"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022538e5d339a744be7b4a604984aa9c0fd\u0022\u003EWednesday, 21 June 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc17e7c8f1334276bcef620733b942bc\u0022\u003EWednesday, 21 June 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022febbe6807b944db89bd03ae25d742108\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3ceb203878b418caf2b2ee9cc3e3d2e\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ffeb65713f541eda463e6ea2e3230fc\u0022\u003ETaxation\u2014Australia - New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d90593e1434706985c79dc49b38042\u0022\u003E1. JOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Minister of Revenue\u2019s assessment that \u201COur major trading partner, Australia, is already looking at significant tax cuts to both business and private incomes in next year\u2019s Budget and we simply cannot afford to ignore what Canberra is planning.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00224be4bdcfcd81433b8782e6881f58ab4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224be4bdcfcd81433b8782e6881f58ab4d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The excellent Minister\u2019s statement last December was made referring to the 2006 Australian Budget, which did not reduce business taxation significantly, despite earlier expectations to the contrary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550f233cbacb4f6096c9463db9d4ddb5\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the Statistics New Zealand data released today that show net migration from New Zealand to Australia has doubled over the last 3 years, and now, on average, 650 people a week shift across the Tasman; does he consider the growing after-tax wage gap between the two countries to be one of the significant driving forces behind those trends?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ececd0dedaa74b23af6babbf14af5938\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, not yet. I have, however, seen the data for the 1990s, which show that every year out-migration to Australia increased, peaking at a 40,000 out-migration, despite the fact that there were two rounds of tax cuts, following which out-migration increased on both occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e749e0268fa45b9bb2dce6428ad8929\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any advice on why statutory corporate rates do not provide an accurate representation of the overall rate of corporate taxation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd4be607d454985bbdc60669d269922\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have been advised that many of our major trading partners, including Australia, levy on business such taxes as comprehensive capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, and stamp duty on commercial transactions, in addition to company tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a0a0c787a4b40fab0c93a354aaf6816\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of the latest figures showing that the gap between the take-home income of the average Australian worker and the average New Zealand worker, which is currently 33 percent, will in 10 days\u2019 time widen, when the new Australian tax rates become effective, to a gap of 37 percent; can he tell the House what he will do to address that yawning chasm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022665259fded494c85935d4f1785a143d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The one thing that obviously cannot be done is to reduce tax rates to the point where that would actually close the net after-tax gap between the two countries. It is actually around growth that the difference is going to be closed, over the long term. But even on the most optimistic forecast, that would take quite a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9e55c6dac28447da2b62e83347ccff2\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any other reports on the impact of the tax changes announced in the recent Australian Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af9deb996d54185bb9844414d3c29a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I saw two reports, both of some significance. One was a net 3 percent swing to the Australian Labor Party Opposition, and the second was that two-thirds of Australian voters would have preferred more spending on services rather than the tax cuts\u2014a result mirrored very much by a recent poll in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c68150ca6e84c28b33e9138833d4b26\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the trans-Tasman wage gap has got so wide that the after-tax income of the average Australian worker, the equivalent of NZ$45,000, is now higher than the pre-tax income of the average New Zealand worker, at $43,000; if so, does that concern him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aedb7ea592a4f33ab3a6946ca03f3c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of differences in that respect. I am also aware the Australians have higher tax rates on upper incomes, and have a range of business taxation\u2014including, of course, a compulsory superannuation levy of 9 percent of income\u2014which widens their tax wedge. In New Zealand the tax wedge on the average worker is the third-lowest in the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221626f939b7b04016ad784f324cc2bc03\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think, in light of Australia\u2019s new tax cuts, that the Australian Tourist Board\u2019s new advertising slogan will change to \u201CMove to Australia and get your tax paid free\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ba6178712a14719bc41b51863b01a76\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That would depend, of course, on whether the board continues to hire a New Zealand company to carry out its publicity for it\u2014because a New Zealand company was better than any Australian opposition for doing the campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498e3b38191341fa9138048dc7c845d4\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that if a single-earning family with two children on the average household income of $60,000 were to move to Australia and keep the same salary, not only would they pay less income tax but they would also get more from the Australian family tax benefit than they would from his Working for Families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e47456050a4b6c8810f69221269179\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That just shows the importance of extending the Working for Families programme, which that member opposed, attacked, and said should not apply to people on middle incomes. That was an own goal, if ever there was one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002251bb665f196347a1bf81dbfe49277e97\u0022\u003EAid Policy, Pacific\u2014International Whaling Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b0d1e3a127f4710acc6fca39c5548d9\u0022\u003EDIANNE YATES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Will New Zealand be reviewing its aid policy to the Pacific following events at the recent International Whaling Commission meeting; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022916dd27f9c5d4c12861a55621d6512e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022916dd27f9c5d4c12861a55621d6512e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand is held in high esteem for the transparency and fairness of our aid programmes. We have always focused our aid on where it is needed most and we have a longstanding commitment to see a much greater percentage of that aid spent in the Pacific. Making aid conditional on countries complying with the political whim of donor countries is the exact thing we have been seeking to fight against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226097962a38c54ec4a30a71aa300b9856\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on alternative proposals to the Government\u2019s aid policy in the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f5dd23458c24604ab11c962c9391ab0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report that National\u2019s Murray McCully wants the Government to link aid to the conduct of Pacific nations at the International Whaling Commission. In other words, he wants us to duplicate the behaviour of, for example, Japan in this matter. That is an utterly bankrupt idea\u2014without a shred of integrity\u2014that will work against the very people we are trying to help in the Pacific and who are not directly responsible for every Government decision or political decision made by their Governments. It would also undermine many decades of New Zealand\u2019s principled approach to aid that stretches back past the time of Sir Keith Holyoake\u2014when the National Party had a leader\u2014Peter Fraser, Michael Joseph Savage, that the rest of the world, but seemingly not Mr McCully, regards as having integrity and being a model for others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dfdebcefcfe436680a7b3122fd64807\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House why earlier this year, he approved a New Zealand aid grant to assist the Palestinian Authority just after the election of the Hamas Government; and would he explain why he gave aid dollars to a Middle Eastern authority that had just elected a terrorist organisation as its Government rather than giving them to our near neighbours in the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229839c8ae3d0c4f1ea100a706a06df970\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The first thing one must do when one is involved in running the affairs of the country is get the facts right. Hamas were not an elected Government. Hamas had members elected to Parliament but they were not a Government until a short while ago. Between times, we, like the United States and the World Bank\u2014and they are not known for tossing their money around for unjust causes\u2014decided to fund through the World Bank\u2019s operation for the health and food of the poor people of that country. We have never given 1c to Hamas nor have we decided to. Mr McCully should get his facts right for the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5846b41ad6949dd80380e116e5b9000\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: What would be the fiscal impact of Mr McCully\u2019s proposed alternative, and what would the ethical implications be for New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ef70b4b0d464071a1e2bc0d732e37c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question. Mr McCully wants New Zealand to line up our cheque book against Japan\u2019s, the world\u2019s second-largest economy at US$4,500 billion compared with our much more modest US$108 billion. That is a fool\u2019s crusade; we could never win. This is all because of some misplaced notion that we can change overnight, with a few more dollars, the behaviour of some countries\u2019 politicians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a1df440100421895d7b209e6cbc047\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Only 3 weeks ago you gave a very considered ruling about the degree to which Government Ministers could answer questions about Opposition policy. You ruled that the only thing Ministers could comment on was reports they may have read. That supplementary question from New Zealand First made no mention of any reports and, as that is the basis of your own ruling, is not in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a3cb6e7e5cb45feb751f5c13664ce61\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a21f61ab51c5488ea563914be7b434bb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Peters. I will just comment first. If anyone wants to take it further, that is fine. Members know that it is perfectly permissible under the Standing Orders to ask hypothetical questions. The fact that the hypothesis comes from an Opposition perspective is actually not relevant. What is relevant is the right to be able to ask hypothetical questions. I interpreted that question to be a hypothetical question. Would the member please complete his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223205b0416dd4dae82b77a5ae97a50ad\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my second answer today, I have seen a report from National\u2019s Murray McCully. That is the reference, and the member knows that full well. He wants us to line up our US$108 billion economy against the US$4,500 billion economy of Japan. That is a battle we can never possibly win. Clearly, National wants us to abandon a policy that has integrity and moral authority and that has won us the trust and confidence of many partners in the Pacific and around the world. In a race with a cheque book\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d1f3ae87b354ca3b373ea95edf2c0d8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Mumble, mumble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226221cb0b59a74947968e76e9ff8b076f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so this is not important to the member? When it comes to policy, National puts me in mind of the Dusty Springfield song \u201CWishing and hoping and thinking and praying\u201D, but it does not have a policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db3ad7e48dfd4b1ab7653a72eadc6bbe\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: When will the New Zealand Government lift New Zealand off its near-bottom status in the OECD aid table\u2014it is currently languishing around 0.27 percent of gross national income\u2014and what timetable will the Government establish to meet the accepted international target of 0.7 percent of gross national income by 2015 so that we can re-establish our international aid credibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f27a6a3a72a64911bfdc1dcaf2a8e963\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, that is a significant priority for me and my ministry; bearing in mind that we had a massive decline in funding for foreign aid and for the ministry itself of 40 percent by 2002 under, firstly, a National administration. That was turned round in 2002. Admittedly it is not what I would like it to be, but it is far better than it was, and we have hopes and aspirations to lift it much more rapidly than was planned. We will have to rely on our persuasive powers in respect of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a06b8f962c249dcaf9d5bb063e72fdf\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any substantive policy alternatives to the Government\u2019s aid policy in the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2c0e58692c84262804c4c7a4b923e7b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Actually I have seen a policy on the National Party\u2019s website on the question of aid. It is one sentence. Since the election National has put out two statements, one by Simon Power attacking our desire to help better the police force in Vanuatu, and one by John Hayes saying he would deny the people of Tokelau the constitutional right, bound by the United Nations, to self-government and determining self-government\u2014an attack he also made on the Government of Niue, which has seen a very strong response from the Prime Minister just this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233eb77ff90c34d0d86e60f264fb95b96\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Do your job and stop looking at our website!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82d0af18ef741bbb740fc3cbc6db78f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I did look at the website. Those members have barely asked a question in this House but they have spent their time sniping on the World Wide Web report Mr McCully puts out to a few misguided people every week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edd1a02419da4eb6bb95d720bd8f0d4d\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it part of the foreign policy of the Minister\u2019s Government to provide special immigration quotas for the people of Kiribati and Tuvalu to immigrate to New Zealand, as well as providing those countries with substantial aid; and why, when concluding those arrangements, did it not occur to the Minister to tie down a few loose ends like the way those countries vote at the International Whaling Commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bf16634aac541b49f24cab75afbc7f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: We have to have an understanding of the way some parts of the world work. Sadly, one of the greatest focuses we have is to ensure that we, by our policies, bring about better governance and less corrupt Government in many of those countries. Some of those political acts are not, though, the people\u2019s fault; they are the fault of some politicians and some Governments. If we take the Solomon Islands, for example, we can see that there is every bit of reason to prove that, in fact, the interference of a foreign Government caused the recent uprising there. What would Mr McCully have us do? Would he have us abandon our modelled project that has some integrity and some honour to it, and start behaving like them? We are never going to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64f65f4fc0f437882b9f5290be1ddd8\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that if New Zealand were to withdraw its aid budgets to Pacific nations because of their position on whaling, we would be giving the whaling nations and their aid budgets even more leverage in the Pacific?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d92f3c83978a450d970cdac43c423346\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That is precisely what would happen. In fact, there are some countries that would clap their hands all the way to the bank if we were to depart the scene. But the principal piece of information that this House needs to know is that it is fundamental to our policy, as a good and responsible neighbour, that we seek to improve Governments around us\u2014from Fiji, to Tonga, and all the way to Micronesia. The point is that we are not always successful, and to say we should abandon them for that policy for a temporary victory by Japan is, I think, a very, very bad policy position taken by the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0abc8428e234279a019b54b0a61e306\u0022\u003EElectricity\u2014Transmission Grid\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad7050e791d04b09b32427958abeca0b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Is he satisfied that the system established with the electricity governance changes in 2003 and 2004 involving the Commerce Commission, Electricity Commission, and Transpower is the right structure to ensure the transmission grid is maintained and upgraded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00220c3fa6a5576c464ea10125b9689590d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c3fa6a5576c464ea10125b9689590d9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, those systems are fundamentally better than those we inherited, but there is always room for improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282f4abd458b04775aee73d4c518c670d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read the headline of the article in today\u2019s Dominion Post, \u201CPower cut to keep grid on\u201D, which tells of 6,000 Bay of Plenty households that had their power switched off because the grid was so overloaded, and whom does he hold responsible for the transmission system being so dilapidated that such cuts are necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022168e02dec79445db9d593eadc6aa3d66\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have read that article, and I would note in response this comment from Dr Doug Heffernan, a transmission specialist and the chief executive officer of Mighty River Power, who on Monday in the Waikato Times said of Transpower: \u201CSo the issues you see now really come from decisions that were or were not taken five or 10 years ago.\u201D The reason those decisions were not taken 5 or 10 years ago went to the Government policy statement that that member\u2019s Government, Mrs Shipley\u2019s Government, promulgated, which stated that, in the past, Transpower had been responsible for setting and operating grid security standards, and that under the revised Government policy statement, \u201CTranspower is required to provide services at a level and quantity determined by its customers rather than by Transpower.\u201D The effect of that was to deregulate and delegate to the customers of Transpower decisions as to whether and when the grid should be updated. That is why the present system is so much superior.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2bca15bc1848559ae30478c9b0b9d7\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give assurances to Bay of Plenty residents who last night suffered a 3-hour enforced blackout that there will be no further power cuts during the impending cold weather over the next few days?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022628bf67558fa4180b124313ef3d91544\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Although I am sure a repetition of that event would be very unlikely, I cannot give that assurance. I am awaiting a report from Transpower as to what transpired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5149599e3f24ba4a0c54301dffaba3b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement yesterday by Trevor Mallard that Transpower investments of $78 million per year were \u201Cembarrassingly low\u201D; if so, whom in Labour does he hold responsible for the embarrassing situation in the years between 1999 and 2004?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e96be856216a40d68a9adfbb6c448f97\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We were not in Government for the 1999 Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cebeccf2081f4f018071f5c20fbd4bc4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question asked who was responsible in the years between 1999 and 2004. We all know that Labour was elected in 1999. I do not think the Minister made any attempt to answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a7d1d4520e6484cb0952e0a8c6e2ca5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There was a partial answer, but the Minister may now wish to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cc086330335477b966ace789405292f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to develop on that answer. In the 1999-2000 year, $63 million of capital was spent by Transpower. This year the amount of capital being spent is $295 million. Next year it will be $360 million. The following year it will be $409 million. The following year it will be $694 million. In 2009-10 it will be $894 million. The figures speak for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6cf36b56ef4470bafd41acba03263c5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why, in the answer the Minister has just given, did he decline to mention year 2000, year 2001, year 2002, year 2003, year 2004, and year 2005\u2014in all those years the average expenditure was actually less than what it was during the 1990s\u2014and whom does he hold responsible for the low levels of investment for each of those years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac11e726b43d479d81ded5547ad7e6d8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure it was an accident on the part of the member who just spoke, but he misled Parliament with those numbers. The numbers are the following: in 1999-2000 the figure was $63 million, in 2000-01 it was $61 million, in 2001-02 it was $84 million, in 2002-03 the figure had already climbed by around 50 percent to $108 million, and, of course, we are up to about $300 million now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022542879498c6c47a798bbe6307c443e62\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Who provided the incorrect advice that led the Prime Minister to say in Parliament last week: \u201Cunder the current Government, Transpower has been investing, on average, around $300 million per annum in its system.\u201D, and that led to the Minister\u2019s own statement: \u201CWe are spending five times as much on capital works \u2026 five times as much every year\u201D; was it a Beehive spin doctor or a ministry official\u2014who was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245659c40eeec478f9e69ea7de671e34e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the Hon Trevor Mallard said yesterday, he took responsibility for the incorrect advice given to the Prime Minister last week. In terms of the selective quote that the member made in respect of my own comments, he failed to record the prior paragraph of that same interview, when I put the statement in context and was absolutely correct in my comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226442539782e94c5cad8425b4257295b0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why will the Minister not simply come clean and answer who gave the false advice that led to him on National Radio misleading the country, and to the Prime Minister last week misleading this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229425e2738bc45a2870218f9fbeee603\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because I will not name the individual within my own office and pillory that person\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fc6690cbfed4cb88844ce2a5b3c3233\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: So it was your office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f8474db1a44e45ac62407e25b851bf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was, but I was not here, which is why the Acting Minister of Energy took responsibility. In respect of the comments I made on National Radio, those comments were correct and were not misleading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7eb4a8743a444b6a8a64ca4f73e4962\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the statement on National Radio, in which the Minister said: \u201CWe\u2019re spending five times as much on capital works \u2026 five times as much every year\u201D, when that statement is incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263615e35363d450cbfcd8d5d983651f8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3b40028cd794e0ca9fac341c1229657\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the 1999 Government policy statement, when Transpower was directed to provide services as requested by its customers, rather than to plan them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283776954a88740649d693010ee031c1d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299fec251840446e889e5a510a6dca245\u0022\u003ESuperannuitants\u2014Income Supplementation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9bfbb02c32946ecadc12db318221d65\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What advice, if any, has he received on how New Zealand - based superannuitants can supplement their incomes to improve their standard of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022420c1f47a6664387ab91feb8660ab04f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022420c1f47a6664387ab91feb8660ab04f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: In an extreme version they could be the Leader of the Opposition, but more generally, as New Zealand superannuation is not income and asset-tested there is no barrier to earning other income. KiwiSaver, of course, will help provide higher levels of retirement income. We are also looking at ways to enhance opportunities for older people who want to work to be able to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228166de070b84b13a03a13374b601601\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Retirement Commissioner advocate improving retirement income through savings or work, when those who take this advice but do so offshore are penalised by having these savings deducted from their New Zealand superannuation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2121e8ab9b44a12af44230925cd116c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: People who make private provision for retirement by savings who are offshore are not penalised by deductions from their New Zealand superannuation. They receive the full rate of New Zealand superannuation on top of overseas private pensions or overseas savings. The direct deduction provisions apply to people with public or State pensions from another country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254acdb4854d943aca63a8f1146bca51e\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: How do New Zealand\u2019s pension portability rules compare with those of other countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c0f05f49ebc4ddc9d1382c2ec49c952\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite difficult to make that comparison, because nearly all countries have some form of public pension provision based on entitlement on a proportionate basis\u2014in other words, related to a number of years working as a proportion of a base, say, 40 or 45 years\u2014whereas New Zealand superannuation is based on a relatively short residency requirement alone, of 10 years. That does create some difficulty in comparing portability arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c46e9afdf8304dd3a252bb2e4b7ddc3f\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government plan to review the portability of foreign pensions for senior citizens who may be eligible for payments in addition to New Zealand superannuation; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289a07ad443e343799fc093ef4af901a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First contains a commitment to investigate ways to improve options for senior citizens who may be eligible for foreign pensions as well as New Zealand superannuation. The Minister is working on those matters in conjunction with other Ministers, and that work is progressing very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a684843a46141608a0efee288283b41\u0022\u003EPolice Numbers\u2014Government Target\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f01153aa0cb94453ad5d82399064e2bd\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is she confident that the Government will reach its target of 1,000 extra sworn police before the next election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa8186381acb45949b9d68b255ceaef9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa8186381acb45949b9d68b255ceaef9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E The Government and the New Zealand Police are committed to the recruitment of an extra 1,000 sworn and 250 non-sworn staff over the three Budgets, in line with the Government\u2019s confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First. As I have said on more than one occasion, it will be a challenge, but it is one that it is possible to meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c20bca1be7f4ff18d9e43c344d11415\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: How can she be confident of that, when the latest figures from the police reveal that there are 59 fewer front-line police now than there were at the end of June last year, meaning she is already starting with a deficit\u2014or has she promised more than she can deliver?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c966bd9598b441b9a82bc9c2ed0eba72\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, because this programme starts on 1 July, in line with the Budget. The Budget was put in from 1 July. It was always said to be the case\u2014never anything else. However, I am confident, along with the Commissioner of Police, that we will meet the target, and I welcome those members of this House who are supporting such a recruitment drive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a43c8bcbe85046c6869b608fe500f405\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that at present there are 206 fewer sworn staff than have been budgeted for\u2014and that is even before the new funding from this year\u2019s Budget\u2014yet the number of non-sworn staff is over budget by 67, including decoy cops who are recorded as non-sworn staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289bdaec7862842e3a64991ee26984fee\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The number of sworn staff goes up and down. The trend one has to look at is how many there will be at the end of the promise that was made in conjunction with New Zealand First. I have a lot of confidence in our ability to go out and recruit, because New Zealanders want more police to be on the street. That is what we promised, and that is what we want to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4dab2db149842d181db6839c6615fa7\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: What initiatives does the Minister have under way for the police to work with, and to expand the role of, community groups that are already skilled, experienced, and well placed to prevent and combat crime, such as M\u0101ori wardens and Neighbourhood Support, and to appoint special constables to fill existing gaps; if there are none, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022287a45199aef497987ef46d4f22046d4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to tell the member that a lot of work is done in that area by the New Zealand Police. For example, the police provide, in kind, work worth over $100,000 to Neighbourhood Support. I recently opened the conference of the Community Patrols in New Zealand, in Rotorua, where the Commissioner of Police undertook to provide even more support than the police give now. Those are two examples. Of course, the police work very closely with M\u0101ori wardens, and I am pleased to tell the member that the new Commissioner of Police is one of those who instigated very close association with M\u0101ori wardens. I believe that the police are doing a lot in that respect, and that they intend to do even more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc50603fcfb42b7a07056e828b0cb98\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister made absolutely no attempt to answer my question. We all know that the police are doing a very good job, but my question did not ask what the police did; it asked what initiatives she had underway to expand the role of those groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022956013f2d4dc444eb37ecdeec466e291\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The police are not separate, in that the Government provides the funding and the impetus for the police to undertake those roles. So the member cannot separate out the money that the Government puts in from the role that the New Zealand Police undertakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9d49c4a02584b01bf57f4a1bdbbd636\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member did address the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cafb84a493549debe772a48de9d68f1\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that in the year to the end of May, the number of resignations of sworn staff has increased by 27 percent and the number of retirements has increased by 72 percent; what will she do to halt that alarming rate of attrition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6045e9b12464be29806e1717c168509\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The rate of attrition in the New Zealand Police ranges from between 4 percent and 6 percent, on an annual basis\u2014and it has for many, many years, even under a National Government. I think that many Government departments would be proud to have an annual attrition rate of 5 percent. I believe that the police are doing a lot to hold police staff within their ranks. I am certainly not going to stop people retiring; they have every right to retire if they want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e38f7ffd464ff2be365ee9d5e43ba9\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm the contents of a report from Deputy Commissioner of Police Lyn Provost, which states: \u201CThe sworn police staff is an ageing population,\u201D with only 13 percent under the age of 30, and that older staff tend to \u201Cmove away from front-line general duties.\u201D; if so, how will she meet the target of 1,000 extra front-line cops?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022660601d29f8e4d6aa0350b05a8440ca7\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question, because one of the recruitment drives of the New Zealand Police is to recruit people in a younger age group. Over a number of years, the police had concentrated on the age groups of people in their 20s, and going up to their 30s and 40s, and one of the recruitment drives is for school leavers. I think I recall some criticism from National for undertaking that policy; I do not know why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee3d253c2904ca3ae05c9dc71f08bc6\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm the estimate of the deputy commissioner that due to attrition, the police will actually need to recruit 2,250 police in order to get the 1,000 she has promised; and will she tell the House today what percentage of certainty she believes she has in reaching that target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e94840bbbcd437aa181223bb8842b51\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That, certainly, has been confirmed by the deputy commissioner, who also told the member that it is possible to do that. I have confidence in her figures regarding the police being able to provide not only for attrition but also for additional staff. Let me take the example that the Royal New Zealand Police College has been training about 250 new cops a year. It is already training up to around 650, and it has managed to do that before we have even started the major campaign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266be75bebebc40b393e8638f5600e6e7\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the report from the Deputy Commissioner of Police to the Minister of Police that confirms that 2,250 recruits will be needed\u2014taking attrition into account\u2014before there is any chance of having 1,000 new front-line and sworn staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296b8e1aef20449f892cc941597d5ba38\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246fa1cbcb6534f7bbf2d1fde80a41e84\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind members that the normal practice is for documents to be tabled afterwards. If members have supplementary questions, could they please rise to ask them before that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799022b62e9446bfa2f1a9b149f27ebf\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House whether she has seen the contradictory reports in the media, whereby on the one hand Simon Power from National is spreading doom and gloom about the Government\u2019s inability to recruit the 1,250 extra police, and on the other hand Simon Power\u2019s colleague Judith Collins is so confident that the Government is going to hit that target of 1,250 extra police that she has launched a petition in her electorate, Clevedon, to make sure she gets her fair share of the extra police that will arrive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bde7838771c4eb3901f6fac5feb3415\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the first part of the member\u2019s question, I say that, unfortunately, Simon Power has become known as a perennial whinge bag. In relation to the second part of the question, I would like to congratulate the member for Clevedon, who has confidence in the New Zealand Police. Maybe she has a little more knowledge about the police than National\u2019s spokesperson does. I have confidence that we will go out and recruit those police, and I am hopeful that the member will have her wish granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0e178dd98d343809f75fdba13a9d068\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave for the Minister to say whether she will sign my petition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee40c3e678d40fa9b53dff3801eeaf9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a sensible point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225547061900a54c90bfe1369b4c7f8b61\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not a fact that the best recruiters of police officers in this country are police officers, that we have, in total, 10,000 sworn and non-sworn officers in the country right now, and that if each one of those officers was to recruit one extra person, we would have a surplus of police officers of something around 8,750?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261a95db0e3fa4f37b234c3ad435b8020\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm what the member has said\u2014police are the best recruiters of new police. I think it is also helpful, however, to have local members of Parliament, like the member for Clevedon, also go out and assist in the recruitment drive, knowing that policing is a very good profession for people\u2014not only for the young but for those who are a little older, as well. It is just a shame that there are some who would love this programme to fail. I cannot for the life of me understand why they want it to fail, other than that they hope they may get a couple of votes out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236917a0216e540d0936ac238fd8e6e66\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm, or offer a view on, one of the greatest threats to police recruitment, which is dissatisfaction and loss of confidence inside the police force, and can she comment on whether the involvement of a former National Party parliamentary candidate by the name of Dale Stephens, who headed a security company called Specialised Guard Services and who subsequently employed an ex - gang member and rapist as a security guard in a central police station to oversee an inmate who was on suicide watch, is one of the things that does not help the police in maintaining their confidence and satisfaction levels; can she offer the National Party any advice on how to select good candidates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa9225d04894a20b793f45d0da6d42d\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That question has nothing to do with the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090650de581e4a4394c83ae6c4b4d045\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Not only is that the case but the Minister has no responsibility for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221873407585cf486aaed110a7316f2b08\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can I rephrase the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274696d841a1a404eae7fc039b439c771\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry. The question was far too long in the first place. You have had the opportunity to ask the question, and it is time to move on. You may ask another supplementary question; that is perfectly within your right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d259a4a70ca43408b3d433bab27e0b2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The fact is that the question really asked whether someone who was running a security company that the police had a contract with was running it in a way that would encourage police recruitment in this country. It might have been a long question, but it was relevant in that context. This is a big issue that has just been exposed in the last 24 hours. The fact that the man was a National Party candidate may be neither here nor there\u2014it may be part of National\u2019s typical behaviour\u2014but it is still a relevant question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adf91eee50ac47e181e4b8008593e47d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think members must take from this that when they ask supplementary questions, they should be succinct. Supplementary questions should contain within them only one thought, not a stream of consciousness, which frequently\u2014[Interruption] I am not talking about only this particular member\u2019s supplementary question; I am talking about many supplementary questions that come from members. So would members please take note of that. Questions should be succinct, short, and carry one thought only, and then members are likely to\u2014[Interruption] It may well be too many, the Hon Bill English says, but that is for someone else to decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228dfb214ab3f4134816dc9dae4708994\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister inform the House of what possible impediments there could be to attracting good recruits into the police force, given the work conditions that they may sometimes find themselves facing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a0aab759d44e4f86ebde6098abe983\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with the member that integrity is an important part of recruitment into the New Zealand Police. I think the point the member is trying to make is that those who work with the New Zealand Police are expected to have a level of integrity as well. Unfortunately, sometimes people do not see the difference between those who are working in, say, a private security company, and work that can be done in conjunction with the New Zealand Police, so therefore there can be some spin-off from those sorts of arrangements that have not worked out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcad1d3a39314d05a2c355a15b8fe9e9\u0022\u003EPolice Complaints Authority\u2014Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d154249ca3a74f419b1729eb6179c195\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he agree with comments made by the previous Minister of Justice, the Hon Phil Goff, when releasing the Review of the Police Complaints Authority, that \u201CThere is a strong public view that police investigation of complaints against themselves is neither independent or appropriate\u201D and that \u201CIt is critical that there is full public confidence that such investigations are independent.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00223f6844b9b7424960afe746384287a1df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f6844b9b7424960afe746384287a1df\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28155db586e4bf7987fce02ef6b8346\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to ensure that there is an independent investigation into the recent allegations that police have been obtaining so-called voluntary DNA samples through coercion\u2014for example, the instance where a 17-year-old was pulled over for a minor driving offence, then told that a $400 fine would be waived if he gave a sample, and the instance where another 17-year-old was offered cigarettes in exchange for a DNA sample?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817b4b5b18e041f48bcf3a4f47f247c7\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is my understanding that either those matters are under investigation or there are appropriate channels to which a complaint can be made, such as the independent Police Complaints Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bbe93e6de9e4f249da36cc5195bca19\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker; t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. Is the Minister aware that the Police Complaints Authority investigation into the death of Mr Wallace, who was shot by police in Waitara in April 2000, cannot proceed until there is a finding from the coroner, and does he believe that it is appropriate for the Wallace wh\u0101nau to have to wait 6 years for a finding; if not, what will he do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bedc1f5dd3e34ea5bef6d61c67d10187\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not my practice to comment on cases that are currently under consideration before those jurisdictions, but it is not unusual when an inquiry is in progress in one jurisdiction for the independent Police Complaints Authority to delay its consideration until the finding is available from that other jurisdiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df3614e340847e39b1bf46218e77457\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 2,496 cases accepted for investigation by the Police Complaints Authority in the last financial year did not involve and rely on police officers doing much of the authority\u2019s investigation, and, in relation to that, does the Minister accept the main thrust of Justice Gallen\u2019s review of the Police Complaints Authority, which is that the authority should have its own investigatory capacity, rather than rely on one part of the police to investigate the same institution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ed14cc99b04a34b5803997f73a5b39\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have the actual numbers with me, but I certainly accept the general thrust of Justice Gallen\u2019s report. That is why the Government moved to put in place independent inquiry capability with the independent Police Complaints Authority. It is already done, already funded\u2014particularly targeted at serious inquiries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227997f4e5cdb54f82a68521c3d27f2c2a\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Has the Minister read M\u0101ori Perceptions of the Police, which reports a very strong perception from M\u0101ori that the Police Complaints Authority would be self-protecting and biased in favour of the police, should M\u0101ori bring a complaint against the institution or individuals within it; and what assurance can he provide to M\u0101ori that this is not the case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b671ae0b87314153b96529c7553a277b\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that that may be the perception of some, but I think a study that dealt with the authority showed overwhelmingly that investigations by the police have been thorough and fair, and that supervision by the authority, in particular, has been effective. That is the overwhelming experience. As I said before, in reply to the previous supplementary question, the Government has already implemented the recommendation in Justice Gallen\u2019s report that the authority have independent investigative capability\u2014it does, in particular for serious cases. I think that should further reinforce public confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228770db028e2c468197b6f9309fdc0292\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the M\u0101ori Perceptions of the Police report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284dd2bedd46c4cb6ac8c489edf53bfc4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed43219bfb91493fa83fed93275a1501\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government reconsider its decision to put the Independent Police Complaints Authority Amendment Bill on hold until the Bazley inquiry has presented its findings, which were initially due in November 2004, but were then extended to February 2005, then extended to May 2005, then extended to March 2006, then extended to May 2006, then further extended until September 2006; when does the Government envisage that we will see the outcome of that inquiry, and when will this Parliament see the Independent Police Complaints Authority Amendment Bill progress through this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2e04203add4fd799cdbeb951ca80d8\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I think the member will appreciate, the decision to delay progressing the bill, which is ready for its Committee stage, until the outcome of that inquiry was made, I think, correctly, because it is likely that relevant recommendations will arise. However, given the necessary further delay, I am actively reconsidering that decision now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf75fe4b1dbf4d848ba4968d0050d9cf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a943f75e260a450889c55d4a7ad1bd7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a943f75e260a450889c55d4a7ad1bd7e\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to hold this question over until the Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs is in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc7e6a618743416da093bf3ecd69af98\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022efd2f15241b245a196a606563e20e881\u0022\u003EAgent Orange\u2014Joint Working-group Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e3658abc87457ea907af01d85cd084\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs: Has he received the joint working-group\u2019s report on Agent Orange; if he has, when did he receive it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022afffd80cc692488f9440376f387bffd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afffd80cc692488f9440376f387bffd5\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of State Services)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs: Ministers Goff and Barker received the report on 28 April.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292c744db00b04046a0e0de4e33a28b43\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by the assurance he gave me on 6 April that he would release the report unedited by the Government; and, if he does, why has he not released the report by now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fa510d17a0a4ae2925fba78057e3323\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministers are considering the recommendations of the report, and that is obviously their first priority. But I can assure the member that the report will be released in full and unedited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba0da534ac6456ba1e253cc29755646\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister refuse to tell the Social Services Committee last Wednesday whether he would release the report within the next 12 months, and would he now like to take this opportunity to table the report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237770de4a82b4b4ba4785d1e7aadb3c6\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, he would not like to take the opportunity to table the report, because the Ministers intend to consider the recommendations of that report. It is a priority for the Ministers, but due consideration must be given. The report will be released in full and unedited at a suitable time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b03d54bba4d848fe93a96d4abff459de\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: On the subject of reports into Agent Orange, is the Minister aware that in 1996 New Zealand First secured an agreement with the National Party to fully investigate the effects of Agent Orange on the children of Viet Nam veterans, that by 1999 that investigation had been totally corrupted by the National Party with the Reeves report, which concluded our troops have never been sprayed\u2014which was a shameful lie\u2014and that there is a word for that, starting with \u201Ch\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c8c5d05b3542b19e67f43a275da618\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: It is my understanding that was the case. I presume the member feels that there is a word for that, which starts with \u201Ch\u201D, in that now there is considerable concern from the Opposition about the release of this report and action being taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215456cb4272e4d409523fe8466dde5e1\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Can he understand that veterans might feel less than satisfied with the answer the Minister gave about when the report would be released, when the former Minister opposed the Health Committee\u2019s inquiry into Agent Orange, his own department\u2019s McLeod inquiry said that Agent Orange did not happen and therefore did not matter, and now, after weeks of holding the report, the Minister last week could not say whether he would release it in the next 12 months, when that Minister knows that the report is highly critical of his own department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f53208fe0c04ca4906cdb391683a2ff\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I do not consider that 6 weeks since the Minister received the report is a very long time\u2014after all, it took the select committee 13 months for its inquiry. It has been 6 weeks since it was received and they need time to be able to examine it, and for recommendations to be looked at. That is what the Ministers are doing and it will be released in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fcf16f9836d4f5f995db0dfbe964e91\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are no more supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873afb43ee9d4e64a2f738de10d6676f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: There are now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5031e435e6a41149d9858c72a041d89\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are now? Thank you. Supplementary question, the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022559c1546fffd47718d88b74cddf2ed64\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350899c90dd84578b4643a27df0b6e4b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down, Bill. I\u2019m talking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca5ee3713b44ebcaeecd1ebd80fcd80\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Come on! Both of you sit down please. I am on my feet. We will not have those exchanges across the House. It is treating the House with disrespect. The member was on his feet to make a point of order, I presume. Is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225f66863149f47a79051b94774b769c6\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd7166fdc0b845f29f4ef628aea0ba6b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you please proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022862e08dc565946ac96b403c15fb5e7f1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: There was no exchange; there was simply a statement by Mr Peters. You have given the House quite a misleading impression of what happened. Can you now explain what is happening with the allocation of supplementary questions. The member rose to ask one and you said that there are no more supplementary questions for New Zealand First. He said: \u201CThere are now.\u201D, and then you took the call. That has to be explained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df339d7cbd8b47c9834210dfddd824fb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, of course, are entitled amongst themselves to transfer supplementary questions. I would ask, however, that if they do so, they inform the Speaker first. There is nothing wrong with the practice. I was not informed. I was assured it had been transferred, and that means presumably it has come off one of the Labour Party\u2019s supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbe9503a418e4a2f82e2ea9cefbcbcc7\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can you just clarify this point. Members are all aware that questions are regularly reallocated among members within a party. Do I take it that what has happened here is that the Labour Party has allocated Winston Peters one of its supplementary questions, and the New Zealand First quota has been used up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da16fa870d8a4c3c96a20654620e2746\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022590fed43d51c4396be1b9caaa2597213\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not know why you even entertain those points of order because arrangements here, whether they be for one question or more, are of no moment to any other party at all. Members of the ACT party have been away for about 6 months\u2014in the army, and dancing\u2014and National members have been asking all their questions, and we have never raised a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a90c167181249bd83c96622406dab04\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a706f198a72d4635a0bed294a2b9a100\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It is a point of order, Madam Speaker, with respect. We have never protested about that. We have never wasted Parliament\u2019s time raising a point of order. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9b1f2717c2240d3a9153447ebab5259\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022966851a111a64b099b464f8dfe0285d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly! Every chance they get to try to interrupt the questioning of New Zealand First they have taken. They simply cannot take it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da5f113b75c490e978377484b38598c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was not a legitimate point of order. I have already, on more than occasion, explained this practice. I have no intention of explaining it again. All I ask is that the whips do keep the Speaker informed of the transfer of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eab3f7203f3477887cf7c5346657906\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to the way this matter was handled by the National Party in 1999, when it produced a totally discredited report, does the Minister also remember\u2014[Interruption] See, here we go again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b053913741a54c9b8ef16dbc1f122446\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is not just long-standing practice but also a Standing Order that the question must begin with a question word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b3a5d48a4174ace94657071c4bb32b8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I wish all members actually did it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022046ce28775ad46f599f16c7a0f120dc7\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: And that is a legitimate point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022639cd5a785364122bfe78ff53b3709f0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is a legitimate point of order, and I shall make sure it is enforced with all questions in the future from all parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c07a05005ca4a23a915f170ecbe0439\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If a person is in his or her first sentence, how could you make such a ruling that the person has not started with a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3da7fdf8c2b4ad693daf3fbee595de1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member did not have a question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b08d2759ae4802836ffd24783f4e5b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It is pretty logical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbf385d44f7c4cf386451b2a069835b7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you please proceed with your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225d70ec581064a96861a621730a869bb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Having regard to the way this matter was handled in 1999, does the Minister remember Geoff Braybrooke\u2014a Labour member\u2014bringing two members\u2019 bills to the House under a National Government that it promptly voted down, and is there an \u201Ch\u201D word for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e43b03350f045309f3e0246b5695b1c\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b7b1eaec3b49cca812e8aaa4bdd8a5\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I could pick up on the very technical point that he started again without a question word, but the more important point is that the current Minister can have no responsibility for the actions of a Parliament that is now about three Parliaments ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a3850876c644ebaab69fa8c3614cc74\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know whether that was a responsibility; I think it was asking\u2014[Interruption] I am sorry but would you please repeat the question, and make it a question this time, please, Mr Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022602550d7eb4f42bc927dc4b0c901efd8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister remember\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022358a59447e8a4b70a63a39238f211338\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If members wish to remain in the House, they will be quiet to the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254c888b2f642408495295bac106e7c15\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014with regard to National\u2019s actions when it was governing all on its lonesome\u2014with the help of Tau in 1999\u2014that Geoff Braybrooke brought two members\u2019 bills to this House that that National Government promptly voted down; is there an \u201Ch\u201D word for that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf6ceb645f94dba996dc43d7dd6d170\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask all members in future to desist from using that term\u2014\u201Ch\u201D word. It is unparliamentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d214baadbeb496eba256dfce97f3038\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6b78c8e6f6741c2ad3545461259094a\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E:T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker; t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare. He aha \u014Dna mahi kia whakatikangia ng\u0101 rerek\u0113tanga o ng\u0101 utu penihana e utua ana i raro i Te Ture Penihana o te tau 1954 m\u014D ng\u0101 h\u014Dia i whara, me ng\u0101 utunga i raro i Te Kaporeihana \u0100whina Hunga Whara m\u014D ng\u0101 m\u014Drehu h\u014Dia i hoki mai i Vietnam, 60 pai h\u0113neti o r\u0101tou he M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E[What actions will he be taking to address the differences in pension payments and compensation available for injured soldiers under the War Pensions Act 1954 compared with accident compensation\u2014differences that clearly disadvantage Viet Nam veterans, nearly 60 percent of whom are M\u0101ori?] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264dd7aabc91b43dea3bdbfd69c2be962\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately, I am unable to answer that question at this time, but I am certain that if the member puts it down as a question to the Minister, he will answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022220ddbdae63d427591cc178f4ce441f5\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister please confirm to the House whether the joint working-group\u2019s report on Agent Orange will be released within the next 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72c9631502542429878ab3d4a608d6e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is not prepared to name the date or time the report is to be released. It will be released in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b6da8483efa4668920be9d78f622176\u0022\u003EFinance, Minister\u2014Priorities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d21793a4353042c5b91ef6469925e501\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What are his priorities as Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b27d89486a364d499e44072ba95201fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b27d89486a364d499e44072ba95201fa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I recently told this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77c154a71d0456abd650b0eae67ad09\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot hear the answer, and I am sitting reasonably close. Would members please desist from barracking; interjections are permitted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5bd6e715f36454e92b7d450ba2b2ede\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If we cleared the House of the Opposition, we could have a quiet conversation. As I recently told this House, the most important thing a Government can do in the modern world is to do all it can to ensure its citizens can enjoy a good life, bring up their children in decency, enjoy a good job, have decent housing, and retire with dignity. My priority as Minister of Finance is to ensure that we have the prudent fiscal settings to allow this for now and into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae2b8b0f31ca49ca942f519ce9bcb679\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any reports of alternative priorities that could be pursued by a Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022508cb6d7155e4a05a2ae6960879f450a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: As I mentioned yesterday, an alternative priority I am aware of is the suggestion that the Minister of Finance\u2019s first thoughts in the morning are to ask himself how his shares did overnight, as Mr Key yesterday admitted he does about his Merrill Lynch shares. This may explain his opposition, with unwonted vigour and enthusiasm, to any change in the offshore investment tax regime that would increase his tax in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adccb5cab44a4335b401fe1249209ec8\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that he is quite incorrect\u2014my first thought when I wake up in the morning is to imagine which of the pretenders, from Trevor Mallard to David Cunliffe, will be the next Minister of Finance when the Minister finally gets the flick in a couple of weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eeb577c88a8458c8d72c1b18d7bf27e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, all I can say is that if the first thing the member thinks of when he wakes up is Trevor Mallard, that is called having a nightmare. And since the member dragged my wife into debate yesterday, I think it is a terrible insult to his own wife that he wakes in the morning and thinks of Trevor Mallard. Furthermore, why, in that case, did the member tell a dinner party the exact opposite\u2014that he thought about what had happened to the price of his Merrill Lynch shares overnight\u2014or was he just big-noting as usual?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9331b84fd0243eab53ce86bdadcbda4\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I just want to put it on the record that the feeling is not mutual. I never think of Mr Key first thing in the morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248077907ae4c4e31aa12b19f8d75ab5c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8fa0cd4da2e49adb5ef1b9007b1e167\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation Corporation\u2014Levies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263bded8ab4f3428283a8a75006f87272\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Does she consider that ACC is fair and transparent with regard to ACC levies; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022057b49e9691e4ca8a2f048b4159868ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022057b49e9691e4ca8a2f048b4159868ba\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for ACC: Yes, the proposed levy rates are publicly consulted on each year and are independently reviewed by external actuaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c43eba65286945a0a9d695f88fd2f5ca\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister consider it fair and transparent that from 12 April the part-time self-employed are being charged the full-time employed levy rate irrespective of what they earn, and does she agree that those earners should have been explicitly informed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a19162934d1407384d0b826cb618850\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do think that determining levies according to the structure of business\u2014self-employed versus non - self-employed\u2014is unfair, and that is why I am considering addressing any inequities. I hope the various competing viewpoints of business on this matter can be reconciled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b90a6b9bbb34d1c920bc81559a4e597\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: How do today\u2019s accident compensation levy rates compare with rates from earlier years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022623befc771f54ff98cecdf5394a0fb72\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Although the motor vehicle levy has both risen and fallen since the change of Government, over that same period the average self-employed levy has come down by 6 percent, the earners rate has come down by 7 percent, and the average employers levy has dropped by a massive 43 percent. That is the sort of result we can expect when we do not have the privatisation of ACC on our minds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221de93ad4d136441299e034478c996521\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: How is it fair for ACC to impose full-time levies on low-paid part-time employees, forcing them to pay, in one case, over $1,300 more than the earnings justified; and is that not an example of the ACC monopoly sneakily collecting yet another levy to add to the 43 extra taxes imposed by the Labour Government in the last 7 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223582404c568d48428f8ca0413980e98e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I thought at that point that the member\u2019s question was about a part-time employee. Of course, employees have their levies removed from their wages, and if they are employed part time they will have a part-time wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3074d041f3c4223a46034c9a1622bbb\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Which ACC helpline worker does the Minister believe was correct\u2014the worker who claimed that charging full-time employed levy rates to part-time workers was a mistake, or the worker who claimed that part-time self-employed workers were dishonest and could not be trusted to tell the truth about their working hours\u2014and does either comment not show failure by ACC?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc026f3c58a64a1a8d902ec707129500\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think we have now confirmed that we are talking about workers. I repeat my answer that my understanding is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a89561506cf42e985759a1bc1b6b34b\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Self-employed!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed3880493f24af18a43263ce5f5e869\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Self-employed workers\u2014are they bosses, or are they just working for themselves? If the question is about the self-employed, I refer the member to my answer to his first supplementary question. If it is about employees, I refer the member to my answer to his last supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259e61c734cb44d4dad275297d4731a8c\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister has, either deliberately or out of ignorance, still not answered the question after four attempts. My colleague made it quite clear in his first supplementary question that he was referring to part-time self-employed people. That has not changed all the way through. He has now asked four supplementary questions and got no answer. It is unfair to the House if the Minister insists on answering a completely different question about a completely different group of people and thereby avoids answering the question as to why full-time rates are being levied on part-time self-employed people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9fb0ab0c7a5421ba4b8b361c42b1c42\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I listened really carefully and I think the Minister did work his way through to identifying what the issue was, then did address it by reference to his other answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f90c7f27f474c10a44c8b1d303217b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226741eec4cd0d4d7389d643da42197a74\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a77256962dc4b9981232a2649061ac0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: We just had an interjection from someone who knows full when that when a point of order is being taken\u2014and I had started it\u2014she cannot intervene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfcbc7f2222140b3978fcfe6b53ff7bf\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: He hadn\u2019t started!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b1828233f114446a2adadd432e52a1e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: She is doing it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218532500fd774e30afc925dcf5fb584a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am afraid\u2014Paula Bennett, I think it was\u2014I have been very lenient on this, but we are hearing numerous interjections from that part of the House when people are on their feet. Members are on their last warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fce199d1fe6460bbf34e09cdc3e5170\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is that while the question was being answered by the Minister we in this part of the House could hear barely a word. The noise was deafening. Frankly, our position from here on in will be that if we cannot hear what is being said we will demand that the answer be given a second time so that we can hear it. We do not believe that one side of the House should be able to get away with this every darn day. It is unfair on the rest of the House and on the public as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff9232ae6298409daed7c6c1db9501dc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the member, so I ask members to control the level of their interjections, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab89ce4b724f4987843b205b9953f870\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, you know that this House has always worked on developing its own disciplines and understandings. If the Minister consistently refuses to answer a question, then that is going to create some interjections. In fact, this question time has been one of the quieter ones we have sat through. It is a bit like the way the House is asked to tolerate Mr Peters\u2019 continued points of order that are not points of order. He just keeps at it. We are asked to sit in silence. You have just thrown out one of my colleagues, consistent with the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fc76ba2b3e341a8b90781520d58afe8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have not done that, Mr English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0ab7df4f1c44cd9db77ead3007ca86\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: You threatened to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eff5f389d2f46898dde288c9627e3b9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. I have put the House on warning consistent with the Standing Orders. So everyone is on their warning. Would they please not interject. Please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022488919df060349b088c2c8b624c4d293\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I was about to say \u201Cconsistent with the Standing Orders\u201D. You were trying to enforce them. But if that member continues to raise points of order that are not points of order, it is going to be very difficult to expect the House to behave in a polite and orderly way. So, on the matter that you are dealing with at the moment, I would suggest that there are going to be interjections when Ministers do not answer the question. If the cross-benchers cannot hear it, then that Minister who sits either inside or outside Cabinet\u2014we are not sure which\u2014should tell his colleague the answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7266db7bcdc4b39baf278db37ac1384\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the member did raise a legitimate point of order. A point of order about excessive noise in the House is certainly a point of order. Secondly, you had ruled that the Minister had addressed the question. It is not for the National Party to decide whether a Minister has addressed a question; it is for you to decide that. For the member to now say that the Minister had not addressed the question when you had already ruled that he had is, in fact, to question your ruling. It is not for National Party members to act as the referees in this place; that is your job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022093c7c89b9734336a2dc2950645650f1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member did raise a legitimate point of order. I ask members again, because it is very hard, on occasion, to actually hear what the answers are. Also, I just remind members that, as I have said, interjections are permitted, but the Standing Orders and the Speakers\u2019 rulings state that they should be rare and reasonable. I think that in recent times we have not given enough attention to that particular ruling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022499415a601744f5fabab253670157aff\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister stand by the statement made on the inside cover of the annual report of the Accident Compensation Corporation: \u201CThe environment is changing, but what will always remain constant are the principles we apply.\u201D, when, from 12 April, ACC has just applied the principle of trusting no one and, at the same time, overcharging thousands of honest, part-time, self-employed New Zealand workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0c91cbb05446cdba5690b1604e353a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I talked about inequities amongst self-employed people in the answer to the first supplementary question asked by the member. They are under consideration, and I urge businesses who have differing viewpoints on the way forward to try to reconcile their differences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b8679c08488414baca1c32eb719275c\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table ACC invoices, which demonstrate that ACC has been overcharging honest, low-earning, self-employed workers for at least 3 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227103d6d5bdb44b9c821185db6cdbbd92\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table ACC\u2019s annual report, which, despite ACC demonstrating distrust since April of all part-time, self-employed workers, states that the environment is changing but its principles remain the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225acb7aad5d374e329e94b1821a57840b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8705bb520a44a14a8583e7b498e8283\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a pamphlet from ACC entitled \u201CUnderstanding your ACC levies\u201D, which makes no mention of the distinction between full-time and part-time levies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226848c79c526433f8cdbe136d2597281\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228755725789594dc3a4f027f2880c95b1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u00223022972e2bc94d9cb057b7ea8e4fe30e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223022972e2bc94d9cb057b7ea8e4fe30e\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister of Internal Affairs, to whom I am addressing the question, appears to be snowbound. I wonder whether I could seek leave to hold back the question until a day when he is present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abd0f188e41d45ddbb824f17deaddb7a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022061e352679cf4cee81c1b70cf03a009e\u0022\u003ESignificant Community Based Projects Fund\u2014Eligibility Criteria\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b2a421d9944f3c8f72e3b2ccdd6922\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: Does he have confidence in the application of the eligibility criteria for the Significant Community Based Projects Fund; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd2838e93b1e4c8cadef59209ac6df75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd2838e93b1e4c8cadef59209ac6df75\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs: Yes; because the Minister is advised that the criteria were applied by an interdepartmental advisory group, and, in addition, a team of independent auditors assessed applications against financial and governance elements of the criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022400fb6d0c42a45a693af417a024231d0\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister explain the discrepancy between his statements in the House on 15 June that the $8 million loan from the Wellington City Council to the Karori sanctuary was not an issue, and that, to quote the Minister, his officials had told them that \u201Cit was not a problem\u201D, and the explanation given by his department to the sanctuary and Wellington City Council officials on 8 June that the loan was the major criterion on which their application was declined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e80056f419034ff6b7c4b243fbd94b8d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the independent auditors felt that the loan did not meet the cash requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022087d06940802461094e2248ef8c834ee\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister justify giving away $32 million of taxpayers\u2019 money based on criteria that are not available to applicants or taxpayers, given that his department told the Karori sanctuary and Wellington City Council officials on 8 June that the sanctuary\u2019s application had failed to meet criteria that they did not even know existed and that had never been published, and can he tell the House what other criteria are being used, or could be used, that are not currently publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225cb8d879fc247819badc49567416660\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am holding the information sheet about the Significant Community Based Projects Fund, which was issued before people applied and which includes all the criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c679ed48d44203a321afdb10d9c8dd\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: How does he explain the discrepancy between his statement in the House on 15 June, and the letter to the editor of the Dominion Post today by the manager of service delivery at the Department of Internal Affairs, which states that the sanctuary\u2019s application was not marked down because it had asked for $6 million instead of $8 million, given that his department told the Karori sanctuary and Wellington City Council officials on 8 June that if the sanctuary had applied for $8 million instead of $6 million it would have met the application criteria, but because it did not do so its application had failed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f105020c0c34e34ba8a2857da8724de\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That is not consistent with the advice that was given a couple of hours ago to the Minister whom I am standing in for today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243c9583343f249d9b698a9706fd5832b\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the criteria for receiving funding from the Significant Community Based Projects Fund, which do not mention at all the word \u201Cloan\u201D or the other criteria that have been mentioned, such as a 5 percent shortfall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a9237fc6a384b1c80b14b7523d1ec88\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report from the chief executive officer of the Karori Wildlife Sanctuary, which confirms the fact that the officials are totally contradicting the Minister, and talks about criteria that the sanctuary was marked on that are also not in the criteria just tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fa43a7302314ed686f3aa5874387cee\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Access\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212944bbf15ed479eb22ce352483db43f\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What progress has been made in ensuring long-term, affordable access to prescription drugs and doctors\u2019 visits for all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32765b48c2948cda499be22168d466e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32765b48c2948cda499be22168d466e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E An agreement reached yesterday means that the roll-out of cheaper doctors\u2019 visits and low-cost prescription drugs for 45-year-olds to 64-year-olds will proceed from 1 July this year, and for all New Zealanders from 1 July next year. Importantly, the agreement allows general practitioners to protect the viability of their practices, and allows the Government to future-proof the primary health care strategy. This is a victory for general practice, it is a victory for the Labour-led Government, but, most important, it is a victory for the health of New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5a77d52bf404a0f8a4e773aa732038b\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: What is the cost of this year\u2019s roll-out of the primary health care strategy, and has the Minister had any reports on alternative policies for this age group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022038e621c48174affa50033c6f0c88f0b\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour-led Government is investing $110 million to enable this year\u2019s extension of affordable primary health care. National\u2019s stated policy is to put doctors\u2019 fees and prescription charges back up for this age group. I think this House is entitled to know whether another U-turn is coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c8c95f993af450082f3457b29df5f32\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u2014Conflicts of Interest Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb6e7beaaba942e8a41fa3b78f413bdd\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Has she received the report of Dr Noel Ingram QC into allegations of conflict of interest involving Taito Phillip Field; if not, when does she expect to receive it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d82a226c3a7e4ffebbd707a08f92fdf0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d82a226c3a7e4ffebbd707a08f92fdf0\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E No, but as I have told the member many times, I expect to receive the report when it is finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c69cba4c323742d98d780b1b75cfa2ef\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has it been standard practice in her administration for a person such as an overstayer, who needs a document to provide that he or she would not be removed from New Zealand while a permit or visa application is being considered, to be charged a fee; if so, what has been the normal size of that fee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac393aee130645cf9a526f2839e4f44e\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I have no advice on that matter. I suggest the member put that question down for the Minister of Immigration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c03de2cc324a9ca48021361d0d5ff8\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: If her administration has not been charging a fee for the provision of such documents that purportedly protect an overstayer from removal, pending consideration of a permit or visa application, would a person alleging that he or she had to pay such a fee cause her concern as to the possibility of a corrupt practice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022882e831dd71642b4a7fe767b8a1dc861\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The only fees properly payable in New Zealand for consideration of an immigration application are those charged by the Immigration Service itself. If the member has other matters he wishes to lay before the Government, I suggest he raises a question directly with the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c7dad622a3e41b9a9744f10b025b76e\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation does the Prime Minister have, therefore, for a person alleging that in order to obtain such a document from her administration through the electorate office of Taito Phillip Field, $2,000 in cash had to be paid to a family friend of Taito Phillip Field?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6497fdcf09c4c31a397f793cd39ddbd\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I have no knowledge of such an accusation. If the member wanted to make that allegation, he should have properly made it to Mr Ingram, and whoever has made the allegation to the member should have properly made it to Mr Ingram. I have received no advice about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc3debf76ca34358a00f5be32e36111e\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister prepared to provide immunity to people, to encourage them to feel able to tell her inquiry exactly whom they have had to pay cash to, with neither invoice nor receipt, in order to obtain certain documents from her administration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c2b48f6e4d45549192f6d522e0f53e\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Any person who wants to make such an allegation and lay such a complaint should immediately take it to the police. I want to say for the record that, of course, if that person goes to the police he or she will have immunity. No corruption is tolerated by this Government\u2014Dr Smith might have tolerated it but we do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ccae90252f04a868e9f0e82c1013f20\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is a breach of the Standing Orders to allege corruption with respect to another member, as the Prime Minister did just now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a855fccec8e34518bac04451dd7acc13\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear that, I must say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260bfd7b5c7324c71846dd630ad608ead\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister said Dr Smith may have put up with corruption but she did not. That is a very serious allegation to make in this House and it should be withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b916a633b5ce44a1b0f58c454e604759\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member\u2014[Interruption] Would the member who is sitting to my immediate left please be quiet. Would both members please be seated; I am on my feet now, so I am making it clear. Please be seated. My understanding is that if the member took offence at the allegation, he should raise the matter and ask the Prime Minister to withdraw and apologise. He has not done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d5adffea89742cb85c04de81cdd4aa6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My point of order is that you have just had a complaint from Mr English about an issue of corruption, yet the question, which is along the same lines as one last week, was to do with corruption. Today, even though question time is finished and the question is over, that member of Parliament\u2014an experienced one\u2014has still not produced one shred of evidence against another member of Parliament. He gets up and asks questions that have in them very serious allegations. He makes them up by innuendo and inference, and he is still not prepared to produce one shred of evidence to back up what he is saying\u2014the very complaint Mr English made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f60b9afaff41948b6ef923adcdf61d\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e3a1b222994fd68bf46e0fd6428f02\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. The member need not speak to it. It is not a valid point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002288cf02e30bde41a3b96dd5a2c1d3a50c\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022443bbff0d69d4002858f20466beb0fd3\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00227bdecb75718d45a9afccce669a2cfb7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bdecb75718d45a9afccce669a2cfb7d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. What is happening in the Labour caucus, when yesterday in the House we saw Clayton Cosgrove get up and talk about \u201Cwhen Dr Cullen gets hit by a bus\u201D? One knows what sorts of conversations are going on when one\u2019s colleagues start saying things like: \u201CWhat happens when Dr Cullen gets hit by a bus?\u201D. Well, one thing is quite clear: Helen Clark wishes he would get hit by a bus, because when his Budget went flat, when the public did not get the share of the surplus it is entitled to, and when he was strongly criticised, Helen Clark said and did nothing. In fact, it was so extraordinary that it passed the notice not only of the media but also of many politicians. I can never recall a Minister of Finance delivering a Budget, then having to handle the criticism without the support of the Prime Minister. That is what happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EHelen Clark cannot make up her mind about tax cuts. She knows tax cuts are very popular and deserved among the workers of New Zealand, but they are totally unpopular among the people who purport to be the representatives of the workers. So now she has a problem\u2014which is why she kept quiet\u2014and it is how to get some tax cuts on the agenda without fatally undermining Dr Cullen\u2019s credibility. That is why members opposite want him to go, because then they will not have to make the choice. Well, the bus that will hit Dr Cullen is one sitting in a street in Mount Roskill. And who is sitting in that bus waiting, waiting, waiting? It is Phil Goff. Not only is he waiting but he is smiling, because he has seen the efforts of his friend and colleague Trevor Mallard, who, in an extraordinary show last weekend on TV, said he wanted the job of Minister of Finance. It is OK for John Key to say that, and it is OK for back-benchers like Shane Jones to go around saying that they deserve the job, but when one\u2019s Associate Minister, a close friend of Helen Clark and message boy for her, says he is putting his hand up for the finance job, then that is another message for Dr Cullen, telling him it is time to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI hope Trevor Mallard gets the job, because he has no credibility. But that is a short-term point of view. It would be bad for the New Zealand economy for a man who cannot tell the difference between an asset and a liability to get the job of Minister of Finance. In his case, though, I can understand it, because Trevor Mallard\u2019s assets are his liabilities\u2014his ability to make up anything that comes into his head, to make up wild allegations he cannot justify, including, last week, when we were faced with the very serious business of electricity supply. Electricity supply is one of the biggest public issues at the moment, and that Minister just made up a number. He got up and said that the Government was investing five times as much in electricity supply as was invested in the 1990s. As my colleague Nick Smith pointed out, it is actually investing less. It is not investing 500 percent more; it is investing about 10 percent less. But that does not bother Trevor. Well, Mr Mallard is not going to get the job and Phil Goff is. Helen Clark knows that the sooner that happens in the Labour Party the better, because Dr Cullen\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb7306136a8406583d1b6791ea5815e\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Why isn\u2019t David Cunliffe in the mix?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227858676b4203487cb3d5ca98ac7e72d5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question, because I think he is an outstanding product of the Labour Party\u2014and I am not the only who thinks that, because so does he! The only one who thinks he is a more outstanding product is Shane Jones. The problem is that Dr Cullen has the job, and those members are just back-bench pretenders. Helen Clark wants Dr Cullen to go, and I think he knows it. Chris Trotter, that close friend of the Labour Party, has got it right. Dr Cullen has lost his patience with the electorate and with the Labour Party and has ended up being where he always wanted to be\u2014being the only one who is right. Everyone else is wrong, and he now no longer has the patience to take the criticism, to do the deals, to make the trade-offs, and to fend off his Cabinet. And his Cabinet colleagues will be putting pressure on him, because he is trying to put the lid on their expenditure. He is trying to stop the runaway train of Labour Ministers who have fed, and fed, and fed money to everyone who ever asked for it. And how is he going to stop them? I do not know. I do not know when Labour is going to take the call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ac6490d6cc43e88bd4a5ebd6d371c6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member please sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234756ed9868c46959f651d2e095f24ef\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: This is the first general debate in history in which the Labour Party has not sought the call. Well, I will just keep on going\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6f85da1cfc7460c9197ac6891bc390f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member please sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00229010448798014beea0d479b2cb9dac2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229010448798014beea0d479b2cb9dac2f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. What do we get? We get a poodle like you, \u201CMr 20 Percent Loser\u201D of the National Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371571ca451848a18fbbb55fda7a9458\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is now bringing the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022753db72b7ec7420e87064ba209a81f28\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is this. The bell was rung in the general debate, and we all know what it means. No prior notice is given; the bell ringing means that members must stop their speeches. The member kept on speaking for the next 30 seconds. He abused you as Assistant Speaker, ignoring you by turning his back on you, and you let him get away with that. There is not a separate set of rules for other members of Parliament. He should have been ejected from the House because of his contempt for the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b83e4e83bb3646e28141de4337de8f25\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank Mr Peters for that. I was waiting for another member to call. But I just say to the member on my left that he has only 5 minutes in a general debate. He knows that. He is not entitled to continue just because no one else takes the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e518724e472c417aa3edce659f881833\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e518724e472c417aa3edce659f881833\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not know whether, in my 16 years here, this issue has come up before. It is so unusual for this to happen. As I understand it, the determination of who is speaking, and when, is ultimately with you, Mr Assistant Speaker, not with the Clerk of the House. The Clerk of the House rings the bell; he does not decide whose call to take\u2014you do. Members call and you take those calls. In this case, because there was no call, we were left with the option that the House would have fallen silent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aada7664237461283be9ed1f29a34ed\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made his point; he will please be seated. I just say that if no one takes the call, the debate lapses and finishes. The member should have been seated\u2014and we have both learnt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u002274bd16ff5de24514b582d2130c95b665\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274bd16ff5de24514b582d2130c95b665\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did not take the call, because I thought it would be rude to interject while the person was still speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4cb0cfac9924458a57901bbf9e233e4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for that, but I ask her now to take the call, because in a general debate the bell goes at 5 minutes\u2014that is it, and everyone knows that. If someone does not take the call, then the whole debate lapses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u002294e7235b8dd94800a5d90166c7ce36a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294e7235b8dd94800a5d90166c7ce36a5\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E Last October Darrin Haimona, the chief executive of Waikato-based Ng\u0101ti Hau\u0101 Healthcare, told a domestic violence conference in Auckland that prior to European settlement, the role of women and children in Te Ao M\u0101ori was one of \u201Cdivinity and sanctity\u201D. The concepts of divinity and sanctity are ones that I have been again considering, in the aftermath of the latest tragedies that add further to our national shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe answers lie within ourselves. Researchers, historians, and analysts have revealed that in traditional life, abuse by M\u0101ori against women and children was regarded as a wh\u0101nau concern\u2014wh\u0101nau who would inevitably take action to restore the balance. Indeed, Stephanie Milroy has noted that \u201Cthe community intervened to prevent and punish violence against one\u2019s partner in a very straightforward way\u201D. The strategy in those times, of recognising the central importance of wh\u0101nau empowerment and liberation as a way of addressing violence is just as applicable today as it was then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ESo how did we get to a situation where our divine nation is ranked as the third worst among 27 OECD nations for child deaths, behind Mexico and the United States? How did we get to a situation where Child, Youth and Family reports that 30 new cases of abuse are confirmed each day? These are real questions, and they are questions that all members in this House must ask themselves. But they are also questions that every member of every family in this nation must consider as we step up to the challenge of addressing abuse and violence within our families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EChild Abuse Prevention Services chief executive officer, Tau Huirama, has risen to that challenge, saying that the best way to stop these tragedies from occurring is speaking out. He says that too many people are closing their eyes and looking the other way. Well maybe he has a point. It is time to stop the useless hand-wringing, the desperate blaming game, and the knee-jerk judgments that being M\u0101ori, being a teen parent, or being a single parent is the cause of this nation\u2019s woeful record. The M\u0101ori Party has consistently spoken of our desire to ensure that all people realise their potential, that the gifts and special qualities of every New Zealander are supported, and that our families are treasured as the collective cultural capital of Aotearoa. Gasping in horror or pointing the finger of blame will not achieve anything. We need as a nation to commit, as a nation, to protecting all our vulnerable, innocent tamariki through building a strong family network around them. And we can start that new beginning here, today, in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI was reflecting back on a time some 6 years ago, after another similar child tragedy had gripped the nation. M\u0101ori members of Parliament from Labour, National, New Zealand First, the Alliance, and ACT met together in a wonderful demonstration of kotahitanga, the principle of unity of purpose and direction. We were all sickened by the very thought of losing another child, and shared together our various histories and strategies that could be useful in making a difference. As it turned out, the politics power-game prevented the good ideas of that cross-party parliamentary team from ever taking life, but the very experience of working together for a common goal showed to me that it was definitely possible. It happened then; it could happen again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EMy colleague Hone Harawira yesterday shared some of the exciting initiatives occurring in the north, with the Amokura project, and spoke of the Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu violence-free iwi approach. There are many other good ideas that we could call on. Te Korowai Aroha has much that they could share about Project Mauriora, which has produced teams of wh\u0101nau practitioners who take practical steps to dispel the illusion that violence is acceptable. The Family First Lobby believes that we could reduce the prevalence of child abuse by providing relationship, marriage, and parenting education, and early intervention support, so that families have optimal chances for success. There is the Family Start programme, instituted by the Government, which I believe has a huge opportunity to make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThere will be many other ideas, right across this House and right throughout Aotearoa, that we could call on to help restore our nation to a world where children are truly cherished as symbols of divinity and sanctity. The M\u0101ori Party calls for that transformation to begin today, with this Parliament, working across Parliament to find solutions to what is truly a tragic situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00223b853153dd4c44f6a48de318267b951c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b853153dd4c44f6a48de318267b951c\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to follow such a thoughtful contribution from Tariana Turia. I thank her for her contribution, and say there will be no difficulty for the Government in working with the M\u0101ori Party\u2014and, I hope, with other members\u2014on an issue of this gravity. Her words were very well placed, and I congratulate her on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThere was an election campaign 9 months ago, in which the National Party said an $11 million bribe would probably be enough to get it into power. It said it would put the money on the table\u2014it was money that it did not have\u2014and see whether it got a big enough bite. But when that bribe was put to the sniff test, the New Zealand population said it did not think the bribe was affordable, and that it would rather have a future where there was investment in services, investment in infrastructure, and investment in economic development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ESo this Government was returned to office. Within 6 months the results of our promises had started to flow\u2014we began to deliver. On 1 April this year we rolled out the next phase of the Working for Families package. We said that interest on student loans would be abolished on 1 April this year. Those were policies that National fought bitterly. National fought them in the public press and in the House, and it certainly fought them throughout the campaign. National does not like the idea of addressing childhood poverty, if it comes at the expense of tax cuts for the rich. It does not like the idea of lightening the load of the New Zealand student population, if it comes at the cost of lightening the tax load on the rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe problem for National is that more is coming. We are now just a week and a bit away from the next tranche\u2014on 1 July this year more promises will be kept. Month after month and year after year, this Government keeps its promises and rolls out solutions to the problems that it sees are facing this country. So it is with the next phase of the primary health organisation roll-out. From 1 July a further 700,000 New Zealanders will have access to lower doctors\u2019 fees and to prescription charges of $3. That is the second to last change in the low fees roll-out of the Primary Health Care Strategy. The last phase of the roll-out will happen on 1 July next year, when 25 to 44-year-olds will get access to cheaper doctors\u2019 visits and a $3 prescription charge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EDid National like that policy? It did not. Does National oppose it? Yes, it does\u2014it is National\u2019s policy to oppose it. National members say 25 to 65-year-olds should not have access to cheap doctors\u2019 visits. They think that 25 to 65-year-olds should have access to expensive doctors\u2019 visits and to a prescription charge that is well above $3 per script. National has a view that that is the best way to run a health system, because if it makes those savings by making sure that people pay more to go to a doctor, then it can afford tax cuts for its rich buddies. What would happen, of course, is that the health of New Zealanders would be poorer as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe evidence for the importance of the Primary Health Care Strategy is legion; it comes from all over the place\u2014including from international sources, I might say. If people can get in to see a doctor, a practice nurse, or anyone in the primary health care sector in the early stages of their episodic or chronic illness, then a country will end up with a better health outcome. Lowering fees is a way to achieve that. That is not all that the Primary Health Care Strategy is, by any means; in fact, the strategy is far more comprehensive and multilateral than that. But low fees are where we are beginning, and low fees are what the National Party opposes\u2014that is its stated policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThen the question arises of whether National, if it were ever returned to office, would simply put those fees back up. Why did National Party members want those negotiations to fail? Why did they say the Government should not be future-proofing the Primary Health Care Strategy by making sure that future increases in doctors\u2019 fees were modest rather than excessive? Why did they try to make sure those negotiations went bad? Why are they unhappy that those negotiations succeeded? Why do they want New Zealanders to pay a whole lot more money to go to the doctor than is the case in many other countries? In Britain, the fee for going to a general practitioner is zero. In Australia, the fee for going to a general practitioner is about what it is under this Government and not what it would be had the National Party been re-elected. So it is around the world. Why is the National Party so out of date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022 data-id=\u00229b6a845141d94ee9b11a04b101e46935\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b6a845141d94ee9b11a04b101e46935\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Here we are again\u2014another Wednesday afternoon debate and another chapter of disasters for the House to reflect upon on the part of a Government that is, assuredly, on its way out. It is a Government that is now totally consumed by the battle between Trevor Mallard and the left, and Phil Goff and the right, for the position of deputy leader of the Labour Party. All the while, the current occupant of the deputy leadership, Dr Cullen, is vainly wandering around, imagining himself to be some latter-day Mickey Savage, when he is increasingly seen by his colleagues as a latter-day Mickey Mouse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EThe disaster that I want to reflect upon today is more serious than most. This is the problem that New Zealand must confront, now that we know we have a Government and a Prime Minister that are soft on terrorism. In the wake of the September 11 attacks, this Parliament was asked to pass, with some urgency, the Terrorism Suppression Bill 2002. Other jurisdictions passed similar legislation to provide a tool kit for their authorities to deal with the new threat of international terror. The legislation asked that we gazette and designate terrorists associated with al-Qaeda and the Taliban who were designated by the United Nations Security Council, and asked member States to identify further terrorists who might be a threat to the liberty, security, and well-being of their citizens or neighbours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI had fondly imagined that New Zealand, as a good international citizen, might have a Government that took that responsibility seriously. In reviewing that legislation last year I expressed some concern that New Zealand had not, on top of the UN list, designated a single terrorist or terrorist organisation under section 22 of our Terrorism Suppression Act 2002. However, I fondly imagined that our Prime Minister and our authorities might have done informally what they had not done formally\u2014ensured that there was in fact a list by which the authorities could protect New Zealand against undesirables entering our borders. The expulsion in recent weeks of Mr Rayed Ali raised important questions about whether terrorists could too easily enter these shores undetected, and today I want to table a list of terrorists and terrorist organisations\u201488 in all\u2014that have been designated by Australia, under its similar legislation, on top of the UN list. Those 88 terrorists or terrorist organisations are not on the list of terrorist organisations or entities in New Zealand and have not been gazetted by our Prime Minister under the legislation solemnly passed by this House in 2002 in the wake of the September 11 attacks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI want to know why these terrorists have not been so designated, and why the tool kit provided by this Parliament to superintend those terrorist entities is not being used by the authorities in this country. Our Prime Minister, unlike John Howard, is not prepared to give that tool kit to the authorities who are there to protect the security of New Zealanders. What is more frightening is that when I asked a question last week about the difference between New Zealand and Australia in this respect, I was told there was none. Assistant Police Commissioner White told us on National Radio: \u201CEntities that are listed in Canada and Australia that I think are being quoted here also cover ones that are listed by the UN and have thereby been designated in New Zealand.\u201D That was what the assistant police commissioner who is responsible for counter-terrorism told the country on National Radio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003ELast week in the House the Minister of Police, faced with allegations and assertions by me that there indeed was in Australia a list of 88 terrorist entities that had been designated by Australian authorities, said: \u201Cthere are not 88 terrorists on an Australian list.\u201D Well, today I will seek leave to table the list of 88 terrorist entities, designated by the Australian authorities but not designated by the New Zealand Prime Minister, that our Minister of Police told this House did not exist. I seek the leave of the House to table a list of 88 terrorist entities that have been designated by the Australian authorities, and not designated by the New Zealand Prime Minister under section 22 of the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207da3bd7f33c44668c5a96f6c963034b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022c08a766bba88474e97b7f6ad376f33bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c08a766bba88474e97b7f6ad376f33bd\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E We are seeing not only the leadership bids but the Cabinet wannabe bids. That was Murray McCully. The problem is that the member wants to portray himself as a statesman, and believes that the status of office will attach itself to him if he could come and sit over where we sit\u2014we could always swap sides. The member cannot behave in that way one moment when, a matter of minutes before, he put forward the notion that New Zealand should try to outbid Japan with cheque-book diplomacy. It simply will not do. It is simply incredible, and people will not have a bit of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EWe have already seen today that the gloves are off. Bill English is in an unbridled leadership bid. I have never seen the likes of it. I say to the senior Opposition whip that I felt for him. The whip\u2019s job is a tough job. I have sat in that seat\u2014I am a former senior Opposition whip. When the member who was trying to portray himself as a leader stood up and humiliated his own senior whip\u2014made him sit down; waved him down\u2014I saw the look on the senior whip\u2019s face. He had every right to the outrage and anger he felt when that upstart, wannabe leader waved him down. The National members are all after that job\u2014the empty seat on the front bench opposite. I do not know which is worse\u2014the boxer boy we saw this afternoon or the man who is now apparently obsessed with either Merrill Lynch or Trevor Mallard. He wakes up and his first thought of the day is about either Merrill Lynch or Trevor Mallard. I am not sure which of the two is the more scary. It is either one of those two or what the Sunday Star-Times editorial in February 2004 described as: \u201Cthe voice of ignorance, narrow political advantage, and selfishness: the voice of Don Brash.\u201D That is the choice that confronts New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EIs that the sort of alternative to a Government that is rolling out the promises it made? My friend and colleague the Hon Pete Hodgson talked about some of the promises that will roll out on 1 July this year, following last year\u2019s election promises. In the Budget this year were extensive health investments in our people and our future. That is what this Government is about, unlike like the wannabes opposite. This Government is about investing in our people, our country, and our future, and about honouring the commitments we made. In terms of one of my own portfolio responsibilities, I am proud to say that by the end of this week we will have seen the Local Government Law Reform Bill through Parliament. Unlike the baying around the red herrings in that bill\u2014the minor matters that are in it\u2014I say that there are some pretty major issues there. At the heart of it are the rates rebate changes. On 1 July the promise will be kept. There will be a significant increase in the number of people eligible for assistance with the payment of their rates. In the current year something like 4,000 people were eligible. We will see the full rebate increase in place on 1 July. The eligible income amount will go up, from $7,400 to $20,000. That will see up to 300,000 low-income and fixed-income New Zealanders now eligible for the $500 maximum, not $200 but $500\u2014up from the 4,000 who claimed it this year\u2014because this Government believes in investing in our older people, and looking after those who helped build this great country of ours. It is a great country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThis Government is proud of our country, and proud of our people, and it wants to invest in them, and I have to say, it is in stark contrast to those opposite who are already trying to fight over the baubles of office and fight over the positions. We have seen the mean-spirited attitudes that would be the alternative. In place of the investment in New Zealand and New Zealanders we would see the stripping away of assets. Don Brash is on record, and no one opposite has challenged him: sell off Kiwibank; sell off New Zealand Post; and sell off the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2014do away with all those great institutions that are part of serving and looking after the interests of New Zealand\u2014and sell away our nuclear-free status, I have no doubt, along with sending our young men and women off to Iraq.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00226ad36fa9228e439796f234afbc0bfa40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ad36fa9228e439796f234afbc0bfa40\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E That speech was about as exciting as a busted arm, I have to say; it was an absolute shocker. Members always know when a Government is in trouble, and when they are in trouble, when they hear their colleagues start to talk negatively about them. We on this side have been through it; we have been there and done that. Let me tell members that that is happening more and more on that side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe other day I was at a select committee hearing. Let me tell members about the great genius Rick Barker. He came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee, chaired by Shane Jones, to be questioned for an hour. Paul Swain, Mark Gosche, and George Hawkins were there supporting Labour, and Doug Woolerton was there. On National\u2019s side were myself, Chris Tremain, and Craig Foss. Away we went; we had an hour with Rick. Well, spending an hour with Rick was even worse than watching paint dry, but never mind. There we were, and we started questioning Rick. Well, members saw what he was like yesterday when we started asking questions, and some of the stuff we got from John Armstrong\u2019s article this morning about Dad\u2019s Army, etc., was very funny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EBut I have to tell members this. What was really funny were the looks on the faces of, and the comments from, Rick Barker\u2019s colleagues during and after the meeting. We had a whole series of questions and then, finally, Shane Jones had had enough. He said we would have the last question, and Craig Foss asked the last question. Craig asked the question and Rick made some strangled sounds and got the answer out, whatever it was. Rick went over and over it but we could not understand it. Then Shane Jones said he was pleased to announce that, mercifully, that was the end of the questions. I thought that that was really saying something about one\u2019s colleague. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EBut during the questioning George Hawkins\u2014ex - Minister of Civil Defence\u2014knew that Rick was in trouble. He knew that Rick was on the spot and in trouble. So George came up with the patsy of all patsy questions. He said to Rick\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be8dc48a14424d4e81708bef3a481074\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Please use the member\u2019s full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd4855908af04299be560a2e20269d7f\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E George Hawkins said to Rick Barker: \u201CThere are 16 civil defence regions in New Zealand.\u201D\u2014well, that came as a surprise to Rick, but, anyway, we got through that. And George said to Rick: \u201CThey\u2019ve all had to put in a civil defence plan.\u201D Rick said: \u201CYes \u2026 \u201D. George Hawkins asked: \u201CMr Barker, how many plans have been signed off?\u201D. Well, Doug Woolerton knew the answer, Paul Swain knew, and George Hawkins knew, of course, because he was the former Minister. Mark Gosche, Shane Jones, and we on our side knew. Only one guy did not know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bbd64bb93f548c28b395a90ab099b91\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: Who was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216effd355715470c8e72f6c13dac40fc\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Rick Barker! He did not know, so he made more strangled sounds and then said: \u201CHang on, I will ask the officials.\u201D An official said to him: \u201CLook, I think that we\u2019re probably going to get some good stuff out of these things and they\u2019ll be very good when they arrive.\u201D Rick Barker said: \u201CThere you are, there\u2019s the answer.\u201D So I said: \u201CWell, hang on, but that hasn\u2019t answered the question of how many have been signed off. That\u2019s what George Hawkins wants to know.\u201D Rick Barker made more strangled sounds and asked the officials again, and there was no answer\u2014they could not tell him. So in the end I said: \u201CRick, I think there have been 16 signed off.\u201D He said: \u201COh, yes, well, there could be.\u201D Well, poor old Mark Gosche was sitting there and he said: \u201CYou just can\u2019t help some people sometimes, can you?\u201D. George Hawkins\u2014the previous Minister of Civil Defence\u2014just wanted to slide under the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a802922f644308b4c356805852980e\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: He should be proud because Rick makes him look good!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b87c17db98a4d07b69e3bf96b2633fe\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is the point. I am starting to hear people in civil defence ask for George Hawkins back. I mean, bless my soul! The point is that the member\u2019s own colleagues have started making comments. Poor old Paul Swain was so stunned that he could not talk for 3 or 4 days afterwards, actually. After Rick left, the looks of disbelief and dismay between the members were just something to see. The chairman of the committee said it was merciful it was over, one member said there is no helping some people, the poor old previous Minister was just shocked, and another colleague sat there with his hand on his forehead, like he is right now, hoping that it was just a dream or a bad nightmare or something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fa262be66614526bd53a891972617d1\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Did he buy the video?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022759c3aadf25243baac927dfbda5d574c\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, exactly. The point is that when members get to the stage where their colleagues are dismayed and not supportive, they are in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fed7cdcd5cdc430e95b4069a1b9233a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fed7cdcd5cdc430e95b4069a1b9233a2\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, talofa lava, and warm Pacific greetings. Families are the heart of our nation. We all know that strong families and communities contribute to the social and economic development of a strong, independent nation. That is why the Labour-led Government is committed to supporting New Zealand families, young and old, from their early years to their golden years. We are in Government to make a difference for the better, and we are doing so, thanks to our Minister of Finance, Dr Michael Cullen, who weaves all these threads together to deliver strong social and economic development for our nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E1 July this year will see the rolling out of a number of initiatives that are aimed at supporting New Zealand families, to make their lives healthier and happier. Supporting older New Zealanders is a big part of the 1 July roll-out, along with the rates rebate scheme that will benefit up to 300,000 low-income New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThe Labour-led Government has also made a commitment to progressively remove asset testing, and that is exactly what it is doing. In my electorate of Mana we have a large proportion of senior citizens who will applaud that action. Our elders and our senior citizens have also worked hard and contributed to building this nation. It is only right that in their golden years we can reciprocate their significant contributions, and we are doing so by continuing the phase-out of income and asset testing for people in aged residential care from 1 July\u2014a key election promise from 1999. From 1 July single people, and couples with both partners in care, will be able to keep up to $160,000\u2014up from $150,000 currently\u2014in assets before those assets are used to contribute to the cost of their care. The Labour-led Government is investing $14.3 million to enable this year\u2019s threshold increase, on top of the $93 million invested, to continue the phase-out started last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThis policy is about fairness. Older New Zealanders who have built up assets throughout their lives should not be penalised when they go into residential care. Our policy contrasts starkly with National\u2019s heartless position. Members should remember that National introduced asset testing for older New Zealanders last time it was in office, forcing many older New Zealanders to sell their family homes in order to receive care\u2014lest we forget!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThe Labour-led Government is committed to improving the quality of life for all Kiwi families. From I July 2006 we will also deliver on our key election commitment regarding the extension of eligibility for the higher single rate of superannuation to married superannuitants with a partner in long-term residential care. The New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the War Pensions Amendment Bill are designed to ensure fairer and more equitable treatment for many older New Zealanders. The main aim of these bills is to extend eligibility for the higher single rates of New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension to all superannuitants and veterans pensioners who have spouses or partners in long-term residential care in a hospital or rest home. That change will mean up to about $60 extra per week for approximately 2,000 qualifying older New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThe bills also remove the sharing expenses rule, which is arbitrary and too strict in places, and extend to 156 weeks the time for which a person can be paid New Zealand superannuation or the veterans pension while he or she is overseas and undertaking voluntary work for a recognised aid agency like Volunteer Service Abroad. This year is the Year of the Veteran, and these bills offer further evidence that the Labour-led Government is committed to ensuring that superannuitants and veterans pensioners are able to live in dignity and security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EWe promised to deliver to New Zealand families, young and old\u2014and we are. The roll-out of the 1 July initiatives is proof of our commitment to keeping our promises but, more important, these initiatives are making a difference in the lives of many older New Zealanders throughout the country, and that is what really matters. Our elders and our families are the heart of our nation. They are the most important priorities in New Zealanders\u2019 lives. That is why this Labour-led Government will always put their well-being, their security, and their happiness high on the agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u00226a9510954de94261918b307caf9a4ca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a9510954de94261918b307caf9a4ca2\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to follow the member, Winnie Laban, because I know she is a member of her word, and I was absolutely delighted by what she had to say for the older people in this country. I am going to offer her another challenge, and I have no doubt that she will take it up because it is written in the confidence and supply agreement between New Zealand First and the Government. I will read the bullet point that refers to it: \u201CInvestigate ways to improve options for senior citizens who may be eligible for foreign pensions as well as New Zealand Superannuation.\u201D New Zealand First has had that concern for quite some time, along with other concerns that affect the elderly\u2014like increasing superannuation, which was done at our behest recently, and like the introduction of a golden age card, which will be in place by about this time next year. Asset testing is an issue that New Zealand First took up when it was in coalition with National. Now we will play hardball on this issue. Now we are prepared to step up our campaign to address it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ELet me explain to the House what happens. Under section 70 of the legislation the chief executive of the Ministry of Social Development has discretionary powers to determine what overseas pensions are able to be deducted from New Zealand superannuation before it is received. We believe that in many cases the chief executive officer is getting it wrong and, as a result, it has become punitive and unfair. We are talking about 50,000 people in this country. Those 50,000 people have paid their taxes and made a positive contribution to New Zealand society and, indeed, to societies somewhere else in the world. It is so ridiculous and unfair, and I will alert the House to one situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe know of a lady who married an American. She lived in America for some time, but for most of her life she has lived here and paid taxes here. The American\u2014her husband\u2014worked in America and he paid into a private scheme that was administered by the Government. As a result, he receives a pension. As a result, she gets zilch\u2014absolutely nothing; not a cent; not a brass razoo. She worked in this country for something like 19 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fcb904652f24113b17ada644ffcac32\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: But she gets New Zealand superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022815c3dd7820e4f329218b99ef4c77e9d\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: She does not get superannuation, because she is married to an American who gets superannuation. He invested his own money, but because it was a Government scheme his wife does not qualify. If they divorced she would get New Zealand superannuation in her own right. I ask members whether that makes sense. Is that fair? The answer has to be that it is not only unfair but also it is downright crazy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is determined to address this issue. There are other people in similar circumstances, but that is the most ludicrous one that we have heard of for quite some time. We know that there must be a clear distinction between State pensions contributed to overseas and here, but it does not make sense for us to allow people to save through Kiwibank, which is a State entity, and receive superannuation, but if people do the same thing in the UK or the USA, or if their spouses do the same thing, their superannuation entitlements here will be reduced. We know that the Minister is undertaking a review of this, we are hopeful that the results of that review will be forthcoming in the not too distant future, and we hope they will be positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EMy colleague asked the Minister of Finance a number of questions this very afternoon, and I have to say that whilst the Minister\u2019s answers were encouraging, they were not categoric. They did not actually address the issue as we believe it should be addressed. New Zealand First is going to play hardball on this. We believe that the 50,000 people I have referred to are entitled to a fair go. We are not advocating double-dipping; we are not advocating that people should get something they are not entitled to or that they have not contributed to; but we are claiming that if people have paid into a scheme overseas with private money they are entitled to some return on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7b2ae038561431ba633de6508622a96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7b2ae038561431ba633de6508622a96\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E We have a Government that thinks inserting a microchip into the neck of a dog will stop the dog from attacking. Obviously, Government members are hopeful that if they insert microchips into the necks of some of their Ministers and caucus members, it may re-inspire them, reinvigorate them\u2014or even just retire them. We have so-called rising stars mutating before our eyes into falling meteors. We have Ministers\u2014and this is amazing\u2014who do not know their left from their right, their assets from their liabilities. A Minister who is aspiring to be the Minister of Finance says\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220deae68403dc4e8f95fbbc64e74c3f9b\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd15dc12ba364ec5825138bdf6c80a22\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot remember his name! He is a Minister with such financial acumen that he says: \u201Cyou\u2019ve gotta remember with the SOEs that going bust doesn\u2019t quite mean what it might mean for some other companies, you know for example if Meridian went bust you\u2019d still have a lot of windmills and a lot of dams, so it\u2019s a financial rather than putting all the assets at risk\u201D. And he aspires to be the Minister of Finance! Yet he admits: \u201CI take responsibility for the incorrect advice, and the Prime Minister has made her displeasure clear to me.\u201D I have to say that I do not much rate his chances of being the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ESadly and tragically, we have a Prime Minister who thinks that the disaster in South Canterbury is great. She said: \u201CI am pleased to see the snow. I love skiing so it is good to see that they are getting off to a great start with the ski season.\u201D But some people in South Canterbury still do not have power. To this day, 800 connections in Ashburton have yet to be reinstated, and there are 700 such connections in South Canterbury. A total of 1,500 hard-working, self-reliant, courageous contributors to our economy still do not have power, and the Prime Minister just wants to go skiing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EFurthermore, we have a Minister of Civil Defence who does not even know that water pumps need power\u2014no power, no water. Those people in South Canterbury who are suffering enough by being ignored by the current Government do not even have the power to draw water. They also need cellphones. They use cellphones. They are reliant on cellphones\u2014if they can get coverage. But our Minister of Civil Defence does not realise that those phones use batteries, and that those batteries need charging. In order to charge those batteries, power is needed, and we still have 1,500 suffering souls in South Canterbury and Ashburton who still do not have power. That is a civil defence disaster. It does not require a telephone call to the BBC to confirm that it is a civil defence disaster; we know it is a disaster and we know something should be done about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ECuriously, we also have a Minister who thinks that the laws we make here in this very House are there for guidance\u2014that they are not compulsory, they are not binding. They are just a guideline for some of us, in order to decide whether to obey. I find it amazing that we have a Minister in this House who believes that the laws of our land are for guidance only. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWe have a Minister of Finance who is most intent on looking backwards. We can understand that, because he is watching his own back. But he has forgotten to look forward to what is best for New Zealand and what it is that New Zealanders actually want. They want to know that after 7 long years of this Government it is time for the Government to stop blaming others for its own inactivity. Seven long years is enough time in which to have made some improvement to our electricity system, so that the breakdown of one cable does not plunge all of Auckland into darkness. New Zealanders do not want excuses; they want results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders also want to know that good laws will be made here in this Parliament\u2014not stupid, dopey laws like the one that presumes microchipping a dog will stop a dog attack. Microchipping a dangerous dog will not turn it into a harmless dog, and neither will microchipping irresponsible owners turn them into responsible owners. When Treasury thinks that a law is stupid, when local authorities think it is stupid, when most New Zealanders think it is stupid, then chances are it really is stupid. If it looks like a dog, and barks like a dog, then it must be a dog, and I have to say that this microchipping law, to excuse the pun, is certainly a dog of a law. We need only one vote to put a stop to that law\u2014one vote whether from New Zealand First, United Future, or the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u00222c2c8629988b4d60a7aabf4f6575ead7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c2c8629988b4d60a7aabf4f6575ead7\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to join the debate this afternoon, because I am proud to talk about what a Labour Government has delivered to the people of New Zealand. We are interested in the concerns of all New Zealanders and we have delivered on that in a multitude of ways. On 1 July this year we are extending subsidies to those aged 45 to 64 when they visit their primary health organisations. That is a wonderful policy, and I am very proud that we are delivering on the policies we went to the electorate with at the last election and the election before that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EWe are providing greater subsidies for early childhood education, which is critical to the future education of our young New Zealanders. Paid parental leave is being extended to the self-employed, and it was tragic that \u201Cdancing Rodney\u201D and \u201Cfiring blanks Heather Roy\u201D were absent when we voted on those very key policy issues. Paid parental leave is good for women and it is good for families, but both of those ACT MPs were absent from the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EThe rates rebate scheme is excellent for older New Zealanders, and delivers directly a policy that Labour has campaigned on for years. The National Land Transport Programme is building more roads and improving road safety in our constituencies, and is helping to keep New Zealanders alive as we improve the condition of our roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EI have to say that the \u201Cspeaking out of both sides of their mouth\u201D attitude of the National Party members with regard to the microchipping of dogs will be remembered by many New Zealanders for a very, very long time. National voted for the third reading of the 2003 bill that included microchipping. The third reading is the last chance a party has to object to a Government bill, and the National members lined up and voted for it. But now that the heat has gone on, they are getting lily-livered, turning to jelly at the knees, and being populist. They forget that they voted for the current bill at its first reading in 2006. Well, some of us have not forgotten that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218024980166f4802a0f0b9085d3e9575\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: Jellimeat parliamentarians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4992f2b23904131931cd2f801dc1ad0\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: Jellimeat parliamentarians, absolutely! I mention that because it is an indication of the extreme measures that National members will go to\u2014anything for a vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EBut, fortunately, the majority of New Zealanders are astute, and they are awake to National. The reality of the matter is that National is not revealing its real, extreme agenda, because it knows that fair-minded New Zealanders would bolt in horror if they learnt what National reallystands for. National stands for extreme policies that would be bad for the majority of New Zealanders. Brash knows that if he revealed the truth, the National Party would be totally unelectable. Brash has said some very extreme things. He has admitted, and I quote: \u201CI\u2019d work with the Devil to get rid of this Government.\u201D He said that on One News on 29 October. I suggest that he already is in cahoots with the Devil, and it is called the Exclusive Brethren. Those people donated $1.2 million to National, but Mr Brash could not remember it. On 5 September he said that oh, no, no, he did not know who was responsible for the pamphlets, but then only 3 days later he said he knew some pamphlets were going to be delivered. The partnership between that sect, that cult, and National members will haunt them at the next election campaign, I can assure them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EThe other part of National\u2019s policy that is horrifying to fair-minded New Zealanders is employers being able to sack workers within 90 days of employing them. That comes at a time when we have the lowest unemployment rate in the OECD, and Brash says: \u201CThe main benefit of this bill is that it will give people who now find it hellishly hard to get a job, a better chance of doing so.\u201D That is a quote from Brash. The \u201CSacked in 90 Days\u201D bill that National supports is about giving employers the right to sack any worker, without any justification being given at all. It is absolutely outrageous. It shows that National has no sense of justice, and no sense of what is fair. And it is not just the low-paid workers, the low-skilled workers, who would be affected. The \u201Csacked in 90 days\u201D bill would affect teachers, public servants, and academics; it would affect all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3dd959dce4641d998b3d61173cc2665\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3dd959dce4641d998b3d61173cc2665\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Things have a real final-term look about them, and it is obvious in the arrogance of the Labour Government. A week or so ago a single wire flicked over, on to another one, and put 700,000 consumers into darkness. Two nights later, of course, another little substation got blown up in Remuera. But none of this is the Government\u2019s responsibility; none of it at all! Labour has been 7 years in Government, but none of this is its fault. Labour has been in Government for 12 of the last 22 years, but none of this is its fault, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ELabour has the look of a final-term Government when its deputy leader loses it on the Government\u2019s own TV channel, tosses his toys, and blames the media for identifying his meanness at Budget time. He is losing it. It is harder for Government members to laugh at his jokes. He is getting more tetchy every day. He is falling further and further from grace as it becomes more obvious to all the members on the other side of the House that there is an imperative for tax cuts. So he has been given the nudge that he should not bank on being back to deliver the Budget next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWe know that Labour is really on the way out when its members are scrapping over who is going to get the finance job. It is looking more and more like a third-term bun fight or fist fight, when we are not too sure who the replacement is going to be. One choice is the guy who cannot tell an asset from a liability, and another choice is a bloke who, with a single slip of the tongue, knocked $200 million off Telecom. The third choice is the guy who, year on year, writes false information that he files as a company return, including time when he was an MP and including time when he was the Attorney-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is looking more and more like a third-term bun fight or fist fight when at question time a well-put inquiry to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs was met with an: \u201COh, look buddy, this isn\u2019t really the time or place for these sorts of questions.\u201D A little pat on the head, and \u201CRun along sonny, can\u2019t you see I\u2019m trying to sleep. Don\u2019t ask questions like that, come and see me later on. Just roll along.\u201D It is absolute arrogance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWe know that time is running out when the Prime Minister is so far from reality that when the most devastating snowstorm occurs, with stock dying and people trapped in their homes without power and water for days and days, her response is that she is very pleased with the snow. Things have a real final-term look to them. We are seeing the cracks. We are seeing the splits in the Teflon. We are seeing the exterior smudges on the airbrushing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Government is in the cart. It is wondering where to look next for its next mate. On the other side of it, we have its coalition partners who are trying very hard to balance the tension between keeping themselves relevant to the constituency they hold\u2014where voters ticked their box last time\u2014and maintaining a foot in the door of Government, and having to flex their muscles from time to time to be able to distinguish between the two. It is really unusual to see the odd snipe coming from the nearly empty seats on the other side of the House as members throw rocks at the blokes they used to get along well with and throw bouquets to the blokes they used to throw the rocks at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220717123eee514e22853eb4a0fcc2c690\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s just on their own side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a1f7d58c7764797a147bf38d8fa512f\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. So they have to wake up and look at the roses or lie back and think of England; who knows what they will do in their own spare time. I say it is looking more and more like a final term Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Opposition does not\u2014and never will\u2014assume the result of the next election. But the Government has a very smelly look around credibility and integrity issues, and people know it. People are asking questions of this Government more and more and are getting fewer and fewer answers. They are told to go away and not to bother the Government with their questions; the Government is in control and they are told to go along and get on with their own little jobs. I ask members to look at the microchipping debate. The Government knows it will not work. No one can give a single reason why microchipping will work. No one can even give a single answer as to why it will work. Nevertheless Government members are going to vote for it. More and more, they are on their own. More and more guys are leaving the Government side and saying this is not going to fly, it is not going to work. Mr Anderton himself stood up and said: \u201CHang on, no. 3 beats no. 18 every time, don\u2019t you know?\u201D. Well, no. 18 beat no. 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7fcd970378244bdad58d1e8286fda8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7fcd970378244bdad58d1e8286fda8e\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will recall that during\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3075f1dbcd844ff819dc4b95c0918b0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! While there is a point of order, there is to be absolute silence, and the member knows that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b4810b07d8418faea906412d554cdc\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014my discourse to the House, you very correctly ensured that when I addressed members and talked about members, I said their full name\u2014Rick Barker or Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230fbf50134d54145aeb956a557e3108e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Most times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddaebc77cf844475a8727a249ba9612e\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: You kept pulling me into line. I wonder why, then, the same did not happen to Jill Pettis when she kept referring to the leader of the National Party as \u201CBrash\u201D. He is Don Brash or he is Mr Brash, or he is the leader of the National Party. We need to have consistency. If we have rulings for one side, then they need to be common right across Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022870a5325d13c4081a232f581c96a2313\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that. I heard the honourable member once or twice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d1b5a2b18a04adb9a344936b1ab51a5\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Three times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a891f156fb4a7aa6b00be8ac175faf\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Was it three times? I am sorry, I missed that. The member is quite right. In fact it is covered by Speaker\u2019s rulings 26/6 and 26/7. Thank you for drawing that to my attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u00225a58982c6fab42e1841cb77847d68cee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a58982c6fab42e1841cb77847d68cee\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thought Jill Pettis was using the term \u201Cbrash\u201D as an adjective. When I realised who she was speaking about, I had to reconsider and realised she had offended the Standing Orders. The last speaker, John Carter, spoke about consistency in his point of order. This takes me to Dr Brash and what he said about 30 percent of the electorate of Napier: \u201CCould we perhaps gradually raise the age at which people become eligible for New Zealand superannuation?\u201D. Tell that to 16,500 Napier people\u2014that we could perhaps gradually raise the age at which people become eligible for superannuation. Tell that to Grey Power, whose members yesterday held their AGM and elected a new president, Don Patterson, and I welcome him to the chair that I once occupied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EGrey Power is an organisation in Napier that speaks on behalf of the 30 percent of people there who are aged 50 or over. The organisation knows that the mantra peddled in Napier\u2014that people should get ahead under their own steam\u2014has no application to it. Its members are people who have worked hard and honestly and diligently, raising families, but without having the choice of flexible incomes and choices of lifestyles. They have put their noses to the grindstone and have earned the superannuation of which the Leader of the Opposition, Dr Brash, asks whether the age at which people become eligible for it could be gradually raised. I ask him to come to Napier and say that to Don Patterson of Grey Power. I ask him to come to a meeting of Grey Power members in Napier and tell them that. He will find that that policy will not be very well received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI listened to the last speaker, Chester Borrows, and I had to look up the index of electorates represented by people in this House. He spoke in this debate without once referring to the electorate he represents. That is probably because he forgot which one it was. Jill Pettis addressed the issues arising from her electorate very well, and I look forward to the day that she is returned as the electorate member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThat speaker who does not know which electorate he comes from put his finger on what is happening in the Labour ranks. It is the rejuvenation of the ranks as the young, capable men and women come through. We have seen that in the recent appointments of David Parker, as Minister of Energy, Nanaia Mahuta, as Minister of Youth Affairs, and of Clayton Cosgrove and David Cunliffe. These are people whom members on the other side of the House can only look at with envy and wish they had them on their party\u2019s front bench or even anywhere near it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003ELet us go back to see what the National Party would do for the Napier electorate. It is not surprising that the member for Napier is not in the House today, because he knows\u2014as he must\u2014that 30 percent of the Napier electorate are over 50, that 14 percent\u20149,000 of them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224af723cc6e234182ab9ca1112845f284\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member should open his eyes and notice that the member for Napier is in the House today, and he has a majority of 3,600 I might add.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022619fb254a90541b9ba99bc69534fa400\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, and I hope, Mr Speaker, that that will not come off my time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298fd465f4b01471eab0000d2c6372b6a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a point of order, but you must not refer to someone\u2019s absence or otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221849bdca91b74ac6ab56fbbbea693c92\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: I meant absence from the debate, of course. He is a member who does not know the rules, so I suppose that point of order underscores that entirely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EFourteen percent of the Napier electorate are over 65, and they are the people who will be affected by the Dr Brash mantra asking whether the age at which people become eligible for New Zealand superannuation could be raised. Instead, from 1 July that 14 percent of the electorate will receive cheaper doctors\u2019 visits and cheaper prescriptions from the pharmacy. Those who have a long-term partner in a rest home will receive asset testing of $160,000 and rising. Those with a partner in long-term care will now be eligible for the single rate of superannuation. That cry has been made for some time in Napier, and people there will welcome that change. The significant thing is that on 1 July, 16 percent of households in the Napier electorate will benefit from the rates rebate. It means that up to $500 will be deductible from the rates bill. Nearly 2,700 families in Napier are eligible for this rates rebate. This applies not just to our older citizens\u2014those affected by Grey Power\u2014but to the many low-income people, the people who generally live in the two deprivation 10 index numbers in the Napier electorate. So 1 July is a red-letter day from a red-coloured Government. It is a Government that progresses matters for those issues that it really cares about. This contrasts with the parsimonious, self-satisfied, beat the Devil, beat the poorer class, motto of \u201CGet ahead under your own steam.\u201D, which really is all about beating one\u2019s neighbour and profiting for oneself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfaa6c6eea334c9489337e35fa0f086a\u0022\u003ELocal Government Law Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d60d881a73e4478582fdf66acdc472e2\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000392\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 20 June.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002221ccaf44b6704892a7cc26ad55f44269\u0022\u003EPart 1  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000394\u0022\u003EAmendments to Dog Control Act 1996 (continued)\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022abb7662fbfe642f092bdadcfb3d187b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abb7662fbfe642f092bdadcfb3d187b5\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Members will recall that when the debate was interrupted last night, I was speaking to two handwritten amendments in my name in relation to the dog control clauses of the Local Government Law Reform Bill. I will refresh members\u2019 minds as to what those two amendments are about. The first seeks to amend clause 8A by adding a new paragraph that states: \u201CAny dog savaging a child under 13 years must be put down.\u201D We have listened to speech after speech from the other side, all repeating the same mantra: \u201CMicrochipping will not stop dogs biting, but we will impose the measure because we all said we would.\u201D How realistic is that in dealing seriously with the issue facing us\u2014dog attacks on young people like Carolina Anderson, who was the genesis of this piece of legislation? The Government has brought out a concept about registration, not about dealing with dogs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe Hon Damien O\u2019Connor last night said that he wanted to see dogs that savaged people put down. Well, I tell him that this is the day when he should support my amendment, because that is exactly what it proposes. If the Government is serious about actually dealing with the problem, then it will support my amendment, because that would change the behaviour of dog owners. It will change the way in which dogs are handled in public. It is the most proficient step I can think of in doing something positive to stop dogs biting children. I ask members to consider the amendment as a very positive way forward in sending the strongest possible message to deal with the issue. It is simply not good enough to say: \u201CWe know that microchips will not stop dogs biting but we will impose the measure anyway.\u201D That is the reason for the first amendment in my name\u2014to stop dogs that actually bite children. Anybody who does not support that amendment\u2014anybody who is not prepared to vote for that amendment\u2014is saying that dogs are more valuable than children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe second amendment in my name, which I want to bring to members\u2019 attention, proposes to delete the dead dog clause. Local authority after local authority fronted up to the Local Government and Environment Committee, and to individual members in their electorates around New Zealand, saying that this bill adds costs and includes a lot of unnecessary measures. I will refresh members\u2019 minds as to what the Dog Control Act states. Section 10 of the principal Act states that it is the duty of territorial authorities to adopt a policy on dogs. That is fair enough. Why, then, does the Government want to be specific and precise, and implement a whole lot of other measures? My second amendment would delete new section 41A inserted by clause 9D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThen I saw that the Minister had introduced an amendment that I thought did the same thing. When I saw it, I thought: \u201CHello, the Government is listening.\u201D But, no\u2014it gets worse. The Minister wants to insert an even more prescriptive provision that imposes a 28-day requirement to comply with the measure. That is absolute nonsense! Members should consider the practicality for farmers and other dog owners, who could be engaged in a range of things when their dogs die. They could be overseas, having left the dog in the care of someone else who might not be as diligent in reporting the death of the dog. They could be mustering, or in the middle of lambing. They could be occupied by a range of things that make it simply impractical to report a death within 28 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI ask any member on the other side of the Chamber to tell me what damage a dead dog can do. What is the mischief in not reporting a dog as having died? The identity of a dog cannot be transferred\u2014particularly if it is microchipped. When the time comes to renew registration, the dog owner will simply not pay for another registration. Have members ever looked at a local authority registration form? It lists the dogs registered in the person\u2019s ownership\u2014those listed on the previous year\u2019s form\u2014and provides spaces to record newly acquired dogs, dogs sold, and dogs deceased. It is as simple as that. So why are we now requiring local authorities to enforce this measure\u2014and prescriptively so; within 28 days\u2014whether or not that is practical? The Minister\u2019s amendment says that a dog owner must provide notification if it is \u201Crequested to do so by the territorial authority;\u201D. If we are to devolve to local authorities the power to say whether they need notification, ought they not to be the ones who decide whether the time limit should be 28 days, 6 months, or the next time of registration? Why do we want to be so prescriptive and have another add-on of costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe heard a lot of submissions in regard to dog control. One of the most impressive was from the Marlborough District Council, and it expressed something to bear in mind when we vote on the amendment proposing to remove the necessity to microchip working dogs. The council deals with that matter now in Marlborough, and it is not an issue. It simply says that if someone claims that his or her chihuahua\u2014or Alaskan malamute, or Great Dane, or whatever\u2014is a farm dog, the dog control officer requires a test. It is as simple as that. If the officer is not satisfied, then the dog is not registered as a farm dog\u2014no ifs, no buts, no maybes, and no correspondence entered into. It is interesting to see from the statistics on the management of dogs\u2014stray dogs, dogs worrying stock, and dogs biting people\u2014that the Marlborough district is a fine example. It has shown initiative. It is not for the Minister or for Parliament to tell local authorities what to do. We should go back to section 10 of the original Act\u2014the territorial authority must develop a dog management policy. It is as simple as that; that is the common-sense approach to take. Instead, we start getting prescriptive and imposing measures that require costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EToday I received a letter from the Tasman District Council expressing its concern and making a couple of points. I will table this letter, because I want other people to read it. The Tasman District Council says that the levy should be set at zero and that the Government must carry the responsibility for the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI seek leave to table a letter from the Tasman District Council with regard to dog management and microchipping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002214fcd7941fdb432e9fdd3d09021930eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214fcd7941fdb432e9fdd3d09021930eb\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Associate Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I take a brief call at this point to indicate to the House that I will seek prior to voting to have the provision relating to dead dogs removed. Having heard the good, sound arguments of Doug Woolerton last night, and considered the issue, I think that that is the right course to take on this particular issue. Common sense prevails in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f84b631f15684cacaa98cfd702301485\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f84b631f15684cacaa98cfd702301485\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It is a point of clarification. Just to be absolutely clear, is the Minister taking away the reference to the dead dog provision\u2014new section 41A(2) in clause 9D in Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton? Has that been withdrawn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00226d3e4260e36c4c529f4abd1dc43038ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d3e4260e36c4c529f4abd1dc43038ff\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Associate Minister of Local Government): \u003C/span\u003EI wish to inform the Committee that I will not proceed with the amendment to clause 9D in Supplementary Order Paper 43.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022952635714ecc45659aa7ca14c8edb700\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022952635714ecc45659aa7ca14c8edb700\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E We are debating Part 1, and in particular microchipping. Microchipping is not the only measure in this part\u2014it includes some good things\u2014but it is primarily about microchipping. The point is that in a debate in the House the proposer\u2014in this case the Government plus its supporters: New Zealand First, United Future in this case, and Jim Anderton\u2019s Progressive party, or whatever it is called\u2014should be able to put up good cogent arguments to persuade Opposition members that our point of view is wrong. I have to say that in the 2 hours or so we have been debating this bill I have not heard one argument of substance that would convince me or any of the listeners who are against microchipping that we are wrong and the Government is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe Minister took a call some time last night and said that one of the main reasons why we want to microchip dogs is so that when a dog is found worrying stock, and the farmer shoots the dog, we will be able to identify the owner of the dog as a consequence of its being microchipped. That is true; I have no argument with that. If we assume that the dog has been microchipped\u2014because if there is a dog attack on stock it is likely that a good number of the dogs that attack stock will not necessarily be microchipped anyway, as they are likely to be pig dogs or some other sort of dog owned by people who would not necessarily register or microchip their dogs\u2014and if the farmer shoots the dog, we can identify the owner. The question I have is that if the same dog is registered with a tag on it, why can we not identify the owner? When a dog is dead, what makes microchipping better able to identify it than if it has a collar? The Minister will say it is because the dog is microchipped and it does not have a collar. Well, of course, if we microchip dogs we are not going ask that they have a collar also, but one assumes that if a person is responsible enough to put a microchip in a dog, he or she will be responsible enough to put a collar and tag on the dog, as is required now. So that puts away that argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI have been listening now for the best part of 2 hours, expecting to hear better arguments. The only argument I have heard is that microchipping means we can identify the owners of dogs that are shot if they worry and kill stock. Well, if that is the only reason then we really have to ask ourselves what we are doing debating this. The Minister of Local Government, the Hon Mark Burton, said in his second reading speech that microchipping will not stop one dog attack. Indeed, New Zealand First members have said exactly the same thing. Gordon Copeland of United Future has also said exactly the same thing\u2014that microchipping, in itself, will not stop one dog attack. Therefore, the only reason to have microchipping is not to stop dog attacks, because we have all agreed\u2014everyone so far: the Minister on behalf of Labour, New Zealand First, United Future\u2014that microchipping will not stop dog attacks. We are all agreed on that; the whole Parliament agrees on that. Therefore, the next thing is it must be all about identifying dogs. Well, if it is about identifying dogs then one asks oneself the question, what is wrong with a dog collar and a tag? Will we get more people microchipping their dogs, and will we be able to read the microchip and identify the dog more easily than if it has a collar and tag? Actually, the answer to that question is that all the evidence everywhere says no, it will not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIf the Minister had been able to stand up and give us proof that by microchipping dogs we can identify the dog and the owner more easily, and if microchipping had been more practical and sensible, and more people were encouraged by it, then the National Party members might have been persuaded by that argument. But, actually, that has not happened. In fact, we know that the only way one can read a microchip on a long-haired dog is by grabbing it, sticking it between one\u2019s legs, and waving the wand over it. I have to tell members that I do not want to know the owner of a dog that badly\u2014I seriously do not. There are parts of my anatomy that I would not want to put a dog\u2019s head near, thank you very much. So I will not be waving any sort of wand\u2014mine or anyone else\u2019s, quite honestly\u2014over a dog to identify its microchip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u002247a07783cb0d4cd6990797cebaf2ca6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247a07783cb0d4cd6990797cebaf2ca6d\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to make this a kind of omnibus speech, in the sense that I want to wrap up a few points that have not really been mentioned too much in this debate, yet. The first is to speak directly to my own Supplementary Order Paper and to make the point that my Supplementary Order Paper\u2014as I hope everyone in the Committee is now aware\u2014brings in a voluntary microchipping regime for working farm dogs. A working farm dog is a dog that is a working dog that is \u201Ckept solely or principally for the purposes of herding or driving stock;\u201D. That is a definition that is already in the Dog Control Act, which we are amending tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe other thing to mention is that it also provides that any working farm dog that has been classified as menacing, dangerous, or impounded will automatically be microchipped. So that is not voluntary. That second part of my Supplementary Order Paper has been lifted directly out of Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2019 member\u2019s bill. It is virtually word for word, because I think she makes a valid point in saying that all of those dogs should be microchipped as quickly as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI still find that members of the public do not realise that 10 days from now the only thing we will be microchipping will be new puppies. Some people seem to think that on 1 July all the dogs in New Zealand are suddenly going to be microchipped. No, that is not the case. As somebody pointed out to me today, what has actually happened in New South Wales, for example, is that the breeder of puppies normally puts microchips in and then sells them on to people. The dogs are already microchipped for life. We need to dispel some of the myths around that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would like to mention is the Green Party\u2019s position in relation to this bill. The Green Party\u2019s position is that the only dogs they want to see microchipped are those that are classified as being dangerous or menacing. They have endeavoured twice to achieve that goal\u2014once through a member\u2019s bill in the name of Jeanette Fitzsimons, and once by way of a majority report from the select committee. Those initiatives have been voted down by this House not once but twice\u2014by a vote of 61 to 60. Tonight the Greens intend to try again, knowing that they will, for the third time, have that motion rejected by this Committee\u2014again, I imagine, by a margin of 61 to 60. At that point they intend to accept the policy of Labour that all dogs be microchipped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfdaedf0f62a473fbffc53a1bfad6405\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: We certainly don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228939ff422f3b4ecbac4f0e6f4ed277d1\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they do. That is going to be the practical consequence of the action the Greens have decided to take. That is the exact opposite of what they say their policy is. They want no dogs microchipped. Believe you me, it will become clear very shortly that we are going to end up in this Parliament with every dog microchipped. Why? It is because the Greens have not figured out that they should actually be voting in favour of the Hon David Carter\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper to exempt working farm dogs from microchipping. That is 250,000 dogs\u201440 percent of all dogs. It therefore gets the Greens and the M\u0101ori Party far, far closer to their own policy goals than having every single dog chipped. Also in the process, both parties seem to have missed the point that this will be an opportunity to actually defeat the Government so that only 60 percent of dogs in this country are microchipped. If I am found to be wrong on that point, then it will become clear very, very shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EGiven that these parties want no microchipping at all, except for dangerous and menacing breeds, how is it, therefore, that they do not support something that will exempt 40 percent, knowing that the alternative is to have all dogs microchipped? How could they do that? This Supplementary Order Paper of David Carter\u2019s will give them 40 percent of what they want\u2014250,000 dogs. Instead, they say that they will reject that Supplementary Order Paper, and with it they will then accept, inevitably, that all dogs will be microchipped. Such a policy has no credibility. It will be a great disappointment to Federated Farmers, and when they experience that disappointment\u2014as I am sure they will, later this evening\u2014they can squarely sheet that home to the shallow posturing of the Greens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI must say I am extremely disappointed personally to say that the M\u0101ori Party also has not figured out that simple point. They will end up with all dogs microchipped later tonight. They still have the opportunity, by voting for David Carter\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, to see 40 percent of all dogs exempted from microchipping. It is close to their goal. Why do they not consider that, and why do they not do it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI want to go to one other point before I finish, which is to try to just clarify things for John Carter. As I mentioned, we start microchipping puppies on 1 July. It will take 6 or 7 years before the dogs in New Zealand are microchipped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u00222ad5a5d0cd884160b578d6c88d3c5015\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ad5a5d0cd884160b578d6c88d3c5015\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In the late 1970s I used to drive from one side of the city in which I lived to the other, to pick up my mother\u2019s pedigree corgi and take it to the dog-dosing strip in London Street Wanganui to be dosed for hydatids. Lisa, our corgi, never went anywhere other than around the street for a walk or to the local park. She had no more chance of coming into contact with hydatids than she did of flying to the moon under her own power. I do not remember one single person from the rural community in New Zealand in the 1970s saying: \u201CI don\u2019t think city dogs should have to be treated for hydatids, because city dogs are not likely to catch it.\u201D Is it not strange that it was a case of one law for all dogs when it related to hydatids in the 1970s and 1980s, but now, several decades down the track, it is different? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003EI would like to know how those members opposite, who have suddenly gone jelly-legged in respect of this legislation, would cope in a real crisis. How would they cope if they were part of a governing party that had to make a decision in the interests of all New Zealanders, particularly an issue that related to international matters? I would say National members\u2019 jelly-legged behaviour in respect of this bill is indicative of the fact that they are not fit to govern. If those members cannot be sensible on a matter relating to the microchipping of dogs, it proves they are not capable of governing and should never get anywhere near the seat of Government again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E Part of this angst and mock protesting is all about National members assuaging their guilt for voting for the 2003 bill in its third reading. Those of us who have been in Parliament for more than a couple of years know that the third reading debate is a party\u2019s last chance to object to a bill. What did National members do? They all stuck their hands up and voted for it. But then, when the pressure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3dc35f4dade477c818ed1f31aa7d9aa\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283030dd98ffe4974b2f5ecfc1392df3c\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they did. The only people who did not vote for it were ACT members, and at least ACT has stuck to its guns. But you Tories all voted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c9c2eb756f412cb6c78e1f9cd4cdba\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225b137a40d4e48c3a371a29a0c360b75\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: Now those members have got all jelly-legged when the pressure is on, which shows they could not cope in a real emergency. Labour will not support Eric Roy\u2019s amendment, which proposes that only dogs that bite should be destroyed. But what about the question of whether it is a big bite or a little bite? What if the dog is auntie\u2019s little nipper that is a chihuahua, a corgi\u2014those dogs can bite quite seriously\u2014or a Pomeranian? People could say: \u201CAuntie\u2019s Pomeranian didn\u2019t really break much more than a first layer of skin.\u201D, or: \u201CIt\u2019s not a menacing or dangerous dog. Don\u2019t destroy the chihuahua or Pomeranian\u2014just those ugly big dogs.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003ESo the grandstanding of the amendment put forward by the National Party in Eric Roy\u2019s name is just superficial window dressing so that National members look like they are doing something. Those members have left it too late to do anything; they had their opportunity at the third reading debate in 2003\u2014that is when they could have done something, but they did not. National members did not mind trotting up when the Minister of Local Government at the time, the Hon Chris Carter, was responding to the tragedy of the Carolina Anderson incident. Those Tories did not mind trotting up for the photo opportunity to say to the public: \u201CLook what we\u2019re doing. This is terrible. We\u2019ll do whatever we can.\u201D This Government did want to do whatever it could, which is why it has introduced a package of measures. We have never said that microchipping alone will stop dogs from biting\u2014nobody has said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282bd6b78e25448e2af798cfa4bc129ae\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Helen Clark did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9e160fa5b54c7ab7894ac319c6712d\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: David Carter is on record in Hansard as saying he supported microchipping as part of the package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7229ffa9e2d47a3bf5a3d78d8647e97\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8773b4c2c5b4d0ba4ae07a8a27fd061\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: I will come over and show the member the exact dates on which he said that. I cannot find the exact quote in my pages, but he is on record as saying that. The statement is a direct quote from Hansard to the effect that when microchipping became available he would vote for it. They microchip other animals\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b96bd4fe72d431a8f2103244a0b46c2\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: He said \u201CRubbish!\u201D, but he is still checking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224852950512e747b48755b50587cf76c9\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because David Carter knows only too well that he did say that, and Hansard will prove it. This is flim-flam window dressing from National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8558fe53f2243e0acdd2698cc9d7f54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8558fe53f2243e0acdd2698cc9d7f54\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E We are talking about the Local Government Law Reform Bill, and in doing so it is very important to remember that when we talk about microchipping dogs, it is a question of safety. That point often gets overlooked when we start to debate this topic. Last night, all we heard was a muddying of the waters. As my learned friend John Carter mentioned, we did not hear any compelling evidence to suggest that dog microchipping should be carried out. Will the public feel any safer if it knows that a dog is microchipped? I think not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIn referring to the question about the third reading of the last bill on this matter, I find it interesting to note that many recognised and credible bodies have reviewed their situation and changed their view. I would like to draw the attention of the list member from Wanganui, Jill Pettis, to the comments of the New Zealand Kennel Club, which said: \u201CScrapping compulsory microchipping is excellent news.\u201D It said microchipping is a nonsense, and asked why, when councils have not been doing a number of things, they should do that now. The club\u2019s president, Lesley Chalmers, said the best solution was to license the owners, not the dogs, and added: \u201CWe do not agree with the microchipping of dogs.\u201D It is a moving situation to see that the New Zealand Kennel Club, which originally supported the Government\u2019s move to have all dogs microchipped, came to the view, after reflection and consideration led to clarity, that microchipping was not necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWe have to ask ourselves why the Government is so desperately holding on to this situation. In the light of everything, all I can come up with is that the Government feels threatened that this situation is the nearest possible thing to a vote of no confidence. This is another nail in the coffin of a tired and mean-spirited Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhen we start to look around the landscape of this Parliament, we see a very good approach by those who have taken a position against microchipping. I was very moved to hear the M\u0101ori Party bring history into the House, in respect of the issues around dog control in the 1890s. I can fully understand how the Greens feel aggrieved. It was quite moving to get a phone call from Stefan Browning, a Green member from Marlborough, who wanted to check my position and make sure we were on the same wavelength. I was able to tell him that indeed we were on the same wavelength on that issue\u2014maybe not on one or two others. National has been as solid as a rock on this matter throughout this period in the House. It is opposed to the microchipping of farm dogs and, for that matter, of all dogs. It is only this tired, mean-spirited Government that is acting like a dog with a bone, and that is the most dangerous sort of dog to deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ELet us look at the Government side of the House and see what is happening to Labour\u2019s circus of dog obedience. New Zealand First is on the Government\u2019s choke chain. United Future has been running with the hares and hunting with the hounds. Of course, in the Progressive party there is Jim Anderton, who is a wolf in sheep\u2019s clothing. Labour, the microchip master, is the dog in the manger. I will go back to show members some of the behaviour we have had during this period. Gordon Copeland talked earlier about principles and morals, and where he stood in trying to shift the blame on to the Greens. I quote a media report: \u201CThey say that every dog has his day. But for United Future MP Gordon Copeland, his tough talk over microchipping lasts only a few hours. In the morning Copeland claims to have the Government in a corner, saying that they will have to back his claims to exempt farm dogs or face total defeat. By the afternoon he rolls over and plays dead.\u201D What a shameful situation that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022 data-id=\u0022e470bc784e6a4e03a68a8f5d7f3a6975\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e470bc784e6a4e03a68a8f5d7f3a6975\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a copy of John Carter\u2019s Hansard of 27 March 1996 for his speech on the Dog Control Bill. Can I also table, with the Committee\u2019s permission, the comment made by David Carter last night\u2014this is not from Hansard; he said this on the radio\u2014that it would be too hard to roll back this bill once it was passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u0022005067097734463ab9f6b82b8b82113b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022005067097734463ab9f6b82b8b82113b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: You have identified it well enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022af1d83dd5787403f94b202af3c2da670\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af1d83dd5787403f94b202af3c2da670\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to bring a view from the Wairarapa electorate. My electorate covers five councils, and all of the mayors from those five councils\u2014Central Hawke\u2019s Bay, Tararua, Masterton, Carterton, and south Wairarapa\u2014came to Parliament to meet the Associate Minister of Local Government, Nanaia Mahuta, and give her a message. The message they gave her was that this proposal of hers was a nonsense, they do not support it, their communities do not support it, and if it is passed, those councils will put it at the bottom of their list of priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI have come to this Committee today to talk some sense on behalf of the people of New Zealand. I want to tell this Committee the truth\u2014that this legislation to microchip dogs is a nonsense. I have been getting calls to my office all day, the last one as recently as 20 minutes ago, from people telling me to put an end to this nonsense. Well, let me tell this Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022518955d5675f4c2189d277bd24f3b806\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: So why did you vote for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289eb0ae1a77e4b2e8cd70b6a7170647d\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and my learned friend from Wanganui, who is on her last jelly legs\u2014that this legislation will not stop any dog from biting any child or any adult. But there is a cost in relation to this legislation. Roger Barton from my electorate, a farmer from Woodside, says it will cost a minimum of $100 a dog and a total of at least $8 million a year. I am really concerned about this. What I have seen happen in this Chamber\u2014and I have seen it very clearly this afternoon\u2014is people like Winnie Laban, our colleague from Mana, telling us that we are making investments in communities. She has forgotten the word \u201Csubsidy\u201D and the word \u201Cbenefit\u201D. This Government is trying to work out the long-run, perpetual Labour administration, and it is copying the Swedish model. which is that a Government should tax like hell, then give it back to the middle class, which will vote for it. This Government is doing that; the same amount of money will be recycled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe second thing the Government is doing through these silly damn policies is putting costs on an increasingly aged community. More people are moving on to fixed incomes, and they cannot afford these policies. A couple of weeks ago I was in Dannevirke at a Grey Power meeting, in a room where there were 5,000 years of accumulated wisdom. These people, who are on fixed incomes, are saying to me that they have to pay more for freight, more for fuel, and more for electricity, and they have to pay a 10 percent rate increase because the stupid Government in Wellington is doubling the cost of their town debt by a water policy they do not need and a dog microchipping policy they do not need. This Government is taking ideas and forcing them down the throats of the community, which cannot afford them. We are an ageing community. More people are on fixed incomes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202261fe2963642c7a3f90928a228da00\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Show me a poor farmer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5f90b5547f64b1693d8310a718b3836\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: I am talking about people in my community of all ages, who are ageing and who are on fixed incomes. They cannot afford the constant load of costs from a Labour Government that is trying to bribe people by giving benefits to people who do not need them. It is trying to destroy initiative and enthusiasm. When it cannot find enough people here in New Zealand to give money to with its silly policies, it adopts stupid policies in the Pacific. Two weeks ago, the learned Minister of Foreign Affairs gave US$179,000 to the people of Niue, and they did not need it, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWe have a serious problem in this country. Whether it is water charges, dog microchipping, or wasted aid, we are promulgating legislation here that has no value but imposes increasing costs on communities that cannot afford them. This Government is killing productive enterprise. What is the result? People are leaving for Australia, because they are sick and tired of the nonsense being imposed on them by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe five mayors of my electorate have come here to see the M\u0101ori Party, the Green Party, the ACT party, and the Associate Minister. I ask Nanaia Mahuta, who is in the chair, whether that is right. They gave the Associate Minister the message that they would put this legislation at the bottom of their list of priorities. In my electorate, 2,883 people signed a petition asking that this House get rid of this legislation, because it is a nonsense. They want us to chuck it out. They want to see common sense. I ask the Associate Minister to get rid of this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3cdcfc82f9148ed9d0abfb04fbd3d12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3cdcfc82f9148ed9d0abfb04fbd3d12\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I came down to the Chamber last night and made a speech that appears to have been lost on most people, because what I have been hearing is so ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will start by reading from someone else\u2019s speech: \u201CSooner or later, given the new technology that is upon us, we will have microchips introduced for all dogs in New Zealand. Many local authorities in New Zealand are already starting to introduce microchips as a means of identification of dogs. It is a sensible way of identification. It is a way in which it can be done cheaply. When a microchip is put into a dog, it is there for life. It would cost less than $10 per dog for the life of the dog. It is a ready means of identification.\u201D The speech goes on to say: \u201CI think an important thing for us in the future, as the microchip is developed and as local authorities have better means of identifying the dog through the mode of microchips, is that Parliament passes legislation that allows for dogs throughout the country to have microchips implanted. When that happens we will have a proper means of identifying dogs.\u201D The person who made that speech was the honourable John Carter, in 1996. I noticed that David Carter, when we thought the speech was made by him, hurriedly went through his notes to see whether he had made that statement\u2014which just goes to show the absurdity of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EIn the 1990s National MPs thought microchipping was a good idea, and they were right. It is a sensible means of identification, it is a low-cost solution, and the rest of the world is rapidly heading in that direction. But, of course, now that those members have seen there might be a few votes to be won in opposing microchipping, they have given up on common sense entirely and have gone in exactly the opposite direction. We are used to National Party flip-flops in this Chamber, but this goes beyond the pale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ELast night I referred to the experience in New South Wales, and I once again say to members who oppose this bill for the reasons they have given that they should google the information on the Companion Animals Act of New South Wales. They will find some very useful information on that Act, because it is pretty much the same package that has been introduced in New Zealand. The difference here is that the Government will provide far more financial support for developing the national dog database. Also, we are not requiring dogs that are currently registered to be microchipped. In New South Wales people were given 3 years to have all dogs microchipped. In that state in 1997 there were 521 dog attacks. In 2001 that figure dropped to 150.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI shall refer to the report on the Companion Animals Act, which was delivered to the Australian Institute of Local Government Rangers 4 years after the Act was passed. It states that in the early days the critics were very vocal, the owners would not microchip their dogs, the microchip was not good enough, there were no good microchip readers, it would not work, and the whole system was flawed. Those are the same things we are hearing at the moment. But now New South Wales is recognised as having the most effective dangerous dog provisions of any state in Australia, if not the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe reason the system has worked so well is not that farm dogs, which comprise less than 5 percent of the total dog population, are exempt\u2014they still have problems with farm dogs that attack stock, and the rural-urban divide in Australia is a lot easier than it is here\u2014[Interruption] Members might want to listen, because they might learn something. They do not like the facts. No longer can the behaviour of dogs\u2014dogs that are being shifted around territorial regional authorities, that are having their collars taken off, and that are being given to other people and registered under different names\u2014be hidden from a new local authority. When a dog is brought in for menacing behaviour, the microchip is zapped, and it can be seen whether in a neighbouring territorial authority that dog had done exactly the same thing five times before. Local authorities now have the power to put that dog down before it goes on to commit a serious attack, maybe on a child, on another animal, or on stock\u2014we do not know. What has happened is that the number of dog attacks has plummeted, because more dangerous dogs are being destroyed before they get to the point of committing a serious attack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAt the moment, when a dog goes into a new territorial local authority, it is a completely new entity. That authority has no idea where that dog has come from or what it has done in its previous life, because the registration system does not allow us to know that. But by microchipping the dog and bringing the system into the 21st century, we will be able to track those dogs and destroy them earlier. It is quite simple really. The microchip can be inserted when the dog is 6 weeks old and has to have its vaccinations, or at 12 weeks when it has its second dose of vaccinations. It would be interesting to know whether members think dogs should not have vaccinations, or that those vaccinations should not be carried out by a vet. But it will be a one-off visit to the vet, which can be done at the same time as the dog\u2019s vaccination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EIt is also interesting to note that in New South Wales there have been no instances whatsoever of a dog reacting adversely to a microchip, of a microchip moving in a dog, or of a microchip causing any kind of medical problem in a dog.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u00226d8de00684f54021976a6b10b2338aa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d8de00684f54021976a6b10b2338aa5\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, thank you very much for allowing me, after 3 hours, to take a call. I would like to answer the question of my learned colleague Mr John Carter, which is a great question. He asked what we were doing debating this issue. I can quote from a newspaper the words of a Labour MP, Mr Michael Bassett, who stated: \u201CMicrochipping dogs is a political distraction to disguise the paralysis that afflicts this Government, preventing it from doing anything worthwhile.\u201D That is what this is all about; it is about disguising the paralysis that afflicts this Government, preventing it from doing anything worthwhile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EI will rebut some of the arguments. The former Minister of Agriculture, Mr Sutton, said last night\u2014and it has been suggested again today\u2014that it is easier to identify a dog through a microchip than a registration tag and collar. That is rather interesting, because a scanner is needed to identify a dog by a microchip, and scanners actually have different specifications, depending on whether they are English or American\u2014and no doubt in New Zealand we will have a third one, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EI have a further quote in relation to that, from a member of the Canterbury Labrador Retriever Club, which shows the absolutely ludicrous and ridiculous nature of having those microchips. The person said: \u201CAn interesting scenario happened to me earlier this year. I imported a dog from England. MAF regulations required him to be microchipped. This microchip had to be checked each time he had the various tests required to comply with entrance regulations to New Zealand. The microchip cost approximately $200. When the dog arrived in New Zealand, MAF did not have a scanner available to even check if it were the dog that had had all the checks.\u201D The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry did not even have a scanner, so she was able to walk out of the terminal, dog in hand, with a microchip not scanned. Yet Labour members are saying that it is easier to identify a dog through a microchip than a registration tag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe other issue I have relates to the fact that when we see a dog on the street without a collar, we think, yes, that dog is probably not registered. If we see it with its collar and little tag, we know it is registered. We do not all have scanners to see whether a dog is microchipped. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe other falsity was to say that the microchip stays for life. Mr Sutton said that the microchip is a lifelong means of identifying the dog and, as was said before, a microchip involves only a one-off visit to the vet. We know about Hank; Hank is a good friend of my other colleague Mr Eric Roy. Members know about Hank, who is a 70 kilogram Rottweiler. He is 8-years-old, valuable, and had a microchip inserted by a vet, at 10 months of age. But the vet was unable to locate the microchip or get any reading on what Hank\u2019s inserted microchip was supposed to be communicating. The vet responded by saying that microchips should be checked every year, to ensure that they have not moved and that they are still functioning. That is not a one-off cost. That cost is a ridiculous tax, a ridiculous compliance cost. It is not common sense\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ffb88ccfe824791be15e708355599b0\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Dog-tax law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7973b09a7ae4265af5b654ee3b1a0b2\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a dog-tax law. Then this morning on TV we heard that Mr Copeland\u2014who holds the balance of power in this debate\u2014takes his canine advice from his mother, with the inference that all fox terriers are killers. So there we are\u2014someone holding the balance of power in this Parliament is taking his canine advice from his mother, who I am sure is lovely, but he should listen to his own judgment, his own common sense, rather than any poodle politics. He also seemed to suggest that in 7 years all dogs in New Zealand would be microchipped. But some dogs last 14 years or even longer than that and, as my colleague Mr Roy has pointed out, it may be 2025 before all dogs in New Zealand are microchipped. Where is the sense in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ETreasury says that this legislation is stupid. Local authorities think it is stupid, and farmers think it is stupid. I have a petition with over 10,000 signatures of people who think it is stupid. There is a petition from Federated Farmers that says it is stupid, so why is it that the only people who do not think this legislation is stupid are on the other side of the Chamber?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6bcf7ea50c241729f37892e97e39b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6bcf7ea50c241729f37892e97e39b1c\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I was not going to take a call in this discussion, because a lot of it really is just flimflam, and I believe that Doug Woolerton, our spokesperson on this issue, has very eloquently put New Zealand First\u2019s position. That position, of course, is to be resolute and stick with the way we have voted in the past in terms of the package\u2014the catalyst, first and foremost, being Carolina Anderson and this Parliament getting together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EIn reaction to some of the jibes that came across\u2014I think Colin King talked about New Zealand First having a choker chain on it\u2014I want people to reflect on what the Minister told us earlier about what has happened with clause 9D, and the subsequent Supplementary Order Paper. The original provision would have required dog owners to inform local authorities, within 28 days, when their dogs died and if they did not there would be a $100 fine. I am not too certain about all the things that went on behind the scenes, but the Minister certainly referred to the persuasive arguments of Doug Woolerton in the Chamber yesterday about why that was quite stupid legislation. What I do know is that New Zealand First made a decision yesterday. We looked at that particular provision for the first time yesterday, and made a decision then that we would not be supporting it. Discussions were held, and in fact the Government has agreed\u2014I do not know whether it was already planning this\u2014to have the provision pulled out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EI want to contrast the behaviour of New Zealand First in actually achieving things. There is no choker chain on here; those are baubles we quite accept. A stupid law may have gone through if it had not been for the timely intervention of New Zealand First. I also ask just how effective all that noise coming from the other side of the Chamber will be in making any changes whatsoever. So I will finish with one question: can New Zealand First fix it? The answer is that, once again, we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022670e50097be946ff8b6073c5766d82ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022670e50097be946ff8b6073c5766d82ab\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f337622e4086480e85589d4de7643c7f\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here she is\u2014\u201CSergeant Dan\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227267e17a0a3d4a538b92339319d7dd7f\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Jill Pettis that she can make fun of the army, but who will defend her in times of misfortune? I am very proud of what I have done, thank you very much! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI rise to speak about this ridiculous legislation on the microchipping of dogs. This Government seems to think it is providing a sense of security for New Zealanders. Well, there is nothing in this sense of security, except falseness. Unfortunately, this legislation will not make any change to what happens at the moment. As a result of a very tragic and unfortunate accident\u2014one involving Carolina Anderson\u2014this Government, in a knee-jerk reaction, has provided this Parliament and the country with legislation whereby absolutely no children, nobody, will be prevented from again being the result of that sort of accident. It is very disappointing that both New Zealand First and United Future are joining the Government in this legislation. It is very disappointing indeed that United Future has flip-flopped so much in this whole debate. I call on United Future, and on Mr Copeland who is sitting here with us today, to forget about their \u201Cno surprises\u201D deal with the Government. Instead, Mr Copeland should engender his common sense\u2014forget \u201Cno surprises\u201D but call on his common sense\u2014because this Government needs a surprise. It needs a wake-up call and a reality check. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAs members of the National Party said in this debate all last night, and have been saying all today, nobody wants this legislation. It is absolutely silly legislation. Local authorities do not want it. I received an email 20 minutes ago from somebody who works for a council to ask me to go to the debating chamber to vote against this legislation. I could assure the person that that is exactly what I would be doing. ACT has always opposed this legislation. We have never been in favour of the microchipping of dogs. This is a desperate attempt by a very, very desperate Government that wants to be seen to be doing something. The sad reality is that this bill will do absolutely nothing. It is a desperate attempt by a desperate Government to do something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI have heard also that the SPCA is reporting that dogs are being abandoned, while this debate goes on amongst the general public. Many people do not realise that it is new dogs that will have to be microchipped. But no matter what has to be microchipped, dogs are already being abandoned as a result of the thought that this legislation is about to be put in place. It is also very sad that every time there is an unfortunate accident, such as occurred to Carolina Anderson, there is a knee-jerk reaction by this Government, which puts in place more and more unnecessary legislation in order to deal with problems that exist in only a very few cases. Suddenly everybody\u2014in this case all dogs, but in other cases all New Zealanders\u2014bears the brunt of a few unfortunate episodes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson should be congratulated on reading out the comments made by Michael Bassett. The comments were absolutely right. I cannot quite remember them exactly, but the paralysis of this Government is very evident. This desperate measure by the Government is a result of that paralysis. The Government has run out of ideas\u2014I am not sure it actually had any to start with, but there are even fewer now, almost 6 or 7 years down the track, and there will be no more. We need to see less, not more, of this sort of knee-jerk legislation being put in place. ACT will support all the amendments from members on this side of the Chamber. We want no microchipping at all, but the amendments from members on this side of the Chamber make good sense because they move in the right direction. We will oppose the amendments of Mark Burton. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI call again on United Future members to put on their common-sense hats for once, abandon that no-surprises deal they have with the Government, and do the right thing for New Zealand dogs and New Zealanders. They should do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. New Zealand deserves nothing less than that. This bill will bring no safety for New Zealand children, as poor little Carolina Anderson can probably attest to. Microchipping will bring no resolution to the problem she faced. It is a problem that is really very small. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2bccf5e5d804655afb40f323e2e2574\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2bccf5e5d804655afb40f323e2e2574\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Having been in the Chamber throughout this debate, I say that what staggers me are the contributions we have heard from the Government side and the realisation of how out of touch United Future, New Zealand First, and Labour Party politicians are with the depth of feeling around this issue. New Zealanders are totally opposed to microchipping, because although the impetus for this legislation was around a horrific dog attack, all sensible New Zealanders know that a microchip in the neck of a dog will not stop a single dog attack. New Zealanders know that, and that is why this has become such an important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EEqually frustrating is the amount of misinformation that has been presented to this Committee by Labour members over the last few hours of this debate. Let us take the contribution from Moana Mackey. She kept talking about how successful the New South Wales microchipping regime has been. Yet she knows full well that in New South Wales farm dogs are exempt. That farm dogs should be exempted is one of the amendments the National Party has put forward in the Committee today, and that we will certainly be voting for, obviously. Moana Mackey, who used to be a rural electorate member of this Parliament, should remember that farmers are under tremendous pressure. Incomes have come off and expenses continue to increase\u2014many of them imposed by the Labour Government. But here we have an expected $3 million annual cost being foisted on the farmers of New Zealand for absolutely no purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe other misinformation was from the Minister in the chair herself, from Nanaia Mahuta, who said during the debate that the cost of microchipping would be somewhere around $35 to $70. Well, I went back through Hansard to when Chris Carter, the then Minister in charge of microchipping, slammed this amendment into the House. He said that the cost would be from $12 to $20. In actual fact, neither Minister is right. Many of the vets I have spoken to are talking about a cost of up to $100. Moana Mackey may say that is insignificant, and Ron Mark certainly said it was insignificant, but for the farmers of New Zealand\u2014young guys with mustering teams of 10-plus dogs\u2014$1,000 is a lot of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThen we had the contribution from one Steve Chadwick, who is the member of Parliament for Rotorua. She said that councils around New Zealand want this legislation. How, then, can she explain to me the letter I received this week from the Tasman District Council? It states that the council moved a resolution expressing its opposition to the microchipping of rural and urban dogs first registered after 1 July 2006. Councils do not support this legislation, and they will not enforce it. That is why New Zealanders are totally upset about this legislation. New Zealanders know that the legislation is dopey and that it is unenforceable, so why do New Zealand First, the poodle party United Future, and the Government attempt to continue with it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI will speak to my two amendments. My first amendment, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 41, seeks to achieve what the farmers of New Zealand want, and it is totally sensible. It means that no farm working dog would have to be mindlessly microchipped just to satisfy the wishes of Helen Clark. I have another amendment, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 40, that moves to exempt all dogs from microchipping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI congratulate the work done by the Green Party. I have enjoyed dealing with the Greens. They have been absolutely consistent. They have moved an even better amendment that exempts all dogs with the exception of menacing and dangerous dogs. I congratulate the Greens on the position they have come to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EToday we have, clearly, a very close vote in the Committee. It would be interesting to ask why Jim Anderton has not even bothered to take a call. The Minister of Agriculture went around the country saying: \u201CWhat Jim says, Jim does.\u201D Well, here is his chance today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u002286ee106867054cbdb34f431cf07a0945\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286ee106867054cbdb34f431cf07a0945\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I note that the Minister Nanaia Mahuta is sitting in the chair. I remind that Minister of some history. One hundred years ago in the far north\u2014the home of New Zealand First\u2014there was an incident in our history that became known as the dog tax war. The New Zealand First members may scoff, but I ask what that was about. It was about M\u0101ori New Zealanders saying they did not want the Government bureaucracy to impose taxes and controls on their people. Is it not an irony that the member for Te Tai Hauauru is basically saying today that she wants to have taxes on dogs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e90d4baced468398d028ca3772f4ae\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The Minister in the chair is not the member for Te Tai Hauauru; she is the member for the Tainui electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bb6cafb044344658ebcf4c1029d21f1\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member for making that mistake. I find it ironic that this Government would make the same error, yet again, of imposing taxes on the people of New Zealand. It is true that the cost will be $100 on average per dog, and obviously more for some owners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWho will bear that cost? Owners will. Have we not been hearing week after week in recent times that local government is complaining about the costs that this Government is loading on to New Zealanders? Rates are going up by 7.5 percent this year. What is this Government\u2019s response to that? Does the Government seek to reduce costs for local government? No, it does not. It wants to load yet more and more costs on to the people of New Zealand and on to local government. That is exactly what one would expect from a party that can think only about loading more taxes on to people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222728e56e39e745e8ad93cd82ddd4a812\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Forcing people to pay!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c3ef1fe2ccb4b74bd81aa8dfca3cf3d\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Forcing people to pay for things. It is a feature of this Government that it will always go for bureaucratic control. I tell this Committee that the most consistent theme about political correctness is bureaucratic excess. One can always identify the politically correct by how much bureaucracy they want to load on to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThis legislation is a classic case of political correctness. I have received numerous emails and letters that pursue precisely that point. People ask, in a fundamentally common-sense way, why someone would want to microchip a dog and impose the excessive cost of that on them. They ask which bureaucratic mind could have come up with such an absurd proposition. Well, I will tell them. The Labour Party, because Labour and bureaucracy go together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f977f6fc9a74933a18f56b157bbd67d\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: And the poodles!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260005224fc7e40948d1e70a6ab8d1dc1\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: And the poodles. And is that not remarkable? We have heard the support party, New Zealand First, which generally tends to support the Government, say it has had a victory. I tell that member and that party that if they had had a victory, they would be voting against this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI want to say this. The way to defeat political correctness is to vote against bureaucracy, and the way to defeat this legislation is for the parties to vote for the amendments, because frankly they are common sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00222f42b42ff52a4b9fb73ba05eb186c6aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f42b42ff52a4b9fb73ba05eb186c6aa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I spoke with the office yesterday and asked for advice as to how the amendments would be moved. The advice that was given to me was that it would be helpful to facilitate the votes if I seek leave for the amendments on Supplementary Order Paper 41 to be taken as one question, and I so do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225319e64492244d8bab7ee47457dae5cb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: That would be most helpful. Leave has been sought for that course to be followed. Is there any objection? Leave is denied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Sandra Goudie to clause 4 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003Eto insert in the definition of disability assist dog in section 2 in subclause (1), after the words \u201Ca person with a disability\u201D, the words \u201Cto be exempted from microchipping\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227d216662618f4db2aedb85196ee2f4db\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000499\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Eric Roy to clause 8A be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000500\u0022\u003Eto add to subsection (3) of section 33A the following new paragraph: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000501\u0022\u003E(e)\tAny dog savaging a child under 13 years must be put down.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022525d0aeaf49f4328b749e7c55d10a387\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000502\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 41 in the name of the Hon David Carter to clause 9A, to insert new subclause (1A), be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221fcf511bc23048e5a2c59e29559040db\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 4 (Bradford, Kedgley, Locke, Tanczos); M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 2 (Fitzsimons, Turei); Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4f15a4118d343dd89aa5bcb5542a7c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4f15a4118d343dd89aa5bcb5542a7c7\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I noticed during that vote that the Green Party gave a split vote. I just wanted to get an assurance that, in accordance with the Standing Orders, they will give the names of the people voting for and the names of people voting against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e293d8f27c427ab29eb750c2a35039\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is the Standing Order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 41 in the name of the Hon David Carter to clause 9A, to add new subclause (3), be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223adb9aa637964bd481cad14df09dcbb5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 4 (Bradford, Kedgley, Locke, Tanczos); M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 2 (Fitzsimons, Turei); Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000506\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 41 in the name of the Hon David Carter to insert new clauses 9B and 9BA be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226434444ce3ff41ed8cc9e655d3a0f706\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 4 (Bradford, Kedgley, Locke, Tanczos); M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 2 (Fitzsimons, Turei); Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000507\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Metiria Turei be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000508\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000509\u0022\u003E9B\tMicrochip transponder must be implanted in certain dogs\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000510\u0022\u003E\tSection 36A(1)(c) is repealed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cc2c4b07537849e190d08de926a01e33\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000511\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Metiria Turei be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000512\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000513\u0022\u003E9B\tMicrochip transponder must be implanted in certain dogs\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000514\u0022\u003E\tSection 36A(1)(c) is amended by omitting the expression \u201C2006\u201D, and substituting the expression \u201C2007\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228bd708030e92477490531268c99d9689\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000515\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Metiria Turei be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000516\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000517\u0022\u003E9B\tMicrochip transponder must be implanted in certain dogs\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000518\u0022\u003E\tSection 36A(2) is amended by adding \u201Cunless the owner advises the territorial authority, in writing, that the dog provides social, practical or economic services or support to the owner, including but not limited to the purpose of herding or driving stock\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225ab8ac24768640da8b7e4f60505a7b3e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000519\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of Metiria Turei to the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to insert new clause 9B be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000520\u0022\u003Eto omit subclause (1), and to omit from subclause (2) the expression \u201C(7)\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c3eec3b624cf45e3a091cb89f0670ade\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000521\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of Hon Mark Burton to insert new clause 9B be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00222c2c5cb66b7441ab82011079a9ecd3fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c2c5cb66b7441ab82011079a9ecd3fb\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We have just voted for a Green amendment to Supplementary Order Paper 43. Are we now voting on a new clause in Supplementary Order Paper 43 or on an amended clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c03379e450514d9c963326f2590c975f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The previous amendment was not successful and we are now voting on the amendment as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00228e10aca6b911488ab443d3592a0a07d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e10aca6b911488ab443d3592a0a07d0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We simply need clarification. With the Committee voting earlier to exempt farm dogs from the necessity to microchip, can we please have an explanation as to what this amendment\u2014the Supplementary Order Paper from the Minister\u2014attempts to do. We do not want to end up with a bigger mess than what the Government gave us to start with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed7098cf0a194cf9b30ff086250f58a5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: This amendment amends section 36A. The reason it is in here is that there are quite a number of amendments to clause 9B, and the Minister\u2019s one comes first. Is that clear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc71347074404644a902c525008f8dc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc71347074404644a902c525008f8dc4\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The issue is that I am still not clear\u2014and I do not know whether anyone else in the Chamber is, judging by the looks of the Minister and the discussions that are going on\u2014exactly what the situation is. Given that we have passed legislation to exempt working dogs, we now need to know whether this amendment, in a roundabout way, upsets anything that has been done with regard to that vote. We do not want to suddenly find that we are negating the wish of Parliament with regard to working dogs. We probably need to get advice from the Minister, when he has obtained advice from his officials\u2014because he is as puzzled as we are. It may be useful for the Committee to be patient and wait until we have advice as to exactly what we are doing. That would be a rare thing for this Committee to know, under the present administration, but it will be useful nevertheless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244923313d2e54ffd963e230d27a56b4b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: This amendment does not in any way affect the amendments that were agreed to in the name of the Hon David Carter. It is on a different part from those. I will go back through the amendment. It is the Minister\u2019s amendment to insert new clause 9B, amending subsections (4) and (7) of section 36A, as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f535d4d0266d4338b0627a2b3d1cb94b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u0022755f4ba56ec74b31a97c69f0fc92588e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022755f4ba56ec74b31a97c69f0fc92588e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The next amendment is to insert new clause 9B, which inserts new subsection (5B) in section 36A, as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 39 in the name of Gordon Copeland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u002263bacad63f74452d9170a23cc8df0c4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263bacad63f74452d9170a23cc8df0c4d\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. This is a similar point of order to the last one. As we have already now voted to exempt working farm dogs and my Supplementary Order Paper covers the same ground, pretty much, will we not end up with a confused situation\u2014with two different ways of exempting farm dogs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u0022d22b105160eb4237b49b9c8cfa3baf5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d22b105160eb4237b49b9c8cfa3baf5d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: If the amendment that has been agreed to satisfies the member, then he is free to withdraw his similar amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f821f179255145a08dfa2ed0b9e109ef\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND\u003C/span\u003E: In that case I will withdraw the Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u0022f402552e8be14d89a4737522cb9eb588\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f402552e8be14d89a4737522cb9eb588\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Seek leave, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c20b95821fd44aa9e74405becb4943b\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the Committee to withdraw that Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1678fb07ec34112ba397c1b5081e6d1\u0022\u003EHon CLEM SIMICH\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course to be followed. Is there any objection? There is not. We will move on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Metiria Turei be agreed to:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003Eto insert the following new clause:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E9B\tMicrochip transponder must be implanted in certain dogs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\tSection 36A(6) is amended by omitting the expression \u201Csubsection 2\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228be9969f13324c4aab3119e51923acd0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u00224dbd23514a494d85b357b87f7d701110\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dbd23514a494d85b357b87f7d701110\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The next amendment is to insert new clause 9B, repealing section 36A, and new clause 9BA, as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 40 in the name of the Hon David Carter. It seeks to abolish microchipping requirements for all dogs. This amendment is out of order; it is inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u00222ee475e7815c41bcae1f9634408a4649\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ee475e7815c41bcae1f9634408a4649\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Can you explain how it can be that that is inconsistent with a previous decision, because this amendment looks to be on a slightly different aspect of that same issue. I think David Carter has put a lot of time into this, and the issue of all dogs is quite important to it. I do not think the amendment is inconsistent across the board; it is inconsistent in only one small aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u002256a515a1939a4c77a8cd56c0f632cd14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256a515a1939a4c77a8cd56c0f632cd14\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. The Committee has just agreed to certain amendments, and it would be inconsistent to now deal with an amendment that would repeal what has already been agreed to several minutes ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc577dbae9e64ed4804b9585f2f2ef05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc577dbae9e64ed4804b9585f2f2ef05\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The reason that it is not inconsistent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022 data-id=\u0022513b9cfe4bb947ba9ded1023f91a1d36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022513b9cfe4bb947ba9ded1023f91a1d36\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Are we satisfied that the Hon David Carter has this issue well in hand? Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EWe will move on to an amendment to insert new clause 9B, repealing and substituting section 36A, as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 46 in the name of Metiria Turei. This amendment is out of order because again it is inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EWe come now to clause 9D, and the Hon Mark Burton\u2019s typescript amendment to omit new section 41A(1). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228b2d38b215a14221a599c0c25def9adf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b2d38b215a14221a599c0c25def9adf\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Are we voting on clause 9D, new section 41A, on Supplementary Order Paper 43?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ccdeb4b17d24c9a89f9b82cd0077360\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: We are indeed voting on an amendment to clause 9D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b034470e9a941d7abf9cf2b13ab281f\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the one that the Minister indicated earlier relates to dead dogs, which was to be removed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f998c06c826e44479c01751cc5eb8df7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e79b16cdd6cb486bb35cf3eba923ca1e\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: So which one is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e30e626886e249429eeaa2276c01e3b4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a consequence of the Minister withdrawing an amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cfcb53b3d484f1586153b9280233aa8\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Could you say that again, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267bf32ac13354fa5a0a7a388c2f2c78f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a consequence of the Minister withdrawing an amendment. Is that clear?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c70cf62d0b5a40778bdcdd714cb0dcf8\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairman, it is not clear. Could I ask that an explanation be given as to the implications of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00228c1a0606ded149a2af7509090998948c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c1a0606ded149a2af7509090998948c\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Associate Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier in the debate I sought, by way of point of order, the ability not to move clause 9D, so in seeking that particular agreement, we have to vote that it can be removed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c671cf568834437e9fe4d0845aeccd2b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re voting on whether it can be removed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa4998064e994ba7918900af5351682f\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: This is to vote to remove clause 9D. In clarification, I say to members that I am seeking, through the process of the Committee, to withdraw clause 9D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f40796c62a864010a69fd76e9d8765eb\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Which is what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a683ff323414f5f9f8736b5f02362cc\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Which is what we are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f872706a82a447d940863f2a28111b2\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Just a point of clarification\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3fc065c640d4d8f8f33dfd229062759\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite clear, and I will actually ask the Clerk to explain to you so you will understand, and so I will understand, what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00224bff851406fa4669b54afed4c746647d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bff851406fa4669b54afed4c746647d\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I just want some clarification on clause 9D. The Minister in the chair, Nanaia Mahuta, has moved that she wants to withdraw that, but I originally thought that the part she wants to withdraw was new section 41A(3), inserted by clause 9D, on Supplementary Order Paper 43. That is to do with a fine not exceeding $100 when a dog dies and the council is not notified. The way, I think, you were putting it to us before the dinner break was that all of clause 9D would come out, so I just want some clarification around that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002223718188daf44b0d82f9c0ef0ee45d0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223718188daf44b0d82f9c0ef0ee45d0d\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Perhaps I can be of some assistance. There are several references to dead dogs in the bill. In the bill itself there is a reference in new section 41A(1), which is inserted by clause 9D. I had an amendment to remove that, but my amendment will be overtaken by the Minister\u2019s typewritten amendment. But the Minister also had, on Supplementary Order Paper 43, further references to the requirement to report a dead dog. The Minister then withdrew those sections, which leaves, in clause 9D, the provision that has not been removed. That is what we are voting on. The amendment is essentially the same amendment as the one I had, because I wanted to see that provision removed as well. I hope that is an explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to clause 9D be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003Eto omit subsection (1) from section 41A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf294e64f014faa845b3e526b1b5083\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to a typescript amendment in the name of Eric Roy to omit section 41A(1), inserted by clause 9D. This amendment is now out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb655238e2884fbc9464809755431ab2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb655238e2884fbc9464809755431ab2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E During the dinner break I had the opportunity to talk to ministry officials, and they have asked that I seek leave to change one point of reference on my Supplementary Order Paper 41. The reference to section 36(1A) should read \u201Csection 46(1)\u201D. I seek leave to make that change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331b4e140b1a494790b1ebbfe50eeab2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course to be followed. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to insert new clause 9G be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222504b6133406490bb2c2c8aa26d00691\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment in the name of Metiria Turei to insert new clause 9G, as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 46, is now out of order as it is inconsistent with the previous decision we have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EThe next two amendments have been withdrawn. Those were to insert new clause 12AA, and to insert new clauses 13A and 13B, as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 40, both in the name of the Hon David Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments, except the amendment to insert new clause 9D, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to clause 4, to insert new clause 9B, and to clause 9E(2) be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d15c5f7973a84cd8a91f890e31f5dd74\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Litter Act 1979\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u002266ed2f4043fc4a88b6efeafdea551d0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266ed2f4043fc4a88b6efeafdea551d0b\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I have pleasure in speaking on Part 2, which concerns the Litter Act 1979. Just before I talk about this specific legislation, I will take the chance\u2014which I did not previously because of the dog microchipping part\u2014to say how much I have enjoyed working on the Local Government and Environment Committee. I am new to the select committee, and I have been very impressed by the quality of the official advice we have had. I have also been very impressed with the committee\u2019s work ethic, and in this specific case it has had to do a heck of a lot of work to cover this omnibus bill in a very short space of time. How well the committee has done that has exceeded my expectations\u2014ably led by the committee secretariat of Beth and co. I want to put that on record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EWhen I walk around the city with my not-to-be-microchipped dog, there are a couple of things that very much get my goat: litter and graffiti. In this case I will specifically talk about litter. \u201CPride\u201D is a wonderful word. When people have pride in their city they talk about it and become absolutely positive about it. Is it not disappointing when we see that people have unashamedly littered the street and ignored the receptacles that are in place, and have just abused the pride that others have in their city? Those people have no concern at all about the mess they leave\u2014in this case, on the Wellington City streets, but I am sure what I am saying will strike a chord with most towns and cities in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EPeople who have no pride litter, and they need to be totally held to account for that littering. Part 2 is a very good opportunity for Parliament to send a very strong message to those who litter that they jolly well should not, because, goodness me, if they go down that path it will cost them a heck of a lot. So I was very, very pleased to be part of the select committee that has totally endorsed the opportunity to lift the fines, in particular. The fines that are put in place via this legislation are quite considerable, and send a very clear message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EAt the same time, I also take the opportunity to applaud those city councils out there that spend a lot of energy and time on picking up and cleaning up after people who just make a jolly mess. A clear message is being sent to those who litter that we will not tolerate it, through the very significant lift in fines. In many cases we are increasing tenfold the fine we are looking to apply to those people. That applies not just to those who litter the streets but also to those who dump their rubbish over the fence. Unfortunately, many people do dump rubbish over the fence or drive out into the wilderness and throw it down a bank, which is a disgraceful course of action that, unfortunately, far too many take. I assure members now that clause 18 in Part 2 specifically addresses those people, and very much lifts the fine for those who deposit or leave litter in a public place, or on private land without the consent of its occupier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EIn the select committee we discussed the need to lift the fine in this area, because as waste becomes more of a topic of conversation, and as waste minimisation becomes very much where we need to head in the future, there will be a temptation by some to throw their rubbish over the fence, or, on the way to the tip, to have it accidentally fall off the back of their trolley, car, truck, and so on, and unashamedly leave it. In section 15 of the Litter Act that we are referring to there will be a fine not exceeding $20,000 for body corporates, or $5,000 for individuals. That should very much be a blockage to those people wanting to throw rubbish away in that manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EOne of the other things I would like to take the opportunity to talk about in relation to Part 2 is liability and prosecution. I will let the Minister of Local Government attend to that, because it is quite an important piece of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5871c2df39048ce8e67cb55ec538db4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5871c2df39048ce8e67cb55ec538db4\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I sense the debate on this part is reaching a conclusion, and I thought it appropriate to take a short call. I want to echo the comments of the member Mark Blumsky. Part 2 does deal very effectively with the blight on many of our communities of litter\u2014particularly broken glass. I suppose that if I have a favourite target it is that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe tenfold increase in fine from $750 to a $7,500 maximum is a good move. It sends all the right messages, and I think it is something that members have been universally supportive of. On the matter the member was just getting to, I agree that toughening up on issues of liability makes it much clearer for local authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EAll in all, this part of the bill enjoys wide support from members, and I am sure we are keen to see it enacted and for progress to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to insert new clause 17A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221bb81b78694a494eac136d4bc27b436c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222794563096b44d70966697602891536a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287e9562c5b244db986e506d69394e871\u0022\u003EPart 3  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000590\u0022\u003EAmendments to Local Electoral Act 2001\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002228774e5256b14d468491cfce063334f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228774e5256b14d468491cfce063334f2\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E As this is my first opportunity to speak in the debate since we dealt with Part 1, I just want to acknowledge the support of those who have changed the shape of this bill. We had a win in Part 1 on exempting farm dogs. National was going to oppose this legislation at the third reading. Given the turn of events that has taken place, we desire at this time to support it. I just want that recorded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EHowever, that does not mean to say that we agree with every item in the Local Government Law Reform Bill. Our view is contrary to that expressed in Part 3, and we will not support this part. Part 3 requires territorial authorities or regional councils to resolve to establish M\u0101ori wards for M\u0101ori constituencies. Our view on this is consistent with National Party policy. We have expressed from time to time the \u201Cone standard of citizens\u201D argument. Members may recall a member\u2019s bill 3 or 4 years ago on the Bay of Plenty on which we dragged out the argument for quite some members\u2019 days. We stand on that as a point of principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ELet me restate some of those principles. This is not to say that M\u0101oridom, tikanga M\u0101ori, and the issues that are important to M\u0101ori should be ignored. We do not say that; we say that there is a better way to deal with those issues. Any local authority has to deal with issues affecting a diverse number of groups. It is responsible for canvassing their opinions, examining them, and incorporating them where necessary. We say that that model should apply to all things. We believe that M\u0101ori do not need this special protection. They are assimilated, are part of society, and are represented now on most or many local authorities throughout the country. We say that the idea that this provision needs to be put in the bill is somewhat denigrating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ELet me speak from my own experience as someone who resides in Southland, in Invercargill. Who would the M\u0101ori representative be if we were to apply this measure to the Invercargill City Council? Some would mount an argument that this is the rohe of Ng\u0101i Tahu. Yes, one could mount that argument and say that that is in fact the case. Yet another group of people would say no, this is the rohe of K\u0101ti M\u0101moe and it is they who should be represented. Invercargill is not complicated in this regard. For some territorial authorities the question would be which of the iwi covered by the territorial authority should be represented. I believe that we would have some difficulty there. We cannot prescribe in the legislation which iwi it would be, because we have 77-odd local authorities and each has its own set of quite complicated circumstances. We simply cannot say which iwi should be represented. So to say just that M\u0101ori should be represented raises, I think, another problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe second problem is that we have not defined what M\u0101ori is. I do not want to be cute about this, but let me give an example quite close to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E In our family, on my wife\u2019s side and my side, sadly, the whakapapa of both our families has no M\u0101ori representation whatsoever. Most of our boys\u2014my wife and I have three boys\u2014know how to play rugby. We do not have to turn them round at half time and point them in the other direction. They have actually got a fair grasp of it. One of our sons was asked to represent M\u0101ori rugby for a province. It surprised people when he said: \u201CActually, I\u2019m not M\u0101ori.\u201D; they said: \u201CYes, you are; you understand.\u201D He has some appearance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287905d7f750047eda27db905a15d8db5\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: Was he a good rugby player? That\u2019s the main thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9b06064cf594785896f906c4578cc23\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: He is a very good rugby player. But he chose not to play for the province. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EMy point is simply that, today, there is a renaissance of M\u0101oridom. When we heard members\u2019 maiden speeches we heard wonderful examples of how that renaissance is actually fitting. Today, we are really one people. We represent all kinds of backgrounds. I have to say that to start putting in those divisions again is taking us seriously backwards. We are one people, and that is where we want to go. We want to listen to each other and work through the situation of seeing what needs to be represented in each area, by listening to the issues and not saying that it is one iwi or one hap\u016B or this person or that person who can represent each area. There are some significant dangers in taking a step backwards when we are a nation that is going forward. We are working together, and we have a desire to listen and deal with the issues. We should not prescribe that any one single ethnic background or individual has a prior right to be in local authorities and territories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ESo the National Party does not support Part 3. I have mentioned that we are going to support this bill at the third reading\u2014that is our intention\u2014but this we feel very strongly about. It is crucial that we express that here. Let me just restate that this is not saying the issues in M\u0101oridom are not important or that our contractual obligations to the Treaty of Waitangi should not be fulfilled. It is not saying that; it is just saying that they can be fulfilled and that there is a better way of achieving it, rather than requiring M\u0101ori representation specifically on territorial authorities and regional councils. So we will not be supporting Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u002265256f67b1cf4da589323444409bd2c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265256f67b1cf4da589323444409bd2c8\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I feel the need to take this call because anyone who is listening to this debate might have gained a completely wrong impression from Mr Roy. What this part does\u2014nothing more, nothing less\u2014is to correct minor drafting errors, in order to put right a provision that already exists in law. That provision is that councils can make on their own behalf, and on behalf of and with full consultation with their communities, a decision as to whether this sort of representation is part of their community\u2014not this Parliament\u2019s community. That is all this part does; it tidies up the drafting errors. I think anyone who is listening might have been given the impression\u2014it was a bit reminiscent of another measure earlier in the evening\u2014that this is something we are enacting tonight. It is not; it is a tiny, minor drafting correction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00227c60f4298f2c4439b40b7200d71fb238\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c60f4298f2c4439b40b7200d71fb238\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the comments of the Minister of Local Government about the bill\u2014that it is tidying up inaccuracies\u2014but I would still like to stand to speak against Part 3 of the Local Government Law Reform Bill, which would allow regional councils or territorial authorities to establish M\u0101ori wards or constituencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI have the greatest respect for the preservation of M\u0101ori culture, but I cannot see the value of Part 3. The amendment is potentially divisive, and I cannot see how it can add value to New Zealand society. New Zealand is very small. We have a population of only 4 million. I understand that we have approximately 10 regional councils and over 70 territorial authorities. We have separate M\u0101ori seats in Parliament, and in an MMP environment they are redundant, as we have the M\u0101ori Party with four members of Parliament. We have specific M\u0101ori representation on district health boards, and a requirement for local authorities to consult with their communities and with iwi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EAs a medical practitioner and a person who has a health background, I am very concerned about the disparity of M\u0101ori in respect of health statistics. M\u0101ori have appalling health statistics. They have appalling cancer statistics. That is really quite a scandal and it must be addressed. I accept fully the need for a separate M\u0101ori health strategy for M\u0101ori, and I fully endorse a strategy to address the dreadful health disparities. But I cannot see, for the life of me, how separate M\u0101ori wards will add value or improve disparities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EA law change to allow local bodies to set up special M\u0101ori-only wards will divide New Zealanders even more on the basis of race, and that is quite appalling. With the so-called browning of New Zealand over time, it will also become increasingly farcical, as more and more New Zealanders will have M\u0101ori ancestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIf the reason for M\u0101ori wards and counsellors is that M\u0101ori do not fare well in local body elections, then the reasons behind that need to be addressed\u2014rather than our introducing the tokenism in Part 3. Establishing M\u0101ori wards does a disservice to M\u0101ori and serves only to hide the real problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EPart 3, in my opinion, is patronising and offensive to M\u0101ori. The legislation is tokenism. It basically sidesteps the real issues of socio-economic inequities, and it creates and perpetuates more issues for M\u0101ori with its idealism of the principles of the Treaty. M\u0101ori are not genetically inclined to be less likely to be involved in local body decision-making than any other ethnicity. The real reasons why they possibly fare poorly or do not put themselves up for office are socio-economic, educational, and aspirational. M\u0101ori are one of the biggest low socio-economic groups, and if this Labour Government is so concerned about their participation, then it should concentrate more on addressing the disparities of low socio-economic groups\u2014not only M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe creation of separate M\u0101ori wards perpetuates the perception that M\u0101ori are somehow mediocre or inferior, and need extra-special treatment. The legislation also perpetuates resentment against M\u0101ori, as it will be seen as another case of special privilege being given to M\u0101ori, when, socio-economically, the opposite is true. Tokenism devalues the worth of every hard-working M\u0101ori in the State sector, as it casts doubt in people\u2019s minds as to whether a person was hired because of their ethnicity or their competence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s objectives should be to settle all Treaty claims within 10 years, unite the country, and remove the redundant M\u0101ori seats\u2014not create more seats. The bureaucracy and the millions of dollars that it would take to create M\u0101ori wards and elect M\u0101ori counsellors would be better spent on addressing the disparities that M\u0101ori face. The National Party\u2019s blueprint is a way forward for all New Zealanders to move on, to unite the country, and not to hold back groups, as this Government seems intent on doing. National wants to lift our living standards, improve literacy and numeracy skills, reduce welfare dependency, stop racial separatism, and ensure security. National wants to ensure that all New Zealanders are treated equally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, Part 3 of the Local Government Law Reform Bill will not unite New Zealanders; it will create and divide the citizens of New Zealand. It will not address the real problems of why M\u0101ori are not faring well in local body elections, and why they do not put themselves up for office. It will not solve the issues; it is only a band-aid solution. The real problem has yet to be addressed, which is the disparity, the socio-economic issues, that M\u0101ori people face. I stand and support the National Party values as the only way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022be61733c75b24334836c96a6a06dc7b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be61733c75b24334836c96a6a06dc7b0\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. \u0100hua rangirua ana au ki t\u0113nei kaupapa, e te whanaunga Dover.\t\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. Greetings to us all in the House. I am somewhat uncertain about this topic, I say to Dover, the relative.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI feel a bit in two minds over this one, on the one hand because as a party we are bound to support the right of M\u0101ori to independent and autonomous development, although on the other hand I also have a view that in terms of local authorities, M\u0101ori should not necessarily push for wards, particularly in rural areas. Instead, we should simply refuse to pay our rates until such time as local authorities are willing to deal with the iwi authorities in their particular areas on issues concerning resource management and a whole lot of other areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe issue is not about tokenism\u2014and I agree with the previous speaker, Jackie Blue. M\u0101ori do not want this because of an act of tokenism. We want our right to independent and autonomous development as a Treaty right. And it is a Treaty right. The issue is not about race; it is about the Treaty. Regardless of how many people may say it is about race and they will do away with the Treaty, I ask members to believe me when I say M\u0101ori will never forget about the Treaty. The fact that Treaty claims are being foisted upon M\u0101ori people and Treaty settlements are being signed off at less than 3 percent of their value will not make this issue go away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt is important, if we are to flourish and go forward as a positive nation, that we do so on the basis that a contract is a contract is a contract, and that a treaty is a treaty is a treaty. To sign a treaty and then assume it does not need to be honoured afterwards simply gets up the noses of those whom it was signed with\u2014in this case, M\u0101ori people. We will not accept suggestions that those things should be forgotten. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI heard Dr Jackie Blue talking about the importance of having a specific M\u0101ori focus in health. I can raise the same point in terms of education\u2014that because of how far behind the gain line M\u0101ori are, there should be a specific focus for M\u0101ori in that area\u2014and in terms of housing, justice, and a whole lot of the areas that this Government is working to push M\u0101ori out of, when it tries to make all people one people. We are not one people. I am M\u0101ori. I was born M\u0101ori, and I will die M\u0101ori. Unless there is genuine recognition of the right of M\u0101ori to be M\u0101ori, there will never ever be one true nation in this country. When I hear the k\u014Drero about whether we are M\u0101ori or whether we are assimilated, I point out that we are not assimilated and we will never be assimilated. The fact that k\u014Dhanga reo has given the opportunity for young M\u0101ori people to become more productive citizens, because of their ability to be comfortable in both their own language and lifestyle as well as in those of P\u0101keh\u0101, is reason enough why we should support independent M\u0101ori initiatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn terms of our status as tangata whenua, that status is guaranteed by the fact that we are the first nation of Aotearoa. We will not accept that M\u0101ori can simply be written off, whether it be through the tokenism\u2014and I believe it to be tokenism\u2014of the establishment of M\u0101ori wards, or through other means. Although people may laugh, I have recommended\u2014and I will continue to recommend this in my home area\u2014that M\u0101ori people consider not paying their rates to the local authority but pay them to the local iwi authority, so that the council will be required to negotiate with it on all issues in terms of water, resource management, the foreshore and seabed, roading, sewerage, and everything. By doing so, we will then be able to create, in my view, a genuine partnership that is the basis of the partnership that I would like to see happen in this House and in all other aspects of management and leadership in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EKoi n\u0101no taku k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei p\u014D; t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E[And that is my address for this evening; greetings to you, and good health to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0fe5ac0246142a493cfff9f485ea71c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0fe5ac0246142a493cfff9f485ea71c\u0022\u003EHon DOVER SAMUELS (Minister of State):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairman. I will take a short call. Some of the issues raised by Hone were very pertinent, but I think we have to look at something that is more fundamental. I am reminded of the arguments that took place when the original legislation came before the House, and of the adverse reaction from the National Party to M\u0101ori having separate regional or local council representation. It is very pertinent that National members actually have some consistency in their argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003EI do not believe that M\u0101ori representation in this Parliament is tokenism, and I want to say that very clearly. Our people fought for a long time to be represented in the House of Representatives, in this Parliament, and to say that that M\u0101ori representation is tokenism undermines and degrades M\u0101oridom\u2019s intelligence. Local government may be considered a separate stratum in terms of democratic representation. I for one have represented my people at the local and regional government level over many years, but I never saw it as tokenism; I saw it as a different stratum in terms of the democratic right of M\u0101ori to be represented at all levels of government. If it is good enough for M\u0101ori to be represented in this House, from the perspective of parliamentary representation, democratic representation, it is good enough to accord the same rules to our people in terms of local or regional government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003EIt is an absolute turn-round, and unacceptable, to hear from the National Party that, in fact, M\u0101ori representation is OK on a parliamentary basis. I remind the people of New Zealand and M\u0101oridom that at the last election the National Party tried to cosy up to the M\u0101ori Party so that it could get the numbers to be the Government of this country. I am reminded by my colleague in New Zealand First of the \u201Ch\u201D word. I will not say that word, but one has to be consistent in one\u2019s argument. If someone says it is not good enough for M\u0101ori to be represented at the local government level, that person is actually saying it is not good enough for them to be represented at the parliamentary level. Members should be consistent in their arguments, because the argument is a democratic one. If M\u0101ori can be represented in this House democratically, then they can be represented at the other level\u2014local government\u2014through exactly the same system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003ESo what is wrong with setting up these wards? The argument I heard in terms of M\u0101ori development is valid, but we have to look at the sets of values we are talking about. I appreciate the endeavours of some colleagues to lessen M\u0101ori disparities, and to ensure that M\u0101ori have the same opportunities\u2014economically, socially, and culturally\u2014at that level. But what we are talking about here is democratic representation. It is very important, in terms of achieving the goals of the legislation, which we require local government to acknowledge and put into place, that we allow our people to have democratic representation on our local authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003EI look across the room to my colleague John Carter. John and I have been in local government for many years. We have encouraged our people to stand for Parliament. We have always encouraged our M\u0101ori constituents to stand and be represented at the local government level. I ask colleagues to be consistent in their arguments. If our people wish to have local government representation and separate local government wards, then I think they should be given the opportunity to be consulted about that. At the end of the day, the community will make the decision. It is up to the local authorities or the regional councils to make the decision, after conducting a fully democratic consultative process. If that is not democracy, I ask what is. It is not a matter of our coming down arbitrarily and saying what people shall have. Rather, after going through the process in a constituency like that of my colleague John Carter and me, the far north, if it is considered prudent, and if the people of our Far North District Council democratically decide to put into place separate wards, why should it not do that? That is the democratic process, and I believe, as a matter of principle, that Parliament should support it. Thank you, Mr Chairman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c989f098d97945d480e1cff5ed8cd930\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c989f098d97945d480e1cff5ed8cd930\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to Part 3 on behalf of ACT New Zealand. ACT has always been very consistent on the matter of separate representation, so we will be opposing Part 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224fa056982e3d44abaa94b8bf6843f24c\u0022\u003EMr Samuels has taken exception to the use of the word \u201Ctokenism\u201D, and we could probably stand here tonight and have a long debate about whether this situation is a case of tokenism. I acknowledge what Dr Jackie Blue said in her speech\u2014I agree with everything she said. I believe that separate representation is derogatory to M\u0101ori and is divisive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef7c9b2ca7354e0aa1e618e8900bb555\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge many of the comments Mr Harawira made, particularly about M\u0101ori achieving what they want to achieve in New Zealand, and about the sort of New Zealand he wants for M\u0101ori. I agree with many of the comments he made, but I do not think this legislation is the way to get there. I agree with much of what M\u0101ori Party members say, particularly about welfare reform and health disparities, which have already been mentioned, but, again,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000628\u0022\u003E separate M\u0101ori representation is not the way for M\u0101ori to move ahead in New Zealand so that we have one nation for all, and one rule of law.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000629\u0022\u003E New Zealand now is a multicultural nation. We have a growing Asian population in this country. My youngest children go to a primary school where there are 30 different nationalities represented. Children of many cultures are learning together under that one roof. That is a New Zealand I celebrate. I welcome the fact that my children participate in an area where they are subject to many, many different cultures. I think they will grow up to be much better New Zealand citizens as a result. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000630\u0022\u003EThe point I particularly want to make\u2014and it is one that ACT has consistently made since its representation in Parliament in 1996\u2014is that when special privilege or special treatment is offered to one group in society, another group is automatically disenfranchised. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000631\u0022\u003EIn the future, it might well be that some wards in our local territories and authorities are predominantly M\u0101ori. What do we do then? Do we then give special privilege to other groups so that they have representation and are not disadvantaged?\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e055b5030234262a69411db5c4fefb9\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a farce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b79ce5223df34caab2ef6199c41a7828\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; it is a farce that will never end. We want to see one rule of law\u2014one law for all New Zealanders. We want to see all New Zealanders being treated equally. That is the way to make New Zealanders equal\u2014to help them with welfarism and with those health disparities that we spend a lot of time discussing in this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003ESo, for those very reasons, ACT will be opposing Part 3. We hope to see in the future a New Zealand where everybody is treated equally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00222f8bc85cc8ea46289ce1009ee5043968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f8bc85cc8ea46289ce1009ee5043968\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I take a call in response to my colleagues Hone Harawira and Dover Samuels. I am pleased to say we are proud to be Northlanders. The three of us work together for Northland as MPs, without letting our politics get in the way, and that is how it should be. We are three proud Northlanders. Both Dover and Hone are of M\u0101ori descent; I am non-M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI want to make a point about an issue that Hone and Dover talked about today. They talked about New Zealand as we see it now, and they talked about assimilation. They talked about the fact that the common view is that M\u0101ori have to assimilate into our white society\u2014the society we brought here 160-odd years ago. I want to make this point to both of them and also to the Committee, because I think it is a seriously important point to make. I have a mokopuna who is obviously of my blood but is also of Dover\u2019s and Hone\u2019s blood. She is the future of this country. She is New Zealand. She is what we are becoming. She is what this country will be. She is not assimilated into the white people of this country; we are assimilating into the M\u0101ori of this country, and as time progresses\u2014as the ocean of time waves over this country\u2014so too will our blood mingle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI see a time in the future when we will all be part of the Treaty, and that is a day I look forward to. It will be the day when our blood cannot be distinguished or defined, because we are New Zealanders. The problem we have at the moment is that it is quite easy to define ourselves. But as time washes over this nation and as our bloods mingle, a lot of these issues will disappear, because people like my mokopuna will look at themselves and say: I\u2019m a New Zealander.\u201D; \u201CI\u2019m a Kiwi.\u201D; \u201CI\u2019m of New Zealand blood.\u201D They will not say: \u201CI\u2019m of overseas heritage.\u201D or \u201CI\u2019m of M\u0101ori heritage.\u201D; they will say: \u201CI\u2019m a New Zealander.\u201D We will find that happening more and more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI want to make another point in the Committee tonight. Dover Samuels was elected to the Northland Regional Council and, indeed, to the Far North District Council, and he is M\u0101ori. But he was not elected on a special ward; he was elected because he had the ability to represent the people, and he was recognised for that. Quite honestly, I think it is insulting to the people\u2014who are good people\u2014to say: \u201CNevertheless, we\u2019re going to have to protect you.\u201D I do not believe that that should be the case. Although we look at these issues in today\u2019s environment, I say to this Parliament that we need to look ahead to what the future will bring and to what New Zealand will be in time. We should not strap ourselves with laws that in time will be a barrier to our future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022664e700eebbc4f9d876da84ae5a0b4c7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022528bdb4e096a4268ad450e0916424529\u0022\u003EPart 4  Amendments to Local Government Act 2002\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00227c003e4bb5e449aaa65dcefe81d3fc97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c003e4bb5e449aaa65dcefe81d3fc97\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Part 4 is a substantial part of this bill, and the National Party wants to record its opposition to it. I want to say again as we go through this bill, given the changes that have been made to Part 1, that it is very likely\u2014although the final decision has not yet been made\u2014the National Party will support this bill in its third reading. But that is yet to be considered and confirmed. In doing so, however, we want to make it very clear\u2014when members\u2019 Hansards are pulled out in future debates and we are told that we voted for this bill in the third reading\u2014that there are parts of this bill we are adamantly against. We want to register our view, just as we did, for instance, in Part 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EMy other colleagues will talk about other parts in relation to changes to legislation affecting parks and to contribution development levies. I want to talk about long-term community plans and about the way in which this Government has gone about imposing this huge cost on local government, and, as a consequence, on ratepayers. The genesis of the idea of a long-term community plan actually started in 1995 with the National Party. It was the National Party that said that both central government and local government needed to have a good look at infrastructure right across the country, to see what its infrastructural needs were, to see what we had, and to see what the likely costs would be in the future\u2014and the concept is good, because we used to ignore what was underground until it busted out on us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003ESo we started the process a number of years ago. But then this Government came along and put all sorts of fancy requirements and compliance costs on to local government and, as a consequence, huge costs on to ratepayers. The system we have now is silly. Local government has to sit there and work out a draft long-term community plan. It is required to take a note of inflation over the next 10 years, it has to look at all sorts of other costs over a 10-year period, then to consult with the people in the way it does. Councils have huge numbers of meetings around the community and they are lucky to get two or three people turn up to them. There are huge costs, great staff costs, and a lot of council time for little benefit and little involvement of the community\u2014and that is just the draft. Then there is the auditing by the Audit Office\u2014by people from overseas because they do not have enough auditors. It is silly. The process is silly; the concept is fine. The Greens actually saw that thing through. Jeanette Fitzsimons, to her credit, as chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, passed the thing last term and, again to her credit, the concept was fine. It was the bits this Government put around it that made it a silly idea and imposed huge costs on local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EQuite honestly, I say that this Government is starting to be recognised by the ratepayers and councils of this country as putting in too much compliance and too many costs. Rates are going up with little return, and it is because this Government, this Minister in the chair, the Hon Mark Burton, and this Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Helen Clark, are imposing unnecessary requirements on local government and communities, so that they are not delivering services. Why could we not have gone straight to a long-term community plan, got the figures and facts out there in front of the people, then started working on it? When we think about the audit the Government has required to be done on draft schemes, the problem is that the Government does not trust local government. That is really the issue, when we think about it. Is that not the logic of it? Why, otherwise, would the Government have something audited, if it were not that it did not trust local government to do its job? I do. Out of all the things that have been audited, only three have qualifications, and the councils took those decisions deliberately. They disagreed with the Minister, for example, when he said that councils were required to put in an estimate and judge what inflation will be in 10 years\u2019 time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIt is that sort of stupidity and those sorts of idiot decisions that have meant this Government has put extra costs on local government. Quite honestly, I think that it is unnecessary. As I say, to the best of my knowledge, only three councils out of all those audited have got qualifications, and the three were for minor details. There was no need for audit; local government authorities and their officers were doing a good job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00227674cd7ac08e42fbb4780e67ee642de6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227674cd7ac08e42fbb4780e67ee642de6\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I have to respond\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ab685dce594a03b2931a0263352c10\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: Great to hear the Minister respond on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ca009770dc94e9fbbbedf4df848bbb8\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, this Minister responds on every issue\u2014the member should know that I make a practice of trying to engage sensibly on sensible points. The previous speaker has raised some interesting and important points, but I have to challenge what he has said. In relation to the planning process, he said that on the one hand it was a sensible idea, but he said that on the other hand authorities should have a plan, go out there, and get on with it. Well, the process is about consultation and transparency. The process is about authorities saying that there is a proposal of what they intend to do and, just as important, there is what it will cost. Let us get some feedback on what people want: do they want this, or want more or less of it, and are they willing to pay for it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EThe member himself raised a very important point about part of what drives this process. That is, for a couple of generations, councils\u2014generally, but not always; there are some notable exceptions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c5b72c01bbb4a289b2786ade6065955\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228751d669085b4e719374403428b7be53\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and Governments have largely ignored what was underground and could not be seen, until it was broken. Then it has fallen to some other generation to fix it. That is what is happening around the country now, because things are wearing out about now. Many communities are faced with massive infrastructure costs, just in order to stand still. Most communities are not all that content with standing still; they want to improve. They want to develop, and they want new opportunities and new facilities. Those are the challenges that councils face. That process invites communities to be very much part of an open and transparent process, in which they make value judgments about their priorities and on what they are willing to pay. That has to be a process of genuine engagement and consultation\u2014not simply someone flicking off a report and saying: \u201CThis is what we are going to do. Thought we would tell you about it and, by the way, you were consulted.\u201D That will not do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003ESecondly, in relation to the issue of audit, I say to the member that I am pleased that at the end of the audit process, it looks as if there are three, possibly four, qualified audits. But I can equally say\u2014because, of course, I have kept a careful watch on this issue; I have engaged with local government and I have certainly engaged with the auditors\u2014that had it not been for a process of engagement with the auditors, there would have been many, many more qualified audits than there will be. That tells me that the audit function is adding value to the process. Some of that cost may well, in the case of some councils, save ratepayers\u2014for the price of, say, $30,000 extra\u2014a million dollars of unnecessary expenditure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003ESo I caution members, when talking about the cost and benefit of audit, to be careful not to get too far ahead of the facts, because I think that at the end of this cycle, it will become clear to many members that the audit function has added significant value, and has saved considerable cost and unnecessary expense for many ratepayers around New Zealand. I would hope that the next time the audit cycle takes place, it will be a lot smoother, because the lessons will have been learnt. But it is clear from this cycle that it has been helpful to many councils. It has cost a little bit, but it could have cost ratepayers a great deal more of unnecessary and unwise expenditure without it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003ESo, all in all, I think this is good progress, and I am confident the process will continue to improve over time. It engages communities in making quality decisions, on their own behalf, and it includes communities working with their councils to determine their priorities and what they are willing to pay for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9eb1869ec9c43d695dbbd74a94048cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9eb1869ec9c43d695dbbd74a94048cf\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E When I spoke to Part 2 earlier I alluded to how much I have enjoyed working through this particular omnibus bill. However, as my colleague John Carter just mentioned, it is difficult, when we have such a wide range of items coming through in one bill, to agree totally with some of them but disagree with one or two. We end up voting against certain parts, when in the main they are actually not bad but the Government just stuffed them up a little in the process. That is when it gets a bit difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EI suppose what I want to do, in this opportunity to speak to Part 4, is to comment on a couple of provisions we agree with and a couple we disagree with. We certainly agree with new section 138, inserted by clause 33, which talks about parks. It talks about the need for a local authority to consult the public before selling or disposing of parks. That is not an issue, at all\u2014we can buy into that. Parks are very important to the community, and it makes a heck of a lot of sense to have a solid consultative process when one is to embark on disposal. Where we think the bill gets a little bit off-track is in clause 34, which talks about minor boundary changes. If a council has a park, and it wants to make an itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny, little boundary change to the park, the bill suggests that the council has to go through the full consultative process on that itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny boundary change. The word is \u201Cminor\u201D. It could be that just a footpath is being put in, or a wee bit of road is being widened, but a full consultation process has to be gone through. That is incredibly expensive, and National thinks that is stupid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EDevelopment contributions are also alluded to in Part 4. We do not have an issue with development contributions per se, but the provision is a warning to authorities to be careful that their development contributions are fair. We believe that development contributions\u2014as the Property Council of New Zealand indicated to me just the other day\u2014have a role in funding, but there is a fairness issue. One of the things I am glad we did park in the select committee was the issue of giving development contributions to regional councils. They want them, but we have said that we should have a good talk about it and look at this issue, which is highly complex. A report is coming through from the Local Government Forum, and we agree with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EThe third and final matter in Part 4 that I would like quickly to talk to is the long-term council community plans. There is consultation fatigue, I tell the Minister. He talked about how fantastic it is that communities are being consulted on their long-term plans. We do not have a problem with that. But the Minister should not forget that every year they have to do an annual plan. Asset management plans are also done, by law, and there is now a 3-year review of the long-term council community plan. I can assure the Minister that every time a new council gets elected, its members go through the whole thing all over again to make sure that the new council buys into the strategy and vision of that plan. The community is very tired of consultation. I tell the Minister that I think we have to be careful that we do not lose the community in this work we are asking it to do\u2014at a very expensive cost. The Queenstown mayor made a point of telling me that it has cost $350,000 and has taken one person 6 months just to do the council\u2019s little bit through the long-term council community plan process. The mayor is actually not sure of how much the community really knows is happening. That is where we have an issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EI hear what members say about the need to be transparent and the need for councils to be audited, but I assure them that the audit does not look at what the community is deciding but at whether the council has dotted the i\u2019s, crossed the t\u2019s, and followed the process. I do not believe that this will result in any long-term big savings because the other costs in the process happen when councils spend their money on things. The audit does not look at what councils are spending their money on. It looks at whether inflation was included and whether all the bits and bobs were done\u2014bits and bobs that actually have very little relevance in the long term to the community but they are very much relevant to auditors, who get right into that. National members like a lot of what this bill does, but there are bits and bobs throughout it that we think are wrong. We will be voting accordingly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229f57ca77cb40424ba6372ee40be806ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f57ca77cb40424ba6372ee40be806ee\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E I place on record National\u2019s opposition to Part 4. It is good to hear the Minister in the chair, Mark Burton, acknowledge that there will be, in his words, a little bit of cost associated with the audit process of long-term council community plans. Not only have I engaged with local government but I have also been part of local government, and I have sat through a number of consultation rounds to do with long-term council community plans. I made a quick call to one of my former colleagues, and I asked him how much, so far, the 2006 audit of the long-term council community plan of the Waitaki District Council has cost. His answer was that the council had received an account for about $30,000, and another account for around $60,000, or a wee bit more than that, perhaps\u2014he was not quite sure what else was still to come\u2014so I think it hurts. A bill of $100,000 for a small local authority of 22,000 people hurts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThat bill of $100,000 for the audit of a long-term council community plan is just for the audit. It represents just the very beginning of the cost associated with long-term council community plans. Months and months of officer time is taken up with writing reports. A number of meetings are held and multiple subcommittees are formed, because we all know that local government committees must discuss the various aspects of long-term council community plans. I say to the Minister that consultation and transparency are laudable objectives within local government, but they also come at a cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ETo the ratepayers of the Waitaki District Council, that 10-year long-term council community plan is just a document. In the words of one local businessman who spoke to me, I ask: who reads it? That is probably a fairly good question. Who does read a long-term council community plan apart from those people who are connected with its writing or auditing? In my time as an elected representative on the Waitaki District Council, I spent an awful lot of lost hours involved in consultation and in working up a long-term council community plan\u2014and for what? It was for no gain for the district, I venture to add. All that those plans do, in my experience, is tie up local authorities, ever more, in red tape. Those plans are a recipe for achieving nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI will tell members why I hold that view. As soon as a local authority wants to get on with some kind of major project, that then triggers that magical significance clause. That special significance clause then triggers the special consultative process. That special consultative process might be transparent, but it is also costly, lengthy, and a recipe for very, very slow progress, in a local authority. I tell the Minister that a community does not stand still. It does not want to stand still, but in terms of infrastructure and any major projects, if it is not moving forward, spending money, and planning for the future, then it is surely moving backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI refer to another provision in Part 4, which is the requirement to review bylaws every 10 years. The Waitaki district until recently still had bylaws in force about hitching horses to hitching rails along the historic part of town. Actually, there was nothing terribly wrong with those bylaws\u2014they did not do anybody any harm. There is also nothing wrong with a review of bylaws, except that we keep coming back to the cost. Do members know what the major gripe is with local government that ratepayers have? It is the level of their rates. I suggest that a lot of the anxiety and pain felt by ratepayers in New Zealand is caused because of the level of rates imposed by the costs brought down by this Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022eca80f7a7bcc47cfaac5ea340066a805\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eca80f7a7bcc47cfaac5ea340066a805\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a short call on Part 4. Some points have been made by our team and I pretty much concur with all of them. Mark Blumsky made the point that inside the bill are some things we will go for and some bits we will not go for. Those bits, and some of the things we are for, have been outlined by the previous three National speakers. I can look, as a businessman, at clause 32 regarding the removal of the prohibition on a local authority from borrowing foreign currency. An authority might be going to buy a container crane that comes from Germany or somewhere and want to take a forward position. It seems fine to me that we allow those sorts of provisions. So there are bits and pieces in this part that look OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EBut I want to pick up a theme, and I would like the Minister in the chair, Mark Burton, to respond to it. I want to explain to him the position I was put in last week when I met with my local mayors and chairs, which I do on a reasonably regular basis. We talked about the long-term council community plans. Four local authorities were represented, and some said that the plan gave them a bit of focus. They said that the plans were quite expensive and that they did not agree with some of the decisions made about the audit process, but that the plans gave them some focus. I have to say that that was not the majority decision. There was a general view that the plans cost a lot and that some bits just do not make sense. For example, the representatives asked how they could value stuff\u2014they said they could not look forward and say where some of the costs would go, so they got into trouble with the audit process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe Invercargill City Council said that its plan had cost one point something million dollars, that it had still not got through the process, and that the plan had not added anything. It said it did not hold assets and that it just wanted to get on and do the job. So there was a mixture of views. But I say to the Minister that the question put to me was why we in Parliament have a distinctly different system from that in local government. When we read Part 4, we see that the word that comes up all the way through is \u201Cconsult\u201D\u2014\u201Cconsult\u201D here and \u201Cconsult\u201D there. There is a high level of consultation on a long-term council community plan. The questions directed to me were why we in Parliament do not have to consult like local authorities do, and why we are using local authorities like guinea pigs when they have to do all this consulting and we just do what we want to do. They said that we have a system whereby when we get into Parliament, we are the winners for 3 years, and if people do not like it, they can have a go in 3 years. But local authorities are not allowed to do that. Members of Parliament head off to Wellington for 4 days a week, or whatever, but local authority members cannot even buy bread or milk without facing people on a daily basis. So members of local authorities are accountable on a daily basis. They cannot get away with anything that would cause the public to lose understanding of where they are going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe question was why elected members of Parliament do not undertake the same consultation process. Local authority members made those very points. Why do members of Parliament not have a consultation process about the size of the surplus we have? Why do members of Parliament not have a consultation process about whether we should have tax cuts? Why do members of Parliament, or the Government, not have a consultation process about the Kyoto Protocol, the free-trade agreement with China, or any of those other things that they just go and do? Why are there two systems? Why does the Government have experiments on local government that it is not prepared to do itself? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI thought that those were very pertinent questions and I look forward to the Minister\u2019s response to explain why it is that the Government puts layer after layer of consultation requirements on to local government, when essentially people are elected with the same motivation to do the right thing for their patch and to manage their affairs in the way that they are required to do. Yet we have loaded up an extraordinarily expensive process of consultation, consultation, consultation. I look forward to the Minister\u2019s response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to Part 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002272b9455d22284d87a32247b1fc451196\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022389c73b9b1b14694a22010876204027d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 4 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; M\u0101ori Party 4; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 4 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0fc71273e0b4e9bb4f1413724f3bd14\u0022\u003EPart 5  Amendments to Local Government Act 1974\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000671\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 43 in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to Part 5 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d205454eeec348e39a32309ebd67a518\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; ACT New Zealand 2; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000672\u0022\u003EPart 5 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000673\u0022\u003EPart 6 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa5871a34b5845a8a3dafdf59f7b819d\u0022\u003EPart 7  Amendments to Rates Rebate Act 1973\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00226f494fec3f6a4f3396426044a6d29191\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f494fec3f6a4f3396426044a6d29191\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Rates rebates, and the way in which this Government is putting them to local government, are a perfect example of the comments that I and my colleagues have made with regard to this Government continually putting on to local government more compliance costs. The Minister in the chair, the Hon Mark Burton, will stand up and wax lyrical about the wonderful thing the Government has done for elderly folk and the poor people who cannot afford to pay their rates\u2014that this wonderful Government has taken money out of the pockets of hard-working taxpayers, so it can give it to some people who cannot pay their rates. But the Minister does not tell the ratepayers of this country who is paying the cost of administering that. They should ask the Minister that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe situation is the same as when the Minister said people should not worry about the long-term community consultation plans, because the audit was not too much of a cost. But as my colleagues have said, the Minister does not tell the ratepayers of this country what it cost local government to put the long-term community consultation plans together. For instance, it cost Whangarei District Council over $500,000 to put its plan together. On top of that, the district council will have to meet the administration of the dog law that the Government has just put through, and all sorts of things such as the earthquake and war damage measure, the Building Act, and the prostitution law reform legislation. The list goes on and on. On top of that, here we go with the rates rebate. The Government is loading that on to local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EDo members know what is really disappointing with regard to this Government? It is not a matter of whether it cares about that; it does not even know what it is doing. It never occurs to the Government that someone actually has to administer these things. When somebody goes to the council and asks to have a rates rebate, local government has to have a clerk to provide the application and get the papers filled out. The clerk then has to vet the application, go through it, and make sure it is right. There is time involved, and then the application has to be processed. The council then has to put a claim in to the Government, and it goes on and on\u2014[Interruption] It takes three people to do rates rebates? It takes one person in Waitaki, and three in Invercargill; I bet there is a whole department in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fbc8f788ad74c0b9794aea527e56607\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c951d1c5f104157a2b97b6c91f43b36\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Our colleague is even going to tell us how many people there are there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EDo members know what the real worry is? My mother will go along to the council and say she wants a rates rebate. The problem is that she will not know whether she is eligible. That will cause more time and more cost. Who will pay for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211acbabceafb4934a64cf612b5c330df\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: The ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d786be5c2f747e0a8123a228e7f73f0\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No, my mother will pay, because she is a ratepayer. She will actually pay for something that she is trying to get for herself from this Government that she has already paid for in the first place. She has paid her taxes. She has given that money to this Government to hand to local government, so that she can then go and apply for it. How dopey is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThat is the trouble with this Government. It never thinks about where money comes from. It never thinks about who pays. It does not care about the costs it imposes on people. It does not care about the fact that there are compliance costs and they cost ratepayers a whole heap of money. What does the Government do? Oh, no, this cosy, warm Government likes to hand out our money, and to put its hands in our pockets\u2014I can think of some hands in my pocket that I do not actually want to be in there, but the Government puts them there anyway. I bet that sometimes it gets a bit of a surprise, but that is its problem. Then the Government takes the money out\u2014[Interruption] Mr Williamson should think about my dear old mum, who pays her taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a5e57f98fb4e18bda7b207f30122a9\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: I think about her every morning when I wake up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a91eea50bc249fdb2903d69e1af46a5\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member does not. But the point is that she pays her taxes. Mark Burton takes them from her, writes out a cheque, and gives it to local government. Then Mum goes in to the council and applies for the rebate. So she has paid taxes, and then she pays rates to administer that process so that she can get the money back again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216efd9386b3c459fa29e432eef21fd7d\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: It is no wonder the elderly are confused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7a406ba7f24d8b859c4fb9684710c1\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: My mother is so confused she is having problems getting the roller door up and down, let alone getting a rates rebate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d969925cc041009d7020a88a7799af\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Minister, I advise the Committee that the vote on Part should have been called as 111 for not 110. With the permission of the Committee, that will be amended? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022eca61bbdd14e498dac557e71c632c1e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eca61bbdd14e498dac557e71c632c1e9\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E One of the tests of being a good MP is that one has to know when to give a bit of credit. It would have been perfectly fair for John Carter to take on the long-term council community plan process at the appropriate stage of the debate, but this is the time for a bit more generosity of spirit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003EMr John Carter is from a party whose last act in office in 1999 was to reach deep into the pockets of the pensioners in my electorate and attempt to take out $38,000 every week in pension cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc971b644b3641e79cbd1a5626fb3fb9\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Including his mum!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e07e6862e9f645c0aad93bd9e9f6967f\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is no wonder Mr Williamson wakes up every morning and thinks about the member\u2019s dear old mum\u2014he is still worried about her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003ELet us be fair. This provision, which in my view is overdue, lifts the threshold for those who are eligible for a rates rebate, and it lifts the amount. It increases the income threshold from $7,500 to $20,000, and the maximum amount eligible has been increased from $200 to $500. That will mean the difference between 4,000 people making a claim this year and 300,000 people being eligible to make a claim in the coming year. Members should be happy to support this provision. I simply ask the National members whether they will support this provision or oppose it; and, if they are going to oppose it, will they make a pledge to reverse it at the next election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u002260bae68573fc48dcb78911797c350749\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260bae68573fc48dcb78911797c350749\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am sure that\u2014picking up the comments of the Minister of Local Government\u2014we will have a very interesting debate in caucus. As he talked I reflected on what I would have done. Would I have voted for this rates rebate scheme in its current form? If the Working for Families package had been put forward at the same time, I would not have voted for the rates rebate. I suggest that the Minister is putting even more people on to a benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EI take this opportunity to quote from one of the papers the Local Government and Environment Committee received. The departmental report to the select committee included a very clever little comment from officials: \u201CIt has also been noted by the Office for Senior Citizens that many elderly citizens feel comfortable making applications at their local council for the Rates Rebate Scheme but would feel somewhat alienated if the Scheme were perceived as income support that they had to apply for at a government office.\u201D That tells me that if the Minister puts this provision through his Government agencies, the elderly\u2014of whom this provision will capture many\u2014will perceive it as income support and will not like it, and that is a concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EThe main thing I do not like about this measure going through the House is the cost to local government. A number of city councils made a point during the submission process of saying that they had concerns about the cost of administering the extended rates rebate scheme\u2014in particular, the Auckland City Council, the Waitaki District Council, and the Manukau City Council. I thought I would pick up a point from the Auckland City Council submission as to why it has concerns about the implications and impacts of the Minister\u2019s rates rebate scheme. I quote: \u201CA review of the 2001 census data indicates Auckland City may be required to process around 20,000 rate rebate applications annually.\u201D So 20,000 applications will have to be processed by the Auckland City Council, which currently processes 250. I suggest that it will be an incredible imposition on the workforce at the Auckland City Council who currently work on the rates rebate scheme. The submission also states: \u201CIt is likely that these costs will not be able to be absorbed at present staffing levels and will require additional resources.\u201D That will come at a cost, and the council has figured out that the increased cost to its ratepayers will be up to $160,000. It continues: \u201CWe are disappointed by the fact that yet another Government bill is putting imposition and cost on to the ratepayer.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EAnother very interesting point came through in the submissions to the select committee. A number of councils now send out a separate bill for water and waste-water services, amongst other things, and, of course, they will not be captured by the rates bill. Those councils were concerned that there needs to be a look at what is captured by the rates rebate scheme. The Government has requested further policy work on this issue, and it will be reported back in 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EFinally, the other issue that came up at the select committee concerned superannuitants who live in a retirement village. A number of submissions talked about the fact that because of the structure of the retirement homes that some superannuitants live in and the way their living arrangements are worked out\u2014that is, they have a licence to occupy\u2014they are not officially classed as ratepayers. I suggest there is an anomaly there. Those people have made that investment, and have very little income, and no doubt the costs of rates come through in the annual charges attached to the licence. We note those issues in relation to superannuitants and their retirement village arrangements. I hear that the Government, through the select committee, has noted that issue, and, again, the officials have been asked to report back on the matter. I look forward to being on the select committee when that information comes forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dc051f8b37dd4fea947a88f34afe4f94\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 7 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 7 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022265092fae4bc492698c7a4f4cbc45de3\u0022\u003EPart 8  Amendments to Land Transport Act 1998\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022738775d908a44c199afdffa29371120f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022738775d908a44c199afdffa29371120f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to be able to take a call on Part 8, which is only four clauses\u2014clauses 69, 70, 71, and 72. Basically, in my view, this part takes us back to yesteryear, to a time\u2014as those in this Chamber who were around then will recall\u2014that was one of the worst possible times for traffic enforcement on our roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWe had a department of traffic officers, which was part of the Ministry of Transport. That was bad enough. Fortunately, when it merged with the police we got a better standard of behaviour, and traffic officers began trying to work cooperatively and collaboratively with motorists. I am delighted that that is what we got. But we also had a number of local authorities with their own traffic enforcement units. I know that Darren Hughes would not have been around in those days, but if he had I would have loved to take him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277f3e55ec74e475498f59e11285f013d\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: He wouldn\u2019t have been born.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221472083942764344890ebc205f41a6eb\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: He would not have been born at that stage, but I would have loved to take him to see some of the local authority traffic enforcement units and show him how they operated. We had a number in Auckland. Mount Albert had one and T\u0101maki had one. It was quite clear that the public\u2019s perception was that those units ended up being just little Gestapo-type units that were heavily focused on revenue raising, were not too fussed about anything to do with road safety, and pinged anybody and everybody whenever they could. I know of a mayor in Auckland who got pinged for doing about 5 kilometres over the speed limit by one of these \u201CFlash Harries\u201D driving up behind him, hauling him over, and pinging him, when just about everybody drove at that speed on that road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EOne of the best things that happened because of the local government reform by Dr Michael Bassett, a Labour Minister\u2014and I give him credit for what he did\u2014in 1989, when he forced a whole lot of amalgamations, was that he actually got rid of what I think was a scourge. Eric Roy from Invercargill might remember there was an Invercargill traffic enforcement unit. Fortunately, I never drove around Invercargill enough back in those days to know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022017ecbfd450b4a2d98a538a6dd248107\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: It was awful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5291d9fdb6041f080960fff72d8e2e2\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: There we go. The experience at the exact other end of the country, at the bottom of the South Island, was exactly what we experienced in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ENow the definition of an enforcement authority\u2014either the police or, in some cases, Land Transport New Zealand, which used to be the Land Transport Safety Authority\u2014is being repealed, and the ability to issue infringement offence notices, in this case relating to the use of special vehicle lanes, is being given to employees of local authorities, or Transit, or a public road controlling authority. It is being given to a whole range of people\u2014what I would call basically Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all. I do not actually think there are too many local authorities out there right now that, if they were given some powers of enforcement and the ability to issue infringement notices, would want to go back to those bad old days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f63dd9eca71455a98ad09eab71af06f\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the last thing they would want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9cf7f605c894d58abc781733b87769d\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think any of them would want to, but I signal caution to this Committee that the moment we start enabling that to be the case, we will get slippage. Eventually, some little empire builder within one of the little operations will decide that, hey, it would not be too bad if they could\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf1106f253af4c7ea9f99d026d11ce06\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What, the local authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12a253d05de48e789f32ac446ed47f5\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I know that John Carter is surprised to hear there could be some empire building going on within local government. I know that it has not happened to date. It certainly did not happen in Wellington City when Mayor Blumsky was in charge\u2014that is for sure. In fact, if anything, the place was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287489ed2b6c44ff3b573b2317ab40147\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Not in the Hokianga county, it didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022899d06a8b59e435ea6b1471b3d2edd6a\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know where Hokianga county was, so I cannot comment on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022270d830bdefb4a2892dd55ef37f66fe6\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Neither did I.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fb35535f8564fb89f53077dcb8c0e3b\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Neither did the member\u2014OK. But all I want to say is that the reason for the National Party\u2019s opposition to this provision is that it is really not needed. If there are breaches of all sorts of things\u2014such as a car with just one person in it driving down a special transit lane for vehicles with heavy occupancy of, say, three people, and blocking up the lane, or a car using a bus-only lane and causing trouble\u2014there very clearly is a proper authority to enforce those laws, just like there is an authority to enforce speed limits and to take dangerous cars and drink-drivers off the road, and it is called the New Zealand Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EWe heard the Minister of Police, who also happens to be the Minister of Transport, waxing lyrical in the House today about the 1,000 new front-line police officers. There was no question about it. In fact, she was berating any member who questioned whether we would get that huge increase in the number of front-line enforcement officers. If it is the case that there will be this huge ramping up of the numbers of front-line officers to go out and do enforcement duties\u2014and I presume the Minister is to be taken at her word\u2014then does it not make far more sense to task those people, who are trained and who have the respect of the New Zealand public, to do this work? Despite some slip-ups by a few bad policemen from time to time\u2014and we have all heard a few examples\u2014I still think that, in the main, the police are well respected in this country. I certainly believe they are much higher up the pecking order than politicians or secondhand-car salesmen, in terms of the public\u2019s respect for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a76d6f53e72b43a19e40a9ba6dfb09f5\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Not as much as they were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373f0ab2325d483e936c5995f7358b5e\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is true. My colleague John Carter makes an interesting interjection. The public\u2019s respect for them is not quite as much as it used to be. I think the police need to be ever-vigilant and on guard. But let me tell members that any slippage we might witness in police standards, ethics, behaviours, and so on will be multiplied tenfold if every man and his dog can run an enforcement agency and issue infringement notices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EA gleeful look will come across the eyes of some local authorities\u2014revenue, revenue, revenue! They cannot pull back on the rates lever, because they just cannot get any more blood out of some stones. For example, some elderly people who live in Bucklands Beach, in my electorate, now pay rates of $5,000 per annum for a small cottage\u2014what used to be a beach house. Members who can remember back as far as I can will recall that Bucklands Beach was a holiday location for people who lived in Auckland. It was a long drive out to Bucklands Beach. Actually, since road congestion has got as bad as it is now, it takes as long to get to Bucklands Beach as it used to back when there were no roads. We often set out in the afternoon, in the hope that we will make it there. But these people, who have lived in a little crib for some time, are paying unbelievable rates. Now, of course, we will have local authorities saying: \u201CWell, we pretty much can\u2019t squeeze much harder on the rates lever. How about we start a fantastic little revenue job here, with infringement notices being given out left, right, and centre for all sorts of things?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI admit there are some limits to Part 8, but I say to the Minister of Local Government that I am always nervous about thin ends of wedges. What will happen the moment we give local authorities, as we do here\u2014public road controlling authorities\u2014this power? The Labour Government keeps saying that it is looking forward to one day having private participation in our roading. So are we, but it does not look like it is going to happen. What about a private roading authority? What will happen if we do what Tony Blair\u2019s Government has done in the UK? It let Macquarie Bank go ahead and build the M6 toll road in Birmingham. It is completely privately owned and privately built. If we are to let public road controlling authorities have an enforcement role on public roading, why do we not say in this legislation that if a road is built by a private company with its own money, it will have the right to enforce standards in road safety, lane controls, and management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E The reason, of course, is that we would never allow that. Even the National Party\u2014even me from the right-wing end of the National Party\u2014would not allow a private company to have an infringement enforcement\u2014[Interruption] Oh yes, I am. I am a good old right-wing Tory. Even I would not want private companies having their own little police force out there, running around and issuing infringement notices. So private road controlling authorities are not included in this part. Public road controlling authorities are, but they should not be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ETransit\u2019s behaviour in recent years has been nothing short of disgusting, in a whole range of areas. Road control is the one thing I would not task Transit with right now, based on its inability to do even its core function, which is to build roads. Its inability to do even its core function of building roads is so legendary now that I would not want Transit to become an infringement-issuing police force in its own right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ENational is very, very opposed to Part 8. I am going to get very confused later, because I think National will support the bill, but, without doubt, we will be voting against Part 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d8df79868354f588436d3c54e77011b\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: It will be on the basis of Hansard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ac2a49816e4b949d7f8abcbbd6c54f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: All right; it will be on the basis of Hansard. Well, at least we will have on record, so that the good motorists out there, the public of New Zealand, will know, that while National has any fire in its belly at all on this matter, it does not want to see anybody other than the New Zealand Police have control of this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4eb58c039ac4f4ca98161545d9b57fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4eb58c039ac4f4ca98161545d9b57fc\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E For the sake of the Hansard, and so that we have the record very clear when someone wants to go back and have a look at what was said, I tell the Committee that National opposes Part 8 of this Local Government Law Reform Bill. I want to make that very clear, because there is a real possibility that because of the changes that have been made to the microchipping provisions, National might support the third reading. That does not mean to say that we support all of the bill. Certainly, we do not support a good number of parts. I want to make that very clear. For anyone looking in the Hansard record, I say that National does not support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b78354f824d34d35ad0bfc72ed2c0983\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to support this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc731f05a9ef4e1fa0dcd021417e73ea\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry\u2014National does not support this part. I will correct it in the Hansard. It will be OK. It will read all right when I get the Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI want to take us back to 1998, when the previous member who spoke, my good friend and colleague Maurice Williamson, was the Minister of Transport. He actually brought this amendment through. It was never intended to give authorities other than the New Zealand Police the right to issue infringement notices. That was never the intention of the bill. If anybody in this House\u2014or, indeed, in the general public\u2014is interested, they can go and look at the Hansard. The whole purpose was to allow Transit New Zealand to set up some bus lanes, and some freeways for buses and passenger transport, etc. But infringements by people were the responsibility of the police. Members can go back and have a look at that provision. What happened, of course, was that some local authorities thought that because they had been given that responsibility, it had to mean they were in charge. So away they went. They started thinking that they were enforcement agencies, and that they would issue a ticket or two\u2014they would start to do this and that. But Transit came along and said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb68aaf480b544f5a09919d9be1d9f11\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Show them you\u2019re like Rick Barker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec35d73e916e436cbb25816bf261343a\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014it must be the snow! Transit came along and said that if local authorities could do that, so could they. So away went Transit and had a jolly old time until somebody said: \u201CHang on a minute; where\u2019s your authority?\u201D Transit said it did not have any, and so it stopped doing it. But then Transit came to the Minister of Local Government and said that it had been in the habit of doing it, and that it actually needed to do it. So the Minister, instead of going back to the history and seeing what was intended and, more important, what was needed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229994670b0d40453e9e1da69c91938c80\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: He was disgruntled\u2014under pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f2e950165f44cb84ee1478a0f68c8a\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no. He just followed his old rule of giving more to local government at more cost to ratepayers. You know, it was the silly attitude of just transferring responsibilities from central to local government. It was a small chink, a small step, but it was the thin end of the wedge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe people of New Zealand need to know that what is happening now is that the Labour Government is putting in place something that was never intended in the original legislation. I say to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Mark Burton, that if he is uncertain about that, he should go back and have a look at the history of the legislation. I have read it. I actually remember putting the bill through. In fact, I remember putting a number of bills through. There was something to do with water at some stage, a bit earlier on, when the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3c8205bbe74b9ebbf288d0af87b9b0\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: Maritime transport, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286456ddf50bc4f169aaff7dfa845ace0\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Is that what it was called? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da23432016fe47a19c980e2a3d7ab889\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m still getting counselling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e475f764c67d40c19db2d61abdeb3833\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The member thinks he is! The point is that in the history of this bill, it was never intended that anyone other than the New Zealand Police should have the authority to issue infringement notices. But this Government is now putting that responsibility on to somebody else, and that is nuts. [Interruption] Well, it is not even an issue that would worry my mother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EWhat would worry my mother is the fact that giving Transit New Zealand anything to do, at all, would be the problem\u2014because it sure as hell cannot build roads. It sure as hell cannot do anything, at all. So why should we expect it to be able to issue tickets properly? It cannot, it should not\u2014but it has been doing it illegally. Now the Government wants to tidy up the situation, but the Government should stop. The best thing it could do is go back to Transit New Zealand and start getting it working and carrying out its core responsibility\u2014tidying up the congestion in Auckland would be a good start. So would tidying up the congestion in Wellington, in Christchurch, and in other places\u2014[Interruption] Whangarei\u2014can members believe that in Whangarei there are traffic jams now? We have cars, and people have started to drive them\u2014and it is nuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00227cf17b63c4644219a925b1bb4206ca4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cf17b63c4644219a925b1bb4206ca4e\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I feel inspired by my two colleagues Mr Williamson and Mr Carter. I must say some things about the Local Government Law Reform Bill as well. After days and days spent fighting the evils of certain elements of this legislation, I have to say this part is worse than the one on dog chipping. This is seriously bad, for all sorts of reasons, and my colleagues have outlined some of them. There has been concern about the mechanism of providing the option of collecting fines to others than the police, and I will give members a couple of examples. The select committee received submissions about this. Someone said they had 3 years of fines, they had actually been doing this, and they needed to revalidate backwards in case someone came along and wanted their fine back. So they have been involved, ultra vires, in the collection of money. What is this about? In places like Auckland where\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255478200c62c4238a3387426249df70f\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Lucky there\u2019s someone listening tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264978c17a8184119aeb215cce485ee49\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Lucky Auckland, where everybody wants to be in their cars, has bus lanes and people can drive on a bus lane. They are not supposed to, but what is done with them if they do? The local authority says it wants to have the right to impose fines. It wants to have the responsibility for it. There may be a car lane that requires a car to have passengers before it can be used. If someone drives in that lane alone or with a blow-up dummy in the car\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694bb07415884fe1b25a3ac5339324d4\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f0665e57f8346c1ab1740a6d78590d8\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: That would be for the purposes of looking as if there is a passenger, I say to Mr Hughes. In that case, an offence would be committed. [Interruption] I ask members to settle down. The question is not whether there should be specific-purpose lanes; it is who gets to police those who offend. Let me state again that there is an issue of concern about this being a \u201Cclick the ticket\u201D provision. Section (3A), inserted by clause 71, provides that the local authority can go to the Minister and say that not only is it policing, but it deserves the right to retain a portion of the fine. We say that is the thin end of the wedge, and we have some significant concerns about it. National, in its minority report, sets out quite clearly that we think this is inappropriate. We think the people who should do the policing are the police, and that neither local authorities nor Transit New Zealand should become enforcement agencies. We make that point quite clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EAnother issue I wish to raise here that makes it a little more acceptable is that the provisions in Part 8 are locked in only until 30 June 2009, because there is to be a review of the Transport Act 1962. So that review should enable us to look at the whole issue. Nevertheless the principle that we stand on is that it should be only the police who do the enforcing. The points that the Hon Maurice Williamson made about private roads and a whole lot of other arrangements are not where we want to be going. The issue is quite clear. It is a matter of principle, and there is an opportunity for people who are given enforcement jobs outside of the police to overstep the mark. There are no monitoring provisions outlined\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1627acce6274b38895ec8fc8b8bc873\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: What about those private security firms doing the minding for the police now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d3a9d388e34cf8b79d9665c9f52283\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. There are no provisions in this bill that say if they break the laws we will do X. There is no audit process; there is nothing. This is a hugely dangerous provision and we will certainly be voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u0022f232561b6517436fb58342add3d343fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f232561b6517436fb58342add3d343fd\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I can assure those who are listening that at no stage did the Wellington City Council want to have its own traffic department\u2014certainly not while I was the mayor. At no stage did we have a group of people wanting to put on uniforms and go marching through the streets, catching people out on traffic lanes and issuing them tickets. I would suggest to members, though, that the council did have some initiatives that made a difference. We put people on the streets who looked after the safety aspects of the city, because we felt that there was a shortage of people keeping an eye on the crime scene. But at the end of the day there was no desire for us to have a traffic department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EIt became very clear through the submission process in the Local Government and Environment Committee that the enforcement issue has to be addressed. I remember asking the Ministry of Transport officials whether, if this bill were passed by the House, councils could retrospectively challenge and ticket people whom they had captured on some infringements. If I am right, the officials made it clear that there was no chance of this bill bringing in a retrospective ability to charge those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EIt is quite clear that areas like the North Shore have issues to deal with. The North Shore has a problem with its bus lanes; that is quite clear. The mayor made a presentation to the select committee and made it clear to us that people are abusing the bus lanes. Cars are using the bus lanes, and they should not do that. He also made it clear to the select committee that the enforcement of those lanes made a difference, and did have an impact on how many people actually broke the law. He made it clear also that his ability to issue infringement notices has made a difference. When asked, though, he did acknowledge that the police resource shortage is one of the reasons why the council wants the ability to issue tickets. It is a pity to find, yet again, that where there is a central government problem with resourcing, local government feels that it has to step up and fill the gap. We see in this legislation the way local government wanted to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EWe in the National Party do not want to see local authorities given the ability to issue infringement notices. We believe that such an ability would have the potential to grow. I note that among the number of councillors who made submissions, a couple of councillors wanted to be able to issue infringement notices on traffic lights. They wanted their officers to be able to stand on corners and capture cars going through traffic lights. I suggest that that is, if you like, phase two of the opportunity this legislation provides. I would not mind if the Minister made a comment on that\u2014it was an actual submission to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EWith those types of submissions coming through the process, the Minister should understand the National Party\u2019s concern as to where this will end. Before we know it, the council officers standing at the traffic lights, capturing cars going through red lights, and writing down licence plate numbers would want to have cars so that they could follow offenders in case they had not written the numbers down correctly\u2014and they could capture offenders when they parked. So we might well have little city council cars running around operating as enforcement cars. Obviously, I am taking the idea a lot further than the Minister or I would ever want to see it taken, but my point is that when we open a door in situations like this, we become concerned as to how far that door can be opened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EI have real sympathy for those who made submissions to the select committee. They have a problem. In this case, their bus lanes\u2014Transit lanes or whatever we call them\u2014are being abused. I do not believe that giving councils the authority to dish out infringement notices is the answer. I believe that this is an issue for central government, its resourcing of police, and its prioritisation to put councils in a position where they can handle the problem in a much better way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022770eb407e9d9450188594e073d42306c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022770eb407e9d9450188594e073d42306c\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Listening to my colleague Mark Blumsky speak has prompted me to take another call. He has brought to my mind an issue that has not been covered. I want to put it in this context. What we are doing now is to give local authorities and Transit the ability to issue infringement notices. Earlier we had a debate on the Government\u2019s proposals to change the laws around dog control. It says not enough dogs are registered, and it wants to bring in a microchipping regime because local government is having trouble in policing dogs. That is the Government\u2019s rationale for that measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe question that comes to mind is why the Government thinks local government will be able to do any better in policing traffic infringements than it does in dog control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022206a64950e094709ab4455bac60849b3\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: Microchip the drivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022970929d1388c491a8feddae4b5c0c6b2\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to hang on. We will get to how the Government may manage that issue in a minute, and I ask the member not to give my story away. Twenty percent or 30 percent of the dogs in this country are not registered. The Government has said that local government cannot cope and is not dealing with the matter properly\u2014it has all the laws, but the system is still not working\u2014so it will introduce microchipping. Fortunately, we have managed to stymie that a bit, by managing to get the bill amended so that farm dogs do not have to be microchipped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4f344bacde4941b8fe2d0ff41b3559\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Working dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d74b58f7a34584add5a2aab7133216\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Farm working dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296eacbddc61649e1beabe9e5174350e1\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: My chihuahua\u2019s a working dog.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e30e7417922943bb94f197e4fb4c1c9d\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Of course\u2014absolutely. Lots of dogs work. When we walk down the street, we can see them working all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022905a224543e34f1d92b7ef8b90fe7087\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: Winston is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6273f58010d4a089c37df6c943a8cab\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Winston works\u2014Winston works a lot, actually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe point is this: where does it logically take us if local authorities\u2014organisations throughout the country\u2014cannot do the job we have imposed on them? Where do we go next if we tell them to issue infringement notices, and they come back and say they are having trouble in enforcing them? What is the next logical step? The next thing that will happen is that it will be decided the best thing we can do is to microchip buses. That will be the next thing we debate in Parliament. Obviously, if the Government cannot microchip the dogs and wants to be consistent, the next thing it will do is to say that we do not know who drove a particular bus, so we had better microchip drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EWhere do we go to from there? The next thing is that instead of having drivers and passengers, we will have blow-up dolls and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fd8d9732aad421998b9f34e889ef347\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: Are those working bus drivers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c38a2822ba16445d8b1decb36640c48d\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: That is the point. Then we will have a debate on whether the drivers are working bus drivers, urban bus drivers, or rural bus drivers, and whether they have to be microchipped in the country. Where do we go next? What happens if an urban bus driver is microchipped but goes to the country? Do we take the chip out? What logically follows? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe point is that what we are doing is silly. We can make this whole debate stupid. What I have just said is silly, because the problem we are talking about is that the Government is doing something jolly silly. It is not focusing on where responsibility should lie, which is with the police. If the police have a problem with regard to administering infringement notices, then they should be given more resources. If that is the issue, we should make sure that the authority with the responsibility for the job can do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EWe should not pass the buck to local government. The Government is already continually moving a stream of responsibilities to local government, and local government is finally starting to wake up and say it does not like all the stuff the Government is shifting to it. In fact, the Minister in the chair, the Hon Mark Burton, is himself\u2014and my colleague will talk more about this\u2014starting to acknowledge that fact, yet tonight he supports the passing of this bill. It was never intended in the original legislation to allow local government and Transit to have this responsibility. But the Minister happily says that we should we should pass it over to local government. Rates rebates, prostitution law reform, building controls, and anything we can think of are shifted away from central government, so that the Government cannot be blamed for them, and are handed over to ratepayers and local government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that the National Party opposes this measure. We oppose it because it was never intended and because it is just another compliance cost\u2014an unnecessary burden on local government. We do not support it and we will vote against this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002299c280ebc2614787b2e7d6f82181749d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 8 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 8 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002255335b56e5164751a19d4b5fcd77f245\u0022\u003ESchedule 1AA\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000772\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to schedule 1AA be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000773\u0022\u003Eto omit the item relating to section 41A(3) in new schedule 1.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000774\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ae150f796b4038a1b22c495cfde7bf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment in the name of Eric Roy to schedule 1AA is out of order, because it is the same as the previous amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of the Hon Mark Burton to schedule 1AA be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003Eto omit from the first column in new schedule 1 the expression \u201C36A(5)\u201D, and substitute the expression \u201C36A(6)\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003Eto omit from the item relating to section 36A(5) in the second column of new schedule 1 the words \u201Cdangerous or menacing\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225fc6889237704a9d861b19f0d878b1dc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2075addfd2a46e1b9f97e3c872e2537\u0022\u003ESchedule 1AA as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002263474f6ddb794f42b9c36d0bccd792ab\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a055e9a56d8b4a06b658bf601d4293ff\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u002214a7dc5e6013448ba99eef044b678c5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214a7dc5e6013448ba99eef044b678c5b\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the title. I want to make the point that tonight in this Parliament, for the first time in 7 or 8 years, we have actually had a victory for common sense. Sadly, it is a partial victory, but it is a victory, nevertheless. I am proud and excited that the National team\u2014David Carter, Eric Roy, Mark Blumsky, and a whole number of different people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea00cc2d5f8245b7a38dbecfa9a516b9\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t remember her name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022404397fd99e24726a00c58f7393f9dbe\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Whose name? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022691431b548cd4cae9456456fe9ab5551\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That woman behind you. He\u2019s thinking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226754f852226d4660b07d21a7e8c49997\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a woman\u2014the member needs to go and clean his glasses and get his hair coloured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the National team, with the support of other parties in this House, can proudly stand up tonight and say we have had a victory for common sense. What is just as good is that it is a huge political disaster for the Labour Government, and particularly for Jim Anderton. He stood up there and said he was going to back the farmers. He said he was their man. He said he would speak up for them. And then he came down here and voted with the Government, and got riled because there was common sense amongst enough of the parties in this Parliament to defeat the Government tonight. I have to say that it shows a huge loss of faith in the Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI also make the point, having been a former whip\u2014as was Mark Burton, the Minister in the chair\u2014that the whips in the Labour Government at the moment, Tim Barnett and Darren Hughes, should be feeling absolutely ashamed of themselves. They had absolutely no idea of what was going on when the vote was being taken. They did not know. Their job as whips should come under close scrutiny, because they should have been advising the Prime Minister that this bill, which amended and changed dog microchipping laws, was at risk. They did not say anything, because they did not know anything. They got caught\u2014I was going to say \u201Cwith their pants down\u201D, but that is probably not appropriate. Nevertheless, they got caught out. The fact is that, as whips, they failed their Government, their Prime Minister, and their team. They let their side down, and they should be damn well ashamed of themselves. They should be taken to the cleaners and whipped until such stage as they are out of their job, quite honestly. It is an absolute disgrace. [Interruption] I do not know about their being microchipped; we want to lose them, not keep them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe fact is that this has been a great victory for National tonight. This team over here has worked so well to make sure it happened. We worked closely with the other parties to make sure it happened, and we listened to the voters out there and to the people who were interested. At the end of the day, we have come up with, and given them, what they wanted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, as hard as we tried, we only managed to get working dogs exempted from having to be microchipped. The fact is that urban dogs will still have to be microchipped\u2014the little chihuahuas\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5d16aa6fa56438f9dff2909366ee4f3\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll find jobs for those urban dogs; they\u2019ll all end up working dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264bd7c8ece934f4c9f9e134d19d106e9\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they could all end up being working dogs, although I am not sure what sorts of thing a chihuahua can round up, but I am sure there is something\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257a05443f66e47eb8d8d5aaffd7557e3\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Look at Winston. Look at what he can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ace2c60ec0514448a866328c64122a84\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, can Winston Peters round anything up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222512d604dcac4d8ab8e107fa8f6e4870\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375e567f1515408c8ba48ab432b22c43\u0022\u003EJOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there we go. The point is that lots of urban voters will be really dissatisfied now that their rural counterparts do not have to microchip their dogs. But urban dog owners will have to front up and cough up the money it will cost in consequence of having to have their dogs microchipped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe point is that the Government has lost out politically, and I have to say again that it is a great victory for common sense tonight. I am proud to be part of the National Party and to be one of the people on this side of the Chamber who actually decided to vote on common-sense lines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E We need to address two or three other things in this bill, including the long-term council community plans. Those plans are costing local government and ratepayers far too much money. The way in which they are being administered and delivered, as a consequence of this Labour Government, is just unacceptable. The Minister should be ashamed of himself for imposing those sorts of costs on local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb136ca95f134491aaa3787c1dad5be6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb136ca95f134491aaa3787c1dad5be6\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to follow on from my colleague John Carter, who also played an important role in what has occurred in the Committee tonight. He was extolling the rest of the team, but we should acknowledge him, too. I also acknowledge the Greens. The Greens came into the debate on microchipping from a point of principle that I totally agreed with\u2014that microchipping is nonsense and we ought to get rid of it per se. But the Greens, instead of taking an intransigent position when at the 11th hour it looked like there would be no progress, said: \u201CLet\u2019s go for a small gain.\u201D\u2014at least some of their members said that. I acknowledge the way in which those Green members must have discussed that and come to a decision. The Greens\u2019 principle was right: microchipping is nuts and we should have defeated it. That is the position that the Greens took, and I understand that. I also acknowledge and place on record the movement that some of the Green members made in order to make some progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThis legislation is similar to that of an omnibus bill. It deals with a whole lot of things. Largely, microchipping of dogs has been the area about which there has been debate. That is because the Government\u2019s position on dog microchipping has been symbolic of a lot of errors it has made in terms of local authorities, costs, and prescriptive rules that have applied difficulties to local authorities. So microchipping is perhaps not the biggest cost issue out there, but it is one that is synonymous with an infringement on cost and on people\u2019s rights. More significantly, microchipping will not do a jolly thing to stop the problem of dogs biting people and, particularly, children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EIn seeing this as a summary debate I make the following point. The Hon Damien O\u2019Connor made a point that I totally agree with. He said we ought to be shooting or destroying dogs that bite people. He was not to know that I had a Supplementary Order Paper that proposed we should do precisely that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737cc59e65934ea184408d3a423daa50\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: We do that now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022505e22d6877345ddb22d852487d3a49b\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: It would be a mandatory requirement for any dog that bit a child to be destroyed\u2014no ifs, no buts, no maybes. If Lianne Dalziel is so enthusiastic about that provision, why did she not vote in favour of my Supplementary Order Paper? The attack on Carolina Anderson was a tragedy, and we should be doing something about it. But it worries me that after 2 days of debate and several days of hearing submissions in the select committee we have not come up with a solution that deals with dogs that savage children\u2014we have not done that, as a Parliament. In that respect the Government must take some responsibility. It has frittered around with a microchipping bill that will not do anything to resolve the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EIn the debates earlier on, I made a point that I want to make again. On 1 July we will start microchipping those dogs that are registered from 1 July. The life of a dog is variable. I gave examples of dogs I have had and owned that have reached 19 years of age. I currently have a dog that is 17. In the year 2025 there will still be dogs that are not microchipped in the urban area, even if we get 100 percent compliance. I have to ask how realistic it is to say this will be a tool of effectiveness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe had a lot of examples of the efficacy of the microchip itself. People have a completely false understanding of what this is about. What we do to cattle beasts or sheep is put a transponder on their eartags. It is about the size of a thimble or a 20c piece; it is something that has a bit of substance, and, yes, it can be read from a distance. But what are the chances of finding and reading a microchip that is the size of a grain of rice\u20147 millimetres by 1.5 millimetres\u2014and buried under the thick skin on a large rough of some dog? The Local Government and Environment Committee heard that some of the microchips are not reliable and do not last very long, at all. Those illustrations were given in the select committee, yet the Government forged ahead. So the microchipping of dogs was a principle around this local government law reform that just said that much of what this Government has done in loading costs and prescriptive behaviour on to local authorities is inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf9173f6ad0a4f84ba6d2dc41d898403\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf9173f6ad0a4f84ba6d2dc41d898403\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I often use Garrick Tremain\u2019s cartoons as a guiding mentor in life. I find them to be particularly insightful about what is going on in the world of politics. One of the best cartoons I have ever seen that pertains to this legislation depicted an old farm ute driving along the road with three dogs on the back. The first dog says: \u201CWe\u2019re off to town to get microchipped, so that if we ever bite the kids in the town, they\u2019ll know who we are.\u201D, the second dog asks: \u201CBut when do we ever go to town?\u201D, and the third dog says: \u201CWe go there to get microchipped.\u201D That is how crazy this legislation was for working farm dogs that do not ever go to town, other than to get microchipped\u2014in the process of which they might jump off the ute, bite a kid, and then get blamed for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI am delighted that some common sense has prevailed in this Chamber tonight. It is very unusual for that happen in this place, but it has happened tonight. We at least have a small victory. I do not understand for the life of me why Labour Ministers were hanging out so strongly to include all dogs in the microchipping provisions of the bill when it was absolute stupidity to have farm dogs included in the microchipping process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caca4e7f0d8f4424be6f7fa110d39737\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the member vote for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eaa617aac454193a9af249b7b7ca2b3\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I did not vote for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf72a4bf93a42538561a2badd9d1c4f\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b558bbd72d94a8a907277c71a5b0d08\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, I did not vote for it, at all. I am one of those who believes that microchipping will do nothing for the safety of anybody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EI found that out when I learnt that, in order to read the microchip, the dog officer cannot just get the scanner, stand 20 or 30 metres back, ask what the dog\u2019s number is, and then maybe push press a button and the dog explodes. No, the dog control officer has to hold the dog down and rub the scanner over the fur until he or she can find the chip, because the chip\u2014as the vets told us\u2014can move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E The vet says: \u201CNice pooch, nice pooch; let me find your chip.\u201D This is a dog who has just mauled some kid in the park, ripped pieces off his or her flesh, and has blood dripping from its mouth. I can see an ordinary dog control officer saying: \u201COh, yippee! I can chase another savage, savage, vicious, beastly dog across the park, hold it down, get out my wand, scan over its fur, and try to find its chip.\u201D How stupid! No one believes that will protect children like Carolina Anderson\u2014no one. Absolutely not! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EA number of other measures could be taken that would make at least a small inroad. But I say to the Government that most legislation such as this covers law-abiding citizens, who would comply. They would all trundle off to the vet, pay their $100, and do everything they are supposed to. But it is not their dogs that are the problem. Some vicious, half-breed mongrel dog that has been kicked, beaten, whipped with a chain, badly fed, and is sitting at some Mongrel Mob headquarters will be the dog that goes out and does the attacking. And guess what? Members of the Mongrel Mob will not even know this legislation has been passed, let alone do anything about microchipping their dogs. So what are all the law-abiding citizens out there doing spending their $100? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003ENo wonder the Veterinary Association backed this bill. Self-interest is alive and well. The Veterinary Association thought this legislation was a good idea. Why? The reason is that every dog represents $100 for vets. How good a deal is that? Laying aside all personal and private interests\u2014not on your life! But, like the gun laws and a whole range of other laws, this legislation covers the 99 percent of people who are law-abiding and who get all the costs and all the impost. And I am yet to hear one member of the Government say how a vicious, wild beast running through the bushes in the parks of Auckland after having mauled a little girl will be stopped or how that problem will be fixed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe first question is to ask how this legislation will stop another Carolina Anderson incident. We all know that was dreadful. We all feel badly for that family and for that girl, and we would love to do things about it. I do not think there is a member in this Chamber who would not love to do things that would prevent that sort of attack from happening again. But I say again that not one thing in this bill\u2014especially the microchipping side of it\u2014would ever, ever have prevented it. So now Cabinet\u2019s No. 3, Jim Anderton, who made a promise to farmers\u2014\u201CDo you not understand where No. 3 is relative to No. 18?\u201D\u2014then comes along, buckles to pressure, and votes for it. He has actually had it completely gazumped. Government members must be highly embarrassed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdb9bf50186d4680b873bbc1aed79cb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdb9bf50186d4680b873bbc1aed79cb0\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E This afternoon Parliament is certainly creating a dog\u2019s breakfast. We are passing a law that is unenforceable. We have been told by council dog control officers that distinguishing between farm dogs, working dogs, and other dogs simply will not be feasible. I predict that this issue will be back here before very long, and Parliament will be revisiting what has happened today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI certainly hope that is so, and I imagine that is why four of my colleagues decided in the end to support the amendment to exempt farm dogs, even though none of us actually believes we should have exemptions for one category of dog and not for others. The only principled position here is that either microchipping will save children\u2019s lives and therefore every dog should be microchipped, or microchipping will not save children\u2019s lives and no dog should be microchipped, except for those dogs that have been classified as menacing or dangerous. One can make a case for microchipping them; such dogs have not yet done enough to deserve to be shot, but they are on notice and they need to be watched.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThat is what the Green Party tried to achieve with a member\u2019s bill, which failed by one vote. That is what we did achieve in the Local Government and Environment Committee with an amendment, which then got knocked out in the House. That is what we tried to achieve throughout the debate on the Committee stage of this bill. Only when all of those options had been exhausted and there was no possibility of knocking out microchipping for all harmless dogs did four of my colleagues decide they would go with the amendment to exempt farm dogs. It was not because they thought it was a good idea\u2014one could argue that it was because they thought half a loaf was better than none\u2014but, mainly, I believe, because they thought it would make the law unworkable, and we would then have another chance to knock out microchipping for other dogs, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EWe know that having a microchip will not prevent a dog from savaging a child. We know that it will not make it any easier to find out what dog savaged the child. If people see the dog do it, they know the dog; if they do not see the dog do it, the fact that it has a microchip in it will not help to identify it. It is not a locator beacon; it will not help people find the dog. We know that we cannot distinguish between farm dogs and other dogs. But it seemed to have become an article of faith with some that once this legislation had got as far as this, it had to be driven through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EIt was possible for four of my colleagues to decide to vote differently from Metiria and myself because in the Green Party, if a matter is not a policy that has been determined by the party and that members signed up to when they came here, then after a debate in caucus we are free to disagree. That is what has happened today. I do not agree with my four colleagues, but I absolutely uphold their right to vote in the way they did this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI fear that that provision may make things more difficult for urban dog owners, because the strongest lobby group against microchipping has now been silenced. I challenge Federated Farmers to join with urban dog owners to continue to oppose this legislation, rather than their just feeling relief that they are out of jail, and never mind anybody else. However, I predict that the legislation will be back here. It is bad law, and the Greens have done what we can. [Interruption] Yes, if United Future and New Zealand First had been prepared to listen to the facts, maybe we would have had a different outcome. But this is where we are, and we have done our best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b98bd4d4c46344f7a3e70717e12e02be\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b7ebc51d1ad42c39308c9f592f84328\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000825\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the Dog Control Amendment Bill, the Litter Amendment Bill, the Local Electoral Amendment Bill, the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill, the Local Government Act 1974 Amendment Bill, the Local Government (Rating) Amendment Bill, the Rates Rebate Amendment Bill, and the Land Transport Amendment Bill (No 2), pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 42.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000826\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203379de2715143ecbfa569941f8b499d\u0022\u003EHistoric Places Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ed6dc851122442caa6fce9ce9d50248\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000829\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 13 June.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228cbb5803353642db94f87f0bbc8170ec\u0022\u003EPart 2  Transitional provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002225ffcd63d1bc45c6bb3b71dc8fd20ce6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225ffcd63d1bc45c6bb3b71dc8fd20ce6\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, given that you are due to report progress in a couple of minutes, I seek leave for you to report progress now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51b562c1b5640cd9e6ec346758cdab5\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has sought leave. Is that agreed to? It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Local Government Law Reform Bill with amendment, and that the Committee had divided it into eight bills, and progress on the Historic Places Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9 56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006062184ae8bcd0a7542bb9f6aeb5184af2dc4000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"