"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002299e6ad0d70ec4e94829ebb685237ae8f\u0022\u003EThursday, 9 November 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc0e77c53cb1402696f6118002c7bce6\u0022\u003EThursday, 9 November 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d97b28f0497487bbe60eeeb7c7885ff\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f52c7cfd28cf495d8acd748c06403984\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022501e53bddc3744e3bf08c66a140e7f45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022501e53bddc3744e3bf08c66a140e7f45\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week in the House priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Business Law Reform Bill, the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill, the Geographical Indications (Wine and Spirits) Registration Bill, the Social Security (Long-term Residential Care) Amendment Bill, and any first readings of bills that appear above the line on the Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d831007b4859412fbd68cb7fbaec06a3\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230821b1bf6b04b87aed8624946c079b9\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022592c4345dbcf48b79613b6f9385ec660\u0022\u003ERegional Development\u2014Growth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022919fca97fc174c4c86dcd777f79c7f63\u0022\u003E1. DARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Industry and Regional Development: What is the Government doing to stimulate growth in regional New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002246af1f178edc40928bc0ff678304c603\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246af1f178edc40928bc0ff678304c603\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Industry and Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E Heaps. In the last week there have been two very recent major regional initiatives announced. The first is in Kapiti-Horowhenua. Thanks to the very good work of my colleague Darren Hughes, $1.96 million will be provided towards a DesignTex project that aims to strengthen the region\u2019s and the country\u2019s textile businesses and enable them to be more globally competitive. The second initiative, announced yesterday, was in the Wairarapa. The Government will provide $1.9 million towards cuisine and fine wine; a major regional initiative that aims to build on the region\u2019s wine and food reputation in order to take it to an international level. It involves an international partnership. Both these initiatives play to the key strengths of the regions. They fit perfectly with this Government\u2019s agenda to transform New Zealand into an export-led, high-wage, innovative economy. [Interruption] The member should read it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278345c8d6c0d4632b5e5aac3c87dea47\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What results can New Zealanders expect to see from these initiatives, particularly the most excellent one in the Kapiti and Horowhenua region?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b104068ff9924cddbf48d7c55d78f7e0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: High-quality, high-wage jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9cab8c89460458993f457b09b8aaabd\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that other initiatives such as Export Year 2007 will act positively to stimulate growth in regional New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a51faa8912cb4810a9f2fb168ef6ab85\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and I thank the member for his work on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec9db589cd5f4e3a9c509a7ed2ec6dbd\u0022\u003ECarbon Tax\u2014Climate Change, Minister\u0027s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297eee521bdd34dbdacaf844e84e9e264\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: How does he reconcile his statement last year, that \u201CThe Government has decided not to implement a carbon tax, or any other broad-based tax, in the first commitment period under the Kyoto Protocol.\u201D, with his statement in this morning\u2019s New Zealand Herald that a State-imposed carbon tax could end plans for a coal-fired Marsden B power station?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed4f9a152f52486b803d6e844632a88a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed4f9a152f52486b803d6e844632a88a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Easily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252fa8b1fb3754a7e80fecf7ca537855b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government announce a carbon tax in 2004, saying it was the right approach; then in 2005 drop it, saying it would not work; yet now in 2006 it is again saying the carbon tax is a good idea; and with such flip-flops is it any wonder there is complete confusion about the Government\u2019s climate change policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291463f898c5f4239803937764238ac3b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That member obviously should clean out his ears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ace7771771ee4cb189252a25fa0e6c63\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. We are not having the sort of editorialising that goes on. We ask questions and we give answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf358a154aa8436e87b8806b9f979d51\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member should know that I said, in December last year, and have repeatedly stated since, that the Government is considering pricing emissions in the electricity sector through emissions trading, a narrower carbon tax, or other measures. Unlike the National Party, we have been consistent in pursuit of climate change policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f6e1ae1-8aa5-4f71-8e73-30bb378026c4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225546cc01b1d54499a18b5913b1bb2e57\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any further reports about consistency in climate change policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd70027ba1014a9b9f978cfdf10fb921\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received reports the Government has been consistent in pursuit of climate change policy. The Permanent Forest Sink Initiative is but one example, which now has widespread support in the House. National opposed it on the first reading of the bill. National opposed it at the select committee. John Key said, at the first reading: \u201CI rise on behalf of the National Party to give the good news to the people of New Zealand\u2014that is, the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill is a load of rubbish and the National Party will not be supporting it, for very, very good reasons indeed.\u201D Talk about inconsistency, Dr Smith!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd31a9e920645b3a2a293047924d87b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile the statement made by the Prime Minister at Labour\u2019s conference\u2014that the Government did not proceed with the carbon tax because it could not get a parliamentary majority to put it in place\u2014with his statement made on Morning Report on 22 December: \u201CWe haven\u2019t even endeavoured to find a parliamentary majority for the carbon tax, because we don\u2019t think it\u2019s appropriate.\u201D, and his press release made at the time that: \u201CA carbon tax would not cut emissions enough to justify its introduction.\u201D; and who is telling the truth, himself or the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64153cc3fac4551bb4fb3273b090660\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: As was said at the time, it was clear in terms of parliamentary majorities that National, United Future, New Zealand First, and the M\u0101ori Party during the election had said they would not support the carbon tax. That means we did not have a parliamentary majority. It is also true that at the time the whole-of-Government review into climate change policy indicated there might be better ways to design a carbon tax, and for both of those reasons we have done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eadd3ed853674be19273e6d2d44586db\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement made by the Minister of Revenue, Peter Dunne, on this Monday on Climate Rescue Radio, that a carbon tax would not make a lick of difference and would not proceed; if so, why did he yesterday tell the New Zealand Herald the opposite; and whom do we believe\u2014the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues, or the Minister of Revenue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9bd2786042046369b8386678ccc17c3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is no doubt that introducing a price for carbon emissions at the margin for new electricity generation does affect emissions, because it changes the relative profitability or the relative economics of different sorts of generation. If the House wants confirmation of that from other than me, I quote from the same article that Dr Smith quoted from earlier, in respect of comments made by Mr Williams about Mighty River\u2019s proposal at Marsden B: \u201CWhether it\u2019s built will depend on other things such as whether a carbon tax is imposed. If a carbon tax is imposed, it makes the project relatively less attractive. The bigger the tax, the less attractive it becomes.\u201D So I wouldn\u2019t disagree with the Minister\u2019s statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f85f3a03ef46288f0fba824ec53daf\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister say on Climate Rescue Radio: \u201CYou ask me what date would New Zealand be carbon neutral. We haven\u2019t picked a date yet. You\u2019ll find it becomes clear in 6 months.\u201D, when the truth is that the Prime Minister\u2019s carbon-neutral promise is a fantasy, and his Government has no intention of ever setting a date by which it will be achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136885af96a74478ae68a30ec8f42c0d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a fantasy to aspire to be carbon neutral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecfe6a07d1ed4055a3fb9d86da906051\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister now tell the House when the Government will meet this objective of the Prime Minister of being carbon neutral, or will he at least tell us when the Government will set a date for that goal to be achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a692c66f4f214df4a29576b77ad88d26\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231be5bbba23f49a0b263d6a7a392e88f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the advice from Treasury that there is no realistic policy by which his Government can achieve the Kyoto targets by 2012; and what sense does it make to not be able to meet that very modest target, when the Prime Minister proposed the unbelievable target of New Zealand being carbon neutral?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef89cb74ae9d47ab85aaa846270e9545\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That shows the difference between National and Labour on climate change. We think it is appropriate to aspire to be carbon neutral in the longer term\u2014we did not say in the shorter term; we said in the longer term. National is beset with indifference on this issue, because its own leader even now cannot unconditionally agree that climate change is a problem. I seek leave to table the transcript of an interview with Dr Brash on the regional farming show, when he said: \u201CThe National Party, I have to say, isn\u2019t convinced that the science on climate change is finally settled.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264253888ab6f43e7b1ea2a1be8cc330d\u0022\u003ETransport, Agriculture, Energy, Ministers\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227713c42950b43e0b518b29c0fc47fd6\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence that her Ministers of Transport, Agriculture, and Energy will be able to develop adequate plans for their sectors to implement the goal she stated yesterday in the House \u201Cnot to put more carbon into the atmosphere than [New Zealand] is able to offset by other means.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3322f5bb6174ee984b6fb3ce2f6d405\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3322f5bb6174ee984b6fb3ce2f6d405\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E As has been said, the goal is aspirational. I have full confidence in those Ministers to develop plans to work towards that goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4102fc178f45e0b6810723f4377ea7\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government commit to ensuring that next year\u2019s transport emissions\u201415 million tonnes of carbon dioxide\u2014will be offset, for example, by converting almost 800,000 hectares of land, which is all of the land from Parliament up to Masterton and Levin, into permanent forest; if not by next year, then when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad910ed3594944768f82bf658f99e82e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not anticipate all of that particular area of land ever being converted to permanent forest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc28071d04574a01865b23accc9ea573\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Government reconcile the damning rhetoric of Labour Ministers and MPs with George W Bush\u2019s record on climate change and the accusations that he is the pocket of oil barons, when the United Nations figures tabled in Nairobi this week show that New Zealand\u2019s emissions have grown since Labour has been in office by 6.8 percent, as compared with 1.3 percent for the US in the same period\u2014that is, emissions in New Zealand have been growing at five times the rate of those of the United States?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed3efc7c383a4cff8fd22348d9146c1c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Over the short term there have indeed been some differences, but US emissions of carbon dioxide are the seventh-highest in the world at 24.3 tonnes per person, whereas New Zealand\u2019s emissions are 18.5 tonnes per person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203b4928949a44c0484b5376ae74bb40f\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister commit to ensuring that next year\u2019s agricultural emissions\u201437 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent\u2014are offset, for example, by converting almost 2 million hectares of land, which is 80 percent of the Waikato region, into permanent forest; if not by next year, then when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3ead646c9a74667bd82d8335365b5ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I doubt whether that will ever occur. To remove New Zealand\u2019s dairy industry substantially, and a large part of its horticulture industry, would make it much more difficult in the long term to meet not merely climate change emissions targets but any other targets the Government sets in any other policy area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbede22f326744228789360c5d4286be\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister explain the Government\u2019s record of forest plantings dropping in every single year that the Government has been in office, to the point where the last 2 years have seen more trees logged than planted\u2014for the first time since 1953\u2014whereas neighbouring Australia has increased afforestation in every year since 1999 and has planted an additional 450,000 hectares of forest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e7bbc736d6943718ed79b3b6512794b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member would care to project his figures slightly backwards, he would find that in almost every year during the 1990s forest planting also dropped. It halved between 1996 and 1999. The primary reason for that was the large-scale conversion of land to dairying, plus low timber prices. If the National Party continues to propose policies whereby there is to be no negative impact on any part of any primary sector industry, it will find it quite impossible, in fact, to achieve any targets in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e4c404548542949d7788854ecb9dcf\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I know that it is normal to table documents at the end of a question, but given the assertions made by the Acting Prime Minister I seek leave to table the record of forest plantings, which shows that plantings grew\u2014every single year\u2014from 16,000 hectares in 1990 to 98,000 hectares in 1998. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240627fc252d74d10b8be8bf94ec4bbf6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing the planting rates over the last 30 years, which indeed grew somewhat in the early 1990s, peaked in 1994, and then continued to drop almost every year thereafter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c96fb18c359433eb7bd3c43fc4af6b8\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Acting Prime Minister\u2019s response to my last two questions, does the Government then agree with the Green Party that a dramatic reduction of emissions will have to play a major role in the Government\u2019s excellent goal of achieving carbon neutrality, and that the goal cannot all be achieved by offsets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b08771a371ff46d8865ecd14be7970aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is absolutely clear. We do need to achieve much greater energy efficiency. We need to achieve a much greater reduction in emissions in terms of our transport usage. Clearly, also, those need to be long-term measures, because dramatic short-term adjustments would have serious impacts upon the economy, leading to massive unemployment and social dislocation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ef3694bd7124c74a32672b5835d20c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Prime Minister stated that energy efficiency is the Government\u2019s priority, when the Government\u2019s own review of its energy efficiency strategy in March this year showed that despite spending $110 million on its much-vaunted strategy, energy efficiency improvements have declined in the 5 years of this Government as compared with the 5 years of the previous National Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c1056d44cd445bb909f234035743d68\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: There is no question that the strong economic growth over the last few years has had an impact in that respect. It is now time to ensure that we get greater energy efficiency over the longer term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a1224fd1ece42278733134b34b366f4\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why do you always get it wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bd777f1679744069b84d09e9d49b58b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, if the member who is now interjecting is prepared to close down the aluminium smelter, he will probably contribute in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224596191f257847f5b3ac6451c8437560\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. With respect, I think you should have ruled that question out of order, because there never were 5 years of the previous National Government. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aaa9c2cbf9441e593d432374f2d71b5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is entitled to make his point of order in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be1f44f6b653438597ee2dac57153323\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I am making my point of order because it is historically a fact, and it is not to be dismissed or stood by in the way that I think you are tempted to do, Madam Speaker. I am making a serious point here. There were not 5 years of the previous National Government. Everybody knows that. The member should have been ruled out of order straight away and asked to ask a question with some historical accuracy. Between 1996 and 1998 there was a coalition Government\u2014and, of course, that was the only time the country was run properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ed7e75a82747d9b0c55dc212295449\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I encourage you to accept Mr Peters\u2019 point of order. If he is willing to take responsibility for the rise in emissions during the period when he was the Deputy Prime Minister, I think we should allow him to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d200506a9a64e2c9bba0c9f9649a492\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the members for their contributions. Members are, of course, as they know, responsible for the facts of their supplementary questions. It is not for the Speaker to judge whether the questions are factual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022153166f3418840d7a633f8a8b2fe4ffe\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the formal review done by the Government of its energy efficiency strategy, which shows that after spending $110 million, things are a lot worse than they were before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c83d8df66d42b09646dfd28388eab3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b0b8775ffb0465791c2ff6f72c7b958\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022563bf8e0a2064dd489824d15cb3f6a71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563bf8e0a2064dd489824d15cb3f6a71\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether this question might be held over until later in the session when the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs will be able to be with us. I have a copy of his diary and he is certainly available, but clearly detained in getting to question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b4cedef9cf94fdf99bd3ed2cecd6de5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is for the Government to decide who in fact answers the question. Is the member seeking leave?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be09db94e17a4647a952a892a4c41bc6\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I sought leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8fc07f68324671afe76ea1cf88021e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I had not realised you were seeking leave. Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cceadc707564fa6861eb16d8ea82669\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: They say \u201CYou can run but you can\u2019t hide.\u201D, but the member cannot do either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a816302e60c4b4a9220b76bd3192d55\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will please just ask the question. [Interruption] We are trying to keep order in this House and it is comments like that that create disorder. Would members please just ask their questions and give the answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9f319257cdc4e0f9ba764bc7892b066\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It also causes disorder when the Government decides that Ministers are not capable of answering questions and therefore does not let them come to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299ce50135e2046bdbaad6fa44e3034a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: There is no truth in that matter. As the member can neither run nor hide, there is no need for him to raise the sensitive issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5904a548b984cecbf10a59052dc464a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think this is getting us anywhere. Would the member just ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cc1af6063e74060b33ec681cf5f58b0\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to take Parekura on over the 100-metres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231278c9410274b34b8c319204c36d0f0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is our humour quota for the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c25d2117df346609519df61fd53cde4\u0022\u003EClosing the Gaps Policy\u2014Success\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce2fb0f373a42e58e2540203ff95359\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Was the closing the gaps policy successful?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u0022a35c613492d946fc8737c2260801665b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a35c613492d946fc8737c2260801665b\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Minister of State)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: I would happily take up Gerry Brownlee\u2019s offer for a 100-metres! I can advise the House that the results speak for themselves, including the lowest M\u0101ori unemployment on record, high wage growth for M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori participation in early childhood and tertiary education as the highest on record. More M\u0101ori are involved in business, and M\u0101ori life expectancy has increased. Nevertheless, the Government is committed to doing much more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170fd80c42574f658df8715c60fb725e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister claim to have reduced inequities between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori when the Ministry of Social Development reported that from 2000 to 2004 the number of M\u0101ori living in severe hardship increased by 243 percent, and Dr Susan St John of the University of Auckland stated that families of beneficiaries, 31 percent of whom are M\u0101ori, are particularly marginalised by current Government policy, with most missing out on Working for Families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c647ff9fbdc3459a994c8dcf407b646a\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The Government acknowledges that there is a lot more to be done in the area of M\u0101ori social development. As well, the most recent household employment statistics tell us that in the year to the end of September 2006 M\u0101ori unemployment had decreased from 8.5 to 8 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224029b198-a7b2-4eea-867c-79ef46cafeb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022455dd51b57ba49449555450e0fb36931\u0022\u003EHon Dover Samuels\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received reports that secret dinners between the M\u0101ori Party and the National Party will close the gaps between iwi and the M\u0101ori Party? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bfb0753200c40ffb6f00d9a5958313d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member is right. That question is entirely out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235ca79eebc784003bcdb0390dceb299b\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Can the Minister then explain how the Hon Tariana Turia\u2019s proposal to give the seabed and foreshore back to the Crown and extinguish Ng\u0101ti Porou and Wh\u0101nau-a-Apanui takutai moana negotiations will close the gaps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022530b964ba09f47c1b2e79c70a5064316\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That question is also out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ec72de532f44fbb8d1b2e052ddc09e1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister continue to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0cc4c98e8554242ae0e049c040eecca\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You ruled my colleague Pita Paraone\u2019s question out of order, and frankly I want to know why, because if there was to be, for example, a closing the gaps strategy different from that advocated by Labour, then it might have some features, one of which might be different ownership for the seabed and foreshore by the Crown. That is what the proposal is, and I think it is a fair question to ask. Just because the National Party does not like it does not mean it should not be heard by this Parliament. I thought my colleague seriously asked the question, and more important, he has four decades of experience on the problem\u2014a darn sight more than most in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d25e387eb9c40c39d5622952f1ab235\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. Both questions were ruled out of order because there is no reference to foreshore and seabed within the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5ec92a1959d4add8fa523cc2f80273f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff0ac693a4de4ac98ee26d943d95cb69\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled on the matter, Mr Peters. A new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f03e9c7311e44528a773e68c1e07883\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: This is a new point of order. Is there some sort of rule today that says that if the matter is not in the primary question, it may not be raised by way of a supplementary question, or that everybody must stay on the primary question and nothing else? If that is new ruling, then it has been disobeyed totally, time after time. My colleague sought to ask a question as to how, if there was different ownership, it would affect M\u0101ori wealth in the future. He asked what the economic effect would be if the foreshore and seabed were owned by M\u0101ori, and not the Crown by inference. Closing the gaps, I thought, was an economic and social strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206b74efceb20407ab487914c5a9ad8e3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I refer him perhaps for his assistance to Speaker\u2019s ruling 151/2, which states: \u201CSupplementary questions must arise directly from the Minister\u2019s reply; they must be related to it not indirectly but directly.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295245fb5941a4a938c4ee08793592f67\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How can he claim to have reduced inequalities between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori when as at June this year M\u0101ori earned on average 30 percent less than non-M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori are 50 percent more likely to be living on less than two-thirds of the average wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dcd32d0a0094e9d94578f5010914e2d\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: I will speak slowly this time. The Government acknowledges that there is a lot more to do in M\u0101ori social and economic development. I did highlight the point in my answer to the primary question that M\u0101ori income is on a steady increase, but we also acknowledge that there is a lot more to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269d98f0382ae45a692b44997c90848e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister said that the Government was working on other initiatives to advance M\u0101ori, was one of those initiatives contemplating having the foreshore and seabed in the ownership of any group or body other than the Crown; amen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022153e0d866a6245fca302fd13a4219fc7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would ask that member to please leave the Chamber. I am tired of the insolence at the rulings of the Chair. I am sorry, Mr Peters. You can finish with this question, but that was totally out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222be5dd104ca44e7f85e4a361eae096ec\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: As we are aware, there are negotiations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226609f26d83674fff9ac2208f346d7cc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b0a08d580e4906a9765fda3f4a28c9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry Mr Peters, but your comment \u201Camen\u201D at the end of your question was obviously a disrespectful reference to my former ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228227bc3857644e34bb320eaa4d236187\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: As the House is aware, currently negotiations are under way between the iwi of Wh\u0101nau-a-Apanui and Ng\u0101ti Porou to determine their foreshore and seabed customary rights. I see that as a positive step forward in terms of the economic development of those two iwi. However, the foreshore and seabed bill tabled in the House by the M\u0101ori Party, intends to extinguish the blue-water rights that Te Arawa have over an area called \u014Ck\u016Brei, or commonly known as Little Waih\u012B. I am sure that the member for Waiariki does not want this to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d2d655f232c49ff992f75de989ee99c\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Who instructed the chief executive of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to remove its legislative function for monitoring and evaluation in 2005 and to shift resources, and can he explain to the House whether those resources were used for closing the gaps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258613419266e457089d643f0f2a00ecf\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: There has never been a lessening on the focus of monitoring mainstream agencies in terms of delivery of services to M\u0101ori. What has happened in more recent months is that it is done now through collaboration, not through imposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6b8281c83c84b798db336466e151c3c\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think the Minister has misled the House, because the chief executive officer of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri reported that before the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022975cbd8b891a4943bc92f95b5ba49d27\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, the chief executive officer for Te Puni K\u014Dkiri did not say that. He said that there is still a strong focus on monitoring and evaluating mainstream services through a collaborative approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9f0c1a69f440289481c52cfed34683\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think this is a matter of debate, not a matter of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227edd07721f6343b09eb59cc99cd6a72a\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How can he claim to have significantly increased living standards for M\u0101ori when the Ministry of Health reports that M\u0101ori adults are 267 percent more likely to suffer from type 2 diabetes than non-M\u0101ori adults, and that if current Government policies remain the same, by 2020, 50 percent more M\u0101ori will suffer from type 2 diabetes, making M\u0101ori adults four times more likely than non-M\u0101ori adults to suffer from that debilitating health condition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1ecda74301446abcd962be07af4948\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said to the House, there is still a lot of work to be done in the area of M\u0101ori social and economic development, as the member clearly heard. The member should also realise that M\u0101ori life expectancy has increased dramatically under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c9f32b416f74502bc5e6f88c22e9428\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Noting that comment, is he satisfied that a child born into a M\u0101ori family has a six times greater chance of dying of sudden infant death syndrome than if born into a non-M\u0101ori family?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed1579cb6e64ad1a1fa544d6b4fa5d8\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows well that those statistics have been around for a very, very long time, including when that party was in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e8b056322f84c859b94a237b24a13f9\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I did ask the Minister whether he was happy with that statistic. Simply saying that it has been around a long time is not really an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0de4e85a00a4bf49775c1d31f7aa62e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, you cannot require a yes or no answer. The Minister addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca4e1a9060d466282f055c0d738f392\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: What contribution has he had to perverse Labour Government policies that have seen the proportion of M\u0101ori experiencing severe hardship increase by 243 percent, M\u0101ori health indicators deteriorate to such an extent as expressed today, while those in prison get underfloor heating, trips to the beach, steak and ice cream, R-rated videos, Xbox games, and high definition LCD TVs, and is prison life the new aspiration Labour has for M\u0101ori? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da68f75496a9484d901f7a643ca97b3c\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: To the second part of that question, absolutely not. But the member should take the time out to read the Ministry of Health\u2019s monthly reports to the Minister of Health and to the Associate Ministers of Health highlighting the activities that they have committed to decreasing the negative statistics in all areas of M\u0101ori health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3dbe2e6bcd44e208e0c37863a67b940\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If the Minister is challenging us to read those reports, can he give an undertaking in the House now to release all the reports that he has received during his time as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221749c3db660443f28f66963615f859be\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, that is more a matter of a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a75ca36e57664f9a97eb37434b4d6768\u0022\u003ETourist Spending\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1466f4f7d414b67b8150224475bb954\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Tourism: What recent reports has he received on international visitor spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002238f458e311d44fd1a60fb35b37823172\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238f458e311d44fd1a60fb35b37823172\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to say that figures released today show that international visitor spending in New Zealand increased to $7 billion in the year to June 2006. This represents a massive increase of 16.5 percent on the previous year, or close to $1 billion. This is a huge boost for the economy and, once again, demonstrates the importance of the tourism industry to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224431dd1e6afe438fbc6a8f233022a027\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: What has this Government done for the tourism industry since coming into power in 1999?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f76d9f1e54344220bdffc5c6666e1988\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Since 1999 the Labour-led Government has established the Ministry of Tourism to enhance the whole-of-Government approach to tourism policy. We have developed the New Zealand Tourism Strategy 2010 and are currently undertaking a review. We have provided significant funding for a major expansion of the Qualmark quality grading system for tourism, and we have funded tourism infrastructure projects through the tourism facilities grant. This has emphasised the importance of the tourism industry to the economy, and this Government\u2019s important commitment to that industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218b29147851f4471b36dbddc3234d860\u0022\u003EHealth Expenditure\u2014Wastage\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022338e1d1a104a4e71aede0e9c8dcdf2fc\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is there any financial waste in the health system; if so, where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecd216804f0e441ca9262d0519d6fb48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecd216804f0e441ca9262d0519d6fb48\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: I can confirm that over the past 2 weeks the health system has unexpectedly had to invest considerable resources to make sure children do not die from avoidable deaths, after a member of this House intentionally created ill-founded fears about the meningococcal B immunisation campaign. I am not in a position to classify that as waste, but I hope Mr Ryall feels that the political pay-off was worth the public resources that had to be spent to set the record straight in order to protect the health of children in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1de2b2e02c4a4688add7979cb05625\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read this week\u2019s Auditor-General report on the health funding package that looks at the extra taxpayer money put into the health system in recent years, and what is his reaction to the Auditor-General\u2019s conclusion that it is not possible to say how the billions of extra dollars were ultimately spent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dac3f0b186346ac819985ac9cddc180\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The Auditor-General\u2019s report is a very detailed one, and I suggest that the member reads it all. If he did, he would find that the Ministry of Health had made well-documented decisions on the use of the health funding package. The member needs to keep in mind that district health boards and the Ministry of Health produce annual reports in which the allocation of funding is outlined, and where parliamentarians have the ability to check on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022390428e42d184fdbbcd9aecab69f7f05\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports on the comparative cost-effectiveness of the New Zealand health system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b9e5bf940874e239486e5824fd894fe\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report from the widely respected Commonwealth Fund that shows that New Zealand spends less per capita on health than Australia, the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, and Germany. Despite that, New Zealand\u2019s health system is ranked second for overall quality amongst those six nations. We have one of the world\u2019s most cost-effective health systems, but this Government believes that we can make further progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ce8d2ea53d4aba97decdf88bcabd3a\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the ministry auditing the overall effect of the primary health organisations on the primary-care budget\u2014their cost structures, salary scales, or methods of accounting for taxpayers\u2019 funds\u2014if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b5fd428f5ee4da2833eb5b5fe4289d9\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, a review of the system is under way and I believe that a new system will be in place next year, in 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f46b103a41144499ac84fe202a10819\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister be satisfied that taxpayers are getting value for the extra money put into health, when the Auditor-General\u2019s report says that the Ministry of Health has no records of how district health boards specifically allocated the billions of dollars of extra funding, because the ministry says that was the responsibility of the district health boards, but when the Auditor-General asked the district health boards what the money was spent on, those boards admitted that they too were unable to say where the extra money was spent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb6e636012a4e778e30c6f95ecb7675\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Although the Auditor-General\u2019s report is detailed, it would not be the first time that we do not entirely agree with an Auditor-General\u2019s report. There are clear lines of accountability through both the district health boards and the Ministry of Health directly back to parliamentarians, through the select committee process. I welcome that member\u2019s question at the next review process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022344e18b6c6b84b719a395d1d6ae7cbb8\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any specific section in the Ministry of Health responsible for the reporting and collating of information on primary health organisations\u2019 expenditure, costs, annual reports, and plans; if so, what is it called?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd1cf98754c742669486cfdce411a332\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It is the clinical services directorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022621a4aa23fae49bfa4630f8a1bbbe616\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister and the Government assure the public that it is getting value for money in health, when if the Minister does not know where the extra money went, he cannot tell us what he got for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272681d3129e54602ac17a8586757be0c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I feel very confident that we have a very efficient health system. The National Party has yet to develop a policy\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225defabb14af846c395756f7753c939f1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members will be leaving this Chamber unless they keep interjections at a reasonable level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2920fcab8b048f098be5ec58b394e2a\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: If we would like to use as a benchmark\u2014as the National Party likes to do\u2014the USA, we would note that its health system costs three times that of New Zealand per person, yet Americans die at a younger age than New Zealanders. That would indicate that we have a more efficient and more effective system delivering services for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022932483d92f8b4f40af00e5acad01f5db\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Associate Minister read the Auditor-General\u2019s report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc516f4f4d240559855c6f09e336d21\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I have not read the Auditor-General\u2019s report. I am advised that it is a very detailed report, and I understand that Ministry of Health officials will be looking very carefully at its recommendations\u2014even though we may not end up agreeing with each and every one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f50b7a6c79b47dca3db753af4bb164d\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister expect his answers to be taken seriously, when he is replying to questions on a report that he has not even bothered to read though it is fundamental to his portfolio responsibilities; if he had read the report, would the Minister not know that the Auditor-General has, yet again, exposed this Government\u2019s poor stewardship of health dollars, whereby the Minister is unable to say where the extra money is specifically going and what he is specifically providing the public in return for that money\u2014and does that not explain why, after 6 years of a Labour Government, we can have $4 billion extra spent in health with fewer people getting operations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de5a302c911489ca53144a6c85e0c00\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That is complete hogwash. More people are getting operations since\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e64bfafef2a2413a8c33a4b60965910b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister will please be seated. I cannot hear the Minister\u2019s answer. I will be asking those members whose voices I can hear to leave the Chamber next time. They happen, unfortunately, to be sitting in the back row, and they know whom I am talking to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac06cf435fd48cea5073f9fab227c11\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That is hogwash. More people are getting operations since this Government came into power. We have committed an additional $4 billion to the health system of this country. Each and every New Zealander knows that he or she is getting a better deal and is getting services when he or she needs them, for the most part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d62482c2ee843b8a441ec10ea3875ed\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Mutunga Settlement\u2014Calculation of Quantum\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221daa3543ddc94875850b5420a17aa220\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: How does the Crown intend to ensure that the method of calculating the quantum of the settlement for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga will be fair in reality as well as fair in the circumstances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa94351d83994999966767fa79993ed3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa94351d83994999966767fa79993ed3\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Acting Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)\u003C/span\u003E: The Crown\u2019s view is that the comprehensive redress package offered to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, and accepted by them, is fair in the circumstances. The reality is that the Crown and Ng\u0101ti Mutunga acknowledge that the Crown could not afford to pay full compensation for the breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d568b3e996b84574be63b15698c33263\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation can the Minister provide for the Crown being unable to adequately explain the methodology for how it determined the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga settlement, and does he agree with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga that the Crown needs to demonstrate more transparency if the settlement process is to have any credibility or long-term durability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91d0eddcf80468a87a8b67ef98acb94\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: During the hearing of submissions in Taranaki the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga negotiators did express some concern about the process and a lack of understanding over the formula to determine the quantum. However, they were also very, very forthcoming in saying that the priority for them was in the outcome of the negotiations, because they wanted to put the grievances of the past behind them and start building a future for future generations of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fee5960fcd0d455094461362b91af6ba\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Yesterday during the Finance and Expenditure Committee proceedings, the Minister of Finance confirmed that the $1 billion fiscal cap imposed by National in 1995 for Treaty settlements will be exceeded; why is this the case, and how will it be funded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071a12830f994fe6b1f1a704ae652a2a\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer that question in full, but who better to make that statement than the Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fb3134ab2544b68a7a4a1c7d2f74a8\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga settlement consistent and relative to the other recent settlements, particularly given the massive breaches suffered by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, including the entire confiscation of their tribal estate and the imprisonment of their people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022220dddb61bf141a985243e4e5d9c3c8e\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The quantum settlement for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga was consistent with previous settlements\u2014that of Tainui, Ng\u0101i Tahu, and other groups that have already settled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225638667d6ce8402aa3e5256b6ab7e466\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. What the Minister gave as an answer was basically part of my question. I asked how the settlement was consistent with those other settlements, and I did not actually hear an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e39429d7afd748fdb33105abaece784f\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The quantum agreed on was relative to previous settlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022760e8ff0ae7f4dc78794bd518af939ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the notion of a fiscal cap of $1 billion was actually abandoned well before the Labour-led Government came into office\u2014under the National - New Zealand First coalition, from memory?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4de879fd06143c9a3a25b8ad0b7072a\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: I can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022866209dacd7844c88d0c4d075efcccaa\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Was the predetermined settlement figure to be offered by the Crown to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga altered in any way after the Crown accepted that the total land confiscated from Ng\u0101ti Mutunga was actually 150,000 acres and not 75,000 acres; if so, by what amount; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222c30ce4b33f46cd89eb0ca4cf2434b7\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The Government had no predetermined quantum figure for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. Those negotiations started in 1999 under a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d22e15b516a4bde93393fe367991062\u0022\u003EImmigration Service\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe063017dfad4e3a90ca9229d9c492da\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does he have confidence in the New Zealand Immigration Service; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1d8cba55a5548a792ab062fa25c56ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1d8cba55a5548a792ab062fa25c56ba\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because it is a hard-working and conscientious department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7992e7b92ca41348e7cef9a53f5b50f\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Precisely what is being investigated in his department, when on 10 August this year the deputy secretary of the legal and international services division of the Department of Labour wrote: \u201CI have begun an investigation into the circumstances in which the 91 business applications were approved. I have asked an independent lawyer from a private sector law firm to manage that investigation.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022053cd609e6334b2a86bfe3c91451ead7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wishes to have a precise answer to a precise matter of correspondence, it would be as well for him to put it in the primary question. I shall endeavour to check and get back to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f8b0fa5aa9b483e99ceb85b8909e5cc\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that 64 investor and long-term business visa applications, tabulated in a letter of 5 September 2006 under the signature of Stephen Dunstan for the Secretary of Labour, and copied to the Serious Fraud Office, were decided either on the same day they were received in 2002 or on the day following; if that is correct, were proper procedures followed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cdbb0d9831540e9a3053d69b6432aa3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to my previous answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c487ede3cdc411da3a698b6f1244114\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that 24 of those 64 investor and long-term business visa applications decided in 2002 within 32 hours of receipt were from China; if so, how would it be possible for all document verification to be completed within 32 hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228891017d9e82408d8ccb2b66b2ba109e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Notwithstanding the fact that it is my pleasure to lead a very hard-working and conscientious department, I refer the member to my previous answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d676ff06cefb4fe39a0779f75490e8ee\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will the inquiry, initiated during this Minister\u2019s term, cover the allegation that a former general manager of the New Zealand Immigration Service, Mr Andrew Lockhart, removed two internal auditors who were auditing the records of the business migration branch because they were investigating documents concerning the former general manager\u2019s wife, who was employed by the department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8747437f1f14bc09acebea235c84726\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to my earlier answer, and I would say that we take a case by case approach to cases, as he does to sheep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09a365a79d54ba1b7480c41e8392d61\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bit at the end was not necessary. Would the Minister withdraw that last comment; it was totally irrelevant to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd76cfcd78f84f2897490b4df8b29419\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022363b49b00591476187bc6f3e4a1a2211\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a70d874eb564018907aad240cb931c8\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that two former Ministers of Immigration, Lianne Dalziel and Paul Swain, refused to investigate these matters; if so, what does the record show were their reasons for refusing to investigate such serious allegations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247b7518d29ed4173afd1fd4ffe1e1a79\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member again to my previous answer, and repeat that there are a range of mechanisms by which detailed answers to such written material may be elucidated. Written and Official Information Act requests are also often used in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022af436acdd566470fb5b6a7c3d57a13ea\u0022\u003EClimate Change Conference\u2014Kyoto Protocol\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c60682e802f54f99b0bba831bac2b8d9\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: When he attends the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Nairobi next week, what proposals will he put forward or support to encourage developing countries to accept obligations in the second commitment period under the Kyoto Protocol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e893513b91ef4d128fa42c9b2e19e859\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e893513b91ef4d128fa42c9b2e19e859\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Climate change is a global problem that will have serious impacts on all countries. New Zealand supports broad and balanced participation in global efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Everyone should play their part. The Nairobi conference is an early stage of global discussions on future commitments beyond 2012 to address climate change. New Zealand will support measures that advance meaningful progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6d2a7509f54888b911009b2bbd2e87\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: When he says \u201Cbroad and balanced\u201D, does he agree with the principle that all people have an equal right to emit carbon into the atmosphere, and an equal responsibility to limit those emissions, a principle first put forward 10 years ago in the early Kyoto negotiations under the rather cumbersome title of \u201CContraction and Convergence\u201D; if so, how will he be advocating that position at Nairobi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e720f2dfa0649ffaa4637e70206cd57\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree it would be unrealistic to expect developing countries with very low levels of emission to curb their emissions to far lower levels than industrialised countries, whilst expecting no greater efforts on the part of industrialised countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baf3454e4cc9430bb14aeae63a58e9df\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister\u2019s intended focus at bilateral meetings with Ministers of other countries at the Nairobi conference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201afe0ce987c4c029e32649b3f54b8ec\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is taking a lead in world-class research into reducing on-farm emissions from agriculture. My bilaterals with other countries will focus on improving international collaboration on this research, both because it is central to New Zealand\u2019s interest, and because in helping ourselves we can also help the world beat climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e442c3d19b04bc9b2f9ecdb432e7331\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile the statement by the Prime Minister that it made sense to have a more bipartisan approach on the important issue of climate change, when at the four international climate change conferences in the 1990s, National invited and included Opposition representatives in the New Zealand delegations, and in 2001 and 2003 previous Labour climate change Ministers invited an Opposition representative, but in the latest conference in Nairobi he has chosen not to include any Opposition member; why there has been the change in approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be2ffb3a5c934f699c094707a6184757\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It would be rather strange to expect us to invite a member to a conference on Kyoto who opposes it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222eae008556f42c4b54c3f247d1677cc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the letters from previous Labour climate change Ministers in both 2001 and 2003 when National\u2019s position on climate change was no different, and also to note that this is the framework convention on climate change, which was initiated and signed by National when in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocuments not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b81850d41e064acf8b7a9102f7d828b6\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that if New Zealand were to get even halfway to the Prime Minister\u2019s goal of becoming carbon neutral, we would be in a very strong position to advocate for equal rights and obligations on a per capita basis, and that this would make it more likely that developing countries would take on climate change obligations too; and as well it would give us some credits to sell?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c330b3c3dcab412a9bdfc58c8f206531\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure I would want to either agree or disagree with that proposition, on the hoof. I would say that in addition to the environmental benefits of reducing greenhouse gas emissions and how that might also encourage developing countries to embrace some form of mitigation of their emissions, it would also be in New Zealand\u2019s economic interests, because I am being told by New Zealand\u2019s largest energy users that are multinationals, that their shareholders are telling them they should moderate their direct carbon emissions and their indirect energy-related emissions, because they see a future global cost to greenhouse gas emissions and think it is therefore in their shareholders\u2019 interests to reduce emissions. I suggest that if that is correct for those companies, it is also true for our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af2a6a71d3c424583d0a6142482cc6e\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Will New Zealand be arguing at Nairobi for international bunker fuel, which is used by aircraft and ships and is a substantial emitter of carbon, to be included in nations\u2019 Kyoto commitments to close this huge loophole, and also to avoid distorting the economics of local versus international trade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e23e47e621b4fd088931711cefd2ff2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think we are taking a specific position on that. I would say that it is less important than the wider issue. For example, the \u201Cfood miles\u201D debate that was run against New Zealand, and is indeed being run against New Zealand in Europe at the moment, suggests that those countries ought not to buy our products because of the miles they travel to get there, whereas in reality the emissions embedded in those products, even when delivered that long distance, are significantly lower than are embedded in their own local produce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5baee9310294f1699b364aff087e452\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2014Text Speak\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a8ec276d9e44c9807dbd1fe41b18f5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with New Zealand Qualifications Authority deputy chief executive Bali Haque that credit should be given to an answer in text speak if it \u201Cclearly shows the required understanding\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002240467f36cc624045826a617d466fcbfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240467f36cc624045826a617d466fcbfc\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with Bali Haque\u2019s explanation, as given on Radio New Zealand this morning. There has been no change in the approach to the use of abbreviations. Students are actively discouraged from using abbreviations in exam answers. Where students do use abbreviations, then the examiners look for students to demonstrate their understanding of a question\u2014i.e., if students can show an understanding and express this clearly, then they will get credit, if appropriate. If the examiner cannot understand what a student has written, or it is inappropriate use, the student will not get credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc539e30f9fc46478a18c1f721e0c01b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does that mean that text language will be allowed or not allowed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b30b7cca8eee41a5b566456b185d7e80\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: What it means is that abbreviations are usually allowed in examinations, if they are appropriate, but text language would, of course, be inappropriate. Therefore, it would be of no use to the student. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220760dd19d7b6427b8498ed64a7c55ae1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister launched the new draft curriculum on 31 July does he recall saying: \u201CThere is a continued emphasis on excellence in literacy and numeracy.\u201D and \u201COur education system must ensure that all students reach very high standards.\u201D; and does he believe that his statement\u2014that text language will be allowed\u2014is consistent with those standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb72a61a889346a8aafbab276c6aecfe\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I recall making the statement about standards, and I understand that everybody in this House who has sat an exam will have used an abbreviation at some time when sitting those examinations. To use text language would clearly be inappropriate for a student during the course of an examination, but on this side of the House I think we would have used abbreviations such as i.e. and e.g., perhaps. Young students today may find that something that was in such popular use might be appropriate to use in an exam, but to use it throughout the exam, of course, would be inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab3ff48f9064fe196fb32823490a2e6\u0022\u003EAnn Hartley\u003C/span\u003E: Is there an example of a statement from a person with a high level of qualifications that contains incorrect spelling but demonstrates that the person understands what he or she is talking about, and for which credit should be given?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7cee5c523a48b7802d0c61a64dc173\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The following statement is just one example: \u201CThis kind of pigeon English is fine for young people organising their social lives, \u2026\u201D. This is an example of a press statement put out today by Mr Bill English. The statement is understandable, despite \u201Cpidgin\u201D being spelt \u201Cp-i-g-e-o-n\u201D, as in a bird from the dove family, rather than \u201Cp-i-d-g-i-n\u201D, as in simplified language used between persons of a different nationality. But we will give him credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddb323020ae34aab80d4fff488081f44\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that such use of language in an exam should not get credit, nor should ridiculous abbreviations of text language; and why does he not just stop trying to be cool, and tell students that text language in exams is unacceptable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4c41df89ee47dfbd5bf179c91902a3\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I will explain to the member again that he would use in an exam, I am sure, abbreviations such as etc., e.g., and i.e. If a young person is explaining something to an examiner and using an abbreviation that communicates it well, then that may well be appropriate. But text speak, clearly, would be inappropriate, and that is why it is discouraged. As for the question of \u201Ccool\u201D, I am not sure whether that member would know it if he saw it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa335ec98e0400eaef28fc87a47b543\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the Minister has introduced a distinction between text abbreviations and text language, can he explain to the students of New Zealand just which versions of text language will be acceptable, and which ones will be regarded as wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218c60bde88314255ab53084253336add\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I will abbreviate my initial answer, because I had it in there for the member. There have been no changes to the approaches taken to abbreviations. Students using abbreviations have been trying to explain to an examiner what they are saying about a question. If they can show an understanding of it and can express the answer clearly, and if the use of language is appropriate, they will get credit. If the examiner cannot understand the answer, or if it is not appropriate, they will not get credit. That has always been the position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239b11aaa6f034dc99530ba5f288d52c5\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Now that students have the impression that text language will be acceptable, because that is what the New Zealand Qualifications Authority has stated, how are students supposed to know what is \u201Cappropriate\u201D, as the Minister has described it, and what is inappropriate\u2014why does he not just clear up all that confusion by telling New Zealand students that using text language is unacceptable in National Certificate of Educational Achievement exams?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022246ce3ef933446dfaafdaee52afcfd7e\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the students of the country, I say to the member that students are used to sitting examinations through internal assessment all year, and the rules are just the same. Abbreviations, where appropriate, have always been accepted\u2014even when the member sat whatever exam he sat at university. I seek leave to table from the web the definitions of \u201Cpigeon\u201D as a bird and \u201Cpidgin\u201D as not a technical use of English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd391616d9ac4c289a1d4d91fe360b35\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203b5a9451ce94e21a807f553cd9eb826\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000208\u0022\u003EQuestion, by leave, postponed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a43e3a7c873940d2adfbe3e78ca663bb\u0022\u003ETrade and Enterprise\u2014Operation of Programmes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d68f6eba1e54d56bc13acd019698f42\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: Is he satisfied with the operations of all the New Zealand Trade and Enterprise programmes covered by the evaluations released over the last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022770957b8dcc942d4b5f9fa68e9d0f5e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022770957b8dcc942d4b5f9fa68e9d0f5e8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d577e67d1b4266b44094e2c4f9c7ef\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Is a further, in-depth review necessary of the Escalator programme, which has failed to meet its capital-raising targets, has received 85 percent negative feedback in a survey or participants, and has been described by participants as a gravy train for brokers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baabc3c12c7146028325229e5ff6557e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think some of the messages out of that evaluation are getting through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264bf85db1ddd417bb360c66be3f888fc\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied with the Beachheads programme, 4 years after its inception, when a review just completed showed that it had little impact on participating firms\u2019 performance, and had incomplete policy objectives, and that the Ministry of Economic Development conducted little oversight of the programme\u2019s development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ade9e6b5b4384f069ab7227a7657b497\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is too early to tell whether Beachheads will work really well. The feedback I have had from a number of individual firms is very positive, although it is fair to say that some of the people who are working in this policy area have been diverted to work through large Official Information Act requests and an extraordinary number of questions from that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222785210971cb4d44b9b4d49e0d8e13b3\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied with the Sector Projects programme, when the review found that there was not sufficient information available to determine whether the programme met its policy outcomes, and that the efficiency of the programme could not be measured because New Zealand Trade and Enterprise did not record staff time spent on projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be755a0764c4576a8c497292271f034\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think the honest answer to that one is that I do not know, because we do not have the information yet. I think the evaluation was done too early, and the information was incomplete, as the member has pointed out. Is it not wonderful to have a Government that is very clear and has done a whole range of evaluations? Most of those are positive, but, of course, there are one or two organisations that are not doing as well as they could. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7e77b774f604d7aae931ebb66993cae\u0022\u003EMark Blumsky\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that, more than 3 years after the establishment of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, the September 2006 overview report by the Ministry of Economic Development states that there is no mechanism currently in place to measure explicitly and routinely the success of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise programmes against intended policy outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224e95e6aa1c24267b2ca9c3b77aaa2b2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228958cd3d36cf4d91a966800a2c2357aa\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d7b5a968d014e1db16f21d22e6ebada\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002256fcf226a58c41da91a5dc4c1de69fd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256fcf226a58c41da91a5dc4c1de69fd6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2) be now read a first time. At the conclusion of the first reading debate I will move that the bill be referred to the Regulations Review Committee with an instruction that the bill be finally reported back by 4 December 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EThis is a routine annual bill to confirm and validate items of subordinate legislation that, in accordance with the confirmation and validation provisions in the Acts under which the various instruments are made, lapse at stated times unless earlier confirmed or validated by Acts of Parliament. This year the bill provides for Parliament to validate and confirm 18 Orders in Council made under eight Acts. To avoid the subordinate legislation lapsing, this bill must be enacted before the end of 2006. The 4 December report-back date will allow time for the select committee to receive explanations on the contents of the bill from the departments that administer the various orders and regulations. I am sure that, under Dr Worth\u2019s excellent guidance, the committee will deal expeditiously with the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ETwo of the 18 orders apply movements in the consumer price index to the rates of social security benefits, New Zealand superannuation, and war pensions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFive orders are named under the Customs and Excise Act 1996. Three apply movements in the consumer price index to rates of excise and excise-equivalent duties on alcohol, tobacco products, and motor spirits. Two continue for a further 3 years the import and export prohibitions on toothfish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ETwo of the orders are made under the Tariff Act 1988. They introduce a new tariff concession, and implement commitments on tariff reduction and removal in relation to the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement amongst Brunei Darussalam, Chile, Singapore, and New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESix of the orders deal with commodity levies. Two replace similar orders relating to nashi Asian pears, whose order expired in July 2005, and asparagus, whose order expired in May 2006. Two relating to maize and arable crops replace one similar order that expired in July 2006, and one imposes a new levy in relation to navel oranges. These orders were voted on by the respective industry participants themselves. Each is payable to the industry organisation in order to finance activities of benefit to the industry. The sixth order concerning commodity levies extends for 5 years the existing order relating to Nelson-Marlborough dredge oysters that was due to expire in 2007. It was made at the request of the company to which the levy is payable, and it finances the enhancement and management of the relevant fishery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ETwo of the orders impose biosecurity levies. One is to fund the increased cost of the primary risk assessment of imported goods by electronic screening. The other order replaces some costs prescribed under previous biosecurity regulations, and funds increased monitoring and verification activities required in relation to sea containers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EFinally, one order increases certain rates of road-user charges under the Road User Charges Act 1977. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd940808a3e34496b5c8fb2ea0f3dba6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd940808a3e34496b5c8fb2ea0f3dba6\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am grateful for the encomium offered by the previous speaker. I assure him that when this bill\u2014if it passes this stage\u2014is referred to the Regulations Review Committee, the committee will exercise diligence in meeting the report-back date and looking appropriately at these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker said, this is an annual bill that confirms and validates subordinate legislation; subordinate legislation being orders and regulations made under certain Acts that provide that such subordinate legislation will lapse after a certain time unless it is confirmed or validated by Act of Parliament. In this case we are talking about orders made under eight statutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EJust to give an example of the process, if we look at one of the statutes, the Biosecurity Act 1993, we see in section 137 provision for levies to be made from time to time by Order in Council for the purposes of wholly or partially funding a service provided or function performed by a department for the purposes of the Act. In section 138, \u201COrders to be confirmed\u201D, some time frames are established that state that unless an order is confirmed, it is deemed to have been revoked by a particular period. So really the task of the committee to which this legislation is referred is to look at those orders and see whether there is appropriate justification for them to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI think we all know that in the world of regulations and deemed regulations, there are large numbers of regulations and orders that probably are not required. It is a reality that, just as the statute book each year grows longer and longer, so it is with delegated legislation. It is interesting to reflect that in 1988 the Regulations Review Committee, which was then chaired by Sir Douglas Graham, conducted an inquiry into all the regulations that were in force as at 14 November 1988. The committee collected all of those regulations together, and wrote to the various Government departments and administering bodies with a series of questions along the lines of which regulations were still required, why\u2014in a brief statement\u2014they were required, how often they had been used over each of the past 3 years, and which ones could be revoked. And\u2014I think to the surprise of the select committee and possibly the public who might have read the report that followed\u2014they found that over 400 regulations could be revoked immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f225715127f34dd1a34fda8a8fe6b3be\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Just like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296965e29118d4f758aefcff84a378b96\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: Just like that. And that constituted 10 percent of the total of the regulations in force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1451a2e79e84809aab6ba148a1e2eba\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: But none of these ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296e728fe9f994d549d5e6efa57db746c\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we do not know, I say to Dr Cullen, whether they looked at those particular regulations. So the select committee recommended that those regulations be revoked immediately, and they were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ETo come back, though, to this bill and the confirmation and validation provisions, I note that we have orders made under the Biosecurity Act, the Commodity Levies Act, the Customs and Excise Act, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Act, the Social Security Act, the Road User Charges Act, the Tariff Act, and the War Pensions Act. There is just one subtlety in the legislation and that is the issue of confirmation on the one hand and confirmation and validation on the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe bill, of course, is an opportunity for Parliament to decide whether in each case the effect of the relevant sunset clauses should be avoided and the subordinate legislation continue in force. That is effected by confirmation, when the House considers that the policy that lies behind the relevant regulation continues to justify it. It is right to say that amongst the areas of lawmaking where Parliament has decided it does not wish to give the executive carte blanche in the making of regulations, but wishes to reserve to itself this extra control, such expiry provisions are appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EMost subordinate legislation referred to in this bill is confirmed, but the orders made under the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act, the Social Security Act, the Tariff Act, and the War Pensions Act are both validated and confirmed, because the Acts under which they are made provide that they expire at a stated time unless earlier validated and confirmed. The validation, as a matter of constitutional law, is limited, as its purpose is only to prevent the expiry of those orders, and the validations that are effected do not also cure any invalidity. Finally, I say that the bill also provides that the resulting Act will bind the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EI have made comment as to the number of regulations that are probably not required, and there is particular work going on at the moment in that area. In part, this work is led by the Government in\u2014I believe\u2014a somewhat clumsy approach reported to the Cabinet policy committee as a document entitled Quality Regulation Review\u2014First Milestone Report. But the Regulations Review Committee is itself carrying out a detailed inquiry that will look at this issue. The inquiry will also look at mechanisms to provide ongoing and systematic review of regulations, and at an issue that I think is increasingly important, which is the provisions in the Cabinet Step by Step Guide requiring regulatory impact statements. If one looks at those particular provisions, one can see that they are so shrouded with exceptions that regulatory impact statements are often not forthcoming\u2014or, if they are forthcoming, they are not sufficiently enlightening. Although the Regulations Review Committee\u2019s jurisdiction is restricted to delegated legislation, it is in that area of delegated legislation that significant compliance cost is imposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ENational supports this bill and its passage to the relevant select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e34b51b7208c4325b958eab0e1f4a143\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e34b51b7208c4325b958eab0e1f4a143\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2). As so eloquently described by Dr Worth\u2014and Dr Cullen, of course\u2014this bill covers a lot of areas where legislation needs to be passed from time to time in order for some regulations to continue to exist. I have to say that I used to be a great fan of sunset clauses in legislation, but when one is confronted with legislation such as this, and one thinks that sunset clauses could bring legislation such as this to Parliament every week of every month of every year, it sort of puts one off a little bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EIn this regard, because I am a generalist by nature and not a detail person, and because I tend to be somewhat dismissive of people who go through the fine print, I must give credit to the Regulations Review Committee. Its members go through this stuff, they are the ones that make sure there are no problems in it, and they are the ones who sign it off. I take this opportunity while there are not too many people in the House to thank the members of the select committee, because they fulfil a very necessary job in this Parliament. It is not something that a generalist by nature should be involved in; it is more the sort of thing that a person with some legal training should be involved in. So Mr Worth, who is a sterling member of that select committee, is just the right sort of person to go through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EThis bill covers a lot of things. New Zealand First is in favour of it, and we look forward to its passage through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022131f0ac59f014e4ea6d155fc59ad020d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022131f0ac59f014e4ea6d155fc59ad020d\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. As we do when we are in Parliament, I try to get to grips with the bills that we consider. For this one, I started with the term \u201Csubordinate\u201D. It is an interesting word. It can mean to \u201Cbelong to a lower or inferior class or rank\u201D, and to be \u201Csubject to the authority or control of another\u201D. The M\u0101ori Party, a party that\u2014I think\u2014prides itself on its commitment to upholding due access to justice and to defending and protecting human rights, is immediately interested in any legislation which unashamedly sets out to create hierarchies of power and control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E Here we turn to this bill to confirm and validate the deliberate minimising of power and control as it relates to biosecurity, to road-user charges, to tariffs, and to nashi\u2014Asian pears. What do we do with a long list of regulatory changes, literally apples and oranges, oysters and alcohol, all blended in with the odd lump-sum payment here and there? The suite of subordinate legislation proposals raises the fundamental question about the rapid path of regulation that this Government is following\u2014government by regulation. The major concern we see with this bill is the reality of so much regulation that escapes the scrutiny of Parliament. The detail and the scope of the significant regulatory proposals identified in this bill warn us as to the obvious likelihood that similar proposals may sit within the Regulations Review Committee and never make it here, to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs to the points of detail in this bill, the M\u0101ori Party has considered four significant issues that prevent us from supporting the package in its entirety. The excise and excise-equivalent duties clash front on with our intentions as a party to introduce a member\u2019s bill to make the production, manufacture, and sale of tobacco products illegal. The M\u0101ori Party was really heartened by the TV3 poll in April this year, which reported that 52 percent of New Zealanders are also in favour of getting tobacco out of Aotearoa. Our aim is to eliminate tobacco from Aotearoa by 10 December 2010, 6 years after bars and restaurants went smoke-free. With this aim in mind we therefore strongly oppose the amendment in the bill relating to the indexation of tobacco products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe second area is the Social Security (Rates of Benefits and Allowances) Order. The Government needs to read its own reports. If it did, priority would be placed on immediate action to address the increase that has been identified in the proportion of the population experiencing severe hardship. Page after page of the Government\u2019s Social Report 2006, released in August, revealed that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. The 2006 report described the proportion of the population with low incomes as substantially higher in 2004 than in 1998. Nineteen percent of that population is now living below the 60 percent poverty threshold, compared with 12 percent in 1998. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn light of this the M\u0101ori Party recommends that the rates of benefits and allowances order needs amendment, rather than validation and confirmation of what we consider to be basically invalid payments in the greater scheme of wh\u0101nau well-being. What is the point of a fat budget surplus of $11.5 billion if it is not being gainfully applied to support the most vulnerable members of our society? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe third area of concern is in relation to the contentious issues around tariff. When we think about tariff, we think it could be useful to apply some analysis against the genuine progress index. If one measures any progress against a full range of social, economic, ecological, and environmental indicators, we are likely to achieve a more comprehensive and accurate assessment than current measures based on GDP. Under such an analysis the M\u0101ori Party will support fair trade agreements rather than agreements that position Aotearoa as a market for cheap goods made by companies that exploit workers, the environment, and indigenous lands and people. If the recent fascination by both Labour and National with climate change is anything to go by, one would think they would be open to possibilities of doing things differently. We cannot address climate change if the rampant consumerism and consumption that is part and parcel of tariff reductions is not addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe fourth significant area of concern relates to the War Pensions (Rates of Pensions, Lump Sum Payments, and Allowances) Order. The M\u0101ori Party has consistently been raising issues in this House about the legitimate and longstanding grievances of Viet Nam veterans. We have risen in this House to alert our colleagues to the need to support Viet Nam veterans who were exposed to dangerous levels of dioxin-contaminated Agent Orange; the need to respond to the call for those veterans to receive the full medical treatment and monitoring they deserve; the right for the families of those affected by Agent Orange to access free and suitable health-care for their children and grandchildren for at least seven generations; the differences in pension payments and compensation under the War Pensions Act and the Accident Compensation Corporation clearly disadvantage former servicemen; and, indeed, the call for justice for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBruce Isbister, in his work on the tortuous processes of Veterans Affairs New Zealand, summed it all up when he described the case of veterans in the following way: \u201CTheir earning capacity has been taken from them by their service to country, consigned to an income akin to poverty line and exacerbated by blatant discrimination. Many veteran pensioners have to sell family assets to stay afloat, causing huge disruption to themselves and their families.\u201D Sixty percent of Viet Nam veterans are M\u0101ori, yet to add insult to injury, in spite of the disadvantages of and obstacles to their rehabilitation that I have just referred to, the simple wish that M\u0101ori veterans raised to hold a hui on marae was rejected outright by the independent joint working party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere is no excuse for the rights of Viet Nam veterans not to be heard. We know now, tragically, that Agent Orange contains dioxin, which has been found to have serious health side-effects including cancers and birth defects. Just 2 days ago the Government admitted that in-the-field support for children of Viet Nam veterans is inadequate. The Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs, Mr Rick Barker, declared in this House that veterans and their families do not have the extent of field support that they should, and the Government wants to address that. Well, here is the perfect opportunity to do just that, and the Government is choosing not to do so. The War Pensions (Rates of Pensions, Lump Sum Payments, and Allowances) Order could have been amended to assess the discriminatory impact of the differences in pension payments and compensation available for injured soldiers under the War Pensions Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are some positive passages in this bill. The M\u0101ori Party supports the recommendation to confirm the Road User Charges (Rates) Order as we support the concept behind road-use charges, and would further recommend that they be spent on transport issues, rather than going into the consolidated account. We are also very supportive of the changes made to confirm the Biosecurity (Risk Screening Levy) Order and the Biosecurity (Shipping Container Levy) Order. But those positive initiatives are overshadowed by the substantive concerns we have with the four areas I described previously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, it would appear that the concept of subordinate as meaning a lower or inferior class or rank has been applied in this bill, to the detriment of our Viet Nam veterans and to our most impoverished children and families. We envisage a pool of cheap overseas labour, subject to the authority or control of the Labour Government, let in through the new tariff laws, and we witness more moves to let the health of New Zealanders just go up in smoke. As a result of such significant misgivings, the M\u0101ori Party will not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c02a1e8cd5284887af970b7b451e1d24\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation Bill (No 2) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Party 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u002200238a69f25e4e968c49140736def9a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200238a69f25e4e968c49140736def9a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 2) be referred to the Regulations Review Committee and that it be an instruction to the committee that it finally report the bill back by 4 December 2006.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d1bcf13ca1042239ef0aea7da218ffb\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3f6e29617f34d0c8f9fee0348be55a2\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u002241feaccb4bc743f39c7ea695917fb380\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241feaccb4bc743f39c7ea695917fb380\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: I move, That the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill be now read a second time. In doing so, I would like to say that this bill is an important milestone both for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga and for the Crown. The bill addresses the significant and longstanding grievances suffered by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga as a result of actions of the Crown. The bill enables both parties to move forward together in a positive Treaty relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI encourage each and every member of this House to read the preamble to the bill with care. The bill sets out a formal Crown apology to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga for the Crown\u2019s past dealings with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, which breached the Crown\u2019s obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi. The preamble records that the Crown profoundly regrets, and unreservedly apologises for, the confiscation of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga land. This confiscation was unconscionable. The preamble also records that the Crown profoundly regrets and unreservedly apologises for its unconscionable actions at Parihaka. I note that it was 125 years ago, on 5 November, that Crown troops occupied Parihaka and arrested its peaceful inhabitants. I would also reiterate the comments of my parliamentary colleague Mahara Okeroa in his first reading speech, when he stated that the Crown did not come alone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe deed of settlement and this bill will enable Ng\u0101ti Mutunga to build a stronger ongoing relationship with the Crown and will help to dispel the sense of grief and loss Ng\u0101ti Mutunga has suffered. In summary, as well as a formal apology to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, the settlement provides for financial redress of $14.9 million and cultural redress. That includes the vesting of 10 sites of cultural significance, totalling approximately 168 hectares, with relevant provisions to protect the natural values of the sites and public access where appropriate, and an acknowledgement by the Crown of the unique and enduring relationship that Ng\u0101ti Mutanga has with its land in its area of interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Affairs Committee has considered the bill and has submitted its commentary on it to the House. The committee has recommended that the bill be passed with minor amendments of an editorial and a technical nature. I note that the committee heard two submissions, both of which were in support of the bill. In its commentary on the bill, the committee highlighted two key concerns expressed by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s submissions to the committee. In terms of the fairness of the quantum, the committee noted the concerns expressed by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga about how the Crown valued Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s claim and how it arrived at a quantum figure. The committee said that it did not believe that the settlement was a fair assessment of the severity of the breach. First and foremost, I would like to acknowledge that it is not possible to fully compensate Ng\u0101ti Mutunga for all the losses and prejudice that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga has suffered. If claimant communities insisted on full compensation for what has been lost, there would be no settlements, and there would be no resolution to historical grievances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that the people of Taranaki and of New Zealand generally have benefited from the land and other resources confiscated and otherwise alienated from Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. However, what has been negotiated and agreed with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga is a figure that is based on the severity of the breaches suffered by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga and relativity with previous benchmarks for other similar claims. I respect the committee\u2019s view but do not agree with it. The Crown\u2019s redress package as a whole is an offer that is fair in the circumstances, and it has been developed and agreed with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. Ng\u0101ti Mutunga said in its submission to the committee that it is a pragmatic iwi and that settling this claim is another part of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga getting on with life so that the iwi can grow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EThe committee referred to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s concern about the costs it had incurred related to the disestablishment of the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Iwi Authority and the transfer of its assets to the newly established Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. The process of establishing and disestablishing private trusts is not an appropriate use of public legislation. Settlement legislation addresses matters necessary to achieve the settlement that cannot be achieved with certainty under non-legislative processes. The Crown\u2019s funding policy has recently been reviewed to include a sum for costs associated with governance, and Ng\u0101ti Mutunga has benefited from the review, receiving an additional $34,000. This Government will continue to take opportunities as appropriate to consider ways in which to make the settlement process and associated costs for claimants more efficient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I say settlement negotiations have occurred between Ng\u0101ti Mutunga and the Crown over a number of years in order to reach this important point. The Crown considers the settlement to be a fair and reasonable settlement in the circumstances. The people of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga have ratified it, with some 95 percent of them in favour of it. The public have now had the opportunity to make submissions on the bill through the select committee process. I encourage all members to support the passage of this bill through the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220ffc79092e4a4542ab79af5a41773b86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ffc79092e4a4542ab79af5a41773b86\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party will be supporting the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill, but I want to make a number of comments before we start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMight I first acknowledge the long struggle that the people of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga have had since the events of Parihaka the century before last. It seems strange to me to describe the time of that event as being in the century before last, because it happened only some 75 years before I was born. Sometimes I think we forget just how short our history in this country is. There is no doubt that many young New Zealanders now look upon the historic event of Parihaka with quite a degree of pride in the way in which the passive resistance was carried out, and with some shame at the way in which those people who were protesting their own rights were so forcibly ejected from their lands. It is relevant, in discussing this bill\u2019s ratification, that we remember those events, because the oral history of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga has conveyed the circumstances of those events to young people in the iwi today just as strongly as any of the whakapapa prior to that time has been conveyed to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI bring that up because the Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations said that today\u2019s claim has been ratified by 95 percent of those eligible to do so. That is not right. The reality is that some 1,300 people were able to vote for or against this claim, and only just over 600 chose to do so. It is true that of those 600-odd, 94 percent said yes, but we can argue that that does not necessarily constitute a majority of the iwi. This causes me concern, because a grievance quite rightly has been held by the iwi over these last 140-odd years\u2014130-odd years, I should say; I do not want to make myself sound too old\u2014and there is no doubt that from today the story will continue to be carried on in the generations ahead of us. It would be unfortunate if in a future time some of those young people were able to say: \u201CWell, my ancestors didn\u2019t vote for that, so how can I be included in this full and final settlement?\u201D. I want to make it clear and put it on the record that the National view is that this is problematic, but we accept that given the opportunity put before the people, it is reasonable to assume that those who did not choose to vote were, in fact, choosing for the settlement. In other words, their non-vote was an acceptance of the arrangement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe should also remember in that context that any treaty settlement is only as good as what can be offered at the time, and never really reflects the great losses that some of these iwi suffered. In the case of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, at least 75,000 undisputed acres were confiscated from them because they were considered to be in rebellion, when, as I said before, the history of Parihaka would show that that was hardly a reasonable conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill acknowledges a number of cultural sites for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. It requires that the Geographic Board consult with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga over names in that particular area, it sets aside some particular parts of the rohe for their exclusive use at various times, and it gives the opportunity for the iwi to pick up subsequent properties at an agreed valuation should they become surplus to Crown requirements. That is in addition to the $14 million of cash in compensation. National members say to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga that this settlement is a significant step forward. Its acceptance by the tribe is generous given the circumstances it was put through, and that at least has to be acknowledged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe issue of governance from this point on, which was raised by the Associate Minister, is an interesting one. We have received from Ng\u0101ti Mutunga a proposal that their transition from an iwi authority to a private trust be put into this legislation in order to facilitate it. We will consider that document over the coming weeks before we go into the Committee stage, but I make the point that under the current structure that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga has, there is no legislative impediment to their moving to the new structure. There are some legal requirements, and those requirements will have a cost, but, as the Minister said, much of that cost has been met by the extra grant that the Crown made to the iwi in the settlement process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI also ask why any organisation in this country that has been brought together to collectively advance the betterment of the people for whose benefit it exists would want to be bound by statute. Why does Ng\u0101ti Mutunga want to have the Parliament of New Zealand decide what its iwi structure and organisation should be? Surely that is a choice for the 2,000-odd members of this iwi. I ask the leaders of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga who have advanced this Supplementary Order Paper idea to give us an answer to that over the next few days. I do not think there is any advantage in their accepting from the Crown, after so many years, a cash settlement\u2014with all the other bits that go with it\u2014that will allow the iwi to be more self-determining and more able to do things for the people who have a claim upon that iwi, then binding themselves immediately into an organisational structure determined by this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAs members we regularly have before us private bills from other organisations throughout the country whose governance organisation is statutorily confirmed. As time moves on, that arrangement often does not fit, so those organisations come here to ask us to give them new legislation, free them from those shackles, and let them go on their way. By and large, that is what happens. So I think the leaders of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga need to think very, very carefully about whether they really want that proposal to be advanced, because there is much greater opportunity if the organisation, which in this case is Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, is freed from the clutches\u2014or the claws, if you like; the direct leash\u2014of this House, and that is also much more relevant to self-determination,.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENational looks forward to the Committee stage of this bill. There are a number of points that I am sure both sides of the House will wish to make as we progress towards a conclusion. This reading marks a further step on the way for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga in a process that started in 1996, and is now, after 10 years, looking as if it may soon reach some conclusion. I am pleased to state again that National will support this settlement bill\u2014albeit with our reservations about the mandating process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022 data-id=\u002248a9ffb972804bebb7337579aebe94c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248a9ffb972804bebb7337579aebe94c1\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I take this opportunity to take a call in this second reading of the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill, in support of that bill, and as the chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee this gives me the opportunity to raise some of the issues we were faced with in our deliberations on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EI thought three essential components were actually necessary to the bill reaching this point and, obviously, in talking about the bill\u2019s agreed settlement surrounding these historical claims. I define that in three categories. The first is in relation to the parties. There has to be some willingness in relation to negotiating within the spirit of cooperation, simply because in these historical grievances there is a lot of hurt involved, and there is a lot of resolution sought. On that basis, the spirit of cooperation becomes very important while negotiating in that frame of mind towards seeking a settlement resolve. I recall, of the two submitters in support of this bill, that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga made it very clear to the select committee that they were pragmatic in their thinking, and felt because of that that it was necessary to reach that point so that iwi could move on. Their having embraced that value and principle suggested to me, as chair of the committee, that there was a need on their part to, I suppose, step over some historical barriers, in order to achieve this settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I tell members that in relation to negotiation it is about two parties coming together\u2014the other party, obviously, being the Crown\u2014and about the Crown having to complement that attitude in some way, which can be difficult, given the circumstances. The Crown, in fulfilling its responsibilities, has had to ensure that it was gaining the trust and the confidence of the iwi group, so that they could manage this process to indeed arrive at a deed of settlement in the first instance, then arrive at this bill at this time. If we consider the history of the claim, we see that in the first instance it was submitted to the Waitangi Tribunal in 1990. From there the Crown picked up the claim, I think in 1996, and took it from that point on to reach a deed of settlement. In those negotiations, I think it is important to acknowledge the relationship that has been built between Ng\u0101ti Mutunga and the Crown over these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe second important component I have found, in relation to the settlement being a prosperous one, is the elements of the package. We heard from the Minister Mita Ririnui earlier about some of those, but I would like to try to identify a few more of them. The original deed of settlement included commercial and financial redress with an aggregate value of over $14 million, and that aggregate value included a cash settlement amount of over $14 million, of which $400,000 had already been paid to the iwi authority in advance to assist with negotiations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe components of the package include a right of first refusal, in favour of the trustees, to buy at market value certain surplus Crown-owned properties and the deeds of recognition in relation to 12 statutory areas. It includes a shellfish right of first refusal, under which the Crown must offer the trustees a certain percentage of quota, with specified shellfish and quota management, and the appointment of the trustees to act as an advisory committee to the Minister of Fisheries. I suppose that is for the Minister to give some recognition to, and permission for, the customary non-commercial interests of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. There is additional fisheries-related redress, including a prohibition on the taking of certain species for commercial purposes within the area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe package includes a commitment that at the request of the trustees, officials from the Ministry for the Environment will run a workshop on preparing an iwi management plan. There is an acknowledgement that the Minister in Charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, the Minister for the Environment, and the Minister of Local Government have written to the Taranaki Regional Council and the New Plymouth District Council, encouraging them to enter into a moratorium of understanding, or similar document, with the trustees in relation to interaction between the council and Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThere is also an acknowledgment that the Minister of Conservation has written to the Taranaki-Wanganui Conservation Board, encouraging the board to enter into a memorandum of understanding with the trustees; an acknowledgment that the Minister of Conservation has written to the Taranaki Fish and Game Council, encouraging the council to enter into a memorandum of understanding; and an acknowledgment by the Crown of the unique and enduring relationship that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga has with the land in its area of interest. So I do believe that, as a second part of this package, the elements of settlement are quite important in terms of firming up whether this settlement will be long-lasting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003EThe third part of it is quite important, as well. It is the recognition of the grievance and the historical problems through the apology from the Crown. I suppose, in some respects, an apology represents some spiritual moving on, as well. The Crown\u2019s acknowledgment of the grievances\u2014its apology\u2014is the sealing, I think, towards ensuring that the settlement is long-lasting. It allows Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, as it submitted to the select committee, to move on and get on with running the business of the iwi for the future. It gives me great delight to be part of the process, particularly in this process that gives recognition for this settlement. As I said earlier, I take the opportunity to take the stand in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc04c5baa37b404f8d3c2b5aaf001436\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc04c5baa37b404f8d3c2b5aaf001436\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Assistant Speaker. I am very pleased to take a call in the second reading of the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill. I have had the privilege of taking calls in the debates on a number of settlement bills in my 10 years in Parliament\u2014although it does seem that progress has slowed in the last 6 years. None the less, when the Labour Government finally gets settlement bills to this House, I am very pleased to take part in the debate. I just want to say \u201Ct\u0113n\u0101 koutou\u201D to those of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, and others who have an interest in their settlement, who are here in the gallery today; also to my colleagues on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, albeit we are from different parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EVery, very often in these matters we tend to demonstrate, whether or not we like to admit it, that M\u0101ori ties are longstanding, historical, and binding. They are enduring. All of us M\u0101ori MPs have ties that were in existence when we came into this Parliament, and they will remain and endure long after we leave. Actually, as soon as some of our P\u0101keh\u0101 colleagues understand that, we might make a lot of progress in this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EIn essence, even though on the face of it the bill is a simple one, in that it follows the format of previous legislation, and even though there is a big mamae, or hurt, in the hearts of the iwi to settle, there is also the wish on the part of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga to move forward. So, as I think I said in the first reading, the leaders of the iwi made the decision that it was time to move on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EIt is a privilege when one is in this place and has had the opportunity to move around New Zealand and participate in the hui of our people\u2014people of all description\u2014to see the impact a settlement has on tribes who have settled to date. For a lot of reasons, it is always great to see progress on settlement bills such as this one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI want to raise two matters in relation to the select committee process. The first is the definition of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. This issue of definition always comes up, and it will continue to come up because many M\u0101ori have reservations or anxieties\u2014I certainly do\u2014about who the settling iwi are as finally defined in a piece of legislation. The Office of Treaty Settlements, the Crown, requires that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga tikanga be overridden by a number of Acts, including the Adoption Act. In a sense, for many M\u0101ori, that is anathema. It is an absolute no-no. The reason is that inheritance in Te Ao M\u0101ori proceeds on the basis of genealogical ties\u2014blood ties\u2014and adoption, in the traditional way, very often does not include blood relationships. We have come to accept that this will become part of settlements, but it does not mean to say that we all like it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ESure, there is a point at which the Crown can say that these settlements were negotiated with iwi and that the iwi are happy, and the Crown is happy to a greater or lesser degree, but they are always pepper-potted with various provisions that essentially cut across tikanga\u2014in this case, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga tikanga. However, it is there. The wishes of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga are overridden by the fact that the definition of who they are includes children who are adopted getting the same rights as those who were born and bred Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. That is one point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe other point is the matter that my colleague Gerry Brownlee referred to, and about which National may propose a Supplementary Order Paper. The issue is one that revolves round the Crown\u2019s requirement, which is a reasonable one\u2014and I am not saying that this is just the Crown in its current form, because this was developed when National was in Government\u2014that claimant groups have an established governance entity to receive and manage their settlement assets and that this entity must be representative, accountable to the claimant community, and have transparent decision-making and dispute resolution processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E Some claimant groups, namely those who settled under the previous National Government and National - New Zealand First Government, have used private legislation to fulfil this requirement. But currently, it seems to be the policy of the Labour Government that they are not supportive of this and so the reality is that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga have to go through this pretty convoluted process of disestablishing their current tribal entity and going through the cost, time, and effort in the process that that entails. Really, their desired course was that private legislation would be available to them in the way that it was available to Tainui; Ng\u0101i Tahu, with their Te Runanga o Ngai Tahu Act; to Ng\u0101ti Awa, who also had Te Runanga o Ngati Awa Act, and one under the current Government in the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Act. They have been denied this; instead they were given a slightly increased sum to offset some of the costs of disestablishing their r\u016Bnanga, but ultimately it does seem they have been somewhat discriminated against by not being given the availability of private legislation, which invariably, on the face of it, makes the process a lot simpler. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI want to flag that, and Gerry Brownlee certainly flagged it. He did say, though, that he would like to know why Ng\u0101ti Mutunga are asking for a Supplementary Order Paper that accommodates their wish. Basically it boils down to a significant saving in cash in the transaction costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EIt is not about the establishment of an entity bound to Parliament; most definitely it is not that. I would not have a part of it if it were. I know that they are smart enough not to want that. So it is an issue about the significant transaction costs, acknowledging the contribution that Office of Treaty Settlements has made, and an ease of process that ultimately seems to be much more sensible than what they are being asked to do now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThis is a phase that gets us closer to the third reading of this bill. I hope it is the Government\u2019s intention to see that occur before the end of the year\u2014that would be great. It would add to the things that make a parliamentarian feel good when coming to the end of a parliamentary year. So I would like to feel good. National will certainly support the timely passage of the bill to its third reading. As I say, I hope it is the Government\u2019s intention to do that. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022636aacdc2d574cedb98b8e64d5af66d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022636aacdc2d574cedb98b8e64d5af66d1\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 koe Madam Speaker; t\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D t\u0101tou o te Whare nei. Engari i mua i te haere tonu o te w\u0101hanga i riro mai ki a au, e mihi tonu ki t\u0113n\u0101 o ng\u0101 hunga mai i Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, koutou i kawe mai i t\u0113nei kaupapa i mua i te aroaro o te Whare nei. N\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 hoki koutou o Ng\u0101ti Mutunga e noho tonu i te w\u0101 k\u0101inga, i whakarongo mai i \u0113nei o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i puta mai i roto o te Whare i te r\u0101 nei. N\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EMadam Assistant Speaker, by way of explanation, I acknowledge not only yourself and members of the House but also those of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga who are in the precincts of this Chamber and those who are at home listening to this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI stand on behalf of New Zealand First to say it is a pleasure to be able to participate in the second reading of the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill. The bill is a continuation of the whole settlement process involving Treaty of Waitangi claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EWhat is more pleasurable about this particular bill is that it will help to bring some closure to the events of the 19th century that saw the people of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, and, of course, other iwi of Taranaki, experience one of the darkest hours in the history of our country. In respect of this claim and other Taranaki claims, the Waitangi Tribunal commented that there may be no others where as many Treaty breaches had equivalent force and effect over a comparable time. I also reiterate what I said during the first reading of this bill, which was that any latter-day settlement will not change the events of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EHowever, what is expected of Treaty settlement legislation is that it will help to compensate claimants, such as Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, by providing some form of redress, both financial and, of course, cultural. I say that in the context of the view expressed by the Waitangi Tribunal that \u201CGenerous reparation policies are needed to remove the prejudice to Maori, to restore the honour of the Government, to ensure cultural survival, and to re-establish effective interaction between the Treaty partners.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EWe heard comments from the member from the National Party who alluded to the issue of the impact that the Adoption Act will have on the future identity of those who can claim, or will be able to claim, descent from Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. I need to support the comments that she made, because when we are talking about any particular M\u0101ori hap\u016B or iwi, we are actually talking about whakapapa\u2014genealogy\u2014and we are talking about blood genealogy. Unfortunately\u2014or fortunately, depending on people\u2019s viewpoint\u2014the Adoption Act does not necessarily provide for that, unless the adoptee is a member of the wider wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E The second reading of this bill progresses the claims made by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2014that is, the descendants of Mutunga\u2014and follows the consideration of submissions made to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. As a matter of history, the day that the committee met, 6 September this year, was 1 day after the 140th anniversary of the confiscation of the lands that have led us to the House today. With the exception of one submitter, whose opposition was to a clause that provides for the vesting of the fee simple estate in reserved land presently under its purview, all submitters were in support of the bill. The particular submitter that was opposed to part of the bill was the New Plymouth District Council, which was concerned that its proprietary interest would be a lesser interest than the interest it currently holds. The support for the bill was further evidenced by the iwi ballot to accept the negotiated settlement and the new body to accept the proceeds from the settlement. I say that, notwithstanding the comments made by the Opposition spokesperson on M\u0101ori affairs. I suggest we will never ever get it perfect in terms of having 100 percent support for any settlement that iwi representatives enter into on behalf of their iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EDuring the hearing of submissions on the bill, representatives from Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, although having completed a deed of settlement, entered into negotiations and accepted that the settlement was \u201Cfair in the circumstances\u201D, expressed some disquiet about elements of the final settlement. Not the least of that disquiet was about the formula used by the Crown negotiators to arrive at the quantum that was used to reach this settlement. They asserted that the total area of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s land that was originally confiscated actually amounted to 150,000 acres. That figure was confirmed on a digital calculation. However, for the purposes of this and other Taranaki claims, the Crown has used calculations drawn from the Sim Commission evidence and findings as a source of information in developing the quantum offer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAnother point of disquiet was the apparent reluctance to provide the claimants with the full formula used to arrive at the quantum for this claim. An earlier speaker alluded to that issue. We did, however, ascertain that the size or population of an iwi contributes to the overall quantum for each claim, notwithstanding the value or the size of the confiscation, or the breach of the Treaty, that affected that particular iwi. It was also suggested by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2014and I think this does have some credibility\u2014that had its negotiators, or tribal representatives, included people with a high profile, then perhaps the quantum would have been more favourable to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. I say that as someone who comes from an iwi group\u2014a hap\u016B, some might say\u2014that does not necessarily have people of the ilk that I described. Probably that will have some impact when we come to this House with our settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding all of that, Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Mutunga did stress that the settlement quantum was fair in the circumstances, or in context, but that it did not regard it as fair in reality. Its desire to accept this settlement for the sake of its future was, it considered, practical and pragmatic. An earlier speaker referred to the pragmatism that was exercised by the negotiators for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. They ought to be lauded, but because of their youthful age compared with other negotiators acting on behalf of other tribes, I suggest to the House that their acceptance of what has been offered to Ng\u0101ti Mutunga will be a load that not only will they have to bear but also all their descendants will have to bear in the years to come. As the people of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga reflect on this settlement, none of us need to guess who will get the blame if there is any criticism of the settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EFrom a political party viewpoint and to ensure there is consistency on our part, I want to refer to the inclusion in the bill of references to the terms \u201Cprinciples of the Treaty of Waitangi\u201D or \u201CTreaty of Waitangi and its principles\u201D. As the House well knows, my colleague Doug Woolerton has sponsored a member\u2019s bill, which has been referred to a select committee, to have references to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi deleted from the 30-odd pieces of legislation in which they appear at the moment. When I raised this issue regarding the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi at the select committee hearing with the applicants, I was led to understand from them that the principles were not an issue for them but rather the issue was the fact that there were, indeed, breaches of the Treaty. That then gives rise to the question of why it has been so important for the Crown to include references to Treaty principles in any settlement. New Zealand First has always maintained that in the absence of any clear definition of Treaty principles, and given their absence from the Treaty itself, the failure of anyone, particularly M\u0101ori, to request that the non-existent principles be included in legislation, and the fact that the term was originally inserted to provide a mere flourish to the State-Owned Enterprises Act, we do not see any need to include references to those principles. I signal to the House that during the Committee stage we will certainly be issuing a Supplementary Order Paper to seek the deletion of those references from this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding that, New Zealand First will certainly support this bill moving to the next stage of the process. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022463e2f75f84a41f38c65ea627bf1ffa2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022463e2f75f84a41f38c65ea627bf1ffa2\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of my colleague Metiria Turei and the Green Party, I congratulate Ng\u0101ti Mutunga on their settlement. Although we state regularly our objection to Government policy on the settlement process, there is no doubt that extraordinary work and effort by the iwi have gone into this settlement, and we acknowledge and applaud that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Mutunga is one of the eight Taranaki iwi to bring their settlement to the House. Their history, similarly, is one of dispossession and disenfranchisement at the hands of the New Zealand settler Government, which unlawfully confiscated their lands and imprisoned their people. The confiscations were indiscriminate, and the entirety of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s rohe was stolen from them. The compensation process established to mitigate the thefts was never implemented. Ng\u0101ti Mutunga rightly supported the acts of passive resistance organised by the prophets Te Whiti and Tohu at Parihaka. The subsequent military invasion of Parihaka led to the destruction of homes, the confiscation of assets like stock, imprisonment, and the forced removal of some 1,600 women, men, and children. M\u0101ori were effectively made refugees in their own country. It was one of the most shameful episodes in our history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process for this bill, there were no objections to this settlement. I thank those who made submissions, particularly the r\u016Bnanga and negotiators for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. Their submission was very powerful. I will refer to two issues they raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe first issue was around the quantum of the settlement. Ng\u0101ti Mutunga raised very serious concerns about the quantum effectively being a fait accompli. When they talked to the Office of Treaty Settlements about the quantum, the office refused to reveal how it had come to the initial amount. It told the committee that it does not go into a negotiation with a quantum in mind, but after further questioning it conceded that it does have a figure as a starting point. But the office set it all up before the negotiation. In the case of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, the initial figure proposed by the office changed by only a fraction in the final settlement. The office argued that commercial sensitivity prevented it from disclosing how it came to the initial figure. That is not good enough. The office must demonstrate clear and transparent processes for determining its initial offer. To do anything less puts the claimants at a very serious disadvantage and makes the process a pay-off, not a negotiation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe second issue was a reflection on the phrase \u201Cfair in the circumstances\u201D. Although the iwi were prepared to accept that statement in the settlement as a pragmatic concession, it is clear that \u201Cfair in the circumstances\u201D really means \u201Cin accordance with the political circumstances\u201D, not what is just. Again, this creates a fallacy around the settlements being a genuine negotiation for the purpose of righting serious wrongs and providing restitution. We must remember that M\u0101ori are extremely generous in accepting these settlements. Like Taranaki iwi before them, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga have agreed to accept less than they would otherwise be entitled to for the significant losses they have suffered. They have agreed to cooperate with the Government, and within a Government process that does not recognise their tikanga but requires them to operate within a P\u0101keh\u0101 framework. Only about 1 percent of the potential value of compensation is paid in Treaty settlements, and any initiatives designed to lift M\u0101ori to any kind of equal footing with the rest of the community are considered by far too many politicians in this House as being too generous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has in the past been very clear that but for the work of the iwi in concluding these settlements, and the costs in time, money, and people that this awful process requires, we would vote against settlements. We remain in complete opposition to a process by which the Government dictates the way in which things should be done in the tangata whenua domain, and in complete opposition to a process by which the wronged party is expected to submit to terms imposed by the wrongdoer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe Greens believe that the Government should develop with M\u0101ori a diversity of models for restitution that is premised on the tino rangatiratanga of hap\u016B as the first principle. Clearly, hap\u016B must not be punished for choosing not to participate in a Crown process that is extensively designed for their benefit but that fails to recognise their needs and concerns. Crown policy could be changed to engage with individual hap\u016B, as set out in Te Tiriti. The Crown could engage in a resolution process that focuses more closely on ongoing relationships, and less on fiscal and time constraints. It could accept alternative models through resolution that are determined by M\u0101ori themselves. This method of dealing with injustices of the past could achieve a real resolution. Meanwhile, we will be voting for this reading of the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Claims Settlement Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00220710cd9fbf2e4675a6cd23dd6b13844c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220710cd9fbf2e4675a6cd23dd6b13844c\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Assistant Speaker; kia ora t\u0101tou. E te Raukura, e te Maunga T\u012Bt\u014Dhea, nau mai, hara mai ki te Whare nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker, and greetings to us. Welcome to you, the Raukura and Mount T\u012Bt\u014Dhea, welcome to this House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe timing of select committee hearings is often simply a matter of scheduling. But this was not the case with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. Wednesday, 6 September 2006 was a marker in Ng\u0101ti Mutunga history. It was the first time that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga had ever dealt directly with an arm of Parliament. It was also on that exact day 141 years earlier that the Crown had wrongfully confiscated all of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s land. And what was the nature of the argument put by Ng\u0101ti Mutunga on this day of all days? The argument is captured in the following words: \u201CUltimately Ngati Mutunga\u2019s concerns fell on deaf ears and we were put in the position of having to cede to the Crown\u2019s view\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo what does it do to a people, who for 141 years have suffered the consequences of confiscation and military assault, to be greeted by a Government that says: \u201CHere it is; take it or dip out.\u201D? As one of the iwi of Taranaki wh\u0101nui, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga lives every day with the aftermath of land deprivation and disempowerment. Having married into the Taranaki people and lived there for around 6 years\u2014a very short period of time when one considers what has happened in Taranaki regarding confiscation\u2014I heard regularly how the people feel about muru me te raupatu\u2014confiscation. You see, they sing about it, they haka about it\u2014confiscation is etched as part of their history. Mr Mahara Okeroa knows their songs; he is from there\u2014from Waitara, from Parihaka, which are symbols of the legacy of land confiscation. Every day on the drive from Urenui to Ng\u0101motu in New Plymouth, members of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga face the impact of perpetual leases, and the promises of the reserves made in the confiscations of the 1860s that are still not given effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Taranaki situation is unique. In the 1996 Taranaki report, the Waitangi Tribunal concluded: \u201CIt is a further consequence of this extraordinary record of expropriation and deprivation that there is not one hectare of Taranaki land that is now held entirely on Maori terms and by Maori rules. All that could have been done was done to destroy the land base for Maori autonomy and representation. In the governance of the Taranaki province, since the Treaty of Waitangi was signed, land has been reserved for the bush and the birds but not one acre could be guaranteed as a haven for M\u0101ori.\u201D Not one acre. Imagine the consequences of living with that reality\u2014promises reneged on, justice denied\u2014and of every day living with the legacy of extensive land loss and debilitating land reform. Finally, on the day when Ng\u0101ti Mutunga had the generosity to meet with the Crown, once more the Crown failed to respect their authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party strongly endorses the notion that tikanga should take preference in such matters as definition of who is whom, and that it must be for iwi to define themselves. Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Mutunga asked the Crown to define it in a manner consistent with Ng\u0101ti Mutungatanga, but, no, the Crown insisted that the Adoption Act, the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and the Human Rights Act should usurp and override Ng\u0101ti Mutunga tikanga. Historical hap\u016B that are no longer included within the iwi community were placed in the settlement by the Crown. I mean, what is up with that? This House should by now be well aware of the conflict and internal divisions attached to the process of Treaty settlements, yet here is the Crown willingly marching in, like troops storming Parihaka, to set up scenarios that could threaten the internal unity of the iwi. Why do it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOnce the Crown redefined the iwi, it proceeded with the ultimate offence, by pulling a figure out of the air\u2014$14.9 million\u2014and expecting Ng\u0101ti Mutunga to be grateful. No explanation was given as to the methodology for calculating the quantum. There was no transparency\u2014zilch. Speaker after speaker\u2014from the Government, at least\u2014mentioned the incredible gesture of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga in taking the pittance as being in the best interests of the country, while talking up a rugby stadium and a financial surplus of $11.5 billion. But the country does not seem to be able to afford this settlement. K\u0101tahi te mahi, h\u014Dh\u0101 ko tera. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe revelation to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee from the Office of Treaty Settlements that the Crown enters Treaty settlements with a predetermined quantum in mind, while not earth-shattering news, was more definitive proof that the fiscal cap lives and that good-faith bargaining is only ever one way. The thief consistently expects to be received in good faith. The committee concluded, as do we, that there could be no confidence that the offer of settlement was a fair assessment of the severity of the breach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn particular, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga remain aggrieved that the reduction of the 150,000 acres to the 75,000 presented by the Sim Commission was not reflected in the quantum. This is a massive difference, yet, as always, the Crown authority prevails. Although the minimisation of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s traditional boundaries was acknowledged in writing, the injustice remains for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. I suppose Ng\u0101ti Mutunga went into the negotiations with eyes open. They knew that the commercial redress reflects less than 1 percent of the value of the land confiscated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe pain of the alienation has not been lessened by this settlement, of that I am sure. The Department of Conversation estate remains in Crown hands. All lands within Ng\u0101ti Mutunga\u2019s traditional rohe have been lost. I suspect that the inevitable contrast with other settlements that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga perceive as having included significant commercial assets, such as Crown forest licensed land, leaves Ng\u0101ti Mutunga with more questions. To top it off, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga incurred substantial costs in even getting to the point of settlement. It is no wonder that they describe the process as outrageous when we consider that these are the uri of t\u016Bpuna who suffered the worst excesses of war and raupatu and are now forced to struggle to find resources to make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EYet despite all of this, and despite the sense of resentment and injustice heaped upon injustice, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga was required to agree that the settlement was fair under the circumstances. What could possibly be fair about Ng\u0101ti Mutunga being denied their right to develop their potential? What is fair about the fact that although redress has not been negotiated for their tupuna maunga, a fiscal element has already been calculated as a part of the settlement quantum? What is fair about the quantum being based on a figure that most understand as having been plucked out of the air, or by someone saying: \u201COh, one percent sounds good.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI know Ng\u0101ti Mutunga to be a proud people, despite the long-lasting effects of land confiscation. They and the other tribes of Taranaki are a source of personal inspiration in terms of their tenacity in hanging in there with their claims. Many tell us about the toll that the process takes on people, but their descendants yet to be born will know of their determination and united resolve to do what they could in the best interests of the people. We pay tribute to the efforts in reconnecting the ahi k\u0101 with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga uri spread throughout ng\u0101 hau e wh\u0101. We of the M\u0101ori Party will support any amendment that relates to the liquidation and wind-up of the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Iwi Authority incorporated society and the transfer of its assets and functions to Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Mutunga private trust, if this is what is wanted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe note the disappointment expressed by the select committee that the Ng\u0101ti Mutunga Iwi Authority had to incur costs of up to $20,000 to transfer the assets and functions to the post-governance entity Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. We of the M\u0101ori Party will not relent from exposing the arrogant approach taken by the Crown in its dealing with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. Hansard will record, for example, our shock at the Crown not initially disclosing these sorts of costs to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI must say that we understand that Ng\u0101ti Mutunga must be practical and make the best of the disastrous situation. The pitiful quantum allocated to the settlement and the directive to establish the r\u016Bnanga in the place of the iwi authority as a requirement of the settlement are in themselves sufficient to explain to this House the expectation that the liquidation of the iwi authority will be effected as a part of this settlement process. We agree that there is already well-established precedent for the use of legislation to effect the liquidation of an existing iwi representative entity and its replacement with a new entity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI attended a number of the Taranaki tribunal hearings. The 1996 Waitangi report stated: \u201CIf war is the absence of peace, the war has never ended in Taranaki, because that essential prerequisite for peace among peoples, that each should be able to live with dignity on their own lands, is still absent \u2026\u201D. This bill does nothing to advance the peacemaking process. One would assume that giving an apology might mean that the Crown would not breach again, yet the Crown continues to do so. Ng\u0101ti Mutunga survive, but an enduring conflict remains. Such is the nature of Treaty settlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u00228dc7271d2ba742fdb6917a44c0e99f13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dc7271d2ba742fdb6917a44c0e99f13\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Right, let us cut to the chase. We have heard lovely speeches so far in this debate. This must be one of the worst cases of confiscation the country has ever seen. We can put this issue up alongside those of Tainui and Ng\u0101i Tahu. At the end of the day, what we saw in the Taranaki district is no less than abhorrent to most right-thinking people. Is the settlement of $14 million decent enough? Absolutely not. It does not even scratch the surface. My colleague before me mentioned the stadium that the country is besotted with at the moment. One billion dollars is proposed for a national stadium; $14 million is being provided in redress for an unholy war that was brought upon the Taranaki people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI hate to say this, but we will be supporting this legislation. I hate to say it because I want more to be provided in compensation for the people who suffered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239e63b1b85194212b998cbc764c8954e\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: We tried to help them, remember? We helped them a bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc78fc8004d43bb89af285db7b22fcd\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we tried to help. Governments always try to help. But let us be serious about this. This quantum is pathetic, given what the Crown did and what Taranaki went through. We all think that what we are doing is good. My heart and soul are in the right place, in terms of wanting to reach a settlement and support the Government. But let us get serious about this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI want to raise a number of issues today. One issue is what Ng\u0101ti Mutunga wants the Government to look at, in terms of moving from the old entity to the new entity. The M\u0101ori Affairs Committee report states about that issue: \u201CThe Crown requires that claimant groups have an established governance entity to receive and manage their settlement assets.\u201D But then we turn around and say that they cannot have that move from the old entity to the new one in this legislation. Why not? The iwi is required to move from an old to a new entity\u2014certain things are required to happen\u2014but the legislation does not include how that should happen. So I have huge sympathy with Ng\u0101ti Mutunga on that. [Interruption] Here is the issue. Ng\u0101ti Mutunga was given a quantum of money, but I found out today that that was only in the transition from the old entity, not the move to the new entity. I want to go on record today as saying that we have to sort that issue out before the Committee stage, not during the Committee stage. The Office of Treaty Settlements representatives and the Crown negotiators need to front up and get the matter straight. They should not leave it to New Zealand First, the National Party, and the M\u0101ori Party to do that sort of work. It is up to the Minister and it is up to the Office of Treaty Settlements to do that business and make sure that the i\u2019s are dotted and the t\u2019s are crossed before they come back to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EAnother issue concerns the mandate. I will always go on about the mandate, as I have a really big issue about that. The select committee report states: \u201CIn the ratification vote on the deed of settlement, from the total 2,000 members of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, 48 percent (635 people) of the 1,313 eligible members voted validly. Of these, 94 percent (597 people) voted in favour of accepting the deed of settlement.\u201D That is actually less than 50 percent of the tribe. Why put a figure of 94 percent there? It gives the impression that 94 percent of the 2,000 are in favour of the deed of settlement, when less than 50 percent of the 2,000 are actually in favour of it. I am not casting aspersions on Ng\u0101ti Mutunga; I am just saying that if we are to have anything written about mandates, then please let us not try to hide the size of a mandate in a figure like 94 percent. That makes a lie of the settlement. It suggests to everyone who is interested that 94 percent of the iwi actually support the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EWhat worries me as well, in terms of settlement legislation, is the question of who knows about it. We do; Ng\u0101ti Mutunga does. The rest of the nation will go about their business tomorrow, the next day, and the day after that, not even knowing the history of what has happened. When one talks about passive resistance, the name that one conjures up is of that of Mahatma Gandhi from the 1930s. But hey, what about Parihaka? Why have we not been upfront with regard to our own history? Why have we not revelled in the mana of Parihaka? We should revel in the mana of Taranaki, in terms of the way M\u0101ori there handled their dispute with the Crown. If the Government wants to talk about national identity, why does it not start there? If the Government wants to talk about national identity on a world stage, let it talk about national identity in terms of where and what in our history contributes to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EWe can have settlements that are lasting. But $14 million for 150,000 acres that were confiscated? Come on, let us be serious! I think that is a scandal. We should be able to fix that scandal and we should be looking at doing so, instead of saying: \u201CWell, that\u2019s all we can afford, boys and girls. You either take it or leave it.\u201D My colleague Te Ururoa Flavell said that that is exactly what has happened\u2014take it or leave it. People say that a Treaty settlement is a negotiated settlement. We can only negotiate so far. When we keep saying to the Crown that its offer is not enough, we have two choices. One choice is to thank the Crown very much for its kind donation and go on with the settlement, and the other is to say no and move to the back of the bus. I do not think that is fair on anybody. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI am afraid that all the apology says is that the Government is sorry. This legislation does not say why the Government is sorry, and it does not give the historical reasons why it should be sorry. It does not say that anywhere in the legislation. Will the settlement be full and final? Who knows whether in 100 years\u2019 time the uri of the people who have signed the deed of settlement and signed up for the settlement will not come knocking on the door again and say it ain\u2019t good enough? Who knows? Quite frankly, I will not be here to see it, so let us concentrate on the now. We believe that it is a full and final settlement, the Crown believes it is a full and final settlement, and maybe some of Ng\u0101ti Mutunga believe it is a full and final settlement. There are four things about this bill: redress, apology, cooperation, and reconciliation. I hope that one day we do get to the stage where we can reconcile what has happened\u2014reconcile the differences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ELastly, and very briefly, I say that to not have reference to the Treaty of Waitangi in what is essentially a Treaty of Waitangi settlement is absurd. It is stupid, it is silly, and it is time New Zealand First got off the horse and did things properly. I agree with New Zealand First members that a Treaty reference should not be in all legislation, but it should be in Treaty settlement legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022 data-id=\u00226676d367bfdb419ba7f2e178abffae1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226676d367bfdb419ba7f2e178abffae1c\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA (Minister of State):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, ka t\u016B mai au i runga i te taumata roimata hekeheke iho i ng\u0101 kanohi o koutou r\u0101, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga. Ko t\u0113nei t\u016B, e t\u016B poroporoaki ki t\u0113tehi o koutou kua whakawairua i taua w\u0101, ar\u0101, t\u0113tehi o ng\u0101 wahine poupou e whakaarahi mai i te ara m\u014D koutou, mai r\u0101 an\u014D. N\u0101, ka mate taua wahine r\u0101 i te ng\u0101rara kaitangata, i ngaungau mai i tana tinana. N\u0101, ko taua wahine r\u0101, ko Teresa. I a au e kite mai i \u014D koutou nei kanohi, \u0101, ka hoki mahara mai ki taua wahine e takoto mai r\u0101 i roto i t\u0113tehi o ng\u0101 urup\u0101 o roto o Te \u0100ti Awa, me k\u012B p\u0113nei pea, e ngaungau noke te ingoa tawhito o t\u0113n\u0101, i takoto ng\u0101tahi ai a ia i a r\u0101tou r\u0101. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EKa mihi mai ahau ki te Whare nei, i a koutou nei e t\u016B i runga i te marae \u0101tea, e whakapuaki ai koutou i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero mai i \u014D koutou nei kaing\u0101kau. Ar\u0101, ki a koe te uri o Te Rangiwewehi, e whakahuatia mai i ng\u0101 nawe mai i nehenehe nui, \u0101, i runga i a r\u0101tou r\u0101, i raro i te maunga waiwai kope a Taranaki. Tae noa atu ki t\u0113n\u0101 n\u0101 o Ng\u0101ti Hine, e h\u0101mama \u0101-waha i ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga i whakah\u0113 pea i ng\u0101 wawata i runga i te pokohiwi o ng\u0101 uri o t\u0113tehi. N\u0101, i runga i te pokohiwi o koutou r\u0101 e noho i runga. N\u014D reira Mutunga mai i T\u012Btoki ki Te Rau o te huia, hoki ng\u0101 kamo ki te tuawhenua n\u0101, ki taua pou whenua a Tara m\u014Dku, i te taha o te awa o Waitara, e piki, e rere mai i tana t\u012Bmatatanga tae noa atu ki te ngutu awa ki taua rohe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E[I rise in terms of the tears that you have shed, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, and to farewell one of your number who has passed away. She was a pillar who paved the way for you from the outset, and succumbed to that dreaded disease, cancer. Teresa was that woman. Memories of her at rest in one of Te \u0100ti Awa\u2019s graveyards came flooding back as I looked at your faces. So, greetings to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EI acknowledge this House and those of you who have spoken and expressed your views; indeed, to you the relative from Rangiwewehi and your references to longstanding grievances upon those from beneath Mount Taranaki. I also acknowledge the contributions from the member of Ng\u0101ti Hine. And so to you, Mutunga, from T\u012Btoki to the Plume of the Huia, into the hinterland and along the banks of the Waitara River from its source to its outlet, greetings to you. ] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EAs a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee and also, as was said by the honourable member over there, as Te Uri o Taranaki. In the discussion so far, without doubt there is an opportunity to express a whole range of issues that people perceive as not being of assistance to a claims process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E Tau Henare, the National Party member, spent a lot of time talking about the quantum in terms of dollars and cents. Yet he was a Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs when those of us who were in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri at the time had to take around all the rohe M\u0101ori the notion about the $1 billion cap. We are seeing here, I suppose, in terms of a policy matter, the implications of two issues that have affected claims after the Ng\u0101i Tahu claim and the Waikato claim\u2014first, the policy about the $1 billion cap; second, the issue that tends to, in my view, limit the value of the claim, which is termed the ratchet clause. So every claim that has come subsequent to that is, in my view, valued in a framework with those two major issues that still resonate in every claims process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003ESo I would suggest to the honourable member Mr Tau Henare, as he waxes glorious about the quantum for Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, that he reflect on the implication of what his political regime did with regard to Treaty claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EAs the last speaker, I take on board all issues that were expressed today, and the honesty with which those issues were articulated. In a sense they need to be kept being articulated. For example, the policy concerning what I would call whakataurimatanga\u2014other people would refer to that as wh\u0101ngai\u2014in a sense is counter to the whole issue about settlements based on whakapapa. Because often our descendants are not only Aotearoa based, they are a part of a global village, and as such they often form alliances with people who are non-M\u0101ori. But under the legislation, as at present existing, they have an equal right in terms of claimants. Yet in the M\u0101ori land tenure we have a principle under law that means that the alienation of M\u0101ori-owned land can be transferred only to what they call the preferred class of alienee, which means one has to be part of the original whakapapa in order to inherit particular land rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003ESo those questions that have been asked do bear further discussion. In spite of that, and in spite of those well articulated issues being put before this House, I commend Mutunga for their persistence and consistency in taking a pathway forward, which they describe as being pragmatic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003ENow whatever my thoughts were with regard to the pragmatic approach, in essence I suppose, for the iwi that makes the decision about whether to accept, that is a responsibility and an issue that it must come to terms with. So, Mutunga, me \u014D koutou nei raukura titi\u0101, [Mutunga and your feather adornments] this is only the second reading. There is one further reading plus a Committee stage where no doubt we will seek to address one major issue that has been brought up, and that is in regard to the translocation or transference of assets from one point to another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EI think this second reading has been thoughtful, and definitely not adversarial, because each member has taken a stance to express a particular view. Having done that, members of this House must also take into consideration as well that Mutunga has accepted the offer. N\u0101 koutou k\u0113 te mana, ehara i a m\u0101tou. Ahakoa te teitei hoki o ng\u0101 ngaru papaki mai. Ahakoa te korop\u016Bp\u016B hoki ai \u014D t\u014D koutou kaing\u0101kau, tangi ai. N\u0101 koutou k\u0113 e whakaaengia kia haere tika ai. Anei te tihi o ng\u0101 whakatauk\u012Btanga k\u014Drero mai i a Taranaki: \u201CTo mua an\u014D ki mua.\u201D Ahakoa r\u0101 ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga \u014D muri ake. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou, kia ora mai t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E[The authority is yours, not ours. Regardless how high the waves are that crash on the shore, regardless what bubbles up from within you and cries, it was you who agreed what is appropriate. Here is a saying of all sayings from Taranaki, regardless of the circumstances to follow: \u201CWhat must be to the fore should be foremost.\u201D So, greetings to you and to all of us.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc61ea8ba3ef4c9e8c63517d5850d1f2\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224227c41c6c3d43caab00d4d892072f43\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff0d0fb8c2ad424eb0bd018752b9ebbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff0d0fb8c2ad424eb0bd018752b9ebbb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill be now read a third time. Climate change presents very serious global risks and demands an urgent global response. The recent Stern review concluded that the scientific evidence is overwhelming. Taking action now must be viewed as investment in the future. The less we do now, the greater the difficulty and the costs of adapting to climate change in the future. We must do what we can to reduce our emissions, to protect our clean, green image, and to make our contribution to the global effort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe great outdoors is central to Kiwis\u2019 lives. We need to protect it so that we can maintain our distinct New Zealand way of life. We need to take action, balanced with the need for productivity gains and growth. This bill is about providing opportunities. The bill allows individuals the opportunity to hold accounts in New Zealand\u2019s Emissions Unit Registry and to trade in emission units. It also provides a mechanism for landowners to establish forest sinks and earn Kyoto Protocol units. With these opportunities come risks. As with all investments, individuals will need to make their own assessment of the risks and returns of entering the emerging carbon market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn regard to the Emissions Unit Registry, the bill amends the principal Act to allow for individuals, not only the Crown, to hold accounts in the registry, and therefore to hold emission units. The amendments made by the Commerce Committee were to clauses 5, 13, and 23, in order to better protect the property rights and interests of unit and account holders. The Commerce Committee amended clauses 5 and 13, which relate to the powers of the Minister of Finance and the registrar to deal with units, open accounts, etc., by providing more specific criteria in circumstances in which the Ministers responsible for the registry may provide a direction to the registrar to close a holding account. The select committee also amended clause 23, which limits the bar to bringing an action against the Crown. This narrows the exclusion of Crown liability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn regard to the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative, the bill amends the principal Act by inserting a new Part 3B into the Forests Act 1949. This will provide an opportunity for landowners to establish forest sinks and earn carbon credits. The mechanisms in this bill will enable landowners to make better productive use of their land, particularly isolated and erosion-prone land that is currently marginal for uses such as agriculture or conventional forestry production. Landowners may wish to establish a forest to control soil erosion, improve water quality, and better manage flood peaks. This may in turn assist with maintaining land production, averting damage to farm improvements, and reducing downstream damage from siltation and pollution. Forestry, of course, can also diversify rural incomes, thus reducing the impact of adverse events that may become more frequent with climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Permanent Forest Sink Initiative provides an opportunity for landowners to assist in both mitigating and adapting to climate change. The aim of adapting to climate change is to minimise the risks and maximise the opportunities that will arise from the projected changes in our climate over the coming decades and century. Adaptation complements mitigation, and mitigation is about reduction of emissions. Both are necessary responses to deal with the challenges that climate change poses to our economy, environment, and society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Government moved amendments to the bill through a Supplementary Order Paper during the Committee of the whole House. Since the second reading, in relation to the registry, amendments have been made to clause 7(2)(a), clause 9, and clause 15(1). The amendments to clauses 7(2)(a) and 15(1) were made in order to ensure more efficient operation of the registry. The amendment to clause 9 was to provide better transparency and specificity in order to better protect the rights of unit and account holders. With regard to the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative, amendments were made to clause 30. The amendments substitute new definitions of landholding, carbon sequestration, forest sink, forest sink covenant, and landowner. These are technical amendments and will assist the working of the legislation. The more substantive change to clause 30 concerns the regulation-making powers. It enables regulations to be promulgated by the Governor-General in Council concerning carbon sequestration calculation methodology, the transfer of units, the definition of a forest sink, dispute resolution, requirements for reporting and verification, and harvest restrictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFinally, I thank all of those involved in developing the bill, the Commerce Committee for its consideration of the bill, and my parliamentary colleagues from both sides of the House who have supported the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022222f05494502495c8421163cf311f25c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022222f05494502495c8421163cf311f25c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E What a pickle we have in New Zealand in respect of climate change policy. It has all been said quite accurately by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. That neutral office holder has said that in New Zealand right now we have a vacuum in respect of climate change policy. Here we are, 7 years after the election of this Government, and on one of the most critical issues of our time we have a vacuum. All we have from the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues is that next month we will get some options. We on this side of the House say that, after 7 years of this Government, a set of options is simply not good enough; it is simply not credible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E It is all the more incredible that the Prime Minister, at the recent Labour Party conference, said that New Zealand is going to be carbon neutral. That was an extraordinary commitment from the Prime Minister. The advice from officials is that New Zealand does not have a bolter\u2019s show of meeting the very modest targets of the Kyoto Protocol as ratified in 2002. Officials are saying that even to stabilise emissions from New Zealand is an extraordinarily demanding thing to do. So for a Prime Minister who has failed so badly to now be talking about a more ambitious goal than that of any other country in the world defies credibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen we look at the Government\u2019s actual record. How often have I heard Labour members damning the Governments of Australia and the United States in respect of climate change? How often have I stood on the platform and heard Labour Ministers talking about big bad George W Bush being in the pocket of the oil barons and a threat to the climate? Well, this week in Nairobi this Government got a very harsh message. You see, emissions under Helen Clark\u2019s Government have grown by 6.8 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022754b1e00ffc748bc9ef3136797d3dd58\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f5709778ac4031957f08d32c993c2e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: By 6.8 percent, and in the big bad USA over the same years emissions have grown by 1.3 percent. So there we have Helen Clark\u2019s actual record\u2014not the rhetoric but the actual record\u2014which is five times worse than that of George W Bush. Now let us look at the record of Australia, because I have often been at international conferences where our Labour Ministers have pretended that somehow John Howard and Australia are the bad guys. Again, I ask them to look at the record, because New Zealand\u2019s emissions are growing at a far faster rate than Australia\u2019s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849c59c809e34de6ad4824f3ecf6e314\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s their total per person?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b68add058844a094fb2357dd7d1542\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: But even more serious, I tell Mr Darren Hughes, is that in the last 6 years, when Mr Hughes and Labour have been in Government, we have seen each and every year a decline in the amount of forestation. Throughout the 1990s we averaged plantings of 60,000 hectares of new forest each year. Every year that Labour has been in office that number has dropped, to the point where in 2004 and 2005 we actually had net deforestation. Labour has said that that is just economics and it is not its fault. Well, that is interesting. If we go across to Australia, which is selling to exactly the same markets, and which is investing heavily in the pine and forest industry, we see that there is 450,000 hectares of new forests. So I say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7aa1b5eaf3a432a8e79c71cdef5a0ec\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a bigger country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e0a0e42c3a4c96817dca1397684e48\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Shane Jones says that it is a bigger country. Let us say that it has five times our population. If we were doing even one-fifth as well, we would expect to have 90,000 hectares of new forest in New Zealand. But I tell Mr Jones that we are actually cutting down more trees than we are planting\u2014we are going backwards. So I say to Labour members that their track record is appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet us look at the track record of policy failures. There has been the \u201Cfart tax\u201D, and the backward flip on that. There has been the carbon tax, and the Government\u2019s back-down on that\u2014although we have different answers from the Prime Minister and from the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues as to why the carbon tax was dropped. There is the billion-dollar bungle in respect of the Kyoto balance. Projects to encourage renewable energy have been stopped. We have had negotiated greenhouse agreements, and that policy has been canned. There has even been the nonsense of Labour voting to remove climate change provisions from the Resource Management Act, then voting for a bill that would put them back in. Labour has blocked renewable energy projects\u2014it killed Project Aqua and it stopped the Dobson hydro scheme\u2014yet it has built coal-fired power stations and gas-fired power stations, and, for goodness\u2019 sake, it has even spent public money on building an oil-fired power station. It is little wonder that we have seen a constant decline in the proportion of New Zealand\u2019s electricity that is produced from renewable energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMembers opposite, who have no policy\u2014the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment says they have no policy; their friends in the Green Party say they have no policy\u2014ask what National\u2019s policy is. I want to outline exactly what National thinks should be done. We believe that we need to cap the emissions in the electricity sector. They are growing faster than those in any other area. New Zealand has lots of renewable energy options, with wind, hydro, geothermal, and wave and tidal energy, to be able to meet this country\u2019s electricity needs without building another coal-fired power station, as Mighty River Power, one of this Government\u2019s State-owned enterprises, is promoting in Whangarei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe also say that we need to provide an incentive to plant forests. That is why we are saying we want a tradable emissions permit system, which will enable us to encourage players in the forestry industry to get some credits for the forests they are planting. You see, this Government, with its ridiculous policy of a deforestation cap, is saying to foresters that it will charge them if in future they cut down their trees. Not surprisingly, those foresters have their chainsaws out early and they are cutting those trees down, which is bad for our economy and bad for the environment. That deforestation cap will go. National says that is a sound approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe have identified a whole number of other such ideas, including bio-fuels, improving the fuel efficiency of vehicles, updating the building code to take into account energy efficiency, reforming the Resource Management Act so that we can actually build some renewable energy projects, and joining the Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate, an agreement that includes India and China. Let us be honest: we will not make any progress on climate change unless those countries are engaged and involved. We have also talked about the fact that we need to substantially boost investment in research and development. This Government has turned down over $3 million worth of research projects to reduce our agricultural emissions, and we simply say that that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E So this bill is not going to take us very far, at all. Those who think this bill will solve New Zealand\u2019s climate change problem are kidding themselves. I challenge the next Labour speaker to tell us how Labour is going to make New Zealand carbon neutral. It is all very well for the Prime Minister to prophesy with her incredible targets at the Labour Party conference, and to talk about our being carbon neutral, but she should come down to this Parliament and tell us how that will be achieved. For us it looks like a pipedream. [Interruption] I say to Mr Hughes and Marian Hobbs that the Labour Party cannot have a conference where it talks about being carbon neutral, then have Mighty River Power propose to build a new coal-fired power station that will produce 38 million tonnes of carbon over the next 40 years. That is simply not credible. I would like the next Labour speaker to explain why it has proceeded to build a new oil-fired power station.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe need leadership in this area. National has provided it. I encourage Labour to pick up National\u2019s constructive ideas around a tradable emissions permit system. That is the way of the future. This bill is only a teeny-weeny step towards providing what is required. We need to fill the vacuum that exists in climate change policy and actually provide New Zealand with a constructive way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022 data-id=\u0022b76f8fe88443453d8449fa1c21cac46c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b76f8fe88443453d8449fa1c21cac46c\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E With delight I rise to support the third reading of the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill, for several reasons. The first is to reply immediately to the speaker before me, the Hon Dr Nick Smith, and reiterate to all who are listening that this bill is not the sole movement, the sole way forward, towards achieving carbon neutrality. To advocate that, or even to pretend that, would be foolish. I have not heard anyone on the Government benches ever advocate that this Permanent Forest Sink Initiative is the sole way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EWe will reach our goals, and there are several reasons why I support this bill. The first is that amending the Act so that individuals as well as the Crown can hold emission units will allow for possible developments as policy comes out in the future. I say that as clearly as I possibly can, for those who are well aware of what is actually happening in respect of the questions of reforestation or forestation. At the moment, the holding of emission units is very limited. The bill says that someone not connected with the Government can now own carbon credits. We have actually made a shift, and that shift, in this particular bill, opens up some possibilities that I understand are the subject of policy development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThe second reason why I particularly support this bill is that the whole notion of the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative does allow landowners to establish forest sinks and earn carbon credits. Particularly, though, it allows them to do this and at the same time kill about two or three birds with one stone\u2014or with one planting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228960e93098343f88642ff2c7345876d\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not going to kill birds!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4217740bc6461ab2d3413195b3df96\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are not; we are going to provide habitat for birds, and that is about the fifth reason why we should do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThis initiative is particularly about planting forest on isolated or erosion-prone land, and that is something that will help land subject to the floods that have come about largely through climate change and deforestation. Some say this can be done by planting indigenous trees and plants, thereby enhancing the habitat. Those of us who were in the Local Government and Environment Committee meeting this morning listening to officials of the Department of Conservation know that this initiative is another tool for that department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThe bill is also about improving water quality. At this stage, I draw the attention of members opposite to water quality and Lake Taup\u014D, and I will repeat a small story for people here who claim there has been a loss of the amount of acreage in forest. When I was the Minister for the Environment the ministry was negotiating funding of $81 million, and the methodology, to change land use around Lake Taup\u014D. The ministry talked to T\u016Bwharetoa, the Taup\u014D District Council, and Environment Waikato. We were trying to do this aside from regulation\u2014to provide incentive. Suddenly, we had forest owners coming to us saying that they wanted to bill the Government for billions of dollars. The reason they gave was that they knew there was no money in forestry, there was money only in dairying, and that if the Government said they could not put in dairy farms around Lake Taup\u014D because it wanted the lake\u2019s water quality to improve, then they wanted compensation. That has meant that every time I hear forestry companies say that the Government does not really care about the Kyoto Protocol or about water quality, I know that all they care about is the bottom dollar. Some of those people do not have an environmental bone in their bodies. I find those sorts of arguments, which have been repeated by our colleagues across the floor so many times, slightly difficult to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EI remind those members of the House that the Kyoto Protocol was an attempt by the international community to find a mechanism by which it could solve the planetary problem of global warming, and that mechanism was a trading mechanism. It is the same sort of mechanism that is actually being used in respect of nitrates around Lake Taup\u014D, and maybe around Lake Rotorua. It is the same kind of thing. An incentive is given to people in order to change their ways of earning, their ways of farming, or their ways of industry. The mechanism involved is a trading mechanism and it involves the valuing of carbon credits. As we say in this bill, if people can grow more trees to absorb carbon, then they can earn credits and balance that against greenhouse gas emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EThat\u2014for those who are not listening\u2014is what is meant by carbon neutrality. It is a balance between emissions and credits earned, and it can be done in market forms and by activity. So some industries, private cars, bus fleets, whatever, will be exuding carbon dioxide\u2014and animals will be giving out methane and greenhouse gas emissions\u2014and those emissions will be neutralised by what those industries plant and grow that absorbs the carbon out there. That is carbon neutrality. It is a really important aim to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E I must admit that I feel I have been at the receiving end of the speech given before me by the Hon Dr Nick Smith at least five times in 5 days, and I am getting rather bored by that particular speech. I also find it ironic, because the same member gets up and says all the time: \u201CI want consensus. I want to work with the Government.\u201D Well, the Government feels particularly attacked and unloved by that particular member, and, for all sorts of reasons, cannot really understand why we should get into bed with him. Well, there are all sorts of reasons!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e358394c4a44c08aa7c3f7ea60cd421\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, just stay with killing the birds!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e8aa8f44fab4d97921265e97fb82581\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS\u003C/span\u003E: I will stay with killing the birds. Is it consensus when that particular member gets up and breaks select committee convention by quoting from documents that were given to the select committee? I would think that is not an endearing attribute of working with the Government. Is it consensus when the National Party uses every opportunity to attack, rather than to build trust and rather than to build consensus? It is all about attack. Its members ask why we do not take them with us on overseas delegations. Why would we, when all we get is attack, and we do not get a way of moving forward? Is it consensus to talk about percentages of growth rather than actual emissions or total per person, as in the statistics that were given out then? When one talks about Australia and percentages of growth in emissions, as distinct from emissions per person, that gives a totally different picture; that is playing around with statistics, and we have seen too much of that. That is not about building consensus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EIs it consensus to talk about Australia\u2019s reforestation when we know that the Australians do not have a dairy industry out there trying to take up every piece of acreage available, as happens particularly in Southland, where that member, Eric Roy, comes from? The Australians do not have that because they have an irrigation problem, with a lack of water, so their reforestation is for very good environmental reasons\u2014to conserve water and have a different land use. That is not comparing apples with apples. It is not an example of people from the other side talking with people from this side. It is an example of exchanging attack knives rather than working with. When we have an example of that working with, I think the Government will be interested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EBut, unlike National members, I will remind listeners what this bill is about. This bill is about the principles behind establishing a Permanent Forest Sink Initiative. By ratifying the Kyoto Protocol, an opportunity has been opened up for landowners\u2014particularly of largely marginal land\u2014to establish permanent forests and gain individual emission units. To enter that initiative the land must be eligible. Forest is defined under the protocol, but there may be areas of mixed scrub and pasture; the boundaries may not be clear, and we will work our way through that. What will the forest owners receive? They will receive tradable Kyoto Protocol - compliant emission units that they will be free to sell to whomever they wish. Can trees be harvested? Yes, trees will be able to be removed on a continuous canopy basis; people will not be able to clear-fell. Are we talking about exotic and indigenous species? We certainly are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003ESo there are opportunities out here to be taken. We are dealing with the environment; the benefits are not just about carbon credits and making money but about providing increased indigenous habitat and ecosystems, clean water, flood protection, and cleaner air in mitigation against dairying, for example. Those are, therefore, reasons to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003EFinally, I would like to say that I am grateful the National Party, for all its harrumphing and attacking, is\u2014I understand\u2014going to vote in favour of this legislation, having changed its mind halfway through and suddenly had a road to Damascus experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u00225c4b9ce697e54b7e915b24942c23cb69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c4b9ce697e54b7e915b24942c23cb69\u0022\u003EERIC ROY (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take my part in the third reading of the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill, too, and make what is probably about my eighth contribution since it was reported back and had its second reading. I would have liked to be here when the Climate Change Response Bill was introduced in 2002. Here we have a Government saying the Opposition is a johnny-come lately, yet the Government actually introduced the original legislation in 2002\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f852450a77b84af9aeb217041a48649f\u0022\u003ELindsay Tisch\u003C/span\u003E: 4 years!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4930100ae33431484984f292a41914f\u0022\u003EERIC ROY\u003C/span\u003E: \u20144 years ago. I accept what the member Marian Hobbs, who has just resumed her seat, said: this is a minor part of the much bigger plan that is needed to solve the problem. I look forward to new legislation and new initiatives, and I offer my wisdom and ability to assist the member in introducing something that is real and meaningful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EWhat we have had from this Government is, essentially, placebo activity\u2014activity that makes people think something is happening when it is not. The Government signed up to the Kyoto Protocol with the notion that it was going to solve the problem, but in reality the protocol is ineffectual because the model upon which it is based is flawed. Let us go back, the Kyoto Protocol said, to 1990 levels of emissions, and categorise countries into category 1, category 2, and category 3. But in the first commitment period only category 1 countries have to go back to 1990 levels, and it looks like no country will make it. New Zealand is not going to make it. This bill, which puts some solidity back into the sink market in terms of forestry, is not going to do it for New Zealand, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI want to state a few principles here. I, personally, have been concerned about the impacts of climate change since the late 1980s. Right now, it is a very, very topical issue. Many members will have seen or heard about the film An Inconvenient Truth. I am not sure the film actually progresses all that much the argument on the impacts of climate change. From my point of view, it is not really a scientific treatise; it is more an emotive response. We know that some of the issues that are presented in it are factually not right\u2014the bit about the islands in the Pacific sinking, causing Polynesian people to come to New Zealand, and that sort of thing. We know that is not right, so we start asking what else is not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E I, for one, would prefer that this argument be put at a scientific level, so that we can understand the issue better. I accept that maybe 20 percent of the scientific community are sceptics, but let them publish factual documents, not just make press statements. Then we can make comparisons, because science is about thesis and antithesis. That stuff needs to be out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EAs I have said, I have been looking at this issue for about 20 years, and I am persuaded that planet Earth has a fragile thermal blanket around it, and that New Zealand ought to accept its share of responsibility for the 7 million tonnes of greenhouse gases that are released into that blanket every day\u2014although some of those are absorbed into the ocean. But if the sceptics say that planet Earth can absorb and tolerate that much, then I ask at what point in the next 1,000 years\u2014considering that currently we release 7 million tonnes a day, and the amount is increasing\u2014they will say \u201COops!\u201D. Because that day must come, and the responsible course is for us to move now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThis bill plays a very minor part in this regard. The Government is wrong if it thinks the bill will buy us time in meeting our commitment. While the bill has been going through the different stages I have made many speeches on this subject, and have said there are a number of reasons why New Zealand is deforesting. The Government\u2019s own example, with Landcorp clear-felling a large area of the central North Island, indicates that there are other, more productive forms of land use; that there are better returns from doing something else. Just changing the sink responsibility, so that tree owners can own the forest credits, will not solve the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EI mentioned in an earlier speech that we need to have value-adding and processing so that there is an elevated price and we get more out of the trees we produce. We need to look at long-term commitments of electricity from a sustainable source, because, as my colleague the Hon Nick Smith said, this Government is relying more and more on thermal energy, and that has been the bogeyman in terms of our releasing greenhouse gases and the reason why New Zealand has performed so poorly according to the report that was presented in Nairobi recently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ESo we have to accept responsibility to put in order all of the things that will encourage people to plant trees. Yes, there are some fragile areas of New Zealand that we need to retire, and it will be good if they go back into some form of trees, but we ought not to react in a knee-jerk way and suddenly plant Pinus radiata or something else that may degrade the land with acid leaf litter or some of those other issues. We need to not react in a knee-jerk way; there needs to be a rational approach. Today the Local Government and Environment Committee heard the financial review of the Department of Conservation, and the officials said that the retiring of land under tenure review will assist in the generation of carbon credits. I thought, hello, tenure reviews are mostly about retiring land above the snowline, and the definition of the snowline is that trees do not grow above it. So how will we create a huge carbon sink on retired land above 1,000 metres? I am interested to see the Department of Conservation\u2019s proposals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe point is this bill will do a little bit, but not a lot. It is a start, but by no means a completion. There is the issue of \u201Cfood miles\u201D, and the Government must take action because some of our competitors in Europe are jumping on the bandwagon and saying their people must buy food products produced in Europe. That is nothing more than a prejudice against New Zealand for marketing reasons. It is not based on science, and earlier in my speech I said it was important that we bring science into this. The Minister has mentioned that New Zealand agriculture is much more efficient than that of other countries, but, on the other hand, the Government is out there trumpeting that 49 percent of our greenhouse gases come from agriculture, and that is drawing the attention of our competitors overseas. Yes, we might be more efficient, but they have in their heads the fact that New Zealand\u2019s agriculture is a significant player in the production of greenhouse gases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDuring the course of the debate, from the second reading on, I have urged and challenged Government members to justify with science the figure of 49 percent. Trees through photosynthesis sequester carbon out of the atmosphere; some of the 7 million tonnes of greenhouse gases emitted each day go into trees, and that is good. How come that does not work with grass? We are doing this country\u2019s exports a mischief when we loosely use that figure. I have asked officials, Government members, and anybody who uses that figure to justify it. Not one person has. So that is a challenge for the next Government speaker, and for the Government. If they continue to peddle that line, then the consequences are that consumers will boycott New Zealand goods, and that will be because the Government is promoting something that I do not believe is accurate. If it is accurate, then let Government members prove it, and then we will deal with the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ELet me conclude the way I started. This Earth is a relatively fragile environment, and we as legislators have a responsibility to do our bit, not just for today or for tomorrow but looking forward to the future. I believe that greenhouse gas emissions are one of those things that we need to approach in a rational way, and, yes, it is important that there is some kind of cooperation across the House. The previous speaker, the Hon Marian Hobbs, asked why the Government should include the Opposition. I say simply because National will be the Government, these are long-term issues, and we cannot have a 3-year parliamentary term approach to solving a problem that is significant looking forward centuries. That simply will not work, and there has to be buy in. National is offering our combined resources to work with the Government in finding a solution that not only will solve the problem of climate change but will build New Zealand\u2019s credibility, enhance the primary products that we produce, and build tourism, for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fba9fe10b7e64c3ca8d1c98e18b75186\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fba9fe10b7e64c3ca8d1c98e18b75186\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E In referring to what the previous speaker, Eric Roy, said, I point out that I have been working, perhaps harder than anyone in this House, to try to get some cross-party agreements going on climate change. I refer back to when I went to the Kyoto meeting in 1997. National was the Government and Simon Upton was the Minister for the Environment. There was no possibility then of the Greens being invited to join the Government delegation; I went entirely as an observer at my own expense. I had to go under the auspices of an international parliamentarians for the environment group, because there was no way I could get there under the auspices of the New Zealand Government. However, let us hope that times will change and we will get some more cross-party work on this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThe issue that the previous speaker raised is serious and deserves an explanation, and possibly I might be able to help answer his question. Eric Roy has consistently said he takes climate change seriously and wants answers. He asked why there are credits for forests planted on land but not for the carbon sequestered in grass on grasslands. The answer is that, yes, the grass stores a little bit of carbon, although not nearly as much as the forest does. When the Kyoto Protocol was negotiated the question was what land-use changes would qualify as sinks under Kyoto. The measurement tools in those days were quite poor compared with what they are now, and only forest was agreed to count\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022400223cd03594b8f808f39d12184a729\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member take a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb25c789d7b4551a053246fa2f439ec\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: The member will take a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c14ddca11342f7a8f5f56a00f4db69\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: The point I was making was how do you get to the 49 percent. I am not arguing the relative merit, because grass is processed. Could you answer that\u2014where do you get the 49 percent from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c86edc6688b486695de1b4907a89a79\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: Forty-nine percent is the result of counting those gases that the Kyoto Protocol counts\u2014methane, nitrous oxide, and so forth. It is the percentage of our gross emissions; nobody says it is the percentage of our net emissions. Under Kyoto, the carbon sequestered in animals and in grass does not count, but under Kyoto II that carbon might count. There will be more development of the whole question of land use and land-use change as the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298107432d7d34f60b4a20a4b44ed4d8c\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: So it is not a finite result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235df31f7dc3940b992c44899b0483857\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a finite result, but it is the one we are liable for in this term, and that is why we have to count it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EI gave some figures this afternoon on the area of forest that would be required to sequester all of our emissions in order to meet the Prime Minister\u2019s target of having a carbon-neutral economy. Members may have noted that those figures were very large. All of the land from Wellington up to Levin and the Wairarapa, for example, would be required to sequester just the outcome from our transport. I will update those figures a bit now. The Greens support this Permanent Forest Sink Initiative\u2014as we have done all the way through\u2014because we think permanent forest sinks are an important part of the answer. Let us look at just what they could achieve in neutralising the emissions that we are accountable for under Kyoto, which are the emissions that have grown since 1990. Under this bill, how much area of new permanent forest sink would we need to neutralise completely the growth in our emissions since 1990? The answer is that we would need 780,000 hectares of forest. That is not totally impossible. We can go a long way towards achieving a target like that if we want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8e16cbb8a14613b8881e4a63d3f542\u0022\u003EEric Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Is that per year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c951e4cf90e41b48ea11e345e05140d\u0022\u003EJEANETTE FITZSIMONS\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is to offset everything that has grown from 1990 until now. How is it made up? This is where the figures become interesting. Although agriculture represents around half of our total emissions, it is not around half of the growth, and it is only the growth we are accountable for\u2014this time\u2014under Kyoto. Agriculture has grown enough to require 280,000 hectares of forest. Could we find on marginal land, on odd corners of farms that are not highly productive, and on areas that are steep and slipping, 280,000 hectares in New Zealand on which to plant permanent forest in order to completely wipe the debt of all our increasing agricultural emissions since 1990? I have not done those figures, but I think maybe we could do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EBut let us compare that with what has happened with transport\u2014and this is the reason the Greens are so frustrated about the lack of action on transport by this Government and every preceding one. The transport emissions growth would require 330,000 hectares of forest. In other words, the growth in agricultural emissions would require the equivalent of 4.5 times the area of Lake Taup\u014D to be planted in forest, but the growth in transport emissions would require the equivalent of 5.4 times the area. Electricity, by comparison, is piddling; it would take only 55,000 hectares\u2014only 90 percent of the area of Lake Taup\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EThere is an awful lot of focus on electricity. Electricity is an easy target and we do need to take action everywhere, but the biggie is transport, and we are not looking at it. But it is not hard to do so. Our vehicles are using on average, across the fleet, twice as much fuel as they need to compared with best-practice vehicles, in order to travel the same distances and cart the same number of people. Surely, over the next decade or two that will be an easy target to reach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003ESo the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill is needed, it is overdue, and the Greens totally support it. Permanent forest sinks are an important way of meeting our Kyoto targets in the short term, and of restoring some climate balance in the longer term. They are only a temporary solution; in the long term there is not enough land to keep on expanding the planting area every year as we increase emissions. Therefore, permanent forest sinks will buy us some time. The real target has to be to reduce those emissions, to find clean sources of energy from renewables, to use energy much more efficiently, and to change the way we do things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003EBut this is a good bill. Let us support it, and let us recognise that 780,000 hectares of permanent forest sink would offset all of our emissions growth since 1990, which is what we are accountable for under Kyoto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022c552e3c9b33247b8bbe0cff3a7b69499\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c552e3c9b33247b8bbe0cff3a7b69499\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker; kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. The emails came in fast and furious after the second reading of the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill on 25 October\u2014to the M\u0101ori Party, at least. One email said the following: \u201CAll the big noise about climate change, interviews from all sectors \u2026 when the reality is that they are all \u2018johnny-come-latelys\u2019. No-one is talking or asking the view of the indigenous people, Maori, Aborigine, Inuit, Native American, Papuan etc. We hold the key to the Earth\u2019s survival, and they dismiss you as you would a child who asks intuitive questions\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E Never one to shirk from a challenge, I thought it was only fitting to bring to the House a copy of the indigenous peoples\u2019 statement from the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change some 4 years ago, in November 2002. The statement refers to the sacred relationship with Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, mother Earth, that binds indigenous peoples to conserve biodiversity for the survival of present and future generations. The perilous state of the Earth, as we are challenged by global warming and climate change, is evidenced in the melting of the polar ice caps, the inconsistency of the seasons, the rising seas, food and water shortages, species extinction, and massive loss of lives and homes. Traditional ways of life are being affected by the damage caused by climate change, particularly in forest, wetland, river, and coastal areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESet against this wider international indigenous perspective, what will this bill do to make a positive difference to mother Earth, Papat\u016B\u0101nuku? In ratifying the Kyoto Protocol, Aotearoa has made the commitment to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to at least 5 percent below the 1999 levels from 2008 to 2012, and it could not have come a day sooner. The fact that we are the fourth-highest nation amongst developed nations in the emission of greenhouse gases is hardly something to boast about; nor is the fact that New Zealand\u2019s rate of emissions is growing significantly faster than that of Australia\u2019s, nor the fact that the rate of carbon emissions has increased faster than the rate of population growth and GDP, leaving us in the dubious position of our rate being more than twice the world average, and above the OECD average. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Climate Change Response Act 2002 to allow entities other than the Crown to hold accounts in the Kyoto Protocol register and to trade in emission units. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn my second reading speech I raised the issues associated with the actions of the Christchurch City Council, which has sold carbon credits to British Gas. There is, of course, a very significant contradiction inherent in the relationship of carbon credits to climate change. If we take the basic premise that climate change is about greenhouse gas emissions, surely the desired outcome is that emissions need to be reduced. If industry polluters are able to purchase carbon credits to offset their polluting emissions, yet still make no apparent effort to reduce emissions, surely the core problem remains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe hub of the problem is that most global warming over the last 150 years is attributable to human activity. The answer, therefore, lies in our human hands. All of us have a responsibility to do what we can to ensure that we assist this nation by not putting more carbon into the atmosphere than we are able to offset by other means. Indigenous peoples across the globe understand their role and responsibility as being unique in conserving Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, mother Earth, but it is not a duty that we hold exclusively. We in the M\u0101ori Party believe that if we are going to reverse, mitigate, or halt in their flow any of the catastrophes that stand to threaten Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, urgent and specific attention must be accorded this issue by all peoples of this land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe second major thrust of this bill is to extend the regulation-making powers of the Forests Act 1949. The proposal is to establish a mechanism to allow landowners to access the value of carbon from newly established permanent forest sinks. Such an arrangement created under the Kyoto Protocol may result in the promotion of afforestation for erosion control and other environmental concerns, and the promotion of forestry for economic development and employment promotion in particular regions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe are aware that Ng\u0101ti Porou Wh\u0101nui Forests is very keen for this bill to be supported, and it recognises that it and other iwi will be able to make income by trading carbon credits accumulated in their forest assets. It believes that it is able to make money before the harvesting of forests, which, as such, is a totally new income stream. Alternatively, it is able to make money by planting permanent forests on isolated or erodible land that is not suitable for farming and harvesting forests. To this end, of course, the M\u0101ori Party will support the priorities expressed by wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi in their aspirations for cultural, economic, social, environmental, and spiritual wealth. There is no greater goal for many of our people than for wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi to be actively participating and succeeding in the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut we draw the House\u2019s attention once more to the concept of the genuine progress index, which differentiates between positive contributions to progress, and negative activity. We are aware that forestry can be harmful to the environment. We understand that some hap\u016B and iwi have been undertaking research in forestation and deforestation that could be helpful in underpinning our future developments. What we know is that deforestation to create pasture lands and subsequent pine forests has caused a whole host of environmental problems for land and waterway ecosystems. Pine needles and sap are poisonous, allowing no secondary or tertiary forest-floor growth. Thus the natural layering found in indigenous forests, where other flora and fauna form part of the ecosystem, is not found. Pine is very much a mono-crop. After three rotations of pine, the ground has effectively been rendered sour and useless for any other crops for many generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are obvious implications for wh\u0101nau wanting to develop land-based sustainability. We must always bear in mind the checks and balances that come with any situation, and the cost of deforestation for future growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, I once more draw the attention of the House back to the indigenous peoples\u2019 caucus from the eighth session of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. In its statement the indigenous caucus concluded: \u201COur duty as indigenous peoples, to Mother Earth impels us to demand that we be provided adequate opportunity to participate fully and actively at all levels of local, national, regional and international decision making processes and mechanisms on climate change.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is proud to stand in the House to contribute to the debate and the discussions around climate change, and to vote in support of the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2d42bdc4de94ab2bae209be45d9bf87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2d42bdc4de94ab2bae209be45d9bf87\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on behalf of United Future in this third reading of the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill. United Future does not pretend to be able to predict all of the consequences and outcomes of climate change, but through the growing scientific and economic evidence we understand the risks of climate change and the need for a timely response to it. Climate change is, in truth, a global challenge, and through international and domestic cooperation it can be managed so as to mitigate its risks while providing, at least in the New Zealand context, a range of opportunities for environmental sustainability and social and economic development. The environment is our basic life-support system and must remain in good health. If people want to use the environment for outdoor recreation or economic development, or if they want simply to admire and appreciate it, then it must be used in ways that do not cause permanent widespread damage or compromise the ability of future generations to meet their own needs\u2014that is, in ways that are sustainable long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWe are very, very delighted indeed to see the Permanent Forest Sink Initiative contained in this bill. While creating an opportunity for further carbon sinks, the trees will also work to prevent soil erosion, the leeching of nitrates, and the excursion of stock into rural waterways. We want to see this legislation promote the planting of native trees and bush alongside, or close to, all inland waterways where practical, in order to act as carbon sinks, limit soil erosion, and reduce agricultural runoffs. We encourage landowners to return non-viable farming land\u2014and we have huge tracts of it in this country\u2014to native, regenerative forest in order to create carbon sinks. We also want to ensure that New Zealand producers of sustainably harvested timber products are not undercut by the dumping of imported timber and products that have been harvested without regard to sustainability criteria. I think it is really quite stupid that we continue to allow into this country large importations of timber that come from non-sustainable harvesting in overseas countries, in competition with timber grown sustainably in New Zealand. I believe that unless we change our policy in that regard, we are not part of the solution to climate change but are actually part of the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI want to make a couple of other brief points. Firstly, when we talk about planting trees and the afforestation of the New Zealand land, we are not talking about any particular type of tree. Native trees and exotic species should both be part of the mix. Indeed, we need to spread our risk away from Pinus radiata and look at other faster growing and therefore better carbon sequestering species\u2014such as, for example, eucalypts. I would also like to say that there is some scientific linkage now between pine trees, which we are good at growing, and biomass fuels. If, indeed, that science can be progressed, we could certainly have a win-win for New Zealand. Let us imagine that, from our own pine trees, we could actually produce quite a good proportion of our transport fuel needs. That really would be an ideal outcome, and we should strive to work towards it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI also mention that just the other day I talked with Dr Malahoff, who is the head of GNS Science\u2014a Crown-owned institute\u2014and one of New Zealand\u2019s leading scientists. He told me that GNS Science is currently working on a system of possible sequestration of carbon from our thermal electricity generating plants. I understand the idea is that the carbon would be captured and pumped into the now empty Kapuni gas well. I thought that was a quite striking\u2014and also scientific\u2014response to the question of climate change. I think the Government should give full support to that idea, because it could be a very important part of bringing New Zealand in the direction of the long-term goal of carbon neutrality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI agree too with the points that Jeanette Fitzsimons has made regarding transport. I think we need to spend more time identifying where the roadblocks are to shifting people out of cars and into buses and trains. We need to make sure that we have robust ways of doing that and come up with novel answers. For example, I have suggested in this House earlier that we need more car parking buildings at the railway stations in Auckland and Wellington, so that people can park-and-ride. We need to look at those practical realities as well, if we are to see the carbon emission goals be accomplished. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThis bill is a step in the right direction and has the wholehearted support of United Future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdcd41dc427e415f9e634d29f717f691\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdcd41dc427e415f9e634d29f717f691\u0022\u003EMARK BLUMSKY (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is nice to have a chance to participate in this third reading. As I indicated the other day when I spoke during the Committee stage, when members speak on areas that were not part of the select committee process that one has been involved in, one learns a lot of things one did not know. I suggest that I now know a lot more about forestry and its importance in the whole climate change debate, and very much understand the power of forestry as an effective method for sequestering carbon. I did not realise the power of a tree in regard to cleaning up the air.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EWhen I look at what this Climate Change Response Amendment Bill is trying to do, I can say only that we have to support it. What we are doing is putting in a mechanism that encourages and supports forest growth. It provides an opportunity for people to plant forests, because it will make a heck of a lot more sense to them to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EThe thing that surprised me when I looked at this bill was that I did not realise that originally National did not support it. In reading the report back from the Commerce Committee, I noted that Opposition members opposed this bill on the grounds that New Zealand should not be implementing the Kyoto Protocol ahead of our major trading partners. I know that the Minister took great delight the other day in trying to suggest that we were doing a major flip-flop. That is not the case, at all. We were very clear in our minds way back then that Kyoto was not delivering what it should, and that the fact that New Zealand would be writing a cheque for hundreds of millions of dollars for, maybe, the Russian mafia was a disgrace. On that reason alone we opposed the bill; it was not that we wanted to discourage the planting of forestry to clean up the air.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E We need to make sure we protect the green image of New Zealand. We need to lower our emissions. We absolutely need to keep the whole image of New Zealand being 100 pure on the world scale. What we do will not make a hell of a difference at the end of the day, to be perfectly honest; a heck of a lot bigger players on the world market, such as China, are making a bigger mess than we ever could. But is it not nice to stand tall? Is it not nice to show that, hey, we can make a wee difference, we can be leaders, and we can talk positively about where we are going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EIn talking leadership I take this chance to congratulate Nick Smith on his leadership in setting the agenda on this issue through A Bluegreen Vision for New Zealand, which he introduced the other day. It is a 30-page comprehensive document on the way forward. It was because of his leadership that the Prime Minister decided she had better try to pick up on this issue, which she did at the Labour Party conference the other day when she started talking up climate change. That was in response to the work done by Nick Smith and his leadership. The National Party filled the vacuum that had been very much left by the Labour-led Government. When Peter Neilson, a former Labour Cabinet Minister who is now the Chief Executive of the New Zealand Business Council for Sustainable Development, says that Nick Smith\u2019s blue-green vision for New Zealand is the most comprehensive environment plan for New Zealand to be produced by any political party in over a decade, one has to say that Nick Smith is setting the agenda and leading the country down a path it has to go down. Hence the desire of the Prime Minister to suddenly step up, take notice, and talk about what she calls the climate change crisis requiring comprehensive strategies. Here we are today, talking about a bill that was referred to the Commerce Committee in May 2005. How much for urgency, Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003ESo, not to prolong the debate, I just say I am proud to stand here and say that National members are supporting this bill. This will make a difference. It is part 1 of a many, many faceted, I am sure, strategic plan and delivery to make sure we keep New Zealand clean, show some significant leadership, and make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20061109ae77de51032043ee95d1a4ef0cec02d1000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224ff3e092-9caa-44d9-9171-5c8fca280d96\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"