that sort of silliness! The next day they will turn up, to find one of two scenarios: the first is that no dogs are there because the mob members have moved them somewhere else, and the other is that the whole chapter is there with every dog they can get their hands on, and they are all spoiling for a fight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EYes, the M\u0101ori Party wants a healthy society where the public are not threatened by dangerous and menacing dogs and, yes, we will support this bill\u2019s first reading, to try to generate some light on this sad affair. But out of respect to Hone Heke Ng\u0101hua and his whanaunga, who stood against a similar madness in 1898, the M\u0101ori Party urges the House to oppose this madness in 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6f3e779bb0c488ab56117a35ab8f93f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6f3e779bb0c488ab56117a35ab8f93f\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by informing the member Hone Harawira, who has just resumed his seat, that this bill is not about a tax on dogs. It is about repealing and overturning the decision taken by Parliament in 2003, with the support of all parties except ACT, to introduce a microchipping regime. I have already signalled quite clearly to this House that when we come to the Local Government Law Reform Bill, I will introduce a Supplementary Order Paper to exempt working farm dogs from the microchipping regime. In that debate and at that time I will spell out to the House in great detail the very, very good and numerous reasons why that class of dog should be exempt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EBut that is not to suggest United Future agrees with a total repeal of microchipping for all dogs\u2014with the single exception of dangerous, menacing, and impounded dogs\u2014which is what Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2019 bill would bring in. In talking about dangerous, menacing, and impounded dogs, I must say that when I was listening to the Hon David Carter\u2019s speech in the House, I thought to myself it was a pretty menacing kind of speech. It almost got to the stage of being a dangerous kind of speech, and I would say to the member that if he keeps going down that line, the day will arrive when he will probably be impounded. I think he should turn down the volume a bit and actually concentrate on some facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ELet us now look at some factual situations. As others, particularly Brian Donnelly, have pointed out, this all came about because of the attack on little Carolina Anderson in Auckland in 2002. In July 2003 this House, with the single exception of the ACT party, agreed to bring in a microchipping regime for all dogs. Why? It was with the intention of reducing and rolling back the number of dog attacks on New Zealand children. Let me tell the House that that date is now almost 3 years ago. In that time the number of dog attacks on children in this country has increased by a further 38 percent. There has been a 38 percent increase in the number of dog attack claims since we agreed, as a Parliament, to bring in microchipping. I tell members that if microchipping actually reduces the number of dangerous attacks by dogs on children by even one attack, then I think it is worth doing. Therefore, I have no hesitation at all in saying United Future will not support the roll-back of that regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ELet me turn to the issue that has been raised by farmers, and by many New Zealanders. They say microchipping will not stop a dog from attacking a child. Of course, it will not, and no one has ever said it will. I was with a group of farmers the other night in Hamilton, and when they pressed me on that point, I said that the impact of microchipping was simply the difference between a collar and a microchip. That is the difference. Those farmers all said to me they conceded that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ELet me read to the House what the state of New South Wales has said. That state has had a microchipping regime for 7 years. The legislation was introduced in 1999\u2014incidentally, it does exempt working farm dogs. The Government of New South Wales said to people about microchipping: \u201CCollars can be lost or removed and tattoos can be changed, but microchipping is a once-only form of identification which is designed to last for an animal\u2019s lifetime. The introduction of compulsory microchipping ensures that all owned animals\u201D\u2014with the exception of working farm dogs\u2014\u201Chave a means of permanent identification which cannot be lost or tampered with.\u201D This matter is simply about adopting today\u2019s technology, which is microchipping, instead of yesterday\u2019s technology, which is collars. Collars can be lost, dislodged, and so forth. They are not as good as microchips when it comes to dog control, and that is why I believe microchipping will reduce the number of attacks on children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ELet me make just a brief comment about the politics of the issue. The Hon David Carter tends to say United Future\u2019s vote is critical to this debate, and if we dare to vote against Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2019 bill, then we are being a poodle to Labour. However, we are opposing Labour in its intention to bring in microchipping for farm dogs. Therefore, Mr Carter\u2019s logic is that if we roll over and adopt National\u2019s position, somehow that does not make us a poodle to National. Well, United Future is a party that is a poodle to no one. We are our own party\u2014we have brains, we can think the facts through, and we can make our own conclusions. We fundamentally disagree with the position advanced in this bill; therefore we will vote against it to ensure that it does not go any further in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u00227c7a3bdeb8154c74b72aabcfd9896110\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c7a3bdeb8154c74b72aabcfd9896110\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think the amendment to the original legislation in respect of the microchipping of dogs is like a case study of poor legislation. I am sure that if the microchipping of dogs amendment proceeds, students in universities will study it as a classic case of where Parliament had a rush of blood to the head and came up with poorly drafted legislation. Carolina Anderson came along, her case tugged on our heartstrings, and, for all the right reasons, we passed the wrong legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe Greens have already explained that we voted for this amendment because it was slipped into a whole suite of amendments, the rest of which we supported. I think it is now time, after a bit of calm reflection in this House, to admit we got it wrong. This has happened before in this House. We are hearing comments today that admit that. We heard from Minister Burton, who said that this legislation will not stop a dog from biting a child. Gordon Copeland said that, too. New Zealand First\u2019s Brian Donnelly said he had reservations about the legislation and if it was not working we should look at it again in a few years. All that members are saying is that we are starting to admit we got it wrong. It would be a terrible, cruel thing for New Zealand First if people had to go to all the expense and hassle of microchipping dogs all around New Zealand, only for this Parliament to then say we got it wrong. That is what we will say at the end of the day\u2014we got it wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWhen we get it wrong in this Parliament, there tends to be a rising tide of opposition to the legislation. That is exactly what we are seeing now\u2014a rising tide of opposition throughout New Zealand. Throughout New Zealand society\u2014including sensible councils\u2014people are telling us the legislation is unenforceable. When a large percentage of society is opposed to a law, it will not work. We have seen it with cannabis legislation and we have seen it with many other laws. When we come up with legislation that is widely opposed and that society thinks is stupid, it will not work. So why are we going to all this trouble and expense? Let us admit we got it wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E Another issue that has not been raised today in the debate was hinted at by Ron Mark. He yelled out a witty quip: \u201CLet\u2019s microchip the National Party members!\u201D. It was said as a joke, but it is absolutely true. We have to acknowledge that this is a surveillance technology\u2014an Orwellian technology. As Tariana Turia said some time ago, it is dogs today, humans tomorrow. Actually, it is not even a case of it being humans tomorrow. In Mexico the Attorney-General has ordered that all of his 160 employees be microwaved\u2014I mean microchipped, although microwaving might be next! He has ordered that his employees be fitted with a microchip that is the size of a grain of rice. Humans are also being microchipped in America. George Orwell warned about this. Let us realise that microchipping is a way of legitimising surveillance; it is Orwellian technology\u2014dogs today, humans tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EBut there is a wider issue we need to address. Whatever happened to the relaxed, trusting, friendly New Zealand society, where we trusted each other and communities got on with each other? What has happened that makes us run around microchipping dogs, even when we know it will not work? Someone already wants cats to be microchipped. Then it will be humans. Whatever happened to our relaxed, trusting New Zealand society that we are fast turning into an authoritarian, Orwellian society? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe Minister has admitted that the Local Government Law Reform Bill will not stop a dog from attacking a child. Therefore it will not work. United Future has a policy of supporting members\u2019 bills going to a select committee, so that they can be debated there. Why will it not allow this issue to be re-debated? If we listen to the views of New Zealanders, we will hear overwhelming opposition to the Government\u2019s stupid legislation. It will not work; people will not microchip their dogs. All we are doing is creating a problem. If the bill is passed, we will look back in a little bit of time and say we got it wrong. Why can we not admit that fact honestly now? We got it wrong. Let us pass the Dog Control (Cancellation of Microchipping Requirements) Amendment Bill today. All it requires is for New Zealand First and United Future, which already admit that the microchipping of dogs will not work, to be honest and say to the people of New Zealand that they are sorry, they got it wrong, and they are big enough and wise enough to admit that and change their minds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u002263ace8082a844e9aab71578ae5cccd7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263ace8082a844e9aab71578ae5cccd7d\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I start by saying that bad cases create bad law. The case of Carolina Anderson galvanised this Parliament, and I acknowledge the members\u2019 comments to that effect. If I thought the proposal in the Local Government Law Reform Bill would, in some way, prevent a further attack, such as the one on Carolina Anderson, I would vote for it. In fact, I would cross the floor of the House to do so\u2014as would most members of Parliament. But the fact is that bill will not prevent further attacks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI congratulate Jeannette Fitzsimons. She chaired the Local Government and Environment Committee, which listened to the submissions and looked at the facts around the issue. Jeanette has come to a very honourable position, based on those facts. In fact, submissions were made to the select committee\u2014although I was not there throughout the whole process\u2014that the legislation might hinder the prevention of dog attacks on children, because it would add a cost of compliance to the registration of dogs, and would therefore be likely to drive more dogs into an unregistered position. Therefore, councils would not have a record of where dangerous dogs were. Of course, if a dangerous dog were to attack a child, such as in the case of Carolina Anderson, once it was apprehended it would be destroyed. So, in my view, the argument that the dog would come back for a second dose, and that therefore it would help in some way if it were microchipped, is a very slim one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI ask Labour members why they do not just look at the facts, instead of being driven by this brainless, mindless, ideological view that somehow that legislation would help. As I said, bad cases make bad law. So I ask Labour to vote down that bill. The National Party supports the member\u2019s bill of Jeanette Fitzsimons with some reservations about the exemptions in it\u2014but we support it none the less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI say to the House tonight that people in rural New Zealand have looked at this issue, and they are not, generally, unreasonable. It is an unusual circumstance when rural New Zealanders rise up and say they will protest to Parliament. That does not happen in the way that some members imply it does. In fact, that group does not come here regularly; its last major protest on Parliament grounds, before the \u201Cflatulence tax\u201D protest, took place in 1984 under the previous Labour Government. That protest was because of the major, major changes Labour was making to the rural sector at that stage. Rural New Zealanders, through their lobby group called Federated Farmers, have estimated that the Local Government Law Reform Bill will cost up to $3 million a year. It will not prevent one single attack and it will potentially result in more dogs\u2014not fewer\u2014being unregistered in New Zealand. The legislation will not achieve a single thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EFurther, the microchipping technology itself was debated in the select committee. One submitter said a microchip could be inserted into a 6-month-old dog, and by the time it is 12 months old the microchip might have disappeared. It would have gone into the body fat of the dog\u2014depending on the breed of dog, of course\u2014and no transponder or reader of that microchip would work any more. I will explain to the House why that may be the case. Each and every member of this House, I imagine, has been to a supermarket\u2014although I suspect that some Ministers with high salaries on the Government side of the House have not. Members will know that, occasionally, the reader at the checkout does not work, so the shop assistants have to go back and check. Exactly the same thing applies with this technology. Therefore, it is not even foolproof. So microchipping is faulty technology, it is expensive, it will not prevent dog attacks, it will raise the cost of compliance substantially\u2014particularly in rural New Zealand\u2014and it will not prevent one attack on one child. If a member on the Government side of the House can take a call and explain to the House tonight the logic in proceeding with that legislation, then we will be all ears. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI tell the honourable Minister Mark Burton, who spoke earlier, that he should get up to speed with the facts around this issue, for goodness\u2019 sake! He should not be dragged along by the very junior Government whip\u2014who clearly has no understanding of this issue\u2014and be whipped into voting for something that, ultimately, as the member for Taupo, he will regret.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u002273de503405eb448f9f3ca583db6302de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273de503405eb448f9f3ca583db6302de\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I have listened very carefully in order to hear whether some evidence would be offered in rebuttal of the points I made in my speech, and I have heard none. The arguments that have been put forward are that microchipping was part of a package of dog control measures and that if we remove it, the package will somehow unravel. But the rest of the package has been in force for 3 years, and it is working quite well without the bit that will come into force on 1 July. Nobody has offered any argument as to why that situation cannot just continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we heard about the children who have been attacked. All of us feel deeply about that, as any human being would. Gordon Copeland said that if the legislation prevented one attack on a child, it would be worth passing. I agree, but nobody in this House tonight has offered one shred of evidence that the legislation would do so. Nobody has come up with a single skerrick of evidence, let alone proof\u2014and I have been listening for it\u2014that microchipping would make children any safer. I would be prepared to change my vote right now if someone could convince me microchipping would work, but nobody has actually even tried to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThen, of course, New Zealand First negotiated that there would be a review. A review is what the Government always offers people to try to get them to support something for a while, because who knows where those people will be in 3 years\u2019 time anyway, when it is time for a review. What do members think a review after 3 years would find, given that the national dog database would be up and running, the money would have been spent, microchippers would be in all the council rooms and vet rooms, and 3 years\u2019 worth of young puppies would have been chipped? It would be very hard to overturn the practice at that stage. If members can vote for a bill tonight without a shred of evidence that it will work, they can just as easily vote, in a review in 3 years\u2019 time, to do nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThis bill is about dogs, and clearly it is about poodles, because I can only conclude that the poodles are in the House tonight\u2014three in one party and seven in another. Those parties are subjecting dog owners to this totally unnecessary fuss because they have promised the Prime Minister. I tell farmers, dog owners, and common-sense members of the public that United Future and New Zealand First have let them down tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EBut it is not the end. The Local Government and Environment Committee still has a Local Government Law Reform Bill before it. Metiria Turei has put up at the select committee an amendment that will do basically the same as this bill, and so, I understand, has David Carter. There will be a majority in that committee for Ms Turei\u2019s amendment. It will come back to the House. There is time for those members who have voted against the bill tonight to reconsider. I challenge them to come up with one shred of evidence that the microchipping of dogs will protect one child in any situation whatsoever, because they have not done so tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224478fdb401bd42b08b56ac7546a9937a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Dog Control (Cancellation of Microchipping Requirements) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2221f7409634bc49b93618d2cafe59c\u0022\u003EEaster Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa8296787ef347d8a131621061669e69\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa75ad5020304ed4a089ebbc9b0ea14a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa75ad5020304ed4a089ebbc9b0ea14a\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Commerce Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EVery shortly after becoming the member of Parliament for Otago, I was approached by a group of W\u0101naka business people who asked whether I could help them. They felt they were in the middle of some kind of ghastly Groundhog Day situation where nothing ever changed. They felt they were in a situation where year after year many of them were prosecuted for trading over Easter, while just over the hill Queenstown had an exemption under the Shop Trading Hours Act Repeal Act 1990, and businesses there could go about their business and trade over Easter quite legally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EW\u0101naka is a busy tourist town with two peak seasons\u2014one in summer and one in winter. It attracts visitors from around New Zealand and, indeed, from right around the world. Easter is an extremely busy time for W\u0101naka, and in particular every second year, when the Warbirds Over W\u0101naka International Air Show and the Race to the Sky events are held. They attract up to 100,000 people to the W\u0101naka district. That influx of people creates a hugh demand for retail services. That demand, which is met by W\u0101naka retailers, would be more happily met if there were not an anomaly in the law that sees them prosecuted for trading, but not Queenstown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EQueenstown, just over the Crown Range, has a general exemption from the restrictions on trading at Easter. I quote the Mayor of Queenstown: \u201CThis reflects our position as an international destination and a place where visitors and residents alike can enjoy many activities and events, which would otherwise be stifled by greater restrictions.\u201D He added: \u201CWe receive no complaints about the flexibility that this offers businesses and the community, and it is exercised responsibly by all of the parties involved.\u201D It is worth noting that the Queenstown Lakes District Council supports the efforts of businesses in W\u0101naka to be granted a similar exemption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI seek to rectify this anomaly in the shop trading hours legislation, not only on behalf of W\u0101naka but also for Tauranga, Rotorua, and other centres with a significant visitor industry. This bill is by no means the first attempt to bring about some change in the Easter shop trading hours legislation, but I hope that now, in 2006, we can put an end to a situation that is outdated, inconsistent, and unfair. New Zealand now has a 24-hour, 7-day-a-week trading environment, providing goods and services in shops, in malls, and on the Internet. Our overseas visitors expect to be able to shop, and it is worth remembering that the tourism industry provides approximately $12 billion of New Zealand\u2019s gross domestic product. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EOur very lifestyles are changing and, as workday pressures grow, people now need, and like, to shop on weekends and holidays. Change, however, is not always easy. I remember back to when Saturday trading first came in\u2014I was just a child, mind! There were fears that it was going to mean the end of family life and the end of Saturday kids\u2019 sports. Well, neither of those things has happened. People merely take advantage of the increased opportunity to shop at their leisure. They go and watch the kids rugby, then go and warm up in the mall on the way home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThere are many other inconsistencies in the legislation as it stands, with some products being allowed to be sold, yet others not. That gives rise to the silly situation where the photography shop in W\u0101naka, which sells photo frames, must close, yet across the road the chemist shop, which also sells photo frames, is allowed to trade over Easter. When the Shop Trading Hours Act Repeal Act was enacted, garages, which then sold only automotive products, were exempt and allowed to trade. Now, 16 years later, a garage can sell books, stationery, magazines, gift cards, and chocolates\u2014all the things that tourists and locals will buy. The trouble is that those are also the things that a bookshop sells, yet bookshops do not have an exemption under the Act to trade over Easter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIn the 16 years since the last amendment to the shop trading hours legislation I believe we have all moved on, and I believe that the time has come to put right the anomalies that currently still exist. The Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill seeks to provide a level playing field for all retailers who may choose to trade over Easter. The bill is all about choice. The bill offers a real choice for retailers. If their district is included on the schedule they can, if they choose, trade on Good Friday and Easter Sunday. Within the bill there is no compulsion to trade. It is a matter for the individual business owner to decide. Retailers will make the decision on whether to open, based on whether they see a demand, on the costs, including costs in staffing, and on whether the day\u2019s business will be profitable to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E The bill does not in any way override the provisions of the Employment Relations Act or the Holidays Act. If an employee does not wish to work on Good Friday and/or Easter Sunday, that employee cannot be required to work unless he or she has agreed in an employment agreement to do so. Far from disadvantaging workers, W\u0101naka retailers tell me that people are lining up to work over Easter, and retailers have absolutely no trouble at all finding staff. It is good for us to remember that a lot of retail workers in tourist towns are young people who are there for the skiing or for the lifestyle, and who are only too happy to make a few extra dollars over Easter. We should also remember that many retail workers work part-time and value the extra hours they may get. So, we have willing sellers, willing workers, and we certainly have willing buyers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to me to read the comments made recently by the spokesman for the Catholic Church in New Zealand that if businesses wanted to open during the weekend, the Catholic Church has no particular issue with it. He added that in Rome itself Sunday is a day on which shops are open. To me it comes back to freedom of choice. If we want to trade, we should be able to trade. If we want to shop, or not, that is our choice, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI named W\u0101naka in the schedule to this bill because it is the people of W\u0101naka whom I represent. Tauranga is also named, as its local MP indicated Tauranga\u2019s interest. I did not presume to add other towns to the schedule, but I know that the Rotorua, Kaik\u014Dura, and Hastings business communities are keen to be added to the schedule, and I am sure there will be others. Should the bill proceed to the Committee stage\u2014and I hope it does\u2014then those areas plus others can be added simply by way of an amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThere are towns in New Zealand that want to trade over Easter; there are other towns that would not thank us for the opportunity. I do not imagine that most retailers in my home town of \u014C\u0101maru would decide it was desirable to open on Good Friday or Easter Sunday, unless there was a large special event in the town that drew thousands of people in, because it simply would not be economically viable. But for those towns in New Zealand with a significant visitor industry, like W\u0101naka, Rotorua, and others, Easter trading provides a boost to the income of the town and a service to the thousands of visitors there for the full range of visitor experiences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI believe the time has come for us to put right the anomalies in the Shop Trading Hours Act Repeal Act, to recognise that tourism is a 365-day-a-year industry, and to recognise that tourism is one of New Zealand\u2019s largest contributors to gross domestic product and goods and services tax. Now is the time to let tourist towns with a significant visitor industry go about their business without unfair, archaic, and unnecessary regulation. I urge members to send this Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u00225bcdec10fa0d4246bf5ff12de9ddcdef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bcdec10fa0d4246bf5ff12de9ddcdef\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I started to listen to the member\u2019s speech part-way through\u2014I apologise to her for getting here a little too late to hear the earlier part\u2014but I think it was along the lines of wanting to take complexity out of the legislation. So let us look at what schedule 2 in her bill actually does. It means that in W\u0101naka, businesses could open on these days provided they were within a radius of 25 kilometres from the postshop situated at 39 Ardmore Street, W\u0101naka. Now, if the National Party ever happened to get back into Government and went back to closing post offices and postshops as it did in the past, then what would happen under this \u201Cless complicated\u201D legislation? Under this bill, in the Tauranga district, if a business were in the area within 30 kilometres from the chief post office\u2014at least Tauranga has a chief post office\u2014it could open on those days. What would happen if the chief post office shifted? Or what would happen if a business were 30 kilometres and 1 metre from the chief post office? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ffc93d6c8f8453fb091768f47a3b8c6\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Read the bill. You\u2019re wasting our time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226877415e5e1747fbb6ec926f7f75f743\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: I am reading the bill. What would happen if one\u2019s business were 30 kilometres and 1 metre away from the post office in Tauranga? If this bill is about clarifying matters and making them simpler, I think other members who follow me may have something to say about that\u2014and those are the ones who agree with the bill! I do not agree with the bill. I have looked through\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d7b2f0462648f29b93f6047737f462\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: For any other reason?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea34e424c28441bb98cf32a7cc344a0f\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I will give members the reasons. I have looked through the many debates that this House has engaged in on these issues since I came here in 1996. I have done a search of Hansard on the computer, and it shows that time after time we have had this kind of debate, and time after time we have ditched such bills. I think this bill will go the same way as the others, even if it gets to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EOne of the things I would like to ask the member is why, if she has the courage of her convictions, this bill does not include Anzac Day. All of the people who have promoted this kind of measure have talked about freedom\u2014the freedom to shop. They say if tourists cannot come to New Zealand and buy a photo frame in W\u0101naka, the world will come to an end. If a tourist comes to New Zealand to buy a photo frame in W\u0101naka, we really have to wonder what sort of tourist he or she is. Tourists do not come here to buy a photo frame in W\u0101naka on Easter Sunday. They come here for much more enjoyable pleasures and a great many other things that attract people to this part of the world. So it is nonsense that our tourism industry will rise or fall on the ability of people to shop on the 3\u00BD days that they cannot shop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWhat this bill actually threatens are the rights of those people who work in or own those businesses and who do not want to work. The member says that those rights have been protected in the bill, but I tell her that her advice that Easter Sunday is a public holiday is incorrect. If she would like to move that amendment to the Holidays Act to make it a public holiday, I would be in favour of it, but I do not think the National Party would like a member\u2019s bill from any of its members to make Easter Sunday a public holiday. It is not a public holiday. She should think about it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI come back to Anzac Day. Why do the people who have such a courageous need to put up members\u2019 bills to allow shopping on Easter Sunday and Good Friday not dare to do that in relation to Anzac Day? Why do they not dare to go into the RSA and tell the old diggers\u2014whom those members like to drink with and get their photo taken with on Anzac Day, and the members say how wonderful they are\u2014why the freedom to shop should be allowed on Anzac Day and Christmas Day? I would like an answer to that. They do not have the political courage to bite that one off. Some members have tried to do so in the past, but the outrage from the RSA made them all withdraw. Yet again those members do not have the courage of their convictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI have the courage of my convictions to say I believe that for 3\u00BD days a year our shops should be closed and our workers should be able to be at home with their families. That is what the law should be. There is nothing wrong with that. I have the courage of my convictions to say I respect the right of people to say a line has to be drawn. When I look at previous speeches I have made on bills of these sorts, I see I stand here as someone who is proud of the family values this country is based on. Those family values were not built on 7-day-a-week, 24-hour-a-day, 365-day-a-year shopping. But the National Party thinks the world will come to an end if we cannot shop and buy a photo frame in W\u0101naka, and the world will come to an end\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220a35c4ff202460ca0eda5c81cd977e6\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Except on Anzac Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb79b023d954f3b91001eb6db19e7ea\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: One cannot buy anything on an Anzac Day morning if one is in the National Party. It is too politically unpopular with the people that National members have to front up to once a year at the RSA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at the other provisions in the bill. I want the member to tell us in her 5-minute reply what protection there is in her bill, if it becomes law, for those who do not want to work on those days. I want her to tell us where that provision is in her very meagre bill. I cannot find it. The bill is so unclear and badly worded that the way I read it, it is a nonsense to say that those people are protected and will have a right not to work. It is similar to the businesses that are forced by mall owners to open, even though they do not want to. I have rehearsed this argument in the House many, many times. Workers in this country should have the right to enjoy time with their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E This Parliament has Standing Orders that prohibit people in this place from working on a Sunday\u2014not just Easter Sunday but every Sunday of the year. Dr Don Brash, who barely ever shows any interest in this House and barely works at all, would not know whether the Standing Orders require him to come to work on a Sunday. He would not have a clue about the Standing Orders that state this Parliament does not have the ability to work on a Sunday. MPs on the Opposition side of the House want to legislate to say to shop workers\u2014some of the lowest-paid workers in this country\u2014that they have to work, but MPs will not work because our rules will not allow it. I have not seen any National member, in the 2 years since this issue was last debated, promote a change to the Standing Orders that would require Parliament to sit on a Sunday. How come it is good enough for shop workers, but not for us? How come Parliament prohibits itself from working on a Sunday, but the poor shop workers who are on the minimum wage in W\u0101naka and Tauranga have to go to work? They have to be at work so that the poor member over there can get a photo frame on Easter Sunday, and put in a photo of herself sitting at home and doing nothing. That is the absolute nonsense of those people. It is as though they are saying other people should work, but they will not. They will get photos of themselves sitting at home with their families, because that is what good family people do\u2014they spend time with their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003ENew Zealand society has changed dramatically. We have liberalised our labour laws and our shop trading hours\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2efdad914e415298981b68de613515\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all gone downhill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251ef0aba941f4337ab1586b16f8d7237\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: Bob Clarkson says it has all gone downhill. The member is absolutely right. We cannot hold family values when we are requiring whole heaps of people who have families to go out to work 24/7 and to be available to work flexibly at any time. In the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, Bob Clarkson has talked about flexible working hours; he is very much in favour of them, but not for himself and his own mates. He will vote for this bill because he wants the shop workers of Tauranga to be made to work on Easter Sunday, while he is lazing around at home. That is the thing that absolutely amazes me about people who promote these sorts of bills. It is all about somebody else having to do the penance, having to go to work, and having to be there to serve in a shop because those members might die if they could not buy something for another 24 hours. That is utter nonsense. If we have a society that absolutely requires shops to be open 24/7, 365 days a year, and if our economy absolutely depends on it, we are in big trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003ESeriously, this issue is about the right of workers to have time with their families. That is why I oppose this legislation, have opposed it in the past, and will continue to oppose it in the future. I have struck a line in the sand and said enough is enough. We have to have some decent working conditions for people who are expected to work 24/7 for all the other days of the year. This is a chance for members to actually put their money where their mouth is, and to vote for real family values that say we respect the right of shop employees to stay at home on Easter Sunday and have a day off, like the rest of us in this place. We always remember those who are serving food, cleaning, and nursing in hospitals. They do not get that day off, but they will tell members they support the right of shop workers to have that time off. Those people know what sacrifices they have made to be away from their families. Hospital and rest home care is absolutely vital and urgent\u2014it is about life and limb. Shopping is not about life or limb.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7cdbb0600234d858476b71b2b36a2df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7cdbb0600234d858476b71b2b36a2df\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E That was a passionate speech. I respect Mark Gosche\u2014he has his view\u2014but he is wrong. This bill should go to a select committee, and the New Zealand First members will support it going to a select committee. We have promoted similar bills, as I recall, on more than one occasion in the past. We supported Steve Chadwick\u2019s bill when she wanted to do much the same thing. But Parliament in its wisdom turned those bills down time and time again\u2014which, New Zealand First believes, is fundamentally wrong. Obviously, we believe that people who work in shops should have some family time, and time at home. But we do not believe that we should impose that on them and say \u201Cthou shalt not work\u201D because we think it is good to have time at home, or that nurses who are working should say shop people must not work. That is not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe think the time has come at least to allow shops to open on Easter Sunday. We have stronger reservations about Good Friday\u2014I want to be honest. We did a survey in Tauranga some time ago, and the public clearly wanted shops to open on Easter Sunday, but they were not as keen to have them open on Good Friday. One of the principal reasons why they wanted shops to open in Tauranga and Mount Maunganui is that the port there is becoming a significant port, especially for cruise liners that often come in on a long weekend. The tourists get off, get into taxis or minibuses, and go for a long bus ride\u2014past Rotorua, because the shops are not open\u2014to Taup\u014D. They spend all their money\u2014their US dollars and what have you\u2014in Taup\u014D. That brasses off Tauranga people. They do not think it is fair that shops are open hundreds of kilometres down the road but shops cannot be opened around the port area. That is not fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff1c00c52abf4d84a19e9ec8c1c43518\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u0027Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Life\u2019s unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ebf6219d8044fd985a9e0e7b0bbee4\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The member says that life is not fair, but our job here is to make it fair or, at least, to make it fairer. I invite the Minister to listen and to say that is unfair, and at least, to be prepared to make it fairer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe view of the New Zealand First members is that each community is different. We would prefer this sort of legislation to be brought in, but to leave it to the local community\u2014the local bodies\u2014to determine whether they would want shops to open. Clearly Tauranga, Mount Maunganui, and Rotorua would, and I accept that W\u0101naka would, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First totally supports sending this bill to a select committee, but we believe there is a bit of tidying up to do\u2014none more so than in the schedule at the back of the bill. We think it does not really make sense to define Tauranga district as being \u201Cwithin 30 kilometres from the Chief Post office Tauranga.\u201D The chief postshop in Tauranga has shifted at least once and at least more than 1 kilometre. Does that mean that shops that were within the 30 kilometre area before the postshop shifted are now out of it? That is a little bit \u201CMonty Python-ish\u201D. We believe it would be much more practical to define the area in the way we define a voting area. It is much more sensible. People understand that definition, and they know that areas are changed only by sensible, rational thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe are hugely disappointed that this type of bill has not got through in the past. We hope that this bill will get to a select committee, be modified, and come back, and that shops will have the ability\u2014if they so desire\u2014to open on Easter Sunday. As I say, we regard Good Friday as being in the same vein as Christmas Day, and we would not support shops opening on Christmas Day. New Zealand First tends to regard Good Friday as a day of special reverence, but we think Easter Sunday makes for a long weekend. It is a holiday weekend for many New Zealanders\u2014not all of them, by any means\u2014and it is a holiday weekend for people who come here on cruise ships, or even in aircraft, to experience New Zealand. We think it is wrong to close up shops simply because we believe there is some concern for the workers in shops. It is quite easy to roster shopkeepers staffing shops, just as it is to roster any other activity. Many shops in New Zealand are operated by owner-operators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u002284d305923337470d91481087c5b6b6f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284d305923337470d91481087c5b6b6f4\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I would like to make it clear that the Green Party caucus is taking a unified position on the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill, and will be voting against it tonight. I know I have spoken when similar bills have come before the House in the past, and I reiterate those comments. We have in front of us a bill that adds yet another layer of exceptions to the original Act, which is itself full of inconsistencies. To expand that ramshackle patchwork by adding two new districts only begs the question about the rest, and the bill fails to address the underlying questions about workers\u2019 rights, the role of public holidays in family life, and the nature of sacred days in a country of mixed-faith heritages. The Green Party believes that if we are to overhaul the legislation around shop trading hours, we should do so comprehensively and fairly, taking all points of view and all parts of the country into consideration, and not go on attempting to change it at one or two localities at a time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI turn now to the other reasons we oppose the bill. First of all, we see big problems for workers, in that employees are protected only in so far as they are able to negotiate protection into their employment agreements. The reality is that few would be able to do that and independently negotiate exemptions. This bill does not recognise the unequal bargaining power employers have when negotiating working conditions with their staff, who tend to be among the lowest-paid and least unionised people in the workforce. We strongly believe that no worker should have to work on Good Friday or Easter Sunday against his or her will. This bill does not provide any, or adequate, protection to stop that from happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill makes assumptions about the place of family life in a culture that seems to value paid work and conspicuous consumption above most other things. Easter, Christmas, and the morning of Anzac Day remain the last days uninterrupted for most by the compulsion to work. They are a time when family life can be nurtured and when people can get together without the intrusion of work commitments. There is a lot of fine talk in this debating chamber about the importance of the family in holding together the very fabric of our society. If we are serious about protecting and nurturing families, then we should all stand up against the powerful forces of commerce, which quietly undermine the last few sanctuaries of family time. I look to United Future\u2019s MPs particularly, when I say that. Given all their beliefs about the family, and in some cases about Christianity, I hope they will join with us in opposing the bill. Indeed, I am glad to hear that two of their members will be opposing it tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EAfter all, Easter, Christmas, and the morning of Anzac Day stand as the last significant symbols of resistance to a culture of unbridled consumption. We live as de facto consumers in nearly every aspect of our lives. We consume entertainment, education, health care, sport, politics, and even religion. All of that pulls apart the spiritual fabric that binds us together as people, both individually and collectively. In the words of American theologian Stanley Hauerwas, the problem is not that we have become consumers but that we can conceive of no other alternative ways of living, since we lack any practices that could make such alternatives possible. That is a crisis of the imagination, and it possibly underpins the reasons why the death on the Cross of one of history\u2019s greatest figures deserves no more reverence than a suburban shopping mall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHave we in this House lost any sense of the sacred? Easter is the most significant set of holy days in the Christian calendar. If the special and unique nature of the Easter period is no longer respected by society at large, some may say we should not even celebrate the day as a statutory public holiday. But the reality is that more than half the population continues to affiliate with the Christian religion. The law should protect the sanctity and special character of those 2 days, by allowing people to attend to their spiritual lives and attend worship without the imposition of work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ESo, whether or not we are Christians and whether or not we have families, we six Green MPs join together in voting against this bill and in support of a future that respects the importance of family life, of traditional faith commitments, of workers\u2019 rights, and of doing all we can to resist consumerism as the new, but oh so hollow, religion of our time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5b7149954274c26806294ea3afc6393\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5b7149954274c26806294ea3afc6393\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E In September 1959 Te Ao Hou magazine included the following report of the Roman Catholic Hui Aranga that was held at R\u0101nana, along the Whanganui River: \u201CThe weather was dreadful and the road almost inaccessible, yet there was an attendance of 900 and the programme, religious and social, was full and satisfying. Teams from Christchurch, Wellington, Otaki, Levin, Feilding, Hawera, Hastings, Kaiwhaiki and Ranana competed in action songs, Maori oratory, choir events, religious quiz, haka, poi, Rugby, tennis, table tennis and basketball.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EEvery Easter, all over the country, that same kind of report appears in different newspapers as M\u0101ori return in their thousands to their home marae for a whole host of wh\u0101nau activities. Anglican, Catholic, R\u0101tana, and the rest, flock to their homelands to worship, enjoy one another\u2019s company, catch up on the goss, participate in sports, feast, and be with one another. M\u0101ori people plan their big occasions around Easter, because they know it is a 4-day weekend. Those occasions include weddings, reunions, unveilings, and cultural festivals\u2014you name it and M\u0101ori are doing it at Easter time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe mokopuna are different, of course. They will play anything, perform anywhere, and go hard till they drop\u2014as long as they get the hot cross buns and chocolate Easter eggs. They are a lot easier to please, but I know they enjoy having their cousins around, bludging off their uncles and aunties, and greasing around their grandparents for little goodies, as well. But for all that to go off successfully, M\u0101ori have to plan for months. Then they can enjoy some good-quality time with one another and still have time for the slow cruise home on Easter Monday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThen, like Darth Vader swooping into shot, dominating the screen and bumming out the good guys, along comes the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill. Instead of cracking jokes, unwinding, and sharing time together, wh\u0101nau will be faced with subtle and obvious pressures to work. They will get comments from their bosses, like: \u201CSorry, Mita, we\u2019re opening tomorrow and you\u2019re going to have to come in.\u201D, or \u201CHey, Parekura, didn\u2019t you go to that hui last year? We need you at work tomorrow.\u201D, or \u201CLook, Nanaia, we all have places we\u2019d like to go to, but being committed to your career means you have to make sacrifices.\u201D, or the big one: \u201CNo, Mahara, you don\u2019t have to come in tomorrow. Your job\u2019s safe.\u201D Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWh\u0101nau are at the core of everything the M\u0101ori Party stands for, and that philosophy guides our thinking on this bill. Although the bill is focused on two particular towns, W\u0101naka and Tauranga, we know that others will follow. Indeed, MP Steve Chadwick wants to put Rotorua into the loop, and it will not be long before the ripples are felt right throughout the land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe contribution the bill will make to our GDP is well recognised, but the M\u0101ori Party would argue factors other than just tourist dollars need to be considered as part of this nation\u2019s genuine progress indicator. What will be the effect of the increasing pressure on wh\u0101nau to work, when our workforce is already characterised by increasingly longer work days, and less time to take the kids to sport, look after the wh\u0101nau, and just have time to think? Certainly, revenue will be increased, but will society be enhanced by this bill? Will the rights of those who are expected to work on those days be properly protected? Increased GDP is important, but no more so than those other factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ELast week the household labour force survey came out. It highlighted some very sobering statistics, one of which showed that M\u0101ori are earning, on average, $4 an hour less than non-M\u0101ori. Instead of increasing the workload, perhaps we should be looking to increase the pay rate. Working more hours for a pittance, just to get by, does not enhance society; it only embitters those whom we treat so badly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis House has the capacity to determine the times when we as a nation can honour wh\u0101nau, and when we can preserve and respect the responsibilities and importance of family\u2014rather than continually eroding the precious scraps of time we have left. When Sitiveni Rabuka took over Fiji, he shut down Sundays in order to improve the spiritual balance of his people. When I came to Parliament my wife told everyone I would be having Sundays off, for the same reason\u2014so we could relax, enjoy the wh\u0101nau, and recharge the batteries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will not stand in the way of the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill going to the select committee, but we raise again the need for this House to give due consideration to the importance of family as the heart of the nation, and to protecting the little time we have to be with one another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u00220c160e31e3324142b8e17b9ffab2b327\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c160e31e3324142b8e17b9ffab2b327\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to say, as I talk to the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill, that United Future has decided to treat this issue as a conscience vote. So my comments today are just that\u2014they are my comments, my position\u2014and I will be opposing this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI want to make it really clear from the beginning that although I am a Christian and Easter is an important festival for my faith, that is not my reason for opposing this bill. My concern is that we have whittled away at public holidays\u2014from when I was a child, when I do not think we had any trading on Sunday, at all\u2014until they are down to 3\u00BD measly days a year. I think if members had asked me a few years ago about this, I would probably have been less concerned about that, because during those days I had my three children at home, and we had lots of time together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E But as our children grow up and become teenagers\u2014even before they leave home\u2014and they start to get weekend jobs and holiday jobs, most of which are in retail facilities, suddenly our chances of spending time together start to disappear. Once children leave home it gets harder and harder to spend time with them. As my family has grown older, I have come to appreciate the 3\u00BD days of commerce-free public holidays that we have left, and I feel a sense of needing to protect them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ESomeone who has really influenced my thinking on this is Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, who is the Chief Rabbi in England. In his book The Politics of Hope he devotes a whole chapter to what he calls \u201Cpublic places\u201D. He uses the example of public parks. The point he makes is that public parks make no economic sense at all. We leave a whole lot of space unbuilt on and not capitalised in any way, but that is not the reason we have them. We have parks because they do us good. That is how I feel about public holidays. They do not make economic sense but they do us good, and we are in grave danger, as we pass these kinds of amendment bills, of losing them and losing sight of what they are all about. Let me read a portion from his book:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E \u201CEvery age has its characteristic preoccupations. For the past century and a half, one of the leading concerns of thinkers in the West has been to preserve for individuals the space to be themselves without interference from others. When that case was first made, in 1859 by John Stuart Mill, it had a mild and limited objective. Mill felt himself surrounded by the suffocating proprieties of Victorian England and felt that human creativity\u2014what he called \u2018experiments in living\u2019\u2014needed more room in which to develop. A century later, when Isaiah Berlin and Karl Popper came to formulate their views, the subject had become more grave. The enemy was now no longer Victorian busybodies peering into other people\u2019s windows, but the totalitarian state and its crushing sacrifice of liberty and lives. As the twentieth century drew to its close, however, it would be fairer to say that we stand in the opposite situation. In today\u2019s liberal democracies, it is not that we are too much together but that we are too much alone and seek to learn again how to connect with others in lasting and rewarding ways.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EIt is in this context that some of us in this House see value in protecting the remaining 3\u00BD days of commerce-free public holidays, so that getting together with friends and family is at least, on 3\u00BD days, given a higher priority than commerce. The argument is that business folk have a right to conduct their activities when they please. Some of us, however, think that if we in this House are truly serious and sincere when we wax eloquent about crime rates, family breakdown, antisocial behaviour, and the absence of consistent values, as we all do at times, then we will all need to acknowledge that nothing will be resolved if we all act alone as individuals. Sometimes, just occasionally, we need to agree to put down our own agenda for the common good. It is the reason that we have conservation estates and marine reserves. It is why we have road rules. They are designed for our collective good; so are our remaining few public holidays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe interesting fact about this proposal is that it pretends to be about creating exemptions for towns that have strong visitor and tourist components to their activities. However, it is very unclear which towns this does not apply to. As New Zealand promotes itself more and more as a tourist industry\u2014and the town I live in is desperate to attract tourism dollars\u2014it is very easy to see that this will be just a very blanket provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u002264d994ba8d714990b6527866c5ef2626\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264d994ba8d714990b6527866c5ef2626\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to stand in support of this first reading of the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill, to allow trading in the W\u0101naka and Tauranga districts on Easter Sunday and Good Friday. The current laws are a dog\u2019s breakfast. Under the existing laws, certain shops are exempted from having to stay closed at Easter and Christmas. If they serve food or petrol they can stay open, and if they sell souvenirs they can stay open. A pharmacy or a shop in a bus station can stay open, and a garden centre can open on Easter Sunday but not otherwise. Furthermore, if a shop chooses to open on any of those days, it commits an offence and has to pay a fine of $1,000. So shops do choose to stay open, knowing that the trading figures more than justify the cost of the fine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EAs the chief executive of the Auckland chamber of commerce has stated: \u201CThere is no better example of stupid lawmaking and collective political failure to fix bad law than the annual Easter Shopping conundrum.\u201D He continued: \u201CIt is stupid to have a law on when shops can open or not open. It is even more stupid to have a law that says some shops can open and others can\u2019t\u2014let the market decide.\u201D We have a wonderful tourism industry in New Zealand, yet Queenstown can stay open on Easter Sunday and Good Friday, but W\u0101naka cannot. Taup\u014D is exempt; Rotorua is not. Whilst the bill refers to W\u0101naka and Tauranga, it also allows other towns to choose to tag along and join the schedule of exempted areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis bill is about choice\u2014the freedom to choose, if one runs a business in W\u0101naka, to stay open, and the freedom to choose to remain closed. If we have personal, religious, or cultural reasons to keep Easter Day and Good Friday free from commercial activity, and free from running our shops or businesses, then we can so choose. If we choose not to shop, and to have a family day away from shops, then we do not have to shop. Nobody is forcing us to shop. Nothing in this bill is compulsory; nothing in this bill is mandatory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EIt has been stated by the Family First Lobby that: \u201CPublic holidays are traditions. They create rituals for families, not based on shopping but on celebrating together, reconnecting, and making memories.\u201D I do not disagree with that statement but, as the Listener reported, on Christmas Day that may well be true but at Easter it is not. Family unity is not put at risk if the local supermarket opens on a public holiday. Because of the ridiculous current law, 45,000 visitors to Auckland last month attended the Rolling Stones concert, yet they could not go shopping. They could go to the concert, but they could not buy a new outfit to wear to the concert.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EIf one objects to working on Easter Sunday or Good Friday, so be it. But the irony is that because the current law is ludicrous, many shop owners now flout the law. What does that mean? It means that labour inspectors are busy working on that \u201Cday of rest\u201D, catching all those who choose to remain open. That is the irony of it. Wholesalers can remain open; retailers cannot. Goods can be purchased on the Internet, but not from physical shop premises. One can get a haircut on Good Friday, but not buy shampoo. One can rent a video or a DVD from a video shop on Good Friday, but not buy one. Newspapers are not sold on Good Friday, but the newspaper staff are working on the Saturday edition. Shops in Taup\u014D can open; shops in Rotorua cannot. Shops in Queenstown can open; shops in W\u0101naka cannot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EUnder this bill, towns can choose to avail themselves of that exemption. Alternatively, they can choose not to. Similarly, shop owners can always choose to open. Alternatively, they can choose not to open. Workers can choose to work on those days, or they can refuse to work. But then, who would not want to work, with the current Holidays Act regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis issue has been languishing. It is time it was resolved, once and for all. It is not a sin to buy goods on Easter Day or Good Friday; neither is it a sin to sell goods on those days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00223bbfb8d2e6e74fa6be8dd47d9bed3bcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bbfb8d2e6e74fa6be8dd47d9bed3bcc\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I have to say that members\u2019 day brings out the diverse views in this House. I feel slightly uncomfortable here tonight, with my colleagues on either side of me\u2014but lucky Jacqui Dean. Her bill was pulled from the ballot; mine has lingered in the ballot since the day after the election. We thought we would be the first cab off the rank because we would get the bill in the ballot, there would be no others, our bill would be pulled out, and away we would go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E The Rotorua bill that I sponsor, though, I have to say, is a much more robust bill than the approach in this bill. It is more inclusive, I say to Jacqui. We are attempting to address the ridiculous geographic anomalies that exist in the schedule of exemptions. This schedule of exemptions, I think, was a pure issue of oversight in 1990. I am not blaming the members at the time; I do not know whether the legislation was rushed through. We were not here then, but Rotorua was simply omitted and left off the list. We have suffered for that ever since, and I must tell my colleagues here that we have suffered. The absurdity for us is that people can go right through our town and shop in Taup\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EOf course, Taup\u014D voted against my last attempt to get shop trading legislation in the House, because it had an economic advantage enshrined in the law in 1990, and we have been unable to unseat that ridiculous anomaly ever since. But in the approach that we took in my bill we were actually less parochial. We realised last time, in the bill that I sponsored as a Rotorua local bill, that people saw it was just a Rotorua issue that I was trying to resolve, and every other area in New Zealand was not remotely interested, and so we lost that bill in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis time, working alongside the district council, the chamber of commerce, Retail Rotorua, and the economic development unit, we proposed a bill that uses the long-term community plan for territorial local authorities as the mechanism to go out and consult their communities. If they agree to Easter Sunday trading only then can that be addressed. So any territorial local authority across the country could do that rather than picking winners. That anomaly drives the country to absolute distraction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis bill is imperfect. It will allow only W\u0101naka and Tauranga to trade, and it also includes Good Friday. I know we have subsequently had advice from the Clerk of the House that other districts can add an amendment. Members can be sure I will be ready with Rotorua. But also, I think, adding Good Friday into the legislation does weaken its chances. We actually did survey the whole country with the help of the retail sector and the chambers of commerce and there was no mood across the country when it last came to the House\u2014and times change\u2014for Good Friday. That is the argument I am hearing in the House tonight\u2014do not erode it away too much. So we understood that Easter Sunday was about the only day that people would accept for change if there was any mood, and that is all that I proposed in my bill. I hope that does not weaken the support for this bill tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI will support this bill to select committee. Why will I? I am the MP for a tourism icon city and electorate, and we have been driven absolutely crazy ever since 1990. We supported Rodney Hide\u2019s bill in the last term of Government, and I had no problem with that. As we say, one finds some strange bedfellows in an MMP environment and I found Rodney\u2019s bill eminently sensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI would also like to point out that there is no protection for workers in this bill. In my bill that is languishing in the ballot\u2014and it will probably stay there\u2014we have the protections for workers that were proposed by the Green Party when they got the amendment into the last Easter Shop Trading Amendment Act that covered garden centres. We were pleased that the Greens got that amendment in for worker protection. That is not in this bill and that does concern me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI will be launching a petition in the Bay of Plenty this Saturday. The petition will urge Parliament to consider legislation to fix the anomalous schedule of exemptions. The petition has the support of the economic development unit, Retail Rotorua, the chamber of commerce, and the district council. It was also resolved at every zone meeting of Local Government New Zealand, right through the country, that it too would support this bill. Good luck. I hope we get there. I never want to debate this again in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00226d34b3470abc415f81e8d165cd0d19d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d34b3470abc415f81e8d165cd0d19d4\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E I thank Steve Chadwick, who is on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3b75d5739df4181bced4bf8380f186e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Steady!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220609b94afa61416d8fa708054d64f87d\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not worry; it will not get too fulsome. Steve and I both have the same goal in mind; we just have a different way of getting there. We both want the Easter trading issue to be settled once and for all\u2014I think we agree on that. But although Steve\u2019s approach gets us bogged down in the local government process of endless expensive consultation, my approach is elegantly simple. My approach is that should the bill get to the Committee stage, which I really hope it does, then other towns with a significant visitor industry can be added by way of a Supplementary Order Paper or an amendment. That was always my intention with this bill. I named W\u0101naka because the people of W\u0101naka came to me wanting me to help them fix, once and for all, the ongoing Groundhog Day - like problem of Easter trading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of interest from all around New Zealand in this Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill. I have had messages, phone calls, and inquiries from many people. I have had inquiries from Napier, Hastings, and Central Hawke\u2019s Bay, and I have had indications from Northland that it would like to be part of this bill. I have had messages from the Bay of Plenty, Dunedin, Wanganui, Gisborne, Nelson, Greymouth, Blenheim, Invercargill, and, of course, many from W\u0101naka. I remind those members of the House that this level of interest tells me that it is not just me and other MPs who want changes to this legislation; it is the retailers from around New Zealand. Business groups from around the country are looking to us to provide leadership on this issue, effect change to this archaic legislation, and, in the first instance, send this bill through to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI refer to a piece of paper that plopped onto my desk one day, and being a new MP this tends to happen often\u2014one gets landed with bits of paper that one does not quite know what they mean until one reads them. This one was quite interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222138f02a1d74229a6653febf4ec2669\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We often call them leaks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f823056b99b413aa3006663fc0ea900\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you. This report from the Ministry of Justice provided some advice on whether the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill is consistent with the rights and freedoms set out in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. I was really interested to read section 47 of the Holidays Act 2003, as advised. It states: \u201CAn employer may require an employee to work on a public holiday if\u2014(a) the public holiday falls on a day on which, but for it being a public holiday, would otherwise be a working day for the employee; and (b) the employee is required to work on the public holiday under the employee\u2019s employment agreement.\u201D The Ministry of Justice report goes on to state that if employees do not wish to work on Good Friday and/or Easter Sunday, they cannot be required to work unless they have agreed to in their employment agreement. So I was very interested to read that from the Ministry of Justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI think the definition of W\u0101naka in the schedule works extremely well for W\u0101naka. There is a post shop in the middle of W\u0101naka, and in consultation with the W\u0101naka Chamber of Commerce we worked out that a radius of, I think, 20 or 25 kilometres from the post shop brought in all those retail areas that wanted to be brought in and included in this bill. So too with Tauranga. In consultation with local business leaders in Tauranga, they agreed that that was the area they wanted described in the schedule. I do not care how visitor districts are described in the schedule. It does not matter. What matters is that those areas that want to be included in the schedule are described in the way they would like to be described. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI take issue with the idea that family life is threatened by a few shops being open over Easter. Family life may be threatened by many, many things, but I have never seen family life threatened by mum, dad, and a couple of kids going to the shops for a coffee and a spot of shopping over Easter. I think there is a tendency to get a little bit too serious about this issue. I think it is very important for all of us to remember that they are only shops. They are nothing threatening or awful; they are only shops. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak to this bill, and I hope that, once and for all, we can set this matter to rest. I would like to see this bill go to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d87e27a1f93c47689fe56d30fa57e64f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the Easter Sunday Shop Trading Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 73\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECullen  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing C\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwain  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n       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\u003Ctd\u003EGoff  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliamson  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrash  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoodhew \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPower \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWong  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoudie  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERich  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoolerton  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoy H\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWorth  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHartley  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERyall \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EChadwick \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHawkins \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESamuels  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EChoudhary  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESharples \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimich \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClarkson \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHide \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith L\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EColeman  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHutchison \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKey  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStewart \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EConnell  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing A (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESutton  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoy E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 41\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarker \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFitzsimons  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMackey \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETurei  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarnett  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGallagher \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMaharey  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETurner \u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBradford  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGosche \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilson  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBurton  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHeatley  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYates\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHereora  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMoroney \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECopeland \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHobbs  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u0027Connor \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECosgrove \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHodgson  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPettis  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECunliffe  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHoromia  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPillay \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDuynhoven \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERirinui  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKedgley  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFenton \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELaban  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStreet  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EField  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELocke \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETanczos \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes \u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter J (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGroser  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley  (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000694\u0022\u003EBill read a first time, and referred to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000695\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.54 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060517a8f86860c7af4bbe99feb13dd7633135000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"