"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022501d1010dfb44544961059afcef46404\u0022\u003ETuesday, 1 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ecc9bf24efd447b927e8ad159e65e3b\u0022\u003ETuesday, 1 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022469ced24f6d8476f830ed90e6b731a5d\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002268b5fed9d86f4cde8b38a2a9a5add194\u0022\u003EHon Henry Robert Lapwood OBE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u0022140037723fd24ab8aeaef6c5a6cceea2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022140037723fd24ab8aeaef6c5a6cceea2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to inform the House of the death on 26 April 2007 of the Hon Henry Robert (Harry) Lapwood OBE, who represented the electorate of Rotorua from 1960 to 1978. He was a senior whip from 1970 to 1974, and Minister of Tourism and Minister in charge of Publicity and of the Government Printing Office from 1975 to 1978. I desire, on behalf of this House, to express our sense of the loss we have sustained and our sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I now ask members to stand with me and observe a period of silence as a mark of respect for his memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHonourable members stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022236a9bf8e7a347fabcb08220da91004d\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226998171405714dfab058b7590476b8d9\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022422a56d011d24148a9fde097c7afbab6\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014OECD Ratings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e409bc0b6584cfda093164616a6b571\u0022\u003E1. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement last year, with respect to the economy, that \u201COur job in government has been to stop New Zealand running the race to the bottom, and to aim for the top.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022 data-id=\u0022476d634ef1744bf394a67ff1fecf26bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022476d634ef1744bf394a67ff1fecf26bc\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edcff141ad094222a03feb9b0419168f\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, after 8 years of a Labour Government, has New Zealand fallen from being the 20th ranked economy out of 30 in the OECD to the 22nd\u2014that is right, New Zealand has fallen two places in 8 years under Labour\u2014and if that is a race for the top, is she a little bit confused about what is the top and what is the bottom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220cd35fa8139485691ade9f8a1d0ae87\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The OECD report points out that New Zealand for quite some years has been around 16 percent below the GDP per capita median for the OECD. I understand there is a little volatility around those ratings, not least because a country like Greece recalculated the size of its informal economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b34ad8fe9b64e0698b5fa24bdac0399\u0022\u003ETim Barnett\u003C/span\u003E: How do New Zealand\u2019s employment growth rates compare with those elsewhere in the OECD, and how has that comparison changed over time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ebf71685c1b4246bc9df6ced42432d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that this is an answer the Opposition may not like, but the OECD does set out the figures for employment growth for New Zealand in relation to the OECD average. From 1991 to 1995 the figures show that our employment growth rate was below that of the OECD average, as it was from 1996 to 2000. Between 2001 and 2005 we grew over four times as fast as the OECD average in respect of employment growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222550c5c3e1bc461ab656be1dd34fe5f1\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Prime Minister have to say to the 350 workers at Fisher and Paykel, who lost their jobs because of business conditions in New Zealand, other than what she said on breakfast TV on Monday, which amounted to: \u201CTough luck. That\u2019s the way of the world. It\u2019s a shame you made only washing machines rather than being a high-value, niche, innovative manufacturer.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022900fd69c503d4e65b3012f08e2e0f413\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, one of the key factors cited by Fisher and Paykel was that when its competitor\u2014based in Australia\u2014ceased manufacture, the company lost its preference in that market, and that was a critical point. Of course, 2 weeks ago the New Zealand dollar reached a quarter-century high against the US dollar, but so did the Australian dollar and so did the pound sterling. That causes manufacturers across those countries\u2014and, I suggest, across a great deal of the Western World\u2014to be looking at lower-cost processing. Our future in manufacturing is at the higher end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227173100b460a47f9881cfca79759071d\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: How do New Zealand\u2019s growth rates compare with those in the OECD, and how has that comparison changed over time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962994e26e23488cbecd4438f2589f0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the OECD produces figures that the Opposition may not wish to hear, but those figures show that between 1991 and 1995 GDP growth per capita in the OECD outstripped New Zealand\u2019s, as it did between 1996 and 2000. From 2001 to 2005 our growth rate was significantly above the OECD average. That means that if we could, on average, keep growing above the OECD growth rate, we would, of course, improve relative rankings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb0a50af50254b2786082c7f5f79aeb0\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with Andrew Little, the Secretary of the New Zealand Amalgamated Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, that manipulation of the cash rate is a \u201Cblunt tool\u201D that is making it only harder for average New Zealanders to afford to house themselves and their families, while at the same time increasing our current account deficit and making it harder for manufacturers to export\u2014and that means thousands of decent jobs are at risk; if she does agree with Mr Little, what other tools does she think may be useful to support New Zealand manufacturing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a118cc9c39a4a10a418afa1ee2b37a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It is a \u201Cblunt tool\u201D, but finding other tools that are useful has not proved easy. That is why the Government suggests that a select committee inquiry focused on monetary policy might have a role to play. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad1e6f28eb9c479ba6e50dd5c8db3f00\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister anticipate more job losses in the months ahead, along the lines announced last week by Fisher and Paykel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f436f8b1c36417da529b0409ec053a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Businesses will make their own choices, but I would put this issue in the context of the fact that over the past 6 years jobs in the manufacturing sector have risen by 14 percent. This is a dynamic sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213839471c196429aa2b197dc576c2998\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Prime Minister agree with the Real Estate Institute when it said last year that foreign investment in New Zealand real estate was on the rise; and would it not assist in the battle against inflation and take the heat out of the housing market if the Government acted to limit the sale of land and houses to New Zealand citizens and residents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a024e4f1751a454182d4c21db4b4dc13\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has, with reasonably broad support in the House and the community, put some more restraints on the kind of land that can be sold without permission through the Overseas Investment Commission and the relevant Ministers. But to put a stop on foreign investment in real estate would be going rather a lot of steps too far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d8b2f1c16140799a8e368a04d4c048\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If the figures the Prime Minister quotes are all so good and New Zealand, relatively speaking, is doing so well, can she just explain one more time why New Zealand has fallen in its average per capita income from 20th place to 22nd place in the OECD, and does she still hold her goal of getting New Zealand into the top half of the OECD; if so, how long will it take to do so, given that it has taken her 8 years to take us down two places, let alone move up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac23511bc856427da19663f64bb91e2e\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I stress again that the OECD report points out that we have been about 16 percent below the median GDP per capita rates for quite a number of years. We are not falling significantly further at all, but in order to climb we need to keep growing above OECD averages consistently over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228511260def75401393e1bec3f959e565\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree that Auckland\u2019s public transport system won the race to the bottom when compared with other First World cities; and how will she respond to the nearly 4,000 Aucklanders who signed a petition presented to me in Parliament this morning calling for an urgent Government agreement on a passenger rail electrification timetable, and for funding to enable trains to be ordered? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3844b0c3cb34d79b3aeb12c3e282545\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member is right. That is an extraordinarily long bow given the primary question that was asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adc70c52be954727ba464dd5e8607cd9\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The question is on the economy and the race to the bottom. The passenger rail system in Auckland is very important to the Auckland economy\u2014even the Prime Minister would recognise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225349363ee5c94d6c873fc555ff684a07\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just ask the member to try to narrow the questions in future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232533130624440a89cea3c8be84ee76c\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I do not disagree in substance with the general comment made by the member about the state of Auckland\u2019s public transport system in the past. The Government has hugely increased spending on it. In respect of rail and electrification I believe that it is a matter of not if but when, and we envisage continuing to invest to improve Auckland\u2019s public transport system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afe9e9c9aee74ab2b0021435e27ad8aa\u0022\u003EJohn Key\u003C/span\u003E: If one of the solutions in making the economy more competitive is to cut the company tax rate, which we believe will be provided for in the Budget in a few weeks\u2019 time, why has it taken the Government 8 years to suggest cutting the company tax rate when there has been more than ample opportunity through large surpluses to do so in the past?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ff55f5e-9237-45e2-8e15-24228a10320e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dcd7c20ceef4c1e98a22ec45a6daf3f\u0022\u003ERt Hon HELEN CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It will not have gone without notice that the Government has run quite a conservative fiscal policy, and that it likes to see where money is coming from before putting it into tax cuts and other spending. The Government will be delivering on a significant business tax package this year. I note that this was not something the National Party even bothered offering voters during the last election campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222316d00b75e74e2db2c6c776703552c5\u0022\u003EGST and New Zealand Superannuation\u2014Rates and Eligibility\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbf881ef17364c9aac60aa88fb0601e9\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has he received any reports advocating an increase in both the GST rate and the age of eligibility for New Zealand superannuation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00228a7d6c23ccd441c8a72462292c7ebc65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a7d6c23ccd441c8a72462292c7ebc65\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a report from the OECD that, amongst a number of unhelpful suggestions, suggests that we should increase the rate of GST and cut New Zealand superannuation, either by raising the age of eligibility or lowering the level of indexation. Mr English subsequently endorsed that report. I can assure the House I have no plans to increase the rate of GST or to change the age of eligibility or, indeed, the indexation requirements for New Zealand superannuation. I call on all members of the House, other than Mr English, to endorse that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b601fbadc5224ae083074ce6d9e98eb3\u0022\u003EHon Mark Gosche\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports on when proposals such as those in the OECD report were last implemented?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b775809e93224422be6f84d60391c4ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: As Mr English has just said that that was a stupid idea, I should note that in 1998-99 the New Zealand Government of the day, of which he was a member, cut national superannuation from 65 percent of the average wage for a married couple to 60 percent of the average wage for a married couple. One of the first things the incoming Labour Government did was to restore the level of New Zealand superannuation to 65 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002207ebf977c5ee4a07859ec7b44edbcac7\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014OECD Assessment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f37a49e3d8548299e486b4810022bdf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the OECD\u2019s assessment of his fiscal policy that \u201Cexercising greater restraint now could avoid a longer, and possibly more, painful macroeconomic adjustment process.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u00225f023662948c43f685a2e452542ea405\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f023662948c43f685a2e452542ea405\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It would, in fact, be helpful to give the full quotation: \u201CGreater fiscal neutrality is likely to be unpopular given public pressure for tax cuts and/or additional public spending that would reduce the projected budget surplus. Nonetheless, exercising greater restraint now could avoid a longer, and possibly more, painful macroeconomic adjustment process.\u201D As Mr Key last year said that there was room for $11 billion a year of tax cuts, perhaps Mr English, if he is so keen on the OECD report, could give a copy to Mr Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225815f3a481514d6bae3fcddf6eca10fb\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the statement made by Dr Bollard, Reserve Bank governor, that the official cash rate review on 26 April this year stated: \u201CAs we noted in March, demand is being fuelled by a buoyant housing market, increases in government expenditure, a rising terms of trade, ongoing net immigration, and a robust labour market\u201D; and does the Minister agree, or disagree, with the reference to Government expenditure in that statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229859289b37334240ba7b862b27e93fd6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have slightly more up to date information. When that is released, very soon, it will show that Government spending is running at below the forecast level. The Government is running a substantial cash surplus in the current year. In other words, the Government is taking more demand out of the economy than it is putting into the economy. Last year I was attacked, almost daily, by the members opposite\u2014Mr Key nods his head in agreement\u2014for doing precisely that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ccd0cac584a4b8f99254f408483cb37\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Is it now the Minister\u2019s position that his plans for significant new spending in the next two Budgets are having no impact on inflation and thereby on interest rates; and does that mean he disagrees with a further statement made by the Governor of the Reserve Bank: \u201CStrengthening domestic demand is being supported by a resurgence in the housing market and an expansionary fiscal policy.\u201D; and why does the Minister believe that his spending makes no difference, when everyone else knows it does make a difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225724ebc59b254458a372ba6492c8af74\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: What is crucial is the balance between spending and revenue; and this Government will continue to run a tighter fiscal policy than the National Party, which the member belongs to, promised at the last election and continues to promise day by day, as every spokesperson opposite issues press statements calling for increases in Government spending in his or her area\u2014like Mr Power, only in the last few days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223166b14db8394ec18ab308204cc7e7b1\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: When is the Minister going to stop fighting the 2005 election and actually account to the country for his economic management, under which surges in Government spending are contributing to higher inflation, higher interest rates, and a higher exchange rate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7d35e2d313443b28b31743f87b257d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I will get over the 2005 election much sooner than that member will get over the bitterness of losing in 2002, which affects his attitude to any sensible suggestions about running this economy. That is the man who sabotaged the talks around monetary policy, because he is so bitter about 2002.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dcd9365e11847f88029c691cc9d9ba9\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: How is it that someone who is supposed to be the Minister of Finance blames the Opposition spokesman on finance for current economic conditions, and has also decided to flick off the central issue of the day\u2014which is the way the Reserve Bank is managing inflation\u2014to an inquiry by parliamentary backbenchers; and what is it that Doug Woolerton and Hone Harawira know that Treasury and the Reserve Bank do not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733cce61adf344ccb4bb2f8eff8cd3e5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I am fascinated that the member describes monetary policy as the central issue of the day, when only yesterday he said there was nothing wrong with the framework for monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e451b94b2c4f44a58aac6ac8171615\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Given the emphasis by the Governor of the Reserve Bank on the impact of Government spending plans on inflation and, therefore, on interest rates paid by New Zealand families, will the Minister support an inquiry by the Finance and Expenditure Committee into the effect of the Government\u2019s spending plans on inflation and interest rates and into the difficulty that the Governor of the Reserve Bank has in managing that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223499be1697e54edf84a98af20bc296e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have already written to the chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee suggesting that an inquiry would be a good idea, but the member, of course, keeps citing potential cuts in the corporate tax rate as being a large part of the increase in Government spending. If there are any such cuts in the Budget, I look forward to Mr English leading his troops into voting \u201CNo\u201D for tax rate cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df573fc00a04248a6187ab07f09603e\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why should New Zealand families and businesses listen to Dr Alan Bollard\u2019s message to tighten their belts or else he will raise interest rates, and to the Minister\u2019s own message to them telling them to save more and consume less, when the Minister has no plans to tighten the Government\u2019s belt; and why should the Government not carry its share of the burden in the fight against inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286547ee1c9244a0eae9db021410f36da\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government, for the last 3 years, has been running very, very large surpluses. I have lost count of the number of press statements from members opposite attacking that Government fiscal policy. The Government will continue to run a fiscal policy that meets our long-term fiscal objectives of reducing Government debt to no more than about 20 percent of GDP. This is one of the tightest fiscal policies in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873caef33aaa4c088ece29f9838aeac9\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that he is just telling Parliament and New Zealand that he has no intention whatsoever of adapting the Government\u2019s plans to the reality of the current economic circumstances, which are putting people out of jobs in the export sector and pushing families into 15 percent and 20 percent increases in their interest rate outgoings, because he has decided that what he does makes no difference to the economy and that he is right and everyone else is wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce07d353833478a849c78dc14aa1d22\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member seems not to read his own press statements. Mr English, over the last 2 or 3 weeks, has said that the only thing wrong with monetary policy was that Dr Bollard did not increase interest rates earlier and higher than he has done. That is what Mr English said, and that is why he just confirmed in the House a minute ago that if there are tax rate cuts in the Budget, he will vote against them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eb913cfd5d84aca8d0fb5817373ea68\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister take the responsibility that goes with his job, exercise some judgment about the current economic circumstances, and pull those levers that he can, including a cut in Government spending, and stop trying to play games over monetary policy\u2014over which he has no influence, at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d92aae79b3314c8e9843f74172289f3d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: When the member sees the Budget, he will realise that I have pulled a number of levers. One of them will open up a trapdoor, down which he will fall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c6e642afe6e4991a821efd128308b81\u0022\u003EPensions and Retirement Savings\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022574fe14c59b94e6bab4038ddb6772f6b\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has he received any recent reports regarding New Zealand\u2019s public pension system and retirement savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022df9351f8aa864b0ea313ef00832c4b5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df9351f8aa864b0ea313ef00832c4b5a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I mentioned earlier, I have received a report from the OECD calling for an increase in the age of eligibility for New Zealand superannuation. I have ruled this out, but the report was endorsed by Mr English, the Opposition spokesperson on finance. I have also received reports showing that in 1998-99 the floor for New Zealand superannuation was cut from 65 percent of the average wage to 60 percent by the then National Government, of which Mr English and Mr Ryall and others were a part, and restored to 65 percent in 2000 by the incoming Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b062f83f9964970b698322b5b4ab6cb\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports suggesting New Zealand should completely cede its economic sovereignty to Australia, and unnecessarily expose our exporting and agriculture sectors to fluctuations in world mineral prices, among other things beyond our control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a22ccf68f5400d943bdadde34d3960\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed I have. I have seen a suggestion from Mr Key that we should adopt a common currency with Australia. Actually, that has never been on offer. What is on offer is adopting the Australian currency. This would mean that we would be highly influenced by the very much larger increase in minerals prices than has occurred in New Zealand\u2019s agricultural prices over recent times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295225a7355504e759ce07ccbdaf71754\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Can he tell the House what successive Labour-led Governments have done to protect New Zealand superannuation into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223137d7612ad84f7bb681c2e3ca05b30f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: In 2000 we restored the level of New Zealand superannuation. We also established a superannuation fund that, along with our prudent fiscal strategy, has made us one of the best-placed nations in the world to tackle the challenges of an ageing population. On 1 July this year the KiwiSaver scheme comes into force, which will make it easier for New Zealanders to save to supplement their retirement income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e95c1b4d641e4b7e808063b1beeb1ac4\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Ratings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d2c1f7a373a4205816ee8c885cc73b3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his earlier statement rating the health system 5\u00BD out of 10; if not, what mark would he give the health system now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022488e45f10c894bdabb323e273c033641\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022488e45f10c894bdabb323e273c033641\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I mark the health system as \u201Ccontinually improving and expanding\u201D, because this Labour-led Government has always made health investment a high priority and will continue to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a20bd9918924e27978ca3f6856c6f1c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Will he assure the people of New Zealand that if they are admitted to hospital today, they will not face the series of systemic mistakes that cost an 82-year-old man his life in Auckland; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ca641b934c47848496054a2b0c0ed6\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Of course I can offer no such assurance, but I do note that the Auckland District Health Board has improved its systems remarkably in the 2\u00BD years since that unfortunate and tragic mistake occurred. I would say to the member that errors occur in all hospitals throughout all the health systems in the world. This Government is intent on reducing those errors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225da2e0f889924b7b878231f3211ded08\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: On what basis does the Minister claim that the health system is continually improving and expanding, and would he like to give some examples?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293aa7b90722240519deca8941a4d9327\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: There are many such examples, so I will need to be brief. Immunisation rates are up, infant mortality is down, smoking is down, breast screening is up, mental health services are way better, there are more nurses, there are more doctors, there is more transparency, there is better primary health care, there are lower doctors\u2019 fees, more elective surgery, and longer life expectancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6f92119dd484aca8fe4702c00074fee\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Have the ongoing disruptive and costly strikes in the health workforce, and the recent deaths at Christchurch, Wellington, and Auckland hospitals resulting from deficient care, affected the Minister\u2019s rating of his system; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b6672008d27486c9a8738a705c5d7bc\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do recognise there has been a recent spate of reports into deaths\u2014some of them recent, and some of them not. As some of the deaths and misadventures within the New Zealand health system, including the one reported in the New Zealand Herald this morning, occurred 2\u00BD years ago, I think assuming some link between that and industrial activity is drawing a pretty long bow, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd8cee2ca6c84c0ab61322af9e452065\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Would he tell the wife of a 25-year-old man who turned up at the Christchurch Hospital emergency department in agony, only to be sent home to die 12 hours later, that the New Zealand health system is improving all the time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f7b633fd9084e6b95fa14dc9543f30f\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: That was the tragic incident of a 25-year-old man from Coalgate in Canterbury. However, the member will be aware that the circumstances surrounding that incident are themselves the subject of an inquiry by the Canterbury District Health Board. That inquiry, I hope, will be forthcoming with ways to try to prevent a situation such as that from arising in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204609a09b8e14058bc8422da5dae6ed7\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that the health system could benefit from contracting out more elective operations to private hospitals; if so, is he prepared to encourage district health boards to do so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0ca3e4865a410fa985c75ebbd093c5\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: District health boards are already utterly free to do so\u2014and many do. The fact is that most of the capacity for elective surgical services in New Zealand resides within our public health system. To the extent that the private health system can assist, it does so\u2014as long as the price is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224225681eaf4545118a77cc9bcc5c74d2\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that if district health boards negotiated operations with private hospitals for the mid to long term, the cost to the public purse would be dramatically lower than it is at present, when district health boards demand surgery for the following week and must then pay the high spot cost; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caadbf7c2c7c487fa989db1ff806ba94\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The fact of the matter is that district health boards contract with the private sector across a variety of terms. If they have a short-term need, there is a short-term contract. Some of the contracts are sufficiently long that there will be a price advantage to be secured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022517880d7330b475dbde714d819d478a8\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain how the Government is spending an extra $4 billion a year on health, yet the quality of our public health services is under continual question, with report after report showing that patients are dying because they cannot get even a basic standard of care under his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bc9d31ad9fc444181504a52b7008132\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member chooses to abandon perspective. The Health and Disability Commissioner\u2014the person who reliably brings these errors and tragedies to public notice in this more and more transparent health system\u2014has certainly not lost his perspective. Let me quote the Health and Disability Commissioner from last week: \u201CMany, many thousands of people every week who are involved in health care will in the end base their confidence by their personal experience. And so if that personal experience is positive\u2014and it probably is in the overwhelming majority of cases\u2014I guess that is the crux of public confidence.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250fbabd52a934c68bd705a02200ca17c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Why should New Zealanders listen to the Minister\u2019s message that New Zealand\u2019s health system is improving all the time, when he and his Government are spending an extra $4 billion a year on the public health system and there is hardly any improvement at all in the quality of standards of service for patients in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c694911b9194b488c80130938456000\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Immunisation rates are up, infant mortality is down, smoking is down, breast screening is up, mental health services are way better, there are 5,000 more nurses, there are 1,000 more doctors, there is a lot more transparency, there is better primary health, there are lower doctors\u2019 fees, there are lower prescription fees, there is more elective surgery, and there is longer life expectancy. That is what the member gets for his $4 billion investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ae37989b80d4f7cb1b5e326a535a0e1\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: What would the Minister say to the family of the Wanganui woman who died after being referred by her general practitioner to the hospital three times and after being discharged three times in 11 days\u2014each time without the hospital informing her general practitioner\u2014and how, after spending an extra $4 billion a year on health, can the system not manage basic communication between a hospital and a general practitioner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227000353ff7ac46f6b1fc0ce92e46ad67\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that there has been a particular spate of instances at the Whanganui District Health Board. As a result, there are a bunch of ministerial appointees helping the Whanganui District Health Board to look at its system. That work continues, and there will be continual improvements in that district health board because I am demanding it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022383d8810fc0b454e92bbbf457208fbe1\u0022\u003EPacific Island Families\u2014Living Standards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edab6aec35624871992921fc2b214ead\u0022\u003ETAITO PHILLIP FIELD (Independent\u2014Mangere)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment: Has she received any recent reports relating to the living standards of Pacific Island families? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2732ebdb7de41a29b44bc4178014e56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2732ebdb7de41a29b44bc4178014e56\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I receive a range of reports on a number of topics relating to Pacific Island people in New Zealand. I often hear from Pacific people themselves on how this Labour-led Government\u2019s Working for Families package is making a real difference to their families and communities. I also receive reports on how many more Pacific people are in paid work; for example, as at the end of March this year there are now 2,568 Pacific people on an unemployment benefit in the whole of New Zealand. That is an outstanding 78 percent reduction from 12,300 in 1999 when National was in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227725248dae0b4116b75fc568c00b3133\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: How does she reconcile her claims that living standards have improved, given that the Social Report 2006 indicates that the proportion of families with any Pacific members with low living standards increased from 49 percent to 54 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c806dc208da45bba1744d960ff49702\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: The figures the member refers to are from 2004, before the Working for Families package was introduced. The Working for Families package is increasing the incomes of hundreds of thousands, and our Pacific Island families, and is lifting tens of thousands of our children out of poverty. We have made big progress. We saw an issue and we dealt with it. Yes, there is still more work to be done and we are getting on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cb86bdee35848c8bb8fab520b5495d3\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: How is this Labour-led Government raising the living standards of Pacific Island families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284fe1bd250314addade785eb217a8234\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: Since the mid-1990s Pacific peoples have improved in nine out of the 10 outcomes that the Social Report 2006 measured. These outcomes are: more school-leavers with higher qualifications, less cigarette smoking, more attainment of tertiary education qualifications, less unemployment, more employment, higher median hourly incomes, fewer populations with low incomes, greater housing affordability, and less household crowding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7cee61efa3847d5b358061a26f7888b\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister provide some details on how the Working for Families policy has impacted on the living standards of Pasifika families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f7f4a228bf54e2cacee82b5a1f78bce\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: Through our Working for Families policy we have invested heavily in families, including many of our Pacific families. The package targets tax relief where it is needed most\u2014families with young children. A Pacific family with two young children earning the median income\u2014$58,000 a year\u2014will now be better off by $136 per week thanks to the Working for Families package. This improvement in household incomes lifts an estimated 70,000 children over the income-poverty threshold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2345ffb1fdd4d139bc610836a5996de\u0022\u003ETaito Phillip Field\u003C/span\u003E: How does she reconcile claims that living standards have improved, given that the analysis of a new Ministry of Health survey of children\u2019s nutrition has found that an astonishing 40.8 percent of Pacific children, 22.9 percent of M\u0101ori children, and 7.7 percent of European children aged between 5 and 14 sometimes or always ate nothing before school; and, given those reports of escalating proportions of Pacific school-age children going hungry to school each day, what is the Government doing to alleviate this problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265aa629a20fc4e5c843a6d2bce589603\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my previous answers, Working for Families has made an enormous difference, and certainly the Fruit in Schools programme has made a terrific difference for Pacific families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff50d0224c0d466f936dfa16f8b6f65e\u0022\u003EEarly Childhood Education\u2014Free Hours Participation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b220becdc8a4ac0b897947a853249cf\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: How many 3 and 4-year-olds will \u201Cdefinitely get\u201D 20 free hours of early childhood education on 1 July 2007?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdf31d364a7e4861a099f1d9694a0e90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdf31d364a7e4861a099f1d9694a0e90\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E It is good news. From 1 July this year up to 90,000 3 to 4-year-olds in teacher-led centres will be eligible for Labour\u2019s 20 free hours policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da125ca5d38a4520b79bb5724d7bd45f\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: As it is clear from that answer that the Minister has no idea how many kids will actually receive 20 free hours early childhood education from 1 July, what is his response to the Montessori Association of New Zealand calling the policy \u201Cmorally wrong and something that will undermine the quality of early childhood education in this country.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e41b57afba44f2a81c6be39c62ca231\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Puzzlement, because I met with the Montessori group just last week\u2014along with 12 other parts of the early childhood sector\u2014and members of the group at that time advised me that they have one particular issue with the policy: that unlike most centres they retain children who are aged 5. Most other centres pass them on to a primary school at that time. They said they want to come into the system, but it would take them a little bit longer to work out how to handle it, given that they retain those 5-year-olds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251c84f2a04044421b4ddac1924e41224\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence does the Minister have that 20 hours free early childhood education is well supported?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a30073dd5914b638debf1908009728e\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a great deal of support from parents and from the sector. For example, the New Zealand Childcare Association said last week that \u201Cfree 20 hours\u2019 gives parents more choices,\u201D and that they are confident that \u201Cthe quality of the service will not be compromised\u201D. Over 160,000 parent attestation forms have been ordered by early childhood centres up till now. That goes alongside the enthusiasm of parent John Key, who said: \u201CWe want our young kids to have the 20 hours\u2019 free.\u201D, but, of course, the policy is not supported by people like Paula Bennett, who has asked for it to be scrapped because she wants to make room for tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c5de4be4540429c9527243c25a7941a\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain to the House whether, having gained approval from parents of all current students that they will pay for additional provisions over and above 20-hours-free provisions, a centre will be able to refuse enrolment of a child whose parent at a later date refuses to pay such additional costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250cbe20a2fe348d1b9dcb1998052fa73\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The way the rules work\u2014as the member will know and is wanting to confirm\u2014is that 20 hours\u2019 free is free; that a centre can establish an optional charge with a parent, and that once that charge has been established and agreed to by the parent it is enforceable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d81cd9a491a4b28981e3d20aa7e70b9\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister concede that it looks bad for his policy when the Early Childhood Council says it is dangerous, that it is \u201Cthe biggest threat to quality of early childhood education in a generation\u201D, and that \u201Cif this policy goes ahead as it is, the quality of early childhood education in New Zealand is set to fall. Teachers will be laid off. Educational programmes will be cut.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13e9e6d38c44965b94687168d565ef6\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Once again I have to say I am curious, given that I met last week with members of the early childhood sector, including the Early Childhood Council. I also know that 70 percent of its members have already decided that they are in, or that they intend to come in. So I assume that what the member is reading is a memo about an internal debate going on within the Early Childhood Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de22a97bae3d4957a78edf221800b9b3\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that even if he does not think 20 hours free was an election promise, parents obviously do when they now have to start a group called 20hoursfree.please and a petition asking Labour to deliver on that promise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ad53d0565624ca2aa641a437d95877f\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the parents who are involved\u2014the eight to 10 of them who are currently running the petition\u2014are parents who do not currently have children involved in early childhood education. The 92,000 who currently do are the ones who are currently being talked about. As the 10-year strategy unfolds for early childhood education\u2014we are 5 years through it\u2014we have more registered teachers and we open more centres. All parents who are eligible will be able to get their children in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4201c7a4eb844ffb447d585a32ce094\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when a number of early childhood associations and councils keep telling the Minister this policy is flawed, and when parents have to start a petition to explain to the Minister that this policy is flawed, does he not just admit that parents will not get 20 hours free for their 3 and 4-year-olds as promised by this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d3b128a47924e848e26f6c32d06eab6\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I am determined to implement this policy because I want to prevent the National Party members from ever having a chance to scrap it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c129c7bfb3e945b681712edf74c52375\u0022\u003EDefence\u2014Policy Assessment and Capability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a102cd1c1a45bd849d5b1f66bfa6ee\u0022\u003EDIANNE YATES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Defence: What reports has he received assessing New Zealand\u2019s defence policy and the New Zealand Defence Force?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa17e1f05dae47d088e0da6db94d674d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa17e1f05dae47d088e0da6db94d674d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday the Australian Strategic Policy Institute released a report on New Zealand\u2019s defence capabilities and relationships. The report was overwhelmingly positive about what had been achieved under the Labour-led Government\u2019s building up of our defence forces after the massive rundown of armed forces under National during the 1990s. The report concludes\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bec0071cf76e462190e5d9e3c2fd2a53\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. It is becoming very difficult to hear the Minister, who is, in fact, addressing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f4c3bd779f4757a1cb9b9de4a7555a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The report concludes that the armed forces are \u201Cbecoming modern, [fully] capable operational forces\u201D that are \u201Cadopting appropriate levels of modern technology\u201D. On key relationships with Australia and the United States, the report states that New Zealand\u2019s defence relationships with both countries are \u201Cstrong and getting stronger\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b4391a9a2c4ac2931ce096ef4e9ae1\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: What does the report say about investment in the New Zealand Defence Force and its current capability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c15f893e8d4ede97c0d718e3639df7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The report acknowledges the impact of the $3.5 billion investment in capital equipment in the long-term development plan, and the additional $4.6 billion through the Defence Sustainability Initiative. The report states that the current Government\u2019s policies, if they continue, mean that the armed forces are fiscally sustainable compared with the previous situation in the 1990s. The report concludes that, as a result of this Government\u2019s policies and strategy, overall, the New Zealand Defence Force is \u201Cas capable today as it has been in the past thirty years, and as capable as it needs to be.\u201D That is a ringing endorsement of this Labour-led Government\u2019s defence policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba0a1ab325454f639a46e52e184b7ce6\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government guarantee that the frigate that is to be deployed to the Gulf next year will be able to protect its crew, given that the ministry itself says that one of the frigate\u2019s major self-defence capabilities, the torpedoes, will be unsupportable in 2008, and are not scheduled to be replaced until 2015, and the ministry has actually said there will be very serious risks in the Gulf if they are not replaced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f12ca9860ea2408395b63c9c684638df\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member will find that by the time the capability of those torpedoes expires the Navy will have replaced them. Not only that; if the member cares to look at the 2006 long-term development programme, he will see a range of other things that are being done to enhance the self-protection of the Navy. While I am commenting on the Navy, can I say I am sure the member will be very proud of the fact that this Government is commissioning seven new ships under Project Protector over the next year\u2014more than National did in the entire 9 years of its failed Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e12ab75c7614c79abc3be0c46ab65ae\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister not accept that the best evidence one can rely on for making an assessment as to defence capabilities is the actual performance of Defence Force personnel on the ground, and could he share with the House some of his observations, and my observations, from our recent visit to Afghanistan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9c85113b7541e194085c06d53759a0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I agree entirely with what the member has said. I had the privilege last week, along with Mr Mark, of visiting the New Zealand provincial reconstruction team in Bamian, and talking to the local people and to the local governor about the team\u2019s performance. Every member in this House ought to be proud of the capability of the team\u2019s members and of the professionalism of what they do and the way that they do it in building up a strong partnership with the local people. The team is much admired, with a great deal of gratitude being expressed by the local governor, by Hamid Karzai, the President of Afghanistan, who mentioned it specifically, and by the local people whom those New Zealand troops serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e13986f097a458089525773eb56f828\u0022\u003EDianne Yates\u003C/span\u003E: Has any progress been made in respect of the question of attrition in the armed forces, which is raised in the report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244ec1bbc67c145abb2f6375a253716df\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The figures that Professor Rolfe, the author of this report, quotes in the report in fact are from 2004. Since then, attrition in the Army has dropped from 18 percent to 14.83 percent, and in the Air Force from 11.9 to 8.22 percent, while the Navy figures have held steady at 13.6. Overall, in the last year the strength of the New Zealand Defence Force has been increased by over 420 men and women. That is an increase of 3.7 percent in our Defence Force numbers in just the last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ac016599fc444649a252d7430a4458b\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278f3548c174e4967a558d33af1b8ad78\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How many photos are you in, Ron?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ab064ddc7c442f4b812d706dc60b2e3\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: If you shut up, Gerry, you will hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7df3d61fd844ffe82fd42f450adeb84\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Will the member please be seated. I ask the member to withdraw and apologise for that comment. I would also say that members who chip across the House provoke a response. I did not hear the comment that provoked that response; the response, however, was inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a986ef0d87942d28a62234543d365ce\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It seems it is becoming a pattern in this House that certain members of the National Party can chip in on a member\u2019s question. I asked a question of the Minister before, and you allowed Mr Brownlee continually to bellow. You did not censure him, at all. I barely had had an opportunity to start my next question before he started again. In return, I responded, and I am the one who ends up\u2014again\u2014being rebuked by you, while Mr Brownlee gets away scot-free every time. I just want to know where the fairness is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f44d8ef92de49469ba613e085a05559\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated! As I pointed out, the member\u2014and I did not hear whether it was Mr Brownlee who made the interjection that prompted your response\u2014was not bellowing. A member had obviously made a comment. I did not hear what it specifically was. As far as I am concerned, the matter has been dealt with. Would the member please ask his supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222efe554555dd41c7869b171aaba4614f\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister noted the comment made in the Australian Strategic Policy Institute report that the Army is stretched by deployments and cannot meet its requirement to produce a battalion group without significant risk; and when will he, and the Government, approve an increase in baseline funding for the Army to allow it to bring both its infantry battalions up to full strength, with four rifle companies\u2014one of those companies being a ranger company\u2014as recommended by the Labour Party and the New Zealand First Party in the Inquiry into Defence Beyond 2000 report back in 2000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022006aa3f5cfb249d7a7f28560653c4af9\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: It is fair to say that, with the high operational tempo of the New Zealand Defence Force, at times our infantry regiments have been stretched. We have had, on average, at least 400 people deployed overseas through most of the last 7 years. Sometimes the number has been as high as 800. In the 1990s, or the 1980s before that, the numbers were much smaller. That is precisely why we introduced the Defence Sustainability Initiative, which will add $4.6 billion in expenditure to personnel and other areas. That is why we have increased\u2014as the member will have learnt from my answer to the previous question\u2014our Defence Force personnel by over 420 in just the last year alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cde5500fccdd43d1a6cbe2f9cd9cce81\u0022\u003ECorrections, Department\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f11548fefe1436e9dd57a10d545161a\u0022\u003ESIMON POWER (National\u2014Rangitikei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Does he have confidence in his department; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022f998e30a5dcf448b9288cad8fc889140\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f998e30a5dcf448b9288cad8fc889140\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, but there is always room for improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bd184e4f8fa4e4c81fb2cc9fd0a28c7\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Why has another inmate been beaten in a prison van, when the Minister told this House last year that he did not offer to resign after Liam Ashley\u2019s death because \u201CI have a clear responsibility to oversee changes to the corrections system to prevent such a tragedy from occurring ever again in the future.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9499dc5865749a5840fd603d7571c7c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Thankfully, such a tragedy has not occurred again. I instructed that changes be made at that time; they were made. I am currently awaiting the outcome of an independent ombudsman\u2019s report into prisoner transportation, and we are looking at other ways of improving the situation, including the use of restraints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297443a64105a4b2c8505942ddd462d19\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm his response to written questions that the project team he set up to review prisoner transport after Liam Ashley\u2019s death has yet to report back after 8 months, and has yet to meet with the Corrections Association to seek its input; and how can the Ashley family, to use his own words, \u201Cbe reassured that we are doing everything we can to prevent similar tragedies occurring in the future.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d7b234844c44d8988d4891a0244577\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I expected that project team to look thoroughly at this very important area. I expect that its report will be before me within the next week. I will take a look at the recommendations. We will discuss those with the union and with senior management, and make the changes as necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232476d3286f94522817f464a0e722a76\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s view that it is \u201Codd\u201D that prisoners who ask to be segregated are grouped together when being transported, or do he and his department have a different understanding of the word \u201Csegregation\u201D from the rest of the country\u2014including the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f43eb2d40a24b63890be32fb49496b7\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The prisoners were separated according to policy. It was odd that we had a mix of prisoners in that one compartment. That is why we are making changes\u2014to ensure that such a situation does not occur again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022537c9239317444b19a906039868ff310\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister know that \u201Csegregated\u201D means to be kept apart?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222955ca3cbe964e2fbd943efbd662cff1\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Segregation does not mean isolation. Prisoners are managed within the prison system according to policies related to segregation. Those policies are consistent, both in the prisons and in the transportation system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d604d58bb2854c4eab78a548aff16e09\u0022\u003ESimon Power\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister have confidence in his department when it spends $100,000 a month transferring prisoners around the country\u2014including spending almost a half a million dollars a year on chartered air flights\u2014and paid $190 a night to keep inmates in police cells 57,000 times in the last year, at a total cost of just under $11 million; and how much time do these inmates actually spend in their own cells?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8a18d97081d4968b10bc6cea88e3054\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No one would deny that running the corrections system in this country is a very expensive exercise. We will do whatever is necessary to ensure the safety of the community, and as we transport prisoners around this country we will spend the money necessary to ensure that safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022774a4f0be528421a879fb3f3bad71e98\u0022\u003EWater\u2014HydroTrader\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c9cdc8fa4448e9b3fbe491b18671e8\u0022\u003ETARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does he stand by his repeated statements to the House that \u201CThe Government regards the water resource as a resource that local authorities \u2026 will continue to manage on behalf of all New Zealanders.\u201D, given that a private company, HydroTrader, has been set up to make the trading of water permits easy, anywhere in the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8679601f002452eb7f2d267171b9785\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8679601f002452eb7f2d267171b9785\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The Government has been very clear on its position and approach to water management\u2014that is, that water is a public resource that the Government and local authorities will continue to manage on behalf of all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022555585b950464a4fb694a225260f1dfd\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: What protection will be given to M\u0101ori and other river users to ensure that companies are not seeking more water than they can use, which they can then sell on as a tradable resource?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e712b53055f46d6a5f2339c79929f27\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: Although there may be mechanisms such as HydroTrader\u2014and I will come back to that issue in a moment, and to the correspondence that has gone to the regional council on that matter, which in that company\u2019s words is aimed at facilitating the transfer of permits\u2014I tell the House that the important thing is to recognise that the HydroTrader website, or any other similar website or mechanism, cannot guarantee a water permit. It may put parties in contact with each other, but transfers of water permits are controlled under the Resource Management Act and everyone has proper access to that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022443fb8fe760442ef8dc2554d3dc82eaf\u0022\u003ESteve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: How has the idea of water markets been received?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d6f73f58144b68917552044dc19b81\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I can advise the House that the National Party appears to have endorsed the concept of water markets. I am advised that both Nicky Wagner and Jo Goodhew\u2019s Aoraki electorate chair, Mark Oldfield, are elected members of the Canterbury Regional Council, and appear to be pushing for the privatisation of water. I can advise that the Government has no intention of establishing markets for the trading of water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0dab225b2e8458abb4c392f9aa44589\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora t\u0101tou. Is the Government supportive of the trading of water as suggested on the HydroTrader website; if so, whose water is being traded by HydroTrader, and are companies specifically set up to buy, sell, or lease water ?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91da193ba1b4425bd25363bf68621d9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: No. From the beginning of the Sustainable Water Programme of Action, as is evidenced in the discussion documents for that process that the member is in possession of, the Government has made it quite clear that the process will facilitate the transfer of permits but not trading or market development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873b2f8998be45e4af341b3ba3909df3\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government not introduce a resource rental for the commercial use of water, in order to recognise that it is a part of our common wealth and to fund environmental management and co-management, rather than allowing private commercial operators, as at present, a rent-free, pre-emptive, and exclusive right to use and pollute water, usually expecting ratepayers and taxpayers to pick up the tab for the clean-up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022813ad64436b547ab8d6151a1e9895d6e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: If the member or the party he belongs to would like to advocate policy change in that direction, they have the capacity to do so as part of the Sustainable Water Programme of Action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e046e219a954cb2abdbe592ee11bc44\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: What action, then, will the Minister take over statements made on the HydroTrader website that the Government is supportive of the trading of water as being consistent with the Sustainable Water Programme of Action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b300afdca81f4b2fae1c6ea0cd424ff7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: On this whole matter, my colleagues the Ministers of Agriculture and of Forestry and I will shortly be reporting to Cabinet on the progress that has been made on the Sustainable Water Programme of Action to date. That progress includes the proposed national environmental standard on water measuring devices, and the development of a national environmental standard on environmental flows\u2014the work on that is progressing well. Cabinet decisions have not yet been made, however, on the national policy statement on freshwater management. That will take place once initial consultation on the proposed national policy has been undertaken with stakeholders and M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207525723981c4f3aaf5e090783332569\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was on what action the Minister will then take over statements made on the HydroTrader website that the Government is supportive of trading water. He has not answered my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254fe4f27f48e4b6ebd5986d7e5947aee\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen those statements. When I have done so, I will consider them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bfe52e571759487181b262380412cfcb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022757d5aed187447ae93aac4e498cc6aa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022757d5aed187447ae93aac4e498cc6aa9\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. This question was originally set down to the Prime Minister. Although National members appreciate that the Government can transfer questions, the reality in this case is that it deals very directly with a statement made by the Prime Minister. It is very difficult for any other Minister to say whether the Prime Minister stands by her statements. We realise there is a degree of sensitivity from the Government around the issue of copyright in artworks, but, notwithstanding that, we seek leave for this question to be held over until such time as the Prime Minister may be able to answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b59ce72e3614482acd90fe2e1551c65\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b30875f2d81e44faa1adf591239ba398\u0022\u003ERoyalties\u2014Artists\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3f7279035854dbf84740332dcb96c48\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: Does she stand by the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that the Government \u201Cis honouring another election promise to examine international developments relating to resale royalties for artists and their possible application to New Zealand\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6f1581862e541328ba6ff10d2c5f7f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6f1581862e541328ba6ff10d2c5f7f7\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E As the joint issuer of that statement and on behalf of the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, yes, in 2005 the Labour Party, as part of its arts, culture, and heritage election manifesto, stated that it would examine developments internationally relating to resale royalties for visual artists and their possible application to New Zealand. Two weeks ago, on 16 April, the Government released a discussion paper inviting feedback on options for a resale royalty right. Submissions on this discussion paper close on 22 June and those submissions will assist the Government\u2019s consideration of a possible resale royalty right scheme for visual artists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022905d0460bc184723a337661f169a2df9\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House whether royalties will be paid to the person who painted the artwork or the person who signed the artwork?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbbe9e5b06334be8981ce2659fe4d99b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest to all members interested in this issue that they look at the discussion paper and have a submission in by 22 June, when the Government will consider the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221928d98de884a60b912608e7efcc8e5\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: On a little bit more serious note, is the Minister aware that many New Zealanders are of the belief that when a homeowner sells a painting to another homeowner a royalty will have to be paid; and, if this is the case, will the Minister explain how it will be policed and by whom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a55ed2b688ab4edeb13fe0ba73369a2e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest to all members that they read the discussion paper. The issue about whether private sales are dealt with is covered there. The issue remains that when a painting is sold commercially, the dealer gallery gets a cut, the auctioneer gets a cut, and there is a practice in over 50 countries around the world that the artist\u2019s copyright is also recognised. It is more a royalty and intellectual property right than a commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b82ac48fea4040409b92d7f5535bdee7\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any advice from Crown Law on what criminal offence would be committed by someone obtaining monetary reward from resale royalties in circumstances where that person had signed an artwork she did not create?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268c5283cb7f34550b3c7cafcc38222d3\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is fairly broad of the general question, but I call the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238c23f1e9f864d69b01fddcb450ab758\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, and particularly when no money was sought by anyone signing a particular work, of course no royalty would apply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c198df7214844282b601c4d030ee6d8a\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: If it transpires that an artist\u2019s works are devoid of any artistic merit so that they end up being resold for a pittance\u2014or indeed are valueless\u2014would the artist be required to pay compensation under a resale royalty scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abbd69d2e8ad44f09f2244177c2457fa\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am very concerned that a speaker who claims to be interested in the arts is trivialising an important intellectual property debate. All I would say is that I would rather trust the Prime Minister\u2019s artistic taste than that of most members of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2419b527db248208b8aab494e39ff63\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is so very concerned about payments to artists, why does she not do something about the appalling royalties paid to writers by Radio New Zealand and Learning Media Ltd, and the shambolic administration of the Authors\u2019 Fund by Creative New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208c1d670f5124b68b8651d6d0f1bdd5a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree with the last assertion, and representations have been passed on to the Minister of Broadcasting and the head of Radio New Zealand. I will continue to assert the rights of all creative workers in New Zealand to be properly paid for what they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3d5fc83ab1141a3abb9bfa6fc439f77\u0022\u003EWorking For Families\u2014Tax Credit Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9a0df1f1bed4e7b8565239b9b66168d\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Has he received any reports on proposed changes to Working for Families tax credits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022 data-id=\u0022b154d6a12d2b41da96e6bdcdc88bb47c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b154d6a12d2b41da96e6bdcdc88bb47c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a surprising report in today\u2019s Christchurch Press, which proposes that the Working for Families tax credits, which currently go to middle and low income families, should be redistributed to the wealthy. Under the proposed roll-back an estimated 160,000 families would lose about $50 per week, and an estimated 60,000 families would lose tax credits. For a Kiwi family with three kids and a mortgage, and earning around $52,000 a year and currently receiving $246 per week under the Working for Families package, the proposals would see that family lose some $80 per week. That proposal, of course, comes from the leader of the National Party, John Key, whose main interest appears to be putting as much money as he can into the pockets of his wealthy mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c6ff0189afd494c95c7dcb2ac1fab68\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: What would be the effect of taking tax credits away from middle and low income families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022330c030b-99be-4461-8aaa-9a10ee5bd889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022844eb47952c14281b989df2a75dbfac2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENSON-POPE\u003C/span\u003E: I can advise the member that Working for Families tax credits have, among other things, lifted an estimated 70,000 children over the income poverty threshold. New Zealand is expected to move from 18th place on the Unicef Innocenti report card into the top half, and possibly into the top quartile in terms of the reduction in child poverty. The effect of Mr Key\u2019s proposals announced today would be to reverse that trend. I seek the leave of the House to table a document entitled It Works Just Fine, which refers to the effect of the Working for Families package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ae4df2085048509f030a26e2a7ecc2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f19f38cb4344d489f35bb6a131fbdbc\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ea459b5797745248f0265622eb6dd9c\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000189\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 5 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002256bdb1b7589e461fafeb3d94db8835b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256bdb1b7589e461fafeb3d94db8835b0\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to continue the debate on the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. I would like to assure the House that National supports the idea of concessions and a discount card for senior citizens. We all appreciate the contribution that our older people have made for us, but I want to make sure that senior citizens understand clearly the very limited scope of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be9ad248de1149549c0cdb27ba7beb62\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Would members leaving the Chamber please show some courtesy to the member who is trying to address the bill. Courtesy is contagious, and we will all prosper if we keep within the spirit of the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224417050620094575ba2b43b7537bcda5\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. This bill is only a technical amendment and does not guarantee the delivery of any services at all. It reminds me of the fairy tale The Emperor\u2019s New Clothes. Members will remember the story. It is about an emperor, a gorgeous peacock of a man who loved clothes and all that was glittery and gaudy. He loved, and he wore, shiny fashions, jewels, and baubles. Members will remember the story; the emperor bought a wonderful new \u201Csupergold\u201D suit, of which he was enormously proud, but that suit proved to be a mere illusion. Alas, when the poor emperor was out parading in front of his people a little boy pointed the finger at the sham, and the emperor discovered that he was stark naked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EToday I am really concerned that the Minister of Foreign Affairs might just find himself equally as naked and exposed. This Minister has made lots of lovely promises when talking to this bill. He says that it will create a card that will carry a range of concessions and discounts available from central government, local authorities, and businesses. National supports rewarding elderly people, but the problem is that this bill does none of those things. All it does is set the rules to allow an entitlement card\u2014any card\u2014to be issued by the Government. The bill amends the Social Security Act 1964 so that the Government can issue a card, with a photo and microchip; although, in line with the dog microchipping legislation, I am pleased that the select committee has voted against microchipping grannies! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act so that information from the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths, and Marriages can be used to verify entitlement to this card. That is very ironic, considering that the Government, on the one hand, is passing legislation so it can use that information and, on the other hand, is also trying to pass legislation that will not allow you, me, or anyone else who wants to study the history of his or her family the same access. How equitable is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBut what this bill does not do is provide business discounts. It does not make any concessions at all. It does not provide anything that is real or tangible to make life better for seniors. Yes, I know that the Minister has promised these things, and I know that he has promised them by August 2007, which is only 3 months away. That is why I am so concerned that he may be caught out stark naked. Nobody seems to know anything about the details of these business discounts or concessions. I have not heard anything in the media and I have not heard any advertising from companies that would like to be involved. So I called the 0800 number Ruth Dyson was promoting, which was set up to give information about the card. Firstly, I spoke to the consumers\u2019 hot line, and guess what? No, the hot line did not know what concessions there would be, and no, it did not know of any companies that were interested in the card, although it was sure\u2014it was very sure\u2014there would be some. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThen I spoke to the hot line for companies that were interested in being involved, and guess what? No, it did not know what concessions would be available, and no, it did not know what companies were interested. In fact, it did not even know what a company had to do to apply to be involved, but it was very sure that there would be some companies, and it was sure that they would all be set up by August. What faith! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo I would tell the Minister that, after all that, I was even more concerned. National members know that senior citizens are looking forward to the card and we support that, but only if the card actually delivers something. Otherwise we have an expensive piece of puffery\u2014just like the emperor\u2019s new clothes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis bill creates only a card; a blank cheque, so to speak, that someone has to provide the credit for in order to underpin the promises. With 3 months to go before the card\u2019s issue the public has no idea of the value of the card, it has no idea what companies will be involved, and it has no idea what discounts and services may be available, and I fear that it will become just a costly way to access those benefits that are already available. There is a real danger that there will be nothing new and nothing of value offered by this card\u2014and then there is a very real danger that a little boy might just point this out to the Minister, and he will be left out there in the cold with nothing on but his birthday suit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00220458c6d286624ed9a22028f3f68d0d63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220458c6d286624ed9a22028f3f68d0d63\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the second reading of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. This is legislation that the Labour-Progressive Government was very pleased about, and we were excited to be able to work with New Zealand First on it as part of the confidence and supply agreement that we have. We have a lot of hope and optimism that the SuperGold card will be something that older New Zealanders will be able to use and get benefit from, in their thousands, in the years ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIt is time for us to have one central card for older New Zealanders that makes clear not only the range of Government services that are available to them but also, through negotiation, some of the commercial benefits that may be available. It is time to have those things on one card: the SuperGold card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EObviously, the age demographic of New Zealanders over 65 is about half a million\u2014about 540,000 New Zealanders are in that age bracket\u2014so they are quite a significant purchasing group, if we choose to think about it in that way. They want to buy things in a number of areas that are conducive to their being able to have, in effect, a discount card\u2014a SuperGold card\u2014that reflects the contribution they have made to New Zealand over many, many years. Of course, it is also very handy, when the Government is so busy doing so many things to try to make life a little easier for our superannuitants, that a card can exist in a form that makes it very clear which services and benefits are available. This is one of the things that central government does to try to help older New Zealanders out after their long working lives, after long lives spent raising families, and after their having served New Zealand in times of conflict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EAnzac Day provided us with another reminder that every year there are fewer and fewer of the World War II generation still with us, but they are still a very important part of our country\u2019s history. That is one of the reasons, I understand, that the SuperGold card has been pushed for\u2014to be able to give tangible recognition to those 540,000 people who are over the age of 65 and receiving New Zealand superannuation or a veterans pension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4450095a4e9400ab235f70b04f6d6dc\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b7b254783346b784bae7f7470b3c43\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs call out: \u201CHear, hear!\u201D, but I think he has quite a few years to go before he will be in receipt of this SuperGold card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a35f5a97a48741af858ca2a6635b5362\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250e102d02e334b5283945301c1c15f45\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: By then we will really have it in place, so I say to the Minister that it will be really cranking by then. There will be businesses lined right up by then, and quite a lot of people will be able to benefit from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe thing about this SuperGold card that we are bringing in is that it is another reminder of the coordinated effort we are trying to make for our older New Zealanders. Just a month ago today, on 1 April, New Zealand superannuation\u2014an entitlement under the parent legislation that we are debating the amendment to this afternoon\u2014was increased by $40 per fortnight for a couple. We pay our pension out every fortnight, so per payment it is $40 extra for a married couple, and $26 a fortnight\u2014or $26 per payment\u2014for a single superannuitant. That is a significant increase. Members have to recall that just last year New Zealand superannuation went up, as well\u2014by $20 a payment. That reflected the confidence and supply agreement that the Labour-Progressive coalition Government has with New Zealand First. We raised the minimum base of New Zealand superannuation for married couples to 66 percent of the average wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI am sad to say that this commitment we have has not always been shared by all parties in the House. We all remember the terrible time when Bill English was the Minister of Finance in this country and New Zealand superannuation was cut. We heard that member say today in question time that he thinks the Government spends too much money. That is news to my constituents, because they want extra Government money spent on electrifying railway lines, building the Western Link Road, and getting Transmission Gully up and running. We want Government spending in these areas, yet the National finance spokesperson\u2014the same man who cut New Zealand superannuation in the 1990s\u2014used question time today to say that the Government spends too much money. I am very disappointed that that is his view, because putting a $40 per payment increase for married couples into New Zealand superannuation makes life a little easier for our pensioners. That is a real Labour-Progressive Government achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWe are working with New Zealand First, as part of our agreement, to ensure that that kind of increase, which comes along from the general money we get together through our taxation, makes a big difference for those New Zealanders for whom it is a bit of a struggle to make ends meet when they are on a low, fixed income. To hear that increase being criticised and opposed by the Opposition is a shame, because that is an entitlement under the Social Security Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThis card is a reflection of a lot of the services that are available to older people. I think particularly of the rates rebate scheme, which had a massive increase last year\u2014up to a $500 maximum rebate for our senior citizens, and the level at which it starts to abate out, or reduce, increased massively by up to $20,000. A lot of senior citizens think that if they earn over $20,000, they cannot get a rates rebate, but that is not right. They can still apply for one. The amount of the rebate is reduced according to how many extra dollars they earn over $20,000. That has been a great policy that a lot of superannuitants have been able to take up, to try to help pay their rates bill. Obviously, our councils are spending a lot of money on infrastructure and generational assets such as that. If superannuitants can get some assistance from central government by way of a rates rebate, then that will be important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe Government made important changes for drivers over the age of 80, which came in last year. That is another service for older people that is available from the Government. We got rid of the previous National Government\u2019s\u2014and Maurice Williamson\u2019s\u2014really savage compulsory test for all drivers over the age of 80. It was not a fair test to have. We now have a medical \u201Cfitness to drive\u201D test that has been welcomed by organisations like Grey Power. Such organisations have also welcomed the SuperGold card that we are debating at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EOf course, the Government provides all sorts of services that might be able to be worked in conjunction with this card, which provides people with the ability to use Government services and businesses, as well. One of the areas that I think of immediately is the phase-out of asset testing that the Labour-led Government has commenced over the last few years. On 1 July this year funding in that area will increase by another $10,000\u2014and up to $170,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe other thing the Labour-Progressive Government has been busy doing is rolling out the primary health organisation strategy, to reduce the cost of going to the doctor and paying for pharmaceuticals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223367e15640a940eea67f1568d12076c4\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: A very busy Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273a52c08100d4f58abdb41f567953e88\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: It is a very, very busy Government, as the Hon Jim Anderton says. We are flat out around here. We are trying to do as many things as we can for old people. We are trying to get this card to be the best that it can be, and trying to make a real effort in that regard to give a tangible benefit to our older New Zealanders, which is such a crucial thing. For older New Zealanders the cost of picking up a pharmaceutical has now fallen to $3 for subsidised medicines. In a number of areas the cost of going to the doctor has about halved. Every year we used to see doctors\u2019 fees going up. We know that older people go to the doctor in large numbers, and they access health services, so that policy has been important, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe Government is making a great contribution by putting aside a slice of the surpluses we are running today\u2014from the economic prosperity we have today\u2014into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, so that this country can afford to pay for an ageing population as the baby-boom generation comes into retirement. Those people deserve to have dignity in their old age, as well. So one of the big drivers from the Government service point of view, which we are debating in respect of the card, has not been to talk about just the 540,000 people in our country who are retired and will be eligible for this card when it comes in, in August but also about the New Zealanders who are yet to retire. The New Zealand Superannuation Fund is a very important part of that, because that is a case of the Government saving for its own future. Now we have to try to encourage ordinary workers to be able to save out of their wages and salaries, as well. I know that is hard, because a lot of families are struggling to get by\u2014they are just keeping their heads above water. Despite the fact that there has been an increase in the minimum wage, and the introduction of Working for Families tax credits, it is still hard to put aside money for savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIt is my real hope that from 1 July this year, when KiwiSaver comes in, we will get a real focus in our country again on savings, so that it is about the Government saving for the future with the Superannuation Fund, not being irresponsible with the surplus and frittering it all away. That is what the National Party wanted to do at the last election, when it proposed $11 billion of tax cuts. To fund those tax cuts it was going to borrow half of that figure from offshore. We will not go down that path. Instead, we are using the surpluses from today to be responsible and to build up the Superannuation Fund, so that our country can afford to pay that guaranteed rate to those aged 65\u2014to pay at least 65 percent of the average wage to married couples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ESo we can begin to see how important this bill is in respect of the SuperGold card, because it involves the real bringing together of the two areas. The Government is doing its bit to try to help out older New Zealanders and to make life a little easier for them, and to help working families that are coming into retirement. Also, the business and private sector can offer their goods, services, and products at a lower cost to our pensioners, thereby recognising the fact that there are 540,000 of them and they are a significant buying group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI welcome this card. The Labour-Progressive Government is very pleased to be supporting it this afternoon. We know how important it could be in the future for people going forward. I welcome the second reading of this bill, and I thank the Social Services Committee for the work its members have done. I also thank the Minister in charge of the bill, the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022752ef23e63a4476ab4800c4df945d549\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022752ef23e63a4476ab4800c4df945d549\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I want to take just a short call on the second reading of this bill. At the first reading I raised a number of issues that the Green Party had with the SuperGold card. One of those issues was that this is effectively just a loyalty card, and very similar to the type of loyalty card that businesses all around the country provide for their members in various forms and in various ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe continue to question whether it is necessary to have legislation that establishes just another loyalty card that will incorporate existing schemes, and perhaps might drive some new ones, but which really has limited benefit in that respect. But, at the same time, it was an issue that was part of the deal between New Zealand First and the Government, so I can understand why it is now in legislation. But, really, we could be doing more important things for superannuitants in terms of protecting their interests. One of the key areas where we could do that, and one that the Greens and New Zealand First agree on and have both worked on in the past, is the elimination of the exemption that allows for some superannuitants to have their superannuation means tested against income they receive from some overseas pensions. There has been a petition to the House on that issue. There continues to be a great deal of lobbying and involvement on that issue from Grey Power and from other organisations that represent older people\u2019s issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIf we are to have a truly non - means-tested superannuation, there is no justification for these few people to have their income means tested for a superannuation scheme that they are involved with, have worked for, and have been part of when they lived overseas. There has never been any good reason for it, and it could be dealt with very simply by a rather small amendment to the legislation to make sure that the superannuation really is non - means tested, as it is said to be. That would be a better use of legislation, and a better use of this House\u2019s time, rather than this loyalty card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI hope that between New Zealand First and the Greens we can progress this further with the Labour Government. It really is unnecessary to have such an exemption. It is unfair for those older people who have worked very hard for those pensions overseas. They are entitled to them and deserve to have access to that money, and to their entitlement in New Zealand to New Zealand superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe other issue we raised was microchips and whether it was justifiable that this legislation should include microchipping. At the time it was rather amusing, given the other microchipping issues that were going on, but there is real concern still within the Green caucus as to whether a provision allowing for the future use of microchips for this particular card is the appropriate way to deal with that issue. I know from my colleague Sue Bradford, who was on the select committee that heard the discussion and dealt with the issues in the bill\u2014on my behalf, because I could not attend\u2014that there was intense discussion at select committee level about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E The issues were canvassed widely and for some time. But at the end of the day, if we are to enact legislation, there is still a question of making sure that it is useful, that it is the right thing to do, and that all of the issues around the legislation have been dealt with properly. We would much prefer to see a review of, or an inquiry into, the use of microchips. A number of our caucus members are very keen to see such a thing, so that where these bits of technology are in use, it is in a context of considered principles around their use. A great deal of consideration should be given to the privacy implications of microchips, and real protections should be put in place for people for whom this technology might be used. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI am aware that the bill has clear protections against which microchip information could be used. For example, the bill states that a microchip would include only the information already included on the card\u2014that is, the cardholder\u2019s name, the identifying number assigned by the department, the commencement and expiry dates of the card, and the kind of information that is very specific to the use of the card itself. The issue with microchips is that other information can be placed on them quite easily in the future. The legislation might confine that information now, but later legislation may expand it and provide for greater use of microchips in these contexts. That is not necessarily what was intended with this particular card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EA number of our caucus members still have real concerns about the bill and at the Committee stage we will be looking to see whether we want to support the calls by some other parties to take out that clause or whether an amendment might be more appropriate. Or perhaps we may consider that it might be OK to leave the bill as it is, but with some kind of intention from other parties in the House to hold some inquiry into, or to debate the use of, that technology, to find ways of confining its use to only those absolutely necessary requirements and principles. We look forward to that debate in the Committee stage and to the bill\u2019s later debate. It is certainly not a clear issue for us at this stage and we offer no guarantees for future votes. We will be looking very carefully at what happens in the next few weeks. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022a82ae9ae65e2437abc87a60693cbdfb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a82ae9ae65e2437abc87a60693cbdfb7\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. I te mea kua taki whakat\u0101 t\u0101tou i ng\u0101 r\u0101 kua hipa ake nei, me mihi r\u0101 ki \u014D t\u0101tou mate kua hinga i ng\u0101 wiki e toru kua hipa ake. Ko Don Selwyn t\u0113r\u0101, ko Bob R\u0101wiri t\u0113r\u0101, ko te tini, ko te mano kua hinga i runga i \u014D t\u0101tou marae. Ko t\u0101ku noa ake, ko te poroporoaki i a r\u0101tou, haere, haere, haere koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHuri mai ki a t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare, t\u0101tou kua hoki mai ki roto i ng\u0101 pakitara o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to all of us in the House. Because we have rested well during the days in the 3 weeks past, it is fitting that we acknowledge those of us who passed away in that period\u2014Don Selwyn, Bob R\u0101wiri, and a host of others who fell on our courtyards. I want to farewell them by simply saying: depart, depart, depart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI turn to all of us in the House, those of us who have returned within the confines of the Chamber: greetings to you, greetings to you, greetings.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E It would appear from the outset that the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill has not exactly taken the nation by storm. I understand that three submissions have been received and one heard. But none the less there are two important issues that the M\u0101ori Party wants to raise in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe first is that of the intention of the bill to improve the living standards of our senior citizens. We believe that a commitment to our elders is a worthy goal that we, the M\u0101ori Party, wholeheartedly accept. We all know the stats about the increasing poverty levels of elderly people in Aotearoa. The M\u0101ori Party places particular priority on valuing the contribution and continued participation of our elder people. We believe that the SuperGold card will help our pakeke to have easier access to services and facilities\u2014as outlined by Mr Hughes\u2014and to be able to benefit from concessions, which can only be good. Such a proposal, targeting the aged and elderly, will ensure that we protect the special place they have in our society as repositories of experience and knowledge. In that respect, this bill has our full support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe are happy to put forward our support also in recognition that older M\u0101ori people experience a worse health status than their non-M\u0101ori counterparts in a range of indicators. In February of this year a report produced by Public Health Intelligence, the ministry\u2019s epidemiology group, revealed the grim fact that at the age of 50 years both M\u0101ori males and females had a shorter life expectancy than non-M\u0101ori. The data also revealed that M\u0101ori suffer from higher hospitalisation and mortality rates for almost all types of cardiovascular disease, cancer, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe weird thing is that the data also reveals that M\u0101ori males aged 50 to 64 were significantly more likely than their non-M\u0101ori counterparts to report doing physical activity\u2014as is borne out right here, I suspect, in the parliamentary complex we currently sit in. For proof of this assertion, all one needs to do is go down to the gym on any day and one is bound to find Mr Tau Henare\u2014even with a push and a shove\u2014Hone Harawira, Mr Clem Simich, our trusted Kaiwhakam\u0101rama Reo W\u012Bremu Haunui, our loyal security guards, and many other mighty M\u0101ori men working up a sweat on the treadmill. In fact, I have also been known to lift a few weights, sprint a couple of hundred thousand miles on the treadmill, and play the odd game of rugby for the greater good of the parliamentary rugby team in my time. I have a photo to prove it, by the way. But despite this, we suffer shorter life expectancy. The rates for renal failure and lower limb amputation are significantly higher for M\u0101ori, and the prevalence of doctor-diagnosed diabetes is over two and a half times higher in M\u0101ori males aged 50 to 64. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe support the proposal to give effect to the SuperGold card to enable M\u0101ori seniors to be eligible for Government entitlements such as New Zealand superannuation, the veterans pensions, and community services card entitlements. But there is one snag, and it is a biggie\u2014namely, clause 5(2). The clause amends section 132A(2) of the Social Security Act 1964 in creating a new regulation-making power. In its effect, this allows the entitlement cards to contain the information, as set out in the subsection, on either a magnetic strip or an embedded microchip\u2014as was spoken about by Metiria Turei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EEvery time we access the Internet, draw a salary, dial the phone, join a club, enter a hospital, hook up to Sky television, or zip zap our credit cards for the weekly groceries we are giving up our rights to privacy\u2014whether or not we know it. So we might ask: \u201CWhat\u2019s another smart card amongst many?\u201D. The Government insists that it has no plans to implement smart-card technology in relation to the SuperGold card, or indeed entitlement cards generally, at this time. That is no problem. We say to the Government that it should delete the clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe key issue, as the New Zealand Law Society pointed out in its submission, is that this will be the first time in which legislation has been introduced to authorise the use of microchips on cards on such a large scale. It has massive implications. We are talking about around 340,000 seniors who already have community services cards. Why would we venture down the track of an embedded microchip that the Privacy Commissioner herself has expressed serious concerns and reservations about? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMarie Shroff, our Privacy Commissioner, has asked a series of questions that take us to the very heart of the concern around privacy and personal freedom. How do individuals have any real control or choice? How will the information be kept up to date and accurate? Who will be able to access it? How could it be misused? What protections are there? Will its advantages outweigh its disadvantages? Those are all important issues that this House should consider if it wants to proceed any further along the microchip line. Indeed, Miss Shroff has recommended that the proposal not proceed until a comprehensive assessment of the potential privacy impacts has been undertaken. We in the M\u0101ori Party absolutely agree with her. We have consistently raised our concerns about the snooping culture and the environment of surveillance where Big Brother is the holder of all power. We support the call from the Social Services Committee that a more general inquiry into the use of microchips, particularly around issues of privacy, must be undertaken before any legislation allowing microchips is enacted. We are assured by the Ministry of Social Development that if clause 5(2) were deleted from this bill there would be no immediate impacts to prevent the launching of the SuperGold card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETherefore, we are happy to support the bill as a useful way of recognising the contribution that pakeke continue to make to Aotearoa. We most strongly object to the proposal in clause 5 relating to the microchipping function. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u002214b45c62907647a496731aa00b0b73e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214b45c62907647a496731aa00b0b73e3\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to follow the speech made by my good friend Te Ururoa Flavell in which he raised his concerns, fear, and suspicions. I have to tell him, as a recent past president of Grey Power, that members of Grey Power do not share the paranoia expressed in that speech. Grey Power represents the older generation, who carry with them the years of experience, the maturity, and the wisdom that bundles up to make one heck of a good bundle of common sense. As Mr Flavell will find out if he ever gets the chance, it is no easy ride to speak to a Grey Power meeting. It is no easy ride, and that is not because they do not understand, and not because they will be taken advantage of. It is no easy ride because they know the answers to most of the questions they will ask. They can assess the response and judge whether the person speaking is talking fact or fiction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI invite Mr Flavell to repeat his speech to Grey Power and tell them just why the diversity of options available to our older members of society should not be reduced to a SuperGold card to make it easy for people to access the benefits that this Government is unfolding one step at a time. What the member\u2019s speech was really about was suspicion and a lack of belief in the integrity of the older generation and those who try to help provide for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThat is what this bill is all about. This bill is in fact the reflection of a Government that keeps its word. The SuperGold card recognises the contribution that senior citizens make to New Zealand, and it fulfils a commitment made as a part of the confidence and supply agreement that this Labour-led Government has with New Zealand First. It is this carrying-through of promises\u2014which is the hallmark of this Labour-led administration\u2014that ensures stable coalition Governments in this era of MMP. It is this carrying-through of promises, this basis of good faith, this belief that people in this country will do their best and that the people who endeavour to rip others off are few and far between, and this underpinning belief in the goodness of humanity that will ensure that a Labour-led Government will be returned to power after the next election. People know they can trust a Helen Clark - led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI think it is important that I go back to the basis of this bill, because a lot has been said already this afternoon, and perhaps those listening to the debate might lose sight of what the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill is all about. I speak as one who is part of a long line of those who have delivered this bill to the House. As I said, the bill is the fruition of the negotiated working agreement between New Zealand First and the Labour Party at the time of the formation of the last Government. The proposals quickly came to the floor of the House and were sent off to the Social Services Committee, of which my good friend Georgina Beyer was the chair. Georgina saw the referral of this bill to the select committee, the advertising of calling for submissions, and, in fact, the hearing of submissions. When Georgina retired from this House to go to greener pastures, I took over the chairmanship of the committee and saw through the sign-off of the ultimate report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to create a SuperGold card, which will be available from August 2007. That is just 3 months away. The SuperGold card will recognise the contribution senior citizens have made and currently make to New Zealand. It is important to remember that. In fact, on Anzac Day, last Wednesday, most of us in this House probably took time out to celebrate. What was Anzac Day if it was not a celebration of the value of the senior citizens in our community? Those who attended Anzac Day memorials from dawn until dusk, as I did in Napier, would have seen a large number of senior citizens and their supporting younger families. What was significant at the dawn service in Taradale this Anzac Day was the number of younger people. It was probably the largest turn-out at a dawn service in Taradale in living memory, and, of course, the turn-out was that of the younger generation supporting the senior citizens and honouring the contribution they made to the New Zealand we have today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis card carries on that vein of support and celebration of our senior citizens. This card will enable senior citizens to access discounts and concessions from participating businesses. My friend Mr Flavell was postulating about the dangers of microchipping, but it is not compulsory to have a gold card. It is not a mandatory requirement; it is an opt-in requirement. So those opting in will carefully consider the benefits and the disadvantages, and the evidence before the Social Services Committee suggested that there were very few disadvantages. The committee recommended that there be an inquiry into microchipping only as a matter of caution, and it could be an inquiry that may be worth undertaking by the committee later this term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EIt is an opt-in card, so that our senior citizens can access discounts and concessions from participating businesses, the Government, or local authority services. It will indicate the eligibility of senior citizens to Government entitlements, such as New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension, and, for seniors, it will replace the community services card and the New Zealand superannuation card. Both of these cards have shown that cards are useful to senior citizens as they go about their business and take advantage of that which is offered to them because of their age and past contribution to New Zealand society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EJust recently, I was speaking to a Grey Power meeting in Napier\u2014in fact, to the very chapter I was president of several years ago. I proposed to speak for 20 minutes, and the question time that followed lasted for over an hour. I had to call an end to the vigorous question time from a large turn-out of members whose questions were all engaged in, and encouraging of, what this Government is doing. They were, of course, interested in the rates rebate scheme. They celebrate the fact that the Government recognises that pensioners on lower incomes are getting assistance with rates. As values of properties rise there is a downside for those who are not real estate agents\u2014that is, those who pay the rates. As the values of properties rise so too does the value of the rates rebate. It is now sitting at $500 for those who are entitled to the maximum benefit. Of course, the gold card will assist our senior citizens to access benefits such as the rates rebate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe SuperGold card will offer the option\u2014I say option; it is not mandatory\u2014of including a photograph of the cardholder. So if a senior citizen wishes to have his or her photograph on the card\u2014and I have to say that it seems to me to be a very good idea indeed\u2014he or she can indeed have a photograph. In future there will be the possibility of embedding a microchip in the card. If we extend that step of microchipping, it will make even more available the many benefits that this Government is underscoring and developing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EIt has been a pleasure to represent the senior citizens of this country in this House. It is a matter on which I often reflect. As we rush toward the folly of youth, looking for young blood leadership, we sometimes turn our backs on those of advanced years who have the vigour of youth. Some, such as me, can both be a Grey Power president and have children at primary school. That is a combination I recommend to most of our senior citizens if they can get the right marital combination. However, I do urge those who are married to stay married rather than seek alternate partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI endorse this gold card to the House. I am delighted to take part in the second reading debate on this bill, and I listened with some interest to the carping criticisms of the previous speaker for the National Party, my friend Nicky Wagner, who once again raised her shibboleth\u2014the emperor with no clothes. She seems devoted to mentioning it\u2014she mentions it in every speech she makes. I suggest she turn one day to a better metaphor, or maybe lift her horizons above the clothing of her leaders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI commend this bill to the House. It is my absolute pleasure to speak in support of it. Although it is easy to minimise the benefit of this bill, it is very risky to overlook the convenience it offers to senior citizens as they go about their business. It brings into one card the access to the many benefits that this Government has delivered upon. I think one of the most outstanding benefits is the assurance of a base level to the superannuation benefit. I remember too well watching a television programme that led to the birth of the Jim Bolger Government, where he gave an assurance that there would be no cut. The next day or so that promise was gone back upon. That is not the history of this Government. This Government is revealing a history of making promises and keeping them, and the delivery of this rather simple concept speaks loudly and poetically of what this Government is doing for our senior citizens. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1bf8bbb6dff449fac3d657597ed52a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1bf8bbb6dff449fac3d657597ed52a8\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I stand on behalf of United Future to speak in support of the second reading of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. It is fairly straightforward legislation. Perhaps the most interesting aspect of it is the fact that it contains some future-proofing provisions that allow for regulations to be made, should we have the need in the future to tighten up the ID aspect of the SuperGold card around things like photos and microchips. Submitters queried us on that issue, particularly in respect of the amount of information allowed to be contained on these cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EThe member from the M\u0101ori Party, Te Ururoa Flavell, alluded to some concerns on the part of the Social Services Committee that we were progressing this idea of the Government use of microchips for purposes of identification and holding information in a whole range of areas. Microchips are in passports now, and we have certainly made provisions in this bill for them. We talked about the fact that possibly this House had failed to have the wider discussion that could have been helpful around this matter\u2014particularly around Government use of this technology and the type of information that it is ideal to have covered. It was not a fear-based concern; it was more of a generalised discussion about where this technology would go and whether we should at some stage stop and have an important discussion about what we think is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ESome submitters were concerned that the SuperGold card would be available only to New Zealand citizens. They were reassured that everybody over 65 would be entitled to apply. Actually, there are some provisions for those under 65 who may come under the category of a non-qualified spouse to also be entitled to have one of these cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EOne of the other questions was around the issue of identity cards. I think the National Council of Women queried whether people who currently hold a community services card would no longer need it, as the information that that card provided would be contained on the gold card\u2014and, yes, the council was reassured that that card would no longer be needed. Something like 68 percent of over 65-year-olds currently hold a community services card, and this new SuperGold card will be able to act in that regard for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI agree with some concerns that there is an unclear area around exactly what Government concessions this card will ultimately entitle people to. But perhaps the greatest value of this card from United Future\u2019s point of view is the opportunity it offers the entire community to honour senior citizens. As I was taking part in Anzac Day, which we have all just enjoyed\u2014and I concur with Mr Fairbrother, who talked about how exciting it was to see the large number of young people who participated in Anzac Day celebrations\u2014I was reminded that over in Australia the Australian veterans have for years and years had a gold card, which provides in a similar way to the intention of this card. It gives the opportunity for the wider community to offer concessions and discounts to veterans. I know for a fact that many New Zealand veterans have felt for years a little bit short-changed by the lack of that particular mechanism within the New Zealand approach to caring for veterans. Obviously, veterans over 65 will be included in this opportunity, and I think that will be a way to facilitate a national outpouring of gratitude to a generation that has done us well and that we are proud of in this country\u2014for all sorts of reasons, not just for its military endeavours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EAs I said before, this card targets all senior citizens and provides access to a potential range of discounts and concessions. I am keen to find out, when this card is rolled out, what sort of publicity money and public relations spin the Government will need to put into notifying not just ordinary people about how they can apply for and get a card but also\u2014I think, more importantly\u2014all sorts of businesses and community groups, so that they understand that they have a real chance to become included in the benefits of this card system for senior citizens, and to make available opportunities for senior citizens to bring their cards out of their handbags and say: \u201CI\u2019m here and I\u2019m entitled to this discount.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EA question I had when we first started into this legislation was why we needed legislation; surely we could have just printed up some gold cards, made them available to people over 65, and let them be used. But concerns were raised that people who were not entitled to the cards could make copies of them and try to take advantage of their opportunities. So there was a real need for identification and a need to quantify what level of information we wanted to have contained on the cards, under what circumstances the information should be gathered, and where it could be stored and contained. It became apparent that legislation was probably the appropriate way to go about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EWe are very happy to support this second reading. I was a little surprised initially at the low number of submitters\u2014I thought we might have been inundated with people submitting on this\u2014but the ones we did hear from really reflected the fact that people were genuinely positively disposed towards this idea. So we are very glad to support the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b217819d48bb447da58125730720b621\u0022\u003EHuman Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002259904dc23c2a42b381106247f25fc8c8\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000265\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 4 April.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ff04297276a41dea0fb21f1bcfca636\u0022\u003EPart 2  Conseqential amendments to Employment Relations Act 2000 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5818e3d6bfa443bafd1af58c513e657\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5818e3d6bfa443bafd1af58c513e657\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call in support of Part 2 of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill 2006. I was pleased to speak at an earlier stage of the debate in support of the legislation when it had the form of a member\u2019s bill, and now that it is a Government bill I am equally delighted to rise to speak in support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI note that the purpose of Part 2 is to amend the Employment Relations Act. It is a new part, added unanimously by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. The consequential amendments to the Employment Relations Act 2000 provide that section 104 of that Act, dealing with discrimination in employment, is to be read subject to certain provisions of the Human Rights Act 1993 in relation to employment matters. One of the provisions of that Act is section 33, which allows discrimination in the armed forces. The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has recommended that this exception be removed from the Employment Relations Act 2000, and that is what the operative part will achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe laws of this country relating to service in the armed forces have always sought to make a distinction between the strict nature of employment as understood in the private sector and service under the Crown as occurs by sworn members, for example, in the armed forces. The employment relations legislation adopts a broad definition of employment, so using the expression \u201Cemployment\u201D in amending employment legislation does not do violence to the traditional distinction that has been maintained in armed forces and in the general law. The use of the expression \u201Cemployment\u201D to refer to service under the Crown in the armed forces as well as civilian employment therein is, as I say, a broad usage of the term and refers on a blanket basis to the service of all those in the armed forces and in the civilian parts of the service that support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EPart 2 is clearly a key part of the legislation given that it is effectively the operative part of the legislation, and it accomplishes an important amendment to the Employment Relations Act 2000. It is a pleasure to rise in support of it as it is the most important operative part of the bill, which, as has been said on previous occasions, achieves a very important milestone in the laws of New Zealand. It puts in place and enacts the practice that has occurred now for some years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ebc52714d8143329763a42618423fb5\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe there\u2019s anything exciting about it at all!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238151fe2120543a2bbe17e3f3acfec16\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I tell Mr Woolerton that I am very excited about it\u2014which is to permit women to serve in the front line, which has been operational practice for some time. It is appropriate from a human rights and an operational perspective, and, as I say, it accomplishes the purpose of the bill, which is very good legislation, and which I am delighted to support. Thank you, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00221e4b2c8e93a944bbbd04bfb99f303430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e4b2c8e93a944bbbd04bfb99f303430\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E One should not debate this bill today without, of course, reflecting on Anzac Day. I am sure every member in this Chamber would have had duties to perform on Anzac Day, and they are very, very important duties. It is a time when we pay respect to those people, men and women, who have served our country; it is not a time to politicise. I do note the Minister in the chair today, the Hon Judith Tizard, and I remind her of that fact as, certainly from what I have been told by my colleagues and from everything I have read, she perhaps took an unduly political approach to that day\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bf1a8e0fee944b1ab47d46f9a01e72d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Tizard\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was objecting to a political\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225923f975fc4844109586a07a0da07d96\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: She is, in fact, nodding to that. Minister Tizard, for the benefit of listeners, took an excessively political approach. Because, in truth, all members of this Parliament, irrespective of whether they are constituent or list members, represent the people of New Zealand. In representing the people of New Zealand we pay respect to their service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWhen we are considering this bill, which is a forward-looking bill dealing with amendments to the Employment Relations Act as it affects women in the armed services, we have to acknowledge that the issue is not just a matter of looking forward. Men and women have served our country over a very, very long period, indeed, and have shown great sacrifice. In fact, my colleague Judith Collins referred to the example of Nancy Wake and her service to our country. My colleague was extremely disappointed that this Government, out of the hundreds of awards that it makes every year, does not have the bigness of heart to recognise Nancy Wake\u2019s service. That is one of the reasons one uses the awards system and the Government is failing to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI remind the Minister in the chair that some years ago the Prime Minister did, in fact, recognise the service of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b9cb7c6ac0745488290108f09cc6be0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Part 2 is very narrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed0578fb780f45b0bdd6737e4e5fe126\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to complete the point that the Prime Minister did recognise the service of Lieutenant Colonel Curly Blyth. I am sure the Minister knows whom I am talking about. It was recognition of service given over a very, very long period of time. So I say that if it is good enough for Lieutenant Colonel Curly Blyth, it is certainly good enough for Nancy Wake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson has reminded me about Part 2, \u201CConsequential amendments to Employment Relations Act 2000\u201D, and clearly those do need to be changed, because our law has to conform across the board. We do have one law for all citizens, and, indeed, the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill is all about one law for all citizens\u2014that all citizens are treated equally before the law. I might add, for the Minister in the chair, that that applies also to all members of Parliament, list or constituency. They all have their role to play in representing citizens in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EClause 6(3), which refers to section 106(2)(a) of the Employment Relations Act, is specifically about the exclusions that existed in the Employment Relations Act that would have exempted this Act from applying to women in the armed forces. They obviously have to be excluded, because now those provisions are no longer appropriate. It is appropriate that the legislation\u2014the Employment Relations Act\u2014applies to men and women equally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ESo it is important, even in the context of a narrow debate, to understand why we are here today; to understand that we are recognising the role of women in our contemporary armed forces and the full role that they play. Any of us who read the various service journals and follow and talk to our service people know the incredibly important jobs they are performing for our country literally across the world. I think everyone in this Committee would applaud the service that they give to our country. Not many people, when they take employment, serve our country by putting their lives at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u00226100d294940a42d8a342762766b644c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226100d294940a42d8a342762766b644c9\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to rise to support this Government bill, the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. It is important that we recognise the right of every New Zealand citizen to serve and the role that those people then take on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI note that the previous speaker, Dr Wayne Mapp, referred to the transfer of the excellent member\u2019s bill, which Lynne Pillay introduced. His colleague Paula Bennett called on the bill to be transferred into a Government bill. We took that advice, thought about it, and did it. But, of course, Wayne Mapp has called the transfer \u201Cdesperation\u201D, which is an insult to the women members of his party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EJust as a matter of clarification in respect of the issues raised by Wayne Mapp, I point out that on Anzac Day I found myself at the 11 o\u2019clock service at the Auckland cenotaph. I was astonished, having been a regular attender for the last 15 years at the dawn service\u2014I normally go to the Point Chevalier RSA in my electorate\u2014to find that the Auckland RSA now allows, and calls upon, representatives of the ACT party electorate of Epsom to lay a wreath. It also calls upon representatives of New Zealand First and the National Party representatives of Auckland Central to lay a wreath. I gently made the point to the chair of the RSA that I had never seen political parties represented on Anzac Day. Indeed, I take off my Labour Party badge on Anzac Day, because I believe that Anzac Day is one day of the year that we should make no party political points whatever. I also note that Keith Locke was at that service and had not been asked to lay a wreath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022134a5b735048400fa8d767ef837d34fb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will speak to Part 2, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa24977f7d6441baef409a4f3132e9f\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I just say that I have had overwhelming support from a huge number of Aucklanders who agree absolutely with me on that matter. I hope the Auckland RSA will take that on board, just as we here in Parliament are taking on board the responsibility of all citizens, when they are called and when they volunteer for international service on behalf of New Zealand, to be able to serve in combat positions, whether they are male or female.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI hope that we here in Parliament will see this legislation taken forward, because I know the proud role played by women who at present serve in our armed forces. Also, I know, having had the honour of representing the Government and the people of New Zealand at the Gallipoli celebration, that the contingent from the Sinai was indeed commanded by a New Zealand servicewoman from our Navy. I just say that we are all proud of the service undertaken by those New Zealanders, whether in Afghanistan, the Sinai, Lebanon, East Timor, or all around the Pacific\u2014particularly right now in the Solomons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003EI think this is legislation whose time has come. Other forces with which we cooperate have women in combat roles. Although, of course, none of us ever wants to see New Zealanders sent in the way of danger, the fact is that that is what our armed forces do, and women as well as men can play that full role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2acea3b099f494aabde343953619698\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2acea3b099f494aabde343953619698\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E In rising to speak to Part 2 of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill, I just say to the Minister, in reference to the comments she made about Anzac Day and political parties recognising and paying tribute to veterans of the past by laying a wreath from their political party\u2014[Interruption] This is in reply, Mr Chairperson, to comments already made, and allowed to be made, in this Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270c1e1f305924ffdbd049b5789af3408\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: We are debating Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ef5f66f19b45349d7cd87ccea3218e\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I would say that the Government has consistently, ever since 1999 when it came into office, had Labour Party Ministers and members of Parliament fronting up at the cenotaph in Christchurch and laying wreaths on behalf of the Labour Government, so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a935bb8849643cd84e0dd05d9d42a0b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Part 2, Mr Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cae7725d6f94a4bb9e4ddc831bf1d10\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Part 2 is fine, Mr Chairperson, but we allowed those comments to be made by the Minister and they require a response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is supporting this bill\u2014and Part 2 of it\u2014because it recognises the reality of the defence forces today. There are a number of realities that people must take on board. Firstly, in my visit to Afghanistan over the adjournment with the Minister of Defence, and my opportunity to meet with, and talk to, servicemen and women employed in the provincial reconstruction team, the fact was obvious: there are men and women deployed into that provincial reconstruction team. One of the patrols that accompanied us out as we patrolled in the Bamiyan province, led by Major Paul King, had in its midst a number of female soldiers who were there carrying Steyr rifles. They were fully tooled to do the job they were trained to do. So the reality is that women are engaged in our defence forces at all levels, including the rather nebulous term \u201Cfront line\u201D. They are there today. They are working there today. They are doing the job today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EOne could argue, in fact, that this legislation is pointless, because women are doing the job that it will formally and legally entitle them to do. I guess that what we in New Zealand First would ask is whether it is about time we started to recognise that work. Maybe we could start by going back and recognising Nancy Wake, who is our first front-line woman to serve with distinction at that level. It is ironic, sad, and very disappointing, to the point of being hypocritical, not to recognise Nancy Wake\u2019s front-line service. We would argue that to continue not to recognise her is a breach of her human rights, is it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752156ea57d3403381fe8a581d444a13\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I just say to the member that I know I have probably been a bit too tolerant towards members from all sides when it comes to debating Part 2, but the reality is that Part 2 is a very narrow part. It is not an opportunity to explore the reasons behind the repeal of section 33. That is covered in Part 1. The debate should be confined to the removal of the references from the Employment Relations Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91363c541964840ac167c9a444c875b\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I accept\u2014and I do not contest\u2014your ruling. However, I ask for some guidance here. You have, unfortunately, allowed the Labour Party and the National Party to defer and to detour. Now you seek, in a New Zealand First speech, to curtail New Zealand First\u2019s right to respond in the same way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc80da28563d4944a8d09c1b8b198c44\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be seated. I respond to that by saying that the Minister was replying to an accusation made across the Chamber. I allowed her to do that. I accept that she went too far. The member, though, has only 1\u00BE minutes left, and if he wants to address the bill, then I think it would be better that he did that for his own political party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f864b9daa14ad28f0f2489411ebe5e\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. You did not answer, in the slightest iota, my question, which was about the fairness of the way you treat New Zealand First as opposed to the two old-hat parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a449b162b6fd4ad49c919ef0317f3b9c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Mark. I do not have to answer questions. I am actually here to ensure that the Committee runs smoothly. The issue is that we are debating Part 2. I am bringing the debate on that part\u2014which is quite narrow\u2014back to order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d511582a11443f8369336767289daf\u0022\u003ERON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: This is my first opportunity to speak on behalf of New Zealand First\u2014on any aspect of the Committee stage, I point out. We are supporting this part\u2014all one clause of it. I want to make it clear that the reasons New Zealand First is supporting Part 2\u2014clause 6(1), (2), (3)\u2014is that we generally agree with the supporting thrust of the measure it contains, which supports the entirety of Part 1, about which I was trying to speak. It is frustrating sometimes, being a member of the third-largest party in Parliament, to be treated differently from other people. I lament that, and I await further discussion on the title of the bill when that clause comes up for debate. It will be a wide-ranging one, and that will allow New Zealand First\u2014which has the only returned serviceman in its ranks in the Chamber\u2014to have a wider say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1e428444b5a4334be0e84058a53e2af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1e428444b5a4334be0e84058a53e2af\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call in the debate on Part 2 of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. Like the previous speaker, Ron Mark, this debate is also my first opportunity to take a call on the bill, and I am happy to support it, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EPart 2 amends the Employment Relations Act 2000. The point has been made time and time again that perhaps this bill is not only one whose time has come but one whose time has, in many ways, passed. But it is important that the law of this country reflects the practice in the armed forces and also endorses the very good work that the many women in the armed forces of New Zealand currently do overseas on behalf of this country. It is important to recognise the work that those women do, because in many of the countries in which they work there is, perhaps, a view of what women should be able to do, and what they can do, that is quite different from what we experience here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAll the feedback that we as parliamentarians get about the work that our women in the armed forces do in those countries is very, very positive. I think it is a compliment to all people in our armed forces, both men and women, that they are able to go into any situation\u2014in any culture, and in any country\u2014to operate in a dignified and tolerant manner, and to do so in a way that works towards reconciliation within that country without adding to any of its turmoil. For women that can be particularly difficult. Although it is very important that we make these consequential amendments to the Employment Relations Act in Part 2, it is also important to acknowledge and recognise the very difficult circumstances that some of our women in the armed forces can find themselves in when they are in countries where the values towards women are slightly different, and where that impacts on the way in which they must conduct themselves within those communities in working towards reconciliation without adding to any of the turmoil going on in the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhen we go through these amendments to the Employment Relations Act\u2014and they are an important part of this bill\u2014we see they will in no way diminish the work that women in the armed forces in New Zealand have done over the last centuries. Many of us in our own families know this from the military history. I had a great-grandfather, George Craig, who was a medic at Gallipoli. My grandfather was a soldier in Africa and in Italy in World War II, and he spent time in an Italian prisoner of war camp. My other grandfather was in the Navy in the Pacific. Much is known about those members of the family. Perhaps less is known about the contribution to the war effort made by many of the women in my family who had to hold the family together and continue to be the breadwinners. My grandmother plotted the course of many of the ships that were coming into the Pacific, and that was how she found out that her first husband had died. She plotted the attack on his ship as it came into the Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis amendment to the Employment Relations Act 2000 in no way diminishes the work that has been done by many of our women over generations in this country, even if that work has not been done in a combat role in the armed forces. But, of course, times move on, and women in New Zealand now play a very, very important role in our armed forces. They are up there alongside the men in the armed forces. They are doing fantastic work in peacekeeping and in various roles around the world, and in this new age we want to recognise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI congratulate Lynne Pillay on bringing the bill to the House, and I congratulate the Government on now picking up this legislation. We now want to recognise a new reality for many women in New Zealand\u2014that they no longer want an exemption from combat roles in the armed forces. Part 2 provides that, because it ensures that the Employment Relations Act does not in any way give an exemption to say that we expect everyone to be treated fairly in the workplace, that we expect total equality for all people in workplaces in New Zealand, but that there is an exemption when it comes to the role women play in the armed forces\u2014that they are able to exempt themselves from combat roles. Well, I think that women in the armed forces no longer want this exemption. It may be only a symbolic gesture, but it is a very important symbolic gesture to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAlong with many aspects of equality, and along with many of its rights, come responsibilities, and this is a responsibility. Our women currently do fantastic work all around the world, especially here in the Pacific, where their role really is appreciated, but I want to reiterate that they are not exempt in any way through the Employment Relations Act 2000. This may be a very small part, but it is, in fact, at the very crux of this bill\u2014that our women in the armed forces will now stand, once this bill is passed, on an equal footing to everyone else in that area. I again acknowledge the fine work that many women over the generations have done in New Zealand in this area, and the fine work that our men and women in the armed forces do today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022003dde6cc6a74683b6df5089827213cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022003dde6cc6a74683b6df5089827213cb\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to this very important part, Part 2, \u201CConsequential amendments to Employment Relations Act 2000\u201D, in this very important bill, the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. The amendments to the Employment Relations Act are very important ones, but I want to clarify for people who are listening and who may not have the bill in front of them that they should not be worried we are amending the parts of the Employment Relations Act that ensure we have fair bargaining happening in our workplaces. And we are definitely not amending the parts of the Employment Relations Act that ensure we have access to multi-employer collective agreements for groups like nurses, etc. No, section 106(1)(j) of the Employment Relations Act is being repealed, and section 106(2)(a) is being amended, which will ensure there is no employment discrimination on the basis of gender in any part of our employment legislation here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhile reflecting on this bill over the adjournment, I think that some of the activities I was involved in really brought home to me just how important this amendment bill is. As other speakers have said, it clarifies a situation that already exists, but it is important that our legislation reflects current practice, and that is what we are ensuring here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EDuring the recent adjournment many of us will have attended Anzac Day ceremonies, and I was certainly no different in that regard. I attended Anzac Day ceremonies in Cambridge, where I was at the dawn ceremony, and also in Morrinsville. I did not have any of the issues that some members have raised, in speaking to this part, of being crowded out by other members of Parliament wishing to lay wreaths. I was the only member of Parliament present at both of those ceremonies, and I was very pleased to represent Parliament there. But when the veterans were lining up, parading, and being applauded by people at those ceremonies, I did reflect on just how many women were involved in taking their part in the veterans\u2019 parade. Partly, we must make sure that we honour not only the combat role that women will now legally be able to partake in once this bill has gone through its stages, but also the very important work that women have always been deployed in when it comes to the defence forces in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EDuring the adjournment I also spoke with and met many women\u2019s groups throughout the country, and I have to say that this is not the issue that has been on the agenda of many women\u2019s groups. There have been many other issues that they have wanted to talk with the Labour women\u2019s caucus about, but this has not been one that has been at the forefront of their thinking. When we have raised it with these groups it has been the case that they have believed\u2014probably quite wrongly\u2014that the legislation was already in place that allowed women to take part and fully participate in the defence forces of New Zealand. It has been a matter of some surprise, even to many women\u2019s organisations, that in fact the legislative course was not in place for that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESo as well as ensuring that we repeal section 33 of the Human Rights Act, we must also attend to the issue that the select committee raised in its report back to the House. I thank the select committee members; they have done a very good job. This seems like a small piece of legislation in terms of the number of pages it involves, but none the less committee members did the very detailed work they are required to do. They picked up on these two other amendments that needed to be made to the Employment Relations Act 2000 so that we can ensure that all legislation backs up the policy that the New Zealand Defence Force now has, whereby the force allows women to serve in combat roles. That has been in place since 2000, and now the legislation is coming up to speed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022209703a1327a478680414f5880bc5a61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022209703a1327a478680414f5880bc5a61\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I welcome this opportunity to speak to Part 2 of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. I do so as someone who has spent most of his professional life advocating for a narrow aspect of human rights issues. It is a pleasure to speak at the Committee stage of this particular bill, just as it was in the second reading debate, because in my view this amendment is long overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EPart 2 is important because it addresses section 106(1) of the Employment Relations Act 2000. That Act is an inspired piece of legislation that has been under constant attack by the National Party\u2014but unsuccessfully, to date. As time goes on, we are seeing in our labour force the fruits of this Act, which is taking us back to fairly based employment laws. Section 106(1) of the Employment Relations Act provides that section 104 must be read subject to certain provisions of the Human Rights Act 1993 in relation to employment matters. That is the difficulty that is overcome by Part 2, because section 33 of the Human Rights Act allows for discrimination in the armed forces. There must have been many people, back in 1993 when this Act went through, who winced at the prospect of discriminating against women in the armed forces. But as the climate has changed in just 15 years, and the age of enlightenment is upon us, we can move to tidy up some of the idiosyncrasies that exist even in the Human Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis process is a constant reminder to us to be ever vigilant that human rights advocacy and legislation must be at the forefront of all the work that this Parliament does. At the end of the day, questions of justice, fairness, equality, and democracy depend upon a strong human rights basis. We have an economy that is booming, and in strong times, but a strong economy is only as good as the human rights ethic that underscores the fabric of the society that the economy is supposed to work for. That is why this change to the Human Rights Act, through the Employment Relations Act as amended by the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill, is welcomed. Once more it is a small correction sending out larger signals on the greater horizon. So I adopt the iceberg principle whereby although only one-tenth is above the surface of the sea, nine-tenths is under water, as we see in this bill. The ramifications of this Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill will, in fact, be deep and serious as we correct the Human Rights Act by amending the Employment Relations Act 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EIt is my privilege and pleasure to speak at this Committee stage. I would also like to have the opportunity to speak at the third reading debate on some of the wider principles involved in this legislation. One of the niceties of standing in the House, working in Parliament, and working in select committees is to see the intricate web that exists between various pieces of legislation. One of the hallmarks of our Parliamentary Counsel Office is that it recognises and is alert to the consequential amendments that occur. One could say, of course, that if Part 2 was not in this bill, nothing much would be lost, because the provisions in the Employment Relations Act 2000 would be redundant. But what this signals is the care taken to make sure that our legislation remains tidy and user-friendly. Every Act that is not amended by removal when it is made redundant leaves untidy ends, so some litigator or, more important, a lay person researching the law will have to spend unnecessary hours trying to understand why an Act exists seemingly in a vacuum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EPart 2 of this bill is not only a celebration of the role that women play in our society but an acknowledgment to the Parliamentary Counsel Office in this establishment\u2014to those many highly qualified lawyers who put together the legislation that we debate, and who address the consequential issues that arise. It is an act of diligence on their part, an act of careful scrutiny, and the results are reflected in Part 2. I support the passing of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002210843e2e494148bdb8964052f93d1753\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u00224391597cc7ad42cb9430f059604dce5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224391597cc7ad42cb9430f059604dce5c\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to rise and take a call in this part of the debate. I am certainly supportive of most of the comments that have been made on both sides of the Chamber. National clearly supports this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EIn an earlier debate I asked why, if this has been the policy in the armed forces for nearly 7 years\u2014and indeed it has\u2014it has taken so long for the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill to come to the House. In respect of some of the comments made by the previous speaker, Russell Fairbrother, who talked about democracy and equality and all those things, I say that, yes, those are all fine sentiments and we certainly support them in terms of human rights. But again, I note that it took 7 years for this bill to come to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe bill is here now, and we support it. All the speakers so far, I think, have made reference to what we all did on Anzac Day. That is good. It is great that we have a day like Anzac Day where we can in all solemnity, and in celebration, really, come together all around the country to pay tribute to those New Zealanders who served in theatres of war overseas in the past. Of course, increasingly, women are part of that experience. We applaud that and we salute it. We can only hope that as time goes on, the population mix in our country\u2014which consists of more women than men\u2014is reflected in our armed forces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill, as we have heard, is to remove the last vestiges of discrimination against women in the armed forces, and to allow them to serve in combat roles. My colleague Wayne Mapp\u2014or was it Ron Mark; I think it was Wayne Mapp\u2014was asking what the front line is and what a combat role is in the type of warfare and the type of security and defence that we see today. Sometimes it is difficult to discern, but none the less women want to be considered on merit. There is no need for any discrimination of any kind in our armed forces these days when we have had women Prime Ministers, a female Chief Justice, and females running some of the biggest companies. We want to see that in the armed forces as well. It is a particularly important part of our employment sector, and it is absolutely right that this House is supportive of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EIn an earlier debate I made some comments about the numbers of females in the Defence Force. It is slowly rising. In 2002 the overall percentage of female personnel in the New Zealand Defence Force was 14.9. It was 15.8 percent in 2003, 16.4 percent in 2004, 16.2 percent in 2005, and 16.5 percent in 2006. That is all good too, but I would query\u2014given the numbers of females in the New Zealand population\u2014whether the Defence Force has some long-term strategies to lift the numbers of women in the military. I hope it does. Perhaps someone might be able to enlighten us on that because I do think it is important, given the way our population is going. Even in terms of the ethnic mix of our population, I think it is important that the military has some strategies in place to make sure that its recruitment strategies match the ongoing change in New Zealand\u2019s demographics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThis bill is a worthwhile bill. In terms of the title and the purpose, it is proper and it is overdue. It is right that we acknowledge the valuable role of women in the military. I attended a service in Taup\u014D, which is my home town, along with Minister Mark Burton. We were both enabled to lay a wreath. As far as I was able to tell, I was laying a wreath as a member of the National Party and Mark Burton was laying one as a member of the Labour Party. That is the way the way the RSA and the civic authorities wanted it in our town and that is the way we did it. It was very good to be able to be part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00226ba24071b5624e5cb42d17855f1d811a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ba24071b5624e5cb42d17855f1d811a\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E We are speaking to the title of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill; I will just continue on from what I was saying. I note that when one reads the bill, one finds it indicates clearly that it seeks to give women the right to take up any appointment that they choose within the defence forces\u2014which is quite right and proper. Clause 4, the purpose clause, originally talked about the front line, and the bill recognises the desire and the right to serve in armed combat operations in a combat role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe reality that we have had to struggle with as a nation is that most people, particularly those of the older generation, have not particularly liked the thought of women participating in combat roles. Part of that was because they felt women would be unfairly disadvantaged through their inability to fight hand-to-hand with males. One could understand their reluctance. I would not like to allow the likes of my cousin Metiria Turei to go head-to-head with someone like R\u0101na Waitai in a physical confrontation. The outcome, one would predict, would be pretty clear and obvious. [Interruption] That is right; R\u0101na Waitai would go down quite quickly to my cousin from Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu. But that has been one of the issues that New Zealanders have struggled with. They have also struggled for years with the notion of whether it is right and proper to put women deliberately in the front line situation where they might be disembowelled, dismembered, ripped apart, and tortured, if captured, by their enemy. I guess New Zealand women have put their hands up and said they want to have that right, and have asked how anyone can deny someone his or her right to pick up a firearm, put on a uniform, and go to fight for his or her country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWhat concerns me is that in this debate there is an inadvertent\u2014I do not think it is deliberate\u2014demeaning of the combat support roles played by women. Traditionally in this nation, men and women have taken up roles in signals, intelligence, transport, and engineering. In fact, I recall a lady by the name of Corporal Paula Jepson from the Royal New Zealand Electrical and Mechanical Engineers. I think she was the first female fitter-welder in the New Zealand Army. She was an exceptionally competent tradesperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First applauds the fact that the bill allows women to participate legally, as of right, at all levels of the armed forces. I take my hat off to the staff I saw in the provincial reconstruction team in Bamian last week. A large number of women are deployed at all levels and in all roles in that contingent, whether on the front lineor patrolling and providing security services under the command of Major Paul King. When I arrived back, thankfully, I was pleased to see the large number of women who were working in the mess preparing food for all the troops as they came in from a hard day\u2019s work. Likewise, I saw women working in communications and medical services, as women always have done. They are working exceptionally well and are a credit to themselves, their families, and their nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThis bill is simply part of New Zealand\u2019s coming of age and is an acceptance of the reality that men and women demand and have the right to defend our nation, and to join the defence forces in any role. Anyone who wants to hang on to a last vestige of concern about the role of women in killing needs to understand the reality of modern war. Today it is possible for a person to sit in an office somewhere in Tampa in Florida and manipulate a joystick to send a Hellfire missile through the back window of a Toyota Land Cruiser and kill an al-Qaeda leader\u2014in the Yemen! That can be done without the person setting foot on the front line, so to speak. That task can equally be done by any human being, whether male or female. We should also remember that a lot of the dirty work that has to be done\u2014which some parties in the Chamber do not want to talk about\u2014concerns intelligence work, and that work is sometimes best done by a woman. That is the reality of life and the reality of security. Again, I remind members about Nancy Wake and how effective she was. When the bill receives the Royal assent and becomes law, I would love to hear that finally the Government will recognise the good work done by Nancy Wake in a combat role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf1c53bba3c04efd94fde13292a6e3d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf1c53bba3c04efd94fde13292a6e3d0\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I take great pleasure in speaking to the title of this bill\u2014that is, the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. I also acknowledge all the women and men who have served in our armed forces, and it seems very apt\u2014having just had Anzac Day\u2014that we are debating this bill tonight. Indeed, I acknowledge the Hon Harry Lapwood, who died; I attended his funeral yesterday, and he was acknowledged in the House today. He was a top bloke. He was an Army returned serviceman and will never be forgotten. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe title is very apt; the bill amends the Human Rights Act, which is outdated in this respect, and fixes up an anomaly, so the legislation can come up to speed with modern practice. It also allows for consistency with international conventions such as the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. At the time of the enactment of the Human Rights Act in 1993 it was the policy that women did not take part in active combat or duty. For the last 7 years, I understand, it has no longer been policy in the armed forces to discriminate against women. So we have to ask the question why it has taken 7 years to have this legislation before the House to correct the anomaly. Never mind; it is better late than never, as they say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge Nancy Wake as a New Zealander who served in the armed forces. She left New Zealand when she was 12, and is now 94, and has been acknowledged by virtually every other country, apart from New Zealand. The RSA has commended her with its highest honour\u2014but not New Zealand. She is 94; time is ticking. It is not too late, and I hope the Government will honour her in the Queen\u2019s Birthday honours in June. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge another wonderful New Zealander, Colonel Louisa Parkinson, who is the highest-ranked women serving in the Territorial Force. I know Louisa personally. She is an amazing woman\u2014inspirational, and a huge role model. With people like Louisa at the helm I am sure the numbers of women in the armed forces can only increase with time. This bill will set the stage for this to occur, although a lot of work has to be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI was also in the Territorial Force during my time as a medical student\u2014in the university medical unit. We trained the same as men, we took on the same duties, we had the same challenges, and we competed at every level. Certainly, my time in the Army, though it was short, made me acknowledge and respect people who work in the armed forces, who serve our country. They are courageous and brave, and we have to honour them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI would like to conclude that we support this bill. We are pleased to see it before Parliament. We are just concerned that it has taken so long to get here and we certainly hope the Government acknowledges Nancy Wake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcc6726f060346bd856a45307d179369\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcc6726f060346bd856a45307d179369\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill, which the National Party supports. The purpose of this bill is to repeal section 33 of the Human Rights Act 1993, so as to allow women in the armed forces to participate in active combat roles. This bill removes the last endorsement of gender discrimination that exists in employment matters relating to the armed forces. It can be safely said that women have unlimited choice when it comes to selecting a career. Repealing section 33 of the Human Rights Act will only reinforce the perception that there is nothing a woman cannot do, if given the opportunity. Given that 17 percent of all New Zealand defence force personnel are female and this number is growing year by year, and given that there are now more women than men in New Zealand\u2019s population, I personally look forward to the day when the commander of defence forces is addressed by her subordinates as \u201Cmadam\u201D rather than sir. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EHowever, if we look back for a moment to 1993 when the Human Rights Act was originally enacted, we see that New Zealand Defence Force policy prohibited women from serving in what are termed the teeth arms: in the infantry battalions, the armed regiment, the artillery batteries, or in the engineers as anything other than clerks in the quartermaster\u2019s store or in the unit\u2019s orderly room. Let us now fast-forward 7 years to 2000, when the Defence Force revised its rules regarding the prohibition on females serving in front-line services. In light of that policy shift, this legislative change is well overdue. This bill started as a member\u2019s bill but has been adopted as a Government bill. Although the bill is an attempt to keep abreast of modern times and ratifies a current situation, it has in effect been outdated by Defence Force policy for 7 years. By any yardstick that we care to use, the Defence Force has been far more progressive than this self-proclaimed progressive Government in ensuring that women have equal opportunities in a military career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EAlthough the National Party is supportive of this Government bill and its intentions, questions still need to be asked. For instance, if it took this Labour-led Government 7 years to address this human rights anomaly and subsequent employment anomalies, would we have to wait another 7 years under a Labour Government for New Zealand\u2019s most foreign-decorated female combat veteran, Nancy Wake, to be given the honours she so richly deserves for her World War II service, or, to use this bill\u2019s parlance, \u201Cactive combat service\u201D? Given that Ms Wake is 94 years old, I sincerely hope not. For that matter, would contemporary female combat veterans have to wait 7 years for recognition of the combat service that this legislation will allow them to undertake? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIt almost goes without saying that women in all manner of employment add value to all of their respective places of work, and that service with a combat-oriented unit or service in a combat zone will be no different in that regard. I mention that I would like to see the first female commander of defence forces or the first female Chief of Army, a success that I am confident will eventually follow this law change, although it must not be at the expense of existing or future standards. Standards should be based on competency, not on race, gender, religious belief, or any other factor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI would like to finish this call on a cautionary note. In this bill\u2019s first reading we were told that New Zealand has a reservation relating to women serving in armed combat. Although the word \u201Creservation\u201D has been used in a more legal context, it also has an implicit social context. We have only to look at the recent diplomatic tensions between the UK and Iran concerning British naval personnel, who included a female naval rating, to see some of the social and diplomatic problems that removal of the social reservation can generate. This is my caution to this Committee. Members should not think that this legislation merely adds to the raft of rights that we currently enjoy or that it merely corrects existing employment legislation. This bill has much wider implications than that, and this Government and any future Government should be aware of that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ce4b83e7ba184616bfcfd08f3e33f48a\u0022\u003EOffices of Parliament\u2014Address to Governor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f88f1f34e9fa4630a4f1c3431d98a83e\u0022\u003EOffices of Parliament\u2014Address to Governor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002236d6009ab83d4ab58c0b66dcc44acb51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236d6009ab83d4ab58c0b66dcc44acb51\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) on behalf of Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That a respectful Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor-General commending to His Excellency the alterations to the appropriations for the 2006/07 financial year in respect of Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and the appropriations and information for the 2007/08 financial year in respect of Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and Offices of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe need for this motion arises from the special arrangements that Parliament has for dealing with the budgets of Officers of Parliament under the Public Finance Act 1989. The officers concerned are the Auditor-General, the Ombudsmen, and the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. In terms of the Act, the Speaker is the responsible Minister for those officers, who have a special relationship with this House and carry out independent watching roles concerning the executive\u2019s activities. Section 26E of the Public Finance Act 1989 provides that before an appropriation in a vote administered by an Office of Parliament may be included in an appropriation bill for a financial year, information must be submitted to the House on estimates of expenses, capital expenditure, and other matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe Officers of Parliament Committee, on behalf of the House, has considered and made recommendations concerning proposed alterations to the 2006-07 appropriations and also the 2007-08 draft budgets for the Officers of Parliament. The committee\u2019s report was presented to the House on 2 April 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe House is now being asked to commend to the Governor-General by way of an Address the estimates concerned for each Officer of Parliament, with the request that those estimates be included as a vote in an appropriation bill. This procedure for the presentation of an Address to the Governor-General reflects the relationship of Officers of Parliament, as statutory persons separate from the executive, to the legislature. The Address anticipates the forthcoming Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002203c0f974978f467d9fb9c68fa2cbda03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203c0f974978f467d9fb9c68fa2cbda03\u0022\u003ENATHAN GUY (National):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking to Government motion No. 1, I think this is an opportune time for me to acknowledge very briefly the Bolger conference held here on the weekend. The reason I do so is that Mr Dick Denton, a resident and very long-standing citizen from the Horowhenua, was down here on Saturday and he had a major heart complication. He was resuscitated by the security staff at Parliament and is now recovering well in Wellington Hospital. Mr Denton is a well-known JP who does a lot of court work in Levin. We were recently speaking about the senior citizens card, and Mr Denton may qualify. I just wanted to put it on the record that Parliament wishes him all the best in his recovery. I also thank the security staff in Parliament for the very good work they did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis motion is all about the budgets of the Controller and Auditor-General, the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and the Office of the Ombudsmen. Parliament has been seeking candidates for the new position of the third ombudsman, and applications closed on 27 April. It is a very, very important position in Parliament, and we hope we have attracted some very good candidates, who will be shortlisted by the Officers of Parliament Committee very soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe Office of the Ombudsmen has come under a huge workload, and it has taken a while for it to churn through a lot of its work. I think everyone out there listening would agree that ombudsmen play a very, very important role in New Zealand and we need to ensure that we get the right candidate for the job in that office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWith the whole debate that is raging at the moment about the environment and climate change, the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment is doing a very, very good job as well. This position sits under the Officers of Parliament Committee. The central focus of this position is all around environmental sustainability. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment does not report to a Government Minister, but reports to Parliament through the Speaker, and also through the Officers of Parliament Committee. So these officers are separate from any political interference. The job of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment is to hold the Government to account over its environmental policies and actions. This position was set up in 1986. The commissioner, Dr Jan Wright, has been appointed for a 5-year term and she is doing a very good job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other important role we are speaking about today under debate on this motion is that of the Controller and Auditor-General. This position is also independent of the executive branch of the Government, and it has very important roles around its statutory office. People who are listening would be all too aware that Mr Kevin Brady did a great job around some of the spending by the Labour Party through the last election, and Labour has just repaid that $800,000-odd of taxpayers\u2019 money, which was not well spent. The job of the Auditor-General is very important because, once again, he sits away from political interference. He does a whole lot of work around audits\u2014the annual audits through the Public Audit Act 2001\u2014and gives very good advice to MPs and to Parliament. He has a very good, strong liaison role and he is seeking some more money to get the Audit Office up and running. National supports this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002202b0cbbb80b44bb8bcaa7ff6771e9e1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202b0cbbb80b44bb8bcaa7ff6771e9e1f\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Assistant Speaker, I know that you have already put the motion, which puts us in a bit of a difficult technical position, so I seek leave for Hone Harawira to be able to make a contribution to the debate on this motion and for the vote to be put immediately after he has concluded his contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e340ec04eb364234b985cefa3f2f94db\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that action. Is there any objection? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u002273b056d45a2347cea9cbf6f3ab90838b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273b056d45a2347cea9cbf6f3ab90838b\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Mr Hughes. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. The M\u0101ori Party is very interested in the Officers of Parliament Committee. This is not just because it is a committee meeting that we have not been invited to attend. We have looked over the operations of the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, the Office of the Ombudsmen, and the Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment to see whether they can carry out their duties independently of political interests. Of course they have wide-ranging powers of investigation, independent of the Government of the day, and report to Parliament through the Speaker of the House, rather than through a Minister of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIndeed, this is the model we have been looking at for the role of Treaty Commissioner\u2014someone independent of Government, charged with protecting and promoting the rights of the Treaty as the very foundation of our nation, to honour the vision of those who signed the Treaty, to promote the Treaty\u2019s commitment to partnership, to raise awareness and understanding of the Treaty, to review any decision made in respect of the Treaty by the Government, to consider new ideas and new responsibilities in the proper application of the Treaty in legislation, and to give value to the Treaty as our nation\u2019s most important constitutional manuscript, independently of the meanderings of fickle Governments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt was with those thoughts uppermost in mind that we noted some interesting points in the Budget report before the House. In Vote Audit, the biggie of course was a massive increase of $18 million for audit and assurance services\u2014an increase that even the committee called a \u201Csignificant variance\u201D. Apparently, the money is so that the Audit Office \u201Ccan forecast audit fees more accurately\u201D. Not being on the committee makes it a bit hard to understand what that means, but if the Audit Office is planning on working with Treasury to \u201Cdevelop an appropriate level of disclosure\u201D, then might I suggest that some basic disclosure of what exactly it wants another $18 million for might be a pretty good place to start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe amount of $18 million is a heck of a lot of money, particularly given that the M\u0101ori Party has just been told that $1.5 million is too much to spend on Treaty education and cultural competency lessons for immigration advisers. In terms of both Ombudsmen, when the proposal to appoint an additional Ombudsman came before the House last year, the M\u0101ori Party supported it because the Ombudsmen\u2019s office gets up to 6,000 complaints a year, and M\u0101ori see the independence of this office as helpful in holding boards of trustees, social service agencies, prisons, the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, and heaps of other Government agencies to account, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn fact, Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu academic Moana Jackson has even suggested that the Ombudsmen might also be a good start for M\u0101ori dealings with the police. I note that in the wake of the report of the Commission of Inquiry into Police Conduct, both Ron Mark and Nandor Tanczos also spoke in favour of an independent Police Complaints Authority\u2014a position well overdue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn respect of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, the M\u0101ori Party is keen to see the office building on the development of educators of progress towards sustainable development, factoring in the social and environmental costs and benefits of growth\u2014an area we have long supported, to help provide a measure of comprehensive, sustainable, and inclusive advancement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EOne recent example, of course, is the landfill at Hokio Beach. On the one hand the Horowhenua District Council says that it is happy to take waste from other regions, as a means of generating revenue, and on the other hand we have a long process of dissatisfaction about the landfill site from both Mua\u016Bpoko and Ng\u0101ti Pareraukawa, because of its proximity to the Ng\u0101tokowaru Marae, and other w\u0101hi tapu in the area, the impact caused by building a landfill on a highly porous base such as sand, the refusal to recognise the iwi kaitiakitanga, and the pollution already being caused by sewage discharge into local streams, affecting the marine environment and killing off local tuna stocks. The Resource Management Act requirements were undermined, consultation was flawed, alternative sites were never investigated, and there is major dissatisfaction from local iwi, local residents, environmentalists, and conservationists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAnother current example is in Cable Bay in the far north, where a developer wants to build an overbridge down on to a public beach, rather than use a footpath like everybody else. The developer already has a very poor public record in other areas in Tai Tokerau, yet the council seems happy to continue to deal with him. As in Horowhenua, major concerns have also been raised about the lack of consultation, and non-notifiable consent procedures being used in the face of petitions from locals opposing the development. Opposition to the overbridge is huge from local residents, conservationists, and local hap\u016B and iwi as well. In fact, local support for the overbridge is almost zero, yet still the council continues to support the proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThese are exactly the kinds of issues we would want the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment to give priority to, but given that the office received only a one-off payment of $50,000 for sustainable development projects, we doubt that it can do much to help. Because of that, we wonder whether the Government is serious about supporting the concept of genuine progress and helping Parliament to understand how to achieve environmental sustainability if it will not back the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment to do her job effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EFinally, we support the independent roles of these three offices of Parliament to be guardians, advocates, auditors, educators, and advisers to Parliament and the people. In that light, we support the motion. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to, and Address agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002247ced595115346f78993e011e37a41ae\u0022\u003EImmigration Advisers Licensing Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d955bb04b34f40e4a5b5cc70f67e4d72\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00229bb67baca198436a902309caa6b829d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bb67baca198436a902309caa6b829d4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill be now read a third time. A careful and robust process has brought us to this point today: the passing of the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill. It was back in May 2004 that Cabinet agreed in principle to the statutory regulation of immigration agents in New Zealand. The then Minister of Immigration, the Hon Paul Swain, announced that the days of shonky immigration advisers were numbered, and today we see that come to pass. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe call for the regulation of immigration advisers came first from migrants themselves\u2014migrants who had been ripped off, who had been told lies, who had been misled, who had had money and documents stolen, and who had put their trust in an agent and had then been let down, often when their application or appeal was not lodged, or when important information from the Immigration Service was not passed on to them. Some shonky agents were providing false and fraudulent documentation to the Immigration Service, often knowingly. Like many MPs in this House, I have constituents who have had such experiences with immigration advisers. The financial and emotional cost to them is huge. Many families have lost significant amounts of money, and, more important, they have been caused a great deal of stress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWorst of all, though, is that until now there has been little redress for those migrants. Something had to be done to ensure ongoing confidence in this industry. The liars, the crooks, and the thieves had to be weeded out and face the consequences of preying on innocent migrants. A large majority of immigration advisers are, of course, ethical and competent. A handful of crooks have been pulling down the entire reputation of the industry, putting it at risk, and undermining our immigration programme. Immigration advisers are valuable because they facilitate the entry of skilled migrants and others to New Zealand. Many of them supported the passing of this bill because they, too, want to ensure the integrity of this growing and vital industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe passing of this bill means that anyone who provides immigration advice\u2014with some exceptions, both onshore and offshore\u2014will have to hold a licence, and that those who do so without holding a licence will be prosecuted. Immigration officials will not accept applications from unlicensed people; it is as simple as that. The legislation will establish the Immigration Advisers Authority within the Department of Labour. A registrar, who will create a robust licensing system for immigration advisers, will head the authority. He or she will be charged with developing strict competency standards and a robust code of conduct that sets out the ethical standards required of immigration advisers. The legislation will also establish the Immigration Advisers Complaints and Disciplinary Tribunal, independent of the authority and administratively supported by the Ministry of Justice. The tribunal will consider all complaints about immigration advisers filed with it by the registrar and will have the disciplinary power to impose sanctions on immigration advisers. It has been estimated that some 1,000 people will need to be licensed under the new regulatory regime. That estimate is based on surveys of people who currently provide advice, excluding lawyers and other exempt persons, and on examining the number of adviser interactions with my department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee took a thorough and determined look at this bill and suggested a number of changes, which the Government supported. Those have led, I believe, to a stronger and broader bill being agreed to by the House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ESeveral additional issues arose from the Committee of the whole House stage\u2014the first being one regarding fees and levies. In general, Government regulation-making powers require that fees can be collected only for a service that is directly supplied. Funding for all other indirect services must be collected through a levy. When the bill was introduced, there was going to be an authority only. The nature of a tribunal, in terms of its functions and technical funding arrangements, had not been fully considered before the select committee proposed the split. My officials brought the fee/levy distinction to my attention after the select committee had considered the functions of the authority and the tribunal and reported back on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe bill clarifies that fees will apply to the application-processing service and to the services of being licensed, such as consideration of an application or renewal of an application to be licensed, and to the licensing functions of the authority. A levy is required for the authority to be able to provide other previously agreed functions, such as continuing professional development, and to cover the complaints and disciplinary processes, which are now to be handled by a separate, independent tribunal. The introduction of a levy as well as fees does not foresee any increase in the total amount to be paid by people seeking to be licensed; it merely better distinguishes between funding the cost of the services that they will receive directly, that is, by fees, and those that they may not receive directly but will benefit from, that is, by levies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe importance of the Treaty of Waitangi was also discussed during the Committee stage. A member proposed the establishment of a M\u0101ori Immigration Education Council to advise on matters of cultural education and to make recommendations binding on the Crown on all immigration education matters. Of course, the Government is sympathetic to the need for migrants to be informed and advised about Treaty of Waitangi issues, and we consult closely with the Government\u2019s M\u0101ori caucus on those matters. We recognise it is important that migrants to New Zealand are aware of the importance of the Treaty of Waitangi as the founding document of New Zealand. It is equally important that people advising and assisting new and potential migrants are conversant with the Treaty and aspects of tikanga. Indeed, the Department of Labour already provides migrants and its staff with information on the Treaty, for example. The bill will ensure that immigration advisers are as well informed as departmental staff on the Treaty and tikanga, through the knowledge element of the competency standards. As Minister, I will ensure that Treaty and tikanga matters are explicitly covered in those standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I take this opportunity to thank and acknowledge some of the key people and groups who have assisted in the passage of this legislation. Firstly, I acknowledge the two previous Ministers of Immigration: the Hon Lianne Dalziel, whose work pioneered the bill, and the Hon Paul Swain, who brought it through the Cabinet process. Secondly, I acknowledge the very hard work of the select committee. The committee conducted a robust and careful process of considering the submissions. It made a number of recommendations, which the Government supported. I want to give due recognition to the chair, the Hon Mark Gosche, who led that fine process. The process has meant there is support for the bill from all sides of the House, and that support is welcomed. Finally, I thank all those who took the time to make submissions on the bill, particularly the submitters from the immigration advisers industry. It was very important for us to design the legislation with the input and support of the industry, and we have appreciated the opportunity to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u00224db7e1ab94174a658e8e43cf40d6d73a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224db7e1ab94174a658e8e43cf40d6d73a\u0022\u003EPANSY WONG (National):\u003C/span\u003E National supports the passage of the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill but with reservations. I will highlight some of those outstanding issues that will need to be addressed in the future. First of all, I acknowledge the chairmanship of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee by the Hon Mark Gosche, who took the line of allowing a free flow of exchanges and was receptive to opposing views, which, I believe, has led to major improvements to this bill. The bill is now much better than when it was introduced to the House. I also acknowledge the work and support of the advisers and committee clerks who helped to improve on the original bill. The select committee members have contributed across the party line, which once again has made possible the improvements to the bill. That is the satisfying part of the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThere remain some concerns that I would like to raise. First of all, after the bill was reported back to the House, a late Supplementary Order Paper was introduced by the Minister to introduce the term \u201Clevy\u201D to the bill, on top of the fees that are contained in the original bill. The anxiety of the New Zealand Association for Migration and Investment\u2014which, by the way, fully supports the regulation of immigration advisers\u2014is understandable. The immigration officials have always insisted that around 1,000 immigration advisers are practising in New Zealand. The way the officials look at it is that the annual operating costs are around $1 million for 1,000 immigration advisers, so the registration fee will be around $1,000. But the association has always been adamant that the number of full-time advisers out there, at best, is half that. Lawyers are also exempt from this bill, so, as you can imagine, the association is quite concerned about the registration fee that has to be paid towards the running costs of the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThis late introduction of the term \u201Clevy\u201D has rung alarm bells. I introduced an amendment during the Committee stage because the Minister was adamant that the total fees or levy\u2014whatever we call it\u2014would not exceed $1,000 to $2,000. He rejected that amendment but instead, in the Committee stage, made the declaration that the levy and fees will be drastically less than the indication of the maximum level of $2,000. National will hold him to his word. After all, the Labour Government promised this bill in the year 2000. It is now some 7 years after that initial promise was made. In response to some of the gung-ho statements made by the Minister about cleaning up the industry, one could say that some of the horses have already bolted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe other issue that I want to raise is that of the scope of the bill. By and large, the select committee members have all expressed some reservations that immigration advisers who handle only student visas and permits are to be exempted from this bill. Recent research was conducted by Waikato University researcher Dr Elsie Ho. She came to the same conclusion as the Ministry of Education in 2004, which suggested that Chinese students face a large gap between their expectations of New Zealand and the reality. The ministry also indicated that, currently, one-third of international students come from China. Dr Ho pointed out that those students are the ones who are more likely to want to stay permanently. Therefore, one-third of our international students who come here are probably likely to progress to become a permanent resident in New Zealand at some time in the future. But they tend to be more unhappy because they came with unrealistic expectations. Dr Elsie Ho has urged immigration advisers in China to give better advice and perhaps better prepare those prospective students before they arrive in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E That is exactly why some select committee members expressed concern. Consultants who deal only with student visas and permits might fall through the gaps. We will continue to face this problem of students not being adequately supported by advisers or consultants who are not familiar with, and fully informed of, New Zealand qualifications and other requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThere are two other issues I want to raise. One is enforcement. I hear the Minister continue to say that there will be a robust complaint procedure and enforcement. But the experience we all have in this Parliament is that it is all too easy to pass legislation and that the enforcement of legislation is yet to be tested. Once again, I hope that the Immigration Service will take on board the fact that Parliament will continue to monitor its enforcement commitment. In my office alone, I have dealt with a lot of complainants who have raised issues with the Immigration Service, which tends to say that its hands are tied and it needs to refer them to the police, which, in turn, would advise them that there is nothing much they can do because it is a commercial transaction. We can understand the anxiety of people who seek advice from immigration advisers and consultants who are, in general, not that familiar with the legislation requirements, etc. So we will continue to monitor to make sure that Immigration New Zealand, under this new legislation, will tackle those enforcement issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe last issue I want to raise is that I think it is a tragedy that a trade restraint clause was introduced into this legislation. The Minister has shown no confidence in existing Immigration Service staff, because, in future, people handling visa applications, etc., will not be allowed to practise as immigration advisers for 12 months after they leave the Immigration Service. I think that is an insult to the existing employees of the department. It suggests either that their technical competence may not be up to scratch or that somehow the Minister is casting doubts on their integrity in that they may use their relationships with their ex-departmental staff for their own benefit. I think Ministers need to show more confidence in their staff. Of course, the restraint of trade clause is also targeted at the former Minister of Immigration, but I hasten to point out that John Delamere, who is a former immigration Minister, had an immigration practice for 2 years after he left Parliament. So what gaps is this legislation trying to plug? I remain puzzled by that. Although National supports this bill, we still have some reservations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd588c80a8e3420a8a04924e4fbfd1b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd588c80a8e3420a8a04924e4fbfd1b5\u0022\u003EHon MARK GOSCHE (Labour\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to be finally debating the third reading of this bill, as it has had a long gestation period. It is very much needed by many in our community as a protection against the things the Minister mentioned in his speech, which have happened to many migrants to New Zealand and have led to much discussion with the industry over a period of time by previous Ministers as to whether this should be dealt with by a voluntary regime or through legislation. It is clear\u2014it has the total support of Parliament, as I understand it\u2014that everybody in this place agrees that a law is required. That follows a similar pattern in other countries, such as Australia and Britain. It brings us largely into line with the regimes in other countries, although there are some differences around issues like how lawyers are treated. But I think it is important that we do look to other jurisdictions as we make our own legislation, and that has been helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI thank Pansy Wong and other members of the Transport and Industrial Relation Committee. I thank Pansy for her kind comments. I think the work that was undertaken by the committee was very productive. Most of us deal with immigration matters as electorate or list MPs on a fairly regular basis, and, sadly, we and our staff spend far too much of our time in our electorate offices dealing with the bad outcomes of shonky operators. That is not to say that all the people out there are like that, but there are too many to leave it to chance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003ECertainly, a great many people have missed out on being able to stay in New Zealand legitimately because of poor advice from both lawyers and immigration consultants, and many have gone to great expense and through great personal agony trying to get their immigration status established, largely because of the unregulated nature of the business. In fact, virtually anybody could and did set up as an immigration consultant up and down the country, so the ethical and competent services were brought down by those less ethical and less competent services. Thus the need for this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI think that the good thing about the bill we are now voting on is that it has been improved, and that, again, is down to the officials who serviced the committee, the people who sat on the committee, and the members of the public, with their various interests, who came before the committee and made submissions. I want to make a comment about some of the changes that were made. Certainly we all agreed that the time frame was too long, and we have brought that down. That is useful because it coincides with the actions going on under the Lawyers and Conveyancers Act, which will regulate lawyers who provide immigration advice. Again, in this speech before the House I want to send a signal to the legal profession that we are looking to it to pick up the challenge and to do that job properly. It is important that we can rely on the legal profession having proper standards, competencies, and disciplinary procedures, because it is not just the immigration consultants who are not lawyers who were causing strife out there. Many who were lawyers came to my attention. I suppose a future Parliament will look at this law in several years\u2019 time and look at what the lawyers have done to deserve their exemption from the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill, and it may have to look at it again if that challenge is not met properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThe law obviously describes who can be an immigration adviser, and it does that by, I suppose, saying who cannot be, because there are certain criteria that one has to meet. I think that is important, because we do not want to make it too tight but we do not want people with serious convictions and other things in their lives doing this work. As I said, we have exempted practising lawyers. We have also looked at the not-for-profit sector, which made considerable submissions on this bill. Again, I want to pay tribute to the people from the citizens advice bureaus, who made a very good case as to why they should be exempted. They are unique in that they do train all their volunteers and they usually have legal people to seek advice from. If in fact we had not exempted them, I think that a great service provided to the community by citizens advice bureaus could have gone missing altogether, and that could have created significant difficulties for other people, particularly MPs and their electorate offices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EIt was also important to exempt MPs and their staff, because we do a great deal of work of this nature. It is expected of us by our constituents, and in some parts of the country it probably accounts for 60 to 70 percent of electorate work. It is a service that the public should be able to expect from their MPs and their offices without fear or favour. So all of us on the select committee agreed that MPs\u2019 offices, citizens advice bureaus, and community law centres should be exempt. Obviously, we have made that provision for lawyers, as well, with a watching brief on that one for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EWe toyed with the idea of the student visas. I think we all felt some discomfort with that, but we do have a very competitive world out there in terms of offshore education and it probably would have severely affected that industry if we had moved on this. Again, I think it is one of those things that future Parliaments will have to keep an eye on as this law gets put into place and settles down, and we are able to look at whether that exemption is wrongly used\u2014in a way that we hope it will not be\u2014by having people who are exempt then moving into territory they should not be in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThe select committee looked at the Government administration, if you like, of this and made sensible changes so that there is definitely a clear distinction about where the various roles are played out. That took care of the fears that the part of the Department of Labour that deals with immigration would be, I suppose, the watchdog over the industry. I think all of us on the select committee felt that that change about the location of the Government part of it was very necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI think the standards, the code, and the behaviour\u2014all of those things yet to be worked out\u2014are things that we all look forward to in the future. We all look forward to a greater standard of behaviour, competency, and honesty in an industry that has had a chequered history to date\u2014that has, I suppose, had such a chequered history that this Parliament feels unanimously that it needs to pass a law of this nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EI am very pleased, as chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and as somebody who has a great deal to do with immigration at a local electorate level, that we are finally moving to put into place proper standards. I think all members of Parliament would support that sentiment because of their own personal experiences. We all have tales to tell about the bad cases, but I suppose it is like everything: we forget to also focus on some of the positives that happen out there. There are a great many people who work in the field of immigration whom we place faith in, in terms of heading those organisations. They will make sure that the standards are kept. Some of them wanted us to be even harder, if you like, than we perhaps have been in this law. Certainly those lawyers who do not operate as lawyers but as immigration consultants and who also have law degrees did want the coverage\u2014as the Australians have\u2014of lawyers under this regime. It is the one question mark that still hangs over it from my perspective. But it is a question that will be answered over time, and it is an opportunity for the legal profession to actually do its own housekeeping and put its own standards in place. We look forward to that happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EThere are a number of things in the bill around enforcement and the ability to look at records, and all of those things will have to be tested over the next few years to see that we have got it right, but I am pretty sure that we have this bill in very good shape. I reiterate the thanks of those of us who sat on the select committee to the officials who advised us, my thanks to the other members of the committee, and thanks to the members of the public who made very good and sound submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022263be082-dd01-4ef1-9c19-d546d0174793\u0022\u003EFinally, to answer Pansy Wong\u2019s point about the restraint of trade, I say that this was something that the ethnic community representatives particularly noted. They were worried about former immigration staff advertising the fact that they were former immigration staff in order to give the impression that they had an advantage. That is one of the main reasons why we listened to that public submission and put that restraint of trade in. Again, it is up to a future Parliament to see whether that is a law that stays there forever or whether there might be a minor amendment at some time. I commend this bill to the House. It is long overdue for many people, but we got there in the end and that is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00226196da86b5d84a15871a35538b123e02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226196da86b5d84a15871a35538b123e02\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E In moving the third reading motion of the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill, the Minister the Hon David Cunliffe argued that the bill was needed because there are a whole lot of crooks and cheats out there who will do people for their dollar if they are not regulated. To be fair about this, I must ask where the greatest scam has been in the last couple of years in the immigration area. Where has the greatest abuse of vulnerable potential migrants been in the last couple of years? Has it been from an immigration adviser out there in the public? If members of this Parliament reflect back on the last couple of years, I think most would have to acknowledge that the greatest scam and the greatest abuse of vulnerable potential migrants has been carried out by a member of this very Parliament\u2014someone whom this bill is exempting from any regulation. Of course, I refer to none other than the former Labour Minister, the honourable Taito Phillip Field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIt is fascinating\u2014it is a paradox\u2014that in moving this third reading motion the Minister David Cunliffe, with such an innocent voice, spoke of crooks and cheats out there, not seeming to realise the paradox in relation to one of his own former ministerial colleagues\u2014I do not want to be unfair; it has not been proven that he was crooked, but certainly there is no question he abused vulnerable potential migrants. There is no question about that. One only has to read the Ingram report to see that. When we look at that particular case, it is interesting to see the way the honourable Taito Phillip Field exploited potential migrants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EA complainant claimed to me that in order to get the assistance of Taito Phillip Field as a Labour member of Parliament they had to pay serious cash. When I say \u201Cserious cash\u201D, I mean that this particular person claimed to have paid $2,000 in order to get the assistance of Taito Phillip Field. What is interesting about that is also what, on balance, I think, makes us accept that there probably is a need for this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI talked to the person who complained to me, who had paid the cash\u2014and there is no question that the cash was paid. The complainant told me of having to front up with $2,000 in cash in order to have Taito Phillip Field\u2019s help with an immigration matter concerning a Thai overstayer\u2014and it was not the Thai tiler; it was another one. What is interesting about that is that the cash was not paid to Taito Phillip Field directly. The complainant, when asked to whom it was paid, claimed it was a family friend. I said: \u201CWell, hang on, could this person have been a crooked immigration adviser?\u201D. I have to say that the person complaining laughed and said: \u201CNo, no, it\u2019s common knowledge this person is not an immigration adviser. They are a go-between.\u201D. Now, I do not know\u2014the police will sort that matter out, I trust. But it is possible that the person to whom the cash was paid was in fact a shonky operator abusing potential migrants, collecting a couple of thousand dollars in cash along the way simply to pass people on to a member of Parliament who maybe, if we put the most generous complexion on it, was a bit na\u00EFve about certain things going on around him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EIt is that\u2014the risk that that person was simply a shonky immigration adviser\u2014that, on balance, makes us accept the need for this legislation. It means more regulation, and right at the moment there is no question that in the last 7 years under this Labour-led Government there has been significant regulatory creep. Right now there is no question that productivity in our economy is declining significantly. The latest figures show productivity down to 0.4 percent growth a year, which is disastrous for New Zealand\u2019s future, and analysts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d8e3a74adbf48b097b20e9974e30917\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Positive or negative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022815ac2e4bafb44e98056e6bc24f244aa\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is still positive slightly, but it is down from 2 percent through the decade of the 1990s when Labour claimed that failed policies were in place. Productivity was growing very well in those days. Since Labour has been in office the average productivity growth has gone down by two-thirds to 0.7 on average, and it is now down to almost zero. Analysts are suggesting that one of the reasons for this, among a range of reasons, is excessive regulation. In fact, there was a lecture on this very issue at Treasury this very day\u2014which this Government\u2019s own department, Treasury, sponsored. I did not see any Labour members of Parliament there but they would have learnt a bit if they had been there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAnalysts are starting to say that regulatory creep is a major problem, and this legislation is more regulation. What we did not see was a decent cost-benefit analysis. As the Government moves to regulate this sector of the economy, where was the cost-benefit analysis? I think we should insist in the future that greater focus goes on cost-benefit analysis as we bring in greater regulation through this Parliament. The amount of legislation and regulation has grown exponentially in recent years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ESo National has reservations about this bill. We have supported it because, as I say, on balance National believes that it makes sense to have some framework to register immigration advisers, and certainly the industry itself was supportive, although, notably, the industry, when making submissions on the bill, did not know that this Labour Government intended, by Order in Council, to impose a levy, which is just another name for a tax, on the industry. That is typical of this Labour Government. It puts legislation in front of the select committee, and then, at the last minute, when people no longer have a chance to make submissions, it changes it. Undoubtedly there would have been further submissions had the industry known that the Government retained to itself the power to impose a levy the Government sees fit. I am sure that will make the industry fairly concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to make this point. My good colleague Pansy Wong has already raised the issue of the constraint on trade on those who worked in the ministry or had been Ministers in the past. What to us is crazy about that is if a person has worked in the ministry he or she clearly has a knowledge, and to prevent people from being able to use their expertise, skills, and training because they might be more effective as immigration advisers than someone else, is just plain dopey. People should be able to use their skills and knowledge, and there is nothing wrong with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI think it is most unfortunate that the Labour Government did not listen to my good colleagues on the select committee, Pansy Wong and David Bennett, and remove from the legislation that constraint on trade. It is an unnecessary regulation that, again, will limit productivity. People with greater skills and knowledge can be more productive, and that is an example of regulation that reduces productivity. I hear the Minister interjecting. Let me in my last moment say this to the Minister. OK, he wants more transparency with immigration consultants. Let us get some transparency out of his department. How many scams were there in the last 12 months in his department? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ELast year there were 116 investigations of people in his department. How many of them found crooked operators? Let us have that Minister tell Parliament. He should take another call. He should advise one of his colleagues who is taking a call to tell us how come a whole bunch of Chinese immigrants had their applications approved within 1 day when the average time for Chinese business applicants was 10 months. How come the investigation has been going on for 7 months and this Minister claims he has had no report yet? For 7 months there has been an investigation going on into that. How come? Why does that Minister not apply the same transparency to the internal workings of the Immigration Service that he expects from external immigration advisers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI think it is time for greater transparency within the department instead of this Minister trying to hide everything that is going on in his department. He tries to block official information requests. He is very evasive of questions in this Parliament. We want to see a bit more transparency out of his department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac06bb8e375742908f83a40d79384eca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac06bb8e375742908f83a40d79384eca\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou te Whare. It is a rare occurrence when one can look through a Government website and find policy that reflects and honours our nation\u2019s constitutional document, the Treaty of Waitangi. It is hard to believe, but in preparing for the third reading debate on the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill I happened upon the Immigration New Zealand website where I found the following information: \u201CThe Treaty is recognised as the first immigration agreement between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 (European settlers). \u2026 The Treaty was important, firstly, to control the thousands of future emigrants to Aotearoa New Zealand, and secondly, to protect the rights of M\u0101ori people. The benefits to both parties were clear\u2014settlement rights for P\u0101keh\u0101 and the natural right of the t\u0101ngata whenua (the people of the land) would be respected and affirmed. \u2026 Immigration New Zealand recognises that the Treaty of Waitangi is the \u0060founding document of our nation\u2019. This means that Immigration New Zealand will consult with M\u0101ori on immigration matters.\u201D\u2014not the M\u0101ori inside Government but real M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI doubt that members of the M\u0101ori Party could have said it better themselves. I recap. The Treaty is recognised as the first immigration agreement. The Treaty is the founding document of our nation. The Treaty is important to control the thousands of future immigrants to Aotearoa and to protect the rights of M\u0101ori, and Immigration New Zealand will consult with M\u0101ori on immigration matters. I put it to the House that if we are truly to enhance this country\u2019s reputation as a migrant destination, then it is the Treaty of Waitangi that will help to get us there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EDuring the first reading debate on this bill in December 2005, Dr Sharples called the Treaty the first charter for migrants emigrating to Aotearoa. He described the Treaty as a way to unite people, a concept that M\u0101ori fully endorsed in 1840 but which has since been overlooked, neglected, downgraded, and marginalised by successive Governments, including this current Labour Government. I need to point out here, without any malice whatsoever, that even Labour\u2019s own M\u0101ori MPs, Parekura Horomia, Nanaia Mahuta, Mita Ririnui, Mahara Okeroa, Dover Samuels, Shane Jones, Jill Pettis, and Moana Mackey have supported the deletion of the Treaty principles from legislation, the removal of the Treaty from the school curriculum, the cancellation of manaaki tauira, and the instructions to the district health boards to tread softly as far as the Treaty clauses go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EDuring the second reading debate last year my colleague Te Ururoa Flavell quoted Dr Ranginui Walker, who described the preamble to the Treaty as the original charter for immigration\u2014a charter that allowed immigration to Aotearoa from Australia and the UK, but requires consultation with M\u0101ori as Treaty partner for any variation. Dr Walker said the Government had ignored the notion of partnership by unilaterally deciding who can enter Aotearoa without consultation with M\u0101ori. On the Immigration New Zealand website there is specific guidance to help all visitors to our shores, and I quote: \u201Cto realise the significance of the Treaty within every aspect of life in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u201D Such fine words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party endorsed those statements from Immigration New Zealand and introduced Supplementary Order Papers to give weight to those statements. We proposed a way for M\u0101ori to be involved in formulating policy in order, in fact, to fulfil the agency\u2019s own intentions to \u201Cconsult with M\u0101ori on immigration matters.\u201D We even proposed a cultural education programme, which included Te Tiriti o Waitangi, tikanga, and te reo M\u0101ori for immigration advisers. This bill is supposed to determine what constitutes immigration advice, the licensing process, and who can and cannot be licensed. It was our considered view that the cultural education programme we were proposing would have helped immigration advisers ensure that migrants and visitors could indeed realise the significance of the Treaty within every aspect of life here in Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAt another level, it occurs to me that if we are to honour the spirit of partnership in the Treaty, then the Government must also recognise the need to involve M\u0101ori in immigration policy and practice\u2014and not just through meaningless words on a website. For a relationship to work, both parties must be heard, yet since the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi M\u0101ori have had no input into developing immigration policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe also suggested setting up a M\u0101ori immigration education council to help guide the Crown in immigration matters, as a way of acknowledging M\u0101ori as partners in the Treaty\u2014our nation\u2019s original immigration document. The council would enable M\u0101ori to work with the Crown in setting immigration policy and advice, and strategic directions through membership on the Immigration Advisers Authority and the Immigration Advisers Complaints and Disciplinary Tribunal, as proposed under this bill. The council would also examine all issues related to the impact of immigration on M\u0101ori and report back on these to iwi, the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, the Minister of Justice, and the Minister of Immigration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThose are all good ideas, one would think, but\u2014hello; what was the Government\u2019s response? Rational debate? Thoughtful consideration? Reasoned argument? Hell, no! The Government pulled the old Standing Order 319 trick, putting a financial veto on our proposals. It said: \u201CNo money, honey! No debate, no argument, no consideration. Just no way, M\u0101ori boy! We may have an $11 billion surplus and you might have a good idea, but we ain\u2019t going to spend any of our money on it.\u201D I hear the Hon David Cunliffe talking about a M\u0101ori immigration council, and that would be a good idea. It is something the M\u0101ori Party proposed quite early on, even though the Government chose not to support the Supplementary Order Paper. If the intention is to go through with that, we would be supportive of that notion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe key part to the changes introduced through this bill is setting quality standards for all immigration advisers, which raises the question, of course, about what exactly defines quality and how one measures it, because, of course, the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s proposals were designed specifically to increase the quality of immigration advisers\u2019 knowledge and understanding of the Treaty, tikanga M\u0101ori, and te reo M\u0101ori\u2014qualities that should be paramount in those who would guide and advise migrants, refugees, and visitors to our fair shores. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe were not surprised that submitters also held very strong views about quality standards. The National Council of Women said that competency standards were crucial to improving the quality of advice and that a robust external consultation process was important to help develop such standards. We also agreed with the submission from Tuariki Delamere calling for a system to determine lawyers\u2019 competency to act as immigration advisers. In fact, this whole area of guidance on standards and cultural competency was something we felt that a Treaty commissioner could provide guidance on, helping to define and measure the capability of immigration advisers to carry out their duties consistent with the guidelines on their website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe agree with the need for quality standards, but we call for that quality to be determined by Treaty principles in partnership and not just by affordability. We appreciate the opportunity to continue to raise the debate around the Treaty of Waitangi and immigration in the 21st century. The Treaty of Waitangi is indeed the founding document of our nation, and, for the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill to have any meaning, it must recognise in every aspect the significance of the Treaty and all facets of its development and implementation. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f66635d830854733abfdddc190d93458\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f66635d830854733abfdddc190d93458\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It is with pleasure that I speak on the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill. I would like to congratulate members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, especially our chair, Mark Gosche, on the leadership he provided on the bill. I thank the officials who helped us with this legislation, and also all those who submitted on it. This legislation has arisen from a genuine need in the community. Anybody who made a submission on the bill was in favour of something happening. Everyone saw that there are some major holes in the way we deal with immigration in New Zealand, and especially in the way we deal with the advisory aspects of the regulation of those who are involved in promoting immigration to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt is unfortunate that the industry could not regulate itself. This is a case where self-regulation was not possible. In many other areas, such as in the legal and accounting professions, or even in the motor vehicle dealers industry, we have seen instances of self-regulation. We see formulae of industry regulation that are much more pronounced in the sense that they are being done by industries in their own vein. But in this case the Government had to stand up and take the lead. It needed to do that in the sense that there was no other body that could engage in the necessary regulation to provide the comfort that people need as they come to New Zealand as migrants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ELooking at this legislation, we see some deficiencies that have come about, especially during the Committee stage. The biggest of those deficiencies was the introduction of a levy by this Government at the last minute\u2014a levy that was never discussed at the select committee; a levy that this Government introduced only because it knew that the structure being promoted might not work in the final form it was looking for. We discussed the idea of fees, based on a maximum fee of about $2,000, which was considered to be at the high end of what the market could afford to regulate the advice in the industry. That fee maximum was something that Pansy Wong, one of our members on the select committee, tried to seek during the debate in the Committee of the whole House. This Government denied that amendment to the bill, and therefore showed its true intention of having the fee, plus a levy, exceed the $2,000 that the officials had indicated was the maximum the industry could handle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhy else would one include a levy when there was a fee in the system that had been promoted by the officials? There can be only one reason: the Government decided it wanted to raise more money. It is another tax. It is another way the Government can bring money into its coffers. It is another way it can store up money for an election that it knows it will lose. The only way it knows it can go into the election is by spending people\u2019s money that it does not actually have. That is what this Labour Government is about. It is just another tax. It is just another opportunity to put the hard boot into those New Zealanders who have their own businesses and who go out there to try to provide advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENo, this Government would not let small businesses carry on. It thought it would put another levy on them, and that is what we are seeing in this legislation. [Interruption] Now we hear the hollers from the Labour Party members as they react to the possibility of another levy being put on. Why are they so defensive? They know they were wrong in doing this. If they were right, then they should have done it all the way through the select committee process, letting people submit on it and understand what the Government is trying to do. But, no, the Government brought it in at the last minute, trying to put it under the cover of the Committee of the whole House. That is typical of a Labour Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b14da36618784bb2a3378a64f0417d7e\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The cover of a democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd37c818a0204dbcb71d7ddd96a94a75\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is the failure of democracy that we have seen from this Parliament and this Government\u2014from this Labour Party. I think our spokesperson on immigration, Lockwood Smith, summed it up pretty well when he said that there has been only one case in the public eye where this bill would have applied. That case is the case of a Labour member of Parliament, a case that has been debated in this House day after day. It is the case of one individual who has been let down by his own party, as well, so he has gone out to form his own party\u2014a party that will take South Auckland and that will consign the Labour Party to being the third biggest party in this House after the next election. That is the reality of what is happening, and those members opposite do not have anything they can do about it, apart from putting on another levy. A levy is all they can do. Another levy is their way of dealing with issues such as this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b73bfef7899c4b9395056ec953776b7c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Just before the break we were talking about the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill and one of the big things there was the introduction of a levy that had not been anticipated at any stage during the select committee deliberation. The Government put it in at the last minute during the Committee stage of the discussion of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe also talked about how there is no situation in which self-regulation is available in this case, as the industry is not organised to the extent that we could have self-regulation as an option. So the Government has had to come forward with the regulatory body it has provided in this case. A few exemptions have been given, notably to lawyers, citizens advice bureaus, and community law centres, but we believe that another couple of groups should also have been given exemptions. One of them would have been, for example, the migrant resource centres. In Hamilton we have a large migrant resource centre that does a lot of work on immigration inquiries. Those centres are not exempt; they have to go through that process of seeking an exemption. That was something we brought up with the Labour members of the select committee, because we felt that the process was unfair for organisations like that. They generally carry out the role of citizens advice bureaus, yet they were given a different regime to operate under. We felt that it was unfair to put organisations like that through a more formal process. They could easily have been made exempt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe also see that some specific community groups are not exempt. We had a submission from the Indian community in Auckland. It was from a group that gives a lot of immigration advice to members of its community who want to settle in New Zealand. That group too could have been given an exemption in this legislation. The legislation does have a few problems, in the sense that it could have covered a lot more situations where people do provide immigration advice and a genuine level of service that does not require any profit or income-generating motive\u2014the advice is given simply on the basis of its community involvement and as a community organisation. In those cases, there could have been the ability to have far greater exemptions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOverall, though, this legislation was well received by members of the committee. We were very disappointed in the way that this Government has brought about a levy at the last minute when it did not need to do so, and it also is part of the indication of this Government\u2019s failure to debate the immigration issue as a total issue. We hear there is talk of immigration reforms, and they seem to be quite procedural. I think that members will see them coming up in further reforms of immigration legislation when we get to the real heart of what we need to sort out\u2014that is why and how, and how many people we let into New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThose questions have not been addressed by this Government. It has stayed away from the hard questions. It has not had a vision of New Zealand being open and inclusive and letting in as many people as is physically possible\u2014which would actually contribute to New Zealand through skills, energy, and the passion to build a stronger country. The Government has not taken up a vision of New Zealand in the future; it has looked just at procedural matters. That is something where New Zealand has missed the boat in comparison with our competitors in the Western World. It has been a great disappointment to see that this Government has concentrated only on procedural matters in immigration and not on the wider picture when it had the opportunity to canvass fully through this bill and other legislation that will be coming up this year in relation to immigration. Overall, this bill is necessary, but it is also disappointing to see the way in which this Government has approached the issue and its failure to really grasp the bigger issues that need to be addressed in the immigration field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u00228db0edba5fe64bd2a4f0ea35673ee70f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228db0edba5fe64bd2a4f0ea35673ee70f\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make a reasonably short call on this legislation. The Green Party is supporting this Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill, and we have done so from the very beginning when my colleague Keith Locke gave a first reading speech about it. We have followed the bill reasonably closely through the select committee process. We have always been very keen to see greater transparency for, and control over, those who provide advice to immigrants. We get a lot of those kinds of cases coming to the Green Party\u2014to me, when I was the immigration spokesperson in my first term of Parliament, and to Keith Locke now, and during his first term of Parliament, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EPeople come to the Green Party because they see us as being the only people interested in the human rights aspect of their issues. We are seen as being the only people who will take seriously the fact that they have been treated so badly\u2014largely by the Immigration Service itself, but increasingly by those who are providing them with advice and charging them considerable amounts of money to do so. Some of the cases are very well-known cases to do with refugees and asylum seekers, but heaps of people who come to us have enormous difficulty in dealing with the Immigration Service and with understanding the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EPart of the reason that we need immigration advisers is that they can give immigrants the kind of advice, and process advice, that they simply do not get from the Immigration Service, because it tends to be very closed about the information it gives out and the kinds of criteria it makes assessments on. Because in some ways the Immigration Service acts as the enforcement agency for immigration issues as well, people are frightened to get information from it. So it is really important that people have an independent person they can go to for advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EBut when those advisers are then making a profit out of those immigrants\u2019 real needs and very insecure situations, they need also to be severely controlled in order to make sure that good advice is given and that they do not misuse the process. There have been cases where people have made serious claims against immigration advisers, because those advisers have seriously misused the process and have ripped people off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe are talking about people who come to this country because they want to be part of the New Zealand community. They have looked at going to other countries, but they have decided that New Zealand is the place for them. They love it here, their children are here, and their schooling is here. They feel that there are huge opportunities for them here. They have made enormous sacrifices to come all the way around the globe to New Zealand. They deserve respectful treatment by New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESometimes migrants do not get that respectful treatment; that is really obvious. They do not get it either socially\u2014with the level of abuse that is often directed at immigrants, and with the inability of New Zealanders sometimes to deal with language barriers and to be respectful of the fact that not everyone speaks English as perfectly as some New Zealanders might like to think they do\u2014or from State agencies and private companies that are involved in giving them advice, as well. These people deserve respect from us for their commitment to our country and, for just being human beings, they deserve to be treated justly and with human rights. So we are very pleased to see at least some attempt is being made in this legislation to protect new immigrants who are looking for that advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESome really sad stories have come to me. I had one case where a family was here that had had some issues with its visas and family members had overstayed. The main applicant was the husband of the family, and there were two children at high school, doing very well. Instead of the Immigration Service and enforcement agencies dealing with the husband, who was the main applicant, they went to the house just before school finished one day and arrested the wife. They held her in custody. She was held in the women\u2019s prison here in Wellington. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe purpose for holding the wife, even though she was not the applicant, was that the Immigration Service and enforcement agencies believed that if they held the wife, then the rest of the family would not go underground, but rather they would try to get her out because she was so vulnerable. Her language skills were OK, but only just. She had religious issues around the food she ate that were not respected by the prison service. She was stripped and treated very badly while she was in prison, and she was in prison for a week before the authorities finally decided and arranged to deport her and her family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe treatment of this family at the hands of the State and some of the people who were giving them advice was extremely poor. The family had to rely on a very good lawyer, who worked very, very hard with us and with others to try to remedy their situation. It was extremely difficult for the family, and they were deported. Thankfully, in the end they were given an opportunity to return to New Zealand after they had paid their deportation fees and their air tickets, and they have been here ever since. The children are again at school. One has gone to Otago University and is doing very well there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis family are committed to this country, and their treatment at the hands of the State agencies and some others involved in their case has been terrible. It is only due to the lawyer who worked for them and the community that supported them that they have been able to make some gains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThat is just one example of how vulnerable immigrants are when they come to this country and how difficult it is for them to get good advice and to manage the bureaucracy. When they are then subject to immigration advisers who are setting out to be exploitative and to reap the profits without providing the service, really we have a whole sector of the New Zealand community\u2014and I believe it is the New Zealand community\u2014that is being abused and exploited. That abuse should stop; it needs to stop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003ESo I am pleased about the bill. The Greens will be voting for it. No doubt there are some issues and some things will be missed in it\u2014not all legislation is perfect\u2014but none the less, it provides some level of protection to what is becoming one of the most vulnerable sectors of the New Zealand community, and we are pleased to see that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002254792c3ac1bb42b39c0fbdf970910095\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254792c3ac1bb42b39c0fbdf970910095\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a real honour to be able to rise to speak in support of the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill for its third reading. I would also like to thank the member who has just resumed her seat, Metiria Turei, for giving such a clear indication of the Green Party\u2019s support for this bill, as well, by giving real-life examples of some of the issues that she has dealt with in her role as a member of Parliament and by really informing the debate in this third reading on this particular issue. In contrast, I have to say to the National Party speakers on this bill that it has been really quite difficult to work out from the contents of their debate here at this third reading, whether they support the bill or whether they are, in fact, opposing the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIn his speech before the dinner break, Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith talked about regulatory creep. Now, he may well be a regulatory creep, but I am not. I think his speech displayed just how uncomfortable the National Party is in dealing with introducing standards into our legislation. What this bill does is introduce standards for those people who are among some of the most vulnerable in our society\u2014those people immigrating from their own countries and who wish to have appropriate, professional advice. Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith is feeling uncomfortable about licensing immigration advisers because he sees that as being regulatory creep. I think that tells us all that the National Party still believes that the market fixes everything. That, fundamentally, remains its belief. Its members demonstrated that in their debate on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIn the select committee process, they had to come face to face with the fact that the market does not fix issues such as this. They should have learnt that during the 1990s. All of the failed \u201Clet\u2019s just be a lazy Government, sit on our hands, and leave it to the market\u201D approaches absolutely failed. If members talk to any employer in this country they will find out about the skills shortage that they now face because of that \u201Csit on the hands\u201D approach of the National Government in the 1990s. No, the market does not fix these issues. This bill is another clear example of exactly why there must be a hands-on Government approach taken to these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWe are dealing with very vulnerable people. I want to remind the House here at this third reading that the people who rely on immigration advisers for their advice come from countries where they cannot possibly understand how we do things here in this country when it comes to our immigration laws. They are absolutely at the mercy of those from whom they seek their immigration advice. That fact is absolutely important as they make that life-changing decision to immigrate to New Zealand. It is a life-changing decision, because they are uprooting family, they are leaving family behind, and they are going from a situation or a country where they understand the systems well and coming to join our society here in New Zealand which they may not understand so well. They are very vulnerable when they are making this life-changing decision. Often the advice they get from immigration advisers is the first contact for new immigrants to New Zealand. This bill ensures that there will be some professionalism taken with regard to that advice. It is important for the reputation of this country because, as I said, often the first contact that these new citizens\u2014these immigrants\u2014will have is through the immigration adviser. They should expect a professional service and competency, and they should expect that it will reflect the type of country that they are choosing to immigrate to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI think this bill is very significant, because it is about enhancing New Zealand\u2019s reputation overseas and it is about\u2014yes\u2014creating standards. I know that some in this House find the idea that it is government\u2019s role to create standards a little daunting. This Labour Government does not find that at all daunting. We take up that challenge because we know just how important it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EBecause some debates in the third reading of this legislation have been less than clear about what the bill is about, I want to remind those who are listening what this bill is seeking to do and what it will deliver. The bill creates a new regulatory framework. Yes, it is regulation\u2014the regulation of individuals providing immigration advice both onshore and offshore. It was important that we covered both of those aspects because people, pending their decision to immigrate to New Zealand, seek advice both from onshore and from offshore consultants in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThis bill is critical to managing the growing immigration advisers industry. While many immigration advisers do provide good services, there have been insufficient regulatory constraints or market incentives to prevent some advisers from providing unethical or incompetent services. This legislation will bring New Zealand into line with countries such as Australia and Britain. So we are actually upholding our international obligations in this regard as well by introducing the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EFurther, by raising the standard of immigration advice, this bill will promote and protect the interests of migrants and potential migrants who receive immigration advice, and it will enhance the reputation of New Zealand as a migration destination, because we want to keep that reputation up as high as possible. People who are fortunate enough to travel overseas will know that New Zealand\u2019s reputation is extremely high on the world stage. That is because of the very principled approach it has taken on many foreign affairs issues. Continuing to improve our professionalism on immigration advice will enhance it even further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThis Labour-led Government understands that a sustainable, well-managed, balanced immigration programme is one of the keys to New Zealand\u2019s economic transformation, and this bill is part of that understanding. We know that for the people whom we, as members of Parliament, see in our electorate offices and in our constituency offices, this bill is coming not a moment too soon. I have certainly had contact personally myself, as a member of Parliament, with people who have had the wrong advice on their chances of gaining residency and citizenship in this country. They have come to this country in good faith. They have found out many thousands of dollars later and many months\u2014or many years, in fact\u2014later that the advice they were originally given was incorrect advice, and that they did not have the qualifications or meet the criteria that would enable them to spend a long period of time in New Zealand. They have therefore made some very critical decisions in their lives about coming away from their country of origin and investing here in New Zealand\u2014perhaps buying property, becoming owners of businesses, or starting up new companies\u2014only to find that the original advice was not, in fact, correct, and they now need to make some different decisions and return to their country of origin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI remind the House how important the sorts of decisions are that people are making and why, therefore, we need a professional system in place to ensure the competency of the advice that people are given. Certainly, I can recall about 2 months ago a woman from the Cambridge area who told me exactly that story of having been given the wrong advice from an immigration adviser who assured her that if she did certain things, she would absolutely become resident in New Zealand, when that was quite incorrect information. She came here in good faith. She put her money into setting up her own catering business, only to find that the advice she was given was incorrect. She now has to fold up that business opportunity that she started up. When I informed her of this bill\u2019s passage, she said to me: \u201CI wish this had been in place when I first made my inquiries about New Zealand. I have spent $10,000 trying to make my New Zealand dream come true. I hope this won\u2019t happen to others in the future. Good on you.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EGood on the Labour-led Government for bringing this bill into place. That woman knows that other people are coming along in the same situation, and that they will be much better placed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c54a8e6d4f744a67b327c08b74d7a6bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c54a8e6d4f744a67b327c08b74d7a6bc\u0022\u003EDIANNE YATES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is with pleasure that I rise to speak on the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill. The previous speaker has just pointed out that this bill is in response to a perceived and a very real need for people who are going to be immigration advisers to have some standards, and this bill sets the standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EIt is very important for people who are coming to this country that they are not ripped off or disillusioned by their experience of dealing with immigration advisers, as they have been in the past. We have just heard the story of one person who was giving wrong advice. Many of us as MPs have heard from many people who have been given bad advice and who have had very, very bad experiences. I know of a case where someone was getting advice and the adviser was holding the person\u2019s passport. I ended up by saying to the person that the adviser was not allowed to do that and the person should go back and demand the passport. I am sure many MPs in the past have come across many instances where people have been dealt with badly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EIt used to be that an immigration adviser was a failed MP, or a failed lawyer, or a deregistered lawyer. All sorts of people decided that anyone could be an immigration adviser\u2014it was a good thing to do, one just gave advice, and one did not need any standards or need to know about the law, and so on. This bill is very, very important. It means that immigration advisers must be licensed, they must know what they are talking about, they must be able to give advice, and they must work within the law. This bill is really, really overdue. We do feel very, very sorry for those people who have come to this country and had bad experiences. As the previous speaker said, many still have a nasty taste in their mouth about what happened to them through the process of getting here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EWe note there are exemptions from the licensing. Members of Parliament and members of their staff are exempt, and that is necessary because as members of Parliament we get a great number of people coming to our offices asking about their immigration status and what they should do, where they should go, and what action they should follow. We note that foreign diplomats and consular staff are exempt. We note that employees of the public service who provide immigration advice are exempt, obviously. Lawyers who are registered are exempt. Persons employed by, or working as volunteers for, community law centres are exempt. They give advice to people who come to them and really want to know where to go. People who provide immigration advice offshore for student permits are exempt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003ESo there are exemptions for people who are able to give advice, but generally we do not want any Tom, Dick, or Harry, or Jane or Joan, or whoever setting themselves up as immigration advisers and, as we have seen in the past, giving wrong advice, or, to put it crudely, ripping off people who want to come to this country by demanding large amounts of money, delivering wrong advice or no advice at all, and holding on to people\u2019s documents and making them wait and wait without receiving any satisfaction. I see the Minister nodding in agreement that this legislation is in response to corrupt practices that were going on. We thank the Minister for coming up with this legislation. We thank the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and we thank those who made submissions, because they informed the process and have been extremely important in this whole area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EWe note that the bill deals with codes of conduct as to what is expected of an immigration adviser, such as what they are expected to know, how they are expected to behave, how they are expected to deal with their clients, what documentation they deal with, their fees being reasonable, and so on. The job of the registrar will be to develop a code of conduct that advisers will have to comply with. It is very, very good that there is a complaints process and a disciplinary tribunal so people will have a form of redress, will be able to take complaints, and will be able to have some form of redress should they be dealt with erroneously or not get the proper information, advice, and treatment they should expect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EWe note that those who are licensed should have a certificate and that people who are seeking advice will be able to check that they are going to a legitimate adviser and not to someone who has set him or herself up. As I said, as constituent MPs many of us know people who have been to advisers, been given wrong advice, and ended up in tears in our offices, wondering what to do next and where to go. We have felt extremely sorry for those people, and are very grateful for this bill, because it will ensure that there will be some standards, that those standards will be carried out, and that those people will have an ability to make complaints and to deal with the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EOnce again, I thank everyone who has been involved, and I express an apology to those people who, in the past, were dealt with by people who were not up to scratch and did not give the advice they should have given. We express a big apology to those New Zealand immigrants who, as Sue Moroney said, still have a nasty taste in their mouths from their first experiences of this country\u2014from people who did not treat them in the way we would think was typical of good New Zealanders, or in a way that we ourselves or our families have experienced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749a724d-1ef9-49cb-9ba2-2610403653ea\u0022\u003EJust last weekend I heard someone say that when they came to New Zealand they were not dealt with properly, and that feeling does not go away. People still hold that grudge for a long time when they have been, as we have said, ripped off by people who have not had the integrity that will be demanded with this licensing process. So once again, I say thank you to all those who have been involved, and we look forward to the implementation of this law and greater justice and fairness for those who exercise it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e745caa173694aa0b4ca6b1e0e391f2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e745caa173694aa0b4ca6b1e0e391f2c\u0022\u003ESTEVE CHADWICK (Labour\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on this bill. I think it is extremely important for the fabric of New Zealand society. As a Government we have always stressed, since we came into office, that we need a very well-managed and balanced immigration programme and that that sort of programme was one of the keys to New Zealand\u2019s economic transformation. We are very aware that the Opposition has carped on somewhat about net migration loss, and we knew that this net migration loss had to be offset by attracting to New Zealand the right sorts of people who are given the right advice from the very beginning of the process. That is core to the fabric of the New Zealand identity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe have always trusted people in New Zealand. We have gone on good faith, goodwill, and trust. It is amazing how haphazard the immigration advice industry\u2014and it is an industry\u2014has become. It takes a constituent MP in a very busy office to see the number of cases that come to us as a default process after a person has tried to use the Immigration Service out of need and has to talk to someone he or she trusts about the process that has belittled what we want in an open and transparent Immigration Service. That is why I am very pleased to see in this bill the complaints and disciplinary tribunal. I think it puts this profession on a parallel and makes it relative to other professions. We are saying that immigration advisers must be professional in the way they go about their business. Along with that goes accountability, as it does for any other professionals, about the sort of advice given and also about the costing and the transparency of the process for these more vulnerable people when they want to come to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWhat a ghastly thing it is for any people from offshore who decide that New Zealand is the country of their choice\u2014not the country of default\u2014to meet an immigration adviser who gives them the wrong steer from the start. Members all know how we have to then make appeals to the Minister of Immigration, and we all know about the huge amount of resources that go into any appeal process because the wrong advice has been given in the first instance. So these people were put crook to begin with, either about what category they should be using or about what sort of visa they should be applying under, and from then on it is very difficult to unpick and undo a process that was faulty from the initial application. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI am also pleased that this tribunal is independent of the ministry. I think that is very, very important. In many cases I have had nowhere to go to other than the Minister\u2019s office, and I do not see that as being the right place, because then yet another official is asked to go and review the file and make sure that the right advice was given. Migrants ask to see members often\u2014but not in the members\u2019 offices, because they feel they are hiding under the threat of being sent back to their country of origin. As a constituent MP, I have been to some very peculiar places to meet some thoroughly decent people who have applied with the best intent of coming into New Zealand and contributing to our economic fabric, and who are in hiding and have nowhere to go. They have been led by some very good people through their ethnic association or their particular migrant community who have bothered to make the effort to put together a case to bring to a constituent MP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI have been appalled at what I have seen in terms of costs along the transaction pathway for applications. I have seen cases where costs have run to thousands and thousands of dollars and the associates of the migrant community have put in together to fund it in terms of getting the record straight. So I am really pleased that there is an independent tribunal for complaints. I think that tribunal will have to be thoroughly well resourced, because as soon as we have a complaints tribunal along the lines of any other tribunal that we are aware of, we will need to resource it. We have had the recent case of the Police Complaints Authority saying that if the Government is to set up the authority to answer the issues that come before it, we should resource it well. So I am pleased to see that complaints tribunal in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EReally good immigration advisers in my community have absolutely no problem at all about being licensed, about being subject to rigorous scrutiny over their professionalism, and about their need for ongoing professional development, because, goodness knows, we change the Immigration Act very frequently. Often the wrong advice is given unsuspectingly because immigration advisers are not even aware of the amendments that have happened to either the regulations or the Immigration Act. Immigration advisers are saying that they need to keep up with the play, and that they need to go and attend some seminars to know what is going on so that they do give the right advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI think that this is a thoroughly good bill. It even goes back to before Paul Swain\u2019s time, when members had to give names to the Hon Lianne Dalziel. She asked for members to come forward with specific names in order to cite immigration advisers, either onshore or offshore, who had been absolutely unscrupulous in their dealings. That information was hard enough to get out of constituents because they did not want to dob in the person who put them wrong and took their money under false pretences. So members gave a huge list to the Minister. Then she, to her credit, then Paul Swain, and now David Cunliffe and Clayton Cosgrove put their minds to creating a thoroughly professional bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI think it is a great thing that we are having this reading today, and I congratulate those on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee who took this bill so seriously. I do believe that this bill will bring us into line with other countries. It will show that we are a thoroughly decent country, and that we do not just go on trust and a bit of a wink and a nod. The professionalism around immigration now has raised the bar. This bill shows the standard we expect to see in our country, and we expect to abide by it, so we know we are getting the people here, welcoming them, and making them feel that they are part of our society. We are proud to have them here, and we are dissociating ourselves with the illegal and shonky practices of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI think that this is a fantastic bill. I know that the migrant community out there is very pleased about it. I went to the Indian association AGM. That association has been going in this country for 83 years. The Minister for Ethnic Affairs came, and those people were delighted with the steps this Government has undertaken, from when we got into office in 1999, in order to purge our processes and to put in place very, very strong and sustainable frameworks for immigration that cannot be unpicked by future Governments. I believe that we have met that commitment. The community that we discussed this bill with was delighted, and I am sure that we will go forward in a very positive manner with this bill behind us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022 data-id=\u002273a174650b0b4bbb862229e36e88706d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273a174650b0b4bbb862229e36e88706d\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with, I guess, three hats on to welcome the Immigration Advisers Licensing Bill. Firstly, I am myself an immigrant to New Zealand. Secondly, I am an electorate member of Parliament in a central city area that is often the first port of call for refugees and migrants coming to live in the beautiful city of Christchurch. Often the local MP\u2019s office is the place they head off to to get advice and help. Thirdly, I am a Labour member of Parliament who believes in fair and balanced law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EI would like to just briefly talk from those three perspectives. I was fortunate enough to come to New Zealand right back in 1991, when, probably, the pressure on immigration was somewhat less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a93babe9e34751829d5aa1eb1a9a36\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: You wouldn\u2019t get in now, Tim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226447828b06a24535ad06d12c6c9d8657\u0022\u003ETIM BARNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The member has started to heckle already. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EThe points system had just come in, I speak English as a first language\u2014after a fashion, as the Minister of Immigration has just commented\u2014and I was in a position where I did not have to seek paid work immediately. So I was one of the fortunate people. I did not need to go to a member of Parliament in my local area to get help. I conflicted against other parts of the immigration system, particularly living in a same-sex relationship, but that is another story for my autobiography one day. But anyway, I was the fortunate one in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003ESecondly, I now find myself in the position, as an electorate member of Parliament, where my office is heavily burdened by immigration casework. We reckon, out of the 75 hours of paid staff time in my electorate office, that about 30 of those hours is spent doing immigration casework. Fortunately, we are one block away from the local immigration office, and we also have very strong links with the ethnic and refugee communities, from which a lot of the issues are generated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EI often wonder why people come to a member of Parliament rather than always going to a lawyer. Obviously, there is an issue of money, and together with money comes the issue of specialism of lawyers, because back in the early 1990s very few lawyers had a real expertise in this area. Now a whole group of immigration advisers has grown up, and that is why we need this legislation today. Their expertise is variable and until this legislation goes through, the consumer guarantees really are not as great as they should be. So one reason people tend to come to members of Parliament for help in this area is entirely because they do not have a great trust in the advisers and the wider legal profession in this particular area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EThe second issue is that a good member of Parliament\u2014from whatever party\u2014will create strong links with the various ethnic communities and, through that, those communities will often be host to people who are coming to New Zealand who have immigration problems and who want to go to a friendly face for help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EThen the third issue is that the availability of free, independent advice agencies is limited. My electorate office is fortunate enough to be a couple of blocks from a community law centre. I used to be its coordinator, so I know the place well. It also has resources that are quite strained by the amount of immigration casework that it has had to take on, and it is unable to deal with the caseload that every one of the electorate offices in the city\u2014four Labour, one Progressive, and one National\u2014take on, in terms of immigration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EThe work we do is not to replace the role of an adviser or a lawyer. The role of a member of Parliament in this area is to be a translator of the system, and an advocate back into the Immigration Service. I have to give great credit to the local immigration office, because I think nowadays it has developed a real expertise in dealing with members of Parliament to pick up these issues, without the issues having to go any further. Just because one is a member of Parliament in an area generating lots of immigration cases does not necessarily mean to say that there will be lots and lots of letters through to Ministers to ask them to use their discretion. There is a whole range of issues that cause people to come to members of Parliament, as a friendly face, in order to get advocacy for their immigration issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EOne thing I have noticed when reviewing those cases is that it is not one size fits all. Often, we get cases coming to us as politicians that really resist any easy description. The matters are quite complex, and any law and any rule is going to struggle to be relevant and to be applied to that particular situation. For all those reasons I think it is really important that we recognise the role of members of Parliament in this area. I am glad to see the protection for MPs in this legislation, so we can continue to do our work, which is to give a bit of advice and a bit of information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EThe third point, just briefly, is that this law is necessary. This law is about protecting people in New Zealand, including New Zealand residents, to ensure that they get a fair service. We have heard from my Labour colleagues examples of shonky operators in this area. I will be pleased to report back tomorrow to those groups in my electorate and my city that we now have protections in place and we now have fair law in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EI commend our new immigration advisers licensing regime to the House, and I am very pleased to be the last speaker in this debate. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9a94bf3-a948-4410-8413-403a7454114b\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287c35a503a0f422aaee775e3c4142cfd\u0022\u003EDebate on Crown Entities, Public Organisations, and State Enterprises\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022518f96db69984f4b89eacd1c99994120\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022 data-id=\u002213ff68d4946445c3ae85d25b67b16bcf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213ff68d4946445c3ae85d25b67b16bcf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in Committee for the debate on the performance in 2005-06 and current operations of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises. The debate on the performance of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises is a series of debates on individual financial reviews of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises, as reported by select committees. The debates on the individual financial reviews should be relevant to their performance in the 2005-06 financial year and their current operations. A member may have no more than two calls on each financial review. A total of 3 hours is allowed for the debate. At the conclusion of the 3 hours, the Chairperson will report to the House. Only the financial reviews that have been reported are available for debate. A list of these is appended to the Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EI understand that members have indicated the Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises that they wish to debate. The first entity I understand that members wish to debate is the Government Superannuation Fund Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022388e594d1a0e4864b58368da1cbab107\u0022\u003EGovernment Superannuation Fund Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022 data-id=\u00228d31138bba5b4725a44a24cadeb5ed5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d31138bba5b4725a44a24cadeb5ed5b\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The Government Superannuation Fund Authority and the guardians to the fund have, in our view, had a remarkably good year. The fund has in excess of $12 billion within it, and it has returned, after fees, something in the region of 19.2 percent. So I think the guardians are to be congratulated, and I think the Government is to be congratulated on setting up this fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand First, of course, had advocated such a fund many, many years ago\u2014in fact, in the days when we were in coalition with the National Government\u2014and a referendum on that proposal was held and lost. I think that people now understand the value of what was being proposed at that time. I think that it is sad, because there have been times even before then when opportunities for a fund like this had been proposed but were always turned down. Sometimes that was because of the personalities involved, which I believe was the position in our case, and sometimes because of pure politics because it was the wrong side of the Chamber proposing such a fund. But now we have a fund and it is succeeding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EI cannot discuss the superannuation fund without mentioning the power of the Australian fund and the role it is playing in the Australian economy. We in New Zealand First would like to see that sort of fund happen here, and it is sad that we do not have it. But we are still hoping that compulsory superannuation contributions will become the norm, and we hope that the proposed KiwiSaver will turn into a compulsory scheme. We proposed that the superannuation fund be in named accounts, and we still hope that that will come to pass one day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First makes no bones about the fact that we believe the senior citizens of this country have had a raw deal over the years, and we have made it our mission to go out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfe93c6fc613438a9ca38a87f5f2d69b\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Self-interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022707b453a127241d9ba21a70d291d09af\u0022\u003ER DOUG WOOLERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much\u2014getting there fast! We have made no bones about the fact that we want to go out there and improve conditions for the senior citizens of this country. They have put in the hard yards, they have put in the work, and they have served our country well, and we believe that it is time for us to look after them when perhaps they cannot do that for themselves as well as they might. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EIn speaking to that point, we have been very proud to oversee in the agreement with the Labour Government a lift in superannuation, of $20 per week for a married couple, and we are very proud of that. We will also oversee\u2014and it was debated earlier this afternoon\u2014the SuperGold card coming to fruition in August of this year. We think that those things are positive, and more especially positive not just for the people whom they relate to, as in the senior citizens, but they are extremely valuable for the whole of the economy. The Australian model proves that, and the New Zealand model, once it has a few more years under its belt, will prove that also. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003EPersonally, I do not think that these things would have happened without New Zealand First. I still hope that we will get the named accounts in the superannuation fund, and we will still keep working towards that, with all of our considerable efforts in the years ahead\u2014the next election, and beyond. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae0b21e5231345b1a29fcc10237b4a05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae0b21e5231345b1a29fcc10237b4a05\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E I thank Mr Woolerton for his contribution to the debate. I think it is fair to say that his contribution stepped slightly wide of the Government Superannuation Fund Authority and did give the Government a lot of praise and support for the work it has done and the work it is about to do\u2014I feel like I am saying grace. But it is good to bring the focus back to the subject of the debate, which is the Government Superannuation Fund Authority, and to say that, overall, it has made very good progress in the current financial year. The total after-tax surplus of the fund was $462 million for the last year ended 30 June. The total net assets increased by $271.7 million. The total assets of the fund were $3.8 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EUnfortunately for the long-term future of the country, the total liabilities of the fund are about $15 billion, and clearly that is something that is being worked on. The level of the required Government contribution projected over 5 years from 30 June before the offset from employers is $577 million this year, rising to $618 million by 2010-11. So there is quite a large liability sitting there in that fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EAs far as the investment returns are concerned, the performance of the fund has been very strong over the past 3 years. In the last year the fund achieved a 13.5 percent return on average net assets. The best-performing asset classes were property and international equities. I know that it is strictly outside the realm of the debate, but I think the Chair will be liberal and let me say that in the first two quarters of this financial year, the fund has achieved a return of 6.3 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIn the last financial year the authority decided to allocate up to 15 percent of the fund\u2019s assets to alternative asset classes, in addition to the 7.5 percent allocation to property. The first step in implementing that was to shift 3 percent of the fund\u2019s assets from New Zealand bonds, taking them down from 8 percent to 5 percent to commodities futures. I am sure my colleague Maryan Street will be pleased to know that the authority has committed itself to the United Nations Principles for Responsible Investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u002258fd6739d89645a4bcd9c2ae3f3ba98c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258fd6739d89645a4bcd9c2ae3f3ba98c\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand, as reported\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f32cdce4ac74f2ca0eee73be1a1b2d3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member wish to speak on the Government Superannuation Fund Authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c522d6e0fec4b5f956579d5d2de499a\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc2515b36b34532a09840489a7abbb4\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Well then, you are in the wrong debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002214d88b7cab12417e86621bd89b83ea90\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022148c5130861343eeaea3dc1a50f1ed1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022148c5130861343eeaea3dc1a50f1ed1e\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e04b7fb8bcd48acabfcad862482c5f8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Groundhog Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f8363c912f42728afa9dafce0acf73\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: It is Groundhog Day indeed. We are back here after a 3-week adjournment. I rise to speak about the Reserve Bank report. It is very timely that we are discussing the Reserve Bank report tonight, given that there has been much publicity and discussion over recent weeks about monetary policy and about the Reserve Bank. In fact, if we cast our minds back over the last year or two, we will recall that there has been much discussion and conjecture about the role of the Reserve Bank and the results that fiscal policy have on monetary policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank is charged with many roles\u2014amongst them looking after our banknotes and money in circulation, etc. But it also looks after the management of monetary policy. As the report from the Reserve Bank to the Finance and Expenditure Committee states, the Reserve Bank has had a pretty tough time. Dr Bollard is not the bad guy here. Dr Bollard, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, is not the bad guy. The buck\u2014the inflationary buck, rising interest buck, and overpriced exchange rate buck\u2014stops with the Minister of Finance, Dr Cullen. The inflationary chickens have most certainly come home to roost. That process started probably about 6 or 7 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EMonetary policy does not operate in isolation. If one had read some reports over the last year, one would think that perhaps it does, but in fact it does not. Fiscal policy virtually totally drives the forces that drive the decisions on monetary policy within New Zealand. That is what the Reserve Bank is charged with doing. Most New Zealanders may think of the Reserve Bank as just raising interest rates and the exchange rate, and as managing our banknotes, etc. But the Reserve Bank in the last year has been very, very busy. For example, in the middle of the year it took a trip to Japan. Members may recall that at about that time, the exchange rate of the New Zealand dollar was about 64c or 65c to the US dollar. At that time the Reserve Bank was trying to discourage the Japanese from investing in New Zealand, to help, perhaps, to hold our exchange rate at the level of that time. It is worth noting that at the moment the exchange rate is about 74c to the US dollar, I believe. It has gone up by another 9c\u2014about 17 percent\u2014over the past year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand the Reserve Bank prides itself on its independence and on the transparency of monetary policy. So what has changed? What has changed over the past year? What has changed over the year of the Reserve Bank report that we are talking about? Why suddenly tomorrow\u2014as Dr Cullen alluded to today in the Chamber\u2014will the Finance and Expenditure Committee be asked for solutions around monetary policy? What an amazing admission of failure that is! Why has the Finance and Expenditure Committee suddenly been asked for solutions around monetary policy? What is going on there? There are many conflicting reports. Just last week we heard Dr Cullen say one thing, Mr Mallard say another thing, and the Prime Minister say another thing again. Who is in charge? Is it Dr Cullen, Mr Mallard, the Prime Minister, or Dr Bollard? Who is actually in charge? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe monetary conditions we have at the moment have been 7 years in the making. There is massive resource pressure and there are massive constraints within the economy. One can trace the origins of our current problems back to about 2000-01, when the price target agreement was changed. We moved from having hard barriers to inflation\u2014which were once 0 to 2 percent\u2014that provided certainty to New Zealanders, New Zealand business, and, of course, the Government accounts. We moved from that to a point where we have soft targets of 1 to 3 percent over the medium term, which is defined as being about 3 years. That has given rise to the absolutely absurd situation that if yesterday\u2019s consumer price index had come out at 10 percent, for example, as long as the Reserve Bank governor was forecasting inflation to come back to between 1 and 3 percent over the medium term, then he would be doing his job. He would be entirely within his rights, doing his job, and fulfilling the obligations between him, the board, and the Minister of Finance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAt about the time of that change, we saw consumer price index inflationary expectations start to rise. As those expectations started to rise, interest rates started to rise, and, funnily enough, the exchange rate started to rise. We now have inflation expectations based around 3 percent. I ask someone to show me a wage claim, salary claim, or price increase that is less than 3 percent. That is now the base, and it is absolutely cancerous to our economy. Just as an aside, though, members should imagine where the consumers price index would be if our exchange rate was actually 20 or 30 percent lower than it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWhat is broken? What is broken in our monetary policy framework? It is actually working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a45b7f72f96b4a25be0a0f9fd6a717d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a45b7f72f96b4a25be0a0f9fd6a717d8\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge and put it on the record that the previous speaker was Mr Craig Foss from Tukituki. I think that everyone who was listening to this debate should know who it was. I had to ask just in order to check that, but it was Mr Craig Foss from Tukituki. People who were listening to him should know that, because, frankly, although he actually has more experience than the Leader of the Opposition in the finance markets and has done better than him, he should know a lot more than he showed he did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E Mr Craig Foss should know that one of the reasons the Finance and Expenditure Committee is, I understand, contemplating an inquiry is that we cannot trust Bill English on this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e5f52514234ba9b0d5a3b01d4a8d4c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254d6109524b748a58d1d74a66e96812d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: On the question of monetary policy, as the member was indicating, going before the committee, he asked the reason for that, Mr Chairman, so I think I am allowed to give a response. The response is that Mr Bill English, when involved in confidential discussions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a36c026245480e84064f380bdec286\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Pulled the pin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cad711f3a77e49778eb4e58ab5b34bba\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014pulled the pin, made them public, and undermined his own leader, who was supportive of a particular mechanism. So this Government has decided that if the committee decides to do so, it will be good to have something that is clear and transparent and to have open discussion about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe member makes points about fiscal policy. He is one of the worst members in terms of demanding more Government spending. He wants tax cuts and more spending, and then he complains about fiscal policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff3c15ef8bf24d999cad02b9455864f1\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s your productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c19d7e665b24771b58c1f3c0776ff74\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, some productivity from that member would be good. Some productivity from that member would be a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20f869e312e4db9ac8f31be120c6064\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t even measure it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022348ce541cba24de580f1c5c748a29cb0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is very, very hard to measure productivity like that\u2014very hard to measure stuff that does not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe next point I want to make goes to the contrast between the parties on the fiscal approach. The National Party has announced today that it will strip money from working families, and give it to National\u2019s mates by way of tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228742e19fa3df49998f8a04965ee0de4d\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What did your tax rates do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e21e9d59b64330974b33bc6529334f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly the point. He wants to strip money from working families. He has indicated that he wants a tighter fiscal policy. At the same time, he wants a looser fiscal policy. But on the way there, he wants to have a transfer of money from people with kids to his rich mates. That is not on. That is the sort of election we want to have. We will have an election on that\u2014on the National Party stripping money from working families and giving it to its rich mates. This Government will be keen to have that sort of debate, albeit it will be one more about fiscal policy and the approaches to that than about monetary policy. But given that the member brought that into this discussion, I thank him very much and ask him to bring it on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022a320edbf6d0c400780b9e4aa3dc0e426\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a320edbf6d0c400780b9e4aa3dc0e426\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted, as a colleague and as an Associate Minister of Finance along with my colleague the other Associate Minister, to follow Trevor Mallard. I have to say that when we talk about monetary policy I recall, when I was chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, the Governor of the Reserve Bank coming to a meeting. He always provided us with excellent information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut we are debating monetary policy and Mr Foss talked about conflicts and contradictions. Well, I have to say that before Bill English appeared on Close Up with me a couple of weeks ago to debate the dollar, he had just put out a statement that said it was all the Government\u2019s fault and that we should cut expenditure. Then he went on Close Up and was asked what he would cut. Would he cut the 1,000 extra police? Would he cut the public service? Would he cut the number of teachers? He responded to Mark Sainsbury when challenged by saying: \u201CYou don\u2019t need to cut expenditure.\u201D So Mr English put out a press release saying we should cut it\u2014we are talking about monetary policy here, because the fiscal situation that National proposes has an effect on monetary policy, as we know\u2014then he said we do not need to cut it. Then, when questioned again, he said we are doing too well and we need to cut growth. So that member can talk about contradictions in fiscal policy! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EHe is from a crew who criticises quality Government expenditure, like the biggest roading programme we have seen in 30 years, fairer wages for nurses, a free 20 hours of early childhood education, and 1,000 extra police. And then that member has the audacity to go on about inadequacies and a lack of quality in expenditure. If he had got into Government, he was going to drop on us a $7.4 billion tax cut, half of it borrowed, and inject it directly into the economy. I ask that financial genius over there to tell me what that would have done to the inflation rate and the Reserve Bank governor\u2019s ability to control monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr English would have given his mates, the then leader of National, Dr Brash, and himself a hundred bucks a week, but most of my constituents and low and middle-income constituents around $20 or $30. And he goes on about the need to contract expenditure! This, of course, is after all his colleagues for months have called for more money in corrections, youth justice, roading, and police. Mr English went on national television and thought he could hoodwink the public by saying we should cut expenditure, then said that we did not need to and that the answer to our problems in respect of inflation and the dollar was to cut growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EApparently, according to Mr English, we are all doing too well. The economy is doing just too well. It is over capacity\u2014going gangbusters. We have the fourth lowest unemployment rate in the OECD and the longest stretch of economic growth since the war. So what is the National Party prescription to deal to it all? National members say: \u201CLet\u2019s cut economic growth.\u201D Well, I say to them that there is an easy way to achieve that task. If they were ever to win an election, they would cut growth, and the dollar, and inflation overnight, just through the lack of confidence they would engender in the financial community through speeches like the one that financial genius Mr Foss made tonight. I say to Mr Foss\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d13584e7cb466d91da5fdecfb4d19c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s one of their better members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218a1b063ada54f049def4cbe67a165cb\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague is known for his judgment, but on this one he may be out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to National members that they cannot have it both ways. They cannot say to people at one end of the pub: \u201CWe should spend more on roads, police, and prisons.\u201D, and then say to the guys at the other end: \u201CIsn\u2019t the Government awful! We should be cutting expenditure.\u201D Silly members like Mr Foss do not realise that the boys from both ends of the public house tend to get together, have a wee chat, and realise that that member speaks with a forked tongue, out of both sides of his trap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say that this is a debate about monetary policy. It is a serious debate. It is not a debate about political posturing and going on television to say that all we need to do is cut expenditure, cut growth, or whatever. This is a serious issue that most of the economies in the world are grappling with. Our problem, which is sort of like trying to nail a jelly to a wall\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b37336184844714af2f956a235f2fd3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Like the 21 above us, you mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291eeacc0d5af43c790476bc37cd862f3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: That member exhibits every facet of a jelly. He is all over the place. But when we have an economy going gangbusters, when we have people in jobs, when people have confidence in the economy because we no longer have boom-and-bust cycles, and when people are investing in property and other assets because they feel confident, then we do get pressures on the dollar and pressures on inflation. Consumption is up because people have money in their pockets. So I say to that member that he should go back to Economics 101, read a textbook, and get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022548310eabfe4429b94f0e783501dd4a7\u0022\u003ETelevision New Zealand Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6bbf6899fab4c06be78f09ffeac6b3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6bbf6899fab4c06be78f09ffeac6b3e\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E There is more bad news. This 2005-06 financial review is more bad news for this beleaguered, sorry Minister, whose broadcasting policy is completely in tatters along with his career. On the second to last day of the last sitting, Minister Maharey, the self-styled future Labour Party leader and future Prime Minister of New Zealand, made a career-ending blunder from the front bench over there. We are not hearing anything from his colleagues because, quite frankly, they were quite happy about that. The Labour right, over there, including Mr Cosgrove and the man who lost the seat of Tukituki, were quite secretly delighted. Mr Mallard, the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, was taking a bit of relish in the situation as well, because he knows that has moved him, in his own mind, one place further up the rankings. This is the end for Mr Maharey. It must have been absolutely devastating for him. If members think the language was blue here in the Chamber, they can imagine what it was like when he went back to his office\u2014the hair tearing; the head in the hands. The career was over; it was all gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EBut that would have been nothing compared with the language coming down from the ninth floor, as \u201CH2\u201D and \u201CH1\u201D got on the phone and told Maharey he had blown it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e27d7ec309784eb9976e69116d985729\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will use the Minister\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b7ba77f89ff4a4386bd4d64a0e0da23\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Minister Maharey\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022492aa2319509438d9e465ef1f209bc4b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member must be seated while I am on my feet. The member will use the Minister\u2019s correct name and his title, not a nickname.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a8b6a2cb13e42c8823ae305bbf738c5\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CH1\u201D and \u201CH2\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed1247735c6e46f3b9ec6afd6e267b8d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will use the names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cf8f354aa36485f9c9dd332df1a1325\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. The Prime Minister, Helen Clark, and her sidekick Heather Simpson would have been ringing down from the ninth floor, saying to Steven Maharey, Minister of Broadcasting, that he had blown his future in the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI can imagine the emails pouring in by the thousands to Mr Maharey, telling him exactly what the public thought of the Minister of Broadcasting and the Minister of Education totally losing his rag in the House. It was absolutely disgraceful. We were hoping that maybe he might front up the next day to take his punishment, to take his medicine, but no. Where did he go? Well, we do not know, but he certainly was not here in the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EWe can talk about Mr Maharey and the end of his career all that we like, but the reality is, as the academics have said, that Mr Maharey\u2019s broadcasting policy is in tatters. The reality, when we are talking about Television New Zealand (TVNZ), is that the executives there are playing with the cards that Mr Maharey has dealt them. They are doing the best they can do. It is the Government broadcasting policy that has got TVNZ into the situation it is in. Mr Maharey was very, very keen on the TVNZ charter, and he is very, very keen to use TVNZ as a cash cow. So he is putting stringent demands on it at the top end, and then he is pulling the cash out at the bottom. Last year TVNZ had to pay an extraordinary dividend of $70 million, and it had to go into debt by $60 million in order to pay that. All the Minister can say, when he is asked about that on Radio New Zealand, is that that is the business model, and it is good for businesses to carry debt. Well, it needs a bit more of a sophisticated explanation than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EFrankly, what is this Minister\u2019s charter delivering? It is delivering the destruction of 160 jobs. It is delivering the end of current affairs analysis in New Zealand. I put it to the Minister\u2014and maybe he will get up and explain this\u2014that if he has deteriorating advertising revenues at TVNZ, and if he has a charter that asks TVNZ to produce a certain type of content but he also has commercial impositions that he is placing on it, something has to give. What will give is the quality of broadcasting. We went through that in 2001, with project regeneration under Marian Hobbs over there. That was meant to be the new dawn. Everything was meant to be great, and charter television was going to deliver. Mr Maharey said he was looking forward to seeing an improved standard and a greater quality in broadcasting under the charter. And what has he delivered? One hundred and sixty job cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EBut it is even worse than that. The Government is trying to launch 24-hour television\u2014a 24-hour news channel. I would be very interested, if the Minister takes a call\u2014which I hope he will do\u2014to see whether he can get up and explain to me how, when he has cut $10 million from the news budget and cut 160 jobs, he will deliver on a 24-hour news channel. How will TVNZ be able to pull the Television One ratings back up? The reality is that the people at TVNZ are doing the best they can do, but this Minister has got them by the proverbials and they have nowhere left to go. The Minister has totally lost his grasp on policy. If we look at digital television, we see that he said it would cost $300 to get a set top box. It will cost double that. It is clear that the policy is in tatters, and the Minister needs to explain that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022764697deb7ad450a85a8a5cec38e09d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022764697deb7ad450a85a8a5cec38e09d0\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te H\u0113amana, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, the Chairperson, and to all of us in the House.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EOne of Television New Zealand (TVNZ)\u2019s top 10 charter objectives was supposed to be to ensure in its programmes and programme planning the participation of M\u0101ori and the presence of a significant M\u0101ori voice. Well, excuse me if I choke on that piece of garbage. Apart from Te Karere, Waka Huia, and Marae, which are paid for out of ring-fenced funding, the only new M\u0101ori programme on Television New Zealand seems to be a 5-minute drama slotted into that prime 4.30 in the afternoon time slot, the one right next to Te Karere. I want to give no offence to my mate Willie Jackson, but Eye to Eye once a week hardly qualifies as the significant M\u0101ori voice. That is a pity, because some outstanding talent out there is being hidden away in some really poor time slots\u2014like that for a doco produced by Tere Harrison, an independent radio, television, and film producer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EFraming Maori gave us an insider\u2019s look into the analysis that tells us that the television coverage of M\u0101ori issues is unbalanced\u2014as if we did not already know that. It exploded the myth of journalistic objectivity and called for more culturally informed news reporting. It was an excellent programme that nobody saw, of course, because it was on at 9.30 a.m. on a Saturday morning. In fact, independent studies confirm that there is a lot more bad news than good news about M\u0101ori on television, and that the so-called presence of a significant M\u0101ori voice tends to be on programmes like Coast Watch, Crimewatch, or the 6 o\u2019clock news. That view was backed up by the visit of the United Nations special rapporteur last year, when he noted the \u201Csystematic negative description of M\u0101ori in media coverage\u201D as being of special concern. When Television One is brave enough to put forward a significant M\u0101ori voice, it is at the crack of dawn, late at night, or on mornings at the weekends, when wh\u0101nau have other responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt is timely to raise these points in this debate because just a month ago the national hui of M\u0101ori film and television broadcasters, Ng\u0101 Aho Whakaari, again challenged TVNZ for not fulfilling its charter obligations to M\u0101ori, citing an age-old joke about Te Karere being a programme that one sees only in the winter, because when the cricket is on Te Karere gets shunted to midnight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe TVNZ programming that does have the presence of a significant M\u0101ori voice is impressive. It is professional, high quality, and reflects the integrity and talents of some of our finest broadcasters, but it is just hidden away in all of the wrong places. Over the years we have seen the likes of Ernie Leonard, Whai Ngata, Derek Wooster, K\u012Bngi \u012Ahaka, Hone Ka,Julian Wilcox, Wena Harawira, and heaps of others who have recorded our stories, captured priceless memories, and contributed to an immense archive of knowledge and an enviable resource that has a legacy well outside of its monetary value. In fact, the presence of a significant M\u0101ori voice can even be something as simple as seeing Carol Hirschfeld and Mike McRoberts on TV3, which raises the obvious question of where the equivalent significant M\u0101ori faces are in TVNZ.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac098dabe1448aba5e90245eaf4d700\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: On M\u0101ori Television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e8aa7e6fae94758bcb61d483fa8a2ac\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: It is TVNZ that we are talking about here. Those faces are gone. The issue is not just about the charter; it is also about seeing the faces and hearing the voices in order to know it to be true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt is hard to stomach lies about the presence of a significant M\u0101ori voice, when the flagship stories of the M\u0101ori world that feature on the State broadcaster receive inferior programming slots, meagre resources, and little screen time for top M\u0101ori broadcasters. We also note, too, that it is not just M\u0101ori programmes that are suffering from the constant haemorrhaging of viewers to the competition. TVNZ blew it big time when it decided to dump its stars: Paul Holmes, Judy Bailey, Susan Wood, Mike Hosking, Richard Long, and the list goes on. When the stars went, so did the audience. The ratings dropped, the advertising revenue slumped, and now TVNZ seems to be caught up in a vicious spiral of its own making. It now looks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u002271e86a170db34282a71166411eef376f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271e86a170db34282a71166411eef376f\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Broadcasting):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213e8bd23a982492ab6eeff6d317ac17f\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Minister!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663f79a3165d4bc1bd35143a034c5cdc\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I was trying to be quiet, because it was a good speech. I think Mr Harawira has raised issues that go to the heart of what we are trying to do with broadcasting, and of course that is to make sure Television New Zealand, the major public broadcaster in the country, does represent audiences right across the whole of the country. I thank him for his speech and hope he carries on raising those kinds of points about M\u0101ori broadcasting, because although we do have, as Mr Paraone pointed out, a M\u0101ori broadcaster 24/7 each week\u2014and it is doing a fantastic job; it is publicly funded, part of the public service organisations of this country\u2014Television New Zealand is still responsible for ensuring that it represents the wide spectrum of viewers and we want to see that it does serve M\u0101ori interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E Can I go back to Mr Coleman, who made, I think, his first foray into broadcasting this evening. I have not heard him speak on broadcasting before, and I thought for the first 2 minutes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540f1158e7f74eaeb210c3b19e5ac18e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Which one is Mr Coleman?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269e1e244a01944cca8da6f2dec8c37cd\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Coleman is the one who spoke before. I thought for the first 2 minutes of his speech that we were not going to hear about broadcasting, because he talked largely about his incident with a cigar, as far as I could tell, and the fact that his career had come to an end after he blundered around the corporate boxes in Auckland. He made a huge mistake for a new member, and of course ruined his career. I thought that was what he was going to talk about the whole time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EOne of the things we all know is that when people come into the House they do not necessarily come in with a background that fits the portfolio they get into. Mr Carter had no background in housing, for example, but he got the housing portfolio. People come in with different backgrounds and they have to go into portfolios they are not necessarily familiar with. Mr Coleman, I understand, is a medical doctor and therefore has no expertise in broadcasting at all apart from sitting watching it, no doubt, now and again. Unfortunately, he did not follow the golden rule for people who are moving in from a background where they do not understand the portfolio, and that is to spend some time finding out about it\u2014spend a bit of time finding out about how the portfolio works. So half of his inaugural speech this evening was spent on his own blunders and his ruining his career, and what followed on was a disjointed discussion that showed nothing but complete ignorance about the portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI want to tell people who are listening this evening that this debate is an opportunity for Opposition members to get up and ask insightful questions about a portfolio, following on from a review by a select committee. They do not have to be rocket scientists. They do not have to be geniuses. They do not have to have all the facts and figures at their fingertips. They have to simply listen to what has been said, what select committees have done, distil from that some questions, and come to the Chamber and ask them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EMr Coleman began his series of discussions by talking about dividends. If he simply looked at the dividend for Television New Zealand, he would find that right through the 1990s the National Government got 25 percent dividends from Television New Zealand, on average, every single year. That was commercial television. That was a publicly owned commercial television company providing for the Government 25 percent dividends every single year. That Government was also the genius Government that allowed Television New Zealand to sell its shares in Sky, so it no longer had a foot in the digital world that we are now having to go into in 2007. Those members were the geniuses who drove the National Party policy in the 1990s. On top of that they gave the broadcaster money to pay for it and never got it back, at all\u2014never ever raised that money back again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ESo we have Mr Jonathan Coleman, in his first time down in the Chamber, asking what sort of dividend we get. It is, on average, around 6 percent. That includes the highest level of revenue that Television New Zealand has enjoyed in probably 30 years. During the period 2004-05 advertising went through the roof for all broadcasters. They made substantial money. Do we ask Television New Zealand for all of that? Do we say that we should have that dividend back? Or do we reinvest it in the broadcaster? Mr Jonathan Coleman would not know. Jonathan Coleman did not know what his own Government was gouging out of Television New Zealand. Would he know what is coming out of it now? No. He did not bother to read the report. He does not know anything about the dividend. He does not know why a dividend is asked for. This company earns over $400 million a year. Would taxpayers thank this Committee for saying: \u201CDon\u2019t act like a business on that money. Don\u2019t try to make a return on that money. Just go soft. Don\u2019t worry about it.\u201D? Of course they would not. They would say: \u201CNo, you cannot do that; what we want to see is a financially robust organisation.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EIt could be possible to go on and talk about why a company might carry some debt. This company carries no debt. We could go on and talk about what the charter actually does, but I doubt whether it has been read. We could talk about how much a set top box costs, which is run, of course, by a private company called FreeView which is being launched tomorrow. I doubt whether Mr Coleman has been invited, because I am sure that company does not know who he is, but if he did turn up, he would find that the starting price is not $300 as he said, but $249. It would be interesting, in other words, to get a spokesperson on the other side who knew something about the portfolio and therefore could have an intelligent debate, but so far no good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u002210ef8623d3f84550a33fd1a3f93c6412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210ef8623d3f84550a33fd1a3f93c6412\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that the next entities members wish to debate are the Crown research institutes. Is there any objection to taking these as one question? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002234f6501bb92a4b86838ab589d963427f\u0022\u003EIndustrial Research Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e14f7d43fcd4afc924d7703d1f66eca\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Forest Research Institute Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225b3ddabce2644798e9728aef9067767\u0022\u003EAgResearch\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b48eaa6fe9124a869a07bfdf695c89eb\u0022\u003EInstitute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295d40c1a60364516b82c367ca3076c79\u0022\u003ELandcare Research New Zealand Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002290cb27792f8c42f893f7638d4fa2dd19\u0022\u003EInstitute of Environmental Science and Research Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5983de3292a4bd2b82ca75d9e320fac\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Institute for Crop and Food Research Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253bb874d6e7340119885cceaeaa8359f\u0022\u003EHorticulture and Food Research Institute of New Zealand Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d8d070a898b4b239c68535218045b9c\u0022\u003ENational Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a82b36b02af0421fb9d4a3adb0fe5818\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a82b36b02af0421fb9d4a3adb0fe5818\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for that accommodation, but with the Crown research institutes there are lessons to be learnt from the reviews of each and every one of them and just to speak to one is, in fact, very limiting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EBut I rise, in fact, first and foremost to make a confession. Because last year, in this debate when I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f2b3485903e401998709e79dfabdca3\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: The Catholic coming out!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223051cdcac96f47cf9cd0f23285bf1613\u0022\u003EHon BRIAN DONNELLY\u003C/span\u003E: Mea culpa, mea culpa. I actually made this brilliant speech about two Crown research institutes and their financial reviews from, in fact, the year before, prior to the one we were supposed to be debating. To the credit of the Minister, without the blink of an eyelid he just got up and responded to my speech as if I was making it in the right year. The only person in the Chamber who actually knew that I had made this blunder was Katherine Rich and, bless her heart, she never brought it to the attention of the Committee. But in this particular case I am going to be talking about the Crown research institute review from the particular year that we are supposed to be debating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost I want to range across a number of them and some of the lessons learnt from each of them. The National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research is the first I want to touch upon, noting that, in fact, the institute paid a dividend to the Government, and this is something that we have to recognise with Crown research institutes. It paid a dividend of $13 million to the Crown, so its work assisted all areas of New Zealand through that financial contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EDuring the previous financial review of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research, before the Education and Science Committee 3 or 4 years ago, concern was expressed about the continued viability of the research vessel Tangaroa. The vessel had just completed a major oceanographic study of New Zealand\u2019s continental shelf, out as far as Lord Howe Island, and expanded our knowledge extensively, particularly with the finding of a considerable number of previously unknown species of flora and fauna. However, at the time of that review the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research had no decent contracts for which it could employ the specialities of the Tangaroa and hence concern was expressed that it may have to be sold. It is therefore to the credit of the institute that, in the financial year under review, contracts were gained that kept the Tangaroa and, in fact, one other vessel at sea for a total of 562 days covering 1,000,399 nautical miles, and I want that particular achievement to be noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EI also want noted the potential conflict between the Meteorological Service and the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research, but it is good, in fact, to hear that confidential mediation is going on to ensure that they stick to their knitting and that taxpayers\u2019 money is not being used for duplication of roles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EThe next Crown research institute I want to refer to is the Horticulture and Food Research Institute of New Zealand. That institute certainly has had a difficult and chequered past. In 2002 it lost $5 million of Government research investment, which led to 40 redundancies, the subsequent loss of scientific capability, and financial losses for 2 years. The institute has had to work hard to get back on its feet. In particular it is noted that HortResearch won the HR Initiative of the Year award for its great leadership programme. Staff turnover is, in fact, relatively low at this particular time, and that is necessary for the continued growth of this Crown research institute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003EHowever, two critical points came out of that review. We were told that an alarming figure of 30 percent of key scientific time at HortResearch is taken up in bidding for funds. We have just had a lecture by Professor Peter Gluckman who once again said that we have not got the balance right between contestability and competitiveness, and the ability to enable our scientists to focus upon the science that they need to develop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E The second issue concerns the cumbersome procedures dealing with post-entry requirements for research on organic material from outside New Zealand. Once again, it is worthwhile noting that HortResearch, the Environmental Risk Management Authority, and the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry are in fact working together to develop protocols that will simplify this complicated process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E Industrial Research Ltd, usually referred to as IRL, is another Crown research institute that has had to face significant financial challenges, largely through going it alone in selectively risky commercial ventures in areas where it was hard to attract investment partners, particularly from within New Zealand. Realistically, Industrial Research Ltd has only 100 to 150 potentially joint-venture partners that are commercially viable. The select committee has noted the strengthened financial performance of Industrial Research Ltd and improved internal financial discipline. It also noted that eight out of 12 of the Foundation for Research, Science and Technology contracts that have been \u201Con watch\u201D, as it is said, have now been removed from that status. The lesson to be learnt from the experience of Industrial Research Ltd is that Crown research institutes need to be realistic in setting up their projected revenues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad207718173c4c1ba5a1525f3f42d3cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad207718173c4c1ba5a1525f3f42d3cd\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Crown Research Institutes):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to follow on from Brian Donnelly, who chairs the Education and Science Committee and therefore would know a great deal about what is going on with Crown research institutes at the moment. Following on from his comments, I want to highlight four general areas that will be of interest to the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe first one is that in this financial year the total revenue from the Crown research institutes portfolio rose by 4.7 percent, which is, I think, an interesting turn-round in where things have been with the Crown research institutes over the last little while. These are difficult businesses. Once again\u2014a little like Television New Zealand\u2014we are asking them to earn revenue, because around the world these days science clearly earns large revenue. As well, we are asking them to ensure that they match their public service goal of delivering on good science. They have to balance those goals, so it was good this year to see a little bit of a turn-round in the amount of money they have been able to return, with the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd being, yet again, as the member pointed out, the stand-out institute in relation to the dividend returned to the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe second general point I would like to raise is commercialisation. We are now putting very, very systematic pressure, if you like, on Crown research institutes to commercialise\u2014to build a culture of trying to create value that they move down the chain and out the door\u2014to try to create some extra value for the country. This year Crown research institutes entered into at least 50 joint ventures and licensing agreements. Some very interesting work has happened around Industrial Research Ltd. We have not yet seen the money, of course, but this year Industrial Research Ltd entered into the sixth biggest biotechnology licensing agreement in the world. If that pays off, we are talking in terms of about $600 million being generated, and that will be captured, in part, by Industrial Research Ltd. Those kinds of developments are very good. AgResearch itself is the biggest of our Crown research institutes and it has had a large number of licensing deals this year. A lot of new activity is going on in relation to AgResearch, with the appointment of Andrew West as its chief executive. We are seeing some very interesting things happen there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EThe third major point I would like to mention is collaborations. One of the things that is also encouraging is for universities, firms, and Crown research institutes to get much closer together, and over the last little while this year I have been extremely pleased to see\u2014taking AgResearch as an example\u2014something like 80 agreements signed up around the country between AgResearch and the universities. The Hopkirk Research Institute at Palmerston North, now one of the major research centres in New Zealand, will be a good expression of that, between Massey University and AgResearch. I am sure that collaborations are something the select committee would have been pleased to see, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003ELastly, I really urge members to get alongside Crown research institutes in terms of the sheer quality of science that is going on within them. When it comes to science, Crown research institutes quite often feel that although they are chugging away doing hard work, it is the universities that people always seem to talk about when it comes to doing research. These are big research engines that the Crown research institutes represent. They are large, in the shape of AgResearch, and a lot smaller in the shape, say, of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Ltd, but they are all doing outstanding scientific work. Their people are publishing. For example, last year there were 4,500 publications from Crown research institutes, 700 workshops and seminars, and so on. This is the kind of work they are doing constantly, and I certainly urge members, if they are keen to get alongside the Crown research institutes, particularly if they happen to be in a Dunedin seat, a Christchurch seat, or in Hamilton, Wellington, or Auckland, to make sure the institutes understand they are recognised and to tell their stories. They are doing great science at the moment. They are publicly owned, but they often feel a little left behind by the universities when people talk about these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EI think it has been a good year and I commend the Crown research institutes. It is a tough environment. They are given the tough task of balancing science and commercial goals, but I think that this year they have done us proud, both in the financial sense and in the sense of producing good science. I thank the select committee for its excellent review of the Crown research institutes this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003EReports noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdd5291d7abb4ad88faf9680b8cb60f1\u0022\u003ELand Transport New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002271c0fbd0511949f6b3b5e087061360b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c0fbd0511949f6b3b5e087061360b0\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Greens are pleased to be able to speak on the financial review of Land Transport New Zealand. The Green Party, under its agreement with Labour in the last Parliament, helped to rearrange Land Transport New Zealand through the Land Transport Management Act, and out of that came Land Transport New Zealand as a management and funding body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EA land transport strategy was developed to guide Land Transport New Zealand, involving such criteria as the contribution of the mode of transport\u2014the particular project\u2014to economic development, to environmental protection, and to the health of people, their safety, and their mobility. If we look at all those criteria, we see that they apply more directly to public transport, to walking, and to cycling, which are clearly healthier, have fewer polluting fumes, are safer, etc. The better our public transport system is, the greater the contribution will be to the economy of our cities and our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOn all of those grounds, the direction of Land Transport New Zealand should have been twisting more away from road building to developing alternatives to individual car use through public transport, walking, and cycling. It is true that in Land Transport New Zealand\u2019s annual report one will find that increased attention has been paid to such things as walking and cycling, and to how that body will implement the major components of the report called Getting there\u2014on foot, by cycle. Some progress has been made, as is indicated in the report. But we see from the figures that the total funding of $4.4 million for walking and cycling projects funded 36.7 kilometres of walkways and cycleways, which is not all that much really for a country of the size of New Zealand. The report then goes on to talk about this involving cycle plans and things like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EFifty-five school travel plans were funded, which is, of course, a good start, but there are a lot more schools than that in the country. Forty-one workplace travel plans were funded. So although some progress has been made, there is a long way to go towards really developing alternatives to using cars to get to work, school, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThen there is the section on spending on public transport\u2014$209 million in that financial year, out of $1,700 million altogether in terms of what was funded. So that is 12 percent going to public transport, which is still a very small proportion, particularly when public transport has fallen behind so much in New Zealand. That is particularly the case in Auckland, where I am living at the present time. That is a small proportion\u201412 percent\u2014of spending on public transport. We then had the problem that when the Budget came forth towards the end of that financial year, it announced a $1.5 billion roading package, which made that imbalance worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOften when the Greens question the Government on this imbalance between public transport spending and road construction, we are told that public transport spending has gone up percentage-wise a lot more than road expenditure has over the period of the Labour Government\u2014which is true in percentage terms. But actually, when we look at the figures, we see that the gap between road spending and public transport spending in straight dollar amounts has widened. We look at the projections further out and see that the gap is widening all the time, and that is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOne of the problems is the guidelines that Land Transport New Zealand has been operating under, in terms of how it either subsidises or pays for road construction and public transport infrastructure. There is what is called the financial assistance rate, which means that State highways are fully funded\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002284f7c1ee179c432aad0bf9bbfb0967fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284f7c1ee179c432aad0bf9bbfb0967fa\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E As we look at the financial review of Land Transport New Zealand, it is important also to look at a document that came out earlier this year, the report of the Ministerial Advisory Group on Roading Costs. That gives us a fairly good indication of how Land Transport New Zealand is going, and how this Minister is going in her portfolio. Let us have a look at some of the quotes from that document. It states: \u201CLand Transport NZ should take an enhanced role in evaluating major projects, and in monitoring scope and cost.\u201D The report is pretty damning of this Minister and this Government. It states things like: \u201CPapers presented to Land Transport NZ for the release of design funding do not appear to present the full evaluation of incremental costs and benefits for the various options. Therefore, it is difficult for the Land Transport NZ Board to make a fully informed decision about the merits of [a decision]. \u2026 There does not seem to have been a systematic process to establish the scope of [projects]\u201D. It carries on with comments such as: \u201C\u2026 Land Transport NZ appear to have accelerated the funding consent \u2026 for [certain projects]. \u2026 Unfortunately, this is often at the expense of a comprehensive review of the justification for additional scope and the related cost.\u201D It states: \u201CThe Advisory Group considers that there is currently a strategic gap in the overall framework. There needs to be greater clarity of outcomes and monitoring against measurable objectives, together with strong leadership and governance to achieve these.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThese are pretty damning comments about a department and about the process it uses. It states: \u201CThere is a gap in the existing national strategy and planning framework for land transport.\u201D It states: \u201CValue for money was not identified as a key objective \u2026 The performance measures should also include indicators of value for money.\u201D \u201CLand Transport NZ needs to play a clearer role in the strategic process and in funding to achieve outcomes as well as to oversee project scope. \u2026 Land Transport NZ needs to be satisfied that projects are still delivering value for money.\u201D But there is more: \u201CThe manner in which Land Transport NZ is involved in overall project decisions, where major scope change and costs are involved, should be reviewed. \u2026 The Advisory Group believes the current system used by Land Transport NZ can be improved.\u201D It states: \u201Cit is considered appropriate that a review is undertaken of the competencies required of the respective boards\u201D of Transit and Land Transport New Zealand \u201Cincluding the appropriateness of dual membership of the Land Transport NZ and Transit NZ Boards.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis has probably been the most damning report that has come out on a Minister this year, and there have been other reports on other Ministers who have failed to succeed in their portfolios. Essentially, when a ministerial advisory group on roading costs can come out and present a report that says there are fundamental problems in the way that this department is carrying on its business, then we have a major problem\u2014a major problem that this Minister has to follow up in the next-steps review that is coming out soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Minister will be well aware that this department is not performing at the level it should be. We are not getting the value for money that we are putting into Land Transport New Zealand, simply because of the inadequacies of this department, and also of the governance that this Government should hold over this department. It is up to the Minister and the Government to run this department in a way that delivers the outcomes that people expect from that money. It is fine for Government Ministers to go around the country saying the Government is putting more money into Land Transport New Zealand, but we are not seeing the outcomes\u2014we are not seeing the delivery of that money. We are seeing a system that is not working, and a Minister who is sitting there knowing that it is not working and who is not making the changes to get value for money. How can this Government\u2019s Ministers stand up in front of New Zealanders and say they are putting more money into land transport, when they are not getting the outcomes because the system is not working. They need to get out there and devise a better way of doing this, so that we do get the outcomes that are commensurate with the money being put in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAnother example is one the Greens have just raised\u2014that of public transport and electrification. Today we heard the Prime Minister say that it is a matter of not if but when. Well, when is it going to be? When will the people of Auckland know that they can catch a train because it has not been stopped through signalling faults or people not having made decisions about whether trains will run on diesel or electricity? When will those decisions be made, so that Auckland councils will have the ability to make decisions for funding in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222239aa7d5a604d02aeb32ad539cc62ad\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: I just point something out to the member. I was not aware until a minute ago that Transit\u2019s report has not actually been reported back. So it should not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb1be79a85f64ece80a6dba576f70e0b\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, we were not talking about Transit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc19559837124592a896e66c7f081c66\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you were. The only thing is Land Transport New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022208824bd18e3453c9a71e81e3ccd90b6\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is what I quoted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95e70e8a6384302ba841d3818066806\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014so it is Land Transport. I call Keith Locke, but I remind members again that Transit New Zealand has not been reported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002225319624c3ff42f9bf2d18728a26743f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225319624c3ff42f9bf2d18728a26743f\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I was talking about the financial assistance rate whereby Land Transport New Zealand fully funds State highways, but local bodies have to scratch up, normally, 50 percent of the cost of public transport infrastructure, such as in Auckland in terms of rail developments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt was good to read more recently that there seems to have been some change in relation to Wellington, where Land Transport New Zealand has agreed to fund rail improvements there to 90 percent. I hope that will be transferred to Auckland, because today I received a petition from 3,755 Aucklanders who want a timetable for the electrification of rail, and funding from the Government to achieve that. That is the demand from Aucklanders for a decent rail backbone to the public transport system and for substantial expenditure from Land Transport New Zealand on infrastructural development. The public is on board\u2014that is what the petitioners found. Everywhere they went people supported public transport and wanted to sign that rail petition. But it has taken a while to shift the Government and Land Transport New Zealand around in terms of where they direct their funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is all this talk about the Auckland western ring route and how important that is when even a few kilometres of that would take a billion dollars, and that money would be better spent in the meantime on public transport. That is what Aucklanders are really about. An officials report on Auckland transport that came out a couple of weeks ago\u2014from national officials, such as from the Ministry of Transport, and from local body officials, etc\u2014said that 40 percent of the benefit of new public transport spending goes to car users in reduced congestion. I think that all of our plans have to take in the two critical new developments\u2014that is, firstly, the move towards peak oil, where oil will get very expensive and people will not be able to use private cars nearly as much. They will be forced into public transport and we want that infrastructure there for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other thing, of course, is global warming, where 40 percent of our emissions are coming out of transport and we have to reduce those. Obviously, the best way to do that is to go for public transport, particularly electrification, if that electrification is provided by sustainable energy sources and not fossil fuels. I think the public is much more aware of that, and the Government and Land Transport New Zealand need to get much more on board with the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is true that in the report things are happening, like bus lanes, but when we look at the figure for bus lanes we see that 16 kilometres of bus lanes have been provided over the year. In Auckland we need lots and lots of bus lanes, because one of the things that makes public transport really attractive is if it is fast, and faster then commuting by car. We do have some signs of that in Auckland, down Dominion Road and \u014Cnewa Road, where the buses actually get there quicker than the cars. We need lots more bus lanes and much more funding by Land Transport New Zealand for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E I think there really needs to be a whole turn-round in the thinking in this Parliament\u2014in the Government in particular\u2014to say that instead of spending, as this report shows, $1,700 million on land transport and only $209 million of that on public transport, the spending has to be turned towards a much higher proportion for public transport, so that we can really go forward as a nation in this era of global warming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc72deea8b7c446ba3e2d7e93850e7ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc72deea8b7c446ba3e2d7e93850e7ef\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank both members who have spoken on the financial review of Land Transport New Zealand. Perhaps those who were listening would be interested to know that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee reported back to this Parliament that the committee had no matters to bring to the attention of the House. It is rather interesting tonight to note that when members of the select committee had an opportunity to bring matters to the attention of this House, they did not take that opportunity; the select committee decided not to bring any matters to Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBut let us address some of the issues that were raised. Can I say first off to Keith Locke that I agree with him wholeheartedly when it comes to investment into passenger transport. But in my view and in the view of the Government there has to be a balance between roads and public transport. We have not had that. It is fair to say that over many years the balance was very much tipped towards roading in New Zealand and away from other modes of transport\u2014passenger transport, the use of coastal shipping, rail, and so on. The Government has set out first of all to address the deficit that existed not only in investment into roading but also in investment into passenger transport. I remind the member that right throughout the 1990s passenger transport funding for the whole of New Zealand was frozen at $40 million per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThat is the public transport legacy of a National Government. This Government has taken seriously the need to invest. In terms of the funding from Land Transport New Zealand, we have seen a huge increase in the money going into public transport, not only in percentage terms but in total terms\u2014closer to $400 million than $40 million. In looking at passenger transport, one has to include the funding that this Government has put into rail. This funding for rail does not come from Land Transport New Zealand; it is not included in the National Land Transport Programme. So the $600 million that this Government is investing into Auckland rail alone is not included in the National Land Transport Programme but is a very important part of the Government\u2019s commitment to passenger transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI agree with the member around, particularly, the issue of travel plans, and around things like walking, school buses, cycleways, and walkways. But I need to say that although this Government has moved so that any new roads, including the inner city bypass in Wellington, must include cycleways, we are faced with the issue of including cycleways on existing roads. It is much harder to retrofit cycleways on existing roads, as anyone who has been involved will know. But, as the member pointed out, there is an approach to increase cycleways and walkways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIn terms of electrification, which the member raised, it has been made clear by the Government that electrification of rail in Auckland is very much on the Government\u2019s agenda. However, it is not part of Land Transport New Zealand. Any decision on funding of electrification of rail in Auckland will not come out of the National Land Transport Programme. It will come out of the vote related to the State-owned enterprise ONTRACK. So that is not part of this debate tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett spoke and he was a very confused member indeed. The only issue he could raise was the ministerial advisory group\u2019s report to the Minister. Of course, the previous Minister of Transport was the person who called for the report. Such is the openness of this Government that we said we wanted the advisory group to look at roading construction in New Zealand and what drives the costs. We wanted the group to tell us how it is working and to give us some advice. I accept, as the new Minister of Transport, that advice. But the group was talking about the actions of Transit New Zealand. In fact, the examples it set out are examples from Transit not Land Transport New Zealand. So although the member said he was talking about Land Transport New Zealand, which funds, of course, Transit\u2014so I suppose one could say there was some link\u2014the major part of the group\u2019s report relates to the 10 projects that Transit funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ce661b5670475f97ea5fda2d997fec\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I would like to table a copy of the ministerial advisory group\u2019s report, which clearly states Land Transport New Zealand was one of the ones that was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cd33b7a46c44e0a95e36a2e7f99509e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. The member knows that he should not interrupt anyone\u2019s speech for that. He should table that at the end of the speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4afd46de784483b6ce57335aaa4df8\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. What he is trying to do is to cover up his confusion. His one line of attack was one report\u2014a report that this Government has accepted in terms of its recommendations. The National Government never listened to advice. It did not invest in either passenger transport or roads, and it deprived the transport sector year in, year out. This Government is serious about building infrastructure in this country; whether it is roads, passenger transport, hospitals, police stations, whatever, we are committed to it. That member needs to take a grip, do a bit more reading, and not stick on one report that he has read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere are many other reports, including the Next Steps review. I have undertaken to follow up not only the ministerial advisory group\u2019s report but the Cabinet committee on Government expenditure and administration reviews carried out by my very good colleague Trevor Mallard. The Government is serious about getting the best value for money we can out of taxpayers\u2019 dollars, and we will do that. We will continue to invest in passenger transport, and I look forward to the support of the Greens for legislation that makes it much easier to contract for passenger transport. It will be in this House very soon. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe chirpy member is David Bennett, who is from Hamilton East, an area that benefited from this Government\u2019s putting money into the Waikato, which had been deprived for decades under the National Government. When he got the money he said it was not enough. What did \u201CBob the Builder\u201D from Tauranga say? He said it was fantastic and that people there loved the amount of money the Government had put into the Bay of Plenty. I ask Mr Bennett to thank the Government for that money, because he would not have got it from his colleagues. I ask him to have a look at what happened to the Waikato because his party would not invest into passenger transport or roads in his own region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI say to members that this Government is serious about transport. Land Transport New Zealand as a Crown entity can always do better, and certainly in the Next Steps review we will look at how we can improve not only its performance but that of Transit, the Ministry of Transport, and other agencies that work with them. I say to members that they can be assured that the Government looks for value for money, we look to invest, and we look to get the best out of the money that taxpayers put in for all of New Zealand, not just one part of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022833817e0349f4a98a30fb5559089f38a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022833817e0349f4a98a30fb5559089f38a\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. The Minister of Transport made some comments there that were not the case. The Waikato\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afb4b37affda4b078cf59ea15f2fa4af\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Please be seated. The member\u2014[Interruption] I am on my feet, ruling on a point of order. I say to the member that is a debating point, which I am sure he knows very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002298372a9d582c4360905f1f0ec5e94ace\u0022\u003EAgriQuality Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00223f81498f71274d88b648579f26db007e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f81498f71274d88b648579f26db007e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is with pleasure that I rise to make some comments on the financial review of AgriQuality Ltd for this particular financial year. I will start by commenting on the proposed merger that the Hon Mr Mallard suddenly announced towards the end of the last parliamentary sitting concerning AgriQuality and Asure. That issue has been ongoing for a number of years. The possibility of merging AgriQuality and Asure has been raised at the Primary Production Committee for about the last 3 years and has been noted in its annual reports. What I find incredible about Mr Mallard\u2019s announcement\u2014and I look forward to his elaborating on this\u2014is that the legislation does not enforce the merger of the two entities. The legislation that Mr Mallard is proposing will allow the merger to occur if, subsequent to passing the legislation, a cost-benefit analysis suggests that a merger is a good idea. It just seems to me to be a very strange thing, particularly given the history associated with the proposed merger, that any Government would rush through legislation, under a very, very tight time frame, that does not ensure the merger but allows one to happen, and then the Minister proceeds to do the cost-benefit analysis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI sat in on the Commerce Committee last week when it was hearing submissions on this issue, and it became clear that consultation has been occurring with the unions over a long period of time about this proposed merger, but that the meat industry itself has not been consulted. What is more concerning to me, when I look at the financial review\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bcec256bf274870beeb7eacaac8733f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. The member is referring to a matter that is currently before the select committee and has not been reported on. It is not the subject of this debate. I request that you ask him to come back to the review, and also that he not breach privilege by reporting matters to the Committee before the appropriate time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5b4c95912b4e42bf31690aba1df1e2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may not realise it, but this is a debate on the 2005-06 financial review of AgriQuality, and on page 4 of that review is a heading \u201CMerger of AgriQuality and Asure\u201D. I think it would be a very strange situation if the Minister were to suggest that we are not allowed to refer to what the Primary Production Committee specifically commented on in the financial review. We need that to be clarified, I agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a5f460abfe54e65a9aab932f60e196c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member may do that. But the Minister was clear\u2014and I certainly thought I heard this too\u2014that you were speaking to the bill that is currently before the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b11edb298f6419f8672dff1a8705bbd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d54ff1656be4b4c9dc10fb1d4bf76e2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member did not do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7ce105c342c4a58bd9d984d52c932fe\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c5f936ffa4f4b3d85c4ec2f91411e87\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Please continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6a503cf263d48f8a8a109654a5a49c0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: What I am talking about, with permission, is the financial review for 2005-06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e845a0db6b44b0a6082306a0a52791\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but you did not refer to the review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a40ca1092fc040d3b91f8d1e5b16895c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I have been talking to the financial review and the select committee report. The Primary Production Committee made specific mention of this issue in its report. It is now before Parliament, and I have every right to discuss it. The issue may be embarrassing to the Minister, but that does not stop me talking about it. It does not stop the fact that the select committee made special reference to it in its report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f991a073607f47738f817906d498aa71\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Keep going!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269729680017f41468ee50447c9d0aa16\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for the opportunity to talk to the financial review. As I was saying, in the select committee over the past 2 or 3 years we have expressed concern about this merger. We went so far in this select committee report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222705c2c2290e4111af0460c9ca8bba85\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: How could you do that? It wasn\u2019t on the agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223909d4299a0a43d88a3ba41ec5580101\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: If we go back and look at the two previous financial reports, we see it is interesting that the committee as a whole was concerned about the proposed merger. This time I do agree that we modified the report and used the words \u201CSome of us are concerned\u201D. In other words, there has been a road to Damascus experience for Dr Choudhary, who in previous years had been concerned about the proposal, but who has been beaten about by Mr Mallard and suddenly had to change his position and appear less concerned than he had been in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe reason I raise this issue is that we have examined, over a long period of time, AgriQuality, and its attitude towards the select committee and its cooperation with the committee is something that has taken a long time to develop. Asure, however, is an organisation that delivers with total efficiency. It has cooperated with the select committee process every year that we have examined it. I would hate to see the rushed merger proposed by the Hon Mr Mallard mean that suddenly we have a change in attitude by the newly merged entity towards the process before the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe have a very important role at the select committee to examine the financial performance of these entities, and when we examine the financial performance of AgriQuality, particularly in the last financial year, we find it has not lived up to expectations. Its revenue is down considerably in this particular year, and I do wonder whether one of the reasons why Mr Mallard has rushed the idea of a merger into Parliament is that he is not prepared to see the financial performance of AgriQuality come under the scrutiny that it has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de92df68ded14d9396b194715377d93f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Oh dear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299054dd9fc95415da5a0e71e7f92645d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard says: \u201COh dear!\u201D. He may be doing the merger for one other reason: to satisfy the Public Service Association (PSA)\u2014his union mates. It is interesting that in the very week that he rushed the bill off to a select committee, the Government suddenly fronted up with $850,000 to pay back the money it had ripped off the taxpayer. So Mr Mallard may well say: \u201COh dear!\u201D, and now do a bit of frowning when there is a connection made between this move to satisfy the PSA and the sudden appearance of $850,000 to pay back the ripped-off taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a010ad5c572a483c882ce82a626cff30\u0022\u003ELandcorp Farming Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00222b6c749c1ff941e8ae4ba630c0af6828\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b6c749c1ff941e8ae4ba630c0af6828\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Just for the sake of the Minister in the chair, Trevor Mallard, I assure him that I am talking about the financial review of Landcorp of 2005-06. I can say at the outset that this, again, was another very disappointing examination for the Primary Production Committee. It was disappointing because when we actually got through the financial performance of this particular entity, it left us with a real sense of disappointment. We have an entity here with a value of somewhat over $1.2 billion, and when we delved through the financial accounts of Landcorp, we were surprised and disappointed to note that in fact the farming profit from this very large entity was only $18 million. When we looked further at that figure, we noted that $12 million of that\u2014two-thirds of the farming profit\u2014actually came from the sell down of some Fonterra shares. In other words, I guess the true, attributable farm profit from an entity worth $1.2 billion is somewhere around $6 million. That is a totally unsatisfactory situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead1c9c44b634f85a812fc43f9d6cff0\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Almost as good as the member\u2019s farm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b16a6cbfddb4416af4b646d55f5e5c4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. If I managed to farm like Landcorp, I do not think I would be farming for much longer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe point that I do want to make is that although this performance is very, very disappointing, I would hope that Mr Mallard and Mr Darren Hughes take note that it is an indication of the financial pressure that most of rural New Zealand is under. Darren Hughes may not care to be sympathetic to the sheep farmers who are now facing financial returns of 25 percent less than they had a year ago, but in a situation when one\u2019s income is down by 25 percent and one now has massively increased costs\u2014many of them brought about by Government legislation\u2014the situation is not very pleasant, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022407b5e5bd4c649b4a231e995c1281c3d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What did the dairy farmers do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ca64b6f7124975af730a375cfe885e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the dairy farmers have a little more to be happy about, but not much. The payout has been consistently\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264173266cd3d446bb5c2440dc2641be2\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Never happy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022823db912ec02410ab8a865d8d8c788b3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member invested his own money\u2014if he ever happened to make any\u2014into a situation, it is not unfair to expect a reasonable return. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBut I want to make a couple of comments on the running of Landcorp, and they are to assure the Committee tonight that it is a well-run organisation. But when we consider the advantage that it should have, for the scale of its operation and its size, it should be able to do substantially better. I will give two examples for the benefit of Darren Hughes, because he is not well versed in these agricultural matters\u2014but he will not be there as the member for Otaki for much longer; we are assured of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EOne thing we have, with an organisation the size of Landcorp, is the advantage of purchasing tractors, trucks, etc. very judiciously, and it has the advantage of selling very advantageously. In fact, there has been quite a lot of angst down in areas like Te \u0100nau, where Landcorp has certainly been in the position of getting a higher return from PPCS, the farming cooperative, than other farmers do. So we would think that by amalgamating those benefits of better purchasing power and better selling power, Landcorp would be able to manage a far better profit than it did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ELandcorp is still New Zealand\u2019s largest farming concern, and another thing that the select committee noted with huge disappointment was that as New Zealand\u2019s biggest farmer, it has no plans at all around climate change. We asked Landcorp about that quite specifically, and the answer came back from the new chair of Landcorp\u2014the previous Minister of Agriculture, Jim Sutton\u2014that those plans for climate change are still being developed. It is a little like the Government, which rushed off and signed the Kyoto Protocol. When we ask the Government what its policy is, the answer is that it is still being developed. It is also worth noting, of course, while we are talking about climate change, that the biggest risk New Zealand faces is the huge amount of deforestation that is occurring at the moment. Who is the biggest deforester at the moment? It is one Landcorp Farming, with 22,000 or 23,000 hectares of central North Island land being taken out of trees, as we speak, to be converted to dairy farming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26f01bfcf024528bcf2d672a6ee100d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Do they own it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022635d09f30b8f465b931b8c69fa6dbf0d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No, Landcorp does not. It leases it on a long-term arrangement, but who is actually doing the development? It is the Landcorp Farming operation. And for the Minister to sit in his chair and think that he is not responsible because the underlying title of the land is owned by Adrian Burr\u2014well, it just defies belief. Nobody else in this country believes that the Minister is not responsible because Landcorp does not own the land. The land has been leased under an agreement; I think it is a 40-year lease. Landcorp is the one that is chopping the trees down, it is the one putting the pasture in, and it is the one stocking it with cows. All of that means that our ability to meet our Kyoto Protocol commitments becomes harder and harder\u2014and Landcorp is part of the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBut I will conclude by saying that the financial performance of Landcorp was not satisfactory. It should be an indication to every member of the Labour Government that that is the pressure rural New Zealand is under.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022666292ffdc57461cbef212fe65e1b933\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022666292ffdc57461cbef212fe65e1b933\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki):\u003C/span\u003E What an extraordinary contribution that was, from somebody who was once a National Minister in a Government that did not even have a Minister of Agriculture. David Carter used to be at the height of his political career 7\u00BD years ago. He was the Associate Minister of Food, Fibre, Biosecurity and Border Control. That was the flash name the previous National Government gave to the agriculture portfolio way back then. That is how much the National Party in Government cares about the rural sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219d0f0b19de745138546649732ec3fae\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: You haven\u2019t got one, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217ce067bfff74140b42865f49e7e2bce\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: We have as our Minister of Agriculture in this Government the man who sits at No. 3 in Cabinet and leads the party that the Labour Party is in coalition with. That is how seriously we take the portfolio. We call it \u201Cagriculture\u201D, because that is what it is. We do not come up with flash, management-speak, guru kinds of names as the National Government did. Whenever the Tories get close to power, they get so subsumed by it that they go for all these crazy kinds of names. But that was the height of David Carter\u2019s career\u2014Associate Minister of Food, Fibre, Biosecurity and Border Control; a portfolio that his good mate Mrs Shipley put him in charge of after he had been the junior whip and had ratted on Jim Bolger. I am not sure whether he turned up at the conference over the weekend and mentioned that, but that is exactly what he had to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe other thing Mr Carter did not mention was the National Party policy on Landcorp farms. Here we are, debating the financial review of that entity in the previous financial year, and what he does not have the audacity to tell the Committee is that the National Party went to the polls wanting to sell all those farms that are owned by New Zealand. National had a privatisation policy in that regard, but it did not bother saying any of that. Those farms were going to be gone by milking time under Don Brash, and I want to know right now whether the National Party has changed its policy. But, of course, there was not a word on policy, because those members tell people only what they want them to hear. Those members cannot come up with anything at all apart from criticise, whinge, and moan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E Mr Carter mentioned the plight that a number of sheep farmers are facing. Of course those are genuine and real concerns. But while he was slagging off Labour for that, did he offer any solution at all to the way Landcorp\u2019s financial operations could have taken place that might have made a difference in that regard? There was not a word\u2014and Labour says it is the serious party for rural New Zealand. Rural New Zealand towns and rural New Zealand villages and areas are much better off under the Labour-led Government than they were previously. Good times are happening around the place, which were not happening previously, with regard to all of the indicators we look at\u2014particularly unemployment, which has fallen through the floorboards. That is why Landcorp plays a role in owning farms in rural communities and rural areas that are part of the local economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI am proud that the Landcorp farms in the Otaki electorate are owned by the Government. They make a fantastic contribution to the local area. The National Party wants to sell them. It wants to hock them all off, around Whirokino and all of that area, and that goes with the National Party\u2019s responsibility. We stood at the last election and told those members that they were doing the wrong thing. I am proud of that. I am proud of the way the Labour Party has made sure we have retained a commitment there. If the National Party wants to promise to sell off and privatise farms all around the place, why is it going to do that? What is the great benefit from doing that? David Carter did not mention it at all. He had nothing to say about that. Having a Minister for Food, Fibre, Biosecurity and Border Control, in a previous epoch of New Zealand politics, is about as serious as National ever got about agriculture. Landcorp has done a great job, it has a fantastic chairman, and I am sure that with the active support of its Minister, Landcorp will continue to make a contribution to rural New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226dc286ca6ad44a0088ce858098ea51f8\u0022\u003EMeridian Energy Limited\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac1b2c1f3fe74e599ace325ee1aa7f02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac1b2c1f3fe74e599ace325ee1aa7f02\u0022\u003EGORDON COPELAND (United Future):\u003C/span\u003E Meridian Energy is a great New Zealand company of world-class expertise in the electricity generation and retailing sector. It has an outstanding understanding of sustainability, and I think it gives a lead not only to State-owned enterprises but also to private sector companies in the practical application of sustainability principles. It also has a world-class capability for renewable electricity generation, especially hydro and wind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EFrom the view of the Government and the taxpayers, however, the news gets even better. During the year under review, the year ended 30 June 2006, Meridian paid a dividend to the Crown of no less than $879.4 million. I would imagine that that is an all-time record for any New Zealand company in history. If that was not enough, it paid a further $300 million in October 2006. That is a total of $1,179.4 million in a period of just 16 months. The people of Auckland should be very grateful for that because, as we know, about $650 million of that amount was put aside by the Government for roading in Auckland. So those are very considerable achievements by Meridian, which all of us should celebrate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EBut it goes further. Meridian is, to my knowledge, the first electricity generator to become officially certified as carbon neutral. That has been done through a very robust process. So one of the largest companies in the country is now officially carbon neutral\u2014a goal that the Prime Minister has for New Zealand, and a goal that is achievable, in my view, if we get it right, in about 25 to 30 years from now. Meridian is already there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EAlso of great interest, particularly to the elderly\u2014and I know that this is the No. 1 priority now for Grey Power\u2014is that Meridian as a company limited its price increases in the year under review to about the rate of inflation, or about 3.5 percent. I would like it to be less. The elderly would like it to be less. But, nevertheless, Meridian again stands out from the crowd in the way that it has been able to control its prices over that period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EHowever, we should not take the continuation of the success of Meridian for granted. Some serious issues confront the company at this stage in relation to the wind generation of electricity. Wind generation of electricity is great for sustainability, because it is perpetually renewable, it is totally free, and New Zealand happens to be one of the windiest spots on the planet. It is also very, very positive for climate change policy\u2014something that we all want. However, the Resource Management Act is providing some problems for Meridian in getting on with wind farm development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EMeridian actually received consent for Project West Wind, the wind farm in M\u0101kara, in December 2005. We are now into May 2007, and that project is still stuck in the Environment Court. I would estimate that that delay has now cost Meridian about $100 million. At the time the Commerce Committee reported back to the House it was $80 million, but since then the New Zealand dollar has gone up to an all-time record high, which has increased the cost for the wind generator and the windmills themselves enormously. The economics of this very, very worthwhile project has now jeopardised its actually going ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EWhen I say \u201Cworthwhile\u201D, I would ask whether members can imagine anything more perfect than using a free, perpetually renewable source of energy right on the doorstep of New Zealand\u2019s capital city that will produce in and of itself enough electricity for all the homes of Wellington, the Hutt Valley, and Porirua City. It is right on our doorstep. Transmission losses are zero. It is possibly the most phenomenally well-placed energy source we could come up with, and it has now been delayed for too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EI know that Meridian has expressed concern to the Government that the Resource Management Act 1991 does not contain clear national policy statements for specific outcomes and that, therefore, it needs to be looked at with a view to making sure these large wind projects are able to go ahead. I recently asked David Parker, the Minister of Energy and Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues, whether the delay would jeopardise this project. His answer was in the negative, but I have my doubts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003EReport noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002255eb6fc260f74d00b7a3c984b3ff0a75\u0022\u003ECanterbury District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002202100429ca1845bc8760b3d62c01ff93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202100429ca1845bc8760b3d62c01ff93\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E One evening last month a 25-year-old man presented, with his family members, at the emergency department of Christchurch Hospital. He was in considerable agony and pain as a result of an injury he had sustained. He was turned away by the district health board employees at the emergency department in Christchurch Hospital, only to die 12 hours later. Another young man presented at Christchurch Hospital\u2019s emergency department last week in considerable groin pain. He was in agony\u2014a 23-year-old man crying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d2d603f071440e783e1c7ded6724a94\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Screaming in pain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c74ec2fc767404698f8daef72d99a3e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: He was screaming. He waited for hours to be seen and was turned away, only to be admitted by ambulance to that very same emergency department 2 days later. That is the reason why more and more stories are surfacing in the media about what is happening at Christchurch Hospital and about its inability to provide the sort of quality standard of care that we would expect in our hospitals for our people in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe Government crows about the $4 billion a year extra it has put into the health budget, but what about the quality of the service that that money is producing? The Minister Pete Hodgson stood up in the Chamber today and said that the service is improving all the time. He should tell that to the partner of the 25-year-old man who is now dead. He should tell that to the family of the 82-year-old man who was given the wrong medication at Auckland Hospital because of an administrative blunder. The Minister should tell that man\u2019s family members that the health system is improving all the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200705018f60ab6952d14ab7b0529a9665a64072000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"