"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022252448c768ab4d849f57d37cb3965b40\u0022\u003EThursday, 3 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002294ecf7b4d3a64fcf9d4a4101dfd9e549\u0022\u003EThursday, 3 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4400aee5edd413db6eca3b8c34ceb6c\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b68857f0284462ca1f785aeb36dd3c9\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00221fa32ef4e75649c1b55d738cd4beabc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fa32ef4e75649c1b55d738cd4beabc1\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week in the House priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Social Security Amendment Bill, the Arbitration Amendment Bill, the Wills Bill, the Succession (Homicide) Bill, the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill, and the remainder of the debate on the performance and current operations of Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises. Priority will also be given to the first readings of the Education (Tertiary Reform) Amendment Bill and the International Finance Agreements Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002225a7832539a245af8d5b251eacdb0fac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225a7832539a245af8d5b251eacdb0fac\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E If the House is to take the information given to it today by the Deputy Leader of the House as being correct, then we would expect by the end of next week to be down to an Order Paper of perhaps eight items, if we include the five Government notices of motion on the Order Paper. I am wondering whether the Deputy Leader of the House may in fact tell us whether the Government intends at any point shutting up shop and having a bit of an extended break, after the last extended break, in order that Parliament might accumulate some work to do and the Government may be able to create some semblance of actually governing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u00224b9d8e872e2e45f58d0315feb8a77527\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b9d8e872e2e45f58d0315feb8a77527\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the shadow Leader of the House\u2019s compliment to the Government on the effectiveness of its conducting of the House\u2019s business. I can only say to the member that there will be plenty for the Opposition to chew on, following a very full Budget in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a613a66153a4e5e90d625838f12f8a9\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c9ead62811f4bd586893467b600bb14\u0022\u003EQuestions for Written Answer\u2014Overdue Answers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00229d75d2f2719d497d98c1db75b24b7267\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d75d2f2719d497d98c1db75b24b7267\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Before the last adjournment I raised an issue in the House about overdue written questions. The Leader of the House undertook to take up the matter. Since that time I can report that\u2014and I asked you about this\u2014I have had 49 questions answered this week by the Minister for Social Development and Employment, Mr Benson-Pope. Nine of those questions were 6 weeks overdue, three were 5 weeks overdue, and the list goes on. But what I am asking is whether it is satisfactory after that length of time to have an answer that states: \u201CI will provide the member with an answer to her question shortly.\u201D That was the answer to 49 questions. In addition, I have 22 questions remaining that are overdue\u201410 of those are 6 weeks overdue, and three are 5 weeks overdue. As for the questions that have been answered in that non-answer way, I now have to re-lodge them, so we will have yet further information going through the Clerk\u2019s Office. It absolutely brings the House into disrepute when a Minister is not taking this job seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022 data-id=\u002216fd0e2fb5fb4265b531831de6e84645\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216fd0e2fb5fb4265b531831de6e84645\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I have spoken to the Minister about the number of questions that are out of time. I understand that his office is in fact attending to that urgently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e49de51ca0244a9b74509d826d05b8b\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d13958e11cc74a4da357f8cd4acf0c1d\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286448d4d74ba4e5ebb75842da0047927\u0022\u003EBudget 2007\u2014Reserve Bank Discussions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ffb6cd3922243a8ba068830d96fd712\u0022\u003E1. Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has he discussed his forthcoming Budget with the Reserve Bank; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002226877e7481a54faa820a5f8dfb7f5acf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226877e7481a54faa820a5f8dfb7f5acf\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Associate Minister of Finance) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Finance: Madam Speaker\u2014[Interruption] When they have finished over there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ccc43ef84f24a2da1278227af5378cc\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, order please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf0094e08ce422f90b885fa5276f841\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not the Minister\u2019s normal practice to brief the Reserve Bank on the contents of the Budget. However, as always, Treasury has discussed the Budget\u2019s fiscal parameters with the bank, and it was able to assure the bank that the fiscal stimulus in the current year is substantially less than was forecast in the half-yearly update, and that for the next 2 years it is roughly the same as was forecast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228153e96ca9e748c6b7ca2dfe0b68b79b\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister therefore seen the Reserve Bank\u2019s published advice that his spending plans over the next few years are causing problems for monetary policy; if he will not take that advice, why would he take advice on monetary policy from the Finance and Expenditure Committee, whose expertise is considerably less than that of the Reserve Bank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d9f5a159a8d445d995a199038ce66d6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, the Governor of the Reserve Bank has pointed to a number of factors that he believes are responsible for the level of inflation. When that member asked the Governor of the Reserve Bank in the select committee to name the most important factor, he said it was housing. Housing was the very issue that the Governor of the Reserve Bank wanted to discuss with Mr Key and Mr English, along with Mr Mallard and Dr Cullen, but, of course, those talks were sabotaged by Mr English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e79218dcfe64b9ca0494019afd9b08e\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister inform the House whether a common currency with Australia will be announced in this year\u2019s Budget; if not, can he inform the House of any reports to this effect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b24ace7bf9ee4c028af4056b1097219d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, I cannot predict what will be in this year\u2019s Budget, but I would not be letting any secrets out by saying that this Government has rejected the concept of a common currency with Australia, as proposed by John Key. If one really wanted to put our exporters under pressure, one would align New Zealand\u2019s currency by adopting the Australian currency, which is mineral driven. That would put our exporters into a much worse position than they are in\u2014but, then, what would Mr Key know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c979f01ee7cb4816b4ea1579ec93b0c2\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has the Minister seen calling for a looser fiscal position, which would put more pressure on monetary policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525327d02b8e4062abf2f51e2b8d8782\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the Opposition spokesperson on finance, Mr English, keeps calling for a tighter fiscal position, but every day in this House, and every day outside this House, we hear National Party spokespeople calling for more expenditure. Yesterday Mr Ryall asked us to train another 80 to 100 doctors a year. Today Mr Key is out there saying that the Government should be putting more money into broadband. It seems that Bill English does not talk to his colleagues, because they are saying mutually inconsistent things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d4464c7f4a42d6af9889f8fef41c30\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister trying to give the impression that monetary policy can be run differently, when he has had 8 years of advice from Treasury and the Reserve Bank and two major reviews of monetary policy by world experts, and he himself has not proposed any particular change to the framework but persists in giving the impression that it could all be done differently from how it is done if only I had agreed to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a5e39bd7e1b4edcbe00fcc43da263ff\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, this Government has run a very tight fiscal position. If the member who asked the question recalls the select committee hearing, he will know that Dr Bollard said he had not seen a need to intervene through most of the period. What amazes me is that although this Government has run big surpluses, last year we had John Key saying we should put $11 billion of the tax surplus back into the economy, which is absolutely the opposite of what Mr English, the co-leader\u2014or is it the competing leader\u2014is saying. The National Party just cannot get its position together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220207f409f9f4b93bad1eae4b238be43\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind members that when they answer questions they should address the question, and not introduce any superfluous comments of a personal nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022262f73a2c9b34bfeb22b658323aa6e18\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: What sort of claim can the Minister make to being a manager of the economy, when his response to the severe pressure on some exporters is to do nothing himself, blame the Opposition, and send the problem to a committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221727e600a1404b4f92ab147836b90c90\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I totally disagree with the allegation made by that member. If he reads the Minister of Finance\u2019s speech to the manufacturers in Canterbury today, he will see just that. This Minister of Finance has run a very sensible policy, including policy in areas that will assist in the growth of the economy\u2014like the superannuation scheme, which was opposed by the National Party until last year, and like KiwiSaver, which was opposed by the Opposition when it was introduced in legislation last year. But I suspect that those members will come around on both of those issues, because they know that that is the exact direction in which economic policy should be going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ba6fde7e-93f4-4636-9ce2-02c07007973a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283b1006efc234c39a18e04a67f93493d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Swain\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Finance and Expenditure Committee is made up of senior, intelligent, and capable members whose intelligence knows no bounds, and that if there is one committee of this House that could look seriously and intelligently into this matter, that committee would be it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251b5c9873b474c548d587dc6020ae416\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I partially agree with the first statement. On the second statement I think that it is sensible, if we are looking at adopting a position that all members in all parties in this House can contribute to, to hold such an inquiry, so that some of the issues that some members in the House are too scared to address\u2014or run a mile from, after agreeing to discuss them\u2014can be discussed rationally. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5944f621a534d02bac5838a379089b8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have asked members, including those who made the interjections that I heard\u2014although I did not interrupt the answer\u2014not to make comments of a personal nature or of abuse across the Chamber. Obviously, members are entitled to interject and intervene, but could they please cut out the personal comments that have become, unfortunately, a little too common.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208aad527dcdd4cd683e9dcd213ba6163\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Instead of further reviews, committees, and crocodile tears, can the Minister tell the House and the public one serious proposition he has made for changing the monetary policy framework?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022536ac4684ded4d068a2feb57dccfae26\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has sought to discuss\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b01545512bc54e9c9b0b55b4b09797e9\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: No, tell us one proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d1697b4a89943c79772ce8aeefa121e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is addressing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e96620e7431f497691c1fc52c0291c1a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I am answering the member\u2019s question, if he shows a little patience. What the Minister has done, of course, is to sit down with other members of the House\u2014including that member\u2014to discuss some of the options that have been put up by the Reserve Bank. It was interesting that John Key responded very positively to that. It was regrettable that that member did not do so. I would refer the member to seven successive Budgets that have seen this country have a higher level of growth than almost any other country in the OECD, to a policy that has seen the creation of 330,000 jobs, and to a policy that has seen 70,000 kids taken out of poverty. All of those things are excellent examples of what the Minister of Finance has done to promote an economy that supports a fair and decent social system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b7839bc70f4cc6ac7898312566ac84\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Does that answer mean that the Minister of Finance, after 8 years of advice and two major reviews of monetary policy carried out by world experts, does not have one single proposition to change monetary policy that can be taken seriously; if he does not have one single change, why should the Finance and Expenditure Committee waste months on coming up with something that he will ignore, anyway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244508afba20e40c2b198330b10e56845\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of international reports, I know that that member has embraced the OECD report and its propositions that GST should be increased and that the age of eligibility for superannuation should be increased. But I can assure the member that this Government does not intend to do either of those two things\u2014unlike what that member is promoting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd2dde3615746a892797433947b6932\u0022\u003EHon Bill English\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s pathetic political responses to serious issues, can he tell the House what sort of mess the Government is in when the Prime Minister told the Trans Tasman newsletter last week: \u201CThis will be a big macroeconomic Budget with major initiatives on business, including tax credits for export development and R and D.\u201D, and today, right at the end of the Budget process, Dr Cullen has announced that he has ditched one of those major initiatives\u2014namely, the tax credits for business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203c4f6e1661b444bb489772a9f6634b2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: What the Minister has said is that there will be in this Budget approximately $1 billion in business tax cuts, through one form or another. That is something I warmly applaud, in terms of encouraging investment and further growth. I am particularly disappointed that that member has said he opposes such cuts, but let me say this. The member alleges a crisis in policy. This is the sort of crisis we have. We have company tax returns that grew on average by about 20 percent a year through much of this term. More Kiwis than ever before are in jobs\u20142.1 million; there are 330,000 extra jobs. We have job growth and rising incomes, and we have better public finances than in practically any other OECD country. Those are the facts. The allegations made by the member are quite wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022262b50174072453695c669e27bb218f1\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister followed Helen Clark\u2019s example and discussed the forthcoming Budget with John Key, as, after all, these days it is hard to see the difference between National and Labour on policy, and who knows, he might get National\u2019s vote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4a7bbce25594d14abe9423b816d14d9\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: The short answer is no, and the longer answer is that it is amazing how the right-wing members fall out amongst themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022874698abda424aa195256410e9073f5e\u0022\u003ETelevision\u2014Digital Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225758e32e3db140518d11ac379d5d1a98\u0022\u003EMARTIN GALLAGHER (Labour\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Broadcasting: What progress has been made with making digital television available in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3750f9b551a4a19a8fb2816e73dc09b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3750f9b551a4a19a8fb2816e73dc09b\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Broadcasting):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to inform the House that free-to-air digital television broadcasting commenced yesterday. The FreeView group of broadcasters launched its satellite service, which means that all New Zealanders now have access to free-to-air digital television, which provides superior quality reception, and better pictures and sound. I hope that over time we will see more channels, more content, and more services, like interactivity, made available throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4c2b6869ac149d7828cfe97e4fde271\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I have been having some difficulty hearing\u2014[Interruption]\u2014because of the noise in the Chamber, not my own disability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d2277764e1f4a688db80a93e3c00f35\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The level of conversation amongst members on all sides of the House is starting to rise again. If members have urgent business they want to transact with each other, would they please take it out of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223a0e52c8-5bb1-4325-9870-21f4e3eb3702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7c16e00fde44c47bedb1dfe2df59255\u0022\u003EMartin Gallagher\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has the Minister received on the transition of free-to-air broadcasting to digital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf17a5c55c1c460b98c60e5fab3c25d2\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: Following a proposal from the group of free-to-air broadcasters, I took advice from a range of independent analysts, officials of the Ministry of Culture and Heritage, the Crown Company Monitoring Advisory Unit, the Ministry of Economic Development, Treasury, and free-to-air broadcasters themselves. That advice told me that it was essential that broadcasters move to digital because analogue broadcasting equipment was becoming redundant and because New Zealanders needed to share the advantages of digital television, like countries all around the world. The only bad piece of advice I have had concerns my being disappointed by the constant complaints by the National Party spokesperson on broadcasting, who has led the industry to believe that he opposes digital television, which is a very real shame. This ought to be something that is shared across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f670fc375b3d4c03ba7b91c5ab527ad3\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister, then, be taking the advice he was given, that he needs to set a date for switching off the analogue signal; and does the Minister realise that unless he takes that advice, takes the responsibility, and names a date, FreeView does not have the chance of attracting an audience and will therefore represent a waste of $104 million of taxpayers\u2019 money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312bf098320c4e219bbb8e62b4f6acfa\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, the advice was the exact opposite. Countries around the world have found that setting a switch-off date is one of the most difficult things to do. Therefore the advice suggested that we set a time frame, which we have done, of between 6 and 10 years, which is exactly what all the broadcasters agree with, what the FreeView platform agrees with, and what we will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b849d5ca43394522870354d8dcc4d618\u0022\u003EEarly Childhood Education\u2014Free Hours, Number of Recipients\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277a4f034097f4e709ff4d1dcbafaec5c\u0022\u003EKATHERINE RICH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by the statement made on his behalf by the Associate Minister of Education yesterday, in relation to 20 free hours, that \u201CNinety-two thousand 3 and 4-year-olds will benefit from this\u201D; if so, when will these 92,000 children actually receive 20 free hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022 data-id=\u00220f7fe075b67b46c49af1afd3141ca363\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f7fe075b67b46c49af1afd3141ca363\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E As I have said on a number of occasions, up to 92,000 children aged 3 and 4 will be eligible for this policy, which will be rolled out from 1 July. They can take up that eligibility at any centre that offers free early childhood education and is teacher-led. From the ongoing contact I have had with officials and with the sector\u2014I met just this morning with the symposium on early childhood education\u2014I remain very optimistic. I also would refer members to the fact that it now appears that over 200,000 attestation forms have been distributed through the centres themselves for parents to use. That seems to me to indicate a high level of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9c3ae7654784edcbc1a5b4e1241bc17\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Is it any wonder that the Associate Minister got it wrong yesterday, when he grandly proclaimed that 92,000 3 and 4-year-olds will benefit from the Government\u2019s policy of 20 free hours, when this policy keeps slithering from all 3 and 4-year-olds to \u201Cup to\u201D, \u201Chopefully\u201D, or \u201Caround\u201D 92,000 kids having access but not getting the actual hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3538662dd0044d1870966355a883090\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member by now must be losing count of the number of questions she has asked on this issue. I do not think that, on the way through, I have changed at all the phrase that up to 92,000 3 to 4-year-olds in teacher-led centres will have access to this fantastic policy. I can say to the member something else that I have repeated, and it is that I am sure that by the next election we will see a bipartisan position on this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229898bb498b5c469eb755276b11eb80b1\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister or any of his staff contacted the Associate Minister and told him that the promise in the last election that 92,000 3 and 4-year-olds would benefit from this policy has actually changed, and that now only a fraction of those kids will receive those hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f03164c2e6dc4d659ae9ce41dad0d5da\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The Associate Minister understands the policy fully. He also understands something else that is very, very important, which is that if there were a National Government, not one single child would get access to this policy, because National is dedicated to scrapping it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295ac7206-f497-429d-bf58-715224d5160f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200a0ac8de35746169c4b46417c392e86\u0022\u003EKatherine Rich\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister realised that only he and the Labour Party are now disturbingly upbeat about this policy, which sector groups refer to as dangerous, morally wrong, and the biggest threat to the quality of early childhood education in our generation, and which even 37 percent of the members of his beloved Childcare Association do not support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328bc4e471d343c08e3f3237fcb85c12\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: The figure at the end of that question is quite wrong. If the member would like to contact Nancy Bell, she would hear that 67 percent of the Childcare Association\u2019s members have already opted in, and only 6 percent have indicated that they may not, with the middle group saying they are still talking to the parents. I remain optimistic about the policy, and given that Mr John Key is so keen on it\u2014and therefore we already have the basis of a bipartisan agreement\u2014I am very anxious to deliver it for the leader of the National Party, if not for the member herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022452e15ba49cc41e0a363312ec12ceec9\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that a briefing paper from his own ministry, dated 21 July 2006, formally advised him that there was a need to contain \u201Cunrealistic expectations that could form around the word \u2018free\u2019 \u201D, and will he tell the House precisely what those unrealistic expectations are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020d4222801d496d8dc1881c5e2580a8\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will know\u2014because I am sure she has worked on the policy itself\u2014this policy started 5 years ago. The symposium today marks the halfway point. It runs through until 2012. We have yet to train a large number of teachers. We have yet to open a large number of centres. We must ensure that during this period of time we maintain realistic expectations in relation to that overall 10-year policy. We are doing exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d1c031f5f79429db6122a31355b6b26\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the \u201Cunrealistic expectations\u201D that his ministry was referring to in its advice to him on 21 July 2006 were unrealistic expectations that the Government might actually have meant what it said to parents when it used the word \u201Cfree\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022605133aa-6c88-4150-82dd-7d9fcf1824b4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a99260f4782463d92f32cf749c52029\u0022\u003EHon STEVE MAHAREY\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the member is attempting to use sarcasm, but let me just go back to the central point\u2014[Interruption] It was an attempt; it was not very good but it was an attempt. As I said to the member previously, this policy is a 10-year strategy that is halfway through. For example, we have 5,000 teachers in training right now to go into early childhood centres. Over the next 5 years the centres will expand, the number of teachers will expand, and Mrs Bennett\u2014who has become a vociferous supporter of this policy, alongside Mr Key, but unlike Mrs Rich, I notice\u2014will therefore get her way as she sees this policy roll out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022244e7c947b614ec68115f1c4b6cb9a4f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the report in Nelson\u2019s newspaper that Paula\u2019s Preschool, which has signed up to the Government\u2019s 20 free hours policy, also has a policy of a compulsory voluntary donation to go with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268195d4a16994887a5665e365c7d75e7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82d7778ad814fd2a899ebb0d8be5e5c\u0022\u003EPaula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the briefing document from the Ministry of Education to the Minister, which clearly states that unrealistic expectations could form around the word \u201Cfree\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fd74c0d92d34c348d3981ecc4600f72\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b40fcc3d31242c2a5ec4482e3908339\u0022\u003EAmbulance Service\u2014Crewing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed088b1a894e4af6a6170a5b2e193065\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he agree that all ambulances responding to emergencies should operate with a minimum of two qualified crew as required by the New Zealand Standard for ambulance services; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022d77403bc05014d5ca576c982832827d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d77403bc05014d5ca576c982832827d4\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The current contracts with ambulance providers refer to \u201Cbest endeavours\u201D to achieve double-crewing in accordance with the current New Zealand standard. At least 82 percent of ambulance call-outs are double-crewed, although as better data becomes available it may prove to be a little higher than that. As resources and trained staff become available we will move closer to the goal of complete double-crewing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022403bc5f6e08545418d2b8802fc16adf7\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that in some parts of New Zealand ambulances are routinely responding to emergencies single-crewed in cases including road accidents, cardiac chest pain, back injury, near drowning, and overdose, amongst others, and is he concerned that during the months of March and April alone there were over 100 cases of single-crewed ambulances going to emergencies just in Horowhenua, according to a report from the New Zealand Ambulance Services Association; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a473ba62f49c4b4b8f6b9630a61c6990\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen the New Zealand Ambulance Services Association report that the member has just referred to, but now that I know it exists I will seek it out. There are approximately 300,000 call-outs in New Zealand\u2014just under 1,000 a day\u2014and the vast majority of those are competently completed successfully by two competent ambulance crew. It may help the House to know that despite its name, the New Zealand Ambulance Services Association is not the industry body\u2014that is Ambulance New Zealand. The New Zealand Ambulance Services Association is, in fact, a Wanganui-based union with approximately 12 members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228741e5f4b9b42abbc71cf16d7e364be\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government supplied resources to help attain the New Zealand standard for ambulance services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d5b8cd57ee4393a53da0fdb0cd2eb6\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we have\u2014year after year. For example, the agreement with St John\u2019s, which provides most ambulance services in New Zealand, has in the past 3 years included funding increases that require it to employ an extra 67 staff. These extra staff are in addition to the normal adjustments for population, and the price is additional to the normal price movements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2244f21795545d59920e705db236458\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that on 2 March this year a single-crewed ambulance was sent to a patient in cardiac arrest in Horowhenua\u2014the patient later died\u2014and does he agree that it takes at least two people to resuscitate a patient in cardiac arrest and then transport that patient to hospital; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1bfb5dbd5404998a6f2b09e247e899e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am concerned, as I was concerned a month or two ago when, I think in Huntly, a member of the public drove the ambulance because the single ambulance officer was in the back attending to the patient. These instances still occur. The point is that they are occurring less and less commonly because we are increasing ambulance services and funding to ambulance providers each year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c72f34853fb4394af853700255373cd\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that, by the admission of his own figures that he produced today, about 50,000 ambulance call-outs are single-crewed; does he agree that this widespread practice is putting lives at risk; and will he, as the Minister of Health, take action to give statutory force to the standard for the double-crewing of ambulances; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d2c04e7528488b8a79289d9e9c10f0\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I should reiterate that the figure of 82 percent is probably conservative; it is the minimum percentage of ambulance call-outs that are double-crewed. Eighteen percent, or fewer, have one. For example, 3 percent of all calls are recorded as having no ambulance drivers at all. That is clearly wrong. I do think that we should move towards double-crewing, and over the years we have put further funding into ambulance services so that we can. That is why we are getting closer to double-crewing now in this country than we have ever been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ec12e1583043739454829fdabfed44\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was whether the Minister would give statutory force to the double-crewing standard. I wonder whether he could answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d1619094f7f450e866dd53f47e3b70f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As the member is aware, in supplementary questions only one question is normally permitted. There were several in that question. The Minister did address some of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9315496bd0845558c4dd9fcf498f3ed\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the statistics for March and April, showing that in more than a hundred cases in the Horowhenua ambulances were sent to emergencies single-crewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022502431d248d44aadbcee860e83a6d8c6\u0022\u003EState Houses\u2014Quotable Value New Zealand Valuations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022749c66c8f02746d7b74782dc66f7203e\u0022\u003EPHIL HEATLEY (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What is Quotable Value New Zealand\u2019s latest \u201Cindependent replacement valuation\u201D, or market valuation, of each of the three Glen Innes State house properties\u2014land and buildings\u2014that have a rateable valuation of $2 million, $1.43 million, and $1.40 million respectively, as per his response to question for written answer 11513 (2006)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u0022603dde57d5434b4b8a3ee9926463dc0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022603dde57d5434b4b8a3ee9926463dc0b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E The member appears to be asking two separate questions. On the one hand, he wants to know the replacement value of three small, old, modest State houses located in Glen Innes. I guess the value would be \u201Cnot much\u201D. On the other hand, he also asks for the market valuation of the land and buildings. These are the figures I have already supplied in my written answer. Actually, the value of one of these properties has fallen because it did not have the expected redevelopment potential expected at the valuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c5edf75b2104f7db4a3f30bce790090\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I had to prove to the Clerk\u2019s Office that Quotable Value New Zealand had supplied Housing New Zealand Corporation with the market valuations, or replacement valuations, for land and buildings for these three State houses. I proved that to the Clerk\u2019s Office. I asked a specific question about the valuations of these three properties\u2014not the rateable valuation but the replacement or market valuation. The Minister had all morning and half the afternoon to prepare the answers. I want the market valuations of these three properties. Could I please have the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312dcbb0bf83425384acb79e231513e2\u0022\u003EHon Mark Burton\u003C/span\u003E: The member asked a question and the Minister addressed the question. That is what he is required to do. What the member wants is not necessarily what the Minister has to provide. The Minister addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243da1a1cc97f47bba1cb163d529db93c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, when you look at this question you will see that the member asked me for two valuations: the replacement valuation or the market valuation. I provided those two answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f15db3edf5f64fd8b375328f566bd6e8\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, you need to think very, very carefully about this particular question, I think, because much of this information is available publicly. Some of it is not, and it is the little bit that is not that we want the Minister to talk about today. Mr Burton might say that the Minister addressed the question. We all know that one can address a question by standing up and saying \u201Crhubarb\u201D and sitting down. Or a Minister can simply refuse to address a question. But I think there is significant public interest in this particular issue. It is a requirement under the Standing Orders that an answer is given consistent with the public good. Letting Ministers just misuse people\u2019s good intentions like this is unacceptable. The Minister was asked for the independent replacement value. He must know that, and he must surely be able to give it to the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f99181ebe7b04eb09de722492492719a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot be responsible for the quality of questions lodged by the member Phil Heatley. The question asks what the replacement values are. I have said that the replacement value on three old, small, State houses located on very valuable land in Glen Innes is not much. But if we take into account the member\u2019s second question of what the market valuation is of each of the three properties\u2019 land and buildings, that amount is quite considerable and I have given him that answer in my reply to his written question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b912b299c7cc4434a4da63bb9c3857eb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister then share the information that is in the written answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbc9a5de723e4c269d8b5514d9387b63\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The information is in the initial question. These valuations are $2 million, $1.43 million, and $1.4 million. I did correct the fact that one of the values had dropped because the site was not, as expected, suitable for redevelopment. One of the valuations had actually gone down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e15d347319944c139a0d12cec53cc08c\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. This is exactly the problem. These are rateable valuations. Rating valuations are struck on mesh blocks. They are struck as an average across a block of properties. They are not struck particularly on any value. Anybody who buys real estate knows that they use the quotable value as a guide, but it very, very seldom reflects the actual market price. I think we are simply looking for the independent value on the replacement cost of these properties, which includes land and buildings. The Minister must know this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c186d9da6a8242158574a22533ead218\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister please address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585ae35a6314461e9b05ed50b4c8c62a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: We seem to be at cross-purposes here. The question actually asks two questions: \u201CWhat is the replacement of these small old houses?\u201D\u2014not much. But what is the market valuation of those properties when one takes into consideration the valuable part of those properties, which is the land? It is considerable\u2014and I have given the value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa887b7387ad42dd9bb5d44a57c6c57f\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. This question has been down on notice and I do not know anything about it. But I am sitting here trying to understand it because this is question time, and it seems to me we have a problem. The Minister clearly does not want to give the straight answer and has come down here ill-prepared. We know that there is a valuation for these properties, and it will not be \u201Cconsiderable\u201D and it will not be \u201Cnot much\u201D. Maybe the Minister could say, if he does not know and has not got the answer: \u201CLook, I\u2019m ill-prepared for this question, and I\u2019ll get my office to have a crack after question No 12.\u201D, because it is clear that it is not going to go anywhere. If the Minister of Housing, with a question on notice \u201CWhat is the value of this house?\u201D says \u201Cnot much\u201D or \u201Ca lot\u201D, it is hardly answering the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223254077021fa4c508600d0ff949ea5af\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I now understand what the issue is, I think, quite clearly. The Minister has addressed the question. He has not, obviously, addressed it to the satisfaction of members in terms of giving specific amounts, that is true. But he has addressed the question generally, so I will ask us to move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c8605feb1664fbbb5fdbeb0edb6419b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do not want to challenge your ruling in a way that causes great problems, but I think we must have a bit of a look at this. For the Minister to, on the one hand, say: \u201CThe valuations are as provided in my written answer, the rating valuations.\u201D, in answer to a question that specifically asks about independent market valuations; and then, on the other hand, to say: \u201CWell, the land is worth a lot and the buildings aren\u2019t worth much.\u201D\u2014surely if that is addressing the question, then we may as well just shut Parliament and spend our days reading fiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cbcaa30b7824fef9f0d27bc41826814\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand. But it is not for the Speaker to judge the quality of the answer that has, in fact, been given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022746206edd85c4703925965bca21b64f9\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The reason I have taken this point of order is that a week or so ago you took a point of order from my colleague Gordon Copeland ahead of me because he was faster to his feet than me. My colleague Ron Mark was clearly ahead of Gerry Brownlee. Standing Order 102 actually states that seniority prevails, and now I am asking you\u2014and I accepted your ruling the other day\u2014to please clarify whether we operate points of order by the Standing Orders or by your edict the other day when you twice sat me down in favour of Gordon Copeland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d832e10664ed4ceab1ec2bcb4539b1c0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is who the Speaker recognises. In this instance I recognised that Gerry Brownlee was on his feet. But I have recognised the member ahead of Gordon Copeland, you will notice, this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f0eb99967841eb822366f7e1a537d5\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022058f13e611ff4640a78907ec7c4812b7\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If members wish to remain with us for the rest of question time, then they will not intervene on points of order. I call Ron Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e4e144336a4a6dbcce65833b7f3d75\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I am raising this point of order in anticipation of a problem, in the hope that you will consider what has just happened. I am worried now, and I would like your view and your ruling as to whether answers such as \u201Cnot much\u201D by a Minister of the Crown will be accepted, because I foresee a situation where, if I ask my supplementary question, which is written down here, where a specific figure is known, and a specific expectation of the Minister exists to be on top of his portfolio and to know the detail, I might, too, now receive the answer \u201CNot many.\u201D I ask you to consider where this will lead the House if successive Ministers\u2014of immigration, finance, or defence\u2014answer the questions from other members of Parliament, such as \u201CHow many soldiers deployed to Bamian\u201D, with \u201CNot many.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285d0f5b6cf4b4ddba6c8e95fe00e5e0b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have got the essence of the member\u2019s speech. I just remind members that points or order are meant to be made succinctly. As members know\u2014[Interruption] I am on my feet, OK? As members know, they cannot require specific answers to questions. In this instance, as I ruled, the Minister addressed it. It is demonstrably clear that it was not considered to be an adequate answer to the question. However, that was the Minister\u2019s judgment, and it is not for the Speaker to judge the quality of that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cee6a89-68e3-40fd-b2d8-d8adb0ba5da0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208b00b7314f04e8a91dbe26ee71b913a\u0022\u003EGordon Copeland\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to speak to the points of order raised by both Gerry Brownlee and now by Ron Mark, which are similar. I point out, because I think it is helpful to you, and to the House, Madam Speaker, that the Minister is quite right. This question refers to three different valuations: an independent replacement valuation, a market valuation\u2014that is two\u2014and, three, a rateable valuation. I think the Minister\u2019s point was\u2014and he is quite right\u2014that a replacement valuation and a market valuation are two different things, yet Mr Heatley has asked for them. So how can the Minister possibly answer the question, when the question itself is ambiguous?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7189b94f2149d3bb27246f3cc01d90\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: What I was trying to demonstrate was that the replacement value of the small old houses was quite modest. To build a house of that size would cost about $280,000. I could have come down with that figure, but that was not the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that the member in asking his question is asking two different questions. One is the replacement value of the house, and the other is the actual total value. We have given him the precise answer to the total value. I apologise if the House found that my answer was too flippant. It is about $280,000 to replace those houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225192f6d3-dca6-43c8-a55e-381e1d7c1225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1e44d092e8647d38bcfd55bf0db61a9\u0022\u003EHon Murray McCully\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I refer you to Speakers\u2019 ruling 153/3\u2014it is quite a well-known Speakers\u2019 ruling\u2014that Ministers should provide an answer if that answer can be provided consistent with the public interest. Indeed, there is in some of the surrounding Speakers\u2019 rulings a clear process for Ministers who believe that it is not in the public interest to provide the information that is sought at question time. I suggest to you that, in the particular circumstances in which we find ourselves today, it seems likely that the Minister does, in fact, have particular figures that the member who asked the question asked for. It may assist the House if you were to seek confirmation from the Minister that he does, in fact, have the information, and were to ask him to provide it. I think that should be the way in which we interpret that Speakers\u2019 ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e21d7586034a19af549d4dfe7dd7da\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. But I think to some extent it was just the way in which the question was phrased that may have led to some confusion. But the Minister has now, I think, specifically addressed the question with a specific figure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa6f7d55d8144908b214bcaf404fa17\u0022\u003E Hon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I would ask you to consider the comments that the Hon Chris Carter has made in several points of order. He has said that he was asked the replacement value. He was not asked the replacement value of the properties; he was asked the independent replacement valuation, which\u2014[Interruption] Well, the important point is this, I say to the Minister, as he will know, every year Quotable Value New Zealand prepares an \u201Cindependent replacement valuation\u201D. A document with those words was provided to the Clerk\u2019s Office to verify this question. An independent replacement valuation is prepared on high-value properties of Housing New Zealand Corporation every year. Those independent replacement valuations are the replacement valuation of the whole property. So for the Minister to stand up in the House and say that he is unaware of that difference, when yesterday he gave answers based on those independent replacement valuations, is quite wrong and he needs to be reprimanded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f3c3fea355342a99389d9ee2de891a0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think we have the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6aa4f9646aa4368af26a8840d949934\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efa3ccafe6294d468bb02c1432cfaace\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, Phil Heatley will speak, and then anyone else who wishes to contribute, please let me know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dbc2e20d18541eb88057244df6176c6\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to stand and confirm what the Hon Tony Ryall just said. I went to the Clerk\u2019s Office because I had to confirm with its staff the paperwork that showed that the valuation of the property\u2014which was the land and the buildings\u2014was called an \u201Cindependent replacement valuation\u201D. So that is what I asked for\u2014the independent replacement valuation of the land and the buildings. I put in there, to help the Minister, the words \u201Cor market valuation\u201D, because that is what New Zealanders generally know it as\u2014and to help the public in understanding my question. My question specifically asks for the valuation of the land and the buildings\u2014the replacement valuations. The Minister has simply given back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0ea15db6dfe461f8abc9744162a9c7e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can we get to the point\u2014succinctly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256c16f1b2bf84c06a6cd5dcfac294876\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc8d6d477b345ab949174f40265f733\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d9b81acb6ea4804b26f2d18f45bb948\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Madam Speaker, I need to clarify something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d3345538c034928900e85e78c945ff4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Please be seated. But would the member please be succinct. He is starting to repeat himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b369a41aa1c84f9884f805d92c13debc\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I will be succinct. The Minister has simply reflected back to me the rateable valuations, which I have already provided to him in the question. I would like to confirm that Tony Ryall is quite right. The Clerk\u2019s Office has confirmed this, and I would like the independent rateable valuations on all those properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a181de4aae4ee18a56ede1af82fbb1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. We understand your point. Is there anyone else from that side of the House, or anywhere else? Judy Turner would like to contribute. Is the member contributing to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226184388848dc41e3809f5c0af0c2e766\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3d7f6ae2454829a8abc97cc72e4391\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014good. Then we will have the Hon Chris Carter in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e05024a89140ee94a10ea77680bdcf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Hopefully, this is my last contribution on the point of order. The Hon Tony Ryall is not correct; Housing New Zealand Corporation has properties valued for insurance and rating purposes only if the buildings themselves are worth over a million dollars. These three little old houses in Glen Innes are manifestly not worth over a million dollars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ad2f3768fd74dfb91bc9b650b887d15\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank all members for their contribution to this. I think we did get the question addressed; I would now like to move on with the supplementary questions, and I have Judy Turner in my sights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f986d4e61754001b41a9f2ba199290a\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is usual for the member who asks the primary question to have the first supplementary question, and I have not had it yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022031557eef6bd484e816c58e2d52d3032\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I am sorry. I felt, perhaps, that we had had a full discussion. But of course the member can have his question first, and I apologise for being distracted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ccf2c7f7edc413c839540ea5e6d51e9\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: When in the exchange of points of order the Minister said that Housing New Zealand Corporation values properties only where the buildings are worth over $1 million, is he telling this House that there are 145 State house properties where the buildings are worth over $1 million; and could he please tell us what the land is worth on those 145 properties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7acc7394884b1880f0c0a34f281294\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is once again being evasive with the truth. Independent valuations by Housing New Zealand Corporation are only of properties worth over $1 million. Many of the properties that Mr Heatley quoted in the House yesterday are huge blocks of flats or very large community houses; they are not actually homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229e5c15673654db3bf70c4af219c787d\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Minister, what reports have you received about the 145\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf759a14ee1445fc880b7f5837c9053b\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257894a5ecacc4d4ab5ba6cf827a1be93\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I did actually preface it with the word \u201CMinister\u201D, but I will do it correctly for Mr Brownlee\u2019s sake. Can the Minister tell the House what reports he has received about the 145 properties worth more than $1 million that the honourable member Phil Heatley referred to in the House yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266537629500d48959047c55a0e474408\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: It would appear that Mr Heatley got his facts wrong, again. These valuations are mostly not for stand-alone properties; they are, in fact, for 145 sites on which there are 2,674 individual units. A housing complex, like the Dixon Street flats here in Wellington that has 119 individual units, is recorded as being only one property. He got it wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276af065a3bad4d0398022e21c5e439b1\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: What is the market value of the three properties in Glen Innes, which have a single house on them each, that have a rateable valuation of $2 million, $1.43 million, and $1.4 million; what is their market value?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e0cb88d0234bbf86c1110befbdc71a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Those figures have already been given to the member\u2014$2 million, $1.43 million, and $1.4 million. But the $1.43 million property has fallen in value, because when its value was assessed we thought it could be used in more intensification of the site, but it proved unsuitable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3ea7d7057d498fa40cdb36c46166a0\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that it is part of the Government\u2019s housing strategy to own million-dollar - plus State houses, when he said yesterday in this debating chamber: \u201C\u2026 just because a house is worth over $1 million that does not mean to say it does not have a valid place to be a State house.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4c15bc218714a1e898a5dec76be78ad\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: When these properties become vacant, the corporation makes a decision about whether to retain the property, redevelop the site to make better use of the land, or even to sell the property. We are not having a programme of selling off 13,000 State houses, like the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291831b725c1c48b2a33df65880dc11e1\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is unwilling to sell the high-value properties with current tenants in residence, is he prepared to look into rent-to-buy schemes for tenants paying market rents in State houses as a way of improving home ownership rates, and to free up capital for reinvestment in State housing so that waiting lists can be better addressed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226967689f8a0d4c20b8676018bdcd61b8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not prepared to have rent to buy, but what I am prepared to do, and what we are doing in Hobsonville, is to create new greenfield sites where it is possible for first home buyers to buy their property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed76c2bc92904e8183fd9418a7204610\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that it is not this Government\u2019s policy to ensure that all State houses are congregated together in the lowest-income area, and that that failed policy of the National Party in the past is still causing problems throughout New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ce4624a09b41ba94e10f84aa30acda\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that that is Labour\u2019s policy. What I can also say is that it is very disappointing that the local member for the Hobsonville area, John Key, is totally opposed to the project to create affordable housing in his electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022868b476fbb024d1ab02589678cf3588a\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Can he please confirm parliamentary question No. 4110, that the $2 million Glen Innes property has a tenant paying $80 a week in rent and has been there since 1998?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022018d7ae6278644c0b89d512aae241c93\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot confirm the rental, but what I can confirm is that the three properties that Mr Heatley asked about in his primary question have been tenanted for between 7 and 39 years. Perhaps Mr Heatley could tell this House why he wants to kick an old lady out of her house, where she has lived for 39 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a17782f6e7914f3eb988e6c826a5e5a3\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Has Housing New Zealand ever proactively approached this tenant in the $2 million State house, explained the waiting list numbers, and offered the tenant another house in the wider area, or one of the five $400,000 properties that the sale of this house could buy; if so, what did the tenant say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a566d68143148319d3d6040b9b024eb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that Housing New Zealand Corporation actively keeps tenants informed of home ownership opportunities, as well as encouraging people living in houses that are either too large or too small, to apply for transfers. I wonder whether the member is prepared to go and visit that tenant and explain why his party sold 13,000 State houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a031c88bfe8c4003bb9ea0ee89e33578\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the parliamentary answer that states that the $2 million Glen Innes property has been tenanted for 10 years to someone paying $80 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d0aef40571f4faa9ea44b6e95c5edf9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75a2ae8bcf946498d2ef84bd3ff9b73\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the parliamentary answer that gives the rateable value of these $1 million - plus properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacaf34f8fe54aa79241a3f1594a95b5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c50867bfe3454d338ab7c5fe51ee1713\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table Quotable Value\u2019s annual review in which it gives the market value of these $1 million properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257d0d8b443474f9988b5af7e016c8e8e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fce1897371f4ee6992d614cca220af7\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the House\u2019s indulgence. Before I put this request to the House, I explain to you that it is about a question we have asked on numerous occasions but have not been able to get an answer to. I seek the leave of the House to ask that supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b86e16b73cf1492e83fc8aa6c514cae5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022546817bb72464815b7aef950b8645456\u0022\u003EKyoto Protocol\u2014New Zealand\u0027s Liability\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8889c0081f47419bcb01f0fa101619\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues: Does he agree with the estimate of Murray Ward, former head of the Government\u2019s own Climate Change Office, that New Zealand\u2019s Kyoto liability is likely to be $1.8 billion, rather than Treasury\u2019s current estimate of $567 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002238c42aae7e0944ad837bb30d4c5e524a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238c42aae7e0944ad837bb30d4c5e524a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E No, I do not. The figures used by Dr Smith are based on a volume of emissions that is unrealistically high, and I am confident that the Government\u2019s climate change policy will reduce our emissions, not increase them\u2014as Dr Smith projects. In terms of the cost of each tonne, the price reflects the cost of reducing emissions, and that price depends on how far and how fast the world moves to reduce emissions. What is clear already is that the price in New Zealand will be substantially lower than the European price upon which Dr Smith bases his calculations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6be5f9e0c4945bba427947217cf90b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How is it credible, in the Government\u2019s accounts, to include provision for deforestation of 26,000 hectares, when the December report of the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry puts the figure at 47,000 hectares; and is not the key reason that these Kyoto figures look so bad that the Government\u2019s awful forestry policies are causing ever-increasing levels of deforestation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022319fb21b353d4b51b78114470f7df3e6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s proposed $21 million tonne cap on deforestation liabilities has been in the public arena for a long time. It remains true that the future cost of carbon depends on how far and how fast the world moves to reduce emissions. I make the point that that is up in the air, and if the world\u2019s purpose on climate change is as lacking as that of the National Party, then the price of carbon would drop to zero and global warming would, of course, get worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2b2320475c04e66969e2f1454797f28\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements has the Government made about economic incentives to reduce greenhouse gas emissions across the economy in order to meet our Kyoto Protocol targets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca597d2e49f49b89f8455abdad3be3d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: We have consulted thoroughly over recent months and a clear message has been received\u2014that is, that the vast majority of submitters believe that all sectors can and should do their fair share, bearing in mind that it will be easier for some sectors than for others. With this endorsement, we have announced that detailed design work is proceeding on a possible \u201Ccap and trade\u201D scheme covering all sectors of the economy and all greenhouse gas emissions. The design of effective greenhouse gas pricing is, in the opinion of the Government, important for both environmental and economic reasons. We look forward to continuing to engage with other interested parties as we complete that design.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285712e72-b25f-4850-b4d9-90035064fde3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0655b309e7f4f3c81c977a5fbe2e8ef\u0022\u003ENandor Tanczos\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House, regardless of whether we are talking about $1.8 billion or $567 million, what proportion of that is directly attributable to agriculture; and does he agree that until all sectors, including agriculture, have to pay for their carbon emissions that money represents a direct taxpayer subsidy to animal farmers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddc815c68a124cf28d811de341cf4f6f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Approximately 49 percent of New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions come from the agricultural sector, and it is important that all sectors do their bit. That is not to say that the agricultural sector should have to reduce emissions at the same rate of reduction that would be achievable, for example, in the transport or electricity generation sectors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226efc0fdabcbe4d13836aae08769bcfcc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How is it credible for the Government to reduce its Kyoto Protocol liabilities for deforestation by approximately $500 million by saying it will do it with a 10 percent deforestation cap and by passing that liability on to forest owners when it has not introduced or passed any legislation to do this, when the public statements of other political parties show that it does not have the numbers to pass such laws, and when this liability stands to take effect in just 7 months\u2014on 1 January 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225230cfd54b144d1f991ed7edb6d5a270\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is about time for the National Party to stop scaremongering. Nick Smith should stop\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570ecd04c9f94376a7e0613cf964a8e7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was quite a deliberate question about the 10 percent deforestation cap that will require legislation and whether, indeed, the Minister has the numbers for the Government\u2019s books to be able to credibly reduce the amount by $500 million. The Minister chose to begin his answer by just making some derogatory comments about National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07e99df1d2945c3bcf58662ce07dd50\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree. If the Minister would just address the question and leave aside all other superfluous comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce26edabf7c147cba96e6094c174e134\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am confident that the Government\u2019s climate change policy will not only see that deforestation cap met but also bettered. National\u2019s statements to the contrary are scaremongering again. Nick Smith should stop trying to frighten the New Zealand public about climate change action and actually start trying to become part of the solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e715b7d9d54d76aedc33ca48d2bbf0\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports on alternative approaches to managing our Kyoto Protocol liability through a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b979bae58964673ab3b02a3c4acaa17\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, I have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022710015d24fc145b8a33382219e7e2bb2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: National supports it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e05070eb5348ee95e170ca4a130253\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Nick Smith says those members support it. Well, I have received reports of a \u201Ccap and trade\u201D system that proposes no cap on deforestation, no cap on agricultural emissions, no cap on transport emissions, no cap on industrial emissions, and a cap at current levels on electricity emissions. This is Dr Smith\u2019s \u201Ccap and trade\u201D scheme\u2014\u201Ccap and trade\u201D without a cap. It would not work and it would be next to useless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3533dd09494939b05569e12ce6a197\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister\u2014[Interruption] I would be happy to table what our actual policy is, for the benefit of members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d0cd25dda2f488c9318ef46fa4e63df\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: They would steal it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea8fb761d5d4fbeb677514b351736a1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they probably will steal it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c804089b98a45a79013e763a39ee611\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please ask the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a85aaff9b78e4a269301df56bc979a92\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How is it credible for the Government\u2019s estimates of the Kyoto Protocol liability to be based on a carbon price of just $10 a tonne when the only Kyoto Protocol - compliant carbon market has a trading price of $30 per tonne; and why, when it comes to the exchange rate, is the Minister happy to use the high market value of 74c in the dollar to minimise the liability but will not use the market value for carbon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2cf68f6ca1a4487984388293d0cfe1d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: For a start, the Government accounts do not have it at US$10 a tonne; they have it at US$12.50, or thereabouts. This figure is set by Treasury. I have confidence in the Treasury figure. One of the reasons I have confidence is that Treasury is right to use a figure that is substantially lower than the European figure\u2014as this report from one of its economic advisers from London points out. It states that the European price is not appropriate for New Zealand\u2014particularly because the European price is considerably more than what other Kyoto-compliant units can be bought for\u2014and simply using the European price as a proxy for the assumed price in the Crown\u2019s carbon accounts would, therefore, significantly overestimate the cost of Kyoto compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbab100feecc4b6b866dca2b955ef732\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of the promise made by the leader of the Labor Party in Australia that, should Labor win the election, it will introduce $10,000 interest-free loans to homeowners to install solar heating; if he is aware of that, does he believe that this could reduce any Kyoto Protocol liability and is worthy of consideration for introduction here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d1dbc6460084d21bec04475428238a2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is no doubt that increases in the use of solar heating of water reduce electricity consumption and, therefore, electricity greenhouse gas emissions. That is why the New Zealand Labour-led Government, as part of our agreement with the Greens, has given a push to solar hot water heating. That is being approached in three ways. We are trying to build volume so as to drive down the cost using market forces, we have increased the subsidy, and we are also driving costs out of the system\u2014as Minister Cosgrove announced yesterday\u2014by simplifying and making standard the consent processes, which looks like it will save as much as $500 a unit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220192804d4d464f72828fae835443c2d4\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think the Minister gave a very full answer, but I actually asked whether he thought the interest-free home loans idea was worthy of consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dffb77bd1e2949ceb95f73d02b79d6a4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister did address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c05c63d6378493fb0439d311d5efbf9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall Government Ministers telling New Zealand that we stood to make hundreds of millions of dollars by ratifying the Kyoto Protocol, then in 2005 the Government saying: \u201COops, we got it wrong. We\u2019re going to have to write out a cheque for $500 million.\u201D; and given that the former head of the Government\u2019s own Climate Change Office, Murray Ward, and also the Green Party, are saying the figure is more like $1.5 billion to $2 billion will the Minister apologise to the public for the mess he has made over his numbers around the Kyoto Protocol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc29da18069a4c268826f95b411b2ebe\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It will not have escaped many members that the person the member quotes, Murray Ward, was the manager of the Ministry for the Environment\u2019s climate change team when the surplus of 55 million tonnes was projected. I do have confidence in Treasury\u2019s projections. I do have confidence that it is correct as to the amount it assigns to the value of carbon. I also accept the proposition that the cost of carbon per tonne is likely to increase over time as the world becomes more ambitious in its carbon reductions. But that does not mean the cost of carbon will increase in the short term to the European price, which is higher than our own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd08d7504f8e429980c5b3f159abf95b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I note the Minister accused me of scaremongering in respect of deforestation, so I seek the leave of the House to table the 2006 deforestation report by the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, stating that in fact our levels of deforestation are double those that the Government can provide for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0c48ea64b643dbb3301194058c03b2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document entitled Price of Kyoto Compliant Emission Units, by a London economist, which reports that the European price is not appropriate for New Zealand and would significantly overestimate the cost of Kyoto compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e27d21b747c48759e9685e39925202b\u0022\u003ETelevision\u2014Health Gains\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cea3722de4124349bf7cd134ee472d12\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What agreement with major television broadcasters will the Government announce today and what long-term health gains are anticipated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u002227e1fa1aa6a449d1a805bb1cad1c65f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227e1fa1aa6a449d1a805bb1cad1c65f3\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E This morning, with the Minister of Broadcasting, I announced agreement with the two major free-to-air TV channels on a five-point plan aimed at improving food advertising to children by limiting the sort of advertising shown during children\u2019s programming zones. This will help improve nutrition and promote a more healthy lifestyle amongst our children, which will promote long-term health gains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c611ad16657e48f686da8f7bb8d5ae14\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What is the essence of this agreement, and how does the Minister intend to satisfy himself that it will work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f2bfacb93ef4db4939b7b3d1f5ba792\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The essence of the agreement is that only advertisements that meet the new standard can be shown. In addition, the television companies will pay for some social marketing campaigns along the lines of Push Play, which will help to promote lifestyle changes in general. The Ministry of Health will monitor these changes so that I can learn to what extent they are successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a87561911f9b4508bb590321d69ebf60\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. One shows that the category of children\u2019s programming that the new announcement will cover is 21 hours on TV2 and 15 hours on TV3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22168b10b1343008a9a8e98643c3c16\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: The second document is a survey by the Broadcasting Standards Authority, showing that most children watch television outside those hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EDocument not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022922a9e12486449a0a341746ab4284577\u0022\u003EMusic Awards\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226c15e5d3c9f476083620aaa38776c98\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: Has she been advised of the statement by Neil Finn that \u201CIt sort of makes me sick to see Helen Clark getting up at the music awards and taking the bows\u201D; if so, what is her response?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022 data-id=\u0022a22a2a939be7450a9394c7e42dd53d36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a22a2a939be7450a9394c7e42dd53d36\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD (Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: Yes, the Minister and I have seen that statement, and as Helen Clark noted, we are not going to get into a debate with Mr Finn on it. What I will say is that this Government can be justifiably proud of its record in supporting New Zealand music. In 2000 the Labour-led Government set up the Music Industry Commission to grow New Zealand music, both at home and overseas. It funded the development of music for broadcast through New Zealand On Air, and it funded the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra and other music through Creative New Zealand. I am very proud of what we have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b263c7df3d69432fb85e19d319062ef1\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister agree that Neil Finn raises a very important question, namely that there is a distinction to be made between Government intervention in the arts and Government interference in the arts, and that this Government is interfering with the arts for its own grubby political ends; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfbed59d9b76442aa6c0cfb275dbd4bd\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has never interfered in the art of music. What we have offered was some support in the business of music. Neil Finn has indeed made a significant contribution. Indeed, the meetings that the Government-in-waiting had in 1998 and 1999, in terms of our proposals for music, took place in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268f6a8011771429f95d444b117ef9ff1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members are getting to the point where it is really difficult to hear an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f1d317266d940fd934f7450abfda879\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister insist on presenting an award at last year\u2019s music awards after she was initially not invited because of the self-serving speech she had given the previous year, only to use that platform to give another long, self-serving speech before hastily departing; and would it not be appropriate for the Minister to admit, in the words of the Split Enz song: \u201CThat was my mistake.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c58679c41a5f49d6b05dce231d9dbd1a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think what people do at music awards is often to try to look hip, and I have to say that the Prime Minister looks rather more hip than Don Brash ever did. She was very warmly welcomed by the range of New Zealand musicians who see that this Government is seriously interested in both New Zealand music and support for New Zealand musicians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcad2f75bcca48e994f9a7a2c3f60247\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government support New Zealand music?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d6da7e1638d40ea9829c0eb87233c1f\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: This Government supports New Zealand music, in very strong contrast with what the people opposite have done when they have had opportunities to do so. The Government supports New Zealand music because it is about New Zealanders telling their own stories and singing their own songs. It is also about jobs and exports. All of those things matter to this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da2bb407f3d7400198ccfd2d2d77c1b1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is the last warning to members. Unless the level of noise goes down, we will be having questions and answers in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228013a212eaba486a88d7e70b65b79ef4\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Could it be, as Tim Finn would say, that the Prime Minister is causing \u201Ca fraction too much friction\u201D for his brother because she is always taking credit for the success of others, or as Neil Finn says: \u201CIt\u2019s like New Zealand music is taking over the world and it\u2019s all because of Helen.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224108249696ef454bbb28195fa855b212\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased the member knows a few 1970s and 1980s song titles. I suggest he comes up to speed, as this Government has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b76605e0595e4e17adaf5c60dc0a6a9c\u0022\u003EDr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister acknowledge that comparing the celebration of New Zealand Music Month with the solemn remembrance of Anzac Day and with the thousands of New Zealanders who sacrificed themselves is the same sort of political misjudgement that was so well demonstrated by the Associate Minister at the Anzac Day service in Auckland, when she tried to dictate who should be laying wreaths?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b1b5881-3b86-4894-ac77-72905f786141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7d706f4c5a4a7c8ccc83bc0d46d967\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH TIZARD\u003C/span\u003E: The Associate Minister did not try to dictate who was laying wreaths, but merely tried to prevent those who were trying to take political advantage of Anzac Day from doing so. I am absolutely clear that it is absolutely unconscionable for parties to parade themselves, when New Zealanders served and died for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022568f159565e44560bbda6250afd95a03\u0022\u003EHorticulture\u2014Labour Shortages\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ae33ee890147998152a095e30e19a2\u0022\u003EDARREN HUGHES (Labour\u2014Otaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: What initiatives has the Government taken to assist horticulturalists with seasonal labour shortages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022db2d2253d16640069fd2a64abe837467\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db2d2253d16640069fd2a64abe837467\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E The Government launched the well-received Recognised Seasonal Employer initiative on 30 April, which was developed in partnership with Pacific States and communities, industry, and unions. It will assist seasonal industries to self-manage the labour shortage, encourage the employment of Kiwis first, and provide a sustainable labour solution for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2097c42bab74980bfb929529bab46b6\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government ensure that overseas workers do not displace New Zealand workers in the seasonal industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1b5a4144a034ff48a3d0deb4ce874fc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Given the exceptional unemployment rate currently being experienced in New Zealand\u20143.7 percent\u2014migrant workers need to be an important secondary source of labour. Employers must access all available New Zealand labour first, the Ministry of Social Development must verify that labour shortages exist in particular areas, and employers must be accredited, after having demonstrated good employment practices. Unions, employers, and Pacific Island States are all committed to making this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbde1ea6cf744aaba4106d2cc5e196bf\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister confirm that this initiative builds on a policy announced by the Rt Hon Winston Peters in October last year that allows Pacific workers to fill seasonal labour shortages, and can he assure the House that the system is not being abused and rorted, as has been reported recently; if the report is true, what is the Minister doing to address that problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a17a791013414e99b136c0d903ddf5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: This initiative was announced by the Prime Minister, Helen Clark, at last year\u2019s Pacific leaders\u2019 forum, and follows on from work that had been done with forum leaders\u2014in part by the Minister of Foreign Affairs\u2014over the preceding year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6be0c72c1dd493aa36bb27807f95277\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. There is a report that states that this system is being abused. That was a very important part of my question to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220667d0b1d9ea4941836e60e6e18acc56\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise; I missed that. Would he like to repeat the second half of the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224548c58dca2949b99d178c459530f3fc\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister assure the House that the system is not being abused; if the abuse that is alleged in this New Zealand Herald report\u2014which I will table\u2014is occurring, what is he doing to address it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248b577f7d71d450488a12aac66df3fd9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he did address the question, but I call the Hon David Cunliffe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256fe2dfd169d489cb1f4dd7c0baf2748\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The system cannot be being abused yet, because it has not actually started. But I can tell the member that Pacific States are working extremely closely with our Government and with employers to ensure that workers will go home at the end of their time. Quite simply, if they do not go home, the employer will be deregistered, and the workers will not come back the next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ffe8d7b9e994e1694e3b3c2d075ecfe\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Why should growers who have followed all of the rules stand to lose thousands of dollars of repatriation bond because the Minister\u2019s department has not followed its own rules\u2014for example, amending a seasonal labour worker\u2019s visa, thus allowing the worker to abscond?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e08416ae24d64324a406dc485e8bfb18\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Quite simply, employers who follow all the rules will lose nothing. One of the rules is that the workers need to go back home at the end of the season.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d65b56aa3ac94f1bb085fc648600eafc\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from myself to the Minister, dated 7 March, where I outline the situation of an employer suffering exactly what I have just described.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd15b9647de048d9ae5b491e9de22644\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can the member confirm whether that matter relates to the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme, which was the subject of the primary question, or to another scheme, such as the old Seasonal Work Permit scheme, which employers in his district would no doubt like to see continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283a55b3de7f5495c9b1cc709d71f059d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure whether that is relevant. We are tabling some documents here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c08fce24ce74ce69a4b602dc7a04a28\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table another document concerning a Government initiative for seasonal labour, which is the Minister\u2019s response to me, referring me to the Palmerston North office\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a1c899d96d54c5996a939fb5a8ef3e9\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ccddaf76ae94977913583422cac3df5\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Finally, I seek leave to table a document dated 23 April, which is the letter I wrote to the Palmerston North office, to which I am still awaiting a reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bebc873bc4c40e3aced596093aad921\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ac5ca6135624f83a0396f560dbee13b\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a report from the New Zealand Herald that refers to syndicates smuggling in illegal workers to work\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202f1cc5accc5462298a425065ef322f6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b2a49d09c2bd41b79af08b73fb4d26f6\u0022\u003ETe Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac49a7f4e47b4e3db86794aa899b1c9a\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Does he have confidence in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u00228198dc7f6f124a44a10d449bf420f930\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228198dc7f6f124a44a10d449bf420f930\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have confidence in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, because its employees are hard-working and conscientious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4412891107441bda5f37fb1da974a8b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Why does Te Puni K\u014Dkiri spend its staff development budget on expensive overseas training courses for staff members on the basis that these courses will allow Te Puni K\u014Dkiri staff to develop their own skills and strengthen their ability to acquire positions elsewhere in the public and private sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225768be0d1cf14f2c9c2269015ca619c6\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know all the details about that, and I will get further information, but one thing that is important to note is that it is hard for the M\u0101ori ministry to hold staff, because, as M\u0101ori organisations and iwi are developing and their assets are becoming a whole lot larger, staff are poached. In order to compete in this market in relation to human resources, it is important that the ministry gets the best skills wherever it can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223530d1eae79f4f96b5167c944617fbb2\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister have confidence in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae0470910094c9c8c3e3a88ea437043\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: The ministry is a key part of incredibly positive results that are now emerging for M\u0101ori. More M\u0101ori are working, more M\u0101ori are moving into semi-higher-skilled occupations, and more M\u0101ori are earning more. M\u0101ori are also involved in the negative areas; we are trying to address issues like poverty and violence, which do run rampant amongst some of our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ec687ef83ef48c3b29406afa3d4b1a9\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Given that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s 2006-07 statement of intent states that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has the lead policy role in supporting the revitalisation of te reo M\u0101ori, and given that the data provided from Te Puni K\u014Dkiri in 2006 confirmed that only one person out of a staff of 270 was receiving recognition for attestation of level 5 fluency in te reo, does the Minister consider that that is sufficient for it to perform this lead role; if not, what will he do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d32ede13d1d40aca95479fa5afaf55f\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I am quite certain that in the sense of that high level, as that doctor knows, the bar is so high that people struggle to get there. But what we are serious about\u2014and today I launched the M\u0101ori medium literacy strategy for schools\u2014is that it is important that everybody gets the opportunity. As that member knows, we funded M\u0101ori Television and we continue to fund the M\u0101 Te Reo aspects in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d985aa22eff4463a40a36301f0e0067\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Would not a ministry like Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, with a history of problems with staff turnover, be better off spending its staff development budget on staff retention than on strengthening their ability to get a better job somewhere else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd5d804ca6db49d9b579ec2aef646c39\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: That is the mix of where M\u0101ori people are going in this contemporary time. I tell the member that when Labour came to office at the end of 1999, after the National Party had been in Government, the turnover rate was running at 23 to 25 percent. The ministry now has the turnover rate down to just under 12 percent. On average, staff members have worked there for between 5 and 6 years. That member was in charge then, when the turnover was dramatic. I finish by saying that the level is below the public service average for turnover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276acace896914e86b15fe0a7571112c1\u0022\u003ETariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. Can the Minister tell me what is meant by the importance of social dialogue to the quality of life, as outlined in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s diversity research programme, and how will it be measured?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a499c91944d4531b62a9b8678af8413\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has reprioritised its efforts to reflect the M\u0101ori Potential Approach, and that is part of it. The priorities are building knowledge and skills\u2014[Interruption] Is Pansy all right? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d95f2fa5909c423fba303eff6513bb15\u0022\u003EPansy Wong\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m fine, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ec395110db446eb7ee4b976161abe1\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: OK. The priorities also include strengthening leadership and decision making, and the development and use of resources. It is about using M\u0101ori organisations and making sure that practices like mauri ora are imbued, that we follow and recognise that there is a M\u0101ori way to do things, and that we fund it. The framework for measuring and monitoring it is something we will work on with all M\u0101ori colleagues in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ae6faf0da7455985d95f77ace558e0\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, of which Mahara Okeroa, Mita Ririnui, and Dave Hereora are members, when it questioned whether sending ministry staff on expensive overseas training courses constituted realising M\u0101ori potential?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d780b345b8ad422089d2013fca6191c5\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori do go global. The members of the select committee have vigorous debates and discussions. They question everybody on every issue that is relevant to the topic of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b76dc100cfae44bebae41d97113e6e29\u0022\u003EDr Pita Sharples\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. In the light of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s role to facilitate Treaty settlements, what action will the Minister be instructing it to take to respond to the people of Te R\u014Droa, who have indicated massive dissatisfaction with the process of addressing longstanding grievances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a500802229b2422ea3219b5ff75545a2\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, there are tensions and challenging opinions in relation to settlements. In relation to Te R\u014Droa, I am more than happy to make officials available to talk to Dr Sharples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222899632640ca4dd58b48cd6ef0b5f9aa\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the 2005-06 financial review of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, which shows the spending of extraordinary amounts of money on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f53ec0f97e247c6b31ef5ebb2a19d31\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228debdca3c25045059760f77c9ad078bd\u0022\u003EKimberley Residents\u2014Assault on Former Resident\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238bb50b1b6554546a97d692f3932d785\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: Has she received any reports regarding an incident involving an assault on an intellectually disabled former Kimberley resident and will she restate her assurance to families of former Kimberley residents that they will receive the same, if not better, care in the community, than they did at Kimberley?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00227639ae9d2d104f83aea09af4a945291e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227639ae9d2d104f83aea09af4a945291e\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Disability Issues: Yes, I have. This has been described as an appalling, cowardly act and is currently under police investigation after NZCare contacted the police that same day. Yes, I am confident that care in the community in general is as good as or better than care in Kimberley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570a5a7d9b3a4ed2b1a9aa69777c3930\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read the reported comments of a mother of a former Kimberley resident that adequate systems were not in place when her daughter was moved into a community house last year, and that \u201CThere have been a lot of incidents that would not have happened if the patients had remained at Kimberley.\u201D; if so, what is the Minister\u2019s response to those comments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4f7217cc7e48a2bc33e7acf191b084\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have read the reported comments on the front page of Tuesday\u2019s Dominion Post, and wish to advise the House that in respect of that case the report is, in part, simply factually wrong\u2014that is to say, the adequate systems, which were allegedly not in place, refer to the availability of registered nurses. A registered nurse was in place from the outset of the establishment of that particular home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6740be094f340a08a600c9840c6ab45\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Despite the alleged disgraceful incident under discussion, have successive Governments pursued deinstitutionalisation, and, in general, does the Minister think the policy has worked?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a434d353cd24cf8bcd74db5f336a335\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is exactly right; deinstitutionalisation has been the policy of many successive Governments. It was\u2014for, indeed, we do not have it any more\u2014about ensuring that people with disabilities are living in the community and doing the day-to-day things such as most of us take for granted. This is a key aim of the disability strategy. As to whether it has worked, I would say that I have yet to meet any New Zealander who used to live in an institution who wants to go back. They simply do not want to go back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223809e30304a44efebff7f59f9e31d192\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: What action is planned if research by the Donald Beasley Institute establishes that the outcomes for former Kimberley patients are worse in the community than they were at Kimberley?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc09eb9d1fd4447a989512b0fcecfd4\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Very considerable action, because it would be the first time that that had happened. I repeat: I have yet to meet a person who has been in an institution who wants to go back. Sometimes I have met family members who on behalf of a client or a patient want them to go back, but I have never met a patient who wants to return. The closure of the Kimberley institution is the last project of its kind in our history. It was the most complex, it was the most expensive, and it remains the most closely monitored, which is why we have the Donald Beasley Institute, an independent outfit based in Dunedin, keeping an eye on us. We are determined to get this right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abc7d20e7c394da2ae2a412b3d0aa8f4\u0022\u003EKimberley Residents\u2014Community Care\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c137ef0a0e2a487ab73f88cbb3478c3c\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: Does she stand by her assurance to the families of Kimberley residents that residents would receive the same, if not better, care in the community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022737c8d17bef2436c805879ac5ebdc5c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022737c8d17bef2436c805879ac5ebdc5c3\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Disability Issues: My answer is, as I am sure the member will understand, the same as I have just given to the primary question No. 11.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226864eb69bf5d47f8adc2275b336a96cf\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister explain to the New Zealand public or to the family of the intellectually disabled man who was dragged out of bed and kicked on the floor by drunk staff at a Levin community home that he received better care in the community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a67015def4e24823ae35d2dd10f1137d\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Self-evidently, I cannot. That was a disgraceful act. Let us now rehearse the facts. As soon as it happened a doctor was called. Then, soon after, the police were advised. Then, soon after that, the four people involved were given the boot. Three of them happened to be people who used to work, as it happens, in the Kimberley Centre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229798c5f8603d4a20bb9e6a38e1749314\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I asked the Minister a very specific question of how he can explain that that particular person received better care in the community than at the centre. The Minister failed to address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d0d86d7397644a88e16a4ec1aacbd5b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister did not; he actually quite specifically addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250f4c506aa3d45bcbfbe0db37f910d86\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the majority of former Kimberley Centre residents require general anaesthetic in order for dental treatment to be performed, and can she assure us that all former residents are, in fact, receiving adequate oral health care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281f76c634fff400b9f4283f58bdfdf50\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to advise that I am not up to speed on the dental therapy for residents who are out of the Kimberley Centre. I would be very happy to answer the question if the member would like to put down an oral or a written question around that to the Minister for Disability Issues or to the Minister of Health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e8cebcafa1943c2b03d06480332b75a\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister failed to act on the concerns of the Kimberley Residents Support Group (Hawke\u2019s Bay), who are worried not only by the lack of quality support but also by the unusually high number of deaths of disabled people who have left the Kimberley Centre, including at least one where there remains a coroner\u2019s inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9e266f754f640f48db72b35fc94ef7c\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a matter of fact that a number of former Kimberley Centre residents are elderly. It is also a matter of fact that a change in circumstances can be disturbing to people, which is why this process has been managed extremely carefully over a very long time. It may interest the member to know that just over a hundred families were surveyed on how they thought the transition process had gone. Those survey results were made available to me, the Minister of Health, in January of this year. Seventy-two percent of the families who responded said they thought the management of the transition was \u201Cexcellent\u201D. A further 26 percent said it was good. When we add 72 and 26 together, we have 98 percent of the people who are involved saying we are doing not badly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2ef5a04034f42acac795d87dfc207d8\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Minister learnt from four incidents involving carers and residents in Kapiti homes in 2006, and now this horrific, drunken attack on a vulnerable disabled resident in Levin; and what assurances can the Minister give to the residents and their families that they will be safely cared for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236ebcb93e3e04c5286fd28702cb875eb\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: This was a cowardly act. It is indefensible. It is something that should not have happened. I hope the cops find the carers, I hope they decide to prosecute them, and I hope the prosecution is successful, at least on the basis of what I know about what happened. It is not defensible. I do not seek to defend it, but it has happened. I will just say again, in case it has not sunk in, that three of the four people who were sacked used to work in the Kimberley Centre, which some people in this House seem to want to revisit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95ac77171ac4b98b2a1472d619f75be\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: How can he be so confident that care in the community is better than care at the Kimberley Centre, as he just told this House, given the drunken staff incident where a resident was beaten up in a community home in Levin, incidents at Kapiti, unusually high death rates in the Hawke\u2019s Bay, and the United Nations investigation into a shocking case of a resident placed far away from his family?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd773c8cb30a407ea565ccf76f8d6047\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure what the member refers to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378060f37fc14528bfe16b4f92103a90\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: How can the member be so confident? That is what the member told the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b03a6306376545c49ee047105e35d10c\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure what the member refers to regarding a United Nations inquiry, so let me not attempt to answer that part of his question. I am sure about care in the community, for these two reasons. Let me repeat them. I have never found anyone who has been in a New Zealand institution\u2014any patient or client with an intellectual disability, a physical disability, a mental disability, or more than one disability\u2014who wants to go back, not one. So those people have voted to say that institutions are no good. But what is more, I have had the results of a survey of just over 100 families reported to me in January of this year. I am sorry that I find myself repeating myself, but 72 percent of those families said the transition was excellent, 26 percent said the transition was good, and 2 percent offered neither of those accolades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe1dab1f94df40f39d92cde052b394e9\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table three papers. The first from the Dominion Post of 1 May, \u201CDisabled patient kicked at party\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a78323ba4fb48908625a1081a69aee0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ccada7a427434ea9953064784a8d64\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: The second is from the Dominion Post of 2 April, \u201C \u2018Shocking\u2019 disabled case referred to UN\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d67b06d969481fb9f467eea0267aed\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f4afedc974c4628a4fb3f51903ff948\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: The third is a Kimberley residents\u2019 support group paper, \u201CHow many Kimberley residents died during the process of closing this centre?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224836c116bfe044f88d27651e38600a78\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002241e35210a3c64b1f9326c0a59a0a46f5\u0022\u003EHuman Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002225cc5ad6d9c641e3947f54cfd48222e1\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f490cffb0a8a4f458cb6cc2b1f09ff42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f490cffb0a8a4f458cb6cc2b1f09ff42\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. It is my privilege as Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs to move an amendment that will remove the last statutory discrimination against New Zealand women, thereby enabling the Government to lift the reservation to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, or CEDAW, which we have in place due to that provision. I want to read the reservation to the House. It states: \u201CThe Government of New Zealand, the Government of the Cook Islands, and the Government of Niue reserve the right not to apply the provisions of the Convention in so far as they are inconsistent with policies relating to recruitment into or service in (a) the Armed Forces which reflect either directly or indirectly the fact that members of such forces are required to serve on armed forces aircraft or vessels and in situations involving armed combat or (b) the law enforcement forces which reflect either directly or indirectly the fact that members of such forces are required to serve in situations involving violence or threat of violence.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhen the Human Rights Act was passed in 1993, the New Zealand armed forces still had a policy of not allowing women to serve in combat roles, and therefore the Government needed to include an exemption for the armed forces covering sexual discrimination in employment matters. Since then attitudes and practices have moved on. In 2002 the Chief of Defence Force lifted all restrictions on the deployment of women in combat roles and, indeed, asked service chiefs to establish procedures for the employment of women in trades from which they were previously excluded, with a goal of full integration by 2005. The Navy had already opened the diving branch to women in February 2000, thus removing the last restricted trade within that service. For the Army, the issue was more complex and it followed a phased implementation. During the debate on this bill people have asked why it has taken so long to bring this matter before the House. There is the answer to that question. A phased change in practice in our armed forces has required us to take to this time. The purpose for which the exemption under section 33 of the Human Rights Act was granted by this House no longer exists, which is why we are now able to remove it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis is a relatively small change but an important one symbolically, because it completes the objective of equality before the law for New Zealand women. With this change New Zealand will be able to meet its international obligations in relation to the rights of women, and we will be able to move quickly to remove the one remaining reservation under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women\u2014and, in fact, the national interest analysis has already been referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for its consideration. We will be able, at last, to confirm that New Zealand gives unqualified support to the convention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women is often described as an international bill of rights for women. The convention was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1979. It defines discrimination against women as \u201Cany distinction, exclusion or restriction made on the basis of sex which has the effect or purpose of impairing or nullifying the recognition, enjoyment or exercise by women, irrespective of their marital status, on a basis of equality of men and women, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, civil or any other field.\u201D By accepting the convention, States commit themselves to undertake a series of measures to end discrimination against women in all forms, including incorporating the principle of equality of men and women in their legal system, abolishing all discriminatory laws, and adopting appropriate laws that prohibit discrimination against women. States also commit themselves to establish tribunals and other public institutions to ensure the effective protection of women against discrimination and the elimination of all acts of discrimination against women by persons, organisations, or enterprises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ECountries that have ratified or acceded to the convention are legally bound to put its provisions into practice. They are also committed to submitting national reports at least every 4 years on measures they have taken to comply with their treaty obligations. New Zealand has already submitted its written report\u2014its sixth report\u2014and will be appearing in front of the UN Committee on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women in August this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s reservation to the convention also extends to the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau, as members will note from the comments I made before. Tokelau and Niue are covered by the law change, and they have agreed to be associated with New Zealand\u2019s action to withdraw the reservation. The Cook Islands has now acceded to the convention in its own right, and it may withdraw its reservation independently if it wishes to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI should point out that although we can be proud of achieving this change in our law and of our ability now to fully comply with the convention, it is also important to recognise that full equality before the law and full equality in practice are often two different things. It is relatively easy to change the law, especially when, as in this case, we follow, rather than lead, practice. It often takes much longer to change the culture, attitudes, and behaviour that lead to discrimination occurring in practice. We can see that lag in areas like equal pay for work of equal value, where discrimination on the basis of sex has actually been unlawful in terms of our legislative framework for over 30 years, but still a stubborn pay gap remains\u2014a gap that cannot be fully explained by women taking time out of the workforce and gender segregation in employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe armed forces have themselves recognised that simply saying to women they are no longer prohibited from taking up a particular role is not enough. They have been making the other necessary changes, which range from changes to equipment, to removing strength barriers to such employment, to measures to prevent bullying and harassment, including sexual harassment. Even with those changes, the pace at which women enter these non-traditional roles will be slow\u2014just as they have been slow to enter traditionally male trades and professions in other parts of the economy. Nevertheless, society will continue to change, and over time I am sure we will see many more women in our armed forces, including more of them in leadership roles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIn recommending this legislation to the House, I would like to again acknowledge those who have helped to bring us to this point. The leadership of the New Zealand Defence Force deserve credit for taking action to change the force\u2019s own rules and procedures in order to remove discrimination against women. I want to thank three women officers who came to Parliament today to reflect that this was an important day. I acknowledge Warrant Officer A J Pereira from the Army, Corporal Anj Ball from the Air Force, and Lieutenant Paula McKenzie from the Navy. I thank them for coming today to acknowledge that this is an important day for women in New Zealand\u2014and not just for those in the armed forces. Between them, those three officers have served in the Sinai, in East Timor, and in Afghanistan, and I appreciate their willingness to represent women in each arm of the New Zealand Defence Force on this important occasion. I also acknowledge the service they undertake on behalf of their country alongside their male colleagues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the member for Waitakere, Lynne Pillay, who deserves particular credit for bringing this matter before the House as a member\u2019s bill. I thank her for allowing the Government to take over the bill. This is the speech she should have been giving, and I am very grateful I have the opportunity to deliver it in her place. The reason the Government wanted to bring the bill before the House was that it was trapped behind the debate on section 59 of the Crimes Act on members\u2019 day, and there was no guarantee that we could have had it passed through all of its stages in time for the reporting to the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women in August this year. So I thank Lynne Pillay on behalf of the women of New Zealand, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI particularly thank my colleagues the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Defence, who, too, were pleased to see this bill adopted as a Government bill. Finally, I commend the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for its constructive consideration of the bill, and all members of the House for their support of the proposition that no New Zealand woman should be discriminated against. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt will be with considerable pride, as New Zealand\u2019s Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs, that I will report that we have expedited the steps necessary for the withdrawal of our remaining reservation to the convention, as asked of us in the committee\u2019s last report to New Zealand. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u002235e59220950f469494faf7753bdd25bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235e59220950f469494faf7753bdd25bb\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand to the third reading of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. I commend the Minister Lianne Dalziel, who has just taken her seat, for the detailed explanations of the time frame of this bill, and why it has taken the bill so long to finally come to the House. I commend Lynne Pillay for bringing the bill, which was originally in her name, to the House, as well. But, as I say, Lianne Dalziel demonstrated why it had taken this long to come before the House. I certainly have raised that issue in my previous contributions to the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EAs has been said, the purpose of the bill is to repeal section 33 of the Human Rights Act 1993 to allow women employed in the armed forces to participate in active combat roles. In so doing, the last exemption for sexual discrimination in employment matters applying to the military is removed. National supports that\u2014of course we support it. Given New Zealand\u2019s record, in any event, in the human rights area, I suppose it is surprising that it has taken until 2007 for this legislation to come about. But we have a good record, and this bill will help it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EBasically, it will enable women\u2014in the military at least\u2014to know that in a legislative sense they are fully recognised for their contribution to our armed forces. As the numbers of female participants increase\u2014and maybe this will be a spur for those numbers to rise, now that they will be fully recognised\u2014then we all benefit. New Zealand will benefit. I salute the women who are currently in the military, in all three services: the army, the navy, and the air force. I admire them. Like all participants in the military they enter because they have a desire to serve New Zealand, often overseas and in areas\u2014as currently\u2014where, although they go under this Labour Government\u2019s banner of a peace-keeping role, that peace-keeping requires nonetheless that they are fully trained, and fully alert as if in a combat role anyway. As I say, I salute all of the women in New Zealand\u2019s military. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EI want to make reference, just as a matter of interest, to what Tariana Turia, the M\u0101ori Party member, went into in some detail, I think in the first reading. It is interesting that in M\u0101ori tradition there was never any discrimination at all in the valuable roles that women played. So M\u0101ori history and tradition are replete with women serving in times of warfare along with their male counterparts. Women were leaders in some of the famous battles. So I suppose from a M\u0101ori perspective we might stand here and say that it has certainly taken a long time for this discrimination to be removed. In the Land Wars in the 1860s, in New Zealand\u2019s early history, M\u0101ori women were to the fore in battles against the British Army. So in standing here, a M\u0101ori person, as I am, I might say that this legislation is long overdue. Be that as it may, if we take our history beyond just the officially recognised wars\u2014the First World War, the Second World War, and so on\u2014we can say that women have been to the fore in warfare and in the military, in New Zealand since the 1860s. That is certainly how I see it. Our M\u0101ori history is full of very competent, capable women leaders\u2014women in the military who played a very important role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe only other point, I suppose, that I wish to make reference to\u2014and I have raised it in previous contributions, as well\u2014is the fact that the New Zealand demographic shows there are actually more women in New Zealand than men and, in looking forward, we know too that the workforce of the future is also M\u0101ori. So I hope that the military has strategies in place that seek in earnest to lift the numbers of females in the military, because they have proven that they are as capable and competent as anyone else. And although the numbers are rising, they are going up very slowly. The percentage for women in the military in 2005 was 16.2, and in 2006 it was 16.5. That percentage does not match the percentage of women in the overall population. Given that there is now no discrimination of any kind against women serving in the military, as I say, I will be interested to know whether there are strategies in place that seek to lift those numbers. They are too low at the moment. They are rising, but in my view they are not rising quickly enough. Now that we have removed this last vestige of discrimination, it may be that that is a spur for New Zealand women generally to realise that we are serious in recognising their valued contribution to the military. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe Minister referred also to the ability that New Zealand will now have to be fully compliant with our obligations to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. As a former Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs, I am very pleased that that compliance is about to happen. Despite what some may think about National and its attitude to that committee, it has had a history of some very fine people being involved in developing our participation in the committee\u2014namely, the former Governor-General, Dame Silvia Cartwright, who has moved on to even greater responsible things. She was a guiding light, a mover and a shaker, in the development of New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003ESo it is good in all respects that not only do we recognise the desire of New Zealand women to be fully recognised for the role they play in our employment environment\u2014not least in the military\u2014but we recognise that we are taking a modern move today. It fits in with where women are, and with where women want to be\u2014recognised on merit and their abilities. New Zealand is a leader in that regard. At the same time, as I say, we satisfy some international obligations, so National supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022916668486d5a42639a0416aad6fe643e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022916668486d5a42639a0416aad6fe643e\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour\u2014Waitakere):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and speak in support of this bill. I acknowledge the previous speaker and commend her for her praise and support for the advancement of women, and for non-discrimination against women. I also put on record in this House that it is a pity that not all of her caucus share that view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI commend the Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs who spoke earlier today. She was very happy to take up this bill, which, it has been acknowledged, was previously a member\u2019s bill. She saw that not only would it make progression of the bill through the House faster and more efficient\u2014the longstanding debate on the Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill was holding up its progress on the Order Paper\u2014but also it would elevate the bill to the level I believe that it should have been at. I am really pleased for the support given by the Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs in bringing this bill forward, which was firstly my member\u2019s bill, but I really think the appropriate recognition for what the bill stands for is as a Government bill. So I am very happy to see it in its final stage and to speak to it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe bill is all about supporting and celebrating women. I would also like to commend this Government for supporting and celebrating a Ministry of Women\u2019s Affairs. This institution has been questioned by members in this House\u2014certainly not by members of this party, but by members of the National Opposition\u2014as to whether there is the need for such an organisation in New Zealand. I think there is no question about the work done in advocacy for women by the Ministry of Women\u2019s Affairs, and long may it continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for a very clear and affirming report on this bill, and for some common-sense recommendations that have enabled the bill to come back with all the principles that were the reasons for the bill unchanged. I also want to thank this House for the unanimous support this bill has received. Indeed, when a bill is about recognising rights that concern discrimination, sadly we often do not engage the full support of this House, but very happily this is not one of those occasions. I am most appreciative of the support of all parties for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWhen the Human Rights Act was passed in 1993, the New Zealand armed forces still had a policy of not allowing women to serve in combat roles. The Act provided an exemption for the armed forces that covered sexual discrimination in employment matters. I am very happy to say, and as Lianne Dalziel before me acknowledged, that the armed forces very progressively abandoned that policy in the year 2000, but the exemption in section 33 of the Human Rights Act remained. Although the provision about the right to discriminate has not been applied, it has still remained like a blot on our statute book. I am very pleased that we are now able to remove that blot, and quite rightfully put our status right up there where it should be for us, as New Zealanders, in leading the charge for women on the world stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWe are very proud of the fact that, as we know, New Zealand was the first country where women won the right to vote. Since that decision in September 1893, we have passed a comprehensive set of laws designed to protect human rights, not just for women but for all New Zealanders. I refer to Acts such as the Human Rights Act, the Care of Children Act, the Civil Union Act, the Relationships (Statutory References) Act, and the New Zealand Sign Language Act, and most recently we have had the Disabled Persons Employment Promotion Repeal Act. These can be seen as ongoing legislation that this Government and, indeed, former Governments have introduced to ensure that human rights in this country are in the place they should be\u2014that is, at the forefront. Unjustified discrimination is not acceptable in any society, least of all in New Zealand, which is leading the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ENew Zealand women have provided so much good service. I think it is quite fitting that this bill is in its final stages not long after Anzac Day. I think that whilst acknowledging that women did not take part in combative roles in the army in previous wars\u2014and that is not a sad thing\u2014it is also very appropriate to recognise the extraordinarily good role that women played, both in the forces and indeed in supporting their menfolk who were at the front line. So I think it is really significant that this bill is before the House at this time and, as I said before, I am very, very proud to stand in support of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EHistory shows that the armed forces have not been as progressive as the army is now. Like Lianne Dalziel, I want to acknowledge the three young women, representing each branch of the armed forces, who came to Parliament today. They were very heartened about the new legislation, although I have to say, happily, they were not aware of the discrimination. I think our women are already making up quite large numbers in the roles they are playing\u2014indeed, in our peacekeeping forces overseas\u2014and that is very good to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI cannot end without saying how proud I was when I went to a conference on the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, held in Geneva, and was able to talk about this bill before our Parliament to remove our final reservation. The meeting was an opportunity to talk about the role that members\u2019 bills can play in promoting change in legislation for women that may be discriminatory. Indeed, there were women representing many countries where there was much discrimination, so it was a very heartening and inspiring example for them. As I said before, it is even better to see this bill elevated to the level that it is at now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI believe that this bill is based on a belief in our society that unjustified discrimination on the basis of gender is indeed a thing of the past, as are racial discrimination and age discrimination. As I said before, this is not a controversial bill. It has engaged support from everyone in this House, and that is very much a commendable thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI also want to say very briefly that I attended an open day at Whenuapai very recently, and I acknowledge what a wonderful day it was. There was camaraderie and a very egalitarian relationship between the men and women officers, who were obviously enjoying the day. It was very clear to see that there was very much an equal relationship that extended from the ability to be promoted to just that ordinary way of relating as comrades in the armed forces. That really highlights how times have changed today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIn many of our institutions being a woman was not as easy; it was difficult. There were many barriers and many not too subtle ways of undermining the role that women played. I am really proud to say that certainly from what I have observed in the armed forces from the bottom up\u2014in the ranks, and between the comrades there\u2014that is not the case now. I think we have armed forces to feel very, very proud of, and I know that for these women and men who represent New Zealand so well, both here and overseas, this bill will enhance the role that women play. It is a pleasure to stand and speak in support of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00222711fd7dba7344ab8f5f699c6427695c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222711fd7dba7344ab8f5f699c6427695c\u0022\u003EDr WAYNE MAPP (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E National is pleased to support the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill, and I acknowledge the previous speaker, Lynne Pillay, for moving this legislative amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI will focus on three issues; firstly, the contribution that women play in the armed forces today. This issue is hugely important in the contemporary nature of peace enforcement, or of international deployments, where New Zealand has a particularly important role to play in building trust and confidence in the places where its peacekeepers are deployed. I know full well that our deep expertise in these areas is noted by other countries. I am absolutely sure\u2014in fact, I know for a fact\u2014that that is in no small part due to the cultural changes, both gender-based and, indeed, ethnicity-based, that New Zealand brings to contemporary deployments. That has been a very important part of New Zealand\u2019s contemporary role. This law recognises a reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EAnother issue I wish to talk to, however, is the issue of national interest as opposed to complying with a UN convention\u2014as important as those issues might be, in some areas. We should be passing law because it is in our own interests to do so, not because we are required to do so by some UN agency. That is an important point that this Government often neglects. It plays a completely slavish role: anything that the United Nations proposes, the Government just meekly and subserviently supports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EI bring to the House the point that recently the United Nations human rights organisation had to be completely reorganised. This should be one of the centrepieces of the United Nations. One of its roles, surely, is to defend human rights. But, in fact, the previous commission was so discredited, so bankrupt of observance to principle, that the UN itself, or, rather more accurately, those countries that have a deep commitment to human rights in practice\u2014as opposed to merely espousing the language of it\u2014felt they could no longer participate in that organisation, and that it had lost its fundamental purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ESo a new organisation was created to try to rectify that problem. Do members know what that new organisation has just done? It decided to single out Israel, of all the countries in the world, as a particularly grievous breach of extending full human rights to women. I guess the women of Saudi Arabia were particularly impressed with that decision. After all, everyone in this House knows that every woman in Saudi Arabia can vote, can drive a car, and has all the other rights that every other woman expects to have! That is, of course, something that I guess those women are looking forward to in anticipation, because in fact they do not have any of those rights. They are extensively discriminated against, both in practical terms and through the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EDid that UN body decide to make a point about that? No. So I guess this is one of the reasons why National takes perhaps not a sceptical approach, but not a slavish approach, either, that we should be passing a law like we are passing today because it is in our interests. The fact that it happens to also comply with at least the best intentions of the United Nations is a good thing. But I would like the Government to recognise, at least occasionally, that the UN has some deep and grievous faults, and that slavish adherence to every single request by the United Nations does not necessarily serve this country\u2019s interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E We have only to think of the recent visit by Mr Stavenhagen, who had exactly the same myopic approach. New Zealand is clearly one of the worst offenders\u2014in his view\u2014in treating people equally. It is that kind of statement that causes many people in New Zealand, and not just in the National Party, to ask: \u201CFor heaven\u2019s sake, where is the balance?\u201D. So I say to the Government that when it deals with laws like this\u2014and I suppose the Minister specifically mentioned it; interestingly enough, the previous speaker did not do it quite so much\u2014it needs to take a more critical approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EWe on the Opposition side of the House have always worked to improve the rights of women and, indeed, of all people in New Zealand. I need to remind Ms Pillay that, in fact, it was the previous National Government that passed the Human Rights Act 1993, and that was a very important advance for the rights of all people, including women. Yes, there were things that had to be fixed up, and I for one am pleased that this final discrimination has been removed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EMy final point is this, however: we should not pretend that these kinds of changes do not have their own kinds of risks. We have only to look at what happened with the capture of the British sailors in Iran. A great deal of pressure was put upon the woman sailor in that situation. I acknowledge that ultimately Iran did the right thing and released the sailors, and it perhaps did not particularly mistreat them, but there are many countries that would\u2014and indeed have. Non-State actors are particularly notorious for doing this. We should be aware that when we say we are extending our human rights legislation so that it is complete, we are also putting people under a degree of risk whereby our people will perhaps be treated differently by those people who do not have such a developed view as we have, and that some quite bad things can happen. I am fully aware that when all New Zealanders\u2014men and women\u2014join the armed forces, they do know those risks and they take them on with open eyes. I guess that is part and parcel of our having a full volunteer force. But, of course, circumstances can change, as they have in the past. So we need at least to have our eyes open to this risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EYes, it is a good day for women today. Yes, it is important that our armed forces provide full opportunities to women. Women have felt that that aspect is important in the armed forces, and they look to this Parliament to support them in their endeavours. In closing, I am pleased to say that National is pleased to be able to support this Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. But I do put those particular caveats on record, because we do look at these issues a little more carefully, I suggest, than the Government, and we do not just accept every UN pronouncement in quite the uncritical way that the Government does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00223b1670049da2464a8ea8e1180c151470\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b1670049da2464a8ea8e1180c151470\u0022\u003ERON MARK (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak in favour of this Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill, and to signify that we will, again, be supporting this bill through its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI will just mention a couple of facts that are interesting. I want to put on the parliamentary record some statistics I have that show that the contribution made to the defence of New Zealand by the women of New Zealand is quite substantial. Some people have reflected that it is not high enough, but servicewomen comprise some 16.7 percent of the regular forces as a whole. It is interesting to note that almost 23 percent of the Navy\u2019s strength is women, that women make up almost 14 percent of the Army, and that almost 17 percent of the Air Force\u2019s strength is servicewomen. I know from the recent visit to Afghanistan by the Minister of Defence, on which I accompanied him, that something like 22 women are deployed in the Bamian province in a number of roles there, ranging from medical to combat appointments. It is interesting to note that as far back as, I think, early 2007, something like 82 servicewomen were deployed on land-based operations around the world, and 84 servicewomen were deployed on Her Majesty\u2019s New Zealand ships. I guess that says that since about the year 2000 in particular, when the Defence Force moved away from adhering to the policy prescribed in law and actually started deploying women in combat roles, the numbers of women have steadily grown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI shall refer to my own experience in the military. I became an officer cadet in 1978, having joined the Army at the age of 16 in 1971. In my intake of officer cadets at Wai\u014Duru there were five women. I think only two graduated, and one was discharged for medical reasons. The intake before mine\u2014what was know then as an officer cadet training unit\u2014had five women, as well. One of them has only recently retired, and that was Lieutenant Colonel Clare Bennett. I subsequently met her many years later, when I was visiting the Solomon Islands as a member of Parliament. She was over there leading a recruiting team, trying to get more people to join our Defence Force. I understand that she had a very good, long, and enjoyable military career.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note that back in 1971 we had the Women\u2019s Royal Army Corps. All women who joined the Army went into the Women\u2019s Royal Army Corps. It was a separate corps, women from which were trained in various trades, skills, and professions. They were commanded separately, but were assigned and attached to units.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThat corps was disbanded sometime in, I think, the 1980s. That move was made to integrate women fully and completely into all corps and trades, removing any barriers of sexual discrimination. The move was challenged, debated, and argued, and many people disagreed with it. They did not think men were good commanders of women; they thought the best commanders of women were women. It was argued that women could not pull the wool over women\u2019s eyes, but they could definitely pull the wool over men\u2019s eyes, and did so on frequent occasions. I guess, regardless of the argument, the decision was made, and it subsequently, over time, has proven to be a good decision, and now we are where we are today, removing the final barrier for women, which is the barrier to their active engagement, active employment in combat roles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that, traditionally, when we have talked about combat roles we have talked about the teeth arms corps. If I might refer to the army again, the teeth arms corps were the armoured corps, infantry, artillery, and the corps of engineers. That is an interesting one, because people hardly reflect upon the corps of engineers as being a combat corps. My partner was a territorial force officer in the corps of engineers, which is quite curious, because I was in the Royal New Zealand Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, which made me a non-combatant. If I look at it that way, she was a combatant and I was not. Was that discriminatory? I do not know. No, it was just choice. There was nothing to stop me moving, as I did, into other areas and serving time in combat corps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is interesting listening to the debate and hearing some women stand up and lament that there are not enough women in the armed forces. I say to those women who have said that that Heather Roy has joined the armed forces, and I am looking right now at Jackie Blue, who served in the armed forces. I say to Lynne Pillay: \u201CJoin up right now.\u201D The recruiting doors are open, and the armed forces would be keen to have her in the service, like Heather Roy. They would be keen to put Lynne Pillay through recruit training, and they would be keen to see her serve her country in a combat role. If there is one way for that MP in this House to do something about what she considers to be the flagging numbers, the insufficient numbers, of women in the defence forces and in the combat corps, it is simply to take a leaf out of Heather Roy\u2019s book and join\u2014it is very simple, actually\u2014and lead by example. She does not need to sit here and lament the number of women who are not joining or do not have the opportunity. A member of this House has taken the opportunity available to her and has demonstrated leadership by example; she has done it, and there is nothing to stop any women in the Labour caucus from doing the same thing. They should stop talking about it and just do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI also would like to take a little bit of the fluff off the top of this. I notice that the Minister Lianne Dalziel made the comment that it is one thing to bring equality in law and another to bring it in practice\u2014that the two are different things. That is true, but in the defence forces, might I suggest, those barriers have been substantially dealt with. I have to compliment Major General Jerry Matep\u0101rae for the very positive and affirmative steps he is taking, and the former Chief of Defence Force, Bruce Ferguson, for the very positive and affirmative steps he took, during their tenure in that office. Such moves are not symbolic. They are not simply moves in law. They are indeed reflected in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is, I guess, a matter of choice that we have only one female infantry platoon commander. I say that we should not denigrate the service of women who choose not to take a combat role, who choose to be in the medical corps or the transport corps, or to work as cooks and chefs. Those support roles are vital to the ability of the combat corps to do their job. It was Montgomery who said that the electrical and mechanical engineers put the punch in the army\u2019s fist\u2014that without them the army did not roll. He knew full well from the battle of the Eighth Army and the desert campaign exactly how important electrical and mechanical engineers were to him. Likewise, other generals have said that an army marches on its stomach. We should not denigrate the cooks and the chefs who feed the troops, because without them the troops would not be there to fight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt is good that we are removing this last vestige of sexual discrimination. It is good that the nation, all of us, have moved beyond what were chivalrous views and attitudes that are these days described as sexist views and attitudes. It is good that we now open up the full range of career opportunities to all New Zealanders, men or women. But we should always remind ourselves of the fact that it is a choice as to whether a man serves in the infantry or in the logistics corps, just as it is a choice as to whether a woman serves in the artillery or in the medical corps. That is the way it should always be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u002274bd0b968208482c8a022196c2424e94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274bd0b968208482c8a022196c2424e94\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Like all other parties in the House, the Green Party will be supporting the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. Members can call me old-fashioned, but I am not someone who celebrates or regards as a great victory the fact that this legislation will allow and perhaps encourage women into active combat roles in the armed forces. I do not see this as some huge victory or human right. I think it is sad that we send women or, indeed, men into active combat roles in the Army, but, sadly, that is the reality of our world today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party acknowledges that if we want women in the armed forces and we welcome the fact that they are there, it does not seem right that they be excluded from combat roles, providing, as the previous speaker, Ron Mark, has said, that they are not obligated to go into those combat roles but, rather, that it is a choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E We also acknowledge that women are playing a significant role in our armed forces. We hope the role they play will be even more significant in time. As the previous speaker has already pointed out, at the moment only 16.7 percent of regular forces are made up of servicewomen. But we have some significant examples of servicewomen in this House. Heather Roy and, I did not realise, Dr Jackie Blue have played their part and contributed in the armed forces. In particular, women have been making a fantastic contribution in peacekeeping roles, particularly in the Pacific. We really celebrate the fact that women are undertaking work in peacekeeping all around the world. We think that is fantastic. If women therefore want to go on and put themselves into combat forces we will support that choice, even though we are sad that they are required to make such a choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EIf we are going to send women into active combat roles in the front line of our armed forces and in the Navy, and so forth, we will have to provide greater protection for women in those situations. There is some accountability from our Government if we are going to send them there. I am thinking, in particular, of the terrible tragedy that has befallen many of our armed forces who were exposed to Agent Orange in the Viet Nam War and who have been exposed to other problems, such as carcinogens, in other combat roles. We know that women are particularly vulnerable to things like Agent Orange and to chemicals and pesticides, and that these can be passed down to future generations through the foetus. So I think that if we are going to send women into the front line, we will have to make sure we do not expose them and future generations to unknown risks and hazards. We will have to take that very much into account when we send them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EOur troops have already been exposed to depleted uranium in the Middle East, and I think possibly in Afghanistan, as well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ed08c504a94d058639c3e596e1881a\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Kosovo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd518488678465093c2570cd5839470\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014and in Kosovo, as Ron Mark is pointing out to me. We know that if just one tiny, tiny fragment of depleted uranium goes into someone\u2019s body, that can result in horrendous birth deformities and horrendous health problems for the rest of that person\u2019s life. I do not want to expose any woman in New Zealand\u2014or, for that matter, any man\u2014to substances such as depleted uranium. I want us to learn the lessons from the exposure of our armed services to Agent Orange and to make sure we do not send our women\u2014or, for that matter, our men\u2014into combat zones where their future and the future generations of New Zealanders will be irrevocably affected by exposure to things like depleted uranium and Agent Orange. With those concerns, I express the Green Party\u2019s support for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1cc664af8b242369eefc7498570a832\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1cc664af8b242369eefc7498570a832\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare. The M\u0101ori Party also supports the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. But I too have grave reservations. Members may call me old-fashioned\u2014as the previous speaker said\u2014but I do not know whether human rights considerations and the fight for human rights have properly taken into account the role of women as nurturers of their families. I know particularly that the issue of M\u0101ori women on the front line, and the historical role that M\u0101ori women have played within M\u0101ori society, have not been properly addressed in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI also know that if I were ever to have to be in a war, I would be more than happy to have my older sister and younger sister alongside me, because when it comes right down to it they are a lot tougher than my whanaunga Mahara Okeroa on the other side of the House there. I would back my sisters to back me in any situation. But that is only in a situation where we are pushed into that arena. On the question of whether I would be comfortable about accepting women going into that situation on a normal basis and being thrust into that situation, I do not know that that is necessarily something I would personally go along with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis is a speech that the honourable Tariana Turia was supposed to make. She has had to leave the building, so I am delivering it. In May 1999 M\u0101kere Harawira\u2014no relation of mine\u2014stood at the Hague Appeal for Peace Conference and said: \u201CIt has been said that when women regain their rightful place within the world, wars will cease. It has also been said that women will refuse to give up their sons and daughters to war, wars will cease.\u201D As she points out, women have always occupied a central place in any discussion of war\u2014and, indeed, peace. So it is not unusual to be considering the status of women in the context of the armed forces, when we consider our histories throughout Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWomen have served in the armed forces since 1914. It was not until 2000 that the restrictions that prevented women from serving in combat roles were formally rescinded by a defence order. Indeed, during World War II some 10,000 women served in the armed forces. As of 1 July last year some 2,555 women were serving in our defence forces. The greatest number, of course\u201442 percent\u2014were employed as civilians, but 24 percent were in the Army, 17 percent in the Navy, and 16 percent in the Air Force. So the reality is that this debate is not really about the question of whether women should be allowed to serve; instead, the bill is a technicality, legislating to provide for what is now in operational practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe bill amends section 33 of the Human Rights Act 1993, to remove an exemption that allows discrimination against women by preventing them from serving in combat positions. It is, then, in many ways a mere formality, as New Zealand no longer prevents women from serving at the front line. But it is a formality that is important, insomuch as the removal of the exemption will enable us to fully ratify our obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. The bill allows the legislation to be updated to fit with changes in practice, and it also allows compliance with international law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWhy is that so important? Quite simply, it is because New Zealand\u2019s reputation has been significantly tarnished as a good international citizen. Our exemplary human rights record was rubbished on 22 March 2005, when the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination released its finding on the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004. The committee consisted of 18 independent experts in the area of human rights. It was petitioned by Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu, the Treaty Tribes Coalition, and Te R\u016Bnanga o Te Arawa to invoke its early-warning measures and urgent-procedure jurisdiction to require New Zealand to withdraw the foreshore and seabed legislation. Just to put that into context, the early-warning measures and urgent procedures are not often invoked. Over recent years they have been invoked for situations in Darfur, Israel, Guyana, Laos, the Ivory Coast, and Surinam. Now, to our eternal shame, they have been invoked right here in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe finding of the committee is now on the international record. This House must recall that the committee concluded that the foreshore and seabed legislation: \u201Cappears to contain discriminatory aspects against the Maori, in particular in its extinguishment of the possibility of establishing Maori customary titles over the foreshore and seabed and its failure to provide a guaranteed right of redress, notwithstanding the State party\u2019s obligations under articles 5 and 6 of the Convention.\u201D That was not all. It was then only a matter of time before the UN called upon its rapporteur to pay a visit down under and report on the situation here in Aotearoa. That report concluded that the passage of the foreshore and seabed legislation was an important human rights issue for M\u0101ori and all New Zealanders, and indeed that it was a backwards step for M\u0101ori in extinguishing all M\u0101ori rights to the foreshore and seabed. So the status of Aotearoa in the field of human rights has been dramatically and adversely affected by retrograde legislation in the last few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is therefore pleased to continue to support this human rights bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d16e0b4e83cf4b8a9927853315ef5d05\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bea4d59a615b4f8ba7dbe68befc697c8\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014getting back to the bill\u2014before the House tonight in an attempt to somehow begin to remedy our tragic human rights record, which includes censure from the United Nations Committee Against Torture for our poor treatment of remand prisoners, particularly youth remand prisoners. We note also that five of the six submissions received by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee supported this bill because of the significance of the commitment in making New Zealand a signatory to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women without reservation. In practical terms, that means that this bill removes the only reservation blocking Aotearoa from full participation in the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and that has to be a good thing in terms of restoring our reputation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe National Council of Women supported the bill because it will not only achieve international compliance but also be in line with current practice in the defence forces. We acknowledge here the good work the defence forces have done in addressing employment opportunities for women in their ranks. The defence forces have made substantial progress in gender integration over recent years, earning praise in a report dated October 2005 for achieving a significant culture change\u2014a change that was desperately needed. The Burton report of 1998 followed a high-profile Navy sexual harassment case taken to the Human Rights Commission, which urged the need for change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt appears that change has occurred on a wide-scale basis. Harassment has decreased dramatically from 129 complaints in 1997 to just 34 in 2005, and there are increasing numbers of women in all three branches of the defence forces. Women in the Navy ranks have risen from 12.3 percent to 20 percent since 1990, and Air Force numbers have increased to 17 percent over the same period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220831e382c68544d292349fa31f1ca132\u0022\u003ERon Mark\u003C/span\u003E: 22.9 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221244a0e1b92f49b9832a74d380aec3f7\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: To 22.9 percent. So we also take this opportunity tonight to praise the New Zealand Defence Force, and we extend our appreciation to Lieutenant General Jeremiah Matep\u0101rae, son of Kahungunu and T\u016Bwharetoa, who holds the country\u2019s top military post as the Chief of Defence Force. Tangata whenua are proud of Jerry. He is the highest-ranked M\u0101ori officer in the New Zealand Defence Force and also the youngest military chief to head the New Zealand Army. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe believe the progress the Defence Force has made in recent years to ensure that women can enjoy the same employment opportunities as men is impressive, and we look forward to the same advancement of equal employment opportunities being extended towards M\u0101ori. The issue is about ensuring the incentives and measures are in place to achieve cultural, systemic, and attitudinal change, continuous improvement, and the journey towards institutional cultural competency. Numbers show that M\u0101ori are strongly represented in the Army and Navy, but not in the Air Force. Comparatively, M\u0101ori are overrepresented in the non-officer ranks, including that of senior NCO, but are strongly under-represented at the officer level. So we look forward to a companion bill coming forward in the House to sustain progress in Aotearoa\u2014that is, the Human Rights (M\u0101ori Officers in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, we in the M\u0101ori Party are happy to support this bill in order to ensure that Aotearoa can improve its questionable international reputation in human rights and can also keep up with current practice. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca0e5f3150614e3e9362a89c1bdbc84d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca0e5f3150614e3e9362a89c1bdbc84d\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of ACT New Zealand to speak on the third reading of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. I am delighted to say that ACT will be supporting this bill, at two levels. Firstly, because it is the right thing to do from our political party\u2019s point of view, and, secondly, at a very personal level, I am delighted as a serving territorial soldier to see that at last this area is being addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThis bill is in fact a very simple bill. It will correct an anomaly that has existed in our law for many years. It will also see compliance with international law, which is very important and something that I think the New Zealand Defence Force is very keen to see, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWomen have for many years participated not only in the armed forces\u2014we have heard the numbers involved from many members and I will not repeat them\u2014but also in overseas deployments and have been serving in the world\u2019s hot spots. I would like to reassure Sue Kedgley, who raised some very valid points about women and men serving overseas, that this is already the way things are. Women are significantly contributing to defence and to the serving of their country, and this law will just see that gap, that anomaly that exists in the law, rectified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI think very few would doubt that women have added significantly to the Defence Force since their involvement. In those very early days, I think\u2014and probably my colleague Ron Mark will back this up\u2014it was pretty hard for women in the Army. They were very much a minority and considered as such. But, as time has gone on, that has changed significantly\u2014in fact, out of sight. I have to say that since my involvement with the Army, which has been just over a year long now, I have not suffered at all. I have not even really seen or experienced any adverse comment or effect as a woman in the armed forces. I think everybody would agree that this is very much as things should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWomen have been adding significantly to the Defence Force for many years, and have been deployed. Even the two speakers before me who have apologetically confessed to being old-fashioned and not really approving of women\u2019s involvement in the armed forces would not doubt that women have added significantly to this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWomen are, just as men are these days, judged on competence in the Defence Force. I have spent time with the Army, but I have also visited the Navy and spent a little time with the Air Force. In each of these areas competence is absolutely the final benchmark by which everybody is measured, no matter what gender he or she is. To join any of the services, to go on courses, to train, and to deploy, there are levels of competence that must be met. Nobody goes on an overseas deployment, nobody is sent by our country to a troubled hot spot around the world\u2014or, indeed, on peacekeeping missions\u2014unless he or she meets that desired level of competence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003ESo it is not just a matter of sending our womenfolk away with our menfolk to war, to peacekeeping missions, and on overseas deployments. It is a matter of each and every one of those servicemen and servicewomen meeting a particular level of fitness, having the necessary skills, and meeting the competence levels that are required for each and every one of our people who go overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThere is also a very practical reason for supporting this bill and for addressing the human rights side of this particular legislation. It is an issue that I raised in the second reading. In days gone by there has been an issue of female combatants having served overseas and, having been injured, then being ineligible for war disablement pensions because of their gender. Because our law has defined combatants in the past as male\u2014and until this legislation is passed that is still the case\u2014it has meant, sadly, in a couple of cases, that some women have been ineligible to receive war disablement pensions from our Government. This, of course, is something that is absolutely unpardonable. From this very practical position, it is important that the human rights aspect of women serving is addressed, and addressed urgently. I think nobody would find that a satisfactory state of affairs, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAs I said, we do have a number of women serving overseas, and we have many overseas at the moment. Ron Mark mentioned some women serving in Bamian. The territorials are also making up most of the complement of those serving in the Solomon Islands at the moment as part of Operation RAMSI. I know that one of the soldiers who has just returned from serving a 4-month deployment there is a woman. Our territorials are actually doing slightly better than our Regular Force colleagues when it comes to female presence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EFor the future, particularly when the Territorial Force is called in to supplement our overseas deployments and overseas missions and to stand side by side with the Regular Force soldiers in the Army, it will become more and more likely that there will be women involved in those deployments and in those missions. That alone is reason enough to put this legislation forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI congratulate Lynne Pillay, who was the initial instigator of the bill, and Lianne Dalziel on picking it up as Government Minister responsible for the bill. As I say, ACT will be supporting this bill. We are pleased that every party in this House is doing so. It is the right and proper thing to do and, from a very personal perspective, I am delighted to see it come before the House and pass unanimously, as it will do very shortly. On behalf of the women serving in the armed forces in New Zealand I also thank those members who have stood and made very kind comments about the contribution that women have made to the Defence Force. In this day and age that is right and proper. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022 data-id=\u002243bc270316c043edb1148415bf88fe59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243bc270316c043edb1148415bf88fe59\u0022\u003ELESLEY SOPER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As a Labour MP who started her inaugural parliamentary speech by stating that she stood here as a proud southern woman, a feminist, and the previous women\u2019s vice-president of the Labour Party, I am delighted to join with the Minister of Women\u2019s Affairs, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, and my colleague Lynne Pillay in speaking on the third reading of the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay, the member for Waitakere, is to be particularly commended for bringing this matter before the House as a member\u2019s bill, and all my Government colleagues are to be thanked for supporting its adoption as a Government bill, especially the Hon Mark Burton, the Minister of Justice, and the Hon Phil Goff, the Minister of Defence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003ESome may say that this bill brings a small change, and in one way that is true. The bill amends the Human Rights Act 1993 in order to remove an exemption for sexual discrimination in employment matters that applies to the armed forces. At the time the Human Rights Act was enacted the New Zealand Defence Force had a policy of not allowing women to serve in combat roles. That policy was formally rescinded by Defence Force Order 05/2000. So for years now the Defence Force has very sensibly turned a blind eye to the ability to ban women from combat roles. The leadership of the Defence Force deserves credit for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThere is no reason in strategic, tactical, or common-sense terms to leave section 33 of the Human Rights Act in place. The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee carefully considered the bill, and made a unanimous recommendation for amendment, and the bill has wide cross-party support. It is a small change already done in practice but a very large one indeed in terms of symbolic significance, and in terms of the important underlying presumption that no New Zealander should be discriminated against on the basis of any of the characteristics defined in the Human Rights Act. Attitudes and practices have moved on. New Zealand has been a leader in that many times and here we are leading again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EI want to dwell for just a moment on New Zealand\u2019s long and proud record in the recognition and promotion of the rights of women at home and internationally. We were the first country where women won the right to vote, in 1893. Since that time we have passed a long list of laws of which we can be exceptionally proud, laws designed to protect human rights for women and for all New Zealanders; Acts such as the Human Rights Act, the Care of Children Act, the Parental Leave and Employment Protection Act, the Civil Union Act, the Relationships (Statutory References) Act, the New Zealand Sign Language Act, and I want to mention sadly the Employment Equity Act in particular, which was passed with such hope by a Labour Government and almost instantly repealed by a National Government. Perhaps that last example really brings home how long it takes to change the attitudes, culture, and behaviours that lead to discrimination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EWe still have areas of equality for women to achieve in New Zealand. One of the greatest lags still is in the area of equal pay for work of equal value. A stubborn gender gap remains, but this Government has started the steps towards addressing that. In the meantime, all women\u2019s organisations, I am sure, will join with me in celebrating that at last New Zealand will be able to fully meet its international obligations in relation to the rights of women. With the passing of this legislation our last remaining reservation under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, commonly known as CEDAW, can be removed, and this Government will move quickly to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThe convention is the international bill of rights for women adopted by the UN in 1979. States that commit to the convention undertake to end discrimination against women in all forms, to incorporate the principle of gender equality in their legal system, to abolish all discriminatory laws, and to ensure the elimination of all acts of discrimination against women by persons, organisations, or enterprises. New Zealand reports on the convention have, until now, had to include a reservation because of section 33. Now we are in a position to give the convention its rightful, unqualified support; unqualified support that says women, like men, can enjoy all their human rights and fundamental freedoms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EIn the 30 years since the integration of women into the Defence Force there has been a slow growth in the percentage of servicewomen in it. It may actually get to about 20 percent overall by 2016. Many outstanding servicewomen have built brilliant careers in the services, mostly in the traditional areas, such as nursing. Our servicewomen have played an integral and vital role in the operations of our armed forces. This legislation will not mean a sudden flood of extra women in non-traditional roles, but it will serve to say even more loudly and clearly that women have a fully equal role to play in our armed forces and in important peacekeeping activities around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EWe are now removing the last barrier to front-line combat roles. The armed forces have themselves recognised that changes need to be made to make this a reality. Women in the armed forces have risen to every challenge and done great credit to themselves. I say to Sue Kedgley and to others that, yes, this is about choice, a free, open, and real choice that does not mean just a choice to kill; it means peacekeeping and rebuilding as well. In that arena New Zealanders, both our women and our men, have shown again and again that they can shine, and that New Zealand can punch far above its weight in any armed force task it is asked to perform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThis law says that the door is open wide and will never close. It serves to reinforce all the work done already within our armed forces to attract and retain career women who can aim right to the top. My niece in the armed forces, who has been deployed overseas, and others of her generation know that they can do the job and, even more important, that they are welcomed and supported to do it in any theatre where New Zealand needs to operate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003EThe member for Waitakere, the select committee, and the Minister have done well by this bill. Its purpose was a good one. Its results are something to be proud of. It is another long step on the way forward. Any discrimination on the basis of gender must be a thing of the past, and we can consign another bit of discrimination where it belongs today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00225ee1663c994d43cb8e5bd18f172d16b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ee1663c994d43cb8e5bd18f172d16b4\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the National Party to support the Human Rights (Women in Armed Forces) Amendment Bill. The purpose of this bill is to repeal section 33 of the Human Rights Act 1993, which will allow women employed in the armed forces to participate in active combat roles. The Human Rights Act of 1993 is outdated. This bill means that modern practices occurring today can now be addressed, and it clears up an anomaly. For the last 7 years it has not been the policy of the armed forces to discriminate against women, yet it has taken 7 years to get this legislation to come to the House. Again, like other members, I congratulate Lynne Pillay on the introduction of her member\u2019s bill, which has been taken over by the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe passage of this bill will remove the last exemption for gender discrimination in employment in the armed forces. Any decision to send armed forces personnel to an active combat situation should be based on competency and ability\u2014not on gender, race, or religion. It seems very fitting that this bill was introduced in 2006, the Year of the Veteran. It also seems very fitting, with Anzac Day celebrated only a week ago, that this bill will pass its last hurdle today. I, like many other members of the House, laid a wreath at my local RSA. It was a fitting tribute. I laid the wreath on behalf of the Mt Roskill electorate National Party. I was the only MP there, but wreaths were laid by almost 20 organisations, including the local school. Anzac Day is a day for all New Zealanders to pay tribute to our armed forces. At the Onehunga RSA the address was given by Commander Margaret Weller, commanding officer of the Naval Reserves. Her address was very moving. She spoke about the time she spent at Gallipoli, and she reflected on what life would have been like for those soldiers compared with soldiers in our armed forces today. There were a few tears in the audience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis bill has not been contentious; it has quite rightly been supported by the House at all stages. The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee received six submissions on the bill, only one of which it heard orally. Submissions were received from the New Zealand Defence Force and the Ministry of Justice. The Defence Force in particular supported this bill. There were no major changes. There was one minor wording change to the member\u2019s bill, where \u201Cat the front line\u201D was substituted with \u201Cin an active combat role\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe title of the bill is very apt. It is all about human rights. Women have reached out in all walks of life, and although the numbers of women who enter the armed forces are low across the board at the present time\u2014only 16.7 percent of the Defence Force are female, and, amazingly, that is an all-time high\u2014women should have the choice of whether they serve in active combat. I doubt that with the passage of this bill the ratios will improve. There will have to be hard work and a drastic rethink on how to improve the ratio by attracting more women into the armed services. Women should not be discriminated against in respect of gender, religious beliefs, ethical beliefs, colour, race, ethnic or national origins, or disability. This bill will remove the last barrier and hurdle for women in our armed forces. Women should be free to choose their employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me not to take the opportunity to acknowledge the efforts for New Zealander Nancy Wake, who was commonly known as the White Mouse, to be recognised by this Parliament for her bravery in World War II. Nancy Wake is 94 years of age, she lives in the United Kingdom, and she was our most notable Allied servicewoman in World War II. She has been honoured by France, the UK, the USA\u2014everywhere except New Zealand. That is a disgrace. She was born in New Zealand. She left when she was 12, but she is a New Zealander. It seems amazing that we are abandoning her by not recognising her. The RSA has given Nancy Wake its highest honour. It is the first time that it has given that medal to a woman. This woman has been recommended for a Queen\u2019s honour on countless occasions, and still there has been no recognition from New Zealand. That is the bitter irony and hypocrisy of this bill. Here we have a bill that removes discrimination and leaves the way clear for women to fight in active combat. And here we have Nancy Wake, who fought on the frontline over 50 years ago, and still there is no recognition. It is not too late. We have the June Honours List coming up. I hope\u2014I hope\u2014that she is on that list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EAs has been noted before, I was in the Army territorial university medical unit as a medical student. There was no difference in the training; we matched the men in every task. Although the women may not have been the fastest around the 5 kilometre course with a 30 kilogram backpack, we still finished it. Women have proudly proved themselves in every walk of life; they can hold their own and do so proudly. Although my time in the university medical unit was limited, I quickly appreciated the absolute necessity of having trained, competent, and skilled troops who work unquestionably as a cohesive unit. I certainly applaud those women who choose to go into active combat roles and go down this very brave and courageous path. Females have been deployed and have made valuable contributions in many overseas operations, such as Afghanistan, Timor-Leste, and the Solomon Islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI also note that the removal of this exemption, which discriminates against women from serving in combat positions, will enable New Zealand to ratify its obligations under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI would like to take the time to acknowledge Colonel Louisa Parkinson, the highest-ranking women in the territorial army. I know Louisa personally, and she is a great role model. With women like her\u2014positive and inspiring\u2014I am sure the numbers of women in the armed forces can increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ENational supports this bill. We are a party that believes in personal choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227820ead7eefa4f5cb2d957d319db8bd4\u0022\u003ESocial Security Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223653dbadc38f42e1aab0fef674afe73b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022 data-id=\u00225f2435468fda41f299af85be020e1043\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f2435468fda41f299af85be020e1043\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I move, That the Social Security Amendment Bill be now read a second time. This bill is an important part of the Working New Zealand initiatives. The object of these initiatives is to provide the right services and support for people to retain, find, or move towards employment. The work focus within the social support system is a positive objective. It does not undermine the purpose of the Social Security Act in relation to providing social and financial support to people for whom work is not appropriate or who, for some reason, are not able to work for a period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E This Government recognises that work is the cornerstone of people\u2019s independence and social and economic well-being. Over the coming months the services offered by Work and Income will be enhanced so that intensive work-focused support will be provided to every New Zealander who is receiving a benefit and able to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003ESo how does this bill support working New Zealanders? It does so by introducing a number of amendments that support the development of the enhanced services that I have just mentioned. I would like to outline the most important of those amendments. The bill extends planning requirements to all non-work-tested benefits, but I would like to emphasise that that does not include all people. Individual circumstances will still be an important consideration. People who are clearly unable to plan will not be required to do so. This Government is aware that many people on sickness and invalids benefits have indicated that they wish to work, or to develop skills that will enable them to work at a later date. The development of services designed to enable this is an integral part of the reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EThe changes to the requirements for people receiving sickness or invalids benefits that this bill introduces will support the greater focus on working more actively with people with ill health and disabilities. They will be provided with the right services and support to participate in the labour market, to the extent that their circumstances allow. People for whom the unemployment benefit is the most suitable benefit will be required to undertake an activity or activities in the period between their first contacting Work and Income for assistance and the benefit commencing. People will also be required to look for and accept any offer of suitable work during that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276b4e7b8e2da4a8f9dea41bc98ef1a08\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Labour\u2019s Work for the Dole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229419f5f9bb6a440991cb8483321de7c8\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for his contribution. This proposal will strengthen Work and Income\u2019s work-focused service for people on the unemployment benefit, as it will now mean that Work and Income will be able to direct a person to a work-related activity immediately, and not have to wait until after the benefit has commenced. The ability to work with a person and direct him or her to a specific activity right from the time of the first contact results in the person finding work quickly, and can remove the need for that person to go on to the benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EThe Labour-led Government believes that it is quite reasonable to expect people who are available and able to work, and who have no caring responsibilities or health or disability issues, to look for suitable employment in the time between requesting financial assistance from Work and Income and commencing being on the benefit. Additional activity requirements for people receiving the unemployment benefit will also be introduced. The changes proposed are designed to provide Work and Income with the flexibility to tailor the service to best meet the needs of the individual. In the current environment, many jobs are no longer based on a Monday to Friday working week. To reflect changes in workforce participation, some aspects of the work test may, where appropriate, be applied over a 7-day week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EThe bill also introduces a new activity requirement, which replaces the current work test, for young people on the independent youth benefit. This is a positive move, because we know that it is preferable for young people to be engaged in education and training. Separation from the opportunities that education and training offer has a negative impact on young people\u2019s future ability to obtain or hold sustainable employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281ceaa9f7b224bf3a17c457a811920e3\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Youth Work for the Dole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203ff759afee44ea2bed3cd54a1aa7b4c\u0022\u003EHon MAHARA OKEROA\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Hone Harawira that working more actively with young people and requiring them to engage in activities will further their current or future opportunities to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EThe Social Services Committee in its consideration of the bill recommended a number of changes. These changes have improved the clarity and intent of the policy underpinning the legislation. On behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment, I thank the committee for the work that it did. There are two areas where the committee has recommended changes, which I would like to address. They are the new application process for benefits and the fact that non-participation in an \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D does not attract a sanction. The application process that the bill proposed was a cause for concern in some of the submissions, and the committee has recommended a number of changes to clarify the policy intent. The application process for a benefit has not previously been set out in legislation, and that has resulted in a lack of clarity and transparency in an area that is quite complex.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EWe have relied on case law to assist with the interpretation of the policy. It was thought desirable, therefore, to have the process spelt out quite specifically. The requirements that an application should be in writing, and that both it and the evidence to support it should be completed in 20 working days, in my view are quite reasonable requirements. They make it very clear that an application consists of a robust transfer of information that meets certain requirements and can be verified. However, the way that the provision was initially drafted did not make it clear that important case law principles were being upheld by the change. The recommendations that have been made by the select committee make it very clear that the policy that has underpinned the application process for many years has not substantially changed. If a person applies for financial assistance, then that application is taken as an application for any form of assistance under the Act. The benefit will be paid from the date the person first contacts Work and Income with either an oral or written request for assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003E The committee has also recommended the insertion of a provision to allow the chief executive to extend the time frame for providing the supporting evidence, if the application is good and there is sufficient reason for doing so, to within 20 days. This is a very positive move, and allows for those unforeseen circumstances when, for reasons beyond a person\u2019s control, he or she cannot complete an application in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EIt has not always been possible, when a person applies for assistance, for that person to be able to produce the necessary verification to be able to establish entitlement, particularly when the benefit in question is an invalids benefit. When this is the case, a person may be granted a sickness benefit until such time as the establishment of the invalids benefit is verified. At the moment there is no legislative support for this operational practice. I am delighted that the committee has addressed the situation by recommending that the bill be amended to provide for the retrospective substitution of a more appropriate benefit, where further time has been required to establish entitlement, as part of the investigation of a person\u2019s application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c5b3ede3-ae58-4862-b45d-b4c8f3280960\u0022\u003EThe Social Services Committee has made a range of very significant changes, on which the chairman of that committee will further elaborate. I commend this bill to the House, and also reiterate my thanks to the select committee for the work it has done. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5eed1163f854309af860449e5f7a07e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5eed1163f854309af860449e5f7a07e\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party voted for this bill at its first reading, to get it to the Social Services Committee. We did it on the basis that although we thought it was a very imperfect bill, as presented to us, it was at least a very small step in the way of encouraging people to understand that the able-bodied cannot continue to stay on benefits when they can get work. We also thought it was a very small step in asking sickness and invalids beneficiaries\u2014and particularly sickness beneficiaries\u2014who can work, to do something about getting some work. But what we found was very, very weak. We said it at the time, and we have said it in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EEffectively, sickness beneficiaries\u2014and I say this bearing in mind that almost 25 percent of sickness beneficiaries, by their own admission through the Minister, can work and want to work\u2014are now going to be simply required to make a plan to work. There is no requirement at all for anything in particular to happen with that plan. The plan may not necessarily be given to anybody to take away, or anything like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Rotorua Peoples Advocacy Centre that it has just completed a study for the Families Commission. It found that not only did these plans\u2014which are put in place for people on the domestic purposes benefit, rather than having a work test\u2014not necessarily work, but also apparently they are not necessarily even given to the beneficiaries. When the Rotorua Peoples Advocacy Centre asked the Ministry of Social Development why it was that those people were not given plans to take away, because after all if they had a plan it was quite good to have it in front of them\u2014because they do not get another plan for another year\u2014it was told that nobody does anything with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think that means we are being asked to pass a bill under which people are going to be asked to plan but not necessarily do anything with it, or even necessarily take it away. National thinks that that is a silly thing to do. Either people are to have a proper plan, they are to have some measures on it, they are going to have some progress track, and they are going to be helped to get into employment, or they are not. But we are not going to be supportive of a plan that is nothing more than just a joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo we are also saying here that we are very, very disappointed at the last-minute change in the select committee that the Government forced in, which removed \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D from the sanction provisions. This is, in fact, one of the few reasons why I thought we could have voted for the bill before\u2014because we thought that provision was going to be in it. After all, that is what was stated in the bill, at its first reading. What we have now seen, and what is presented to us, is a bill where, frankly, everything that we believe in is just being pushed aside, and our support has been taken for granted. At not one moment has the Government approached us to seek our support for these changes. [Interruption] As the member over there keeps calling out, let me tell him that the National Party will not support this bill in its current form. The Government had better start thinking about what it is going to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the other interesting things that I found out in the last couple of days is that the Government has not necessarily advised New Zealand First that it will be removing the \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D programme from the sanctions provisions. I think that is something New Zealand First needs to know about. The Government has not even bothered to tell New Zealand First, on whose vote it depends. United Future knew about it, because its members were on the select committee\u2014[Interruption] Oh no, the member just did not know, when I spoke to her yesterday. Never mind, someone in New Zealand First was told. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo we have the situation where the Government is going to have some difficulties with this bill. I know that an amendment has been put up by another party, and we will have amendments to put in the Committee stage. The reason for that is that either we are going to have a bill that means something, or we are not. We are not interested in being seen to support this pathetic little excuse for a bill, which is all about saying we are going to have a plan to have a plan, when at the same time Steve Maharey from this Government said just a couple of years ago: \u201CWe\u2019re going to give $128 million to get people off the sickness and invalids benefits.\u201D What has happened in that time, in the 3 years since then, is that those numbers have gone up by yet another 7,000 people. What that has meant is that this Government has wasted $127 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI found it very interesting, when looking at those figures, to see that not only did they go up after Steve Maharey announced the Government was going to give $128 million of taxpayer dollars to get people off the sickness and invalids benefits, but they actually went up more than they had the year before. So not only did they go up, but the rate of increase actually got significantly worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhen I looked at this Government bill, having sat on the Social Services Committee as the deputy chair, having heard all of the submissions, and having read it again and thought about it again, I decided that the National Party will not support it. It is simply a sop. It is being used as a sop, on the one hand, to try to say: \u201COh look, it\u2019s all right; it\u2019s nothing much more than a plan.\u201D, to those who think that beneficiaries should not have to work even if they can; and, on the other hand, people like us\u2014who feel that if one can work then one should work; that if one needs to look after oneself one needs to be able to do what one can\u2014are supposed to be put off by this plan. But we found out from this official paper for the Families Commission that it was actually just a sop, and that people are not necessarily even given their plans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo I suggest to the Labour Government that next time it wants to try to pull a swiftie, it should think a bit longer on it. We are not prepared to support this bill. Some of the ideas of the bill are quite good, but the Government has not followed through. It lost its bottle, it gave in on the \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D and sanctions provisions, and it put up this plan to have a plan. It is simply not good enough. If we supported this bill, it would, in fact, be a travesty, and we are not going to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0b46cd5af2441e5aa728f38077ad033\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0b46cd5af2441e5aa728f38077ad033\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Before attacking some of that submission from the previous speaker, Judith Collins, which was incredibly unrelated to the Social Security Amendment Bill\u2014and it would have helped if she had had notes, because she would have at least remembered the name of the bill\u2014I want to pick up on a point made by the Associate Minister Mahara Okeroa, who was the speaker before last.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EHe spoke about the impossibility of determining which is the appropriate benefit at the time of application, and how this new bill codifies and enables benefits to be readjusted retrospectively. That is one of the significant areas of change. I want to deal with the second significant area of change. It was recommended by the Social Services Committee; it was supported at that committee by the previous speaker, because the committee voted unanimously for this amendment. The second\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212569b3198104aa9aa33816ddf0e0462\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. When we voted on that matter, it was on the basis of the bill being sent back to the House, as that member knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250dfa864ec9f42c5a0847b347667dea6\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was not a point of order. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0770075b438401e8ccac4e3c918c1bb\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, that change was supported by the previous speaker in the select committee; she voted in favour of the matter, as the record shows there was a unanimous vote. I am not sure, but perhaps the member was doing her hair at the time; certainly, there was a unanimous vote by all the members paying attention in the committee. That second significant area of change, that was recommended by the select committee relates to \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. The previous speaker, of course, revealed her total ignorance of the change in the bill, because she could not even pronounce the phrase \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. It is a pity she could not do so, because it is defined for her in clause 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EWhat is the change in respect of \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D? Let me make it very clear that \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D is a unique programme. It is a discrete programme. It is a label rather than a generic description. The programme is provided under contract to the Ministry of Social Development. \u201CActivity in the community\u201D is not, as some people think, and as demonstrated by the last speaker\u2014if only she would think, we would be far better off, but, assuming she does think, she demonstrates the misunderstanding\u2014participation in any community-based activity or voluntary work. It is not participation in any activity or voluntary work. Although the \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D option will no longer be available for people on the unemployment benefit, it will become available for people on other benefits. Work experience and training programmes will still be available to people on the unemployment benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe changes voted for by Ms Collins and the National Party, and brought forward by this Government, make clear that people cannot be required to participate in \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. If it is included in a person\u2019s plan, that person cannot be sanctioned for not participating in that particular activity. Of course, the logic to that is quite clear, because \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D is not related to work; it is for those beneficiaries who are unable to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe question has been asked\u2014and I have just tried to answer it\u2014as to why the \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D option would not be available for people on the independent youth benefit. Well, as I have just explained, there is a very good reason for this, as well. It is not appropriate to tie young people for up to 26 weeks into such a programme when they could be better off engaged in education and training opportunities or actively seeking work. I ask members to tell me what is wrong with that. What is wrong with having our young people actively seeking work? What is more, there is work for them for the first time in many, many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe bill is not just about planning and activities, although that is a major part of the bill. As well as planning and activities, this bill introduces a number of other changes that are designed to make access to assistance easier, and to modernise some of the provisions so that they reflect the reality of today\u2019s society\u2014of New Zealand in 2007, of New Zealand with a near full employment rate. I will give some examples of what the bill proposes to do. I have time to give only some examples; I could spend the rest of the evening outlining the broad ones, but I will concentrate on just a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe bill reduces the maximum stand-down time from 10 weeks down to 2 weeks. Who could complain about that? Judith Collins did. It rationalises the period of residency to 2 years for all benefits. Who could complain about that? Judith Collins did. It removes the qualifying child criterion for the domestic purposes benefit and widows benefit. Who could complain about that? Judith Collins did. It extends the definition of hospital care to include residential care of other kinds. Who could complain about that? Judith Collins did. It introduces a correction power so that a benefit can commence earlier than the date of application, if the application was not made because of an error on the part of the ministry. Who could complain about that? Judith Collins can. It inserts new purpose and principle provisions in the Act, and these purpose and principle provisions are fundamental in a day when we have near full employment and such a stable economy that people are investing in manufacturing and productive industries, and people are being encouraged to boost the manufacturing sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI have just outlined some of the benefits this bill introduces. The Working New Zealand programme reiterates as a key principle the long-held Labour view that people who, for whatever reason, are unable to work will be supported, whilst assistance will be provided to those people who are able to work. This is the central thesis of the bill, which was unanimously supported in the select committee according to the vote. I must say that the Green Party, having supported it, then expressed a reservation\u2014and it is the only party on record as doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI repeat this fundamental thesis, which is the key to Work and Income and social security benefits in the year 2007: those who are able to work will get assistance to work; those who are able to work will be helped into employment by planning and other forms of assistance; the ability to work will be determined not by the benefit received but by the situation of the individual; and those who are unable to work because of either illness or disability will not be required to go on to the work focus programmes. They will look at other options that are voluntary, such as \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D, which will add to their wellness and to their sense of person and sense of belonging in the community. But because that is without sanction, it is there merely to aid their contribution as worthwhile human beings. So the key thesis of this bill\u2014and the reason why it was supported, I suspect, by the National Party in the select committee\u2014is that the bill, for the first time in New Zealand, determines that people will receive support to get into the workplace according to not the benefit they receive but their individual, personal circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThis is a major bill. It is a bill that has been very well drafted. Many, many submissions were heard. The committee was aided by very good advisers, who deleted from the draft bill some of the clauses that needed further consideration. But those clauses that are clear have come forward in the bill that is now before the House for this reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe philosophy of New Zealanders is that those who can work should work. There is absolutely no reason why anybody in this country in 2007 who is capable of working should be excluded from the workforce or be left out, and this bill makes sure that nobody is left out. If people need assistance to become work capable even though they are able to work, they will get that assistance, but, again, the dividing line is not benefit-related. Those few individuals whose personal circumstances are such, through tragedy, disability, and illness, that they cannot reasonably undertake work will be under no pressure to do so. But community-based activities, such as \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D, will be available to them so that they have a sense of belonging, because there is an old saying that before we receive, we must first give. Every New Zealander appreciates the importance of that saying. So those who cannot, because of their circumstances, work\u2014whether it be through ill health, a disability, or the like\u2014can still contribute in a meaningful way through this bill, but it is without sanction. It is without sanction. If the effort to contribute does not work out as those people had hoped, then that disappointment does not attract official sanction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThat is the exciting aspect of this bill. It is not a bill that isolates one based on the benefit one receives; it is a bill that defines help by one\u2019s ability to contribute. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002298d9a5cfe5dd4e35a16ff6d9023faefe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298d9a5cfe5dd4e35a16ff6d9023faefe\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Social Security Amendment Bill. The claim that this bill is the biggest reform to the welfare system in 50 years is ridiculous. I would assume that going to work and receiving the benefits that one receives from working, such as high self-esteem, confidence, and a feeling of belonging, outweighs the benefits of sitting at home. A \u201Cwork first\u201D focus is imperative if we want to allow all the people in New Zealand to have a high standard of living and a high quality of life. The main aim of this bill is to move towards a work-focused system, instead of the benefit-first system that exists currently. Unfortunately, the aims of the bill\u2014which I will outline\u2014are just not inspirational enough to free people from the welfare trap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe first aim is the new pre-benefit activity requirement on applicants for the unemployment benefit and the change in the requirements put on people who are work tested. At present the work-test requirements do not apply to a person applying for the unemployment benefit until after the benefit commences. The introduction of a pre-benefit requirement to undertake a work-related activity, if directed to do so by the chief executive, will apparently strengthen the job search service. It will mean that Work and Income will be able to direct a person to a work-related activity immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe ability to work with people and to direct them to a specific activity right from the first contact with them could result in them finding work quickly\u2014maybe\u2014and would remove the need for them to go on to a benefit. However, because this pre-benefit requirement will happen only when requested, it means that applicants will not actually have to seek work first. They will still go to Work and Income first to find employment and will still have the mentality that they are not personally responsible for finding appropriate work for themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe second aim is that there will be the introduction of planning and activity requirements for sickness benefits and invalids benefits. People who are work tested will continue to make themselves available for, will actively seek, and will take up offers of suitable employment, and they may be required to develop a job seeker agreement and to undertake activities in the plan by agreement. In addition to this, they may in the future be required to undertake planning for employment; undertake, if required, a specific activity or programme included in the job seeker agreement; and undertake, if required, activities including rehabilitation\u2014but not medical treatment\u2014to improve their work readiness and prospects of obtaining employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe new activity requirements address limitations in the current provisions. Work and Income may be able to require people to undertake a specific job seeker development activity in their job seeker agreement that could address a barrier to employment\u2014for example, poor literacy skills or poor numeracy skills. This is great, but the question must be asked: how did these people fail in the education system originally to the extent that their literacy and numeracy skills were so bad that they could not meet even the basic work requirements to begin with? Is it really the role of Work and Income to re-educate the people who are failing in our education system so badly? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe new requirement will also allow people to be assisted to find work in cases where a person does not have an agreement in place, introducing a planning and activity requirement for sickness and invalids beneficiaries. Those beneficiaries who are not work tested will still go through the process of planning and activity requirements, even though there is no expectation for them to enter the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe Minister, the Hon David Benson-Pope, has admitted that 1 in 5 potential sickness or invalids beneficiaries who have been signed up by a doctor are actually fit for work. Is it not a contradiction that beneficiaries who are fit for work fall into the sickness and invalids category? As Barbara Stewart mentioned during the first reading debate on this bill, one must wonder whether the number of sickness beneficiaries increased and the number of unemployed dropped in part as a result of decreased personal expectations, the stress that is caused from not being employed, and the lack of social interaction. Therefore being unemployed is actually making them sick. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe third aim of this legislation is the introduction of an activity requirement, education training or employment for young people receiving an independent youth benefit, instead of the work test. Recipients will be required to participate in agreed and approved activities for 30 to 40 hours per week, be available for, and be seeking, full-time employment, or be unable to do the two mentioned as a result of sickness, injury, disability, or pregnancy. Recipients may be required to participate in at least one developmental training or educational activity for a minimum of 3 hours per week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EYoung people who fail to met their requirements will have the work test sanctions applied, unless the activity in the work programme is a community group \u2013 based activity, in which case these sanctions cannot be imposed. A community group activity cannot be enforced in their programme. This is a major flaw in the aim, as community activities have not been made mandatory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ELet me give members an example. In a small rural town a beneficiary may wish to pursue social work as a career path, and the only provider in that town is a church. The applicant, in his or her job-seeking agreement, writes this down as the aspiration and the career he or she chooses. This is the only activity on the agreement as this is the only provider. That person does not actually have to perform this activity, as it is provided by a community group. Therefore there are no implications at all for not fulfilling the activities on the plans. So why would people go and do that work if they actually do not have to and it cannot be enforced? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe level of benefits and provisions is complicated and complex. Once again, the single core benefit has been delayed. It is now almost 20 years since the idea was first mooted. Why cannot the Government come clean and just admit that it is not going to happen, instead of wasting time and more taxpayers\u2019 money on searching for and developing a redundant model that still just does not work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002282c1a8df812d411e91c226acd503ce22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282c1a8df812d411e91c226acd503ce22\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the second reading of the Social Security Amendment Bill. In New Zealand First we believe that the employment of New Zealanders is a priority. The failure to ensure that the potential workforce is employable not only limits the labour market capacity but also imposes a huge cost on all New Zealanders while indirectly contributing to the level of crime and substance abuse, and adding generally to the demands on our health system, which we know is already stretched. It is also important that people get and retain a sense of worth and self-esteem through making a role for themselves in society\u2014and they can do this. We believe that people should move from dependence on the State to a state of independence if they can possibly work, but we are very aware that some people in the community just cannot do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe welfare system that we operate here in New Zealand is actually a safety net that gives people a helping hand when they need it most. But it should never ever be a lifestyle choice for those people who can work. Some people work in the community or in a pre-employment programme, which is always better than sitting at home and being isolated from the rest of society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe would like to signal that we had some areas of concern about removing from the sanctions provisions the requirement for beneficiaries to undertake activity in the community. So we followed that up, and we were told by the Minister that this applied to sickness and invalids beneficiaries, and that unemployment beneficiaries would be involved in training for work or some other pre-employment activities. We were, in the main, satisfied by that\u2014it is really hard to argue against. We do not want to see people turn down a job because they feel obliged to turn up to a training programme of up to 26 weeks. Also, we do not want to see the training programmes jeopardised for the people who remain, due to a total lack of participants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is firmly committed to the concept of mutual obligations. When a person is unable to get paid employment, the State will pay that person on the understanding that he or she make some contribution back to the community. This can be interpreted as a training or pre-employment programme. We believe that this requirement assists many people, many of whom have completed quite a number of courses, to find employment. Work experience is a very valuable training ground for employment. I understand from the Minister that the change in the requirements for \u201Cwork\u201D in the community is aimed principally at sickness and invalids beneficiaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E A number of activities are already aimed at the unemployed\u2014mainly training programmes and work experience. The mere discipline of having to attend a programme or to work on a daily basis, and to reorganise one\u2019s life to accommodate that, and the need to focus on one task for 6 to 8 hours, to work as part of a team, to follow rules, and to have a supervisor who is not in one\u2019s home are all part of work preparation and are valuable skills for everyone to learn, or for some people to relearn. When one looks at the number of employers who are already teaching young people these skills\u2014and I can list a few: the local councils, supermarkets, fast-food outlets, gas stations, and factories\u2014one can see that the list just goes on and on. One must applaud the effort that all of those employers put into these young people. It cannot be easy; we all know that. It raises the question of why a person, if he or she is on a sickness or an invalids benefit, is totally exempt from having to learn these skills to plan for employment at some time in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe have all said in this House, and we have heard many times from both sides of the House\u2014particularly from National\u2014that the largest number of people on benefits are those on the invalids benefit or the sickness benefit. The bottom line is that one actually needs skills to be employed in the workforce. To clarify this area, I say that I was pleased to see what the United Future member had proposed in her minority report attached to the bill: placing clear and concise guidelines around activities in the community for unemployed and sickness beneficiaries, so that sanctions cannot be imposed for unreasonable expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe do not want to see beneficiaries having unfair advantage taken of them. But we do want to see that the right services and support are in place for people so that their opportunities for work are increased. People need to be assisted so that they can develop work skills, and some will need to be supported and assisted towards finding and keeping a job. We all know that working adults are the basis of any successful society, and we do not want the numbers of people on either the sickness or the invalids benefits to increase any further. All of the research shows us that families thrive when they are not dependent on a benefit. We need people to be in work, and we need people to want to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe difference in people when they are working is absolutely amazing. Last Christmas my son was fortunate enough to be employed as a trolley assistant at a local supermarket. Initially, it was for just the school holidays. He had to learn some work skills: making sure he was there on time, getting into the uniform, and actually working and focusing on a task for 8 hours. Of course, as with any student, he found it totally challenging. He is 16 and it has been really great to see the change in that particular lad. He is now keen to go to work on a Sunday. He could not actually give up the job at the end of the school holidays, because he enjoys being part of a team and being respected and acknowledged as part of that team. Of course, he had to make lifestyle changes so that he could give his best. There are lots of young people like that who want only to have a chance and to make the best of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe bottom line is that work matters. That is what should be happening. The emphasis in this bill is on getting the right services and support in place for people so that their opportunities for work are increased. We would blame any Government if that were not one of its policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe like many aspects of the bill, which were listed by Russell Fairbrother earlier. We were very pleased too to see the changes in the services offered to the 16 and 17-year-olds on the independent youth benefit. Those changes need to be carried through. It is far more preferable for young people to be engaged in education and training, so that they can hold down sustainable employment, than for them to be receiving a benefit at this particular point in their life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E We know that young people today face a far more challenging environment than any of us did in the past. So any initiatives to ensure that young people can be engaged in activities that will further their opportunities to hold down a job are absolutely welcomed. We know that young people cannot be inactive for long periods of time. We are all aware of the negative outcomes that eventuate from this: mental ill health, substance abuse, and criminal activity\u2014all of those things that we do not want our young people to be involved in. Success in employment, education, and training is by far the most important way out of poverty for young people. We are particularly pleased to see the services that have been offered to those on the sickness and invalids benefits. We believe that those services are important for everyone in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this bill. We believe that the changes it makes are positive for young people. We want all people to work, so New Zealand First definitely supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff3a1818a5c94066962fd38a6acca87d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff3a1818a5c94066962fd38a6acca87d\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E As I stated in the first reading debate on the Social Security Amendment Bill, the Green Party will not be supporting the passing of this legislation despite some of its useful elements. Unfortunately, the potentially negative impacts of this bill outweigh the good things the Government is seeking to do. However, to be fair to the Government, I will briefly outline the changes the Green Party does see as beneficial and welcome. They include the reduction of the maximum stand-down period to 2 weeks, the development of consistent residential qualifications across the benefit system, allowing people who care for children who are not their own to qualify for the domestic purposes benefit, aligning the ending of benefits for sole parents who cease caring for dependent children, and extending the exemption from a stand-down to all benefit types for people who enter refuges after a relationship breakdown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge several major changes the Government made to the bill during the select committee process, as a result of the many submissions that criticised or downright opposed the bill. The first of those was around the application process for benefits. Many submitters, as well as the Green Party, interpreted the bill as originally drafted as overturning the Scoble and Taylor decisions and requiring all benefit applications to be in writing and to be for a specific benefit. There appeared to be no provision to backdate entitlements except with the specific approval of the Minister, and then only when the ministry acknowledged it had made a mistake. We were concerned that under the bill as originally drafted, the onus would be on benefit applicants to work out which benefit they should be on and what they may be entitled to, rather than on the department doing that. During the Social Services Committee\u2019s consideration of the bill, the committee agreed to amend the bill in order to make it clear that the Scoble principle will still apply and that an application for a particular benefit will be taken as an application for any benefit once the department has worked out the appropriate entitlement. The bill has also been amended to provide for retrospective substitution of the correct benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe second major change that came about through the select committee process was in the area of \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D. Under the bill as originally drafted, a number of submitters felt that beneficiaries, including invalids and sickness beneficiaries, would potentially be required to undertake so-called activity in the community as a requirement of their job seeker agreements or personal development and employment plans. If they did not do the unpaid work required, they would then be potentially subject to sanctions\u2014in effect, a form of forced work for the dole. The bill has now been changed to clarify that the definition of approved activity in job seeker agreements does not include \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D and that this element is excluded from pre-benefit activities. A new subsection has also been added to make it clear that a non- work-tested beneficiary cannot be required against his or her will to include \u201Cactivity in the community\u201D in his or her personal development and employment plan, and that if it is included, the person cannot be sanctioned if he or she fails to carry it out. I am relieved that the Government has seen fit to make it plain that it does not, after all, support the back-door introduction of a form of work for the dole, and I welcome this change of heart on its part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EHowever, as the Green Party has pointed out in its minority report contained in the select committee commentary on the bill, we continue to oppose this bill, above all because of the major shift it represents towards a \u201Cwork first\u201D approach underpinning our whole social security system. As many submitters pointed out, there is a total absence within the purposes and principles statement in the bill of any role for the welfare system that is not focused on paid work. Work is seen as the ultimate goal, no matter what the conditions or pay, and no recognition is given to the value of the unpaid work that many beneficiaries undertake\u2014caring for children, the elderly, or people with impairments\u2014or to the valuable voluntary contribution many beneficiaries make in their communities. The purposes and principles clauses reinforce the unfortunate attitude that people in the benefit system are somehow less worthy of dignity and respect than anyone else, that they are not fully realised and recognised members of our community, and that they will become so only if they join the paid workforce. The fact that many beneficiaries also happen to be people with long-term illness, injury, or impairment only intensifies the opprobrium with which some able-bodied and employed members of the community view people who are not only in the benefit system but also living with illness or major impairments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EDuring the Committee stage of this bill I will be moving an amendment that contains new purpose and principle clauses. My Supplementary Order Paper will propose to get rid of the existing drafting, and to substitute wording based on a mix of the Treaty of Waitangi, the long title of the Social Security Act 1938, the recommendations of the 1972 Royal Commission on Social Security in New Zealand and the 1988 Royal Commission on Social Policy, and the principles set out in section 6 of the Children, Young Persons and Their Families Act 1989 that the welfare and interests of children and young people should be paramount. I also propose that the provision of full and correct entitlements to people applying for benefits should be included in the principles section, and that although looking for sustainable and suitable work should be a priority activity for unemployed people, the focus for other people, like those on sickness and invalids benefits and the domestic purposes benefit, should be worked out in consultation with them, taking into account their individual circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe second amendment I would like to see made to the bill is in the area of pre-benefit activities. At the moment, the bill provides that the Ministry of Social Development can either orally or in writing require a beneficiary to undertake a pre-benefit activity, and that if that beneficiary fails to do so, he or she will fail to receive any benefit. The problem with that is the potential for misunderstandings regarding the precise nature of the activity that is required, and, consequently, for people to lose out on the money they need in order to survive at even the most basic level. I am therefore proposing that requirements must be given in writing, and that any decisions must be subject to review and appeal rights. I have also been concerned that the pre-benefit activity clauses in the bill will, in some cases, result in unnecessary administrative delays before someone actually receives the benefit he or she is entitled to. My amendment is designed to ensure that claims for the unemployment benefit are investigated as quickly as possible and not held up as part of the bureaucracy of the pre-benefit activity process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe third amendment I am putting forward deals with an anomaly in how blind people and deaf people are treated in terms of their ability to travel overseas for the purpose of receiving vocational training or guide dog training. The Ministry of Social Development has the discretion to pay an invalids benefit to a blind person for up to 2 years for those purposes, but similar training for those who are deaf is limited to a period of 28 days. I am suggesting that Parliament rectify that anomaly by extending the provisions of the Act so that people who are profoundly deaf are allowed to be away for up to 2 years as well. I can ascertain no reason why that historical incongruity should continue, and I hope members from across the House may find themselves able to support the amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe fourth amendment I will be putting forward is in the area of the definition of income. It is aimed at ensuring that if the definitions of income and deprivation of income are at any stage amended, such changes should be undertaken through Parliament by an amending bill rather than by an Order in Council. We will, of course, have time to debate those amendments and other details of the bill in more depth during its Committee stage next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI would like to finish by saying once again what I have said many times before: that it is a great pity we are once again tinkering with the administrative detail of the benefits system, rather than producing a whole new Social Security Act designed for the 21st century and geared towards making our insanely complex system much simpler, both to understand and to administer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2007050394d8a194b00644958eff2939de0144b2000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"