"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d798988a97745f798b5e06366bb4f8f\u0022\u003EThursday, 25 May 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022736d5d2e2c2c4d72911d375f93690146\u0022\u003EThursday, 25 May 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ea277746cd94b6084b6ad5fcbe0cd54\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5e03c193d9643dcbc3913f95a8be032\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00222be9bce083f94b49a8c41a16e29ebd62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222be9bce083f94b49a8c41a16e29ebd62\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week the House will go into a 2-week adjournment. When the House resumes on Tuesday, 13 June, priority will be given to the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill, the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill, the Historic Places Amendment Bill, the Protected Objects Amendment Bill, and the Coroners Bill. The first Wednesday, of course, will be a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002258f92b6dcdc245bea01c5115155ab4b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258f92b6dcdc245bea01c5115155ab4b0\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for that indication of the House\u2019s future business. I wonder whether he might tell us whether the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill, which is currently sitting below the line on the Order Paper but is available to the Government when the House resumes, will be debated by the full House some time in the next sitting, or will it become like the Conservation (Protection of Trout as a Non-commercial Species) Amendment Bill, which has been on the Order Paper for many years now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d187078548ec41c2956d0994a7e58388\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d187078548ec41c2956d0994a7e58388\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E That bill bears no relationship to the protection of trout! I am sure that when we do debate that bill it will be debated by the full House. We will determine when that will be at some point in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022879be86c98d9456a9ff48833d47edc67\u0022\u003ECommittees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002236c9add3783f43de9f331dc54306e0b1\u0022\u003EBusiness of Select Committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022514ec92506e94828ae7513494e46d120\u0022\u003EMeetings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002279dd53f36c914ca28dff08b34ed73133\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279dd53f36c914ca28dff08b34ed73133\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Following on from the Business Committee meeting this week, I seek leave for the Local Government and Environment Committee to have the authority to meet in Australia from 19 to 23 June 2006, and to adopt such procedures and practices as are suitable for the conduct of its business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243308db095c14edabfc2e96c06d20fb9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b02e3e6c5d5467abd20a8abe1680381\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a0df030b3514277871a60f83a5439b5\u0022\u003EMinistry for the Environment Book Release\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u00220f2758acf49e439bbc6621a2fda5420d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f2758acf49e439bbc6621a2fda5420d\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I understand that the Ministry for the Environment released a book last night, Gentle Footprints Boots \u2018n\u2019 All. I realise that the current Minister has no responsibility for that document, given that it was initiated before his time, or for it being poorly compared with the report The State of New Zealand\u2019s Environment 1997. I seek leave to table Gentle Footprints Boots \u2018n\u2019 All, so that this House has the opportunity to have a good look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b88a4fc5b08642b6a01276a95c664340\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. Would members please be quiet when these questions are put. It is very hard to tell whether members are just chattering amongst themselves or making a serious comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6e433debdac4c80af0d3b628d0f4d6a\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c496043e72d84aaf93934c88bcd16cc6\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228486f01ca71414985bc77d29841a2ec\u0022\u003EVenture Capital Market\u2014Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235560a621e04480485f17d9bcec185de\u0022\u003E1. Hon MARIAN HOBBS (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: What steps is the Government taking to promote investment in the venture capital market in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002287a07961b70a4e6696736a43bac9bd06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287a07961b70a4e6696736a43bac9bd06\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Budget 2006 delivered an additional $60 million boost to the Venture Investment Fund that, with private sector leveraging, will deliver $180 million to young firms with high growth potential. Through the fund we hope to speed up the commercialisation of new research and innovation, and turn them into successful business opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223505f79cb2a64bcf9c9da8953a4e4d8f\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any evidence that alternative views on foreign investment in Australia have been considered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8c4859a41448aa80a41a0a5abfd242\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I happen to have a copy of a document on foreign investment in Australian industry. It is essentially an exercise in how to sell one\u2019s country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022536d3da6c6c4401a9fe6f0cd45455309\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that as part of the confidence and supply agreement between the Government and New Zealand First, 2007 has been nominated as Export Year, and that this venture capital funding is part of the preparation for 2007?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb50bde9021461287d75e727306452b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CYes.\u201D to the first part, and \u201CI am sure it will help.\u201D as far as the second part is concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a20c75d04e9a446f90113b3538320468\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Has the report he referred to in his answer to my second supplementary question been used extensively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de0ee08cb7244bd9a4a9d58923b2ffa\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think the short answer is no. A copy of the book has been borrowed from the Parliamentary Library three times since 1969, when it first went there. In fact, the most recent borrower was the late Rt Hon Sir Robert Muldoon, who borrowed it in 1986. I think it is fair to say that this book on selling out one\u2019s country has not been a universal success. The author, of course, is Donald Brash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2c10872ebae4c4aad3ddb296add5311\u0022\u003ECommunications, Minister\u2014Vodafone\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298f10387ef084c299aba16b1612a60c6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Communications: Did he or his office ask Vodafone to send him a letter of apology dated Tuesday 23 May; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c63aee84dfcd43ae8b63884fec79f18b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c63aee84dfcd43ae8b63884fec79f18b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Communications: The Minister is advised that following the raising of the issue in the House, his office sought from officials a copy of the letter he was advised that Vodafone was drafting in November. On discovering a letter had not been sent, Crown Law contacted Vodafone\u2019s counsel. Vodafone finalised a letter, originally drafted in November, and sent it to officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc140ee8d3a24fa4bdda2c96c33327e7\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm he is currently in the process of considering recommendations from the Telecommunications Commissioner and a commercial case from Vodafone regarding the regulation of mobile termination rates, and that millions of dollars of revenue are at stake for Vodafone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f903b2474ac4185ad387a258ef8975b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It was made clear to Vodafone by Crown Law in November that that action was completely unrelated to any other matters that may come before the Minister, including the mobile termination rate decision. Ministers on this side of the House, unlike those who were in the National Government, do act in a professional manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220097b9d0ab64453ebbcfaa6371ba5f76\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain to the House why he is trading political favours with a large multinational company, given that he is responsible for regulating it, and is he surprised that Vodafone came up with a grovelling letter, when he is about to make a decision that could cost it millions of dollars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab26d25105bb47d68964d6ab0f09e08f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is not trading favours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5fde58914134480894e4df3fc124a0e\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be seen in any other light than that, when the Minister effectively requested from Vodafone a letter of apology regarding a court case he was involved in the day he had been attacked over it in Parliament, and when at the same time he is considering the regulation of mobile termination rates, which could cost Vodafone tens of millions of dollars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30423f0ad43471bbf9fc2a2df6aab18\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Relatively easily. The Minister had understood that a letter had come. He asked for it when it was clear that the letter, which he was told had been drafted in November, had not arrived. Crown counsel asked for a copy of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ebd80a1c96f443c8c660d6686942187\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that he has just given the House the completely misleading impression that he asked for a letter dated November, when in fact the letter was dated 23 May\u2014the day after submissions closed on his decision about mobile termination rates, which could cost Vodafone tens of millions of dollars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b49146e424b94127a12a9092bd349285\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that that letter was drafted on or before 16 November 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277416f6978594367a75c5b7e277d6b3f\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that he now has no choice but to reject Vodafone\u2019s commercial case and accept the tougher recommendations of the Telecommunications Commissioner, because if he does not it will look as though he is returning a political favour done for him by Vodafone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022209ce4688b9440dbbc68d8ce6a302da9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Minister understands how to make a decision professionally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee2fef53c17e42f78fe59e9482356a07\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What sort of banana republic is the Labour Government now running, when a Minister responsible for a multimillion-dollar regulatory decision has coerced Vodafone into doing him a political favour, Vodafone has done it, and he has to make a decision within the next few weeks; what sort of banana republic is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54f3f378950413abfbf2e2c1fcc73a1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is clear that times have changed since National members made statutory decisions. Members opposite know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022794bb59dbf634d08b8119b0d53aef0e3\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Trading favours!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299e19ac375374f28a2311645f536089e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Members opposite may trade with the Exclusive Brethren, with Telecom, and with others; this Government does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224654a37c972543b098ac305c80bcc3a0\u0022\u003ETransport Strategy\u2014Roading Infrastructure Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247c10f29640c417db69a8e92b74e7564\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What analysis was undertaken and by whom, in terms of the New Zealand Transport Strategy, before he announced that an extra $1.5 billion would be allocated largely to roading infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2e08af58aa74037819129524c9f85f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2e08af58aa74037819129524c9f85f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Relevant agencies contributed to the Government\u2019s analysis, which underlined significant funding shortfalls, important congestion and safety issues, and considerable uncertainty about the forward path without firm and rapid action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228560fc3051d947a99e745ebe20306339\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government sought any advice from Crown Law on whether announcing a list of projects to be funded with the new money is legal, given that they are not part of any land transport programme and given Land Transport New Zealand\u2019s statutory independence in this respect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b26f22e27e4d869bb63f43a540f38b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government consulted with Land Transport New Zealand and Transit about the list of indicative projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a71aa572961f4775becf1c63c6e3a848\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Did some of the analysis done to justify that expenditure increase in roading include a look at the Allen Consulting Group report from 2004, which showed that if $2.4 billion was spent on just four major roading projects, the benefit to the country in economic, social, and environmental terms would be about $4.50 for every dollar spent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f809241b1dba4302a55a5029ff8782a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That report was not looked at in the specific context of the Budget decisions, but clearly Ministers were aware of that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282c65533379b4de0b723e8e2dec1f492\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister again who provided what analysis that this list of roading projects was better at meeting the requirements of the Land Transport Management Act\u2014namely, assisting economic development, assisting safety and personal security, improving access and mobility, protecting and promoting public health, and ensuring environmental sustainability\u2014and that this was better than spending a greater proportion of the money on public transport; was it his finance officials, was it transport officials, or was it Land Transport New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b49ad5fac262411aac570c2d2cd5ca35\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Spending on public transport has been significantly increased under this Government. Many hundreds of millions of dollars are, in fact, being spent on public transport. On the point the member originally asked about, I reply that the relevant statutory authorities provided the list of indicative projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e64622f8c5fb46ff976fb23419b91fae\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister share my view that the best advice Jeanette Fitzsimons and the Greens could be given is that they should read the Allen report, where they might get some idea, at least, of the economic importance of roads to this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022072496347a2248b2b034f9c8df7bcf96\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I would not regard the Allen report as the last word on this matter. The Government does believe in an appropriate mix of transport funding via the means of new roads, maintenance of roads, and public transport. I emphasise again that quite a lot of the roading work is for safety issues\u2014it is about saving people\u2019s lives and saving people from serious injury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cfd4133b3940ceba7eb60abb75c8f9\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government set up the Auckland Regional Transport Authority to decide which projects best meet Aucklanders\u2019 needs, and then refuse to fund the public transport priorities that that body determines and, instead, override Aucklanders\u2019 wishes and impose lower-priority roading projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247ed4f9c572b4ee582343c1892fd6a35\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I see an increasing number of press statements coming out of the Auckland Regional Council from its members, specifically the chair, disassociating themselves on behalf of Aucklanders in that particular regard. But this Government has never set up any agency to decide a wish list from which we would pay for whatever that agency wanted. If that is the basis on which the Greens would be funding any transport proposals then, of course, they would have to build a lot more roads than we are proposing to build within this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e317cc2c2f4336a2dba0af80d1b205\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: How will spending an extra $1.5 billion on roads mean that the National Land Transport Programme\u2014and I quote from the Act\u2014\u201Censures environmental sustainability\u201D; and what analysis did he receive about how the biggest roading programme in New Zealand\u2019s history will affect carbon dioxide emissions, air quality, water runoff, and noise pollution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a35023a91c3e4597b8f39057514bca08\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: A number of those factors, of course, are taken into account in terms of planning consents when roads are being built. It is equally true to say that large amounts of traffic, stuck in traffic in Auckland, going nowhere and pouring out fumes, is probably a particularly bad way of dealing with greenhouse gas emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a768ec4804548ffb3e63ac6c141f355\u0022\u003EHelplines\u2014Social Development and Employment, Minister\u0027s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee30d4ff374a403b82cbae103111329f\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does he stand by his statement to the House on Tuesday that \u201CThe services provided by the 211 helpline are fundamentally quite different from the citizens advice bureau advice.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9b8a66a6c1d4fafab81df84ff970e63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9b8a66a6c1d4fafab81df84ff970e63\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: The response to that is a categorical \u201CYes\u201D. The 211 family helpline line is a centrally based and staffed helpline. The service operates 7 days a week, and 13 hours a day from 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. It is supported by a continuously reviewed, updated, and web-based national directory of over 6,000 service providers, and a portal to other websites providing knowledge and information on parenting, family, and social issues. The Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux operates a substantial number of local \u201Cshop fronts\u201D accessible by phone from a single 0800 telephone number that automatically directs calls to the nearest branch. Those branches operate independently throughout New Zealand and have different opening hours according to local governance policies, although their base hours are between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ef1e07e3bf41ae9467e8f6349b47dd\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister said the 211 helpline and citizens advice bureaus were fundamentally different, was he aware that of the Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux\u2019 600,000 inquiries per year, 60 percent of those are phone inquiries and the Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux itself considers the helpline is a duplication of what it already provides?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022985aadc619f5407d91b7e4bf390c4990\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: The 211 family helpline services and citizens advice bureaus are very complementary. This is demonstrated by the fact that the 211 family helpline referred 400 calls to the citizens advice bureaus in the pilot period, and the citizens advice bureaus referred 60 calls to the 211 helpline in the same period. The Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux features prominently on the 211 family helpline website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe00e9550cd42559c3738414c45c9c7\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: What reports about support for the 211 family helpline has the Minister seen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc7d7f7cafc64dd1a74420a83152a4f4\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen an email dated 15 August 2005 from a then Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux chief executive, Nick Toonen, to the Bay of Plenty Citizens Advice Bureau offices stating that the national board \u201Cdecided that the Association should formally engage in the 211 community helpline, with this engagement developed and tested through our further phase of the helpline pilot. The board noted that this engagement is not likely to include direct involvement in the call centre providing the helpline and that the stats for Rotorua and Tauranga bureaux do not appear to have been adversely affected by the pilot over the March-June period.\u201D This would seem to reinforce the complementary nature of the two services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15cdaa4ce1e4a2bbfa6bc170d8cf03a\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is aware of the number of phone calls from the Auckland-based 211 helpline to the Rotorua Citizens Advice Bureau asking for advice, why do we not just cut out the middle man and stop this wasteful duplication and give the Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux a bit more money instead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5ca9bf2edea41978846c626c78f3011\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: Any member who has even the faintest notion of waste or that this service should be scrapped might think it worthwhile to obstruct access to family support services. This Government supports families. A survey of families in the pilot area showed there was a need for the service. Of those surveyed, 93 percent said there was either a very big need or some need for this service. The 211 helpline received 15,918 calls over the pilot period. That was equivalent to an average of a call from one in every four Bay of Plenty families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b1a87e93e747bd9fb26ed634e0e006\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Is there any chance of a translation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022839152881d624c038b84a058008246fd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order; that is treating the House trivially.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d467cff7d4d4a8587a59231fcb79b9c\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Normally, Ministers are supposed to keep their answer succinct and to the point. I think the House has been very indulgent of Mr Okeroa and nobody has given him much of a hard time despite all the ramblings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b669d021502471aaf6058f3c31ed7e7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, questions and answers should be succinct. I do remind the House of that. The question was addressed, however.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c345ccf610c4593aaff5f4dc6acdf08\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that one in every four families has used the 211 helpline; and if he does, why have no families ever called the helpline twice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c15070148a84728905797b9b9674cf7\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the first part of the question is yes. The answer to the second part of the question is that the services provided in the first place are quite adequate and we do not need to ring twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e0effd41f5544bdad7b7858426feea8\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: When I asked the Minister on Tuesday why taxpayers were funding a service where each staff member answers, on average, only three calls per day, and that costs over $50 per call, did he say: \u201CThat is not the advice I have.\u201D, when he was the person who supplied those figures in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228590a79cb6f14f5b87b0673bc30862dd\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: What the Minister said I am unsure of, so I am not in a position to offer the appropriate response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269c4718e0dac4eff874043b21617c0e1\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If the citizens advice bureaus already handle 600,000 inquiries, for Government funding of 805,000 a year\u2014that is, for $1.34 per inquiry\u2014why does the Minister not just give them the money he has wasted on his 211 line and get the bureaux\u2019 hours extended? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022985aba8404ea48999cbb9cddfe9190ae\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: We have tried to impress on that member that there is no waste, and that both of these services are complementary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232a9e0719e0f4657a26f012d4263ffe3\u0022\u003EBiosecurity Inspections\u2014Sea Containers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd38c6042c814dce8826343056ee86ef\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Biosecurity: Are there any written guidelines for biosecurity inspectors upon finding contamination within a sea container; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022584c6600db984e4e81b198c1ab3df19f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022584c6600db984e4e81b198c1ab3df19f\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Minister for Biosecurity):\u003C/span\u003E Written guidelines for biosecurity inspectors are included in the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry\u2019s quarantine service process procedure. There are guidelines for the clearance of imported sea containers. Although the current version of those procedures is not as detailed as would seem desirable, quarantine officers are thoroughly and specifically trained in the actions to be taken, if contamination is found. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022424e6f616a5d48d390b5af5f3c3c50e5\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the report of the Auditor-General into managing biosecurity risks associated with high-risk sea containers highlights the fact there is no written guidance on what to do when a contamination is found by a biosecurity inspector; and what steps is he taking urgently to improve that situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224931ed5c9044ff997f8c915e3f2e026\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: There are two groups of officials who inspect containers. There are the quarantine officers of Biosecurity New Zealand, who examine all high-risk containers at the border. They are specifically and thoroughly trained. There are also accredited inspectors, usually from private sector situations, who are accredited to open containers when they are delivered to, for example, warehouses. Those inspectors are also trained. That has been the new system since 2004, and that is where the detailed description of actions to be taken, I think, is wanting. That is what the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry will now turn its attention to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670c3c65cfe04bd7acfd31d3291637bf\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell members of this House what further improvements have been made to the sea container system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7521fc049034093b2e4ed83a505b491\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Prior to 2004\u2014which means for all the period of the 1990s and the period up to 2004\u2014only 25 percent of containers were inspected by the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry\u2019s quarantine service inspectors. Now 100 percent of containers are inspected by those quarantine service inspectors, or by accredited industry persons\u2014a huge change compared with the past situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206049d5d35fa4025907c3a8b0aa93164\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that, as part of the confidence and supply agreement between the Government and New Zealand First, there will be an investigation undertaken into the feasibility of requiring all used-car imports to be decontaminated offshore, and would he agree that if the requirement for offshore decontamination were policy, it would greatly enhance New Zealand\u2019s protection against threats to its biosecurity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0a99ddbc08d401094c847479e6564ba\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before the Minister replies, would members please lower the tone. There was an interjection during that question. It was not respectful of the member. Members are on their last warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1079f487854456ba070b478629c995\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: All used vehicles\u2014100 percent\u2014arriving in New Zealand are inspected internally and externally either offshore or on arrival. A risk analysis is under way, which is a major piece of work, to see whether an import health standard is necessary. These processes and procedures would be developed after that risk analysis. I might say that New Zealand First has been very helpful in supporting that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022960e4395f0fb4ec2a26ae0c1a2c624c0\u0022\u003EImmigration Service\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d1dd92d78ce486d8d988e7561803bd8\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does he have confidence in the decision making of Immigration New Zealand offices around the world; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022a44216b75d0248618a278e209e47ae0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a44216b75d0248618a278e209e47ae0a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Associate Minister of Immigration)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Immigration: Yes, but as with any large organisation there is always room for improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254581e797c214c4d8176ee008be92cff\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied that a father of two foreign fee-paying secondary school students in New Zealand should be issued with a work permit through the Immigration New Zealand office in Korea, having been declined such a work permit on two occasions by the Immigration New Zealand office in Auckland; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58c4993555e4ca89b33b8594252123a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Every application is treated on its merits. For instance, people who cannot obtain a permit in New Zealand may then obtain a visa offshore, if their circumstances have changed. People can make further applications, and if their circumstances have changed, then those applications will be treated individually. The member will know, of course, that I am not permitted to speak about individual cases. If he has evidence that he can provide to me, I am quite happy to investigate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022680a9ad57ac24f4c8825a8a5c155da27\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why would a father of two foreign fee-paying secondary school students be granted a work permit through the Immigration New Zealand office in Korea that states he could work for \u201Cany employer\u201D in \u201Cany position\u201D, when the manager of international students at the secondary school involved was told by the Immigration New Zealand office in Auckland that the man \u201Cdid not qualify in any way, and would definitely not be getting a work permit\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022334681728cc74f66bdddf0c69eaede13\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: As I have just told the member, he will be aware that I am not permitted to speak about individual cases. Each case is treated on a case by case basis in respect of individual circumstances. I invite the member to bring to my attention any information he has, and I will have the matter investigated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b3f49b682a4326b3ec6a74b46dde5f\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to ensure high-quality and consistent immigration decision-making?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a892cde248104d229ed59938aedc2b99\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: In April this year the Government launched the discussion document on the review of the Immigration Act. The review is part of a wider programme that will lead, firstly, to a new legislative foundation; secondly, a new policy framework; and, thirdly, a new integrated service delivery model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022934692d41a0d4f0b9cbf42b125fea451\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why would he blame the recipient of such a work permit, who incidentally cannot speak a word of English, for being part of a scam, when both the Immigration New Zealand operations manual and its website have made it very clear that, since the special guardian visa was introduced, variations to those temporary visas\u2014such as the granting of a work permit\u2014had to comply with work visa and permit policy provisions in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edda394285204eeaa586c643bb406c6c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise for being shrill. As I have said to the member, every application is determined on a case by case basis, according to individual circumstances. If he has information of wrongdoing or potential wrongdoing, I am quite happy, if he gives it to me, to have it investigated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221193269376da40cd81c91f0fbdb32c06\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that the mother of three foreign fee-paying students should have gained a residence permit through the London office of Immigration New Zealand, when the woman was previously in New Zealand on a guardian visa, has now returned to Nigeria to join her husband, and has no intention of living in New Zealand, yet through the granting of the residence visa by the London office now has three children qualifying as domestic students in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b26deec04e04c6da908656405e5ab19\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: For the benefit of the member, again I say that if he has information of wrongdoing and he gives it to me, I will have it investigated. Every case is treated on its merits, on a case by case basis. If the member delivers to me the information, I will have it investigated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc4bb24cd374e6b95e53d2feae95cd8\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister acknowledge that there are several flaws both in our immigration legislation and in our systems, and will he acknowledge also that the agreement for a review, which was negotiated between New Zealand First and the Labour Government, will address many, if not all, of these flaws?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c626290338ca4d568f9f33ac189a8b52\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge both those points. That is why, as I said to the honourable member previously, we have announced a review and a discussion document. The review is part of a wider programme that will lead to a new legislative foundation, a new policy framework, and a new integrated service delivery model. I acknowledge the member\u2019s two points. Of course we can do better, and that is why we are having a review of the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227e0ba30ded94659bff7c6272aefc11c\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he state on Tuesday this week that he had seen no evidence that applications that had been declined in New Zealand had been granted offshore, when his department was advised some time ago that a person whom the Auckland office had said would definitely not get a work permit had attained a permit through the Korean office to work for \u201Cany employer\u201D in \u201Cany position\u201D\u2014or does his department not trust him with that kind of information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3e498193e87450a819e7488867de1e9\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will not repeat the answer about the individual case; the member, I think, by now is aware of that. It is possible for people who have been declined work permits in New Zealand to gain them when they reapply offshore, if their individual circumstances have changed, because all cases are treated on their individual merits. If the member has evidence of wrongdoing, he can give it to me and I will investigate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2057d47bc854db9b5642f7b6d46e175\u0022\u003EEarly Childhood Education\u2014Government Programmes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e8f11cef8541deb6c66d9fdd3ffad7\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to ensure New Zealand children get the best educational start possible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c64b928591fe4d9ba3c231ba8d31110d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c64b928591fe4d9ba3c231ba8d31110d\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is giving every New Zealand child a good start in life, through quality early childhood education and by lowering the costs to parents. The Government recently announced in the Budget a further investment of $162 million over 4 years, and that will help us to implement up to 20 hours per week of free early childhood education for 3 to 4-year-olds in teacher-led services, benefiting around 92,000 children in the first year. We have increased the funding rates for providers by $30 million, and boosting playcentres by an additional $4 million will of course ease the pressure on them. Of course, I acknowledge the outstanding work of my predecessor in helping to develop those policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bc97058069045d5b30553f83f3d3b86\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What reports, if any, has he received about the cost to parents of early childhood education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2490e2eb5ee45aebe58f30db42b8017\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen information from the New Zealand Childcare Association, stating that the average cost of childcare in New Zealand is around $40 per day, which of course will go down further with Working for Families and the introduction of free early childhood education. I have also seen a newspaper article from Australia, showing the average cost of childcare is higher than that. The Sydney Morning Herald found childcare centres charging $90 a day, and one, in a place called Bondi Beach, is planning to charge over $100 a day. That is just one of the many costs that families would face if they took the advice of \u201CDigger\u201D Don Brash and went to Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c5bf0c06547416397b7bc00ec0a3785\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not allowed. Would the member please withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a6b5f7e6db44715a646a499f2d50168\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022439a85a9842d4703ab7664f96d544816\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister consider removing some of the restrictions around the Government funding of early childhood education\u2014for example, by not limiting it to 6 hours on any one day\u2014so that the availability of quality childcare better reflects the actual working times of parents than it currently does?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022535850523c2045c6a806f67311fd64bb\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I will. But along with the early childhood sector, we prefer at the moment to use the current funding formula, which has the 6-hour cap. We all believe that once we have had some experience with 20 hours of free education, we will have an opportunity to see whether we ought to move to the suggestion of the member or stay with the current system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255eeec981108424a9d8c60a56b76617b\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What other costs would someone face as the parent of a preschooler in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae3656faea04a79b04dd0b2d0e4d8a7\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As the parent of a preschooler in Australia, someone may face a personal tax rate of 45 percent, a Medicare levy of 1.5 percent, and an accident compensation levy of 2.47 percent on top of his or her childcare costs. In New Zealand one would pay less tax overall, according to the OECD, pay an accident compensation levy of less than 1 percent, be eligible for paid parental leave of 14 weeks, get tax relief through the Working for Families package, be eligible for childcare subsidies, get childcare costs reduced, and see free early childhood education be introduced in 2007. Those figures once again show how misleading the National Party has been in its drive to ask New Zealanders to go to Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022485bcadfe06b40dda258d2d1e8a65548\u0022\u003EBiosecurity Inspections\u2014Sea Containers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec479fcbcad24541a59b7d23849467ca\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Biosecurity: Does he stand by his statement yesterday, following the release of the Auditor-General\u2019s report on high-risk sea containers, that he \u201Cwas pleased the report did not identify any critical biosecurity risk issues in the importation of sea containers.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u002271e6aa6ed1c546698907b7d2365d2635\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271e6aa6ed1c546698907b7d2365d2635\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Minister for Biosecurity):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I am advised that none of the areas identified for improvement in the Auditor-General\u2019s report\u2014which the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, of course, accepts as a constructive contribution to this issue\u2014represents a critical biosecurity risk. New Zealand is internationally recognised as having some of the toughest border controls in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c830bf24644adb93b2368812748c91\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile those comments with the ones he made on Morning Report today that this report presents \u201Ca bit of a wake-up call\u201D, and \u201Cthere are some issues there. We have to do better. We will struggle to meet rigorous standards.\u201D, and that the report\u2019s criticism of training was \u201Cfair\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0443925da3e49adb9a2e8b442ecec35\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Because all those points are true, and I agree with all of them\u2014more than I agree with the member\u2019s statement earlier this week that biosecurity funding had gone down, when it has demonstrably gone up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220236f919a74d48c5bbdd03fabe210994\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why, despite import health standards for sea containers being a major criticism in the Auditor-General\u2019s 2002 report and in the 2006 report tabled yesterday, are the standards still being heavily criticised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c8c52f9633b446991ea0453881bad71\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The new system of container inspection was introduced in 2004. This came after a long period when only 25 percent of all containers coming into New Zealand were inspected at all. Most of that period was under the responsibility of the previous National Government. Biosecurity has faced an increase of 57 percent in containers during that time. The Government has lifted its baseline funding by 89 percent. Of course, biosecurity is challenging at any border in the world. Anyone who has been around the world knows that New Zealand\u2019s biosecurity procedures are tougher than those of most countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4b671930bb47d68f25c4597ded0dc5\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, in the face of this report, has biosecurity funding\u2014which is far from being boosted by the $32 million, as the Minister has suggested\u2014fallen by $5.9 million in last week\u2019s Budget; and, in the face of this report, is it the case that there is no money for the 15 critical issues that were raised in the Auditor-General\u2019s report that was tabled in the House yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b23ba765604dfa9a6fba0e3d901df7\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is actually $33.1 million, and the member clearly has no understanding of the difference between one-off incursion expenditure, which is not included in Budgets, and the baseline expenditure, which goes up, over the next 4 years, by $33 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d33cd0838404417fbfd9a8d313e2a51d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: So there were no incursions this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c171733a88f449f18960aa02e2290b5c\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Someone on the front bench who has been in a Cabinet of any description at some time in their lives should take the member aside\u2014and should include Mr Nick Smith with him\u2014and teach him a lesson on Government accounting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1cf7ad11a347ab82abc31c6c7e3443\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister expect the land-based industries to trust proposed import health standards for honey when the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry itself has not been able to fully implement the sea container health import standards after 4 years of trying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b04f4884a754d1cbd446a52b9750212\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I advise some of the senior members in the National Party to take aside Mr Ardern and talk to him about biosecurity, international trade obligations, and the evidence-based system that we have to operate as the most dependent export economy in the world. When they have done that, he should come back and see me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241af502d39e42b0961904d0a307d2f8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps the Minister would like to add to his answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b68284d86e44fd87eede6b2deffec0\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The evidence-based biosecurity system that New Zealand operates by\u2014and every reputable country in the world aims to act by\u2014requires scientific evidence as to whether any imported good would be a health risk to New Zealand. The scientific evidence this Government has is that heat-treated honey from Australia or the Pacific Islands will be perfectly safe. If the member wants to put his scientific evidence up against all the international experts we have consulted, I would like to see it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a303de0eff4888befacfecf74611ab\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister use the excuse on Morning Report: \u201CUp to 2004 there were no important health standards on containers\u201D, and then repeat that in the House today and say that the Auditor-General \u201Csays that as well\u201D, when the previous import health standards for managing biosecurity risks associated with sea containers have been in place since 1998?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc8621241d20492c8f6677cc27a681e8\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: In 2004 an extraordinarily high new standard of import health safety regulations were brought in by Biosecurity New Zealand. At the same time, New Zealand faced a 57 percent increase in containers, and Biosecurity New Zealand set itself the highest standards in the world to meet. The fact that it has not yet met those high standards does not mean to say this Government and the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry are not determined to meet them. I wish that Mr Ardern, like may other people around the world, would at some time start praising New Zealand and the systems we have, rather than running them down all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b554eacc46e46bf861ad3f507a0f685\u0022\u003EMusic\u2014Government Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022792274608730431bb3ee4b5bfd687e1c\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: What has the Government done to support New Zealand music?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u002243a820d2984144aea2876ead20667d49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243a820d2984144aea2876ead20667d49\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E At the end of the sixth New Zealand Music Month it gives me great pleasure to tell the House that more than $5 million per annum has been invested by this Government in New Zealand On Air, Creative New Zealand, Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho, and the New Zealand Music Industry Commission. At least $19 million has gone into the support of New Zealand music through the funding of orchestras\u2014especially the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra\u2014opera companies, Sounz, the ballet, and grants to composers and performers. The Government has also supported New Zealand music through the universities and the arts curriculum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eecdf4f6b5fe41b9bbd5a908c3de7b26\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence is there of the success of the Government\u2019s music policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab51a604658847cdbc70cc6b94b28d2c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: The National Party members appear not to like New Zealand music, either. One example is the enormous success of the voluntary code of practice met by New Zealand radio broadcasters. It aimed to have 20 percent of New Zealand music being played across New Zealand radios. That percentage was up from 1.9 percent, when National was the Government, to 20.77 percent last year, and we will exceed even that this year. We are seeing top New Zealand musicians selling New Zealand music. It was 28 percent of sales in New Zealand Music Month 2005. We have also seen magnificent exports, with Breaks Co-op up in the top 40 in the UK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a46b8887be4927a84dd5b5cc1d389d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to support the export of New Zealand music?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b995a1be08e4caa8e88f12aeb9c66eb\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am very proud to be in charge of an area that demonstrates that New Zealand and New Zealanders are dynamic and willing to take risks to make better exports for all of us, so we have better lives. We have put more money into New Zealand on Air, with $850,000 per annum going into Phase Five, a programme that promotes New Zealand music to the international news media, and we have provided $444,000 extra to the Music Industry Commission for the Outward Sound programme, which National obviously does not know about. We have put $178,000 into promoting New Zealand music at music fairs and trade fairs around the world. We have also put money into the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra and Sounz, to tour New Zealand music internationally\u2014to great acclaim. I am very sorry that the music coming from the other side of the House is such a sad dirge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c093bd2844c4d19b4684e97dd7e8ee0\u0022\u003ETe Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d883d6d8284419fb93a49372b934735\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Was he satisfied with the performance of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri at the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb88b6083062482385c71a3937e7855f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb88b6083062482385c71a3937e7855f\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e251c3cafb9a4d19a5f0153411816421\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his comment in the House on 11 May 2006 that Leith Comer was carrying out Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s statutory monitoring role well, when Leith Comer himself told the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that he had consciously moved resources out of the monitoring area, and the committee\u2019s financial review found that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri was failing to meet this fundamental legislative requirement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022997cb8942dd94d758f59aea351b59251\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the first part of the question is yes; in respect of the second part of the question the member is twisting what was found in that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb2674a03b34ba9b3442706fe250179\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: What achievements did the Minister tell the committee about yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f08421308746099b3ae010faf9f7ee\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I told the truth. I told the committee that more M\u0101ori are working than ever before. I told the committee that more M\u0101ori are participating in education, at all levels. I told the committee that the M\u0101ori asset base is growing and is being well-used. I told the committee that M\u0101ori are making a strong contribution to this economy, and that common-sense people are recognising this. I told the committee that M\u0101ori are celebrating success across sports, arts, and culture, and there is an abundance of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb37246be5940ba92006e5b4fbdacb5\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister advocate for the cutting of funding for local level solutions for M\u0101ori in this year\u2019s Budget, or was this programme cut because, as he himself has described in this House, advocating for M\u0101ori is \u201Ctiresome\u201D, and he could not be bothered arguing for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d75a4a9312645c086e6b7ff08f90299\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Sometimes we do feel like that when working with our constituency. But they are great people. I also added that we loved them, irrespective of how they made us feel. But we did allocate $14.8 million in 2005\u2014and certainly outreached for 4 years. I do care about the M\u0101ori people, and this Government has done the right thing\u2014unlike the last time National was in Government. What did National do when it was last in Government? It stripped $1.3 billion\u2014tax cuts\u2014out of social services. When it sniffed the recession coming on it sold all the State houses and put M\u0101ori on the road. That was under Tau Henare\u2019s watch. He did nothing!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c647b7b628f4795999eeeb1e36484da\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: When he praised his ministry\u2019s performance on the basis of the report of the Controller and Auditor-General, which found that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri had not significantly breached any law, did he mean that breaking the law was OK for Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, provided the Auditor-General does not catch it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205adf8c2f89749ac9d1f6297a2e432dc\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I meant no such thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa3598b1077d4dc5bf39d7891f688f0a\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Is Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s inability to answer basic questions before the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee one of the high performance achievements of his ministry that he takes personal pride in, or is his view closer to the way he described his ministry in its performance as being \u201Ctedious\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220967d770f1714d1c868a165d77b705ed\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: When I came in as Minister, the ministry had $55 million. It now has $156 million. We certainly had our ups and downs when I became the Minister, when I was bullied and barraged by that member over there. But 6 years on, our position is certainly one of wanting to move M\u0101ori from dependency to development. What is wrong with that? And this Government has achieved great things, like a 70 percent decline in poverty\u201430 percent of that being M\u0101ori poverty\u2014and attention to early childcare, 27 percent of that being M\u0101ori. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with M\u0101ori getting into a better space?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3279d40a746490b851a90b2f1d48b80\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister justify his claim\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae1e21f1142472688964815241343c4\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: Got the right paper, Tau?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f53505c0813c4319a2e61a5abacc99ac\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have been booted out of this House for less than that. I do not want to regurgitate that, but I honestly believe I have been hard-done-by\u2014[Interruption] And there we go again. That is the second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762b47dc84f7497aabd866d11d2d0eab\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will ask the Minister to leave the Chamber, please, for intervening on the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220381bf4babca43dcb7f28909db0f27de\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was the Minister who actually made the comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022307f8f2d3c5243c0a6b827a394fc3cfd\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: It was both of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241c597fa100048308a0d7546c459eecd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was both of them. I think both Ministers should leave the Chamber. As the member said, one has to be fair about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f2f013086074aadb6578e4fe2c042d0\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House for the Minister Parekura Horomia to return and answer the next set of supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cae88a0d44f54f9596e38ec3db12638c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is a bit of a dilemma. Normally\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd3ceff86ce342348ae64a351654cc34\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246c012e987714dfc810f65ff9e037cfd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am addressing the question. The member will please be seated. I am addressing the member\u2019s question. The normal practice is, of course, that if members are asked to leave, and they are to ask a question or to answer it, they will be asked to come back. I shall follow that practice. I do not need any help from the members. I think we had better ask for the Minister to be called back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fb6f65434f644fba9aabe5e0a94ae72\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I ask that a messenger be asked to find the member concerned if there is a requirement for him to come back to the Chamber. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248b2018507f2439b93850e8e186916c7\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister justify the claim he made yesterday that Budget appropriations should not be discussed by parliamentary select committees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f616c4da97ad41d19dc9b02cc3c49af1\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I did not say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022861d44c2607c40dbade8cc176b525de0\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How can he justify the claim he made yesterday, that Budget appropriations should not be discussed by parliamentary select committees, and if he really believes that, where does he believe Budget appropriations should be discussed\u2014in the TAB?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c1ae7b0979147d5abfc92fc87704314\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I do not frequent the TAB\u2014unlike that member opposite\u2014and certainly the appropriate place is in select committees and in consultation with the Treasurer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226919a605a7214aa5b7525e9402613245\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is an intriguing answer from the Minister. I wonder whether we might now have an indication from the Minister of Finance\u2014I presume, as opposed to the Treasurer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218b838dbab3c4b54b19d1e8c9356197c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, as the member well knows, but he can ask a supplementary question if he wants further clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8e531e49a2a44f789e8a1730505c6a4\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not want to waste a supplementary question on this matter. But I just wonder when the Minister of Finance might be available to come to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to discuss Vote M\u0101ori Affairs with the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ffbc325f8c448592d2a6e52dcf38fb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfec34b5727548d4a8dec45c2a3774fc\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether you could clarify the situation. We had a question from the Hon Tau Henare and an answer from the Minister, in which he denied making the statement that Tau Henare alleged he made, then we had a second question, based on the assumption that he did make the statement. I believe the Minister, and I think as honourable members we are obliged to believe the Minister. He denied making the statement that Tau Henare said he made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce7d6ebee11643fcae1f3acf088f59e3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing to prevent members from asking questions. Consistency is not required under the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4555dc19288445fae928f48d073dea6\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report on the goings-on in the select committee yesterday, which has a detailed verbatim description of what the Minister said in the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089073f3b55b441d8041a15c3db35976\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0306023b32f4149a379c80e00e2248d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u002208ac4dc22ef849a2bced830d997aaa42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208ac4dc22ef849a2bced830d997aaa42\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. He korapa kei te tuhituhinga o taku p\u0101tai. I te r\u0101rangi whakamutunga, ehara ko te tau tuarau engari ko te tau tuarua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[There is an error in the way my question was written. In the last line it should be not tau tuarau\u2014100th year\u2014but tau tuarua\u2014second year.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022119149980758401db2da973251582fb6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to change that word. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002254b9c9fcd69b4e23b0aba323ce483201\u0022\u003EVote M\u0101ori Affairs\u2014Budget 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f41652caa284396a5dba66ea2854c56\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: He aha a ia i kore ai e tuku tono p\u0113r\u0101 i t\u0101 t\u0113tahi n\u016Bpepa i k\u012B, m\u014D t\u0113tahi p\u016Btea kia pakari ai te Ao M\u0101ori, \u0101, ka taea e ia te whakam\u0101rama ki t\u0113nei Whare te take ko t\u0113nei te tau tuarua k\u0101ore i kapohia e ia he rawa h\u014Du hei p\u016Btea m\u014D t\u014Dna tari?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[Why did he reportedly not submit a Budget bid to strengthen the position of M\u0101ori, and what explanation can he give the House for this being the second consecutive year that his department has not received any new funding?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022e93f22310d91451bb76f29b45e6a359f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e93f22310d91451bb76f29b45e6a359f\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E This year the Government made it very clear that there would be limited funding for new initiatives. I asked Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to look at how it could better utilise existing funding, and how that funding could be aligned with the Government\u2019s priorities and the aspirations of the M\u0101ori people. It is about Te Puni K\u014Dkiri being able to continue to work with M\u0101ori to support M\u0101ori, and to make the most of its resources and assets, its knowledge, its skills, and its leadership capability. The member is wrong; Budget 2005 did provide more money for Vote M\u0101ori Affairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496c9e75088c4344948a6a10e38d9ddd\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: He aha ai k\u0101re i tono m\u014D t\u0113tahi ake p\u016Btea m\u0101 Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, \u0101, i tono r\u0101nei ki Te T\u0101huhu o te M\u0101tauranga kia noho tonu te p\u016Btea Manaaki Tauira m\u014D ng\u0101 tauira M\u0101ori iwa mano?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[Why did he not bid for alternative funding for Te Puni K\u014Dkiri or for the Ministry of Education, to keep the manaaki tauira student grant scheme going on behalf of those 9,000 M\u0101ori students?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2dc5f60218341e1b2a3ef302ee4a246\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: It is part of the general premise of where Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is moving, and manaaki tauira is out of that area. When it started to be delivered there were about 8,000 students receiving tertiary education; there are now 90,000 students\u2014only 11 percent were using it. The money has not been cancelled and it has not disappeared. It has moved to strengthening teacher capability in secondary schools, in order for young people to be encouraged and developed, so that when they get tertiary education they do better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a901f68c6340b49237c804916457fe\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister\u2019s failure to seek more funding in the latest Budget round lead him to agree with the National Party view that there has been considerable wastage in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s activities, and that it is extremely hard to work out exactly what that ministry does?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f51341aaa7c345b79aea8586a29bdf57\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: The financial report with its recommendation on how Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has performed is there for that member to read. If he got out more often amongst M\u0101ori like I do, as the real M\u0101ori spokesperson, he would see that a lot of good action is done by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. [Interruption] That member never ever went out; he stayed home from Thursday night through to Sunday night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022178a2ff61966410eb7fcb1a6784018d1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister may sling off at me all he likes, but he does have some obligation to address the question. The question was whether he agreed that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has had considerable waste attached to it, and that it is very, very hard to work out exactly what it does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f306dcb609be478595c9bbc5acffe17c\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I am very clear, along with a whole lot of M\u0101ori people, about exactly what Te Puni K\u014Dkiri does. That my friend over there is slow in picking it up and understanding it is not my problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a9f60de4b8413c8857b1fc0e11a401\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: E whakapono ana ia e pai ana te haere o ng\u0101 mahi a ng\u0101 tari matua, \u0101, m\u0113n\u0101 kei te whakaae ia kei a ia ng\u0101 whakaaturanga hei k\u012B, e pai ana ng\u0101 mahi o aua tari?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Does he believe that mainstreaming works; if he does, what proof does he have of the success of mainstream departments?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097a7abcdc174cb4820db3984990bbee\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that if M\u0101ori can get to Harvard, and that is mainstreaming, I am supportive of it. If M\u0101ori people can build a house and keep their family comfortable, and that is mainstreaming, I believe in it. If mainstreaming means that M\u0101ori become business owners and business managers, I believe in it. But I also believe in recognising our tikanga and culture and keeping it strong. That is what I believe in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253fcd5beda0a43b399e5e3b712224499\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister please explain, in light of comments in this House associating Vote M\u0101ori Affairs baseline funding with the fact that M\u0101ori unemployment has dropped from a record high of 18.9 percent to 8.6 percent, why on the East Coast, his own electorate, in 2001, 50 percent of the population receiving the unemployment benefit were M\u0101ori, and in March 2006 that percentage had increased to 64 percent; why in Waiariki the percentage increase in M\u0101ori unemployment grew from 49 percent in 2001 to 66 percent in 2006; and why in my own electorate of Te Tai Tokerau the percentage increase in M\u0101ori unemployment also grew, from 53 percent in 2001 to 64 percent in 2006\u2014and what will Te Puni K\u014Dkiri be doing to address these disparities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1502625da87423cad1ba3dc25872baf\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: A number of issues are relevant to the statistical assumptions of my learned friend from Te Tai Tokerau, but first I want to remind him that when we came in the unemployment rate was 22.6 percent, and it tracked down to 6.4 percent. It has now risen to 8.1 percent. At the end of the day, that is about a lack of industry and a lack of skills, and that is what this Government is focusing on. It is about a strong economy, as we were reminded by Dr Cullen yesterday, but these people do not seem to like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c929f4e782624de6b5b4e78160990709\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The question was specifically directed to unemployment on the East Coast, in Waiariki, and in Te Tai Tokerau, and it was not answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263f4faa7f0304b358ffa73fa9eed9407\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member cannot require a specific answer. But the Minister certainly addressed the question of unemployment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9b0ceb40504d619240d6d800712892\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: E hia te p\u016Btea i roto i ng\u0101 tahua p\u016Btea e pahore tata ake nei i whiwhia ki Te Tari M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[What was the funding allocated recently to the Ministry of M\u0101ori Affairs in the Budget?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b72c812ecf7c4cc985cbcbadb20a1f96\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has been in power for 6 years. When we came to office, Vote M\u0101ori Affairs was $55 million. The previous Government got rid of $200 million in that area\u2014got rid of it. Budget 2005 provided $14.8 million for K\u0101pohia ng\u0101 Rawa over 4 years. Budget 2005 provided $4.6 million for M\u0101ori radio broadcasting over 4 years, $2.5 million for the Hui Taumata action task force, and $200,000 for M\u0101 Te Reo to help all New Zealanders understand this great language well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a64e44f9ef49ee9e57d1d1687a24e3\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the Minister\u2019s comments that the figures I gave were an assumption, I say they were not. I seek leave of the House to table the numbers on the unemployment benefit as at March 2001 and March 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5926c5fcb704941923e0cd064058f67\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: I runga i te whakautu i t\u0113r\u0101 wiki, ehara t\u0113nei Whare i te w\u0101hi hei whakaw\u0101 i te k\u0101wana m\u014D ng\u0101 mahi kuare a Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, ka taea e ia te k\u014Drero ki t\u0113nei Whare, kia haere r\u0101tau ki whea, whakaw\u0101 ai i ia me t\u014Dna tari?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[Following the response last week that this House is not the forum to hold the Government accountable for the poor performance of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, where would he recommend this House go to hear him account for his performance and the performance of his department?] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ed5fc867d444fbc96fc94da7721f959\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: E tautoko ake an\u014D w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 whakaaro n\u014D t\u014Dku whakahoki ki a koe e Pita i t\u0113r\u0101 r\u0101, e k\u014Drero anake m\u014D te whakaae o te taea i konei hei k\u014Drero ake an\u014D. Engari n\u0101 te whakaaro i roto i \u0101ku, n\u0101 t\u014D wera M\u0101ori m\u014D ng\u0101 kanohi M\u0101ori i roto i a te Tari. T\u0113n\u0101 ake an\u014D te mea. K\u0101re e hiahia au i roto i a \u0101ku e tautokotia ake an\u014D t\u014D whakaaro, e taea ake an\u014D ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i runga i te Whare P\u0101remata nei. My response to my learned elder Dr Sharples is that I also added, after he had asked the question, that this was the place to bring that issue, but I thought it was not the place to make his insinuation and wero\u2014his challenge\u2014about the M\u0101ori members and the M\u0101ori ministry, and that that was for other places. That is what I meant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31cd4f1d82a48a2ad846f9799d83d49\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am sorry to disturb my colleague, but I think it is time for the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs to leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275145cf478334aca82003225c97105b6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will ask the Minister to leave the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002254cb32f920864b3eb3722090ebf06a12\u0022\u003ETransmission Gully\u2014Construction Date\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a79157aab74066b075406e57f7286f\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: When does she envisage the first bulldozer will appear working on the designated route for Transmission Gully?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac5dcc70163e4ee58aa7fe8d5230f2a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac5dcc70163e4ee58aa7fe8d5230f2a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Acting Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister already has envisaged that. That is why Transmission Gully is, for the first time, on a 5-year programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1f2607b3254fe59fcfcde6e670fc25\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: With the huge delays currently being experienced by motorists, which will only get worse, does she think it is acceptable that Transit will take another 5 years before it will state that Transmission Gully is viable, or will she tell Transit that 5 years is too long to wait for another report and instruct it to proceed with urgency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237250fde64f04358976a9df6a2558b84\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers do not instruct Transit; we have had an interchange on that matter previously this afternoon. There is a great deal of geotechnical work to be done. There is also the small matter of Wellington local authorities coming up with their share of the funding, according to all the agreements we previously had in respect of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bd7f63e43f54b18873460d1cdd0a4c0\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: With all the reports, investigations, and studies commissioned over the last 10 years on the viability of Transmission Gully, does she think that the $80 million spend and a 5-year delay by Transit will add any significant value, or will it be just another $80 million spent on work that has already been done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26be7e1e67948fc9d4db0f2a056abb4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think that question summed up the National Party: one builds a road without doing the geotechnical work first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa24102660741c7a01600659c50527c\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What funding has the Government already committed to the Wellington region, and is the Minister aware of any other alternative funding proposals that include Transmission Gully?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0daf6681ba4ba583378994b4faf6e2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: In March 2004 the Government announced an additional $225 million as part of the Investing for Growth package. In June a further contribution of $255 million was made as part of the Wellington western corridor package, then the Government contributed up to $405 million conditional on regional agreement. I note that this particular project, despite the questioner asking these questions today, did not appear in the National Party manifesto or in its proposed fiscal plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0e5304d73be4030a8c1a4cffb3b9660\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Dos the Minister agree that a further 5-year delay will increase the cost of the project, even just accounting for inflation, to the stage that it could become unaffordable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288c3636cc7114659b46a077a3227c8ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I reply again to the member: we will not repeat the mistakes the previous Government made when it decided to build a road for the Waikato, without discovering first what the area was like. We are now trying to stop that road from slumping all over the place as we are building it. We need a geotechnical survey before we build a road through an area that has not been surveyed for that purpose. He, of course, would not do that. He would just keep spending and spending, and if anything went wrong, he would probably blame M\u0101ori for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3548acf92eb4ab49acd62c8cb85c9ed\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give us any reports on the proposal from Roger Sowry, the previous transport spokesperson for the National Party, that the National Party\u2019s highest priority was a six-lane highway between Auckland and Wellington; could he tell us what effect that may have on Transmission Gully and other proposals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ed6626ea9004fe69a1fab59dbeceb08\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member exaggerates slightly. I seem to recollect Mr Sowry proposed a four-lane highway between Auckland and Wellington. What he did not tell Wellingtonians was that it would start in Auckland and arrive in Wellington a long, long time from now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222125eb67a184f5185c42e9cd057727e\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that Transmission Gully has been on the political agenda since the late 1980s - early 1990s, when it would have cost a good deal less, and that National did absolutely zilch when it had the opportunity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5169d8dbfd4a11958199e592afa91b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that there were 9 long years when not a single bit of tarmac was laid for Transmission Gully under the National Government. But I do have to say that all the experience is that the cost of most roads tends to increase as one finds out what one has to do in order to build them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237341ca2f67c40acb3f7a62cb91640d3\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: If Transit takes 5 years, as it plans, to do another report, and that report ends up stating the road is not viable, what is Plan B; how will the Minister tell the angry, frustrated motorists that one may well need to start from scratch again in 5 years\u2019 time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c80aa504c8b34ff0a66ef67f2225d794\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Plan B is actually already on the agenda; it was Plan A before Wellington decided it wanted that as Plan A instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992f4312b04f4febaa92dbb462edfb40\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any previous reports from a former Mayor of Wellington opposing Transmission Gully?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220244339d834f4236bee6c75916686d54\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have to say there has been consistent opposition from the mayors of Wellington to the building of Transmission Gully, but maybe the member stumbled over the truth sometime during the election campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff6ee473c8804749a258ec700ba6979f\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure Fran is listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f59c960b492461c865a8b1019525ebb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b8729706d864928be927a04f221d5ba\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister have confidence in the board of Transit, when Transit stated in the Dominion Post just this week it was questioning whether it should rip up the asphalt between Pukerua Bay and Plimmerton\u2014a project it has just recently completed, at a cost of tens of millions of dollars\u2014and return the entire route back to just two lanes, which is a truly ridiculous suggestion, as I am sure the Minister would agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224036c4a5d9e749db85d0e1ac7ad5a77c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I sure there is some sense of frustration in Transit about the length of time Wellington has taken to decide upon its preferred operation, in terms of the western corridor. There have always been arguments on both sides in that respect. Members opposite put their fingers in the breeze, and decide on the basis of whatever way the wind is blowing which is the best road to build.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1083c2cb64448f9bef31aab81806f7b\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a 1995 report on geological factors relating to Transmission Gully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299da27764f79490680a3d76a83536bea\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a 1996 assessment of environmental factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7072846b7874394b7854d73ada3e289\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a 2004 Transmission Gully motorway cost estimate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220284e369b14445a0b38b6d51324fcd77\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a 2005 cost and programme review update on the Transmission Gully motorway and the coastal route.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bbbe6d08f4c433ebeb392aa02e94245\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two items from the Dominion Post of Tuesday, 23 May. The first is headed \u201CCongestion on a road to nowhere\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260fc4142d69647a290ccb2180306b179\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that. There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227501d510a50c47d797dfa3e34c583ff1\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table another item from the Dominion Post this week, entitled \u201CDrivers in for decade of delay\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9b4915519c44ed1a6a3707675b01759\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef99b0846ae2470d97872f5e2cc74ae8\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9636cc767764fe1ba3f87ed7560b0e3\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2006/07 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000255\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 24 May on the .\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00226e2ff204a9a54416b66460bb30a656bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e2ff204a9a54416b66460bb30a656bd\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The seventh Budget delivered by Michael Cullen is an outstanding Budget. It demonstrates that, for the first time, New Zealand has a net surplus. This country inherited decades of debt from National. Not only have we got a surplus but we are paying money into a fund to guarantee superannuation for the future. The Budget provides for more police, more teachers, and more social workers. We have the lowest rate of unemployment in living memory, and Michael Cullen is only beginning to approach the mid-point of his career as Minister of Finance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThis country has done fabulously well under the stewardship of the good doctor, Michael Cullen. New Zealand is now one of the envies of the world for its economic stewardship. It has record lows in unemployment, record savings for superannuation, more police, more teachers, and more of everything we want. Anything that should be up is up, and everything that should be down is down. It is a fantastic Budget for this country. Dr Michael Cullen will continue to deliver Budgets for the benefit of New Zealand, and the Labour-led Government can look forward to many terms in office as a consequence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00229c335819985e4883acd537f08acb1c6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c335819985e4883acd537f08acb1c6b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I congratulate that member on that brief, scintillating, and brilliant speech, in which he managed to mention my name as often as John Key did in his speech during the Budget debate\u2014he seems to have a fixation about me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ENational members have had one simple message throughout this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d51b8494c441eeb4c58f2a82fc7792\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s it been?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a20d29b68f841c1b40685707e389797\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWe lost, you won, we\u2019ve got indigestion.\u201D That is all they have managed to say during this entire debate, so far. The other thing they did during the debate was to keep asking themselves this simple question: \u201CWhy are we here?\u201D. We echoed it. We too asked them why they are here, because they said they wanted to be in Australia. They said: \u201CPlease free us from this bondage so we can go to Australia.\u201D Indeed, that dinky-di Australian, Don Brash, acted as a sort of advertising agency for the Australian immigration office throughout his speech, followed by both his acolytes and the rest of the members of the National caucus, during the Budget debate we have had so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EI will respond on a couple of issues. I do not want to attack my friends in Australia, but it is true that I thought a couple of things Peter Costello said raised some issues about the tradition of mateship that Australians are supposed to stand by. But let us look at growth over the last 5 years. Per capita GDP growth in this country rose by 12.4 percent. In Australia, it rose by 9.9 percent. It was one-quarter more in New Zealand. But what about the previous 5 years, for comparison, when Dr Brash\u2019s colleagues were in office? Australia had a growth rate of 17.9 percent; New Zealand\u2019s rate was 11.9 percent\u2014two-thirds the size of Australia\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat about that taxation? We will hear a lot this afternoon about capital gains tax. In Australia, every taxpayer has to pay a net capital gains tax on their worldwide assets every year, in full\u2014100 percent capital gains tax, worldwide, every year\u2014and that is in a country where there is a 1.5 percent Medicare surcharge. And if someone is earning over $50,000 and does not have private hospital insurance, there is another 1.5 percent on top of that. Plus, there is stamp duty that might set that person back 20,000 bucks when he or she buys a house in Sydney. So before Dr Lockwood Smith strips off his gear again and rushes off to Bondi, he had better think about the stamp duties he might have to pay when he gets there, and the extra taxes he will have to pay. Members should not believe what Dr Donald T, \u201CDinky-di\u201D Brash is telling them about going to Australia. [Interruption] What is Ms Bennett trying to say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0f46fa9f8bf44c6b45418a112d317b6\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I said: \u201CGosh, you\u2019re funny!\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f39e156e3c36494986343adc102a9508\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I do not know what I said that was so funny. Perhaps she will tell me later, and we will learn about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EOf course, Dr Brash used to be extremely close to the Business Roundtable. He used to tell us that he believed in cutting health spending, cutting education spending, and cutting spending in almost every area of Government. These days, of course, he has only a loose connection with the Business Roundtable, and he tells us that he will increase health spending, increase education spending, increase law and order spending, increase roading spending, and that he will cut taxes but will not increase borrowing; he will just increase debt. That is the National Party\u2019s fiscal position as explained by Dr Brash, almost entirely by himself, on Morning Report the day after the Budget. I could not believe it. He said there would be more spending on roads, more on health, more on education, more on law and order, and that there would be less revenue but they would not be borrowing more. There are just too many tooth fairies opposite for that to be believable in terms of where National gets to with its fiscal position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo what did the Budget actually do? First of all, a lot of money is to be spent on roading. That has got the Greens upset, but all I can say is that they should look at the big four-lane cycle tracks we will be building for them in the future, throughout New Zealand. The Greens will be able to cycle fully abreast\u2014the entire caucus\u2014down some of those roads. They will be able to take a positive view of life in that respect, and they will stop moaning about the fact that some of us poor, decrepit, older ones who cannot ride our bicycles for about 100 kilometres will be using our cars and getting along more rapidly as a consequence\u2014with less pollution, and hopefully killing far fewer people on the way, because we would have addressed safety issues on those roads. In the Waikato and Bay of Plenty, those safety issues are very serious indeed. There are terrible rates of vehicle accidents in some of those parts of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b86d62e8edd149c6ae35688bd30161dc\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not going to see these roads for years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720364cfc9734c5d9859cb4035989e03\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it will take some time to build the roads, because the National Government left a huge infrastructure deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDuring this period of time we will be spending 130 percent more per year on roads than we inherited from National. We will be spending on land transport all of the income from excise duty, from road-user charges, and from motor vehicle registration fees. So when people in Auckland and Wellington say they want even more spent on public transport, it has to come out of general taxation. There is nothing left out of the fees on motorists to spend in those areas. So they have to make a strong case and not simply tell me that if we put electric engines rather than diesel engines in trains, Aucklanders, who are so unused to the notion of electric trains, will flood on to them in perpetuity and use them instead of diesel trains. Given that this is a country where one-quarter of us go overseas every year, it seems likely that most Aucklanders have already been on electric trains and have already enjoyed the experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESecondly, we did\u2014let us announce it again; a sort of ex post facto leak\u2014indeed foreshadow the regulation of telecommunications; unbundling the loop. What has that done? Already, Telecom has indicated investment in higher speed broadband. Already, TelstraClear has indicated massive investment. Even before the legislation has been drafted, we are getting investment committed to improve this country\u2019s telecommunications system. That is a major improvement, crucial to economic transformation, and crucial to economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E Thirdly in this Budget, we provided the funding for the introduction of the KiwiSaver scheme, which will lift the rate of savings. The only argument now is about whether it should be compulsory, but I note that nobody in business wants to pay for it, as they do in Australia. They want employees to pay for that, if it is going to be a compulsory scheme. Fourthly, we provided for the fulfilling of our promises. Now, that is the bit the National Party hates about all the seven Budgets I have produced. In every one we fulfilled pre-election promises and other undertakings. That for National members is indecent, appalling, and a betrayal of the political tradition that they are the proud inheritors of, which is: \u201CSay everything to get elected and then turn round and deny it. Once you\u2019re in and don\u2019t actually do it.\u201D That is the approach they believe Governments should take. We do not take it. And, of course, we do not have to pay for just our own promises; we have to pay for some other people\u2019s as well, as part of forming Governments under MMP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThen I foreshadowed that Mr Dunne and I are working on a business taxation document that will address issues of taxation within the business area and assist in terms of productivity growth and economic growth within New Zealand. We signalled more investment in skills, and more investment in building human capital in the country, which is the most important input.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe Government makes no apology for the fact that in this Budget we provided the money to give an $88 a week increase, on average, to 350,000 families with children, reducing the number of children living in poverty, by 2007, by some 70 percent, compared with the figures that we inherited from a National Government. We do not believe we have to have New Zealanders living in mass poverty in order to make a few people comfortable about living here. If some people believe they must live in a country with high levels of poverty in order to feel good, then they should go\u2014leave this country\u2014because this country\u2019s national identity is not one for people who believe that kind of thing. This is a country committed to social justice, committed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebe109ba2a364c3da5f77ff188324bf8\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re so arrogant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271405a44d6d141fa9637e1490aec2439\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is not arrogant. Abolishing poverty is not arrogant, I say to Dr Lockwood Smith. If he did not come from such a privileged background, he would not say something as stupid as that. The most important thing a Government can do in the modern world is ensure that all its citizens can enjoy a decent life, bring up their children in decency, enjoy good employment, have a decent house, and retire with dignity. If Dr Lockwood Smith hates that, then he can go to a country where they do not do those things, and I will stay here with a Labour Government for years and years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ad93a8e69dfa43c193c68af02e8d1061\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That all the words after \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following inserted: \u201Cthis House has no confidence in this Labour-led Government, because for 7 years it has demonstrated a lack of vision, and a lack of the policies to transform New Zealand into a high-income, high-growth nation, and has instead wasted the opportunities provided by buoyant international conditions by overtaxing New Zealanders and wasting billions of taxpayers\u0027 dollars on low-quality spending programmes.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cde198b921bc4aeab99b0e6f35cedf2d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2006/07 Estimates) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9636cc767764fe1ba3f87ed7560b0e3\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203702fa67b2040a284fcbb8de5105bd0\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022d47f35f8b2474527a9b99b2d8de0e9ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d47f35f8b2474527a9b99b2d8de0e9ec\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill be now read a first time. I shall be recommending later that the bill be referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee for consideration. The central feature of the bill is a wide-ranging reform of the taxation of income from share investments, whether through New Zealand - based managed funds or direct investment. To understand the reform it is necessary to look at the wider picture of how that investment income is taxed now, and what is wrong with the way it is being taxed now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ETo look at only a part of the picture, or at a small corner of that picture, is to miss the rationale of the shape and the sense of the reform. The current tax rules on share investment operate very unevenly. They overtax some investors\u2014they favour direct investment by individuals over investment through funds, and they favour investment in some countries over investment in others. What the bill does is place the tax treatment of different types of share investment on an equal footing to introduce greater fairness into the rules and to reduce the distortions they create. From next year, people who invest in New Zealand - based managed funds will see greater fairness in the way their investment income is taxed. The new rules will remove several tax disadvantages for people investing through managed funds, many of whom are ordinary middle-income savers. And with the expected introduction of KiwiSaver from next year, many more will be joining their ranks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E One of the key improvements in the taxation of income from New Zealand - based managed funds is that lower-income investors whose investment income is currently overtaxed at 33 percent will now be taxed at their correct rate. Those whose tax rate is 39 percent will continue to have their savings through funds taxed at 33 percent. The other key improvement is that capital gains on New Zealand and Australian shares held via a New Zealand - based managed fund will no longer be taxed. This will increase the gains for people who invest in this way and put them on an equal tax footing with direct investors into New Zealand and Australian shares. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe current tax rules on offshore investment and shares are riddled with inconsistencies, with the result that some investors pay less tax than others who have similar investments. Under the current rules, individuals who invest in shares and companies based in one of eight so-called \u201Cgrey list\u201D countries, such as the United States or the United Kingdom, pay little or no tax in New Zealand on their investment income. The simple reason is that companies in those countries usually pay low or no dividends on which those investors can be taxed. On the other hand, the same investment made through a New Zealand - managed fund will typically be taxed at 100 percent of realised capital gains. The proposed rules will generally align the tax treatment of \u201Cgrey list\u201D investment done directly and through managed funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EAnother huge inconsistency in the way offshore share investments are currently taxed is that direct investors in shares in companies in the remaining countries, such as Singapore, India, Korea, and even China, have a much higher tax burden. They must pay tax in New Zealand on 100 percent of the increase in the value of their shares each year. That group of direct investors will be better off under the new rules because unless their dividends are higher they, together with all the other direct investors in offshore shares, will pay tax on 5 percent of the opening value of their shares in most years, limited to 85 percent of any gain they make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMost individuals who hold overseas shares outside Australia will not be affected by these changes, because those whose shares cost less than $50,000 will be exempted. That threshold of $50,000 for each individual obviously means that a couple could easily hold between them shares costing up to $100,000 without being affected. However, direct investors with share portfolios above the threshold in countries that are favoured by the current tax rules will be affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe proposed changes to the taxation of investment in offshore shares have a clear policy basis. If people live in New Zealand they are expected to contribute to New Zealand by paying tax here on their income, wherever it comes from. That principle should apply to all, regardless of the country they invest into. Investments in Australian resident listed companies will continue to be taxed as at present, which is mainly on dividends because they pay out a high proportion of their earnings as dividends\u2014that being encouraged by both the Australian and the New Zealand tax systems. There is also the factor of the closer economic relationship between Australia and New Zealand, as well as the move towards a single market for the purposes of investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ERecent weeks have seen a lot of misinformation about the proposed changes being directed at people who hold overseas shares, resulting in a lot of ill-founded concern on the part of people who in many cases will not be adversely affected by the changes in the bill. To allay that concern I announced last week that I would bring an amendment to this bill that would grant a 5-year holiday from the new rules for overseas portfolio investments and shares in certain types of widely held foreign companies that have a substantial New Zealand shareholder base. That holiday is intended to give those companies time to consider shifting their headquarters to New Zealand, which would bring considerable benefits to New Zealand, and time for the Government to complete its review of the controlled foreign company rules. The amendment will be effected by a Supplementary Order Paper to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe reform of the tax rules is very complex because it deals with a very wide and complex area of investment activity that historically has been covered by complex tax rules. For this reason I ask members to consider the proposed reform in its entirety, keeping in mind that it is aimed at achieving a coherent and balanced tax treatment of New Zealanders\u2019 investment income. These new rules have been developed after a lengthy consultation process, from the release of the discussion document nearly a year ago, and the over 800 submissions it attracted, through to more consultation earlier this year before decisions were made. The Finance and Expenditure Committee will now have the opportunity to hear evidence on the proposals and to recommend any changes it considers appropriate, and I will await its deliberations with interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes important amendments to the tax rules in several other areas. It introduces changes to ensure that employer superannuation contributions are taxed at about the right marginal tax rate for individual employees. These changes are designed to minimise the potential for taxpayers to use excessive salary sacrifice as a means of paying less tax. That practice involves reducing salary heavily, in exchange for corresponding increases in employer superannuation contributions, to take advantage of lower tax rates. Although the Government obviously wants to encourage people to save for retirement, excessive salary sacrifice merely to reduce income tax is unfair and against the policy intent of the law, which is to ensure fair taxation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill also introduces changes to the foreign investment fund rules that will resolve tax compliance problems for people in New Zealand who have interests in Australian superannuation schemes. The changes will also remove disincentives for skilled people who have an interest in an Australian superannuation scheme to come to work in New Zealand on a long-term basis. The bill makes changes to the tax treatment of expenditure on geothermal wells, to remove uncertainty about the deductibility of capital losses arising from failed wells drilled in New Zealand. It will allow vendors of patent rights to spread income from sales evenly over 3 years, thus alleviating potential cash-flow problems that could constitute a barrier to investment in research and technology. A further change will assist the Inland Revenue Department in its investigation of tax evasion and avoidance schemes by allowing the department to remove documents for inspection. Finally, the bill sets the income tax rates to apply for the 2006-07 tax year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThese are some of the many changes introduced in this omnibus bill. They and the other proposed changes are described in detail in the separate commentary that has already been distributed to members of the House. I commend the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00221f2d1579cb10458b81f1033a6ac9ab03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f2d1579cb10458b81f1033a6ac9ab03\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking to the first reading of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, I have to say that it is typical Michael Cullen \u2013 Labour legislation. Sure, it eases the tax burden a bit in some areas, but then it clobbers in others. This Minister of Finance clearly cannot bear to give up much revenue. We all know, of course, that Dr Cullen thinks he knows far better than the New Zealand people how to spend their money. That is what gets right up the nose of middle-income New Zealanders about this Minister of Finance\u2014he thinks he knows so much better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EClearly, the bill does ease the tax burden for some. The tax position of those who invest through collective investment vehicles is improved by this bill. But those it clobbers are often those who have been prudent savers, have saved a bit of a nest egg, and have invested with a diversified investment portfolio, including direct investment in shares not just in New Zealand but in other countries with sound economies. That is the kind of investment that most advisers, including those on the Government\u2019s own superannuation fund, would say is prudent and wise investment, yet this legislation will clobber those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ESure, there are winners with this bill. Those investors in what are now called portfolio investment entities\u2014or \u201CPIEs\u201D, as this legislation calls them\u2014will not be taxed on capital gains where they have invested in companies in New Zealand and Australia. Capital gains on those companies will not be taxed in this bill. Clearly, those investors will be winners, as will individual investors in portfolio investment entities, who will be taxed at the lower personal rate if they are lower-income earners. Those measures are both pluses, and National does not oppose them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIn fact, I guess we recognise that Dr Cullen has to introduce them, for his KiwiSaver proposal to work at all. Even if it were not for KiwiSaver sitting on the horizon, the measures not to tax New Zealanders\u2019 capital gains on investments in collective investment entities in Australia and New Zealand, and to tax individual investors on their individual tax rates, make sense. But the problem is that the Government did not have to boot around other investors to make those changes. It could have made those rational changes without actually booting around prudent savers with direct foreign investment in shares in other sound economies around the world. The Government could have introduced these \u201CPIE rules\u201D, as they are called, yet kept the \u201Cgrey list\u201D countries. But, no, Dr Cullen wanted the revenue so he is just going to sock the rich a bit more and try to grab a bit more money off them. So everyone with more than $50,000 invested in shares in those \u201Cgrey list\u201D countries of the UK, the United States, Canada, Germany, Japan, Norway, or Spain will now have to pay tax on capital gains, whether or not they are realised, from 1 April next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe problem is that it is not just the rich that Dr Cullen is socking. If we look at what our Retirement Commissioner is saying on her website\u2014I think it is the Sorted website\u2014about the kinds of savings people need for their retirement, we see that someone earning less than $60,000 in New Zealand should, according to the Retirement Commissioner, have saved over $200,000 for their retirement. That is way above the $50,000 threshold that Dr Cullen is allowing for investors with this legislation before they get clobbered by a capital gains tax. Middle-income earners in New Zealand who are trying to save the kind of nest egg that the Retirement Commissioner says they should have for a secure retirement will be clobbered by this capital gains tax for daring to invest prudently, sensibly, and wisely in a range of economies around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWe have to ask ourselves why this Labour Government is hitting those sensible, middle-income, wise New Zealanders who are trying to save for their retirement. Dr Cullen says they are far too rich\u2014he will make them pay a capital gains tax on unrealised capital gain, something that will hit a lot of retired folk very hard. Fifty-thousand dollars is not a lot of money to have saved. For anyone trying to have a better retirement, $50,000 saved and invested prudently around the world is not a lot of money. Yet Labour members, and, it seems, Peter Dunne, think such people are wealthy and will clobber them for daring to invest prudently around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that even investment advisers are saying that this is very unwise legislation. The general manager of Equity Investment Advisers and Sharebrokers Ltd, John Commins, said yesterday that prudent investors who have saved for their retirement and diversified their risk by investing offshore will be penalised. It is a shame that Dr Cullen thinks those kinds of investors should be taxed more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ENational opposes this legislation for that reason, despite the fact that we support some of the measures around collective investment vehicles. We are supportive of the portfolio investment entities not being taxed on capital gains. We are supportive of the fact that lower-income investors can be taxed at their personal rates of income tax on investment in collective funds. But why will the Government clobber other wise investors at the same time as it is doing that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E Labour knows it is on shaky ground, because when this proposal was first put forward it was going to include investment in Australia in the capital gains tax. What happened is that the Government backed down on that one. Peter Dunne acknowledges it backed down on that. Of course, what happened then is that 28,000 shareholders in the Guinness Peat Group here in New Zealand said it was outrageous that they were going to be clobbered with a capital gains tax through investing in that company. What did Mr Cullen do? He backed down again and gave a 5-year exemption from the policy for those New Zealanders who have shares in the Guinness Peat Group. I do not say he was wrong to change the policy, but he should have changed it for everyone. Why did he just change the policy for investors in the Guinness Peat Group? I see Peter Dunne smiling. What or who twisted Dr Cullen\u2019s arm on this? Was it all the emails the Prime Minister was getting? Was it one of the coalition members? Was it Winston Peters, who said to Dr Cullen that his support depended on that change being made? I would say there was a fair bit of murkiness in the background, because it is not a rational policy change to exempt just a selected group of shareholders. Dr Cullen should have allowed all the shareholders to be exempt from this change, because it is bad policy. It is anti-savings, and anti - prudent, diversified investment. In fact, it will probably strengthen the current bias in our investment towards property in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI note that Dr Cullen is about to speak next, and I will finish by saying this to him. This bill confirms the tax rates for this coming year. If he thinks a Government that is taking 92c in every dollar from the income earned by a woman who is looking after three children as she tries to get off the domestic purposes benefit is a Government that shows concern for people on a low income\u2014one could almost say people in a poverty situation\u2014then he disgusts me. He gave away hundreds of millions in his Budget to buy votes from higher - income earning New Zealanders\u2014with up to $140,000 of income\u2014and he crapped on those low-income people. He did not give them one cent of tax relief. For him to stand in this House a few minutes ago and claim he was doing a lot for people in poverty was outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00225a516cf3535745069571bcbd66d8bb74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a516cf3535745069571bcbd66d8bb74\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Goodness me! Of course, the National Party policy was to lower that 92 percent rate to 90 percent, but also to take away the $10 a week of family support payments per child that were due on 1 April next year. So the vast majority of low-income families would have been significantly worse off under that proposal. It is good to hear the National Party oppose the first major tax cut of the new tax year. No doubt we will hear more about that as time goes on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe reform to the taxation of share investment income and offshore income, as proposed in the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, will introduce a much fairer set of rules for the taxing of income in New Zealand and offshore. As the Hon Peter Dunne said, the current rules are inconsistent, distortionary, out of date, and do not meet the purposes for which they were first introduced. They favour investment overseas into companies in eight countries over investment in companies in all other countries in the world, including the countries that are most rapidly growing at the present time and are likely to be the most rapidly growing over the next generation or so. They favour investment in companies in those eight countries over investment in companies in New Zealand, which does not make a great deal of sense. They favour direct investment by individuals over investment through managed funds, when most modest-income people save through managed funds rather than by individual investment. They discriminate even further when investing through funds, by favouring high-income investors over lower-income investors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe reforms proposed in this bill take the system back towards achieving a reasonable balance between a very wide range of competing interests. The bill seeks a reasonable balance between those people who are at a disadvantage under the current rules and those who are favoured, often unintentionally, by the current rules. It was never the intention of the current rules that people would avoid paying income tax on their offshore income entirely, or almost entirely. It was assumed they would be taxed in the \u201Cgrey list\u201D countries; that is why the \u201Cgrey list\u201D was introduced. It was considered there was no need to tax in New Zealand, and that paying tax in the \u201Cgrey list\u2019 countries was easier than trying to offset the tax paid offshore against tax due in New Zealand. In practice, people have found offshore non-taxable vehicles, which, in effect, means they have found a way of avoiding tax entirely on their investment income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe will therefore line up all those various elements. It will cost the Government something like $120 million a year in annual revenue loss to achieve that line-up. Overall, it represents a very significant tax cut for New Zealanders who invest here and overseas, and on New Zealanders\u2019 investment income, which, sadly, one sees is not large when one looks at the total level of New Zealanders\u2019 investment income. I understand that in managed funds the total average balance at maturity is something like $30,000. Most of the tax cut will come from tax forgone on investments while in managed funds. Overall, the offshore investment tax changes for all investors are approximately revenue neutral. Many of the winners will be the thousands of ordinary people who save through managed funds. Hundreds of thousands of people already invest through such funds, but that number is expected to increase significantly with the introduction of KiwiSaver, especially with regard to low and middle income savers who may not have access to a work-based savings scheme at the present time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe reform of the tax laws is therefore crucial to developing a better savings culture\u2014one that encourages people to start saving early in their working life for their retirement years. Many people tend to do nothing apart from paying off the house, leaving it far too late and far too close to their retirement before they try to save in addition for that. By then it is too late to accumulate any significant total capital. Now, it is too easy not to save. KiwiSaver will change that by introducing, effectively, an opt-out system rather than an opt-in system. With deductions at work by way of the employer, with the Inland Revenue Department managing much of the compliance costs and handling very small balances in order to remove those costs from the managed funds, and with the upfront and additional incentive in relation to saving for a house, the Government anticipates there will be a reasonably significant take-up of KiwiSaver. Indeed, the main objection now is that KiwiSaver should be augmented or turned into a compulsory savings scheme. But I note that New Zealand businesses do not want to contribute to a scheme like the one that operates in Australia, where businesses, rather than the individual employee, pay for the compulsory savings scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe anticipate a lot more people will invest through managed funds, so it is important to remove the tax disadvantages that face people who save through those vehicles. One of the most obvious disadvantages is that there is a flat tax rate of 33 percent on the earnings in the fund, which overtaxes all those people who earn under $38,000 a year and whose marginal tax rate is 15c or 21c in the dollar. That overtaxation will cease under the proposed rules, and lower-income investors through funds that elect to be portfolio investment entities will be taxed at their correct rate. In order to ensure that there is no incentive for funds not to opt in, that taxation will be capped at 33 percent, so that there is no incentive to try to create separate vehicles for 39 percent taxpayers, or, indeed, not to have such vehicles at all. Those funds will no longer be taxed on their share gains from New Zealand and Australian companies. That is why the bill is timed to come into effect at the same time as KiwiSaver does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThat is one half of the job. The other half removes the tax advantages\u2014we should be clear about this\u2014enjoyed by some individuals who have offshore portfolio share investments, and ensures that direct investment is not tax favoured over investment through funds. In the past the National Party used to subscribe to the notion that taxation reform was not always just a matter of cutting taxes but also a matter of fairness and equity, and of achieving an appropriate balance around the taxation area. Now the National Party basically says in this House that it supports the continuation of tax avoidance schemes. It says it believes that it is perfectly right and proper that people should invest in tax avoidance entities offshore and avoid the taxes they would pay if they invested in entities within New Zealand, either directly or through managed funds. I do not know how National Party members can keep a straight face when they get up in this House and argue that, particularly when\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230e7c21841e24a9a9d385f8e0b823955\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: They try, do they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f904dcb95cd44c70a91537be15cb5e23\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: They try. Well, they put up Dr Lockwood Smith, who does not really try to keep a straight face, to be fair. But there is even a de minimis level of $50,000, so that those with smaller accumulated savings will not be affected by this measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe largest single group thus affected, investors in Guinness Peat Group, will be exempt for a period of 5 years, to allow that group to rearrange its affairs before registering in New Zealand. I have to say, very gently, that Mr Gibbs was always unable to answer the very simple question of why Guinness Peat Group could not incorporate within New Zealand but had to stay incorporated within the United Kingdom\u2014a very simple mechanism to avoid the consequences of these taxation changes. It has something to do with the tax loss companies held in the UK\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224725c1af8ff8434ba8aa346778405252\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ca52e50db1d4140b063c32c149b2a84\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have not been told. It has something to do with the tax loss companies held by Guinness Peat Group in the UK, which can be offset only against UK taxation, not against New Zealand taxation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe uneven operation of the current regime\u2014the disadvantaging of some and advantaging of others\u2014has to be addressed, in some form or another. It has always been an extremely difficult public policy issue. Many suggestions have been made, over the last 2 or 3 years, about the best way to do so. This is the best set of compromises, I believe, that we are capable of coming up with, moving forward into the future. In particular, it is very important to send the signal, given where we are in the world, that the New Zealand Government no longer says it prefers New Zealanders to invest offshore in the older, lower-growth countries\u2014such as the UK, Germany, and so on\u2014and not in the new, more rapidly developing countries in Asia and elsewhere, with which we will have growing economic links in the future. It is hard to say we are part of that developing world of economic growth if we then have a taxation system that discriminates against someone who invests there rather than, if you like, in the old world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThese reforms are complex. This is a complex bill, in most of its parts. The bill also has other matters in it that will be welcomed by a wide range of business interest groups. Those matters address particular issues, like geothermal exploration, for example. I am sure the Finance and Expenditure Committee will want to consider the bill very carefully. I have no doubt it will suggest some changes. I have never seen a tax bill that provides for a complex structural change to come back to the House without being altered, in some form or another. I look forward to the bill returning to the House, and I look forward to New Zealand having a fairer system that, in particular, does not overtax low to middle income earners on their savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00229486af9b742a468a86efaff8fa618900\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229486af9b742a468a86efaff8fa618900\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Dr Cullen made at least one mistake in his speech when he said a number of solutions to those problems had been proposed in the last 2 or 3 years. In fact, Parliament has been wrestling with some of these issues for at least 10 years. This bill has come forward as part of the Government\u2019s confidence motion around the Budget; therefore it must have the support of New Zealand First. I am pleased that party has become more thoughtful than it was last time, in 1998, when it was got at by the savings industry, which opposed proposals put forward then to deal with the overtaxation of lower-income earners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266028f3f050b44a290b207654c0a5db0\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: TOLIS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f51386fc15d14b46b05964995a1daa1f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That was the name of one proposal\u2014Taxation of Life Insurance and Superannuation Fund Savings. In fact, the savings industry became really wound up about it, and Winston Peters, at the last moment, pulled the plug on that legislation. Fortunately, he is now out of the country and not in a position to pull the plug on this legislation; or it could just be that he is not getting the same support from the savings industry that he used to get, so he is not taking any notice of what it says any more. I hope he is not listening to the Guinness Peat Group instead\u2014I will come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe savings industry\u2019s problem, at that time, was compliance costs. In fact, the real problem was a whole generation of bad savings products, which were too complicated, lacking in transparency, and ripping off savers with fees that could not be justified if they were ever found out. I am pleased that that industry has become slightly more mature in its approach and more understanding that the needs of customers are more important than its need to hide the ridiculously high fees it has charged for shonky products for a whole generation. That has been one of the problems with savings in New Zealand. Everyone can remember the magic graphs that insurance salesmen used to have, whereby one would put in money for 5 years, and could get back what had been put in at the end of those 5 years\u2014there was something called a \u201Csurrender value\u201D. Those days, fortunately, have come to an end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI hope someone will get up and explain the decision about the Guinness Peat Group, because although the savings industry in general has accepted this bill, that group did not. It is absolutely remarkable that a Minister of Finance would oversee a decision-making process in which the shareholders in one company get a 5-year holiday. I am sure the Finance and Expenditure Committee will be interested in the logic behind that decision. Occasionally, one-off decisions are made about taxation. I can recall providing, during a brief but glorious stint as Minister of Revenue\u2014which no one else can remember except me\u2014the taxation underwriting for The Lord of the Rings. A specific exemption was given, which meant the taxpayer underwrote it to the extent of $300 million. Of course, the gracious Helen Clark has claimed all the credit for that, although she had nothing to do with it\u2014nothing whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bbd40d7e0244224ae96230134ce157f\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s good!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f01bf02be2848b7ba9e80330def586b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. So a one-off decision is not unusual. That decision was transparent and the reasons why it had happened were explained in the House. I want the Minister, or one of his little followers, to get up and tell us what is behind the Guinness Peat Group decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI do not want to question the integrity of these particular Ministers, because I think they are straight. But this is a context whereby the Minister of Communications is trading political favours with Vodafone, a large multinational that he has the responsibility of regulating. He asked the company a political favour when he was right in the middle of making decisions that could cost it millions of dollars, and it does him the favour. Now, of course, he is obliged to look as though he is not returning the favour, which effectively makes the decision. The decision is made; the decisions will go against Vodafone on mobile termination rates, because it now absolutely has to or the Minister will be guilty of corruption. It is about as simple as that. In that environment the Guinness Peat Group decision needs to be explained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI take Dr Cullen\u2019s point that the select committee will look at the balance of compromises in this bill\u2014because it does contain a balance of compromises. National certainly supports the idea that people with a marginal tax rate of 19c on their earned income should not be taxed at 33c on their savings income. That has long been an anomaly and, for all the reasons Dr Cullen gave, it is a bad thing. The question, though, is whether the compromises are correctly balanced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis is where we come to the issue of the abolition of the \u201Cgrey list\u201D and Dr Cullen trying to dress up that revenue grab as some venture into the new world of the Indian stock exchange, and that we are all hanging out to invest in these fast-developing countries. Some New Zealanders are, and some will, because they have a different risk premium from the average. But I think that is a pretty feeble excuse for trying to find the money to balance up what he gives away, with moving to a fairer regime for some taxpayers. I hope the select committee will look into whether that balance is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe other issue is the threshold around the $50,000. As my colleague pointed out, if one goes to the Retirement Commissioner\u2019s website, one will find that $50,000 worth of savings does not represent a significant income, at all. The fact that half of New Zealanders over 65 have nothing like that level of savings is a tragedy and a shame, for them and for the country. But that threshold may well be far too low. We may well find that quite large numbers of New Zealanders on middle to average incomes\u2014maybe even on high incomes\u2014have most of their savings tied up in their houses and only a relatively small amount in cash savings that can go into these kinds of investment vehicles, and that that threshold may be far too low. National, of course, is opposed to capital gains taxes. Knowing that the Government will pass this bill because new Zealand First has finally grown up and taken legislation seriously, our members on the select committee will almost certainly argue for a much higher threshold, if we cannot get rid of the capital gains tax altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThere is another matter covered by this bill that should not go without remark, even though the whole Budget debate has focused on it. It is that the bill confirms the tax rates for this next year. I want to draw attention to an issue my colleague John Key brought up in the House yesterday: Dr Cullen\u2019s unwillingness to be honest with New Zealanders about his intentions for personal tax rates. In 2005 he made a decision at the urging of United Future, which used its leverage\u2014for once, usefully\u2014to index income tax thresholds. Then, after the election, Dr Cullen gave the impression he would have to give that away because the Government had abolished the carbon tax, which I see in the Budget is about $360 million. That is quite a chunk of money. Then I picked up the Fiscal Strategy Report of the Budget and saw on page 44 that the Government\u2019s decision to index income tax thresholds will stop wage earners from rising up through the income tax rates. It states in the Budget that the Government has made a decision to index income tax thresholds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut Dr Cullen will not say whether the Fiscal Strategy Report is wrong and that the Government has not made a decision, or, in fact, that it has made a decision. It is in the forecast\u2014one can put anything one likes in the forecast\u2014but the Budget states that the Government has decided. So why can he not just go out and say that, yes, he is raising thresholds and that that is a tax cut he can afford to give? Well, he cannot say that, and the reason he cannot say it is that he spends all of his time in the House saying we cannot afford tax cuts. So which is true? How come New Zealand\u2019s Minister of Finance cannot publicly repeat a statement in a Budget document that he signed himself? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThat is why the House, particularly the Opposition, notes with regret that this bill will confirm the tax rates. Of course, Dr Cullen could afford to index the income tax thresholds this year; he could have afforded to do it last year. He could have afforded quite significant tax cuts, even if they were not as big as National\u2019s. That is what should be in here, because that would lower the marginal tax rates of a whole lot of New Zealanders. The National Party\u2019s package had 80 percent of New Zealand taxpayers on a marginal tax rate of 19.5c. Well, that is Asian; that is really getting competitive. That is really giving people the incentive to get ahead. But, unfortunately, this bill passes up the opportunity to make some real change in tax thresholds, and the opportunity to introduce even Dr Cullen\u2019s \u201Cchewing gum\u201D tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ce608326fc4bf2afe811a846060a8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ce608326fc4bf2afe811a846060a8c\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E As expected by the National Party, New Zealand First will be supporting this bill going to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and, as a member of that committee, I look forward with intense interest to delving into some of the questions raised by the members who have spoken before me. I am sure, with the collegial atmosphere that exists in that committee, we will give it what I colloquially call \u201Ca going over\u201D to see what is behind it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E New Zealand First favours investment, we favour savings, and, more especially, given that we are not a high-wage economy, we favour investment made by those on relatively low wages. Again, as has been pointed out by previous speakers, we have a situation of what I still like to call managed funds, which is the easiest investment vehicle that people who do not have a huge knowledge of investment, and who would not regard themselves as experts, tend to choose to invest their hard-won dollars in. It has been most unfair for people on relatively modest wages and on a relatively low tax scale to have their investments taxed at a flat rate of 33 percent. I think that all parties agree that that situation is iniquitous and it has to be changed. At long last this bill will change it, and we in New Zealand First certainly applaud doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EWe then get into the business of having some interesting sorts of developments that have arisen historically amongst countries that trade in a like nature to New Zealand. They are countries that have tax regimes and economies similar to ours and are considered to be so-called friendly countries, if I can use that term. Those countries are encompassed in the \u201Cgrey list\u201D. We have heard technical explanations of the \u201Cgrey list\u201D from people far more qualified than I am to speak about it, but suffice it to say that some of those countries, and some of the firms investing in those countries, were paying very little tax, or no tax, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003ESo it is interesting, when we hear people talk about private enterprise, free competition, and so on and so forth, to see that we have had a dual standard in existence in New Zealand. We have had investment for the masses, if you like, in managed funds that are taxed at 33 percent\u2014way above those people\u2019s personal income tax rate\u2014and we have had other investments through companies that invested in those overseas \u201Cgrey list\u201D countries that have been taxed at a very much lower rate or\u2014as we are now finding out\u2014paying no tax at all. I, for one, will be interested as a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, which will examine this bill, to see not only what has been going on but also to see how that situation can be put right for the future, and we will certainly do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EThe exemption for Guinness Peat Group is an interesting one. I offer the explanation that was put to me, which is that it was not a conspiracy, and there was nothing hidden under the bed that I could work out. But we had an iconic company in New Zealand that was invested in by thousands of New Zealand mums and dads who followed a man called Ron Brierley and who have, in many cases, turned very modest investments into substantial ones. As that company moved offshore, so did those people with their investments, because they had no choice, other than to pull out. That company subsequently morphed into something called \u201CGPG\u201D or Guinness Peat Group\u2014is that the correct terminology?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f3a115cd074c718ae3d10037899d2e\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty times the original investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9a3ebe54df4fa9b5029847289aa97a\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: So they have had the advantage of that investment. I agree with the two Ministers who have said that the fuss and bother that accompanied that move, and the excellent public relations of that company, have upset a lot of people who invested in a company in New Zealand. That company has now moved offshore, and those people are being caught out and will be disadvantaged. We will discuss in the select committee whether members agree with that view and what we should do about it, but I think that pragmatism has reigned with this bill, from what I have seen of it. The Ministers have said that the Government will look at having a 5-year exemption. I have heard it called a holiday, but there will be a 5-year time period in which the directors of that company may make a decision as to whether they want to bring the company back onshore, and go along with the rest of the investment regime in this country, or leave the company registered in foreign climes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI noticed in the latest Independent that the chief executive officer of that company has said that that move is great, but he is not happy with the situation. He wants to push harder, further, higher, and all of the rest of it\u2014and, knowing his reputation, with all due respect I would not expect him to do otherwise. That is exactly what I would expect him to do. But the company has a period of time in which to tidy up that matter and put the company into New Zealand ownership, if the directors so wish. I say quite clearly it is my understanding that that matter will not be determined by virtue of either Mr Brierley or Mr Gibbs; it will be determined more by virtue of the mum and dad shareholders\u2014if we can use that term\u2014in the Guinness Peat Group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EHowever, that is the situation. We will look at all these issues, and we will indeed ask questions around that matter and around many of the other aspects of the bill. I heard some members say that this bill is another tax grab or some other iniquitous imposition on people that the Government is making, but the facts as we know them at this point are that this move will cost the State $110 million net\u2014that is the figure the Government mentioned\u2014so it can hardly be called a grab made by the Inland Revenue Department from investors at this point. We will see how that pans out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI want to talk for a moment about the investment regime for New Zealanders. As our name suggests, New Zealand First believes that a country that does not promote itself, either to other countries around the world or to its own citizens, is a country that is not proud of itself, not confident about its future, and it should take a good look at itself. I am pleased to hear that the two Ministers who have spoken so far are talking in that vein. They are talking about sending a message to New Zealanders. We want them to invest in our own country. We want them to be proud of the country. We can make good returns for them in our country, and, most important, we can use the money\u2014the savings that they have\u2014beneficially for the businesses in this country. There is no need for us to be making people in foreign countries wealthier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI look forward to debating the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill in the select committee. I am sure that committee will come back in due course with a very sensible decision made across all parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3b390c461514d9187d24c9cf6715f0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3b390c461514d9187d24c9cf6715f0f\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E There are some very positive measures in the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill that the Greens support. There is also a huge missed opportunity to make the tax system broader-based, fairer, and less of a layer upon layer of amendments to remedy anomalies\u2014which has left us, frankly, with a bit of a dog\u2019s breakfast of a tax system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Greens strongly support the look-through rule for New Zealand - managed funds, which will now be taxed at the personal rate of the investor. One could not think of a bigger disincentive for people to save than if those people earn less than $38,000, and their savings are taxed at the same rate as those of people who earn a lot more than that. If KiwiSaver is to prosper, that amendment is essential, and for that reason alone the Greens will support this bill going to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. But we hope the select committee process might bite the bullet and look much more broadly at the opportunity the bill presents to fix the tax system further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe also support the removal of the anomaly whereby overseas investments have been taxed inconsistently, depending on whether they are funds, or investments by individuals. That inconsistency has been remedied. There is no reason why investments by individuals should be taxed differently from investments of those who put their money into a managed fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe also support the move to remove the incentive for people to take a considerable amount of their salary as a superannuation contribution, just to avoid tax. Tax law that creates incentives to make moves that one would otherwise not make, just to avoid tax, is bad law, and getting rid of that anomaly is a good thing. We support the removal of discrimination against investing in New Zealand. It was certainly an anomaly that one would be taxed at a higher rate if one invested in New Zealand rather than overseas\u2014so far so good. But in removing some anomalies the bill creates some others, because it is yet another add-on to a tax system that actually needs a more thorough overhaul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ELet us look for a moment at what a tax system should do; I believe there are three things. Firstly, it needs to raise enough revenue to meet the Government\u2019s needs for expenditure. That is a question of how much one taxes, and there will always be political differences around that question. Secondly, it needs to be fair, and that is a question of who is taxed and at what rate, and there will always be political differences around that question. But, thirdly, a tax system must not set perverse incentives to do the wrong thing in order to avoid paying tax. I would have thought there might be some measure of agreement around the House that we do not want a tax system that sets perverse incentives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Greens have argued for a long time that we need to broaden the tax base so that we pay less income tax and raise revenue in other ways. We need to start taxing the \u201Cbads\u201D in society instead of just the \u201Cgoods\u201D, so we should tax income, hard work, and enterprise less, and we should tax pollution and waste more. We propose a system of ecological tax reform that would take off tax on the first $5,000 of everybody\u2019s income, which means every taxpayer would get the same rebate; and, instead, tax things such as carbon, toxic materials, and waste to landfill\u2014the environmental \u201Cbads\u201D that we are trying to have less of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EAs part of that broadening of the tax base, we have always questioned why earned income pays tax and unearned income does not. That seems to us to be a serious anomaly that the bill fiddles with but does not really address. We have always proposed that there should be a proper investigation of whether unearned capital gains, which are taken as income, should be taxed in the same way that wages and salaries should be. Support for this position arrived in the weekend from a rather unexpected source. I want to quote from a column by Mary Holm, who is the financial adviser in the money section of the Weekend Herald. She has written a very sensible article. Her column states: \u201CThe heart of the problem, it seems to me, is that the officials are proposing changes within an already flawed tax system. They will remove some flaws but inevitably create others.\u201D The article goes on to state: \u201CWhy shouldn\u2019t capital gains be taxed? Arguably, the gains that people are lucky or skilful enough to make merely by holding an appreciating asset should, in fact, be hit harder than the wages people make by working. What we need is an inflation-adjusted tax on all capital gains, much the same as income tax.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E The article later states: \u201COther taxes could be cut and many people would end up paying lower total taxes.\u201D Mary Holm points to some other benefits: \u201CAnd while accountants and lawyers would get less tax work,\u201D\u2014because this would be a very simple system\u2014\u201Cwe would free up some bright people to help solve other problems.\u201D Surely we need our bright people doing more in life than just finding tax loopholes for people with a lot of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party position is not, at this stage, a final policy on capital gains tax, because to finalise such a policy would involve a lot of work that the resources of six MPs cannot do. We need a Government department to do a proper investigation of what that would involve. We note we are almost the only OECD country that does not tax capital gains on a broad basis\u2014Australia, the United States, and most of the OECD do so. Therefore, to do so would not, at first sight, bring about the end of Western civilisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes a capital gains tax on gains from overseas shares, but not a capital gains tax on New Zealand shares or property. That tends to fuel the rise in house prices from investment housing property, which makes it very hard for Kiwis to buy their first homes. So a number of social implications come from this legislation, as well. There are some very major issues to crunch here; for example, should capital gains tax apply to the family home? We think it should not, but it certainly should apply to the rest of the property market\u2014that needs investigation. Should the tax be on the realised value or the unrealised value of capital gains? To what extent should that tax be inflation-adjusted, and how exactly would that be done? This is the time that those issues could be crunched.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI go back to Mary Holm\u2019s column, which quotes Brian Fallow\u2019s article in the \u201CBusiness Herald\u201D the other day: \u201Ca capital gains tax \u2018is a politically poisonous proposition. At the height of the mid-1990s boom, then (Reserve Bank) Governor Don Brash\u2019 \u201D\u2014and I recommend that Dr Brash\u2019s colleagues look at this article\u2014\u201C \u2018suggested a capital gains tax on investment property, but the MPs on the finance and expenditure select committee shrank back from their seats as if he was offering them plutonium lollipops.\u2019 \u201D We know this is a politically dangerous area that MPs will not go near, but, in fact, we have gone near it. The tax exists now on some capital gains but not on others. That is an unfair anomaly. We are all paying more income tax because the gains we make from unearned capital gains are not taxed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThis is the time when we could crunch those issues. Dr Cullen has a whole department of capable people to do that for him. We will continue to argue that that work should take place before this bill is finally passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u00223f87354ee2da487f9d287bd7167058cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f87354ee2da487f9d287bd7167058cb\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Everyone in this House knows the ad on TV where the All Blacks are stranded on the side of the road and looking for a lift. One by one, they get picked up, starting with the forwards in the latest Ford, and working back to Joe Rokocoko, Dougie Howlett, and Rico Gear, who have to ride in a Ford Model T. They all drive off to the song with the lyric: \u201CThat\u2019s my black jersey you\u2019re wearing every time when you run out to play\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMembers of the M\u0101ori Party know that every time we come into this House, with every bill we analyse, every word we speak, and every position we take, we carry with us the pride of the kaupapa we wear, which is the pride of being M\u0101ori, the passion in being M\u0101ori, and the priorities of being M\u0101ori. Every time we front up, we know we must do our utmost to defend M\u0101ori rights and advance M\u0101ori interests for the benefit of this nation, because our people expect it of us, in exactly the same way that our whole nation has expectations of our rugby team. It is a kaupapa we wear with enormous respect. Our responsibility to that brand\u2014the M\u0101ori brand\u2014also requires that we commit to analysing and taking a position on every bill that comes before the House, including strange ones like this Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215da596fb86d4b6fbc72da9e1c044343\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Big words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cd087ef7f4846c381dfd233c73f91ad\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they are big words. This bill states that for a mere $110 million a year, the Government can foster a savings culture and resolve investment issues. So how will that affect M\u0101ori? There will be a small elite group of the kinds of people Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s recycled funding is catering to who may benefit from increases in asset values. That is cool. Some people will get an opportunity to improve their position through savings investments, and those lucky enough to have investments in shares might not have to pay tax. That is great. But the fan base this Parliament is responsible for includes people who come from all walks of life, and most of them simply do not fit this bill\u2019s intentions, at all. That group of people, which includes M\u0101ori, consists of nearly two million people who get less than $25,000 a year. That is right; there are nearly two million such people who, between them, contribute $3.5 billion in tax\u2014the taxes that allow the Minister of Finance to announce a $9 billion surplus in the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThat group also includes the other half of the population, who are the taxpayers who bring the average income up to $38,000, and that includes all the MPs in this House. But the difference is that one half of the population has the means to benefit from these asset value increases, and the other half does not. In this game of two halves, it is clear to see that the lower half\u2014those in the low-income bracket\u2014are not being looked after properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EBeneficiary families are doubly disadvantaged under the Working for Families package, in particular, for a couple of reasons. First, beneficiaries are not allowed to get anything from this package, and, second, 230,000 children also dip out. Although the Government thinks it is clever to reward workers and try to force those not in work to go to work, it has miscalculated badly by denying the kids, who have no say in the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is also aware of the huge difference in income that exists between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101, as noted in the report of the United Nations special rapporteur. We also note that M\u0101ori earn $4 an hour less than non-M\u0101ori. The 2001 census also states that the average M\u0101ori income was $15,000, compared with $20,000 for the average P\u0101keh\u0101 income. That is the financial background to our current status as tangata whenua in our own land. That is the environment we live in. And then, in an environment where M\u0101ori statistics are high in all the wrong places, and where targeted funding is the best way to achieve changes in those statistics, we have a Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs who, in the Budget round, chose not even to bid for any new money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt is well-nigh impossible to contemplate that in an environment with appalling health statistics for M\u0101ori, horrendous arrest, conviction, and prison statistics for M\u0101ori, poor education statistics for M\u0101ori, and the unacceptable mortality rate for M\u0101ori, the Minister simply did not see the need for new money to address the very real needs of his own people. Yet, not only did the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs not bid for new money\u2014and he was roundly congratulated on his frugality by his Government not giving him any new money\u2014but he even allowed one of his flagship programmes, manaaki tauira, to be dumped. Such is the environment in which M\u0101ori are forced to live\u2014an environment where their own Minister refuses to come to their assistance when they are suffering from the classic symptoms of economic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EEconomic violence is when people are denied access to resources and power, and when their dignity and even their existence are under threat. We see the results of economic violence in poverty, debt, bad credit, having the power and phone cut off because bills are not paid, not being able to get a fresh start, and anger and frustration at not having enough money for gas, doctors\u2019 bills, food, and clothes. Economic violence makes people feel less than human, leads to social conflict, and limits people\u2019s potential. Economic violence breeds chronic poverty across generations. It makes sick people worse, and it increases the gaps that this Government no longer has any interest in closing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThat is the environment in which we come to the House today to talk about a savings culture\u2014so let us cut to the chase. The chance to invest in Australia without penalty is OK, but it ain\u2019t a big deal. What is a big deal for the M\u0101ori Party, though, is how we measure the real wealth of this nation\u2014how a particular bill will affect us as a people, what a bill will mean for our mokopuna, and how it will affect everyone else in Aotearoa. What is the plan? We look at every bill to see how it affects our well-being, not just our wallets. Will it reduce inequality? Will it help get rid of child poverty? Will it make us a better nation? We ask how an economy can be healthy if its growth is based and measured on constantly using up limited resources. How can building a jail be called capital investment when its sole purpose is to isolate people from reality and punish them, and then increase society\u2019s problems when they get out of jail? That is how GDP is measured. In fact, GDP can grow even when poverty is getting worse, which is probably why the Government shies away from developing a standard by which we can measure poverty. The M\u0101ori Party is proposing a new way of keeping our national accounts by measuring the quality of our society. It is called the genuine progress index, and, if it were adopted, Aotearoa could become a world leader in measuring the true value of a nation\u2019s economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will vote for this taxation bill to go through its first reading, so as to give us all time to think creatively and intelligently about how we could reduce the gap between the haves and have-nots in this nation. Such is the game we all play, and we dare not lose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002260e9b2795e9749b39bd39e79205cc9d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260e9b2795e9749b39bd39e79205cc9d2\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support this further development to regularise our tax laws, in order to ensure that tax anomalies do not drive the investment decisions of New Zealanders, and that the tax professionals will not have the capacity\u2014rapacious, I might say\u2014to derive even more innovative schemes to evade, circumvent, or further complicate the taxation system. I look forward to the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill coming to our Finance and Expenditure Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI follow my whanaunga Hone Harawira, the honourable member for Te Tai Tokerau, but I want to talk about the content of the bill. I am not interested in redefining economics to suit the views of deep ecologists or other far-flung thinkers who are a hangover from the San Francisco flower power movement, in terms of finding the most sophisticated way of measuring the affairs or activities within an economy. We need to bear in mind some key points. Some extraordinarily innovative proposed legislation is being considered by the Finance and Expenditure Committee at the moment. It is designed to grow the number of Kiwis who are saving, and also provide them with an option to move into home ownership. The bill we are debating is related to that intention, and it will ensure that people are not unreasonably penalised for their investment decisions when they are investing in Australasia\u2014that is, Australia and Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI am sure that legions of lawyers and bankers, and a variety of other professionals, are matching their wits and skills against those of the learned officials from the Inland Revenue Department\u2014and one or three from Treasury\u2014so I look forward to that contest. However, I have no doubt that the sovereign powers of the State, as reflected through Parliament, will continue to be vigilant to ensure that those people who are moving into creating a greater sense of worth and long-term security through a savings culture are not penalised by unfair taxation rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIn relation to what the bill is trying to achieve at a deeper level, I remind members that mention was made earlier by the Green Party speaker, Jeanette Fitzsimons, of Mary Holm\u2019s writings\u2014 which were somewhat fanciful and led to all sorts of letters from confused contributors to the New Zealand Herald\u2014about whether we would be better off lessening the burden on income tax and increasing the burden on capital in general. That is a fine philosophical point, but this bill ensures that those who have enjoyed a loophole will have to work on the same playing field and on the same basis as those who live in \u201CStrugglers\u2019 Gully\u201D, who do not have access either to the sophisticated advisers or the disposable wealth needed to be able to enjoy the cleverly \u201Cconspired\u201D and conceived schemes that, in my view, give an unfair advantage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI look forward to hearing what my friends from the National Party have to say about these issues when the bill gets to the select committee. It disappoints me that the most loquacious of the boys from the National Party, Mr Foss\u2014the mokopuna of Granny Smith and a possum in the headlights\u2014is absent, but no doubt he will find great fault with this bill, which is very unwise of him. However, I look forward to the bill coming to the select committee. No doubt there will be a considerable number of submissions\u2014not the least of which will focus on how the Guinness Peat Group has captured its current status\u2014and I look forward to hearing from a variety of other entities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002293143277441745648f5983225ec066a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293143277441745648f5983225ec066a9\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E It is interesting to hear Mr Shane Jones speak of possums caught in headlights. That was a good way to end his speech. In my speech today I will focus on some possums caught in the headlights. I will address Part 1, \u201CAnnual rates of income tax for 2006-07 tax year\u201D, and Part 2, \u201CAmendments to Income Tax Act 2004\u201D, which focuses on offshore investment and shares in collective investment vehicles. But I do not want to pass up the opportunity to have a look at that annual taxation level in Part 1, which is a fairly brief part, I have to say\u2014in fact, so brief that the explanatory note states only: \u201CThe rates that will apply are those in schedule 1 of the Income Tax Act 2004.\u201D In short, it means there is no change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI would like to take a moment to reflect on Michael Cullen\u2019s maiden speech, when looking at this bill. It is interesting to reflect on the goals mentioned in one\u2019s maiden speech. Earlier today he mentioned the word \u201Carrogance\u201D, and in that respect I want to quote from his maiden speech: \u201CI am proud of the fact that my secondary education was not paid for by the taxpayers of New Zealand but by the farmers of Canterbury and Hawke\u2019s Bay. I ripped them off for 5 years then, and I shall get stuck into them again in the next few years,\u201D. I say: \u201CCongratulations, Dr Cullen. You\u2019ve done damn well, in that respect.\u201D That reinforces his commitment to the annual rates: there is no change\u2014there is no relief in taxation rates or indexation rates for farmers. In fact, farmers were not mentioned throughout the entire Budget. But in terms of lack of taxation relief, Dr Cullen has ripped off not only farmers but also police, nurses, engineers, fitters and turners, stevedores, watersiders, seafarers, printers, customs officers, teachers, flight attendants\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a573c98e773a4fdfbd9d2230c0744c11\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: All Labour voters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e3b92d417f748c7b2c58d7d1c1f6489\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: That is the point I am making. The list includes writers, firefighters, paramedics, and lecturers. They are all hard-working Kiwis, but include many of those whom Dr Cullen purports to represent. They will not receive any break in their tax rates over the next year. Those people, like farmers, are looking for incentives to get ahead. But what has been provided? Nothing! They are taxpayers\u2014the very people who allow us to have a safety net, who allow us to have a welfare system. Without them it would be very difficult to provide a growing safety net.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThey are the people with true transferable skills. In case Dr Cullen does not realise it, we are now living in a global economy where those skills are transferable. For those people\u2014watersiders, seafarers\u2014their standard of living is critical. We do live in a wonderful country; there is nothing surer. I am as patriotic as anybody, but I want to be able to provide at least a similar standard of living to that of Australia, in order to retain those people whose skills are critical to our nation. The facts are that our living standards are not moving ahead as they should be, if we were to be truly patriotic about this country and about keeping those key people here. The fact is that wage rates in Australia in 2000 were 20 percent ahead of ours, and are now 33 percent ahead of where we are now. It is those things that are taking people overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EHelen Clark tells us she wants wage rates like Australia\u2019s\u2014well, she did in 1999. She made this comment in an address in 1999 at the New Zealand Trade Centre: \u201CI for one prefer New Zealand to have rates of growth and living standards akin to\u201D\u2014wait for it!\u2014\u201CAustralia.\u201D Well, what the heck is she doing about it? She is doing nothing. Wage rates are continuing to rise, yet the bill we are debating does nothing about that. When the Opposition raises questions about growing wage rates, members opposite say: \u201CBugger off, then.\u201D. They sit there and wave goodbye. Far from being unpatriotic, members on this side of the House set strong aspirations for those key people I have mentioned\u2014for our seafarers, printers, and many other union members, whose skills are necessary for this nation. Helen Clark says she wants the same\u2014at least she did in 1999. I shall quote her again from that time, when she said she was not prepared to stand back and see the best and brightest leave, taking their ideas and even their businesses with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d97725f0e06453b853d2f5629140cd5\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1fa8d7e2c844cf9942cfdc7c0484f4a\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Helen Clark, in a speech to the Contractors Federation conference. Can members believe it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWhere is the action now? We know that in 2003, 10,000 left; in 2004, 15,000 left; in 2005, 21,000 left. They waved goodbye. But members opposite say: \u201CIf you don\u2019t like it here, goodbye! See you later.\u201D They wave goodbye to our hard workers, like policemen, printers, and seafarers, then they tell Opposition members that we are being unpatriotic. Forget it! How many people will it take to leave for the Government to acknowledge there is a real problem? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EPeter Costello has made it a whole lot harder. That man understands that providing incentives for those key people is important. He knows what it takes to grow an economy, and to provide the very best services possible. It takes hard workers who want incentives to get ahead\u2014and there were 21,000 of them in 2005. Peter Costello is standing at the gates of Sydney airport, with his arms wide open, saying: \u201CCome on in.\u201D Meanwhile, this Government is saying: \u201CIf you don\u2019t like it, goodbye.\u201D I would like to remind this Government about the parable of the goose that laid the golden egg: the Government should not forget that those key people we are talking about\u2014policemen, seafarers, and printers\u2014are important to this country, and that they need incentives to get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ELet us have a quick look at the Australian Government. For the fourth year in a row it has introduced massive, across-the-board tax cuts of A$36.7 billion, which in New Zealand is equivalent to $45 billion. Those cuts are a massive incentive. But let us not focus too much on tax cuts. What tax cuts do is allow wage growth, and people are going to Australia for better wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EMichael Cullen and Helen Clark say there is no room for lower taxes, even though there is an $8.5 billion surplus. I will give members a couple of quotes from Mr Cullen. In September 1999 he said that New Zealand would move to match Australia on company tax, but only when conditions allowed it. I would like to know when conditions will allow it. He has set a few goals: \u201CWell, maybe when the operating surplus gets high enough.\u201D That surplus is $8.5 billion. Then he changed the goal to when the operating balance, excluding revaluations and accounting changes, got high enough. That balance is $7 billion. Then he changed the goal again and said not to worry about the operating balance, excluding revaluations and accounting changes, but to worry about it only when the cash surplus got big enough. That cash surplus is 1.5 billion. I want to know when we get to the point where we can provide incentives for hard-working Kiwis to get ahead. It is not in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESo I say congratulations to Mr Cullen. He has succeeded in relation to his maiden speech comments about farmers\u2014that he had ripped them off for 5 years while he was at school, and that he would get stuck into them over the years ahead. He has managed to do that to farmers, and he has also managed to do it to police, nurses, engineers, fitters and turners, stevedores, watersiders, printers, customs officers, teachers, flight attendants, writers, firefighters, paramedics, and lecturers\u2014to all hard-working Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002204f0df30f0eb4a218af9680bba6efc70\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000381\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000382\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.57 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006052524a3a3f6f3a04b97b5a8b1abcbbfdac3000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"