"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a10f4fe7300640f39c594cab381ede0a\u0022\u003ETuesday, 20 February 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cdc935f2696a4ba993d6737e8a678bff\u0022\u003ETuesday, 20 February 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2.35 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b998d2c397bd4df893a9b36e42b051ad\u0022\u003EResignations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc8696f728754c9ba3fa0c8ddc1547ba\u0022\u003EGeorgina Beyer, Labour\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1b717215ba04fdcbfbdcdadac1ac26d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1b717215ba04fdcbfbdcdadac1ac26d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to advise the House that I have received a letter from Georgina Beyer resigning her seat in the House with effect on 16 February 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002232288e5527b84502bbe04f324c2f24b1\u0022\u003EList Member Vacancy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226659157b8146438890e40c87fd88ba37\u0022\u003EList Member Vacancy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00224a78e6e5ec0a47b79e8edc02db6571aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a78e6e5ec0a47b79e8edc02db6571aa\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have been advised by the Chief Electoral Officer that, pursuant to section 137 of the Electoral Act 1993, Lesley Frances Soper has been declared to be elected a member of the House of Representatives in place of Georgina Beyer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002200fa27c1f2ef4d3a8e4e88220dc1b081\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002255f12cb25d6d4576891f9300fabd6394\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000012\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker administered the Oath of Allegiance to Lesley Frances Soper, who then took her seat in the House.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e150f20d66724a479e2b4182cafb3c04\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022754022509952491d8ec21c6fbd392daf\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u2014Proxy Vote\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u002245cab3f015e24631be1c4c2211ef9175\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245cab3f015e24631be1c4c2211ef9175\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Through the media I understand that you have granted, using Standing Order 156(4), permission for the Labour Government to cast Taito Phillip Field\u2019s vote while he is not within the precincts of Parliament. If that is correct, I am interested in the reasons why that would be the case, because, to the best of my knowledge, Taito Phillip Field is not on parliamentary business\u2014I know he does a lot of business, but it is not of a parliamentary nature\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e5b2a4bfb84715b4bc14437f4044e4\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he goes with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022105c29adce7c47b4b7b82fb954a12321\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member can interrupt if she likes, but I would like to know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224423186ea9a34336b200050fa64b23a2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is speaking to a point of order. If there are any further interruptions, those members will leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217c93945904b420392493e8931e26796\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I would just like an explanation, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0e9c4c73a8e4f73b2874faf72a9979a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I think the first point to note is that I have not granted the Labour Party anything, but I have, in fact, exercised the jurisdiction I have under the Standing Orders in terms of proxy. But I understand the point the member raises, and for the interests of the House I shall give a ruling on the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EAs members are aware, party voting was introduced in 1996. It was soon appreciated that special arrangements needed to be made for parties consisting of one member and for Independent members of Parliament. Effectively, these had to be exempted from the general requirement to have a member present in the Chamber. From 1996 to 1999 there were, in fact, no requirements on Independent members at all. They could have proxy votes recorded for them regardless of where they were. In 1999 the present rule set out in Standing Order 156(4) was introduced. A proxy for an Independent member can be exercised only if the member is within the precincts, absent on select committee business, absent on other business approved by the Business Committee, or absent with the permission of the Speaker. In the case of the latter, the Speaker\u2019s permission may be granted for illness or other family cause of a personal nature, or to enable the member to attend any other public business, whether in New Zealand or overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003ESince that provision was introduced, three members have been given general approvals by the Speaker to have their votes cast by proxy in their absence: the Hon Peter Dunne in 2000, Tariana Turia in 2004, and the Hon Jim Anderton in 2005. I have given an approval to Taito Phillip Field in exactly the same terms as those approvals. Once the member has been given the approval it is for the member to judge whether the condition applies entitling him or her to have a proxy vote regarded. If, for example, there is no family illness, and the member is not attending to other public business, whether in New Zealand or overseas, the member should notify the person who holds the proxy that it is not to be exercised while that state of affairs continues. But no member has to account to the Speaker for how he or she uses their time away from this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u00227a04fabc4b5a47aa8265a7d9c8a10674\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a04fabc4b5a47aa8265a7d9c8a10674\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. This is of crucial importance because we know and believe that legislation will be before this House where the casting of this vote could make the difference between the legislation passing or not proceeding. It seems to me that we do have a problem. I can understand perfectly with the Hon Peter Dunne, the honourable Tariana Turia, and the Hon Jim Anderton, because all three were actually on parliamentary business. But we know that Taito Phillip Field is not on parliamentary business. I also understand that he is not ill. You are telling this House that if he does not fit those categories, his vote cannot be exercised if he is not here. Now the difficulty that we have is that in Parliament a piece of legislation could be hanging on that vote, the vote gets cast, but we are not certain whether, in fact, the criteria for Taito Phillip Field have been met, because we do not know the reason you have granted it. I think you have to be particularly specific and send a very strong message to this particular member that if he does not fit the category that you have set, which I guess has to be family cause of a personal nature, or illness, his vote cannot be cast unless he is here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022bff6fc5775df4f29ba1752f7ed4bb4bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bff6fc5775df4f29ba1752f7ed4bb4bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E This is an interesting matter but is one, of course, that does not apply to just Independent members; it applies to all members of the House. The criteria are not just for Independent members but apply to the exercise of a proxy vote on behalf of a party member, including, of course, that member who was absent all week from the House. He was absent on, as we know, business of a personal nature all that week, not public business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E The second point to make is that public business has a very wide interpretation\u2014it is not parliamentary business; it is public business. It is Standing Orders 156(4)(b) and 155(4)(c) that refer to parliamentary business. It is Standing Order 156(4)(d)(ii) that relates to public business. In the case of members who are not independent members, their proxy votes are cast on their behalf by their whips, or a person acting on behalf of the whip, on the basis of leave granted by the whip\u2014although, strictly speaking, that is with the permission of the Speaker, because it is understood that permission of the Speaker is operated by delegation to the party whips in that case. There is a very longstanding understanding in this House that members do not ask whether that has been properly exercised by the whips. I invite the member Rodney Hide to think very carefully about what would happen if, every time a proxy vote was cast on behalf of somebody, we had an examination of the precise reasons why that person was absent. I see Mr Power, who has been a senior whip, understanding perfectly well how unattractive that proposition would be in actual practice. It is a matter, in the end, between the member on whose behalf the vote is being cast, and the Speaker. It is a matter for the member to notify if in fact he or she is not absent on that business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cee3fdcd6c2b4f6c810dc60b1c1798d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cee3fdcd6c2b4f6c810dc60b1c1798d1\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I think it would be useful if you could define for the House exactly how you will interpret public business. If we are to believe media reports, we know that the Labour Party will be casting the proxy vote of Taito Phillip Field\u2014a person whom the Prime Minister described as immoral and unethical for his behaviour. It will be interesting to see whether you rule that somebody who was interviewed yesterday by the police and who could be in the dock facing significant charges falls within your ruling of being on public business. If you do not make that clear, I cannot see how the Labour members, who will be casting their votes, will understand it. The Prime Minister, if we are to believe her, thinks the actions of Mr Field have been unethical and immoral, and I cannot believe, if she believes that, that she will be casting his vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a72c1ca29a004cc7b90e42334f2a07e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a72c1ca29a004cc7b90e42334f2a07e3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, that point is an irrelevancy. Perhaps Mr Key will remind himself that a proxy vote was cast on behalf of Alamein Kopu for the National Party on a very large number of occasions, and that only a year or so back proxy votes were cast\u2014normally in line with the National Party\u2019s position on the issues in front of the House\u2014on behalf of Donna Awatere Huata, who was actually facing criminal charges and was subsequently convicted of them. The point he raises, unfortunately, may make for a bit of a smile in the media, but it is irrelevant to the Standing Orders and their interpretation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00220ff4e593a541498ab371dc53bade138c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ff4e593a541498ab371dc53bade138c\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, as someone who has been in the position that is being referred to, I want to pick up one or two of the comments that the Deputy Prime Minister has made, and to suggest a way through based on previous experience. When leave is issued by whips it is issued, effectively, on the authority of the Speaker. When leave is applied for to whips, normally some documentation accompanies the application\u2014in other words, a member wants to be absent for a particular purpose. Between 2000 and 2002, when I was the sole member for my party, the arrangement that I had with the previous Speaker was, because technically he was the whip who would grant me leave, that I would put retrospectively an application to him indicating the purpose for which I was absent on a particular day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, I suggest that in this particular case that may be an appropriate practice to follow, so that if there is any question, the member is required to have at least provided some documentation to you justifying the purpose for which he was absent; otherwise, we could have a situation where, effectively, nothing much is changed. So I do think there is a way through it based on previous experience. I think, Madam Speaker, that it would be appropriate for you to say to the member that you need some written documentation to cover the periods for which he is absent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u002296d94a688230426e9bb24ea7aa267d5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296d94a688230426e9bb24ea7aa267d5d\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Dr Cullen confuses the issue somewhat. When our vote is cast, it is cast under Standing Order 156(3), which I am sure Dr Michael Cullen is fully familiar with. He is using that to obscure the nature of what is at issue here with Standing Order 156(4).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EI go to the point that it is a very, very narrow set of reasons allowing the honourable Taito Phillip Field\u2019s vote to be cast. It is not the situation of a party\u2019s MP being away, which is not so narrow and which is set out specifically. The clear implication is that if these criteria are not met, the vote cannot be cast. The problem I have is that if we imagine the vote going to the Labour Party, we have Labour\u2019s whip interacting with Mr Field to get him to explain that, yes, he still meets these criteria. The difficulty I have with that is that the Prime Minister herself says that this man is immoral and unethical\u2014and, indeed, he is facing dishonesty charges. So he cannot be trusted, in the Prime Minister\u2019s view. I do not see how the Labour Party whip can exercise this vote, because Labour cannot guarantee that the criteria are being met. Those of us who might be opposing the particular legislation at issue, believing that the Labour Party does not have the numbers, have no way of assessing whether Taito Phillip Field can vote, because we do not know the criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288181c99f2f140c2a9278f31c6ee0f5f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. He is starting to be a little repetitious. If I could just address some of the issues members have raised. The first point I note is that no member has actual knowledge of the business of any other member when he or she is not in this Chamber. I would make that point and ask members to reflect upon it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EI also note Mr Dunne\u2019s point, and although he did that voluntarily, the other members did not. I am very happy, of course, to take up the matter with Mr Field, but I make the point that there is nothing in the Standing Orders that insists on that process or that the Speaker be responsible for it. I also note that if members are suggesting that the Speaker should inquire into the reason why any member is absent\u2014and it would have to apply to any member, to operate fairly\u2014then I think members should reflect on that. I am happy to consider it, but it would be a ruling on all members. My feeling at this stage is that such a ruling would have to be supported by a change in the Standing Orders. It may well be a matter that members wish to go to the Standing Orders Committee\u2014that every member in this House verifies, either through their whips or to me, that he or she is on parliamentary or public business when not in this Chamber, or is ill. Certainly, that has not been the position in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002226d977eae85d4514877ff6c0394573a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226d977eae85d4514877ff6c0394573a9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. As I indicated to you before Dr Cullen\u2019s second contribution to the point of order, I wish to bring to your attention the fact that Rodney Hide interjected on Dr Cullen\u2019s first point of order, after Rodney Hide had complained and you had indicated people were on their last warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222006637f3951486c8c88bff99a8a68fa\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I also noted that Gerry Brownlee did the same. [Interruption] Yes, he did! But the members were having a debate and discussion on this matter. We will start afresh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u00225aec8d34c8f04ecf900a6cf8d664d75d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225aec8d34c8f04ecf900a6cf8d664d75d\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am seeking just a little bit of clarification. Would it be fair to say that the rules surrounding proxy votes are fairly flexible? Have there not been cases of members dancing with the stars and dropping young women all over the floor, yet still voting by proxy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cfb8a1d702b4cb6a356397da2da81ba\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am not sure that is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a36f619570ac49c2bf63f3cfc00c0e9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a36f619570ac49c2bf63f3cfc00c0e9f\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether I could just take you back to Standing Order 156(4)(a) to (d), which is the part of the Standing Order that relates to Independent members. We are not talking about the situation where Mr Hide\u2019s party, or another political party, may have two or three members; we are talking about the situation where a proxy vote is being cast for an Independent member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003EI put it to you, Madam Speaker, that it is quite clear under Standing Order 156(4) that there are a number reasons why a legitimate proxy vote can be cast, and they are: \u201Cif the member concerned is\u2014(a) present within the parliamentary precincts, or\u201D, etc., etc., but under paragraph (d)(i) and (ii) the member may fall within two other particular reasons, which are an illness of a personal nature, or to attend to other public business. I say to you, Madam Speaker, that if the Labour Party, in casting that proxy vote, cannot understand whether Mr Field is on public business\u2014if he is, for instance, being investigated by the police, being absent as he is today, or is in a situation where he may well be in the dock\u2014then legislation cannot possibly be progressed. That situation may well occur in a second reading debate before we can progress any further in other debates. So it is simply not possible for Parliament to progress legislation when the Government relies on a one-seat majority, casting the vote of an Independent member who is going to claim to be away under the definition of public business when that public business is something that could legitimately be challenged by the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00225ac22ada515c4f26ac1f0a6bffdf1644\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ac22ada515c4f26ac1f0a6bffdf1644\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I think the member is trying to draw too long a bow by making, essentially, Standing Order 156(4), and the rest, apply only to Independents or to a party comprising one member. Standing Order 156(4) was put into the Standing Orders in 1999, effectively by the Standing Orders Committee as a codification of the understood rules around the granting of leave within political parties. But where, of course, there is one person, then nobody else can grant that leave other than the Speaker himself or herself. Therefore, it is perfectly legitimate to draw the conclusion from the origins of Standing Order 156(4) that it is understood that it applies in practice to all members of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIt is absolutely equally true that it is applied in such a way that it is broadly interpreted and, importantly\u2014as you said, Madam Speaker\u2014is not inquired into by other members of the House. That would be an endless process every time, as has been rightly pointed out for weeks recently. Mr Hide was absent merely for appearances in a television programme. The fact that he dropped the young woman did not turn the situation into a case of illness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u00220a594a9353d64a12b3d143e98ca08877\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a594a9353d64a12b3d143e98ca08877\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank members. The member is correct that the rationale behind that provision is that the person is an Independent, and there has to be a process. But the rationale is that the whips do, in fact, undertake that task. So if a different change in procedure is what is requested for an Independent member, then to be fair, for that to apply, the whips should be able to verify what is happening to other members, as well. I ask members just to reflect on that and, if they do wish that, then I suggest they raise it at the Standing Orders Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EThe last comment I will make is that it is for the member to be the primary judge as to whether he or she is on public business and, as the Standing Orders read, that is communicated to whoever holds the proxy. That is the state of the Standing Orders at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u00222e0943f1c5d547588c7a87becd95adee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e0943f1c5d547588c7a87becd95adee\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask you to clarify\u2014and I accept all the points that have been made\u2014whether the authorisation provided to the honourable Taito Phillip Field is valid through to the next election. Does the authorisation have a time period, or is it valid through to the next election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022185693d5b41b4a7faed1964b8744e086\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022185693d5b41b4a7faed1964b8744e086\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is until the Speaker wishes to withdraw it, which would be when I received an indication that the member no longer wishes that practice to take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7e99f4a728e4fe19464f332f3117c68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7e99f4a728e4fe19464f332f3117c68\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Just to go back to my earlier point first, the question we had for you is that if we cannot understand the definition of public business\u2014and I put it to you that Taito Phillip Field may not be able to understand the definition of public business\u2014then Taito Phillip Field himself will not know, if he is in the dock, whether he is in fact on public business. That is a very serious point\u2014if he cannot understand whether he is on public business, then he does not know whether his vote can be cast on behalf of the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003ESecondly, in the event that he is not deemed to be on public business, because he is in the dock and you do not deem that to be public business, then the question is what the sanction against Mr Field is in the event that his proxy vote is cast by the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e925a6c4c9194740a4897fc237917b5a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the Standing Orders stand, it is for the member to determine what is public business and what is not. If I were to give a ruling, then it would have to apply to all members. [Interruption] No, I am sorry\u2014unless the Standing Orders Committee came up with a different ruling, in which case it then is for the Speaker to interpret the ruling. Public business is, of course, a very wide term. Members themselves know that, and that is why it is for them to interpret it and to convey that to the member who is holding the proxy. As I indicated in response to Mr Dunne\u2019s comment, I am happy to talk to Mr Field about a process and procedure. But if I am to give a ruling on exactly what a definition is to be, then we are down the road where everybody has to comply with that, and there will have to be some ability to test it if it is challenged by any other member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002246e3cdc451a142c7af73827ea83b0b07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246e3cdc451a142c7af73827ea83b0b07\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The difficulty is that you are not seeing any middle ground here. The reality is that Standing Order 156(1) to (3) makes it clear that there is a role for whips in the organisation of Parliament\u2019s business. That authority given to whips comes not only from the fact that members sign up to a political party but also from the fact that the Speaker chooses to accept the honour of whips. Anyone who has been in that position knows the responsibilities that come with it. But this particular part was inserted because of Labour\u2019s outrage over the actions of Alamein Kopu and, perhaps, some others. So we now ask this question, Madam Speaker: are you saying that an Independent member simply notifies you, and that that therefore absolves you of any requirement under Standing Order 156(4)(d). Is that what you are saying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6c8991d544d473285f79d9eb68e7860\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please finish his point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226e444945d4e403a9febd552b04534d6\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: It raises the question as to what happens when the validity of the proxy is questioned in the House, because if it happened on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228855ab6974a240f1ba4f20a907ec53c8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I understand your point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022726ad2a5c9dd4f08a5f5ab73ae4ae32c\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have not finished my point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267540df47043485281344cbb2b0d7d2f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You have made the point at great length, and I appreciate it. The point is that the word of all members is accepted in this House, and that is the procedure I will be following in the future if no one produces any evidence, because there is nothing under the Standing Orders for that sort of inquiry or process to take place. And if it did, as I said, I accept the member\u2019s point about the whips, but I also accept that these rules are based on the assumption that just as one accepts the word of the whips, one accepts the word of all honourable members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00228e24d279d2534cb1943842286ab53bb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e24d279d2534cb1943842286ab53bb2\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77975c36ba94160b4ce71deb93b1fa9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If it is a new point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3d28f08a0cb4f4fa1d4f645e21e3984\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Does that not mean that you should at least have some idea of what Mr Field is doing from one part of a parliamentary day to another, in order that the whips who hold his proxy do not undergo a challenge as to whether the proxy is valid? That may tie Parliament up for an enormous amount of time. What is at risk here is the smooth and confident running of this place\u2014and all because Labour wishes to keep the vote of someone whom it has just flung out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a749018707ed443c800c291fd56d24e3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I have nothing further to add to the rulings I have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002221e46e65748349ea8895a0c034d61907\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cabf3681e1414d3cac02067e68dd252b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b80b7bfbd554c308244228cf5125fe5\u0022\u003EClimate Change\u2014Forestry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230f7114f24064e73980f038834baf5b3\u0022\u003E1. RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Following her statement to the House last week recognising \u201Cthe important contribution of forestry to climate change mitigation strategies\u201D, by how much can New Zealand forestry mitigate climate change, and what is the level of her Government\u2019s commitment to New Zealand forestry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00223f5777ee94424c92bddfccd13e461c8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f5777ee94424c92bddfccd13e461c8a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: The Government is very committed to New Zealand forestry playing a role in climate change mitigation. The extent of this, of course, depends on both the general levels of investment and disinvestment in the forestry industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecdc605c12724115a84d92649c981a0d\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did this Government remove the large part of the incentive that existed to plant trees during the 1990s by confiscating the forest owners\u2019 carbon credits that were recognised as a property right, the result of which has seen a slump in confidence in the forestry industry, with plantings falling from an average through the 1990s of 65,300 hectares of new forest to just 8,000 hectares, and the unprecedented result of the planted forest cover in New Zealand getting smaller each year rather than growing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb408c201454a4695b20225e544b620\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not believe everything Mr Dickie tells him. Firstly, the credits were created by the Kyoto agreement, and the vast majority of our forests pre-date that agreement. Those credits were an intrinsic property right of existing forests. They were created by Governments, and the liabilities pertained to Governments\u2014the credits are owned by Governments. That is the nature of the agreement. That is the most important point in that regard. Secondly, deforestation and a lack of planting have been caused not by that; they have been caused primarily by low prices for timber and high prices for dairying, which have incentivised, therefore, conversion from forestry to dairying, given that there is no penalty attached to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239fcf16ab314ee997e70f9796c60788\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: What initiatives have already been actioned or proposed to encourage forestry to play a constructive role?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270fc9c5824254486afab26072df44326\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Last year the Government launched the Permanent Forest Sinks Initiative. It is already attracting investments such as that from Ng\u0101ti Porou, which will alone sequester up to 75 million tonnes of carbon dioxide. There is also significant Government investment in the Forest Industry Development Agenda, and, of course, the proposals out for consultation include the possibility of cash grants or carbon credits for new forests planted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b626bcb88d245aa896cf5558f1b22da\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister excused the deforestation on the basis of changed economics rather than Government policy, when in the same period in which this Government has seen a 40,000 hectare deforestation Australia has been able, under exactly the same economic conditions, to expand its forest estate by 400,000 hectares; how does the Prime Minister equate all her rhetoric about carbon neutrality with New Zealand\u2019s appalling record compared with Australia\u2019s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3e557afc144a7fad8ade35172a3847\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member might well ask himself exactly the same question, given that between 1996 and 1999 forest plantings more than halved in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec044ef8b7843678dfcfa8da395fe13\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Will Dr Cullen\u2019s proposed incentives for exporters include specific measures to encourage the planting of new forests above and beyond current projections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc6a531aba224fc1ba1054ed965b4590\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is certainly looking at proposals to encourage new plantings of forest, because obviously additional plantings would be a significant contribution to meeting our Kyoto obligations. There is also a necessity to look at methods\u2014for example, the inclusion of \u201Ccap and trade\u201D systems\u2014that provide some kind of disincentive to deforestation and conversion to other land uses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022363828d8c3994ca58738534eac5e464d\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora t\u0101tou. Why is the Government on the one hand championing the climate change cause, then on the other hand using taxpayers\u2019 money for Landcorp to destroy 23,000 hectares of pine forest north and south of Taup\u014D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211cf97cf572345e4abb6670387d156bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That land is not owned by Landcorp. It is simply that Landcorp has the management contract for that process, which would have been carried out by somebody else if Landcorp had not carried it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe554f2b65dc4f709c93cdca15787afe\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government not just rule out the proposed deforestation tax, which is causing even more trees to be felled and making the climate change situation for New Zealand worse in respect of the balance; noting that the Government had to do a U-turn on both the carbon tax and the animal emissions levy, why does the Government not just cut its losses and back down now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cdb6b08477b439eab0850425145b81d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is always possible to be scared of ideas, but I would encourage the member to just dip his toe in the water occasionally and try the odd one, and to slither around a little before rejecting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0fae9acfa5c46e2851727c6c2e4d85f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad14593f39a4ae48f9fbc0527258973\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister add just a little more to his answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b8eec2144fd4b1b86fde33a119c3e86\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: What I am saying to the member, to put it bluntly, is that there is a discussion document out there. Some people are having a rational discussion; Mr Dickie is getting into a sort of foaming hysteria mode.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e9b770394f41e195f487022657cc7c\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: In having this discussion about ideas, has the idea ever occurred to the Prime Minister that when people plant trees, they look at the costs and at the returns, one of the returns they might be looking at being the fact that there is an expectation they will get a carbon credit per hectare worth thousands and thousands of dollars\u2014in fact, more than the cost of planting that hectare\u2014and one of the costs they might be thinking about when they plant a forest being whether they can convert it to something else without having to pay a tax to the Government of $13,000; or are the Prime Minister and the Government so out of touch with New Zealanders that they think those basic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220245a3b3f18c4439b122f0b2dfd0612a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You were away last week. You don\u2019t need to make up for it this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2001739b0e749b3b748a9f5743a4c51\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, please\u2014would the member ask a question and not give a speech. And we will not have unnecessary interruptions, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e12c905d834ca291a04c7316920ea9\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I know these simple ideas are hard to get across to this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b5e34f8305478b9892a86f2a7359b5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please just ask his question. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208b4f3a2d24e462a95767b92d84494fe\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: In speaking about ideas, has the idea occurred to this Government that when people are looking to invest in a forest, they do have a regard to the return and the costs, that a big part of the return that was expected in the 1990s was the carbon credits that had been widely touted\u2014indeed, credits the Government had promised would belong to the owner\u2014that one of the costs was what one could do with the land at the end of the forest\u2019s life, and that in terms of lowering that return and increasing that cost, this Government is the reason that trees are not being planted in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226addfc520ee44a138adaf4be11eac7e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Most of the trees that have been cut down were planted long before the Kyoto agreement. If the member really thinks that the people planting those trees thought they would get carbon credits for an agreement that did not exist, then he thinks those people showed an enormously large understanding of the future. But the member might well ask himself the question whether, if trees can be cut down and the land converted to higher polluting usages, and there is no cost at all attached to it, that encourages disinvestment in forestry and conversion to other land uses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb64b4e213440aaa8db0b46ec9e9150\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is the suggestion that property rights attach to carbon credits inconsistent with the viewpoint taken by other parties that no property liability attaches to existing emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285616141ba834a368ddde701b8cfa9c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is indeed a very, very good point. But as usual, of course, what we are hearing from the Opposition is that one capitalises one\u2019s gains and socialises one\u2019s losses. That is a longstanding tradition of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c73090d3c0ce4778a05518037c049509\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does, then, the Prime Minister disagree with Mrs Gillian Robertson from the New Zealand Anglican Church Pension Board, who wrote about its forests: \u201CNo wonder forest owners are desperately cutting at present, even at losses, with the Government threat of owners having to pay a levy equal to more than what the current harvest is worth.\u201D? That is what Mrs Robertson and the Anglican Church Pension Board are writing, and the board actually owns trees, unlike this Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1c3b221705494aa75c8f1bfa2f80ec\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: With all due respect to members of the Anglican Church Pension Board, I say that if all new ideas had been rejected in the first place, the Anglican Church would never have existed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a7675b7c31646ccb7899cef6ed3c5df\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that when this Minister gets into trouble, he tries to get out of it with a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299864bb969df422288aee341d776a1e3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba17454844594b0b824ca3ec163140ed\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: It is a point of order, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276b6234e1dd947689920e455e7183692\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a point of order, so would members please just settle. I know we started late today and it is a little different from usual, but would the member please make his point of order succinctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c20c096608447dafb4354dad2847b6\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I know that when this Minister is in trouble, he gives smart alec comments about the pension board\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b492bae8a194fefa3bb9461f097aeb2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is not a point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267bd9943639b483693c41438e7c4b3b7\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but they cannot be an answer to the question. The Minister said to this House that he wanted to debate the ideas. We are putting up the ideas and the experience of people who are actually growing trees, yet all we get is abuse of the people we refer to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fdf4cf7f8914444b25807de6f29b343\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister to further address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91821e6674940d79f73eb0fc265f129\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Let me put it again, in a somewhat different way, for the benefit of the member. If there is no penalty on deforestation and conversion to land uses that have a higher value otherwise, then there will be a strong economic incentive to deforestation. That is what the current economic position is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fbd6ce4ce84e4fb9a490c21197530973\u0022\u003ECarbon Neutrality\u2014Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ebcaa376bb64502a1202f3b65c17e1a\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement that New Zealand \u201Ccould aim to be carbon neutral\u201D; if so, by what date does she think this could be achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00225df484622eec4af1b2ff14e2753d662e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225df484622eec4af1b2ff14e2753d662e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes. But she is not prepared to put a date on our first achieving that goal. She is confident that consistent progress can be made towards that target.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229877611a6a4d4482ba45e540e47edb08\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think it is consistent with her statement that New Zealand could be carbon neutral that this very month her Government is firing up the massive E3P gas turbine, the second-biggest greenhouse gas emitting power station ever built in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e33f8f5d4cc94a9db0ec0203544df4b7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the member that his colleagues only a year or two back were calling for the Government to accelerate progress on various thermal power stations around the country because of what they described as an electricity supply crisis around the country. This flip-flop, of course, is consistent with the member\u2019s flip-flop on global warming itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022781de5bb4cde405aae648588c5ae1595\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any evidence that others are committed to achieving the goal of carbon neutrality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7fccf4d93aa4001bb4cd7d0dafb5522\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly. I believe that many in the House are committed to that. Obviously, the Green Party, and, I believe, also United Future and New Zealand First, are committed to goals of this variety. From the National Party we have had a lot of empty rhetoric, but when asked by the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues to engage in solutions the National Party refused to come to the table. National always prefers the problem we have to the solution we do not have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a13a4eb2b54f5cb35ad26e17a40821\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree that the electricity sector could be the first to be carbon neutral, without it even having to purchase any offsets, by moving over the next couple of decades to 100 percent renewables except for dry years and emergencies; if so, is that what Minister Parker will be telling Gerry Brownlee in response to question No. 10?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d32d544c10f4464eb57fba06cc0bbe42\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know what Mr Parker will be telling Mr Brownlee in answer to question No. 10, but the member is certainly correct that the ambition is to move to reliance upon renewables for normal baseload activity, but, of course, thermal capacity will still be required for firming activity, and, given the nature of much of our renewables, that will mean a quite considerable amount of thermal generation capacity will still need to be maintained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224417862462404fe99c73bd2b299882fd\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that E3P has a projected life of 40 years, that it is set to emit about half a million tonnes of carbon dioxide every year, and that those emissions will far outweigh any of the announcements of policies she declared last week in her statement of intent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de44aa271e4242629096c6322a89d863\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: We should look at those kinds of questions in the light of the net impact. The commissioning of E3P, with the commissioning of additional renewables generation over the next 10 to 15 years\u2014there is a considerable amount of that on the agenda at the present time\u2014will enable less efficient thermal generation to be taken out of capacity, thereby reducing net emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b13cc939737f4676bd425d12b2e9af0a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister received any letter from the Leader of the Opposition indicating National\u2019s opposition to firing up E3P?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb90d73bc35d42c1bb15e1bf15338bdd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all, but then, of course, the Leader of the Opposition at one stage said that climate change was a complete and utter hoax, and now he says that the results could be catastrophic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022275ccb82b7da48f8bac23f3d5704727e\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister be specific and put the whole issue into perspective by saying whether, in terms of addressing climate change, the most effective approach would be to have the USA, China, and India achieving some modest reduction in their greenhouse gas emissions, or to have New Zealand becoming carbon neutral; if it is the former, can she tell us what pressure New Zealand is exerting upon the USA, China, and India to address the issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298222404d85f45feb71f91a55735e97a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has consistently supported extending the Kyoto Protocol agreement to the widest possible group of nations. It believes very firmly that those who at present are not within Kyoto will need to be brought within some kind of post-Kyoto agreement\u2014notably, of course, India and China, and, obviously, the United States, as the largest emitter in the world at the present time, needs to be brought in, too. But members should remember that many United States states are already taking quite significant action in this regard\u2014particularly, California.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8cc5a5750d4e229ecd2df23c93a8d2\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: With regard to New Zealand\u2019s emissions, does the Prime Minister agree that the only way the agricultural sector, which is New Zealand\u2019s single biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions, can approach carbon neutrality is to decrease animal numbers, in direct contradiction to what is happening now; and given the recent statement made by Frank Brenmuhl, the Chairman of Dairy Farmers of New Zealand, that farmers will grow bananas if they need to, instead of cows, what is the Government doing to encourage them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022023f15dd419a44cc9baac3f723a9f1be\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I will try to be as gentle as I can: to grow bananas in New Zealand would require an awful lot of electricity in order to provide sufficient warmth, and that probably would increase the level of global warming, rather than reduce it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e842af72ff14ca78eb2659edda1846e\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that the problem with the Prime Minister\u2019s statements is that she is running around trying to convince the country that she even seriously half-believes in New Zealand becoming carbon neutral when at the same time she is offsetting that by firing up E3P, which is something to do with security of supply; and that maybe the reason the National Party does not oppose E3P is that we firmly have our eye on the ball of both security of supply and a realistic long-term target for climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270d54da364784e6e88e6958f5103f541\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The wonderful thing now is that Mr Key can manage a flip-flop between one supplementary question and the next supplementary question, even on E3P.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9dd291d601248f1a47733ce17cd02eb\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House exactly what the carbon footprint is of Treasury, the Inland Revenue Department, and the other four departments that the Prime Minister announced last week would be carbon neutral?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f5f1d40f79e46d2bf9f11cb225389fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The carbon footprint of Treasury is, obviously, rather low, and that of the Inland Revenue Department is somewhat higher, but that does not mean to say the Government should not begin with its own organisations in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc25cbe605364c1da093f43c19b4dddc\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister having stated her welcome support for the Waste Minimisation (Solids) Bill in Parliament last week, will she be encouraging her Cabinet to watch tonight\u2019s premiere of TV3\u2019s WA$TED!, which \u201Ctakes your average household of eco-horrors and turns it into a clean green haven\u201D, so that all ministries can reduce greenhouse gas emissions and cut waste?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e5675416cb44214861ccb0c8cc5119e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If the documentary was about how to turn each house into a clean Labour haven, then I am sure we would all be watching it with a great deal of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa2aef08ad66454e81ae217911588cb0\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the situation that the Prime Minister has not got a clue what the carbon footprint of the Inland Revenue Department, Treasury, and the other Government departments is; that the reason she promoted it last week was that it was about all she could think up; and that if she had not claimed that New Zealand would be carbon neutral, she would not even have bothered to suggest those things, because the savings\u2014compared with those of E3P\u2014will be absolutely next to nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525980971df142c9aeac836df7644419\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is prepared to put down a specific question, I will give a specific answer. The Prime Minister is certainly aware the Government has a Fruit in Schools programme, and did not run around as the \u201CMuesli Bar Kid\u201D before finding out that that was the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209278070-a54a-41e9-8a27-45166301277e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cdb9283923b47f897654df86e297ecf\u0022\u003EJeanette Fitzsimons\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept the widely reported conclusions from international research that building new roads increases vehicle miles travelled, and tends to reduce the use of public transport and cycling; if so, why is her Deputy Prime Minister promising to boost carbon dioxide emissions with \u201Cthe biggest ever road building programme this country has ever known\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f48bd30b00480b8a23ce74c1290cc3\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister\u2019s splendid deputy is proposing that for a number of reasons. Firstly, new roading is needed for safety reasons. Many of our roads lack hard shoulders, lack passing bays, and lack other mechanisms that would reduce our road toll, which, while it has come down dramatically in the last 20 years, is still higher than that of many other developed countries\u2014that is, in human lives. Secondly, and specifically in the Auckland area, improvement in the roading network is likely to have benefits in terms of traffic moving more quickly, but in particular, of course, in many areas we also need better traffic mechanisms for buses. As I have said to the member many times\u2014and I will keep repeating\u2014whatever happens in terms of upgrading rail, buses will remain the main mode of public transport in Auckland. For very simple, geographical reasons, there are only two main railway lines in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec5bcef7ba424de5a1d321b45b7e837c\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What is the precise carbon footprint today of the Inland Revenue Department, Treasury, and the four other Government departments that the Prime Minister outlined last week; is the answer that the Prime Minister does not know\u2014the same position she had last week\u2014and would not have a clue what the impact on New Zealand is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222946fe3f81b8457ca944e0a4d979c6aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is capable of telling me what the carbon footprint of the National Party is, she might be able to tell him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022279bbc2765b04343b3ca39b15a7a4cc4\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I asked the Prime Minister in question No. 4 and question No. 6 what the precise carbon footprint is. The Deputy Prime Minister got up and said: \u201CWell, if the member wants a precise answer\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e329689dfe4a4bbeca3c2d2790a509\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I take the point. Would the Minister please further address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7b544c10a444692959cb0f755e166be\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I thought we were on question No. 2, not questions Nos 4 and 6. Obviously, the member\u2019s supplementary questions are all numbered for him so that he does not get them mixed up along the way. If the member cares to put down a specific question, I will try to provide\u2014[Interruption] No, I ask him to put down a specific question, in writing, and in the morning. Bill English will write it for him\u2014as he usually does\u2014and we will try to provide an answer for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b818b7118554327bb236ad0a818151e\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We asked a precise question. The Deputy Prime Minister told us that he would be happy to give the precise answer. Surely, if it was in the statement of intent last week, he would know what the exact answer is and he would not need me to put down a written question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ba96872ed24633ad329b9fce965134\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f172c1b19209439c89669f04fba4da53\u0022\u003EForeshore and Seabed\u2014Legislative Framework\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a924c59c81543468742f655827a3be7\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Deputy Prime Minister: What reports, if any, has he received on proposals to change the legislative framework relating to the foreshore and seabed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00226a5f40d5ee5741058c951f38b86fe60d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a5f40d5ee5741058c951f38b86fe60d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I have received a number of reports relating to a proposal to repeal the existing framework and re-vest the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, effectively holding that subject to subsequent legal claims. This proposal is in the bill being promoted by the M\u0101ori Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225125952e42df4922a8a1a2733433309c\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on support for this proposal? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220789c095cd434a329507587629f4d8f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question, as Mr Power said. I have seen a report suggesting that the bill needs to be considered by a select committee, a report claiming that this was never said, and, finally, a report saying that the bill will not be supported at all. All three reports are attributed to the leader of the National Party, Mr John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6e8e66fea1247a2a06f1bef56f04a12\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. What does the Minister have to say about the statement from Jock Brookfield, Emeritus Professor of Law at the University of Auckland, that the legislative framework relating to the foreshore and seabed was a gross overreaction to the June 2003 Court of Appeal decision, which \u201Cheld that M\u0101ori customary communal title in areas of sea land (of foreshore and seabed) could exist at common law.\u201D, and that \u201Ccustomary title is a species of legal property and should not be taken by Parliament without full compensation determined by an independent authority.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de156bd770ce4b149d18a422bfc0ff3d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I thought the article by Professor Brookfield was very interesting, but I think it was unfair in one key and important respect: any group has the right to go to the High Court, which has the inherent jurisdiction in customary law matters in any case, for a declaration that, but for the passage of the Act, territorial customary rights existed\u2014that is, in language he uses, customary title. If that declaration is made by the High Court, the Crown must enter into negotiations with the claimants for redress, and any agreed redress must be taken back to the court for confirmation. Alternatively, of course, the Crown can enter into direct negotiations with groups that it believes have such territorial customary rights and then proceed back to the court for the registration of an agreement. That is happening with Ng\u0101ti Porou, Wh\u0101nau-a-Apanui, and Ng\u0101ti Porou ki Hauraki, and excellent progress is being made in those discussions. I think the member may be surprised at what comes out of those discussions. I think New Zealand as a whole will be pleased to see the kind of balance that, in fact, the Foreshore and Seabed Act is capable of producing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b366007600a9459fb4718205c8c6e0e8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022b26e71af4ab640d5ace88d531ff2a086\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b26e71af4ab640d5ace88d531ff2a086\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for this question to be held over until the Minister of Corrections appears in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4f4f2350fd34fe7a3ea97ee5cce2c9f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c909cc819416490ba042ed37b010038d\u0022\u003ECorrections, Department\u2014Confidence \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f167124ac7249d79831e3cfe237cfe5\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Does he have confidence in his department; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u00222587b793f02e432cbeff241a323207eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222587b793f02e432cbeff241a323207eb\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister of Corrections)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Corrections: Yes, but there is always room for improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022152cdf03d7f5468bb43d0f06bb35c580\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: What does it say about the culture of his department when a former employee has alleged, on National Radio this morning, that smuggling of contraband by guards at Rimutaka Prison \u201Cwould not have occurred without management knowledge of it, and they had knowledge of this for a long time, and the fact is they chose not to act.\u201D; and is that why several guards have had to go to the media before the Minister is prepared to do anything about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085b220dfc914dcd900b7cb300fe7bcd\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: On 22 November last year the department\u2019s chief executive appointed a barrister and two former police detectives to independently investigate allegations by ex - staff members. Since then further allegations have arisen and are being addressed by the inquiry. Allegations arising more recently\u2014as of today\u2014by a former staff member are not new. She was interviewed last year and the independent investigator is also looking into those matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4059ddd61834b99be30d2926ba70aed\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say about the allegations made by a former employee on radio this morning about the way in which his department has treated whistleblowers \u201Cand the depth that they\u201D\u2014the department\u2014\u201Cwill go to, to try to discredit people and to cover up these matters.\u201D, highlighted by the case of one guard who was attacked by an inmate and was left to fend for himself by other guards because he did his job, by conducting proper cell searches and reporting contraband? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d0f8b9ec2a442ad8b04adb72e10f98a\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: All allegations are treated seriously and the investigation will inquire into all those matters. The Minister will be able to comment on them when the investigation has been completed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249067d3d365e40f1baf117558cdc0329\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: How can the public believe that he is in touch with what happens in prisons, when they hear Andy Coward, a former guard with a PhD in psychology and 20 years\u2019 experience working at prisons on four continents, say that the prison system in New Zealand is \u201Ca disgrace and a joke\u201D and \u201Cthe most despicable thing I have ever seen\u201D; and all the Minister can say, publicly, is \u201CTalking with Barry, there may have been some slackness.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c77b1c4867d5420a96c6bff129344ac9\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, all the allegations are subject to an investigation. The results will be made public, in the public interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eefe47e16678412aba10c939c2374682\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement yesterday that corruption amongst prison guards is not a widespread problem, when the Department of Corrections now admits that guards have been smuggling contraband to inmates at Rimutaka; when officers at Arohata and Wellington prisons have also resigned while being investigated for corruption; when last month he ordered an inquiry into corruption by guards at Rotorua District Court, after the department\u2019s chief executive said he would not investigate; when guards report that cellphones and P are rife at Waikeria Prison; and when an inmate reports that P is being consumed openly in the exercise yards at Mount Eden Prison; and what is going on in his department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741082a4be6e4132a9da8bd10cdef574\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: Once again for the benefit of the member, all these allegations are subject to investigation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3a5518b8db944199f1cab0f3c7ae821\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that Barry Matthews, the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections, enjoys the confidence of the Government and is, according to the Prime Minister, \u201Can exceptional chief executive\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227f6fcb5a7314fed8551b08f1bb161d8\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with the statement of the Prime Minister, who said that Barry Matthews is an exceptional chief executive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d0b6b543e244b4c8b7ca17841cfdf1a\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister intend to communicate with Labour members of the Law and Order Committee regarding their vote on National\u2019s quest for a wide-ranging inquiry into this hugely dysfunctional department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c423f76060944c72a7456d924ddfd699\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: There is currently an investigation into all allegations. That is the Government\u2019s position right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228dec65545474f04a38ba819269598d9\u0022\u003EFamily Violence\u2014Departmental Advice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226335fdbc503548b8bd53df702d0987f2\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What advice, if any, has she received from the Minister for Social Development and Employment or other Government agencies about the policies needed to curb the rise of family violence in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00226e4ce11270f94067809fca059d987ba4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e4ce11270f94067809fca059d987ba4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: The Prime Minister has received many reports from the Minister and from Government agencies on this matter, including, of course, the advice from the Justice and Electoral Committee that there is an urgent need to repeal section 59 of the Crimes Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f8fd868da548ed9be9889058697930\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister share the concern of many, many New Zealanders that rising family violence is now virtually endemic and relentless, and that the time has come for action rather than talk; and instead of calling for more reports, will she bring together groups like Plunket, the Families Commission, and Barnardos, which have an interest in this area, to develop a strategy for concerted action that this Parliament can have within the next 3 to 6 months to act upon to curb this mounting problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211306f9441244b06b58baca7b86ca47f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: A great deal of that has already occurred, and a number of initiatives are under way right now. There will soon be a very major programme designed to change community attitudes towards violence and abusive behaviour\u2014$11.5 million will go into the community prevention programme. The family violence prevention social service in last year\u2019s Budget received very significant increases in its funding, and there is funding of $14.8 million going towards the Strategies with Kids - Information for Parents\u2014SKIP\u2014programme, which funds some 89 community groups to teach positive parenting and alternatives to physical discipline. At the end of the day this is a community issue, a community problem, and the Government has to work with communities to try to seek solutions to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022579b972929a543bf9ffe70c762b63b9c\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept that the perception of many in the community is that, despite the initiatives referred to in the earlier answer, the problem is mounting and is close to getting out of control, and that many New Zealanders are sick and tired of every Monday morning waking up to hear of the latest horrific attack that has occurred on children in a New Zealand family; if she does accept that proposition, how does she see the nexus being broken between what look like worthy programmes, on the one hand, and a mounting public concern that nothing much is happening, on the other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a0f53e2d0624f93ad7529c9a3a5cb53\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: What that comes down to is a number of very difficult issues. Clearly there is mounting public concern. That can be seen as a good thing, in the fact that the public is less accepting of family violence than would have been the case 25, 20, or 15 years ago, when people commonly made remarks that accepted some levels of family violence as being normal. It is not clear that overall there are actual increases in the levels of family violence\u2014there is always the problem of how much of the increase is from reporting changes and how much is from actual change in the incidence of family violence. What the House and the Government can do is make those moves that are within their competence. This House has a chance next Wednesday to make one very clear statement\u2014that it does not support the current section 59 of the Crimes Act, under which kids have been beaten with large lumps of wood, riding crops, and what have you, and people have not been convicted because section 59 provides an excuse for that. It is a simple thing. I will not argue about some of the details of the bill itself, but I state quite clearly to vote for the second reading so that the House can then work through some of the detailed issues subsequently. If the National Party votes against the bill en bloc, as it has said it will do, then the public will draw a conclusion about what that means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278dd71259cbe40efa8af1692a7f19fcc\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that reporting of family violence has doubled in the last 10 years, and does she agree that increases in reporting of family violence should be encouraged? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c7f485e8374fcda3423138c475e1c2\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: For goodness\u2019 sake!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e3a36ac5bd4368b25c45412798798e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition spokesperson says \u201CFor goodness\u2019 sake!\u201D. The Minister is quite right. Incidents of family violence should be reported. It is only by getting more and more reporting of what is actually occurring that the community as a whole can make its own statements about the unacceptability of family violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab946a1ce3ae45cd89f8719218ead5d2\u0022\u003EHospitals\u2014Productivity\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a559b51a2914d8eb4e5ed87b49f73b5\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he satisfied with the level of hospital productivity and why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022240d0a8dc3ba4700a213cabe2b5def68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022240d0a8dc3ba4700a213cabe2b5def68\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I regret I cannot answer the member\u2019s question because we cannot yet reliably measure productivity. However, we are making good progress in developing a variety of productivity indicators for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c67be6430e4e769bda6ac194bd6ed8\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: What is wrong with the health system when official Treasury reports calling for value for money in the health sector show that hospital performance has plummeted during Labour\u2019s term in office, with the reports suggesting that almost $3 of extra spending is now needed to get $1 of extra benefit for Kiwi patients?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b82b9e7db543118df66839d13ef593\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member, as usual, selectively quotes. What the Treasury report found was not that productivity has gone down, up, or sideways, but that productivity is difficult to measure. Let me just quote back to the member the substantive finding from the paper in question. Treasury states: \u201CThis research is useful as a case study that underlines how little is known about public sector activity.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293df906e8e8847c2b9ef3f067586b3c6\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that productivity means having fewer staff working harder for longer, or does the Government take a more enlightened approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9c829d751d448a7a1e3d719c747cc54\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The latter, I can assure the member. During the 1990s the National Government\u2019s view was that productivity was about putting a competitive market model at the core of the health system, shifting costs on to individuals through part-charging, and deflating salaries. National\u2019s aim was to have doctors and nurses running ever faster down corridors. The Labour-led Government, however, knows that achieving higher productivity involves better training, better facilities, and better technology. We are delivering just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a058efe443a42c89d7a86111f7f1733\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read the Treasury report that states quite distinctly that hospital efficiency has fallen by 8 percent in a 3-year period, and, further, has he seen the Treasury report that states: \u201CAlthough there has been an increase in staff numbers, hospital outputs have not increased commensurately.\u201D, and \u201COutput per full-time doctor and nurse has reduced.\u201D; and could he explain to the House how come we have more doctors and nurses but less treatment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244ad0c3127a441f88cf27458909d2c62\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member quotes selectively. He has not read out to the House the blizzard of caveats around the finding that the data may be wrong, that the quality may have improved, etc. In other words, for example, Treasury measured how many people were discharged from hospital but did not measure how many of them went on to live. Some of the things about productivity need to be examined a little more carefully than the member would have us believe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eac446d3a1743609dd5f5cdae534c33\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How is it that Labour can put $4 billion extra into the health system and deliver fewer elective operations, fewer specialist appointments, and fewer day-stay operations, and call that a success?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb1eac3cfb104c8d969932400ad23528\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member straightforwardly makes it up as he goes along. I can say to the member, for example, in the totality of medical discharges, that it has increased by a third or more since the change of Government\u2014and that is the bulk of the work that goes on in our hospitals. The member makes assertions repeatedly in the belief that someone will believe him; I do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce3108ba5853458da56a081dc24d83eb\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that New Zealanders can be confident that the substantial additional resources that have gone into the health system have produced the best results for citizens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bf564b1b2f04663bff75ccd93458c7a\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member now makes a good point, which is that if we cannot measure productivity in our health system\u2014or, indeed, elsewhere in our public sector\u2014then we should attempt harder to do so. This Government does not lack initiative in this regard. We are keen to measure productivity. We want to know that the taxpayer\u2019s dollar is spent in the best way, and, in the case of the health system, I will repeat to the member that we are making good progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4aeedda92f47f68e65312a6ba8ef5f\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement: \u201COne of my priorities for the health sector is achieving value for money \u2026\u201D, and can he explain how employing 2,000 extra hospital managers and administrators in the last 6 years is giving New Zealanders value for money for that extra $4 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a371a7b17544ad7a18f9351faef39be\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member quotes selectively. He says that we have this number of managers and administrators, but forgets to tell the House that on top of that we have 5,000 more doctors and nurses. I wonder which of those administrators the member would not employ. Would the member not employ the administrator who pays the staff? Would the member not employ the administrator who rings people to come in for the out-patient clinic? Would the member not employ the administrator who records the work done so that we can measure productivity? Which of those administrators would the member not employ, and would he like to tell the House whether the health system would be better off for that? The long and short of it is that this health system is bigger and better than it was when he was in Cabinet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edd9d52704f34a8581a27ea9b56c48d1\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the fact that the Government says that there is no problem, I seek leave to table nine detailed reports from Treasury showing that there is less being produced with more under the Hodgson health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293153ac0c3bc4004afbcac312397a056\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220771be21b404269bada2497935a0d3d\u0022\u003ERates Rebate Scheme\u2014Response to Expansion\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205f81d3934af442c98e5f4f16cb0456e\u0022\u003EANN HARTLEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Has he received any reports on the response to the Government\u2019s expanded rates rebate scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022c88e22a523b7477d9f12aa469b358f1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c88e22a523b7477d9f12aa469b358f1a\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, indeed I have. I can advise the House that as of yesterday\u2019s date, local authorities have received $41,276,000 of rates rebates from this Government for the rate-paying Kiwi households around New Zealand. This compares with just $696,389 paid out in rebates for the whole of the 2005-06 financial year, which was for just 4,200 households. This represents a sixtyfold increase in Government funding so far this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c490230ffc402ab5889f9574e5ca6d\u0022\u003EAnn Hartley\u003C/span\u003E: How the does the average rates rebate granted to date compare with the average rebate for the previous financial year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3acb48b53e4399904b6c994fa4cd2c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He just said that! He just answered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e49f7a9a6ec4e56861e2c9094a8e7a6\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith clearly was not paying attention, but I am happy to inform him that as a result of the maximum allowable rebate increasing from $200 to $500, the average rebate to date this financial year is $448, compared with just $165 for the 2005-06 financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022961eb109887349b7836bb5f9f8099cb7\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2014Deputy Chief Executive\u0027s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246fca49b7571472ebb26cb0dd05bc72e\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he agree with the statements of Bali Haque, Deputy Chief Executive of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, that \u201CThe examinations and marking process have gone smoothly\u201D and that \u201Ccandidates will have robust and reliable NCEA results earlier than ever before.\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3a145e4bb964389b946cb4c5c148fb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3a145e4bb964389b946cb4c5c148fb3\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; this year, students sat 1.9 million papers marked by 1,920 markers and watched over by 4,000 exam supervisors. Students received their National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) results online and in the post on 17 January, a full week ahead of last year due to system improvements. Schools have now also received 2006 NCEA interim national data\u2014more than 1 month earlier than in 2005\u2014and that allows schools to get on and plan their year and analyse their statistics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210d512079fce4d25a2236d859b2e58ce\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister imagine the shock felt by top student Anna Wing of Northland, who found \u201CNot Achieved\u201D on her results slip when her return paper marked \u201CMerit\u201D stated the opposite, and explain to her why, despite two requests, she cannot get any corrected provisional results from the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, which she wants for her university course?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228306a72c505e4f27a4dfb87fa480bda2\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As the authority has been saying, there are individual cases. If the member gives me that one straight after question time, I will fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258ed0ac74b6241fb9a776d2759ff26ce\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister ever known a year in which there were not some glitches with external examinations, despite the fact that the past system had no internal assessment in year 12; has the Minister ever known a year in which there have been fewer glitches than in 2006, despite 1.9 million papers having been required to be marked?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a54eed9e3ba04b678fabf6afe5109e59\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The member, of course, has a great deal of experience in the schooling system in New Zealand and therefore would know that there have been massive improvements in this system. That is the point he is seeking to make. I have also had a large amount of experience in marking as well, and I know that there are always individual issues, such as the one raised by Katherine Rich just now, and if she had bothered to phone me before question time that problem probably would have been fixed by now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eb5b8c0fc4148d7866c67d76a46a4c0\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Can he understand how the frustration felt by Jeremy Moroney of the Hawke\u2019s Bay, who had \u201Cresults not available\u201D for calculus on his slip, turned to anger when the paper returned was clearly marked and graded, and he too could not get the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to send out revised provisional results so that he could send them to his engineering course?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022122cd5804b544065a8270f445c9c4fad\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I have from the New Zealand Qualifications Authority a four or five-page list of individual cases; out of 1.9 million scripts one would expect that each year. This has improved dramatically each year of the NCEA, and I expect it to carry on improving. I say to the member that if she has individual cases that are still outstanding she could either pick up the phone and ring me, or ring the chief executive, who has invited anybody in the country to do that if he or she has an individual case, and the problem will be fixed as rapidly as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f72b8fce61cf478ebb881b57dee061f5\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Why should it take the raising of this issue to a Minister by a member of Parliament when these kids have attempted to phone the New Zealand Qualifications Authority themselves to sort it out; and when the authority has made mistakes does the Minister think these students deserve better service than the dismissive response they have received from the authority, which just glibly says that mistakes happen and directs them to a website that does not have any of their internal marks on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbc436dab1b04c0a9cd7d04a44180132\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: On the first point: of course, it does not require this matter to be resolved in this way. The authority has been very clear about the fact that it will fix individual problems. I have now invited the member to give the problems to me and they will be fixed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205a9627fb6524fdb8248357e2ac1731d\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Will he instruct the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to find some way of getting a full set of correct provisional results to these students, and to those from other schools such as Avondale College and Logan Park High School, so they can send them to their tertiary providers or put them on their CVs, because the authority is telling them that they will have to wait until April or May to get their final certificates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a419c72e9b448d582ff9f88afb79f9c\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: If I could take one of those questions. It was the mistakes made by the Logan Park High School administration\u2014as the member will know, because she is the member for that area\u2014that was the reason students did not get their results back, not the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, and not the NCEA. That is why the school was apologising in the paper. What would be quite helpful, and I think this was the point raised by Mr Donnelly, is that instead of people looking at NCEA to try to find the obvious one or two mistakes each year, they should applaud the fact that the standards-based system, which everybody in the country who understands assessments supports, is now working as well as one could hope it to work in respect of 1.9 million scripts. If there are individual issues, simply pick up the phone, ring me, and they will be fixed. The system is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c2b91ea4014cb7b9e30cfa20c49baf\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Why should it take a member of Parliament picking up the phone to ring the Minister, when these students have phoned the New Zealand Qualifications Authority time and time again and got some glib response that they are to go to a website, when what they want is their corrected provisional results so they can give them to their employers or their tertiary providers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022581a52ea3ed74fabba48b7a2f6ee696d\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I want to reassure the member that one does not have to go through the process of an MP raising these specific issues. I would like the member to give me the case she is talking about, because her predecessor, for example, raised numerous cases, and we could never get the details out of him. But I am hoping she will set a different way of going about this. If she raises these cases and tells us exactly what they are, she will lift her own standards and we can fix them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c769fa8a7034ef4b32e6a68baa70a53\u0022\u003ECorrections, Minister\u2014Departmental Information\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ce3122ee2540c997a1bfe42d0065e3\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Does he have confidence in the information he receives from his department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u0022be0414da6092423fa959811dfa1045a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be0414da6092423fa959811dfa1045a3\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister of Corrections)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Corrections: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229312bd6235794a26b5e1ad130fc02423\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister stated on 19 February on Radio New Zealand: \u201CThe thing that concerns me is that people assume this is right across the prison system. It is not. This is one unit, perhaps, in Rimutaka.\u201D, had the Department of Corrections informed him that in November 2006 a Canterbury prison officer reported to prison managers that corrupt officers were smuggling in P and up to 28 cellphones per month, and names of officers were provided, and has that management, which is the same management who were responsible for overseeing and running the \u201Cgoon squad\u201D, briefed him on that incident?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3497dccb5ad452b9c151a02cd21b779\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: The member raises a number of issues on which, I am sure, the Minister of Corrections has responded to him directly. There are a couple of matters that are currently subject to investigation, and I am sure the member appreciates that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d68197a20c6412d8a3cd36cd1cce0d1\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in the information provided by the Department of Corrections when honest prison officers who take enormous risks reporting allegations of smuggling and corruption to prison managers are, firstly, ignored, secondly, put at risk when the fact that they have passed on that information is deliberately leaked back to the inmates and the officers involved, and, thirdly, suspended and investigated for alleged misdemeanours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233367a48df6645d3bfef65bf8138f75a\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: All allegations and accusations are treated very seriously within the department. I am not familiar with the particular issue the member refers to, but I would be more than happy to follow that up and come back to him with an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022677a378974584d198aee0606b271fe63\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister see that as long as the department is run by people such as those who led the \u201Cgoon squad\u201D, who regionally oversaw and approved of its corrupt and illegal activities, and who at head office level failed to bring that region and its squad to account, seeking instead to justify their decisions not to fire anyone, he will never be able to have confidence in the quality of information provided to him by his department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd5ad238c9cc49ee9724b127d4e4d71d\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI\u003C/span\u003E: Corruption within the service is not accepted or tolerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eeaf9b3ee6db470c88a7033f8edc19b2\u0022\u003EElectricity Supply\u2014Reliance on Fossil Fuels\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261294066b51048bc9bcda35a0f64746d\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Does the security of electricity supply for the next 20 years rely on the use of unsustainable fossil fuels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00225ff7e640bf6647ccabd334f8ebe5ed58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ff7e640bf6647ccabd334f8ebe5ed58\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E We expect that the emissions from fossil fuels in the electricity sector will increase very significantly over the years to come as a consequence of the Government\u2019s climate change policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f53480ca3a9c40d9a4384d04afc15b12\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Did the Minister just say that he expects the emissions to increase, or did he mean decrease?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e55740ba69d456fa86fee5ff6cee667\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought I said decrease. I made a mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022912dffa6912848e798054c08726061a3\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Dr Keith Turner, the Chief Executive Officer of Meridian Energy, who says that to overcome considerable risk to the reliable power supply of the South Island a new coal-fired thermal plant producing 350 megawatts may be needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfea8c9b41574c50bc9b3ef2953bda18\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. Indeed, I think the article in the Press that perhaps led to that question in the House is perhaps a misreport. I understand from contact my office had with Meridian Energy today\u2014at Meridian Energy\u2019s behest, not at my prompting\u2014that it was misreported in the Press and that it has no plans for thermal generation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c02a9dea56940998cfd0e8172620ab3\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: So Keith Turner got the big call from the Prime Minister to tell him to get back in his box. Does the Minister agree with Mr Murray Jackson, Chief Executive Officer of Genesis Energy, who says that natural gas is critical to New Zealand\u2019s energy security, with 25 percent of New Zealand\u2019s electrical energy being generated from natural gas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e283107ae588412698b1251cacb3571b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It certainly is at present and it will be for some time to come. Indeed, as Jeannette Fitzsimons noted earlier in one of her questions, it is inevitable that we will have some reliance on thermal generation for some time into the future. It is, nonetheless, true that E3P will reduce greenhouse gas emissions this year because it will back off coal, and progressively over time we will see marked reductions in greenhouse gas emissions from electricity generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e78f22b22d9d474c96e6de06f660ab0f\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: What additional support is the Government giving to renewables generation to improve its viability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220133fcb60d5041df8201c6a978f3317b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just prior to Christmas, after Parliament rose, we announced a fund to support and bring forward marine power generation in New Zealand in a similar way to how we have brought forward wind power generation. In addition, the draft New Zealand Energy Strategy has proposed the consolidated call in of renewable geothermal and wind proposals to facilitate consents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022391d3e63b9694c418f80089b6b358c7f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister so confident that coal use is going to reduce, when chapter 3 of his draft Energy Strategy under the title \u201CSecurity of Electricity Supply\u201D does not even mention coal, and when Huntly is now a baseload station producing 4,500 megawatts per year\u2014without which this country would see the lights go out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225346b3af861c408c8979cbac982f14bb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as is recorded in the draft Energy Strategy, it is abundantly clear that coal is probably the most expensive form of new generation in New Zealand other than nuclear\u2014it is certainly more expensive than gas and renewables.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d1066b324164c9983f091f2683aa118\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister put the whole issue in balance and acknowledge that about only 9 percent of New Zealand\u2019s electricity is generated from coal, whilst in the USA it is 50 percent, in Australia it is 75 percent, and China is commissioning a new coal-fired power station every 10 days; and, if that is so, in the light of all this does he agree that it is imperative the world solves the clean-coal technologies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022986ea846851d4d2fb0e9c1903d84f416\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly agree that coal does not make up the majority of New Zealand\u2019s electricity generation; nor should it, because it is a more expensive option. I agree with the member, though, that in terms of the world\u2019s challenge for climate change, clean-coal technology is very important and deployment of it in countries in Europe, the United States, and China will be important. It is unlikely to be a solution for New Zealand because coal-fired power stations, even without the additional cost of carbon capture and storage, are more expensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a86570fcb624c05a44cef5d12334681\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: If renewable energy from hydro, wind, and geothermal fuel sources is the way of the future, why does the Minister not come out and direct State-owned generators to stop using coal and produce a timetable for the exit of other thermal plants\u2014or does he know that that suggestion would be as silly as the rest of his energy policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220067ce4d16d4425a9872976c1f660c80\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The reason we do not pick on State-owned enterprises, rather than have wise policy settings across the sector, is that if we banned State-owned enterprises from doing it but did not ban, for example, Contact Energy\u2014not wanting to pick on them\u2014TrustPower, or any other generator from pursuing coal, then if it was more cost-effective for those generators under those policy settings to develop coal they would, and, therefore, emissions would grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022453d5e540be348288e34e2b10d8fc495\u0022\u003EElectricity Generation\u2014Thermal Stations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e50b4ae37c7346418486b1f5004c0a9e\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: What reports, if any, has he received on plans to build new thermal generation plants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00228024d72d44d54fe3a42ecae24be3721c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228024d72d44d54fe3a42ecae24be3721c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E The first report is, of course, the one that was in the Press in the last couple of days that Meridian Energy is now disavowing and is saying is incorrect. The second report was in the Sunday Star-Times on 11 February, when Mighty River Power said that in light of the Government\u2019s energy and climate change policies it is unlikely to go ahead with the Marsden B coal-fired plant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e5f63d0a454456f926ef4360d5fe2f4\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any other reports on approaches to building new thermal generation plants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e91a93cd6342d797ae57db91dbd28c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: In contrast with this Government\u2019s consistent opposition to new coal-fired plants, I have received a report that another party welcomed the Marsden B facility at its inception. That party said it \u201Cwelcomes the new coal-fired Marsden B \u2026\u201D, and said: \u201Cthe development of this generation is exactly what New Zealand needs\u201D. That party\u2019s thermal energy spokesperson went so far as to say: \u201CThe Government must ensure that it doesn\u2019t let the RMA sink this desperately needed piece of generation.\u201D The party that was promoting coal generation was, of course, the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221331fcd98c514e9cae6751db694dd899\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister argue that requiring State generators to abandon coal and progressively get out of other forms of thermal generation will in fact give a price advantage to privately owned generators when he goes around the country saying that renewable sources are the cheapest form of generation\u2014is it that for the private sector coal is cheap or is it that for the Government it is expensive\u2014and how does that give consumers any confidence, given that the Government is such a big player in generation and ultimately sets the price that households pay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c03507883d184f30b1ecd7583b74ca39\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not what I said. I said it is important that the policy settings are right to dissuade the building of coal-fired generators, be they for the private sector or for the State-owned sector. It is clear that the Government\u2019s climate change policy is having the effect of dissuading anyone from building new coal-fired power stations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228288722d94e948e88a8c88599f54de2a\u0022\u003EIngram Report\u2014Review of Immigration Matters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec4fe3d308a4756ab72c0f3aa6ec121\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does he continue to claim that he has reviewed the immigration matters covered in the Ingram report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002272c5d44a94724fcd986871fd5c5e363a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272c5d44a94724fcd986871fd5c5e363a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. A number of immigration matters are covered in the Ingram report, which I have read on a number of occasions, as previously stated to the member on 12 September, 14 September, and 15 November 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022225fcd28e1344995b55dfea7d3a63e68\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Would information that Sunan Siriwan was working on Taito Phillip Field\u2019s house in Samoa at the time Mr Field was making representations to the then Associate Minister, Damien O\u2019Connor, on Mr Siriwan\u2019s behalf have been relevant information to the Associate Minister\u2019s decision to issue Mr Siriwan with a work visa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ee14f5c57748ba99f54641718e3b1b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Presumably, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bf7e17d36824b57abbcc44699a87983\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: In considering the crucial issue as to the knowledge of the Associate Minister, Damien O\u2019Connor, of Mr Siriwan\u2019s working on Taito Phillip Field\u2019s house in Samoa at the time he signed his letter of 23 June 2005 directing the New Zealand Immigration Service to issue a work visa for Mr Siriwan, would the evidence of the Hon Phil Goff have been relevant, as Mr Goff knew that Mr Siriwan was working on Taito Phillip Field\u2019s house in Samoa, because he had met him there, working on the floor of the house, almost exactly 3 months earlier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef754e7c7d3a4d92abbfe32a5af0d404\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I have ignored that member for a long time, but he has constantly misrepresented the truth in this case. At no stage has anybody demonstrated that I knew anything at all about Mr Siriwan, other than the fact that when I, accompanied by a number of senior officials, visited the house being built, there were two workmen in place. What the member is saying is inaccurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022708057ea38b1471e9363d4912a945219\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member be seated. The member knows, as many members do know, that that was not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210182caf01834030a40d90497ba664fd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The Ingram inquiry found absolutely no evidence of impropriety by the member Mr Phil Goff, and, as the House has heard, Mr Goff strenuously denies that false assertion by the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022667efa1b4d6540fa951dad6b32bdb547\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the Ingram inquiry concluded that the evidence does not support a finding that Mr Field knew that Mr Siriwan was working on his house in Samoa at the time of his final representations to the Associate Minister, Damien O\u2019Connor, on 17 May 2005, yet the Hon Phil Goff knew that Mr Siriwan was working on Mr Field\u2019s house during that time, because, along with Mr Field, he had seen Mr Siriwan screening the floor on 18 March 2005, and had spoken to him about the work he was doing to level the floor in preparation for tiling it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a450121cfb44670ad6a9af79003c01b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to make a personal explanation in relation to the comments the member has just made. Several years ago, when I was visiting Samoa on Government business for meetings with the Samoan Government, I travelled with a large number of people\u2014I think the group might have included the Commissioner of Police from New Zealand\u2014and we called in to the house being constructed for Taito Phillip Field. We looked briefly at the house. I saw two people there. I was introduced to them but I do not recall their names. I have no idea of their background or identity. For the member to say that I knew that a Mr Siriwan was working there is inaccurate. The member should not continue to make statements that he knows to be inaccurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221fb7fd0587f4419a320368e276f7095\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. While the Hon Phil Goff was giving his personal explanation to the House, which was meant to be heard in silence, Nick Smith interjected twice. You have given warnings twice today already about members breaking those Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4479b4969574b9bbdff529597c628fb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I have given two lots of warnings. So would the members who interjected during that time please leave the Chamber. I did not hear exactly who the members were. The members know. There was interruption during the personal explanation. Would those members please leave the Chamber. I have given two warnings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ff2998a05054fb5925755df31fd9526\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It would seem to me that the personal explanation from Mr Goff was not concluded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bce21dce272d4c5eb2738036a759ddad\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think he sat down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f6cbb7a3a44332bfbc52a536fc38f2\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Surely he would want to tell us how he might have corrected Mr Ingram\u2019s conclusions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4222248658454fb1413713da301deb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229cc5ea62dea4c4792df65a2b75ec2ce\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Hon Phil Goff provide relevant information to the Ingram inquiry on the immigration issue as to whether Taito Phillip Field knew that Sunan Siriwan was working on his house in Samoa at the time of Mr Field\u2019s final meeting with Damien O\u2019Connor and his private secretary on 17 May 2005?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267082d76dd9842819054eba6a15f6988\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: In the first place\u2014in answer to the member\u2014the member Phil Goff\u2019s position has been fully covered by his personal explanation. In the second place, Dr Lockwood Smith has advanced no evidence to this House that the Hon Phil Goff had any specific knowledge of people working on Taito Phillip Field\u2019s house. Thirdly, the Ingram inquiry found absolutely no evidence of impropriety by the Hon Phil Goff. And, fourthly, in any case, the Minister of Immigration is not responsible for the statements made to the Ingram inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0a0a1ba4f4c4db59aaa6ee6bc224f01\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8732f4c365f4105bc52443cc692481a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8732f4c365f4105bc52443cc692481a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Further to question of the day No. 2, I now have the information. I seek leave to table the estimates of the carbon footprints of the Government departments concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aba48766b7154532907d65a7454927ce\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de6d5f8ff9e14efdb7051889f78eeac8\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000264\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 15 February.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022397d05d236574610a78f01c9350bc90e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022397d05d236574610a78f01c9350bc90e\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E When I finished up my speech last week I was talking about National\u2019s sudden change to style over substance, and about the blatant plagiarism of style from David Cameron in the UK and the blatant plagiarism from Mark Latham of the Australian Labor Party in the Burnside speech. I understand that tomorrow Mr Key is off to Gisborne again. Of course, National had its 3-day caucus meeting in Gisborne. They swanned in, told us how bad we have it in Gisborne and what a sorry state we have it in, and then hermetically sealed themselves inside the Emerald Hotel, which is a hotel and conference venue only recently opened\u2014like so many other developments in Gisborne that were inconceivable until Labour came into Government. They came down and told us how bad we had it and what a sorry state we were in, and they did not bother to go and talk to anyone about it. They got a lot of criticism for that, so now they are going to have to come back and talk to some of the stakeholders in Gisborne. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EJohn Key is a man who obviously never went to Gisborne or the East Coast when his party was last in Government, when unemployment hit 22 percent in Gisborne and when surveys showed that tourists were staying away because they were afraid to come to Gisborne because it was regarded as a place high in unemployment and crime. I could not put it any better than our mayor, Meng Foon, did in his letter to the Prime Minister at the beginning of this year. He stated: \u201CI write to convey my appreciation of all your Government\u2019s policies and the funding support you have given to our region over the past few years. Your Government\u2019s support has certainly given us economic transformation.\u201D I could not put it any better than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EOf course we still have problems, but we do not need someone with no knowledge of our district swanning in from Auckland to point out what is obvious to those of us who live there every single day. Every community in this country has problems, and I am sick of our community being constantly singled out and being defined by the negatives when I am sure that if Mr Key looked around his community in Parnell, he would find that many, many problems exist there also. I say to the National Party that it is easy to criticise and point out problems; it is far harder to get results, as this Labour-led Government has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI want to say three things to John Key, who is becoming \u201CMr Everything to Everyone\u201D and \u201CMr I\u2019ll Tell You Exactly What I Think You Want To Hear\u201D, even though he contradicts himself constantly. He told M\u0101ori at R\u0101tana that he wants more dialogue and then decided that National\u2019s policy on the M\u0101ori seats is that it will not consult M\u0101ori at all. Even Dr Brash said he was going to consult M\u0101ori on the M\u0101ori seats policy. No, John Key does not need to; he is not going to consult them at all. I say that I believed the M\u0101ori Party when it said it thought the National Party was going to vote for the Foreshore and Seabed Bill. I believe the M\u0101ori Party now, but of course then John Key went to his caucus and they focus-grouped it, and now they have found that it might not be as palatable. So rather than saying he had told M\u0101ori that but now he disagrees, he said he had never said it. Maybe he was just being polite\u2014as he was to Dr Michael Cullen in their meeting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI want to say to John Key that if he is going to visit the worst streets of Gisborne\u2014and I am interested in what streets he thinks are the worst\u2014I want him to be honest and tell any Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants whether he is going to put up their rents. He should not go in there, play volleyball with the kids, and take one of them for a ride in his limousine, then not tell them\u2014and deliberately mislead them\u2014about the fact that his party\u2019s policy could see their rents rise 140 percent, like they did last time his party was in Government. I want him to apologise for his party\u2019s policies of the 1990s that saw the percentage of children in sole parent families living in poverty go from 15 percent to 63 percent after the \u201Cmother of all Budgets\u201D, and saw the percentage of children living in families where an income-tested benefit was the main source of income go from 25 percent to 75 percent overnight. I want him to apologise to those families if he now cares about them so much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI want to tell him\u2014and I want to hear him say it\u2014that he is never, ever going to implement those policies again, that the National Party has admitted that those policies were a failure and that they were destructive to New Zealand, and that they are never going back there again. But do members know, I do not think we are going to hear that, because, as Chris Trotter pointed out\u2014and it is a very good point\u2014why are all the big right-wing backers of Mr Key and the National Party not crying out about his sudden lurch to the left? Why are they not very concerned about where this National Party is going? The answer is because they know it is not true. They know that what he is saying is not what the National Party will do if it gets into Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI am very cynical, because I think the reason the National Party members are talking about an underclass is not because they care about it; it is because they want to make the rest of New Zealand afraid of it. They want to make people\u2014as Jenny Shipley said when she talked about Pacific Islanders crawling in people\u2019s windows\u2014scared about a growing underclass. They want to drive another wedge. They used M\u0101ori in the last election; they will use the poor and disadvantaged of this country at the next election. I say to Mr Key that at the end of the day, it does not matter how nicely he says it. It does not matter whether he changes his tone. It does not matter what politically correct shirt he wears. At the end of the day, it is substance and policy that put food on the table and a roof over people\u2019s heads. The people of New Zealand deserve to hear the truth from John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022708195c5be81443dbc0112aeda733b07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022708195c5be81443dbc0112aeda733b07\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Are you aware that New Zealand First will be splitting its speech time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022694f0d01368b4dada95d70771834ba21\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I will give you a bell at 1 minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263b4aebc4ff248e09de958a994f9f442\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100, engari e tika ana, ko te mea tuatahi e mihi kau ana ki a t\u0101tou e hui tahi i te wiki nei ahakoa ko t\u0113nei te wiki tuarua. Engari e tika ana kia mihi atu ki a koutou m\u014D te tau h\u014Du.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E[It is apt that the first thing to do is to extend greetings to us as we meet together this week, even though it is the second one. This aside, greetings for the New Year to you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs was outlined in my leader\u2019s speech last Tuesday, New Zealand First believes in climate change\u2014namely, economic and social. That is what we are asking this Parliament in 2007 to begin and to deliver. The Prime Minister in her statement leading off this debate outlined to the House that the Government has a challenge to sustain family and community living standards. We in New Zealand First believe that the challenge facing this Parliament is not to merely sustain family and community living standards but to dramatically improve those standards. One of the areas by which New Zealand\u2019s community living standards can be measured is the standard of housing available to its people, especially the availability of housing for the people who can least afford it. Although the State housing stock is slowly being restored after being slashed by the Government during the 1990s, the percentage of the stock being made available to New Zealanders is declining, and although some refugee and migrant families are worthy recipients of State housing, the fact that the scales continue to slip away from New Zealanders is of great concern to New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EBeyond the State housing stock we need to move to increase the stock of affordable housing. As our leader alluded to in his speech, the appalling rate of savings in this country is the key driver of sky rocketing interest rates and house prices. If our savings rates were higher, interest rates would be lower and many more people would be able to afford to buy houses. New Zealand First has made no secret of its desire for a compulsory savings scheme. Many will recall that our support for the New Zealand superannuation legislation\u2014now commonly known as the Cullen fund\u2014was dependent on the inclusion of a clause to enable accounts to be individualised as a step towards enabling it to be made compulsory in the future. We will continue to campaign for compulsory savings and to hope that some cross-party consensus is reached sooner rather than later for the betterment of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First secured an independent inquiry on rates last year that will look at the factors driving the steep rates increases that have been of such concern to superannuitants and others on fixed and modest incomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI want to include in my short contribution to this debate the area of M\u0101ori affairs. I mentioned earlier the need to improve family and community living standards. I acknowledge that in the area of M\u0101ori affairs improvements have occurred in employment and education. But there is still a terrible need to improve in these areas, as M\u0101ori still feature at the bottom of the social indices of our country. The recent reports on M\u0101ori male school-leaver underachievement do not paint a pretty picture for the future of M\u0101oridom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI want to take this opportunity to support recent comments made by the principal of that fine M\u0101ori boys\u2019 boarding school in Feilding, Hato Paora College, Mr Tihirau Shepherd, who stated that parents\u2014and, indeed, families\u2014needed to take more responsibility for their children\u2019s education, rather than opposing the present system. And while I am talking about M\u0101ori boarding schools, given their immense contribution to M\u0101ori educational achievement, one can only wonder why no support is given to the boarding facilities of these schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EDuring the sitting period, the first reading of my member\u2019s bill, entitled the Treaty of Waitangi (Removal of Conflict of Interest) Amendment Bill, will be debated. I hope that during the debate members of this House will hear the pros and cons of it and support it going to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022964edcf2983b4831a6539c6f4c931951\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022964edcf2983b4831a6539c6f4c931951\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I welcome all members back to Parliament\u2014I know we are into the second week of the House\u2019s sittings, but this is my first opportunity to speak. I trust that everyone is rested. I would like to pass on my thanks and the thanks of my partner to the people of the far north. We had the opportunity to holiday up in Whananaki, at Winston\u2019s home, and in Matauri Bay, with Dover and his whanaunga. We had the opportunity to spend time up at Whangaroa\u2014and what a beautiful place that is. I thank very much Doug and Robyn Gower for their hospitality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI also spent a bit of time camping down in the South Island, in Canterbury. The downside of that holiday experience was that, once again, I found myself the victim of crime. Although I could cry in my teacup about what that feels like, when I inspected my property and found that once again it had been burgled and that once again we had lost property\u2014that makes it about the 12th or 15th time that rural property of mine has been burgled\u2014I was reminded of the reason why people do not report crime. It is that quite often there is no point, because quite often when people report a crime to the police very little happens. They simply get a number to quote to their insurance company, and they get on and make the claim. If people in a particular area do not have insurance or if it is not worth insuring something because the premiums are so high, then there is no reason to report the crime. This time, however, we did report the crime. This was done out of recognition of the fact that if people do not report such crimes, the statistics look bad. I have long said in this House on behalf of New Zealand First that the reason some of the statistics that have been quoted in this House look as good as they do and have been painted positively is that two-thirds of crime in this country still goes unreported\u2014my source is the victimisation reports that get tabled in this House, too infrequently for my satisfaction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will again be focusing on law and order, and we hope to do so in as constructive a manner as is possible with the Government, in line with the confidence and supply agreement we have with it. In that respect, it behoves me, having listened to much of the rhetoric after the festive season about corruption in prisons, again to remind the Minister that he is not being briefed of all the facts. The question I asked in the House today was based on information passed to me by a prison officer, and supported by other people, that corruption is again rife not just in Rimutaka Prison and Waikeria Prison but also in Canterbury. I remind the House, and the Minister\u2014who is, after all, the sixth or seventh Minister of Corrections; I have lost count of the number we have had\u2014that although we have a chief executive officer in the Department of Corrections who is new in the job, underpinning him essentially are all the same people who were responsible for the activities of the infamous \u201Cgoon squad\u201D, defined by Ailsa Duffy QC as being not only corrupt but illegal, and I remind the Minister that no one was fired. If the Minister has any doubt about or any reason to wonder why the information he gets on occasion is embarrassingly wrong, he need look no further than the people who are advising him. We in New Zealand First have long said that a clean broom needs to go through the Department of Corrections. I am going to take it upon myself, on behalf of New Zealand First, to take some things to the Minister and encourage him to get out the broom and start cleaning out the department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EAt the same time as I do that, we will be pushing the Government to ensure that our target of 1,000 extra police is achieved by 2008. I will also be pressuring this House, from a New Zealand First perspective, to pass our Youth Offenders (Serious Crimes) Bill so that we might give ourselves a chance in this country to come to grips with violent youth crime. I congratulate Judge Boshier on his brave and courageous statements in the paper over the weekend. I encourage him to step forward and inform his Government and the Ministry of Justice that all is not well in the Youth Court. All is not well in youth justice, and we need to lower the age of criminal responsibility to 12 in order to save\u2014and I say \u201Csave\u201D\u2014some young people. To allow them to enter a life of crime and rack up 40, 50, or 80 appearances in front of the police only to then wonder why we are imprisoning them at the age of 21 for murder is a crime in itself. We are ducking our responsibilities if we do not do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022611c8566dbd34dc983d5c24f50bb3742\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022611c8566dbd34dc983d5c24f50bb3742\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to follow Mr Ron Mark from New Zealand First in this debate, because in the next day or two that member will have the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is. I understand that in the Justice and Electoral Committee, National members of Parliament are calling for a select committee inquiry that can finally resolve the inadequacies of the Department of Corrections. Whether that select committee inquiry proceeds will be based entirely on the vote of Ron Mark. So he can come into this House day in and day out protesting and questioning the Minister, but he will now finally have a chance to do something about it. I will be watching his vote, as will many New Zealand First voters throughout the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI start by welcoming to our caucus Katrina Shanks. She was dealt a fairly harsh blow at the last election: she was an MP for just over 1 week. When the final results came in she held her head high, and I think it is great that we now see her as a member of our caucus. I also record my thanks to Don Brash, who departed as a member of Parliament over the Christmas break, and say he did a remarkable job for the National Party. He took us from 20 percent in the polls to nearly being in Government, and I assure the Government side of the House that this party intends to build on that success and make sure that at the 2008 election there is no doubt at all that National will be the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EA week is a long time in politics when we consider that it is now just over a week ago that the Prime Minister stood here and gave a very boring 35-minute speech. The buzzword on that occasion was a new one\u2014I give her that\u2014sustainability. I watched with interest the body language of the Labour members of Parliament as they listened to that rather turgid, boring speech. They knew that the Prime Minister, who has delivered, to date, seven such speeches, has, at best, only one more of these shocking speeches to deliver before the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226671ddb5983947ea88b363d81a6c83a2\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Three elections down; two to go!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b8932e7e64e4de4ac651862f818d33d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Darren Hughes that I took the opportunity to go back over some of the earlier speeches made by Helen Clark. They are full of buzzwords and rhetoric, and there is no substance to them, at all. When she first started delivering speeches in this Parliament she used to use the word \u201Cintegrity\u201D. It is a shame that she certainly cannot use that word now amongst New Zealanders without a huge smile coming across all their faces, because they know that her party totally lacks integrity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe next buzzword we see is the term \u201Ceconomic transformation\u201D. We had a couple of years during which the Prime Minister used to try to tell us that the film industry would replace New Zealand agriculture as the basis of the economy. We all know that that did not happen, and never was going to happen. This year she came to the House with her eighth Prime Minister\u2019s statement and began the parliamentary year by talking about sustainability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022195392323fc6455d9b03df0bce23cfcc\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Good idea!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fdde8faec114604b436c4572dbf3bd6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Darren Hughes says it is a good idea! She was livid by the time she watched the 6 o\u2019clock news that night, because she realised that by raising the issue of sustainability the question on everybody\u2019s lips was how sustainable the Labour caucus is. Taito Phillip Field, whom the Prime Minister had said was simply a little over enthusiastic in the way he represented his constituents, had the audacity to question the Labour Party and its loyalty to him. The response was that he was sacked immediately, and all of a sudden the voting majority of this Government looked questionable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I want to talk about the sustainability of Labour. Today we found out that Helen Clark is now on record as saying that Taito Phillip Field is immoral and unethical, yet the Labour members of this House are prepared to grab the vote of a member who is unethical and immoral, according to their own Prime Minister\u2019s statement. So that says it all about Labour, as it desperately tries to hang on to power and limps to the next election midway through 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of the other less sustainable aspects of the Labour caucus between now and 2008. A number of its members are on the chopping-block. Jim Sutton was told to go late last year, and was replaced by \u201CChampagne Charlie\u201D Chauvel, whom I welcome back to the House. I see he is here this week; I did not see him around last week. Georgina Beyer was told to go, to be replaced\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e4d28005f134eadbdd1263c5255632c\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022294ade02f78348bcbdb50691ea9c1dbf\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d90eb9c14d32469db56ae8ab92bd0dc4\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I want to raise two points of order, Madam Assistant Speaker. The first point of order is that every member must be referred to by his or her full name, not in any other way. Secondly, one cannot refer to the absence of members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb77a02a55384f74ae5cd7a9ff89f783\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is quite right. The member will call members by their correct names, and he will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089c6a7cdf60454889431565b3ae7f73\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I welcome Charles Chauvel back as part of the rejuvenation process of the Labour caucus. The next one is Lesley Soper. Labour did not think much of her after she had been here in the last term; it dumped her way down the list. She is here today only because Georgina has left this place. Then we have a few others still to go. When will Dover Samuels go? The Prime Minister sacked him only because he was accused of wrongful action\u2014it was never proven by the police. We have Russell Fairbrother, who was identified by the Prime Minister as being dog tucker in the Labour caucus. There is Jill Pettis still to go; there is Dianne Yates\u2014the list never ends. The interesting thing to do is to look at who possibly might replace them, and I think to do so will provide the only hope that some of the deadwood on that side of the House has. There is very little talent still to come in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI looked at the Labour Party lists, and when Dover Samuels, Jill Pettis, or Russell Fairbrother gets the final nod, the next one in is Louisa Wall. Louisa Wall is the only one on the first half-dozen places of Labour\u2019s list who does not appear to have active union affiliation. She happens to be a policy analyst with the Human Rights Commission\u2014almost as bad. The next person on the list is Su\u2019a William Sio, who, by his own blog, is a personal friend of Taito Phillip Field. The first thing he will be told to do this afternoon is to get that statement off his blog. He has good Labour Party affiliations\u2014good union affiliations. Let me quote from Su\u2019a William Sio\u2019s personal statement on the Labour Party website: \u201CI believe my services in the Labour Party, the trade union movement in both New Zealand and the South Pacific region, have prepared me to advocate strongly for the above points and add value to Labour\u2019s Parliamentary team \u2026\u201D. The only thing stopping Helen Clark from proceeding to get rid of the deadwood on the Government side of the House is that the people on the list who would replace them are certainly no better and provide no rejuvenation whatsoever to a tired, tired Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI have not mentioned one or two others who need to be mentioned, and, of course, I cannot go without mentioning the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, the Minister of Corrections. He was totally missing over the Christmas break when we had the dreadful Burton affair. An innocent person was killed, and Damien O\u2019Connor could not be found anywhere to even comment on the issue of Burton being let out on parole, even when the police were asking that he be recalled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EOf course, the other Minister who must be on borrowed time is the Hon Dr Michael Cullen, the man who raised the idea of a mortgage tax, only to be shot down in flames by his own leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec30a4808faa4ceb9150b71d8debc001\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: No, he didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d84d616e3b9400fb2f787520dd46880\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to that member that I was listening to Morning Report, and, yes, the Minister did raise the issue of a mortgage tax. He suggested that it was an idea worthy of investigation. He was completely annihilated immediately by Helen Clark, who knew that such an idea was political suicide. So how long can that Minister stay on as deputy leader, when he openly disagrees with the leader of the Labour Party? I will tell members again what saves Dr Cullen: there is nobody with any talent at all to take the job from him. The pretender Trevor Mallard does not have a show. He is the guy who blotted his copybook by talking about a stadium on the waterfront. That will be what saves Labour members\u2014the machinations of trying to carry out the rejuvenation process. They are bereft of talent in caucus, they are bereft of talent outside caucus, and they will see that there is an ability to rejuvenate after the 2008 election, when National is on the Government side of the House and the remaining Labour members are over here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c857ffda15c041d3b74d4d0bca37d86a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c857ffda15c041d3b74d4d0bca37d86a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E That was a classic National Party speech in this debate\u201410 minutes long and not a single policy, not a single positive statement. Let me say one thing to the member. If he had listened to Morning Report that day, he would have heard Bill English say at 8 a.m. that it was an idea worth considering and say by 9 a.m. that it could not possibly be done at all. That was, even for Bill English, a quick flip-flop, and it showed the clear choice that this country faces\u2014on the one hand an experienced and effective Government, with strong positions and policies for the future, and on the other hand an unprincipled and weak National Party, with a co-leadership of \u201CMr Empty\u201D and \u201CMr Angry\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ELet us deal with the Government first. We have a stronger, fairer, more confident nation than we had 7 years ago. One can visit any provincial centre and feel and see the difference. Tomorrow and Thursday Mr Key will be in Gisborne, trying to make up for the fact that when the National caucus went there it spent all its time having a good time and not visiting anybody, so he has to go back. I do not know what designer T-shirt he will wear in Gisborne; it will be interesting to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe have had uninterrupted economic growth\u2014the second-longest period since the Second World War. In employment, we have created 330,000-odd more jobs. We have the second-lowest rate of unemployment in the OECD. National said we could never get the unemployment rate down below 4 percent. In terms of skills, we have Modern Apprenticeships and industry training, and we have had a major revamp of the tertiary education system. The Working for Families programme is reducing by 70 percent the number of children living below the poverty line. New Zealand superannuation was increased in the first step we took as a Government and has been maintained at that higher level ever since. Through the primary health care system there are cheaper visits to the doctor and cheaper prescriptions. The total crime rate has actually reduced under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ENow we need to move to the next stage\u2014the stage of putting in place, in a range of areas, key sustainability policies that will see New Zealand into the long term. We have done so in relation to New Zealand superannuation with the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and now we need to move on the issues of the environment and climate change, because our long-term goal must be to be carbon neutral. The Opposition has poured scorn on the long-term goal and asks when it will be: \u201CWill it be 15 August 2010; if so, how are we going to get there by that time?\u201D. Well, we have to be carbon neutral at some point. The Opposition does not seem to understand that particular, very simple environmental point. We have to deal with the damage that has been caused over the last 50 years in particular, and 200 years in general, to our environment. That is a goal that all members ought to share; all National can do is try to make up its mind as to what it thinks about the issue in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIn the area of savings and investment, KiwiSaver comes in on 1 July this year. We will need to think about further moves to ensure that we promote savings and investment in New Zealand. We have changed the tax laws already in order to reduce the overtaxation on low-income earners\u2014those earning below $38,000 a year\u2014who manage to save, and we have put in place a fairer offshore investment regime. We need to think about the next steps to build a stronger savings culture in this country. There is no point in whingeing about foreign ownership if we are not saving enough to generate our own investment in our own country. We need to build our national identity more, which is not to build a midi-America but to build a better New Zealand. That is what this party in Government stands for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAgainst that is the empty rhetoric of the new co-leadership. Mr English, of course, claims to be the brains of the team, but we can see that that is not a high claim to make when we look at the other half of the team. Mr English says that he does the policy and writes the speeches. He boasted that he wrote the Burnside speech because Mr Key did not know anything about social policy. Well, going on what was inside the Burnside speech, Mr English did not know much about social policy, either. Mr Key is there to provide the veneer, but beneath that veneer there is nothing. We used to ask in politics: \u201CWhere\u2019s the beef?\u201D; with Mr Key we ask: \u201CWhere\u2019s the wood\u2014what is actually below that veneer?\u201D. He has an extraordinary ability to take no firm stand on anything at all. He is all veneer, no wood; all surface, no substance; all gloss, no paint. That is Mr Key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EIn the Burnside speech he had two ideas. The first was to have a bit of coordination with the voluntary sector, and to show how important that was he put in charge of it\u2014who? Was it one of the front-benchers? Was it one of the key figures? No, it was Paula Bennett, a person unknown in the community at large\u2014never heard of. Most people who come from where I come from probably think she is Gordon Bennett\u2019s daughter. Secondly, he had a food-in-schools programme\u2014and then he did not have a food-in-schools programme, because he discovered we already have a Fruit in Schools programme that he did not know about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ba16f7c0c942fbbd41743946748785\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Gone by lunchtime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66bf95dfea0489e86fc13c26f430461\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Gone by lunchtime indeed was the food-in-schools programme. The \u201CMuesli Bar Kid\u201D, John Key, vanished completely into the air, never to be seen again in that particular respect. There will be a new T-shirt on, a new visit, a new issue, a new photo opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EAnd what of the underclass? Mr Key ventured forth from his three sections in Parnell and discovered there was an underclass. There was no connection between one and the other, no doubt, in his own view of these matters. Well, I could have told him that; there has always been an underclass in our kind of society. But what is his policy? From this Government on 1 April there will be a $10-per-week per child increase in family support to all families that qualify for the family support tax credit. Mr Key\u2019s policy was to repeal that increase and to replace it with a tax cut for himself, for me, and for all members of this House. What does he want? Does he want 3\u00BD sections in Parnell? Is that his actual approach to social policy for the future of New Zealand? There is no real substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat did he say of Iraq? He said that it was too far away to judge the best course of action. This is from a man who used to bet millions, if not billions, of dollars of other people\u2019s money in terms of Iraq\u2019s international effects on the financial markets, yet suddenly when he is the leader of the National Party Iraq is too far away to know what the course of action should be for a New Zealand Government. That gives people confidence about what kind of Prime Minister he might be! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat of the Hollow Men conspiracies? John Key has claimed to know nothing. He knew so little that he has claimed he did not open the key email addressed to him that told him everything. It actually was headed with what it was about, but he has said he deliberately did not open it. That was interesting, and nobody followed that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat does John Key think of climate change? He claims he did not say that it was a complete and utter hoax. What he did say was that he was somewhat suspicious of it\u2014that he was not even sure there was a problem. Then he said, only a year later, that the risks were serious and that climate change had to be dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWhat about the Springbok Tour? He cannot remember what position he had on that tour, as a 19-year-old in New Zealand in 1981\u2014give me a break on that one! What about the Foreshore and Seabed Bill? He led Tariana Turia and the M\u0101ori Party to believe he would vote for it, then he said he would vote against it. What about all those new monetary policy instruments, whereby he was first on one side and then on the other? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EHis index finger is wearing away from the number of times he is licking it so as to stick it up in the wind to see what his opinion ought to be on every kind of issue. What connects all this is the fact that he does not want to be firm on anything in case he loses a single vote on any position he might take. One gets away with that for only a brief period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003ESo we have gone from Mr English, who became incredible for saying things he did not believe, which were mad right-wing slogans, to Dr Brash, who became incredible for saying things he did not believe, because they were centrist and he was a mad right-winger, to Mr Key, who is becoming incredible for saying nothing except for empty slogans that nobody is supposed to disbelieve. The ultimate thing he is trying to aim for is a slogan that no one will disbelieve but that adds up to a picture of nothingness\u2014a sort of photograph of a white ghost in a snowstorm. That is his position on every issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003EWe are told by a senior member of the press gallery that Mr Key is still on his honeymoon and should not yet be asked any hard questions. Well, that is a dodgy basis for a long-term relationship with the electorate. The truth is that there are no answers. Mr English is the puppet master, but what Mr English has not quite realised yet is that there is actually no puppet. When he finally realises that, he will utter again those famous words: \u201CWhy not me?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002230f974c39b1b4f6398fa354f9cd655e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230f974c39b1b4f6398fa354f9cd655e6\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is with pleasure that I rise this afternoon and wish my colleagues a happy New Year, and I extend good wishes to our newest member of the National caucus, Katrina Shanks, who will be giving her maiden speech anytime shortly. I welcome Katrina. She did a fantastic job in Ohariu-Belmont and was not far away from taking that seat. I believe that in the 2008 election, Katrina Shanks will take it. I welcome Katrina and her colleagues into the House this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is a special occasion for me that I can follow on from the Minister of Finance\u2014\u201CMr Mortgage Tax\u201D, or \u201CMr Chewing Gum Tax Cut\u201D. He is someone who is on the way out, like this Government, which is extremely tired, and has a lack of ideas and a lack of vision. Prime Minister Helen Clark, in her address last week, mentioned the word \u201Csustainability\u201D 33 times. That is obviously the key word, and that is how this Government thinks it will get back into power for a fourth term. The Greens are holding up in their poll rating, and Labour members have worked out, with their little bit of polling, that if they scare people into thinking that icebergs are going to float up their street, their creek, or their canal, that climate change will hurt everyone. So we heard the Prime Minister mention sustainability 33 times. Her address last week was full of slogans, without any detail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ELast week I was walking across the street when a person yelled out to me. He said: \u201CHey, Nathan!\u201D. I turned round and saw an old university colleague of mine crossing the street. I stopped and shook his hand. But it was not his normal hand, because he was wearing a brace, out from his shoulder down to his elbow, and had things screwed into his arm. I said to him: \u201CWhat\u2019s happened to you?\u201D. He said: \u201CI\u2019ve been shot.\u201D I said: \u201CShot?\u201D. He said: \u201CYeah, have you heard of Graeme Burton?\u201D. This is a true story. I said: \u201CYes.\u201D He said: \u201CWell, I was out on my mountain bike, with a mate of mine, happily on a Sunday afternoon.\u201D\u2014I think it was. He was riding through the tracks on his mountain bike, going flat out, and came around a corner and came across a person who had been shot dead by Graeme Burton, and stabbed. He could not stop quickly enough to help this person. He braked, locked up his bike, and there was Graeme Burton. He cycled away as quickly as he could. Graeme Burton had a shotgun, full of buckshot, and blew the bone in this person\u2019s arm into seven pieces; he blew it apart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s stance on parole is hopeless. What did we see from Damien O\u2019Connor when Graeme Burton was running large in the hills above Wellington? Nothing. A colleague of mine, whom I went to university with, was out having a joyride on his mountain bike, and had the bone in his upper arm blown to bits in seven places, and this Government is silent. We thought that even the Prime Minister would get tough on the Parole Board. We thought there would be something in her state of the nation address. But there was nothing. There were more words, more slogans, but they did not address the core issues for this country. Yet she comes out and talks about selling the VIP car fleet, because that will save $500,000 in 3 years\u2019 time. That will reduce our carbon emissions. What will happen? This fleet of cars will be sold on the open market in New Zealand, and another New Zealander will buy them. So we are going to move into vehicles powered by bio-diesel. I cannot wait to see Parekura Horomia trying to fit himself into one of those vehicles, powered by biofuels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhen we are talking about climate change, what about the people involved in forestry? What about those people who are scared of this Government bringing in a tax for changing land use? Whereas farmers or landowners might have been going to harvest their trees at 28 or 30 years\u2019 maturity, they are now out there firing up their chainsaws as we speak, because this Government is going to impose a $13,000 a hectare tax on changing land use from trees. Under this Government we have a terrible wishy-washy policy on climate change. It is all over the place. The Government has scared foresters and landowners who want to steal the carbon credits. It has forced them to fire up their chainsaws, and more pine trees are being felled in this country now than are being replaced. The Government needs to look very hard at itself, because it is the one that has inflicted this terrible deforestation that our country is incurring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI thought that the Prime Minister\u2019s statement would be great. I thought that surely she would mention something about the backbone of our economy\u2014surely she would mention something about the farming sector, which I am pretty passionate about. [Interruption] I say to Mr Hughes, who represents the most marginal seat of Otaki, that the Prime Minister had one sentence about farming, on page 4 of her address. She said, when talking about emissions: \u201CIn agriculture part of the answer lies in changing farming practice now, \u2026\u201D. There were no ideas; no solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224831b56e65d44ea086ce1b4799f175b0\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What are yours? Give us one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f9beb0ac55b448fbdef642359053d67\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: No, why should we divulge now all the things we are proposing, when Labour members have had 8 long years. They are hopeless. That is why they will all be gone. They will be packing their bags. They will be down in numbers in 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to see that the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry is out there, looking for more employees to go and sell the Labour Party\u2019s climate change policy. The ministry employs 1,500 staff and it is now looking for an extra three to get out there and sell this climate change policy. The ministry spends $1.2 million a year on public relations consultants, yet it wants to go out and employ more people. I cannot work that out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EToday we asked the Minister of Finance about carbon neutrality. We asked to hear from him about the six departments that are going to reduce their carbon footprints by 2012. There was nothing. He is absolutely hopeless. What we see from this Government is that it is now going to hang on to power by the one proxy vote that Taito Phillip Field\u2014who the Prime Minister says is unstable, unethical and immoral\u2014will give it. The Government is going to hang on to the thin thread of power by one proxy vote, from someone who, more than likely, will end up in court. The courts have a long list of cases, because the Government cannot solve the problems, and I believe it will take 12 to 15 months before Taito Phillip Field appears in court. This Government is going to hang on by a little thread\u2014one proxy vote from Taito Phillip Field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIt is also interesting to see in the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that 2007 is the year of the exporter. Well, well, well! Are not exporters struggling? There is a high dollar. What is this Government doing about that? What is the Government doing about farmers, who are the backbone of this country? Sheep farmers are now finding that this is a 7-year low for them as $25 has gone off the lamb schedule, yet this Government says that this is the year of the exporter. The rural economy is going to close its cheque book, lock it in the top drawer, and provincial towns around New Zealand will feel that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI was really interested to hear Paul Hargreaves, the former boss of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research, say on Radio New Zealand National this morning that the institute could forecast floods 12 to 36 hours quicker than MetService, yet MetService has the contract to do the weather forecasting for heavy flood warnings in New Zealand. We have two Government departments, run by different Ministers, that cannot get together and forecast our flood areas. If that had been the case in 2004, if the institute had had the opportunity to forecast flooding, I think we would not have been in the same situation then, whereby one farmer in the Manawat\u016B lost 3,500 lambs in that flood. I think that is shocking. It is bureaucracy gone mad. We have the technology to forecast flooding in this country, and the Labour Government cannot sort it out between Steve Maharey and the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, whose name I have forgotten. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EJust to sum up, this Government is on its last legs. I look forward to seeing the end of it. Its members are tired. They do not have any ideas at all. I think the most important thing for National is that we have rejuvenated, and I welcome Katrina Shanks into our caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00221e0d354bc4ec43df97097f790c4376df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e0d354bc4ec43df97097f790c4376df\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E For the uninitiated who are listening to this on radio, I say that the last speaker was one Nathan Guy who harks from a province near here. I was very interested in his speech. I know he is a new member, but he asked what his role is. He was challenged by members on this side of the House to provide one policy in his speech. He was not equal to that challenge; he had not one policy, not half a policy\u2014he said it was not National\u2019s role. What is the role of an Opposition? Well, apart from Opposition members sitting on their backsides and claiming 120 grand a year, the role of Opposition members is, yes, to oppose. That is the natural role of an Opposition. One would have thought that after 7\u00BD\u2014nigh on 8\u2014years in Opposition Nathan Guy, who is part of the new world order, with a few of the other \u201Cnewies\u201D who have come in on that side of the House, would be told to get up and put out an agenda and a policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMichael Cullen used a very interesting phrase. I will give Nathan Guy a little history lesson. In American politics, every candidate for leadership goes through a particular phase. Michael Cullen used the term for it; it is called the \u201Cwhere is the beef?\u201D moment, or \u201Cwhere is the substance?\u201D, or \u201Cwhere is the policy?\u201D. National members can go with the \u201Cslick willy\u201D routine. They can paint John Key with as many coats of varnish as they want, but at some time he will come to that American political moment when he has to come up with the beef. He will run out of stunts like the one at Waitangi where he used a young M\u0101ori girl. I have never in my life seen such a blatant use of a young person in politics. As Shane Jones said in his address, the kaum\u0101tua nailed him and told him not to bring a pet up there. He got nailed at Waitangi on that. Then there was the so-called food in schools stunt. He got unzipped, slit open, and stitched back up again because he tried to pull a fast one not only on that principal and that school but on our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EJohn Key, of course, is a person who thinks in transactions. He was a foreign-exchange dealer: a man who made his pile as a junk bond dealer trading down the Kiwi dollar. He thinks in transactions. As Michael Cullen said, when John Key was asked what his position as a 19-year-old was on the 1981 Springbok Tour, he thought about it as a transaction. He thought that if he said he was for it, he would maybe brass off a historic group in the community; if he said he was agin it, he would probably alienate a few others; but if he told the truth and said what he believed\u2014if he knew what he believed\u2014then he might show some leadership. He copped out and took both plan A and plan B. He could not even answer when asked the simple question\u2014and I am not moralising here, as a not-very-good Catholic myself\u2014of whether he believed in God; he thought in transactions. He could not quite\u2014after four attempts\u2014give a straight answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr English says he is hand in glove with Mr Key, and I believe him. Mr Key is the glove puppet and we all know where Mr English\u2019s hand resides. It resides right in that glove puppet. We know who writes the speeches. I say that the Prime Minister\u2014unlike the Opposition\u2014set out an agenda. She reminded this Opposition that we have the second-lowest unemployment in the OECD and that we have created 330,000 jobs as a nation. I ask people to ask what National did when they were in power for nigh on a decade. We re-created, recrystallised, and backed our young people with apprenticeships after National had destroyed apprenticeships. Lockwood Smith gets up in Parliament and says he is proud of the fact that he did over and destroyed the Apprenticeship Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe backed our young people. We backed our elderly folk with a sustainable policy. The Opposition hates that word \u201Csustainable\u201D, because it cuts to the quick of the shallowness and the hollowness of every member on that side who cannot, in every speech in this debate, come up with one policy idea. They lambaste us for talking about sustainability. They lambaste us for saying what we believe and that we are going to promote policies and ideas that will protect our environment. In doing that we do a simple thing: we protect our communities, we protect our social fabric, and we protect our natural and public environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThey lambaste us for putting a policy agenda on the table in our third term in office. But when challenged, would the hollow men, the hollowed-out crew, over there give us one answer, one idea, or one thought? Even if they cannot give us a policy, can they give just a thought to say they had an idea they wanted to kick around with the communities? Not one of them will front up. They are great superstars with their wonderful careers in the private sector. They are great intellects who wandered into Parliament. They are the disappointed men who were lawyers and trade ambassadors on the outside and now, of course, they sit languishing over there, not quite realising their dreams and their ambitions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere is intellect over there somewhere. They hide it well, but it may be there. I challenge them. They have had a Prime Minister\u2019s statement setting an agenda and setting a number of policies: what we are going to do in the transport area, how we are going to take apprenticeships to the next level, and how we are going to sort out things close to my heart\u2014energy efficiency and health and safety within housing. They have all our ideas, and, unlike Nathan Guy, we are not afraid to put them out there. We believe we actually get paid to propose and to challenge our communities with policies and ideas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to Nathan Guy that if he wants to know how to earn his pay, he should go back to wherever he came from, go out and do a clinic occasionally, speak to more than his little inner circle of the silk suit - wearing brigade, and ask the communities what they think. Maybe he should go out and apologise for what he did in the last election when he made jokes about climate change and laughed about sustainability. Maybe he can go back to where he comes from and answer the challenge of why, for 9 years, National members have denied there is a problem in the environment. For 9 years they said it was a joke\u2014it was smoke and mirrors. The man who walks in now was the proponent of that, and now they have had a road to Damascus experience. Suddenly they believe it\u2014but only because it is politically palatable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a96e67a919e4cb48281349467581b93\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. The question is that Heather Roy\u2019s amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that all the words after the word \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following substituted: \u201Cthis House has no confidence in the Government, which is in denial about the real issues confronting New Zealanders, keeping families dependent on government, and stands between our people and prosperity.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002204b5b1eb223b417ba8a24e3f533eaa72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204b5b1eb223b417ba8a24e3f533eaa72\u0022\u003EJOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I notice that the Labour Party has just exercised a proxy vote for Taito Phillip Field. You will recall that this afternoon in Parliament there was quite an extended debate about the definition of \u201Cpublic business\u201D, so I assume that under Standing Order 156(4)(d) the Labour Party will be claiming that the vote is being exercised on the basis that Mr Field is on public business. I wonder whether that would be an opportunity for you to reflect whether Mr Field is, in fact, on public business. We know that yesterday he was interviewed by the police. This is a wonderful opportunity for you, Madam Speaker, to give us an indication as to whether you think that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4d39da59d94b09931591c131104603\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I did rule on this, as the member indicated earlier. The whips\u2019 word has to be accepted concerning the casting of a proxy vote, and it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022217cefba115c4453bff1766040c95e6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022217cefba115c4453bff1766040c95e6d\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am very happy to accept the Labour Party whip\u2019s word. I just want to know what the word is. Is the Labour Party whip saying that Taito Phillip Field is on public business or is he saying that Taito Phillip Field has told him he is on public business? What word is it that we are actually accepting here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3d75f6739b40c795c6dedeee71060c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member, Mr Field, has indicated he wishes his vote to be exercised in this way by the Government whip. It has been exercised. Mr Field knows what the rules are. His word is taken, as is the Government whip\u2019s word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u00226ff9753b4bf54d29add733cf8faf5dd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ff9753b4bf54d29add733cf8faf5dd5\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274a2d5fb3f7b4e09b7214b545458690f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aebacecc3db45838dd685b5e120cc47\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry; I know that. I would hate to upset you at this stage. I know that we are accepting the member\u2019s word for how the vote is to be cast. I know that we are accepting his word that he is happy for the Labour Party to cast it, but what I do not understand is that as the requirement is for Taito Phillip Field to be on public business, are we accepting the word of the Labour Party whip that Taito Phillip Field is on public business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200675d6a48854a66891c28ba6833bd41\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Field knows what the rules are. He knows he has to be on public business to enable the Government to cast his proxy vote. I have accepted his word, and, obviously, the Government whip has accepted his word. I have accepted it because that has been accepted. So that, as far as I am concerned, is the end of the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u002200b13de283e24bd9ba2f909e92781f30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200b13de283e24bd9ba2f909e92781f30\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Under subparagraph (i) of Standing Order 156(d) anybody can be away from Parliament \u201Cfor illness or other family cause of a personal nature,\u201D but that has not been raised. The issue being raised now is whether he is away on public business, and it has been very clear that he has given his vote to the Labour Party whip. He has said that publicly, and if he is away on business that is of a personal nature, that is allowed. It was certainly allowed to me when I was on my own. So I cannot see what the argument is about, actually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b60a6920b4804f4f94550242cac79709\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, it is for the member to decide whether he wishes to have his vote cast through proxy, with the Government whip in this instance. The member knows the rules. I have accepted the word of the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022d65e13289ab247a2a6ff9a249dd06fce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d65e13289ab247a2a6ff9a249dd06fce\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6447da45d6541089307fbaec25538c8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry; but you were asked to leave the Chamber till the end of the day. I am not sure what you are doing here but I am sure someone else will raise your point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228195c366f2bb44aca2e90d00da26140d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: You change the rules to suit yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221db0e304ea7142a3b95be5c440398e30\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. I gave an instruction to that effect and I am sorry if it did not get through to you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002269a8428c1f6b47f39e4e0280f8b73219\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat all the words after the word \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following substituted: \u201Cthis House has no confidence in the Government, which is in denial about the real issues confronting New Zealanders, keeping families dependent on government, and stands between our people and prosperity.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000361\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225aa5ae1787e844fc9479bcc7fbe36fb7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That this House has no confidence in the Government led by Helen Clark because it lacks any vision or purpose apart from getting re-elected, it refuses to be accountable or responsible for the public services it oversees, it is tired and bereft of ideas, and all it can offer New Zealand is a collection of empty slogans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002241c9723f143249a083be3c8ecd883326\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abbf1d1f39514f6bbc67b4ae947c7891\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u2014Absence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002228072834ac4644429a86c76c6323b4b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228072834ac4644429a86c76c6323b4b8\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think an issue has arisen that does require your further consideration. It relates to the matter of leave provided to Taito Phillip Field. Because what has been discussed this afternoon is that a member can be given leave from this Parliament for public business, illness, or a family matter. The Labour whip previously suspended, under the Prime Minister\u2019s orders, Taito Phillip Field from his parliamentary duties and from all electorate duties. Taito Phillip Field was absent from this House, under the authority of the Labour whip, for a period of some months. He was suspended from all parliamentary duties and all public business in his electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhat I think you need to indicate to the House is the validity of that period of absence\u2014a prolonged period of absence from this Parliament\u2014for a member of this Parliament when clearly that absence, because the Labour whip suspended him from his parliamentary and electorate duties, could not possibly have been on public business. We know the member was not sick for that full period of time, and I do not imagine it would be possible to construct a family reason why the member was absent for that time. This Parliament does ultimately have the say over how long a member can be absent from this Parliament. You are responsible for making sure the Standing Orders are upheld in that regard. It would seem to me there has been some breach there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca733c2bd8e4526ab916cb581e0f77d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member and I would refer him to\u2014I am sorry, I do not have it in front of me\u2014I think, Hansard on 6 December where I gave an extensive ruling on this matter. But I am very happy to make it available to the member again; it dealt with the issue of absence from Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a335bbe9d18c456890ecdc86d42f4b61\u0022\u003EMaiden Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec53f068509542ebaf668151865ad5d3\u0022\u003EMaiden Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00227f429814f8cb4574b0c6430542677d33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f429814f8cb4574b0c6430542677d33\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E My journey to arrive in Parliament today has been slightly longer and, one might say, more convoluted than most. It actually began in 1975, at the age of 6, when my father, then 37, stood for Parliament for Social Credit against the Rt Hon Sir Keith Holyoake in the Pahiatua electorate. My dad believed he could make a difference to society and sought to make that difference by standing for Parliament and the values he believed in. He never actually stood a chance in the National stronghold of Wairarapa and he did not become an MP, but for me his experience was a valuable lesson. If one believes one can make a difference and wants to seek to make that difference, then one should be prepared to speak up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI did exactly that in 2005 when, at the age of 36, with a successful accountancy career, a wonderful, supportive husband, and three beautiful, healthy children behind me, I sought and won the National Party candidacy for the Ohariu-Belmont electorate. Even though my dad and I sit miles apart on the political spectrum, we wanted the same things. Broadly, we wanted a better country for our family, our friends, and all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIn a further parallel with my father, I stood in another safe seat for an Opposition party. That was a challenging task, but I aimed with the knowledge that the situations of the people in the families of the Ohariu-Belmont electorate mirrored my own situation\u2014they were hard-working, educated, family oriented, involved in the community, and striving to provide a safe, caring, and nurturing environment for their children to grow up in and prosper. My team and I campaigned hard, determined to get the best result for the National Party. I believe that the values I share with the people of Ohariu-Belmont enabled me to connect with the voters in that electorate, and, importantly, connect those voters with the National Party. Even though I did not win, I am proud to say that National\u2019s share of the party vote was almost doubled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EBut my dream of making it to Parliament was not quite over. Under MMP I had a second chance, and, following the 2005 election, I was actually elected to Parliament on the National Party list. However, in a cruel twist of fate this avenue of entering Parliament was not to be, either. Once the special votes were counted, National lost a seat\u2014mine! My short 2-week stint as an MP came to a end, but those 2 weeks gave me a taste of what being an MP was all about and confirmed to me that I definitely had unfinished business. So when Dr Brash made the decision to resign late last year and the new leader, John Key, phoned to ask me whether I would be interested in taking up his place in Parliament, it seemed that fate had intervened again. This time it was in my favour, and I did not have to think twice. My long journey to Parliament was over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI am delighted and very proud to be standing before you today as a National member of Parliament. It is both an honour and a privilege to be here. I would like to acknowledge Dr Brash for the outstanding role he played in rebuilding the National Party and thank him for essentially giving me the opportunity to now play my part in shaping the future of the party and, ultimately, my country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E I would also like to acknowledge some very special people who have played pivotal roles in helping me to reach this point and without whom I would simply never have made it to the start line back in 2005. First and foremost, I acknowledge my husband, Bill. We met, fell in love, travelled the world, and returned to New Zealand to have our own family and to raise our children amongst our family and friends. Bill is my rock, and I thank him for his unwavering love and support. I thank my mother, Annette, my sister, Jill, and my parents-in-law, Maureen and John, who are also in the gallery, for the support they have given me and my family throughout my journey here today. I thank my party president, Judy Kirk, my leader, John Key, and my regional chair, Patricia Morrison, for believing in me and in my ability to add value to their very talented team. Their support and counsel are most appreciated. The last thanks goes to the team in the Ohariu-Belmont electorate\u2014in particular to the two Tonys, Mike, Fleur, and John, and also to the rest of the team, who fought a tireless campaign and kept the electorate organisation humming. I also make mention of my children, Sam, Annabelle, and Lachlan, who are three bright lights in my life. Lastly, I say a great big hello to friends who are listening to me via the radio waves. I will do my utmost to live up to their expectations of me as a member of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to now join my fellow National MPs Mark Blumsky and Chris Finlayson in representing the good people of Wellington. I was born and raised in Dannevirke. I came to Wellington at the age of 22, after completing my Bachelor of Business Studies at Massey University, to take up my first professional role with Audit New Zealand. Apart from the times when Bill and I have travelled, I have lived here ever since and have raised my family here. I now consider myself very much to be a Wellingtonian. I have seen a lot of the world\u2019s great cities, but I truly believe that Wellington outshines them all. Nothing compares to the first glimpse of Wellington when one rounds the bottom of Ngauranga Gorge. It is just sensational, especially on one of our famous good days, and especially when one has been away for a while. When we see that cityscape, we know we are home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI am looking forward to working with Mark Blumsky and Chris Finlayson, and, indeed, the region\u2019s other MPs, to represent the people of Wellington and their issues in Parliament. All in all, I am very fortunate to have become a part of National\u2019s diverse parliamentary team, led by John Key and Bill English, both of whom have great vision and an even greater determination to succeed in implementing that vision. All my colleagues are talented, vibrant, energetic, passionate New Zealanders. They do not believe in old slogans but rather they believe that actions speak louder than words. They are not sitting back waiting to get into Government in order to make a difference to people\u2019s lives; they are out there making a difference now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI sought to join this team because its values are my values. These values are letting people take the ultimate responsibility for themselves, allowing people the freedom to make informed choices, ensuring that people enjoy equal opportunities, encouraging competitive enterprise, rewarding achievement, placing great emphasis on strong families and caring communities, and promoting sustainable environmental development. I regard our values to be the best way towards achieving a better New Zealand for all New Zealanders. To that end, these values would underpin a successful, caring, and safe society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI believe that our values will ensure first-class education and globally recognised qualifications for all New Zealand children, which will stand them in good stead for successful careers in whatever they choose to do. These values will also ensure quality teachers and will enable parents to have the choice of where they send their children to schools, regardless of what neighbourhood they live in. I believe that our values will create the first-rate, reliable health system we all deserve\u2014namely, a structure where funding goes to where it is most needed\u2014so that people receive the services and care they need in a timely manner. Most Kiwi families will have had some experience in the education and health systems over the last few years; too many of those families have had unfortunate experiences to share. This must change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI believe that our values will establish the right economic conditions for our great, innovative country to grow and prosper into a country where taxes are low, enabling people to keep, save, and invest more of their own money, where businesses can thrive thanks to low compliance costs and more investment, and where sought-after jobs with internationally competitive salaries are in abundance, so that our children will stay on our own shores. I believe that our values will put us on the track towards once again being a nation where our loved ones can walk safely to school or to the shops and can sleep soundly in their beds without the fear of an attack or invasion. Our values will mean that all New Zealanders in need are provided with a safety net, enabling them to have a good quality of life and to live their dreams. These same values will mean that those who choose welfare as a way of life, rather than as a helping hand when it is needed most, will not be rewarded for that lifestyle choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EOur values will recognise the true worth of volunteers, who are the unsung heroes of our communities, whether volunteering for an organisation, acting as parent helpers at school or in kindy, providing Meals on Wheels, organising Neighbourhood Watch, or coaching the hockey team\u2014the mere tip of the iceberg. Volunteers are our society\u2019s lifeline. Quite simply, we could not operate without them, and we need to look after them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EOur values will mean we have a clean, green New Zealand, which will be preserved for the next generation\u2014a generation that can swim in the sea, drink water from a river, and walk in the bush. Certainly, I know that I am looking forward to walking on a pristine beach with my grandchildren in years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI am very lucky to finally be standing here, delivering my maiden statement today. I am a firm believer that, to a certain degree, a person makes his or her own luck. In fact, our late Nobel Laureate Alan MacDiarmid said that he was indeed a very lucky man, and that the harder he worked, the luckier he got. I will work tirelessly during my time here to strive towards accomplishing the things that I believe will enhance our country for present and future generations. In this respect\u2014and just like Alan MacDiarmid\u2014hopefully, the harder I work, the luckier I will get. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f08e294506bb4078a5a3cb99c3242fe5\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2005/06 Financial Review) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002206b00d5b3d574fd989080024ed9a4898\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00221d0f650b446349bab8c7304090fb4bd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d0f650b446349bab8c7304090fb4bd3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2005/06 Financial Review) Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c4cf1a7b17754aeab819518d2ed63e61\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2005/06 Financial Review) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAbstentions 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022edd713be56d9491aa82db9dc893367ec\u0022\u003EMajor Events Management Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022156b3aa8511e4d4fa6ca40f5bcce2bf8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2d303600e6e4c119ec4f846106e0736\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2d303600e6e4c119ec4f846106e0736\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Sport and Recreation: I move, That the Major Events Management Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Commerce Committee, and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 15 June 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill results from New Zealand\u2019s successful bids to host the Rugby World Cup in 2011 and to co-host the International Cricket Council Cricket World Cup in 2015, both of which included a commitment to ensure that adequate provisions are in place to prevent ambush marketing. This type of legislation is now a reality for hosting major events. The financial investment made in major events by organisers and sponsors is such that it is now common practice for the organisers of those events to require appropriate ambush marketing protections to be implemented as part of the hosting agreement. Free riding of that investment by companies not associated with the event is damaging, not just for the official organisers and sponsors but also to the credibility of the event itself and the country hosting it. Legislation containing ambush marketing protections has been introduced in other jurisdictions, including those in the United Kingdom, Australia, South Africa, and the Caribbean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill is a piece of generic legislation that will apply to major events of all kinds, sporting and otherwise, as long as they meet the criteria set out in the bill. It is crucial for New Zealand to be seen as a viable host country for major events of international significance. The Government is interested in submissions about whether events other than sporting events could meet the criteria and, if not, whether the bill should be narrowed accordingly. It is important that this type of protection is available only for truly major events of international significance. It must be acknowledged that it places a limitation on business practice and commercial speech, and to apply it too widely would be to cause more problems than it solves. So the bill is based on the basic premise that the protection of those events should be for the overall benefit of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill sets out a number of criteria that determine whether an event should be declared to be a major event and attract the protections contained in the legislation. They include things such as whether the event raises New Zealand\u2019s international profile, generates significant tourism opportunities, and offers significant sporting, cultural, social, and economic benefits. Event organisers will need to apply to the Minister for Economic Development for major event status, and the Minister will be required to take all those criteria into account. The event organisers will also need to satisfy the Minister that they will use all practicable measures available under the existing law to prevent the unauthorised commercial exploitation of a major event. Those will include, for example, protecting their intellectual property through registering their trademarks. Once a major event has been declared, the Minister will also be able to declare certain words and emblems to be the major event\u2019s words and emblems. That will mean that they can be protected under the provisions of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ETwo types of activity are regulated by the legislation. The first is ambush marketing by association. That is aimed at businesses who are not the official sponsor, but who try to create some kind of association between themselves and the event. In essence, they are seeking to unfairly trade off the goodwill and reputation surrounding an event, without making the significant financial commitment that official sponsors make. Clearly that type of free-riding activity could discourage potential sponsors from investing in an event. The legislation puts in place prohibitions against that type of activity during the period of protection specified by the Minister, whether the activity is done explicitly or by more subtle means. That includes the use of tickets for promotional purposes without the authorisation of the event organiser. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnother major form of ambush marketing is ambush marketing by intrusion. That refers to the practice of unfairly intruding on the attention of spectators who are essentially gathered solely for the purpose of the major event. In essence, they are a captive audience. The legislation prevents those who are not authorised by the event organisers from displaying advertising in the area around a major event venue or, in some circumstances, if it is visible from the major events venue. It also prevents unauthorised advertising from being visible when approaching the venue. The Government is not wedded to the detail of the boundary around the venue, and I expect that will be the subject of debate at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is important to recognise, though, that this type of legislation could unfairly restrict honest practice. Plenty of businesses go about activities on a day-to-day basis that we do not want to fall foul of this legislation. Freedom of speech, including commercial freedom of speech, is crucial in a fair and democratic society, so the bill has many safeguards for honest business practice and existing right-holders. If any activity forms part of a business\u2019 honest everyday activities, it will be able to continue the activity regardless of the legislation. The legislation will not override the rights of existing trademark holders or prevent a person from using his or her own name or address in trade. Clearly, this legislation would not fulfil its aim of promoting the interests of New Zealand if it went too far or was too far-reaching. All those issues have been given consideration during the drafting of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs I have already said, the use of tickets is incorporated into the ambush marketing provisions. The bill also prohibits the on-sale of tickets at above their face value. As recent events show, those who buy up tickets and then seek to sell them at an unfair profit have deprived many Kiwi sports fans of the opportunity to attend big events. Obviously, if a consumer buys a ticket to an event and for some reason cannot attend, we do not want to prevent that person from selling his or her ticket or recouping his or her costs. It is not fair, however, when people knowingly buy up batches of tickets for the sole purpose of selling them at sometimes substantially inflated prices well beyond the means of many New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, this bill is an important step in ensuring that New Zealand is seen as a viable host country for major events of international significance. The role of those events in attracting international visitors and raising New Zealand\u2019s international profile has obvious benefits for all New Zealanders. In addition to the Rugby World Cup in 2011 and the International Cricket Council Cricket World Cup in 2015, New Zealand will also host the World Rowing Championships in 2010 and the Under-17 Women\u2019s Football World Cup in 2008. New Zealand is, of course, challenging for the America\u2019s Cup in Valencia in 2007, and if that challenge is successful the America\u2019s Cup will be held in New Zealand again in 2010-11. This bill places New Zealand well to successfully bring those events and many others to the world. The bill represents the best effort to get a balance between the competing interests that will be affected by the legislation. Different approaches can be taken on many areas in the bill. I encourage all New Zealanders, individuals and businesses, to make their submission during the select committee process so that we can end up with the fairest and most effective piece of legislation that we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022 data-id=\u00221b154369668745139687139ed43c41cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b154369668745139687139ed43c41cc\u0022\u003EHon MURRAY McCULLY (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I indicate to the House at the outset that the National Party will be voting for the Major Events Management Bill to receive its first reading and be referred to a select committee for further study\u2014a process that will be more meaningful in respect of this bill than is usually the case. As the Minister David Parker has already indicated to the House, there are some fine lines that are required to be drawn between the interests of event organisers and the commercial and private interests of members of the public. The select committee will have the delicate task of ensuring that those lines are correctly drawn if the bill is to enjoy the support of members when it comes back to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI will say a few words about why I think this bill is welcome and why the House should give it serious consideration. The Minister ran off a list of important events that are upcoming over the next few years. I am bound to say that some of them will probably not meet the criteria that are set out in the bill, although some of them undoubtedly will. Looking back into the past we see that the America\u2019s Cup event, which we hosted in New Zealand in 1999-2000, would have met the criteria set out in the bill. Clearly, the Rugby World Cup in 2011 would meet the criteria. A range of smaller events may or may not make the cut, as the case may be. But the simple fact of the matter is that events of that scale\u2014as large as the Rugby World Cup and the America\u2019s Cup\u2014cannot be hosted or conducted without very substantial commitments of sponsorship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EThe reason for this bill being before the House today is that sponsors are not prepared to make those commitments in today\u2019s world unless they can see that certain protections are going to exist to make good their investments. We have confronted those problems before in relation to the America\u2019s Cup, and found our way through them, but, as people have got more sophisticated in the marketplace and more clever at challenging the rights and investments of sponsors, the need has become clearer for a framework of rules within which to operate, in this respect. So I welcome the fact that the bill is at least an attempt to deal with such a framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a simple choice: either we decide to listen to the needs of the sponsors or we just decide we will not be in the business of hosting those sorts of events. Again, the Minister referred to a number of jurisdictions where similar issues have arisen. I am bound to say that we are somewhat behind the eight ball in relation to the hosting of major events in this country. I have been on public record for many years suggesting that this is an area of activity in which New Zealand should excel. There are examples of jurisdictions close to us that are not especially large but that have been very innovative and successful in the hosting of major events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EThe most successful I can think of, going back over a couple of decades, are major events in Melbourne, in the state of Victoria, where a large number of highly successful events not only have been encouraged but have, frankly, been bought by the state using taxpayers\u2019 money, because there has been a recognition that the spin-off benefits of hosting those events\u2014in terms of tourism, trade, promotional activity, and investment opportunity\u2014make valid the scale of the investment of taxpayers\u2019 resources. The state of Victoria has, over many years, developed this to a fine art. Other jurisdictions in Australia have been participants\u2014some on a lesser scale; some on a more significant scale\u2014but I think the shining light in this regard is, unquestionably, the state of Victoria. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI refer the House to the fact that the bill before us today is but a very small part of the fabric that is required to be dealt with if we are to become true players in this respect. The most important leading edge in this area is the process of bidding for, and attracting, these events. Currently in this country that is a relatively haphazard process. True, the Government, at a very high level, participated in the bid process for the Rugby World Cup\u2014it being for New Zealand the premier event of its type\u2014but many other events are left to the preserve of the sporting code concerned or a group of enthusiasts, as the case may be. I think there is room for greater recognition of the role of central government agencies in the bidding process, for a start. Certainly there is scope for a greater investment of the funds that are available for trade, tourism, and investment promotion in New Zealand in this area. That, too, is an area where I hope there will be an added focus if this House is to take this bill forward, because it will make that sort of attention more meaningful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EThe framework that is addressed by this bill relates purely to the area of ambush marketing, and there is some attempt here to address the issue of scalping. Those are a very small part of the total vista that is the management of a major event. As I said in my initial comments, there are some fine lines that are required to be drawn by the House, and the consequences of getting those lines wrong will be serious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EOne of the obvious areas is the buffer zone, which is provided for in this bill. Once the Minister has managed to persuade Cabinet and Cabinet has asked the Governor-General to sign off on an event as being a major event within the context of this bill, it is not just the area of the immediate event that can be the subject of restrictions that are outlined in the bill; there is a buffer zone around it so that ambush marketing cannot be embarked upon by an opponent of one of the major sponsors of the event. Obviously, some massive value judgments will be required around that. If, for example, New Zealand was to host the America\u2019s Cup again\u2014if Team New Zealand is successful\u2014then some restrictions would apply to the Viaduct Basin and the area where the event itself is contested. But the judgment call about what sort of buffer zone would be required, and what sorts of restrictions should operate within that zone, calls for the most delicate of judgments as to the competing rights of the event organisers and its sponsors, on one hand, and those who normally conduct their business in that locale, on the other hand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI say to the members of the select committee that this is an enormously complicated job and I hope they apply their minds to the task at hand in the way that is required if we are to get this matter remotely right. I commend to them the wisdom of looking at some of the examples from other jurisdictions. I emphasise, again, that we are far from market leaders in this respect; there is a lot we can learn from others. I welcome the fact that the select committee will have that opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003EI have had the opportunity to discuss this bill with the Minister Trevor Mallard, in whose name it sits, and I know that he is of an open mind about these considerations. I encourage not just those who are in the event management business today but those who are involved in the many sporting codes that will have an opportunity over future years to bring major events of this sort to New Zealand to take an interest in this framework, because it is something that will profoundly affect them if they do get to that stage. An investment in time and effort now to understand the bill and get it to some state of perfection\u2014if it is to come back to this House for further consideration\u2014is well warranted. We will see this bill go to a select committee, and I urge the select committee to do its work well, because it will be important to the final product that it does so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00228431b288e02640769e8fba214b892aa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228431b288e02640769e8fba214b892aa4\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the introduction of the Major Events Management Bill and to welcome the support of the previous speaker, Murray McCully, who indicated that the National Party will support the bill going to a select committee. That is the correct approach to take, and it is pleasing to see a constructive approach being taken to the legislation. It is important to deal with ambush marketing, given the amount of sponsorship dollars that are spent by major corporates on major events such as those that the bill will deal with. As the previous speaker observed, it is a good thing to be able to attract major events to New Zealand. In order to do that we need to have a competitive regulatory regime, similar to the regimes operated in jurisdictions that have considerable success in attracting those events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E It is interesting to consider the situation in regimes comparable with ours, particularly those in Australia. There, Olympic-related legislation and two statutes\u2014one federal, and one a statute of the Parliament of New South Wales\u2014were used to protect the Sydney Olympics. Those Acts are the Sydney 2000 Games (Indicia and Images) Protection Act 1996 and the Olympic Arrangements Act 2000. That legislation controlled street trading, the sale of tickets, and airspace and aerial advertising, and prohibited advertising on buildings or structures. Australia also has Commonwealth Games - related legislation that protected the interests of Victoria as Melbourne hosted the Commonwealth Games in 2006. It is a very similar scheme to that of the New South Wales and federal legislation. Victoria also has the Australian Grands Prix Act 1994 and the 1996 regulations made under that statute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIn South Africa there are two relevant statutory provisions, both introduced in 2001 to cater for the 2003 Cricket World Cup, and in the UK there is the London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games Act 2006. Finally, by way of comparison, in the Caribbean nations the ICC Cricket World Cup West Indies 2007 Bill has been introduced. All that legislation has broadly similar provisions to those in the bill that the Minister Trevor Mallard has introduced. They are appropriate in order to ensure that New Zealand can continue to attract major events, with the consequent benefit for our economy and the world publicity that we receive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis bill is a good bill, in my view, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u00225a2e50282aa54bd98f96d091bd9094fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a2e50282aa54bd98f96d091bd9094fe\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E United Future will also be supporting the Major Events Management Bill 2006 going to the relevant select committee. I must say that when I read through the bill and its contents, my mind immediately went back to the role I had in being part of the organising committee for the visit of Pope John Paul II to New Zealand in 1986. It was a massive undertaking. He was here for 48 hours and had face-to-face contact with more then 200,000 people, and many hundreds of thousands also saw him on TV during that time. The first thing we did was to form a company and copyright a logo for the visit, because we were so conscious, given the entrepreneurial inclinations of many Kiwis, which I greatly admire, that there would be all sorts of hucksters who would be crowding in on the events to line their own pockets with what might have been all kinds of inappropriate souvenirs and memorabilia, etc. We thought it necessary right from day one to take control and ensure we had a proper systematic system for ensuring that people who were reasonable and responsible in what they wanted to do were the only ones who could officially participate in the event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003ESo from that first-hand experience I can really appreciate the need for a bill such as this one when we come to the major events that are planned in New Zealand, starting with the Netball World Championships later this year and going through into 2015 when we host the Cricket World Cup. I guess there will be other major events that come along in the interval. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI thought the bill bulletin issued by Parliamentary Library was very, very good in the way it set out all of the reasons we need such a bill, under very interesting headings: \u201CFaking It\u201D, about rogue traders who move in; \u201CFacility Marketing\u201D; \u201CIndividual Sponsorships\u201D; and \u201CUsing the Fans\u201D. It really does prove the ingenuity, I suppose, of entrepreneurs in places like Germany who for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, where people who had no sponsorship rights whatsoever in the event, actually got a group of fans to come along\u2014for a fee, of course\u2014and wear their T-shirts. Some of us will remember that that had a pretty unfortunate effect on the sponsorship of Budweiser, which was probably short-changed by the way in which its sponsorship was ambushed by others who seized the opportunity to make a bob or two at the expense of the official sponsors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EThe issue of scalping tickets, etc., is also there in the bill bulletin. So we have no doubt at all that there is a need for a bill like this one if we are to adopt world best practice in terms of sponsoring these major events. We will follow the bill through the select committee process with interest, and hope to see it reported back to the House and eventually passed into legislation so that New Zealand can continue to be a destination of choice for major events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00221de466609aa34acb82c392f1abdba9f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221de466609aa34acb82c392f1abdba9f3\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I refer to an article by Abram Sauer, who talks about ambush marketing, which, in fact, is the principal focus of the Major Events Management Bill 2006. Abram begins his article by saying: \u201CImagine you throw a party and invite heaps of brilliant, interesting people. Imagine your roommate fails to help with the planning or the cost. Imagine the night of the party, your deadbeat roomie shows up and claims co-sponsorship. Imagine watching in awe as the freeloader takes credit for your expense and effort. Now imagine that party cost you $20M.\u201D There would be some concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWhat we are talking about here is a party that we are looking to hold in 2011. We wish to protect the rights of the sponsors that are going to put a significant amount of money into that tournament, and to give them as much protection as possible for their sponsorship dollar. It is something that unfortunately we did not do back in 2003 when we had the right to co-host the 2003 Rugby World Cup with Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI will refer to my own electorate, Hawke\u2019s Bay, and to a gentleman by the name of Tom Johnson. Tom was a colleague of my father, Kel, and played in the Hawke\u2019s Bay Ranfurly Shield era in the 1960s. Tom was a very influential man in the New Zealand rugby scene, and rose to the status of the New Zealand rugby board. It was an instigator in bringing about the initial Rugby World Cup, and as a result the initial tournament in 1987, when ambush marketing was not at its foremost. But since those days, ambush marketing has become a true science\u2014as Mr Copeland referred to it before\u2014that we should have known about when we were looking to host the 2003 Rugby World Cup. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI want to talk members through some of the stories about ambush marketing and how complex it has actually become. Let us have a look at the 1984 Olympics, where Kodak sponsored TV broadcasting of the games, as well as the US track team, despite Fuji being the official sponsor. Kodak was able to get significant mileage out of that. Let us go to the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, where Nike sponsored the press conferences with the US basketball team, despite Reebok being the games\u2019 official sponsor. Perhaps one of the greatest ambush marketing efforts of all time was the marketing feat of all-time Nike man, Michael Jordan, who was \u201CMr Air Sponsorship\u201D himself. He accepted the gold medal for basketball but covered up the Reebok logo on his kit. Nike has been the all-time champion of ambush marketing. With its association with the Rugby World Cup, it is something that I guess we need to take into consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at Nike\u2019s ambush of the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, which is probably seen as the ambush of all ambushes, according to writers on this subject. Saving the US$50 million that an official sponsorship would have cost\u2014so Nike did not actually front up with that $50 million\u2014Nike plastered the city in billboards, handed out swoosh banners for people to wave at the competitions, and erected an enormous Nike centre overlooking the stadium. It was able to obtain significant mileage over the event without putting one sponsorship dollar into the event itself. In fact, Nike has moved to the point now where it tends to sponsor individuals in teams, as opposed to events, so that it can use that as a legal form of ambush marketing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIf we have a look at the Atlanta debacle we see that many thought that Nike had been an official sponsor of the games. More recently, in a poll in 2001, a study found that from a list of 45 likely sponsors of the 2002 World Cup, 20 percent of those polled thought Nike was a sponsor when, in fact, it was not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIt is not limited to large corporates like Nike. There is a fantastic example at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City when Anheuser-Busch paid more than US$50 million to sponsor that particular event. In accordance with its agreement it got all the rights to use the word \u201COlympic\u201D and the five rings logo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3eff6fdaefb4807b8df8617f9552fd3\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Before the bell rang for the dinner break, we were debating the Major Events Management Bill, and I had just traversed the issues around ambush marketing, in particular those relating to large corporates. I talked about Nike\u2019s involvement with the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, where Nike had plastered the city in billboards, handed out swoosh banners to wave at the competitions, and erected an enormous Nike centre overlooking the stadium\u2014all ambush tactics designed to obtain a greater profile in Atlanta, even though Nike was not a key sponsor of the event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI then moved on to discuss, and I wanted to finish with, an example of a smaller company that used ambush marketing at the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. Anheuser-Busch paid more than $50 million to be a major sponsor at that event. The Schirf Brewing Company, which is a small, local company, came up with a rather ingenious and apparently legal idea of marking its delivery trucks with a brand called \u201CWasutch Beers\u2014the Unofficial Beer of the 2002 Olympic Games\u201D. So in accordance with the copyright rules, Schirf avoided using either the word \u201COlympics\u201D or the five-ring logo. However, it had, without doubt, connected itself with the games and therefore benefited from the marketing that came from that connection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESo there are big companies and small companies that benefit from ambush marketing. We even have local examples. Recently some of our own athletes used a type of ambush marketing at the last Olympic Games, with the likes of Sarah Ulmer, Bevan Doherty, and Hamish Carter, who had contradictory sponsorships between the main-game sponsors, their team sponsors, and their own personal sponsors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe fact is that there will be ambush marketing efforts at Rugby World Cup 2011. Despite this legislation that is before the House tonight, companies will not stop from working for the best position for their brand. We as a nation need to do everything in our power to stop these efforts and to maximise the genuine return for sponsors at the 2011 Rugby World Cup, at the rowing championships in 2010, at the under-17 women\u2019s football world cup in 2008, and at the Cricket World Cup, planned to be hosted here in 2015. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI suggest that if this legislation had been in place when the final stages of the negotiations for the joint hosting of Rugby World Cup 2003 were being held, we would have been in a far better position and $90 million in co-hosting rights would not have gone out of the window. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThis legislation will help in four key areas, and I will focus on those as I draw to the end of this speech. Firstly, clause 6 looks at declarations of major events, and protections for major events. So the legislation does not relate to smaller sporting occasions, or down-a-level sporting events, such as the Super 14, the National Provincial Championship, or, for that matter, other competitions on a regional or national basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ESubpart 1 of Part 2, clauses 7 to 14, deals with ambush marketing by association. Subpart 2, clauses 15 to 25, deals with ambush marketing by intrusions. Clauses 24 and 25 also deal with ticket scalping protections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI close by suggesting an area on which I think the select committee will need to focus, which is the offence and penalty regimes of the bill. A good example is the Rugby World Cup 1999 in Cardiff, where scalping was at a premium. Tickets were being marketed for prices in excess of \u00A3500. Members on a tour party I was with had bought tickets, the face value of which was about \u00A3125. They were scalped for \u00A3500. Significant money was to be made by scalpers doing that. I suggest that a $5,000 penalty to avert scalpers will just not work. Likewise for larger companies, like Nike, a $150,000 penalty will do nothing to avert them from looking at ambush campaigns\u2014campaigns that will benefit them significantly without their having to put one iota of sponsorship into the Rugby World Cup 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn summary, I believe that had this legislation been in place in 2002 it would have helped us avert the situation where we lost the joint hosting rights. I believe that this legislation will help to ensure that we get the best sponsors for the event in 2011 and that we will maximise the economic growth and the return on this investment to the whole New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022 data-id=\u00220ddeb32b7a024473a88a0aab6a3bc7f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ddeb32b7a024473a88a0aab6a3bc7f1\u0022\u003ENANDOR TANCZOS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to give a fairly brief contribution to the debate on behalf of the Green Party and to say that although we will be supporting this bill going to a select committee, we will not commit ourselves to any support beyond that. It depends on what comes out of the committee. So although we will support this reading, we have a few difficulties with the bill that we think it would be useful for the House to address, particularly in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EI have listened to the debate so far and heard a lot of talk about the disagreeable nature of ambush marketing. I do not think there is a lot of disagreement about that. It certainly seems quite wrong for a company that has contributed nothing to an event, by way of sponsorship or support in any way, to be able to hijack the event for its own promotional purposes and make a profit from the promotional opportunities it gets out of it. That seems quite wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I have to say I have a little bit of sympathy for some of the small guys. It is one thing to talk about Nike versus Reebok, for example, but I have a little bit of sympathy for New Zealand small-business operators, who certainly do contribute to such events through their tax dollars and who, for those who are local, suffer all kinds of inconvenience and hassle. They do not benefit particularly from the event, because a lot of the commercial opportunities are gobbled up by the big players. If the legislation does pass, I hope to see the enforcement agencies show some discretion, with the idea that the legislation should be used to target large commercial operators and a little bit of leeway given to some smaller businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003ESo we heard a lot about how disagreeable ambush marketing is, and how it is a terrible thing. Chris Tremaine gave us a long list of examples of how ambush marketing has been used in the past, and I do not think that any of us would say that it is not disagreeable. The question for us as parliamentarians, though, is whether this bill is a proportionate response to the problem. This House has a longstanding reputation and history of passing wildly inappropriate legislation in order to crush a minor problem \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe foreshore and seabed legislation is a very good example. We were talking about that in the House today during question time. Questions from the M\u0101ori Party very clearly demonstrated to us, once again, that we had a potential in a court finding, and the extent of the rights recognised by the court had yet to be tested. We had yet to see how large an area would even be covered by any future court findings. We had no idea of that, and the Government introduced a massive confiscation, the likes of which we have not seen for over a century in many parts of the country, in order to stamp on that. That is just one example of the kind of wildly disproportionate legislation we pass in this Parliament all the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EMy question is not whether ambush marketing is a bad thing\u2014not whether we disapprove of ambush marketing\u2014it is whether this legislation is proportionate to the problem we are trying to address. I think it is something to which we should give a lot of consideration, and it is something I do have some concerns about. We know that it is politically useful for the Government to be passing this legislation, but is it good law? We know the real reason for the talk about fairness and whatever. The real reason we are passing this legislation is so we can make sure we lock down the Rugby World Cup and the commitments that have been made in order to secure that event. That is what this is really about. So let us be clear about that in the debate we are having. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has a few difficulties with the bill, and I would like to touch briefly upon a couple of them. There will be an opportunity to deal with these difficulties in much more detail in later stages of the debate. I go, first of all, to clause 4, the \u201CInterpretation\u201D. This bill is an attempt to stop commercial operators promoting an association between their products or services and the event in question. We see that \u201Cassociation\u201D means \u201Ca relationship of connection, whether direct or implied,\u201D. The phrase \u201Cdirect or implied\u201D is kind of interesting, because we are talking about not just people who make a direct, blatant claim that their product is in some way associated with the event. \u201CImplied\u201D is a pretty ambiguous term and can cover a wide range of goods and services that are being quite legitimately promoted. So I think we have to look very carefully at the scope of the kinds of promotions that are covered by this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EThe same section states that \u201Cassociation\u201D includes \u201Coffering, giving away, or selling a ticket to a major event activity in connection with the promotion of goods or services\u201D. So, for example, it seems to me that a radio station could not even give away a ticket, because inevitably that would be a promotion for its own radio station. So a radio station could not give away tickets to an All Black game, because it would be forbidden from doing so by this definition of \u201Cassociation\u201D. That is something we should think very carefully about. Is that what we are trying to cover? Is that what we are trying to capture by means of this legislation? I am not sure, despite all the talk about Reebok and Nike, whether that is actually what we are trying to get at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EI move on to Part 2, \u201CDeclaration of major event and protections for major events\u201D. This part does not cover all events but simply ones that have been declared to be major events by Order in Council\u2014by the Governor-General, on the recommendation of the Minister for Economic Development after consultation with the Minister of Commerce and the Minister for Sport and Recreation. So they can declare that an event is a major event, then the bill covers that event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EWe would like to see something added to this part, because one of the conditions in relation to declaring an event to be major is that the Minister must be satisfied that the event organiser has the capacity and the intention to successfully and professionally stage and manage the event. One of the things it would make sense to say in a world where climate change is happening as a result of human activity\u2014it is something that is on the political agenda, and the Prime Minister has talked about us being carbon neutral\u2014is that professionally and successfully staging and managing an event includes the condition that it has to be carbon neutral and a zero waste event. Surely, in today\u2019s world that should be a criterion for successfully and professionally managing an event. It seems quite sensible that that criterion would be put in here, because if the draconian aspects or powers contained in this bill are to be brought to bear, and we are passing law to protect commercial interests, there has to be some balance in that, and there has to be something going back the other way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that in declaring a major event, the Governor-General also has the ability to declare \u201Ca major event emblems and words\u201D. The Governor-General can declare \u201Cany or all of the following: (a) an emblem to be a major event emblem: (b) a word, words if combined with other words, or a combination of words to be a major event word or major event words.\u201D That provision goes far beyond trade-marking legislation. Again, we are seeing a pretty broad application of legislation protecting commercial interests, and we have to give it some real consideration if we want to cast the net as broadly as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EClause 7(3) states: \u201CBefore making a recommendation, the Minister for Economic Development must take into account the extent to which, in relation to the major event, emblems and words require protection in order to\u2014(a) obtain maximum benefits for New Zealanders: (b) prevent unauthorised commercial exploitation at the expense of either a major event organiser or a major event sponsor.\u201D So this is all about protecting commercial interest. There is no balancing there, there is no test of reasonableness, and there is no test of whether that infringes the rights of other operators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that this is wildly unbalanced legislation. It contains some pretty draconian and wide-reaching elements, and we need to give serious consideration as to how we can tighten up the scope of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u002229c6b6c4967b47e392194f817005d079\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229c6b6c4967b47e392194f817005d079\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am standing in for my colleague Ron Mark, who is our spokesperson on this issue. Due to unforeseen circumstances, he is not able to be present in the House at this moment. I will take a short call just to make sure that New Zealand First\u2019s contribution is made to this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI say from the start that we will certainly support the Major Events Management Bill going to the Commerce Committee, because it is important that the people of New Zealand are given the opportunity to have a say on what is, I believe, very important legislation. The fact that our country will be hosting a number of international events means it is important that we ensure that those responsible for carrying out those events are protected in some way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI want to make a point in respect of the declaration of a major event. The bill states that ambush marketing protection should not be overused, and that the bill will apply only to major events. The exception to that rule will be the events that New Zealand hosts on a regular basis. I want to ask a question in regard to events like the Bledisloe Cup, which is an annual event and, for those who follow rugby, is probably considered to be a major event. I have seen on the Internet that a number of tickets have been scalped\u2014those who are selling them have obtained them through legal means, of course\u2014and I just wonder whether events like the Bledisloe Cup should not be covered in this legislation. However, having said that, I would expect that during the select committee process particular issues like that one will be covered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EAs I said, this would be a short call, and I say that New Zealand First will be supporting the bill going to a select committee. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711da1aab4ed41e5a253369771ad74fc\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I advise members that the member Te Ururoa Flavell will speak in M\u0101ori, then there will be an interpretation for the benefit of members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u002231f96aaa7eaf41aeb954c8ae62538519\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231f96aaa7eaf41aeb954c8ae62538519\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou, kia ora Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Hei te R\u0101wh\u0101 e t\u016B mai nei, ka t\u016B t\u0113tahi kaupapa whakaharahara nui nei i Te Papa-i-oea, i te papa t\u0101karo o Manawat\u016B. Ka kitea mai ai ko te p\u014Dhiri, ko ng\u0101 manuhiri t\u016B\u0101rangi, ko ng\u0101 momo whakaari, ko te tini, ko te mano. He aha te take? Ehara i te mea ko T\u0101kuta Pita Sharples e pekepeke ana, e haka ana, e h\u012Btekiteki ana me tana taiaha p\u0113nei i ng\u0101 tau toru tekau kua hipa. Ko te take e k\u014Drerohia nei, ko te whakataetae \u0101-motu nei e eke ai ko te kotahi mano toru rau kaihaka, ko te toru tekau m\u0101 rima mano t\u0101ngata ka tae atu ki Te Matatini.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EE ai ki t\u0101 te motu, k\u0101ore e kore kua nui ake, kua pai ake, kua rahi ake t\u0113nei whakataetae ki \u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 tau kua hipa. He momo pakanga kei te haere \u0101-kanikani nei, ar\u0101, mai i Te R\u014Dp\u016B Taikura toru rau kaiwhakaari, koroua mai, kuia mai, k\u014Deke mai. Rima tekau m\u0101 rima tau te pakeke o t\u0113nei hunga whakaora i ng\u0101 waiata o ng\u0101 tau kua hipa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKa rere te tangi mai o ng\u0101 manu t\u012Boriori, o ng\u0101 reo kapahaka nei ki Te Papa-i-oea tonu puta noa i te motu ki Awarua, ki Te Kao. N\u0101 ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te ao h\u014Du ka taea e te hunga k\u0101inga te whakatau ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B whakam\u012Bharo p\u0113nei i te NZ Idol, ar\u0101, m\u0101 te waea. Ka p\u0101ohotia an\u014D hoki e te Pouaka Whakaata M\u0101ori, ar\u0101, ng\u0101 \u0101rai nui \u0101-p\u0101oho nei, \u0101, m\u014D te w\u0101 tuatahi, ar\u0101 an\u014D te r\u014Dp\u016B whakam\u0101rama \u0101-reo P\u0101keh\u0101 nei, ar\u0101, ko Hakarongomai t\u0113r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKua p\u0113nei mai taku whakam\u0101rama e te Speaker m\u014D Te Matatini ki t\u0113nei whare i te mea, koi nei t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 kaupapa whakaharahara nei e ai ki t\u0101 te tangata whenua titiro. Ar\u0101 noa atu te nui o t\u0113nei hui \u0101-wh\u0101 r\u0101nei ka kitea mai ai ko te matatau o te hunga k\u0101inga ki te whakariterite i a r\u0101tou an\u014D, ka mutu, ko te hunga whakaeke, te kaha o te manaaki, ng\u0101 momo whakaari, ko ng\u0101 momo whakahaere katoa, kia eke ki te taumata o t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero: \u201CA tika \u0101 muri, ka tika \u0101 mua.\u201D He aha t\u014Dna mutunga ake? Ko te kapa haka whakam\u012Bharo rawa atu o te motu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMai an\u014D, koi nei t\u0113tahi hui whakahirahira o te ao tonu, \u0101, i t\u0113nei tau ka whakamanahia hei w\u0101hanga o te M\u0101tauranga Tau Tekau a Te Kotahitanga o ng\u0101 Motu o te Ao. I puta te k\u014Drero i te mutunga o t\u0113r\u0101 tau, ka riro m\u0101 Unesco Te Matatini e h\u0101pai i runga i te r\u0101taka o te ao.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u0101, h\u0101unga \u0113nei k\u014Drero ka p\u0101tai au i te p\u0101tai i a t\u0101tou e w\u0101nanga nei i t\u0113nei pire, he aha te take i kore ai Te Matatini i noho hei hui whakahirahira m\u014D Aotearoa, m\u014D te ao tonu i roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D te pire nei? E ai ki t\u0101 te pire, e wh\u0101 noa iho ng\u0101 hui nui nei: ko te whakataetae poitarawhiti o te ao a te tau nei, ko te whakataetae hoe waka o te ao i Karapiro a te tau 2010, ko te whakataetae whutupaoro o te ao a te tau 2011, ko te whakataetae kirikiti o te ao a te tau 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EEhara i te mea he tangata whakaiti nei au i te k\u0113mu whutupaoro engari, ar\u0101 an\u014D te p\u0101tai, kei hea te w\u0101hanga o te ao M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 whiriwhiringa o t\u0113nei mea m\u014D te hui \u0101-motu? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EM\u0113n\u0101 ka huri t\u0101tou ki te roto o Karapiro, i reira tonu te whakataetae o te ao m\u014D te waka ama. Kua tae atu t\u0113nei mea te waka ama ki ng\u0101 iwi M\u0101ori katoa o te motu ka mutu, kua eke mai te t\u012B me te t\u0101 o uta, o tai o Aotearoa nei, o t\u0101w\u0101hi an\u014D hoki ki konei. He kaupapa whakakao t\u0113nei i te hunga t\u016Bruhi. Ko te mate e p\u0113nei ana. Ahakoa i tau atu te ao ki Karapiro m\u014D taua whakataetae whakaharahara, k\u0101ore an\u014D taua kaupapa r\u0101 kia whakamanahia hei hui nui e te hunga p\u0101p\u0101ho \u0101-p\u0101keh\u0101 nei. N\u014D reira, ko t\u0101 m\u0101tou m\u0101harahara tuatahi e h\u0101ngai tonu ana ki nga tikanga hei whakatau, he aha t\u0113nei mea, ar\u0101, te hui nui whakaharahara e ai ki t\u0101 te pire nei? K\u0101ore he take o ng\u0101 w\u0101hanga e rima o roto i te w\u0101hanga marketing ambush m\u0113n\u0101 e kore t\u014D hui e eke ki te whakam\u0101rama i roto i te pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101 m\u0101tou e k\u012B nei, m\u0113n\u0101 kei te K\u0101wana Tianara te kupu whakamutunga, me k\u014Drero te Minita Whakatipuranga Rawa ki te Minita Tauhokohoko, ki te Minita H\u0101kinakina engari, me k\u014Drero an\u014D hoki ki te Minita M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAr\u0101 noa atu ng\u0101 take e p\u0113nei ana \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaro. Ko te tuatahi ko t\u0113r\u0101 e p\u0101 ana ki te hunga hokohoko me t\u014D r\u0101tou piringa ki te hunga tae mai ki Aotearoa nei i t\u0101w\u0101hi. Ki taku m\u014Dhio, kia tae mai ng\u0101 manuhiri t\u016B\u0101rangi i t\u0101w\u0101hi ki konei, ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ki ng\u0101 tikanga, ki ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te tangata whenua o te M\u0101ori, \u0113r\u0101 mea katoa te mea e hiahiatia ana. Me k\u012B, koi nei te mea hoko.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKoi nei te \u0101huatanga i Whakarewarewa, i te k\u0101inga. Kua roa a Te Arawa e m\u0101rama ana ki ng\u0101 painga o te t\u016Bruhi, ahakoa ko te mahi nui i taua takiw\u0101, ko te peke i te piriti ki ng\u0101 wai ki reira ruku kapa ai. Ko te toa e p\u016Bkanakana ana, ko te wahine \u0101taahua whiu poi nei i nga k\u0101ri pikitia nei, he \u0101huatanga kua roa e kawea ana i te kanohi me k\u012B, o Aotearoa ki t\u0101w\u0101hi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo te noho o te Minita M\u0101ori i waenganui i ng\u0101 whiriwhiringa t\u0113tahi huarahi tonu hei tiaki i te taha ki te tangata whenua, i roto i ng\u0101 mahi whakarite, whakahaere an\u014D hoki o ng\u0101 hui nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EE tika ana kia k\u014Drerohia te take nei i t\u0113nei w\u0101 i te mea, kua ara an\u014D r\u0101 te Ker\u0113me Wai 262 ki mua i te aroaro o te Taraipiunara o Waitangi, e iwa tau i muri mai o te w\u0101 i tae tuatahi atu ki reira. I t\u014Dna wh\u0101nuitanga e ai ki taua ker\u0113me, k\u0101ore te Karauna i tuku i a ng\u0101i t\u0101tou a Ng\u0101i M\u0101ori nei ki te whakatinana i t\u014D r\u0101tou tino rangatiratanga e p\u0101 ana ki \u014D r\u0101tou taonga tae atu ki ng\u0101 momo tipu, Te Reo M\u0101ori, te m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori me ng\u0101 taonga tuku iho M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101ku e k\u012B nei, kia kaua t\u0101tou e huri ki te whai i \u0113tahi ture h\u014Du p\u0113nei i t\u0113nei pire i t\u014Dna kotahi. Me titiro an\u014D hoki t\u0101tou ki ng\u0101 huarahi hei tiaki i ng\u0101 taonga tuku iho me ng\u0101 m\u0101tauranga tuku iho. E hia k\u0113 nei ng\u0101 w\u0101 he wh\u0101iti te titiro, ar\u0101, he titiro ki te mea kotahi me te kore titiro ki \u014Dna wh\u0101nuitanga, ar\u0101, ki \u014Dna p\u0101nga ki \u0113tahi atu ture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EK\u0101tahi an\u014D ka puta mai te Protected Objects Amendment Act, \u0101, kei reira tonu ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D te tiaki i ng\u0101 taonga, te rangatiratanga o te mana whenua, t\u0113nei mea te mana, otir\u0101, te w\u0101hanga ki te Karauna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo te aronga ki te ao M\u0101ori, ng\u0101 tikanga, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ar\u0101, ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga katoa o \u0113nei kupu \u201Cng\u0101 taonga t\u016Bturu\u201D he mea nui nei hei tiaki, hei pupuri nei i ng\u0101 taonga tuku iho. Kaua t\u0101tou e waiho m\u0101 t\u0113nei pire i t\u014Dna kotahi, \u0101, i t\u0113nei pire, kua ngaro, kua warewaretia. N\u014D reira i a t\u0101tou e h\u0101pai nei i ng\u0101 kupu, taputapu, tohu, haki r\u0101nei me \u0113r\u0101 atu mea, kia t\u016Bpato t\u0101tou ki ng\u0101 mahi r\u0101wekeweke \u0101 \u0113tahi i ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o roto i te ao o te tangata whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKoi nei te take tuatoru kua k\u012B ake m\u0101tou, me noho te Minita m\u014D ng\u0101 Take M\u0101ori i te t\u0113p\u016B me te Minita Whakatipuranga Rawa, te Minita Tauhokohoko me te Minita M\u0101ori. Me noho te Minita i te t\u0113p\u016B i te w\u0101 ka w\u0101nangahia ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kia tiaki tonu i te \u0101huatanga ki te tangata whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMe tae atu te Minita ki ng\u0101 tohunga p\u0113nei i ng\u0101 mea o Waka Toi me \u0113r\u0101 atu r\u014Dp\u016B kua roa e kauhau ana m\u014D te kaitiakitanga o ng\u0101 taonga tuku iho. An\u0101, m\u0101 t\u0113nei kua whai mana te kupu o te Minita ki te tiaki i ng\u0101 taonga. N\u014D reira, ka tautoko te T\u014Drangap\u016B M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire i a ia e tiaki ana i ng\u0101 taonga tuku iho. E tautoko ana m\u0101tou kia noho te Minita M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 whiriwhiringa. Kia aha ai? Kia noho m\u0101rama tonu te ao M\u0101ori kai reira tonu te \u0101huatanga o te ao M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 nekeneke o t\u0113nei pire. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, and thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Greetings to you and to us all. An event of national significance will take place at Arena Manawat\u016B in Palmerston North this coming Thursday. A welcome, overseas visitors, and all forms of visual displays will be seen by a vast audience at the opening pageant. And what is the occasion? It will not be Dr Pita Sharples springing to his feet, wielding his taiaha, and strutting his stuff as he has done for the past three decades, but rather a national event of major momentum, involving some 1,300 performers attracting crowds of up to 35,000 to the Te Matatini National Kapa Haka Festival. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis year\u2019s festival promises to be bigger, better, and larger than previous ones. A kind of national showdown is expected from 300 performers of Taikura made up of grandparents and great-grandparents of the 55-plus age group that will bring to life old treasured songs of their day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ECommunications will be high-tech and designed to pump up the vibe, whether in Palmerston North or throughout the land from Bluff to Te Kao. Because of present-day technology, people at home will be able to take part in the voting by using the same format as that of the ever popular NZ Idol by texting in their vote for the top kapahaka group. M\u0101ori Television will cover the event and provide a simultaneous webcast. There will be big screens, a live-to-air broadcast, and, for the first time ever, Hakarongomai, an interpretation service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI have taken the time to introduce the House to the magic of Te Matatini because it represents a major event of all major events, in the eyes and ears of tangata whenua. This 4-day festival is on a spectacular scale requiring huge organisational efforts, corporate and hospitality facilities, exhibitions, and of course technical administration and management to satisfy that saying: \u201CWhen the work at the back is right, what happens in front will be right as well.\u201D What will come of this? The greatest kapahaka festival of the land!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe festival has established such a significant reputation on the international scene that this year it was recognised as part of the United Nations Decade of Education for Sustainable Development. In a partnership announced at the end of last year, Unesco will promote Te Matatini as a premier cultural event on the international festival calendar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EGiven all of this as we debate this bill, I have to ask the question why Te Matatini is not recognised and contained in this Major Events Management Bill for New Zealand and indeed the world. The bill specifically identifies four key sporting major events: the Netball World Championships in 2007, the World Rowing Championships at Karapiro in 2010, the International Rugby Board Rugby World Cup in 2011, and the International Cricket Council Cricket World Cup in 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt is not as though I am one to belittle the game of rugby, but there is the question of where M\u0101ori fit into the decision-making process around the determination of what constitutes a national event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIf we turn to Lake Karapiro, where the international waka ama competition was held: waka ama has impacted on all M\u0101ori, up and down the land; consequently, it attracts participants, supporters, and onlookers from within New Zealand and overseas. It has been a huge drawcard for a raft of marketing and tourism opportunities. But the catch is that even though the world has come to Lake Karapiro for that magnificent competition, mainstream media have yet to recognise it as a major event. So our first concern for the purposes of this legislation relates to what constitutes a major event. The five categories of ambush marketing amount to nothing, if an event cannot even make the criteria in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhat we are advocating is that if the Governor-General has the final say, then the Minister for Economic Development should consult not only with the Minister of Commerce and the Minister for Sport and Recreation, but also with the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are a host of other matters that concern us. The first relates to obvious commercial imperatives associated with the opportunity for a large number of international participants or spectators who come to this land. My understanding is that when international visitors come to this land the unique cultural capital and heritage of the first-nation people, the people of the land, is an obvious marketing point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis is the situation at home in Whakarewarewa. Te Arawa has been aware of the benefits of tourism for a long time, even if the main focus of that area was jumping off the bridge and diving for pennies. Postcard images of warriors grimacing, and of beautiful maidens twirling poi, have long been the face of New Zealand on the international scene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe involvement of the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs in negotiations regarding the appropriate management and coordination of these major events is a way of protecting tangata whenua\u2019s longstanding and established profile.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt is appropriate that this matter be aired at this time, because Wai 262 has been brought before the Waitangi Tribunal once again, 9 years after its first hearing. In its broadest sense, Wai 262 claims that the Crown has failed in its responsibility to allow M\u0101ori to exercise their rangatiratanga in respect of their taonga, including flora and fauna, te reo Maori, m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori cultural property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhat I am saying is that we should not head off in pursuit of other pieces of new legislation like this stand-alone one. We should be looking at ways to protect M\u0101ori cultural and intellectual property. There have been numerous times when a narrow view has been taken\u2014for instance, where a piece of legislation is viewed in isolation without looking at how others are affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe impacts of the Protected Objects Amendment Act have only just come into force\u2014provisions that consider the protection of taonga, the rangatiratanga of mana whenua, the vexed issue of ownership, and the appropriate role of the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ERespect for M\u0101ori culture, history, or society, as preserved under \u201Cng\u0101 taonga t\u016Bturu\u201D is a key means of protecting and retaining our cultural heritage and must not just rest within the parameters of legislation passed last year and seemingly in the context of this Act now forgotten and lost. So in the promotion of major event emblems and words\u2014devices, seals, badges, logos, flags, banners, signs, or other visual images\u2014we must take ever-practicable measures to prevent commercial exploitation or misuse of images that are indigenous cultural property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis is the third reason why we say that the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs should sit at the table with the Minister for Economic Development, the Minister of Commerce, and the Minister for Sport and Recreation. At the time of negotiations, the Minister must be at the table to safeguard aspects that relate to tangata whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs has access to appropriate cultural expertise of organisations such as Te Waka Toi, and those groups and specialists who have for years advocated for the protection of intellectual and cultural property. In other words, what the Minister has to say about the preservation of indigenous taonga has integrity. As long as the Minister is there to protect cultural property, the M\u0101ori Party will support this bill. We support the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs\u2019 involvement in the negotiations, so that M\u0101oridom is clear that aspects relating to them are retained as the bill is progressed. Greetings to us. ]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c19cec1996dd43bc977c9d1ba0239343\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c19cec1996dd43bc977c9d1ba0239343\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014Tamaki):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to be able to rise and speak in support of the Major Events Management Bill. New Zealand is a great sporting nation, and New Zealanders love their sport. It means an enormous amount to us that in the coming years a number of world championships will be held here, and it is very important that we hold them very, very well. Right at the forefront of our minds, of course, is the Rugby World Cup. I guess one of the reasons it is right at the forefront of our minds is the dithering of the Minister for Sport and Recreation. But, in addition to that, the world rowing championships are coming and, of course, the Cricket World Cup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EWhat is being proposed in this bill is no different from what is happening in other jurisdictions. The Black Caps will shortly be off to the West Indies, with a magnificent series victory against Australia behind them. They will be competing in a sports event where the same sorts of rules will apply, just as they applied at the Olympic Games in Sydney and the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne. What New Zealand is doing is no different from what is happening everywhere else. But it is great to see the way that we are positioning ourselves now, as a country that is capable of hosting major world events, and capable of doing it in such a way that people from other countries will come down here and support them. The Government\u2019s role is to ensure that the environment is right so that those people who put their time, their effort, their expertise, and their money into making an event successful actually have a fair opportunity to make sure that that happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThis is not unduly restrictive legislation; there were significant protections in the Act. The threshold at which the legislation will cut in is very high. Obviously, I have some reservations that the present Minister for Sport and Recreation will have powers in a matter such as this, but I do take a lot of confidence in the knowledge that by the time the Rugby World Cup reaches New Zealand a National Government will be in office, and it will be a National Minister who will have this responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EIt is right that those who make a significant financial contribution to enable these events to be held have the opportunity to get a fair return. I know, from my experience of years spent being involved as a volunteer at national and provincial level in sporting organisations, just how difficult it is to put things together to get the funding to run the activity, and to give those who support us a fair opportunity to get the publicity, the business, and the rewards they are entitled to, as a result of their investment. There are those who will tell us that a totally free market should operate, and that it is fair somebody should take advantage of a commercial opportunity to grab the moment and make a dollar. But we need to understand that if we are going to host these major events and make a success of them, the environment must be such that those who support an event, often over a large number of years in an ongoing commitment, have a fair opportunity to get a return. That is what this bill will provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EOne of the particularly pleasing features of the bill from my point of view is the restriction it puts on what is described as the scalping of tickets. When I think back to my years as a school principal, I know that one of the things that really used to frustrate me was that the schoolteachers who worked for me Saturday after Saturday, evening after evening, and year after year, were never able to get tickets to the big events in the sports to which they gave so much of their time. I very well remember on one occasion being in the hospitality box at Eden Park, and looking around and wondering where the schoolteachers were. Where were the people who week after week, year after year, were providing the framework for sport for our young people? They were not in the hospitality boxes. Often, they were not even in the ground. At least, with some protection against scalping, those ordinary New Zealanders who year after year make a voluntary commitment to their sport, who do not work for some big corporate or some big organisation, and who do not have the ability to somehow fiddle tickets, will get a bit of an opportunity to have a fair go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003ELet us never, ever forget that the base for any successful activity lies in its roots. It lies in those ordinary New Zealand volunteers who, as I have said, day after day, week after week, year after year, front up because of their love for their activity, and their commitment to young people and to making sure these things happen. It is very important that when the Rugby World Cup reaches New Zealand in 2011, for example, and when the Cricket World Cup is here a few years later, those people have a fair opportunity to participate and to be involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThis is thoughtful legislation. It is carefully thought out. It is to meet a specific purpose. It is not unduly restrictive but it is fair. It is fair to those people who are prepared to put their money where their mouths are, who are prepared to make their commitment, and who are prepared to make something happen\u2014and it is very important. I know from my own experience that it is very important that when people make a commitment to an activity, particularly a big commitment, they have to make that commitment some years out. They need a degree of certainty around what they can expect, what sort of return they will get, and what sort of environment they will be in. They need to have the incentive to keep that commitment ongoing. No business interest in its right mind will be in a position to put up large sums of money to promote activities if it cannot see that the environment will give it a fair opportunity to promote its product, to promote its name, and to make the community aware of the support the business is giving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThese days there are partnerships between volunteers, participants, business interests, administrators, ground authorities, local authorities, and Governments. Each bit of the partnership has to be made to work. The partnership will not work if some of its elements feel they are not going to have an opportunity to have a fair go. For those reasons, I am very pleased to be able to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2be6e0cb4204ecca88d31e08ec5838e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2be6e0cb4204ecca88d31e08ec5838e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Sport and Recreation: I move, That the Major Events Management Bill be referred to the Commerce Committee and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 15 June 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b94b380c81a8481c82455e2d109fbb2a\u0022\u003EJudicial Retirement Age Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022712e89e5f18843e4801c6e2e02251de3\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf41eba5d20844c2aa0888185dbf1de5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf41eba5d20844c2aa0888185dbf1de5\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Judicial Retirement Age Bill be now read a second time. I thank the Justice and Electoral Committee for its efficient consideration of this bill. The bill raises the retirement age for all judges of all courts, Associate Judges of the High Court, coroners, and community magistrates from 68 to 70 years. The committee sought comment from the Chief Justice and the Chief District Court judge, both of whom agreed wholeheartedly with the bill. As a result, the committee has reported this bill back quickly and recommended that it be passed without amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe bill is very simple and straightforward. Its sole purpose is to raise the statutory retirement age for all judges and certain other judicial officers. This will bring New Zealand in line with other jurisdictions including Australia, Ireland, and the United Kingdom. The bill will enable experienced judges to provide their services for a longer time. It will also ensure that those who are eligible for appointment to the bench will be more attracted to it, because they will have the ability to remain on the bench for a longer time. This will, hopefully, encourage more practitioners and academics to consider a career on the bench. I mentioned earlier, in my first reading speech, that there are two other things that the bill will do: it will help ensure judicial independence, and it will help ensure that there is no reason for judges to be monitored for incapacity reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI have circulated two Supplementary Order Papers to the bill. The first Supplementary Order Paper removes clause 3, which provides the purpose of the bill\u2014namely, \u201Cto increase the statutory retiring age of Judges, Associate Judges of the High Court, coroners, and Community Magistrates\u201D. Once the bill has been divided into six bills, clause 3 will no longer be necessary. The second Supplementary Order Paper divides the bill into six separate amendments, respectively amending the Judicature Act 1908, the District Courts Act 1947, the Employment Relations Act 2000, Te Ture Whenua Maori Act 1993, the Coroners Act 1988, and the Coroners Act 2006. Again, I thank the Justice and Electoral Committee for its swift consideration, and I look forward to the swift action of this House to pass this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022420f7d03c8234e1aa5151253b6383f47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022420f7d03c8234e1aa5151253b6383f47\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E National supports the second reading of the Judicial Retirement Age Bill. I thank the Minister for Courts, the Hon Rick Barker, for his generous comments about the work of the Justice and Electoral Committee. For reasons that I will develop later, perhaps it could be said that we in the committee moved too quickly. Certainly, that is what the Law Society thought. It submitted a letter to us after the bill had been reported back to the House in which it raised a number of points. Out of deference to the Law Society I will mention in the course of my speech some of the arguments it advanced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAs the Minister said, we resolved not to call for public submissions on the bill, as we considered that it was straightforward and uncontroversial. We certainly did invite comments from the Chief Justice and the Chief District Court Judge on the bill, and both endorsed its intention and supported its progression. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBecause this is the first time the issue has been before Parliament for over a quarter of a century, I thought it would be useful simply to trace, by reference to the Judicature Act, how the question of the age of retirement has developed over the years. Section 13 of the Judicature Act 1908 was amended as from 24 December 1980 to substitute the expression \u201C68\u201D for the expression \u201C72\u201D. So for a number of years there were judges who could retire at 72, but the age was reduced to 68 from 1980. I took the liberty of looking up the Hansard of the debate in 1980\u2014Volume 434, at page 4172. In fact, the only reference to the provision\u2014it was part of a Courts Amendment Bill\u2014stated that clause 86 reduced the age of retirement to 68 years, and that it was based on the recommendations of the Royal Commission on the Courts, which had been chaired by the late Sir David Beattie. There was no discussion on the rationale for the provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E So it may be helpful today to set out some of the thinking behind this current legislation to increase the retirement age from 68 to 70. The first point that can be made is that, as the Minister said, the age of 70 is in line with other jurisdictions. The Minister mentioned the United Kingdom, Ireland, and Australia, and reference could also be made to 24 states in the United States. Apparently, there is no mandatory retirement age at the federal level in the United States. For example, Justice Stevens of the United States Supreme Court is aged about 85, and over the years a number of judges have served in that great court who have been even older than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EFor many years there was no specified retirement age for certain classes of judge in the United Kingdom. Lord Denning, for example, a former Master of the Rolls, was still going in his 80s. Apparently, he was on record as saying he had all Christian virtues except resignation. I think he finally retired when he was about the age of 90. That probably is far too old to be sitting as a judge\u2014although, apparently, the age of 90 for retirement is still the law of the state of Vermont. [Interruption] Jonathan Hunt will be long gone before he is 90. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Law Society made the point that perhaps the age could be increased back to 72, but when one looks at the international comparison, one sees that the age of 70 seems to be consistent with those of other jurisdictions, and I support 70. It could well be that within a reasonably short period of time we revisit this issue and decide to bump it up to 72. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAnother point the Law Society made in its belated submission was to express concern that if the age was kept at 70 it would not be possible for some judges, in the course of their careers, to have a decent period of time on the Court of Appeal then a decent period of time on the Supreme Court if they were promoted. For myself, I do not think that is sufficient justification to move the retirement age to 72 for Supreme Court judges. I think it is best to keep the age at 70 for all judges, as the bill, indeed, provides. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EAnother matter the Law Society raised was the possible impact on judicial superannuation. It expressed a concern that if the age was moved, the subsidy rates for judicial superannuation could be decreased. Nothing of that sort has been referred to in the bill, let alone discussed. I really think that is an argument that need not detain the House, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Law Society makes a very important point that, from a constitutional point of view, it is important that we not have too many temporary judges, or judges who are appointed on a short-term basis. I certainly endorse that view, but I do not really think it is a problem at the moment, notwithstanding the relatively short careers of Justice Gault and Sir Kenneth Keith, for example, on the Supreme Court. Indeed, increasing the age to 70 will mean that people are able to go on to the bench at the age of 55 and expect to have at least 15 years on the bench, during which time they can make a huge contribution to the law in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe final point that the Law Society raised was that if a judge is appointed then retires, he or she can still be an acting judge until the age of 72. The society suggested that that age could be altered so that judges could sit as temporary judges until aged 75. For myself, I do not agree with that. I think that if a judge serves as a full-time judge up to the age of 70, there may be special reasons why that person could stay on for an extra couple of years, but I do not think it is a good thing from a policy point of view for judges to be able to come back and sit for as much as 5 further years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Law Society was concerned that we had not considered these arguments. I can assure the House that I read very carefully what the society said and reflected on it, even though the submission was received a little late. But, on balance, I think this bill strikes a very good balance. Seventy years seems to be the right age, and, as I said, at some later stage we can always revisit that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI do not know that there is too much more that one can say about this legislation. It should be able to move through its remaining stages reasonably quickly. I think it is a good move, and for that reason the National Party supports the second reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022 data-id=\u0022e28f2cdb74dc4b97865d4a0a59177206\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e28f2cdb74dc4b97865d4a0a59177206\u0022\u003EDr RICHARD WORTH (National):\u003C/span\u003E This is a short bill with a planned, speedy passage. Its history is that having been introduced on 8 November last year, it was read a first time on 15 November. Then, as Mr Finlayson has said, it went off to the Justice and Electoral Committee where it was robustly dealt with. It returned on 8 December last year to this House, and now it faces a second reading, which National supports\u2014as I understand do other parties in Parliament tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIt is an interesting point that most people the world over want to retire, generally, in their early 60s, but there are dramatic exceptions including popes, United States Supreme Court justices, and dictators. I would say that the exceptions are becoming increasingly problematic, with the extension of life brought about by modern medicine. If the only effect of medicine were to postpone incapacity, so that instead of becoming incapable of work at 70 one became incapable of work at 80, increased longevity would not pose a social problem\u2014or at least a problem that concerns us here. The problem arises from the fact that medicine increases the average period in which a person remains alive, despite physical or mental incapacity. Medicine does not merely increase the length of life; it also increases the length of \u201Csick\u201D life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIf one looks around the world, one sees that the entire trend is against fixed retirement ages. That seems a mistake. It is premised on the correct observation that people decay at different ages, so setting any age of mandatory retirement, designed to make sure that people incapacitated by age are removed, will remove some people who are not incapacitated. But, I guess, that observation merely identifies one cost of mandatory retirement, and the benefits must also be considered. And they are, in fact, quite great, because of the cost of removing people on the basis of individualised determinations of incapacity. Not only are such determinations often very difficult to make, unless the individual has deteriorated to an extremely low level, but there is a justified concern that they may be used selectively to remove political enemies or professional rivals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe crunch issue in the New Zealand Parliament that relates to fixing a mandatory retirement age revolves around two pieces of legislation. The first is the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and the second is the Human Rights Act. In terms of those two pieces of legislation, fixing a mandatory retirement age necessarily gives rise to a case of discrimination on the grounds of age, which is contrary to those two Acts. So it becomes necessary to consider whether that prima facie\u2014as the lawyers would say\u2014discrimination is justifiable, and that involves considering section 5 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Without wading into legal swamps, I tell members that that provision states that subject to another provision of the Bill of Rights Act, \u201Cthe rights and freedoms contained in this Bill of Rights may be subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003E This is not a local or domestic New Zealand issue; this same issue is before the United Nations, as is indicated in comments made by the United Nations Human Rights Committee. The committee, in one of its statements on the issue of non-discrimination, stated, \u201C\u2026 not every differentiation of treatment will constitute discrimination, if the criteria for such differentiation are reasonable and objective and if the aim is to achieve a purpose which is legitimate under the Covenant.\u201D That is the examination I would like to speak about, in the short time I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Court of Appeal has discussed the question of justification on several occasions. Very broadly, the court has stated that one has to look at three issues in seeing whether discrimination is justified. First, what objective is Parliament endeavouring to achieve by the provision? Second, what is being done rationally connected to that objective? Third, is the means chosen to achieve the objective \u201Cproportionate\u201D, given the nature of the right being limited?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EJust looking briefly at those issues, we see quite clearly that the independence of the judiciary is an objective of fundamental importance, and other provisions in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act spell that out. It is fair to say that mandatory judicial retirement is rationally connected and proportionate to that objective. As Mr Finlayson has said in his review of what the case is in other jurisdictions, the appropriateness of mandatory retirement ages has been recognised in a number of them. Some jurisdictions, as Mr Finlayson has said\u2014notably United States federal courts\u2014have lifetime tenure, so without a retirement age one can be there literally till one drops, although others, such as transnational courts and the Constitutional Court of South Africa, have term appointments with or without a mandatory retirement age. That is another way this issue could have been addressed. Instead of having a mandatory retirement age, the New Zealand Parliament could have said that judges would have security of tenure, could discharge their obligations in a fearless manner, and would have 20 years to do that in, if they lasted that period. So there are some real issues around lifetime tenure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EIn completing my comments on this legislation, I will just pick up on two points. The first one is that this legislation is not a significant change in any real way. We are lifting the age of retirement from 68 to 70 years and, as others have said, the age used to be 72 years. But I am aware that there is a wish by some members of the judiciary to be part-time judges. I express the hope that as a result of making this change and lifting the retirement age to 70, the system will not yield for the possibility of judges to become part-time judges, because I would say to the members of this House that judging is a full-time profession. There is not, and should not be created, an opportunity for judges to come and go as they fit their judicial obligations around, perhaps, a score of other activities. I say firmly that there is no place in New Zealand\u2014despite judicial requests to the contrary\u2014for having part-time judges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003EThe other point, which I just note in passing, is that those of us who were in Parliament when we looked at the abolition of the Privy Council and the establishment of the Supreme Court, thought that it was appropriate to provide the possibility for acting judges of the Supreme Court\u2014our highest court\u2014to remain in office until the age of 75. I am talking about only acting judges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d21515bb-0193-4167-a21d-982058b53604\u0022\u003ESo we have come to the view that it is appropriate to lift the age of retirement for judges, associate judges of the High Court, coroners, and community magistrates, from 68 to 70. There is no necessary magic in that 70-year age barrier, but let us see how that works and whether it has the intended consequences for which the Government hopes. National supports the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2a7c5fa9b2a4ab78547d8c126d6230f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2a7c5fa9b2a4ab78547d8c126d6230f\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa i te Whare. Six sentences is all that the Justice and Electoral Committee came back to us with on this Judicial Retirement Age Bill, because, the report states\u2014and I like this bit: \u201CWe resolved not to call for public submissions on this bill as we considered that the effect of the bill was straightforward and uncontroversial.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAt first glance, so it might seem, because all the bill talks about is raising the age when judges have to retire from 68 to 70. But when we look at the statistics and we see that P\u0101keh\u0101 men live to 77 but M\u0101ori men die at around 69, we very quickly realise that becoming a judge is not such a wise career choice for tangata whenua. If we are M\u0101ori, we ask ourselves how a society that can value its judges so highly can allow its indigenous people to die younger than the rest of the population every single year for as long as statistics have been kept. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ERaising the age for judges to retire fits with the way the rest of the world is going, and 70 seems to be the norm. But, thankfully, this bill is not just about age; it also confirms the independence of the judiciary from politicians, and that is a very important principle in a world driven by politics that are clearly anti-M\u0101ori. This bill will let judges do their jobs free of any concern about job security, and free of the rantings and ravings of loose-lipped politicians who demand that judges jump through their twisted hoops or be dumped from the bench. The judiciary needs as much separation from that kind of thinking as possible if it is to function effectively, and any protection this bill can provide will be welcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe other positive spin-off, of course, is that the bill enables the judiciary to retain the expertise and experience of people who still have much to offer. It is appropriate here that I mihi to our longest-serving judge, Eddie Taih\u0101k\u016Brei Durie, who has served in a wide range of jurisdictions for more than 32 years. Hon Justice Durie, the first M\u0101ori Chief Judge of the M\u0101ori Land Court and, later, a judge of the High Court, retired just a couple of months ago, in December 2006. During his time as chairman of the Waitangi Tribunal Justice Durie oversaw many important land claim reports that led to the Treaty of Waitangi being enshrined in law almost 20 years ago. During his time he also promoted the importance of the values and ethics of M\u0101ori research, and showed how a lot of research was being judged according to the colonisers\u2019 agenda and ignored what he described as \u201Cthe depth of the ancestral opinions that influenced M\u0101ori thinking\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EYet this most brilliant of judicial minds is now lost to us because he is too old\u2014a huge loss to M\u0101oridom, to the judiciary, and to our society at large. This is a man who at 34 was the youngest judicial appointment to the M\u0101ori Land Court, rose to become Chief M\u0101ori Land Court Judge, then at the tender age of 40 became the first M\u0101ori appointed to the High Court. Now, because he has reached the age of 68, his judicial expertise is lost to us all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EHow frustrating that must be for him, particularly in the light of the work that his brother Professor Mason Durie has done in voicing the experiences of older M\u0101ori in his 2002 report, Ng\u0101 \u0100huatanga Noho o te Hunga Pakeke M\u0101ori: E t\u016B te huru m\u0101, haramai e noho, subtitled, \u201CTo the elderly who have reached the pinnacle, remain as a guiding light for us all\u201D. Mason Durie\u2019s report recognises clearly that M\u0101ori still hold dear to the view that kaum\u0101tua and kuia are to be valued for the wisdom, experience, and learning they bring to everyday life, and also recognises the many and varied roles expected of an older M\u0101ori person: \u201CThe roles of kaum\u0101tua include: resolving disputes and conflicts between families and between iwi, carrying the culture, recognising and encouraging the potential of younger members, cultural guidance and advice, maintenance of protocol, reception and care of visitors, protection and nurturing of younger adults and children, performance of ceremonial duties, spiritual leadership, and attendance at tangihanga.\u201D So much is expected of our old people that one gets dizzy just thinking about it. Maybe that is what Te Ururoa Flavell means when he says that we need to keep going to the gym every day just to train for our greatest role: being old. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EFor some cultures, getting shunted into an old people\u2019s home and left to die lonely is what an old person has to look forward to. But for M\u0101ori, being a kaum\u0101tua or kuia is an extremely busy and productive time. For M\u0101ori, being old is not a sin. It is an opportunity to use one\u2019s experience to help guide the next generations, and, of course, to help spoil the mokopuna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMaking our most experienced and capable judges redundant because they have reached a particular age simply does not make sense. Extending the age for retirement has to be a good idea, and the case of the Hon Justice Eddie Durie simply confirms the need for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis brings me naturally to the question of what we do with people of such knowledge, people who have the respect of all sectors of our society and the confidence of jurists the world over. Well, it just so happens that there may indeed be a position befitting a man of such unquestioned qualification in the field of Treaty issues. On Waitangi Day I proposed the idea of a Treaty Commissioner to protect and promote the rights and interests of the Treaty of Waitangi in the same way that Laurie O\u2019Reilly so passionately advocated for children\u2019s rights during his time as Commissioner for Children. I referred to the Treaty Commissioner\u2019s role in my reply to the Prime Minister\u2019s speech, and I repeat that role here: to honour the vision of those who signed the Treaty; to promote the Treaty\u2019s commitment to partnership; to support M\u0101ori rights to control and authority over their treasures; to ensure that Waitangi Day is meaningful for all citizens of Aotearoa; to review any decision made in respect of the Treaty by the Government; to raise awareness and understanding of the Treaty; to be an advocate for the Treaty; and to promote the proper application of the Treaty in legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe next thing I thought about, of course, was the kind of expertise, experience, and status required for such a key role: the intellectual capacity to review Government decisions regarding the Treaty; the legislative know-how to be able to promote the application of the Treaty across our statutes; the background required to honour the vision of those who signed the Treaty; and the special leadership needed to make the Treaty live in the hearts and minds of all citizens of Aotearoa. When I started looking for suitable contenders one name kept coming to mind: the Hon Justice Eddie Durie, a hugely significant figure in our legal landscape who is noted for saying: \u201CIf M\u0101ori are the tangata whenua, the original people, then P\u0101keh\u0101 are the tangata Tiriti, those who belong to this land by right of the Treaty.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party welcomes this Judicial Retirement Age Bill as a positive way of keeping the senior members of the judiciary so that we can keep some of the finest thinkers and practitioners of the legal profession, and for opening up the pool of contenders for the unique position of New Zealand\u2019s first Treaty Commissioner. We look forward to working with those proactive and intellectually superior politicians and their equally superior parties who are willing to support the establishment of this new position. Kia ora t\u0101tou. T\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb82919a4e9c4558a7644ef2d0b0df31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb82919a4e9c4558a7644ef2d0b0df31\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure, as the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, to stand and speak in support of the Judicial Retirement Age Bill. In doing so I want to acknowledge all members of the select committee who, with their unanimous and common-sense approach, enabled this bill to come back to this House in a timely manner, which means that it can very quickly take effect .\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe bill raises the statutory retirement age for all judges, associate judges of the High Court, coroners, and community magistrates from 68 to 70 years. The committee sought comment from the Chief Justice and the Chief District Court Judge, both of whom agreed wholeheartedly with the bill, and that enabled us to report it back very quickly. The current retirement age for judges is low by international standards. Increasing the retirement age retains the valuable knowledge and experience of judges for longer and brings us into line with other jurisdictions, including Australia, Ireland, and the United Kingdom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee recommended that the bill be passed without amendment, and I am very happy to stand here in this House and reinforce that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b51ef30238ec4f4a8c9919face946a52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b51ef30238ec4f4a8c9919face946a52\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Again I stand on behalf of New Zealand First, and particularly on behalf of my colleague Ron Mark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI want to say right from the start that there is a saying: \u201CThere is nothing like experience.\u201D It seems to me that this bill recognises the experience of those who are charged with the responsibility of looking after our legislative requirements. It is good to see that although we accept New Zealand is a unique country, we do not believe its uniqueness should extend to the fact that we are the only country at this point of time where members of the judiciary are required to retire at the age of 68. Given that the bill highlights a number of countries where members of the judiciary do not need to retire earlier than the age of 68, it seems appropriate that we should make the best use of our best legal brains. It also seems to me that it is appropriate that this legislation provides an opportunity for those practitioners who want to give up work as a practitioner and sit on the bench. This bill certainly provides that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI just want to make some comments about a member\u2019s bill that New Zealand First is responsible for: the Treaty of Waitangi (Removal of Conflict of Interest) Amendment Bill. It suggests that retired High Court judges and M\u0101ori Land Court judges should be able to fulfil the position of chairperson of the Waitangi Tribunal. I hope, given the comments made by the spokesperson from the M\u0101ori Party, and particularly recognising the experience of and the high regard we have for the Hon Justice Durie, that the M\u0101ori Party members will lend their support to that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EI reiterate the support of New Zealand First for this legislation. I note that the report from the Justice and Electoral Committee does not identify who was on that committee. I am not quite sure whether that is an oversight that needs to be corrected. But suffice it to say that we will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u00224dd8089f3d5a4bdc892b0a412cc48053\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dd8089f3d5a4bdc892b0a412cc48053\u0022\u003EKATE WILKINSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will take only a brief call in relation to this bill, in support of it. In speaking to the bill, which as we have heard increases the retirement age for judges, coroners, etc., from 68 to 70 years of age, it is perhaps opportune to reflect on the arbitrary nature of age itself, and age limits themselves. When is old too old\u2014when is one too old to function\u2014and, conversely, when is one old enough? This bill is not about saying that at 70 one is too old to carry out one\u2019s duties and obligations; it is about setting an arbitrary age at which judges, coroners, justices, etc. must retire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWhenever we look at the issue of age, whether in terms of too young or too old, we will always see inconsistencies. For example, throughout the alcohol purchasing age legislation we learnt that someone can marry at 18, go to war at 18, hold a firearms licence at 16, drive a motor vehicle at 15, and sell adult material at any age\u2014although not buy it at any age\u2014yet if the bill had progressed young people would not have been able to buy a beer at 18. What arbitrary age restrictions do is remove the requirement for any subjective assessment as to a person\u2019s maturity, sense of responsibility, and ability. It is similarly so with judges, because under the Judicial Retirement Age Bill the age of retirement is upon them at 70, whether or not they like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWe have heard the comparisons with other countries. Our existing retirement age is 68, which is relatively young\u2014it is interesting that the closer one comes to such an age, the younger that age seems. By comparison, in the United Kingdom, Australia, and Ireland the retirement age is 70. In Canada it is as high as 75. Just out of interest I asked the Minister the current ages of our judges, and I would like to mention them for the record. Of our current District Court judges three are under 40 years of age, with 25 between the ages of 41 and 50, 82 between the ages of 51 and 60, 12 between the ages of 61 and 64, and nine between the ages of 65 and 68. By comparison, of the High Court judges seven are between the ages of 40 and 50, 14 between the ages of 51 and 60, nine between the ages of 61 and 64, and two between the ages of 65 and 68. So I think we could say that they are a pretty young bunch, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons given by the Minister for a compulsory retirement age is that of judicial independence. I totally agree that the separation of powers is vital to the integrity of our democracy. Judges must\u2014and must be able to\u2014act independently of the executive, and of us. Similarly, we should not blame judges for giving inadequate sentences to criminals when it is members of Parliament as lawmakers who provide them with the rules for such sentences. If we do not like that we need to change the law, not criticise the judges. That is the essence of judicial independence and separation of powers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ESo I speak in support of this bill, although it must be re-emphasised that 70 years of age is not an indication of either ability or inability; it is an arbitrary age limit, and for many it is still very young. Even by fixing the age limit at 70 years we will be losing valuable judicial resources on the bench, but it is important that we set some age limit, and 70 years of age certainly seems consistent with other jurisdictions, and reasonable in the circumstances. Accordingly, on behalf of National, I speak in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc0f34bedb5744cb8f9917e4215d525f\u0022\u003EInjury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4a1b9c2564743999a94861c74c3f315\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2a0837c70e04528a49fa9d861826ad4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2a0837c70e04528a49fa9d861826ad4\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill be now read a second time. This bill builds on the framework provided for in the existing legislation by ensuring that the accident compensation scheme is funded in a fair and sustainable manner. The primary purpose of the bill is to merge the self-employed work account and the employers\u2019 account of the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) into a single work account, so that levies are more stable and better reflect industry risk. The account merger will allow levies paid by businesses to be based on the industry risk associated with their industry grouping, rather than on their business structure. The bill also renames the medical misadventure account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESome submissions to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee expressed concern that the merger would be contradictory to the basic insurance principle of grouping industries on the basis of discernible risk factors. The merged work account will continue to group enterprises on the basis of discernible risk factors, but it will not group enterprises according to their business structure. The use of self-employment as a rating factor results in the different treatment of small businesses that carry out similar\u2014or even the same\u2014activities, with similar risks. For example, a self-employed plumber currently pays a different levy rate from a sole-trading plumber operating within a company structure, even though he or she faces the same risk of workplace injury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe self-employed work account has had a high degree of volatility, due to its small earnings combined with a high turnover of levy payers from year to year. Small businesses, particularly, have cited levy instability as creating problems for their business-cost planning. The account merger will ensure that levies are more stable for both the self-employed and employers. It will also encourage industries to better coordinate health and safety across their workplaces, regardless of their business structure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis merger is not intended to redistribute the excess reserves currently in the employers\u2019 account to the self-employed. The transition period of 3 years provided for in the bill will allow the self-employed and employer levy rates in each industry or risk class, and the relative funding positions of the employers\u2019 and self-employed work accounts, to be equalised. The Government is proposing to ring-fence approximately $100 million of reserves in the employers\u2019 account, and to reimburse those funds to employers through rebates during the transition period. Also, during that period levy rates for classification units will be able to either increase or decrease only by up to 25 percent in relation to the previous year\u2019s levy for those units. After the transition period, employers and the self-employed in the same industry or risk class will pay the same levy rate. If, as some had requested, the entire excess reserves in the employers\u2019 account were to be refunded to levy payers in one year, then employers would experience significant increases in levy rates in years to come, which would defeat the objective of levy stability. ACC Partnership Programme employers would be more likely to exit the programme to take advantage of the rebate of the excess funding, to which they have contributed little, and that would also jeopardise the functioning of the programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe proposed commencement date for this merger to take effect is 1 April this year. Because both accounts are projected to be adequately funded for the 2007-08 year, that will make the transition to a single work account easier by reducing the impact of the merger on levy payers. The public was informed of the proposal to merge the accounts during the 2007-08 levy round. ACC provided information about the proposed policy package, and indicative levy rates, for the merged work account. In November of last year ACC also published updated indicative levy rates on its website, to assist those seeking to understand the levy impact of the merger proposal. Furthermore, the Department of Labour wrote to everyone who made submissions on this bill, and on the proposal during the levy consultation, with information as to how the proposed rebates would be funded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, the bill also renames the medical misadventure account as the treatment injury account. The Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Act (No. 2) 2005 replaced the \u201Cmedical error\u201D and \u201Cmedical mishap\u201D definitions with a definition of \u201Ctreatment injury\u201D. That bill also removed the necessity to find fault in order to obtain cover for treatment injuries, and the new provisions were implemented on 1 June 2005. Health professionals and health organisations are now familiar with the new systems, terms, and cover provisions. It is appropriate that the medical misadventure account now be renamed the treatment injury account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe bill returns to the House unchanged. However, the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014to which I give my thanks\u2014has recommended that a few minor corrective amendments should be made during the Committee stage. I will release a Supplementary Order Paper to make the minor corrective amendments recommended by the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI conclude by thanking the select committee for its consideration of this bill, and commending the progress of the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc12e100ea2a4405b0e8ca7da5a38138\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc12e100ea2a4405b0e8ca7da5a38138\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E National will continue to oppose the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill, because it legalises stealing from the employers\u2019 account. The only reason that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee did not bother to make any amendments was because National\u2014and other rational parties\u2014realised that there was no goodwill and no open-mindedness from the Labour Government side about even considering any changes. So we will simply oppose this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003ELet us look at this position. As at June 2006 the employers\u2019 account, which is to merge with the self-employed work account, was standing with a very healthy margin of 77 percent above estimated claims liability, while the self-employed work account\u2019s margin was 16 percent. This bill simply indicates that the combined, merged account would maintain a margin of 53 percent and equalise the amount. Let me illustrate this. It is, for example, as if I have $10 in my pocket and the Minister Ruth Dyson happens to have $40 in her pocket. I come along and say what a good idea it would be to pool together our two sums of money and spread it equally. I want to know how many people in this House would believe that the Minister would hand over $15 to me so that we could both end up with $25. None. That is what I expected. All rational, intelligent members of Parliament know that. No two people would be willing to simply pool together their money for no good reason. Yet the Labour Government is passing this legislation to force employers who have collected levies due to the number of their employees and their earnings to pay those levies over to the merged account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EIf the Minister is actually reasonable and says there is good reason to merge the two accounts because business structure should not dictate the risk, then why not, at the minimum, allow the employers\u2019 account to start off in the same position as the self-employed work account margin? The funding policy of the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) is that within 5 years it would refund the excess margin in those accounts to the people who pay the levy, or collect extra levies if there is an insufficient amount in the account\u2014and we are only 1 year off that place. ACC also indicated that by 2009-2010 the levy margin should be only 10 percent. Even if we are generous and let the employers\u2019 account margin drop to the same position as the self-employed account margin, it would mean that employers would be entitled to a refund of over $600 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe Minister stood there and pretended that the Labour Government is generous. She said we should let them have $100 million\u2014but it would be not even in one single year but over 2 years. Even the Inland Revenue Department\u2014the department that helps people\u2014recognises that the use of money attracts interest. If taxpayers had overpaid their tax, then even the Inland Revenue Department would pay them some interest for the use of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EACC explained why the employers\u2019 account is in such a healthy position. It is partly because of the additional premium collected. The other reason is that, ACC says, it makes good investments. Good on them! But members should think about which principles those premiums were paid under. ACC is a statutory monopoly insurer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003ESo, for this very, very basic reason, National will say that no legislation\u2014and I am challenging parties that support this bill\u2014should be passed in this Parliament that will legalise stealing from the employers\u2019 account, because that money is collected into a monopoly organisation and employers should be entitled to their refund. I urge the other parties to think about that. Let us put aside whether the employers\u2019 account and the self-employed work account should be merged. There is no excuse for legalising stealing. I will be introducing an amendment during the Committee stage to state that, as a minimum, parties that are responsible should say that if the employers\u2019 account ends up with overpayments, then they should be entitled to those refunds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on the issue of the process. The Minister said that ACC had written to all those people who made submissions, so there should be no excuse for people not understanding what is happening. Well, no submission was open to the public. Because of the truncated period of submission, only certain organisations were invited to make submissions. We also know that the original bill in 2001 promised full consultation in setting the levy. I invite the next speaker from the Government benches to explain the meaning of \u201Cfull consultation\u201D. Does it mean that ACC will publicise some figures on its website? What is the process of verification of the premium that was set by ACC? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003ESo National has a lot of problems with legalising the stealing of money from the employers\u2019 account, which should be properly refunded to those employers. We have a lot of problems with the process. All the submitters\u2014even the ones who were invited to make submissions\u2014have problems with the short time period. National also had problems with the very clear body language of the Labour Party members in the select committee, which indicated that they are not open-minded about any suggestions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe last point I want to touch on is that this is meant to be an insurance policy. The insurance premium is based on risk and reward for good behaviour. Yet the Minister mentioned that the objective of an insurance policy is levy stabilisation. If levy stabilisation is the key objective, then this should not be treated as an insurance-based policy for work injury. The Government should not even pretend it understands what is meant by insurance that takes risk into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe other thing that really worries us is the Government once again urging the so-called industry to reach over and help each other to achieve a good outcome. National would consider at this stage that there is no way we can reach over and help Labour in terms of managing its members. For example, Mr Field\u2019s present predicament, I hope, is not something that all members of Parliament can reach over and share the blame for. This is a socialising insurance premium policy that takes into account the risk of the type of industry, but does not take into account how individual self-employed people or business owners can behave in order to reduce their premiums.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u00229dc2e7b440e24af4a874849e03cea91d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dc2e7b440e24af4a874849e03cea91d\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is no wonder the insurance companies that tried to write the policy for the National Party and funded it for its last election are so disappointed. They thought it was bad having Dr Paul Hutchison fronting up for the National Party, but now they have to put up with Pansy Wong. She presented us with a most muddled set of nonsenses about the process in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. The process was actually very simple. It was straightforward and would have taken half the time had it not been for the idiotic questions that came from the two National Party members I have just named\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e5baa4848b9456da1ca182bce281c2a\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Aw!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9c455e5355444d81b2fc9240334ed8\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not from those who are sitting down the back on the other side. They are much more sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003ENational has to get over the ideological position that it wants to sell off accident compensation, as it tried to do when it was last in power. It opposes this Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment Bill because that is what it wants to do. Why did it have a separate account for self-employed people? It was because the insurance industry did not want them. The National Government was going to allow its mates in the private insurance market to cherry-pick the best part and leave the Government-owned organisation to cover the rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EMembers opposite are still thinking that way. They still want to privatise what I think is the best accident compensation system in the world\u2014a system that is held up throughout the world for all sorts of reasons, because it is fair and, even more important to business, cheap. It is cheaper than all those schemes National members point to in their examples from Australia and the United States. But that does not matter. Ideology is always going to win, over on that side of the House, over common sense and good policy\u2014which this bill is. For people who are listening to this debate, we are simply saying that for people whose risks are the same\u2014for example, unemployed plumbers doing exactly the same work as plumbers who are set up under a company structure\u2014over time as we equalise the premiums their levies will be the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWe received very interesting submissions from, I think, the seafood industry. It was represented by one of its officials, who did not\u2014after the National Party asked him numerous times\u2014want to say whether he was opposed to the bill. His life was worth more than that, because he was in the unenviable position of having half his members opposed to the bill and the other half in support of it. Why? The reason was that two guys could be standing next to one another on the back of a fishing boat, one self-employed and the other working under a company, but each would be paying a different rate. They could be doing exactly the same job and carrying exactly the same risks\u2014and the National Party says that that is the way it should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWhere is the logic in that? We look forward to some National Party speaker further on in this debate getting up and telling us what the logic is behind that. It is not as though at the moment we are saying to employers who have built up money in their fund that we are going to take it all off them and give it to the self-employed. That is not what the bill says. But Pansy Wong over there would say that we are stealing off people. Well, she should actually do her work\u2014that is what she is paid for in this place\u2014and read the bill. She sat in on the submission process and heard it. She questioned the officials and heard their responses. They were very sensible, very straightforward, and very easy to understand. Some valid questions were raised by submitters, such as what their levies would be. So we asked the officials\u2014as a good select committee does\u2014to send out that information, and they did so. I congratulate those officials on an excellent job well done, and on being able to put forward the information submitters asked for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EBut National Party members, still too lazy to do their work, have not even read that yet. This country deserves a better Opposition than the one we have here. Why do those members not just leave the place and give their jobs to the insurance companies? Those companies would write their policies, fund their campaigns, and expect to be delivered accident compensation on a plate, except for the bits that do not become very profitable, such as provisions for self-employed people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EOh no, no! Their mates in the insurance industry do not want that. And if Pansy Wong dares to say that this is about stealing, then I would like her to come up with some words to describe the behaviour of the National Party in the way it is beholden to private insurance companies, whose representatives sat up in the gallery week after week and watched this House debate the privatisation of accident compensation. I remember watching them. They were from that company called HIH Insurance\u2014that really great company the National Party gave accident compensation to. How many billions of dollars did that company lose in Australia when it went under? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276509a635bf94d4cac5afbc4c288c4ca\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: And who paid for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cbb25fe1eba4f3b83986a3211050c81\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE\u003C/span\u003E: Who paid for that? Was it the company\u2019s shareholders? No, not on your life! It was the ordinary people of Australia who paid for that massive failure\u2014and the National Party wants to revisit that sort of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThis is a fairly small, innocuous sort of bill. It is not hugely earth-shattering, but I congratulate the Minister on bringing it before the House. Yet National members are stuck in their old ideological mode. Its members have put on fresh new faces, as they do with their new leader, and pretend that they have changed, but they prove every time they do this sort of thing in the House that they are just the same right-wing old Tories they always were. No\u2014I apologise to those right-wing old Tories\u2014this lot is even worse. Even those right-wing old Tories told us what they thought. They got upfront and said what their real policies were. They did not go running around pretending to have friendly faces, when in fact everybody knew they were not friendly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EBut this lot still have their policy to privatise accident compensation, just as they want to sell off State houses and all the other things that prop up society in the way we should. We should make sure that people\u2019s risk\u2014whether those people standing on the back of fishing boats are self-employed or people who happen to be employed by the company\u2014is the same, that their levy is the same, and that they are in an equal situation. I do not think that anybody in his or her right mind could actually argue against that, except for those in the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3778d41dd3b4be3bdda8cfff675b6a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3778d41dd3b4be3bdda8cfff675b6a1\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the call on the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment Bill that is before us. In looking at what the Labour Party has been saying, I believe there is a fundamental difference in society, and especially in business, that its members just do not understand. There is a difference between being an employer and being self-employed. Employers generally have commitments to their employees that they have to maintain. They have to provide a safe environment in which people can work and they are generally audited to make sure they comply with those regulations, whereas self-employed people are generally people who are starting out and taking a few risks. They will go out there and do what they have to do in order to get their product, or their job, completed. They will take risks that employers just cannot afford to take because of their responsibility to other people. That is a concept we would not expect Labour Party members to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThey cannot understand it because they have never been in that position, whereas a lot of people on this side of the House have been there and done that. They know what it is like to go out and milk cows, or do whatever they have to do to get by, to get going, and to make a business successful. They know what it feels like to take the risk of doing the extra work they would not ask employees to do, because they know they have to save some money to make their business successful. That is the fundamental difference we have in relation to this legislation, and that is why we have a difference in the way those two business entities have been treated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis legislation seeks to change that. It seeks to put everyone together in a great universal pot, which I guess is the collective socialism one would expect from the far left. Those members think that if those two ingredients are put together things will be equal, and that the great ideals of a society based on equality will come about by treating everyone the same. Well, it does not work that way. People are different and businesses are different; they deserve to be treated differently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe see a number of things in this legislation. The first is the difference between employers and the self-employed. The second has to do with the reserves employers have built up, which equate to about $511 million. That is money employers have paid into an account they did not need to pay into, because the account is being merged with another account that has only $115 million in it. Effectively, over a number of years employers have been paying excessive levies, and the Government has decided that it will put that money into one big pot, worth about $700 million. I do not know why the Government has such resources there\u2014perhaps it wants to raid them in a year\u2019s time for its election spending. The real reason it should have the account there is so that it can give the money back to the employers who have actually paid into it. The Government should not take money off the employers and put it into some great merged account that it thinks will achieve its goals of equality. The employers have paid in that money and they deserve to get it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Government is talking about some kind of scheme\u2014a 2-year window of opportunity\u2014where it will rebate some of its new levies for employers. That will account for about $105 million of that $500 million. That may seem fine, but the reality is that Labour is doing that just for show. It is just keeping the employer levy down for 2 years. Why would it want to do that? The reason is that when the two accounts are merged, the employer levy will have to go up. So if Labour uses the $105 million to keep the levy down, employers will not notice the change for the next 2 years. But once that rebate has come off, employers will see their levies go through the roof. That is the real reason Labour is doing what it is doing with that levy rebate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ELabour should be giving the whole sum of money back to the employers, and it should be treating employers and the self-employed differently. Members may ask what that actually means. Well, the ministry has told us that there could be an increase of up to 25 percent in relation to the levy of the previous year. Can members imagine running a business and increasing the price of their product by 25 percent in one year? At the end of that year there would not be a business. But it is all right for the Government to do that to employers. It is expected that 8 percent of employers will get a levy rate increase of between 5 and 45 percent\u2014that is, up to 45 percent more in levies than exists under the current regime. Members should imagine businesses getting a 45 percent increase in their levies. That is not exactly the kind of thing people should be doing to New Zealand business if they want to transform the economy, grow the economy, or\u2014more likely now\u2014just sustain it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of these numbers. For employer classification levies in 2007-08, we are at present looking at levies of about $2.43 for lobster fishing\u2014basically, for ocean and coastal fishing. Under this new scheme, without the employer rebate, it will mean that in 2 years\u2019 time the figure will be $4.31. So the levies will go from $2.43 to $4.31 for the fishing industries. Those industries are really struggling under a high export dollar, but these guys in the Government are going to give them another kick in the guts through their employer levies under the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI turn to meat inspection services. The figure will go from $1.26 to $2.02. I say to Mark Gosche that we have read the legislation and we have read the numbers, and the Government cannot do that to another industry that is really struggling in New Zealand. I take another example, the timber industry, where the levies will rise from $1.13 to $2.74\u2014a huge increase for an industry like that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EMembers should look at other industries that they would not expect to have such big increases, such as sport. That will be good for Trevor Mallard, will it not? Let us look at what the Government is going to do there. The levies in equestrian sports will go from $4.83 to $5.65. Labour should be encouraging people into sports in New Zealand. Rugby league levies will go from 75c to $1.01. Effectively, levies in the sports area will increase by about 17 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis Government prides itself on culture, does it not\u2014a Government that has an interest in the cultural affairs of this country? What has it done there? The levies will increase from 24c to 36c\u2014a big increase on a percentage basis. This Government does not really care about our youth\u2014it does not care about getting them into sport\u2014it does not care about cultural interests; it is just prepared to do whatever it has to do in order to get more money. This is another tax-and-grab from this Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere will also be an effect on self-employed people; some of them will have from 20 to 50 percent increases. The police, and those in stevedoring, plastic products, and chemical products will have increases at large rates, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis bill was intended as a means of putting together two pieces of the ACC components that should always have been separate. They represent different ways of doing business. They represent the different structures of New Zealand business. Yet the Government has put them together in a process it believes will create equality and fairness. Well, it will not create equality and fairness; all it will do is make employers pay through the nose for the self-employed. It is a farcical attempt by this Government to push through something without any consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIn the select committee we were very surprised to see such legislation being proposed without there being time for genuine consultation. The reason there are not many submissions on this legislation is that people simply were not given time to make submissions. It was within about a 6-month period that people became aware of the changes, and those changes were forced upon them this year. That is simply not good governance for business. It shows that this Government has no idea of how businesses plan ahead. It shows how this Government is prepared to make its changes just willy-nilly, as it desires, without having any knowledge of the consequences or the approaches to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENew Zealand business deserves more. New Zealand culture deserves more. New Zealand sports deserve more. But what will we get? We will get a regime that lumps it all together for the sake of this Government. There is a sum of $500 million that has been stolen off employers. It is time for the Government to give the money back to them and show that it really cares about transforming this economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5dcb4c277bb4d2e983a4bdc1c4ce32f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5dcb4c277bb4d2e983a4bdc1c4ce32f\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party supports this short and, for bills concerning accident compensation, unusually simple bill. The primary purpose of the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill is to merge the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2019s (ACC) self-employed work account with its employers\u2019 account. This is just sensible. There is no good reason why a self-employed person carrying out a business should be levied differently than a person who registers a company that employs him or her as its sole employee. Yet that was the consequence of the anachronistic legacy of the two separate accounts that flowed from the National Government\u2019s failed privatisation of accident compensation in the 1990s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThis bill presents an opportunity for the National Party to distance itself from the hard-right policies and the hollow men of the Brash years. It is a chance for National to show that it is acting in the interests of New Zealanders who have the misfortune to be injured, rather than in the interests of its mates in the insurance industry. Yet what we see in this House is the National Party opposing this bill, perhaps on the basis that the merger of the accounts would make it more difficult for some future National-led Government to privatise accident compensation again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIt is time for the members on the National benches to come clean about their accident compensation privatisation policy. Who wrote it, or at whose behest was it written? Was it written by Stephen Cosgrove of QBE Insurance, who reportedly met with Dr Brash in August 2004 to discuss the re-privatisation of accident compensation insurance? Or was it written by Ross Chapman of the same company, who reportedly met with Dr Brash in July 2005? Or perhaps it was written by the chief executive officer of the Insurance Council itself, Chris Ryan, who reportedly had numerous meetings and communications with Dr Brash and Dr Hutchison on the privatisation of accident compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIt is also time for the members on the National benches to come clean about some other matters in relation to its accident compensation privatisation policy. Did National receive a $1 million-plus anonymous donation through one of its dodgy trusts from the Insurance Council, in recognition of its privatisation policy, as Nicky Hager claims it did in The Hollow Men, as advised by a confidential National Party source? It is time for the National Party, which had the temerity to make allegations of corruption in this House for most of the past year, to come clean about its own links with the insurance industry and the funding it may have received from it. It is also time for the electoral law to be changed, to ensure transparency in the funding of political parties. Whatever the links were between the National Party\u2019s accident compensation privatisation policy and the allegations of it receiving substantial donations from the insurance industry, the public, in the interests of democracy, has the right to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EWhat the National Party forgets, or chooses to forget, is that its short-lived privatisation of workplace accident insurance was a disaster for people injured at work. A few weeks ago I received an email from one such person, who is still suffering under the sorry legacy of that scheme through the transitional provisions of the 2001 Act. His email has the subject line: \u201CWorkAon unfair and ruthless.\u201D It is an email that I imagine most other members of this House also received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHe says: \u201CThe thought of having to pay out money to injured people is an insult to their agenda, so it goes without saying that they will put whatever obstacles in the way of injured people to avoid paying any money. They are not operating under the ACC laws. WorkAon\u2019s efforts in the field of accident compensation are probably the worst that you could possibly come across. I have been told by some doctors that it was commonplace to have to wait for more than a year for their bills to be paid. What way is this to run a business? It would appear as though their first duty was to the organisations that are paying levies to them and also their shareholders not for the injured people that are unfortunate enough to have to rely on them for compensation as a result of the Government allowing big business to arrange their own cover.\u201D The letter writer went on to detail a sorry sequence of events, including WorkAon refusing to accept medical reports from specialists who had examined him and referring him to its own tame specialists whose opinions it then preferred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThis highlights the problem with privatised workplace accident insurance that the National Party just does not seem to get\u2014or chooses to ignore\u2014in the interests of its friends in the insurance industry. The National Party says it wants to introduce competition into the scheme, but the competition the National Party proposes advantages only the employer. There is no competition for the injured worker. Accident compensation insurance is not a normal insurance arrangement. Cover, compensation, and other entitlements are prescribed by statute, not by contract. The easiest way for private insurance companies to be profitable and gain market share in the area of accident compensation is to deny the cover and entitlements that an injured person is entitled by statute to receive. They can do so in the knowledge that the accident compensation law is extremely complex, and the injured person will often not know how to challenge an unfavourable decision. They can do so in the knowledge that many claimants will not be able to afford the legal representation they need in order to challenge anything that goes against them. They know that the health professionals doing the assessments will often be contracted to the employer, and the perception, if not the reality, is that their assessments are far from independent and unbiased. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThey know, too, that the purportedly independent review process involves a reviewer appointed by the employer, which further undermines any perception of independence. The consequence, of course, was that the private insurance companies in 1999-2000 deliberately, or negligently, refused to extend cover and entitlements that they were bound by statute to extend. They knew that most injured people would not challenge those erroneous decisions, and that this was a far easier way to reduce their levies and increase their market share than their spending money on advising their employer clients on how to reduce risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe other thing the National Party refuses to understand about accident compensation is that it is a no-fault scheme. This distinguishes it from most insurance arrangements, where the insurance company can recover funds expended on a claim from the party responsible for the action that gave rise to the claim. That is not a possibility when it is deemed no one is at fault, and this, too, leads to competing private insurance companies attempting to minimise claims expenditure by wrongly declining claims. These are the reasons that accident compensation should be retained in the public sector. The National Party\u2019s blinkered view that everything that is private is good and everything that is public is bad is one reason that it is not yet fit to be Government again. The Green Party believes that there are some things the public sector does do best, and accident compensation is one of them. Despite the shortcomings of the public accident compensation scheme\u2014and I am the first to accept there are still some significant shortcomings, particularly regarding the definition of personal injury\u2014that scheme operates infinitely better for injured workers than did National\u2019s privatisation experiment, which they propose to revert to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI am pleased that New Zealand First, which supported the disastrous accident compensation privatisation experiment back in the late 1990s, is now supporting the aspects of this bill that merge the employers\u2019 account and the self-employed work account. At least it appears that that party has moved on and can now see sense. The National Party, however, still seems to be stuck in a time warp, promoting yesterday\u2019s failed policies. Its record on accident compensation is one of failure and duplicity. This is the party that went into the 1996 election campaign promising that it would not privatise accident compensation, yet, by the end of the following parliamentary term, it had partially privatised accident compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EIf National is serious about again sitting on the Government benches, it should front up to this House and to the public of New Zealand and tell us the full story, for better or for worse, of its links with the insurance industry. It should acknowledge that the privatisation of accident compensation in the late 1990s was a disaster for injured people, and repudiate that policy. It should also withdraw its misguided opposition to this simple little bill, which does no more than rectify an anomaly that causes wildly fluctuating ACC levies for self-employed people, and redress the situation that different people carrying out essentially the same business with the same injury risk can still pay vastly different ACC levies\u2014just because of the way they have chosen to structure their businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u002226e6f5aeddb04c0984dd84e34e1f141a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226e6f5aeddb04c0984dd84e34e1f141a\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I want initially to respond to something the honourable member Sue Bradford referred to, in relation to New Zealand First. She said she was pleased that we were finally supporting the accident compensation system and had given up our thoughts of privatising the system. Let me put the facts straight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c5ab1f3d6bd4d17949ba4fc5a5fb470\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, didn\u2019t you support privatisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269d0a08d0fd8497ea7742a54e2f6d1cf\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. If the member listens to me, she will hear our viewpoint. When the system was privatised\u2014shortly after National had dispensed with us as a coalition partner\u2014we did not agree with that privatisation. We thought it was too quickly done. But, in fairness to National, after the privatisation had had its 6-month trial we thought it was working better than National had envisaged. It was certainly working better than the way in which we had thought it would be working, at the time of the change of Government. I see the member there is nodding her head. So we did not see any reason to change it after the 6-month trial; we felt it should be given a 2-year trial, at least. Then it could have been changed back, nationalised, if need be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EHowever, the Government nationalised the system and brought back the Accident Compensation Corporation being the sole provider. In all honesty, the Government did not do the job properly in the first instance. The Minister for ACC, Ruth Dyson, will acknowledge that. New Zealand First had about five areas of concern at that time\u2014significant areas of concern. One of them was medical misadventure. We thought that that should have been covered by accident compensation from the word go. I made personal representation to the Minister\u2014and her predecessor\u2014on that very issue, and was told that it was too costly. Since then the Government has addressed that issue and medical misadventure has been embraced by accident compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ENational members have come to the party and have raised all sorts of facts and figures. I listened to David Bennett with some interest. He said\u2014and I hope I am correct in this\u2014that the employers\u2019 account is worth $511 million and the self-employed work account is worth $115 million. He said that both of them together are worth in the vicinity of $700 million. Actually, they add up to $626 million, which is $74 million short of the member\u2019s figure. There is a gap in his mathematics, or maybe he is trying to hoodwink people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EIt is well known in the public arena and in this House that the National Party wants to sell a few of our assets and privatise them. I can list quite a few, such as Television New Zealand (TVNZ)\u2014[Interruption] That was Rodney Hide. He would sell everything, with due respect. The National Party would sell TVNZ, Air New Zealand, Meridian Energy, Genesis Energy, and Mighty River Power, and we know that it would privatise, at least, the Accident Compensation Corporation employers\u2019 account and the motorists\u2019 account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EWe think there are very good reasons for amalgamating the employers\u2019 account and the self-employed work account. I listened to Pansy Wong; indeed, I have spoken to her, and she has outlined her concerns personally to me. She may or may not have a point. I am not sure I have got fully to grips with where she is coming from, but I am certain that when we come to the Committee stage she will give us a better understanding of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ELet me read what the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee said: \u201CThe bill, however, allows levy rates to differ between the self-employed and employers until the end of the 2009/10 tax year.\u201D David Bennett listed a whole range of figures to show how much levy rates are going up and what have you. It was convenient for him to say they are going up by so much and, by inference, say it is because the two accounts are being combined. That is not true. The levy rates are going up for some reason, but it is not because the accounts are being combined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EThe report goes on to say: \u201CThe Government has proposed a mechanism utilising different levy rates to equalise the funding reserves. This mechanism would provide rebates totalling approximately $100.5 million to employers and a loading to be applied to self-employed classification units to bring the total levy income up to the level ACC would otherwise receive under separate accounts.\u201D The worst thing I can say about that statement is that it is a blasted long sentence. It should have been split into two, or more. But, basically, it explains that there is a degree of flexibility in the mechanism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003ETo some extent, all politicians form their responses by gauging the submissions received by the select committee. But, equally so, they gauge public concern by the number of people who contact MPs about an issue. On this issue, I am not aware that any New Zealand First MP has been contacted privately at all, by anyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022081cae8869c5423191acf041362d916d\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Why bother?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a819ea22af6e4dc2bfe879b85691a253\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Hide that we are involved with this Government on confidence and supply. We have a great deal more influence with the Government than he has. Mr Hide has achieved exactly nothing since he has been in Parliament. In the last year New Zealand First has achieved a great deal in cooperation with the Government. That is true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003EMuch has been said about this bill, but the little bit that concerns us the most\u2014and, again, the public have not raised it with us\u2014is the change of the name of the medical misadventure account to treatment injury account. That sticks in our throat a little. We think that the original name, \u201Cmedical misadventure account\u201D, better reflects what it is all about, and that the name \u201Ctreatment injury account\u201D makes it all sound too nice and cosy. We are talking about an account that covers people for accident compensation when a doctor makes a stuff-up or something else goes wrong. To call it a treatment injury account does not sit comfortably with us, and we would have preferred to keep it as the medical misadventure account. But, having said that, we are not prepared to pull the bill down on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261768c4e44dc4faf982f52510da6cfb9\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237f2e23dae3d4229841d80e63341e3e4\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are just saying that this does not sit comfortably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e55898daf0491a8669a22fd332d7bf\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member bring an amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dedfe02731240fc9815e3964fd5f916\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know. We may well do that. We will be voting for this bill, whether or not the name of the account changes. I say to the House that the name change does not sit comfortably with New Zealand First, but in all other respects we are comfortable with the bill and we will be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd6bc8d15d5c4ca188ad321c6eaf8d77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd6bc8d15d5c4ca188ad321c6eaf8d77\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. There are three critical components to this bill that the M\u0101ori Party seeks to bring to the House. The challenge when considering any merger such as is proposed in this bill, in merging the employers\u2019 account and the self-employed work account into a single account, is that there is a risk that specific issues may be submerged in the joining. The specific issues that we seek to highlight are: the context of M\u0101ori as employers and as self-employed, the relationship of tangata whenua to the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC), and the adequacy of this bill to ensure a responsiveness to M\u0101ori alongside the pursuit of wh\u0101nau well-being. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe proposed changes in merging the employers\u2019 account and the self-employed work account into a single work account will impact on M\u0101ori employers in terms of the way they will support an ongoing commitment to a fair and sustainable accident compensation scheme. The household labour force survey in June 2006 identified that there are 4,500 M\u0101ori employers, and that number is growing fast. The New Zealand Institute of Economic Research has described the rapidly increasing participation of M\u0101ori as employers, to the extent that economists now talk meaningfully about a M\u0101ori economy. Indeed, in 2003 the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research quantified an annual tax contribution of $2.4 billion from the M\u0101ori economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EA recent 2006 study of M\u0101ori employers by Eljon Fitzgerald and Eva McLaren gives us much room for optimism about the way in which M\u0101ori employers will respond to this change. Employers were asked about their strategies to retain and care for staff. Good relationships, working conditions, and management strategies were seen as important means of retaining employees. Innovation was favoured\u2014for example, one employer takes his shearing gang to Australia every year during the off season. An interesting observation from the study was that 13 percent of the employers felt that an easing of compliance issues would be helpful in facilitating employment growth. As one employer noted, accident compensation charges have increased 800 percent per staff member, which takes a big toll on business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe burden of compliance issues also impacts on the self-employed. Over the past two decades, Aotearoa has witnessed an unprecedented rise in the numbers of self-employed M\u0101ori\u2014in fact, there has been a massive 156 percent increase between 1981 and 2001. Perhaps one reason to account for the growth in the number of the M\u0101ori self-employed comes from a simple financial risk assessment. The median earnings for self-employed\u2014$30,350\u2014are now higher than salary and wage earners, which is $29,280. M\u0101ori males make up the majority of M\u0101ori self-employed. In 2005 there were 9,750 men self-employed compared with 5,800 women. The number of M\u0101ori women who have grown their businesses to a point of being able to employ others has barely moved in 15 years and makes up only 1.3 percent of M\u0101ori women in employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EI was really interested when I was listening to Mr Bennett talking about the notion of self-employed people taking short cuts and taking more risks. I thought about my own husband, who was self-employed as a bricklayer and plasterer, and I do not ever recall him taking short cuts and taking risks, because his business was dependent on the quality of job. So I could not quite get the gist of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EGiven the relative youthfulness of the sector, and the recent growth, there is concern that the impacts of this proposed legislation will mean that levies will almost certainly increase. Instead of levies being calculated on the earnings indicated in the tax return, they will be allocated according to risk. This will mean, in effect, that levies will be calculated according to the risk of injury in that sector, and by wages. For those high-risk industries that so many of our people are employed in, such as fishing, farming, and forestry, levy increases are likely to be very significant. For new businesses and new self-employed, the costs will be even more dramatic as ACC will require the next year\u2019s levy in advance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EIn many ways then, for both employers and self-employed, it is a case of balancing the see-saw. On the one hand, the advantages of a single work account cannot make both policy and practical sense. It will provide greater levy stability and ensure a clearer focus across particular industries and enterprises for both injury prevention and health protection. On the other hand, we recognise that the consequences of merging accounts might mean that small businesses and the self-employed are faced with choices that may, in effect, set them up for future accidents. We would be concerned if any resulting levy increases might cause employers to compromise health and safety standards by cutting back on the appropriate equipment or putting strain on the work environment by employing fewer staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe second key issue is related to whether M\u0101ori will perceive any benefits from the single work account, given the limitations that have been previously reported on M\u0101ori uptake of accident compensation. Research points out that although M\u0101ori workers have a higher injury rate, they are less likely to make an accident compensation claim and more likely to be declined cover. ACC General Manager for M\u0101ori development, Chad Paraone, outlined that in 2005, the rate claim per 1,000 for European was 361 compared with 289 M\u0101ori. The corporation identified several reasons for the lower claim rate: a lack of awareness from M\u0101ori about accident compensation entitlements, communication issues and difficulty in navigating the system, and concern about the loss of a job and a working income. Many believe that the 80 percent of previous income that accident compensation covers will be inadequate to cover household expenses. In the light of these findings, the corporation has allocated $2 million for a M\u0101ori access strategy to look at marketing, capacity building, provider development, community partnerships and advocacy, and knowledge management. We would actually be quite happy if M\u0101ori were treated equally and with respect by ACC. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EFinally, having looked at the implications of this bill for employers, the self-employed, and recipients of accident compensation, we turn, as we always must, to the well-being of wh\u0101nau. By merging the accounts, we support the drive to simplify compliance costs and to provide a clearer focus on injury prevention and health protection purposes. But we cannot be complacent that a shift in compliance structures will necessarily fix up the other longstanding issues occurring in the field of injury prevention, rehabilitation, and compensation. The M\u0101ori Party has been aware of the pivotal research undertaken by Dr Peter Jansen on M\u0101ori consumer use and experience of health and disability and ACC services that reveals that M\u0101ori are currently not receiving entitlements to care, rehabilitation, and compensation at a level comparable with the proportion of M\u0101ori in the population. That is despite the fact that M\u0101ori have a greater need for, but less access to, treatment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe have been reassured by the Minister, who has also been concerned about the statistics relating to workplaces for M\u0101ori in New Zealand. She has described M\u0101ori as overrepresented in high-risk industries and under-represented in claims and entitlements from ACC. We also point out that sports activities are the main cause of injury for M\u0101ori, resulting in 30 percent of injuries. Once injured, M\u0101ori are less likely than non-M\u0101ori to receive treatment from a physiotherapist for their injury. It may be timely to consider how sporting bodies take into account the needs of treatment and rehabilitation for sporting injuries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe Minister has given her commitment, in this House, that M\u0101ori, like all other New Zealanders, will receive the compensation and rehabilitation to which they are entitled. We welcome this commitment and hope that it is translated into action for this bill\u2014and any other related to injury prevention. The issues raised by our constituents about accident compensation, or by employers and the self-employed about the single work account levies, point to an urgent need for education about safe working-practices and measures to adopt safety standards. Also evident is the need for the corporation\u2014which it has recognised\u2014to change the way in which it operates, so that it can be responsive to M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will support this bill going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe7eaaae1168442dbf038ed4bab58fbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe7eaaae1168442dbf038ed4bab58fbc\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I stand on behalf of United Future to speak in support of the second reading of the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill. Business structure is not, in itself, a risk; the risk is in the activity of the business. I challenge one of the earlier National Party speakers David Bennett, who tended to suggest that if one were self-employed, one was some sort of cowboy. Speaking as somebody who has been self-employed, my experience, as part of that community, was that we were quite risk-averse due to the fact that we did not have a backstop, should anything go wrong. I have also been an employer in a reasonably high-risk category and I understand the costs, constraints, and compliances in that sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ESo United Future welcomes this chance to maintain an activity-based classification, and we are also pleased to see that what remain are the programmes that allow for levy adjustments based on safety practices of the company involved. We also acknowledge in the second reading that although it may seem a small technical point that we have renamed the medical misadventure account the treatment injury account, it is important to reflect on the fact that although this is technical, and merely aligns the name of the account with the new terminology enshrined in the Act, the change in terminology happened to reflect a new approach by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) to respond in a speedy way to injuries that were sustained due to a medical procedure, and to ensure that the victim gets what he or she needs: a rapidly funded response, which is not hampered by a lengthy process, setting in motion the need to apportion blame for why that injury happened. That matter can happen as a separate process, and ACC is now not able to withhold important funding and treatment for somebody in need, who has sustained a treatment injury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EUnited Future would like to congratulate the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. We do not have representation on the committee but we did read with interest the report back, and we are happy to support the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u00224adf40df67334a75ae49e9f557edbe2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224adf40df67334a75ae49e9f557edbe2b\u0022\u003ERODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT party opposes this Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill, and let us make it quite clear why. It seems that in this House there is a failure of memory in preference for an ideological position. The failure of memory relates to the success of giving people choice in accident insurance, rather than having a State-run monopoly, and I would remind members of the House that that experience was overwhelmingly positive. It was positive from the point of view of the costs to employees but also\u2014most important\u2014to the incentive to get accidents down and to the rehabilitation of people who were injured. I heard the Labour Government, and I heard the Green Party\u2014and I do not know where New Zealand First members were\u2014talk as though this was some experiment that was a miserable failure. It was not an experiment at all; it was called choice. It was called private enterprise, entrepreneurship, and competition, and\u2014like when that is tried everywhere else in the world\u2014it worked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003ESo who is being sold out by the ideological commitment of this Government, and that of other parties, to oppose privatisation at every opportunity? Well, actually, it is every New Zealand business; it is every New Zealand worker; it is every person who has been injured and denied an opportunity to become well. It is M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101; it is Chinese and Indian. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EThe idea that we stand up in this House and say that it was terrible and that it was all an ideological commitment is bollocks, because, when given a choice, New Zealanders are not stupid. Certainly, New Zealanders are not as stupid as this Government and this Parliament, because when New Zealanders look at this legislation, they ask what it will cost. They ask what they will get and what is best for them and for their businesses. They ask what is best for them as workers. That is not what we see this Parliament deciding. That is not what we see the Accident Compensation Corporation deciding, because what it cares about is what is best for the corporation over the worker and over the business\u2014and for this Government and its short-term political interests over the interests of the entire country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWe oppose this bill because the ACT party stands full square for choice, privatisation, and free enterprise. I look forward to the day when there is a majority for some common sense, and for some decent policy that will deliver for the working people of New Zealand\u2014not this policy from those namby-pamby socialists over there, who would not know a working person or a business if they fell over one. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022f52b0b8001fe497b833a5f70b4e3ace0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f52b0b8001fe497b833a5f70b4e3ace0\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E That was a great speech from the leader of the ACT party, and I think he pretty much expressed the National Party\u2019s view as well in that couple of minutes. I must say that it is quite unusual for Mr Hide not to take his full 10 minutes, but I think he put the argument very succinctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe National Party strongly opposes this Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224f4f53fbfe24679b36f45c139327341\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Privatisation\u2019s better, eh?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f39b0167fbe94776ac9dc2c850c2d3b5\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: What do you think, Rodney! My colleagues Pansy Wong and David Bennett have already spoken on this bill, and they have laid out the issues exceptionally well. In a nutshell, we are opposing this bill because the issue is really about the efficiency of a system enabling people to have choice in accident insurance. This bill will place a quite considerable burden on New Zealand businesses and employers, and, to be honest, it has been brought into the House in a most devious and deceptive manner. As my colleague Paul Hutchison noted in his speech in the first reading of this bill several months ago, this bill is another example of the \u201Cclassic, arrogant behaviour\u201D that has now become synonymous with the current Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c0e90496eb46f9995f002b727c61b8\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I feel so bad about this bill, I\u2019m going to vote against it twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d0dd4caa9249bfadc479c6e5241780\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why not? The first thing I will talk about is the deviousness of the bill as a whole. It purports, as members are aware, to bypass the normal consultation period. The reason given is that the transition period to the merging of the self-employed work account and the employers\u2019 account needs to be as short as possible in order to ensure that the transition is fair and smooth. Apparently, to achieve this, the normal consultation period must be bypassed. So, essentially, the Government is planning to put through legislation without even hearing submissions from the industry\u2014an interesting and not at all democratic concept. I am very interested to know how not consulting the appropriate stakeholders fully and not allowing them the time to give full submissions will result in a fair and smooth transition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200702205507f505e84e42ca8b5b592b7689af72000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"