"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8a1197aea584c5d9c09eb2b4e4ff628\u0022\u003EWednesday, 25 October 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228f92af1577f47d28f7eefe6816e38af\u0022\u003EWednesday, 25 October 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5495abb534748b287ccedd994e716f2\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b0666139c6c4911ad7a5813df07cffd\u0022\u003EParty Leaders\u2019 Staff\u2014Ministerial Responsibility\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae817ab462e44528a28ede5d101d3112\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae817ab462e44528a28ede5d101d3112\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek a considered ruling at another time from you on this matter. On 10 October 2006 Dr Brash questioned the Prime Minister on the actions of her chief of staff, Heather Simpson. Points of order followed, which discussed Ms Simpson\u2019s status and the capacity in which she acted. You ruled: \u201COf course Ministers are responsible for their staff; the capacity they may work in, however, is a different matter.\u201D The key phrase of your ruling is \u201Ccapacity they\u201D\u2014the staff\u2014\u201Cmay work in \u2026\u201D. At today\u2019s Government Administration Committee in public session, Ministerial Services advised that Ms Simpson is paid solely by Ministerial Services, and she is not paid from the Labour leader\u2019s parliamentary budget. This means, I would suggest to you, that Ms Simpson has only one capacity she may work in\u2014to relate to the point of your ruling. Therefore, the Prime Minister, as the responsible Minister, must answer questions relating to the performance of activities by her chief of staff, as Ms Simpson works only in that one capacity. I would appreciate your considered ruling on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022622ff842b5aa4702adcf64b10b4acca2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002205a2a722f046461cb4de97a382df59da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205a2a722f046461cb4de97a382df59da\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. In doing so I think it would be useful for the House to know whether your ruling will stand as a ruling of general principle\u2014that is, that any member of ministerial staff could claim to be acting in a different capacity when he or she does something\u2014or whether you inquired into the circumstances of this particular staff member. That is important so that the House will know whether your ruling is setting a precedent for all ministerial staff, or whether it is a ruling that applies only to the circumstances of Ms Heather Simpson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052a501eb8504c4bb0a6b0bcb32386a7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it will be a general ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b506441d0ac845f88f11305a17e1c478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b506441d0ac845f88f11305a17e1c478\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think it will be very helpful to have that ruling. Perhaps at the same time you might care to give us a ruling about whether staff employed in the leaders\u2019 offices of other parties can have questions asked about their activities, by way of written question to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16dc8e0a22e412690ff27b7f3608e3e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am happy to consider that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c2db6394e0c428bbaafe1d469d3b9f5\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228795fc41c1d0466eb674f6c91e9a6528\u0022\u003ECasino Legislation Voting Record\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dee892b37bb94e8bb4b6f8a0c490867b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dee892b37bb94e8bb4b6f8a0c490867b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, during question No. 12, Mr Williamson sought leave\u2014no doubt to challenge the veracity of what I had said to the House a little earlier\u2014to table a document. I notice that he has not tabled anything, so I seek leave to table the voting record on the legislation to introduce casinos into this country. It will show who is telling the truth\u2014Mr Williamson or me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022353331d2b1d04fcfa15a8495438a459f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022353331d2b1d04fcfa15a8495438a459f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If you check the record you will find very clearly that I made no comment about how Mr Peters had voted; I sought leave only to table his voting record. The reason I did not do it is that I spent nearly quarter of an hour scaling the heights on the ladders out in the lobbies trying to find it, but our Hansard goes back only until 1990.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1d27862588340e29ae7f31144f8f0a9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e469b2deb27a43ba97fb39d409c60898\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a53c78ac5b914938b1fed0ebf7049e07\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222129cedcd9f540e89f1a669c99b463a6\u0022\u003EInflation\u2014Policy Targets Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E1.\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1530d123f01446fad599ec38e53716c\u0022\u003E JOHN KEY (National\u2014Helensville)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Reserve Bank\u2019s interpretation of the policy targets agreement as \u201Crequiring CPI inflation to be comfortably within the 1 to 3 percent target band over the second half of a 3-year forecasting horizon.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00228bd9a689f6f34e37aa5ec8145e1a7181\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bd9a689f6f34e37aa5ec8145e1a7181\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E That interpretation is, in my view, consistent with the medium-term focus of the policy targets agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22d692076514e9ba23b80a04237a8ef\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister not think that that makes a mockery of the policy targets agreement, if adherence to the agreement is defined not by what actually takes place, but rather by the Reserve Bank\u2019s own forecast of what might take place; and, therefore, it does not actually matter whether inflation ever really gets between 1 and 3 percent, all that matters is that the bank forecasts that one day it will?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022524bcbce46654ca1a2d5753fbacf591c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is particularly silly. If the member would care to ask Dr Brash, under Dr Brash a policy targets agreement of 0 to 2 percent was interpreted as meaning 0.5 percent every quarter, which is utterly impossible. What the Reserve Bank does is to project out, all else being equal, what the inflation rate will be, and therefore it judges what monetary policy reaction it needs to have to bring back inflation within the target range.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272baae551adf41e787e8c05f91e576dc\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports of alternate fiscal settings that would make the job of the Reserve Bank more difficult?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a97dd74f529f4e2a9f0514b835d283c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen reports that advocate a net injection of up to $11.5 billion per annum of spending power into the economy, notwithstanding the current macroeconomic climate. I suggest that Mr Key talk to Dr Brash about the implications of that for monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b22b5ab70a5442eaa105c652cd5bebc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister, while we are talking about making a mockery of the policy targets agreement, who was it who between December 1994 and December 1996, as Governor of the Reserve Bank, had the policy targets agreement outside the band in 8 of the 12 months, and is he now leader of the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b94b862694f4701b712bae4d8770a7e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That last comment is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab2edada4f34cbd8e5e17a65fd90775\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Over that period of 2 years the policy targets agreement was breached eight times out of 12. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dbf60ceaf8642ec8f54011f3ac25ad5\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister concede that changes he made to the policy targets agreement in 2002 have played a part in raising inflation expectations, and will he be giving any considerations to calls made in the recent macroeconomic policy forum, organised by both the Reserve Bank and Treasury, to replace the inflation target band with a point target, and to put decisions about monetary policy into the hands of a committee, as is done in the UK and the US ?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288aa9cac342142f8b45ce773d3efc2c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: On the first point, all the countries that I know of that have a point target have a tolerance band around the point target, because nobody can possibly predict 0.5 percent exactly by managing monetary policy, or indeed any other policy that is available to anybody, anywhere around the world. Should one set up a committee? I suppose it will be the National Party\u2019s economic policy in most areas to set up a committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a31456de77084c66bb3e3f11b37a542a\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If the Reserve Bank raises interest rates tomorrow, does the Minister accept that this will probably lead to a higher exchange rate and further Uridashi issuance; in which case will he send more officials to Japan to tell them that New Zealand is once again a lousy investment destination; urge the Reserve Bank to intervene; continue to talk down the currency, as he has since 47c; or order another supplementary stabilisation instruments report; or is it now the case that, having once asserted that he was not without options when it came to the exchange rate, he is rapidly finding that, in fact, he is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a57a1e81e4b4693a33adf048c4126a0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members that questions are meant to be succinct, as are answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279365edd799d4c8eb60731c4fb363529\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think that was succinct for that member. What I will certainly not do is feed extra billions of dollars of spending power into the economy\u2014as that member proposes, thinking it will have no effect on monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a202ae450046968cb57aa8067ebed1\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by the comments he made to Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago when he said: \u201CI won\u2019t say what I expected because, well, I\u2019m not allowed to, but the general consensus is that rates will not be raised \u2026 I think that\u2019s really what the bank was saying.\u201D; does he now think that his \u201Cwink wink, nudge nudge\u201D comments about interest rates not going up are pretty foolish, given that 100 percent of the market is now pricing in a chance of a rate rise before the end of the year, and does he think he would have been just a little bit wiser to stop at the point where he said: \u201CI am not allowed to \u2026\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e476580e838d49a39adaf55692a3b8fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Interestingly enough, the most recent survey showed that the expectations around a rate rise went from 19 percent, at the time I made that statement, to about 62 percent\u2014but unlike the member, I do not tell the Governor of the Reserve Bank what to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237054e4ff6aa4cc583db2153b4fbbd61\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that proves they don\u2019t listen to him; but anyway\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc2b953fe494e8e981f48313cdfe7d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member has a habit of little preliminary remarks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3824d1f93d74ebf85e0db3aba0d0d17\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3460f4b24cb4d6a99ab534dd68773f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014when he asks a question\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and that, Madam Speaker, is a privilege he has yet to earn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9e6f0fb917476ca036c1f0b24cede8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member does editorialise. We all fall into habits, I know, so in future the member will please just ask the question. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b58f330649bd44a49ea10e3058e13eef\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. During the last point of order John Key, inter alia, yelled out very loudly while Dr Cullen was making the point of order. I think that you have ruled on that matter on a number of occasions, and I wonder when it is going to be enforced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b401d1148bae477295267b9356adf507\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a good point, actually. Many members intervened at that point. If it happens again, then the entire number of persons who intervened will leave the Chamber, and we will get through question time then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221772e9f5-5379-4bfe-9d9b-eaffb4c61b02\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022356c935277284db5a29395a50802cf53\u0022\u003EHon Harry Duynhoven\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. During the course of last week I was removed, having come into the House during what later proved to be not a point of order. But I thought it was a speech when I came in, because it was so long. I interjected as the member sat down and was then removed from the House, yet after a blatant outburst like that, members are still here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bea3430a1af44c9cb31178db01e8b36f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I agree with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc18e5291b8e474cb636de7fb0a9806d\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not mean to challenge you, and please forgive me if it sounds like that but on 10 October you\u2014[Interruption] It is a point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029ccb7d35ef49168a340916aa2ee16f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Who intervened, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222125d2b3215442efa564432af9ed0d77\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth\u003C/span\u003E: I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EDr Richard Worth withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022590125a776574f0cb7ac72396118b1c6\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: On 10 October Nandor Tanczos rose to take a point of order, and was immediately warned by you\u2014before he had said anything else\u2014\u201CThis better be a point of order.\u201D On 17 October I started a point of order, and you warned me: \u201CThis better be succinct.\u201D, or \u201CMake your point of order succinct.\u201D I would like to know why there is one standard for the minor or alternative parties in this House, and blatantly and flagrantly different standards for the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f79557d25646a386eb23800ad518df\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member has a very good point. Those members, then, who intervened on Dr Cullen\u2019s point of order will please identify themselves and leave the Chamber. The member is quite right; I do give leniency. Obviously it is being abused. I now must enforce rigidly, because it is the only way to be fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022050a322a089f449a8a677127f316d492\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You asked those members who had intervened, when Mr Mark was on his feet, to leave the Chamber. Mr Worth did. Another member is sitting over there who knows full well what he said. He said: \u201CWhat year?\u201D. I ask Mr Roy to honour what the Speaker has asked him to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c917841b920946faa072b480faf7ff65\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022185ebb7999f94299a5873346960b266a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a good lad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022533d825daabf4a15be00435c227c14a6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, there is no need for that. The member has done the right thing\u2014please leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EEric Roy withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b8b9f011034bafa59f3f366e8fe201\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can I just point out to you that now that Dr Cullen would like to have me treat him like a nice soft cuddly bear without any kinds of interjections, maybe he would like to give the same respect back to me, in his answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d59de170224a48ffb7cffe41394c7175\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member did intervene. He may finish his question, then he will leave the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022810165a12f914a988dba970db0bbbe33\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his other comment on the possibility of interest rate rises\u2014that \u201CI think that what Alan was saying was \u2018I haven\u2019t got my finger on the trigger, but don\u2019t forget that there is a gun in the drawer.\u2019 \u201D; and when it goes off, will he accept that not only is the gun fully loaded but that the safety catch has been flicked off, and yet again the only role he will play in this vignette is that he will be the person who will be shooting himself in the foot?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022920808a8dc344e70874a25b0c097c521\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The gun referred to, of course, is in the hands of Dr Bollard, not myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EJohn Key withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa1dbd8b86bb40c4b30229707585267f\u0022\u003EResearch\u2014New Zealand Firms\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a315b71a930463bb61e5c7de1cdbd95\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Research, Science and Technology: What is the Government doing to support greater uptake of research among New Zealand firms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002230fdc27d9b37447099a79c5e9701f2e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230fdc27d9b37447099a79c5e9701f2e8\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Research, Science and Technology):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour-led Government recognises that the stronger the links we can get between business and science, the better we will be in terms of transforming to a high-value, high-wage economy. So next week the Government and Business New Zealand will host a major summit in Auckland aimed at building new partnerships between investors and researchers, boosting research-led innovation by Kiwi businesses, and ensuring the research community can respond to business needs. The Capitalising on Research summit will bring together New Zealand\u2019s top business people\u2014144 of them\u2014and 60 science leaders, along with international leaders in this area. The forum at the present time is oversubscribed and has a waiting list. The summit is just one part of the Government\u2019s ongoing work to ensure Kiwi firms can make the best possible use of science pioneered in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecac6f81d806407295740fe781551509\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing to ensure that the results of research are being applied to accelerate the growth of Kiwi firms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022270db37a1c4945d79f64c842c45755d3\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour-led Government invests more than $300 million a year in programmes to develop new industries, connect firms to global expertise, match private sector investments in research and development, improve linkages between business, Crown research institutes, and universities, and ensure that science is a commercial reality for New Zealand business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002238cfc04c66c3436eba3fc355c2c078b6\u0022\u003EMeningococcal B Vaccine\u2014Significant Adverse Health Events\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b96af35be24d5f84077912317284ee\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Have there been any significant adverse health events associated with the meningococcal B vaccine; if so, how many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00223dcbb9b0711d4b3fa0194efcc43c2f33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dcbb9b0711d4b3fa0194efcc43c2f33\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E There are a range of side effects associated with all vaccinations. However, significant adverse health events are very rare after vaccination with meningococcal B disease vaccine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3909092ac18412588330dcc399b9947\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his answer last week to a written question that he is confident there are no significant adverse events associated with the meningococcal B vaccine, and is he aware that the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) has advised it has accepted 33 claims for adverse events related to the meningococcal B vaccine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022264497c5250348a0ae6baed33ae936c1\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes and no. The member may be referring to some of the anaphylactic shock reactions that occur, or may occur, with any vaccine or, indeed, with any medication. They have occurred with the meningococcal B vaccine, but they have been extremely rare. There have been fewer than 10 of them, most of which have only a possible association with the vaccination procedure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e358ef66de4cb5a2ed026c959a4401\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: How many cases of the epidemic strain of meningococcal B disease did we have in New Zealand prior to the roll-out of the vaccine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200586439502740d1baa343b477b6b8d8\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: About 200 children and young people each year used to contract this disease, almost a quarter of whom were left with a lasting disability or died. Saving our young people from either of those outcomes is a prime motivation for our hard-working health sector and for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022933ea6ea0011480095d616d9bc37fd63\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of concerns raised by New Zealand First at the time the vaccine was rolled out regarding its safety and effectiveness, and, in light of the latest evidence, is he willing to give the House an unequivocal assurance that the vaccine is safe, as his predecessor did in response to an oral question by the Rt Hon Winston Peters in 2004?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e725fbc423a4771a74759d6c6264090\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my answer to the primary question, significant adverse events are very rare after vaccination with the meningococcal B disease vaccine. Accordingly, I think it is appropriate to describe this vaccine as safe. It is certainly the most intensively monitored vaccine in New Zealand\u2019s vaccination history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209e5bef2290f43adb8e2ef874292d1ce\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident that the Ministry of Health made the right call to proceed with a massive vaccination of 1 million New Zealand children before it had carried out stage three clinical trials of the vaccine\u2014trials that are normally considered essential before any new medicine is approved\u2014and does that not mean that basically the roll-out has been a gigantic experiment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ef9bca4596641a79ec5ca97aff999ed\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with that. The member will, I am sure, be aware that at the beginning of this process the first 100,000 children under 5 and the first 100,000 children over 5 were part of a hospital-based surveillance scheme, in which any child who had been vaccinated and was then found to be in hospital for any reason was then carefully and closely examined, to see whether there was a link with the vaccine. No links were found, except in a few cases where there had been an anaphylactic reaction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c050b14e47ba4a4fa19ab14851b09a78\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I specifically asked why there had not been a stage three clinical trial. The Minister gave us some comments about monitoring, but he did not address the issue of why there had not been a stage three clinical trial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282176d4a8244454e9634ef20532430d7\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: In vaccination that is what a stage three trial looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097c785a15f243c4919238108552e4e5\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: When he was advised by his ministry that there was no evidence of any significant adverse health event associated with the meningococcal B vaccine, was he aware that the ACC has accepted 33 claims of adverse reactions to the meningococcal B vaccine and has declined 42 because the injury reported was an expected result of the vaccine\u2014bruising, redness, minor pain for a short time\u2014and the fact that it has accepted 33 claims means that those cases are more significant than those expected outcomes; as a result of that information, what action will the Minister take?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b24d4793d8e4535a1a736c0a0336c7a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: No I was not aware of that, as I said in my answer to the member\u2019s prior question on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c1a9de02a62402db9a199e9b6f8eed1\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Would it surprise the Minister to know that while his officials are saying that there is no evidence of a significant adverse reaction to the meningococcal B vaccine, the ACC has accepted 33 claims, including the claim of an 8-year-old girl whose specialist has said she developed a severe blood disorder as a result of the meningococcal B vaccine; surely that must be a significant adverse event?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022925aaedc1ddf4aa9b31c05bf7f035e97\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not the member responsible for the ACC, but it is the case that the Ministry of Health\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e25231b8ca704e74896b18aeaf7db58b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let the Minister address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e83c18ff63364f07804a0ae7c4afeffc\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but it is the case that the Ministry of Health has looked hard for, for example, cases of meningococcal meningitis, cases of Guillain-Barre disease, cases of thrombocytopenia, and all of the things that might be associated with a vaccination, and has found no higher incidence of them after vaccination than before. That does not mean that a person who has been vaccinated might not develop one of those conditions, but it does mean that their prevalence has not increased at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2dcc1c0f24640e4baff07951c526325\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What action will the Minister take now that he has become aware for the first time that, while his officials have been telling the nation and the Government that there have been no reports of significant adverse events, the ACC has accepted that a meningococcal B vaccination caused a severe blood disorder, and surely the fact that 32 other claims have been accepted would warrant the Minister instructing his officials to start to investigate the serious cases that the ACC has accepted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225040a03acd5a49bcaee098b728323ccc\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member may not be aware that apart from 33 ACC claimants, this vaccine has been subject to three separate ongoing monitoring regimes\u2014three of them. They have been of such a high standard that they are regarded by the independent scientific committee that oversees them as being of a gold standard and worthy of international attention, which, indeed, they received. This vaccine has been monitored harder than any vaccine in our history and most vaccines in anyone\u2019s history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8a7f6786b54807aa4a272cd7da288a\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister of Health actually appreciate how serious this information is, because the public have been assured by health officials that there have been no significant adverse events, and parents like myself have immunised our children on that basis, and what we are now discovering is that the ACC has accepted 33 claims? We are uncertain about the range of injuries that they are claims for, but we are aware that the ACC has accepted the claim that this vaccine caused a severe blood disorder in an 8-year-old girl. Surely the Minister realises that that puts in question the advice he is receiving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277574935302443339223760e15d1e145\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. What is so special about the National Party that members like Mr Ryall can get up and go on and on in question time, when we are asked on numerous occasions by you to truncate our questions? There should not be a special rule for Mr Ryall, particularly since 2 years ago he did not have anything to say about this issue, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e4cedda380b41c88df08304c398a005\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members should be reminded that in supplementary questions there is only one question, and that all questions and answers should be succinct. There is a tendency for members on both sides of the House to make speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a9e1bdbab6e4f52bac3e2ba68268bb0\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If you check the Hansard, Madam Speaker, I am sure you will find that the last supplementary question asked by the Rt Hon Winston Peters did not start with a question. You have ruled many times that questions must start as a question. I would appreciate your sorting that matter out for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ab2246fc09f4704a9c54f49365c909b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e834c6b2cab14292b71385a194d2ba2a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any help on that. Please be seated. Yes, if all members observed the Standing Orders all the time, it would certainly be very helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad293d3567f04fcda1cf61d9e7182bc0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You do need help on this, Madam Speaker, and I will tell you why. If that point of order was to be valid, it had to be raised at the time that I asked the supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228adbafb5b9e458ea3c7c6e5e8ce87e0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is quite right, but we are having a little general discussion here on how we are all going to observe the Standing Orders\u2014and we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fef0d63d6c334e5084e2dff8033580f4\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It may help the House if I offer the following advice. A range of serious blood conditions occur in children, and the question is whether they occur with greater frequency after the population of New Zealand children has been vaccinated. The view of the Ministry of Health is that they occur at no greater rate than previously. Although, of course, a child who has been vaccinated may nonetheless at some point develop a serious blood condition, the issue of causality is one that can be proven only epidemiologically, whether or not the ACC has accepted it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e7ac5421574391a362bdb6bc48fd83\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a transcript of a Norwegian documentary that recently screened in Norway, in which three Norwegian professors of medicine expressed grave concerns about the safety of the meningococcal B vaccine\u2014the so-called parent vaccine used in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022961d71c4e43e471b8402904f7979ec96\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ae8f98b6031414ab12c260dd854ddec\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the answer to a written question from the ACC. It is not yet on the written questions website, so it will be of interest to members. I seek leave to table the document, which shows 33 adverse events\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d99e677a76d438180fcf935506553de\u0022\u003EPolice Holding Cells\u2014Teenagers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9283218a684027a58b27e106c98691\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF): Does she agree with Principal Youth Court Judge Andrew Becroft that holding teenagers accused of crimes in police holding cells is unacceptable; if so, what options is the Government planning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6208f26f60943228f766a0f0604190c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6208f26f60943228f766a0f0604190c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF)):\u003C/span\u003E I do agree that holding young people in police cells for longer than 24 hours is unacceptable. That is why over the last 12 months we have opened a new residence in Canterbury, providing an additional 12 beds, with a further eight beds planned for December; established a further six beds, three in South Auckland and three in Dunedin; promoted supervision with activity; promoted a supported bail option; commissioned a new youth justice residence in Bay of Plenty to further increase bed numbers; and we are building three transition units attached to each youth justice facility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022098fe2f6e4ca4649bcff9b5546e88a19\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Is it feasible or acceptable to monitor young offenders through the use of supervised remand at home and electronic bracelets, as suggested by Judge Becroft, in home environments frequently unable to control the offending behaviours in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220087fd89344644b088d1ed04046ff3fd\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: In my view, and I believe that it is a view shared by Judge Becroft, that would not be an appropriate environment in which to promote monitoring at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bbb6aac77a84ec8a193fe740b2262b8\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain what longer-term options are being considered; if so, when they will happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d346b3dd4004bcebc886dcfe1f7373d\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can. Longer-term options being considered include developing assessment tools for the Youth Court, which will be in place as soon as they are signed off by the appropriate officials; encouraging quicker turn-round of specialists\u2019 reports, which is being implemented now; and the use of home detention in appropriate situations\u2014as I mentioned in answer to the most recent supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e023cab4e9d5430196fedd5b5dbfe058\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when 330 young people were held in police cells for more than 24 hours in the first 6 months of this year, a 16-year old accused will spend his second night in a police cell because of a waiting list to get into a youth justice residence, the average occupation of three youth justice residences over the last 2 years has been 99 to 100 percent, violent youth crime is on the increase, and no new youth justice beds will be built this year or next\u2014with all this happening\u2014is the Minister doing nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c031275c675b4e148f2dbccb935d9458\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the answer to the primary question, in the last 12 months there have been an additional 12 beds in Canterbury, an additional three in south Auckland, an additional three in Dunedin, and here will be a further eight in Canterbury this year. As the member may well know, a proper process of consultation has to be gone through\u2014as we have been doing in Waikato - Bay of Plenty\u2014in order to provide a facility that is supported by the local community as well. It would be really good if that member supported building of youth justice facilities instead of constantly coming into this House and undermining the progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022984bcbfbffec41c29c968abb3982270c\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of comments made by Judge Andrew Becroft on 27 February stating that: \u201CSerious crime committed by young people is becoming more savage and early intervention is vital to reducing youth crime\u201D, and would she not agree that there is no place more suited to violent young savages than a police cell or a prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b58423c64c4f4a34a0059a1c72b2982d\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the first part of the member\u2019s question, but I actually disagree with him on the second part. A police cell is not an appropriate long-term detention facility in which to either punish or rehabilitate an offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295ea29c4c2e14b9abfa58bcdaa3d79f9\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: What has this Minister done to increase the use of supervision with activity rather than supervision with residence, as Judge Becroft asked, and what are the increased numbers in supervision with activity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227365df2adbc24db4b4f6f9ee82344bbd\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly support the tenor of the member\u2019s question. I am a strong supporter of supervision with activity as well. I do not have the increased figures, but the primary focus of Child, Youth and Family in this area has been on specific and ongoing promotion of supervision with activity where it is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2d3cdc63b054583b582de7e9f2d75ba\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Considering the concerns expressed by Judge Becroft, does she consider Child, Youth and Family Services sufficiently resourced for the youth justice work it is mandated to carry out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bea85beccdc84bbaa0d01ec8c99a84f8\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. Any implementation of any of the areas I outlined, in the short term, medium term, or long term, are not delayed because of lack of resources. They are delayed because of ensuring that the entire policy work, research work, and, obviously, planning work are done appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c59eb491d57845bc80728033e84d06a0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister what reports she has received that the criminal community, particularly hardened criminals, had a collective knee-tremble when they heard that Tony Ryall had been appointed to get tough on crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022956479c963364a5e97ec1084afeb2926\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that is a legitimate question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2d957e9fead475586447a0b05fadb22\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Minister is responsible for certain aspects of criminality and penal policy responses. I do not think that question is out of order at all. I am asking what happened in the criminal community when its members heard that Tony Ryall was going to get tough on crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fd44e4daf2457cad0f232d3f2bde91\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, but a reaction to National Party policy is not within the Minister\u2019s responsibility. That is the end and that is the ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2f46b7ea60c4e668b1404d80436a1c4\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. During the answer to the last question the Hon Bill English made a comment that I found offensive. I ask you to ask him to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209f3b8e9fb9446709bfbc198702bdcf1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9d3498e50b243b99a2b788a3e1391a3\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I honestly cannot imagine what I had said that was offensive to the Minister. If she could tell me what it was, and if it was offensive, I will certainly withdraw and apologise. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d92bf6e0ae50473987ca22a99dc50c72\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has not withdrawn and apologised, but is waiting to hear from the Minister what the comment was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f5866a19484ea1a2d7f5615b5a70e9\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, it is not necessary for me to repeat an offensive comment. I have asked that the member withdraw and apologise. I know what he said; I have taken offence at it. That is all that is needed under the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eadd5b4a9a5e47a1bcc3982084cc75b1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227b1481a2ef54bd6820850ae863782ee\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228bc2360603274ce3afd64fb66e2b6416\u0022\u003ECorrections, Department\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289c7b386dda5409bbe14bd0c106e2a74\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Does he have confidence in his department; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022380cc9cbbe714d9d97b0979a02ac2a83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022380cc9cbbe714d9d97b0979a02ac2a83\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, but there is always room for improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b8b54c18cd45fcb44554326cb8f7da\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the project director for the construction of the four new prisons, Mr John Hamilton, and the manager of administration and consulting\u2014both external consultants\u2014were involved in the renewal process for each other\u2019s contracts in 2004, including writing job descriptions setting out the attributes to be considered, the weighting each was to be given, and the suggested pay range?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e37a6da61cf449fb7f86de7823a64b9\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of their positions. I am not aware of all the details of how those contracts were negotiated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212e0ba7641a747e592f51d9e3b3b4404\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: Given the many wonderful New Zealand men and women who serve our country in the Department of Corrections, can the Minister give some examples of why we should have confidence in a department that is ably served by those wonderful men and women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a4282a73ec740acb328e4d6f844d6f5\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am very happy to. Department of Corrections staff have overseen a difficult but improving situation for a number of years. Escapes have fallen by 78 percent in the last 10 years. Serious assaults on staff have fallen by 89 percent since 1997. Over the last 3 years we have more than doubled the contraband we seize from people before it gets into prisons. I think they are doing a wonderful job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222a78b87fb504cce960ee1ad41c0e6d5\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that, as a result of Mr Hamilton\u2019s contract being renewed in 2004, his daily rate went from $1,300 plus GST a day to $1,764 plus GST a day; and in light of the collusion that occurred with his fellow consultant over remuneration rates, does the Minister think the public has received value for money for the $2 million that Mr Hamilton was paid to February this year, despite the fact that he has overseen the biggest budget blowout in living memory?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229123d8cb58d04244a638a673ea31c868\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of their positions. I am aware of a pay rate similar to or approximately around the figure that the member has suggested. A number of issues have been raised in the Auditor-General\u2019s report on the review of this project, which was an $890 million project to build four new prisons after years of neglect by the last National Government. Contracts between staff and the contractors themselves are the responsibility of the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dac70a0a6434a138455a3ad402eba8d\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that consultant John Hamilton\u2019s original contract in 2000 was not put out for tender at the time, was extended twice after that, and was awarded a matter of days after he had resigned as an employee of the Department of Corrections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531e2b4570754226a1a2aee53918ea50\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of those claims, I understand they have been investigated, and changes have been made in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695fedad63ef41e5a817b64ce495565a\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that, as stated in the report of the Audit Office dated June 2005, most of the members of the department\u2019s steering group for the prisons project were not involved in the decision to renew Mr Hamilton\u2019s contract; and is he at all concerned about the finding of the State Services Commission report that \u201C\u2026 there was often considerable pressure to make quick decisions at Steering Group level, again based on little information or on verbal representations from the Project Director.\u201D\u2014Hamilton\u2014\u201CThis often resulted in situations of so-called \u2018no choice\u2019 decisions \u2026\u201D, including the decision to adopt collaborative working arrangements; and does he not think that suggests his department really is deep in the mire?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277c03e374abf4a82b274d9afd212562f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware that some of these issues were raised in the review. Changes were made within the department, and further changes have occurred in that whole area of management of these projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282ae2d4f25d43cc8d6ac8e1402ae6b2\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm to the House that the contract for establishing the collaborative working arrangements was awarded to Mr Stewart Rix to the tune of $1.3 million, and was not tendered out, because \u201CThe department researched the market and found that [Rix] was the only New Zealand based provider of CWAs.\u201D; and is he at all surprised by that, when the State Services Commission report reveals that it was Hamilton and Rix who convinced the Department of Corrections to adopt collaborative working arrangements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe42a91b6a564e4489dce82eef989365\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of some of those claims and assertions. I would like to remind the House that this was one of the largest construction projects in the country. Two prisons have already been completed on time and to budget. The issue of cost overruns has been thoroughly canvassed in a couple of reviews. Changes have been made. I am confident that we will complete the final two prisons on time, and that they will be available to secure prisoners and keep the community safe, which is what we set out to do in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e67f074a5839459da9cbfc7c5e61c2a3\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a copy of the Audit Office report confirming that the tendering of those documents was completed by two external consultants outlining each other\u2019s remuneration range.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c5fdc3224524d7b85312f8d2bad98f7\u0022\u003EFisheries Officers\u2014Calls for Police Assistance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c839834006a4eaaba71a617be5463c6\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Fisheries: How many times did fisheries officers call for police assistance for reasons of personal safety in each of the last 7 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5477a175ea14f15bec9a67ac8b30a49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5477a175ea14f15bec9a67ac8b30a49\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Minister of Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Fisheries officers regularly call for assistance from police, under a memorandum of understanding the Ministry of Fisheries has with the New Zealand Police. But neither the Ministry of Fisheries nor police keep a record of the reason for each and every call. However, I can advise the member that the number of occasions on which the personal safety of fisheries officers was compromised to the point of there being an assault requiring medical attention is nine times in the last 7 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022309c2852486941109d544c4b85eaf27b\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister continue to deny the 85 front-line fisheries officers the ability to protect themselves using pepper spray and batons, when his own figures show that they have a similar likelihood of being assaulted with a weapon as do sworn police officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c97b5e5f51d341fa838b56d63ce77a6a\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I imagine that all members of this Parliament are concerned about the growing culture of violence in New Zealand. But I believe that arming fisheries officers would continue to escalate this culture, not ameliorate it. In New Zealand we have a cultural ethos against the use of violence to enforce the law, unless it is absolutely necessary. When force is required, the police are the appropriate agency for doing so. The police are trained, equipped, and mandated by law for the use of force; fisheries officers are not. I do not believe that the current level of violence towards fisheries officers requires a review of that approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b859a892e4243baa855867d45215d9b\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Ministry of Fisheries considering raising the count of shellfish that people can collect on Auckland beaches, because fisheries officers cannot enforce the current rules; how does that help the shellfish stock; why does the ministry not just police the current rules, or are officers so few they cannot police them or so afraid, they will not police them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3fae324d486448fa3c7045e87fee8cd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The principal question was about the safety of fisheries officers. I do not think one can expand that to every function that fisheries officers undertake, including in regard to shellfish on Auckland beaches. I do not think there is any suggestion of a large safety element involved in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f1ff2ac43514255941f6f7308983675\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: My question asked why fisheries officers do not just police the current rules, or are they so few they cannot police them, or are officers so afraid, they will not police them, which is the whole point of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1b6204cc0844a1dae9ea4179cb86679\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The substance of the question is about personal safety. So if the member just considers his question, we will take another one. It is very broad, and actually just using \u201Csafety\u201D at the end of it, about shellfish, does not bring it within the scope. If the member would just like to rephrase. Supplementary question, Phil Heatley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cfe25aa39334609a517254a60ffea40\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have given the member some direction about the question, and it would be fair just to allow him to go ahead and ask it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f37204402a04d6d8ee0d1defe482164\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he is. I have called him to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca6b3ff6ef3440d8bf5143e4536331e9\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019ve called someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7427ea9523e47b9833dfc6808789c41\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not called anyone else. [Interruption] I am giving the member the opportunity to think. He does not need it; he can reframe his question. I called him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdba7d6fa7b84961816e4036bbb07d59\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I would have thought a point of order lasts from the time it is raised till you complete your ruling on it. You were ruling on it, and several members on the Government benches were interjecting during that point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022477264e4682f42d8a78563055a0a0029\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Were members interjecting? If they were, they will leave the Chamber, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a28c23b050d4b2091e2522d3bb4d198\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I did interject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c919c5d8da764e409c7c8e37e2c97cac\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Then please leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5073610cb09492e91604c8fed015440\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to leave the Chamber, but I ask your leave to return to answer Dr Lockwood Smith\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c446aafa586646beb9f41a97051c7ab7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you may.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2c97c2ee9de45138f4cd4e3ca8548fd\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94eb0e98a574744978adf13791be2dc\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I could name at least four Ministers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eeae5a43fa34a9f9729100121f737f2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry; I called for suspects as well, and they identified themselves. At one point there was such a barracking, most members would have had to leave the Chamber. That is the point. I have to take the members\u2019 word on it. I have taken their word on it. If anyone else interjected on the point of order, he or she should leave the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b390936a3a5e47f481b5a240fff790b8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I heard some noise from people at the point\u2014indeed, just after\u2014Mr English sat down. If that is to be ruled completely out of order, then I am afraid Dr Lockwood Smith is about to leave as well, because he interjected from his chair, having just raised a point of order. He sat down and interjected, before you had finished ruling on the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228509d5296eee4c7483a6b02787302a6d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is true. Let us get some sense into this. I did not hear anyone interject during the Hon Bill English\u2019s point of order, but there was interjection at the end of it. So I accept that. The member has left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae8ff477ab6b49ab83c555b8a32f2301\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We do now have to have consistent rules. Earlier on in this question time Winston Peters took a point of order. He said to you that Eric Roy had interjected during a point of order, and on that basis you ejected Eric Roy from the Chamber\u2014not because you heard the interjection, or found it out of order, or because you knew who had done it, but simply because one member stood up and took a point of order. On that basis, my colleague Lockwood Smith should be allowed to get up, name the members who interjected, and then you eject them from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022843cf1cada1e4071a55c1eb9543f21a2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: That would be an absurd position. I could quickly clear the House on that basis, and then take urgency for the remainder of Government business. Mr Roy stood up and accepted that he made an interjection, and left. The member seems to be\u2014yet again today\u2014trying to raise points of order by looking through the back of his head and not seeing what is happening behind him. We could see what Mr Roy did, from this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbf97e075ce245e08137e5791768cb87\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is true, actually. [Interruption] Please be seated. I am ruling on this point of order. I have heard enough comment. Mr Roy did identify himself and therefore left the Chamber. I have asked members to identify themselves. The member has identified himself and he has now left the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227040f8abd1b248bebab75ac5dca01eed\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1a46fd30394d6fa6978b9b2bca49cb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Another point of order? It has to be a different one, because I have ruled on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218cdeb02f56c43118567e59ecc8e6ee0\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday you asked members on this side of the House, if they had interjected, to be sufficiently honest to leave the Chamber. You did not know that I had interjected. I admitted I had, and in honour I left the Chamber. I think the second time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e3a6776637b4fddb0fc346d86d283ac\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you are talking to the same point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea9d8b46be3d44039dd969bd94cff194\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I require my right to raise a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da2b30cfa4134e4fb7ed450bc95ae26f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry, it is not a different point of order, at all. I have ruled on this matter. Members have identified themselves, but some may not have. There is nothing I can do about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226cbc40cb7fa4981a5f392ef18a8a686\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Ministry of Fisheries considering raising the count of shellfish that people can collect on Auckland beaches, because fisheries officers are so few they cannot police the current rules, or so afraid, they will not police the current rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ae3485334944c19ca2dbf1de75b149\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b47095864d6640ce9d875b0e78673414\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Does the Minister agree that it is somewhat naive to expect fisheries officers to call the police when confronted with dangerous situations, given the often remote locations that officers work in, the ability of the overstretched police to respond in time to apprehend their poachers, and the resourcefulness and street smarts of the poachers themselves; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8ebf38dfe74498b553e089004ca2d4\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I, like all other members of this House, would be concerned, and am concerned, about the safety of any public servant, including fisheries officers. My advice is that when police assistance is not immediately available to fisheries officers, which of course on occasion it is not, and they are confronted with an escalating situation, which is not the usual set of circumstances but it does occur, their training to date has allowed them, in the overwhelming number of cases that I have reviewed, to extract themselves safely from those situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a83290e44c5647fbac6104186f58d1f3\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald that the figures do not justify fisheries officers protecting themselves with pepper spray or batons, when one in 20 front-line fisheries officers is the victim of a serious assault every year, and does an officer need to be killed before self-protection is allowed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022271c4aa972c6404ab754ed378838771d\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have asked the Ministry of Fisheries to research the figures of serious assaults on fisheries officers over the last 7 years. The definition of serious is an assault that requires hospital treatment, which in no cases has meant overnight treatment but it could be stitches to a cut, or whatever. There have been nine of those in 7 years. I think, given the circumstances and knowing that we have bus drivers, taxi drivers, nurses, and Accident Compensation Corporation and Work and Income officials at the front line who have been injured on many occasions, if the suggestion is that we start arming all public servants in this area, that is simply ludicrous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa42b3a0303b4a7d8eaa6e96530c0ee0\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a letter from the Hon Jim Anderton, Minister of Fisheries, published in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae6c6e53711453c8d71cc1984cd0535\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11cd2c079de4410a1f37d7b7a19ea19\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a New Zealand Herald article reporting that one of the ministry\u2019s suggested solutions to people breaching shellfish takes is to raise the allowable takes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf4bdd78aa2e473f863aac426f72860e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e2bf2212414466685805b90ee998d30\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a report by the Ministry of Fisheries outlining figures from January 1999 to December 2003 highlighting reported incidents of threat or assault.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285d43a943dc748bab2895410a05d1815\u0022\u003ENational Certificate of Educational Achievement\u2014Pass Rates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274287349dae1409a90bf5b1f0e120fe6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with the statement that: \u201CSuddenly the standards-based regime is beginning to look like it\u2019s getting the norm referenced treatment. With an expected 70 per cent pass rate, it looks a bit like School C, which allowed a 60 per cent pass rate.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022452746e321404841977d5c8d3277f0c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022452746e321404841977d5c8d3277f0c0\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E No. The statement is from Saturday\u2019s New Zealand Herald, which refers to a State Services Commission report of 2005 recommending measures to strengthen moderation of external assessment by \u201Cdefining normative grade boundaries which can function as a safety net for the 2005 external assessments:\u201D. The report itself states that \u201Cbands of accepted tolerance\u201D should be developed and that \u201Cvariation beyond these bands should be brought within tolerances unless there is a defendable explanation for that variation\u201D. As a result of this recommendation, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority developed profiles of expected performance. These provide a trigger to investigate marking when results suggest students are not consistently achieving what was expected when the exam was set. This was explained to the member last week. It is what is allowing the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to address problems with variability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd89545ca8340579d6d18be61147042\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why should parents, teachers, or students believe what the Minister says when he defended the results of National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) exams in 2004 as \u201Cjust fine\u201D, then brought in normative-based bands with variations to reduce the variability, then defended the results of the 2005 exams as \u201Cjust fine\u201D, and right now is trying to sneak in major changes to the way the New Zealand Qualifications Authority sets external exams; and does the Minister accept that 2005 was not \u201Cfine\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653833590267437c949c552105b27527\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I have been the Minister for 12 months, so let me just focus on the second part of the question that the member raised, the part about 2005. Let me use that as an example. What I said about those exams is that we have improved a great deal and that we have laid the platform that will enable us to make more improvements, and that is exactly what we are doing. I have said this so often that I am beginning to think the member has a case of amnesia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252e3e5c174944bc59b0cc6db02be42af\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: Further to the explanation already given, what is the process for ensuring that the results for the external assessments under NCEA are fair and consistent for all students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f8bcd55e1b4efb98a805693f6a12a5\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: For each externally assessed standard, the profile of expected performance is developed using historical information and expert advice on the relative difficulty of various subjects. The profiles are used as a screening device to check that marking is consistent. If a profile is different from that which is expected, marking is suspended and the reasons are investigated. In a small number of cases the marking schedule is adjusted to better reflect the national standard in light of the students\u2019 work. The papers and questions are then re-marked. That ensures NCEA exams are fair and consistent for every single student. I think I have answered that question numerous times over the summer period and my answer has not changed in its form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fff6fa92a884836a3dd4e48fe1520b9\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that pass rates for School Certificate Agriculture in 1998 and 2001 were 41.1 percent and 51.4 percent respectively and for Latin in the same years were 93.7 percent and 94.1 percent, and do not these figures make any comparisons with NCEA pass rates effectively meaningless?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f2771d26eb44c0ac2f429be44c1d07\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: If I think very carefully I can recall every single one of those figures as being accurate; therefore I can confirm the member\u2019s question as being accurate as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da149409d2e94ec4a6f90fa1033769b1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: If the changes the Minister was forced to make to NCEA assessment last year were effective, valid, and credible, why has he this year set up a technical overview group comprising Professors Gary Hawk, Terry Crooks, John Hattie, Cedric Hall, and Jeff Smith to investigate fundamental changes to how the New Zealand Qualifications Authority writes, marks, and tests external exams?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9dce46eb9b497cbc9461e8a2061be8\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am always interested that the member delivers such questions with such grim determination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f922613d7745a7b2fe4add8914890f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are not going to comment on presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801425134fc4442b88e38bb721884947\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know how many times I have told the member that this is exactly what we have been saying, all summer, that we would do, and we are doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c8c0e6e0cab4eb1b0eec128f0befe52\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement that he had been saying he was doing this all last year, when it had not become public knowledge that he was using assessment experts to fundamentally change NCEA assessment until he answered a parliamentary question on Friday, 1 September, and when no school I know, and have spoken to, is aware that these changes are going on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0cb74c84a984ea5b3519d70c86c82d8\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am really sorry to continue to disappoint the member, but I have been continually saying that there were 200-plus recommendations last year from the State Services Commission; that during the summer period every time there was a problem we would record it; that this year, if we could not fix it at the time, we would fix it now; that we would have the same kind of reference group for NCEA that we have for Scholarship; that we would have a leaders\u2019 forum that would work with us on these issues; that I have asked the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to carry on doing work on these issues, and that I have said to the member repeatedly that if he ever has a good idea\u2014which he never has\u2014he might like to give it to me and we will change that matter, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4c114b261b34853a9a60f76bbcbd245\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Will the changes being investigated by the technical overview group\u2014which amount to fundamental changes in external assessment\u2014apply to NCEA exams this year, or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd7894d7571e443d827b236563e3dfff\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said before, this is a process that will go on for a while, as we get these issues right. We are looking at issues this year, which have resulted, for example, in a change to the Record of Learning. There is nothing different there going on, at all\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220306e33d67f848df854165497032aa97\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b07ff293e0b432db4037f3eac32bf35\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I am sorry, but I tell the member that I cannot answer it any differently from the way I have before. There are ongoing changes; some will take place this year, some will take place next year, and, probably, some will take place the year after. But we will get this exam right. One of the good things about it, however, is that the last exam season meant that everybody, except him and Warwick Elley, thought we were on the right road now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022761750791c864c5993c0503f7f082a88\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What would the Minister say to a parent who has heard the Minister\u2019s conflicting and confusing answers to proposed solutions to problems he will never admit to, when this parent has made a public comment to this effect: \u201CMy daughter gained two maths credits last week by sitting a practice test the day before the real test. Both tests had identical types of questions but with different answers, and students who failed were given the opportunity to re-sit a third test.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022793fabc868e944b5aa8aadad40f31be7\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I would say that many times this member has raised issues in the House that have been wrong, so if he will give me the case I will investigate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002217be22e223a84d0eabb8173c76e0f6e0\u0022\u003EIncome Support\u2014Fair and Equitable Administration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4afb76a46054127ae307d3168f29093\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Is the Minister confident that Work and Income is administering income support in a fair and equitable manner across all parts of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u002282ffeba92494409d88d6aeed1a9f565c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282ffeba92494409d88d6aeed1a9f565c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48486be1d7b41f2bea71c2ec541528a\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, do some districts, such as the East Coast of the North Island, continue to show alarmingly high rates of people being denied entitlements\u2014for example, people with medical costs not being offered, much less granted, the disability allowance, or people not being assisted with access to running water necessary for their dialysis treatment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c7884fe21a48e9a5219fa1c5ca58eb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I guess the quality control and audit of the consistency of decisions lie in a very extensive and robust review process. The member will be very aware of the review and appeal procedures for people who disagree with or do not understand decisions made about their entitlements. Generally, those procedures ensure that disputes are settled fairly and quickly. People can also discuss their situations initially, of course, with their case managers. They have 3 months subsequently in which to apply for a formal internal review. After that, there is a benefit review committee process, and subsequently, if dissatisfaction continues, people can appeal to an independent organisation, the Social Security Appeal Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb246ef60af94240b0e661f63bdb7298\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What has been the particular contribution of Work and Income frontline staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4be303b07c4dd99bfe02168673308d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure members would agree that we are where we are today, with historically low benefit numbers and unemployment, because of the focus and professionalism of Work and Income staff in applying Government policies. The staff of Work and Income need to be congratulated on the way they have assisted hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders into sustainable employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223796a13b28fb464194517a8240ff8fa2\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think it is acceptable that people who are struggling to survive, and, in some cases, people who are facing the danger of death, have to wait through the at times very lengthy review and appeal procedures to actually get the benefits they are entitled to in the first place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022836d19fe8fc2481d8475e2cf96dd576d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I twice yesterday offered that member the opportunity to give me any particular case she would like me to investigate. I would be delighted and happy to do that. But if she chooses to grandstand around people\u2019s disadvantages\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ec22a73caf4a9faf2429352de999a3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3617c3a5dcd467d80bd41d3a6bc8e08\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I guess that is her call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f950d84a0644899a1ffa29d1f94687\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a necessary comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca31568e3e44de2b723c0e3000c4e4c\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister be taking details of the long-awaited single core benefit reform to the Labour Party conference this weekend, and can he assure the House and the public that any such reforms under his Government will provide all eligible beneficiaries with a primary income that takes into account their real needs and circumstances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a9aa19158c43a5993f20c03a6ce5c8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Cabinet decisions on those matters will be announced shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221321a8d405a04e8dacc0e6b3c30e6a06\u0022\u003EIngram Report\u2014Immigration Submissions, Completeness of Information\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022528d59989b424161bba9eb8507e67eac\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Was complete information provided in immigration submissions by Taito Phillip Field; if not, in which cases was information incomplete?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022175c0816ffbf463cab9e9f9c9706b023\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022175c0816ffbf463cab9e9f9c9706b023\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister of Immigration is not responsible for the submissions made by members of Parliament, including those of that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a44c44cf96e54ced84a62df46ac3b31d\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What information was Taito Phillip Field trying to hide when, on 2 October 2005, he held a meeting with eight Thai immigrants, with the objective\u2014as alleged by the Serious Fraud Office\u2014of controlling leaks to the media about work the immigrants were doing on his numerous properties in return for Mr Field\u2019s assistance on either their, or their partners\u2019, immigration cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa1a3a920e54b8e98b7fc59bc5a4aa6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat that I do not have responsibility for the actions of a member of Parliament, including those of that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224162fe6923834fdd84c0d96a8368734c\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What information was Taito Phillip Field trying to hide, with regard to the material gain he was obtaining in return for making immigration submissions, when after the meeting on 2 October 2005 only three of the eight Thai immigrants would cooperate with the Ingram inquiry, one of whom, Mr Srikaew, claimed Mr Field was not at the meeting although Mr Field recalled seeing him there, another of whom, Miss Thaivichit, had her evidence described by Noel Ingram QC as \u201Cimprobable\u201D, and two of whom, Miss Thaivichit and Mr Chaikhunpol, refused to cooperate further after being asked to provide documentary evidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205db376fb0a94ccbb4501003916b7717\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I respond that I am not responsible for the statements or actions of a member of Parliament. I further note that all those questions are the same. No doubt Dr Smith sees them as being different, just as he advised the Evening Post on 3 August 1998, when he said: \u201CI even knew all the ewes in the stud by sight. Some people think sheep look all the same but to me they all look different.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1639c4f01ba4e35966e749e40422a1b\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What information was Taito Phillip Field trying to hide, with regard to the material gain he was obtaining in return for making immigration submissions, when, after the 2 October meeting, the police provided information that Mr Field had identified Mr Chaikhunpol as the leak to the media and that Mr Field had pressured Mr Chaikhunpol, and when Noel Ingram QC described Mr Field\u2019s cooperation on the matter as \u201Cnot particularly helpful\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfeff3caa86348639389e2653e7b2230\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat that I am not responsible for the actions or statements of a member of Parliament. But I would observe that when demoting Dr Smith, Dr Brash said: \u201CIt was \u2026 time for a new face.\u201D No doubt the member will be demoted further if he does not get a new question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca54ba0598c4b0c84a0430ca891e322\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not relevant to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250444613a1141799bd096a01a38b65c\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What information was Taito Phillip Field trying to hide, with regard to the material gain he was making from immigrants, when Mr Field rang Mr Patrick Cole on 27 September 2005, 5 days after the Ingram inquiry was established, and told Mr Cole to tell his son to \u201Cback off\u201D from his public comments on Mr Field\u2019s purchase and subsequent resale of their home at 51 Church Street and that he was sending someone around to get Mr Cole\u2019s signature on a form stating that he had nothing against Mr Field?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022443eec19833141119cf4e011ac461beb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat that as Minister of Immigration, I am not responsible for the actions of a member of Parliament. However, to repeat those assertions constitutes an error of judgment, rather like posing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d518861386c405a8a8ae443770f4b1d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Two related interjections were made. In the end, when put together, they actually reflected very badly on you. They were made by Dr Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217a4a802ea40441698bbab899830ef8a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I said the Government was rotten to the core, and that is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b0b286b05a948d6a1d23cdeca5ea356\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: The member said: \u201CYou\u2019re rotten to the core.\u201D Whether he was referring to either you or Mr Cunliffe, both are out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e09028334d4d57b91242a2a57a3459\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222b1d17065714f82b0d4cb66f11fea19\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It is not what I said, but I am happy to withdraw and apologise. My reference was in respect of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242459f24f4ad4f7ea0845b7981efbc4d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member used that term, he has been here long enough to know that it is a reference to the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ff561e8d6b9480fa611c367c055fc74\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I did not use that term, but I am happy to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228788bc720ab14cc995c949c53c098fa2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will take the member\u2019s word for it. There is nothing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ebbe319da445d99c0387050e1dea31\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8294546c99b415fa607bea5e5f2ac18\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5bcec9b853446cbbe1ddee1e0349f85\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What information was Taito Phillip Field trying to hide when, last week, Mr Field provided Mr Sunan Siriwan with over $500 in cash, then sought to influence what Mr Siriwan may tell the police; and how can the Minister have any confidence in information provided by Taito Phillip Field, given that he has continually and consistently attempted to manipulate the flow of relevant information from immigrants from whom he has gained significant material benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a7490a009b24dbfb4043e66710e357b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat that I do not have responsibility for the statements made by a member of Parliament. But, of course, the member concerned is expert in providing full disclosure, which he inflicts every month on his constituents via a pin-up calendar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299319a77eebd4c659baa05bc37d1e775\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is also irrelevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dfab156d63684e50bdedf53abe4467e5\u0022\u003EState Housing\u2014Effective Usage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d1843b36564b738939072acf3b1e61\u0022\u003EGEORGINA BEYER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What is the Government doing to ensure State housing is being used effectively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca69e9b4cf474b30847b91f6e29c8a49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca69e9b4cf474b30847b91f6e29c8a49\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E In the last year the Housing New Zealand Corporation has saved the taxpayer $292 million by shifting people into smaller homes when their families have grown up, and by encouraging market rent tenants to buy their first home or rent in the private sector. As a socially and fiscally responsible landlord we aim to meet tenants\u2019 changing needs and ensure effective use of resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347c2a85c9fc46eea014e00300263e08\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen about alternative ways to manage State houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222187321ce0ef4ecaaa310be335587156\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen two rather alarming reports. The first is Dr Brash\u2019s proposal to reintroduce market rents for State houses to trim the waiting lists, which is a shameful policy that led to food banks opening in every community during the 1990s. The other part of the proposal, confirmed as recently as last week by Phil Heatley, National\u2019s spokesman on housing, is to resume the sale of State houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6928775acd467b88ba65b9568c9f5f\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister say that the recent case of an inherited State house was \u201Cnot an isolated one\u201D and that cases are \u201Carising regularly around the country\u201D, then refuse to answer parliamentary questions detailing the number of cases; surely he should be bothered to find out how widespread subletting rorts are, given that many genuinely needy people could really use those State homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d32bf5499fe74832905578586e404b93\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, no State houses are inherited. Secondly, we have 11,700 people on the waiting list. That member\u2019s Government sold 13,000 State houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022305df05f32484a4c8000756d34dcf455\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing about easing the housing shortage in Northland, and what assistance has he got from the local member of Parliament for Whangarei?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3bf3a2658984abe9b9e809fade60137\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure that the second part of the question is in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221220281b321b4a92a1335e04ad313233\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I will be happy to answer the first part. Recently the Hon Dover Samuels and I opened a new $4 million, 21-unit housing village in Kaum\u0101tua Crescent, in Whangarei. It provides new homes for older single tenants and for couples currently living in larger Housing New Zealand Corporation homes. Strangely, the local member could not be bothered turning up. That person is National\u2019s spokesperson on housing, Phil Heatley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223360358909641ed8263deab92f6fb8b\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an official Government statement made last week, stating that inherited or sublet State houses were not isolated incidents but common \u201Caround the country\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022658c843aca714286ab5ad64b6e10f027\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b3b448a502048beab946a2b791b3151\u0022\u003EFamily Violence Intervention Programme\u2014Effectiveness\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ea4510d2d5a4668b306a387e6ee4ed8\u0022\u003EANNE TOLLEY (National\u2014East Coast)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Is he satisfied with the effectiveness of the Family Violence Intervention Programme; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4230ec9290940f8b27e3f7675eea856\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4230ec9290940f8b27e3f7675eea856\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bec547c762c48dc8d767008f4881aa5\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that his ministry funded a Family Violence Intervention Programme to train Work and Income staff to address \u201Cimmediate safety concerns and provide crisis support contact numbers, including New Zealand Police\u201D, and does he not realise that paying $2.3 million for a course to teach Work and Income staff to hand out phone numbers is a waste of taxpayers\u2019 money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280863d10f0074c80beadddebd597bfbf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes and\u2014unfortunately the member is typically misinformed\u2014no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e403346ca944bcb88896f82aeb122f\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House what the value is of the Family Violence Intervention Programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7b19c184c4a4d55aa7b48020c324f5b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The Family Violence Intervention Programme is one of a number of initiatives that this Government has undertaken to identify, reduce, and, hopefully, significantly prevent family violence. This initiative will contribute to the reduction of family violence by upskilling Work and Income staff through training in the provision of information about family violence so that they are better able to identify clients they work with for whom family violence is an issue. It is also about those staff connecting people with appropriate information on services. When a client does disclose family violence, Work and Income case managers work with the client to address his or her immediate safety concerns and provide crisis support contact numbers, including the New Zealand Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5a397956e5d4425850650fb157c9c91\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: Ten\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Does the Minister believe in He P\u016Btahitanga H\u014Du, the Labour Party\u2019s vision for M\u0101ori development, which the Prime Minister, Helen Clark, confirmed she had an absolute commitment to; if so, does he agree that \u201Cby M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori\u201D services will meet the needs of M\u0101ori in the area of family violence; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221417626ad3d54623963276ea7a3f83d6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I am very pleased to confirm that generally I find community-based solutions the most effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e3655c3b84e43959cad37d437f5ca63\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister support paying $2.3 million for an extravagant course in passing out phone numbers, and is this not yet more evidence of Labour\u2019s politically correct waste of taxpayers\u2019 money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287dba11a0202481cad4caac42c334a9d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is unfortunate that the member continues to trivialise really important initiatives in this area. She might not be aware, for example, of over $35 million in this year\u2019s Budget alone, $11.5 million over 4 years for a community prevention campaign around family violence, $9 million over 4 years\u2014[Interruption]; well, I have to comment that the degree of verbal violence being displayed by the Opposition does tell us where their heads are\u2014committed to increased funding for family violence prevention, and $14.8 million over a further 4 years to continue the excellent strategies around the SKIP programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221104b983a4564fbbb4086fd5bfb566c1\u0022\u003EHon Steve Maharey\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the training for the large number of front-line staff in Work and Income began because staff found it difficult to deal with the large number of women who are assaulted and present themselves through the benefit system? They are therefore able to be recognised and helped. We are trying to ensure that women are placed in safe environments when they are in a benefit situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb30f7b4a2dd4cad8aed3ad703cb2628\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was very difficult to hear the Minister\u2019s last answer, and I did not intervene. But I will, and members will leave the Chamber unless we can hear the response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da1290f770b141d0b3e57f577ebb3567\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that that is the situation, and we believe that it is really important to deal with this matter sensitively and to support people to make sensible decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a1fec1eaa5b456ab7fbbd9d3fd8f0cb\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that spending $2.3 million to train Work and Income staff, not in counselling services but essentially on how to hand out crisis phone numbers, is totally excessive when that money could be much better spent by Women\u2019s Refuge, which actually does something for women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44e9552944447e88229f98b4e9aad09\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will be aware of the extensive funding this Government directs towards Women\u2019s Refuge, and I do find it sad that that member trivialises our efforts in this regard. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab9b47d68994be8bbdeac6720a55f6a\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that there are currently 275 practitioners registered and licensed through the hap\u016B\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccc68e0f51cc4b94b623652f0a2c47e5\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Hon Trevor Mallard made an extremely offensive comment to me, and I would like him to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f67b6a7940cb411696b2d55b70f61ae6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence. Would the member withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a6a846ce1d419195bfa4c466102b1c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba74e01b24c946cf91fdb0934f8fc1c8\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: But it was true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab9f693895004adbb38a1bec61223d9a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear the comment. I do not want the comment repeated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f83f7b2d81b4b7883e1654ed2cc3bfa\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Hon Pete Hodgson has just gone on to say that the comment was true. I would like him to be asked to withdraw and apologise. I take offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e559bd5593444670a359e6c38e300386\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence. Would the member please withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6428c9fdf97446399abe1348b6afb7a\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f367f1f76ee4191b462f8cdd7ca0eae\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that there are currently\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e14a66cf30e5420aa207e758cb4e8818\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member please be seated. Could members please just stop the sideshow that is going on in the House, otherwise two members will be leaving the Chamber if they open their mouths again before the end of question time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c83cc4a24c34541b2fe6ac1a8b43a64\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Hon Trevor Mallard has yet again made an offensive comment. It is a matter on which, as you are aware, Madam Speaker, I have written a letter to complain to you, as the Speaker of the House, as a matter of privilege. I ask you to ask Trevor Mallard to withdraw and apologise again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e53f33d5c9084f688b87b2927f3b2e26\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: What the member said\u2014and I have no idea whether it is true\u2014was: \u201CBut the assailant was convicted.\u201D One cannot take personal offence in this House about a comment made about somebody else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f107b2b696c4a51a8bf88628a2e853f\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Trevor Mallard interrupted in the middle of our colleague\u2019s question. In every other single case you have thrown members out of the House for that offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220358e85f384c4db5b1715575cbfe47a7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not true. The member will be aware that the rules have changed. Members on his side of the House frequently call out, also. It is a question of whether interjections are permitted. They are permitted. It is the barracking so that members cannot be heard. I want to deal with this point of order. The member has again taken offence. Given that she has taken offence, would the member withdraw and apologise so that we can move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ed985d359184b5b847a4d560a7b6214\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f7b3897f5ba4bf6be42313c864c89ab\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have correctly ruled that interjections are allowed during questions, but I understand that interjections are to be directed to the person asking the question or, in the case of the Minister, the person answering the question. What we had was an exchange between a member of the National Party on the one hand and a Labour member on the other hand, actually having a debate about who knows what, whilst Pita Sharples was asking his question. That is not an interjection; that is just disorderly behaviour. I believe that if you allow it to continue, we will continue to see the standard of conduct in this House go downhill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4f761b714dc46d7af50952a26581b43\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the member. That is why I said that if either of those members opens his mouth again, unless it is to ask or answer a legitimate question, the member will be out of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd99448ab8734759acdfd47c34cac4f9\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that there are currently 275 practitioners registered and licensed through hap\u016B and iwi as Mauri Ora practitioners; if so, what assurances can he give to these 275 practitioners that their skills in the area of domestic violence will not be neglected and ignored, as the contract negotiations conducted with the Ministry of Social Development have been?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229743e20483f143108a93e32b696508d0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I am prepared to repeat my assurance to the member that effective programmes in this area will be supported by the Ministry of Social Development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e2dc750c7c469ca1bad7a22fc63b60\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Were Work and Income staff previously handing out crisis helpline numbers to those clients who disclosed family violence; if they were not, why were they not; and, if they were, why is a $2 million programme now required?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a4a5e22a2348fe9cdd98960180bbd8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be only too aware that the workload of front-line Work and Income staff has reduced massively because of our success in moving people into employment. When a National Government was last in power, 160,000 people were unemployed in this country. Now there are fewer than 40,000. [Interruption] If the member would listen, I will answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c38733a94f0490e8cabff9d95236c02\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Will members allow the Minister to answer the question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229410bb073ba746fc8a7ef5844399a076\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Because of that capacity, Work and Income staff now have the ability to provide a much more extensive service to their clients, including this work, for which they have been specifically trained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bd3d56735ad4447a6f2433e1a647117\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that when opening his Government\u2019s family violence intervention wallet, the overwhelming image is of M\u0101ori and Pacific New Zealanders as the victims of family violence, and is that a fair reflection on the vast majority of M\u0101ori and Pacific New Zealanders who do not beat their wives and who do not beat their children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2cfbc4316b54e3280ddabd92ad61613\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The member might not be aware that there are 39 of these very valuable resources. I must say that the family violence practitioners who use them, value them, and distribute them do not share that member\u2019s reservations about the value of the resource.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8100929eeaf463293a8c334beedb741\u0022\u003ELabour Force Issues\u2014Horticulture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E12. MOANA MACKEY (Labour) on behalf of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fd456e34939421b894f33ce87fc169f\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What steps is the Government taking to assist the horticulture industry with regard to labour force issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022edaf93b35bff4e52bebe169bf094d7a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edaf93b35bff4e52bebe169bf094d7a3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Assisting industry to meet its labour force needs is fundamental to the Labour-led Government\u2019s economic transformation agenda. I am pleased to advise that the Government\u2019s recognised seasonal employer policy will provide an accessible and productive labour force for New Zealand\u2019s $4.5 billion horticulture industry. The recognised seasonal employer policy gives priority to New Zealand workers first, then workers from Pacific States. If there are not enough New Zealand workers available to avert critical labour shortages, industry will be able, from April next year, to recruit seasonal workers from Pacific countries for up to 7 months. I am delighted to report to the House that industry members have welcomed this new policy, on which they worked closely with the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df90d3a31de41c39b5320c48eb34ead\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: What measures are in place to ensure a smooth transition from current seasonal labour policy to the new recognised seasonal employer policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf978bda607740699fadaa1e966331fd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government understands that employers are likely to require a period of time to get the recognition required and to make arrangements to recruit workers from offshore. That is why we are allowing the seasonal work permit pilot policy to continue until late 2007. The approval in principle policy\u2014a policy that allows employers to recruit workers from offshore\u2014will also remain available until late next year. After that policy is closed, approvals in principle will continue to be used by other industries but will no longer be available to horticulture and viticulture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289b5c6ab41ab4281a0e83890ddc37cbf\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that these recognised seasonal employers will have to use New Zealand labour first, that skilled workers from the Pacific will be used only to fill specific, cyclical labour-market shortages, and that they will not come at the expense of jobs for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1b787b659b843b78ecaab2da0005c10\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Recognised seasonal employers will have to demonstrate that they have made every effort to fill vacancies with local workers from the Work and Income register before they turn to workers from the Pacific. Work and Income approval will be a prerequisite for an employer to attain the recognised seasonal employer status. The recognised seasonal employer policy supplements the New Zealand workforce to fill critical labour shortages. Under no circumstances does it replace the New Zealand workforce or deprive New Zealanders of jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262f0e35d39fa4dd7afed1485fa415b62\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb97d70b22c84d0a84a89051e876c297\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00220a756e2e7c9c4a0a9bab5d75d79efb20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a756e2e7c9c4a0a9bab5d75d79efb20\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. This weekend the Labour Party will trot off to its conference and congratulate itself on its long-standing tradition of being the defender of those who are vulnerable. In fact, the Labour Party has, over the last few months, used every privilege of power to avoid the consequences of ripping off the taxpayer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c299780fdf4f5b848ac0dfe2d0d4e1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Members leaving the Chamber will please show some courtesy to the member trying to address the House. It is good conduct to do so, and it shows consideration for others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be378d43e9444672bceaab9753a26896\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have not heard a word that my colleague has said since he started his speech. I ask that you set the time back to the start. A cacophony of noise was coming from the back of the Chamber. I agree with your remarks, but I think that respect should be shown, and that Mr English should start his speech again so that we can all hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090c69036fdf4650ae6e0fbbe19a6f2b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Henare. That request will certainly be given some consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cafec1bb7b8d4e789bb6f60b2283b6f2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: This weekend the Labour Party will congratulate itself at its conference on its historical record of being the defender of those who are vulnerable. But, in fact, the reality is the opposite. This party regards itself as being entitled to every taxpayer dollar, and being entitled to use it purely in its own political interest, not in the public interest. Labour has used every privilege of power to justify what it has done and to avoid the consequences of what it has done. What the party has done will give Ms Clark some satisfaction. She overspent on the election campaign cap by half a million dollars, and she got away with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe whole Government machine is focused on justifying Labour\u2019s actions. In the meantime members could see how the vulnerable are doing just by listening to question time today. Youths are being locked up with adults when they are not meant to be, and just a few months ago one youth got killed because of it. Officials are claiming there is no evidence of bad side effects resulting from a vaccination that has been given to 60 percent of New Zealand\u2019s children, when the Accident Compensation Corporation has accepted 33 serious cases of bad side effects resulting from that vaccine\u2014and the Minister did not know about it. Today in the Education and Science Committee the Education Review Office told us that 30 percent of schools have no idea about children\u2019s achievement or progress. That is a case of a Labour Government stealing from our children the hope and the opportunity of a State education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EToday we heard even more about the honourable Taito Phillip Field exploiting overstayers for personal gain. Those people needed his help, but instead they were exploited\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d709f14061e4db0b2b10cec325a8771\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: And he\u2019s still on full pay!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4e7b3557ab48ea8c80858583585a00\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: And he will be on full pay until the next election, as far as we know. Today a piece of paper landed on my desk from the Council of Christian Social Services\u2014hardly a bunch of right-wing extremists. That organisation said it was tired of \u201Cpilot-mania\u201D, endless new strategies, and new ideas that do not work. It said that after 7 years and the expenditure of millions and millions of dollars, no child in New Zealand was any safer. That is what is happening to this tired, tired Government. It has become so focused on protecting itself and achieving its own political ends that the nation and its needs are going begging. The nation and its needs are suffering, and those who are most vulnerable\u2014those whom Labour has always prided itself on protecting\u2014are suffering the most, because there are no new ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Health, instead of protecting those sick people of New Zealand, spends all his time churning out press releases about the Exclusive Brethren and other matters. That is what the man with the most complex and demanding portfolio in the country is doing. Steve Maharey, the Minister of Education, is doing nothing in education. All is rosy, no problem exists, he has only solutions, and meanwhile 30 percent of our schools have no idea about children\u2019s achievement or progress. Helen Clark has wisely decided to get out of the country, because she has to answer why an employee of hers, who is fully on the public payroll and whose costs are met by the taxpayer, is completely unaccountable to Parliament or the public for her actions in making Labour overspend on its campaign budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThis Government is showing all the signs not just of being tired and in Government too long but also of incurable arrogance. It has a fierce and ugly sense of entitlement to power, a fierce and ugly sense of entitlement to taxpayers\u2019 dollars, and a fierce and ugly sense that it must have support, that everything it does is right, and that it can do no wrong. Well, the reassuring thing is that the public do not see it that way. I say to Mr Mallard that over Labour weekend I experienced more political anger towards the Labour Party than I have experienced since a National Government abandoned the surcharge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00229c161179efe24c45be470ce40cae744d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c161179efe24c45be470ce40cae744d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E We are off to the Labour Party conference on Friday to celebrate our 90th year since formation. We do so united, we do so proud of our achievements to date, and we do so in no doubt of who our leader is and what our policy programme is. We are proud of our progress towards economic transformation, of the thickening and broadening of our economy, of the release of entrepreneurial spirit, of the greater attention paid to research, science, and technology, and of the blossoming of both traditional and new industries. We are proud of our focus on families\u2014young and old\u2014through Working for Families, and of year-on-year progress in health and education services. We have the second-lowest unemployment rate in the world\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb7c621d7b149b5b06480bb023fba99\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Not bad!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b7402dfc8445b1a013200476bc2e88\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014not bad\u2014and the highest level of participation in our workforce in our history. I can say about people who are vulnerable in this country that every day 50 people come off the benefit list in New Zealand and go to work. They have been doing that\u2014at a rate of 50 a day\u2014every day of the week, every week of the year, for 7 years. National put them on the list; we are getting them off it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EWe are proud of our focus on national identity, of our arts and cultural renaissance, of our sporting prowess, of our new film industry, and of our status in foreign affairs. We are proud that we did not go into Iraq, and we are proud that we have no nuclear weapons or nuclear-powered ships. So we are heading off to the conference knowing who we are, having a very clear idea of what we stand for, and knowing that we have both high-quality and stable leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EWhat a contrast! The National Party has no policy, after 7 years. It has no direction, no idea of what it wants\u2014except naked power for the sake of having power\u2014and no more unity than a herd of cats. National members are approaching the season when the National Party has coups. In November 1997 Mrs Shipley rolled Mr Bolger. In October 2001 Mr English rolled Mrs Shipley. In October 2003 Dr Brash rolled Mr English. The October, November season of 2006 is now upon us. They really are uncertain what to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226be8433913b0443ea981e48fc2d79307\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t do it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022153d81cade004154a9e8ccae29078f58\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is probably good advice. In fact, the discomfort is palpable: senior members of the party wander around strange parts of the building late at night; Mr Key cancelled his 3-week trip to the US; and there is bad blood everywhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E National last week spent a strong, vitriolic week saying that the Labour Party was corrupt, saying that other parties in this House were corrupt, and opposing validating legislation. National members said they knew very clearly the difference between ordinary parliamentary business and electioneering, so how does Eric Roy explain these pictures? Eric Roy\u2014the buddy of Bill English, who has just resumed his seat\u2014finds himself on one of these buses. These are actually two pictures of the same bus; the same number plate is on it. These are photographs taken at two different times. One of them, on the left, is a photograph of Wayne Harpur, the Labour candidate for Invercargill in the last election, and that advertisement was paid for by the New Zealand Labour Party. Over here, this advertisement of the bus with Eric Roy on it, with the National Party logo on it, and with advice that states: \u201CEric Roy is working for you\u201D on it was photographed last week\u2014the same week that Eric Roy and his mates were voting against legislation that would have validated precisely this sort of expenditure. This advertisement was paid for by the New Zealand taxpayer; this was not paid for by the New Zealand National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ENational members spent all of last week saying that stuff of this ilk was wrong and that they opposed legislation validating it retrospectively. Now, this week, I get to out Bill English\u2019s Southland mate. I want to know how much more of that is going on. How much more \u201CMiss February\u201D are we going to get from Dr Lockwood Smith? How much more \u201CMiss June\u201D are we going to get from Gerry Brownlee? How much more of this are we going to get from the National Party, now that legislation has passed saying that this stuff is OK, even though the National Party spent all of last week opposing it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8792185bf044b94b0cab6d18234fbc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8792185bf044b94b0cab6d18234fbc1\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Can people believe that we have a health system in crisis and the Minister of Health spent 5 minutes speaking to the nation and did not once mention the word \u201Chealth\u201D or mention patients in New Zealand? Not once did he share with us the email that he must have received from the Minister for ACC to tell us about the 33 claims that the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) has accepted in relation to the meningococcal B vaccine. We are asking the Minister of Health what they relate to. Do they relate to something as innocent as an injection injury, or, more important, do they relate to the serious case of an 8-year-old girl where the ACC has accepted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022372d24ddbe1b4ca591f4dc66430cd670\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: No, not most of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fa41ceef7f24d34abd7cf5890d8d832\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201Cnot most of them\u201D, says the Minister for ACC. I ask whether she will table the email that has that information in it, because we need to know why the Ministry of Health is telling the people of New Zealand that there have been no significant events associated with the meningococcal B vaccine, yet ACC is accepting claims of which we know at least one is the result of a significant impact that specialists say is the result of the meningococcal B vaccine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe reason why we want to know is this: parents in New Zealand have put their faith in the advice from the Ministry of Health to have their children immunised. I am one of them. I believed what the ministry was saying. Frankly, I have to say that my kids did not like it, but I have not seen any lasting side effects. But why would the Ministry of Health be hiding this information? Why is it not out there? There is a huge level of suspicion and misinformation out there about meningococcal B vaccination. We are relying on the ministry to tell the truth and to put it all out there. We will make the decisions. So why is ACC accepting claims when the Ministry of Health is saying that there is nothing to worry about and that nothing has been reported? We want to hear from the Minister of Health because the matter goes to the heart of our confidence in the advice the ministry is providing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EBut, of course, we did not hear a word about health from Mr Hodgson; we heard all about strategy. Do people know that he is the Labour Party strategist? I will tell people how long he has been the Labour Party strategist. The first time he was Labour Party strategist was in 1990\u2014the biggest election loss the Labour Party has ever had. Then he was the election strategist in 1993. Labour lost that election. Then he was the election strategist in 1996, which gave the lowest poll result Labour had ever received. And do people know what happened in 1999? Labour people said: \u201CThree strikes and you are out. We are having Mike Williams as the election strategist.\u201D\u2014and Labour won. And, in 2002, was Peter Hodgson Labour\u2019s election strategist? No, it was Mike Williams. Labour won handsomely then. Then in 2005 Mr Hodgson was back as Labour\u2019s election strategist. Labour almost lost, and if it was not for Winston Peters, Labour would be losing again. So much for the great election strategist! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EI ask the Labour Party back bench, who appointed Pete Hodgson as Labour election strategist? Who gave him the right to be Labour strategist? I suspect that it was Heather Simpson. So, at a time when we have scandal after scandal coming from this lumbering, arrogant Government, all we hear from the Minister of Health is nothing but politics\u2014nothing but politics and nothing about health. Well, I say to the Prime Minister that she should put the country out of its misery, put this Government out of its misery, and go to the people, because she does not deserve to be the Prime Minister of this country. It is time to put this Government out of its misery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EIn the latest opinion polls, who is gone? Russell Fairbrother\u2014gone. Dave Hereora\u2014gone. Moana Mackey\u2014gone. Sue Moroney\u2014gone. Darien Fenton\u2014gone. Charles Chauvel\u2014gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4b53a8c42fd4911938277ff53166604\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Brash is gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba348bc2f354071a6a04333ad36627a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Mallard says that so and so is gone, but I have to say to him that he has lost it. Mr Mallard was almost the Minister of Finance of this country\u2014almost\u2014but he never got over the line. And did people hear Dr Cullen say yesterday that he was expecting to be the Minister of Finance for years to come? He was not saying that 10 months ago, was he? He will not let go because he knows that Mr Trevor Mallard has lost that golden opportunity he might have had to be the Minister of Finance for a year or so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EBut, honestly, what is desperately needed in this country today is a fresh vision and fresh leadership that New Zealand can get from the National Party, because this Government has been 7 years in office and is showing all the signs of a tired, arrogant, third-term Government. The latest sign was revealed today\u2014the huge blowout in the number of ministerial press secretaries and communications advisers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022377f797be6a94ef8b1fef498529356bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022377f797be6a94ef8b1fef498529356bd\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Three years ago the National Union of Public Employees asked the Ministry of Fisheries to allow its fisheries officers to use pepper spray and batons, because it was concerned about the safety of the 85 front-line fisheries officers. What the union was met with was a stony silence\u2014a stony silence from a Minister who is out of touch with what fisheries officers do and the issues they have to deal with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EUpholding the laws of our country is an important and honourable, if sometimes dangerous, occupation. Law enforcement comes in many forms, including that carried out by the police, customs officials, and those who\u2014like fisheries officers\u2014protect our environment. Fisheries officers are our first, our last, and often our only line of defence against those who would plunder our coastline. In 2004 a report was released by the Ministry of Fisheries on the risk of assault to fisheries officers. It gave many statistics, noting amongst them that fisheries officers are at the same risk of serious assault as our sworn police officers, and it noted that the information does not support the idea that it is becoming a less dangerous occupation. In fact, the report noted that, if anything, assaults were under-reported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EMore than a third of reported incidents from 1999 to 2003 involved the use or the presentation of weapons. The Minister of Fisheries knows that this is a dangerous job, because he has given his permission for fisheries officers to have flak jackets, which they use. But he seems to think it is unreasonable that they should be able to protect themselves by using any other means, including pepper spray and batons. The ministry\u2019s 2004 report noted that fisheries officers have a similar likelihood to sworn police officers of being assaulted with a weapon. We get very upset when our police officers are assaulted, but it seems that the Government is not the least bit worried about our fisheries officers being assaulted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EFisheries officers had to wait 3 long years before the Minister of Fisheries deigned to give them an answer, in the form of a letter from Jim Anderton letting them know that they would not be allowed the means to defend themselves. It was a firm no, and that continues. Today in the New Zealand Herald a letter was published from the Minister stating that he would not allow fisheries officers to use guns. In fact, he seems to have misread the communication from the National Union of Public Employees, which was asking not for guns but for pepper spray and batons. It seems that the level of defence has escaped the Minister; he probably does not know the difference\u2014indeed, he is completely out of touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EFrom 2001 to 2003, 13 percent of officers each year reported incidents where they were assaulted or seriously threatened. The Minister has many objections; in fact, he is full of them, and he voices them loudly and often. He says there are not enough assaults to justify defensive weapons, but he cannot read his own statistics, because one in 20 fisheries officers in the last year received a serious assault. He says fisheries officers should withdraw from perilous situations and call the police. Well, it would do the Minister of Fisheries good to get out and see what these people do. He should take himself up to a remote coastline with a fisheries officer who deals with situations on his own and is hours away from the nearest police assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EYet he will not allow fisheries officers to protect themselves. He worries about a domino effect. He says that pepper spray and batons will lead to Tasers and guns. Nobody is asking for Tasers and guns. He is completely out of touch, and he does not understand how fisheries officers are trained. On an international spectrum there is an acknowledged scale of force. Currently, fisheries officers are trained in open-hand encounters and carotid holds, which are very dangerous indeed if used under particular circumstances. But our fisheries officers receive significant and very good training, and it is merely a matter of good luck and good training that assaults are at the level they are, not higher. Pepper spray and batons are a lower level of defensive forms of self-protection. The Minister of Fisheries not only does not understand the danger that he is putting these people in, he does not want to understand\u2014all in the name of upholding the law and guarding our coastline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022207a80d80b284df9ad32dffa407b7216\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022207a80d80b284df9ad32dffa407b7216\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my view that we have quite a large responsibility as members of Parliament because we are able to access information that many other members of the public are not able to access. In my view it is part of being a responsible member of Parliament to use that information properly. I am outraged at the absolutely blatant deceit demonstrated by Tony Ryall in the House during question time this afternoon. In my view Tony Ryall, egged on by his favourite leader-to-be Bill English, portrayed a situation in such a way that will have parents up and down the country feeling concerned about the meningococcal B vaccine programme. He insinuated over and over again in supplementary questions that many people have had very serious repercussions as a result of having that vaccine. I think that that is a wrong thing for any member of Parliament to do. It is irresponsible, it is lazy, and it is dangerous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAt the end of my contribution in the general debate I will seek leave to table the list of injuries accepted by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) from 33 claimants who received their injuries as a result of taking the meningococcal B vaccine. I do not want at all to undermine the seriousness of the one claimant who, according to ACC records, has thrombocytopenia as a result of taking the meningococcal B vaccine. But I have had it confirmed that the incidence of that immune disease is no greater at all in New Zealand following the meningococcal B vaccination programme than it was prior. For Tony Ryall to insinuate anything else is just a disgrace. Some of the other injuries that occurred included fractured upper teeth\u2014frankly, I think people need to know that\u2014a frozen shoulder, and rotator cuff impingement. Those injuries could be the result of an injection of anything at all. They are totally unrelated to the content of what was being injected\u2014they are all about the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is that sort of deceit that has been demonstrated so strongly by the National Party under the leadership of Don Brash. Frankly, I think he is a leader who deserves to go, because his style of politics is all about division and deceit, and in my view there is no room for that in our country. We should not have that sort of behaviour being demonstrated by anybody, let alone by people who are elected to leadership positions in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDon Brash\u2019s track record in terms of deceit, is, quite frankly, gobsmacking. For weeks and weeks he has been coming into this House with his pious, sanctimonious bleating about taxpayer money being used on campaigning. On 20 October in the Otago Daily Times he said on the record, then confirmed it subsequently to a number of journalists, that he did not use any taxpayer money to fund Bryan Sinclair, the campaign strategist. He said that not one dime of taxpayer money was used to pay Bryan Sinclair. But by the end of last week he confirmed on the record that he had lied in those previous interviews, because Bryan Sinclair\u2019s salary, hotel costs, travel costs, office phone bill, and cellphone bill were all paid by Parliamentary Service money\u2014the same money that National members said we used inappropriately. Not only did the National leader use the money inappropriately he then lied to the public of the country, for a whole week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EShould we be surprised? This is the same man who simply forgot to pay GST on the broadcasting. So will that party refund the GST that is owed to the New Zealand taxpayer? No, it will not, because if it did pay the money back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c6f317c20040ce809739a71df63232\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member said that Dr Brash lied to the country. She cannot say that he lied, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b679fffa0b3c4380b1183a7805d523e7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have been thinking about that. The member is right. Under Speaker\u2019s ruling 40/4 the word \u201Clie\u201D is out of order, and many other expressions can be used. I ask the member to withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4720ea4b72a49c5a057f7045e245f28\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. Dr Brash consistently told the country one story on the public record, and by the end of last week he had changed his mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a3003518c94f5db4b878aaf65c13c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a3003518c94f5db4b878aaf65c13c7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E There are not many occasions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224493b1b954a240239935a21958ed8f10\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. I indicated during my address that I would seek leave to table the list of actual injuries in order to correct the total misapprehension Tony Ryall created.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231c52e3a5be7433c84aecbb7be1ac141\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ea16f4a06c48fbb9f6674a6a183c1c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: There are not many occasions in the general debate when I can actually agree with the comments made by the great Labour Party strategist Pete Hodgson. He said in his contribution that the Labour Party was united. I agree with that statement: the Labour Party is united in corruption. That is what most New Zealanders agree with. Over the Labour weekend I had people coming up to me at every function I attended\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f3db7aad7854d21be58efb86b6dcad6\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In points of order in the House over the last couple of weeks it has been ruled that members are not allowed to say that other members are corrupt. That member has just said that, and I ask that he withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220509507efb2b413493e7198d31d6182c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the member was speaking about the Labour Party, not the parliamentary party. There is a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229abc6ac707e14ab49b197223045f007d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The people who came up to me during Labour weekend were telling me that the Labour Party was without principle and was totally corrupt. Its members in Parliament rushed through retrospective legislation in this House over most of last week in a blatant attempt to hide the fact that they stole taxpayers\u2019 money. They used their numbers in the House\u2014their majority\u2014supported by Winston Peters and New Zealand First, and by Peter Dunne and United Future. The people of New Zealand know that that legislation was rushed through under urgency, and that Labour was not prepared to go to a select committee. It was a desperate attempt to right the wrongs that were correctly pointed out by Kevin Brady, the Auditor-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E The worrying thing for the New Zealand public is that while the Government is so intent on covering up its mistakes and what occurred at the last election, it is forgetting its basic function, which is to govern. I was absolutely shocked this morning to observe a photograph on the front page of the Christchurch Press that shows, very graphically, a young New Zealander lying beaten in the street in downtown Christchurch. I say to Parliament that it is a basic function of the New Zealand Police to protect that guy and to make sure that that sort of incident does not happen in Tuam Street in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI sympathise with the police, because I know they are busy. They are flat out investigating Taito Phillip Field, who, at this stage, is home on gardening leave, on full pay, so that Helen Clark can keep his vote. But we are seeing story after story in the media. We have only to think of the Television One programme last Sunday night that suggested very grave corruption. Yet it does not suit Helen Clark to bring that matter to a finality. That person is showing himself to be unfit to be a member of the House of Representatives, yet Helen Clark leaves him at home, on full pay, simply because she needs that vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I say to this House that the incident of the poor kid lying beaten, and probably unconscious, is totally unacceptable. That is the sort of function a Government should be looking after. Darren Hughes might be interested to know what Annette King, Minister of Police, said when approached about the problem. She said the growing problem had nothing to do with the Government or with police strategies. That is outrageous. People in New Zealand expect a Government to provide safety in our streets. They expect a Minister of Police to be responsible. When that poor kid lies beaten and unconscious in Tuam Street, that is a responsibility of the police and their strategies. It is certainly a responsibility of the Hon Annette King, Minister of Police; the buck stops with her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBut we are seeing a Government that is forgetting about the basics of governing. Information given to the Education and Science Committee today shows that 30 percent of schools in New Zealand, according to the Education Review Office, are unable to tell their students how they are progressing. What schools are in that 30 percent? We are told that the public and the parents of New Zealand are not eligible to know that information. In other words, parents in New Zealand with kids in the State sector genuinely do not know whether their kids are being provided with a satisfactory education by the State. That is another basic function of this Government that is not being done properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00222028ee7412394c7d98d389ef4a7a0f9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222028ee7412394c7d98d389ef4a7a0f9d\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E Emotive politics, that is what National is all about. But what is its policy, what is its solution, what is its answer? Nothing! Silence! Every time National Opposition members get up to say anything in the House it is negative, it is dreary, it is tired, it is old, and it is frustrated. National has not one solution. It is a tired Opposition. In fact, the National Party is in disarray. It has leadership bids going on all over the place. National is not united. It has not been able to demonstrate, at any one point, that it has a vision for this country and that it has leadership that will take this country forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMembers opposite cloud the issues. In everything they said around election spending, there is no transparency whatsoever about who bankrolled National\u2019s campaign bid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223baadd65a9bb43599c2a6db40c6e22fd\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: 92 percent hidden in trusts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8590516ba94636a6eaa48ea674fdbf\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, 92 percent was hidden in trusts that the New Zealand public do not know about. Members opposite stand up in this House and say they want transparency on the issue. Well, the New Zealand public deserve it, because this country is not about \u201Ccash for policy\u201D. This country does not stand for secret funds being used to fund campaigns to enable others to run the agenda of this country. It is a transparency that all New Zealanders deserve. The National Party is in disarray. It has no leadership, no direction, and no vision. Secret funding is running its campaign. National is going nowhere. Every time we ask National members what their policy is, there is nothing. When we ask what they are going to do about it, there is nothing. They just moan and complain. There is a cover-up going on in, and only in, the National Opposition; what this Government is focusing on is clear and simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe need a country that is going forward. We need a country that will lift opportunities for every New Zealander. We need a country that performs to its highest potential. We also need a country that builds bridges and creates a sense of unity. Those are three key themes that this Government is running on. We want to make sure that families young and old have a greater sense of well-being and quality of life. We want to see economic transformation. We have to lift opportunities for everybody in this country, but, more important, we have to lift what underpins us as a nation. We may be small but we are smart. We are diverse, and yes, that is a strength. We have opportunities here in New Zealand that should not be limited by our size, our geographical position, or the ethnicity of our population. In fact, it is about building a sense of national identity. So Labour does have a vision. We are not tired. We are energetic, we are keen, and we are enthusiastic, and we know that the way to go is forward and to continue doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe need only look back at the track record of the previous National Government. In 1996, when I first came into Parliament, unemployment was around 18 percent for M\u0101ori under a National-led Government. That is not acceptable. Now, unemployment is below 9 percent\u2014half what it was under a National-led Government. We have to say that we have taken this country somewhat forward. The National Government let the trade sector languish. There was no focus whatsoever on Modern Apprenticeships or anything. Labour knows that it has to fix that gap. There are skills shortages throughout the whole country. This Government is doing something about it. More Modern Apprentices, that is what we say. More than 2,000 people are currently in apprenticeship training, and we will increase that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMore important, bridging the skills gap for the benefit of the whole country is good for all of us. That is leadership under this Government. That is going forward. In fact, I was quite excited to see in Te K\u016Biti\u2019s local paper that no young person is on the unemployment register in Te K\u016Biti. Shane Ardern will agree with me that that is a fact. Fantastic! That did not ever happen under a National Government, but it has now under a Labour-led Government. [Interruption] That is right. That is in provincial New Zealand and in the rural areas. Shane Ardern will agree with me that never before has Te K\u016Biti ever trumpeted that kind of benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EUnder a Labour-led Government we have better access to health care and general practitioner services. People will remember that when National was in Government people were paying up to $45 to visit their doctor. Under a Labour Government, if people are part of a primary health organisation they can be paying around $10. That is fantastic. That means that people will go to the doctor when they need to, not to the hospital because they have to. Under a Labour Government those are the types of gains that we are starting to see. We can make real gains in the area of housing, which is where I think a lot of New Zealanders who are really in need can really benefit from the direction and vision of a Labour-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u002291fc7cd6e0244eab9d46252aa5a647f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291fc7cd6e0244eab9d46252aa5a647f4\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Last Tuesday when I arrived at Parliament I was told by our senior whip, Lindsay Tisch, that a really important bill would be introduced, the most important bill that he had ever experienced, certainly, in the 7 years that he had been in Parliament. He was right! It was not because it was a wonderful bill, or altruistic, or selfless, or an example of a great Government working for its people. It was none of the above. It was the worst bill ever, and probably the worst I will experience in my time in Parliament. It was the absolute opposite of a wonderful bill. I sat through 2 days of appalling, self-serving arguments justifying why this cowardly Government overspent its election budget, then tried to validate its overspending. Well, it did validate it. It passed the bill. I was ashamed that this Parliament, which I have come to to serve, was so sullied by such a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E But I say to colleagues that I was not alone. New Zealanders are angry. The whole of New Zealand is angry about this bill. It is discussed on radio talkback. If we talk to people in the street or meet them at local meetings, they talk about it. They are very angry and they will not forget how this shameful legislation was rammed through at breakneck speed, without even the by-your-leave of a select committee to which the public could make their submissions. Shame on this Government\u2014shame, shame, shame!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EAll the while, while this Government has been distracted from its core business, while this Government has been fiddling and stealing taxpayers\u2019 money, the whole of the health sector has been slowly disintegrating in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224347130456cb45918bc28f98c4a71138\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member made an inappropriate reference to members of the parliamentary Labour Party, and I ask that you ask her to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fa76b1f58794affadced4099f4b0a01\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: If the member said anything inappropriate, I ask her to desist in future and to come to the point of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275787e67dbc644e09746dda720a388f9\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Just a few days ago, regarding the health sector, this stunning Annual Report 2005/06 including The Health Independence Report, was released. An amazing press release came out with it. It was so full of spin I was dizzy; I felt sick, actually. I read through the press release and through some of the statements. One of them was: \u201COverall patient satisfaction ratings show that New Zealanders believe that the health services they receive are very good.\u201D One has to wonder who the hell they asked to do that questionnaire. Did they ask the tens of thousands of New Zealanders who have been culled off waiting lists, for data-cleansing purposes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a2934b667544c6ab040b214e57bf54\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re probably too sick to be asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddead9974cc047bd885f78fbf7a8174f\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. Did they ask the New Zealanders who are missing out on the crucial drugs that will keep them well and out of hospital? Did they ask the demoralised and striking health workforce? Did they ask the women who are desperately trying to fund-raise to pay for Herceptin to keep themselves alive for their children and their families? Did they ask the New Zealanders who do not have access to a general practitioner, particularly in rural New Zealand? Did they ask the rural general practitioners who are so overworked and burnt out that they are packing their bags and leaving in protest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EHere is another doozy. Here is another quote from this wonderful spin: \u201CPeople are being treated earlier and are less likely to require hospitalisation.\u201D Time and time again it is just the opposite, and we have proved it on the National side. The exact opposite is happening. The culling of tens of thousands of people off hospital waiting lists, for data-cleansing purposes, means that people will get more sick and need more complex operations. It is false economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIt is also about what the report does not state. This wonderful book mentions that the hospital mortality rates are reduced, but it does not talk about the adverse effects suffered by patients. Just in July this year a New Zealand Medical Journal article stated that 13 percent of patients admitted to acute care hospitals are associated with an adverse event. Dr Seddon, who wrote the article, said that 750 deaths are due to preventable medical errors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EVery shortly after that I received an email from a concerned doctor who stated that, yes, it was all very well to have a workforce that is demoralised, but what would turn it round would be excellent morale, healthy incomes, excellent ongoing education, and adequate numbers of staff being rostered. This is not happening in our current hospitals. New Zealand has a health workforce that is so low in morale that health workers are leaving. They have no job satisfaction, and they are not staying in New Zealand. They are going across the Tasman. Every time Australia has a deficit in its workforce, it advertises in New Zealand for general practitioners, for locums, for specialists, and off they go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022da9535cb9ec84bd2ba6911a33e95c4cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da9535cb9ec84bd2ba6911a33e95c4cc\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E October, early November, springtime, is my favourite time of the year. Why is that? There are a couple of reasons. First of all is spring racing. The spring racing carnival is about to descend on us in the shape of the Melbourne Cup. It is one of my favourite times of the year. But the other key reason why spring is one of my favourite times of the year is that it denotes the Labour Party conference, which comes along every spring. The Labour Party conference is a wonderful occasion. I have been going to it for many, many years and it never fails to amaze me how it gets bigger and better every single year, as the Labour Party builds and builds in this country. Not only does the Labour Party conference get bigger and better but there is always greater and greater diversity. In fact, the diversity of the Labour Party conference will rival that of any political party\u2019s conference in this country. No other political party in New Zealand can deliver a conference of the diversity that the New Zealand Labour Party can. That is the reason why a Labour-led Government is the best Government to lead this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party has the policies that fit the real New Zealand\u2014not the whitewashed or the mainstreamed type of New Zealand that the National Party would like to see. The real New Zealanders on the ground come to the Labour Party conference and help form the policies that lead to the development of this Government. That is why this is the Government that leads this country, and does it in such fine style. It is not just by accident that it has policies that work in this country. It is by great design, great party membership, and great involvement in our conference. We need only to look at the venue for the Labour Party conference this year. We are going to provincial New Zealand, Rotorua. We are not sticking to the main centres. Rotorua\u2014provincial heartland New Zealand\u2014is where we are heading for the Labour Party conference so that people in provincial New Zealand can come along and have their views heard, and can participate in an inclusive process of policy decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EBut inclusiveness and leadership are nothing new for this Government. I want to talk about the leadership that has been demonstrated by the Labour Government, particularly at the Pacific Islands Forum. There were issues that threatened the success of the Pacific Islands Forum. Who was it who came to the rescue? Who was it who showed real leadership in that area? It was Helen Clark, Prime Minister of New Zealand. Trouble in the Pacific Islands is of fundamental importance to New Zealand. These are the issues in which we need very good, strong leadership. I listened to Helen Clark, Prime Minister, this morning when she talked about her role in finding the common ground. We moved through this period of potential problems for the Pacific Islands Forum, because we had a leader who could find the common ground. That is a real strength of Helen Clark. How fortunate it is that New Zealand voters were savvy enough to elect a Labour-led Government, so that Helen Clark could bring about peace to the threatened Pacific Islands Forum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EImagine if Dr Don Brash had turned up to the Pacific Islands Forum to represent New Zealand. Dr Brash cannot even get peace within his own caucus, let alone in the Pacific Islands! He cannot even find common ground in his own caucus, nor amongst his allies. I watched yesterday in this House as Rodney Hide from the ACT party used one of the very few supplementary questions that the ACT party has to slam National, to have a go at National. This is Dr Brash and his colleagues in the National Party finding common ground! They cannot even do it with their own allies in this House, let alone go to the Pacific Islands Forum and find the common ground there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESo it is just as well we have a Prime Minister of the calibre of Helen Clark. Dr Brash clearly is contending with a lot of problems at the moment. Just 6 percent behind him, in recent polls on the preferred leadership of the country, is John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u002257313488e309429989d0a543d0f01645\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257313488e309429989d0a543d0f01645\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. A couple of weekends ago my wh\u0101nau and I, and the people of Ng\u0101ti Hine along with a number of people from other tribes, gathered on the \u014Ct\u012Bria Marae to celebrate my father\u2019s 90th birthday. Some people may think that that is not such a great occasion. But given that the statistics suggest that as a M\u0101ori man he has been living on borrowed time for the past 18 years, I think it is worth a mention in this House. Notwithstanding the pleasure he received in having so many people share this occasion with him, I thought just how fortunate we are as a wh\u0101nau in still having him with us. It gave me an opportunity to reflect on the effect he has had on my life and, in particular, on the few words of advice he offered me when I was starting to make my own way in this world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EOne such piece of advice that I particularly recall, and still adhere to to this day, is: kia whakapono katoa \u014D mahinga ki waenga o iwi. This essentially means: \u201CAlways deal ethically with your people.\u201D, which I took to mean never to be economical with the facts. Others might take this also to mean never let the facts get in the way of a good story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EIn a few weeks\u2019 time this House will debate a member\u2019s bill that was given great fanfare when lodged, as it was touted as fulfilling the reason why the member\u2019s party was in Parliament. Just to ensure that people understand which bill I am talking about, I am, of course, referring to the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill. One would think that the title of this bill is clear and signals the bill\u2019s intent. Alas, a closer reading of the bill proves quite the reverse; it actually states that the foreshore and seabed be re-vested in the Crown. One needs to ask why this Parliament should go to the bother of dealing with a bill that is already covered by existing legislation that ensures that the present seabed and foreshore is already vested in the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI have heard that the member\u2019s party had not anticipated the bill being drawn from the ballot so soon in this parliamentary term. I can now see why. The bill falls well short of the expectations of the many supporters of the member\u2019s party. The member is quoted as saying, in her defence: \u201CWe only ever said that we would repeal (the act), and that is our intention.\u201D Can I say that this bill is certainly not going down that line. I wonder, also, what my whanaunga from Te Aup\u014Duri thinks of this bill, given his understanding of the intent of his party policy being to have the foreshore vested in M\u0101ori title. The M\u0101ori Party members will certainly have some difficulty in explaining all of this to their constituency to gain its support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAdded to all of this, of course, is the question of what position the National Party will take, given its stated opposition to the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004. Will it support the bill? Will it support the M\u0101ori Party? Will the M\u0101ori Party rely on National\u2019s support? Will we see a new alliance being formed between the two parties? I say to both of those parties, notwithstanding the invitation to dine together and the subsequent declining of that invitation, to remember the old saying: \u201CHell hath no fury like a woman scorned.\u201D The scorn that will be heaped on their houses by their respective constituencies will certainly far exceed that of a scorned woman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori people today are in a much better position socially and economically than they have been in a long time. Having said that, I would be the first to say that there is still a lot of work to do. As my father continues to espouse, the solution lies not in grievance mode, but in the pursuit of education, education, and education. I say to any party that intends to support the Foreshore and Seabed Act (Repeal) Bill that M\u0101ori would be better serviced, socially and economically, if the focus were on increasing and improving access to education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EDuring this debate we have heard criticism about corruption, and that the people of New Zealand have been misled. This has been said by members of a party who really believe that they exist, and have been born, to rule. As long as they forget that this country operates under a system known as MMP, they will be doomed to sit where they are sitting now in this House, irrespective of what amounts may be owed by various parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022381b6e0f1e4340f18701099ef40196a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022381b6e0f1e4340f18701099ef40196a1\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E It was interesting to hear the New Zealand First member have a wee chat and not even mention the $160,000 that his party owes. We are all interested in finding out from Mr Paraone when he is going to pay the $160,000. [Interruption] Another legal opinion! We will wait to see when and whether New Zealand First pays back the $160,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that members have talked about the Labour Party conference this weekend being all-inclusive. We have heard from Mrs Mahoney about that, but I read with interest today in the newspaper that Taito Phillip Field has not been invited. I cannot see how it will actually be all-inclusive when right now Labour Party members are selecting who will be allowed through the door. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EHere we have a party, the Labour Party, that does not listen to advice. Its members were warned by the Chief Electoral Officer and by the Auditor-General about their election spending. They were rorting the system in 1999, 2002, and 2005, and they stole those elections. On the bottom of the pledge card brochure in 1999 there is a quote from Helen Clark: \u201CThis card was paid for and delivered by Labour supporters.\u201D Yet on Close Up, on Thursday, 12 October, the Prime Minister fronted up and said Labour had made no attempt to hide that the card had parliamentary funding. So here we have an example of the double standards that will bring the Labour Party and this Government down. The Auditor-General needs to be commended; Mr Brady hung tough. He was worked over by \u201CH1\u201D, Helen Clark, and \u201CH2\u201D, Heather Simpson. He was worked over by both them, but he hung tough. Well done to the Auditor-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to read the article on the weekend by Anthony Hubbard in which he termed Helen Clark \u201CH1\u201D and Heather Simpson \u201CH2\u201D. He wrote that Ms Simpson was the bulldozer and the Prime Minister was pulling the levers. Being experienced with bulldozer driving on our property, I was thinking that that would not be a pretty sight, would it\u2014Helen Clark pulling the levers while sitting on top of Heather Simpson, the bulldozer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAnyway, I just want to know from some of the back-benchers how they feel about having to pay back $6,000. How do you feel about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f055979c4b849129349178aba60ed87\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is bringing the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225c947002ff0455c96c0a985fc9183e0\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: How does Sue Mahoney feel about paying back $6,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6459c13938a4724a7441e17438cb7e8\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member is not using my proper name. If he is going to refer to me, I would like that to occur. He can pay back the GST at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a53e82927065498caed5592aa22dd498\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s name is Moroney. The member has said it twice incorrectly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228608456a01d2416ab05ef0b488de9254\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: How does one of the new members on the Labour back bench feel about having to pay back $6,000? How does the member for New Plymouth, Mr Duynhoven, feel about paying? What is the figure he will have to pay back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221772e9f5-5379-4bfe-9d9b-eaffb4c61b02\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5ba096f321b401690149eb19f7cfb5d\u0022\u003EHon Harry Duynhoven\u003C/span\u003E: You mind your own business, sonny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8e2a7eed9c04859b990272f169b2bc5\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Right, certainly. I would say the figure is about $12,000 to $16,000. That will really, really hurt. It was a dark day last week, was it not, when retrospective legislation was passed. I was out on the hustings over Labour weekend and in contact with some of the key constituents in the Otaki electorate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221047a362b60c4afba92b6c3e88a25d53\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Did you see Darren Hughes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc3d91b167bb4f92925815b19e07c1b0\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I did not see him anywhere. That is the most marginal electorate in the whole country. Those constituents were saying it was terrible that the retrospective legislation had been passed last week. I was speaking to strong Labour Party supporters and they have turned against Labour. So they will not be driving from \u014Ctaki up to Rotorua on the weekend to put money into a bucket during a whip-round; they will be staying put. They have had an entire gutsful of this Labour Party, and they all know that Labour is on the way out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E While the strategist Pete Hodgson has been out there fronting up to the media and talking about the election spending, he has not been concentrating on some of the core issues facing our country. Health is of vital importance to the Otaki electorate, and to the people of Kapiti and Horowhenua. While he has been out there trying to spin the way out for a corrupt Labour Party in a deep hole, he has not been focusing on the core role of a health Minister. Health is of great interest up in Levin; we have a health centre being built up there, right now. The roof is on, the sides are going on, and $16 million has been invested, but no general practitioners are signed up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00221366143be40843b9a6e3f48107d1281e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221366143be40843b9a6e3f48107d1281e\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to be taking a call in this debate, and to have been incredibly flattered by the Opposition today, whose members are busting to come to the Labour Party conference in Rotorua this weekend. Well, they are not welcome, because that conference is going to be focusing on building a better future for New Zealand and New Zealand families. National members can listen to the policies when they drop out as pearls of wisdom, but they do not have any idea, at all, about policy. We have not even seen a little wee pearl of wisdom there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe will be talking about what we have done in Government to transform the economy. We have dropped unemployment to the lowest level in the Western World. That is what we will be talking about, and that did not happen by accident. We are investing in health, education, and policing. As my colleague said, we are maintaining our reputation overseas with our leader over in the Pacific Islands Forum. We are a proud, principled, independent, and nuclear-free nation\u2014and if the Opposition ever got into Government it would be the first thing to go. We are still delivering to the people of New Zealand, and we are not destroying their morale or their sense of pride in who they are as New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EBut it is spring, and spring is an interesting time for Opposition members. Lots of things happen, and not just spring rolls\u2014they start to roll. That is what happens. In November 1997 Jenny Shipley overthrew Jim Bolger. On 8 October 2001 Shipley stepped down. On 9 October Bill English was elected leader. On 28 October Don Brash replaced Bill English as leader. What else will happen this spring, while Labour is busy dealing to its policies and to its membership out there? There is a change in the wind; the change is there for the ghost who walks, Dr Brash. Matthew Hooton has already said he does not think that National can ever win with Don Brash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe are all asking ourselves why John Key cut short his visit to America. He came back here saying that he had some things he had to focus on. Perhaps the issue he is worried about\u2014if he is going to be the next leader\u2014is what National\u2019s relationship is with the Exclusive Brethren. He might get it right. He might also ask how men who profess to know about business do not understand their party\u2019s spending on GST. That needs to be put right, and that money needs to be paid back. He may also have to deal with National\u2019s refusal to pay money it overspent on broadcasting. There are lots of things for John Key to get right, and we will be watching with great interest. But one lesson I think he may need to know as a new wannabe leader is that tax cuts will not buy more surgery for New Zealanders. They will not buy more teachers, more social workers, or more police, and they will not buy Herceptin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI want to focus on our leadership at the conference. It is secure, and it is actively working out in the regions to build confidence. We will show them confidence in Rotorua this weekend. Our party membership is up and our policies are still delivering, and they are still inspiring mum and dad Kiwis. We can look at KiwiSaver. It actually has New Zealanders terribly excited about starting to turn into a savings economy. What a great thing for this country! We will show the fruits of our Labour policies in Rotorua this weekend. We will be looking at things like economic transformation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EIn my electorate, Rotorua, we are seeing tourism surviving against a lowering trend in the rest of the country. We are looking at issues like the lakes restoration in our area. Forestry and manufacturing are confident, with a new planer mill opened at Red Stag Timber by the Prime Minister just last month. We are looking at trans-Tasman passenger services. The board of the council\u2019s bright economy strategy is looking at energy cogeneration, bio-fuels and thermal energy production. These things are happening under a Labour Government, with policies that help them happen. Unemployment in this region, as in all regions of New Zealand, is at an all-time low level. Today\u2019s announcement at the Pacific Islands Forum about seasonal fruit pickers being able to come to New Zealand is fantastic for our kiwifruit and blueberry industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222541d27a45d341beb3a925a71fa4c590\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222541d27a45d341beb3a925a71fa4c590\u0022\u003ERacing Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b141b09f4d784e87813dfff6407f9baa\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00227c79b83ddf924effab0c013140bbfbfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c79b83ddf924effab0c013140bbfbfc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill and the Racing Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill is an important contribution to the trans-Tasman single economic market. It is a pioneering step in cross-border banking supervision cooperation. The trans-Tasman market, of course, is not the only cross-border banking market in the world. We are showing the way in which regulators can work together on shared issues and be alert to each other\u2019s interests in times of stress. The fact is that most\u2014nearly all\u2014of our retail banks are owned from Australia, and that therefore cooperation is crucial to the financial health of the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank and the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, the Australian regulator, have already made a number of commitments to cooperate on prudential matters. The proposed changes in the bill, and in the reciprocal Australian legislation currently before the Australian Senate, will strengthen that commitment. They do so by creating upon each regulator a duty to consider formally the interests of the other regulator. There are specific duties to consult and to avoid interference with outsourcing arrangements when actions taken in one jurisdiction may impact adversely on the other. The bill draws a realistic balance between the desirability of trans-Tasman cooperation, and the independence and discretion of each prudential regulator, within international boundaries. That will help, I think, to enhance the maintenance of financial stability in both countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThere is also a technical amendment to the Racing Act to ensure that the Racing Board has the necessary flexibility in setting its policy to round dividends. That is in response to the withdrawal of the 5c piece. Members might wish to know, or have probably already noticed, that the old coins have just about disappeared from circulation, but that only 30 percent of the silver coins have yet been returned to the Reserve Bank. This suggests that the 5c pieces, in particular, have largely disappeared because people have found them a nuisance to handle in relation to their actual value. But I do say that if people have lots of the old coins in their possession, I am sure they can use those for the Labour Party \u201Cgreat whip-round\u201D, because they can still be traded in to the Reserve Bank, in terms of being actual money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7768984cd6c4f78ac942471a0e52254\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022116f34386afb4833a63d663c7e768400\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I would not want to give that member a whip-round. Again, I thank the Finance and Expenditure Committee, those who made submissions, and officials for their work on the legislation. I also thank the House for its rapid consideration of the legislation in the Committee stage yesterday. It is simple, technical legislation and it has widespread support, particularly from the major Opposition party. I would not be very happy about passing any significant amendments to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act without at least bipartisan support from the two main parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228ed62119bd00483881d314f3de3d97c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ed62119bd00483881d314f3de3d97c7\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister has just said, there is support from parties for this legislation, and National has been a supporter right along for the legislation and for splitting it into two bills. I want to re-emphasise some points we believe are important: that is, that the Reserve Bank Act amendments in the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill implement the Government\u2019s response to the recommendations of the Joint Trans-Tasman Council on Banking Supervision. The bill would oblige the bank, where reasonably practicable, to cooperate with Australian authorities by supporting them and by avoiding actions likely to have a detrimental effect on the stability of the financial system in Australia. The plan is also to have matching legislative changes in Australia, in cooperation with the Reserve Bank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ECloser integration of banking supervision with Australia is appropriate, given the degree of integration that already exists between New Zealand\u2019s and Australia\u2019s banking systems. Most banks here are owned by Australian parents and, given the desire to move towards a single economic market, the legislation strengthens the arrangements for coordinating with Australia in the event of a general crisis or a specific bank failure involving a cross-border bank. It will be an improvement on what we have at the moment and it will be better than the alternative the Government was looking at, which was having an Australian banking regulator, the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, being the sole regulator of Australian banks operating in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe second bill, the Racing Amendment Bill, amends the Racing Act. Currently the Racing Act requires dividends on winning bets to be rounded down to the nearest 5c. However, the 5c coin will be phased out of circulation by 1 November this year, and that creates a problem. When I spoke in the Committee stage, I gave examples of what that actually means in real terms to the punters and what the Racing Board will now be able to do. The amendments to the Act will allow the Racing Board to decide, as part of the betting rules, how dividends will be rounded. These betting rules are currently subject to scrutiny by the Regulations Review Committee, and the bill does not change this procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the Racing Act are obvious and necessary. One point to make, though, may be that the Act currently stipulates that dividends are to be rounded down, not up or down. Supermarkets, for example, round up or round down to whatever the closest denomination is. In this case, dividends are to be rounded down. If dividends are now to be payable only in multiples of 10c, we hope for the punters\u2019 sake that the Racing Board will not continue the practice of only rounding down. However, rounding down is a possible way to go. I gave examples in the Committee yesterday of punters not being disadvantaged by this approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EIt is important that we have commonality with Australia. We need flexibility in the marketplace to meet the market, especially in racing where it is very easy to bet on horses overseas\u2014not just in Australia but elsewhere. That commonality with Australia will bring the two countries into line and give us the flexibility we require. So National is very happy to support the two bills into which the original Reserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill is now split.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2faa5a0389e44129bb23ae289f25451\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2faa5a0389e44129bb23ae289f25451\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First\u2019s member on the Finance and Expenditure Committee, Doug Woolerton, has already given some very erudite explanations of our position vis-\u00E0-vis this legislation during the earlier readings and also during the Committee stage. There is really no need for me to traverse the points he made so lucidly. I just need, in fact, to reiterate New Zealand First\u2019s support for the splitting of the original bill and for each of the bills created by that split.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6b15be4ec01455a822904e556ddf90b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6b15be4ec01455a822904e556ddf90b\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party supports this legislation. In terms of banking supervision, we support cooperation between Australia and New Zealand. Clearly, the fates of the two countries are tied, particularly as the four main trading banks in New Zealand are Australian-owned. The ANZ, Westpac, the BNZ, and the ASB are all Australian-owned. They have a total market value of $36.4 billion, which is equal in value to the assets of the 12 top listed companies in New Zealand, and in 2005 they had net earnings of $2.63 billion. The impact on the New Zealand economy is huge, so it is important to make sure that the banking sector is healthy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn previous legislation and arrangements we made sure there was relative independence of the New Zealand subsidies of those four banks. This was to ensure that if something happened in Australia and one of the banks fell over because of Australian factors, ordinary New Zealand depositors would not suffer. Although we are a long way from any Australian bank falling over, this morning\u2019s Dominion Post has an interesting headline that reads: \u201CDrought debts loom over banks\u201D. The article explains that the long drought in Australia is having a huge impact on Australia\u2019s rural economy and that many farmers will not be able to repay their loans. The drought is having an effect on the whole rural services sector, and that also impacts on the banks. The situation could easily get worse, particularly with global warming. One of the predictions in relation to global warming is that the east coast of Australia will become even drier and perhaps put into doubt the viability of more and more farms in Australia. Economies go through difficult times in some sectors, and farming is one of them. Of course, at the moment the situation is counterbalanced by the minerals boom in Australia, which I suppose is helping the banks. But we do not want our economy to be hostage to the Australian economy in terms of its up and downs, and even of the failure of one or more of its banks, in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe measures we are taking here today to introduce more cooperation in the banking sector are good, although I think we also have to look at the other end of things and try to reduce our dependence on Australia in the area of banking. It is good to see Kiwibank moving ahead somewhat. New Zealand has only two independent banks: the Taranaki savings bank and Kiwibank. It is important we assist them, because one of the problems with the banking sector being largely Australian-owned is that it contributes very badly to our current account deficit. When net earnings from the Australian banks amount to $2.63 billion, that translates into a big outflow in dividends each year and contributes significantly to our current account deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is another side to the internationalisation of money flows, and we are feeling it particularly in the housing sector. Interest rates in the finance sector and the banking sector differ so much internationally that we have the phenomenon of Japanese housewives, as they are often described, investing heavily in New Zealand bonds, which are higher earning than the bonds they can get in Japan. So there has been a huge inflow into the banking sector, often via the money controlled by the Australian banks. That money is then invested heavily in housing, and that has put up the price of houses substantially, particularly in the absence of any capital gains tax in New Zealand\u2014on investment homes, not personal homes. The lack of a capital gains tax has increased that phenomenon, often via the Australian banks, and I think this is to our detriment. It makes it much more difficult for young New Zealanders, in particular, to buy a home or to get within reach of buying a home. This situation has also put many families who do buy a home in a huge mortgage-debt situation, and the situation could become even worse for them if there is, as a lot of real estate people predict, a crash in the housing market, as has occurred in some other Western housing sectors over the last year or so. Such a crash in New Zealand has been delayed, but we could be in for a bit of thump in that area, and that could affect the banking sector quite significantly, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EFor all of those reasons, I think it is important to have cooperation between Australia and New Zealand in the banking sector and to make the best job of it we can. With those few comments, the Greens will be supporting this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u00225248a83863764083ba552df28e57fefa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225248a83863764083ba552df28e57fefa\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa te Whare. The next time we see a 5c coin we might want to grab it, because it will probably be the last time we handle Aotearoa\u2019s unique and threatened tuatara. We had better be quick, because we have only 7 more days to see the coin that features our taonga species before it is dumped by the Reserve Bank. Although I am sure that the Reserve Bank has perfectly good reasons for getting rid of the old silver coins, it is sad that our oldest and most unevolved species\u2014outside this House, of course\u2014will no longer be seen on the face of our currency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe survival of this unique living fossil prompted Ng\u0101ti Koata to join with Ng\u0101ti Kur\u012B, Ng\u0101ti Wai, Te Rarawa, Ng\u0101ti Porou, and Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu to challenge the Crown\u2019s failure to protect the exercise of tino rangatiratanga and kaitiakitanga over indigenous flora and fauna. This is a far-reaching claim lodged with the Waitangi Tribunal and known as Wai 262, which asserts rights to indigenous flora, fauna, M\u0101ori traditional knowledge, intellectual and cultural property rights, and authority in environmental, resource, and conservation management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis legislation refers to addressing a problem facing the racing industry with the dumping of the 5c coin, but in truth nothing is ever so simple, and we would do well to consider the big issues at stake here. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand Amendment Bill is supposed to promote better regulation of the trans-Tasman financial sector as part of a single economic market agenda. The M\u0101ori Party again questions the view that M\u0101ori, and New Zealand\u2019s economic future, should be forever tied to Aussie apron strings. These last few weeks the M\u0101ori Party has been raising issues about the outsourcing of Air New Zealand\u2019s finance work to Fiji, Telecom\u2019s shifting of its call centre work to the Philippines, and other developments that show how control is fast moving offshore. We cannot help but express concerns regarding our own sovereignty and our capacity to participate fully in the developing economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EPerhaps now is also the right time for M\u0101ori to be considering the nature of profit and risk that may come from doing business abroad. The growth of land-based businesses across international boundaries may, indeed, enhance an iwi\u2019s ability to serve its beneficiaries, and the M\u0101ori Party is interested to hear what iwi think about the implications of the single economic market. I know that regulating bank activity in Aotearoa and Australia can reduce bank operating costs and help financial stability, and I have no doubt that those improvements will help create better economic conditions for M\u0101ori commercial entities and better prospects for their beneficiaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori have made great strides in developing economic opportunities and economic independence, and we see how that growth is clearly noted year after year in the positive results of the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor reports, which provide a detailed view of a major source of economic growth in the world across 35 countries. The most recent study, released earlier this year, showed that one in three M\u0101ori between 35 and 45 is an entrepreneur, that M\u0101ori have the highest informal investment rate in the OECD, that M\u0101ori have doubled the rate of informal investment of other Global Entrepreneurship Monitor nations, and that M\u0101ori have higher growth expectations\u201412.3 percent of M\u0101ori entrepreneurs believe they will create 20 jobs in 5 years, compared with only 8 percent of the general population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThat entrepreneurial talent also has a positive crossover to exercising judgment, identifying opportunities, and handling market swings. Indeed, Treasury says that entrepreneurial success encompasses risk taking, innovation, resource reallocation, and coordination. These factors provide fertile ground for exploring economic options and, in the particular context of this legislation, the benefits that may come from cooperation between our Reserve Bank and Australian financial authorities. Of course, the big question is whether the obligations that will be expected of us will be matched by those in Australia. All this remains to be seen, but we are willing to support this legislation at third reading in order to enhance economic vision and opportunity for M\u0101ori and all other New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn speaking of that vision I want to return again to our humble currency, and to acknowledge the recent accolades from the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind for the Reserve Bank\u2019s efforts to ensure the new coins are cool for blind people. I see that a fortnight ago the Reserve Bank of New Zealand got the \u201Cextra touch\u201D award from the Association of Blind Citizens of New Zealand in recognition of its commitment to ensuring the new coins would be easily identifiable by blind and vision-impaired people. Of course, our view is that the unique form of the tuatara would have made it just as easy for blind people to tell the difference, but perhaps that is something we can leave for the Wai 262 claimants to consider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will support these bills at third reading as part of its commitment to supporting financial stability for all indigenous peoples in Aotearoa, Australia, and the rest of the homeland we call the Pacific\u2014as well as supporting the Labour Government. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5c10a6c9b5946b998aa3b6fc3eae9c8\u0022\u003ETelecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5c10a6c9b5946b998aa3b6fc3eae9c8\u0022\u003ERadiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6b76e85cf624c638c874cb55d488f01\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022d64714c318be48de917fce06c35e0746\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d64714c318be48de917fce06c35e0746\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Customs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Communications: I move, That the Telecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2), and the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time. These bills have arisen from the Communications Legislation Bill, which was initiated to improve the overall regulatory environment for both telecommunications and radiocommunications. It will be no surprise that an efficient and effective communications sector is recognised as being essential to support the economic and social outcomes to which this Government is committed. These bills continue the Government\u2019s progress towards ensuring that the communications sector continues to deliver those broader outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThese bills are relatively minor pieces of legislation designed to maintain the effective and efficient operation of the communications sector. They contain largely technical measures that preclude unintended consequences, correct certain anomalies in the wording of the present legislation, and resolve some timing issues. The measures are narrow in scope, but none the less are of an urgent nature. There were no fundamental concerns raised in submissions during the select committee process, but rather the process led the Commerce Committee to make improvements in some areas of the legislation. The committee gave a unanimous report back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EA robust, up-to-date communications sector is an essential part of an innovative, growing economy. The bills maintain a commercial environment of certainty and confidence for telecommunication services and in the use of the radio frequency spectrum. This will benefit both producers and consumers of goods and services, be they providers of telecommunication services, radio spectrum licensees, customers, viewers, or listeners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the Telecommunications Act are simply to prevent the premature expiry of the regulation of 10 specific telecommunications services. I reiterate the Minister\u2019s comments made in earlier readings of the Communications Legislation Bill that this legislation is not related to the decisions being made on the broader telecommunications stocktake, which is being considered under separate telecommunications amendment legislation at present before the Finance and Expenditure Committee. These broader changes will deliver much greater benefits and will necessarily be considered in depth before the select committee reports back to this House. This underlines the wisdom of proceeding with the more limited but relatively urgent amendments in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWithout any further action, regulation of these particular telecommunications services would expire in December 2006. The Government\u2019s intention to continue this regulation was signalled with the introduction of the Communications Legislation Bill, and this signal improved the level of certainty in the industry. The certainty has increased as the provisions have progressed through the parliamentary process. The extension by 2 years of the regulation of these services is entirely consistent with the recent report by the Commerce Commission. Submissions to the select committee were supportive, and no submissions were received opposing the proposal. I understand that the select committee gave a unanimous report back supporting the 2-year extension. The only issue, therefore, is to determine the best process to achieve that outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe Telecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) will create the greatest certainty in the earliest possible time frame, and is therefore to be preferred. There is no reason why this House should not accept the collective wisdom of all parties concerned and enact this legislation. Under the present Act the Commerce Commission can recommend that regulation be extended or even discontinued. There is already a process, consequently, that gives the necessary flexibility in a relatively fast-moving telecommunications environment. Extension of the regulation on the 10 services until 2008 is necessary, and is achieved through this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe amendments in the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) are intended to keep the Radiocommunications Act up to date and to incorporate improvements that have been found necessary. The rights of existing licence holders who are complying with the requirements under their licence, and the requirements of the Act and regulations, will not be affected adversely by this legislation. The fundamental concepts in the present Act of a dual regime of administered radio licences and a parallel commercial property rights system are not changed by the legislation. However, the legislation will bring the two regimes closer together in respect of licences that may be issued in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn addition to this, certainty will be provided regarding certification of licences by approved radio engineers. The main amendments to the Radiocommunications Act concern criteria for certification of licences, aggregation of consecutive management rights, and extension of applicability of existing arbitration procedures. The provisions of the legislation will improve and clarify the requirements for certification of licences. The purpose of certification is to ensure that pre-existing licences are not adversely affected by any proposed new licence. As such, it is a technical process of evaluation conducted by approved radio engineers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWhat the Act does, and what the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) clarifies, is establish exactly what criteria should or should not be taken into account in the certification process. Specifically, the bill establishes a process whereby regulations can be created to define inappropriate receivers, which need not be taken into account in certification. Making provision in certification for poor-quality or otherwise inappropriate receivers can limit the spectrum available for new licences and lower the economic utilisation of the radio frequency spectrum as a whole. There are obvious reasons why New Zealand should ensure that the full potential of the radio spectrum is available for use, and this legislation facilitates that objective. It establishes a process whereby inappropriate receivers, once defined by regulation, are not to be taken into account in certification of new licences. Submissions on the Communications Legislation Bill were supportive of this approach and, indeed, some sought a wider approach. Useful additions were suggested by the New Zealand Law Society to clarify the purpose of defining inappropriate receivers, and the Minister is certainly pleased to see these reflected in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EA further issue raised in submissions was specifically in regard to receivers in imported vehicles designed for use in Japan, and the potential prohibition of such receivers. I note the select committee commentary that this can be better approached as a consumer information issue, and the committee makes a suggestion on how this could be achieved. Certainly the Minister concurs with this viewpoint, which is also consistent with a recent declaratory judgment in relation to the narrow issue of certifying VHF FM broadcasting licences. However, the legislation provides a framework for defining inappropriate receivers for any radiocommunications service, not simply those receivers used for FM broadcasting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe present Radiocommunications Act provides for the management rights and underlying spectrum licences to be created for periods of up to 20 years. This gives certainty of investment for services using the radio spectrum. In addition, management rights termed successive management rights can be created prior to the expiry of existing rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere is so much more to include in the third readings, but I will cut to the conclusion. These bills are important in the overall context of an efficient and effective communications sector. They are recognised as being largely technical in nature but are critical to maintaining and improving the efficiency of the communications sector. They address key issues in telecommunications and radiocommunications, both of which are of crucial importance to the information age and to continuing to grow an innovative economy. The principle of the bills is not controversial. It is designed to extend existing regulation of a narrow range of telecommunications services for a further 2 years; to confirm the legal certainty that the radio frequency spectrum can be fully used despite potential use of inappropriate radio receivers by some parties; to open the opportunity for arbitration of potential disputes between holders of radio licences rather than place reliance on decisions made by the Chief Executive of the Ministry of Economic Development to cancel or otherwise impose changes on such licences; and, finally, to enhance the regime of the Radiocommunications Act in several minor but significant ways, thereby improving radio spectrum utilisation and the overall economic benefits of such use. Therefore, I commend the bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7a40da32357478d9978b4925c1230d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7a40da32357478d9978b4925c1230d0\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Despite the exciting speech delivered by the Minister, National remains very reluctant to support the Telecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2). We do it only in order not to create more uncertainty in the telecommunications sector and for the current and potential radio frequency operators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EIn 2001 the Labour Government introduced the Telecommunications Bill, which set up a 5-year time frame for the 13 regulated services to be investigated and finalised by the Commerce Commission. In 2001 one of the many Ministers of Communications in the last 7 years, the Hon Paul Swain\u2014it was his turn\u2014proclaimed that the introduction of the bill would establish a framework to ensure that the telecommunications industry could move forward in an orderly manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EWell, I doubt very much that anybody would believe that the telecommunications industry under Labour\u2019s watch is orderly\u2014it is anything but orderly. The uptake of broadband still remains slow. Billions of dollars have been slashed off the value of Telecom, one of New Zealand\u2019s biggest companies, due to a U-turn and the incompetent handling of the unbundling issue. Of course, now many staff working for Telecom are facing the prospect of job losses. What is worse, after 5 years only three of the 13 regulated services have been investigated by the Commerce Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe House is now being asked to approve this legislation to allow for an extension of another 2 years. But the sad reality is that in the Commerce Committee when we listened to the submitters, we learnt that they have by now come to accept slippage, delays, and the missing of time lines. Political meddling is now being accepted by those submitters as part of the Labour governance style. I doubt whether any business in the competitive world would have the luxury of simply extending a time line by 2 years without having to pay a penalty or go out of business. Sadly, the Labour Government has no appreciation and no experience of business discipline or business risk. However, reluctantly we will support the extension for another 2 years in order not to create even more chaos and uncertainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EDuring last evening\u2019s Committee stage of the debate on the Communications Legislation Bill we learnt a lot more about the art of horse-trading and how the select committee process could be overridden. It did not reflect very well on how influential Labour\u2019s rising star, Shane Jones, was on his Government. During the Commerce Committee\u2019s consideration of the legislation it heard from the Radio Frequency Users Association of New Zealand, which is a non-profit organisation whose members include local authorities, the transport and courier sector, the farming sector, and private individuals. The prime function of that association is to protect, promote, and preserve the rights of organisations and individuals who require lawful access to the radio spectrum. Its members use a number of different radio bands to provide a large number of essential services to the public. The association was outraged because no consultation was carried out with it in regard to the changes introduced in the bill and it was very nervous about the security of tenure for land mobile radio licences. The Commerce Committee members were all of one mind; we shared the association\u2019s concern and we believed it raised very valid concerns. So Shane Jones MP generously volunteered to extract an assurance from the Minister to elevate its concern, and the select committee sought extension of time for that to happen. No assurance was forthcoming from the Minister, and Mr Jones threw his hands in the air and conceded defeat at that time. Nonetheless, the Commerce Committee was assured by officials that there would be no drastic policy change and that they would consult the association on their policy paper due to be released soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EIt was then interesting for us to find out that New Zealand First tabled an amendment to the bill to address the concern raised by the association. The Minister of Commerce then suddenly had a change of heart and was willing to issue a letter of assurance to that group, and New Zealand First duly withdrew the amendment. The Labour Government had the numbers to pass this bill anyway but it had to do a deal with New Zealand First and had to issue that ministerial assurance. So the interesting question is what Labour wants in return for the concession made in this instance, when it did not even have to make one. What price is Labour asking in return for New Zealand First\u2019s concession in this instance? The public should be worried that horse trading is now a blatant part of this Government\u2019s method in situations where such an activity does not even appear to be necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EAs a member of the Commerce Committee I feel despondent and offended because the transparent process in the select committee was overridden. The Minister could have given that assurance to the select committee, because we were all of one mind and we all supported the giving of the assurance. It could have avoided the time delay and upheld the transparency of the select committee, not to mention not causing Mr Shane Jones to lose face. So National\u2014reluctantly, and just for the sake of not causing uncertainty in those sectors\u2014supports these bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00227071a49a83974d72aaacb3139fb3bf78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227071a49a83974d72aaacb3139fb3bf78\u0022\u003EMARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the third reading of the two bills: the Telecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2). It is clear that certainty and efficiency around the communication sector is highly desirable for the economic progress and development of New Zealand and this Government\u2019s economic transformation agenda. These two pieces of legislation are critical, even though they are not major pieces of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Telecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) was, as has been noted by previous speakers, reported back unanimously by the Commerce Committee, and concerns, in fact, a matter of an extension of time because of the imminent expiry of particular telecommunication services in December 2006. Therefore, it is a technical bill and I do not think there is anything of major import in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI come to parts of the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) and will pick up points that were raised previously, by the Minister David Cunliffe in particular. I will come to items about the select committee\u2019s deliberations in a moment. First, when talking about the management rights in the Radiocommunications Act, it should be noted that the present Act provides for management rights and underlying spectrum licences to be created for periods of up to 20 years; this gives certainty of investment. In addition, management rights\u2014termed \u201Csuccessive management rights\u201D\u2014can be created prior to the expiry of existing rights but as separate ones. The Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) allows, in limited circumstances, the aggregation in time of an existing management right and a successive right. This will facilitate an efficient transition from one right to the next and give improved certainty and efficiency in the radiocommunication sector, as rights created from 1990 onwards reach their 20-year expiry date from 2010 onwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Government has already completed the commercial offer and acceptance process for UHF television licences and will soon make offers to holders of licences for AM and FM sound broadcasting services. Policy on renewal offers for cellular services is now being developed. These renewal processes make it clear overall that this Government is committed to creating certainty, on commercial terms, for the major users of the radio frequency spectrum. The bill enhances the legislative environment for such certainty. The present Act has provisions that allow holders of spectrum licences to enter into arbitration regarding alleged interference between licensed frequencies. The criteria for arbitration are altered under the bill to become identical to the considerations used in initial certification of the licences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe bill also allows holders of radio licences to move into the arbitration process. This is an example of how the two distinct regimes are being carefully altered to bring them closer to each other. A residual power remains for the Chief Executive of the Ministry of Economic Development, who grants radio licences in the first instance, to intervene if appropriate. But an agreed arbitrated solution is likely to achieve better outcomes for both parties than a solution using imposed powers of revocation. There was no opposition to these provisions in submissions to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe other provisions amending the Radiocommunications Act facilitate electronic processing by removing references to duplicate copies, ensure correct wording relating to the expiry of successive management rights, improve the efficiency of recovery of unpaid regulation fees, and enact amended regulation-making powers. Concerns were expressed by some submitters about the proposed regulation-making powers in respect of the allocation of radio licences. But the select committee thought that this could be addressed appropriately through liaison with the industry as and when any new regulations were developed, and the Minister concurs with that view. Apart from that point, the other changes that I have just identified were generally supported by submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere was a submission to the select committee seeking a particular amendment to enhance the present transitional provisions of the Act for land mobile services. The legislation as introduced did not deal with such policy matters as this, nor did it propose any changes to the transitional provisions. The select committee concurred that it was inappropriate to modify the legislation to address this topic, but also recognised that the issue will be addressed by a wider policy development process concerning security of tenure of what are at present annually renewed radio licences. Such a wider process can consider not just the concerns of some land mobile licensees but other services, such as fixed point-to-point links, maritime and aeronautical uses, and other similar applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EA Supplementary Order Paper was initiated by New Zealand First, as the previous speaker, Pansy Wong, mentioned. That was done to further address the land mobile issues and has proceeded to the point where we now have the legislation ready for its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E This wider policy development process will give an opportunity for all sectors of industry to provide their views and for a balanced outcome to be achieved. As with all such processes, the Government remains open-minded as to the outcome of the intended discussion paper. Whether the eventual outcome will warrant legislation, obviously cannot be determined at this time, but it is important to welcome the recognition that the wider process is the appropriate mechanism to address these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAll the provisions of the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) are intended to maintain and enhance the efficient operation of the regime prescribed in the Act. The radiocommunication sector is a fast-moving and dynamic section of our economy, but it continues to require infrastructure, investment, and physical assets. In many cases investment in radio spectrum licences or management rights is quite small in comparison with the cost of physical infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee had an amicable consideration of this legislation and, despite the comments of the previous speaker, Pansy Wong, that would impute something to the contrary, it did come down unanimously in support of these two bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u0022311a6ea7fd2048488d0096cfabd5debe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022311a6ea7fd2048488d0096cfabd5debe\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I thank Pansy Wong for her contribution, in which she was able to demonstrate with so much awe and wonder just how New Zealand First is able to punch so much above its weight. There is a lesson in this, because she made a reference to that and asked what Labour wanted out of New Zealand First to be able to gain ground on this issue. It is a lesson on how MMP operates, because I can say this: Labour wanted absolutely nothing. It was purely and simply that the Minister of Communications was prepared to listen to the case we were putting forward, he saw there was some merit in it, and he was able to take the necessary steps to move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EAs Nanaia Mahuta has said, the two bills, which the original legislation has been separated into, are relatively minor and they are relatively technical. She did, however, make the statement that telecommunications is a fast-moving area. I would have to agree with Pansy Wong in terms of one criticism, which is that the Telecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2), which was Part 1 of the Communications Legislation Bill, extends for 2 years some work that should have been completed by December 2006. The Commerce Commission now says it cannot guarantee that it will be finished by 2006. That work was set in place by the Telecommunications Act of 2001. So one would have to raise some questions as to the rapidity with which that work is being carried out. Of the 13 services, only three have, in fact, been completed. Nevertheless, given the situation as it stands, it is eminently sensible to extend the time frame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThe other little issue covered by the legislation, as people will know, is to do with imported cars, particularly Japanese imported cars, which often have limited bands. So people put band expanders into their cars. If the band expanders are standard and decent there are no problems, but some people have been putting in some el cheapo band expanders, which are not standard. They have been interfering in a certain area\u2014I think it is in Christchurch\u2014with the correct usage of the spectrum, and that could have affected the full usage of the spectrum. Therefore, once again, this is sensible legislation and New Zealand First will certainly be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EIt was Part 2 of the Communications Legislation Bill, which has become the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2), that New Zealand First had some issues with. We were not on the Commerce Committee, but we did listen to the issues that were raised, and I will just go through them. When the Radiocommunications Act of 1989 was introduced, it was expected that the spectrum would be moved quickly to the then new management right regime. Spectrum that was identified specifically in the Act for early attention was that used for sound broadcasting, television, cellular services, and land mobile radio. A land mobile radio spectrum was specifically identified in the sixth schedule to the Act. In the ensuing years all such identified spectra, with the sole exception of the land mobile radio spectrum, have been converted to the management right regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThis has resulted in security of tenure for broadcasters and cellular operators, with much of it obtained under the favourable incumbency provisions of the Radiocommunications Act 1989. A recent Government initiative for rolling over early management rights has continued this certainty. Certainty of tenure has permitted such operators to enter into long-term contracts and also to raise investments. The problem was, however, that those using the land radio spectrum have not had such good fortune, because the land mobile radio spectrum was not brought under the management right regime. Therefore, uncertainty hangs over the industry, and investment has been hard to obtain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EWhat the original legislation would have done was to create even more uncertainty, as it seemed to create an environment that made it easier for officials to alienate current users from incumbency rights without compensation. I will just go to the part of the report back from the select committee to which this legislation was referred. It states: \u201CWe heard from an organisation seeking amendment to the transitional provisions in the Radiocommunications Act covering land mobile radio frequencies. We understand the Ministry of Economic Development intends to include a review of these provisions in its work programme. We recommend no amendment to the bill.\u201D There was no minority report and no signalling that there was an issue of concern, which is why New Zealand First had to step into the fray, even though we were not on that select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThe current use of this particular part of the spectrum includes back-up services for emergency services, and the state of insecurity would have continued as a result of this legislation. That would have created a problem as far as New Zealand First was concerned. For example, we were fully aware that during the recent severe snowstorms in southern Canterbury, the only reliable form of communication for a lengthy period of time was dependent upon the very spectrum we are talking about in this legislation. We believe that it needs to be protected and not go to the highest bidder. It is now a matter of history that New Zealand First intervened on behalf of the radio frequency users, and we take our hat off to the Minister David Cunliffe for his willingness to listen and to recognise that not every party has a mortgage on all good ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EMeetings were facilitated between the Minister and the Radio Frequency Users Association, and also between the Minister\u2019s reps and Ministry of Economic Development officials. From those meetings came some memorandums of understanding and some letters. I had a phone call from David Thomson, who said that the Radio Frequency Users Association is now extremely comfortable with the situation it finds itself in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EJust to wind up, although New Zealand First did not play a part in the select committee process, we have played a part in the ensuing process of the second part of this legislation, the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2). We are particularly pleased about the constructive role we played to make sure that the legislation does not lead to a worse situation than what New Zealand now has. New Zealand First is pleased about the role it has played, and will provide its support to these bills as they are now presented to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00227a98d02750914cc5bdbc5b7147bdd0a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a98d02750914cc5bdbc5b7147bdd0a7\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH (National\u2014Piako):\u003C/span\u003E National supports the splitting of the Communications Legislation Bill in this third reading into the Telecommunications Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Radiocommunications Amendment Bill (No 2). We have had some doubts, and we have expressed some views about the legislation during the Committee stage. We are now happy to support the legislation, but with some reservations, which I will just highlight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThere are two main objectives in splitting the legislation into two bills. The first bill amends the Telecommunications Act of 2001 by extending by 2 years\u2014to December 2008\u2014the regulation of 10 of the 13 telecommunications services that were originally regulated under that Act. I will come back to that matter and spend some time specifically on that point. The second bill amends the Radiocommunications Act of 1989 by updating the management of radio spectrum. Radio spectrum management rights run for 20 years, and the legislation allows the aggregation of rights in order to simplify the management process. In addition, adverse impacts of inappropriate receivers, such as the band expanders used in imported Japanese cars, are not to be considered when distributing radio spectrum, as this could limit the full utilisation of available spectrum. An option of arbitration is introduced for resolving disputes between radio broadcasters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EWe support this legislation, although it is mainly of a technical nature. Under the 2001 Act, telecommunications companies can apply to the Commerce Commission for determination on the terms and prices of access to specific services. In 2001 Labour made it very clear that it was setting up a 5-year time frame for the 13 designated services to be investigated by the Commerce Commission. At that time the then Minister of Communications, Paul Swain, proclaimed that the introduction of the legislation would establish a: \u201Cframework for ensuring that the telecommunications industry can move forward in an orderly way.\u201D Well, here we are, with this legislation, having to ask that that 5 years be extended out for another 2 years, because after 5 years only three of the 13 designated services have been investigated. Now the Government is asking for another 2 years to be able to investigate the other 10 services. It is a sad reality of the Government. Although it proclaimed earlier that it was important we move forward, it is now asking for an extension of time from 5 years to 7 years, because it has been able to deal with only three services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAlthough submitters support the extension\u2014because they have come to accept the delays, the slippage, and the missing time frames\u2014I doubt that any business in a competitive environment actually has the luxury of time to be able to extend something for 2 years without having to pay a penalty for that. Otherwise it would find itself in a competitive environment and possibly going out of business. This Labour Government does not understand what makes the world go round. It does not understand this, it has no appreciation of it, and it has no business acumen, at all. It thinks it is all very fine to extend out this period by 2 years. We are happy to support that\u2014reluctantly, as Pansy Wong identified in her speech\u2014but we certainly have those concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EIn completing this short piece for National, I say that we will be supporting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022156db80ab7234ac4983c1977915f9052\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Short but excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228218f4c9c2dc400897356db23d65bf6c\u0022\u003ELINDSAY TISCH\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague Maurice Williamson is an expert in telecommunications, and he has allowed me, as a layman, to speak on the legislation. If we can understand these things in layman\u2019s terms, then we find they actually have more clarity. It is a great honour to take Maurice Williamson\u2019s 10-minute slot to be able to say that we will support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d32aef05501b4b9bab670dd10a572a3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d32aef05501b4b9bab670dd10a572a3b\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou te Whare. I am always wary about rushing bills through the House just because some guru reckons to do so will put us into a bigger, better, and faster world. This stuff all sounds a bit like Star Trek to me. \u201CCaptain James T Cunliffe-Kirk\u201D wants to take us boldly where no man has been before by updating the spectrum regime, tidying up the licensing rules and procedures, and making sure that everybody pays their unpaid fees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe problem with the whole Star Trek analogy, though, is that we have already been here before\u2014on 10 March 1999, to be exact. On that day Rangiaho Everton registered Wai 776 at the Waitangi Tribunal. It was a claim concerning the part of the electromagnetic spectrum known as the radio spectrum, which is used for telecommunications and information technology\u2014the Internet, mobile phones, search and rescue operations, video links, videoconferencing, and all that stuff. At the time, the Crown was planning to hock off the rights to manage part of the radio spectrum for 20 years. Funnily enough, the legislation we have today says exactly the same thing. It is hardly a matter for urgency and hardly next generation stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis legislation is supposed to amend the Telecommunications Act and Radiocommunications Act in order to improve the regulation of the communications sector. But a major issue at the heart of the debate is that of control, and how that relates to the management of spectrum rights. In 1999 Piripi Walker said: \u201CIt was the Crown\u2019s attempts to sell licences to operate portions of the spectrum into private ownership that had provoked Maori claims to the Waitangi Tribunal. Maori were concerned with the Crown\u2019s \u2018commercial approach\u2019, which would see the alienation of the resource to powerful corporations.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIf we fast track forward to today, we see that the same question can be applied to steps being taken to enable the telecommunications sector to catch up with the OECD. The one essential difference between then and now is that the Waitangi Tribunal, in summing up Wai 776, accepted the claimant\u2019s argument that the spectrum was indeed known to M\u0101ori and was a taonga. The tribunal also said that M\u0101ori had a right under the Treaty to the use of that spectrum after 1840, and the right to a decent share of radio frequencies being offered by the Crown. Its finding followed the Report of the Waitangi Tribunal on the Te Reo M\u0101ori Claim, which also said that M\u0101ori language and culture were taonga, which the Crown was bound by article 2 of the Treaty to preserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe tribunal said: \u201CWe think that the two Treaty partners could then work out a long-term plan for the management of future allocations of spectrum rights. As we have suggested above, the ownership and management of spectrum frequencies, perhaps in joint-partnership operations, could facilitate Maori participation in the telecommunications industry.\u201D Yet here we are in 2006, still in the same virtual space and the same virtual time, where getting access to frequencies and spectrum management rights is still blocked by the unwillingness of the Government and bigger industry players. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe have also noted the advice of the Radio Frequency Users Association of New Zealand, whose prime focus is protecting, promoting, and preserving the rights of organisations that need access to the spectrum. The association\u2019s members collectively hold more licences than any group, organisation, or company in Aotearoa other than Telecom. So members can guess how surprised the association was that during the drafting of this legislation, neither it nor its members were consulted. That is kind of like trying to pick the All Blacks without having any rugby players to pick from. One has to ask how the Government can put up legislation to improve the performance of our communications sector without including the players with the greatest expertise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee report stated that the industry would be consulted before rules were made on allocation, but given the Government\u2019s history on the legislation itself and on its consultation with M\u0101ori on M\u0101ori issues, we are not holding our breath. However, the M\u0101ori Party will support this legislation, because it extends the range of services subject to regulation, it enhances the ability of the Telecommunications Commissioner to implement those services, it empowers the commissioner to monitor and enforce compliance effectively, and it provides greater certainty, investment, competition, opportunity, and consumer benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EBut the M\u0101ori Party is also aware of five other golden principles that we believe this legislation could have addressed. I refer to the Treaty principles of partnership, rangatiratanga, fiduciary duty, mutual benefit, and development. In the Waitangi Tribunal claim I mentioned earlier, we note the statements supporting the M\u0101ori right to ongoing resource development as a Treaty right resulting from article 2. Those rights cannot be fossilised as at 1840 and limited to only the resources used back then. They are as current in 2006 as they were in 1999, and as they were in 1840. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ESo, in the ongoing development of the telecommunications and radiocommunications sectors, the M\u0101ori Party would like to remind the Government of the need to involve the Treaty partner fully if our nation is ever to realise its aspirations to be a world leader in information and communications technology. Government plans to encourage the use of information and communications technology must include M\u0101ori shares in the spectrum and M\u0101ori participation in the industry, as determined by the Waitangi Tribunal. The tribunal stated: \u201CMaori must have hands-on ownership and management if they are to foot it in the \u2018knowledge economy\u2019 as we believe they must in the coming millennium.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will support the third reading of the telecommunications and radiocommunications legislation, but we agree with the Radio Frequency Users Association that there needs to be a wider discussion about whether legislative change should be piecemeal, with small but frequent changes, or whether it should be less frequent and more substantial. We agree with the latter, because major issues impacting on the principles of partnership, rangatiratanga, fiduciary duty, mutual benefit, and development still need further discussion and resolution. The M\u0101ori Party, for one, is keen to be there when those discussions are held. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221db85c4a84244730a537b76525b1fc54\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1562f8e3dfb47a6b2626f5212661154\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u00224233d0655052421a9416202d8ed5ac16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224233d0655052421a9416202d8ed5ac16\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Minister of State)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: I move, That the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill be now read a second time. In doing so, I would like to thank the Commerce Committee for its consideration of this bill, as well as those who provided submissions and representations to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe committee\u2019s consideration resulted in a number of enhancements to the existing provisions of the bill. The bill deals with two issues in particular. Firstly, it amends the Climate Change Response Act 2002 to refine the functions of the New Zealand Emissions Unit Registry in respect of greenhouse gases. New Zealand is required to develop and maintain a registry to ensure the accurate accounting of emissions units. Emissions units are defined as the various types of units specified under the Kyoto Protocol. The principal Act allows for only the Crown to hold accounts in the registry, and therefore to hold emissions units. The bill allows individuals to hold accounts in the registry and to trade in emissions units.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003ESo at one level the bill advances mechanisms that will be able to be used in many sectors in the future. For example, the National Party recently said that it is in favour of a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D scheme for the electricity generation sector, which would cap the volume of allowable greenhouse gas emissions in the electricity generation sector, and require generators to purchase emissions units for increases in emissions. The first part of the bill sets out some of the mechanisms to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe select committee made amendments to clauses 5 and 13, and also to clause 23, in order to better protect the property rights and interests of unit and account holders. The committee has amended the bill by providing more specific criteria and circumstances\u2014in which the powers of the Minister of Finance may be exercised to direct units to be transferred\u2014under which the Ministers responsible for the registry may provide a direction to the registrar to close a holding account. The committee has amended clause 23, which limits the bar to bringing an action against the Crown or the registrar to cases where an inaccuracy in the unit register has arisen, by adding that this bar applies only to situations where the Crown has reasonably relied on external information providers. The Government supports these amendments, because they provide better transparency and specificity in order to better protect the rights of unit and account holders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill enables the establishment of the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. Part 2 relates to the development of a mechanism that will allow landowners to access the value of carbon sequestration on land through the establishment of forest sink covenants. This Permanent Forest Sink Initiative provides a business and land-management opportunity, which will be created by New Zealand in this climate change policy. The bill will facilitate the initiative, which has the potential to attract many millions of dollars of investment into the New Zealand economy. It will enable landowners to make better economic and environmental use of their land, particularly isolated and erosion-prone land that is currently marginal, for uses such as agriculture and conventional production forestry. A significant part of that land is owned by M\u0101ori, who stand to gain from the passage of this legislation, which is why the M\u0101ori Party supported the first reading of the bill. The Permanent Forest Sink Initiative provides a world-leading opportunity for landowners to establish forests and obtain Kyoto-compliant carbon credits. There is a further incentive by which afforestation owners will be able to harvest a portion of timber from their forests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe Permanent Forest Sink Initiative will operate through contracts registered against land titles that specify the rights and obligations of the Crown and landowners. Not only does the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative provide economic and environmental opportunities for landowners but it also provides opportunity for domestic and international firms to better manage their greenhouse gas emissions by establishing new forests. Many dividends will flow to New Zealand as a result. Landowners will be able to reap better economic returns through a diversified income stream. From a climate change perspective, new forests planted under the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative are likely also to replace stock numbers on marginal land, thereby reducing some greenhouse gas emissions from the agriculture sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe Permanent Forest Sink Initiative will also facilitate improved flood protection and catchment management, especially in areas where climate change might lead to increased impacts from extreme weather events. It will also aid in the protection of biodiversity, and enhance the quality of our rivers and streams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI support the committee\u2019s recommended amendments to address the issues raised at the select committee, because they clarify the intent of the bill. They also clarify the relationship between the Resource Management Act, the existing provisions in the Forests Act, and the amendments to the Forests Act. The legislation allows for the possibility of the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative to operate on Crown land. The Government intends to move amendments through a Supplementary Order Paper, during the Committee of the whole House. Those amendments will address a number of issues, including those raised by the Legislation Advisory Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI wish to thank again the members of the select committee for their work on this bill, and also those who made submissions to the select committee. I commend the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdec1f54d835416882a3e3c455327272\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdec1f54d835416882a3e3c455327272\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E The mess around this bill is very symptomatic of the whole mess the Government has around climate change policy. This is the first bill, since the election, that we have had on what has been described as one of the most important issues facing humanity, and the Government has rolled out Minister No. 25 in the Government to give the second reading speech on it. Why was that speech not given by the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues? Why was it not given by the Minister for the Environment, or by the Associate Minister? I will tell the House why. It is because the Government is deeply embarrassed by the mess and vacuum in climate change policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a63a0d1c89d44d138f3d04913a0ce966\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f411524733474642a3e62a6c0eb0ea45\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite might explain this to me\u2014that is, the member who is going out of Parliament; I think the member for Rotorua is one of ones that, in the latest poll, is dead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister to explain this to me. This bill was introduced on 3 May last year. When it was introduced, the Government said there was a big rush\u2014that we had to set a very tight timetable for the Commerce Committee to report back. Submissions were limited to only 3 weeks. It was a truncated select committee process, and the bill was reported back to the House on 28 July 2005. The Government said the bill was so urgent that it had to be reported back to the House immediately. What has the Government done for 15 months on this bill? Maybe the Minister can explain that. Why, after the urgency and the truncated select committee process, did the bill then sit on the bottom of the Order Paper for 15 months? Well, the Government\u2019s climate change\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cc7050b819a44ac8ee86fc8966c1e74\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The member is missing the point, again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223493ca968a414d16b9ec03b42b94775a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Can Mr Hughes explain that? Can he answer a simple question? Why, when the select committee process was truncated because there was such a rush, has this bill sat on the Order Paper for 15 months at the bottom of the list? The member does not want to answer that question, because he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aff4bfc711b24d17b6e3e9fd7af5225b\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Absolute nonsense! Don\u2019t talk politics; talk climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efe02553c0cd4b5eb2bd7faf3f0e0d4b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is not absolute nonsense, at all. The member says we should talk about climate change policy. Well, I am very keen to, because the Government\u2019s policy is as big a farce as is the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E Let us look at this Government\u2019s record on climate change policy. Even the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment says there is a vacuum in Government climate change policy. This Government has been in office for 7 years, yet we have no idea what this country should be doing in respect of climate change. Let us look at some of the Government\u2019s track record. It came out with an animal emissions levy. Do members remember that? It was abandoned. The Government had a policy that New Zealand should sign up to and ratify the Kyoto Protocol, because we would make $500 million. Do members remember that? Well, it is now acknowledged in the Government\u2019s books, after some dirty, sneaky manoeuvres during the election campaign when the Government tried to hide this, that rather than making hundreds of millions of dollars, the poor old New Zealand taxpayer will be up for $500 million - plus as a consequence of this Government\u2019s aborted mess around climate change policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen we had the carbon tax. Do members remember that? The Government announced that the answer to climate change was the carbon tax. At the last election Labour members said that\u2014[Interruption] I am coming to that, I tell the member. I know that member belongs to a Government that has no policy. We have one, and I want to talk about it. What Labour said about the carbon tax is quite extraordinary. When it was dumped, the Minister in charge of it said that he was dumping it because it was not going to work. We had been telling him that for 12 months. There was no evidence at all that a carbon tax of $15 a tonne would have any effect on the amount of petroleum that was used or burnt. But we had a different message from the Prime Minister. She said that the policy was dumped because the Government could not get the numbers for it in the House. So today I ask the Minister in charge of the bill, who is right: David Parker or the Prime Minister? The silence is absolutely deafening. He has no idea. The reality is that Labour made a mess of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us go through some of the other things. We had a policy of tendering projects to reduce emissions. What happened to that? It was cancelled. We had a policy on reducing waste and improving energy efficiency; it was a real ripper. The Government spent $100 million on its Energy Efficiency and Conservation Strategy, and after 6 years energy efficiency had become worse. That reminds me of the Department of Corrections. I know that the Minister who moved the second reading of this bill has no climate change responsibilities at all, but he is the Associate Minister of Corrections. The Department of Corrections had a programme called Straight Thinking, and the people who did Straight Thinking had a higher reoffending rate than those who did not do the programme. The Government\u2019s Energy Efficiency and Conservation Strategy has been as big a disaster as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI ask the Government this. After 7 years in office, and after all the rhetoric about greenhouse gas emissions, why have New Zealand\u2019s emissions gone up at three times the rate of the United States\u2019 and four times the rate of Australia\u2019s? We get all these speeches from Labour members damning the United States and George Bush about climate change, yet they are four times worse than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e310a4d49c544d3b7556367f2221dce\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: The member is making it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229972f17d62cb4285b9ae446915904b77\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member says I am making it up. Let me ask this question: is the Government making up its submissions and its reporting to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change? Oh, it is not. Let me give members the figures. The figures that were submitted to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change show that New Zealand\u2019s emissions have gone up at four times the rate of the United States\u2019 and three times the rate of Australia\u2019s. Every Government member should be hiding his or her head in shame. In fact, I challenge Government members to tell me a country, any country in the world, whose emissions have gone up by more than New Zealand\u2019s under this Government. Can they tell me any country that has done worse than New Zealand\u2014any country whose emissions have gone up by more than New Zealand\u2019s? They are silent because they simply do not know. There is no country that has done that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn the wake of that policy vacuum, we in the National Party have said it is time some leadership was provided around the issue of climate change. We produced a blue-green vision for New Zealand that provides a very sensible approach to the issue of climate change. One of the great tragedies is that during Labour\u2019s period in Government, the amount of electricity produced from coal has trebled. We all know that coal is the least friendly way in which to generate electricity, so I would love a Labour member to explain why the biggest growth in electricity production in New Zealand, where we have all sorts of renewable energy options\u2014geothermal, wind, and hydro generation\u2014has come from the dirtiest source, which is coal. National has said that a sensible way forward is a tradable emissions permit system; that is what we have put on the table. We have said we should apply that system to the electricity sector first, and that we will recognise the people who plant forests to absorb carbon, because that is good for the environment. Planting forests reduces erosion and absorbs carbon out of the atmosphere, and that provision is one of the more useful provisions in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENational will be supporting the second reading of this bill. It does provide for a sensible system of tradable emissions permits, and that is where we want to go forward. But I really believe that the Government has to fill the vacuum that exists in climate change policy. Where the Government is at, at the moment, is a disgrace. It is an embarrassment for New Zealand. It is a disgrace for a country that wants to stand on its environmental credentials. New Zealand has had one Government policy disaster after another. I would like to know why it is that the Minister\u2014whether it is the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues, the Minister for the Environment, or even the Associate Minister for the Environment\u2014has not been prepared to contribute to this debate and move the second reading of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe final point I make is to ask why the Government truncated the select committee process, reducing it to only a few weeks last year and saying that this bill was urgent, yet has allowed the bill to sit on the Order Paper for 15 months. That just shows the depth of the Government\u2019s indecision\u2014the depth of the vacuum\u2014and the lack of policy from this Government around this very, very important issue. So the Government has stuffed up. Leadership must be left to National in order to clean up the mess. We are happy to provide that leadership. The sooner the Government calls it quits, the better it will be. Let some real solutions be put forward with regard to climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdf22c5de14a48988eb3726ea00a7003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdf22c5de14a48988eb3726ea00a7003\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I might disappoint the Opposition member by not being the Minister for the Environment or the Associate Minister, but I want to say a few things about this bill today. Labour has a very large caucus that is very interested in green issues. I acknowledge that Dr Nick Smith does appear to be almost a lone voice over there in National. He is trying to convince his colleagues to adopt a more blue-green policy platform. I acknowledge that, and I think it is very creditable. But it is a bit rich, when the Opposition refused to sign up to Kyoto, to carp and whimper in the House about New Zealand\u2019s commitment to Kyoto and talk about a vacuum. The member opposite knows why we had to change our mechanism at the end of last year. He also knows that the election got in the way of what is a very good Climate Change Response Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI am very glad that the Nats are now starting to come around the table to discuss a sensible way forward for carbon trading and climate change. The poor Nats\u2014and this is the fundamental problem\u2014have never had a big group in their caucus to sign up to green issues, so they have never been very keen to do anything about those issues. Carbon trading was Dr Smith\u2019s position at the conference held just this month\u2014in October. But his own leader\u2014when we talk about leadership\u2014Dr Brash, said: \u201CAs you will be aware, the document is just a discussion document at this stage. It\u2019s not set in concrete, and the proposals of the National Party, we\u2019re not saying we\u2019re going to do them. We\u2019re not saying we\u2019re going to do A, B, and C.\u201D That is what the Leader of the Opposition said when Dr Smith stood up, with a good document and a way forward. Dr Smith was not supported by his leader this very month, when he went to that conference. So where does that leave the Opposition? Slightly embarrassed, I would have to say, at seeing the Leader of the Opposition wearing his parka and out on a forest walk. That is not his natural territory for walking the talk, but he had a go and it was a good look.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e367a1aecb624b3fa22da8efe36f25b1\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: We have been talking about the Government\u2019s commitment to address climate change and the acceptance of the reality of climate change. In this House there definitely is quite a moveable feast in terms of a commitment to address climate change. Government members accept that climate change is real and that we have to do something about it. We also accept that there were some delays in reporting this bill back to the House because an election got in the way of that. Dr Brash, the Leader of the Opposition\u2014for a little longer, but spring is in the air, and climate change is certainly showing us some weather pattern changes here that are very real and cannot be ignored\u2014is still not convinced of the science on climate change. I think the Hon Dr Nick Smith has a little more work to do to convince his leader\u2014his leader until the end of spring, probably\u2014that climate change is real and we need to do something about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Climate Change Response Act 2002. With the amendments that have come through, it certainly refines the functions of New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions registry unit. What is important in this bill is that it sets up that registry. The Government is committed to the Kyoto policies on emissions, as defined under the Kyoto Protocol. We have never swayed from that. National members have said that they are in favour of a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D scheme for the electricity generation sector, in which greenhouse emissions are capped and generators are required to purchase units for increases in emissions. That is quite a reasonable approach, but I think National has to be just a little more patient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of a subset of climate change announcements that have begun to roll out from Minister David Parker\u2019s office, and I think we will see a lot more work come out on this issue. It is important work, it is detailed work, and it is work that we need the support of the Green Party and other parties on, to actually bind us all into it, because it is very important for New Zealand\u2019s future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe bill enables the establishment of a Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. That is to be applauded, and it has been well received by the forestry sector. It will attract investment and enable better economic and environmental use of land. That has been a great concern for those farmers who have difficult aspects on their farms that they cannot farm satisfactorily, and who would like to put that marginal land into forestry and also get some returns for doing that. That is very, very important. We will find more and more tracts of our land that have been difficult to farm become afforested, with this Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe Permanent Forest Sink Initiative provides us with a world-leading opportunity, and I am sure everybody in this House agrees that we need to do something like it. We felt great despair when we saw how readily people would convert good forestry land into agricultural land because of the exchange rate. That was not good around our area, where we have seen the conversion of forest into farm land. It is also not good, environmentally, for our lakes and for sustainable lake water management. As a further incentive for afforestation, owners will be able to harvest a proportion of the timber from their forests. The initiative will operate through contracts, registered against land titles, that specify the rights and obligations of both the Crown and the landowner. Not only does the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative provide economic and environmental opportunities for landowners but also it provides opportunities for domestic and international firms to better manage their greenhouse gas emissions, by establishing new forests. With our commitment to the Kyoto Protocol, that is what we need to see in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ELots of dividends will flow as a result of the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. Landowners will get an economic stream that is quite diversified. At the moment they are often locked into either forestry or agriculture. From a climate change perspective, the new forests that are planted under the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative are also likely to reduce stock numbers on marginal land, thereby reducing some of the greenhouse gas emissions from stock. I think that is very important. It is what this Government tried to achieve last year when it brought in the emissions policy that was so soundly panned by the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI think this is a great bill. It is one of a subset of policy announcements that will come out from this Government, which is working really well, with the support of the Green Party and our coalition partners. Those announcements will aggregate up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df84d9fd57648949a17bf38990f867f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The member does not believe that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022649937e72a3d489fb1ebb13590d19cf9\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do believe in the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. I think it is fantastic, and I am pleased to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222e2bdb18060645dcb611f8b4dfb73b13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e2bdb18060645dcb611f8b4dfb73b13\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to make a contribution on the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill. National believes that this is an area where we have had considerable mixed messages and impractical solutions from the Government. We will be supporting this legislation, but we give notice that we want to bring in a number of amendments at the Committee stage. Let me talk, firstly, about the mixed messages, then I will spend some time addressing the impracticalities of the proposed solutions, and then I will talk about some of the decisions that could flow from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EGovernment members say we must enact this legislation, yet New Zealand\u2019s own performance on climate change under the stewardship of the Labour-led coalition has been such that we are performing much worse than the other countries that the Government has held up to ridicule, such as Australia and the USA. In fact, we are doing three and four times worse than those other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThen there is our internal policy. We have a Government that says yes, it buys into the issue of climate change, and that it is an important and a crucial issue. I agree that climate change is an issue that we have to deal with. If members look at this bill, they will see some provisions around protecting forestry rights, as a way forward\u2014and yes, we all acknowledge the sequestration of greenhouse gases, particularly carbon dioxide, into forestry sinks. But the Government\u2019s biggest farmer, Landcorp, has cleared 25,000 hectares in the central North Island. The process has not stopped there. Other speculators have said there is an opportunity, with the leadership the Government has given, to redevelop land for dairying or other land uses. So that process does not stop just with the 25,000 hectares cleared by Landcorp. That is the first big mixed message from the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThen there is the Government\u2019s performance in renewable energy. What has it done? It has quashed the Dobson dam project, Project Aqua, the Tuapeka dam project, and any other opportunity that has been out there. Yes, there has been a little investment in wind farms, but not a great lot. There has been no real promotion of other forms of renewable energy. The Government has stepped up production from coal-fired generators, so we have gone into thermal energy, whereby we are adding to the greenhouse gas emissions. That is the second mixed message from the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EAt the same time as the Government is making noises internationally that climate change is an important issue, the Prime Minister came to Southland and said that New Zealand\u2019s future needs for electricity would be met by burning lignite in Southland. Well, I have news for her: I do not think that is a good idea, and the people of Southland have some other ideas about what lignite can be used for in Southland, as well. Again, that is another indication that the Government does not have a plan that will actually deliver what it is promising to the international community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI have just come from a presentation by Rio Tinto Aluminium\u2014well, the T\u012Bwai Point plant is still called New Zealand Aluminium Smelters. I just look at what that company has done. It is a working example of what can happen with the right kind of stimulus. The company has not had that from the Government; it has got it from its international connections and the need to produce a product that shows it is doing something. In the last 15 years it has reduced its greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent. Yes, the company is the biggest producer of greenhouse gases in New Zealand. I do not know what the figure is, but I would suggest that it is around 15 to 18 percent of all greenhouse gases in New Zealand. So the Government will get its beady eye on that plant and say: \u201CHa, ha! We need to close this down, and then we will look good internationally.\u201D Because we have had so many other mixed messages, I do not trust the Government not to be thinking about doing that, particularly because that would release some electricity to be available for other users, and the Government has not had a plan for electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EIt is a matter of fact that out of the aluminium smelter at T\u012Bwai Point, for every tonne of aluminium that is produced there are two tonnes of greenhouse gases. The Government would say that that is horrible\u2014that it is terrible\u2014but I ask members to wait. You see, when we pick up and settle ourselves into a Kyoto agreement that excludes China, India, Singapore, the Philippines, and wherever else, that is the nonsense and the mixed message this Government is giving. The T\u012Bwai Point smelter produces 2 tonnes of greenhouse gases per tonne of aluminium produced, but there are 18, or maybe now 19, smelters in China\u2014I do not know the number, because it is a growing feast\u2014and over there nine tonnes of greenhouse gases are produced for every tonne of aluminium produced. So if we closed the aluminium smelter at Bluff, an idea that I am sure has crossed the fertile mind of the Labour Government in order to look good internationally, the slack will be picked up by a much dirtier, less progressive smelter somewhere in China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe should be supporting aluminium production, and I will tell members why we should. Even though two tonnes of greenhouse gases are produced for every tonne of aluminium produced at T\u012Bwai Point, the payback in the transport industry is multiplied by 20. If we put 100 kilograms of aluminium into a vehicle and reduce its weight so that in its lifetime the payback is times 20, we will get two tonnes back for every 100 kilograms. So one tonne of aluminium will give back 20 tonnes when invested in the transport industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe must stop giving mixed messages to New Zealand. The year 2005 was the worst-ever year for forestry in New Zealand. The Government has been talking of sequestration into forest carbon banks, and for the first time in perhaps four or five decades, there has been less planting than harvesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd84b59aac274503a1a245f9ac6b659a\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: 46 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d3ecffb69bc43168db1dc452b523f2b\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: There we go\u2014nearly 50 years. Why has that happened? It has happened because of mixed messages. The Government has said it will not give people a future they can bank on, so people are out there harvesting their trees. They are cutting their trees down, and there is no incentive for them to replant. I know, and I accept, that there is changing land use and that other viabilities are out there, but the key factor has been that there is no blueprint we can hold on to. There is a mixed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb53fe0e491f444a9704a73d05a26152\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: No leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c579297d84d47c0a13082980d3f9c94\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: The member for Kaikoura, Colin King, is absolutely right. There is no leadership. All that we are getting is mixed messages, and we say that this bill gives us a variety of mixed messages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe had the Government look at our forests and at what members thought were our carbon credits. The Government said: \u201CHa, ha! There are about 500 million, or 600 million\u2014terrific! That will look good on the balance sheet; that will let us buy another election; we can add that to the $11.5 billion. Oh, boy, what can we buy with that?\u201D. But I say: \u201CAh, ha\u2014it is a billion-dollar bungle.\u201D, because in actual fact the calculation was wrong. That is another reason why buying into that Kyoto thing was a very, very silly idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5341c81f664225a556a1cf7e2202a4\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022979e4cf2756c4f32bd993984a5fdb7ee\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, absolute rubbish! The member is quite right; it was a rubbish thing to do. It was rubbish for all sorts of reasons. The member wants to create a world bureaucracy, but who will get the job of counting the carbon credits in Russia? Russia said that, hey, it was not entering into the Kyoto Protocol, then it went and recalculated its number to get 36 billion tonnes, or some colossal number, so that it could then go out and say that it was in credit. So of course it signed the protocol. But who is going to go and audit that process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe need to have clear messages about a way forward. Yes, I accept, and National accepts, that we should be doing our part\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf420b1982a4084a279ba640c36eade\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: This speech is not a clear message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf9c8b0a5c049e0b847ee335d124c4f\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: I know the member is interested; I can see him paying attention. But we actually need to have a clear message. We need to have something that is not a placebo or platitude, but is something that will actually deliver. Kyoto is nothing more than a talkfest. We need to take responsibility here, we need to work in international forums, and we need to include countries like China, India, Singapore, and the Philippines, which are not now included. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce243caa45744a36a32f74896143cdf8\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member answer a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022379fbfc810a640c59858bded4989abef\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Unless the member accepts that responsibility, anything we do here will shift dirty industries to countries that are not included in that protocol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWe say that this bill is a small step, but we want the Government to give some leadership on climate change. We are keen to be involved, and we want to see a practical solution. We want to see some clarity around the rules that are out there, and we want to see New Zealand buying into a future that is sustainable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5c7bfa4a38f4fa2a1ac0ae6df3acac9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5c7bfa4a38f4fa2a1ac0ae6df3acac9\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I always listen intently to the member who has just resumed his seat, because he normally makes some very good comments. But he laboured on, talking about mixed messages and unclear messages, for quite some time, so I want to ask the House how this is for a mixed message, taken from the commentary on the bill. The heading is \u201COpposition members view (New Zealand First, New Zealand National, and ACT New Zealand)\u201D, and the paragraph states: \u201COpposition members oppose this bill on the grounds that New Zealand should not be implementing the Kyoto Protocol ahead of our major trading partners.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd0acb6ab2f4b5f80bb2032a6fdd840\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014absolutely right. We haven\u2019t shifted from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220013ec59ae7e4f4588222bbbea3b15a3\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I thought that the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9a0ad8b25a84da689e817e78d68c43c\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: No, we want to give leadership; we want to get the solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efeb086661384e93bb600035e500d460\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want to get into a debate with the member, but I could have sworn he said that he was going to support the bill, when here it says he is not. New Zealand First will oppose this bill, for two principal reasons. The first reason is that we do not believe we should be ahead of our trading partners in terms of the Kyoto Protocol. Secondly\u2014and we have fuelled this quite a lot this evening\u2014there are people in New Zealand who are worried witless about climate change. I have to say that that is unnecessarily so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to greenhouse gas emissions in this country, 50 percent comes from farming. The honourable member who has just spoken did not refer to that, at all, and he is a farmer. The other 50 percent comes largely from energy plants, and whatever. But on a global scale New Zealand greenhouse gases do not register. They are a fraction of a percent. If we want to address the issue of climate change\u2014and I am talking \u201Cwe\u201D now as internationally\u2014then we have to target the big guys: the Americans, the Chinese, the Indians, the Brits, and the Europeans. On a per capita basis, when it comes to energy and carbon dioxide, our emissions are very moderate. When we take our population of only 4 million people, that is only a very modest amount of greenhouse gases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EBut if we look at China, for example, on a per capita basis we see a very low emission per person, but 100 times more greenhouse gases are produced than by New Zealand. Australia produces double, on a per capita basis, to that of this country. In total it is ten times more than this country, but that is from a population only five times greater than ours. If we look at the USA, we see it produces double in terms of greenhouse gases on a per capita basis, but it emits 152 times the greenhouse gas emissions of this country. Britain is about the same on a per capita basis, but it produces 15 times the amount New Zealand emits. And so it goes on, and some of those countries generate power from nuclear plants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ECoal gets a lot of blame for the production of greenhouse gases. Coal in this country produces about 8 percent of our electricity. In China, coal produces 78 percent. In Australia, the figure is 79 percent, and in America it is 50 percent. An article in the Dominion Post sometime last week reported that the Americans are building coal-fired power stations like nothing on earth. By the year 2030, 57 percent of their power will be generated by coal-fired power stations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe solution to the problem of greenhouse gases, when it comes to coal, is not banning coal-fired power stations, because obviously countries are not doing that. China is building them. India is building them. Australia is building them. The solution is exactly what John Howard said only 2 days ago in a radio interview: \u201CA major part of the Government\u2019s policy on climate change is to accelerate the development of new technologies which reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the use of fossil fuels.\u201D That will be the solution to greenhouse gas emissions, particularly from coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0a38bcb74004873beac1d0311eb2539\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: What if it doesn\u2019t work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb8940db00b48fdabb3f3f9065cbff0\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The member says: \u201CWhat if it doesn\u2019t work?\u201D. These countries are pouring billions of dollars into it. Australia is pouring in millions of dollars and the Yanks, the Americans, are pouring in billions of dollars. For the member\u2019s information, Genesis Energy and Solid Energy New Zealand Ltd are spending significant sums of money in Australia, on research there, to address the problems of coal. I am told that the theory works now but that the cost of implementing has to be brought down. I say to the honourable member that I tend to believe that the scientists, the people who are working on the issue full time, day in, day out, will have it addressed in the foreseeable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe must not lose sight of the fact that the average New Zealander is exceedingly concerned about climate change, and New Zealand First is concerned about climate change. But let me say this, and let me say it as clearly as I possibly can: there is nothing in this country that we can do as average citizens that will address the problem in any meaningful way, at all. The problem lies elsewhere. We can do whatever anybody thinks we ought to do to address the problem\u2014we can plant trees and goodness knows what\u2014but it will not do anything meaningfully on a worldwide basis. This is a worldwide problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EI say to the honourable member who is sitting close by me that scientists tell me that trees absorb carbon dioxide. They also tell me that pasture, with a predetermined level of topsoil, will also do that. So we can absorb almost as much, if not as much, carbon dioxide by putting land into pasture. I am not a scientist, but I believe what scientists tell me, and I know that this information comes from dedicated people who are spending their lives addressing the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First opposes this bill. We oppose it not because we are anti-environment or anti-climate change, but because we want to keep the debate alive. We know that many, many New Zealanders are being scared witless by the rhetoric in this House. They are hearing statements\u2014and we have heard a few of them this afternoon and this evening\u2014that make them feel guilty about putting on their lights, let alone their one-bar electric heaters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThis is a problem that will be solved in time, but it will be solved in time by technology\u2014not by New Zealanders planting trees. We should plant trees to address erosion problems, so let us do that. But we should not fool ourselves that by planting thousands of trees we will solve the world\u2019s climate change problem. If the member thinks that then she might as well think that the pig that is flying around here is real. New Zealand First\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcfe732b8bf94875ac9bc52c82d04d03\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a world problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022262af7fc03ca400f8367201db5190f15\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly what I have just been saying\u2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e79e9fa59a964e3eb525dd0043e7a643\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re only a tiny little planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022724332c099ca4b91b3b909cb6e9a009f\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: We are a tiny little player\u2014and I appreciate the echo coming from behind\u2014on the world scene, and we cannot do anything to address the problem in a meaningful way. All we are doing, to a very large extent, is scaring witless the average New Zealander who is concerned about this issue. We in New Zealand First say that we should get this matter into perspective. If we want to address climate change on a global basis, then to a very large extent it will come down to the Americans. It will come down to the Brits, the Europeans, the Chinese, the Indians, and the Australians. New Zealand\u2019s attempt to help the problem by growing trees and what have you will have negligible, if any, effect whatsoever on climate change. New Zealand First will be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u00221a09f710ec904b1c9b255acee8abc318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a09f710ec904b1c9b255acee8abc318\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E We have just heard the modern equivalent of the old colonial attitude that one Englishman is worth 20 Chinamen. We are told that a country that has a quarter of the world\u2019s people is the problem, when that country is producing far less than a quarter of the world\u2019s emissions. We are told that somehow it is the Chinese who are at fault and that New Zealanders are OK, even though one New Zealander produces about eight times the emissions of one Chinese. Well, I do not subscribe to that old colonial mentality. I actually think that every human being on this earth has equal entitlement to the atmosphere, and that is the basis on which we should set climate policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EIt is true that New Zealand cannot solve this one on its own. Neither can the United States nor any one country. The United States produces about 25 percent of the world\u2019s emissions. If that stopped and the rest of the world kept going, we would still be in deep trouble. China produces less than that. If China stopped and the rest of the world kept going, we would still be in deep trouble. We have to play our part or we will not have any credibility when we try to negotiate on the world scene for a collective agreement to improve the climate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Greens strongly support the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. This second reading is hugely overdue. We were very hopeful that the bill would be passed before the election and be in force by now. I want to look at what has happened since this bill was reported back in, I believe, July last year. That is 15 months or so ago. The signs that climate change is accelerating have become incontrovertible. The climate-deniers no longer have a case. Whether we are talking about the ice-melt, the slowing of the Gulf Stream, Greenland and the glaciers, the acidification of the oceans attacking the base of the marine food chain\u2014creatures that need calcium to form their shells\u2014or methane being released from the warming of the Tundra, the signs of accelerating climate change are so worrying that many scientists say we are at a tipping point. If we do not do something very urgently it will be too late to prevent a runaway effect. That is one lot of things that has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EAlso, in July last year both major parties had policies on climate change. Now, neither does. Well, that is progress is it not? Last July National had a policy of being opposed to the Kyoto Protocol and to doing anything about it, and it used every opportunity in the House to question whether climate change was real and to deny that New Zealand should be taking action because of these so-called trading partners. Labour had a policy package that contained some flaws but, nevertheless, some strengths too. That was abandoned in December. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ENational now has a consultation document out, and I congratulate it on that. I also congratulate it on taking climate change seriously now and seeking a policy solution. That is good. It is also generally supporting a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D system. OK, that is something we can work with. Labour is developing a policy on climate change, which we will see some time soon. But neither of those parties has policy in place, unlike the Greens, who have had policy for a very long time and developed it further in March this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe other thing that has happened since July last year is that New Zealand\u2019s forests have shrunk for the first time in many decades. We are now clearing more forests than we are planting, and that is a tragedy in terms of the climate. It is a tragedy in terms of many land-use issues, as well. It is partly because of the policy limbo we have been in for a while and it is partly because of the exchange rate, wood prices, and very high dairy prices, and so on. But there are huge clearances under way now, where forests are going and the land is being converted to livestock farming. One can see the smoke as one stands on the top of Maungatautere mountain in the Waikato, unable to see to the south because of the pall of smoke rising from the burning slashed forests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EClearance for livestock, of course, gives us a double whammy. Not only do we lose the carbon stored in the forest\u2014we lose our sink\u2014but when animals are put on the land the methane emissions increase. So we are getting both less sink and more sources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E We urgently need to recognise the carbon that the foresters store in their forests and make some payment for that. But not by simply handing credits, with the obligations that they entail for guarantees forever into the future, to companies with short-term thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe Permanent Forest Sink Initiative is a good programme. We are told that it will require the maintenance of a continuous canopy\u2014no clear-felling\u2014and that there will be a limited opportunity for harvesting for high-quality timber, which is another benefit to the economy. There will then, of course, be other benefits. Afforestation on steeper land, which will be the cheapest land to afforest permanently, will reduce erosion, improve water quality, reduce flooding and improve flood control, and it will provide a habitat for biodiversity that does not disappear every 25 years with clear-felling. Those are huge environmental benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI have met a number of forestry companies that are just waiting for this bill to go through in order to take up the commercial opportunities that it offers. Some of them want to plant native production forests with continuous canopy; that is something that we badly need. Some of them want to plant high-value exotics for the same purpose; that will be a very welcome diversification from pine. Some of them are forming exciting new partnerships with M\u0101ori using M\u0101ori land with M\u0101ori benefiting economically from that, and with the forestry company providing the expertise and the investment capital. Those are very productive partnerships. I know of one with Ng\u0101ti Porou; I am sure that there are others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EClimate change will accelerate extreme weather events. It will make the flooding worse. It will make the erosion worse. It will make the droughts worse. We need to plant that steep land urgently for a whole raft of reasons in addition to carbon storage. I said earlier that we are told that the rules will entail all these things. But there is actually nothing in the bill at all about what the requirements will be on foresters planting these permanent sinks. I am sure that the policy is firm at the moment and that the regulations that will be written under the bill will express that policy. But what happens in the future? What happens if we have a Government that decides to weaken the rules, that no longer requires long-term guarantees, and says \u201COh, yes you can clear fell if you like as long as you plant.\u201D, and all the rest of it? It is a little bit worrying that the bill leaves it all to regulations because they are so easy to change without coming back to Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI comment, finally, on the statement we hear so often in this House that we should not ratify the Kyoto ahead of our trading partners. Let us really be clear about what this means. The Bonn Agreement in 1995, which set up the basis for negotiating Kyoto, said that all countries can be party to it. Only OECD countries will take targets to limit their carbon for the first period, because it is the OECD countries whose emissions have overwhelmingly caused the climate change we are all now experiencing. The developing countries still need to feed their people. They will look at taking binding commitments when the OECD countries have acted. China, India, and the rest are waiting to see what the developed world does in the first commitment period. If, by 2012, none of us have met our commitments, do not expect them to come into a future agreement. The only way we will get those countries in is to demonstrate that we can do it, and to develop the technology to help them do it as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESo what is happening? There was never any rort about China not being part of the agreement. China participates in clean development mechanisms. China is putting in more photovoltaics than any other country in the world. It is manufacturing more photovoltaics than any other country in the world. It is taking clean energy and energy efficiency extremely seriously, and its emissions would be a great deal worse by now if it had not done that. So let us give China a break. Let us say that they have got a right to feed their people and have jobs for their people. They have a quarter of the world\u2019s people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ELet us show what we can do with all the benefits of our developed technology, our developed economies, the capital we have, and lead the way, then those other countries will follow. The only OECD countries that have not ratified are the United States and Australia. Yes, we trade with them. We also trade in a major way with Europe who are taking this more seriously than any other block of countries. So let us be real. Let us play our part in the OECD, of which we are a part, to show a way forward for the world that the other countries can follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u00221bfcb6f41f1049d7bc670c0d77ed5853\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bfcb6f41f1049d7bc670c0d77ed5853\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. We are slowly, but surely, killing Ranginui and Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, our parents, and we must quickly reverse the situation and care for them. The Climate Change Response Amendment Bill provides us with a mechanism by which we can do this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe year 2005 has been reported as the first year that ice in the Arctic continued to melt well into the end of September, resulting in the biggest annual melt since records began. Aotearoa suffered two major floods in Gisborne in as many months, and we have endured major flooding at home in Whanganui and the Rangitikei, and in the Bay of Plenty. We have had droughts in Hawke\u2019s Bay, Otago, Marlborough, and Tasman. Human activity resulting in emissions of greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide, have significantly added to, or even produced, this effect over the last century. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EAnd so it is, in this context, that the M\u0101ori Party welcomes the return to this House of the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill. The bill sets up two mechanisms. It allows individuals to trade in emission units and it establishes a mechanism to allow landowners to access the value of carbon in their forests. In essence this means the Crown is able to give tradable emission units in exchange for carbon. The Crown will devolve tradable carbon emission units equal to the carbon contained in permanent forest sinks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ESo what does this mean in practice? Just over a month ago Christchurch City Council approved the sale of carbon credits to British Gas. The sale hit all the papers, as it was New Zealand\u2019s first overseas carbon credit sale to a private sector buyer and would generate more than $3 million in revenue for the council over 5 years between 2008 and 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThis is where the M\u0101ori Party turns to the genuine progress index for some guidance. The M\u0101ori Party has advocated for a genuine progress index as providing a measure of comprehensive, sustainable, and inclusive advancement. The index distinguishes between positive contributions to progress, for example, a reduction in greenhouse gas, and negative activity, such as industrial pollution. The genuine progress index enables nations and communities to look critically and systematically at the massive challenges in front of us with climate change, over-population, over-consumption, wastage, peak oil, oil depletion, and GDP growth. And this is the crunch issue, because although it is, of course, positive that the allocation of carbon credits recognises the progress made in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, the challenge lies in the thinking behind the dealing being done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has consistently supported the philosophy behind carbon tax and carbon credits as a key means of providing incentives to industry polluters to control and reduce their emissions. But the value of exchanging carbon credits\u2014trading them off with other countries, countries that are polluting the environment\u2014seems to be rather confused logic. Let us trace back the history to this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIn December 2004 the Government awarded the Christchurch City Council 200,000 carbon credits, or emission reduction units, for the capture and transport of methane gas from the closed Burwood Landfill to Queen Elizabeth II Park Stadium Sports Centre and Fun Park to heat and power the sports facility. All praise where praise is due: it is a great initiative that this project will turn waste into a resource through the capture and use of landfill gas that might have otherwise have escaped into the environment, contributing to climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ELandfills generate methane, one of the worst greenhouse gases, as organic matter decomposes. So when methane is burnt, it is converted to carbon dioxide, which reduces its climate impact by a factor of 20:1. In some pretty impressive number crunching by the council, we are told that by capturing the methane gas in this way the carbon emissions avoided by this project equal 10,900 cars taken off the road each year. Now 11,000 cars cannot be sneered at. We absolutely commend the council on being awarded these credits, made through the Projects to Reduce Emissions programme, and support it as part of an innovative approach taken at local government level in meeting commitments under the Kyoto Protocol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EBut where we do have some questions is in relation to the ethical issue around the trade off of carbon credits to a private sector buyer. Under the genuine progress index one could not count the fact that credits have been traded for commercial gain as an example of genuine progress. For what changes? The industry\u2014British Gas, in this example\u2014is still polluting, but now it has credits up its sleeve by a commercial transaction with New Zealand. It does not seem to add up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EOf course, there are many other players that are supportive of schemes created in this bill. We know, for instance, that Ng\u0101ti Porou Wh\u0101nui Forests support the concepts, as they and other iwi can make income by trading the carbon credits accumulated in their forest assets. They could also create further employment by planting trees they otherwise would not have planted, as it would have been uneconomic to do so. It also means that they can plant trees that previously would not have returned an immediate income stream as quickly as exotic forests. It may mean the return of the slower growing indigenous species and the creation of nurseries specialising in indigenous tree species. They can make money before the harvesting of the forests. It is a totally new income stream. They can also make money by planting permanent and indigenous forests on isolated or erodible land not suitable for farming and harvesting forestry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EBut the M\u0101ori Party would ask: is not the whole issue of climate change about reducing greenhouse gas emissions? If industry polluters are able to purchase carbon credits to offset their polluting emissions yet still do not make any efforts to reduce emissions, does not the actual problem still remain? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe question of how New Zealand deals with climate change is an issue of hot debate on which we have many outstanding questions, and we look to the Committee stage for their resolution. We know that M\u0101ori have repeatedly called for action to preserve the ecosystem and protect land use, and we know that the Crown has been challenged to look at the impact of climate change policy on the claim currently before the Waitangi Tribunal\u2014Wai 262. The particular concern put forward was that any policy that promotes land use change must fully understand the impact on indigenous flora and fauna, including unintended consequences. We also know that the Waitangi Tribunal has been looking into the issue of carbon credit allocation when Crown-owned forests are growing on M\u0101ori land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe will be looking to see whether the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill provides for M\u0101ori-owned forests and carbon credits and whether it provides responsibly for Crown forests on M\u0101ori land. We will want to see, during the Committee stage, evidence that demonstrates how tangata whenua have been involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EClimate change affects us all. It is time to look critically at the way in which we measure the national accounts and look for a more realistic and telling tale of the progress achieved in our nation. Our total wellbeing, our health, and our sustenance are dependent on the prosperity of the whole national environment\u2014the big picture. Climate change is part of that big picture and carbon credits reward and recognise steps to protect our environment. To this end we support the further development of this bill with a view to genuine progress in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b54677a0cd124baaae0665bafa6f886f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b54677a0cd124baaae0665bafa6f886f\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with considerable pleasure to take a call on behalf of United Future on the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill. Like Jeanette Fitzsimons, I regret that it has taken so long for the bill to come to the House for its second reading. I had imagined that after the 2005 election this bill would have been well up the Order Paper, but I guess it is better late than never, and I am pleased to see that at last it has got to this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI come to this debate after viewing An Inconvenient Truth late in the afternoon on the Sunday of Labour Weekend. By the way, Labour Weekend in Wellington was the wettest Labour Weekend we have had in a decade. We have had the wettest winter on record, followed by the wettest spring on record. We have had landslips in the greater Wellington region in areas that have been without landslips for years. Anybody who doubts the reality of climate change would only have to have spent the last few months in Wellington to see that something quite dramatic has happened to our weather patterns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ELet me say at the beginning of this speech that United Future fully accepts the reality of climate change. The evidence is there all around us and, therefore, we are committed as a party to ensuring that New Zealand pulls its weight in addressing the issues that affect all of the people on this planet at this point in time. If I were to signal one thing that New Zealand is perhaps uniquely placed to do in its response to climate change, it would be to plant trees. We are actually quite a large country geographically. We are bigger than the United Kingdom and Ireland put together, and we have millions of hectares of wasteland that at the moment are basically barren. Therefore, United Future has had a policy for some time that we should incentivise the planting of trees as the singular greatest contribution New Zealand can make to address climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI am absolutely staggered and disappointed to find that New Zealand First will vote against the bill tonight. I well remember the leader of New Zealand First, Winston Peters, saying that the nation needs to plant 1 billion trees. When he said that I said \u201CRight on!\u201D, yet tonight New Zealand First has come to the House and said that it will vote against this bill, which completely baffles me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EIt is clear that trees have become a method whereby carbon can be sequestered. Carbon sequestration has the ability to make a huge difference to world climate, and growing trees is one of the very best ways of doing that. I should also point out that it is important to have a sustainable harvesting regime in place for those trees, and this bill allows a sustainable harvesting regime to kick in after 35 years. The reason for that is that once a tree matures and in fact starts to rot, as old trees do, then that tree is no longer absorbing carbon. So the wise thing to do is to cut that tree down at the point where it has optimised the absorption of carbon, and to plant a new tree to start that process over again. Conceptually, we can see that continuing on until the end of time. It is a good thing to do. Therefore, United Future thoroughly supports the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative that is at the heart of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI should say, in relation to overly mature trees, that one of the things that should probably be revisited in this country is the decision not to allow any sustainable harvesting of the West Coast beech forests. I know that that is a sensitive issue, but the fact is that if we wanted to get really serious about carbon change we would turn back the clock and let many of those rotten old trees get cut down. Many of those trees are completely rotten right down the middle, and they are sequestering no carbon, at all. If we could cut them down on a sustainable basis and put in a new tree, we would be making a significant difference. I know that that is a controversial suggestion, but if we are to get serious about it and follow the science, that is exactly the policy outcome that would come about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe way in which this bill will work will be by the devolution of tradable carbon emission units from the Crown down to land owners. It will include situations where the Crown itself is a land owner, and where it makes sense for the Crown to make its Crown-owned wastelands available to people who want to plant millions of trees on those lands. That would be a wonderful thing to see, and in United Future we call it a \u201Cno regrets policy\u201D. We would have many more trees. It would increase biodiversity, address climate change, and absorb nitrate from the soil. Really, there is just no downside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E Planting trees would also make our country much more beautiful. Funnily enough, although New Zealand prides itself on being a forested country, our rural countryside is actually denuded of trees compared with England, for example. It is very noticeable that there are many more trees in the countryside there than there are here, so planting trees is something that needs to happen, and it is a very good thing to do. United Future also has a policy specifically of planting trees around all our rivers and lakes on their marginal strips, where again that can contribute to climate change, to biodiversity, to absorbing nitrate, and to improving the quality of the water in our rivers and lakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThere is huge scope in New Zealand for planting trees on erosion-prone land. Recently I flew from here to Auckland on a beautiful clear day, and from Taranaki and all the way through to the King Country I saw a vast area of very hilly land with basically no farming and no trees on it. There is huge scope for us to go ahead and plant those lands. Based on the people who have come to see me and talk about the exciting opportunities this bill presents to them from a commercial point of view, it is possible that when this bill goes through, we will actually see money coming into this country\u2014and God knows we desperately need that, given our balance of payments situation\u2014from overseas people who would be prepared to get involved in planting trees in this country, simply in order to access the devolution of those carbon emission units. That would be a cash-flow driver for them. They do not want the land, they do not want the trees; they just want to come here and make it happen. So I am very excited with this bill\u2019s potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons mentioned the deforestation that is occurring at the moment. I think that that is a tragedy. I have done a graph going all the way back to the 1930s, and every time there has been a Labour Government, of any stripe, the numbers in tree-plantings have gone down. I ask myself when the Labour Party will get its head around the importance of forestry to this country. To sit here doing nothing\u2014as has been happening since the year 1999\u2014and to see our forest estate going backwards, I think is a tragedy. It is really counter to all that the Government gives lip service to, in terms of climate change. Not only that, tree planting, even plantation forests, opens up commercial possibilities for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to climate change, United Future\u2019s policy is unashamedly \u201CLet\u2019s pick the low fruit first.\u201D We should do the things we can that are practical\u2014and where there are no regrets, no downside, but only upside from every point of view\u2014and do those first, rather than try to get to the fruit right at the top of the tree, and somehow to be some sort of world leader. That is not our role. The big European nations, which Jeanette Fitzsimons and others have mentioned, can do that. By the way, those nations have made some terrible mistakes, which we can learn from, and we do not want to go down their route.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI was amazed that Jeanette Fitzsimons said there was nothing much in the bill about the conditions around permanent forest sinks. I tell the House that there is a whole page of them, under new clause 67Z, inserted by clause 30 in Part 2. All of the obligations that landowners will have to enter into, if they want to go into permanent forest sinks, are set out there. They state, for example, that the landowner is required to be the guarantor or insurer of those forests, or to provide any other risk management arrangement the Minister considers appropriate. The landowner is required to control the harvest of timber, and to have a forest sink management plan. The covenant is to be expressed to have effect in perpetuity, and so on. A whole page of conditions is laid out there, so as far as we are concerned the template is in this bill. There is just time now for us collectively, as a nation and as a Parliament, to get on with the job and make a difference to climate change. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0b686b0ae3945eaa12200c0dded7a94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0b686b0ae3945eaa12200c0dded7a94\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E I have been so keen for my turn to speak on the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill I have been popping up and down in a most unseemly fashion. I am disappointed that the Minister for Climate Change is not here tonight for the second reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221719072ec8b94ebebc727dcf25b30904\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member needs to withdraw and apologise for that; that is not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201c8b3f58a1c4fa2925662a2d1baeb0e\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I am disappointed that the Minister for Climate Change has not made a contribution to the second reading of this legislation. After all, he would have us believe that, unlike National, the Labour Government not only recognises climate change but also is prepared to get in there and do something about it. Despite all the Minister\u2019s endless talk, all the endless conferences and press releases, all the overseas travel to talk about it, where\u2014after 7 years in Government\u2014is the Government\u2019s policy on climate change? I fear that this legislation\u2014the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill\u2014is it, and the Minister responsible for it is not even making a contribution to it through its second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis bill was reported back to the House by the Commerce Committee\u2014when was it, in July 2005? It was certainly before my time in Parliament. That makes it a bill that is so important to this Government, this bill on climate change, that it has sat around at the bottom of the Order Paper for\u2014let me count the months\u201415 months. That is how important this bill on climate change is to this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo what has the Labour Government achieved in the past 7 years on climate change policy\u2014a policy it is so concerned about? Well, we signed up to the Kyoto Protocol, which was meant to save the world. Actually, it was meant to save 0.02 percent of the emissions that we contribute to the world. At the same time, signing up to the Kyoto Protocol was going to make us an absolute bundle. It was going to be fantastic. It was going to make us around $500 million. The problem is that the Government made a slight miscalculation and it turns out that instead of New Zealand making an absolute bundle, we owe an absolute bundle because of signing up to the Kyoto Protocol. And how much is that bundle that we owe? It is around $500 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhat else have we had? We have had the carbon tax, which, they figured out eventually, was not going to work. So that was another Government policy on climate change that was a resounding failure. We had the \u201Cfart tax\u201D\u2014the famous \u201Cfart tax\u201D, which, they figured out, was not going to work. That, for the Government, was another resounding failure. We have had an energy efficiency strategy. We have had an energy efficiency strategy\u2014I love saying those words. I have to look every time I read them out because\u2014[Interruption] That is the problem\u2014it took $100 million of taxpayer money to tell the Government that it was not going to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo let me recap the Government\u2019s climate change policy initiatives so far: we have the \u201Cfart tax\u201D, we have the carbon tax, and we have the energy efficiency strategy. Have any of them worked? No, none of them have worked. We have had the Kyoto Protocol, which not only has not worked but also we signed up for it until 2013, I think, and it is costing us half a billion dollars. [Interruption] It is not very successful; one could only call it a tiny little bit successful\u2014one would almost call it unsuccessful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has described the Government as operating in a climate change vacuum. As soon as I sit down next to someone on a plane who is in the energy industry or the climate change industry\u2014anybody involved in the environment\u2014and he or she knows I am a minor back-bencher from the National Party, the first thing anybody says is: \u201CHi, Jacqui, would you please do something about the climate change and the energy policy?\u201D. That is all I ever hear from anybody in the electricity industry. We are operating in a policy vacuum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhat is the response from the Government? Well, earlier this evening MP Steve Chadwick said in this debate when she was challenged by Dr Nick Smith about a lack of climate change policy: \u201CJust wait, it is coming.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d4ea4931f624be796bf0705624f3808\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: So is Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224052e1fdeb9e4427a35a39add035c257\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thankfully, so is Christmas, and the next general election. So that, I suspect, will take care of itself in due course. In the meantime, the National caucus have produced a policy, and it is called A Bluegreen Vision for New Zealand. It has been so well received, it is embarrassing. Often when I sit in this Chamber I hear the cry, \u201CWhere\u2019s your policy?\u201D, coming from the Government benches when we are in the middle of a debate. Members opposite are very fond of shouting out: \u201CWhere\u2019s your policy?\u201D. It is a funny thing, because in this instance, that cry applies to the Government. It is the National Party that has produced a A Bluegreen Vision for New Zealand. What has the Government produced? Oh yes, that is right; let me find it\u2014it is somewhere here on my bench. The Government has produced a minor bill, after it has sat for 15 months at the bottom of the Order Paper, called the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill\u2014big deal! What strikes me when I look at this Climate Change Response Amendment Bill\u2014big deal\u2014is that the select committee membership has changed in the time between the previous Parliament and this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2da5cba5b2b4b2bb38bc551c5d341d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Half of them are gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8a99ecb87bd4f18a5eb401a4dff7e12\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it look to me as if we have only half of those members still in Parliament, so we would have to question how very relevant this bill before the House is. I was looking around today and I found an interesting, yet worrying, report from the World Wildlife Fund for Nature. It shows that humans are stripping nature at an unprecedented rate\u2014well, there is nothing new in that\u2014and it claims that by 2050 the human race will need two planets\u2019 worth of natural resources to feed current consumption rates. That is very disturbing, but do people know what is even more disturbing? It is that the World Wildlife Fund for Nature ranks New Zealand ninth on a list of 10 countries using up the natural resources of planet Earth. We are the ninth-worst out of 10. What is the Government\u2019s response to this? It is a climate change policy that states: \u201CJust wait, it is coming.\u201D, and that is all we have seen from the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENational knows where we should go with our climate change policy, because we have put out a discussion document, A Bluegreen Vision for New Zealand, which, as I have said, has been so well received, it is embarrassing. We have proposals for tradable emission permits in order to manage New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions. Starting with the energy sector, we will be capping electricity emissions by requiring all additional emissions from fossil fuel power stations to be offset by forestry planting. That is sensible, and it gives a sense of direction for the energy and forestry industries. We propose a major boost into research for agricultural emissions. We will not clobber farmers with a \u201Cfart tax\u201D. We will invest in making agriculture more efficient\u2014that is sensible\u2014and, very important, we will reform the Resource Management Act in order to facilitate the development of renewable energy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b3d6c296cf43e2a382e059c6fa4552\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve already done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711ff53ef7bf45dd9dcf7064c2433cba\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, this Government has not, I say to the member. This Government, after 7 years\u2019 stewardship of our environment, can say that our emissions are growing at three times the rate of Australia\u2019s and four times the rate of the United States\u2014and those are our trading partners that are not hobbled by the Kyoto Protocol. This is a Government on whose watch we have seen a threefold increase in power produced from coal, and it is a Government that has sat firmly on the picket fence over Project Aqua and will not, or cannot, recognise the impediment that the Resource Management Act provides to future energy project investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill, and we view sensible climate change policy more seriously than clearly the Minister responsible for Climate Change does, as he has not made a contribution to tonight\u2019s debate. We will support this bill, because we support tradable emissions permits, and we look forward to moving amendments during the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u002273235bb4e38a4951a7f6fc93d2211ead\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273235bb4e38a4951a7f6fc93d2211ead\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Until the previous speaker spoke, I felt that this was a day when I felt comfortable in the House. It was one of those rare occasions when I felt that we were really working together on an issue bigger than any of our individual tribes. But that last speech did not really encourage me in that prospect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EHowever, I will make one particular comment first, and it is about Project Aqua. The resolution that occurred in terms of Project Aqua was actually about stopping the subdivision of environmental issues into separate baskets. There is no separate basket called the Kyoto Protocol, there is no separate basket called clean air, there is no separate basket called energy production, there is no separate basket called irrigation, and there is no separate basket called the conservation of rivers. When we did the work on the Waitaki scheme we used, for once in our lives, not an adversarial method but an inquisitorial method that gave people with an interest in every part of the river a voice. It was not a question of saying that some forms of energy are there and some are not. We will solve environmental problems only when we stop separating aspects of them into little baskets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI happened to agree very strongly with Jeanette Fitzsimons, co-leader of the Green Party, tonight when she said that every human being on this planet must act responsibly about greenhouse gas emissions. The issue is not about playing off one party against another, or about playing farmers off against viticulturists or against trout fishers, but is about saying that every one of us has a responsibility to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in our lives\u2014and we do not play nations off against each other. Fundamentally, in the end, that is the basis of the Kyoto Protocol. We must play our part and, unlike the previous speaker, I know that this Government, in the last 7 years, has been playing its part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI can recall calling together the very first meeting of a number of members of Government departments on the issues around the Kyoto Protocol when I was a very raw Minister. I discovered at that stage that the officials from the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry did not know how many animals there were in New Zealand. The ministry had given up on having any way of accounting for them, which meant there was no way of knowing what their methane emissions were. That was the inheritance we faced. Not only was that the case, but we faced a Ministry of Transport that had no policy on vehicle emissions. That was what we faced. So we faced departments that not only failed to work together as one\u2014it is not only parties that do not work together as one\u2014but actually worked against each other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThat situation has changed radically. I think about the scheme for clean air environment standards, which has an absolute commitment towards reducing vehicle emissions, and about the work it is doing in Auckland and the incentive that it causes to bring about energy efficiency in homes, so that we have clean air and, therefore, lower emissions. If we turn to the research work on methane, I do find it very hard to listen when a member of the Opposition stands up and goes on about the \u201Cfart tax\u201D, when what we were really asking for was a contribution from the farming industry towards finding out what was there, in terms of methane emissions from animals. I think those members speak from a sense of shame rather than a sense of pride. Instead of going to the farmers, we decided we would fund the research in another way, because we need to find out why and how methane is emitted. I think that it is irresponsible to play those games. It is opportunist and populist, and we should be well past populism if we are really working together on the issue of climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI believe that this Government has worked particularly hard on a very difficult issue, but we cannot argue at the international level around the Kyoto Protocol issues unless we do something more than we are now doing. We must take action ourselves. We cannot go out there and point the finger at India or China, unless we start to reduce our emissions. If we look at what is happening in the United Kingdom at the moment, which has apparently tripled its carbon dioxide emissions since Tony Blair has been in Government\u2014well, that is what has been quoted\u2014we see the United Kingdom is making even tougher rules, far tougher than those we face in New Zealand, to deal with those particular issues. We need to walk the talk about reducing greenhouse gas emissions before we can start to point the finger at anyone else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EBut we also need to share the technology. The fact is that in the case of the islands that we are talking about, on those atolls in the Pacific where the water is rising and lapping up nearly 5 metres higher than previously, people burn diesel in order to generate energy. Lord almighty, what are we doing if we are not sharing our technology! We have a long way to go on that issue in this particular society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI am really happy that National supports this bill\u2014and I am happy about that, I say to the Hon Dr Nick Smith\u2014because I think we are getting the message in this House that our community is concerned about the issue of climate change. So working together is positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI welcome the fact that Tariana Turia talked about the importance of forest planters gaining benefit from carbon sequestration. When I think about another issue around Lake Taup\u014D, I realise that forestry and forestry planting, and T\u016Bwharetoa hap\u016B being able to claim benefit from that\u2014rather than having to put in dairy farms in order for one hap\u016B to catch up with another\u2014is one way to make sure that we can gain some benefit from that. So there are two values: cleaner water and more variety of land use, as well as carbon sinks. The cleverer we are about uniting the different impacts, in terms of addressing environmental issues, the better we will go. I also appreciate that the permanent nature of the canopy allows for indigenous forests, as well as the monoculture of Pinus radiata, to be planted. That has a real benefit, particularly for some of our furniture industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EWe must reduce emissions, though, as well as mitigating their effects. So although we encourage permanent forest sinks, we have to do work on the other side of the equation, by reducing emissions. This bill is only one part of a whole programme that is being promoted by this Government. We should remind ourselves that there is an adaptation programme, because this issue is about adaptation to climate change\u2014and those of us who were in Wellington this weekend will understand about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThe programme is about our coastal areas and our farming sector, but it is also about measures to improve the energy efficiency of our buildings. There is a consultation on minimum biofuels sales obligations, and we have to actually be serious about using alternative energies to drive our cars. We can talk about heating our homes and we can talk about industry, but we also have to look at the carbon dioxide that comes out of our cars and our vehicles as we move around. We can talk about increased public passenger transport and about better trains, but we have to move what is transported by road also, and that cannot always be put on trains\u2014[Interruption] I am finding it extremely hard to think, with that person roaring at me from the other side of the House. There are also options to create links with the Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate. Those are the issues that we need to face when we are talking about our Pacific partners. There are options to improve the fuel efficiency of our vehicle fleet, in terms of what we import and what we manufacture in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThere are ways in which Government agencies can lead the way in respect of sustainable practices. Today, in a select committee, I watched a member of the Opposition be very critical of one Government department that was taking Govt3 practice seriously. That concerns the whole notion of sustainable development. The member was querying whether there were too many bureaucrats trying to work things out, when that department was buying smaller cars in its fleet, doing work to reduce paper usage in its ministry, and trying to be sustainable. So, again, I make a plea: if we are serious about climate change, and if we are serious about sustainable practice in this country, we must not look at the issue in terms of one-off boxes but look at it holistically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI welcome the fact that most members of this House have supported the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022463e96f79b154a9791e86059705328a2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments recommended by the Commerce Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002298f2e3b92ed844a4977cb53f915ce0bb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill be read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 7; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ac8c0c5ef5a4a7099f3f3540c716ae5\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e1c0edbcb2b4623ba46d0175fa41f31\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022d33017574ce9464ab3ae732d471ad077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d33017574ce9464ab3ae732d471ad077\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Assistant Speaker, I believe that you are about to call Government Order of the Day No. 6, which is the Committee stage of the Sports Anti-Doping Bill. In noting that the Committee has done an extremely good job with this bill and that there is widespread support for it throughout the House, I seek leave for the Committee stage to be taken as a whole, and for one question to be put at the conclusion of the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00222487725cbc344fc397e50f73d9be1b6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222487725cbc344fc397e50f73d9be1b6c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Sport and Recreation):\u003C/span\u003E Because I was not here, I point out that amendments to that bill have been set out on Supplementary Order Paper 64 in my name, so some questions will be put around those amendments, as well. [Interruption] There is no problem with that; the questions will be taken together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc627d1f9e644fbe9bf7bdbeab28b858\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. All the parts will be taken together? Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e856e3e24e744fea99391c3dc2e94c6\u0022\u003ESports Anti-Doping Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc0ae7f864ef49eb8e12a4e4387a6b01\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000668\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 19 October.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e7ebb1f0c8d44f999bd8d9b372f7665\u0022\u003EParts 3 and 4, schedules, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u002229440ff09edf4fd1a5a1fe51a778b997\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229440ff09edf4fd1a5a1fe51a778b997\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E It is a rare occasion when one can stand in this Parliament and find total support for legislation from all parties in the Chamber. So to some extent this is something that is quite good to be involved in. Doping is fundamentally contrary to the spirit of sport, and it puts at risk the ethical principles and educational values combined in the International Charter of Physical Education and Sport of Unesco. For that reason the National Party is very much in support of this legislation. The anti-doping programmes, therefore, seek to preserve what is intrinsically valuable about sport, which is characterised by values such as honesty, ethics, fairness, health, respect, courage, commitment, and solidarity. It is not often that one can find all those words strung together in one bill. It is just a pity that one or two of the political parties in this Parliament could not exercise what is being attempted in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe code that seeks to harmonise international efforts to address doping in sport was finalised at the World Conference on Doping in Sport, which was held in Copenhagen from 3 to 5 March 2003. Clearly that was a good position to take. I understand the Minister in the chair, the Hon Trevor Mallard, might have been somewhere near there at the time, so he is to be congratulated on taking us to that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EIt is heartening to see that this Government, which is not well known for this characteristic, has decided not to introduce charges when it comes to Customs Service checks at the border, and other checks where charges take place. When we think about other border control measures put in place by this Government, it has introduced charges on a scale that we have never seen before. I am pleased the Government chose not to do that in this case. The sharing of information or evidence by the New Zealand Police, the Customs Service, and others is eminently sensible. So those who drafted the legislation, and of course the very good Government Administration Committee that looked at it, condoned all those measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e759cc19dc6a4987a0797410e7197a17\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Who chairs that committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4856c9e0f7c4a4cb8e90269b6b67025\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That committee is very ably chaired, and I welcome interjections from my \u201CNigerian\u201D brother across the Chamber, and suggest that some of the measures brought before the committee had all the aroma, flavour, and taste of\u2014what was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25f99a6f3f84058bdbbc7e398fda1dc\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Nigerian cowhead stew.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c571858bcd441a1bbfa45bf47d4c0cd\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Nigerian cowhead stew. Of course, it would have had the same effect on one\u2019s running ability, if one had ingested it. I suggest that the Minister in the chair go back and look at some of the things that the select committee had to deal with. We really did tidy that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EPart 3 deals with the Sports Tribunal of New Zealand. Membership consists of at least five but no more than nine members. Each member is appointed by the Governor-General on the recommendation of the Minister for Sport and Recreation, on the basis of his or her qualifications and ability to represent the sporting sector. That is very sensible as well, and, once again, it is almost out of character for this Government to get so many things right. I am wondering what has happened to the Minister! Perhaps his hopes and aspirations for higher office were at the forefront of his mind, therefore he did not give this bill his usual attention and thereby it did not get mucked about. I congratulate the Minister on achieving that goal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EAround the world, New Zealanders are known as a group of individuals who box above their weight, and no more so than in sport. Our New Zealand All Blacks are the best in the world. They are world-famous. Our basketball players, our netball players, our golfers\u2014you name it; we are the best. It is a great thing, because it brings everybody together and is good for the health of the nation. I say to the Minister that anything that minimises the use of drugs in this regard has to be positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u002236bcc7cad3bf4b1bb77579af1bf34fa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236bcc7cad3bf4b1bb77579af1bf34fa6\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaikoura):\u003C/span\u003E It is indeed an honour to speak to the Sports Anti-Doping Bill. I would like to concentrate just a bit on Part 3. My learned colleague talked about the tribunal, and it surprises me to some degree that it has taken this length of time to put these very important structures in place so that we can move forward. Having come from an organisation\u2014Shearing Sports NZ\u2014that received funding from Sport and Recreation New Zealand, we had to have a drug policy and implement it. Anybody who ever went for a shearing record had a blood sample taken for testing. So it is quite interesting to see that we are putting in place the Sports Anti-Doping Bill now and to see how it is structured. It is quite significant that this be given quite a bit of credibility, if confidence is to be built based around this function. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWe have Drug Free Sport New Zealand, the Sports Tribunal of New Zealand, and rules that must be upheld. It is interesting that membership of the tribunal consists of a minimum of five and a maximum of nine members. When we look at the requirements for appointment as a member, we see that those people must be very appropriately qualified, so we could say they do not just fall off the back of a truck. The seriousness of this statutory tribunal is recognised by the fact that those people are appointed by the Governor-General on the recommendation of the Minister, who consults with the board of Sport and Recreation New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe Governor-General appoints the chairperson, and that person must not only have a good knowledge of sport but also legal knowledge. That is very important. If the tribunal does not have the overall trust and confidence of the entire institutions of sport when it is dealing with matters brought before it, then it will collapse and will not uphold the good intentions of the sports anti-doping legislation. So Part 3 is very important. The Governor-General also appoints the deputy chairperson. The chairperson, deputy chairperson, and at least one other member must be a barrister or solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand with no less than 7 years\u2019 practice, and must have substantial experience in legal issues affecting sport or have had a substantial involvement in sport. They need a minimum of a 10-year aggregate period of experience in a sporting body or a high level of sporting experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe tribunal in itself has to be quite robust and, because it is a statutory body, its functions go to considerable lengths to ensure that its powers are carried out. It has the power to summon witnesses. It also has the power to ensure that those people who refuse to turn up, do so at the risk of a fine\u2014the fines are spelt out in Part 3\u2014so there can be no doubt in the minds of those concerned about what they are undertaking. However, the tribunal\u2019s importance is also recognised by the fact that costs can be imposed where those people do not turn up or do not subscribe to the appropriate course of conduct. An order for those costs can be filed in the District Court and may be enforced as a judgment of that court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThis bill is a foundation cornerstone to having robust sporting anti-doping legislation and, as such, finds its place appropriately\u2014although considerably later than it should have been\u2014on the statute book. Interestingly, only two submissions were received. I would not say that in itself would indicate a lack of interest. I would probably say those two submissions were quite appropriate, but it also indicates there was a universal acceptance of the importance of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ESo as we go forward supporting this Sports Anti-Doping Bill, we recognise that New Zealand does have a good record to uphold in the world of sport. We want to be able to hold up our sporting heroes as examples, and sport is probably the very best activity we can encourage our young ones to participate in. When one drives back from the airport in Blenheim one goes past the sign, \u201CA child in sport stays out of court\u201D, and as long as our young ones do not dabble in drugs, that would tend to be the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EIf people who are involved in sport aim to be at the top end and are tempted to cheat, we say that cheating is not allowed. If those people take stimulants of a prescribed nature that exaggerate their performance, whether in training or in competition, that is cheating\u2014and they will be punished by the tribunal. The tribunal has a set of rules, which it will uphold with integrity and honour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022 data-id=\u00225282503e5af34cba9fe1f39d63d894e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225282503e5af34cba9fe1f39d63d894e7\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL (National\u2014Rakaia):\u003C/span\u003E By popular demand I am back, and I thank you, Mr Chairperson, for the call on the Sports Anti-Doping Bill, though my colleagues on the other side of the Chamber might regret having supported my call when I get to the substance of what I want to talk about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003ELet me start by saying that anything that sends a message that drug abuse in sport will not be tolerated has my support. Anything that sends a message that says that cheating will not be tolerated, no matter under what guise, has my support. But if ever there was legislation that did not need to come to this Chamber, this is it. Let me articulate why I believe that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThis bill will provide the legislative framework to facilitate New Zealand\u2019s compliance with the World Anti-doping Code. That is a voluntary code, but what would have happened had we not signed on to this? Let me tell the Committee that the perfect market effect would have taken place. Sportspeople cannot participate in elite sporting events anywhere in the world unless they abide by the code. To waste Parliament\u2019s time legislating this is simply unnecessary. The real reason for doing it is that the Minister for Sport and Recreation wants to be able to tell the world that New Zealand was one of the first to sign on to the Unesco convention. A self-governing model was in place, yet here we are, at 9 o\u2019clock on 25 October 2006, talking about this type of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to refer to is information sharing, which is something that throughout the course of the bill in the Government Administration Committee I felt rather strongly about. There is a conflicting message in what we are suggesting in the stamping out of drugs and in what we have decided to do as a committee. I respect the select committee process, and I respect the fact that my arguments there were put and lost, but there is still an opportunity to raise them in the course of this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u201CEvidence of a prohibitive drug in an athlete\u2019s blood may be sufficient to affect the athlete\u2019s rights under a sporting code, but it is unlikely to be sufficient evidence for Police purposes.\u201D That is what we have written in the commentary on the bill. I want to raise this objection, and I want to raise it now. If we do not say to elite athletes that we will not tolerate their using class A drugs, then however will we get the message out to the wider community that taking drugs in any guise is simply not acceptable? We have an agency that has now proudly changed its name to Drug Free Sport New Zealand, yet at the same time the committee would not write into the legislation that it has no tolerance whatsoever of class A drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EA high-profile example is the case of Wendell Sailor, the Wallabies right-winger, who was caught with a class A drug by his blood tests. The argument rages that that may not be enough reason for a conviction, but for goodness\u2019 sake, does it not put the police on notice that there is a member of society, a member of the wider community, who is getting access to an illicit drug, regardless of whether it is sports-enhancing? He was engaged\u2014and he has now admitted it\u2014in illegal activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EWe have lost the opportunity as a Parliament to send out a very clear message that we object not only to drug cheating in sport but also to drug use, full stop, and that the full force of the law will be brought down upon those who engage in these types of activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EI realise that we do not want to prolong this debate, but I want to take the opportunity to thank the select committee members for the way they have worked on this legislation. I also thank the advisers who came to the select committee and offered their assistance. Before I conclude, I will reiterate the message about drugs. In order to set a precedent that says drug taking of any sort will not be tolerated, we need to write it into our legislation when the opportunity presents itself and we need to be firm and walk the talk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u00225b449ef847d94c88a38a0f398cb25096\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b449ef847d94c88a38a0f398cb25096\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022692adaed787f4ec993fef7532eed6a2f\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The athletic prowess himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220828fb6ef2714befb1955b261059d7ca\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: The member for Otaki might laugh but I have been out every morning for weeks, doing my 30 minutes Push Play. I say to that youthful member of this House, who probably cannot remember back to the 1960s, that at that time, when I was young\u2014[Interruption]\u2014yes, I say to Ms Dalziel; about the same time as she was young\u2014our parents had to demand that we come in from being outside. Today, under this politically correct, cringing administration, we have trouble getting our kids to go outside. They are glued to the Internet, they are glued to television\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2896b3bd9fa4cf5b9e7752c729d6fcf\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all Darren\u2019s fault.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dbe5880658248658df6c21dd5743431\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: It is\u2014the bikie boy from Otaki. Because we are dealing with a leftist administration, I suggest that we could find useful, because we are supporting this bill together, the words of Nelson Mandela, who extolled the virtues of sport in the following way: \u201CSport is very important for building character\u201D\u2014the member might pass that on to the Prime Minister\u2014\u201Cbecause when you\u2019re involved in sport your individual character comes out, your determination, your ability to be part of the team, and the acceptance of the collective effort is extremely important in developing your country as well as patriotism.\u201D It is in this context that I want to reflect for half a minute on the issue of role models, because they are extremely important to the development of our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EOver the last 20 years I have seen the development of commercial sport, with people earning very, very significant amounts of money. When they have finished with their sport, having earned quite a lot of money, they seem to move on to the entertainment industry, where they earn more significant amounts of money. But there is a common denominator\u2014drugs. I think the people who have found themselves tangled up in this way are very poor role models, and that is why I welcome, and my party welcomes, this bill and supports the Labour Government in promoting it. I think that is a very important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAs I said at an earlier stage of this bill, sport is a thriving and vital part of our economy. We see it here in Wellington in the impact of sporting events at the Cake Tin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae4e17c48be464eb754164c96e38ad7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The what? I thought the member came from the Wellington region. It\u2019s not called that in the Wairarapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ae6ae15de049ba914a3dd0f3c7401a\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: The Cake Tin, yes. The member\u2019s Wainui\u014Dmata ratepayers contributed, as did mine in the Wairarapa. I think sport also helps project the nation on the international stage, and I particularly welcome the activities of our yachtsmen who are competing in, and preparing for, the America\u2019s Cup campaign. I think sport plays a significant role, potentially, in our international relations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe habits developed in childhood remain with us for life. Coming back to what I said at the beginning, I think there are many reasons for the diminishing rate of participation in sport among children. A glimpse inside the average suburban home in the Wairarapa provides the clues: television, computer games, and the Internet. Our communities now\u2014and I am talking particularly of the Wairarapa\u2014have far more two-income families and single-parent families for whom getting children to and from sport is very difficult. I think we need as a community to address these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ELet me refer now to the bill, and in particular to Subpart 3, \u201CRules\u201D, in Part 2. Clause 16(4) states: \u201CBefore making a rule under this section, the board must give national sporting organisations, athletes, and the Privacy Commissioner\u201D\u2014God help us\u2014\u201Ca reasonable opportunity to comment on the proposed rule.\u201D Having the Privacy Commissioner involved is an example of political correctness. Then I refer to clause 17, and in particular to subclause (1), which states: \u201CThe following written material may be incorporated by reference in the rules: (a) standards, requirements, or recommended practices of the World Anti-Doping Agency:\u201D. That is fair enough. Then that is repeated: \u201C(b) the World Anti-Doping Agency\u2019s International Standards:\u201D. It strikes me that that is superfluous and unnecessary. Paragraph (c) states: \u201Cthe World Anti-Doping Agency\u2019s Models of Best Practice.\u201D This is very poorly drafted legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ELet me go on. Clause 18, \u201CEffect of amendments to, or replacement of, material incorporated by reference in rules\u201D, states\u2014work this lot out\u2014\u201CAn amendment to, or replacement of, material incorporated by reference in the rules (the principal rules) has effect as part of the principal rules only if rules made after the making of the principal rules state that the particular amendment or replacement has that effect.\u201D What is the Minister for Sport and Recreation up to here? This is gobbledegook\u2014absolute nonsense, with no meaning at all. And he is asking us to support it? For goodness\u2019 sake, he should get his drafting sorted out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ELet us move on to clause 20, \u201CEffect of expiry of material incorporated by reference\u201D, which states: \u201CMaterial incorporated by reference in the rules that expires or is revoked or ceases to have effect, ceases to have legal effect as part of the rules only if rules made under section 16 state that the material ceases to have legal effect.\u201D I say to the people of this country that they are paying millions of dollars for bureaucrats to write this gibberish, this absolute and utter nonsense. It hurts me to have to get up here and support this bill, because I disapprove of this absolute nonsense that the Minister is promoting to us and to the people of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ENext, I refer the Minister to clause 33, \u201CTerm of office of members of Tribunal\u201D, which states: \u201CExcept as provided in section 34, a member of the Tribunal holds office for a term not exceeding 5 years.\u201D Well, what is wrong with 3 years? We should keep it near to a parliamentary term, because in that way we can keep a balance in appointment processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ENext is the real hole in the Minister\u2019s legislation, clause 43, \u201CPrivileges and immunities\u201D, which states: \u201C(1) Witnesses appearing before the Tribunal have the same privileges and immunities as witnesses have in proceedings in a District Court. (2) Every counsel, agent, or other person appearing before the Tribunal has the same privileges and immunities as counsel have in proceedings in a District Court.\u201D If I were from another country, such as China, which exports dope and drugs, and, in particular, sport-enhancing drugs, I think I would put all my athletes on diplomatic passports, because straight away the whole lot of them would be exempt from the Minister\u2019s rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u0022e798a5cbb9654de0bc8930f2d368fb1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e798a5cbb9654de0bc8930f2d368fb1b\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E My colleague has raised some very interesting issues. Perhaps the Minister might like to take a call and elucidate what he thinks will happen in terms of District Court rules applying to overseas athletes here in New Zealand and how that will be addressed. I commend, yet again, my colleagues Shane Ardern and Brian Connell for their sterling efforts at the Government Administration Committee to ensure we have something that we can at least manage to some degree. [Interruption] What is the bleating over there from that member? He cannot even get himself to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIn relation to this bill, the issue of the sharing of information about positive drug tests has been raised a number of times in the House. I would like to share with members a report that came to the select committee with additional detail on the implications of amending the Sports Anti-Doping Bill to require Drug Free Sport New Zealand or the Sports Tribunal to share information with the police about the results of blood or urine tests if the test results indicate that an athlete has used a substance that is classified under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe select committee asked Sport and Recreation New Zealand officials to consider whether the bill should require Drug Free Sport New Zealand to share drug-testing results with the police. These officials advised the select committee that Drug Free Sport New Zealand should not be required to share information about alleged criminal offences with the police, the Customs Service, or any other agencies. Under the bill, Drug Free Sport New Zealand will not be prevented from sharing the information, and the decision on whether to share it will be made on a case by case assessment. Drug Free Sport New Zealand will have the ability to share the information if it feels it is a serious issue. I know that my colleague Brian Connell was particularly concerned about this point. He took a very strong position on this and I commend him for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe select committee asked Sport and Recreation New Zealand officials to provide further advice on this issue, and to canvass this matter with the Minister for Sport and Recreation and other interested agencies. They discussed the issue with the Minister for Sport and Recreation, and perhaps he might like to take a call and explain his view. They also discussed it with Drug Free Sport New Zealand, the New Zealand Police, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, and the Ministry of Justice. Based on these discussions, the view of the officials remained that it would be undesirable to require Drug Free Sport New Zealand to share with the police the results of blood and urine tests. It is good to reiterate this point to settle people\u2019s minds about the reasoning for not including mandatory sharing of information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe World Anti-Doping Agency has a code that sets out a decision-making formula, which can be found in some of the reports. When an athlete is subject to a doping test under the World Anti-Doping Code, the blood or urine sample is divided into an \u201CA\u201D sample and a \u201CB\u201D sample. At step two in the diagram, the \u201CA\u201D sample is where the sample has tested positive for a prohibited or specified substance under the code and, for the purpose of this example, has also tested positive for a substance that is classified under the Misuse of Drugs Act. That is what is in the \u201CA\u201D category. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe Sport and Recreation New Zealand officials considered it was premature for Drug Free Sport New Zealand to share information about the test result with another agency at step two in the process because Drug Free Sport New Zealand would not have had an opportunity to review the testing process to ensure there had been no testing error\u2014which can, of course, occasionally happen when there is a laboratory malfunction or there has been a confusion of the samples. Step two was also a point where Drug Free Sport New Zealand would not have had an opportunity to check whether the athlete had used the substance illegally, or legally as a prescription medicine, and where the athlete had not been given an opportunity to have the \u201CB\u201D sample tested. Also, Drug Free Sport New Zealand is obliged, under the World Anti-Doping Code, not to publicly release the name of the athlete until after there has been an administrative review. That, of course, is all part of the process; it is actually step three. Drug Free Sport New Zealand would undertake an administrative review to see whether the athlete has a therapeutic-use exemption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aea25121193849bd931ea2f954c62469\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aea25121193849bd931ea2f954c62469\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Otago):\u003C/span\u003E I support this Sports Anti-Doping Bill. It is a great thing that we have a bill that really encapsulates what all of us must feel about the association of drugs with sport. I guess we have all seen examples of bodybuilders and weightlifters ruining their kidneys and falling victim to taking muscle-enhancing drugs. I do not know much about the drugs themselves, but I do know the message that this bill is sending out to young people and young sportspeople in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI understand that the bill will provide a framework that will allow New Zealand to comply with the World Anti-Doping Code. So the spirit of the bill reaches out well beyond New Zealand shores and brings us into line with the thinking on drugs and sport throughout the world. It is good that the bill retains the former New Zealand Sports Drug Agency and renames it, more aptly and more appropriately, Drug Free Sport New Zealand. I support the very clear message that the renaming of this agency brings with it. This, of course, is the organisation responsible for the rules that reflect the code in New Zealand. It is good that the bill also retains the Sports Disputes Tribunal of New Zealand, renaming it the Sports Tribunal of New Zealand, which is fine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENational sporting agencies will be able to adopt the rules, as provided in the bill, through the anti-doping policies. The bill outlines the functions of Drug Free Sport New Zealand, which will include consultation with Government sporting organisations, local authorities, the New Zealand Olympic Committee Inc., national sporting organisations, and any other bodies on any matters concerned with doping in sport. So it brings me to the point of wondering why the Minister responsible for drug policy is undermining the very spirit and intention of this bill by not clamping down on the sale of benzylpiperazine-based products, which are drugs that are also freely available to our young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E How can it be that within our Government we have one Minister who is promoting a Sports Anti-Doping Bill that sends all the right messages to our young people but, within that very same Government, we have another Minister who is also concerned with drug policy and the message that that drug policy sends to New Zealanders\u2014a message that absolutely, without doubt, irrefutably, undermines the very spirit of this bill? It makes me wonder what it will take for the \u201CMinister of Drug Policy\u201D, the Hon Jim Anderton, to get off his hands, stop looking up at the ceiling, stop travelling overseas, stop sending funny messages out to farmers and finally do something about tightening the regulations around benzylpiperazine in New Zealand. It is an embarrassment for the Government. It is so embarrassing! I mean, on the one hand Government members are going out there with the Sports Anti-Doping Bill, saying that it is sending all the right messages to young people, but on the other hand they are saying that people can go down to their dairies and buy benzylpiperazine-based products. Where is the consistency in our message on drugs in New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI can tell members that as far as the National Party is concerned, our message is extremely consistent on drugs, which is why we support this bill. I believe we should be sending one, extremely clear message to our young people. Whether it is rugby, hockey, or drama they are involved in, I do not care; the message we should be sending to them from this Parliament should be very clear and very simple. It is that all recreational drugs, or mind-altering drugs, are bad. But what is this Government sending out? With the Sports Anti-Doping Bill it is sending out one message \u2014a very good message, I say to the Minister\u2014but, in our drug policy and in the Misuse of Drugs Act, it is sending out a completely different, waffly, \u201COh, I\u2019m not quite sure if it\u2019s bad and is it doing any harm?\u201D message. I think that that is entirely wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002222af0c4efc934bdda605b3a090aef8ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222af0c4efc934bdda605b3a090aef8ad\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to take a call on the Sports Anti-Doping Bill. It is interesting that the word \u201Cdoping\u201D was probably derived from the Dutch word \u201Cdope\u201D, which was an alcoholic drink made up of grape skins and used by Zulu warriors, apparently. It made them pretty macho in battle. So that is a little bit of history about where the word \u201Cdope\u201D came from, many, many centuries ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe important thing is that performance enhancement through foreign substances\u2014oh, the Minister is going to get out the dictionary now. We will look forward to something from the \u201CMallard Concise Dictionary\u201D shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe main thing is that for years and years there have been performance-enhancing drugs in sport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022851ab878e1b94ce8be04e363c95e90ca\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDoop\u201D was the word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a67d6a50d52d438fba5a641e578ef145\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDoop\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223848421122db4bcfa0122c6e1d054b03\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that was the Dutch word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202f8dfde5fea4781a0f9de8add659e45\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I thought it was \u201Cdope\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022533c010818e04eeaa9446e00128b0f29\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, \u201Cdoop\u201D\u2014d, o, o, p. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225edd6e52915d4304b3d5889e7d036640\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I am using another dictionary from Holland. Anyway, it is a small debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224634c56d57364e8bb0bb37fe655786b1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is a derivative, so to speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022166b1b3fdcc94f3f9d5a0afe5f12bc3b\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Thanks for that. I will look forward to hearing a call from the Minister shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat is actually happening is that this legislation is a bit of a tidy-up, as I look at it, because the old legislation looks to be a little bit fragmented and haphazard. I think that now what the Government Administration Committee and the Minister are trying to do\u2014which we are supporting\u2014is actually to modernise the rules around this subject and, in particular, around professionalism. It is really a matter of having a level playing field. I think back to the days when I used to play a little bit of rugby\u2014that is, rugby to National Provincial Championship standard. I remember coming off the field from one particular game and seeing a colleague of mine being given a jar and having to do a urine sample, there and then on the spot. So he went away to drink a whole lot of water\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230bb6605ebcb45ffb300fd967f199d3c\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: That was Jerry\u2019s problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7ae5e187bf14a969610a62f72932014\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I am not sure about that. So this legislation will actually tidy up a few things that need to be done in order to move our sporting ethics into the modernised world. But I think the key thing with sport\u2014and the Minister knows this, being a bit of a sport buff and having a history of playing for the parliamentary rugby team. Unfortunately, I do not think he will be putting on his boots next week for the golden oldies tournament, will he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262fb132ea11b41e499051d53c088b2fe\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201b7910b3d024826906f477ec0e55f77\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. That is actually a good comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9541e1cbaf34399adf6cfb5e2bd95ba\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In a rugby sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265fa2eea90744e8682906dadf56660f8\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. We will wait for 2008, or before, to see whether that becomes true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe good thing about sport, though, is that it enables participation, and I would hate to see this legislation stop people from playing sport. For a lot of rural and provincial areas around New Zealand it is extremely hard to attract people into our rugby clubs and sports clubs, so the important thing with sport is actually to make sure that people are able to participate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI was pleased to see that the select committee did not want to refer to the police people who take some of these substances, because that to me would seem a bit ludicrous. Someone may have to take a substance on the advice of a doctor. Pethidine or morphine are examples. It would seem stupid to refer that to the police, because right now we have problems in our society and we need the police out there solving those problems. Notwithstanding that, if a major drug ring were involved in sports, then it should be referred to the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI alert the Minister to new subclause (2A) of clause 30: \u201CIn recommending a person for appointment as a member of the Tribunal, the Minister must have regard to the person\u2019s personal attributes, qualifications, and skills.\u201D There are a couple of people up in Horowhenua whom I think the Minister might like to consider. One of those, of course, is Dean Kent, a fantastic swimmer, who did extremely well in the Commonwealth Games of 2006, when he obtained a silver medal in the 200 metre individual medley in the pool. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee00638c9cce4f9ebf96d82b6e22252f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t think he might have a conflict at the moment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d7f00585ca480a8041f816674579bd\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Ah\u2014not that I am aware of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a9fa6921364036b51cb1beab8885e2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Being a current athlete?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5cfb32647f4cc8bd581e1ac5193dcf\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes\u2014fair enough. I was meaning in more futuristic terms. The other one whom I think in the future the Minister might want to have a look at is a great sporting icon from Horowhenua, who is still playing a little bit. It is Carlos Spencer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226daec22261f94fe094b855211851c85a\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we thought you were talking about you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220cfaa1fc2124492ab3ec4e7a57f01fc\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, not myself, I have actually retired. It is Carlos Spencer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd63ccd562b84a0c90bc14c90003f9e2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s he playing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291faceb625ab4b72a462763bd5081fc9\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: He is playing at the moment over in Northampton in England, but he will be coming back to New Zealand at some stage soon. He got his first tattoo at the age of 15 while at Wai\u014Dpehu College. So I say well done; it is a good bill and we support it. I look forward\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226994ca6e2d044dd3888bad0191545b84\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Say \u201CMr Chairman\u201D, and you can keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea387dbfe934464b9ca5775a87580b7b\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairman?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f361de410d40239f01dc4bbb53b64a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: If you are praising me, you can keep going for another 5 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f70d0cefee649a5abe7d0c2f0ea6f12\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I look forward to the Minister taking a call, because I think he needs to do so on a couple of things. One is the definition he has got out of his dictionary, and the other is his talking about himself being history. I think it would be great if he could take a call and further explain that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002294193b0e89b94d428dc800520d4248fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294193b0e89b94d428dc800520d4248fe\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Sport and Recreation):\u003C/span\u003E I thank members for their contribution. I think it has been light-hearted, and members who know my rugby history with the parliamentary rugby team will know that they are not losing too much through my not being there with the team, although I will be thinking of them as they play. The member is absolutely right on the derivation of \u201Cdope\u201D. It does come from the Dutch, and the spelling is \u201Cdoop\u201D. We would probably have to consult with Mr Duynhoven to get the exact pronunciation, later on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI thank the Government Administration Committee for the work it has done on this bill. One point I would like to make is that although it was a spirited attack from Mr Hayes, he was entirely wrong. International athletes will not be able to become exempted by having diplomatic passports, because they will not appear through the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 64 in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Parts 3 and 4, and clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EParts 3 and 4 as amended, schedules, clause 1, and clause 2 as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8cad12b1c3440d3b9eaf7d51b790b3d\u0022\u003EBusiness Law Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022492d24fa41844677b932dad631d8747b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe438e1f7eb24f42b12ec0cf448bf08d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe438e1f7eb24f42b12ec0cf448bf08d\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Business Law Reform Bill be now read a second time. This is the third Business Law Reform Bill to come before the House. It is part of a programme of regular incremental reforms to improve our business laws. Most of the changes in the bill are not dramatic but improve the law in small ways. When those changes are taken together, the bill will make a significant contribution to keeping our business laws efficient, effective, and up to date, and will reduce unnecessary costs for business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Business Law Reform Bill contains 60 clauses, amending five business law statutes. It includes amendments to the Financial Reporting Act 1993, the Companies Act 1993, the Friendly Societies and Credit Unions Act 1982, the Insurance Companies\u2019 Deposits Act 1953, and two technical changes to the Dumping and Countervailing Duties Act 1988. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAs the explanatory note of the bill states, most of the amendments are based upon suggestions from business law practitioners, enforcements agencies, and the business community itself. It was these practitioners and members of the business community, as well as industry associations, who took the time to make submissions on the bill to the Commerce Committee. I acknowledge their experience and thank them for their advice in getting the bill to this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESome of the changes the bill makes are purely technical, and I do not want to discuss those. Instead, I want to talk briefly about areas of the bill where significant changes to our business laws are being made. The first relates to financial reporting. The proposed changes to the Financial Reporting Act 1993 are aimed at generally improving the workability of the financial reporting system and reducing business compliance costs. In particular, the bill will remove excessive compliance requirements on many small companies and overseas companies. Exempt company provisions are expanded to now include a two-out-of-three test: total assets of no more than $1 million, and/or turnover of under $2 million, and/or five or fewer fulltime-equivalent employees. I note from the select committee\u2019s report that there has been some debate about clause 28, which allows for these thresholds to be amended by the Governor-General by Order in Council. I appreciate the select committee\u2019s report. Basically, as the specialist committee, it has determined that the risk of proceeding with this provision would be minimal, so I thank it for considering that matter and reporting back in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe bill also includes a new exemption-making power that will empower the Accounting Standards Review Board to make exemptions from approved financial reporting standards. This is intended to be a safety-valve provision. The purpose of it is to recognise that on rare occasions international financial reporting standards may not always be fully applicable to New Zealand circumstances. This exemption power has been designed to be used very rarely, if ever. Divergence between standards in different sectors can lead to lower levels of accountability and transparency, and applicants will need to make very strong cases in order to obtain an exemption. The select committee in its report has drawn attention to the submissions that opposed the granting of the exemption-making power, and I know that the Accounting Standards Review Board was one of those. I appreciate the detail with which the select committee has both considered and responded to the concerns that were raised by the Accounting Standards Review Board and others. I accept its reasoning in rejecting those submissions and pursuing what is indeed intended to be a transparent process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOne of the key aims of the bill is to reduce compliance costs resulting from administrative procedures. In this regard the bill also proposes to exempt some overseas companies from some of the reporting requirements imposed on those companies registered under the Companies Act. Changes are also proposed that are aimed at reducing the cost of distributing reports to shareholders. Companies will inform shareholders that the annual report can be obtained in hard copy or electronically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think, though, that the most important change in this legislation\u2014one that I believe will help shareholders have a clear understanding of what it is that is being reported to them\u2014is the ability for companies to offer shareholders concise annual reports more suited to the needs of ordinary investors and not requiring legal or accounting advice to interpret what in many instances are much more complex statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ECurrently, inactive companies are required to file financial statements with the Registrar of Companies that contain little or no new information. The bill removes these filing requirements for inactive companies. It will also improve enforcement by introducing an infringement notice system for company directors who fail to file their company\u2019s financial statements with the Registrar of Companies by the due date. This will have a significant deterrent effect, in my view, and ensure that financial statements are indeed filed on time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EProposed changes to the Companies Act 1993 further improve enforcement by extending the management and director banning provisions to persons who have been banned in certain overseas jurisdictions. Together with the exemptions of some overseas companies from some of the filing requirements imposed on overseas companies registered under the Companies Act, these changes will improve the trans-Tasman business environment and promote single economic market agenda objectives between New Zealand and Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E The bill also proposes to prohibit entities incorporated or established in New Zealand from using the word \u201Cinsurance\u201D or other similar terms in their names, or from holding out overseas that they are New Zealand insurers when they are not, in fact, carrying on insurance business in New Zealand. There are now automatic exemptions to this proposed ban for insurance workers and industry associations; both groups submitted on the bill and actually fall outside the objective we had intended to meet with this legislation. This change to the Insurance Companies\u2019 Deposits Act is to prevent entities from representing that they are supervised under New Zealand\u2019s insurance regulatory regime when they are not, and is necessary to prevent potential damage to New Zealand\u2019s reputation internationally through companies behaving in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe changes to the Friendly Societies and Credit Unions Act 1982 provide some of changes that have been long awaited. However, substantive reform still awaits the review of financial products and providers that is currently in the market for consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, although the bill deals with a range of amendments, the amendments are united by the aim of keeping our business laws up to date, clear, efficient, and effective. The changes will help business by removing unnecessary compliance costs. I thank the members of the Commerce Committee for their work in considering this bill\u2014I actually believe they were quite outstanding\u2014and again acknowledge the contributions of those who provided submissions on the bill. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u00221662152a53b34d3f871bc66d689ef5f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221662152a53b34d3f871bc66d689ef5f7\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E That passionate delivery by the Minister of Commerce just shows the excitement and big dreams she has for the business community. Actually, the Minister\u2019s delivery reflected very fairly the way she treated the recommendations that came from the Small Business Advisory Group. It asked for courageous, bold steps such as relief for small business from the terrible employment situation where employers are too scared to employ inexperienced workers and give them a chance. It asked for a 3-month trial period for new employees, but what did this Minister deliver? Nothing. Instead she announced in the bill today just small, incremental steps to improve the business environment. Even though the Commerce Committee is a hard-working committee, I must admit that its members felt a bit underwhelmed by this legislation. None the less, any improvement for the business environment will be welcomed by National, and we fully support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI want to touch on two subjects that are quite interesting. The first subject is in regard to the provision that allows the Accounting Standards Review Board to make an exemption for certain entities not to comply with a financial reporting standard. Some of the submitters, particularly chartered accounting firms, put up objections to that. I was not surprised, because the accounting profession has a high degree of integrity. It is very nervous about making exemptions; it wants one standard for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EOur recent champion with a high profile was the Auditor-General, Mr Kevin Brady, who believed absolutely that there should be one standard. He should be \u201CSir Kevin Brady\u201D, and we should bring back the honours system for him, for insisting on one high standard for Labour. No political party should use parliamentary funding for electioneering purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EArguments about the same type of standard were put to the Commerce Committee by submitters from chartered accounting firms. They were very nervous and said they did not believe that exemptions should be granted, in that case. The Commerce Committee took their concerns to heart. We debated long and hard, and ultimately accepted that the risk was really small, so we went along with the provision. But I want to acknowledge the high integrity of the chartered accountants, who in their submissions said that a standard should be set at a high level, and that compliance should be enforced at all times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe second subject is in regard to the relaxation of the rules governing credit unions. This is another interesting story. The Minister was right; these amendments are long overdue. In fact, relaxation of the rules governing credit unions was promised by one Hon Jim Anderton, before Kiwibank was established. The credit unions met with the Hon Jim Anderton and he actually hinted that the rules would be relaxed for them, and that they could in fact take on banking functions. The credit unions were promised, but it did not happen. They were very disappointed when they brought their concerns to me, which was about 2 years ago. So we are happy to see these amendments at long last, but I am afraid to inform the Hon Jim Anderton that that is another broken promise. He raised the expectation of the credit unions many years ago that there would be a relaxation in their operation, but it was not delivered. The whole package has not been delivered even today. Labour Ministers do not aim for a huge improvement, so National has now learnt that it is obliged to support any small concession that Labour is prepared to make towards improvements for the business community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3743104a1184e29bc1b848cd78c58d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3743104a1184e29bc1b848cd78c58d3\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL (National\u2014Rakaia):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by saying that anything that reduces compliance costs for my constituents has my support, albeit what has been suggested in this legislation is rather superficial. The Minister, in her introductory remarks, told us that the Business Law Reform Bill is an omnibus bill that makes a number of changes to commercial legislation as suggested by Government officials and lawyers. That is an oxymoron if ever I have heard one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EGovernment officials and lawyers are the sorts of people who in my experience perpetuate compliance and have a vested interest in making sure that it is not reduced. If the Minister wants to rely on that quality of advice I say to her that it is no wonder she has problems intellectualising what needs to be done to reduce compliance costs across New Zealand. The Minister went on to outline a number of amended Acts, and she pointed out that the Companies Act 1993, the Dumping and Countervailing Duties Act, the Financial Reporting Act 1993, the Friendly Societies and Credit Unions Act, and the Insurance Companies\u2019 Deposits Act 1953 had been amended. I have to say that they are all worthy changes, albeit relatively minor in the scale of things. The two that are most noteworthy are, firstly, the Companies Act, where directors banned overseas will be banned in New Zealand, and that makes sense. The bill goes on to say that it will remove filing requirements for foreign companies if information is supplied to the home regulator and provides an option of electronic accounts for shareholders. They are sensible amendments and, of course, we support those. Secondly, the Financial Reporting Act 1993 is amended to provide for the removal of unnecessary reporting requirements and to increase the eligibility for small businesses to have minimal filing responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EI am pleased to say that the Minister has taken heed of two things that were concerning business people across the country, and they are probably the two items that business people advised the Minister of, as opposed to Government officials and lawyers. Let us have a look at some of the more substantive issues not addressed in this bill. The first thing that comes to mind is the correlation between lawyers and the Resource Management Act. Am I the only one who has noticed in the last 10 years the huge explosion of legal practices that have developed based solely on the Resource Management Act? The Minister said in the House that she has taken advice from lawyers who have been telling her how compliance costs could be reduced. Lawyers who have practices substantially based on the Resource Management Act have a vested interest in making sure that the Resource Management Act continues unabridged in its most complex form. It is rather naive of the Minister to think that she can rely on their advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThis Government has increased 40 different taxes, fees, and levies since taking office and a further four are proposed. And the Minister says that she is serious about reducing compliance costs! The Business New Zealand latest publication, Regulation Perspectives, calculates that over 2,000 new regulations have been introduced since 1999. I know that the member from New Zealand First will probably take a call after me. He has a habit of quoting things I have said, so I hope he gets it right. Two thousand new regulations have been introduced since 1999. Many of these regulations affect businesses, and the average cost to each firm was $53,000 in 2005, which is an increase of nearly 17 percent, up from $43,200 in 2003. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EThe issues addressed in the Al Dunn report in 1999-2000 are the critical issues that the Minister should have addressed in this bill but did not. The Al Dunn report highlighted 162 compliance issues that were of such importance the Government needed to take heed of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdfdf8fd6c244e51a22eff3d2ffc3436\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: And this is for only minor issues!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db70ccb00589475aa93ee7e793df2b8a\u0022\u003EBRIAN CONNELL\u003C/span\u003E: Pansy Wong points out that this bill is for only minor issues. I am sorry; I got the wrong end of the stick. I thought it was a bill that would reduce the costs of compliance per se. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E Of the 162 items that the Al Dunn report highlighted, 143 of those said tax, the Resource Management Act, Occupational Safety and Health, and industrial relations are the four critical issues that the Government has to come to terms with. So I read the bill carefully, I looked for the components that were going to deal with tax, the Resource Management Act, Occupational Safety and Health, and industrial relations, and I am sad to have to report to the House that they have not been addressed. That explains, I say to Pansy Wong, why the Minister, when she took her call, did so in a very dispirited way. She mumbled and murmured into her microphone because she knew that the acid test of this bill would be in the detail, and that when the business people, whom she did not consult, sat down and read this bill they would be terribly, terribly disappointed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003EI leave the House with just one quick example of why compliance costs and red tape in this country have got out of control. I suggest to the New Zealand First member that if he is ever down in Hinds, there is good little hotel there, called the Hinds Pub, surprisingly enough. I was in there speaking to constituents and a drink was forced on me. I was having a conversation with a chap who said: \u201CFive years ago, I relied on the dole to maintain my livelihood, but that was leading me nowhere. So I started a business cutting firewood and have been doing that job for 5 years, Mr Connell.\u201D He was one of the respectful constituents I have. \u201CBut today, I am extremely annoyed, because when I got home this evening, before I came down to the pub, I got a letter form OSH saying that in order to pursue my chosen career I had to get a certificate that demonstrated that I knew how to use the chainsaw that I have been using for the last 5 years.\u201D That certificate was going to cost him 250 bucks. And do members know what he said? He said: \u201CI feel like throwing it all away.\u201D Actually, that is the polite way of saying it. What he actually said was: \u201CI feel like taking my chainsaw to Wellington and dealing with the bureaucrats and your colleagues up there who think that this type of legislation is sensible.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003ENowhere in this legislation do I see anything that has come to grips with those concerns that drive hard-working business people across this country to distraction. With that contribution, I conclude.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u00228e077db1c81b41be8c0f63900c047a8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e077db1c81b41be8c0f63900c047a8a\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First will support the Business Law Reform Bill. In doing so, I have to say that New Zealand First has never been in favour of increasing compliance costs, taxation, or any of those sorts of things. The two big parties in New Zealand have increased taxes and done all of those things perfectly well for many, many years without our assistance. New Zealand First has a record of voting for tax reductions and we will continue to do so into the future. I will talk a little bit about reducing compliance costs and a little bit about the Dumping and Countervailing Duties Act for just a short period\u2014in general terms, I might add\u2014then I am happy to leave it to other speakers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EBefore I do that, for those who preach doom and gloom, whether it is in New Zealand or anywhere else in the Western economies, people like Brian Connell and others who are well versed in these things and whose business expertise I respect, will tell them that around the Western World and in New Zealand, businesses across the board\u2014not small businesses, I might tell members\u2014are getting bigger and better and wealthier day by day. That is not always for producing the same things\u2014the right things\u2014or for exporting, which New Zealand First favours. Often they are importing companies and financial companies. New Zealand First certainly believes in incentivising the tax system for companies\u2014we have said that consistently\u2014and businesses in the racing industry are some that come to mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI will talk about compliance costs. We in New Zealand First believe that compliance costs should be reduced. We are certainly not in favour of extra regulation, and the sorts of occupational safety and health things that Mr Connell talked about, but those things are coming in. However, we are in favour of reducing compliance costs where we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI will talk just for a minute about dumping and countervailing duties. In this country, unfortunately, we have come into the situation where we are importing just about everything we use, mainly from Asian countries such as China and India. Those countries have excessively low wages and excessively high inputs from their Governments\u2014in the case of China, it is a communist Government at that\u2014yet those countries can still get their products into New Zealand. We talk about anti-dumping legislation and countervailing duty legislation that we do not use, but we should be using these sorts of mechanisms to ensure that, at least to some degree, our manufacturers and exporters have more of an opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI was in Australia just a little while ago\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af996a6331104491aab0edabe7737e3e\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: How were the apples?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9fb62d22476428898ca500755b02655\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I will not talk about apples, but Australians are pretty good at keeping our apples out of their country and at protecting theirs. But more interesting was a place called\u2014now I have forgotten the name of it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aaf268f9d1243e0bbb7e55c569b64e1\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CAppleville\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dfdba0338344e8c8dc589abb3a8714a\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was where the tornadoes went through and wrecked the banana plantations, down on the Queensland coast. The Prime Minister of Australia, no less, promised the banana growers that the Australian Government would not import bananas from other countries because it would hold the faith with the banana growers of Australia. It would hold faith, let the prices rise, and would not import bananas from Fiji, South America, or anywhere else. The price of bananas when I was over there was $14 a kilogram\u2014huge!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c598ffd3-4771-4027-a15f-5d1f643631e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06638afda324c4882f28ae244138b2a\u0022\u003EBrian Connell\u003C/span\u003E: That was the last week\u2019s special.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d513bde130f48199cfe6291bc14e51e\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I know that it is last week\u2019s special and I know that it is last week\u2019s news. But if we are going to talk about business, business costs, and countervailing duties, then we need to talk about what the Australians do compared with what we do here in New Zealand. In Australia\u2014as New Zealand First would advocate\u2014the Government looks after its businesses. My goodness gracious me, does it look after its businesses or what! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, if we had sectors of our manufacturing areas or our farming areas wiped out, the stuff would come flooding in from any country in the world at the cheapest price possible, and to heck with the local producers. But not in Australia. John Howard himself got up and promised the banana farmers that, as they had had a reversal of circumstances and an act of God had come through and destroyed their crops, the Government would hold the faith with them and would not import bananas in competition with theirs. The price would rise so that, for the few bananas the growers had, they could receive a high dollar, which in some way would compensate for the losses they had had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand First believe that that is a sensible way, and it is indeed a way of looking after industries in one\u2019s own country. New Zealand First is happy to support this bill. It goes some way towards attending to the problems that we have in our industries, but not nearly far enough, as far as we are concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00229e2fa398a6de4d65baa35f3225e67833\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e2fa398a6de4d65baa35f3225e67833\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E There will be no bananas or any other fruit, cakes, or anything like that in my speech, which will take a quick few moments. Yes, National is supporting the second reading of the Business Law Reform Bill. I thank the Minister and the Commerce Committee as well, because I think they did listen to some amendments. But I want to pick up on one point that my colleague Pansy Wong alluded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2006102596b08f9c5a98419289591022586f067d000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"