"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc9bf08c2e9b4abe844ce73c93055b5c\u0022\u003EThursday, 10 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d0c76406d9745d794083930ae5bcbad\u0022\u003EThursday, 10 May 2007\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000002\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002268c3e45487c04b2fa404ece9b1e4e942\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df7ad7d166a14405867e0ea817a8db40\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffac7472c5de4c6381b6e8d6b3d4b531\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffac7472c5de4c6381b6e8d6b3d4b531\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week in the House priority will be given to the next stages of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill, the Social Security Amendment Bill, the Arbitration Amendment Bill, and the Succession (Homicide) Bill. Wednesday is a members\u2019 day and Thursday is Budget day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf51f0bb89d747b59ba19744e2601143\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf51f0bb89d747b59ba19744e2601143\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Can the Leader of the House tell us how much legislation is likely to flow from his Budget initiatives, whether any of those will need to be dealt with under urgency, and whether he intends moving some of the raft of bills that appear to be deadlocked on the current Order Paper, meaning the Government has only about eight Government bills available to it at the moment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c11fc4ea1d59475cb6be8ce487828eee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c11fc4ea1d59475cb6be8ce487828eee\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E No, I cannot give the member any information about that at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d304a92b8fe4454a3349dcd1ad3b7f7\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022086b6c47cad543b59a0275ef4c074de0\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022308f1311cb934ad0bb9f886fe13dd28d\u0022\u003ESuperGold Card\u2014Microchip Technology\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e97e9e2fd94ddfbb31d168c8c7c026\u0022\u003E1. BARBARA STEWART (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for Senior Citizens: Has he received any recent reports regarding the potential future use of microchip technology in the SuperGold card for seniors due for release in August?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248c4f58ec8514b439d0a7c58adf28741\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that that the answer will be longer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cc76fc4e9be45aca620929a245ccd6d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is the next one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f7f656b3c246409b257a72d13a31c0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next one\u2014that is all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc538245828b4e33af0798ead39dd935\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! What have you cooked up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221db82742b89b4b3498081cbd3f4431f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: We know it is the next question, because the questioner is entitled to two questions. Has the member got it? He has been here a long time; he should know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f29895248c4b444eace45131e4603812\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would members be seated for a second, please. I raised that matter because this House can run in an orderly fashion only if people are aware of what is happening. So I ask members, when one is trying to be helpful and to assist the House, not to express themselves in the way they did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279c8c0b3098d4b389e41a484ab40c88e\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I appreciate that. In the interests of the running of the House, maybe, with leave, Mr Peters could ask the question himself and then answer it. That would help enormously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b629c9c1bd14061aa9a946b82ebe33a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, and it is close to bringing the House into disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e59eef381e411db315210a998b0f14\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Are we to understand that the Minister has come to you and said that the answer to the first supplementary question will be longer than expected? That would be most unusual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ab0bc6c8284f10b3b530a83bf0c058\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What happens, as the member well knows, is that, as a measure of courtesy to the Speaker, those who are replying to questions from time to time indicate that the answers are going to be long, so that they are not interrupted. The member who is asking the question in fact indicated that to my office, and whether it was in relation to the main question or the supplementary question is irrelevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf762f135eba47b29c0a1ca95b657878\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf762f135eba47b29c0a1ca95b657878\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Associate Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E I was asked as to recent reports on microchip technology in respect of the SuperGold card. My answer is yes. I have seen hysterical reports that make all sorts of fanciful claims about what might occur if microchip technology were to be adopted as part of the SuperGold card for seniors. Those reports are not only negligent for scaremongering over an extremely positive measure for our seniors but are ignorant of both the facts and the processes involved. This is not a sci-fi fantasy or Dancing with the Stars. It is real life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f2022913b6d4c3b965a788f20f7a9de\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister allay the fears of our seniors, in relation to any future use of microchip technology?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d8176e93c546789e12c3583695576a\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the long one or the short one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbcbe62a15e447ed8d0164cfab2a4c91\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we know what the short one is. Yes, I can\u2014for three very simple reasons. First, any move towards microchip technology would involve a thorough review by both the Privacy Commissioner and the State Services Commission. Microchip technology is not being slipped in secretly in the dead of night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222466af297df7407a9fa1041ae56678fe\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Are they the same microchips as for dogs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff5bb3a3c060421a8c235829cd5069e2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: In the member\u2019s case, yes. Second, for the past 2 years all New Zealand passports have used microchip technology, which has safeguards to protect the privacy and integrity of the information the microchips store. Microchip technology is used for the security passes that all members of Parliament use for their own personal security. But some members would now deny that security to the elderly of this country. The third thing I want to say is that microchip technology will be replacing magnetic strip and barcode technology in the near future, across a range of industries. If the SuperGold card is to be functional in the future, it will require this technology, after all the necessary checks have been made by the Privacy Commissioner and others. I conclude by saying that we have no desire to see information relating to our seniors be abused or misused. We want the strongest protections possible, to ensure that that does not happen. In short, the checks are already in place and will be utilised to protect the integrity of the card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c22b5f672c640f296589434860825f2\u0022\u003EJudy Turner\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand the concerns expressed by MMP parties in this Parliament that the use of microchip technology by Government departments should be given wider consideration by organisations such as the Law Commission and the Privacy Commissioner before being introduced on an ad hoc basis into legislation such as the SuperGold card?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ab7f5be5814467abf1288e372cb5be\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I understand what the member is asking. By way of further explanation, my answer is yes. But in terms of the timing for this introduction\u2014it being a long way into the future\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af770a486d33404cb701a743963b30e4\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: You opposed it for drivers\u2019 licences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b39f3b3a1f448aa927fd35977e35c8c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Opposed what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba7da1b6cf09400e8be2f6f799a75eba\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: The microchip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d180adbb2a54de99e27ec68c51e2b31\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299c171d3109c46e2955e2462290f2135\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b99f745850064334913ef6a7ec8e8751\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, I did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200590eb6d332421cb60a9345ac929bbd\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c389ef920d34c3fa41a562fe230a7fa\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, sorry! That member came back from Queenstown, having seen the local bodies at the local body conference, and told us all that they were all for this technology, which would have had the certain outcome of six companies owning all the roads in New Zealand. That is why I opposed it. I am just putting the facts on the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce03864e5c694837b8b1db9fc123008e\u0022\u003EHon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Chipmunk!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1460e9ca5b04b9a9eb71b43ae11cff1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I say to that member he should look in the mirror and tell me who looks like a chipmunk. He is not saying very much now. I tell the United Future member that I understand her concerns. That is why I wrote to the Law Society to say that its first impression was correct and that its codicil, or rider, to its submissions was grossly incorrect and negligent on its part. I am still waiting for a reply from the Law Society\u2014the august group with which I have some familiarity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28f1a8f79024b7f9686983a2d95656c\u0022\u003EBarbara Stewart\u003C/span\u003E: Will the card have microchips in it when it is launched in August?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280af679cfc764cd79ed172aed81f80c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it will not. The clause relating to microchips is aimed at future-proofing the card for the time when magnetic strips and barcode technology become redundant. With the banks and retailers moving towards microchip technology as we speak, we need to ensure that seniors do not miss out on the full range of commercial discounts that will become available in the future. As I say again, the privacy and sanctity of people\u2019s private lives is something that is foremost in the minds of members of my party and of the Government at this point in time, and the fear and scaremongering by some members is blatantly just that. It is without any substance whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b53d8ec4bbb94d9484aae149e83bbcd7\u0022\u003ERussell Fairbrother\u003C/span\u003E: When can seniors, such as the members of Napier\u2019s Grey Power, look forward to receiving their SuperGold card?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ce08db963eb4dbd8df0ca1e9a2bd217\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: As noted earlier, seniors such as Grey Power members and the former leader of the National Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221585f1054598426caa9ca0dfae32cea2\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d020144ed544c987440d092d5300e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will receive the card when I turn 65\u2014a very long time away from now, as is obvious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed9718e31b7452aa9c0cf0c08021171\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying he is not yet 65?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fec744e080a4441e8e5e163edb02d344\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, who has lost his hair\u2014or, rather, grown through it? These cards will be launched in August. In addition to the range of Government benefits on offer, the Ministry of Social Development currently has a team negotiating with commercial entities to provide a range of discounts. I urge members, please, to let the elderly know what is coming, because it is all good news. I ask members over there to be quiet for a little while, as I explain what will happen in August. The Ministry of Social Development currently has a team negotiating with commercial entities to provide a range of discounts. Although we cannot name names at this stage due to commercial sensitivities, I can say that we are confident of a range of significant commercial discounts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ffed89cb594c7c88070a581c9fc410\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: When New Zealanders refused to support the microchipping of dogs, why does the Minister now want to microchip our seniors for a discount card?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c904dc2e0c4e67b358f2ab4878e68b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: You know, people would think that someone who got herself ensconced in the gambling industry prior to coming here to Parliament would know something about technology, would they not? They would think she might know about it. People will not have a microchip in a personal sense, other than to carry it\u2014which many do now with their passports, and as that member does right now, to ensure her security in this Parliament. Some would wonder why, but she does have it. To make the kind of claim that the microchip will somehow be inside a person is false and irresponsible, but is becoming, unfortunately, typical of the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5ca22482b6346d6ba003f70d2ac1fa9\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: To reassure Judith Collins, would the Minister agree that he would intend to microchip only dangerous and menacing pensioners; and would the comparison the Minister makes between the passport microchips and the microchips on the SuperGold cards cause concern to those pensioners, because the passport microchips have facial recognition data on them? Is this microchipping perhaps the thin end of the wedge to the use of such technology on Government-issued ID cards, and should he not wait for a Government inquiry before legislating for its implementation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294148552981a4b17b91e54cfa3d84019\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are several questions there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296186682a23647f18df739b15c87cc00\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I get the gist of what the member is saying. Let me just say there was once a time in this country when the hard left could claim validly to have some concern for the poor and less well-off in our society. That member has demonstrated he has long abandoned that cause, in a political sense. To stand here and make ridiculous claims, and to laugh at something that has been discussed with the elderly as being a long-range benefit to them, is to\u2014[Interruption]\u2014no\u2014to own up to where things have got with the Green Party. Those members would rather rush around protecting worms and snails than look after the elderly, 540,000 of whom live in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250eb4ea8cc3946b18c0f539e4d251b1c\u0022\u003E Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that officials advised the select committee that the microchip technology was not needed for the SuperGold card, and that they did not know what specific purposes it might be used for but that they might like it at some time in the future; and is it not appropriate for Parliament to consider legislation for that microchipping when we actually know what the reason for it is, rather than give officials a blank cheque for the future through which to collect data on our superannuitants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695f8baf02f14298a93673d3cd89e142\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: There are many future developments that the elderly of this country will wish to avail themselves of, and they will hope that the politicians of this country have been modern enough in their approach to prepare the policies and provisions for them well in advance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eb304ae139e4b47a5a06a9fcda8ccf9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Such as?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220ebd14a5cfc4b4c8ba3e55220acb00e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Such as? As we speak, all the banks are moving to use microchips. I do not recall any of those members saying anything about the banks doing that. The passports of this country have a microchip now. I do not recall one member protesting about that. But, of course, for some cheap political advantage\u2014which they will never get because the elderly are wise to them\u2014those members are prepared to get up and make some claim that we are microchipping the elderly, when clearly we are not. The most important part about this technology is that we will not go any further with it until the Privacy Commissioner, the State Services Commissioner, and the elderly are happy with this advance. But why would we want to waste years getting legislation through Parliament, when we know now that the commercial world is moving rapidly to that state of affairs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221452d78ff6d4b37af7499fdb511dcd9\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, is the Minister aware that Ministry of Social Development officials advised the Social Services Committee that deleting the provision for microchips would have \u201Cno immediate consequences for the launch and implementation of the SuperGold card\u201D; why is his adviser Damian Edwards telling senior citizens in the New Zealand Herald today that this card has to have the microchip in order to be functional, and why is the microchip being foisted on our old people with a lie?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3dc9e9cb07e44d99ef3dac857a99759\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because my office sought to respond to misinformation purveyed by that member. That member knows full well that we have referred to a whole range of future benefits, many of which will not be able to be otherwise obtained from various service sectors or industries because those industries have microchip technology. We have to, likewise, have that technology available in the long term. Most important, we are doing something not just for tomorrow but for the next 10, 20, 50, and 100 years. That is a fact. In discussion with my officials, I have asked them to ensure that we do not just take steps now that will see us having to rush back to Parliament, possibly by December of this year, to fix the matter up. Let me just say to National members that as they have demonstrably let the old people down, I think they should retire, fly a white flag, and quit while they are behind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57649dc32ce4e90b974f80a4d239bc5\u0022\u003ERodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: That was a very, very long reply, but the question was actually about why this microchip is being foisted on old people with a lie\u2014because that is what is happening here. The microchip is not needed for the launch of the card. I am sure the Minister would like to respond to the question of why his office is lying to old people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207740c8bea5746a9ac2faf93e80e0149\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I overlook the obvious defamation and insult from that member\u2014he is known for it. The fact is that my office responded to misinformation that was being purveyed by Heather Roy MP. I told her that in my answer, and the second thing is that I pointed out why the microchip needed to be considered now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284836b5a5a534c07bcab8682e8e5865a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I listened very carefully, and the Minister certainly addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b51176a480949b6acf3053c34a8ed11\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the article from this morning\u2019s New Zealand Herald where it is reported that Mr Peters\u2019 office told senior citizens that this card needed a microchip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1ebf8dd47d04af5b7fa12f078ac5cf2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237afeb13456e420aac097adfb4f7c0a5\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the select committee report where the Ministry of Social Development officials said that this card did not need a microchip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230c07f9faebf4801a54019218a9078a1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4fa812bbb2a471badf5bc2eb4eee066\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the New Zealand Law Society\u2019s submission to the select committee on the bill, which talks about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de7e9dc6eea4d5e8ee6fb6bc12382cd\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241a88a7b4f7e46a78bbaba37d74b7215\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I want to make it very clear\u2014because this may help the future working of the House\u2014that we are objecting to the tabling of the documents because the information is readily publicly available. This should be a privilege.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e72178fed9ba4dd58933e6061ad1d284\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter of debate and there have been plenty of opportunities to discuss that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222269e5595b1f4211b60cc11038b7897e\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Operating Balance Surpluses\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b737a931a6f14bbf8191589d7c37d2e8\u0022\u003EDr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What is the cumulative total of any operating balance surpluses between 2000 and 2006?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0dfd635d8ab4d5f93035e1dc3eddee2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0dfd635d8ab4d5f93035e1dc3eddee2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The cumulative operating balance excluding revaluations and accounting changes figure over the 7 years is $35.5 billion. That has enabled us to reduce net debt by $13.7 billion and invest $9.9 billion in the Superannuation Fund, and, particularly over the last 2 or 3 years when the exchange rate has been high and monetary policy has been tightening, fiscal policy has continued to lean against inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022743ba1272eef47819c8d522383d0a18e\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the IMF wrong when it states in its recent analysis of the New Zealand economy, released publicly this month, that the fiscal surplus has risen to levels well above that required to meet his fiscal objectives; if the IMF is not wrong, is this further evidence of the consistent over-taxation of New Zealand workers and businesses by his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292e84f08822247a4a2b8ca3f7da07ff0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the member that yesterday his party\u2019s spokesperson on finance asked me a question about the same report, which suggested that we should actually be maintaining a large fiscal surplus at the present time. It would be helpful if the National Party could get its position on macroeconomic management consistent from one day to the next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f6d6b1ea5446c5b68c2ee7fe3e9c5c\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Standing Orders require the Minister to address the question and not make comments about other members of this House. My question was very clear: is the IMF wrong when it states in its recent analysis, released this month, that the fiscal surplus has risen to levels well above that required to meet his fiscal objectives; if the IMF is not wrong, is this further evidence of the consistent over-taxation of New Zealand workers and businesses by his Government? It was a very clear question. The House deserves an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c3c993c972e4d608dc0f04c5613a713\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought the Minister did address the question. He did make other comments, but they were in response. But that was addressing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db11549a86d94287a08de26b31c90946\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why, given periods of low inflation and high surpluses, has he not taken the opportunity to cut taxes in any of his Budgets over the past 7 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022091a683cb9f142a8ab4bbf29d8abc81c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have. I invite the member to read the Budgets again. There were substantial cuts to business taxation and there were the Working for Families tax credits, which mean we now have the second-lowest tax wedge on the average wage for a family with two kids in the developed world. I also invite the member to read the IMF report more closely about the difference between the fiscal issues and the macroeconomic issues. He clearly has not read that part of the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e75e03bc184f2393961b23f52d175c\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen on the impact of announcing large-scale tax cuts in a macroeconomic climate such as ours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289bac8295bfe40939fd42ed97b30edc1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report from Bloomberg this morning, which particularly relates to yesterday\u2019s question, confirming what many commentators expected. The market has now priced in an almost certain interest rate rise in Australia following the tax cuts announced in this week\u2019s Australian Budget, and that is the actual differential between the Australian and New Zealand exchange rate movements. I do not believe that either homeowners or exporters want higher interest rates in New Zealand, which would follow from large-scale tax cuts in this year\u2019s Budget\u2014which Mr English has been rejecting for the last 3 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d23e5126a89445abb67e45d1ae80c206\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: Have the surpluses been earmarked for future services and projects, and are these surpluses likely to extend to future years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9950f05f1a94b269720d6b623ef7286\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the first point to note is very important. The operating surplus includes the transfers to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and the earnings in the Superannuation Fund. We need to run an operating surplus of approximately 3 percent of GDP simply to keep gross debt to GDP ratio constant. That amounts to the sum of $5 billion a year in the size of the current economy. Above that, the surplus is above what is required to meet the debt target. But they were required for macroeconomic management, which is what has happened in the last 2 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87bb7cad10540a4a94ae3bebbcd45d2\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is the IMF wrong when, in its recent analysis of the New Zealand economy, it recommends shifting towards greater tax reductions and smaller expenditure increases; if so, why is the IMF wrong with that recommendation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213aa52cc73a44a9f89b610de488747f9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not disagree with this; this is where there is a legitimate case for discussion about whether one has tax cuts or Government spending. I note that Business New Zealand today actually said what those cuts in Government spending should be in order to have a smaller size of Government\u2014which Mr English will not tell us. It nominated the following: first, income and asset test New Zealand superannuation; second, cut Working for Families; third, cut the rates rebate scheme; and, fourth, put interest back on student loans. I thank Business New Zealand for telling us what National\u2019s secret agenda actually is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275958a820c8340a6b5b6f514c4ff721a\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: After 5 consecutive years of tax reductions in the Budgets of the Minister\u2019s Australian counterpart, is it correct that the net after-tax income of a person working at the average hourly wage in Australia has risen by 33.6 percent, while the after-tax income of a New Zealander working at the average hourly wage has increased by only 18.9 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3113143b7504aa5bb0c32c12d819c9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Economic growth in the two countries has been roughly similar. The main differential movement has been in terms of gross wages. That has been because Australia had more union power, pushing gross wages up. The right-wing Government in Australia has now changed that situation. The National Party has actually promised to loosen New Zealand\u2019s labour market, not tighten it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c5541a46074c119619c8d3a9514aa3\u0022\u003EDr the Hon Lockwood Smith\u003C/span\u003E: How is it that the Minister\u2019s Australian counterpart has been able to both increase spending and reduce taxes every year over the past 5 years, while the Minister has been able only to increase spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5730476ba9f4dc0aed4626fcc36827e\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That is not true. Indeed, there will be tables in the Budget summarising what has happened on taxation over the last few years, showing significant reductions in both business taxation and in taxation on savings, and an increase in tax credits for low to middle income families. Those people who have children and are on modest incomes very much appreciate it. I keep on getting stopped in the street by people thanking me for Working for Families. I do not expect Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith to thank me for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002229e11a30613941bd9217688933b13a58\u0022\u003ETertiary Education\u2014Quality\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256239ffad8fe43deaa63725f3df771a2\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: What is the Government doing to ensure high-quality tertiary education and training?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022479e486182a2456f9f930dceee5b95a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022479e486182a2456f9f930dceee5b95a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E I have recently announced\u2014last week and today\u2014increased funding, including $127 million over 4 years for the institutes of technology, polytechnic industry training, and w\u0101nanga sectors; $129 million for the university sector; and a further $199.5 million for the whole sector. Together with the tertiary reform legislation this will ensure the tertiary education sector fulfils New Zealand\u2019s needs and provides better value for money for taxpayers and for students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b3183f513144df0a01e2583e06d9d2f\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: How do these announcements show that the Government is achieving value for money in the tertiary education sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262ed4128abec4c8594e5acf44b04d8ad\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Much of the money available for this investment has come through savings in other tertiary education spending. We have been able to engage in that reinvestment because our reforms have stopped the out-of-control expenditure inherited from National\u2019s failed experiments in uncapped tertiary education funding driven by student choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1544f089f342f3ad67675b7db027bd\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider that sufficient time is allowed for those tertiary education organisations, which confront significant variation in funding, to respond to that variation, given that the Tertiary Education Commission board of commissioners will not consider the plans until October or November 2007, and funding will occur in January 2008 according to the Tertiary Education Commission\u2019s investment guidance document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375ad5808e9541b4ad17bd4b8ba8c6c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I think that it is true that the final sign-off will be late this year. We have already released the investment guidance, and there have been extensive meetings with the sector on its implications. Discussions between the Tertiary Education Commission and the tertiary education organisations will take place starting at the end of this month. So the organisations will have a much earlier indication of likely funding than the final sign-off would indicate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a59d3ae-788b-4b19-b7dd-7d0e29a626fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256e18a625dac43be92627669d62480d8\u0022\u003EHon Brian Donnelly\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister explain to the House the purpose of the tripartite forum process and how it has been operating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255cb9a29815841c3ac2e1ec50544670d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The purpose of the tripartite forum is to look at improvements to quality and at upskilling within the university sector, particularly at how it is possible to lift relative incomes amongst the academic staff, given that over a long period of time these have tended to fall behind and have put us at a disadvantage in terms of international comparisons. Both last year and this year we have been able to feed some extra money into the university sector with the assurance that that will flow through into salaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c6ef10c703849eda9e3186d3c6cf3fe\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022885afea34c70412fa40ef2913545b751\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022885afea34c70412fa40ef2913545b751\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased that Dr Cullen has finished his answer to the previous question. He has managed to put his Associate Minister of Finance to sleep. [Interruption] Have a look down there. How is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ebf987161c4128b08d4f0ec1dcecd0\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members know that, when they are asking questions, if they preface them with comments that are irrelevant to the question, it is likely to cause disorder. Would the member please just ask his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4811ee3d15f4e7e8ad0bb315038780c\u0022\u003EElectricity\u2014Supply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244dfd595a3ba4322874cf2ad7349cc0e\u0022\u003EGERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy: Is he confident that New Zealand will get through this winter without a repeat of the electricity crises seen in 1992 and 2003?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee3ad135f7b841f7b389faba53dc6bd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee3ad135f7b841f7b389faba53dc6bd0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Acting Minister of Energy):\u003C/span\u003E As confident as one could possibly be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7b3e1062fcb4047b98fb704968d57fa\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the 30-day rolling average for water storage inflows shows that April 2007 was worse than April 2002\u2014almost as bad as April 1992\u2014and that the Meteorological Service is predicting La Ni\u00F1a weather patterns, meaning little rain and much less supply of hydroelectricity this winter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e40210329ddd44d39b65154d51e28f15\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is certainly true that the inflows over the last 2 or 3 months have been below average, but they started from a much stronger level at the end of the year. Actual lake storage levels at the moment are not much below the average for a normal year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a653771c4c3438aa1a4395bfedf177d\u0022\u003EMaryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any recent reports on electricity generation capacity in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ac6810c5524e32b5530716a30bdd70\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have received reports of significant progress on the new, more efficient E3P plant at Huntly. That, of course, will give us much greater thermal reserve capacity this winter than we have had previously. Of course, the National Party opposed the agreement between shareholding Ministers and Genesis that enabled E3P to be constructed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371d2dbb54e44eb3adfba54521cbd14f\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that security of supply for 2007 will depend on the successful commissioning of E3P at Huntly, with the consequence that not only the Huntly coal-fired station but also the new gas turbine will run at full capacity; does he expect that this year thermal generation will beat last year\u2019s record year for thermal generation; and how does that fit with the Government\u2019s carbon dioxide emissions strategy for carbon neutrality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de34015c91042ecb22dd2d06a35f27b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member thinks he can predict rainfall for the next few months, good on him. Predictions of long-term rainfall measures are often wrong. If there is sufficient rain, then that will not happen; if rainfall levels remain low, we now have much larger reserve capacity, thanks to the decisions taken by this Government. But I do note that the status of the official risk meter put out by the Electricity Commission on 6 May\u2014the latest\u2014is still at low.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a420aa5facd49a8a7adf0a195cf96a7\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Why have so many renewable energy projects fallen over in the last 7 years; of all the new generation that has come on stream over the last 7 years, how much is renewable and how much is thermal; and if he is able to give us an accurate answer, how has that particular statistic helped the Government think it can get to carbon neutrality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad813fa8cca04a2cb87b55c3c3c7112f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have that statistic. However, the member is incorrect in his assertion. The main renewable project that fell over was Project Aqua, and it was actually opposed by the local National Party candidate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c68fc56766a4e75b76542b8d0a5f53f\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: In the event that a crisis situation does appear on the horizon, can the Minister give the House an assurance that, in the first instance, the Minister would call for, in ample time, voluntary restraint, so that New Zealanders could save of their own accord, and, in the second instance, if the situation worsened, would go to some lengths to provide financial incentives to encourage people to reduce their power usage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223005ea40521d4d33ae49df5cf28119db\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, we monitor the situation. In fact, Cabinet continues to receive a report on both inflows and the reserve capacity on a weekly basis. It is far too early at this point to consider whether there is any risk of a serious crisis. The problem is, of course, that if we call wolf too early and nothing happens, then the next time we call wolf people will take no notice, so it is a matter of judgment. I emphasise again that the Electricity Commission has the risk meter at low at the present time. Mr Brownlee thinks he knows more than the Electricity Commission; I think that is something only Mr Brownlee believes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d4be28dfea74badac935764ddbe5d15\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We will see. Can the Minister confirm that the Waitaki catchment now holds only 68 percent of its historical average for this time of year, and that that level has dropped more than 25 percent in the last month, putting us now within 500 gigawatt hours of the operational minzone, at which point this country will face blackouts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc29f77d12104052b18ab26af253df8c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that storage levels are below average for the time of year, but, at the present time, not by the kind of margin across the entire system that the member is implying. There is not a serious risk at this point. I emphasise again that compared with last year the major difference, of course, is that E3P is coming on stream very soon, and is a very significant addition to power capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c9d25d75d3b4e7ab662a4498efdc0dd\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the Transpower website entitled Grid New Zealand, which is an easily accessible information tool telling us about Transpower\u2019s projects, both those in construction and those that are held up; if so, would he consider putting up on the website of the Government\u2019s Electricity Commission a site perhaps called \u201CGridlock New Zealand\u201D in honour of the commission\u2019s delayed backlog of decisions, which has meant that renewable energy has not developed in this country at the level it should have over the last 7 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80da8b55fc14c80bf924912faaa5218\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member seems to have shifted from the Electricity Commission to Transpower in that question, and they are two completely different bodies. If the member is referring to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aaed6df42f54d33965ba4edb9bb28d9\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Can I read the question again? The Minister clearly did not hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2fea1932c03418e898526e65e0c4616\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Succinctly, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ca02fc7ee94c0eaa522e675896c418\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Has he noted that anyone can go to the Transpower website called Grid New Zealand and see a list of projects held up by the Electricity Commission; if so, will he consider putting up on the Electricity Commission website a page called \u201CGridlock New Zealand\u201D in honour of its backlog of decisions, which has contributed to a very, very low level of renewable energy being developed in this country over the last 7 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220759120e30334604babbc1712fe8c83f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Electricity Commission is not holding up renewable energy projects, at all. There are difficulties at times with the planning process. I have yet to hear from the MP for Otago whether she supports the major wind power projects in Otago\u2014there are a number of them\u2014at the present time. I suspect she does not. I note that the major opposition to the upgrade of the North Island transmission line was, in fact, led by Judith Collins and Paul Hutchison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e0cb9ef53d4dc7b1be60cdc09547b1\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My point of order is to indicate that the Minister has misled the House again today. Jacqui Dean was, in fact, on the local authority that voted for Project Aqua, but the then member for Otago, David Parker, voted strongly against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b401196240464459aee8420c518d136c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. It is a matter of debate, as the member well knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226aa99ddd1bb0494e96ee262436f1a2dc\u0022\u003ETreaty of Waitangi Settlements\u2014Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua o \u014Cr\u0101kei Claim\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f1415422ea40329367d4d8f1d95dc9\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: E whakapono ana a ia ki ng\u0101 kaimahi o Te Tari Whakatau take e P\u0101 ana ki te Tiriti o Waitangi me te Tari Ture o te Karauna kei te tohutohu i a ia m\u014D ng\u0101 whakataunga i raro i te Tiriti, i runga hoki i ng\u0101 patapatai a Carrie Wainright te heamana tuarua, tiati hoki o te Taraipiunara o Waitangi e whakaw\u0101 ana i ng\u0101 tono a Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, ar\u0101, he aha ai \u201Ci tawhitia\u201D, \u201Ci whakarapaina\u201D r\u0101nei \u0113tahi pepa whaimana, \u0101, \u201Che mahi kanga, he mahi whakah\u0101wea \u0113nei i ng\u0101 kaitono\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Does he have confidence in the staff from the Office of Treaty Settlements and the Crown Law Office, who advise him on Treaty settlements, in light of questions from the Deputy Chairperson of the Waitangi Tribunal, Judge Carrie Wainwright, in the case of the Ngati Whatua o Orakei Treaty of Waitangi claim as to why documents were \u201Coverlooked\u201D; why several historical assessments and internal memos were \u201Cwithheld\u201D, which left \u201Cclaimants insulted and disregarded\u201D?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa2a449780734fdbba215263fa8091fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa2a449780734fdbba215263fa8091fa\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I am assured that the decision about the provision of documents was made as a genuine exercise of judgment and in good faith. I cannot say that I have the same confidence in the cut-and-paste question the member put together, and in the quotes that were taken out of context and that misrepresented what the judge actually said on three different occasions, at three different times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e74e9345c02f495ca9cc07c68395ce09\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What consideration has been given to removing the Office of Treaty Settlements from the Ministry of Justice and placing it within the Prime Minister\u2019s office, to ensure that an all-of-Government approach is achieved in Treaty settlements; if there has been none, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c7701579b4446fe92d02705ad1b925c\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: No consideration has been given to that, because an all-of-Government approach is taken to Treaty settlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221ac1036cc9b47f6a7ff88c935a56aaa\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of the statement made by the previous Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, the Hon Margaret Wilson, that the Government would pay special attention to cross-claim issues; if so, how does withholding from an urgent hearing of the Waitangi Tribunal advice by senior policy analyst Peter Hodge that \u201Clack of commitment to conferring with cross-claimants is a serious concern\u201D, and that the Crown\u2019s negotiating behaviour involves \u201Cconsiderable legal risk for both parties\u201D, enhance trust among cross-claimant parties towards the Crown?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1c3a4ddcfd43bd999f78c55b7a5cf4\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as I said to the member, amongst the nearly 250 documents that the Crown released through the Office of Treaty Settlements and the Crown Law Office, the documents he refers to were not initially considered to be relevant to the inquiry, as their primary content was considered to be either outside the scope of the inquiry or significantly superseded by later advice in documents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211c360cd8634484997f3266fd6943e78\u0022\u003EPita Paraone\u003C/span\u003E: What assurances can the Minister give that previously settled Treaty claims have not been affected by the Crown\u2019s withholding and suppressing relevant documents, and what redress is available to claimants if such actions have taken place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbfe6fec9fe5439b84558a862ede1807\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I can certainly assure the member that, as in this case, the officials have acted in good faith. I take some confidence from Judge Wainwright\u2019s view that notwithstanding this, the tribunal will proceed because it is clearly of the view that this will not materially undermine the decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ee21c27b6774220a9ef98807ba66385\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What thought has been given towards establishing an independent settlements authority, which would overcome the problems described by lawyer Paul Majurey of a two-way Crown view, to ensure that justice is not only done but seen to be done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3463525054745559301202307695865\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not convinced that such a change would achieve anything of substance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9ae58e2387045e490c5f5f6d94971fa\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of comments from the deputy chair of the tribunal, Carrie Wainwright, that Crown Law was playing games with the disclosure process, and of the response from Crown Law staff member Virginia Hardy that there had been an error of judgment, and is he prepared to tolerate such errors of judgment as par for the course of the Treaty settlement process; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262145b4d117a42c891015540d2f1b96e\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am clearly aware of the comment. I referred to it in the first answer that I gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d36024d3f4442e39e5bbfd169d5a126\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: This is a cover-up for your friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f24bb6978224be1843630d5cd7f9810\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, for goodness\u2019 sake. Mr Ryall should grow up. No error is ever desirable, but I suggest to the member that any organisation that could claim never to have an error in judgment, let alone an error of any sort, simply is not credible. What I can say is that I have confidence of a very high standard of work, and a high commitment to ethical behaviour, on behalf of that organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226741969c2eed4231873a1bf1da2ec8a0\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article of 27 April 2007 entitled \u201CTwo-way Crown view adds to Treaty delay\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234b4e4cb5ed04ac7945cb86de3871649\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave also to table an article of 5 May 2007: \u201CFlak flies over Treaty secrets\u201D in the New Zealand Herald.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc0ec3d2b2eb426d97d4ea400cf40244\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes, there is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e221ac4a78644939e17ca4afc446a6c\u0022\u003ETelevision New Zealand\u2014Charter\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1533140215b4f079a855038028df6c4\u0022\u003EDr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Broadcasting: What has the TVNZ charter delivered for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef7ffd7e4b964b279843ac9c9bed4262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef7ffd7e4b964b279843ac9c9bed4262\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Broadcasting: The Television New Zealand (TVNZ) charter has some 10 objectives within it. I am advised that TVNZ delivers to those objectives and produces a range of programmes consistent with those objectives, and screens a range of programmes consistent with those objectives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4c124beb6274a00a405287cff1df260\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the New Zealand On Air 2006 television local content report, and how does he explain the fact that since the implementation of the TVNZ charter, the total local content hours on both Television One and TV2 have been in steady decline, with 12 percent less local content on Television One and 20 percent less local content on TV2 in 2006, compared with 2002; and would the Minister expect the charter to deliver more or less local content on TVNZ?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da46540541dc4e44b45826c66ff59374\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I make two points. TVNZ\u2019s own statement in relation to these matters is: \u201CWe operate in both a local and international framework. Our mission is to bring you more and better of New Zealand On Air, as well as the best from around the world.\u201D In fact, Television One now averages 67 hours of local content a week, compared with an average of 49 hours a week under the last National Government, which is an increase of 36 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241a14875d02b4019bba597faf358b95f\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government\u2019s broadcasting policy delivered for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db0738a82f54ee894ff59027f2d3be9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s broadcasting policy has delivered nearly double the hours of local content on free-to-air television, double the hours of New Zealand music on radio, the launch of digital free-to-air television, a strong and competitive screen production sector, the M\u0101ori Television Service, and the Pacific Island radio network, to name just a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287076ca0bf1f44d88d5abd299a7aab70\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister admit that his broadcasting policy and the TVNZ charter is actually delivering a year-on-year decline in the amount of local content being shown on Television New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce1cc4b8752d4c63af1be91e96b2981a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: It is correct that in recent times there has been a slight fall, but the average is still significantly higher than it was under the National Government. It has not been year-on-year. That is not actually correct, and I suggest the member reads the graph a little more carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022458d693c658a4d718e635b326cebcce2\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister say in his press statement following the release of the New Zealand On Air report that: \u201CThis proves that all of New Zealand\u2019s national free-to-air TV channels are boosting local content,\u201D; why did he deliberately mislead the public by creating the impression that local content was going up on TVNZ when, in fact, it is very obviously going down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f570efa95e64650be5de3a9f2cbf31a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: That press statement refers to New Zealand\u2019s free-to-air television. In 1999 free-to-air television carried 6,142 hours of New Zealand content. In the last year it carried 10,255.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c566dcc4dc4f47f39251a0ecb6958735\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister realise that when he tries to fudge the figures on local TV content, just as when he refuses to say how many children will have access to 20 free hours, and just as when he continues to spin-doctor the serious problems with the National Certificate of Educational Achievement, it just reinforces for the public John Tamihere\u2019s view that: \u201CYou can spend 2 hours with Maharey and walk away none the wiser, but you\u2019ve got three screeds of paper full of notes.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df370aae15494a3aba6dae9b6079a8c5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will call the Minister, but that question was substantially out of order in the imputations that were made. The substance of the question was out of order\u2014that is what leads to disorder, if you read the Standing Orders\u2014but I call the Hon Dr Michael Cullen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864c6987d1e8434c97bdcaa08f998edd\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: I would much rather take my colleague the Minister\u2019s views on life than those of somebody who blows smoke in women\u2019s faces and has a punch-up in public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223caaf04a50bd4587b032b51bd0b921a5\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the answer matched the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be543b20ea8c4512ad703d7268353eb8\u0022\u003EDr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister says that the Government is committed to the core objective of building national identity and will do so through television, does he not realise that New Zealanders do not want to be told by the Government what their identity is, and that using a State-owned broadcaster to try to shape national identity is actually a feature of totalitarian regimes, not Western democracies; or does he secretly fancy himself as the \u201CMP for Palmerston North Korea\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8adcdcae6594d19be7e43ec79b8942f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN\u003C/span\u003E: If we were a totalitarian regime, it would be hard to understand why an ex - National Party candidate co-hosts a breakfast TV programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831f9efa6c784d178de2de9b8f7be850\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are getting close again to having question time in silence, and that can be painful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4e254abd634013bd9543b429ba6a66\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the 2006 local content survey, showing that not only did the percentage of news and current affairs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229adcd613ff204fce913564b3b432ab6c\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. I remind members that they just identify the document; they do not read from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b93d8cfa4b6640578a1c6b0c83338ee6\u0022\u003EAmbulance Services\u2014Deaths and Single-crewed Ambulances\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227141623789a84e3e90db0766bd7fb3f0\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Have any New Zealanders died over the last 5 years because an emergency call-out was responded to by a single-crewed ambulance with insufficient staff to treat a patient adequately and transport the patient to hospital; if so, how many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u002250318809f3414b5f8d8a9cbc077fc931\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250318809f3414b5f8d8a9cbc077fc931\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Acting Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised by the Ministry of Health that no report it holds has single crewing as the primary cause of death. However, the more services and facilities that are available, of course the better it will be, and those services are being progressively provided and improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c394064e448452e854d69e5220875bf\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that the Government has absolutely no idea how many people are dying or becoming disabled as a result of single crewing, because it monitors only ambulance response times and has no record of whether an ambulance arrived singled crewed and could treat and transport a patient properly, or was single crewed and the patient died as a result of that; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd06849e051d47dd8655944c3f756d49\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I can only repeat that the Ministry of Health has no information that a single-crewed ambulance was the single or major cause of any death. If the member has that information, she should provide it. What I can say is that the present level of double crewing, at 82 percent of call-outs, is the highest it has been, to my knowledge, in the history of St John Ambulance, and the Government is committed to advancing that to 100 percent just as soon as it is possible to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228254b084b5145738919ee66ee7a77a0\u0022\u003ELesley Soper\u003C/span\u003E: What changes have been introduced in the ambulance services over the past 3 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221961740dbda840bfae1a125bd4873b36\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has provided considerable extra funding over the last 3 years, to achieve the present level of at least 82 percent of call-outs being double crewed. We have to remember, I advise the House, that there are 700 full-time professional St John Ambulance officers, and there are 2,500 volunteers. It is the organisation of those volunteers, particularly in rural areas, that provides major difficulties. But there has been extra funding for 67 full-time staff equivalents, and, as I say, the growth of the service towards double crewing by professional and qualified officers is increasing regularly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022503cd5e8e4f84f3b8024d0f098296a6f\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Can he explain to the House how an ambulance officer is expected to drive an ambulance while at the same time providing adequate treatment to a patient in an emergency, as ambulance officers had to do in about 50,000 emergency ambulance call-outs last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225480c97760494f2494c2e3795c09fddc\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Common sense would tell me that that is impossible, and it is not required or expected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1e63755fe3a47c78010083a08f21fc0\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Further to the Minister\u2019s answer, is the Minister aware that last year approximately 50,000 emergency calls were responded to by single-crewed ambulances and that in March this year 70 percent of all emergency call-outs in the central North Island were responded to with single crews\u2014in breach of the national standard\u2014and does he think it is fair that the chance of someone in a life-threatening situation getting proper treatment depends on where that person lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f88bc86baf10421b857370cb652e144a\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: My advice is that the national standard is that best endeavours will be made to have double-crewed ambulances. As I have advised the House, at the moment that level is 82 percent. I can also advise the House that there has been increased funding each year for the last 3 years for this service\u2014averaging between 8 and 10 percent a year\u201467 extra full-time equivalent paid ambulance officers, as I said, and significant investment in three new technologically advanced ambulance communication centres. This Government is doing more to assist the St John Ambulance service than any other Government has done in recent memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ac1dd1d227d414a9365296b5db26352\u0022\u003ENathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister of Health tell the House last week that at least 82 percent of ambulance call-outs are double crewed, and that as better data becomes available it may prove the number to be higher than that, when the data supplied to me by Horowhenua ambulance staff on the ground shows that 50 percent of call-outs are single crewed; what is the Minister doing to ensure that lives are not put at risk in Horowhenua, or does he not care about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215d831c5adfd44f690e61c595becbadf\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: It may come as a surprise to the member, but the St John Ambulance service operates outside Horowhenua as well as there. The Minister was replying on the basis that 82 percent of the national service provided by St John Ambulance is double crewed. I have already indicated to the House that in rural areas, where it also has to rely on volunteers to assist with the crewing of St John Ambulances, there has also been\u2014and still is\u2014some difficulty. The Government is moving, with improved funding, to increase that 82 percent figure in all areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758c0d1054a84211bc1e7f4afaa36550\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that on 2 March a 56-year-old man in cardiac arrest was attended to by a single-crewed ambulance and the patient died.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a011969118d94672a4176a9c0b817388\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb79726eb7b4d7ea219feee7727351f\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that on 15 March a 76-year-old man had a cardiac arrest, was attended to by a single-crewed vehicle, and the patient died.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b04e4aa19f4f40a888544e4c64037eab\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba19dba62604b2090974d31e792483d\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that on 26 March a 64-year-old female was attended to by a single-crewed ambulance and the patient died.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b91d67a4a13345c39d1c3ca925431e26\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249dcd13926a04380b8dffe590665a3fb\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that a man dying from a crash in 2003 died after a single-crewed ambulance was unable to take the badly injured man to hospital\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022426e7daaa6884d1eb4172a16ecf14f3a\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f69c577ff6e74f2bbb04261d29a3acbe\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document showing that an Auckland man died after a bee sting, when the single-crewed ambulance that attended him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a787c0fc9e8a40bda50cbc5149152a21\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022227fab60dda4412a81e0ba5100d00de9\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a chart showing that in the Horowhenua area in March, 70 percent of the ambulances that responded to emergencies were single crewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aea04d4058ec46bda30f44c68002c56e\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240a76a94936d4f4fa90a063d60bd730b\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Confidence in Management\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200b3177f64b1465e8a136e9552466c92\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Is she satisfied with the performance of police management; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022281d8243c8864377856f5e2a4f8185b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022281d8243c8864377856f5e2a4f8185b6\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E In general, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5545beb89b24398ba57f97524f8ddc9\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm the statement issued by police at 2.34 this afternoon that the Hamilton police officer lying in hospital after being stabbed four times in the torso yesterday had not been issued with a stab-proof vest but had been only measured for one; and in light of the mismanagement of the roll-out of these vests how can she hide behind the excuse that this is an operational matter, when clearly it is a matter of life and death?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c521cca0d704a6ca6f4e31594541c11\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I would like to express my deep regret at the stabbing of an officer in Hamilton. I wish him a speedy recovery. I say also that I deeply regret that the stab-proof body armour is not available for all front-line officers at this stage. The project has been dogged by problems and delays. I wish the police could enact this programme as fast as possible, but mistakes have been made along the way that the police must take responsibility for\u2014and they do. I say to the member that I hide behind nobody, as Minister. I front the issues. Hiding might have been the action of past Governments, but it is certainly not the action of this Government to hide behind anybody, even though the member is quite big enough to hide behind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222a849ed4-a817-45a7-8b86-dbc9dd210193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd1d20a05fe4efd9d124a16758d9672\u0022\u003EJill Pettis\u003C/span\u003E: What is the latest information the Minister has received on yesterday\u2019s claim by Mr Brownlee that the two Dominion Post reporters did not report the alleged incident of the rifle in the back of the car to the police at the time, because, as Mr Brownlee said: \u201CThe police were not too far from where they were, and they thought they\u201D\u2014meaning the police\u2014\u201Ccould see it.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd6bcb1466d475a83bb12aa627244f5\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I have received some very interesting information, which raises questions about the truth of Mr Brownlee\u2019s assertions yesterday. Wanganui police early today asked to interview the two reporters concerned, to discover more detail about what they may or may not have seen. So far, no official response has apparently been received from the Dominion Post, but it does seem that the reporter who wrote the story and reported seeing the rifle in the back seat now apparently claims not to have seen such an incident. It may have been reported to him second-hand by the photographer. It also seems that the photographer may not have seen any gun\u2014if one actually existed\u2014on the back seat of the car, either, but rather saw one in the boot. I said yesterday that Gerry Brownlee made it up, but time will tell and I will keep the House informed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ab50e8037f44c0ebebac339155c010c\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I want to apologise to the House for getting it wrong\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022487170c50bb44291a32880f06e666126\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members will leave the Chamber!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b7c83b6f4d46b0b325403da40ec40e\u0022\u003EGerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Quite clearly, it was inappropriate for me to say that the rifle was on the back seat when it was in the boot all the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f901b4e1f2c54d4792f268aaa4224fe7\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that front-line police were first promised stab-resistant vests in June last year, then in February 2007 and then in May, but that fewer than half of officers have them now\u2014all because management ordered the wrong colour, the wrong material, the wrong design, and then the wrong sizes, which means that 1,500 tiny little vests are now in storage, wasting $1.5 million that could have been spent on other tools to keep front-line police safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d08a1d1bef643f69d704fba7fef08bf\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has pretty much summed up some of the errors that have been made with the purchase of these vests. [Interruption] However\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aaa1ddbb9084a34a23dc0d85af69cf1\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, would the Minister please be seated. We will hear the rest of this question in silence, because I cannot hear what is happening. If I cannot, I am sure that other members in the Chamber cannot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4f4b90eb3fd43098f9bc581cf922075\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: However, I think it is important to tell the House that 3,241 vests have already been issued to staff. Another 1,500 are in the process of being issued in the incremental roll-out. There are 1,700 in storage, and I think that New Zealand First would be pleased to hear that, because the vests are able to be used for new officers in the future. We are recruiting 1,000 additional officers, and there are\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a780bbc3a3d4898a2f72dc097ad22e4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce0f6ddaf2f04c3b9b5ef0a6d06060be\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014officers who change sizes. Some of them get bigger and some get smaller, so the vests are able to be used; they will not be wasted. I believe that the police will ensure that those officers who require them will get them. But that does not excuse the fact that this project has been very slow in its roll-out, with quite a number of problems that I think could have been better managed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224328b85218e43a59437308a24c48f9a\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Twice during the Minister of Police\u2019s answer Phil Heatley interjected\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d80ddda368d649f9ad1eb67384ed0408\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228df0da36de014feabe3878eed75e1f22\u0022\u003EDarren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014after you had specifically asked the House to hear the answer in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da4916580b0240b2a91a4c78df875a9b\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did, and I was waiting to the end until I drew the House\u2019s attention to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EPhil Heatley withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221abb2a553e954e6098f664b187fdd9c1\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I just wonder whether the Minister would like to reconsider her answer. She said that 3,200 or so vests had been issued, with 1,500 to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022785827b9bf764f35b679c6c799a4a9a4\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a supplementary question; it is not a point of order. But the member will please proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347a1573935d48709925576c7cfcac27\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Well, her initial statement said that there were 6,910 vests to be rolled out, and the figures do not add up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227afdf6551ab242cfb296c5aac22caeef\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member can ask a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220476a4a16bb34c15a89b7e3d57ebe982\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: I will move on; does the Minister stand by her response to the Bazley report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229f27b10aa024f0a9614683ccd1bb19f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are hearing this question in silence; otherwise there will be nobody left in the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d6f006d333644f9aff1d65f6c65e52c\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by her response to the Bazley report that there can be no tolerance for disgraceful conduct by police officers involved in the exploitation of vulnerable people; if she does, why has the previous head of the Horowhenua Criminal Investigation Bureau (CIB), Detective Sergeant Peter Govers, been demoted rather than sacked for harassing a female informant for sex, with the option of returning to the CIB after 2 years and having promotion after a year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd241525b9b4647a948764be95bc303\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: I hope that I can get a couple of answers in here, because I want to tell the member, who did not hear me properly, that in fact 3,241 vests have been issued, and 1,500 are in the process of being issued. The figure of 6,527 vests have been received. Those are the latest figures I have, so if that helps the member I am happy to provide that information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIn response to the member\u2019s question regarding the demotion of an officer, who I think carried out conduct not becoming of the New Zealand Police, I can say that a decision on what would happen to this police officer was made before the commission of inquiry\u2019s report actually came out. I believe, as Mr Howard Broad, the commissioner, said on television last night, that if the issue came before us today the officer would lose his job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac9483125f874e44a33ea5a7bec6bbf1\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister claimed that Govers was not dismissed because this action took place before she received the recommendations of the Bazley report, when for 3 years those in police management knew they were under the spotlight for the way they had handled these kinds of claims, they had seen drafts of the Bazley report, and they had even begun to implement its recommendations before it was released, yet on 19 March, 2 weeks before the Bazley report went public, they still chose to demote rather than dismiss?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022753024b284034a55b70fb394823e83e1\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: There are two very important recommendations out of the 48 that Dame Margaret made, in relation to the police\u2014two very important ones, which will be implemented this year. The first is in relation to the code of conduct. Unfortunately, the member put out a statement a few days ago saying there is already a code of conduct. I do not know whether that member remembers what is in place in the police. The report of the commission of inquiry states that there is no code of conduct, the head office of the New Zealand Police says there is no code of conduct, and the Police Association says there is no code of conduct. I know that there is no code of conduct. The only code of conduct applies to non-sworn officers. So the implementation of a code of conduct does make a difference, because it allows the police to consider behaviour as a whole and not be restricted by prescribed breaches of conduct, as currently detailed in the police regulations. That leads me to the second important recommendation, that the regulations governing the disciplinary matters of the police be changed. They will be changed, I believe, by September of this year. They probably should have been changed a long time ago, but they will be changed this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022562f44358b574c6292e24b85c434c6c9\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to the women of this country who believed her assurances and those of the Prime Minister that their complaints about improper conduct by the police would be taken seriously, when she now appears to be telling them that zero tolerance applies to disgraceful conduct that occurred only after 3 April, which is when the Bazley report was released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e266e22f584c3f89252ace2b7fc863\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not what I am saying to the women of New Zealand. I am so pleased that it took this Prime Minister in this Labour-led Government, this Minister of Police, and the previous Minister of Police to take those women seriously and to set up a commission of inquiry to ensure that those issues were looked into. That never happened under a National Government. National never took it seriously. This Government did. We have 48 recommendations, and the assurance I give to the women of New Zealand is that every one of those recommendations will be implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3a438f6202d4974a99eae9e26588074\u0022\u003EBus Services, Wellington\u2014Environmental Friendliness\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ae65108da914bdcb3b94fc8a9f81e91\u0022\u003EHon MARIAN HOBBS (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent developments, if any, have there been in providing environmentally friendly bus services in the Wellington region?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00221621fe9ad2ef4255b7ed5d018aeea692\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221621fe9ad2ef4255b7ed5d018aeea692\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E This afternoon I will attend the signing of a contract between the Greater Wellington Regional Council and New Zealand Bus Ltd, which will result in the complete rebuilding of Wellington\u2019s 60 electric-powered trolley buses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298dead0d58c0448496cf78e35d96666e\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: When are you going to use the bus yourself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a4d865618f4ec0ad0f1b64953af0ed\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good question. Actually, I have a bus ticket and I do use the bus on quite a regular basis. Funding for this project is shared between Greater Wellington Regional Council and the Government through Land Transport New Zealand. The contract will ensure that larger, more comfortable trolley buses will continue to provide an essential transport service to Wellington residents, while contributing to reduced greenhouse gas emissions and reduced local air pollution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221583b5cb-f4e0-4981-97ba-193c338ff404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230bdf07357ab4dfda9cdaafd1c005bdc\u0022\u003EHon Marian Hobbs\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister\u2014I am really delighted\u2014and ask: what are the environmental benefits of trolley buses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223532796dfb144dd29e01481a7fc9df58\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very good question, and I pay a compliment back to the member and to Sue Kedgley, who have been strong advocates for the trolley buses in Wellington. Trolley buses produce no local air pollution, which makes Wellington inner city a great place in which to work and live. I am advised that the new buses will also save over 1,600 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions per year, compared with their diesel bus equivalents. The amount of electricity used by the fleet of 60 buses\u2014and this will be very interesting to Mr Brownlee, the Opposition spokesperson on energy\u2014is equivalent to that produced by about half of one new windmill installed at TrustPower\u2019s new Tararua wind farm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c11f2b4f1aa4cda8c8d649079d34149\u0022\u003ELaw Commission\u2014Confidence in President\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228135e980e9c4b7da4d54ee124d9588a\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for the Law Commission: Does he have confidence in the judgment of the president of the Law Commission; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5597d52f05b4116a6013a38f4ccd17e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5597d52f05b4116a6013a38f4ccd17e\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON (Minister responsible for the Law Commission):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202e5b627dcf54fb289842a56f40847fb\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the former Minister of Justice Geoffrey Palmer that the Law Commission will be more independent of the Government than any other Law Commission in the Commonwealth; if so, in how many other Commonwealth countries does the president of the Law Commission donate almost $11,000 to the governing political party that appointed him or her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226369c42b4de34ec0ba2cd4f89822e881\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: To the first question, yes, because it is; that is a matter of legal fact. Secondly, this Law Commission president was appointed on his undeniable competence, qualification, and high integrity. I suggest to that member that the president was appointed for the same reason that the former Prime Minister the Rt Hon Jim Bolger was retained as an ambassador in a highly sensitive position\u2014because he was competent and his integrity was beyond reproach. It was equally appropriate. I say to the junior Opposition whip, who is rubbing his little fingers together, that the difference is that in the case of Geoffrey Palmer we know transparently what he has given in terms of donations. We have no idea about the secret donations that are smuggled into the National Party through its secret trust accounts. That is the difference; this is open and transparent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221100f1622c174210944ec0e6ee93ba87\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know there are certain rules about what members can say in this House. Most of them, without pointing it out clearly, require members to back their comments up. I think Mr Tau Henare\u2019s comment about a former Prime Minister being a hack is really unbecoming of parliamentary behaviour, and I ask him to apologise. If he has any reason why he should say that, then perhaps he should ask a question to back it up. Calling former Prime Ministers hacks and stoolies and things like that is really not something to be encouraged in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222643c8cdacaa4051a2259c9362a2b7cb\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is unfortunate such comments are, in fact, used from time to time, and they probably reflect on the various members who actually use them. I ask for the next supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296fd645ecf9e4fb7bf637b2e8304ad76\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not even a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ba48233d5c49db8df59ea0e8bb3c78\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is what I have said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b0e920e47ef4012a39034f88f5ed8cf\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why didn\u2019t you say that at the beginning?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9227ab1945d48e0a211debdc6ed09d8\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would you like to leave the Chamber, Mr Henare, thank you very much. You can come back for your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare withdrew from the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203c1ab48e67449c2954fe73394762e2f\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: How can the public have confidence in the independence and impartiality of the Law Commission when it next considers electoral reform, when that independence and impartiality appear to have been compromised by the president of the Law Commission donating almost $11,000 to bail out the Labour Party\u2019s breach of the Electoral Act when it illegally spent over $800,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a00d80485b07468e853ecd8c23ac8767\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: People can have confidence because the president of the Law Commission is a man of high integrity and reputation, unlike some of the members asking questions in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a37a9158995d4812a972fa98d430c559\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s just a party hack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ba4309df9b24d538c4ac57095699baa\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Smith over there is chirping away. That same criticism could be levelled at Jim Bolger but it should not be, for the same reason\u2014he is a man of integrity. Jim Bolger had a highly sensitive position and was possessed of information highly damaging potentially to this country. This Government trusted him because it had reason to. His integrity is beyond reproach; so is Sir Geoffrey Palmer\u2019s. I think using this matter to try to score political points reflects appallingly on those members who do that. It will do them no good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220356b38e41d7440faa1e687435821a1c\u0022\u003EHon Georgina te Heuheu\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen reports from Andrew Ladley, the former coalition manager for the Government, who said: \u201C\u2026 it would be unwise for someone in Sir Geoffrey\u2019s position to make political donations.\u201D, and: \u201COrdinarily a senior person in public service would exercise their judgement very carefully before making a substantial donation because of the perception that could be around that they would not carry out their public service duties in a politically neutral fashion.\u201D; if so, why does the Minister insist that the president of the Law Commission should be exempt from standards of independence and neutrality that apply to all other public servants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ffee89ae05e4d1fa58b661ee1b5d238\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: We seem to have a trend today of selective quoting. I will go on to say what Dr Ladley actually concluded: \u201C\u2026 there\u2019s unlikely to be any question of judgment, given that Sir Geoffrey\u2019s background was well known before he took up the role.\u201D Look, the question is this: is this man, this former Prime Minister, someone of high quality, high confidence, and integrity? The answer is \u201CYes.\u201D He is undeniably a highly appropriate appointment to this position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a80afb22fe284d8493d1c39f0bc39ce0\u0022\u003EChristopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister not agree that the real issue here is not Sir Geoffrey\u2019s competence, high reputation, honesty, or transparency, which I for one do not question, but his judgment, or in this case the lack of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b59d0b138f4fe4a15c787b073e78b7\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. Had Sir Geoffrey chosen to donate a few hundred dollars less, this matter, of course, would not have required a declaration. He knowingly made an open, transparent donation to a party that he was the Prime Minister and leader of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f8c14fb-b919-46ef-866b-8db68cfa4cf0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b145ca61160f4dbda9cbcb9d76d852e7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Michael Cullen\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of the question from Georgina te Heuheu, does the Minister intend that before appointing anybody to any office he will ask whether that person has made any donation to any political party\u2014for example, the former Governor of the Reserve Bank to the National Party\u2014and will recommend his colleagues also do the same; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002272e48ab0-e7ae-427f-bedc-793b7a91adba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eccaedd342ba48aab8e1f868024c5463\u0022\u003EHon MARK BURTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a tempting proposition but, of course, as I have indicated in earlier answers, the question is whether people will be appropriate appointments. I have no idea, for instance, whether any judge or any head of any agency has made donations this year or any other year to the National Party, nor do I care, because it is their competence and their integrity that is the issue at point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6137b22317541e3bf8afd470c544bd9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a number of articles from newspapers at the time of the appointment of Sir Keith Holyoake to be Governor-General of this country that indicate that National was outraged when some members of the Labour Party accused him of being a hack\u2014inappropriately so on that occasion, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDocuments not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6aae7fe92444281b1b2404435f34d7b\u0022\u003EBroadband Network\u2014Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d7fc3e3fea640df9e5ae542264d220c\u0022\u003EDAVE HEREORA (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Communications: Has he received any further reports on financing improvements to New Zealand\u2019s broadband network?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002210e27e6845e04355b5d2d1d4faaefe67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210e27e6845e04355b5d2d1d4faaefe67\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Communications):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have seen reported today in the New Zealand Herald Bill English opposing Government investment in this country\u2019s broadband infrastructure\u2014contradicting his co-leader, John Key, who last week proposed doing exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225c22a83-ff2c-474c-a092-883be2dd63d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ed363057dd4a83a7fa5282b97d9754\u0022\u003EDave Hereora\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports on investment by local authorities in New Zealand\u2019s broadband infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227335ec68fd0844c8884304dbf420b50c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, in the same New Zealand Herald report Bill English is quoted as being concerned at local bodies investing in broadband infrastructure for their citizens. So he is undermining not only his leader but also the efforts of hard-working, self-sacrificing New Zealand communities that are doing their bit to bring faster broadband to the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022415b88b448e54ccc9881ad61a4e53224\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government implement the policy of the Australian Labor Party and promote a Government-funded national fibre network, in light of Bill English\u2019s statement in the New Zealand Herald that National will look at adopting this policy; if not, why obviously is it to be not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022571c2268de834bf683e0122afab88f91\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the member, I find it immensely amusing that the National Party should look to adopt the policy of the Labor Party of another country. The Government is at a delicate stage in implementing the Telecommunications Amendment Act\u2014legislation that, miraculously, both Mr Key and Mr English voted for at the same time. Now, even if they could agree on their own policy, it would be totally inappropriate for them to wade into this matter at such a delicate time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227562281a5e984022b72f53462665d01f\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister stick to the question please. Superfluous comments lead only to disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002238968e2f48434b21b591510e5226fe09\u0022\u003ETe Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250223b5b00844f318b8a46690e8a434f\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs: Does he have confidence in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u00225d0b3d31bdce48d598584ce34876427a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d0b3d31bdce48d598584ce34876427a\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have confidence in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, because the staff and employees are hard-working and conscientious people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022137055a66f10439fb13d20b6ab207414\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Why did Te Puni K\u014Dkiri let one-fifth of all of its contracts to contractors in 2005-06\u2014$1.5 million of taxpayers\u2019 money\u2014without any tendering process whatsoever?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f5418a37014def94fddc24c984ecd4\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Te Puni K\u014Dkiri entered into 262 contracts for that period. The total value of all contracts awarded was $7.5 million. There is certainly a limited market of expertise in this market in developing M\u0101ori issues. Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s benchmark was $50,000. Where it has gone above it and not tendered, it has gone for the best person in a very limited market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250ebc65c5f26466792add2ebe38e9dca\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that four of the 10 largest contracts Te Puni K\u014Dkiri let to contractors in 2005-06 were let without tender, including one to a Nicky Birch for $100,000 because she \u201Cwas known to the Ministry\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229e1ccb8d9a6485685fe3c365c6ad151\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that added bit at the end of that question. There is more of an issue in the sense of the skills of Nicky Birch. Can I remind that member that expenditure on contractors and consultants has decreased over the last 2 financial years. In 2004-05 it was $7.9 million; in 2005-06 it was $6.9 million. It is projected downwards to $5.5 million this financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f59433e42664e0aa77eb101224dffba\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm his answer to question for written answer No. 03296 that a contract worth $67,000 was let without tender to Michael Dreaver because the contractor was available, and that another contract worth $58,000 was let without tender to Donna Matahaere because the contractor was available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae63418a3f9145d1b7360190f2e7a33b\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: As I said earlier on, and I will remind that member, although it was Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s general policy to tender for contracts over $50,000, where this has not occurred it has been for a number of reasons, including where specialist skills were required, where there was a limited field of contractors in M\u0101ori public policy available for business continuity, and they were available at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc0a714dc9a4a658904a2b10ea7bd47\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How can the New Zealand taxpaying public have confidence in Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s financial responsibility when one-fifth of all its contracts are let without tender and for such reasons as \u201Cthe contractor used to work at TPK\u201D, and \u201Cthe contractor knew people at TPK\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0b2aa6197ba49a19c9261ebc58950a4\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: There are strong requirements in the sense of the outcomes in relation to these contracts. I have written to that member with detail around each one. It is quite fascinating that Mr Henare is the person who is talking about contracting and taking contracts, because I remember when he got $260,000 to set up a chat show in the garage. He referred to it and aligned it with The Kumars at No 42. Nothing came out of that\u2014nothing whatsoever. That is what a shoddy use of taxpayers\u2019 money is! I remind that member about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285472578c9e143b9a450b915ff8768b7\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I did not ask a question about The Kumars at No 42 or whether people watched my show, which was actually quite a good show. I actually asked the Minister about whether the taxpaying public should have confidence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022199b3d7624154a92a4fb6098691c3762\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the member\u2019s point of order. The Minister did address the question and then strayed into superfluous matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022728309f54c2141898999face439af21c\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that in late 2006\u2014last year\u2014the Auditor-General advised the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri needs to be cognisant of prudent financial management\u2014for example, its own contracting guidelines\u2014and that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s 2006 financial review found that Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s contract management systems failed to comply with Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s own operational guidelines; and what will the Minister do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e73d78791bd4333bd62903a805bf176\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: As that member knows, on the select committee there has been a continued review. Certainly, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2019s processes and systems have been strengthened beyond any performance that that member was into. I invite him into my office to talk to the officials again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a86a915bf8f4fe797bdd5e937c795dc\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Is it OK for the Minister to address the question in any which way he wants to without even reference to the question? That is what I get a bit put out by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b2075d8107469a93283d15d86579e6\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. As the member is aware, Ministers are required to address the questions but frequently it is not to the satisfaction of those who ask the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266dc2b0ad2ee4700a88a333052ef8333\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table a list of the untendered contracts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c5dc54977c94227977fa017f03c3878\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the answer to question for written answer No. 03294: the total value of all contracts awarded by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc62ceae08441ac8769f08ce13c444d\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebee6ff23b864e3f95d43214c2d62865\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the answer to question for written answer No. 03296 about all of the untendered contracts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a14ce1903ab741968541c1a1e29f9cc2\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a18b9b3daea5412b9075e040db01b20d\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the answer to question for written answer No. 03295, which sets out the 10 largest contracts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225631831b9545470ebc41af5f626aceec\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002261eeee6c4c4a485f80f606be0a1ef972\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a09f0251e44945cf916ee6d27670bc84\u0022\u003EAnzac Day Ceremony\u2014Attendance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00222a40ae9cd7b4412882905ed1e330edce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a40ae9cd7b4412882905ed1e330edce\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Last week Sue Moroney stated that she was the only member who attended the Anzac Day dawn ceremony in Cambridge. That statement was incorrect. I attended the ceremony together with my husband and my son, who was wearing his great-grandfather\u2019s medals from World War I. Therefore, I have sought to make this statement to correct the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022022cfe6b-bae4-4028-b68a-ccffb4269442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022305a5bd9a944478d900b8a92e60410da\u0022\u003EMadam SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7037f9880f349518f38527a223ba3b9\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002205ab5e92f6e9492b92419a2034125675\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000295\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 8 May.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a268884a9084b0fb003a44ef21ad762\u0022\u003EPart 1  Social Security Act 1964 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00222b7187b7b0a241f182f9a192366ee589\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b7187b7b0a241f182f9a192366ee589\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E One of the concerns we have raised in relation to this bill is the issue of the microchipping of entitlement cards. We are particularly concerned that if we have that sort of technology put in place, we should be very upfront and honest about its purpose. Certainly, at the Social Services Committee we heard that this is effectively a card to allow commercial entities to give discounts to seniors and to veterans. We do not see any problem with that; we just do not understand why we need to have technology such as microchips to enable that to happen. Most of us know that these sorts of things happen anyway, and no commercial entity would be lawfully required to provide those discounts\u2014certainly not under this legislation. So this is a concern that we raised at the select committee, and we will continue to raise it in relation to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00221421c68d355945b6979d5d296b848b0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221421c68d355945b6979d5d296b848b0f\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party supports the SuperGold card, which will be very useful for superannuitants. We will be voting for the legislation as a whole and we hope it will lead to benefits for pensioners, more discounts, etc. However, the Greens see big privacy issues at stake in the legislative provision for microchips. The Law Society said that this is the first time the use of microchips has been authorised on such a large scale and that there is no need for this provision to be included in the legislation at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIf we look at the amendments before the Committee today, and at the comments made by the different parties across the political spectrum, there seems to be a recognition of the privacy implications in putting microchips on cards and the need for these to be assessed before they are brought into operation. The obvious solution is to leave the question of whether we need legislation to put microchips on cards until after we have had a proper inquiry. That is why the Greens will be supporting Heather Roy\u2019s amendment to take out of the bill any authorisation for microchips on the SuperGold card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhen we have the inquiry into microchips on the card the first thing we need to bring into play is the Privacy Commissioner. It is shocking that she has been left out so far when this measure obviously has such privacy implications. She is certainly concerned about what could happen. In this morning\u2019s New Zealand Herald the Privacy Commissioner, Marie Shroff, urges caution and says \u201CThere is the potential for \u2018function creep\u2019 where the card ends up being used for far more than it was originally intended.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe see this function creep all over the place, such as with more and more Government databases being matched and linked up, and there is an equivalent phenomenon in the private sector. It is clear that microchip technology enables easier and greater exchange of information between cards and databases than simply the magnetic strip or the barcode. It can work two ways. Not only can more information on the chip be put into more and more databases and manipulated there but also it can go the other way around with additional information, or categories of information, being put on to the microchip itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn question time today the Minister in charge of this bill, Winston Peters, said more than once that we should not worry because we already have microchips on our passports. That is enlightening for us, because our passports now have our facial characteristics in a digital form primarily so that US Department of Homeland Security can download that information if we pass through an American airport, so that it can compare that digital information with what is in its database. I think that that extension of information on microchips is the sort of area the Privacy Commissioner is talking about when she talks about function creep. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is important to recognise that there are different types of cards containing microchips. Having a bus card that debits according to one\u2019s trips is very useful and the Greens are not opposed to that. It is not an ID card as such. What is different about the SuperGold card is that it is an ID card that has various information about the person. In this case, of course, it is useful to have a card that can be used to access various services, but we have to be careful as we go down the track of what we use on that card to ensure it is not a Trojan Horse\u2014a move towards a more generalised ID card covering everyone and containing all sorts of additional information that may undermine our privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E There have been huge debates overseas about ID cards that other Governments are trying to bring in, like those being introduced by the Government in Britain at the present time. In Britain the cards are being brought in, bit by bit, explicitly as an ID card for people to use in a whole range of Government activities. First it is being brought in for new migrants, and then it will be extended out to the whole population. The Greens are worried that that sort of thing could happen here with this function creep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022748065f0a095498aac316045f606ef4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022748065f0a095498aac316045f606ef4c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Could we just get a few things sorted out before we go any further in this debate. I think the 540,000 New Zealanders who are retired, or soon to be retired, deserve to hear the truth. We need to dispose of some of the misinformation so wantonly put out there. For a start, where did that member, Keith Locke, get the idea that this was to be related to information-sharing with the United States or any other country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd69bf140cad4d0da53ac90f39930d2b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac7e00b59b454b39928997b871b728b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: He did say it. That is one of the things he said in that speech. That is not\u2014[Interruption] I ask members to check Hansard or do us and me a favour\u2014listen to their colleagues debating in the Chamber. He most certainly referred to sharing information with the United States. [Interruption] Excuse me\u2014I ask the member to sit down and not to do that again. It is unbelievable, Madam Chair, that while I am on my feet, that member, who has been here for a while, gets up and starts to behave like that. I say it is not pertinent, it is not relevant, and it has not been introduced or thought about at all. The fact that he related passports to this issue is an attempt to scaremonger amongst the elderly, otherwise why would he have raised it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that nobody is being microchipped. Nobody is being microchipped. [Interruption] Madam Chair, if he does that again, would you get him out of this Chamber because he cannot do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fae7af0d-c48d-4dd4-88f3-928ccaa3a984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac17742d64a496ebb6aef1d1eb54455\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot rise and speak like that. If the member wants to rise for a point of order, that is different. However he cannot rise and just join in the debate. Please desist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347955c1797f4d46b8c5ada8ef30700d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody is being microchipped and those who say that are wantonly spreading misinformation, \u201Csadly with malice\u201D to quote the head of the Law Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECould I just say that photos on the card are optional. That is how far we are prepared to go to ensure that there is no process that the elderly will not be happy with. The Law Society will be, has been, and will continue to be consulted, as will the Privacy Commissioner. As we indicated to her from the very start, we intended to go through this process always in consultation with her office to ensure that a very important facility for the elderly was not made use of because the process may have been defective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to make sure that the State Services Commission is consulted, as well. And I am happy for the parties in this Parliament to be consulted, as well. But if anyone thinks that we should stand around and wait whilst the service industries of this country are, as we speak\u2014and I am talking months now, not years\u2014availing themselves of this technology, then surely that person does not intend to be part of the modern environment of politics or commercial services for that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to say that in the New Zealand Herald today there was a front-page report. I want to say this to the New Zealand Herald reporter. For a reporter to call the Minister and leave a message on his cellphone after 6 p.m. the day before that reporter intends to publish an article in a paper that is available on the streets of Auckland at 5 a.m. the next morning is not professional, it is not being responsible, it is not designed to elicit information, but rather to try to make out that the journalist has professionally consulted all parties. That is nonsense. I know when that reporter called and it is simply not good enough. But, most important, to repeat a series of statements that are misinformation\u2014disingenuously so, and worse than that demonstrably false and known to be so by some of the participants\u2014is not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to make it very clear that we will not be deterred because some members rather than help the elderly, have acted differently, as has been their wont to do\u2014not just lately but over many, many years\u2014and believe that they will get away with it. If they think they are going to win on that basis then they will be found out to be wrong. I have spent more time in my career being concerned about privacy issues than that member ever has. I have been more concerned to disclose and put sunlight on certain issues that have never had sunlight on them than that member and his whole party ever has been. So I regard this as a personal slight, as does my party and I am not going to proceed on the basis that that member should trust me, but rather that the process is one that can be trusted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e68962f142394e07b68049fb70d00606\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e68962f142394e07b68049fb70d00606\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the Committee stage of the debate. At the outset I would like to say that the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill is actually a very good initiative for the senior citizens and veterans of this country. My only objection to this bill is the addition of a microchipping provision to the legislation, when the background work on that has not been undertaken\u2014against the advice of the Law Society and against the wording of the Privacy Commissioner. I want to continue to talk about that because, when it comes to the protection of private information about New Zealand citizens, that is a very important issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI wrote a letter to the Privacy Commissioner, because her comment has been noticeably absent both at the select committee hearing and in the public arena, and I was not sure at all whether she knew about this issue. Thankfully she did and has been doing some work on it, but she made some comments generally about the issue of microchipping. She has given me a range of comments, and I want to share some of them with the Committee. The Privacy Commissioner believes the introduction of the card needs to be preceded by a proper assessment of the implications and by an opportunity for public debate on the issues. Mr Peters may well sit there, bag the media, and bag the Opposition for raising these issues, which should be debated in the public arena\u2014everybody else is to blame except himself. He could well have instigated a discussion on this issue himself, but no, getting his precious card through is much more important to Mr Peters than is having a proper and fair public debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E The Ministry of Social Development too was very good in its assessment of the issues raised by the Social Services Committee. I want to talk about one of those issues, which I raised at question time today. The ministry\u2019s advisers were specifically asked about the consequences of recommending that the clause providing for microchips be deleted. This is what they said: \u201CIf clause 5(2) was deleted from the bill, there would be no immediate consequences for the launch and implementation of the SuperGold card.\u201D However, it was reported in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald that an adviser from Mr Peters\u2019 office had told senior citizens that the card had to have the microchip in order to be functional. That is clearly not true, and is a complete misrepresentation of the whole microchipping issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EA public debate on microchipping should be held. There is no point in putting in this legislation an amendment that is not just about this card but the introduction of cards under the Social Security Act, so that microchips can be used in any card that the department wishes to put forward. The issue, of course, is that there are many different types of microchips, but Mr Peters\u2019 legislation does not specify the microchip type or function that will be used. The microchips that we must avoid at any cost are radio frequency identification tags\u2014\u201CRFID\u201Ds. This legislation, if passed into law, will allow for such tags to be put in place and legitimately used to pass on information from senior citizens and veterans to any John Doe on the street, and goodness knows what will then be done with that personal information. That shows a complete disregard for the privacy issues of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Law Society gave a very strong recommendation that a general review should occur around the principles governing the use of high-functional technologies such as microchip technologies, and that the matter should be referred to and commented on thoroughly by the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. That is absolutely the right process to follow. The Privacy Commissioner should have been involved from the outset and asked to comment publicly about these issues. Mr Peters and the Labour Government have neglected the security of some of their most vulnerable citizens, by bypassing basic privacy principles. They are playing privacy poker with other people\u2019s chips, and I tell Mr Peters that that is absolutely outrageous. His card does not need to have a microchip. It can proceed as it was planned, and in the time frame that was planned, without having a microchip. We should take stock of the issues that have been raised both here and overseas. In the last 6 months the United States and the European Union have highlighted the concerns about microchips and have moved away, until proper research and consultation are done, from using microchips of any kind for human identification processes. That is the right and proper thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI will move an amendment that seeks to delete the wording \u201Cor a microchip embedded in them\u201D from Mr Peters\u2019 amendment. I am happy for the magnetic strip to stay on the card, I am happy about the barcode, and I am happy about the optional photograph\u2014I think that is a very good idea\u2014but I want microchips to be removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3a8b12786c14b6e9d2f432a59557493\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3a8b12786c14b6e9d2f432a59557493\u0022\u003ETAITO PHILLIP FIELD (Independent\u2014Mangere):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to congratulate the Rt Hon Winston Peters. I think it is a very good initiative. It is clear up and down this country that the SuperGold card will be in the interests of senior citizens. It will allow their numbers to take advantage of benefits, and we know that other businesses operate by using large numbers of people to gain good concessions, discounts, and benefits for their members. I see no reason why this gold card cannot be used to the benefit of senior citizens, and I congratulate Labour and New Zealand First on this initiative, which formed part of the coalition negotiations that this Government is now putting in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EIn saying that, I appreciate the concerns that other members have had in relation to personal information that could end up in the wrong hands, and how that information could be used. Although I am supportive of this bill, I do appreciate the concerns that have been raised. I had some discussions this morning, particularly with other members, and I acknowledge the contributions of Judith Collins, Tim Barnett, Heather Roy, and Keith Locke. Those members have been in dialogue with me about the wording of an amendment that I believe should give some reassurance to senior citizens about the concerns that were in the media in this morning\u2019s paper, particularly in relation to the president of Grey Power calling for a halt to the process of this bill\u2014certainly in relation to microchipping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EI signal that an amendment in my name has been tabled. That amendment is in relation to ensuring that the critical importance of the protection of the privacy of personal information is conveyed to senior citizens and everybody else, if, in fact, we are looking at technology that could very well be misused. So my amendment, and I hope members of this Committee will support it, will mean adding the following subclause after subclause (2) in clause 5: \u201CSection 132A is amended by adding the following subsections: (3) An Order in Council providing for the embedding of microchips in entitlement cards may not be made under this section except on the recommendation of the Minister. (4) The Minister must not recommend the making of an Order in Council referred to in subsection (3) unless, to ensure privacy and personal information are fully protected, adequate consultation concerning the privacy and security of the information to be contained in the microchip has taken place with\u2014(a) the States Services Commission; and (b) the Privacy Commissioner; and (c) any other State agency, department, or organisation the Minister considers relevant.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a4a99a7-292a-4829-ade5-e825f9be4940\u0022\u003EI hope that amendment will give some reassurance to senior citizens. That wording has been agreed to by the Rt Hon Winston Peters as a way of ensuring that we promote the benefits that this gold card offers to senior citizens, but makes it clear that their privacy and personal information will be protected, and that the relevant State agencies will endeavour to draft the appropriate protection in the advent of microchipping being implemented. With those comments I just want to congratulate New Zealand First on the initiative it put forward as part of the coalition talks, and I know that most senior citizens will benefit from this initiative. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022af342e02ea124e19b970d5c64feb4e25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af342e02ea124e19b970d5c64feb4e25\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E There are two ways of going about things in the House of Representatives. One is to deliberately misunderstand and misrepresent proposals, to scaremonger up and down the country, then to vote against them. That has been the National-ACT position in relation to this legislation. There is another way of doing it, and that is to recognise that there are some genuine concerns about proposals that the House is considering, to look at them, and to see whether they can be fixed. That is exactly what Taito Phillip Field is alluding to in his amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EHe said that he supports the SuperGold card initiative proposed by New Zealand First and supported by the Labour-Progressive Government as part of our confidence and supply agreement, and that he wants it progressed, but that some people have concerns about future-proofing access to information in a microchip. People are worried about new technology; in particular, people who have not read the legislation are worried about the new technology. So, to make it beyond doubt, Taito Phillip Field\u2019s amendment proposes what was basically outlined in the original Cabinet paper submitted by the Rt Hon Winston Peters. As recently referred to by Phillip Field, I think that was a sensible way of putting in the law measures to address the concerns that have been raised about people\u2019s privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut I say that those concerns have been misunderstand and misrepresented for political point-scoring only, and the senior citizens of New Zealand will know that is the case, because the legislation makes it very clear what information can be stored. It does not allow anything in addition to what can already be stored on a magnetic strip. Let me outline to the Committee exactly what can be stored.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EFirst is the cardholder\u2019s name. Well, I do not think there is a lot of risk of that being lost or identified by someone else. If a photograph is included\u2014which is voluntary, as the Rt Hon Winston Peters outlined\u2014that provides additional security. The strip can include an identifying number assigned by the department to the cardholder\u2014the superannuation number. It can have a number or code indicating the cardholder\u2019s class of eligibility for the card. That does not seem a big threat. It can have an identifying number assigned to the card, and\u2014wait for it, this could be the real threat to a person\u2019s security and privacy\u2014the commencement and expiry dates of the card, and a code number for mailing purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIf members read section 132A(2) of the Social Security Act, they would see in the law that that is the limit of the information that can be stored without any further legislative amendment. There is no issue about breach of privacy. The legislation ensures that as future opportunities for discounts and concessions for senior citizens become available, and become available only through use of a microchip, we do not have to spend hours of time in this Parliament using up legislative opportunity to do something that the law already allows us to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis concern is just political point-scoring by National and ACT, to the detriment of over 550,000 New Zealanders who are interested in seeing the outcome of this legislation, rather than being scared by misunderstanding and misrepresentation. I think the progress of this bill through the House will be welcome news to all those senior citizens throughout the country. I know that having heard the entire debate, they will understand that their private information is not under threat. The sole intention of this measure is to ensure that as smart technology advances, they are able to access it at the earliest possible opportunity so that more concessions and more discounts can be added to the SuperGold card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI am delighted to be participating in this debate as the Minister for Senior Citizens, and before I conclude this contribution I want to commend the determination of my colleague the Associate Minister for Senior Citizens, the Rt Hon Winston Peters. This measure was one of his key pledges to the electorate prior to the last election. On day one after the confidence and supply agreement it was on our agenda for implementation. A lot of work has gone on, and I acknowledge our officials in that regard, as well as the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022 data-id=\u0022636113c5ca9c4a13a2aa11bf23bd2bac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022636113c5ca9c4a13a2aa11bf23bd2bac\u0022\u003EJUDY TURNER (Deputy Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make a contribution to this part of the debate on this bill regarding the SuperGold card. United Future, along with some of the other parties on the Social Services Committee, did register\u2014and we certainly included a minority view in the commentary on the bill\u2014some concerns around microchipping. But I want to be clear that our concerns about microchipping were not really to do with the microchipping provisions in this bill. In the bill it is very, very clear what information can be stored. It is very mainstream information, and we would have to return to this House to extend those provisions at any stage for any mechanism used to store information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ESo our concern was not sufficient to support the amendment by Heather Roy. However, we did discuss this issue at caucus, and our concern, as I mentioned at question time today, was whether we were progressing this idea of the Government use of microchip technology without having had the wider debate about the kinds of privacy issues that may need to be considered into the future around the use of this technology. The fact that we are including the provisions by stealth, it would seem, was of concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003ESo because we do not feel that there is any need to pull the provisions out at this stage, as they are very limited in respect of what information can be stored, we have written to a series of people. We have written to the Minister of State Services, the Minister of Justice, the Privacy Commissioner, and the Law Commission asking them to take this matter into consideration and to provide some ongoing advice to the House about any of the ethical considerations around Government use of microchip technology into the future. We have asked them to provide this advice so that in future, when bills like this come up in which there is a provision for the use of microchipping, we have some clear guidelines and protocols, and we can proceed with the use of this technology, knowing that we are keeping New Zealanders safe from any use of invasive information that may be to their detriment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003E We have weighed the issue up very sincerely. Unlike the previous speaker, Ruth Dyson, I believe that Heather Roy\u2019s attempt is sincere. I do not believe she is trying to grandstand or do anything in a politicking sense. I think she is genuinely concerned, and we have looked very closely at her concerns. We feel that this bill is safe in its use of microchipping, but we think that it has raised a very important issue. We in the United Future caucus have certainly taken action to contact the bodies that give advice to the Government and to Government departments. Those bodies should have a say and give serious consideration to this, and we have taken action to ask them to do some further work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220d9640b0-d861-43d8-b321-e7ba56dbe362\u0022\u003EI think the amendment in the name of Taito Phillip Field is a good amendment. It goes a long way to addressing our concerns, and we are happy to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00225911c652c2d543d99aa9a94cb87b3a76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225911c652c2d543d99aa9a94cb87b3a76\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E A fundamental question needs to be answered about the SuperGold card. I quote directly from the report of the Social Services Committee. That report has been agreed to by the Government and by all parties. It states: \u201C\u2026 the Government has no plans to incorporate a chip into the SuperGold Card\u201D. Then, when I pick up the New Zealand Herald today, I see that it states this: \u201CNew Zealand First says the cards would not be functional without microchips\u201D. That is contradictory, and I ask the Minister in the chair, right now, to clear things up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI ask Mr Peters whether a microchip is intended to be in the card. The silence is deafening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c099862da8734afc93192423ea5da57b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll answer you. I am speaking shortly; I\u2019ll answer you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fb53b83fc2e4e62b810caddcf19236e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Just a yes or no answer will do. New Zealand First, on the front page of the paper, is reported as saying one thing, and the select committee is saying another. Before we can have an intelligent debate in this Committee, we need to have the answer to that fundamental question. What sort of disrespect is the Minister in the chair showing the Committee when he will not answer a simple question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI will ask the Minister for Senior Citizens, Ruth Dyson. Will the SuperGold card, as the select committee was advised, not incorporate a microchip, or is it the case, as the New Zealand First spokesperson said on the front page of the New Zealand Herald, that the card would not be functional without a microchip? Can Ruth Dyson answer that question? Can any member of the Government answer that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022025806df973b4a2d84c74168ca5d8594\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Will you yield?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022599c0c8413594cf299e97f7d1bc4e8ea\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: For a simple yes or no answer, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022093762546d674dc3b305936139d6f963\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The member will not be yielding for a simple yes or no answer. The member has made a statement that we are not prepared to debate this issue, and I am happy to take up the rest of the member\u2019s time. Sadly, it is the case that the member has forfeited his right to speak in this debate\u2014not in this debate, but for the next 5 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f426dd7246734f9b8a1131f0b4306eb4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I sought the answer to a very important question; it is the most contentious question in this bill. We have contradictory reports from the select committee and from the New Zealand First spokesperson as reported in the New Zealand Herald. Now, the Minister in the chair sought for me to yield. I was very specific. I said I was happy to yield for a yes or no answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e88777054a4f11a6db6290b8d30c3b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: True.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d5f66ead5f843149572ad433d3d0b7c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: He then, in a smart alec way, said he was going to use all my time. I do not think that is appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f1da43fbb7e4f59b35b5085e931d823\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: No; no comments sideways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb5a2778ac4b406e81a0dfdd9d2dbbb9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by my decision to yield in order to allow the Minister to simply clarify that point, but that is all I am prepared to yield for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7466528204442eaa9e052c9e8563d5f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: In reply to that point of order, let me say that the member is not afforded the liberty, in a debate, of saying to another member that he or she is confined to one sentence in reply. If the member yields, then he yields the time that the other member reasonably takes to answer the question. That precedent has been set in other Parliaments, and we still have it ourselves. If the member looks at the Hansard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df49ee1e37e4be28a5239fab5705178\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Just give us an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f962137f2ce044ffb09f6011f09bb1fa\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The member does not like it when he is shown to be inexperienced in this House, although he has been here a long time. He arrived in 1990. I know that, because I campaigned for him\u2014I do not know why, in hindsight. But he arrived here 17 long years ago. So my point is that having been given the right after a yield request, I now want to speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1feeefa33f4459e90ebfe88e6ccfab3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: This matter has been correctly raised as a point of order. It concerns a matter of procedure. [Interruption] I will just take a few more words from Dr Smith on the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbbeae15c64b4171ba7d6dc779ba1ef7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I was very clear. The condition on which I yielded to the Rt Hon Winston Peters was that it was for a simple yes or no answer on the question of which report the Committee could reply upon in terms of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4b3b827a85f425884a6ab02f8db304b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I am very clear on that. We have gone past that point now, and the member has about 2 minutes left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1a5bc66d9343918c301051dc211c1c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister in the chair cannot give a straight answer to save his life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acabfbbe921947eea5b60fb0e7e8ef61\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I asked for him to yield. He said he would. Now, he having yielded, I want my chance to avail myself of the opportunity he has afforded me to give him a reply. But there is no way a member can ask four questions and get one answer to all four\u2014unless, of course, the member is Nick Smith and thinks like him. So I need a bit more time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe64166817294e0998c8bb6956a5bb8d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Time is not in question here. It is just a matter of whom I give the call to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e32b7e2210d43edb0a2d6f40a97a393\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Speakers\u2019 ruling 55/1 states: \u201CWhen a member yields to another, the member given the floor may refer only to the matter raised by the member yielding.\u201D I believe that my colleague Dr Nick Smith is absolutely correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377105703dc44bdb9111ac5f2910e237\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Both contributors have gone a fair way outside of that. I can give the call to anyone, as I said before. Time is not an issue. The Minister in the chair may speak call after call after call in Committee, and it is the same for Dr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220737728835ef42adb1ac16f7c922dd8a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The issue is very simple. I was on the select committee and received the advice of the officials. They told us two important things about this bill. They said the SuperGold card did not need to incorporate a microchip in order for it to be launched. They went even further than that; they said it was their view that not even within the next few years would it require a microchip. So why, in a rush, is Parliament expected to give approval for microchip technology for the SuperGold card, when it is not needed to launch it and is not needed in future, but it is just the case that at some time in the future the officials might want to incorporate it? I have a very simple answer. At the time in the future when they want to, they should come to this Parliament and put their case, and we will consider it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe most important thing is this: did Mr Peters tell superannuitants at the 2005 election that the card would have a microchip? No. Did the Government, when it introduced the bill, say the card would include a microchip? No. Will Mr Field\u2019s amendments give the 540,000 superannuitants the opportunity to have a say on whether they want a microchip to be put in the card? Again, the answer is no\u2014it will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo I simply say to the Minister that we do not need to have this sort of bad process. If the ministry wants to introduce a microchip at some time in the future, then it should come to this Parliament with a bill and set out the reasons for it. This Parliament can then make a proper, considered decision as to whether it is a good or a bad thing. We will not then have legislation by stealth, in which, in a rush to get the SuperGold card up and running, we include a sneaky little clause to allow for a microchip when it is not needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a899f580883b4b7db8a3b533026666c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a899f580883b4b7db8a3b533026666c8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Associate Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E It is very disappointing when someone comes to this Parliament as a very young member, thereby inheriting the nickname \u201CYoung Nick\u201D, and 7 years later, first, demonstrates an inability to understand changes in the modern economy, and, second, carries on an infuriating practice of doing no research, getting most of his parliamentary responses wrong, and behaving in a way that makes one wonder how he will get past the 2008 selection process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a17eb9185d23492db0920c486576fa87\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Just answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bb5dafedbfb4f1bb97d42e7fb9d2edc\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The answers have already been given. Will the microchip be required in respect of the golden age card? The answer has been advised to the member and everyone else: no, the microchip will not be required on day one. [Interruption] See, there he is. The member is shouting out again and not waiting for the full answer. He did not raise the issue to get a full answer; he got up on his feet in just a vain attempt to maintain his position on the front bench. His being there is inexplicable to anyone who knows anything about how the National Party used to be. How he got there is beyond me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI tell members that on day one the microchip will not be required. As we have said, the microchip will be needed only if seniors are to avail themselves of many of the benefits in the modern economy that are available only through microchip technology. The banks are already moving in that direction. Some will be there by the end of 2007. Banking is a major service industry. It is a major component in our economy. If the banks are going there, then maybe we should be forward-thinking and visionary enough to provision elderly people to be there with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EFor members to get up in this Chamber and start shouting about some sort of heinous, Gestapo-like practice or Nazi-type behaviour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224459bf45a2244c8b9595f2a5eb0bf068\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: He didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4da9521ae843068b79ae7eeac2e25d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That is what those members are saying on the stump\u2014make no bones about it. Some members are even saying that the microchip will be embedded in the people themselves. Those members know full well that that is not true. There is a word for that; it starts with \u201Ch\u201D. There is another explanation for it; that word starts with \u201Cl\u201D. A bunch of mendacious sybarites is what I am talking about. The National members do not understand what that phrase means, so they will not raise an objection to it. All these bright people in the National Party do not know what a mendacious sybarite is. That is why I can say it with no chance of anyone getting up and making a complaint. My colleague the ably qualified lawyer from the Hawke\u2019s Bay understands what it means, but most of those members, like Judith Collins, do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a745c16d8f843be849e7fa78dbd99bc\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I ask the member to translate his comment into one of our official languages\u2014either M\u0101ori or English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c48ef29302f46458f43a5dadfd77727\u0022\u003EAnne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Or New Zealand Sign Language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c9ac41db2cf45d29bd4efb50b8b9742\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Or New Zealand Sign Language, sorry!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e46de295adee4d7bb8ee09fa1657157b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The word \u201Cmendacious\u201D is actually English. It is derived from a Latin phrase\u2014as is the other word. I am astonished that anyone who had any legal training at all would not know what either word meant. But together they mean that member and her colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9641e78af4445c0983357856e2b35f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9641e78af4445c0983357856e2b35f4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E In contradiction to what Mr Peters has said, I seek leave to table the statement: \u201C\u2026 New Zealand First says the cards would not be functional without microchips \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ea523bd0dc449278bfdf6a70469d9f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019ll find out at question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f469393162794a4f8da6fa0ecf5b4861\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That is what New Zealand First said, I say to Mr Peters. I seek leave to table that statement for the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d56fa8c45a446a5885ac8202b6a3fe8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course to be followed. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00224fcddd5503004b3eaaba5c66d38f571f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fcddd5503004b3eaaba5c66d38f571f\u0022\u003EBARBARA STEWART (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to contribute to this debate on behalf of New Zealand First. I am absolutely astonished and very sad that such an atmosphere of misinformation and fear has been created around the use of a simple super-gold card for 540,000 senior citizens here in New Zealand. The card is something that Australian senior citizens already use on a daily basis, and it is not too difficult to implement over here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe doom and gloom that we are hearing in this Chamber is absolutely incredible. Logically, one should step back and ask why the Government would invest millions of dollars in microchips in order to spy on what our elderly are doing. The answer is that it definitely would not. This is total misinformation. It is scaremongering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ETo say that personal information will be accessed is wrong. It is set out quite clearly in the legislation what will be on the magnetic strip. The information will be exactly the same as what would be on any microchip. We have a list here: the cardholder\u2019s name, an identifying number assigned by the department, a number or code indicating the cardholder\u2019s class of eligibility for the card, an identifying number assigned to the card, the commencement and expiry dates of the card, and a code number. The strips that are already on other cards that people have contain much the same information as will ever be contained in a microchip when that technology becomes available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIn relation to the argument that the card will track the user\u2019s activities, we have to accept that really whenever we use a card\u2014whether a bankcard, a card for an ATM machine that takes our photo, a petrol card, or a Fly Buys card, which I would say many of us here have in our possession\u2014we do not think anything of it. They are all cards we have at home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe will not ever return to the good old days when we never had cards. The fact that we have a photo on our driver\u2019s licence is something that years ago people regarded with total astonishment. We thought people would steal our identities, steal our signatures, if they were on cards. But has that happened? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003ESo really we are hearing a lot of misinformation. We have a microchip on our ID cards here at Parliament that tracks exactly where we have been\u2014which doors we have opened, and which areas of the House we have walked through. As we have heard today, next year banks are changing their technology. Guess what? Because banks are changing, retailers have to change, too. If we want to use our cards, they will have to be updated to be part of the new technology. And, as was pointed out today in question time, the cards for seniors will not initially be issued with a microchip. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EThe concerns that we have heard here today are interesting, and I think they should be part of a wider debate, perhaps, on the use of microchip technology. But I believe that our senior citizens can be assured that the cards will not be used for purposes they are not supposed to be used for. The concerns we have heard show total misunderstanding; they are examples of political point-scoring. The information, as we have said before, is clearly set out in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EIt is a shame that now that the SuperGold card is becoming a reality for our senior citizens and our veterans, all of these hassles have been brought to the fore. We know that seniors are eagerly awaiting this particular card. We often heard criticism in the earlier part of the debate from those on the other side of the Chamber that they did not know the details of what is actually on the SuperGold cards. So be it! We have all heard that details will be released\u2014and we know they will be\u2014when the card is launched. That is the usual practice for any card to be launched. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220daaf9fb-1a1f-4d31-848a-fd13cb1a2c5a\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand First believe that it is very sad to play politics with this initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd06386eb90945f4bbb84500dffdb451\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd06386eb90945f4bbb84500dffdb451\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make it perfectly clear from the beginning that National will, indeed, support everything possible to ensure that our senior citizens get access to all the entitlements that they can, from the discounts available to them. But I take the point that my colleague Nick Smith made earlier on\u2014that the majority of the Social Services Committee members made a recommendation. They first of all said: \u201CWe received a submission that raised concerns about the use of microchips in the entitlement cards on such a large scale, and recommended a review of the principles governing the use of such technology.\u201D That is not a difficult thing to achieve, but the committee went further: \u201CWhile the amendment would allow entitlement cards to be issued with embedded microchips, the Government has no plans to incorporate a chip into the SuperGold Card, or entitlement cards generally, at present.\u201D Whether the intervening time has been too much of a rush for New Zealand First, I do not know, but it was indeed quite extraordinary to read in the New Zealand Herald this morning the point from New Zealand First that the cards will not be functional without microchips, which could be in use as early as next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI think there is an absolutely correct concern by a variety of responsible people as to taihoa-ing\u2014taking caution\u2014with the use of microchips. First of all, there is the New Zealand Law Society, the view of which I understand the Rt Hon Winston Peters has in some respects rejected. But then we can go to Marie Shroff, the Privacy Commissioner, who said she was not opposed to smart-card technology but more debate was needed\u2014which I think is very reasonable. In fact, she went on and made the statement that there is the potential for functional creep, where the card ends up being used for far more than what was originally intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ETo balance that view, we heard from Keith Locke, who was talking about the nightmare of the photograph, when he went through the USA. Indeed, his photograph could indeed be a nightmare to a lot of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e21df9dd449480595901043feeae918\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, not kind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222249ee4530144c7ab063740d1b6125af\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CNot kind\u201D, the member says? But, look, I tell members that the soothsayers and scaremongers, and the disaster predictors from the Green Party, revel in this sort of thing, and they conjure up all sorts of things that are quite unrealistic. I think that a balance is required\u2014the balance required and suggested by the Law Society, by Marie Shroff, and indeed by Grey Power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI cannot understand why New Zealand First is wanting to stampede into this, when Grey Power is saying that microchips are potentially an invasion of privacy and could track user activities. That may be a colourful description of what can happen, but there is no doubt that the sensible thing is to have thorough debate on the issue of microchips. Technology\u2014globally and in New Zealand\u2014is rapidly changing, and we have a functional card that can be made available to superannuitants right now. They can take advantage of the discounts that the Rt Hon Winston Peters says are available. We have yet to see exactly their reality; he says they are commercially sensitive. But we hope that the expectations will be lived up to, and that the Rt Hon Winston Peters has done some very solid groundwork to make sure that the commercial arrangements and advantages that stem from these cards will bring real benefits to our seniors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI understand that Heather Roy is bringing in another amendment, to ensure that part of a proposed amendment to clause 5(2) will be deleted, thus meaning there will be an opportunity for a proper debate to take place on the way in which new technologies can be used in New Zealand. I think that is absolutely sensible; I believe that National will be supporting such an amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI go back to say that yes, indeed, we support the original intent of this bill. We are looking forward to seeing the arrangements that the Rt Hon Winston Peters has worked so hard and diligently on to ensure that the seniors of our country will have real benefits from discounts. He might be able to give us just a little bit of an idea of what those arrangements might be, without giving away the commercial sensitivities that he talked about in question time this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u00222fae1329cba04622ad84004f5fea4bdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fae1329cba04622ad84004f5fea4bdc\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is important to remember, when we debate this Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill in Committee, what will be achieved. First of all, convenience will be achieved. The proposed SuperGold card is nothing but an item of convenience for our older citizens. The Opposition members, of course, would oppose that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a832afd43b642419b2ddd67437f3b6b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019re not opposing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227693267f7f2044979a2f3ea33779bd15\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: They do not oppose a card of convenience? Well, if they accept a card of convenience, then they must accept all that follows from this bill, because this bill changes absolutely nothing once we accept the convenience aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe bill brings in the power to include on a microchip that which is already included on a barcode under section 132A of the Social Security Act 1964. As outlined in a speech earlier on by the Minister for Senior Citizens, Ruth Dyson, the information on the microchip will include the cardholder\u2019s name. That is not a breach of privacy, because the cardholder\u2019s name is on the card anyway. So members cannot toss the word \u201Cprivacy\u201D around in the hope of creating fear, suspicion, and concern in those considering attaining a card of convenience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe microchip must contain an identifying number, which will be assigned to the cardholder by the Ministry of Social Development. Again, that is not a breach of privacy, because each identifying number is between the ministry and the particular cardholder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe microchip will have a number or code indicating the cardholder\u2019s class of eligibility for the card. The number or code is there so that the class of benefit the cardholder can access is identifiable immediately. That is not a breach of privacy; again, it is a matter of convenience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe microchip can include an identifying number that is assigned to the card. What privacy breach arises from this? One has a card and it has a number. One has a number and it has a card. There is no privacy breach there, whatsoever. It is a matter of convenience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe commencement and expiry dates of the card are also on the microchip. A card starts, and it may end; it may because it has started. It is a convenience, not a breach of privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThere is also a code number on the microchip for mailing purposes. Well, we all have mailing addresses, and no one suggests that they are a breach of privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI take up what the Associate Minister for Senior Citizens said about the \u201Cmendacious sibilations\u201D coming from the other side of the Chamber in respect of this matter. I am pleased to note that the term has obviously been accepted by the opponents to this bill. The Associate Minister quite fairly put it on the table for them to debate, and they have accepted, without dispute, their mendacity in this matter. They have accepted, without dispute, that their actions in opposing this bill are \u201Csibilantic\u201D. They have accepted, without dispute, that the voodoo politics, which the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d2c19de6802405688f7cbdfc3372fdf\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We did not actually accept it. We just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a80c55e8711749ad8850cdd51deb245b\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: The member did not understand the statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a016bd0ebd4dada73dd93bf0bd511b\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, some of us actually did our law degrees when they were taught in English rather than in Latin, because we are a bit younger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e291d822c1b14464b3fd6818139d1f38\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225358fc4e800f4d7c8937b452cc5254db\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: She still doesn\u2019t know!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022630aaeb5ef5c49bbad4216d3e2ee8376\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps if the member had studied some Latin, she would have learnt some of the important terms used in this House, and she would have appreciated the absolute precision with which the Associate Minister used the term \u201Cmendacious sibilance\u201D, because it is a very accurate description of the voodoo politics we are hearing from the Opposition members this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EThe Opposition members see that we have a group of senior citizens, aged 65-plus, who are not familiar with some of the modern technology, so they throw in phrases such as \u201Cbreach of privacy\u201D and \u201Cundermining your security\u201D, and make the people for whom this card is designed, as a matter of convenience, nervous about it and concerned about whether they should have it. That is one of the definitions of \u201Cmendacious sibilant\u201D behaviour, as advanced by the Associate Minister. What the Opposition members are saying is not true. It is spoken out of the side of their mouths, and it is said with a degree of contempt for those to whom it is addressed. In accepting the currency of that term in this debate, the Opposition members have themselves defined their approach to the debate. The Associate Minister was able to sum up in two succinct words\u2014quite accurately, on this occasion\u2014exactly what the opposition to this bill is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u2019s amendment will be put to the Committee, and if she is true to her neo-liberal policies, she will seek to amend this bill to make the card a platinum card. She will not want to have all senior citizens accessing, with convenience, the discounts that are to be offered by her neo-liberal friends in the Business Roundtable. The elitism of the neo-liberals, as typified by the ACT Party, is that not everybody should have equal access to all matters. No, the true\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a99492ddb29c40fa87bda5d404b17303\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a99492ddb29c40fa87bda5d404b17303\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to talk about the amendments that I have before the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI have indicated to the Clerk that I will withdraw Supplementary Order Paper 110. When we came to vote on it, it would have been ruled out of order. The Minister Winston Peters\u2019 amendment would have come first, and as a result mine would have been ruled out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI have submitted a separate amendment, which is an amendment to the Minister\u2019s amendment on Supplementary Order Paper 111 to clause 5. It omits from the proposed substituted section 132A(2) the wording \u201Cor a microchip embedded in them,\u201D. The effect will be exactly the same, but the process will be somewhat different, and my amendment to the Minister\u2019s amendment will be voted on first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI also have a second amendment that I want to put forward in case at the end of this debate we are left with microchips\u2014a terrible thought, I know. Should that be the case, I want to put some safeguards around the use of microchips, particularly in light of the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s comments to me yesterday about the use of microchips. The amendment adds subclause (3) to clause 5 and reads: \u201CAny highly functional technology (including microchipping technology) used for the purpose of human identity verification under subsection (2) must comply with approved international privacy guidelines.\u201D I think it is very, very important that this happens and is followed, so that proper process is gone through and we end up with the right sort of microchip not only in this card but in any card that might be established under the Social Security Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI would like to address a couple of points made by previous speakers. Judy Turner said that this issue was very safe in light of this particular card. That may well be the case. The advice we received from the officials was that there were not very many concerns about, perhaps, this bill. But my point is that this amendment is not just about the SuperGold card; it is an amendment to the Social Security Act, and it will mean that microchips can be added to other cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217270ce2b9f042638c686b3ecc8aa946\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, where\u2019s the amendment for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd5228ba4d8c428795a45c2c94986b1c\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peters might like to shout from his chair, but if he likes to take a call of his own, then he can give the Committee his point of view. In fact, he is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt is very sad, I think, that both United Future and Taito Phillip Field have decided not to support my amendment. Those members have spoken very strongly against the use of microchips and have the same concerns that I have about them. What we are seeing in this Committee, sadly, is that support for Mr Peters is more important to them than the importance of privacy issues to our senior citizens. It is a sad day in this Chamber when their concerns are ignored. Those senior citizens include veterans who have fought for the freedoms we enjoy today; it is sad that their privacy can so easily be taken from them. If microchips with no type, no specification of type, and no specification of function can be inserted into law and passed through this House, it is a very sad day indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe reason I have put my amendment forward is not, as others on the other side of the Committee have suggested, voodoo politics and the like; it is because I care about the privacy of our senior citizens. I worry that what Marie Shroff, the Privacy Commissioner, has said might happen, and let me quote from an email she sent me yesterday: \u201CThere is the potential with microchips for function creep where the card ends up being used for far more than was originally intended.\u201D It is all very well specifying what is going to be on this microchip but what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a317943e20324d2facc08fa1e4b039e9\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: What about the banks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc19c3a513a24bc1b69cf1f25c8beae1\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Woolerton is quite right; the banks need to be involved in this sort of discussion, too, because function creep can happen with their microchips. We have never properly had a discussion in public about the parameters around what microchips can contain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EFunction creep is where the card ends up being used for far more than was originally intended. Marie Shroff also said that security is a real issue, both for the data stored on the cards and for the risk of identity theft. She spelt it out in black and white\u2014identity theft. She also commented that a possible microchipped SuperGold card has some far-reaching implications that need to be explored thoroughly before a final decision is made. How much clearer could a Privacy Commissioner be about an issue? She wants this issue debated publicly and explored thoroughly, and that has not happened in this debate. She wants those issues addressed before anything happens. SuperGold cards should be something that senior citizens and veterans could look forward to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00224edb51872d64436188f24dd07465fb26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224edb51872d64436188f24dd07465fb26\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Associate Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E I do not think the member Heather Roy should refer to her leader like that\u2014talk about function creep! There are certain rules in this Parliament and there are certain standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe member talked about function creep as though we are not aware that there are two great dangers. Function creep is a danger with any new technology; our job is to set parameters and to always be conscious of it. The other danger is that the technology soon becomes obsolete. Well, that is life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut I suppose that member, who thinks it is right to take 6 months in the army at the taxpayers\u2019 expense\u2014at her age\u2014might have missed what every other member has been working on in her absence. She would not have been brought up to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f3fffb9b36e48ecbc8da1371e017743\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Personal attack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782b6bc3e4874702912e691df1cd1371\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a personal attack. I find it an affront to the taxpayer for someone to desert her role as a member of Parliament for 6 months and think that somehow she is fulfilling her democratic and constitutional responsibilities\u2014in particular, given that her leader was off dancing with the stars at the time and the party was without representation in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203f20051bb00471799b82b7cb978d4ba\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that got to do with the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2382aa38124b719a5a7a4d632e6d41\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: How is that relevant to the bill? Well, if that member had been here when these discussions were going on, she would know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022568e296d290b4c83b10dd9cde5327322\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: She was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279c7eb9e888f4dacb7f4ac0c314eaa0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, she was not. She was off with the army.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to say this: how would the Law Society have known about the issue of the microchip if not for the fact that we brought it to its attention? [Interruption] I know that the member wants to persist with looking in the mirror and talking about function creep, but she should desist and get back to listening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe second thing is how the Privacy Commissioner would be aware of this issue. Well, amongst other things, we spoke to the commissioner and said we wanted to be alongside her office\u2019s consideration of this issue because these are serious issues and we wanted to be certain that, in attempting to ensure that people were brought up to date with the modern requirements of being a consumer and using their consumer power of numbers, we did not somehow introduce any evil that was foreseeable or predictable. That is why the commissioner knew about the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe third thing is that these matters raised today were already part of the Cabinet paper and the Cabinet paper approvals. Although it is OK to raise the issue once, to go on month in and month out, knowing that these matters have been and are the subject of the Cabinet paper that brought this measure about, is purely a waste of Parliament\u2019s time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to say is this: to now talk about other cards being affected by this card\u2019s technology is again drivel, nonsense, and scaremongering. It is scaremongering. It is not the case that other cards will be affected. This card is a stand-alone card.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250578840ec3d47b38463b272e4f96581\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s lost the plot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022938ac091bb77412ca7a5a898d2784df9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Lost the plot? Well, I tell that member that if all she has done in the time she has been in Parliament is talk about mangroves, then she never had a plot in the first place. In fact, when one talks about it that way, one sees that her whole presence has been a conspiracy against her electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI thought Judy Turner handled this matter in a responsible way. I thought Taito Phillip Field handled his concerns in a responsible way. From National, we are seeing the same kind of obstructionist behaviour that it indulged in when we sought to give the retired far better amounts in their retirement. National members shouted from the rooftops that we could not afford it. Then their leader, Don Brash, turned up at the last campaign and said they now agreed. On the question of savings, they obstructed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282770ebf51004d3281f4345a6fd838d0\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Please clarify how the comments being made are relevant to the bill in question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f27d6d017be4a37a701a0f1a72da238\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, can I say the comments are relevant to the bill because I am describing the kind of behaviour I see from certain National members as not being new. I am just talking about it in passing. If National members cannot take it, then they should not come to this House. This is a tough arena here. They should not be so soft and pathetic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ec73e097a664cb78bf2f0becfff0780\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263372b77023747be951075ecb6de84c3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: First, I have to dispose of the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497a75c7888d4fd08ea6f7206a258d7b\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister raised the issue of Cabinet papers. He referred to comments made in Cabinet papers that none of us\u2014certainly, none of us on this side of the Committee\u2014were privy to. I ask him to table those papers in the House so that we can see that they contain the things he says they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274122fbce5544076b33625132f87c44f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231d2bd0864284a599d8218b742954932\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: We have gone on to a second point of order here. The one raised before by Sandra Goudie is disposed of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229627ff19f9084f44b037e27d94aa7552\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the second point of order, which was raised by Heather Roy, can I say there is a thing called the Official Information Act. The rest of us use it from time to time\u2014some more than others. If the member wants to see the papers, then she should leave off the military training and put in an Official Information Act request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe68abaea698440d85309ee834167fd5\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairman, I refer you to Standing Order 368: \u201CWhenever a Minister quotes from a document relating to public affairs a member may, on a point of order, require the Minister to lay the document on the Table.\u201D I believe that the matter should be dealt with in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef4864e806d344b78f88212aa768561a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I say that that Standing Order refers to a Minister quoting from a Cabinet paper. It does not state that a reference to the existence of a Cabinet paper requires one to table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ba09c8d69d6463e89ca273f599692eb\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: You quoted from it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ece14697737a47dbbba2d71d8d181341\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Just humbug! That member is a person with some legal training, I am told. And there is the Whip, sitting in her chair. Neither of them knows the Standing Orders. Their sitting here clearly is a total waste of the taxpayers\u2019 money. After all this time, holding down a seat\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad436023c804b658631152614dcfbf9\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf67d60481e04511a18c5da1c7930d66\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I am speaking to the point of order. Sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c449433a5f04e93acb718e0ac807ce8\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, then get on to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b51b0179d1fb47dbb296f0e4f0bfe813\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down, there\u2019s a good girl. Sit down. Do not be long about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9bbc82110d45be8fecbfdfcefedf1b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: We know the rulings with regard to points of order, so we will not go down that track. I take it that the Minister was not quoting from an official document. Therefore, that disposes of that point of order. Outside of that, it is entirely up to the Minister whether he wants to table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbcfd4d1949a4794bf28e78d711aab17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbcfd4d1949a4794bf28e78d711aab17\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E National is quite clear about the fact that it actually supports the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill\u2014let me make that very clear. However, I am sure that at the first announcement that there would be a super card entitlement bill the Rt Hon Winston Peters went out, celebrated, fell asleep at the wheel, and has not woken up since. Otherwise, he would quite clearly understand the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5be1a39e9e04c99881dde32cc10e289\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairman. That is an outrageous allegation. I tell that member that unless she withdraws and apologises right now, then I will take it much further than that. I will not have somebody get up and talk about me going out for a celebration and falling asleep at the wheel, which is demonstrably false. The member knows that, so she should now withdraw and apologise or take the consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a86ea95bf494b45928d61736692e093\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has taken offence at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cf80b24235648399cbea9e2315b6bd3\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. It can be quite clearly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec6c1029cafb4b0cac2ff1cc18bdcfe7\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairman, I would like to know why it is acceptable for the Minister to make outrageous comments about other members in this Committee, which he has done continually throughout the debate, but it is not acceptable for members to make comments about him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b8200fe2d524f4d85fc0b1ba483e359\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: It is sort of borderline. Of all the personal reflections or comments that are made, certain ones are outlawed. In the case of others, if the member concerned takes exception to them, then we require a withdrawal and apology\u2014that has been done\u2014and we move on. The comments are not acceptable, but I think most members know that if a member who is the target of those comments takes exception to them, then that is the way we deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220a54b58afb74379a59e97ee68760667\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite clear that the Minister has lost the plot. Here is a Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, who thinks that the New Zealand Law Society submission on the bill was rubbish. That was said during the second reading of the bill, I think it was. The Minister could not understand the fact that, as the Law Society pointed out, the bill actually provides regulation-making powers for cardholder photographs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda9c90bddf1447190897a8893fb038b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the microchipping bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224915137c9f444b1a85e4600a4e4501c9\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: We are talking about the SuperGold discount card that is being touted here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EBut I make it very clear that the bill provides for regulation-making powers for cardholder photographs to be on entitlement cards. That is not just the SuperGold card discount card. It includes the SuperGold discount card, but it means any entitlement card. That is why I say to the Committee again that the Rt Hon Winston Peters has lost the plot, because he fails to understand that very, very clear distinction. He also fails to understand that it is also about making regulatory powers for microchips to be embedded in entitlement cards. That means any entitlement card, not just the SuperGold discount card. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWhen will the Minister get that right? And when will the Labour members of the Social Services Committee and the other Labour members who are speaking on this bill get it right? I have not heard one of them get it right, and that is in spite of the New Zealand Law Society making that abundantly simple and clear in its submission to the select committee. National members got it; we understood it. We raised some concerns about microchipping and the issues around photographs during the first reading. That is why that came under discussion at the select committee. It is about time that the Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, got a grasp of what is really happening here, but I do not see that being about to happen in a hurry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdd854a6d4514988a27dd9732287b0be\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Look who\u2019s talking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f0fde04beb34617a86c8020dcfb3f5a\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: This is the Rt Hon Winston Peters. We actually need an interpreter to understand what he says in the Chamber these days. If we look at the New Zealand Law Society submission, we get a very, very clear understanding of what is being said here and what is intended in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EYes, we support the SuperGold discount entitlement card. It is a good initiative, and everybody applauds what we can do for our senior citizens in regard to that. That is great. But, while we are at it, our concern is about the regulation-making provision. Again, for the benefit of the Rt Hon Winston Peters, who fails to grasp the fundamentals of what the New Zealand Law Society is saying, I say the bill\u2014clause 4\u2014does change the purpose of the Social Security Act 1964, and it changes it for all entitlement cards. It has nothing to do with the SuperGold card per se. This issue is about all entitlement cards. I have gone to great pains to make that abundantly clear. How could it be made plainer than that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI challenge the Minister in the chair, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, to take a call and perhaps say he does understand the New Zealand Law Society submission after all. But I would not hold my breath on that one. I think we would just hear another line of verbal wordage\u2014whatever one wants to call it\u2014which nobody really understands these days. It is a crying shame that there has been a loss of the plot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022 data-id=\u0022717dd0352d05476696fb36d77d789499\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c45684c6-7137-45b3-b30c-46206236e88b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022717dd0352d05476696fb36d77d789499\u0022\u003ELESLEY SOPER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2c31cdd63e34ee0a72235c6acad3ebd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2c31cdd63e34ee0a72235c6acad3ebd\u0022\u003EPETER BROWN (Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I draw your attention to the fact that apart from the Minister in the chair, who is the leader of New Zealand First, there has been only one call from New Zealand First on this part. As you can see, Mr Chairperson, it is quite a controversial issue, and I seek the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebf2ff7bb6074e818081d88348c05d98\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: It says here that it is a Government bill. It has nothing to do with New Zealand First per se. But I take the member\u2019s point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e3dc3d88-a571-4ed7-a4b4-b66dedd6134b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dd9b46d8809428489cda04b7cb18b3b\u0022\u003EPeter Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I am just saying that we\u2019ve had only one call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244eb0b2cfb464571a4f1ec274958d66b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I take the member\u2019s point. The motion was that the question be now put. I am of a mind to put the question, because this is a very small part. There is another part, and clauses 1 and 2 are yet to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c0184442383429ab2c65f4f6fc1ae7c\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I just want to bring your attention to the fact that the Minister in the chair and the member from New Zealand First are doing hand signals to each other. I am just wondering what that is all about. Is some sort of secret deal going on here? You said that it was a Government bill, not a New Zealand First bill. What is the deal with the hand signals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217ef0707b27141c4acfa429f97cb28bf\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for raising that. As the member has gone down that track, and there was the issue raised by Mr Brown from New Zealand First\u2014and what the member is saying runs counter to that\u2014I see my way clear to accepting the motion, which I will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227b3c32577c9a48928bb8e0d88491ee74\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000481\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Taito Phillip Field to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000482\u0022\u003ETo add the following subclause after subclause (2):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000483\u0022\u003ESection 132A is amended by adding the following subsections:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000484\u0022\u003E(3) An Order in Council providing for the embedding of microchips in entitlement cards may not be made under this section except on the recommendation of the Minister.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000485\u0022\u003E(4)\tThe Minister must not recommend the making of an Order in Council referred to in subsection (3) unless, to ensure privacy and personal information are fully protected, adequate consultation concerning the privacy and security of the information to be contained in the microchip has taken place with\u2014\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000486\u0022\u003E(a)\tthe State Services Commission; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000487\u0022\u003E(b)\tthe Privacy Commissioner; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000488\u0022\u003E(c)\tany other State agency, department, or organisation the Minister considers relevant.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000489\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000490\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Heather Roy to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000491\u0022\u003ETo add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000492\u0022\u003E(3) Section 132A is amended by adding the following subsection:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000493\u0022\u003E\u201C(3) Any highly functional technology (including microchipping technology) used for the purpose of human identity verification under section (2) must comply with approved international privacy guidelines.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fa239ab8f927449998588ac360013667\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew subclause not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000494\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Heather Roy to the proposed amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 111 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to clause 5 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000495\u0022\u003Eto omit from the substituted subclause (2) \u201Cor a microchip embedded in them,\u201D. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002213c273f557374f6f9fba51aa3fefefda\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000496\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 111 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f3fe4335b2b14929aa49f69c0aabfdd4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 61\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 3; Independent: Field; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; ACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002236e3d81981684135a86cfbaf940d12f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 118\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand National 48; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 3; Progressive 1; Independent: Field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fd3c2c7b23e471eba83f913195cbd5d\u0022\u003EPart 2  Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act 1995\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022202c083b14bc4c8582bcc5cc65de8276\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022202c083b14bc4c8582bcc5cc65de8276\u0022\u003EJUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Clevedon):\u003C/span\u003E I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on Part 2 of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. This part deals with the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act and disclosure of that information on microchips embedded in the cards. That is a concern because this same Government has been talking about restricting the right of New Zealand citizens to access births, deaths, and marriages information, yet it wants to keep for itself the right not only to access that information but also to stick it on to a microchip and put that microchip into a card. Why do we have this double standard going on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI heard one of the speakers before from the Government side of the Chamber speak about the information that would be on the microchip\u2014name, address, date of birth, those sorts of things. Most people would think that was quite fine. But how do we know that that is all that is on that card, in that microchip? How do we know? The reason we do not know what is on the card is that we do not all have little microchip scanners or magnetic strip scanners to tell us what is on it. We do not actually know. So when the Government says that the only information on the microchip is what is already on the card, superannuitants can only hope that is true, because they have no way of verifying it. That is a real concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe have asked people whether they have thought about what happens with cards that are already being used, from which information can be downloaded and stolen. The Privacy Commissioner has drawn our attention to that, and she would like to have a proper inquiry and debate on this issue. That is why National members have supported amendments relating to this issue. We do not believe that we should not have microchips and should not have barcodes, but we do believe that when we introduce new technology into very sensitive areas like this, we should have a proper public debate on it. This bill has had a sort of truncated process; it was introduced at the end of November and sent back to the House in March\u2014all for some political grandstanding by the Associate Minister for Senior Citizens. None of it is about making sure that information is safely held.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI do not know whether many people know of people who have used their credit cards overseas, come back home, then all of a sudden found that $10,000 had been whipped off their credit cards. That happened to a friend of mine who was in Italy. She used her credit card in a restaurant, came back, and found that thousands of dollars had been run up on her credit card. There are sophisticated ways of taking information out of magnetic strips and microchips, and that information is then sold to criminal gangs working in Europe and Asia that use it to manufacture new cards. We should be saying to superannuitants that they need to be aware of that. When they hand their cards over, they need to know that those cards are not just cards; they have information on them that is private.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESome of that information, births, deaths, and marriages information, is so private, in fact, that this Government wants to restrict the right of New Zealand citizens to access it, because it does not want it to be used wrongly. Yet here it is putting that information on a card when it does not really need to be there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe other thing we need to think about is that this bill allows births, deaths, and marriages information to be put on a card in relation to a person\u2019s spouse or civil union partner, or former spouse or civil union partner. What about the long-term de facto people who the previous Parliament said were just the same as married people and civil union partners? What about them? I did not vote for that bill, because I knew that it was silly. But this Government, which forced that legislation through, has forgotten about those people whose relationships are not registered. People in long-term de facto relationships will be treated differently from other couples. Has the Minister considered that? I do not think he has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Minister talked about the various people who made submissions about this issue, and he just dismissed them as being wrong, because they did not agree with him. They include people from the New Zealand Law Society, which has a special committee to look at these things. Those people do not sit around all day thinking about their next overseas trip; they are sitting there thinking about very serious legal issues and saying they are issues that should be taken into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002264bd2196643c44238d85c758210a6d6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264bd2196643c44238d85c758210a6d6c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take just a very short call on Part 2. That was an astounding speech from the member Judith Collins. We are now in the realm of fantasy. In her speech she said that because there was a microchip on the pensioner card that will carry valuable information\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224116a9b3f0ce4fcdabe404f1537d9698\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: For whom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab5cc45dc954a328bd4c080b609c950\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014for the pensioner\u2014not only the Mafiosi in New Zealand but Asian crime gangs around the world will be hunting down every pensioner and attending every Grey Power meeting, so they can get pensioners\u2019 cards and seek the information that may be on them about every discount and every bit of preferential treatment that pensioners may get. One can see the Asian crime gangs around the world focusing on New Zealand, and saying they will change their criminal strategy and target every Grey Power meeting in the country! I tell the Rangiora branch of Grey Power in my electorate, if it is listening, to watch out and to call the police, because Judith Collins proposes the stupid idea that somehow to have 21st century technology will expose every good pensioner in the country to every organised crime element from not only within the 12-mile limit of New Zealand but right around the world! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI put it to the members of the Committee, and even to Ms Collins\u2019 colleagues, who were cringing under their desks when listening to that, that she must be scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up with such a ridiculous argument to try to oppose a good policy to back pensioners. Just because Ms Collins is in Opposition, does not have any ideas, and does not have any policy in respect of Part 2, she tries to invent a preposterous proposal like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, I say that this is a serious debate about giving our pensioners a bit of extra help and giving them a card with some technology that will allow flexibility, as is the case with most cards in New Zealand. But what is the best that the Opposition can do? The best proposal it can put forward to try to defeat the logic of this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b63935ee-d78b-43a8-a3bc-996e7951fb9b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc71cc6533e94235b9462b5890b0f397\u0022\u003ER Doug Woolerton\u003C/span\u003E: A space cadet!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aacc9a2fac84a33aa2ebd467c4d752c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. \u201CA space cadet!\u201D, my learned colleague Mr Woolerton says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296019b9aa4fa4ebe8267d494d0b71ec9\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I have put up with a lot of insults this afternoon from these upset people. But to now be called a space cadet by that man\u2014I think he should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a9f10857324a769dd6a27850d7a1f3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I am sure other terms could be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203cdae0cf2a34dda8d841c19f48fde7e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: How about silly twit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef2f528c33fc4da7bd5cfc79bfb68be0\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Peters that I could not possibly comment on that. If the best that the Opposition can do, and if the best that National\u2019s front-bench spokesperson on welfare can come up with, is to say we should not have this bill because the Asian crime gangs and all the gangs of New Zealand will hunt down all pensioners in order to grab their gold cards, then I suggest that she ought to go out the back, have a wee lie down, get on the oxygen bottle, and relax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u002245fe2aec44234ff78bfd01df7f6f40dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245fe2aec44234ff78bfd01df7f6f40dc\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E That is the silliest contribution I have heard for a very long time in this Chamber. We have the Associate Minister for Senior Citizens in the chair, who thinks that this whole debate is a joke, despite the fact that those of us on the Opposition side of the Chamber want to defend the privacy issues raised very sensibly by us. Now we have a very silly contribution from a Minister who is supposed to take some interest in these things, but who clearly misunderstands the whole of Part 2 of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair seems to think the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill is about the SuperGold card. Perhaps he would like to flick to the front page of the bill, which states: \u201CSocial Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill\u201D. He may like to consider for a moment the fact that we are not actually talking about the SuperGold card here. We are actually talking about a raft of cards that exist or may exist in the future, and about putting strict parameters in place so that they cannot be abused and so that the people who are entitled to them receive them and those people who are not entitled to them do not. In fact, if we look at clause 8, we see that its effect is to give the power to the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and Marriages to disclose certain kinds of information to the Chief Executive Officer of the Ministry of Social Development in order to verify a person\u2019s eligibility. I would have thought that that was a very important point, yet all the Minister can do is to make fun of Ms Collins and those of us on the Opposition side who support that. We should not have to put up with that act of silliness in this Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe senior citizens who are listening to this debate today should not have to put up with that level of debate, when we are talking about a card that they have been looking forward to for some time, and that they should rightly be able to look forward to. Instead, they are getting the potential for their private information to be passed on to unauthorised sources. Mr Cosgrove talked about gangs, space cadets, and goodness knows who else. He seems to think it is a joke that people can actually access other people\u2019s information. Perhaps he should live in the real world, because radio frequency identification tags have the ability to pass all sorts of information on. If a tag is sitting in someone\u2019s wallet amongst other cards with magnetic strips, it can be powered up to transmit not only the information embedded in that microchip but also the information on those magnetic strips to all sorts of unauthorised sources that do not have approval to obtain that information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EJudith Collins was quite right to raise the issue of what is in these microchips. We have absolutely no idea about that, because ordinary Kiwis cannot read them. Goodness only knows what information is being passed on. Government members defended the Privacy Commissioner and said she does a good job\u2014and she does; she is very well respected, and I have a great deal of time for her\u2014but today they are sitting here and making fun of her because she has made a point that they want to ignore. She has said we should be very worried about two things: function creep\u2014and I have heard all sorts of ridiculous statements from Russell Fairbrother, who is supposed to know the law, and from Clayton Cosgrove, who is meant to be a Minister who can be taken seriously in this Chamber\u2014and identify theft. That includes identity theft that people do not even know is occurring. That is not right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Minister in charge of the bill should have paid a good deal more attention to the issues when they were raised. He should notify his office about the reality of the situation, instead of having people be told that this card cannot be produced without a microchip. That is clearly wrong and was not the information that the officials gave to the Social Services Committee. Superannuitants in this country have been misinformed on this bill. They have not been told about some of the realities regarding the privacy issues raised by this bill. They should be able to look forward to receiving the SuperGold card in the mailbox. Instead of that, it might already have been read and their details on the card distributed before they even open the envelope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b69066a9b9884238aa0e1f011c499fe3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b69066a9b9884238aa0e1f011c499fe3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Associate Minister for Senior Citizens):\u003C/span\u003E The Privacy Commissioner is not being made fun of. The Privacy Commissioner has been consulted, and has raised in today\u2019s paper the issue of function creep. Well, that is a warning that we would always be apprised of, no matter what technology we were dealing with, and we are not ignoring it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe second thing I want to say is that it concerns me to see repeated in 2007 the kind of tribalistic behaviour that says that if a photograph is taken of someone, it somehow leeches something from that person\u2019s soul, or spirit, or mana, or physical being, and therefore should be resisted on any and every occasion. One does not expect MPs in 2007 to be repeating that sort of primitive, tribalistic mantra, but they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe third thing I want to say is that if Sandra Goudie wants to quote the New Zealand Law Society, let me say this: we wrote to the New Zealand Law Society that, with regard to some of its submissions, we believed that it was wrong, and gave the reasons why. You know what? We are still waiting for a reply from the Law Society. It is not always right. I can give examples of occasions when it has been wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EMs Collins rises to her feet and asks how we know that that is all the births, deaths, and marriages register information on this card. The answer to that question is pretty obvious: because the law will specify it. It does now, and it will under this legislation. She then went on to talk about her friend who went abroad and lost thousands of dollars in a case of credit card fraud. Let me tell her that that is not related to this legislation at all. But let me also give some sound advice to her friend: when people go abroad, they should never let their credit cards out of their sight. That applies in this country too, sometimes. That is wise advice I give to her friend\u2014and to her, too, because she has demonstrated some appalling naivety in this Chamber today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EShe raised the question of partners who are not spouses. For goodness\u2019 sake, the National Party should make up its mind. Everything I heard from the National Party in the past was about the law covering partners who may not be spouses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227025cbd3dff74fec9dbc681416525e0a\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no registration of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e106211eb12408b9d5b198a5e42b5a9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, she says there is no registration of them. We know there is no register of births, deaths, and marriages that covers partners\u2014because they are not married! But do we stop there because we see that small hill, or do we use some experience, in consultation with others, and realise how we can get past this problem? I can understand, though, why that member would be so full of conspiracy theories. If one began one\u2019s political career by stabbing a fellow party member, a sitting MP, in the back, one would have a propensity for thinking that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202fba64e9acc480ea2ddf41a483f99de\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member needs to come back to the bill, and I ask him to withdraw and apologise for those comments, as I take offence at that language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225676ba08e0a4bf9aabf9a26fd54ab43\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: She cannot just get up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779df97e54c4441eb8a0181fe2dacb53\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you speaking to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210cfea98007c4387b75f2f8f4be10109\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am. She cannot just get up and demand that a member withdraw, when that member has stated a fact. [Interruption] Oh yes, she has. The long-time description of that sort of behaviour, as we have seen it in the past\u2014and Hansard is filled with it over decades and decades\u2014is to stab a colleague in the back. That is what she did. That is why she is a conspiracy theorist. She thinks everybody behaves like her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a99cba1fcba24926882f734f1abb3529\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The member has not withdrawn and apologised. He has simply gone on and made the matter worse. He actually has misled the House, because in fact there was no collegial relationship, as he should have known.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2050115de2c4c38ab9a4cb5b6b05b56\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2014[Interruption] No, I do not need any help, thank you, Mr Cosgrove. I would just like to know at whom the alleged remarks were directed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227e54f1780eb433d90444d1f11b38bb9\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I presume, from what the member has just answered back to me, that he was relating them to me. He was speaking about me at that time. He was talking about Judith Collins; he had said my name just beforehand. His comments have nothing to do with this part of the bill. They are just another attempt at bullying, which that member always does whenever he is in trouble\u2014as he is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9227dc83b2d4f1fa3c2fe7340de0177\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I know, but originally they were, I thought, directed at Sandra Goudie. If they were directed at Sandra Goudie, then it is up to her to object to them, not any other member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad331fdad34d41cc9c4f83f5359cb7cb\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I have no way of thinking that there was any relationship between myself and any of the comments that Winston Peters was making. In fact, it is very hard to understand what he is meaning, but my limited understanding did lead me to believe that he was talking about Judith Collins. That was about the full extent of my interpretation of his particular language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263eeb48e0f60468bace62066079b8100\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairman, I have taken offence and I wish that matter to be dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1d79db8a2184eef9110f5dcd6f3638f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I am dealing with it, Ms Collins. You have taken the member\u2019s remark as a reference to yourself and you have taken offence. If you could withdraw and apologise, please, Mr Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca3d94bffb764713ba30a83b5684a5a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Let me make it very clear that to set a new standard in this House whereby someone\u2019s past history cannot be recited is really a very sad day for this Parliament and a terrible low in our parliamentary behaviour. I am talking about a member who challenged the candidature of a sitting member\u2014namely, Warren Kyd\u2014to get into this Parliament. Now she is offended because I have described what that was. That should not be allowed. I can recite members in this House, John Carter and others, who have had to wear this allegation year in and year out, and along comes this little prissy who does not like it being made about herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4dc539282740f79aec18a96010a5a3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. The first point of order was dealt with; there was a withdrawal and an apology, and that is the end of the matter. The Minister had been making some very valid comments, and he still has time left if he wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022208df6147df64103b71f78d2689c6751\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I take offence at the last comments from Mr Peters. He referred to me in a very derogatory way and called me a name that is not my name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022566c8023c5cc42cb86dfc73ae1a410c3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairman, I referred to her as a little prissy\u2014\u201Cp-r-i-s-s-y\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db59685ef22f4f98905a73f9317fd3f8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: You will have to withdraw that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e938a85ac6b24e408db7425e75e47264\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I withdraw and apologise on that score, and say that Bill English was right\u2014she was promoted way beyond her ability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022809c77dc57234aa1877630aa0f5a70f7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: You may talk about that but not in the context of a withdrawal and an apology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00f5e93f78044ce89e06278df1966cd\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. How can that be a proper withdrawal and apology, when the member just continued with another insult? My understanding of the rules is that he should just withdraw and apologise and that is it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e232bab78d4a441bae061125e6f93eaa\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly what I said, Judith Collins\u2014that it must not be qualified. If the Minister could make the withdrawal. He may raise that matter at any other time, but if he would make just a straight-out withdrawal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221147d8886347475ea0eeed92a4871df9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise and withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I want to make this point of order by way of an explanation. Bill English was right\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4add58cfc0c41b0bca6aa91db7febfc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e46b8786ab45463fa6cca9a7fd6f3a59\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This is the point of order now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f4dd9732b8a4b019eba348b56cc24c7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you are compounding it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220efe44a728d34b01b14b8054b8eefe53\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8ebf1d220940dab7c5f4a497709ac3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f1e7460e8ff457b8d2f4fa62f12f56b\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e6a7a016084b6494c1817d21893899\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a fresh one, Mr Cosgrove? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ee29e269b444f88bc1041d60325342\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I am not challenging your ruling, but I have two points. Apart from Ms Collins continually attempting to break up a member\u2019s speech, I would ask you to consider this. As far as the term Mr Peters used\u2014to stab someone in the back\u2014is concerned, I do not think there is a ruling in the Standing Orders saying that that language is unparliamentary. I would ask you simply to consider\u2014not to waste time on it now\u2014that it is a long-used term to describe a wide range of political behaviour over many, many years in politics in this country, and I fail to see how somebody could take offence at it. I do not challenge your ruling; I am asking you to consider it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c815ad8fe8444952993310fe1066788d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: That is good. We have dealt with the issue, and I thank members for enabling the Committee to deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5488e1ad40644d1890aab51f3b79a66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5488e1ad40644d1890aab51f3b79a66\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to bring this Committee debate to Part 2 of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. As a refreshing change I think we should start talking about the contents of Part 2. I start that\u2014[Interruption] Members should close their mouths; then I can see who is speaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI will start by referring to the microchip card hanging off the clothing of the member on the other side Judith Collins, when she\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222effb196ce5b4a6eb550e57ca35d23ee\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Where? I have not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc343345a0bc4e59b8ee4cd10707cb3b\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not want her to undress in front of me. She spoke about microchip cards. She has gained access to various parts of this building today with a microchip card. I bet members a dollar for a penny that she does not have a scanner in her office and that she has not checked the accuracy of the information on her microchip card. I bet she does not know who is reading about her movements. I bet she does not know who is reading her bank account. I bet she does not know who should be nervous about her having a microchip card in her possession\u2014particularly with some of the places she goes to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c939ab74739c461190a989c514ebc391\u0022\u003EJudith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022379007ea082145af9d0764e21521669d\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen her at Law Society functions. She is a member who has good cause to be apprehensive about carrying a microchip card on her person. It falls into the area of function creep, as introduced previously by the \u201CACT for Silliness\u201D speaker, Heather Roy. The function creep that that member gets up to just beggars the mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI want to get back to the microchip card that has been found to be so offensive by members of the Opposition. That is an insidious, patronising attitude; they should be ashamed of themselves. They are saying to members of this House, to members of the public, and to everybody out in the street that they are far more responsible than our senior citizens. If the speakers for the National Party can stand up in this Chamber to express concerns about microchipping, then leave this Chamber and gain access to their offices with a microchipped card\u2014not having checked the microchipped card on a scanner\u2014then they are wilfully winding up alarm among our older citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EOf course, our older citizens are entitled to know what Part 2 relates to and I want to get on to that in this speech. But before I do I want members to look at that man stroking his bald head, David Bennett. I bet that that is a detail that is imposed on the microchip hanging off his belt. [Interruption] No, the member\u2019s is not as well polished. There will be a detail about the bald head on the microchip of that member as he makes his way around this building. [Interruption] No, I do not refer to the member or anyone else. There are some very elegantly bald heads in this Chamber and they should be on our cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daae0a79c7e34fd88615d377c6160195\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot be too strong on you, because other members have done exactly what you have done, which is refer to everything except the part we are dealing with. Go back to the bill or we will put the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a3d79702494ab1ade71597385b18d0\u0022\u003ERUSSELL FAIRBROTHER\u003C/span\u003E: I want to speak on Part 2. I go back to the bill we are discussing at its Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EI want to talk specifically about not the word \u201Cprincipally\u201D but the words \u201Cprincipally on the age and residence of a person\u201D, which we find in clause 7 in Part 2. The golden age card is the inspiration of the Associate Minister for Senior Citizens, Winston Peters, who is bringing to our senior citizens the ease and convenience that the National members take for granted and want to deny our senior citizens. Through the phrase \u201Cprincipally on the age and residence\u201D, Winston Peters is bringing to the senior citizens of this country the ability to access their benefits. But, what is more, the Opposition is trying to deny access to the benefits for spouses and partners of senior citizens, because Part 2 extends only to lawful spouses\u2014whether they be spouses or civil union partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a705910-5320-43bf-aa82-027a761519f6\u0022\u003EHere is the rub: homophobia is emerging once again. I see that member for Hamilton East, David Bennett, sitting up when I mention civil unions. His lips start to crack, his tongue comes out, and he licks his lips, because he knows what civil unions are all about. I advise that member to leave his microchip card at home when he visits some of his dearest, closest, and best friends. They will not be on the card, because they are principally not of his age and residence. He pricks up his ears at the words \u201Ccivil unions\u201D, and boy, not only his ears, at this time as I speak about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce3198314ce14a7196364a38e3b1992b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce3198314ce14a7196364a38e3b1992b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. There is a Standing Order and numerous Speakers\u2019 rulings that say that members cannot move to another seat and thereby take advantage of that relocation to interject and shout across the Chamber in the way that someone in this Chamber has. If members want to recognise who that person is, I tell them it is the person who was behaving like a fishwife on market day, shouting from the start of that last speech by my colleague Russell Fairbrother to the end of it. She never stopped. I have not mentioned her name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a86af49908849918fd83b5febc10256\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand your point of order. I do not agree that that person has changed seats for the specific reason of being more effective at interjecting. She did change seats but that was to have a better position from which to make her contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u0022da17a041ef514633aa054ce885d715bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da17a041ef514633aa054ce885d715bc\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is very sad that a very positive initiative such as a golden age card for older New Zealanders, which has overwhelming support in this Committee, is clouded by the use of this wonderful new card to sneak in a new and highly controversial technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EFrankly, I find very disturbing the sneering and trivialising by the Opposition members and by Russell Fairbrother, who is just leaving the Chamber now. I find his trivialising of the concerns around this highly controversial\u2014indeed, some would say Orwellian\u2014technology extremely disturbing. I point out to him that the United States and the European Union have backed off from using this technology, because they think they need to better investigate its safety and privacy implications. If all of Europe and all of America think it is of such concern that they need to have more time to think about it and to think through its implications, why should our Government laugh at, trivialise, and sneer at the serious implications of this technology?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI, frankly, was offended by the trivialising of, and sneering at, our concerns by members of the Government. If there were to be legislation called \u201CIntroduction of Microchipping Bill\u201D, I do not believe that it would get through this House. I believe that there would be huge popular concern out there in the community, and that the Government would not want to have that. So what is it doing? It is sneaking it in through a card that it knows that people want. It is sneaking it in like a Trojan Horse, through the back door through this legislation. I think people are only just beginning to realise that; most people have no idea. Most of the elderly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ed9ad81-05c1-4171-80c6-24fa02cade42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c9d0511973f4e6396f4447cd07a4417\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, we have dealt with Part 1. We are on Part 2, dealing with consequential amendments to the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282403f7fde524789a1e8306ac36f5398\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think people are only just beginning to understand the consequences of having this embedded technology in their cards, when we have not even looked at the principles governing the use of the technology. All we are asking the Minister is why we do not put this on hold while we look at the principles governing the use of this technology, and while we consider the concerns that the Europeans, Americans, and people around the world have about it. Why do we not just do some wide-ranging investigation, rather than, through this bill, sneaking it into legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EOf course, once the technology is in the social security card, it sets a precedent. Then it can be used, and before we know it microchipping technology will have sneaked into New Zealand without any proper consideration of underlying principles, of privacy concerns, and of safety concerns. We are just sneaking it in. I think it is very, very sad that such a positive initiative as the golden age card is being clouded by what I think is a deliberate attempt to sneak microchipping into the legislation. I remember, when we were having the debate around the microchipping of dogs, that I said: \u201CDogs today; humans tomorrow.\u201D Sadly, I was right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022913362e42758472bb1c596a2c59c9b20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022913362e42758472bb1c596a2c59c9b20\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E We can certainly tell the Government is in trouble when its members start to become as shrill as Clayton Cosgrove did in his contribution\u2014not to mention Russell Fairbrother and the Minister in the chair, Winston Peters, who talked about a primitive, tribalistic mantra. I think we heard that from all three of those members. Indeed, it is less than refreshing to hear Government members say they proudly wear their microchips in parliamentary passes and they are absolutely comfortable with that, when clearly they do not know the full implications of exactly what is on those microchips. I would be very interested to know, if the Minister could tell us precisely, the full implications of the microchips that most Government members are wearing today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209774fa5ebf2499ebf7360d701457ee4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2014are you asking now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ad371b98084bbe94d270af93f99eca\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I am not asking now; the Minister can stand up and have a call later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIt is important, in terms of the subsequent arrangements in Part 2, to look at the purpose, which, under clause 7, is to \u201Callow the disclosure of information required to give effect to Part 1 in relation to cards the availability of which is based principally on the age and residence of a person, or of his or her spouse or civil union partner, or former spouse or civil union partner.\u201D Relevant to that is the functional creep that Marie Shroff, the Privacy Commissioner, talked about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIf we look at the information that came to the Social Services Committee back in February, we can see that the key information on the card was outlined. The SuperGold Card was to be a concession card for New Zealand residents who are aged 65 or over, or who otherwise qualify for New Zealand superannuation or for a veterans pension. The card was to be credit card - sized. It was to carry the holder\u2019s name and number, and to state whether the holder received New Zealand superannuation or a veterans pension, or was eligible for community service card entitlements. A photograph for identification purposes was to be optional. Those key facts say absolutely nothing about any transmission devices, microchipping, or anything like that. The information did say that the card would automatically be sent to people who receive New Zealand superannuation or a veterans pension, and other residents aged 65 or over would qualify for the card but would need to apply. That was back in February 2007. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EOne then progresses on to the Social Services Committee report, which indeed shows that functional creep is a reality. There we have the majority, including the Labour Government and New Zealand First, stating: \u201CWe received a submission that raised concerns about the use of microchips in the entitlement cards on such a large scale, and recommended a review of the principles governing the use of such technology.\u201D It seems extraordinary, in the presence of people like Graham Stairmand from Grey Power, and in the presence of advice from Marie Shroff and numerous others, that this Labour - New Zealand First coalition Government just does not listen to them. It wants to rush this bill through. We understand entirely, and we agree entirely, that those over 65 should indeed receive all the entitlements to discounts that are available to them. That is great; we support it. But we think the Government should, for once in its life, display caution in this area, which is very important to people and is encapsulated in the purpose of clause 7. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ESo although we have seen a wonderful display of a primitive, tribalistic mantra coming from the leader of New Zealand First, not to mention from some senior Ministers of the Government, one does have to worry considerably. I think the New Zealand public should be worrying considerably, when we have Grey Power New Zealand saying we should hold on. Surely a microchip will not make one bit of difference to the efficacy of this card. It is much better to make sure that this very, very questionable process, in a field of considerably rapidly changing technology, is looked at carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u0022723ddd2fa9874871ad9b4ac5bbaeed19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022723ddd2fa9874871ad9b4ac5bbaeed19\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E In speaking to Part 2 of the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill, I will actually refer back to some of the other parts of the bill. This bill is a Trojan Horse that is being pushed along by the Rt Hon Winston Peters. Nowhere in this bill is the term \u201CSuperGold card\u201D mentioned\u2014not once. This bill has absolutely nothing to do with the SuperGold card. It is actually all about changing legislation. It is changing the Social Security Act, and, in Part 2, it is changing the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act so that the information on the births, deaths, and marriages of all New Zealanders can be made available to the Ministry of Social Development or any other ministry that is identified in schedule 1A of the Act. If members look at clause 8, they will see this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI tell members that the SuperGold card is not mentioned once in this bill. The bill is actually all about changing legislation. It is changing the Social Security Act to allow for microchipping and photograph regulations on any entitlement card, not just the card for those over 65 but any possible card whatsoever produced by this Government that is an entitlement card that people are required to use to get the sort of discounts or entitlements they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThis bill is a Trojan Horse. It is not about the SuperGold card. It is a Trojan Horse, and it is being pushed by the Rt Hon Winston Peters. It is all about introducing regulation-making powers for having photographs and microchips on any entitlement card provided by the Government. So I say to members once again that this bill needs to be given careful scrutiny. The Minister in charge of this bill, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, has completely failed to show any clarity or understanding about what this bill actually does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe emphasis in this bill is clear if we look at Part 2 in respect of the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act. The Minister might like to take a call and explain his understanding of what Part 2 is about. Part 2 is about making changes to the Births, Deaths, and Marriages Registration Act to allow that information to be provided in accordance with the changes made to the Social Security Act. This bill is about changing two pieces of legislation without any constraint, and without any recourse to members of the public to have consultation over, and an understanding of, this particular bill. People have been so consumed by the fact that this bill is meant to be allowing the SuperGold card that they have not appreciated that it is not about the SuperGold card; it is all about changing two pieces of legislation. This has been completely camouflaged by the SuperGold card issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThis is a Trojan Horse, and not one single member of the current Government has exhibited any understanding of this bill whatsoever, and nor has the Minister, who is pushing this bill through as a Trojan Horse under the guise of the SuperGold card. I challenge members on the Government benches and I challenge the Minister to take a call and tell me exactly which part of this bill specifically relates to the SuperGold card, because I cannot see any part that does. I challenge the Minister to take a call. I challenge any Government member sitting here to take a call. Everything that has been said on this bill in this Chamber tonight by current Government members and the Minister in charge of the bill has not related to any aspect of the bill whatsoever, or taken into account the concerns that have been raised by many other members of the Opposition and of the minor parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWith that, I give the Minister time to clarify his understanding, which, in my view, is clearly limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022 data-id=\u00229e8d1ff293974432ad453727e64f5673\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e8d1ff293974432ad453727e64f5673\u0022\u003EPITA PARAONE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairman. I make no apologies for standing on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill because this debate has arisen from the confidence and supply agreement that New Zealand First has with the Government. I preface my comments by acknowledging Mrs Reene Peach up in Cambridge, Mr and Mrs Jim Stewart in Howick, Barry and Alison Hegley also in Howick, Mona Bloom in Howick, and all those other superannuitants who are waiting for this legislation to be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EOf all the scaremongering that has gone on over this legislation, much of it has been fostered by the Opposition. It should not be missed that the New Zealand Herald has also contributed to the scaremongering with its lead article today. Of course, all that does is to highlight the support that that particular paper gives to a particular party in this House. The contributions that the members on the Opposition side of the Chamber have made to this debate have added to the trivialising that the member from the Green Party alluded to earlier, in her speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003EPart 2 is all about ensuring that the required information that we want on these entitlement cards, including the SuperGold card, is a necessity. I suggest to those on the opposite side of this Chamber that all they need to do is to look at their computers every day. The number of unsolicited messages they get on their PCs is an indication that the information we are talking about protecting is already out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cba965bb-864f-4e06-99dc-6fcdfd007ad5\u0022\u003E I just want to say\u2014because time is going on\u2014that New Zealand First is again proud of its so-called baubles of office. I want to remind those who have been critical of us that Part 2 is an example of the baubles that we have provided for the superannuitants, the elderly, and the senior citizens of our country. They deserve everything that they get. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff9515252cf04dddb8f650fe53c441e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff9515252cf04dddb8f650fe53c441e6\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Social Security (Entitlement Cards) Amendment Bill. The SuperGold card will be a concession discount card for New Zealand residents who are aged 65 years and older. The intention of this card is to provide commercial discounts to cardholders from participating businesses, and to facilitate seniors\u2019 access to concessions on central government and local authority services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe bill amends section 132A of the Social Security Act 1964 to allow regulations to be made for the provision of a photograph on the proposed SuperGold card, and to allow the Ministry of Social Development to obtain information from the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and Marriages to verify applicants\u2019 eligibility for the card. This card will be distributed to approximately 540,000 senior citizens. These citizens then have the option of putting a photo on their card, unlike many other cards. This card will replace all the other cards they have in terms of being a senior citizen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe second purpose of the bill is that microchips can be embedded in the entitlement card. Clause 5(2) amends section 132A(2) of the Social Security Act 1964 to create a new regulation to allow entitlement cards to contain a microchip holding the same information that may currently be stored using a magnetic strip. I wonder how many senior citizens will be happy to know that the Government will record on a database every shop they have been to, every retailer they have been to, and every purchase they have made. Initially the microchips will not be placed in the cards; however, the cards that are issued can be recalled at any time and be replaced at the whim of the Government. Certainly, I do not think the senior citizens will have the choice whether they have a microchipped card; they will just be told. As all their other cards will have been retracted, they will actually have no choice left as to which card they do take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ESubmissions received by the Social Services Committee raised serious concerns about the use of microchips in the entitlement cards on such a large scale. They recommended a review of the principles governing the use of such technology. The Law Society made a submission on the entitlement cards, and stated that the prospect of microchips being embedded in cards issued by the Government raised a more general concern due to the functionality that microchips can possess, including their ability to operate as radio frequency ID cards. The society recommended that the committee call for a general review of the principles governing the use of highly functional technology on Government-issued cards generally, and that the matter be referred to the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. Strong views were voiced in the select committee that a more general inquiry, particularly around the use of microchips, is necessary before legislation allowing microchips is enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ENational does not support the microchipping of cards for senior citizens, and we believe that the senior citizens of New Zealand deserve much better than the SuperGold card in the way it stands, which does not enhance the lives of senior citizens one bit. If senior citizens had known at the beginning what Winston was going to say about the SuperGold card, I am sure he would not have the support he has now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d47b72e0fcde4245aac0b034abcc89b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d47b72e0fcde4245aac0b034abcc89b0\u0022\u003ESHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora n\u014D t\u0101tou. Firstly, Mr Chairperson, I must repeat what I said last night: you were a fantastic representative of that great mix of the Dalmatian and the M\u0101ori on national television. Sitting at your side is a great mix of the Scottish and the M\u0101ori, and both of you actually improved the quality of television for that brief period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESecondly, what a load of misleading nonsense we have heard from the Opposition over their fears that microchipping failure, in terms of the security information, is on its way\u2014as if they have no credit cards, as if they have no access to financial institutions through cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe member for Coromandel drives around in that smoke-belching, greedy, road-hogging machine that she calls her electorate vehicle, running on fish oil, possibly orange roughy. She needs a card. Opposition members say they have no fears about their cards. I tell you what, they may not have had cards, but they had taxi chits the other night on May 3 at Oh\u0101kea air force base. They are no strangers to these instruments. They are no strangers to these devices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo it is absolute nonsense that they should come in and undermine, through their rhetoric, the work of this fine and proud politician from Ng\u0101ti Wai\u2014our very good friend, the leader of Aotearoa Tuatahi\u2014who is looking after the interests of the kaum\u0101tua by ensuring that although this card does not contain the device the Opposition fear, it provides an example of the efficiency\u2014because we search for efficiency in the administration of the State\u2014that is sought so they will not have to come back and listen to Sandra Goudie, or suffer the tired, misshapen rhetoric of Miss Collins. No, they will be saved all of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis legislation enables them to proceed with the card and enjoy all the entitlements and benefits that senior citizens desire\u2014desire and deserve. They will get it only from the current Government. They will never receive it from National. Kia kaha. We wish the bill well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002246cae45b4f1841e59db7e9f6b8750421\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000609\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000610\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 111 in the name of the Rt Hon Winston Peters to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000611\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000612\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000613\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000614\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000615\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.54 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20070510011df94a9d7540739cbfb833de31a5af000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"