"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a99dbe95c7b54db0be4880c964481a54\u0022\u003EThursday, 31 August 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a5aec6150224063af5dedb8e9dc6a46\u0022\u003EThursday, 31 August 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022564303b02b284448a5ad320b30f79e06\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ac8952e446a45cdb7cdd4a7038afbd6\u0022\u003ELord Cooke of Thorndon\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002211258f83a35d4d5d9822a5877c1179f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211258f83a35d4d5d9822a5877c1179f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this House place on record its appreciation of the long and distinguished service in the law of the late Rt Hon the Lord Cooke of Thorndon ONZ, KBE, PC, including as President of the Court of Appeal and as a member of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and the House of Lords, and that the House express its condolences to his family and former colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d27da4b216f545fbbdbfd083f1c4ad3e\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c425a1d507a40869d303f78f071e109\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa80b9e72c04cdcaf26be15b60cec4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa80b9e72c04cdcaf26be15b60cec4f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week in the House priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, the Child Support Amendment Bill (No 4), and the Standards and Conformance Bill. Wednesday is a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00229fece2a2671b4cd4b453a8978c0ab021\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fece2a2671b4cd4b453a8978c0ab021\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E Could the Leader of the House indicate whether he intends to introduce validating or retrospective legislation on any subject matter during the course of this parliamentary session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00228dad7f40871d49bcb3560eb4bd747d70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dad7f40871d49bcb3560eb4bd747d70\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I have no idea what the courts may come up with at any time within the next few weeks; if the member is referring to another matter, we have yet to see a report from the Auditor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7bd66b03da34286ad83a38b1ff96d9d\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f49fc1a4b59488e8bdfc58979c9efd4\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e0213ef92ad4a47ae457753c392442d\u0022\u003ESpeech from the Throne\u2014Political Integrity of Parliament and Electoral Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E1. Dr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition) on behalf of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022075c0fa0945a41008e7c190b5c872d1b\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by the statement in the Speech from the Throne in 1999 that her Government would \u201Crestore public confidence in the political integrity of Parliament and the electoral process\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2387076eedd4a92874a1385c3df8fb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2387076eedd4a92874a1385c3df8fb2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, by keeping our promises, unlike National, which constantly betrayed the electorate and the party\u2019s promises throughout the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac9a3fc2254413087d6ede6a82c641e\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House how we can see the decision of the police to investigate the Ingram report allegations against Taito Phillip Field as anything other than a massive vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister\u2019s handling of this entire saga, given that she has spent the last 6 weeks telling the House that no further action was required?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa0758ebaf4b4bb49259dfa6241226d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Prime Minister has consistently said that people with any allegations and evidence should go to the police, that is entirely untrue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227343f2ea4b48407e9522f707646440eb\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen the comments made by Andrew Little, national secretary of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, who stated that MPs are in a position of integrity and trust, and that Taito Phillip Field should resign; what is her response to that vote of no confidence in her Government\u2019s handling of the Field saga from someone who heads a Labour-affiliated union?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cb89af3b2454cea902b51e295eddc66\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I would refer Mr Little to comments made on yesterday morning\u2019s radio programme, where it was said: \u201CI think even for Mr Field\u2019s sake it is not fair that he is hounded out of Parliament on the basis of baseless allegations.\u201D That comment was made, of course, by the Leader of the Opposition. Let us await the outcome of the police inquiry, and if charges are laid let us await the outcome of the judicial process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdda60327d5f49329181475f37f8af16\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: They are not baseless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e099482415b4b8498681c1e7447b036\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike those made against Dr Nick Smith, who was found guilty of contempt and was applauded by his colleagues when he came into the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6cc16b74b8d4b569e020d4e8638581b\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Prime Minister\u2019s response to comments made by Hola Taue, the Labour Party Pacific Island vice-president, who also thinks Taito Phillip Field should resign as an MP because: \u201CIt\u2019s a big conflict of interest what he has done. He is not available for any of us. He is very stubborn.\u201D; what is her response to that vote of no confidence in the way she has handled this matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d79f41dbc84774a4a937fcb286ae5c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister has consistently said allegations should be taken to the police. The police are now undertaking an inquiry. In a country that believes in the rule of law, that is where matters now rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217792483f4334cedaa3a3cfa03f2ff05\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen today\u2019s Dominion Post editorial, which states: \u201CEvery day that an uncleared Mr Field remains a Labour MP is a reminder that the Labour Party has fallen grievously short of the new standards Miss Clark promised to set when she took office.\u201D; what is her response to that vote of no confidence in the way she has handled the Field affair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac6d4ed8388f4316a76852e65d41ed2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: My response would be that the Dominion Post should remind itself about the rule of law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209443d0eddb14cbe9bc29a9c0db5b7c1\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Did she, any of her Ministers, or any of her staff meet with Police Commissioner Howard Broad when he was in the Beehive this morning; if so, what was the purpose of that meeting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a34a619c4ff54acc9837268fbb60ee16\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister certainly did not; she was in Napier. I would imagine the police commissioner met with the Minister of Police, as he frequently does\u2014as I met with the tertiary education commissioner today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228cd57e1e8ef4853bae19bfe61c062c2\u0022\u003EOral Health\u2014Improvements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b173d9d8062b41a5af47d381a25cc6e1\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What progress has been made in work to improve the oral health of New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00229f9c47260515469da6947949b0ff0b86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f9c47260515469da6947949b0ff0b86\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Last week the Government announced that over $100 million will be invested in a major reform of our public oral health system. The policy includes the revitalisation of the school dental service, and provision of community oral health facilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250ec8d9b25c647d19ca04bfcd162e315\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports about the public discussion on the Government\u2019s oral health policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208fa4d4265924262b66c997702838d65\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen reports that members of the oral health community have been angered by comments from Tony Ryall about the Government\u2019s plan and National\u2019s record on the issue. I have a copy of a letter sent to Mr Ryall from a registered dental therapist reminding him that it was National that foolishly made hundreds of dental nurses redundant, that it was National that nearly destroyed the school dental service, that it was National that closed down dental therapist training, and that it was Labour that moved early in its first term to start repairing the damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289574c1e01dc4ea7b15c06d703f1832a\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: How long does the Minister estimate it will take to fully implement the strategic vision for oral health in New Zealand, and what dental care is accessible to children and teenagers who are missing out in the meantime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f47175e975d495bb7234fd4a4738f08\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I hope the member enjoyed her briefing on the topic this morning. It will, of course, take a number of years to fulfil a strategy as broad as this. However, we are off to an early start; the first business cases will be coming in from district health boards in November of this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0b97e4ba7c0438b848b306319bdd529\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Why does the Government\u2019s press release of 20 August hold National responsible for the worst oral health records for 5-year-olds in Northland since 1990, when today\u2019s 5-year-olds have only ever lived under a Labour minority Government in charge of their dental health; and what will he do about the tragic statistics for M\u0101ori 5-year-olds in Northland today\u2014only 14 percent of whom are cavity-free?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b392bc07e654883a8182f11ceaf8877\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: My predecessor, the Hon Annette King, herself a dental therapist, had restarted a dental therapy school in New Zealand, had staffed it, had the curriculum up, had the funding, and had students in the classroom within 15 months of a change of Government. That is what rapid repair looks like. She then opened a second school, not in Dunedin but in Auckland. Both those schools are now churning out graduates. Finally, we have started to lift the number of dental therapists in this country. It had fallen from 1,000 to 550, and now that we are repairing the damage wrought by National we are building dental facilities so that these new dental therapists can go to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c74cd16c4754a4aaac8ff37f462010b\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Sisters of Compassion, who generously fund a dental clinic for children in the Hutt, expect any Government support any time soon from these initiatives\u2014indeed, from any of the $100 million tag for oral health\u2014giving some help to those who unselfishly help others?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022598399f7544e45328d2e698fe7efbd83\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am afraid I do not know, but I can say that if they are an integral part of the local district health board\u2019s dental health services, they will already be receiving funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d648ec72f34e2c84aaed0ec1a9579c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister standing up in the House today and saying that it will take another couple of years to see any progress in the improving of oral health for young New Zealanders, considering in the last 7 years of the Labour Government there have been one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, and 11 strategies, visions, and reviews, which this Government has done absolutely nothing on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a06c4bffe34aa39b5804e79d32dcb1\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I now get a chance to rehearse the history again, and I will enjoy it. The long and short of it is that there used to be more than a thousand dental therapists in this country, but they got the sack from the previous Government. People stopped going to dental training schools. The schools closed and we ended up with an implosion in the workforce. That needed fixing, and one cannot teach a dental therapist in 3 weeks; it takes 3 years. One cannot open a dental therapy school in 3 weeks; that took 15 months. If the National Government had only kept the dental therapy workforce up\u2014if only it had done that\u2014none of those reports would have needed to be written. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a1adbf1caf04af59e578b0db8960e3d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind members that gestures with hands can be misinterpreted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ad2634ab8640af8f01507b281efb7a\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Oral Health Service Review, released in 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8abafa95b76493fb83792d26a83f0e2\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Review of Publicly Funded Oral Health Care in New Zealand: Final Report, March 2001.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a983b0a040bc4ffb91b6ac17812082b2\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Improving Child Oral Health and Reducing Child Oral Health Inequalities, May 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ad78ccea7a42ebb88340fed46401ba\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the School Dental Services Facilities Discussion Document, September 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ea13485e40f4ed28d7d7383bd78dd92\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Improve Oral Health 2004, edition 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245119f57fd9c4b1ca28a957fba2a9a9b\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Dental Therapy Technical Advisory Group, Ministry of Health, Recruitment and Practice of Dental Therapists, June 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fb9108867be48768c0bdbba878ac136\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the National School Dental Service Review: Final Report, December 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a61360c1b5e40b4b2224b3a2bb3b6b2\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Review of M\u0101ori Child Oral Health Services, December 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262dc2dbb19aa48368d3699234ec6e290\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Business Case Guidelines for Investment in Child and Adolescent Oral Health Services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249eb8b4b0a08484fb95593efd30cc7cd\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Community Oral Health Service: Facility Guideline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205829cc840e74bb692933811bbe175a9\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af7727c58d6a49b090765d3115328a46\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There will be silence during points of order. During the last point of order, there were interruptions from both sides of the House. You are on your last warning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240966092426445baa6ed98193f8282f3\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from Barbara Moreton, registered dental therapist, to Tony Ryall, which states, in part: \u201CAnnette King put in place some very good long-term planning, which has been carried on by Pete Hodgson. When a service has been badly run down over many years, as it was under National, it cannot be fixed overnight.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8c97fe66aab4e6a8ee74605d8819a84\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Unfortunately the Hon Tony Ryall has forgotten one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247baa7ad00224e7cbf7c46c4487879c2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have not called the member. I call Jo Goodhew.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b668cc7f1d44238a9da4e6767ad2f0\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately the Hon Tony Ryall forgot one. I seek leave to table the 36-page latest strategic vision: Good Oral Health, for All, for Life: the Strategic Vision for Oral Health in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec90e670b0e94ead9883910e5525b252\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. I remind members, when they make points of order, that they do not make any other comment but their reference to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ad6edcc73144fd29ccd6aa90461c107\u0022\u003EImmigration Service\u2014Apia Branch Contact with Immigration Intelligence Unit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c49eac32890f4b6eb876b1cbe22a439e\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Is it correct that the manager of the Apia branch of the New Zealand Immigration Service, Mr James Dalmer, contacted the immigration intelligence unit with information about Thai nationals\u2019 involvement with Taito Phillip Field; if so, on how many occasions did that happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002258bb89df0e054cc7b402e187154bbf5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258bb89df0e054cc7b402e187154bbf5a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Associate Minister of Immigration),\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Immigration: Yes, I am advised that there were four occasions on which communication occurred. Of those, three mentioned Mr Field by name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f4352513e164966a0938d320019ed08\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: If, as the Minister has just advised the House, the branch manager in Apia communicated at least four times with the immigration intelligence unit, if Mr Dalmer actually discussed with the manager of the immigration intelligence unit on or about 10 May specific issues involving Thais working without pay on Mr Field\u2019s house in Samoa and being promised work in New Zealand in return, and if all of that is correct, how does he explain that information being withheld from the Associate Minister, Damien O\u2019Connor, if, in fact, it was withheld?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be1fcedc44f4addbfab588e7e576147\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that this was because the information they were dealing with was unconfirmed\u2014that is, there was a possibility it was wrong. I also say to that member again\u2014and I point to the Ingram inquiry\u2014that the Ingram inquiry quite clearly stated that the Associate Minister of Immigration at the time made the decision unaware of the information because it had not been passed on to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc18dee8ba0945fcbd4878e377ba11cd\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Was Noel Ingram QC able to reach a firm conclusion as to whether the Associate Minister, Damien O\u2019Connor, knew of the allegations in relation to Mr Siriwan\u2019s involvement with Mr Field in Samoa prior to his decision to issue a special direction for a work visa for Mr Siriwan, or was Mr Ingram\u2019s conclusion that \u201Creal uncertainty results from the available evidence as to when Mr O\u2019Connor became aware of the allegations in relation to Mr Field.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022108afd0803dd426a8a25b68d21443372\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: In response, I make two points on behalf of the Minister. As I previously told the House, I am advised that the inquiry concludes that the Associate Minister did not have the relevant information at the time he made the decision on the Siriwan case. I refer the member to paragraphs 157 and 158 on pages 49-50 of the Ingram report. Further, Mr Ingram goes on to note in paragraph 179 that the original \u201Cdecision by Mr O\u2019Connor may be regarded as a justifiable exercise of that broad discretionary \u2026 power.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223029ed6ab03f4340bb6bbaa71da284ce\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the \u201Cpossible sequence of events surrounding Mr O\u2019Connor being informed of the allegations\u201D constructed by Mr Ingram required Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s immigration secretary, Ms Nicola Scotland, to forget a logged 5 minute - long phone call at 2.41 p.m. on 9 June from the group manager for service international of the Department of Labour, where he discussed with her whether Mr O\u2019Connor was aware of the information received and all the circumstances involved regarding the Thai nationals in Samoa when he apparently made his decisions, following discussions with Taito Phillip Field\u2014decisions Nicola Scotland knew were still pending\u2014a possible sequence of events requiring her to forget that information, which she knew to be crucial?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226389ba1d96f241eaba60566c6cc20ad5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It has been accepted by the Ingram inquiry that what is most likely to have occurred in this instance is that the Minister\u2019s private secretary was informed but did not pass that information on to the Minister because it was unconfirmed. That is what the Ingram inquiry concluded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b45630773a0d4863aff1315b5d1bb463\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it remotely credible that Ms Nicola Scotland, Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s immigration secretary, would not have passed on the crucial information she received from Mr Tavita, service international group manager, on 9 June, when earlier, on 27 May, compliance officer Murray Gardiner had emailed her directly with information about the goings-on involving Taito Phillip Field in Samoa\u2014Mr Ingram\u2019s possible sequence of events requiring her to have forgotten to pass on that information to Mr O\u2019Connor as well, if she did, in fact, forget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c268984d578d45c1b37ba6e69d47afe2\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: As I have just pointed out to the member, the inquiry accepted that the most likely events to have occurred in this instance are that the Minister\u2019s private secretary was informed but did not pass that information on to the Minister. Those are the findings of the inquiry and of Noel Ingram QC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fffae27bb7040079665c975dbf3d327\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister explain the file note of his Apia branch manager, Mr James Dalmer, that records: \u201CKnowledge of Thai cases\u2014knows that Taito had these people working for him\u2014Damien knew that before he made the decision\u2014tight labour market has been a factor.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220929f356c28b4fa391e8d1b1ef8debdd\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I simply reiterate the findings of Noel Ingram QC, as I have previously stated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022222da363539944dc8f2df645e86ed7ed\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason that Mr James Dalmer, Apia branch manager, told the Ingram inquiry that \u201Chis best recollection is that Ms Scotland stated that Mr O\u2019Connor knew of the information before he made his decision.\u201D because it is the truth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9a3b00065144061b6b1f40748ab1787\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I reiterate my previous answer. The findings are clear in Noel Ingram QC\u2019s inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0c11a68a57147b5ac3c53372db173d9\u0022\u003EVIP Transport Service\u2014Govt3 Programme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c6f736e9e94743ba8c5ab3cb819147\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Ministerial Services: Is she confident that purchase decisions made by her officials in relation to the VIP Transport Service fleet are consistent with the Govt3 programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d89da29004df49518adbeb09fe3c1a14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d89da29004df49518adbeb09fe3c1a14\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House): \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister responsible for Ministerial Services: The Department of Internal Affairs is now taking into account the Govt3 programme in its purchasing planning, and I expect to see this reflected in the make-up of the VIP Transport service fleet over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e985035a8044401916d2986a7c71c2b\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Why are most of the ministerial chauffeur-driven cars Ford Fairlanes and Ford LTDs that are identified on the Government\u2019s own fuelsaver website as among the worst gas guzzlers in the country, using 14.5 litres per 100 kilometres driven?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227327d7ccaec34f5ab4450d1989307a6c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think there is only one LTD left in the fleet now, although I am not sure of that; they are nearly all Ford Fairlanes. These, of course, reflect past purchasing practices. Speaking personally\u2014as myself, not as the Minister responsible for Ministerial Services\u2014I find the Fords uncomfortable and noisy compared with the average 2-litre Japanese saloon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8bba51a2c844577bce5102a72183978\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What message will it send to ordinary Kiwis who are buying smaller cars and making a personal commitment to address peak oil and climate change, when they learn that Crown cars each produce around 6 tonnes per year of carbon dioxide, which is almost three times as much as the most efficient, comfortable five-seaters available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b33fe59123f43fc9658d7d52c147401\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised by the Hon Harry Duynhoven, who is an expert in all these sorts of matters, that the Ford fleet is doing considerably better in actual performance than it is rated for in the information the member refers to. But I shall take this up with the Prime Minister, preferring myself to ride in somewhat smaller cars than a Ford Fairlane. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a898298f2443c4ad991b2d02441d79\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Why were all of these gas guzzlers\u2014the worst ones\u2014purchased since the Government announced the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol, and since the start of the Govt3 programme, launched in 2003?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f67e5984cd4ae3908e6ba9f2abba0a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have not got the numbers. Some of the cars, certainly, have liquefied petroleum gas, and some of the cars in Auckland\u2014it is not so in Wellington, I think\u2014are Holdens, not Fords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff11d461ca0b45c5b7fd07c280b42972\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister commit to ensuring that all future vehicle purchases are in the best 10 percent of those available in New Zealand for fuel efficiency and carbon emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292bc52bd20c14a65be31ad040d7b3e6b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No. I think probably that the notion of using Toyota Echos as the ministerial fleet probably is not the wisest of moves. But I certainly believe that the ministerial fleet operators can look at more efficient vehicles than the ones that have been bought, in some form or another, for I think something like 25 years\u2014since we ceased to use Chryslers at some point in the 1970s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef7903ec16b4efea97af9a873be7b83\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two lots of documents. The first is a print-out from the Government\u2019s fuelsaver website, giving the fuel efficiency of the Fairlanes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec83fdaf481c41a1ae9066b5e6d3c0d7\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: I further seek leave to table a set of specifications for a number of vehicles available in New Zealand at the moment, which do not include the Toyota Echo, and which have fuel efficiencies around 4, 5, and 6 litres per 100 kilometres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b32422bd14c416c823a8730544638dd\u0022\u003EElection Advertising\u2014Chief Electoral Officer\u2019s Advice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225570d66976914b14bec08afc700afe09\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Did the Chief Electoral Officer write to New Zealand Labour Party General Secretary Mike Smith on 2 September 2005 warning him that in his view the costs of the Labour Party pledge card were election expenses under the Electoral Act 1993?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022045e68e6571c412a9cd0a39e7782f6db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022045e68e6571c412a9cd0a39e7782f6db\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E As I said to the member\u2019s colleague in response to question for oral answer No. 5 on Wednesday, 23 August, I am aware of the letter, but I was not a recipient of it and cannot comment on its contents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d854349f133f465fa0da3bf601cca389\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that having received that letter from the Chief Electoral Officer, with its warning about election expenses, the Labour Party then proceeded to spend over $500,000 on advertising in the last 2 weeks of the election campaign, despite the fact that the expenditure took it over the legal limit for election spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282248df4c03949d28bef166dc461e275\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps I could clarify for the member. I am aware of the letter, but I was not a recipient of it and therefore cannot comment on its contents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed2a4599eb840bcbd36343c442db6cd\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What confidence can the New Zealand public have in the laws the Minister is administering to regulate election spending, when the Government of the day ignores the advice of the statutory officer designated by Parliament to enforce the law, then after the election proposes to pass retrospective legislation to validate its illegal actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d6d70297d6c4f2d841eff4fd1d66fc0\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Considerable confidence\u2014given that under the Electoral Act of 1993 the Chief Electoral Officer is responsible for the preparation and conduct of parliamentary elections, and the supervision of candidates\u2019 election expenses and donations. It would be inappropriate for me, under that Act, to comment on what are legal interpretations by the said officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f677c8656e244da9a302718a2403cdc\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister sought advice from the Ministry of Justice about who is right over the issue of the pledge card\u2014advice as to whether it is Helen Clark and Dr Cullen, who believed that it was not an election expense; or advice on the views of the Chief Electoral Officer, the Auditor-General, and the Solicitor-General, that it was an election expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a75a824adee4caf9d930f73192de46b\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Given that I am not a recipient of the correspondence, nor of any correspondence that the Chief Electoral Officer may have had with other political parties such as the National Party about election expenditure, I would not expect to be copied into such correspondence. It is therefore not appropriate for me to comment on a legal interpretation given by the Chief Electoral Officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022217e6e042dce4ecab77c73ebe078079b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: In the Minister\u2019s capacity as Minister of Justice, can he tell the House what credibility there now is in our electoral law when the Government of the day was able to ignore the advice of the Chief Electoral Officer, was then able to slip that past a police investigation, and then come to this House promising to pass legislation to retrospectively validate its actions, and why should any political party now take any notice of the Chief Electoral Officer and the sections of the Act he administers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df9472a49af43358a8f383018e7f79c\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the member is incorrect to assert that I have ministerial responsibility for political party expenditure. I explicitly do not. As to the law, as I have informed the House on previous occasions, I am indeed undertaking a review of the electoral finance regime, focusing on electoral expenses, advertising, and broadcasting, which of course is within the purview of my ministerial responsibility, unlike the expenditure of political parties at the last election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e0c77e02b674f3d98d06631c6ca5400\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us whether he will be the Minister promoting retrospective legislation if it is brought to the House, given that he is the Minister who is responsible for the electoral law that governs election spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282accba3c1fb42d7b4e2179df3bd3c84\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am hardly about to commit to, or otherwise, any legislation on an as yet unproduced report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220819812058e042329de3a45546fb8370\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the following documents, all of which were issued in June 2002, within 3 months of the 2002 election: a letter signed by Bill English, then leader of the National Party, outlining key National Party policies, which is on parliamentary letterhead paper; a pamphlet featuring Mr English, on parliamentary letterhead, on penal policy; a pamphlet from the Leader of the Opposition, on parliamentary letterhead, which deals with penal policy; a pamphlet from Mr English, on parliamentary letterhead, which deals with Treaty of Waitangi claims; a newspaper advertisement featuring Mr English, and with parliamentary letterhead, featuring Treaty of Waitangi claims; and a letter from Mr English\u2014obviously a form letter\u2014on superannuation and related matters, clearly calling for people to vote for the National Party in the 2002 election, also on parliamentary letterhead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221738bcfd618941c3822d298d42ee916b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document from Nielsen Media Research Ltd showing the Labour Party\u2019s expenditure on press advertising in the last 2 weeks before the election in 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb3137a72d514e4d8f22e16a8fe9e98e\u0022\u003ESkills Shortages\u2014Labour Force\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcfc841dc8924f27bd27e70069869dd0\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What reports has he received on progress towards addressing skill shortages in the labour force?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002203cf565ac1aa416b92f05458f3e790ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203cf565ac1aa416b92f05458f3e790ba\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The Department of Labour\u2019s Skills in the Labour Market report released today shows that, despite a strong labour market, the number of firms having difficulty finding skilled staff has decreased by 59 percent over the last year and a half. This achievement is, of course, in the context of the lowest level of unemployment ever recorded in New Zealand, at 3.6 percent. This clearly shows that the Labour-led Government\u2019s initiatives like industry training, Modern Apprenticeships, and industry partnerships\u2014policies that were anathema to the last National Government\u2014are having an extremely positive effect on this economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab396d6b6e947a2a281356ebdbe6b28\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: What is the impact of this easing of the labour market on firms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f2aa3aec3041df80f77108bf6ccb91\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The latest Skills in the Labour Market report, which I have just referred to, shows that only 15 percent of businesses say a shortage of labour was their main constraint on expansion, down from 26 percent in March 2005 and down by almost half in the last 15 months. The job vacancy monitor has shown the third consecutive fall in the levels of job vacancies, led by Auckland where the level of vacancies has fallen by 15 percent over the last year, and the number of trainees enrolled in key trade qualifications has doubled over the last 6 years. The Government now, thankfully, has policies in place to support industry, and this compares to the complete lack of support for the skill needs of the economy under National in the 1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc5bab3ab484db683cb4b5e5dfa1338\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members that answers are meant to be concise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fc6f842f5734b3e872d40c5cea8ddb2\u0022\u003EPrisoner Transfer\u2014Service Delivery Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dfcc42185d84595b9aac3dea203bac8\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Can he confirm that the agreement between the Department of Corrections and Chubb New Zealand Ltd for the provision of prisoner escort services includes a service delivery component that \u201CUnless otherwise agreed with the Department of Corrections\u201D prisoners under the age of 20 \u201Cmust be kept separate from all other Prisoners\u201D, and how does he reconcile this with his statement that \u201Cthe law states that when outside a prison, prisoners under 18 years of age must be kept apart from adult prisoners where practicable\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002269488e8c0b664f1497ac9a4b776f9833\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269488e8c0b664f1497ac9a4b776f9833\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, the agreement with Chubb specifies a higher level of protection for youth. The contract does not include the words \u201Cwhere practicable\u201D. This separation of youth from adult prisoners should occur in all instances, except where the Department of Corrections and Chubb agree otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a5d49e3d09418786a2c4fbaa4307f1\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Department of Corrections decide that Liam Ashley should be locked into a compartment with a violent offender on the way to prison from court, in light of the fact that, under the agreement with Chubb, that could occur only with the agreement of the department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f70eab93f42c4ba29e3f7bb50f7807d0\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am not prepared to speculate on what might have occurred on that tragic day. That is what the inquiries and investigations will uncover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261c6c5220d8a44a19cfd72347c18f22f\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Minister done since the death of Mr Ashley to protect youth who are being transported under the care of the Department of Corrections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022952661452893472295449cd9918f6161\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: On Monday, 28 August I issued a directive to the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections for him to issue an instruction to both departmental staff and contractors that prohibits the transportation of youth aged under 18 years in the same vehicle compartment as adult prisoners. I can confirm that the chief executive\u2019s instruction has been issued and is being fully complied with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b54a3d0b4254f55a161456d6f81f285\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Is it not true that the department\u2019s decision to use a private security company to transport prisoners, rather than trained departmental officers, is purely a cost-saving measure, and does he now feel that the savings might not be worth the associated risks; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287417b5be43643789e061d0e17b06ce5\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The contract for the Auckland region has been in place since 1998. Roughly 220,000 prisoners have been transported. Thankfully, we have not had an incident like this before. All these issues will be looked at. It is not a cost-saving exercise that drives this contract.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dae27350473749ef909f6ab4d80019f4\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Who made the decision to lock Liam Ashley into a compartment with a violent offender on the way to prison from court; if the Minister does not know by now, a week after this tragic event, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbabc5ec341d400f8625f521a771f764\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am not prepared to jeopardise, undermine, or prejudge the five inquiries that are taking place into this horrific tragedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202e7b5caaa2249fb87650b890b3bbfac\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Why was Liam Ashley locked into a compartment with a violent offender, when the judge sought an assurance that he would be kept separate in custody; if he did have to share a compartment, why was it not with a non-violent offender, such as the Indian overstayer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc8b3aafc3c74e1982899e0c78dabee7\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: There has been much speculation and many prejudgments on this incident. I am not prepared to add to that. I await the outcomes of these inquiries to clearly identify what happened on that day, and if the recommendations are that changes should be made, then they will be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2bbe3d073e4fffabf18f1f11090556\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the reported view of Peter Williams QC that in cases such as Liam Ashley\u2019s: \u201CThe Corrections Department must take the responsibility, even if they have allocated it to Chubb.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d705e1938d940b8aa315fdc4f25e2e3\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of Government agencies involved\u2014the courts, the police, the Department of Corrections\u2014and a subcontractor. I am not prepared to prejudge where mistakes were made\u2014if they were made\u2014on that tragic day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244ccd2af99e04890b86719476ae3e6d0\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that it is \u201Ctotally unacceptable\u201D and \u201Cabhorrent that a 17-year-old should be murdered in the back of a prison van. Something is very badly wrong.\u201D; if so, has the Minister followed the convention of individual ministerial responsibility and offered his resignation to the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff984a75bb441909b70e38bd9ba5f30\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the Prime Minister that this is a terrible tragedy. We shall await the outcomes of the inquiries to discover what happened on that tragic day and what changes may need to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c1abd4823d4400da551d935fdc82285\u0022\u003ECommunity-based Clinics\u2014At-risk Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E8. JO GOODHEW (National\u2014Aoraki), on behalf of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b341453424a14becb5342e37bbacca68\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What evidence is there that the Government\u2019s proposed community-based clinics will improve access for at-risk children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002200e9376517ce4201bf67a66778cb771b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200e9376517ce4201bf67a66778cb771b\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E There is evidence from a number of sources, including a University of Otago study, that the Government\u2019s plan will significantly improve access. The community model is also showing early, but significant, promise in those Australian states where it has been deployed. It should also be noted that the community-based clinics will make it easier for preschool children to access services, which is especially important as so many of the young people are developing cavities before they turn 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3503251bfa24a9fa13c30a36a32c22c\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: What research-based evidence does the Minister have that at-risk 3 to 10-year-olds with rotting teeth will attend large, centralised clinics in commercial areas rather than clinics in their neighbourhood school?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feebd023274140b195c70efdc095285c\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member might perhaps slightly misunderstand the Government\u2019s approach. Although some school dental clinics will close\u2014in fact, a number of them already have, and a number of others are barely open; they are open for only a few hours a week\u2014many other school dental facilities will remain, a number of them will be expanded, and a number of them will have access for the public through a separate entrance so that they do not have to go through the school-grounds, etc. In addition to that, new community facilities will be built, and the links between those community facilities and the schools and early childhood facilities in the region will need to be built, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd78a2427a85473cbb3ae10fc4918d13\u0022\u003EAnn Hartley\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government not act sooner to reinvest in oral health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d00b3ae78344a58f28f37b061196d2\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: A very good question\u2014we have spent a little time on it today\u2014and I will say again: because there were not enough dental therapists. Even today school clinics are, on average, open less than half the time\u2014that is, for those schools that have them. We could, of course, have started to build new dental facilities in our first year, but there would have been no one to work in them. So my colleague the Hon Annette King decided that building dental therapist schools to train people was the first thing that needed to be done, and that is exactly what she did. The fact that New Zealand ceased training dental therapists during the 1990s is, in my view, a scandal. The size of the workforce halved, and it is no wonder that the dental health of our children is declining as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022472ba38b0e0c46dd92e601d14e445092\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Will his ministry be funding public education campaigns in the near future, to cover shortfalls in free oral health-care; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226868d788aa24facad80d14600db0d13\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed. Public education campaigns are an integral part of the vision for oral health-care. As the member may be aware, given her knowledge of the subject, an advisory group is meeting in the very near future to examine and advance that initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222289e3201742417889ffb6a17a73fce4\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister announced that the percentage of children who are caries-free is at an all-time low, was he referring to the Labour Government\u2019s 1999 to 2005 record in the area of the district health board of Waikato, where the percentage has fallen from 47 percent to 34 percent; the area of the district health board of Wairarapa, where it has fallen from 53 percent to 41 percent; the area of the district health board of Wanganui, where it has fallen from 49 percent to 39 percent; or, horrifyingly, the area of the district health board of Northland, where it has fallen from 43 percent to 33 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1d1a8e0f32f4c508b981411ee09b691\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is interesting that the National Party today does not face the fact that it was a National Government that caused this situation. What is more, my predecessor, the Hon Annette King, herself a dental therapist, got on to the problem as fast as anyone could have done. There was no way of getting those schools to open earlier, because the National Government held the Treasury benches, and despite the fact that Annette King in Opposition said time and time again that it had to be fixed, that Government, when it was in power, did nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6d5bfed1a714749aab29934b6acf2ea\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister respond to the verdict of the MidCentral District Health Board Dental Service Clinical Director, Phil Marshall, who said the people who need dental care the most are the least likely to visit the new, centrally based community clinics, and: \u201CThe lower socio-economic groups will not access those facilities and they are the people who need it the most.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229de179a339854141bf7efc59ab161af2\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The aforementioned clinical director, Phil Marshall, will be one of those putting together a business plan for his district. Therefore, that gentleman and others like him around the country have the solution in their hands. In the same press statement, however, the same gentleman said: \u201CThe best time to fix the roof is when the sun is shining\u2014in this case, when there is money around. We will need to do it quickly and well.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022656b46b0fc714f9791f6f9d0f4c21435\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister realise how silly it sounds when he angrily blames National for the state of children\u2019s teeth, when one considers that most of those kids were not even born when the Government changed in 1999; and does he realise that the public just does not believe him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba7738f66e6c48dea209f4a7ab71dd2f\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his question; it allows me to rehearse history one more time. The number of dental therapists in this country roughly halved. It was a little over 1,000; it fell to 550. The reason for that was that during the 1990s the National Government stopped training dental therapists in this country altogether. I ask members to imagine if we had stopped training brain surgeons or plumbers; well, we did this with dental therapists\u2014we stopped. It was beyond belief. Therefore, the dental clinics closed, the workforce fell further, and the kids\u2019 teeth are suffering. To begin repairing this unbelievable problem one had to open new dental therapy training schools. My colleague the Hon Annette King did that. We have got both of them running, and running hard, and the graduates are starting to come through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eefe1abb44847c4b9315f36c8d73cb5\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not time the Minister confirmed that despite a high pile of visions, strategies, and reviews, 7 years of promises by the Labour Government, and a former dental nurse having been in charge of health, the lack of progress on addressing oral health problems is best highlighted by a press release from the Prime Minister, Helen Clark, and the Minister of Health, entitled: Labour Revamping Dental Services for Young NZers, dated 31 August 2005\u2014so no progress at all, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d28a024823e345d1a22591cb4e4e8ca8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is almost beyond belief, is it not? The long and short of it is that in the Budget that was announced by my colleague in May of this year about $100 million of capital was put on the table, and, as well as that, some operating funding is needed to pay these people whom we have trained. They have just come out of school. Maybe they came out in November last year. Some of them\u2014the first lot\u2014actually came out of the Auckland University of Technology the year before. They have only just arrived in the workforce. We are building dental clinics for them to work in, and as the numbers of dental therapists increase\u2014and they will increase each year\u2014we will have buildings ready for them to go into. That is what good planning is about. Bad planning is when we stop training dental therapists in this country completely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022863fe662c5564d81a8d70c70e49beb3a\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the 1-year-old press release from the Prime Minister and the Minister of Health entitled: Labour Revamping Dental Services for Young NZers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c35db921a4a647dbabaea0bfe855e23a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e543172e191a488bb3db67016fef9ee4\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the verdict of the MidCentral District Health Board Dental Service Clinical Director, Phil Marshall, in yesterday\u2019s Manawatu Standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe1df676ce32429c949b72c1b01c638c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f949fff9dd524216bef5c50ee4f996af\u0022\u003EZimbabwean Refugees\u2014HIV Testing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248caa9fbd20e4b3f9ec8c4a3a850ab52\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he believe the decision not to test Zimbabweans for HIV before entering New Zealand, despite Zimbabwe\u2019s high HIV rate, was in New Zealand\u2019s best interests, and if not, does he stand by his reported comments that criticism about the decision was \u201Cprobably fair\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022c064d80fcf6d46b5b71b04cff4b7fcd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c064d80fcf6d46b5b71b04cff4b7fcd5\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E This Government does support HIV testing for long-term migrants, and it was this Government that introduced mandatory testing, a move\u2014and I hope I am not being presumptuous\u2014that I am sure New Zealand First supports, and we are grateful for that support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aef3656307dd460d9bbf5359cded660c\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that if New Zealand allows an extra 200 HIV-positive people to become residents, it would increase the 1,700 known residents living with HIV/AIDS in New Zealand by more than 10 percent, and how does he expect the public to believe his assertions that the policy will decrease the prevalence of HIV in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb4a4d9c563e4388863dab921382ddb1\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Precisely because if those people are not identified, if they are not given a diagnosis, if they are not given support, and if they are not given close medical attention the spread of HIV in New Zealand will quicken, not slow down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd0acf7b18a44063ad3ce6ebd026cf90\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What has been the reaction to the Government\u2019s announcement that Zimbabweans who test positive for HIV will be allowed to stay in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1355493cf284d15b5f3262c87dc97b5\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The decision has been welcomed by the New Zealand Medical Association, the New Zealand AIDS Foundation, the Human Rights Commission, and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, amongst others. These endorsements are a sign of New Zealand\u2019s maturity on the issue of HIV and a credit to the work of successive Governments in advocating a pragmatic approach to the management of the virus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba86b98a84f41be85f23a64f24630f8\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is it possible that the prevalence of HIV/AIDS among Zimbabweans yet to apply for residency is higher than average given their reluctance to apply thus far, so it is possible that the worst-case scenario is actually a mid-range figure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa220600c048443ca0f3c3519c0472fe\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: What the Government has done so far is process\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfefc247d1b64f479ebfdb4d673d4f8c\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What about asking senior citizens or the people who are bumped off waiting lists?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb74f68de4544df9805ad5634002c32\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants a question she should ask for it and seek it from the Speaker. The member may be aware there are 1,300 Zimbabwean citizens resident in New Zealand under this special resident policy. Five hundred of those have already been processed, if you will, and that processing includes testing for HIV. The prevalence rates amongst those already tested is about 8 percent, but we have said publicly that the prevalence rate for the remaining 800 people to be tested might be as high as 20 percent, precisely because that is the prevalence rate back in the entire Zimbabwean population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022043ce1d106344d70bc615990ff3ac262\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that these people were required to declare they were of both good health and good character when they arrived here, and that people who knew they had HIV at that time are, at best, dishonest, so how are these people able to pass the good character requirement when they have been dishonest in their initial declaration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ed527c853142bc9a3ec2ef42bcde85\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that in the processing the Zimbabwean refugees will have to pass a good character test and a police check, and so on. However, the member, if I might suggest gently, might miss the point. The danger to the public health of New Zealanders is not so much from people who know they have HIV but from people who do not know they have HIV.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c24169ae4714993b84daa58592e19ab\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table this morning\u2019s NewsRoom summary of the sort of disastrous Zimbabwe any people expelled would be returning to, where the reports by the Solidarity Peace Trust state that almost nothing has been done to house 700,000 people in Zimbabwe who lost their homes and livelihoods in the demolitions last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022496041b006544339814f4d1b82989151\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Wanganui\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fc6a850e5014f6cb5e0db10bd3fea36\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What representations, if any, has he received from the chair of the Whanganui District Health Board regarding recent public concerns over health services in the Wanganui area, and when did he receive these representations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022598a37285e714ab89b7ff754dae397dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022598a37285e714ab89b7ff754dae397dd\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am in regular contact with district health board chairs, and I have spoken to Dr O\u2019Connor several times in the past month. He is, in my view, a hard-working and dedicated chair and he makes sure that the issues facing the Whanganui District Health Board are well understood by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd26eb2925844035a3f5716e92064706\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What representations has the chair of the Whanganui District Health Board made in respect of the 365 Wanganui elderly who had home care cruelly cut from them from 4 September, who in some cases have been receiving home care for 14 years, and who are unable to manage vacuuming, washing, and household chores, or move around as freely as he can; and what, if anything does the Minister intend to do about that situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8277a63e754e6a8848d86aaed095c4\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be aware that the Government has increased funding for home-based support services very substantially indeed\u2014well over 100 percent since the change of Government. What is happening in Wanganui is that the demand has appeared to rise very quickly indeed. One figure I saw showed the demand rising by 22 percent in 12 months. Something is not right here; the way the funding is being allocated\u2014it seems to me\u2014needs to be reviewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55ccdabcc964c0d87c05694e94aff6d\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall his statement made in the House yesterday: \u201CI stand by my comment that today there are comprehensive paediatric services in Wanganui.\u201D, and how does he reconcile that with the fact that today, Thursday, 31 August, there is no paediatrician at Wanganui Hospital, and between now and 18 September there will be 5 days when Wanganui Hospital is without a paediatrician, which will affect the safety of children with chronic and serious conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2840c47ac2745789ce99048f69f0043\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am aware there is no paediatrician at Wanganui today, and that there are several days in the forthcoming month when there will also be\u2014[Interruption] I said \u201Ccomprehensive\u201D coverage. Let me give an indication of what I mean. Since the paediatrician went on leave, of all of the children who have accessed a paediatrician in Wanganui, somewhere over 90 percent have accessed a paediatrician in Wanganui itself. That is to say, I think five, or perhaps six, children have travelled to Palmerston North in that time, and that is really no different from what happens between the paediatric services in Wanganui and Palmerston North, ordinarily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a81859856541a9b6f1e6e6416d361e\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What representations has the chair made in respect of the lack of specialist care for Wanganui\u2019s acquired brain injury sufferers\u2014those Wanganui people who have to be accommodated in New Plymouth by the same provider that now operates a facility in Wanganui and that wants to accommodate these Wanganui people locally but cannot, because the ministry will not allow it; and what, if anything, does the Minister intend to do about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbfd305ac9e546f1bb479ae75d6ac6d4\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There was a time recently\u2014I apologise to the member; I do not have my timing absolutely right\u2014when the Ministry of Health went into the Wanganui area asking for those who would like to provide services that the member refers to. It turned out that, at that time, it was suggested by the people who were consulted that there was no need for such a service. If a need has arisen since, the ministry will look to address it, but the ministry will not open a new facility if only one or two people need to go into it. If there are more, we would happily look at it afresh. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2fdbf22ceda48889d9d41a35f24937d\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister really believe that paediatricians and obstetricians are going to be attracted to Wanganui, given that the money he is giving to Wanganui will support only a basic birthing unit, or is this, as a member of the public announced at the community meeting earlier this week, a deliberate agenda of the Government to move secondary maternity services to Palmerston North?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de6976314ecc4bf393639170ffd6ad75\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for coming to the point, and I can say to her, without any reservation at all, there is no secret agenda with this Government and the health services of Wanganui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022047d4b5c2a0b4c1e84c528f4beaac6c3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226018b386bb348218febf36d08ca506d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is no secret agenda. We support the provision of secondary health services in Wanganui. We are delighted that Wanganui is about to have a $30-million investment in its hospital services. That is the sort of thing a Government can do for the people of Wanganui, when it does not have huge tax cuts on its mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f25fb41cea44eac9ce6742ca23bcc6c\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister now accept that with big problems in acute paediatric services, home care for the elderly, funding for palliative care, obstetric services, specialist services for acquired brain injury sufferers, and a shortage of ambulance services, health care in Wanganui is in crisis and that it is his job to ensure the safety of Wanganui people and to stop hiding behind the hard-working health providers in Wanganui?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245d02c4b59454c63b7861ff843db03c8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not hiding behind anyone, and neither are the hard-working health professionals in Wanganui. The sort of thing the hard-working health professionals in Wanganui have done since the change of Government is to increase surgical discharges in Wanganui by 35 percent. That is the sort of thing that can happen when a Government pays attention to building a public health service, and does not have tax cuts on its mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223c18d6f5cfa48da8e0430896c672897\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still stand by his comments made in the House yesterday that Wanganui is better off than most district health boards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeba467c734f4a26ad827d6af1012e21\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, probably I do not. Because when I think about it, most district health boards are getting new hospitals. There are now something like 24 or 25 new-hospital, or refurbishment, projects in the scheme of things. Some are completed and some about to be started. That is a huge amount of investment from this Government into the public health system. When I think about it, the main difference between us and National is that it ran the hospitals down in the 1990s and we are building them, a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b1a13202bb4c5282df53268912230c\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document indicating that some 36 hospitals were shut down by Helen Clark during her term as Health Minister in the late 1980s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba05b88a03041db8c67e752c7db5a9d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274a876fb6e7641a2a9fa057f9003fdfd\u0022\u003EFinancial Institutions and Business\u2014Confidence and Innovation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fdcf616c0b14234be8ca2ed1e5c5ddb\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce: What steps has she taken to enhance confidence in New Zealand\u2019s financial institutions and promote business innovation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00228b9c47829d1a46d99f2944caefde7ce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b9c47829d1a46d99f2944caefde7ce8\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E Today I released nine discussion documents as part of the review of financial products and providers. The review is designed to develop effective and consistent frameworks for the non-bank financial sector. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the different parts of the sector that engaged so positively with the Government on developing these options and that have warmly welcomed the release of these documents today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226761f6fa1321401b99ef96960a070c23\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: How does this review relate to the Government\u2019s economic transformation agenda?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266837e91f19b4bfbb4f0f85076caba49\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: That is an excellent question. This review supports the economic transformation agenda by updating outdated legislation, reducing compliance costs for business, making regulation more effective, and improving consumer protection. This is just another example of the Labour-led Government getting on with business and ensuring the environment for business growth is the best it can be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b117d8bc5734f86a1175f69a46fccfa\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that with nearly all our banks now owned by Australian interests her review will make it easier for Australian interests to now dominate the non-banking financial sector, as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4fe637fbc18411fabcd8a867bf15d38\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: No. That is not the intention of the review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210307fab1897440a978a132b098038d0\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Is the review in response to the recent finance company collapses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ba7a2cae5645f39e45e62dfc42577a\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: No. The work on this review commenced in May last year and has engaged with all elements of the sectors involved in the discussion documents. Changes are proposed in these documents that may assist in improving disclosure to uninformed investors of the real risks they face when investing in products on the strength of a familiar face on TV rather than quality advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ef1ded6bf1d47e6926f7e3c46c92933\u0022\u003ECommunity and Voluntary Sector\u2014Relationships with Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c7b1b821824df9bc72e64852dbdc3b\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector: What recent reports, if any, has she received regarding relationships between the community and voluntary sector and the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022 data-id=\u00225f690229b662418e8f91dd3245ceecc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f690229b662418e8f91dd3245ceecc2\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E I regularly receive a range of reports from officials on the relationship between the community and voluntary sector and the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d649c96c57694cc99ca7ddbb3c3d728c\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: In the voluntary sector is lafo offered at times in lieu of wages, and does she consider it appropriate for a member of Parliament to accept lafo while working in the community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f9e61e390484c4f8c4370b3ead1c63f\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that the issue of lafo is currently being looked at by Cabinet Office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022275fb7225eea4528b903c8a1e413a39c\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to strengthen relationships with the community and voluntary sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f422b6bfaa540538a690b0aed8f9c25\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour-led Government initiated the Good Practice in Action Seminar Series, which promotes positive relationships between Government agencies and the community and voluntary sector. Another excellent example of collaboration is the Keeping it Legal resource, which helps community organisations better manage their legal responsibilities\u2014over 6,000 copies have been distributed and it is being reprinted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dfb2ba88cd346f0b57adeafc34780ee\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports of voluntary labour on a significant scale from members of the Thai community being of particular benefit to one of her parliamentary colleagues, and are those reports in line with her own view of how the voluntary sector should operate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253913fdcd5d54f8998b6b10df2f35e23\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have received no such reports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ea0259c1cf94175b4bc12f82c243264\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Would it be in line with her own view of how the voluntary sector should operate for a group of seven Thais, five of whom had received immigration assistance from Taito Phillip Field, to drive 658 kilometres from Auckland to Wellington in two four-wheel drive vehicles, along with their work tools, to stay at the house at 57 Kinghorne Street then owned by Taito Phillip Field, to do repair work involving both plastering and painting on that house, before driving the 658 kilometres back to Auckland; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cef61844faac49a196163d856c1b7c6a\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: That would be a good question to put to the Minister of Labour. However, I want to say that over 1 million people in New Zealand are volunteers. They provide enormous social capital to this country, and we are grateful for the economic and social well-being they provide for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca01b9cec06540cda8763265773c1254\u0022\u003EWeathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d31c56c2ca8a4f07a70931d6b8dd255e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00228153cf5b5ae5454a83f4d6df40875f30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228153cf5b5ae5454a83f4d6df40875f30\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill be considered by the Social Services Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 4 December 2006, and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 192 and 195(1)(b) and (c). This time frame is necessary because the legislation needs to be enacted as soon as possible so that the enhancements to the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service can commence in early 2007, as has been publicly signalled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWith this amending legislation the Government is improving the effectiveness and efficiency of the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. The amendments follow a substantial review of the service. That review sought the views of industry representatives, consumer groups, and territorial authorities, and included analysis of the needs\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237770e94edb640efb765d27dcc6eb532\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Would members leaving the Chamber please show some courtesy to the member trying to address it. It is a longstanding convention that members should not conduct conversations in the House unless it is strictly necessary to do so, and then only so as not to disturb proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f29c0571651d42f09c984fedaf64bcd1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014of all the involved parties. The bill is central to the Government\u2019s commitment to actively help resolve the so-called leaky homes situation. The Weathertight Homes Resolution Service was set up in 2002 as a call to arms to deal with a major problem. Although people have gained successful settlements so far, the service is too slow and is being drawn out by lawyers and other so-called experts. The review identified the need to strengthen and streamline the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service by improving the efficiency and effectiveness of each stage within the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service process by allowing homeowners to claim for a similar range of damages as that they would be able to claim in a court process, and by helping owners of units within multi-unit apartment complexes to register claims and resolve disputes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill sets out to achieve all these outcomes. It will also contribute towards the Government\u2019s strategic goal of supporting families, young and old, by helping to ensure that homes are healthy and dry. Since buying a home is often the biggest single investment that Kiwis make, the bill also contributes to this country\u2019s economic transformation, because it is critical that people have the confidence to invest. The reforms in this bill build on the Government\u2019s commitment to homeowners to provide a speedier, lower-cost alternative to the court system for resolving leaky building claims. In essence, the provisions of the bill will help owners of leaky homes resolve their disputes quicker, get compensation from the liable parties, and get their homes repaired. This is another way the Government is ensuring New Zealanders have access to quality homes and buildings that meet their needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E The main components of the proposed legislation are as follows. The bill introduces a new, streamlined dispute resolution process, with compulsory pre-hearing conferencing for standard claims before claims move to time-limited mediation. Claims that do not achieve a mediated solution move to adjudication. The bill also encourages informal dispute resolution and puts in place several mechanisms to speed up and streamline the claims processes, such as establishing a new process for low-value claims. Faster resolution of disputes will also be aided by the provision of a comprehensive assistance package and guidance for claimants and respondents. This includes more comprehensive Weathertight Homes Resolution Service assessment reports, which can become expert evidence, potentially saving the parties thousands of dollars by not having to get their own specialist reports done. Importantly, the amendments allow claimants to claim for potential, as well as actual, non-weathertight damage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill sets out objectives for a less adversarial, more investigative, and swifter adjudication process. Collectively, these measures move the service towards an investigative approach to dispute resolution so that the process is not only faster and less costly for parties, but also less litigious. Adjudicators can currently award costs against a party that they consider to have caused unnecessary costs either by acting in bad faith or through making allegations or objections without substantial merit. These powers will remain in the Act. However, the bill also introduces new offence provisions, with fines attached for other negative behaviours such as failure to comply with an adjudicator\u2019s order or summons. This will help adjudicators to get on with their jobs. The Government has also decided to make the adjudication function independent of the Department of Building and Housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Justice will be responsible for establishing and administering the new Weathertight Homes Tribunal. This will enhance consumer and respondent confidence in the adjudication service, improve acceptance of the authority of the adjudicators, and provide more institutional support for adjudicators. It will also strengthen the role of Weathertight Homes Resolution Service advisers by removing any perceived conflict of interest in the provision of both an advisory and an adjudication role by the department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill removes obstacles to bodies corporate bringing claims for multi-unit apartment complexes by setting voting thresholds that are not unanimous, so that \u201Chold-out\u201D situations are less likely to occur. This is especially important given that around 70 percent of claimants with the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service are unit title apartment owners. Collectively, the measures in the amendment bill will reduce the average time for claims to be resolved; result in homeowners and respondents incurring lower legal and evidential costs than they do at present when using the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service; increase the proportion of disputes resolved through early negotiation; ensure that homeowners receive an accurate and comprehensive assessment of the damage to their houses, including what repair work is needed; result in homeowners being better prepared for the dispute resolution process; improve the independence of the adjudication process; and remove existing barriers to the registration of claims and the resolution of disputes by owners of units within multi-unit apartment complexes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill will also improve the weathertightness information available to prospective homebuyers by requiring Weathertight Homes Resolution Service notices to be placed on local authority land information memorandum reports. The new requirement means that potential buyers should know whether a house has been fixed, as a Weathertight Homes Resolution Service notice will be listed along with any related consent repair work and code compliance certification. An accompanying consumer education campaign will also encourage prospective homebuyers to seek these reports before buying, in order to make informed purchase decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Government is also developing a financial assistance pilot for the worst-affected owners of leaky homes. We put aside $7.1 million in the last Budget for lending assistance under the 2-year pilot programme. The Housing New Zealand Corporation, along with the Department of Building and Housing, is currently developing eligibility criteria and lending conditions for the pilot financial assistance scheme. Work is progressing well, and announcements will be made when final decisions have been made, which is likely to be well within the next couple of months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is also important to note that the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service was established as a specific solution to deal with a specific issue. Changes in the Building Act 2004 are now addressing the systemic failures across the building and construction sector that led to the leaky home problems. These changes include the licensing of those who design and build, whilst at the same time specifically protecting the do-it-yourself, or DIY, tradition in New Zealand; a review of the building code; an auditing and accreditation scheme for building consent authorities; sector and community education; the investigation of a home warranty insurance scheme; and building product certification. These measures are part of a package of reforms to help ensure that homes are built right the first time and that homeowners have confidence in them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis bill, therefore, puts in a time limit so that homes built or altered after 31 December 2011 will no longer be eligible to use the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. In essence, this means that the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service will cease around 2021. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EFinally, I thank those groups who have provided huge assistance in the community, including the Leaky Homes Action Group, which has endorsed this package of measures. It has provided invaluable assistance, along with territorial local authorities and others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis is a serious issue. I will not politicise this issue, nor have I engaged in political banter on it. This is about people\u2019s lives. This is about changing a regime that was enacted over a decade ago, when the industry was completely deregulated so that there were virtually no rules and all sorts of people could strap on a tool belt and call themselves builders, and, therefore, the cowboys were let into the system. That was aided and abetted by the deliberate destruction of the apprenticeship system by the then Government. In essence, if there are no rules and minimum standards, and if young people are not trained to become master tradespeople of the future, then that is a recipe for disaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI look forward to the passage of this bill. This bill is about helping our communities out of the problem created by many stakeholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022274a3553b14c4a09b3560d3e5908a777\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022274a3553b14c4a09b3560d3e5908a777\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E The Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill is another sad chapter in the Government\u2019s inept handling of the leaky home crisis. It comes as no surprise to me that Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s previous occupation was that of a spin doctor. Today he has tried to paper over huge gaps in his Government\u2019s policies and his Government\u2019s neglect of the whole problem that affects thousands and thousands of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us go back to when this issue first arose. In 2001 building experts wrote to George Hawkins and said there was a very serious problem with leaky homes. And what did George Hawkins do? Well, after receiving that letter from the building industry he wrote back, but then denied he had ever received it\u2014and he did absolutely nothing. And then there was Helen Clark. In November 2002 Helen Clark had this to say about the leaky homes issue. She said she was sick of the New Zealand Herald banging on about issues that had no substance. That was what the Prime Minister said about the plight of thousands of decent New Zealanders who were living in rotting, substandard homes\u2014and the Government did nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut when it became a public relations problem for the Government, in a mad rush it created the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. Did the Government send the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Bill to a select committee? No, it did not. We had the fastest legislation in the West, with a Supplementary Order Paper tabled in this Parliament and passed only a few weeks later. Are any of us now surprised that it has been an absolute flop and a disaster? No, we are not. The service was never about helping homeowners; it was all about damage control for the Prime Minister and the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us listen to what the Government said in 2002 when the legislation was passed and the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service was set up. Clayton, your ministerial colleague said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fa1ee98df204bbaae4cc9d9c9b8a5fb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is to use the full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dffb1700656f44be937343c1eeadb611\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the Minister that the Government then said it would take only 2 years to fix the problem. That was in 2002, 4 years ago. But the Minister said in the House today that it will now take until 2021 to fix the problem. What an indictment that is on the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe can look at the record of Labour\u2019s Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. This Government has spent $52 million on the bureaucracy of that service, but do members know what proportion of claims has been resolved after 4 years and $52 million? It is just 10 percent\u2014just 10 percent of those poor homeowners have had a solution. Labour\u2019s Weathertight Homes Resolution Service is a sick, horrible joke on those homeowners caught up in that nightmare. Let us have a look at the rate of settlement. Far from taking 2 years to settle claims, as the Minister said it would when the service was established, do members know how long it will take at the current rate of settlement? It will take 75 years. There will not be a member of this House alive then, if the agency continues at its current rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us look at the cost. Each leaky home case that is being resolved is costing $92,000. But that $92,000 is not being spent on a single dwang or a single hour of a builder\u2019s time; that $92,000 is being spent, per home, on bureaucracy\u2014on reports, lawyers, and arguments. Do members know what the average settlement is? The average settlement is only $70,000. It would have been better to send the cheques directly to homeowners than to have wasted $52 million on Labour\u2019s failed Weathertight Homes Resolution Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us find out how some of that money was spent. Last year I drew attention to the fact that the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service had got into party mode. What was it celebrating? It had a Sound of Music theme party. It had an aeroplanes party. It even had\u2014can we believe it\u2014a \u201CCowboys and Indians\u201D party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c485225afa949d3b4eb1a83f56930f7\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: But they are cowboys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228119676d22b845b4ae6ad25bc4c633a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, my colleague \u201CBob the Builder\u201D says they are, in fact, cowboys. It is disgraceful that poor New Zealanders are living in rotting homes and going broke, and the people in the Government agency are spending tens of thousands of dollars on parties rather than on helping them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen, to really get a feel for how sick the culture of this Government is, I tell members that the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service went to the flashest hotel in Auckland\u2014the Stamford Plaza\u2014and had a Pacific Islands awareness training day. That is right; it flew all its staff up from Wellington for a day of drinking kava and having dancing girls, rather than fix people\u2019s leaky homes. Have we ever heard of anything so ridiculous? Is there any proof that our Weathertight Homes Resolution Service staff need politically correct training on Pacific Island culture, for goodness\u2019 sake? Is there any evidence, I ask Winnie Laban, that more leaky homes are amongst the Pacific Island community than amongst others? Of course, there is not. It was just mad Government political correctness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us look at the portfolio. Mr Clayton Cosgrove is the seventh Minister for Building Issues. The portfolio has been handed around within the Government like a hot potato. We have had Mark Burton, George Hawkins, Lianne Dalziel, Margaret Wilson, John Tamihere, Chris Carter, and now we have Clayton Cosgrove. I ask that member opposite what his track record is since he has held the portfolio. When asked, Clayton Cosgrove says we will get some real action. Well, let us look at the record. Since Mr Clayton Cosgrove has been Minister for Building Issues, 200 claims have been resolved, but 584 new claims have been lodged. Mr Cosgrove is going backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen we come to the solutions in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222396ac9911de438780fe5337cfb92cda\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: This will be interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228499bb8301f640108625019fb64d8584\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: This is good. We are going to help the leaky home owners because no longer will we have the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. We will change its name. We will have the Weathertight Homes Tribunal. That will help those thousands of leaky home owners, will it not? They will be delighted to know there is a name change!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is effectively too little, too late. We will change the Government department that is responsible for the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. It started off with the Department of Internal Affairs, but the department passed it on like a hot potato to the Department of Building and Housing. Now it will be passed on to another Government department, the Ministry of Justice. I am left wondering how that will help leaky home owners. Then I look at the disgrace of the Government\u2019s spending $5 million on lawyers fighting leaky home owners rather than helping them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is too little, too late. The whole episode of leaky homes under this Government has been a disgrace. Those leaky home owners deserve far better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad2a984a986640f184a81afcd5f2c128\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad2a984a986640f184a81afcd5f2c128\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E I listened to the opening statement from Nick Smith\u2019s address and it was a sad chapter. What a rich thing coming from that sad man, who is part of that sad party over there. I look at the sad, forlorn faces of that group of members who have had to sit and listen to that waffle\u2014to someone grizzling and whining\u2014with not one solution in sight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI am really proud that this Government, with support from good, visionary parties such as New Zealand First, United Future, and the Green Party, is intent on making sure it fixes things. We are sick of hearing this \u201CBob the Builder\u201D approach to politics and building, which is what comes out of the mouths of those people over there. The misconception is that it is a new bureaucracy. This is not a new bureaucracy. By transferring adjudication to the Ministry of Justice, it increases its status and ensures that it does what the ministry does best\u2014its core business, which is settling business disputes. So that is a step forward. We can look at that step forward and realise what a major step forward we have made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWe know that a National Government was the one that actually started all the problems by deregulating the building sector in the 1990s and by dismantling and repealing the Apprenticeship Act so that we now see a major deficiency in skills and knowledge in that industry. We know why. It is because National brought in the slash-and-burn approach during the 1990s and wrecked it all. Since then, Labour has reintroduced apprenticeships and upped skills training, and we are now starting to see some real credibility back in that industry. I am really proud of that. We have included the licensing of those who design and build their homes, whilst at the same time protecting the do-it-yourself tradition; the review of the building code; an auditing and accreditation scheme for building consent authorities; sector and consumer education; the investigation of a home warranty insurance scheme; and building product certification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThis will be part of a package of reforms to help ensure that homes are built right in the first place, which is something we did not see under a National Government. So I feel really proud to stand in support of this bill. I heard from the previous speaker the number of Ministers who have had this portfolio. All I can say is that it has been continuous improvement. They have been Ministers who have grabbed this role and really addressed it with passion. It has culminated in the really good progressive legislation we see before this House today. I am proud to speak in support of it. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00220fe9a46f2b89424eb18968ba92737eb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fe9a46f2b89424eb18968ba92737eb8\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard from Nick Smith that the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service has been a failure and that the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill is too little, too late. He bases that on the fact that, to date, only 10 percent of all claims have been resolved. Ministers at a Cabinet meeting sit round the table discussing Taito Phillip Field\u2019s backhanders for 2 hours and all those other issues, and when they have a spare few minutes at the end of the meeting, they talk about the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. They say\u2014and their own Cabinet papers before them state\u2014that 15,000 people, many of them young families with their first homes, are directly affected by weathertightness problems, and that it will take 75 years to resolve these issues through the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. They are hopeful it will happen some time before 2021\u2014some 15 years from now\u2014but we know that their papers tell them there are 15,000 outstanding claims. Fifteen thousand young families and older families are affected, and at the current rate it will take 75 years to resolve. That is absolutely appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe Minister is into the blame game. Can I give him just one solution that would be useful for him to put on the table. The Construction Industry Council came before the select committee a few months ago. One would expect the Construction Industry Council, which is in touch with all construction engineers, builders, and so forth throughout this country, to have something to offer over this problem. The council told us that as many as half of the building standards in New Zealand are more than a decade old, and some are hopelessly out of date and in need of review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EIn fact, the council said it knows that today there are 60 building standards that are out of date, and it could list them. If the Minister rang the council and asked which of the 60 building standards at the moment are hopelessly out of date and in need of review, it could list them, just like that. The council could just email the list to the Minister, and say: \u201CThese building standards are hopelessly out of date and in need of review.\u201D The council has said that of the 600 building standards currently in use in New Zealand, at least half are more than a decade old and need to be looked at. Of the 600 building standards, half need to be looked at and the council knows of 60 that are desperately in need of review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe council was so determined about the need to review these building standards, that do members know what it said? That its members\u2014construction companies and builders right throughout the country\u2014are prepared to pay an extra levy. The council said that its members are so enthusiastic about getting these standards reviewed\u2014such as how to put in a window properly, what timbers to use in what situations, all that type of thing\u2014that they themselves would pay an extra levy to get the work done. \u201CWe\u2019ll pay for it.\u201D, they said. \u201CIt\u2019s that essential to construction in this country, and we\u2019re doing the building, so we\u2019ll pay for it, through an extra levy. Bill us, we\u2019ll hand over the cheque, in order to get this work done.\u201D Yet still nothing has happened. Whether it is the range of materials used in building, the way that technology in building has changed, whether there are appropriate fire and earthquake safety provisions\u2014all those things are in need of review. They told us at the select committee: \u201CWe\u2019re happy to pay for it. Increase our levy, let\u2019s get the work done, and it will make a real difference.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EBut what are the departments that cover building and housing doing? What is the Minister doing? Well, they are turning a blind eye. The builders and the construction engineers are saying: \u201CListen, we\u2019ll pay for it. Send us the bill.\u201D But they still will not do it. Minister Cullen does not even have to increase taxes across the country to get this work done, and they still will not do it. A responsible Minister would want to be reassured that new technology, new techniques, and new designs in building are being covered adequately by current standards. That is what one would think. But, no, that is not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EMembers might want to know\u2014and I know the Assistant Speaker is keen to know this fact\u2014that Australia reviews its building standards every 7 years. That is right. Every 7 years Australia reviews its building standards. The Assistant Speaker wants to know that, \u201CSam the Eagle\u201D is interested in that fact, and the Minister should be as well. In Australia, building standards are reviewed every 7 years as a matter of course. In this country we have discovered that of 600 building standards, over half of them are over a decade old and have not been reviewed, and 60 are hopelessly out of date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThis is just one opportunity for this Minister to do something that would make an obvious difference. He should investigate the standards that are hopelessly out of date, and there are 60 of them\u2014the construction industry will email them to the Minister\u2014bring them up to date, and do a review of 300 standards, because half of the 600 are hopelessly out of date, we understand, or have not been reviewed for over a decade. He should have a look through them, as well. He should trawl through them, see what updated technology has come to pass in the last decade, what new materials have become available in the last decade, and what builders and construction engineers are saying about those standards. I say to the Minister that to do that one thing will make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI want to tell members what happens in my electorate office in Whangarei when a young family comes to me in tears because they have a rotting home. They say to me: \u201CWe\u2019ve heard of the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. We\u2019re thinking of going along there because we understand it\u2019s cheap to get into that system, and that our rotting home, our building issues, will be resolved.\u201D I shake my head and say \u201CNo.\u201D I pull out my bottom drawer\u2014and I can tell members that that bottom drawer has been open more and more, recently\u2014and I give them the examples. The first is the waiting time to get something resolved. It takes 2, 3, or 4 years. Second is the cost of lawyers, mediation, consultants\u2019 reports, more consultants\u2019 reports to confirm what the previous consultants have said, and more consultants\u2019 reports to confirm what the lawyers have said about the consultants\u2019 reports. I tell those people about the headache of paying for lawyers, consultants, and the mediation service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EDo members know what I say to them? I say \u201CDon\u2019t do it.\u201D There is no certainty in it, it will cost them a fortune, and, because there is no resolution in the end, they will pay for those consultants\u2019 reports and lawyers, and they cannot recover costs. My advice to them is to go to court. I tell them to forget the resolution service and to go to court. At least through the court process they will get certainty and they will have a decision within 6 months\u2014and if they go to the court, they can claim back damages, legal costs, and the cost of consultants. With this Minister\u2019s Weathertight Homes Resolution Service, people do not get any of the things they would get in a court. They do not get certainty, they do not receive costs, and they certainly cannot claim back the expenses of lawyers and consultants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a68ff368ca4748a59158678a1d297782\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a68ff368ca4748a59158678a1d297782\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. There have been roughly 40 minutes in this debate, including the Minister\u2019s time taken to introduce this bill. Twenty minutes of that time has been spent on an indication and an explanation of this bill. Unfortunately, for the other 20 minutes all we have heard is criticism of the bill\u2014no solutions, other than that of the member for Whangarei, who told us what he does and the advice that he gives to people who come to his office to see him about this issue, when they are considering utilising the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. Well, I can understand what happens when one stays on the Opposition benches for so long that one\u2019s positive sense of thinking is lost. For the last 10 minutes we have had an example of that. It is sad that, in spite of all those members\u2019 criticism, no positive alternative has been presented to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9219982e366440b926b5d259c05885e\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Perhaps you could give me some guidance. I spent 5 or 6 minutes of my speech talking about Standards New Zealand and how we could improve that. The member said that I gave no solutions. Could you give me some guidance as to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230d47e29fa7b40b2b40af1976468c37f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will be seated\u2014I am on my feet. That is a debatable issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242766b4bc3714c3e908fe332ecf37877\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de10b93a287942b88b14c3ab374005c3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a662d32d1680426b98013be59091e126\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, that is confirmation of what I said earlier on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs has been mentioned, this bill amends the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Act and, given the need to address the issues that have been identified since the passing of the original Act, I say on behalf of New Zealand First that this amendment bill is timely. It aims to improve the efficiency of the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service\u2014the same service that a number of speakers have criticised\u2014by speeding up and streamlining the processing of the claims before the service. It will also hold those responsible for building leaky homes to account and enforce their contributions to the cost of remedial work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EIt is estimated that up to 15,000 homes may be leaky, with repairs likely to cost up to $1 billion. New Zealand First supports this legislation, as we believe the building industry needs a shake-up, although we fear that this bill may be too little, too late for many owners of leaky homes. The package seeks to address many of the problems encountered by claimants, which have been daunting enough in many cases for them to withdraw their claims and walk away from the process. We consider that to be unfair, when people build or buy houses in good faith and are then faced with the nightmare of leaky building syndrome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EUnder the proposed new system the time taken to process applications will be slashed by almost half, to an average of 8 months. There will be less scope for lawyers and experts to draw the processes out, and there is the suggestion that it will cut the time frame by even more than half. The definition of damage has been extended to include future damage as well as damage that has already occurred, allowing for a more accurate assessment of the final costs required to fix a house. However, there is a concern that financial assistance is limited to those who are unable to borrow from private lending institutions, which disadvantages those who have to rely on private loans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe bill requires territorial authorities to record claim and building consent information on the land information memorandum report. Such transparency is important in order to ensure that future homebuyers are aware of the history of their potential purchase. It is also important that the owners of leaky homes can record completed remedial work. Basically, the land information memorandum report will tell a story of the history of that particular home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAlso included in the bill is a change to the voting thresholds, to enable class action claims to be taken more easily by apartment owners. That is crucial, given that around 70 percent of claimants fall within that category. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe public has a right to expect that professionals in the building and construction industry are just that\u2014professional. The building practitioner licensing scheme needs to be robust and to ensure that work is carried out to acceptable standards and is approved by qualified and licensed inspectors. It is imperative that the quality of buildings, payment of subcontractors, and completion of work be guaranteed, and that the regulatory system, including the building consents process, does what it is supposed to do, which is to protect people from such disasters. Architects and building suppliers also need to accept their culpability in recommending designs and products that are obviously unsuitable for homes. This whole episode of leaky homes is a reminder of what can go wrong when there is insufficient protection for unsuspecting homeowners from unscrupulous building industry players. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThis fiasco is also an example of the end result of rampant free-market ideology, with its focus on deregulation and laissez-faire theories. Unfortunately, there are winners and losers in that situation. On such an uneven playing field, it is often the opportunistic cowboys who laugh all the way to the bank, while the mums and dads are left with the headaches and, of course, the repairs bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe deregulation of the industry also saw the decline of the apprenticeship scheme, the repercussions of which are still being felt today in the shortage of skilled and qualified trades people. That also closed career options for a whole cohort of young people, not the least of them being young M\u0101ori men who saw the building industry as a career option. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EHowever, the important thing now is to settle the claims in a timely fashion. If it is good enough for this Government and this House to support the timely settlements of claims made under the Treaty of Waitangi, then this situation should be no exception to that. Of course the claims should be addressed in a timely fashion, so that people can get on with their lives and hold those responsible to account. This initiative, along with the new building practitioner licensing scheme, will go some way towards providing a speedier claim resolution for those affected by leaky homes, and it will, hopefully, prevent this disaster from befalling future homebuyers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe consumer education campaign will play a central role in providing information to affected homeowners and prospective homebuyers, so that they can make sound purchasing decisions. It is therefore vital that the campaign be effective and wide reaching. New Zealand First, of course, will be monitoring that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe bill is certainly a step in the right direction. Should there be any \u201Cdevil in the detail\u201D or concerns about the effectiveness of the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service, then we would expect that to be picked up during the select committee process. Early eligibility reports need to be linked to an early upfront loan in order to get the necessary repairs completed. A question may also be asked with regard to limiting the term of availability as to when claims need to be addressed. Many affected homes are already reaching the 10-year limitation, and many in that position have not yet been discovered or reported. When a home is sold in the middle of the processing of a claim, the claim should automatically transfer to the new owner, to facilitate the required repairs. We support the proposal regarding invasive testing, which will be essential in order to ascertain the true extent of the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will be watching closely to make sure that the leaky buildings disaster does not recur in New Zealand. Because of the seriousness and importance of this issue, New Zealand First will also support the call from the Minister to have this bill put through the process in a timely manner. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u002241f7642fea6342468d681a44f473ca5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241f7642fea6342468d681a44f473ca5e\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. I am pleased to report to the House that the Green Party is right behind the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill. We know that this issue affects the lives of a large number of New Zealanders. By one count, around 15,000 households have problems costing close to $1 billion to repair. We know, too, that the homes built in the laissez-faire years of the 1990s are the worst affected\u2014coinciding with the deregulation of the building industry under the then National Government. The Hunn report in 2002 called what happened then a \u201Cmajor systemic breakdown across the entire building industry\u201D. No one escapes blame\u2014product designers and manufacturers, developers, builders, architects, central government, the Building Industry Authority, local authorities, real estate agents, and even some private owners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe explosive growth in building and development in the 1990s represented a great lost opportunity to upskill the industry and to prepare its workforce to build the future-proof homes we now need in the face of climate change and peak oil\u2014well-insulated, healthy, energy-efficient homes. As just one example of this, right now we need plenty of plumbers who are qualified and capable of installing tens of thousands of solar water heating units in homes and buildings around the country. But instead we have a huge shortage of anyone trained or qualified to carry out a job that will become more and more critical to our energy future and housing future over the next few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EEven worse, as far as I know, even now there is no national industry training plan in place to get the people we need skilled up and capable of carrying out not only solar water heating installation but a whole range of other tasks geared to maximising energy efficiency and reducing our dependence on oil and other unsustainable energy resources. Because of the lack of regulation and planning during the 1990s, we are now 10 to 15 years behind the rest of the world. This leaky building problem is icing on the cake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe second problem we have, beyond the simple fact the leaky building crisis happened, is that the resolution services that were set up in 2002 to provide a so-called speedy, flexible, and cost-effective assessment and claims resolution procedure has not delivered. Right from the start significant problems began to emerge, even with the first case in West Auckland, where the Waitakere City Council was left to carry the can and pay more than $40,000 damages to the owners of a Glendene home, because the builders said they had no money. This pattern was repeated over and over again. The council, obviously, was not particularly happy with the result, nor were the homeowners, who were left with legal bills of $16,000 and not enough money to fix their house. Further legal action dragged the case on even longer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ERight from this unfortunate start, things went from bad to worse. By June 2005 the New Zealand Herald reported a litany of delays, the endless dodging of responsibility by both Government and local government bodies, failed mediation, some claimants settling for less than the cost of repairs, and others ending up falling outside the 10-year time limit on claims. Of course, while all that has been happening, the people literally living with the problem have had to endure the personal and financial consequences of the original debacle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is therefore pleased that the Government has seen fit to carry out a review of the resolution services, and that it is now acting with reasonable speed, in terms of parliamentary process, to try to hasten solutions to the problems identified. We are pleased that the bill enlarges the definition of damage to include probable future damage resulting from the original problem, rather than just what already exists. We welcome the fact that the bill gives an option for a more comprehensive assessor\u2019s report, thereby reducing the need to involve expensive expert witnesses, and that it creates a new weathertight homes tribunal within the Ministry of Justice, to enhance the independence and authority of the adjudication services. The Greens also appreciate the provision of a fast-track process for low-value claims, the class action approach for multi-unit complexes, and the promotion of a more investigative approach by the adjudicators, which enhances their powers to be proactive during hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E We do, however, have just a couple of initial concerns with the legislation. In 2002 my colleague Sue Kedgley was recommending the scrapping of the 10-year liability period for claims. This continues to be our position. Any home identified as a leaky home should be eligible to use the service. Liability should cover houses and apartments built between 1991 and 2004. We also hold some concerns that claimants will be disadvantaged by the operation of confidentiality clauses during mediation. I imagine that the select committee will receive submissions reflecting these and, I am sure, other concerns. I look forward to being part of the committee process in terms of refining and improving this bill before it comes back to the House later this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EJust before I finish, I would like to raise one other issue that I think a colleague from the M\u0101ori Party might also raise in a moment. I note with interest the speed with which the Government has picked up and taken action on this problem\u2014a problem that mainly affects reasonably well-off people in cities like Auckland and Wellington. I am very conscious of the realities of housing for other people who live in places like Tai R\u0101whiti and Northland\u2014where people live in papak\u0101inga housing, in old M\u0101ori Affairs housing, and in other places\u2014where there is not the same sense of urgency. People are living in houses where the floors have rotted through under the kitchen and bathroom, in garages and milking sheds, or under dinghies. Some people are just sleeping out or living in overcrowded or hopelessly substandard accommodation of all sorts with no hope of any substantial or real help from the Government to fix their housing crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ETheir housing crisis has been there for sometimes over 100 years, or longer. Their housing crisis continues for them every day, and I think that in this Parliament not enough of us are speaking for those people. I would beg the Government to consider taking more action more rapidly and putting more priority on to the needs of all people in those districts and in other places, such as South Auckland, as well, where people continue to live in accommodation that is beyond the imagination of most people in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, in conclusion I say that we are happy that this bill is going forward, and what I have just said should not detract from the worth of this particular legislation. We have no hesitation in supporting this bill through rapid processes in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00224a42347a6051428e8a7c900c29b9f005\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a42347a6051428e8a7c900c29b9f005\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe te Kaik\u014Drero o te Whare. In the mid-1980s a Te Awamutu lad, Neil Finn, created a band that produced one of the all-time favourite New Zealand songs. That band, appropriately called Crowded House, released the hit \u201CDon\u2019t Dream it\u2019s Over\u201D. The No. 1 hit song described a hole in the roof, and trying to catch a deluge in a paper cup, and ended:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a battle ahead, many battles are lost, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EBut you\u2019ll never see the end of the road\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWhile you\u2019re travelling with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIt is a theme song that may well sum up the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill. The expression of hope amidst the battles of a vast, alienated world reflects also the faith of tangata whenua that despite the persistent M\u0101ori housing crisis they will see the end of the road. It is an expression of faith that we will carry into this latest scheme to provide homeowners with a more effective alternative to the courts for the resolution of leaking buildings claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIt is an expression of faith that has endured through the decades. And it has literally been decades in which M\u0101ori have endured leaky homes, houses that are far from weathertight, substandard houses, and poor housing conditions. In the 1920s M\u0101ori housing was restricted to urban, pepper-potted situations. Tangata whenua were forbidden from building on their own land. Instead, they had either to sell or swap their land in order to obtain a deposit to live somewhere else. In the 1930s funding was used to replace dilapidated housing with housing that was both smaller and on a much simpler scale than State-sponsored P\u0101keh\u0101 housing. Indeed, until the late 1940s M\u0101ori families were outcasts, excluded from mainstream State housing on the grounds that their presence would allegedly \u201Clower the tone\u201D of State housing communities. It is what we call \u201Cprivilege\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ad5c0b7f9f54a2b947308df10d62727\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Which Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4fa59362c5b43e4a61b316b03e0865a\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: National. We remember our people\u2019s homes at Bastion Point being burnt down because the Queen was coming. Finally, in 1948 M\u0101ori were concentrated into communities characterised by high M\u0101ori deprivation; areas such as Porirua and South Auckland\u2014interestingly, the same areas that the New Zealand Police is targeting with its Taser gun trial. The scheme, administered by State Advances and the Department of M\u0101ori Affairs, in effect created ghettos of M\u0101ori housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EYet, through it all, M\u0101ori communities had faith that their housing aspirations would be realised, that their battles would be won, that the lack of insulation, floor coverings, floor space, quality paint, wall coverings, concreting, fencing, sewerage, and community facilities would one day be part of a nightmare that they had survived through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ESo, although we support the goal of addressing the leaky building crisis, in many ways we have a certain amount of irony in doing so, for, as the homes of tangata whenua would reveal, concerns around the weathertightness of buildings in New Zealand existed long before 2002, when the Building Industry Authority raised concerns regarding leaky houses. To misquote another Finn hit, the housing experience of M\u0101ori has been far more than \u201Csix months in a leaky home\u201D. The homes of tangata whenua, for decades, have shown signs of damage from water leaking into the house from the outside. They have suffered from the use of untreated timber. They have borne the impact of monolithic cladding systems that retain moisture. The houses of tangata whenua have been built with inadequate or poorly constructed flashings around doors and windows. And tangata whenua have had to put up with musty smells, with wet or rotting carpet, with paint blistering, wallpaper peeling or cracking, and visible water damage embellishing their family homes. So although for some sectors these so-called leaky homes are a relatively recent phenomenon, for M\u0101ori communities it has been with us for ever, ake ake, tonu ake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E Almost 50 years ago, in 1959, the Young Maori Leaders Conference unanimously endorsed M\u0101ori housing as the most crucial issue of the hui. In rural areas particularly, the housing stock owned or occupied by tangata whenua is often of poor quality and often poorly provided with the usual facilities. These problems are made even more complex by difficulties of remoteness and access, which serve to increase the costs of construction. If this House were seriously to review the situation of generations of deprivation as reflected in the M\u0101ori housing crisis, we would all be seriously embarrassed at the priority given to the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIf members of this House were to travel to the Bay of Plenty, up to Northland, and up the East Coast, they would be appalled. The Cooperative Housing Association of Aotearoa New Zealand has identified at least 5,000 substandard houses in Northland alone. About 4 year ago, when I was the Associate Minister of Housing, we reviewed the housing situation in the Northland, East Coast, and Bay of Plenty areas. There was a lot of caution about exposing the issues surrounding the quality of the building materials, the workmanship, the assessment of the work authorised at local body level, and public health\u2014sewage disposal. Walls were rotting from the internal panels; they were like polyurethaned Weetbix. Many of the people were fastidiously clean, but their floors still rotted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI recall the statement of an official about the situation in a small M\u0101ori community in the Bay of Plenty: \u201CIf this were to happen to white middle-class people there would be hell to pay.\u201D In Rukumoana the situation was so extreme that sewerage was seeping over the lawns and coming up into the sinks of houses through the piping. People could not get the council even to pick up their rubbish, as the council did not want to offend\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Ctheir redneck ratepayers\u201D. Funnily enough, none of these Northland, East Coast, and Bay of Plenty areas benefited from a change in compensation or in legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWhile the provisions for assessment reports, negotiation, processes for resolutions, and strengthened adjudication services are all very helpful, the M\u0101ori Party must draw the attention of this House to the deteriorating conditions, which cannot be overstated. The Social Report 2006 has highlighted that the proportion of low-income households spending more than 30 percent of their income on housing is over twice as high as it was in 1988. Among these, M\u0101ori are highly overrepresented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIt was precisely because of the severity of this crisis that a group of eight agencies\u2014including the North Hokianga Housing Trust, the Cooperative Housing Association of Aotearoa New Zealand, and the Child Poverty Action Group\u2014got together in 2003 and made a submission for the New Zealand report to the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. That submission reported: \u201CThere continue to be real problems of social exclusion and poverty in New Zealand, manifested in an affordable housing crisis. We contend the situation is far worse than the Government accepts. Figures show that rising overcrowding impacts on Pacific families, in South Auckland, in particular. Overcrowding is associated with poor health status and respiratory diseases, infectious disease and psychological stress.\u201D The conclusion from this group of social service providers was that \u201Cremediation of sub-standard housing has not, on the whole, delivered sustainable outcomes that take into account the realities of impoverished, under-developed regional communities.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is not in the practice of comparing one oppression with another, of contrasting one case of deprivation with others. But when will the very real difficulties in the housing experiences of M\u0101ori, of Pasifika, of low-income communities in Aotearoa emerge as a worthy, serious consideration? Housing is essential to survival, to dignity, to individual and wh\u0101nau well-being. Our homes are key to our sense of security; they are our havens to nurture and bring up families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe have many proverbs that speak to the central role that stable housing plays in the lives of M\u0101ori. One recorded by White in 1887 gives particular insight: \u201CKo ng\u0101 tama whakatamatama a T\u0101ne, motu te nganahau.\u201D\u2014the bold and daring sons of T\u0101ne, defiant of the storm. It literally reinforces the value of strong houses built of bark and wood of trees from the forest of T\u0101ne. It reminds us of consumer protection, of the need to address the persistent deprivation. The M\u0101ori Party stands today to inform the House that we will indeed stand tall if the Government honours its obligations to respect, protect, and fulfil economic, social, and cultural rights by ensuring that the basic entitlement to housing remains intact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc3abf4a1d0b4d868b099ae8c1e17d57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc3abf4a1d0b4d868b099ae8c1e17d57\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I rise on behalf of United Future to speak in support of the first reading of the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill. I will be brief; I have a touch of laryngitis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe consider the intentions of this bill worthy of support to be referred to the select committee for consideration. In particular, we are pleased to read of the intention to streamline processes so that claims can be dealt with in a more timely manner. We are pleased that the legislation appears to be a genuine desire to tidy up many of the mechanisms that have been in obvious need of parliamentary legal tweaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EIn particular, we welcome the inclusion of information on land information memorandum reports regarding the fact that a property has been subject to a claim. There have been some very real concerns about the fact that the current provisions mean that successful claimants receive compensation, not restitution. That places claimants under no obligation to use any money received to fix the damage. The leaky home problem is exacerbated when compensation is pocketed rather than used for repairs. We will indeed, as has been highlighted by other people, still be debating this issue in 15 to 20 years\u2019 time if our New Zealand housing stock, both privately and publicly owned, is blighted with unhealthy flaws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future is happy to support the first reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b209c66d0f4288b101d50ab4fa0666\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Bob Clarkson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1bbb76c2c1c447ab75d11ce8f335b08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1bbb76c2c1c447ab75d11ce8f335b08\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Honourable is the correct word! I feel a bit nude today\u2014there are no TV cameras around, and that is something I am used to and you guys are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef00e23db6664f8a86e4148596c09c72\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: When the member uses the word \u201Cyou\u201D he brings the Speaker into the debate. He must refer to \u201Cthe members\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022557a4019c07246b29c8c6519c117bb31\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI am pleased to talk on the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill. This is too little, too late and it is in the wrong direction. Mr Cosgrove set up a bad management system to deal with leaky homes in the first instance. The Government has wasted millions of dollars and achieved very few results. That is a fact. At this moment approximately 400 leaky home problems have been solved. This is a very slow process. The first 400 homes reported as \u201Csorted out\u201D have cost taxpayers approximately $80,000 each for the regulatory board, yet the average repair bill is only $72,000. That is crazy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThe system set up to deal with the problem of leaky homes is a mess. For example, an order by the leaky homes committee can be given to a contractor to pay the homeowner a certain amount of dollars. This money is paid to the owner before the work is done. That is ridiculous. The owner can paint over the wet spots and sell the house with no repairs done. There are at least 45 cases in the last 400 resolutions. That is ridiculous. Those houses are now in for a second claim. Mr Cosgrove has a lot to answer for. What a stupid law that does not say that the money should be paid out when the repairs are completed! That is a normal business practice. I do not know who fouled that one up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI have travelled around New Zealand to see many leaky homes. As a builder myself, they bring tears to my eyes. Why did this happen? We have a Minister who has made faulty laws, and must have received bad advice for this to have been allowed to happen. If he made the decisions himself, I ask why we have a public relations person who knows nothing about buildings and construction making up rules with no good advice. Why do we not have Ministers who are experienced in their roles making decisions? I suppose it is a common problem in the Labour Government. It lacks real people. For example, we have a history teacher who is the finance Minister. We have a vet who is the health Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThis Government needs to wake up. We have briefcase developers with shelf companies in the construction field, building shoddy houses and not paying for any mishaps. I say to Mr Cosgrove that he should wake up and fix the situation. When National is the Government I will show you how to do it. I suggest you talk to real builders in the field and get some facts. Unfortunately, as a public relations man you might not be able to understand the facts as they are laid on the table. You do not fix a problem\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220abf18554e9b4814ad8f9244c21ac8a2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already said to the member that every time he uses the expression \u201Cyou\u201D he is referring to the Chair. The member must refer to the Minister or another member as \u201Cthe Minister\u201D or \u201Cthe member\u201D\u2014that is, in the third person. I refer the member to Standing Order 103. He cannot bring the Speaker into the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9175eeb12424539892d33622ff1e917\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Righto, we will try again. I talk from the heart, you see; that is the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, as a public relations man Mr Cosgrove might not be able to understand the facts if they were laid on the table. Mr Cosgrove cannot fix the problem by charging $250 for the standards information book dealing with NZS 3640. The book used to cost $20 and every builder or tradesman had one. Mr Cosgrove cannot fix the problem by wrapping everything in bureaucratic tape. Builders should be given guidelines and be allowed to make some decisions within those guidelines. If Mr Cosgrove wraps everything up in red tape and charges $250 for an instruction book, the builder loses interest and does not have to think. Let them think, let them be accountable, and they will decide their own destiny and pay for the mistakes they make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EWe need a bill to show and mean business. Briefcase builders should pay; they should not hide from shoddy work. In my travels around the country I have seen some large complexes that are leaking because of bad workmanship. These complexes are not being fixed by the original briefcase builder. He has made his money and is hiding behind the company\u2019s name. The sad situation is that I stood on the roof of one of these complexes\u2014at the Mount, actually\u2014that is leaking badly, and one of the owners pointed to a construction building site approximately 300 metres down the road where the same builder was building another building, even though he had not repaired the original complex. The law is an ass. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Cosgrove that he should please fix this bill for the sake of all New Zealanders. Homeowners are frustrated, and some have had severe medical problems caused by the pressure of getting their houses, their dreams, and their finances sorted out. National will support this bill to the select committee, and then we will fire some big guns to make sure it is done right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EI make a few little suggestions to the uninformed. There is a camera available at the moment that can X-ray walls. I do not know whether members know this, but if one points the camera at the wall, the screen will show studs, nails, and water inside that wall. It is as simple as that. I have used this camera myself on a trial. It costs approximately $850 to do a full house inspection. They check the whole house for $850. This means we could test 4,000 houses under claim at the moment for the small amount of $3.4 million\u2014way under what it is costing at the moment. This final test could be completed on the houses, which could save many second claims. There is no need to do invasive testing. That just wrecks the house and does not get to the truth. A camera can test the lot inside the walls. The camera can test all the work done and give a final pass if this work is completed properly. We need a better, faster process. I consider that this camera is the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003EThis bill will not speed things up because every claim will not be a final claim. I estimate we will still be dealing with these claims in more than 25 years\u2019 time. Let us get the bill right. I want all claims to be final, and this final report to be put on the land information memorandum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ab97812f5f46cf83d118664be0d789\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why aren\u2019t the members listening to him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c963726213c4779add2eafec8f7ab60\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Members should listen carefully. I do not want to be dealing with this bill in 2 years\u2019 time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c4c81e192af46dcaeee4bf273b49931\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know this may not be the most gripping speech, but it is a bit much for the member\u2019s own caucus to be holding a caucus meeting right next to him when he is speaking. I mean, give the man a chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc49c714645847c88344c3e3e7121cf6\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: My colleagues have come down to the House because this is an important debate. Our member Bob Clarkson has some expertise in this area, and you can see that they have come in to support him. That is what they are here for. The Minister said that this is a caucus. Our caucus is a very big caucus, if I can remind the Minister, and when they all get down here he will see how big it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f88faa40a7d4a55a67957b1a47fedd5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say to members that it is a longstanding convention in this House that members should not conduct conversations in the House unless it is necessary to do so, and then only so as not to disturb the proceedings of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffc4e29da6fd40f69e9175089bd34f41\u0022\u003EBOB CLARKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your wise counsel, Mr Speaker. I will just repeat that I want all claims to be final, and the final report to be put on the land information memorandum. I do not want to be dealing with this bill in 2 years\u2019 time when I am a Minister in the Government. [Interruption] If members will just keep quiet, they will hear the good bit. National supports this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecd58b40d1864d1097e06eed2cead042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecd58b40d1864d1097e06eed2cead042\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E Members have heard contributions from experts in the field on the Opposition side of the House. We had the Hon Dr Nick Smith, who has an interest in the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service. He was able to crystallise and articulate arguments about the shortcomings of this bill\u2014a bill that is too late and too short\u2014and articulate where National would be looking to make changes to it in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWe heard from Phil Heatley, who is our spokesman on housing and has taken an immense interest in the issues surrounding housing within New Zealand. He talked about how we should be looking at standards, and how standards, which are not in this bill, should be incorporated in it. If there were to be any measure of success, and any measure of progress that needs to be achieved by this amendment legislation, then we should look at incorporating standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EMy colleague Bob Clarkson probably knows more about the building industry than anybody in this House. He has probably built more buildings than we could ever count, and has been associated with major developments. So he has an understanding of the core elements and core values that are necessary to build a building that will stand the test of time, will last for a long, long time, and will not have the problems that homeowners and those in residential properties are having to contend with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAs I said before, this bill is too late and does not go far enough. If we look at some of the statistics, we will see that the cost of going to mediation is $80,000 per house. Yet what is the average cost of carrying out the repairs? It is $72,000. Why does it cost more to get an answer than to do the work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cff31c4fabd4e969176366052b15df6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That is Labour!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ab62c8c3b194f98844ff6a54a1c439c\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there we are. All the compliance costs that go into this are absolutely outrageous. The issues for the victims\u2014those who have the problems with housing and leaky homes\u2014should be addressed and the money should be put into those resources. Victims should not be handicapped and shackled because of the bureaucracy that it takes to deal with the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThere are 15,000 claims outstanding. Do members know that on the basis of the rate of claims lodged at the moment and those that are settled, it will take 75 years to clear those claims? Where is the Government\u2019s priority for those people who are affected by leaky homes? This bill is, as I said, too short and too late. It does not go anywhere. The Minister is building up a bureaucracy that will not solve the issues we have identified. In fact, over the last year 200 claims were settled, but how many claims were lodged at the same time? I ask members to guess how many claims were lodged. I tell members that 584 claims were lodged, more than double the number that were actually resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237353ce7b4c741a19081bff302dda2a7\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: That means the problem is getting worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f8a63d61274d6ebce3e056dac5de66\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: The problem is getting worse, as I said and as my colleague identifies very correctly. There are 15,000 outstanding claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWe have looked at what this bill does, and as my colleague Bob Clarkson said, we will be supporting its referral to the select committee. But I can tell members that very close scrutiny will be given to how it will work and how it will impact on those people who have put their money at risk. This issue concerns their pension, this concerns their superannuation, and they should expect something better than this. In the last 7 years the Government has done absolutely nothing to help those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ELet us see what the Government is going to do under this legislation. Well, it is to change the name of the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service that is operating now. It is to create another organisation that will be called the Weathertight Homes Tribunal. How will a tribunal fix the problem that these homeowners have? We already have the Weathertight Homes Resolution Service, so why do we need\u2014and this is a key change in the bill\u2014\u201Ca new Weathertight Homes Tribunal to provide strengthened adjudication services:\u201D? How will that help those people out there with leaky homes? This Government is stuffing around and is not being serious about the issue, and those people are bleeding. They do not have money, and they are living in homes that are leaking. That leads to adverse health effects\u2014people are getting sick because they are living in those environments\u2014yet the Government is mucking around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ELet us look at the other key changes in the bill. \u201CA wider scope of claims \u2026\u201D will be included. Well, that is great, but how does it actually help the 15,000 people who now have claims waiting to be assessed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aceb90674c3a49ea839513f108ff4205\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Read the bill!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fba26da012f44f9b6cbead451109de4\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: I have the bill\u2014I am quoting from it. Let us look at the provision for \u201Ca low-value claims process\u201D. That is all right; I have no problem with that. The change to \u201Ca class action approach to claims\u201D is OK. But \u201Cimproved processes and case management.\u201D\u2014what does that actually mean? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAlthough we support this bill going to the select committee stage\u2014with reservations, I might add\u2014we give notice that we want very robust and transparent legislation that will help all the people who are affected by this problem. The degree of frustration amongst homeowners is growing; it is becoming quite extreme. We are not prepared to accept that. This bill tinkers at the edges only, and in the select committee we will make sure we get the robustness and transparency that we believe is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EBuying a home is probably the biggest investment one ever makes. It takes years to get a home. We know how difficult it is to become a homeowner, so when somebody finds fault with his or her place because it has not been built right\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259dc7d9d10124d3487b2a883fe0ba356\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Bad tiling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223217730008b54166a4cfda659485cd96\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: It could be bad tiling, or it could be the plumbing; it could be a number of issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2162afad2c4605985bfadc2822e6e5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Cheap tiling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b521c4a98134023bbb00a7f6b20a819\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: It could be cheap tiling. Those things could lead to those deficiencies. Homeowners do not have expertise regarding building. A homeowner does not necessarily have the expertise required to know whether a house is being built correctly. Homeowners rely on the reliability and professionalism of those tradespeople whose job it is to build it\u2014that is what tradespeople are employed to do. We put our faith in them. It is only someone like Bob Clarkson, who has an understanding of the industry and can see where the rorts are, who actually knows how to build correctly. He has been a practitioner\u2014he is a practitioner\u2014and he knows exactly how buildings should be built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E This is important legislation. We do not believe that just tinkering at the edges of the process will improve the lot of the 15,000 claimants who are affected today. We do not believe that this bill goes far enough to be able to expedite their claims. There is money at risk. Those people are concerned about their livelihoods and their investments. A house is probably the biggest investment they will ever make, and it is important we get this legislation right. As Mr Clarkson said, we do not want to come back here in a couple of years\u2019 time to sort out more problems. At that stage National will be in Government, and I can tell members that we will sort it out then. But let us sort it out now. We have an opportunity to do so. We have the expertise, and we know what has to be done. Let us make sure, during the select committee process, that we make this legislation work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022f440081f876d4c5e92e1501d60b3d9f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f440081f876d4c5e92e1501d60b3d9f3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Weathertight Homes Resolution Services Amendment Bill be considered by the Social Services Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 4 December 2006, and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 192 and 195(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225976d1be1e5e49fc97805ef8d7db9555\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dea0b7f1d8a84f7487a7abd45629a38b\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f3feaa2a00644dab31786669ab69367\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5f94fd27d9d4c51ba9d9b3bac031038\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2af6723d2314e9dacfb42b30db49956\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2af6723d2314e9dacfb42b30db49956\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to clause 1, the title, in our discussion of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. When we look at the words \u201Cemployment relations\u201D and think about them, we know that the relationship we have with our employers is among some of the most important relationships we have in our lives. But this bill, single-handedly, makes it easier for an employer to get out of the Mafia than to move on and change an employment relationship with a staff member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EI would like to remind members in the Chamber of the reasons we are here debating this bill. It results from the case of a Dunedin firm, actually, Crest Commercial Cleaning Ltd, which was taken to court because it wanted to take on a cleaning contract for the Dunedin Kindergarten Association. That association had loyally stood by a number of cleaning staff members for some years, but over a period of time the standard of cleaning had become so appalling that the association felt that the health of the children who attended those kindergartens was at risk. It complained that some of those kindergartens were left in an unsanitary situation, so in certain circumstances the association was almost at the point of having to close those kindergartens because the cleaning was so bad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EBut on the issue of employment relations, the Government is telling New Zealanders that the relationship is of greater importance than the standard of the work. The Government is saying that for a kindergarten to have such substandard cleaning is OK, and that the employment relationship is far more important. Crest Commercial Cleaning wanted to take over the contract after that contract had been terminated. The kindergarten association did not break the contract; it waited loyally until the end of that contract. The association thought it was fine and hired a new company. The new company came in, took over, but\u2014hello\u2014the staff members took it to court, backed by the union movement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThis is telling Kiwis that it is OK for people not to do their work well, and to put other New Zealanders\u2019 health at risk, yet still they will keep their jobs. If we look at the cleaning business, we see that about 90 percent of what is important in that business is the standard of work done by individuals. If the individual cannot work well, then the Government is saying that that is OK\u2014that that is not the important point there. Under this new legislation, a cleaner could be the worst cleaner in the world, the worst staff member in the world, but still have what equates to a fixed employee/employer relationship. The Dunedin Kindergarten Association did not want to be in a position where it hired staff members; that is why it got contractors in. And it was a total shock to the association to find itself in the situation where, effectively, it was the employer of those cleaners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe Government wants to paint a picture that this bill is all about vulnerable workers, and if we look at the rhetoric around it we can see that it is basically a whole bunch of euphemisms. It talks about vulnerable workers, and about restructuring, when in fact we are looking at ending fixed-term contracts and moving on to new business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIf the Government were really serious about employment relationships, it would be thinking about the mums and dads who run those cleaning franchises. The Government wants to give the impression that this is all about big, nasty, corporate cleaning companies. Well, it is not. The average value of a cleaning contract in this country is around $8,000, and mums and dads take on franchise opportunities, earning only $20 an hour if they are working for themselves. They have independent businesses. They go out and get those small contracts, and use that work to put bread and butter on their own family\u2019s table. This bill, effectively, makes them responsible for somebody else\u2019s staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIf the aim is to retain the positions of those staff members who do not have work as a result of a contract, then they should be allowed to stay with the companies involved. That would make sense. If the Government is serious about employment relationships, then why does it not keep the employment relationship between the staff member and the initial employer? Why force that staff member to be taken on by a company the staff member does not know, and why should a firm take on staff it does not know, if the quality of service is to be maintained? Lianne Dalziel gave us a lecture about business compliance costs; this bill adds the biggest compliance cost for those businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00229158620bd6fa492f87d2ee0071931279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229158620bd6fa492f87d2ee0071931279\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next speaker, I say that I should have given some guidance at the outset. This bill is a clause by clause bill. It is in clauses, so therefore the discussions should relate strictly to those clauses. Clause 1 is about the title, which has four words in it. I ask that members confine themselves to the title, on its own, from here on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228ca9b0230b454ae098b34d549fc6b667\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ca9b0230b454ae098b34d549fc6b667\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for that clarification. I know that my colleague has a lot of expertise and experience in various businesses, and she has been able to articulate that and show how the impact of employment relationships has affected the viability of businesses. When we look at the title and the words \u201Cemployment relations\u201D, one of the questions one needs to ask is whether those relations are favourable relations for the staff who are to be employed. Are they relationships that will cause a business, possibly, to have to retrench, or even to close down? It is all very well talking about vulnerable workers, but in terms of this bill\u2014and I know that over the years there have been a number of amendments to employment relations legislation\u2014we really have to look at the impact of what the bill means, and whether the title is applicable and says what the bill means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWe often judge a book by its title. Maybe we should not do that, but when I go into a news agency and want to buy a magazine, I will be looking at what the title is in order to see whether it sparks an interest for me to say I will buy the magazine\u2014or newspaper, or book\u2014and read it. That is so when I go to the library or whatever. So the title in itself is a marketing tool. It is one of those things that grabs the imagination. With that in mind, the title of the bill should really reflect in essence what the bill is about, because if it does not then it is misleading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the Employment Relations Amendment Bill provisions, I see that although it is meant to protect vulnerable workers what will happen is that businesses that may be contracting may be disadvantaged. We used the cleaning example because the National Party minority view on page 4 of the report of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, which I draw the Minister\u2019s attention to, is very clear. It gives practical examples of a cleaning contract whereby if a business was to win a contract, it would have to take on the staff of the outgoing contractor. Is that fair? I would say that is grossly unfair, because the terms and conditions of a new contract arrangement between the business that is being contracted for by the provider of a service will be affected very much by the calibre of those people who are there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESo when I look at the title of the bill, I would say that this bill should be called the \u201CEmployment Relations to Undermine Businesses Amendment Bill\u201D. We are a nation of small businesses. In fact, 80 percent of all businesses in New Zealand employ fewer than five people. So, to my mind, when I read through this bill\u2014and I have looked at it very closely, I can assure members of that\u2014I see that it does not do the worker any good whatsoever, because it puts shackles on the employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI see that the Chairman is keen that I talk more about the bill in this particular area, and I am happy to do that. The bill makes it difficult for employers to say they will go for a contract, knowing that when they are to take over a new contract\u2014let us say in the cleaning industry\u2014there are existing staff. As we are a nation of small businesses, a lot of family-owned businesses will be affected by that. I believe that a lot of workers whom we are trying to protect with this legislation will actually be disadvantaged. So another name for this bill could be the \u201CEmployment Relations Heading to Redundancy Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e6f3a654e904db98e4e4122928963d8\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022348d04d0d63a4e03bf171da656b082f4\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is quite a good name: the \u201CEmployment Relations Heading to Redundancy Bill\u201D. With that in mind, when we look at how businesses work we see that the problem with this Government is that it has never got its feet on the ground. It does not know what makes businesses tick. It has never put an investment in business. It has never taken the risks. Yet it is telling businesses here that this is what they have to do. It is not about employment relations. Employment relations should encompass not only employees but employers. If we want a win-win situation, to get the best, and to add to productivity\u2014although this Government knows absolutely nothing about productivity in the workplace\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc424759a5ca47eb9bde0c0da0e76a14\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How much do they know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223013f51002ef451dbbfc4bac193b125c\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they do not know very much, at all. That is why the Labour Party is on its way out, and its members will all be looking for new employment opportunities themselves, looking at the polls today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022fabee8308e6740adab6bc3db19a05ee0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fabee8308e6740adab6bc3db19a05ee0\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to talk to the title of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I feel it is appropriate to come up with a suggestion myself for a title to this bill. Looking back to the year 2000, when the Employment Relations Act was introduced, I see this is the 14th amendment to it since then. So my suggestion is that we call this bill the \u201CEmployment Relations Too Many Amendments Bill\u201D. The reality is that time has been taken up by the Government on those amendments. There has been so much wrongdoing going on that we have to look at employment relations amendments because the Government could get them right the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th, or 13th time. The bill should be called the \u201CEmployment Relations 14th Amendment Bill\u201D. The reality is that this Government and this Parliament are having their time taken up by trying to continually fix the mess that was made the first time round. In fact, how many times have we been trying to fix it? It is 14 times, now. This is the \u201CEmployment Relations 14th Amendment Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EOf course, the reason we are here to discuss the title of the \u201CEmployment Relations 14th Amendment Bill\u201D is that we have a situation where employment relations are not being fixed, at all. How can Labour members call it employment relations when what they are actually doing is to undermine businesses? When will this Government understand that by undermining a business it undermines its employees, as well? The issue is about the employees at the end of the day, just as it is about the business owners as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe title of this bill makes a mockery of what we should try to accomplish for our people in terms of employment relations. When we look at what is happening in the relationship between employees and employers, we see that they wish to talk to each other. Constantly, through these amendments, we have regulations that set in practice law that stops people from communicating. We have unions stepping up and saying they can do better than the poor employees can. The unions say employees cannot advocate for themselves and had better let the unions do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe are about empowering people to have that obligation. On reading the entire bill\u2014as I was unfortunately doing this morning in order to look at the amendments and at how the title would fit in with the bill\u2014I was absolutely gobsmacked yet again to read the sort of language used about good faith and about the imbalance of power between employers and employees. I wonder what sort of world we are living in, when we have unemployment levels at 3.9 percent and employees are in a position now where they can advocate for themselves and stand up and say what they are worth. But instead, the Labour Government constantly turns round and says it knows what is best for them\u2014that they do not know that. It says it knows where they should be working and what they are worth\u2014that they do not know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe National Party says yes, employees do know that and they are actually worth a lot. National says employees have a lot to offer and a lot to give, not just to business but to this country. We turn around and ask employees to let us empower them to make decisions that are right for them, instead of turning around and saying they are too thick to advocate for themselves, which is the constant message the workers of this country receive from the current Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E So when we turn round and look at a title like \u201CEmployment Relations (This is the Fourth) Amendment Bill\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcbec009c64347e8acc516c85021133a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: 14th.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c10df04d0f34a1982f7ed8a7e1a8e5d\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4f901496804e6bb8d38523f628e2d2\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6398ea1a0e4b7f897df0dcc08a76b9\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: There have been 14 amendments? I did say \u201C4\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e80638bb493409c93a768356bb95915\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: Because you couldn\u2019t believe it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224760ae0fe56e4e59aad2cb0eb36d200e\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I could not believe there have been 14 amendments. I had to sit there and count them up again. I had to get someone else to count them for me, because I could not believe that we were on the 14th amendment to the principal Act. When we look at those sorts of amendments, we have to ask how much we are going to continue to regulate a workforce that does know what is best for itself. There is room, we say, for the bigger employers\u2014and we were looking at cleaning companies, and so on\u2014to have in place legislation that helps them to achieve what they want to do. We believe in employees\u2019 rights. They do have a right to work in safe environments, and to be treated fairly\u2014all those sorts of things. But employees have strength now. They have strength in their numbers and strength in the fact that they are needed. No one knows that better than the business owner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u002247ce3330ac7841bb8be95476e9832a05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247ce3330ac7841bb8be95476e9832a05\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f1ec375273f54e67942a7b9020504b83\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227a50ec8c438148a0b07de66cf9f6a0f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ddc14c61b28a49869cd19156bcce8f48\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022399e41195fea47edb0ee5e6d24686c34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022399e41195fea47edb0ee5e6d24686c34\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to draw members\u2019 attention to my Supplementary Order Paper 54 where there is an amendment to the commencement date in relation to some provisions in that Supplementary Order Paper. It reads: \u201CTo omit all the words in lines 4 and 5 on page 2 and substitute the following subclauses: (1) The following provisions come into force 3 months after the date on which this Act receives the Royal assent: (a) subpart 1A of Part 6A of the principal Act (as inserted by section 4 of this Act); and (b) sections 5A and 5B of this Act. (2) The rest of this Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe primary legislation, which we are debating this evening, will come into force the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent. That is appropriate, given that the sole purpose of the primary legislation is to ensure that the law is clear and reflects the original policy intent, as it was designed to do. That was not the case in reference to the appeal that my colleague Katherine Rich referred to earlier. That appeal overturned the original policy intent of the legislation, and that is why we are looking at an amendment before the Committee today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EHowever, in my Supplementary Order Paper I am proposing a new procedure under the vulnerable workers legislation by which we ensure that employers are not tendering blind. Because this is a new provision it has not been before a select committee, but it has certainly been raised before the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. My colleague from New Zealand First Peter Brown has made representations to me on this very issue. But the fact that it was not notified as an amendment prior to the Supplementary Order Paper in my view warrants the consideration of the \u201C3 months\u201D date, and that is why it is set out on my Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u00220147eb802b1c401c8b2b6fe3a152a3c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220147eb802b1c401c8b2b6fe3a152a3c6\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very interested in the Minister Ruth Dyson\u2019s passing comments about vulnerable workers, because section 69E(5) in clause 4 of this bill talks about airport workers, cleaners, and food workers being vulnerable workers. But if a Thai tiler is paid less than the average wage to tile someone\u2019s house, somehow that person is not a vulnerable worker but a professional person who is able to establish whether he or she enters into a contract. A lot of the comments that we have just heard about vulnerable workers do not ring true when day after day we have seen the Minister defend the indefensible in terms of the treatment of those particular workers. She can dance on the head of a pin all she likes, but it does not look good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EWe are talking about the commencement date in this part of the debate. The Minister has just outlined some changes to certain parts of the commencement date for certain provisions, and that is just another indication that this bill was not properly drafted in the first place. We have seen, time after time, this Parliament being asked to turn back to the Employment Relations Act of 2000 to amend it\u2014not just once, or twice. I heard before that it has been amended 14 times. These last-minute changes to the commencement date just show the lack of rigour that has been used in the development of the Government\u2019s legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EMost of the small cleaning businesses I have spoken to would say that regardless of when the commencement date is, it does not matter to them one iota\u2014they do not want any commencement date. They do not want to be put in a position where they fall heir to somebody else\u2019s shoddy workers. Usually, cleaning contracts change hands because the cleaning is substandard\u2014as we saw in the Dunedin kindergartens. Those kindergartens were so badly cleaned that in some cases the management considered closing them because it had received parental complaints and some teachers were concerned about the safety of children in those kindergartens. Well, that is not good enough. I do not think that putting this bill, which is nothing more than a vendetta against small business, before the House is good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EClause 2, \u201CCommencement\u201D, states: \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D Most small businesses I have spoken to think that is far too soon. Some of the provisions might be coming in some 3 months later, but what this legislation does\u2014regardless of the commencement date\u2014is to impose a bigger compliance cost on some of those mum and dad operations than any other regulation the Government has brought in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ELianne Dalziel stood in the House today and said that the Government is business-friendly. Well, nobody believes that, because, on the one hand, she is trying to make warm fuzzy comments to business and, on the other, the Government is bringing in laws like this one, which make it harder, not easier, for business people to conduct their business. These people are not wealthy individuals; they are small-business operators\u2014mum and dad operations\u2014which, in most cases, earn no more than $20 an hour. But they go out and they do the cleaning. They clean our schools, our kindergartens, our offices, and other businesses, and they do it to put bread and butter on the table for their kids and their families. This Government is making it harder, not easier, for those people to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003ESo, although we can sit here and have an academic argument about the commencement date, out there in real-life land businesses do not want it, at all. The Government should be ashamed of this legislation, because this is where ideology does not match common sense. What the Government is doing\u2014making small businesses fall heir to shonky workmanship\u2014does not make sense. Those contracts change hands largely because of the quality of the cleaning or the quality of the food. One of the examples in this bill is that of food workers in retirement homes. Well, if the food is horrible day in, day out in a retirement home, why should that contract continue? Why should that retirement home be forced to keep that contract in place, even after it has been terminated? The Government should be ashamed of itself\u2014forcing old people in retirement homes to eat rubbishy food.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022013487c33ff342918f43cac697d30163\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022013487c33ff342918f43cac697d30163\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Just while we look at the commencement date of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill and at Supplementary Order Paper 54, I would like some clarification with regard to clause 2(1)(b) on the Supplementary Order Paper, which states: \u201C(b) sections 5A and 5B of this Act.\u201D Would the Minister or officials be able to advise me, because it seems to me that clause 5 of the new Employment Relations Amendment Bill, soon to become an Act, actually has clauses 5(1) and 5(2), not \u201Csections 5A and 5B\u201D. Is there a drafting error or is it supposed to be like that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6456d8c9f44d46ac15d0a5bf8e7da1\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Fifteen changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaba670888264cdaa54abdd90df171ef\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: So if that is the case, then I think we are on to our 15th amendment. It is important that we look at those kinds of details when we are drafting legislation like this, because they send an important signal to New Zealanders about the care and integrity we apply to our legislation. So if I could have some kind of guidance from the officials at some stage on that point, that would be great. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe main part of clause 2 is now in the amendment in the Supplementary Order Paper. Clause 2 of the bill states: \u201CThis Act comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u201D The words \u201CRoyal assent\u201D take on a new meaning in New Zealand now, because a couple of weeks ago we were very fortunate to witness the swearing-in of a great new Governor-General for New Zealand. He is somebody who will represent this country very well in that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289510d60bc4f4e019ae856f547486650\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Anand Satyanand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c21d7d8a96174b468bbbe77b58a938ba\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014Mr Satyanand\u2014and I believe that the speech he gave that day was a great speech for all New Zealanders. It showed enough nous and political knowledge, but at the same time it was supportive of our people and our opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis legislation does not fulfil the comments the Governor-General made about our history and our future, which is why it is important, when we look at the legislation coming into force on that commencement date, that it should actually reflect the intention that the Governor-General has provided for New Zealand. In his speech, the Governor-General very much emphasised the ability of New Zealanders to achieve and to attain their full goals. We do not have that intention in this legislation. This legislation takes away the ambition and achievement of ordinary New Zealanders. It is just part of Labour\u2019s idea of hierarchy: keeping people under its thumb, and saying that it knows best what is best for these people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e25408d2affd420784480b0e857a93b8\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Anti-competitive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78b3ad40e49452996d082875536d588\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; it is anti-competitive. But it is more than that\u2014it is anti the Kiwi spirit\u2014the spirit of going out there and making the most of our opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is why we in National stand against this legislation today, because we back New Zealanders. We back not just legislation that has the right numbers or letters in it; we back New Zealanders. We want to see legislation that gives them the opportunities to achieve their goals, to be successful, and to build on their successes. And that is the big problem with this legislation, especially if we look at a commencement date that has been tied in with our great history and future\u2014as the new Governor-General\u2019s speech showed. The driving intention of that speech is the ability of people to take an opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis legislation has been proposed by unions\u2014that is what it is; it is a union payback. It is all part of the Labour equation of employment rights. Labour does not do it all in one fell swoop; that is why there are 14 amendments. And we will have another 20 amendments by the end of this term, because the Government has taken an incremental approach to employment law in this country. The Government knows that it cannot get a decent employment law passed that would achieve all its goals, but it believes that it can do so incrementally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b75e8abc18f54cf6a7ee1f0554af69ef\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: By stealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022349bb32ac98342f29338c13c30934e25\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It can do so by stealth\u2014with members\u2019 bills and by bringing parties on board to help it achieve certain little goals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is why the commencement date is relatively important. If we look at that date, we go back to the heart and intention of what New Zealand workers want. They want a fair go, and that is what the Governor-General said. They want to have a chance to be the best they can be. Are we giving them that chance today? No, I do not think we are. We are doing the opposite: we are actually telling them what to do; we are setting the rules that they must abide by. That is not good enough, and it is not what they want. Workers want the Royal assent to be granted to legislation that gives them the ability to make the most of their opportunities. That is what this Parliament should stand for. We have an MMP Parliament, and that is a great thing in some regards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00226d1afac77b0b43ed87215937c6a3455b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d1afac77b0b43ed87215937c6a3455b\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I wish to correct a statement I made earlier to the Committee. I have just been passed papers that inform me that this bill is actually the 15th amendment to the Employment Relations Act, not the 14th.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002273cfaeeadbaf429390f563d572b1bdf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273cfaeeadbaf429390f563d572b1bdf6\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the commencement date of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I assure the Committee that the commencement date of this bill was not on the Prime Minister\u2019s mind this morning when she opened the new Hague building at Napier Girls High School\u2014I would like to congratulate the school on the opening of that fine new building. This commencement date was also certainly not on the mind of Prime Minister Helen Clark in 1995, when she gave a speech to the New Zealand Employers Federation conference. She said: \u201CLabour knows the economy now is more competitive, innovative, and dynamic than the economy of 10 years ago. In fact, we would go so far as to suggest that a large part of that is due to the changes made by the last Labour Government.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ELet me assure members that the commencement date of this legislation was far from her mind at that point in time. She was talking about the Labour Government of the late 1980s and early 1990s that had the courage to plot a new track for this country, with the introduction of GST, the privatisation of public assets such as Telecom and Air New Zealand, the cutting of agricultural subsidies and trade barriers, and the control of inflation. The commencement date of the Employment Relations Bill, or the changes to employment relations legislation, are a long way away from those hurly-burly days of that Labour Government, which was looking to drive this country forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EFrom that point in time, the National Government came in and launched the Employment Contracts Act in the early 1990s, which is where the present bill came from. The Employment Contracts Act has evolved into the Employment Relations Act of 2000, and into the 15th amendment of that Act going forward. This country has benefited hugely from the innovative policies of those early years, and has grown at an average rate of 3 percent since the 1990s\u2014until now, when inflation is rampant, growth is stagnant, domestic debt has skyrocketed, and our balance of payments is dismal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWhat is the Government doing about it? Well, we are debating the commencement date of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill right here and now. We are winding back the clock. The Government talks a big book on economic transformation\u2014it talks a huge book. What are we doing about economic transformation? We are debating the Employment Relations Amendment Bill and its commencement date. Yes, this Government is winding back the clock. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EHere is a quote from Ms Clark\u2019s Speech from the Throne, last year: \u201CMy Government\u2019s overall objective for the next three years is to continue New Zealand\u2019s transformation to a dynamic, knowledge-based economy and society \u2026 . In the last six years my government has sought to lay the foundations for this transformation.\u201D And what are we doing? We are debating the commencement date of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I ask members to tell me what that has to do with economic transformation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f140f4e4323b4f46a79d12bb6280c190\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228434e7f98ad41838f04832e1b5fe774\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Not one iota. This Government talks a big book about Government transformation, and it introduces new laws. The commencement date we are discussing today is designed to protect certain categories of employees in restructuring situations. As we will see later on when we discuss different parts of the bill, when we get past the commencement date, we will be discussing particularly Subpart 2\u2014how Labour has actually wound this in to include all employees. I am talking about Subpart 2, \u201COther employees\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThis Government is engaged in economic transformation, all right. It is economic transformation that is squeezing out innovation and entrepreneurial spirit, and kicking risk takers in the guts. And here we are debating the commencement date of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, which is seeking to kick entrepreneurs like Shane Jones in the guts. The bill is seeking to kick Mr Jones\u2019 fishing businesses across the floor. Such employers depend on innovative business practices, on merging businesses, on changing the business to meet the market\u2014entrepreneurial activities that will take this country forward. So here we are debating the Employment Relations Amendment Bill commencement date, which will do nothing to transform this country or improve its economic growth. This bill is a total waste of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022 data-id=\u002217cca20ea0db49e6b74dcd5bb851a848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217cca20ea0db49e6b74dcd5bb851a848\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cf36c52a65414b38a54774fcb34ddd98\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000427\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 54 in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228b7c7385f50f40ec83740e3f205be6cd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a70c9dd4c2704eeb8fb98d73774a1e27\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002204a02b4ec28c49c88b815f912ceb501f\u0022\u003EClause 2A  Principal Act amended\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223f7283a15837402d8eb84566f2b47356\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2A agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227353c893ba9d41e3903897318e6ad182\u0022\u003EClause 3  Purpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd870ae5cf95449a88cdd9af0cac8f00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd870ae5cf95449a88cdd9af0cac8f00\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I rise to speak to the purpose clause of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I went into the lobby and referred myself to the principal Act itself, and I must say that in looking at it I am gobsmacked. A member who goes to get this Act from the lobby shelves will find it riddled with red pen markings and flimsy tissue paper additions. It is almost totally impossible for a member to get a good overview of exactly what the law in the principal Act is at this time, because so many changes have been made to it since it came into force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fab3d72127d24aa6905dacfbe8d92f5d\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Fifteen amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cac6a225dfb4effa50d162d0cfdc109\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH\u003C/span\u003E: The Act has had 15 amendments, which is just outrageous. If we look through the Act itself, we find flimsy bits of paper added at various points and markings from a red pen all over the place. It just shows the Committee that when this legislation was first brought into the House, it was done at great speed. It was done without rigorous work being done on it and without attention being paid to detail. Those are the reasons the House comes back time and time again to deal with the changes that need to be made. It would be interesting for members to know exactly how much it costs us to have to turn our attention to patching the mistakes made in the original drafting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThe purpose clause in this bill states that its aim is to clarify the application of a particular clause, especially in respect of specified categories of employees\u2014or vulnerable workers, as this Government likes to call them. As I said when I spoke on this bill previously, this Government thinks that people are vulnerable workers if they work in the food service industry, if they work at the airport, and if they undertake cleaning. But if a Thai immigrant does some tiling\u2014or is charged with tiling half of Samoa, by all accounts\u2014then he is vulnerable in no way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EMembers on that side of the Chamber continue to stand there and defend the treatment of that tiler, saying that he was not vulnerable at all but that he was a professional person entering into a professional contract. We all know that it takes great skill to be a tiler, but I do not know how members on the other side of the Chamber can continue day after day to defend what has been done, then, when they come into this Committee, in their next breath go on and on about their concern for vulnerable workers in New Zealand. As members on that side like to say, there is an \u201Ch\u201D word for that. Certainly, on this side of the Chamber we are getting sick of that kind of rhetoric, because it does not ring true in terms of what they are actually doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EWe are also hearing here a discussion about how the treatment of these employees can change, and the purpose clause refers to a change of application to succession contracts. It is designed to give one the impression that that is a contract that has been going for some time and will naturally roll over and be renewed. But what this bill does is exactly the opposite. This bill basically negates fixed-term contracts so that people can enter into a contract for service, and although they receive the worst service they have ever experienced in their life they are not able to enjoy the termination of the contract when it finishes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EThat is exactly what the Dunedin Kindergarten Association faced. It loyally waited until the end of its contract before deciding to go out and get a new firm to come and do the cleaning. That makes sense to us on this side of the Chamber. The association waited until the end of the contract. It did not break the contract; it loyally decided to stick with the cleaners until it had the legal right to say: \u201CSee you later.\u201D But this Government is saying, no, that they can look beyond a fixed-term contract and in fact force that employment relationship to keep going, even after a contract is terminated. If people cannot enter into a fixed-term contract, then that makes it very difficult for small businesses to be able to undertake the kind of work they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003EIn 2004 the Prime Minister stood up at the New Zealand Franchise Awards beside CleanTastic Commercial Cleaning, a business franchise that was franchisee of the year. That franchise oversees over 300 mum and dad operations that run very small businesses. They have small contracts and go out and clean our schools and kindergartens. The Prime Minister had her photo taken, got all the credit, and now is ruining its business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u00229ea453f7d8674f0eb6a80c4934a3b623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ea453f7d8674f0eb6a80c4934a3b623\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am speaking to clause 3, \u201CPurpose\u201D, of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. The purpose of the bill is to substitute a new Part 6A. The title of new Part 6A is \u201CContinuity of employment if employees\u2019 work affected by restructuring\u201D. If people are going to continue employment, they have to work somewhere. If they work somewhere in New Zealand, then \u201Csomewhere\u201D is mostly in small business. I think it is important that, in order to understand the purpose of this legislation, we hear what real small business has to say about the Government and its attitude to business in New Zealand. I have had a lot of correspondence from small business because of my role in economic development, and I have randomly chosen one of the notes I have from a small business. I quote from the communication: \u201CWe have operated our small business for the past 14 years, employing over 60 staff. The past 4 years have been a nightmare for our business and we believe the reason is partly due to the overall climate and tone that now exists in this country, created by a Government intent on pushing employment policies that are not necessary and are politically correct; and that is way over the top and crazy.\u201D That is a direct quote from a small business that cares. The bit I particularly like\u2014and I will share with members\u2014states: \u201CWe believe the only way to get New Zealand back on track is to get rid of the current Government.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc887ce0c5454cc5b5d96a4cb0782e10\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: Say that again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ab3b99f86d4d2384796741605a50da\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY\u003C/span\u003E: I will, because it is exceptionally enlightening: \u201CWe believe the only way to get New Zealand back on track is to get rid of the current Government.\u201D That person believes employment relations are a nightmare. That person has been in business 14 years and employs over 60 staff, and believes doing business in New Zealand, under the current climate with the current Government policies, is a nightmare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003ESo I suppose we have to look at what the real purpose of this bill is. Well, it just makes it harder and harder for business in New Zealand, and, in particular, small business. So many small businesses in New Zealand work hard. They want to grow. They do the growing in many cases by winning a contract. They tender and they win a contract. They get excited because it is a successful opportunity for them to grow. But, unfortunately, this bill just puts those small businesses, when they win those contracts, into a very real risk position; in fact, it will set small business up to fail. When small businesses win contracts, they take over all the current liabilities that existed under the previous employer. Those businesses will have no idea about those current liabilities. They will have no idea about what holiday pay is due. They will have no idea about what sick pay has been accumulated. They will have no idea about whether other contract inducements or payments have been put in, because they will not know what was done in the last week or two before the business was purchased. I repeat, small businesses have no choice at all as to what that is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393feba4dc2b4c4a88fd338e55e783fa\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Read the Minister\u2019s amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224adf836df77e4e8ab0041600bcb06159\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY\u003C/span\u003E: Regarding the Supplementary Order Paper that the gentleman is talking about, I say that someone can come along and make a change a week before and there is no protection for the purchaser, so the purchaser is buying blind. For a small business, that becomes incredibly hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EWhen will this Government stop telling business that it does not like business? As the small business operator said in that correspondence to me, it has been a nightmare doing business under the current Government. Signal upon signal that business is not important is being sent. The purpose of this bill is just to continue with another signal that business is not important. Why is that? In their entire working careers before being MPs, nearly all the members on the Government side of the Chamber have been fighting the employer. The employer was the enemy. \u201CEmployer\u201D was a horrible word\u2014a very evil word. The tragedy for New Zealand is that that exact same state of mind has transferred through in their role as MPs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00227a7cb16cb1ab48528cda0eace366a8ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a7cb16cb1ab48528cda0eace366a8ac\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I understand that the purpose of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill is to protect vulnerable workers who are employed when a company is restructured and who are concerned about the security of their jobs. I sympathise with their position, but it is a position that is very common in small companies, which tend to come and go. In those companies the feeling of insecurity when a contract changes hands is similar for employees, the self-employed, and small owner-operators. I want to consider for a moment what this bill will do for very small companies and for the self-employed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI come from a small-business background, and I know just how important that sector is to our economy. But I also know just how tough it is for someone who is running a small business to make a living. As Mr Tisch and Mr Blumsky have told us, New Zealand is a country of small business. Over 300,000 people are self-employed or owner-operators, 80 percent of our businesses have fewer than five employees, and 97 percent of our businesses have fewer than 20 employees. Those people work enormously long hours, often in substandard conditions, and they cannot claim overtime, or redundancy, or holiday pay. Their jobs and their incomes are totally exposed to local and global economic shifts, and their risks and responsibilities continue, regardless of ill health or misfortune. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe group of small-business people includes men and women of all ages and races. Many of them are new immigrants, or women with children, or people who have been made redundant. Many are naturally entrepreneurial but have low levels of education, and all worry from day to day about their future and the future of those who depend on them. They absolutely qualify for the definition of \u201Cvulnerable workers\u201D, and they are just as frightened of changes in the workplace as are those whom this bill protects. They tend to have a heads down, bums up style of operating, and most of their businesses stay small and vulnerable. Often they are family companies, and their real strength is their ability to work hard, to be flexible, and to make the most of opportunities. The real weakness of small businesses is their size. It is almost impossible to make a decent living without some economy of scale. One of the main reasons that New Zealanders work longer and harder for their money than people in almost any other developed country in the world is that our economy is so dominated by such small businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EMost small businesses have pretty low aspirations. If small-business people can earn enough to buy a house and a car\u2014and maybe a boat\u2014and get a decent holiday at Christmas, that is enough. The main reason that they do not grow their businesses bigger than that is that it is too hard to do so under this Government. They buckle under the compliance costs and the huge number of rules. Now this Government, in the name of protecting the vulnerable, is making it even harder for them to grow their businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESmall businesses tend to have limited resources and they tend to have small teams of very hard-working and focused employees\u2014often the owner\u2019s own family. They have to be smart to survive, and one of the best ways to grow is to take on a new contract. But the only way small businesses can have any security in that arrangement is to be able to deliver the service more efficiently and more effectively than the contractor who went before them. Otherwise the new contractor will be out the door, too. It may be that a new contractor can use some, or even all, of the existing staff and do something differently from the previous contractor to produce a better service, but it is much more likely that the original contract was terminated because of a flaw in the existing system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo the requirement of this bill that new contractors take over the existing staff is a real problem. We all know that one cannot get a different result if one keeps on doing the same thing. What is more, the main reason that many small businesses believe they can deliver on a new contract is that they know their capabilities and their workers. But this bill demands that sole traders or small owner-operators dump their own loyal employees and pick up those from the previous, failed contractor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00221079400e5bb542f4a19d79132d83a97e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221079400e5bb542f4a19d79132d83a97e\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022c81385d60f634f49872a52c15414aed2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c81385d60f634f49872a52c15414aed2\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I can see very clearly that the Employment Relations Amendment Bill has been drafted by people who have not the slightest idea about business or running a business. The first thing that I want to draw the Committee\u2019s attention to is that this legislation will impose further bureaucracy, red tape, and costs on small businesses. The legislation simply will not work. Any law passed in this House has to be capable of working, irrespective of whether one agrees with the policy intent. This bill is not going to work. For example, the bill assumes that one employer will give commercially sensitive information to its competitor. That is simply not going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EA contractor who wins a tender for a contract is forced to take on the employees of the company that lost the tender. The contractor has to make redundant his or her own employees, who may have worked for that contractor for many years, and to take on the staff of the business that previously held the contract. Contractors cannot keep both sets of employees. Under this amendment bill, they are forced to keep the new employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI see this bill as a very high cost on small businesses in the Wairarapa electorate. The Wairarapa electorate has many small businesses and this bill is simply adding red tape and cost on to them. It comes on the back of this Government\u2019s intention that every employee have 4 weeks\u2019 leave. Let us work through that issue. I know of a company, for example, in Pahiatua that has 30 employees. Having to provide 4 weeks\u2019 leave a year means that it needs to employ another staff member to cover the extra 30 weeks\u2019 leave it has to provide under the framework being imposed by this Government. Where does that money come from? It will come from the bottom line. It is simply a cost being imposed on the business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThis sort of legislation, which is being imposed by the members opposite\u2014who just laugh and would not know a business if they tripped over one\u2014will simply send our small companies to the wall. Let us take the example of a shearing contractor in the Wairarapa. He buys up an existing contractor, and he has to take over the staff. What use is that to him? How is that fair to his own employees, who may have worked for him for years? He has to chuck them out. It is absolute nonsense. Where is the value added from this legislation? There is none. The legislation is simply red tape and adding costs to business. That is very, very unsatisfactory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ELet us come back to the situation of a company taking over a contract. A businessman who has a cleaning contract in a retirement village may decide that, as he is about to lose the contract, he will fix the new guy by doubling, trebling, or even quadrupling the pay rates of his employees. How does the buyer know that that will not happen? Suddenly the buyer might be faced with paying cleaners $100 an hour because of some smart work by the outgoing contractor that would be entirely plausible and possible under this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI do not believe that this legislation makes the slightest bit of sense whatever. The National Party is going to oppose every clause in this bill. We are very, very concerned that employees will lose their jobs because the companies they have been working for simply are thrown out of business because of impossible conditions being imposed by people who have never been in business. I think companies have the right to decide whom they will contract to provide their services. They have a right to decide what is best for their business. It should not be imposed by central government. This legislation is a total nonsense. It does not support our workers, who need the protection of a free and open market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022 data-id=\u0022145e7dea535a4a35b5fb005ee1fc5d5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022145e7dea535a4a35b5fb005ee1fc5d5b\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c4eb5c7d600f4734b48a3a71f76dda10\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002224c11067c46449cba1b63196f69cb7a6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228f2b05bb315f405687bc89d251fbd2ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f2b05bb315f405687bc89d251fbd2ca\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I think it would be appropriate that we have a debate covering all clauses 3A, 4, 5 and 6. The substantive nature of the debate is in clause 4, new Part 6A, and I seek leave for that purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f80c19ac2774839ad932f97a77d55c7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course to be followed. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. There will be a wide-ranging debate on clause 3A, clause 4, clause 5, new clause 5A, new clause 5B, new clause 5C, and clause 6, with relevant amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d21612b997f4cd99a947a8301d6b211\u0022\u003EClauses 3A to 5, new clauses 5A to 5C, and clause 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022b12ba3a83a20445bb679bc510a76e7e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b12ba3a83a20445bb679bc510a76e7e9\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Even though this is a wide-ranging debate I have quite a narrow speech ready to talk to the purpose of the bill. There were demands from Mr Jones on the other side for me to get up and talk some sense. We have actually had a lot of sense spoken about this bill, because interestingly, again, similar to the KiwiSaver Bill, which was rushed and bulldozed through the other night, no Labour speakers have been speaking to the bill in this Committee stage, apart from, of course, the Minister in the chair who had some words earlier on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI wanted to get up earlier to talk about the purpose of the bill, so I will just touch on that right now. Quite frankly, I think this bill, obviously, is purposeful. But I actually think its purpose is quite racist. I was listening to some of the speeches last night, particularly Mark Gosche\u2019s. He was talking about the cleaners and how they were mostly M\u0101ori, Pacific Island, etc. I actually think the intent of this bill is, from what we have seen from Labour about its dependency culture, basically a bit of a Labour mantra: \u201CIf they\u2019re brown keep them down, keep them dependent.\u201D Because, actually, that is what this bill does. I find that quite disgusting in New Zealand in 2006, in spite of the rhetoric we constantly hear from them and the various placards and nonsense that they are putting out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWhy is this amendment necessary? Well, quite frankly it is payback time\u2014payback time for the unions. I believe this is amendment No. 15 we are up to\u2014the fine speakers earlier pointed that out. It is payback time, and I guess those unions are shouting something at the Labour Party that it has heard a lot in the last few weeks. Those three words are \u201Cpay it back\u201D. We asked the Labour Party to pay back the taxpayers\u2019 money that it allegedly illegally spent on its pledge card during the election. I guess the unions are now saying \u201Cpay it back\u201D for the hundreds of thousands of dollars they donated. Some of the amounts are in dispute, according to an Investigate magazine. But they are looking for a return\u2014a payback\u2014for the money they poured into the Labour Party to pull it up that last 3 to 4 percent in the last week of the election. The Hon Bill English pointed out earlier today, in a very interesting press release, how much\u2014I think it was $1.1 million\u2014the Labour Party spent to buy the last election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of talk, and a few heart-rending stories, about vulnerable workers. It kind of misses the point. All workers are vulnerable. All management is vulnerable. All companies are vulnerable. This is the world in which we live, unless we want to stick a great big fence around New Zealand, want to not import one iota, want to not export one iota, and want to have an average living age that goes back to something like 35-years-old. Either we participate in the world or we do not. That means we have to compete; we have to compete hard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe only way we can grow the economy is through productivity so that the workers can be paid more\u2014particularly the cleaning and service workers, who, I will be fair and admit, are at the bottom of the wage chain. For some of the work they do they deserve an awful lot more. I feel incredibly sorry at the moment for the cleaners in the Beehive\u2014I heard all sorts of nonsense from various speakers last night about this\u2014who, I believe, are currently having to work double time and double shifts to try to clean up some of the mess and nonsense that has been going through the Beehive in relation to the various scandals right at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EFrom reading the purpose of this bill it is clear that Labour assumes we are stuck in Yorkshire textile mills in 1906. Well, it should get with the programme; this is 2006. There is not a constant battle between labour and capital. We have moved on from there\u2014it was a long time ago. I guess, if one looks in a rear-view mirror\u2014as the Labour visionaries do\u2014one would therefore keep trying to resurrect what the environment and conditions were like back in 1906. That is exactly where the medium to long term impacts of this amendment bill will take us. In the short term the amendment bill will make some nice headlines\u2014good on it\u2014but over the medium to long term this will drag New Zealand back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EIf we need more evidence, then we should think about where our unemployment rate was when we had rigid labour laws and contracts in the 1970s. Unemployment was nudging 10, 12, 13, 14, 15 percent\u2014it went very, very high. Now we are suddenly in a virtually full employment period, thanks to high commodity prices, etc., yet the rigidity of labour market regulations in this bill will suffocate New Zealand and strap it down, as we look longingly across to Sydney, to Australia, and to all our friends and wh\u0101nau who have moved over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00227e9712c6200047a0885a2e902ebbe3d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e9712c6200047a0885a2e902ebbe3d5\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call\u2014far be it for me to say I was goaded to do so by my colleagues on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014to pose the question that underlies the Employment Relations Amendment Bill: what are the qualities that comprise a fair and decent society? And why do we not hear anything about them from our colleagues on the Opposition side of the Chamber? Let us think about what some of them might be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOne of those qualities is equity. How are we to give expression to or recognise equity? One of the quickest ways to do so, and one of the most enduring qualities of equity, is the manner in which it is to be found in human relationships. I think it is very disappointing and backward looking for the Opposition to constantly force human relationships and human interaction in the context of the labour force through a very narrow, miserly opening. No, our approach is to build on what was picked up by that very important judicial institution the Employment Court, which found a loophole and identified a failing. The Government, in its usual vigilant and thoughtful way, will not let that loophole continue, because the loophole diminishes the status of vulnerable employees and also undermines their capacity to maintain a fair and reasonable level of earnings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe can have lots of debates as to whether this legislation will make us more like Australia than we have been. I think that scratched record has long since lost its appeal in terms of the broader public sentiment. No, the public are not interested in that. They all know that every time a member from the Opposition side of the Chamber talks about how good Australia is, he or she is actually diminishing the status of those New Zealanders who are prepared to buckle down and make this country a great place\u2014possibly the greatest place in the world\u2014in which to live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWhat else underlies this particular approach? Well, we need to have premier legislation. In order to advance premier legislation, one needs power. To attract and sustain power so that one enjoys the benefits of the Treasury benches, one needs appeal. And in order to ensure that one\u2019s appeal penetrates all areas of the electorate, one needs to have vision, which is precisely what underlies this thoughtful piece of legislation. We envision a time when both the owners of businesses\u2014the providers of capital\u2014and the providers of labour meet and seek an accommodation. Why should vulnerable, displaced, and possibly even marginalised workers in large institutions be tossed aside like chaff in the wind of change that is driven by very short-sighted business decisions? No, people need to have their respect, and esteem needs to be accorded to them. That is what we say about vision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EHow do we actually create a nation where all people can feel that their particular talents contribute to a deep, abiding, and very embracing concept of identity? Well, we have to respect their rights, not only as consumers and not only as the fortunate few who have a handsome array of property rights, but also as the providers of labour. That is what this brilliant piece of legislation seeks to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ELaundry workers, up and down the electorate offices of this country, know who is looking after them. In addition to that, in terms of age-related residential care, not only is this bill a contribution to that whole sector\u2014we have already contributed to it by means of our very thoughtful and handsome policies that address the concerns of the aged\u2014but we are now ensuring that there is a platform of security and safety underneath those whom we charge with looking after some of the most vulnerable people in society. What about the caretakers in education? The caretakers in education are obviously schoolteachers and principals, but they are also the people who do the work that goes unseen and, often, unheralded. Why on earth should they live in the context of a set of contract negotiations, in a state of fear that their entire lives will be turned upside down and that their families will be in a state of upheaval? Anyone who supports that is actually focused on a very destructive way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u00220f7481c407b54ee090a64785e5b7900f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f7481c407b54ee090a64785e5b7900f\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E I was listening to that member, Shane Jones, across the other side of the Chamber, talking about what Labour believes it knows best. I have to say the member was talking pure ideology that was so detached from the market that we live in that it was hard to swallow. He referred to members on this side of the House narrowing down their thinking; when one stops to think about it, from what I have seen of the process while being in this House and listening to the debates around the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, one can only ask where on earth this legislation is taking us. What is its purpose? It is hugely concerning. Where is this Government taking us? What is it trying to do? We are doing nothing more than taking a backwards step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI would just like to draw the member\u2019s attention to what hard-working New Zealanders aspire to. We are aware that there have been some hard-fought realities inside our economy. Back when the Labour Government of the 1980s was in power, some severe steps were taken that were necessary; it was the freeing up and opening up of the primary sector to market forces. We had to learn to stand on our own two feet. When we look at the Employment Relations Amendment Bill I am afraid we see that it is a step backwards from that. In actual fact, when we look at the growth achieved in the primary sector we see that it has been upward of 4 percent per year, which is absolutely outstanding. Unfortunately, when we look at the domestic economy we see that it has been performing poorly at only 1.1 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhat happens in the rural areas, with our shearing gangs and various other contractors\u2014whether they are pruning grapes in Marlborough or Martinborough, or shearing sheep throughout the country\u2014is that their situation is performance based. I believe that is something we must celebrate. As I come into the House, having been a shearer myself, I find it very, very hard to comprehend that we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20060831b1caf6471131496d9f024f163d2c3b3a000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"