"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220dce4b72535f4397a32c989ab5e64ed8\u0022\u003EThursday, 12 October 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002292c281a5ed17411394831e6dd0fa163e\u0022\u003EThursday, 12 October 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd452b5575924c02b781b8738c8af4af\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222138163b11ea4d45958e3532e57da456\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00222e54aac2127740738695ae6c65fdb1e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e54aac2127740738695ae6c65fdb1e0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week in the House priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill, the Communications Legislation Bill, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill, and the Sports Anti-Doping Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002269372e1b76fb455ea615799eeaa27743\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269372e1b76fb455ea615799eeaa27743\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I wonder whether the Leader of the House could give us any indication at this stage as to whether he believes there will be a need for Parliament to set aside time for legislation that might result from the Auditor-General\u2019s report today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022468c303c38bd41ada6943075438194e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022468c303c38bd41ada6943075438194e8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I do not know, of course, until I have seen the Auditor-General\u2019s report and the Speaker\u2019s response to that. However, I can tell the member that I have verbal advice from both Treasury and Crown Law that repayment of moneys has no relationship to the expenditure being unlawful, including the National Party expenditure, and that can be remedied only by legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220153a431edfd4e92b6a0f7e388ae2968\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca6d5a17f7724f0ea554bd723f441105\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b0160141a3e40fa919195d2b8539996\u0022\u003EMarsden Fund\u2014Code of Ethics\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c28dc12bd84bb1ba52b220c2399157\u0022\u003E1. TE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Research, Science and Technology: Does he recall advising the House that the Marsden Fund is \u201Crun by researchers who are our very own senior researchers, making their own applications\u201D; if so, what is the code of ethics that enables these very senior researchers to do this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u00221ab73b68e5ef42df9348138df0b1afe3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ab73b68e5ef42df9348138df0b1afe3\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Research, Science and Technology):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for the question, which has undoubtedly captured the imagination of the House today. What I was saying in context yesterday was that Marsden is a fund that our most senior researchers apply to. Unlike most of our research funding, the funding is untargeted and therefore enables researchers to put forward proposals that they believe will advance their academic field, as judged by panels of their peers. Contracts between the Marsden Fund and researchers \u201Cmust comply with the Royal Society of New Zealand Code of Professional Standards and Ethics and with other recognised codes relating to the type of research being undertaken\u201D. I will seek leave to table the relevant code of ethics at the end of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218b93bc0e73d4267a27783e7da461b23\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall advising the House: \u201Cthe Marsden Fund is based largely, almost exclusively in fact, on a Western tradition of knowledge.\u201D, and does he consider this to be an instance of institutional racism, which a previous Labour Government departmental report described as \u201Cbias in our social and administrative institutions that automatically benefits the dominant race or culture while penalising minority and subordinate groups\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec75676564847a2aaba9f7a086047ad\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not regard it as a case of institutional racism. The point I was making yesterday is not that M\u0101ori knowledge cannot be studied, but that the Marsden Fund, like most funds of this kind around the world, comes out of a Western tradition of knowledge. That is how things are done. As a professional sociologist, could I say that the definition the member has read out is absolutely right and does not apply at all to this particular fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022938e508753c749a0a0cdd89161a6869d\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Could he tell the House what the process is for deciding what research is funded by the Marsden Fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccde31205d5944a888e4b3cfd57d9c66\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Preliminary applications to the Marsden Fund are assessed by one of nine panels, each made up of about eight leading researchers. The top 25 percent of applications are then assessed by international experts, and recommendations are made to the Marsden Council, which makes the final decisions. As an additional check, an independent councillor oversees the process. The fund is governed by strict conflict of interest procedures in order to ensure that panel members have no involvement in the assessment of proposals that they might submit. As I confirmed yesterday, to avoid any perception\u2014and I emphasise the word \u201Cperception\u201D\u2014of a conflict of interest, the council agreed recently to prevent panel members from applying for funding from next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4401398553c40b1b86a3cbee88c213b\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: When will the report into the Marsden Fund that the Prime Minister said on Radio Pacific she would order, or the report that the Minister said was ordered, as reported by Radio New Zealand and the National Business Review, be available so that the public can be assured that process, prioritisation, and quantum of funding is absolutely robust?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2cbae9473f343acaa558664ff270ae0\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said repeatedly, I am convinced that the Marsden Fund is absolutely robust and has been ever since the Rt Hon Simon Upton launched that particular fund. What I have said is that the Prime Minister is able to access directly from the Marsden Fund numerous reports on how it works. Unlike the member, I have confidence in Garth Carnaby and the team to provide that information. I have no doubts about its processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1efce7930d84716b04d3cad402f4664\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I asked a very specific question as to when the report that the Prime Minister ordered will be available to the public, and the Minister failed to answer that very specific question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aff30fc2a354b61a4de307e5feb8be7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought the Minister did address the question, but if he wanted to just reinforce his point, he is entitled to do so. But he did address it as to reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223adf3fb8e95412ba4d980cf9960776b\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, the report to the Prime Minister is available at any time she asks for it. She has asked for that report, the Marsden Council knows that it may be asked for a report, and, at any time that she wants it, she knows that it is available. But, like me, having discussed this matter, she has total faith in the processes\u2014unlike that member, who now has to go out and explain to the science community why he is trying to undermine this particular fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de33943f16f24fa1a965aa74b6d2c8e5\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s statement that the Marsden Fund is based \u201Calmost exclusively \u2026 on a Western tradition of knowledge\u201D, what is he, as responsible Minister, intending to do to ensure that apparent Western bias is addressed, in order to reflect the multicultural nature of education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371d4b51199f45639221991ad9d28a80\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot detect any bias, and, therefore, I will not be doing anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb13623b5804a279795c087b7753c52\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table one paper\u2014that is, a report from Radio Pacific, dated 28 September 2006, in which the Prime Minister stated she would be asking for a report about the robust procedures relating to the Marsden Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022385bca8b9a99402c9d8d731f87e91cca\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Royal Society of New Zealand\u2019s code of professional standards and ethics, which applies to the Marsden Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022253f20eac1cc418dad45c1cb62dc3d3c\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Operating Balance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa03dea4aeb4f01bb495de4e0fbd764\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What is the Crown\u2019s actual operating balance for 2005-06, as reported in the last line of table 3 of the Financial Statements of the Government of New Zealand released yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d89261affb754c6ca60e8ea90e0e880c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d89261affb754c6ca60e8ea90e0e880c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The figure is $11,473 million, of which approximately $2.8 billion is accounting and revaluation changes, and $2.9 billion is investments and returns on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c937f6acee4fffb02ade525ba65c3a\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen page 21 of the Financial Statements of the Government of New Zealand, which indicates that in the year 2000 tax revenue as a percentage of GDP was 28.8 percent, and that it has now risen in 2006 to 33.1 percent, at a time when GDP has clearly been growing; and how can he justify taking an even larger slice of the cake?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022901a9e2387f842b7bc6be95e659ec410\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: In that time we have done a number of things. We have, for example, restored the level of New Zealand superannuation, which was cut by the previous National Government. We have removed the policy of very large increases in student fees every year. We have established interest-free student loans. We have massively increased the Working for Families payments, which count as expenditure as opposed to tax reductions in terms of the accounting principles. According to a report I have recently seen, New Zealanders are 88 percent satisfied with their quality of life in New Zealand. I suspect that that figure would be matched in very few countries in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268095d527e374ec6bfa2ea515381de38\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any reports on the consequences of large-scale tax cuts in an economic environment with inflationary and current account imbalances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc9c1891b1414f7e8760f973b855faa4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen reports of Australia\u2019s experience of introducing large-scale tax cuts earlier this year. The result was higher interest rates and higher mortgage repayments, leading to a slump in consumer sentiment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccdc38c2dc874953b1a7b023431bc896\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason that the Minister of Finance raised more revenue than could arguably be required that the Labour Party\u2014as we now find out, in the very recently received report from the Controller and Auditor-General\u2014had spent $768,000 of taxpayers\u2019 money, and will he be decent enough to pay the money back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab9e5fcce274296b051cb5455460767\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member yesterday was terribly excited about an $11.5 billion surplus. The proportion of that figure that $750,000 represents is not even within the daily forecasting error by Treasury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a968dcf3864262bfbb887fc298bbc6\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister not in the House because she is embarrassed, as the Labour Party is, that Labour owes $768,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae58d36940644718ae9bc34ba5f4b5e2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please be seated! When I stand, members sit. That question is outside the scope of the primary question. Does the member have another supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef1665c1c2bc4fa688d77b24ebbee7fb\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s too excited to be leader, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1c0d986f0994c5db85b09d83db138dd\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I am too embarrassed to be in that member\u2019s party\u2014that is for sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227620b56e36de4deeaf33c996b0b600de\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please withdraw that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228187b763b0154d2b93a99815fbd78a74\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: He interjected on me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7a11503f10410ab8806d7032dad2d8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would members on the Government side of the House also stop their interjections that are likely to provoke other interjections. Right from the outset, let us remember what the rules are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc284bc204d41d4a6c73a9f46074b6f\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: When the Government increased its tax revenue last year to a whopping 33.1 percent of GDP, was it because the Government knew that it needed $768,000 of taxpayers\u2019 money, and is that the reason the Prime Minister is not here today to defend that\u2014because she is deeply embarrassed about the situation\u2014or had she seen the report already?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220adf3e49362b44ff83bacb8ae347a722\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The expenditure referred to represents approximately 0.001 percent of total Government revenue for the year. What I would like the member to do is to explain what the National Party spent its leader\u2019s budget on, as no invoices are available and the Auditor-General could not examine what it spent the money on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa7be4d511ae4c3f9e7db0241356253e\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If the $768,000 of taxpayers\u2019 money that the Labour Party inappropriately spent is so insignificant at 0.001 percent of GDP, why does the Labour Party not have the courage to pay the money back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022617a4cd5c0504ffe980fb59363aaa0c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have no parliamentary responsibility for that question, as Minister of Finance or as acting Prime Minister. The Prime Minister will respond, when she has had a chance to read the reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ce0611b3a74e95a60397d60247d2a1\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen page 19 of the Financial Statements of the Government of New Zealand, and if he has seen it, could he explain why yesterday he told the House: \u201CThe fact is that the largest operating surplus, as a percentage of GDP, particularly excluding accounting changes, occurred when Sir William Birch was the Minister of Finance.\u201D\u2014if he has read page 19, he will know that, in fact, the graph shows that the highest level under Sir William Birch was 3 percent of GDP, yet yesterday the surplus was 7.3 percent of GDP\u2014and yesterday when he tacked on his pithy little answer: \u201CThe member just makes it up as he goes along.\u201D, was he the member he was talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285e2ab6c2689470c8aad5078bc9f8481\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before members go any further, I draw their attention to Standing Order 371, to which reference was made yesterday. If members would like to consider that. They should ask their questions straight, without other comment, and the answers should be given in like way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf5409335224f2689de56bb29320d4d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I assume, Madam Speaker, that when the question has not been asked in that way, the answer can follow likewise. Of course, the member is so upset because he got the pith taken out of him yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002209b699c8eaa44e0a9afa6e2bdca5dfdc\u0022\u003ERoading\u2014State Highway 1, Picton to Christchurch\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2acbeeaea6641e5bda2d48d9ad26fb2\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What progress has been made on State Highway 1, between Picton and Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022db730aea52864fc0bb64e0d0e0ae892e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db730aea52864fc0bb64e0d0e0ae892e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Considerable progress has been made in the last few years. New Zealanders and visitors to one of the most beautiful parts of our country can enjoy the realignment and replacement of the narrow bridge over the railway line at the elevation just south of Picton, the \u014Ckiwi Bay realignment, the Saltwater Creek realignment, and the main north road four-laning project just south of the Waimakariri River\u2014to mention just some of the improvements that have happened under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022105a695baf784328a7746226626f4987\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: What action has been taken in respect of the Awatere Bridge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237ef6841432a430b9e419806e13c05f1\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The Awatere Bridge was completed in 1901 and has served the community well. But by the early 1990s there were intensified calls for the one-lane road-rail bridge to be replaced with a bridge suitable for State Highway 1. Under this Government, those calls have been heeded. Construction of the new bridge started in February. It is the largest roading project in the district in recent history\u2014long awaited. Nine months into the project, all the foundations are in place, the road deck is under way, and the rail bridge is preserved alongside the new road bridge. That is due to the good work of the previous Minister of Transport, who got the project off the ground, whereas the National Government only talked about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff121677ebd4b0db3fd0bd9927f8758\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell Parliament that while in Opposition Labour spent 9 years complaining about the Awatere Bridge, and then on becoming the Government took 7 long years before it did anything about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c98d11503cec4d76b3239192e750f1db\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Government has done something about it. I just ask why the National Party, which has represented that district for most of its existence\u2014most of the time since the bridge was built in 1901\u2014and which had 9 years to do something about the bridge when the people of that member\u2019s district were saying it was a problem, did nothing. It took this Government to take that matter seriously. The bridge is under way; it is being built and will be opened\u2014no thanks to the National Party, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219c3c47cd46945b68a5a67dfd8107a13\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has the Minister seen on the Awatere Bridge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb5954e6f9ce43abb3f68d0951088b8b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, great question!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e1d4d6d422e4237b496d0252b3839aa\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question, because I happened to see a report, which I am sure Colin King has seen as well, in the Marlborough Express following a visit by Dr Brash to Marlborough. He made a speech to the Marlborough Chamber of Commerce, and said: \u201CIt\u2019s unacceptable to have a one-lane bridge on State Highway 1 and I\u2019m going to work towards its replacement.\u201D Well, I say to Dr Brash that it is too late; the bridge is almost finished. And he is going to work towards its replacement? I need to ask Dr Brash what he is going to do. Will he dig some holes? Will he put a plank on the bridge? I tell the member that if he is serious about helping the people of Marlborough, he ought to become better informed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad458b1efdff4029b9673d6c06d2abbb\u0022\u003EGeneral Practitioners\u2014Shortages\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b35f6d4506b42c4b50a9b143fdd9610\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his comments to July\u2019s rural health conference in Dunedin that claims of a general practitioner crisis were \u201Cexaggerated\u201D and that he was \u201Csick of the rural GP crisis syndrome\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022294d9009653f4bc6a6026c1ee10157c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022294d9009653f4bc6a6026c1ee10157c9\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I have said more than once that we need more general practitioners in New Zealand. I said in July, as I do now, that claims of crisis will make it harder to encourage younger doctors to become general practitioners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b09eb1afb84c4395bc369b0ce319786a\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: In a week when the Minister announced a U-turn and a back-down on elective surgery, then announced a U-turn and a back-down on his view that there is no crisis in rural general practice, what is it that made him change his mind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b76863b88fb4e5db28b1694508c55d3\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member needs to pay more attention. In December of 2005, just before Christmas, I signalled publicly that we would need to increase general practitioner training places. Then the Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners set about to find those training places. It has found them, and I was happy to announce last week that the details have been finalised and we can start training more general practitioners from next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873869819a6e4d978fe919a6d8b61430\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to ensure the stability of the general practice workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0eb68b6f354962a07646d7e62b079d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to our 7-year, $2.2 billion investment in primary health, which has seen the sustainability of general practices improve\u2014which the Government celebrates, I might say\u2014I announced last week that we would fund an additional 15 general practitioner training places a year. The places will be targeted for young doctors to gain experience in rural New Zealand, and has been welcomed by the College of General Practitioners. In addition, the clinical training agency has a review of general practitioner training under way, which should offer more advice about the next steps needed to further develop the general practitioner workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022392b98af661b4c599743f4ebbdc3bcf0\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that a rural general practice network survey shows that patients can be at risk because some rural general practitioners are so seriously sleep deprived, due to on-call demands, that they may be clinically unsafe; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c77ef29468f04dcf826a951c71d408c0\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Although the number of general practitioners in New Zealand is comparable with Australia but slightly lower, and comparable with Britain but slightly higher, there is disparity, region for region, where general practitioners are. There is no shortage of general practitioners in the eastern suburbs of Auckland, and in the southern part of the West Coast there have not been general practitioners for decades. That continues to be a matter of concern for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226efb9958204441028994f6edcd0c2bfe\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s U-turns and denials, has he seen the unprecedented open letter to him from the Rural GP Network, referring to his claims of a rural general practitioner crisis being exaggerated, where it criticises him for implying that New Zealand does not have a general practitioner shortage, and says: \u201CMinister, you are wrong. There is a problem that needs a solution. \u2026 Please don\u2019t try to wish our problems away.\u201D, and has the Minister considered what support he could give to rural New Zealand with the $768,000 that could make a difference if only Labour would pay it back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d84b4b0fe53495281c6631d9d9563a4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the member, I will just remind members that when they are asking questions they do not preface them with editorial comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022386510c4556a44cbb43f450b82698c32\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I would have appreciated you giving that advice to the House at the conclusion of Annette King\u2019s much-editorialised answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251cbc65e294b47b29ed32b09b6d79387\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please be seated. I am talking about questions, and the member knows exactly which Standing Order I am referring to. Of course the answer has to address the question, and it must actually relate to that question. However, I could not hear much of Annette King\u2019s answer, so I am sorry I cannot help you there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c14c97a5b7814189bf81322e235a7a90\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a matter of fact that in years gone by the number of general practitioner training places has been under-subscribed. It is now a matter of fact that they are over-subscribed because more young doctors want to become general practitioners. In December of last year the Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners advised the Government of that over-subscription and suggested an increase. An increase has been delivered and I am very proud about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c9d29251b0944dd8550029f386e83a2\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister of Health paid $1,000 a day to deal with the pressing issues in our health service, such as the elective services crisis and problems in the mental health, maternity, and the general practitioner workforce, yet we have a Minister of Health who spends his day spinning for the Government and coming up with U-turn after U-turn\u2014and will his next U-turn be that the Labour Government will, in fact, pay back the money that he said it would never pay back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1996c8425c4006adfb1ac89869f0e7\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of U-turns, it is difficult to see how a U-turn can have occurred when I have confirmed something that I first signalled in December 2005. However, the National Party\u2019s current health policy, thin though it is, contains the advice that it intends to strip hundreds of millions of dollars from primary health. I want to know when it will change that policy and do a U-turn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dca38419a654d17b90e48cfe63443f2\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister opened a Dunedin rural general practitioner conference and accused the Opposition of exaggerating and romanticising about a general practitioner crisis, was he referring to the stressful, sleep-depriving, poorly paid, on-call work that threatens general practitioners\u2019 family life, or to the patient-doctor ratios that see the Hokitika general practitioner Anna Dyzel caring for 5,500 patients on her own, or to the struggle that rural communities like Twizel, Waimate, Kurow, and Levin have to attract replacement general practitioners\u2014what is so romantic about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214d494cc4ea4ffb965c23b46e3d975f\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a matter of fact that that meeting the member refers to had no media at it. In fact, the only person who has spoken at length about it is the member who asked the question. I invite her to characterise my remarks fully and accurately because that is the honourable thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226950ce235a3649cf96c4b2a65836d8f1\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister admit what the Opposition has been saying for a year\u2014that the best way to encourage medical students and registrars to live and work in rural areas is to give them lengthy experience in rural general practice, and that that is the key to solving the rural GP crisis? Maybe this will be his next U-turn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e6f54d51e464c6eafc7e5bb63d925af\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The fact of the matter is that the Dunedin school of medicine has been pioneering in New Zealand rural practice. The Dunedin school of medicine is considering looking at longer experience in the undergraduate years\u2014this is a matter for tertiary education, not health, of course. My colleague the Minister for Tertiary Education has\u2014because he is not a person with reckless tax cuts on his mind\u2014asked for a review to see whether the medical schools of New Zealand are being adequately funded, and the results of that review will be made available to him presently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1aac471012c443bad4f1da85e596045\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article entitled \u201CAfter hours biggest issue for rural GPs\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ff9439c4f3a4750a9677304677bdba5\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article in GP Pulse entitled \u201CGP ratio \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003Eof 1 to 5,500 a tad high\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0ffdda5aeb4d12bc28210d19987675\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that article. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eabebc4a35d74855adba0a03c8591d02\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the New Zealand Rural After-Hours Primary Care Provider Survey: the impact of oncall on providers and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d012da3fe1d4b6eb290f0f4a09054c6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3f31b2428044630bd2cd1b99cfba628\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the New Zealand Rural After-Hours Primary Care Provider Survey: finding workable solutions to providing rural after-hours care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215adddc30a2b4298809b3661f14d4e8f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022314f7ab5c66144e5a40179153b53d1a9\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners Forecasting General Practitioner Workforce Capacity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e982bb3550b4d0fa1339baa13f8b26d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222baac4370e0c4537938e0c6e51c72c9b\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first shows Annette King as Opposition spokesperson on health saying there are not enough doctors in New Zealand, and that she would fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bc04ee459f641fd8714eb344090c712\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e0d01175ac410f89cdb45d660398a2\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the second report, which shows that the number of doctors dropped every year she was Minister of Health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223538abd0a2b4ea8a6e08235712fab1e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ad9a12421d94b4a9fbb562fb666de2a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022630ed68f2bda4040a02189d2183ac39f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022630ed68f2bda4040a02189d2183ac39f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table an article from the Marlborough Express entitled \u201CDon gets an ear bashing\u201D, which sets out that Don Brash was going to fix the Awatere Bridge even though it has already been built. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d76e3d467d514058a19788366ca2a4f2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224797fdf29858403d8e2239ff0df04872\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Marlborough Roads, which sets out that the Awatere Bridge commenced in February this year\u2014long before Don Brash went down to start the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022353b69d11e6e4bcf9653001afd2c3d0f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let me remind members, particularly some seated, I am afraid, in back rows, that when points of order are being made, there is no comment. That is the last warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c6812a8eb254e4d8c5a6638027467f7\u0022\u003EHealth and Fitness\u2014New Zealanders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f1641a5abb244e9a24811eccc71577f\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Sport and Recreation: What is the Government doing to preserve the Kiwi lifestyle by keeping New Zealanders fit and healthy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022362aa3524b2246db9b53e8ceaf76a6b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022362aa3524b2246db9b53e8ceaf76a6b8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Sport and Recreation):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has invested $67 million over 4 years to give New Zealand\u2019s young people and their families the tools to become active and healthy. The package includes the improvement of nutrition in schools and early childhood education services, school-based health promotion events, the creation of youth-focused websites to promote healthy eating and physical activity, the sponsorship of television and radio programmes that promote healthy choices, and Government departments leading by example in the promotion of healthy workplaces. The Labour-led Government is committed to giving young New Zealanders the best chance at a long and healthy future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022928e66ccff884158aab8c6b4f3f9b45a\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: What other initiatives is the Government undertaking to encourage New Zealanders to be more active? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234afe59e5260430cab31b8a77eeaec00\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The Push Play Nation campaign runs throughout October, culminating in Push Play Day on 3 November. This includes a challenge to find New Zealand\u2019s most active region. It will be, again, the occasion of challenges between parties and the media, in order to show who is more active. I think it is very important, because people around this building are like most New Zealanders, with more than 50 percent of us overweight or obese. Push Play Nation encourages everyone to incorporate regular physical activity into their daily routines, to prevent obesity from becoming an epidemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb20961d08b847c198d8e9936a99c24e\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with a recent submitter to the Health Committee, Dr Miles Williams, that the best chance of giving young New Zealanders a long and healthy future is to reduce the overwhelming pressures on them to eat unhealthy food, by changes such as prohibiting the advertising, marketing, and sponsorship of energy-dense foods directed at children, particularly in the school setting and at sports events, if we are to be successful in averting the looming health crisis and in giving young New Zealanders a good chance for a healthy life?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8d9e9dbf69472182e84ba7a1b2ebcb\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The short answer is \u201CNo\u201D. The reason I do not think that is the case is that I think all the informed evidence now is that taking a balanced approach is important. It is a matter of combining healthy, balanced eating\u2014absolute bans have been shown not to work\u2014and a good menu of physical activity, rather than being obsessed about one little area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223503ddc8495e4500a511e088bf4af2a7\u0022\u003EElection Advertising\u2014Government Response to Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022557048b22e054536b2242615f9ce1503\u0022\u003EDr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What steps, if any, will her Government take to address any findings or recommendations that may be made by the Controller and Auditor-General in his inquiry into election advertising?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8e06f4ba8d240d6a972fc3d7fc2bff1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8e06f4ba8d240d6a972fc3d7fc2bff1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: The Government will take whatever steps are appropriate\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228427008a72164c52af5cfe3ef4f3dad3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. If members wish to remain in this Chamber they will allow the member who is answering to be heard. Otherwise, they will leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220102f3c7c3734997bc2ebb401fac0af0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government will take whatever steps are appropriate when we have had the opportunity to properly consider the report, which was tabled approximately 32 minutes ago. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224165b58feb36401eb1232985cfd9a6e4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members of Speaker\u2019s ruling 23/8 that reference is not made to members who are not in the Chamber. Some members who made those comments have been here long enough to know that Speaker\u2019s ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd63341c63843e4ba532bb2e1ef43aa\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister, in light of the clear findings of the Controller and Auditor-General today, now do what she should have done in the first place and make a commitment to repay the more than three-quarters of a million dollars that was wrongly used?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245be107ca02d42c1be870cbd4fb27268\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister will respond when she has had a chance to consider the report. However, I do notice that the Controller\u2019s report rests heavily upon the legal opinion of the former Solicitor-General, and that that opinion is dissented from strongly by Mr Jack Hodder of Chapman Tripp. Where two of New Zealand\u2019s leading legal minds, Jack Hodder and Terence Arnold, disagree, there is clearly room for uncertainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da98ecd136d94713aae5c8bd9662ff1f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether it is the case that he has, or members have had, insufficient time to read the report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c500fa9d8fc0492ea8e9deaa54a47186\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a28b5b8635b444c9f08abf933558a6c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what would the member know about parliamentary rulings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b579af1cd074eee8d101d8b2a4f78df\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, both of you, please. Comments like that will provoke a reaction. Will the member just ask his question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4f037a4b7f48b9909c6ebb1d9e5cf5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Precisely! What would he know about parliamentary rulings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b6c45e101c943ccb2009145c68754e6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b54df64d05040cfa2840dd65272c270\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f53aacba6c9f4a1e867044cea1b3d2c4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that question is out of order, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfd3ae1fb49d4bf9a6fdc7379fb75f7a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500d2beea0c0428cbcb46f9f10c0a039\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, would you both sit down, please. I am on my feet. That question, asking about the Standing Orders, is obviously out of order. Would the member now please address his original question to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022486b64c65a83462fa972a98ac3a68131\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I hardly got started when a member of Parliament shouted out to you that it was out of order. With respect, he had not even heard what I was going to say, and you should have stopped him, rather than trying to rebuke me for countering him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261f184c586eb4f589bdcd91117566674\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please just ask his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9dbedab2a13425387bf70f9dcdec7bd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7761d23e42944a7b757b624e85d3b18\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I just want the member to ask his question. Is your point of order continuing on this point of order, or is it a new one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284bf5fda1a3a4ab4a18d7930e5a3804a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It is a serious point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229462c38584ef4a0c9451fe034eaea811\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a new point of order? I have ruled on the previous point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022870512bec8c147309859f0ad29430b96\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Mr Peters began his question by asking the Deputy Prime Minister. You will know that the question is set down for the Prime Minister, and the practice is, even though she is not present, that one addresses the question to the Prime Minister. In that regard, Mr Peters was incorrect, and we rightly pointed that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287bcadda4f994ebb9dd08048b9aa262e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please address his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b580cca635a440d2ba7ff88b7c88969a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Deputy Prime Minister, answering for the Prime Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ecefa6197cc419aac2363e637dbeb7d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just ask the question. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a57274bd9b457c85ce8cbeef3ce2c9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, listen to that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a94ce067e2440fe983557ddce1d6a1c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peters, please. Please be seated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a8ec93594a4157903bed2b31c6f0b9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, Madam Speaker. You get them to cooperate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022319a6ddaf3894866b184c966b39f6d58\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peters, you will not be remaining in this Chamber if another comment like that is made, or any other member makes such a comment. The primary question is addressed to the Prime Minister, so supplementary questions must be addressed to that Minister. Of course the Deputy Prime Minister is answering on her behalf. So would the member please now ask his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6b73d35248f4450838b7f903df8027d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223be9f84f757b4d36b18f742716a80da4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If that member wishes to remain in the Chamber, he will please refrain from such comments. Would the member please ask his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf7bd7f8ace47709b475db8b2fac446\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is it the case that the Government and other parties have had insufficient time to study the report\u2014a report that, I might add, Don Brash has not read, given that he said that it was clear in its findings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db375d18e5724f56ace4b8f8dbd43584\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I had noticed that, unlike myself, Dr Brash had not been reading the report but nevertheless asked a question on the basis of the report. The Prime Minister intends to read the information available before responding. She will respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241befd50b69d4bfc8cc9c82dd86d6e9d\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister regret, now that the Controller and Auditor-General has resisted her attempts to intimidate him, her previous statements that he had \u201Ca credibility problem\u201D, and that he should \u201Cgo back to the drawing board\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c0d6ab24604461698532c23a4db2b2b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I notice certain assertions in the report that are still contestable. They certainly relate to the legal interpretation on which the entire report is largely based. They also relate to the issue of the nature of the report made before the election in 2005, and I would be happy to discuss those on a later date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022193423b178704ec0a8655fe197601f4d\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister now regret her earlier decision to totally ignore demands for the unlawfully spent pledge card funds to be repaid, and does she wish to make any expression of regret or apology to the New Zealand public in this regard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022053998e2fec44c8baf78873df0d77351\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Party received a draft report\u2014or a number of draft reports, of course, to individual members\u2014and obviously until the final report, which was tabled today, is considered, a final response cannot be given. I do, however, emphasise to the member that if he cares to read the information just given to him, including the Speaker\u2019s report, repayment does not make the unlawful nature lawful. Validation is still required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ff4d2a1bc7247e9bc465ce59aafeccb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member seen this recommendation by the Auditor-General for the future operations of the Parliamentary Service, and I will read the first bullet point on page 54: \u201CEnsuring proposed advertising is checked (either by Service staff or some independent person) before expenditure is incurred to ensure that the proposed advertising is for a purpose within the scope of the Party and Member Support appropriations.\u201D, which is precisely what New Zealand First did on every occasion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1709a1bfdb40698bf69c59bc020bd6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is a correct quotation. But what, of course, the Controller and Auditor-General says in his report is that the Parliamentary Service has not properly applied the interpretation of the rules. However, that interpretation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca81e26bdd544b4a3295c14a35bb36c\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Oh someone else\u2019s fault!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc2396a50ac4cb49b89cc4fc0ae8b7e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is what the Auditor-General says in his report, if the member would just read it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e41d7edf5c44aa8aec03c850c88410\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Blame someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ac825733b9f48e48ec8b2696755d7e2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith should get a big-print version for himself. What, in fact, that also means is that again the Auditor-General is relying upon the previous Solicitor-General\u2019s legal opinion, which is heavily contestable, as Jack Hodder\u2019s legal opinion appended to the Speaker\u2019s report makes clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe8507471ef4409a9b0707f5fe4b885a\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029c68c915fd4a8e861fdc9e519bba43\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWho\u2019s he?\u201D, asks Gerry Brownlee about Jack Hodder! He is just one of this country\u2019s leading lawyers. Gerry Brownlee has never heard of him. I tell members that long after Gerry Brownlee is dead and gone, Jack Hodder will have some influence on this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287dc562e40114b4bafb044a81c04cafc\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Just a Government lackey!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce588da0c0042fdbb517ec243f8636b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is not what we say about people outside. Mr Brownlee has just called Jack Hodder a \u201CGovernment lackey\u201D. I suggest he talk to his colleague Chris Finlayson before he continues that kind of stupid commentary about a very, very good independent lawyer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d04fb2f82e624b9981a0f2200c6211cf\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We have a report in front of us produced by the Auditor-General, an Officer of Parliament. We have a report in front of us produced by you, the Speaker of the Parliament. We have had various other institutions of the State, including the Chief Electoral Officer, express opinions on this. Apparently we are to put it all aside because the Labour Party\u2019s own lawyer has a different view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e7d11a0c65d4078ac196033d58afdb1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member pleased be seated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2c0afc834c54dad94fc75aada5b2672\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Cullen should not come in here and have a go at me over that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdf5502790554ef1a55316272733f16c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff343909c60640b38bb8aec2015d013b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That is the sort of reason why his party is in trouble. Labour members are a bunch of thieves; pay it back!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c851c1027fb74ad398a58283c6464987\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee, please be seated. The essence of the point of order is about comments made by members of the public who are not in this Chamber to, in fact, defend themselves. I ask members to confine their comments in an appropriate way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222990b81c878b40519f72d1e28534ba19\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wish to withdraw and apologise for the comment I made suggesting that Mr Hodder was in some way in the pocket of the Labour Party. But I do point out that he is acting as the Government\u2019s lawyer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb8648d248d448628093a7ac012ec886\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You have made your point of order and that is sufficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df6850bc48e41baa87e6d98ee235cb4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: As the Government\u2019s lawyer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d56c049a74744bfcafc14361cb08edac\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, he is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022655ab74f2f674cc2a26f4a8c9f8c70f9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or even the Labour Party\u2019s lawyer, he was not acting on behalf of either. Mr Rennie has acted on behalf of the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d7713f2b00845edabafe075ee3d4f0a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. The Speaker hired legal advice, and that legal advice was Mr Hodder. He had nothing to do with any political party whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2691b4e22ee47e2ae95aabe905e8c88\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask you how you have allowed a member\u2014namely Gerry Brownlee\u2014to get up and carry on protesting, long after you were on your feet; that is something you will not allow from any other member of Parliament, yet you leave him in this House. I know that it is a stylised piece of behaviour for tonight\u2019s news, but it should not be tolerated in this House and I am asking you to address that issue now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec02a346c582432984d437553719bec3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member is quite right. I have been tolerant because Mr Brownlee is the Opposition leader in the House. But if that happens again when I am on my feet, I will ask Mr Brownlee to leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf435a567da40e2bed2091e1bc2ed72\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I was going to make this point before the member intervened. Towards the end of his outburst, the deputy leader of the National Party made an accusation that is clearly unparliamentary. Not only that, but because it rests upon the finding of unlawful expenditure, it also applies to Katherine Rich and a number of other members of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68c430c0040448599cec7d869c3d9b8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure what that is about. I did not hear, but did you make an unparliamentary statement, Mr Brownlee? If you did, please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f344db87b69477ca4abaca069977e1a\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I want your guidance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221302209a6dba4687917507345c5fcaf1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7ad830b2cc5459f8f1020b54f728a56\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We are clearly here today asking questions about a report that relates to funds that were quite obviously\u2014from reading those reports\u2014misused. Now the question that comes to mind is, if those funds were misused, and if Dr Cullen is saying the only way that the use of those funds can be made legal is by changing the law to retrospectively validate that expenditure, then is it unreasonable to suggest that it could be considered theft of taxpayer funds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa39c6629118466a8539eb454f655236\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, even if there were some virtue in the argument, it is still unparliamentary to use the term the member used. I point out also that it applies to other members, including members of Mr Brownlee\u2019s own party. I emphasise that if Mr Brownlee cares to read the reports, he will discover what I have already been advised by Treasury and Crown Law. That is, that repayment\u2014whether or not it occurs\u2014is irrelevant to the issue of the expenditure being unlawful in the first place, and validation has to occur; it is the only means of remedying the unlawfulness. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968dc2f7dc03469b9f6eff870eb8175b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes we do, and we could progress if you withdraw and apologise. That was an unparliamentary comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022537c7675e2fa4f4cbc760d7bd032f6f4\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That is my offer. I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether you could tell us, then, what standing in this argument Mr Jack Hodder has, given that the Government wants to hang its hat on him? Can I further table a document showing that the Government itself appointed Mr Terence Arnold to the bench of the Court of Appeal. He was in fact the author of the original report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214bd11fe5c9d427088f02c7721b73d01\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. [Interruption] Can I address the point of order; then you can have leave. Thank you. That is not a valid point of order, because you are drawing the Speaker into the debate. I suggest that people read both reports totally. You were asking leave, Mr Brownlee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e4186fb79504f1ab5eb2fef64dadc95\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I sought leave to table a document showing that the Labour Government appointed Terence Arnold, the author of the original report, to the bench of the Court of Appeal because it respected his legal experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022475ec1470b3f46579dc868abe81cea22\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227700298145a44a0a82fcffba78931bad\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has no objection to that. I made it clear that both the gentlemen I refer to are distinguished lawyers. Of course, it was Mr McCully, who attacked Terence Arnold\u2019s integrity before he was appointed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d080ed8465448abfffbcb503e3d9bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister whether he has read page 55 of the report, which in particular refers to part 5 of the Auditor-General\u2019s 2005 report, then at bullet points 627, 628, and 629 sets out a series of future circumstances, all of which are critical of this report because they are at variance with what else he says in the remainder of the report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022638b1d113a274cdea8a93a0b6b48da4b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have only just been able to get to that point, in response to the member\u2019s question. I have been a little busy on my feet in the last few moments, and I cannot actually read and answer questions at the same time, but I think what is said there is actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223be6901f123f4498acf5293824cb49c0\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You can spend taxpayers\u2019 money, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276acff4aa73a4a5bb5e1185c99d57ad8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can do what Lyndon Johnson used to say was important for a politician. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b052badd6fda44a2a9a43a43f00b236b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members are starting again, and I say to Mr Bennett that that is the last time. You have a loud voice so you are heard when you intervene. It is your last warning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375eb503e7934559a4f2f83bed37cc01\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, that seems to be the recommendation. It does seem to me to be at variance with the Auditor-General\u2019s claim that what he said in 2005 was absolutely clear. I think it is important that those rules are properly reviewed. That will take some time. It will also mean that any legislation will have to deal with the fact that currently considerable doubt is around a great deal of current Parliamentary Service expenditure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cab35f6be4d9401db6b33b31b346071d\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Here is my cheque\u2014where is Helen Clark\u2019s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223092f50092bd4ede9d66ec3cd6976f61\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think that in the member\u2019s case, Alan Gibbs may as well have signed it directly rather than going through the middleman. However, as I said before, the Prime Minister will respond when she has had time to consider the reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224212cf1c8749435f9e7582e5b9c2e222\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Mr Hide could not have asked a more simple or clear question. For the acting Prime Minister to stand up and suggest that somehow Mr Hide is influenced from outside this House seriously breaches the Standing Orders. He should withdraw, he should apologise, then he should answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0bb0eda9294104b6b63bba57d305d8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I did not suggest that the member was influenced from outside the House. I merely suggested that he receives donations. Is the member now saying that the National Party does not receive any donations from outside the House? That is a fairly extraordinary claim. However, I accept that the first part of the answer was out of order. I repeat the second part\u2014the Prime Minister will respond when she has had a chance to consider the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ad097354764240b9651be30363661d\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I just want to make it plain to the House that this is a cheque in my name for the money found by the Auditor-General to have been spent inappropriately, despite the best advice. What I want to know is when Helen Clark will front up with her money. When will she write a cheque for the money spent in her name inappropriately? I would like that question addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57f8c3854514cb092508285e0c0cd92\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. That was not a point of order. The Minister did address the question and, as members well know, there is no requirement for a yes or no answer to questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d8330f08b14b099b98b599f11bd3fe\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Prime Minister\u2019s response to the clear finding in the Auditor-General\u2019s report and the Crown Law opinion that because the use of her leader\u2019s budget to fund the pledge card was unlawful, the cost of the pledge card was an election expense, clearly placing the Labour Party in breach of the campaign spending cap in section 214B of the Electoral Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de30f1aee334c0581d470cf91dd23e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, the legal opinion on which that is based is highly contestable. However, the Labour Party will not be bothering to contest it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d48244fc-ceef-4ef5-9cee-851e4d439468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac2df2367bf64b5487f1ffec89f6e6e6\u0022\u003EDr Don Brash\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept the Auditor-General\u2019s finding that the Labour Party spent more than three-quarters of a million dollars illegally, and will she, as the highest elected official in the land, express confidence in Mr Kevin Brady as Auditor-General and in his findings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab1c1a392af64d15b8b02db2d537bbd1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, we do not accept that. We accept that that is the view of the Auditor-General, and that is the basis on which we have to act. We believe that the rules we operated within were such as to allow the expenditure that occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf2b576237e4b7eb76d7965069f27b1\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You make it plain in your report that you consider that all members must seriously consider paying back the money if confidence in Parliament is to be maintained. I happen to share that view with you, and I think that there are other parties in this House that do so also. What I would like\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288bed5df4867433e92a6ec3e9f5d6cb1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I thank the member, but the member\u2019s point of order is not a point of order. It is drawing the Speaker into the debate, and I suggest that members can all take an opportunity to read that report in full.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bf28fd053724d3a93d283c79f44c634\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am not wanting to draw you into the debate, at all. What I am interested to know is what action you will be taking in order to see\u2014this is an important point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227649f4782eeb479287aa462b9e06a595\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is drawing the Speaker into the debate, I am sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3db030614774937a112e46e81bcdc3d\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, you have written that you suggest that the money should be paid in order to maintain confidence in Parliament. I accept that. Is that the end of the matter for you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f2c60792344c10b621bfeed265f3c6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But if members read the whole report\u2014and this is why I will not accept any more points of order like this\u2014I will be reporting back to the House on the matter. So would members please read the report and not just make selective quotes from the report. There needs to be an opportunity for the whole of the reports to be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221be10c9848df4b318f9c2d1a6d243d84\u0022\u003EChildcare\u2014Eligibility for Assistance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3437ca07f90432ea9b9707b61b30211\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What steps has the Government taken to extend eligibility for childcare assistance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022febcd458345146f2bcf6a78804b2c455\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022febcd458345146f2bcf6a78804b2c455\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to advise the House that on Monday this week the income limits for eligibility for childcare assistance were increased by around $5,000, making approximately 1,250 families eligible for childcare assistance for the first time. In addition, approximately 3,900 families who are already receiving childcare assistance will automatically get a higher rate. More than 5,000 families now stand to benefit from increases to childcare and out-of-school care and recreation\u2014known as \u201COSCAR\u201D\u2014subsidies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb029952926459f98a69b635d29944c\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: Can he inform the House how many families are currently receiving childcare assistance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221303542765604ab48383f4e57766f126\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: At the end of August this year 34,900 families were receiving childcare assistance for over 43,000 children. I am pleased to inform the House that this uptake is greater than was forecast for that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022763e69d0d5894e73ae141100f13e89d2\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Has he considered, when extending the eligibility for childcare assistance, the need for respite care for kinship caregivers; if not, does he accept that the Government is at risk of taking advantage of grandparents who take on the burden of raising their grandchildren in their golden years, and that the Government should start to recognised those grandparents\u2019 contribution to society?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022100ab097431940068a4f58167df375e5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with that member\u2019s proposition. As she is aware, the Government is currently undergoing policy development work in line with the undertaking in last year\u2019s election manifesto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a233bc703953402c88d1a9dcd2b419c9\u0022\u003EController and Auditor-General\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c8226c8671047f5a00cb95da6f2e45b\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her response to question for oral answer No. 1 on 11 October 2006 that it is not her position to \u201Cexpress judgment one way or another\u201D when asked whether she had confidence in the Controller and Auditor-General?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb724d32f77a40e380f6d28d635a7a9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb724d32f77a40e380f6d28d635a7a9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34d30383192401fa7e865c6e1aeb87e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has she reconsidered, in the light of today\u2019s report, her position\u2014like her colleague Peter Dunne has done\u2014and why will she not now apologise for her earlier intemperate and misguided comments regarding the Auditor-General? Why is she digging in and saying she does not have confidence in him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b0c8d05f2834dadbbf866bb532355b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: She is not saying whether she has confidence in him, because it is a matter for Parliament. The Controller and Auditor-General is not an appointment of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c15b36a332a4b51a9d588ffc27e52f7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister recall seeing on page 30 of the drafts provided to her earlier that the Auditor-General makes it clear that by publishing his report in 2005 and warning parties to stay inside the rules in election year, he expected MPs and parliamentary parties to be especially careful in that area; and does she now regret her decision not to meet with the Auditor-General to discuss her spending proposals for the 2005 election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287d35bb334cf4e3396a4850fcf3a414a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: On the latter part of the question, I have no advice. I myself believe that the Controller and Auditor-General\u2019s interpretation of his own report is open to question. I do not think it is as clear as he now, in his 2006 report, makes out it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a099e7bc0e479bbfa2d33791ed2a67\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can we assume from the answer the Prime Minister gave earlier to Dr Brash that it is the intention of the Labour Party to advance validating legislation to make legal the election overspend and the spending of Parliamentary Service funds on electioneering, and does that mean that the Labour Party has no intention of paying the money back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de73881ab8fb4fc8b9fb81dc0e50028b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am now able to tell the member that the Labour Party will be paying the money back. I have been waiting for the Prime Minister to read the report and issue a response, which she has now done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bcddb1330f844e9aecd726f217407a2\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s not the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022017d5b886c41427989602f8d3ba5c5f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you have finally woken up to that! However, validating legislation is still required. If the member cares to read the Speaker\u2019s report\u2014and I have received very similar advice from both Treasury and Crown Law\u2014he will find that validation is required even if all the money is repaid by every party in the House. That is the only way of rendering the appropriation lawful\u2014and that covers the spending by Katherine Rich and others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228dfe9436f0c411eb2e123ec78ad7efc\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister concede that that answer is only technically correct, because, of course, the expenditure has already been incurred, and that there is an obligation on the Labour Party to pay the money back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ceeac9c2ac54982b89ba4904b98fa38\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is clear that the member was so stunned by the answer that he did not hear it. I will say this very slowly, for Mr Brownlee: the Labour Party\u2014or perhaps the \u201CLay-ba Par-tee\u201D, to use the National Party form\u2014should and will be paying the money back. This does not affect the need for validating legislation\u2014it remains unlawful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d45fce9df14da281c0cd7032116105\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do apologise for asking the same question twice. I was just shocked by the first answer but, on behalf of the taxpayer, also delighted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216af731aab634dd69aeffcdaa6028285\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. Is there another supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a146260939f41658a962d15ec3e5f5f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister accept the criticism\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0a6ed6a103648a38327701ef603fd55\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s one of their brighter ones!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d1d2c63145f47c89ef41725d362a4df\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc4f8a1765f8481fbf3c0b64ee78de2a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Interjections are permitted. It was not an unparliamentary remark\u2014unless the member objects, in which case I will ask the member to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb7cc71b3774b368add7479cf41e107\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept the criticism of the Auditor-General, when he says: \u201CI find it hard to accept that despite my 2005 Report and the message to be careful about advertising expenditure in the pre-election period, behaviour did not change.\u201D; if she does not accept that, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ade5b01c93442a98a209876ee295a3f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Labour Party and the Prime Minister do not accept that. The Auditor-General might have thought he was being clear; if he meant to be clear, he should have been clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2a0a72fd198475089013fa26646c94a\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Labour Party pay the money back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0b435e131c24b009e37455970de0be9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That question is not within the Minister\u2019s responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283039550bc1240b3b324377e10bdf830\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The two occasions today that Dr Cullen said the Labour Party would pay the money back were on the floor of this House. It is not an unreasonable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdbe535f5b8743998c491b9d7f624672\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the member that the remarks were made on the floor of the House. But the Minister has no ministerial responsibility for the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222a64f01859249a398f6df39cda60e07\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister been told by the leader of the Labour Party when the Labour Party intends to pay the money back, and will she pass that message on to the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222352b8ba7b194e5bbe16c4ed62418d56\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have no advice on that, but I am sure it will be very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002272765694bb8f4701813ed8983074b5f1\u0022\u003EEuropean Union\u2014Butter Import Rules\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf477b544ad4a38b79db0977efdf818\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Trade: What does the Minister estimate the likely annual revenue loss to this country will be if changes to the European Union butter import rules mean that Fonterra can no longer act as sole importer to the European Union for its products?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00225c2c876ab95d473dab0c8daa04c8a49f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c2c876ab95d473dab0c8daa04c8a49f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E The suspension of New Zealand butter imports to the European Union in July clearly put New Zealand\u2019s butter trade and revenue at risk. However, in working with officials we were able to first avoid disruption to the butter trade, then, through an interim arrangement, ensure that we could fill\u2014and we have filled\u2014our 2006 butter quota without loss of revenue to the New Zealand exporter. No decision or agreement, however, has yet been reached on rules that may apply in future years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218d9ad9ba43403c8d7227f4af756fe9\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister envisage any long-term loss of market share as a result of the European Union decision, and what steps, if any, are Government trade negotiators taking to avoid such a loss from occurring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e7952b170c14c58861ce27daa01ba2b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure it would be the intention of the European Commission, if it thought it could achieve it, to remove the quota rent from New Zealand. However, New Zealand is staunchly resisting that. The negotiators have been in Brussels in the last two weeks of last month. We have made it absolutely clear that our expectations are that although the European Court of Justice decision is upheld, that will not be at the expense of a contract negotiated between, and accepted in good faith by, the European Union and New Zealand back in 1995.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d485846ac70540518cf8cb05a3bb1c41\u0022\u003EElection Advertising \u2014Statements of Chief Electoral Officer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a29b84009f4a0eafb7fe2b6ea5504a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he agree with the statements of the Chief Electoral Officer that the Labour pledge card, and the A2-size pamphlet headed \u201CWorking together\u201D, \u201Cclearly encourages \u2026 voters to vote for the Labour Party\u201D and that \u201Cthe expenses of these publications should be included in your [Labour\u2019s] return of election expenses\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022e77dbf3162d0490ebd8568504029bbc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e77dbf3162d0490ebd8568504029bbc6\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The member\u2019s question appears to paraphrase a statement setting out a legal interpretation of the Chief Electoral Officer\u2014a statement that I have not received. As I have previously advised the House on a number of occasions, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on what are legal interpretations of the Chief Electoral Officer, made in the course of his duties under the Electoral Act 1993. Furthermore, I would not expect to receive copies of statements from the Chief Electoral Officer to any political party, including the Labour Party, because I do not have ministerial responsibility for political party expenditure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279ceb36655ed4e55a59bf73f28c8970f\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: In his capacity as the Minister overseeing the Electoral Act, is he aware that, following that opinion from the Chief Electoral Officer, the general secretary of the Labour Party wrote back to him agreeing, on 13 September 2005, to include the pledge card as an electoral expense that would be counted for the campaign spending limit, but after the election, on 3 October, wrote again to the Chief Electoral Officer saying that he had changed his mind and would not include the pledge card as an election expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c9e30825606438fb229f045cf2b7ba7\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I have pointed out to the member, it would be absolutely inappropriate for me to receive those communications between that statutory officer and political parties. Otherwise, I might equally have received copies of correspondence between the Chief Electoral Officer and the Exclusive Brethren on how it sought to avoid $1.2 million of an election advertising smear campaign on behalf of the National Party being counted in the National Party\u2019s election campaign expenditure. I did not receive that, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8af6336d2d84e69913453843a83c9eb\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Auditor-General\u2019s finding today\u2014that the Labour Party pledge card and brochure were electioneering\u2014confirms the opinion of the Chief Electoral Officer, the Solicitor-General, and Pete Hodgson, Labour\u2019s strategist, that Labour therefore breached the campaign spending limit, which is set down under section 214B of the Electoral Act, and that that is an act of corrupt practice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c216108682594f448554021c02d6b8ae\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, I have not read the reports tabled in this House today. Opportunity has not yet presented itself. If I had chosen to comment, having not read them, I might make the sort of silly mistake the member\u2019s colleague Mr Brownlee made, attacking a very senior legal practitioner who was part of one of those reports. The member, who is so busily commenting on them, clearly had not read them. I have not read them, so, of course, I will not comment on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f3165ba6d44e95a58c8cf862550856\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member aware that the test of whether Labour\u2019s publications amount to electioneering, and therefore count for the campaign spending limit, is not reliant on the Auditor-General\u2019s report, but on well-known legal cases, such as the case against Reg Boorman in the Wairarapa in 1988, and Peters v Clarkson in Tauranga in 2005; and that that is how we know Labour breached the spending limit, because its publications breached the guidelines laid down by the court of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298794a11ad68471da69e3424207854f9\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: The member does not seem to be able to grasp that I, as Minister of Justice, do not have responsibility for individual party expenditure. Otherwise, I might equally be called on to explain, and account for, the National Party\u2019s overspend on its broadcasting activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f1fd77b9ad74fb9934c5a7700706a40\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that in respect of breaching section 214B of the Electoral Act, publications were authorised by Heather Simpson, and that she told the police she did not regard the pledge card as electioneering, because it was part of the 3-year publication plan, and does he believe that \u201Cplanning\u201D to break the law, means that one did not do it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d509c0080596449c826c845290fc6072\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am afraid it is not my responsibility to provide that member with free legal advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b49f9166bb494584b3883f8f892210a9\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister\u2019s view of an Electoral Act, which sets a limit on campaign spending, under section 214B\u2014[Interruption] I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think there were six interjections in the first sentence of my question. I am prepared to accept a reasonable level of interjection, but I think Parliament has a right to hear the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e70b32dae8b14521b4785de801fe14a0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would agree, but the same rule is also to apply to those who give the answer. All members in this Chamber are entitled to be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a13f566c46433fbf5a91fcb7df469d\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the Electoral Act, for which he is responsible, is effective when the Labour Party was able to break the campaign spending limit by over half a million dollars and get away with it, when Bob Clarkson went to court in 2005, and if he had gone over the limit, he would have been chucked out of Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972da36282b348aca9d25b5fe2d7a8fb\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I previously said, I do not have, and it is inappropriate for me to comment on, the legal interpretations of statutory officers, in my capacity. But I have informed the House previously, as I have informed select committees, that I do believe there is cause to have a good look at electoral law around the whole area of electoral expenses, donations, advertising, and broadcasting. And that work is well advanced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe09a591d73a43a8923b6dfdc95043f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: As Mr English has brought the question of Bob Clarkson to issue here, is the Minister aware that at the court Mr Clarkson denied knowledge of working with the Exclusive Brethren, yet just 3 weeks ago admitted he did?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa79a26407994a77995e8c99e3910b29\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that question is asking an opinion of the Minister on a matter that was raised, but I do not think the Minister has ministerial responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992d81a766d649d8b7ac1cc2e36f6c0a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I heard a very unparliamentary comment from the member for Hamilton East, which I think he should withdraw and apologise for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289883e95111e417cb6d34dd258ca868f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ec83988ce54dff841ec0dbe311d253\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f1c9fd81414277a6c03d49dcecf2fd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear what the member said, but would the member please\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e46465b1814f34a771cdbd45023131\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. What was the comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ede7834c305f4c049e9d7bb3cbd346a7\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: When Mr Peters was speaking I heard him yell out \u201Cliar\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e69bba732227473ea3f784ee26c65b13\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry but that is unparliamentary. [Interruption] It was Mr Clarkson who said \u201Cliar\u201D, was it? Members, please, whoever made that unparliamentary comment, which was obviously heard by members, would he or she please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a926e0e38504459280537a11e25e05fa\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I tell the truth, and he does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241f4849bdf1f48aa9ae01e324346a8e8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So you are calling the member a liar, and you are refusing to withdraw and apologise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022909c825c-6cf3-49bd-9c74-6df837480631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e411f0e4667f457682aafcc36935f9f0\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson\u003C/span\u003E: Definitely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133b7ce84b9a481c804d0a65b647b5b2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you please leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EBob Clarkson withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e009d62f1d4ffea69ed180e2562d1f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I stand by my statement that the member for Hamilton East also called out \u201Cliar\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227889df8b66d44606a5295542b49f7374\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member says he did not say that, I will take the member\u2019s word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022951556595a774ab3a20858781b227c96\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I did say that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa3da2aa3a74ba9afb37bed3e5c1f39\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member did say it. Would he then please withdraw and apologise. Before, the member said he did not say it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f84f91f7ad042a5ae6ce4be2c5c4b0c\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I never said I did not say it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264da0131a2624a079b1b64cb435f0418\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But you know that \u201Cliar\u201D is an unparliamentary word. [Interruption] Please be seated. I understand that the member is a new member. Would he please now withdraw and apologise for using an unparliamentary term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227332d601ae9b428e922490bddd71df05\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022188853339ffe4f3cab56abbc8450b881\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I would like to remind you of your earlier warning to that member, that he was on his last warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022933aaaf715ed4097959ae225196fe7d2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That member is a repeat offender, but he has withdrawn and apologised so perhaps for the benefit of the rest of the Chamber he could just hold his counsel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228adb2f9aeaaf41628f0d3807187a7d88\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister surprised that Winston Peters thought that if Bob Clarkson breached the electoral spending cap under section 214B, it was so serious that he had to take him to the High Court, but now he is busy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223336811b72e04f30a70d7493a100474e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is a ridiculous prefix to a question, about which the member knows nothing. Surely it is not within the purview of the Minister, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e843f61837db4608b8551af9419d6bcb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest that the member rephrase his question as a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f1df73917a342a4a533ed92c623dc3e\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I point out that the Minister is responsible for section 214B. There are, in fact, only three or four court cases regarding section 214B, and it is quite legitimate to ask him about the effectiveness of that section, given the behaviour of Mr Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219ef72eefadc4892995470284afe721b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Mark Burton has been asked a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d4518d8f8984ffa9887b74131aa094e\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I did not actually hear the question from the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d050e248f54c08a79538229707a746\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228abb7bf3195f41768f7ca15e3176553e\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the Electoral Act is effective, when Mr Peters took Bob Clarkson to court over the issue of whether Mr Clarkson had breached section 214B, but right now is supporting a Government that certainly did breach the section?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d41a3e4ac9b43b79ad4e10f375eeac2\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the matters surrounding the case of Mr Clarkson are among many of the reasons why the review of electoral law, particularly as it relates to electoral expenses, donations, advertising, and broadcasting, is required\u2014similarly as it applies to GST problems suffered by the National Party, and in particular the $1.2 million smear campaign funded in aid of the National Party during the last election campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e060d58a6f1447039803b40b2193ddf8\u0022\u003ERights of Indigenous Peoples\u2014Draft United Nations Declaration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223757be22e31447fa841e80e363098b51\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: What is the Government\u2019s position on the draft United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a88c0c41c93f40fdbfef9c540232efc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a88c0c41c93f40fdbfef9c540232efc9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The New Zealand Government cannot support the declaration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c7467045c814407b9c7559e31afd970\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government maintaining its opposition, particularly in response to article 3, the right to self-determination, as that right is a repeat of the same article in other human rights documents, and does not threaten New Zealand\u2019s State integrity, because the New Zealand situation in regard to its indigenous people does not fit the UN criteria for a lawful secession; if so, given this fact, how could he possibly justify not supporting that declaration, when from New Zealand\u2019s perspective there are very few issues for it to consider?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223370f33cecda41a8898ec22655e295ea\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I am not certain whether that was a question or a lame attempt at a legal opinion, but let me just say that New Zealand\u2019s longstanding position in negotiations on the declaration was that it had to satisfy several fundamental requirements. It had, amongst other things, to be consistent with international and New Zealand law and policy; protect the rights of all citizens; and safeguard territorial integrity and political unity, as well as the responsibility of democratically elected Governments to govern for the welfare of all their citizens. The declaration fails to meet these three imperatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aabcc2f586474a8f97982bc3821e88d8\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare. Does the Minister agree with the statement of the United Nations Secretary-General: \u201CFor far too long, indigenous peoples\u2019 lands have been taken away, their cultures denigrated or directly attacked, their languages and customs suppressed, their wisdom and traditional knowledge overlooked or exploited, and their sustainable ways of developing natural resources dismissed. Some have even faced the threat of extinction.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9eaa1e723bc4f45a61d740353e444b7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If one looks around the world, one can be less than satisfied\u2014in fact, greatly dissatisfied\u2014with developments over centuries, and, in some countries, even up until recent times. But New Zealand is not one of those countries. New Zealand is a country that, for example, in political terms has seen dramatic elevation of M\u0101ori representation in this Parliament. I am glad to have been part of that. In so many other areas New Zealand has made giant steps. I want to say, just in case people are arguing this point, that M\u0101ori were widely consulted from May 1997, under the then New Zealand First - National Government\u2014Interruption]\u2014quite rightly so; we started the process. There have been numerous\u2014[Interruption] Well, I do not know where the Chinese were, but if the member wants to throw up over them, that is fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bbdd95197cf4f31b6bf3674c9705fbc\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The question was whether the Minister agrees with the United Nations Secretary-General\u2019s statement. It was not about the policy of New Zealand First in 1997.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297cd880ed9044ab0af5649c619e35a0f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister was actually addressing that question until he went on a bit. Is the Minister finished?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb77f958c18e42c4ae1b316a3215488e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to say, as to the question, that of course I agree. No rational, sane person with an understanding of history\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227175ebe325eb41dcbe348f92352ba203\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: What about this Minister, though?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d314076410f4c0097ed61330691a3c1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014would not agree with substantial parts of the Secretary-General\u2019s comments. When I said rational and sane, that ruled out Rodney Hide, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022833e8244f6fc4fd6943a392fcb7c08f4\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government maintaining this negative and destructive stance on the draft declaration when, in fact, the States and the indigenous peoples who have been negotiating the agreement have come extremely close to consensus on almost all of the articles, bar just two or three, and support the draft, which is to go to the UN General Assembly later this year, and when it would be extremely embarrassing for New Zealand to be added to the hold-out countries, given the impacts and the difficulty that so many indigenous peoples face across the globe, and knowing that this declaration could be the only protection available to them\u2014yet New Zealand denies it to them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b65f2eafa664ab396c4a992aff4fa8f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind members that both questions and answers have to be succinct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c51115cf3ff4e3886955dd6a2ba76a5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: What the House has just been told by way of a question is not in any way exact, precise, or true. In fact, many of the 47 countries, in respect of the United Nations Human Rights Council vote, registered their disquiet nevertheless about aspects of the text. That is the reality. Precisely, New Zealand does not believe that this matter really addresses, in the way it should, the needs, issues, and interests of indigenous people around the world. That is why we have not gone along with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f22b6044ed5944ada04b477f476bd972\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the last answer, can the Minister confirm he has received advice that a number of the countries supporting the text have actually privately said they propose to ignore it, and that the New Zealand Government does not believe that is a principled position to take?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022921680cac57645f8b94632dc6549470f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, that is a fact. What we have are some countries that are just growing tired of the issue and allowing it to go ahead, even though they have expressed, now and then, their grave disquiet about its text. New Zealand has taken this issue very seriously; we do not bow down to criticism that we in this country have not stood up for the rights of indigenous people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cb70044cb724e35b15f25e600c9aec5\u0022\u003EElectricity\u2014Pricing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eff027f80f2c4c5dadac91784a1a46d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Why has the price of electricity increased by over 39 percent since Labour became the Government in 1999, and what changes in Government policy, if any, will be made to provide additional renewable energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002292128f7926324eb58149ead21753c553\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292128f7926324eb58149ead21753c553\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Because the so-called reforms of the previous National Government have not resulted in the decrease that residential users were promised at the time. In real terms\u2014that is, adjusted for inflation\u2014the increase over the last 7 years has averaged under 3 percent and totalled 18 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5fac0a03e8443dac0a6fee3326020c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207db7e1bd66949d1a1e4b66a3597e918\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is absolutely true\u2014in fact, I will repeat it for the benefit of the member, because it is true. In real terms\u2014that is, adjusted for inflation\u2014the increase over the last 7 years has averaged under 3 percent per annum and totalled 18 percent. Government proposals to improve electricity market arrangements in order to put downward pressure on prices will be announced with the New Zealand Energy Strategy. This strategy will incorporate a range of measures to support the development of additional renewable energy resources, including details of a previously signalled \u201Ccap and trade\u201D option. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac91a69815945a6b6eaf0407d2b6333\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason that New Zealanders have faced huge power price hikes not that this Government, through its electricity State-owned enterprises\u2014as noted yesterday\u2014has made a profit of over $1.1 billion, so that New Zealanders are being fleeced by this Government not just with high taxes but also with excessive power prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb7fbedf02b944fb8458f0e3242bb136\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb896fded18f4186bb66860aeb5e9766\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: When will the New Zealand Energy Strategy become public for consultation, and what will it achieve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233bca9832cb94bc88a42563cb0fe7d0d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The New Zealand Energy Strategy is expected to be released in draft next month, for consultation. I have no doubt that this strategy will provide New Zealand with a cost-effective, reliable, and environmentally sustainable energy system that New Zealanders will be proud of for decades to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229decd80981f2429fa84311c7b786b4b6\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister\u2019s view of today\u2019s High Court decision that the climate change effects of Mighty River Power\u2019s Marsden B coal-fired power station project may be considered in granting its consent\u2014a decision that overturns a previous Environment Court view\u2014and is he pleased that this should spell the end of new fossil fuel - burning energy projects in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207fbd90b153b48d5b6ba039f51e66b56\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have not read that decision, so I cannot comment upon it. But it has been made clear by the Government for some time that we prefer and promote renewable alternatives over more thermal generation, which produces greenhouse gas emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf0e6c3d842449abb17af96069ad624\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that previous answer, does the Minister agree that if technology relating to the storage of carbon dioxide was on stream, New Zealand would have the ability to turn our vast coal reserves into enough electricity to power New Zealand for over a thousand years at very reasonable cost; if so, what is the Government doing to assist research into developing carbon storage technology, to help provide for our future needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a493b760054743b5b42568b075ef41\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A couple of points there. I agree that if carbon capture and sequestration becomes cost-effective and proven technology, the world needs to look at adopting it. It is more important for the rest of the world than it is for New Zealand. The advice I have received is that our renewable alternatives are likely to be cheaper than the use of coal with carbon capture and sequestration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232702d0e8b084666aef33a3f4f43898c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the fact that the electricity companies owned by the Government doubled their profits to over $1.1 billion confirm the statement by Roy Hemmingway that the reason he was sacked was that he was an independent commissioner who was prepared to stand up against the Government State-owned enterprises in the interests of consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226386952ec3bc40fe96ec2e8cb5a0c654\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the answer is patently \u201CNo\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022207353be72cd41858754cd0622e663b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister noted in the annual report yesterday from Meridian Energy that it endorsed National\u2019s idea for a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D system for greenhouse gases, endorsed National\u2019s ideas for reform of the Resource Management Act, and endorsed National\u2019s ideas for transferable water permits; and now, having had New Zealand\u2019s largest electricity company endorse those three significant policy proposals from National, why does he not listen to National and accept that we have got it right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4f0e52ddfa464e97b3b1fffad48a84\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do note the comments that Dr Turner has made, and I agree with virtually all of them. I disagree with the National Party\u2019s characterisation of them as reflecting long-term National Party policy. Indeed, it is only in the last week that National has at long last signalled support for Government policy relating to price-based measures in the electricity sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205c72cb52f648dab58354e26ecb460b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister say that Dr Keith Turner is supporting the Government\u2019s policy, when Dr Turner specifically criticises the Resource Management Act in his annual report, saying that delays in the Project West Wind proposal have added $90 million to its costs, and advocating strongly for direct referral to the Environment Court, which National has long promoted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022446ae3aa3f5746168e456d39f58903f6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member over-simplifies. I also note from that report Dr Turner\u2019s express approval of the changes the Government has made to the National Government\u2019s prior electricity policy settings\u2014namely, the most recent amendments we have made to the Government policy statement, and to the section 26 notice to the Commerce Commission, both of which will encourage renewables. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8f14612e72486a8ba5a829f4fda9bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was quite specifically about Dr Turner\u2019s comments in respect of the Government\u2019s resource management policy and direct referral. There has been no comment at all on that, and the fact is that Project West Wind has gone up by $90 million in price as a consequence of delays. I ask the Minister to address Dr Turner\u2019s concern about the Government\u2019s resource management policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022602916612c74481789ca4e29c0eb499d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister wish to add anything? It is outside the question, although it was raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab52316ecdc64412ac4b1429881ad1a9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am very happy to, because I have the answer for Dr Smith. In respect of the pricing of the Project West Wind proposal, that price increase is caused by changes in exchange rates and steel prices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220251c95609514ad1827de51c7f5d8612\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Delays\u2014Dr Turner says delays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243bdad7c2c4f4a26b3d9ae539b434637\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not delays caused by the Resource Management Act processes. The delays that are encountered in consenting New Zealand power stations are no different from those experienced in most developed countries. The Resource Management Act is not the bugbear that the member would like to present it as; it is a necessary part of a developed country where we want to minimise environmental effects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acd9978da9d647938ac2fe2e2f92d5ce\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222073f1e7d09a4fe28491e8f3693fca36\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4270fe400854afab90b27d47c9a26fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4270fe400854afab90b27d47c9a26fd\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a transcript of the Minister of Health and Labour\u2019s strategist, Pete Hodgson, in which he was directly asked whether Labour would pay the money back, and he said \u201CNo, we won\u2019t be paying it back.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6af326ba62b41bda38026bd9af88a44\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de67acea038a4256b223ae3a361e7a94\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f88dfaa608f4b0b93bfeb37224d2f24\u0022\u003EElection Advertising\u2014Auditor-General\u2019s Report and Speaker\u2019s Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022f441a3bc9a494b62b499f112b513efa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f441a3bc9a494b62b499f112b513efa7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from Rodney Hide, seeking to debate under Standing Order 380 the Auditor-General\u2019s report on advertising expenditure, and the Speaker\u2019s response to the report. Standing Order 380 requires that the matter for debate be a particular case of recent occurrence and involve the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government. For there to be a particular case of recent occurrence, the event upon which an urgent debate is sought must be an event that has occurred before the House meets. The presentation of a paper at the commencement of a sitting does not give grounds for a debate at that sitting. This application is declined on that ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI must also point out to members that the reports that are the subject of the application do not involve the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government. The advertising expenditure in question is appropriated in Vote Parliamentary Service. The Parliamentary Service is not an instrument of executive government. The appropriations are made, in respect of each parliamentary party, for party and member support. They cover funding for the parliamentary parties to support their leaders\u2019 officers, research operations, whips\u2019 offices, and members\u2019 parliamentary operations. Ministers are not responsible as Ministers for that spending. The spending is incurred as members of a parliamentary party, not as Ministers. The Speaker is the responsible Minister for Vote Parliamentary Service. It is the Speaker who is answerable for the appropriations, not a Minister. Any future such application could be declined on that ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E This does not mean that the matter is not of sufficient importance to require the immediate attention of the House. It simply does not meet the requirements of the urgent debate procedure, the principal purpose of which is to hold the Government accountable for urgent and important matters for which it is responsible. I ask members to give consideration to facilitating the debating of the matter early next week, when members have had an opportunity to read and digest the reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0a89380b7e142479e68bf9aa79ae6af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0a89380b7e142479e68bf9aa79ae6af\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I just ask for a bit of further clarification on that matter. I think you are being very good in being quite specific about what your thinking will be, should you receive other requests subsequent to the tabling of the report today, but it would seem to me that if you follow the logic that you are apparently going to apply here, then this House would never have had a snap debate on the September 11 tragedy, for example, or on other numerous other incidents that have occurred internationally for which, clearly, the Government of New Zealand has no responsibility and carries no particular ability to affect the outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b20eb4adfda54e4b9d01791bf2e335aa\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member, and I say there are various methods, as I indicated in my statement, as to how debates in the House can be held.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221568dbe1f2b44417831ebe5276c8c294\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258a3566a5f164033a243fce311cc8b5b\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c65904a346074151b4acd27f72f9facb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c65904a346074151b4acd27f72f9facb\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Securities Amendment Bill, the Securities Markets Amendment Bill, the Takeovers Amendment Bill, and the Fair Trading Amendment Bill be now read a third time. These bills are designed to encourage investment in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets. They address three principal deficiencies in our securities markets laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EFirst, parts of our law are not as effective as they should be. Our insider trading rules have been overly complex. The Investment Advisers (Disclosure) Act fails to deliver meaningful information to consumers, and disclosures made by substantial securities holders are confusing. Second, other aspects of our law are out of step with international norms. This Government recognises that given the small size of our capital markets in global terms, there is a real investment cost if our regulation does not look like that expected around the world. Third, the regulators of our financial markets must have the tools to enforce the law effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis legislation tackles each of these issues. Its objective is to improve the confidence of investors, both here and overseas, in the integrity of New Zealand\u2019s capital markets. The bills do this by strengthening the regulatory framework in our securities, securities trading, and takeovers law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe main provisions of the bills include a new insider trading regime focused on the damage such conduct poses to the efficiency of, and confidence of investors in, financial markets; comprehensive prohibitions, for the first time in our law and consistent with international practice, against market manipulation and conduct creating a false impression of securities trading activity, price movement, or market information; simplification of the substantial security holder regime by requiring disclosure of relevant interests by class and for listed voting securities only; improvements to investment adviser and broker disclosure law by requiring important additional information to be disclosed to clients before giving advice and by making all disclosures mandatory\u2014also, the Securities Commission is given a public enforcement role in this area\u2014and, finally, a complete overhaul of the size and range of penalties and remedies available under securities and takeovers law aimed at deterring illegal behaviour and encouraging compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI tabled further changes to the Securities Legislation Bill by way of a Supplementary Order Paper in the Committee of the whole House stage, in response to issues raised by business after the bill was reported back from the Commerce Committee. Those changes picked up a number of minor amendments necessary to better target some provisions, ensure the efficacy of others, and correct minor errors in the bill. For example, amendments were made to ensure that capital market advisers are not caught by some of the insider trading or continuous disclosure provisions of the bill where they are legitimately advising their clients on their own activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI would like again to thank the Commerce Committee for its work on the legislation, and those who made submissions on it. I also thank all the officials, who worked extremely hard to get the legislation to this point, and it is a great credit to them that we now see the passage of this legislation. I would especially like to thank Kirstie Hewlett; I know it is unusual to name an official in the House, but Kirstie has gone beyond what would be expected of any official in her role as manager of the financial sector team at the Ministry of Economic Development. She coordinated the work programme that led to this legislation. She has incredibly high standing out there amongst the stakeholders, and I wish her well in her forthcoming work, which will be even more difficult than the work she has done for us. There is still a large amount of work being done by officials in that team, and they have done an excellent job on this legislation, under considerable pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis legislation is an important part of the Government\u2019s wider securities law reform programme. It creates the regulatory conditions for boosting investor confidence in participation, enhancing the integrity of our financial markets, and ultimately assisting economic development and economic transformation by increasing investment in New Zealand. I recommend the bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a57d70154da6427d91d58e9ba0174e64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a57d70154da6427d91d58e9ba0174e64\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the National Party I rise to support this omnibus legislation\u2014the Securities Amendment Bill, the Securities Markets Amendment Bill, the Takeovers Amendment Bill, and the Fair Trading Amendment Bill. I start by saying that I spent the better part of 20 years in the financial markets, so I feel I have at least some capacity to comment on some of these issues. Some of the things the Government is trying to achieve here have a degree of merit. There is no doubt that New Zealand requires very strong capital markets if we are to develop and grow as a country, and deliver the prosperity that I think all New Zealanders would want to enjoy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EIn a sense, the legislation is an important milestone in terms of taking New Zealand forward in this area, and that is because in the late 1980s New Zealand had a reputation\u2014maybe not necessarily warranted\u2014as being like the Wild West, and we relied very heavily on offshore capital markets. Yesterday the Government announced an $11.5 billion surplus. I think the public of New Zealand know that some of that money should be returned in the form of tax cuts. But what was really interesting was the scenario that the Government was really hogging the cash of hard-working New Zealanders. On the back of that, New Zealanders have borrowed an additional $60 billion in the last 6 years alone\u2014$40 billion in the last 3 years. That capital has come from offshore. We are the most indebted nation in the OECD in terms of our offshore borrowings. We are hugely reliant on them, and that is one of the very concerning matters about our 9.7 percent current account deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons why we really need confidence in our capital markets is that we rely very heavily on that capital. Interestingly enough, one slightly unique feature of our current account deficit is that it is heavily made up of an equity portion, as opposed to a debt portion. So in other words it sometimes reflects, as it has with the widening of the current account deficit recently, that returns in New Zealand have been greater. It shows just how reliant New Zealand is on foreign capital markets. So in that regard we kind of support this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make, if I may, is in relation to insider trading. New Zealand is dominated by a number of fairly large domestic financial services players. They are often owned offshore. For the sake of the House I will not bother naming those firms, but I can tell members that they already adopt global standards. I spent quite a large period of my time with Merrill Lynch. When Merrill Lynch operated in New Zealand, for instance, it adopted the global standard and that is the case today. I think the New Zealand public can take quite a high degree of confidence that, even without this legislation, there is already embedded in our systems some pretty strong stuff around the declaration of people who are trading, around directors\u2019 disclosure, and around the onus on advisers not to prejudice their firm. So I think we can take quite a lot of good faith from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing about this legislation, though\u2014and the point that I want to spend the rest of my time discussing\u2014is that when one looks to try to build confidence into the market, one sees it is incumbent on a number of players. It is incumbent on financial advisers, if one likes\u2014those who are out there giving financial advice\u2014that they do not interrupt or prejudice the New Zealand financial markets by somehow using information that is inappropriate and therefore give the market a bad name. It is hugely reliant on directors of companies who do have inside information that they do not act in a way that will obviously be not only outside the law but give New Zealand a bad name. It is also important that the Government plays its role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EOne might ask why that is important. Well, the Labour Government that was elected in 1999 has done tremendous damage to confidence in the New Zealand financial markets. It started with a Prime Minister who did not understand the issues of insider trading herself. The Government owns 82 percent of Air New Zealand, and the Prime Minister was so ignorant of the legislation that operates around this area that she did not know, when she told the people of New Zealand \u201Cdon\u2019t sell your shares\u201D, that that was a form of insider information and a form of tipping. She was ticked off for that. That was the first of a number of examples we saw where this Government was completely clueless when it came to securities legislation in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EA few months ago we saw an extension of that cumbersome and quite inappropriate behaviour when David Cunliffe, the Minister of Communications, went on to a Bloomberg newswire\u2014a wholesale news service\u2014and started giving a directive about what Telecom\u2019s dividend profile should be. This is the same man who was responsible for legislation that was being introduced to the House that could have involved the physical separation of Telecom. He went on to say that if Telecom did not act in the way that the Government liked, then he would deem that to be a pretty negative position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThat was a completely inappropriate action by a Minister of the Crown. But, maybe most interestingly of all, the Government decided for purely political reasons it would turn the largest company on the New Zealand stock market\u2014Telecom\u2014into its little political plaything. We are not arguing on this side of the House about whether local loop unbundling should occur. But the Prime Minister of this country took a very unusual step in giving Telecom, the largest company in New Zealand, a public kicking because she thought it might be a reasonably good way to shore up a couple of votes. Unfortunately, when she did that she wiped $3 billion worth of market capitalisation off that company\u2014$3 billion! It was a bit like: \u201CHow do you make a large company into a small company? Give it to Helen Clark to look after for a while.\u201D She wiped $3 billion off that company, and every New Zealander in the country paid for it. Every single New Zealander knows that Helen Clark cost them money. The reason is that one of the largest shareholders in Telecom, of course, is the New Zealand Superannuation Fund\u2014the people who are managing money on behalf of the taxpayers of New Zealand. So Helen Clark, for purely political gain, decided she would put the boot into Telecom because that made her feel good and she might win a few votes, and on the back of that it cost that company\u2019s market capitalisation $3 billion. It cost the hard-working taxpayers of New Zealand who have been saving for their retirement a whole lot of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EShe did one other very interesting thing when she did that, and it was done in a purely politically driven way. We have seen an exodus of offshore fund managers come to New Zealand with one simple message: \u201CWe are getting out of New Zealand. We are withdrawing our capital from New Zealand. The reason we are doing that is we don\u2019t understand the rules of the game out here anymore. We don\u2019t understand the regulatory environment and the way that\u2019s interpreted. We don\u2019t understand the situation where, on a Monday, the Government can give a policy directive as to what it wants to occur in terms of investment in lines companies, such as Vector\u2014something that sent the stock price of Vector up 10 percent\u2014and on the Wednesday it could be sent down 10 percent because the Commerce Commission then put it under price control.\u201D They do not understand why the Prime Minister of New Zealand thinks it is really good to wipe $3 billion worth of market capitalisation off the value of that company. They do not understand why the political process is one where the Prime Minister of New Zealand thinks the way to win votes is to get inside this kind of information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EThis legislation goes some way to improving the private sector and its involvement in this country. It will give more surety and confidence to the financial markets. But I predict that the confidence of the financial markets will never return under a Labour Government led by Helen Clark. It will never return under a woman who, herself, was an insider trader\u2014in my opinion\u2014when it came to the pledge card and the inappropriate use of $760,000 worth of taxpayers\u2019 money. It will never return under the standards set by a Labour Government. The only way confidence will come back into the financial markets is not with the changes National is supporting here today, but when a decent Government is elected by the people of New Zealand. That, I can assure you, Mr Speaker, will be happening sooner as opposed to later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022db4d5295055f4ee59ad398e11697a4d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db4d5295055f4ee59ad398e11697a4d2\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to this legislation\u2014unlike the previous speaker, John Key\u2014and wish to make a couple of comments in response. First of all, this omnibus legislation is intended to encourage investment in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets by strengthening the regulatory framework in our securities, securities trading, and takeovers laws. As a member of the Commerce Committee, which attended to this legislation, I have pleasure in bringing it back with amendments that have been unanimously supported by the parties around the select committee table. For all the previous speaker\u2019s opportunism and barely related cant, the legislation is an important part of the Government\u2019s securities law reform programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn addition to the comments made by the Minister, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, in her third reading speech, I say it is designed to ensure that regulation encourages an efficient and effective market for securities trading. It reduces transaction costs for trans-Tasman companies by aligning parts of our law more closely with Australia. It also enhances the integrity of New Zealand\u2019s financial markets by providing domestic and international investors with the assurance that our regulation in this area is consistent with international norms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe main provisions of this legislation are to do with insider trading definitions, prohibitions against market manipulation, substantial security holder disclosure, and declaration of contravention mechanisms. The amendments that the Commerce Committee has, as I have said, unanimously put forward in the report attached to this legislation are, in large measure, amendments that simply allow for consistency and for comprehensiveness of these provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis is good and modern omnibus legislation. It has been well served by the officials who have advised the select committee. I also congratulate the chair of the select committee, Katherine Rich, for her guidance of this legislation through the process. So, far from scoring cheap shots of dubious worth and even more dubious accuracy, I would rather stick to the content of this legislation and commend it to the House for passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022c979348834754a11b59a72d200b7dc58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c979348834754a11b59a72d200b7dc58\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E It is worth reiterating, in the interests of accuracy, that this afternoon we are debating the third readings of, in fact, four bills: the Securities Amendment Bill, the Securities Markets Amendment Bill, the Takeovers Amendment Bill, and the Fair Trading Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting things in this third reading debate is that both sides of this House agree with the purpose of this legislation. The aim of the legislation\u2014as I understand it from the work of the Commerce Committee\u2014is to inspire confidence in New Zealand\u2019s capital markets. When the Minister, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, spoke to the third reading just now, she said that the aim of the legislation is to encourage investment in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets. Naturally, National supports those objectives and there are a number of measures in these four bills that National supports, including issues relating to insider trading, disclosure requirements for advisers and brokers, enforcement procedures, and the penalties associated with insider trading. National naturally supports those measures in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI take up from where my very, very experienced colleague John Key left off. We in this Parliament have to understand\u2014and members of the Government need to understand\u2014that it is not just legislation that affects our capital markets and investment in this country. The legislation can be improved significantly and I believe this legislation we are debating this afternoon does improve our securities legislation. But the behaviour of the Government can have just as great an effect as the legislation, if not greater. My colleague John Key mentioned the Government\u2019s absolutely inept handling of the Telecom decisions\u2014the decisions surrounding its decision to unbundle the local loop\u2014and the profound impact that had on capital markets in New Zealand. Why would offshore investors look at investing in this country when they see a country where a Government is so ignorant of the realities of business investment that it does things that wipe $3 billion off one company? That company would obviously have had foreign shareholders in it. What are they going to do when they see a Government in New Zealand behave in that kind of way and just wipe $3 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E It is easy to say the words. It is easy to say \u201C$3 billion\u201D. I invite members to reflect on how much money that is\u2014$3 billion is $3,000 million. For every New Zealander, that is many, many, dollars just wiped off our capital markets through the inept handling of a Government policy decision. This legislation does not save people from that kind of inept Government behaviour, wiping billions off New Zealand\u2019s capital markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIf that was an isolated incident, maybe one could say that these things happen from time to time. But it was not. The way in which the Labour Government handled the Air New Zealand fiasco was an absolute disaster, and showed the absolute incompetence of the Minister of Finance when it came to dealing with capital markets and major business in this country. It seemed to me to be Dr Michael Cullen\u2019s personal decision not to accept the Singapore Airlines deal on Air New Zealand. He thought a better deal was out there somewhere, and he kept Singapore Airlines at bay for weeks as the capital value of Air New Zealand plummeted. A lot of foreign investors had shareholdings in Ansett as part of the joint Air New Zealand - Ansett operation. I happened to be in Australia not long after that, and I heard comments by Australian investors in Ansett asking what kind of mickey mouse markets and Government we had in New Zealand that would allow that kind of thing to happen. A tremendous, highly respected international investor wanted to buy a greater shareholding in the Air New Zealand - Ansett conglomerate, which would have saved the capital market value of that airline. Instead, Dr Cullen said: \u201CNo, no, we don\u2019t want that.\u201D, and caused massive loss of capital value. So there are two examples\u2014the Telecom fiasco and the Air New Zealand fiasco\u2014that just destroyed confidence in New Zealand\u2019s capital markets. It has nothing to do with this legislation; it is the inept behaviour of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAnother example is the recent sacking of the electricity commissioner. The Government did not like the fact that the electricity commissioner had sufficient integrity not to be manipulated by this Government. We saw that happen to a former Commissioner of Police when Helen Clark first came to power. Helen Clark, the new Prime Minister of New Zealand, knew she could not manipulate Commissioner Peter Doone, so she knifed him the back. And, my word, since then the performance of the New Zealand Police, at least at a high level, has caused many concerns around New Zealand in terms of some of the decision making in respect of the breaches of the law by this Labour Government. So we have that example too of when the Government\u2019s behaviour has, again, lost confidence in our markets. Obviously the electricity market is hugely important, but the Government just sacked the commissioner because it found that it could not manipulate him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAnother very interesting case currently before this Parliament is the Government\u2019s decisions on the taxation of international shares\u2014international equities\u2014by investors in New Zealand. That legislation will have a profound effect on our markets in this country. The select committee has already heard evidence in public\u2014so I am not breaching any confidence\u2014from major fund managers in New Zealand, saying that if Labour not only goes ahead not just with the Taxation (Annual Rates, Savings Investment, and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill as introduced into Parliament but also backs down on the international provisions and goes with the new provisions put in front of the select committee by way of a letter and a press statement from the Ministers, then even with those changed provisions, investment funds in New Zealand will go offshore to Australia. We have been told that already investment funds are going offshore to Australia. So even the good provisions in these bills cannot stop the lack of confidence in New Zealand\u2019s investment and capital markets because of the ignorance and inept behaviour of this Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI want to come to another couple of matters. One of the bills that we are debating the third reading of this afternoon is the Fair Trading Amendment Bill. Where was the fair trading by the Labour Party when Helen Clark took taxpayers\u2019 money to the tune of over half a million dollars to pay for its electioneering? That was a trading issue. Where was the fair trading? What is the use of having this kind of legislation in New Zealand when the Government sets an example by taking\u2014I guess we are not allowed to use the word \u201Cstealing\u201D, but that is what it was\u2014taxpayers\u2019 money to pay for its election pledge card? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ELabour members say that it is OK because they did it at previous elections. I have been involved in this Parliament for 22 years. I do not know how many elections that is\u2014about eight, I think. It never entered my head during the 2002 election, or the one before, that Labour\u2019s pledge card, which was so central to its election campaigning, was paid for by taxpayers. That thought never entered my head, but on the day when the pledge card arrived in my letterbox at home last year I glanced at it and saw there was the parliamentary crest. Because the rules had changed to make matters more transparent, Labour could not hide its spending, and I saw that the New Zealand taxpayers had paid for that electioneering. My God! I was stunned. We are debating the Fair Trading Amendment Bill this afternoon, but nothing about that theft of taxpayers\u2019 money was fair trading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022dad1df6e58664dc6b511afea49f7cd79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dad1df6e58664dc6b511afea49f7cd79\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa i te Whare. I was telling a group of friends recently that one knows one is a M\u0101ori when one\u2019s people want one to be in Parliament and all one wants to do is to go home. But I also add that one knows one is in Parliament when one has to do research and give speeches on mind-numbing topics like this one, which uses such sexy language as \u201Ctakeovers\u201D, \u201Cfair trading\u201D, \u201Cmanagement banning orders\u201D, \u201Cpecuniary penalties for civil liability events\u201D, \u201Cmarket manipulation laws\u201D, \u201Ccollapses of finance companies\u201D, \u201Cstructurally weak capital markets\u201D, \u201Cdisclosure\u201D, and \u201Cdeceptive conduct\u201D. But that is the job, and we are here to do it as best we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the Securities Amendment Bill is to reform our country\u2019s securities laws, and, with language like that, it will take a lot to fix a dictionary of double-talk. On top of that, this bill is supposed to be read in conjunction with the Securities Markets Amendment Bill, the Takeovers Amendment Bill, and the Fair Trading Amendment Bill, so it is supposed to change the way that business is done with the Commerce Commission, the Securities Commission, and the Takeovers Panel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis group of bills also brings in what is called a standard of civil liability to deal with breaches of rules about contributory mortgages and the putting out of ads that include untrue statements. We have to laugh when we think that this particular legislation is coming up today, on the very same day that the Auditor-General\u2019s report comes to Parliament. Of course, we would also have to ask whether the distribution of Labour\u2019s 2005, and even its 2002, pledge card would breach those standards of civil liability. Would the fact that taxpayer money was spent on election advertising, without including the appropriate details, be considered an untrue statement? If so, who would be expected to own up to the civil liability and, again, who would be expected to cough up the $450,000 to repay the unlawful spending of taxpayer funds on a dodgy pledge card of party political promises? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAnother key principle in this legislation assumes that investors can have greater confidence in our securities markets, with these new, more effective laws. That is OK, except that the legislation is making changes in order to attract foreign investment to our shores. That can be a worry, because no matter how we dress it up, this country has a stink reputation in all the important places overseas at the moment. This Government has already been taken to task by the United Nations committee on the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. In fact, the New Zealand Government\u2019s response to the Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples did not once mention the words \u201Cindigenous\u201D, \u201CM\u0101ori\u201D, \u201Cwh\u0101nau\u201D, \u201Chap\u016B\u201D, \u201Ciwi\u201D, or \u201Ctangata whenua\u201D. It is as though we are not even here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ESo when we consider this legislation today, we have to consider also that this Government has said that it will not support the Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples when it comes before the United Nations General Assembly next month. The whole world will be there to see that happen and the great myth of New Zealand\u2019s racial harmony will go straight down the toilet. Again, in respect of this legislation, the Government has insisted that the Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples must be consistent with international and New Zealand law\u2014I guess the Government forgot about the Foreshore and Seabed Act\u2014and that the declaration must protect the rights of all citizens. I have to ask, how dumb is that? The Government wants a declaration on indigenous peoples that has to protect the rights of all citizens. We recognise the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which does not have a requirement to protect the rights of all citizens, and we recognise statements on the rights of women that do not include protection of the rights of all citizens, but when it comes to indigenous people, all of a sudden we have to include that protection. Responses like that weaken the text and diminish the rights of indigenous peoples\u2014and the world has noticed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI refer to those issues because they impact on New Zealand\u2019s credibility in the international community. Respected international organisations like Amnesty International have condemned those activities as shameful, and it is a joke to think that we can repair that damage to our reputation by simply tinkering with the securities legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAll the fans of free markets reckon that opening up the country to unrestricted foreign investment will lead to enhanced economic growth, more jobs, and better living standards for all. That is a load of bulldust. I can remember, some years back, that Harley Davidson was being hammered in the market place in the US, losing out in motorbike sales to Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki. And what did Ronald Reagan do? Did he leave Harley Davidson to face the music in the free and open marketplace? Like hell he did! He whacked a massive tariff on Japanese bikes, so that Harley Davidson could survive. So when I hear all the rubbish that is said about free markets, I chuckle to myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAlthough the legislation makes securities and takeovers law less complicated, easier to enforce, and harder to avoid\u2014and that is all good\u2014we still have to be careful of foreign investment that compromises our security, our sovereignty, and our rangatiratanga. Foreign investment keeps going up every year, including the buying up of land in Aotearoa, which is a policy the M\u0101ori Party does not support. We also have to consider the security of our m\u0101tauranga\u2014our cultural and intellectual property\u2014and the need to protect that from the multinational rape and pillage brigade. I raise those issues in respect of the Securities Amendment Bill because the most important tool for the security and protection of such vital assets to our nation is, of course, the Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Along with that, we have the Wai 262 claim, which aims to protect M\u0101ori cultural and intellectual property rights in exactly the same way that indigenous peoples all around the world are using intellectual property rights, laws, and international agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe whole notion of free trade and the exploitation of indigenous knowledge that the Wai 262 claim is addressing also raises issues in relation to the Fair Trading Amendment Bill. The new bill deals with what is called \u201Cmisleading and deceptive conduct\u201D, \u201Cfalse representations\u201D, \u201Cunfair practices\u201D, and \u201Cthe importation of goods bearing false trade descriptions\u201D. As we head towards Halloween, I will highlight a case of misleading conduct impacting on M\u0101ori. The website for Halloween Town, a \u201Cone stop Halloween and horror headquarters\u201D, was advertising M\u0101ori tattoo kits online, with a picture of a full-face moko, but after complaints from people like Ng\u0101hihi O Te R\u0101 Bidois from the Waiariki Institute of Technology, the fake moko was pulled. We hope that this bill will make it even harder for Halloween freak shows to exploit M\u0101ori knowledge and taonga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E This legislation is also supposed to strengthen the laws on investment advisers, who will have to be more open to their clients\u2014again, a good idea. It is a bit like kaitiakitanga: accepting responsibility for those for whom we are guardians. Disclosure will help to protect people\u2019s interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EOne of the things I have heard from the Federation of M\u0101ori Authorities is that investment advice is a skill, and that financial education should be a key aspect of our learning. The need to understand savings and budgeting was also raised by Kathy Loveday of the Budget Advisory Service in relation to the KiwiSaver Bill. It is not a new idea, but it is certainly an idea worth promoting. Financial literacy is also something I have talked about earlier in this House. Ng\u0101i Tahu have an initiative called Whai Rawa to improve their people\u2019s financial management skills and enhance their financial security and independence. If wh\u0101nau had those financial literacy skills, then things like market integrity and market confidence might actually mean something to them, and we might see that knowledge translated into diversified investments beyond housing, properties, and land into other areas of the economy. In today\u2019s market a lot of people do not invest, not just because they do not have a lot of money but also because they just do not know how to invest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party supports the transparency and accountability of foreign investment, and it supports proper regulation and protecting the interests of New Zealand investors. In the interests of integrity and fair trade, and as a matter of principle, we will support this bill. Kia ora t\u0101taou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002201d6cc4e23a44416adc7fe2d68af9b10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201d6cc4e23a44416adc7fe2d68af9b10\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the third readings of the legislation. This legislation is designed to help build confidence in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets and, as a result, to encourage investment in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets by strengthening the regulatory framework that is embodied in securities and securities trading. The legislation first saw light on 14 December 2004\u2014some 2 years ago\u2014when the Hon Judith Tizard, who was then the Associate Minister of Commerce and is now the Minister with responsibility for Auckland Issues, addressed this Chamber with a sterling first reading speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe Securities Amendment Bill tightens the regulatory framework with the likes of clauses such as 3A, containing new section 17B, which allows the sharing of information between the Commerce Commission and the Securities Commission, and new section 55F, proposed to be inserted by clause 8, which increases the amount of pecuniary penalty under the Securities Act to $500,000 for an individual and up to $5 million for a body corporate. New sections 60A, 60B, and 60C, proposed to be inserted by clause 11, also tighten the regulatory framework. New section 60A allows the court to make management banning orders, new section 60B allows the management banning orders to be for a period of 10 years, and new section 60C allows the contravention of a management banning order to result in imprisonment for 3 years. So the bill brings some real teeth to securities legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EToday, however, I wish to argue that although the changes proposed to this legislation may strengthen the regulatory framework, this will do little to promote economic growth, and that recent announcements by this Government have done far more to create damage to investor confidence in our markets than this legislation will ever do to build confidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn July 1999 Helen Clark, in an address to the New Zealand Trade Centre, said: \u201CIn my lifetime our living standards have slipped from the third highest in the world to 25th today. We are in danger of slipping into the next range of nations like Estonia and Latvia in the sub-OECD grouping, which have never reached European living standards. We\u2019ve had those living standards, but we are losing them, and we will continue to unless we can keep our talent at home and create the conditions for rapid growth of new industries.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EPrior to that speech, in another speech, delivered to the New Zealand Employers Federation conference, Helen Clark said: \u201CLabour knows the economy now is more competitive, innovative, and dynamic than the economy of 10 years ago.\u201D In fact, she said: \u201CWe would go so far as to suggest that a large part of that is due to the changes made by the last Labour Government.\u201D She was, in fact, referring to the introduction of GST, the reduction of top marginal tax rates, and the privatisation of a number of New Zealand companies, including Telecom\u2014which I will speak about later. She must also have been referring to the labour liberalisation laws that had created a dynamic, competitive, and innovative economy that set the benchmark for solid growth through the late part of last century and the early part of this century. Michael Cullen agreed with the Prime Minister at that point. In his Budget 2001 speech he went so far as to say: \u201CWe need to set ourselves a goal of being back in the top half of the developed world in terms of per capita GDP\u2014a position we have not occupied since 1970.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, the Clark-Cullen Government has given up on that objective. In the face of the results of the recent October Monthly Economic Review from the Parliamentary Library, the only news of any merit is that unemployment has remained steady at 3.6 percent of the workforce. Of course, this overlooks the huge numbers that are now permanently registered on the sickness benefit and the invalids benefit. It ignores the fact that our workforce works the second-longest hours in the OECD, yet has productivity rates at the bottom of the scale. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe rest of the results are far less motivating. Economic growth is down from 3.1 percent to 1.9 percent. Inflation is up from 2.8 percent to 4 percent. The current account deficit is a whopping $3.1 billion above the $12.1 billion of last year, at $15.2 billion. Lastly, of those key statistics, interest rates are heading north, from 7.09 percent to 7.56 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWith that backdrop, one can understand why we do not hear Michael Cullen getting too fired up about his 2001 speech. I quote again. He said: \u201CWe need to set ourselves a goal of being back in the top half of the developed world in terms of per capita GDP\u2014a position we have not occupied since 1970.\u201D No, the Government has moved from the semantics about being in the top half of the OECD, to those of economic transformation, which is an inane description for an approach of \u201CBox on, keep our mates happy, and do nothing that will actually grow the economy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EOne of the items that conveniently falls into the economic transformation agenda\u2014one that will not really add one point of economic growth or ruffle too many feathers\u2014is the changes that are proposed in this new securities legislation. The objectives of the legislation are all about promoting confidence in the New Zealand sharemarket. The National Party agrees that promoting confidence in the New Zealand sharemarket is important, and it supports the legislation on that basis. However, the announcement of yesterday\u2019s $11.5 billion surplus must surely signal that the economy has the ability to handle tax cuts as one legislative item that will promote economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E Promoting confidence in the New Zealand sharemarket involves increasing the certainty for market participants in relation to the integrity of the market, and the mechanisms for implementing law. A number of factors can influence the level of confidence both in domestic and international investors. Strengthening the insider-trading regulatory regime is only one activity geared at achieving this aim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn saying that, I comment that we have experienced the unique situation in recent months of one of the biggest examples of market uncertainty in the history of the New Zealand sharemarket. The announcement of the unbundling of the local loop, and the messy way in which the announcement was leaked to the market, saw billions wiped off Telecom\u2019s share value and confidence in the New Zealand sharemarket go out of the window. On the one hand it is all very well bringing in new legislation such as this, which has the potential to improve the law around insider trading, to amend the disclosure regime required of substantial security holders, and to increase the disclosure requirements of investment advisers and brokers; but, on the other hand, it is not acceptable that foreign investors lose total confidence in the market because of this bumbling Government\u2019s handling of the Telecom announcement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EAs stated in an article in the Dominion Post of 19 August: \u201CThe regulators can\u2019t be allowed to think their actions are somehow detached from what goes on in the financial markets. Comments alone are capable of huge wealth creation\u2014and destruction.\u201D, as was the case with the Telecom announcement. \u201CIn May, the Government\u2019s announcement that it was to regulate Telecom pared $1 billion off the value of New Zealand\u2019s largest listed company in one day. Commerce Minister David Cunliffe\u2019s remarks to a journalist later that month that Telecom might need to cut its dividend lopped off another $275 million. And then there was Vector. On Monday, August 7, the Government made encouraging noises about how regulators needed to give greater consideration to incentives for infrastructure investment. Vector stock added $240 million in value on the Tuesday. A day later the Commerce Commission announced its intention to declare control of the electricity distribution services supplied by Vector. This knocked $300 million off the stock.\u201D As the Dominion Post quite rightly points out, this is \u201CRidiculous.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe biggest concern about all this was the comments around the international investment community\u2014and I quote the Dominion Post again, which stated that New Zealand is almost now \u201C \u2018finished\u2019 as a destination for international investors. The big overseas funds don\u2019t like uncertainty. Any market that delivers the kind of shocks seen in the Telecom and Vector share prices could be seen as too big a risk.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe point I make is that it is all very well to have this legislation coming through as part of the economic transformation agenda, but, to be honest, international markets will take very little notice of the legislation, compared with announcements such as that made by the good Minister of Telecommunications. It is all about reputation, security of investment, and a discount rate applied to investments in the New Zealand market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EDavid Cunliffe was reviewed by the Securities Commission over the way he handled the Telecom announcement. However, the commission was clear in pointing out: \u201CMinisters need to exercise caution when commenting on matters that might affect share prices.\u201D So in one breath, although legislation will improve the infrastructure around securities legislation, we, as a country, need to be very careful about the announcements we make to the financial markets, because if we are going to continue economic growth in this country, those kinds of announcements are particularly important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00223e400837f6494a0c84387fa6c49cb5cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e400837f6494a0c84387fa6c49cb5cf\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E This is important legislation, and in the first reading, second reading, and Committee stage, National has had a major input. The legislation has now been divided into four bills. It started as the Securities Legislation Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5890e09243448b6867732287a28faf5\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: He can read them out. That will take 3 minutes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1a7f4834f2f4f7cbb6baeefc48dba71\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the Minister in charge of the legislation interjecting. I would have thought she might be prepared to take a call on the third readings of these important bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ff4a12a44f640f686223d82d21da07e\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I did!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296fecba6d4504a4080e4adb2d9d09021\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, did you! It was so vague that I do not recall anything the Minister said. Maybe she would like to take another call, as other Labour members have not been prepared to take a call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e71a2818de3f4ce19917457a6bbfdb94\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They never do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267b28e52d2e04b5db96bc56a49f07cec\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: They never do, even though these are important bills. The Securities Amendment Bill, the Securities Markets Amendment Bill, the Takeovers Amendment Bill, and the Fair Trading Amendment Bill have been split from the original legislation. I want to take a short call to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc5de0f0da9b4f749e1a552b4cd5b6d4\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t do anything else!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5274e7cf1ad4c508fbc3578b4a31c4d\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister says I cannot think of anything else. I tell her that this legislation is about building confidence in the capital markets. It is about the mum and dad investors, and small investors, along with the institutional investors, who need to have confidence in the process and confidence in the capital markets. But this Government has been caught short, and in a number of areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAs my colleagues John Key, Lockwood Smith, and Chris Tremain said in their speeches, if we look at what happened with Telecom and the unbundling of the local loop, we see that $1 billion was wiped off the shares in 1 day! When the Minister of Communications tried to fudge things the following day, another $2 billion was wiped off the capital of Telecom. As John Key said, that affects every New Zealander, because many superannuation funds\u2014and, in fact, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund\u2014invest in Telecom. So when we are talking about confidence, reputation, and integrity in the market, we see a Government that has fallen short. Air New Zealand was mentioned by Dr Lockwood Smith and the opportunity for offshore investment\u2014an opportunity that was lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EI spoke about this legislation in the Committee stage. It was interesting that on the day we were talking about confidence in the markets, reputation, integrity of the process, what did the Government do? It fired the chair of the Electricity Commission, Mr Hemmingway. If the Government does not like something, it interferes in the process. That is what it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAlthough we are talking about and supporting the breakdown of this legislation into four bills, at the end of the day it is a matter of the public and its perception of whether there is confidence in the Government and whether the reputation of the markets can be sustained. National members would hope so. We have supported this legislation right through, and our speakers have crystallised and articulated those arguments that we believe are important for the markets in New Zealand. With that in mind, National will be supporting the third reading of this legislation. We want to make sure that the purpose of the legislation, to inspire confidence and to encourage investments, is its primary purpose. We are happy to support that process because it is important that New Zealand, as a trading country, has investments, that there is some integrity in the market, and that there is that transparency so that small investors\u2014be they mums and dads; be they the small investor or the institutional investor\u2014can have confidence in our capital markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eaf6302ce0d542208eb46762af6c23ae\u0022\u003EInsolvency Law Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eccbd396418242e5b06f44aba4dd44bc\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7d94766c12742c1b5acb18cbe79d616\u0022\u003EPart 1  Interpretation and scope\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022c624eca0416a46fbae6fe7265ed8a8c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c624eca0416a46fbae6fe7265ed8a8c2\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E As will be apparent from the material before members, National has some real difficulties with this bill. There is no doubt that it was well-intentioned legislation and I think it is always a tragedy when commercial legislation of some significance does not attract support across the Chamber. Clearly, it was intended that this legislation have that support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI simply note, in dealing with Part 1, that the concerns of National are set out in a minority report that appears in the commentary on the bill. It is noted there that National opposes the bill, and in saying that the bill is being touted as the first major review of company and personal insolvency law in four decades, those members of the National Party who participated in the deliberations of the Commerce Committee enter their reservations. Those reservations are substantially centred on the concept of voluntary administration, and we also have reservations in respect of the no-asset procedure. There will be an opportunity to talk on those two issues later in the context of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to reflect on why it was seen as necessary to change the title from \u201Cbankruptcy\u201D to \u201Cinsolvency\u201D. Bankruptcy has a very settled meaning\u2014a meaning that is well established in history\u2014and insolvency is somehow seen as a softer and in some sense a more kind word. Bankruptcy, which is of course what insolvency is, is a legally declared inability or an impairment of ability of an individual to pay his or her creditors. It can arise in two main ways. First of all, a declared state of bankruptcy can be requested by creditors, in an endeavour to recoup a portion of what they are owed, but in the overwhelming majority of cases, the bankruptcy is initiated by the bankrupt individual or organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI have said that this concept of insolvency has a long history. Without getting involved in that history to any great extent, it is interesting that in the Old Testament, Moses\u2019 laws prescribed one \u201Choly year\u201D that should take place every half a century when all debts were eliminated amongst the Jews, and all debt slaves were freed due to the heavenly command. Of course, in Ancient Greece, as the Minister in the chair, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, nodding wisely, will know, bankruptcy did not exist. If a father owed\u2014and since only locally born adult males could be citizens, it was fathers who were legal owners of property\u2014and he could not pay, his entire family of wife, children, and servants were forced into what was called debt slavery until the creditor recouped losses via their physical labour. Many city states in Ancient Greece limited debt slavery to a period of 5 years, and debt slaves had protection of life and limb, which regular slaves\u2014mostly war prisoners\u2014did not enjoy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EFinally, just on these historical matters, and I will be able to deal in greater substance with other parts of the bill at later calls, the word \u201Cbankruptcy\u201D is formed from the ancient Latin \u201Cbancus\u201D\u2014a bench or a table\u2014and \u201Cruptus\u201D, which means broken. A bank originally referred to a bench that the first bankers had in public places, in markets and fairs, on which they tolled their money and wrote their bills of exchange\u2014that type of activity. So when a banker failed, he \u201Cbroke his bank\u201D to advertise to the public that the person to whom the bank belonged was no longer in a position to continue his business. This practice was very frequent in Italy, and it is said that the term \u201Cbankrupt\u201D is derived from the Italian \u201Cbanca rotta\u201D\u2014a broken bench. But enough of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EPart 1 covers, in a preliminary way, some key provisions and I will turn to those now. First of all, clause 3 has interpretation provisions, and possibly of some relevance is the definition of \u201Ccurrent summary instalment order\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022db7c22d2ef4e45668ad0ffd6d269cb9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db7c22d2ef4e45668ad0ffd6d269cb9c\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to rise to speak to this Insolvency Law Reform Bill, and to have been on the Commerce Committee during the progress of this bill\u2014which the previous speaker was not. I would like to get to the point of the National Opposition\u2019s minority view on this bill, because there was much more unanimity on this bill around the select committee table than would be indicated by National\u2019s blanket opposition to the bill as it stands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere were two points on which National decided to oppose this bill just for the sake of it. One was to do with the issue of voluntary administration and it hinged around the creditor status of the Inland Revenue Department. This status means that when a company goes into liquidation or elects to go into a voluntary administration regime, the department has the first call upon the moneys owing. I will explain, in case members opposite do not understand the significance, just what that means in practical terms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the department\u2019s priority status is absolutely essential. If workers in a company that is going under are to receive the payments due to them, the department has a claim on PAYE, GST, child support payments, and other welfare payments that are due to it. It seems to me that it is right and proper to retain the department\u2019s creditor status in order to ensure that the moneys due\u2014as those moneys are\u2014are not misappropriated by companies and allowed to be used to pay for other things. We did hear examples of companies that have not paid PAYE, but have banked that money for 1, 2, or 5 years, and have used it to employ additional staff. That is not correct by any yardstick or measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThose were particular examples, but there is a general principle at issue as well\u2014that is, the department has entitlements that must be observed. When we looked into some of the examples, we found that the department could perhaps improve its processes. Even by its own admission it said it could improve its processes for extracting the entitlements that are due. So we tightened up provisions in this legislation to ensure that where payments due were defaulted on for two pay periods or more, they were then brought to the attention of the directors, so that the directors did not go on blindly with the default position and not pay the due entitlements. That is an example of a particular application of the department\u2019s creditor status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EBeyond that, and I alluded to this earlier, is the general principle of the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s creditor status. The department is required by law to make sure that it receives the entitlements due to it\u2014and that is the basis of the department\u2019s priority\u2014so there is no reason for the Opposition to oppose this bill on that count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbb3e5aedeac40f1a95c07a1a44429dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbb3e5aedeac40f1a95c07a1a44429dc\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking to the Insolvency Law Reform Bill, I would like to make some comments in rebuttal of the previous speaker\u2019s concentration on the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s status, and, in particular, the priority in relation to wages. The Inland Revenue Department\u2019s four-pronged priority status remains\u2014it is not just in relation to wages but also to GST and withholding taxes. It is interesting to note that the Law Commission report itself recommended abolition of this priority, yet for some reason the bill retains it. If we look at some of the criticisms made in commentary relating to the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s priority status, we see that they include such comments as: \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s decision to retain the Inland Revenue priority is out of step with Australia and the United Kingdom, offends the pari-passu principle and could be seen to incentivise inefficient tax collection. For these reasons alone, the decision to retain the Inland Revenue priority is a poor policy decision and should be revisited.\u201D Yet that seems to have been ignored in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EIt has been commented that the policy decision in relation to the Inland Revenue Department requires consideration because it conflicts with the goals of introducing a business rehabilitation regime and harmonising trans-Tasman business laws. Unless reconsidered, the Inland Revenue Department, voluntary administrators, and general unsecured creditors will have great difficulty in effectively implementing the new voluntary administration procedure. Some have said that while the Inland Revenue Department still has preference the voluntary administration will be a waste of time. One of the questions that has been raised is why an administrator would bust a gut to trade a company out of trouble just so that it can pay the Inland Revenue Department. In fact, one of the final verdicts on voluntary administration is that it will create a new dimension for the insolvency industry, but it will not be a panacea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe main problem with insolvency, as we all know, is that there is rarely enough money to pay all the creditors everything they are owed. Insolvency law provides a system that kicks into place in the event of financial failure, and if we look at why businesses or people become bankrupt or insolvent, or go into liquidation, we see that it is not all because of reckless or irresponsible trading. According to 2004-05 figures, about 3,000 people filed for bankruptcy that year. Of those, 15 percent attributed their bankruptcy to the excessive use of credit facilities, extravagance, gambling, or speculation; 35 percent to unemployment or loss of income; 10 percent to relationship breakdowns; another 10 percent to ill health or absence of health insurance; and the final 10 percent to adverse legal action or the incurring of liabilities due to giving personal guarantees as collateral for bank loans or failed businesses. Personal guarantees, as we well know, are often secured by way of collateral mortgages, and therefore such guarantors do not rank as unsecured creditors and do not have to line up in the queue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWith any financial failure there is only so much money to go around, and not all creditors will get their money back. Some are secured and are the lucky ones; others need to line up and get a proportion. Under this bill the new voluntary administration procedure is introduced, and this is one of the most significant reforms in the bill. It is not unlike the receivership provisions we have in existence at the moment. Some of the problems that often surround receiverships are the cost of those receiverships and the stigma attached to them. It is not unlikely that a stigma will also be attached to voluntary administration under this new regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EUnder the bill, when a company enters into voluntary administration an administrator is appointed to operate the company. Again, that is similar to a receiver under the existing receivership rules. The administrator reports to creditors and, at the end, holds a meeting of creditors to determine whether the company shall be liquidated, returned to the directors, or be entered into a restructuring plan. There are similarities with the receivership regime, but under this new bill the deed of company arrangement requires approval from 50 percent of creditors receiving 75 percent of the value of a company\u2019s debt. Effectively, this means that a creditor holding 26 percent of that debt can quite easily defeat that deed of company arrangement, which in effect defeats the liquidation. If the Inland Revenue Department, for example, were that creditor, then it would be able to defeat any plan for voluntary administration. As a preferred creditor, it is also able to receive the proceeds of liquidation before unsecured creditors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe Australian experience, which has been used as a comparison in many cases, indicates that most companies entering into the voluntary administration arrangement are in fact subsequently liquidated. However, the argument in favour of it is that it may provide a more orderly liquidation and the opportunity to negotiate with creditors. In theory, it allows the directors to refocus from, if you like, the firefighting to active business improvement, so that the company may then be able to trade out of its difficulties. But it is certainly not the panacea that the bill purports it to be. The Inland Revenue Department\u2019s four-pronged priority is certainly an issue we take issue with, and on that basis National is opposing this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EI would like to speak later in relation to the no-asset procedure scheme, but I am aware of the time restraints and I will let my colleagues take further calls on this part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00225adf5c113db943b5ac945503ff54df16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225adf5c113db943b5ac945503ff54df16\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Insolvency laws are fundamental to the efficient operation of the State and, indeed, they have been with us since time immemorial. Under the Roman law of the Twelve Tables creditors might, as a last resort, cut the debtor\u2019s body into pieces, each of them taking his or her proportionate share. Even among the Jews, whose legislation was of a comparatively humane character, the harshness of bankruptcy law was illustrated by the Old Testament story of the woman who sought the help of Elisha, saying: \u201CThy servant, my husband, is dead; \u2026 and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen.\u201D I am not suggesting that we have provisions like that in this legislation\u2014and indeed we do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Insolvency Law Reform Bill is a reform of the 1967 legislation, and let it be stated quite bluntly that, without doubt, insolvency law reform is much needed. Personal bankruptcy laws are currently set out in the 1967 Insolvency Act, and they were developed at a time when bankruptcy laws affected more the individual trader. But modern personal bankruptcy tends to be consumer debt - driven, and certainly this legislation recognises that shift in society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ECertain parts of the legislation, I think, are positive, but the bill founders for the reason that National speakers have said\u2014that is, that the centrepiece of the bill, as the minority report says, is voluntary administration. That is the real heart of the new legislation, and the voluntary administration scheme, which will replace, as the minority report says, the seldom-used compromise scheme\u2014and I know from my time in practice that it was very seldom used\u2014will not work, because of the issue of the priority status for the Inland Revenue Department. As the minority report says, unless the Government can address that issue, the voluntary administration scheme will be severely compromised. That is why we in the National Party are going to have to divide the Committee on those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThat is a shame because, as I said, there are some major amendments that are worthwhile. There is amendment of the voidable transaction provisions; amendment of the liquidation provisions of the Companies Act to counter perceived abuses since that Act was passed in 1993; introduction of rules and prohibitions on the use of phoenix companies; modernisation of the laws of personal insolvency\u2014and when we come to Part 2 on the procedure for declaring people bankrupt I will say something about what I think are useful improvements there; as my friend Ms Wilkinson also said, introduction of a no-asset procedure for individuals; and, what I find particularly interesting, concerning what I call the conflict of laws issues of bankruptcy, introduction of the model law on cross-border insolvency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut if National is to support the bill, the issue of the Inland Revenue Department priority will need to be addressed. I went back and looked at the Law Commission\u2019s 1999 paper, which dealt with some of these issues. In particular, the 1999 report dealt with priority debts in the distribution of insolvent estates. The Law Commission recommended that the priority given to the Inland Revenue Department should not remain. It recommended abolition of the priority for GST, customs duties, and levies under the Fisheries Act and Radiocommunications Act, and it recommended limiting the PAYE priority, but only to PAYE in respect of unpaid wages. It recommended that unpaid PAYE relating to previously paid wages should not have priority, and that the priority should be retained in certain limited circumstances. So the Law Commission was in favour of that. Moreover, New Zealand\u2019s decision to have this model of legislation is out of step with both Australia and the United Kingdom, countries with which we have very close legal and trading relationships. For reasons that I will develop later in the debate, this model offends the pari passu principle, and really, as I will say later, incentivises inefficient tax collection. So it is a poor policy decision. It needs to be revisited. There were opportunities during the select committee hearings to look at those issues, and they were not looked at. As a result of that, the legislation is flawed. The Inland Revenue Department\u2019s priority will severely erode the effectiveness of the new voluntary administration procedures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThose are preliminary comments; as we get into the substance of the parts, I can deal with some of those arguments in detail. But I say in closing that it is a shame that after 40 years\u2014when there is a major need for insolvency law reform because the business laws of our country need to be kept up to date\u2014and after all this time and all this work, a couple of provisions in this bill will render it inefficient and impractical law, and that is why National is opposing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00227665092bfaaf4b32949da9ee90da458a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227665092bfaaf4b32949da9ee90da458a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with pleasure to take a brief call on the Insolvency Law Reform Bill. I listened with interest to the previous speakers, Kate Wilkinson and Chris Finlayson, and I thank Chris very much for the history lesson around the earlier ways of solving insolvency difficulties. I am pleased that the legislation as proposed by the Labour Government does not include some of those more historic means of sorting out these problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI think it is a shame that National is in a position whereby it has to oppose this legislation. Law that has been on the book for such a considerable length of time clearly needs to be revised, and it is a pity, because a reasonable idea around voluntary administration has actually been corrupted by this legislation, which is basically incompetent. The legislation introduces voluntary administration, which is a process used widely around the rest of the world, but it will fail in this country because the submissions to the Commerce Committee have been largely ignored, despite the fact that the committee did not receive a lot of submissions\u2014there were 11 submissions only. I understand from National members on the select committee that they were significantly in support of the principle of voluntary administration but said that where it will fail is in the greed of the Government and the Minister of Finance in maintaining the priority status of the Inland Revenue Department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI think the Minister in the chair, Lianne Dalziel, should take a call in the Committee stage and tell us what other countries around the world have established insolvency legislation incorporating voluntary administration while still retaining the priority right of the revenue department of that country to get the first claws on the money. I would be grateful if the Minister would answer that question, because I suspect the legislation is before the House, with special preference being maintained for the Inland Revenue Department, for no other reason than the Minister of Finance being able to come in at question time and crow about a Budget surplus of $11.5 billion. Surpluses of that magnitude, it seems to me, are one good reason why, in this legislation, the Minister in charge, Lianne Dalziel, could have given thought to accepting the work of the select committee and the well-researched, well-regarded submissions received by the committee acknowledging that voluntary administration could work and, in fact, would work if the principle of priority status being given the Inland Revenue Department were removed. That is the major point that I want the Minister to take a call on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIt is all very well for the National members of Parliament to come in and work hard at opposing the bill in the Committee stage, but a Minister who either does not understand the legislation or just cannot be bothered answering the questions legitimately raised by National members is, frankly, not good enough. So I say to the Minister that she should give us a very simple answer to the questions I have raised. Which, of the countries where voluntary administration works, and works successfully, have maintained a preferential status for the revenue department of those countries? That is the essence of the debate. That is the reason the National Party finds itself having to oppose the legislation. It simply will not work practically or fairly, because of that preference being retained by the Inland Revenue Department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00226059650966684623917e11e234ec9ec0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226059650966684623917e11e234ec9ec0\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E As we debate this bill it is important to look at the history behind the legislation, which has been thoroughly exposed by some of our great members with legal minds, and also some of the reasons why one would want to have legislation such as this. When one puts such strength and urgency on the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s ability to retain first call on the money, the question must be raised that David Carter just raised: why would one want to do that? It is quite simple. The Government wants to retain these huge Budget surpluses so that in election year it can have a big spend-up to buy the votes of ordinary New Zealanders. It has done that before and it will do it again. This is just another example of the tax-and-spend Government we have here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut there is another reason the Government wants to build up finances: so that it can pay for its election campaigns. Today we have seen evidence of that in the Auditor-General\u2019s report. It is good that we have the former president of New Zealand First, Doug Woolerton, in the Chamber to make comments about the Government\u2019s spending. Look at this. New Zealand First took $90,540 in 2005 and $59,906 in 2006. A total of $150,446 of hard-working New Zealanders\u2019 money went to those guys so that they could sit in those cushy chairs. That is what this legislation is about. It is about raising money. It is about paying for their own election campaigns, and that is shocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84b149fc39a4b9a959b1200ffab5237\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It is corruption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce92ce9793a148f5815944ab97af5e07\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is corruption, corruption on a grand scale across the whole of that side of the Chamber. But when one has that corruption one has to look at the reality of what this bill actually means for individuals out there who are dealing with high credit. We have a Government that has provided an economy that has high interest rates and a high exchange rate. That has encouraged people to buy a lot of consumer goods\u2014all that increase in availability of credit. The student loan scheme is another example. It is teaching the wrong lessons to young New Zealanders about the availability of credit. Kiwibank will loan 100 percent of mortgages. Those kinds of things open credit availability for ordinary New Zealanders, and that is when people get into trouble, and that is when they need legislation that looks after them and looks after the companies and individuals who supply money to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIf one walks down the streets of New Zealand, these clothes traders are quite obvious\u2014basically, trucks that go around selling very expensive clothing in the poorest areas of our country. It is very difficult to see how a Government can allow that kind of increase in personal debt, and at the same time allow the Inland Revenue Department to have first preference over ordinary New Zealanders who have high debt levels. What have those New Zealanders got? They have a Government that looks after the Inland Revenue Department, and does not attack the high debt that gets those New Zealanders into trouble. If they did not have this high debt, they would not need legislation such as this. But, no, this Government is quite happy to let that happen, because it does not care about those people. It knows best. It knows so well that it does not even follow the international examples. It is willing to walk away from the Australian example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is why National members are opposed to this bill. There was the ability for this Government and this country to have taken on board some of the lessons learnt internationally\u2014lessons in regard to voluntary administration, and lessons that would enable all New Zealanders to work a way out of any problems they may encounter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa3c8238d36b4164ad162055085cc218\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please come back to clauses 3 to 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c50b9ffa2a0a4c64ba8dca88b142e01a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What clause is the member on? Tell us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200d8bd0f1da444daa76cecae3184aa4f\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Clause 3, \u201CInterpretation\u201D, clause 4, \u201CRights and powers under other Acts not affected\u201D, and clause 5, \u201CAct binds the Crown\u201D. Well, an Act binding the Crown! That would be an unusual thing in this Parliament, would it not? Imagine if those members were actually bound by something in legislation! They would just change the legislation. Why bind oneself; just go and write another one a year later! They do not need to be bound by legislation. I thank those members for allowing us to look at the binding of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eedcfe2def2c44e7989264928413f5b0\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Retrospective!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb6acde23cd64737a303831d422e2727\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, let us just do retrospective legislation. That will keep everyone happy. But do these guys want us to go through how the Act will bind the Crown? Clause 6 explains that corporations and other entities are not subject to this Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002285b46680461e4889a8e80f7e08fbb6f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285b46680461e4889a8e80f7e08fbb6f8\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to Part 1 of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill, but before I do that I will just outline the legislation that is the key reason why National is not supporting the voluntary administration regime. It is section 6A of the Taxation Administration Act, which makes it clear that it is the Commissioner of Inland Revenue\u2019s statutory duty to \u201C\u2026 collect over time the highest net revenue that is practicable within the law \u2026\u201D\u2014and Mr Woolerton might want to listen to that little clause again, because he obviously was not listening. It is section 6A of the Taxation Administration Act, which he probably has not taken much time to read during his time in Parliament. That is a very important point, because it sets the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s priority to collect, above all others, what is owed to it in terms of PAYE, GST, and various other things. Section 6A of that Act outlines the department\u2019s statutory obligations, which lie at the very heart of why National will vote against this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EVoluntary administration lies at the very heart of this bill. In fact, voluntary administration has been introduced under this bill in accordance with New Zealand\u2019s obligations\u2014and this may be news to Mr Cosgrove, as well\u2014under the 2000 Memorandum of Understanding on Coordination of Business Law. In a nutshell, National believes that voluntary administration has significant merit, but only under the right conditions, because it is only with the Inland Revenue Department having it on a level playing field with non-secured creditors that voluntary administration will work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E National believes that the retention of the Inland Revenue Department\u2019s priority status above unsecured creditors, coupled with the responsibility to collect over time the highest net revenue that is practicable within the law, will ensure that the department will be in favour of liquidation and recovery for itself as opposed to supporting voluntary administration. We believe that without the department\u2019s support, voluntary administration is doomed from the start, which is why we do not support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe minority view from National states: \u201CAll the submitters on [the voluntary administration] provision were unanimous in their view that unless the Government addresses the issue of the priority status for IRD, the voluntary administration scheme will be severely compromised.\u201D It goes on to state: \u201CWe do not believe that Parliament should pass another piece of redundant legislation when there is a groundswell of opinion from practitioners who believe that it will not work, without the removal of the Inland Revenue\u2019s priority status.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ELet us review some of the merits of voluntary administration. As I said to Mr Cosgrove, when I enlightened him on this legislation, voluntary administration was introduced under the 2000 Memorandum of Understanding on Coordination of Business Law. It aimed to replace the seldom-used compromise scheme already available to companies in financial distress. A lack of incentives to get a majority of creditors to consent to a compromise has been the reason for the lack of use of that part of the older legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EVoluntary administration was introduced in Australia in the early 1990s. It has had some degree of success there, largely because the Australian office of taxation has had its priority status reduced\u2014and we will talk about the reasons why that was able to happen over there later on. Many other jurisdictions have now introduced it. I think that is one of the reasons why we did not look at some of the other jurisdictions, such as the United Kingdom, where voluntary administration had been introduced without increasing director responsibility or liability, which is what happened in the Australian model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EVoluntary administration allows an insolvent company, the court, or secured creditors to put a company into voluntary administration and to appoint a voluntary administrator. While the company is under voluntary administration, there is a stay on creditor enforcement. I think that is a key point, because the voluntary administration process allows a business to trade out of a difficult position and gives it time to review its profitability and its ability to trade out, and to restructure its balance sheet and move on. The administrator manages the company, calls meetings of creditors, and develops a structuring plan on which creditors are able to vote. A majority of creditors determines whether the company is restructured\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2447919ad1e462fb7d8669f86150880\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2447919ad1e462fb7d8669f86150880\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002228426e6cec4348809582faee9c2ff480\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 5; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000469\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 62 in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226527754dc9264efcab0ccab3ebb279f6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000470\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022042429519e9644f2be21af046fdf245d\u0022\u003EPart 2  Nature of bankruptcy, and process of being made bankrupt\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00229b37a939ad064c75b7755190dbd5391e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b37a939ad064c75b7755190dbd5391e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call to explain this part. It provides for the application by a debtor for his or her own adjudication and bankruptcy. Previously a debtor had to apply to the High Court for adjudication. Now the application will be made to the official assignee. As was the case before, the adjudication is automatic on the application being made. The only procedural requirement is that the debtor must first file a statement of affairs with the official assignee, which allows the official assignee to advise debtors of alternatives to bankruptcy and of their best option. The reason I am spelling it out is that this part is a very technical restatement apart from the change to that one aspect of the existing law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00229ffb91f7bbf144c891134222fa6c6825\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ffb91f7bbf144c891134222fa6c6825\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call on Part 2 of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill because, as the Minister in the chair, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, says, it deals with the essential nature of bankruptcy and the process for being made bankrupt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAlthough the National Party is opposing this bill for reasons we have already elaborated on, one of the good things about it is that it does away with old-fashioned terminology. Under the old regime one needed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4cf411a78f14daeae32000afb9ec036\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Would Winston have understood it, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa398cee4904461b944b20018cfaf49d\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I will explain the Winston hypothetical in a few seconds. Under the old regime one needed to petition the High Court if the bankruptcy notice was not complied with within a particular time. Now, of course, that terminology has gone and the High Court Rules will need to be amended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EPart 2 deals with what happens if someone fails to comply with a bankruptcy notice. Let me give the Committee this example. A person has proceedings struck out against a member of Parliament in a defamation case and incurs costs. The plaintiff is told to pay those costs, but refuses to pay them. Time goes by and the impoverished and excitable defendant gets upset about that. So how does the defendant go about recovering his or her costs? He serves a bankruptcy notice in accordance with clause 29 of this legislation. The bankruptcy notice obviously has to be in the required form, and it sets out the amount that the successful defendant in the defamation case wishes to recover from the plaintiff. If that notice is not complied with, then the actual bankruptcy proceedings may begin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of points on adjudication that I want to address briefly. The court has a discretion as to whether to adjudicate a person bankrupt. I refer to clause 36: \u201CThe Court may, at its discretion, adjudicate the debtor bankrupt \u2026\u201D. Indeed, the court may refuse to adjudicate in certain circumstances, and they are set out in clause 37. It is sometimes thought that bankruptcy will follow, simply because the notice has not been complied with. Well, that is wrong. I can recall at least one case where the court looked at the situation after the time for complying with the bankruptcy notice had expired and decided that it would not be just or equitable to declare the debtor bankrupt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI have one or two concerns about the debtor application procedure. It seems to me that it is almost too easy for a person to go into bankruptcy under this legislation. Clause 45 sets out the circumstances when a debtor may file an application. A debtor may file such an application with the assignee if he or she has combined debts of $1,000 or more, which is peanuts. I wonder whether the figure should be more substantial, particularly bearing in mind the costs to the Government of administering bankrupt estates, and the steps, for example, that the assignee must take after bankruptcy, which are set out in this part, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EOne or two changes have been made to the legislation as it has gone through the select committee. For example, clause 24(2) talks about execution process. As the majority report stated, the term \u201Ccharging order\u201D has been deleted because it is not a form of execution process. I wonder whether the Minister ought to check whether the terminology referred to in that clause will continue for very much longer\u2014writs of sale, possession, arrest, or sequestration\u2014because I have an idea that the High Court Rules Committee is completely redoing Part 6 of the High Court Rules dealing with execution. I have a feeling that some of that terminology will change. So if the terminology is going to change in the High Court Rules it should also be changed in this legislation, and a couple of Supplementary Order Papers may be required\u2014although I suppose it will be a bit too late to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EPart 2 does not contain anything too magical; it simply sets out the nature of bankruptcy and the process of being made bankrupt. Apart from some of the minor points I have made, I have no particular objection to this part, but, of course, we have overriding objections to the bill that colour the way we will look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca50c7635fe74c899b8ddd97cbb1e926\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca50c7635fe74c899b8ddd97cbb1e926\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I was not going to take a call, but I was again intrigued at the contribution made by Chris Finlayson, who talked about a member of Parliament being sued for defamation and having to move the case to the High Court and seek a strikeout\u2014with some success. I assume that Chris Finlayson was referring to my action involving the current Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, is whether there is any change to the way in which bankruptcy papers are served on the person from whom one is chasing money. In my particular case I had huge difficulty serving the bankruptcy papers on the Rt Hon Winston Peters. Of course, after this case was successfully struck out in the High Court, costs were awarded to me of about, from memory, $13,000-odd\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266ef988239d9475db58bf94f2ed1e73c\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, chicken feed!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f790fec96d4f33850f6566973914db\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it might be chicken feed if one double-dips in the way that Shane Jones does, but in my case it was quite a significant amount of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EDespite repeated attempts through solicitors to get Mr Peters to front up and pay his due bills, it became a matter whereby the only way we could make progress was to try to serve some bankruptcy papers on the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Rt Hon Winston Peters. The Minister may be interested to know that in my particular case it was quite difficult to do so, because the officer serving the papers asked where he lived in Wellington. We looked up the electoral roll and, of course, Winston Peters was not on the roll in Wellington. He appeared to be of no fixed abode, which made it quite difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245a16d84ee124ab2b3d97159c50e0b28\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Hummingbird.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a479f4ee5fc4078b50e5148a5db27b1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, I suggested that the guy go to Courtenay Place and just hang out there for a while and eventually he would find him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe long and the short of it was that on one occasion we were able to find him, when we knew he was going to have a beer at the Back Bencher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e96af1a7640426f964358217efa422f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Did that work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022077e421958684e209babc273600a2a8e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: It did work. Ultimately, after a lot of soul-searching and a lot of time\u2014and, no doubt, more cost\u2014we managed to catch up with the Rt Hon Winston Peters to serve bankruptcy papers on him as he walked into the Back Bencher on Molesworth Street.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EMy simple question to the Minister in the chair is whether this legislation in any way makes it easier to serve bankruptcy papers on any member of the public or any Minister of the Crown who owes money and repeatedly refuses to pay it. From my recent experience, when a person lives a fairly nomadic lifestyle\u2014as the Rt Hon Winston Peters does\u2014it becomes quite difficult to track that person down. So it is a relatively simple question for the Minister. She struggled to answer the question we put to her earlier, but in this case we hope she is a little better briefed on the legislation. We ask whether this legislation in any way changes the current provisions for the serving of bankruptcy papers on any person, particularly the Rt Hon Winston Peters when he does not pay his bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00226a117e794f0e4b20a6e68098a0425d2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a117e794f0e4b20a6e68098a0425d2b\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to take a call in the Committee stage of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill. Parts of this bill seem pretty reasonable. We have heard from Mr Finlayson that he agrees in principle with the part we are on to now, but some parts of it seem absolutely ridiculous. Let us talk a little about voluntary administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b4f255f5ea24eaaa86ced7779f24898\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not in this part. You can talk only about the part we\u2019re dealing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e28435f4374800851c23f8ac068a2f\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: It is great that the Minister in the chair, Lianne Dalziel, is keeping up. It is interesting that 27 submissions were received on this bill but those submissions were not actually heard, in essence. The considerations they made were not taken into account in this part, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe concern I have is about the priority status the Inland Revenue Department will have around\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ef9527f1e34d138f7c08365f24e512\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not this part\u2014wait until you get to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6ff915dbdd746978d461674f6b4bba7\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I am just pre-empting it, I say to the Minister. I am just warming up for that part. My concern is that the Inland Revenue Department will still have its hand out. With this priority status, it will still be there, clipping the ticket. In fact, when we look at the tax take of this Government, at $11.5 billion\u2014that is a \u201Cb\u201D, not an \u201Cm\u201D\u2014surely it would consider that for those individuals who are under financial pressure, the department should not be there, being the first cab off the rank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI will talk a little about the no-asset procedure. Giving individuals the ability to write off debt reduces down\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5fa9ec2dae467c9318ee9b4956678e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Clauses 7 to 100\u2014would the member speak on anything relating to those clauses, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207be949470d44a1cb0604a34bcdf06d2\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: They are all related to that matter, Mr Chairperson. Actually, the paramount concern is that this has been reduced down from 3 years to 12 months, and the write-off to $40,000, when, in fact, personal responsibility should be the essence. What will happen is that small businesses, those creditors\u2014the electricians and the plumbers\u2014will all be punished under this bill. Small businesses will be dealt a cruel blow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn speaking to Part 2, the interesting thing for those start-up businesses is that they are struggling under regulation and compliance costs now. It was interesting that the results of the survey\u2014which the Minister will know all about\u2014recently done by 1,400 businesses showed that the compliance costs for small businesses are $3,000 per employee. This is shocking, and it is causing small businesses a whole lot of unnecessary red tape. The big thing is that we need less regulation. My concern for the small businesses is that when debtors hang them out to dry on the 20th of the month and they are waiting for a cheque to come\u2014and I have been in that situation in a small business, when a truckload of bulls has been sent off to a meat company, and we wait and wait to see whether the cheque will come from the meat company\u2014it can be extremely nerve-wracking. Mr Roy, I am sure, has also been in that situation before. Debtors are a big concern for people in small businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWe have a bad culture in this country of spending beyond our needs. We have a low-growth economy and a high-spending Government. It is no wonder that individuals become bankrupt. It is interesting when I look at a statement made by Michael Harper, a partner with Chapman Tripp. He summarised it pretty well: \u201CHowever, what is most disappointing and ironic is that the most significant risk to the government ambition of introducing and implementing a successful rehabilitation procedure will be the government itself.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228821879b80fb45a0bd1a2a9d9ee392bd\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b294572841d453d94c07d6d2fd68fc8\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: So we have some concerns about this bill. For the reasons I have just alluded to\u2014in speaking to Part 2\u2014we will not be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6fa7a7c02244f7a89627251c98f484c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6fa7a7c02244f7a89627251c98f484c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just say that I was rather interested, while listening to the radio and not being in the Chamber, to find that one of the most critical issues concerning the National Party in respect of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill is the question of service. Apparently, a fellow colleague who is usually in this House at the same time that I am\u2014probably to no effect, whatsoever, mind you\u2014decided that he could not find his colleague, so he had to come to the launch of the Back Bencher exhibition, which I was launching, to serve notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt takes a certain type of character and a certain type of personality to think that the right thing to do is to attack a parliamentary colleague\u2014but not while he is in the House and can defend himself. Oh no! He waits until his colleague is not there. It is a sort of \u201Cambush \u2018em in the back\u201D tactic. He is the kind of person who would, if he were in the army, demand a job as a sniper a long way away from the action, where he could shoot from a position of safety, without ever having to confront the enemy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt takes a certain type of character to decide that despite the fact that his colleague is a very well-known New Zealander\u2014I might just say that humbly myself\u2014he could not find him in New Zealand. He had to come to the launch of the Back Bencher exhibition, which I was launching, because that was the only place he and his lawyers could serve notice on me. Does anybody in New Zealand believe that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4e8f23729334daaaf1674c5b678c9e6\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae9eb4df55c745e888bab13842d9b624\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, they do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022702697eac2ad4604b74f5ad4b1f710f4\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise of point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213076b530f8c49b98371c8206e174ade\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he cannot take it\u2014I knew that. He can dish it out, but he cannot take it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022159a7cedd4844d69b4474eb5da09384d\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to take it, but the member might also like to tell the Committee that parliamentary laws do not allow the service of such documents in the precincts of Parliament, which is where we would have wanted to do it if the member had allowed us to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ca06e0f68e45188ec0049f4396dae1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not have raised that point of order; it is a matter of debate. I say to the Rt Hon Winston Peters that we are debating Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222129e107d43a42c79c760fb765203e63\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I know, Mr Chairperson, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212468cf5f3324d55bd983aa938edf613\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I am still talking. I have allowed the run-in to that, because I know the member will get to it. I have allowed whatever the member is saying as being in rebuttal\u2014fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c204eada7bbc45d48b7f569237fa7404\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: In the circles in which I mix, we talk of nothing else, and that is why I am taking part in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHere is the point. Briefly there, for a while, every good New Zealander would have thought we had a problem with the issue of service and our insolvency laws. That, of course, is the last problem we have. We have problems in other areas, but the country yokel does not know that. And now David Carter tells me what the rules are in respect of the Parliamentary Service! I make it very clear, that every parliamentarian can waive his or her rights to not being served in this House, as I have done. In fact, when Russell McVeagh sued me, I went down to their offices and got the writ off them. Mind you, what happened to the case? They sued me for millions in a gagging writ\u2014[Interruption] One of Mr Carter\u2019s friends, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e37551b33fd140528905629552155953\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Which friends?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed6c22c729384a7188e03231a3ad25b2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Russell McVeagh\u2014they are friends of Mr Carter. Of course, a while ago Mr Carter yelled out: \u201CPay your bills!\u201D. Well, let me just tell members about this issue. Mr Carter thinks he is winning because I had to pay him $8,000, which I did happily. It was not a problem; it was a mere bagatelle\u2014I am only a poor country boy! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI will ask you a question, Mr Chairperson, because I know you are a man of the law. How much do you imagine Mr Carter has paid his lawyers so far? Who is winning here? I gave him $8,000; he paid his lawyers $95,000, so who is winning? It ain\u2019t Mr Carter! More important, let me tell members what happened in this huge matter on which he wanted service. He went to the court and said: \u201CYou know all those horrible things I said about Winston Peters when he was away from New Zealand? I didn\u2019t mean at all that he was a corrupt human being, in any way, shape, or form.\u201D Mr Carter is a big lion in the media and a lamb when he is faced with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb3eef96bff4202b858543b04198deb\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. This speech is way out of order. You have properly given to the Rt Hon Winston Peters an opportunity to make some short rebuttal comments. This has no relationship at all to Part 2. He is abusing the privilege of being a member of Parliament in not speaking to the part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2a11a446cf04189a3ca7de51e748ad8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for raising that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022425f7578efd3444f8ff4676ca1ef09f9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I distinctly heard Mr Peters draw to the Committee\u2019s attention the need for one to pay one\u2019s bills, and various things like that. If one cannot pay one\u2019s bills, that leads directly to the issue of insolvency. The member opposite, Dr Worth, is a lawyer; I would have expected him to make the connection. But I am happy to outline it for him, and I am sure Mr Peters is, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a426c221a26498fb42ea4d2029f367e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for helping me out there. The right honourable member was speaking in rebuttal, but he has touched on matters that are relevant to this part more than most members have done so far in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23ac18f434b49e5a60ef32dd2199e9e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I have to be frank here. I never thought for a moment that in all the halls of jurisprudence in this country the issue of service was what was concerning them. I never thought for a moment, given that there are lawyers in the National Party like Mr Worth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc42b692d8c4bf6bf175e42bf36aab9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0493e01aab4af5bb3ee479aa7cc3c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238082dca725d4f599bafc1da26ebf584\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d93964010624e908841e37d94975c19\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Dr Worth\u2014on a good day! I never thought for a moment that Dr Worth had appraised his party of the fact that this was the No. 1 issue concerning insolvency law reform. But, you see, this party is split three ways. That is why the C-team came along today and said: \u201CYou\u2019re qualified, Dr Worth. I know nothing, but I\u2019ll take this issue on and have a go in the Chamber.\u201D That is why I have responded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI am trying to address the issue of service, because apparently it is a huge issue. I want to make one little point though. The service was effected. There was no problem paying the bills. But it is amazing that someone who is so bold outside the House and all around Parliament should say\u2014in the conniving, sneaky way that bespeaks his whole professional life\u2014of all things, when he gets to court: \u201CI never meant any of the words I said about him. I cannot understand how it came about.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere is another little thing. It was reported to me that this man said about Gerry Brownlee: \u201CIf you\u2019re talking about the fat fella from Fendalton, forget it.\u201D That is what Mr Carter said recently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d55611d88af34e178a586398236776d2\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re joking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d280d151e68d43b48777546bdc43715e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes. He was asked about the leadership of the National Party, and he said: \u201CIf you\u2019re talking about the fat fella from Fendalton, forget it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca54893633bb48f2bfbe9b5dd233657d\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. You cannot allow the member to go on in this fashion. It was brought to your attention previously in the 5-minute speech that he is completely out of order. We are debating a bill\u2014quite specifically, what the bill is about. I ask that you instruct the member to be brought back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8bfc8e2378242c48bb5c299195394d3\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: In speaking to the point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eae4b4756414117a2503762cdb58c86\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c83c09269684d5fb0c7023506b3ca9d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: This is very important. This goes towards decorum in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7dc7f44ec13478fb7b2f3c3588eb82f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you trying to help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298ebf4114dfb46b994a8b3b8c104c86f\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I am, indeed. You know me. I just ask for your advice, given that Mr Peters told the Committee what Mr Carter said about his own colleague, which I will not repeat. It is unparliamentary for a member to say such a thing, and I take offence on behalf of Mr Brownlee. I call on Mr Carter to withdraw and apologise to Mr Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257335c3b7bb74bee9b8b3b47a384af76\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the Committee that I did not ever make those comments. Mr Peters cannot prove that, at all. I did not make those comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d9f9314c75d483b8628c2a9d4361410\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I know where we are on this matter. David Carter quite correctly tried to use examples in speaking to Part 2, but he did refer to another member of Parliament specifically for his example, and I think it is right that I allow the counterargument from Mr Peters, in the time that he has. I have done that, and he has referred many times to issues in Part 2. He is entitled to have time for a rebuttal, and he is doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5999cecdc384116a52236c3e2525606\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Part 2 is about the nature of bankruptcy and the process of being made bankrupt. Because that is not \u201Cservice\u201D; it is the process of being made bankrupt. I, for a long time in my legal career, have been very concerned about the total process of insolvency and some of the unfairness arising from it. I am bringing to the Committee\u2019s attention the character of a person who would have a go at a guy who is not in the Chamber, when he knows he could have waited or given me some notice and I would have been here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut let me say why I am not surprised. When that member was the National Party whip, whose duty it was to support his leader, he was the numbers man for Jenny Shipley against Jim Bolger. His whole career is filled with that sort of behaviour. That is why I mentioned his quotes to somebody inquiring about the National Party leadership, when he said: \u201CIf you\u2019re talking about the fat fellow from Fendalton, forget it!\u201D. That is what he is like. He is probably as nice as pie, in the caucus, to Gerry Brownlee. He is probably as nice as pie to everybody else. But he is a seething mass of discontent and backstabbing when he is away, in private. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2ee9e32ec424010a55f8101b13e4ead\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2ee9e32ec424010a55f8101b13e4ead\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Just while the Rt Hon Winston Peters is in the House, I have to say that his comments were a gross abuse of the Committee stage of a bill. But I want to deal with Part 2 of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill in a very precise way, and before doing that I will just make two quick preliminary comments. The first comment is that this particular bill merited close consideration by the Commerce Committee, and by a number of Labour MPs on that committee. They were Charles Chauvel, Shane Jones, Winnie Laban, Mahara Okeroa, and Maryan Street. As I look around this crowded debating chamber, I see those people remaining mute, not prepared to contribute to this legislation at all, leaving the hapless and helpless Minister trapped in the middle, unable to respond in a substantive way to some of the more significant points advanced. I think that that is a tragedy, because surely in those names that have been mentioned there was a faint asset reflective of intellectual power, but in the Committee stage it has been completely denied us. That is the first point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe second point I make is that this particular part, Part 2, has a number of subparts\u2014six altogether. Those subparts are: \u201CBankruptcy and its alternatives\u201D, \u201CProcess of being made bankrupt\u201D, \u201CAppointment of a receiver\u201D, \u201CAdjudication\u201D, \u201CWhat happens on adjudication\u201D, and \u201CRole of creditors\u201D. I condemn the Government for this method of legislative drafting, because by having one part and multiple subparts it starkly limits the length of Committee stage contributions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIn clause 8 of Part 2, the alternatives to bankruptcy are laid out, but only three are described\u2014inappropriately and inadequately, I would say. The three that are described are a proposal to creditors, paying creditors in instalments under a summary instalment order\u2014and we have seen how in the Part 1 definitions there has now been inserted a definition of a current summary instalment order\u2014and, finally, entry to the no-asset procedure, which is the subject of comment in National\u2019s minority report. But there are, of course, many other options, and I would like to highlight what those other options are, in the context of clause 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EFirstly, there must be sale of assets, because it is quite possible that people in financial difficulties might solve those difficulties by the sale of some of their assets, and money raised from the sale of assets can of course be used to pay their debts. The second possibility is that of budgeting\u2014of limiting one\u2019s outgoings to what one can afford. Establishing a budget might also identify existing expenses that can be reduced or eliminated, and the budget advisory service is available to provide assistance and support in that regard. Another possibility relates to a creditors\u2019 pool, which involves all of the debts being combined and then repaid by regular payments. Quite clearly, such a proposal must be agreed to by all the creditors involved, and it is normally administered by a third party such as a budget adviser, an accountant, or a financial adviser. Refinancing is another possibility. It might be possible to refinance current debts, perhaps using a mortgage broker, a banker, an accountant, or a solicitor, for suggestions on appropriate financing alternatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ESo there are these other possibilities that must be considered as we look at the Draconian step of bankruptcy, and the impact of bankruptcy on the interests of secured and unsecured creditors\u2014for it is very rarely the case that all the debts are repaid as a result of the formal processes proposed by the Insolvency Law Reform Bill, which were earlier the subject of action by the Bankruptcy Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00226efd83ec444141cca2bf4c2bc9b4b20b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226efd83ec444141cca2bf4c2bc9b4b20b\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to Part 2, \u201CNature of bankruptcy, and process of being made bankrupt\u201D. It is interesting that the New Zealand First leader came into the Chamber during the debate on this part. I am surprised that he left the Chamber, but he had obviously left Mr Woolerton in control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133e6a56fefc479f847b6d539257e291\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member cannot comment on a member\u2019s absence from the Chamber, or otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331dcf065c0f47dbb9df67acae6741a1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for raising that point. It is correct. I ask the member, please, to desist from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f41240e0279462bad1a32d1d4e49615\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: I will continue, and I will desist from referring to the absence of the member, who is no longer here. I will, perhaps, refer to New Zealand First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531d4188b4ec43688c3020405b7f8e5a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Do not compound it. I asked you to desist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0b7075df5d4b378abf0ee6226a49c6\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be a plonker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d361c7a91b496685826ae23340264a\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Cosgrove. I will move on to subpart 1, \u201CBankruptcy and its alternatives\u201D. We are talking here about two key parts\u2014clause 7, \u201CNature of bankruptcy\u201D, and clause 8, \u201CAlternatives to bankruptcy\u201D. The nature of bankruptcy clause talks about bankruptcy affecting the legal status of a person, and that it has important consequences. Indeed it does, such as the stigma that comes with bankruptcy. If someone becomes bankrupt, he or she effectively loses everything. This is the point I want to make to members on the other side, in relation to getting into business. There are 360,000-odd small businesses throughout this country, and it is the small-business people who go out there and put everything on the line to try to take this country forward, in terms of growing their lot. I think the statistics are that 90 percent of small businesses over a 5-year period struggle to stay in existence, and they will face potential bankruptcy. There is a lot of stigma attached to being bankrupt. People can lose everything\u2014their house; their relationship along the way, which is something we should all take into account in this instance; and their family; a whole heap of things\u2014and it is not good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI will move on to clause 8, \u201CAlternatives to bankruptcy\u201D. A debtor who is insolvent may have an alternative to bankruptcy, and three points are made in the clause: making a proposal to creditors, paying creditors in instalments under a summary instalment order, and entering the no-asset procedure. That might be something that Mr Woolerton may want to think about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252675457eeec48d6b2eef3d23bd4b5b4\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can\u2019t wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bd9f882feb6493b8e4a831213a12b8a\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: He might be interested in this. Given the $150,000 of debt that his party may face in the very near future, listening to this bankruptcy procedure section might be quite a good use of his time. When New Zealand First has to face fronting up with that $150,000, Mr Woolerton may have to consider some of the provisions in this legislation. There are three options that could be open to New Zealand First, and the first is making a proposal to its creditors. I guess that comes back to making a proposal to the taxpayers of New Zealand. That will be interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESecondly, New Zealand First could look at paying creditors in instalments, under a summary instalment order. What it could do is take the $150,000 and perhaps pay it over 15 months\u2014maybe by $10,000 a month. That might get it across the line of paying the money that should be paid back to the taxpayers of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe third option is entering the no-asset procedure. I am not aware of the balance sheets of New Zealand First or the Labour Party. Quite frankly, I do not have time to look at them. But the balance sheets of both parties would be something that anyone would look at, in considering any of those three procedures. The balance sheets will be a huge thing. I say to Mr Woolerton that it will be interesting to understand whether there is enough equity in the New Zealand First balance sheet to cope with a $150,000 debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn continuing with alternatives to bankruptcy, I now want to focus on entry to the no-asset procedure. I tell the member that the no-asset procedure is a 12-month procedure. It is an alternative to personal bankruptcy, which is probably quite a good thing, because in that particular situation New Zealand First could actually have a look at bankrupting the party, rather than personally bankrupting each and every one of its members. New Zealand First is sitting on\u2014what is it at the moment? One percent in the polls? Two? Not even that. I guess that is bankruptcy of a nature, in itself, is it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022 data-id=\u00228ed4473b3116424180ffabbb1a7a372b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ed4473b3116424180ffabbb1a7a372b\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00227a8e33d942244772a5e614521994c08c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a8e33d942244772a5e614521994c08c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairperson, you gave the Rt Hon Winston Peters a very liberal occasion on which to rebut my earlier arguments. I just want to take the opportunity of correcting three or four statements he made. Firstly, in response to an interjection from Doug Woolerton, he said there was a difference between a debt and a proposed liability. In my case, I was talking about a debt; it was costs awarded by the courts. I took every opportunity to get that money from Winston Peters, with a number of accounts being sent to him, but to no avail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EMr Peters then said that I had had every opportunity\u2014in fact, I think he used the words that I \u201Cdidn\u2019t have the guts\u201D\u2014to ring him up and say I had served the documents on him in Parliament. I suggest to Mr Peters that he becomes familiar with Standing Order 400(c), which says that such processes are not allowed to be carried out in the precincts of Parliament without the express permission of the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe third point I want to correct is that Mr Peters said the matter concerned around $8,000-odd. I cannot remember the exact figure but it was well in excess of $13,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275d31251db1641659c152e76d62df732\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I understood that you allowed Mr Peters a rebuttal, and now you are allowing a rebuttal of that rebuttal. I do not think that is right, and I just wanted to make that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d71e69489c849c0a750c40423eba4db\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: You have made it. I was just about to stop the member at his final point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5e712437a7d4d12b5220ddda8357707\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The final point I want to make is that subsequent to further legal action Mr Peters lost for a second occasion. The courts have invited me to prepare a list of costs and it will be presented to Mr Peters. I hope that on this occasion he will front up and pay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e42a7563ab224977b39e805bb3d8adc4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9247c8e322c4680b2990f18f83c3c0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9247c8e322c4680b2990f18f83c3c0b\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Committee has made good progress so far. I seek leave for the Committee to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ade083cdcba47f1971f02ff8ab95a73\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for me to report progress. Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061012d0ccca01fb8c44c29b3b944506394d9c000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"