"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002238e3d022784f41c59d7c7de9d676e4ac\u0022\u003ETuesday, 13 June 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002231323a85356b46e6bfd6dd03768fe591\u0022\u003ETuesday, 13 June 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002279a4a88570ea472188a10df29e49a14f\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278673a53948949e1a2f5444236113720\u0022\u003EBroadcasting (2005 Election Broadcasting Reimbursement) Amendment Bill\u2014Leave to Introduce\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f64643d9124864b3bece831e51536e\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave to introduce the Broadcasting (2005 Election Broadcasting Reimbursement) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222c5147674cf48f7a572b3e84e5fa10a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228994c41b529348bebcac95f3e855002b\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d347c82065746ce9adf3eb5809b4b92\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister, 2 May, and Question No. 3 to Minister, 3 May\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u00227c8c154375824718894d5cd02078cf03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c8c154375824718894d5cd02078cf03\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E It has come to my attention that my answers to oral question No. 8 on 2 May 2006 and to oral question No. 3 on 3 May 2006 were incorrect. In answer to questions from Phil Heatley MP, I said that the chair of Housing New Zealand Corporation had informed me promptly of allegations made by a former contractor. I also confirmed my answers in reply to a written question from Mr Heatley. Mr Snedden, the chair, has now advised me that he has discovered that he was sent a fax containing the settlement agreement on 24 March 2006, 12 days earlier than he originally advised. I am therefore taking the first available opportunity in the House to correct my answers. I have also lodged a corrected answer to the written question asked by Mr Heatley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb10e0e476d24f9d8f6e1aa4dc401712\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f9a18468fb84b7ab75f950bf77a82d5\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208e7e40795cf4adaab154408bd710a36\u0022\u003EEnergy, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af157924b5d6479ead44b383afc9548c\u0022\u003E1. Dr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in the Minister of Energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u00227156bf1e6eef41b291bd90da8184ce80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227156bf1e6eef41b291bd90da8184ce80\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f76a1420d5404de7962dbfc31e618078\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Does she have confidence in the security of power supply to the Auckland region; if not, what steps will she take, and when will she take them, so that she can express such confidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dd9802d5a87438096486b868f6e90e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Like all Aucklanders I am very concerned that this single event did trigger a stop in the supply to Auckland. Accordingly, I have asked for a report to be at the Cabinet policy committee tomorrow morning. The Minister of Energy is asking Ministry of Economic Development officials, the Electricity Commission, and Transpower to supply reports as quickly as possible. If there is a need to change policy, that can be done, but it may be that Transpower needs to speed up some investment around the \u014Ct\u0101huhu substation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3c8278e2e6548c3a7576bcb697ade91\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when Dr Keith Turner, Managing Director of Government-owned Meridian Energy, advised last year that \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s electricity grid is so overworked that some lines cannot be taken out for servicing. That is unheard of in the Western developed world.\u201D, did no one in her Government take this to be a serious warning from a very senior energy expert, and why is it that in the intervening period no one in her Government has taken any action as a result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d73c977b425c4cf1851ab7a27541537b\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: On the contrary, improving transmission on the grid into Auckland is a very high priority for the Government. It might be rather nice if National MPs like Judith Collins and Lindsay Tisch did not put every obstacle in the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022394090d0fde4430ea944a9d786606646\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware of the statement made by her Minister of Energy to the Parliament last November, following Dr Keith Turner\u2019s observations, that \u201Cthe problem is not as bad as the member would have others believe\u201D, and does this still represent the official position of her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbeab59efda14a1cb6860d8e6512c91c\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The transmission system needs an upgrade. The Minister, however, has not had an outage, unlike the Leader of the Opposition, who took 23\u00BD hours to put out a statement on the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2d06f2b5cdd433c82abc022c90d7f67\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister sought any costings of what it would take to ensure that every electricity system in the country was duplicated so that even a freak storm bringing down a wire could never cause an outage, and has she had any advice from the leader of the National Party as to whether they would be prepared to forgo tax cuts in order to pay for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022016dbbee245742eab5d95fd45bc3ed07\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I think the cost of doing that doubling of all systems would be absolutely incalculable, but I understand that voodoo economics as proclaimed by the National Party says we can cut taxes and spend more on absolutely everything. So voodoo economics lives on, in the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec45802183964f689bef97e567ed3ab2\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: How many years does Labour have to be in office before it starts delivering solutions, instead of procrastinating and prevaricating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242dca4b727104449b409a23ece150586\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has delivered immensely more investment in energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230deadb9ef0542b99cbac84a72921534\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Families\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220192fb3b79b74e6e89fecedbdf5d152a\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What steps is he taking to ensure families have access to quality, affordable housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce857a108c524aba8e5c87b374fa4a3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce857a108c524aba8e5c87b374fa4a3f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Budget 2006 takes the total funding for State house acquisition to $659 million over the next 3 years, when we plan to acquire an additional 2,000 State houses. The Labour-led Government believes quality, affordable housing is fundamental to the health and well-being of families and communities\u2014unlike National, which sold 13,000 State houses in the 1990s, mostly to developers, not tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207cbc81e09fc4c6a89549f2fdbeb8fbf\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received on the value of State houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fe5b151fffc4f1ba915d0b6264f129c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report that describes the building of State houses as \u201Ceconomic vandalism\u201D, and states that land has a lot more potential than just somewhere to build a bunch of State houses. I have also seen a report that states that housing policy is not important, does not require a party leader\u2019s time, and does not have financial implications. The first statement was from John Key, who, by the way, grew up in a State house, and the second admission from Don Brash confirmed that the National Party cares only about money, not people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ee2b378f2e483ebafe426f7a88c760\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare. What strategies has the Minister developed to ensure a M\u0101ori person earning the median income of $23,600 can service a mortgage of $275,000, which is the median price for a house in the Waikato, Bay of Plenty, and Gisborne region, at 8.2 percent over 25 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d078b50fc8034cc7aa4cc81b62d8b6e9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has embarked on addressing the needs of low-income people in a wide variety of ways\u2014not least of all the Working for Families package, which brings a lot more cash into low-income families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240cd15b9402940f3b9748ef4b349b49b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports of any National Party MPs who grew up in very expensive houses opposing building very expensive houses in their electorate, or is it only people who grew up in State houses opposing State housing developments that he has heard about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257217ce2909d41639065d18ef10982bb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: None whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225cc676bb118d4a6c96334e4b476e6725\u0022\u003EElectricity Supply\u2014Energy, Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc8b7b31888e490994aa289b562bf933\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Does he stand by his statement \u201CI do recognise that it\u2019s my responsibility to ensure that \u2026 the lights don\u2019t go out in New Zealand\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00220025522e2bed4e4ab64865039dd2e3b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220025522e2bed4e4ab64865039dd2e3b4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do. The situation in Auckland yesterday was unacceptable\u2014as I said then. The Government is taking steps to prevent it from happening again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed1d3ff6728c4eceac389238e7ee9aff\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept he was wrong on 17 November last year to minimise concern about New Zealand\u2019s electricity system when I put to him the concerns of Dr Keith Turner, his own Ministry of Economic Development, and Treasury, and he replied: \u201C\u2026 the problem is not as bad as the member and others would have us believe.\u201D, and how bad will it have to get, our having had 700,000 people and our economic capital brought to their knees, for this Minister to accept we have a problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220beed7e1731f4fbc913250196097d8f4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accepted at the time, and accept now, that we have a problem. The issue on which I disagreed with the member at the time, I think, related to assertions that Auckland was equivalent to a Third World city, which is just not correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae5ec330b6c6431db0d495a6dc0db028\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to ensure that the situation in Auckland yesterday does not happen again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223452523832824ea5b1446fc366f12270\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will get a report within 2 weeks on why the wider system did not cope with the consequences of yesterday\u2019s line failure at the \u014Ct\u0101huhu substation. It will be urgently considered, and remedial action will be taken promptly. As a priority, we are investigating whether an additional substation is needed to share the load at \u014Ct\u0101huhu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e173f843e1d43598a2e10f122a01a11\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister tell the people of New Zealand on Campbell Live last night that a new circuit from Pakuranga to Penrose of 220 kilovolts was approved when that is not the case, when that proposal is not budgeted for, and when no resource consent has been applied for; why did he mislead the people of New Zealand last night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dec38fd2044842e2bb58e8c1ea7bc06f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not. I was referring to the fact that it is approved by Transpower, and is part of a request for information that it presently has out and is consulting upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221d1d71be1ed45a5a247d07785dfdda7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: You said it was approved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239fe1ba9fe6c4870a5efe2393c0360ac\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is approved by Transpower.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d0b2268db104b248bacbcdbf5f99f03\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that New Zealanders basically require three fundamental factors, which are, first, a significant amount of new electricity, second, a fair and competitive price regime, and, third, security of supply; and is he in a position to assure the House that those three factors will be delivered upon in this term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275c98ab02d0c4956a1e3cd6e875d3361\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I agree; they are three fundamentals that we are striving to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c85e21a6510b4e48b63d8d39dc659fe8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement in the New Zealand Herald this morning that he had requested Transpower \u201Cto investigate separating out parts of the Otahuhu substation under its plan to upgrade transmission into Auckland after 2013.\u201D; and does he believe that the people of Auckland should put up with insecure power supply for another 5 years under his incompetent Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39c5574086b456e81b4299b3ae281cf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not accept that characterisation of it. What I did was refer to the current proposals that Transpower had already planned for the separation of some of the lines at \u014Ct\u0101huhu to another part of the site, so as to achieve some physical separation, and I went on to say that I had asked Transpower to consider whether it should advance that plan, or whether, indeed, there was a need for another substation at some distance apart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022141607ab00b34045ac4ab28c8f2e86c1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When\u2014and I ask in the interest of learning from past experience\u2014was there last a power blackout in Auckland, how many days, rather than hours, did it last, who had been in power for 8 years at that time, and which party did the then Minister of Energy come from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262a1c623a21c419fae9fbbdc4a982a71\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Because the member over there\u2014the Government\u2019s little lapdog\u2014has referred to history\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edd526e22976403696aa43e39bb62477\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know that it is the first day, but when members are speaking to points of order they are entitled to be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022186b8d4eb6474d23a2e33491895580ee\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Before we deal with that point of order, an expression used by that member was absolutely unparliamentary. It should be ruled out, and it should not be repeated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf10b31555d04631aeda967c6b2a0788\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e707f4f4f8e47f392d656a34d4d4837\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has withdrawn and apologised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288d4a436210941158f5736f06038bfe3\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, my point is in the interests of history, and to assist you to work out whether that was a reasonable question. It is worth pointing out that the power failure in Auckland in 1998 was due to a large transmission line owned by Vector Energy, not by any State agency, and it had nothing to do with the Minister of Energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebc1415646c0419ca62d55969f184ca2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278c5f2899baf4c1a8d6079cd620a9b67\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That member of Parliament has taken to raising points of order, throwing in some bad language that is totally outside the Standing Orders and the Speakers\u2019 rulings, and getting away with it. Madam Speaker, if I began my response to him by talking about \u201CMr Cellulite\u201D or \u201CTeletubby\u201D, you would stop me in my tracks immediately, and rightfully so. He should be warned that if he carries on like that, he will not get to make a point of order or ask a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224354eff72d874f0ba36bb19ef9440be1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the members. As I said, we are starting a new sitting, so let us keep the points of order that are raised to actual points or order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022559b0fe04f4c48c7803be27a9e6baefe\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: To help the member who has asked the question, I seek the leave of the House to table Mr Winston Peters\u2019 speech in the urgent debate on the 1998 power failure, when he said National could not be held responsible for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992b0c1675364673852dd43c51a43cbe\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. [Interruption] The question can be addressed, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bdfff8fc1b44b69a562395f391f4f7d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The year was 1998. The number of days was more than five times seven\u2014because it was more than 5 weeks\u2014so it was more than 35. As a consequence of the dire straits of many parts of the New Zealand infrastructure inherited by this Government, we are spending lots of additional resource on roads and public transport. In relation to capital upgrades to transmission lines, the amount of the capital works programme is more than five times the size of that which we inherited from the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219eb27415ff5466b8b499af969a44dd7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that this Labour Government has invested sufficient in New Zealand\u2019s electricity infrastructure, when it has taken over $2 billion in profits from consumers and spent less than 10 percent of that money on new infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcb06748a92f4e1385db2116d2d8c630\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The amount being spent on upgrades in and around Auckland this year is $83 million, the total amount being spent throughout New Zealand in the coming year is more than $300 million, and the total being spent over the next 3 years is more than $1 billion. If it takes more than that to do it to a higher standard, and a higher standard is necessary, we will spend that additional money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220596d786d8a04dd688af043ac4f5dedf\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that Transpower pays the Government dividends\u2014albeit a modest $10 million last year\u2014and, in the light of the Auckland problems, will he recommend to the appropriate Minister that the Government forgoes the dividends until the Auckland problems have been completely fixed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022122676c887144893bb4c4cbb4a432a9d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that is evident in the question. A dividend of a mere $10 million is not a capital constraint that is holding back Transpower\u2019s investment in the grid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4cecf0447834446ac7a3056a0209488\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government ignored the calls from Transpower in the 2002 annual report, the 2003 annual report, the 2004 annual report, and the 2005 annual report that the Resource Management Act must be reformed if Transpower is to be able to maintain and upgrade the grid in a timely way; and will this Government reconsider and reform that Act, so that New Zealand can have infrastructure that will service a modern economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbdc28513a564c288dcd2d78c1bdcd94\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not accept the proposition that the Resource Management Act is to blame for either the problems we had in South Auckland or the transmission upgrades we need to make through the Waikato. Further, I would note that practical progress is being made by the acquisition of land, on a voluntary basis, through the Waikato. If and when Transpower believes that it actually needs assistance to compulsorily acquire land from those who are holding out, I have no doubt it will come to the Government and ask us for permission to use the Public Works Act compulsory acquisition route.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bd1e45aa8c946158773afe6e9d54a19\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports of the likelihood of his receiving an attack today from a political party that was responsible for a 35-day blackout, in respect of a Government that is responsible for a 5-hour blackout?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5e4192d2e943c28a1df84dd691b320\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Incredible though it seems, I expected it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e5646d00ff4e739dd212620098b992\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table Transpower\u2019s annual reports for the years 2002-03, 2003-04, and 2004-05, and its 6-monthly report, all stating that the Resource Management Act needed to be reformed in order for Transpower to be able to upgrade our transmission system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a4fedf901645698a523497a044d398\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220377691bd0fc47f7aea1907424fd8e25\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the statement made by Dr Keith Turner in February last year that New Zealand\u2019s electricity system was so bad that some lines, and specifically the lines into Auckland, could not be properly maintained, because they could not be taken out of action for servicing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a5cd0e8dba44c24978e5216c178983e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that the Minister\u2019s response earlier\u2014in answer to my question to him about his having said that the problem was not that bad\u2014that he had said that comment in response to my referring to Auckland as being of a Third World standard was not correct, I seek leave to table the Hansard from 17 November last year in which the Minister disputed Dr Keith Turner\u2019s concerns and said that the problem actually was not that bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229792c25088b54575a810393e2f6be5bd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b3ef85239714c7eab08c916327e1a8d\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any messages in the past 24 hours regarding the power blackout in Auckland from the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues; if so, what additional measures has he put in place for Auckland; if not, is he surprised that he has not heard from the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d6ce0e768f047ae97b20a518adaa475\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have; indeed, the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues sought and had an appointment with me to discuss her concerns that the outage of a line at \u014Ct\u0101huhu could cause such a widespread power blackout in Auckland. She is very keen to be kept informed as to the remedial measures I propose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aabafbe559a540a3bd8c76db578a2f0c\u0022\u003EAgeing Population\u2014Financial Implications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca3ae9f85a9e49ca9c0753f3c78807e7\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the likely impact of an ageing population on New Zealand\u2019s finances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00227d8884a2ccc54c418a2860f13bbea812\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d8884a2ccc54c418a2860f13bbea812\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E That is not a personal question. I recently received a Standard and Poor\u2019s report that concludes that this Government\u2019s programme of debt reduction and provision for future superannuation costs has made New Zealand one of the best-placed nations in the world to cope with the costs of an ageing population. The report also noted that tax cuts on the scale of Australia\u2019s would be \u201Cvery short-sighted\u201D and questioned whether they would be sustainable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7af94ebe6c54cf18314375dce58a2f2\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koutou te Whare. In light of the significant difference in life expectancy, with M\u0101ori dying an average of 8 years earlier than non-M\u0101ori, what reports has the Minister received outlining the impact of that disparity on the economy, and is that a concern for the Government or is the Minister pleased to be saving money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235bf79d7cf8548d78e84e6c54788f939\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is very doubtful that that disparity saves much money, given the higher health-care costs that are incurred as a consequence of low health standards amongst many M\u0101ori. I can report that publications due to come out in the near future will show that those disparities are being reduced under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022072ba20eebed45029787afd74dad45bb\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that one of the most important ways to prepare our economy for the demographic changes is to have a skilled and motivated workforce here in New Zealand, and can he also confirm that one of the most debilitating factors for our economy has been that so many skilled and motivated workers have in the past 6 years got up and moved to Australia because the wage gap has widened from 20 percent to 33 percent under his watch; if he cares so much about those issues, what does he intend to do about them before he retires?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e047a4e1f7449ca90f1b5dd52ff6980\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and no. I can confirm that we have maintained net in-migration of 10,000 a year, that we show a net in-migration of skilled people, and that throughout every year in the 1990s, under a National Government, out-migration to Australia increased in net terms, including in the 2 years after tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202599611bb45458181d9f46a2a0cfe03\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any other reports on why alternative strategies may be short-sighted and unsustainable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228be8392491f24e68896c9decf44ddaa9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The Monetary Policy Statement from the Reserve Bank highlights the current inflationary risk facing the economy. In such an environment, it is clear that large-scale tax cuts without corresponding expenditure reductions would fuel inflation and increase interest rates, as a former Governor of the Reserve Bank would himself have said when he was the Governor of the Reserve Bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d78d5808cc16467196a9568317db0e03\u0022\u003ETerrorism Suppression Act\u2014Designations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235948b1e89874e7bb18abedfc5fffe3e\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (National\u2014East Coast Bays)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Has she designated any individuals or organisations as terrorist entities under section 20 of the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002, apart from those designated under United Nations Resolution 1267 (1999); if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u002234d01000276046608f95451a1a3a117f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234d01000276046608f95451a1a3a117f\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E No. There has been no advice that such designation is justified at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ce3e7c180f4f2f82f0133806074760\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether it is the case that Rayed Mohammed Abdullah, also known as Rayed Mohammed Abdullah Ali, who was expelled last week under section 72 of the Immigration Act, was on an alert list held by the New Zealand border authorities and managed to slip past them, or that he was not on any such list at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273044dba092f425c962aafcdc5e6e5b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I will not comment in the House on who is or is not on lists, but I can say that this man presented as a Mr Ali, which was not information the Government had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c71df2a9af9547acbbea09e1f6399b1c\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Prime Minister ask the House to pass the Terrorism Suppression Act, in the wake of the September 11 attacks, to provide special powers for the authorities in dealing with terrorists designated by her under section 22 of that Act if she did not actually intend to designate any such terrorists; can she explain why Australia has designated 88 and Canada over 50 non UN - specified terrorists under their legislation, while she has designated none?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225842573fc3714fbfa6e832bde0b565e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for those Governments, acting on advice. I will act on advice if I receive it, but I am not going to designate at whim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e86f0cb66ca4ae987b8c21726415c1d\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: What confidence can New Zealanders have in our security arrangements when Rayed Mohammed Abdullah, who was named in the official September 11 commission\u2019s report as someone who flatted and trained with one of the September 11 hijackers, and who made extremist speeches at the local mosque, was not designated under the Terrorism Suppression Act or, apparently, placed on any other list of potentially dangerous individuals as someone whom we did not want to have in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f546cfab7024716a8266684e8426094\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The confidence the member should have is that this man was detected and summarily deported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a510549196b845f0b1de51b2f0242155\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm media reports that Rayed Mohammed Abdullah managed to get past the New Zealand authorities simply by adding the word \u201CAli\u201D at the end of his name, and should any terrorists out there take that as a signal that regardless of any alerts held against them, they can gain entry into New Zealand simply by adding the word \u201CSmith\u201D at the end of their names?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022003af3b7a76d4cc985ff753cb38035da\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I would not recommend trying that, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202bf128be63e48d9b96fd5e7e68fd98b\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Has it crossed the Prime Minister\u2019s mind that when Australia has used its post - September 11 anti-terrorist legislation to designate 88 separate terrorists or terrorist organisations, Canada has designated over 50, and the New Zealand Prime Minister has designated precisely none, she may just be giving the impression that New Zealand is a soft touch on matters of national security; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257395f4874ab4c688b495a657867aa7d\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I would not have thought that the Order in Council enabling the deportation of a Mr Ali would lead anyone to conclude that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264091caa45684350b974b29fa50a1bab\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Would it not have been a bit silly to designate Mr Abdullah, or Mr Ali, when the United States interrogated him intensively after September 11 and did not see a need to deport him, even though he was not a US citizen, and could she, without disclosing operational details, give us a bit more of an explanation of why he was deported, in view of the fact that the United States did not deport him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f78b227822642eda2f3b15b5d191e0d\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is the same as the member\u2019s: that this man was not deported from the United States. Personally, I consider it a no-brainer that someone who has been a roommate of a 9/11 terrorist, and who is having pilot training, is here for no particularly good purpose. He seems to have had perfectly adequate English. He applied to come here to learn English. That is not what he set out to do. And he has gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002282d6bebf034d4d008b91d58bb4d6e638\u0022\u003EFinance, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299a0269278264fb39885c6ee5edd9830\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in the Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u00227698e89d48044088964c572473e29d27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227698e89d48044088964c572473e29d27\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d0ef3d5d50494e8c417c93c9805107\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Dr Cullen\u2019s statements that Television New Zealand and three of the countries largest newspapers were biased in their coverage of the debate over tax cuts and were running a personal agenda in favour of tax cuts; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b151b45484a648a3aa21f2809c15203e\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Cullen and I would not be the only people in New Zealand who thought the media had something of an obsession with this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d401353684cd4b148db022f572f2f34b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Did she have any discussions with Dr Cullen following the broadcast of television footage showing him criticising a number of senior journalists for stories about tax cuts, and did she give him any counsel about the inadvisability of shooting the messenger?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225029ef2b7e04bea8d43fa5a3a9f2bf6\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we did have a discussion. The main conclusion of that discussion was to not trust that particular journalist again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269e3d611c80e40d69633f0a3f909d848\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has she told Dr Cullen that while 63 percent of New Zealanders believe he could have given tax cuts, his attacking journalists for doing their job simply reinforces the view that he has no acceptable reason for his heavy taxation burden on New Zealand workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b248dcaad1ad4264a09ff9608bd526ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know how many times the National Party has to be told that New Zealand is not a heavily taxed country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6a77875ab064815abf0fe8c0bf30a56\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that the poor response to the \u201CBondi Budget\u201D is in large part due to Dr Cullen\u2019s failure to deliver much-expected tax cuts, and can she confirm that it will take the retirement of Dr Cullen for Labour to deliver on New Zealand workers\u2019 expectation that they will get tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcc7063cc9964768a2c1eb2f2cb3c78d\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I expect Dr Cullen to keep on delivering better services and infrastructure\u2014all the things that cannot be done if everything is thrown away in tax cuts as the National Party wants to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da854e810b4c497fbee021c57e10e37d\u0022\u003EFood Standards Australia New Zealand\u2014LY038 High Lysine Corn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097eeff8ba4d4120881970d1fd42808c\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Food Safety: Does she have confidence in the recommendation in the draft assessment report by Food Standards Australia New Zealand to approve the sale and use of food derived from LY038 high lysine corn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002244b90628a54d4b7496077da24a6de62e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244b90628a54d4b7496077da24a6de62e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister for Food Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I have no opinion on the draft assessment for the setting of the standard of LY038 corn at this stage, as the application is part way through the process of consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022833c37c8594e46218abb5c7195890a63\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that high lysine corn is substantially different from normal corn in that its high level of lysine, when cooked with the sugars in corn, produces highly hazardous compounds, and is she concerned that the New Zealand Food Safety Authority has made no attempt to assess this demonstrated food hazard that results from cooking or processing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee184a5c99be490ebaaaee4b51f58cf9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of those comments and they have been made in a submission by Dr Heinemann to Food Standards Australia New Zealand. His submissions will be taken into consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239f8e36579a44d1bb04ca93f0219e930\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What steps need to be followed before a standard may be finalised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228075b421628a452daeff37c34f69d651\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: As noted in the original answer, the assessment is still at the draft stage and the application for approval of LY038 corn is still in progress. When this is completed, a final assessment report with recommendations will be made and considered by the Australia and New Zealand Food Regulation Ministerial Council. The ministerial council will consider a draft standard. It can either accept the recommendation made by Food Standards Australia New Zealand or request two reviews before a final decision is made on a draft standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297bfa447aeca40d68755a98c07a7cc26\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Why on earth is Food Standards Australia New Zealand considering approving for human consumption something that has only ever been approved for animal feed, and does this mean that in future anything that has been approved for animal feed will now be allowed in our food supply; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c02dbc40e59e4133b5b228982a211a8e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the last part of the question is no, but the reason this corn is being considered is that Food Standards Australia New Zealand wants it assessed to see whether it would be safe for human consumption if it should accidentally get into the food chain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022431e745cb3b34241b47fdeec8e627d6b\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: When she meets with the Australian Ministers to make the final decision, will she be asking why the New Zealand Food Safety Authority used controls to assess the corn that do not comply with its own rules or with World Health Organization standards, and is she concerned that this decision would set a precedent that Food Standards Australia New Zealand does not have to follow its own rules or those of the World Health Organization, and set a precedent that testing for animal feed can substitute for testing for human food, and set a precedent that hybrids from this new corn would also be legal human food without further testing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224724b9f1a9d44f1fa492b2927b3adcdb\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: There is a lot of water to go under the bridge before it reaches the ministerial council, including an assessment of the final submissions on this application. This application will take account of those matters raised by Dr Heinemann\u2014the very matters the member has mentioned. I am assured the council will consider them. However, Food Standards Australia New Zealand disputes the fact that it has not followed its own rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ef0b388187b4798994c2a5699ddf24e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00223018a8f6b5684ce79ad2f42aff178f59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223018a8f6b5684ce79ad2f42aff178f59\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table, in the interests of veracity and truth, a speech I made on 24 February 1998 on the question of granting a full inquiry into finding out why there had been a blackout in Auckland. In particular, I stated that we intended to discover what kind of operation Mercury Energy had been running and who was responsible for what had happened. It is as simple as that\u2014rather than being the totally obtuse piece of misinformation given by Dr Nick Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eab1edacbee49c7931dcd2289d1933e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab98cb2b508c44a28bcca72f0238ace9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab98cb2b508c44a28bcca72f0238ace9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I assume that that is the same speech for which I sought the leave of the House to table, so perhaps I should read its first line: \u201COne would not have thought from that speech that in 1986 the Labour Government decided to deregulate the electricity industry.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bb1f3485b1744249c7d099808e3e631\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member seeking leave to table that speech, or is this a point of information? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a756076df45405fbb81b4d7551a0499\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is a point of information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203984135a7a247fb869b0606c251b4ae\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is not a point of order. There was objection to the tabling of the document, so we will now move on to question No. 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022470025826cd9448280d2733cf47fb50e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022470025826cd9448280d2733cf47fb50e\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I want to make it very clear that Dr Smith was objecting to the fact that one cannot seek to table the same document twice in 1 day. Dr Smith previously sought to table the speech that Mr Peters wanted to table, but in fact he had leave to do that denied by Mr Peters. So it is not possible for him to seek to table it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022795cff1b5518451a891468819b798d1d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, one can table the same document twice in the same day, so that is not a valid point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac4de40a744a443c95656831f9123648\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac4de40a744a443c95656831f9123648\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is an exact illustration of what I mean about the National Party. The National member sought to table the speech, but now that the member has actually read it, the National Party does not want to table it again. National is wasting Parliament\u2019s time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fabef59614a47b3b33dd9a8277c9d22\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I thank the member. He has made his point, but that was not a point of order, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224df35ea719be47f59796cbce6ea12330\u0022\u003EHealth Sector Strike Action\u2014Junior Doctors and Radiation Therapists\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2c851ea956a4fd9a9705b927a4da692\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What is the latest estimate of how many patients will have their specialist appointment or operation disrupted as a result of strikes by radiation therapists and junior doctors, and what will happen to these patients?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022a38270396de2459696d73a1585525508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a38270396de2459696d73a1585525508\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E District health boards advise that more than 10,000 patients will have their specialist appointments or operations postponed, should both strikes proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226262df1f36a94abf84330da3b676b381\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What did the Minister mean when he told district health board chief executives earlier this year that the Government has an appetite for industrial action in the health sector this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022231717cdaaae4758b9cece770f61eef7\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have never made any such comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263580b6d73a84e20a79f37990686bf8a\u0022\u003EAnn Hartley\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government agree that an average working week of 55 to 58 hours needs to be addressed, and is that not a feature of the junior doctors\u2019 claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c4a441c45c7430ab82f889d4c01b38e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Government does agree\u2014which is why the Doctors in Training Workforce Roundtable was established last year. The number of hours worked by registered medical officers has fallen steeply in recent years, but it can fall further. The issue at the heart of this debate is how to do that, and the choices appear to be either to reduce rigidities in the system or to seek to increase further the number of junior doctors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d236fc9d918d4e9387993481224b8873\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What advice or parameters has the Government given district health boards or their negotiators dealing with the junior doctors\u2019 strike?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d71ffd9524254799b0c449f74716f38b\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There are no parameters offered by the Government, and the key piece of advice for all parties is to remain within New Zealand\u2019s industrial law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271ec6b2bc5474826ba4081095b668b9e\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s preference: to get the extra junior doctors needed to cover the hours released by reducing the working hours of junior doctors, or to deal with the rigidities in the contract?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281e5ee608f624be593203831d2f027c9\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think it needs to be acknowledged that 10,000 New Zealanders will have their out-patient appointments or surgical interventions postponed if this strike proceeds, and I regret that. I urge both parties, if they can see the possibility of a way forward, to resolve the issue before the strike begins on Thursday. If the strike is to proceed\u2014and that seems to be distinctly possible\u2014then, of course, all lifesaving procedures will occur, nonetheless, because the law requires that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262f1ddc52a544724865c8b64ec6c6bd2\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: When hospital nurses won a 20 to 30 percent pay increase did the Minister really expect that other health professionals would settle for 3 percent, and did the Government not foresee that it was triggering a domino effect of industrial action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e27a46d1d1424b0da7e9c7d6e1c98475\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be aware that in the case, for example, of physiotherapists, significant pay increases have been awarded since the nurses\u2019 settlement. However, in the case of radiation therapists and resident medical officers, district health boards are of the view that their significant pay increase preceded those for nurses by some years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba60dd0ef56e4adfb4f803c0ac53683e\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why have things got so bad on this Minister\u2019s watch that he has caused a domino effect of strife throughout the health sector, where the radiotherapists are on strike, the junior doctors are on the verge of a nationwide strike, pharmacy negotiations are in trouble, and general practitioners are rebelling against the Government\u2019s plans to control their businesses; why is it all now such a mess when Annette King kept it so quiet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b42cf666e2574510989df3e5e0b9fac9\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government faces a range of challenges and vicissitudes every week and has done so for 6\u00BD years, and always attempts to approach its challenges with common sense and equanimity, a couple of features that I would commend to the member who seems easily riled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2277c6fe09f40948f592c28b4b177bf\u0022\u003EBuilding Code\u2014Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224b33238aa9b4116bb1abba05e14bcb6\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building Issues: What reports, if any, has he received on the review of the building code?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00223ff830a02974452083599043e95ed018\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ff830a02974452083599043e95ed018\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I have received a number of reports supporting the Government\u2019s review of the building code. The Construction Industry Council said the review will \u201Censure that New Zealanders get what they want from their buildings.\u201D The Registered Master Builders Federation of New Zealand \u201Cwelcomed the review.\u201D The Auckland City Council also welcomed the review for \u201Cthe opportunity it provides to bring in new standards and targets which are better suited to the modern building environment and sustainable development.\u201D I have seen one other commentator, however, clearly still in denial over the terrible consequences of the building industry deregulation in the 1990s, who claimed falsely that building regulations would ban \u201Cthe do-it-yourself builder.\u201D That is wrong; they are protected. That commentator, of course, was the National Party building issues spokesperson, Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e4a09dea93d4f238a7347a5b2d0c43c\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it necessary to review the building code?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022493d629a7ad544398eaaf5b7edcf5f6f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The existing building code is over 15 years old and reflects that which I spoke about\u2014the attitudes of the 1990s. The new code will set out a modern performance-based set of rules and standards for building design and construction so our homes and workplaces are built right the first time. It will have an emphasis on energy efficiency and sustainability, to reflect what people expect from their buildings in the 21st century. I encourage people to get involved in the review\u2014if the members opposite can swallow their pride and admit they were wrong, I am happy for even them to submit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eae341fcc34c4b7eabeca985fd686bc9\u0022\u003EState-owned Enterprises\u2014Scope\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253b0647743534dca81a5a67f26c38f0f\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: Is he confident that expanding the scope of SOEs will result in broader benefits to the economy when the Treasury, the Government\u2019s main policy adviser, says \u201Cthe benefits of expansion are unlikely to be substantial\u201D, and CCMAU says \u201Cthat new initiatives can, and should occur, within the existing operating framework for SOEs\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e714cb63c34a48b4acdd6ad441a91872\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e714cb63c34a48b4acdd6ad441a91872\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, because\u2014unlike the National Party\u2014I do not take everything Treasury says as gospel, and neither comment is correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022332b27ce0d4042a2b96da9f020379621\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: So, in backing this risky plan, what does the Minister know that the combined brains of Treasury, the Crown Company Monitoring Advisory Unit, and the Ministry of Economic Development\u2014all of which have expressed concerns\u2014do not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f808ccbd9afa4c6cb7fefc80845e2dd6\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I would have thought that, being the day after yesterday, today is a very bad day to put a lot of confidence in people of that background.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a34874bfda484c1ca4d02e994bcce470\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is very interesting to hear about this day being the day after yesterday, but pointing out that obvious fact cannot possibly be regarded as addressing that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8915f03ced549ef9b611c3e8eaff7b7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister did address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227000e21828049739cae5c62e28e7aa9\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the boards of State-owned enterprises have the expertise necessary to give effect to this latest policy change; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232b1bb5de9c14b9f8d5e825550f0ab3e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The boards of our State-owned enterprises contain a lot of very experienced and talented business people, many of whom were appointed by the previous National Government. I note that John Key has said he believes that board chairs are Labour Party cronies. I wonder whether he told Wayne Brown, Wayne Boyd, Alison Paterson, Brian Corban, or Jim Bolger that they are Labour Party cronies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fe5f86f25fe49d398a040b81c0a9554\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when one of the lessons of the 20th century is that Governments are not good at running businesses, does the Minister steadfastly cling to State-owned enterprises having 100 percent State ownership when a minority sale to mum and dad investors has the potential to revitalise those businesses, lift local savings and investment, and advance the transformation of the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb75364e091048e8b58ffc250a465521\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Looking at Air New Zealand, Telecom, Tranz Rail, and other wonderful assets that were hocked off in the past in a way\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df080ca426a146b5a3755d32d7b3a8e3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister cannot be heard. As I said, interjections are permitted, but not barracking to the point whereby other members in the Chamber cannot hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ee0b0daa1d141fda23dd407046b11c1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: This time I would back the governance and management of State-owned enterprises against that of the privatised companies that have not been doing very well recently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022153d4af081ab41b29f43d0e018917ac3\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister has just expressed confidence in the current stable of State-owned enterprise directors, does he share the Ministry of Economic Development\u2019s concerns \u201Cabout the ability of the current governance arrangements to cope with this new direction\u201D, and that \u201CState-owned enterprises would require greater and different kinds of commercial acumen to that which is currently expected of State-owned enterprises boards and management\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd2deea078914b0bab627a048fcf83b5\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: We have been doing a lot of improving over the last 6 or 7 years. People like Michelle Boag, a former National Party president who is very close to the National Party; Michael Cox, who was the partner of a Minister at the time; Lindsay Tisch, who was at that time a recently failed MP; Margaret Moir, who was in a similar category; John Armstrong; and Graeme Reeves were all hacks who were put on to State-owned enterprise boards, and we are cleaning them out pretty well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed0484c41694e728fb3c71201ed7a19\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister please advise the House, in referring to Telecom, Air New Zealand, and New Zealand Rail, which of those companies, if any, had a partial minority sale down to mum and dad investors of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ae216a203a4dd09d4ec303846f797a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, Telecom did, and that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e644447d75a47d39b7df546904bb10f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It had a monopoly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb41c365b4c14e6f9506659d22bceb97\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Telecom was partially a trade sale. There was a float within New Zealand by way of application, and a lot of mums and dads bought into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269bfc5a8327549aea4de5e18344279f2\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his Cabinet paper that indicates one reason for encouraging State-owned enterprises to diversify is that \u201C\u2026 we do not want SOEs to get into a rut, to become too predictable and boring for those who work in and with them.\u201D; and since when has risking taxpayers\u2019 money been about creating a workplace that is not boring or a State-owned enterprise that is not boring to work with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293073a16d96d4c90a146ba36709b78dd\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Frankly, a \u201Csteady as she goes\u201D, \u201Cno change\u201D approach has caused us to lose some talented State-owned enterprise executives. I would prefer their jobs to be challenging, and sometimes that involves those State-owned enterprises having a bit of skin in the game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80e22b1f8d941828bb49e30040a0913\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that is an OK reason to embark on a risky expansion programme to create a workplace that is not boring, and does the Minister know the difference between a State-owned enterprise and a social club?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f42773cb8846838ee78c93da94e98c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly that is not the only reason one moves in that way, but I think if it does hold talented executives in State-owned enterprises, then that is another good reason for doing what is good transformational policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4469fc241304d1d8c4fa18137929533\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that one example, which has already been undertaken, was Meridian Energy\u2019s expansion into Australia, which enabled it to purchase wind power at much reduced cost and also led to a very substantial profit on the sale of those Australian assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221841ad541a984556bf5789a6fc1593d7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: From memory it was either $600 million or $800 million in profit, which I think has made a very worthwhile contribution to Auckland roads. I know that members opposite opposed it at the time, but that does not surprise me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022939c32db00db4417a0b0820e0d9000d9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm, on the question of State-owned enterprise management, sale, or otherwise, whether he recalls the sale of the BNZ, which at that time had 60 percent\u2014[Interruption] History is important for a young lad like that member. It might pay to learn some.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d121395e7b426f93fed366efa24bea\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member just ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b7e21f88ba430db8092de4c99709d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: He should be shot out of the House. He intervened while I was asking a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220de000abbfcc4dc48bc3552d252d3fe9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is actually right. All members are entitled to the courtesy of not being interrupted when asking their question. Would the member please start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a1aa605bc9a4ef0aa21f4692cbb03f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister remember the sale of the BNZ in October 1992 by the National Government, which was then led by Jim Bolger, when the BNZ had 60 percent of New Zealanders as banking customers, and the subsequent taking up of the job of heading Kiwibank by one Jim Bolger, and is that evidence that the National Party has learnt something from its past experience or\u2014going by that question today\u2014that it has learnt nothing at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245afaa5a520e4f19b9267d96ee043423\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is not responsible for National Party members, but if it is within the responsibility of the Minister, in terms of the chair, and it is addressed in that narrow way, then that should be within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022161d82f7329046c8b99189433c63399f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is a very, very loose interpretation of the Standing Orders. It would lead us to the point where somebody who is sympathetic to a position the Government wanted to advance could ask any old question. A Minister could then attempt at least to give an answer that might placate both the proposer of the question and the Government\u2019s own ends. Question time should be to question Ministers about things for which they are responsible. This is hardly one of those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435f9a2c22bf42ae8936507933c0d26c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The fact is that Jim Bolger was the National Party Prime Minister who sold the BNZ. He is also the former National Party leader who took a job as the head of Kiwibank. Surely, as he was not included in the list of hacks explained by the Minister, that is a fair question to ask. The question is whether the Minister takes that as evidence that some people learn from their experiences. He made the appointment, after all, not them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272cc5aa2b4904cf2b15464225edb8d27\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister does not have any responsibility for what National Party members may learn from their experience, so the question from that point of view is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114b625aeeca4bf9b92565b5da76aca9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do, though, I think have responsibility for what State-owned enterprise board chairs learn from their experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f22febb93acb4f8cac550d825408faa1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That may well be true, but that was not the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292b1f9911a224af5b3654cea97a64199\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It was, actually. It was about the Kiwibank chair, Jim Bolger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad6ff74b694445e2a017ac6fed31af80\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member like to redirect his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f046804a4674ba392b5b19991585cc1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That member has made it his responsibility to get up and raise totally nebulous, silly, and irrelevant points of order, and he should not be allowed to get away with it. The fact is that Jim Bolger did sell BNZ, against a lot of opposition in this House. He then took the job as the head of Kiwibank, and my original question related to the matter of experience. After all, that Minister belongs to the Government that made the appointment, and I am entitled to ask whether he thinks it has got anything from it. The fact that the National Party is deeply embarrassed by it is neither here nor there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b51c1ef2ab7f436280387a3f6e38bae8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that Jim Bolger was the chair of New Zealand Post. He subsequently became the chair of Kiwibank. He is a very good chair and is someone who understands the role of State-owned enterprises expanding in order to add economic value. I do know that, both at the time and subsequently, National Party people opposed that expansion, because they just do not like the New Zealand taxpayer owning anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b37a8612ebf4e01a0eff4e23ce27f53\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abbfd6d22534d6e9f70788ef7105cca\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister guarantee that State-owned enterprises will not diversify into markets already served by private sector businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d0559285e7c4a8cb45968c975df55ad\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest that the member reads the Cabinet paper and the press statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc229d2555f94dc9adfae05409aa9314\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. If the Minister would like to expand on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e752b93f1a8c451eb66d48d90436cde8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is made very clear, both in the press statement and in the Cabinet paper, that there is a requirement for spillover benefits. Shunting a private sector company out of a small niche market is something that just would not be acceptable under those criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295a4fe4edcce49adab59091cd1591428\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Mr Copeland asked the Minister a question during the course of that questioning about whether Telecom had been partially sold down to mum and dad investors. There was quite a lot of noise going on in the House and I am not sure I heard the Minister correctly, but I think he said that, yes, Telecom was sold in part in a trade sale, and in part to mum and dad investors. My recollection is that Telecom was sold outright in 1990 by the Government, of which Helen Clark was Deputy Prime Minister at the time, to a series of large American corporates and a small number of\u2014I think, two\u2014New Zealand wealthy investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ef30d020fbd471589f434923a3e42a2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: It would be very helpful to have all the facts. The member got as far as his memory took him; however, he forgot it was a condition of that sale that there was a subsequent on-sale down on the New Zealand sharemarket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7bb4726589741e0bd9721ab22d1e423\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is all very interesting, but I want to rule on this point of order. They were not points of order, though they were points of information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223978d05887e4485abe763b1098a6b942\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a prospectus for the privatisation of Auckland airport, signed by the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278df6215a2f04c62bb9eb330f75ec2a0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table all the surrounding publicity for that sale, which was exclusively to the New Zealand market, in respect of those shares that went on the market that day at a price way above anybody\u2019s expectations\u2014so one could say it is the only successful privatisation this country has ever seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef86433fa3704a958e1ad44fc4535b17\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230829cd553474d739603ffd73d797f93\u0022\u003EAotea (Great Barrier) Marine Reserve\u2014Tribal Fishing Rights\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb61ee207d84d2a90c941686a66de98\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Fisheries: Is he satisfied that the tribal fishing rights of Ng\u0101ti Wai have been satisfactorily addressed in the process of creating a proposed marine reserve off Great Barrier Island?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u00227732f86132cc4127bf95e1f44bb3bf52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227732f86132cc4127bf95e1f44bb3bf52\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Associate Minister of Fisheries)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Fisheries: I can advise that the Minister does have some concerns about the potential impact the proposed marine reserve at Great Barrier Island could have on the customary fishing rights of Ng\u0101ti Wai. These concerns, along with all other potential impacts of the proposal on fishing activities, are currently being considered by the Ministry of Fisheries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf590807318471d86841d086a7b955f\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: How many marine reserve proposals for the Northland area are currently being considered, and at what point does the Minister of Fisheries become involved in the evaluation and consultation process of marine reserve proposals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cad7f21783d3422b8e50806d403bd298\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know the exact figure for marine reserve proposals in Northland, but I do know that the Marine Reserves Act 1971 requires the Minister of Fisheries\u2019 concurrence with the Minister of Conservation\u2019s decision. This ensures that fisheries stakeholders\u2019 rights, including customary rights, are taken into account before marine reserves are established.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc131cef777846eea794a530eda954a0\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister of Fisheries assign a weighting to the Ng\u0101ti Wai tribal rights in his consideration of whether he should give his concurrent consent to the establishment of a marine reserve off Great Barrier Island; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddda773df9e34b74b272734a95902ba4\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: On 23 May 2006 ministry officials also met with the Ng\u0101ti Wai Trust Board\u2014Ng\u0101ti Wai in Whangarei\u2014which is the iwi authority recognised by te iwi o Ng\u0101ti Wai under the M\u0101ori Fisheries Act 2004, to discuss customary fishing around the region of Aotea. He is looking forward to more information from the officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022042306d31fde4257bf582446973e9e64\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I should not have to raise this point of order, but the M\u0101ori affairs spokesman for the National Party shouted out: \u201CWho are the Ng\u0101ti Wai?\u201D. Well, they are the people of the sea\u2014unlike the people all at sea, which is the party he belongs to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022158e470950074ab5997dd204413994b5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b41136fdbf6476bbec4f7d297eac784\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u2014Conflicts of Interest Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deed727bed0a427785f279ade49f7c4a\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: When does she expect to receive the Ingram report on alleged conflicts of interest involving Taito Phillip Field, given that she originally set the deadline for 4 October last year, just 9 working days after she first established the inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u002225c987759a454866a869bf7d33a6074b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225c987759a454866a869bf7d33a6074b\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E When it is finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c3ffc010ed94bdaa8a9c1ae04d4ccf7\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister\u2019s maintenance of \u201Cregular contact\u201D with Taito Phillip Field led her to stand by her statement of 14 September last year: \u201CI think the only thing he is probably guilty of is trying to be helpful to someone.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4775fa8aa104f7fac8e64e034fb7179\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed I think he was, but I am awaiting a full report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022561e898721404665999b098c16940864\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: When Taito Phillip Field told the media: \u201COnly God knows the truth of what is going to happen \u2026 you should ask him\u201D, did she take that as a commitment to his remaining a member of the Labour Party; if not, what commitment has she received that he will remain in the Labour Party in Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ebe0ed316642159dfb5a427e51f592\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That question relates to the Prime Minister as a party leader, not as the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221343dfd64333458caa5b03b382c8598e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That question goes right to the heart of the Government\u2019s ability to maintain a majority. I do not think the matter can be dismissed as being a Labour Party issue; it is very much an issue for the Government. Everyone knows that if Taito Phillip Field leaps to some other party, as he is entitled to do, then the Government would suddenly need to have a different set of arrangements to maintain a majority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d4c184db144930bffbf95cd8f09001\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: This is a very important point, because, of course, if that question is allowed, it is equally in order for us to ask questions of Dr Brash, in his role as leader of the parliamentary National Party, about members of his caucus. The fact that there is a differentiation in role between being the leader of a party and being the Prime Minister is fundamental to the way in which question time can operate. If the member cares to consult the Standing Orders, he will find that it is possible to address questions to a private member in relation to his or her parliamentary responsibilities, and if that question is allowed in the form in which it has been asked, then we can ask that member\u2014and I am sure we would like to, frequently\u2014questions about his colleagues and his responsibility for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ca1f5bb3e94e3b9b34d387da6cc81d\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The reason why I believe that that question falls within the Standing Orders is that the Prime Minister also has a responsibility to maintain the confidence and supply of this Parliament\u2014in other words, a majority. If one of her members has an intention to leave her party, that brings into question her ability as Prime Minister to maintain a majority in this Parliament. She is responsible for that. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022426d934be904496a96cade07cb6f2746\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order, please! This is an important point. The Prime Minister can certainly be asked about whether the Government has the confidence of the House, but the issue is about the individual member in terms of his party membership. So I ask the member to try to redirect his question towards the issue of ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0dab9e1384a4bb4bbcce7e92b89179b\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister told the media that Taito Phillip Field\u2019s position is that \u201Che is working through the issues in the report but I have no reason to doubt his membership of the Labour Party.\u201D, was she saying that regardless of the seriousness of any of the findings in the Ingram report, no actions of her former Minister, while he was a Minister, could be sufficiently serious for her to question his continued membership of the Labour Party in Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221580cb0f07774e32ac4dfc87a114bc4f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That relates to when the member was a Minister, so if the Prime Minister can address any confidence she has at that level, not after the time when he stood down from being a Minister, then that would be acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcc9771a6fd94498917bca4e978a31f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The member is not a Minister, so I do not have responsibility for his actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e78fcba580441294323b6ff3112158\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: During her \u201Cregular contact\u201D with Taito Phillip Field, did he discuss with her the reasons that the Asian crime unit may have been investigating his activities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a1114c96d42413ba519ae30d7182da2\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: My contact with Mr Field is as the leader of the party, not as Prime Minister. I have responsibility here only as Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e913fbde86476ba0a7b297779103d3\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: In ensuring that she maintains a majority in this Parliament, does she have any standards at all that she expects of members of her administration in meeting the normal legal requirements of this country, or are there no standards at all and would she accept any behaviour in trying to maintain the confidence and supply of this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd3401faef3c4fefa73d57949bc3fd35\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Field is not a Minister, and in terms of standards Dr Smith would never make the cut in this Government, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d858f98bdc14052b26955aba3da3001\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have just heard a most serious allegation made against a member of this House. I would have assumed that such a serious allegation would be backed up with some proof or documentary evidence, or with something to verify the reason that that question was asked. The question was not asked accidentally; it was planned. I do not know whether there is such evidence, but Dr Lockwood Smith owed it to this Parliament to provide some evidence before he asked a question in such a cavalier fashion, implicating a member of Parliament in a possible crime. I ask him to give us that evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804adc06565e43dc89c142b1bbe30af3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead3e3fde4ed4dabbd93a1e3566ae21a\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to make a personal explanation under the appropriate Standing Order of this House. I want to make it clear to this House, and to the member that has just asked those questions in relation to a possible investigation, that the only thing I am guilty of is to go overboard, or to go the extra mile, in order to help people who came to me in a desperate situation. I want to make that quite clear to that member, who has, on various occasions in the last few months, questioned the Prime Minister with regard to that issue. I want to make it quite clear that my statements to the media last week, in relation to the question the reporter asked me about my future, meant that I do not have a crystal ball. All I said, in response to that question, was that only God knows the future, and that the reporter should ask Him. If the member wants to make something out of that statement in relation to my loyalty to the Labour Party, then he is going down the wrong track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c75c914464ac47558f9b37762e7fe2a9\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022609f4534ddcd465aaacd90875a439868\u0022\u003EState-owned Enterprises\u2014Expansion into New Business Areas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd84bf18653244f59dcc34804a31dbd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd84bf18653244f59dcc34804a31dbd4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a number of applications seeking a debate under Standing Order 380. The first, from Gordon Copeland, relates to a change in policy for State-owned enterprises regarding their expansion into new business areas. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility, but I do not feel that it requires the immediate attention of the House by way of an urgent debate. There will be other parliamentary opportunities to explore the implications of this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f1bf43a56464977b31f888df3fad9d0\u0022\u003ERayed Mohammed Abdullah Ali\u2014Expulsion\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u002230630cafa96549f8be51666f36b2053f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230630cafa96549f8be51666f36b2053f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The second application is from the Hon Murray McCully relating to a decision to expel Rayed Mohammed Abdullah Ali. The expulsion is a particular case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility. However, again, I am unable to see why the decision to expel this particular individual requires the immediate attention of the House by way of urgent debate. These applications are declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002238e315dbc7134086bd568a707380e777\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022444c94efb40342128b2719988b20701a\u0022\u003EPower Outage\u2014Upper North Island\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00222a92c24515184591aa3d9cb92d3544a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a92c24515184591aa3d9cb92d3544a8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The third application is from the Hon Dr Nick Smith relating to the power shortage that occurred yesterday affecting the upper North Island. This is also a case of particular occurrence involving a ministerial or administrative responsibility of the Government, and, given the nature of the incidence, I think it is important enough to warrant the attention of the House by way of an urgent debate. I therefore accept that application and call on the Hon Dr Nick Smith to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226c2a009fb20a42aca9e2ffcc99e2bb86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c2a009fb20a42aca9e2ffcc99e2bb86\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. The scale, and the cost, of yesterday\u2019s power failure was enormous. Over 700,000 people\u201425,000 businesses, 380 schools, 300 sets of traffic lights, eight hospitals and rest homes, and two universities\u2014were affected. Critical hospital operations were cancelled, dozens of people were trapped in lifts for hours, and hundreds of thousands of people were grossly inconvenienced. The tragedy is that it did not need to happen. The direct losses will top over $70 million. The damage to Auckland\u2019s confidence and respect will be far more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis is Third World stuff, and it is a disgrace for this Government. It is just not credible for the Prime Minister to blame the weather, as she did this morning. This was not a major storm event in Auckland. The winds were high, but they were not extreme. Not a single roof in Auckland was lost, yet our power infrastructure was so poor that it was brought to a halt. It simply is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe technical explanation for the blackout is that a single overhead earth wire broke. It fell on to Transpower\u2019s 110-kilovolt switching equipment, bringing the whole system down. No doubt there will be technical questions to resolve over why the wire failed, whether the wire was properly maintained, and whether the design was appropriate. But the real question that we must get to the bottom of is why Auckland\u2019s power was so fragile that the failure of a single wire was sufficient to bring the economic capital of New Zealand to its knees. And that is a political question for which this Government must be held accountable. On taking up the role, the Minister of Energy said: \u201CI do recognise it is my responsibility to ensure that the lights don\u2019t go out in New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa414e3dae6042a58e8d67a7b89ecb45\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What did he say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a69adccb1443aa8d833b77b0e12731\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: He said that it was his responsibility to ensure the lights do not go out in New Zealand. Well, I say to Mr Parker that they did, and he has failed. The tragedy in all this is that Labour has to take responsibility for the situation, because it has been warned so often. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EEngineers have repeatedly said that our creaking electricity infrastructure is just not up to the grade. Last year\u2014over 16 months ago\u2014Dr Keith Turner, who has a PhD in electricity transmission and happens to be the chief executive of New Zealand\u2019s largest electricity company, stated: \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s electricity grid is so overworked that some lines cannot be taken out of action for servicing.\u201D That situation is just unheard of in the Western World. At the Commerce Committee National asked Dr Turner what lines he was referring to and he said, quite specifically, they were the lines at \u014Ct\u0101huhu that service Auckland. What did the Government do about it? It did absolutely nothing. But that is not all that was said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EOn Campbell Live Dr Turner said: \u201CWe are running just too close to the wind in this country, particularly on transmission.\u201D We could not have had more prophetic words. And what was Minister Parker\u2019s response to those concerns from Keith Turner? He said: \u201CThe problem is not as bad as the member and others believe.\u201D Well, I ask the Minister, how bad is it when 700,000 people lose their power? Then we had warnings in the briefings to the incoming Government from Treasury and the Ministry of Economic Development. Both specifically mentioned concerns about transmission. We had the Commerce Committee report from last year, which stated that lines could not be serviced because transmission was right at the limits of capacity, and again Auckland was specifically mentioned. So we have a paper trail from State-owned enterprises, from select committees, and from independent commentators all warning the Government that it had a problem\u2014and it did nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EToday we should also scrutinise what the Minister\u2019s response has been in the last few hours. On TV3, Mr Parker said that the \u014Ct\u0101huhu to Pakuranga and Penrose upgrade was not only under consideration but was also approved. Well, was it approved? No, it was not. That Minister misled. The very specific words he used last night were: \u201CThat line has been approved.\u201D It was not. There is no budget for it. There is not even a Resource Management Act application for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E The Minister went on to say\u2014as reported in the New Zealand Herald this morning\u2014that he had asked Transpower to investigate separating out parts of the \u014Ct\u0101huhu station under its plan to upgrade transmission into Auckland after 2013. Are the people of Auckland prepared to wait around until 2013 to fix this problem? Let me make it very plain that National does not believe that we can wait until 2013 to fix this problem. As Keith Turner said last year, National wants \u201Call black\u201D to refer to who takes the Rugby World Cup, not the state of the city of Auckland. Nor is it sufficient for the Minister to try to explain himself by saying that the Government is committing tens of millions of dollars to upgrade the transmission system. The reality is that the Government has taken over $2 billion in profits from electricity companies and has spent less than one-tenth of that sum on new investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EYesterday\u2019s power failure also exposes the failure of the Government\u2019s whole energy policy. Pete Hodgson should be in the House today. In 2001 he said\u2014with all the bells, whistles, and spin\u2014that we needed his flash new National Energy Efficiency and Conservation Strategy. The Government said it was better to spend money on reducing electricity demand than on transmission or new generation. It spent $100 million on that energy efficiency strategy. Do members know how much has been achieved\u2014how much has been saved? Well, in the March review this year the Government showed that the \u201Cimproved\u201D energy efficiency since it brought in the energy efficiency strategy and spent the $100 million was worse than energy efficiency was when we did not have a strategy. The Government was banking on a 20 percent improvement in energy efficiency, so it did not bother spending money on new generation or new transmission, which is why we are so deeply in a pickle today. The reason is that the Government\u2019s whole energy policy approach has been a failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us go through it and see how badly Labour\u2019s energy policy has delivered. Over the last 6 years we have seen a 40 percent increase in the average price of power. At the same time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022961c00c0c6174060a909bd26c3643c96\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: So deregulation works, does it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022924837171b994c889e04fa63be7784e0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Annette King chips in. I tell her that when the Government introduced its energy reforms in 2002 it said the policy had three aims. The first was keeping the price of electricity as low as possible. The price has since gone up by 40 percent. The second objective was to use more renewable energy. The Government has failed on that front, because the amount of renewable energy we are using has actually been in decline. The Government\u2019s third aim, in relation to its electricity reforms, was to improve the security of supply. It has not done that\u2014as 700,000 people in Auckland found out yesterday. And today the Prime Minister said that this issue is not damaging New Zealand\u2019s investment reputation. That is garbage! Dick Hubbard was absolutely correct to say that the power cut was \u201Cvery, very damaging\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe key question is what National would do to get our electricity system right. National says that the very first thing to do is to invest in our infrastructure. We should be investing in roads and investing properly in electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second key thing, we say, is to reform the Resource Management Act. The Government puts its head in the sand and pretends that the Act will enable us to build the infrastructure our country so desperately needs. It will not. Transpower has said\u2014in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005\u2014that it cannot maintain and upgrade the grid without reform of the Resource Management Act. I say to David Parker and the Prime Minister, who have refused to reform the Resource Management Act, that they are signing New Zealand up to more blackouts like the one we had yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe third issue we need to address is the confusing and failed electricity policies Labour introduced in 2002. What sort of nonsense do we have when transmission decisions are made not only by Transpower but also by the Electricity Commission and the Commerce Commission? Everybody knows that those reforms are a failure. We need a clarification of the roles of those agencies. National says we need a single agency to be responsible for ensuring that the transmission system can keep the lights on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I will make is that I believe and National believes, as Don Brash suggested last year, that it is time we had a ministry of infrastructure. The Government has so neglected the infrastructure of New Zealand that\u2014I never thought I would say it\u2014Auckland\u2019s electricity system is as bad as its roads, and that is a disgrace. Labour got rid of the Ministry of Works and the Ministry of Energy. National\u2019s view is that we need a ministry of infrastructure to make sure that we properly plan and provide for infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI say again that what occurred in Auckland yesterday was a national disgrace. It was a disgrace for this country to have 700,000 people without power. It was a disgrace that we lost $70 million worth of economic activity. Responsibility for that disgrace rests fairly and squarely with the Government. It has neglected our infrastructure, neglected the legislation, ignored Transpower, and ignored multiple warnings that the system was on the blink. It relied on a vague, warm, fuzzy energy efficiency strategy that did not work. The people of New Zealand, and particularly Auckland, are paying for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that he must accept responsibility for his mess. Last night on TV the Minister made an analogy with the state of Queensland. In the state of Queensland the power cut involved only 250,000 people, and the relevant Minister resigned. If this Minister wants to follow the example of Queensland he should tender his resignation, because he, Trevor Mallard, and Pete Hodgson have failed to listen to the proper warnings and have let New Zealand down. It is a disgrace. This country deserves better. Sadly, it will not get that until we have a change of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229c8b106e56be4c0db29438b3160ce2b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c8b106e56be4c0db29438b3160ce2b7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E That was the voice of the modern National Party. Don Brash is an Auckland member. Why could he not speak? The rumour is that he was so busy consulting the Business Roundtable yesterday that he did not notice that the lights went out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThat was the voice of the modern National Party, and it is one of the reasons why Ministers on this side are not even bothering to learn the names of the back-benchers opposite. When they have leadership on a serious issue like that from a member like Nick Smith, we ask why they bother. Why could they not get a competent member, or an Auckland member\u2014one of the two\u2014to put the letter in? Why did Nick Smith not start his speech by saying that when he was a Minister, Auckland went 35 long days without power under the reforms of the National Government and its management and governance rules for the electricity system? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ELet us get the facts straight. At 8.32 yesterday morning an earthing cable broke. Why did it break? We do not know. It could have been one of two reasons, or a combination of both. It might have been wind. If Gerry Brownlee was around, it was almost certainly wind. It might have been poor maintenance. My view is that in the end the investigation will show that it was a combination of both, because even with the sorts of winds we had in Auckland yesterday, a properly maintained earthing cable should not break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThen what happened was that the earthing cable wrapped around two lines. One part of it hit the 110 kilovolt line out of the substation, earthed that, and the other hit the 220 kilovolt line out of the same substation, damaging that, as well. That meant that power\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478e6449a33f43618d85cf71e49ff943\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How could that happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1651b1be51347b0a3f1c1b317bb4a6d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, relatively simply. The cable broke. One bit hit the 110 kilovolt line and another bit hit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258062fc6037f40aa8a24200264768426\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Auckland powered by one cable!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf831ed5a96640848fc652ae49772108\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, Auckland was de-powered by one cable. The member cannot tell the difference between powering and de-powering, which is an indication of why he is the deputy leader. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d128d45f92348e9931ad286aea8d28c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234c4278b846b451aa3e2b7bd2621e436\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am quite happy to have their interjections. We do not need the level of protection that you are attempting here. Transpower is now investigating why that cable broke. We will have an answer to that\u2014a report on the Minister\u2019s desk\u2014within 2 weeks. He has already written to Transpower requiring that, and that report will be reviewed by an expert who is independent of Transpower.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d8e32829364ffa9efd9255ef789a65\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: More committees, no action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c84baaf9d994852870e2e779fd92a47\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a committee, actually. It is one report and someone will review it for the facts. I want to be very careful saying this about a State-owned enterprise for which I am responsible, but I would prefer to have Transpower\u2019s report reviewed independently than to rely totally on Transpower\u2019s views about what happened. I think it is important that an independent expert checks the Transpower report that will be coming out in the next 2 weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe next thing that has to happen is that there must be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226694c341ae9f4783ba5b4db4c7e96181\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you speaking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e09b1fb318a1493986b131c307a86bc4\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I just happen to be the ownership Minister for Transpower. It is something that is vaguely important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419053a9503741ffac2df8979c0a2d56\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that old problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e24ec8fa9274057883b6f78cd9e571b\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Tau Henare is chipping in. Why did they not put Tau up? I see, they wanted a sober member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226581c074f0534f24ac709af075862896\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2572e5a4d27434190148fff50108043\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is unacceptable that a Minister who is unable to give answers to the House should resort to the sort of comment that Trevor Mallard just made. I think that if he reflects on it himself he will not be objectionable and he will choose to withdraw and apologise for that most unparliamentary remark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f601d2e53604850a740dd93d745b080\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Can I just say, Mr Brownlee, that members make disparaging remarks about each other all the time. It is a personal reflection that is out of order. If the member himself had chosen to take exception I would have intervened. The member himself did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c6df8d080d442089489b0b31bedd939\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: He did, and I am happy to withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c72b88d5ec584acdb1844ac6931219df\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200df9a4989e74bea9faba21f5964ac13\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is clear why the National Opposition did not put up Tau Henare. It did not put him up because he cannot make a sober argument. National did not want Nick Smith or Tau Henare. The person who should have spoken\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df83c9354014718a79a54555446b7ce\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s Tuku\u2019s diary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b72277bf68324d949192ae02afa84c41\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Tuku\u2019s diary? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad24934423704ee8b7731bbf59313130\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e84f95ad33564d2892b7bc9db9817fb5\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: When is Tuku going to pay his legal bills? The member\u2019s brother-in-law has $50,000 worth of legal bills. I am being diverted, Madam Speaker, and I will stop from being diverted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1c70fb995f34dd98a998c53d0475066\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a2967cf956e460bb45c7d9faa953d1d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022485091c75b1543b0b6f11a83c25ce5d3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab224e23361a42b38f0ca736a14af081\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is important that we remember that this Government has been putting more investment into infrastructure than any other Government has in the past. I accept that in the area of electricity infrastructure we progressed at a faster rate than National, but not nearly fast enough, and that is the case here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI do not know whether there is a systemic problem as far as Auckland\u2019s electricity infrastructure is concerned. I know that there is in relation to the routes into Auckland\u2014there is no doubt about that. I am not an expert and I do not know whether there is a systemic problem in Auckland. If there is, it will be fixed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a839598f1b34995b1bd86473b1e5819\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: When?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f805e5da3077491284d1f11a35a4bd65\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It will be fixed, depending on its size, as soon as possible and with the investment that is necessary. This Government has made it clear to Transpower that the Government\u2019s dividend requirements do not override the important capital expenditure that it is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EHowever, one point that should be made is that this is the first grid-related blackout in Auckland since 1998. It was not a 35-day blackout of the sort that occurred then. It does not mean that we have a Third World power system. I just ask people to work\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8591b54410643a0a81d2693777edf53\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what Keith Turner said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70b8813d7e04c3ba762e4c98f28f682\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That is what who said? I think that until the member gets his voice back he had better loosen something off or just settle down somewhat. Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2df9da718c64ac997680bcda7957005\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5066cc3cfbc4504858556fa5ac597ac\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, Madam Speaker. You are acting for her. Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267291ff99c664d2b8762101c22d0adcf\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please desist and continue with his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281d9d36916864eea992918ae560a1bb0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022229d70a0c5764a7192f30b97ba0c6806\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You just asked the Minister to desist from referring to you as \u201CMadam Speaker\u201D. That is a perfectly reasonable request, given that you are a bloke. Immediately the Minister got to his feet he again referred to you as \u201CMadam Speaker\u201D. I think you should call this Minister, who has been doing everything he can to avoid debating the issue, back to the point and to comply with your ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223392b8ddb88b4a4593d1098c64365f17\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: It was in the heat of the moment, and I understand where the member is coming from. I ask the Minister to desist and to continue with the debate in the proper manner. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ce64dabcd64b36af908c3ebbe8c51d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Acting Deputy Assistant Speaker\u2014is that right? Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b9e78800f654514bf36707932b36470\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take grave exception to that Minister\u2019s insult to the Speaker. You are the Speaker while in that Chair, Mr Assistant Speaker, and I think that insult is a grave reflection on this entire House. I believe that you would have the support of the entire House to demand that Trevor Mallard withdraw and apologise to you\u2014and, indeed, to the entire House\u2014unreservedly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c8f00c0ef346088b9a9b9a571174d4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I inform Mr Mallard that when I am in the Chair I am the Speaker. I would like him to look at Standing Order 28. I expect him to stop trifling with the Chair and to refer to me by my correct title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc01527b0d8844d48dc8f61faeddd0e5\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Deputy Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295c99e9870984a20ab8180204be6234a\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f95f6b4c1447c28c3c1da0a712752f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I thank the member. Mr Mallard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e87a4cc96ea49c39d48988ef45b85c3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry\u2014Mr Assistant Speaker. I will get it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e55cfad02a94b58bbd367f537853863\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member please be seated. I suggest to him that while I am on my feet he might like to look at Standing Order 28. For his benefit I will read out the relevant paragraph: \u201C(2) An Assistant Speaker performs the duties and exercises the authority of the Speaker while presiding over the House.\u201D That means that when anyone is sitting in this Chair, whether the Deputy Speaker or the Assistant Speaker, that person is referred to as \u201Cthe Speaker\u201D. I would expect a member with the long standing of that member, who has been a Minister for some considerable time, to know better and to show some leadership and courtesy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ff03dae8c1d47128dd53f58de67d85a\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5355d240793435ab33f24096a6aa73c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that I have dealt with the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779c29c249ea4581b0153f0234d31f70\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not think you understand the point I was trying to make. We have a situation where a senior Minister of this Government has attempted to insult and intimidate the Speaker. That is an attack on the entire House. I say to you that I take grave exception to that. I told you\u2014and I do not think there was a murmur of dissent\u2014that we expect you to ask Mr Mallard to withdraw and apologise to the entire House for his behaviour here this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225694e968e1994b009de71caf5c16ef23\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that I was not intimidated. I have dealt with the issue, and members cannot reopen it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227510ee0147cc43d6bff33e96eacd12db\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is\u2014[Interruption] No, I am making it absolutely clear to members opposite that I do not share their views on some matters. Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f927a6e3dd641d6af3779c781489d3e\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Gutless!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9e4aa8216d2471e8547add9df846173\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I heard that. The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise. He knows that the use of that word implies someone lacks courage, and that is out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae29899613cf4e06904f21281d57d7cd\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e897465eeb08406bae614877fd828ad7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, he was probably referring to Gerry Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to investing in infrastructure. There has never been the level of investment put into transmission and into generating infrastructure over such a short period of time as is occurring right now. If one looks at the wind farms being put in and at the preparations for the Transpower cables through the Waikato, one can see that major investment is occurring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIt is clear to every member in this House that what occurred yesterday in Auckland\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cde770fa03ce480dac9421e655610971\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Was a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc13aa8c635461ead670ede0403ecc1\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014was disgraceful and unacceptable. It was clearly the case of infrastructure being either not strong enough or not properly maintained. We will have a report from Transpower within 2 weeks, which will be independently reviewed and acted upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7b4eb7809d14db39bbdea8859f27305\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7b4eb7809d14db39bbdea8859f27305\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Let me start by alerting this House to the fact that if members want to play politics with this issue, then we are doing ourselves no good whatsoever. A number of questions were asked this afternoon that were to some degree flippant. We had allegations made against the Rt Hon Winston Peters that were totally untrue, and I would like to dispel them right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b4ea1888c284869906d8184b1d87cfe\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Prove it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b329f7f498ce46b8804251358cbc810e\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Henare that this is the copy of the speech that Nick Smith wanted initially to table\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c2a8489696e4fa984070968a181f1ce\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How do you know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289f549401f3f4439a4449cb803863666\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: How do I know? I know because he came across and gave it to me. That is how I know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff97951516514c7fa356e1b22fa4fba7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to ask this member to stick to the debate in front of us. The debate is an urgent debate so that Parliament might express its views on the crisis that occurred in Auckland yesterday as a result of a Transpower failure at one of its plants. For Mr Brown to get up and start reading a 1998 speech from Winston Peters, I think, stretches it in a way that makes us look silly. He has just asked us to put politics aside and to start debating the issues. I think you should invite him to do exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d4836200b9488ab18584ab4c0beeb4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for drawing it to my attention and suggest that under Speakers\u2019 ruling 44/3 people are given some leeway when they first start. The member can bring that speech into the debate, providing he makes it relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201c440c9143d44ae98a37f659e684eac\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I can assure you it is relevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI want to read a couple of extracts from Winston Peters\u2019 speech. He said: \u201CThe Government is doing all that it can in this crisis. The Minister of Energy has done all that he can in this crisis. Every alternative source of energy has been looked at, and we are still looking at alternative ways of helping the Auckland situation.\u201D He goes on to say: \u201CI will tell the member what our policy is.\u201D\u2014I remind members he is talking about a New Zealand First - National coalition Government\u2014\u201CWe are going to have an inquiry. That is No. 1. We are going to have an inquiry because the people of Auckland want one.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe reason I raise those statements is that they are relevant today. Nothing, really, has improved for Auckland people, in particular, since 1998, and nobody should be sitting here chastising one side or the other of the House. Collectively, we have missed the boat. As I listen to National members I can hear that they still do not have a clue on how to address the electricity problems we are facing in this country. If they listen for a little while, I will tell them exactly what needs to be done. First and foremost, we need a good deal more electricity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241f6c6fb626b494b958e8a1513e05eb9\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022104efb54d1e547e6b8a1766c198f6e3d\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The member is nodding his head. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ESecondly, we need greater investment in the industry. Thirdly, we need to be able to guarantee security of supply. Finally, we want a competitive environment so that prices are fair, reasonable, and competitive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EAuckland itself needs power from more than one route, and from more than one wire. It is not good enough to have, in the 21st century, a majority of the power coming in from one route. We need greater investment. I listened to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises with interest, and it saddened me that he got on to so many sidetracks that I thought he did himself a disservice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ETranspower pays the Government a dividend, which was $10 million last year, and $40 million the year before. New Zealand First will be encouraging the Government to forgo that dividend and reinvest it, in particular, in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E Electricity is a very important commodity for the average New Zealander and for New Zealand businesses. If we take a closer look at what happened yesterday we see that people were jammed in lifts and calling out the fire brigade, conditions were as black as pitch so that people could not see anything and did not know where they were, people were having to walk down 28 flights of stairs, it was freezing cold, and businesses were closing up and sending people home. We are told by Business New Zealand that businesses lost $50 million - plus in takings. That is how serious the problem is. That is the issue is that we have to deal with\u2014and we have to deal with it in some urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIt is small satisfaction to say this was a blackout of some hours only, whilst in 1998 the blackout lasted 35 days. That is a non-issue\u2014the blackout should not have occurred. I do not know how it occurred or exactly why it occurred. A wire snapped and entangled itself around other wires, and blew the whole of Auckland into a blackout. Frankly, that is the issue we should address with a degree of urgency, because it is not acceptable for New Zealand\u2019s foremost city, in terms of size and population, to have a blackout just because a strong gale is blowing and a wire breaks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe will have to bring in power from a number of sources and a number of areas, and we will have to give consideration to having more generation produced locally in Auckland. I know the Government is very keen on wind power, and New Zealand First will support an encouragement of wind power. But we are also sitting on billions of tonnes of coal in this country, so we believe we should be examining coal as an option for producing electricity at a reasonable price for New Zealanders. There is potential up north with the Marsden B power station, and there is potential elsewhere in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe can all go on television or talk on the radio, and we can ratchet the issue up, but at the end of the day New Zealanders want us to address it with absolute urgency. We can ask people to write reports\u2014we can have reports ad infinitum\u2014but unless we actually get down to investing in our energy industries, then this problem will occur time and time again. It might not happen next year, but it could well do so\u2014or it could even happen next week, given the way the weather is going in this country. But, ultimately, unless we get more power\u2014particularly coming into Auckland\u2014from a variety of sources and routes, we will face more and more problems in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe should be looking at all the options of generating electricity. Hydro generation produces 60 percent - plus of our electricity, and gas something like 22 percent. Coal produces a measly 8 percent and, as I said earlier, we should be making greater use of the billions of tonnes of coal this country has at its fingertips. The wind produces a modest 2 percent of our power, yet the Government is hell-bent on developing wind energy. New Zealand First applauds that, but wind is not the only source of energy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThis is a crisis that should not have occurred; this event should have been identified as a possibility years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231c56afc02d1497f93e8a961023430e7\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: It was\u2014Keith Turner pointed it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dd764af4e624e3fb031be19fc804260\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Keith Turner might have pointed it out, but Winston Peters pointed it out in 1998.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e0ec69ba94548089f462be1635c8a48\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: No, he didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e056fab96f6847979f0985fd64a71c16\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Winston never mentioned Transpower in \u201998.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223959fa031ba84ea3ac984dcafda2f4cc\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: He pointed out in 1998 that we had to do something. It is no good those National members screaming their heads off, because this is an issue we have sat on in Parliament. We cannot rely just on Keith Turner\u2019s words; we have known of the problem for some time. We knew when the Labour Government produced that electricity legislation last term that it was not going to fully address the issue. New Zealand First is on record as voting against those bills because of that very situation. We did not believe that the legislation in this country was coming to terms with the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe have to take this problem seriously, and there must be moves afoot to address the issue within a relatively short time frame. I can assure the House that New Zealand First will cooperate with any willing party that wants to solve this problem to the benefit and advantage of New Zealanders, but to sit here and play politics with the issue is not the way to get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022899faa17657c48019ba4be5a30c5816c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022899faa17657c48019ba4be5a30c5816c\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Green Party, I would like to take a brief call to say it is really nonsense that we are having to have an urgent debate in the House today on the Auckland power cut yesterday. That is not to say that it was not a very serious situation that arose. I lived through the 1998 Auckland power crisis, trying to keep a large organisation afloat for weeks without power while providing medical services to thousands of people with a generator out on the footpath. So I am well aware of how difficult it is, and my sympathy goes out to all the people and businesses that suffered yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EBut I think it should be obvious to all of us in this House that it is not viable to have a power supply system that is invulnerable to freak events. To have a duplication of all systems supplying power to Auckland, much less to the rest of New Zealand, would be prohibitively expensive. All countries, even those much wealthier than us, have electricity outages at times that are caused by freak or abnormal weather events. Building a 400 kilovolt line through the Waikato, for example, would not have prevented what happened yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, we obviously do need some urgent analysis that can identify the weak points in the system\u2014not just the one that happened yesterday but others as well, which I feel sure exist\u2014in order to look at how those can be strengthened and improved. Obviously, we should also look at how maintenance of the lines can be improved. From what the Minister has said just now, I understand that a report is expected very urgently from Transpower\u2014within 2 weeks\u2014and that there will be a review by an independent expert. I also understand from the Government that, on its part, urgent action will be taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ETranspower must ensure that its lines are maintained properly, and that they are adequate for the large loads they are carrying into our largest city. There should be more buffers in the system, where possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWe accept that the Government has taken urgent action and is going as fast as it can to ensure the reliability of Auckland\u2019s supply. I also think that those of us in the House\u2014all of us here as MPs\u2014and others, should accept that we are ordinary mortals, and that we cannot control the weather. We have to accept that at times weather events happen that are completely out of our control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022c84419fe295e441f9601697cdcb3fa0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c84419fe295e441f9601697cdcb3fa0d\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I say, from the outset, that I was a victim yesterday. My electorate office was plunged into darkness at 8:30 a.m., and my staff and I sat in the dark trying to work anything we could with a pen and paper until about 1 o\u2019clock. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EBut the question all members of the adoring drive time audience stuck on Auckland roads will be asking right now\u2014the question people right across the Auckland isthmus will be asking right now\u2014is where is the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues? Where is she in a debate that is about Auckland\u2019s power failure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c007a6d36194e19b5888175293f25ee\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: I am here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221108f4898b4e4d298912b4588a961f19\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, she is in the House; I am not saying she is absent. But when will we hear from her about what she is doing, because\u2014let us see, it was a power crisis, and it was in Auckland? Does that seem to suggest that it might involve the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues? Where is the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues? She is here in the House, but from her there has been not a mutter, not a murmur, not a whisper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI heard the member from New Zealand First get up and say we should not be making politics out of this issue. Well, it was Winston Peters during question time who tried to make some cheap politics. My colleague Nick Smith brought him straight back into his bottle when he suggested he read from the Minister\u2019s speech of 1998\u2014which I have here but which was unable to be tabled. I will quote from it, though, because Mr Peters went on about what a good job the then Government was doing. He said: \u201CThe Government is doing all that it can in this crisis. The Minister of Energy has done all that he can in this crisis.\u201D He went on to say: \u201CI am proud of that and so are members of the coalition.\u201D He said: \u201CWe in this Government will not sit around making petty, lousy little political points of the type emanating from the other side.\u201D He also said: \u201CWe will get our priorities right, unlike Labour members who, guilty as sin, stand here trying to find a political angle. The people of Auckland and the businesses of Auckland are owed better than that.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThat is what Mr Peters said back then, and let us get it clear why there is a significant difference between then and now, because Labour, in its typical blurring of the margins, has tried to say: \u201COh, well, look, this was only for 5 hours; back then National caused one for 5 weeks, or whatever it was\u2014that is right; 5 weeks; 5 times 7 is 35. Well, let us get it clear so that the adoring drive time audience knows the difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe big problem back in 1998 was a company called Mercury Energy\u2014it has now become Vector. It was a separate company that was not owned by the Government or controlled by the Government; it was actually controlled by a consumers\u2019 trust in Auckland. It was the failure of Mercury Energy\u2014the lines company that was not in the Minister\u2019s ambit, not a State-owned Enterprise, and not controlled by the Government\u2014to invest in new lines and new equipment that actually caused the 1998 blackout. It is quite clear the Minister in charge had no say. No Minister in this House had the powers to direct a private operation that was owned by a consumers\u2019 trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWell, was that the case yesterday? Is there a difference? Yes, there is. Because this tiny little wire that broke yesterday\u2014the pathetic little strand that members can see in this picture\u2014is part of the Government\u2019s operation called Transpower. That is the difference. That is the way the responsibilities lie. I will never hold a Minister in this House responsible for an organisation he or she is not in charge of. The Ministers in this House are not in charge of what is now Vector\u2014what was Mercury Energy\u2014and never will be. But the Ministers in this House are responsible for Transpower. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWhat have we heard? We heard people such as Dr Keith Turner telling us in February of last year that there were serious problems with one small wire carrying everything, and the company could not do maintenance on it because it was so integral to Auckland\u2019s supply. Dr Turner specifically identified the \u014Ct\u0101huhu substation as the problem. So it is not a case of: \u201COh goodness, what happened yesterday? We didn\u2019t know this could happen.\u201D The Government was warned of it last year. It is a Government-owned agency, unlike in 1998 when it was not the responsibility of the Government, and I thank Winston Peters for telling us all that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EToday I saw a letter that was written just under 2 weeks\u2019 ago by the chief executive of Vector. Let me quote this letter, which the Government should have been listening to for some time. \u201CWithout wanting to be alarmist, I think I should put on record our concerns. We think that crunch time\u2014the point where demand can exceed peak capacity\u2014may be closer than the Electricity Commission assumptions because the system is already under some pressure. Little new transmission has been built since the 1980s, but electricity use has been rising exponentially on the back of strong population growth, strong economic growth, and rising living standards.\u201D The Minister has been getting that sort of advice from so many different quarters for so long that it is unacceptable for him to now come to the Parliament and say: \u201COh gosh, a wire snapped and brought the economic powerhouse of this country\u201D\u2014the place that Dr Cullen calls a dead weight on New Zealand\u2019s shoulders, but I do not believe that Auckland is that\u2014\u201Cto a standstill.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI know a number of businesses that lost a lot of money. Will they get some compensation? Will the Government tell businesses that lost money by having to pay staff to go home and take the day off that it was a Government agency\u2019s fault\u2014it was Transpower\u2019s failure\u2014and compensate them? No, of course it will not. It should, but it will not. Then the Minister had the audacity to bring up an example about Brisbane and what happened there! Well, let us look at what happened in Brisbane. Far fewer people were affected, and guess what? The Minister resigned because of it. So I think the Minister is dead right. We should take Brisbane as a good example; we should go by the letter of the Brisbane example. The Minister should tender his resignation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI am telling this House that not having some sort of a back-up, a redundancy, or an alternative switching mechanism is simply as stupid as flying a Boeing 747 without a second set of controls\u2014because if that set goes out of control, the captain would have to say: \u201CSorry passengers, we\u2019ve only got the one steering wheel, it\u2019s broken, and we\u2019re going to die.\u201D That is what is stupid about the Auckland arrangement, and it has been for some time. The Minister has been warned of that in all the advice I have seen going to him. Keith Turner was very clear. The Minister says: \u201COh well, I don\u2019t accept it, I don\u2019t accept his advice.\u201D He should tell that to the little restaurateur across the road from me who lost his entire day\u2019s takings yesterday. Maybe my colleague is right. He has just passed me a note saying: \u201CMinisters can\u2019t actually resign twice in the same year\u2014that might be a rule around here\u2014so he will have to wait until next year to resign.\u201D I say it is not acceptable for the Minister to say he did not know, because he has been briefed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EIt is not acceptable to say it was a once-in-a-lifetime occasion. I tell members that the storm in Auckland yesterday was not the worst storm I have been through in Auckland by a long way. I have been through a number of storms in Auckland, and as a local member I have gone to see various houses in my electorate that have lost their roofs. Not a single roof came off yesterday. I have seen a number of trees come down. About 2 years ago a massive tree fell across the Pakuranga highway and workers had to get chainsaws to cut it up as fast as they could to get the traffic flowing again. It did not matter because the traffic was blocked up on the motorway and could not get through anyway! That is what happened in a storm 2 years ago, and 3 years ago there was a real cracker of a storm. Yesterday there were just strong winds. It was not a one in 100-year storm; it was not even a one in 20-year storm. It was probably about a one in 6-months storm. During most beginnings of winter, as the southerly swell starts and the barometer drops, we get those sorts of winds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI tell the Minister to look at this picture. For this pathetic little shoestring wire to snap and bring Auckland to a standstill is an outrage. It is a Government responsibility\u2014it is the responsibility of Transpower, which is owned and operated by the Government, and of the Ministers who approve capital expenditure in the Government and who have the say. It is not like 1998 when a completely separate entity, which no Government Minister had any responsibility for, had the say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI want to know when the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues will get up and tell us what sort of Cabinet paper she will be drawing up, because we have seen a lot of coverage on the TV in the last week about Cabinet papers she draws up. We will be looking to see the Cabinet paper from the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues about what she believes. Because I do not think there is a bigger issue in Auckland. I know that transport is bigger on most days, but right now Aucklanders are saying: \u201CActually, we don\u2019t worry about transport if we can\u2019t get there.\u201D Let me give a final warning: at the next Rugby World Cup people will not be worried about the fog blocking one\u2019s view. If the lights are out, the games will be played in the dark! It is grossly unacceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00228b4cf146f4174fcbaa57753d006012bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b4cf146f4174fcbaa57753d006012bd\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare. The M\u0101ori Party rises today to speak of the outrage of our constituents in homes and businesses throughout the greater T\u0101maki-makau-rau and Tainui region who were plunged into chaos yesterday through a major power blackout. A blackout caused by a failure at Transpower\u2019s \u014Ct\u0101huhu substation caused chaos in the central business district, which affected an estimated 700,000 people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe must make every effort to secure New Zealand\u2019s power supply. The M\u0101ori Party has been speaking ever since its establishment about the need to develop an energy strategy for Aotearoa to ensure the best use of the available resources. We have raised our concerns about the fragility of a city\u2019s power supply and the need to take responsibility for ensuring New Zealand\u2019s future in a low-energy, sustainable world. There is one thing that no one can deny: weather issues will always present risks. But we do not need to take the risk of just crossing our fingers and hoping we are prepared. We need to plan for the ever-present threat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThis is not just a trivial matter, ripe for personality politics, as we have seen already in this debate. This was literally a case of life and death, with Auckland City Hospital and Middlemore Hospital operating for emergencies only. The Auckland District Health Board has confirmed that during the power outage, the emergency department had to turn people away. Some elective surgery was postponed due to the crisis. And what have we had here this afternoon? Accusations of alcohol use by members. Is that really how low the debate has become? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe crisis yesterday was a case of business and investment strangulation. Let me remind this House of the grim facts of yesterday. The Employers and Manufacturers Association has stated that the outage was unacceptable and Transpower must fully investigate it. The Auckland chamber of commerce said that an alternative supply line is needed. Alex Swney, from the business promotion group Heart of the City, said that uncertainty over the power supply risks Auckland\u2019s status as an international city. There was physical, environmental, economic, and social desperation\u2014and what has the Government been saying? It has been making allegations and accusations regarding who should speak in this debate and the legal bills of former MPs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EMany in the House have had enough of the frivolous way in which these matters are being dealt with. Less than 5 years ago the nation and, in particular, the nations of Ng\u0101puhi were devastated at the fires in Kaikohe and Herekino, which it appears were started from candles. Both houses involved were without electricity, and the occupants had turned to candles for alternative sources of light. In the aftermath of those tragedies, Northland Ng\u0101puhi leader Sonny Tau called for urgent talks with the Minister of Housing, describing the houses of hundreds of Northland people as death traps. So we have already had that fatal experience in the north whereby families had no power and lost their lives. That experience provides a solemn warning to all members when considering what could have happened as a result of yesterday\u2019s power outage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI absolutely agree with the honourable member who spoke earlier in the debate and urged us not to be flippant and not to play politics. It is critical that we prepare now for a pending energy crisis. We must work together as a nation, in a collaborative approach, to set up a time line for action, and we must do that in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ELast year the M\u0101ori Party proposed the establishment of a cross-party parliamentary commission. We believed that this commission would signal that Parliament was prepared to take a collaborative, united approach towards the most critical issue facing our future sustainability. We need to be innovative, to look at wind generation, to look at alternative sources of supply, and to work together for the good of our nation. Yesterday, when I heard the chair of the Electricity Commission, Roy Hemmingway, suggest that he will talk with Government agencies and Transpower about how to proceed with an inquiry into the power crisis, I was heartened. When we talked about the cross-party parliamentary commission, we suggested that it should have the facility to co-opt independent advisers, such as the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, or to have representation from specialist groups, such as the Sustainable Energy Forum. We need to pull together our best brains\u2014our most creative energy\u2014to guarantee that the power supply can be secured throughout all of Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EOne of the brightest moments of an otherwise bleak crisis occurred when a young Auckland town planning student, responding to the desperate calls for help from senior citizens who were trying to negotiate the traffic, stepped up to the challenge, walked out into the middle of the road, and started to direct traffic. I admire his initiative and courage in trying to do what he could to assist the community\u2014and, in particular, vulnerable members of our society\u2014in a time of crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI call today for all members of the House to rise up to that same challenge\u2014to stride out into the storm, and to think about how we can work together to ensure that sustainable energy is generated and sustained for the future needs of all the peoples of Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5eadb21b52e4e1abdbb6911c2ce9c5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5eadb21b52e4e1abdbb6911c2ce9c5a\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The Helen Clark Government has failed Auckland, and, sadly, having the opportunity of an urgent debate on the chaos inflicted on Auckland yesterday, the lead Minister, Mr Trevor Mallard, never once addressed the issue. He did everything he could to talk about everything else, including bringing this House into grave disrepute. He did anything to avoid discussing the issue and what the Government\u2019s response would be. Auckland is the only city to have its own Minister\u2014we have a Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues. That Minister has not spoken here today. The Government failed Auckland when the power crisis occurred, but it is failing Auckland and the country again by its complete failure to give an adequate response. Auckland roads are clogged, and yesterday the city was plunged into darkness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EIt is bad enough that one earth wire could shut down Auckland\u2019s power supply and shut down Auckland, but what is astonishing is that it took an entire day to restore power to large chunks of the city. I would have thought that members of a Government that cared\u2014a Government that was actually interested in helping the country\u2014would be here today to take the opportunity to outline what they are doing. Did we hear one thing? No. All we heard was Trevor Mallard hurling abuse at everyone\u2014including his own colleague the Assistant Speaker\u2014and saying that there will be an inquiry to find out what happened. The reality is that there is no surprise about what happened in Auckland yesterday. This Parliament, Ministers, select committees, and the public had been warned of this issue for months, if not years. Our infrastructure did not get into the mess it is in overnight. It takes years to run down infrastructure to the extent that ours is now run down. It is so run down that an earth wire can flip in a slight storm and blank out our largest city for a day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Energy has refused to accept any responsibility. The Minister of Energy has spoken in this Chamber as though the situation were a big surprise, yet he was told of the problem by experts such as Keith Turner. What was David Parker\u2019s response back then? It was: \u201COh, it\u2019s not that bad.\u201D That is typical of the spin from this Government. There has been a failure to deal with the facts, and a failure to deal with the issues, so Auckland and the country suffer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWe heard from Mr Peter Brown of New Zealand First about what needs to happen. That was a constructive input to this debate. We do need more energy supplies, but that means actually having a planning system\u2014a resource management system\u2014that allows our energy resources to be developed. Mr Brown said we needed more investment\u2014that means having secure property rights, whereby if people invest in New Zealand, the investment is safe and will not be pinched from them, as happened in respect of this Government and Telecom, when $3 billion of shareholder value was pinched. Mr Brown said we needed security of supply. That is true; that is an issue for the Government and the people of New Zealand. Again, we have heard nothing from this Government. Mr Brown said we needed a competitive pricing system so we can afford the energy. That, too, is true. After the chaos that occurred in our largest city, would it not be nice to have Government members who were prepared to come to this House to explain what they are doing to address those issues? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00229aeb0c7b9f344b508533e18fe16a1823\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aeb0c7b9f344b508533e18fe16a1823\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E I will just respond to one point that Mr Hide made. I did not disagree with Mr Turner\u2019s comments; I disagreed with Dr Smith\u2019s characterisation of them. Turning to the issues today, what happened yesterday has been well traversed in this debate. An earth wire broke and flipped on to the \u014Ct\u0101huhu substation. The question the Government is asking is why the wider system could not cope with that line failure. There is another question as to whether the line was properly maintained, and I am sure that will be answered in due course, but the more important question is why the system did not cope with that line failure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI will say another thing about that. One of the first questions on this issue that was put to me in this House was whether I recognise that it is my responsibility and the Government\u2019s responsibility to keep the lights on. The answer is yes. I have made those comments previously, and I made them again today. That is to be contrasted with the position taken by Mr Williamson some minutes ago. Even now, after all of the events years ago when we had a 5-week power outage in Auckland, he denies there was any Government responsibility for that event. We do take responsibility for righting what has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat have we done? First of all, I have required a report to be with me within 2 weeks from Transpower as to its analysis of what went wrong, and particularly as to why the wider system did not cope with the consequences of yesterday\u2019s line failure. I have already made it clear that I am engaging another expert, probably an international expert, to provide me with expert advice on that. After taking that advice, remedial action will be taken promptly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat are the likely avenues that we will explore? It does concern me that we are overly reliant on the \u014Ct\u0101huhu site. Transpower already had plans to separate some of the facilities on that site. The New Zealand Herald today reported me as saying that would be done after 2012. There has been a bit of a misunderstanding between myself and the journalist. What I intended to impart was the reality that already Transpower plans to separate some of those facilities by 2012. The question I am asking is twofold: firstly, should that be done sooner, and, secondly, should we have a separate substation from \u014Ct\u0101huhu in order to further give us greater capacity to survive events like this one? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to turn more generally to the condition of our infrastructure. Before National took the reins in the 1990s, transmission was planned in advance to keep ahead of demand growth. Staged investments were made. They were expensive but they stood us in good stead for many, many years. But in the 1990s what changed was that National restructured Transpower. National appointed its own board and pursued an ideological agenda that it could not achieve in the reform of producer co-ops, where the farmers fought back, but it could achieve in respect of Government-controlled entities. It said that the market would give us pricing signals that would tell us if and when we should invest more in transmission capacity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOf course, history shows that that model was just bollocks. What National planned to do then really beggars belief. What it was trying to say was that the market would deliver, and that there was no need to plan. Of course, the market did not deliver; all it delivered was inadequate investment. That was not just on the transmission front but also in roading, in public transport, and in every area of infrastructure that one can find, including telecommunications. We have been left with that legacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat have we done to remedy that legacy? This year, in and around Auckland alone, we are spending $83 million. In the coming year $300 million will be spent on capital works, over and above maintenance. What were we left with when we inherited the system from National? About $50 million per annum was being spent. It was completely inadequate. National now cries crocodile tears. Perhaps the even greater fault of those years was not the amount that was spent; it was the fact that National was not even planning to spend more. It did not know what needed to be done, and when it needed to be done. Labour has stepped in and it is spending money on critical infrastructure. As I have said, five or six times more is being spent on transmission lines each year than National spent\u2014a billion dollars or more over the next 3 years. It may not be enough. If it is not enough, we will spend more, but that will not be because we have some ridiculous view of the market giving pricing signals as to when and where extra money should be spent on the grid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDr Smith said there were three problems that the Government should remedy. He said, firstly, there should be more investment in electricity generation. That is interesting, is it not? He was a member of the National Government that, with Mr Bradford as the Minister, took those decisions from the Government and said they were for the market to make. It is interesting that Dr Smith says today that we are not getting enough new electricity generation. Obviously, the market model that he foisted upon us has failed, if he is right in that assertion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESecondly, Dr Smith says that the Resource Management Act is the problem. He quoted those references in the Transpower reports. Dr Smith overstates the Resource Management Act problem. The problem was that no money was being spent, and there was no planning for money to be spent. There were some imperfections in the Resource Management Act. We have eased the call-in procedures, so that where there are projects that go across territorial authority boundaries, there is now a legislative vehicle that enables the likes of Transpower, or someone else who wants to put in important infrastructure, to come to the Government and say that those matters should be called in. That step has not yet been taken in respect of the Waikato project that is proposed in order to lead more power into Auckland, or indeed any other substation projects, but it may be. If such an application is made to us and we think it is appropriate, we now have the tools to enable that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThirdly, Dr Smith says that the Electricity Commission is the problem. The OECD organisation the International Energy Agency has exactly the opposite view to Dr Smith\u2019s, and it is right. I will read from its report this year, which came out a month ago: \u201CThe establishment of the Electricity Commission \u2026 provides much needed regulatory oversight to industries that had previously been left to self-regulation.\u201D I do not need to say anything more than that, to demolish that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is true that what happened in Auckland yesterday should not have happened. It is true that it is the responsibility of the Government to remedy it, and the Government will. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00220dc8b0c88cfb461cb3abd87a77ac8f5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dc8b0c88cfb461cb3abd87a77ac8f5f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I notice that not a single Government member from Auckland has chosen to participate in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b520ecd57374dc68834dad6528dfe70\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d227a61d0d45e4bc238324da3b7260\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is, if you will let me finish. I understand from the Clerk that there is only one further opportunity to speak, so I seek leave for a further slot of 10 minutes to be made available so that Judith Tizard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b63fd8343bf24be08f10b1010ef598cc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot seek leave for another member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022281242e0457742aa8569f93790374900\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is for an extension of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6454b452ec04d79bf3b8411780a9ee2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please be seated. He cannot seek leave for someone else to have an extension of time or to speak. He cannot do that on behalf of someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b329eacb842e4f64949fe5f805657a2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am seeking leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224747e29a5b1243fc9f7267f74fa4bbf1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is the master of its own destiny. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u00227484f7a22b1e4e06856aaf5fd0210282\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227484f7a22b1e4e06856aaf5fd0210282\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues):\u003C/span\u003E It is my joy, and I thank the member of Parliament on the other side for giving me a chance to speak. I am delighted at his very late interest in Auckland. One of the joys of being part of the Labour-led Government is that Auckland has a third of New Zealand\u2019s population and represents about one-sixth of its land area. This is a Government that accepts that Auckland\u2019s infrastructure is vital, not only to Aucklanders but to all New Zealanders. That is why this Government works across the Government on Auckland issues. It is my great joy, as MP for Auckland Central and Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues, to be a constant nagging adviser to all of my colleagues. I am delighted to report to the House that they give me a great deal of time. When I rang David Parker\u2019s office yesterday, we had some discussion with his senior advisory staff. I have had a number of discussions with him. Indeed, I had a briefing from him this afternoon, as soon as I had accepted a large petition out on the steps of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI tell the House that this Government does not think it is acceptable that the infrastructure of this country has been run down, to the point where one wire breaking puts the well-being of the whole New Zealand economy and the whole Auckland economy at risk. I say to this House that this Government has been working now for nearly 7 years to find out what the problems are, and to address them. We understand that good infrastructure is the basis of a good economy and a good society. That is what we are working towards. I am proud of what this Government has done. I am proud of what Ministers across this Government do\u2014the time they spend in Auckland, and the number and the range of people in organisations in Auckland whom they speak to. I am delighted to say that Auckland is getting the best service it has ever had from any Government, in the whole history of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister started out this year, as she did 6 years ago, by saying that Auckland matters; Auckland matters to New Zealand, and Auckland matters to Aucklanders, as well. We are not prepared to see Auckland bulldozed so that roads can go, willy-nilly, with no concern about local communities. We are not prepared to destroy Auckland as an environment for people to live in. We are not prepared to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022017d643b9d0e46edb9ce2814b6731a7e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I draw your attention to the matter that we are urgently debating. It is the power failure yesterday that affected over 700,000 Auckland people. I have been listening very carefully to the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues. She has made absolutely no mention of the power failure yesterday. I would like the Minister to address the issue of the urgent debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fa3e3e2f6c64a548e125e1aae8cc30f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I take note of it. I actually heard the member as I was coming to the Chair making reference to the topic that is being discussed. I just remind the member that during points of order there will be silence. He should stand and apologise properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c1d8763d9549e199c3b24c8ee227ed\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a5324be3c51429b8dc6b49bcd54fbd1\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am entitled to rebut the nonsense we have heard from members across this House who are abusing Auckland and this Government for what they cannot see is the mote in their own eyes. It is time this House and this Government were given the credit for recognising that Auckland\u2019s infrastructure does matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30ac413760a4a23b107e3f9f220af64\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: There were power cuts yesterday. Does the Minister know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240de79d6bed649c89ef4516207e0d867\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: If the member for Whangarei would calm down for a minute, I would very happily tell him what the problem was in Auckland yesterday. I live in Ponsonby. I was out at a meeting, then I came home and put on a load of washing. It had just finished, so I put it in the drier and the power went off. So I went up to Ponsonby to see whether it was a general problem or a very local one. I rang several people around the city to find out whether their power was off, and I listened to the radio\u2014as one is required to do in civil emergencies, generally. I discovered that it was a major problem, so I rang Wellington and asked my office to ring the Minister of Energy\u2014actually, they could just walk across the corridor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EThis Government is a good Government that in all the time it has been active has been addressing New Zealand\u2019s infrastructure problems. Auckland is just a subset of that. This does indicate that when a storm comes through Auckland, and our infrastructure does not stand up to it, it means that Aucklanders suffer. But I want to point out to the baying people across the House that this affects all New Zealanders, and it is something we have to work on together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI feel really sorry right now for the rural people in the South Island whose energy has been off not just for 1 day\u2014as we in Auckland were relatively lucky to get away with\u2014but for days. They accept that because they live in some of the most beautiful and isolated places in New Zealand, there is a risk\u2014but they are well prepared. I say that this Government is determined to see that, in future, Auckland will be well prepared so New Zealand does not suffer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c606b4d0d2964196bb1fc106c4a5a5fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c606b4d0d2964196bb1fc106c4a5a5fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to table the International Energy Agency report on New Zealand that specifically identifies the issue of transmission into Auckland, stating that this was a problem ignored by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251c9f4a8563f41f4a1ee37faaf6188c1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022 data-id=\u0022df828735a68a434e8c5cc8f47256daca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df828735a68a434e8c5cc8f47256daca\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate has finished. I call on Government order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022acf778c50e9c458293b11c8bb8d5eecb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acf778c50e9c458293b11c8bb8d5eecb\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. United Future is yet to have a call in this urgent debate. A little while ago I did ask the person in the Chair, Ross Robertson, whether I could take the final call in the debate, and I would like to do that, if possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e716c9fe0314fda93423268a466b9df\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The time for the debate has expired. All that the member can do is seek leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022104eaa39b5c2425e9780cc9004bdd4ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022104eaa39b5c2425e9780cc9004bdd4ab\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House, in view of those circumstances\u2014an obvious misunderstanding about the matter\u2014to take a 5-minute call in the urgent debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eefcd4df19e94c0c9312a02850cd0559\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has sought leave for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is not. We will go back to the urgent debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00223b561432b1fe44788359a46ecb2b77d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b561432b1fe44788359a46ecb2b77d9\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Transpower has a number of questions to answer in respect of the blackout that occurred in Auckland yesterday. It is, in truth, a national embarrassment. I have spoken today to members of a number of multinational companies who have received considerable inward email correspondence in the last 24 hours, most of it making New Zealand the butt of international jokes. Those companies include some of the largest and most successful corporations in the world, and they are now beginning to assign New Zealand to Third World status when it comes to security of electricity supply. It is simply not good enough. I also mention to the House that just a little while ago we had a power cut in Bowen House, here in Wellington; we seem to be in a season of power cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EQuestions have to be asked about why the blackout was allowed to happen. It is inescapable that there must be some accountability in our system, and that those who are responsible for this unacceptable event should be asked about it and brought to account for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI mention Transpower in particular because, as others have mentioned, this situation was foreshadowed for some time by Keith Turner of Meridian Energy, and by a number of other people who have come to see me in my role as United Future\u2019s energy spokesperson. They have been saying to me for the last couple of years that there are similar problems in terms of getting power into Nelson and other parts of the country, that the job is not being done, that we have not maintained our electricity grid, that we have not done maintenance when it was needed, and that we have been gambling, as it were, with the electricity supply to both commercial and domestic consumers in this country\u2014to my knowledge, for the last couple of years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIt gets worse, because, as we all know, the proposal for a new, 400-kilovolt line into Auckland that was put forward by Transpower was rejected by Roy Hemmingway of the Electricity Commission, because, in his view, it involved inadequate analysis of the problem and inadequate consultation with the affected people. Transpower has therefore been forced, embarrassingly, to come back with a new proposal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI am talking about an organisation that has the highest ratio of highly paid executives of any State-owned enterprise in the country. That is to be expected, because they are professional engineers, but, notwithstanding that reality, one can look at it the other way\u2014that it increases the level of responsibility and accountability that should apply to this organisation. We have to ask ourselves whether they are earning their pay and adequately serving the interests of New Zealand\u2019s electricity grid. I think that on a number of things now\u2014at least three different matters that have come up\u2014the organisation has been seen to fail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe really have to set right this quite unacceptable situation in terms of electricity going into Auckland. It beggars the imagination that Transpower\u2019s planning, with all of its expertise and brainpower, could have been so inadequate that one single line going down could bring our largest city to a blackout for 5 hours. It is not good enough, and I am very pleased this matter is being debated in Parliament today, because we have got to get that message across. I say to the Minister of Energy that I think it is time some people were held accountable for what has gone on. How else do we ensure that we do not face this again somewhere else, in some other city\u2014Wellington or elsewhere\u2014in the near future? God forbid that it should revisit Auckland, if we have, as is forecast in some cases, further inclement weather and further weather bombs, as they are known, during this winter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI am very, very concerned indeed about the great damage that has been done to Auckland, and also, in particular, to New Zealand\u2019s international reputation. In my time as energy spokesperson for United Future, I have had multinationals say to me that they are moving to Queensland, because there they can enter into long-term electricity supply contracts. They pay more for electricity there than they would in New Zealand, but at least they have security of supply, which they cannot get in New Zealand. Here they cannot enter into contracts for security of electricity supply for a period of time, which would give them some payback on their initial investment. That is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI think the Government has to take some responsibility for what has happened, and to admit that it has got to lift its game and sort out these problems; otherwise, we will see inaction, excuses, double-ups, and bureaucracy continue to weigh down this country\u2019s economy, and that is just not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022753cf791591845cf9cc3ff8dee50f213\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2005/06 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f37d20045d1418ea01ac91c8e204dde\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022758cfea112364d79bf156544783ab37b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022758cfea112364d79bf156544783ab37b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2005/06 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002295ed982bf53d4acbbf0b1218f057a953\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2005/06 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d44c45e9b12478f84be403307ee0e8c\u0022\u003EHousing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002210b10ac1600f435cbf92c669105a8c90\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022839a8791e3a04ae6af42f26e067d156c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022839a8791e3a04ae6af42f26e067d156c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Housing: I move, That the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. The bill provides for information matching between Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development. It authorises the corporation to disclose to the ministry information relating to the corporation\u2019s tenants and tenancies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill has been reported back from the Social Services Committee. I thank the committee for its careful consideration of the bill. There were two written submissions on the bill, and I thank those submitters. The select committee recommended that the bill be passed with one minor technical amendment. References in other Acts and regulations to the Housing Restructuring Act 1992 need to be amended to reflect the new name of the principal Act. Subsequent to the introduction of the bill, the Social Security (Temporary Additional Support) Regulations 2005 were promulgated, and the bill has also been amended to include reference to those regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe information match between Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development follows initiatives in Budget 2003 and Budget 2004 for new and extended information-matching between various Government agencies and the Ministry of Social Development. The ministry has completed the implementation of higher-priority information matches with other agencies. Those matches have resulted in savings to taxpayers and have maintained the integrity of the social assistance system. The ministry has now engaged with Housing New Zealand Corporation to implement an information match. As with previous matches between Government agencies and the Ministry of Social Development, this information match is subject to the provisions of the Privacy Act 1993, and the Privacy Commissioner will report back on the operation of the match. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe information match will help to minimise the overpayment of benefits and student allowances, help with the recovery of beneficiary and student debt that arises from any such overpayment, and help with the detection of fraud. In addition to minimising benefit overpayments, the information match may benefit tenants, their partners, and their dependants by enabling the Ministry of Social Development to address situations where people are not receiving their full entitlement to social assistance. For example, the Ministry of Social Development may make a tenant who is leaving a Housing New Zealand Corporation tenancy aware of the accommodation supplement and other assistance that may be available from the Ministry of Social Development for private sector renters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EInformation-matching rules under the Privacy Act require that individuals who will be affected by the programme are notified. Housing New Zealand Corporation will undertake targeted publicity before the implementation of the information-matching programme and throughout its operation, to comply with the information-matching rules in the Privacy Act. All new and existing Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants will be made aware that certain information supplied by the corporation may be provided to the Ministry of Social Development for information-matching purposes. The bill does not allow for the ministry to provide the corporation with personal information regarding tenants and their partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EThe bill renames the Housing Restructuring Act 1992 as the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters Act 1992 to make it clear that the Act provides for tenancy matters. The bill also makes consequential amendments to the Privacy Act to include Housing New Zealand Corporation and Housing New Zealand Ltd as specified agencies for the purpose of information sharing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EIn closing, I say the bill extends information matching between agencies so as to improve the integrity of the social assistance system, and, as such, it should be welcomed by all. I am pleased to commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022241af2a8bd3943c18622adb3f35470c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022241af2a8bd3943c18622adb3f35470c1\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill. The two main purposes of the bill are to amend the Housing Restructuring Act 1992 by renaming it and inserting in it information-matching provisions that authorise Housing New Zealand Corporation to disclose information about tenants and tenancies to the department responsible for the administration of the Social Security Act 1964. Why would members not support this bill? It is interesting to note that National introduced this legislation in 1999. At that time Labour did not see the light or see the importance of having information matching with Housing New Zealand and social security services. But Labour does see the importance of that now, and we welcome its progress on the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe bill increases transparency and openness in the State\u2019s social services agency. Of course, Housing New Zealand Corporation is a social services agency. State housing is a social service\u2014and who would argue that we should not have social housing for the needy\u2014as is the Ministry of Social Development, with all the sorts of social services that it provides. Those social services include the unemployment benefit, the domestic purposes benefit, and other benefits that those who are struggling require from time to time\u2014hopefully just for short periods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003ESo the bill increases transparency and openness. The Minister has canvassed the issue over privacy rights being protected. I know that the Greens oppose the bill, and perhaps we will hear a bit more from Sue Bradford later on the reasons for that. I know that part of the Greens\u2019 reasoning concerns the fact that privacy rights should be given over voluntarily, and not be required by legislation. Our concern, of course, is in respect of the ratbags out there\u2014and they are a minority\u2014who are ripping off the system, whether it be in the Housing New Zealand portfolio, the State housing portfolio, or in the area of receiving benefits from the taxpayer. Why would those ratbags want to voluntarily disclose their private information? They would not want to voluntarily disclose information that would have them caught, would they? No. They would not want to voluntarily disclose information that would make the public see through their sinister games ripping off the taxpayers of this country, would they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5a2818ae4d94806a6deb87c9036dc34\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: Of course not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751269bdd2a541d389704d26b24cfffb\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. They would not want to voluntarily disclose information that would point to fraud and fraudulent activity\u2014absolutely not. That is why we see the need to pass legislation\u2014and I acknowledge the Minister\u2019s comments\u2014that will compulsorily bring transparency and openness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EIt is not transparency in the sense that the information will be printed in every newspaper in the country, or anything like that; it is simply disclosure between one State organisation, Housing New Zealand Corporation, and another State organisation, the Ministry of Social Development. So that should happen. I talked about the needy people who are receiving taxpayer support as they struggle, from time to time. A minority of those who are getting such support rip off the system. Those people give everyone else who needs social support and who is genuinely needy a bad name. That is an absolute shame, and the National Party finds that appalling, because we on this side of the House believe we should have social services, the unemployment benefit, the domestic purposes benefit, and State houses for those who are in need\u2014absolutely. I say to those who seek to rort the system\u2014whether it is the people who receive those benefits, or Labour, which wants to purchase votes\u2014that we on this side of the House find that absolutely appalling, and we oppose it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI will give members an example, and, as we are talking about Housing New Zealand Corporation, I think it is quite a poignant one. What about all those State house tenants who have boarders? People who are listening in\u2014and I know that many hundreds of thousands of people are listening in to this speech tonight\u2014may not know that Zealand has roughly 63,000 State house tenancies. Do listeners know that 7,000 of the 63,000 State house families take in boarders? We are providing State houses to 7,000 families and their boarders. Is it right that we are doing that? Well, the National Party accepts that a family in a State house might have one boarder, because that boarder could be their 18-year-old son who goes to polytech. Of course such families would have their son as a boarder. The National Party accepts that a State house family might even have two boarders, because it could be that grandma is also living with them. She may be 75, be on a pension, and have nowhere else to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EOf course such families would have living with them their sons who attend polytech and their grandmothers who have nowhere else to go. There is nothing wrong with that. But do New Zealand taxpayers think it is acceptable that some State house tenants in this country have three, four, or five boarders, or, as in one case\u2014the worst case in New Zealand\u2014six boarders? I say to the Minister that that is three times two boarders\u2014six times one boarder. That State house family takes in six boarders. Does he understand? Do New Zealanders think it is acceptable that taxpayers should provide a State house for a family\u2014apparently a needy family\u2014that takes in six paying boarders? That is an absolute outrage, particularly when voters for the M\u0101ori Party\u2014for Tariana Turia\u2014who are often in large families and need large State houses are on the waiting list, while another family runs a boarding house business with six boarders in their home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI hope that the passing of this Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill catches ratbags like that, because there is no way that the taxpayer ever intended providing a State house to a family that would also have four, five, or six boarders living under their roof. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThere is also no way that the taxpayer ever intended providing State housing for those who earn in excess of $70,000, $80,000, or in fact $95,000 a year after tax. It was revealed in this debating chamber only a few months ago that a State house tenant was earning $95,000 after tax\u2014in other words, around $130,000 gross\u2014and occupying a State home in New Zealand. Was that State house, provided by the taxpayer, intended for that person? No way! That State house was intended for Tariana Turia\u2019s voter\u2014the one who is struggling, in need, and has a large family. It was never intended for the tenant who takes in six boarders and it was never intended for the tenant who earns $130,000 a year. I hope that this Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill catches that ratbag, too. Yes, Labour wants to buy votes\u2014and it will throw cash and houses at anyone to get those votes\u2014but the reason for National supporting this legislation is our hope that it will bring some honesty and transparency to the State house sector. That is why, on behalf of the National Party, I commend this bill to this debating chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b09970bdb63048538fa98042fcea0935\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b09970bdb63048538fa98042fcea0935\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise to speak in the second reading of the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill. I was also very pleased the Social Services Committee, which I chair, received this bill and took it through the select committee process. The bill was referred to the committee on 13 December 2005. Submissions closed on 27 February 2006. We considered two submissions and were grateful for the advice we received from the Housing New Zealand Corporation, the Ministry of Social Development, and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. Also, I would like to thank all my colleagues on the select committee for their effort in dispatching this bill back to the House as rapidly as they have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003EThe bill authorises Housing New Zealand Corporation to disclose to the Ministry of Social Development information relating to its tenants and tenancies. The Ministry of Social Development will use the information to determine eligibility for all forms of financial assistance granted under the Social Security Act 1964 and the Student Allowances Regulations 1998, and to recover debts owed to the Crown in respect of those benefits. This is the result of the 2003 and 2004 Budgets, in which Cabinet approved information matching between those two agencies in order to improve the integrity of the income support system. The sharing of information will minimise benefit and student allowance debt overpayments by Housing New Zealand tenants and also help with the recovery of overpayments when they occur. This information-matching programme is another layer in the Government\u2019s effort to protect the integrity of the benefit system. This will result not only in savings but also in an enhanced credibility of the benefit system. Information matching could lead to an anticipated saving of around $1.4 million a year. Expected savings are made in overpayments of benefits and allowances and debt recovered, less the cost of recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003EPeople can from time to time find themselves, quite inadvertently at times, at odds with regard to their benefits or allowances\u2014perhaps having been overpaid and not acting quickly enough to rectify the situation. Debt accrues and people can find themselves in quite a lot of trouble. I believe that this kind of legislation will assist in minimising that situation. Also, it is worth remembering that when people have quite purposefully gone about trying to defraud our benefit system, it is incumbent on any Government that happens to be in office at the time to maintain, uphold, and improve upon the integrity of the welfare benefit system for all New Zealanders. This bill certainly addresses the loopholes that can sometimes occur for some people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003EJust as I head towards concluding my brief contribution to this reading, I recall one effort made in the late 1980s by the then Labour Government, relating to the incredible benefit fraud that was being detected throughout the system at the time. It was what I call quite an innovation in liberating some people from being caught up fraudulently in the benefit system. The then Labour Government instigated over a period of a couple of years an amnesty that cleared the decks, enabling many people to unburden themselves of debts they had accrued or of fraudulent activities that had not yet been detected. It liberated many people, enabling them to start again with clean slates. This legislation will minimise any possibility of people being able to defraud the benefit system, and information matching will assist in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00224ac97a970217478b8fa0dbe1721c06c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ac97a970217478b8fa0dbe1721c06c1\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak as a member of the Social Services Committee in support of the second reading of the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill we are debating today does a couple of things: it changes the name of the legislation to that very long mouthful of words\u2014but a more accurate description\u2014and establishes information matching between Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development. That is a one-way information-matching system. The Social Services Committee was given four reasons for the necessity of that matching: firstly, to assist the Ministry of Social Development in minimising and recovering beneficiary and student debt from benefit and allowance overpayments, secondly, to provide early intervention in cases that could result in the creation of substantial debt, thirdly, to assist in the detection of fraud and to help to track people who are in debt to the Ministry of Social Development, and, fourthly and finally, to identify beneficiaries who are not receiving the correct income support entitlements. In other words, we are looking to uncover fraud, prevent the accumulation of excessive debt, and make sure that people receive their correct entitlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ENational supports this bill, for three reasons. The first reason is that we tried to introduce legislation similar to this bill in 1999, but Labour opposed it. We raised at that time concerns about fraud, about people accumulating debt\u2014getting themselves into a position they could never see a way to get out of\u2014and about ensuring fairness, so that people received what they were entitled to receive. If we were a bit churlish, we could perhaps say today to Labour members that we told them so. However, we are supporting this bill because it is well overdue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe second reason why we are supporting the bill is that it increases transparency and openness. I refer to the analysis in the report of the Privacy Commissioner to the select committee, which states: \u201CVery large sums of money are paid out by the Ministry of Social Development in delivering welfare assistance. We readily accept that the department\u2019s objectives, which seek to protect that money, relate to matters of significant public importance.\u201D National certainly accepts that analysis and agrees that the transfer of information should be seen to happen clearly and transparently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESome discussion took place about information sharing outside any agreed protocols. In particular, the submission from the Dunedin Community Law Centre highlighted concerns around informal information-sharing between agencies, and expressed fears that allowing such information sharing to happen with the consent of the State had the potential to further undermine respect for the code of conduct. I disagree with that. I actually think this legislative change, to formalise and make very transparent and clear the transfer of information, makes any informal sharing of information and ignoring of protocols much tougher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe third reason why National supports this bill is to address some of the issues my colleague Mr Heatley raised around State house tenants benefiting from boarders and thereby supplementing their incomes fraudulently. The statistics quoted by the Minister of Housing at the end of last year show that nearly 7,000 State tenants had paying boarders. Members may ask what is wrong with that. Actually, I have no great problem with it if it is done within the rules. I accept what Mr Heatley said about a tenant having six boarders; I think that is excessive. But in my office this week I saw an elderly gentleman who lives in a State house on an income-related rent and really stretches to make ends meet. He lives up the East Coast, so he has relatively high transportation costs. All his provisions cost more than they would elsewhere because he lives in a remote rural area. All he wanted was to be able to have a relative board with him and supplement his income in order to make his benefit go a little further. Nothing is wrong with that at all; it is quite within the rules. All he required from me was to get that set out in writing by Housing New Zealand Corporation to make sure he was covered. I applaud that gentleman for his efforts to make sure, in his words, that he was not \u201Cripping anyone off\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ENational has no problem with people who play within the rules. But a large number of tenants in State houses receive money from boarders and do not declare the rent they receive from them as part of their income. One of the major outcomes of this information sharing is that if people do not declare such income and that income cannot be considered in the annual review of State tenants carried out by Housing New Zealand Corporation, then it will be found they are defrauding the New Zealand taxpayers who are helping them. The outcome of this information sharing is that if Housing New Zealand Corporation knows that more people than its tenants are living in a house and some are paying board, then that information can be sent to the Ministry of Social Development, which can then make its own inquiries about the income that is actually being received into that household and alter the income-related rents accordingly. That is a fair way to deal with people who receive assistance from New Zealand taxpayers. So National supports this bill for those three reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe select committee received only two submissions on the bill. One was from the New Zealand Property Investors Federation Inc., which supported the proposals. I thank it for its quite comprehensive submission. The property investors supported what was being proposed\u2014of course they did\u2014but also wanted the bill to be extended to enable the Ministry of Social Development to supply the Ministry of Justice and its officials with specific address-for-service data, to improve the tracking and enforcement of court-ordered money orders. The officials ruled that that was outside the scope of the bill, which was a bit disappointing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe property investors referred to the 2003 agreement that under a tenancy tribunal judgment, creditors could be given assistance to trace tribunal debtors by the provision of access to some Government-held address information. They made the point that private landowners are owed between $5 million and $6 million in rent arrears, and at least $43 million for damage. They are continually frustrated at their inability to track down tenants who have disappeared but are still within the State system. Many of those tenants are known to the State and still actually receive benefits from the State, whilst owing millions of dollars for both damage and outstanding rents to people who have provided them with accommodation. It was a great pity that that matter was deemed to be outside the scope of the bill and to learn that the 2003 agreement is obviously not working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe second submission was from the Dunedin Community Law Centre. It was concerned about how to protect individuals from multiple investigations by agencies. It cited the stress and trauma experienced by individuals and families when a number of agencies is investigating them. That matter, too, was dismissed by the officials, on the premise that there would not be a two-way match and that the information matching would be between only the two organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe select committee largely supported this bill; I think only the Greens dissented. This legislation is well overdue. National will not say too loudly or too often to Government members that we told them so, but we support the second reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u002264cb32a8f2b84748b0bec16105ece92e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264cb32a8f2b84748b0bec16105ece92e\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I make this contribution to the debate on behalf of New Zealand First, and I want to say from the outset that this House has an obligation and a responsibility to ensure that the legislation we pass, particularly in relation to taxpayer funds, provides a protection from fraud. New Zealand First will support any bill that protects and ensures the credibility of taxpayer expenditure. Notwithstanding the reasons previous speakers have provided to the House for supporting this bill, we support it particularly in terms of the credibility of taxpayer expenditure. I quote from the background to the bill set out in the Bills Digest: \u201CThe Bill has been introduced to \u2018help minimise overpayments of benefits and student allowances, help the recovery of beneficiary and student debt arising from those overpayments,\u201D\u2014I suggest that some of the comments about the use of overpayments were that it was actually fraud\u2014\u201Cand help the detection of fraud. More generally, the match will be another layer in the [Ministry of Social Development\u2019s] efforts to protect the integrity of the benefit system\u2019.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Housing Restructuring Act of 1992 and, as a consequence, the Privacy Act of 1993. It enables Housing New Zealand Corporation to disclose information about tenants and tenancies to the Ministry of Social Development as the department responsible for the administration of the Social Security Act. New Zealand First supports the intent of this bill because we believe it will help to prevent further abuse of the benefit system, plus minimise the opportunities for fraudulent use of taxpayers\u2019 money. It will also help to detect and minimise benefit and student allowance overpayments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EDuring the first reading we expressed concern about the privacy issues this bill raises and the ease with which this age of electronic information affords intrusion into people\u2019s private lives. The age of Big Brother is well and truly upon us now and we need to exercise the utmost caution and vigilance when applying to legislation what technology now allows. Just because the means are there does not mean we need to use them. However, we are satisfied that any information sharing carried out under this legislation will be subject to strict controls, and sought only for the purposes outlined in the bill. Checks and balances are vital in the exercise of democracy, and this bill is no exception to that. The rules relating to the use and disposal of information, as laid out in Part 10 of the Privacy Act, certainly apply to this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe information age is a double-edged sword in the sense that it enables unnecessary and abhorrent intrusion into our private lives, which we must do all we can to prevent. However, it also allows for better detection and prevention of abuse of systems and fraudulent use of taxpayers\u2019 money. Too often in the public sector the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Now that we have the technology that allows us to detect and prevent fraud, or, conversely, departmental errors, we should use it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is satisfied that the Ministry of Social Development and Housing New Zealand Corporation, as the two Government departments affected by this bill, will use that technology sparingly and that they will use it to maximise people\u2019s benefit entitlements as well as to detect fraud, and that they will apply the legislation with the intention with which it is written. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI want to comment on some things that have been said about the number of boarders some State tenants have. Although some allusion was made to certain supporters of certain political parties, I suggest that some of the families they talk about having two, three, or six boarders, actually number six, eight, or 10. If we are going to be pedantic about that, we need to define what constitutes a family. I know that in the case of some of my relatives, although eight, 10, or 12 people may be living in one house, they are all related. Some of them are descendants of the same mother and father. We talk about addressing the social issues our country confronts. Without exception, everyone talks about the support of the family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ETherefore, I bring that to the notice of the House. Although we make those general comments, some families have those numbers but they do not fit the description of the word \u201Cfamily\u201D as it has been applied in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThis bill should be seen as a forerunner for other similar communications between Government departments. I refer to the issue of those who owe outstanding fines and who are about to flee the country. I refer to the immigration laws, and hopefully during the review process of the Immigration Service these sorts of things will be picked up. At the end of the day, I reaffirm New Zealand First\u2019s support for this bill. We see it as another way of ensuring the prevention of fraudulent use of taxpayer funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u00228b4c7e217e7f45cb8f726346cafe6e63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b4c7e217e7f45cb8f726346cafe6e63\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party continues to oppose this bill, and I believe at this stage that, unfortunately, we are likely to be the only party in the House to do so. Although many members of the public and members of Parliament are quite quick to get upset about what they see as infringements on the privacy of citizens in general, when it comes to beneficiaries not many of us will stand up for their rights to any form of protection at all. The Green Party believes there are already other means whereby Work and Income can find out endless details about the private lives of beneficiaries, including their rent details, without information-matching programmes being extended so that the Housing New Zealand Corporation can disclose information about State tenants to the Ministry of Social Development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThis bill is neither desirable nor necessary, nor has it had the sort of public scrutiny I think it deserves. It is one of those small pieces of legislation that fall between the cracks of public consciousness, and I believe that because submissions were called for over the summer period and over a very brief time frame, we ended up with only two groups making submissions and having any input. That is not democracy at its finest. However, we now live with the consequences, which are that the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill is going to pass through this Parliament with very little public scrutiny, awareness, or questioning of what it contains, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThere are a number of reasons why the Green Party continues to oppose this bill. First of all, we have a broad concern about the proliferation of information-matching programmes operating between Government departments and agencies. Those have grown from 20 such formal arrangements in 1995-96 to around 72 in 2004-05, according to the 2005 annual report of the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. All these programmes mean that the State is intruding more and more into the lives of ordinary New Zealanders at a level of which I think most of us are unaware. I think that Parliament should take a close look whenever parts of the State seek to extend their information-sharing powers, whatever class of citizens might be affected, and members should very carefully consider whether the new extension is actually necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E Otherwise, we may as well all end up being microchipped\u2014with all relevant data implanted inside our heads or wherever\u2014as we go through life, and be done with it. That is not as silly as it sounds. For example, in America there are over 100 medical centres and hospitals that use the first human implantable, passive radio frequency, identification microchip. There is mother and baby tagging, which is a huge growth area, with some 900 US institutions using it. The Mexican Attorney-General has had himself and several of his staff microchipped. The Colombian President has suggested implanting microchips in Colombian workers to ensure they return home after working in the United States. In Cincinnati a company is requiring any employee who works in its secure data centre to be implanted with a microchip. Some might be wondering why I am talking about microchipping of humans in this debate. It is because I fear that if we start down that road in this country\u2014and dogs are only the first step\u2014prisoners and beneficiaries will be the first classes of citizens to be microchipped, because very few people in this place will stand up for their rights to privacy and human dignity. It is not just dogs that we need to worry about when it comes to microchipping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe second reason why the Green Party does not support this pernicious little bill is that it deliberately puts Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants into a separate category from any other class of tenants. People who rent from a private landlord, a city council or a community sector housing provider will not be subject to the new information-matching measures with Work and Income, but people who are in State houses will be. We believe it is inappropriate to establish two classes of tenant in that way, each with different privacy rights from the other. There is simply no logic to it although, of course, we would not support the extension of these provisions to all landlords. There is a fundamental principle at stake, however, and that is that all tenants should be treated the same with regard to the privacy of their personal information, regardless of the identity of their landlords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThirdly, the Green Party questions whether this bill is really necessary. At the moment, when someone applies for a benefit from Work and Income, endless details about personal circumstances\u2014including details about the person\u2019s accommodation to the nth degree\u2014are required to be supplied. If, on top of that, the Ministry of Social Development wants to acquire information directly from the Housing New Zealand Corporation, all it has to do is to ask for written authority from the person concerned so that tenancy information\u2014for example, how much the rent is\u2014can be shared and confirmed. That sort of information is shared and supplied all the time on the basis of informed consent, which is far preferable to a system of going through some shadowy information-matching programme that most people affected by will have no idea exists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIn response to those in the House today who say that in some cases the Ministry of Social Development might need those extra powers to extract the required information, I say that in fact such powers already exist under the Social Security Act. The Ministry of Social Development can investigate the circumstances of people who may not voluntarily agree to such information being already shared by their Housing New Zealand Corporation landlord. Section 98 of the Privacy Act 1993 contains guidelines to the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s role in relation to information-matching arrangements. One of the things that is supposed to be considered when looking at whether to set up a new programme is the question of whether the programme\u2019s goals can be achieved by other means. This bill should not be quietly slipping through with such widespread support in the House when, in fact, those means exist already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EFinally, the Green Party also believes that one of the main justifications for putting up this legislation is far from convincing. During the select committee process, officials were at pains to tell us that one of the reasons for this bill was that by sharing that information between the Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development, people were more likely to get their full and accurate benefit entitlements. Although it is possible, I guess, that that could happen in a tiny fraction of cases, I would have a lot more faith in such a rationale if most, if not all, beneficiaries were getting their full benefit entitlements already. In fact, despite the good work that has been done in recent years to improve the culture and practices at Work and Income, there is still a wide variation around the country in the way people are treated, in terms of different offices and different case managers. Many beneficiaries still need help from advocacy groups and from social service agencies in order to access their full entitlements, and I believe that Work and Income puts a far higher priority on ensuring people do not rip off the system than it does on making sure people get every dollar of support to which they are, or may be, entitled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe extension of the data-matching powers of the State contained in this bill are uncalled for and unnecessary. Arguments that it is really about helping to maximise people\u2019s benefit entitlements are, I think, misleading and far from convincing, so the Green Party will continue to oppose this bill through all stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd2555cfd2094006be8912debadc22c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd2555cfd2094006be8912debadc22c6\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare. The Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill is a sad case of \u201CPlay it again, Sam.\u201D without a happy ending. In its capacity to instruct the Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development to look at the relationship between the income support systems and tenants, it takes this nation back in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EFifty years ago in this House similar debates were being held on the future of housing and tenancy. In Opposition from 1949 to 1957, Te Uri o Hau and Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua leader and politician Tapihana Paikea relentlessly highlighted the inability of the National Government to reduce M\u0101ori housing waiting lists. He described to the House the realities for post-war M\u0101ori who were living in fowl houses, disused stables, and market garden shacks. There is very little difference between then and now. Titiro ki muri kia whakatika \u0101 mua\u2014those who ignore the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EPaikea also drew public attention to the racial discrimination that was common in housing. Three months ago, a United Nations special rapporteur reported on the significant disparities that continue to exist between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori in areas such as housing. The Government\u2019s own Social Report revealed that housing costs in excess of 30 percent of income are more common in households that include at least one non-European adult. This House needs no reminding that people who spend more than one-third of their disposable income on housing costs are likely to be in poverty. And who are those people who spend more than one-third of their disposable income on housing costs? They are, of course, the poor, tangata whenua, Pasifika, new migrants, and the proletariat on low wages\u2014those who traditionally ensured that their party, the Labour Party, would always stand by them. Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe housing profile is not the glossy Taubmans tale that Labour would lead us to believe. In actual fact, the proportion of M\u0101ori households who find that they have spent more than a third of their disposable income on housing costs increased from 8 percent in 1988 to 21 percent in 2004. That is a 13 percent increase in the number of M\u0101ori households experiencing significant household costs. The only difference between then and now is that the fowl houses and the market garden shacks have been replaced by derelict cowsheds and abandoned vehicles, including buses and caravans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ESo what is different? The difference lies in the remedy. Fifty years ago an exciting new scheme was introduced to respond to such disparities. The desire of wh\u0101nau to own their own homes was realised through capitalisation of the family benefit. This scheme placed the opportunity of immediate homeownership before those families who were previously unable to find the deposit to assist with the cost of a house. I can safely say that the families of my colleagues from the M\u0101ori Party here in this House had their family benefit capitalised, which enabled their parents to put a roof over their kids\u2019 heads\u2014a roof that they owned. When one\u2019s first child turned 1, wh\u0101nau were able to instruct the Social Security Department to accumulate the benefit without interest. The accumulated lump sum of family benefit was then added to the amount available for housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori applicants who wanted to arrange their whole housing proposition through the Department of M\u0101ori Affairs could apply to that department for capitalisation of the family benefit at the same time as they lodged the application for loan finance. It was a one-stop shop. The Department of M\u0101ori Affairs dealt with the Social Security Department on behalf of the applicant, rather than the applicant running the gauntlet of officials or automated call centres that might be encountered today. It was a highly successful scheme\u2014a scheme that many of our wh\u0101nau still talk about as providing them with a step towards self-sufficiency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe idea of self-reliance was also extended to those who might have experienced greater financial constraints, such as widows, or couples whose only income was the unemployment benefit. In those circumstances, the department had special provisions for dealing with people\u2019s housing needs\u2014options that meant that people might not have had to capitalise a desperately needed family benefit in order to obtain a new home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EAlthough I am resisting the tendency to say that they were the good old days, I believe that it does make for fairly grim comparisons when one contrasts the policy of capitalisation of the family benefit with this latest housing restructuring legislation. The sadness is that although this nation has got richer, the gaps between the rich and the poor have widened, and for some families the benefits of the trickle-down theory never arrive. What has trickled down to the poor is poverty, and the leaky home syndrome of the poor\u2014a leaking roof, a broken sewerage pipe, polyurethane \u201CWeet-Bix\u201D as floorboards, and inferior workmanship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EAlthough in the 1950s the Government of the day was pursuing remarkably active policies to help citizens achieve self-sufficiency, in 2006 these new policies turn instead on the tenants, whose greatest misfortune has been to turn to the Housing New Zealand Corporation for help. The snooping surveillance strategies that will be set in place by this bill target a particular group of tenants with increased monitoring. It is unnecessary, it is intrusive, and it is discriminatory. The bill introduces a two-tier system of tenancy. It creates different sets of rights for Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants as opposed to other tenants. And is it not interesting that the Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants that are targeted are those receiving benefits and student allowances? The focus is not about ensuring the capacity of every citizen to belong to, and participate in, a caring community; the bill is purely and simply, as my colleague Hone Harawira called it at the time of its introduction, the \u201CSnooping on the Poor Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThis bill does not address the critical issues of rent reviews, budgeting, basic home maintenance, entitlement reviews, or the over-inflation of rent that arises from extended wh\u0101nau living arrangements. This bill does not address overcrowding, it does not address increasing the amount of homeownership by the poor, but it does address the ability of the State to carry out surveillance on the poor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIt fails to answer the call from a wh\u0101nau living in a four-bedroom Housing New Zealand Corporation house in \u014Ctara, who came to the M\u0101ori Party for help to raise the issue of the housing crisis. In that one home 14 people are currently living, including one daughter, four sons, two nephews, and five mokopuna. The family do not want to shift, as they are established in local schools and in the wider community. They do, however, wish to extend their home by building on a couple of sleepouts, in order to accommodate all the children, but the Housing New Zealand Corporation has declined their request. I ask the House how ridiculous is that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIn the good old days that I mentioned before, that wh\u0101nau could have capitalised their family benefit in order to build extensions and still maintain their family home. But with this bill nothing in their situation will change, except that they will be even more vulnerable to Big Brother snooping around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party wanted to let this bill have a fair reading, and that is why we agreed for it to go to a select committee. We wanted to be convinced that the bill was not just a new scheme to gang up on beneficiaries\u2014to use information from one department to deny them rights from another. We wanted to be convinced that this bill was not just another part of the ongoing saga of the attack against beneficiaries, but, sadly, the two\u2014and only two\u2014submissions received by the select committee did nothing to give us any confidence that the bill will make a difference for the better. The M\u0101ori Party will therefore oppose this bill as being unnecessarily invasive and another model of meddling for unforeseen purposes. It whittles away the rights of Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants, many of whom are beneficiaries. It fails to address the real issues in the sector, and it does nothing to achieve genuine progress for a caring community. And that we can never support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022622a122215bf4bae8e57e7f77a6b4098\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022622a122215bf4bae8e57e7f77a6b4098\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak to the second reading of the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill. The opening statement by the Office of the Privacy Commissioner in its report on this bill to the Social Services Committee accurately describes the bill\u2019s need and purpose: \u201CThis bill will authorise Housing New Zealand to disclose tenancy information to the Ministry of Social Development for use in an authorised information-matching programme. It aims to address double-dipping, whereby tenants obtain more financial assistance than they are entitled to, from the two Government departments.\u201D The Office of the Privacy Commissioner then explains that the proposed information-matching programme has been measured by the office against the current Privacy Act\u2014against its rules, guidelines, and principles\u2014and concludes with this comment: \u201CIn essence, we conclude that the programme accords with the information-matching guidelines.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe office notes that the legislation is sufficiently broad in nature to allow the Ministry of Social Development to match against all forms of the ministry\u2019s assistance, and it queries whether that is completely necessary if the double-dipping of subsidised housing through the Housing New Zealand Corporation and the payment of accommodation assistance is all that is being targeted. It queries whether the legislation requires such wide-ranging provisions. The concern of the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, however, does not appear to be sufficient to sound any real alarm, and it seems to believe that the normal monitoring operations of its office will be able, adequately, to keep a watchful eye on the application of this amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EOne of the advantages this amendment facilitates is that as well as picking up quickly on anyone who may be attempting to deliberately double-dip from two Government departments, it also provides the chance for an early intervention with anyone who has misunderstood his or her entitlements, and who is at risk of accruing substantial debt. Disappointingly, we received only two submissions, but they were good submissions. Both generally supported the provisions of the bill, but did raise some ongoing concerns that future legislation could well consider and address. I would like also to suggest that some of the concerns mentioned by both the M\u0101ori Party and the Green Party may fall within future considerations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EPerhaps the issue that cropped up that was of most interest to me was the current difficulty that exists in enforcing rulings from the tenancy tribunal. That certainly falls outside the framework of this amendment, but it may well be worthy of some future consideration. It is interesting, also, to note that when we talked about the cost of this proposal, we were told that it would cost about $200,000 to set up the programme within the Housing New Zealand Corporation, and $346,000 to administer. The expectation from the Ministry of Social Development is that it will save $1.4 million in the 2006-07 year and the out-years, based on the information matching that will start on 1 July 2006. I guess I am saying that I hope the ministry is right, because those sums are, of course, estimates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI note there is a similar set-up between the Ministry of Social Development and the Customs Service, and the set-up cost alone for that was $2 million. So I want to signal a bit of concern that this programme, from a financial point of view, could end up costing more than it will save. If that is the case, it could be considered a bit of a nonsense. Certainly, based on the figures that have been supplied, the programme will make a difference to the savings the Ministry of Social Development can make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe other issue raised by the M\u0101ori Party member Tariana Turia that I think is really worth noting is the fact that, above and beyond this issue that we are looking at and amending in this bill, we need to signal as a party that we are very concerned about where homeownership is going\u2014particularly first home ownership, and particularly homeownership for middle and low-income people and for those on fixed lower incomes. I agree wholeheartedly that provisions in the past whereby people capitalised on their family benefit made for wonderful experiences for families, and gave a huge opportunity to families who otherwise would not have gained that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E I do believe there are some opportunities within even the State housing sector where families who have been in a home for a while and who may have improved their family household income considerably during that time could well be offered some incentives around homeownership. It would not mean the depletion of our State housing stock; the money could be reinvested back into stock. But I do think the Government should be encouraged to look, wherever possible, at providing opportunities, particularly for State tenants, to find ways by which they too could become proud homeowners and could enjoy the level of financial autonomy and independence that would afford them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this bill, but we do agree that there are many issues around New Zealand housing that need to be addressed in future endeavours by this and any future Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022 data-id=\u00221e592e73cfdb4be0a1e2a83c2b86ee4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e592e73cfdb4be0a1e2a83c2b86ee4a\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to speak on this bill, of course. We desperately need some system to catch the people who rip the system off. We should stop all the rorts that are happening\u2014and there are many of them. Taxpayers are already losing $485 per week per house every year. That is $485 per State house on this failed system. That is a helluva lot of money. We do not need tenants ripping the taxpayers off any more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThe Government has a $12 billion investment in State houses, and I stutter when I call this an investment. I believe there is a better way to deal with State house tenants. We need information sharing between the Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development. We need to keep control of benefits, etc. Because the Labour Government has trained some people in New Zealand to live on the benefit gravy train, and those people rip off the taxpayer wherever possible, we have problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI have nothing to hide myself, and I believe that a lot of State house tenants have nothing to hide. Therefore I believe that all honest tenants would have no trouble with their information being shared between the two departments\u2014the Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development. I would like to quote a good example of two houses in Tauranga. One cost $370,000 and is rented for $45 a week. The Housing New Zealand Corporation needs to know that that house is occupied by a little old lady. Unfortunately, her husband died, and she now occupies a three-bedroom house by herself. What a waste. We have families with two or three children who cannot get houses like this. The other house cost $350,000 and three couples share this house. By sharing information this situation would be picked up through benefit payments. All those couples, I know for a fact, use the same address, so that could be picked up very easily. The sad part of this situation is that even if the Labour Government, through its department, knew of this information, it would not act on it because it is inefficient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThe State housing sector is a mess at the moment. Chris Carter is a failure. He has lost the plot. He needs a lot more information to help him make some correct decisions. I believe he does not have the ability to act on any more information; if he got more information he would be more confused. However, I still think that information sharing might get the message through that we have some people ripping the system off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003ELabour, through Chris Carter, did not support National in 1999 when it tried to bring similar legislation into the House. As I have said before, Chris Carter must now be getting a bit desperate. He is now recommending original National Party ideas. Good old Chris Carter\u2014he is gradually learning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EWe need to make the State house market totally transparent. Sharing information between departments would help in this direction. Sharing information might wake the Labour Government up to the fact that the State housing market is a mess. There must be a better way. Any information sharing in the future will help the future National Government sort this mess out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI myself, as an honest New Zealander\u2014and that is a bit strange around here\u2014am totally embarrassed by what is happening in the State housing sector. We have the well-paid in State houses. We have multiple families living in a State house, and there are many cases of that. These people are making money at the taxpayers\u2019 expense. I find that strange, but it seems to be allowed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EWe need a crossover of information to sort out this mess. I thought that State houses were to help people get a good start. I did not think that a State house was a lifestyle or that it gave someone a chance to make some money out of a taxpayers\u2019 asset. We must get information in order to get back to the original idea of a hand up, not a handout. We must get fairer with all the taxpayers and have a more acceptable system to help people who need a house. Information sharing will help this happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc7cbbc263a046f2a00d91c70c2f7604\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You already read that bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d8d02ad882048d69ebf16c54b4dcaff\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s right, and somebody else wrote it too\u2014the member said that last week! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI would like to finish off by saying that I cannot understand why people are upset about sharing information. It can only mean that they do not intend to pay and they do not intend to be found. I would also like to mention that when National sold State houses, M\u0101ori got most of those houses. By the way, I would like to mention also that I was brought up in a cowshed, so it is not only M\u0101ori who had tough times. But at least I have improved. That member has not!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278b9bcaf33e84b42802334a011394d91\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: This is the improvement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f2faffff4e44e32a0e0b4c3b9dc1999\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would almost say that that member is in the pigsty; however, I will not go that far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222db8da12f37849c6bacc6bb653b32dd9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not use that expression.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a1bc553810a4c5da4a7c024ec145f6a\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. He is a very nice guy, but I cannot see where! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI believe that all disadvantaged people in New Zealand should be helped where necessary. People who do not pay should not be disadvantaged by others. On behalf of the National Party, myself, and Phil Heatley, we will get a much better system in place when we are Government in the next term\u2014members should take note. We need information shared between departments so that we can weed out the people who fail to meet their obligations. We support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227d2db1e39c48495bb0831fa4f40da9a0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments recommended by the Social Services Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 47; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; ACT New Zealand 2; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221bb08a17c0e848eeb13a48c18a164f71\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 47; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; ACT New Zealand 2; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b8e88a8277b442e982369d0b4e2a447\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u0027 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002263de209792f94057b1a4050ee93e17dc\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000529\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 16 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00222749ee1c5e0d40dda556b0953bd3f52b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222749ee1c5e0d40dda556b0953bd3f52b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to advise the Committee at this stage that the Government has issued a financial veto certificate in relation to the Hon Nick Smith\u2019s amendment to insert new clause 6A. The amendment is therefore out of order and no question will be put on it. However, the veto certificate may be debated in the context of this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a149ffdb0004f1ea9e846acad153b76\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002297c7b49992e74d899ab51adacff41983\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297c7b49992e74d899ab51adacff41983\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great honour that the National Party supports this bill. I suppose the first thing we should say about Part 1 is that thank goodness we are here to have a debate and to discuss something that should have happened many years ago. It is quite disturbing and quite upsetting to hear that my colleague Nick Smith\u2019s amendment will not go through, because it was when he brought this issue to the Human Rights Commission that we saw the Government finally do something about it. This tired Government finally felt that it might do something about this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EDr Smith had a constituent whose partner was in long-term residential care. He was getting less money than if he were receiving a living alone allowance, even though the couple was not living together. It is a tragedy for the elderly people of New Zealand that they have had to wait so long for this bill. It is a tragedy that we cannot back-pay some of them so that they can see this happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EMembers opposite can sit there and make gestures and think this issue is not important, but it is incredibly important to a lot of people who are in the situation whereby they would have to divorce or declare themselves unmarried in order to be eligible for additional payment. This is one of those common-sense changes that needed to happen, and it is a tragedy that this Government has taken so long to make it happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI have been wondering whether perhaps the Government just did not think the money was important. In all respect, it is not a lot of money that we are talking about. Part 1, which we have changed, refers to a payment of some $20 to $30 a week to people. For elderly people who are living in their own homes, that can make all the difference for them to be able to get services they really need\u2014for them to be able to buy bread each week, or the local paper, if they are looking for something a bit more. The situation in terms of Nick Smith\u2019s constituent was that the wife was in a rest home and because the couple still recognised each other, the husband was not eligible to get the living alone payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d24ccdfaa1c4fa3a27b2edb8eec0bd4\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd1c768ebb094ad1a4a869027cc71499\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The member is right, it is appalling. Because the wife still vaguely knew her husband, even though the husband was living alone he was not eligible to get the living alone allowance. We are finally seeing some changes in respect of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe Hon Nick Smith needs to be commended for bringing this issue to the attention of the House. It is ridiculous that Dr Smith had to complain to the Human Rights Commission about this absolute miscarriage of justice as a last resort. A week later, interestingly enough, the bill was introduced by the Government. Government members now get to spout forth on how important this bill is and what a great job they are doing, but I point out that it has taken over 6\u00BD years\u20146\u00BD long, long years. As a new member I constantly hear about what the National Party did wrong in the 1990s, and about everything else. We are in a new century, and the Labour Government has had 6\u00BD long, long years to bring this issue to the attention of members and to do something about it. Without any doubt, this issue has not been a priority for the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThanks to Nick Smith we are able today to look at this bill and to consider the issues raised. As a member of the Social Services Committee since the last election, I would like to say what an outstanding job the committee has done in bringing the bill together and writing it. The experts have put it together well and members have been able to understand it. The bill has been kept relatively simple, which I think is important. Simplicity is not something that this Government, in particular, is generally very good at. It normally likes to complicate things as much as it possibly can and make things difficult for people to understand, but in this case it seems to have got it relatively right because it has obviously listened to the officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThis legislation should make it quite easy for people who are eligible for living alone payments. Clause 13 relates to a person who is not considered to be living alone if he or she shares household expenses with another person. That is where it all starts to get a bit confusing and that is where people have been let down in the past. That clause is about the sharing of expenses. The reality is that it does cost more to live alone than to live with someone else. When a person is living alone then he or she is the only one who is paying the power, and power use does not halve, which may be a surprise to some people. A couple\u2019s expenses do not halve because one person has moved out of the house. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00227b4bd47ff8ff4aeda8546113de08aa9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b4bd47ff8ff4aeda8546113de08aa9e\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to speak to Part 1 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill. I think it is, once again, a great indictment on this Labour Government when we hear tonight that Nick Smith\u2019s very sensible amendment to allow\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226938158b75d44b0db20c181494abc63d\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: I was saying before the dinner break that I viewed with great concern the decision of the Labour Government, which I believe is very mean-spirited, to strike out the most appropriate amendment from the Hon Nick Smith. His amendment has two aspects to it: any person who applied for the living alone payment prior to 24 July 2004, but was declined on the basis of his or her spouse living in a rest home, shall be eligible for payment from 24 July 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EOne might ask why I am concerned about the mean-spiritedness of this Labour Government. I go back to 2001, 5 years ago, when the Labour Government passed the superannuation legislation. It was only a year later that Barbara White brought her petition to Parliament, pointing out the anomaly whereby those who were living alone and whose partner or spouse was in long-term residential care were not eligible for the living alone allowance. That was 4 years ago. Nothing was done by the Labour Government\u2014not for 1 year, not for 2 years, not until 2004. That was when Dr Nick Smith was approached by Mr Page, a 91-year-old whose wife with Alzheimer\u2019s was living in long-term residential care, to see whether he could apply for the single living alone allowance. He had tried not once, not twice, but three times, and he had been rebuffed by the Labour Government. Dr Nick Smith took it to the Human Rights Commission, and it was only then, only after that long period of time, that the Labour Government finally decided to bring this issue to Parliament. Here we are now, 5 long years later, and the Labour Government has been moved out of its lethargy, out of its stupor, and has brought in this bill, which we indeed support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EWhen we look at why Dr Nick Smith\u2019s amendment has been so cruelly struck out by the Labour Government, we see that the reason is that the proposed amendment would increase the Crown\u2019s total operating expenses and decrease the balance by an amount of $600,000. If we put that in the context of the $1 billion this Labour Government has put into the interest-free student loan scheme, or the $1.5 billion\u2014even more\u2014this Labour Government has put into the Working for Families package, thus cementing welfare dependency even further into the New Zealand psyche, then we see that it is a very small amount indeed. It absolutely typifies the mean-spiritedness of this Labour Government towards the elderly of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI see the Minister for Disability Issues, Ruth Dyson, sitting in the chair. She is not taking notice of the fact that it is her Government that has dawdled for 5 years over a clear anomaly that affects a considerable number of our elderly in New Zealand. In fact, I think about 2,100 are affected by this anomaly. When this provision is put into place, it will mean about $60 more per week for those individuals. If they are on about $200 a week, then $60 a week represents a huge amount to them. It can make all the difference in terms of the little treats and even, I should say, the necessities of life that are so important for our elderly. It seems that it is quite mean-spirited of this Labour Government not only to have ignored these people for 5 years, to have ignored the petition of Barbara White for 4 years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00227b112100445e41c689150f50efa4773d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b112100445e41c689150f50efa4773d\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a call on this bill, and for this reason. We see Government members come here fresh, bushy-tailed, and raring to go, and over time we see them get worn down, slide away, start to make mistakes, and ignore good ideas. That is what is happening with this tired, lethargic, hopeless Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EWe have here a really good idea. Superannuitants, their families, and their grandchildren are crying out right across the country for this to happen\u2014man and woman. They are standing up and saying: \u201CCan you just make this little thing happen for my grandfather, for my grandmother, for my elderly aunt?\u201D. That is all they are asking for\u2014just a little wee bit\u2014and this mean-spirited Government is not going to do it. It will not allow Nick Smith\u2019s amendment. This Government is mean-spirited. It is typical of a failing Government that has to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at what this is about. Let us take the country through this, because it is really interesting. We have a system whereby this Government has been saying for years that if one\u2019s husband, wife, or partner gets sick, it is too bad. The Government will give those people a single superannuation payment, and will not recognise the fact that they might have extra expenses. \u201CNot us\u201D, says the Labour Government. \u201CNot us\u201D, says Helen Clark. They are not going to do that. They are still going to make people pay. Well, finally, Nick Smith\u2014and congratulations to him\u2014has brought the Government to its senses, and finally it will recognise that there is a need. But it has taken too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EBut, even worse, the Government is using this thing called a fiscal impact report to reject Nick\u2019s amendment that would have allowed anybody who applied since 2004, etc., to be eligible for the living alone payment. This country looks at claims going back to 1840 in some cases. There are people who are in this Parliament for that very reason\u2014to make sure that injustices of the past are recognised. Here we have something that will cost less than $600 million. My colleague Dr Paul Hutchison talked about some of the things that this Government is prepared to spend money on. What about some of the things it wastes money on, like Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa and things like that, which the National Party has exposed? Why cannot the Government put a little bit of money aside to help our elderly folk? The Government has mean-spirited people. It is typical of a Government that is going down the gurgler.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI want to say this about Nick Smith. He is the sort of genuine Kiwi who gets on to an issue and makes it happen. He is a guy in Opposition who is making the Government do its job. He is part of the National Party caucus, which finally has got this Government to start to do something positive for the people of New Zealand\u2014not just the elderly but their families and their grandchildren, the whole of our society. I say to this Parliament: \u201CCongratulations, Nick Smith. At last you have brought a modicum of decency into this Parliament through its legislation.\u201D He has recognised something that this lazy, hopeless Government should have thought about so many years ago. How long? Is it 3 years, 4 years? It does not matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022967b10f10d184f96bd5afa3d1305d8f9\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: 5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7f72040f21a4d32b9e9f37d26ed6c04\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: That is disgraceful. It is hard to believe that people in this country who pretend to be parliamentarians do not care, for a whole 5-year period. That is amazing. I am shocked. I think I need a glass of water. I think my blood pressure is rising. I cannot believe this. How can anyone sit on that side of the Chamber and claim to represent the people of New Zealand, particularly the superannuitants, but then take 4 or 5 years to deliver?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e7896b621a94c83b339e3817b01231c\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: What about the veterans, though?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3c7749d3d744b4490618885c61c970c\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh well! Do not get me started on the veterans! I would be here all night. I would have to have some oxygen to get through the veterans case. It is bad enough dealing with just this issue. At last the Government is finally doing stuff that Nick Smith has asked it to do. The National Party supports him. Thank goodness we are here!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cee0f665c2d44f6796433e7af56f3b33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cee0f665c2d44f6796433e7af56f3b33\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E What a fantastic contribution from my colleague Mr Carter, and how true his words are. It is a disgrace that it has taken this Government so long to bring this legislation to the House, and when it did it had the full cooperation of all the other parties to bring it through in a timely fashion, because we all knew that it made sense and that it was fair and just legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBut I just want to speak tonight about one little part of it that disturbed me throughout the whole process. I cannot see many of my colleagues from the Social Services Committee here, but it was very difficult for me to get to the bottom of this part of the legislation during the select committee stage. I refer to clause 8, \u201CAbsences up to 52 weeks with aid agencies\u201D. In the information that was provided to the select committee, the case was made to change that 52 weeks because there were a reasonable number of superannuitants or veteran pensioners overseas undertaking voluntary work who were penalised for being out of the country too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EI do not have a problem with that; the problem I had was that all the information that came to the select committee members talked about a 2-year period and about the fact that the request for an extension of this time was to cover the 2-year duration of a standard Volunteer Service Abroad assignment. I was actually very happy to do that. The case was made that some people have had to take a shorter assignment because otherwise they would be penalised. I agree with all the logic in that. The question I kept asking, however, was why in this legislation we do not see a 2-year period, as all the evidence and all the requests were about. No, we see a 3-year period. I do not have a problem with whether it is 2 years or 3 years, but I take passing legislation seriously, and as a member of Parliament I want to know that I understand the reason for all the legislation that I am involved with and that I have to defend out in the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThroughout the process I could not get a valid reason for having an extension to 3 years rather than an extension to 2 years. It was not that there was any great call for 3 years. It might be a pedantic point, but I think that legislation is an important part of the role of a member of Parliament. Legislation affects people\u2019s lives, and we should have good reasons for passing laws in this country. We, as parliamentarians, need to be able to understand the reasons for them. At the very last minute, when we were getting ready to deliberate in the select committee, I was finally given a reason for the 3 years. It is because the term of our representatives overseas, our ambassadors, is 3 years. In actual fact, that is quite a different issue from what is raised in this legislation. I thought we were talking about volunteers working for recognised aid agencies overseas. That has nothing to do with people working in the diplomatic service; that is quite another issue altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBecause I had made considerable attempts to get some rationale behind the 3 years, I did not want to pursue it anymore. I must confess I gave up, but I did say that I was going to raise it during the debate. There is still not a good reason for extending it to 3 years. If there is a good reason, I ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Ruth Dyson, to take a call and explain to the Committee why there is this extension to 3 years rather than the 2 that was requested, which was backed up by the information that had come in to the select committee. Why we are we now passing something that was not called for? I hope the Minister will take the opportunity to tell us whether the answer is, as some of her colleagues are suggesting, something that we should know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u002242037163de984189be0ef1608af094b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242037163de984189be0ef1608af094b5\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be speaking in the Committee stage of this New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill. I note that no member of the Labour Party has yet taken a call, so it is really quite hard to believe that this is a Government bill. It might be a Government bill in name, but it is quite obvious that it has actually resulted from the efforts of Dr Nick Smith, the MP for Nelson, who has had the gumption to bring this bill to the House. [Interruption] We now have the member for Wellington Central\u2014perhaps for not much longer a member of the Labour Party\u2014Marian Hobbs, starting to chime in. If she would like to get up and take a call on the Labour Party\u2019s behalf, the contribution would be most welcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis is common-sense legislation, and it has been put forward by the party of common sense, the party that has the interests of ordinary New Zealanders at heart: the National Party. It really is a crime that it has taken 6\u00BD years for this bill to come before the House. Dr Smith was approached by a constituent, a Mr Page, who could not get a living alone payment because his wife was in a rest home. That really highlighted quite a bizarre anomaly. While Mr Page, who has paid taxes all his life and who is now a retiree, was living at home, his wife was in the rest home. If Mr Page had actually divorced his wife, he would have been eligible for the living alone allowance. Mrs Pettis is shaking her head over there, so I hope she will be taking a call soon, too, because she has had a lot to say during this debate about her own pension being cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6b9c0bea25d48d38e34ad686570a22e\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: No, my mother\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294efd93c810e4505988bc8b4b80c7512\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, her mother\u2019s\u2014I am sorry, I thought it was Mrs Pettis\u2019 pension. I apologise to the former member for Whanganui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis bill is all about dignity, and it is the National Party that is giving New Zealanders back their dignity. I think it is just very sad and disappointing that Mr Page had to go to his member of Parliament, who in turn had to go to the Human Rights Commission, just to get the basics Mr Page was entitled to as a taxpayer\u2014the dignity of being able to claim, as a superannuitant, that single person\u2019s allowance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI note that it is quite interesting that this legislation, put forward basically by Dr Smith, really follows a similar pattern to what we have been seeing: the National Party gets behind a piece of legislation, and suddenly it becomes Government policy and a Government bill. It is a bit like the situation where revenue from the petrol tax is now going to be put into roading. That is National Party policy, but we heard at the launch of the last Budget that the Government will be doing that. Of course, we know that before the next Budget and the next election, Labour Party members will be talking about tax cuts, because those members are on the back foot now. They are on the run, and National is dictating the agenda. I note that Mrs Pettis has no answer to that\u2014no answer at all. The interesting thing is that when the working people of New Zealand get that tax cut, the pensioners of New Zealand will actually benefit. If people had received those tax cuts National was going to deliver at the last election\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022422f1b16aaab45f58ce0518e8bc20130\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why didn\u2019t they vote for you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7144e999c5b4937b19cb9dc6c994870\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014Mrs Pettis should just listen; she will find out about her own pension\u2014pensioners would have been better off by $1,200 a year, in the hand, because the pension is based on the average take-home wage. So if the Labour Party were really serious about doing something practical for the working people of New Zealand, and also for superannuitants, it would have embraced tax cuts. That is a little bit of a digression, but it is absolutely true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe public, in regard to this bill, were outraged with the sharing expenses rule. How that worked was that if someone had fixed costs\u2014as we all do\u2014in running a household, those fixed costs were not taken into account when considering the level of allowance the person should have been paid while his or her spouse or partner was in a rest home. So this bill will extend the eligibility for that higher single rate of New Zealand superannuation, for living alone payments or veterans\u2019 pensions, to those whose spouse or partner is in long-term residential care, a hospital, or a rest home. We in the National Party think that that is absolutely just. The Labour Party has had well over 6 years to do something about the situation, but it has actually taken Dr Smith\u2019s initiative to get the bill through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00229be8b293089b4011a79f40f6febcae57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229be8b293089b4011a79f40f6febcae57\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is with absolute pleasure that New Zealand First supports Part 1 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill. As has been pointed out, the bill affects a significant number of our seniors; Dr Paul Hutchison mentioned that the number of people was in excess of 2,000. We definitely want to see the bill passed through Parliament quickly, particularly as every speaker to date has supported the bill. New Zealand First is 100 percent behind the bill, and we want to see it fast tracked through. We do not want to see it delayed, in any way. We know that developed countries around the world are assessed by how well they care for their seniors, and we must ensure that our seniors here in New Zealand can live well in their golden years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe changes that are outlined in the bill are absolutely essential. This is fair legislation, and I know that that has been mentioned by every speaker to date. So we all want to see the bill passed. New Zealand First members are very pleased that this bill removes the anomalies that exist with the living alone payment. The amendments mean that eligibility for the living alone payment will be based on actual living arrangements rather than be influenced by whether another party is making a contribution. We hear so many sad stories when someone\u2019s partner ends up in care and the remaining partner is left to cope. Unfortunately, those people are living single lives at home but they still have all the responsibilities and costs that come with a household. It is time that this issue was clarified, because we believe that people have been let down totally in this area in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EOf course New Zealand First wants to see fairer treatment for our senior citizens, and we are pleased that this is the second change we have seen in this Parliament. The first change was the raising of the superannuation rate to 66 percent of the net average wage, which we applaud. Our next change will be the introduction of the golden age card for senior citizens. New Zealand First members know that our seniors are actually waiting for that change. We know, too, that the issues that are dealt with in this bill are urgent, and people need to have them sorted out so they can get on with their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f6d35b48c8140c091e92939abbe7f93\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Keep waiting!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f55feb8cfc645819fb2d1779fae1238\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the National member on the other side of the Chamber is also waiting for his golden age card. I can assure him that after the next election he will more than likely be eligible to apply for it. So I ask him to support the golden age card at this point in time. We are looking forward to the implementation of the golden age card, and we know that that is coming through as a result of our confidence and supply agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe must acknowledge that this bill also deals with veterans, and we need to remember the enormous sacrifice veterans have made on behalf of all New Zealanders. We owe those people a great deal. I thought that speeches made by some National members in this debate were a bit rich, considering that successive National Governments would not recognise some of our veterans and would not give them medals\u2014veterans like Nancy Wake and Des Scott\u2014but I have heard that Sergeant M\u0101nahi will be recognised. There is also Lieutenant-Colonel Maloney. The Viet Nam vets have been striving for a long time to have some settlement over agent orange, and of course there are also the nuclear test vets. They are all people to whom we owe a great deal. It is worth saying that the veterans of overseas service need to be recognised, and we want to investigate ways of achieving that recognition. With the Year of the Veteran now upon us, I know that one of our priorities in that area will definitely be met. We need to ensure that veterans and superannuitants have the best possible living standards, and we do not want to see them disadvantaged, in any way. This bill goes some way towards actually ensuring that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ESo we want to see the bill passed quickly through this Parliament\u2014we do not want to see any delays\u2014and we will be supporting it every step of the way. I know that my colleague from Hamilton East, David Bennett, will definitely be very happy to see the bill passed, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe295fdd950c40f3a9507bb45634222d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe295fdd950c40f3a9507bb45634222d\u0022\u003EDr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairperson. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. I will make a brief call to reiterate the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s support for the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EEver since the beginning, elders have had a special place in our family, in our extended family, and in our community. Against all sorts of odds we are still fighting hard to keep that situation going. The key thing for us is to make sure that our elders have the opportunity to play a role in the lives of their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. That is obviously why we support the bill\u2014so that they can have a fair means by which to enjoy their later life and times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EIn fact, it was respect for elders that created the k\u014Dhanga reo movement in 1981, which saw for the first time a whole-of-New Zealand movement whereby M\u0101ori respected and followed the wishes of their elders. All over New Zealand k\u014Dhanga reo were created, quite independent of Government or any formal organisation, simply because the elders who had gathered decided that it was a good initiative that should be followed. So that is a modern example, if you like, of the status that our old people hold in our lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI point out that although we support the initiatives of the bill\u2014to extend eligibility, etc.\u2014we hope the Government is also taking the responsibility to consider other amendments, in respect of the distribution of superannuation, that take into account the disparities evident in life expectancy. For example, M\u0101ori men will die 8.2 years earlier than non-M\u0101ori men, and M\u0101ori women will die 8.8 years earlier than non-M\u0101ori women. So that means that Winston Peters, Mahara Okeroa, Ron Mark, and a few other colleagues will not be around for as long as some other members. As in so many areas of our social policy, those predetermined, arbitrary age limits, which seem to be set for fiscal reasons, generate inequities. We challenge the thinking behind those age limits, in that it creates the disparity. That is why, prior to the election, the M\u0101ori Party came out and said we should perhaps consider providing superannuation earlier to certain people, if it could be shown that those people had a shorter life expectancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party supports the bill. We would also have supported the amendment for back pay\u2014had it not been thrown away\u2014the amendment to go back to that time when people applied for back pay and were declined, and so on. But we support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00228088388101ca43b18a5580f8969d064e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228088388101ca43b18a5580f8969d064e\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill. It is good to hear that the M\u0101ori Party would have supported Nick Smith\u2019s amendment, which has, unfortunately, been vetoed. I think this is a callous Government that has actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b546247351b94605a8906a6009fb2b5c\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a rebuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e070fceaf15434a938798ae20d0bb70\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly right. That amendment should have been allowed to go through. Fundamentally, it should have been in there. It is good to see that the M\u0101ori Party is supporting National in that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI was also interested to hear Mrs Stewart, from New Zealand First, talk about the golden age card that will come in soon. I think we are all waiting to see exactly what the golden age card will deliver. Will it deliver cheaper petrol or power for those who are over 65? We will wait and see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI am from Kapiti in Horowhenua and, as members know, that region has the highest number of people over 65, per capita. We have an ageing population in Horowhenua and Kapiti, and this bill will help those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bda1652e07964a58a4936471e4e53d0f\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Including my mother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2fe553e14464c73a9793d92d978bf48\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly right. The member\u2019s mother, who resides in \u014Ctaki, may well be listening this evening, and I think she will be delighted with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ETo understand more about the bill, I recently went out with some caregivers in \u014Ctaki. They are doing a fantastic job in looking after war veterans and people who want to age with dignity in their homes, but they are not being very well rewarded. It was interesting to see exactly what caregivers do. They are friends of the people they care for. They clean for them, look after them, and get their groceries for them. They are a point of contact for them. It was great to see in the Budget that some money is to flow through to those caregivers\u2014they are to get 50c an hour. How pitiful is that for caregivers who look after those superannuitants? An hourly rate of 50c equates to about $1,000 a year. Petrol is the biggest issue for caregivers who look after elderly people in their homes. We all know that it now costs about $100 to fuel up a car. Caregivers of aged people living at home have their own vehicles to look after. They have to provide their vehicle\u2019s warrant of fitness and pay for its repairs and maintenance. Caregivers are being unfairly treated\u2014just like superannuitants with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt has taken 6 long years to get this measure through\u20146\u00BD actually, but who is counting? I guess caregivers are wondering whether they will have to wait that long before they get fairly remunerated and receive some assistance towards costs, for looking after superannuitants who live in their own homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI believe that about 2,000 superannuitants aged over 65 will qualify under this bill, which is fantastic. It will be only a small drop in the bucket, though. My arithmetic is that they will benefit by only about $20 a week. That is about $100 a month. Is that enough? I guess it is a start, is it not? It is a start in relation to rewarding those people who have been unfairly treated by an old, tired, dilapidated Government that is on its last legs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225601f073255f4e43bbfc88c7e7c17779\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re running out of ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022592cff9e96304a7cb7d69f36953fe655\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly right. Government members are running out of ideas, so it is great to see that this bill has come into the House because National and the Hon Nick Smith\u2014who has worked hard for people in his electorate of Nelson\u2014have forced the Government\u2019s hand. It has taken 6\u00BD years to get the bill to this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is also nice to see, in relation to eligibility, the extension of time from 1 year to 3 years for those who do voluntary service abroad. That is fantastic, but I am still waiting, as is the member for East Coast, Anne Tolley, for the Minister to take a call to explain why the extension to 3 years was introduced through the submission process, when there was already a huge amount of support for the eligible period to go to 2 years. Why has it been extended to 3 years? Let us hear from the Minister. The challenge is for the Minister to take a call on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201b509bd53054b0493de36902ffecc28\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: We haven\u2019t heard from anyone in Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e546632e363b425dbc2ff70b6d43c6eb\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb7358972bdf430bb7b8a4924ebcb18e\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Get Jim out of his newspaper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edaeb54d76a348f9833c2e3904e031f5\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E:They are not interested. The Government is old and tired. This bill is all about allowing those people who are over 65\u2014those war veterans who have served this country\u2014to age with dignity. Those people have looked after us and after this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c52382328e504140a022a8fbff11ba48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c52382328e504140a022a8fbff11ba48\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak to Part 1 of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill. I would like to reflect on how this bill came into being. I think it is important that we go back in time and think about how it got to be here in the Committee of the whole House today. For that, we cannot look any further than the Nelson MP, the Hon Nick Smith. We have \u201CNick for Nelson\u201D to thank for this bill, through one of his constituents, a Mr Page\u2014an elderly gentleman; I heard tonight that he was 91\u2014who did not need all the grief he got. Mr Page\u2019s wife, Mrs Page, was in residential care, but Mr Page was not given the living alone payment, because his wife recognised him. If Mr and Mrs Page had been a de facto couple, or even a gay couple, or if Mrs Page had had dementia or had been in prison, then Mr Page would have qualified for the living alone payment. It was just a bizarre set of circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ESo there we had Mr Page, an elderly man with an ill wife in long-term residential care, going to his MP, the Hon Dr Nick Smith\u2014\u201CNick for Nelson\u201D\u2014who brought the situation, finally, to the attention of the media. He took it further than that; he took it to the Human Rights Commission. It took Nick Smith\u2019s efforts to get this legislation into the House, and it is Nick Smith that we and Mr Page have to thank for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIn fact, as I heard tonight, there are over 2,000 \u201CMr Pages\u201D living in this country. Those people have been sadly neglected, and it has taken 5 years for the legislation to get to this stage. This bill recognises that it is more expensive for people to live alone. In addition, the bill recognises and acknowledges that more incidental costs are incurred when a person\u2019s spouse or partner is in long-term residential care. Those costs include travel and the other little extras incurred in making sure a person\u2019s loved one is well looked after. So this bill acknowledges the extra expenses involved when a spouse or partner lives alone and looks after a loved one who is in a long-term residential care situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis bill will also improve the lives of the veterans we have in our society. This year is the Year of the Veteran, and we have to acknowledge that. Veterans have played a huge part in developing this country. They have served their country and contributed to it. Veterans, of course, have been a dwindling part of our population since World War II. They are diminishing in number. I went on a search and did a calculation to find out how many veterans we have in New Zealand. There are about 16,600, and we have to salute them. They have worked hard and served our country well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWhile I am on the subject of veterans, I want to talk about Nancy Wake. I am terribly disappointed that this Government did not recognise Nancy Wake in the recent Queen\u2019s Birthday honours. She is a New Zealander\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1c4b2ef648142ec93ec6efe6ac3bc6c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has to address the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ef6e2ff2234d519e9352e8258a8443\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is about fairness. For partners or spouses who have loved ones in long-term care, there is an added emotional and physical burden, so I am pleased that this bill will, in many ways, help ease their financial burden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EClause 5 amends the sharing expenses rule for the living alone payment, so that the entitlement to the living alone payment is based solely on actual living arrangements, and not, as previously, on income testing or on contributions to household expenses from others, such as family members or other sources. That is fair, and I am very pleased that the sharing expenses rule has been amended. It is now fair and just. There was a lot of negative criticism about that particular rule, and I am pleased it has been amended in Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI have done some calculations, as well. I have worked out exactly how many extra dollars per week and per month veterans will actually get, in real terms. My calculation is different from that of my colleague Nathan Guy. I calculate that it is $24 per week, not $20. But he is right: it is about $100 a month, so I am not sure where we went wrong on the calculations, to differ slightly on the weekly allowance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235942524c5e94ea4819bd3c8b49357c3\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b784533f4af64437b0816861bb081822\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. That money is a start. It is not a huge amount of money, but it will go some way to helping. We have to acknowledge that it is a start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022eecef069c21e45c2a4599cc208766fd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eecef069c21e45c2a4599cc208766fd2\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002228b570b4c6cb4e35af80827a8993775d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f32b2582450443cabd6556fc4d90193\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members that the amendment in the name of the Hon Dr Nick Smith to insert new clause 6A is out of order because it has been vetoed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221906049895a14a268bbb7ea6f327a67f\u0022\u003EPart 2  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000614\u0022\u003EAmendments to War Pensions Act 1954, and consequential amendments\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u002262e7aaf0ec1744ec96f29f0de1600c54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262e7aaf0ec1744ec96f29f0de1600c54\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Part 2 particularly refers to amendments to the War Pensions Act 1954, and to other consequential amendments. As we have heard from other members around the Chamber, many veterans in this country\u2014over 6,000\u2014will be affected by this bill. That is one of the reasons why National is supporting it\u2014because we recognise the tremendous service over many decades that our service people have given for New Zealand. This Parliament is living testimony to the many wonderful deeds of our servicemen and women over the decades. The very least we can do is to increase their entitlements\u2014as this bill will do. What worries me hugely is that the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act was passed by the Labour Government in 2001, Barbara White brought her petition to Parliament in 2002, and Mr Page\u2014through Dr Nick Smith\u2014took his case to the Human Rights Commission in 2004, but only now in 2006, 5 years later, has the Labour Government woken from its stupor to finally get on with passing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EMy colleague Anne Tolley from East Coast, an excellent member of Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272e1dca02da6482ebc59fc0324c23ea8\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: That she is, an excellent member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a62d7ac9190647d08b05a9c7b5a61fe0\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014Yes, she is\u2014brought out a very important point relating to the superannuation entitlement period of Volunteer Service Abroad people. Under this bill, they have been awarded a period of 3 years\u2019 absence from this country, when all they requested at the Social Services Committee, apparently, was 2 years. I would like Mr Benson-Pope, a man of considerable largesse in this case, to take a call and explain to the House why that is so for Volunteer Service Abroad people\u2014the over 65s apparently number about 40\u2014who do wonderful work around the world, and who were given a hard time in the past because they had to come home within 52 weeks, but who now, quite appropriately, have had the time extended to at least 2 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e790dd340e405b8ba59c1ec0fb6a47\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Who in the National Party ever cared about that? Who in the National Party, like the great Nick Smith, ever cared about the volunteers? Not a soul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3aae8af712349f88478af11462d5eaa\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: We wonder what Marian Hobbs is saying. I know she is very sore about the Karori Wildlife Sanctuary, because that mean-spirited Labour Government would not support it\u2014and it did nothing about this bill for 5 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EWe had better get back on track. I ask the Hon Mr Benson-Pope to explain why he has granted largesse over and above what was requested by the Volunteer Service Abroad people but has taken 5 long years to respond to a very significant anomaly affecting many elderly people in New Zealand, including veterans. When we think that Mr Page was married for 70 years and then was told that the only way to receive the living alone allowance was to get a divorce\u2014and that was 3 years after the situation had been brought to the attention of the Labour Government\u2014we can understand why National is so concerned about the sensitivities of this almost stuporous Labour Government. Can Mr Benson-Pope explain why he has given largesse to the Volunteer Service Abroad people? It is quite right that they should be granted their request for 2 years, but why go to 3 years? Can he tell us how many of them do stay away from New Zealand for 3 years? I would think that very few indeed would do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EHowever, the really important thing is that Labour has been so tardy for so long in bringing this bill to the House. We see Mr Benson-Pope sitting there, unprepared to answer a very serious point as to why he has not responded for all those years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5de23df1ac7437ba9b91acc129fcfe9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5de23df1ac7437ba9b91acc129fcfe9\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call on Part 2, which directly addresses the amendments to the War Pensions Act of 1954, and to go through just a couple of the clauses that have been amended. There was an alteration to clause 10 because the Government had made a mistake, so not only have we waited 5 years for the legislation but when we finally get it we find a mistake. It is a mistake in the definition of \u201Cpartner\u201D. Well, I would have thought that the Government had introduced enough legislation into this House not to get that definition wrong. However\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b06a54cdf694813884ca42e305813cb\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: They did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243023f16baa44f7da0c20f63a6b9f391\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: It did, and the mistake is now being put right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb28d6163044ca0b41937935de2ddd1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the meaning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022553756058220459984089eda130f30c8\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is the same meaning as in the Social Security Act 1964\u2014so this bill does not actually tell us; we have to go away and look it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe other clause to which I want to refer briefly deals with living alone payments. We on the Social Services Committee had quite a discussion about what qualified as a residence or dwelling for a living alone payment. In fact, we asked the officials to come back to us with information on that. On the one hand we did not want to be too restrictive, but on the other hand we wanted to make sure, again, that we were creating legislation that was easily defensible, clear, and transparent. The officials came back to us with some definitions, under clause 13, of what qualified as a residence or dwelling for a living alone payment. They told us that a person had to live in a house or flat, a boat or craft moored within New Zealand territory\u2014which is very comforting for people up my way\u2014a hotel room or motel unit, a room in a licensed boarding house, or a unit of accommodation in a caravan park. So that is what we are talking about as a principal place of residence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EOur difficulties were in talking about what was defined as a residence or dwelling in relation to granny flats that are almost but not quite attached to a house, and the distinction between sharing expenses and being deemed to be living alone. In fairness to the select committee, I think that that was where most of the concern around the definition arose\u2014so that we did not have people claiming they lived alone when, in fact, their arrangements were quite different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe intent of the legislation in the changes we are making in Part 2, as in Part 1, is that the primary place of residence of the partner must be in the nature of a house or a flat, with a kitchen or kitchenette of some sort, a bathroom, a toilet, and sleeping arrangements. Consequently, if someone has exclusive use of a residence for living and sleeping\u2014a residence that contains adequate and quite distinct areas for those activities\u2014it will qualify as the person\u2019s principal place of residence in order to determine whether that person is eligible for the living alone payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EFinally, the last little piece discussed during the select committee examination of Part 2 was clause 14. My colleague Judy Turner raised the issue of whether, by allowing pensions, lump-sum payments, and allowances to be increased by Order in Council, there was any possibility those payments could, equally, be decreased in that way. I thought that it was a very reasonable question to want to be reassured on, because \u201Cby Order in Council\u201D means that the provision does not come before Parliament and the gaze of parliamentarians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAlthough we did not have a great deal of time on this bill, the select committee did spend a good deal of time looking at some of the individual clauses and their effects. It tried to make sure that the legislation was clear and transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022af99fa2dd11a4a2a983fa3980d7217d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af99fa2dd11a4a2a983fa3980d7217d0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I will not take up a great deal of the time of the Committee, but like a lot of listeners I am growing somewhat tired of the cant we are hearing from Opposition members. [Interruption] I will articulate and explain in a moment, ladies and gentlemen. I guess no one should be surprised at National\u2019s fascinating reinterpretation of history. This afternoon in the House we heard National members pretending they had not sold 13,000 State houses. Well, we know how to spell \u201Ccrocodile\u201D, and no one for a long time has believed that any of the tears on the faces of National members were other than hypocrisy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003EI would like to say to Dr Hutchison in particular\u2014who spent a great deal of time talking about how tardy this Government was in correcting this unfortunate situation\u2014and to his little acolytes, that the history goes back somewhat further than he is remembering. I am not surprised institutional memory does not exist in his party, given its various electoral results in recent times, but I say to Dr Hutchison that he needs to get his research unit to work because he will be interested to know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5dbace7489c4873b837719e8932f74d\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that got to do with the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d1f2d558f74dcdb548f975d06afd5c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: You are about to find out if you would just listen, big-ears. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293e72e4d43f49d69276cc0db9187ed7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a37a8a3d50a74b38a8720ff1d391bf06\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Peter Gresham, who was a National Government Minister in 1995\u2014I say to Dr Hutchison that it was in 1995\u2014had this policy issue investigated. Mr Gresham costed the correction this Government is now putting in place\u2014apparently supported by the National Opposition, although that is hard to believe when we hear the nonsense we are hearing\u2014and he decided, in 1995, not to do anything about it. I say to Opposition members that if they really believe that this is a policy step they need to do something about, they should stop rabbiting on about it and support what is happening right now, 11 years after their own member refused to take this step. I think that says the whole story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9009b85acf64305a9d3a59fa9ba1eb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9009b85acf64305a9d3a59fa9ba1eb3\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to take a call on Part 2, \u201CAmendments to the War Pensions Act 1954, and consequential amendments.\u201D I was very much a passenger during the process of this bill through the House, but I must admit that the way that the Minister approached his opportunity to articulate the meaningfulness of this bill brought to my memory some of the arguments made earlier on, when it very much came down to a situation of tit for tat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhen I look at Part 2, I see again that the Labour Government has been caught short while sitting on its hands, and it has been judged wanting. When we look at the issue of the veterans, we see this Labour Government has brought forward a generation of people in New Zealand who do not have a passion or a respect for the contribution that servicemen and women have made to New Zealand. It was an immense privilege to be present this year at Gallipoli, and to experience the passion and the sense of nationhood that arises from being present at that ceremony. I would recommend that to all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EHowever, one cannot see past the fact that it is important to address the anomalies. There is very little difference between the circumstances of the case that Nick Smith took to the Human Rights Commission and the conditions we see amongst our veterans today. Those men and women are aged; they are getting on in years. No doubt at times they feel that we have forgotten them and do not value their contribution. It is interesting that in Marlborough the average age of our population is higher than normal. When elderly people come to see me, they want the simple things to be done: cataracts, hips, and knees to be operated on, and footpaths to be straightened. Those people were prepared to pay the ultimate price and put their lives on the line. The least that we can do for them is to treat them with the dignity they deserve and the respect they have earned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7e6409a954d4beabb548ebdc2229e5a\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: So why did you cut their pension in 1991?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220480e45d7ecf4701a90e157b6a6b66e7\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very interesting question. When one goes into an election being told there is a $2 billion surplus, and then looks at the books and finds there is an $8 billion deficit, one realises somebody has cooked the books and so does the fiscally prudent thing. I encourage the member to narrow down her comments to the bill, as I will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe interesting aspects that are coming in include the provisions relating to absences for up to 52 weeks with aid agencies. It is very appropriate to extend that period, even though the honourable member Anne Tolley made a very fine point when asking why the amendment was for a period of over 2 years. I was quite comfortable with a period of 3 years, but I did not sit on the select committee. I found the arguments put forward by my colleague Anne Tolley very informative, and on that basis I bow to her experience. When the Minister takes another opportunity to get to his feet and speak, I ask him to address the bill and to explain to us where the period of 3 years came from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIt is interesting also to note that section 74H of the principal Act states that the chief executive of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade must determine any question that arises as to whether an aid agency fulfils the qualifications set out in the legislation. So, when the Volunteer Service Abroad people go across the seas, they still have to get approval. It makes me wonder whether, if they have approval, we should limit their time at all. I think that anybody who is prepared to leave these shores and serve where the need is great, where education is short, where a country\u2019s economic well-being is tipped upside down and in turmoil, is very similar to the veterans who have served our country so well and who will do so in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure to support this part of the bill. I take great comfort and support from the information and knowledge that has been so very evident on the Opposition side of the Chamber, and lacking on the Government side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u00223bc14df228e74badbc2ba64d727809ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bc14df228e74badbc2ba64d727809ad\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak on Part 2, which deals with amendments to the War Pensions Act of 1954 and consequential amendments to that Act. It is quite appropriate that Part 2 will deliver something in this, the Year of the Veteran. Veterans have made a major contribution to New Zealand society. They are people whom we should honour and cherish right through their old age and until their dying days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge a lady who has not been mentioned so far in this debate\u2014Barbara White. She is a lady who brought a petition to the Social Services Committee, I believe it was 4\u00BD years ago. I must say I think the Minister missed a splendid opportunity, as the sponsor of this bill, to pay tribute to that lady because it takes quite some bravery for a member of the public to come before a select committee and present a petition. I think we should acknowledge her contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI was disappointed that when the Minister spoke on this bill he did not take the opportunity to say something positive and Labour members degenerated into a stream of bile directed towards the National Party. This is legislation that all the parties are supporting and it will deliver something positive for New Zealanders. In the spirit of that legislation, this is a good opportunity to say something positive. I note, too, that this bill deals with Volunteer Service Abroad issues. I have had the honour over the past week of going on the Pacific mission with the Minister of Foreign Affairs up to Vanuatu\u2014an area of the Pacific that is really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaeac24f0dee4edf97e9905d089f0c19\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Did he behave himself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022294aad13538747b582ea8abdb681b08b\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well actually, he did behave himself. He represented us with dignity. It was an insight into the workload of Ministers. I see one Minister over there reading a newspaper. I thought Ministers would be working all the time on the plane on the way up and they would have a big red box full of papers that they would be wading through. I would like to report the Minister watched Wedding Crashers on the way up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e80913e712e24d01858d6aff44244fae\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order, that has nothing to do with the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224de82dba27b1446f90ec6ae073f6b0ab\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and did the Cook Islands Times crossword on the way back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c316864d7441b5b1d9692f3a084f3c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order, or I will terminate the member\u2019s speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aaa78a91c544b61b860705e7ba18e98\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: To get back to the subject of Vanuatu and Volunteer Service Abroad, Vanuatu is a region totally dependent on input from volunteers, and there are a number of older New Zealanders who are putting something back into the community in their retirement years by serving in places like that. It gave me great pride as the member of Parliament for Northcote to be up there for the opening of the tuberculosis ward of the Vanuatu Hospital\u2014a hospital staffed by Volunteer Service Abroad people in part. Members from my electorate were there and they had done a tremendous amount of work\u2014including Mr Ron King from Birkenhead\u2014in establishing that tuberculosis ward. It brought me a great deal of pride to be present as a member of Parliament at the opening of the ward, but I digress slightly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003ETo support the Pacific area, we need to support our Volunteer Service Abroad workers. Many of those people are retired and I think it is a very positive thing that this bill will increase the entitlement for superannuitants who want to work in Volunteer Service Abroad from the current 1 year to 3 years. That is something pretty positive. But I want to make the point that has been alluded to previously, that Mr Nick Smith has made a significant contribution in making sure this legislation came before the House. When we were talking about Part 1\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223319f78ba72843529930e34535c6bc65\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What took him so long?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022784ef16237914c8395c5c9263d28cf47\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, it is Dr Nick Smith. What took him so long? We have heard what took the Labour Government so long to get this here. We have covered that well, I say to Mrs Pettis, and this will not affect her pension entitlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f50fd3a22d344e8b8725127bc461a35\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fab6374504d4e4c84159b75e58c81fb\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Good, I know the member is very pleased about that. Dr Smith was a driving force in bringing this before the House and getting it here today. The point I made was that this was a National Party driven bill, and it has now been picked up by the Government\u2014very much in the same way that the National Party was going to take the petrol tax and put it straight into roading, and, lo and behold, that is now Government policy. Very much in the same way that at the next election tax cuts will be Government policy as well. This is another example of National driving the agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI make a further point that if we had been able to deliver those tax cuts, superannuitants would be better off by $1,200 a year in the hand. The reason for that is that the pension is based on the average wage. We know that with the tax cuts that National will deliver for all New Zealanders, the average wage will go up. [Interruption] I say to you, Mr Benson-Pope, that with your eligibility for a pension in 4 years, your pension will go up as well. So you will benefit, and when you support tax cuts at the next election, you will find that you will be better off too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc731237771147cfa9852e82bf362853\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order, you are bringing the Chairman into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002207d234dba5494c9ab10d47340fb73f5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207d234dba5494c9ab10d47340fb73f5b\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to talk to Part 2 of the bill. In particular, I want to talk about the removal of the reference to shared household expenses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6b774e43a5043458a9ae0440d3f3ba7\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c19fb98ddce84869b59d5ff858e98a47\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: It is a very important point, because removing this provision is extremely important for those elderly couples one of whom is living alone, who have been struggling as costs continue to increase. Removing the reference to sharing household expenses in terms of the living alone payment will increase it, for those single people, by $20 a week. The projected cost is only $135,000 in 2006, moving out to $150,000 in 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe significant issue, I believe, is around the submission received from Age Concern New Zealand, which stated: \u201CWhile we acknowledge the proposed amendments through the bill improve the situation and make it fairer, the changes do not address the fundamental issue, which is that many older people currently do not receive adequate financial assistance from the Government to ensure that poverty does not predetermine their health and well-being.\u201D We have seen interest-free student loans and Working for Families happen, and the elderly, over-65 superannuitants and the war pensioners have just been forgotten. This bill is finally progressing through the House now, after 6 long years of National supporting it. It has taken 6 long years for this Government to get the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI also touch on the voluntary work overseas of the Volunteer Service Abroad people, who do a fantastic job. There are about 40 of them, I believe, who work overseas and do a fantastic job\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022168b7d56a39f46ff85a4d3dda518bf5d\u0022\u003EMarian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you quibbling, then, about extending it to 3 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff4fb0849eb1448ea372f529241424c6\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: We have been waiting for the Minister in the chair, the Hon Ruth Dyson, to take a call on this issue, because we are unsure about it. The Minister has been silent on this issue, I say to Ms Hobbs. We have been trying to understand and get the Minister to talk a call as to why it has increased to 3 years. Submitters were happy for it to be extended from 52 weeks out to 104; instead, it is going out to 3 years. We would like the Minister to take a call so that we can understand exactly why that is so. The projected cost\u2014about $266,000 in 2006, moving out to about $300,000 in 2008\u2014is fantastic, but we are still unsure why on earth the Government has chosen to move it out to 3 years, when submitters came in and made submissions on extending it out to 2 years. We are still waiting for the Minister to take a call on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis bill will allow about 2,000 eligible people to age with dignity. It is great that the member for East Coast, Ms Tolley, has outlined some of the grey areas, such as whether the residential home can be a granny flat. I heard her mention it could even be a caravan, or a boat moored in seas within the New Zealand jurisdiction. This bill has taken 6 long years but finally it is here. National is here to support it after the good work that the honourable member from Nelson has done and the many other National Party colleagues who have spoken here tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b47edd4b36634cb58ab5005c866fce05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b47edd4b36634cb58ab5005c866fce05\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF)):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c6cd56eab25a48f1bad8241a74329e6d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d97baa1ccf14cd99d444453e6e4f24d\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022154667d7a5fb4bc58fc5348462d044f1\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022a383f77419674f5aac3b340db8a913bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a383f77419674f5aac3b340db8a913bf\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E We come now to the title discussion in this Committee stage of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill. I think the key point about this bill is that it restores dignity for the elderly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EWe had a situation, with regard to Mr Page of Nelson, where in order to get his single person entitlement under the legislation, he would actually have had to divorce his wife, who was in residential care. It really was a disgraceful situation that in order to meet economic needs, someone would have had to go to the length of rejecting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022051f9d79e6924ab3b602d5276cb2d3c5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is to debate the title. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a7d5dff551e40df9bca0f77ad736b18\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I thought this was an opportunity for free\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299acda370cc74049a5dd222a2d58ef81\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a free-flowing debate, but the member is bringing another issue out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c9d8ebdb6f41f8ba2372e813a858c2\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was related to the bill, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220baf2b1edaa94ea3b19c1dcc1bb805c1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: As long as the member relates that matter to the bill specifically, that is so. But the member must mention the bill and how it relates to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225720bad39834408b9d73a0180d7caff4\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The point I was making was that that gentleman, Mr Page, was the driving force behind this bill being brought to Parliament. That is why we are here. The bill could be called the \u201CMr Page of Nelson Bill\u201D because, as we know, he was the one who contacted his local member of Parliament, and that led to this bill being brought before the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI think the other point to note is that this legislation is way overdue. It was quite some years ago that Mr Page got in touch with Dr Smith. He went to the Human Rights Commission, and within a week this bill entered Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI go back to the point about restoring dignity, and I tell members that this bill affects one of the most vulnerable groups of people in New Zealand society: our elderly people. It also affects those who are probably the most honoured group in New Zealand society: veterans. I think we really owe an absolute debt of honour and gratitude to those people, who quite selflessly served this nation in conflicts overseas. The very least they are due is to be able to receive their veterans pension now without having to crawl on their hands and knees and beg the Government to make an exception for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis is a very positive day for older people in New Zealand, and it is certainly a positive day for war veterans. I know that a lot of people throughout the country will be celebrating this bill, and that a lot of those are actually people who have fallen, maybe, into a difficult period of their lives\u2014a period when their lifelong partner, their spouse, may have been admitted to a residential care facility. But now this legislation gives them some hope, and that is something we should celebrate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThere was quite a lot of public outrage at the legislation as it is stood before, in relation to the sharing of expenses rule. One of the problems with that was that it was way too strict, and it was quite arbitrary. It was strict in the sense that any external contribution to a person\u2019s income, whether it was a donation from a local group, from family, or from friends, actually compromised that person\u2019s eligibility to receive his or her superannuation entitlement. But this bill now extends the eligibility for the higher single rate of New Zealand superannuation, the living alone payment, and the veterans pension to those whose spouse or partner is in long-term residential care, in hospital, or in a rest home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe bill also increases the period of time that people who are overseas can receive their pension or war veterans benefit from 1 year to 3 years, if they choose to serve in Volunteer Service Abroad. I think, as I have already stated earlier in the debate, that that is absolutely an important contribution. It means that superannuitants are able to put something back, by serving their fellow human beings overseas as aid workers. So that is important and it will really make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe point I would make again, which has been said several times, is that Dr Nick Smith has been responsible for driving this legislation. The Government has picked it up very enthusiastically, and I believe that we are seeing that trend across Parliament in a number of cases regarding legislation. Presently however, in relation to the veterans pension legislation, people with spouses or partners\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00223c686109ebbf4a358bf46bfa82e96bc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c686109ebbf4a358bf46bfa82e96bc0\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak to the title of this bill, the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIn fact, I was stopped short; I had wanted actually to speak to Part 2, \u201CAmendments to War Pensions Act 1954, and consequential amendments\u201D, but we now have to go to the title. I was quite puzzled by the conversation about why the superannuation entitlement of 52 weeks was being increased to 3 years for those superannuitants or veterans who go and work overseas for voluntary aid organisations such as Volunteer Service Abroad. It is a bit of a puzzle, and I would have liked to hear an explanation, but unfortunately none was forthcoming. So it is a bit of a mystery why, for that one thing, this Government will be giving more not less, and will be giving more than was asked for. It would be interesting to know the rationale behind that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe veterans are an important group. I am not familiar with Volunteer Service Abroad or other voluntary aid organisations, but I am interested in the actual numbers of superannuitants or veterans who would want to work overseas for Volunteer Service Abroad or other such organisations. Are we talking huge numbers, small numbers, or what? I would like to know, just so that I can get a sense of the contribution those people make to voluntary aid organisations. I think they deserve to be saluted for the selfless work they do in Third World countries. My colleague Jonathan Coleman was talking about Vanuatu. I have not been there but I hope to go in the near future, and I will be looking at what those voluntary aid organisations do. Indeed, I will look at how this bill will help those superannuitants and veterans who wish to travel to distant locations to work for not 1 year or 2 years\u2014which is what they actually wanted the superannuation entitlement to cover\u2014but up to 3 years. It is very puzzling indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI think it is also time to acknowledge\u2014my colleague Jonathan Coleman was absolutely correct\u2014Barbara White, who brought a petition to Parliament, and was instrumental in this legislation coming forward. She got 1,500 signatures or thereabouts. Her petition was to broaden the eligibility criteria. The bill was considered by the Social Services Committee, and its report was presented to Parliament in May. So Barbara White needs to be acknowledged for her contribution to this legislation, as well as Mr Page, who went through a lot of grief, at the age of 91, when he was denied a living alone payment because his wife in care still recognised him. That was just bizarre\u2014a bizarre situation. As my colleague Jonathan Coleman pointed out, for Mr Page to get a living alone entitlement that couple would have had to divorce\u2014which is just crazy\u2014or to be de facto. As I said before, if Mrs Page had been in prison, or if the couple had been gay, there would not have been an issue. It was quite bizarre, outdated legislation, and it is right that the new provision should come into Parliament and become law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe sharing expenses rule was a great cause of concern and distress among the New Zealand public, and it is good that it has been remedied. There is no such bias any more for people who receive income from a family member or some other source. That is fair enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E I think that, overall, this is a fair bill. It brings balance back. It acknowledges the fact that it is more expensive to live alone, and also acknowledges the extra costs involved in looking after a loved one. It is very stressful having a partner or spouse in long-term residential care, and this bill goes a long way to help the emotional state of the spouse or partner not in care. I agree wholeheartedly with that, and I think the 2,000 Mr Pages in this country would agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c45d1f3d4d4b43a6a54a547f683ef7de\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s for sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd4c3701bdc413db49d4096327e2e44\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. We have to thank Nick Smith. He was instrumental in getting this bill to come to this House. Mr Page went to Nick Smith and lobbied him. Nick Smith then went to the media, but he got no traction on the issue, and he had to go, on Mr Page\u2019s behalf, to the Human Rights Commission in order that we could debate this bill here today. It will be passed, and that is a very, very good thing. This bill is for the 2,000 Mr Pages, and for all the superannuitants and veterans who want to do volunteer work in distant countries, in Third World countries, and give back something of what they have been given. Members must remember that these people have served their country, either as veterans\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c040a9ae9d3f42f09e685ca5f89c0ae0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c040a9ae9d3f42f09e685ca5f89c0ae0\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to take a call on the title clause, and draw to the Committee\u2019s attention the fact that the bill is actually called the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill\u2014which in itself is rather a mouthful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ae8d93ee38b4cad803ebe39b240d6d3\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, what was it? I missed that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ecbe04436a34307adb51e8825c49970\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I will not repeat that for the member; I am sure she is able to read it. But I just make this point: I am not sure that we have the title quite right. Somewhere in the title we should have the words \u201CThank Nick Smith and Mr Page.\u201D Those words should be in the title, because this bill would not be here if it were not for Nick Smith and the work he did on this whole issue. Nick Smith needs to be congratulated for making it happen. So I would suggest that the first thing we need to consider is whether we have the wording right in regard to saying that it is just about New Zealand superannuitants and New Zealand superannuation. I would suggest that if members had listened to this debate\u2014and I have listened very closely\u2014they would have heard that our members and others who spoke, referred to the very, very good work that our colleague Nick Smith did, and the way in which he defended his constituent Mr Page. So that is the first thing we need to put into the title, to ensure we have that aspect right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe second thing we really need to add to the title are the words \u201CLazy, Tired Government.\u201D That is what should be in there: \u201CLazy, Tired\u201D\u2014and what about \u201CHopeless\u201D, as well? We could put those words into the title, because they describe what has happened with this bill. How long has it taken for this Government to get around to doing this tiny, little thing that is so important to so many people in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252bdc62e019b42e0b20f7e69dc70b443\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: How long? Tell us how long!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec5245e34eea4a11ae0c916a46e08bbd\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, at the moment I am not sure. I heard 2 years, then I heard 3 years, and then I heard 6\u00BD years. I think it is probably around about that time. So somewhere in this title we need to put in \u201CLazy, Tired, Hopeless, 6\u00BD Years of Socialist Government\u201D. That is what we should be putting in the title, because those are the sorts of words that people, when they pick up this bill, will need to identify it by. That is the easiest way by which people will identify it. If we are to be accurate in this Parliament\u2014and I suggest that the National Party wants us to be\u2014then we really need to describe what this bill is about. It is describing the inadequacies of this Government and the fact that its members do not care about our elderly folk. They seriously do not care. There they are\u2014we have had to railroad them, force them, and drive them to take this stance on this bill. If it were not for Nick Smith and the National caucus, the bill would not have happened; we would not have been debating it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIt is a good thing that this country has the National caucus here at all. Otherwise, there would be some very distraught, distressed elderly people, as well as their children and their grandchildren. It would be a terrible place without this National caucus. We should probably put that in the title as well, actually, when I think about it. We should put words in the title such as \u201CThank Goodness for the National Caucus\u201D, as well. That would be appropriate. We could fit those words in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EMy mother is overseas at the moment, but I know that she will be listening to this debate. She will have her earpiece in, over in Brisbane where she is with my sister, listening to this debate closely and saying: \u201CThere\u2019s my boy, working for me, along with his colleagues from the National caucus. Thank goodness for the National caucus.\u201D She knows that none of those socialists over on that side of the Chamber will get this issue sorted. It is only us who will do it. We are getting it sorted out for the elderly folk in this country. Elderly folk will be in their wheelchairs and their rest home beds tonight saying: \u201CThank goodness for the National caucus, thank goodness for Don Brash, thank goodness for Nick Smith\u2014thank goodness for the National team.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EDo members know what will really disappoint our elderly folk at the end of the day? When we finally put this bill through, it will be called only the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill. Well, that is just not good enough. Seriously, if we have a title\u2014and the title is meant to explain what this bill does and what we are debating\u2014we need to add the words \u201CNick Smith\u201D, we need to add the words \u201CNational Party\u201D, and we need to add the words \u201CDon Brash\u201D. That would then appropriately reflect what this bill is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022db2a624df1e04b5598ffeb775c0fa745\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db2a624df1e04b5598ffeb775c0fa745\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am just following on from the very valid contribution from the member for Northland. I am speaking to the title, and there is no need for me to read it out, is there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250073a57a724486399425f0105a4699b\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: No, but what does it mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f453cb95ad234e9cb82ea4ff941c8cb8\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: There is no need to, I do not think. I think the amendment should be exactly what the member for Northland has just talked about\u2014the great work the National Party caucus has done in bringing this bill to the House. It has taken 6\u00BD years for this Government to get the bill to where it is today. If it were not for a constituent in Nelson and a very hard-working National MP, the Hon Nick Smith, doing great work, these changes would not have been brought to where we are at today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis bill is all about allowing the over 65s to age with dignity. There are about 6,000 war veterans in this country, many of whom will be eligible for this measure when it comes through the House. There are about 2,000 over-65-year-olds who will qualify for this measure when it goes through. It is all about long-term residential care, whether it be in a hospital or in a rest home. These people are the forgotten sector of our society\u2014they are the people who have been forgotten. Often they have served our country by going to war, and then have been forgotten. I will be interested to see, when we get to the next election\u2014either in 2008, or before\u2014whether the Labour Party will consider buying this sector of votes as it did with the Working for Families package and interest-free student loans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EBut these are wise folk. These are people who have worked hard in New Zealand and they deserve to get something better than what they are getting now. We will be interested to see and hear about the golden age card that New Zealand First is proposing, and whether it will make an iota of difference. This over-65s group are wise people. They are a bit cynical about any sort of a golden age card\u2014whether it will deliver cheaper power or a reduction in fuel costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022200d78a103d747aeb5c45f963c1d5a38\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271de45104bf84a7fa39090ccd73c05cb\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly right\u2014what power? We saw the crisis yesterday in the top half of the North Island. The power supply was diabolical, because of a dilapidated infrastructure investment over the last 6\u00BD years. Many of our war pensioners have been shivering in their homes because of a shonky Government not investing in infrastructure. There are some big issues that we will have to address when we get on to the Treasury benches in the next term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo, just to sum up, this bill is about allowing the aged sector to age with dignity, with the support of this bill. It is a shame it has taken 6\u00BD years to get here. These people deserve better\u2014the ones who have gone to war for this country, and those who have been forgotten and neglected. This bill goes some way to addressing that\u2014it provides about $60, when I look at this chart here. It is interesting, is it not, that one now has to be married or in a civil union. The chart shows that the net wage for a married or civil unionised couple\u2014that is very modern language\u2014will move from $203 to $263. That is an increase of $60, which is fundamental for a sector that has been forgotten. I am happy to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u002284825e46467f49928799d2cfe375235b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284825e46467f49928799d2cfe375235b\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022409e2f784ece4c00b68f101b361612e3\u0022\u003ESupplementary  .\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000718\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill, and the War Pensions Amendment Bill, pursuant to Order Paper35\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000719\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022409e2f784ece4c00b68f101b361612e3\u0022\u003EHistoric Places Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b2fc09e2aa3a4a08b8accb3cdffb2b4c\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb9f8cbd860a4e9bb40b45235f57defc\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00224013b2a3f95b4ca59bd75fc5c0b38d61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224013b2a3f95b4ca59bd75fc5c0b38d61\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E As the National minority report on the Historic Places Amendment Bill states, National opposes this bill. We have two primary concerns with it. The first relates to the board membership, which results in a predominance of ministerial appointments\u2014increased from three out of 11 to six out of nine. I submit that is completely contrary to the scheme of all the legislation that has dealt with historic places in this country from the time of the establishment of the Historic Places Trust in 1954. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EPerhaps a little bit of legislative history is required to show just exactly what I am talking about. On 20 July 1954 the then Acting Minister of Internal Affairs, Mr Holyoake, moved the second reading of the Historic Places Bill. In Hansard, Volume 303, at page 554 he discussed the membership of what was then to be called the National Historic Places Trust. It was to be a very carefully constructed membership of 11 members. The two departments directly concerned were to be represented by the Secretary for Internal Affairs and the Director-General of Lands, then a number of other persons were to represent the various interest groups around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EMr Duncan Rae, the then member for Parnell\u2014a good National member who was responsible for that legislation\u2014in his second reading speech, at page 557, emphasised the importance of a good mix when it came to the membership of the trust. He said that the chairman of the trust should be elected by the trust and not be a Government officer or an officer of a department. Further on, he stated: \u201CWe strongly feel that the Trust should be seen to be not just another branch of a busy Department, for in such a situation there will not be the financial nor material support coming forward that we hope the Trust will have.\u201D That is the reason why there were 11 members on the board, which was made up of representatives of various interest groups and, above all, was not dominated by ministerial appointments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe same theme emerged in 1992 when the Historic Places Bill was the subject of debate. I refer to what the Hon Denis Marshall said in Hansard, Volume 524, at page 7859. He said that the trust board was to be reduced from 15 to 10 members and that the positions representing Government departments were to be abolished, as were to be a number of other nominated provisions. He emphasised the voluntary nature of the Historic Places Trust and the huge contribution made to the preservation of historic sites and historic buildings by enormous numbers of people throughout the country. He said: \u201Cthe trust is not merely a statutory quango. It has more than 23,000 fee-paying members and an effective body of voluntary workers who form a network of district committees.\u201D That is why section 42 of the Historic Places Act 1993 sets out the board membership that it does: a person who is to be appointed chairperson, two persons who are M\u0101ori and have skills or knowledge appropriate to the functions of the trust, three persons who are to be elected by the trust\u2019s members, and five persons who have various other skills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut what we have in the proposed amendment to section 42 is the creation of a statutory quango\u2014one that is dominated by the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage. National says that is thoroughly undesirable. Six members should not be appointed by the Minister, with three elected by members of the trust. If anything, it should be the other way round. The volunteerism and the contribution made by huge numbers of volunteers throughout the country need to be recognised. What we are saying traces back to the very foundations of the then National Historic Places Trust in the mid-1950s. That is one of the primary reasons why National is totally opposed to this part of the bill. It undermines the principle of volunteerism. It more or less discards the huge contribution of volunteers to the preservation of our historic sites and historic buildings over the last 50 years, and simply puts in its place a statutory quango. That is totally unsatisfactory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4b1cbf2534d44ccba73b4f3d7ed5281\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4b1cbf2534d44ccba73b4f3d7ed5281\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I follow on from my learned colleague in opposition to this part, on a number of grounds. The first one, which is totally fundamental to our opposition, relates to the principle of democracy. Democracy has but one weakness: it requires participation. The only reason people become involved in a Crown advisory organisation such as the Historic Places Trust, which I guess could be described loosely as a non-governmental organisation, is that they feel as though they will be carrying out a meaningful occupation or use of their time. When the State intervenes in the way proposed in this bill, which will reduce the number of elected board members\u2014those people in the public sector who are seen to be learned enough to be involved in such an organisation\u2014from 11 to nine, and imposes on an organisation those whom it deems to be suitable persons, rather than acting in partnership, which this Government talks about at great length, then we have a total undermining of the very essence of why people get involved in organisations such as this one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThis Government needs to step back from its socialist roots for 5 minutes, ask why New Zealand has been so successful under successive democratically elected Governments, and compare this country with nations around the world where the total dominance of the State has had a major role. It should adopt that principle right here in this legislation and move away from its \u201Cwe know best\u201D attitude. The Government thinks its members in Wellington, the learned left of the Labour caucus, know best when it comes to what a historic place is. It thinks they know how to dominate the scene, as it were, in terms of what is significant to protect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe Government thinks its members in Wellington, who aspire absolutely to the principles of Moscow or of foreign nations other than those that New Zealanders love, should tell the people of the Historic Places Trust how they should manage their business. What is worse is that the Government will find a Minister who, of course, has no knowledge at all of these issues, or will certainly not be from mainstream New Zealand, and it will appoint that person to be the sole guardian of what happens with regard to those activities. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E I say to the Minister in the chair, Judith Tizard, who is trying to interject, to take a call, explain the Government\u2019s point of view, and win the debate; do not just ram it through with numbers in an undemocratic way. She should stand up and tell us why she thinks this is the best way forward for the Historic Places Trust. Up to this point in time nobody on this side of the Chamber has been able to receive or understand a reasonable explanation as to how this bill will bring about a panacea to determining the issue of what the average New Zealander would see as a historic place\u2014that is, something that should be preserved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI give the Minister the example I gave in the first reading of this bill. In Taranaki there are multiple dairy factory sites. Those dairy factories were built by English engineers, generally speaking, and were designed to last for 400 years. They were used for about 60 or 70 years, and then abandoned by the industry. That was the industry\u2019s decision. Most of them are now in private ownership. Those buildings could be deemed to be historic, but they are not. They are all being bowled over, one after the other. It is quite probably the right thing to do, but because the workforce in those factories was predominantly M\u0101ori, there are bound to be buried M\u0101ori artefacts around them. The building itself may not be historic, but the artefacts probably are; I do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EOf course, at the end of the day, under the regime that is being proposed in this bill, one of those things or the other could be deemed to be historic. Therefore, any major development that is likely to go ahead in the Taranaki area could be halted or otherwise have a further compliance cost placed on it, because some ministerial group in Wellington\u2014which would not even know where Taranaki is, let alone know what an abandoned dairy factory might be like, or know about any artefacts that may be buried around it\u2014will be able to say that should happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u002295b831930da14ccfa951deffba44c3fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295b831930da14ccfa951deffba44c3fd\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E One of the standards by which we need to judge political parties is the consistency of their stance, and particularly their philosophical consistency. I want to give a bit of background to the point I am trying to make. Recently I was reading the report back from the Education and Science Committee on the Education Standards Bill, from some years ago. Alec Neill gave the bill its name. One of the things that bill did was to set up the New Zealand Teachers Council, and one of the things it charged the council to do was to establish a code of ethics for teachers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThe original bill said that the code of ethics then had to be approved by the Minister. New Zealand First, I have to say to Mr Ardern, was able to convince the Labour Party to step back from its socialist roots, in the name of professionalism, and to come away from that particular stance. New Zealand First was even able to convince the Alliance to step back from its ultra-socialist roots. We were not able to convince National to move back. The minority report states that National insisted that the Minister should have to approve the code of standards for teachers that was established by that body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003ENow I come to this particular bill, and I ask where the consistency is in National\u2019s stance. National is saying that rather than outside organisations having the majority power to appoint members to a body that is really fulfilling national tasks, or the Government\u2019s tasks, and certainly it is funded largely through the taxpayer\u2014that, no, no, it should not be the elected representatives of the people who put those people on the board\u2014it should, in fact, be people who have been elected by some 25,000 members of bodies. New Zealand First says there is an inconsistency in National\u2019s stance on both of those positions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThe second inconsistency is that this bill will cut the number of members of the Historic Places Trust. We hear, day after day, members from that side of the Chamber saying that we need to cut back on the number of people in such positions, across the board. We have all these so-called party hacks who are being put up to those positions, they are costing the taxpayer oodles and oodles of money, and it is irresponsible to the taxpayer. Yet when the Government finally comes up with some legislation to cut the numbers, National says: \u201CNo, no, you can\u2019t do that. We\u2019ve got to keep the numbers as high as possible.\u201D What New Zealand First is saying is that there is a total inconsistency in the position that the Opposition has taken. It is trying to play the old first-past-the-post politics. The Opposition still does not understand that we are now in an era of MMP. We have been since 1996. It is something that the National Opposition still does not seem to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209dcfa95c80c42858f3e6b99e95c5a66\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Is that what this speech is all about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de89e81e42f4811a1dccd5dd487880e\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY\u003C/span\u003E: It is not about that. It is about the fact that National has not come to grips with MMP. New Zealand First has come to grips with MMP. We heard in the debate on the last bill how National had achieved something. We will give it full credit for achieving that. The one thing that National has achieved in 7 years is that it has led a debate, quite justifiably, around some legislative changes that were needed. That is the one thing that all the people who voted for National have got. For the people who voted for National in 1999, in 2002, and in 2005, that is it. That is as good as it gets. National is being inconsistent in its approach. It is not trying to play constructive politics, which MMP demands. New Zealand First says that that will not help things. [Interruption] At least I did not have to go back to Holyoake to get my quotes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThere is another part of this bill that New Zealand First completely and utterly agrees with. It is the part that changes the definition of the members who are to be appointed under it. I want to read what the clause says: \u201CAt least 3 of the persons appointed under subsection(1)(b) must, in the opinion of the Minister after consultation with the Minister of Maori Affairs, be qualified for appointment, having regard to their knowledge of te ao Maori (Maori worldview) and tikanga Maori (Maori protocol and culture).\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First totally agrees with that way of putting legislation. The focus is upon the knowledge, the understanding, and the skills that are to be brought to the task, rather than on the ethnicity. I am speaking of this because there is a Green Party amendment that says the persons who are appointed under this particular legislation have to be ethnically M\u0101ori. The logic of this is that Kiri Te Kanawa could not sit on the board of National Opera of New Zealand because she is not Italian. When we think about it, she does not have Italian genes. That is exactly the same logic that is behind this particular provision. We know that Inia Te Wiata was an expert in opera. He also carved the pou at New Zealand House. I have heard from people in the know, and I could be wrong but I am just saying this\u2014it is something I have heard; it is hearsay\u2014that he did not have a great deal of knowledge about carving, and the history and traditions behind carving. The logic of this says that he should be able to have input into an area that he did not have a great deal of expertise in, because of his ethnicity, but he should not be able to be on the board of any organisation that was making decisions around opera, in which he was world renowned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EWe could take it even further\u2014to the stupidity of the logic that flows from this amendment. Turi Carroll could not have become Acting Prime Minister of New Zealand, given that the Westminster system grew from the British experience. That is how stupid this particular legislation is. In fact, it probably also says that the 80 percent of the Kiwi rugby league team who are Samoan should not be able to play rugby league because it was born in the north of England. That is ludicrous, and it is ludicrous to define who can or cannot sit on boards because of the peculiarities of their DNA. It is their life experiences and the knowledge that comes from that which is the important factor. New Zealand First has to confer with the wording of this part of the bill because it is something that we, and particularly our leader, have been arguing for, for many, many years. Thank you, Mr Chairman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u00223e3639bb812c4cfa814ce7b8c9ce4e96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e3639bb812c4cfa814ce7b8c9ce4e96\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would just like to draw attention to two amendments that the Green Party has proposed to the Historic Places Amendment Bill. The first one, as the previous speaker pointed out, is an amendment to clause 19 to require a person who is representing M\u0101ori on the Historic Places Trust to be M\u0101ori. This bill proposes that a person who represents M\u0101ori on the Historic Places Trust no longer has to be M\u0101ori. The Historic Places Trust, the M\u0101ori Heritage Council, and other submitters opposed this, but the Government Administration Committee chose to ignore their submissions. What this really does is set a new precedent for what is M\u0101ori. This precedent, once established in this legislation, could extend throughout legislation in New Zealand. No justification or reason for this redefinition of what is M\u0101ori is given. We can only assume that it is part of the post-\u014Crewa backlash. The implication is that non-M\u0101ori can advocate for M\u0101ori issues just as well as M\u0101ori can. This is like saying that we no longer need to have women in various positions\u2014that we can just have men as long as they have a bit of an understanding about women\u2019s issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EAs many have pointed out, the submitters said basically that in order to be M\u0101ori one needs to have whakapapa. The M\u0101ori Heritage Council said that whakapapa is the foundation of M\u0101ori identity as tangata whenua and that it is crucial that the relationship between M\u0101ori and their historic and cultural heritage is retained. The Greens agree with that, so we think this is really just a new and completely unjustified redefinition of what is M\u0101ori. In fact, the bill comes up with an entirely new definition of who is M\u0101ori and who is not. Maybe all P\u0101keh\u0101 could be on the M\u0101ori roll in the future as long as they have a knowledge of what is M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe other amendment is to clause 16. Under this bill, the Historic Places Trust board would be given discretion about whether it would impose an interim protection order when it is publicly notifying a review of a change of category\u2014say, from category 1 to category 2 status. We are concerned that giving the board this discretion could effectively amount to a loophole that would mean that in the future the board would not have to impose any interim protections or injunctions. So we have a very small, but important, amendment that states that the trust would have to issue a protection order unless it put up a very good reason as to why it would not want to do that. This would mean that it would not be absolutely necessary to require a protection measure for historic places undergoing a category review, but that if the trust did not do that, it would have to give a good reason for doing so. This amendment eliminates what could effectively be a loophole and says the trust has to put up reasons when it will no longer provide protection measures for historic places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe need to remember that in this bill we should really be doing a fundamental review of the Historic Places Trust. We should be asking ourselves why so much of our heritage has been bulldozed while the Historic Places Trust has been in place. Why is the trust so toothless? Why have entire sections of our country been bowled while the Historic Places Trust has wrung its hands and apparently done nothing? Really, we should in this bill be giving the trust some teeth and some strength in order to really protect our heritage. It is unfortunate that the bill does not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u00222f92e29d084045d99796a98d0cbe1047\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f92e29d084045d99796a98d0cbe1047\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National):\u003C/span\u003E In relation to the tirade that Brian Donnelly subjected the House to, I want to quote a past colleague of his, Jim Peters, who I think was a very worthy member of this House, and who said during the first reading of this bill: \u201CThe Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, who introduced the bill, spoke about the excellent work done by the chairperson of the board. Furthermore, the previous member told us about the numbers of volunteers out there who are doing excellent work. All of that would presuppose that the Historic Places Trust Act passed by the National Party Government in 1993, which includes all these issues,\u201D\u2014and there are others he referred to\u2014\u201Chad no need of amendment.\u201D Then he asks: \u201CSo why is there an amendment bill before us with a few little issues for us to look at?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ESo I just want to try to cover what I thought was a tirade by Brian Donnelly\u2014a lot of which was totally off this bill. National is very clear as to why we oppose it. Brian Donnelly represents a party that supposedly sits in the middle\u2014although, of course, since its coalition with the Labour Government, it probably sits more on the left now. National is very clear about the value of having people from the community contributing to this very important area of our history. Our opposition in relation to the membership of the board is about the undue weight that will now be given to those members who are appointed by the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThat was never the case before. Now, the membership of the board will reduce, and the majority of the members will be appointed by the Government. That smacks of typical socialist interference, and nothing that has happened to date, since the original bill was enacted, would suggest that that is a necessary amendment. I would have thought that Brian Donnelly, whose party supposedly sits in the middle, and is supposedly the people\u2019s party\u2014that is how their leader likes to represent it\u2014would have seen the error of this Government\u2019s amendment in this way. There will be a reduction in members, and the majority will now be appointed by the Government. It will put its cronies on. I would have thought that Brian Donnelly would not want that, but clearly he has totally sold out to the left because it suits them at this point. But it is a disappointment nonetheless. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EHe has tried to misrepresent National\u2019s position. Our position is purely that we recognise that the Act, as it stands, worked well. It had a majority of people not appointed by the Government. It worked well. The Minister even recognised that in her first reading speech, yet here we have typical socialist Labour Government beefing up the membership by their own appointments. There is no call for it. Nothing that has happened in the last decade has shown that that was necessary. We oppose the bill steadfastly on that point, and we will not be moved from that. There is no need for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe other reason, of course, which my colleagues have already referred to, relate to the issues around w\u0101hi tapu. I just want to refer to the contribution given by the Green member Sue Kedgley. They seek to have the current position in the Act retained, by which the members must be M\u0101ori. Brian Donnelly can demean or rubbish the suggestion that ethnicity is not necessarily important, but if one looks at the provisions in the Act that talk about w\u0101hi tapu and the need for the trust to make judgments around w\u0101hi tapu, one can see that it would be very difficult indeed\u2014and National is still open on this matter\u2014if one did not have M\u0101ori blood, whakapapa, because so many of the issues surrounding w\u0101hi tapu do depend, in my view, on an understanding of those genealogical links.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3a7b4e5a58b4526aace757d7040e563\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3a7b4e5a58b4526aace757d7040e563\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a call on Part 1 of the Historic Places Amendment Bill, because there has been a great deal of rather confused debating on the issue. This legislation is about strengthening the Historic Places Trust, which has had significant funding increases over the 6\u00BD years of this Labour-led Government. I thank the Hon Brian Donnelly for his support in this work, because he too cares about New Zealand\u2019s heritage, particularly our built heritage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI understand how anxious people are that those with an interest in heritage across New Zealand are well represented at this important organisation. But I was truly astonished when the National Party described Dame Anne Salmond, John Acland, Tumu te Heuheu, Te Aue Davis, and the other astonishingly able New Zealanders as Government cronies. It is just a ludicrous idea that those people, whom I had the honour to appoint in many cases, are Government cronies. It is truly astonishing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI point out to the National Party that the Hon Nick Smith, when he was Minister of Conservation and in charge of the Historic Places Trust, did a really important and useful thing. He forced the Historic Places Trust to regionalise. As a result, we now have much stronger regional organisations in the trust. Unfortunately, the Hon Nick Smith was never able to persuade the National Government to properly fund the Historic Places Trust. As a result, although the trust regionalised, it then had severe problems at the central level with delivering on the increased interest that New Zealanders expressed across New Zealand about preserving our historic places. So in this legislation we are making sure that the vastly increased funding is properly accounted for and that the Historic Places Trust, as a result of the important work it is doing regionally, can come back and advise the Government. The role of the Historic Places Trust is less hands-on now, and much more about advising the Government\u2014and, indeed, select committees and other groups\u2014about the policy we need in order to extend this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EOne fabulous example I can give the Committee is the work the Historic Places Trust did in preserving the Kerikeri Basin. We now have significant funding going into a roading project there, because the stone store and the camp house were severely at risk of being washed away in a flood. The vibrations of the massive amount of traffic going round and across the bridge over the fiord were causing severe damage. This area is an important part of New Zealand\u2019s heritage. The Historic Places Trust is applying that sort of analysis to the risk that much of our heritage faces, and it is coming back to the Government with sensible proposals, including policy changes relating to how we can do better in this whole area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003ESo we should give credit where credit is due, but the funding needs to be accounted for. This Government is determined to go on representing those fabulous volunteers across New Zealand, who are the people who make the local decisions, and making sure that that is defended and supported with Government money and good policy. That is what this legislation is about. The idea that the people who are appointed by the Government to the Historic Places Trust are Government cronies is, frankly, offensive, and I really do take deep exception to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI go on to the other issue raised by the National Party, which was around w\u0101hi tapu. I say to National members that I am astonished at this attack on places like burial sites, sites associated with births, deaths, and other major occasions, sites associated with ritual and ceremonial worship, healing places, and battle sites. I am astonished that those places, because they are important to M\u0101ori, should somehow be opposed. I find it astonishing that the National Party is attacking those places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003ELast but not least I say to National members that I was at a forum in Auckland where two of the National Party spokespeople on this area gave an undertaking to Auckland people who were interested in heritage and culture that there would not be stupid, petty, party-political attacks on pieces of major, important legislation to do with our cultural and heritage well-being. I am disgusted at the sorts of attacks that are coming from National members. It is like the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra Bill all over again. We had to ring the National Party leader because this group of idiots was saying to us that they were going to oppose that bill. It is time the National Party took a responsible attitude to our heritage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u002203f9e013b02d404b885ae54f8fd52771\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203f9e013b02d404b885ae54f8fd52771\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chairman. Kia ora t\u0101tou i te Whare. There are a number of issues that I would like to speak to in respect of the Historic Places Amendment Bill, but I would also like to speak in general terms about our concerns as to where this Government is taking things in respect of M\u0101ori. I am talking about the Budget, where the increase for things M\u0101ori was minus\u2014there was nothing for M\u0101ori in the Budget. I am talking about the fact that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s primary function of monitoring has been dropped away to almost zero\u2014to a point where its role in determining whether other agencies are delivering to M\u0101ori has been reduced to zilch. I can think of a situation where the Government is determining what will now be a p\u014Dwhiri and what will not be a p\u014Dwhiri, and what will be a whakatau and what will be a p\u014Dwhiri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn this bill Labour has decided to take out the requirement for there to be M\u0101ori on the board, and instead put in people who are not M\u0101ori. To give non-M\u0101ori the opportunity to be appointed to those positions flows very much with Labour\u2019s policy of the ongoing demeaning of M\u0101ori. I point across to my own colleagues Mr Dover Samuels and Mr Mahara Okeroa, both Associate Ministers who, when their Minister was out of the country, were not even given the opportunity to speak to those portfolios. It seems as though this Government is quite happy to use M\u0101ori in its various performing functions, but when it comes to delivering for M\u0101ori it is simply not there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI also look at what is happening with this Government in terms of the bureaucracy it is growing here, and the philosophy it has of recentralising control into the hands of Government departments. I am thinking in terms of prisons. The Government shut down the private prison that was doing a better job than that done by State prisons for more than 100 years. One private guy was given the opportunity to run a private prison. He did a good job, and the prison was shut down. I think of the district health boards and of how the Government is recentralising a lot of the regional contracts back into the hands of those boards and increasing the conflict of interest by allowing the funder to also be the provider. I think of the education contracts that used to be out with kura and that are now being taken back into the colleges of education\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aef92379d5d74cfda3d192fbf86ec255\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fadef94456c4dcc981332d227092f6c\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: I come back to this bill, Mr Chairperson, and refer to people who are not M\u0101ori determining whether the board is acting in the best interests of M\u0101ori. That is like assuming that rats born in a kennel know what it is like to be a dog. It is the silliest argument I have ever heard. Yes, the Minister can talk about Tumu te Heuheu and about Te Aue Davis. And, yes, they are rangatira\u2014there is no question about that\u2014but no longer are they guaranteed positions on the board she is talking about. So I ask her please not to talk about them as though they are great and important people if she is not prepared to recognise them in legislation. In fact, not only is she not prepared to recognise them in legislation but she has deliberately taken them out, through her legislation. So we do not accept that this bill is in the best interests in any way, shape, or form of advancing the interests of M\u0101ori people in terms of historic places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ENeither do I see, apart from the giving of a little bit more money, where the bill strengthens the activities of the Historic Places Trust or the board\u2014simply because I note from the comments made by the board itself, the Historic Places Trust, and the trust\u2019s M\u0101ori Heritage Council that the Minister did not even bother to listen to the recommendations they made. I think it is important that those issues be pointed out, because the M\u0101ori Party stands to defend the rights of M\u0101ori at all times. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u0022b10ac16e43a54efbb18b91e96b409f8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b10ac16e43a54efbb18b91e96b409f8b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E As that matter has been raised by a number of speakers, I will address it directly. The State Services Commission now recommends that rather than define the racial characteristics we require of individuals, we describe the interests and the knowledge we require of individuals to apply to legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EOne of the points I would like to make is that some 5 years ago when I was asked by Cabinet to seek a new chair for the Historic Places Trust, I went to a number of kaum\u0101tua and kuia around Auckland and New Zealand and asked them for their opinion of who would make a good chair of the trust. This trust is absolutely vital to all New Zealanders for all of our shared heritage and for all of the heritage that each group brought to New Zealand both before and after the Treaty of Waitangi. Dame Anne Salmond was recommended to me by M\u0101ori leaders as somebody who understood the shared heritage and, indeed, who had done a great deal to explain to P\u0101keh\u0101 the importance of, for example, M\u0101ori oral history. I am not suggesting that Dame Anne Salmond alone should represent M\u0101ori views, but I do not agree that anyone required, as in this legislation, to have knowledge of M\u0101ori heritage and M\u0101ori spiritual values should necessarily be M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EIndeed, on the subject of M\u0101ori being excluded, I want to point out one of the other changes that was made in 1993 by Doug Graham and others to create the M\u0101ori Heritage Council as a body equal with the Historic Places Trust. So M\u0101ori are represented in this organisation as an integral part of the organisation, and the legislation that defines the purpose of this legislation states that M\u0101ori heritage is central to it. Again, I want to thank the Hon Brian Donnelly for his lucid support of this legislation. No, not everybody on the Historic Places Trust agreed with that change, but this legislation does bring it into line with other legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI want to address the other issue that is on the Green member Sue Kedgley\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, which is that the trust must apply section 194 of the Resource Management Act to an application. I am not ever happy that we force registration on every owner. We are getting to the stage where I think New Zealanders genuinely do take pleasure and see value in historic heritage registrations, but I am not happy that, given that the Government Administration Committee considered this matter, the Green Party now wants to change the bill without proper consideration. We can do a lot of damage in this kind of legislation. We sometimes find people refusing, for example, to divulge heritage values because they fear it will limit their commercial and ownership rights. I am very happy, of course, to promote the Supplementary Order Paper that I propose, which merely changes the date, but in general I am opposed to those amendments proposed by the Green Party, because the select committee did not find in favour of them. With those comments, I commend this bill to the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u002267a03fd2430e4b8dbe8a45638aba577f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267a03fd2430e4b8dbe8a45638aba577f\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak against the Historic Places Amendment Bill. I am disappointed that the bill has come to this Committee stage still containing the aspects that were previously considered unsatisfactory by this side of the Chamber. I guess to some extent the reality is that in expecting change from the present Government, with its ideological mindset, it is the expectancy that is at fault, for it is clear that the Government is locked in pursuing not the interests of Parliament, of a balanced debate, or of the country, but only its own ideological programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIf we needed any clearer indication of the Government\u2019s being besotted with its own agenda to the exclusion of all else, we need only examine its response to the power blackout of yesterday. At best, its response could be described as bland. It is as if the Government would prefer that the blackout had not happened but, as it has happened, has no intention of accepting ministerial responsibility or acknowledging that it is looking at a symptom of infrastructural disease caused by the last 6 years of neglect. Fixing this sort of problem is not on the ideologically driven agenda of Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EHow do we see the Government\u2019s ideological bent displayed on this particular issue? The unacceptable and unexplained part of the bill is the sweeping change to the membership of the Historic Places Trust, in two ways. Firstly, the number of trustees is being reduced from eleven to nine. Secondly, of the nine trustees six will be appointed by the Minister. Why does the Minister need to have such a dominant effect on the appointment of trustees? My caucus colleagues have given details of the initial legislation that brought this trust into being. It was never perceived to be a plaything of a Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe Government seems intent on taking control of every aspect of life it can, in ever-increasing measures. Indeed, I was told the other day [Interruption]\u2014and the party Mr Donnelly belongs to helps the Government\u2014by someone on the West Coast, a really good philosophical West Coaster, that there are not many avenues in life left where the Government has left any life. The Government consumes everything, and this measure is akin to many of the regulatory stands it has taken\u2014for instance, the food and safety regulations. Increasingly, Government-controlled agencies seek to permeate the fibre of our society to ever greater degrees, coming ever closer to controlling individuals in each aspect of their lives\u2014because that, I think, is what it would like to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe change to ministerial control of this trust is not justified. It is not even explained, beyond the statement that it \u201Cbetter reflects the funding arrangements\u201D for the New Zealand Historic Places Trust. This completely overlooks the value of having independent trustees and the time-honoured checks and balances and the input that independent trustees bring to organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EAnother concern with regard to these appointments is that it is now a matter of compulsion not just that three members have expertise in matters M\u0101ori but that three members be M\u0101ori. Again, it is not the aspect of ethnicity that concerns me; it is the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228256aba2e466466c8e2ee096f9d38623\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not exactly consistent with what Georgina was saying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022145f9633500b42309ca960665ccd3ac0\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: The member has not let me finish, but then he never does. It is consistent with what Georgina has said, because my concern is not\u2014as I was just saying\u2014with the ethnicity of the make-up of the trust; it is with the Labour Party\u2019s absolute fixation with compulsion. It permeates everything. I heard today that it will now be compulsory for people to declare when their dog dies, and that those who do not do so will face a $100 fine. I have not verified it yet, but I understand that that is to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022461f96e0961e4bb08fd36ec71242dcb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022461f96e0961e4bb08fd36ec71242dcb9\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223368df040d474a848e8ef41bb405864a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000778\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 33 in the name of Sue Kedgley to clause 16 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228229df6f15fb4e8fb7ada43926c55e90\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000779\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 33 in the name of Sue Kedgley to clause 19 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fb1ab0c7d0a4454d8d44222ae8b6a630\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224d65609ff71f4e64ba04fc60d0f0fb69\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000780\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000781\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000782\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the New Zealand Superannuation and Veterans\u2019 Pensions (Entitlements of Spouses and Partners of People in Long-term Residential Care and Remedial Matters) Bill with amendment, and that the Committee had divided it into two bills, progress on the Historic Places Amendment Bill, and no progress on the Protected Objects Amendment Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000783\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200606133eb6a6a01a774ea4b8950e89a7d00780000784\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.58 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"