"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022187ab4e83da34078a5fd7c42ab6666a9\u0022\u003EThursday, 7 September 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee8519f0d817455e8711ad7c1fd0251a\u0022\u003EThursday, 7 September 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eaaae5a9efbc454495d8572de7d7a0df\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ea92d84bb2f433680dfe1c6144457b2\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002279e84fd699b04892bd9b6c0083de2b90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279e84fd699b04892bd9b6c0083de2b90\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Leader of the House: Next week in the House priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Child Support Amendment Bill (No 4), the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill, the Standards and Conformance Bill, and the Insolvency Law Reform Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b2eb6a54652c474da63549686adb5df1\u0022\u003EAmended answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d079e02675b6417d9da9775ccae4f530\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister, 6 September\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe8b795fc37a45b996693de9ab0f6eef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe8b795fc37a45b996693de9ab0f6eef\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. On reading my response to question No. 4 in Hansard yesterday, I feel it is appropriate for me to clarify to the House the following. In answering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d663046f0d7b44aa9d22d459ff4f8031\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a point of order. You have to move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c4c37a1e30d4c7b8757be077f8b5866\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I am moving that I make a clarification of a response to\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022310b903470e542e1ad34bb924b2da210\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You are seeking leave. Sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236d64d9c33c4140ae2f4e256e3c7819\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to make a clarifying statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef6c5ad177c49ffb39cf7be29cc36e0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is seeking leave. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e27d59b7c82c4f4696360cc6abbc2867\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s trying to do what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc78ad3718e34922a3773a0297545d79\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He is seeking leave, as he said, to clarify an answer he gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d774ebf8498140d7897167531667632a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d774ebf8498140d7897167531667632a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If the member is asking for leave to correct a wrong answer, then that is what he should ask for, and he might get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e657920cfd624ff889573e543cce52d8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I heard him starting when I interrupted him. I am sorry. Would the Minister now please proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00220550f62262214da09fd5fea321851923\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220550f62262214da09fd5fea321851923\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E On reading my response to question No.\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aaa60183ea14baf96eae78e47347d28\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275cbfa87ac674ec3aee509bf168d4f77\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, should I proceed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022e136757ec5d54f8782a970f4c56c503f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e136757ec5d54f8782a970f4c56c503f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Leave was sought. I asked whether there was any objection. There was no objection. Then you took a point of order. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212106528b4014e17acae3b9a47e52bc0\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: But we\u2019ve got a point of order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aaf3b4a13bc4c7ca0acc771f3cf0f4d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry. Then, as I recall events, a point of order was taken. I clarified that point of order. Then I was proceeding to ask the Minister to make his statement. If there is any other point of order, I am pleased to hear it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8c04a9613a8458fbc92148237d925a6\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226756876d4b384de1875fb992486d89ea\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: If it may assist, I am happy to put\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d988ed4eddf4e2eaa6090c48403e8a5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have called Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c6b72fc2f0c4807bd7c82aae0ee9131\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister believes he gave the House false information yesterday that needs correcting, then he should seek leave to correct an answer he gave the House yesterday. He should not try to fudge what he is seeking. I do not think he has made it clear, and it is unfair to allow him to proceed if he has not made clear the leave he is seeking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5e55ce63d0f45a3a42745a1cb6466b4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Happy to do so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022acf94645009d4abfb455b65fa4fe3ec3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acf94645009d4abfb455b65fa4fe3ec3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to correct an answer from yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2ef9ad75851451b818ba5b794a56927\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e108a29fdb3443897670049a040d4b3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: On reading my response to question No. 4 in Hansard yesterday, I feel it is appropriate for me to correct for the House the following. In answering the first supplementary question, I inadvertently confused two positions in the department. The director of the Pacific division is a \u201Cshe\u201D, not a \u201Che\u201D. The group manager of service international, to whom she reports, is a \u201Che\u201D. It was the latter, not the former, who recalled attempting to pass the information on to the then Associate Minister\u2019s private secretary on 9 June 2005, not 10 May 2005 as I therefore implied. Finally, I also note that Dr Smith\u2019s first supplementary question contained an apparent inaccuracy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022180ad20c5e294e82859473bfe7827dd8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not your statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00222d858df09afe497ab6c87c4609371ece\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d858df09afe497ab6c87c4609371ece\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder what mechanism is available to the House to make sure the Minister corrects his other false answers to the House, because if that was incorrect yesterday, answers previously given have been incorrect, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c71456bb814b456e94a4f8de97c51fbe\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, that is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1af853701c54d01889947b3c0e55452\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223425302092e54e0a8f4909aced6762b4\u0022\u003EMinister\u2019s Comments\u2014Law and Order Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00227ba2d50ce9204767a8d5c576b48096de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ba2d50ce9204767a8d5c576b48096de\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek some advice from you as to what remedies are available to members of the Law and Order Committee. Today, a statement made by the Associate Minister of Health Damien O\u2019Connor to an addictions conference in Wellington indicated that the minimum drinking age will not be put back up to 20. He told the conference that the political reality is that New Zealand is stuck with the drinking age of 18. This matter is still in consideration before the Law and Order Committee, which has not yet reported back to the House. Further, this is a member\u2019s bill and a conscience issue. It was an extraordinarily pre-emptive statement for the Minister to make in a public forum, and I ask your advice about what remedies are available to those of us, and the public, who have spent weeks and weeks on submissions and hearing evidence on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u002289f03fc9e00e4fff80adf127e30cb3e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289f03fc9e00e4fff80adf127e30cb3e1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite in order for members to make public statements on matters that are before select committees. Obviously, if they are members of those select committees, there would be an issue. [Interruption] I have clarified that it is a matter of debate for members. The Minister is not a member of a select committee, as I understand it, and he is entitled to make any statement he so wishes. It is a matter of debate as to what happens after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022d03930f4ad394c868a8e08c03e04a1ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d03930f4ad394c868a8e08c03e04a1ff\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The question remains as to whether the Minister was speaking in his capacity as Associate Minister of Health and this is now the Government position on this bill, or whether it does, in fact, remain a conscience issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00226c282cad39a244808db349da6cc5d5d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c282cad39a244808db349da6cc5d5d9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is not a matter for the Speaker. This is a matter of debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226394dd50743e4d55b336935ac88573ab\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022949da4c6df6144dfa4eb13b1db7b3d34\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022107de66421624c4798ee27bae2025eaa\u0022\u003EBusiness Climate Change Dialogue\u2014Cross-party Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d74e0c7622f4c5687e2b860a2379511\u0022\u003E1. JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: What prospect does he see, following this morning\u2019s Business Climate Change Dialogue, for a cross-party agreement on addressing climate change, an agreement that would place a price on carbon to give investment certainty to business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8fe7ef7cdcf4f57bceae41ca21d7abe\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I have in my hand the answer to question for oral answer No. 1, delivered to me by the Government earlier, so I seek leave to table David Parker\u2019s responses to Jeanette Fitzsimon\u2019s questions. She may as well just read them, given that we have them here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2c5c34bf1e247748dad852408bef770\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022673710d07baa437491caf74446af2605\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022673710d07baa437491caf74446af2605\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E We welcome the Hon Dr Nick Smith\u2019s announcement this morning that the National Party now accepts that climate change is occurring and requires a Government response to help New Zealanders reduce emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a310eb79f114ec7bac29fe6696bfd66\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Word perfect!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e8e0e8006341d985d714ceab3639c6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Brownlee. This contrasts with recent statements made by senior shadow Ministers in the National caucus, and we welcome\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb36672029c749489e9c32076759f78e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister was not asked about National\u2019s position, or even\u2014and you have ruled this may be asked\u2014about what reports he had seen that might allow Labour to get into misrepresenting National\u2019s position. That was not the tone of the question, so the Minister is going way outside his ministerial responsibilities\u2014albeit if it were the Minister\u2019s wish, I would be happy to take leave and explain National\u2019s exact position on those important issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c740a2e56b4d898c02da876e9b8ec9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question asked what prospect I saw of a cross-party agreement, and, obviously, the answer I am giving relates to that prospect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e0cbfda694f41c797e880aaa2aa0d74\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is correct, so would the Minister please continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ae684c3f096414296df3ad76e866703\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: So we are pleased to see that the National Party now accepts that climate change is occurring and that a Government response to curb emissions is required. That contrasts with recent statements by senior shadow Ministers in National\u2019s own caucus. We would welcome any party getting behind the comprehensive programme for responding to climate change that we have under way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f572350eb0fb4b0c8398b460c01b619d\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister see a possible way forward in the Swiss approach outlined by the Swiss Ambassador at this morning\u2019s meeting\u2014a system combining both a carbon levy paid back to the public in other ways, which Labour has advocated in the past, and a carbon trading system, as advocated by Nick Smith and the National Party; if so, how could that combined option be explored?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f61858ff704ba4b37037f357c54a9b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If you would like to know what the supplementary question was so that you can rule on whether it is in order, we have the bit of paper here. Clearly, the supplementary question sent to David Parker\u2019s office, or perhaps from David Parker\u2019s office to Jeanette Fitzsimons\u2019 office, is not in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259009ee9c6464f9190e2e158a7974fbb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member seeking leave to table that document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3c6d91ef09e4e3b921e4774e810d484\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, they have got it. It is actually their document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6bfb51082e64ad5913a48544cd62a5e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then that is not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225532b19a17464b64bc6cc1a10d806077\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5940f681d874701be4f9832c745695e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is not a valid point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022753349843d5a47c592eae4d04937a309\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The question is not in order. We would like you to rule on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a08698df7217407bbac7513331b66e41\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is in order. Would the member read the question again, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268bb7b1b245940f58c4ed08f60b01f42\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I can respond to that by informing the House that no questions passed from my office to the Minister\u2019s office, or from the Minister\u2019s office to mine. I do not know which piece of paper the member has, but it was not a communication written between the Minister\u2019s office and my office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220988af4fecdc40ee8341ee81c5c387ea\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We have had a clarification of that. We will now proceed. Would the member ask her question again, so that I can assess whether it is an appropriate question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4aa35f7be7d40358176994970a01f20\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Given that there has been some question as to the authenticity of the document, I seek leave again to table the question from Jeanette Fitzsimons and the pre-prepared answers from Mr Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205948543e8854e6ebe02f77ff5661d57\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister see a possible way forward in the Swiss Government\u2019s approach outlined by the Swiss Ambassador at this morning\u2019s meeting\u2014a system combining both a carbon levy paid back to the public in other ways, as Labour used to advocate, and a carbon trading system, as advocated by Nick Smith and the National Party on various occasions; if so, how could that combined option be explored?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022009ae545a6f342b18f55805085a6dfb1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do see possibilities in that. As the member is aware, the Government is presently consulting on a range of policy options under consideration. Those include a variety of sectoral measures and the possibility of post-2012 price-based measures across the economy, and I am sure that that particular idea can be considered, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216bfe922fc1848239114ed8aec143a28\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true that the carbon dioxide equivalents that emanate from New Zealand are so low in total they do not even register on the global model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215747109aa4640d28004642571425d67\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that New Zealand\u2019s emissions represent 0.2 percent of the world\u2019s emissions, because our population is less than 0.2 percent of the world\u2019s population. It is also true that New Zealand\u2019s emissions on a per capita basis are about the eleventh-highest in the worth. It is also true that for the world to get on top of climate change challenges, every part of the world has to do its bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85805a5a0c742e4a8b7b1b7c7a8553e\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Tom Campbell, the chief executive of Comalco, who said at this morning\u2019s gathering that any new deployment of coal should be delayed until carbon capture and storage are fully commercialised; if so, will he commit to climate change policy that allows no new coal combustion until carbon capture and storage have been proven to work reliably in the long term and are available on the market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a54fa9f5b2d46dcbfe7029ecab28d48\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Final decisions on that have not been taken, but I do agree with the proposition that if New Zealand wants to do its bit to help the world to overcome climate change problems, it would be a strange policy outcome if our greenhouse gas emissions climbed as a consequence of large additional amounts of coal-fired generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c04017a74847baa68e5ef5412552b0\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any conflicting reports on the need to deal with climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c36d0e289f041bbafe109c8e5588b8e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have received reports that a member of the National Party has said that climate change is just a bit of climate variability, and that he, for one, would like to see a bit more heat to make the grass grow, and would not mind a bit more of a sea-level rise, either. That member was Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith, representing the National Party at a Royal Society of New Zealand presentation on climate change in Parliament. National needs to come clean about where it really stands on climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254bec6048edc432883ce77687b660380\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that the Government has been in office now for 7 years, has had to do a U-turn on the animal emissions levy, has done a U-turn on the carbon tax, has had an energy efficiency strategy that is in tatters, has made a billion-dollar bungle on New Zealand\u2019s climate change position, and has had to drop its policy in respect of the reduction in emissions projects, can the Minister tell the House exactly what this Government\u2019s climate change policy is\u2014or is it, as all the commentators say, a complete vacuum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd95c6628e44b0c8f746eed322b336d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will make two points. Firstly, parts of the climate change policy have been very successful. Notably, the projects to reduce emissions, which were overseen by the Hon Pete Hodgson, brought forward the development of wind-power generation, which does not produce climate change emissions. New Zealand now has a future where we can deploy more wind generation cost-effectively, without carbon emissions. I also make the point, in relation to the animal emissions levy, that Dr Smith\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268436b2df287415ca765ef732a36ab5a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot hear, and the member who asked the question did ask for an answer. Would the Minister please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224391a0c13970435f8a4b03aca7d8ff42\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acab9dfb0cb145988f551dbf9de7e06f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry; please be seated. As I said, interjections are permitted, but we do need to hear how the Minister is addressing the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9a0dd0aa4624d0399834b7c52103060\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is ironic that Dr Smith, this morning and today, has referred to the animal emissions levy. He complained\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229680994112264075954f810db3cb824b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was very straightforward: what is the Government\u2019s policy on climate change? Commentators say that it is a vacuum. It is very simple for the Minister to answer. I ask him to please tell us what it is. I know what my policy is, and I am happy to answer questions on that. National is happy to do that. He is the Minister, so he should simply tell the House the Government\u2019s climate change policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca3c59083a454d4dbf3f1b622b978c39\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister is attempting to do that. Would the Minister please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fd481bd408b40a0b20721b656b286bc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is ironic that the member talks about the animal emissions levy. He mentioned that this morning, as well. He complained that we as a Government were not spending enough on it, when he as a member politicked against it under the label of the \u201Cfart tax\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022372fa9debdc046c9aa765ff272482c48\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have listened to the Minister\u2019s answer carefully. I am yet to hear from this Government Minister what the Government\u2019s climate change policy is. I have heard nothing yet, and I say to you, Madam Speaker, that rather than for him to give a tirade on what I or my colleague Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith might have said or might not have said, he should simply be asked to address the question: what is the Government\u2019s climate change policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022718cecdb58484837b0422d6206cbe546\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: The member who has just resumed his seat said that he listened carefully to the Minister\u2019s answer. But he shouted through the Minister\u2019s answer, and has continually interrupted it. I think it would be a good idea if he did listen to the Minister\u2019s answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022715d49e8f4fe42e2b25a77158a237ab3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly could not hear. I could hear bits of the answer, but I could not hear the whole answer. So would members please enable the Minister to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215aa721078a945d18dc686b60e4e5006\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I said that the part of the climate change policy that has been particularly successful was the bringing forward of wind-power generation, so that New Zealand now has a future of cost-effective wind power being integrated into the grid. I also made the point that Dr Smith\u2019s conduct this morning and this afternoon, in complaining that more money should be spent on an animal emissions levy, stands in stark contrast to his politicking against that levy under the guise of the then description, \u201Cfart tax\u201D. This Government is consistent. We accept that climate change is a problem. We are addressing it; Dr Smith covers for the other Dr Smith, and does not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225120b8a2151749488aa581d8c456c04d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have now listened to three attempts from the Minister, and I still do not know the Government\u2019s policy on climate change. The only snippet we got was about the emissions project, which has been cancelled. I think the House deserves an answer, quite simply, as to what the Government\u2019s climate change policy is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e381f5e482ce425883457b2cf81819c6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the House wants to give me the opportunity to list some of the other recent announcements in the last 2 weeks, we have three, all of which are a small part of the matrix that makes up the response to climate change\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e203ae1856af4b76abac94ff1a8920d6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The matrix. We have a matrix!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ab74285f91c42258e84a5167505f347\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a big word for Dr Smith, but yes, it is a matrix. It is a series of small steps, which will lead to a big difference. Those small steps include vehicle emission testing at warrant of fitness stations, the solar hot water announcements made by Jeanette Fitzsimons last week, and confirmation that the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative is proceeding, with minor alteration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224229a19eae364a7199e0d4603a54f42e\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that John Howard expressed the sentiment that climate change is an issue, but that it will not be solved by punishing Australians and Australian businesses by way of additional taxation; if he is aware of those sentiments, does he not believe that is a position New Zealand First should adopt also?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb68ce037d14fe8b51e6d49d911ca86\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: If, as is the case for New Zealand and other countries around the world, business as usual sees greenhouse gas emissions increasing, then there is a need, from a policy perspective, to change the rules so that business as usual is not the outcome and we reduce our emissions. Whether we pursue a regulatory route, as Australia is, or a more efficient emissions trading route, or a combination of the two, there is a moderate cost to the economy. The mechanism goes to how that cost is shared, not as to whether one arises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962ae09e1fcb4f11899891fedde9ed9a\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports of the article in Nature last Thursday that records that the powerful greenhouse gas methane is being released from the thawing Siberian permafrost at five times the rate previously thought, taking us dangerously close to a climate tipping point, and does he not think it is time to inject some urgency into the policy debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e692199de7244005af1f1784934128a5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have not read that report, but I have to say that my reading, which is quite extensive, on climate change gives me increasing concern rather than reducing concern, and I agree that there is an urgency for New Zealand and the world to moderate their emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58fddd744874c048ee9f119edbff47b\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned at the image I am holding up of the vast reduction in Greenland\u2019s ice cap in only 13 years, and, given the predicted 7 metre sea-level rise when all the ice goes, does he think that is a reason to inject some urgency into the climate change debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe09ab9c0d3b4ad3bffa1ae7b9761ddc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Of all the illustrations of the potential problems of climate change and suggestions that it is accelerating, what is happening both in the northern hemisphere, in Greenland and on the polar ice cap, and in Antarctica worries me the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d48a27f63dd4dbd8b21bc389db60a60\u0022\u003EElection Advertising\u2014Validation of Spending\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b25cd896a6ec47468ff5a9741de59614\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Why did the Ministry of Justice commence work on the validation of alleged unlawful spending of parliamentary funds on election campaign advertising, and when did that work commence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022133d0a7f07da44d2bf379193185020bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022133d0a7f07da44d2bf379193185020bb\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: The Ministry of Justice is not currently doing any work on validating alleged unlawful spending of parliamentary funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831290cca7e84ec3bbac072aa119ad9b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can he deny that at one point at least the ministry was doing such work, and can he tell us who instructed it to do that work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221fdd50a60d6455491dbda62d96ba349\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The ministry was consulted by Treasury on work referred to in the House previously, but it is not working on validating legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c643229c31a4394bf8a30eaec2a72c1\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister considered the need to undertake work on legislative safeguards for election spending to prevent covert funding by extremist groups, secret \u201Ccash for policy\u201D deals, and trust funds hiding large donations from multinational corporations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3c3049a2533455d863aec7e32ec150b\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the Minister of Justice is undertaking a review of the electoral finance regime, focusing on electoral expenses, including whether there is a case for more controls on donations\u2014the kinds of donations, undoubtedly, that are hidden within the 92 percent of funds that are hidden in the trust fund by the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c22d433e9443edaea41229bc3bb7fc\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that the decision to review the way in which election donations are declared is simply an attack on National and a denial of Labour\u2019s own corruption in this matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd625c84436e4003be9053565d3f35fe\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I would imagine that National members would welcome the opportunity to stop having the allegations of corruption swirl around them, as they are doing as a result of their relationships with the Exclusive Brethren Church, which paid $1.2 million to support the National Party in order to try to steal the last election, and National\u2019s own trust fund, where those members hide 92 percent of their funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227696734eb8bc4bc69ae1f89d96217906\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s last answer, will he consider making amendments to the electoral law to ensure that funding of political parties is transparent and accountable, so that the public is aware when extremist groups fund very large sums of money to parties like National, or when large corporates buy influence from parties for \u201Ccash for policy\u201D deals\u2014such as the one National entered into in the last election campaign?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f48d7a67f8704544a1c81dbe1bf978cb\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that, of course, the Minister would take such\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b91b8a26c0cf49e5af0a6990a331dc0d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. When that question was being asked by Phil Goff, there were about 15 people on the National benches all shouting at once, which indicates, of course, that their leadership is not capable of controlling them. I have never seen, in my long time in Parliament, so many people all shouting at once. Usually it is left to the spokesperson, the associate spokesperson, or the leader, but there were 15 people shouting when Mr Parker was speaking and, on the second occasion, there were 10. All of those people, by the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings, should be thrown out of Parliament. That is what the precedent is. When will we have it enforced? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222730457bd1754fb185c9fd3a6dbd9251\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Otherwise members will be leaving the Chamber; I am on my feet. The member referred to when the Minister was answering the question. Certainly, I could not hear the question that was being asked by the Hon Phil Goff, either. The difficulty has arisen recently that, in fact, there seems to be a concerted campaign to ensure that some questions and some answers are not heard. It is a matter for members to take on board themselves. I, as Speaker, could throw out what would be almost the entire House at times. That is obviously ludicrous. It is not from the back section of the House where the smaller parties sit; I concede that. But, certainly, there have been deliberate campaigns, it appears, to make sure people are not heard. However, it is not on all questions and all answers. I think that that is a denial of the democratic right for people to be heard when they speak in this Chamber. It is for members themselves to take responsibility for that, and I ask them, please, to do so. Of course, members can make interventions on both questions and answers, because that is also a freedom of speech, and members should be able to express themselves here. It is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253fe92ea9c8341f1818bedb3979029e1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4b12936c0774735a518959d5a7b1374\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have not finished, Mr Brownlee. The point is, however\u2014and it is a serious point\u2014when members say that they do not like the answer or do not like the question, that is not the point. People have a right to be heard. Then the judgments will be made\u2014when we have heard them. But how those judgments can be made, when one cannot even hear the question or the answer, defeats me. So that is why I have come to the conclusion that there must be some deliberate campaign occurring to stop people from being heard. Members have to think about that in this Chamber. It would not be put up with anywhere else in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc58586ae90843338e924ff49957e159\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I respond briefly by saying there is no deliberate campaign on behalf of the National Party. We have repeatedly made representations to the Speaker, through this Parliament, the last Parliament, and the one before that, about trying to get reasonable answers from Ministers. In recent days, Madam Speaker, you have been much to the fore in requiring Ministers to stay away from the sort of extraneous matter that they generally like to stray into in their answers to questions. When that happens the House is generally calmer. But when there is the sort of response\u2014or question, as it actually was\u2014from Mr Goff that was more of a statement than a question, which went on much longer than any of the primary questions on the sheet today would take to deliver, then, of course, this side of the House will get annoyed about that sort of behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227059114402a24d0dbadaa657f21590a0\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: The question I asked was a question. It started with the question word \u201Cwill\u201D\u2014that is generally required in this House. I had asked barely five words of the question when, as the Rt Hon Winston Peters correctly pointed out, at least 15 members of the National Party, including its front bench, all interjected and shouted in a way that meant my colleague sitting right next to me probably could not hear the question I was asking him. There was once in this House a Standing Order and a Speaker\u2019s ruling that stated that interjections were to be rare and reasonable. There is no way that the barracking from the Opposition side of the House, which has gone on all week, could be described as rare or reasonable. I ask that that Standing Order and that Speaker\u2019s ruling be enforced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f535b89d57e34ed1b930a3b43168d6fa\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank members. I accept Mr Brownlee\u2019s statement in this House that the barracking is not deliberate or orchestrated. The effect, however, is the same. I have called a meeting of the whips of all parties for next week to discuss this issue, so the whips have the responsibility also within their parties to attempt to keep order in this House. It is a matter that can be discussed at that point. Of course, if members make comments that are irrelevant to the question or answer, they will get sniping. But, frequently, when there is shouting across the Chamber from whatever side, then, of course, whoever is asking the question or giving the answer will respond. That is human nature. All I am asking is that we try to abide by the Standing Orders and to uphold the democratic right whereby people are allowed to be heard in this country and, particularly, in this Chamber. [Interruption] We have a question that has not been replied to. Would the Minister please ask his question succinctly, and then we will get the reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207cd906cedc243bbb160d78b4ed3939a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister consider making amendments to the electoral law, to ensure that funding of political parties for election campaigns is transparent and accountable, so that the public is aware if and when small covert extremist groups or large corporates are making donations in return for policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dde51894241f4e218f0a2dd0ca9d29fa\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that indeed the Minister will do so, and he is sure that he will be supported in taking that course of action\u2014in fact, welcomed\u2014by the National Party, which, these days, is deeply, deeply embarrassed by the allegations that are swirling around it of relationships with extremist groups and large corporate backers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e62924268714a50862f489150d1668c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Although some members have been given a warning, the moment Phil Goff asked the question a second time and came to the end of it, that barrage started again. I and my colleagues do not see why certain sections of this House obey the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings on this issue of interjections being rare and reasonable, and another group, without any care whatsoever for the image of the House, carries on\u2014[Interruption] There he goes again. He has been here for just 5 minutes and he has all the contempt for the institution that anybody could possibly muster. He will not last much more than 5 minutes longer. But the fact is that I have never seen the likes of it, and they should not be allowed to get away with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229800e0cc9cb145a4a93eb7493da5a1a8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. Members can express themselves, once the question has been heard and the answer has in fact been given, except for, as has been said, interjections that are rare and, hopefully, witty\u2014and that has not happened in this House for some time, I am afraid, because they cannot be heard. So I do not see anything wrong with that\u2014members are entitled to express themselves. What happened, however, was that when the Minister started to reply, it started again. So I certainly did not hear all of the answer. I would ask the Minister to reply very succinctly to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea179a8a15841d4b80f984874d8b5da\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Justice, I am advised that indeed he will, and he is sure he will get backing in that from parties such as National, which is embarrassed by the allegations that swirl around it, about election spending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea579465ea6b4e7bb76e824eae8767e5\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255a51811341940f8b78605767fb33ec6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I agree\u2014that was an irrelevant comment at the end. So would the Minister please\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b80ef198ac5428ebe62c44c0e5206d7\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245e898cc78b941bcb2095d24a7d45aee\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well\u2014I wanted to deal with that, but point of order, the Hon Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac4f8231e9e0485babfa305b79865dca\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, you have now said it is irrelevant. The first two times the Minister made those comments you accepted them as being in order and proceeded to then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266e54e7dd10b48558ac5cb9495e84078\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry. Would the member please be seated. I could not hear\u2014that is the point. If I can hear what members or Ministers are saying, then I will intervene. But if I cannot, I will not, so I will not accept criticism under those circumstances. I asked the Minister, when I heard what he had to say, to withdraw those comments. They were irrelevant to the answer, and I hope that in future all Ministers hear what I am saying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270f9966d46b14865850713d4182708ec\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022370517ba59424e94865128a9a80f27a6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would like the Minister to withdraw first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227819de86078544a2b9c59f0220cf9bf3\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089e10be28ae49d588a144188c488d55\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. In respect of this issue, you need to bear in mind when you are making your rulings just what is being said. There has been discussion in this House about corruption. That is directly related to provisions of legislation under which the Labour Party has been and is still being investigated by statutory officials. Therefore there is some justification in using the word. None of the allegations made by the Minister has any substance or is subject to any investigation under any law by any statutory officer with regard to the National Party, so you are likely to find, for the delicate egos like Mr Peters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236b216750bc348b184df62936462e2b5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is irrelevant, too, if I may say. That is precisely the problem. Would you please withdraw that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022204e85035622436c9735ed7fe24ce17b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5f0c81e5e4a403da6fd70e84a25f7cf\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef2b2948bf1c4096b12b3519e0686c43\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: You are likely to find that when Labour introduces material of that nature, for which there is no justification at all, then the Opposition is likely to react to it. I am surprised that Mr Peters is surprised about it, because he has been the expert in the last 10 years at raising insubstantial allegations in this House, as Labour is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fc87e41526348bd9114163da73226bb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There goes the member again\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c42ab16678c54fed8af8a1a5153efb96\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we are always going to react to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce266c8c862f436d9fa9d4bfd3e6d46d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There goes the member again, and therefore you get the reaction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e38a88a45a8e420597383dab2c050bb0\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: An allegation of corruption is a very serious one. You cannot expect a political party to sit here listening while that is made, with no response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248ff10cdbf764b05a855534889f58235\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And that is precisely it. Those allegations are going across the House. They are matters of debate. It is not for the Speaker to determine the truth or otherwise of any statement. It is for the Speaker to ensure that members can in fact be heard and order maintained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d273358d592744cc91bab259e0233939\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. There has been a remarkable change in behaviour in the House today compared with the last several days. For days we have watched equal barrages across the House from the two major parties. The small parties got so fed up with the situation over the last few days that we collectively decided that when it happened today we were going to leave. However, one of the small parties decided, in the end, not to join us in that. Today we have noticed a remarkable change, in that the barrage is continuing from one side of the House, which has not learnt about the plan, and the other side of the House is being remarkably well behaved. I think that is an interesting change. I welcome your very strong direction to the House that the behaviour needs to change, and I hope this can be maintained in the future. The small parties have had enough\u2014we really have. We are not prepared to sit here and put up with what has been going on over the last week or so, because it is a complete waste of our time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a668da87dbf44608c4ad805a870382b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. It is not a point of order, but it is a contribution to what appears to be an informal debate that has arisen. That debate should, in fact, take place at the meeting with all the whips. I am aware of the frustrations of those who cannot hear, and who become almost irrelevant to the proceedings accordingly. This is a Chamber for all members, not for just some. Supplementary question, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e9cfb542e294d958d8eeaae71d7eb8d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: First, I want to say to that member that if minor parties want to continue supporting a corrupt Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022937a60679dbd42b3bf5213779246d645\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee, please sit down. That is exactly what causes disorder. If you wish to make those comments, as I have already said, there is another place and time to do that. This is not a debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9e1eadda7d14a41b3558c14150a51a9\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that you witnessed exactly what happened there, and Mr Brownlee has done that once before in this House. I ask you to consider Mr Brownlee\u2019s tactic of standing up and using a point of order to make a political statement or a speech, and in doing so\u2014[Interruption] Madam Speaker, I am expecting you to throw those members out, because this is a point of order and should be heard in silence. My point is that he deliberately uses a tactic on you of turning his back on you so that he cannot see you\u2014and you know that he cannot see you. When you call him to order, he continues talking because he cannot see you. When you stand on your feet, he continues. He knows that you are calling him, because he can hear you\u2014he is only about five steps from you. It is a direct tactic of his and it is being used to defy you, to bring this House into disrepute, to actually not comply with the Speaker\u2019s ruling. The\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad4bcf1bbc94ed198d4cd22b25e9443\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mark, you have made your point, and you have made it at great length, and it was not a point of order. That is the point, really. [Interruption] No, I am sorry; that is the point I am making. Please, if members wish to make points of order, make them relevant. Occasionally, they contribute to the House. Can we now have a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e6bb93ebed94253afdab04fa1a4325d\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister of Justice, the Prime Minister, or any other Minister instructed the Ministry of Justice to work on legislation that would amend section 214B of the Electoral Act to validate the Labour Party\u2019s alleged corrupt practice in breaking the spending cap during the 2005 election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221244336b7372492b8cf11a3cda61f105\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: No work has been done, as I mentioned in the primary answer, on validating legislation. I reject totally any sense of allegation about corruption. The member on that side of the House would know about that because of what National has been doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51a0d4be16447dcaf70aa88fc0e66aa\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Are you happy with that answer from the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248130d823cb54e43b8f5e6a90e0d2f53\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, allegations of corruption have been made backwards and forwards. It would be much better if they were not made by anyone, because there will be a response if they are. In other words, one party would be shut down if that were the case. What the Speaker must do is try to make sure that there is an opportunity for everyone to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222834460b067c48a495b1c6dc19421c08\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. To rule out the use of the word \u201Ccorruption\u201D is just unacceptable in this circumstance. An Act of this Parliament\u2014section 214B of the Electoral Act\u2014makes it clear that if a person or persons knowingly breach the spending cap during an election, they are involved in a corrupt practice. We are hearing that the Government is about to change the legislation around electoral spending, in order, apparently, to get more disclosure. Well, we do not need disclosure around this one, because the whole country knows that Labour overspent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b60e8846324d0ab367050b2d717cba\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You have made your point. As I said, could members please make their points succinctly. I have not ruled out the word \u201Ccorruption\u201D. In fact, Mr Brownlee, I thought that was what you were asking me to do. That was the point I was making\u2014that when that word is used, there will be a response. I have not ruled it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689b9decbce544b2aeb613f2931cd6f4\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister of Justice received any information on how the Exclusive Brethren may have come into possession of the personal electoral enrolment details of New Zealanders, given that possession of such information is necessary to conduct the level of phone canvassing and push-polling undertaken throughout the country this time last year by the Exclusive Brethren; and whether or not the Minister has received any such information, can he confirm that the passing of such details from a political party to any other organisation is against the law of the land?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022891f30c3fc9a440c9b6c3e2bfa4da210\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not aware of whether the Minister of Justice has received any information, but I can confirm that the activity outlined in that question is illegal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2878779606c499989eeda9b7ca21aa7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Would he expect any Minister who was aware of or saw the letters from the Chief Electoral Officer sent on 2 and 12 September 2005, stating that the Helen Clark pledge card and the fold-out brochure should be included as election expenses, to take every necessary step to ensure the Labour Party did not commit a corrupt practice under the Electoral Act; if not, is that because Labour Ministers, and this Prime Minister, think they are above the law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808d58ab0a2c48cfad5f5de3080703dc\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I will not reply to what is a hypothetical question, but I would refer the member to the commitments card in 2002 under the name of Bill English, and would ask the same question of him in a hypothetical way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebd7ac70f1be49769cdffe921947fe69\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the letters of 2 and 12 September 2005 from the Chief Electoral Officer to the Labour Party, which make it abundantly clear that the pledge card spending had to be included in the election expenses, and would be considered so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4384b90ddd244f9bedf37dc8ad37cbd\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the commitments card under the name of Mr Bill English\u2014a commitments card that was used in 2002.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996501b0a3ae49229e5cd3fe543bc63e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Have Government officials done any work to override or amend the Auditor-General\u2019s powers under section 65Z of the Public Finance Act to direct Ministers to report to Parliament on matters relating to unlawful expenditure of taxpayer dollars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215bded0f88634cdfb0419afca5644ed5\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c03ee9b42b34e7fbee4c35a1657539c\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek your guidance and clarification to assist us in maintaining order. I draw your attention to Standing Orders 103 and 85. Standing Order 103, \u201CMembers to address Speaker\u201D, states: \u201CA member on being called to speak addresses the Speaker and, through the Speaker, the House.\u201D I also remind you that all members, when they receive their induction training here, are taught that not only must they address the Speaker, and the House through the Speaker, but they must face the Speaker. Standing Order 85(1), \u201CDisorderly conduct\u201D, states: \u201CThe Speaker may order any member whose conduct is highly\u201D\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f19d85ee9f5436999b0a4a573a53947\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would members please respect the member\u2019s right to make a point of order? If he would make it succinctly, however, it would help the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aa424b44ffd4c0185a499d096c5f34e\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Madam Speaker, the two paragraphs are very clear, and my point to you is that members standing and turning their backs on you is not in accordance with Standing Order 103, and that Standing Order 85, \u201CDisorderly conduct\u201D, as I raised with you, does give you the power to throw such a member out of the House, I would have thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219c0a8f1d7174b2ea875f2b912576fd6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think\u2014[Interruption] I do not need any assistance from you, Dr Smith. I thank the member for his points. I had noticed that often members, in fact, do address the person who asked the question, or the person to whom they are asking the question. So, at times, I do not take that as disrespect. Also, at times, I notice that the positioning of the microphones means that some people\u2019s bodies are in different shapes, if I can put like that\u2014leave it there, please! Yes, it is a matter for the Speaker to determine at what point members\u2019 conduct is unacceptable and they should leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291df2a9ebac745c698914e7831033751\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a41f4d4f095040fcbad7c8243e8ea633\u0022\u003EJohn Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Holiday over, is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75a2f1991f6432c983b7fdf8b4599bc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022513310d8f4aa447099c74cbcba15b6d5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, would the member please\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b55b71fbcd40f3a8f9d9aa2a9497be\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is Mr Carter exempt from the rules of this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f5dd0838564a2dad5a2f6ac9a6b650\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The rules are, as I said, that members are allowed to make interjections on both questions and answers, but members must be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea57525ed2b54736b1cfba16d26d705e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b8c7d8403b34bd9be01c1a13e0cad30\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve been away too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82d328b574f4df39895b0d7c4b466ac\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but I never lost my mind like you did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022033a52b6bded4883ae4168d4df5e9979\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please, members. And may I say welcome back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220508956c55a8489198b55ca4734802f3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7035bbe5e514f7ca3d81cde09cf7bf4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, let us have some order, please, where we just stick to the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223351e31ad4c4475283273699e48f7602\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d1e3b955a9041aaa12f7ddb45644ac4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He always gets nasty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200d7c47b99d949f5893f2fc41b88b4d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: There he goes again. That boy is cruising for a bruising, I tell you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dc9ae8247f140ecb5a42d13bd39970c\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d1e0643d774d629bc24a2d3c15946b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, you are. Could I ask the Minister whether the Ministry of Justice, in its examination of electoral spending, is aware that in one party\u2019s case of $1.86 million of campaign transfers at the last election, $1.74 million came from secret trusts\u2014that is, only $12,000 came from the party rank and file\u2014and that, second, that same party was involved in a long protection racket in respect of Telecom, and that is why it was given free Telecom services and took a million dollars\u2014[Interruption] Those young ignoramuses would not know the facts, but I do. They do not know the truth and the sham that is being portrayed in New Zealand today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9679f9a24114121a7279bce02035863\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I understand that that was meant to be a supplementary question, and I am surprised that you did not step in when the member clearly strayed beyond the bounds of the supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebcf9d42bb7d47c19bc0c25d2ba0bfc9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please phrase his supplementary question succinctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a985c7a2177a41308931fb160fc143e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I am setting out the circumstances of a worthy examination by the Ministry of Justice. The last thing I want to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daa3106930524933a20dc85c067f248f\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d7213900c346b883134bd9c9a85308\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is a question, Mr English. As I understand it, Mr Peters is asking the Minister whether he has any reports of this. He is giving a list of matters, and that is not infrequently heard in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add31878421d4fffbae5bafcbd0b7431\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. He stood up and said: \u201CI am making out the case \u2026\u201D or \u201CI am doing \u2026\u201D. There was no question word\u2014no indication of a question whatsoever\u2014and you should not be defending that kind of stance. He got up, he did not take a point of order, he did not ask a question, and you let him continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f019bb6b3d024d8ba362b778d548d3f2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I listened very carefully, Mr English. We will start again. Rt Hon Winston Peters, with a question, so that everyone can hear you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225240084cfc3c4b228f66d698ed6356c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Ministry of Justice, in its examination of electoral spending, have regard to the fact that one party in the last campaign made $1.86 million of campaign transfers, of which $1.74 million came from secret trusts and only $12,000 came from the party rank and file\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b54e9f7d01864870b6b17bc9393811e2\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022075e0b07a60a478ab0ee709c6b86bb40\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee is entitled to be heard in silence on a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc8aec7e38494226897707e370b81cef\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Quite apart from the fact that members of the National Party can, one by one, stand up and confirm to the House just how much money the rank and file from their own electorates sent to our headquarters for the campaign\u2014it was embarrassing; many of us had to get trucks in to send it up because people were so keen\u2014it is an utter nonsense for you to allow Mr Peters to suggest that the money came from secret trusts. Everyone knows that every trust in this country annually sends a financial return to the Ministry of Economic Development. There is no such thing as a secret trust, I say to Mr Peters. It is a legal entity, and there is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. We had heaps of cash; we can tell him how much it was. We know that it is Mr Peters\u2019 day to come back and dig the Government out of a hole, but this is not the way to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b43ab8af8e4b848728415dca5ef8c1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, what was the point of order? The second thing is I did not name any political party, but, clearly, we have already had an admission of guilt! The last thing I want to say, to finish off my question to the Minister of Justice, is to ask whether the Ministry of Justice will look into the $1 million paid by Fay Richwhite to the National Party in order to buy it absolute protection against proper investigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aef734ea29f4946b0753bc0a0802158\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, my point of order was a legitimate one under Standing Order 371(1). If you look at 371(1)(a), (b), and (c), you can pick up any one of those for the words that Mr Peters used there. He, of course, is prepared to lecture other members in the House on procedure because they have been here only a short time; he has been here quite a long time, and should know better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc7bf30927e848a3b2aa6137b794bb9a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if Mr Peters in his question was asserting those matters as a fact, then he can be challenged on it. If it is a hypothesis, however, it can proceed. As Mr Peters said in relation to the first part of the question, no particular party was, in fact, named. So that part of the question, I think, can remain, but the rest cannot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7ff1b4c60a94f69bbea999acf72e061\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I just missed the last part of the hypothesis that Mr Peters put, and I ask whether he could repeat it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224884cf82b2fb42d3809c4b4ae22c5c75\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I want to make it very clear that this is not a hypothesis. The fact is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022464e0179158148bcaac1ab54a3f0a7e0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if it is a fact it can be challenged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db90614be45d44cbae259d9aeaed1ea8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In a past campaign, Fay Richwhite did buy itself some political protection in respect of the BNZ and the wine-box inquiry, and paid the National Party $1 million. Junior over here has been around for 5 minutes and would not know what day it is! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295c4461a32fb4c0e82bd9069a3e4d431\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Tanczos was seeking, because he could not hear, that the last part of the question be repeated\u2014was that correct? I ruled the last part of the question out of order, so, to move on, would the Hon Steve Maharey please respond. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223806eb469c84f57a3cd00ba8d7a7240\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The way of answering the question would be, I think, to draw attention to the fact that the Government is undertaking a review of the electoral finance regime that is focused on electorate expense, of course, as has been well announced. That would be an opportunity to look at such things as ceilings on advertising expenditure, appropriate restrictions on electoral advertising, third-party advertising, apportionment rules, clarification of election expenses, whether more controls on donations are needed, and other matters as raised by the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3cf3fd87bd433aab4f4fbe448d89e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: As part of this review or examination of electoral spending, and in view of the consumer protection legislation in this country, will there be any judgment or examination of value for money on the basis of the millions of dollars spent on the National Party and the ACT party\u2014all gone to waste?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a04dc60f121e482c8e211728decdd06c\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: This matter lies outside the delegation of the Minister of Justice, but I am sure that the National Party, which has these allegations swirling around it, would be very willing to comply with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6615479cf2404aac7090a14d4aa463\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We do not need those last comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022567f983240e2445f882fc72d922548b5\u0022\u003EAdult Education\u2014Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e632f8d66e5e4faf8fd05e4daadd7dc0\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: What is the Government doing to support adult learners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8f057dadab8486696efa8ce920c11b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8f057dadab8486696efa8ce920c11b6\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Acting Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E In 2005 the Government supported over 400,000 learners in adult and community education. Adult learning helps people to gain skills, improve their confidence, expand their knowledge, and reach their potential. This week the Government celebrates Adult Learners\u2019 Week, which aims to raise the profile of adult learning, recognise the efforts and achievements of learners and teachers alike, and inform people of learning opportunities available in the community. This has been endorsed, of course, by the House. I thereby thank Judy Turner, Dr Pita Sharples, Metiria Turei, and the Hon Bill English for their support of Adult Learners\u2019 Week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275d2b1ab13244d5695ab6660a903bfd4\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to support adult literacy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7b9e837c314ae685e65a41aac10c97\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Tomorrow the Government also celebrates International Literacy Day. One of the key priorities signalled in the Government\u2019s newly released tertiary education strategy discussion document is to build strong foundations in literacy, numeracy, and language. Moving forward, the Government will look to invest in increasing language skills in the workforce and raising foundation skills for parents to support their children\u2019s learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f051357e9c64d9091656f4e4d1e03a6\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain why he and his predecessor, Steve Maharey, have put in place policy that is, as we speak, destroying New Zealand\u2019s traditional structure of adult and community education, which used to be provided cheaply through schools, and which will now be provided through a very expensive bureaucratic mechanism that will see most of the money end up in polytechs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8e960de79b4653a7b0be48ffd1efae\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The intention is, of course, to continue to have schools to provide adult education. But I would point out the irony of a man who campaigned on the tightening up of rules that he put in place in the 1990s, now complaining that these changes might be a little tighter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c35b15bd5438470facaac6735ea81d94\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker; t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. What support, access, and equitable funding are made available to attract M\u0101ori and Pacific adult learners to programmes that meet their aspirations and needs, given the contrast between current record low levels of unemployment in the general population and the high levels of unemployment in M\u0101ori and Pasifika populations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022507046b859684c4498db9dbb26dac058\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: One of the changes in the adult community education area is to set priorities that will, of course, be of use to M\u0101ori learners\u2014that is, targeting learners whose initial learning was not successful, raising foundation skills, encouraging lifelong learning, strengthening communities by identifying community needs then meeting those needs, and strengthening social cohesion. All of these areas will have some benefit to the learners the member is referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022176fb88c147b484a9cea26295d8c1b0f\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u2014Ministerial Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df52da784624b56ac40c073b6817146\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: If, as he told the House yesterday with respect to Taito Philip Field\u2019s involvement with Thai nationals in Samoa, \u201Cthe information in question was not placed in the usual system that supported the Associate Minister\u2019s decision making\u201D, exactly how was the information used?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00224d7789abe2164135a38d28174634d475\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d7789abe2164135a38d28174634d475\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E The Ingram report records at paragraphs 144, 155, and 157 that the information received on 9 June was used by the group manager, service international, in calling the Associate Minister of Immigration\u2019s private secretary to provide that information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741874a9781544fc9e2e4422338b24f5\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: If, as the Minister told Parliament yesterday in respect of information received on 10 May, \u201Cthe director of the Pacific division recalls that he attempted to pass it on to the Minister\u2019s private secretary.\u201D, on what date or dates did that happen, or is the Minister now telling us that he misled the House yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c274ee6db2e466088e19edd79396ff5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that that matter was covered in my earlier point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239611d85567e499b816175f2c3daa022\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: If the director of the Pacific division attempted to pass on information, be it on 10 May or whatever, to the Associate Minister\u2019s private secretary, why did the director of the Pacific division not tell that to the Ingram inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f3fd6e73004404099f070c21eeea753\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: In my earlier point of order I made it clear that it was the director of service international who attempted to pass the information. Paragraph 157 of the report sets out Mr Ingram\u2019s view of the likely sequence of events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d77b75da5548b1911aa56947f4da30\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the group manager for service international tell the Ingram inquiry that he received the information he passed on to the Minister\u2019s private secretary in a fax direct from the Apia branch manager, Mr James Dalmer, not from the director of the Pacific division\u2014how does the Minister explain that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aad6dee6fbb8446c8a4ee73683214591\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not for me to revisit the conclusions of the Ingram inquiry. Mr Ingram concludes that a number of the recollections about the transmission of information in that regard appear to have been misplaced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768c34f7804241caad2fe800e6460ba7\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What is the truth of the Minister\u2019s statement yesterday that the director of the Pacific division recalled\u2014that is what the Minister said\u2014attempting to pass on the information to the Associate Minister\u2019s private secretary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d404715d598e4103b4a6117d021b08ea\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The truth of that matter was clearly covered in my earlier point of order. I apologised. It was the director of service international who gave that recollection to Mr Ingram.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e6284bbb284b34b7504de1ad0222a8\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Who else from the various sections of the Minister\u2019s department attempted to advise the Minister\u2019s private secretary of information on Taito Phillip Field\u2019s involvement with the Thais in Samoa prior to the Minister making his decision on their cases on 17 June 2005?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb133e499fc43c5bb7cead8cd319fc1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The information I have to hand is that the director of service international attempted to pass on that information on 9 June, but that the Ingram report inquiry, at paragraphs 157 and 158, makes clear the conclusion that in all likelihood the information was not passed to the Minister. I do not have any other information on that, to hand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e515c4954cc45d7aeb096d97c84f918\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table statements made by the president of the Labour Party, suggesting that the Ingram report has many factual inaccuracies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022653244d31c454089916434e5efb4902c\u0022\u003ETe Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill\u2014Crown Stratum\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210c528e8f9fe401198bebf073f01f5cb\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: He aha te p\u016Btake m\u014D te whakauru mai i t\u0113tahi whakaaro h\u014Du e k\u012Ba nei, ar\u0101, ko te rangatiratanga Karauna ki ng\u0101 hau \u014D-runga, kei roto nei i Te Pire Whakataunga o ng\u0101 Roto o Te Arawa e takoto ana?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[What is the rationale for introducing a new concept, called the Crown stratum, as set out in the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u00225e091ba204ae4763bc785b499e4d38dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e091ba204ae4763bc785b499e4d38dc\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: Ehara t\u0113n\u0101 whakaaro i te whakaaro h\u014Du. The terminology may be new, but the concept is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e3c500e36f45398f30b381b88ca95c\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Ka taea e ia te whakaatu mai n\u014Dnahea, \u0101, n\u0101 te aha i whakaaro te Karauna n\u0101n\u0101 te \u201Crangatiratanga Karauna ki ng\u0101 hau \u014D-runga\u201D, i runga i te mea koinei te w\u0101 tuatahi kua whakauruhia t\u0113nei take ki roto i te Whare P\u0101remata i t\u0113nei rangi tonu nei?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Can he please advise when and how the Crown assumed ownership of the so-called \u201CCrown stratum\u201D, when it is being introduced for the first time in Parliament today?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c9259eaadb14258aac45f69636848a8\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: Me p\u0113nei an\u014D te whakautu, ehara t\u0113nei i te mea h\u014Du. Mai r\u0101 an\u014D i rapuhia ai e te Karauna i te mana m\u014D ng\u0101 wai, me ng\u0101 hau \u014D-runga, i ng\u0101 wai katoa. I will say again that this is not a new concept. It has always been the Crown\u2019s view that it has ownership of the water stratum, including the airspace, on behalf of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce7ee864329439c84e7b7e82c5de784\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Ka taea e ia te whakam\u0101rama,he aha i kore ai te rangatiratanga Karauna ki ng\u0101 hau \u014D-runga i whakaarohia i te w\u0101 i whakataunga ng\u0101 tono a Ng\u0101i Tahu r\u0101ua ko T\u016Brangitukua n\u0101 te mea, he roto kei runga i aua whenua, \u0101, ka whakauruhia he ture hoki whakamuri kia kore ai e riro ki a r\u0101ua te mana m\u014D ng\u0101 hau \u014D-runga, m\u0113n\u0101 k\u0101ore , he aha ai?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Can he explain why the Crown stratum was not considered relevant in the cases of Ng\u0101i T\u0101hu and Ng\u0101ti T\u016Brangitukua, given that some of the lands transferred would have included water bodies, and will retrospective legislation be introduced to deprive them of their airspace; if not why not?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u00A0\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac8c116b4cf0413ea040237273008234\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: I tutukihia ai t\u0113r\u0101 raupatu ker\u0113me i raro i te K\u0101wanatanga N\u0101hinara. I t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101, rapuhia tonu ai hoki te Karauna i ng\u0101 wai, ng\u0101 hau hoki. P\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D i te roto o Taup\u014D. Those claims were settled under the previous National Government, and as for Lake Taup\u014D\u2019s situation, which includes ownership over water, that was not as a result of a Treaty settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a33caa0ab7c942fdac71854ceee584c3\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Kei te p\u0101tai au i te p\u0101tai m\u0113n\u0101 i whakautua taku p\u0101tai. Ko taku p\u0101tai k\u0113 m\u014D ng\u0101 k\u0113reme o Ngai Tahu r\u0101ua ko T\u016Brangitukua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[I am merely asking whether my question was answered. My question was actually about the Ng\u0101i Tahu and T\u016Brangitukua claim.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ef7ce48fa1468298181f116f2d2b62\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e, i whakautuhia e au i t\u0113r\u0101 p\u0101tai. I tutukihia ai \u0113r\u0101 ker\u0113me i raro i te K\u0101wanatanga N\u0101hinara. Tuku atu t\u0113n\u0101 p\u0101tai ki t\u0113r\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[Yes, I answered that question. Those claims were settled under the National Government. The question should be directed at that party.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7eb984660424c82a8a977159ec47f96\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I p\u0101tai au i te p\u0101tai ki te Minita o te Karauna, k\u0101ore au i p\u0101tai ki a N\u0101hinara.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E [I asked the Minister of the Crown the question, and not National.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3eafa95bd64ea6a4dbd8f400cdb32b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister did address the question, however. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d047141ab1b4662b3f69d18743ec2e4\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: N\u0101 runga i te \u0101huatanga ko n\u0101ia tonu nei te w\u0101 hei whakam\u0101rama i te rangatiratanga Karauna ki ng\u0101 hau \u014D-runga i raro i te ture, \u0101, n\u0101 t\u0113nei kua aukatihia te mana o Te Arawa r\u0101ua ko T\u016Bwharetoa ki a Ranginui e t\u016B nei, \u0101, n\u0101 t\u0113nei ka taea te k\u012B, k\u0101ore he mana a ture ng\u0101 mahi tohatoha t\u016B\u0101whiorangi. M\u0113n\u0101 k\u0101ore, he aha ai?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Given that the Crown stratum is only now being described in legislation, and is being used to deprive Te Arawa and T\u016Bwharetoa of their rights to airspace, does it make the allocation of spectrum, for example, illegal; if not, why not?] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022379522fc763a4dad98978f3763b3b216\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: Kei roto i te w\u0101hanga tuawhitu o te Pire o Te Arawa me \u0101na roto, ka puta te k\u014Drero, kua tautokohia hoki te Karauna te whanaungatanga, mai i a Te Arawa ki \u0101na roto katoa. N\u014D reira, k\u012Bhai te Karauna kia k\u012B, kore kau he mana a Te Arawa ki ng\u0101 roto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E[There is a statement in Clause 7 of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill where the Crown acknowledges Te Arawa\u2019s relationship to all its lakes. Therefore, the Crown does not say that Te Arawa has no authority over the lakes]. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EClause 7 of the bill acknowledges Te Arawa\u2019s relationship with all the lakes\u2014including the Crown stratum\u2014defined by Te Arawa as being spiritual, traditional, economic, and cultural. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221da05bea6a1045a9afde1e9a47115d2c\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. E p\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D taku k\u014Drero ki ng\u0101 p\u0101tai i mua. Ko taku p\u0101tai i h\u0101ngai tonu ki a Te Arawa r\u0101ua ko T\u016Bwharetoa me te \u0101huatanga o te t\u016B\u0101whiorangi. K\u0101ore au i rongo i te whakautu ki t\u0113r\u0101 p\u0101tai. T\u0113r\u0101 pea, k\u0101re i te tika taku rongo, kei te \u012Bnoi atu kia whakautua taua p\u0101tai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[My point of order is the same as for the previous questions. My question was about the spectrum as it referred directly to Te Arawa and T\u016Bwharetoa. I did not hear the response to that question. Perhaps I did not hear it properly; would the Minister answer it, please?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228106e226bfbb4ccc9476d2dc33863ba1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I heard it, the member did address the question. If he wishes to add any more to the answer, he may do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fefec1f3c674eb0b1f9ebfe939a2679\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: N\u0101 te mema k\u0113 t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero i whakam\u0101rama. Ehara ko Te Arawa. That is the member\u2019s interpretation of Te Arawa\u2019s relationship with the lakes, not Te Arawa\u2019s interpretation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e93f119b0028421b9abb4e6fd766fbd8\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Workforce\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce4fb2c5ee549839782ae2d9c1af22f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he satisfied with the health workforce; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022593a6669a24f4ff99f505f1cb0356d9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022593a6669a24f4ff99f505f1cb0356d9e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand has a hard-working, world-class, and growing health workforce. There are 5,000 more doctors and nurses working in our public hospitals than there were in 1999. This Government wants to do even better, however, and I have today announced a new task force to progress and finalise a series of changes to medical training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e034c39ccc423587c3198507ff7f48\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the concerns of the surgical workforce and others, reported widely today, that district health boards have been culling patients without specialist clinical input, and can he guarantee that across the country, patients have been culled from waiting lists under clinical supervision, rather than being culled by a hospital manager more accountable to the Government\u2019s political objectives than to patients\u2019 health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627b1f8c84b6426f869d9a2d290366fd\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen reports of that nature and I have also seen reports in the media correcting the facts. In Canterbury, the Canterbury District Health Board has encouraged specialists to talk to their colleagues in primary care and will continue to do so. Members may recall public notices issued jointly by the district health boards and primary health organisation providers, which is further evidence of improving linkages between the primary and secondary sector in Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226053acb5dfb14a5895e1afc55c0523a7\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports on respect and support for New Zealand\u2019s health workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022446ad57c137c4471856747faf9443827\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have. I have seen a report today that a doctor with 30 years\u2019 experience as a cardiologist, along with the Dean of Medicine at Auckland University, along with two professors of nursing, with over 60 years\u2019 combined experience, and, further, a former president of the Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners, have been attacked by Tony Ryall and the National Party as \u201Cdo-nothing bureaucrats\u201D. The new members of the workforce task force are some of New Zealand\u2019s most well-respected health professionals, and I find Tony Ryall\u2019s lack of respect for them appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221862013b80f44da7b89740e3b8bae3e0\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his answer that he gave two questions ago, which suggested that he believes that the surgeons are lying when they say they were not involved in the culling of patients from Canterbury, and what would he say to that surgical workforce, which says there has been no clinical basis to the waiting list cull, and that patients will die as a result of the Government-ordered data cleansing of waiting lists\u2014a view that has been supported by specialists and managers around the country today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f618e40ad94f1bbc69e502f30a691b\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday the Canterbury District Health Board publicly apologised to patients and staff as a result of the way some patients have been referred back to general practitioners. They apologised for the way they have been referred back, so that would suggest that in some cases there have been difficulties, but the corrections to the allegations made yesterday morning do stand and are valid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224629b289a904c41ad444777da30e0c3\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why does not the Minister admit that the waiting list cull is not about health, is not about patient care, and is not about clinical safety\u2014it is all about cynical manipulation of the waiting list to claim some sort of pathetic credit; and is not that the reason why the surgical workforce around the country is nearly unanimous this week in its criticism of the Government, and now the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, members of the Council of Trade Unions, have accused this Minister personally of political indifference, a preoccupation with data cleansing, and arrogant political interference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230510a9d7b3f4dd4ae597a60ce1fc5af\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No one can argue that this Government has not invested heavily in health. No one can argue with the fact that under this Labour-led Government we have 5,000 more doctors and nurses working in our public hospitals. No one can argue with the fact that we have built more public hospitals than any Government in New Zealand\u2019s history. We are proud of our record in health, and we will keep working with health professionals to add to our successes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022238ee1c8e96642009d38b1a606fc0414\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How will replacing the Health Workforce Advisory Committee with a new health workforce task force fix the staffing crisis; and surely, after 40 reports, visions, strategies, and surveys, and 7 years, this Government could give the country some action on our workforce crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8cbf80ad6e44e0894237165699e708d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will remind the member that in attacking the series of reports that have been produced over the past few years, he is actually attacking the health professionals and medical and nursing organisations that have prepared them. What happened was that we came out of the 1990s and, therefore\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273890525506c40b4973a324482108808\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. It is impossible to hear. Would members please keep it down, so that other members can hear the replies. It is almost as though members do not want to hear the replies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226969c0ef80db4f8ab9b7624f4029696e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will remind the member that in attacking the series of reports that have been produced over the past few years, the member is actually attacking the health professionals and medical and nursing organisations that have prepared them. What is more, those reports were needed because, coming out of the 1990s, there was a view about that the Employment Contracts Act would do it and that planning for workforce was a wrong-headed idea. That is why this country ran out of radiation therapists and dental therapists, and why we had shortages all over the place. This Government is progressively addressing those things, because we do not have a free-market approach to the health workforce of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227171061fe0bd413e9beaae44eeaa34f5\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen his ministry\u2019s latest breast-screening data for women aged 45 to 49 years of age, which shows that only one woman in five has actually been screened\u2014which is exactly what the previous Minister of Health was told would happen\u2014and what will he do to sort out the health workforce crisis so that women are not at risk of dying of breast cancer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc5e9000c6b4775b621e6e8b5f8cc43\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The number of women with breast cancer is climbing very quickly. In the area of 45 to 49-year-olds, it is climbing much less quickly, but that is because this Government extended the breast screening to two separate age groups and, as a result of that, more women now have more testing for breast screening than ever before, and more women are being protected by the early detection of breast cancer than ever before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c76842edd714b20a4fa0bdc8ca2764b\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied with the full-time emergency ambulance workforce in places like Horowhenua, where numerous emergencies are attended by single-crew ambulances\u2014with one example being when a Levin patient with severe chest pains remained in an unstable condition all the way to Palmerston North Hospital, with no one monitoring the patient\u2014and will the Minister now acknowledge that lives are being put at risk, as there are single-crew ambulances all over provincial areas of the North Island, and what will he do about this extremely urgent health workforce issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deeae57c716d45368b25bd4af49e5be0\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, approximately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be9dc50aab944679b4c139b8dd356f87\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members ask questions on the assumption, presumably, that they want answers. So would they please allow the Minister to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e647e025b095425eaa1d53e8d33ec28a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, 82 percent of all ambulance services are double-crewed and 18 percent are not. This is a somewhat significant improvement on what occurred during the 1990s and, as years go by, we will improve the services still further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220098df663df4263a1ce78a7e14e3255\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the document \u201CMeeting the challenges: Health workforce development plan 2000: September 2000\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3171e6cef29445faff0494189121fe2\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the document \u201CCancer screening programmes workforce development strategy 2001\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d18607678c146aaa9260fbbb3a7441f\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the document \u201CHealth Workforce Advisory Committee annual report: Minister of Health 2001\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243dca8ff546844b3b3e580eeddbe7f8a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732ee65af32f4031857b81e218211690\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the document \u201CThe primary health care and community nurse workforce survey 2001\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cf99059d25849d19bdef12966ee9b8f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f12c0b10100142118011abc8c7651e14\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the document \u201CThe rural general recruitment and retention in New Zealand report to the Minister: a first phase of analysis of surveys to assess the fluctuations in the workforce 2001\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227876d55e14cd4558857895980a9ceb21\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1f45e1be884c12a91c3ed41213ee8f\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I also seek leave to table the documents \u201CNew Zealand annual rural workforce survey 2001\u201D, the \u201CClinical training agency strategic intentions 2002\u201D, the \u201CHealth technicians training 2002\u201D, the second annual report of the Health Workforce Advisory Committee 2002, the \u201CMental health workforce development framework 2002\u201D, the annual rural workforce survey of 2002, \u201CThe New Zealand health workforce: a stocktake of capacity 2001\u201D, the New Zealand health workforce \u201CFraming Future Directions\u201D discussion paper 2002, the \u201CDisability workforce analysis report 2003\u201D, The New Zealand Health Workforce: Future Directions \u2014 Recommendations to the Minister of Health 2003, The New Zealand Health Workforce: Framing Directions Analysis 2003, the \u201CClinical agency strategic intentions 2004\u201D, the \u201CDisability support services survey provider survey 2004\u201D, the \u201CHealth workforce\u201D\u2014[Interruption] Well, that was a service provider survey from 2004\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230a46db1b9354b45bb8ecd8a33352026\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member just read what is to be tabled, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292f2cf1aa5f9456f85edd3766d466abd\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Madam Speaker, I am tabling them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022141353df31554859aecb0785e447257b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Continue, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a45f8a9579d4b9cb58eba3e94292046\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: The \u201CHealth workforce fourth annual report 2004\u201D, the \u201CHealth workforce\u201D,\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d51cd350030414b9a277ccef5561bed\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68991ef57034e45bb8c7e3a5c5e6725\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: This is a list; there is just one question\u2014the \u201CNational screening unit workforce development action plan\u201D, the \u201CNZER ageing New Zealand health and disability demand projections report\u201D, the \u201CPacific development report\u201D\u2014[Interruption] Oh, I do not think that Mr Peters is interjecting on a point of order, because he would not behave like that\u2014the \u201CDisability support services survey 2005\u201D, the \u201CHealth Workforce Advisory Committee 2005\u201D\u2014there is not long to go\u2014the \u201CHealth Workforce Advisory purpose and practice 2005\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231ea8b3f57af4bb69cdebb53dc4271e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b2eaeef783e45a8988a58f04ee24735\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is on a point of order at the moment. The member will finish the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e3252c107847e2a0caccd4b02683ef\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the \u201CStrategic principles 2005\u201D, the \u201CCare and support discussion paper 2006\u201D, the \u201CHealth workforce advisory fit for purpose and practice advice to the Minister 2006\u201D, the \u201CHealth workforce advisory national guidelines environment 2006\u201D, the \u201CHealth workforce summary of the national guidelines for the promotion of healthy working environments\u201D, and\u2014the latest\u2014the \u201CTerms of reference for the new health workforce task force\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a494a3e32d54674989e0c37f1d5b69e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a3661f6a4ea4783b78a7ac959e407f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have never ever seen in my career in this House any member of Parliament abuse the House in that way, with regard to what is a very special privilege: the right to publish documents that are usually\u2014not in every case\u2014not known to the public and have not been published. In this case every document is public, and the member just sought to waste the House\u2019s time. It is 1\u00BD hours since we started question time, we have got to question 6, and he tries that trick. What is so special about the National Party? The rest of us have certain rules we have to abide by. I think it is deadly serious that National members can, with all the concern that has been expressed by members of other parties in this House today and before, get up and carry on in the same darn way. Frankly, Madam Speaker, if they are going to behave like that I do not think a Minister has any obligation to reply, at all. Not just one person interjected but about 12 people did at once. I do not think they should be allowed to carry on as though they are something special. They have lost three elections in a row.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f220eb9edee485f9ef985cfea3e2db0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure that that was a point of order. Members, on quite frequent occasions, seek leave to table documents that are in the public arena. The only other comment I would make is that if members do not wish to hear the answers to questions, then obviously it will be up to the discretion of the Minister whether to give them one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e9022bf13a4f1583c785957508750b\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the July travelogue from the pre-hospital care union, which documents 16 shocking emergencies\u2014that is one every second day\u2014attended by single-crew ambulances in Horowhenua, including the transporting of a manic psychiatric patient to Palmerston North Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221772e9f5-5379-4bfe-9d9b-eaffb4c61b02\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099904f4afbd45a5b20986f97bf2d09e\u0022\u003EHon Harry Duynhoven\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister of Health believe that the list of documents just read by the member opposite, and ridiculed, were valuable pieces of information that the public should see prepared, and that those documents were in fact a useful use of health professionals\u2019 time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d022154f9c484e05b9f6c97afccd0a58\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is from that sort of effort that we have seen a very significant increase in Pacific Islanders in the New Zealand workforce, a significant increase in M\u0101ori in the New Zealand workforce, and a significant increase in the provision of breast-screening services throughout New Zealand. It is why we have ended up with more people in ambulances, it is why we have improved our mental health workforce, and it is why we have more than 5,000 extra nurses and doctors in our health system since the change of Government. That is the difference between a Government that does something and a Government that does nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7fd3230820e40e4abd7b34a390e95ae\u0022\u003EGulf Cooperation Council States\u2014Free-trade Negotiations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e61dff5c4e34fa7946f606ed86acd38\u0022\u003EJILL PETTIS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: Has he received any response to his approach earlier this year to the Gulf Cooperation Council States to open negotiations for a free-trade agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce855b5ecd98454b80695b808d975606\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce855b5ecd98454b80695b808d975606\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Foreign Ministers from the six countries that make up the Gulf Cooperation Council\u2014Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar\u2014yesterday agreed to begin negotiations with New Zealand on a free-trade agreement. Scoping discussions for the negotiations will begin in the next couple of months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207d020a815f14210a12ae4658085ee96\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will have some order in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ce88d87c62146829acbd31b9791567e\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: How important economically to New Zealand will a successful outcome to these negotiations be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb77660084145788612dbf8db98ac97\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: There are no restriction now. What are they wasting their money for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cb5a5e917524730adb3e51b77057016\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: If the windbag on the Opposition side of the House can shut up for a moment, I will answer his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba7e26e4f5f4ce1ac2e472c131accad\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know that interjections will inspire further interjections, but that remark was not appropriate. Will the Minister please stick to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246921a93edf44a98b0fe7a63d3ea61e4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I will answer two questions\u2014one delivered officially and one by interjection. Firstly, New Zealand exports merchandise goods to the Gulf Cooperation Council States to a value of approximately $720 million. That makes those States, collectively, about the same size as an important market like Germany to New Zealand. Secondly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df439835bc12491ea3942f555b28ba61\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right; there\u2019s no restriction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d17ab2af35447e884a3a73deaa5471\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: To answer the member who keeps interjecting, I say he does not know what he is talking about. There are tariff restrictions; he should do his homework instead of just mouthing off and wasting the time of the House. The agreement is important, because it will strengthen and protect the competitive position of New Zealand\u2019s exports\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226788632853c64faa9300461b7304366f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, name three of them!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf875127600e4086a4a6f6148762c9b3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Time and time again in the House today members have objected to a continuing barrage from members that is not rare and reasonable, is against the Standing Orders of the House, and is against the Speakers\u2019 rulings. I ask you to enforce those rulings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206edd84c79654a1ea3966565ac2f3601\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I take you straight to the Standing Order that is about answers to questions. The Minister is trying to make out that somehow there is a massive gain to be made by New Zealand trade people going over there and entering into some sort of arrangement with the Gulf States. There is no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1df281086d42f2a450fb239ac482b9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, Mr Brownlee. It is not for the Speaker to judge the quality or content of the answers. However, the member is right that if members cannot be heard, then one wonders what is the point of continuing with question time. So I ask that the Minister please continue with his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b56b3f2990cf4acf950fd3eadffbefd8\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My point of order goes to the requirements for the answering of questions. Surely, Madam Speaker, the questions have to be of value to the public\u2014the Standing Orders state they have to be in the public interest. When one knows full well there are no trade restrictions in that part of the world, at all, and when the Minister cannot stand up and outline one of them\u2014because none exists\u2014I ask what on earth the new public information is in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022172c441b0ad74fa38146356e128c002a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a debating matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227978ed1174ce47bc8f3070bae2c43825\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. During the answer and at the end of the question that was asked by the member, the continual barrage from Mr Brownlee was that there were no restrictions now. He did not say it once; he said it 10 times. Then, to make up for his ignorance, he said \u201Cname three\u201D\u2014well, there are finance, residency, and employment restrictions for a start; anybody would know that, but, of course, that buffoon does not\u2014but you did not throw him out for his outrageous behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ac8196594b04727b774fcf88e4c95cc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Neither was that a point of order. Could we please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a35d871484ce4b838feef886fd8b4863\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The member may allege that there are no restrictions, but I would invite him to talk to Fonterra, to Meat and Wool New Zealand, to our wood exporters to the Middle East, and to iron and steel exporters to the Middle East. He will find that there are restrictions on entry to the Middle East. What is more, at the specific request of those organisations, we have entered into these negotiations in order to preserve the competitive position of New Zealand exporters. The member should not speak out of such deep ignorance always.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e08cf5d4cab4eebb958b3a946952ce3\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Further to the answer the Minister has just given to the supplementary question, could he advise the House which New Zealand exporters have shown a particular interest in the negotiation of a free-trade agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fd276a3213f484aa56e483ba4c6c97a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Dairy products and meat are particularly important exports to the Gulf Cooperation Council. They are facing tariffs of approximately 5 percent. Others countries, like those in the European Union, for example\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022941d3f4eca2040a283311b19bbe9a64f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the non-existent tariffs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd14926922d42ca9e903174a691b412\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, he is still doing it. He has ignored your rulings previously. He cannot bear not to hear the sound of his own hollow voice, and I ask you to ask him to desist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dec5f6f80cb74c19b84579e9a45585dd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry\u2014would the Minister please continue. It is very difficult to hear, however. If members wish to remain with us for the rest of question time, I ask them to respect other members\u2019 right to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a02dde38d3643089883a0ea9dea42c5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Fonterra and Meat and Wool New Zealand, in particular, believe a free-trade agreement is necessary to avoid competitors gaining preferential access in this expanding market. But the free-trade agreement will also benefit the forestry, horticulture, and manufacturing industries. It will also help those emerging industries like information and communications technology, construction materials, services, medical equipment, and education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd8e45388b5749f18b2934e75a8cc995\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage\u2014Labour, Department\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229868e652bb3a42eeaf7c5b0b356e7e14\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Does she have confidence in the way the Labour Department investigates issues related to the minimum wage; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00224f56effea79e49eb8f3af20c84aef4af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f56effea79e49eb8f3af20c84aef4af\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I am confident that the department thoroughly investigates all workers\u2019 complaints it receives in relation to breaches of the minimum wage legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e860c9cd8ba4b81aef7c4da44b1f4a1\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, can she explain why the weekend media provided additional information about employment relationships, and in particular a relationship between Mrs Field and Mr Suriwan that was sufficient to launce a police inquiry but apparently insufficient for her department to investigate employment law breaches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269c16cfca9cb460caa4dde84b5aa2d58\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said to the member on a number of occasions, if there is any evidence at all that an employment relationship has been established and breaches of the minimum wage legislation or any other employment relations legislation have occurred, the department will investigate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224adb2ab9ed24f509b2cbb636782efa2\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What is this Government doing to ensure a fair minimum wage for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022789baf765eed4e1c9dabebaadbb4cda8\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has raised the minimum wage every year since it was elected to lead the Government in 1999, and it is committed to raising it to $12 an hour by 2008 if economic conditions persist. This stands in stark contrast to the last National-led Government, which over 9 years raised the minimum wage by less than $1 in total, which is not surprising given that its leader does not even believe there should be a minimum wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b896ecd0e02348a8904f0ed375df48f6\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: How is it that the Weekend Herald investigation can find out that Mrs Field signed Sunan Siriwan\u2019s immigration documents as the employer and that his visa was granted on the condition of continued employment with Mr Field, and why does the Department of Labour not think that that is sufficient for an inquiry, instead of just reading the report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221125514ba5964b3cb531c88730cfb2c5\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The inference that the Department of Labour has done nothing other than read the Ingram report is completely untrue. The member should know that, given that he has written twice to the department and provided not one single shred of evidence of an employment relationship. I have invited the member to provide evidence. The department has invited the member to do so. Why does he not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d9b7dd4712407db2d1615b37077115\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Department of Labour aware that the Weekend Herald stated: \u201CMrs Field filled out Samoan immigration employment sponsorship forms promising to be his employer\u201D, and why does that not engage the department to make its own inquiries for a change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f120a51ad2e4036abfa6a2337fc2548\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, if there is any evidence at all that leads the Department of Labour to conclude that there is an employment relationship\u2014including anything that is in the media\u2014the department will investigate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227942cd749f4a4486b7925f6336138ec2\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is the same old point of order, Madam Speaker. I cannot hear what the Minister is saying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022505354aa191e4d3f92b9c5c2f2b154fc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will have to put members on notice. Those voices I can distinguish\u2014and there are some that are terribly distinguishable in this House\u2014will be asked to leave the next time there is an interruption where a member cannot be heard. Would the Hon Ruth Dyson please start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ee044302c004b0ca4feec0b6e924d41\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I just repeat my assurance to the House that if there is any evidence at all that an employment relationship existed and that a breach of the minimum wage legislation or any other employment relations legislation occurred, as alleged, the Department of Labour has indicated it will investigate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef3cc6cd771344d7880ae5ffc457a60a\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Who does the department believe: Mr Williams, President of the Labour Party, who apparently thinks Mr Taito Phillip Field paid $20 an hour to the Thai workers, or Andrew Little, President of the New Zealand Amalgamated Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, who accepts the truth of the Ingram report that Mr Field\u2019s gross underpayment was unacceptable and they are finding a new candidate for Mangere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebc533c4e06948ba92053f0f66d79224\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Andrew Little is a highly regarded lawyer and general secretary of a major affiliate to the Labour Party, I am sure he has a lot of credibility with his views on matters of law, which was not what he was commenting on at all. This is unlike the member who has made a number of errors in his allegations about matters of law, both in the House and to the department. Nothing that Mike Williams, the President of the Labour Party, said on Eye to Eye with Willie Jackson or subsequently reported in the paper gave any inclination\u2014let alone evidence\u2014of an employment relationship. It merely referred to the fact that when the job was re-evaluated by an alternative person to Dr Ingram, the price that the person doing the work would have then been paid was $20 an hour. There was no evidence of an employment relationship and that is what there has to be for a breach of the minimum wage. The member should know the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237dfddaf6e1449cba679c74884aaeb91\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case then that the Minister completely disbelieves Mr Williams\u2014who apparently heard a fabricated story from Mr Field that he had paid $20 an hour to his Thai employees\u2014or should we believe Dr Ingram, who after hearing evidence found that Mr Field paid less than one-third of the proper rate for the job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8b0770bdda405f84ed09633fd84476\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: If the member continues to say things that are not true about the report or about quotes from the president of the Labour Party, it does not make them the truth. What the member is alleging is not factually correct. The Ingram report stated nothing about payment of less than the minimum wage; it mentioned a contract less than the market rate. Mike Williams said that at the re-evaluated price for the contract, the worker would have been paid $20. Neither Dr Ingram nor Mike Williams said anything about an employment relationship. Misrepresenting the truth is not a good way of progressing the debate, may I suggest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6d37ad3821d4851b05be47c31bb4f67\u0022\u003EUnemployment\u2014Predictions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221357efc31bd64cc6a49a818b6988c7b7\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What reports, if any, has he received in regard to the future of New Zealand\u2019s unemployment rate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u00221225c76ac5ea4b51a1540f51d741489f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221225c76ac5ea4b51a1540f51d741489f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a report that states: \u201CLabour\u2019s claim that it can bring the unemployment rate down to 3 percent is also a hoax on all the people who think if they voted Labour they would get a job.\u201D That was Bill English in 1999, when the unemployment rate was running at double the current record low rate of 3.6 percent. No doubt National also agrees with ANZ chief economist Cameron Bagrie, who told Radio New Zealand on 11 August that maybe in order to curb inflation it would be better if unemployment rises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed4a76e98051446f9de1f90060fc2664\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen where commentators have just got it wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f0eb1a8a0942808dc28892b597c9ab\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to see a report in the Timaru Herald today that corrects the misleading statements of National\u2019s Jo Goodhew. Although Labour has reduced the number of people on benefits in Timaru from 5,085 under National to 3,564 now\u2014a reduction of 1,521 clients, or 30 percent\u2014Jo Goodhew was telling her constituents the complete opposite of that. Instead of celebrating success, it is sad that all National can do is misinform people and bag New Zealand at home and abroad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e31a3cdbee7c4347983471d4ab0bb23e\u0022\u003EJustice\u2014Delays\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be0894ef5ab4412b338cabd80a05be1\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Courts: Does he agree that justice delayed is justice denied; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5504871ae4043b2a5cef71c38861664\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5504871ae4043b2a5cef71c38861664\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I do not agree with the member\u2019s assertion; it depends on who caused the delay and for what purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf6cba1bef34024827054335c27c317\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister justify his answer in the House on 29 August that this Government is \u201Cdoing heaps\u201D by increasing the number of High Court judges in Auckland and Wellington only, and only by three; and how does this help the High Court in Christchurch, where the median waiting time for trials has ballooned from 143 days to 203 days, or the High Court in Gisborne, where it has gone from 109 days to 262 days\u2014or are Christchurch and Gisborne at the bottom of the heap and not considered for his queue reduction strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c30298c367949d99b7e0c813f3969f4\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The increase in the number of High Court judges represents a 10 percent increase. While it is true that High Court cases have increased by approximately 63 percent over the last 5 years, in actual fact the waiting time has increased by only 20 days. Many courts have, in actual fact, had a decrease. The member picks and chooses her statistics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e1b0a500114a39a06b4669ae3402fa\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of the previous answer, what is the Minister doing to review and improve court processes, and how does that compare with work done previously?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282696b5c2ecb493ea5433aaa281f6b4f\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has invested substantially in courts. We have put $165 million into them. We have tidied up court buildings, we have built new courts, and we have put in an information technology structure. It is completely different from the case we inherited, where we had a paper-based system, dilapidated courts, underfunded courts, an inadequate numbers of judges, inadequate staff, and no staff training. We have made a dramatic turn-round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f6c2e2418894ff0864ab4e72075c6a2\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister expect us to believe that \u201Cthe challenges are being addressed\u201D or \u201Cstaff numbers have increased\u201D, when, in the South Island, court staff numbers have not increased by one person at all, for 3 years\u2014or is access to justice in the South Island not a priority for this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a32af77dd414562a91f25a3828e038c\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can justify it quite easily by pointing out to the member that, of the many good statistics, criminal summary cases across New Zealand have decreased by 20 percent. Secondly, if the member was watching, she would have seen that I put out a press statement recently saying that the number of staff in the Christchurch court has been increased. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022392309f985d34024886b223cb5427c08\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: How can he justify his answer in the House on 29 August that \u201CIt is very easy to go and find a court here and a court there that has an increase in its queue.\u201D, when median waiting-times for High Court jury trials in each and every South Island High Court have increased; and how can 100 percent of South Island High Courts be brushed off as \u201Ca court here and a court there\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022245876c3d0764792bfe94631ca335051\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of High Court cases outstanding in the civil jurisdiction, Rotorua has had a reduction of 55 percent, Timaru a reduction of 50 percent, Napier a reduction of 41 percent, Dunedin a reduction of 40 percent, and Palmerston North a reduction of 22 percent\u2014I could go on. There are substantial reductions in many, many registries, including in the South Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022854e1c778d8541988fd5cb2a8e95acf9\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Which statement does the Minister stand by: the one he made in the Otago Daily Times of 18 August that \u201CBetter use was being made of settlement conferences and mediations in civil matters\u201D, or his response to written question No. 11333, provided on 31 August, that \u201CMediations in Civil proceedings occur outside the Court system. The number and proportion of civil proceedings settled by way of a mediation is unknown \u2026\u201D\u2014or does he just not know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f4d16f2a2374d37a20cef002e411191\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member confuses both of the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31c4c1bc517414ea06f835f12d8c279\u0022\u003EKate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: Is mediation, then, just another euphemism for dumping cases off the court waiting list, or will cases be referred back to the lawyer, no doubt for further legal action on the basis that justice delayed is justice denied?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263be8c4f04ae4404928b03ff4e2f2293\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mediation is a very important tool in resolving issues, and very often cases are resolved in mediation without the cost of a lengthy trial, and to the satisfaction of both parties. If there is no satisfaction, the case goes to trial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e83439da7914928bcc95b11b8b87a50\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a copy of the Magna Carta.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fd6311f684c4a1b99dbc761e406cd86\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efec326779524a62b0ef790869e302d5\u0022\u003EHon David Benson-Pope\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article in today\u2019s Timaru Herald, entitled: \u201CGoodhew accused of misleading electorate\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7c433eecaa44af2bfb7d86338ff34cb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e23f0c0ed104303aacd65e982097293\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Bill of Rights 1688, which the Minister of Justice has today repudiated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de9abb1c33904704997015a99fafee34\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229af9c4caa5854a58ae15992ec7feff5e\u0022\u003EChlamydia\u2014Control\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a113d9a1066e430ab5be4f591313cf48\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Has he received any reports indicating that the chlamydia epidemic may be much more widespread than previously estimated; if so, does he intend to increase surveillance on chlamydia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002265ecdbcf44304ef0b4fdf9fe3f3c4ebf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265ecdbcf44304ef0b4fdf9fe3f3c4ebf\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have received a report on chlamydia from the Institute of Environmental Science and Research. The report states that the total number of confirmed and probable chlamydia cases has increased a lot\u2014by almost 40 percent, if one looks at reports coming in from sexual health clinics, and it has almost doubled if one looks at reports coming in from family planning clinics and student and youth health clinics. That is in the 5-year period ended December 2005, and is quite a big increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ace758910845c38cf9ca12d073f51e\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: How often does the ministry review the list of notifiable conditions, and is there any intention to make chlamydia a notifiable disease; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4bf9662fc244e18ce3b72c456293e8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know the answer to the first question. Making chlamydia notifiable, in my view, is not the most important thing to do. I think the most important thing to do is to increase surveillance, as the member suggested in her primary question. There is some indication that some of the tests may not be as good as they could be; so we have to look at that. Then we need to progress the treatment. This disease is easily treated. A person needs to take two tablets, once. In the case of sexual health centres, those tablets are available on site; no prescription is needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e312fc8680e4690bf6fc20e8b894212\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister, in line with historical and international precedents, put in place statistical capture to establish whether a link may exist between the chlamydia epidemic and the re-emergence of syphilis and other sexually transmitted diseases, and the legalisation of prostitution; if not, will he act on this suggestion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1cc0ed5893c4a0480c194a7681ca54a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member draws a series of long bows, but the short answer to his question is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d432580ab70441babb0c36aa77a6973\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Would he concede that his ministry should at least put in place routine antenatal testing for chlamydia in order to protect new-born babies against the unnecessary risk of eye and lung disease?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d041f1971d50458499f9286d8b69af24\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. I think that where an expectant mother accesses general practitioner services\u2014for example, in the first triennium\u2014chlamydia testing is close to routine. The problem is that not all pregnant women do access their general practitioner, which is why maternity services are under review, and a discussion paper is being looked at now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262f75c90da7b43b78e36867fe8ea077f\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: What action, if any, has his ministry taken, following the recommendation of the Family Planning Association at the conclusion of a screening pilot funded in part by the Ministry of Health, that routine screening for chlamydia should be made available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ff55699a3347a8b0413261ec069305\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Routine screening for chlamydia is available. The question is whether it should be opportunistic or whether it should be left to the individual. It seems to me that there is a case for moving it to opportunistic, by which I mean that a person is offered chlamydia screening, proactively, even though the person fronted up to the doctor or the sexual health clinic for some other reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8ef793d619645d8bb2ce555022437a2\u0022\u003ELocal Government\u2014Auckland Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271421cb81ae5491cad6730f458cb0f42\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues: Does she stand by her statement on the radio yesterday, regarding local government reform in Auckland, that \u201CI don\u2019t want to spend time on reorganisations. They take a huge amount of time.\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u002282844d98ba2e40218ebb75f0498a9780\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282844d98ba2e40218ebb75f0498a9780\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do, as a personal view, having been through the reorganisations in 1989. However, I also support any move that will help Auckland to become an internationally competitive world-class city, and any initiative for reform needs to come from wider Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272786925e9ce4db5b82da0fbb25514a0\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister meets with the four Auckland City mayors today, will she be saying to them: \u201CI don\u2019t want to spend time on reorganisations. They take a huge amount of time.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c96bb78b4e74b16b78951d002b132f6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister has already met with the Auckland mayors. What I will say is what I have been saying for the last 15 years that I have been in Parliament: having seen the amount of time that reorganisations of local government take, I would prefer that we had one plan and got on with it to fix Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253c87b01c60e462aa1bee7ad4c01c877\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has the Government taken to assist Auckland local government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b52f09a4d464d7fb7a9fd2330a3983a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: We are working closely with Auckland local government, business, and communities. For example, we have invested heavily in land transport. We are spending more than $7.3 billion on Auckland roads and public transport in the next 10 years\u2014over $559 million this year alone. We have embarked on New Zealand\u2019s largest State highway building programme. We have worked with Government and Auckland leaders to launch a vision aimed at achieving a common view of transport projects in Auckland, because we recognise that Auckland must be a world-class city if it is to help New Zealand to meet its prosperity potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca09472a41454e2ab6b6ef352711ad98\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that her stated position is the complete opposite of the Prime Minister\u2019s, who was reported in the New Zealand Herald as hinting that the Government will consider reducing the number of Auckland councils and as saying that stronger government at the regional level will help to push the city forward; is it not also the case that her position is completely opposite to that of the Minister of Finance, who was also reported in the New Zealand Herald as saying there is a strong indication that central government would be prepared to give the process of centralisation in Auckland a big shove; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229579d08e6e5e4fe58aa4757f5b8f3370\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, because the Prime Minister has also said that we need to keep the \u201Clocal\u201D in local government. Auckland has regional government and there is nothing that could not be done in Auckland now, within the present structures. Aucklanders should get on with it. I am really concerned at the time that is taken for structural reorganisation, when in fact what we need is action\u2014which is what this Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f01ef0ccb8f4552862820c6f0c5d3cb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa011b0867843a48d71b5df4aa4f3bc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, but there are no more supplementary questions for the member\u2019s party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d6878a4f15341f789516066b32127c1\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I would say \u201Con your butt\u201D, but I guess it is a sore point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c27a0ae1f9b46c48182df612f09189c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please just get on with the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4af09ee21ee4b64b1df12561037b8ff\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If my member\u2019s bill on local government reform in Auckland is drawn out of the ballot, will the Minister support its first reading; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230d683373d945bdaf428c9b07d73d5d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen that bill. But, given the history of the National Party\u2019s contribution to the structural reorganisation of Auckland, I would be very surprised if it were a positive move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c395d32983ec48b697c1abd034fd825f\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Are we in fact misinterpreting the Minister\u2019s comments that \u201CI don\u2019t want to spend time on reorganisations. They take a huge amount of time.\u201D, and did she actually mean that local government reform in Auckland would take a huge amount of her own time; precisely what other commitments does she have that make her such an industrious and overstretched Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf35b45b88ad44b6b1921ee9db39f616\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: One of the roles I have taken as Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues is to meet with every territorial local authority and with regional government, the business community, and the voluntary sector. Many of those organisations are calling for reorganisation, but many of them, having been through the changes in 1989, would prefer just to get on with their work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022193ace3c60a64229b2b3987a5c32d49a\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What kind of sinecure is it to be the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues, when the Prime Minister is meeting with the four Auckland mayors about the possibility of an Auckland \u201Csuper city\u201D and she is not even present or invited?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9034663de2e442b96c8ff4ddb83613e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: Having been to every one, but one, of the Auckland Mayoral Forum meetings this year, I have made it very clear to Auckland that my job is to facilitate the access of Auckland leaders to the relevant Minister. I have no problem with that. Unlike that member, who appears to be usurping the role of his leader, I have no leadership aspirations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208ba6259b7e04b718ee7c078e0b990ec\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b723f7a70efe4b1382e2f1a4aae3bf9a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00229b57e3828a154519b947fb02d0a5c7c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b57e3828a154519b947fb02d0a5c7c5\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a third time. This bill gives effect to the Labour-led Government\u2019s intent of ensuring that the terms and conditions of employment of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable employees are protected when their work is restructured. The bill also encourages businesses to utilise existing talent, and facilitates productive employment relationships that are built on good faith. This bill will protect specified vulnerable employees such as cleaners and food-catering service workers. The terms and conditions of employment of these specified employees have successively been undermined when the work they do is contracted out, passed on to another business, sold or transferred, or brought back in-house. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe bill will mark an improvement for employees who deserve to be treated better. They are the mums and dads of New Zealand who work hard to provide for their families. In the past, their terms and conditions of employment have been undermined time and time again when the price of their labour is reduced to undercut competitors in restructuring situations. This bill will provide additional protection at the time of restructuring. It does not mean that the specified employees are assured of jobs for life. There are existing mechanisms that can be used when dealing with performance issues in employment relationships. These mechanisms are based on good faith, dealing with each other fairly, and developing processes to support effective working relationships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAn employer who is concerned about the performance of an employee should inform the employee of his or her concerns and provide the employee with any support or training needed. Ultimately, an employer can dismiss a poorly performing employee if, after following a fair and reasonable process, poor performance remains an issue. The bill does not affect an employer\u2019s ability to do so. Simply allowing poor performance to continue\u2014and a business consequentially losing the contract\u2014is not effective business practice. This type of practice will not result in the kind of high-performing and productive workplace that is critical to our economic transformation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAll too often it is claimed that vulnerable employees are poor performers when, in a restructuring, a new employer increases the amount of work expected, while simultaneously decreasing the number of hours within which to do that work. This is typical of the type of cost-cutting exercise that goes on during restructuring situations. This bill will protect employees made vulnerable in restructuring situations from having to bear the brunt of this type of practice by providing for continuity of employment on existing terms and conditions\u2014including for subsequent contracting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe effective protection of specified vulnerable employees will happen only if this bill applies to all businesses. Is a cleaner any more or less vulnerable because of the size of the company he or she works for? No. In order to be effective, these protections must apply across the board. In line with the rest of New Zealand\u2019s employment law, there should be one law for all employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s policies with regard to vulnerable employees have not changed since additional protection was first introduced in 2004. This bill ensures that the original policy intent of those 2004 amendments to the Employment Relations Act is delivered on. Further, this bill aims to clarify that original policy intent. As such, it includes examples that describe how the protections will apply in practice. This practical approach will assist in the interpretation of the Act and also in determining how the provisions will apply to a range of commercial arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EA change made to the bill at the Committee stage will ensure that businesses can make informed decisions about whether to take on work that will be done by employees who are covered by the extra protections. By requiring the disclosure of labour costs to potential new employers, the level of protection provided to vulnerable employees will be improved. The vulnerable employees are less likely to be adversely affected as a result of a contractor entering into a new contract to carry out the work those employees currently do and underestimating the labour costs it will take on if the vulnerable employees choose to transfer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EPotential risks will also be minimised for businesses deciding whether to restructure, as businesses will not have to tender blind for contracts to which Subpart 1 of Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act applies. This issue was raised with me by both the Employers and Manufacturers Association (Northern) and Peter Brown of New Zealand First, and I thank Mr Brown for his constructive engagement on this and other matters relating to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis bill balances protection for those employees who are most vulnerable with rights for businesses that will be subject to additional obligations. The bill does not implement a large-scale shift in employment rights; instead, it just delivers on what Parliament intended in 2004. I conclude by thanking the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee for its diligent work on this bill. The changes recommended have made the bill clearer and more effective. I am confident this bill increases protection for vulnerable employees during restructuring situations, which is a time when their terms and conditions of employment are most at risk of being undermined. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00229b6f73eaa1cb4478a275de08f0629374\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b6f73eaa1cb4478a275de08f0629374\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is, indeed, Labour\u2019s pay-off to its union funders. We have been hearing in this House\u2014and in the last couple of hours, in fact\u2014a lot of accusations traded to and fro. Labour members seem to think that they can run this argument that National sells its policies to big business. That is the essence of their argument. Yet here today we are debating in the House real legislation that is a direct pay-off to Labour\u2019s union mates. There is a word for that: some might say it is hypocrisy, though I appreciate that that is a word I am not supposed to use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThis is a classic case of legislation for money. If members opposite are offended by that, they have only to look at their links with the unions. The Labour Party actually puts members into the House at the unions\u2019 direction. Let us go through a few of the names. Darien Fenton was put in here by the Service and Food Workers Union last year. Sue Moroney was put in by the Nurses Organisation last year. Mark Gosche was an organiser in the union movement. Rick Barker was another organiser in the Service Workers Union. Ross Robertson was in a rather strange union\u2014a freezing workers union. Paul Swain and the hapless Mr Phillip Field were put in by the union movement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EActually, Mr Field needs to be worried\u2014the people who put one in can take one out. What have we been reading in the paper today? Mr Little said his union would replace Mr Field. Did members note that it was not the Labour Party that said it would replace Mr Field; it was the Engineering, Printing, and Manufacturing Union. That is how close the relationship is. The union did not go through the pretence of saying that it thinks the Labour Party should replace Mr Field\u2014no, no, it stripped away the pretence. What Mr Little actually said, quoting him directly, was: \u201CWe will replace him.\u201D It is as simple as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party is in fact the trade union arm in Parliament. That is why we get legislation that represents solely the interests of trade unions. It is worth reflecting on the prayer we say in the House, because that prayer says we should act without fear nor favour for anyone, and for the benefit of all New Zealanders. Is this bill for the benefit of all New Zealanders? The answer is absolutely not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI did listen to the previous speaker, the Minister of Labour\u2014although I would have to say it was pretty boring\u2014and the bill, apart from being just a straight pay-off, is also economically bankrupt. I want to take the House through that proposition. The Minister of Labour, in essence, says that we cannot have productivity gains in this industry, because people have to be offered the same terms and conditions. She also said that it has been a terrible thing that people have been expected to clean more premises more quickly and more efficiently. We have to ask ourselves whether this is the same Minister and the same Government that keep talking about increasing productivity. Does she understand what productivity is actually about? Productivity is about doing more work in the same time. I know that Mr Assistant Speaker will understand this, because it is an interest of his. It is not a question of slave wage conditions or anything like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIncreases in productivity are about three fundamental things. The first is extra capital going into the business, which means more sophisticated, more advanced equipment. It means better management practices. In truth, in many cases it will be clear from an examination of a work practice or a worksite that if workers did it a different way, they would be able to do maybe 30 percent more work. Usually the people best able to see that are new players in the business, because that is where the innovative ideas and imagination come from. So productivity increases are also about more effective management techniques. Finally, the third component to that is a more highly skilled workforce. That again means more skills and more efficiency\u2014doing more work in the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIf we say that it is a terrible thing that people are required to do more work in the same time, it is kind of like saying: \u201CLet\u2019s go back to the pick and shovel to build our roads and let\u2019s see how long that will take.\u201D It is remarkable. I look around Auckland and I acknowledge that quite a few roads are being built. There are actually not a lot of people doing that. Some of the reasons why are more machinery and more advanced management systems. If we look at the old photographs, we see that worksites are completely covered with people and the work probably took longer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s approach to this is fundamentally flawed because it is standing in the way of innovation. It is forcing new firms to take on people on the same terms, same conditions, and same work practices as previously. That is what \u201Cconditions\u201D actually means\u2014the same work practices as previously. One cannot get more cleaning done, as in this instance, if that is the approach. During the submission period a number of submitters complained about the fact that they now had to clean more rooms and so forth than previously. They went back over 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, and so forth. I say to those submitters\u2014and I said it at the time\u2014in truth, work changes. We cannot expect to do today what we did 20 years ago. We cannot expect to have the same work practices. That is exactly what the reforms of the last 20 years were all about. It was all about getting a more efficient, faster-growing economy with higher productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI now want to turn to the issue of the smaller employer, and I am sure that other members will see this point. National, through Mr David Bennett, put forward an amendment to this provision, and we expected that New Zealand First would vote for it, because it always says that it is the friend of small business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d26cfa53083146d18a2aa16d743bc1d8\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re a lackey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022283879c04842484db4c4129981704e69\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there it is. My colleague speaks the truth of this today. The leadership of that party are showing themselves to be lackeys. That is not a good space for New Zealand First to be in, and it does not want to stay there if its members want to be back here in 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ELabour and New Zealand First have denied the opportunity for small businesses with 10 employees or fewer to provide employment to their families by tendering for work. It is completely impractical for a small employer, whose team is intended to do the work, to take on all of the staff of the previous team. If small employers are loaded up with redundancy costs they are cut out from having the ability even to tender for the work. That is fundamentally flawed. It is obviously true across the board, but it is particularly true of small business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ENational will be voting against this bill. We think it is economically flawed, for the reasons I have indicated. More seriously, though, we are fundamentally opposed to legislation that is a naked pay-off to special interests. This Parliament is not supposed to be under the control of outside interests, but that looks to be exactly the case in this situation. For that reason, the bill is fundamentally wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffd6ab17ff744e86854b61b64c072f8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffd6ab17ff744e86854b61b64c072f8a\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E That last part of Wayne Mapp\u2019s speech was quite astounding. What he was actually saying was that people on this side of the House are guilty of caring\u2014of listening to the lowest paid, most vulnerable workers in the New Zealand. The people who clean Dr Wayne Mapp\u2019s office every night, and the people who feed him in Bellamy\u2019s every day, are the privileged workforce of New Zealand because they get to do that for him. The fact is that their employer might change tomorrow\u2014a new employer might come in the next day\u2014and, if this law is not passed, those people could not be guaranteed the same wages and conditions for doing the exact same job. It does not seem to strike Dr Mapp and his colleagues that it is unfair for that to happen just because an employer has changed. Well, we on this side of the House, and all the parties who support this legislation, believe that the arguments about productivity that Dr Mapp rehearsed are utter nonsense. It was years and years ago when those things were done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI explained in my second reading speech about the Auckland Hospital situation, where there was one cleaner per ward. The ratio was dropped so that there was one cleaner per two wards, then conditions dropped further so that the cleaners did not even get a whole day to do their work in. What better productivity gain could be expected, without getting to the situation where the hospital was unsafe? Would cleaners have to keep on giving blood before the members opposite were satisfied? The next stage in the regime\u2014which is of a kind that National wholeheartedly supports\u2014after dropping the number of workers cleaning the hospital, then dropping the number of hours they could take to clean it, was to pay the cleaners even less. They now work for roughly the same amount of take-home pay as they did in 1990, because their penal rates have gone, their overtime rates have gone, and their allowances, which actually built up their earnings, have gone. As a result, even though they have had hourly wage rate increases through the last 15 years, many of them are still earning the same as they did in 1990. They are the parents of the future. They are the M\u0101ori, Pacific, and Asian workforce who have come to this country\u2014or, in the case of M\u0101ori, who have been here for ever\u2014and actually make our economy survive. But National\u2019s recipe for them is to punish them some more\u2014to not pass this law, to not protect their rights as workers. National would allow those multinational companies\u2014and there are about four or five of them; all are multinational\u2014to screw those workers harder. That is National\u2019s recipe, which we reject. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003ELabour says that if a worker turns up to work tomorrow and his or her boss has changed because the contract has changed, that worker should not lose money or conditions. If workers are working hard and doing the job, why should they not get the same pay tomorrow as they do today, when they are doing exactly the same work and to the same standard? If they are not doing the job, they can be disciplined, and the workforce can be changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EBut this is not the case. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee heard from workers who had been at Wellington Hospital for something like 15 or 16 years, and they had been through six different employers. Many of those employers were absolutely hopeless at doing the job. Their management was so bad that the hospital kept flicking them out. But the workers remained there, stock standard, every year. The promise of better management techniques and greater productivity was a lie told to those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWe do not want a country where our most vulnerable, most hard-working, and most reliable people are actually punished under law, as National would have it. That is why I am extremely proud to be part of this Government, and to repay those people who keep us healthy in hospital, who look after us when we are old, and who clean our schools so that our children have clean schoolrooms. They certainly require a payback from this Government for the work they do, and they are getting it with this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002281e340c3ac0740df80f1c8bf4d4e3db0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281e340c3ac0740df80f1c8bf4d4e3db0\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak about the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, and I would like it to be noted that this is the 15th amendment this Government has had to put through on the Employment Relations Act which was rushed through in the year 2000. The Government was keen to rush that measure through at that time, but, from talking to businesses in the uproar that happened, I know that businesses spoke loudly and said, no, they could not have it go through. They said it would be detrimental to businesses, detrimental to productivity, and detrimental to what they were trying to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EFor once, Labour actually backed off, because the polls started to go down and, as we know, that is completely and utterly how Labour is run. Labour is not run on the basis of principle or on what it is trying to achieve; it is run purely on what the polls say that day. So Labour backed off, and said that it would not put this measure through. But now here it is a few years later, deciding that it will not listen to businesses. Labour does not particularly care about productivity, so it is trying to put this bill through now, even after hearing time and time again of the effects it could have on small businesses, in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI suppose this is an opportunity for me to speak on behalf of my colleague David Bennett, who tried to put through an amendment that would have helped 2,300 cleaning businesses. We have been hearing about vulnerable workers\u2014and no one denies them their rights\u2014but how about vulnerable businesses? How about those people who get up on a daily basis and struggle? How about the family-owned businesses\u2014the very cleaners whom we were just hearing about\u2014who have taken a bit of a risk and a gamble, and who have taken on the contract themselves? They are not big businesses; they are not making a lot of money. But they are working for themselves and their families, and they are going out there every night, just as the other cleaners are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ENo one denies those people the opportunity to try to grow their business a little, and perhaps to take on another contract. Yet under this legislation they will have to employ the workers from the previous contract. It is as simple as that. So a family business that wishes to employ its family members will not be able to employ them\u2014and that is just wrong. During the select committee process the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee certainly heard from cleaners, and we certainly heard from people who work for health boards, as Mark Gosche, the previous speaker, said. No one in that room was without sympathy for what those employees had been through, with six different employers and their working conditions being changed. We were pretty keen to see those wrongs put right. But when a big stick is taken to fix a very narrow problem, that affects, detrimentally, many other businesses. How can that be good for New Zealand? How can that be good for the people whom we are telling to get out there and give things a go? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWhy would cleaners in one of those businesses actually take a bit of a gamble and put in for a contract themselves? Why would people get a bit gutsy and think of actually putting themselves out there, trying to do something, taking a risk, and taking the next step, when all that will happen is that they will be kicked down by this legislation and this Government? This Government tells people there is no point in their doing that, because they will not to be able to employ whom they want, anyway. They will not be able to run their business in the way that they wish to, because the Government is Big Brother\u2014Big Sister\u2014and it knows what is best for them. This legislation will not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI think we need to look back at the amendments to the principal Act and at what has happened since 2000, when it was passed. The effect of the Holidays Act has been to have businesses shaking in their boots. A survey showed that 74 percent of them said the Holidays Act has drastically increased their costs. Yet here we go, putting through another amendment that will just make the situation worse for them. The Otago District Health Board, for example, said it had a $520,000 increase in wages and employment costs last year. That $520,000 did not go directly to the patients, who needed it. It did not even go into the workers\u2019 pockets, necessarily. It merely went into the bureaucracy of running the health board and the provisions of the Holidays Act. Air New Zealand is another example. It said it had to put another $17 million into its costs, with no hint of productivity increases at all. The Meat Industry Association said that 39 percent increases in sick leave and $17 million more on the bottom line mean the industry cannot employ more people, cannot increase wages, and cannot support the very workers whom this Government goes on about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EHow can this Government talk about productivity, when there has been a 550 percent increase in lost workdays in the last 12 months? Over 32,000 person-days of work have been lost because of industrial action. How is that an increase in productivity? I ask the Labour Government how that is good for New Zealand. How are we looking ahead and joining people together to negotiate and come up with answers that work in the best interests of New Zealand? That is the only way we can start to grow. It is the only way we can increase productivity and see New Zealand take the next step, which it can do, because it has the guts and the right people to do so. It is only mindless legislation that currently holds New Zealand back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EHow can we increase productivity? We can do that by joining people together, instead of constantly segregating them under the legislation that we enact. We can say to employers and employees that they both have something invested in seeing a business go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfbb9fea52dd4d6bb4aa4e6d8a06b9b7\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: A win-win.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5fb3e2a28a54648be25b590c257773b\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is a win-win for everyone. If productivity grows, wages go up and there are more holidays. We cross over. But, instead, the Government is pitting one against the other. It is making it nigh to impossible for small businesses to get ahead and accomplish what they want to do for the workers out there. It constantly says to them, through legislation like this, that it will make their work more and more difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EAnother piece of legislation that we are looking at, at the moment, covers the youth minimum wage. There is a strong argument for increasing it, when we hear about youth workers, one aged 18 and the other aged 17, who stand next to each other while working together in fast-food chains, doing the same work, yet being paid different minimum wages. I sat there and, by crikey, my own head was nodding\u2014I heard the argument from the young people, and it was a strong one. Then I sat back and started to think about the issue. I thought about who would be most affected by increasing the minimum wage. Yet again, it would be our small businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EYet again, it would be the mechanic who works in Timaru, who does not have a huge workforce and does not make a lot of profit, and who takes on a couple of 16-year-olds from the local school. Quite frankly, they do not help productivity; they do not make him any money. But he wants to employ them for the sake of his community and because he wants to help out the kids at school by giving them a part-time job. So he does pay the minimum wage. But, actually, that works for everyone. The kids are happy about it because they get the chance to find out whether they like the work and want to be a mechanic. At the end of it, there is a good chance that they will get an apprenticeship. The mechanic says he will no longer be able to employ them, because it is just too hard for him to do so. He says he keeps being hit, time and time again, with added costs, with added bureaucracy, and with compliance issues that he just cannot cope with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ELet me take the example of the hairdresser down the road, who takes on a couple of girls after school\u2014and they usually are girls, just as mechanics are usually boys\u2014and on a Saturday morning. During the process of looking at this bill, the hairdresser rang and said she could not continue to employ those girls. She does not make any money from them, and she is not going home every week with wads of cash in her pocket. Things are getting harder and harder for her, and she is not able to keep them on. So we can look at those examples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIs there room for some of these changes in big business? Yes, but do we constantly have to legislate and bang down on the small businesses that, without a doubt, are the backbone of our country? We are constantly making it too difficult for those people to achieve what we need them to achieve in order to see New Zealand continue to be the absolutely fantastic country that it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI hope that in some respects this is it. I accept we ain\u2019t got the numbers to see this bill not go through the House today, and that Labour has done its work with New Zealand First and has that party on board. But I just ask the Government to stop\u201415 amendments is enough. I ask it to let small-business people have a go at getting on with what they do\u2014which is running their businesses\u2014and to stop changing stuff and making things more difficult for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u002219f900fad42244318a3d6e41f7e8792b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219f900fad42244318a3d6e41f7e8792b\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I say to the member who has just resumed her seat, Paula Bennett, that if she did make any reference to the Employment Relations Amendment Bill at all, I missed it completely. She did not know what she was talking about. She sat on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and listened to submissions, yet she does not have a darn clue what the bill is all about. She was talking about the Holidays Act, Air New Zealand, and goodness knows what else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThis bill is about vulnerable workers\u2014people who are on the bottom rung of society. They need some help\u2014legislative help. For the member\u2019s enlightenment, the Government passed the bulk of the legislation that helps vulnerable workers 2 or 3 years ago. The Minister recognised and acknowledged that. This bill is but to close a loophole\u2014and the member did not even understand that. This bill relates to the Gibbs and others v Crest Commercial Cleaning Ltd case in Dunedin, but I will not go into that now, because I do not have enough time. But I urge the member to read a little about what she is meant to be talking about, because she is not only letting herself down but also letting the National Party down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThree important aspects of this bill went through at the Committee stage, and they all went through after a strong effort was made by my party, New Zealand First. The first one is that we put the whole thing up for review within 3 years, and the Minister of Labour, Ruth Dyson, and the Labour Government agreed. So if the legislation is wrong and does not deliver what it is meant to deliver, it can be relooked at and restructured accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe second aspect is far more important. The bill states that there will be full disclosure. I should explain that this bill deals with a contract that has expired and is then up for tender. People tendering for that job will be obliged to take on the workforce of the initial contractor, but when they submit their tender, they will have access to somewhat detailed information. They will not know every individual\u2019s wages and what have you, but they will know the total bill. So they will not be tendering blind, and that is fair. Why is it fair? It is because the employees who retain their jobs will retain their conditions. They worked darned hard to get those conditions at a reasonable level, and it is not fair, by shifting them from one contractor to another contractor, that they lose the lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe have heard many examples even tonight, and certainly we heard them in the Committee stage of this bill and at the select committee, of cleaners\u2014who, principally, are the people we are talking about\u2014being told they could keep their jobs, but they would have to clean more rooms, and their hourly rates would go down, as well. New Zealand First said we had a low-wage society as it was, and we asked what we would be doing for New Zealand society if we kept knocking the guts out of the lowest-paid workers. So we accepted the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 54, which amends the legislation to provide for full disclosure. Had the Government not come up with that, there was a question mark over whether we would have supported the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EAnother Supplementary Order Paper, in my name, came as a result of a National Party representation to me. I spoke to the Minister on behalf of the National Party. Those members did not speak to the Minister directly; they came to me. They asked what would happen if the disclosed information changed\u2014for example, if the employer increased or doubled the pay after the information had been disclosed. Those members asked whether that would be fair. I said to Mark Blumsky that he might have a point, but I read the bill again, and I said I did not think that situation could occur. I asked the Minister whether that was a realistic possibility. She agreed with me; she could not see how that situation would occur. But we both thought there could be some devious employers out there who, on thinking they would not retain their contract, might double the wages of the staff just to make it absolutely difficult. So I produced Supplementary Order Paper 55 in response to the concern expressed to me by Mark Blumsky along those lines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EOne would think that the National Party would have supported that Supplementary Order Paper. Even if it did not support anything else, one would think that it would support a Supplementary Order Paper that came about from an idea of one of its own members. But no, it did not. However, the Supplementary Order Paper got through and it amended the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EAs the Minister divulged tonight, she received a representation from members of the northern division of the Employers and Manufacturers Association about introducing a Supplementary Order Paper that would provide for disclosure. I thought those were the guys whom the National Party thought it supported. But National members voted against that Supplementary Order Paper. As I say, that amendment was very important to New Zealand First. We would not have given our support to this bill had that amendment not been in it. But it is in the bill; thus, we are supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI will spend the last few minutes I have on the National Party\u2019s amendment. Those members wanted to exclude small employers from this legislation. How dumb can they get? That would have meant that the small employers, who employ 10 or fewer employees, would be excluded, and if their contract was up for tender, their employees would not go along to the new employer. If they worked for a big employer, they would go over, but if they worked for a small employer, they would not count. They would lose their work\u2014they would lose everything. They would have no protection, whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First members are very straightforward people. We said that everything had to be obvious, it had to be fair, and it had to be in the long-term interests of the people we wanted to protect. It is a sad commentary on New Zealand that vulnerable workers need some protection in this society. They cannot fight competitive market forces; they need to be protected by some legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThis bill closes the loophole in the earlier legislation. It should have been done 2 or 3 years ago, when the Employment Relations Act first came in. For that reason, and for reasons of fairness, New Zealand First will support this bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6b24e9f6abb45098f4365a10564a09a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6b24e9f6abb45098f4365a10564a09a\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou te Whare. A couple of months back, on International Justice for Cleaners Day, I asked the Deputy Prime Minister what level of wage and salary increase he would recommend for cleaners, including those who clean our offices here in Parliament. I did not get an answer. I would like to think that if I were to ask that same question again today, I would get an answer. Mind you, even if Dr Cullen does not want to talk about the low wages that thousands of cleaners, food workers, laundry workers, and caretakers earn in Aotearoa, at least this bill will do something to enhance their job security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis bill means that every now and then, regardless of the yelling and screaming in this House\u2014and the posturing, pontificating, and the downright bad manners\u2014we can do a decent day\u2019s work. We can actually make a difference. I say that because a decent day\u2019s work is a luxury when we consider some of the terms and conditions many Kiwi workers are faced with. Our cleaners here, for example, are on low wages, and they work really hard, spend lots of time away from home, and work long and difficult hours. There are often safety issues, too, especially for women who are working in a large building\u2014sometimes working alone\u2014because often no buses are running when they finish work, so they have to walk home. I know that, because our cleaners are just leaving here when I come to work, early in the morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe attack on a Kelston Primary School cleaner a couple of months ago also shows just how vulnerable cleaners working at night, often without security, can be. Not only are the working conditions of cleaners poor but they are paid as little as $10.95 an hour and get little recognition for their work. If that is not bad enough, they also suffer from a high rate of chemical-induced skin disorders. So doing something to help cleaners\u2019 job security is something to be proud of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI recall that just over a year ago, while we were hot on the election trail, cleaners working for Spotless Services at Kait\u0101ia Hospital went on strike over the poor conditions they faced at Kait\u0101ia Hospital, Bay of Islands Hospital, and Whangarei Hospital. Their actions brought to the attention of the nation the plight of our most vulnerable workers, and their strike brought the media flocking to Kait\u0101ia. They spotlighted the issues of pay poverty, penal rates, and overtime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is happy to support any efforts to protect the rights of vulnerable workers, as we now do in our support for this bill. The bill clarifies the protections for workers affected by the sale or transfer of a business, or the contracting out of their work. This bill will safeguard terms, conditions, and continuity of employment for vulnerable workers like cleaners. Without that protection, people working for contract companies can lose their jobs through successive contracting. But with this bill in place vulnerable workers will be allowed to transfer their employment terms and conditions to the person who takes over that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI wanted to go back to the situation of the cleaners today, because it was really the cleaners, and particularly the decision of the Employment Court in Gibbs and others v Crest Commercial Cleaning Ltd, that showed up the flaws in the legislation\u2014that vulnerable employees have less protection than ordinary employees. The cleaners\u2019 Clean Start industrial campaign has also helped keep the heat on this issue. They have shown us how hard it is for vulnerable workers to raise their concerns about workloads, pay, and conditions, and do all this while holding down several jobs at shamefully low pay in order to make ends meet. But I also want to highlight the wider group of vulnerable workers\u2014food workers, laundry workers, caretakers, and cleaners\u2014who are contracted in, contracted out, and often contracted off. New Zealand Council of Trade Unions research shows that contracting and casual work often result in a deterioration of health and safety for workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis bill comes about because the first bill suffered from too much haste to achieve a bad result. Although it was clear that the original Employment Relations Law Reform Bill was intended to cover outsourcing and contracts, changes made at the select committee meant that it did not. So, as the court said in the Crest Commercial Cleaning case: \u201CThe extent to which a court can divine and apply Parliament\u2019s true intended meaning to ill-expressed legislation is at the heart of the case.\u201D The rest is history. Without this bill there are no obligations on new contract companies to offer employment or similar terms and conditions as workers had with the outgoing company. How does that translate on the factory floor? Well, it means regular job losses, the loss of terms and conditions, a reduction in wages and hours, increased workloads, and the loss of entitlements, as demonstrated in discrimination against unionists and the undermining of collective bargaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EDuring the course of this bill we in the M\u0101ori Party have done our best to raise scenarios in the House of construction workers in Wellington, supermarket workers in Palmerston North, and cleaners in Kait\u0101ia. Far, far too many of those people are M\u0101ori, Pasifika, or other migrants. Why are we not surprised that poorly drafted legislation often makes already vulnerable workers even more vulnerable? I quote again the findings of the court in the Crest case: \u201CEvery week these situations are occurring, and every week workers continue to lose their employment, their hours, their service based entitlements, their wage rates.\u201D So having had Parliament declare them the most vulnerable of all workers, these cleaners have ended up with the least legal protection of any workers in New Zealand. In the meantime this cycle of employment insecurity and oppression continues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ENext week we will celebrate the anniversary of the last apartheid test played in this country between the All Blacks and the Springboks. On that same day we will also commemorate the 30th anniversary of the death of Steve Biko, a black activist from Azania who was beaten to death by the South African police while being held in detention. On the 20th anniversary of his death, President Nelson Mandela said: \u201CIt is the dictate of history to bring to the fore the kind of leaders who seize the moment, and who cohere the wishes and aspirations of the oppressed.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI send my warmest congratulations and solidarity to all those vulnerable workers who have stood on the picket line, signed petitions, and taken their cases to court, in order to put an end to exploitation and oppression. With this bill we also pay our tributes to those cleaners, those brickies, and those laundry workers who have come to the fore, seized the moment, and taken the risks, knowing that the driving thrust of their work will be to overcome oppression. It is because of them that the M\u0101ori Party stands today in support of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022 data-id=\u00221f8cb109145e4521b41bf7d1d81b3196\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f8cb109145e4521b41bf7d1d81b3196\u0022\u003EDIANNE YATES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to and support the third reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, which is otherwise known as the \u201CVulnerable Workers Bill\u201D. I thank the previous speaker, Hone Harawira, for his support of the bill, as well. As he has rightly said, it is about job security for the most vulnerable workers in this country. They are the people, as he said, who work while many of us sleep, and who are doing the jobs that many of us do not want to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EMany of those people are new New Zealanders who are trying to forge a new life for their families and give their kids a chance in New Zealand. They are working extremely hard, as we know. They are laundry workers\u2014people from the Service and Food Workers Union, mostly\u2014people working in the aged-care sector, caretakers, and a whole range of people. Those people are working very, very hard, and they do a lot to keep the wheels of this country moving and growing, so I was absolutely surprised to hear some of the derogatory speeches from the Opposition side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EI wish to commend this bill, and say that it is long overdue\u2014its issues have been around for some time. I am really pleased that the bill is now at its third reading stage, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002272be26f5725b443c875215674f0d94cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272be26f5725b443c875215674f0d94cb\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. Helen Clark\u2019s achievement will be measured by a number of things in her career. Once the dust has settled on the current m\u00EAl\u00E9e over the pledge card and the immigration rorts, the Prime Minister\u2019s achievement will be measured against the achievements of her Government and its stated goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adbab78778a14c9a8e49ed0bbadc28b0\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, bring it on. Against your achievements in the 1990s! Nil!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234bb6651ea3445feabe749d6139e88f5\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Bring it on! I point out, for the benefit of Mr Cosgrove, that in 1995 Helen Clark said in an address at the New Zealand Trade Centre: \u201CIn my lifetime our living standards have slipped from the third highest in the world to 25th today. We are in danger of slipping into the next range of nations like Estonia and Latvia in the sub-OECD grouping, which have never reached European living standards.\u201D That is what the Prime Minister said in 1995 and, today, what are we doing? We are bringing in the 15th amendment to the Employment Relations Act. That is what we are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EShe went on to say in that speech: \u201CWe\u2019ve had those living standards, but we are losing them, and we will continue to unless we can keep our talent at home and create the conditions for rapid growth of new industries.\u201D I want to repeat that, because the key point lies at the heart of the goals of this Government. Helen Clark said: \u201CWe\u2019ve had those living standards, but we are losing them, and we will continue to unless we can keep our talent at home and create the conditions for rapid growth of new industries.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESix years later, echoing this point, Michael Cullen made a statement in the 2001 Budget Speech. Dr Cullen said: \u201CWe need to set ourselves a goal of being back in the top half of the developed world in terms of per capita GDP\u2014a position we have not occupied since 1970.\u201D Dr Cullen figured\u2014quite correctly, I would say\u2014that economic growth was the key to raising the living standards for every man, woman, and child in this country, and that includes the vulnerable workers we are talking about in this debate tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe problem is that economic growth comes from creating an economic framework, a framework that encourages entrepreneurs and risktakers to start, grow, and continue to grow, businesses. Guess what! It is those entrepreneurs, those risktakers in this country, who actually create jobs and keep people in employment. They actually deliver wages to vulnerable workers. Creating economic growth, improving everybody\u2019s lot, is not helped by putting roadblocks in the way of successful and profitable businesses. It is definitely not helped by putting roadblocks in the way of businesses that are struggling to be successful and that are not profitable. [Interruption] I would have thought that Mr Peter Brown, who has been an owner of small businesses, would understand and would understand correctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESo when we look at the goal of getting to the top half of the OECD, what can we say? Well, after 6 long years, we are no closer. This country has not achieved the goals set out by Dr Cullen in that Budget speech early in 2001. If anything, we are worse off. Growth is in decline. In the last year we have seen quarters with growth of 0.1 of a percent and negative 0.1 of a percent. How will that help vulnerable workers get their wages up? It will not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EInterest rates are on the rise. We have seen five interest rate rises in the last few years. The difference between the New Zealand and Australian rates has increased by 7 percent over the last 6 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b453a421211642e2a61824721e22342f\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s talk about unemployment. Oh, you don\u2019t want to do that, do you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb3c09ba43d4f3f8f3375bda486cf94\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Inflation is above the Reserve Bank target range, and I say to Mr Cosgrove that I cannot see how inflation of 4 percent is going to help vulnerable workers right now. Our balance of payments deficit is the worst in decades. More and more hard-working Kiwis are choosing overseas as an alternative place to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257b69a19012043509ac54574afa1c47a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Tell me about unemployment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221996cf9c8cb4ccfb0e00471d08ebaa3\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is not about unemployment. Unemployment right now is at an excellent level, thanks to jobs created by employers. The gentleman across the floor has the cheek to think that the employment position is created by Governments. Let me tell members that the rise in employment in this country is created by small-business people who go out day after day, put their money on the line, take mortgages on their property, invest money in their businesses, and create jobs. That is what they do. Employment is not created by Governments, and the member should understand that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EAfter 6 long years, the Government has dampened down its dreams for this nation. As for New Zealand being in the top half of the OECD, that dream has gone out the window. The goal of being in the top half of the OECD is not even talked about now. The message now is \u201Ceconomic transformation\u201D. The problem I have is this: what does economic transformation mean? Is it about going forward? Is it about growth? No, it is not about getting to a growth position, because the Government has given up on that. I am concerned that economic transformation is actually taking us backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThere is a problem: if the Government does not have a goal, and if the Government has stopped trying to get us into the top half of the OECD, where are we going? If we aim at nothing\u2014guess what\u2014we will be successful every damn time. Here is a quote from last year\u2019s Speech from the Throne: \u201CMy government\u2019s overall objective for the next three years is to continue New Zealand\u2019s transformation to a dynamic, knowledge-based economy and society, \u2026 In the last six years my government has sought to lay the foundations for this transformation.\u201D My problem is this: the Prime Minister wishes to continue transformation of the economy, but the goal of transformation to the top half of the OECD has gone out the window. Transformation to a Third World backwater is the direction we are closing in on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThis bill, the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, typifies the policy framework at the crux of this Government. This new bill is the type of legislation designed to transform our economy, but I suggest that its particular policy will not add one iota of growth to this economy. How will this bill make it easier for employers to employ more employees? How will it encourage entrepreneurs to merge and sell businesses? Sometimes those entrepreneurs\u2019 businesses do not actually work, and they get into a position where they have to look at alternatives, like merging businesses and taking on other companies. I can tell members that legislation like this will make it extremely difficult for those businesses to go forward. In fact, what could happen is that we could get situations where businesses are in trouble and they just end up closing down, because things are too hard. They will not even look at merging with other businesses. I ask how this legislation will encourage risktakers and I certainly ask how it will add growth to our economy. It will do neither of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to protect the rights of certain categories of employees in restructuring situations. But it goes far wider: Subpart 2\u2014which originally included section 69P\u2014relates to other employees. Speaking on the National side of the House, I have some sympathy for vulnerable workers. If the bill kept its original aim, and focused on where it started\u2014on cleaners and catering staff\u2014I would be happy with that. But I had a major problem with the way the bill encompassed the entire workforce, in Subpart 2. Section 69P had stated: \u201CThe object of this subpart is to provide protection to employees to whom subpart 1 does not apply if, as a result of a restructuring, their work is to be performed by or on behalf of another person and, to this end, to require their employment agreements to contain employee protection provisions relating to negotiations between the employer and the other person about the transfer of affected employees to the other person.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn a nutshell, the bill places severe restrictions on any business looking to buy other businesses, to merge businesses, or to combine operations. It creates a situation where rather than protect employees, it could in fact mean that combinations do not occur, businesses close, and employees lose their jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThat is why the National Party will not be supporting this bill. Rather, we support business in this country; we support opportunities to create a policy platform to take this country forward, to push us forward, and to help vulnerable workers by growing the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u002273c6f00c45534d198f7c6def4465f296\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c6f00c45534d198f7c6def4465f296\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E I must take my hat off to the wisdom of my three National Party colleagues who spoke on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. They were very aptly able to grasp the nettle and identify the problems that the bill has. Wayne Mapp was very, very good and Paula Bennett spoke from the heart on behalf of small business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhen members look at the bill before us for its third reading\u2014a bill that National is opposed to\u2014they can feel sorry for people who are exploited and there are those people out there. However, when we look into the devil in the detail of this bill, we see that it also severely beats up a number of those 300,000 small businesses. Those businesses, which are family-operated and mainly owner-operated, do not have the huge capability that is perceived in the minds of members on the other side of the House to throw unwanted, discarded people on to the scrap heap. There are also first-time business entrepreneurs who wish to start out, to buy a plant, and to go in for a contract. They will be turned off by this legislation. I am afraid that in the intent of trying to sort out an issue that does exist, this legislation has unfortunately gone to the extreme and is a total disincentive and beats up on small business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221325350add3949f39d305a2c70321d0e\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How can small businesses survive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254d9aca4fdd94769965089a113ce448f\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING\u003C/span\u003E: It will be remarkably difficult. I do not know how they will survive. In an area that I am probably more familiar with\u2014the shearing industry\u2014the legislation just totally defies logic. In fact, it cast my mind back to what happened across the Ditch in 1985. The unions were trying to justify their existence and they took to court an issue over the wide comb versus narrow comb affair. The situation was very similar to what we are seeing in the House at the moment, where the unions are asking to be paid back for the favours they have given to the Labour Party. They have called in a due on the basis of getting their favours back\u2014\u201CYou support us and we will support you.\u201D So the Employment Relations Amendment Bill is really the \u201CEmployment and Relationship between the Labour Party and the Unions Amendment Bill\u201D\u2014a bill that does nothing to promote enterprise and productivity in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIt is with great pride that members on the Opposition side of the House speak up on behalf of businesses medium and small\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238a95b375f564db3acea4d4285ecb83f\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: And workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3907b78b2ce4f768c0e907ee4c978a8\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and workers, for that matter. One thing we want to make very clear is that on this side of the House we have a vision. We want to see this country go forward, prosper, and grow enterprise. I am a great believer in that. I want my children to succeed and I want my grandchildren to succeed. I want to see the people I pick up at 6 or 7 o\u2019clock in the morning, when I go shearing, be empowered as well. I do not see that this legislation sends the right message\u2014in actual fact, it does the absolute opposite. We have a generation of young people out there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfab44c624b44992a04fdf8aceba006e\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: It would help if you read it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d699e53936804868ab9920ae2c4b10d5\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I say to New Zealand First\u2014who are having difficulty making a decision to commit to employment. I was reading a publication stating that Generation Y today needs leadership. If the Government does not carry on beating up on small business, it will get a bit of leadership. Members on the Government side need to pull their heads out of their laps and start to think about what will take this country forward. [Interruption] The only vulnerable workers we have in this country at this time are those people who are prepared to get off their backsides, work hard, pay taxes, and improve themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210dc5a8f40a54875a1641a49e361c403\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What do they do with taxpayers\u2019 money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b1d9d4ae0a344f09989bc6d0ca633bf\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING\u003C/span\u003E: They keep spending it. I ask members to think about the wide comb versus narrow comb affair. The unions argued that narrow combs should be used because wide combs gave an advantage to stronger men. What a lot of nonsense that was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThis bill is a lot of nonsense. It goes far too far. It has been 15 ways to screw a nation. The employment relations legislation was set over here originally, but it has been systematically moved to a stage where it has become totally clear that we will regulate, regulate, and suffocate this nation\u2019s economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EBut National has a vision. It will take this nation forward and inspire its younger generation to cultivate those wonderful qualities of industriousness and entrepreneurship that we have heard about from speakers on the Opposition side of the House. We will be very proud of the nation. We all want a nation that people who have left already will want to come back to, to enjoy the beautiful standard of living\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229882ffb846e14d279012cc39dbe50d62\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Where is your policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e03124664364943a452272fc2a4ac2e\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING\u003C/span\u003E: It is a vision at the moment. This bill is a problem and a very bitter pill we have to swallow. It is so unpalatable and is totally unjustified. One of the things that sticks in my throat is that although the bill claimed originally to look after what the Government calls \u201Cworkers who could be abused\u201D, in effect the bill beats up on those 300,000 small businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIf one stifles enterprise, one stifles vision. National has a vision of where we want this nation to go, but it is certainly not built around this ridiculous Employment Relations Amendment Bill, which is just hand holding between the unions\u2014paying back deals for elections. I have just about run out of words to describe to members opposite just how pathetic they are. I articulate that National has great satisfaction in speaking up for small business, family business, first-time business operators, and owner-operators. I would hope that after the next election, when National is in Government, we can provide inspiration and a vision for the young people of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00221d3748e2585344de9546713bb453bede\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d3748e2585344de9546713bb453bede\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E The Employment Relations Amendment Bill is very important legislation. As my colleague Paula Bennett said in her address, this bill is the 15th amendment to this legislation. When the House debated the previous amendment to the legislation, we asked the Government why it could not get it right. Yet here we are again, debating a bill that hits those people who make investments in our community\u2014the business people. They are the risk takers. They put their money at stake, to provide the jobs that communities thrive on. But this bill takes that away from them; it means if people take over a contract, be it in catering or cleaning for example, they will have to take on existing staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EOne of the very important issues about employment, and people being prepared to invest to grow the economy, is that it is a win-win situation. But that will not happen if the environment is rife with employment law, Resource Management Act issues, Accident Compensation Corporation levies, and all those matters that affect small business\u2014and we are a nation of small business, with 85 percent of all businesses employing fewer than 10 people. Small business employs 360,000-odd people, yet this bill will stifle that initiative. There will be absolutely no incentive for small business to grow, because a lot of firms will retrench. They will say: \u201CThis is too hard for me.\u201D, and will downsize.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI note an issue about contingent liability that did not come up in the Committee stage but is important to identify. If people want to sell their business, there is a contractual arrangement between the purchaser and the vendor to do whatever. But with these contracts there is a contingent liability to take on the existing staff. No business will want to do that. If we value a business, we will find there is absolutely no goodwill in it, because of the contingent liability that a potential purchaser will have to undertake to abide by the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226355a19fc1794c70814b9c412536a202\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Who would take the risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e836c89a6743ad944dc77ed9d8e393\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague Colin King asks: \u201CWho would take the risk?\u201D. He has been in business. He knows what it is like to be an employer of staff. If we want a growing, vibrant economy in which there is investment, opportunities for small business to grow and to invest in the community\u2014to make it all work\u2014this sort of repressive legislation does not do anything to facilitate that. Who misses out? At the end of the day it is the employees who miss out. The real people whom one would expect legislation would try to protect are the ones who miss out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThis bill is very short-sighted. I note, as someone who has been involved in employment for many, many years, that this is the sort of legislation that stifles initiative and makes things more difficult for those people whom we should be trying to help, to nurture, so that we get a win-win situation in a business environment. Then everybody can prosper with it. But as soon as restrictions are put on and things are made difficult for employers, they will ask why they should bother. They will take their money and shoot through or put it into other investments that will not create jobs. They will be passive investments. They will probably put their money into real estate, which has seen a boom. In the area where I come from median prices have gone up. There is a lot of capital gain to be made, so businesses will decide not to bother about the risks of employing staff. They will move away from that environment, and put their money where they know they have a safe return and do not have to worry about facing the employment challenges caused by the Government continually changing the rules and moving the goalposts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThis legislation makes things very, very restrictive for business and does not help the vulnerable workers, whom the bill purports to try to help. It does not help them at all. Those people who do the employing, those who make the investment, want a return on it. We know there have been sharks out there, but they have been sorted out. This bill will not allow people who want to build goodwill to do so. This is the 15th attempt at making changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EEconomies with growth and productivity are economies where employers and employees can nurture the value of that investment. Be it capital on the one side or labour on the other, it becomes a win-win situation. Legislation like this, which stifles initiative, will not work. Employers will be looking very closely at this; I can tell members that. They will not be taking on those sorts of contracts where vulnerable workers are likely to be working, and we will find that there is a huge shortfall in those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThis bill is not good law. It will not help the people it is designed to help. Employers, as those who make the investment, will be very disappointed with this legislation. It is short-sighted and it is very one-sided, and that is why National is voting against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b192783a134d4a53a6398f0f52040eb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b192783a134d4a53a6398f0f52040eb5\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a brief call on the third reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I think it is pertinent to remind members of at least one aspect of the bill that is important, which is the fact that it will protect specified vulnerable employees, such as cleaners and food and catering service workers. The terms and conditions of employment of those specified employees have successively been undermined where that work\u2014and they do work\u2014is contracted out or passed on to another business, the contract is sold or transferred, or the work is brought back in-house. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003ESome of the speeches we have heard here this evening from members of the Opposition betray any talk of their caring for those members of the workforce, or any other workers, for that matter, with crocodile tears\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4625462eae94733ae5dc28ad8962ce3\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Stop making it up!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af50fd27110344b9b955db117f21e168\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the kinds of throw-off comments that the deputy leader of the National Party chooses to make by interjection. Those members do not give a stuff about the workers of this country\u2014they never have! What have their speeches consisted of? They want to think about the business people alone. What about the people who clean the office of that member opposite? In fact, those workers look after us all here in Parliament. This is the kind of achievement a bill like this, put forward by this Government, can make for the real workers in this country. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfa806b88afe497b8dddb2360ab98018\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfa806b88afe497b8dddb2360ab98018\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I, too, would like to take a short call in support of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, and really get back to its intention in terms of offering protections to vulnerable workers. What does that really mean? It means that vulnerable workers such as cleaners and those who work in food services will be allowed to continue to receive their terms and conditions of employment on transfer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EIt is important that they continue to receive their terms and conditions of employment on the transfer of their employment, because so often in the past we have witnessed the employers of those workers\u2014many of whom have worked in excess of 15 to 30 years\u2014go into a liquidation situation, and those workers have lost their service-related entitlements overnight. There would be no redundancy, and no reason at all for doing that, other than that the contractor has gone broke. So this bill represents a huge change in ensuring that those protections are in place. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227c941d88efe54e5fa29b6e8d9ba88d87\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; United Future 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227505464d22ee477291f9a73dd2bdbc87\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b47f0d5af0f4bc1822574c140e51699\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00222bac5deee2b54ceb9b5faca96971887e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bac5deee2b54ceb9b5faca96971887e\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Under Standing Order 71, I move, That Government order of the day No. 2 for the interrupted debate on the second reading of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill be postponed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f453038cc7a440d3a267c56dd04ac004\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224902a3c775934cc5b61df27ff1641f75\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6cbd2c0d8bf4612901001236d21f4e9\u0022\u003EElectoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill\u2014Order of the Day Discharged\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220dcffb82064d4664ac4d7d08c4d37b47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220dcffb82064d4664ac4d7d08c4d37b47\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E In accordance with Standing Order 71, I move, That the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill be discharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a1c47080d154d5ab5036e560ae67913\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that it can be done only by leave. So the question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00222840ab3b8e954fb39add4cffbb0eebcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222840ab3b8e954fb39add4cffbb0eebcd\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I will read you Standing Order 71(1): \u201CAn order of the day may be discharged or postponed\u2014(a) on motion without notice, or\u201D\u2014and this is the salient point\u2014\u201C(b) by the member in whose name the order stands informing the Clerk accordingly.\u201D That means anyone. There is no restriction here on the moving of that motion, and I so move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222090afb1ca84c549bd830543db77596\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Brownlee. I understand it can be discharged only if it is called, and the bill has not been called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1fe4c997ba4410692706ccc6ea21667\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: With all due respect, Mr Assistant Speaker, can you point to the Standing Order that says that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270f98be3892c42d2a8ea88b3d15b5c13\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The practice is a convention of the House, and it has been for some time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b1e60848f8452cab961a8197e55a17\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Assistant Speaker, with all due respect, it used to be a convention that people had to wear morning suits in this House\u2014that changed, because someone stopped wearing one. To say that the Standing Orders are subject to the whim of the day is quite wrong. This is a Standing Order that does not disempower any member from moving accordingly. National Party members know why the Government has taken this action today, and we do not like it. The Standing Orders are not there for the Government; they are there for Parliament and for parliamentarians. So, Mr Assistant Speaker, I ask you to put my motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022 data-id=\u0022312ea209263749c29b0e3bb2edb3fe78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022312ea209263749c29b0e3bb2edb3fe78\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In relation to this matter, my understanding is that it is in the power of the House to decide whether an item of business is taken. The Minister moved that the second Government order of the day be delayed. The House has voted on that and it has been delayed. Now we should move on to the third Government order of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022dea4d59e3d3441a3a9547955f1bf3537\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dea4d59e3d3441a3a9547955f1bf3537\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E With all due respect to the senior Labour whip, why on earth does he presume that the provisions of the Standing Orders do not apply to all members? What is it that gives the Government members the presumption that the Standing Orders are there only for them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002249e264d5fda04a3ea39663456651966b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249e264d5fda04a3ea39663456651966b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building Issues):\u003C/span\u003E There is one point that the member overlooks\u2014you have ruled, Mr Assistant Speaker. You are in charge here, not him. Until that changes, he cannot change the rules. As I understand it, you have ruled and he is challenging your ruling. He has a course of action he can pursue on that, but he cannot challenge your ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002219c948e9df424f1c9ed8085550cbc2db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219c948e9df424f1c9ed8085550cbc2db\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, if I was challenging your ruling, then, presumably, you would have ruled that only the Government can use Standing Order 71. If that is what you have ruled, then let us get that in writing and let us make that the new rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4d78c9df30c4ffd973cf052b658fe8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4d78c9df30c4ffd973cf052b658fe8c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Brownlee. The motion is out of order. An order of the day can be discharged only if it has been called. A simple motion to discharge can be moved only by the member in charge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022469f2016d7ab4909a0f56f754dfe5841\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022469f2016d7ab4909a0f56f754dfe5841\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E With respect, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a098b359387d48b7bdab790e1a785e3f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a point of order? I have actually ruled, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022876e660582c04535a988fd8bcc7fc731\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: You have told me what you understand the rulings are, but you do not make any reference to the Standing Orders to back up your position. [Interruption] The member on the other side of the House says that I am challenging the Speaker. I am not. I am protecting the rights that members of Parliament are granted under the Standing Orders that we all agree to operate under. I say to Mr Cosgrove that no one member of this House is more or less elected than anybody else, and we cannot have the Speaker deciding that the Standing Orders are there for the exclusive use of the Government. That is not what the Standing Orders say. I cannot find a Standing Order that states that an item on the Order Paper can be discharged only if it has been called, and I cannot find a ruling in Speakers\u2019 Rulings to that effect, so they cannot exist. All I am asking is that my motion, which is properly put, is considered by the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u002290234904ed3b4a5db35ee6380416d649\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290234904ed3b4a5db35ee6380416d649\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The discharge of a bill is quite a serious issue, and to do it without any consultation with any other party is a very serious issue. New Zealand First members would have listened more intently to Mr Brownlee, or taken him a bit more seriously, if he had had the courtesy to come and talk to New Zealand First beforehand. We are in no position to say, one way or the other, whether New Zealand First is united on what he wants, and I suggest that that applies to all the parties. I think Mr Brownlee should respect the convention of the House that one deals through the whips to put an issue to the respective parties. Then he might get a more harmonious answer. To ask us to discharge a bill just because he has stood up and asked us to do so is really not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u00229b7c5642701a40f580e5d7dca7fd5492\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b7c5642701a40f580e5d7dca7fd5492\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Brown\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a6651941225434783dd42644390aedc\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: May I speak to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ff518d2e544472cb2d93a74c00cee62\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member may speak to it, then I want to raise another issue with the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224de4e88891064ef3897d2c5d8d9e51f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224de4e88891064ef3897d2c5d8d9e51f7\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E The option is there, of course, for New Zealand First, if it does not know what to do, to abstain when the motion is put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002234333f3e78c84b68928d5d31c83e0292\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234333f3e78c84b68928d5d31c83e0292\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I refer members to page 164 of the third edition of Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand, by David McGee. Under the heading \u201CDischarge on motion\u201D, it states: \u201CAn order of the day may be discharged on motion. Such a motion does not require notice and is moved immediately the order of the day is called by the Clerk.\u201D That is where we are now. I now call on Government order of the day No. 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022362f3547d8cc4ec3b42aa1676d36eaea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022362f3547d8cc4ec3b42aa1676d36eaea\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b331af434d485faf1c01dab76b94c2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already ruled, Mr Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ce15e91465824109b8e384a2a0597701\u0022\u003ETe Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e22c61d5ade49f0b268819eaf713081\u0022\u003EDischarge\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c575dc541c50431b897f63f5c2659354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c575dc541c50431b897f63f5c2659354\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That Government order of the day No. 3 be discharged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022198247ffb1154712b059154899bda0ef\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is the master of its own destiny. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002227a792f18e9144f6b474dd7cdf8f94fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227a792f18e9144f6b474dd7cdf8f94fa\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have moved a motion. I moved that Government order of the day No. 3 be discharged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7f0044389364056b6dcc687a2357e39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7f0044389364056b6dcc687a2357e39\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member can move that. He must provide, I understand, for what is called the freight of the bill. Only the member in charge of the bill can move its discharge, and he must provide an avenue for its referral back to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229f18ca4a9774416d98e586f167580d21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f18ca4a9774416d98e586f167580d21\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Standing Order 71, \u201CDischarge or postponement of order of the day\u201D, states: \u201C(1) An order of the day may be discharged or postponed\u2014(a) on motion without notice, or (b) by the member in whose name the order stands informing the Clerk accordingly.\u201D Why would there be an \u201Cor\u201D there if\u2014I will wait until you have finished, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224751dce9a63e40b9933e8fbae2203e7b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the member can move that motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab066b30942d449996a46476cdb278b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab066b30942d449996a46476cdb278b3\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be discharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f605c2b105004b85a5ad04dce72278f6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be discharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002215de26be67564c7aa2e4c2e0c49f397f\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bee32efa66634712bb81248eae005dd4\u0022\u003EStanding Orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb29009900b84547befc11c989543d96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb29009900b84547befc11c989543d96\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table Standing Order 62.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a88247c5f15440ac93c919ab723e49e9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f496c103326a40d7a786d7af2f3f88af\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Standing Order 63.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f37c80a7292d4b06b643770e2ffe14f0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254811ebf73f24e2883efc1a98aa3f340\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Standing Order 64.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ea78abaae441be81b146540c712083\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255854f85ceb4498f89bedd071957816d\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Standing Order 65.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca743867b622426c8240632be44392b1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e8f30e8487a4c6dbcaa6a70562189e9\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Standing Order 66.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb4722703f1425a891a7aa1e8f25109\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u002238cf09e0eba94a4082c3b32a78fa4a29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238cf09e0eba94a4082c3b32a78fa4a29\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is getting ridiculous. Why do we not table the whole book? I seek leave to table the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022642002adfef54d458418152af5266d52\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3404a424db14cb9b17b063b37211f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3404a424db14cb9b17b063b37211f70\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table Standing Order 67.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f860b4445528412e8c25a2452a9213f0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd967ad92f464c878af7b0e339fce5cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd967ad92f464c878af7b0e339fce5cc\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. At what point will this conduct of Mr Brownlee\u2019s be deemed by the Speaker to be, first, trifling with the Chair, second, bringing the House into disrepute, and, third, causing disorder, and at what point will you eject Mr Brownlee from the House for being guilty of all of those things?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503828c1fc4640fd8acfea2a8c85c174\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Mark. I heard what you said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227c6bb0a12f8d487b9024997d792fa32e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c6bb0a12f8d487b9024997d792fa32e\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table Speaker\u2019s ruling 128/1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d46ee23767e46dd87e910a0e8f97aec\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0c6e615c4d2443a84efa6af2fa35090\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0c6e615c4d2443a84efa6af2fa35090\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Speaker\u2019s ruling 20/1 refers to behaviour that is trifling with the House. I suggest that Mr Brownlee\u2019s behaviour, by repeatedly seeking to table particular Standing Orders, is disorderly, and that under that ruling you may wish to reflect on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250cd10ac52c54477a23bfafd2256b628\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Speaker\u2019s ruling 20/1 states: \u201CConstantly raising trifling points of order is itself disorderly.\u201D Mr Brownlee has raised a number of points of order. So far the House has chosen to ignore them by not giving the member leave. The member is raising trifling points of order. To continue to raise them is in itself disorderly. The member will desist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e79c3304fdd4a6782f5b61baf534bfe\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223efae49af26e4072be606036bb29c594\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already made a ruling on that, Mr Brownlee, and there the matter ends. If the member continues to raise points of order, then he leaves me very little option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002246a83cf1f348443da5545d56e7f6f0b5\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225938d09d1e9a476badd7032a8653f776\u0022\u003EOrders of the Day\u2014Standing Orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229e53d6d7bbb54aacb707003e8033a7f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e53d6d7bbb54aacb707003e8033a7f4\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you would be kind enough to give us an indication of how you view the Government\u2019s practice of, without notice, deciding to change the Order Paper in order to accommodate its own business. This is a House of Representatives. It is a House where the balance of votes is reasonably finely tuned, and members should expect to be able to make their various arrangements around the Order Paper as it is provided by the Government. I realise that today has been a very bad day for the Government. It has, to a large extent, lost control of the House process through its own clever behaviour, but to exacerbate that situation by taking the course of action that it has this afternoon, invites the Opposition to use whatever mechanisms are available to it in order to protect the rights of members of Parliament. That is what I am doing. If you want to rule against that, Mr Assistant Speaker, that is fine. I accept that you have told me that by seeking to table the Standing Orders or Speakers\u2019 rulings I am trifling with the Chair. It is an interesting decision, but none the less I accept it. But I do ask you to reflect on the question I have put in front of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002225469cfddc78489183b71c6955c5c827\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225469cfddc78489183b71c6955c5c827\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The interesting debate we have in front of us here is that Mr Brownlee, who it has been suggested is trifling with the Chair, is defending himself by saying that to change the Order Paper is somehow something that he should now indulge himself in moral outrage about. I direct his attention to Standing Order 71, which states: \u201C(1) An order of the day may be discharged or postponed\u2014(a) on motion without notice, or (b) by the member in whose name the order stands informing the Clerk accordingly. (2) There is no amendment or debate on the question to discharge or postpone an order of the day.\u201D I have been here for 16 years, and I have seen that done by both Governments on a number of occasions. If other members have decided they want to cause some disruption in the House, it sometimes does result in the kind of thing we have seen from Mr Brownlee, but there is no Standing Order that states it cannot be done. Therefore, the views I am hearing from members around the Chamber hold water: that this is clearly being done by Mr Brownlee because he personally just does not like it, and therefore essentially wants to trifle with the House at this time, in order to take up time,. The Standing Order is there; he knows that. He has been here for a shorter time than me, but a long enough time to know that. Mr Brownlee is the shadow Leader of the House, and he understands the Standing Order. He knows it is there; he can read it. So clearly Mr Brownlee is doing what members say he is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262d160a8312e4e5b8c81a4a8714c3c86\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I am going to rule. I have looked at Standing Order 71. It provides for any member to move the postponement of an order of the day. A Minister did so, and the House has agreed that the order of the day be postponed. It is the decision of the House; the House has made that decision. I declare the House in Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002230eea832e84a4b8bbf90cc9902b83ad9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230eea832e84a4b8bbf90cc9902b83ad9\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2385a83854f4059aecbcddd937c6ab0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee, I have made a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d295857cbc7472babbcb4c43d92a55e\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you have, and it is an interesting ruling. But we have also learnt today that it is possible for any member to move the discharge of a bill at any time. I cannot think of a Standing Order that could allow the House to become more unruly than that one, if every time a bill was called we were to go through that sort of process. There is always, in any circumstance, a desire to allow a Government to transact its business. But Governments should not ride roughshod over members of the House in the way we have had this afternoon. The Order Paper, as far as I can make out, was changed about 40 minutes ago. The Government casually said it had given too much leave to the people who were supposed to discuss the Insolvency Law Reform Bill, so it would oblige itself by using its parliamentary majority to simply change the Order Paper. That, Mr Assistant Speaker, cuts right across the rights of other parties to have people in this House participate in debates at a reasonable time, with reasonable notice. That is why we have a problem and, frankly, will continue to have a problem, because we do not think it is fair that the Government goes ahead with this proposal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f3faa515794cc28c1ac62b4cc535b8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Brownlee. You have made your point. Again I refer you to Standing Order 71, and I reiterate that an order of the day may be discharged or postponed. If you look at Standing Order 71(2), you will see that it states: \u201CThere is no amendment or debate on the question to discharge or postpone an order of the day.\u201D I now declare the House in Committee for consideration of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235a20da689c44b73ab44f4d64ace965b\u0022\u003ETe Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002214cd62f97acb4d408380b022fe02c3e0\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7c57b75d73949ab8afb7217e4d68389\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7c57b75d73949ab8afb7217e4d68389\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I move, That order of the day No. 3 for consideration in Committee of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be postponed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240bd4443ad8641cab709feaddbe69152\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. I declare the House in Committee for consideration of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223f63a9ef312843649939b56bd8d96162\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f63a9ef312843649939b56bd8d96162\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, that was a motion. A motion is either put or is not accepted. You have just told us you have to accept it, so should it not be put? It was not a request for leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f825d3f3cbd84a86aef50a829055740b\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bfdfbb1397b42089191627258e7ac0f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member is entitled to put the motion. I will put the motion, and then the member can have his point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002231e686cd7cf74c06accec881cbc814fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231e686cd7cf74c06accec881cbc814fd\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I clarify whether this is a motion without debate or a motion that includes debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268544fa7234141f8a90eef42b470ea98\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is just a motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221df00fad1d25450abdc9ca3d04c984af\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That order of the day No. 3 for consideration in committee of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill, be postponed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 71\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6dfe2804e744b5f9b850fb736ed087f\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222740412fe2d54d839d948cdd21583d8c\u0022\u003ENewsletters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00220a81e05513294c4eb84018d5d6c08afa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a81e05513294c4eb84018d5d6c08afa\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a Molesworth \u0026amp; Featherston given out today\u2014the Governor\u2019s edition\u2014that speaks about the markets. It also has something about the economy, and a lot about economic surveys\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200ed1a13f2534b73b4e3e96914ecea4a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022223111cea9a8421f9ed2d510af15e26c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022223111cea9a8421f9ed2d510af15e26c\u0022\u003EPAULA BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to table the Trans Tasman, which has a number of things in it, like \u201CThe Nats fire up corruption charges\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d157a62628d9495688293fe9849089b2\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cb5dcac8b5d47798b5a74849e4d1fa0\u0022\u003ETe Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002208e2258f33ec4a8eaca095454e295f87\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226db0778253a64ccbadf5a1237a175e2e\u0022\u003EPreamble\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022652e383a70684898bea828a9a53540ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022652e383a70684898bea828a9a53540ab\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, it is disappointing that we are progressing with the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill when many people who would have wished to be here to make a contribution to it are unable to be here, because the Government has chosen to accommodate itself with quite an unscrupulous use of the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill is controversial in some ways, because it enables a transfer\u2014or re-transfer\u2014of the ownership of the lake beds to the Te Arawa people. At the very outset of this bill we were confronted with a considerable amount of misinformation about the process that had taken place in the early 1920s. During the course of discussions in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee we were prepared to accept that what we had been told initially was wrong. The problem at the start was that when the 1922 settlement was concluded\u2014and that settlement had been going on for quite some years, but was interrupted by World War I\u2014the final deal was done between a lawyer from Auckland who, I understand, represented Te Arawa but was not of Te Arawa; a lawyer from Wellington who, I understand, represented the Crown but was also not of Te Arawa; and the Crown\u2019s agent in the settlement, the Minister effectively involved, Sir Apirana Ngata, who was also not of Te Arawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo an imposed settlement was put in place. Te Arawa were to take some \u00A36,000 a year as a gratuity, paid perpetually. They were to receive a number of fishing licences for the lakes, without charge. But the ownership of the lakes was taken by the various councils or embodiments that at the time had responsibility for waterways and other such things. So it was evident in the select committee process that there was always a question about who owned those things. If the issue had to be settled like that in 1922, then quite clearly the presumption must have been that Te Arawa owned the lake beds. That was quite a revelation for us. It was quite an interesting position to come to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen we looked at the proposal that was on the table. The first part of the proposal was that the annuity payable to Te Arawa was to be terminated and replaced by a cash sum of some $10 million. In our view that it is probably the best thing to do, because nowadays \u00A36,000 is $12,000 and no one can do much about looking after anything these days with that amount. But $10 million gives people a chance to move forward. Given that we are discharging a perpetual obligation, it is not an unreasonable thing to do for the New Zealand taxpayer, and it is a fair thing to do for Te Arawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen we thought, what about the ownership of the lake beds? There the matter became difficult. Te Arawa, although represented in the process by the Te Arawa M\u0101ori Trust Board, is an amalgam of many hap\u016B and many wh\u0101nau. Interestingly, 18 submissions were opposed to this bill, and only two or three were in favour of it. Most of those submissions came from Te Arawa themselves. If we are to look at getting past the difficulties of 1922 and the imposed settlement, the first thing we would have thought was that the settlor party would at least be united about what it wanted. We looked further at that, and found that in other settlements a r\u016Bnanga structure has been put in place, where all of the interests had a seat on that r\u016Bnanga structure and could therefore have a say on the way that the particular transferred asset or cash settlement, or whatever it was, was used for the wider benefit of the settlor party. In this case, the trust board does not have a representative of all of those hap\u016B groups. So we had the situation where groups were coming to the select committee and saying they were not part of the trust board, but forever and a day a particular one of the 14 lakes has been theirs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E So before we even start talking about the issues that arise around the airspace, the water column, and all the rest of it, essentially we have a conflict inside the group known as Te Arawa about whether this claim should be settled in this way. And all I am asking people today is whether that sort of conflict is not exactly why we are here today, trying to sort it out. How can we take the 1922 legislation, say that it was no good, it was not fair, it was imposed, it was put upon these people, and, therefore, we have to do something about it, and then just go through the process to do exactly the same thing again? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIf people were to look at the mandating process for this particular lakes settlement, they would find that the census will record that there are some 40,000-odd New Zealanders who say they are Te Arawa. But only 9,000 people participated in the vote to ratify this particular settlement, and, of those, only 4,000 returned their ballot. So 10 percent of the group known as Te Arawa are participants by choice\u2014and not all of them are in favour of it\u2014in this settlement. No one in this Chamber can comfortably stand up and say that this settlement is full, final, and fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELet me concede that the fair part of it always depends upon the settlor party accepting the settlement. That is why the select committee itself is constrained in these bills. It cannot just go off and negotiate something different. It has to accept what the Office of Treaty Settlements comes along with and says is the deal. So it becomes vitally important that the deal is done with the right people. If anyone who wants to stand up and tell us that he or she is 100 percent convinced that those people who came to the select committee saying that they are being dispossessed by this settlement are of no consequence, then let that person do it. But I do not think it is fair to successive generations that we make a hash of this process, because where the effort is made to ensure that the right structure is in place\u2014not imposed, but chosen by the people who are settling\u2014then we achieve extraordinary successes. We can point to those all round the countryside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ed70c00ab5a45388ec60d8885099ef2\u0022\u003EHon Mahara Okeroa\u003C/span\u003E: Where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a83051c90b4a5695181e311a657e78\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The people who benefit from those successes will be the future leaders of this nation\u2014and I am not surprised that the MP for Te Tai Tonga, a man for whom the island Te Waipounamu is a strange and seldom-visited place, has no idea of the success around the Ng\u0101i Tahu settlement. I am not surprised that the member for\u2014what is it\u2014Te Tai Tonga has no idea what happens in the Tainui rohe, for example. He has no idea, because the Labour Government has very, very narrowly focused members in its M\u0101ori caucus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022 data-id=\u00227c3d8295a8984016a987a3ac6ed9b135\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c3d8295a8984016a987a3ac6ed9b135\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I take this opportunity to take a call on the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill. I will just make a few comments in relation to the comments of the previous speaker, Gerry Brownlee, surrounding the position of the Office of Treaty Settlements, its impact, and how it affects\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9286bcea5f3429d9292289c33927c17\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200609072feda03dda844af093512af3d0e5d0d9000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"